00:00:00 ◼ ► Well not the right environment. Other people talking you know what's going on. How's overcast going great. [TS]
00:00:14 ◼ ► Go there to hear more because I know I want to for our show too much too late so I flooded their show instead. [TS]
00:00:23 ◼ ► and I kept saying oh I'll just wait until I reserve a cast that we talk about and I can promote it and whatever [TS]
00:00:29 ◼ ► and I've been putting it off because that was probably back in February that I said that. [TS]
00:00:35 ◼ ► So finally I went and and talked about there for a while with some of the more low level tech stuff [TS]
00:00:43 ◼ ► and social stuff like how do you break into the social crowd a break in the business stuff like that. [TS]
00:00:50 ◼ ► when to post it will say I haven't heard all of your overcast Torah so maybe you talked about this already you don't [TS]
00:00:58 ◼ ► but I think it's no one has asked What are your conversion numbers like if you want to share that I don't even know off [TS]
00:01:10 ◼ ► I don't even know what percentage would be because I just know like dollars and I don't want to share [TS]
00:01:15 ◼ ► but they're going to ask just to be a jerk but anyway you're happy with it it's more or less what you expected. [TS]
00:01:20 ◼ ► Yeah I mean the thing is like it's so early right now that you know because it's all it's only been out now as we [TS]
00:01:29 ◼ ► and so it's still on its launch high you know it's still feature in the App Store I think today was the last day so it [TS]
00:01:36 ◼ ► was featured in the App Store until probably midday today it might be featured somewhere else this week [TS]
00:01:46 ◼ ► and it had all that launch press so I really have no clue what what like the resting point will be like what's that [TS]
00:01:54 ◼ ► what's going to be like the common every day income from it you know it into paper. [TS]
00:02:05 ◼ ► and it was it was always in the same ballpark. It would gradually go down over time. [TS]
00:02:13 ◼ ► But it was it was pretty predictable for the most part and so I don't know what that level will be for overcast yet [TS]
00:02:20 ◼ ► and I won't know until probably like a month or two from now you know what really what that is. [TS]
00:02:27 ◼ ► I can tell you that I've had something like one of the exact time or something like a hundred thousand [TS]
00:02:38 ◼ ► and of those a little more than half have actually made a user account and that's an interesting ratio. [TS]
00:02:44 ◼ ► The problem is again that will be more interesting later like will be more interesting and in a few weeks [TS]
00:02:54 ◼ ► I wasn't sure it like you know because the whole thing about needing to create an account to use it. [TS]
00:03:14 ◼ ► Mostly involving sync to new devices and people forgetting that they have this account and create and duplicate N.T. [TS]
00:03:19 ◼ ► Accounts and that is a support issue and I think a lot of the data. It's a bad scene anyway. [TS]
00:03:26 ◼ ► So you know roughly a little more than half right now have actually created a user account. [TS]
00:03:30 ◼ ► I don't know I'm not doing any analytics yet in the afternoon like how many of those people who didn't make the user [TS]
00:03:37 ◼ ► account have even launched the app yet you know like it could just be people download the app that was featured [TS]
00:03:44 ◼ ► and so on springboard you know it could be many of those it could be people launch the app if you the logon screen it's [TS]
00:03:51 ◼ ► out I want to create an account and then they close the app and never watch it again of the delete it. [TS]
00:04:00 ◼ ► So anyway that's probably something I should put in a Linux in the apps or could know of a decision going forward. [TS]
00:04:05 ◼ ► But right now Matthew Palmer asked an interesting question in the chat have you been paying close enough attention to [TS]
00:04:14 ◼ ► when the peak was the peak of just like server activity in general was a few hours into launch day. [TS]
00:04:22 ◼ ► As far as I can tell the being featured in the App Store does not cause a big spike. [TS]
00:04:28 ◼ ► It causes like a general rise in the whole week because people aren't all checking the App Store at the same time [TS]
00:04:43 ◼ ► But I don't believe I'm not going to really know that again until you know a couple weeks now when I can look back [TS]
00:04:56 ◼ ► but I haven't killed any of them yet because I want to do some experiment stuff doesn't matter. [TS]
00:05:07 ◼ ► I mean I don't want to bore people who already heard me talk about it for about six hours now. [TS]
00:05:11 ◼ ► But I guess if you have any specific questions write it and we'll we'll see if we can answer them but I don't. [TS]
00:05:21 ◼ ► and know nothing except for like Tech Support question a lot of you know Marco on attitude. Fair enough. [TS]
00:05:29 ◼ ► All right so we've heard we've heard something that is possibly follow up possibly not depending on how you classify it [TS]
00:05:39 ◼ ► and it's about the e-mails that Ed Catmull from Pixar had written long ago that were recently revealed. [TS]
00:05:49 ◼ ► Do you want to give us kind of the World Wide Web and I was trying to remember and get a link for the show. [TS]
00:06:09 ◼ ► and they had their emails it was part of a court case that's why we got to see emails from Steve Jobs [TS]
00:06:13 ◼ ► and we were I was incredulous about the Google sending me emails talking amongst themselves. [TS]
00:06:23 ◼ ► and then Steve Jobs says No I'd actually rather you not hire this guy and they don't hire him. [TS]
00:06:31 ◼ ► This story is about a I think the same thing for a courtroom case where that's why we're seeing these internal e-mails [TS]
00:06:45 ◼ ► One of the stakes are over the other one it was a Sony was the one who was not playing by the rules it was poaching [TS]
00:06:57 ◼ ► and the last time we talked about a camel was about his book creativity and which I really liked [TS]
00:07:06 ◼ ► and these e-mails show that he was involved in this wage fixing you know what I call we check some of the best way to [TS]
00:07:19 ◼ ► It's it wasn't quite the action they took but that was definitely the result of the actions they took. Yeah. [TS]
00:07:25 ◼ ► Anyway I think the same thing that the other tech companies were involved in all these companies like the heads of [TS]
00:07:30 ◼ ► these companies are like it's best for all of us involved if we just promise not to poke each other's employees in a [TS]
00:07:41 ◼ ► and we'll pay your money just don't do that to each other because it's just a hassle for all of us to have to worry [TS]
00:07:45 ◼ ► about these people leaving and so on and so forth and it's the exact same situation with Apple and Steve Jobs [TS]
00:07:54 ◼ ► The result is that the marketplace for these people skills is not as competitive as it should be. [TS]
00:08:00 ◼ ► Guys are essentially agreeing not to pay the people what they're worth just to make their lives easier. [TS]
00:08:05 ◼ ► Head to the companies and as much as I admire Ed camel he's doing the exact same thing here [TS]
00:08:14 ◼ ► and takes on his company he just have to think about what is it that makes these people think that this is an [TS]
00:08:19 ◼ ► appropriate thing to do especially a camel makes a point in his book of specifically highlighting instances where he [TS]
00:08:26 ◼ ► did something for the for moral reasons even though you know like not taking advantage of employees not working them to [TS]
00:08:33 ◼ ► death not doing all the strategies that other companies in the tech business do not because it's bad for business not [TS]
00:08:39 ◼ ► because it's immoral because you'd be exploiting your workers exactly is as immoral I don't think like what happens [TS]
00:08:46 ◼ ► what happens to you that you get into a space where you believe you're being you're doing your job well [TS]
00:09:00 ◼ ► But Steve Jobs said you have to this is the way it is things like I mean it's kind of a Masters of the universe thing [TS]
00:09:10 ◼ ► And despite all the things I say in creativity Inc And one of the things that Cavil talks about is it's very difficult [TS]
00:09:15 ◼ ► to know when this is happening to you so the relevant part of creativity is when they're having these meetings [TS]
00:09:23 ◼ ► and they didn't want there to be said he sort of class structure and they were invited everybody these meetings [TS]
00:09:28 ◼ ► and you know we're all talking either they were intentionally trying to make it don't feel like you can't speak up [TS]
00:09:33 ◼ ► because you just got hired a week ago and you know I'm the president of the company everyone's input is important [TS]
00:09:41 ◼ ► when you came in the room they had like a range seating so the important people got the good seats in a place where [TS]
00:09:46 ◼ ► everybody could hear them and other people had to be like sitting on the radiator in the corner [TS]
00:09:51 ◼ ► and they did this for a long time until the executives realized the reason other people aren't jumping is because we [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► We're marginalizing them unconsciously and so they abolish the assigned seating let people sit wherever they want. [TS]
00:10:08 ◼ ► and you know again creativity is all about you're not going to see that that's happening you're going to think you're [TS]
00:10:18 ◼ ► He doesn't seem you know like he's apologizing for this. He doesn't even seem regretful or whatever. [TS]
00:10:28 ◼ ► and I like this kind of churn of employees going from place to place that's bad for everyone's business like we want to [TS]
00:10:36 ◼ ► But it's no good if these employees keep going to better offer from one place to the other if you know that's just [TS]
00:10:42 ◼ ► that's just too much churn and maybe it is inhumane for the people who run these companies. [TS]
00:10:47 ◼ ► But that's not if you're the head of the company it's not your job to dictate the lives [TS]
00:10:51 ◼ ► and job prospects of the people under you. Right. It's not indentured servitude it's an employment at will. [TS]
00:11:06 ◼ ► If you read about I'll agree that fewer people would risk people are people we don't have to pay them what they would [TS]
00:11:13 ◼ ► and I think it's more like you just you just feel like you're doing what's best for the company you're doing your job [TS]
00:11:20 ◼ ► well and you're trying to make your people happy like OK. No one is hurt there and you don't see that. [TS]
00:11:32 ◼ ► and I've seen this in many places to varying degrees you lose touch with the rest of the world. [TS]
00:11:36 ◼ ► You start to think you are different people even in the sort of egalitarian company where they don't like having a [TS]
00:11:41 ◼ ► science eating in meetings but most companies are not like that. Most come in like I am big people your little people. [TS]
00:11:50 ◼ ► I have a personal assistant I have a secretary. I don't get my own schedule. I get to come and go as I please. [TS]
00:12:09 ◼ ► and it's really difficult to fight against that even apparently even if you read Catmull No no analytical engineering [TS]
00:12:15 ◼ ► style brain is apparently enough to completely reverse that although I'm sure there are exceptions I can think probably [TS]
00:12:20 ◼ ► John that would never happen to John Carmack because he has too much energy in this [TS]
00:12:26 ◼ ► and I also mentioned to me a story about John Karr Mike doing something similar and I'll trust him [TS]
00:12:37 ◼ ► when to stand us the money which may not be representative of his lawyer probably advised him just to just stick to the [TS]
00:12:42 ◼ ► facts that you know your heroes our flaws too and they make mistakes and this is a bad move and it makes me sad. [TS]
00:12:52 ◼ ► You know it reminds me of the episode of Top Gear where James and Mary drives you knew I had to go there [TS]
00:13:00 ◼ ► and wear jeans major I can tie everything we want to do you've ever so true it's kind of sad but anyway. [TS]
00:13:07 ◼ ► James drives a coon tosh which is his favorite car when he was you know growing up or whatever [TS]
00:13:13 ◼ ► and he realized that this is fantasy car was not a piece of crap because you can't get into it can't get out of it [TS]
00:13:23 ◼ ► and he said you know we kind of wished he had never driven it in the first place because it ruined it for him [TS]
00:13:29 ◼ ► and I'm not saying that this is a perfect analogy but it reminds me of it nevertheless how I felt [TS]
00:13:35 ◼ ► when I finally played a say to Saturn you know the king of terrible analogies kings [TS]
00:13:40 ◼ ► and terrible announcers I mean like none of that I thought anymore as part of like Steve Jobs is the perfect example [TS]
00:13:47 ◼ ► but there are so many terrible stories about him that no one is ever thinking you see jobs as perfect [TS]
00:13:53 ◼ ► and parcel of the reputation whereas Catmull reputation is just so much like everything that's bad about other high [TS]
00:14:04 ◼ ► and he's the engineer he's able to not fall victim to all of the things he's not a jerk in the way those guys a joke [TS]
00:14:09 ◼ ► he's soft spoken in a thoughtful and he look at his great book he wrote and look at all these talks he gives [TS]
00:14:13 ◼ ► and although this doesn't take away from all that all that is good just as much as this thing is also bad. [TS]
00:14:18 ◼ ► Right and so and you know it just it just goes to show that everyone makes mistakes [TS]
00:14:26 ◼ ► or does he think like well if if we didn't do this it would have been you know years about the rest later that we [TS]
00:14:31 ◼ ► didn't do this it would have been worse for our employees because of reasons X. Y. and Z. [TS]
