The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► people treating me think that was drunk last show you didn't get essentially [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► terrible best not to use only when your drunk like when your second people [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► people crazy so what we talked about tonight I think I know I mean I think we [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► have to talk about the Google Reader thing I think we do so let me start by [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► asking to either of you guys believe in RSS I presume the answer is a resounding [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► yes it exists whether you believe it or not it's all good just like Love III use [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► ours is constantly lot of people have always said that the RSS is dead and I i [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► dont use RSS I could replace it with Twitter whatever and I think that's true [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► for a lot of people certainly but RSS as a technology is fine it behind the [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► scenes of quite a lot of things and a lot of people do use it the way you [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► think of when you say do you use are as a lot of people still do that and I [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► don't really think that's ever going away because it serves water really good [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► functions of the problem with ours as well one of the problems are says is [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► that it gives you a really really easy way to shoot yourself in the foot which [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► is you subscribe to all the sites that everyone's heard of all the big like 30 [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► posts a day blogs and news sites and everything so it's very very easy to [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► reach a point where you're getting like 500 new RSS items per day and you just [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► don't you can get all that and so it piles up and it becomes this guilt in [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► box that you never want to clear and so I usually that results in New abandoning [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► our assessment can I can never go back to RSS too many unread items you know [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► that happens a lot especially with geeks and so I can totally see why people move [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► off of our assessment at that point but it doesn't mean that you have to admit [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► the only option and doesn't mean RSS is dead or dying it just means you're using [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► it badly and sure you know it it's partially the technology's fault for [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► being so easy to misuse or to use an unsustainable way for you for yourself [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► but [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► that's not to say the entire technology is dead and you can eat people at the [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► same problem with Twitter where they follow too many people and they can't [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► keep up with their feed and so they they find ways around it they skip everything [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► is one of the top of the only look at new stuff or whatever you know that you [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► find ways around it [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► they trim their follower counts right you know we think alike you know lots of [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► people saying well nobody uses are so small but obviously in our circles in [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► the sort of three travel and on the net it I think the usage is still pretty [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► widespread I was looking at you know group just we did a little before he [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► treated his stats on a website but he tweeted the actual like logline 200,000 [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► and 400,000 subscribers all nobody uses are as well apparently 400,000 people at [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► least are using it because that's just from one site stats right so that's it [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► yeah we're a tiny group of people right but you know in the circle of travel and [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► computer nerds is big enough to sustain a technology because this point [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► technologies we use that nobody else interested in a mean like how many [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► people use Xcode and it still viable products because it has a purpose right [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► so that the net remains to be seen [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► you know like I mean we sustained winner for a long time just ourselves we're not [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► discovered IRC it's not I don't think the like the popularity of the the [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► technology its way past the threshold like it's viable right so the only [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► question is you know the technology is viable there's more than enough people [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► want to use it more than enough people to sustain a market for the usage of [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► that is just a question of where do we go from here now that you know goal came [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► along and pushed everybody out and then took its bomb I know right and and you [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► know a lot of people are saying to google said that using has been [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► declining so it's not worth keeping up well there's a whole lot of businesses [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► that are not worth the Google paying attention to at their size but that a [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► lot of smaller companies can make very good businesses addressing those needs [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► you know there's a lot of things Google doesn't do i mean certainly you can look [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► at some of their projects and they do everything is a major flop [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► experimentation but you know if RSS is now too small for Google to care about [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► that doesn't mean that is too small for anyone to care [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► about it's not so much that I don't think that's too small too cool to care [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► about like now as if like this I don't know how much i buy the thing i wud [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► declining readership it's it's almost as if like they didn't never had a reason [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► to get into it all anyway really like I think by the time they got into it was [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► clear that it wasn't going to be the next winter [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► you know like ours as it was what it was and it was never gonna like suddenly [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► bust out in because it's kind of like it's kinda like using the day's news and [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► stuff it ending using that was going to sweep the nation and run the world and [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► just become like it was already used that was already you know sort of the [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► thing that it was but you know I guess we might as well have that and them [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► having a reasonable free products such a long period of time [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► kind of doing intentionally to crash everybody else but the the net effect [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► was good really good at keeping their servers up cool is really good at making [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► their service fast and doing the things they were doing is actually kind of [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► difficult and they're giving away for free so the company like NewsGator is [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► something we're trying to make a business out of it couldn't do it was [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► like yeah we're better than Google Reader but just barely and their free [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► and so you know they just SAT there until everyone else has gone out of [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► business in the city why are we even doing Google Reader I don't know what [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► stop doing that I mean I think they kept going longer than they had to come like [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► a relationship where you want to break up with somebody like just keep you know [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► like four years I think anyone who is surprised by this I would be shocked [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► because like I've been looking forward to for years and things like why are [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► they still going every day we all knew the hammer was gonna fall years and [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► years like even a blog post about a nightmare reading his blog postings [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► angle yet Google Reader is not long for this world and yet here we are two years [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► later and I'm just finally getting around axing it so I don't know anyone [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► who's mad Google tracks and understand where that comes from other than just [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► frustration I totally I totally see why they're getting rid of it and your post [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► the bond market you put on your website just like this finally freezes all up to [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► maybe do something interesting in the area that's also true but I think people [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► are still bummed I was bomb because we know like alright [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► that the other shoe finally dropped now we have to have this period of time [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► where there's nothing healthy weight for something you know what I mean is [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► already there is only a matter of a familiar for the do it together they [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► make some clients marxist clients be posted on their blog like a very fast [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► after very quickly after Google+ their thing that they've they are kinda [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► preparing for this for a while and they built an API compatible clone of Google [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► Reader for themselves that their clients will automatically start syncing with [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► Google Reader shuts down and and is already like a number i mean just [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► tonight on Twitter I thought about building one there's already tons of [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► people saying OK announcer in this new project is gonna marry the Google API [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► and you can self-hosted open source or whatever or somebody else can build a [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► big platform on it I do think though it was really funny that feeling in their [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► post they said okay so we thought it was gonna shut us down for a while so we [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► built this thing we built on Google AppEngine but that's the thing about it [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► like what do you know it's not that we're Google Reader did it so [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► groundbreaking it's the fact that it was run by Google which meant that it was up [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► and available in there and I'm sure people are going to say oh is down until [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► recently the reason having someone else do this annoying stuff like that [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► operation stuff running a server keeping up keeping efficient having it work at [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► scale from many brazilians [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► even RSS like oh the declining usership the number of people are getting Google [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► Reader is huge compared to like you know you're some little companies ok well [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► we're gonna have seven million people over tomorrow and pull stuff from it is [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► that you're ok with that can you scale sure it's not easy and one of the [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► biggest challenges of designing a service like that is that Google called [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► the feeds and then the client just logged into Google and said hey what's [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► new [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► so Google had to maintain this crawling infrastructure the entire internet right [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► now so we're kind of unique position right is that better than you right but [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► for anyone else to do it you have to build a crawling at the structure that [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► has to crawl like millions and millions of feeds quickly and repeatedly [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► new updates do you think that's an important part of the service them all [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► yet it is absolutely great yeah because that's a that's a major thing that your [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► app doesn't have to do if you're running RSS client that's a big deal and it also [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► they normalize all the feeds into one particular Adam format so you only one [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► partner I mean it's there's there's lots of reasons for clients to want to do it [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► that way service against that so yeah I think any service Google Reader is going [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► to have to provide at least the automatic content crawling and [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► normalization of the field format now that they can leave out all the social [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► stuff they can leave out flagging tagging starring all they can leave all [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► that stuff out as far as I'm concerned but the basics of sinking a list of [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► features ascribe to thinking what you have read and unread and providing that [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► whole crawling back end so that the client doesn't have to do it I think any [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► any replacement has to do those things and why the crying part that's just [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► basically so the client doesn't have to open up ten million TCP connections to [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► ten nine different servers and pull stuff from it exactly what we see this [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► and we see this week podcast clients on on iOS there there is I think only one I [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► think only pocket cast by shifty jelly they do server-side crawling of all the [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► feeds similar to a career doesn't RSS I don't think any other major client does [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► that please e-mail John if I'm wrong I will let you know that actually but like [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► I use downcast my feet from my podcast client and every time you launch the app [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► has to update it has to crawl whatever you know all 25 or whatever number feed [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► subscribe to individually and that sucks and it's a big waste of bandwidth for [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► things that don't implement not modified stuff like that it's very inefficient on [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► like a thin client like phone we don't really want to have some massive on a [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► desktop we're just playing in the background who cares [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► rightists if you have some app in the back on its fine but an iOS that matters [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► a lot when you launch the app you don't have to sit there for a minute and a [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► half all qualities feeds you know Google Reader clients are awesome because [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► they only have to sink to one thing they only have to get Google and Google back [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► saying here's a list of new things instead of with RSS you might have way [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► more subscriptions on the podcast client so what are you if you subscribe to like [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► 250 feeds and most of them are updated most of the time but there's a few that [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► are that's way more efficient to do the Google Reader way where the service I [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► cross everything than that required the clients across hundred fifty feeds every [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► 15 minutes that you launch them a transitional things like fast forward 20 [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► years is still a factor that we still have like an awesome teen core [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► processors and R&R wristwatch communicative things and bandwidth is [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► really high and we just as actually faster to call crawl hundred fifty [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► different URLs in parallel than to ask one server 40 no cause think about think [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► about what you have to do you have to if you so much more did it the radios on [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► longer I mean that's it that's never gonna be a more efficient it's always [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► gonna be better to go through the intermediate and I will be more [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► efficient but maybe the desktop on the desktop is not as much of a factor [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► because we're not worried about opening up opening up a TCP connection takes a [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► long time so you don't have to open up one of them it's better than having to [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► open up a hundred and fifty but the bandwidth concerns like assuming mobile [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► bandwidth you know goes away and the CPU concerns of having all these threads [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► going at once which is untenable on iOS device today maybe that isn't in the [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► future I'm just wondering if it's like one of those things where I remember [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► back when to do any sort of are assessing the server like we don't do [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► that for the web we don't do all the mobile web surfing through a proxy [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► unless you I guess my self and non-self does that everybody used to be in the [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► bad old days the mobile web surfing had to go through a proxy cuz it had to like [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► tear down the pages for you and all sorts of all things in the Amazon still [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► doing it but we accept now the tradeoff is like a rather have Mobile Safari just [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► go right to the website don't compress my images don't modify the mark up like [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► a real web browser it connects the real way and we're just gonna bite the bullet [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► and go with that it seems to me that that's gotta be eventually the future so [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► we are still around [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► that's got to be the future of this type of service long-term not not last long [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► but also the RSS like the access path [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► is different with RSS almost all of those requests that the polling client [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► makes are gonna be returned back with nothing to you know i three of three or [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► four whenever you know nothing new so for the client after check that over and [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► over again is extremely wasteful so and one way you can solve this is with push [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► up somehow and RSS cloud to address this push issue but pushes really complicated [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► to implement all various ends of it the polling was just way similar sites we [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► still have it but you know with RSS I think it makes a lot of sense because [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► almost all of the polls that happened will result in nothing new this fifty [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► minute interval then it makes sense to have all that inefficient polling [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► happening somewhere else that can tolerate inefficiency is like a [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► datacenter that's powered by AC power and on a battery that has a big fat [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► connection to the Internet and is always running this app as opposed to it after [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► launch and you have to look I S apt who knows how this will change in the future [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► but at the moment [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► iOS apps like RSS readers can't automatically check things in the [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► background about 15 minutes they have to be running and so when you launch it has [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► to lose all that state from something right then and there are so many reasons [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► to have that be remote based and have you know have a Google Reader like setup [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► where the service doing all the crawling in the client just send you one very [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► lightweight request to the server which is already done most of the work and I [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► think the thing that that maybe we're not considering is the difference it is [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► at creation time and money guys kind of lightly touching the second ago but if I [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► was about to write a pirate in RSS client tomorrow I wouldn't want to have [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► to fiddle around with with trying to figure out all the different and varied [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► responses I'm gonna get from all these different and varied web servers I want [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► something that's going to be a facade in front of that that's going to make them [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► nice and clean and so I can get the part of the app that i dont wanna do which is [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► the behind the scenes boring getting the the RSS updates and I can get that out [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► of the way as quickly as possible so I can do the cool stuff on the UI side now [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► as it turns out I actually am a terrible UI developer but in principle if your [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► gonna right now [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► do it because you have something new and exciting to do and you're not going to [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► want to bother with doing on the back end stuff you can do all the UI stuff in [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► in like you were saying Marco having one place to get all that normalized and in [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► a clean clean stayed is much better nazis you so much time went by before [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► you compile when you're just writing the code it saves so much time and that I [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► don't think many people have very much interest in doing that boring stuff they [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► just want to do the fun you I study also there there's a practical aspect of lake [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► with with iOS apps in the App Store if there are some new weirdo feed that you [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► find that some weird format if it's a service I configuration of the parser [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► you can update immediately and all your clients have immediately you don't have [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► to recode the apple butter a preview and channeling they wanted you might be like [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► the idea that I and the idea of all all rss feeds funneling into a service which [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► includes a nap I see all the reasons for it but it just sits a seems like Amazon [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► Silk to me it seems like wow that was like it that's that it just smells like [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► that to me and it seems like it's just a bump in the road along our way to fully [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► decentralized thinking maybe maybe we need a new protocol that may be pulling [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► down entire RSS feed or expecting a three or four based on some time stamp [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► hopefully getting your time zone right and everything is not like me maybe [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► there's a better product may be tapped net or something that looks similar to [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► that where if you make it more efficient protocol and really decentralized it in [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► some way maybe it makes up for it but I mean you know the other aspect of things [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► not just that the content crying but the main reason the main way that I use [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► Google Reader I think at least a quarter of the people who are regular readers [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► use in this way as as a syncing service as in I read news as you know that's an [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► activity I do in some place and when I go someplace else a different computer [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► different device or whatever I wanted to know that I read that thing [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► other thing and that is really an entirely separate thing from irate my [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► feeds normalize them tell me this updates and stuff like that because now [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► you're into like a state synchronization that has nothing to do with the fees as [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► everything to do with you what did you read so far you know what did you [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► subscribe to what they do on the subscribe to and that state [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► synchronization is probably harder problem you know algorithmic [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► algorithmically least to find figure out what the hell the right thing is to do [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► that then the near operational problem of crying the entire web of RSS feeds [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► and normalizing them of writing a response like that and so those those [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► two things that's quite a bit for any one party or multiple parties to bite [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► off because that's what people are looking for you you'd never see the Guru [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► web UI some people live in it but I never even look at that news wire and I [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► used on various devices on various machines and I wanted to be in sync so I [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► want something to do that as well as like the normalization I don't see that [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► that's going on it's more of a development concern so something doesn't [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► normalizing doesn't aggravate and for example doesn't cash which you know the [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► thing that drives everyone who authors and artists be crazy about careers you [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► get a bomb item in their never forget another opportunity for someone coming [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► into this field to do it better hey give us a way to delete that crap out or [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► maybe have smart caching that forgets it disappears but anyway those the sinking [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► aspect of it it is what I'm really looking for in some third party vendor [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► to hop up and say hey we're going to provide a service for all your news [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► reading applications to keep them on sink and will charge some small amount [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► of money in your subscribe to it or something like that yeah it snowed fever [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► is that right fever response to that is what we like self-hosted and what does [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► it mean but the problem is like when you ask people to sell host I can I know and [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► technical and knowledge but I don't know I agree some posting as that will always [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► accept your audience and requiring that I mean if it's a good way to learn [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► something you don't know about all the technologies involved self hosting is a [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► good learning experience for with an audience of one so you're not like you [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► know destroying some [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► business you know learning about suicide development but it's the you know that's [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► that's hosting is not going to explode now that Google Reader is gone but we [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► all wanted something to do with Google Reader did for us because you know when [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► I read something that it's red and everything is fast and all my clients [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► work with it and you know and some people use the web interface for them [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► they're looking for an equivalent or better web interface I i think i I think [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► the web interface hopefully is is on its way out for RSS because I mean certainly [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► RSS is being pushed pretty heavily it always was a very eccentric technology [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► and and while there are non geeks user I'm sure there are a heck of a lot more [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► geeks who do and so if RSS like if if the web reader experience never fully [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► gets replaced I think that's fine where I think we're going to see you know I [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► think we're gonna see to these come out of us first we gonna see you know [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► obviously we're going to see that the the backend sinking platform will be [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► replaced by a million different people doing doing basically doing the same [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► thing which is just marrying the Google Reader API with some kind of hosted or [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► open source thing that anybody can get or use and at school and we need that [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► would be kind of a shame because everything i've heard from people who [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► develop against the career API I've makes it doesn't help that it was [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► undocumented unsupported breath like if you had if you had to pick an API to [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► make it easy for app developers to implement same thing maybe the Google [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► reedy API is not ideal I understand how to do it [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► compatibility with all the people who are talking to Google Reader but if I [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► was doing one of the projects I would be like ok do the Google Reader API [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► mirroring to get us off the ground but let's plan like a much better ABI the [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► makes it even easier for developers to you know and I can that be like version [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► too often a different places like sure you know yeah I'm actually I'm sure that [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► will happen with almost all of these where they will make they will start out [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► with a pair of bootstrap it and then they'll have their own light clean nice [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► new API but the Google Reader API is probably gonna be the standard if there [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► is one like you know right now it was really easy to make an RSS happen last [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► year's because all you had [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► to do was give people Google Reader username password fields online login [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► that was it now I think we're gonna basically see a third field being added [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► to that which is like hostname [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► like whatever whatever service you are using the API type in the hostname here [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► and then type in your password for any thoughts you boxes I think that's that's [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► the easiest way forward for the clients and so if that is the outcome if that's [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► what you know assume assume we have like multiple multiple services that spring [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► up there gonna be like this that are going to replace Google Reader and get [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► some popularity if that's the case none of them will have the leverage to make a [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► new API Google Reader likely be stuck with it [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► just look at the declines have already written all the code for it you know why [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► why would I rewrite my client new fancy but I've already got my client working [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► with red is working with it for five years now whatever you know why would I [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► change of our new API's cleaner for new development you get those guys on board [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► but like thats I think that would be a shame because like I said it's not like [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► people saying Google Reader is the most awesome API for sinking and you know [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► keeping track of stuff maybe not so awesome as a funny side borrow one of [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► the weird little projects I did a tumblr was back back before before Twitter [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► bought Tweetie from Arbor 21 its own app and everyone loved it there is one of [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► the very advanced settings fields was API hostname and you could type in any [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► host name there and it would it would use that as the basis of all the Twitter [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► API URLs so I wrote the Twitter API for tumblr enough of it so that you can [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► browse tumblr into et just using this field to say like forever and it was it [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► was it was interesting was it again like him like you got this whole app kind of [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► for free by just making burgers mirroring enough of Twitter's API to [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► make this work that's why that's why I'm saying like that RSS like not that it's [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► inadequate but that [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► it's just a piece of the puzzle be like our RSS RSS and Atom our standards for [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► do representation but they're they're not they don't help you with the art so [TS]

