00:00:01 ◼ ► If we wait another decade ninety's musical wraparound to become awesome like the eighty's music did well that just [TS]
00:00:14 ◼ ► and I kept waiting for myself to make a point to that I meant to make during the show [TS]
00:00:18 ◼ ► and it's conceivable that I stopped paying attention for three seconds and missed myself saying this. [TS]
00:00:24 ◼ ► So if I'm repeating if I'm repeating something I said in the very last show I apologize. [TS]
00:00:36 ◼ ► when we are talking a piece on like this is one of the major points I want to make [TS]
00:00:48 ◼ ► One of the innovations that the company that makes the P sell thing is supposedly bring to the table is the ability to [TS]
00:00:56 ◼ ► solve this problem that we discussed in the show are sort of solving for what signal needs to be sent out by all the [TS]
00:01:05 ◼ ► various towers so that the interference combines to make exactly the right signals in exactly the right place so not [TS]
00:01:13 ◼ ► but for two ten five thousand whatever every single one of those all the towers that are transmitting that could [TS]
00:01:19 ◼ ► possibly be overlapping in interfering with each other need to do so in such a way that every individual phone gets [TS]
00:01:29 ◼ ► And that as you can imagine requires fast communication between all the nodes but also a lot of processing power [TS]
00:01:36 ◼ ► and the Suppose that innovation that the companies bring I think Artemis is the name of it. [TS]
00:01:44 ◼ ► Hey everybody what signal do all these towers need to put out so exactly the right signals going to the right places to [TS]
00:02:00 ◼ ► Hard to solve and if we go for a thousand phones it's like a million times hard to solve there's no way we could do it. [TS]
00:02:14 ◼ ► and so that that's what allows this system to be possible that you know there are things we have the computing [TS]
00:02:23 ◼ ► and we have come up with a way to solve whatever this you know this problem is that to solve for the output that all [TS]
00:02:31 ◼ ► these cells towers need to put out to make constructive interference in just the right way and we can do it linearly. [TS]
00:02:37 ◼ ► So because if you couldn't do it any early you can imagine that maybe you were to work for like a trade show [TS]
00:02:42 ◼ ► but for an entire city with thousands upon thousands of cell phones if it didn't scale immediately you've got big [TS]
00:02:48 ◼ ► problems in terms of computing power and so that is one of perhaps the most important planned that [TS]
00:02:55 ◼ ► Networks are requiring special hardware on the handsets. Those two things are the two things that make peace possible. [TS]
00:03:05 ◼ ► All right and the next bit a follow up was actually for me for once it doesn't happen often [TS]
00:03:16 ◼ ► and occasionally Casey making vinyl references were discussing scaling and and the difference in scaling performance [TS]
00:03:25 ◼ ► when I'm writing web apps I don't use database joins I if I don't use them in local Abdi there [TS]
00:03:40 ◼ ► and you know basically to keep my options open for splitting up the database in the future [TS]
00:03:45 ◼ ► and also to shift as much work as possible onto the easy and cheap to scale web flash application servers [TS]
00:03:52 ◼ ► and leave the hard and expensive to scale database server with a viable workload is possible. Anyway so I got it. [TS]
00:04:05 ◼ ► and the people who agreed are typically people who had done it before who had who had worked on large large scale [TS]
00:04:16 ◼ ► and solved in the same way so of course they would agree because they they did the same way themselves. [TS]
00:04:24 ◼ ► Was that you you know we've never needed that in our organization or in our project [TS]
00:04:33 ◼ ► Might as well you know use database as much as you can and when you need it then you know then you cross that bridge [TS]
00:04:45 ◼ ► but basically I think that's kind of the wrong angle to approach scaling questions from. [TS]
00:05:04 ◼ ► And scaling well and building scalable systems means trying to anticipate some of those then what scenarios [TS]
00:05:12 ◼ ► and having a decent answer for it that's not going to involve rewrite half your code [TS]
00:05:17 ◼ ► and go through your whole code base and make sure you aren't using joint anywhere anymore. [TS]
00:05:27 ◼ ► and it could potentially introduce tons of books if you haven't written this way from the beginning [TS]
00:05:39 ◼ ► Time constraints because you're probably doing that because you hit an oak wrap moment in your scaling [TS]
00:05:44 ◼ ► and you realize oh wait a minute you know I've added the most RAM to this and I could possibly add [TS]
00:05:48 ◼ ► and it's not helping or this you know I've done everything I can with one box and it still isn't enough. What do I do. [TS]
00:06:04 ◼ ► or within reason you know you don't have to plan to be the next Facebook because you probably won't be. [TS]
00:06:09 ◼ ► And if you do become the next Facebook you can hire a bunch of Smarter people than you to do all this. [TS]
00:06:14 ◼ ► But even just going from from tiny to small or from small to mid size you're going to hit some of these questions [TS]
00:06:25 ◼ ► Staff you're not going to have infinite money you're not going to be infinite time [TS]
00:06:29 ◼ ► and so it's worth considering that because you know a lot of people would say oh this is about premature optimisation [TS]
00:06:36 ◼ ► and premature optimization is wrong period because that's you've heard that before it sounds good [TS]
00:06:41 ◼ ► and the fact is that's you know premature optimization is not always wrong or bad. It's a trade off. [TS]
00:06:47 ◼ ► You're trading it in most cases you're trading some complexity for some or a lot of performance and or [TS]
00:06:55 ◼ ► or you know in case of scaling options in the future for for better scaling are easier scaling or possible scaling [TS]
00:07:03 ◼ ► and so premature optimization and designing things to be scalable can be worthwhile if it's relatively easy [TS]
00:07:11 ◼ ► and if there's not a lot of major costs to it you know both in time and in maintenance and limitations in the app [TS]
00:07:18 ◼ ► and other things like if it's if it's relatively easy to make better decisions that make your app more scalable the [TS]
00:07:24 ◼ ► whole time you're designing it you should do it because it isn't you know it's like a best practice. [TS]
00:07:30 ◼ ► It isn't that much more work and you might never need but when you do need it you'll be very glad you have it. [TS]
00:07:37 ◼ ► So I guess that's it on that topic for now do you guys have any to follow up on scaling. [TS]
00:07:46 ◼ ► One war the people who are saying that it sounded like you're using bicycle without using any relational features so [TS]
00:07:53 ◼ ► here are a bunch of non relational data storage that you could use instead so as a couple people had and then. [TS]
00:08:02 ◼ ► but I thought it was a good point that we didn't get to that depending on the nature of your application if you have [TS]
00:08:07 ◼ ► something that's sort of non interactive and trivially silo a ball you could get away with. [TS]
00:08:13 ◼ ► You know you would have to worry about this joint type thing because all you would do is just sort of shore it up by [TS]
00:08:21 ◼ ► And at that point like this you know then you have your entire scale you know are a lot of scaling strategies entirely [TS]
00:08:30 ◼ ► and you just need some way to figure out where this user has been is and that could be something super fast [TS]
00:08:41 ◼ ► and that point if you do joins against the bins it doesn't matter all it does is make you have to cut them into pieces [TS]
00:08:46 ◼ ► and there are easy social applications are not like this where you have to wear this some sort of global awareness [TS]
00:08:58 ◼ ► but it was a good point to like it really it really depends on the shape of your system what what does the state look [TS]
00:09:03 ◼ ► like in your thing what state are you tracking how is the state related to the other states. [TS]
00:09:13 ◼ ► nor will there be in the future you can get away with just starting by you know by a user. [TS]
00:09:19 ◼ ► and I agree like you know if you have something like for instance if you look at something like this [TS]
00:09:25 ◼ ► and ask for fresh books these like these hosted applications that you know they create a little little site [TS]
00:09:33 ◼ ► and these are by definition very private things that no one none of their other customers need ever need to access your [TS]
00:09:40 ◼ ► data in fact there it should be it should not be possible for them to access your data. [TS]
00:09:45 ◼ ► when you have something that is that strictly divided by user where the users will never have to interact with each [TS]
00:09:51 ◼ ► other or their or their data it makes sense to then do that kind of starting there. [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► General purpose service kind of thing like there's there are so many options for cross data referencing [TS]
00:10:07 ◼ ► and you know if you if you start out with a system that charted in that way then first of all you are that is a pretty [TS]
00:10:17 ◼ ► big limitation you put on yourself and your development and it does that complexity and does that managing the plexi. [TS]
00:10:23 ◼ ► So that's the kind of thing that I would be very careful to decide if you're to say that up front to do that in the [TS]
00:10:28 ◼ ► beginning I would be very careful that decision because that really will limit you later [TS]
00:10:36 ◼ ► or you might have to pivot it into something that that has a little bit more data cross over. [TS]
00:10:44 ◼ ► Even the consumer facing systems doesn't like real systems that are out there a lot of the times they will take the [TS]
00:10:56 ◼ ► when you scale things you can end up breaking breaking apart the fun the functionality of your application which is [TS]
00:11:02 ◼ ► but just like in the grand scheme of things that may be user information could be shored up nicely by user [TS]
00:11:07 ◼ ► but then all the interrelated information has an entirely different back end with entirely different scaling strange [TS]
00:11:11 ◼ ► like you end up you know the whole service oriented architecture thing you end up with different pieces of your [TS]
00:11:16 ◼ ► application scaling in different ways we very often it's not there is no one master scaling solution for your entire [TS]
00:11:23 ◼ ► and like the logon flow is like this session management like this user information is like this. [TS]
00:11:27 ◼ ► Relationship Management is like this I mean one of the great examples I remember I wrote a story a while back about how [TS]
00:11:33 ◼ ► linked in a fairly standard looking back and except for the part that handled all the relationships [TS]
00:11:40 ◼ ► and feeling bad for them because it's like you know that's built in time bomb for scale like they're raised they're [TS]
00:11:46 ◼ ► raising Moore's Law to see Will the amount of the relationship information linked in get big faster than we can buy [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► I didn't use that same scaling strategy for the user information was just for the relations information which is [TS]
00:12:12 ◼ ► Didn't have to ask for Tumblr probably will never out that's running your applications [TS]
00:12:15 ◼ ► but I think a lot of people thinking about that then what should consider is the idea of making database accesses from [TS]
00:12:27 ◼ ► or any application for that matter like the code that is running your thing it connects to a database. [TS]
00:12:32 ◼ ► Very often in these large applications need to find somewhere to scale they have to put a layer in between there so you [TS]
00:12:38 ◼ ► want some kind of data access layer that does not connect to the database to get information [TS]
00:12:46 ◼ ► or any of these like things that basically you're going to put your projects equal in your code somewhere right. [TS]
00:12:52 ◼ ► And you like well it doesn't matter you don't see the sequel thoughts tracked it away a bit like essentially what [TS]
00:12:56 ◼ ► you're making is is a front end to do sequel great story like if I needed to I could swap that out for something [TS]
00:13:05 ◼ ► and so if you make a data access layer that is agnostic to the destination either you make it work over a sheet from [TS]
00:13:14 ◼ ► and they get you that information you like well that seems like it's going to be slower [TS]
00:13:17 ◼ ► and it seems like a waste of time and I'm never going to do that maybe you're right [TS]
00:13:20 ◼ ► but in my experience a lot of applications one of the first things they run into you know if they have perfect [TS]
00:13:25 ◼ ► horizontal scale ability in terms of charting users because that type of thing so it's like a B. To B. [TS]
00:13:29 ◼ ► Business where you're always you know your customers do want their stings to be solid like it was no problem will [TS]
00:13:37 ◼ ► and most especially using relational database most relational database products are not made to support the number of [TS]
00:13:47 ◼ ► and so you have to conserve those database connections you need some sort of I mean there David action pulling all the [TS]
00:13:52 ◼ ► but in general if you divorce your application as much as possible from where it's getting its information even though [TS]
00:14:00 ◼ ► Having some sort of transport layer in there like even something is done that they should be paid for some kind of you [TS]
00:14:04 ◼ ► know again service oriented architecture thing that seems terrible performance for performance [TS]
00:14:11 ◼ ► and that's why people say now do you know the case is probably you know he was complaining about having to make a round [TS]
00:14:16 ◼ ► trip to the database for multiple you know imagine if you had to make an agent something then that something would [TS]
00:14:21 ◼ ► potentially go to it as even more overhead and yes you are sacrificing performance [TS]
00:14:25 ◼ ► and complexity for a long axes that you think you might need to you know you might need to that [TS]
00:14:38 ◼ ► Or you know like having having the application correctly connect directly to databases that you know a security concern [TS]
00:14:50 ◼ ► and different you know I do everything already dipping into geographic load balancing [TS]
00:15:00 ◼ ► Just one more than what I've I've come across many times in my working career and every time I've either designed [TS]
00:15:06 ◼ ► or been working an application that connects to a database I've regretted it. But your mileage may vary. [TS]
00:15:11 ◼ ► Now I agree on that and I'm pretty sure I don't actually know this for sure because when I left I actually did leave. [TS]
00:15:17 ◼ ► But but I'm pretty sure at Tumblr that was that was like one of the big things they did. [TS]
00:15:23 ◼ ► Pretty soon after I left like once they got like a more experienced staff in there who would work on systems of that [TS]
00:15:31 ◼ ► and he wanted to reach the levels that it was it was getting pretty far beyond my ability to scale it myself and [TS]
00:15:38 ◼ ► and that's that's when the first thing they did was move to that kind of architecture [TS]
00:15:41 ◼ ► and that does make sense that is one of those things again where I'd like I think you can go a pretty long way without [TS]
00:15:50 ◼ ► and it's it's a premature optimization that you you know it might be worth it for you to do that in my case it almost [TS]
00:15:58 ◼ ► never is. And it never will never has been so far but certainly that is something that might be worth doing. [TS]
00:16:05 ◼ ► I don't like that phrase of his like it built into premature optimization prematurely saying you're doing it sooner [TS]
00:16:13 ◼ ► and that's one of the the vocabulary tools wielded by programmers in arguments like well that's a premature [TS]
00:16:18 ◼ ► optimization but it's a tautology like you are asserting that is premature by calling it premature. [TS]
00:16:26 ◼ ► or is it not too I think that's the whole argument they were supposed to be having [TS]
00:16:32 ◼ ► That just explains what your position is the new stuff to defend it's all these accusations what you're saying Marco is [TS]
00:16:36 ◼ ► like they're not premature This is in fact exactly the right time to do it because my expectation is X. Y. and Z. [TS]
