00:00:00 ◼ ► When someone says something funny first and that we are ignorant of most or all get right on that. [TS]
00:00:06 ◼ ► Those another case where we got a bunch of feedback that I thought talk about something we had covered the previous [TS]
00:00:12 ◼ ► show but apparently we did not do a good enough job so if we don't get the job done the first time we'll go back [TS]
00:00:18 ◼ ► This was about three games and the topic came up when both of you had said that you would play video games [TS]
00:00:25 ◼ ► when you're younger and didn't play them as much now we talked about why that might be [TS]
00:00:28 ◼ ► and I talked about the average age of a gamer and I brought stats from the USA I think on the last show [TS]
00:00:33 ◼ ► and talk all about this and couple people wrote in to talk about the difference between people who play video games [TS]
00:00:44 ◼ ► Some people wrote in to say oh I just play a couple hours games now and then I certainly wouldn't call myself a gamer. [TS]
00:00:49 ◼ ► One of the best ones as I was Joe Lyon who wrote in to say a section from what he wrote having put in hundreds [TS]
00:00:55 ◼ ► or thousands of hours playing games over the past couple of years I by no means consider myself a gamer. [TS]
00:01:01 ◼ ► Tell him in a lot of people in the argument terms a time my God just play once in while not a big deal [TS]
00:01:10 ◼ ► or thousands of hours like him playing during the commute just obsessively playing games finishing games or whatever [TS]
00:01:15 ◼ ► but does not consider himself a gamer and the discussion was not about what I would call a self identified game [TS]
00:01:22 ◼ ► or it was just about the idea that you know the market that most people you know like you thought it was a common thing [TS]
00:01:28 ◼ ► that like you play games when you're younger and you didn't play them anymore as an adult. [TS]
00:01:32 ◼ ► Self identify gamer is a whole other ball of wax human as many people point out including Joe line like I watch T.V. [TS]
00:01:42 ◼ ► No it's not it's not like it's not the games you play is not how long you play them. [TS]
00:01:47 ◼ ► Identity is totally up to the person I would call myself a self identified what I would call myself a gamer Cerise [TS]
00:01:55 ◼ ► How many games I play how long I played and I guarantee I play games that last for less amount of clock time. [TS]
00:02:00 ◼ ► Then then almost anybody else who considers themselves a gamer so that's more of an identity in a cultural type thing [TS]
00:02:07 ◼ ► and it certainly has nothing to do with what we were discussing which was Is it common for people to play a lot of [TS]
00:02:13 ◼ ► and by going through the stats on gamers they discover that that's not the case that in fact there was [TS]
00:02:21 ◼ ► but one of the stats we've all of us like twice as many adult women play games as males under eighteen [TS]
00:02:27 ◼ ► and the average average gamer is like our age so it's very clear that the majority of the people who are playing games [TS]
00:02:41 ◼ ► but I always back you can you can you can just vamp for a sec and make a nice cut point and I'll add something in [TS]
00:02:48 ◼ ► but they have the other back and I will know you're never going to be able to make a reasonable out of this [TS]
00:03:09 ◼ ► Basically that the thing the message that we failed to get across was that the entire discussion was not about self [TS]
00:03:15 ◼ ► and I was not part of this feedback from July into that we needed to define the terms better if we did a bad job [TS]
00:03:21 ◼ ► but that's we were not talking about stuff that we're just talking about the phenomenon is common for people to play [TS]
00:03:28 ◼ ► when they're older regardless of during any of those times were they considered self-evident of high gamers [TS]
00:03:33 ◼ ► and like I said I don't think that tag has anything to do with any criteria you might bring up that you could measure [TS]
00:03:39 ◼ ► like how long you play what types of games you play how obsessed you are of the games I mean like that's more [TS]
00:03:50 ◼ ► Part of my den meis not that I watch television but part of my identity is that I play games. [TS]
00:04:00 ◼ ► So we also got a lot of feedback about our discussion what was really my source here because this discussion about [TS]
00:04:07 ◼ ► comics ology and in app purchase an apple in who's at fault who's on first What's on second I was on third [TS]
00:04:20 ◼ ► and I hope I get this I think it was right against Net Neutrality So this whole discussion about fast lean on the [TS]
00:04:27 ◼ ► and oh if Netflix is pumping a crud loaded data across Comcast pipes then you know what Netflix should probably have a [TS]
00:04:35 ◼ ► discount or maybe even pay more depending on who you ask and so can you address how this is either the same [TS]
00:04:43 ◼ ► It doesn't really matter whether the people who are sending the feedback were for against net neutrality [TS]
00:04:47 ◼ ► and in fact I think what they want wanted to say was that all those people who said that feedback I would guess the [TS]
00:04:53 ◼ ► real debate they want to have is about net neutrality because regardless of which side they are on the Apple thing what [TS]
00:05:04 ◼ ► and if you don't have the same opinion about both situations you're being inconsistent therefore you're wrong about one [TS]
00:05:08 ◼ ► and it doesn't really matter if I think you're wrong about Apple comics ology they were wrong about an editor Audi [TS]
00:05:13 ◼ ► or whatever they just want to see some consistency and I didn't like a lot of this is over Twitter [TS]
00:05:24 ◼ ► and for e-mails if they could we would address it on the show because like one or two [TS]
00:05:40 ◼ ► and how is that any different than the iris P's cutting a deal with Netflix or Amazon or anything like that [TS]
00:05:50 ◼ ► Some very important some less important or you can decide which ones you find more convincing. [TS]
00:05:55 ◼ ► The biggest and most important difference and what I tried to express and what are good I thought oh here's this. [TS]
00:06:00 ◼ ► Think way to express this is Apple doesn't sell access to the Internet. That was not convincing to anybody. [TS]
00:06:06 ◼ ► There's like so. So what what's different about the Internet and Apple selling access to its customers. [TS]
00:06:12 ◼ ► Give us a thirty percent cut we let you use our payment system and get access to our customers [TS]
00:06:17 ◼ ► and I wasn't about to try to explain in one hundred forty characters what difference between access to Apple's [TS]
00:06:23 ◼ ► customers and the Internet is but I will try to do so now. The Internet the Internet is that it's a series of tubes. [TS]
00:06:34 ◼ ► Yet by definition there is one internet anything you connect to the internet becomes part of the Internet the Internet [TS]
00:06:41 ◼ ► is the way we are all connected to each other there are not multiple internets there's not one not two there's not five. [TS]
00:06:48 ◼ ► and it connected to the internet it will become part of the Internet because every place in the Internet is reachable [TS]
00:06:56 ◼ ► Conceptually that's what the Internet is it's how we're all connected to each other. [TS]
00:07:02 ◼ ► That is very different than getting access to the customers of the second placed cell phone you know platform [TS]
00:07:12 ◼ ► or any other type of thing like that like maybe if Android didn't exist and I guess of Microsoft didn't also exist. [TS]
00:07:22 ◼ ► but I would say that even in that case the possibility of something coming up that would be similar to us like a vendor [TS]
00:07:30 ◼ ► didn't exist like well Google could enter the phone space and make their own operating system and platform [TS]
00:07:37 ◼ ► or Microsoft could write no one is saying well what about one competitor to the Internet comes along there's this whole [TS]
00:07:43 ◼ ► Internet thing could be you know replaced by just some hungry competitor comes up with the in the new Internet the [TS]
00:07:53 ◼ ► What about the I P V six Internet will come to replace the old Internet. That is not much of a possibility. [TS]
00:08:00 ◼ ► I think happening these days the Internet access is the the Internet itself is a very perhaps the only unique singular [TS]
00:08:13 ◼ ► Like I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the Internet is so different from the I was that store that doesn't [TS]
00:08:20 ◼ ► They're basically the same thing it's a bunch of people connected through tubes into each other you know. [TS]
00:08:27 ◼ ► The second part of this thing and this gets into the nitty gritty does net neutrality is in the United States. [TS]
00:08:33 ◼ ► Your choice for getting internet access are much more limited than your choice for a cell phone provider pretty much [TS]
00:08:38 ◼ ► anywhere in the United States can get an i Phone has the opportunity to if it's in they go for the i Phone they get a [TS]
00:08:44 ◼ ► phone that is team Mobile Prepaid they can you know get an Android phone you can get on one of my dumb phones like that. [TS]
00:08:53 ◼ ► and so forth no matter where you live the United States you have many different choices [TS]
00:09:03 ◼ ► and you will have one choice because there is constant pollination a lot of these places have local monopolies. [TS]
00:09:09 ◼ ► And the reason they're local monopolies these are the third reason in the United States anyway I don't know about the [TS]
00:09:14 ◼ ► but in the United States a lot of our Internet infrastructure was built essentially with taxpayer dollars these [TS]
00:09:20 ◼ ► broadband companies got billions of dollars in tax breaks in exchange for OK well we'll give you these tax breaks we'll [TS]
00:09:26 ◼ ► help you out here the government said as long as you build out your network to provide more people with access because [TS]
00:09:31 ◼ ► we have the government to decide it's for the good of the nation then more people have broadband access Therefore here [TS]
00:09:43 ◼ ► and in their particular local markets weren't just built by those via speeds they were built with taxpayer money [TS]
00:09:49 ◼ ► and they have been operating for many years in a way that is neutral to that where they don't decide you know who's [TS]
00:09:55 ◼ ► traffic so they sped up and slowed down based on who will pay them all. This I think makes the Internet. [TS]
00:10:02 ◼ ► It's complicated by the fact that of course I was asked our runs over the Internet [TS]
00:10:06 ◼ ► and if you want to think about that you can say well OK what if Comcast decides they want forty percent of every bridge [TS]
00:10:17 ◼ ► and I don't see any inconsistency in saying the internet this strange singular thing that in the United States is only [TS]
00:10:24 ◼ ► accessible to people through a single broadband I speak in many locations there has been a partially paid for by [TS]
00:10:29 ◼ ► taxpayer money and has operated in this sort of common carrier situation for many many years. [TS]
00:10:40 ◼ ► and put a link in the will put in the show notes the recent via hard video trying to explain that neutrality which is [TS]
00:10:47 ◼ ► kind of a boring weird thing to understand but she does these little things which he draws on a notepad [TS]
00:10:51 ◼ ► and talks over it and maybe will make it any clearer but at least you'll be entertained. [TS]