00:24:06 ◼   ► what about you might have an API that is efficient and can give you [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► synchronization information like that would have to be a layer on top of it [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► and then that larry is that ok with that [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► defacto that is the Google Reader API because that's the most climax ran [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► against it and it's you know is the only player in town and it was free in like [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► an hour now that's our middle layer and you know it would be nicer if there was [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► a similarly open standard like RSS or Atom to fill that role that wasn't just [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► like the the leftover droppings of a company that was once vaguely interested [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► in the business lost interest [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► yeah and and it's also worth speculating on why did this little bit more I just [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► thought of a new theory now I think the real reason they shut it down is because [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► I've heard from various people over the last couple of months as we start to see [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► problems I've heard that the staff assigned to work on Google Reader was [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► basically between 0 and three people do you believe in how you measure so I've [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► heard it had basically nobody working on it and so member it had it had a pretty [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► bad outings like a week or two ago something like that I'm guessing what [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► happened was it was working fine for a long time and then things started to [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► break and when things started to break a few weeks ago whenever that was nobody [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► had a fix it code for years and so that's probably what made you decide you [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► know what this is just easier to kill them to fix because it's not giving us [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► enough value might as well just kill it rather than maintaining the real reason [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► but it's worth considering one conspiracy I think like crazy reason is [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► when you're reading RSS you're not going to people's websites and seeing [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► ads as I mean things they don't like about from a business perspective [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► business reason that you can think to get rid of this thing is like look if [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► only they know these numbers but how many people are using it as an API that [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► they never see like how many people using apps like reader and that is why [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► we never and never see a single one of our ads because all they like it's just [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► an API back at all we're doing is providing computing horsepower and [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► uptime for them for 30 benefit and never Sierra the people on the web interface [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► they can show them as they can you know harvest their interests and you know [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► it's just like Gmail like if everybody use the web interface and if that [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► everybody was a much larger number than it currently is it would still be around [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► but from a business perspective i think im very large number of people don't use [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► the web interface and the total sum of all Google Reader uses so much more than [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► like this gmail user base or whatever that it just doesn't make any sense to [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► keep it right and to that end if you're going to replace Google Reader why would [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► you get into that business of the whole point of the businesses was t it is to [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► use third-party clients and I guess this comes back tapped out an ad in the ideas [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► well you have super nerds that are affluent enough that they'll be able to [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► spare few bucks a month to pay for it or node 50 bucks a year whatever the number [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► maybe but I wouldn't want to get into that business that seems to get back to [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► grouper with this 400,000 RSS subscribers that's how he makes money [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► from a site you nobody has one of the ways he he sells RSS sponsorships and [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► you get to your sponsoring the RSS feed which thing that the customers mornin [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure the answer to both of those are in the RSS feed as well right [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► so if you if you control the RSS feeds you can certain tannen to RSS feeds all [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► the people there are maybe that maybe that model does not work and people hate [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► it but you know the apt 9 a.m. I'll certainly more direct passed a little [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► bit and you get to use their synchronization service and now wherever [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► you read you know like that could be that service I don't think it's quite [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► designer for this thing exactly about you know that's the question of like [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► okay so Google was subsidizing a result profitable business like an order search [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► revenue like that they were doing is more or less out of the goodness of [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► their own heart [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► higher-level not quite i mean they they want to have access to all the world's [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► information and and this and a lot of information flows through RSS 2.0 feed [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► burner 47 fever is more of an ad by but you know I I think it made sense why [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► they started this in the first place [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► didn't even when they bought feel very though it's like i don't think anyone to [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► Google had any any notion that RSS was going to grow tremendously from the [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► point where they bought it and it hasn't and the point where they bought it [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► already wasn't like everything was it was big among nerds but it was never [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► like this the growth curve was never never never any illusions it was gonna [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► take off like Facebook or Twitter was no hockey stick curb at the time that they [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► bought into it maybe they wanted to have it just because like there's no sense in [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► other people in other people having this thing and people spending time elsewhere [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► and maybe like the long-term evil plan is alright we gotta get this because it [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► is a thing is not a big thing is not gonna grow but we need to get it so we [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► can just kind of quietly put it to sleep which is you know the rap on Google when [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► they buy companies you know John Cooper you know I don't name names of the [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► companies that Google is bought that it kind of like faded away you never really [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► hear about them again or the you know or are they just don't improve rapidly or [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► they just you know it's like if it's on Google's umbrella they have the option [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► to to let it go live up on a farm upstate whenever they feel like it right [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► i think i mean first of all there's a big problem here but it's kind of a mean [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► this this has a lot of parallels to win more controversial things but you know [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► what they did really and I don't think they I don't think they plan to this but [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► what happened was a Google Reader came out and destroyed a very big market of [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► desktop RSS readers and web Google just came in and destroyed it was free and it [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► synced and none of the things did at the time and they destroyed and they held on [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► to that market for eight years and now they're killing it now but now you know [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► I think one has to wonder how did they destroy the market for the desktop app [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► apps like how do they make it so it's no longer viable to sell the absolute they [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► definitely destroy the services like NewsGator newsletter is trying to tell [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► you [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► synchronization services but a desktop out i mean what they did to the desktop [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► apps on iOS apps even more insidious didn't destroy them they just made it so [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► that you know they were the only game in town for a thing that those people [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► needed but didn't wanna write well as writing you know and so now all the [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► clients not reader uses Google Reader newswire uses Google Reader and all this [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► you know all these things use Google Reader is this the only game in town and [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► now they're hooked onto the strain the Google is not always kind of mad at [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► anybody so it wasn't the sync engine that killed the stock lines it was the [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► web interface it was it was making it making RSS reading free so you think [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► that took people away people stop buying a newswire as they could just go to the [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► Google Reader website absolutely definitely I disagree I completed not [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► people but I will tell you I can guarantee you there was another gonna [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► guess like who would we go to to get that information like we could google [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► presumably knows how many people use 32 over the lifetime they could show that [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► growth sure I guess brent controls the growth curve like sales newswire it with [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► his deal with the NewsGator but I can tell you i mean just haven't lived [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► through that anecdotally I saw that happen I saw I saw many artists clients [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► just give up and die and the few that were left with a ones integrated Google [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► Reader like you had I gave a resurgence yeah it wasn't like Google reader's [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► website went away and in fact I believe it worked reasonably well on mobile from [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► from as early as anything more than a resurgence in suddenly like things like [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► reader what a creature of violence like they wouldn't have it was not newswire [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► was sitting there as the once once and possibly not future king of desktop [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► reader market and people were not clamoring to rear applications but it is [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► the iPhone launch now everyone wants to write a news reader applications across [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► all talking to you the reader you some idea of you readers dominance right now [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► I I put my feed stats and [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► ninety percent of subscribers to my feed are subscribed via Google Reader sank [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► like that's how big this is ninety percent of my my subscribers and then [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► like there's like I have a hundred web interface right no they don't they don't [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► distinguish but you know that give you some idea like if this service shuts [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► down not only is it is leaving a gaping hole in the in the RSS Inc business but [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► this could have a massive impact on the readership of websites like I can also [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► boost their ad impressions eventually have to go to the website maybe but like [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► one of the reasons are so great is because it allows you to very easily [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► follow sites that don't update frequently enough you a check every day [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► so before our staff came out if you had a blog posted once a month [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► nobody would read it and post every day so that people would go to your site [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► everyday and check for new stuff and a lot of people as someone who has a [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► website that posts not once a month of people still generally yes but there's a [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► great power of RSS is allowing you enabling you to follow a whole bunch of [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► sites that update infrequently and be and doing that in a manageable way so [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► because it's so easy to read them then those who had written frequently they [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► have better audiences they have more reach their more influential even if [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► they don't write every day and you can get some of that value now from Twitter [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► Facebook and all these other crappy services please in OKC but there's still [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► so much of that happening on RSS as you can tell by you know stats from me and [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► group or anybody else a ton of that activity as an RSS so [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► I think it could be really disruptive come July when the shutdown and sites [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► like mine and groupers and other people who have like heavy RSS readership in [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► the geeky spaces sites like this we could see major shifts in in either [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► direction huh sure we could see major shifts and how people read our sites and [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► you'll be able to tell the month leading up I guess I think my Google reader [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► supports a little subscriber numbers in long lines and everything like if those [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► people disperse I don't know if all the other things they dispersed to identify [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► themselves in such a nice convenient way so it may be difficult to like counting [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► RSS subscribers is different than counting all you can eat there is like [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► someone decided this was more than enough to put in their feet and when I [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► make something new on the site [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► their little feet thing becomes bold presuming they even look at their little [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► feet thing which is not you know like this four hundred thousand Google Reader [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► subscribers you know how many of them actually going to look at that feed in [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► maybe people have stopped using google reader on but Google Reader will keep [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► hitting their site right and counting them as a you know it's part of their [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► subscription I'm not sure I'd like I'm not sure how long they will do that for [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► him whether it's mothers do indefinitely so like maybe the numbers are any from [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► reading your site anymore or whether they like have some kind of timeout [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► period where they stopped counting you after a while of not looking at reader [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► I'm not really sure I like Twitter followers I mean how many human beings [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► who ever heard used within the last year and how many people are just people who [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► followed you and they joined Twitter for three days three years ago and you know [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► are not there anymore [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► web stats in viewership things are always kind of food do but Google Reader [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► at least gave some sort of unification to the budu in like you know you love it [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► summarizes it for you it's measured the same way as everybody's using it ninety [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► percent of your subscribers anyway so now we that that's going to become much [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► fuzzier even even if every single one of those people who was actually rehearse I [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► continues to how you to be able to detect them and track them and confirmed [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► yourself that's the case is probably going to be difficult so you're [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► begrudging [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► the disappearance of Google the all seen eye because it doesn't like to see [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► everything grudging I'm just as strange scenario is strange situation we found [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► ourselves I mean this is what happens when it when a company you know I mean [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► microsoft word to your company with some profitable business can use that profit [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► to subsidize other businesses that its speculating into MIT these may or may [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► not be things that we want to get into you know and I guess I think we will [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► never had any illusions RSS was going to do a hockey stick but it's like my house [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► worth worth keeping our eye on and we should buy everything up that has [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► anything to do with it so that we can some said it was Marcus david Turner [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► when we feel like it ended like now is the time of your life and you know it [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► was easy because they are you had all that web crawling infrastructure in [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► place that they could use so it was easier for them to do it then it would [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► be for anyone else to do it or not not so much like because that's that's where [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► the that's their muscle that's you know their companies built on we can put up [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► services on the internet that scale to any number of people including the [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► entire internet like our storage does and our whole business is built around [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► like we have we all section the company just works on infrastructure constantly [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► improving it and sort of it helps every service that we do that's why whenever [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► the bar start to like okay I don't care what you're doing before it's time to [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► get things we know what they were doing and even though our way seems crazy to [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► you let me tell you that you should rewrite travelgate indiscretion top of [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► our infrastructure which will delay your business for years and by the time [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► you're done maybe no monster product anymore but we're not gonna let you keep [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► running your crazy PHP Ruby thing here if we can help it because you really [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► need to get with the program and because our program is pretty damn good whereas [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► other random companies you know you're starting from scratch or even if you're [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► some other big companies like Microsoft is trying to get some days and expertise [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► and an apple and like they just none of those companies dedicated maybe Amazon [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► is the only other one that dedicates proportional to the same amount of [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► resources about we need to get our crap together service I because it's an [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► essential part of our business yeah I know we sell things but you know where [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► these me to come from well as you want to sell things better and hey that's a [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► marketable service yesterday and all those things and i think is the only [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► competitor who has the kind of expertise in scale and I think they're still much [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► more sort of slapped together evolved over a long period of time under [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► tremendous pressure with a crazy man with a weapon at their back versus sort [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► of Google's philosophical PHD's algorithmic strategy for indexing the [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► entire web anyway I don't know I mean that that kind of blew a lot of other [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► stuff that was being talked about me I guess we have a new pope and we now have [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► one less hard cast network but otherwise I don't know what's happening in the [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► world of technology market don't talk about South by Southwest come on my god [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► veteran of that are a number of tons of useful and insightful things to say I'm [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► so happy I didn't go this year before this or I think the year before that [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► that's a bold face lie cuz you're missing out on Salt Lake man I surprise [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► how are in the whole conference thing of it what it what a mess that is like it [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► first of all what that's worth talking briefly i think is Google i/o tickets [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► went on sale this morning and as usual sold out very very quickly and there are [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► lots of like I saw our friendship own complaining about duplicate transaction [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► logs that it did not sell out gracefully but it did so I quickly and and you know [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► we see with that we see with WBC selling out not that quickly but at least still [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► very quickly every year and there's an issue in question what do you really do [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► about that like what what can you do about that problem and because you don't [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► have any state tickets are gonna they're gonna come on sale and we don't know you [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► know it could be anytime between now and late May that they will probably make [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► tickets available for the immediacy of this year and we don't know and probably [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► gonna sell out within a half hour 45 minutes [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► Apple has tried different things you know different polarizations of like to [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► have these Tech Talks around around the country will become a mini WDC [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► country and you can get a ticket to those if you haven't gone to WTC [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► recently so this kind of a priority thing where if you get a lot out of one [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► you can go to the other but you know they they still have this problem of [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► there's just way more demand than there is supply of tickets and in you know [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► they can do the typical economic thing of just raised the price really high [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► because that would kind of make them look like dicks and that they would get [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► a lot of flak for that it would be worth it and like Google is making the problem [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► worse because Google i/o tickets it's becoming a pattern that Google gives [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► everyone free hardware at their devices that's usually worth about as much as [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► the ticket price looks like 900 bucks so like a lot of the people buying as [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► Google tickets are probably just wanting the free hardware and not really giving [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► a crap about the conference and so that's kinda like that i think is a [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► really bad thing for group for Google to be doing what they should probably stop [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► to think what what do you think Apple could do to reduce demand for WC or to [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► make it to make itself out less quickly or do you think the evening to solve [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► this problem is one thing they could do that like you talk about raising the [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► prices being seen as a dick move well this is also kind of a dick move but [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► it's one with economic precedent and its letter last as they can just do it [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► airlines doing over book and the reason I think this will work out with them is [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► that except for the keynote which I maybe maybe including keynote like you [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► see how the herd thins out as head start to come into effect and it's been far [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► even just like late in the day when people are just like going on fumes and [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► they just they just cant you know going in more I think you could probably over [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► any maybe this fire codes and stuff like that or whatever but that they're [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► limiting them but I think you could over book it and with the exception of a few [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► choke points [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► continue to be OK because really with the exception of like I know this [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► because I'm I'm there in every session like a crazy person you know [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► most people are not really things out it during certain points and so I feel like [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► they hit that's one way to get around the city somewhere tickets you know so [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► well as many tickets as he even if you think it's gonna be crazy that I don't [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► want to be like the classroom sizes are gonna be to join whenever I think it [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► will still work out because those rooms are not a capacity in the middle of the [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► week and some boring session as you know I don't know why I think you could [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► probably get maybe 20% more tickets sold that way not even more that somethin but [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► because I'm not saying this is gonna be a doubling in size is just over the [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► problem is that the the the popular or mainstream sessions really are filled up [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► to capacity and a lot of time and they do not have to wait on line for you know [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► twenty minutes or a half hour before the session starts and you get in there and [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► you can't even sit down and there's like only standing room of people backing up [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► in the back like 10 sessions like that and they duplicate them they're they're [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► addressing that was like the other one son on one day and then once I get two [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► days later whatever like this is all in service of not doing the things out by [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► Southwest Division I always keep going to bigger bigger venues like it that way [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► across the entire city right so you know you can't are just going to like even [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► bigger Convention Center in a different city and just get bigger and bigger but [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► can you can you get something out of the can you do something to improve things [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► keeping the same conference center and everything I think you can get a little [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► bit more about our booking and wonder you know this year maybe just some [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► paying attention but I don't think so I think this is actually happening this [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► year it seems like Apple pessimism is at an all-time high of just the company's [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► prospects that the effect of competition but rather the people who go to WWE see [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► right now [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► matter people who are selling popular apps in the App Store me da is probably [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► still pretty darn bullish about iOS in terms of money to make money in terms of [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► you know how much money do we put into this game and how much do we get out [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► keep making the games he say that but it's funny I would agree with you Marco [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► that I've had regular people who are not total dweeb like us come to me and say [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► yes [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► from getting iPhone again when I'm up for a new phone cuz haven't done [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► anything new in awhile yeah you know if your nerd you can say well what we [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► haven't done anything new but to a regular person I mean springboard looks [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► the same as always looked most of these apps mostly Liu Rui button is a UIButton [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► ey labels label all these things look the same table visa tableview granted [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► you have collection views now and haven't seen them use that much come to [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► think of it but it doesn't look flashy anymore and maybe Iowa 71 could do I i [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► dont know I completely agree I'm not saying is I think like you I wouldn't do [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► it the same be able to be like still like a rectangle the screen like us are [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► hovering above the desk by two inches like well there's there's there's [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► there's like the the people who write for The Verge who knows they're never [TS]

