Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 601. We survived the clip show. And now we're back. The normal, normal episode. I'm your annual chairman, Stephen Hackett. I am joined by Mike Hurley.

00:00:24 ◼   ► It's a pleasure to be here as always. Hello. Once again, the meat inside of this sandwich. And I'm happy to introduce keynote chairman Federico Vatici.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Hello, Mr. Meat. How are you? That's what they call me. I'm great. I'm great. I'm great. I'm really good. Federico, Mac Gaming has returned and it's back. Back in business.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Sure. I saw a link on Mac Stories. So we spoke about this a while ago. Game Hub, which is...

00:00:54 ◼   ► It's... Game Hub is an app for Android made by a company called GameSir. GameSir make gaming hardware like controllers.

00:01:04 ◼   ► And it turns out that this app called Game Hub, which is on Android, has been using some work that Valve had been doing secretly to allow for emulation of PC games on Android.

00:01:18 ◼   ► GameSir announced that GameSir announced that Game Hub was coming to the Mac. So I assume it's doing a similar thing, really, because it's running... It's emulating Linux on ARM, right? It's essentially what's happening here. Like Linux... Because Steam's games are ported to Linux. So that's kind of how that works. Am I simplifying that in an okay way?

00:01:46 ◼   ► In an okay way? No, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah, that's... Okay. Yeah.

00:01:50 ◼   ► I'm doing... This is a massive oversimplification just for the sake of the conversation. And so they announced that they were bringing this to the Mac. We spoke about this when it happened. There seems to be... It seems to be in a beta and getting out into the world.

00:02:05 ◼   ► And one of our favorite YouTubers around Handheld Gaming, Retro Game Core, Russ did a video on his YouTube channel kind of showing off a bunch of PC games that are running right now on the Mac, which are not Mac games and are not available on the Mac.

00:02:24 ◼   ► He is running them on a MacBook Pro with Game Hub.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Now, only, you know, maybe about half of the 20 games that he played were playable, but this is kind of how you would expect as this starts to roll out.

00:02:37 ◼   ► It's usually like a lot of tweaking starts to happen on the back end and more and more games become available.

00:02:42 ◼   ► But the games that did work, the performance was very good. This is really interesting.

00:02:47 ◼   ► So essentially, this is completely like on the up and up. You're playing your purchased Steam games on the Mac via Game Hub. Supercore.

00:02:59 ◼   ► It really shows off just the raw power of Apple Silicon and how it continues. The theory that with any emulation, video game emulation, you throw compute at the problem, you're most likely going to fix that problem.

00:03:17 ◼   ► That theory continues to hold true. Because, I mean, we're looking at a AAA game like Pragmata made by Capcom.

00:03:25 ◼   ► One of the early contenders for Game of the Year came out two weeks ago. It can already be emulated on a Mac with Game Hub.

00:03:32 ◼   ► And, I mean, that to me just essentially shows off how with this kind of emulation layer, the more powerful CPU with some GPU help on the side,

00:03:44 ◼   ► because supposedly Game Hub will take advantage of some metal acceleration in terms of frame interpolation and that sort of stuff.

00:03:52 ◼   ► But it mostly, like any other emulation, it mostly falls on the CPU.

00:03:57 ◼   ► And when you have a CPU as powerful as Apple Silicon on the Mac, of course, depending on the kind of Mac model that you have,

00:04:04 ◼   ► but you can just plow your way through these games.

00:04:07 ◼   ► And, I mean, it's just, at this point, it's honestly wild to me that Apple is not doing anything more official or modern

00:04:17 ◼   ► than the Mac game-porting toolkit that they sort of tried a couple of years ago.

00:04:23 ◼   ► This is clearly the future.

00:04:25 ◼   ► The future is not the Apple convincing a whole bunch of developers to come and make native Mac games.

00:04:32 ◼   ► The future is to accept that the majority of gaming happens on Windows and, to an extent, Linux,

00:04:38 ◼   ► and do whatever you can with an emulation layer in the middle to tap into that entire market

00:04:44 ◼   ► without having to go a la carte and convince all of those developers to please make a Mac version

00:04:50 ◼   ► like 18 months after the original game launched on PC.

00:04:54 ◼   ► So, the game, just so I'm clear, the game-porting toolkit, it's still around, but it's a developer tools, right?

00:05:02 ◼   ► Like, if I wanted to play a PC game, I couldn't use game-porting toolkit software, right?

00:05:09 ◼   ► There used to be a UI for it called Whiskey that's been since discontinued, I believe, by the developer.

00:05:16 ◼   ► I'm not sure if somebody else made a, basically, like, a wrapper around the toolkit after Whiskey.

00:05:23 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:24 ◼   ► And I personally still think that it is not impossible to imagine that at some point in the future,

00:05:31 ◼   ► Valve just make this a reality themselves, rather than needing to use a tool like Gamehub,

00:05:39 ◼   ► but we'll see when we get there.

00:05:41 ◼   ► I can imagine it, because they're trying to make this work.

00:05:46 ◼   ► I mean, they've got a lot of conflicting desires of Valve with wanting to also be a big-time hardware maker,

00:05:52 ◼   ► but that isn't working for them right now, through no fault of their own.

00:05:56 ◼   ► So, I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in the future they made this somewhat official, but we'll see.

00:06:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:02 ◼   ► All right, we spoke about Clips last week.

00:06:07 ◼   ► Apple's now long-gone-but-not-dead-in-our-hearts video editor for the iPhone.

00:06:14 ◼   ► And Richard wrote in and said,

00:06:16 ◼   ► What a joy Clips was.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:20 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:20 ◼   ► That set the tone.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Set the tone.

00:06:23 ◼   ► I was a creative at an Apple store when it was introduced, and we had tons of fun demoing it for customers and using it for my own fun videos.

00:06:31 ◼   ► Look at how forward-thinking it was with its simplified interface, all of that graphic content, and the captions.

00:06:37 ◼   ► It was a true influence on all the newer social media video apps that have surpassed it today.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Thanks for the little, but now sad, trip down a software memory lane.

00:06:47 ◼   ► I'm just going to say, it wasn't an influence on any of these apps.

00:06:51 ◼   ► Like, it wasn't.

00:06:52 ◼   ► It may have been doing some things sooner.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Like, I think, you know, something like Edits, right, from Instagram, which does automatic captions and stuff.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Clips had nothing to do with the life of Edits.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Yes, it didn't.

00:07:04 ◼   ► Even though, yes, it was doing these things, and it was impressive that it was doing them.

00:07:09 ◼   ► I really don't think we can draw a lineage between these tools.

00:07:13 ◼   ► It's more about what people are asking for as opposed to Clips' dominance in the landscape.

00:07:20 ◼   ► I think that's probably fair.

00:07:24 ◼   ► There is something to be said, I think, of, like, Apple having a tool like this that's not directly tied to, like, Instagram or Snap or whatever.

00:07:35 ◼   ► But I don't think Clips was ever going to be able to compete with those either because it wasn't built into those tools, right?

00:07:42 ◼   ► Like, Edits and CapCut and these other tools, like, they're popular because they know and are built for, like, exactly the output.

00:07:52 ◼   ► And Clips was a little bit different in that regard, and I think, I don't know if it suffered for it, but it definitely wasn't, like, look, it's kind of the same problem I think Casey ran into with his app for putting emoji on your kids' faces, whose name is Escape Me.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Oh.

00:08:11 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:08:13 ◼   ► Sorry, Casey.

00:08:14 ◼   ► I'm scanning my brain and it's not working.

00:08:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I was just thinking about fast text.

00:08:18 ◼   ► I was like, there must be a pun in here somewhere.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:21 ◼   ► But it...

00:08:22 ◼   ► Peak of view.

00:08:23 ◼   ► No, that was a long ago.

00:08:25 ◼   ► No, masquerade, masquerade, masquerade.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Masquerade, there you go.

00:08:27 ◼   ► It's like...

00:08:28 ◼   ► What is peak of view?

00:08:28 ◼   ► What is peak of view, though?

00:08:29 ◼   ► That's where you can, like, say you want to show somebody some photos on your phone.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Ah, yes, yes.

00:08:36 ◼   ► But you don't want them to accidentally scroll to things they shouldn't see.

00:08:38 ◼   ► So you can, like, pre-select a bunch of images like a slideshow and send it to someone.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:08:43 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:44 ◼   ► So it's kind of like how, you know, masquerade was a really great idea.

00:08:48 ◼   ► Like, a lot of people want to use emoji to just hide something in a photo.

00:08:54 ◼   ► But the second you could do that, like, when editing your Instagram story, like, okay, well, that requires less friction.

00:09:01 ◼   ► And I think Clips was probably never going to be able to overcome that friction, even if they were there first with some of their ideas.

00:09:09 ◼   ► Because even, like, something like edits, like, Instagram has an incentive to update that frequently with new features.

00:09:20 ◼   ► And it is, like, I can't speak to CapCut, but edits I use a lot.

00:09:24 ◼   ► And it's always getting better at a rate that Apple wouldn't do because they just, their skin is not in the game on this one.

00:09:33 ◼   ► You know, like, they don't have a social network that is propped up by the content that is created in Clips.

00:09:39 ◼   ► So something like edits is going to receive more features because Instagram want content to be put on Instagram.

00:09:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's fair.

00:09:49 ◼   ► Would you like some more details on my backup journey?

00:09:54 ◼   ► I think we may be coming to a close on this.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:09:56 ◼   ► Because I think I feel pretty content.

00:09:58 ◼   ► So I now have iDrive installed and it's fully backed up my Mac and my Dropbox account via their API integration, which is actually very cool the way that it does that.

00:10:09 ◼   ► I just have a little dashboard that I can go onto the web and I can see that it's backing up my Dropbox kind of, like, on its own.

00:10:14 ◼   ► And I like that my internet connection is not involved in that at all, right?

00:10:19 ◼   ► Like, I think that's actually quite a nice feature.

00:10:22 ◼   ► I have a criticism with the iDrive app.

00:10:25 ◼   ► They have a menu bar app that only sometimes seems to appear.

00:10:29 ◼   ► And so, like, knowing that your backup is occurring is, like, you have to open the full app.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I have to open the full app most of the time to see that it's happened.

00:10:39 ◼   ► And I'm sure in time I'm not going to bother about this anymore because it's just doing its thing in the background.

00:10:45 ◼   ► But as I'm a new customer of iDrive, I'm like, are you actually doing what I want you to be doing?

00:10:50 ◼   ► And it seems like it is.

00:10:52 ◼   ► I had another person contact me about a crucial drive failing with APFS.

00:10:57 ◼   ► I don't know what to do about this.

00:11:00 ◼   ► I'm kind of in it at this point.

00:11:02 ◼   ► I have things set up.

00:11:03 ◼   ► If my drive fails, I will either start again or will move to something else.

00:11:08 ◼   ► But the biggest thing for me right now is I have everything set up the way that I want to.

00:11:12 ◼   ► And that's what I was looking for.

00:11:14 ◼   ► And so I'll just deal with it if the time comes.

00:11:17 ◼   ► I'm not, you know, all of this is like nothing is going on that drive that doesn't live somewhere else.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Like that's the point of it.

00:11:25 ◼   ► It's my Dropbox and Dropbox is on Dropbox and now lives in iDrive.

00:11:30 ◼   ► So I will just, I'll deal with this in the future if I have to.

00:11:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:35 ◼   ► I don't think it's APFS for the record.

00:11:39 ◼   ► I think that's just how people are using SSDs now.

00:11:43 ◼   ► I think just crucial maybe struggles with reliability when compared to the likes of Samsung.

00:11:50 ◼   ► But, but yeah, you've got it now.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Like it is.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Samsung is what I would have wanted, but I couldn't get a drive.

00:11:56 ◼   ► They actually have a drive at the size that I wanted.

00:11:59 ◼   ► And if they did, it would have been massively more expensive.

00:12:02 ◼   ► So I'm gone with where I am going right now.

00:12:04 ◼   ► And I just hope that it lasts long enough.

00:12:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:07 ◼   ► And because it's a backup, right?

00:12:10 ◼   ► Like if something happens to it, it's like it stinks and you got to deal with it, but it's

00:12:14 ◼   ► not, it's not going to like blow up your work week because you can't suddenly can't get your

00:12:19 ◼   ► files.

00:12:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:20 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:12:20 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And then Federico, I mentioned last week that I was using tail scale and I got it all set up.

00:12:27 ◼   ► And I think you had a couple of questions for me and I'm intrigued because there at least

00:12:31 ◼   ► sounds like features that I should know about.

00:12:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Most of all, I just, first of all, I wanted to know if you are, um, I know that you are

00:12:39 ◼   ► a Cloud co-work primarily user, right?

00:12:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:44 ◼   ► So since you have a Telnet as it's called now, I was kind of wondering if you have created

00:12:50 ◼   ► any little web apps for yourself using Cloud that you can access on your private network.

00:12:56 ◼   ► So there's a couple of things here.

00:12:58 ◼   ► So I have created some web apps that are just local apps.

00:13:01 ◼   ► They're just, I launched them via double clicking on HTML files, right?

00:13:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:13:05 ◼   ► I can access them somewhere else.

00:13:08 ◼   ► Can I now?

00:13:08 ◼   ► Can I use tail scale?

00:13:09 ◼   ► How does that work?

00:13:10 ◼   ► Well, okay.

00:13:11 ◼   ► So the idea is that you ask your agent of choice.

00:13:14 ◼   ► In this case, it's Cloud for you.

00:13:16 ◼   ► Um, usually the way I go about this is that I have some local apps and I ask Cloud or Codex,

00:13:24 ◼   ► hey, can you, uh, create a, uh, launch the agent, um, that keeps these up, up and running

00:13:31 ◼   ► on my Mac?

