00:00:02 ◼ ► Not really we have a little bit of follow up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2">TS</a>]
00:00:03 ◼ ► and then honestly I have no clue what the Russian show's going to bring So it's going to be a little wild lacky wild [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3">TS</a>]
00:00:14 ◼ ► So we should probably do some follow up starting with Computer Science John I have this a little bit of follow up on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/14">TS</a>]
00:00:20 ◼ ► the software the complexity of software in computing and all that other stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/20">TS</a>]
00:00:26 ◼ ► What's a follow up on that and also directions a few themes I noticed in the feedback. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/26">TS</a>]
00:00:31 ◼ ► One theme or was a lot of people who either are involved in academia or feel some connection to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/31">TS</a>]
00:00:37 ◼ ► and what they want to talk about with sort of field versus field their field versus someone else's field whatever their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/37">TS</a>]
00:00:42 ◼ ► field may be. Physics chemistry engineering computer science math. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/42">TS</a>]
00:00:48 ◼ ► They I don't know if they mis understood the discussion as if it was computer science versus of the field [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/48">TS</a>]
00:00:53 ◼ ► but that sure is the discussion they wanted to have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/53">TS</a>]
00:00:56 ◼ ► and reminded me of this quote again from you know as they were in the way that the all codes apparently of Usenet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/56">TS</a>]
00:01:01 ◼ ► things and this one is computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/61">TS</a>]
00:01:08 ◼ ► I have a link that we can put in the show not they forget where the origin is but the little hash on the U.R.L. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/68">TS</a>]
00:01:13 ◼ ► Is disputed so maybe it's disputed where that quote comes from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/73">TS</a>]
00:01:16 ◼ ► but anyway that I think get to the heart of why we weren't talking about fields computer science vs any other field [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/76">TS</a>]
00:01:22 ◼ ► because it's not computer science is not about computers it's you know we were talking about software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/82">TS</a>]
00:01:27 ◼ ► and computer sciences tangentially about software but not really. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/87">TS</a>]
00:01:32 ◼ ► But anyway that's those are difficult different discussions they have about which field is superior to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/92">TS</a>]
00:01:39 ◼ ► or a subset of some other field stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/99">TS</a>]
00:01:41 ◼ ► and I were talking about the other one is people still want to talk about job difficulty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/101">TS</a>]
00:01:45 ◼ ► Like my job is harder than your job. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/105">TS</a>]
00:01:47 ◼ ► You're saying your job is the hardest job in the world so on and so forth I thought I made it clear in the last show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/107">TS</a>]
00:01:51 ◼ ► but apparently not clear enough to not have people come in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/111">TS</a>]
00:01:54 ◼ ► and say whatever I do for a living is harder than what you do for a living [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/114">TS</a>]
00:01:57 ◼ ► or you think what you do reliving is hard because you do it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/117">TS</a>]
00:02:00 ◼ ► It and so on and so forth that's also definite we're talking about once one persons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/120">TS</a>]
00:02:05 ◼ ► and then something about programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/125">TS</a>]
00:02:07 ◼ ► and complexity in the things we're talking about the last show which is from MIT is one of the ninety's courses on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/127">TS</a>]
00:02:14 ◼ ► Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs for that S S I C P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/134">TS</a>]
00:02:19 ◼ ► That's the one I think a thing of the book the book that they very much they have no idea lots of video lectures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/139">TS</a>]
00:02:25 ◼ ► and they said from minute nine to about ten minutes and forty five seconds in this recording. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/145">TS</a>]
00:02:30 ◼ ► The professor talks about a lot of the same things make the same argument I was making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/150">TS</a>]
00:02:34 ◼ ► but touches on a lot of the same points that I was using to support my argument [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/154">TS</a>]
00:02:37 ◼ ► and it's a fun you know video to watch if you just want to watch and mighty professor teach for a while. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/157">TS</a>]
00:02:41 ◼ ► So we'll have that link in the show to the well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/161">TS</a>]
00:02:43 ◼ ► and it's only a minute forty five seconds you know to watch the whole thing just scrub forward to nine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/163">TS</a>]
00:02:51 ◼ ► And then Casey you put something in there from listener email. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/171">TS</a>]
00:02:55 ◼ ► I think I was Marco actually talk about software complexity. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/175">TS</a>]
00:02:58 ◼ ► All right so this wonderful feedback we got from a guy named John purple pilot on Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/178">TS</a>]
00:03:04 ◼ ► and I love his name is John by the way so he says the fundamental mistake here of course is that woodpeckers do not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/184">TS</a>]
00:03:11 ◼ ► They pick trees trees are arguably the most complex things in existence by the way to get food store food [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/191">TS</a>]
00:03:16 ◼ ► and to nest Deadwood I eat that which has been felt and chemically treated is of no use or interest to woodpeckers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/196">TS</a>]
00:03:24 ◼ ► So wouldn't civilization would be secure from woodpeckers but probably vulnerable to woodworm or deathwatch beetles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/204">TS</a>]
00:03:29 ◼ ► or termites. So I'm pretty sure John if you ever get tired of doing the show we can replace you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/209">TS</a>]
00:03:38 ◼ ► It's another job with another guy named John who made that comment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/218">TS</a>]
00:03:43 ◼ ► It would have been much better if he pretended he was serious because towards the end it's clear that he was joking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/223">TS</a>]
00:03:47 ◼ ► and I kind of ruins the joke but I'm not sure he wants you out of the usual. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/227">TS</a>]
00:03:52 ◼ ► I assumed he was not woodworm deathwatch building termites but that over the top. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/232">TS</a>]
00:03:57 ◼ ► Are you joking when you criticize things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/237">TS</a>]
00:04:00 ◼ ► That's not criticizing it for us and the person knows that with a knowing e-mail I don't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/240">TS</a>]
00:04:13 ◼ ► And thank goodness he is named John because otherwise I would've been totally confused totally. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/253">TS</a>]
00:04:19 ◼ ► So what's often these days Marca this week response or once again by return sponsor from a while ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/259">TS</a>]
00:04:25 ◼ ► Ram objects so you might remember a long time ago we told you about RAM objects oxygen which is a cross platform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/265">TS</a>]
00:04:31 ◼ ► language that it was based on Pascal and it would let you compile for mac i OS Android Windows or even Windows Phone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/271">TS</a>]
00:04:40 ◼ ► Ram object has a new language now. It's a similar kind of kind of deal it's but actually based on the C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/280">TS</a>]
00:04:48 ◼ ► Pound Casey and how it is not seep out even in an accidental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/288">TS</a>]
00:04:51 ◼ ► or she has you know that's it that's it it's take tactile board noted C. Sharp you big jerk. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/291">TS</a>]
00:05:00 ◼ ► and it's as a lot of the same advantages effect probably all the same as oxygen so this is really cool it's it brings [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/300">TS</a>]
00:05:08 ◼ ► C. Sharp as a native language to Cocoa So it's one hundred percent C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/308">TS</a>]
00:05:13 ◼ ► Sharp that you're writing and you're writing it against one hundred percent cocoa. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/313">TS</a>]
00:05:17 ◼ ► It's very very cool so they ask you to take a look at it what you think right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/317">TS</a>]
00:05:22 ◼ ► So I took a look at it very very briefly but I did take a look at it and I did try it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/322">TS</a>]
00:05:26 ◼ ► and I built the world's simplest Hello World style I.O.'s app by writing C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/326">TS</a>]
00:05:30 ◼ ► Sharp using RAM objects and it was really weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/330">TS</a>]
00:05:34 ◼ ► but I definitely liked basically what they do is they let you write in C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/334">TS</a>]
00:05:41 ◼ ► Sharp just like you said Marco you're writing against the cocoa touch framework [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/341">TS</a>]
00:05:46 ◼ ► and so rather than using the dot net framework which is I believe Zambians approach which is more we're going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/346">TS</a>]
00:05:53 ◼ ► obstruct the way cocoa behind the Dot Net framework that you're probably familiar with this is a little close. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/353">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► Sort of the metal so to speak in that your writing C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/360">TS</a>]
00:06:03 ◼ ► Sharp but you're writing it against straight up you like it for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/363">TS</a>]
00:06:07 ◼ ► and they even went to the point of extending the C. Sharp language such that you can use the Objective C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/367">TS</a>]
00:06:17 ◼ ► or message names so I wrote code where I made an alert view in so it my code for those of you who writes the sharpies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/377">TS</a>]
00:06:28 ◼ ► Alert view space with title parin quote high parental Space message it's hundreds hundreds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/388">TS</a>]
00:06:34 ◼ ► or so it's really kind of weird but very cool that they've extended C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/394">TS</a>]
00:06:39 ◼ ► Sharp in order to allow you to write directly against cocoa in cover touch the advantage there being that you're you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/399">TS</a>]
00:06:46 ◼ ► really just putting a thin veneer on top of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/406">TS</a>]
00:06:49 ◼ ► and you're not relying on a whole different framework sitting between you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/409">TS</a>]
00:06:54 ◼ ► and Apple's framework so it's very cool very clever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/414">TS</a>]
00:06:57 ◼ ► and very interesting in the way they would have you write code is by writing in Visual Studio which I would argue is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/417">TS</a>]
00:07:03 ◼ ► the best idea in the world and then you run and you run an application ion on either your mac or a mac in the office [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/423">TS</a>]
00:07:11 ◼ ► or a mac in the cloud and it basically compiles the binary dumps it on to that MAC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/431">TS</a>]
00:07:16 ◼ ► and lets you run your app you turn the simulator on the device whatever it's actually very straightforward very easy to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/436">TS</a>]
00:07:22 ◼ ► set up it works really well and I liked it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/442">TS</a>]
00:07:25 ◼ ► I can definitely see how this could make some really cool stuff without having to rely on somebody else's glue in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/445">TS</a>]
00:07:31 ◼ ► between really. I mean you are but it's the thinnest lightest glue in the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/451">TS</a>]
00:07:37 ◼ ► So if you're interested in getting your own thin layer of like glue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/457">TS</a>]
00:07:40 ◼ ► and writing cocoa applications with the seizure of language go to ram objects dot com R.E.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/460">TS</a>]
00:07:47 ◼ ► Objects dot com slash C S And you can see for yourself instead of a cool videos here you can see you can get more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/467">TS</a>]
00:07:55 ◼ ► information than my mediocre performance in this ad read here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/475">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► You can actually get more information you see the kind of code Casey was writing. All right here these great videos. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/480">TS</a>]
00:08:04 ◼ ► Ram objects dot com slash C S Thank you so much to remap ject for sponsoring a show that you know I got to give him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/484">TS</a>]
00:08:11 ◼ ► credit this is a really cool thing to do to even attempt to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/491">TS</a>]
00:08:15 ◼ ► And from everything I've heard they do a really good job of it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/495">TS</a>]
00:08:17 ◼ ► So thanks a lot Rob just you know and I should also point out that that one of the things they say in their F.A.Q. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/497">TS</a>]
00:08:26 ◼ ► Is you know hey what with the framework being gone what about cool stuff like Link And so what they've done is they've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/506">TS</a>]
00:08:33 ◼ ► taken a lot of the link extension methods and it was pronounced a link that maybe if your surname is on. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/513">TS</a>]
00:08:42 ◼ ► But anyway they basically ported some of the more frequently used parts of link into their platform so that's a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/522">TS</a>]
00:08:53 ◼ ► smart call and really really awesome to have have that tool in your tool chest. So cool. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/533">TS</a>]
00:08:59 ◼ ► Thanks what they can the i Pad two finally how how long was it on sale so forever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/539">TS</a>]
00:09:06 ◼ ► It was released in two thousand and eleven like February twenty seventh. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/546">TS</a>]
00:09:11 ◼ ► So made it three years three full years of being on sale. Brand new and that is crazy talk. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/551">TS</a>]
00:09:18 ◼ ► Thing is only have one price drop. You know I wonder if that inventory they were trying to clear. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/558">TS</a>]
00:09:23 ◼ ► They just like made way too many of them because you could see how Apple wanted to get away from thirty pin everywhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/563">TS</a>]
00:09:30 ◼ ► they just it was a loan so I guess I buy classic style too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/570">TS</a>]
00:09:33 ◼ ► but like Lone real product lurching along with thirty that we've talked in past shows about why that we still want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/573">TS</a>]
00:09:38 ◼ ► be selling it too and how it made sense for education [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/578">TS</a>]
00:09:41 ◼ ► and all these other things that is why the lowest price possible but also my want the big screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/581">TS</a>]
00:09:44 ◼ ► and don't care about retina and so on and so forth but it just seem like it but it just went on for so long and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/584">TS</a>]
00:09:51 ◼ ► and the things that they replaced the i Pad two not with like the next model up but with two models up. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/591">TS</a>]
00:09:57 ◼ ► That's how old it is that it's like a Cayman can bring themselves. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/597">TS</a>]
00:10:00 ◼ ► Was to replace the i Pad two with the three are to continue with or opposing with before. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/600">TS</a>]
00:10:04 ◼ ► Well they probably don't want to admit that the three existed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/604">TS</a>]
00:10:07 ◼ ► I have the three I like the phrase it's not that bad I agree I have well actually Aaron's using it now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/607">TS</a>]
00:10:12 ◼ ► and it's really not that bad. It's great I mean I really like three. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/612">TS</a>]
00:10:16 ◼ ► Three is the one brief moment where Apple decided to do the thing they wouldn't move. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/616">TS</a>]
00:10:23 ◼ ► Thing they wouldn't budge on was battery life and so they made things better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/623">TS</a>]
00:10:26 ◼ ► and I like I wish they would do that with you know phones and laptops. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/626">TS</a>]
00:10:31 ◼ ► Mostly laptops I wouldn't I wouldn't hold my breath on phones. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/631">TS</a>]
00:10:35 ◼ ► I still hold out hope that if there is a bigger i Phone this year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/635">TS</a>]
00:10:38 ◼ ► and I think there will be that that might also come with a you know I mean I was on the talk show while back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/638">TS</a>]
00:10:44 ◼ ► and I mention this to Gruber that like I feel like if they do a big phone that might give them permission if they keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/644">TS</a>]
00:10:50 ◼ ► a small one in a line up the small one could be the one that keeps getting smaller and dinner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/650">TS</a>]
00:10:55 ◼ ► and the bigger one can have a little bit more permission to be a little bit thicker [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/655">TS</a>]
00:10:59 ◼ ► and therefore have not only a bigger battery [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/659">TS</a>]
00:11:01 ◼ ► but a nicer camera sensor because the camera sensor very limited very hard by thickness. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/661">TS</a>]
00:11:05 ◼ ► There's just there's so much more you could do with quality and image quality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/665">TS</a>]
00:11:09 ◼ ► and things like optical in the stabilization and better focus possibly even a slight zoom capability. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/669">TS</a>]
00:11:15 ◼ ► If you could get a little more depth on the phone so I would love it if they you know obviously Apple's never going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/675">TS</a>]
00:11:23 ◼ ► but if they have like you know a bigger i Phone that you know they'll keep the small WANT TO around for the nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/683">TS</a>]
00:11:28 ◼ ► marketing shots and people who want the super thin super small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/688">TS</a>]
00:11:31 ◼ ► but then they can have this bigger one for people who want a better camera and a bigger battery. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/691">TS</a>]
00:11:35 ◼ ► When I was listening to that episode I want to I felt like reminding you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/695">TS</a>]
00:11:38 ◼ ► and reaching the five years that the i Pod Touch My thing has a camera that is not flush with the back. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/698">TS</a>]
00:11:43 ◼ ► Yeah like that's that's kind of what happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/703">TS</a>]
00:11:46 ◼ ► and they just keep going like well you can't go to ten because we had the camera it's like screw the camera we're going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/706">TS</a>]
00:11:51 ◼ ► to enter it through the Carroll poke out deal with it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/711">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► I'm kind of surprised that they're still selling the i Pod Touch and tell me about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/713">TS</a>]
00:12:00 ◼ ► It seems like it's it doesn't sell that well and they don't care that much about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/720">TS</a>]
00:12:05 ◼ ► It's a kid's device though it's like a my first I.O.'s device because you can buy to be a kid you know I do worry about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/725">TS</a>]
00:12:09 ◼ ► cellphone stuff they can still play their I.O.'s games I think kids want them like based on talking to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/729">TS</a>]