00:45:54 ◼   ► gonna be happy with whatever Apple does that go or actually the writers are good [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► the commenters on the verge are never going to be happy with whatever Apple [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► does its new because they're gonna complain no its not like Android [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► incentive enough in that segment they would they can't satisfy but like Casey [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► I have regular people asking me all the time or talking all the time about about [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► comments that make it sound like all this Apple skepticism in the media [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► actually reflects what they are thinking like it there is no question that [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► Apple's being significantly and severely affected by the attention in the media [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► that it gets and negatively I mean really I have regular people sit like [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► even a week ago I had somebody asked me how I think my getting an iPhone but I [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► heard the iPhone 5s is coming out next month so in a way like I here and every [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► day of course every iPhone but like what you hear like you know they didn't [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► change that much Michael have you seen the iPhone 5 believe me it's a big [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► difference the people I even giving it a shot because they're they're hearing in [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► the media and on the news on the website and everything they're hearing all the [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► stuff about Apple being doomed and not innovating enough I hear regular people [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► have asked me about Samsung for the first time ever in the last six months [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► I've never heard anybody else with Samsung in the last six months I'm now [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► hearing [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► and I think Apple's doing greed but the mainstream culture and the mainstream [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► and rhetoric around Apple is now that they're suffering and that's really [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► damaging them no question so I think there's only two things they could do to [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► to get the regular people ignoring the echo chamber people who don't even know [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► what the verges to get those people who still might come up there and change too [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► much what can you do to bring them home cuz I think like outside outside of the [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► tech nerd circles like there definitely is a medium that perception everything [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► better but like it when someone who doesn't even remember that Apple makes [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► the iPhone or just kind of big windows with the iPhone does when they get the [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► news story like I'm their local news or whatever that there are some problems [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► that's when I start to get this bad feelings what can you do to bring those [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► people out you can't do with new OS overall because no matter how crazy you [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► change springboard about how weird you make things look those people are never [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► going to know that's not how the phone always looked like they don't have [TS]