00:13:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:13:32 ◼   ► So that, you know, if my computer restarts or something crashes, the web app, you know, comes

00:13:38 ◼   ► up again and it's online and assign it to a particular port on this computer so that I can just type

00:13:46 ◼   ► my tail scale address, uh, followed by a colon and the name of the port.

00:13:50 ◼   ► And that basically becomes a persistent URL to access that, uh, web app every single time.

00:13:57 ◼   ► And only I can access it because it's part of my tail net.

00:13:59 ◼   ► That sounds very interesting because I have a couple right now and they're just available

00:14:04 ◼   ► on, on one of my Macs and I would like to not have that be the case.

00:14:09 ◼   ► So I'm going to look into that.

00:14:10 ◼   ► I didn't even know this was a thing.

00:14:12 ◼   ► So that's cool.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:13 ◼   ► Obviously the idea is that you do this on a Mac that is always on as always accessible.

00:14:17 ◼   ► I have one now.

00:14:18 ◼   ► I have one now.

00:14:18 ◼   ► It's always on.

00:14:19 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:14:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:20 ◼   ► So you can do that.

00:14:22 ◼   ► And another feature, uh, actually OTJ got me into this one.

00:14:25 ◼   ► Um, I was looking for a way to, I was wondering if there was an easier way for me to share

00:14:33 ◼   ► files from one computer to an iPhone or one computer to another using tail scale.

00:14:39 ◼   ► Turns out they have built exactly this feature.

00:14:41 ◼   ► It's called tail drop.

00:14:43 ◼   ► Uh, you need to turn it on manually because it's still labeled as a beta feature, but it's

00:14:48 ◼   ► basically like, it's kind of like airdrop, but for devices on your tail net, the idea being

00:14:55 ◼   ► that every device gets a nickname on your network and you, you basically say, um, I mean, I mostly

00:15:04 ◼   ► use it with cloud or codecs, uh, but I can just say things like tail drop this to my iPhone

00:15:10 ◼   ► and tail drop essentially takes one file and copies it to a destination device.

00:15:17 ◼   ► Um, in the case of iOS, it puts it in a folder in the files app called tail scale.

00:15:25 ◼   ► And it just copies it.

00:15:26 ◼   ► It's a utility that copies files on your tail net from one device to another, and you can

00:15:32 ◼   ► use it manually from the share sheet, or you can use it with your agent of choice, uh, because

00:15:39 ◼   ► it's got a, it's got a command line integration.

00:15:42 ◼   ► So if you want to use it with cloud and you can say, Hey, take this file and send it, tail

00:15:48 ◼   ► drop it to my iPad.

00:15:49 ◼   ► And if you want to use it, cloud will do it very useful, very basic, but very useful.

00:15:54 ◼   ► And so, and I guess it's like the file sizes can be as big as I want.

00:16:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:01 ◼   ► It just copies the file, whatever.

00:16:03 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:16:04 ◼   ► And then I don't even need to be in the place, do I?

00:16:07 ◼   ► Like it's like with airdrop, I have to be in the physical location.

00:16:11 ◼   ► You can be anywhere.

00:16:12 ◼   ► But with this, I don't need to be.

00:16:13 ◼   ► Huh.

00:16:14 ◼   ► I'd look, I'm going to look into this.

00:16:16 ◼   ► So what I did, I grabbed a link to the official tail scale documentation for tail drop, send

00:16:23 ◼   ► it to, I sent it to Codex and I was like, okay, I want you to set this up for me based

00:16:27 ◼   ► on the official documentation and create a reusable skill for it.

00:16:31 ◼   ► And also, uh, my devices in my telnet have weird names.

00:16:36 ◼   ► And so I told Codex, uh, give them aliases.

00:16:39 ◼   ► So like, instead of being iPad 17 for whenever I say iPad or iPad pro, that's a, those are

00:16:48 ◼   ► nicknames for that device.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:50 ◼   ► And, uh, and I said, set it up so that you know how to use this.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And, uh, so whenever I need a file off of my Mac studio, uh, for example, that's, that's

00:16:59 ◼   ► what I can do.

00:17:00 ◼   ► I can talk to my agent to me like, Hey, can you grab that, uh, PDF from the downloads folder

00:17:05 ◼   ► and tail drop it to my iPhone.

00:17:08 ◼   ► And a couple of seconds later, it does that.

00:17:10 ◼   ► Oh, and you can do it from the iOS share sheet too.

00:17:13 ◼   ► You can do it from the share sheet.

00:17:15 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:17:15 ◼   ► You can do it from the Mac share sheet.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Yeah, man.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Tailscale is pretty cool.

00:17:20 ◼   ► I don't know why it's free, but it's incredible.

00:17:23 ◼   ► I don't understand tailscale.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:25 ◼   ► No one does.

00:17:26 ◼   ► No one does.

00:17:26 ◼   ► Like, I guess what they're doing is they build a free product that people like so much.

00:17:32 ◼   ► It's like how Slack started, right?

00:17:34 ◼   ► That you will convince your business to adopt it because you get so used to it.

00:17:39 ◼   ► I think that is the, Obsidian is like this too, right?

00:17:42 ◼   ► Like here is like a free product in the hopes that people will like it so much that businesses

00:17:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:47 ◼   ► Because they make money off of the team stuff.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:51 ◼   ► So I think that that's the idea, right?

00:17:53 ◼   ► People get so, it's funny to think that that was kind of how Slack, that was like Slack's

00:17:58 ◼   ► beginning as well.

00:17:58 ◼   ► Like you eventually, it becomes so useful that people want to use it at work and then the

00:18:05 ◼   ► work, like things that a corporation would need, they charge for.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And so that's how they make the money.

00:18:12 ◼   ► But I can't believe it's free.

00:18:13 ◼   ► They should have, I should pay them something.

00:18:15 ◼   ► I feel like, thank you, Tail Drop or Tail Scale.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Tail Scale.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:20 ◼   ► I've got it set up just on my home Mac Mini and then I have screens five, like the VNC remote

00:18:31 ◼   ► client.

00:18:31 ◼   ► You talked about this, Mike.

00:18:31 ◼   ► I have it set up so I can hit my Mac Mini via screen sharing from anywhere.

00:18:37 ◼   ► But I don't really have the need for, like there's no files on that Mac Mini and I guess

00:18:46 ◼   ► I do have files that are just on my MacBook Pro, but anything important is in Dropbox for

00:18:53 ◼   ► work or iCloud Drive for personal stuff.

00:18:56 ◼   ► And I can hit my NAS from the internet.

00:18:59 ◼   ► And so I don't, I have not really built out Tail Scale, like in the full, like it's on all

00:19:04 ◼   ► my computers and I'm not routing all my, all my like web traffic when I'm out and about

00:19:12 ◼   ► the coffee shop through my home network.

00:19:13 ◼   ► Like I haven't gone into it that far, but really, but there are times where like I need in my

00:19:18 ◼   ► network on a Mac that Mac Mini is always on and it lets me, uh, lets me do that.

00:19:24 ◼   ► Some people are hardcore about it though.

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00:20:20 ◼   ► For the support of the show and all of Relay.

00:20:26 ◼   ► So I had a pretty silly idea a few days ago, actually last week, told you guys about it.

00:20:35 ◼   ► You said, go for it.

00:20:37 ◼   ► And I did go for it all the way.

00:20:42 ◼   ► So it all started, you know, with this thought of like, I find most conversations about like

00:20:48 ◼   ► Tim Cook and John Turnus, you know, not boring, but like, yeah, I get it.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Like that happened.

00:20:56 ◼   ► How can we spice it up a little on the Connected program?

00:21:00 ◼   ► You know, because we like to do things our way.

00:21:02 ◼   ► So I came up with this thought of like, why don't we do a Tim Cook tier list of all Tim Cook

00:21:11 ◼   ► quotes over the years, since he's over the course of his CEO tenure at Apple.

00:21:17 ◼   ► He said a lot.

00:21:19 ◼   ► And, and I mean, of course, like that, I mean, that sounds funny, but it was still a pretty

00:21:25 ◼   ► basic idea.

00:21:26 ◼   ► Like, okay, let's collect a bunch of Tim Cook quotes and tier list the Tim Cook quotes.

00:21:32 ◼   ► That's, I mean, you know, fine, funny, but like not groundbreaking.

00:21:37 ◼   ► And then I realized, well, okay, well, how about I take this to the next level?

00:21:42 ◼   ► Fresh off my OpenAI codex subscription.

00:21:49 ◼   ► I thought, well, why don't I, you know, I don't want to gather all of the Tim Cook quotes

00:21:55 ◼   ► manually.

00:21:56 ◼   ► I'm going to have the AI gather those quotes on the web for me.

00:21:59 ◼   ► You know, the AI can search the web and scrape web pages.

00:22:03 ◼   ► I mean, it's literally what it does.

00:22:05 ◼   ► It did it already.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:06 ◼   ► The whole thing.

00:22:07 ◼   ► It's going to do it again.

00:22:08 ◼   ► You know, what's one more scraping in the grand scheme of things?

00:22:12 ◼   ► And, and so that was the next step.

00:22:16 ◼   ► And then the other, you know, so, so I guess there's a bunch of steps involved here.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Really, it basically cascaded into this idea of I'm going to vibe code my own unhinged Tim

00:22:31 ◼   ► Cook quote tier list web app, and I'm going to share it with my fellow connected hosts.

00:22:38 ◼   ► Yes.

00:22:39 ◼   ► And we can put screenshots.

00:22:42 ◼   ► I'm going to take a screenshot right now.

00:22:44 ◼   ► I've already put one in discord.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Okay.

00:22:46 ◼   ► Thank you, Mike.

00:22:47 ◼   ► We can put them in the show notes too.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Maybe a before and after or something we can have.

00:22:52 ◼   ► That is a, I sort of, I explicitly told, it was actually a funny design process because

00:22:58 ◼   ► I started the mockup in ChatGPT images too.

00:23:01 ◼   ► And I said, I want you to make a stupid, absolute silly web app for tier listing Tim Cook quotes.

00:23:10 ◼   ► Like, and I gave it a bunch of Tim Cook photos that I manually grabbed from the web.

00:23:15 ◼   ► And I said, go crazy, make it unhinged.

00:23:18 ◼   ► You chose these photos.

00:23:19 ◼   ► I chose the photos.

00:23:20 ◼   ► They're so good.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Because I, I Googled, I believe I Googled Tim Cook weird on Google images and that's what

00:23:27 ◼   ► it found.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And, and so I saved the photos to, to my downloads folder.

00:23:33 ◼   ► And then I gave them to, to, to ChatGPT.

00:23:36 ◼   ► I said, make a mockup that is unhinged and funny.

00:23:40 ◼   ► And then I took the mockup and I opened Codex and I said, I want you to follow this mockup and

00:23:46 ◼   ► implement it as a web app.

00:23:47 ◼   ► And it took a, it took a few hours because then I needed to make a database of quotes, double

00:23:53 ◼   ► check the quotes.

00:23:53 ◼   ► I needed a way to edit the quotes.

00:23:56 ◼   ► As we'll see in a couple of minutes, they needed some, um, massaging, uh, and I needed

00:24:03 ◼   ► to, to give you guys access to the web app, um, running on my Mac studio server.

00:24:09 ◼   ► I needed a way for you to make edits, not just me.

00:24:12 ◼   ► And obviously the interactions needed to work.

00:24:15 ◼   ► The one thing I didn't do was mobile support because the UI, this scrapbook style was so

00:24:23 ◼   ► involved and it wasn't necessary because we were, we were going to screen share at our

00:24:28 ◼   ► Macs.

00:24:28 ◼   ► So I just didn't want to bother wasting tokens on iPhone support.

00:24:32 ◼   ► It reminds me in the best possible way of like the bananas nature of like iOS four, five

00:24:40 ◼   ► and six.

00:24:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Right.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Someone would have shipped this and be like, yeah, it's pretty good.

00:24:44 ◼   ► You know, I believe, I believe somewhere in the prompt I said, uh, that's a different podcast.

00:24:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:50 ◼   ► Try and add some iOS six, like skeuomorphic throwbacks.

00:24:55 ◼   ► And I think as we will use together screen sharing the app today, we will come across

00:25:04 ◼   ► some hidden Easter eggs that I also added.

00:25:07 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:08 ◼   ► Good for us.

00:25:10 ◼   ► This, uh, the UI for this web app, it feels not just like iOS of that level, but like specifically

00:25:17 ◼   ► iPad iOS design of that time.

00:25:21 ◼   ► That is what it feels like to me where it's like, what if we made it look like it's a

00:25:26 ◼   ► photocopy of, uh, a piece of paper taken out of a ring binder or whatever.

00:25:32 ◼   ► It's like, okay, great.

00:25:33 ◼   ► Let's do that.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Let's do that.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Mike, uh, Mike, I believe you did the most editing of the three of us of those AI quotes.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Why?

00:25:41 ◼   ► Well, so it, what, what the, the system was able to do was to pull the interesting things

00:25:49 ◼   ► that Tim said, but it basically in every instance, didn't pull the correct part of the quote,

00:25:55 ◼   ► like did not pull the interesting part.

00:25:57 ◼   ► Um, and so there's, maybe we can start with this one just to, to explain my point.

00:26:04 ◼   ► So it's the, uh, the toaster fridge quote.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Um, essentially what the, the system pulled out was the, the quote said, I'm not introducing

00:26:15 ◼   ► that next week.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Like that was the quote that it pulled out, but then it has like, you know, you built in

00:26:21 ◼   ► a thing for a source so we can go check it.