00:10:56 ◼ ► The fun thing about her example is the case you allude to when you watch the video. [TS]
00:11:00 ◼ ► The example she gives the way she tries to draw an analogy is that the customer who uses a lot like Netflix you know [TS]
00:11:06 ◼ ► it's like wow a huge amount of the traffic going through these high speeds Netflix uses the eyes these go the netbook [TS]
00:11:13 ◼ ► and say you know thirty percent our traffic is from your stupid movies why don't you pass some extra money otherwise [TS]
00:11:18 ◼ ► we'll throttle your bandwidth which is exactly the opposite of the situation that I was suggesting for Amazon [TS]
00:11:23 ◼ ► or at the App Store in general which is hey looks like you're selling twenty billion dollars worth of comic books. [TS]
00:11:30 ◼ ► We'll take less of a percentage if you if you sell more because we want people to drive more [TS]
00:11:37 ◼ ► I don't think the direction you're turning it makes much of a difference the bottom line is I think Apple should have [TS]
00:11:42 ◼ ► the right to set whatever terms it wants for the people who sell through that store [TS]
00:11:46 ◼ ► and I don't think there's anything magical about it being thirty percent for everybody [TS]
00:11:49 ◼ ► and as many people pointed out it's not thirty percent parody if you saw a commercial commercial physical product [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► Uniform and all I was suggesting was continue to make it not uniform come up with a different rate take larger [TS]
00:12:12 ◼ ► and bad things start to happen they can change their mind and couple kind of any time change the terms [TS]
00:12:18 ◼ ► and they control their own apps third is a private thing that happens over the Internet [TS]
00:12:25 ◼ ► and the only point where I can have the apple comics knowledge thing which they had chanced upon [TS]
00:12:28 ◼ ► and assurances for the most part the only feedback we got were the net neutrality ones [TS]
00:12:35 ◼ ► and people telling me that the App Store has to stay the way it is otherwise bad things will happen. [TS]
00:12:48 ◼ ► and to say that it was better for users this way they had not being able to buy comic books through the comic jab is [TS]
00:12:54 ◼ ► better for use and nobody argued that which makes me think that is a pretty slam dunk evern agrees that's worse. [TS]
00:12:59 ◼ ► So all the people arguing opposite are basically saying it's OK for things to be slightly worse than Apple's platform [TS]
00:13:04 ◼ ► and then the greater good like because they have to hold lying as if they give in now though to be giving in forever [TS]
00:13:10 ◼ ► and so forth I think that slippery slope angle would be more convincing if this is the first time this happened [TS]
00:13:15 ◼ ► and if this hadn't been the case on the App Store for years and Amazon had shown it is not going to budge [TS]
00:13:20 ◼ ► and I think the other point about the situation is that the way I think about it is is this a bigger problem for Apple [TS]
00:13:27 ◼ ► or Amazon if you know Amazon says OK we're going to make you buy everything through a website and apples [TS]
00:13:33 ◼ ► and get those out there who is that a bigger problem for us that have a bigger problem for Apple now that they're not [TS]
00:13:37 ◼ ► getting a thirty percent of anything because Apple selling or into the Web site or is it a bigger problem Amazon [TS]
00:13:42 ◼ ► and that people won't buy as many comics do they have to go to the stupid web site I think [TS]
00:13:46 ◼ ► and as I tried to argue last time it is a bigger problem for Apple because it makes Apple's product from worse and [TS]
00:13:55 ◼ ► and Amazon always has the excuse of well yeah from a little worse but hey if you don't like. [TS]
00:14:08 ◼ ► but their answer is so much more compelling than Apple's their answer is you should be buying the stupid i Pad anyway. [TS]
00:14:16 ◼ ► and if you can buy them right on a device by the way it's also cheaper than an i Pad Apple's answer is yes worse [TS]
00:14:22 ◼ ► but trust us we really need to hold the line on this because if we give in to Amazon the world will come to an end [TS]
00:14:30 ◼ ► and they kept using their mom the examples I'm just the messenger don't shoot me again it could be because their [TS]
00:14:39 ◼ ► and if I was not touch i Pads But anyway they were saying this happened on my moms i Pad [TS]
00:14:43 ◼ ► and i just put a shortcut to the you know to go to the Web site on her i Pad and she just goes that it's no problem [TS]
00:14:51 ◼ ► Another person said this happened about when the Kindle Store stopped having and in turn the web for the Web site. [TS]
00:15:00 ◼ ► And from that point on my mom always calls me when she wants to buy a book and I buy it for her [TS]
00:15:08 ◼ ► and then someone you know stopped even buying things because they said oh this is stupid it's broken now I'm not going [TS]
00:15:17 ◼ ► but I think the one person who said that that is not a big deal just go to the web link. [TS]
00:15:27 ◼ ► and I think after several years it's clear that Apple is not going to win this by holding strong [TS]
00:15:36 ◼ ► and making things worse for users with the expectation that with the argument that if you do anything else just the App [TS]
00:15:43 ◼ ► and it turns out that they still have total control Apple changed the rules at any time I think it's worth an [TS]
00:15:48 ◼ ► experiment especially to be a secret experiment where they have secret deals with Amazon and they call it off [TS]
00:15:53 ◼ ► and they have India isn't known to talk about it or ever like apples in the driver's seat here. [TS]
00:16:00 ◼ ► Well hold on though there was one of the point that that a few people pointed out that you know one of the reasons why [TS]
00:16:07 ◼ ► Amazon might not want to do apples in a purchase system has nothing to do with thirty percent cut [TS]
00:16:18 ◼ ► but I'm going to number of people pointing out specifics of why that's important to them. [TS]
00:16:22 ◼ ► So one of the biggest of course is they want your credit card information to be entered into Amazon. [TS]
00:16:31 ◼ ► and they want to they want your default behavior to be if you're going to buy something buy it from Amazon with one [TS]
00:16:37 ◼ ► And so for you to use an Apple system that's like that's one more customer than Amazon might not have using them. [TS]
00:16:50 ◼ ► and this is the does it become less possible with big name ebooks because of the agency deal but [TS]
00:16:59 ◼ ► and that's why if you go visit if you visit you know Amazon product pages for almost anything it's kind of unusual to [TS]
00:17:14 ◼ ► and you know they reserve the right on their app store to change the price of apps at will and stuff like that. [TS]
00:17:27 ◼ ► and they can't really do that at the kind of granularity and volume they would want to do it at [TS]
00:17:37 ◼ ► and again so it's all I think with Amazon it's much more about owning that transaction getting user behavior getting everyone [TS]
00:17:44 ◼ ► using Amazon and paying their Amazon I don't think even if Apple system was free I don't think Amazon would use. [TS]
00:17:51 ◼ ► Now it is Apple's fault for disallowing them from using their own that you know that's certainly something Apple could [TS]
00:18:03 ◼ ► Yeah I don't think I did I still don't think allowing alternate payment systems as reason I think anyone suggests that [TS]
00:18:09 ◼ ► a lot of people sent in email about this saying you know they all they should never allow altered Yeah they probably [TS]
00:18:15 ◼ ► should not alter payment systems like you can see how that could be chaos and terrible and everything [TS]
00:18:20 ◼ ► and if it's the case that all Amazon wants credit card numbers because Apple has way more credit cards Amazon does as a [TS]
00:18:25 ◼ ► home and to run a stat recently but it wasn't even close and you would think Amazon would have more credit cards [TS]
00:18:29 ◼ ► but apparently not. But if that's if that's the line in the sand and Amazon is making. [TS]
00:18:34 ◼ ► and I think it's even worse problem because it's like a what can we do in fact if we made it free they still wouldn't [TS]
00:18:39 ◼ ► buy like Amazon has things that Apple doesn't Amazon has a popular store where people buy tons of stuff Apple has a [TS]
00:18:51 ◼ ► and you know like it's a problem you know it's a similar situation always with Google Google has something that Apple [TS]
00:18:58 ◼ ► needs and Apple decided we're going to make our own which is a good strategic move because you know [TS]
00:19:03 ◼ ► when to rely on your your deadly enemy to be providing you with a sense of optionality but it's really hard [TS]
00:19:08 ◼ ► and Google really good at what it does an Apple tried to do some of the same stuff itself [TS]
00:19:13 ◼ ► What are they going to do now like it as a platform owner Apple has to figure this stuff out. [TS]
00:19:18 ◼ ► They can have a platform and say do everything our way but we're not to use anything regal him [TS]
00:19:23 ◼ ► and just everything's going to be a little bit worse like their job as a platform is to encourage a rich ecosystem of [TS]
00:19:30 ◼ ► and if everyone knows if you're going to buy stuff go to Amazon's platform if you're going to do anything with cloud [TS]
00:19:35 ◼ ► stuff go to Google's form but I guess anything else you know like this is Apple's problem long term [TS]
00:19:40 ◼ ► and I don't know what the solution is I'm just arguing for at this point being stubborn [TS]
00:19:46 ◼ ► and holding on for another three years as they've done with you know allowing you to purchase stuff inside applications [TS]
00:20:00 ◼ ► Since his violence had ninety percent market share then suddenly this is back and they have it on Google's problem. [TS]
00:20:08 ◼ ► Well they do have that kind of level of a lot of things like you know web browsing with purchase intent [TS]
00:20:13 ◼ ► and stuff like that like Apple the I was platform does represent itself way larger the installed base in things like [TS]
00:20:22 ◼ ► you know what percentage of people doing actual online purchasing of goods are using Apple stuff. [TS]
00:20:28 ◼ ► You know what percentage of people buying books online buying movies online you know that kind of stuff. [TS]
00:20:33 ◼ ► I bet Apple's platforms actually are big enough in those that Amazon for instance has to have [TS]
00:20:43 ◼ ► Well I don't I don't know they were broken down by how many purchases were through apps for us is how many were through [TS]
00:20:50 ◼ ► and stuff like I don't I don't know if it's broken down by Apple Amazon's perfectly happy to let you use your i Pad as [TS]
00:21:02 ◼ ► or is this not net neutrality debate because I feel like you kind of fluff that off well it's not the Internet that's [TS]
00:21:16 ◼ ► but if you look at the situation at my house today if I want to watch some content let's use Netflix as an example for [TS]
00:21:31 ◼ ► So somehow or another I need for rising to kind of orchestrate the exchange between Netflix and me in a similar vein. [TS]
00:21:40 ◼ ► If I have an i Phone and i want some content be it a comic or be it an app or whatever the case may be. [TS]
00:21:52 ◼ ► and I think what people are bothered by is at this point couldn't you make a reasonable argument. [TS]