00:16:42 ◼ ► and You're arguing about like are we ever going to get big as we as we scale which thing will break first like you have [TS]
00:16:48 ◼ ► to basically said what is our maximum possible size what's the first thing that's going to fall over. [TS]
00:16:52 ◼ ► How long can we go doing joins How long can we go directly connecting to the database you just can map them out [TS]
00:16:59 ◼ ► or have arguments about like which one you think is going to come first and then you know you live [TS]
00:17:02 ◼ ► and learn applications change shape as you go and it will be a make some bad choices [TS]
00:17:10 ◼ ► and we had this thing before we had that thing so you're always trying to get you know second guess the future is [TS]
00:17:17 ◼ ► and do ones that you know are not premature in fact exactly the right time to do them [TS]
00:17:22 ◼ ► and to to know what that is you have to just you kind of have to guess but you use your experience [TS]
00:17:27 ◼ ► and your knowledge of building similar applications in the past you know like maybe maybe instead of thinking of them [TS]
00:17:37 ◼ ► and the other the only other thing I would say about that about having that multitude architecture is for whatever it's [TS]
00:17:44 ◼ ► worth if database connections are your problem you're in a weird situation I've never seen before. [TS]
00:18:00 ◼ ► The connecting disconnect is another thing a lot of especially you know old school relational databases are not [TS]
00:18:07 ◼ ► and you know how many users can try to connect to Davis once say one hundred thousand users want to connect at the same [TS]
00:18:12 ◼ ► What does I do versus those hundred thousand users being spread out over a minute over thirty seconds over one second. [TS]
00:18:22 ◼ ► but now you have people tying up connections and now you're the number you know. I see it all the time now. [TS]
00:18:28 ◼ ► That's probably more you know you sick specific with whatever your application actually is and how [TS]
00:18:37 ◼ ► and how good your pooling solution is because again relational databases depending on their vintage may [TS]
00:18:41 ◼ ► or may not have robust pooling solutions to Google scale or one of the fun things is you run out of port numbers. [TS]
00:18:50 ◼ ► and they like you know it's like a sixteen the number you get sixty five thousand a murder ever [TS]
00:18:54 ◼ ► and I think you mean like LET YOU hundred runs a limitation of the operating system like well this machine could [TS]
00:19:07 ◼ ► Yeah well that's what Google's for to find those limits and actually hatch a Linux you know overcome them [TS]
00:19:15 ◼ ► I never got into the level where I had to start tweaking kernel settings things like that. [TS]
00:19:18 ◼ ► Like we would just we would use the kernel stock because that was like I would like [TS]
00:19:23 ◼ ► and I get I don't know if I don't know what tumbler situation is now to get their way bigger naturally now that the [TS]
00:19:37 ◼ ► And yeah anyway we are sponsored this week by our friends once again at help spot. [TS]
00:19:43 ◼ ► Now if you're still using email clients for customer support you're probably losing track of important tickets trying [TS]
00:19:49 ◼ ► to use mark as unread as an organizational tool and I am in co-workers to see who's working on what. [TS]
00:19:54 ◼ ► It's time to get organized. Now most helpdesk apps try to be all things to all people. [TS]
00:20:00 ◼ ► How to Spy on the other hand is focused. It deals only with customer inquiries and self serve knowledge bases. [TS]
00:20:06 ◼ ► There's no asset management password reset ing or other unnecessary features to get in your way [TS]
00:20:13 ◼ ► Now helpdesk software is usually really expensive a lot of times it's around six hundred dollars per user per year. [TS]
00:20:19 ◼ ► For instance now helps but is just to ninety nine per user one time and that's it you own it for life with health [TS]
00:20:28 ◼ ► You can download it and host it yourself or you can have it hosted for you so you have those options available [TS]
00:20:33 ◼ ► and either way even if they host it for you you always have direct access to the database [TS]
00:20:42 ◼ ► Helspont been around for a long time it's not some new startup it's been available for nearly a decade [TS]
00:20:49 ◼ ► and organizations customers from single person startups to Fortune five hundred companies use Helspont to manager [TS]
00:20:59 ◼ ► For a free trial today and you can get a hundred dollars off your purchase if you use the coupon code A.T.P. [TS]
00:21:09 ◼ ► and Get a hundred dollars off your purchase when you the coupon code A.T.P. Fourteen. [TS]
00:21:20 ◼ ► and I think it applies to both of you want to start with you Marco So how do you how do you get outside of your comfort [TS]
00:21:28 ◼ ► zone and learn something new and what if if you think about your history you wrote tumblr in P.H.P.. [TS]
00:21:37 ◼ ► You wrote Instapaper in P.H.P. Yes My sequel for both the magazine P.H.P. In my sequel now overcast P.H.P. [TS]
00:21:43 ◼ ► and My sequel even second crack which was kind of a for fun pet project with P.H.P. [TS]
00:21:49 ◼ ► In my sequel are like it's not my sequel that P.H.P. What how do you how do you learn something new. [TS]
00:22:02 ◼ ► when you need to because the only thing the only example that I can think of knowing your history is [TS]
00:22:06 ◼ ► when you learned I was development for instance paper but have what have you done since then [TS]
00:22:11 ◼ ► and what cued me off on this was everyone saying you should look at an NEO no sequel databases [TS]
00:22:21 ◼ ► Well it's a combination of factors I mean one is certainly that I'm not very good at making myself learn new things [TS]
00:22:28 ◼ ► about don't have to you know that's that's just a character flaw I guess that's you know no question that's one of the [TS]
00:22:34 ◼ ► But also there's two others one is conservatism that you know I been on the cutting edge before I have I have lived in [TS]
00:22:45 ◼ ► the cutting edge world before and it's a lot of work and it's a lot of maintenance [TS]
00:22:50 ◼ ► and versions of weird things running on your server that crash in the middle of night need attention [TS]
00:22:57 ◼ ► You know that because of just your bring such a new version of things are such a new technology that has really had all [TS]
00:23:06 ◼ ► So that's another big part of it that I just I I'm now at a point where I want to avoid those kind of costs if I can. [TS]
00:23:14 ◼ ► And sometimes it's worth the cost so for instance on overcast servers I've decided to run a V.M. [TS]
00:23:26 ◼ ► and I'm probably one of probably going to either so I was setting up my load balancing today [TS]
00:23:30 ◼ ► and I'm probably going to have two web front end V.M.S. To start and one of them are running one of them run P.H.P. [TS]
00:23:36 ◼ ► So if it crashes we really are STILL have you know something to take up the slack until I fix it. [TS]
00:23:45 ◼ ► Generally speaking I try to avoid those kind of bleeding that the cost of being on the bleeding edge because I've [TS]
00:23:52 ◼ ► You might have a different calculation on that for whatever your application might be for me I've just decided it's not [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Obviously there's there's a lot of things that I could learn besides P.H.P. and My S.Q.L. and An Objective C. [TS]
00:24:06 ◼ ► There's a lot of things I could learn that are that are mature and are far from being on the bleeding edge these days. [TS]
00:24:11 ◼ ► And for most of those I haven't simply because it hasn't yet been really necessary. [TS]
00:24:18 ◼ ► and I have to weigh whether it's worth going through the learning period going through a period of finding all of the [TS]
00:24:25 ◼ ► intricate details of the behavior and finding out the best ways to do things and and learning the A.P.I. [TS]
00:24:34 ◼ ► And I'm at that point with the technologies I know now for the most part and for me to learn a whole new language [TS]
00:24:45 ◼ ► and I've decided that for what I'm doing currently it's not work that I'm part of that. [TS]
00:24:50 ◼ ► Obviously like on the on the Iowa side I don't think there's anything I can learn that would be better than Objective [TS]
00:24:56 ◼ ► I don't think there are any any better things really than you know for for what I'm doing I think I'm using the best [TS]
00:25:01 ◼ ► things already for the Web site certainly you can do a lot better than P.H.P. These days.. [TS]
00:25:07 ◼ ► I still would argue that that might not be the case for my S.Q.L. but Certainly you can do a lot better than P.H.P. [TS]
00:25:14 ◼ ► The main reason I haven't gone there on the web side is not only that I don't really need to know if something's [TS]
00:25:26 ◼ ► but also I just don't care that much about the Web site I am not that interested in running cutting edge web stuff [TS]
00:25:33 ◼ ► or even learning new web stuff I don't really have to learn because the Web site to me is a supporting role I am I am [TS]
00:25:40 ◼ ► not making a web app that happens to have an i O. S. Client. I'm making an I O. S. [TS]
00:25:45 ◼ ► Happen happen to have a web backend and that's where my focus is I care so much more because I was [TS]
00:25:51 ◼ ► and that's why I want to be cutting edge on the Iowa side I want to be doing everything right on the Iowa side [TS]
00:26:02 ◼ ► and it's it's more important for me like I don't care about new stuff I'm very interested in learning new framework for [TS]
00:26:08 ◼ ► I.O.'s like it felt like when when so much of the school stuff it's come around like Grand Central Dispatch [TS]
00:26:13 ◼ ► and stuff like that like so much of this cool stuff come around that I was really into I love that stuff I find it very [TS]
00:26:20 ◼ ► New web stuff I just don't care about its I I don't care what web programming I really don't enjoy web programming [TS]
00:26:27 ◼ ► and I do it because I have to to build the products I want so that you know that the primary goal is I like client side [TS]
00:26:40 ◼ ► and so the web codebase is really just a you know supporting role for that so for me my my priority there is just get [TS]
00:26:48 ◼ ► I don't want to spend a ton of time on it just get it done so they can do what I need to do not [TS]
00:27:15 ◼ ► and granted it makes perfect sense that you would use something you're familiar with especially for a project that's [TS]
00:27:26 ◼ ► and I do it for fun I tend to force myself to use a different technology for example I wrote fast text which was which [TS]
00:27:39 ◼ ► and I have been dabbling with writing my own kind of second crack let's call it third crack for the sake of a [TS]
00:27:45 ◼ ► conversation I've been using node because I've heard a lot of great things about No no I wanted to try that actually [TS]
00:27:54 ◼ ► Perhaps because you don't have a corporate stooge job so you have a lot more control over your own destiny. But. [TS]
00:28:06 ◼ ► when I don't learn a new language in about a six months to one year window I start to get kind of crabby [TS]
00:28:12 ◼ ► and angsty in anxious and I really need to learn something new and it seems like for better [TS]
00:28:26 ◼ ► I totally get that but I have different areas than that in the web language I use. [TS]
00:28:31 ◼ ► Second crack for those who don't know or care they can crack is my is my custom static blogging engine that I wrote [TS]
00:28:37 ◼ ► and it's it's just like a bunch of command line scripts basically and they're all written in P.H.P. [TS]
00:28:41 ◼ ► and I'm probably the only person in the universe using P.H.P. To write command line scripts and that's fine. [TS]
00:28:48 ◼ ► and that you're right that totally would have been a great opportunity to try new language it was a small project with [TS]
00:28:53 ◼ ► small needs that was not very pressing to get it done quickly and doesn't need to scale really. [TS]
00:29:01 ◼ ► and maybe some time I will rewrite that because where it's it's pretty crappy really I mean so maybe you [TS]
00:29:07 ◼ ► and maybe cinema rewrite in something else. But you know part of the reason why as you said I don't have a day job. [TS]
00:29:20 ◼ ► That's part of that's part of the problem you work for yourself is that any time you're able to do work like that it's [TS]
00:29:27 ◼ ► potentially taking away from your quote work like your official work that you're actually getting paid for trying to [TS]
00:29:33 ◼ ► get done and I forget exactly which project I was procrastinating on when I wrote second crack. [TS]
00:29:39 ◼ ► I'm pretty sure it was probably Instapaper but I'm not I'm not positive on the timing on that. [TS]
00:29:47 ◼ ► and so I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it so I that's why as I figured let me just use P.H.P. [TS]
00:29:52 ◼ ► Because I can get it done very quickly with P.H.P. I don't want to be a big time sink then that makes sense. [TS]
00:30:00 ◼ ► All learn tons you know as I said like I try to keep up as much as I can with with I specially low level stuff like for [TS]
00:30:15 ◼ ► and I'm not sure if I've said that publicly before I think I have so there shouldn't be a big surprise [TS]
00:30:19 ◼ ► but I'm playing audio files and I'm not using a V. Player and if you've ever worked on the stuff you should know. [TS]
00:30:27 ◼ ► Therefore what that means I'm using rock or audio and that this is an amazing learning process [TS]
00:30:34 ◼ ► and probably I didn't need to do that you know I have some reasons why I did it but I probably didn't need to. [TS]
00:30:47 ◼ ► but I wanted certain though the control I want to learn the stuff so I mean extensive use of things like the Accelerate [TS]
00:30:55 ◼ ► Functions so these functions that basically vectorize operation the new SIMD instructions to fight that to really make [TS]
00:31:03 ◼ ► these things awesomely fast if possible and I'm using that stuff all over the place in so many ways [TS]
00:31:09 ◼ ► and so I'm learning things like that I'm learning various different concurrency strategies and [TS]
00:31:15 ◼ ► and you know doing things like the crazy ring buffer for the for the buffering of the samples I'm reading from the [TS]
00:31:23 ◼ ► That's all really interesting to me this is all you know that's where I've been learning is in overcast client side [TS]
00:31:34 ◼ ► So John what about you because your day job has been as far as I know pretty much forever in Perl. [TS]
00:31:50 ◼ ► or all the things that I've put on my own playlists actually besides my job over the years. [TS]
00:31:54 ◼ ► You know writing virus tech they go it embodies much more of a pod casting more recently. [TS]
00:32:00 ◼ ► Much Time for Fun program products like I wrote my own little static blogging engine thing [TS]
00:32:07 ◼ ► Yes Well speaking of fun product it really was a practical thing and my you know I just want to get done quickly. [TS]
00:32:16 ◼ ► and I intentionally stop myself from making it good because it was like you know this is something I know how to do I [TS]
00:32:25 ◼ ► and be awesome in this cool features like no make it as dumb as possible get done with it like this I was at that point [TS]
00:32:30 ◼ ► I was trying to not distract myself from writing which of not strike myself from writing any more by making the engine [TS]
00:32:35 ◼ ► but I'm also not writing but anyway back then it was like Don't spend time writing the engine you do this all day. [TS]
00:32:42 ◼ ► Make the dumbest thing you can possibly do that works and I did and it's super dumb [TS]
00:32:46 ◼ ► and you know it didn't stop me from writing but the thing that I think has made me like try new things and stuff [TS]
00:32:53 ◼ ► or whatever is kind of the the brutal nature of the tech job market starting in the mid to late ninety's [TS]
00:33:00 ◼ ► and that I've had a lot of jobs and you know like how did I get to use them S.Q.L. My S.Q.L. [TS]
00:33:07 ◼ ► Sequelae Oracle Informix post-arrest like you're not going to get experience in all those databases probably in one [TS]
00:33:15 ◼ ► place even if you're there from the beginning when it's like three guys. Maybe I'll touch on one or two of them. [TS]
00:33:20 ◼ ► But like how will you ever take a in-depth survey of all these different areas projects where you do it by taking [TS]
00:33:30 ◼ ► There is no database you get to pick something a second place maybe is my sequence there [TS]
