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Connected

S-Tier: Jason Snell

 

00:00:00   From Relay, this is Connected, episode 597. It's almost 600, folks. It's going to be a big one.

00:00:14   I am your keynote chairman, Federico Vittici. Today's show is brought to you by our sponsors,

00:00:18   Sentry and Squarespace. And along with our sponsors, I also want to introduce my esteemed

00:00:25   colleague, annual chairman, Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen. Hello, Federico. Hi. Hi.

00:00:31   How's the chair of the chairman? It's good. Still comfortable? We had some feedback about

00:00:37   nations run by two people. We can't get into that today, but we are a good example of it,

00:00:43   I think. Okay. And, of course, leaders need followers, and so we're also joined by Mike.

00:00:51   Is that like when there's a president and then a prime minister or whatever? Some countries have

00:00:58   that, right? They have both? A lot of the examples we got were worse than that.

00:01:03   Oh. But it's fine.

00:01:05   I mean, we have a king and a prime minister. That's not too bad. I actually quite like it. It's nice.

00:01:13   We have the follow-up to end all follow-up today.

00:01:16   So this is the last follow-up? Is that what you're saying?

00:01:18   No, but it is incredible.

00:01:21   So we need to set the scene. I got a box in the mail yesterday that I opened, and I was very confused by

00:01:32   from our friend, Matt Van Ormer, who is a moderator in the Discord.

00:01:37   That's awesome.

00:01:39   Dr. Van Ormer.

00:01:40   Dr. Matt Van Ormer, which is going to come up in a second. But first, we're going to play a clip

00:01:46   from 2023 to set the stage.

00:01:48   If you want to send me an ice letter, though, it's P.O. Box 241714, Memphis, Tennessee 38124.

00:02:00   An ice letter or an ice letter?

00:02:04   Because we could also try to send you an ice letter.

00:02:10   Like one of those swan sculpture things?

00:02:12   It's not a very big P.O. Box.

00:02:16   You're like shoving it in there.

00:02:18   So back then, Federico thought I said ice letter.

00:02:26   We made a joke.

00:02:26   At the time, someone sent me a lovely 3D printed swan that looked like an ice sculpture.

00:02:33   But this box, okay, it shows up.

00:02:36   It has labels on the outside of it, including medical purpose and dry ice.

00:02:42   Nice.

00:02:43   Terrifying labels.

00:02:45   Pretty scary.

00:02:46   Pretty scary.

00:02:47   I crack it open, and what is inside is the chapter art right now.

00:02:53   And if you're listening live, I just put it in the Discord.

00:02:56   It is a Macintosh made of ice.

00:02:59   An ice Mac.

00:03:01   And I was very confused by this, obviously.

00:03:06   Were you excited by it, though?

00:03:08   Very excited.

00:03:09   But also, I had no idea what was happening.

00:03:11   I will say, I've never opened a box more gingerly.

00:03:15   Like, I cut open the top of it, and then there's a box inside the box, and I open it, and it's got dry ice in it.

00:03:21   So, it's, like, fog is rolling out of the box, and inside of that-

00:03:25   This must have been pretty scary, man.

00:03:27   It was pretty frightening.

00:03:28   So, explain this to me.

00:03:30   Is it cold to the touch?

00:03:32   Very cold.

00:03:33   You can't touch it, though, right?

00:03:34   Not supposed to touch it.

00:03:35   You're not supposed to touch it.

00:03:36   Yeah.

00:03:36   Is it melting?

00:03:37   No.

00:03:38   The dry ice is inside a styrofoam thing inside the box, and nestled in the center of the dry ice, and yet another package is this frozen, regular ice Macintosh that Matt made me.

00:03:56   Now, can I ask, and just give me an honest answer, did you understand who this was from before you started the opening process?

00:04:05   Did it have Matt's name on it?

00:04:07   The day before, all he sent me was a FedEx link.

00:04:10   Okay.

00:04:11   Because-

00:04:12   I knew it was from him.

00:04:13   I'm pleased he did that, because I think we've spoken about anthrax on this show before.

00:04:18   Yes.

00:04:19   Like, if I opened the package, and fog started pouring out of it, I would leave.

00:04:25   Like, I wouldn't stick around, you know?

00:04:28   So, I'm happy that Dr. Van Orme did say to you that this was coming, you know?

00:04:37   Yeah.

00:04:38   Otherwise, I would have think that I was being murdered.

00:04:41   But I was not being murdered.

00:04:44   But obviously, I was like, what is happening?

00:04:46   And so, Matt linked me to something he wrote in Discord in 2023 when the ice letter thing happened.

00:04:55   Yeah.

00:04:56   He said, again, this is over three years ago,

00:04:59   Stephen, you are aware that A, I have access to dry ice,

00:05:02   B, have a federal certification to ship things with dry ice,

00:05:07   which I didn't know you needed,

00:05:08   a penchant for japes,

00:05:11   and that my membership is challenging to revoke.

00:05:15   This is the longest game, I think, that's ever been played with us on the show.

00:05:19   Do we know why it took Matt close to three years to do this?

00:05:24   I think he was working-

00:05:25   Did Matt get the certification just to pull this-

00:05:28   No, Matt works in medical research,

00:05:32   and I think three years ago, he was still getting his PhD,

00:05:35   and so, you know, and then they had a kid.

00:05:37   Like, I think he was just busy.

00:05:38   Has Matt misappropriated dry ice meant for medicine?

00:05:41   I do wonder about that.

00:05:44   Was this ice supposed to save someone's life?

00:05:47   Maybe.

00:05:47   Was there an organ inside?

00:05:48   Be careful.

00:05:50   I don't know, even a tiny bit of kidney?

00:05:52   Stephen, have you seen anything in the box?

00:05:54   Did you open to the box entirely?

00:05:57   Did it have, like, a please forward to this location?

00:06:00   Was it pulsing when you opened it up?

00:06:03   So, yeah, this is incredible.

00:06:09   He said it was very challenging.

00:06:11   He made a mold, and then figured out how to do clear ice.

00:06:15   I mean, you'd have to, right?

00:06:16   Unless he's, like, chiseled in it?

00:06:18   I don't think he can do that.

00:06:19   Yeah.

00:06:20   Well, bravo, Dr. Van Orme.

00:06:22   I mean, I don't know why you did this,

00:06:24   but I really respect you for doing it.

00:06:26   It's very good.

00:06:27   And I will never give you my home address.

00:06:29   Yeah, no, that was a mistake.

00:06:31   Matt, I feel like my knee has been acting up lately.

00:06:40   Any chance you can ship me something?

00:06:43   A new knee?

00:06:44   What do you want?

00:06:45   Like, what's he going to ship you?

00:06:47   I don't know.

00:06:47   It depends on what he has in the transplant warehouse.

00:06:49   Yeah, what are you certified for?

00:06:51   Yeah.

00:06:53   You want to get one of those exoskeletons

00:06:55   that the influencers all seem to be posting about?

00:06:57   What?

00:06:58   Have you seen this?

00:06:59   What?

00:06:59   No.

00:06:59   You're not on the level of tech YouTube and Instagram that I'm on.

00:07:03   Everyone's got this, like, exoskeleton thing now.

00:07:06   No, the algorithm has not served me that yet.

00:07:11   I'm sure it'll come up because they're listening on Zoom.

00:07:14   Yeah.

00:07:15   I found a short from friend of the show, Austin Evans.

00:07:19   I will put it in the show notes, and I will send it to you both.

00:07:21   It's called the Hypershell Exoskeleton.