00:22:00 ◼ ► At the same kind of common carrier stuff that applies to a risin Isn't that almost Are we almost at the point that that [TS]
00:22:09 ◼ ► applies to apple to apples not viruses not between you and the content you want for us in this venue in the Internet. [TS]
00:22:19 ◼ ► when you're buying something through Apple you know you're buying something from Apple store right. [TS]
00:22:27 ◼ ► and doesn't like you are choosing to go through a Verizon gate to get to the Internet at which point you can choose [TS]
00:22:35 ◼ ► I mean you're going through the intra crowd are you going through the Internet to get to the app store if you want to [TS]
00:22:42 ◼ ► and buying they Why shouldn't rising get forty percent of every purchase to the App Store they are your gate into the [TS]
00:22:47 ◼ ► Internet and the Internet is a different thing it's how we are all connected to each other. [TS]
00:22:56 ◼ ► and doesn't run Netflix Arisan doesn't accept uploaded videos from for movie theaters the Netflix horizon doesn't [TS]
00:23:01 ◼ ► manage this is corruptions of people to Netflix. Brother nothing to do with Netflix. [TS]
00:23:09 ◼ ► and say oh well the entire Internet is our oyster would no matter what you want to do there we can extort money from [TS]
00:23:23 ◼ ► and has nothing Apple owns the app store except uploads they have a developer program they made the hardware that made [TS]
00:23:28 ◼ ► the software they allow people to upload things they accept your money they do it like that is Apple. [TS]
00:23:33 ◼ ► We're going through the Internet to get the apple is not the same thing as the Internet at all the internet is a [TS]
00:23:38 ◼ ► special unique snowflake I'm going to say that different than everything else the Internet is not the App Store for [TS]
00:23:44 ◼ ► crowd the gaps on the Internet without the Internet nothing works so simply because Apple made the App Store it we have [TS]
00:23:54 ◼ ► to play by their rules even if they're completely unfair and owns it and runs it and makes all decisions that. [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Is it a private entity it's basically private versus public and I think the Internet works best [TS]
00:24:05 ◼ ► and has historically been treated as a public thing that we all share together because it doesn't work if we if we cut [TS]
00:24:13 ◼ ► and disconnect if you disconnect a sub network from the Internet that's like it's not that you're not on you know on [TS]
00:24:19 ◼ ► the internet anymore it's pointless to anybody to north the says well we're not going to communicate with anybody is [TS]
00:24:23 ◼ ► not in the northeast like that's pointless. The whole point is we're all connected to each other through it. [TS]
00:24:28 ◼ ► That's what makes the Internet the Internet it is a unique thing it should be treated differently than everything else [TS]
00:24:38 ◼ ► and I mean it is complicated by the fact of the App Store then that would be simpler if it was just like you know [TS]
00:24:46 ◼ ► and now that they were net neutrality is like if you allow regional I a species to be gatekeepers [TS]
00:24:52 ◼ ► and extort money for things they're already being paid for on both ends they're going to choose the winners and losers. [TS]
00:24:56 ◼ ► and losers in its own app store all the time they choose who to feature they choose who to be rejected they choose [TS]
00:25:01 ◼ ► every they choose to make the rules they change the rules once your application is in the App Store. [TS]
00:25:12 ◼ ► Well if Apple doesn't pay us we're not going to let people go to the app store over there. [TS]
00:25:15 ◼ ► I was devices wirelessly right. It's almost as if you're creating your own Internet. [TS]
00:25:20 ◼ ► Speaking of which our sponsor this is a glue it makes an Internet you'll actually like nothing even different Read this [TS]
00:25:28 ◼ ► time so the but I figured to better in there anyway so its quarterly earnings season. [TS]
00:25:33 ◼ ► Time to read those highly scripted texts about revenue margin and earnings data with that in mind. [TS]
00:25:39 ◼ ► Bigloo the makers of an Internet you'll actually like want to present a quarterly report that you'll actually like [TS]
00:25:46 ◼ ► they're a private company so it's hard to present the numbers you care about in a way it's easy to understand. [TS]
00:25:51 ◼ ► It's how to design their software to the quarterly report takes the form of the info graphic with fun stats about how [TS]
00:26:01 ◼ ► Hundred forty four meetings every hour nine hundred ninety five Wiki article is added every day [TS]
00:26:07 ◼ ► and it's blended with quirky facts about the people that work an igloo for example they've consumed six thousand one [TS]
00:26:16 ◼ ► The farts develop with a cool parallax experience and some cool animations. So check it out. What. [TS]
00:26:23 ◼ ► Bigloo Software dot com slash earnings once again check out it was software the makers of the Internet you'll actually [TS]
00:26:38 ◼ ► All right the last bit of follow up is on Affleck's quick little thing we talked about the Facebook project appliques [TS]
00:26:45 ◼ ► and we got a bunch of feedback from people who are much more familiar with it than we are saying that the really the [TS]
00:26:50 ◼ ► point of Apple inks is mostly not about going from browsers to apps which is what we were mostly talking about. [TS]
00:26:57 ◼ ► It's mostly to more intelligently link from apps to other apps without bouncing through the browser. [TS]
00:27:04 ◼ ► So for instance if you know like in the Twitter app if they were with integrated appling send you into an Instagram [TS]
00:27:11 ◼ ► and Facebook we're talking about Twitter would actually explicitly disable the Instagram link from working. [TS]
00:27:18 ◼ ► But anyway suppose it was some other service Twitter's friendly with like OK suppose is the tumblr app [TS]
00:27:27 ◼ ► and Teller Apostolate Instagram but I don't think they hate each other yet so the tumblr app [TS]
00:27:32 ◼ ► and you know link direct that Instagram instead of you know bounce of the web browser so it's still to fetch the page [TS]
00:27:47 ◼ ► Well they have to fetch the extreme out now you know because like that's part of the A.P.I. [TS]
00:27:51 ◼ ► That's one of the things that people are pointing out to us is that this case you brought that up to the bone I was [TS]
00:27:54 ◼ ► looking at the docs like that the stuff is still in the page but that's like the protocol. [TS]
00:28:00 ◼ ► Like how do you provide this information the thing but Facebook or somebody like provides a library that like this [TS]
00:28:06 ◼ ► and you can crawl the pages self extracting immigration but we also provide an A.P.I. [TS]
00:28:12 ◼ ► and We give you the equivalent like Apple Inc and oh that's right the discovery service that's right. [TS]
00:28:17 ◼ ► Right so like so well crawl them and like so then you don't have to go out to a page [TS]
00:28:21 ◼ ► and get it if you're lucky it'll be in like a cash or a local thing or you know boils down to the same thing [TS]
00:28:36 ◼ ► Extract the information needed to build the Apple Inc And that takes me deeply into another application [TS]
00:28:47 ◼ ► but that's the equivalency that's the I think the piece that I was missing the thing is basically like given to you [TS]
00:28:54 ◼ ► They would they would work just fine like it shows you that the thing you're going to buy or whatever. [TS]
00:29:02 ◼ ► and form that into an Apple Inc that I can use to get to the equivalent page inside another as well as a fantastic way [TS]
00:29:09 ◼ ► for Facebook to capture tons of click data on all the or else people clicking in apps. [TS]
00:29:17 ◼ ► It's just a discovery service is just in the intimate patient detail don't worry about it. [TS]
00:29:21 ◼ ► Well you're right they want to bypass the web they be the only the only way you could get to places like you know [TS]
00:29:28 ◼ ► or redirecting you to the like whatever protocol handler that Iowa says as long as your application is like no no no [TS]
00:29:33 ◼ ► we'll we'll get that you know given your oh we will tell you what the equivalent application page is based on all this [TS]
00:29:40 ◼ ► and that's where the stuff is on a web page it makes more sense to me now that like you know if you don't support [TS]
00:29:50 ◼ ► and you tap on an Apple Apple Inc We won't show you that detail page for the book instead will take you directly to the [TS]
00:30:02 ◼ ► and for every single link you tap in any application that supports this it's going to first check with the Facebook [TS]
00:30:08 ◼ ► And yeah anyone else can run a discovery service but this is going to be the default one that's already built in free. [TS]
00:30:15 ◼ ► and that way every single link you ever tap in an app that supports this will first tell Facebook that you're clicking [TS]
00:30:24 ◼ ► but you know Facebook wants to have this constellation of applications surrounding their data [TS]
00:30:28 ◼ ► and so they want to use it for their purposes like OK well they don't have the Facebook whatever happens stalled take [TS]
00:30:35 ◼ ► but if they do have the Facebook whatever out of style Don't bother sending the Facebook comes to turn into the app [TS]
00:30:43 ◼ ► and native applications instead of sending people to one big blue Web site we also have T. Shirts for sale. [TS]
00:30:49 ◼ ► We have teachers for sale for a very short time remaining We only have right now there is as we record there is like [TS]
00:30:55 ◼ ► four days remaining when we release is it'll be more like one or a day and a half or meaning. So please if you want a T. [TS]
00:31:01 ◼ ► Shirt which we greatly appreciate because we'll make a few dollars on each one if you want to T. [TS]
00:31:12 ◼ ► but thank you very much everyone who's bought them so far the numbers have have really surprised me what we've sold as [TS]
00:31:17 ◼ ► we recorded just under a thousand which is amazing I think I was estimating like a few hundred maybe at best and [TS]
00:31:24 ◼ ► Thank you everyone for buying our shirts you know and that's very awesome of everyone who has and we appreciate it. [TS]
00:31:44 ◼ ► Yes this is all this is only for the people who are going down the show when it comes out on Friday [TS]
00:31:48 ◼ ► or I think Saturday you might have time so you did have an entire week to try to get the shirt. [TS]
00:31:53 ◼ ► I know people are going to be sad because they missed it is give away to the last minute can't decide if they want [TS]
00:32:02 ◼ ► and go see if the sale store their price to move people some people are asking if they thought the source code in the [TS]
00:32:11 ◼ ► but we really hope it does I think you know you have no way to tell I mean I like I made it as big as possible [TS]
00:32:21 ◼ ► and have it fit in the back I also used the Monaco bold so everything is a should be a little sticker which should make [TS]
00:32:31 ◼ ► And we only used a few colors they can they can reuse the color but I haven't liked either it [TS]
00:32:35 ◼ ► or anything weird like that so I thought using Menlo Eden is mellow. Oh sorry it is memory right. [TS]
00:32:43 ◼ ► But yes so it's it should be relatively thick so it should turn out but we aren't screen printers [TS]
00:33:09 ◼ ► but we'll find out if it doesn't think of it this way you'll have the T.-Shirt equivalent of the upside down airplane [TS]