00:14:34 ◼ ► but and You say well the laws against collusion I don't agree with them I think those laws shouldn't be there [TS]
00:14:42 ◼ ► but I would hope that in any sort of extended conversation a topic you brought around to the notion that is so clear to [TS]
00:14:48 ◼ ► all those of us who are the piano workers that this is a terrible thing to do to anybody to collude with other [TS]
00:14:54 ◼ ► companies to limit the employment opportunities like that's not how you keep your employees by just making sure that [TS]
00:14:59 ◼ ► they don't have other job prospects even if you treat them super well which by all accounts they do [TS]
00:15:05 ◼ ► Doesn't matter you don't get to do that you don't get to say because I'm so important not only will I be here not spent [TS]
00:15:12 ◼ ► but we're sort of making sure that you don't have any better prospects elsewhere despite the fact that if we didn't [TS]
00:15:16 ◼ ► have this deal you know like Sony who wasn't on Israel's like we'll offer you more money will put you in charge of an [TS]
00:15:21 ◼ ► entire movie called our company and you know employees would leave in it like oh we don't want that. [TS]
00:15:26 ◼ ► Well if you don't want that pay those people more make them happier that's called a competitive marketplace. [TS]
00:15:31 ◼ ► It's it's disappointing it's sad it makes me angry that this happens to people because you know not that I'm in the [TS]
00:15:37 ◼ ► digital animation field but if if the similar thing was going on you know and I was looking for a job [TS]
00:15:49 ◼ ► but they had an agreement with my company that they wouldn't vote for me now because I would be too. [TS]
00:15:54 ◼ ► And marketers know what that's like. So tell me about something that's awesome. This week we were sponsored by a. [TS]
00:16:00 ◼ ► Friends once again. Hover hover is in my words to make sure that is actually good. [TS]
00:16:07 ◼ ► There are many do a mega stars that are not good in fact I would say pretty much every other one I've tried [TS]
00:16:13 ◼ ► and I last time I was very certain demands looking to leave the what say the elephant in the room. [TS]
00:16:22 ◼ ► I got suggestions from all sorts of people about whatever you know whatever a show they use basically is where people [TS]
00:16:28 ◼ ► ignore him and like when you ask people for recommendations on anything but they just tell you what they use [TS]
00:16:33 ◼ ► and I tried a lot of them actually and I really didn't like any of them very much and hover was definitely my favorite. [TS]
00:16:42 ◼ ► It was the one that it was not only the only one I really liked but clearly the best in the bunch [TS]
00:16:49 ◼ ► and I don't even use most their features honestly because they have all sorts of cool stuff like the basics hover of [TS]
00:16:55 ◼ ► course lets you register to me names you guys know what that is I'm not going to not going to explain it. [TS]
00:17:01 ◼ ► You can raise it remains you can you know get a host I think I don't know if they offer full on web hosting [TS]
00:17:08 ◼ ► and you know all the domain stuff you need D.N.A.'s all the stuff that you think should come with it does come with [TS]
00:17:14 ◼ ► that you have privacy. Who is privacy built in for free for any field that supports it. [TS]
00:17:28 ◼ ► and they have a beautiful interface you know managing the stuff is all they decide whether a face of amazing support [TS]
00:17:33 ◼ ► where not only can you go online of course they have those options but you can even call them on the phone [TS]
00:17:38 ◼ ► and a human being picks up the phone they have a no hold no wait no transfer phone policy so you call this number [TS]
00:17:44 ◼ ► during business hours and you talk to a human immediately who can actually help you. It's really quite amazing. [TS]
00:17:50 ◼ ► They're running a sale right now so we have all these new domain extensions things like you know dot plumbing [TS]
00:17:57 ◼ ► and all this all these all these crazy to me extensions. Now they're running it until until September first. [TS]
00:18:10 ◼ ► I believe there are I believe they're pretty deeply discounted so all these new domain extensions of come out over the [TS]
00:18:25 ◼ ► or until September first I believe this is a doctor greater than or less than operator and swift for this range here. [TS]
00:18:32 ◼ ► So until September first these are on sale. C.M. Learned Swift I told you I would learn it or something. [TS]
00:18:42 ◼ ► I even pay attention when they change the syntax like oh you see I read I read the Internet. [TS]
00:18:48 ◼ ► So going to head over to hover dot com see the full list of all these Krishna domains [TS]
00:18:54 ◼ ► They have also this great value transfer service one of our friend of the show Joel Housman was telling me that he had [TS]
00:19:03 ◼ ► but he he had to do a pretty large transfer of many domains into hover and he used a valid transfer service for it [TS]
00:19:12 ◼ ► and it's a number that I you know I would I would assume that if hover had some asterisk somewhere saying we won't do [TS]
00:19:19 ◼ ► Domains I would've assumed this number was above that but they did it and it worked great [TS]
00:19:31 ◼ ► If you choose to you can you basically just give them the log in to your old registrar [TS]
00:19:35 ◼ ► and they will move it all over for you if you don't have to of course you can move it yourself [TS]
00:19:39 ◼ ► but moving them a name such as you got to make sure you got the D.N.A.'s settings correct [TS]
00:19:43 ◼ ► and you know don't drop anything on the floor otherwise than your server goes down for eight hours. [TS]
00:19:46 ◼ ► New things propagate anyway go to hover dot com It's just a regular That's good basically [TS]
00:19:52 ◼ ► and that's that's quite a feat in this industry. I use it lots of people use it. Check it out. [TS]
00:20:06 ◼ ► Maybe one of the one of the host of the show might say that frequently. I think ever could that be something like that. [TS]
00:20:19 ◼ ► and tell them that you came from us which we can to sponsor our show make us keep making shows. So everyone's happy. [TS]
00:20:25 ◼ ► Thank you very much to hover for sponsoring our show once again. Excellent all right. [TS]
00:20:30 ◼ ► So today the day that we're recording this which is probably roughly a week before we release it is the first day of [TS]
00:20:47 ◼ ► but a hurry so I guess I would assume they were all just taken at as soon as they started. [TS]
00:20:56 ◼ ► when I heard there was kept in a million like to a million people really want to run a beta beta app maybe even a beta [TS]
00:21:04 ◼ ► Like I thought you know you got to do the whole installation procedure and it's all different and weird [TS]
00:21:13 ◼ ► Man I guess maybe they're equipped in terms of having Do you think a million mac users have good enough backups that if [TS]
00:21:19 ◼ ► they install the assembly bed and immediately race their entire discreate would be fine. [TS]
00:21:25 ◼ ► How many I mean what is the base of mac users I don't know I would guess in the maybe around one hundred million range [TS]
00:21:33 ◼ ► So like one percent of you think about one percent of people I think one percent of mac users might have good backups. [TS]
00:21:39 ◼ ► But with time machine everything eighty millions as a chat room style base of mac users I don't. [TS]
00:21:45 ◼ ► Anyway it seems I mean we know that most of the people who stole this bit are not going to have good backups [TS]
00:21:49 ◼ ► and chances are they'll be fine but like you know people are people their own worst enemies [TS]
00:21:55 ◼ ► and as with magic kids like I mean I know if I was like yep uninstallers on the family computer right now. [TS]
00:22:00 ◼ ► No question I mean like I did with Windows two thousand when that when I came out here [TS]
00:22:05 ◼ ► when I tweeted about this I was like look I don't generally talk about on the show I don't generally recommend people [TS]
00:22:10 ◼ ► install data as a beta means it's not finished means there's going to be bugs have backups blah blah blah the whole [TS]
00:22:17 ◼ ► It's best if you could do it on a spare machine if not that on a spare hard drive all like all the stuff went of like [TS]
00:22:30 ◼ ► when I was a kid as part of the learning process I don't tell people they can't do it but if someone installs this [TS]
00:22:38 ◼ ► and there's some bug that causes data loss they're going to be super pissed like how dare the apple like you know like [TS]
00:22:46 ◼ ► You know even the version like is always going to be bugs like every piece of software comes with that big giant all [TS]
00:22:52 ◼ ► caps thing that says the software is not useful for any purpose like whatever the hell that text is the you have that [TS]
00:22:58 ◼ ► It's like a warrant ability something with disclosure of disclaimer are going to build these with [TS]
00:23:06 ◼ ► but we're saying nope we do not save the software is good for anything even if even if it directly contradicts what was [TS]
00:23:11 ◼ ► on the box. Right like you know if we put on the box the software can add numbers here. [TS]
00:23:18 ◼ ► If my just erase your disconnect it anyway so you know people just have to use their own conscience and like kids [TS]
00:23:31 ◼ ► But just because Apple releases something publicly doesn't mean it is of the same stability [TS]
00:23:39 ◼ ► So you know go for it use your conscience as your guide so that I mean that's why I thought million is maybe not so [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► The real question is not so much who's going to start and how are they going to go I was going to go for them [TS]
00:24:12 ◼ ► Thing I wonder if this is about enterprise stuff you know how so like giving like giving enterprises being able to go [TS]
00:24:20 ◼ ► and say look we're becoming more open we're now doing public betas to make our stuff a little more palatable purity [TS]
00:24:26 ◼ ► and I don't think of him that I think of arms if he if you remember they did public betas for a ten nine three in ten [TS]
00:24:39 ◼ ► and Ivan who cares to have a public bit of a point release because like there's nothing you know it doesn't look any [TS]
00:24:46 ◼ ► I don't even install the point releases you know I even though I'm on an active program to get all the emails about it [TS]
00:24:58 ◼ ► and I think Apple got good results from the ten wondering to inform is again the debate is like why why bother going to [TS]
00:25:05 ◼ ► the public especially with tend not to be really careful like regular non developers download ten one three is like [TS]
00:25:15 ◼ ► and the answer is yes the answer is that different a different class of person use downloads this type of thing [TS]
00:25:22 ◼ ► and they use it in a different way than developers use it develop really probably using it to test their apps [TS]
00:25:31 ◼ ► and they don't have maybe they have pet U.I. Bugs but they don't have like penne A.P.I. Bugs. [TS]
00:25:35 ◼ ► Right so they're going to they're going to start and use it like a regular computer [TS]
00:25:39 ◼ ► and find things that developers wouldn't find and that's I think why Apple is going with the larger beta [TS]
00:25:47 ◼ ► Yes of course there was there were there were ten public beta as in before ten point zero if anyone remembers way back [TS]
00:26:01 ◼ ► And that was a similar type of thing in that they had had a Developer Preview releases a voice ten [TS]
00:26:07 ◼ ► but it was probably some schedule pressure to say is this a real things people can buy [TS]
00:26:10 ◼ ► and be having a wider test group is is a good thing so it's good to buy something then it was good about thirty bucks [TS]
00:26:21 ◼ ► or whatever the public beta has a public feedback application that it's right in the docket isn't solved all the beta [TS]
00:26:28 ◼ ► read for the show it's a little purple icon right in the dock with a nice looking little app where you can send your [TS]
00:26:33 ◼ ► and I guarantee you they're going to get very very different feedback from people type in little application [TS]
00:26:41 ◼ ► and they've made it as easy as possible soon as you launch a public beta throws the feedback in your face explains what [TS]
00:26:49 ◼ ► and start typing stuff if you think you've got a suggestion or a problem or whatever. [TS]
00:26:53 ◼ ► So I don't think there's any particular downsides to this except for the poor suckers are going down the road [TS]
00:27:04 ◼ ► I don't think that any reputation that they get from people who download a beta find a bug get said about it is going [TS]
00:27:10 ◼ ► to really hurt them especially since they're capping it and especially since those people will probably get over it. [TS]
00:27:16 ◼ ► I wonder if one of the big driving factors for this might have been the ten nine O G email issues because that was that [TS]
00:27:24 ◼ ► was like this massive issue where you know we were mavericks Dato had and even I think that one [TS]
00:27:35 ◼ ► and that's the kind of bug that you don't tend to find in large numbers among developers because they're usually not [TS]
00:27:42 ◼ ► making it their primary machine like moving into it and bring their e-mail over and everything. [TS]
00:27:47 ◼ ► Developers who were testing you know just testing out their apps are probably you do a clean install on some external [TS]
00:27:52 ◼ ► drive or some or some different partition and testing their app and that's it. And so and that was a pretty severe and. [TS]
00:28:04 ◼ ► and it definitely should have gotten caught in the betas but I think that's a weird one because I did put my real G. [TS]