00:07:23   This is what you need, Federico.

00:07:25   Maybe Matt can get you a prescription for one.

00:07:27   I don't know.

00:07:27   Maybe.

00:07:28   I'm putting in the show notes from the Code of Federal Regulations, Title 49, Subtitle B, Chapter 1, Subchapter C, Part 173, Subpart E, 173.217, which is what you need to do to ship something with solid dry ice.

00:07:51   Do you think Matt followed these rules?

00:07:52   I mean, I'm looking through this, and, like, these labels were what was on the box.

00:07:56   Wow.

00:07:59   I wonder how much you paid to ship it, because it was overnight from the Midwest.

00:08:04   I mean, it would have to be, wouldn't it?

00:08:06   Yeah.

00:08:08   I don't know if non-overnight shipping works in this scenario.

00:08:13   Yeah.

00:08:15   Anyways, thank you, Matt.

00:08:16   Incredible stuff.

00:08:18   Incredible stuff.

00:08:19   All time.

00:08:20   This is an all-timer.

00:08:21   Mm-hmm.

00:08:22   Now we have regular follow-up.

00:08:25   Speaking of an all-timer, let's go on the exact opposite and read some poems.

00:08:29   I mean, you call this regular.

00:08:30   Yes.

00:08:31   That's great.

00:08:32   Poetic follow-up.

00:08:33   Yeah.

00:08:34   Darren wrote in.

00:08:35   So I'd ask for some poetry.

00:08:36   Darren wrote in.

00:08:38   Steven keeps asking for some poetry feedback.

00:08:41   Let the games begin.

00:08:44   Little finder guy found a way onto show art and into our hearts.

00:08:48   These are haikus?

00:08:49   They are.

00:08:50   Which is why they don't rhyme?

00:08:51   Yes.

00:08:52   Yeah, okay.

00:08:53   And then Anonymous wrote in with three.

00:08:55   Oh, my word.

00:08:57   I use iCloud Drive.

00:08:59   You guys worry way too much.

00:09:01   What are you scared of?

00:09:02   Good question.

00:09:04   Pretty good.

00:09:04   My sky blue MacBook?

00:09:06   It does not hold my files.

00:09:08   I don't need local.

00:09:12   That last line could use some polishing, I think.

00:09:14   And then, thirdly, join the CIA.

00:09:18   What?

00:09:19   It would be so cool to do.

00:09:21   They need Apple nerds.

00:09:23   We took a turn that I'm uncomfortable with.

00:09:26   I'm not really sure why we're here.

00:09:27   There's a government recruiting program?

00:09:30   Maybe.

00:09:30   Why are we in the CIA?

00:09:32   Why is the CIA in the show now?

00:09:34   Why has that happened?

00:09:35   I think this must be a reference to something we mentioned, but I don't remember it.

00:09:39   And we also had some anonymous feedback about Backblaze.

00:09:45   We spoke on a previous pro show about our file storage, both locally and in the cloud, and what we're doing to back it up, that sort of thing.

00:09:52   So, anonymous wrote, I was dismayed to recently learn that Backblaze quite released an update that now excludes cloud storage from backups, as of version 9.2.2.878.

00:10:05   There's a link in the show notes.

00:10:08   Reading from that document, recent macOS versions can mount cloud storage, for example, Google Drive, OneDrive, and Dropbox, in local paths, causing the backup client to mistakenly back them up.

00:10:20   These cloud-mounted folders are now detected and excluded to avoid performance issues, excessive data usage, and restore complications.

00:10:29   This is a problem.

00:10:30   This ruined my day.

00:10:32   Okay.

00:10:32   So, for non-pro show listeners.

00:10:36   What are you doing?

00:10:36   Join.

00:10:37   Yeah, ridiculous.

00:10:38   Honestly, ridiculous behavior.

00:10:40   But anyway, I store all my files in Dropbox and felt happy about the fact that I was backing up my Dropbox to Backblaze.

00:10:47   I logged into my Backblaze account today, and all of my Dropbox files are not in my Backblaze backup anymore.

00:10:53   Yeah.

00:10:54   So, I have a problem, and I don't know what to do about it.

00:11:00   And Zoe's asking a good question.

00:11:03   Why do you need to back up cloud storage with Backblaze?

00:11:05   The reason is, I do not have all of my Dropbox files stored locally on my computer because my Dropbox account is too large.

00:11:14   Yeah.

00:11:14   And so, I don't feel comfortable about only having them on Dropbox, and so I liked the idea of also having them in Backblaze as well because I would download them at some point, and then they would get backed up to Backblaze.

00:11:28   So, now I figure what I have to do is I have to have something that I can download my entire Dropbox.

00:11:36   I don't even know what to do.

00:11:37   I don't know.

00:11:38   Every time I start thinking out loud what I'm going to do about this, I then realize it's not going to work.

00:11:43   I can solve this for you.

00:11:44   I'm not going to get what I want.

00:11:45   Okay, go on then.

00:11:46   Go to Apple.com.

00:11:48   Yep.

00:11:49   Buy a Mac Studio with an 8TB drive.

00:11:52   I don't need a Mac Studio, but carry on.

00:11:54   Well, what else has an 8TB drive?

00:11:55   You can't get that in a Mac Mini.

00:11:56   Mac Mini.

00:11:57   Can you?

00:11:57   Yes, you can.

00:11:58   Yes, you can.

00:11:59   Okay, get a Mac Mini, M4 Pro.

00:12:02   I already priced this up today, and this is one of the things I backed away from.

00:12:09   Oh, this is an expensive computer.

00:12:11   Yes.

00:12:12   Yeah.

00:12:12   Say I went with 4TB, it's $2,600, or 8TB is $3,800.

00:12:20   It is more expensive than the computer that I use right now.

00:12:24   Yeah, well, it's a server, so you can, and obviously you need 10 gig Ethernet to make

00:12:28   it fast.

00:12:28   So do that, sign Dropbox into that machine, and have it all locally, and then back them

00:12:35   up with Time Machine.

00:12:36   Assuming Time Machine does this, does the Time Machine exclude cloud backups?

00:12:41   No, I don't think so.

00:12:42   I don't think so.

00:12:43   I think Backblaze is making a policy decision here because they don't want to take my Dropbox

00:12:49   data because it's a lot of data.

00:12:51   Yes.

00:12:51   I'm very annoyed about this, by the way.

00:12:53   Like, I'm very, very, very frustrated about this because I feel like this breaks the promise

00:13:00   between me and Backblaze because they have removed things from my backup without ever telling

00:13:04   me about it.

00:13:05   It's not good.

00:13:06   It's not good.

00:13:07   I'm really very frustrated about this as a long-time Backblaze customer to the point that

00:13:12   I'm not willing to recommend them to people anymore because I find it to be really rough.

00:13:17   Like, they, I had all this stuff in my Backblaze account, right?

00:13:24   It was all in there.

00:13:25   And it's just not there anymore.

00:13:28   It's like, I understand if you don't want to do this, but like, I feel like you need to

00:13:32   tell me.

00:13:32   And they didn't, right?

00:13:34   Was it there?

00:13:34   Putting it in the release notes of your, of your client is not telling me about this.

00:13:39   Was it there though?

00:13:41   Because if you're not syncing them locally, like, I don't think Backblaze...

00:13:45   Some of it is though.

00:13:46   Some of it is.

00:13:47   Okay.

00:13:47   Maybe it was backing that up, but it wasn't going out and like fetching things off the

00:13:51   Dropbox server to back them up.