00:33:13 ◼ ► stamp. Yeah I mean like I and I have a few other shirts from T. Spring and their quality seems really good. [TS]
00:33:20 ◼ ► There are real screen printing shop that it isn't doing like what Cafe Press does where it's where it's basically like [TS]
00:33:30 ◼ ► and you know they were able to get quite a lot of detail on the run this writer had previously from them so I have high [TS]
00:33:45 ◼ ► and it sounds like they're sunsetting their brand without sunsetting their brand another winding down. My apologies. [TS]
00:33:56 ◼ ► After that will continue operating on a forward basis. Nobody actually dedicated to it right. [TS]
00:34:02 ◼ ► See this this is this is sad I mean I can't really say that no one saw this coming because we all saw this coming I [TS]
00:34:10 ◼ ► think but I just don't I think they should have just killed it. And Alex I'm sure we're going to kill it. [TS]
00:34:18 ◼ ► It's you know maybe they haven't killed yet because they want to wait out people who have paid so they don't try to [TS]
00:34:24 ◼ ► deal with issuing refunds for like partially fulfilled subscriptions. That's a pretty good reason. [TS]
00:34:35 ◼ ► So it may be that it was maybe it was in their plan but you know now what they basically said is so a few weeks ago [TS]
00:34:46 ◼ ► when all of the initial subscriptions expired so if you if you were one of the backers at the very beginning which is [TS]
00:34:57 ◼ ► If you're one of those original backers that they did come to kick starter style thing [TS]
00:35:11 ◼ ► And so of that massive original wave of backers they basically said they didn't get enough renewals to be able to [TS]
00:35:26 ◼ ► and there occasionally as the budget permits which is a fancy way of saying if you subscribe some more [TS]
00:35:42 ◼ ► But you know that statement is probably based on the numbers describers that it has today. [TS]
00:35:55 ◼ ► So I suspect that you know an actual shutdown is is like. It with and probably I don't know six months. [TS]
00:36:02 ◼ ► So did you either of you guys really knew when the renewal went when the renewal happens. [TS]
00:36:07 ◼ ► I did and now I regret it of course not in here. Same here. I didn't actually because I just never use it. [TS]
00:36:19 ◼ ► but you know I mean to me I don't really actively use it I well I use it to announce that we're live [TS]
00:36:30 ◼ ► And actually two hundred four and I use it when somebody mentions me but that's it. [TS]
00:36:38 ◼ ► I never actively go tap dot net to just see what's cracking on the i time every go is if somebody is addressing me [TS]
00:36:45 ◼ ► or I'm announcing our life I discovered when when my but my rule is coming up I decided you know what. [TS]
00:36:52 ◼ ► I don't use anymore so I don't pay for again when they convert my paid account to a free account [TS]
00:36:57 ◼ ► and to do that you have to use the stay under a certain following limit I think it's like forty people that you can [TS]
00:37:04 ◼ ► And and so I had to reduce my following list down to that number and so what I did was I want to follow it [TS]
00:37:23 ◼ ► and it was really really easy to get the number down by that method because so many people. [TS]
00:37:29 ◼ ► It was it was I was actually kind of surprised like how many people who I initially had followed were no longer using [TS]
00:37:34 ◼ ► the service. Like so many people hadn't posted in months. Some of them hadn't posted in over a year. [TS]
00:37:40 ◼ ► The service is about two years old some of them hadn't posted in over a year some of them had never posted [TS]
00:37:45 ◼ ► and they were like I had followed them because of like a Twitter friend finder kind of thing [TS]
00:37:52 ◼ ► and it was it was kind of sobering I really think you know there are people who use it every day no question. [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► And I've heard from from developers of net dot apps that it just they were just never enough users to really make [TS]
00:38:09 ◼ ► development for it feasible you know you need a critical mass of your friends to be there for it to be viable for you [TS]
00:38:18 ◼ ► and it became very clear very quickly that a critical mass of the people I you know interact with did not make it over [TS]
00:38:26 ◼ ► and so it for a while like there was a tiny little bubble of people over there that I would talk with in that in that [TS]
00:38:40 ◼ ► and after that became kind of like a back channel for Twitter because of the small subset of people who are you know [TS]
00:38:47 ◼ ► or by just you know desire nothing like that could be interesting back channel for commentary and stuff [TS]
00:38:55 ◼ ► and with with things like this with you know with with platforms where you're seeing things other people write [TS]
00:39:07 ◼ ► Audience is king and if you know the people you want to follow aren't posting on at the net [TS]
00:39:12 ◼ ► and the people you want to read what you're writing aren't on the net then you just you know it's not going to go there [TS]
00:39:20 ◼ ► but you just basically like I have an Instapaper of course that it's not a technology problem it's social problem [TS]
00:39:28 ◼ ► and as unfortunate as that is like we thought they had some of the social aspects from the developer pressing side they [TS]
00:39:37 ◼ ► You know how do you make a win win situation for developers to use as a platform but the biggest [TS]
00:39:41 ◼ ► when they didn't put it put in there which Marco pointed out is you've got to have a lot of users because there has to [TS]
00:39:45 ◼ ► be a large potential customer base and if you can't get that it doesn't matter if you do all those other things right. [TS]
00:39:53 ◼ ► How many users do you have I mean a clone of that I go eyeballs and big growth rates and you know it's like. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► But you don't have to make everything free for everybody and just make the entire world use it [TS]
00:40:08 ◼ ► Then we can go you know twenty twenty hindsight and say what should they have done to get more users. [TS]
00:40:12 ◼ ► Margo I think has talked about probably the biggest reception waiting way too long to do a free tier [TS]
00:40:22 ◼ ► Yeah I mean that was the big thing like you know it was noble of them to try a paid model you know so they could avoid [TS]
00:40:29 ◼ ► the weird advertiser creepiness phenomenon that all these free services have to turn to to make money. [TS]
00:40:35 ◼ ► You know that was an idea but the problem is and you know we all think knew it at the time. [TS]
00:40:40 ◼ ► The problem is that for for a social product like that you need as many people as possible [TS]
00:40:49 ◼ ► and having no free tier having everything be paid only at the beginning for the whole for almost the whole first year [TS]
00:40:59 ◼ ► And furthermore they even after they they made a free tier in I believe last early last May or last April [TS]
00:41:13 ◼ ► and there were a limited number of imitation so you had to you had to be invited by a paid member now that that I think [TS]
00:41:20 ◼ ► was fatal. Also even more fatal beating a dead after even more people because they when they did finally go free. [TS]
00:41:41 ◼ ► But everyone had already been told that this was now free but we need an invitation so it's like [TS]
00:41:48 ◼ ► When that requirement was lifted and so even people who were on the fence about it once they learned it was free [TS]
00:41:55 ◼ ► and then were kind of turned away by that by the imitation requirement. They probably didn't. [TS]
00:42:03 ◼ ► and it's really hard to strike that balance the biggest I can't you know the whole thing we're talking about if you [TS]
00:42:09 ◼ ► and nobody is ever motivated to do the pay thing you've just killed your service like that's the whole point they were [TS]
00:42:13 ◼ ► trying to make a service that was sustained by the people uses you have to trust you have to strike that perfect [TS]
00:42:20 ◼ ► but the you know sort of like Dropbox has found I assume the balance for themselves which is yeah you can use Dropbox [TS]
00:42:25 ◼ ► for free until you reach a certain quota and enough people are going to reach that quota [TS]
00:42:30 ◼ ► and that is really difficult to strike that balance making everybody pay on a service that is going to live [TS]
00:42:40 ◼ ► Maybe they were fooled by the initial enthusiasm of an alternate services whatever [TS]
00:42:46 ◼ ► Well most people I know don't care about what they'll say but it is a doing to developers and their back over there [TS]
00:42:55 ◼ ► Yeah I like the invitation thing could have been you know throttling for a load or trying to build hype [TS]
00:43:04 ◼ ► Mail was invite only in the beginning like that's not entirely crazy thing but it's all about timing and balance. [TS]
00:43:12 ◼ ► Is the bouncing correct all those people who found they can go to free all like those dedicated people like I use up [TS]
00:43:21 ◼ ► and the fact that you found it easy to get to the free beer like that is an incorrect bounce [TS]
00:43:27 ◼ ► But I was thinking of the things they could do things they could have done a lot of people [TS]
00:43:32 ◼ ► and I think Marco's you blogged about this like focus that they seem to try a lot of different things [TS]
00:43:40 ◼ ► but no one knew what they were they didn't concert anyone thing that's what I messed up on the other side of that coin [TS]
00:43:44 ◼ ► as well as they had tried to do one of those things the entire time we would've been saying you should try different [TS]
00:43:51 ◼ ► For application so I mean it all stems back to the same problem they did not find a way to get people into the service [TS]
00:44:00 ◼ ► For all that of that may be but I don't know I mean at the same time like all these different things. [TS]
00:44:10 ◼ ► That was not trying to get people on the service it was trying to add value for Eagles already there to maybe in the [TS]
00:44:14 ◼ ► future maybe it's more people to sign up. But like every one of their major A.P.I. [TS]
00:44:23 ◼ ► or as much of the service isn't the kind of thing like oh this will be great once more people are here [TS]
00:44:30 ◼ ► Well they were trying to get new customers like they say OK we can get people becoming is like Twitter. [TS]
00:44:34 ◼ ► Maybe we can get developers to use it as their back end kind of like some period of [TS]
00:44:41 ◼ ► OK we can get enough regular people about it can we get enough developers of applications are we going to get enough of [TS]
00:44:47 ◼ ► and the thing that might have undone them is instead of doing the pivot thing where you could think this is where we're [TS]
00:44:54 ◼ ► They just added to them so it became a big long list of things that it did and that becomes difficult to support. [TS]
00:45:16 ◼ ► But again you got to you have to be able to show that you are sustainable or show that you get so many customers [TS]
00:45:32 ◼ ► when it comes to growing a social product like a look at My Space My Space You know it's easy to laugh at them now [TS]
00:45:42 ◼ ► and they had the worst technology in the universe powering that thing they still do [TS]
00:45:46 ◼ ► and it's like it is comical just how much in shambles that company always was my space has always been comically [TS]
00:45:54 ◼ ► dysfunctional before and after acquisition and you know their site was like held together by tape. [TS]