00:26:23 ◼   ► And it, and the actual interesting quote is I read this thing.

00:26:27 ◼   ► You can converge a fridge and a toaster.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I'm not introducing that next week.

00:26:32 ◼   ► And so this is about like toaster fridge idea.

00:26:35 ◼   ► So like you can, you know, like this is Tim talking about like putting everything together.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I think the idea was putting together, uh, the iPad and Mac.

00:26:45 ◼   ► Tablet.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:47 ◼   ► And he's like, oh, you, you know, you want to make converge everything and make a toaster

00:26:50 ◼   ► fridge.

00:26:51 ◼   ► That's the quote, but it just pulled in.

00:26:53 ◼   ► I'm not introducing that next week, which I thought was very funny.

00:26:56 ◼   ► So I went in and added the correct part of the quote.

00:26:58 ◼   ► Which by the way, Apple totally a tangent, but, uh, quite famously, uh, uh, Apple has

00:27:05 ◼   ► this fixation with the kitchen appliances when it comes to computer hybrids.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Because if you recall in my interview with Craig Federighi last year, Craig used a different

00:27:15 ◼   ► metaphor, uh, used a spork as a metaphor for a convertible device, a spoon and a fork.

00:27:20 ◼   ► So it stays in the kitchen apparently when it comes to hybrid devices at Apple, uh, famously,

00:27:26 ◼   ► it started with Tim Cook and the toaster fridge, toaster fridge, toaster fridge.

00:27:30 ◼   ► So do we want to rank this one?

00:27:31 ◼   ► I think we should.

00:27:33 ◼   ► So here's the interesting things.

00:27:35 ◼   ► Like I don't, I was thinking about this today.

00:27:37 ◼   ► So obviously we're in standard tier, tier listing, this quote, uh, I read this thing.

00:27:41 ◼   ► You can converge a fridge and a toaster.

00:27:43 ◼   ► I'm not introducing that next week.

00:27:44 ◼   ► So that's very famous, very famous, very famous.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Toaster fridge is something we still use now.

00:27:49 ◼   ► It's similar.

00:27:50 ◼   ► I think in use case to the truck metaphor that Steve Jobs made.

00:27:55 ◼   ► So Jobs was not so much about home appliances, I guess.

00:27:57 ◼   ► No, no more vehicles, bicycles.

00:27:59 ◼   ► He was more vehicle based.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Bicycles, trucks.

00:28:02 ◼   ► I wonder what John, I wonder what John's metaphor sort of, uh, uh, theme will be.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Maybe animals.

00:28:09 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:28:10 ◼   ► It could be animals.

00:28:10 ◼   ► So boys, I have a theory I want to share on this show.

00:28:14 ◼   ► So friend of the show, we mentioned this last time, Austin Evans referenced a Wall Street

00:28:20 ◼   ► Journal article about John Ternus saying that he was fast around the Laguna Seca speedway.

00:28:28 ◼   ► Racetrack.

00:28:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:29 ◼   ► The, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a racetrack, but it's called the speedway.

00:28:31 ◼   ► The Instagram account, the new Hello Instagram account, Hello Apple, sorry.

00:28:40 ◼   ► They posted a reel, right?

00:28:42 ◼   ► That I sent to Steven because I, I thought it was so interesting.

00:28:46 ◼   ► Um, which I now don't see on their account, which is, let me see if I can find it.

00:28:53 ◼   ► Where is that gone?

00:28:54 ◼   ► Maybe they were, oh, they were reposting something.

00:28:55 ◼   ► So maybe it doesn't show up.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Uh, and it's from Porsche, right?

00:28:59 ◼   ► And it is a helmet, an Apple computer race helmet.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:04 ◼   ► Right.

00:29:04 ◼   ► And it is referencing a, an old, uh, Apple Porsche, um, race car, race car.

00:29:14 ◼   ► Thank you so much.

00:29:15 ◼   ► Uh, from when was this the eighties or something?

00:29:18 ◼   ► I think so.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Uh, which had like these Apple stripes on it and it had like the, it looked, you know,

00:29:24 ◼   ► Apple computer styled in the, in the Apple two font or whatever.

00:29:28 ◼   ► I know what you're going to say.

00:29:30 ◼   ► And, um, Porsche has a press release saying what you're going to say.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Really?

00:29:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:36 ◼   ► Okay.

00:29:37 ◼   ► So what I was, my theory was that John Ternus is driving this car.

00:29:42 ◼   ► Oh, no way.

00:29:43 ◼   ► No, no, no, no.

00:29:44 ◼   ► That's my theory.

00:29:45 ◼   ► No, he's too valuable now.

00:29:46 ◼   ► He's too valuable now.

00:29:47 ◼   ► My theory is John Ternus is getting in the Porsche race car.

00:29:51 ◼   ► That's my theory.

00:29:52 ◼   ► But okay, they have announced that they're doing the, the livery throwback.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:56 ◼   ► That part wasn't interesting to me.

00:29:57 ◼   ► What I'm saying is John Ternus is getting in this car.

00:30:00 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:30:00 ◼   ► I'm just putting it out there.

00:30:01 ◼   ► John, get in the car.

00:30:03 ◼   ► I mean, come on.

00:30:04 ◼   ► I think John's getting in the car.

00:30:05 ◼   ► That's the, that's what I'm doing.

00:30:06 ◼   ► Get in the car, John.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Do it.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Get in the car, John.

00:30:08 ◼   ► Um, anyway, anyway.

00:30:12 ◼   ► So we should say also, uh, we're, we're starting, we're doing the quotes in order.

00:30:18 ◼   ► Like in, we have organized them in years.

00:30:21 ◼   ► But right now we're just beginning in the 2011, 2011 to 2012.

00:30:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Era.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:27 ◼   ► I feel like I was building up to something that I never finished, which is, sorry.

00:30:32 ◼   ► Uh, what is the, the, the theme?

00:30:35 ◼   ► Like, sorry.

00:30:36 ◼   ► How are we thinking about the tiering?

00:30:37 ◼   ► Right?

00:30:38 ◼   ► So like, what is an S tier quote?

00:30:40 ◼   ► Do we have like a vibe feeling on that?

00:30:42 ◼   ► Like, is it something impactful?

00:30:45 ◼   ► S tier quote.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Ridiculous?

00:30:46 ◼   ► S tier quote.

00:30:47 ◼   ► And I hope actually this quote is in, is in the database.

00:30:50 ◼   ► Uh, Tim Cook saying, uh, when it comes to accessibility, I don't care about the bloody Roy.

00:30:54 ◼   ► You know, that, that kind of stuff.

00:30:57 ◼   ► That is an S tier quote.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:59 ◼   ► I think, I think we know it when we see it in the words of a great philosopher.

00:31:02 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Did you just pronounce ROI as Roy?

00:31:05 ◼   ► He did.

00:31:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:07 ◼   ► That's why I didn't, I did not clock that quote at first.

00:31:10 ◼   ► I'm like, what is he saying?

00:31:11 ◼   ► I did.

00:31:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:12 ◼   ► He's bullish.

00:31:12 ◼   ► He's bullish on the ROI.

00:31:14 ◼   ► I've never heard anyone do this.

00:31:15 ◼   ► He's otterish.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Federico's a completely different kind of finance influence.

00:31:19 ◼   ► He is.

00:31:20 ◼   ► He is.

00:31:21 ◼   ► So, okay.

00:31:22 ◼   ► So we're going to start with the oldest ones and work our way towards the future.

00:31:27 ◼   ► That's the plan.

00:31:29 ◼   ► You should remove the filter that you have in the search.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:32 ◼   ► Well, I searched for toaster.

00:31:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:35 ◼   ► All right.

00:31:35 ◼   ► So, up first, this is from 2012.

00:31:41 ◼   ► iCloud and Siri are things that you'll talk with your grandkids about as profound changes.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:49 ◼   ► So we can all agree that we won't.

00:31:52 ◼   ► And so, like, this is my point of, like, that is a hilarious thing to say, but it's also

00:31:58 ◼   ► ridiculously wrong.

00:31:59 ◼   ► So is it top or bottom?

00:32:00 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:32:02 ◼   ► Like, I can't work out where to put these things on the tier list.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I think we also need to read the commentary for the tier list.

00:32:11 ◼   ► So, F is straight to jail.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:15 ◼   ► E, yikes, don't love this.

00:32:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:19 ◼   ► D, not it, chief.

00:32:20 ◼   ► C, meh, it's fine.

00:32:23 ◼   ► B, solid take, great leader energy.

00:32:27 ◼   ► A, amazing chef's kiss.

00:32:28 ◼   ► A, amazing chef's kiss.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Then S is absolute goat material.

00:32:31 ◼   ► This is the best kind of AI writing.

00:32:36 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:32:37 ◼   ► It's very...

00:32:37 ◼   ► Like, what are we doing?

00:32:38 ◼   ► You know, while they're reporting that Gen Z hates AI, this is why, because it's trying

00:32:43 ◼   ► to talk like a youth.

00:32:44 ◼   ► Yeah, that is absolutely, that is spot on.

00:32:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:48 ◼   ► For some reason, it's trying to talk like a kid and it's failing.

00:32:51 ◼   ► I also think part of my original prompt was go for maximum cringe.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:56 ◼   ► And it has.

00:32:56 ◼   ► It did.

00:32:57 ◼   ► There's a lot of Comic Sans.

00:32:58 ◼   ► So, like, I think actually that's fair.

00:33:00 ◼   ► You did ask for cringe and it has served us for cringe.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I think this is not it, chief.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I agree.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Not it, chief.

00:33:07 ◼   ► Because it's a good quote, but it's obviously not it, chief.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Yes.

00:33:11 ◼   ► All right.

00:33:15 ◼   ► So, we are back now to the one we were just talking about.

00:33:18 ◼   ► So, I read this thing.

00:33:19 ◼   ► You can converge a fridge and a toaster.

00:33:21 ◼   ► I'm not introducing that next week.

00:33:23 ◼   ► This is from 2012 as well.

00:33:25 ◼   ► I think it's A.

00:33:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:28 ◼   ► That's an all-timer, first of all.

00:33:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:32 ◼   ► So, not below A tier, I would say.

00:33:37 ◼   ► I don't think it's S tier.

00:33:39 ◼   ► I don't think it's S tier.

00:33:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:40 ◼   ► I don't think it's B tier.

00:33:42 ◼   ► I think he has some S tier stuff in here.

00:33:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:44 ◼   ► And I don't think this is on that level.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Yeah, this is A tier, especially because it has persisted for so long as well.

00:33:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:52 ◼   ► I think it's an all-timer.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Up next, we have a quote from Tim Cook being interviewed.

00:34:01 ◼   ► He was answering a question about litigation and patents and whether that harms innovation.

00:34:09 ◼   ► And he said, and I quote, it's a pain in the s**t.

00:34:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:14 ◼   ► What I like about this is, like, you are part of the problem.

00:34:21 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:34:23 ◼   ► Like, you know, like, you are part of this issue.

00:34:26 ◼   ► A bunch of these quotes came from, like, D10 and stuff like that, which is such a shame that we don't have those anymore.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Yeah, there was a good conference.

00:34:34 ◼   ► Because, like, Walton Carr just did such a great job.

00:34:37 ◼   ► Like, you know, if you weren't around for when they got Jobs and Gates on stage together, like, that was monumental.

00:34:44 ◼   ► It's all on YouTube.

00:34:46 ◼   ► You should go watch it.

00:34:47 ◼   ► You should go watch it for sure.

00:34:49 ◼   ► But, like, when they announced it was happening, man, it was unbelievable.

00:34:53 ◼   ► It was.

00:34:54 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes.

00:34:55 ◼   ► If you have never seen it, it is excellent.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Like, it really is, like, they do a great job together.

00:35:03 ◼   ► They have good chemistry, weirdly.

00:35:04 ◼   ► Yeah, it's brilliant.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Gates and Jobs?

00:35:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:08 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:35:09 ◼   ► I mean, they've known each other, you know, basically their whole lives.

00:35:12 ◼   ► Like, it really is.

00:35:14 ◼   ► It's great.

00:35:15 ◼   ► So, back to this one, what do we think?

00:35:19 ◼   ► I mean, I would go for S-tier myself, but, you know.

00:35:25 ◼   ► The only thing that keeps it out of S for me, and I could be persuaded, is that this one isn't widely known.

00:35:32 ◼   ► Like, I didn't know this reference when I saw the quote.

00:35:35 ◼   ► I had to go, like, read the source material.

00:35:37 ◼   ► I don't remember this.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:39 ◼   ► Okay, okay.

00:35:41 ◼   ► So, it's not S-tier.

00:35:42 ◼   ► And it's not toaster fridge level, either.

00:35:46 ◼   ► It's not.

00:35:46 ◼   ► It's okay.

00:35:47 ◼   ► So, we're thinking B-tier?

00:35:48 ◼   ► I think B.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Because it's high up, but not A.

00:35:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Okay, B-tier.

00:35:53 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:56 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:35:58 ◼   ► This is another for the ages.

00:36:04 ◼   ► The context, this quote is about TV.

00:36:05 ◼   ► I'm going to read it in a second.

00:36:06 ◼   ► But the context is, for whatever reason, at the end of his life, Steve Jobs told a bunch of people that he had cracked TV.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Yep.

00:36:15 ◼   ► It's in the book.

00:36:15 ◼   ► It's in the book.

00:36:16 ◼   ► But he didn't tell anybody what he meant.

00:36:19 ◼   ► And so, you know, everyone was running around trying to figure out what that was.

00:36:24 ◼   ► This was, like, a huge thing in, like, the financial tech press.

