Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 610. It's made possible by our friends at Squarespace.

00:00:15 ◼   ► I am your annual chairman, Stephen Hackett, and I am joined by everyone's friend, Mike Hurley.

00:00:23 ◼   ► I am everybody's friend. Hello, I am Mike Hurley, and I have the pleasure of introducing the keynote chairman, Federico Vatici.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hello, I'm nobody's friend.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Wow, I was lonely at the top.

00:00:34 ◼   ► That's what happens when you're the two-time keynote chairman, you know, the reigning defendant.

00:00:40 ◼   ► You get no friends. That's a lonely job.

00:00:42 ◼   ► It's a tough job, but somebody's got to do it.

00:00:45 ◼   ► And you are doing it. You are, in fact, doing it.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Speaking of which, so we had a constitutional convention on the last week's episode where we changed some rules for the Rickies,

00:00:54 ◼   ► and Andrew wrote in and said, there is a flaw with the bonus pick changes.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I don't like this framing, to begin with.

00:01:00 ◼   ► I don't like this framing.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Andrew has decided, apparently, that there is a flaw.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Well, I don't agree.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Anyway, by not rolling over to the next year, there is now an incentive for your annual picks to all come true before a September or October event.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Anything that happens in Q4 is disincentivized because you do not get a bonus pick you can actually use.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Perhaps allow carryover, but they must be used in the first event of the new year.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Andrew, have you seen Q4 in Apple News for the past few years?

00:01:30 ◼   ► Like, have you seen the stuff that happens in November, December?

00:01:33 ◼   ► I mean, that was my first thought.

00:01:34 ◼   ► I was like, wait, the phone's in September, but a lot of years they do have an October event.

00:01:38 ◼   ► It's like Mac and iPad stuff.

00:01:40 ◼   ► But also, this is like, I think I thought I mentioned this, but anyway, I have this thought, right?

00:01:47 ◼   ► Which is like, the September event is easy to predict.

00:01:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Right?

00:01:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:53 ◼   ► So, that is like picks on easy mode for the annual Rickys.

00:01:58 ◼   ► So, you need to pick, if you want the bonus picks, you have to go a bit more ambitious.

00:02:03 ◼   ► That's what I think.

00:02:05 ◼   ► But anyway, no, I'm happy with it.

00:02:07 ◼   ► I think that that actually shows that there is a bit of an issue because more ambitious picks would be potentially that October event.

00:02:15 ◼   ► I actually agree with Andrew.

00:02:17 ◼   ► I think we have created this like, this like black hole at the end of the year that no one can escape from.

00:02:23 ◼   ► Oh, well.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:25 ◼   ► So, we're going to leave it?

00:02:27 ◼   ► Are we leaving it?

00:02:27 ◼   ► I mean, what, so what do you want to do?

00:02:31 ◼   ► You want to roll over the picks for all of eternity?

00:02:33 ◼   ► Like, what are we talking about?

00:02:34 ◼   ► No, I think what Andrew's right, like, they roll over to the first event of the year.

00:02:38 ◼   ► So, WWDC.

00:02:40 ◼   ► I mean, that is the problem if there's not a March event, I guess.

00:02:43 ◼   ► And then, they've so seldom is.

00:02:45 ◼   ► So, okay.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I think you've got to just cut it off somewhere.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:49 ◼   ► I think we should just run it in the way that we have predicted.

00:02:52 ◼   ► And if there are issues, if there are issues, one, Andrew, you know, gets to walk around saying he was right.

00:03:00 ◼   ► But we can deal with it.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Like, we need to deal with it, I guess.

00:03:03 ◼   ► We need to experience it, which will be a year from now.

00:03:04 ◼   ► Yeah, but also, we're currently experiencing it.

00:03:07 ◼   ► In the next event, we all have bonus picks.

00:03:11 ◼   ► Yeah, that's probably true.

00:03:12 ◼   ► I haven't actually looked.

00:03:13 ◼   ► No, we do.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Oh, we do.

00:03:14 ◼   ► I did look.

00:03:15 ◼   ► You both have two and I have one.

00:03:16 ◼   ► Yes, I graded it.

00:03:17 ◼   ► It's not.

00:03:18 ◼   ► It's obviously working already.

00:03:20 ◼   ► Yes.

00:03:21 ◼   ► I think it's fine.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:24 ◼   ► I just, I thought, I thought it was.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Oh, Mike got really upset, though.

00:03:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:29 ◼   ► Because I don't like someone saying there is a floor.

00:03:31 ◼   ► You know what, Andrew?

00:03:32 ◼   ► Andrew, you're a floor.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Wow.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:36 ◼   ► And there goes Andrew's membership, straight out the window.

00:03:39 ◼   ► Well, you know, you got to win some to lose some.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Wow.

00:03:43 ◼   ► I think that's how that works.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:45 ◼   ► I thought it was a point worth discussing.

00:03:47 ◼   ► Andrew, you're not a fraud.

00:03:48 ◼   ► It is a point worth discussing.

00:03:49 ◼   ► We've discussed it, but I think it's fine as it is.

00:03:53 ◼   ► And if it isn't, we'll just tweak it because nothing's done forever.

00:03:56 ◼   ► I don't want to create like a more, like, so if we're doing rolling over, we just added

00:04:01 ◼   ► a new complication.

00:04:02 ◼   ► And it was supposed, we were supposed to be simplifying this because nobody liked the

00:04:07 ◼   ► way that the previous bonus pick thing was working.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:10 ◼   ► Well, now nobody's a strong word.

00:04:13 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:13 ◼   ► All three of us in the last episode said we didn't like it.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:17 ◼   ► And that it was too confusing.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:20 ◼   ► But like, okay, sure.

00:04:22 ◼   ► All right.

00:04:22 ◼   ► We'll leave, we'll leave it as is.

00:04:23 ◼   ► I mean, nobody is in us three, you know, not the Andrews of the world.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Right.

00:04:29 ◼   ► You got to lay off Andrew, man.

00:04:30 ◼   ► Come on.

00:04:31 ◼   ► I will not.

00:04:31 ◼   ► Do you know this Andrew personally?

00:04:33 ◼   ► Like, do you have an accent?

00:04:34 ◼   ► I might.

00:04:34 ◼   ► I know some Andrews.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:36 ◼   ► I don't know the, I don't know which Andrew it is.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Wow.

00:04:40 ◼   ► I assume you don't like those Andrews.

00:04:43 ◼   ► No, I do.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Oh, you do?

00:04:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:47 ◼   ► All right.

00:04:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Sorry, Andrew, but thanks for the suggestion.

00:04:51 ◼   ► Thank you for the suggestion, Andrew.

00:04:53 ◼   ► I appreciate your love and care of the Rookies Constitution.

00:04:55 ◼   ► That's much, that's much better after an intervention from PR.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Thank you, Mike.

00:05:01 ◼   ► Follow up.

00:05:02 ◼   ► Federico, you, you laid a trap for yourself in the past that you fell into.

00:05:08 ◼   ► I did.

00:05:10 ◼   ► You did.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Yes, I did.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Yes, I absolutely did.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Well, can you blame me though?

00:05:15 ◼   ► So.

00:05:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:17 ◼   ► No.

00:05:17 ◼   ► I blame you.

00:05:18 ◼   ► And let me tell you why.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Let me tell you why.

00:05:20 ◼   ► It's not like John picked up your phone and did this.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I mean.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Let me tell you, let me explain this concept to you.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Sometimes, many times in life, if you have enough conviction and self-esteem, you can be rightfully

00:05:31 ◼   ► wrong.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:32 ◼   ► Have you ever been rightfully wrong?

00:05:34 ◼   ► Let me tell you why.

00:05:34 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:05:34 ◼   ► You need to lay it out for me and then I decide.

00:05:37 ◼   ► All right.

00:05:37 ◼   ► So, so we're looking at Siri AI and we're talking about Siri AI.

00:05:42 ◼   ► And I mentioned how for me, it's kind of working, but some things, random things, strangely enough,

00:05:50 ◼   ► are not.

00:05:51 ◼   ► Like, for example, I can create reminders, but I cannot fetch my reminders.

00:05:55 ◼   ► I cannot find my reminders due today.

00:05:58 ◼   ► And same with my calendar events and same with some apps, but not others.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And so this has been going on for the first two betas of iOS 27 happens again, sometimes

00:06:11 ◼   ► on the iPhone, other times on the iPad.

00:06:13 ◼   ► And I think, well, that's very strange.

00:06:15 ◼   ► And Apple tells me, oh, look, that's a, that's a, that's a bug.

00:06:19 ◼   ► And we're working on it.

00:06:20 ◼   ► And we're like, okay, sure.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Now I get this message from, from a person on, from Paul on Mastodon saying, hey, this

00:06:27 ◼   ► is going to sound totally strange, but I think I figured it out.

00:06:31 ◼   ► I think I know what's happening with, with, with you being unable to find reminders and

00:06:37 ◼   ► calendar events in Siri AI.

00:06:39 ◼   ► And he tells me, take a look at settings.

00:06:43 ◼   ► So open the settings app and then don't go in the Siri section, go in the separate

00:06:49 ◼   ► search section and see if by any chance years ago, you may have disabled the toggle under

00:06:58 ◼   ► reminders or under calendars that says show content in search and try turn it on again and

00:07:08 ◼   ► see if that actually fixes things for you, because it did for me, because I was having the exact

00:07:13 ◼   ► same issue as you.

00:07:14 ◼   ► And I remember that years ago when spotlight on iOS was really bad and slow, I turned off

00:07:21 ◼   ► some sources to speed it up and make it better.

00:07:24 ◼   ► But now that option was conflicting with Siri AI in, in 20, in iOS 2017.

00:07:30 ◼   ► And I thought, well, that's confusing, but sure, I'll try.

00:07:35 ◼   ► And I did.

00:07:36 ◼   ► And sure enough, it actually fixed it.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Now, let me explain why I'm rightfully wrong.

00:07:43 ◼   ► First of all, this was a solution to a problem that was affecting me years ago.

00:07:50 ◼   ► And so I had to find a way to make spotlight better on iOS by disabling some sources.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Also, the design of those sources in spotlight at the time was terrible.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Now, additionally, explain to me the thinking or the design or lack thereof, I suppose, of

00:08:15 ◼   ► having, in iOS 2017, two separate...

00:08:20 ◼   ► You keep calling it 2017, which is brilliant.

00:08:23 ◼   ► 27, 27, it's...

00:08:25 ◼   ► 2017.

00:08:26 ◼   ► These years are so confusing.

00:08:28 ◼   ► Why did they stop calling iOS 18, 19, 20?

00:08:31 ◼   ► That was so much better.

00:08:31 ◼   ► That's a take.

00:08:33 ◼   ► Explain to me why, in iOS 27, we have settings, search, and then a list of apps, with a toggle

00:08:47 ◼   ► called show content in search, and another called show app in search.

00:08:52 ◼   ► But then you also have, down below, settings, Siri.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Then if you scroll down, you have app access.