00:28:18 ◼ ► Mail never has worked for me you know like every time I do it I go to like first latest Triton the default config like [TS]
00:28:27 ◼ ► you said steam Apple now you just do the right thing and it doesn't you know doesn't work right. [TS]
00:28:32 ◼ ► and things appear in one place not in the other it's not in sync with the Web you while such things then I go to [TS]
00:28:37 ◼ ► and say Google do you have any updated advice on how I'm supposed to configure Apple Mail the work thing another [TS]
00:28:42 ◼ ► release different under fault I configured bagels and it still works in crazy ways. [TS]
00:28:46 ◼ ► I think that's not a tenable configuration. I'd never would recommend anybody if you have a G. [TS]
00:28:52 ◼ ► Mail account do not use Apple Mail that the only thing that works if you have a G. [TS]
00:28:55 ◼ ► Mail can you money that mail it to pop which G. Mail still supports pop your mail that way which is terrible. [TS]
00:29:03 ◼ ► but at least that works in a understandable consistent fashion so I you know I feel better for the people who have this [TS]
00:29:13 ◼ ► and Apple Mail for years like maybe they sort of got to a steady state where they understood the foibles like you know [TS]
00:29:19 ◼ ► you know the civil or just don't you know hide all mail from the label for my mouth [TS]
00:29:24 ◼ ► Whatever recommended guy that they read this year last year the year before because there have been many many guides of [TS]
00:29:33 ◼ ► I go back through the years and find a different guides all the guys are different they can't all be right. [TS]
00:29:39 ◼ ► Eyes but anyway they get something that they sort of understand that works the way I think it does [TS]
00:29:44 ◼ ► And yet there were legitimate bugs in here that apparently were worse than they were before [TS]
00:29:48 ◼ ► but there still have to be crazy idiosyncratic behaviors that I mean there was when I was testing it. [TS]
00:29:54 ◼ ► I can't trust that it's going to do what I want and the web interface to G.-Mail when I move something Mark. [TS]
00:30:01 ◼ ► or wherever it works it always does what it was supposed to do it never undoes itself there's never any mysteries [TS]
00:30:13 ◼ ► when I think rise of the web you will I know the stuff so I think that is kind of a lost cause [TS]
00:30:23 ◼ ► Like if suddenly people's existing Gmail Apple Mail set up that they were used to like the set of bugs they're used to [TS]
00:30:28 ◼ ► shift to a different set of bugs or add the worst bug people will tell them about it [TS]
00:30:32 ◼ ► and they won't miss it so I think that you know if they had done this for mavericks they would have caught that bug as [TS]
00:30:40 ◼ ► I don't recommend anybody use Apple Mail with you though not in this release not in any future release until like I [TS]
00:30:47 ◼ ► think I think pretty sickly ever because as much as email want to support I'm out I'm out has a different model than [TS]
00:30:53 ◼ ► the G. Mail model and I don't feel you can ever bridge those worlds without some compromises. [TS]
00:30:57 ◼ ► and also from what I understand you know I'm after is a pretty complicated standard And also Apple Mail apparently is [TS]
00:31:05 ◼ ► I'm app client like it takes some liberties like I was playing with a problem earlier [TS]
00:31:09 ◼ ► and some guys on Twitter told me that he wrote on app server once and dealing with Apple Mail was hard [TS]
00:31:15 ◼ ► and I have heard that I've heard that before throughout history from a lot of people I suspect that the Google attitude [TS]
00:31:22 ◼ ► like if some kind of behavior in mail that is not quite doing what kind of spec says is correct [TS]
00:31:31 ◼ ► Mail Google is exactly the kind of company to say well we're not going to fix up Apple's problem. [TS]
00:31:36 ◼ ► Well a global does seem like it wants to work with Apple Mail because they do publish the detailed guide to the [TS]
00:31:42 ◼ ► screenshots of how to configure Apple Mail to work at G M L Like I think there is an effort there on Google's part to [TS]
00:31:49 ◼ ► make their web service work with Apple's not quite mostly because I think a lot of people who use Macs [TS]
00:31:53 ◼ ► and like to use Apple Mail. You think they use Apple Mail in corporate and Google Yeah there's Macs. [TS]
00:32:03 ◼ ► There and you're not like there's a lot of people who just don't like to use whether you are from L. [TS]
00:32:10 ◼ ► Well you the way I think that Apple is actually more apt to be like where screw those Google guys G.-Mail doesn't [TS]
00:32:19 ◼ ► but you know they do that label thing they do all this weirdness into lead is actually archiving screw those Google [TS]
00:32:26 ◼ ► guys we're going to do it our way which is the way the spec says we should maybe and it's actually Google's problem. [TS]
00:32:32 ◼ ► I think that's much more likely than Google being bitter about Apple not handling things right. [TS]
00:32:38 ◼ ► I also imagine that Google does not care that much about getting all the details of my map exactly right you know. [TS]
00:32:45 ◼ ► Yes You know if this is their problem like I mean I said on Twitter a while ago that I suspect a Google map is is not [TS]
00:32:57 ◼ ► and that shows throughout history with how bad it's been hasn't just been like client side bugs actually been like [TS]
00:33:04 ◼ ► server failures frequently and stuff like that like Google I map you know and that has always sucked [TS]
00:33:10 ◼ ► and so I have to imagine it's just not a big priority for them because it doesn't serve any of their any of their [TS]
00:33:16 ◼ ► and they probably just look down on it like some kind of crappy compatibility layer they have to have for certain [TS]
00:33:21 ◼ ► stubborn people who won't use the web at. That's the that's the attitude that I get from them. [TS]
00:33:25 ◼ ► They still support pop though in the same way you know like they support pop in the way I support I.E. [TS]
00:33:34 ◼ ► They support it why would they still have pop around who in the world who are using POP for their G.-Mail than me by [TS]
00:33:42 ◼ ► Mail and outlook and the reason I do that is that is my backup of all my e-mail you know I pop everything from G. [TS]
00:33:47 ◼ ► Mail down and you know just get siphoning to a big bin doesn't you know get filtered after that you know what I mean [TS]
00:33:53 ◼ ► but that is one hundred percent reliable and there's no way I'm ever going to launch my app [TS]
00:34:00 ◼ ► and they get confused about the world because of things the prefix is different it's going to be like oh I don't think [TS]
00:34:06 ◼ ► but I've always local files let me just delete them all for years never going to do that with Pop Pop is like it comes [TS]
00:34:12 ◼ ► and after you get it I don't care what the hell you do with it I'm never going to touch it again unless you delete it [TS]
00:34:17 ◼ ► locally I'm not going to you know so it's just so much simple so much simpler so I hope they never do get rid of [TS]
00:34:26 ◼ ► but yeah I don't know who you are I'm not I don't even know if I'm out as one of those standards where there's like eight [TS]
00:34:32 ◼ ► and there's no like official one so you can argue about why I'm complying with the standard is an arse is there an [TS]
00:34:38 ◼ ► or is it just a million different weird implementations caused the Web used to be in the battle days I don't know for [TS]
00:34:43 ◼ ► sure I do know it is a very large complicated protocol that can do a lot of things like I no can do calendar sending [TS]
00:34:50 ◼ ► note saying all this crazy stuff that almost no clients actually set out how to use it for notes. [TS]
00:34:56 ◼ ► and so I would imagine the kind of thing where like every client supports a different eighty percent of spec. [TS]
00:35:03 ◼ ► Yeah and then Apple Mail does those weird stuff about like where do you want to put the deleted messages [TS]
00:35:08 ◼ ► and then I'm happy I like is that am I putting that in a place that also exists in the world [TS]
00:35:13 ◼ ► or opening in the local one it's like I'm always fighting with Apple Mail to get each account to keep track of its own [TS]
00:35:19 ◼ ► where to put my drafts folder of my deleted messages wherever my sent mail in a sane way because it's just so so [TS]
00:35:25 ◼ ► confusing which is why I recommend everybody uses e-mail who is not technically inclined should just use the G. [TS]
00:35:33 ◼ ► and funnel all their email there because the Juno web interface will never be out of sync you can send to [TS]
00:35:43 ◼ ► and I get your punishment is that there was some of the exactly wrong analogy don't send me email. [TS]
00:35:54 ◼ ► and I came to get my own parents to do that so I am unsuccessful in this campaign to try to get my ma. [TS]
00:36:00 ◼ ► Other insists on using Apple Mail and she insists on having multiple e-mail accounts one is for spam she says. [TS]
00:36:13 ◼ ► In a chat room for I'm out they say it's R A C thirty five o one so maybe there is a spec [TS]
00:36:19 ◼ ► but yeah like like Marco said there was a long history of all this on maps are very good [TS]
00:36:24 ◼ ► and the service doesn't end like in G. Mail you're totally right there is no I have a server it is G. [TS]
00:36:31 ◼ ► and had to decide OK well what is the closest analogy in the way the GMO works to this operation [TS]
00:36:41 ◼ ► So as riveting as all this email conversation is can we go back to the assembly beta because I have a couple questions. [TS]
00:36:47 ◼ ► We are sponsored this week once again by Lynda dot com at L Y N D A dot com Go there slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:36:55 ◼ ► Lynda dot com has amazing video tutorials to help you learn new skills whether it's programming languages applications [TS]
00:37:11 ◼ ► and you get all of that they have let me see they have over twenty four hundred courses they say they add more every [TS]
00:37:18 ◼ ► They work directly with software companies to get new new new versions and new betas In fact I guarantee you [TS]
00:37:23 ◼ ► when the dot com is definitely working on a new seventy video right now because now that there's a beta [TS]
00:37:33 ◼ ► Lynda dot com They have people at the top of their field professionals who work in these fields making these videos [TS]
00:37:40 ◼ ► and diagrams everything is very high production value video it's not just like some crap thing you find in You Tube [TS]
00:37:50 ◼ ► I view Lynda dot com videos myself to do things like learn how to better edit pod cast using logic. [TS]
00:38:01 ◼ ► and the good thing is you can go try to because you can get a special free trial from Lynda dot com for seven days girl [TS]
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00:38:16 ◼ ► You get access to everything unlimited for twenty five dollars a month flat fee and matter how much you watch. [TS]
00:38:36 ◼ ► but I I start paying attention to that part so they have a new app at least for i OS [TS]
00:38:43 ◼ ► and you can even damage videos to save offline to watch you know on the subway or whatever on planes. [TS]
00:38:49 ◼ ► It's really an amazing service these videos and they set are very very good. They're highly produced. [TS]
00:38:58 ◼ ► There's a transcript on the side you can follow on the transcript you can click to a different part of the transcript. [TS]
00:39:02 ◼ ► Ill see to that part of the video. It's really incredible. Go to Lynda dot com L Y N D A dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
00:39:11 ◼ ► or You can learn a real language you can learn applications like logic you can learn Photoshop Illustrator all these [TS]
00:39:16 ◼ ► terrible apps that are really hard to use because they're all made for professionals. [TS]
00:39:20 ◼ ► You can be one of the professionals and learn how to use these terrible apps in good ways. [TS]
00:39:24 ◼ ► Anyway thanks a lot to Lynda dot com on the dot com slash A.T.P. Thank you very much. [TS]
00:39:33 ◼ ► If Apple really wanted to appeal to the enterprise I don't recall which one of the two of you said that wouldn't do you [TS]
00:39:40 ◼ ► think there are better levers to pull than just issuing a public beta for example was a new John that it that it [TS]
00:39:46 ◼ ► complained and moaned and justifiably about the Cisco V.P.N. Client or whatever V.P.N. [TS]
00:39:51 ◼ ► Client was that didn't work with Mavericks for forever or am I making that up. Still doesn't because I didn't try to. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► Yet they built in Apple built in a bunch of you know capability to work with a lot of common VBN clients using like [TS]
00:40:08 ◼ ► whatever the open protocols are for secure IP and so on and so forth. And for a little while my company used to be P.N. [TS]
00:40:16 ◼ ► but it's basically the fault of the company saying well we can't have that we can't have just built in our support for [TS]
00:40:24 ◼ ► We need to innovate and so we need to make a new protocol of this so it doesn't support [TS]
00:40:28 ◼ ► and then make every install the world's worst software which is like you know V.P.N. [TS]
00:40:37 ◼ ► or care anything about the mac it's gotten better over the I still feel a little be using it to give an example of the [TS]
00:40:44 ◼ ► type of thing that really makes no difference but just makes me feel bad about V.P.N. Software when I launch my V.P.N. [TS]
00:40:51 ◼ ► Software it has a little dialog box to the connect button on it that little window that the first window that appears [TS]
00:40:58 ◼ ► appears in just some location like the top of it is jammed up against the menu bar by the right side is like an inch [TS]
00:41:07 ◼ ► If I move that window doesn't matter next time a launch apps can be right back to the spot I don't know where it stores [TS]