00:36:28 ◼   ► Yes.

00:36:29 ◼   ► And someone, genuinely, someone just wrote into Upgrade.

00:36:35 ◼   ► Like, we're probably going to do this in a couple of weeks' time or something, is it?

00:36:38 ◼   ► Ask Upgrade.

00:36:39 ◼   ► Referencing this.

00:36:40 ◼   ► Like, it's still happening.

00:36:42 ◼   ► Someone was like, Tim Cook said, I'm sorry, Steve Jobs said he'd cracked TV.

00:36:46 ◼   ► Do you think that it happened?

00:36:48 ◼   ► Like, do you think we have now done it?

00:36:50 ◼   ► So, I love that it continues to return.

00:36:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:53 ◼   ► It's almost like Jobs is just screwing everyone.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Like, he gives, like, a curse or something that he put on everybody at Apple.

00:37:01 ◼   ► It's like, you work it out.

00:37:02 ◼   ► For context, this is also the time when, you know, remember that analyst Gene Master was obsessed with the idea of Apple making an actual television.

00:37:12 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:37:13 ◼   ► So, those were the times.

00:37:15 ◼   ► And it was the conversations.

00:37:17 ◼   ► Well, we definitely had this conversation, too, of, like, how will Apple manage the logistics in the Apple Store with televisions?

00:37:23 ◼   ► They're so much bigger than computers.

00:37:25 ◼   ► Like, these are, like, all the conversations that we were having kind of around the 2010 time period.

00:37:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Simple times, you know.

00:37:33 ◼   ► So, the quote is, this is Tim Cook talking to NBC's Brian Williams.

00:37:39 ◼   ► And they're talking about kind of turning on a living room TV and what that experience is like in 2012.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Tim says, when I go into my living room and turn on the TV, I feel like I've gone backwards in time by 20 to 30 years.

00:37:53 ◼   ► Okay, Tim.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Using an old plasma TV in the living room.

00:37:59 ◼   ► It's like his TV is built into a piece of furniture.

00:38:03 ◼   ► You remember those?

00:38:04 ◼   ► Tim uses a CRT to play Super Mario Brothers or something.

00:38:07 ◼   ► I think that this is more of a Tim Cook problem than an everybody else problem.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a skill issue, Tim.

00:38:15 ◼   ► Yeah, skill issue.

00:38:16 ◼   ► Get good, Tim.

00:38:18 ◼   ► I think this is a D tier, right?

00:38:24 ◼   ► I think it's not it, Chief.

00:38:25 ◼   ► This is not it, Chief.

00:38:28 ◼   ► By the way, I would like to say that maybe at the end we could do the patented re-rank in case we want to move anything around.

00:38:34 ◼   ► Oh, by the way, I'm not sure, Stephen, what's going to happen when the rows fill up with quotes.

00:38:40 ◼   ► Can you try and click somewhere in a row?

00:38:42 ◼   ► I think it should give you like a pop-up with all the quotes, maybe.

00:38:47 ◼   ► Nope.

00:38:48 ◼   ► We'll find out.

00:38:50 ◼   ► We'll find out what happens.

00:38:51 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:38:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:38:52 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Yeah, you can.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Oh, okay, okay, okay, okay.

00:38:55 ◼   ► I built a support for that.

00:38:56 ◼   ► Nice.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Okay.

00:38:57 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:38:58 ◼   ► All right.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:00 ◼   ► So, we're now into...

00:39:03 ◼   ► I would like to apologize for the visual nature of this episode.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:07 ◼   ► We have no visual component available.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Maybe someone should turn podcasts into YouTube videos.

00:39:14 ◼   ► I don't think it'll work.

00:39:15 ◼   ► No.

00:39:16 ◼   ► I don't think it'll work.

00:39:17 ◼   ► So, there's nothing we can do about it.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Okay.

00:39:21 ◼   ► In 2013, I think this is a Jason story because it says this is Tim.

00:39:27 ◼   ► Yeah, this is a Jason.

00:39:29 ◼   ► This is Tim.

00:39:31 ◼   ► So, that's the...

00:39:32 ◼   ► Even though it says Macworld stuff, this is definitely Jason doing this.

00:39:35 ◼   ► At the transcription of the earning of a conference.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:39:39 ◼   ► I think it's Tim Cook again at the Goldman Sachs conference.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:39:42 ◼   ► Which also used to be a thing.

00:39:44 ◼   ► If it says this is Tim, I'm convinced that Jason Snell wrote this.

00:39:46 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:39:46 ◼   ► It's Jason's style.

00:39:48 ◼   ► So, Cook was being pushed on making less expensive iPhones.

00:39:52 ◼   ► And this is the beginning of 2013.

00:39:56 ◼   ► So, we are in the iPhone 5C era.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Right?

00:40:02 ◼   ► That came out in the summer of 13.

00:40:04 ◼   ► This is right before then.

00:40:05 ◼   ► And pushing back, he says, the only thing we'll never do is make a crappy product.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Now, I'm just going to make a push.

00:40:15 ◼   ► Sure.

00:40:16 ◼   ► Please.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I think this is S tier.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Because this...

00:40:19 ◼   ► No.

00:40:20 ◼   ► This is the attitude of Tim Cook that I enjoy.

00:40:23 ◼   ► When he says something...

00:40:26 ◼   ► Like, it kind of is close to the pain in the a** thing, but not entirely.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Where he will just say a thing.

00:40:33 ◼   ► It's like, oh, this is actually who he is.

00:40:35 ◼   ► Like, he will talk like this, but you've got to catch him in it.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And, like, he will say something like, the only thing we'll never do is make a crappy product.

00:40:43 ◼   ► Which is definitely not the PR line, I feel like.

00:40:46 ◼   ► This is like, oh, Tim said a thing.

00:40:49 ◼   ► There are a few of these kinds of quotes in here.

00:40:51 ◼   ► This is one of them.

00:40:52 ◼   ► Maybe it's not S tier, but this is, like, getting up to what I like about when Tim has stuff to say.

00:40:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:01 ◼   ► I think I struggle with it the way I did the previous one, where, like, I didn't know that this one didn't jump off the page of me.

00:41:07 ◼   ► He's like, oh, yeah, Tim Cook said that.

00:41:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:08 ◼   ► But I like what you're saying, and I do like sort of the attitude that Cook had towards some of these things,

00:41:16 ◼   ► which I feel like became duller over time.

00:41:18 ◼   ► It was spicier in the beginning.

00:41:20 ◼   ► I could definitely see a B, I think is where I would put it.

00:41:25 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:41:26 ◼   ► What do you think, Federico?

00:41:28 ◼   ► I think we meet Mike somewhere in the middle, and we give it an A tier.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Thinking about it now, the vibe that I enjoy, I know there are some memorable ones in here.

00:41:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:41 ◼   ► That I think could maybe get up a little bit higher.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I appreciate it.

00:41:46 ◼   ► These investor things is where he does get the most annoyed, I think.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:50 ◼   ► So that's a good one.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Yeah, and also these used to be annual interviews back in the day.

00:41:55 ◼   ► I don't think they stopped at a certain point.

00:41:58 ◼   ► And as we'll see later in the list, you know, the team started doing interviews with magazines, for example,

00:42:07 ◼   ► which is not something that I used to do before.

00:42:09 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:11 ◼   ► Next up.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Oh, same conference.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Same conference.

00:42:16 ◼   ► Apple had a lot of money.

00:42:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:18 ◼   ► It's cute that in 2013, people thought Apple had a lot of money, because like, boy, did we not know what was coming.

00:42:24 ◼   ► And he basically says, the cash is not burning a hole in our pocket.

00:42:29 ◼   ► So Apple wasn't going to go out and spend on things that it didn't feel like it should spend on.

00:42:36 ◼   ► This is also, I think, a quite popular Tim Cook.

00:42:39 ◼   ► It's pretty good.

00:42:39 ◼   ► Pretty good.

00:42:41 ◼   ► From back in the day.

00:42:42 ◼   ► One year and three months later, they paid $3 billion for pizza.

00:42:52 ◼   ► So, I don't know, man.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Maybe it was.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Maybe it wasn't a hole, but maybe, you know, like, it's teeny tiny.

00:42:59 ◼   ► It was $3 billion.

00:43:00 ◼   ► The lack of a music streaming service was burning a hole in their bank accounts.

00:43:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:04 ◼   ► Which is better to say.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:06 ◼   ► I think it's an A.

00:43:07 ◼   ► A or B.

00:43:08 ◼   ► It's a B.

00:43:10 ◼   ► I think B, yeah.

00:43:11 ◼   ► I think it feels more B to me.

00:43:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Yet another.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Man, he was just popping off at this Goldman Sachs conference.

00:43:20 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:43:20 ◼   ► This is when he used to say stuff.

00:43:22 ◼   ► I think he hated these events.

00:43:25 ◼   ► Yes, he did.

00:43:26 ◼   ► He got spicy.

00:43:28 ◼   ► He did.

00:43:28 ◼   ► There were questions about things like the iPad mini.

00:43:32 ◼   ► So, on one hand, people wanted a cheaper iPhone.

00:43:35 ◼   ► On the other hand, someone else was worried about, could the iPad mini eat into the sales of other Apple products?

00:43:41 ◼   ► And I think what Tim says here, the quote is, if we don't cannibalize, someone else will.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And I really, really like this quote because it is the same feeling.

00:43:54 ◼   ► Y'all just talked about an upgrade.

00:43:55 ◼   ► The iPod Nano replacing the iPod mini, the most popular music player in the world, were going to replace it.

00:44:03 ◼   ► They knew that the iPhone was going to kill the whole iPod line, but they did it, right?

00:44:09 ◼   ► I think this is sort of core to Apple.

00:44:11 ◼   ► Like, they are willing, maybe less now, but they are willing to sacrifice one of their own product lines for something better.

00:44:20 ◼   ► I think it's pretty core to where the company should be.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I like this quote.

00:44:26 ◼   ► I would give it an A tier, personally, because I'm still kind of saving myself for the S tier.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I think there's one coming up that I can make a case for.

00:44:35 ◼   ► But yeah, I really like this one.

00:44:38 ◼   ► So, I would say A tier, probably.

00:44:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:44:42 ◼   ► And we can reassess later, obviously.

00:44:45 ◼   ► All right.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Now, Mr. Cook goes to Washington.

00:44:50 ◼   ► He's testifying before the U.S. Senate about Apple's tax practices.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And he says, we pay all the taxes we owe, every single dollar.

00:45:01 ◼   ► Oh, this is a C tier.

00:45:03 ◼   ► You know, it's okay, sure.

00:45:05 ◼   ► No, you don't.

00:45:06 ◼   ► No, you don't.

00:45:09 ◼   ► They had to change the laws, and then you got in trouble.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Yeah, they had to repatriate a bunch of money, right?

00:45:14 ◼   ► Like, he was, the Apple was playing within the bounds of the legal system, but the legal system had huge loopholes that they were taking advantage of.

00:45:22 ◼   ► I think it's, I kind of think it's E.

00:45:24 ◼   ► Street to jail?

00:45:25 ◼   ► I'm not sure they were playing, technically, within the law, right?

00:45:28 ◼   ► Because they got fined by the European Union, didn't they?

00:45:30 ◼   ► Yeah, but the European Union.

00:45:31 ◼   ► Remember, it was the whole thing that got fined, and Ireland didn't want the money.

00:45:34 ◼   ► Like, please don't give it to us, because they wanted Apple to continue doing what they were doing.

00:45:38 ◼   ► Like, the EU is a real place.

00:45:40 ◼   ► I think it's E.

00:45:42 ◼   ► F feels special.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:45 ◼   ► Yeah, okay.

00:45:46 ◼   ► It's E.

00:45:46 ◼   ► I think it's E.

00:45:47 ◼   ► Yikes don't love this.

00:45:48 ◼   ► Because I also do feel like, yikes, I don't love this.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:45:51 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Okay, this is one that I've been waiting for.

00:45:56 ◼   ► Yes.

00:45:57 ◼   ► Tell us about it.

00:45:58 ◼   ► So, this is at the All Things D conference again.

00:46:01 ◼   ► This year, it's D11.

00:46:02 ◼   ► We are in late May 2013.

00:46:06 ◼   ► Speculation around, like, now Tim Cook has been CEO for more than a year and a half, going into two years.

00:46:16 ◼   ► And everybody's thinking, okay, what's Tim Cook's breakthrough device going to be?

00:46:22 ◼   ► And speculation was mounting at the time that it was going to be a smart watch.

00:46:27 ◼   ► That it was going to be, in the rumors at the time, the so-called iWatch.

00:46:32 ◼   ► iWatch, maybe.

00:46:33 ◼   ► God, remember that?

00:46:34 ◼   ► Oh, I got a story about the name, just if I can interject real quickly.

00:46:38 ◼   ► Sure.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I re-listened to the first episode of Upgrade recently.

00:46:42 ◼   ► Why'd you do that?

00:46:43 ◼   ► Y'all mentioned it a bunch, and I was like, I should go listen to it.

00:46:45 ◼   ► It's a fascinating time capsule for many reasons.

00:46:48 ◼   ► But the funniest thing about it to me is that Jason keeps calling it the iWatch and has to, like, stop and correct himself that the name is Apple Watch.

00:46:55 ◼   ► I mean, what are we going to do, you know?

00:47:00 ◼   ► You've got to pick a name.

00:47:02 ◼   ► It's like, you know, what did we call the headset, right?

00:47:05 ◼   ► Was that what we called it?

00:47:06 ◼   ► The headset.

00:47:07 ◼   ► The headset.

00:47:09 ◼   ► Or whatever the name was, and it became Vision Pro.