00:09:01 ◼   ► And then if you open the same app, like Calendar, you have five toggles.

00:09:07 ◼   ► Learn from this app.

00:09:10 ◼   ► Show in app.

00:09:11 ◼   ► Show on home screen.

00:09:12 ◼   ► Suggest app and suggest your notifications.

00:09:15 ◼   ► Why are...

00:09:18 ◼   ► Why is a toggle that controls Siri AI behavior tucked under search?

00:09:28 ◼   ► Well, it's because of the index, right?

00:09:30 ◼   ► So, this is not confusing to you at all?

00:09:34 ◼   ► I don't say it's not confusing, but I'm answering your question.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Now, tell me what you think.

00:09:38 ◼   ► Tell me, do you think it's good design?

00:09:40 ◼   ► No, I don't think it's good design.

00:09:45 ◼   ► I don't think it's good design.

00:09:46 ◼   ► But I do...

00:09:47 ◼   ► It is interesting to me that you're just like, this is not my fault at all.

00:09:52 ◼   ► It's not my fault.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:09:53 ◼   ► It's not my fault.

00:09:53 ◼   ► All right.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Sure.

00:09:54 ◼   ► It's not my fault.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Imagine if you...

00:09:59 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:10:00 ◼   ► What's something dumb that your government has done, Mike?

00:10:03 ◼   ► I mean, besides Brexit.

00:10:06 ◼   ► I don't really want to play that game, if I'm being honest with you.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Because whenever I say, Federico, it's not the thing that people want me to say.

00:10:13 ◼   ► Imagine that you had to find a workaround to something that was terrible, but you found

00:10:19 ◼   ► a workaround years ago.

00:10:21 ◼   ► And now, for totally unrelated reasons that you could have not foreseen at the time, that

00:10:26 ◼   ► workaround was coming back to bite you.

00:10:27 ◼   ► Oh, I'm absolutely falling into these traps.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Yes, yes, yes.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Like, look, it's not my fault the spotlight was horrible years ago, but now you cannot tell

00:10:34 ◼   ► me that it's my fault if CI is, for some reason, depending on that toggle...

00:10:38 ◼   ► I mean, what should happen?

00:10:39 ◼   ► That is also in the wrong section.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Is the system should ask you, right?

00:10:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:44 ◼   ► The system should ask me again.

00:10:46 ◼   ► Be like, hey, I see that you asked for reminders, but actually that access is the

00:10:51 ◼   ► disabled.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Simple as that.

00:10:53 ◼   ► I cannot access this.

00:10:55 ◼   ► Would you like me to turn it on?

00:10:56 ◼   ► Yes.

00:10:57 ◼   ► I have a question for you, Federico, about your screenshot.

00:10:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:00 ◼   ► So you have a reminder in this screenshot, which says, more John feedback for archive.

00:11:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:07 ◼   ► There's a lot of text in this reminder.

00:11:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:10 ◼   ► You know what I do sometimes?

00:11:12 ◼   ► John sends me many messages every day.

00:11:16 ◼   ► And you make him pay for it.

00:11:17 ◼   ► No.

00:11:19 ◼   ► I just take the whole message, copy the whole text, and I attach it to the notes field of

00:11:24 ◼   ► a reminder.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Right.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Oh, so this is John sent this.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:29 ◼   ► I thought that this was like, this, you know, you were like, I have some thoughts I need to

00:11:34 ◼   ► put into this, to this reminder.

00:11:35 ◼   ► And I'm going to give it to John later.

00:11:36 ◼   ► I take the whole iMessage that John sends me, and I turn all of that into a reminder.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Okay.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:44 ◼   ► I mean, it's the only way to deal with John.

00:11:46 ◼   ► John, I don't know.

00:11:48 ◼   ► No.

00:11:48 ◼   ► That's the only way.

00:11:49 ◼   ► It's not a criticism.

00:11:50 ◼   ► He has many ideas, many thoughts, many comments, especially when he's testing something.

00:11:55 ◼   ► He's very nitpicky.

00:11:57 ◼   ► And the only way to deal with the, is that a word, like nitpickiness?

00:12:03 ◼   ► It is.

00:12:03 ◼   ► Of it all.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Nitiness, pickiness.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:06 ◼   ► It's to take the whole thing and save it somewhere.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:10 ◼   ► Mm-mm.

00:12:11 ◼   ► Did you deal with this feedback?

00:12:14 ◼   ► I did, and I, I don't know if the changes are live, but I did send the updated archive

00:12:20 ◼   ► to our developer.

00:12:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:21 ◼   ► More feedback for John.

00:12:23 ◼   ► More.

00:12:24 ◼   ► I have some feedback.

00:12:26 ◼   ► For John?

00:12:27 ◼   ► So, for, no, for everyone.

00:12:29 ◼   ► So, I was, I was on LinkedIn the other day.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Hey, stop right there.

00:12:35 ◼   ► Stop right there.

00:12:36 ◼   ► Why?

00:12:37 ◼   ► I'm trying.

00:12:38 ◼   ► For what?

00:12:39 ◼   ► Are you leaving?

00:12:40 ◼   ► I'm just trying to be a business person, you know?

00:12:44 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:44 ◼   ► Sometimes you've got to post business things on LinkedIn so that other business people know

00:12:48 ◼   ► you're a business person.

00:12:49 ◼   ► I actually can't judge.

00:12:51 ◼   ► I'm serving on a, a board at my, um, university.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Serving on a board?

00:12:59 ◼   ► I am.

00:12:59 ◼   ► You guys are all so fancy.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:01 ◼   ► And we, part of what we do is we, uh, we give out awards and, and we give out scholarship

00:13:08 ◼   ► money to journalism students.

00:13:10 ◼   ► Is this how we get you to a doctorate?

00:13:12 ◼   ► Is this how we do it?

00:13:13 ◼   ► So, so here's the thing.

00:13:14 ◼   ► The thing that I had to post is like a, okay, please share this with your network, uh, was

00:13:19 ◼   ► the form to, to nominate people for distinguished journalism alumni, which is an award I desperately

00:13:26 ◼   ► want from the University of Memphis.

00:13:28 ◼   ► And now I think I can't earn it because I'm on the board.

00:13:30 ◼   ► It's hard to say.

00:13:31 ◼   ► Oh, that sucks.

00:13:32 ◼   ► I may have overshot, but I would take an honorary doctorate, obviously.

00:13:35 ◼   ► So.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Obviously.

00:13:36 ◼   ► Who wouldn't?

00:13:37 ◼   ► The University of Memphis, if you're listening, and I know you are, hit your boy up.

00:13:41 ◼   ► We have a big medal.

00:13:44 ◼   ► So I post things on LinkedIn.

00:13:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:45 ◼   ► This is how I, now I've, this is something I've been trying to do more of recently.

00:13:49 ◼   ► While on LinkedIn, I was served a post from someone who is a creative director at Apple

00:13:57 ◼   ► who was sharing their CanLions entry for the MacBook Neo TikTok campaign.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Wait, what?

00:14:03 ◼   ► Can you repeat that sentence?

00:14:04 ◼   ► I'm going to give you, I already knew this was going to be a problem, so I'm going to give

00:14:08 ◼   ► you some context, right?

00:14:09 ◼   ► CanLions is a thing which has now become something else because now like everybody on Instagram

00:14:17 ◼   ► TikTok was at CanLions, which they're now turning into a festival of creativity, it's just brands

00:14:25 ◼   ► activating, but CanLions, historically, it is an advertising award ceremony, like a ceremony

00:14:33 ◼   ► and brands can submit their best advertising campaigns to CanLions to hopefully win an award

00:14:44 ◼   ► because people want awards.

00:14:45 ◼   ► Work I have been a part of once in my life did win a CanLion, but I had already left the

00:14:51 ◼   ► company, which was very frustrating because I would have loved to have gotten that because

00:14:55 ◼   ► that was my idea.

00:14:56 ◼   ► But anyway, this person who's a creative director at Apple shared on LinkedIn their nomination

00:15:03 ◼   ► slide, you know, because you put together like a one sheet presentation thing for the MacBook

00:15:09 ◼   ► Neo that they were a part of.

00:15:10 ◼   ► So they submitted it to CanLions to win a CanLion.

00:15:14 ◼   ► In the entry is the following quote, TLDR became the number one citation in TikTok's AI search

00:15:24 ◼   ► summary and one brand new internet icon in quote Lil Finder Guy.

00:15:33 ◼   ► So this is the first thing I've been able to find of someone at Apple referring to the

00:15:40 ◼   ► Finder mascot by a name.

00:15:42 ◼   ► Now, they put the name in quotes, right?

00:15:46 ◼   ► Because they don't actually refer to the character by that name in anywhere else in this presentation,

00:15:52 ◼   ► except in referencing to what the internet calls this character.

00:15:57 ◼   ► So this is the closest I've gotten to my plea of Apple, name the mascot.

00:16:03 ◼   ► So just so you confirm me, we are giving out awards to TikTok campaigns?

00:16:09 ◼   ► It's an advertising campaign.

00:16:11 ◼   ► So yeah, give an award to any advertising campaign.

00:16:15 ◼   ► And look, Federico, it was a real good one.

00:16:19 ◼   ► How maybe I should stop saying unpopular things, you know?

00:16:23 ◼   ► Please say it.

00:16:24 ◼   ► Go on.

00:16:25 ◼   ► No.

00:16:25 ◼   ► No.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Say it.

00:16:26 ◼   ► I think TikTok is ruining us as a species.

00:16:34 ◼   ► Sure.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Yeah, that's not controversial.

00:16:36 ◼   ► Yeah, but this is a different thing to that.

00:16:39 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not disagreeing with that.

00:16:41 ◼   ► But at all, in fact, I do agree with it.

00:16:44 ◼   ► But this is just a thing that happened, right?

00:16:46 ◼   ► Like this is, you know, this is just a thing that happened.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:16:52 ◼   ► So this is the closest I've gotten.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And so I continue.

00:16:55 ◼   ► Hold on a second.

00:16:57 ◼   ► So this person, right?

00:16:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:59 ◼   ► They seem to be pretty young.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:17:04 ◼   ► They are a Gen Zer.

00:17:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:17:06 ◼   ► What are they doing on TikTok, on LinkedIn?

00:17:08 ◼   ► They're a business person.

00:17:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:17:12 ◼   ► They work at a corporation, right?

00:17:14 ◼   ► They work at Apple.

00:17:14 ◼   ► I'm just trying to reconcile the type of energy that I would expect from a TikTok campaign.

00:17:19 ◼   ► And if you want to get ahead, if you, you know, you work at Apple and you want to get ahead,

00:17:24 ◼   ► you have to be on LinkedIn and do exactly what this person did.

00:17:27 ◼   ► I was responsible for this campaign, right?

00:17:30 ◼   ► Like that's, and so they're only doing it.

00:17:32 ◼   ► So it's like on their profile and it's like a thing that you can point to.

00:17:36 ◼   ► For the same reason that I'm on LinkedIn, I'm like, hey, everyone on LinkedIn, look at this

00:17:40 ◼   ► successful Kickstarter campaign I had.