00:13:53   I have like a terabyte of stuff locally that's from my Dropbox and it was be like on my

00:13:57   Mac mini and that was all being backed up.

00:14:00   And those are the important files, right?

00:14:01   That was all being backed up because I used to be able to go into my Backblaze account on

00:14:07   my phone and grab a file or whatever, right?

00:14:09   But this is not, none of it's there anymore.

00:14:12   I mean, you can also just do that with the Dropbox app.

00:14:14   I mean, I agree with you.

00:14:18   It doesn't, it doesn't solve the problem of the data only being in one place, but you

00:14:24   would have access to it other ways.

00:14:25   Yes.

00:14:27   But I'm anyway, it is a bummer.

00:14:30   Maybe, look, maybe they didn't, I don't know, but this is how it appears to be to me.

00:14:34   But anyway, I just, I just don't know what to do now because I now just have data that

00:14:38   only exists in one place.

00:14:39   So maybe that's just going to have to be how I live my life.

00:14:42   Yeah.

00:14:43   Or get an ass.

00:14:45   Yeah.

00:14:46   Or that.

00:14:47   I mean, does this stuff need to be on Dropbox?

00:14:49   Like, like realistically?

00:14:50   I mean, no, but then where am I going to put it?

00:14:54   I like having access to my files on every computer.

00:14:56   Yeah.

00:14:57   Like, that's just nice, you know?

00:15:00   It is nice.

00:15:01   Yeah.

00:15:02   Okay.

00:15:03   And then someone wrote us in to tell us that MDMA is a real thing.

00:15:09   Right.

00:15:10   Okay.

00:15:10   So you've done it wrong again.

00:15:11   You said the wrong thing again.

00:15:13   MD.

00:15:14   M-D-A.

00:15:16   M-D-A.

00:15:16   And I said MDMA.

00:15:18   MDMA is the drug.

00:15:19   You said M-D-A.

00:15:20   And like, okay, there is a drug called M-D-A, but it wasn't what you meant.

00:15:24   Proven by the fact that you said it wrong again.

00:15:26   But there is a Wikipedia article.

00:15:27   This Wikipedia article.

00:15:29   Yeah.

00:15:30   Okay.

00:15:31   There's also a Wikipedia article for M-D-A.

00:15:33   I don't know why we're talking about this.

00:15:35   Because that's the drug you're talking about.

00:15:36   Yeah.

00:15:37   Anyways.

00:15:38   Yeah.

00:15:39   I don't know.

00:15:40   I've never done drugs.

00:15:41   Okay.

00:15:42   But this is one of the scenarios where it's like, yes, this follow-up is correct.

00:15:47   It's not what Stephen was saying, though.

00:15:49   No.

00:15:49   Justice for Stephen.

00:15:50   Yeah.

00:15:51   Justice for Stephen.

00:15:52   Speaking of justice, Lil' Finder guy's back.

00:15:55   We don't have to gender them.

00:15:58   Just Lil' Finder.

00:16:00   You did this.

00:16:02   Basic Apple guy did it, who also gendered themselves in their name, I guess.

00:16:06   Hang on a minute.

00:16:06   Let me go to 512pixels.net.

00:16:09   But I changed because I grew, you know?

00:16:13   Okay.

00:16:13   That's really good.

00:16:14   But I'm going to your website, and I'm just scrolling through posts.

00:16:16   So you can talk about what is happening here.

00:16:19   This is a good website.

00:16:20   And I'm just going to go to your website.

00:16:22   So you can talk about what these...

00:16:24   Oh, Lil' Finder.

00:16:25   But Lil' Finder, just Lil' Finder.

00:16:28   If we're going to get rid of guy, we need to change it.

00:16:31   Like, Lil' Finder is not good.

00:16:33   Go on Lil' Finder.

00:16:34   But I see here, more on Lil' Finder guy.

00:16:37   So I found it on your website.

00:16:38   Okay.

00:16:38   Well, that's referencing, you know, basic Apple person.

00:16:42   Okay.

00:16:43   Well, they call themselves basic Apple guys.

00:16:45   You don't need to change that.

00:16:47   You don't have to just wipe it out everywhere.

00:16:51   It's fine.

00:16:51   I've taken it out of that headline.

00:16:52   Also, I know their real name.

00:16:54   It's weird.

00:16:54   Okay.

00:16:55   Okay.

00:16:55   That's good for you.

00:16:56   So Apple is back with new short videos, not just on TikTok.

00:16:59   They're also on their YouTube channel about the MacBook Neo.

00:17:02   And Lil' Finder is there teaching things, sometimes playing music.

00:17:09   At one point, laying down, face down.

00:17:11   Well, so this is the question that I have, right?

00:17:13   So in these videos, they're very good videos.

00:17:15   And they're kind of just showing off different things that macOS can do.

00:17:18   Yeah.

00:17:19   Which is just like, it's really nice.

00:17:20   And they're really well presented.

00:17:21   There is a voiceover, and Lil' Findy is also there.

00:17:25   Now, is Lil' Findy doing the voiceover?

00:17:27   Or are they just a character?

00:17:28   And this is what I want to understand here now, you know?

00:17:31   Yeah.

00:17:32   That's a question that keeps me up at night.

00:17:35   Like who?

00:17:36   These videos, by the way, are amazing.

00:17:39   The one of them about the ring light is fantastic because you see Lil' Findy making a FaceTime call,

00:17:44   which is just excellent.

00:17:45   There's lots of questions about this.

00:17:50   Oh, it was underscore.

00:17:52   On Macedon, I was like, what if people who go to WBC get one of these, like in the thank you bag?

00:17:59   And let me just put this in the world.

00:18:01   I don't expect a WBC press invite, although I would like one.

00:18:05   I'm going to be there, though.

00:18:08   And I would love not to leave Cupertino without one of these.

00:18:12   And so, if you work for Apple or you're at WBC and you don't want yours, just find me.

00:18:19   Finder me.

00:18:21   Do you remember that time when Underscore gave me the WWDC Levi's jacket?

00:18:26   That was cool.

00:18:26   I was very angry.

00:18:28   Maybe Underscore would just give you your own little findy if you can't get one.

00:18:31   Maybe.

00:18:31   Maybe.

00:18:33   I mean, is this enough to apply for a WWDC pass?

00:18:37   Like, on the off chance?

00:18:38   You might get a little vinyl figure.

00:18:41   The developer one?

00:18:42   Yeah, maybe.

00:18:44   I actually put my name in as a developer for the first time.

00:18:47   But you legitimately count now.

00:18:52   I do.

00:18:52   Yeah.

00:18:53   Yeah.

00:18:53   So, we'll see, you know.

00:18:55   We'll WWDC soon.

00:19:03   This episode of the show is brought to you by Sentry.

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00:20:30   and like I said, here at Relay as well.

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00:20:34   Go to Sentry.io, S-E-N-T-R-Y, Sentry.io, and tell them that we sent you.

00:20:41   They have a free dev plan and listeners of Connected can use the code CONNECTED26 to get $100 in

00:20:50   Sentry credits.

00:20:51   That's Sentry.io and the code CONNECTED26 for $100 in credit.

00:20:56   My thanks to Sentry for the support of the show and Relay.

00:21:00   Federico, I have bad news for you.

00:21:04   Okay.

00:21:05   The Mac Pro is dead.

00:21:06   Told you I would do it when I was in charge.

00:21:08   Yeah.

00:21:09   Last week, I think you said, right?