00:47:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:12 ◼   ► Oh, God.

00:47:13 ◼   ► Anyway, when asked about future devices and wearable computers, this is way before any announcement of the Apple Watch.

00:47:24 ◼   ► Tim Cook said the very famous quote, I think the wrist is interesting.

00:47:29 ◼   ► This is S-tier.

00:47:30 ◼   ► S-tier.

00:47:31 ◼   ► This is S-tier.

00:47:31 ◼   ► Because this is a great quote.

00:47:33 ◼   ► It's another thing that he does, right?

00:47:35 ◼   ► Where he, like, vaguely references a product error in the most vague way.

00:47:40 ◼   ► And also, just, that is weird to say.

00:47:43 ◼   ► I think the wrist is interesting.

00:47:44 ◼   ► What a weird thing to say.

00:47:47 ◼   ► Like, what?

00:47:48 ◼   ► Is there anything else you could be talking about?

00:47:50 ◼   ► You just say what you're talking about.

00:47:53 ◼   ► I am into wrists.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Oh, I love wrists, man.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Hey, everyone's got their own special thing.

00:47:58 ◼   ► That's true.

00:47:59 ◼   ► We're not shaming.

00:47:59 ◼   ► No shame.

00:48:01 ◼   ► We're not wrist shame in here.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Don't wrist shame on this show.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Yes.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:04 ◼   ► But yeah, this quote started even more rumors.

00:48:08 ◼   ► It was a whole thing.

00:48:10 ◼   ► Because, like, later on, he just goes, he's, like, talking about AR and sensors and, like,

00:48:15 ◼   ► oh, cars are super interesting.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Like, it's very, there's this old Apple saying that, isn't it funny, a ship that leaks from

00:48:22 ◼   ► the top?

00:48:22 ◼   ► And Tim Cook's not leaking product stuff here, but he kind of can't keep his mouth shut about

00:48:27 ◼   ► what they're doing at the same time.

00:48:29 ◼   ► It's just very interesting.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Very interesting.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Up next, we have another D11.

00:48:37 ◼   ► This is from a roundup of interesting things that he said.

00:48:42 ◼   ► And one of the questions was about Apple services appearing on Android.

00:48:47 ◼   ► This is 2013.

00:48:48 ◼   ► So this is early.

00:48:51 ◼   ► It's before Apple Music, right?

00:48:52 ◼   ► I think.

00:48:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:54 ◼   ► And he basically says, or he does say, we don't have a religious issue with porting

00:49:02 ◼   ► an Apple app to Android.

00:49:03 ◼   ► It's funny.

00:49:05 ◼   ► They have done it a couple times.

00:49:08 ◼   ► I think most people would say Apple's apps on Android aren't great Android apps.

00:49:12 ◼   ► I would say that Apple Music is pretty great.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Is it good?

00:49:14 ◼   ► Is it good?

00:49:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:49:15 ◼   ► I actually prefer the tablet layout of Apple Music on Android than iPadOS.

00:49:20 ◼   ► That's hilarious.

00:49:22 ◼   ► That's a crazy sentence.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Religious issue is such a strange phrase, right?

00:49:30 ◼   ► Like, and I get it.

00:49:31 ◼   ► I know what it means.

00:49:32 ◼   ► I'm sure I use it.

00:49:33 ◼   ► But I don't know.

00:49:34 ◼   ► It's just a weird, it's just a weird way to put it, you know?

00:49:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:39 ◼   ► I think it's C.

00:49:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:42 ◼   ► Let's put our first C tier.

00:49:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Okay.

00:49:46 ◼   ► I've just noticed that the tiers, it has a little placeholder text that says, drop cook

00:49:52 ◼   ► here.

00:49:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:49:55 ◼   ► Why not?

00:49:56 ◼   ► In Comic Sans.

00:49:57 ◼   ► In Comic Sans.

00:49:59 ◼   ► The use of Comic Sans throughout this is brilliant.

00:50:01 ◼   ► It is.

00:50:02 ◼   ► Love it.

00:50:02 ◼   ► Okay.

00:50:06 ◼   ► This is September of 2013.

00:50:09 ◼   ► This is September of 2013.

00:50:09 ◼   ► This is after the 5S and the 5C launch.

00:50:12 ◼   ► So earlier in the year, he's asked about less expensive products.

00:50:16 ◼   ► We won't make crappy ones.

00:50:17 ◼   ► These phones come out.

00:50:20 ◼   ► And then he says, I don't consider our job to make the most.

00:50:24 ◼   ► It's our job to make the best.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And it is worth noting, 5C, failure, right?

00:50:31 ◼   ► It's considered to not work.

00:50:33 ◼   ► And like, I've read, I have now, boys, I've finished Apple in China.

00:50:37 ◼   ► So I now have all that information.

00:50:38 ◼   ► So congratulations to me.

00:50:40 ◼   ► There is like a good part of the book where they're talking about this, that like, it didn't

00:50:46 ◼   ► work.

00:50:48 ◼   ► And so there's like a bit of concern about that.

00:50:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:52 ◼   ► Here's, I think here's the full, the full context of it is like, units and usage share and can

00:51:06 ◼   ► Apple like overtake the rest of the industry in terms of usage?

00:51:09 ◼   ► And that's what the most is.

00:51:11 ◼   ► It's, we're not in the business of making the most number of phones, the most popular

00:51:17 ◼   ► platforms, but the best.

00:51:20 ◼   ► And then it goes on and says, and having the best experience and having the happiest customers.

00:51:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:25 ◼   ► It's a solid take.

00:51:26 ◼   ► I feel like that fits very nicely in B for me.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Like.

00:51:30 ◼   ► Yeah, it's B.

00:51:31 ◼   ► It's a good take to make.

00:51:33 ◼   ► It's also a good take to make at a time where you maybe didn't sell as many as you thought

00:51:36 ◼   ► you were going to sell.

00:51:37 ◼   ► You know?

00:51:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:38 ◼   ► That works.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Maybe so.

00:51:40 ◼   ► Okay.

00:51:42 ◼   ► This is a, we're now in 2014, in February.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Tim Cook is asked about bigger iPhones because this is the pressure at the moment.

00:51:53 ◼   ► Again, this is right.

00:51:54 ◼   ► This is a few months before we see the six and the six plus.

00:51:58 ◼   ► Um, and he disagrees with Federico's take about Android tablets.

00:52:03 ◼   ► Well, he said in a Wall Street Journal interview at the time, uh, that, uh, and I'm quoting the

00:52:10 ◼   ► Android tablet experience is so crappy.

00:52:14 ◼   ► I mean, it kind of was at the time though.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Remember the, I mean, it's still not near the iPad.

00:52:21 ◼   ► No, but it's much better.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Remember the, what was it called?

00:52:26 ◼   ► The, the iPad killer, the Motorola Xoom?

00:52:30 ◼   ► Xoom with an X.

00:52:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:32 ◼   ► With an X.

00:52:32 ◼   ► With an X?

00:52:33 ◼   ► And it ran, what, Honeycomb or something like that?

00:52:36 ◼   ► Honeycomb.

00:52:36 ◼   ► It's like a version of Android that only ever ran on tablets.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Man, man.

00:52:40 ◼   ► I remember, I, I miss Android, uh, dessert names.

00:52:44 ◼   ► They were good.

00:52:45 ◼   ► Do they not do that anymore?

00:52:46 ◼   ► No.

00:52:46 ◼   ► No, it's just numbers.

00:52:47 ◼   ► Oh, oh, is it numbers now?

00:52:49 ◼   ► I forgot it was numbers now.

00:52:51 ◼   ► The.

00:52:51 ◼   ► Don't they still have like Easter eggs though?

00:52:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:53 ◼   ► I think it's like a code name, but it's not.

00:52:56 ◼   ► It's not.

00:52:57 ◼   ► It's not like a marketing name like Apple still does with locations, you know?

00:53:01 ◼   ► Okay.

00:53:01 ◼   ► Um, the, the only good Android tablet in this era was the Nexus 7.

00:53:06 ◼   ► And I will believe that until I die.

00:53:08 ◼   ► So good.

00:53:09 ◼   ► S tier product.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:53:11 ◼   ► That tablet was great.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Um, I think this is fine.

00:53:14 ◼   ► I don't think anyone really disagreed with it.

00:53:15 ◼   ► I think he meant for it to be edgy, but it's like, yeah, you're right.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:18 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:19 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:53:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:20 ◼   ► B, maybe.

00:53:21 ◼   ► B?

00:53:22 ◼   ► Oh, C.

00:53:25 ◼   ► No, C.

00:53:25 ◼   ► C is good.

00:53:26 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:53:27 ◼   ► C is good.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:53:27 ◼   ► All right.

00:53:29 ◼   ► So this one, so Cook is responding to a shareholder group who's challenging Apple's environmental

00:53:35 ◼   ► spending.

00:53:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:36 ◼   ► This is what he hates.

00:53:36 ◼   ► He says, if that's a hard line for you, then you should get out of the stock.

00:53:41 ◼   ► S tier, baby.

00:53:43 ◼   ► S tier.

00:53:44 ◼   ► S tier.

00:53:44 ◼   ► S tier.

00:53:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:53:45 ◼   ► What we are learning so far is nothing, surprisingly, nothing annoys Tim Cook more than investors.

00:53:52 ◼   ► Let him shareholders.

00:53:53 ◼   ► It's the people he wants to please most are the ones that also hurt him the most.

00:53:58 ◼   ► That's interesting.

00:53:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:59 ◼   ► He should see a counselor.

00:54:01 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:03 ◼   ► Um, September of 2014, Tim Cook is interviewed, um, by Charlie Rose.

00:54:11 ◼   ► I'm just going to leave that out there.

00:54:13 ◼   ► Um, and he's asked about, uh, following in Steve Jobs' footsteps, right?

00:54:19 ◼   ► And we've, we've talked on this a little bit about there's pressure about a new product

00:54:22 ◼   ► category.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Is Tim Cook the kind of leader Apple needs?

00:54:26 ◼   ► Um, and he says, I'm not trying to be Steve Jobs.

00:54:31 ◼   ► I'm trying to be the best Tim Cook I can be.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Oh, it's good.

00:54:36 ◼   ► I like this.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:37 ◼   ► It's sweet.

00:54:38 ◼   ► A tier.

00:54:38 ◼   ► It's sweet.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I think it's sweet.

00:54:41 ◼   ► It's not epic.

00:54:42 ◼   ► I think it's B.

00:54:43 ◼   ► It's B.

00:54:44 ◼   ► B or A.

00:54:45 ◼   ► B.

00:54:47 ◼   ► Maybe B.

00:54:48 ◼   ► Like, it's not, it's good.

00:54:52 ◼   ► It doesn't have that, um, spice refactor, you know?

00:54:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:54:57 ◼   ► Yeah, we can go for B.

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00:56:45 ◼   ► So we're still in 2015.

00:56:47 ◼   ► Cook now talking about Apple Pay's business model and the privacy that they want to go

00:56:54 ◼   ► for with this.

00:56:55 ◼   ► They say, you are not our product.

00:56:57 ◼   ► That is our product.

00:56:59 ◼   ► So what he's saying is Apple Pay is the product, not you.

00:57:02 ◼   ► And again, guess where he's talking?

00:57:04 ◼   ► Goldman Sachs conference.

00:57:05 ◼   ► He's still there saying stuff.

00:57:08 ◼   ► There's another one coming up in a minute from this conference.

00:57:10 ◼   ► I think it might have been later in the day.

00:57:12 ◼   ► He might have been a bit more tired or hungry.

00:57:13 ◼   ► I'm not sure, but this is, I like this, right?

00:57:16 ◼   ► Like this is one of the, I think for good and bad tenets of the Tim Cook era is the privacy

00:57:25 ◼   ► messaging.

00:57:26 ◼   ► And I say the good because there's a lot of good came out of it.

00:57:29 ◼   ► But the bad is they are not perfect when it comes to privacy.

00:57:32 ◼   ► And if you become so strong in your messaging on something, you set yourself up for some falls.

00:57:38 ◼   ► And I think that they did that, right?

00:57:41 ◼   ► Like how many times did we see pictures of the CES banners, right?

00:57:45 ◼   ► Where it's like everything that's on your iPhone stays in your iPhone.

00:57:48 ◼   ► You've seen articles where there's breaches and privacy issues.

00:57:52 ◼   ► And now, you know, different countries are getting access to this encryption and all this kind

00:57:57 ◼   ► of stuff.

00:57:57 ◼   ► So I think that this is an example of that, which is, it's good.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Like it's saying what he wants to say.

00:58:04 ◼   ► I think at a time when they really started to ramp that up because they're doing more

00:58:08 ◼   ► services stuff.

00:58:09 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:58:11 ◼   ► So I don't think he said it in the best way in this instance.

00:58:14 ◼   ► No.

00:58:15 ◼   ► So B or C?

00:58:18 ◼   ► A?

00:58:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's fine.

00:58:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:23 ◼   ► No F tier quotes yet.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Not yet.

00:58:25 ◼   ► Not yet.

00:58:27 ◼   ► So this is the one I was just referencing.

00:58:29 ◼   ► So Tim is later in the day at the Goldman Sachs conference and somebody asks him about the

00:58:37 ◼   ► fact that they're like referencing, oh, you know, that people in China, they're not going

00:58:42 ◼   ► to want to buy expensive products.

00:58:45 ◼   ► Hilarious to think of that, right?

00:58:46 ◼   ► And so Tim says, well, let me tell you, it's a bunch of bull.

00:58:50 ◼   ► It's not true.

00:58:51 ◼   ► I've got more of the quote here.

00:58:54 ◼   ► People everywhere in this world want a great product.