00:12:14 ◼ ► or my children's friends of my little cousins and stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/734">TS</a>]
00:12:18 ◼ ► If they can have an i Phone which is of course what they really want but if they're too young for an i Phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/738">TS</a>]
00:12:21 ◼ ► and i Pod touch is the thing that they want that's like you know they aspired to have an i Phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/741">TS</a>]
00:12:26 ◼ ► when they were cool teenager and high school or wherever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/746">TS</a>]
00:12:28 ◼ ► But if they get that now and i Pod touch is the next best thing. You don't think the i Pad Mini has filled that role. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/748">TS</a>]
00:12:36 ◼ ► Not among the kids that I don't I don't think I haven't even seen an i Pad mini in the wild amongst the young kids yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/756">TS</a>]
00:12:43 ◼ ► maybe because maybe a too big to give a kid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/763">TS</a>]
00:12:47 ◼ ► or maybe I don't know to too expensive to breakable I thought that's a much cheaper it would be nice if they revised [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/767">TS</a>]
00:12:54 ◼ ► but looking at the I agree with you though John my sister in law who was in high school for the longest time until she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/774">TS</a>]
00:13:03 ◼ ► somewhat recently got an android phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/783">TS</a>]
00:13:05 ◼ ► when I wasn't paying attention she was using an i Pod Touch In addition to like a flip phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/785">TS</a>]
00:13:12 ◼ ► or one of those phones with a flight out so you can type on a full court a keyboard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/792">TS</a>]
00:13:16 ◼ ► when you wait so she was easier i Pod touches her kind of sort of smartphone. Well let me refrain from start to solar. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/796">TS</a>]
00:13:22 ◼ ► She was John Surtees and had an ancient nonce Mart phone and then used her i Pod Touch for doing smart things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/802">TS</a>]
00:13:30 ◼ ► and she said she loved it in the way she spoke about it it struck me as though that was a normal thing amongst her peer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/810">TS</a>]
00:13:36 ◼ ► group if they didn't already have i Phones or Android phones or whatever you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/816">TS</a>]
00:13:41 ◼ ► and for the big the big phone everything is going is here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/821">TS</a>]
00:13:45 ◼ ► I I'm pretty sure that they're going to be like what we don't need to make a figure we get all this extra area because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/825">TS</a>]
00:13:51 ◼ ► they will get a bigger battery because the phone has bigger like length and width wise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/831">TS</a>]
00:13:55 ◼ ► and they won't make it you know thicker higher so I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/835">TS</a>]
00:14:00 ◼ ► I would imagine it will be the same thickness as a five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/840">TS</a>]
00:14:02 ◼ ► and I think they're not above having the camera stick out a little bit like it does in the i Pod touch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/842">TS</a>]
00:14:07 ◼ ► or perhaps even more because I think unless they change the whole design to be designed around those I think that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/847">TS</a>]
00:14:14 ◼ ► absolutely does not want to bullshit all of the Android phones that you see out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/854">TS</a>]
00:14:18 ◼ ► and like the one they would need or even the Nokia ones [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/858">TS</a>]
00:14:22 ◼ ► when they want to bigger camera they like we will smoothly kind of raise up some kind of lump [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/862">TS</a>]
00:14:26 ◼ ► or it'll be like a lump with little ramps on the side or some kind of organic bulge type shape [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/866">TS</a>]
00:14:32 ◼ ► and you could Apple could come up with a rounded bulging kind of like design kind of like the made to people remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/872">TS</a>]
00:14:39 ◼ ► that look like or even the toilet book towable IMAX [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/879">TS</a>]
00:14:42 ◼ ► or any of those things like it's not it's not out of the realm of possibility that you go with something curved in fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/882">TS</a>]
00:14:46 ◼ ► every time I think of an i Phone Sex I think of something at the curb and tapered on the edges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/886">TS</a>]
00:14:52 ◼ ► Yes I actually have dreams about the shape of the i Phone six and the fact that is not a prediction that's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/892">TS</a>]
00:14:57 ◼ ► when I wake up having a dream where I saw the i Phone six it was curved in that anyway whatever you buy i Phones So why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/897">TS</a>]
00:15:05 ◼ ► do you do you have dreams about and who knows you can control your bedroom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/905">TS</a>]
00:15:08 ◼ ► and so is this the year for an i Phone for you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/908">TS</a>]
00:15:12 ◼ ► Oh I don't know but can I can I think of bet on no stranger things happen. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/912">TS</a>]
00:15:19 ◼ ► But if they stick with the current design trends that means flat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/919">TS</a>]
00:15:21 ◼ ► and if they're going to have a camera stakeout it will be a completely flat surface with a cylinder that sticks out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/921">TS</a>]
00:15:25 ◼ ► from it and really that's not that bad and I guess if it sticks out too much you can get hung up on stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/925">TS</a>]
00:15:30 ◼ ► but especially since so many people cases on them anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/930">TS</a>]
00:15:34 ◼ ► All that does is make the camera flush with the case or close to being flush with the case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/934">TS</a>]
00:15:39 ◼ ► and maybe it would help hold the case in place to keep from sliding I don't know I think Apple has options there I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/939">TS</a>]
00:15:45 ◼ ► think the I hope the bigger one has better battery life just because the batteries bigger then of course also have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/945">TS</a>]
00:15:53 ◼ ► But yeah what you're thinking a mark of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/953">TS</a>]
00:15:56 ◼ ► and you can actually make the big one thicker because we have a small one to fill it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/956">TS</a>]
00:16:00 ◼ ► Now it's back to what you're talking about John on the talk show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/960">TS</a>]
00:16:03 ◼ ► but you have two phones they don't have one they can have every possibility has a good argument for it would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/963">TS</a>]
00:16:09 ◼ ► something that Apple do you know none of them can you just threw out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/969">TS</a>]
00:16:12 ◼ ► So Apple would never do that to get all of them have really good reasons behind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/972">TS</a>]
00:16:15 ◼ ► and so it's just because of the way in theory so I have a somewhat related question. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/975">TS</a>]
00:16:20 ◼ ► One of the things that bothers me about a case lists i Phone is a probably all in my head. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/980">TS</a>]
00:16:29 ◼ ► Fear that I'm going to scratch the lens of the camera and I wonder if the current research [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/989">TS</a>]
00:16:39 ◼ ► or I guess are actually not even research they're building a plant to handle sapphires I cracked it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/999">TS</a>]
00:16:44 ◼ ► It's already Sapphire in the car on the current phone number [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1004">TS</a>]
00:16:47 ◼ ► and that's not the lens of the phone that's just the clear thing that covers the lens of the phone so sure if you've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1007">TS</a>]
00:16:52 ◼ ► got a scratch and that I'm not even sure optically whether that would show up in your pictures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1012">TS</a>]
00:16:58 ◼ ► but even if it would that's not like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1018">TS</a>]
00:17:02 ◼ ► That part of the phone assembly does not bend the light as far as I know it is purely there to protect the lens that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1022">TS</a>]
00:17:07 ◼ ► does Benoit's I'd imagine they could replace it for you. Reasonably inexpensively. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1027">TS</a>]
00:17:11 ◼ ► and also optically because of where it is in the optical path it would have to be a really bad scratch to show any kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1031">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► If you think about it like if you if you hold me very close to your eye you're focusing on something very far away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:25 ◼ ► You know it's like holding up a fishing line. An engine from your eye and focusing on something ten feet away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1045">TS</a>]
00:17:30 ◼ ► You're not going to see the fishing line where you're going to barely see it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1050">TS</a>]
00:17:33 ◼ ► So it has to be it has to be a pretty large problem on that surface to be visible in the photos. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1053">TS</a>]
00:17:40 ◼ ► So what I'm driving at though is so whatever it is be it a lens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1060">TS</a>]
00:17:43 ◼ ► or otherwise that's the outermost piece of the camera assembly it wouldn't make sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1063">TS</a>]
00:17:50 ◼ ► and I don't know anything about photography but it makes sense for that to be like sapphire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1070">TS</a>]
00:17:53 ◼ ► or something very very hard so that if they hypothetically had a bulge for this camera assembly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1073">TS</a>]
00:18:00 ◼ ► Maybe some of the marketing spiel could be owed Don't worry Casey Liss this won't scratch because it's sapphire in so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1080">TS</a>]
00:18:06 ◼ ► don't worry your pretty little face you're going to be all right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1086">TS</a>]
00:18:09 ◼ ► But it already is Sapphire is so that it is sapphire now yeah yeah on the five S. I thought that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1089">TS</a>]
00:18:15 ◼ ► So what what if I thought the software was for the Touch ID is it both. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1095">TS</a>]
00:18:19 ◼ ► It's definitely for the camera at the touch touch ID home buttons I think it might also be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1099">TS</a>]
00:18:23 ◼ ► and that's I assume with the Sapphire planter building you know a lot of people speculated that they might be going for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1103">TS</a>]
00:18:28 ◼ ► an entire sapphire covered screen to replace that glass I have doubts about whether they can make enough of it to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1108">TS</a>]
00:18:37 ◼ ► I'm guessing probably not because that's like if you think about the amount of i Phones that are made every year that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1117">TS</a>]
00:18:44 ◼ ► all thought that's a lot of sapphire and as what we heard when the i Phone five S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1124">TS</a>]
00:18:51 ◼ ► when it was pretty supply constrained I believe the prevailing wisdom on that was that it was related to supplies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1131">TS</a>]
00:18:59 ◼ ► and if that's the case then you can you can bet that you know there's only so much in love and such. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1139">TS</a>]
00:19:04 ◼ ► The sapphire might have been limitation and realtime follow up for me from me it is indeed on both the home button [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1144">TS</a>]
00:19:13 ◼ ► and the eyesight camera as per their website. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1153">TS</a>]
00:19:16 ◼ ► The Touch ID is going to go on all their devices then they're going to weigh more sapphire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1156">TS</a>]
00:19:21 ◼ ► and they don't need to something like oh they're going to cover the screen just for you don't need to say oh well touch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1161">TS</a>]
00:19:25 ◼ ► I do will spread from it won't just be on the high end phone anymore it'll be an all sorts thing i Pads you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1165">TS</a>]
00:19:31 ◼ ► mid-range phones and so they get a lot more stuff are just for that so it makes sense. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1171">TS</a>]
00:19:35 ◼ ► And there's definitely you know you can you can look at what they did this last fall with the product line between i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1175">TS</a>]
00:19:40 ◼ ► Phone and i Pad and and the you know the eighty seven and pretty much every benefit of the i Phone five S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1180">TS</a>]
00:19:48 ◼ ► Went into both I've had as well except Touch ID I don't know if the I'm seventy eight and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1188">TS</a>]
00:19:53 ◼ ► but that was that's less relevant and I've had but Touch ID was an obvious thing they left out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1193">TS</a>]
00:19:58 ◼ ► and I was kind of questionable why did. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1198">TS</a>]
00:20:00 ◼ ► Left it out and I think supply constraints make a lot of sense for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1200">TS</a>]
00:20:03 ◼ ► and certainly John I agree that you know if they're if they're both in production it really could just be for more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1203">TS</a>]
00:20:10 ◼ ► I don't think sapphire would make that great of a screen covering either because it's not just hardness that you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1210">TS</a>]
00:20:16 ◼ ► after like scratch resistance like Gorilla Glass has used to the little demos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1216">TS</a>]
00:20:19 ◼ ► or the like Ben didn't show that it was stand spending industry strong in other ways besides just being scratch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1219">TS</a>]
00:20:25 ◼ ► resistant and I'm not so Sapphire has the same the durability characteristics it has Gorilla Glass [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1225">TS</a>]
00:20:32 ◼ ► and you know might might be more fragile I don't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1232">TS</a>]
00:20:35 ◼ ► And someone somewhere knows better about the relative material abilities of sapphire and grill that say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1235">TS</a>]
00:20:43 ◼ ► but it's definitely a different thing so I wouldn't say Well they say it's better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1243">TS</a>]
00:20:46 ◼ ► and they say it's harder therefore we should cover the whole screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1246">TS</a>]
00:20:48 ◼ ► and that maybe not maybe this will finally be the year of the rollerball flexible phone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1248">TS</a>]
00:20:54 ◼ ► Who could the flexible funded L.G. Have flexible fun to see that one someone actually made one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1254">TS</a>]
00:21:00 ◼ ► We've we had curve and now you know right so it's curved [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1260">TS</a>]
00:21:02 ◼ ► and they show it like in the little demo video they show it sitting on a table [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1262">TS</a>]
00:21:05 ◼ ► and it curves up like a little you know it's like concave and a finger comes down presses it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1265">TS</a>]
00:21:09 ◼ ► and so it goes from curved to be flat against the table like that's more or less how much like Sadat's think it was L.G. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1269">TS</a>]
00:21:15 ◼ ► Had armor which but anyway that amount of flex makes me wonder what the point is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1275">TS</a>]
00:21:20 ◼ ► and also makes you wonder how how much can you fight you just want to grab [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1280">TS</a>]
00:21:23 ◼ ► and go if I keep flexing what happened for growth last year member of the destructive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1283">TS</a>]
00:21:26 ◼ ► or indestructible glasses came out in the eighty's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1286">TS</a>]
00:21:29 ◼ ► If you'd like to take a thing and Wrapped Around Your Finger is no come back to shape right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1289">TS</a>]
00:21:33 ◼ ► Flexible phone just invites some idiots try to see how far it's kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1293">TS</a>]
00:21:37 ◼ ► and I guarantee you a certain point over stuff like thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1297">TS</a>]
00:21:39 ◼ ► and you'll be feeling this is one of those things that people always fantasize about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1299">TS</a>]
00:21:45 ◼ ► There's always some like prototype flexible something or other a C.E.F. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1305">TS</a>]
00:21:49 ◼ ► No one ever makes after that and I wonder what is the use case for that like what. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1309">TS</a>]
00:21:55 ◼ ► What use is a slightly flexible phone but that you can't like fold in half an. Make a lot smaller. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1315">TS</a>]
00:22:01 ◼ ► Yeah it's not a I mean it's an incremental step like the idea of things that are flexible is like there is there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1321">TS</a>]
00:22:07 ◼ ► things that are flexible there is durable as you know like you can break it all you know you can do is bend it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1327">TS</a>]
00:22:12 ◼ ► and it springs back to its original shape so it's a dirt Billy type thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1332">TS</a>]
00:22:15 ◼ ► and weigh a little bit of flexes that may be a step along the way to next year if I swear things called the Elegy flex [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1335">TS</a>]
00:22:21 ◼ ► if you google for pictures of our clever name gee would expect we're also sponsored this week by a new sponsor to us as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1341">TS</a>]
00:22:32 ◼ ► far as I know but a very very old sponsored a pod casts. It's our friend that smile. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1352">TS</a>]
00:22:38 ◼ ► Now you've probably you probably heard of at least one smile formally smile software at least one smile product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1358">TS</a>]
00:22:46 ◼ ► and I use a lot myself actually so this week we've talked to you about text expander if you've ever heard a pod cast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1366">TS</a>]
00:22:53 ◼ ► you already know what this does but just in case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1373">TS</a>]
00:22:55 ◼ ► We're going to tell you anyway so it's really cool tech expander saves you time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1375">TS</a>]
00:22:59 ◼ ► and effort by expanding short abbreviations into frequently used text [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1379">TS</a>]
00:23:03 ◼ ► and pictures so they you know they play all sorts of A can do so they say for example you can do look at your e-mail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1383">TS</a>]
00:23:11 ◼ ► signature you can automatically like you know type a couple characters to like you know E.M.'s are coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1391">TS</a>]
00:23:15 ◼ ► and they will expand into your entirety most of which are you can you can have standard responses to emails [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1395">TS</a>]
00:23:21 ◼ ► or whatever and you can even define a form fields within the responses you can feel like when I type in you know X.Y.Z. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1401">TS</a>]
00:23:28 ◼ ► or Whatever fill my default response but then there's like these form field and you can you can tap into them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1408">TS</a>]
00:23:34 ◼ ► or type like a reason like that like you can you can customize each one based on how you define a thing so it's a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1414">TS</a>]
00:23:41 ◼ ► very powerful tool to take tech shortcuts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1421">TS</a>]
00:23:44 ◼ ► and expand them into whatever the heck you want this is one of those tools that like our friends Merlin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1424">TS</a>]
00:23:50 ◼ ► or they love these going towards because you can customize the crap out of this like you can do so much with this kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1430">TS</a>]