00:41:12 ◼ ► that window location every time it launches I feel like I have to move it. It's taunting me anyway. [TS]
00:41:21 ◼ ► and I don't think this move has to do is a way to do it because it is so clearly focused on the public as in people who [TS]
00:41:32 ◼ ► and go through the process it is so consumer like aimed at a consumer super friendly big giant tech screen shots. [TS]
00:41:39 ◼ ► When you try to sign up for it's like here's what you can do back up your computer you can do it this way you can do [TS]
00:41:46 ◼ ► when you download it it makes you go through another big long list it doesn't even show you the download link so you [TS]
00:41:50 ◼ ► can't rush through quick stuff you have to read text and then eventually like it is so consumer focused [TS]
00:41:54 ◼ ► and same thing with installation put in the feedback thing right in your face. This is for regular people now. [TS]
00:42:01 ◼ ► People can do it as well but I see people they would just sign up for a MAC developer account [TS]
00:42:06 ◼ ► and have access to all that have seeds anyway and they would probably be using it more like a developer [TS]
00:42:10 ◼ ► and they have specific apps or specific you know things they're testing compatibility with [TS]
00:42:19 ◼ ► and try out all their supported software and report bugs to whoever is appropriate for the stuff it doesn't work. [TS]
00:42:25 ◼ ► Right now that's my point is that a public beta doesn't really help with this moron and V.P.N. [TS]
00:42:36 ◼ ► Companies like Cisco that insists on having their own god awful clients to actually support new operating systems I [TS]
00:42:42 ◼ ► just feel like if though if what they're trying to accomplish is enterprise adoption I don't feel like a public beta is [TS]
00:42:48 ◼ ► the right lever to pull to get there. Yeah it was in there. Then we go through the whole thing with the Cisco V.P.N. [TS]
00:42:53 ◼ ► I'm not going to call them ironically as again their software works hasn't crashed hasn't caused kernel cracks unlike [TS]
00:43:06 ◼ ► Wise look I think last time I was it more or less that they had an update but sort of a release train [TS]
00:43:11 ◼ ► and they couldn't get their update to support Mavericks onto the release trainer will be out soon [TS]
00:43:15 ◼ ► or they had to get it out on the lawn later you know I think that software like that that is essential. [TS]
00:43:30 ◼ ► and they want to say something about the O. S. Some bug in the O. S. That Apple has and fix that. [TS]
00:43:34 ◼ ► That you told them about an issue is like well we can't go until they fix that bug I don't you know do has a way a [TS]
00:43:40 ◼ ► couple weeks is that a big deal. Not really it's better than not being supported for years. [TS]
00:43:47 ◼ ► when Oracle didn't have a sixty four bit client library for O S ten for literally years like [TS]
00:43:53 ◼ ► and it was just you know that's just inexcusable neglect Cisco was just behind by a week or two whatever [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► Great but there's a range of stuff here but the public beta is not even on the radar I think of these I.T. [TS]
00:44:07 ◼ ► People unless they're worried about their individual employees know about the public beta and trying to install it [TS]
00:44:14 ◼ ► Right and then that's kind of my point is that the public beta may do a lot of things for Apple [TS]
00:44:24 ◼ ► but where did these what did you call the thing that was on the dock that lets you submit feedback whatever the [TS]
00:44:30 ◼ ► feedback app is what it what is the output of that internal to Apple like oh those radars. What is that. [TS]
00:44:36 ◼ ► I bet it's I mean they probably use everything is probably all goes into radar eventually [TS]
00:44:46 ◼ ► and a couple other people friend of the show Daniel Jack in a few other people right around to be to be D.C. [TS]
00:44:51 ◼ ► Time were coming on back and forth about well is any real utility in filing radar blah blah blah [TS]
00:44:56 ◼ ► and this is not exactly a forgive me apples to apples comparison but nevertheless much kind of wonder. [TS]
00:45:04 ◼ ► I just kind of wonder if this is going to radar that sounds just freaking terrible because I got to imagine they're [TS]
00:45:14 ◼ ► Well you'd be able to feel like if it is going to read I would only be because that's the only bucket they have [TS]
00:45:20 ◼ ► but it's not as if it would be suddenly cluttering up people's in boxes because there's got to be a process whereby [TS]
00:45:24 ◼ ► someone you know there's a first level three eyes of sorting through the giant avalanche of crap because it's coming [TS]
00:45:36 ◼ ► Suddenly after this launches people who would normally troll the radars for bugs have a big flood of stuff has got to [TS]
00:45:41 ◼ ► be layers of processes before it because so much of it is going to be like you know someone just put in the chair [TS]
00:45:49 ◼ ► Well maybe that was not you know not really actionable in the cemetery ten ten zero time frame. [TS]
00:46:00 ◼ ► If it is radar it's just radar with some sort of tag or whatever indication that it comes from the public [TS]
00:46:06 ◼ ► but currently I mean if we thought that that radars were black hole before all of this. [TS]
00:46:23 ◼ ► and four found things that they wouldn't of found otherwise for the developer stuff with the developer using it they [TS]
00:46:35 ◼ ► when just developers are using it so they're not going to let it just all sit in a bucket the whole point of this is [TS]
00:46:42 ◼ ► but they're going to sift like they're not just going to let it all set there they're going to set for that gold [TS]
00:46:46 ◼ ► and hope to find like a one or two weird things or someone with an unexpected configuration [TS]
00:46:51 ◼ ► and they're going to look for the big ones crashers data loss kernel panics all all that good stuff. Right right. [TS]
00:46:56 ◼ ► And then my final question not because I would actually advocate you giving advice of this capacity [TS]
00:47:01 ◼ ► but I know we're going to get a million e-mails of already seen quite a few tweets if you were to recommend a backup [TS]
00:47:08 ◼ ► strategy that is the minimum viable backup strategy in order to safely install the assembly beta What do you think that [TS]
00:47:19 ◼ ► or a time machine back up to a different Dr I think is what you have to protect yourself from is some catastrophic [TS]
00:47:28 ◼ ► So there's a problem the install process like it doesn't even install successfully now you discus unbuildable you [TS]
00:47:36 ◼ ► and you just take out the bad disk boot off the super duper disk immediately clone from the super duper just back on [TS]
00:47:42 ◼ ► and you're OK But here is the thing that I could not fit in a tweet that people should understand there is still a risk [TS]
00:47:51 ◼ ► and it seems to work fine for long use if you use it as your main machine that there's some sort of problem like oh I [TS]
00:47:56 ◼ ► use that for like a week and everything was fine but then there was some kind of bug. [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► Thing became unbelievable and I don't know what to do even if you have a super duper backup from a week ago. [TS]
00:48:08 ◼ ► or an hour's worth of work there's always a chance a day lost if you did something somewhere [TS]
00:48:16 ◼ ► but I wrote you know two thousand words of an article yesterday. You tell me the two thousand words are gone. [TS]
00:48:22 ◼ ► Like uh well you know you just did a back of yesterday should be fine no that was a whole day's worth of work like [TS]
00:48:27 ◼ ► Sort of not in proportion to the amount of data that they lose it's just an emotional thing like all that was super [TS]
00:48:36 ◼ ► and go oh I didn't realize that I was actually writing a draft locally in my email client a draft is gone you know. [TS]
00:48:45 ◼ ► when you have a back up because if you keep using the computer you're producing new data [TS]
00:48:51 ◼ ► and nobody could possibly be backing up stuff every second you get I mean this is a learning lesson I guess maybe we [TS]
00:48:56 ◼ ► should let people go ahead learn learn better about like if there's no such thing as I am instantly backed up all the [TS]
00:49:09 ◼ ► or something you could have some chance of you know zero data loss even that you could you still could end up in a [TS]
00:49:20 ◼ ► but it's still meaningless because something was in the middle of doing something on a kernel pack anyway. [TS]
00:49:25 ◼ ► Yeah so to remember a time machine and you're still not entirely protected. You're never entirely protected. [TS]
00:49:31 ◼ ► Even you using a non bedo ass when you're working if something bad happens and the oldest goes corrupt [TS]
00:49:37 ◼ ► or you have a hardware failure you're going to lose everything that happened between your last backup and now [TS]
00:49:54 ◼ ► It is equal I mean I was typing this month this week. But instead it's a clue and they're pretty cool too. [TS]
00:50:02 ◼ ► You actually like and I mean so first of all they have some important let me tell you quickly they didn't include this. [TS]
00:50:10 ◼ ► Internets are terrible usually theirs is good they have all these great features it's built by people you know who care [TS]
00:50:15 ◼ ► and that's saying a lot for an Internet company. That's that's unusual in that market. [TS]
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00:50:55 ◼ ► and your team stay up to date on what has to be done next and it's all right there in one place. [TS]
00:51:06 ◼ ► These tasks are right there informing everyone of all types have been completed or some need additional work. [TS]
00:51:13 ◼ ► or a team you can comment on these tasks you can keep all your changes all in one place and [TS]
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00:51:28 ◼ ► They are all unified dashboard with due date clearly marked making it super simple to manage your day to day work [TS]
00:51:33 ◼ ► and clarify your priorities. Unicorn is a free for all it will customers coming this summer. [TS]
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00:51:49 ◼ ► Thank you very much Lou software once again for sponsoring our show they're really good. All right. [TS]
00:51:54 ◼ ► Anything else on the beta. John you said you installed it so what one has to install it. [TS]
00:52:00 ◼ ► Well I mean I don't have to visit the bill that's one of the first events like we discussed this way back [TS]
00:52:05 ◼ ► when we were first discussing the bit I think was after that and I said well they're going to do betas [TS]
00:52:08 ◼ ► but I'm sure that the developer releases are you know it's going to be a couple of data is like milestone wise [TS]
00:52:18 ◼ ► and that is the case then the seeds will if you're on the mac developer program they will continue to release seeds of [TS]
00:52:28 ◼ ► Mostly because you don't expect regular users to be subject to that kind of churn like regular users don't want to even [TS]
00:52:33 ◼ ► just doing through software update don't update their oh I said with that frequency so the public betas are going to be [TS]
00:52:40 ◼ ► and in between there there's going to be smaller releases of developer use which means essentially public betas may not [TS]
00:52:48 ◼ ► and I believe that is actually the case with the public beta where on developer preview release four I can tell you [TS]
00:53:00 ◼ ► So anyway those are just two different trains all pulling from the same source repository [TS]
00:53:06 ◼ ► but that is a difference in the program so developers you're not really missing anything by not being in the public [TS]
00:53:11 ◼ ► and seeing that experience the reason I'm doing it is not for development reasons on developer for journalistic purposes [TS]
00:53:18 ◼ ► just to see like what it was experience like and what is Apple doing there they have a big fact on the thing [TS]
00:53:23 ◼ ► and interestingly in the fact I was wondered how they were going to handle this like how do you like come on [TS]
00:53:30 ◼ ► and if you want you know if you decide you don't want to know what are they going to tell them like Oh hi try this beta [TS]
00:53:35 ◼ ► I don't like it I want to go back to my old thing that's in the fact it says if you need help returning your mac you're [TS]
00:53:40 ◼ ► shipping version of O S ten and we started from a time machine back up which they told you to it too early [TS]
00:53:48 ◼ ► or reference online documentation so they're basically saying look if you join this program [TS]
00:53:54 ◼ ► and you can't figure out how co-op of care I suppose that's something to the same Apple Care rules as everything else [TS]
00:54:00 ◼ ► Yet whatever ninety days free after they charge you but I suppose you could also shop at an Apple store [TS]
00:54:08 ◼ ► Probably back to mavericks and then a lot of people are going to have a conversation and the person on the phone [TS]
00:54:22 ◼ ► but the thing that Apple's essentially saying you know we will we're here for you if you want to like if you want to do [TS]
00:54:33 ◼ ► but really if you just want to wait a little bit longer eventual Yosemite will be a shipping version of worst [TS]
00:54:39 ◼ ► and at the final interesting point I want to make is that Apple is explicitly promising that if you get this beta [TS]
00:54:45 ◼ ► and you just continue to run software update you will update right through to the retail version which I tweeted about [TS]
00:54:54 ◼ ► or less most of the time you've been able to it's not a software update to the release version certainly install on top [TS]