00:48:18 ◼   ► compared to that does not impress them that nothing you can get them he thereby [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► making a new product that gets people excited about Apple again [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► insert whatever product you on your television watched her board you know [TS]

00:48:32 ◼   ► self-driving car space ship anything like that automatically those people [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► like Apple's back at some crazy new thing blah blah blah suddenly the iPhone [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► seems viable again I wouldn't bank on that happening in the capital banking on [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► that happening to get themselves in the second thing I think what actually work [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► and they probably are going to be doing is just make it a big screen damage is [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► damage that sounds internet done that is has a big screen but done that like [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► before you aren't excited about it but now you now you are that is enough of a [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► change that a regular person has its bigger the regular programming notice [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► that change again not that I'm saying a big screen is not a good idea cuz I [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► think it is a good idea but I think that is the type of change [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► far beyond like a radical new UI or something like that that you put on the [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► phone which is much harder to do bigger screen I think can revitalize interest [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► in [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► in the iPhone biggest gainers lower-cost a combination of the two because I mean [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► Apple is behind the screen size wars and we talked about this last time of the [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► resolution of the stuff what they gonna do in that area but those are technical [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► details just bottom line is he someone you know when the Samsung s4 comes out [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► tomorrow whatever day it is going to be the new Galaxy phone its gonna have a [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► big amazing screen there's going to be bigger and more amazing her than the [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► iPhone 5 screen and regular people can see that they look at the iPhone 5 they [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► look at that on the phone and this label that's that's more and more of what they [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► want it looks better looks like Android phones that you know the big thing now [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► is it you know [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► native 1080p 120 like four hundred and sixty dpi or something [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► these are fairly amazing screens they're still pretty ninth in and yes they're [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► much bigger and heavier but like that's what I was up against here I think to [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► revitalize interest in its phone line in particular it's going to have to answer [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► to that and I think that's pretty much all take to get people the ball back [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► rolling on that and then their longer-term problem is you know what's [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► that I speak thing and I kinda figured that out there can do with TVs or [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► watches are however Karzai whatever that's a wonder I wonder a little bit if [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► some of this problem is self created in the sense that you know john even [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► talking for a long time about how poor Apple is at services and if you think [TS]

00:50:54 ◼   ► about it you know well as Siri was a brand new thing and it was supposed to [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► be amazing and it was supposed to cure all of our problems and it ended up [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► being fraught with problems and it was kind of a disaster but I think I was [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► successful in terms of getting people interested in its that phone you can [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► talk even to people bought it [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► talk to it on the first day played with it and then stopped using it because [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► it's quite alright I it has served its purpose that point I think people come [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► out of it with a generally positive like it's a positive experience I heard this [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► is fun you can talk to I bought this phone you can talk to me my friends at [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► all areas two days talking to it now I don't use anymore but I'm not sore about [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► it like I think basically I think syria with a net positive for the iOS platform [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► in the iPhone in general [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► but but it started positive it may or may not have been deposited yet Apple [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► maps which nobody nobody I mean obviously as nerds we understand kind of [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► the political motivations behind all this but for a regular human you didn't [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► want it in the first place [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► suddenly your phone which you previously loved one of the critical aspects of [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► this phone now socks and you didn't even ask for it and that's why you know I was [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► 6 adoption from most reports I've looked at david smith's in awhile but you know [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► I was 6 adoption was terrible and so the Google Maps app came out well [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► negative perception certainly in a lot of people holding back but in the grand [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► scheme of things it was it was minimal and it hurt them PR was way more than [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► hurt I was 6 adoption rates I think this is another example of like the positive [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► a Syrian and eventually like it's like man you leave it and this was an initial [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► negative but I think the same phenomena happened in initial negative instead of [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► initial positive but eventually it's like like and now I think by people [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► buying phones like its transition that hurts its transition you know like you [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► know or helps you in the history of the transition to series like wow amazing [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► thing and this helped Apple get people into stores cause people to buy it and [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► then it was fun [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► the transition from you know that a bad thing suddenly this isn't a bad thing [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► and maps are bad and they're going from the maps that were better to the bad [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► ones are just I'm getting bad ones but that trickled off to an anyone buying a [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► phone now you know even though that Apple maps are still not as good as [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► Google Maps is kind of like oh this is just the maps my phone came with and if [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► I don't like them I can try the Google one and you know what's the big deal [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► right so I think maybe those two things cancel each other out but I think going [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► forward neither one of them are a factor except for maybe reputation whisenand [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► nerds I I think like they've they've cleared they cleared the PR disaster [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► maps and Iran to like now that you know we got to see what the next thing is are [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► we gonna have something that's going to be a big negative a big positive they [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► need something for the next phone other than just like it's faster slightly but [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► I know I'm not really sure that anything to do with the next iPhone although I do [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► agree that they need to make screen bigger for at least one of the models [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► are they so [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► just excited to see you know I'm not I'm not entirely sold on the cheaper one [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► idea although we should talk about two and a half you saw so I've been talking [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► about the the the weird new CPU and the Apple TV that was just released updated [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► quietly and shippers has post here up it into our chat thing so that you can see [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► it had a post up that they've been taking apart the CPU and it and they [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► found to my original theory we should talk about it I believe in episode one [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► of the show my original theory was that what you know is originally we thought [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► that they were died shrinking the 85 acts and there's really no good reason [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► for the Apple TV is a need in a five acts yet maybe if they have future model [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► that can do high end games maybe then ok but there was really no good reason for [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► 10 if I backs we later found out a couple days ago we found out that it is [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► indeed not an A five experts it's an A five that is somehow a lot smaller than [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► the normally five package show again we speculated ok to die shrink so what we [TS]

00:55:00 ◼   ► gonna do with the new 85 cause the Apple TV doesn't have an Apple TVs to justify [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► making a whole separate processor for it so now the the most recent news that we [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► have is that the processor and new Apple TV is indeed still in a five is [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► substantially smaller than the regular a five but the reason why is his only has [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► one CPU core instead of two it's still the same process the believe it's a 32 [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► nanometer process from Samsung so it still has a manufacturing process just [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► now is only one coroner chip now before with the Apple TV I believe didn't we [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► say they were they were like burning out one course whether it failed by just [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► perfect sense because by the by the time they've been manufacturing do crossword [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► for a five social long time the number of ones that are bomb that have one bad [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► karma them down now has got to be pretty darn low I mean I guess the question of [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► like where they just you know it's inefficient use of the ones that weren't [TS]

00:56:02 ◼   ► where one car doesn't work rather they are they literally taking them in and [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► and you know burning the fuse is out on the one on one of the course if it was [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► the case that they were trying to get things that one court didn't work [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► presumably the number of those has dwindled now because they really you [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► know they've been making the ship forever so many more like leftovers for [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► it but given how few Apple TVs they sell it would probably still be cheaper to [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► just give him dual core working chips than it would be to make a separate I'm [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► looking at this was the whole reason why the AppleTV CPU changes interesting is [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► the theory that they make so few of these it doesn't justify a custom CPU so [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► therefore whatever CPU they're using in this is probably gonna be put into a [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► future more popular product and so that's that's I think we're considering [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► like what could they make with a small single core a five and that to me [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► screams low-end iPhone or low and iPad Mini I suppose it's possible it's really [TS]

00:57:05 ◼   ► tough to tell because it's not it's not Herculean effort to and they have been [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► so Mr Apple TV soap making you sing of Corey five just for the Apple tea is not [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► is not crazy crazy they really have been increasing number of these things that [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► they sell and especially if they're whatever they're crazy Grand TV plan it [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► keeps getting pushed off into the future for you know presumably content related [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► reasons that there may be just playing for the future of the Apple TV and [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► unlike the other things that run apps and stuff there's no real reason that [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► year after year the Apple TV has to get tremendously faster or they finally got [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► up to 1080p like what more does it need to do like it shows video in 1080p you [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► can't run apps on it it could be there selling in for the long winter waiting [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► for whatever the heck you know and they want to continue to you know have sixty [TS]

00:57:54 ◼   ► percent year-over-year growth on the Apple TV or whatever they were happy for [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► their selling a not insignificant number these things maybe now it deserves its [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► own chip not a big deal chip just a single for a five single Corey 544 a [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► cheaper phone I'm wondering how much cheaper does that make it because the [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► cost of a single core fibers dual [TS]

00:58:14 ◼   ► comes down to the area of the check out and like the big cost components in that [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► things like I have to imagine like the screen the battery the CPU GPU and the [TS]

00:58:25 ◼   ► case are your big cost components there I'm not sure how much shaving a tiny [TS]

00:58:29 ◼   ► little bit of cost on the CPU is gonna lie is not going to get you over the [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► line in terms of low-cost [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► I'm not sure I'm not alone but you know if you can shave X percent off of a lot [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► of the key components then that I was gonna say in aggregate in my piano it's [TS]

00:58:46 ◼   ► conceivable I mean like do we think that the single-core if I was sure other than [TS]

00:58:54 ◼   ► a low-cost phone I mean motion is not multithreaded so we can kind of look and [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► see a torrid pace for animation is multithreaded ok but most of the things [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► that are releasing that absurd doing for the most part I think we'd be fine with [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► single core for a low end product I think if you look at you know if they're [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► trying to shave off dollars and cents here to try to get down to lower price [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► points for surviving the iPad Mini is probably the more obvious choice here [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► than an iPhone just because the iPhones are still subsidized in most markets so [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► they have more room to play with their wares the iPad Mini it they want to get [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► that down she ended a five is probably even with this with the smaller version [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► I would imagine a five is probably still too much power [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► GB using something like a watch I I don't think that would work but I think [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► it will be fine as a low-end model 44 even the iPhone or the iPad I'll see you [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► think like the iPad Mini I have problems here too because like again I think of [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► you know if they want to push you want to push to have any price down to give [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► an even lower price one where are they going to get where else they gonna pull [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► value out of that cheaper cameras slightly cheaper CPU they can't really [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► give it less battery they can't rely on the contrary if they only have one CPU [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► core they can give it a little bit better [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► like I have I have it easier time thinking that you could shave down a [TS]