00:23:57 ◼ ► of thing you can you can create snippets from. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1437">TS</a>]
00:24:00 ◼ ► All Scripts and shell scripts you can sink your snippets via Dropbox you can use them on multiple devices. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1440">TS</a>]
00:24:05 ◼ ► Even texting or touch on I O. S. Normally with a spinner is a macro. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1445">TS</a>]
00:24:10 ◼ ► There's even the I was version and it works as an A.P.I. To other apps to integrate and over forty five apps. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1450">TS</a>]
00:24:17 ◼ ► I was seven so far have integrated Texas member support so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1457">TS</a>]
00:24:21 ◼ ► when you're typing into one of their text fields you can use your shared snippets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1461">TS</a>]
00:24:24 ◼ ► and it all works really really great Dropbox ing awesome. So go to smile Software dot com slash A.T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1464">TS</a>]
00:24:35 ◼ ► It really it's hard to cram a lot it's hard to really cram into this ad read everything Texas Mentor can do think of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1475">TS</a>]
00:24:42 ◼ ► as expand keyboard shortcuts into predefined things but with so much power behind it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1482">TS</a>]
00:24:48 ◼ ► and so many options so many ways you can do that that it's really quite incredible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1488">TS</a>]
00:24:53 ◼ ► and this is one of the reasons why I've never heard a tech spin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1493">TS</a>]
00:24:55 ◼ ► or ad read on anyone else's show that was shorter than like fifty minutes long. But go check it out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1495">TS</a>]
00:25:01 ◼ ► Smile Software dot com slash A.T.V. Also if it helps. Smile is run by a really really good people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1501">TS</a>]
00:25:08 ◼ ► They've been around forever making mac and I with software really and they make good stuff and they're good people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1508">TS</a>]
00:25:14 ◼ ► So check em out smile Software dot com slash A.T.T. Thanks a lot for sponsor our show. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1514">TS</a>]
00:25:19 ◼ ► The tireless chat room has done our research for us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1519">TS</a>]
00:25:21 ◼ ► and found a link that has information about sapphire vs Gorilla Glass. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1521">TS</a>]
00:25:25 ◼ ► Apparently the fire is one point six times heavier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1525">TS</a>]
00:25:28 ◼ ► and Gorilla Glass can take two point five times more pressure than Suffolk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1528">TS</a>]
00:25:32 ◼ ► and there's other things as well about light transmission and how much energy it takes to manufacture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1532">TS</a>]
00:25:38 ◼ ► and other things where it's a different Ariel. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1538">TS</a>]
00:25:41 ◼ ► A lot of the stats given in this this is the interview with someone from grilling last always they tell you all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1541">TS</a>]
00:25:46 ◼ ► I fire right like you know over how much energy it takes to manufacture it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1546">TS</a>]
00:25:49 ◼ ► and how much it costs all those things you can change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1549">TS</a>]
00:25:51 ◼ ► but the materials that you are it's more difficult to change so yeah maybe maybe don't look for a sapphire screen on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1551">TS</a>]
00:26:00 ◼ ► I look for stuff our camera covers and touch anything he's touch anything he says adding a technical term Touch I.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1560">TS</a>]
00:26:08 ◼ ► Services. I just close the tab there is a think a book an official term for it but that's right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1568">TS</a>]
00:26:14 ◼ ► What else do you want to talk about this book that came out about how Apple is haunted by the ghost of Steve Jobs I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1574">TS</a>]
00:26:20 ◼ ► really don't have much to say about it but I felt like we should at least briefly recognize that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1580">TS</a>]
00:26:25 ◼ ► and it sounds like everyone that I know that's read it says it's pretty bad. See that's the problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1585">TS</a>]
00:26:31 ◼ ► Everyone thinks they should recognize everyone thinks they have to comment on it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1591">TS</a>]
00:26:35 ◼ ► And I referenced by going on this rant I'm commenting on it and therefore being a hypocrite [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1595">TS</a>]
00:26:40 ◼ ► The fact is you can say anything you want to anything you like the whole point of this book is to get mention [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1600">TS</a>]
00:26:47 ◼ ► and become a controversy and become get discussed so that everyone goes out and reads it. That's the whole point. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1607">TS</a>]
00:26:53 ◼ ► And by lending credence to what is clearly from almost all the reviews was clearly a pretty terrible book based upon a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1613">TS</a>]
00:27:02 ◼ ► presupposed argument that really is not supported at all in the book and by the facts. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1622">TS</a>]
00:27:07 ◼ ► It just seems like it seems like this is a cheap trick to get attention and to get book sales [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1627">TS</a>]
00:27:14 ◼ ► and we're all falling into it by talking about it and by by linking to the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1634">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► and by by even taking it as credible by even even the suggestion that we need to defend ourselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:26 ◼ ► or defend a position or that Apple needed to respond to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1646">TS</a>]
00:27:29 ◼ ► or anything at that level why would anyone even if you talk about this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1649">TS</a>]
00:27:32 ◼ ► Well I mean the circles we travel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1652">TS</a>]
00:27:34 ◼ ► and there are a couple different strains that are working against this one is that any book that ends up being critical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1654">TS</a>]
00:27:39 ◼ ► of apple if you read mostly Apple centric sites people who are Apple fans are going to say this book says bad things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1659">TS</a>]
00:27:44 ◼ ► about Apple is wrong because let me tell you why all the things they say are all wrong because I like apple I think was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1664">TS</a>]
00:27:49 ◼ ► good they're saying Apple's betting they're going to fight so that like that you expect to see that type of feedback. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1669">TS</a>]
00:27:55 ◼ ► The other thing is that so few people have any access at all to Apple. So the content. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1675">TS</a>]
00:28:00 ◼ ► The book is sure to be filled with like you know example earns make fun of like we've we found Tim Cook's childhood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1680">TS</a>]
00:28:07 ◼ ► typing teacher because that's the only person you get X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1687">TS</a>]
00:28:10 ◼ ► You can't you can't talk to the people who know anything like you have to talk to people who've been out of who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1690">TS</a>]
00:28:14 ◼ ► like who left Apple years and years ago who are were fired and or disgruntled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1694">TS</a>]
00:28:18 ◼ ► or like you just you just don't have access to the real things you have second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1698">TS</a>]
00:28:21 ◼ ► and third hand information in the first ten stuff you have is just barely relevant so it could be argued that even if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1701">TS</a>]
00:28:28 ◼ ► there was a case to be made that Apple was a haunted empire and there's all these problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1708">TS</a>]
00:28:32 ◼ ► or whatever you wouldn't have access to enough people or facts to actually support your case and that's why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1712">TS</a>]
00:28:41 ◼ ► when people read this is they OK the whole story is that Apple has big problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1721">TS</a>]
00:28:45 ◼ ► and that story people assume like you know this author you're Yukari Cain went in with that premise ahead of time like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1725">TS</a>]
00:28:53 ◼ ► I'm going to write a book about Apple's doomed and start from that premise understand supporting southward [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1733">TS</a>]
00:28:58 ◼ ► but couldn't find enough supporting facts. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1738">TS</a>]
00:29:01 ◼ ► It could be that she went in just trying to write a story about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1741">TS</a>]
00:29:06 ◼ ► and the few the few supporting facts she found a lot of young theme I can sort of tease out of all this information [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1746">TS</a>]
00:29:11 ◼ ► mostly from second and third hand information and I need something that's like dramatic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1751">TS</a>]
00:29:16 ◼ ► and the two things you can have a dramatic are like you know the Steve Jobs to error of story which is Apple rising [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1756">TS</a>]
00:29:22 ◼ ► from the ashes that's one kind of dramatic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1762">TS</a>]
00:29:24 ◼ ► and once they've risen from the ashes the only other dramatic story left is watching them fall so I don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1764">TS</a>]
00:29:31 ◼ ► everything who is familiar with the author before reading the book says that she was a good reporter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1771">TS</a>]
00:29:37 ◼ ► So I'm not entirely willing to go full cynical and said she was writing like a hatchet job [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1777">TS</a>]
00:29:43 ◼ ► and just trying to gin up controversy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1783">TS</a>]
00:29:46 ◼ ► It could be that this is where the scant facts that she had led her but it just doesn't sound like it's a very. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1786">TS</a>]
00:29:52 ◼ ► I didn't read it so I can't say but it doesn't sound like a very well supported argument within the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1792">TS</a>]
00:29:56 ◼ ► and also every single time I see her name which is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1796">TS</a>]
00:30:00 ◼ ► Yukari came which I have to spare and every time I said what I read in my head is where when you tiny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1800">TS</a>]
00:30:04 ◼ ► but neither one of you knows what that is and wailing Tani is not spelled in any way like Yukari cane [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1804">TS</a>]
00:30:09 ◼ ► but my eyes like transposed the Y. In the case that way when you talk anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1809">TS</a>]
00:30:14 ◼ ► That's all I have to say about the book I think well I feel like you know that there's two things that I want to pick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1814">TS</a>]
00:30:19 ◼ ► on here one is that you say well she's a reporter that doesn't mean anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1819">TS</a>]
00:30:25 ◼ ► Reporters span the spectrum for and even if she had only about every Vishy than the reporter for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1825">TS</a>]
00:30:33 ◼ ► but the people said her reporting was good like her stories were good like they were in trashy stories they look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1833">TS</a>]
00:30:38 ◼ ► their well researched stories an insightful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1838">TS</a>]
00:30:40 ◼ ► and so on again as I'm going from other people so I guess I haven't I don't remember seeing a byline anywhere so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1840">TS</a>]
00:30:46 ◼ ► and this comes up frequently in the text I mean a Imagine if you ever read a story like in The New York Times about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1846">TS</a>]
00:30:54 ◼ ► technology and you see like you these are like these are legitimate journalist supposedly writing about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1854">TS</a>]
00:30:59 ◼ ► and then you see the like sixty percent of it is wrong or bad or misleading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1859">TS</a>]
00:31:03 ◼ ► or you know somehow poorly done you know with this like the fact that she's a reporter doesn't mean anything to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1863">TS</a>]
00:31:11 ◼ ► reporters while there are good ones. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1871">TS</a>]
00:31:14 ◼ ► The average is pretty bad especially these days the average is I'd say really bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1874">TS</a>]
00:31:19 ◼ ► and so just being a reporter alone even if you don't for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1879">TS</a>]
00:31:22 ◼ ► and even if some people think you're a good reporter that isn't necessarily mean you're qualified to write a book about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1882">TS</a>]
00:31:27 ◼ ► a tech company especially one as as secretive and controversial as this. Second of all who cares if it's a book. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1887">TS</a>]
00:31:35 ◼ ► If this was published as a series of blog posts that all ended with well by the way Steve Jobs goes looking over them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1895">TS</a>]
00:31:40 ◼ ► and they're doomed if this is a blog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1900">TS</a>]
00:31:43 ◼ ► and every every post was trying to cram badly supported facts into a predefined narrative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1903">TS</a>]
00:31:50 ◼ ► and not doing a very good job of even doing that would we give any credibility to it would even be talking about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1910">TS</a>]
00:31:57 ◼ ► and the answer is probably no now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1917">TS</a>]
00:32:00 ◼ ► We're talking about this because it's a book because culturally we like put we put value on books sell well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1920">TS</a>]
00:32:06 ◼ ► A book is a big deal because you know that they had to spend months on it and some reporter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1926">TS</a>]
00:32:10 ◼ ► or some some publisher had to pick it up and everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1930">TS</a>]
00:32:13 ◼ ► but the fact is books books are just as bad as everything else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1933">TS</a>]
00:32:17 ◼ ► and there's there's tons of horrible books being published at the time the publisher publish this book because they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1937">TS</a>]
00:32:22 ◼ ► knew it would sell. They did their job properly in this case they knew this book would sell. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1942">TS</a>]
00:32:26 ◼ ► They didn't care whether it's going to be good or accurate they don't need to care about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1946">TS</a>]
00:32:30 ◼ ► All they need to care about is will this book sell and pretty clearly that they bet correctly on that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1950">TS</a>]
00:32:37 ◼ ► and that doesn't mean they need to talk about it's really does it mean that the burden is on us to you know somehow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1957">TS</a>]
00:32:44 ◼ ► somehow prove to the world that you know this book is stupid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1964">TS</a>]
00:32:47 ◼ ► or that we need to you know ignore the fact is books are just as fallible as everything else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1967">TS</a>]
00:32:53 ◼ ► and have roughly the same quality average [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1973">TS</a>]
00:32:55 ◼ ► and everything else I think the jury's still out though on the on the theme of the book like ignoring that the content [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1975">TS</a>]
00:33:01 ◼ ► of the book and how well the theme is supported this is the right time for a book about how Apple may be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1981">TS</a>]
00:33:06 ◼ ► and a client right because we don't know if it's in decline yet it's too soon to say ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1986">TS</a>]
00:33:09 ◼ ► and still waiting on you know whatever Apple's going to do next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1989">TS</a>]
00:33:12 ◼ ► or whatever so if you're going to write a book about how Apple declined you better do it before they come out with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1992">TS</a>]
00:33:17 ◼ ► whatever Big Bang thing that could you go gangbusters and you also say say Apple never comes out with something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/1997">TS</a>]
00:33:23 ◼ ► or the car with a brand new product in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2003">TS</a>]
00:33:24 ◼ ► but the whole company on it's a flop if you read then write a book about Apple's decline you have to wait long the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2004">TS</a>]
00:33:29 ◼ ► other way for the post mortem because you don't seem you don't feel like you're insightful right so a book about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2009">TS</a>]
00:33:34 ◼ ► you just paste in the title you just pitch haunted employer Apple after Steve Jobs you could pitch to a publisher this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2014">TS</a>]
00:33:39 ◼ ► is the right time for that book it just doesn't doesn't appear to be a good book based around that title right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2019">TS</a>]
00:33:45 ◼ ► But that is like you said the publisher is going to say yes we would love a book like that we would love a good book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2025">TS</a>]
00:33:49 ◼ ► like that but if we can't get a good book like that will take whatever we get is now is a dime for that book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2029">TS</a>]
00:33:54 ◼ ► and if Apple does go down the tubes like people are going to be fighting this bug. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2034">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► The book was terrible but she saw it coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:01 ◼ ► and maybe she didn't see it coming like doesn't seem like if you make an argument and you don't support it well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2041">TS</a>]
00:34:06 ◼ ► and you're sort of self-contradictory and get a bunch of things wrong and don't have good access. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2046">TS</a>]
00:34:10 ◼ ► Even if your theme turns out to be right later I don't think you get credit for prickly predicting anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2050">TS</a>]
00:34:14 ◼ ► but I think the jury is out and we are all waiting for to see what Apple does next. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2054">TS</a>]
00:34:18 ◼ ► So this is definitely the time for this apparently very bad book. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2058">TS</a>]
00:34:23 ◼ ► One of the things that I've wondered about myself after hearing all the hubbub about this book is am I capable actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2063">TS</a>]
00:34:32 ◼ ► are we capable of being critical of Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2072">TS</a>]
00:34:35 ◼ ► and perhaps I'm just filling in the blanks to make my argument with myself sound OK in and the way I wanted to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2075">TS</a>]
00:34:42 ◼ ► but I feel like the three of us have been fairly critical of Apple you know we've we've all meant to their services [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2082">TS</a>]
00:34:48 ◼ ► division pretty much since the show started. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2088">TS</a>]
00:34:53 ◼ ► or I believe we complained about how little storage is in the devices how little storage you get on in their services. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2093">TS</a>]
00:34:59 ◼ ► So I don't think that any of us are incapable of being upset with Apple or disagreeing with Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2099">TS</a>]
00:35:06 ◼ ► but I don't know it's something I I worry about that I don't I don't want to be just a shill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2106">TS</a>]
00:35:12 ◼ ► or if I am a shill for Apple I want to at least know wait and minutes myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2112">TS</a>]
00:35:17 ◼ ► and then admitted to everyone that listens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2117">TS</a>]
00:35:19 ◼ ► and I don't think we're there yet worrying about whether I'm capable of being critical something is not something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2119">TS</a>]
00:35:24 ◼ ► I can market before mentioned about journalists and how you know the average is pretty low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2124">TS</a>]