00:21:11   If you were at Apple, you would kill the Mac Pro.

00:21:14   I think it was a few hours before it happened.

00:21:17   Yeah, it was the same day because it was Thursday.

00:21:19   Yeah.

00:21:19   Yeah.

00:21:21   It was absolutely wild.

00:21:22   Yeah, they made a statement to 9to5Mac.

00:21:25   It's gone.

00:21:25   It's not coming back.

00:21:27   And David, on Macedon, wants to know if Federico manifested its death.

00:21:33   No, I mean, it was some things are in the air, you know?

00:21:38   It was in the air.

00:21:39   I mean, if you ask me, it was kind of ridiculous that it was still there.

00:21:45   I mean, put that thing out of its misery, you know?

00:21:49   Yeah.

00:21:49   Yeah, for real.

00:21:50   It was a lot of time.

00:21:50   Yeah.

00:21:51   For real.

00:21:52   Mike and I each, at different times, owned Mac Pros.

00:21:58   Yeah.

00:22:00   You had the worst one.

00:22:02   Yeah.

00:22:02   Yeah.

00:22:02   So, I came to realize, looking at today's show notes, like, I feel like I've, internally,

00:22:08   this was almost like a bit of therapy for me.

00:22:10   Because I feel like in recent years, I've been very much in the camp of kill the Mac Pro.

00:22:15   You know, like, I've been very against it, and saying that it shouldn't exist.

00:22:19   And now I realize, I think the reason I feel this way is because we spent a lot of money

00:22:24   on a Mac Pro for me, and it was an absolute piece of trash.

00:22:27   I had the 2013 Trashcam Mac Pro, which we bought using some of our, the first money we made

00:22:35   at Relay, which I was very happy to have that computer.

00:22:38   But the problem was, very often, I'd be recording a podcast, and I think it was the GPU was the

00:22:45   problem, but we could never work it out at the time.

00:22:47   But I think it came out later what the big issue was with that machine.

00:22:50   It would just completely die, but not in a way where the computer would restart.

00:22:55   It would just 100% lock up.

00:22:57   I could still hear people talking.

00:23:00   Yes, and my recordings would fail, because I had to reboot the machine.

00:23:05   And so this is when I actually switched from recording in MP3 to recording in WAV, because

00:23:10   at least it wouldn't corrupt the file.

00:23:13   We didn't know this for a long time, so I had to end up, I mean, for a while, I was, with

00:23:18   Upgrade, it seemed to happen a lot.

00:23:20   Where I had to kind of, like, pull audio backups out of Wirecast, and I had to, like, take

00:23:29   Jason's file, and I had to do this trick with an app called Sound Studio to invert Jason's

00:23:36   audio file, replace it over the top of the mixed track of the both of us, so I could get an

00:23:43   isolated version of my audio.

00:23:46   It was, like, one of the worst times of my life was dealing with this computer, and so

00:23:50   I think this machine, which I can't believe I sold to someone and they wanted it, like,

00:23:56   they were, like, I think, like a visual effects house, and so, you know, it ended up going

00:23:59   okay in the end.

00:24:01   And I replaced it with an iMac Pro, which is, like, you go from the worst to the best, you

00:24:06   know?

00:24:06   And I was very happy with the iMac Pro, but man, that trash can Mac Pro, just terrible.

00:24:12   Beautiful computer.

00:24:14   Terrible to use.

00:24:18   I've got one now.

00:24:19   As Jason pointed out, maybe it was just, I forget where it was.

00:24:23   Oh, it was on MacBreak, that the, you can get a trash can now for basically nothing on

00:24:29   eBay, so if you want one, like, for just to have, now's the time.

00:24:32   Maybe you could get one, Mike, and we, like, destroy it somehow.

00:24:35   I don't want to do that.

00:24:37   They're still really nice.

00:24:38   You got one, the ATP boys gave you one, right?

00:24:41   They did, uh, WWC one year, I produced their live show, and, uh, they gave me one as a

00:24:49   gift on stage, um, and I was all the way, it was at the Hammer, I was all the way upstairs

00:24:53   in the sound booth, and they, like, hey, come down here, and it, it, I, I've never been more

00:24:58   aware of time than how long it took me to get to the stage.

00:25:01   Uh, but yes, I have it here, it's on the bookcase, uh, next to my desk.

00:25:07   Um, I never used one, though.

00:25:10   I, I used it for our live show that year on stage, um, we bought a display for it that

00:25:15   we'll never mention again, but.

00:25:16   That, that display that we left underneath the thing in the hotel room?

00:25:21   It's fine.

00:25:22   Uh, I, I never used it, like, I didn't have one at the time, um, but I did own a 2019.

00:25:31   I was at WWC when it was announced, uh, Sparks and I had the product manager for it on Mac

00:25:37   Power Users, which was really cool.

00:25:39   Um, so I really felt, like, connected to that machine, and I bought one when they came out,

00:25:44   uh, at the very end of 19.

00:25:47   I think mine showed up, actually, in, in early 20.

00:25:49   Uh, and I used it for several years, and I would have used it longer, but sort of the,

00:25:55   the story of the 19 Mac Pro is that it shipped, and then Apple Silicon was announced literally

00:26:01   seven months later, and shipped nine months later, and the, uh, the value of that thing

00:26:07   was plummeting, and I was like, well, I own this as a business, like, I can't just watch

00:26:11   all this money evaporate.

00:26:12   So, um, sold it off, but it was fantastic.

00:26:17   It was expensive, of course, and overkill, of course, but it was so solid, and I loved having

00:26:25   all the storage inside of it, being able to expand it.

00:26:28   Uh, it was a very fun thing to own, but, uh, even then, right, the writing was on the wall,

00:26:35   I think, that the Mac, in general, was becoming less and less PC-like, uh, in, in particular

00:26:43   because of what Apple Silicon was doing, right?

00:26:47   Like, oh, all this is integrated, you're not gonna break these things out anymore, um, but

00:26:53   really over the, I guess, 20 years the Mac Pro existed, like, all Apple did was whittle down

00:26:59   its customer base by making poor product decisions, like, the 2013 Mac Pro got rid of internal

00:27:05   expansion and was generally a bad computer, and then the 2019 came out and brought expansion

00:27:12   back, but then in 2022, when they put the M2 Ultra in it, expansion was gone again, at least

00:27:17   certain types of expansion, and I think the Pro market, for the most part, just got tired

00:27:23   of getting jerked around by Apple with the Mac Pro and moved on to other things, um, and it

00:27:28   is a bummer for, like, the handful of people that rely on those slots for audio capture

00:27:34   or big, fast storage or whatever it might be, um, but that market was getting smaller and

00:27:39   smaller, and it's no surprise that it's gone, it's no surprise that the Mac Studio is the

00:27:43   way forward, but it is, uh, it's a weird time, because it's really, I mean, the Mac Pro is

00:27:49   20 years old, but it was the successor to all the towers that Apple ever made, but computing

00:27:55   computing is just not there anymore, right? Computing is, is powerful laptops now, and

00:27:59   it's, uh, it's wild. It's gone.

00:28:03   You said you, you, you, you're thinking that maybe the, the, a lot of the Pro customers

00:28:08   got tired of being jerked around. Yeah.

00:28:10   I understand that sentiment, but I think that there is a lot of Pro customers that just moved

00:28:14   to a machine that was better suited to them. Like, people had the Mac Pro because it was

00:28:19   the most powerful computer, so it didn't wear the most powerful computer. But then, like,

00:28:23   laptops became more powerful.