00:58:56 ◼   ► And that doesn't mean that everyone, every single person in the world can afford one yet,

00:59:00 ◼   ► but everyone wants one.

00:59:01 ◼   ► And so if we do our jobs right and keep making great products, I think there's a pretty good

00:59:05 ◼   ► business there for us.

00:59:06 ◼   ► And oh boy, was he right?

00:59:07 ◼   ► Oh boy, was he right?

00:59:09 ◼   ► But I love the energy.

00:59:11 ◼   ► It's a bunch of bull, everybody.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Yeah, no, feisty team is my favorite team.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:16 ◼   ► Goldman Sachs conference seems to really bring it out in them.

00:59:19 ◼   ► Man, they should bring that back.

00:59:20 ◼   ► I want it back.

00:59:21 ◼   ► I want the D conference back and the Goldman Sachs conference.

00:59:24 ◼   ► And I want people to write it.

00:59:25 ◼   ► What are we thinking here, boys?

00:59:28 ◼   ► A.

00:59:29 ◼   ► I think it's A tier.

00:59:31 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's A tier.

00:59:32 ◼   ► I love it.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Bit of energy.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:59:35 ◼   ► In 2015, Tim Cook spoke at the George Washington University commencement.

00:59:43 ◼   ► And I will say, out of all the commencement speeches CEOs have given, this is not the one

00:59:52 ◼   ► I remember.

00:59:52 ◼   ► Apple CEOs specifically?

00:59:55 ◼   ► Yes.

00:59:55 ◼   ► You know?

00:59:56 ◼   ► Yeah, there's another one that really sticks out at me.

00:59:59 ◼   ► Anyways, Kim Cook says, graduates, your values matter.

01:00:03 ◼   ► They are your North Star.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Otherwise, it's just a job and life is too short for that.

01:00:12 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Look, this is a fine thing to say at a commencement speech, you know?

01:00:17 ◼   ► But it is not an all-timer in the sense that nobody remembers this happened.

01:00:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Steve Jobs at Stanford in 2005.

01:00:28 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes.

01:00:29 ◼   ► Like, it's next level.

01:00:31 ◼   ► All right.

01:00:34 ◼   ► This is one of my favorites.

01:00:36 ◼   ► In 2015, at WSJD Live, this was like when the D conference had been absorbed, I guess.

01:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:46 ◼   ► And Apple was doing Bezos charts.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Which is very funny because now they don't even break out product sales numbers.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Like, this is before even then.

01:00:54 ◼   ► He's asked about specific Apple Watch numbers and he says, we shipped a lot in the first quarter.

01:01:00 ◼   ► Then last quarter, we shipped even more.

01:01:02 ◼   ► I don't know why this tickles me so much, but it's like, you answered exactly what the problem that people were asking you about?

01:01:12 ◼   ► It's just very funny to me.

01:01:13 ◼   ► I think it gets me because it's almost Trumpian in its nature, this quote.

01:01:18 ◼   ► Like, it's, we shipped a lot and then we shipped even more.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't mean anything.

01:01:23 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:01:27 ◼   ► It's D tier.

01:01:28 ◼   ► D, you know.

01:01:29 ◼   ► No!

01:01:30 ◼   ► What are you even saying?

01:01:31 ◼   ► I don't think it's funny enough.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Like, and I don't even know if he's trying to be funny, you know?

01:01:38 ◼   ► Okay.

01:01:39 ◼   ► What's your pitch then, Stephen?

01:01:41 ◼   ► Because you didn't seem happy about D.

01:01:42 ◼   ► I do think it's funny because he's winking at the question.

01:01:48 ◼   ► D feels harsh.

01:01:53 ◼   ► I'd settle for C.

01:01:54 ◼   ► D feels harsh.

01:01:56 ◼   ► Okay.

01:01:56 ◼   ► I'm trying to explore the scale, you know?

01:01:58 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

01:01:59 ◼   ► We could go with C on this one, but I'm trying to explore the scale.

01:02:01 ◼   ► This may be one we revisit.

01:02:03 ◼   ► We're very much in the bell curve here.

01:02:05 ◼   ► We are.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Very much are.

01:02:07 ◼   ► But I think that's how Taylor should be anyway, though, really.

01:02:10 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:11 ◼   ► Probably so.

01:02:12 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:13 ◼   ► 2015.

01:02:14 ◼   ► Charlie Rose interview.

01:02:16 ◼   ► The privacy and national security argument, which never goes away, is raging.

01:02:22 ◼   ► He's asked if we should have, how these things interact.

01:02:27 ◼   ► And he says, we're America.

01:02:29 ◼   ► We should have both.

01:02:30 ◼   ► F.

01:02:36 ◼   ► See, I'm on, I'm in like a similar vibe to Federico here.

01:02:40 ◼   ► Because it's like, I find it so eye-rolly, right?

01:02:44 ◼   ► Because I'm not American.

01:02:45 ◼   ► So I roll my eyes immediately at the We're America part.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:50 ◼   ► And also it's like, what about the rest of the world?

01:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:56 ◼   ► Can't we all have both?

01:02:56 ◼   ► No, this whole, I mean, I get it.

01:03:01 ◼   ► You know, everyone has their national pride and whatnot.

01:03:05 ◼   ► But like, just as it goes, if you have national pride, everybody else is going to roll their

01:03:09 ◼   ► eyes at you.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Like, that's just, you know.

01:03:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:11 ◼   ► It's just human nature.

01:03:11 ◼   ► In those moments.

01:03:12 ◼   ► Everybody is, that is how it goes.

01:03:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:15 ◼   ► I guess I'm also, it's hard to evaluate this quote after all the tensions between Apple

01:03:22 ◼   ► and the European Union.

01:03:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:24 ◼   ► So it's, I mean, it's low, it's on the low end for me, for sure.

01:03:32 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:32 ◼   ► Maybe not F.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Maybe E.

01:03:34 ◼   ► I think it's E.

01:03:35 ◼   ► I don't love it.

01:03:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:37 ◼   ► Personally.

01:03:37 ◼   ► So.

01:03:38 ◼   ► Because it's also just not even that good anyway.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Like, I don't think he made the point in a great way there.

01:03:42 ◼   ► So.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Okay.

01:03:44 ◼   ► What is this?

01:03:51 ◼   ► This is Apple in a share, or Apple shareholder meeting.

01:03:55 ◼   ► Oh, of course.

01:03:56 ◼   ► He's asked about the car.

01:03:58 ◼   ► It's February, 2016.

01:04:00 ◼   ► So Project Titan rumors are everywhere.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Is it coming?

01:04:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:05 ◼   ► When is it coming, Tim?

01:04:06 ◼   ► Tim says, well, it's going to be Christmas Eve for a while.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Oh, Tim.

01:04:11 ◼   ► Oh, Tim.

01:04:13 ◼   ► No.

01:04:13 ◼   ► No, F.

01:04:14 ◼   ► No.

01:04:15 ◼   ► No.

01:04:17 ◼   ► You wasted billions of dollars and hundreds, thousands of employees, and it never shipped,

01:04:24 ◼   ► and you canceled the whole thing.

01:04:25 ◼   ► F.

01:04:25 ◼   ► F.

01:04:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:27 ◼   ► Straight to jail.

01:04:28 ◼   ► You're our first F.

01:04:29 ◼   ► Okay.

01:04:30 ◼   ► Okay.

01:04:32 ◼   ► 2016, also, we have San Bernardino in the news, where there was a locked iPhone.

01:04:37 ◼   ► The FBI wanted Apple to unlock it to get information about the shooter.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Apple said no.

01:04:43 ◼   ► The FBI went and did secret things, I guess.

01:04:46 ◼   ► Got it on.

01:04:47 ◼   ► This was, I mean, I had, going through this in preparation, like, reflecting on this now

01:04:56 ◼   ► is a little bit like the, we should have both quotes, like, this was such a big deal, and

01:05:01 ◼   ► rightfully so, but boy, was it the tip of the iceberg, right?

01:05:06 ◼   ► We're still having this argument today.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Yes, but I think that they have stood on business of this still.

01:05:13 ◼   ► So, like, I think that this, the San Bernardino thing, I think was a pretty defining part of

01:05:21 ◼   ► Tim Cook's Apple.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, for sure.

01:05:23 ◼   ► That, like, they would, you know, there are obviously holes in this argument, but they would

01:05:30 ◼   ► stand firm in, like, we just had it in the UK, right?

01:05:35 ◼   ► That, like, the UK wanted a backdoor, and Apple seemingly threatened to leave the country.

01:05:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:41 ◼   ► And so, like, the San Bernardino thing was a big deal, and I think that this quote is a

01:05:48 ◼   ► pretty good one, right?

01:05:49 ◼   ► The problem is, the key that turns a billion locks is an encryption key.

01:05:55 ◼   ► They gave them to China.

01:05:57 ◼   ► So, in America, no one should have a key that turns a billion locks, I guess.

01:06:05 ◼   ► But, like, they ended up, well, they didn't give the keys.

01:06:10 ◼   ► They, they, where they host the servers, right?

01:06:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:12 ◼   ► It's unknown, exactly, the, the level of access that, um, the CCP has to iCloud servers.

01:06:19 ◼   ► But anyway, I still think this is a good quote, and I think it is, was a pretty important part

01:06:24 ◼   ► of Tim's, uh, kind of, like, earlier days.

01:06:27 ◼   ► So...

01:06:29 ◼   ► Irritating toward B, maybe?

01:06:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:31 ◼   ► B?

01:06:32 ◼   ► Okay.

01:06:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:33 ◼   ► That was a wild thing to talk about at the time.

01:06:36 ◼   ► Oh, man.

01:06:37 ◼   ► That was, it feels, it feels like such a long time.

01:06:41 ◼   ► And it was 10 years.

01:06:42 ◼   ► It was a long time ago.

01:06:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:43 ◼   ► But it feels like a world away.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:46 ◼   ► Okay.

01:06:48 ◼   ► This is, um, sort of a repeat of the quote we saw earlier.

01:06:53 ◼   ► He's got another go.

01:06:54 ◼   ► He's taken another app out on this one.

01:06:56 ◼   ► This time, it's about Apple's approach to smartphone market share and India.

01:07:02 ◼   ► And he, he goes back to the well.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Our goal has never been to make the most.

01:07:07 ◼   ► It's always been to make the best.

01:07:10 ◼   ► He likes this quote.

01:07:11 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:07:12 ◼   ► What was it that he said the first time?

01:07:14 ◼   ► I don't consider it.

01:07:16 ◼   ► Uh, can, can you close the little pop-up?

01:07:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:19 ◼   ► I don't consider our job to make the most.

01:07:22 ◼   ► It is our job to make the best.

01:07:24 ◼   ► That was three years before this quote, but basically the same thing.

01:07:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:29 ◼   ► So, same tier.

01:07:30 ◼   ► No.

01:07:31 ◼   ► No.

01:07:32 ◼   ► No, because he reuses it.

01:07:33 ◼   ► Because he's reused it and it isn't any better.

01:07:35 ◼   ► I think it's D.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:37 ◼   ► So, yeah, D because recycled quote, we don't like it.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Also, Apple definitely wants to make the most phones that it can to sell in India.

01:07:45 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:45 ◼   ► Who are we getting?

01:07:46 ◼   ► And also, like, I don't consider it stronger than our goal.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:51 ◼   ► You know?

01:07:51 ◼   ► Put yourself into this, Tim.

01:07:54 ◼   ► I know.

01:07:54 ◼   ► Come on.

01:07:55 ◼   ► Think about the wrist, man.

01:07:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:58 ◼   ► Okay.

01:07:59 ◼   ► 2017.

01:08:01 ◼   ► This is from Quartz, a website that I've forgotten existed.

01:08:06 ◼   ► Is it even still, is it still being published?

01:08:09 ◼   ► Whoa, Quartz.

01:08:10 ◼   ► Quartz.

01:08:11 ◼   ► I've forgotten about Quartz.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:13 ◼   ► And you know, they loved their daily newsletter.

01:08:15 ◼   ► She was, she, that was a big thing for her.

01:08:17 ◼   ► She loved the Quartz newsletter.

01:08:18 ◼   ► She'd always tell me things that she'd read in it.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Did she read this, you think?

01:08:23 ◼   ► I'm not sure.

01:08:24 ◼   ► I'm not sure.

01:08:25 ◼   ► This is Tim talking to MIT graduates about internet noise.

01:08:31 ◼   ► And he says, don't listen to the trolls.

01:08:33 ◼   ► And for God's sake, don't become one.

01:08:35 ◼   ► This is essentially Tim saying, F the Hayes.

01:08:39 ◼   ► You know?

01:08:39 ◼   ► This is Tim's, Tim, like, I love this.

01:08:43 ◼   ► This is so great.

01:08:44 ◼   ► Let me read the whole paragraph, because I think it's weaker in context.

01:08:48 ◼   ► No, but this, that's, we're just pulling this quote.

01:08:51 ◼   ► But it's a good line in a paragraph full of cliches.

01:08:55 ◼   ► Okay.

01:08:56 ◼   ► Don't let that noise knock you off course.

01:08:58 ◼   ► Don't get caught up in the trivial aspects of life.

01:09:01 ◼   ► Don't listen to trolls, and for God's sake, don't become one.

01:09:04 ◼   ► Measure your impact in humanity, not in the likes, but the lives you touch.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Not in popularity, but in the people you serve.

01:09:13 ◼   ► I think that's good.

01:09:14 ◼   ► Remember, this is 2017.

01:09:16 ◼   ► This was written by Chagipity five years before Chagipity existed.

01:09:20 ◼   ► No, like, the thing is, these things have become platitudes.