00:17:42 ◼   ► Like that's why I'm, that's what I'm doing on LinkedIn.

00:17:45 ◼   ► Man, you're so much more businessy than I am.

00:17:48 ◼   ► You always have been though.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:52 ◼   ► I mean, I'm a business person.

00:17:52 ◼   ► I cannot, I cannot do the things you do.

00:17:55 ◼   ► Like the business.

00:17:56 ◼   ► I think that's fine.

00:17:56 ◼   ► But that's because someone's got to do them, right?

00:17:58 ◼   ► Can you do it for me?

00:18:00 ◼   ► I think I do.

00:18:02 ◼   ► Right.

00:18:02 ◼   ► At least with this, this part of your business.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:18:06 ◼   ► I did it.

00:18:07 ◼   ► We're here.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Here I am.

00:18:09 ◼   ► I'm being business for you.

00:18:11 ◼   ► You know, do you need me to do more business for you?

00:18:14 ◼   ► Doesn't John do that?

00:18:15 ◼   ► I think John does that.

00:18:16 ◼   ► No, because we are.

00:18:17 ◼   ► Yes.

00:18:18 ◼   ► But also like we don't, I think you're, you're good at it.

00:18:22 ◼   ► You know?

00:18:22 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I mean, this is actually a conversation.

00:18:25 ◼   ► I think you actually like it.

00:18:27 ◼   ► Yes.

00:18:27 ◼   ► I do like it.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Yes.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:28 ◼   ► See, that's what I'm trying to get at.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Me and Nadine were having this conversation just last night about, you know, just kind of

00:18:36 ◼   ► reflecting on what this month has been for me.

00:18:39 ◼   ► And like, this is the thing.

00:18:40 ◼   ► I, we're now entering into a conversation I wasn't expecting to have.

00:18:44 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:18:45 ◼   ► No, it's totally fine.

00:18:46 ◼   ► I don't have the skills that everybody that I work with has.

00:18:52 ◼   ► But what I'm good at is business.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Like, I am not as good a writer as you guys.

00:18:58 ◼   ► I am not as thoughtful.

00:19:00 ◼   ► I am not as intelligent, I think, in, in the things you are intelligent in.

00:19:04 ◼   ► I have a different intelligence.

00:19:06 ◼   ► I have a different intelligence and I'm, I'm good with that.

00:19:08 ◼   ► You're intellectually shorter than Federico is what you're saying.

00:19:11 ◼   ► I'm intellectually shorter than Federico.

00:19:12 ◼   ► I am creatively tinier than Steven.

00:19:15 ◼   ► You know, this is just the way it goes.

00:19:16 ◼   ► But like, I, you guys are, you're really good at the things you're good at.

00:19:20 ◼   ► I'm not good at those.

00:19:21 ◼   ► But what I bring to the table is, is things like that.

00:19:24 ◼   ► Like I can help with the businessy stuff.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Right?

00:19:26 ◼   ► That's, that's what I do.

00:19:27 ◼   ► So, there you go.

00:19:29 ◼   ► Can Lions, everybody.

00:19:31 ◼   ► Can Lions, everybody.

00:19:33 ◼   ► This has opened my brain to a whole thing.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Thank you, Mike.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Oh, it's like, it's a thing, man.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Can Lions is like a thing.

00:19:41 ◼   ► Because everybody just wants awards at the end of the day.

00:19:43 ◼   ► That's what it boils down to.

00:19:44 ◼   ► And so, this is obviously different from the Cannes Music Festival.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Movie Festival.

00:19:48 ◼   ► Film Festival.

00:19:49 ◼   ► Film Festival, yeah.

00:19:50 ◼   ► It's only similar in that they're both in Cannes.

00:19:53 ◼   ► That's it.

00:19:54 ◼   ► They're just both in the place.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Two completely separate things.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:19:57 ◼   ► They're completely separate, yeah.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Cannes, this is the advertising festival, essentially.

00:20:02 ◼   ► And then you have the film festival.

00:20:04 ◼   ► All right.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Perfect.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Got it.

00:20:06 ◼   ► Cannes is clearly a festival town.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:20:09 ◼   ► They're like, they're like, you know, San Jose used to be a conference town.

00:20:14 ◼   ► It is very much a conference town.

00:20:16 ◼   ► It still is.

00:20:17 ◼   ► But now nobody.

00:20:18 ◼   ► Yeah, San Jose is now a desert town.

00:20:20 ◼   ► But that's a different topic.

00:20:21 ◼   ► And to prove my point about everybody wants awards, we started this conversation.

00:20:25 ◼   ► And with Stephen wanting a doctorate.

00:20:27 ◼   ► So, like, everybody just wants awards.

00:20:30 ◼   ► It's true.

00:20:30 ◼   ► And so, sometimes.

00:20:31 ◼   ► No, you know what I want.

00:20:32 ◼   ► You go to the south of France.

00:20:34 ◼   ► One of my lingering dreams is to get, like, one of those honorary degrees.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what we're talking about for Stephen.

00:20:43 ◼   ► Okay.

00:20:43 ◼   ► We all have this wish that a university will say, you're a doctor now.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Congratulations.

00:20:49 ◼   ► You didn't have to do any of the work.

00:20:51 ◼   ► Yeah, no.

00:20:51 ◼   ► The university being just like, you're too good to be just a regular person.

00:20:55 ◼   ► We want to give you, like, a title.

00:20:57 ◼   ► You're so good.

00:20:58 ◼   ► You don't need to do any of the work for this.

00:21:02 ◼   ► It'd be amazing.

00:21:02 ◼   ► I would love it.

00:21:04 ◼   ► I would love it.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Federico, you were on a podcast I'm familiar with, Mac Power Users.

00:21:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Oh, I got to tell you, man.

00:21:14 ◼   ► It's so much better since you left.

00:21:15 ◼   ► Jeez!

00:21:17 ◼   ► Watch what you're saying!

00:21:18 ◼   ► You can't say that!

00:21:21 ◼   ► Holy cow!

00:21:23 ◼   ► You can't even joke about that!

00:21:29 ◼   ► Oh, come on.

00:21:30 ◼   ► I can't joke about it?

00:21:31 ◼   ► I mean, the guy's getting a degree for free.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Cut to, it's 9pm tonight, and Stephen's looking in the mirror, and he's like, did he mean that?

00:21:43 ◼   ► This is where we are.

00:21:44 ◼   ► I don't mean it.

00:21:45 ◼   ► I just want to steer the pot.

00:21:47 ◼   ► You know me?

00:21:48 ◼   ► I'm a pot steerer.

00:21:49 ◼   ► So, Stephen Robles is a really good fit for the show.

00:21:52 ◼   ► I'm very glad he's there.

00:21:53 ◼   ► He is a very good guy.

00:21:56 ◼   ► He's great.

00:21:57 ◼   ► I actually mentioned on the show that I'm honored to have participated in all the different iterations

00:22:04 ◼   ► of the show.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Yeah, it's nice, right?

00:22:07 ◼   ► I picked up that.

00:22:08 ◼   ► All three eras.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Honorific recently, too.

00:22:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:11 ◼   ► Stephen, I was kidding.

00:22:14 ◼   ► It's just who I am.

00:22:16 ◼   ► Or maybe I wasn't, but just I'll leave that up to your conscience.

00:22:19 ◼   ► But you'll never know.

00:22:20 ◼   ► I'll leave that up to your conscience, to the side, and your self-esteem.

00:22:23 ◼   ► I know you have plenty.

00:22:25 ◼   ► Unlike Mike.

00:22:26 ◼   ► So, obviously not as much as me.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Stephen Robles, super tall, by the way.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:33 ◼   ► Yeah, he's a big dude.

00:22:35 ◼   ► And I think he's taller than you, Mike.

00:22:38 ◼   ► You know what?

00:22:41 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:22:42 ◼   ► And I'm just going to say he probably is, because it would make sense.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Most people are.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Anyway, really good episode.

00:22:48 ◼   ► We nerded out about shortcuts and the new things in shortcuts in macOS and iOS 27, the new natural

00:22:58 ◼   ► language creation stuff, some UI issues that we're having, the new actions.

00:23:03 ◼   ► And they let me talk for a few minutes about the things that I'm doing with shortcuts playground 2, which was fun.

00:23:09 ◼   ► And yeah, I was really glad to be on the show with this new combo of co-hosts.

00:23:17 ◼   ► And it was fun.

00:23:19 ◼   ► We had a question about your appearance.

00:23:24 ◼   ► Sims wrote in and said, on NPU, Federico mentioned that he wrote his WBC blog post on the plane on his phone.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Why that workflow?

00:23:33 ◼   ► Because it was more comfortable.

00:23:35 ◼   ► I was kind of laying down.

00:23:37 ◼   ► And I didn't want to get up to get my laptop.

00:23:41 ◼   ► You were laying down?

00:23:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:45 ◼   ► I was like, you know how you can recline the seat when you're flying business?

00:23:50 ◼   ► No.

00:23:51 ◼   ► No, I don't, actually.

00:23:52 ◼   ► You don't?

00:23:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:54 ◼   ► You should try it.

00:23:55 ◼   ► You should try it.

00:23:55 ◼   ► It's quite comfy.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And I was having this little, I mean, look, I'm just telling the truth.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:05 ◼   ► I was having a little champagne.

00:24:06 ◼   ► There it is.

00:24:07 ◼   ► And I figured, you know, I have an idea for an article and I just started typing it on the phone

00:24:12 ◼   ► and then one thing led to another and it was a blog post.

00:24:15 ◼   ► You know, when some words really like each other, they eventually make a blog post.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:24:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:30 ◼   ► That's incredible.

00:24:31 ◼   ► I mean, you had so many computers, surely.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I had a couple.

00:24:34 ◼   ► This is interesting.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:36 ◼   ► I had my MacBook Pro, my iPad Pro, my Nintendo Switch, which is not a computer, but it's, you

00:24:40 ◼   ► know, a device and my phone.

00:24:42 ◼   ► And I just started, I just started on the phone and then I got in a really good groove

00:24:46 ◼   ► and I thought, I'm just going to keep going.

00:24:48 ◼   ► And, and what is it?

00:24:50 ◼   ► Like a 1500 words or so later.

00:24:53 ◼   ► I was like, it's pretty good.

00:24:54 ◼   ► I'm going to take a look at it tomorrow because this champagne is kicking in.

00:24:57 ◼   ► So yeah, I took another look the day after and it was pretty good still.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Pretty good still.

00:25:02 ◼   ► Question.

00:25:04 ◼   ► So you said you took your Nintendo Switch.

00:25:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:07 ◼   ► How many minutes did you play on your Nintendo Switch?

00:25:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Why are you still doing this?

00:25:12 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, man.

00:25:13 ◼   ► On one of the Mac Stories Universal podcasts, I was hearing John say also what I have felt,

00:25:19 ◼   ► which is like, I would take games consoles on trip and never touch them.

