598: 8TB of Space in a Trash Can
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Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 598. I am your annual chairman, Stephen Hackett.
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We're sponsored this week by FitBod, Mercury Weather, and Steam Clock, and I'm joined by
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my friend Mike.
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I love Federico today. He is at a comic book convention, so look out for that, I guess.
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Yeah. Do you think he's LARPing?
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You know, I've never considered it, but it's possible. The funny thing to me, so this comic
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book convention is called Romics, which I just think is hilarious.
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Wow. Well, OPSEC, man. He's telling people where he is.
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Well, I'm saying all of this because you're clearly showing that you're not a listener of
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No one expected it, but on an episode of NPC that I listened to last night, it was the moment
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Federico realized that he was doing this when they said, see you next week, and he was like,
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oh, hang on a minute. I won't be here. I'm going to Romics. So he said it all in public,
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so I feel like I can now say it. And I just think that a Rome comic book convention called
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Romics is really funny.
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How is it spelled?
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I guess it's R-O-M-I-C-S?
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I would assume.
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Romics 2026?
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Yeah. Romics.
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Rome Comics.
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It's the 36th edition.
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Well, if you want to go in the past and find Federico, that's where he'll be.
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Wow. There's a lot of stuff going on here on this website.
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Yes. It's not a joke. It's a serious thing, you know?
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Dude, there's a 30th anniversary Space Jam celebration at this.
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I want to go now.
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It runs for three more days.
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Do you think Federico went to the Space Jam bit? I bet he didn't.
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I can't. I don't know.
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I bet he's never seen it. I bet he's never seen it.
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We'll have to ask him next week.
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I'm going to text him right now, and I'm just going to say, have you ever seen Space Jam?
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See what he says. I'll report back if he responds.
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Real-time follow-up.
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In the meantime, we have regular follow-up.
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Jonathan wrote in about cheap Mac Pros.
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We spoke about this last time, about how you can get a trash can just for basically free on eBay now.
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So Jonathan wrote in, regarding the 2013 Mac Pro, I bought one in October, upgraded the RAM to 64 gigabytes, and upgraded to an 8-core CPU for next to nothing.
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I've got Sequoia running via OpenCore.
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OpenCore is a way to run unsupported Mac OS versions on older hardware.
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This machine is currently serving as my main computer, and is great for nearly everything I need, including 3D modeling and Fusion.
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It's dead silent, and as a benefit, I get to stare at a pretty cool-looking machine every day.
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It feels like a lot of work.
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It feels like your computer's a time bomb, because the GPUs were the problem in these computers, right?
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You know this better than anybody, right?
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All the freezing stuff.
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So like, I hope it goes well, Jonathan, but I worry about you.
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Yeah, and just something like, just the sentence, I've got Sequoia running via OpenCore.
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Like, that just makes me, that just makes me uncomfortable.
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The OpenCore Legacy Patcher.
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Legacy Patcher was my nickname in high school?
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I don't know what that means.
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Tell us about Dropbox and Backblaze.
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All right, so we've got a bunch of people wrote in with a bunch of different suggestions.
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All right, so Andy wrote in and says, about the Dropbox backup problem, hook up a large external
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drive to one of your Macs, use the Maestro app to download the whole Dropbox to a drive,
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and then have Backblaze make the backup.
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Backblaze won't even know that it's a Dropbox folder.
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So that's an interesting thought, right?
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Like, if I'm doing, if I copy my Dropbox to a disk, I could then back it up to Backblaze.
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The problem is, you said use the Maestro app.
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I'm not doing that.
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I'm just not doing that.
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So that's part one.
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Jonathan wrote in and said, plug in an external SSD, use R clone to sync your Dropbox overnight,
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add the drive to Backblaze.
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Are you going to do that?
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I don't like the sound of that.
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Charles says, can you hook up an external SSD to some stationary Mac, set Dropbox to download
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everything, and then maybe use a shortcut's action to sync that to a different path and
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back that up to via Backblaze.
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Some people also mentioned using Backblaze's B2 as a way to do this backup.
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So here's the situation as it stands for me right now.
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So Zoe's saying, I'm surprised how against Maestro you are.
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Here's the thing.
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I am not into anything that tries to get around Dropbox.
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That feels like a problem and an unreliable system, right?
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But like, I can't imagine Dropbox is like super thrilled about Maestro existing.
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I don't know that for sure, but that's my theory.
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Rob also wrote in and says, I have switched over to Arc Backup, which doesn't have any problem
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doing these backups.
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I chose their premium offering, but you could easily point Arc to your backup storage of choice.