00:35:32 ◼ ► and to get things wrong I was reminded of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2132">TS</a>]
00:35:36 ◼ ► It wasn't time to Time magazine there was something like The Times of London or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2136">TS</a>]
00:35:40 ◼ ► and the story was reprinted in time but I weigh the whole big deal was like a Johnny I thing yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2140">TS</a>]
00:35:45 ◼ ► Finally we have we have access to an interview with Johnny I view which it's true he so rarely does interviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2145">TS</a>]
00:35:52 ◼ ► and he decides to do an interview not because it was a product induction or anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2152">TS</a>]
00:35:55 ◼ ► but it's like hey here's Johnny Ive you want to talk to him and then you read the interview. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2155">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► And it's clear that the person doing the interview doesn't really understand Apple Johnny Ive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:04 ◼ ► or technology which is a shame because it's kind of like to authorize extreme situations a writ small. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2164">TS</a>]
00:36:09 ◼ ► Give an opinion on that John. Yeah I mean that's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2169">TS</a>]
00:36:15 ◼ ► and buy books I have just been ignoring it because I knew it was going to be no good like I don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2175">TS</a>]
00:36:19 ◼ ► Unlike the Walter Isaacson's book I don't have to read it because it's not like this is the one person who had to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2179">TS</a>]
00:36:23 ◼ ► expect exclusive access to someone who's now dead that is not the case we want to work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2183">TS</a>]
00:36:27 ◼ ► but I way this Johnny Ive interview is like the person who did the interview read but Leander was his last name. Cany. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2187">TS</a>]
00:36:35 ◼ ► Anyway here's Johnny Ive book also suffers from not having a ton of Access but he did the leg work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2195">TS</a>]
00:36:43 ◼ ► and he got as much access as you could to people's causes Johnny I was you couldn't it was a lot of new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2203">TS</a>]
00:36:47 ◼ ► and good information in there even if you could tell it's like boy he really didn't get as much time as I'm sure he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2207">TS</a>]
00:36:53 ◼ ► would have wanted was Johnny and cell phone with Apple but like what can you do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2213">TS</a>]
00:36:56 ◼ ► But the Johnny I book I would recommend reading even if you can totally tell that it suffers from a lack of access plus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2216">TS</a>]
00:37:00 ◼ ► not the author's fault but the interviewer read that book summarized at third grade book report style [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2220">TS</a>]
00:37:06 ◼ ► and then asked Johnny Ive three dumb questions and wrote his answers and that's their super exclusive interview. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2226">TS</a>]
00:37:11 ◼ ► It's like seriously I mean maybe if you haven't read that book you might think oh this is some new information here is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2231">TS</a>]
00:37:18 ◼ ► all this from the book like I don't know if you got a cell but he's a summarizing the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2238">TS</a>]
00:37:22 ◼ ► and then the questions he asked Johnny I would just like the same questions is answered a million times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2242">TS</a>]
00:37:26 ◼ ► and this was an interesting it was such a squandered opportunity not squandered again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2246">TS</a>]
00:37:31 ◼ ► and same with Walter Isaacson squandered it because Johnny I was a dead end because you've done other interviews [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2251">TS</a>]
00:37:36 ◼ ► and he was not designated as the one you know person who's going to write the definitive autobiography of Johnny Ive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2256">TS</a>]
00:37:43 ◼ ► but boy that was a bummer of an interview. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2263">TS</a>]
00:37:46 ◼ ► Well I love that the one thing that that grilled Johnny Ivon was what do you do with your old i Phones. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2266">TS</a>]
00:37:54 ◼ ► or what do you think is going to happen the hermetically sealed operating system whatever the hell that means I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2274">TS</a>]
00:38:00 ◼ ► I had to get it like that you can't change the batteries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2280">TS</a>]
00:38:02 ◼ ► or they're built in obsolescence The thing is all they actually said Planned obsolescence. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2282">TS</a>]
00:38:06 ◼ ► Yeah like you know the the the connectors that are always changing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2286">TS</a>]
00:38:10 ◼ ► I made a tweet about it like I just bought the thirty pin connector barely a decade ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2290">TS</a>]
00:38:15 ◼ ► and now you're going to change something like what you've got to be kidding me of all it's clear that he just didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2295">TS</a>]
00:38:20 ◼ ► understand the market like Google for people angry at Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2300">TS</a>]
00:38:23 ◼ ► and found like non-replaceable batteries people complain about lightning connector [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2303">TS</a>]
00:38:26 ◼ ► and it's like those are not the things seriously of all the things that Apple has done that are very Apple like to piss [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2306">TS</a>]
00:38:32 ◼ ► Changing the thirty pink actor to lightning after like a decade and a half [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2312">TS</a>]
00:38:36 ◼ ► or whatever the how long that thirty been connected with a route that is not one of the apple things to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2316">TS</a>]
00:38:40 ◼ ► Like that's not one of they do lots of things like that soldering the ramp feeling in the batteries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2320">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► but they've had two connectors an entire lifetime the thing seriously. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:49 ◼ ► All right that that article was super disappointing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2329">TS</a>]
00:38:51 ◼ ► and that's an example of someone wrote a good post about it I wish I could find it where they were like trying to sell [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2331">TS</a>]
00:39:00 ◼ ► When Apple gives you schools have access to one of their employees don't send dunces to interview them like they're so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2340">TS</a>]
00:39:06 ◼ ► hard to find somebody who knows something about Apple the sun I mean like how these people get picked in the press the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2346">TS</a>]
00:39:11 ◼ ► article is like trying to take pains to say I'm not saying you should sent me or like my friends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2351">TS</a>]
00:39:16 ◼ ► but like seriously you have these opportunities. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2356">TS</a>]
00:39:19 ◼ ► It can't be that hard to find somebody who knows something who is also a competent interview and send them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2359">TS</a>]
00:39:24 ◼ ► Why is it always wise those people have no idea what they're talking about well you know maybe the answer is because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2364">TS</a>]
00:39:32 ◼ ► like maybe Apple agrees to do these kinds of interviews knowing that the questions are not going to really be anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2372">TS</a>]
00:39:38 ◼ ► real or difficult like knowing to be like complete B.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2378">TS</a>]
00:39:43 ◼ ► Interview like maybe Apple wouldn't agree to a published interview from you because they would know that you actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2383">TS</a>]
00:39:49 ◼ ► ask good questions that would that would be you know difficult but also have a P.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2389">TS</a>]
00:39:53 ◼ ► Would try to pick the person but these days they seem to pick the publication like I don't think they pick this guy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2393">TS</a>]
00:40:00 ◼ ► I think they offered up Johnny after the publication and the publication picked their reporter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2400">TS</a>]
00:40:04 ◼ ► and these people who they send the dunces their worst because they're like trying to press Johnny Ivan things that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2404">TS</a>]
00:40:10 ◼ ► no you know a lot of controversies are never really worry about like you know replaceable batteries is not hot in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2410">TS</a>]
00:40:16 ◼ ► news now like that's not what you want to Leno and Jony Ive about as your tough questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2416">TS</a>]
00:40:19 ◼ ► or like hermetically sealed operating system like he doesn't even know what he's getting at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2419">TS</a>]
00:40:23 ◼ ► but like past controversies or things that like those aren't relevant that's not you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2423">TS</a>]
00:40:29 ◼ ► and having Johnny Ive have to try to parse those questions and deflect like that's a waste of his time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2429">TS</a>]
00:40:35 ◼ ► and I don't think Apple would choose that either it's not like you're just getting softballs you've got to come in like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2435">TS</a>]
00:40:39 ◼ ► I'm going to be tough and asking the tough questions the tough questions are nonsensical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2439">TS</a>]
00:40:42 ◼ ► and Johnny like I think I understand what you're getting at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2442">TS</a>]
00:40:44 ◼ ► but like didn't we like is that controversy you know you are talking about ten again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2444">TS</a>]
00:40:48 ◼ ► Like what are we talking about here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2448">TS</a>]
00:40:51 ◼ ► but it's the same type of thing as if they sent some cub reporter to lean on Johnny Ive of antenna gate. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2451">TS</a>]
00:40:57 ◼ ► That's going to be about as useful as and a disciple of the interview they did. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2457">TS</a>]
00:41:02 ◼ ► The interview was not that impressive to me at all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2462">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► but let it be known the news publications of the world that if you need someone to interview an Apple employee John's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:13 ◼ ► or case is available you have to pay for his flight. I'm a terrible interior but I always know what I'm talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2473">TS</a>]
00:41:20 ◼ ► Goodness we're also sponsored this week by our friends at square space the all in one platform that makes it fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2480">TS</a>]
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00:41:54 ◼ ► and these temples have won numerous awards from Rashid's institutions and to me it is incredibly easy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2514">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► You can do code injection all the way up to full gooey type editing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:05 ◼ ► You're very you know tons of power here it's really really great. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2525">TS</a>]
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00:42:11 ◼ ► So your site looks it looks like your site on mobile all the way up to a giant thirty inch monitor if you have one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2531">TS</a>]
00:42:18 ◼ ► Really it looks the same everywhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2538">TS</a>]
00:42:20 ◼ ► or rather has the same theme everywhere you know looks in the same style everywhere so it's not just like one generic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2540">TS</a>]
00:42:26 ◼ ► mobile theme they apply to everything really really great system they have here fully responsive in case of any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2546">TS</a>]
00:42:31 ◼ ► problems this or any if you need any help with this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2551">TS</a>]
00:42:34 ◼ ► They have over seventy employees working full time in a support department right here in New York City. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2554">TS</a>]
00:42:39 ◼ ► They were twenty four hours a day seven days a week and even they have won numerous awards. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2559">TS</a>]
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00:43:07 ◼ ► Thanks a lot the Squarespace are sponsoring our show once again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2587">TS</a>]
00:43:11 ◼ ► You gave me time to find your article was just Carlson [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2591">TS</a>]
00:43:14 ◼ ► and the title of his post was why the big magazines hire hacks for big tech stories. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2594">TS</a>]
00:43:18 ◼ ► So I put that over there on the show no it's annoying to the actual interview [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2598">TS</a>]
00:43:21 ◼ ► and a link to the end of Kenny's Johnny Ive book which like I said suffers from a lack of access [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2601">TS</a>]
00:43:26 ◼ ► but I would still recommend people reading because there are there is information that was new to me in that book. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2606">TS</a>]
00:43:32 ◼ ► Right so Sony released some virtual reality headset saying incorrect. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2612">TS</a>]
00:43:39 ◼ ► They don't release anything then else you can tell how much I care about video games and know about the stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2619">TS</a>]
00:43:45 ◼ ► Did you see the suits at all in your isolation bubble Marco your jury duty isolation bubble. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2625">TS</a>]
00:43:50 ◼ ► No I saw I think I saw one tweet talking about it but it's like at long story my very quick time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2630">TS</a>]
00:43:56 ◼ ► but unfortunately during my quick time at lunch after actually eat lunch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2636">TS</a>]
00:44:00 ◼ ► And so there's actually not a lot of time to browse the internet that much. So yeah I always thought I was. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2640">TS</a>]
00:44:05 ◼ ► They are apparently making one or working on one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2645">TS</a>]
00:44:09 ◼ ► and I thought it was funny because it seems like the our headsets are are being worked on roughly every three to five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2649">TS</a>]
00:44:16 ◼ ► years by somebody new and they never seem to really get anywhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2656">TS</a>]
00:44:20 ◼ ► I know there's the the Oculus Rift the one I know that one that was getting some traction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2660">TS</a>]
00:44:25 ◼ ► but this is coming to a head because like it's not this is not a regular cycle type thing this is more like there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2665">TS</a>]
00:44:31 ◼ ► some people who have dabbled before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2671">TS</a>]
00:44:33 ◼ ► and there was like the first briefings in this direction in the ninety's with these terrible things that you'd see at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2673">TS</a>]
00:44:40 ◼ ► but it went away for a long time because we just learned we're not that the stuff doesn't work. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2680">TS</a>]
00:44:45 ◼ ► And Oculus has been bringing it back in a big way and the rumors of Sony doing it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2685">TS</a>]
00:44:51 ◼ ► We're also bringing it back with like you know there are I think there are Kickstarter originally it's like they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2691">TS</a>]
00:44:56 ◼ ► doing this thing it seems really cool but you know who knows who is really there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2696">TS</a>]
00:45:00 ◼ ► and then John Carmack went to work for Oculus and left in software and that was a big deal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2700">TS</a>]
00:45:04 ◼ ► Like oh my God Well he's going there he's no dummy he's not going to be like joining up in this company that really has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2704">TS</a>]
00:45:10 ◼ ► and people have tried it it tried the kids they've said it's interesting in a president have the second version of Get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2710">TS</a>]
00:45:16 ◼ ► which is way better than the first and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2716">TS</a>]
00:45:17 ◼ ► when it went to technology actually looks like it's getting going that's what you get with the first one is like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2717">TS</a>]
00:45:21 ◼ ► there's something there but this isn't great in the second one is way better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2721">TS</a>]
00:45:24 ◼ ► and then the rumors of something too it's like OK well somebody looking at this isn't just a crazy research process [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2724">TS</a>]
00:45:28 ◼ ► because Sony wants to you know sell things the use of your Playstation they don't want like some weird you know thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2728">TS</a>]
00:45:35 ◼ ► that's not practical in the real world. So G.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2735">TS</a>]
00:45:37 ◼ ► See I haven't read a lot about the story or Mostly I read the headlines but I know the highlights of G.T.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2737">TS</a>]
00:45:43 ◼ ► Sony announced that they're going to have some kind of headset thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2743">TS</a>]
00:45:46 ◼ ► and they showed like their history they've been working on this thing for years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2746">TS</a>]
00:45:49 ◼ ► and years they show all the various old prototypes and this is not a shipping product yet there's no pricing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2749">TS</a>]
00:45:54 ◼ ► or availability I don't think but they have announced their intention to have a shipping product so now I think that's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2754">TS</a>]
00:46:01 ◼ ► Like Oculus was going to ship the thing anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2761">TS</a>]
00:46:03 ◼ ► and like it's the real deal as far as people are concerned people are actually playing games in it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2763">TS</a>]
00:46:07 ◼ ► Weather would be amazing or fun or Revolution game or not it was going to be a real product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2767">TS</a>]
00:46:12 ◼ ► but what Sony does it it's like OK this is real real like I mean the connector for all you may say is like useless for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2772">TS</a>]
00:46:18 ◼ ► games or silly or only fun for certain things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2778">TS</a>]
00:46:22 ◼ ► and I guess I shipped it at the connect they revise it they made a better they should they connect to is part of X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2782">TS</a>]
00:46:27 ◼ ► It is a real thing with out there in the mass market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2787">TS</a>]
00:46:29 ◼ ► and it seems like we are is very soon going to be a real thing with out there in the mass market [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2789">TS</a>]
00:46:34 ◼ ► and we'll see if it's more successful than the connected spin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2794">TS</a>]
00:46:37 ◼ ► but I think this topic is fascinating mostly because of the technology problems that are involved in doing V.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2797">TS</a>]
00:46:45 ◼ ► and I've been reading about it for several years with the Michael address you now work in a valve who's also been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2805">TS</a>]
00:46:53 ◼ ► and he is a previous development partner of John Carmack they work together on Quake I believe in maybe something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2813">TS</a>]
00:46:58 ◼ ► before that as well and there are tons of problems with V.A.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2818">TS</a>]
00:47:03 ◼ ► Because you think of it as like you put this thing on your head and it's like a screen close to your face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2823">TS</a>]
00:47:07 ◼ ► and it shows like what you would see in a first person shooter and you're done right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2827">TS</a>]
00:47:10 ◼ ► and that is so far from the truth because if that's what it was we would have had it years ago that that doesn't work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2830">TS</a>]