01:00:32 ◼   ► phone because it's it's subsidized that you know that you could you could work [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► it out so that it ends up looking way cheaper to the customer you just have a [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► little bit of cost maybe martin slow I'm not sure how much you can squeeze the [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► many with a single Corey 5 it and I'm also not sure that I've never wants to [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► take any of its products and go backwards in terms of performance you [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► know so can I prove those two alternate theories one of which i think is [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► ridiculous and other i think is marginally ridiculous 24 interrupt you [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► that's probably true so one of the means what if the whole point of this and and [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► one of you guys just inferred it a second ago what is the point of this [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► this chip is physically smaller Zanotti so the whole point was one of the whole [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► point was either to increase battery volume in the same size case or [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► alternatively what if we are finally getting our iPhone Nano that we've we [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► used to talk about constantly and then gave up on if you really want to space [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► back to you you just ranked 29 metres or get in till 2022 space back that's the [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► way to do it you don't get your car and stick the 32 like it if space but you [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► know I'm more inclined to believe the cost is the reason that you take a 32 [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► nanometer process that you already have your manufacturers are now have a lot of [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► experience with really good yields not pushing the limits of technology to give [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► me one of the little bit cheaper but if you run into space back if you want to [TS]

01:02:02 ◼   ► drive by 49 or something you did you get this much easier to get that space but [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► going through a process I mean this [TS]

01:02:09 ◼   ► 20 nanometers seems like it's in the cards for 2013 for Apple products from [TS]

01:02:14 ◼   ► you know Taiwan Semiconductor or whoever they gonna do that and if the Intel [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► things come through maybe that's not going to happen this year maybe next [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► year but if that isn't just a pipe dream but I think that's the way it space back [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► will you see that that's the easiest way to get space back but it's also more [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► expensive way to get space back is not right but it's a it's an expensive [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► anyway like it's not like you're gonna stick it there [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► forever like that the train is going along and like this is the year that [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► were Apple all the other phone manufacturers are already at 28 or lower [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► the Android big Android guys already have phones that you know I have 20 [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► nanometers quad-core things with 1080p screens on them like they're they're [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► outclassing Apple hardware in all respects with the exception of power [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► consumption but they make up for it by having a bigger battery because they [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► have bigger screens right so you know it it's gonna happen anyway Apple's gonna [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► have to make the transition if you gonna do that you wait to put out your iPhone [TS]

01:03:06 ◼   ► Nano until all your components shrink down and I believe also like shrinking [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► we always talk about the CPUs and GPUs as well and whatever other components [TS]

01:03:17 ◼   ► inside there not many but there are other ones and some of them I think [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► Anandtech had a good article about the the process used for the cell radios [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► which are limited by their various analog things that go into them but [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► those could stand to be mean that's what you know the first LTE chipsets were not [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► great and sucked up a lot of battery there are other places where you can get [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► some savings by shrinks or just you know even if you had a 20 nanometers CPU of [TS]

01:03:40 ◼   ► all the rest of your chips are family like 45 are 65 or some crazy size that [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► can make you said as well so there's no bring bring all the internal components [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► of your mobile thing along on a train of continual process shrinks I think you [TS]

01:03:56 ◼   ► can get to your iPhone Nano with that technique and that's this may be the [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► only way you can get there because otherwise if you just take the internal [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► exile like there's a lot of room left over in the iPhone 5 as it is and just [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► shrinking the screen is not going to have any that's going to hurt you if [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► you're in for a battery in there so I'm not sure the iPhone that it was a [TS]

01:04:15 ◼   ► concept really makes much sense and if it does I think they'll get there by [TS]

01:04:20 ◼   ► shrinking not by chopping of course thing to like just demand might not [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► really be there for that I mean people want their smartphone screens to be big [TS]

01:04:28 ◼   ► and I think I think the any Apple will very well address the marketing people [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► who want to keep it smart phones small with the regular sized iPhone and and I [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► really don't think they're gonna go big only in the product line but I don't [TS]

01:04:45 ◼   ► think they have to go smaller than the iPhone 5 size really I think they might [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► go [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► a big only I cannot see the iPhone sex having a larger screen than the five and [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► then not offering a small one except for spy still selling the iPhone 5s well the [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► only reason they could the only way they could do that I think would be if the [TS]

01:05:04 ◼   ► screen was bigger but not like a ton bigger and I'm not expecting that make [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► phablet will but but the problem is if they don't really make a substantial [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► jump that it's not gonna really served him very well in the reasons why they [TS]

01:05:19 ◼   ► should be the big screen in the first place it's not gonna really stand up [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► well in a store next to these giant Android phones it's not gonna [TS]

01:05:25 ◼   ► potentially replace the need for an iPad for some people are at least they they [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► would think that they would buy that it would stand up better in the store just [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► a little bit bigger I mean is the question we talked about last week it's [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► like you just make it bigger the same res which is what we also I believe that [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► we completely adequate to give them the boost they need of having something [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► bigger or do you bite the bullet and actually you know whether it's 1080p or [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► pick a new canonical Rezko's about the Hindu konaga residents with the iPad I [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► guarantee you'll do it again sometime in the history of iOS you know before the [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► company goes out of business and heat death of the universe there will be new [TS]

01:06:01 ◼   ► resolution besides you know 1024 by 768 points and 15 phone is a need to do with [TS]

01:06:07 ◼   ► the iPhone 5 as well like that will happen is just a question of when the [TS]

01:06:11 ◼   ► question now is it too soon they just went off on it too soon to that the way [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► generation to pump it out again but that's going to happen and I i could see [TS]

01:06:20 ◼   ► them doing that sooner rather than later if they start feeling the pinch ya but [TS]

01:06:25 ◼   ► if they only make one size iPhone then like a magic pill made one size laptop [TS]

01:06:30 ◼   ► like what size would that be probably 13 right and then then you'll do you miss [TS]

01:06:35 ◼   ► out on the great value of the 15 in the 1100 if you look at the phones like if [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► they're gonna keep having just one model for the foreseeable future after make [TS]

01:06:45 ◼   ► the next one bigger say then they're missing out on all the greatness in [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► product design all the sales all the goodwill that would come from the people [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► who would want the smaller phones [TS]

01:06:56 ◼   ► 25 we have now compared to other big funds at least and people who would want [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► even bigger phones like 20 phablets [TS]

01:07:03 ◼   ► its I think ultimately as this market matures which I think it's pretty safe [TS]

01:07:08 ◼   ► to say the smartphone market is premature at this point I think they [TS]

01:07:13 ◼   ► have to go to multiple sizes I was I was on my 2013 to-do list you know putting [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► on diversified the iPhone line and that means not just keep selling the old one [TS]

01:07:22 ◼   ► as well as your different size so yeah like the reason I say that is not [TS]

01:07:27 ◼   ► inconceivable that because that's what happens I'm over so long there is one [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► iPhone and there's the older iPhones the older iPhone still our needs and what [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► I've been saying they need to do with diversified line by not doing that by [TS]

01:07:36 ◼   ► having you know there's actually not a one iPhone there's actually two iPhones [TS]

01:07:40 ◼   ► and possibly some older one and what if what if they're single Corey five is how [TS]

01:07:44 ◼   ► they do that you know you can combine them both and say I where diversifying [TS]

01:07:49 ◼   ► the line we're getting a bigger screen and the way we're diversifying is that [TS]

01:07:52 ◼   ► the one with the small screen cheap on exactly which would disappoint the [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► people who want a smartphone its full performance with a should feel the same [TS]

01:07:58 ◼   ► pain that iPod Touch users have had to feel we just want all the good things [TS]

01:08:02 ◼   ► but you can never get all the good things so that they have so many options [TS]

01:08:07 ◼   ► for how they can diversify their line with the just wanna do inside there also [TS]

01:08:10 ◼   ► are trying to do it on cost them in how they come out with three of them I can [TS]

01:08:14 ◼   ► go right from having one phone to having three funds like it it's conceivable all [TS]

01:08:18 ◼   ► these things are possible I don't know which one of them it's hard to read what [TS]

01:08:22 ◼   ► they think the issue is we all think they need a bigger screen does Apple [TS]

01:08:26 ◼   ► believe that I think at this point probably do some of us think they can [TS]

01:08:31 ◼   ► benefit from a lower cost one that I can imagine the bean counters Apple going [TS]

01:08:34 ◼   ► you know it actually that's something that you as a customer but actually we [TS]

01:08:38 ◼   ► boris for Apple as a business or not gonna do that you know I have a hard [TS]

01:08:42 ◼   ► time seeing into that calculus so to take this sort of kind of full circle [TS]

01:08:49 ◼   ► does that mean that in order to continue to what was the Steve Jobs -ism like to [TS]

01:08:56 ◼   ► know [TS]

01:08:56 ◼   ► delight and amaze our customers whatever was in order to keep people talk about [TS]

01:09:01 ◼   ► the iPhone is one really mean what I really mean do they not do a 5s this [TS]

01:09:05 ◼   ► this year do they instead do either a six or do they do a 5s and a iPhone plus [TS]

01:09:12 ◼   ► whatever you guys called it [TS]

01:09:13 ◼   ► is that enough to get something non ex on something unexpected enough to get [TS]