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So, there's a lot of stuff going on here, and it's all kind of like, there's a lot of things
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kind of like floating around as potential solutions.
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Now, what I can't do is download my entire Dropbox to my Mac Mini, because my Mac Mini's
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SSD is not big enough.
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I don't want to have my entire Dropbox folder on an external drive that I'm working from.
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I'm not into that, because it would need to be a hard drive for the size.
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I would need at least four terabytes, right?
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So, what I am considering is some kind of large hard drive, which is making a copy of my Dropbox
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or downloading it somehow, and then using something like Arc to back it up to Backplace's B2 service,
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because it's actually quite fairly priced, so I'm looking at it today.
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But the problem is, how do I get Dropbox downloaded in a way that is good?
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So, maybe I do need to use either Maestro or ArcClone or whatever.
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Yeah, I don't think, I could be wrong, but I don't think ArcClone can pull stuff from
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The cloud files, I don't think.
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Something's going to have to download it.
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And I don't know what that is yet.
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Like, I have wondered what it might be like to have a Mac, like another Mac that's always
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on, and it's got this thing connected to it, and it's just doing stuff for me, basically
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But I don't know.
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I'm really stuck on this, because none of this is easy.
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Because, like, also, I don't want a spinning hard drive around where I currently am, my
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recording environment.
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I just don't want it.
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Because I don't know, I genuinely, at this point, I don't know how loud those things are
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I've not used a spinning disk in a really long time.
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Yeah, I mean, I've got, I guess, 11 spinning in my office between my NAS and my NVR.
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They can be loud.
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But you're right, the problem is actually getting the data over, because Dropbox now uses Apple's
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file provider, which means you can't tell the Dropbox application, put my Dropbox here.
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I mean, in the old days, you could do that, but Apple file provider API stuff requires it
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to be in the user library.
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And so that's why you have to use Maestral or something else to get those files elsewhere.
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Have you thought about an 8-terabyte Mac Studio, just for this purpose?
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You can get one as soon as October.
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I mean, we, I priced it and was like, oh, no, that's not good.
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Because what I think I need to do, so where I am right now is I am thinking I need a Mac
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plugged into some kind of NAS that has a couple of drives in it.
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Because I'm figuring if I'm doing this, I should go the whole way and have something set up in
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some kind of RAID configuration.
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Because if I'm going all in on backup, I may as well make it good.
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You know what I mean?
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What you have described is a Synology syncing to your Dropbox folder.
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Yes, but I, okay, so there is an episode of Analog that goes up this weekend,
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where I also enlisted Casey in this thing.
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So spoilers, Synology's not the move, and he suggested it.
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Yeah, no, he's anti-Synology now.
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Yeah, but I also, but like, he didn't really express anti-Synology, just in like, he's like,
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I know you, you don't want this.
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I mean, it's a whole computer, basically.
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I don't want that.
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I want a computer that I understand how to use.
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So that's why I keep falling back to a Mac.
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I don't know.
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I'm really struggling with this one.
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I just don't know how to do it properly for me.
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And like, I'm very hesitant, and I know we're going to get, people, Discord's already lighting
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up about Maestro, and people are going to write in about it.
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I just need you to understand, I do not want to add in a bunch of overhead into my life to
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learn something new.
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I just don't want to do that.
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I'm not into it.
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I'm not interested.
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Like, whatever this system is, if I end up doing anything, it has to be easy.
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I think I just come back to...
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I just don't know if you need everything in your life on Dropbox.
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I mean, that's how I was for a long time.
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That's why my MacBook Pro that I'm sitting in front of has a freaking eight terabyte SSD
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Because I lived that way for a long time, and I just got to a point where I don't need
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all that on Dropbox or locally.
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I can hit my NAS from anywhere.
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So like, if I'm in your home, I can get to my NAS on the internet and pull any files I
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Yeah, but...
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I mean, you're making a good point, but then we're still back to the same situation.
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Because if you say, I don't need everything on Dropbox, but then I need it to be on a NAS,
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then I'm still getting a NAS.
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So like, I understand where you're going, but we end up back in the same situation of
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like, the setup that I currently have is not enough.
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How big is your Dropbox?
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Do you know?
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We talked about this.
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At the moment, it's getting close to three terabytes.
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So you would basically have to buy an eight terabyte Mac to have it all locally on a Mac.
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Because a four terabyte Mac, you're going to hit that at some point.
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I will never get a Mac that can download all of this because the price will always be too
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Let's see what the cheapest eight terabyte Mac is.
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Probably the Mac Mini, right?
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It's horrible.
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It would be the Mac Mini.
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I've looked at it already.
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It's horrific.
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It's like two times the price of the Mac that I bought.