00:25:23 ◼   ► So he decided not to do it anymore, except he's a little flippy round rotating thing because

00:25:27 ◼   ► I think he wanted to show people like me about how that thing worked.

00:25:29 ◼   ► I think a part of me, inside of me, does this so I can keep saying this every year.

00:25:39 ◼   ► It's almost like a tradition that I know I'm not going to play, but I still take it so that

00:25:45 ◼   ► I will be able to say, yeah, I took it, but I never played.

00:25:48 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:25:48 ◼   ► It's kind of weird.

00:25:49 ◼   ► Human behavior can be strange.

00:25:51 ◼   ► Strange.

00:25:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:52 ◼   ► I mean, because you think like it's perfect, right?

00:25:54 ◼   ► You could just sit and play a video game for 10 hours.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It's like, why would we not do that?

00:25:58 ◼   ► It's like, I don't know, man, I just want to watch a movie over somebody's shoulder instead.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Have you ever done that?

00:26:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Yeah, of course.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Big time.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Like, and just like not listening or watching.

00:26:10 ◼   ► And I watched an entire movie over somebody's shoulder once and didn't hear a word of it.

00:26:15 ◼   ► Watched the whole thing.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:16 ◼   ► No, maybe not a whole movie, but like a good chunk of it.

00:26:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:20 ◼   ► I've done it.

00:26:20 ◼   ► It was the movie about McDonald's.

00:26:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:26 ◼   ► That one.

00:26:28 ◼   ► It's a pretty good movie.

00:26:29 ◼   ► I got what I needed from it.

00:26:32 ◼   ► It's called The Founder by Michael Keaton.

00:26:34 ◼   ► Watched the whole movie.

00:26:35 ◼   ► Didn't hear a word.

00:26:36 ◼   ► It didn't have subtitles.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I just was like, I'll work this out.

00:26:39 ◼   ► And there you go.

00:26:40 ◼   ► Did the whole thing.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Why is Batman making french fries?

00:26:42 ◼   ► It was interesting to work out what the movie was about.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Because I didn't start from the start.

00:26:48 ◼   ► It was like the movie had begun and I just started watching.

00:26:51 ◼   ► It's like, I'll catch on.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Watch the whole thing.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Okay.

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00:28:38 ◼   ► Federico, it's summer.

00:28:41 ◼   ► How's the review doing?

00:28:46 ◼   ► It's not.

00:28:47 ◼   ► For the, so it's, let me see.

00:28:52 ◼   ► Let me take a look at my dashboard.

00:28:53 ◼   ► So it's more than three weeks since iOS 27 came out.

00:29:00 ◼   ► It's day 25.

00:29:02 ◼   ► I have, I have, I've only taken, I've only written down a few sentences here and there.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Like I think I know, for example, how the review is going to start.

00:29:12 ◼   ► I have a line in the introduction.

00:29:16 ◼   ► I have taken some notes, but I have not, I've not done any, any proper writing.

00:29:25 ◼   ► I have decided that I was going to spend the first three, the first month, maybe just using

00:29:34 ◼   ► it and it didn't help, of course, that I've only been able to solve Siri AI a few days ago

00:29:42 ◼   ► in terms of being able to use it reliably.

00:29:45 ◼   ► But I decided to follow and to actually continue down the road that I've, that I've followed

00:29:52 ◼   ► for the first few years, which is just use it for the first three weeks or so.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And so that you can gather your first impressions for the public beta and so that you also come

00:30:06 ◼   ► to a, to a thought, to an idea on your own, uh, without having seen any of the sessions,

00:30:16 ◼   ► without having, uh, read the PR material extensively, just try and reach conclusions or opinions on

00:30:25 ◼   ► your own.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Right.

00:30:27 ◼   ► And I haven't watched any videos by other people.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Like this is something that I started doing a few years ago when I also switched the overall

00:30:37 ◼   ► review style and I'm going to continue doing that.

00:30:40 ◼   ► The current plan is to start some of the writing on, in the middle of July.

00:30:46 ◼   ► I'm going to have a few days for myself and I think I'm going to, I'm going to use those

00:30:51 ◼   ► days to write some and watch sessions.

00:30:54 ◼   ► But in the meantime, my sort of self-organizing system is working beautifully.

00:31:00 ◼   ► I have this dashboard that I created, uh, with Notion and the help of Fable.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Um, and, uh, uh, it's actually a little web app that runs on my Mac Studio.

00:31:12 ◼   ► It tells me that I have seven chapters, uh, good to go.

00:31:15 ◼   ► Uh, I have, I have saved 32 sessions to watch.

00:31:19 ◼   ► I have clipped to 48 articles, uh, from which we have extracted 133 features that I need to

00:31:29 ◼   ► cover across these seven chapters and the apps chapter, which is number five, as always is

00:31:37 ◼   ► comprised of, uh, 24 subsections this year.

00:31:42 ◼   ► And, uh, it's a pretty nice looking system.

00:31:45 ◼   ► I gotta say, I'm gonna, I'm gonna send you a screenshot in the, in the discord.

00:31:50 ◼   ► This, you will see the kind of system that I'm dealing with.

00:31:54 ◼   ► It's a dashboard that shows me chapter by chapter, uh, sections, my related notes, my related

00:32:01 ◼   ► sessions, my screenshots.

00:32:03 ◼   ► I've been saving a bunch of screenshots that I've been doing.

00:32:06 ◼   ► So I have been doing what I, you know, I've essentially been using this a lot, saving screenshots

00:32:14 ◼   ► as I go and taken the occasional note to my dashboard tells me that I've taken 11 notes

00:32:21 ◼   ► and I've written down a few opening and closing sentences here and there, but mostly I would

00:32:28 ◼   ► say I've just been using the thing and, uh, it'll come to me.

00:32:34 ◼   ► I hope at some point.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Well, I think this was the, this is like a symptom of the change in, in approach, right?

00:32:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Like when it was much more factual in its, in its, you could just start writing whenever

00:32:48 ◼   ► you want.

00:32:49 ◼   ► It was more mechanical.

00:32:50 ◼   ► Yes.

00:32:51 ◼   ► Like detail.

00:32:51 ◼   ► But now, now that you have to weave a narrative through the review, it takes a bit more time

00:32:59 ◼   ► to get started.

00:33:00 ◼   ► So these numbers at the top, you've got all the features like calendar, camera, clock that,

00:33:05 ◼   ► and there's a number next to them.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Are they the, the features in those apps that you feel like you need to cover?

00:33:11 ◼   ► So let me take a look at the, let me take a look at the screenshot again.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Yes.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:16 ◼   ► So this is from you like sending information into the system and it categorizes the features

00:33:24 ◼   ► and then you have a little note to go back to.

00:33:26 ◼   ► So this works in a, in a couple of different ways and has been working quite reliably for

00:33:32 ◼   ► 25 days.

00:33:33 ◼   ► So it's pretty well tested.

00:33:34 ◼   ► It's the kind of system that is designed to have the least possible interaction from

00:33:39 ◼   ► me and everything sort of happening in the background.

00:33:43 ◼   ► So what I do, like my manual actions, I mean, obviously besides taking notes manually myself

00:33:51 ◼   ► and saving screenshots manually myself, I just want to be able to clip a, an article or with

00:33:59 ◼   ► the notion extension in Safari or clip a session from Apple on YouTube and everything happens

00:34:08 ◼   ► in notion.

00:34:08 ◼   ► I have a custom agent in notion that is also based on a notion worker.

00:34:14 ◼   ► This is some of the new stuff that notion has been doing lately.

00:34:18 ◼   ► And it basically, um, organizes everything, understands if the page that was saved into a database

00:34:27 ◼   ► is an article or is a video.

00:34:28 ◼   ► If it's an article, it summarizes the article.

00:34:31 ◼   ► If it's a video, it transcribes and then summarizes the video is able to, as some code.

00:34:37 ◼   ► So this was created by Fable, uh, before the shutdown in June, it runs some code to understand

00:34:45 ◼   ► what's the structure of the review, what are the chapters, what are the sections inside

00:34:50 ◼   ► the apps chapter, which is the only one that has like sub chapters inside.

00:34:55 ◼   ► And in this article that Federico saved, or in this video that Federico saved, um, what are

00:35:03 ◼   ► the features that are being mentioned?

00:35:05 ◼   ► So let's say, let's say that I save an article from nine to five Mac saying all the new reminders

00:35:10 ◼   ► features that are coming in iOS 27.

00:35:12 ◼   ► My system takes their article, scripts it, summarizes it, and understands, okay, this

00:35:18 ◼   ► article mentions five features.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Um, these features, are they already mentioned anywhere else in the features database?

00:35:26 ◼   ► If it's a new feature, it saves it as a new feature.

00:35:30 ◼   ► If it's an existing feature, it, it, it, uh, creates a, uh, like what's it called?

00:35:35 ◼   ► Like, um, like a backlink to it.

00:35:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:40 ◼   ► And, uh, so there's this relationship, right?

00:35:43 ◼   ► Between article, which is my draft, a source, which is what I clip from Safari and a feature.

00:35:53 ◼   ► These are three separate databases and they're all connected to each other.

00:35:56 ◼   ► That's how it works.

00:35:58 ◼   ► It's not just three separate databases.

00:35:59 ◼   ► It's one, it's one, it's actually one database.

00:36:01 ◼   ► And, uh, this is the sort of the, the summary of how it works.

00:36:07 ◼   ► It's these three different databases talking to each other via an agent in the middle.

00:36:12 ◼   ► And, uh, the screenshots that I sent you are the web app that is, uh, from the web app that

00:36:18 ◼   ► is running on my Mac Studio that is using the Notion API.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And, uh, there's actually a couple of different things that I can also show you.

00:36:27 ◼   ► There is a, uh, this is quite fancy.

00:36:29 ◼   ► This is the, essentially what you can get with Fable.

00:36:34 ◼   ► I had created a little, uh, Stephen is going to appreciate this, a little, uh, space theme

00:36:42 ◼   ► view of my universe of chapters and features.

00:36:46 ◼   ► And it's a little interactive thing that lets you zoom in.

00:36:50 ◼   ► This is like the Obsidian thing.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:52 ◼   ► It's like the Obsidian thing, but made by me and with Fable.

00:36:55 ◼   ► And you can zoom in and see all the different things that I have.

00:36:59 ◼   ► And, uh, uh, I can search all of my features.

00:37:04 ◼   ► I can, uh, run this, uh, so this thing runs every hour.

00:37:08 ◼   ► It talks to my Notion, sees if there are new articles that I clipped, uh, or new notes that

00:37:16 ◼   ► I took, uh, or I can run it manually.

00:37:19 ◼   ► And the final thing I will mention that is really nice is, uh, the system knows.

00:37:25 ◼   ► What, at what point of the beta season we're at, it talks to the Apple developer RSS feed.

00:37:34 ◼   ► Um, the, uh, Apple has an RSS feed that tells you what the latest version of an iOS or iPad

00:37:41 ◼   ► OS beta is, and it saves that.

00:37:45 ◼   ► So it knows that right now we are on beta two that was released, uh, on June 22nd.