00:55:03 ◼ ► but this is the first time that I can recall that Apple is explicitly saying this train of pre release software will [TS]
00:55:15 ◼ ► It's a completely officially supported is not like you know you can get away with it and it will probably work [TS]
00:55:19 ◼ ► but you might have some weird like POS files left over this is a configuration Apple is supporting [TS]
00:55:26 ◼ ► and make sure it really works of there's no weird left over turds from the pre released old screw with the release one [TS]
00:55:42 ◼ ► So you'll be left with the profile from the last build blast of building every time that launches it'll crash because [TS]
00:55:52 ◼ ► but just never came up in Apple testing because they'd never they didn't really support you taking the last day of [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► Without like first erasing it or whatever but here they're giving it their blessing [TS]
00:56:04 ◼ ► and saying you'll be fine which I mean they have to do obviously you have to tell these people OK now erase your desk [TS]
00:56:09 ◼ ► and you know or restore from your backup and install the retail they just want people to get the beta [TS]
00:56:14 ◼ ► and of keeping software updated that will carry them right through to the release build. [TS]
00:56:19 ◼ ► Well that's convenient I still don't really get the motivation for installing a beta less like on like on my phone [TS]
00:56:28 ◼ ► I still now I am a developer for the phone and I still haven't sold the I was a beta. [TS]
00:56:32 ◼ ► I keep I keep planning on it on the beta for but I keep having other more important things to do [TS]
00:56:37 ◼ ► but like on the mac I would I would never install a beta less on my Mac. I'm like that's where I get my work done. [TS]
00:56:55 ◼ ► Most people only have one MAC That is their main value of the whole thing was like That's why I don't think most people [TS]
00:56:59 ◼ ► are going to back up so installing a spring in my spare macaroni max three is right of course developers developers [TS]
00:57:07 ◼ ► have a million of them and hoarders like me have no hit home or not it is never throw them out or sell them [TS]
00:57:11 ◼ ► but regular people don't act that way so I mean I don't think there's going to be lots and lots of spam X. [TS]
00:57:17 ◼ ► or If you know they didn't have spare mags the spare ones are going to be old and I don't like I thought the old one [TS]
00:57:22 ◼ ► or the spare Macs exist for some purpose if the kids computer is ongoing or it's you know it's a MacMini on the T.V. [TS]
00:57:31 ◼ ► Usually there's some kind of purpose for people to have multiple computers so fun fact [TS]
00:57:35 ◼ ► when I was a kid I don't remember how old I was but like twelve or something like that. [TS]
00:57:41 ◼ ► Dad brought home a box full of three and a half inch diskettes from work I want to say it was like thirty of them [TS]
00:57:53 ◼ ► and a half inch disks which took went down and a half and that crap was awesome. Then work was great. [TS]
00:58:01 ◼ ► I miss those days. Me I'm dying wish I think we're the only ones and miss it I miss it. Who ever used. [TS]
00:58:07 ◼ ► Also true that eventually T.M.C. That was it that it. We good things. Oh thank God we're three sponsor this week. [TS]
00:58:16 ◼ ► However Linda dot com and igloo and we will see you all next week. Now this show is over the weekend. [TS]
00:58:29 ◼ ► It was accidental accidental John and you are now sitting on the thing itself to that skill list [TS]
00:59:00 ◼ ► and the did you guys unfolding right into now. No want to do that. Yes you so nice I can listen I still read. [TS]
00:59:31 ◼ ► I have I haven't been testing some new headphones but of course you have a rich person headphone rental service. [TS]
00:59:41 ◼ ► I got of the whole thing about being a rich person is you don't rent the headphones to just buy them. [TS]
00:59:50 ◼ ► I'm sure they do like regular amps don't even like the Cell phones are so ridiculous that a regular amp doesn't have [TS]
00:59:58 ◼ ► enough power to power them. Once you connect the speaker terminals of a speaker amp. [TS]
01:00:06 ◼ ► and you said you mention one of the headphones that you didn't that didn't have the power as a new different pair of [TS]
01:00:12 ◼ ► This isn't this is not mentioned that pose this is the paramount in the footer saying I would love to try these on time [TS]
01:00:17 ◼ ► but I don't know I don't know where I could try to find them and then email people email you [TS]
01:00:22 ◼ ► Yeah exactly and so I But you know to buy the headphones and the amp would be like three thousand dollars [TS]
01:00:28 ◼ ► and for that you pretty much can't try them in person anywhere you know you can't walk into a Best Buy They don't have [TS]
01:00:34 ◼ ► they don't have things that are the specialize you know because they come with a single directional oxygen free crystal [TS]
01:00:39 ◼ ► enhanced cables are now you know that's a most of that crap is what the after market people in the hobbyist do the the [TS]
01:00:48 ◼ ► or even the fan his headphones the stock cables are like pretty low on the B.S. Meter. [TS]
01:00:53 ◼ ► Like you know the they they're balanced cables which means they're four pins that are three [TS]
01:00:57 ◼ ► and a huge giant axle are plugs Minette that's that's to provide some kind of benefit I'm not quite sure on the on the [TS]
01:01:05 ◼ ► rationale there but. So these headphones on a girl I mean come on their amazing. Yeah yeah they're shockingly good. [TS]
01:01:11 ◼ ► That's that's that's the gist of it but I don't I'm not crazy about the amp it's giant and the volume knob. [TS]
01:01:19 ◼ ► It's one of these things this is really ridiculous I feel bad for even talking about this rather than a typical pot on [TS]
01:01:27 ◼ ► a volume knob because just like I believe there usually goes like a variable resistor right potentiometer that's what [TS]
01:01:36 ◼ ► Well headphone nerds don't like regular volume knob pots because they apparently they're imprecise [TS]
01:01:46 ◼ ► and that in some other ways like there's there's issues with like Channel imbalance where like the left channel like [TS]
01:01:51 ◼ ► it's slightly lower than the right a certain position of an obvious because of the I guess the waiter made [TS]
01:02:00 ◼ ► Is just like a notched selector and it turns this giant rob the ghost of the entire length of the amp [TS]
01:02:06 ◼ ► and it goes to this tremendous drum in the back where each Notch has a pair of resistors like regular resistors [TS]
01:02:15 ◼ ► and it's just like turning away it's like a giant like knife switch almost that turns between these pairs of resistors [TS]
01:02:26 ◼ ► and it's just this giant drum of all these different resistors for all the different volumes of things that is crazy. [TS]
01:02:32 ◼ ► Yeah it's pretty funny I mean it's like it's funny how how crazy this is Anyway once I want to look over weren't [TS]
01:02:37 ◼ ► talking I look I'm talking about the hi fi man. E.F. Six amp and the eighty six orthodontic headphones. [TS]
01:02:56 ◼ ► or speakers like if you want like the best possible whatever the hell their definition of best as I can assume there is [TS]
01:03:03 ◼ ► or whatever listening experience is it better to have if you have unlimited funds to build like the building you're [TS]
01:03:08 ◼ ► going to have as a listening experience in right. Just unlimited fund is headphones the way to go or speakers. [TS]
01:03:15 ◼ ► I am not familiar enough with the speaker world to say I can at least say that in the headphone world [TS]
01:03:23 ◼ ► and one of the big differences is like really really nice headphones like the most of what people consider the best [TS]
01:03:36 ◼ ► I'm pretty sure nobody in the speaker Aubut say that any of the best beakers in the world are below like ten grand. [TS]
01:03:46 ◼ ► and so that that's one of the big reasons why people like high end headphones so much because they're so much more [TS]
01:03:52 ◼ ► accessible. You know high end speakers are basically expensive US cars like there you can see. [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► Or more you know one hundred thousand years it was like some you know because like there's arguments to where those [TS]
01:04:07 ◼ ► The speaker argument is that no headphone is ever going to give you sort of that whole body base feeling that you get [TS]
01:04:13 ◼ ► sitting in front of a speaker that has you know a powerful speaker that I like it's not going to be a full body [TS]
01:04:20 ◼ ► but on the other hand you would think all the things they can screw up the sound in a speaker as it moves around the [TS]
01:04:24 ◼ ► room and I'm going I'm saying you can build the room you want like you have unlimited funds right. [TS]
01:04:31 ◼ ► It's like we can cut out all the middlemen and just go like I can put thing right next year [TS]
01:04:36 ◼ ► and a half drive a lot of power because right next year year or so I can get you know super accurate [TS]
01:04:40 ◼ ► or whatever so you that that's the argument for headphones like we cut out all that crap that all the things all the [TS]
01:04:46 ◼ ► potential problems of the sound in an ideal situation like you're not going to build a building of your speakers yet to [TS]
01:04:53 ◼ ► And in that case maybe you're better off headphones because we don't have to worry about all the sound bouncing around [TS]
01:05:02 ◼ ► And he has a really nice set up which is not limited to vinyl before I get a million e-mails he has a fancy CD player [TS]
01:05:17 ◼ ► and as I've sworn to Marco many times that the best speakers he's ever heard are some custom molded in your monitors [TS]
01:05:26 ◼ ► that he got from Ultimate Ears that are literally he had the molded for the shape of his ear canal I know Marco that [TS]
01:05:36 ◼ ► but I would imagine based on the not custom molded Ultimate Ears that I have which are far [TS]
01:05:42 ◼ ► and away the best speakers I've ever heard. I can only I can only imagine how amazing these things are. [TS]
01:05:49 ◼ ► So to me I would guess that in in your monitor or something like it would probably be the best that you can get it. [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► You're monitors and really fancy headphones do not share that opinion. Real new monitors are very well respected. [TS]
01:06:09 ◼ ► However people love the headphones better and like the experts who review like all the top everything like [TS]
01:06:18 ◼ ► But in your model I mean and so I can't say that I as Katie said I can't really wear them they hurt my ears too much. [TS]
01:06:24 ◼ ► Even the ones there are ones that are more comfortable and I've never tried custom Yes please don't email me [TS]
01:06:33 ◼ ► and I think you know it's it probably has a lot to do you know John I think you're right like headphones can do a lot [TS]
01:06:43 ◼ ► It is all about the room like for me to build an audio listening room with speakers that would be the same quality I'm [TS]
01:06:57 ◼ ► And granted I know that sounds ridiculous to pay even that much for headphones I very aware of that [TS]
01:07:06 ◼ ► But if you're really into high quality music it's really a pretty amazing value compared to speakers [TS]
01:07:15 ◼ ► and it's just in practice like I'm usually listening while I'm at my computer working. [TS]
01:07:20 ◼ ► It's harder to do that with speakers it's harder to arrange the room it's much larger things [TS]
01:07:25 ◼ ► and then the rest of the house hears whatever you're listening to and you hear the rest of the house. [TS]
01:07:36 ◼ ► And so you you're able to concentrate on things whether it's the music or something else or both. [TS]
01:07:42 ◼ ► You're not getting that full body bass you're not well but yeah depends what you like. [TS]
01:07:46 ◼ ► Like I don't need full body bass I think the other people like my neighbors and the rest of my family [TS]
01:07:53 ◼ ► and my dog probably wouldn't appreciate the full body bass either. Headphones are really fantastic. [TS]
01:08:07 ◼ ► but even like what most people consider the best headphones in the world are about five thousand dollars [TS]
01:08:11 ◼ ► and even those almost no headphone or even go to that level. That's extremely rare. [TS]
01:08:17 ◼ ► The in ear ones like that's even more cutting out the middleman like us you get right down [TS]
01:08:22 ◼ ► and they're actually there right next to the air dry was like you you know the next step is is kind of the ear drum of [TS]
01:08:30 ◼ ► when you get that close you know you're limited by what kind of machinery to move there. [TS]
01:08:39 ◼ ► And so that's I don't imagine that the that the the sweet spot for accuracy versus cutting out the middleman is [TS]
01:08:49 ◼ ► and I don't know I don't know if you have right so let's talk about something a little more accessible. [TS]
01:09:00 ◼ ► John do you remember this tweet that you tweeted at men a couple days ago as a new Did you get a Playstation three [TS]
01:09:08 ◼ ► or four so I borrowed a Playstation three and I bought a Playstation three specifically to play journey Lou [TS]
01:09:20 ◼ ► and where you were you spoiled before you played you know anything about it besides it is called Journey. [TS]
01:09:25 ◼ ► I'm not really and you had some to do with the scarf and I was about the extent of it [TS]
01:09:29 ◼ ► but that's what the reasonable at this point as a result spoiler for it now were it was your Play Station connected [TS]
01:09:35 ◼ ► online when you played it. Yes And did you know that that that it should be or it was just an accident of ice. [TS]
01:09:42 ◼ ► OK so I guess I feared I didn't know that there was potential that I would run into other people in that I may [TS]