00:33:36 ◼ ► when you make commitments like that like they tend to last for a long time you know if you're somebody coming they're [TS]
00:33:41 ◼ ► already using Oracle you are going to come in there you know you know what I really like to try out post-crisis like [TS]
00:33:50 ◼ ► and language is the same way like if you're a web developer Yes everybody that works has use Perl in some fashion [TS]
00:34:00 ◼ ► For example the company where I use post-arrest extensively a huge amount of the code was in stored procedures [TS]
00:34:05 ◼ ► and post-arrest and various points I was mostly a post present day to based designer slash sword procedure writer [TS]
00:34:16 ◼ ► And like if you're writing an application that is mostly essentially a java script application that just talks to to a [TS]
00:34:21 ◼ ► faceless backend the face is back and it's pretty boring and the entire application lives on the client side [TS]
00:34:30 ◼ ► It's it's not a node where it's you know server side javascript client side but all the frameworks like what [TS]
00:34:35 ◼ ► and what framework are using you know how do I get these frameworks going from plain old Dom to like prototype dojo [TS]
00:34:41 ◼ ► Jake Weary you know angular Amber's backbone underscore like how do you get to use all those you're not going to use [TS]
00:34:48 ◼ ► all that one place because once you start building application on top of one of those you're probably going to keep [TS]
00:34:53 ◼ ► and so well you know degrees real popular now so we should really we really pick the wrong parts [TS]
00:34:58 ◼ ► when you decide to do everything with prototype and you know rails at that a little bit [TS]
00:35:01 ◼ ► and to some degree as well as like well you know how many thousands of lines are in this application now do you want to [TS]
00:35:10 ◼ ► and so yeah changing jobs not using not voluntarily but more like you know the company starts to go down the tubes [TS]
00:35:20 ◼ ► or whatever you getting a job it's a new opportunity learn a lot of new things even if the whole time like I'm just a [TS]
00:35:25 ◼ ► web developer as a web developer Meanwhile developer means being multi-lingual learning you name it like even C.S.S. [TS]
00:35:32 ◼ ► You don't know if you know that if you know the specs but there's all languages on top of the I has like less [TS]
00:35:37 ◼ ► You'll find yourself learning new languages all the time just to keep up with the constant amazing churn in web [TS]
00:35:46 ◼ ► and you will build products on whatever the web technologies are at the time that your company choose or you choose [TS]
00:35:52 ◼ ► and then you go to the next shop they'll be different set of technologies not that I enjoy moving jobs I don't I wish I [TS]
00:35:56 ◼ ► could say one job for you know I don't I don't like switching jobs I find it stressful. [TS]
00:36:02 ◼ ► and I think that has forced me more than anything to learn new technologies that make sense. [TS]
00:36:07 ◼ ► I'm a little surprised that neither of you seems to dedicate the time outside of work to do this. [TS]
00:36:22 ◼ ► I mean I read a lot about it like I mean what I had about you know I have never written a significant program Objective [TS]
00:36:28 ◼ ► but I feel like I know the language I don't you know and I'm never in any way these frameworks [TS]
00:36:35 ◼ ► and of like well I just read a lot of books about it is true I did read a lot of articles I read a lot of books read a [TS]
00:36:41 ◼ ► lot of Ruby Python code read a lot. No Jazz code read headers from cocoa then to see what it's like. [TS]
00:36:47 ◼ ► but I feel like by surveying them I am I don't know if it's the same thing as like it's certainly not the same thing as [TS]
00:36:56 ◼ ► and so it's not entirely alien to like why am I reading these big these big long Russ tutorials want to read all the [TS]
00:37:01 ◼ ► documentation about go. Because I have a project in mind as we're going to use them. [TS]
00:37:07 ◼ ► I think reading through it gives you an idea of what it might be like to program and actually I did. [TS]
00:37:18 ◼ ► and I think if I were to go through the trouble of learning a whole new web language that might be the one I would go [TS]
00:37:24 ◼ ► to because it seems like it's made with with my sensibilities pretty well aligned. [TS]
00:37:30 ◼ ► So anyway this should be a great opportunity to talk about our second sponsor which is Lynda dot com that is L Y N D A [TS]
00:37:37 ◼ ► dot com Lynda dot com offers thousands of online video courses in software creative and business skills. [TS]
00:37:51 ◼ ► When the dot com works the software companies to provide you with updated training the same day a new version hits the [TS]
00:38:00 ◼ ► Levels whether you're a beginner or advanced user of these things. Now you get all of this. [TS]
00:38:05 ◼ ► Twenty four hundred courses one low monthly price gets you all this to flat rate twenty five dollars a month for [TS]
00:38:15 ◼ ► Now I I mean I've seen some of their videos I've I've learned a lot from them for my podcast editing I went through [TS]
00:38:25 ◼ ► and it's it's great I mean you got to see this you know Katie Holmes last time you got to see like how you know they [TS]
00:38:38 ◼ ► and then you can scroll to the transcript to jump to any point videos you can make skim through [TS]
00:38:42 ◼ ► and you can see oh I want to I want to hear about this topic right here in the transcript click on that because that [TS]
00:38:47 ◼ ► point the video really well done. You can watch them on your i Pad and everything it's fantastic. [TS]
00:38:55 ◼ ► Now relative to our recent discussions they have language they have courses in web development for instance that you [TS]
00:39:02 ◼ ► can learn no J.S. You can learn angular Jass or copy script or as many people would tell me to learn. No S.Q.L. [TS]
00:39:12 ◼ ► They have all these things you can also there's a whole course they recently added called programming for i OS seven [TS]
00:39:19 ◼ ► for non-programmers so you can learn how to make an app if you're not a programmer there actually are about two [TS]
00:39:26 ◼ ► and yet who aren't programmers you you three people can finally learn to program if you want to programming for [TS]
00:39:34 ◼ ► non-programmers for i OS seven this great course on the dot com You can even they recently so recently Adobe launched [TS]
00:39:44 ◼ ► and they have a course on that so you can learn how to edit your photos and manage them on the go. [TS]
00:39:49 ◼ ► So this is all really fantastic stuff. It's high quality stuff made by people at the top of their fields. [TS]
00:39:54 ◼ ► These are not like the little homemade youtube videos you see. Really fantastic quality. [TS]
00:40:03 ◼ ► We also because of this self I really can't recommend them enough fantastic So thanks a lot to Lynda dot com L Y N D A [TS]
00:40:27 ◼ ► and they've announced in a West End beta program for regular people for non developers this is surprising to me. [TS]
00:40:41 ◼ ► I wasn't so old I can remember definitively one thing details of the old capitol three Developer her grandma [TS]
00:40:51 ◼ ► and right now it's like ninety nine dollars for the Iowa step program ninety nine dollars for the for the OST [TS]
00:40:59 ◼ ► and those prices were a step down from the old program which was like you could be a select developer for like five [TS]
00:41:09 ◼ ► and there was no I always told her maybe there was merely a at the tail end of that. [TS]
00:41:20 ◼ ► and the things I can't remember at the freak here where the you got early seeds of the earlier us ten betas are not. [TS]
00:41:28 ◼ ► Yeah so some I can write and tell me the exact details of what the free programs are like [TS]
00:41:32 ◼ ► but anyway this is kind of a return to the free things like hey you can be a registered developer kind of sort of not [TS]
00:41:39 ◼ ► but it's not like if you're just interested in getting the pre-release software sign up for free you don't have to pay [TS]
00:41:44 ◼ ► ninety nine dollars because I assume you're not going to you're not going to write your applications you just want to [TS]
00:41:47 ◼ ► get the early versions of the OS which a lot of people did back in the day it's like well you got to be part of the [TS]
00:41:52 ◼ ► program if you want early releases so you know even if you're not going to make your own application [TS]
00:42:00 ◼ ► I'm not writing mac applications but I have been a member of the mac developer program paying member for just years [TS]
00:42:13 ◼ ► and I soon nothing else except for just the early releases like no you know no developer technical support incidents no [TS]
00:42:19 ◼ ► ability to sign apps and upload them to the apps aren't all that other stuff but a way for regular people. [TS]
00:42:26 ◼ ► So you do need an Apple ID You do need to agree to a confidentiality thing where you're not going to talk about you [TS]
00:42:33 ◼ ► and so forth you do agree to let Apple like collect diagnostics from your computer [TS]
00:42:37 ◼ ► and all the other normal stuff that you might imagine agreeing to if you decided to run Beta software. [TS]
00:42:44 ◼ ► How about Apple and in return you get to see an early peek at things. So are you surprised by this. [TS]
00:42:51 ◼ ► Not really because like you know like they're not first of all these people are not going to assume they're not going [TS]
00:42:57 ◼ ► to get the same seeds the developers get it's going to probably Apple's going to take their time [TS]
00:43:04 ◼ ► and of those Apple pick like here's one seed that everybody gets in and will be a bunch of devotees [TS]
00:43:11 ◼ ► but nobody's getting anything until someone goes on stage shows you know the new features [TS]
00:43:16 ◼ ► and stuff is not as if you will be seeing some secret thing before everyone else everyone's going to see unstated of [TS]
00:43:24 ◼ ► and you know at that point like well who cares if you get do you get that every day you see Bill do you get to build a [TS]
00:43:30 ◼ ► couple weeks after that like the cat's out of the bag so I don't think that by signing up that's allowed to pay any [TS]
00:43:35 ◼ ► and I get to know all of Apple secrets you're not going to know any secrets like continue to go to the rumor sites if [TS]
00:43:40 ◼ ► you want to see for the screen shots of Suppose that you know unreleased things this is merely a way to let you you [TS]
00:43:46 ◼ ► know basically Apple is doing this because I think they want to wider testability of their west [TS]
00:43:55 ◼ ► There is one more people to try stuff out so they're not surprised when they really something to the pub. [TS]
00:44:03 ◼ ► and they have probably a less diverse set of hardware than than the market at large. [TS]
00:44:08 ◼ ► And so I would prefer I think to get a wider testing of it so I said not not right away into certain builds [TS]
00:44:18 ◼ ► or three releases leading up to it these are the ones we want to test widely to check for you know can driver [TS]
00:44:28 ◼ ► and make their software more robust it's not it's not them doing you a favor to let you see the software it is entirely [TS]
00:44:35 ◼ ► hey we really need a wider testing base for you know a certain point in the development of our oil as it comes a point [TS]
00:44:41 ◼ ► where we say we we know all we can know with our small set of internal testing and Q.A. [TS]
00:44:49 ◼ ► If anyone want to sign up for a wider beta we would love to know like if something's crashing on some obscure [TS]
00:44:55 ◼ ► configuration that we don't have here and we can collect the data and figure it out [TS]
00:45:02 ◼ ► But I think the mac is like a safe place to try out this type of program you know I tend to agree. [TS]
00:45:08 ◼ ► I thought that there were a couple of interesting things that came from this firstly something that occurred to me was [TS]
00:45:22 ◼ ► and a little bit more community involvement I know especially after Microsoft build. [TS]
00:45:32 ◼ ► and Apple's approach to developers Now granted this isn't a developer specific program [TS]
00:45:37 ◼ ► and that's kind of what I'm driving at is that you would think if Apple was going to reach out into the public at all [TS]
00:45:44 ◼ ► in any capacity that perhaps it would be to be a little more friendly to developers I agree with what you said John [TS]
00:45:55 ◼ ► but it just seems kind of unfortunate that they're reaching out to the wrong group in the US. [TS]
00:46:00 ◼ ► Nothing I was I was thinking about was what if they've learned from Iowa seven and I was seven. [TS]
00:46:08 ◼ ► Even though a lot of the Nerds knew it was going to look really different in really flat [TS]
00:46:13 ◼ ► and that's really how you would describe it but you know I mean it was it has depth [TS]
00:46:17 ◼ ► and right it has depth of clarity and chance and edges away but any fray what if Craig Hockenberry is right. [TS]
00:46:30 ◼ ► but you know what he wrote something recently saying hey there's a lot of indication that a West End is going to look [TS]
00:46:39 ◼ ► And his point was developers you should really start testing with some of the fonts we expect them to use and so on [TS]
00:46:47 ◼ ► or setting up for is a better way phrasing it a little bit more outreach to the public at large so I don't see we see [TS]
00:47:02 ◼ ► and nobody getting to play with it except developers or those willing to pay one hundred dollars. [TS]
00:47:11 ◼ ► or maybe even like self-appointed evangelists if you will and say hey you try it out [TS]
00:47:24 ◼ ► Well it's not so much that they want one of them to be evangelists for them I think it's more like to use examples from [TS]
00:47:29 ◼ ► O S ten instead of the I was seven things kind of like their attempts to handle auto saving getting rid of the save [TS]
00:47:34 ◼ ► command by sending out what's probably going to be a fairly significant U.I. Overall of the O. S. [TS]
00:47:40 ◼ ► To a wider group of people they hope to find out earlier rather than later that oh [TS]
00:47:48 ◼ ► and I want to have a command kit like that's type of thing you could have found out in a wider early beta [TS]
00:47:54 ◼ ► and that they only found out after the release and had to you know patch up in mountain lion. [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► Again it's serving apples not just hey let's see everything crashes or whatever but also if people flip out because [TS]
00:48:08 ◼ ► when all those people who are looking at rumor screenshot see something like that they may have trepidation about it [TS]
00:48:13 ◼ ► but Apple has no way to get feedback from them and really like well a lot and think well I'm going to try [TS]
00:48:19 ◼ ► but if all those people who are so enthusiastic going to reading a rumor site have the actual peer really so they go I [TS]
00:48:25 ◼ ► and said oh I can't even I can't tell what's what like you know for example you know these buttons with borders I can [TS]
00:48:30 ◼ ► tell other buttons that isn't like Tex or you know that the eye was equivalent to like if there's some big U.I. [TS]
00:48:35 ◼ ► Change that they're there they're not so sure about it they put it out to a wider audience they will get a look [TS]
00:48:40 ◼ ► informed feedback instead of like I saw screenshots Alex like it's going to be terrible [TS]
00:48:44 ◼ ► and be presumably through the mechanisms that they're going to distribute there'll be official channels to riches [TS]
00:48:49 ◼ ► and that if you'd like not just complaining on Twitter or posting and web forums or whatever [TS]
00:48:54 ◼ ► but actual feedback directly to Apple where people can write twenty paragraph missives about why they don't like the [TS]
00:49:02 ◼ ► Whenever they're going to say you know I mean yeah I make sense. Marco any thoughts on this. [TS]
00:49:10 ◼ ► I mean first of all it's mostly because I have zero interest in running a beta version of O S ten of my mac zero like [TS]
00:49:18 ◼ ► the the only time I ever install a beta was when reading list was first added to it [TS]
00:49:32 ◼ ► and so I signed over the developer program paid one hundred bucks and you know to see this reading listening [TS]
00:49:42 ◼ ► And even though I saw it on a laptop that I didn't care that much about because I'm like it's so important to me that [TS]
00:50:06 ◼ ► and so it's just not worth me running the betas for the most part ever I do an i Phone because the i Phone isn't [TS]
00:50:13 ◼ ► important to me if the i Phone you know if my i Phone reboot twice a day that's annoying [TS]