00:37:52 ◼   ► And it estimates that we're now at 24% of the typical beta season.

00:37:58 ◼   ► Uh-oh.

00:37:59 ◼   ► And yeah.

00:37:59 ◼   ► And, and what's nice is that when I save a screenshot, so I told, when I was building this, I told

00:38:08 ◼   ► Fable, assume that I'm the kind of person that as soon as a beta is released, I will install

00:38:15 ◼   ► it right away.

00:38:15 ◼   ► And I set this kind of principle so that when I'm saving a screenshot, the system automatically

00:38:24 ◼   ► infers that the screenshot belongs to what the latest beta is.

00:38:29 ◼   ► And so now my screenshots are automatically categorized by topic and by beta version.

00:38:38 ◼   ► So I have a systematic way of, for example, checking out how the reminders splash screen

00:38:47 ◼   ► changed across multiple betas, which is something that I've always wanted to have.

00:38:52 ◼   ► I tried to do it manually many, many years ago.

00:38:55 ◼   ► It was horrible.

00:38:56 ◼   ► Now the AI can do it for me.

00:38:59 ◼   ► All you need to do is remember to take the screenshot.

00:39:01 ◼   ► I take a screenshot.

00:39:02 ◼   ► I run a shortcut that uploads the image to my Mac studio and asks me for a title.

00:39:09 ◼   ► Uh, if I don't put in a title, it tries to run OCR on the image and try to understand what's

00:39:15 ◼   ► going on.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Uh, but I just like to write down like reminders splash screen or new toolbar in Safari.

00:39:23 ◼   ► That's kind of what I enter.

00:39:24 ◼   ► And then the system takes care of everything.

00:39:26 ◼   ► And of course, when it will be time to sit down in July and write this, I can open my

00:39:34 ◼   ► notion and I can navigate to a chapter, like say, for example, uh, Apple intelligence and

00:39:40 ◼   ► Siri and inside of it, and I'm going to send you a screenshot as well inside of it.

00:39:47 ◼   ► Uh, I will see all the things that are related to that.

00:39:53 ◼   ► So I can just click to open those things in separate tabs, but I can write my chapter in

00:40:00 ◼   ► Notion.

00:40:00 ◼   ► So these are all kind of the, the relations that exist between databases.

00:40:06 ◼   ► So I can sit down and say, all right, what sessions do I have about this?

00:40:11 ◼   ► What notes did I take?

00:40:13 ◼   ► Uh, what screenshots do I have about all of this?

00:40:17 ◼   ► And I can just open those in separate tabs and write in the main, uh, page.

00:40:24 ◼   ► It seems like you've got a pretty decent setup.

00:40:27 ◼   ► It's a decent setup.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Uh, it's, it builds upon the setup that I created last year in Notion.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:34 ◼   ► And obviously the big change this year was AI.

00:40:37 ◼   ► So, uh, last year I had to do it all manually.

00:40:41 ◼   ► This year I took that iOS 26 setup and I said, this is what I did last year.

00:40:48 ◼   ► I want you to recreate it and extend it for me.

00:40:51 ◼   ► And it did it.

00:40:53 ◼   ► So thank you, Fable.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Uh, this happened before the United States government intervention.

00:40:59 ◼   ► But now obviously Fable is back.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Because of this, this, they're like, no one man can have all this power.

00:41:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:41:05 ◼   ► I did get flagged, I did get flagged for cybersecurity before the Fable shutdown.

00:41:10 ◼   ► So I, maybe I played it.

00:41:11 ◼   ► What did you do?

00:41:12 ◼   ► I tried to reverse engineer the, uh, the archive file that Apple gives you, uh, for Apple intelligence.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It's called an Apple intelligence system report.

00:41:26 ◼   ► This is something that you can generate on your own in the settings app on your phone.

00:41:30 ◼   ► Yeah, but that, it looked, but like to, to the system, it looks like you're doing, they

00:41:33 ◼   ► don't know.

00:41:34 ◼   ► It looks like you're up to something, right?

00:41:36 ◼   ► You're like, you're up to no good.

00:41:37 ◼   ► To be fair, to be fair, Fable freaked out when it got to, uh, after my, my poking, you know,

00:41:46 ◼   ► uh, I like to use these agents and every once in a while I send a message in the queue and

00:41:51 ◼   ► I'm like, you're doing a good job.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Keep going.

00:41:53 ◼   ► It's like, you're on a horse and you're like, keep going, you know, when you, uh, and Fable

00:41:59 ◼   ► freaked itself out essentially when it understood how to decrypt the names of the servers in Google

00:42:11 ◼   ► data centers that are technically encrypted and hashed in that system report.

00:42:17 ◼   ► And it did that, it decrypted that.

00:42:20 ◼   ► And I saw in the thinking steps be like, oh no, this is unsafe.

00:42:24 ◼   ► And also he's too happy about this.

00:42:26 ◼   ► It's like, uh, so he flagged itself for a cybersecurity attack, but he was still happy enough to give

00:42:33 ◼   ► me the, the URL and the domain of the Google servers that were being used in Europe and

00:42:39 ◼   ► North America for Apple intelligence.

00:42:40 ◼   ► So that was pretty cool.

00:42:42 ◼   ► Anyway.

00:42:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:44 ◼   ► It's a decent setup.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Uh, we'll see.

00:42:47 ◼   ► So I want to talk about the Apple watch because there's been a couple of rumors circling, which

00:42:55 ◼   ► is, is bringing it front to mind.

00:42:57 ◼   ► So first off there is a rumor point into a major redesign coming this year for the Apple

00:43:04 ◼   ► watch ultra four with quote significant upgrade to sensing functions, as well as the quote major

00:43:10 ◼   ► redesign that's from nine to five Mac.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And then also Mac rumors and nine to five Mac reporting on the, uh, the reemergence of

00:43:20 ◼   ► the Apple watch X, we'll just call it X, uh, saying that a big redesign for is coming in

00:43:28 ◼   ► 2027 for the series line of watches, uh, leaker instant digital implied that it would change

00:43:35 ◼   ► the way that bands connect to the watch, meaning that backwards compatibility would end.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Um, this is something that has been spoken about before Mark gum, Mark Gurman was talking

00:43:43 ◼   ► about this, uh, about maybe going to a magnetic approach for attaching, uh, what Apple watches

00:43:50 ◼   ► and watch bands.

00:43:50 ◼   ► So all of this, you know, Apple watch ultra four, maybe getting a redesign this year, maybe

00:43:57 ◼   ► the, uh, Apple watch regular Apple watch, getting a redesign next year.

00:44:02 ◼   ► Um, I wondered if either of you had any like thoughts or hopes for what redesign redesign of

00:44:09 ◼   ► both of these watches could, could be, or what you want for the ultra, either the ultra or

00:44:19 ◼   ► the series.

00:44:20 ◼   ► I mean, a thinner is always nicer.

00:44:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:25 ◼   ► The thing is, I, I don't really have that many wishes for the Apple watch, but a couple of

00:44:35 ◼   ► things I do have, I, I would like to see more variety in terms of the types of bands that

00:44:43 ◼   ► Apple makes.

00:44:44 ◼   ► I think they've been kind of the same for a few years now and the more innovative stuff

00:44:52 ◼   ► was left to Hermes, but I'm not buying a Hermes watch band.

00:44:56 ◼   ► Uh, I would like to see Apple get a little stranger, a little weirder with, with Apple watch

00:45:01 ◼   ► bands.

00:45:01 ◼   ► I'm not sure if a new mechanism helps in that regard.

00:45:04 ◼   ► I think they got pretty hung up on trying to create a new material through a place level.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:45:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:10 ◼   ► I think that may have been like, and while that it didn't work, so we don't really consider

00:45:15 ◼   ► an innovation or like people weren't particularly happy with fine woven, um, or tech woven or

00:45:22 ◼   ► whatever it ends up being on.

00:45:23 ◼   ► like, I think that may have kind of stalled them a little bit with, with some of the band

00:45:28 ◼   ► development.

00:45:28 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:45:29 ◼   ► Maybe the other thing, and this is maybe going to sound a little strange.

00:45:34 ◼   ► Um, I would love to see an Apple watch where Siri AI really works well.

00:45:40 ◼   ► Um, the battery lasts a long time, but also where Siri AI has visual intelligence.

00:45:48 ◼   ► I guess what I'm trying to say is I wouldn't be totally opposed to the idea of an Apple

00:45:52 ◼   ► watch having a camera because there've been so many instances where I was like doing something

00:45:57 ◼   ► around the house and, and it would have been nice to have a little AI right there on my hand,

00:46:06 ◼   ► being able to see what I was seeing and guide me through.

00:46:10 ◼   ► For example, last year I needed to fix a power cable and I had to put Gemini next to me with

00:46:19 ◼   ► the phone, kind of prop up the phone when I was doing this thing on the balcony outside so

00:46:24 ◼   ► that I could use Gemini live.

00:46:26 ◼   ► And it would have been so much nicer if that was actually on my wrist and not made by, not

00:46:33 ◼   ► made by Google is a bit of a stretch with Siri AI, but you, you get my point.

00:46:37 ◼   ► Like I wouldn't totally mind the Apple watch being able to quote unquote see and, and have

00:46:44 ◼   ► visual intelligence features.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Maybe like in the way with the AirPods is, it's not like a camera camera, but exactly.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Like you're not taking, you're not just, you know, you're not just walking around holding

00:46:56 ◼   ► up your hand in a fist and taking pictures of people, you know, uh, but like having V I think

00:47:04 ◼   ► people get hung up on this idea, having vision capabilities different from being a camera.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:47:11 ◼   ► Steven, do you have any like wishes for the Apple watch?

00:47:15 ◼   ► I, I would, I wouldn't mind the ultra getting refined a little bit, like sort of the bulgy

00:47:23 ◼   ► sides seem like that could be, that could be a little bit more elegant.

00:47:29 ◼   ► To me, just the most interesting part of this thing is though, they've got what 12, 11 or

00:47:35 ◼   ► 12 years of Apple band history and they've never broken it.

00:47:38 ◼   ► And you know, we, this comes up every so often.

00:47:42 ◼   ► We've talked about this before.

00:47:43 ◼   ► They have to have a really compelling reason for doing this.

00:47:49 ◼   ► And I think there will be people who are upset.

00:47:51 ◼   ► So I'm, I'm mostly just interested in what that means and what, what that lets them do.

00:47:57 ◼   ► You know, I think on the series watch side, the series 10 and 11 being thinner and with

00:48:03 ◼   ► bigger screens, like that form factor feels pretty good to me.

00:48:06 ◼   ► And it feels like they've really kind of reached the end state of that original Apple watch design

00:48:13 ◼   ► in a lot of ways.

00:48:13 ◼   ► And I agree with Federico, there's room to be weirder, but other than the ultra just kind

00:48:18 ◼   ► of getting cleaned up a little bit, I don't think I have anything super high on the list.

00:48:22 ◼   ► What is a compelling reason for you, for them changing the, like, what would you consider

00:48:28 ◼   ► to be an acceptable reason?