00:46:00 ◼ ► In glue and and yet it was the biggest social site on the web for a long time and still is no slouch. [TS]
00:46:11 ◼ ► but matters for anything that is social is just the social network effect it's it's getting the people who you want to [TS]
00:46:19 ◼ ► and you know there was there was never any hope for something that was paywall only for every single user to ever get [TS]
00:46:27 ◼ ► that big. You know if they were going to get big they should have had a free tier at the very beginning. [TS]
00:46:35 ◼ ► But that's hard like it like the reason they did imitations was probably not to build hype it was probably because they [TS]
00:46:40 ◼ ► were afraid of things like spam and abuse from bulk registrations which is a major problem it's hard to deal with. [TS]
00:46:46 ◼ ► But like that's that's the game like that's that's akin to you're signing up for if you want to have any kind of [TS]
00:46:58 ◼ ► So you know really what the I think what they should have done instead was had no social product at all [TS]
00:47:13 ◼ ► but even then the model of having the users pay instead of the developers is weird [TS]
00:47:19 ◼ ► and I think that I don't think that ever really had a chance that I thought that's credit I am the success they had [TS]
00:47:27 ◼ ► when they got real active helpers to make real app tonight clients instead of just like some random person doing it as [TS]
00:47:36 ◼ ► I mean granted movies are used a lot of the work they had done for it we bought and everything [TS]
00:47:42 ◼ ► and they got some pretty darn high quality applications even someone's first application like those people hone their [TS]
00:47:48 ◼ ► and shape them up into you know applications that I would put up against any third party Twitter client you know [TS]
00:47:55 ◼ ► and some of them you know some of them weren't just like Tweet bipartisan about some of them a whole brand new outlook. [TS]
00:48:01 ◼ ► and they were pretty darn good Granted there was prior art in terms of people it seem a Twitter applications were like [TS]
00:48:08 ◼ ► and that was part of their goal like we're going to make an awesome platform for developers. [TS]
00:48:15 ◼ ► and they tried to make up for that by giving them a share of the money they were getting like. [TS]
00:48:22 ◼ ► and so I give them credit for even achieving that level of access to it if you think about that you know who else has [TS]
00:48:29 ◼ ► tried that and been even remotely successful it is especially on something like a social network [TS]
00:48:34 ◼ ► and it's a tough sell so they they have nothing to be ashamed of in terms of that they had the guts to do this. [TS]
00:48:43 ◼ ► They just didn't get over the hump and the just now they're sliding back down the hill. [TS]
00:48:47 ◼ ► Yeah agreed I mean you know there and you know I've talked to don't know if these are good people [TS]
00:48:51 ◼ ► and I I I I'm trying to you know be constructive here they I I don't think they're idiots they're I know they're not [TS]
00:48:58 ◼ ► idiots and I don't think they are I think they just they were trying something really really hard [TS]
00:49:11 ◼ ► and got further than I thought it would i didn't even think it would get back to like I didn't think it would even make [TS]
00:49:15 ◼ ► their goal because it seemed pretty high at the time and they did and they blew right past it I mean and [TS]
00:49:21 ◼ ► and they let to last two years I mean I really would have guessed that either but I don't know [TS]
00:49:40 ◼ ► and like it's almost like you know talk about it briefly I'm back to work this week. [TS]
00:49:47 ◼ ► Listen to that but you know it's a little weird it's like you're hanging out at a bar with your friends [TS]
00:49:53 ◼ ► and there are people filtering out for a while and now the owners just turn the lights on and left. [TS]
00:50:01 ◼ ► No with the lights on in his empty room like how long are you really going to stay there. [TS]
00:50:06 ◼ ► Somebody tweeted today that like if you don't like using something that doesn't have a full time people working on it [TS]
00:50:12 ◼ ► and you should trash half the application I with application to your phone make a difference because like obviously a [TS]
00:50:18 ◼ ► service is different than a bunch of bits on you but you know this is the problem. [TS]
00:50:22 ◼ ► All over like this is why people are wary about signing up for things or using applications [TS]
00:50:29 ◼ ► and that's why big you know big successful companies have some kind of advantage because you know it's like a fly by [TS]
00:50:34 ◼ ► and like well you know depending on the company like Apple Microsoft Google you figure if this thing goes away it will [TS]
00:50:47 ◼ ► but you're not worried about the viability of the company because they have billions of dollars [TS]
00:50:51 ◼ ► and if you're going to give them at least a couple years before they go down the tubes right where things like this [TS]
00:50:55 ◼ ► it's all just you know how much do you believe in these scrappy group of people and how you know [TS]
00:51:01 ◼ ► and they made two years which is like a longer probably than some Google project so good on them. [TS]
00:51:07 ◼ ► So something Marco said a few minutes ago actually really made me think for a moment. [TS]
00:51:11 ◼ ► You had said something along the lines of Well if they screwed up having people there having the users pay for for [TS]
00:51:22 ◼ ► and it occurred to me that you could make a really legitimate argument that after net was further up the stack then a [TS]
00:51:28 ◼ ► lot of the things we're working with so if you look at the you know the lowest level we've got a physical machine that [TS]
00:51:35 ◼ ► say Marco owns for Instapaper or overcast or what have you that is colocated it's somebody's status center [TS]
00:51:46 ◼ ► and you have a virtual machine that's still it's on these data center and so on and so forth so it's a shared resource. [TS]
00:51:50 ◼ ► Then you move up the stack a little more you have something like Heroku or Azure perhaps in the middle maybe [TS]
00:51:55 ◼ ► but something like that where you have sort of a platform as a service thing well that's. [TS]
00:52:00 ◼ ► What apps out there could've been I feel like it would be even further up the stack from like a Heroku where you have [TS]
00:52:08 ◼ ► and it seems in retrospect it seems obvious to me now after hearing Marco say that the Dow would have been really [TS]
00:52:14 ◼ ► and if the pricing wasn't god awful that would be a really really great way for a developer to get say the user [TS]
00:52:24 ◼ ► or you know data storage like you had mentioned there are so many things that happen that eventually end up doing [TS]
00:52:33 ◼ ► but anyway there's so much that they do that as someone who has no interest in running his own servers like myself that [TS]
00:52:43 ◼ ► and I keep getting reminded of I think as Brent Simmons had posted about hey why don't we have an A.P.I. [TS]
00:52:49 ◼ ► Kind of like this I think his point was a little bit different but it's a similar idea [TS]
00:52:54 ◼ ► and it really could be a wonderful thing if you don't want to go through the hassle [TS]
00:52:58 ◼ ► and effort of completely rolling your own stuff. Yeah totally I mean that's and I think part of the problem with that. [TS]
00:53:17 ◼ ► when Twitter started being a dick they sort of merging them with this and kind of kind of took over [TS]
00:53:22 ◼ ► and you know became something else because it was a new cool thing that there was a need for. [TS]
00:53:34 ◼ ► and add this other thing to it will end of this other kind of prizes other kind of service [TS]
00:53:48 ◼ ► but they would have skipped the step of let's make this into a Twitter alternative you know [TS]
00:53:53 ◼ ► or let's make this into a platform that could power a Twitter alternative. Please don't email me. You know if. [TS]
00:54:01 ◼ ► and gone directly from the old app developer services company into what you just described like like a high level [TS]
00:54:08 ◼ ► developer back end services company where the developers would pay them to post their back ends on this infrastructure [TS]
00:54:17 ◼ ► and users would never have to know about it just the same way users don't know don't know if your back end is on you [TS]
00:54:29 ◼ ► and you the application developer would do your own you know user management in the sense that like you would say I [TS]
00:54:37 ◼ ► and you know here's here's an email password you know give me a user account for this [TS]
00:54:41 ◼ ► and then he with every call you make there right. Humidifiers for user ID X.Y.Z. Like that for my application. [TS]
00:54:49 ◼ ► and I think that's a probably better business to be in given all the services they were building on top of it like it [TS]
00:54:55 ◼ ► seems like they would've been better off targeting only developers and making the developers pay [TS]
00:55:00 ◼ ► and making all these great services they added to it just just developed services really boring though. [TS]
00:55:11 ◼ ► but is also well know that one before Game Center came out that all the game high scores [TS]
00:55:15 ◼ ► and later boards about that called Yeah I know everyone I always had to say no to it. [TS]
00:55:22 ◼ ► and you know as you are of course one of my all sorts of all sorts of services that are like this that are essentially [TS]
00:55:29 ◼ ► or trust accorded of course although it has the i Cloud don't have the advantage of the i Cloud doesn't that your users [TS]
00:55:39 ◼ ► and some carriers like for for you know a sort of alternative the core data simpler kind of document data storage [TS]
00:55:47 ◼ ► But the thing is I don't know any of those services are like burning up the charts in those companies are being wildly [TS]
00:55:53 ◼ ► and that got to do something different which was this weird Twitter like thing they got to run the experiment of. [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► How does two fifty six characters feel compared to one forty. My my answer to that is it feels pretty good. [TS]
00:56:09 ◼ ► What about Arab embedded in the answer that was it's really hard to clients support it [TS]
00:56:13 ◼ ► but it's kind of a good idea in theory. You know the conversation threading Lots of all the experiments they ran. [TS]
00:56:18 ◼ ► I mean if Twitter wasn't a bunch of bots they would use it as like hey these guys did all the research for us by trying [TS]
00:56:28 ◼ ► but if they did after that they did a good service that I think the the user goodwill to people who did enjoy a net [TS]
00:56:36 ◼ ► and everything is probably going to have a more lasting impact on all the experiments there [TS]
00:56:41 ◼ ► and more lasting impact than if they had just become another company in line with those other companies that I [TS]
00:56:46 ◼ ► mentioned that I mean and I don't know how those companies are doing well maybe they're doing fabulously well [TS]
00:56:56 ◼ ► and squish them like I don't know how one fan is doing now to game centers out maybe they're doing great I don't know [TS]
00:57:00 ◼ ► but like Azure and stuff Microsoft has the invention of like you know after that would have to pay you know S three [TS]
00:57:07 ◼ ► or a WS arise or something because you know there are a reseller of other services [TS]