01:09:19 ◼   ► people talking positively about the iPhone again that's a timing issue I [TS]

01:09:23 ◼   ► think like if they could they definitely would like to say that right now like if [TS]

01:09:27 ◼   ► they if they had planned enough in advance and for seeing this like they [TS]

01:09:33 ◼   ► would definitely do that like maybe like maybe that you know I just don't think [TS]

01:09:37 ◼   ► that the current situation they find themselves in they planned on 23 years [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► out and that's the kind of planning you have to have to have to say we're going [TS]

01:09:46 ◼   ► to go from you know this 404 s 55 s cadens actually we're not going to do [TS]

01:09:49 ◼   ► that with the five were gonna do for for us I'm gonna do 596 start planning now [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► cuz they had they would have to start playing it very long time ago I think [TS]

01:09:57 ◼   ► they would really benefit from that but they didn't start playing 23 years ago I [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► don't think big they're capable I think like they just got a ship what they have [TS]

01:10:05 ◼   ► which is going to be a 5s [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► gone and we don't know like the problem is where we have incomplete information [TS]

01:10:12 ◼   ► so we don't know all the hard stuff like whatever whatever the heck else they're [TS]

01:10:16 ◼   ► doing this not a phone is not an iPad presumably there's something for several [TS]

01:10:21 ◼   ► things on various burners in various states of whatever any of those things [TS]

01:10:24 ◼   ► if they come to a boil [TS]

01:10:26 ◼   ► you know make this much less of an issue we got the 5s but we also got that Apple [TS]

01:10:32 ◼   ► hover car no one cares that it's free in five [TS]

01:10:34 ◼   ► like whatever crazy other things whether it's watches or TV stuff for you know [TS]

01:10:40 ◼   ► new services are they buy some other company like so many other things can [TS]

01:10:45 ◼   ► not make this an issue but if there's nothing new for this entire year and [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► they just have the 5s and make all their products better in the way that we [TS]

01:10:53 ◼   ► always expected to make things better I think that will not be a great year for [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► Apple in terms of their perception in the industry although I would argue that [TS]

01:11:04 ◼   ► they have liked grover talks a lot about the concept of momentum and I would [TS]

01:11:12 ◼   ► argue right now russian reaction yet that Apple has so much negative [TS]

01:11:18 ◼   ► momentum attraction and the press or and people's perceptions of how they're [TS]

01:11:22 ◼   ► doing they have so much negativity around them right now and and skepticism [TS]

01:11:28 ◼   ► and doubt that I don't think anything they released this year is going to fix [TS]

01:11:32 ◼   ► that I don't think it can be fixed they can release a flying unicorn watch [TS]

01:11:36 ◼   ► toaster tomorrow and and it wouldn't change anybody's mind everyone if they [TS]

01:11:42 ◼   ► released some new product that was actually good to actually be good that [TS]

01:11:48 ◼   ► would that would turn it around the only product they will come out of the year [TS]

01:11:51 ◼   ► and it would just be like a bomb but the only product that they've released in [TS]

01:11:55 ◼   ► recent memory that everyone thought was good from the start was the iPhone and [TS]

01:11:58 ◼   ► I'm not ever gonna nothings gonna stop in like net net coming out of it in the [TS]

01:12:02 ◼   ► same naysayers that everybody having an iPad had them the iPhone is probably [TS]

01:12:06 ◼   ► have the most positive reception but even that had like oil tonight sporadic [TS]

01:12:09 ◼   ► but you're not gonna be a phone maker me you know you're not going to just walk [TS]

01:12:13 ◼   ► in like everything's got the negative it doesn't matter like the net out of that [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► was exciting new thing Apple's exciting doing exciting new thing that's risky [TS]

01:12:21 ◼   ► and interesting and i wanna know what's going on with it right whereas just keep [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► making better Max and better iPads and iPhones year after year some which are [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► you know are not as interesting as like the best phones from best Android phones [TS]

01:12:37 ◼   ► that's that's boring and the worst thing I want to be as boring I mean you know [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► if you even if they come with the watch and everyone says it's piece of crap [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► that's more exciting than not coming out with a lot right and the net at the end [TS]

01:12:50 ◼   ► of the year I think would be positive from that position like everyone hates [TS]

01:12:53 ◼   ► it but who knows it's kind of crazy and it's got this one interesting thing that [TS]

01:12:56 ◼   ► we didn't think of it you know [TS]

01:12:58 ◼   ► uncertainty and excitement is more interesting than just boring iteration [TS]

01:13:02 ◼   ► of the same things although I don't understand the finance industry like it [TS]

01:13:05 ◼   ► when they want during iteration when they want a gigantic machine that turns [TS]

01:13:08 ◼   ► out money but I guess they want explosive growth so they were looking [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► for the next hockey stick graph and the grass for the phones and I pattern on [TS]

01:13:15 ◼   ► hockey sticky enough for them [TS]

01:13:20 ◼   ► horses grab some may seem to like their stuff but forgot Pendergraph that should [TS]

01:13:27 ◼   ► be like wow small smiles looking at growth curve it's great and apples [TS]

01:13:30 ◼   ► dominate the tablet industry and you know this great things and the story is [TS]

01:13:34 ◼   ► still Android tablets to surpass iPads next year which may actually be true but [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► it's like you know they have two great products and hockey stick trajectories [TS]

01:13:43 ◼   ► that the phone and iPad and that's not enough was not enough writers it used [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► those things you look more attractive when they had like no competitors and [TS]

01:13:52 ◼   ► going back to acacia said earlier this is Ben as we discussed last episode this [TS]

01:13:57 ◼   ► is like a draft blog post my head for weeks and I just haven't written out but [TS]

01:14:01 ◼   ► not all over it for you guys here I feel like Apple's next big product you know [TS]

01:14:07 ◼   ► all the press and maybe the public they wanted to be some gadget they say oh I [TS]

01:14:12 ◼   ► wanted to be a watch or I want a toaster or I want to have a car that's not a [TS]

01:14:19 ◼   ► gadget gadget he its people who want her cars are probably people who wants my [TS]

01:14:23 ◼   ► watch is also so everyone has to be some kind of hardware gadget a TV set to be [TS]

01:14:28 ◼   ► the problem is boring product ever you know they all these things and there was [TS]

01:14:34 ◼   ► there is also speaking of grouper good discussion of this on talk show with a [TS]

01:14:38 ◼   ► guy English and grammar last week but I think Apple's next big product shouldn't [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► be any of those things it should be dramatically improving their services [TS]

01:14:50 ◼   ► and their software in that order and and i know i mean I know it's not going to [TS]

01:14:56 ◼   ► happen [TS]

01:14:57 ◼   ► and it would make anybody except users and nerds happy you know it's not flashy [TS]

01:15:03 ◼   ► it's not very newsworthy most of the time like it's not gonna it's not going [TS]

01:15:08 ◼   ► to fix their perception but what their products need the most is significant [TS]

01:15:15 ◼   ► substantial progress in services and quality of software and that I would [TS]

01:15:22 ◼   ► much rather they take what they already have what they've already started all [TS]

01:15:28 ◼   ► these different things they have going on these platforms just make them really [TS]

01:15:32 ◼   ► great make the services better and improve the quality of the software I [TS]

01:15:37 ◼   ► would much rather have that much we know that but but you're right that the [TS]

01:15:44 ◼   ► market does not demand that even though the markets better off with that but the [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► gadget they would see it it's like a shark stop moving my god they're [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► retrenching and in some respects the Apple as like they're a little tiny bit [TS]

01:16:00 ◼   ► them if they don't think they recognize this from a technical perspective at [TS]

01:16:03 ◼   ► least expect the perspective that's what the maps thing was about its like the [TS]

01:16:08 ◼   ► future the future is more of this network in active service things not [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► less we need to take control of this we need to take the reins and you know they [TS]

01:16:15 ◼   ► screwed up read maps but at least they recognize that is not a tenable [TS]

01:16:19 ◼   ► long-term strategy to rely on your your most bitter rival for an essential [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► service that your phone provides so you know we all understand why they added [TS]

01:16:28 ◼   ► him at least this some recognition that they realized that speech recognition [TS]

01:16:32 ◼   ► could be another similar issue with them not really knowing that technology but [TS]

01:16:36 ◼   ► if they if they if they woke up one day and fully realized how screwed they are [TS]

01:16:43 ◼   ► on their inability to network services and how and how important they're going [TS]

01:16:47 ◼   ► to be in the future they would have to sign themselves up for a multi-year sort [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► of dark period of getting you know figuring that stuff out kind of like the [TS]

01:16:57 ◼   ► multi-year dark period coming out of the nineties where they had the whole crappy [TS]

01:17:00 ◼   ► oster they had to read [TS]

01:17:02 ◼   ► and they had to keep the company in business and then start work on the next [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► big thing and they did you know they came out of it and when gangbusters [TS]

01:17:08 ◼   ► right they probably need another period like that to get their house in order on [TS]

01:17:16 ◼   ► the server side stuff because it's not like we're in a future where that [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► service I stuff is going to be less important you know there's no going back [TS]

01:17:23 ◼   ► and so these need to get really good at it or get really chummy with someone [TS]

01:17:27 ◼   ► whose interests are aligned with theirs who is good at it and that used to be [TS]

01:17:30 ◼   ► cool but it's not anymore so you know i mean all these reasons are like people [TS]

01:17:34 ◼   ► keep saying that was getting slammed for illogical reasons or like oh they making [TS]

01:17:39 ◼   ► all this money hand over fist walter is crazy and some respects the like the [TS]

01:17:44 ◼   ► negativity that that is reflected in the the press about them is like cumulation [TS]