01:09:47 ◼ ► or may not be able to interact with them or if I could I like couldn't use like text [TS]
01:09:52 ◼ ► or anything in order to do so because I think I may have listened to the hypercritical we're going to use a [TS]
01:10:00 ◼ ► Here is boiled just boil but you didn't but you're you're a spoiler freeness is powered by apathy. [TS]
01:10:06 ◼ ► but you didn't care at the times the writing is in the Gotten of them yet you're both absolutely correct. [TS]
01:10:11 ◼ ► So let me start by saying that getting journey on to this Play Station is so fucking annoying that it is a testament to [TS]
01:10:23 ◼ ► If you had told me you were doing this I would have told you I told Marco to do which is to buy a code on Amazon for [TS]
01:10:33 ◼ ► Presumably Amazon already has your credit card and you're comfortable with that and then you get a digital code [TS]
01:10:50 ◼ ► Plugging in this Play Station and trying to use it again it's a Playstation three. [TS]
01:10:53 ◼ ► It's actually want to borrow it from my parents because my parents got it way back when [TS]
01:10:58 ◼ ► when they wanted a Blu ray player and at the time it was basically the cheapest we replay [TS]
01:11:01 ◼ ► or you could get him in keeping this for me all the time that your parents have this Playstation just sitting there. [TS]
01:11:09 ◼ ► Yes it was very early on I don't know anything about Playstation three Zor really video games at all [TS]
01:11:15 ◼ ► but I know for a fact that this was bought pretty darn early might have one with hardware Playstation two support that [TS]
01:11:35 ◼ ► Well the first problem I had was when I borrowed it from mom and dad they didn't give me controllers [TS]
01:11:42 ◼ ► I said going to make it hard to do anything you play with a Bluetooth remote I do it a few days until I actually had [TS]
01:11:50 ◼ ► Remote kind of how I was playing that flew Ray when I made that tweet about how loud it was [TS]
01:11:55 ◼ ► but anyway please tell me you didn't play journey with the bit with the D.V.D. Remote. No no no no no no. [TS]
01:12:08 ◼ ► and That I was pretty sure that I could use them even though they were dead while the U.S.B. [TS]
01:12:14 ◼ ► So the first thing I do when I turn on the Playstation once I had bothered to connect it to the Internet. [TS]
01:12:21 ◼ ► Of course I need to do a system update that work. I don't remember something like half an hour an hour fine. [TS]
01:12:27 ◼ ► So then I need to go to the Playstation Store I assume so I can buy journey time. Go to Play Station Store. [TS]
01:12:35 ◼ ► Well you need to do another update. Are you freaking kidding me I just did a system. No you need to do a store update. [TS]
01:12:41 ◼ ► OK well now I have to download the sixty five make update and install it that hook easily and I want to have two hours. [TS]
01:12:49 ◼ ► No idea why it was connected via Eastern MOCA bridge and then all the way up to the router. [TS]
01:12:55 ◼ ► I have thirty five thirty five Internet I have no idea what the brain is a bad piece in this chain was. [TS]
01:13:03 ◼ ► Go back in time and look at all the webcomics they were claimed others exact thing. [TS]
01:13:13 ◼ ► or three hours after I connect the Playstation to the Internet which I should say before I connected it to the Internet. [TS]
01:13:24 ◼ ► I plugged in I put a Blu ray in the drive it played it and I was happy but then I connected it to the Internet [TS]
01:13:33 ◼ ► So anyway so I do the system update that takes like half an hour an hour I do the store update that's takes an hour [TS]
01:13:41 ◼ ► I'm all excited with myself then and I'm going to purchase it and it says OK you're going to pay with such [TS]
01:13:47 ◼ ► and such credit card which was my parents' credit card. Well I don't want to do that. [TS]
01:13:52 ◼ ► No I don't want to do that so it says OK well you can't buy the game again if you had talked to me first [TS]
01:14:00 ◼ ► An optical disk and then you were stuck in and the drivers are playing it probably wouldn't at first [TS]
01:14:11 ◼ ► and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to get it to allow me to put in my own frickin credit card number so [TS]
01:14:24 ◼ ► and just Google how the after you've change your credit card number in the Play Station one why is that the fallback [TS]
01:14:39 ◼ ► but whatever the credit card number was which I called my dad and confirmed was the correct number. [TS]
01:14:44 ◼ ► He indicated that the Play Station would not accept which might have been an expiration date issue [TS]
01:14:59 ◼ ► or dad's account I guess I should say go into its like Account Settings and billing settings. [TS]
01:15:09 ◼ ► When I go to go to the billing settings it says what your password so I enter the password that my dad has given to me. [TS]
01:15:17 ◼ ► This is from his house I'm at my house he goes to the Web site enters the exact same password Oh everything works [TS]
01:15:22 ◼ ► magically So we do that whole dance for like half an hour trying to figure out how the crap to get me in to the point [TS]
01:15:46 ◼ ► and I think did so quicker than the damn store update even though journey was like half a gig in the store it was fifty [TS]
01:15:55 ◼ ► and I thought the play journey dedicated to installing it did not play it on the same day that you download. [TS]
01:16:00 ◼ ► Just take it day like and again this is all happened so this is all happening last night. [TS]
01:16:04 ◼ ► I didn't know if I would have time to do all this tonight I have a serious urgency because I really want to talk about [TS]
01:16:17 ◼ ► but anyway eventually I finally get to the point that I can start journey and I played it and I liked it. [TS]
01:16:38 ◼ ► and the reason I recommend people take a day is not so much because like oh the Playstation always takes a day to [TS]
01:16:43 ◼ ► install anything is because the people I'm tying to play journey if they haven't already played it. [TS]
01:16:47 ◼ ► They're probably either not gamers or don't have a Playstation three which means they're going to be to borrow one. [TS]
01:16:52 ◼ ► Which is worse when it's like someone else's account and as you were being honored as your dad's [TS]
01:17:00 ◼ ► If you have a Playstation and use it all the time yet still those annoying updates and still frequently [TS]
01:17:06 ◼ ► but you don't have like seventeen of them queued up like my Playstation three right now is completely up to date with [TS]
01:17:13 ◼ ► and a place to store I go right into the store I buy it everything's all set up I have money in my play there's an [TS]
01:17:21 ◼ ► and play so the experience for people who haven't used a Playstation three all the time. [TS]
01:17:26 ◼ ► Still not ideal but it's much better that used to be to give an example way back in the early days. [TS]
01:17:34 ◼ ► Different thing would be paralyzed by downloading something like Oh just like the store was yesterday well that's like [TS]
01:17:40 ◼ ► more of an update on thing like you just buy a game has like was down on the game I'm going to play something else [TS]
01:17:49 ◼ ► and Playstation four is even better in that you can start playing the game before it even downloads because one of the [TS]
01:17:53 ◼ ► big features they tout because they're you know they have learned their lesson essentially all the things you complain [TS]
01:18:00 ◼ ► Play Station four to make it not be that terrible. This is STILL have a giant loud fan all the time. [TS]
01:18:07 ◼ ► The fan even on the slim one there and I haven't tried the current model which is the one even smaller than this one [TS]
01:18:15 ◼ ► but you can hear the optical drive more originally not a problem with a lot of games [TS]
01:18:25 ◼ ► but I mean the update issues are still a problem in that there are frequent updates [TS]
01:18:31 ◼ ► and no matter how smooth you make the update process an hour quickly it downloads if you're doing an O. S. [TS]
01:18:37 ◼ ► and it's frustrating if those come out more than if those come out more frequently than you play essentially every time [TS]
01:18:46 ◼ ► and that's what happened with this one is my my parents definitely use the Playstation as a Blu ray player [TS]
01:18:54 ◼ ► and to my knowledge when it's in their own house it's connected I to be even better there or their wife and I [TS]
01:18:59 ◼ ► but they never do things like go to the store for example to buy anything. The Playstation Store. [TS]
01:19:05 ◼ ► So you're exactly right that in my case I was set up for a complete and utter pain [TS]
01:19:10 ◼ ► and suffering because they don't do the sorts of things that I was trying to do even early on there was a place just [TS]
01:19:18 ◼ ► I mean that sort of settle down and you know you didn't keep adding updates that the like [TS]
01:19:22 ◼ ► and general I like I would rather have more frequent small updates than have to wait till I get to our thing every once [TS]
01:19:27 ◼ ► in a while because I don't play the games on it that often these days I don't even use it for its like media streaming [TS]
01:19:34 ◼ ► capabilities because I have all sorts of other solutions mostly involving the phonology to do my media streaming I [TS]
01:19:41 ◼ ► and there's an update factored into the time I'm going to play I don't say OK I'm going to dedicate a half an hour [TS]
01:19:46 ◼ ► and you know I assume is going to be there because the last time I turn the thing on was like you know three weeks ago. [TS]
01:19:54 ◼ ► but for example my Tivo I know the new version if you go so far out but the update I keep going you know. [TS]
01:20:00 ◼ ► Updates like they roll it out slowly I want the update now so I like software updates. [TS]
01:20:04 ◼ ► This is one of those things that like I think it contributes substantially to game consuls now being so unappealing to [TS]
01:20:13 ◼ ► the mass market like so it's like there are to really enjoy a game console. You have to be extremely dedicated to it. [TS]
01:20:19 ◼ ► This is one of the reasons they've lost casual gaming as like a main market because like if you're a casual gamer the [TS]
01:20:30 ◼ ► Well I know but like it's still way better than a P.C. Which is like the you know the it's all a spectrum. [TS]
01:20:36 ◼ ► Oh sure but you know compared to like in the olden days if you hadn't any answer Janice's you turn around [TS]
01:20:40 ◼ ► and you start playing the game and if you can turn on a form of Doesn't matter is just Arthur [TS]
01:20:46 ◼ ► and the benefits are that if you bought an original Playstation three when you first got it it was crappy [TS]
01:20:57 ◼ ► and getting new capabilities two years down the line whereas you got your Playstation it did get better over time so [TS]
01:21:02 ◼ ► What I got I got the memory pack thing for the in sixty four I thought and he asked at the end sixty four [TS]
01:21:08 ◼ ► and that's a hardware upgrade not a software upgrade but like I mean I'm just being silly [TS]
01:21:12 ◼ ► and then sixty four had no fans and their controllers didn't get their hands ugly Well that's debatable [TS]
01:21:20 ◼ ► but let me read parts of that here your your thoughts on the game not listening to this section of the after dark if [TS]
01:21:30 ◼ ► you have not played journey because we will spoil the spoil the entire game for you all Journey spoiler conditions [TS]
01:21:35 ◼ ► Marco is allowed to listen because he doesn't care to be seen as wife play both played it [TS]
01:21:45 ◼ ► OK So the first impression I have won't let me back up just a smidge I thought it was like some sort of side scroller [TS]
01:21:52 ◼ ► which I'm sure you know I know that I'm glad you thought that I know that's extremely ignorant of me [TS]
01:22:01 ◼ ► So I lie would lie would rather have you be a great I wish you knew nothing about it. [TS]
01:22:04 ◼ ► So the first couple of impressions I had while the first thing I wrote down was that the soundtrack was good [TS]
01:22:12 ◼ ► and then by the end of the game I upgraded it to incredible because I thought the soundtrack was on believe that if you [TS]
01:22:19 ◼ ► can buy an i Tunes It is one of the best soundtracks ever made Haas and wintery is amazing. [TS]
01:22:28 ◼ ► The second thing I had written down in was basically my second impression was that it was visually very big especially [TS]
01:22:33 ◼ ► when you know what it was going to be a side scroller the world in which you play is quite a bit larger than I had [TS]
01:22:49 ◼ ► The other thing was I was within about five or ten minutes I started seeing other people [TS]
01:22:57 ◼ ► and I wasn't I wasn't one hundred percent sure if those were what is it what is the term N.P.C.S. or For actual humans. [TS]
01:23:11 ◼ ► But the way one or two people I'd seen they behaved in such a way that I I couldn't really tell. [TS]
01:23:28 ◼ ► And this is despite the fact that you knew that there was a possibility you could see other people in the game. Yes. [TS]
01:23:33 ◼ ► And so I thought like the background knowledge I had made me think these were actual people. [TS]
01:23:42 ◼ ► and there was at first there was nothing that I saw that convinced me that this was a human being. [TS]
01:23:47 ◼ ► I think people who don't play games a lot have much more faith in computer control players than I don't think that [TS]
01:23:54 ◼ ► anyone who plays video games all the time can immediately distinguish a human from an AI because they are just so. [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► No in games. Yeah well you know I mean it's been a long time since I played these sorts of games but in any case. [TS]
01:24:05 ◼ ► So I went through I don't know the first I'll call it level which I don't mean that dismissively [TS]