00:57:15 ◼ ► or Apple itself doesn't have that extra margin in the middle to give to some other party in the chain to they're always [TS]
00:57:20 ◼ ► going to be joined price and people own platforms or is going to be jump from integration [TS]
00:57:24 ◼ ► and that's a tough business to be in so maybe they would still be in business if they had chose that model [TS]
00:57:33 ◼ ► but that I mean you know they would be a value added provider you know if they would have this this great system built [TS]
00:57:39 ◼ ► on top of raw hardware like if you look at a service like her to the markup is insane I mean there's tons of profit to [TS]
00:57:51 ◼ ► and by building in functionality that developers want to write themselves like that [TS]
00:57:55 ◼ ► but they're never going to do like they don't they would have to pay Amazon if they use easy to to deploy. [TS]
00:58:02 ◼ ► But yeah I almost say Iraq was not part of the charity like I'm saying you're always going to some There's always going [TS]
00:58:10 ◼ ► or the same service so that our platform integration so it's a tough business to be end like you're always kind of [TS]
00:58:14 ◼ ► you're trying to find a little area that someone isn't covering like Open Feint probably thought it was a great Apple [TS]
00:58:19 ◼ ► never been waiting with games were all set with and they would do well for a while and then games [TS]
00:58:22 ◼ ► and it comes which sucks and I hate but it really took the wind out of their sails. [TS]
00:58:28 ◼ ► Yeah I mean I suppose it is a harder business but hitting is harder than a paid Social Network. [TS]
00:58:31 ◼ ► Well I mean you know it's a risk reward like they went for the riskier play initially that had the bigger potential [TS]
00:58:37 ◼ ► and I guess that I think the things they did with that are more interesting experiments than if they had you know tried [TS]
00:58:43 ◼ ► and maybe do it on something more interesting they have it seems like more of the same like a wee wee over something [TS]
00:58:50 ◼ ► or whatever whereas no one tried to make Well no one made it as successful a sort of Twitter like application of that I [TS]
00:58:58 ◼ ► and used to be called dentists you know you get a change into something else anyway like they had a federated system [TS]
00:59:07 ◼ ► I think tend to still running because it's like not centralized and you know it's called cupcake now [TS]
00:59:21 ◼ ► and who knows it could be like Irish people forget about it until you realize oh yeah are still there [TS]
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01:00:50 ◼ ► and You get fifty percent off your first box. Thank you to nature box for sponsoring our show. [TS]
01:00:58 ◼ ► And this actually broke before the last episode maybe even the data we recorded Lesseps I wouldn't have time to talk [TS]
01:01:04 ◼ ► about it. And our friend Alan Pike wrote about how in a preview release of chrome there they've removed the U.R.L. [TS]
01:01:19 ◼ ► And so we'll put the link in the show notes and basically where currently you have a full bore U.R.L. [TS]
01:01:26 ◼ ► and You know highlight the top level domain and so on so that it highlights like Amazon dot com for example. [TS]
01:01:33 ◼ ► Well now what it would be is it would show that you're on Amazon dot com and that's it. [TS]
01:01:38 ◼ ► And then everything else is just a search google box and the internet seems to be really upset about this [TS]
01:01:47 ◼ ► and I go on to a couple of conversations on Twitter with a couple of people about this [TS]
01:01:51 ◼ ► and people who are really fired up and really angry about it and not Alan Allen seems to be kind of violent about it. [TS]
01:02:05 ◼ ► Personally I'm not so sure this is such a terrible idea and I'm curious to hear what you think about it. [TS]
01:02:13 ◼ ► I thought come up and I beta on the beta channel and immediately did I should let us first [TS]
01:02:20 ◼ ► but now I've learned that by the time something shows in the beta channel there are a thousand web pages explaining how [TS]
01:02:25 ◼ ► to turn off he just got that chrome restore address bar and like the number one hit is I'm telling you how to do it [TS]
01:02:34 ◼ ► Cohen double slash flags and find the little setting that turns it off and do relaunch and restart it then [TS]
01:02:39 ◼ ► but the reason I had to restart is no web developer I need to see the address bar like it's kind of important to see [TS]
01:02:45 ◼ ► that and I'm assuming that they will always include the feature to turn on because some people are with DOS [TS]
01:02:50 ◼ ► but most people are not and that's where we get into like is it a good idea to hide this to this degree [TS]
01:02:55 ◼ ► and I'm not so sure I like not because I think oh you always have to show the address [TS]
01:02:59 ◼ ► and people like I don't think people care about the others but I don't think people ever even look at it [TS]
01:03:04 ◼ ► and I don't like the idea of people fishing with the things with a big long username with an ad using it looks like the [TS]
01:03:12 ◼ ► and that's why Evy certificates are as a foul are good because they put the little green thing like there's a lot of [TS]
01:03:19 ◼ ► or Highlighting the parts that are important to people and making it not be free form text [TS]
01:03:25 ◼ ► but by the same token the web works on your rails and you may not need to expose all the nitty gritty details [TS]
01:03:37 ◼ ► Necessarily but that shows all the parts of the U.R.L. Shows through in all their glory. Because your L. [TS]
01:03:45 ◼ ► Design and you know and your Alice is a thing you can copy and paste out of an area [TS]
01:03:50 ◼ ► and send around I think is still an important part of the web. Like I mean it could work without it. [TS]
01:03:56 ◼ ► I can see a scenario where you have all the same features you don't need to swipe. [TS]
01:04:02 ◼ ► and say copy your relatives didn't journey a mailman when you paste into the email it could look different [TS]
01:04:08 ◼ ► but I think the paddlings resistance for this thing that we have like your L's are not going away [TS]
01:04:12 ◼ ► and people are going to want to share them over text medium's so they have to exist in some form so I'm all for [TS]
01:04:19 ◼ ► stopping all the things that are bad that people do with the orals and pinning down different parts of it [TS]
01:04:27 ◼ ► Even users who don't know or care what it is because even those people I want to send email about it at some point. [TS]
01:04:33 ◼ ► Yeah but there's a problem I have with what you're saying is I don't see any need to look at the full U.R.L. [TS]
01:04:42 ◼ ► and you know people in the chat are pointing out this is the behavior that Chrome is having it will have theoretically [TS]
01:04:52 ◼ ► So if you look at a Web site all you see at the top is the is the whole same time you know in so caseless dot com for [TS]
01:05:08 ◼ ► In what I'm saying is I don't think there even needs to necessarily be a cap in the your L.. [TS]
01:05:13 ◼ ► Bar to see the rest of your L. The only time I think an average person would need to see the U.R.L. [TS]
01:05:22 ◼ ► Web developers or developers in general absolutely agree with you that they were going to want to see it. [TS]
01:05:30 ◼ ► and additionally from anecdotal experience I can't think of anyone other than my dad who's pretty good who would ever. [TS]
01:05:46 ◼ ► and that in the IO situation obviously for space constraints I think the i Pad I think I remember a guy with an i Pad [TS]
01:05:52 ◼ ► app like but I mean on the phone it makes perfect sense like you know have room to show us stuff [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► There are portions of it like I would like you know like sometimes they have something that ends up being Rotex for the [TS]
01:06:06 ◼ ► but the show does little capsule bubbles because the theory is that people can deal with those capsule bustle bubbles [TS]
01:06:12 ◼ ► individually instead of you know a behind the scenes is just comma separated text you talk about like email. [TS]
01:06:16 ◼ ► Yeah like in the same way that they do with the VS sell certificates where there they show the big green boxes as Apple [TS]
01:06:22 ◼ ► dot com so you can be sure it's from Apple dot com like by all means and turn the address into a series of bits of U.I. [TS]
01:06:29 ◼ ► but I think you'd still want people to be able to like back up one level in the hierarchy like you can by command [TS]
01:06:35 ◼ ► clicking the title bar in Safari I don't want people to be afraid I don't want to become sort of like the thing that [TS]
01:06:42 ◼ ► you don't touch I don't want people to be afraid to go up there and like backspace [TS]
01:06:50 ◼ ► but like for regular people like there's no reason to shut out more people people who are currently comfortable messing [TS]
01:06:55 ◼ ► with the address bar who are just not borderline like me down like this will scare them away [TS]
01:07:08 ◼ ► or elles as generated by terrible web content generators in the early ninety's like Front Page [TS]
01:07:14 ◼ ► or else of the original original What is it the original city desk Urals member those narco zeroes like you were all [TS]
01:07:27 ◼ ► but I don't think it's worth long like locking it down more like they're already ignoring it locking it down more [TS]
01:07:32 ◼ ► doesn't help them a cycle previously they were screwing things up no they weren't they don't even know the thing is up [TS]
01:07:39 ◼ ► But if you're going to have it's visible at all I would like you to get rid of the bad things that are about the [TS]
01:07:45 ◼ ► current You shouldn't you shouldn't be able to fish people with it it should be you know it should be parsed out [TS]
01:07:51 ◼ ► but I would like to strike a balance that still allows it to be sort of piecemeal editable [TS]
01:07:56 ◼ ► and selectable manipulable other people who do care about the art. Right people don't care. [TS]
01:08:00 ◼ ► The Arabs just hide it completely. I don't even include a token for it or anything just like that. [TS]
01:08:08 ◼ ► Make that the fault of the you want to it's just that I think there's no reason to. [TS]
01:08:13 ◼ ► There's no reason to scare away the people who are on the borderline now who just tweak it a little bit you know [TS]
01:08:17 ◼ ► because I think I think that is that is a reasonable interface like we don't want people to use a command line [TS]
01:08:24 ◼ ► but I think our history with the GO has shown that while the glue is vastly superior for almost all things a couple of [TS]
01:08:29 ◼ ► things are actually a sort of text just think of all the email clients let you start typing in a two address [TS]
01:08:36 ◼ ► and turn into a little token that is a text interface with augmentation rather than saying oh every time you want to [TS]
01:08:43 ◼ ► send to somebody you have to open up the widget and scroll through and find the person or something like that. [TS]
01:08:52 ◼ ► and also give you you know affordance is to quickly turn that into is sort of an immutable capsule so you're not afraid [TS]
01:09:01 ◼ ► That type of design for the address bar seems appropriate in the same way that the text fields for you to see see the [TS]
01:09:12 ◼ ► and I think that's what the address bar should be is a really good version of a place where people seem manipulate [TS]