00:47:17 ◼ ► and tons of reasons I put a huge number of links in here in the show notes will try to put them up in rough weeks on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2837">TS</a>]
00:47:22 ◼ ► chronological order Marco if you don't have anything to read during jury duty I challenge you to get through even just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2842">TS</a>]
00:47:27 ◼ ► the links in this article but it is there extremely tough going and in-depth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2847">TS</a>]
00:47:31 ◼ ► and by the time you're done reading it you'll be like man I don't want to implement to be our heads. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2851">TS</a>]
00:47:35 ◼ ► That sounds really hard like the problems are just so different when you have screens right up close to your face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2855">TS</a>]
00:47:42 ◼ ► when the movement of your head has to affect the changes in view because any sort of disconnect there is it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2862">TS</a>]
00:47:49 ◼ ► totally breaks the illusion because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2869">TS</a>]
00:47:51 ◼ ► when you turn your head you better be looking to your side you can have it like catch up later. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2871">TS</a>]
00:47:55 ◼ ► I mean talk about motion sickness it's that it's very difficult even to simple. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2875">TS</a>]
00:48:00 ◼ ► Things with screens that are shot in your head of course has to be two different screens because you're right I see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2880">TS</a>]
00:48:04 ◼ ► something different in your left eye so I think this is a real thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2884">TS</a>]
00:48:08 ◼ ► I would really love to try something like this but I have not had an opportunity to try it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2888">TS</a>]
00:48:13 ◼ ► But it's Sony comes out with one I will probably buy a Play Station four and buy one of these crazy things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2893">TS</a>]
00:48:18 ◼ ► and sit in my living room with like a crazy person with something on my head just to see what this is like you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2898">TS</a>]
00:48:25 ◼ ► take a picture of that. Please get in touch with Tina I'm not worried about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2905">TS</a>]
00:48:29 ◼ ► Did you have a Virtual Boy when those were thing I genuinely have done the same as the other stationary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2909">TS</a>]
00:48:35 ◼ ► but no I didn't. Did anybody have a virtual pool. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2915">TS</a>]
00:48:37 ◼ ► Why do you know if that was during the era in which you could have bought it for yourself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2917">TS</a>]
00:48:43 ◼ ► If you're just a little old or very old and I wouldn't buy the for myself you know I felt I was a dud. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2923">TS</a>]
00:48:50 ◼ ► I just remember when this is the true story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2930">TS</a>]
00:48:53 ◼ ► when I was a kid I want to say this is like my tenth birthday some like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2933">TS</a>]
00:48:57 ◼ ► This was early ninety's we were living gosh we're either living in Illinois or in Austin Texas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2937">TS</a>]
00:49:04 ◼ ► and I somehow convinced my parents to go to this like virtual reality arcade [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2944">TS</a>]
00:49:09 ◼ ► and I put a link in the Channel put in the show notes and it was like this God awful Early's nine early ninety's V.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2949">TS</a>]
00:49:16 ◼ ► Where you would like hold something and he was like a first person shooter sort of thing where you hold something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2956">TS</a>]
00:49:21 ◼ ► and you had this like was there a terror attack though I don't remember. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2961">TS</a>]
00:49:24 ◼ ► But there could have been that many of these things because it was it was like the same like the demo that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2964">TS</a>]
00:49:29 ◼ ► and all it did a little science centers and everything in one thousand nine hundred three. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2969">TS</a>]
00:49:33 ◼ ► And so I've really I had a birthday party there where we basically played like a not bloody death match game against [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2973">TS</a>]
00:49:41 ◼ ► each other and I remember not a big guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2981">TS</a>]
00:49:44 ◼ ► but I remember trying to put this massive helmet on my head in barely being able to lift my damned thing what you'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2984">TS</a>]
00:49:50 ◼ ► like twenty pounds and my gosh it was so rudimentary and so awful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2990">TS</a>]
00:49:55 ◼ ► but at the time I thought it was amazing I couldn't believe my eyes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/2995">TS</a>]
00:50:00 ◼ ► My eyes are red I couldn't believe what I was doing it was incredible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3000">TS</a>]
00:50:03 ◼ ► Well those things always felt like and the reason they sucked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3003">TS</a>]
00:50:05 ◼ ► and went away very quickly is they felt like you were using your head. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3005">TS</a>]
00:50:08 ◼ ► It felt like you know when you have someone who's like disabled and in a wheelchair in some way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3008">TS</a>]
00:50:13 ◼ ► and they can't they can't use their limbs so they have lots of controls for their head because they do have net control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3013">TS</a>]
00:50:17 ◼ ► where you get a bomb inside your head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3017">TS</a>]
00:50:19 ◼ ► when it feels like you're using your head to operate the controls of first person shooter that does not feel like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3019">TS</a>]
00:50:25 ◼ ► are looking around in a virtual world because the lag was so horrendous they would just be like it would be like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3025">TS</a>]
00:50:30 ◼ ► know you'd be sending sending instructions via telegram to another room who would then move the mouse on your first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3030">TS</a>]
00:50:37 ◼ ► person shooter and of course the resolution was low in the frame it was terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3037">TS</a>]
00:50:40 ◼ ► but if so some of the if you read all these articles are the technical challenges some of them are actually interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3040">TS</a>]
00:50:45 ◼ ► as they are related to television challenges well like they're using obviously L.C.D. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3045">TS</a>]
00:50:49 ◼ ► Screens upon your eyeballs because you not have a C.R.T. There although the really cool steampunk kind of way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3049">TS</a>]
00:50:55 ◼ ► Is what we mostly do with them unlike our displays and i just because they display an image [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3055">TS</a>]
00:51:00 ◼ ► and they're lit up all the time essentially and you change the image in the pixels change from one thing to another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3060">TS</a>]
00:51:05 ◼ ► but you know during the time in between the images changing the old images there the whole time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3065">TS</a>]
00:51:10 ◼ ► and then it switches to the new image [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3070">TS</a>]
00:51:12 ◼ ► and that turned out to be very terrible for things where you turn your head as you start turn your head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3072">TS</a>]
00:51:17 ◼ ► and say the refresh rate is like sixty frames a second for one sixteenth of a second the pictured hasn't changed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3077">TS</a>]
00:51:23 ◼ ► You started moving your head your head is moving but the picture is not changing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3083">TS</a>]
00:51:26 ◼ ► and that's not the way it works in the real world the sooner you start moving your head what you see in front of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3086">TS</a>]
00:51:29 ◼ ► changes and it's actually bad for the images sort of be there all the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3089">TS</a>]
00:51:33 ◼ ► and so one of the ones where the way they've been commenting this is with low persistence images where they will blink [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3093">TS</a>]
00:51:40 ◼ ► the image on to the screen for the smallest time possible then have the screen be black for the most of that six eleven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3100">TS</a>]
00:51:45 ◼ ► second and blink the next image and link the next image [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3105">TS</a>]
00:51:47 ◼ ► and you would say would not be worse would not be like flashing and blinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3107">TS</a>]
00:51:50 ◼ ► and aggressive that's you know that's how I see Artie's work but I don't like Sunbeam scanning up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3110">TS</a>]
00:51:55 ◼ ► and down he does so fast you can see the scanning but it turns out that makes a big difference. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3115">TS</a>]
00:52:01 ◼ ► Televisions now as well trying to to get rid of like the soap opera effect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3121">TS</a>]
00:52:04 ◼ ► and I have the motion learn everything to say let's strobe the backlight really fast so it's black in between frames [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3124">TS</a>]
00:52:10 ◼ ► like because it's not that people felt unnatural the images there are just different technologies we're just used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3130">TS</a>]
00:52:15 ◼ ► The move project is great shows one image [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3135">TS</a>]
00:52:17 ◼ ► and then there's a blanking in the role that shows another one with L.C.D.'s tv's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3137">TS</a>]
00:52:22 ◼ ► and with easier headsets turned out to be better for perception to show an image really bright image one frame of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3142">TS</a>]
00:52:29 ◼ ► really quickly for a tiny amount of time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3149">TS</a>]
00:52:31 ◼ ► Make the screen black until the next image is ready and show the next image [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3151">TS</a>]
00:52:34 ◼ ► and that turned out to be better because the way our visual system works is not like it really is our goal it is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3154">TS</a>]
00:52:39 ◼ ► like oh it's like a camera the records what's in front of us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3159">TS</a>]
00:52:42 ◼ ► and sense approach to our brain our visual system is all screwed up and lots of stuff happens in the brain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3162">TS</a>]
00:52:47 ◼ ► and it is not as straightforward as you think it is that you have to do all these hacks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3167">TS</a>]
00:52:50 ◼ ► and tricks to work with the quirks of our visual system to make something that doesn't make people sick. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3170">TS</a>]
00:52:56 ◼ ► That feels realistic and feels immersive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3176">TS</a>]
00:52:57 ◼ ► and that's what I'm doing that's why people are excited about is like they're actually starting to get those hacks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3177">TS</a>]
00:53:03 ◼ ► right I mean once they figured out people in hindsight to be like oh you just go do X. Y. and Z. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3183">TS</a>]
00:53:06 ◼ ► but We're figuring it out now but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3186">TS</a>]
00:53:09 ◼ ► when I think about this I worry a little bit about Sony like the UK US guys have great you know John Karr. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3189">TS</a>]
00:53:15 ◼ ► We're going to there they're doing it right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3195">TS</a>]
00:53:17 ◼ ► And Sony are like maybe Sony just wants to be kind of in the ME TO club and it is going to take two screens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3197">TS</a>]
00:53:22 ◼ ► and flopped in front of her eyeballs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3202">TS</a>]
00:53:23 ◼ ► and it's going to not going to take advantage of all the stuff that Oculus knows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3203">TS</a>]
00:53:26 ◼ ► and that would be a bummer if they are scared of that too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3206">TS</a>]
00:53:30 ◼ ► Do you think I'm going to be scared that something's going to be great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3210">TS</a>]
00:53:32 ◼ ► but one of the stories on polygon I read today I agreed with I think was by Ben to chair was saying that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3212">TS</a>]
00:53:37 ◼ ► Oculus once the Sony v I think to be awesome to because they don't want the Sony of your thing to come out everyone to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3217">TS</a>]
00:53:42 ◼ ► try it to suck in the never on the go over our socks and then Oculus comes out no like now working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3222">TS</a>]
00:53:47 ◼ ► or in your view they all know the V.A.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3227">TS</a>]
00:53:49 ◼ ► Sucks now I got us once we are to be a real thing and so Sony's thinking up would be bad but so far it seems like Sony. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3229">TS</a>]
00:53:56 ◼ ► They've been you know researching for a long time that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3236">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► They are not dummies they're not just aching to you know to P.S.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:03 ◼ ► or To a place they should be to scream shoving from a ribald in calling it a day at work I've been doing the hard work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3243">TS</a>]
00:54:08 ◼ ► as well. No no they're putting transference and from your eyeballs. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3248">TS</a>]
00:54:11 ◼ ► I'm calling today that would be cool if they would also saw the persistence problems low persistence images [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3251">TS</a>]
00:54:20 ◼ ► Problem solved because you had a problem though like you know neck pain that was one of the points I made of the Sony [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3260">TS</a>]
00:54:27 ◼ ► want to Sony highlight of the fact that their heads that does not rest on your nose or like doesn't rest on your nose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3267">TS</a>]
00:54:34 ◼ ► or maybe the inset also on your forehead like this that's one of the sticking things if you want to put this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3274">TS</a>]
00:54:38 ◼ ► but they're heavy enough they're heavier than glasses for you know if they rest on your nose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3278">TS</a>]
00:54:42 ◼ ► and use them for a while it'll make like your neck in your in the bridge of your nose hurt after a while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3282">TS</a>]
00:54:46 ◼ ► and so the Sony one uses kind of like a sort of a a ring around your head kind of like a visor type cap [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3286">TS</a>]
00:54:52 ◼ ► and it hangs the picture screens down in front your eyes so it shows that they are thinking about the practical real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3292">TS</a>]
00:54:58 ◼ ► world problems are also they're open on the bottom so they don't like fog up inside if you get all sweaty cool this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3298">TS</a>]
00:55:05 ◼ ► probably the opposite of cool but very excited to try to answer the question a chair [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3305">TS</a>]
00:55:09 ◼ ► and like I said No I have not tried Oculus Rift any version I haven't tried to sue anyone either. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3309">TS</a>]
00:55:13 ◼ ► I would be willing to try to do one of those things and I get a chance. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3313">TS</a>]
00:55:17 ◼ ► And they also know I wish there was an incident going on. This is actually a slow week. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3317">TS</a>]
00:55:24 ◼ ► I put good health problem in there as a valid title to I did not know enough about that to comment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3324">TS</a>]
00:55:32 ◼ ► and you can see that's the thing I've tried to read up as much as I can on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3332">TS</a>]
00:55:36 ◼ ► but I just feel like there's no facts in the in the press at the moment if you could go to the blog fear or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3336">TS</a>]
00:55:45 ◼ ► and so I don't think would be appropriate to comment on the particular situation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3345">TS</a>]
00:55:50 ◼ ► And speaking of things that are controversial things when you go down I mean a controversial supporters words [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3350">TS</a>]
00:55:56 ◼ ► but speaking of things I'm not sure I want to touch because it's going to piss off the world of matter HOW. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3356">TS</a>]
00:56:00 ◼ ► Currently we handle it it's you know whether or not men in our field treat women poorly I think the answer is yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3360">TS</a>]
00:56:08 ◼ ► and I think it's terrible but I don't know if I really wanted them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3368">TS</a>]
00:56:12 ◼ ► Well I don't I don't think anything about the specific case that it's not like me to go in depth about the details of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3372">TS</a>]
00:56:18 ◼ ► it but I like the larger issue I think is worth discussing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3378">TS</a>]
00:56:22 ◼ ► and like you know if if we don't take the opportunity to discuss this issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3382">TS</a>]
00:56:25 ◼ ► when something happens related to it in you know basically in our own circles of the blogs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3385">TS</a>]
00:56:30 ◼ ► and Twitter feeds theory read then you know like them are just never going to talk about it as if it remains one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3390">TS</a>]
00:56:37 ◼ ► and come through with that which is never say anything about it we just feel like one of ignore it until it goes away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3397">TS</a>]
00:56:41 ◼ ► or blows over or don't want to follow it and I just don't feel like I Things will get better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3401">TS</a>]
00:56:45 ◼ ► and so I I think it's worth discussing in general if not in this specific case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3405">TS</a>]
00:56:52 ◼ ► And I'll say one thing about a specific case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3412">TS</a>]
00:56:54 ◼ ► and then we can talk about the general issue if you guys are still too afraid. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3414">TS</a>]
00:56:59 ◼ ► In this specific case I went something like this comes up there's always the well you know all we've got is a lumber is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3419">TS</a>]
00:57:07 ◼ ► inside the prison side you know one person's word against another or people take sides and Web sites [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3427">TS</a>]
00:57:15 ◼ ► and one Web site is on the side of the side in the whole web site start fighting with each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3435">TS</a>]
00:57:19 ◼ ► and they will fight in the comments and stuff like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3439">TS</a>]
00:57:22 ◼ ► And even without going into details though like one of the things that comes up in a lot of cases including one that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3442">TS</a>]
00:57:29 ◼ ► I'm not going to bring up that ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3449">TS</a>]
00:57:30 ◼ ► and you know what I'm referring to that people like to take the rules that apply in Marco's jury duty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3450">TS</a>]
00:57:38 ◼ ► and say well if there's any reasonable doubt if we can't convict you know what I mean like Beyond has to be beyond a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3458">TS</a>]
00:57:43 ◼ ► reasonable doubt. So innocent until proven guilty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3463">TS</a>]
00:57:47 ◼ ► That's what that's how we we must think about these things always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3467">TS</a>]
00:57:50 ◼ ► and that's true in the law because there is consequences in law like you go to jail. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3470">TS</a>]
00:57:54 ◼ ► So you know the for criminal court cases the bar is high because we don't want to send people to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3474">TS</a>]
00:58:00 ◼ ► Hell when they didn't do it like where they were trying to avoid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3480">TS</a>]