00:50:28 ◼ ► and to have my software running on my main phone someone's unlike Iowa seven comes out that changes a whole bunch about [TS]
00:50:36 ◼ ► It's good to start getting that ingrained in me earlier so I can develop for it well things like that [TS]
00:50:43 ◼ ► but because of those apply to me you know it's on the O S ten side I just don't care at all. [TS]
00:50:49 ◼ ► Now you know maybe the problem was not enough people were testing things on the left hand side to make it to make the [TS]
00:50:57 ◼ ► testing really worthwhile to Apple or to accomplish their goals because you know do you see them doing this for us. [TS]
00:51:03 ◼ ► I sure as hell don't because I like the I was baited like everyone who want to pay to get it you know they find some [TS]
00:51:09 ◼ ► developer to get them to add it to their account and add their device to their account and they get the beta [TS]
00:51:16 ◼ ► and buys a slot on someone's you know there's all these weird things people do to get Iowa State as these days [TS]
00:51:26 ◼ ► and they probably won't do it there is because there's all this demand around Iowa Spears all the demand probably isn't [TS]
00:51:34 ◼ ► and partly because you know Macs aren't as interesting as i Phones There are a few people have them in part that's just [TS]
00:51:40 ◼ ► because O.-S. Ten doesn't change that much. Maybe this next Beta will be so different. [TS]
00:52:03 ◼ ► Ten betas probably have the same the same priorities I do in that they probably don't want to run them on their main [TS]
00:52:11 ◼ ► work machines so they probably are like you know developers who make mac apps who want to make sure their mac apps work [TS]
00:52:18 ◼ ► so they probably run a minute V.M. or On some other hardware that that's not their primary stuff. [TS]
00:52:25 ◼ ► So if that's what most of the testers are doing it's an apple best interest to try to broaden that Hester base [TS]
00:52:31 ◼ ► but again I don't I don't see this is that big of a deal I don't see how many people who are not developers and [TS]
00:52:37 ◼ ► or who are willing to pay for the deliver account before I will see how many people are going to really get who are [TS]
00:52:43 ◼ ► going to be dying to install what's probably going to be a boring beta of a board no as an unborn product because [TS]
00:52:51 ◼ ► Mail thing like that's one aspect of you know even if you do install the betas like I have to do of course for primary [TS]
00:52:59 ◼ ► view if you that's something that you do whether you're a developer or the writing [TS]
00:53:03 ◼ ► or view whatever you're doing with the betas if you're if you're one of the people who has an account like for a reason [TS]
00:53:10 ◼ ► now because you're part of the press or because you're a developer you almost never use it against your real data. [TS]
00:53:20 ◼ ► and with good reason because if you had done that you would learn eventually that some early beta version of an O. [TS]
00:53:26 ◼ ► and I said you always have usually multiple test accounts multiple test i Cloud accounts multiple game sender accounts [TS]
00:53:32 ◼ ► multiple everything like you know the army mail accounts dummy contacts like you don't put your real data. [TS]
00:53:39 ◼ ► And so are you going to notice the email bug all you're doing is just like you're not actually sending [TS]
00:53:45 ◼ ► and receiving e-mail you're not actually keeping track of what you're marking read and what you haven't [TS]
00:53:48 ◼ ► and so you wouldn't notice these bugs because you're like yeah yeah like why would you even go to the Mail app unless [TS]
00:53:53 ◼ ► you just want to see what the new features are whatever if you don't use if you're real human I really like her didn't [TS]
00:54:02 ◼ ► and I think this actually will go to a different pool of people who want to use it [TS]
00:54:09 ◼ ► and I would say at this point if you find this program exciting you want to use these betas. [TS]
00:54:14 ◼ ► Keep in mind that like Marco said he doesn't use it I think on his main machine I never install beta versions of a [TS]
00:54:25 ◼ ► when it's like oh this is the golden master like oh have you installed the older No I wait until I can get it from the [TS]
00:54:32 ◼ ► and didn't they have a thing that this most recent release for like the build number change the last minute [TS]
00:54:39 ◼ ► or maybe see on my real computer I always get it used on you know I would always get it from the actual CD that would [TS]
00:54:48 ◼ ► or These days the actual one from the mac app store I won't even usually install the datto release. [TS]
00:54:54 ◼ ► Well you know it Cajun Lee I'll be wary about that been in the past he releases them pretty good. [TS]
00:54:59 ◼ ► So if you're thinking of doing this Apple has all these crazy warnings everything have a back up [TS]
00:55:03 ◼ ► or whatever like by all means if you're enthusiastic you know what you're getting into [TS]
00:55:07 ◼ ► but realize like it could erase your entire hard drive like you could scramble your contacts [TS]
00:55:14 ◼ ► and I can wear those back ups like how are you going to restore that i Cloud is very opaque [TS]
00:55:17 ◼ ► and it's difficult to wrangle it back into shape so be aware of what you're getting into I imagine that since this is [TS]
00:55:34 ◼ ► That's part of the experience I did the same thing back in the day with like you know it was a betas [TS]
00:55:39 ◼ ► and stuff where they were just terrible and data destroying and it's that that's I guess it's over. [TS]
00:55:46 ◼ ► I'm trying not to generalize and say I was going to like a bunch of enthusiastic teenagers destroying their parents [TS]
00:55:52 ◼ ► but like I was that teenager you know why why not why why shouldn't it be like I think that's kind of a rite of passage [TS]
00:56:00 ◼ ► Because we want to say that I recommend nobody joined this program but I think that people will and I think [TS]
00:56:05 ◼ ► and I think that the people who do join the program will be providing a different kind of testing than the existing [TS]
00:56:12 ◼ ► We're also sponsor this week this is sponsoring this week as a print on cardstock. [TS]
00:56:18 ◼ ► Thanks Marilyn because of a printer loading error. So I have my state sponsor read this week. P.P. [TS]
00:56:29 ◼ ► Hey are either the both of us A It's first time for everything kids new relic is an all in one web application [TS]
00:56:39 ◼ ► performance management tool A P M lets you see performance from the end user experience down to your servers [TS]
00:56:49 ◼ ► Our friends at new relic asked us to take a minute and say a big Thank You to all you didn't [TS]
00:56:57 ◼ ► They're sending a shout out to the developers the software geeks the code jockeys to those brief you who see things [TS]
00:57:07 ◼ ► Here's to working nights to wearing oversized concentration Hansing headphones upon your furrowed brow as new relics [TS]
00:57:18 ◼ ► Software powers or apps runs our databases manages our accounts and runs an e-commerce site and email programs. [TS]
00:57:26 ◼ ► New really helps improve your software performance so your users have a better experience [TS]
00:57:33 ◼ ► How's that for a win win new relic monitors every move your application makes across the entire stack [TS]
00:57:39 ◼ ► and show you what's happening right now. You can zero in on problems quickly with transaction tracing S.Q.L. [TS]
00:57:48 ◼ ► I'm going to go at that now I think application topography mapping and deployment history makers [TS]
00:57:53 ◼ ► and comparisons to I don't even have to things are but they sound awesome. If I was actually up to date with the web. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► Development I would probably know these things are but I don't but this sounds really awesome they even support P.H.P. [TS]
00:58:08 ◼ ► and even know so if you're one of those crazy cutting edge no developers like Casey you can actually use new relic [TS]
00:58:15 ◼ ► right now to monitor your application performance or go to new relics dot com slash A.T.P. For a thirty day free trial. [TS]
00:58:26 ◼ ► and you'll be able to quickly see inside your avatar finding hot spots fixing issues and optimizing performance. [TS]
00:58:41 ◼ ► We learned today about some new thunderbolt information about third generation Thunderbolt [TS]
00:58:46 ◼ ► and I'm not really that excited about it mostly because I don't plan on getting a new computer any time soon [TS]
00:58:57 ◼ ► Well there's not a whole lot known yet so there's not really much of discuss I just save it for you know three years [TS]
00:59:06 ◼ ► But basically intel there are some leaked until roadmap document that showed details in the next thunderbolt version [TS]
00:59:18 ◼ ► and basically able to cling on MacRumors basically Dell in the bandwidth of two forty gig gigabits per second. [TS]
00:59:26 ◼ ► And they're going to actually change the connector which is probably going to be interesting to me they're going to get [TS]
00:59:32 ◼ ► a smaller connector that also apparently will be able to charge of two hundred watts. Yes that's ridiculous. [TS]
00:59:40 ◼ ► Underscore Kyle Cronin in the chat room just asked a really good question which direction does the power go here. [TS]
00:59:49 ◼ ► I thought us that on Twitter they were saying you could almost power displayed and you tweet that today. [TS]
00:59:53 ◼ ► Yeah that's interesting though that yeah I didn't think about that direction. All this says is it enables. [TS]
01:00:00 ◼ ► System charging up to one hundred eighty C. Did it already. Speaking of A.T.C. The other A.D.C. [TS]
01:00:08 ◼ ► and over display there was one one cabling it sort of this is this is the other way. [TS]
01:00:12 ◼ ► This is the other way that this is saying that your thunder like a thunderbolt display could could charge your laptop [TS]
01:00:18 ◼ ► right without the little dangly mags a thing like RAM somebody pointed out on Twitter also that this is the proposed [TS]
01:00:28 ◼ ► and this is apparently still three generations away here something it's pretty far off. [TS]
01:00:36 ◼ ► or two at least I think it might be sooner than we think because like it's maybe not across the line [TS]
01:00:43 ◼ ► but soon enough that I think the changing connector is a little bit upsetting because it's like I know we did one apple [TS]
01:00:49 ◼ ► to wait any longer to do what it's you know to really want to be a lawyer for the night pro [TS]
01:00:56 ◼ ► and a half to three year gap like you're going to change a thunderbolt connector ready we just got thunderbolt ports on [TS]
01:01:01 ◼ ► our macro I can and they are going to change and the difference is one point five millimeters and height. [TS]
01:01:07 ◼ ► And I mentioned on Twitter that I have been staring at the edges of various Retina MacBook Pros in meetings that work [TS]
01:01:14 ◼ ► with us to do in boring meetings thinking about thinking about which one of those connectors is going to get thinner [TS]
01:01:19 ◼ ► next because if you look at the side what we have is kind of a menagerie of MacBook Pros around the office depending on [TS]
01:01:29 ◼ ► and you could see like that you can report disappears up the mag's squish look like the U.S.B. [TS]
01:01:34 ◼ ► Is practically edge to edge and you can see them squeezing and squeezing in really this headroom there [TS]
01:01:39 ◼ ► but the way Apple designs their laptops there's a curved section that sort of gives you a place for you to hook your [TS]
01:01:44 ◼ ► fingers underneath and then there is a flat section is perpendicular to the table and that's where the ports go [TS]
01:01:54 ◼ ► or squeeze pretty tightly in the flat section now it's like if you want to make a laptop then you could start giving up [TS]
01:02:02 ◼ ► but you don't want to make something that's like as thin as just a flat section a flat on a table he will be able to [TS]
01:02:06 ◼ ► pick it up either trying to get your fingernails underneath it to try to pull it up off the table so things have to get [TS]
01:02:25 ◼ ► and mag save I think is due to be revised as well because to everyone seems to hate [TS]
01:02:34 ◼ ► and people had mag safe too because it's not as secure as the old one because they made it you know they made skinnier [TS]
01:02:41 ◼ ► and maybe it's time for a new magnetic power connector that I mean I don't think they want to insert dissolve [TS]
01:02:47 ◼ ► when it's supposed to come off easily but I think they could use a desire is in as well the Thunderbolt. [TS]
01:02:52 ◼ ► It seems kind of early for them to be making the thing than are and I'm a little bit worried about that. [TS]
01:02:56 ◼ ► I hope this I hope this does come sooner rather than later I hope actually twenty fifteen that we would see this [TS]
01:03:02 ◼ ► or twenty fifteen if only for the redneck angle you know because now finally if I only in theory would have been with [TS]
01:03:09 ◼ ► to do my desired quad twenty seven inch retina resolution display it still depend on like a new display port specs [TS]
01:03:17 ◼ ► but this was a bunch of acronyms that Syria provides us like I don't know what it might to encompass is I don't even [TS]
01:03:23 ◼ ► know it. TB two years so maybe one of those maybe one of those things would could could power. [TS]
01:03:29 ◼ ► I'm under the resolution that I want but change the connector is a dimension of the an adapter [TS]
01:03:36 ◼ ► It's like two years at the thunderbolt appears already to do that because I guess because they want to do all over [TS]
01:03:46 ◼ ► and so far it's not going to be a massive problem to have all these people buy a little you know thirty dollars doctors [TS]
01:03:53 ◼ ► are probably even less than that I mean it's you know the whole problem with the devil is that no one's using it. [TS]
01:04:00 ◼ ► It is an advantage because it's like well if I hadn't a thing to plug in I wouldn't in the death ever since I have [TS]
01:04:04 ◼ ► nothing to plug in any Well I mean I guess even Apple's monitor is even like you know for the people like you doing [TS]
01:04:08 ◼ ► what I do with the MacBook Air The Thunderbolt display I bet a lot of people do that set up where you have thunderbolt [TS]
01:04:19 ◼ ► The stupid doc they have are busy laptops the snap a thing and eight hundred connectors connect [TS]
01:04:23 ◼ ► but you do it all to Thunderbolts right well now you need like the portable display first that came with the mag they [TS]
01:04:29 ◼ ► wanted to adapter like used to get that with a display so you could you know attach the charging thingy to the laptops [TS]
01:04:41 ◼ ► Ever since a thunderbolt display came out I have lusted after it and I'm way too cheap to buy one [TS]
01:04:50 ◼ ► or six cables to plug in every time I plug in my computer when I get home and only have two is just sounds awesome [TS]
01:05:06 ◼ ► It genuinely genuinely does the problem is that one connector is probably going to crappy because I can tell you how we [TS]
01:05:13 ◼ ► but I've done it enough that every time I do it like it does not feel like a robusto you can connect [TS]
01:05:19 ◼ ► and it'll be fine every time I'm do it I'm like I'm so conscious of like the potential number of connecting [TS]
01:05:24 ◼ ► disconnected cable has in it because of that little chip in that thing it's like a long step things take me out of the [TS]
01:05:30 ◼ ► It's not as you know you feel like I can plug unplug the lighting port in my i Phone forever [TS]
01:05:35 ◼ ► and I feel fine about it until like maybe the cable will frayed or whatever I'll get a new one. [TS]
01:05:39 ◼ ► The Thunderbolt thing going to the side of especially a MacBook Air feels pretty perilous [TS]
01:05:44 ◼ ► and I have little faith that the one point five millimeter thinner version will feel any less perilous unless they [TS]
01:05:55 ◼ ► but I read somewhere that you know maybe one of the reasons they were read one of the connectors that the new one. [TS]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Really isn't that great that it does fall out easily or become slightly pulled easily [TS]
01:06:05 ◼ ► and you know there's really like there's no part of its design it's really high friction [TS]
01:06:11 ◼ ► or anything like that so it's I've never felt that honorable things were secure I mean I mostly use use it like for the [TS]
01:06:35 ◼ ► That's basically it which is probably what I said last time but now I'm WAY closer this time. [TS]