01:09:23 ◼ ► Yeah I mean it's it's a hard problem because we you know we as geeks recognize the significance of your L's [TS]
01:09:30 ◼ ► and the power of your L's But you know in reality in real world use they are a significant usability problem [TS]
01:09:44 ◼ ► and I've heard from various you know various people on Twitter said like this is this is probably not going to stick [TS]
01:09:54 ◼ ► I better get there eventually because it does benefit Google's tremendously but I think. [TS]
01:10:10 ◼ ► And there's lots of problems if you or els like security and you know the phishing attempts and stuff like that [TS]
01:10:18 ◼ ► Pages showing the big green bar for Evie A sells for because of the company name in it telling people to look for you [TS]
01:10:23 ◼ ► know make sure you're on peep out dot com before you type in your Pay Pal password. The fact is it doesn't work. [TS]
01:10:35 ◼ ► But these efforts really are not worth a whole lot you know we think they're effective to us they make sense as nerds [TS]
01:10:42 ◼ ► but the vast majority of people don't even look at the stuff they don't pay attention to your own security they don't [TS]
01:10:48 ◼ ► they can't tell if there aren't people arrive it looks like Pay Pal It is Pay Pal to them stuff like that like it's [TS]
01:10:58 ◼ ► Security you know and it's all it's all down to just actual human nature and human behavior [TS]
01:11:10 ◼ ► but in the case where someone is asking I want to do the right thing tell me what the right thing is if you can easily [TS]
01:11:17 ◼ ► So I think at the very least of the bar should be if someone is on the phone with you [TS]
01:11:21 ◼ ► and saying I can't tell if I'm on Pay Pal dot com if you know a browser using you should be able to tell them something [TS]
01:11:31 ◼ ► and make sure there's no ad sign because that's a just a gigantic username that begins a pain pill dot com [TS]
01:11:36 ◼ ► or something you know I mean like if you could tell them look at the big green thing to say Pay Pal dot com And in the [TS]
01:11:46 ◼ ► I mean getting back to how this is good for Google though I think that's one of the dangers of this is that yeah people [TS]
01:11:52 ◼ ► use the internet that way but for example you see a billboard with your hours something [TS]
01:11:56 ◼ ► and imagine with Google you know being evil in the future or saying even. If you type in H.T.T.P. [TS]
01:12:04 ◼ ► or that will never take you to Apple dot com Even if you saw that in the magazine ad even if you saw it on a billboard. [TS]
01:12:09 ◼ ► Everything is a Google search and we control like suddenly we control a huge portion of the Internet. [TS]
01:12:13 ◼ ► The say chrome becomes way more popular like you don't want to give the browser vendor so much control [TS]
01:12:19 ◼ ► and there are situations where any human beings will have to deal with the orals in a non-electronic form [TS]
01:12:31 ◼ ► and I would be I wouldn't like a situation where no matter what anyone types nothing it does a Google search because [TS]
01:12:41 ◼ ► I think you need to to strike a balance maybe the current thing is the right balance. [TS]
01:12:44 ◼ ► I haven't I didn't use it I merely turned it off like maybe maybe that is the bounce until recently [TS]
01:12:49 ◼ ► when the chairman saying is it more like back to the way I'm described as just that it's something to watch for. [TS]
01:12:55 ◼ ► You don't want to make everything into a search because then whoever you choose to search vendor is like your gateway [TS]
01:13:10 ◼ ► Why stand on tradition why not embrace the fact that it from from what I can tell anyone who wants to find out the [TS]
01:13:20 ◼ ► They're not going to think to type in Facebook dot com They're going to just type in Facebook to Google [TS]
01:13:24 ◼ ► or have a bookmark perhaps and that's how they're going to get there so let's just embrace the fact that the U.R.L. [TS]
01:13:29 ◼ ► Doesn't really mean much to anyone but nerds. But on subsequent visits if you type a P.P. [TS]
01:13:36 ◼ ► or Travel dot com takes you right apple dot com I see my parents do this all the time like I mean maybe again if they [TS]
01:13:46 ◼ ► and you start to type something people will figure out that like oh if I just hit return that well you won't go through [TS]
01:13:56 ◼ ► or you know whatever your local newspapers website is of ever it will be the first. A complete completion. [TS]
01:14:02 ◼ ► If you're going to some random place you just type some a bunch of stuff then yeah you'll do a search [TS]
01:14:10 ◼ ► and I think people fine like that better than going to Google and clicking the top result. [TS]
01:14:18 ◼ ► and it already has highlighted intervals dot com And every turn they would be annoyed if it went to Google. [TS]
01:14:22 ◼ ► Even at the top it was then a rose dot com that is going to go to Denver Post right [TS]
01:14:34 ◼ ► I think there is still a desire to go immediately where they want to go without going through a search. [TS]
01:14:48 ◼ ► or else nobody knows of the titles of pages are half of the holes are probably the same set of rules I don't know the [TS]
01:15:00 ◼ ► and you've been to Apple dot com In the past I'm assuming that the title on Apple's landing page is something that says [TS]
01:15:09 ◼ ► I mean well the top level domain things that we talked about last about the last show have not come through [TS]
01:15:16 ◼ ► The currency is still a cache an association with like something dot com People know what dot com is [TS]
01:15:23 ◼ ► and the reason they know about it is because they've been seeing in the address bar [TS]
01:15:28 ◼ ► You know if someone says oh you can't you know you should check out blah blah blah dot com You know it's something you [TS]
01:15:33 ◼ ► should go home and type in your web browsing you know what distinguishes it as like this is the Web site. [TS]
01:15:41 ◼ ► but There's still something to commit not just like reading up billboards but communicating with friends [TS]
01:15:49 ◼ ► or whatever you don't want to tell someone I just typed this into your thing I'm sure it'll be the number one result if [TS]
01:15:54 ◼ ► you know it's like go to Netflix dot com and you can sign up for Netflix. What about the Hell's Netflix dot com it. [TS]
01:16:00 ◼ ► When you type in an address bar the results to a horse and they don't know the details [TS]
01:16:03 ◼ ► but they know like that's different than saying if you just search for Netflix you'll find it which is also true [TS]
01:16:07 ◼ ► but communicating in dot coms with each other advertising them and telling other people about them. [TS]
01:16:14 ◼ ► I still think there is value in that. Our final sponsor this week is new relic going to new relic dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]
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01:17:46 ◼ ► and today does the name of your blogging engine and then lists now. Wow she's called Camel analysts. [TS]
01:17:54 ◼ ► Now just camel which I still don't know how to pronounce the word right but it's a combination my first and. [TS]
01:18:04 ◼ ► Well portmanteau that we're talking about I don't know how to pronounce it either I think that's it. [TS]
01:18:10 ◼ ► Anyways so there's not really that much to be said here and I'm actually going to not say much like usually [TS]
01:18:17 ◼ ► but I did open source that it's on get hub and I already got a poll request which I accepted which was a one liner [TS]
01:18:23 ◼ ► but it was a one liner that I didn't think to include myself which was to set the content type for the R. Says feed. [TS]
01:18:31 ◼ ► but now it's been an interesting experience that it was very it was very stressful the thought of open sourcing it as a [TS]
01:18:38 ◼ ► but I was so scared that by doing so everyone will realize that I don't really know anything about node or express [TS]
01:18:48 ◼ ► and it's held together in the same way that My Space was as we were talking about earlier. [TS]
01:18:54 ◼ ► But nobody's really come out of the woodwork to say that I'm completely off the reservation which is good [TS]
01:19:04 ◼ ► but no it's been pretty quiet I'd like having it up there that now the biggest home I have is that I feel like it's [TS]
01:19:09 ◼ ► feature complete I don't feel like I really want to add anything I've since since last episode I added my loose [TS]
01:19:21 ◼ ► But now that it's now I'm like really into it really excited about it but I don't have anything else to do. [TS]
01:19:27 ◼ ► Well I guess any new project you tweeted about like that the line counselor was like four hundred lines of code [TS]
01:19:33 ◼ ► but it was hearing all of the stats but it let me run it real quick it's going to take me a second [TS]
01:19:37 ◼ ► but what I tweeted was that I had roughly four hundred five lines trying to get there right now on. [TS]
01:19:47 ◼ ► I had roughly four hundred lines of code that I had written with C. Clock camel So let's see. [TS]
01:19:54 ◼ ► OK so four hundred forty lines of code for me right now that I wrote myself. Now I'm going to look at the new modules. [TS]
01:20:04 ◼ ► and it is nine hundred fifty six unique files ninety four thousand five hundred eighty lines of kind of how I feel less [TS]
01:20:13 ◼ ► bad about my ridiculous that a constant blogging thing because I was born in lines of code [TS]
01:20:26 ◼ ► and I like writing frameworks I like Marco I have this problem I like writing tools I like writing frameworks are not [TS]
01:20:34 ◼ ► and making a blog is first write a framework for making web occasions that I can read a blog using the framework. [TS]
01:20:40 ◼ ► Third you know like and so I have a tremendous number of lines but I have way less than ninety five thousand. [TS]
01:20:46 ◼ ► You know I was actually made my own and probably going to make your object systems I'm in my own object system [TS]
01:20:54 ◼ ► Yeah that's fantastic Yeah that definitely the best language of all the moronically which is all you can talk mature [TS]
01:21:00 ◼ ► javascript the javascript you're making your own object system too so let's not throw stones here [TS]
01:21:06 ◼ ► but we can make a class big system out of this prototype bassist amongst Anyway the amazing thing is that P.H.P. [TS]
01:21:12 ◼ ► Actually has a really good object system. It's probably the best between these three languages. [TS]
01:21:17 ◼ ► Well not to go on a sidebar the thing about products like the ability to build your own objects means that people keep [TS]
01:21:23 ◼ ► making your logic systems in Perl and it is allowed us to have five thousand different objects systems [TS]
01:21:28 ◼ ► and sort of you know evolutionary kind of lets that converge on something that's good to the bad ones go off and die [TS]
01:21:34 ◼ ► and we get new ones whereas if you have an object system built into a language and that's the only way you can do it. [TS]
01:21:43 ◼ ► but to move in a language with Perl it's like whoa throw away that one was crap you make a new one and go again [TS]
01:21:47 ◼ ► and again and so it is a little test tube for different not a different experiment [TS]
01:21:53 ◼ ► and a lot of the experiments that have been done in provider of will lead to Perl six [TS]
01:21:56 ◼ ► but anyway I feel better about my giant codebase. Because it is still way US lines that all those no modules. [TS]