00:28:25   For sure.

00:28:25   And, like, it's, it's realistically a better form factor.

00:28:29   Yeah, it's all these things combined that, that led to its death, right? When,

00:28:32   even when the Mac Pro came out in 06, the, or 07, whenever it was, the, um, uh, you know,

00:28:43   it was the last machine to go Intel, and it was, even then, like, noticeably faster and more

00:28:49   powerful than the MacBook Pro with the Core 2 Duo in it. But over time, notebooks caught up,

00:28:55   and in the Apple Silicon era, like, most people don't need an Ultra, and if you do,

00:29:01   you can get it in a studio. But if you need, like, the Macs or the Pro version of the chip,

00:29:06   there's lots of options, and they all basically have the same level of performance.

00:29:11   And so, yeah, it got, it got whittled away in, like, lots of ways. The marketing, the market

00:29:16   aspect of it, the power aspect of it, the cost, right? Uh, notebooks used to be really expensive,

00:29:21   expensive, and now you can get a very performant notebook for less and less money over time.

00:29:25   And, um, all these things, like, all these things are guilty in the Mac Pro's death.

00:29:31   Well, and then better expansion, right? Thunderbolt, I think, made it possible

00:29:38   that you didn't need to put cards inside of a computer anymore for all the cases. Now,

00:29:45   I know I'm not speaking for everyone, but I think, I think there are a lot of people,

00:29:49   including you, who, and including John Syracuse, who own Mac Pro's because they were the biggest

00:29:55   and the beefiest and gave them the most options. Yeah.

00:29:58   And I think that over time, all of that stuff has made its way into different formats, and it just

00:30:06   ends up of, like, oh, you just want a Mac Pro because you want one. Like, the Mac Studio is more

00:30:11   powerful, right? And you can just basically everything, a regular person, and even a regular Mac Pro

00:30:18   customer would want. Thunderbolt will more than suffice. For sure. Um, now it's,

00:30:23   you have more options with Thunderbolt than you did with the expansion cards.

00:30:27   You do. It is up to now, like, as it was in, in 13, it is up to these third-party companies to,

00:30:36   like, okay, if you've built an audio card and you've only made an internal version of it,

00:30:40   now we either need to find, like, a really good Thunderbolt, you know, PCI card expansion dock,

00:30:47   and there are some out there, um, or the whole device is going to move to Thunderbolt. Like,

00:30:52   the market will have to respond to this, um, just as they did in 13, um, or didn't do in 13.

00:30:59   And, uh, it'll be, it'll be fascinating to see that. But yeah, those use cases have become more

00:31:04   and more niche over the years. And, you know, if you're OWC or, you know, I don't know, Belkin or

00:31:13   Av, you know, one of these companies, like, are you really going to take the time and, like,

00:31:17   really make a nice Thunderbolt enclosure for people to put cards in? Like, maybe, but the use case for

00:31:22   that was already so small. Um, but you're right. Like, it used to be, like, I'm thinking about,

00:31:28   like, uh, my wife's uncle, uh, did like professional audio engineering for decades. Um, and he, in his

00:31:36   studio had a Mac Pro, I think it was the 2012, was the last one before the trash can. I remember that

00:31:42   because we bought it for him. Like, you know, we, we specced it after the trash can was announced and

00:31:49   you could still get your hands on a 2012 and like, okay, no, no, I want the one with the cards. And he

00:31:55   had lots of stuff in there. Right. Um, a lot of it was like hardware that was, he had to have for

00:32:01   certain plugins and that sort of thing. But even then in 2012, those needs were getting smaller

00:32:08   and he's, he's now retired and out of that business. But, um, you know, it's just, those needs have

00:32:17   gotten less over time. And so, cause I think the, the reception and reaction to the announcement of,

00:32:24   and then the subsequent life of the trash can Mac Pro was very negative, right? People were very upset

00:32:31   about that computer. And I would say that the death of the Apple Silicon Mac Pro is a joke, right?

00:32:39   Yeah. Like, and I think that that tells the difference of people's needs over time. Like

00:32:45   that by and large, the sentiment to the Mac Pro now being gone is it's like a, like a curiosity or it's

00:32:54   like, we make fun of the person who has one, mostly John Syracuse, right? Like what's John

00:32:59   going to do? Um, any, they had a good conversation about an ATP, which was nowhere near as long as I

00:33:05   thought it was going to be. I know. Yeah. Um, I was actually quite disappointed. I wanted more. Um,

00:33:10   yeah, but I don't think that, but I think that that is like emblematic of there just isn't that much

00:33:14   to say about it anymore. Like John had already made his decision about what he was going to do

00:33:18   because everybody knew this was going to happen because it's just a computer that doesn't,

00:33:24   it doesn't have a place now in a way that we all know Apple would or would not make it. Like

00:33:30   it just doesn't exist. People can build their own PCs and it makes a lot of sense for the way that

00:33:36   will work. No one's expecting Apple to produce a product like the heyday of the Mac Pro again,

00:33:42   because mostly they don't need to because the rest of what they can do with Apple Silicon is like

00:33:47   more than enough for like 99% of their customers, probably more than that. Yeah. I mean, it was more

00:33:53   than I needed in, you know, 19 and 20. Part of it was I'd always, I'd always aspire to one,

00:34:00   right? Not necessarily the trash can, although the trash can a little bit in the beginning.

00:34:04   Trash can was so cool. It was just really annoying.

00:34:07   Bad computer. Um, I'd always aspire to one and I was in a position where I could do it and it was a

00:34:15   good fit. I mean, it was overkill, but like it, it worked with what I was doing. And so I was able to,

00:34:20   to do it. I enjoyed that time. It was incredibly expensive. Uh, and I definitely lost money on it,

00:34:26   but it was, it was something special for me to have in that time. And the, you know, I was never

00:34:36   interested in the Apple Silicon version, like time. I just moved, moved past it.

00:34:40   Well, that product just was less interesting, right? Yeah. Like we put in the show notes,

00:34:46   your like kind of running log that you had for the Mac Pro. Most of the stuff that you did here,

00:34:52   you just wouldn't do to that one. Cause it just didn't make any sense. No, it wasn't. It wasn't

00:34:58   as expandable. And so it just, it just wasn't as fun anymore. Yeah. I look forward to buying one

00:35:05   though. And 15 years from the dirt cheap. You put a question in our document here that I just,

00:35:11   you didn't mention. I just wanted to talk about where, you know, like the, the, the trash can Mac Pro

00:35:16   was a product that then resulted in the Mac round table, which we first then learned about

00:35:24   the iMac Pro and Apple's commitment to making an expandable Mac Pro again. And you asked the

00:35:30   question, was this a mistake? Like having the Mac round table, what, what is your thinking for that

00:35:37   question? Uh, my thinking is at the time it wasn't, um, because there was a lot of pushback

00:35:45   and clearly Apple felt like they needed to do what would become the 19 Mac Pro to meet,

00:35:52   to meet that feedback. Um, and of course the iMac Pro was like the alternative future and the iMac

00:35:57   Pro was a great machine. Again, you and I both, did you have an iMac Pro? You did, didn't you?

00:36:01   Yeah, I did. Yeah.