01:06:39 ◼ ► Today I was writing the directory to give you some idea you know making the ad pod casting work more than just search. [TS]
01:06:52 ◼ ► You know all that all they can stuff is done. Yeah getting there that's about it. Isn't that interesting right now. [TS]
01:07:01 ◼ ► That's fair I just don't think we talked about in a while. Let's go to an easy our i Pad sales leveling leveling off. [TS]
01:07:08 ◼ ► There's been a little bit of chatter about this lately. Yeah. This I wanted to talk about. [TS]
01:07:13 ◼ ► So there's there was this post by oh boy. Go ahead John. Save mark or please Joey get say thank you so much all right. [TS]
01:07:29 ◼ ► Basically saying or suggesting that i Pad sales have or about to be revealed to have leveled off [TS]
01:07:40 ◼ ► and you know so the theory here is that you know maybe i Pad an overall tablet sales are not doing as they're growing [TS]
01:07:47 ◼ ► as well as as everyone expected and you know maybe that maybe tablets have been overestimated [TS]
01:08:00 ◼ ► So I want to talk about this because I personally have really had had trouble like making my i Pad useful to me [TS]
01:08:07 ◼ ► and I've heard so many people who that's not the case for so many people are finding incredibly interesting creative [TS]
01:08:14 ◼ ► ways to use their i Pad to get other worked on or just bring our Pavin they go on trips and not bring a laptop [TS]
01:08:24 ◼ ► and part of that just because the work I do you know being a lot of programming and stuff like that [TS]
01:08:37 ◼ ► and easier to do it there you know for me the limitations of I.O.'s work on a phone you know that limitation of how how [TS]
01:08:46 ◼ ► apps are so incredibly isolated from each other and so you know multitasking is very limited. [TS]
01:08:59 ◼ ► and it has its own little silo of data you know all that stuff makes it very hard for me to work the way I want to work [TS]
01:09:07 ◼ ► and so I have not found I've had to be very useful and in fact I hardly ever use one. [TS]
01:09:11 ◼ ► I have I have stopped buying every version of it even for developer testing purposes. [TS]
01:09:19 ◼ ► and my wife has the i Pad Air I really can't see as buying the next ones that come out either because these are going [TS]
01:09:25 ◼ ► to be fine for a while. Yeah I'll remind you it sounds like you need an i Pad Pro Fargo right. [TS]
01:09:31 ◼ ► Well so and so I wonder like you know how how many people just the case for leaks or for me what I've found [TS]
01:09:37 ◼ ► and this is this is why I think the i Phone one it might make this more interesting. [TS]
01:09:42 ◼ ► I found that you know there's the things that a phone does well and the i Pad does does most of the things well [TS]
01:09:49 ◼ ► but the things that if the phone does poorly the i Pad doesn't do a lot of them much better. [TS]
01:10:03 ◼ ► or your i Pad you might have it with you in my case I almost never have it with me that doesn't fit in clothing [TS]
01:10:11 ◼ ► and I don't carry bags big enough for most of those places I go so you know the phone is always with you [TS]
01:10:20 ◼ ► I Pads Yes you can get them within a connections but it's not the common case I don't think. [TS]
01:10:26 ◼ ► And even if you have a connection like I feel kind of bad paying twenty bucks a month for the data connection that I [TS]
01:10:32 ◼ ► hardly ever use but my have had becomes even less useful if I don't have that but it's on [TS]
01:10:37 ◼ ► and happy about that most people just don't get data connections or data plans for their i Pads [TS]
01:10:42 ◼ ► and so you know that major difference between Always being with you and always have [TS]
01:10:47 ◼ ► and always having a data connection that actually makes the i Pad even less useful for me then than it normally is [TS]
01:10:55 ◼ ► and so I have to wonder like you know I've said before I don't think it's wise to ever bet against a smartphone. [TS]
01:11:03 ◼ ► I think the smartphone is an amazing ideal and it's like the intersection of the best of so many things [TS]
01:11:13 ◼ ► and there's so much potential in the smartphone for me if it's a smartphone had a little bigger screen which probably [TS]
01:11:20 ◼ ► about two in the in the non Apple world. That's old news and they've had big screens for years. [TS]
01:11:38 ◼ ► but if it ever got stolen today I'm pretty sure I would not replace it. And so but you know it might like my phone. [TS]
01:11:49 ◼ ► and I'm wondering you know whether whether the i Pad is really necessary long term as a product category [TS]
01:11:56 ◼ ► and whether it's succeeding long term in the product category or whether it will become. [TS]
01:12:00 ◼ ► No more of a more of a new narrow niche product as most people realize that a phone [TS]
01:12:05 ◼ ► and maybe a computer is good enough. So I would like to argue with everything you just said. Cool. [TS]
01:12:20 ◼ ► and now I have what I like to call the retina Pad Mini which Dr Steven Hackett knots which makes you want to call it [TS]
01:12:31 ◼ ► For the first time I'd always had wife I only i Pads and this one I got with L.T.E. [TS]
01:12:41 ◼ ► Mobile started doing that crazy thing where you can buy a SIM for ten dollars one time [TS]
01:12:51 ◼ ► And the idea is or I presume the idea is that it's a gateway drug to get you to pay T. Mobile for data. [TS]
01:12:58 ◼ ► Well what I found is the combination of moving from big i Pad to i Pad Mini as paired with this team mobile plan that [TS]
01:13:09 ◼ ► really quite honestly gives me enough data for pretty much any usage I would want away from a wife a hot spot like a [TS]
01:13:20 ◼ ► The combination of having a healthy i Pad with just a little bit of data every single month [TS]
01:13:25 ◼ ► and having it be an i Pad Mini made me fall in love with this i Pad Mini so much more than I did my prior i Pads which [TS]
01:13:35 ◼ ► I kind of went in and out of love with. I would use them a lot then I would use them at all. But I'm not at all. [TS]
01:13:41 ◼ ► And I love my i Pad Mini and I wonder if I wonder if the by virtue of it having L.T.E. [TS]
01:13:52 ◼ ► and Either if I could tether against my i Phone which I can't because I'm still in the eight hundred to unlimited plan [TS]
01:14:00 ◼ ► A plan wherein I could share my data with my i Pad for very little extra per month [TS]
01:14:08 ◼ ► Mobile thing that I've done makes me absolutely adore my i Pad And generally speaking [TS]
01:14:22 ◼ ► and the only reason I had a computer with me was because I had to record the podcast while it while we were on the road [TS]
01:14:41 ◼ ► and I John what do you think about this I think the thing that's holding the i Pad back is two aspects one is that as I [TS]
01:14:49 ◼ ► said in past shows I was talking about the i Pad Pro If the i Pad wants to take over more of the functionality [TS]
01:14:56 ◼ ► That has to expand its ability to do the things that P.C.'s can do in some vague yet unspecified way possibly having a [TS]
01:15:07 ◼ ► Like you imagine better interact all his communication all the things we discussed right so that is like OK walking [TS]
01:15:13 ◼ ► into a that well the P.C. Market is not as big of the phone market for market's growing P.C. [TS]
01:15:21 ◼ ► So say the i Pad takes over some portion that that's still to get to the kind of growth that people are expecting from [TS]
01:15:29 ◼ ► but that's one that's one area where it probably has to move if it wants to get some growth in the other areas it's got [TS]
01:15:35 ◼ ► to come way way down in price because that's what it's competing against is psychologically if not in actuality it's [TS]
01:15:45 ◼ ► and they're not free like all they cost thousands of dollars a year for your cell phone plans an i Phone is incredibly [TS]
01:15:51 ◼ ► but psychologically speaking cell phones are practically free because most people in first world countries feel like [TS]
01:16:01 ◼ ► and it's like you know it's not for you because a lot of money the people who like what I have to have a phone. Right. [TS]
01:16:11 ◼ ► If you don't buy a tablet you will just you will spend zero because like you know would you say oh you know what I'm [TS]
01:16:23 ◼ ► but there are other competing answers like they consider a phone is like I have to pay for that that's a sunk cost [TS]
01:16:31 ◼ ► and like the thing is if they have some task they need to do that is just not convenient or possible to do [TS]
01:16:42 ◼ ► There are traditionally more expensive but tablets especially Apple tablets are still pretty darn expensive. [TS]
01:16:47 ◼ ► If Apple could like say say the i Pad Mini Retina i bet me with ninety nine dollars just some fantasy scenario there. [TS]
01:17:03 ◼ ► but I just think like the idea that every single home that has a smartphone would also have an i Pad just hanging [TS]
01:17:10 ◼ ► around just to be that thing like the equip the modern the future world equivalent of a magazine under skin to sit on a [TS]
01:17:16 ◼ ► couch and read a magazine we're not going to read a magazine you're going to look at web pages on your i Pad [TS]
01:17:20 ◼ ► or I'm just going to go up to my room and watch some Netflix or or stream something from my D.V.R. [TS]
01:17:25 ◼ ► or Whatever like the idea that just having a flat screen even if I never leave the house just as a convenient thing to [TS]
01:17:33 ◼ ► when it cost seven hundred dollars you're like do I need to do a few one of those usual things seven hundred dollars [TS]
01:17:38 ◼ ► worth no I don't even five hundred dollars I got you know and I think of so a lot more than if they go down in price [TS]
01:17:44 ◼ ► and you know I guess the three things the final thing is that many people have mentioned they're just a little bit too. [TS]
01:17:50 ◼ ► There's a little bit too good so far I know so many people who are using i Pad ones and see no reason to upgrade. [TS]
01:17:55 ◼ ► That is the pregnant and the company of the phone where there's many reasons upgrade because of the subsidies [TS]
01:18:02 ◼ ► Personally I don't feel like they should because that's why I spent five hundred dollars [TS]
01:18:04 ◼ ► and I've had I'm keeping it for years and the second thing is well you know I guess unless game stop working [TS]
01:18:11 ◼ ► or they don't care than on i OS seven like I guess they do kind of cycle down to the kids and let them use it [TS]
01:18:19 ◼ ► and I mean surprisingly durable for a five hundred dollar piece of glass you think of all the like destroyed by now. [TS]
01:18:27 ◼ ► and just they survive in a home environment those things survive for a long period of time [TS]
01:18:32 ◼ ► and so if there were ninety nine dollars you'd like every year to go get a new one of these flat things because what we [TS]
01:18:40 ◼ ► and read the you know read web pages better than reading it on my phone I want gramophones battery [TS]
01:18:44 ◼ ► and I used to watch a video this is a little bit bigger screen and if you can get the price way down [TS]
01:18:49 ◼ ► and if you get a little bit more capable that will make sure there's an i Pad in everybody's home [TS]
01:18:54 ◼ ► and that would also make sure that when people go on trips like maybe I don't need to buy a laptop [TS]
01:19:00 ◼ ► Market by just saying I can take this with me because I can do more or less everything I need to do [TS]
01:19:12 ◼ ► but still pretty annoying like that's where the i Pad programs in so there's not like Apple needs to like oh you need [TS]
01:19:17 ◼ ► to cite or I present a loss right now but I think just the natural if you look at the Apple T.V. [TS]
01:19:26 ◼ ► The i Pad It's going to take even longer because that screen is tough to really push down much farther [TS]
01:19:34 ◼ ► when Apple has a tablet things that are for that span the same range as i Pods do I think there is a legitimate reason [TS]
01:19:45 ◼ ► and if Apple can get its price point down it could be that device so I think that's where the growth potential is for [TS]
01:19:48 ◼ ► tablets. Yeah that makes sense. The thing that I think about is what is what is really holding the i Pad especially. [TS]
01:20:04 ◼ ► and you know we've talked in the past around this time last year about what's the low hanging fruit for I.O.'s [TS]
01:20:11 ◼ ► and I guess maybe low hanging fruit is a poor way of phrasing it but what's the thing that bothers everyone the most [TS]
01:20:19 ◼ ► and you know copy paste is the seminal example from years back that it infuriated everyone to not have copy paste. [TS]
01:20:32 ◼ ► I feel like we're getting to the point that we're really going to need to crap or get off the pot [TS]
01:20:36 ◼ ► or apples really you need to I mean is this the I don't want to get into a prediction episode [TS]
01:20:41 ◼ ► but is this the time is that enough to make I.O.'s a little bit more powerful era of communication itself is it's oh [TS]
01:20:53 ◼ ► or around the concept around that we think first of all we all assume that I was eight will improve this somehow [TS]
01:21:01 ◼ ► because there's a lot of you can see that there's a lot of the groundwork already laid in six [TS]
01:21:05 ◼ ► and seven for this you have things like remote view controllers there's a few activity system you can you can tell that [TS]
01:21:26 ◼ ► He says you know suppose I us does something very similar to the contract you're intense on minutes for an Android [TS]
01:21:37 ◼ ► but I think a big part of the problem is the document model of the file system model. [TS]
01:21:45 ◼ ► You know how how you where you store your data how you access your stored data how you know where things are are [TS]
01:21:52 ◼ ► divided and you know where things are not accessible from and I think that you know there's. [TS]
01:22:00 ◼ ► There's all the simplicity of these devices of not having to manage your files not have to figure out where things are [TS]
01:22:05 ◼ ► not not having to you know go to your parents' house and see everything on the desktop [TS]
01:22:09 ◼ ► and that they're part of his quote full because they're out of spaces for their icons you know you have one of those [TS]
01:22:21 ◼ ► and I think that more than anything is what limits. I went from being used in more productivity type roles. [TS]
01:22:28 ◼ ► Apple Apple still holding the line on that and I think most people agree with the sentiment. [TS]
01:22:44 ◼ ► and they just want to reproduce all the same problems like yeah that would solve it for geeks right. [TS]
01:22:48 ◼ ► But a modular sandbox I guess but for everybody else it's like well siloed per app is simple [TS]
01:22:55 ◼ ► but it has all these problems and we're all hoping for a solution that does not give up all the simplicity [TS]
01:23:01 ◼ ► and go all the way back to destroy access to the file system again if only for security concerns. [TS]
01:23:10 ◼ ► and even normal people seem to grasp Dropbox because Dropbox essentially took the file system problem [TS]
01:23:15 ◼ ► and narrowed it down to a single place kind of like the desktop which was the old place that everyone you mentioned [TS]
01:23:24 ◼ ► and then what people do is like well I have all my crap on my desktop and that's the one place I know how to find [TS]
01:23:29 ◼ ► and I make folders on my desktop for some projects and it's like it's like training wheels for the real file system [TS]
01:23:35 ◼ ► and it's like it's the same as the file system is just narrative that you drop out because of a desktop on start making [TS]
01:23:41 ◼ ► folders in a Dropbox like the person if I start making folders I'd start with lots of stuff [TS]
01:23:46 ◼ ► and like you just want to say just a little bit farther like the whole file system is your oyster. [TS]
01:23:50 ◼ ► It's not just the new folder one you can fold it anywhere under seventeen. So I I hope. [TS]
01:24:00 ◼ ► It Apple doesn't give up but at a certain point like it's kind of like that you know that they give up [TS]
01:24:06 ◼ ► Joke site from years ago is like at a certain point like Well Apple you've been thinking about this for years [TS]
01:24:11 ◼ ► and if you really can't think of something that's better at a certain point you need to just like say we failed in our [TS]
01:24:17 ◼ ► ability to give you something that's both simpler and equally powerful or close to as powerful [TS]
01:24:23 ◼ ► and I do not want them to do that I think that would be not only an admission of failure [TS]