01:17:52 ◼   ► of all the negative things that I had been thinking about Apple had like the [TS]

01:17:55 ◼   ► past 10 years but at the time I was thinking no one else agree with them [TS]

01:17:59 ◼   ► like Apple going gangbusters everybody loves it all our products are great and [TS]

01:18:02 ◼   ► you be like but but service i'd this may be like what are you talking about their [TS]

01:18:05 ◼   ► stuff you know and now it's kind of all coming home to roost and maybe maybe [TS]

01:18:10 ◼   ► that's his projection maybe they're they're being negative numbers but I [TS]

01:18:13 ◼   ► don't think the current negative view of Apple is that crazy I mean it's kind of [TS]

01:18:18 ◼   ► crazy and term I don't know the details of the finances of evidence like you see [TS]

01:18:22 ◼   ► they're making tons of money like they're not going out of business [TS]

01:18:24 ◼   ► they're successful company that will run they have lots of people like all things [TS]

01:18:27 ◼   ► girly post again and again but the same time I see where all their strategic [TS]

01:18:31 ◼   ► weaknesses are and I see that it's not like you can snap your fingers and make [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► the strategic weaknesses go away and even making an apple new new Apple TV or [TS]

01:18:38 ◼   ► a watch does not make all those weaknesses go away just staves off the [TS]

01:18:42 ◼   ► inevitable for a little bit longer in fact a new gadget or a new platform [TS]

01:18:46 ◼   ► would probably make a lot of these problems worse because here's here's [TS]

01:18:53 ◼   ► more things that require software and services they're having trouble keeping [TS]

01:18:57 ◼   ► up with i mean like they're presumably they're they're reaping the benefits to [TS]

01:19:01 ◼   ► go groups is like okay well we do have a new TV thing presumably you know it's [TS]

01:19:07 ◼   ► based on iOS and we can leverage the App Store and we can leverage I club like [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► summary there they are getting a common core of stuff that they work on [TS]

01:19:13 ◼   ► that makes all their products better it's not like you know they're going to [TS]

01:19:16 ◼   ► go out and make something totally unrelated where they can use any of [TS]

01:19:19 ◼   ► their tech or platform so it's a marginal increase but I like the thing [TS]

01:19:23 ◼   ► that makes us feel bad about us like is like a distraction I could you just get [TS]

01:19:27 ◼   ► the crap that you have now to work right like stop watch stuff like you just you [TS]

01:19:31 ◼   ► take it you don't we have this crazy perception that probably isn't rooted in [TS]

01:19:34 ◼   ► reality of them taken off their triple-a players and putting them on whatever the [TS]

01:19:39 ◼   ► bigger projects like the best most awesome iPhone people and put them on [TS]

01:19:43 ◼   ► the upper watch right and like now like you don't put those guys off we need [TS]

01:19:47 ◼   ► good people like we felt like we had like that when they you know seemingly [TS]

01:19:51 ◼   ► pulled like the big good awesome important people off Pakistan for a [TS]

01:19:54 ◼   ► while to be all hands on deck with the you know I S in the App Store just the [TS]

01:19:58 ◼   ► right business decision but like they have finite resources and we don't want [TS]

01:20:02 ◼   ► them to be there was nothing on the talk show episode we don't want them to be [TS]

01:20:05 ◼   ► spread too thin like they don't have an infinite number of Awesometown to people [TS]

01:20:09 ◼   ► and with with the financials and the share price and everything going down it [TS]

01:20:14 ◼   ► may be harder to acquire and retain those amazing people so maybe you don't [TS]

01:20:19 ◼   ► have somebody to spread around is used to mean it's that's a major problem for [TS]

01:20:24 ◼   ► them is the size of the company is talent wise it's more than it needs to [TS]

01:20:30 ◼   ► be they have very limited resources they are taking a look at these things and [TS]

01:20:34 ◼   ► you're right that the business case for pulling a snow leopard Snow Leopard they [TS]

01:20:40 ◼   ► basically spent what was at eighteen months development of it not adding a [TS]

01:20:46 ◼   ► lot of user physical features you know the whole the whole message of snow [TS]

01:20:49 ◼   ► leopard was gonna rebuild a lot of the foundation of this ad things you know [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► really important foundational API's like Grand Central Dispatch gonna really make [TS]

01:20:58 ◼   ► the foundation better and awesome and fix a lot of bugs rather than adding a [TS]

01:21:02 ◼   ► whole bunch of new user facing features and mountain lion was kind of like that [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► you know compared to Lyon but I i feel like they need to have something need to [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► have a period like that for the for services and for all there's hope you [TS]

01:21:17 ◼   ► like a company-wide period of like two years improving the stuff we have but [TS]

01:21:23 ◼   ► you're right that business wise and market wise [TS]

01:21:26 ◼   ► that will never be a smart idea to do well they could afford to do it on the [TS]

01:21:31 ◼   ► Mac because all eyes were on iOS that's true so that's one that's one reprieve I [TS]

01:21:35 ◼   ► mean there's no excuse for the services because like like I guess you're never [TS]

01:21:42 ◼   ► gonna be all I clogs that's the nature of services is like an underpinning [TS]

01:21:44 ◼   ► infrastructure but if they know that their game Jersey third platform but if [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► they if they did I will be off Iowa's briefly and then those guys could do you [TS]

01:21:54 ◼   ► know Iowa State which will be there Snow Leopard or whatever right but thats I [TS]

01:21:58 ◼   ► don't think that's going to happen two platforms is plenty for them they're [TS]

01:22:03 ◼   ► much more likely to me maybe they get away with it and I'm like you know the [TS]

01:22:08 ◼   ► watch your TV or some other thing where it gets its own Fork of the OS is still [TS]

01:22:12 ◼   ► iOS based or whatever and then you have time to sort of you know ten down the [TS]

01:22:18 ◼   ► finalists but I don't think service is a much more dire than than the OS think [TS]

01:22:23 ◼   ► they're on a pretty good track with the OS revisions I think there are ready and [TS]

01:22:28 ◼   ► refinement mode on iOS yeah there's a couple of major things they need to add [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► here and there but the service is a really big deal just because it's not [TS]

01:22:37 ◼   ► something you do by snapping your fingers in like there they can have a [TS]

01:22:40 ◼   ► snow leopard release of services to cure their problems that's it's much it's a [TS]

01:22:43 ◼   ► problem that can't be fixed in 12 to 18 months exactly and it requires a lot of [TS]

01:22:47 ◼   ► substantial changes stansel investments in infrastructure and talented does that [TS]

01:22:53 ◼   ► and you know really really big shift and big investments that just take a long [TS]

01:22:58 ◼   ► time even if they were a hundred percent prioritize on that right now right this [TS]

01:23:02 ◼   ► second that just takes a long time to build up so if they want to do that fast [TS]

01:23:06 ◼   ► here's my advice to them by Facebook shut down use the talent to have enough [TS]

01:23:12 ◼   ► money to buy facebook probably not might be closed her big investment to remove [TS]

01:23:17 ◼   ► facebook from the earth which is it a general good take all those people [TS]

01:23:23 ◼   ► mostly gonna leave and go off and do other things but enough of them will [TS]

01:23:26 ◼   ► stay then they know how to do it like they're not Google caliber people but [TS]

01:23:31 ◼   ► they know how to run a service that people use that has better reliability [TS]

01:23:35 ◼   ► of an iPod right so yeah that's why I would've [TS]

01:23:40 ◼   ► think like it they would have bought Twitter me now I don't think it would [TS]

01:23:44 ◼   ► sell at a price they tried rightfully if they would have bought Twitter they [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► would have had a lot of that type of town a lot of experience and [TS]

01:23:51 ◼   ► infrastructure I'm not but but not you know certainly probably better than [TS]

01:23:57 ◼   ► whatever happens doing now [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► mean isn't a lot of iCloud still outsourced to Microsoft as your and I [TS]

01:24:04 ◼   ► was gonna say exactly that I don't think microsoft is terribly capable as a host [TS]

01:24:09 ◼   ► on like Amazon whom has become very capable as a host but I wonder and I was [TS]

01:24:15 ◼   ► going to ask you guys and so you brought it up I wonder if Apple and Microsoft [TS]

01:24:19 ◼   ► could find a common enemy in Google and perhaps the two of them could from [TS]

01:24:23 ◼   ► belong together in order to improve their services to the point that they're [TS]

01:24:27 ◼   ► actually that's kind of what they're doing isn't it like you have to wait for [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► Microsoft to be much to a fallen much even lower than it has now for them to [TS]

01:24:38 ◼   ► ever because Microsoft is in the same situation as Apple kind of where they [TS]

01:24:42 ◼   ► both recognize that Google does that server side stuff better just a [TS]

01:24:45 ◼   ► Microsoft has been in typical Microsoft fashion and much more sort of head down [TS]

01:24:51 ◼   ► ok this is an area where we are not strong working in true hire you know the [TS]

01:24:55 ◼   ► guy who did Lotus Notes and we're gonna or revamp our entire service site [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► architecture to be serious about this and like Apple hasn't done all that are [TS]

01:25:02 ◼   ► these not as publicly who knows what they're doing internally but it's [TS]

01:25:05 ◼   ► clearly not a top line item you know so I don't see Microsoft as a big win for [TS]

01:25:14 ◼   ► Apple to cooperate in this regard and I also don't see Microsoft ever stooping [TS]

01:25:18 ◼   ► to that level and say we're just gonna be your help in the battle against [TS]

01:25:21 ◼   ► Microsoft Google and Microsoft still wants to be a big player even though we [TS]

01:25:26 ◼   ► all kind of recognize that it's not going to be well everyone except [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► Microsoft [TS]