00:58:03 ◼ ► but just having an opinion your opinion doesn't send anyone to jail. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3483">TS</a>]
00:58:07 ◼ ► So I think we should be more free to have an opinion based on you know just whatever other criteria we think are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3487">TS</a>]
00:58:15 ◼ ► reasonable because we're not saying we're sure we're not saying this person should go to jail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3495">TS</a>]
00:58:18 ◼ ► or whatever we're just saying like if I had to put money on it like if you think about that for the Vegas odds you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3498">TS</a>]
00:58:24 ◼ ► what it says and when I see a story like this and I see all the hate going back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3504">TS</a>]
00:58:28 ◼ ► and forth the Vegas odds on in this type of situation where a woman feels wrong by an employer the Vegas odds are she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3508">TS</a>]
00:58:37 ◼ ► was wrong by employer because it happens all the time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3517">TS</a>]
00:58:40 ◼ ► Like if I had to put money on it I would say that the money is on the woman telling her first person account of having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3520">TS</a>]
00:58:47 ◼ ► a bad experience of work is telling the truth because that's almost always how it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3527">TS</a>]
00:58:50 ◼ ► and it doesn't mean like oh that's what you just convict them all I that's not the criteria you can use to actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3530">TS</a>]
00:58:55 ◼ ► convict someone or to say certain someone and get help is bad or good or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3535">TS</a>]
00:58:59 ◼ ► but if I had to put money in that's what I would put money on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3539">TS</a>]
00:59:02 ◼ ► and people are even afraid to make that assertion because they're like well you don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3542">TS</a>]
00:59:05 ◼ ► and you just get one side all that is true [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3545">TS</a>]
00:59:07 ◼ ► but I think it's fine to kind of like get a feel for how you think things are going to turn out because you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3547">TS</a>]
00:59:14 ◼ ► saying for sure you're not condemning anybody you're not pointing a finger at some specific person to get out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3554">TS</a>]
00:59:18 ◼ ► and saying they're a bad person just saying from a distance I feel like when this thing comes out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3558">TS</a>]
00:59:24 ◼ ► and all the laundry is finally Aaron if it does go to court or whatever that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3564">TS</a>]
00:59:27 ◼ ► when the truth finally comes out never in kind of agreed by consensus of what the truth is what will come out is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3567">TS</a>]
00:59:32 ◼ ► the woman was wrong because it just happened so often. But that's that's the safe bet. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3572">TS</a>]
00:59:38 ◼ ► And the fact that we can't even say that without saying well you're just you're prejudiced against Get out now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3578">TS</a>]
00:59:43 ◼ ► and you're condemning them without a fair trial blah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3583">TS</a>]
00:59:45 ◼ ► It's like it just doesn't seem like that's just like another stopgap against you know if you say anything you need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3585">TS</a>]
00:59:52 ◼ ► have a hundred percent proof otherwise you're a bad person and it's just he said he said versus she said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3592">TS</a>]
00:59:57 ◼ ► and we shouldn't discuss it also that bothers me. About all these types of cases. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3597">TS</a>]
01:00:02 ◼ ► People think it's OK to have a reasonable expectation of how it might turn out because you're not you know you're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3602">TS</a>]
01:00:09 ◼ ► making any decisions and you not say anything with certainty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3609">TS</a>]
01:00:12 ◼ ► But anyway that's how I feel about the specific issue on a specific case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3612">TS</a>]
01:00:17 ◼ ► In its You're right in saying that it we should talk about it I think the thing that scares me is I mean I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3617">TS</a>]
01:00:26 ◼ ► and given that our audience all of whose flesh whom I love very dearly tends to be a bunch of Pete and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3626">TS</a>]
01:00:34 ◼ ► and God forbid I make one mistake. God forbid I say one thing incorrect isn't it. We figure that out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3634">TS</a>]
01:00:41 ◼ ► Well there you go. Who's going to be figured out who started the P.T. Thing is something Gruber ism. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3641">TS</a>]
01:00:46 ◼ ► I think it is going to stop it. Everyone knows it's pedant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3646">TS</a>]
01:00:50 ◼ ► Yeah well either way there is no better word to mispronounce in the was language than that you know so perfect. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3650">TS</a>]
01:00:56 ◼ ► Anyway so I'm not saying we shouldn't talk about it I just I want to make sure that that I if not all of us handle it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3656">TS</a>]
01:01:02 ◼ ► delicately and I'm a little scared that I won't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3662">TS</a>]
01:01:06 ◼ ► But you shouldn't you shouldn't be because people who condemn people who are speaking like you know every one misspeaks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3666">TS</a>]
01:01:11 ◼ ► we do it all the time and if you misspeak on a sensitive subject it's no more intentional than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3671">TS</a>]
01:01:15 ◼ ► when you misspeak saying someone's name or saying the name of a product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3675">TS</a>]
01:01:19 ◼ ► or technology is because like the top of the can so incredibly charge that you're worried if you accidentally say the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3679">TS</a>]
01:01:24 ◼ ► wrong word that you get people from one side or there are going to condemn you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3684">TS</a>]
01:01:28 ◼ ► and that shouldn't we all make honest mistakes we all misspeak it happens like it's how you react to that like because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3688">TS</a>]
01:01:33 ◼ ► it is a charge issue you may suddenly get all defensive or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3693">TS</a>]
01:01:36 ◼ ► and that's you know where you wouldn't get all defensive if you misspoke about like the price of a product [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3696">TS</a>]
01:01:40 ◼ ► or something on a you know on a podcast. Sure but no I it's interesting because I so take my company for example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3700">TS</a>]
01:01:50 ◼ ► We have I don't know maybe ten developers I would say roughly. And of all of them we have. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3710">TS</a>]
01:02:00 ◼ ► One young lady that is a tester and is part of our same group been in the org chart. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3720">TS</a>]
01:02:08 ◼ ► But I don't believe we have any developers and that's really it's really not a good thing really bums me out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3728">TS</a>]
01:02:16 ◼ ► and I don't think it's deliberate on any of our parts were fairly progressive company. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3736">TS</a>]
01:02:21 ◼ ► I think we would certainly love to have more women developers I mean being fifty fifty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3741">TS</a>]
01:02:25 ◼ ► or whatever the planetary ratio is sixty forty whatever would be awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3745">TS</a>]
01:02:30 ◼ ► But as it turns out our particular group is almost exclusively a buncha doods and I wish that wasn't the case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3750">TS</a>]
01:02:37 ◼ ► and I have not worked with very many women developers in my entire career which is around about ten years now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3757">TS</a>]
01:02:45 ◼ ► and I don't like it. It's no good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3765">TS</a>]
01:02:48 ◼ ► But it's I mean even in school I barely saw any women engineers and I don't know why that is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3768">TS</a>]
01:02:57 ◼ ► I don't know if it's if it's a social or societal thing or at least in America. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3777">TS</a>]
01:03:04 ◼ ► and so the things that what is a gene McDonald that is doing at camp I totally got that wrong you know what I'm talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3784">TS</a>]
01:03:13 ◼ ► about Afghan for girls right. OK OK I had to get that right. I think that's awesome. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3793">TS</a>]
01:03:17 ◼ ► And I'm I'm really stoked and hopeful that that really makes a difference and I think it will. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3797">TS</a>]
01:03:23 ◼ ► I don't like Marco if you work with a lot of women as developers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3803">TS</a>]
01:03:28 ◼ ► I think the number might be zero I went to school with a few although the ratio there was pretty terrible as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3808">TS</a>]
01:03:35 ◼ ► You know thinking back I'm pretty sure I've never worked with him out of Alper And that's I mean that's you know this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3815">TS</a>]
01:03:41 ◼ ► is one of the reasons why I don't usually talk about controversy like this that that always seem to come up in our in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3821">TS</a>]
01:03:49 ◼ ► our tech roll recently is because I completely agree that it is a problem but I really don't know how to fix it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3829">TS</a>]
01:03:56 ◼ ► You know I am going to just try to do my best to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3836">TS</a>]
01:04:00 ◼ ► You know be conscientious in this in the decisions I make as you know in a linear past the Academy I've never even been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3840">TS</a>]
01:04:08 ◼ ► in a position where I was able to hire somebody. I've never made a hiring decision before even a tumbler. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3848">TS</a>]
01:04:13 ◼ ► I was not to make hiring decisions. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3853">TS</a>]
01:04:15 ◼ ► So I've I think that's one of the areas obviously where where you could focus a lot on that is hiring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3855">TS</a>]
01:04:22 ◼ ► and then if you're if you're a boss over any people if your supervisor then you know that's relevant there as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3862">TS</a>]
01:04:28 ◼ ► I've never been this position so I really don't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3868">TS</a>]
01:04:31 ◼ ► The issue that well or I don't know you know what it would take to fix it. I do agree K.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3871">TS</a>]
01:04:37 ◼ ► That I have been in a position where I was at least able to make you know look over and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3877">TS</a>]
01:04:44 ◼ ► and help interview applicants for jobs before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3884">TS</a>]
01:04:48 ◼ ► and thinking back I don't think there was even ever a case where a woman even applied to the point where I was even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3888">TS</a>]
01:04:56 ◼ ► able to see her resume or interview her to a position. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3896">TS</a>]
01:04:59 ◼ ► But my sample size there is very very small I've only you know I was only involved in a handful of those kind of things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3899">TS</a>]
01:05:04 ◼ ► But this is definitely there's definitely problems in our industry with both the hiring of women [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3904">TS</a>]
01:05:11 ◼ ► and then the treatment of them once they get it what once they get hired and the treatment of women in. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3911">TS</a>]
01:05:17 ◼ ► and I'm going to the tech industry this is a you know a problem culturally worldwide health in those places which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3917">TS</a>]
01:05:24 ◼ ► but I don't know how to solve that problem besides the limited bit I can do from where I am as far as I know which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3924">TS</a>]
01:05:34 ◼ ► you know when things got canned for girls come around I can try support those things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3934">TS</a>]
01:05:38 ◼ ► And if I'm ever given a chance to make a hiring decision then you know to ignore gender when I make that decision. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3938">TS</a>]
01:05:45 ◼ ► Besides that I I don't really know what else I can do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3945">TS</a>]
01:05:49 ◼ ► and if there are you know major things I could do above to hear about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3949">TS</a>]
01:05:55 ◼ ► You know they went after him for girls came out it got a lot of support because I think a lot of people didn't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3955">TS</a>]
01:06:00 ◼ ► What to do and that was something that was very clearly this this could help in a small latest could help. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3960">TS</a>]
01:06:05 ◼ ► So let's support that and support and I can help. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3965">TS</a>]
01:06:09 ◼ ► I would like to say I would like to have more opportunities for people who know more about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3969">TS</a>]
01:06:12 ◼ ► and who are better suited to to even know how to address these kind of things which I am you know some of it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3972">TS</a>]
01:06:19 ◼ ► middling not. I would love to know what else you know men who are programmers like us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3979">TS</a>]
01:06:27 ◼ ► What else we can do to address this you know how else can we help. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3987">TS</a>]
01:06:32 ◼ ► Here's something I've heard from people who have worked with I have worked with a lot of women and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3992">TS</a>]
01:06:39 ◼ ► and Don't you know have been like well I work with women and everything seems to be fine here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/3999">TS</a>]
01:06:44 ◼ ► and you know I I don't see any problems. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4004">TS</a>]
01:06:49 ◼ ► And the idea there is if you are a nice person and if and if you hang out with other nice people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4009">TS</a>]
01:06:55 ◼ ► If someone is being a jerk somewhere you might not see that because there's the whole you know the whole culture the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4015">TS</a>]
01:07:00 ◼ ► women try it you know keep their heads down and not make a big fuss about these things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4020">TS</a>]
01:07:04 ◼ ► and so it could very well be that you are working in a company with a bunch of women who you treat perfectly fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4024">TS</a>]
01:07:10 ◼ ► but who nevertheless get terrible treatment from others and just don't say anything about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4030">TS</a>]
01:07:13 ◼ ► and you're not aware of that because they don't say anything about it it doesn't apply to any of us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4033">TS</a>]
01:07:17 ◼ ► Well I mean I suppose it could apply to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4037">TS</a>]
01:07:18 ◼ ► but for you to we're not working with a lot of women that's not going to come up and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4038">TS</a>]
01:07:23 ◼ ► when I think about things we can do it's like even if you're not in the situation if you just read enough about it to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4043">TS</a>]
01:07:29 ◼ ► know to know what the path ologies are can know like yesterday is possible for you a nice person to be working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4049">TS</a>]
01:07:34 ◼ ► alongside women who are being terribly three do not know it because they don't feel confident [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4054">TS</a>]
01:07:38 ◼ ► and confiding in you because they don't complain about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4058">TS</a>]
01:07:41 ◼ ► And so if you're even a little like oh well you could support women who have these problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4061">TS</a>]
01:07:44 ◼ ► or whatever like you can support them if you don't know it's happening so that's like step one be aware of what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4064">TS</a>]
01:07:49 ◼ ► might not even know like you might not even know these things are happening and this is not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4069">TS</a>]
01:07:52 ◼ ► But by the way I think where they get help thing this is a specific case with a Jeff with a possible gender slant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4072">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► There everywhere and those I have experienced and dirty bosses can be jerks there tend to be jerks to everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:06 ◼ ► and it's a similar type of situation where maybe someone is getting sort of you know harassed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4086">TS</a>]
01:08:10 ◼ ► or emotionally abused by their boss by their boss the spouse by anybody else regardless of what gender they are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4090">TS</a>]
01:08:15 ◼ ► People have terrible bosses in terrible work relationships [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4095">TS</a>]
01:08:19 ◼ ► and some people hide it because they feel like it I mean men [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4099">TS</a>]
01:08:21 ◼ ► and women who like if someone is you know treating them very badly in a job they don't want to say they look like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4101">TS</a>]
01:08:27 ◼ ► they're weak or they're they don't feel like they don't have a way out and you may be working alongside them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4107">TS</a>]
01:08:31 ◼ ► That's another reason I believe these things because toxic work relationships between you know you know superior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4111">TS</a>]
01:08:38 ◼ ► and subordinate work relationships that are toxic are just everywhere like and I have experienced those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4118">TS</a>]
01:08:42 ◼ ► and I've seen them first hand second hand and heard about them from others they're worse when gender is involved. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4122">TS</a>]
01:08:48 ◼ ► But even if gender is not involved like it happened so much like just you know if that's the pattern of you know give [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4128">TS</a>]
01:08:55 ◼ ► somebody a little bit of power and have them have any sort of imbalance and I started using that power [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4135">TS</a>]
01:09:00 ◼ ► and taking it out on the people below them and just so many bad things happen in companies because of that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4140">TS</a>]
01:09:06 ◼ ► and if you're not aware of it really it's not happening to you you might not see it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4146">TS</a>]
01:09:10 ◼ ► and so that I think would be like the first step that any of us can take is be aware that this could be a thing that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4150">TS</a>]
01:09:14 ◼ ► happening even if you're not part of it and I don't know what you do about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4154">TS</a>]
01:09:18 ◼ ► but I guess I guess being aware is the first step in the cycle when I was you know supporting people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4158">TS</a>]
01:09:23 ◼ ► or any situations again regardless of gender or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4163">TS</a>]
01:09:25 ◼ ► and I guess the third is don't do that work for companies like that like Don't start a company like that don't be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4165">TS</a>]
01:09:31 ◼ ► company like don't be a boss like that but also don't work for companies like that is the problem is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4171">TS</a>]
01:09:36 ◼ ► when like you know even if all these things are true that get have a lot of good people who work there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4176">TS</a>]
01:09:41 ◼ ► and they like working a good hub and maybe some of them are even tenderly aware of this thing gets like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4181">TS</a>]
01:09:46 ◼ ► But I like my job and I don't want to realize that I work for a bunch of jerks. If I quit would that change it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4186">TS</a>]
01:09:53 ◼ ► Do we collectively all go up and say we know somebody is being a jerk to somebody else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4193">TS</a>]