01:09:23 ◼   ► I don't know how much we were saying them in 2017, right?

01:09:28 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:09:29 ◼   ► I think it was a newer thing then.

01:09:32 ◼   ► It's a solid take.

01:09:34 ◼   ► I like it.

01:09:35 ◼   ► I like it.

01:09:36 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:38 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a B.

01:09:38 ◼   ► Okay.

01:09:39 ◼   ► We have our next step.

01:09:42 ◼   ► I got a spoiler for you, boys.

01:09:43 ◼   ► This is not the last time we're going to get the word trolls from Mr. Cook.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Wow, okay.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Yeah, it comes back.

01:09:50 ◼   ► Wow.

01:09:51 ◼   ► Did you see the thing where OpenAI had to censor the latest GPT 5.5 because it was obsessed

01:10:00 ◼   ► with goblins?

01:10:01 ◼   ► Did you see this?

01:10:03 ◼   ► No, I didn't see that.

01:10:04 ◼   ► They published a blog post last night after a bunch of people noticed.

01:10:07 ◼   ► And basically, they confirmed that they had to do some special reinforcement learning training

01:10:13 ◼   ► because GPT 5.5 was obsessed with little creatures like goblins and trolls.

01:10:19 ◼   ► The blog post is called Where the Goblins Came From.

01:10:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:21 ◼   ► What world are we in now?

01:10:23 ◼   ► Where are we now?

01:10:24 ◼   ► Are we in a kid's book now?

01:10:26 ◼   ► It's wild.

01:10:28 ◼   ► Anyway, trolls and goblins.

01:10:31 ◼   ► But back to the quote.

01:10:32 ◼   ► Back to this.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Okay.

01:10:33 ◼   ► All-timer.

01:10:35 ◼   ► This is Tim Cook during, I guess, the quarterly result call in 2017.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And the quote is, autonomy is sort of the mother of all AI projects.

01:10:52 ◼   ► And the context of this, of course, is autonomous driving.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Something that we still really haven't achieved at the level that I think people want.

01:11:02 ◼   ► But in 2017, Apple was reportedly focused on this.

01:11:07 ◼   ► And we now know from like the Pogue book and others that there was a version of the car floating around Apple

01:11:13 ◼   ► that had like no steering wheel.

01:11:14 ◼   ► And like you sat backwards so you could see your friends.

01:11:16 ◼   ► Very strange.

01:11:16 ◼   ► But it's the mother of all AI projects.

01:11:21 ◼   ► I can't even conceptualize in 2017 what were you thinking AI was.

01:11:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Like now I'm lost.

01:11:30 ◼   ► I mean, it's machine learning, right?

01:11:31 ◼   ► It's like teaching a computer.

01:11:33 ◼   ► Yeah, but they used to say machine learning.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

01:11:35 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:37 ◼   ► In 2017, they were saying machine learning.

01:11:39 ◼   ► So Apple used to call some machine learning, machine learning.

01:11:42 ◼   ► What was AI?

01:11:45 ◼   ► Anyway, this is dumb.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Yeah, this is dumb.

01:11:51 ◼   ► E.

01:11:51 ◼   ► F.

01:11:52 ◼   ► F.

01:11:53 ◼   ► E.

01:11:54 ◼   ► I will push for any Project Titan related quotes to go to F, dear.

01:12:00 ◼   ► I think I agree.

01:12:01 ◼   ► F.

01:12:02 ◼   ► I can do that.

01:12:03 ◼   ► It actually should just be like the T tier for Titan.

01:12:07 ◼   ► The T tier.

01:12:08 ◼   ► The T tier.

01:12:09 ◼   ► Oh, man.

01:12:12 ◼   ► Okay.

01:12:13 ◼   ► 2018.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Man, people are so obsessed with asking Tim Cook about how many iPhones they sell.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Yeah, of course.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I mean.

01:12:21 ◼   ► Sure.

01:12:22 ◼   ► It's the whole business.

01:12:23 ◼   ► I mean, it's like you ask like the car company how many cars they sell.

01:12:26 ◼   ► Like, you know, it's what they sell.

01:12:28 ◼   ► Yeah, but when you see them all back to back like this, it really jumped out.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Fair enough.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:12:33 ◼   ► And you know what?

01:12:34 ◼   ► It's pretty why he gets so angry.

01:12:36 ◼   ► Yeah, that's right.

01:12:37 ◼   ► So, 2018, he is asked about the iPhone X being high-end and a niche product, which, of course,

01:12:44 ◼   ► before we get to the quote, this is the dumbest possible question an analyst could ask.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Like, if you pay any attention to technology over the last 40 years, 50 years, 60 years, technology starts expensive at the top and it rolls downhill and becomes mainstream.

01:13:01 ◼   ► This question is so dumb because it just ignores that that's the fact of how these things work.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Anyways, do better.

01:13:08 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett, big, big proponent of Vision Pro.

01:13:10 ◼   ► Huge.

01:13:12 ◼   ► Starting at the top.

01:13:14 ◼   ► That's the exception to the rule because.

01:13:15 ◼   ► It has to be one.

01:13:16 ◼   ► It has to be one.

01:13:17 ◼   ► AR, yeah.

01:13:18 ◼   ► Anyways, so he's asked about the iPhone X.

01:13:20 ◼   ► Cook says, you don't become the top-selling smartphone in the world by being a niche product, right?

01:13:26 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:13:27 ◼   ► Hmm.

01:13:28 ◼   ► I mean, sure, fine.

01:13:31 ◼   ► You know?

01:13:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:32 ◼   ► D.

01:13:33 ◼   ► C, D?

01:13:34 ◼   ► D.

01:13:34 ◼   ► C, C.

01:13:35 ◼   ► I did say it's fine and it says fine right there.

01:13:37 ◼   ► Okay.

01:13:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:38 ◼   ► C.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:40 ◼   ► Oh, this one I love.

01:13:42 ◼   ► All right.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Tell us about it.

01:13:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:44 ◼   ► So, this was, Stephen, can you open the link?

01:13:47 ◼   ► I just wanted to confirm.

01:13:48 ◼   ► Um, uh, this was, in regards to, remember the Cambridge Analytical scandal?

01:13:54 ◼   ► Yes.

01:13:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:55 ◼   ► That Facebook found itself in with the data leak.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Tim Cook was asked about, uh, uh, what, what he would do if he was faced with the same

01:14:06 ◼   ► sort of problems that Mark Zuckerberg was facing at the time.

01:14:09 ◼   ► And he simply replied, I wouldn't be in this situation.

01:14:15 ◼   ► Ice cold.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Yep.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Ice cold.

01:14:18 ◼   ► Love it.

01:14:19 ◼   ► S.

01:14:20 ◼   ► Tear.

01:14:20 ◼   ► S.

01:14:20 ◼   ► This is S tier.

01:14:21 ◼   ► What is also so great about this is, like, you've got to have the guts to say this.

01:14:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:27 ◼   ► Like, you've got to feel very confident that you can say this and mean it.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:33 ◼   ► That, like, this isn't going to come for you.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Like, something like this.

01:14:36 ◼   ► So, yeah.

01:14:37 ◼   ► This is good.

01:14:38 ◼   ► Very good.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:39 ◼   ► Very good.

01:14:39 ◼   ► That is an S tier.

01:14:40 ◼   ► I wouldn't be in this situation.

01:14:41 ◼   ► Feisty and ice cold Tim Cook are the best team.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:14:47 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:48 ◼   ► 2018, Tim Cook.

01:14:50 ◼   ► He's speaking now at Duke's commencement.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Okay.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Wow.

01:14:54 ◼   ► How many commencements can he do?

01:14:55 ◼   ► So many.

01:14:56 ◼   ► And he's watched the Steve Jobs one, and he's tried to punch it up a little bit.

01:15:00 ◼   ► Someone's like, hey, have you seen this video?

01:15:04 ◼   ► Let's give it another go.

01:15:06 ◼   ► You should really watch this.

01:15:07 ◼   ► His YouTube recommended page is really going for him.

01:15:11 ◼   ► Let's inspire the youth with a second go at it.

01:15:16 ◼   ► Don't mention trolls.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Do not mention trolls and see where we can end up.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:21 ◼   ► So, in the commencement speech, he's got a line.

01:15:27 ◼   ► The question we ask ourselves is not what we can do, but what we should do.

01:15:33 ◼   ► What should we do?

01:15:36 ◼   ► What should we do?

01:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:36 ◼   ► What can we do, but what should we do?

01:15:38 ◼   ► Yes.

01:15:39 ◼   ► Okay.

01:15:39 ◼   ► So, maybe he fell asleep during the Jobs video a little bit.

01:15:44 ◼   ► Not killer.

01:15:46 ◼   ► This is a terrible quote.

01:15:49 ◼   ► It's not really inspiring at all.

01:15:51 ◼   ► They're doing, you know.

01:15:53 ◼   ► So, D.

01:15:56 ◼   ► D.

01:15:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:58 ◼   ► D.

01:15:59 ◼   ► D it is.

01:16:00 ◼   ► Okay.

01:16:02 ◼   ► Okay.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I love this one.

01:16:06 ◼   ► All right.

01:16:06 ◼   ► So, 2018.

01:16:07 ◼   ► Again, talking about AI.

01:16:09 ◼   ► And I don't understand anymore what the...

01:16:13 ◼   ► Oh, he's talking about, like, screen time.

01:16:16 ◼   ► This is the...

01:16:17 ◼   ► This was the...

01:16:18 ◼   ► Digital well-being time.

01:16:19 ◼   ► Digital well-being.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Digital well-being.

01:16:21 ◼   ► Everybody care.

01:16:22 ◼   ► We were in digital well-being territory.

01:16:24 ◼   ► It's June of 2018.

01:16:25 ◼   ► Everybody decided this is what we were focusing on.

01:16:28 ◼   ► I think one day there will be a tell-all book that will say that there was some meeting

01:16:33 ◼   ► between Apple and Google where everybody decided that they were doing this.

01:16:36 ◼   ► So, they would try and get out with some kind of legislation.

01:16:38 ◼   ► And so, talking about screen time and stuff, Tim says, I don't really worry about machines

01:16:44 ◼   ► thinking like people.

01:16:45 ◼   ► I worry about people thinking like machines.

01:16:48 ◼   ► That's deep, man.

01:16:50 ◼   ► Is it?

01:16:51 ◼   ► Is it deep?

01:16:52 ◼   ► It's terrible.

01:16:52 ◼   ► It's deep in the way that when you're a freshman in college and you're in your dorm room talking

01:16:58 ◼   ► about things, you feel like everything is deep?

01:17:00 ◼   ► Yes.

01:17:00 ◼   ► Also, the future would say you probably should worry about machines thinking like people.

01:17:05 ◼   ► That's coming for us.

01:17:07 ◼   ► He doesn't know.

01:17:08 ◼   ► I think it's...

01:17:09 ◼   ► Nobody knows.

01:17:10 ◼   ► I think it's C.

01:17:11 ◼   ► No.

01:17:12 ◼   ► D.

01:17:13 ◼   ► No, it's worse.

01:17:14 ◼   ► D?

01:17:14 ◼   ► It's worse.

01:17:15 ◼   ► I would go to E.

01:17:16 ◼   ► I think this is just like terrible.

01:17:18 ◼   ► He's not really saying anything and what he is saying is not even that profound.

01:17:22 ◼   ► You know what?

01:17:22 ◼   ► This totally reads like a college kid high on something.

01:17:27 ◼   ► Be like, I don't really worry about machines, man, thinking like people, man.

01:17:31 ◼   ► I worry about the people thinking like machines, man.

01:17:35 ◼   ► Like, it reads like that.

01:17:36 ◼   ► And it's your color green, the same color green as the green I see.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Oh, that's...

01:17:40 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:17:40 ◼   ► That's concerning.

01:17:42 ◼   ► Okay.

01:17:45 ◼   ► We're winding down 2018 now.

01:17:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:49 ◼   ► This is another personal data collection issue.

01:17:55 ◼   ► This is...

01:17:56 ◼   ► I'm going to quote the full name.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Get ready.

01:17:58 ◼   ► He speaks...

01:17:59 ◼   ► You know how he...

01:18:00 ◼   ► Tim Cook used to speak at Goldman Sachs.

01:18:02 ◼   ► He then started speaking a lot at the Data Protection and Privacy Commission conferences in Brussels.

01:18:09 ◼   ► There are many of these to come.

01:18:11 ◼   ► The ICDP PC in Brussels, as is known in the industry.

01:18:17 ◼   ► Ictubic.

01:18:18 ◼   ► Ictubic.

01:18:19 ◼   ► Ictubic.

01:18:20 ◼   ► That's what we call it in the industry.

01:18:22 ◼   ► We shouldn't sugarcoat the consequences.

01:18:24 ◼   ► This is surveillance.

01:18:26 ◼   ► And these stockpiles of personal data serve only to enrich the companies that collect them.

01:18:31 ◼   ► So he is talking about everyone here.

01:18:34 ◼   ► He is talking about Google.

01:18:35 ◼   ► He is talking about Facebook.

01:18:37 ◼   ► He is talking about everyone.

01:18:39 ◼   ► And I think it's this one, but it might be ones later on where he's either sowing the seeds for or talking about app tracking transparency.

01:18:51 ◼   ► It's like around that kind of time.

01:18:53 ◼   ► C?

01:18:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I like it because this is like another area of time in which he's like going for the jugular.

01:19:04 ◼   ► So yeah, but C, there's better ones.

01:19:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not punchy enough to be like super memorable.

01:19:10 ◼   ► Memorable.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Hello.

01:19:13 ◼   ► Memorable?