01:24:27 ◼ ► but an actual failure so I really keep hoping that they come up with some scheme that has the security benefits of [TS]
01:24:36 ◼ ► but that lets applications easily work multiple applications work on the same document I mean that's all part of my [TS]
01:24:41 ◼ ► whole day cloudy i Pad provision is the idea of using multiple applications to make a sort of composite document [TS]
01:24:47 ◼ ► or a composite or work on a project that has some images and some text files and some this [TS]
01:24:54 ◼ ► when you're doing any sort of remotely complicated project without it being you know I just do everything in one app [TS]
01:25:01 ◼ ► Goes on a direction Xcode is like yes it's a whole bunch of different things you've got images you've got header files [TS]
01:25:12 ◼ ► but like it's all in Xcode I guess I guess some of the energetic ones that was the embedded image editor next code will [TS]
01:25:16 ◼ ► know they've really just given up you think it is part seven right to the i Pad Pro [TS]
01:25:22 ◼ ► and it's like hey you don't need to want to separate out all your stuff in one place. [TS]
01:25:26 ◼ ► Does it seem like the i Pad app library is stagnating because it seems that way to me [TS]
01:25:34 ◼ ► but because I'm not that into using my i Pad that could just be like you know because I used to be [TS]
01:25:39 ◼ ► but whatever like what do you mean by that like what kind of apps you talking about specifically. [TS]
01:25:44 ◼ ► It seems to me that you know again anecdotally So whatever this is worth I'm not seeing a lot of i Pad apps come out [TS]
01:26:08 ◼ ► or some of them actually have been abandoned some of them have have been updated made worse. [TS]
01:26:13 ◼ ► Like it seems like the i Pad was a priority for after filters for about two and a half years and now it's just not. [TS]
01:26:20 ◼ ► And I can point to lots of you know if if this is the case beyond just what I'm seeing. [TS]
01:26:35 ◼ ► but you know one of the biggest would be the App Store pricing model and the top list model [TS]
01:26:42 ◼ ► and how that encourages the race to the bottom in pricing and very low prices made up of very large volume. [TS]
01:26:59 ◼ ► and we know they don't sell nearly as well as i Phones do already. Maybe that's a big problem. [TS]
01:27:06 ◼ ► I mean it's certainly it seems to me like maybe like to me one of the reasons why I'm not using the i Pad is because [TS]
01:27:15 ◼ ► Has acted better on my phone like half of things I do on on a my US devices like the i Phone apps I have an i Phone are [TS]
01:27:27 ◼ ► or is this a broader thing I think the the sales numbers definitely aren't in focus the way more i Phones But I think [TS]
01:27:33 ◼ ► there's a bifurcation of applications in the like in the beginning it was like a labyrinth of you know make all the [TS]
01:27:37 ◼ ► and then eventually people learned which apps are better suited to its environment so to give an example these days of [TS]
01:27:43 ◼ ► a new game comes out I don't have fear that there's not going to be an i Pad version [TS]
01:27:47 ◼ ► and if there's anything like anything that has a do with like reading experience a magazine app a comic reader [TS]
01:27:53 ◼ ► or something for watching video there's no i'm there's no concern that it's not going to have an i Pad version [TS]
01:28:00 ◼ ► I think like a controlling other like the Tivo application I'm not concerned that's not going to anything is not sort [TS]
01:28:08 ◼ ► or stuff like that I don't expect to find them on the I beg of those who like clearly focused on the phone anything [TS]
01:28:12 ◼ ► that there's clearly something you want to use like a mobile type application that's going to be phone first [TS]
01:28:18 ◼ ► or phone only whereas any application that benefits from having a larger screen that's going to be i Pad only your i [TS]
01:28:27 ◼ ► and I think I have the same frustration it's like well I know most of the time I'm not I'm not reading Twitter on my i [TS]
01:28:34 ◼ ► but I would like to have a universal version of whatever my favorite for a client as a matter of fact I do because he's [TS]
01:28:38 ◼ ► terrific but those type of applications like glass board for example there's no i Pad version of that [TS]
01:28:47 ◼ ► But on the other hand if it's like a mobile on the go up but it's like when I'm on my i Pad I have to run that two X. [TS]
01:28:53 ◼ ► Thing I just feel bad so I just think it's kind of the application splitting and going to where they need to go [TS]
01:29:01 ◼ ► Number of sales to be profitable forget the i Pad because of the many i Pads out there [TS]
01:29:13 ◼ ► and then I answered it with a different question which is what have I cited about what I'm going to fight about on the [TS]
01:29:19 ◼ ► and I'm really excited that the one password I was seven update just came out that's universal waiting with bated [TS]
01:29:27 ◼ ► breath for tweet but update for i OS seven and fantastic of two came out and really pumped about that. That's about it. [TS]
01:29:39 ◼ ► but you see I'm saying like to your point there's not a lot that's been brand new that is happened on the i Pad [TS]
01:29:46 ◼ ► fantastic I was a good example though that often really really really excited about that's happened months if not [TS]
01:29:54 ◼ ► around a year now. Well the game's like if you're into playing games I mean there's a pretty pretty regular. [TS]
01:30:00 ◼ ► Cycle of exciting new games that are available for the i Pad they come out I mean it's not you know like if there are [TS]
01:30:07 ◼ ► TONS of the games to come out most of the graphics on the good games like the current ones like Monument Valley [TS]
01:30:21 ◼ ► but I think a lot of the a lot of the i Pad the thing it was like the thing you have around the house. [TS]
01:30:25 ◼ ► Yeah it's going to be a video app and threw it through are you going to consume stuff [TS]
01:30:28 ◼ ► or it's going to be a comic reader through it you're going to get spending continual stream of money on comics I mean [TS]
01:30:39 ◼ ► and it's an appliance to reach you funnel money so it's not like there's not money to be made there because if you have [TS]
01:30:46 ◼ ► or even just magazine subscriptions it's it's a continual faucet of money versus just like oh I can sell you one out [TS]
01:30:53 ◼ ► for for one lucky it's like you know you'll spend fifty one hundred dollars a month on comics through this one app that [TS]
01:30:59 ◼ ► we will continually updating develop but it's not exciting as I've been in amazing new apps coming out [TS]
01:31:04 ◼ ► but there is I think less of that on the phone with exception possibly of music streaming services that you pay a [TS]
01:31:09 ◼ ► subscription for the phone is less of a venue for I'm going to download this one app [TS]
01:31:17 ◼ ► or my entire life will continue to funnel money through this application because the way I get my video my comics [TS]
01:31:26 ◼ ► Yeah I think a lot of it also depends on you know for any whatever app you're you're talking about like how hard is it [TS]
01:31:31 ◼ ► how much work is it to maintain a separate i Pad interface or separate i Pad app and tirelessly [TS]
01:31:37 ◼ ► and for certain types of things like you know video type apps it's a lot less work than something like a word processor [TS]
01:31:44 ◼ ► would be like games it's it's you know some work in the interface layout and stuff [TS]
01:31:54 ◼ ► There's you know there's all these all these productivity apps that's it's a lot more work like. [TS]
01:32:00 ◼ ► Like you know I'm not even making overcast for i Pad when I launch and you know maybe I'll add it later [TS]
01:32:04 ◼ ► but I'm launching without any I've had enough. Even though I could I could just say in the in the people list. [TS]
01:32:09 ◼ ► Yeah we're going to pad sure and just let the interface scale itself up but it would look terrible. [TS]
01:32:15 ◼ ► I'd rather not do that and so I'm not doing that you know. I'd rather do it well or not at all. [TS]
01:32:22 ◼ ► So when I met she was not at all and maybe all dressed well later but I wonder how [TS]
01:32:28 ◼ ► and for how many developers how many developers are going to make that call and say you know what. [TS]
01:32:32 ◼ ► It's probably not worth it like almost every other pod cast out on the store that's popular [TS]
01:32:36 ◼ ► and all has it has a dedicated i Pad version because all of them are written like two to three years ago [TS]
01:32:41 ◼ ► when that was a thing you all did like every one of you had to have an i Pad version two [TS]
01:32:50 ◼ ► and a lot of apps are still fine i Pad things things are you know you had games probably fine you know as as you know [TS]
01:32:57 ◼ ► and I was game could be doing fine you know so they're probably fun reading apps things like comics ology reading after [TS]
01:33:08 ◼ ► but other kinds of things utilities you know things like that it's just like we mentioned word processors like things [TS]
01:33:19 ◼ ► or whatever like there's no there's no i Phone version of the office up so there are not even look no I don't think so. [TS]
01:33:28 ◼ ► but really who want to try to read comics on their phone screen like there are certain applications where the big [TS]
01:33:33 ◼ ► but it's like I'm not going to bother Macon like even for games depending on what your interest is sometimes the games [TS]
01:33:40 ◼ ► I mean obviously games are highly motivated to get on the platform that has you know more users [TS]
01:33:48 ◼ ► and stuff like that it doesn't make sense to make a phone version because you have a certain U.I. In mind that U.I. [TS]
01:33:54 ◼ ► Only works at minimum on the i Pad Mini like it's just not feasible. Why even bother on the phone. [TS]
01:34:00 ◼ ► And I think the reverse is also true for things like like yours through the park that maybe you'll find out you're [TS]
01:34:06 ◼ ► but it's like you are like why even bother who's carrying around their i Pad to listen to podcasts while they walk [TS]
01:34:10 ◼ ► their dogs right that's not that's not a scenario you have in mind. Oh believe me I'm going to hear from all of them. [TS]
01:34:16 ◼ ► It could be that like there is an actual usage scenario where having an i Pad version is useful [TS]
01:34:22 ◼ ► and men might not just be those people made it back when it was the thing to do. You'll find out I guess with feedback. [TS]
01:34:26 ◼ ► But all I can think of one what if I'm at home and I want to broadcast the airplane or something like that [TS]
01:34:37 ◼ ► and I want to beam to something else over here play I would reach for my i Pad before I reach for my phone. [TS]
01:34:43 ◼ ► No I mean you could just run the i Phone version two acts like a dual class board you know like not like you're being [TS]
01:34:47 ◼ ► prevented from a like what is it about PA to get application that you would want a you know a specific i Pad specific [TS]
01:34:54 ◼ ► version like for POD guess that you're not spending your time manipulating the you why are you spending it on to the [TS]
01:35:02 ◼ ► but I going to want something that looks good on the i Pad So to Marco's point yes I can absolutely get away with a two [TS]
01:35:09 ◼ ► Version of the I of the i Phone version of overcast hypothetically but I wouldn't want to it [TS]
01:35:15 ◼ ► and that may make me come back to my i Phone which granted this is the huge first world problem [TS]
01:35:21 ◼ ► but nevertheless I can absolutely tell you that if I could listen to podcasts on my i Pad I would in a lot of cases you [TS]
01:35:29 ◼ ► know I mentioned Twitter apps if or and like I was kind of speaking to the general case right. [TS]
01:35:34 ◼ ► Twitter apps and you're much more popular when you're on the go and you're buying your phones right [TS]
01:35:46 ◼ ► and I would much rather browse a web page you know not get the crazy i Phone mobile version if they have some crappy i [TS]
01:35:51 ◼ ► Phone no version and be just at the much bigger screen too to read things you know [TS]
01:36:00 ◼ ► At browsing like it's not the tweets themselves that our union i Pad screen to see a tweet tweet look fine and i Pod [TS]
01:36:07 ◼ ► when I'm using Twitter for following links that people put in is kind of you know my my undermanned replacement for [TS]
01:36:13 ◼ ► and Yeah I want to read those links on the big screen or want to watch those videos [TS]
01:36:19 ◼ ► I'm much happier to watch that Godzilla trailer on my i Pad than to try to you know look at the tiny thing on my i Pod [TS]
01:36:26 ◼ ► Touch and have to you know turn off the rotation lock so I could rotate it so the images and microscopic [TS]
01:36:31 ◼ ► and you know how much does this change if there's a five inch phone it will say yeah I guess I mean none of us have use [TS]
01:36:38 ◼ ► the five inch shown right so we don't know like does it make a difference does it doesn't make a significant difference [TS]
01:36:43 ◼ ► there all the sudden I feel comfortable watching the Godzilla trailer do I still wish I had it I'm out to have like a [TS]
01:36:48 ◼ ► wall find out if people are using Android phones now already know the answer for themselves [TS]
01:36:52 ◼ ► but for the people in the Apple camp you know with prism we get these phones will find out how much it really makes a [TS]
01:36:59 ◼ ► See I think it'll make a big difference for non power users for I don't want to call them normal people [TS]
01:37:06 ◼ ► but non geeks and I can't cite a specific example but I know a lot of like friends [TS]
01:37:12 ◼ ► and family who either have been saying oh man I really hope there's a bigger i Phone or i left i O. [TS]
01:37:19 ◼ ► West speaker I left the i Phone because it never got bigger and I wanted something bigger. [TS]
01:37:26 ◼ ► Personally I think look ridiculous and I would not want to try to stuff in a pant pocket but that's just me. [TS]
01:37:33 ◼ ► And typically everything I poop who I end up coming around and liking like Apple like Macs like i Phones like B.M.W. [TS]
01:37:43 ◼ ► and whatever forty minutes I think Marco you're right that for a lot of people having a much bigger phone will prevent [TS]
01:37:53 ◼ ► what will prevent the need for an i Pad Although with that said I wonder I think John was right. [TS]
01:38:02 ◼ ► and not hitting the mobile version of websites is really really refreshing because in my experience a lot of times if [TS]
01:38:16 ◼ ► or the i Pad will to see the full bore desktop version and I'm curious to see if a five inch [TS]
01:38:28 ◼ ► What will happen with responsive sites will they just stretch the current four was a four point three inch version of [TS]
01:38:37 ◼ ► Will that be a different breakpoint and silly as that sounds I think I would make a big difference to me. [TS]
01:38:43 ◼ ► I think everything is coming up i Pad progun because this whole the larger phone what it does is it pushes it pushes [TS]
01:38:51 ◼ ► Like now the difference in size between the mini and whatever Phone Apple comes out but that gap is narrowed. [TS]
01:38:56 ◼ ► What is it that you're good at i Pad like well I've got a bigger screen like well how much bigger like again the people [TS]
01:39:04 ◼ ► but maybe it encroaches starts to encroach on something that people thought they had many foreign like well I can [TS]
01:39:13 ◼ ► and then in between area that you know there are those are going by the find a home between the phone [TS]
01:39:18 ◼ ► and the laptop maybe I think they need to move upscale and to continue to encroach on P.C. [TS]
01:39:23 ◼ ► Territory and to take things away from there and to go with bigger screens or you know maybe the Mini get scaled up [TS]
01:39:33 ◼ ► and get even bigger like that I think that's inevitable with phones getting larger I may get a different to how large [TS]
01:39:42 ◼ ► but some of these phones that I see it's like is that a phone or is that an i Pad Mini it really hits a really close [TS]
01:39:48 ◼ ► and at that point what place is there for an i Pad Mini your life all it is is a slightly larger phone that doesn't [TS]
01:39:54 ◼ ► and so then if you're going to get something at all it's going to be like What is this what is a tablet uniquely good. [TS]
01:40:00 ◼ ► We good at reading magazines I don't want to read a magazine on my phone with a still too small to neatly go to reading [TS]
01:40:04 ◼ ► comics in really good having video because I don't want to watch a video on this little tiny thing like [TS]