00:48:32 ◼   ► I think if they said, Hey, look, we've got, you know, 20% more battery in the same chassis

00:48:37 ◼   ► because of this change, uh, or it's, it's even, you know, and it's even more secure and

00:48:43 ◼   ► easier to deal with.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Like, I think those are the sorts of the things, sort of the things they're going to rely on.

00:48:49 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I wonder if, you know, they'd just be like, well, look at this beautiful new design.

00:48:55 ◼   ► We needed to change this, right?

00:48:57 ◼   ► Like I can imagine it be like what, what they say is the reason it's like compelling might

00:49:04 ◼   ► not necessarily be something that everybody will agree with.

00:49:08 ◼   ► In fact, I know people won't like this, but I am also, I'm of the opinion of like the Apple

00:49:13 ◼   ► watch design needs to change.

00:49:15 ◼   ► Like it has to change for me.

00:49:17 ◼   ► Like I think the Apple watch design is really old now and I want them to change it in some

00:49:24 ◼   ► way.

00:49:24 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:49:25 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:49:25 ◼   ► I mean, I know what the things that I want, but they're not things they're going to do.

00:49:28 ◼   ► Like I want a round one.

00:49:29 ◼   ► They're not going to do that.

00:49:30 ◼   ► Um, but they, it needs a big refresh and I hope, I really hope that if they're going to

00:49:36 ◼   ► do this, it does actually look significantly different in a way that you would be able to tell

00:49:43 ◼   ► on someone's wrist that they have the new Apple watch.

00:49:45 ◼   ► That's what I'm talking about.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Right.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Cause I feel like you can't, right?

00:49:49 ◼   ► Like I would say you cannot look at somebody's wrist, like the average person and be like,

00:49:56 ◼   ► well, that's the new Apple watch.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Like it's just, they're indisputable from each other from like maybe series three onwards.

00:50:04 ◼   ► Like they just look the same.

00:50:05 ◼   ► Like they don't, they don't look any different.

00:50:08 ◼   ► Um, the Apple watch ultra, I, I would like them to lean.

00:50:15 ◼   ► You lean into the direction that a lot of people wear it, which is they just want the biggest,

00:50:20 ◼   ► nicest one and not necessarily care as much about extreme fitness and like make, not make

00:50:30 ◼   ► that the pure driver.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Um, so like I want different materials and finishes in the Apple watch ultra.

00:50:36 ◼   ► I don't just want two colors of titanium.

00:50:38 ◼   ► Like I would like different finishes.

00:50:40 ◼   ► Why can't I also have a polished stainless steel one?

00:50:44 ◼   ► Like, let me make that decision.

00:50:46 ◼   ► You know, like what?

00:50:47 ◼   ► I would like to make that decision.

00:50:49 ◼   ► What about round?

00:50:50 ◼   ► Well, I know, but they're not going to give me around.

00:50:53 ◼   ► So like I want round, but I got to give up because they're not going to give me around.

00:50:56 ◼   ► The screen should be bigger on the Apple watch ultra.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Bezos are way too big.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Like I don't want the watch to get bigger.

00:51:02 ◼   ► It's too big already.

00:51:03 ◼   ► But like, if you look at it, there's so much black around that border of the screen.

00:51:09 ◼   ► I want that to, to be all screen.

00:51:11 ◼   ► And I also like Steven, I would like the, I mean, I, I really want them to deal with the

00:51:16 ◼   ► rounded edge thing that is on all the Apple watches.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I think that's one of the things that I would like them to change.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Like, let's just stop doing the bulging at the sides.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Um, so yeah, I would like that kind of stuff.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Uh, health sensors.

00:51:30 ◼   ► I always want more health sensors because I think that's cool.

00:51:33 ◼   ► I mean, one of the original rumors for the Apple watch X is they were going to have some

00:51:38 ◼   ► kind of blood sugar sensor, but yeah, that feels like, I mean, that just feels too good

00:51:43 ◼   ► to ever really imagine it's going to happen in a way.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Like they've chased it a long time because they know how big a deal it would be if they

00:51:53 ◼   ► could, if they could nail that properly, like if they could really get that, like it would

00:51:58 ◼   ► be a huge deal for the Apple watch, but I don't know.

00:52:01 ◼   ► It just feels like something like a really hard problem to solve in a way that they would

00:52:05 ◼   ► need to solve it.

00:52:05 ◼   ► But yeah, so I don't know.

00:52:08 ◼   ► Um, so yeah, it's going to be interesting to see.

00:52:10 ◼   ► I, I'm keen that we might get some preview of when the Apple watch ultra four, I think

00:52:17 ◼   ► the ultra four really does need some effort put into it.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Cause they, they have not like, I was just talking to underscore about this of like the,

00:52:26 ◼   ► the ultra one was like, Oh wow, here we go.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Like, what are they doing now?

00:52:30 ◼   ► And then they just didn't really do much.

00:52:32 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:32 ◼   ► Like they, it's like, Oh, okay.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Like, we're just going to, what did it do with the ultra two?

00:52:36 ◼   ► Like put a different sensor in it.

00:52:38 ◼   ► And then the ultra three is like, now it's black.

00:52:40 ◼   ► Like what are we doing?

00:52:42 ◼   ► Like, well, no, they, they updated black was, I think an update to the two even.

00:52:47 ◼   ► And then the three has a new, a new processor.

00:52:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:50 ◼   ► It's, it's been, it's been not great.

00:52:53 ◼   ► Well, I think I have a two and I have things you don't have or the people who have the

00:52:59 ◼   ► one don't have, like there's at least a sensor or something that like, maybe it's the temperature.

00:53:05 ◼   ► Maybe it is temperature and it has the tap gesture.

00:53:10 ◼   ► That's, that's what it is.

00:53:11 ◼   ► It's the tap thing.

00:53:12 ◼   ► So it got the system on a chip that lets me do the tap thing.

00:53:15 ◼   ► So the two has that and the one doesn't.

00:53:17 ◼   ► I mean, and let's not even talk about the fact of what I really want, but they'll never

00:53:22 ◼   ► give me, which is just no screen.

00:53:24 ◼   ► Yep.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Do it.

00:53:26 ◼   ► That's what I really want.

00:53:27 ◼   ► That's not going to happen.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Well, I have dreams for Ternus, right?

00:53:32 ◼   ► Like, we know you do.

00:53:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:35 ◼   ► We can't, we can't do this anymore.

00:53:37 ◼   ► Like I have, I have a dream that he is going to make more niche products, right?

00:53:46 ◼   ► Like this big rumor about like home stuff, which I definitely think is happening now based

00:53:51 ◼   ► on the amount of things that they've put into cameras in the home app.

00:53:54 ◼   ► So much effort has gone into cameras that it feels inevitable that they're going to ship

00:53:59 ◼   ► their own like home camera.

00:54:01 ◼   ► That is like maybe a market Apple shouldn't bother going into.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Like if you think about them now, it's like, that seems way too niche.

00:54:09 ◼   ► Like a home security camera.

00:54:11 ◼   ► Like even the companies that base themselves on this don't seem to be that into it, right?

00:54:17 ◼   ► Like, you know, like, so is that, but if they're going to get into those kinds of worlds,

00:54:22 ◼   ► why not build a little fitness tracker that doesn't have a screen on it?

00:54:25 ◼   ► Like, why not do that?

00:54:26 ◼   ► Google thinks it's worth doing it.

00:54:28 ◼   ► So why don't you do it?

00:54:29 ◼   ► So it'll be fun.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Did I tell y'all I saw a Fitbit Air in the wild the other day?

00:54:35 ◼   ► I saw a bunch at WWDC, but that was obvious.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:38 ◼   ► That's, that's where the people are.

00:54:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I was at the grocery store and just like this lady passed me in the aisle and she had her

00:54:46 ◼   ► hand, like on the cart and it was like this Fitbit Air just sitting there.

00:54:49 ◼   ► Did you ask opinions?

00:54:51 ◼   ► I did not.

00:54:52 ◼   ► Generally, I try not to approach people in the grocery store and ask them about tech.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Just a personal rule.

00:54:59 ◼   ► That's a rule for you, I guess.

00:55:03 ◼   ► In general, do you, do either of you have any real opinions about the, what, like the Apple

00:55:11 ◼   ► watch now?

00:55:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:13 ◼   ► See, that's the thing now, really.

00:55:15 ◼   ► It's a, it's a bit of a sleepy, isn't it?

00:55:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:18 ◼   ► It's like, it's, it's, it's dependable.

00:55:22 ◼   ► It's kind of there.

00:55:24 ◼   ► I don't think about it, which is a great compliment.

00:55:28 ◼   ► It's a great compliment to pay to any accessory that you miss it when it's not there.

00:55:32 ◼   ► You don't really have a strong opinion in terms of like, oh, this thing absolutely sucks

00:55:37 ◼   ► and must change in such and such ways.

00:55:39 ◼   ► Like if the Apple watch stays exactly like this for the next couple of years, I probably

00:55:44 ◼   ► wouldn't mind it like it.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:46 ◼   ► And that makes it extremely hard, I think, to innovate.

00:55:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:55:52 ◼   ► For this kind of product that, I mean, obviously nothing is perfect, but you can achieve, and

00:55:58 ◼   ► I think Apple has done it, even arguably with the AirPods, you can achieve like a, an idealistic

00:56:04 ◼   ► baseline of, of a product after many years of iterations.

00:56:10 ◼   ► It makes me like, all right, you know what?

00:56:11 ◼   ► That's actually pretty good at this point.

00:56:13 ◼   ► Where do we go from here?

00:56:15 ◼   ► And that's why, for example, you start getting weirder, right?

00:56:19 ◼   ► With the AirPods.

00:56:19 ◼   ► You'll be like, yeah, let's put the cameras in.

00:56:21 ◼   ► This is probably exactly why they're like, we're going to do a new band mechanism, right?

00:56:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:24 ◼   ► It's just like, what else can we do?

00:56:27 ◼   ► You can reach like, it's almost like you reach this plateau of goodness and you're like, well,

00:56:35 ◼   ► yeah, people love it.

00:56:36 ◼   ► People buy it.

00:56:37 ◼   ► It's not terribly innovative at this point, but it's also pretty good.

00:56:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:43 ◼   ► So it's, it's, it's easier when something obviously sucks under certain aspects because

00:56:51 ◼   ► you have your, your work cut out for you.

00:56:53 ◼   ► You know what to do and it's harder to innovate when, when something is pretty good and you're

00:56:57 ◼   ► like, I can change things at the risk of ruining a good thing.

00:57:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:03 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:05 ◼   ► I feel like the combination for me now of the, the photos, watch face, which is like, I love

00:57:13 ◼   ► it.

00:57:13 ◼   ► You know, you just pick photos of people that you care about and they just show up on your

00:57:18 ◼   ► watch face all the time.

00:57:19 ◼   ► Like that.

00:57:20 ◼   ► I love that thing so much and you can have two complications.