00:36:02   I did. Jason did like it, it was incredible. The iMac Pro was so good. Um, but clearly they felt like

00:36:09   there was a need to, to have something more expandable. I think, I think the, if there is a

00:36:16   mistake in that, I think it's that the Mac Pro didn't come out until 19. Like if they had, if they

00:36:22   had the Mac Pro ready to go at the round table, which was in 17, I think maybe that would have been

00:36:27   different. Yeah. April, 2017. Um, maybe that would have been different, but the, the hard part is it was

00:36:35   released and Apple Silicon was so close to it. Yeah. It was an apology. It was the, the 2019 Mac

00:36:43   Pro was an apology. So like, I, I don't think it was a mistake. I don't even think it was a mistake

00:36:47   knowing everything we know now. Like the, the Mac round table was supposed to make us all happy again.

00:36:52   And it did that. And so, and then Apple was like, Hey, you know what guys, we've got this now too.

00:36:57   And we're like Apple Silicon. Yeah. And then we all forget about the Mac Pro. So it's way better.

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00:39:06   Well, okay. So guys, you know me, I'm a man of my word, right? Um, I say things and I do things.

00:39:11   That's my...

00:39:12   That, yeah. I often, that's how I describe it to people, people. You know, Federico says things.

00:39:18   My ethos, so to speak. I say things and I do those things and then I say more things and I do more.

00:39:23   Uh, I told you I was interested in trying a shorter phone and I've been using the iPhone 17 Pro for the

00:39:30   past week. Uh, that's, you know, jumping right into it. Okay. Okay. So from the air to the pro.

00:39:36   From the air to the pro. And I have thoughts. Um, so get ready gang. It's time for an iPhone 17 Pro

00:39:43   review. Here we go. Well, find you a blogger who's actually spent six months with the iPhone air and now

00:39:50   it's going to spend six months with the iPhone 17 Pro. Um, so, um, first of who? Me. You're not a blogger.

00:39:58   I have a blog. How dare you? You have a blog. You're not a blogger. That's different.

00:40:03   Whoa. Wow. Okay. Carry on with your story. Um, also you're a writer occasionally. Sure. Sure. Sure. Um,

00:40:16   anyway, so first thought it is more comfortable. It is nicer to have a slightly shorter phone. Like

00:40:23   my thumb is pretty happy about that. Um, so being able to, to swipe for notification and control center

00:40:30   is nice. Um, the first shock was obviously the thickness and the weight that there's no way around

00:40:38   it. Uh, it kind of sucks whenever I pick it up or I feel it in my pocket. Like when I, when I was dual

00:40:46   carrying the iPhone air and the Z Fold 7, both in my pocket, I could instantly tell without looking in

00:40:53   my pocket, which one was the iPhone air. Right. Uh, now, uh, occasionally I pull out the wrong phone

00:41:00   because this thing is thicker and it's not immediately recognizable to the touch that I'm

00:41:07   picking up a thinner phone. Right. Compared to my Z Fold 7. Um, so, uh, and it's heavy. So like

00:41:15   when I'm reading in bed at night, using read wise reader or watching some YouTube videos, like my wrist

00:41:22   fills it after a while, especially if you're using it one handed, like the iPhone air, how thin it is,

00:41:29   how light it is continues to be just a champion of a, of a device. Um, I have been surprised not in a

00:41:40   great way by the battery. I was expecting more. I, and maybe, maybe what I was expecting was the iPhone

00:41:51   17 Pro Max, but I was expecting to see a noticeable improvement compared to coming from the iPhone

00:41:58   air. And I didn't see that noticeable improvement. I still, if I really start using my phone in the

00:42:06   morning, like I wake up, I have breakfast and then I start doing things like email, catching up on social

00:42:10   media, RSS on my phone. This phone does not last me until late evening. Like I need to top it off at

00:42:17   some point. Like I need to put it on my MagSafe charger on the desk. I thought that I could avoid

00:42:22   that with the 17 Pro and that's not the case. Also, I have a theory that these phones on iOS 26 are too

00:42:30   power hungry. Like I find it so strange that an iPhone 17 Pro, which has a bigger battery than an

00:42:38   iPhone air, not as big as a 17 Pro Max, but I find it quite strange that it doesn't last me through the

00:42:44   whole day. And I hope that if the rumors are true that Apple is working on, you know, improving the

00:42:51   performance of 27, I really hope that we do see a jump in, in battery life over the course of a,

00:42:58   of a single day. I am using the same settings, adaptive power, all of those things. I was expecting a bit

00:43:04   more, uh, because everybody was saying, ah, the iPhone air, the battery is terrible. It is kind of terrible.

00:43:09   And I was expecting to go to the 17 Pro and be like, ah, the battery is great now. And I, and I

00:43:16   didn't have that reaction yet. So, and I thought, oh, maybe the first few days it's optimizing, it's

00:43:22   indexing things. No, hasn't changed. I still need to charge it up a little bit in the afternoon if I want

00:43:29   to not charge it in the evening, which is convenient because I'm on the couch. I don't want to have a

00:43:34   battery. I don't want to have a power cable on the couch and all those things. Yeah. My, my phone only

00:43:38   gets to like, stays to like 50% on day, like at the end of the day in days where I know I'm not using

00:43:44   it. You know what I mean? Like if I'm using my phone, then I will have to top it up at some point in the

00:43:49   day or I'll get to the end of the day and it's like, we're in the red now. Yeah. Yeah. So I was expecting

00:43:55   a bit more and, and, but, but looking at, you know, Sylvia as a 17 Pro Max, I think that's, uh, that's the, the

00:44:04   ideal battery for me, I guess, but I don't want to use a phone that big right now. Yeah. I think if

00:44:09   you're, you're right. Like if you're looking, if battery is what you care about the most, you always

00:44:13   have to just get the best one. Yeah. In the end, I, I cared more about the size right now. So, um,

00:44:20   obviously the thing that I love the most is the camera and, uh, coming from the iPhone air, the, the

00:44:34   telephoto pictures that I've taken of my dogs in the past 10 days or so, I don't want to say that

00:44:42   they make up for the past six months, but I've been having so much fun and I complained about

00:44:48   photo quality on iPhones. And I really spent some time researching this. I, you know, I, you know,

00:44:55   pulled up my body clod and perplexity over the past week and be like, Hey, help me figure out how can I

00:45:01   make iPhone photos as vibrant as the ones that I take on my Samsung by default? Like, I don't believe

00:45:08   that I cannot achieve the photo quality that I want on an iPhone. And sure enough, I switched to

00:45:15   the new bright photographic style with some tweaks and I really like it. That's sort of what you're

00:45:23   saying is photographic styles are good. If you have an LLM, no, I am saying that I have found the one

00:45:33   photographic style that doesn't suck, which is different from being good. Yeah. Wow. Okay. You're

00:45:38   really, I also know, I also know words in the English language. So I know how to describe things in

00:45:44   addition to saying things and doing things. I know how to describe things. Um, so, uh, bright doesn't

00:45:51   suck. And, uh, with some adjustments, I gotta, I gotta say, I I'm looking at the photos from the past

00:45:57   last week and I like them and yeah, having the telephoto and the, the zoom, the zoom level is

00:46:04   intense. Like when you go to the eight X, like you guys should have told me, you know, I mean,

00:46:13   I guess you did tell me I wasn't ready to listen. Um, but yeah, the eight X thing is wild. And I really

00:46:20   like the preview on the, on the, on the, in the viewfinder that you see the preview of the, the

00:46:25   picture, the whole picture where you're actually zooming in the upper right corner, really nicely

00:46:30   done. And, um, what else I've been using this with my MCON controller, really nice combo. I got it in

00:46:39   silver because I'm a boring tech guy. And I feel like I, you know, it was matching my silver and white

00:46:48   Apple accessory aesthetic. And, um, the plan right now is to use this phone instead of the air for the

00:46:56   next six months and, uh, try and find whatever balance I want to find before the iPhone fold.