01:40:08 ◼ ► and you know it's an equally good it being a multifunction word processor e-mail handling out blah blah blah with an [TS]
01:40:17 ◼ ► and like whatever like I feel like there's a potential for it to be pushed up market kind of in terms of capability [TS]
01:40:28 ◼ ► and everything you know my position which I think you agree with because I think you said this is that it's just going [TS]
01:40:39 ◼ ► But you know it's it's no longer going to be assumed that everyone who has the means to buy an i Pad should buy one. [TS]
01:40:47 ◼ ► You know that's that's kind of been the assumption like if you're in that if you're into this kind of stuff at all [TS]
01:40:52 ◼ ► and you have enough money to afford an i Pad You should buy an i Pad I think it'll be like I said I think it'll be more [TS]
01:40:57 ◼ ► assumed as we go on because it'll just as the price comes down every house will if you have a smart phone always assume [TS]
01:41:02 ◼ ► you also have a tablet to do the things you do on top of the big tablet not a little one. [TS]
01:41:07 ◼ ► Yeah and I do think that your you know your positioning it as like the thing you have in your home [TS]
01:41:14 ◼ ► and just keep around the house that I think it has a better future for then then being traveling particularly devices [TS]
01:41:29 ◼ ► and typically if I'm on the road I just want to browse Twitter like John was saying catch up on R.S.S. [TS]
01:41:35 ◼ ► Do you know the things that people always say are constant consumption and that's why I need one I'm on the road [TS]
01:41:40 ◼ ► and I prefer to do that on an i Pad And so I think it would be great I would continue to have an i Pad for travel if [TS]
01:41:50 ◼ ► People do want to leave their laptops at home like there still is that people want to whether they are ready to [TS]
01:41:54 ◼ ► or not I don't know but like I know I like going places with just my i Pad and in many cases I can pay. [TS]
01:42:02 ◼ ► It's just a question of does the i Pad get filled I did it live up to the way you want to use it [TS]
01:42:10 ◼ ► and if you start the push up market a little bit people still want to bring their full fledged laptop especially if [TS]
01:42:17 ◼ ► but they want to have you know a powerful tablet with them so I think that the distinction of like you know this idea [TS]
01:42:27 ◼ ► There's two sides of this one is that if it's their work laptop and you know it's not like there are self-employed or [TS]
01:42:35 ◼ ► but they hate themselves like a lot of people don't want to bring their work with them because they don't like their [TS]
01:42:40 ◼ ► and so the work laptop has this this emotional baggage of being your work that you know you're on vacation you know [TS]
01:42:51 ◼ ► and you know you never get over that eventually you have a work tablet if this goes the way that everyone thinks it [TS]
01:42:58 ◼ ► So whatever that that I think we can safely disregard it as a thing because you know eventually that will emerge [TS]
01:43:04 ◼ ► but the other side of it is people people who say I don't want to bring this whole effort with me laptops in the last [TS]
01:43:11 ◼ ► couple years have gotten so much thinner and lighter and smaller and battery life is going through the roof. [TS]
01:43:17 ◼ ► Their laptops are getting so awesome that a lot of people who say that they you know they have like a two [TS]
01:43:24 ◼ ► Well it turns out modern laptops are a lot better than that you know the last few years have been amazing [TS]
01:43:29 ◼ ► and laptops and if it half of the rumors are true about what Apple's lineup is going to have in the laptops [TS]
01:43:35 ◼ ► It's going to be even better like they're talking about this supposed twelve inch retina air that might not even have [TS]
01:43:50 ◼ ► and you know there's a reason why laptops have taken over the world as like the computer of choice for almost everybody [TS]
01:44:01 ◼ ► and more often they keep getting smaller thinner lighter better battery life better displays everything about and [TS]
01:44:12 ◼ ► and everything it's like the reason people feel like I don't want to be my laptop isn't just because my working it [TS]
01:44:17 ◼ ► isn't just because it's heavier because I have an old laptop it's also because the experience of using an i Pad because [TS]
01:44:22 ◼ ► it runs I.O.'s and it's you know so simplified is more relaxing for you know vacation time atmosphere [TS]
01:44:30 ◼ ► and that's what Apple's trying to do they're trying to simplify Makower ten the trying to shave off the edges that you [TS]
01:44:38 ◼ ► but it's still debatable which one will get to the critical point first especially with pricing because of the tablet [TS]
01:44:44 ◼ ► can be ninety nine bucks an hour both best MacBook Air is still you know five ninety nine in some distant future. [TS]
01:44:51 ◼ ► The tablets are going to win just based on price. So used to be definitely a size thing. [TS]
01:44:57 ◼ ► I don't be lugging this thing with me as the size issue becomes less than you get on OK now it's down to price now it's [TS]
01:45:08 ◼ ► Has a fighting chance if you know the look at my order because I was trying to do with Windows eight an Apple trying to [TS]
01:45:13 ◼ ► simplify it so us on the price front I don't know maybe that's the closer I was going to say I will give the edge to [TS]
01:45:20 ◼ ► the tablet another to think about especially if they go to an ARM based air that might be a reasonably fair fight to [TS]
01:45:25 ◼ ► get in the end what's the difference between an ARM based MacBook Air and a Microsoft Surface [TS]
01:45:31 ◼ ► and i Pad with a keyboard in terms of pricing like I could be close to the too close to call this race I mean the funny [TS]
01:45:37 ◼ ► thing is if you think about you know what people want out of a quote i Pad Pro You know most people who try to get [TS]
01:45:45 ◼ ► or at some point have tried keyboards for their i Pads so that you think about OK what do you do with keyboard if [TS]
01:45:51 ◼ ► and i Pad you realize how much the pointing device situation sucks because if they keep using the keyboard on the [TS]
01:45:57 ◼ ► bottom and reaching a protective screen to you know move things around. And that sucks you know. [TS]
01:46:02 ◼ ► I seems like what people want out of an i Pad Pro is to make it more like a laptop [TS]
01:46:06 ◼ ► and what if this twelve inch thing is pretty much the i Pad air's hardware with a keyboard running a ported version of [TS]
01:46:14 ◼ ► a stat that would solve multitasking it would solve docket management it would solve all you know it would solve all of [TS]
01:46:21 ◼ ► but it wouldn't solve solve like with people like people don't like oh it's ten compared to Iowa it's like more [TS]
01:46:30 ◼ ► but you know like it's the appeal of tablets is a broad ranging interest not just the physical parts of it it's also [TS]
01:46:38 ◼ ► the software part same software parts of are complaining again that like the limitations like that's the line Apple is [TS]
01:46:43 ◼ ► trying to walk how do I make the i Pad more capable of making a crappier How do I make the mac less annoying to use [TS]
01:46:52 ◼ ► Yeah I feel like I'm back to what John is then saying which is part of the reason I did so laptop is because it's old [TS]
01:47:04 ◼ ► when I'm traveling which is basically just catch up on Twitter and R.S.S. and Email and so on. [TS]
01:47:09 ◼ ► I'll just bring the i Pad And maybe if I'm feeling really exotic I'll bring my apple Bluetooth keyboard [TS]
01:47:15 ◼ ► and throw it in a suitcase and use it in situations where I'm sitting down at the desk in the hotel or whatever [TS]
01:47:23 ◼ ► but I'd much prefer that over a small mac because I find using I was more enjoyable in that situation [TS]
01:47:34 ◼ ► and I will say time itself as we also forgot the the input method like Marco mention the terrible keyboard support [TS]
01:47:40 ◼ ► and I was it really is Graham special like cursor control and really doing to control a touch is also Graham [TS]
01:47:50 ◼ ► and move stuff around so you're using I hear you're using Apple or Google Maps to do now when you're on your i Pad [TS]
01:47:56 ◼ ► and you want to move the thing around like this is direct maybe elation is part of the real. [TS]
01:48:00 ◼ ► Sation you're not swiping on a track pad your just can touch the screen and again Apple can do something you can [TS]
01:48:05 ◼ ► but you can make some kind of convertible you know book air the keyboard folder on the back on it [TS]
01:48:18 ◼ ► and the relaxation factor of the i Pad is it's about the whole product about the interaction it's about the size about [TS]
01:48:26 ◼ ► Us about the simplicity it's about the applications about the history that the lack of baggage like there is a lot to [TS]
01:48:41 ◼ ► and so it's difficult to sort of it's difficult to say who is going to be able to make the moves the best [TS]
01:48:49 ◼ ► Like if we fast forward seven years what is the in terms of like how many tablets are soldiers [TS]
01:48:55 ◼ ► and army pc's are sold one of those ratios look like. Like eighty percent tablets and twenty percent P.C. [TS]
01:49:00 ◼ ► Is it fifty fifty that will know who got to the sweet spot first by looking at those ratios and you know decade or two. [TS]
01:49:15 ◼ ► I suspect we're going to see the category which ironically Microsoft started with you know these these are pretty much [TS]
01:49:23 ◼ ► like a laptop tablets the tablets that you know are basically just really small laptops running you know laptop type O. [TS]
01:49:32 ◼ ► S. As letter type software. Whether to convert or not I don't think is that relevant. [TS]
01:49:37 ◼ ► I think we're going to see the market split as it matures into you know phones are going to keep getting bigger until [TS]
01:49:44 ◼ ► they're all pretty much as big as they can be and still fit in most people's pockets. [TS]
01:49:47 ◼ ► So we'll have these big phones that were cut out a lot of the tablet used use cases are a lot of the tablet rationality [TS]
01:49:54 ◼ ► at least them are going to have the you know tablet for consumption people who like things like. [TS]
01:50:00 ◼ ► Big screens are who need to draw on them or do you do things that that most people could do on a phone [TS]
01:50:05 ◼ ► or better on on something with a bigger screen and those might be used at home a lot of whatever [TS]
01:50:10 ◼ ► and then we're going to have people who want to do productivity type tasks who are really going to want these laptop [TS]
01:50:20 ◼ ► and maybe that's it the twelve inch thing is you know that kind of thing I think that's going to be it's going to split [TS]
01:50:27 ◼ ► or you know non-traditional productivity use cases will keep will keep the current tablet form factor as like their [TS]
01:50:38 ◼ ► but I think people who keep trying to like put their i Pads in these big folio cases and attach a keyboard a bottom [TS]
01:50:44 ◼ ► and you know all these kind of like i Pad bolt ons trying to make it more like a computer. [TS]
01:50:48 ◼ ► I think we're going to see that usage merge into a really compact laptops that whether they run it you know [TS]
01:51:05 ◼ ► Operating systems with with tablet like hardware but with a keyboard with touch screens. [TS]
01:51:13 ◼ ► but probably not the problem is probably just what my talking about it is really like an i Pad Air hardware running an [TS]
01:51:20 ◼ ► arm port of a West has that early on that I really think that the productivity use is going to be so much better on [TS]
01:51:31 ◼ ► and my girls are taking the ball on this one because they're they're trying to do the thing we're describing [TS]
01:51:35 ◼ ► and not doing well at it for a variety of reasons not all of which have to do with the design [TS]
01:51:39 ◼ ► or probably a lot of them are just like market timing and issues with their Wes and all sorts of other issues [TS]
01:51:47 ◼ ► They haven't they bottom line is they haven't figured out to ignore all the Sauber ignore all the market things in the [TS]
01:51:52 ◼ ► world timings they just haven't figured out the hardware like kickstand floppy keyboard hinge no hints like I mean [TS]
01:52:00 ◼ ► It's like an eleven inch MacBook Air does all those things better in terms of you know if it's got the stiff hinge like [TS]
01:52:06 ◼ ► Give you a stiff pinch a keyboard that folds all the way on the on the back so and then a touch screen and then a NO S. [TS]
01:52:12 ◼ ► That you can actually use with touch like those are the ingredients they're kind of missing so far [TS]
01:52:18 ◼ ► Hopefully they will eventually find the correct combination of physical attributes [TS]
01:52:28 ◼ ► But Apple there is still an opportunity for Apple to figure that out before them if they decide to let us all be [TS]
01:52:33 ◼ ► watching for this you know this twelve inch reading there's a just is just another error that happens to be a different [TS]
01:52:42 ◼ ► I think Apple does not have an appetite to try to make a hybrid device of the type that I described in many many years [TS]
01:52:49 ◼ ► ago in a back page of common Macworld I think I was saying do a Lois and certainly Apple's not going to do that [TS]
01:52:55 ◼ ► but I'm not sure they're even trying to find a solution I think they're happy to allow things to evolve independently [TS]
01:53:04 ◼ ► Yeah I don't know I am more skeptical that I think it's really just like you know in the same way that that phone is [TS]
01:53:20 ◼ ► and having better battery lives will eat a lot of the top end of the market and so that I really don't. [TS]
01:53:25 ◼ ► I think so many of the people who are using tablets for part of the are going to be very satisfied in a few years with [TS]
01:53:32 ◼ ► a really small laptop that has a lot of the benefits of a tablet hardware while not having a lot of the limitations of [TS]
01:53:49 ◼ ► Helspont Linda dot com and new relic and we will see you next week. It was accidental accidental. [TS]
01:54:33 ◼ ► and I feel like I need to explain my Sega CD reference to the chat rooms getting it all wrong saying you know me them [TS]
01:55:06 ◼ ► Even if I think that was what the Jupiter project became that like it was like a toilet it was like a Genesis So you [TS]
01:55:22 ◼ ► Is because I was I was using a reference to to say it was infamous for putting out technology long before it could be [TS]
01:55:35 ◼ ► and it was the one of the first widespread CD-ROM gaming systems if not if not the first widespread one [TS]
01:55:46 ◼ ► and it was just awful it was a one extra Ivan load times were insane the graphics really weren't that much better than [TS]
01:55:52 ◼ ► a Genesis games and it didn't really add much Harbor was the genesis. It was just very expensive games are terrible. [TS]
01:56:00 ◼ ► Most like F. and Adventure games like the only game worth getting really were Sonic CD almost every game. [TS]
01:56:08 ◼ ► and the reason why I made the reference in relation to the surface was like the surface I think was Microsoft having [TS]
01:56:17 ◼ ► Basically before it can really be if it was going to be good I think they did it too early to be good. [TS]
01:56:24 ◼ ► So that's why I suggested the Sega CD because that was like they did it like a generation before the other CD-ROM [TS]
01:56:31 ◼ ► and the other ones were way better because they had the benefit of having better technology available to them [TS]
01:56:37 ◼ ► or the Sega CD was just like way too early way you know way before its time and pretty bad as a result [TS]
01:56:44 ◼ ► and that's why the thirty two X. Is not an appropriate reference for the thirty two X. [TS]
01:56:47 ◼ ► Failed for lots of reasons that had nothing to do with technology the technology actually pretty good [TS]
01:56:52 ◼ ► but it fails a lot of other reasons. When I was an intended kid as you can tell I was a Sega person. [TS]
01:57:07 ◼ ► and I want to tell the story on the pod cast I don't recall but when I was in high school [TS]
01:57:15 ◼ ► and from the beginning of college when I was at home I worked at a Babbage's which was a subsidiary of Game Stop [TS]
01:57:23 ◼ ► and I remember vividly peddling the Dreamcast like you couldn't even imagine before it came out. [TS]
01:57:30 ◼ ► It's going to be so much better to be awesome something awesome can be so much better it's going to be awesome [TS]