01:24:11 ◼ ► but I went to the first level or two and eventually I got well firstly I realize that this was a puzzle game [TS]
01:24:17 ◼ ► and to me having played Monument Valley before this it felt vaguely similar to Monument Valley although clearly a very [TS]
01:24:28 ◼ ► And again I don't mean that to be offensive I apologize to you John if there isn't anyone else that really likes [TS]
01:24:35 ◼ ► but that's what I thought I was you know this kind of Monument Valley there's puzzles there kind of self-explanatory I [TS]
01:24:43 ◼ ► The only sort of tutorial or help was occasionally a little outline or kind of overlay of the controller came up [TS]
01:24:49 ◼ ► and told you to either push or hold something. But anyway after a couple of stages levels what have you. [TS]
01:24:55 ◼ ► I ended up kind of going through a level with somebody and I didn't pay close enough attention to see that [TS]
01:25:06 ◼ ► when they spoke if you will if that symbol was the same symbol I saw two or three levels later [TS]
01:25:16 ◼ ► and what I did find however was that I I really wanted to see where this was going and be cooperative [TS]
01:25:25 ◼ ► and the indication I got from kind of body language for lack of a better description was that this other person also [TS]
01:25:33 ◼ ► and so there were a couple of levels like one where you kind of got an A not to describe it [TS]
01:25:38 ◼ ► but there was like a center column and you had to go around different pedestals around the outside [TS]
01:25:45 ◼ ► OK And so I don't I don't look at it move on it at one point we kind of got separated [TS]
01:26:00 ◼ ► Well I think I have no idea who this person is I'm not even one hundred percent convinced it is a person I think it's a [TS]
01:26:06 ◼ ► Your motion ship was activated by motion ship had indeed activated it because your you know it's because your Play [TS]
01:26:23 ◼ ► Finally I made a reference that you bombed on her you know I don't buy monitors this [TS]
01:26:35 ◼ ► or is that it might have hardware is a part of we never he didn't know you just can't be wrong. [TS]
01:26:41 ◼ ► Act like I finally got you wrong on something. Anyway let's concentrate on the facts here. But you're right. [TS]
01:26:49 ◼ ► So anyway so I realized I was kind of sad about it and then eventually like a level [TS]
01:26:54 ◼ ► or two later I wound up being next to another person and it very well could have been a totally different person [TS]
01:27:01 ◼ ► but again because I wasn't paying close enough attention to the little symbol that that came up when they spoke. [TS]
01:27:14 ◼ ► and it just after the game was over to occur to me that that is a really peculiar reaction in motional investment I got [TS]
01:27:24 ◼ ► from something that I wasn't even unequivocally convinced was indeed a human being. [TS]
01:27:34 ◼ ► but either way I was I was really taken aback by how emotional I got about trying to get through this with my buddy. [TS]
01:27:48 ◼ ► Yes I believe so but we got separated for a long time and I don't know if we finished together [TS]
01:27:53 ◼ ► and I think of that as like as you go on the levels become sort of more fraught with danger [TS]
01:28:01 ◼ ► and it's like if you're with someone in the early kind of playing around levels then you know that's that's one thing [TS]
01:28:13 ◼ ► when those like creepy shooter kill you preacher guy things came that scared the piss out of me and I wasn't. [TS]
01:28:33 ◼ ► and the what he called the incomparable observer talking returning as we address these very issues that's the whole [TS]
01:28:39 ◼ ► thing about the game. You don't know there's no life meter There's no heart right. [TS]
01:28:46 ◼ ► but there is no there is no established gameplay mechanic where you are where you're sure can I die can I not die. [TS]
01:28:55 ◼ ► Does one hit kill me if I have you know the only thing you have going for you is like if I fall from a height will I [TS]
01:29:03 ◼ ► and you have the butterflies of pretty much are not going to die from a fall but everything else is up for grabs [TS]
01:29:09 ◼ ► when something does threaten you the game has not established up front rules that make you confident that you know how [TS]
01:29:17 ◼ ► much life do I have are you know can I can I get hurt or can I die. OK it was my abilities. [TS]
01:29:24 ◼ ► and I should also go back I forgot to mention I was looking at my notes that developing some sort of like a language [TS]
01:29:36 ◼ ► and I'm not sure if we really succeeded in developing a you know making air quotes language [TS]
01:29:41 ◼ ► but it was weird like does just saying it like just just just hitting what is that circle to like do a momentary ping [TS]
01:29:54 ◼ ► and so on like blabbering is that happy is that said if I do the hold the circle thing. [TS]
01:30:00 ◼ ► Do the like really loud shouty thing is that happy yours. Did you figure out how to sit down. [TS]
01:30:07 ◼ ► You probably saw your companion sit down perhaps I want to be fair at how you yourself could sit down at like the end [TS]
01:30:14 ◼ ► Now I didn't know that they are like at this point if you see someone in the game chances are good that it's someone [TS]
01:30:18 ◼ ► who's played the game multiple times before and they're playing it again and they would know how to do that. [TS]
01:30:23 ◼ ► That's something you can do one of the one of the you don't have a lot of choices for actions the game that you can [TS]
01:30:27 ◼ ► move you can press your little circle button you can you know you can sing you can fly you can also sit [TS]
01:30:37 ◼ ► So anyway so I get to the snow area and again the way they any time I play a game which is rare to begin with [TS]
01:30:46 ◼ ► and discovery is how they teach you to play the game and I feel like Monument Valley is a great example of this. [TS]
01:30:57 ◼ ► and you have to stand behind a little pedestal things that was really neat because it was hard enough that it took me a [TS]
01:31:04 ◼ ► second to think about what am I going to do here but it was easy enough that it was pretty quickly obvious. [TS]
01:31:23 ◼ ► and journey is at a low enough level where there's not this big expectation of gaming knowledge to get through because [TS]
01:31:27 ◼ ► you don't want to interrupt sort of the flow of the game the point of the game is not like a text adventure like you [TS]
01:31:34 ◼ ► and figure out something really obscure to you know like the Hitchhiker's Guide text adventure like the whole point of [TS]
01:31:42 ◼ ► and if you get hung up on things that have to do with the game even if it's the puzzles in the games that sort of [TS]
01:31:47 ◼ ► interrupting the flight it's not that type of game so I'm glad like that's you're looking for a little bit of challenge [TS]
01:31:52 ◼ ► but I think more of the challenge should be you know emotional investment in your relationship with this other thing in [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► Until like they put it up right in front of the beginning of the game they show your big friggin mountain with a light [TS]
01:32:04 ◼ ► and they've got a title it's pretty clear what you're doing in the game like that so they never had to ask you [TS]
01:32:08 ◼ ► when the game started was it clear to you what you were supposed to be doing in the game. [TS]
01:32:12 ◼ ► Yes with an asterisk at the end it was clear to me that I wanted to step into the light which made me wonder is this [TS]
01:32:22 ◼ ► but I remember like you know in the beginning of the game you just start the game up like does the title sequence like [TS]
01:32:27 ◼ ► I guess the game is called Journey so you're obviously probably going to be going on a journey. [TS]
01:32:30 ◼ ► But other than that do you know where you were going maybe not why but where I figured I was going towards that way. [TS]
01:32:36 ◼ ► Yes Now right now what I will say though is at the various like checkpoints within a level where you look at a mural [TS]
01:32:44 ◼ ► and the like cut scenes where the exposed more of that tapestry looking thing I totally missed the point of all of that [TS]
01:32:55 ◼ ► That's a shame because they're trying to tell a story I mean that's the thing about well that's what I realized late [TS]
01:33:04 ◼ ► Well I mean not just the tapestries that you find it likely that the cut scenes between levels where they show more in [TS]
01:33:08 ◼ ► tapestry style I guess that you mentioned earlier that you know they're just in the very beginning like the control on [TS]
01:33:15 ◼ ► There's no text in this game and you don't notice unless until to point out you have to [TS]
01:33:19 ◼ ► but there is no text which is great for localization but you're not going to say that the reason they did it [TS]
01:33:23 ◼ ► but it's an awesome like extra bonus pool yeah right nothing to localize. But there's no text in the game. [TS]
01:33:28 ◼ ► Everything is explained through I mean the note you can't type to people you can only do a little thing with your [TS]
01:33:34 ◼ ► The cut things don't have subtitles there's no no one speaks at any point of the murals tell the story through pictures [TS]
01:33:39 ◼ ► so do the cut scene so does everything in the entire game until the very end and the great sequence right [TS]
01:33:56 ◼ ► Just like life just like life because everybody dies K.Z. All men are more and that's that's fair. But a great game. [TS]
01:34:04 ◼ ► I mean that's part of that's part of that's part of your journey right. That's kind of you know I mean I did. [TS]
01:34:11 ◼ ► Did you feel like you had failed at that point because I think yes I think that I think that is an intentional natural [TS]
01:34:16 ◼ ► feeling because if you are not spoiled and don't know this captain happens you feel like boy haven't gone astray [TS]
01:34:21 ◼ ► or any advantage by the way did you get through the underground part with your scarf interactive did you get you know [TS]
01:34:26 ◼ ► didn't I guess we got bitten once or twice but I believe it just took a section of the scarf. [TS]
01:34:31 ◼ ► Really Were you trying to hide with your friend with you anywhere you both trying to hide. [TS]
01:34:40 ◼ ► and I think we both made it through although I definitely had more scarf than he did at the end of it [TS]
01:34:45 ◼ ► but it wasn't very clear to me the correct mechanism to hide I just kind of ran away from a little spotlight anything [TS]
01:34:54 ◼ ► Yeah I mean like what they try to do with the jump scare and the underground level like the [TS]
01:34:58 ◼ ► when the thing first comes out they want to establish that you know I mean it's like a little kid that why should I be [TS]
01:35:06 ◼ ► That's why I was very scared and they seem menacing it's dark it's scary music or whatever [TS]
01:35:13 ◼ ► Don't worry there is a system as you go back through and play and you can see that they have they're activated [TS]
01:35:22 ◼ ► but like the whole thing is the jump scare a supposed to be like we don't have to explain how this game works do you. [TS]
01:35:29 ◼ ► and the two things you have in your head is I'm going to journey I have to get to this place. [TS]
01:35:36 ◼ ► but the levels kind of guide you like look I came from here I'm going to their big scary thing is between me [TS]
01:35:41 ◼ ► and there I have to get there without big scary things seeing me so it's sort of a hide and seek that game right. [TS]
01:35:45 ◼ ► It is not rocket science and they're just trying to sort of at a base level let's let you know what you have to do [TS]
01:35:52 ◼ ► and let you understand that you want to do that in a way that does not bring you in contact with the thing that just [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► So eventually I died and then I followed the light and then I made it to the game and then the big reveal happens [TS]
01:36:06 ◼ ► or what I consider to be the big reveal which was a new I don't recall the words that they used you probably do. [TS]
01:36:12 ◼ ► But these are the people that you encountered while you were playing the game and there were like five [TS]
01:36:16 ◼ ► and that was an aha moment in so far as I realized OK that was definitely a real person that I had some modicum of a [TS]
01:36:28 ◼ ► but it was also an aha moment in so far as oh that might not have been my one body that I had that I thought I was [TS]
01:36:37 ◼ ► or six different people that I was interacting with for most of the game companions met along the way by the way [TS]
01:36:48 ◼ ► when they first before you sort of team up with somebody chances are good that you caught glimpses of other people who [TS]
01:36:56 ◼ ► when you see a long list of things is not that it was a different person every single thing is that you encountered [TS]
01:37:05 ◼ ► and that was a thing only way to know for sure is to get looked a little symbols which do vary from game to game in [TS]
01:37:12 ◼ ► Yeah which I realized once I saw that screen and I started to wonder like Have I seen that same symbol or not [TS]
01:37:28 ◼ ► After you died and the screenwriter whatever to doing the game was over at that point. [TS]
01:37:33 ◼ ► Yes and it was clear that the game was not over what do you think was going on there. I wasn't really clear like. [TS]
01:37:41 ◼ ► So here's the thing. I never had done well in English class or with movies at looking at deep symbolism. [TS]
01:37:50 ◼ ► and I knew that it was like the big white guys right now I don't mean that is a racial statement I mean the white the [TS]
01:38:09 ◼ ► and they don't think they're like you can understand that I think entirely on a surface emotional level [TS]