01:09:57 ◼ ► and they should fix it like silence is like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4197">TS</a>]
01:10:00 ◼ ► The worst thing that could happen here was simple it is going to keep their head down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4200">TS</a>]
01:10:02 ◼ ► and try not to think about it it doesn't really affect them maybe it's not as bad as it seems to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4202">TS</a>]
01:10:07 ◼ ► and that's the worst thing that can happen I just you know maintains the status quo the status quo is crappy for a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4207">TS</a>]
01:10:11 ◼ ► of people do you work with a lot of women developers Currently I do surprisingly most of my past jobs have. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4211">TS</a>]
01:10:18 ◼ ► Well I mean The first started I worked at like I was the only programmer and I was male. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4218">TS</a>]
01:10:22 ◼ ► So there you go there but there was like the graphic designers were female [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4222">TS</a>]
01:10:25 ◼ ► and we hired another programmer who was female so like that I guess pretty good arrangers there a couple of other jobs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4225">TS</a>]
01:10:30 ◼ ► have been more like lopsided where you expect zero women programmers like one of my current job I don't think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4230">TS</a>]
01:10:37 ◼ ► fifty fifty but there's a lot of female programmers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4237">TS</a>]
01:10:42 ◼ ► And and the reason I brought this up about not knowing is like as far as I'm aware. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4242">TS</a>]
01:10:48 ◼ ► Like they're treated well like but that doesn't mean this is something bad not having that I don't know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4248">TS</a>]
01:10:53 ◼ ► and I'm constantly aware of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4253">TS</a>]
01:10:54 ◼ ► And even like we can all we all find ourselves anyone who is our age we'll find ourselves accidentally doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4254">TS</a>]
01:11:00 ◼ ► or saying something sexist because like Essentially that's how we were raised that's the culture that we were raised in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4260">TS</a>]
01:11:05 ◼ ► and it's a struggle every day to try to untrain yourself from these terrible things that were you know these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4265">TS</a>]
01:11:10 ◼ ► expectations and biases that we have. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4270">TS</a>]
01:11:14 ◼ ► But now they are hiring definitely seems to not discriminate based on anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4274">TS</a>]
01:11:19 ◼ ► and female developers as far as I'm concerned as far as it seems to be all my coworkers concerned are not treated any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4279">TS</a>]
01:11:25 ◼ ► differently than any other developer but there could be bad things happening somewhere that I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4285">TS</a>]
01:11:31 ◼ ► but I really hope not I haven't seen any of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4291">TS</a>]
01:11:34 ◼ ► but you know I worry about it sometimes because I read I mean maybe it's like you know going to Web empty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4294">TS</a>]
01:11:39 ◼ ► and finding other things can't to read all the stories you like make this happen in my company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4299">TS</a>]
01:11:43 ◼ ► and I guess that I have been a companies where bosses have been jerks like all you know gender not involved at all that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4303">TS</a>]
01:11:47 ◼ ► just terrible terrible situations between people and groups of people and I also don't see that in my current child [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4307">TS</a>]
01:11:55 ◼ ► but I'm always looking for you know it's a very tough thing and I'm. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4315">TS</a>]
01:12:00 ◼ ► Sitting here thinking to myself you know let's suppose that I start working with a female developer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4320">TS</a>]
01:12:05 ◼ ► and let's suppose she gets crapped on by either a peer or a boss [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4325">TS</a>]
01:12:10 ◼ ► and I don't think that that's technically justified in my sight and I can wear a coat isn't good enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4330">TS</a>]
01:12:15 ◼ ► or something like that and I think that that's incorrect that our code is fine like do I have the cajones to say dude [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4335">TS</a>]
01:12:22 ◼ ► or mortgage abortive transitions are they going to. That was intentional that time other than take whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4342">TS</a>]
01:12:31 ◼ ► Or was that one was intentional the other one was. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4351">TS</a>]
01:12:33 ◼ ► I love also they were using a word for testicles while talking about problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4353">TS</a>]
01:12:39 ◼ ► and I was through he was saying if he had the sentiment in Florida it's a fair point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4359">TS</a>]
01:12:44 ◼ ► but yeah you know what I mean like what I have what I have the gumption to say dude or lady [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4364">TS</a>]
01:12:50 ◼ ► or whoever boss person is you know that's not cool that's not right I don't know that I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4370">TS</a>]
01:12:55 ◼ ► and I'm not proud of that I'm not I'm not saying that because I'm excited about it I just I don't I'm very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4375">TS</a>]
01:13:01 ◼ ► That's another that's another thing to keep people from saying anything they like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4381">TS</a>]
01:13:05 ◼ ► but like by doing that it's like you know my aunt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4385">TS</a>]
01:13:08 ◼ ► and my infantilizing them by making it sound like they can't defend themselves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4388">TS</a>]
01:13:13 ◼ ► and come to the rescue which is also a sexist thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4393">TS</a>]
01:13:15 ◼ ► and so like people you know well meaning people are paralyzed by the fear that they're going to do something wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4395">TS</a>]
01:13:19 ◼ ► and sometimes they would have done something right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4399">TS</a>]
01:13:22 ◼ ► But like doing nothing is almost worse so like you need leeway on all sides like ever involved has to give everyone the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4402">TS</a>]
01:13:27 ◼ ► way I get to understand it if you did so they like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4407">TS</a>]
01:13:29 ◼ ► and really what you did was insulting the person didn't like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4409">TS</a>]
01:13:33 ◼ ► and I mean it's you know what at the back the old thing is judging people by their you know judging yourself by your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4413">TS</a>]
01:13:38 ◼ ► motivations by other people by their actions well they would see your actions and condemn you for it me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4418">TS</a>]
01:13:43 ◼ ► but you would judge yourself much better because your motivations were pure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4423">TS</a>]
01:13:46 ◼ ► and so the need understanding all around to make this situation go better like not to condemn people who are trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4426">TS</a>]
01:13:52 ◼ ► do the right thing but merely to explain to them how what they could have done differently or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4432">TS</a>]
01:13:57 ◼ ► but not so like that person is in case you know my enemy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4437">TS</a>]
01:14:02 ◼ ► and made it seem like I guess because myself made the problem worse they should explain that to you that you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4442">TS</a>]
01:14:07 ◼ ► you did made me feel like I can stand up for myself and diminish me in the eyes of my peers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4447">TS</a>]
01:14:10 ◼ ► but not say Casey is now my enemy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4450">TS</a>]
01:14:12 ◼ ► and I'm going to hate him because it's clear that what you're trying to do is helping. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4452">TS</a>]
01:14:15 ◼ ► Like that's that goes around in circles like just like a family comment threads and I think that it goes around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4455">TS</a>]
01:14:21 ◼ ► and around like a lot of times it's it's people who are on the same side fighting with each other about how best to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4461">TS</a>]
01:14:28 ◼ ► And that's that's one of the reasons why I don't usually join in discussions because I have enough people sniping me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4468">TS</a>]
01:14:37 ◼ ► from every possible angle of everything I write the last thing I need is to enter discussion on a topic where it is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4477">TS</a>]
01:14:44 ◼ ► hot button and there's and you write like if you even in a discussion trying to defend women or or you know or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4484">TS</a>]
01:14:54 ◼ ► or you know condemn sexism even in a discussion like that it's so easy to find it tough to find flaws in that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4494">TS</a>]
01:15:04 ◼ ► themselves are sexist or have some other problem. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4504">TS</a>]
01:15:07 ◼ ► And if you you know if you enter this this extremely contentious discussion you are taking a big risk specially if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4507">TS</a>]
01:15:18 ◼ ► don't believe me the who a lot of people you know love to hate. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4518">TS</a>]
01:15:22 ◼ ► And so it's to me it's not worth the risk of of entering a discussion where I am so intimidated to add anything to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4522">TS</a>]
01:15:29 ◼ ► discussion. And I also don't really think I have much constructive to add. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4529">TS</a>]
01:15:34 ◼ ► And so there's not a whole lot of upside there for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4534">TS</a>]
01:15:36 ◼ ► and there's a whole lot of downside because not only do not only am I probably not really going to help anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4536">TS</a>]
01:15:43 ◼ ► but I'm also probably to make myself look unintentionally terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4543">TS</a>]
01:15:49 ◼ ► Well I'm not saying you have to write about anything you don't want to read about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4549">TS</a>]
01:15:51 ◼ ► but one of the reasons you're probably going to unintentionally parables because like I said we all have these gender [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4551">TS</a>]
01:15:57 ◼ ► biases that are in US like you know and. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4557">TS</a>]
01:16:00 ◼ ► They're going to come out unintentionally in what you write and people are going to call you on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4560">TS</a>]
01:16:04 ◼ ► and that's not going to feel good about it doesn't mean they're wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4564">TS</a>]
01:16:07 ◼ ► It's difficult to react to it in the right way which again may be reason you just choose not to write about it which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4567">TS</a>]
01:16:13 ◼ ► But like sometimes I feel like at a certain point like if everybody does that if everybody's like well I know I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4573">TS</a>]
01:16:19 ◼ ► many internal biases and if I try to speak about in any way those biases will come out and people will call me on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4579">TS</a>]
01:16:25 ◼ ► and I'll have difficulty reacting in a nice way there for all say nothing if everybody did that they just just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4585">TS</a>]
01:16:29 ◼ ► continues the status quo and nothing gets better ever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4589">TS</a>]
01:16:32 ◼ ► And so like some people kind of have a fall on your sword to just you know be willing to if that's something you feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4592">TS</a>]
01:16:38 ◼ ► like you want to do and the second thing is by doing that by trying to say anything like we're trying to now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4598">TS</a>]
01:16:45 ◼ ► And inevitably like getting things wrong and revealing our own biases. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4605">TS</a>]
01:16:51 ◼ ► Part of the process of people yelling at you about that is making you more aware of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4611">TS</a>]
01:16:55 ◼ ► and working on them so the next time you don't make the same mistakes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4615">TS</a>]
01:16:57 ◼ ► and you kind of like like you would hope you would hope that you'd be improving yourself like you would be beating down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4617">TS</a>]
01:17:03 ◼ ► and I think even though I tend not to participate in these things I don't tweet about them really I don't participate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4623">TS</a>]
01:17:07 ◼ ► in the comment sections but I read a ton of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4627">TS</a>]
01:17:09 ◼ ► and I think just even just reading them man made me much more aware of the things that I do or think or say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4629">TS</a>]
01:17:16 ◼ ► or don't do or think or say that or that are making the situation worse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4636">TS</a>]
01:17:20 ◼ ► or that are upholding a corrupt system you know consciously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4640">TS</a>]
01:17:23 ◼ ► or otherwise i just by reading about them like reading basically reading other people getting getting attacked for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4643">TS</a>]
01:17:28 ◼ ► things that they say like I'm not a participant but I'm seeing it happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4648">TS</a>]
01:17:31 ◼ ► and what I'm coming away with is I might have said that same thing and I would have been just as wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4651">TS</a>]
01:17:36 ◼ ► and I agree with this person and I have to think about why that's the case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4656">TS</a>]
01:17:38 ◼ ► and like I said that's I think that's a growing experience I think that's one thing I get out of this that might be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4658">TS</a>]
01:17:43 ◼ ► good is like exposure to this the masses being exposed to this even though the masses are not participating just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4663">TS</a>]
01:17:49 ◼ ► The few people are yelling each other because baiting being exposed to this this debate online even the terrible form [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4669">TS</a>]
01:17:56 ◼ ► that it exists online will hopefully help everyone who reads it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4676">TS</a>]
01:18:00 ◼ ► To sort of move along the path towards whatever they think their goal is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4680">TS</a>]
01:18:03 ◼ ► I guess maybe it'll make the terrible people more terrible too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4683">TS</a>]
01:18:06 ◼ ► but I feel like in general it's going to it's going to help matters. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4686">TS</a>]
01:18:12 ◼ ► You know something that Marco said a minute ago kind of struck me you said you were intimidated to join the discussion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4692">TS</a>]
01:18:20 ◼ ► and I think that was a verbatim quote but it's not the spirit and I feel the same way completely but I can't help [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4700">TS</a>]
01:18:27 ◼ ► but sit here and think well what kind of a was in my where I'm intimidated to join the discussion. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4707">TS</a>]
01:18:33 ◼ ► I can't imagine how intimidated I would be to be the recipient of this kind of B.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4713">TS</a>]
01:18:40 ◼ ► and I'm being I completely agree like I'm a little uncomfortable about talking about this because I don't want to come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4720">TS</a>]
01:18:46 ◼ ► across as a sexist pig and I fear that I may. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4726">TS</a>]
01:18:50 ◼ ► And yet at the same time I'm getting so worked up over what is really an innocuous conversation in the grand scheme of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4730">TS</a>]
01:18:57 ◼ ► things I cannot fathom how uncomfortable I would be if my boss treated me like crap simply because I'm a dude. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4737">TS</a>]
01:19:04 ◼ ► I just I don't even want to think about it. It must be terrible. Good talk. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4744">TS</a>]
01:19:12 ◼ ► Thanks a lot to our three sponsors this way. And is that all that any better way than that. I guess not all right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4752">TS</a>]
01:19:20 ◼ ► They thought what responses this week Rahm objects see sharp smile and Squarespace and we will see you next week. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4760">TS</a>]
01:19:30 ◼ ► Now that the Dow was down until today from. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4770">TS</a>]
01:20:02 ◼ ► It's set to that list and John we can got to this question if you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4802">TS</a>]
01:20:33 ◼ ► but you had said you know you saw some of your own wrongs in some of the things you read Are there any examples you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4833">TS</a>]
01:20:39 ◼ ► willing to share. Because I'm trying to think of. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4839">TS</a>]
01:20:42 ◼ ► I know I think of things wrongly in many ways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4842">TS</a>]
01:20:46 ◼ ► but I can think of a specific example of where I know I'm wrong about something or or wherever read something lately [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4846">TS</a>]
01:20:52 ◼ ► and been like you probably done that too. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4852">TS</a>]
01:20:55 ◼ ► There any Tampa's you can think of where you've had that kind of reaction that you're willing to share. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4855">TS</a>]
01:20:59 ◼ ► Well the you wanted like terminology all of the words that we grew up using that are it's like oh it's political [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4859">TS</a>]
01:21:04 ◼ ► correctness now they're insulting like they're insulting to use those like I'm not going to you know like the anti [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4864">TS</a>]
01:21:10 ◼ ► homosexual slurs that we also have when we were kids when we didn't even know what that meant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4870">TS</a>]
01:21:15 ◼ ► And you will see people defending their their ability to say that they like Bush but I don't mean it that way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4875">TS</a>]
01:21:21 ◼ ► But like that's one of those things that once you learn how offensive it is your reaction shouldn't be like to double [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4881">TS</a>]
01:21:27 ◼ ► down and be like nope I'm going to keep saying it because I know I'm not on the phobic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4887">TS</a>]
01:21:30 ◼ ► and I don't mean it that way therefore I'm going to keep saying it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4890">TS</a>]
01:21:33 ◼ ► That's not that's not a mature and appropriate response and the same applies to women. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4893">TS</a>]
01:21:38 ◼ ► I mean I wonder if anyone will call you out for a friend to the woman you were with a young lady because that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4898">TS</a>]
01:21:44 ◼ ► insulting because it's implying she's you know inferior [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4904">TS</a>]
01:21:47 ◼ ► or like you know like how God would say I don't even think of it as he here it is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4907">TS</a>]
01:21:52 ◼ ► That's a perfect one because I'm trying to think of what what in my screwed up brain is the least offensive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4912">TS</a>]
01:21:58 ◼ ► and most innocent term and. Ology possible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4918">TS</a>]
01:22:00 ◼ ► Right and and like and it's because it's just because what we were conditioned to do growing up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4920">TS</a>]
01:22:05 ◼ ► and that's not an excuse is just this is an explanation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4925">TS</a>]
01:22:07 ◼ ► and so the idea is to become aware of these things that we do just out of habit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4927">TS</a>]
01:22:11 ◼ ► and how how they positioned the people who are on the receiving end of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4931">TS</a>]
01:22:15 ◼ ► and seeing other people called on it may make you think I say that a lot too don't I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4935">TS</a>]