00:57:22 ◼   ► So I have the weather on my calendar.

00:57:24 ◼   ► Like that's kind of all I need on the watch face.

00:57:27 ◼   ► I don't need anything more than that.

00:57:28 ◼   ► And then the smart stack, like that combo for me is brilliant because the smart stack always

00:57:33 ◼   ► has what I need in it.

00:57:34 ◼   ► Like if I need anything more, like I've said this leading up to WWDC, I don't really think

00:57:40 ◼   ► they need apps.

00:57:41 ◼   ► Like I just, I don't think the Apple watch needs apps, apps, like even the way that they

00:57:45 ◼   ► are now.

00:57:45 ◼   ► I think just widget like information is enough for the Apple watch.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Everything past that I think is maybe a little, a little bit excessive.

00:57:56 ◼   ► Like, and I think Apple has kind of moved along this line themselves, which is why the smart

00:58:01 ◼   ► stack exists.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:03 ◼   ► It's like, really, we can just give you the information.

00:58:06 ◼   ► It's like glances back in the day.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:08 ◼   ► It's just like, oh man, you don't really need to be doing computing on your watch.

00:58:14 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:14 ◼   ► Like, and I think we can probably all attest that anything gets anything more than I want

00:58:20 ◼   ► to look at this very frequently, you'll just grab your iPhone.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Right.

00:58:25 ◼   ► For sure.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Like if you can just see the information you need, like that's kind of enough.

00:58:30 ◼   ► And I think the smart stack achieves that.

00:58:32 ◼   ► And, and, and I, I think it's, it's great.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Like, and I think it does a pretty decent job of surfacing which ones I need at any particular

00:58:41 ◼   ► time.

00:58:43 ◼   ► So I, I like that combination a lot.

00:58:45 ◼   ► I would like them to, to lean into that even more.

00:58:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:49 ◼   ► I think they've, they've really struggled with how much interaction they want you to do on

00:58:54 ◼   ► the watch early in its life, like with glances, you know, a feature that's, that's now long

00:58:59 ◼   ► gone.

00:59:00 ◼   ► It was clear at the time that part of the reason that was there is because the watch couldn't

00:59:07 ◼   ► do very much, right?

00:59:08 ◼   ► That the app experience was actually kind of bad on the first several versions of watch

00:59:12 ◼   ► I mean, you had the thing with like watch kit, I mean, the UI is just like streaming off

00:59:18 ◼   ► the phone, super weird stuff in hindsight.

00:59:22 ◼   ► But I still think it does still shine in those brief interactions, which is why the smart

00:59:37 ◼   ► stack I think is such a good idea in a way it's not in a way it is the spiritual successor to

00:59:43 ◼   ► glances.

00:59:43 ◼   ► I do think that if I want to go deeper, I can go deeper, I can go to a full app experience.

00:59:51 ◼   ► I think I do think that is important for the Apple watch, but I also think they could do

00:59:57 ◼   ► more to make smart stack and widgets and other things more useful.

01:00:02 ◼   ► Like I would, as a non-original thought, I would love that that scrolled up smart stack view

01:00:06 ◼   ► that has just the time and like your list of widgets.

01:00:09 ◼   ► I would, I would have that as my watch face because I actually like seeing sort of my top

01:00:14 ◼   ► three things.

01:00:15 ◼   ► And, you know, you can build a widget with like individual complications.

01:00:18 ◼   ► I like that look.

01:00:20 ◼   ► And then I can scroll and see stuff more easily than I can on complications.

01:00:23 ◼   ► So I think there's room for them to improve, but, but I do think apps have a place on the

01:00:28 ◼   ► Apple watch still.

01:00:29 ◼   ► Do you remember the Siri face?

01:00:31 ◼   ► I do.

01:00:32 ◼   ► Oh my God.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:33 ◼   ► How that thing, how that thing would rip with Siri AI.

01:00:37 ◼   ► Like why is it not back?

01:00:38 ◼   ► Yep.

01:00:39 ◼   ► I used the Siri face for so long and then they were like, we're not doing that anymore.

01:00:43 ◼   ► It's like, okay, okay.

01:00:45 ◼   ► Sorry, I suppose.

01:00:47 ◼   ► But that, but you know, there is that, but yes, I can see that, that like it, the

01:00:53 ◼   ► person that wants the Apple watch to be informational, like just having it just always locked to

01:00:59 ◼   ► that view is ideal.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Where I do like it to be nice looking in some way.

01:01:06 ◼   ► And I think for me now, the way that it is the nicest looking is with photos.

01:01:09 ◼   ► Sure.

01:01:10 ◼   ► I think, I think it's, I think it is a very good look and it's fun.

01:01:14 ◼   ► And it's surprising.

01:01:16 ◼   ► And also their, their system for like where it puts the clock and stuff has gotten so good.

01:01:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:22 ◼   ► I think it's a, I think it's a great feature.

01:01:24 ◼   ► The, the, I really, if you've never tried the photos, watch face in the last like three

01:01:29 ◼   ► years or whatever, when they, when they changed it, I really recommend it.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Like they have, you know, you can choose people or you can choose like buildings or, you know,

01:01:39 ◼   ► like nature scenes and stuff or pets.

01:01:42 ◼   ► Um, if you've not tried it, um, if you've not tried it, just try it.

01:01:45 ◼   ► Like, even if you think like, Oh man, I'm like such a, I want my data person.

01:01:51 ◼   ► Like just give it a go.

01:01:52 ◼   ► Cause it is, it's truly delightful.

01:01:55 ◼   ► Um, as of an experience.

01:01:56 ◼   ► It's a great weekend watch face.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:00 ◼   ► For, for me, like I, I like having the data, like my next, my next event, fitness stuff,

01:02:06 ◼   ► weather.

01:02:06 ◼   ► I like having that during the work week, but on the weekends where like generally have much

01:02:11 ◼   ► fewer events, photos plus weather is like, is plenty for me.

01:02:16 ◼   ► So that's a great way.

01:02:17 ◼   ► I think at least to sort of explore it.

01:02:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

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01:03:47 ◼   ► So I wanted to mention something that Apple has done, but that really caught me by surprise.

01:03:53 ◼   ► They have announced an official MCP server for Safari.

01:03:57 ◼   ► This is now available as part of the Safari technology preview, which is like the beta version of Safari.

01:04:06 ◼   ► And, uh, it's called the Safari MCP server.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Um, pretty generic name.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Um, I tested it.

01:04:14 ◼   ► I installed it last night and it quickly became some of my favorite, uh, AI related thing that Apple has done to date.

01:04:22 ◼   ► To the point where I think it's actually the best, um, MCP server for a browser that is available at the moment.

01:04:29 ◼   ► Now, let me explain.

01:04:31 ◼   ► I'm sure you guys have questions.

01:04:32 ◼   ► If you have questions, please get them in now so that we can set the baseline for this topic.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Before we go further.

01:04:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:41 ◼   ► We haven't talked about MCP in a minute.

01:04:43 ◼   ► Give us a broad overview of what MCP does and why it's interesting in a browser.

01:04:49 ◼   ► MCP is a standard, uh, that is being maintained by an open source foundation, um, that allows large language models in chatbots and agents to connect to and use and retrieve data from external sources.

01:05:13 ◼   ► It's a protocol.

01:05:16 ◼   ► It's MCP stands for model context protocol.

01:05:19 ◼   ► It's a protocol with an open source.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Spec that has been maintained by this foundation that defines how chatbots and agents.

01:05:32 ◼   ► So your chat GPT or your cloud or your cloud code, whatever, can connect to a remote source to perform an action or retrieve data from it.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Uh, examples of popular MCP servers can be Gmail, for example, uh, if you want to retrieve a message or send an email to do list.

01:05:55 ◼   ► If you want to get your tasks or edit a task and there are thousands of MCP servers.

01:06:05 ◼   ► Um, the MCP is, um, the MCP is different from just letting an agent use a CLI.

01:06:16 ◼   ► We have talked about command line interfaces before, and there are two schools of thought.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Essentially, the, the CLI school of thought is agents are so intelligent.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Now you just give them a CLI and you let them figure out the CLI without having to be based on a protocol, be based on a spec.

01:06:37 ◼   ► Whereas MCP is, no, no, actually, this is a predefined spec and MCP servers need to respect and adopt this specific spec.

01:06:48 ◼   ► Um, I use them both for different reasons and MCP has improved a lot over the past year.

01:06:59 ◼   ► It used to be a year ago that if you installed too many MCP servers in your cloud, cloud would become extremely slow because it needed to read all of the instructions for all of the MCP servers and all the tools contained inside each server.

01:07:19 ◼   ► Uh, now that's no longer the case.

01:07:20 ◼   ► Uh, the MCP spec is now much leaner, lightweight and dynamic.

01:07:25 ◼   ► And, uh, the, the, the big new feature that they added to the MCP spec a few months ago is UI.

01:07:33 ◼   ► It's called MCP UI.

01:07:35 ◼   ► And that allows MCP servers, not just to show you text, but to actually show you little custom interfaces made with CSS and HTML.

01:07:46 ◼   ► It's the same standard that OpenAI is using with apps in ChatGPT.

01:07:51 ◼   ► They're literally based on the same technology.

01:07:53 ◼   ► And, uh, finally, I will say MCP, MCP servers come in two flavors.

01:07:58 ◼   ► You have your local servers that are running on your computer, such as the case for Safari that we'll talk about in a minute.

01:08:05 ◼   ► And you have a cloud-based MCP servers, such as a Todoist.

01:08:12 ◼   ► And finally, finally, sometimes you will see these things being advertised as MCP or the word connectors.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:24 ◼   ► They're the same thing.

01:08:25 ◼   ► They're based on the same idea.

01:08:26 ◼   ► They're based on the same technology.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Connectors is just a better English word for, you know, this concept.

01:08:33 ◼   ► It's user-friendly.

01:08:34 ◼   ► It's intimidating.

01:08:34 ◼   ► Yeah, MCP, it's like...

01:08:36 ◼   ► And it's also just a better phrase.

01:08:38 ◼   ► Like, it just makes more sense.

01:08:39 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a connector.

01:08:39 ◼   ► You're connecting this model to some other thing, the source that you have.

01:08:44 ◼   ► So that's the general description.

01:08:47 ◼   ► Now, Safari MCP...

01:08:49 ◼   ► Okay, so can I ask a question now, then?

01:08:51 ◼   ► So, like, you know, my thought about MCP was always just that, like, it was like a storage of data that you had, and that you were connecting an LLM to that data.

01:09:02 ◼   ► How is Safari an MCP?

01:09:05 ◼   ► So, MCP is not data storage.

01:09:07 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:08 ◼   ► MCP is a syntax that defines...

01:09:13 ◼   ► It's a server protocol that defines what happens when a large language model reaches your app and wants to do something with it.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:26 ◼   ► The spec defines the syntax for different types of tools, different types of schemas, and how the data is supposed to be exchanged between those two, between your app and between the LLM.

01:09:39 ◼   ► And it's usually JSON-based.