00:47:04   And by that time I will be selling my iPhone air, I will be selling the 17 pro and I will just finally

00:47:11   get a folding phone from Apple. Hmm. I mean, I've done the same thing, right? I started with the air

00:47:17   and ended up on the pro and for all the same reasons. Uh, I also have found the battery life

00:47:22   surprisingly lacking at times. Um, but yeah, the camera is such a big improvement. And I was even

00:47:31   thinking about this in terms of like the regular 17, cause that's a spectacular phone. Um, but I would

00:47:38   much rather have the telephoto than the wide angle. And so, uh, pushes me to the pro. Um, what about you,

00:47:45   Mike, do you have a, like, if you can only have two camera lenses, which one would you ditch ultra

00:47:50   wide or telephoto? I'll get rid of the ultra wide. Well, the problem is then you can't take phone

00:47:55   photos of things that are super close to you. Right. Yeah. Cause it uses that for the, um,

00:48:00   macro mode, which is still not as good quality as I would want. I just don't think that's ever going

00:48:05   to be something I'm ever going to get. Cause I think every time they make the regular camera better,

00:48:09   the ultra wide will be behind. Um, but like for, for what I tend to choose to use, I would want the

00:48:18   telephoto and the regular.

00:48:20   Happy birthday, Apple. Everybody excited. Okay. Can I go first and just say something?

00:48:28   Please, please go first. No, no, honestly, no. Like I, I don't like, um, not big on birthdays and

00:48:38   anniversaries myself. I especially don't like the looking back. Uh, that's just me. We haven't done

00:48:46   really anything on Mac stories for Apple at 50. I appreciate and respect everyone who did. I just

00:48:51   find personally, um, the content, uh, to introspective to sort of a, like a celebratory and not really

00:49:01   useful. Like, uh, and I understand why otherwise other people are really into this. Uh, not really

00:49:08   for me. I, uh, especially dislike corporate anniversaries. And then again, that's just me.

00:49:16   So, uh, but I mean, I am going to read the David Pogue book. So there's that. Like I do appreciate

00:49:24   a book about Apple history, but just doing multiple things to celebrate it. Not for me.

00:49:31   I did enjoy the episode of upgrade. So I enjoy other people doing it. I just don't like doing it myself

00:49:40   on the opposite side of the spectrum. I've loved this past week. Uh, and, and I, I still

00:49:46   have a bunch of stuff that I want to go through. Like I've, I'm only about a third of the way

00:49:50   through all of the Verge articles. The Verge has done such an incredible job, like in, in a way

00:49:55   that I was surprised about, um, like just how much stuff they've done, including their ranking

00:50:01   of the 50 best Apple products, which I'm, uh, I think it's done now. Actually, I just looked

00:50:06   at it right now. Yeah. What's number one, the Mac? Uh, the original iPhone.

00:50:10   Oh yes, I agree. Okay. So number two is the M one chip, which isn't interesting.

00:50:16   There's some ageism I think going on in that, in that poll. Number three is the original Mac

00:50:22   Intosh. Oh, come on. Yeah. But I mean, number one, that's going to be no, no, the iPhone has

00:50:26   to be number one, Steven. Yeah. The iPhone has to be. I'm not arguing with that. I'm just

00:50:29   like, you go further down. I don't know. I have some problems with, uh, also some of the

00:50:33   choices. Like why is the Intel Mac mini in there? I don't tell you what we should, you

00:50:37   know what we should have done. Done our own. But, but we didn't, no, no, no. We don't

00:50:41   have time today. What we should have done was a tier list of all the Apple at 50 anniversary

00:50:47   celebrations across different websites. Wow. I would, I would S tier the verge. I think

00:50:54   the verge have done the best job of anyone. Yeah. Cause Jason did a lot of it. I mean,

00:50:58   Jason, Jason did a lot of it for sure. So maybe actually it's just Jason. If anything,

00:51:02   if anything, I would have S tiered Jason Snell. Yeah. Well, I didn't want to do that. Cause

00:51:06   I'm part of it, but like, yeah, Jason is, he is S tiered and the verge of S tiered because

00:51:11   Jason's obviously done a lot of stuff in other places as well. Um, including, uh, reviewing

00:51:17   David Pote's book for the Wall Street Channel, which is just very funny. Wild. Uh, but I,

00:51:22   no, I've really enjoyed this stuff. Um, and I'm, I think, well, I've enjoyed it so much

00:51:28   that like, we're, we, we're doing like a whole month of stuff on upgrade. Like we have other

00:51:32   episode things that we want to do. Um, different, different upgrading things that we want to do

00:51:38   over the month. Uh, cause I, I, I've liked it. I mean, you know, I think it was a couple of

00:51:43   weeks ago. I was, I was begging the internet to try and have fun, uh, this week. And I think

00:51:47   people have, and, and I'm, I'm really pleased about that. And I'm also pleased about how Apple

00:51:53   have treated it by and large. There's, there's a really, I would say a somewhat interesting

00:51:57   video. And I don't say this because it's, you know, it's Tim Cook at the end of the day,

00:52:00   right? On the Wall Street Journal where they're showing off some prototypes of devices, which

00:52:05   is real, like, it's just like fun to see. Like, and also just Tim to say like, he didn't even

00:52:11   know that stuff existed, which is also funny to me. It's like, they've, they've been pretty

00:52:17   open, um, as much as they can be. And that they are celebrating it, which is good because

00:52:23   I think it's what, I think it's something worth celebrating. I don't want them to celebrate

00:52:27   their 60th, right? In the same way. And I wouldn't have cared about them celebrating their 40th

00:52:32   either, but 50 feels like a good number to celebrate. And I've had a good time with it.

00:52:36   And yeah, Federica, thank you for mentioning it. I just want to say, I'm so proud of the episode of

00:52:40   Upgrade that we put out last week. It's great. Uh, this week. And, uh, I really hope that people

00:52:45   check it out because it was something that we, we really loved putting together.

00:52:48   I've also enjoyed it probably unsurprisingly. Um, I did find it difficult to like decide on,

00:52:55   on what to do. Um, and I have not, I've enjoyed the writing. I have skipped some of the podcast

00:53:02   was like, I think cause I know this stuff so well, like people just getting things wrong

00:53:07   or very blatantly just like retelling stories out of the poke book kind of, kind of bugs me,

00:53:12   but you sub podcasting me right now. No, not you. Okay. Just checking.

00:53:17   Okay.

00:53:18   I found it a little tricky to sort of like figure out what to do with it, but, um,

00:53:21   I think it's been a, I think it's been a fun time.

00:53:23   So you wrote a really nice kind of like, I don't know what you call these kinds of

00:53:29   articles where they're split into like three things.

00:53:31   Yeah.

00:53:32   You know, like I figure there's probably a name for this format, right? Where you're like,

00:53:36   it's like three many things in one thing.

00:53:39   Mm-hmm. These are not three blog posts.

00:53:41   There's one blog post. Uh, and do you, I just wanted to read something. You said the eight,

00:53:47   the 18 pro just beneath the keyboard of the Mac book Neo I'm typing on. So it was just like,

00:53:52   so you're writing on the downstairs computer now.

00:53:54   I wrote that on the downstairs computer.

00:53:57   Look, I'm just going to say a thing. You just, just be honest with me. Are you trying to turn

00:54:02   this into a minimal writing environment?