01:22:20 ◼ ► and I should think I should think of something else that I can substitute for that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4940">TS</a>]
01:22:23 ◼ ► Or you know a lot of that you see on line is people like all the political correctness police in these certain words [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4943">TS</a>]
01:22:29 ◼ ► that you can't say or whatever and then obviously you can take a name to exclaim and become ridiculous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4949">TS</a>]
01:22:34 ◼ ► and call everybody gyno Americans instead of women because women is insulting to that as men in the name like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4954">TS</a>]
01:22:41 ◼ ► obviously you know crazy with that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4961">TS</a>]
01:22:43 ◼ ► but the thing is like people whatever people say like automatically because their parents said it because they said it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4963">TS</a>]
01:22:48 ◼ ► when they were saying because some people would defend to the death [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4968">TS</a>]
01:22:51 ◼ ► and they'll be like nope I got to be able to say that forever I mean I know how I mean it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4971">TS</a>]
01:22:56 ◼ ► I'm nice person I'm not mean to women [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4976">TS</a>]
01:22:59 ◼ ► or whatever they're for you trying to make me not say that is impairing my freedom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4979">TS</a>]
01:23:03 ◼ ► and it's political correctness gone awry and it's like you know that's that's not a fight worth having. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4983">TS</a>]
01:23:09 ◼ ► That is you're on the wrong side of that it just doesn't it doesn't matter how you mean it you're working it you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4989">TS</a>]
01:23:16 ◼ ► working in the larger context here you know if everybody calls the whim of the office girls [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/4996">TS</a>]
01:23:22 ◼ ► and you just do that instinctively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5002">TS</a>]
01:23:23 ◼ ► and you don't mean in a bad way to Israel I don't like that thing is it has an unconscious effect on you because if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5003">TS</a>]
01:23:28 ◼ ► can still refer to them as girls even though if you think you don't mean it will shape the way you think about them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5008">TS</a>]
01:23:33 ◼ ► There are you know they are younger they are children of the men of the office run things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5013">TS</a>]
01:23:38 ◼ ► and the girls in the office are just you know like it will shape your thinking just by saying the words. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5018">TS</a>]
01:23:42 ◼ ► and so it's worth actually making a concerted effort to change the way you speak about it because it will change the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5022">TS</a>]
01:23:49 ◼ ► way you think about it not because someone's making you not because they're taking away your freedom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5029">TS</a>]
01:23:52 ◼ ► or because political correctness like it's just basic self-improvement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5032">TS</a>]
01:23:56 ◼ ► and I mean I could think of many more examples but like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5036">TS</a>]
01:24:00 ◼ ► And you can keep going on to farther and farther reaches with not just not his gender issues but homosexuality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5040">TS</a>]
01:24:04 ◼ ► and race and everything else. Everything that is some difference between us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5044">TS</a>]
01:24:09 ◼ ► Like you can trace all these things down and inevitably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5049">TS</a>]
01:24:12 ◼ ► and all is there something we're doing that we could do better that is hurting these marginalized groups. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5052">TS</a>]
01:24:17 ◼ ► So what was the what would you say was the proper term that I should have used women. Fair enough. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5057">TS</a>]
01:24:23 ◼ ► That's a fair answer I don't know I for some reason I feel like but you can feel like you shouldn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5063">TS</a>]
01:24:28 ◼ ► It's not that we know you didn't mean anything by it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5068">TS</a>]
01:24:30 ◼ ► but like this is one of those cases where the macro just comes out of your head and like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5070">TS</a>]
01:24:35 ◼ ► and the fact that you are second guessing yourself like that so you get into the past like oh what am I supposed to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5075">TS</a>]
01:24:40 ◼ ► because you're just you know the pet you're in Granger's used to saying something else takes actual concerted effort to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5080">TS</a>]
01:24:45 ◼ ► stop saying one thing and say something different and you're going to slip up and like you just. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5085">TS</a>]
01:24:49 ◼ ► But it's like that's not a reason just to double down so I'll never try to train myself at all on the same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5089">TS</a>]
01:24:55 ◼ ► forever and if you try to stop me you're bad. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5095">TS</a>]
01:24:57 ◼ ► I mean that's that's I think what makes it so hard is because people who mean perfectly well can so easily say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5097">TS</a>]
01:25:07 ◼ ► something or think of something in a way that really isn't you know perfectly fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5107">TS</a>]
01:25:13 ◼ ► or neutral as as you intend to be you know like like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5113">TS</a>]
01:25:17 ◼ ► when I wrote my my review a Vesper I use the word balls all over the place. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5117">TS</a>]
01:25:23 ◼ ► It takes balls to do blah blah blah and I got a few comments from people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5123">TS</a>]
01:25:29 ◼ ► Most most of the comments on the article were about you know of course I would write this because this is John Gruber's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5129">TS</a>]
01:25:36 ◼ ► app and you know of course athletes all of Africa and all you gotta do is write an app and you charge five dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5136">TS</a>]
01:25:41 ◼ ► and the younger brother that's fine for him. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5141">TS</a>]
01:25:44 ◼ ► You know that with most of my feedback which of course is easy to disregard but I got I got I think one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5144">TS</a>]
01:25:50 ◼ ► or two comments about how the word balls was kind of unintentionally sexist because that's will only men have boy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5150">TS</a>]
01:26:00 ◼ ► All you know and that made me think. I didn't at the time think it was worth rewriting the whole article. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5160">TS</a>]
01:26:09 ◼ ► Let's not use the word balls but it definitely made me stop using it like that in the future. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5169">TS</a>]
01:26:16 ◼ ► I'll say it like when you say unintentionally sexist unintentional and that sexism [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5176">TS</a>]
01:26:20 ◼ ► and gender relations were not in your mind when you wrote it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5180">TS</a>]
01:26:23 ◼ ► and of course is a common saying that we all know that we've probably been using our lives right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5183">TS</a>]
01:26:27 ◼ ► but that that term you're not responsible for the sexism that term [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5187">TS</a>]
01:26:31 ◼ ► but the person who first came up with that term you can be damn sure that sexism was one hundred percent part of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5191">TS</a>]
01:26:35 ◼ ► They're trying to say men are tough men are brave men do things that are brave so it takes balls it takes This is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5195">TS</a>]
01:26:41 ◼ ► organised this organ in male's bodies that women don't have that really had nothing to do with toughness at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5201">TS</a>]
01:26:46 ◼ ► but nevertheless it's you know Well men have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5206">TS</a>]
01:26:48 ◼ ► and women don't women are wimpy that like it is one hundred percent a sexist term. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5208">TS</a>]
01:26:52 ◼ ► But it's so ingrained in the culture that a certain point it just loses all that sexism [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5212">TS</a>]
01:26:56 ◼ ► and just become part of the background noise. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5216">TS</a>]
01:26:58 ◼ ► But that part of the background noise is yes it takes balls to whatever and you see women co-opting it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5218">TS</a>]
01:27:04 ◼ ► and saying that they have baldness becomes a generic term or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5224">TS</a>]
01:27:06 ◼ ► but what I was think about that it's like All right so I didn't mean it that way but it totally does mean that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5226">TS</a>]
01:27:14 ◼ ► and doesn't hurt me to use a different term and you know the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5234">TS</a>]
01:27:17 ◼ ► and I was a few others like you know maybe I'm not going to go back and rewrite the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5237">TS</a>]
01:27:23 ◼ ► but like in the future now maybe you'll think twice about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5243">TS</a>]
01:27:27 ◼ ► I guess again you know just participate in these things if you think I'd comment on it I saw people those comments I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5247">TS</a>]
01:27:34 ◼ ► when I find myself having to say that like you know it if it will make you think well it's no skin off my back to use a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5254">TS</a>]
01:27:41 ◼ ► different term there's plenty of other cliches in analogies and words that I can use that mean the same thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5261">TS</a>]
01:27:47 ◼ ► Why don't I not use the one that is demeaning to women [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5267">TS</a>]
01:27:51 ◼ ► or you know exclude them from the realm of having bravery you know I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5271">TS</a>]
01:27:56 ◼ ► and you know I think don't go back to my earlier question of like not really knowing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5276">TS</a>]
01:28:00 ◼ ► What I really could do I think that was a big part of that's the kind of thing everybody can do is just the everyday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5280">TS</a>]
01:28:07 ◼ ► basics of the cavalry and perception and assumptions that that we can you know get caught out occasionally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5287">TS</a>]
01:28:14 ◼ ► and then you know edit ourselves to you know think about that in the future to be like you know actually you know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5294">TS</a>]
01:28:22 ◼ ► or has one of the Sary baggage I could use as alternative instead it's better like that I think is something everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5302">TS</a>]
01:28:28 ◼ ► can do. And unfortunately you know these are the kind of things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5308">TS</a>]
01:28:32 ◼ ► Usually day to day most people won't get called out on things like this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5312">TS</a>]
01:28:36 ◼ ► Well the thing is like you're not going to call the people around right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5316">TS</a>]
01:28:39 ◼ ► but your grandchildren will call those same people. It's like an hour when we look back at like T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5319">TS</a>]
01:28:45 ◼ ► and they just are like even Mad Men like you just look at it like sex was they were like that's exactly how we're going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5325">TS</a>]
01:28:50 ◼ ► to look at people fifty years from now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5330">TS</a>]
01:28:52 ◼ ► Like it doesn't change you know the the the amount of sexism that we have to come back from is so massive that for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5332">TS</a>]
01:28:57 ◼ ► millennia people are going to look back three or four [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5337">TS</a>]
01:28:59 ◼ ► or five generations ago about sex as they were like you can make a show about it you know Mad Men is part of Mad Men [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5339">TS</a>]
01:29:06 ◼ ► Boy can you believe we were ever like that I was so long ago they're going to say exactly the same things about us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5346">TS</a>]
01:29:10 ◼ ► And since we can't do that since from our perspective you think it takes balls it's like that's not in the front of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5350">TS</a>]
01:29:17 ◼ ► and no one else is almost no one else reading it had a thought in their head about like oh that's a sexist thing to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5357">TS</a>]
01:29:22 ◼ ► but in reality it is and sixty seven years from now some of those back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5362">TS</a>]
01:29:25 ◼ ► or in the blog post Look look how casually sexist this guy was like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5365">TS</a>]
01:29:31 ◼ ► And optimistically speaking of that right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5371">TS</a>]
01:29:33 ◼ ► and it's not like it's just a difference of perspective like it takes time for that to be sort of you know conditioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5373">TS</a>]
01:29:40 ◼ ► out of people like we need to stop saying it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5380">TS</a>]
01:29:42 ◼ ► Stop saying these things make it unacceptable to say them amongst our friends like all the terrible things that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5382">TS</a>]
01:29:48 ◼ ► when we were little boys like we're stuck living with that like we have to work to get that out of our brains [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5388">TS</a>]
01:29:53 ◼ ► but hopefully our children will not do those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5393">TS</a>]
01:29:56 ◼ ► or the different things that are bad you know we hope that we're making progress. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5396">TS</a>]
01:30:00 ◼ ► I think we are because of you always look back fifty one hundred two hundred years like people seem to get more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5400">TS</a>]
01:30:06 ◼ ► terrible more sort of like just under volved and sexist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5406">TS</a>]
01:30:12 ◼ ► and racist like that's how it should be as we go back in time people should look more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5412">TS</a>]
01:30:15 ◼ ► and more terrible in terms their practice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5415">TS</a>]
01:30:16 ◼ ► and the Enlightenment is realizing we are exactly going to look exactly the same to people multiple generations from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5416">TS</a>]
01:30:24 ◼ ► and so you know you just try to try to do the best you can try to go as far forward as you possibly can in fact if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5424">TS</a>]
01:30:29 ◼ ► not farther forward than most people that you're living with you're probably doing something wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5429">TS</a>]
01:30:34 ◼ ► You're you're bordering right on the fine line politics that that scary. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5434">TS</a>]
01:30:40 ◼ ► That we will talk about this and I think politics there's plenty of people on both sides of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5440">TS</a>]
01:30:47 ◼ ► Whereas sexism like the reason we see is coming up on the web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5447">TS</a>]
01:30:51 ◼ ► and everything is like historically there's just been so little voice to this like it's just been in the background [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5451">TS</a>]
01:30:58 ◼ ► and it's like well you know everything's sexist So what you can do about it now I think more people speaking up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5458">TS</a>]
01:31:05 ◼ ► and getting support from other people like this is becoming more it still amazes me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5465">TS</a>]
01:31:09 ◼ ► when like some company will like some in their P.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5469">TS</a>]
01:31:12 ◼ ► Department will issue some terrible sexist statement it's like don't you read the Internet like even if you are kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5472">TS</a>]
01:31:17 ◼ ► it's like this person if your job is P.R. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5477">TS</a>]
01:31:19 ◼ ► Like this you understand this is a thing like this so little self-awareness like the worst the worst offenders are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5479">TS</a>]
01:31:27 ◼ ► And so I hope that increased communication of the Internet and everything is making it spreading awareness of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5487">TS</a>]
01:31:33 ◼ ► and improving matters across the board at an accelerated rate because they just seem like I mean you guys weren't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5493">TS</a>]
01:31:40 ◼ ► watching movies an eighth of like the movie working girl I know that it exists. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5500">TS</a>]
01:31:46 ◼ ► I have never seen those like Melanie Griffith or maybe Harrison Ford and I'm getting this all wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5506">TS</a>]
01:31:50 ◼ ► but I would like that have these female empowerment movies in the eighty's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5510">TS</a>]
01:31:53 ◼ ► and now it's like this was the female empowerment movement this is Paraguay factors than it's just like insulting. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5513">TS</a>]
01:32:00 ◼ ► A women but it was like You go girl deuce of a row because you can have a job or wear a suit to Michael [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5520">TS</a>]
01:32:05 ◼ ► and that was progress back then but like you know it's not even a long ago and you look at it now as like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5525">TS</a>]
01:32:10 ◼ ► and I have a feeling that like because those type of movies were not subject to sort of the you know the feedback from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5530">TS</a>]
01:32:20 ◼ ► the masses in real time in large volume like it was movie studios [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5540">TS</a>]
01:32:23 ◼ ► and it send it out to the you know like it just we weren't all there to participate so it seemed like we couldn't we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5543">TS</a>]
01:32:28 ◼ ► couldn't do sort of like the the the right compile run debug iterate whatever cycle you know what I mean. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5548">TS</a>]
01:32:35 ◼ ► Like that's like oh so much faster now with us yelling at thing yelling at each other in real time about every little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5555">TS</a>]
01:32:41 ◼ ► thing and even though that whole cycle seems silly and annoying and just like people want to ignore it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5561">TS</a>]
01:32:45 ◼ ► or whatever I think that cycle the fact in the iteration is faster is in increasing the rate of improvement. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5565">TS</a>]
01:32:54 ◼ ► To talk that is a guitar you know him. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5574">TS</a>]
01:32:56 ◼ ► Yeah I kind of I know you meant that genuine and I kind of regret hitting the brakes a little bit earlier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5576">TS</a>]
01:33:02 ◼ ► but it's just it's a just a field of landmines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5582">TS</a>]
01:33:07 ◼ ► and I don't know I'm sure you should you should feel happy that not happy but you should be both disappointed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5587">TS</a>]
01:33:13 ◼ ► and relieved that I'm assuming like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5593">TS</a>]
01:33:17 ◼ ► when I look at my Twitter followers like the thing where you can look at your analytics. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5597">TS</a>]
01:33:20 ◼ ► What percentage of your Twitter followers are female [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5600">TS</a>]
01:33:22 ◼ ► and like almost none of my Twitter followers are female minds like ninety six percent men or something like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5602">TS</a>]
01:33:30 ◼ ► and I want I wonder about the listeners to the show like what their rates are are their ratio similar to our follower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5610">TS</a>]
01:33:36 ◼ ► accounts that you know what kind of feedback e-mail do we get our fifty percent of people listen to the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5616">TS</a>]
01:33:42 ◼ ► and then but but ninety percent of the feedback we get is for men. That seems unlikely to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdT7QXJ4/5622">TS</a>]