01:19:15 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by Steven's brain.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Memorable.

01:19:22 ◼   ► Memorable.

01:19:22 ◼   ► He's really trying to keep the Squarespace in his brain, this one.

01:19:29 ◼   ► I know.

01:19:29 ◼   ► He's really trying his best.

01:19:30 ◼   ► We are now entering the modern era.

01:19:33 ◼   ► We have 15 quotes left to go out of the 44 we collected.

01:19:39 ◼   ► We can do this.

01:19:40 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Sentry.

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01:21:19 ◼   ► Our thanks to Sentry for the support of the show and Relay.

01:21:23 ◼   ► That means it's 2019, I suppose.

01:21:27 ◼   ► So here we are.

01:21:29 ◼   ► Tim Cook says, Apple's most important contribution to mankind has been in health.

01:21:37 ◼   ► I mean, this is just wrong, right?

01:21:40 ◼   ► Well, I think he thinks it's right, and I think he's come back to this recently.

01:21:46 ◼   ► More than the mouse?

01:21:49 ◼   ► Like, the entire graphical user interface?

01:21:52 ◼   ► Well, so the context is of how Apple's legacy may be judged in the future, which I think

01:21:57 ◼   ► he thinks it's his legacy.

01:21:58 ◼   ► Right.

01:22:00 ◼   ► Also, you should say humankind, not mankind, Tim.

01:22:02 ◼   ► Well, come on.

01:22:03 ◼   ► What are you doing?

01:22:03 ◼   ► I think this is 2019, then.

01:22:07 ◼   ► It's a different time.

01:22:08 ◼   ► I guess so.

01:22:09 ◼   ► I guess so.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Different time.

01:22:11 ◼   ► Maybe what he's trying to get across here, I think, which is what you're saying too, Stephen,

01:22:16 ◼   ► is like, maybe some of the things like computers and smartphones we may look back negatively on,

01:22:22 ◼   ► but we can all be happy about, like, our health being better kind of thing.

01:22:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Maybe he's trying to, like, you know, maybe people won't like the screens, but they'll

01:22:31 ◼   ► be happy that we were taking their blood pressure or whatever.

01:22:33 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:22:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:35 ◼   ► I mean, in this interview, it's with Jim Cramer, by the way, so just have that in the back of

01:22:43 ◼   ► your head.

01:22:43 ◼   ► Jim Cramer loves Kramer.

01:22:43 ◼   ► He loves Mad Money.

01:22:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:22:45 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, he's running around.

01:22:46 ◼   ► He's hitting sound effect buttons.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Uh, he goes on to say, because our business has always been about enriching people's lives,

01:22:55 ◼   ► and as we've gotten into healthcare more and more through the watch and through other things

01:22:59 ◼   ► like research kit and care kit and putting your medical records on the iPhone, this is a

01:23:05 ◼   ► huge deal.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Uh, it's fine.

01:23:10 ◼   ► It feels B.

01:23:12 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:23:12 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:23:13 ◼   ► It's, it's, it's, it's a B, maybe.

01:23:17 ◼   ► Put it in B, because I just want to stop putting things in C.

01:23:20 ◼   ► Yeah, the sentiment is correct.

01:23:22 ◼   ► Not the greatest quote, but it's a B.

01:23:25 ◼   ► A B, okay.

01:23:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:27 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:30 ◼   ► More about screen time and digital well-being.

01:23:35 ◼   ► This is truly a reflection of that era.

01:23:39 ◼   ► Yes, and think about the front of the Vision Pro

01:23:42 ◼   ► headset when I say this.

01:23:43 ◼   ► If you're looking at a phone more than someone's eyes, you're doing the wrong thing.

01:23:49 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:23:51 ◼   ► So we put the eyes on the screens.

01:23:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:53 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:23:54 ◼   ► Yes.

01:23:55 ◼   ► Uh, this is another, uh, CNBC thing.

01:23:58 ◼   ► Uh, this is another, uh, CNBC thing.

01:24:00 ◼   ► Um, I think this is one of those classic quotes that we have seen today of Cook thinks it's

01:24:08 ◼   ► more clever than it actually is, or, like, more punchy than it actually is.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:13 ◼   ► I think it's, I think it's, I don't think he's wrong, but I don't think it's as impactful as

01:24:19 ◼   ► maybe he wanted it to be.

01:24:21 ◼   ► It's also not impactful from the screens company, right?

01:24:25 ◼   ► Like, it's not impactful from the phone maker, right?

01:24:29 ◼   ► Like, you did this.

01:24:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:32 ◼   ► That's the thing that absolutely, I understand people wanting redemption and, like, making

01:24:38 ◼   ► changes, and people can do those things.

01:24:39 ◼   ► But when a bunch of people who invented the iPhone run around and be like, we need something

01:24:43 ◼   ► without screens, the screens are ruining it.

01:24:45 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, like you said, Mike, we did this.

01:24:46 ◼   ► Um, I think it's D.

01:24:48 ◼   ► I think it's D.

01:24:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:24:51 ◼   ► D or E?

01:24:52 ◼   ► One of the two.

01:24:53 ◼   ► Let's go D.

01:24:55 ◼   ► D.

01:24:56 ◼   ► Okay.

01:24:57 ◼   ► Okay.

01:24:59 ◼   ► Yet another graduation commencement, this time to Tulane in 2019.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Mike, I think you should read this because it's got, it's got trolls in it again.

01:25:09 ◼   ► Is this the troll spot?

01:25:11 ◼   ► I'm so excited.

01:25:12 ◼   ► I'm so happy.

01:25:14 ◼   ► All right.

01:25:14 ◼   ► So he loves trolls and commencement speeches.

01:25:18 ◼   ► Uh, what is going on?

01:25:21 ◼   ► When you find empathy, the political noise dies down and you can feel your feet firmly planted

01:25:26 ◼   ► on solid ground.

01:25:27 ◼   ► After all, we don't find, after all, we don't build monuments to trolls and we're not going

01:25:35 ◼   ► to start now.

01:25:38 ◼   ► I don't know what he, what he's talking about.

01:25:40 ◼   ► It doesn't age well.

01:25:41 ◼   ► I don't know what he's talking about.

01:25:42 ◼   ► It doesn't age well.

01:25:43 ◼   ► We don't build monuments to trolls.

01:25:46 ◼   ► Monuments to trolls.

01:25:47 ◼   ► Do you give them trophies?

01:25:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Yes.

01:25:51 ◼   ► Well, we don't build monuments.

01:25:53 ◼   ► We make, we, we make trophies instead.

01:25:56 ◼   ► It's a different thing.

01:25:57 ◼   ► I think it's, I think it's D.

01:25:59 ◼   ► I think it's a good idea.

01:26:00 ◼   ► I think it's a little naive.

01:26:02 ◼   ► Um, and again, it feels like one of those commencement sentences that like, doesn't really make a lot

01:26:09 ◼   ► of sense when you break it down.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:13 ◼   ► It's aged very badly because it also, it's like, it screams of like both sides ism, you

01:26:18 ◼   ► know?

01:26:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:19 ◼   ► Uh, it's, it's not, I don't like this quote really, you know?

01:26:23 ◼   ► So would you say you don't love it?

01:26:25 ◼   ► I would say yikes don't love this.

01:26:27 ◼   ► I could say that.

01:26:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:26:29 ◼   ► So that means it's an E tier.

01:26:30 ◼   ► Okay.

01:26:32 ◼   ► I'm happy the trolls are back though.

01:26:33 ◼   ► If anything, they never left Mike.

01:26:36 ◼   ► They never left.

01:26:37 ◼   ► The trolls are in the room of us the whole time.

01:26:38 ◼   ► All right.

01:26:42 ◼   ► Summer of 2019.

01:26:43 ◼   ► This is again, CNBC, uh, and a commencement speech, I guess, reported on by CNBC.

01:26:52 ◼   ► He's at Stanford this time.

01:26:53 ◼   ► He's doing another commencement.

01:26:54 ◼   ► He did.

01:26:55 ◼   ► I had no idea he's done so many of these, honestly.

01:26:58 ◼   ► He just, you know, just do him, you know, it's like every, every university wants him

01:27:02 ◼   ► to do it.

01:27:03 ◼   ► Right.

01:27:03 ◼   ► He's the CEO of Apple.

01:27:04 ◼   ► And it turns out if you just ask, he'll do it.

01:27:07 ◼   ► You know, my, um, my youngest is getting ready to graduate fifth grade.

01:27:10 ◼   ► Maybe Tim Cook could come.

01:27:11 ◼   ► You should talk about that.

01:27:13 ◼   ► He's not got, he hasn't got so much to do anymore.

01:27:16 ◼   ► He's going to do even more of them.

01:27:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:27:17 ◼   ► So in this, he warns that Silicon Valley needs to take responsibility for the chaos that

01:27:24 ◼   ► it has created.

01:27:25 ◼   ► Um, I'm going to read it in context.

01:27:28 ◼   ► Uh, so Cook said, lately, it seems this industry is becoming better known for a less noble

01:27:34 ◼   ► innovation.

01:27:34 ◼   ► The belief that you can claim credit without accepting responsibility.

01:27:38 ◼   ► We see it every day now with every data breach, every privacy violation, every blind eye towards

01:27:45 ◼   ► hate speech, fake news, poisoning our national conversation, the false miracles in exchange

01:27:51 ◼   ► for a single drop of your blood.

01:27:54 ◼   ► That's intense.

01:27:54 ◼   ► That's intense.

01:27:55 ◼   ► He continued.

01:27:56 ◼   ► It feels a bit crazy that anyone would have to say this, but if you built a chaos factory, you

01:28:02 ◼   ► can't dodge responsibility for the chaos.

01:28:05 ◼   ► I think he finally worked out how to do a commencement speech.

01:28:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:10 ◼   ► Cause this is good.

01:28:11 ◼   ► I like this.

01:28:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:12 ◼   ► I like this one.

01:28:14 ◼   ► I think it's solid.

01:28:15 ◼   ► I would give him an A tier for this.

01:28:18 ◼   ► I like the reference of blood.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:19 ◼   ► I don't even know why blood's in it.

01:28:21 ◼   ► Like, great.

01:28:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:22 ◼   ► Okay.

01:28:23 ◼   ► Give him like a, what are you doing?

01:28:24 ◼   ► Like a, like a, some kind of ritual.

01:28:26 ◼   ► I love it.

01:28:27 ◼   ► Let's go.

01:28:28 ◼   ► Okay.

01:28:28 ◼   ► A it is.

01:28:29 ◼   ► Yet another.

01:28:32 ◼   ► He's done so many commencement speeches.

01:28:36 ◼   ► This is a virtual one though.

01:28:37 ◼   ► Oh, boo.

01:28:39 ◼   ► It was COVID May of 2020.

01:28:41 ◼   ► Oh, I guess not boo.

01:28:42 ◼   ► I don't know why I booed that.

01:28:44 ◼   ► No, Tim, go talk to them in person.

01:28:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:28:47 ◼   ► Why was I so mad about that?

01:28:50 ◼   ► It was May of 2020.

01:28:51 ◼   ► I do remember this one because he's like talking into a camera, I guess in his office

01:28:56 ◼   ► or on a set somewhere at Apple and he's wearing an Ohio state shirt.

01:28:59 ◼   ► Tim Cook is not an Ohio state fan, but I guess he's like, he's playing with the crowd.

01:29:03 ◼   ► He's dressing down, you know?

01:29:05 ◼   ► He is dressed down.

01:29:06 ◼   ► Also, this is Tim.

01:29:07 ◼   ► He's at home.

01:29:08 ◼   ► This is Tim Cook's swole arm era.

01:29:11 ◼   ► Look at this picture.

01:29:12 ◼   ► Like.

01:29:13 ◼   ► Do you think he had trousers on?

01:29:14 ◼   ► Where?

01:29:15 ◼   ► Where's the picture?

01:29:15 ◼   ► It's in the, the, the new, it's in the.

01:29:20 ◼   ► Here, I'll put it in there.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Y'all can see it.

01:29:22 ◼   ► What are you doing?

01:29:23 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:29:25 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:29:26 ◼   ► Swole.

01:29:26 ◼   ► I remember this now.

01:29:27 ◼   ► Swole arms.

01:29:28 ◼   ► He's got Ohio bookmarks.

01:29:30 ◼   ► I know.

01:29:30 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

01:29:31 ◼   ► He's really sucking up.

01:29:31 ◼   ► The football has a little.

01:29:33 ◼   ► Why did he go this hard?

01:29:34 ◼   ► The little football has an Ohio state.

01:29:36 ◼   ► You know, I don't know.

01:29:38 ◼   ► Anyways, he says, it can be difficult to see the whole picture when you're still inside

01:29:45 ◼   ► the frame.

01:29:45 ◼   ► Tim, what happened?

01:29:47 ◼   ► You finally got good at them.

01:29:50 ◼   ► Why did you, why did you do that?

01:29:52 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:29:53 ◼   ► Oh, it's all COVID-y too, right?

01:29:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:29:58 ◼   ► It's just like, while we aren't shoulder to shoulder in the horseshoe, filling it to the

01:30:02 ◼   ► rafters.

01:30:03 ◼   ► I know your parents, your loved ones.

01:30:05 ◼   ► I mean, you know, you can't really fault him for like being COVID-y during COVID.

01:30:10 ◼   ► It was May 2020.

01:30:11 ◼   ► We all were.

01:30:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:30:13 ◼   ► This is too COVID-y though, as a coach.

01:30:15 ◼   ► But I feel like I can't mark him down on that one.

01:30:18 ◼   ► I think it's, I think it's C.

01:30:19 ◼   ► I think it's right in the middle.