01:38:17 ◼ ► Like I know what I took from it but like how did you put it this way nor who cares like what you think happened. [TS]
01:38:29 ◼ ► I'm happy for the most part that I didn't actually fail because I knew for several reasons one I didn't want to admit [TS]
01:38:38 ◼ ► I didn't know I knew I wouldn't have the time to like play it over and try to do better. [TS]
01:38:43 ◼ ► But also I felt a little bit just because I was like man what the hell I thought that I was actually dead. [TS]
01:38:52 ◼ ► What the hell does a bit of events where were you with were you with a companion in the snow now. [TS]
01:38:58 ◼ ► Not a tap not it in the beginning yes but they eventually they eventually collapse before I did. [TS]
01:39:04 ◼ ► But no but you're with them going up the Big Hill just a day. They collapsed before you did. Correct. [TS]
01:39:09 ◼ ► And so when you when you got into the after part where they were still with your no no. [TS]
01:39:14 ◼ ► All right so you go and that's why did you feel and how did you feel as you went through that last part [TS]
01:39:21 ◼ ► Yeah I mean at that point if memory serves it's basically just mashing forward on the analog stick until you get to the [TS]
01:39:29 ◼ ► I felt like I was probably supposed to be more into what was actually happening at that point [TS]
01:39:36 ◼ ► but it was at this point that I was starting to reflect on what had just happened in the game [TS]
01:39:41 ◼ ► and the other thing I will note is I don't remember if it was before or after death I want to say it was after death [TS]
01:39:51 ◼ ► and you have to keep walking forward for like a freak an hour and I was I was really confused whether [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► Right Thing if I'm just an impatient jerk or what the crap you're overthinking the case [TS]
01:40:06 ◼ ► and I encourage you to play it again in a more mellow environment it is not a lot of blood pressure so much pressure I [TS]
01:40:12 ◼ ► know how much you think highly of it I wanted to make sure I got everything I want. [TS]
01:40:19 ◼ ► or whatever I mean if they had issues on her for her to play through as well anyway I get it it's never going to be for [TS]
01:40:28 ◼ ► and for a lot of other people it just because like it's like if you see a movie you never heard anything about [TS]
01:40:35 ◼ ► and you go see it like it's not going to be the same because you've heard all these people talking about it ever [TS]
01:40:40 ◼ ► and like versus just being like this is a new game just came out that I let me give it a try [TS]
01:40:45 ◼ ► and being you having your socks knocked off and even if you play this on day one like as I said to make you go play it. [TS]
01:40:55 ◼ ► and if you have a first play through where you either don't meet anybody or meet people who come [TS]
01:41:03 ◼ ► and like you know all those chances are good that people are going to be sort of coming [TS]
01:41:07 ◼ ► and going versus trying to play to play through it as someone go who's going to stay with you how well they're going to [TS]
01:41:22 ◼ ► I can expect this game to hit people the same way it hit me because the way I played it in the environment I played it [TS]
01:41:27 ◼ ► in and my mindset and just the way I take in games like this is very different than people don't play games [TS]
01:41:37 ◼ ► and I think then if you can get yourself to be less cerebral you can have a different experience of the game [TS]
01:41:42 ◼ ► but you're never going to have another first experience of the game so that this was your first experience [TS]
01:41:50 ◼ ► and certainly I was struck by how emotional I got about being friends with my buddy and I and that may sound you know. [TS]
01:42:09 ◼ ► And when he or she eventually collapsed in the snow I was pretty sad about it and I was really happy [TS]
01:42:16 ◼ ► when I saw that what it was what did you say companions that you met along the way or something like that. [TS]
01:42:21 ◼ ► When I saw that knew for a fact that that was a person that made me really happy. I definitely really liked the game. [TS]
01:42:27 ◼ ► I feel like the best analogy I can make is that I feel the same way about this in that I did about the movie Inception [TS]
01:42:36 ◼ ► and if you give me a second to explain I saw the whole I don't like that movie I know I don't like [TS]
01:42:43 ◼ ► and what I mean by that is I really like Inception a lot and we can argue another day as to whether or not I should [TS]
01:42:55 ◼ ► The problem I have with inception was I didn't see it until like a year or so maybe even two years after it came out [TS]
01:43:01 ◼ ► and everyone I knew was like oh my god inception is the best movie ever walks up to the inception of the best movie [TS]
01:43:08 ◼ ► ever You've gotta see it it's so good and I was coming or whatever guys I don't I don't care. [TS]
01:43:13 ◼ ► And so I actually went into an inception kind of wanting to dislike it which I did not do a journey well despite the [TS]
01:43:35 ◼ ► and I enjoyed journey enough that if I happened to come across a couple hours of spare time I probably played again [TS]
01:43:41 ◼ ► just to see see it all over and pay a little closer attention to like the murals or tapestries [TS]
01:43:45 ◼ ► or what have you that I would say if you do it again go into it in a lesser evil mindset. [TS]
01:43:49 ◼ ► Go into it more as a sort of motional sensory experience and worry less about the ciphering the plot [TS]
01:43:54 ◼ ► or worry about anything like that because really I mean you've got the whole campaign ship thing like that is [TS]
01:44:00 ◼ ► Big part of this game you got at least fifty percent of the people making this game we're trying to educate the other [TS]
01:44:05 ◼ ► part is sort of the journey aspect of it like that you could get just playing by yourself even if there was no other [TS]
01:44:11 ◼ ► players this is other part of the experience that they're hoping to bring you through. But with the campaign thing. [TS]
01:44:18 ◼ ► Speaking of the mechanics are made out of cared about or picked up like the sitting when you were in the snowy bits [TS]
01:44:25 ◼ ► and you're kind of scarf was freezing and stuff did you realize that when you touch each other you sort of glow [TS]
01:44:31 ◼ ► and light up and that fights off the cold and it sort of urges you to huddle together over that mechanic not clean now. [TS]
01:44:44 ◼ ► when you're going uphill in that you're like if you have established I had had it with your body. [TS]
01:44:49 ◼ ► I've now essentially physical closeness of like being a way to ward off the frost which robs you [TS]
01:45:01 ◼ ► but just you know that the whole freezing textures encroaching on your outfit if you stay close to each other you can [TS]
01:45:08 ◼ ► when you're going up that final hill with that established pattern you will be huddled up close to each other because [TS]
01:45:14 ◼ ► that's what you've been doing for the whole snow levels like oh guys really cold we need to huddle together home [TS]
01:45:18 ◼ ► together eventually stops working on that hill that's you know eventually just freeze to death and die [TS]
01:45:25 ◼ ► when you have this established sort of closeness type of thing that has been we've been saving each other thus far [TS]
01:45:33 ◼ ► and now saving each other isn't working and you have got the same thing with you were separate [TS]
01:45:41 ◼ ► but it's like yeah I would say you would think this is a game does not reward repeated platers because little surprise [TS]
01:45:55 ◼ ► It's all true now right you know everything's going to happen and yet as I think to fool a test. [TS]
01:46:05 ◼ ► Maybe not immediately maybe let it stew for a while I would definitely buy the soundtrack because if I have I like [TS]
01:46:15 ◼ ► or two tracks on the soundtrack thrown into your random i Tunes Next see if you don't mind when they come on [TS]
01:46:20 ◼ ► and here are finally my final question about the game and faithfully proud of me. Did you watch the credits. [TS]
01:46:32 ◼ ► and my sister in law who happened to be over at the time not the right environment. [TS]
01:46:45 ◼ ► Yeah I do not do if it does I don't watch the credits in theater mostly because I want to get out of the theater [TS]
01:46:51 ◼ ► and it's not like you have to because a stupid scene is the end of the credits which drives me nuts and credit [TS]
01:46:57 ◼ ► but for video games I always watch the ending credits because videogame credits unless that's just a bunch of words [TS]
01:47:03 ◼ ► going were black but even then I'll see if there's any new and credits in general are not interactive [TS]
01:47:12 ◼ ► So next time you finish turning I mean I encourage you to watch through the entire menu muster because you saw the [TS]
01:47:19 ◼ ► but if you watch the whole I mean it's if you just like the traditional thing is to show you all the places that you've [TS]
01:47:26 ◼ ► been to make you feel like you've accomplished something are going to time is amazingly good at that to show you all [TS]
01:47:32 ◼ ► the people you've met all the places you've been the effect you've had on the world journey. [TS]
01:47:35 ◼ ► It shows you all the places you've been in reverse order all of them in different environments with other people in the [TS]
01:47:44 ◼ ► It's got great music during the credits nicely composed with the text you get to see the names of the handful of people [TS]
01:47:49 ◼ ► who made this amazing game and then at the end you get taken pains and along the way [TS]
01:47:53 ◼ ► and I transitioned into the menu again. Oh yes start a new journey or whatever you know the one thing. [TS]
01:48:03 ◼ ► when you mentioned the credits is that I noticed in what I had been programmed by the late ninety's to think of as a [TS]
01:48:13 ◼ ► when bridges were forming out of the like big stars for lack a better way of describing them I realized I could still [TS]
01:48:19 ◼ ► jump in move in see my character jumping in moving like you know the Nintendo sixty four era that we're going to cut [TS]
01:48:28 ◼ ► Now you can like still move around while that's going on which I was pretty impressed by that I'm sure for you that was [TS]
01:48:33 ◼ ► like completely unremarkable but I was like oh I'll go and press by the larger world and journey. [TS]
01:48:41 ◼ ► when I had tried the N sixty four because I had not played a console since like the Nintendo Super Nintendo things had [TS]
01:48:48 ◼ ► If you're impressed by the large open world in Journey rest assured that actual open world games are just WAY bigger. [TS]
01:48:54 ◼ ► You know so and so yeah I really did like the game I would play it again if I could find a couple hours to do so [TS]
01:49:05 ◼ ► and now the only problem I have is that I need to read basically everything you've ever written on the Internet [TS]
01:49:11 ◼ ► and listen to basically every pod cast you've ever been a part of in order to catch up one short article is like two [TS]
01:49:17 ◼ ► pages long it appeared in the magazine it's on my site you can just read it right there. [TS]
01:49:21 ◼ ► There's a pod cast which is shorter than the one we're doing right now and then and I love them [TS]
01:49:27 ◼ ► and I think that's about it. Just and then the after dark thing with depth which is even shorter. [TS]
01:49:35 ◼ ► Q I'm up it's not that long you know in this time I have run an ALTER TABLE sixty three bugs sort of support e-mails [TS]
01:49:48 ◼ ► So the punishment for not playing journey when you when you were able you were all set to play journey for so long [TS]
01:49:54 ◼ ► and just wouldn't do it. So now you had to listen to several of the conversations about another once but twice. [TS]
01:50:00 ◼ ► Actually didn't didn't even listen winter was I guess you couldn't because you know that one's at sea now and K.C. [TS]
01:50:04 ◼ ► See your reward for doing your homework is John telling you to do it again telling you you have to tell test to play [TS]
01:50:12 ◼ ► again but she did and she enjoyed it so there you go making people happy market what are you doing. [TS]
01:50:21 ◼ ► Yes I think the top rated title not suitable for any purpose is pretty darn good. I do like that one. [TS]
01:50:28 ◼ ► Marco you're the want to chase market we need to give your middle course on title casing. [TS]
01:50:33 ◼ ► I would say about to make fun of the person who put one is for spam about their inability to Title Case I look to the [TS]
01:50:38 ◼ ► right author Marco you know what the title cases I can give you command line scriptable turning out to go to hide OK [TS]
01:50:45 ◼ ► and it'll give you you don't just capitalize every word I know there are confusing rules [TS]
01:50:53 ◼ ► However I'm following precedent that we have always capitalized every word for all of our titles. [TS]
01:51:01 ◼ ► If you know the one the dives in the titles that we not only not lately usually see lately it's not it's not a [TS]
01:51:06 ◼ ► precedent as the people establish our style guide to be established early mistakes not just because we didn't read well. [TS]
01:51:17 ◼ ► I also just you know just to do like this that we're going to subtly drive you crazy over time. [TS]
01:51:26 ◼ ► and look at the Instapaper one point of screams out so I go God how did I even ship that these titles to be like this. [TS]
01:51:31 ◼ ► Later in your life you notice who Joe underscore underscore underscore underscore who suggested not suitable for any [TS]
01:51:42 ◼ ► That looks weird to me like why isn't any then lower case doesn't make sense Don't argue just follow the rules. [TS]
01:51:49 ◼ ► but the rules about like you supposed to put the period inside the quotes at the end of the U.K. Versus the U.S. [TS]