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It's horrible.
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Probably need the Pro Chip eight terabyte.
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Um, yeah, you need the M4 Pro.
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You can do the 12 core, though.
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24 gigs of RAM.
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That's the cheapest eight terabyte.
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One, you can get it in July.
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So congratulations.
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Yeah, this was another thing.
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Yeah, $3,800.
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Yeah, I'm not doing that.
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My NAS is way less money than that.
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That's more than I spent on the machine that I'm talking to you on right now, which is like
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the most powerful computer I've ever owned.
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You know, like my thought is get a $500 Mac Mini and attach some drives to it.
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I wonder if you can put eight terabytes of space in a trash can, Mac Pro.
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We've already been over why that's a bad idea.
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Look, you don't need the GPUs to sync files.
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You know, it's fine.
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This is a thing that needs to be solved that I don't feel like I need to solve quickly.
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But I do feel like it has highlighted to me an area of my life that needs some level of
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improvement.
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Clearly, it's now that...
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I mean, I would be the same way.
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Like, now that we know this, I would be uncomfortable with my data just in Dropbox.
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Because a sync service is not a backup, no matter what some other podcasters say.
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So, gotta do something.
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But I don't know what it is.
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And I look forward to what will be more follow-up.
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Because it is actually helping me.
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Like, people, we're getting there.
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Like, together, we're getting there.
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And I hope that people can hear what I'm saying of, like, this system for me has to
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be low maintenance.
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Like, it has to be.
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Because I need to not have to think about it.
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And learning something completely new, whether that be an entire operating system or a bunch
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of new apps, it's just like, it's just not gonna...
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It just doesn't work where I am right now.
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Like, I need this to be simple.
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And so, we'll see.
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I mean, I do feel like it's not SSD, that's for sure.
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Like, this is not an SSD system.
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There was a time where maybe that was a thing.
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That time is not right now.
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That has actually made it harder.
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Because if this was a...
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You know, if we were doing this a year ago, I would just buy a really big, like, SSD.
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Or a couple of SSDs and just, like, make it work.
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But I can't do that anymore.
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And I don't want to do that.
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So, now it opens up new problems and new solutions.
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I mean, big data is just a problem, right?
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You end up having to make weird decisions.
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This is why I used to delete everything.
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I mean, maybe.
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Do you know what doesn't have a lot of storage?
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That's a brilliant transition.
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The MacBook Neo.
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Oh, I have some real-time follow-up.
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This must have been really upsetting for Federico.
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I text him, have you ever seen Space Jam?
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And he said, what?
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That is a crazy coincidence.
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I love Space Jam.
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I was back at the convention.
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I took a picture of some guy cosplaying as Batman shooting hoops at the Space Jam exhibition.
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Because they're bringing the movie back to theaters in Italy.
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Are they doing that here?
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Why are they bringing the movie back?
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Space Jam back in theaters.
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Space Jam back to the future.
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That's not what I want, Google.
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Yeah, it looks like it's happening.
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That's like 10 years ago.
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Sorry, I can't read.
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That was the 20th anniversary.
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Why are they bringing them in July?
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Apparently, it's coming back.
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Maybe they're just big fans.
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Oh, it's the 30th anniversary?
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I don't know if they just do it in Italy or what, but there you go.
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He loves it.
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You know what else he loves?
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The MacBook Neo.
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Finally made our way back to it.
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We've been talking, Federico and I have been talking a lot about people hacking the MacBook Neo.
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He did a thermal pad in his to make it dissipate heat better.
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Is that a thing people do?
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Does it work?
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Yes, it does.
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Have you done it?
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I have the parts or I have like the thermal pad.
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I haven't done it yet.
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I may do it.
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Anyways, lots of stuff going on here with the MacBook Neo.
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The other upgrade thing people are doing just to get it out of the way is DOSDude1, which
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is just an incredible YouTube channel, took a NAND flash part, a one terabyte NAND
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flash part from what would be in an iPhone and soldered it into the MacBook Neo and the MacBook
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Neo just accepted it.
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And I was like, I have a terabyte of storage now.
00:16:35
◼
►
That's horrific.
00:16:37
◼
►
The video is horrifying.
00:16:38
◼
►
At some point, he's just like putting a heat gun.
00:16:40
◼
►
Just like, I don't know.
00:16:41
◼
►
We've got to melt this stuff.
00:16:42
◼
►
Like, what are you doing?
00:16:42
◼
►
Anyways, the news is that these things are really popular and Apple may have a problem
00:16:50
◼
►
on its hands.
00:16:52
◼
►
I just actually, I put this on Mastodon yesterday.