00:54:04   I don't want to talk about that.

00:54:05   Oh my God. He is.

00:54:07   That Rico, he's doing it. He's trying to make a minimal writing environment.

00:54:10   Oh, it's like the white whale of bloggers, real bloggers.

00:54:15   It is.

00:54:15   It's minimal writing environments.

00:54:17   It is. No, I wrote it. I've shared this before. I feel like I am the most, like I do my best writing,

00:54:28   like in the evenings, which is incompatible with the rest of my life. Uh, so I did write this

00:54:33   downstairs so I could be downstairs like around as after the kids went to bed. Um, so I did write

00:54:41   it on the, on the Neo, but yeah, I just, I was just thinking, I was like, I don't like, I figured

00:54:46   a lot of people are going to do like what the verge did, right? Like hit the highlights. I thought

00:54:51   Jason's thing about how the Apple two was like so important for song was really good and really

00:54:54   insightful, but I just didn't know like where I would fit in with that. And so I decided, uh, and

00:55:01   like in all of this, like, yes, I'm glad it was celebrated, but also like, it's okay that things are

00:55:06   really complicated right now. And, um, that it can be hard to feel all good or all bad about anything

00:55:13   anymore. And so I also wanted to address that, but also like why it's important to me. So that's

00:55:19   how that piece kind of came together. I am very happy with how it came out, but it took me a long

00:55:23   time to kind of figure out what it was going to be. I don't know. Like, um, you, it was

00:55:29   really good. I liked it. I just, I was expecting more from the Apple history guy. Like I thought

00:55:33   you were going to do more things, you know? Good job, Steven.

00:55:37   He's happy. Federico doesn't want more things to read. I just, I just wondered, did you not

00:55:44   like, you know, like you've got your screenshot libraries and stuff, right? Like you have been

00:55:49   known to, to go way too hard on certain projects.

00:55:53   Was it just eluding you this one or you just didn't want to do anything bigger?

00:55:58   I think it was mostly eluding me that I just didn't know what, um, because 50 years is a

00:56:06   really long time. I've covered a lot. I mean, I've covered all the highlights of all like the

00:56:10   products, right? I mean, even to perform a month. And so it felt weird to like retrod product

00:56:18   stuff. I did think, I was like, well, I picked like my favorite 50 things. We're like, that's

00:56:22   going to be, uh, uh, a article type that lots of people do. Um, and so I was like, you know,

00:56:29   let's just, just like write how I feel about it. And so that, that's where I landed. Okay.

00:56:33   But I'm, I'm happy with it.

00:56:35   Happy birthday, Apple. Can't believe Tim Cook is turning 50. Is that how it works? You know?

00:56:42   Well, I think that does it, uh, for this week. Happy anniversary to the end of this episode.

00:56:48   Really? Think about it.

00:56:50   Happy anniversary to us, you know?

00:56:51   It is. I mean, you did say at the beginning of the show that 600 was coming up and it was

00:56:55   going to be a big one, which we have not talked about.

00:56:59   Yeah. Because we're going to do new content. Not because we're going to do like a clip show

00:57:03   of the best moments of 600 episodes of connected. Okay. Yeah. Good. Who, who likes a clip show?

00:57:09   No one. Okay. Thank you. If, uh, if you like fresh content though, like we did this week,

00:57:16   like we do every week, uh, you can leave us some feedback about it. Connectedfeedback.com.

00:57:21   There's also a link in the show notes. If you really like content that we make here and you want

00:57:27   more of it with fewer, actually no ads at all, and also access to a bunch of cool stuff from Relay,

00:57:33   uh, join getconnectedpro.co seven bucks a month. You get longer ad free episodes each week,

00:57:41   discord access, some cool wallpapers, members only podcasts, including one that, that, that Mike and

00:57:47   I do each month. Uh, it's awesome. It's the best deal going. So go check that out. You can also find

00:57:52   all of us online. You can find Prince Flexi Federico at max stories.net where he's the editor

00:57:58   in chief. You can find Mike across a bunch of shows here at Relay and his, um, so-called blog at the,

00:58:05   the enthusiast.net. Not my words, Federico's words. Really? No, no. I said it's a blog.

00:58:10   He's not a blogger. That's what you said. I, Mike is not a blogger primarily. He's a writer,

00:58:18   writer. A blogger is like, you know, there's the daily grind. Yeah. Whereas the enthusiast is more

00:58:24   of a, I don't know how to describe it, but you know what I mean. It's a, it's a, I don't know what

00:58:31   you mean. I don't know what you mean. I need you to explain it more. So I feel like you're not under

00:58:40   any obligation to at least have a number of articles out on the enthusiast every week.

00:58:47   Is max stories? Well, we try to, right? Especially when you have sponsors and you got to keep the,

00:58:55   you got to keep the machine running. That's what I mean. Like you have a place to write,

00:59:01   but you're not, and it's a blog, but do you consider yourself a blogger when you introduce yourself to

00:59:06   people? Do you say I'm a blogger? I mean, who could, who's anything, you know?

00:59:10   That's a good question. Yeah. Really the, I'm just looking through the enthusiast.

00:59:16   Really. It's kind of like a clip show for Mike's life.

00:59:19   That's not, that's not inaccurate. Yeah. So make that your tagline.

00:59:28   Show, you know, I'm the eternal, I'm the eternal, I'm the attorney general flexy. Someone did write

00:59:38   in saying that I seem uncomfortable with my title. I do. And so I love it. That makes me really,

00:59:43   really happy. He doesn't like saying it. At least I'm not secretary of deflects right now. That's,

00:59:49   you know, or, or flexy of war flex, which I guess secretary of war flex. Anyways, you can find my

00:59:57   writing because I am a blogger at 512pixels.net. And you consider yourself a blogger? Yes.

01:00:02   My, we've talked about this. My conception of myself is that I'm a writer, that I happen to do

01:00:10   other things that pay the bills because writing certainly doesn't pay the bills, but right.

01:00:14   Yeah. Blogger, you know, if I was writing a Twitter bio in 2010, right? Okay. Well,

01:00:20   what's your Mastodon bio? Let me see. It's probably a joke.

01:00:23   How do you find Mastodon? You know what I mean? Oh yeah. It's a, it's a federated. It's really

01:00:30   everywhere. You, you consider yourself an iPod sock and power PC enthusiast, apparently. So

01:00:39   yes. You don't even, you don't even consider yourself a blogger. But it would be like father,

01:00:43   husband, blogger, podcaster, project manager. Whoa. So you consider yourself a, what was it? Father

01:00:54   first? I'm writing these down. I'm going to, I'm going to change it everywhere. Uh, so what'd I say?

01:01:00   The great thing is you will change it to this and like, husband, that seems funny to you right now,

01:01:05   but like people are going to see that and they're going to, it's going to think you're one of those

01:01:08   people, you know, but like, that's how they describe themselves. It's this collection of words.

01:01:14   Father, husband, lover, what'd I say? Blogger, podcaster, project manager, project manager,

01:01:23   man. Yeah. Really, really, really like making it sexy at the end there, you know? I know. Hey,

01:01:29   look, every little kid needs a project. People are excited about space right now, which they should

01:01:35   be, but like kids want to be project managers, not astronauts. Do we have a few minutes to talk

01:01:39   about space? We can do it after. I thank our sponsors. Okay. Century and Square Space.

01:01:45   Thank you for listening. Till next week. Say goodbye.

01:01:49   Adios. Cheerio. Bye y'all.