01:57:35 ◼ ► and it was so much better I would argue although I'm not going to stand on this one like I did the vinyl argument [TS]
01:57:42 ◼ ► Point being it came out like three people bought it and then it disappeared and saved all but folded after that [TS]
01:57:48 ◼ ► and you know the problem was that by all accounts I never had a Dreamcast but I played one a few times here and there. [TS]
01:57:54 ◼ ► By all accounts the Dreamcast was a good system. The problem was the Dreamcast followed the Sega CD. Thirty two X. [TS]
01:58:01 ◼ ► All of which were terrible game systems and so Sega fan base was pretty burned by that point [TS]
01:58:06 ◼ ► and there were other factors involved as well that made the Dreamcast kind of fail but [TS]
01:58:11 ◼ ► but you know the biggest problem the Dreamcast had nothing to do with a target the hardware was actually really good. [TS]
01:58:18 ◼ ► So John out of curiosity what what should we have been talking about besides the Sega CD and Katie Nintendo fanboy ism. [TS]
01:58:26 ◼ ► Well what what was the proper answer to what gives us as we used in the early ninety's I was saying what happened here [TS]
01:58:38 ◼ ► or on to the wagon I don't know which ever analogy is the one that I never strayed on that actually I mean for me [TS]
01:58:44 ◼ ► personally it was getting into things like personal side projects and like side programming projects and making [TS]
01:58:54 ◼ ► Like all this other stuff I'm doing with my free time where I just don't like there's never a time during the day [TS]
01:59:00 ◼ ► when I think I would like to spend the next hour playing a video game like I used to have those moments [TS]
01:59:05 ◼ ► and now I just don't buy. There is there are other ways are going to spend that time now. [TS]
01:59:14 ◼ ► and I was still hugely into that like I blew so many hours on Goldeneye in Mario Kart I can't even tell you [TS]
01:59:26 ◼ ► or more appropriately I might have actually started to have some modicum of success with. [TS]
01:59:30 ◼ ► But but I remember vividly buying a Play Station the original Play Station with my own money [TS]
01:59:37 ◼ ► and getting Metal Gear Solid in one of the final fantasies and playing the crap out of those [TS]
01:59:43 ◼ ► and then I never really looked back against an ever again. Oh here's where you two are missing right now. [TS]
01:59:53 ◼ ► and movies like you still both do that as a thing that you enjoy the experience afforded by the bad. [TS]
02:00:05 ◼ ► You've ever seen multiplied by twenty four people who are into games and who are you know fluent in the interface [TS]
02:00:12 ◼ ► and vocabulary of gaming a great game I think all gamers would agree is a superior experience to a great movie. [TS]
02:00:22 ◼ ► And so we integrate that into games I would think that a really great game could give you the equivalent experience of [TS]
02:00:32 ◼ ► It is going to be a lot of crap is going to last if you're not interested in that stuff is disappointing [TS]
02:00:37 ◼ ► but that's why I continue to find time in my schedule to play these games like the fall of the industry so it's just a [TS]
02:00:47 ◼ ► I don't have a lot of time to play games but I make time to play the games that I think are going to be great [TS]
02:00:54 ◼ ► and I'm glad I carve out that time in the same way that I carve out time to watch Game of Thrones [TS]
02:01:00 ◼ ► or all of those things that you find time in your schedule not so much every T.V. Show T.V. [TS]
02:01:07 ◼ ► and I feel the same way about you know playing the last of us or you know certainly journey [TS]
02:01:12 ◼ ► or anything like that so it's not like you know I'm not able to have have to be then you will have to be gamers [TS]
02:01:18 ◼ ► but I think that it isn't it's reasonable to assume that were you to pursue gaming there would be games that you would [TS]
02:01:29 ◼ ► Yeah but let's consider that I tend to have terrible taste in music television and movies. [TS]
02:01:35 ◼ ► So but then I'm in town like you like what you like is a bazillion games or there's a billion movies and T.V. [TS]
02:01:50 ◼ ► and then that's the kind of show you want there are gaming equivalent of that like I'm saying it's at this point it's a [TS]
02:02:02 ◼ ► but certainly in mass market appeal there's probably something you could find that would appeal to you the problem I [TS]
02:02:10 ◼ ► think for people who are an interest like Oh well how do I know what the tech like to me is just one big giant blob of [TS]
02:02:15 ◼ ► and if you're not following the game industry I'm reading game magazines really gaining new site the following game. [TS]
02:02:22 ◼ ► and if you just go to the store like all of us try this game you'll try it it will be crap. [TS]
02:02:25 ◼ ► You'll be annoyed you like see this is why I don't play games they're stupid right. [TS]
02:02:36 ◼ ► or maturity level that is preventing you is making you incapable of enjoying modern gaming because for a reasonable [TS]
02:02:42 ◼ ► proclamation everybody enjoys Munna game everybody's a gamer to some degree or another [TS]
02:02:48 ◼ ► and if anything you two are standing out as oddities and that he used to be gamers [TS]
02:02:52 ◼ ► and now as adults just sort of cut them out of your life entirely and that's becoming increasingly rare. [TS]
02:03:04 ◼ ► and go look at the numbers on the gaming industry go look at the average range of a gamer you are not in the majority. [TS]
02:03:13 ◼ ► and then not play games on there like in their thirty's. You know what do you think the average age of gamers. [TS]
02:03:23 ◼ ► but just look at the distribution look at how many people how big is the gaming industry how many copies the game sell [TS]
02:03:27 ◼ ► how many people say they play games at all like it's it's massive it is mass market. [TS]
02:03:32 ◼ ► Most people play games so most people who have any kind of computing device do I don't know what the mark on this I [TS]
02:03:40 ◼ ► but well that never stopped you know I mean you know that is that that doesn't pass the smell test for me what's [TS]
02:03:51 ◼ ► I'll let the others the readers wrote in and tell you all the doesn't it. Do you stop playing games. [TS]
02:04:00 ◼ ► I'd found non-human thing and all and you also find I'm commencing but I will do it again. [TS]
02:04:03 ◼ ► It's kind of like if you know my grandparents my grandparents parents said to them that my grandparents [TS]
02:04:11 ◼ ► and say You guys are still playing piano Arkell you don't grow out of cards how can you play it like they played it [TS]
02:04:17 ◼ ► and their kids they play it to the day they died they played it just you know that was their version of games these [TS]
02:04:23 ◼ ► They didn't grow out of them and in the same way most anyone who's actually game of course never grows out of them [TS]
02:04:28 ◼ ► but at this point like anyone who grew up with games continues to play in the whole life they don't stop playing them [TS]
02:04:34 ◼ ► in the same way that my grandparents never stop playing pinnacle it's just you know you don't it's not something you [TS]
02:04:38 ◼ ► grow out of it's not like a child's toy there's no such thing as as adults would never want to do it. [TS]
02:04:46 ◼ ► Games are not like us I think you still watch movies is not a kid thing you still do you still read books. [TS]
02:04:52 ◼ ► and I don't want to I don't want to suggest that games are juvenile because that's not at all what I mean that's not why [TS]
02:04:57 ◼ ► I stopped playing them for the most part it's literally just like there are many different ways to entertain yourself [TS]
02:05:03 ◼ ► and I have chosen to not play very many games anymore if it was to hard to play any at all anymore because all of the [TS]
02:05:11 ◼ ► alternatives all the alternatives to to to amusing myself worked or to spending time. [TS]
02:05:17 ◼ ► Things like you know you present the Internet or socializing online or watching T.V. [TS]
02:05:25 ◼ ► but that's not true because you love you interest both love board games and yes it's not video games but it's games [TS]
02:05:32 ◼ ► and if we're broadening the case if I'm moving the goal post that that that to me counts [TS]
02:05:49 ◼ ► and what was that we played just this past week and already forgotten Qwirkle Thank you. [TS]
02:05:54 ◼ ► Games like that I really enjoy and the other thing I found that I fill my free time with if I'm not sure. [TS]
02:06:00 ◼ ► Farting around on the Internet is I've gotten really back into reading novels again which I used to do a lot as well as [TS]
02:06:09 ◼ ► and so realizing that the local library is one of the best inventions of the world. [TS]
02:06:15 ◼ ► I've been I've pretty much had a book with me almost always for the last six months to a year. [TS]
02:06:19 ◼ ► OK now you're now you're back in the minority again because most North Americans anyway don't read it was it was scary [TS]
02:06:25 ◼ ► to statistics about how many people don't read a novel after they graduate from high school that is not here [TS]
02:06:30 ◼ ► and I don't think about it but gaming is much more mass market then than reading novels. That's probably true. [TS]
02:06:37 ◼ ► and that really you guys to game a little bit like you're saying what you're saying like if I'm not playing Grand Theft [TS]
02:06:41 ◼ ► Auto not gaming I mean like what a Press Council you know playing playing total annihilation [TS]
02:06:47 ◼ ► or whatever you're playing with your friends that you know your friend's wedding like accounts like that's not why it [TS]
02:06:52 ◼ ► didn't happen. Well failure to play till I leave. That's P.C. It's a P.C. Gaming P.C. [TS]
02:07:00 ◼ ► but even console like I have a P S three the only game I have for it is is the white out version it was a download game [TS]
02:07:11 ◼ ► but I also just wanted a blue ray player at the time it was about the same price as a blue ray player so I get to be as [TS]
02:07:19 ◼ ► But that's not true either is it because I thought you had something to learn the nurturing on was that the P S three [TS]
02:07:25 ◼ ► or the expo I forget which right shows if that you know that might even appear three I forget [TS]
02:07:32 ◼ ► Teller OK I might have to give the problem for getting into these type AAA type games is that like if you're out of it [TS]
02:07:41 ◼ ► and you're you you're lacking in the literacy of the current gaming conventions in your honour's And so yeah you can [TS]
02:07:47 ◼ ► fire up like a driving game with driving into driving games but where you shoe I mean that's why I'm not. [TS]
02:07:52 ◼ ► That's why I don't spend my time encouraging you too much to play journey because I feel like if you played it it would [TS]
02:08:00 ◼ ► It's almost like you know we spent so much time encouraging beautiful kids they're going to I know well. [TS]
02:08:06 ◼ ► and so now it's like now almost like I'd rather you not play a role you have a bunch of warm up again it's not a point [TS]
02:08:12 ◼ ► because like you because you claim to be like kind of boring like the game would be lost on us [TS]
02:08:18 ◼ ► and they were like you have you have a P S three should you play the last of us know if you haven't played a AAA video [TS]
02:08:23 ◼ ► and years the last of us is not it's not going to work for you the way it works for the people who are still you know [TS]
02:08:30 ◼ ► sort of in the AAA gaming thing you were definitely both of you in the more of the casual gaming space. [TS]
02:08:35 ◼ ► Yeah get Monument Valley it's fun like I don't think it's you know it's all right it's not amazing I think it's a [TS]
02:08:44 ◼ ► and not even as I think your walk was a much better game for example I think really goes fishing is a better game for [TS]
02:08:50 ◼ ► But those are the games where you don't need a lot of contacts you can just dive right into them [TS]
02:08:56 ◼ ► I played ridiculous fishing for about ten minutes and didn't see the appeal and I know everyone loved it [TS]
02:09:01 ◼ ► and so that I assume you know what happens is I will try these games that everyone says are amazing [TS]
02:09:09 ◼ ► I'll try them and most of them I mean you know you're going to threes and letterpress you know like the kind of [TS]
02:09:17 ◼ ► but most of these games that people just totally obsess over I don't find them that fun [TS]
02:09:24 ◼ ► and so I assume there's something wrong with me that I'm just not a gamer because I don't like what everyone else likes [TS]
02:09:29 ◼ ► but you but you are like you you made your own units for whatever that was is a total annihilation I mean like [TS]
02:09:36 ◼ ► Those you still how do you think I want to play it like that still inside you is just that now all of your all of your [TS]
02:09:44 ◼ ► when you try to play something minor doesn't work casually as I'm going to go fishing [TS]
02:09:47 ◼ ► when I first tried it too I thought like you know whatever but like there is there is a hook in the game [TS]
02:09:53 ◼ ► or two for that hook to find purchase minute value simpler but I think it's more of a trifle. [TS]
02:10:00 ◼ ► Your walk is probably when you are not you need to be game to play that someone is trying to like threes [TS]
02:10:05 ◼ ► and letterpress you guys go have no problem getting that you want to because it's more like a board game which Marco [TS]
02:10:09 ◼ ► does play actively like you then you're like Oh I understand what this is about our life it's like by the way by [TS]
02:10:16 ◼ ► or games with with like you know friends who are over sometimes I would say we probably play board games for maybe an [TS]
02:10:24 ◼ ► hour and a half every two months like we're not talking about a frequent hobby I would like to play more of them [TS]
02:10:31 ◼ ► but yeah doesn't like i don't get the chance that often I mean that's like that's I think more of a time investment from [TS]
02:10:37 ◼ ► my perspective than than a video game because like you got to get all the stuff out [TS]
02:10:41 ◼ ► and you got to get the multiple people now have to be there in a row like where is a video game you can steal time to [TS]
02:10:45 ◼ ► play more conveniently than you could steal because you can't play you know like one of these complicated German board [TS]
02:10:50 ◼ ► games that requires five people and they ought to know the rules or any of us are going to be there for an hour [TS]
02:10:58 ◼ ► or even put an extra hour of like how to play the last of us have played it when the kids were asleep [TS]
02:11:08 ◼ ► and I could not play that if I had a board game that I was interested in I would be like you [TS]
02:11:12 ◼ ► and waiting around to have time to gather a bunch of people who also want to play a board game who also know the rules [TS]
02:11:16 ◼ ► to play the board game so I think that's it's harder to find time to do that but you managed to do it like [TS]
02:11:22 ◼ ► and it's fine I'm just saying like I think that there is enjoyment to be had there is nothing in you that's making that [TS]
02:11:27 ◼ ► making you like oh I'm just not a game I guess I don't love these games that everybody loves a lot of times it is [TS]
02:11:31 ◼ ► missing the context for it and I think there are games out there that you would enjoy. [TS]
02:11:38 ◼ ► but I think you're right that it that I'm not willing to put in a massive time investment to try to find these things [TS]
02:11:48 ◼ ► Oh yeah I'm going to I'm going to spend this whole Saturday afternoon like like if my wife sent out a tandem I couldn't [TS]
02:12:00 ◼ ► Our program I love doing those things that I had to do that then go to the T.V. and Play a game. [TS]
02:12:07 ◼ ► Someday be ready for a journey market maybe every atom God will want to play games probably because they're fun thing [TS]
02:12:13 ◼ ► to do and kids have nothing to do but you know they have nothing but free time right. [TS]
02:12:16 ◼ ► So maybe he'll help you get your into them but some day when you're ready. Kiran he will be there for you personally. [TS]
02:12:22 ◼ ► Yes five remastered version. Yeah and it you know if that happens like you know if my kid into playing games. [TS]
02:12:30 ◼ ► and play with him that's a whole different story then I would you know because I'm spending time with my kid [TS]
02:12:40 ◼ ► Well but is that how you probably suck too you don't realize it. No not my family. [TS]
02:12:52 ◼ ► Right now it's time for titles I love so see that we've covered the Fed So far we've had ten reviews. [TS]