01:09:41 ◼   ► It gets more complicated than that, but this is not a developer podcast.

01:09:46 ◼   ► No.

01:09:47 ◼   ► And also, I'm not a developer by trade.

01:09:49 ◼   ► So, with Safari, they're running a little server on your Mac.

01:09:57 ◼   ► This is always the case with MCP.

01:10:00 ◼   ► There needs to be a server behind it.

01:10:01 ◼   ► In this case, it's a local server that is living somewhere inside the technologypreview.app.

01:10:10 ◼   ► If you show package contents, I'm sure it's in here somewhere.

01:10:14 ◼   ► They have the full path in the blog post.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Let's see.

01:10:20 ◼   ► So, this is actually so un-Apple-like.

01:10:23 ◼   ► It's kind of refreshing.

01:10:24 ◼   ► They're giving you the full commands to run in your terminal.

01:10:27 ◼   ► So, it's inside applications, safari technology previews, slash contents, slash macOS.

01:10:32 ◼   ► It's called Safari Driver.

01:10:35 ◼   ► So, Safari Driver is a server that runs on your Mac that contains the MCP.

01:10:42 ◼   ► So, this server contains a bunch of commands.

01:10:46 ◼   ► These are called tools.

01:10:48 ◼   ► There's things like close tab, create tab, evaluate JavaScript, list tabs, navigate to URL, and so forth.

01:10:58 ◼   ► They're like 20 or so tools.

01:11:00 ◼   ► And when you connect to the MCP to Cloud or Codex or whatever, it gets, it talks to Safari.

01:11:08 ◼   ► Safari says, I have these 20 tools.

01:11:10 ◼   ► And it performs these actions.

01:11:13 ◼   ► When you do, you will see that Safari will create a standalone automation session, which means it opens a separate window.

01:11:22 ◼   ► And it will perform the actions that you ask.

01:11:24 ◼   ► You will see a message at the top of the Safari window that says, this session is being controlled by Cloud or by Codex.

01:11:32 ◼   ► The UI for it is not as fancy as Cloud in Chrome or computer use by OpenAI.

01:11:41 ◼   ► It's kind of bare bones, but it gets the job done.

01:11:44 ◼   ► And I got to tell you, it's probably the best browser MCP I've used.

01:11:52 ◼   ► I had this feeling when I saw the list of tools in the blog post.

01:11:57 ◼   ► It looked really elegant, but also comprehensive.

01:12:01 ◼   ► A good sign for a well-done MCP is when you don't have like hundreds of tools.

01:12:10 ◼   ► You see 20, 30 tools that cover all the essentials.

01:12:18 ◼   ► More so, they map these tools to specific features, right?

01:12:26 ◼   ► So, that's a good, that's usually a sign of an MCP server that was designed with a clean design in mind.

01:12:41 ◼   ► Like, for example, the fact that you have close tab and create tab instead of tab operations, right?

01:12:52 ◼   ► There are many MCP developers that make this mistake of sort of putting multiple actions inside the same tool.

01:13:02 ◼   ► Whereas the more elegant approach is to say, no, close tab is one action.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Create tab is another action.

01:13:08 ◼   ► List tabs is another action altogether.

01:13:12 ◼   ► And so, that's good design.

01:13:13 ◼   ► And the result is that when the agent talks to the MCP server, it doesn't get confused.

01:13:20 ◼   ► It doesn't...

01:13:23 ◼   ► And I've seen this happen all the time with some MCP server, where the agent was talking to it,

01:13:28 ◼   ► and he performed one action instead of another, because the MCP was not really well designed at all.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:33 ◼   ► And I saw this, and I got a sense that, like, oh, this looks really elegant and really nicely done.

01:13:38 ◼   ► And so, to confirm...

01:13:39 ◼   ► It's just surprising to me that, like...

01:13:41 ◼   ► It's very surprising.

01:13:43 ◼   ► No, no, no, no.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Why does the LLM need to open tabs?

01:13:46 ◼   ► Like, I don't...

01:13:46 ◼   ► That is, like, weird to me.

01:13:47 ◼   ► Oh, if...

01:13:48 ◼   ► Oh, man.

01:13:49 ◼   ► Let me tell you.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Why does it open tabs for?

01:13:51 ◼   ► It's a computer.

01:13:52 ◼   ► Like, I just...

01:13:54 ◼   ► What do you mean?

01:13:55 ◼   ► Well, like, I think the browser use stuff is fascinating to me, because it's like, I would

01:14:00 ◼   ► just assume that the computer talks to the web in a way that is not with UI loading a web

01:14:08 ◼   ► page.

01:14:08 ◼   ► It's just...

01:14:08 ◼   ► It seems very, like, brute force, I guess.

01:14:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:14:13 ◼   ► So, the reason behind all of this is, like, all this stuff with browser MCP started because

01:14:20 ◼   ► of web developers needing to test their apps with LLMs.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

01:14:26 ◼   ► So, that's...

01:14:26 ◼   ► That makes no sense, then.

01:14:27 ◼   ► So, that's why you want to create a tab, and you have actions for, like, measuring network

01:14:32 ◼   ► requests, or evaluating JavaScript, or switching the viewport, for example.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Like, whenever I'm working on one of my web apps, or the web apps that I have for the Mac

01:14:45 ◼   ► or Steam, I always have one of these browser MCPs installed, because you want to do things

01:14:51 ◼   ► like, all right, now, do the testing.

01:14:54 ◼   ► So, like, test the iPhone layout.

01:14:56 ◼   ► That makes more sense.

01:14:57 ◼   ► Because I'm thinking, like, if it's, say, it's, like, booking something or whatever, and

01:15:01 ◼   ► I know they do this, but it's just, like, I would figure there should just be a database

01:15:04 ◼   ► talking to a database, as opposed to, like...

01:15:07 ◼   ► Yeah, the problem is that...

01:15:07 ◼   ► It's going to go open and click around for you, or whatever.

01:15:10 ◼   ► The problem is that sometimes those services don't have databases.

01:15:13 ◼   ► It's, like, when I'm researching, like, vacation rentals or something, booking.com doesn't

01:15:20 ◼   ► have, at least that I know, like, an MCP or an API.

01:15:23 ◼   ► So, that's why the agent has to use a browser like a fake person, essentially.

01:15:28 ◼   ► It's just such a...

01:15:29 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:29 ◼   ► It just feels so inefficient, but if it's all it can do, it's all it can do.

01:15:32 ◼   ► It is.

01:15:33 ◼   ► But this all started because of web developers, and there's a more than legitimate use for

01:15:40 ◼   ► that, so anyway, I had a suspicion that it was really well done, so I asked Codex about

01:15:45 ◼   ► it, and I was like, hey, set this up, and then I want you to run a test and compare the

01:15:52 ◼   ► three browser MCPs.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Playwright, which is made by Microsoft, the Chrome extension that you have, which is made

01:15:59 ◼   ► by OpenAI, and the new Safari MCP.

01:16:03 ◼   ► And I want you to be honest and explain why you prefer one of the other.

01:16:07 ◼   ► And Codex, you know, I thought, oh, it's just going to prefer the OpenAI thing because of,

01:16:13 ◼   ► like, internal bias or whatever.

01:16:15 ◼   ► But it didn't.

01:16:16 ◼   ► It actually said, I actually think the Safari MCP by Apple is more ergonomic for me because

01:16:22 ◼   ► the tools are nicer.

01:16:23 ◼   ► The performance is great, and the documentation is great.

01:16:28 ◼   ► The description of the tools are really nicely done, and it feels better designed for an agent

01:16:36 ◼   ► than Playwright or my own Chrome extension.

01:16:39 ◼   ► And I thought, oh, well, that's surprising.

01:16:41 ◼   ► So I've been using it all day.

01:16:44 ◼   ► It's pretty great.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Just maybe not as fancy from a visual perspective.

01:16:49 ◼   ► Like, when you use Cloud in Chrome or Chrome with Codex, you got, like, a special cursor on

01:16:57 ◼   ► screen, and the window that is being controlled by the agent gets, like, a special color.

01:17:03 ◼   ► I can imagine those things changing.

01:17:05 ◼   ► It's more of a visual affair, but Apple can do it.

01:17:07 ◼   ► They have a really solid foundation now, technically speaking, and they can make it all, you know,

01:17:13 ◼   ► more visually nicer looking.

01:17:16 ◼   ► Do you think they'll offer this kind of stuff as, like, an API?

01:17:19 ◼   ► I guess they don't need to, right?

01:17:21 ◼   ► They don't need to, because it's, yeah, never mind.

01:17:24 ◼   ► That was a silly question.

01:17:25 ◼   ► The MCP is the developer tool.

01:17:27 ◼   ► They don't need to add more developer tools to that.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I mean, obviously this will be, if I were to guess, this will be locked behind

01:17:34 ◼   ► enabling the developer menu in Safari.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Also, before you can use it, you need to toggle a checkbox that asks for your password or touch ID.

01:17:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:47 ◼   ► That is called, let's see, you need to enable the developer menu.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Then you go into the developer menu, and it's called Allow Remote Automation and External Agents.

01:17:56 ◼   ► So you need to enable that, and then you're off to the races.

01:18:01 ◼   ► And this joins the Xcode MCP that Apple did.

01:18:07 ◼   ► So Apple now has two MCP servers that I know of, Xcode and Safari.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Please make more.

01:18:13 ◼   ► I've heard really good things about the Xcode stuff, too.

01:18:17 ◼   ► It's really well done, too.

01:18:18 ◼   ► It seems like this is a technology that they understand and are doing good with.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Yeah, they're doing a good job.

01:18:25 ◼   ► Please make more of them.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:18:28 ◼   ► I think that does it.

01:18:30 ◼   ► Anybody got anything else?

01:18:32 ◼   ► We did it.

01:18:33 ◼   ► I think we did it.

01:18:34 ◼   ► We did it.

01:18:34 ◼   ► We've made it to the end.

01:18:37 ◼   ► That means I'm going to tell you a bunch of stuff if you're ready.

01:18:40 ◼   ► Links to things we spoke about are in the show notes.

01:18:45 ◼   ► They're in your podcast player, and they're also on the web at relay.fm slash connected slash 610.

01:18:54 ◼   ► You can do a bunch of cool stuff at that website because websites are cool.

01:19:00 ◼   ► They don't know it's a nice place sometimes.

01:19:02 ◼   ► You can leave us feedback.

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01:19:08 ◼   ► There's a form there on the site.

01:19:10 ◼   ► And you can join and get Connected Pro, the longer and ad-free version of the show that we do each and every week.

01:19:17 ◼   ► If you want more of us in the meantime, you can find Federico over at maxstories.net, where he is the editor-in-chief.

01:19:24 ◼   ► You can find Mike across a bunch of shows here on Relay and his writing at theenthusiast.net.

01:19:29 ◼   ► And you can find my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:19:33 ◼   ► I'd like to thank Squarespace for sponsoring this episode.

01:19:36 ◼   ► And until next time, guys, say goodbye.

01:19:39 ◼   ► Bye, y'all.