01:22:04 ◼ ► Even though I happened to write all of them because you know it is likely remarked Well in so on the one side I tweeted [TS]
01:22:14 ◼ ► It was both remarkable that it took only four hundred fifty lines to write what I consider to be a full featured blog [TS]
01:22:23 ◼ ► but it's also remarkable that I'm leveraging basically a hundred thousand lines of other people's code in order to get [TS]
01:22:29 ◼ ► And on the one side I would tell you that that is a completely terrible idea to use that much code do you have no [TS]
01:22:37 ◼ ► control over and granted it's all open source but I don't have. I don't intend to to open up any of that source. [TS]
01:22:43 ◼ ► But on this side of the coin most of this code especially note the node community seems to be very into testing. [TS]
01:22:50 ◼ ► Let's show how to what the test coverage is how many of the tests are passing as of right now. [TS]
01:22:55 ◼ ► And so because of that I would argue that using all of this code is like how Marco talks about using my sequel because [TS]
01:23:04 ◼ ► and my sequels been proven it's been tested a million zillion people have used it and we know it's solid [TS]
01:23:12 ◼ ► but nevertheless I got to assume that most of them are pretty well tested pretty robust [TS]
01:23:17 ◼ ► and I really shouldn't have to worry about them so like I said half of me is freaking out about using a hundred [TS]
01:23:24 ◼ ► but the other half means like well actually it's probably for the best that I don't roll my own on all that stuff. [TS]
01:23:32 ◼ ► That's not even the beginning of the count of number of lines of other people's code using their own toboggan as a [TS]
01:23:36 ◼ ► targeting works like on the same thing as us like you know in fact I would say that's a good measure of the health of [TS]
01:23:43 ◼ ► the javascript ecosystem is like you only had to write the code that was relevant to the thing you were trying to make. [TS]
01:23:49 ◼ ► Yeah I think everything else you could use a library that was reasonably well known that you didn't have to like you [TS]
01:23:55 ◼ ► know do hunting one hundred around for something. There was something suitable for your needs. [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► Like it was a reason we all supported so I deserve all good things I was just you know [TS]
01:24:05 ◼ ► when you had said it was four hundred lines of code I was like wow I'm a really getting a lot more Democrat less lines [TS]
01:24:10 ◼ ► but then at the top of your thing you have a thousand require statements like that I make sense some of these libraries [TS]
01:24:19 ◼ ► and it's like tennis you know I get a comment for static strong language because I put it in air quotes here. [TS]
01:24:29 ◼ ► Thanks what two or three sponsors this week Bigloo new reality and nature box and we will see you next week. [TS]
01:25:15 ◼ ► and we talk about the format of your flower box comments here to do you know have you not decided how you're going to [TS]
01:25:45 ◼ ► handle things and Javascript is clearly evened out the job is good naming conventions of capitalization [TS]
01:25:53 ◼ ► but is that a formal use in C C four sponsored Is that a special thing that you may just read I was gripped. I'm. [TS]
01:26:11 ◼ ► and that's what I would do there's Well little bit less cold so to call it God I can pronounce that code faulting in [TS]
01:26:17 ◼ ► Objective C. In more about the dropdown at the top of the editor but anyways that's right that's right. [TS]
01:26:23 ◼ ► Integration right is not a feature of the language you're just. Yes yes yes exactly what you just said. [TS]
01:26:30 ◼ ► and I just wanted something that would catch my eye as I'm scrolling down the file [TS]
01:26:34 ◼ ► and so I thought a big three line comment would do the trick. Hideous troll would you have done like that. [TS]
01:26:46 ◼ ► No the flower box are OK so it's not symmetrical because you've got the beginning end of the comments like at angles to [TS]
01:26:52 ◼ ► each other upper left lower right so right away it's all the shape the sides of the box because of the way the font [TS]
01:26:59 ◼ ► spacing is a giant gaps in the side but really tight things on the top right and then inside it you have some text. [TS]
01:27:09 ◼ ► and the with the day to come to know is like sixty I don't even know I just randomly is wide enough it's sufficiently [TS]
01:27:19 ◼ ► This format for writing comment so I will I really think we have to see or could I do too. [TS]
01:27:24 ◼ ► Has the world ever seen your code in this time this time the stuff on SCI pedophilia feel free to go look at and laugh. [TS]
01:27:34 ◼ ► I mean like I update the things on the van frequently So like if you look at the date will be like two thousand [TS]
01:27:40 ◼ ► thirteen two thousand and fourteen but the vast majority of the code was written a long time. [TS]
01:27:43 ◼ ► That's not why it's hideous like it's just I mean if you look at what it does it's crazy you know. [TS]
01:27:47 ◼ ► I mean coat of ridge they were in the ninety's like so you know I put it up against anyone else's go they were in the [TS]
01:27:53 ◼ ► ninety's but I look at it now and it's very bad but aesthetically and formatting wise I'm very particular. [TS]
01:28:03 ◼ ► when there's a bunch of assignments with each other I'm very sensitive of the formatting of comments so they look nice [TS]
01:28:09 ◼ ► and don't add visual noise and I get upset when there is no sane way to indent stuff with spyware [TS]
01:28:15 ◼ ► or go insane with Objective C. Because sometimes it's like look this is not going to work out for anybody. [TS]
01:28:20 ◼ ► Just like these are really sure knew the really long and no matter how you ended up it looks weird yeah it is. [TS]
01:28:29 ◼ ► Good to see you basically has no standard that's good that's actually useful. Like I try to which came in R.C. [TS]
01:28:43 ◼ ► It's weird you had some similar problems in that there are some constructs that are just always ugly [TS]
01:28:49 ◼ ► and like there's no there's no system for formatting them all you know you can see [TS]
01:28:59 ◼ ► when the pieces you're moving around are of similar size whereas if you're in a language for the size these things can [TS]
01:29:04 ◼ ► vary wildly like really long class names and really sharp surnames and really short class names as just [TS]
01:29:14 ◼ ► and just no decision works that I get upset about that I like my code to be aesthetically guys who want to use Python [TS]
01:29:21 ◼ ► Isn't it part of the language to learn everything and have underscores in front of [TS]
01:29:38 ◼ ► Well even the funny thing about this code. Mike code in camel is that I tried my darndest. [TS]
01:29:51 ◼ ► Sharp which is when you have say like an if statement having the opening brace bracket brace brace on the same way. [TS]
01:30:00 ◼ ► See if statement I would prefer them so that the braces are all on the scene in the same column [TS]
01:30:06 ◼ ► and Java Script is not that way and so you know like in a function declaration is another example. [TS]
01:30:11 ◼ ► So function all post paginated you know some parameters open curly newline and I know it drives me crazy. [TS]
01:30:24 ◼ ► It's the worst I hate it but it's the Java Script way and I'm trying to trying to learn [TS]
01:30:28 ◼ ► and if you look at all the Perl code they disposed of the chat room like that was my chosen style you know I always Max [TS]
01:30:40 ◼ ► Like language but in my job for the past five years I've been doing it the other way [TS]
01:30:49 ◼ ► So now when I have to go at it my own code in like you know to fix bugs and I see band models or whatever. [TS]
01:30:56 ◼ ► and it's like I had you know a lot of is why I still maintain that that other way is better [TS]
01:31:07 ◼ ► but it is not something I was going to argue like it's not better enough to make a difference so you know there's not [TS]
01:31:13 ◼ ► only this code that I'm looking at of yours from Rose is absolutely terrible also aesthetically because it well in the [TS]
01:31:25 ◼ ► and yes I do know that that is that is an example of a style that I've changed I don't do that anymore. [TS]
01:31:32 ◼ ► and spaces after the my like there's many things I like in this code that I did not do any more at all. [TS]
01:31:36 ◼ ► What about the not operator of space not no I don't I don't I don't I don't go to space out of the not the not stuck to [TS]
01:31:43 ◼ ► the thing that is negating I agree that's weird. Yes it would be if space open for em not like a local. [TS]
01:31:52 ◼ ► but at least we can agree that we're not animals like the people who don't put space around binary operators like those [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► And there are people out there who will defend that it's like a water you know everyone can be out braces here braces [TS]
01:32:15 ◼ ► and there are people you think they don't exist I don't know if you have met I've met them these people are like no no [TS]
01:32:20 ◼ ► there should not be spaces around Eagles are you crazy you know plus equals mind if they just jam it all together [TS]
01:32:25 ◼ ► and you know it doesn't matter what the context knows people are just I don't know what happened in their life that [TS]
01:32:33 ◼ ► Had the stupid idea of let's make the string nation operator at the dock which is also used for other things [TS]
01:32:38 ◼ ► but it will point out that the street again operator editing they got that from the Pro way. [TS]
01:32:49 ◼ ► when you try to do stuff in Java Script of it as a number or a string you'll find out whatever following it. [TS]
01:32:58 ◼ ► but yes that was allowed to really discover the whole thing about like how javascript doesn't really have a good integer [TS]
01:33:05 ◼ ► type like like written a lot about everything slowed down that I was here yet so you have like you have basically the [TS]
01:33:13 ◼ ► equivalent of I think fifty three bit integers at best. So if you were using it sixty four then your app yet. [TS]
01:33:20 ◼ ► Good look at the Java Script and others that this is the money one of the many reasons the gyroscope sucks [TS]
01:33:25 ◼ ► and one of the many things that people who try to write serious applications and jobs here very soon discovered [TS]
01:33:30 ◼ ► and by the time that by the time they discover they're like it's a formal part of the learning would scream I think [TS]
01:33:35 ◼ ► it's so funny that like you know like just like like when Gruber and Brent Simmons did that video for Microsoft [TS]
01:33:42 ◼ ► and I said like Wouldn't it be funny if you went back to like you know two thousand and six Gruber and showed him this. [TS]
01:33:48 ◼ ► You know wouldn't be funny if you went back to two thousand and six programmers and said in two thousand [TS]
01:33:53 ◼ ► and fourteen the cool new hip language everyone is writing everything is javascript if you told me in twenty. [TS]
01:34:03 ◼ ► A little laugh in your face I absolutely would laughed in your face like oh so many other things like Objective C. [TS]
01:34:11 ◼ ► How web applications are cool if you know right away about the Asian Brown modern browsers run javascript really well [TS]
01:34:18 ◼ ► Suddenly Java Script this crappy language you know you can do cool things that people may hate Objective C. [TS]