00:16:55
◼
►
I went to Target and I was out running errands yesterday.
00:16:58
◼
►
Like, you walk into the Target in my neighborhood and there's a huge MacBook Neo sign.
00:17:03
◼
►
You know, like the Hello Neo thing.
00:17:05
◼
►
Like, when you walk into Target and they have them for sale.
00:17:09
◼
►
Can you usually buy Macs in Target?
00:17:10
◼
►
I don't think so.
00:17:12
◼
►
You've been able to do iPads and I think phones.
00:17:15
◼
►
Back in the day, you could definitely do iPods.
00:17:17
◼
►
I'm pretty sure it's the first Mac you've been able to buy in Target.
00:17:21
◼
►
So, it's not just the Walmart computer anymore then.
00:17:24
◼
►
We've moved up.
00:17:25
◼
►
We've moved up a level, you know.
00:17:26
◼
►
Depending on what you think about Target and Walmart.
00:17:29
◼
►
We can't get into that today.
00:17:30
◼
►
But, Tim Kulpman?
00:17:37
◼
►
Probably Kloopman.
00:17:39
◼
►
Well, it's definitely not Kloopman.
00:17:40
◼
►
It's not that.
00:17:41
◼
►
And it's not Kulpman.
00:17:42
◼
►
It's Kulpman.
00:17:43
◼
►
There's no M in there.
00:17:45
◼
►
Well, there's an M in Tim.
00:17:46
◼
►
I just moved it over.
00:17:48
◼
►
Yeah, I know.
00:17:49
◼
►
But, I don't think that's how they would have to transfer.
00:17:51
◼
►
It's just like they're just shifting.
00:17:53
◼
►
So, I wrote this article about the A18 Pro that's being used in the MacBook Neo.
00:18:04
◼
►
So, the Ben version of the iPhone 16 Pro chip, which ran really hot in the iPhone Pro.
00:18:10
◼
►
If you remember that, like, you know, the 16 Pro just ran hot.
00:18:14
◼
►
Kind of a weird process.
00:18:17
◼
►
That process isn't in use anymore at TSMC.
00:18:21
◼
►
It was kind of a one-off to make that happen.
00:18:23
◼
►
That, basically, those binned chips that Apple's been sitting aside for the MacBook Neo, that while it's super smart from Apple from an operational standpoint, right, these things would be recycled.
00:18:37
◼
►
Otherwise, you can put them in the MacBook Neo.
00:18:40
◼
►
As Ben Thompson wrote, they're effectively free chips because you already paid to make them.
00:18:46
◼
►
That Apple may be running into an issue where they don't have enough of those.
00:18:53
◼
►
And while Apple's planned trajectory was the next MacBook Neo would be powered by the current generation Bend A19 Pro chips that are in the current iPhone.
00:19:08
◼
►
Which makes sense, right?
00:19:09
◼
►
The Neo would be one behind, one generation behind, and use chips that didn't make it into those phones.
00:19:15
◼
►
Again, I think operationally, this is brilliant.
00:19:18
◼
►
But what happens...
00:19:22
◼
►
What happens if you have too many MacBook Neos to sell and not enough chips to put in them?
00:19:30
◼
►
Because these chips were all made, you know, a year ago, two years ago.
00:19:37
◼
►
And particularly with the A18 Pro, because that process that was built on at TSMC was unusual and is end of life, what do you do?
00:19:48
◼
►
Like, you can't reasonably make new, bad A18 Pros, because it's going to be really expensive.
00:19:56
◼
►
And the whole point of this was to use silicon that was effectively free.
00:20:01
◼
►
So what do you do?
00:20:05
◼
►
In some ways, like, I think it's incredible that this is a problem.
00:20:08
◼
►
Like, I love that the Neo seems to be popular enough that this could be an issue.
00:20:12
◼
►
But I wonder if Apple thought that, and I wonder, you know, what their plan would be if they get to the bottom of the barrel of those A18 Pros.
00:20:23
◼
►
And it seems like...
00:20:26
◼
►
There is a thing in here I don't fully understand, because I just don't know enough about chips, right?
00:20:31
◼
►
This is reading from colpm.com.
00:20:35
◼
►
The MacBook Neo's A18 Pro was built on TSMC's 3nm process.
00:20:42
◼
►
That node is now hugely popular and effectively sold out.
00:20:46
◼
►
Apple could, in theory, beg for a few hot lots paying a premium.
00:20:51
◼
►
So the process is still in use, but Apple's not using it.
00:20:56
◼
►
I think that's what this is saying.
00:20:57
◼
►
Yeah, the N3.
00:20:58
◼
►
So when I look at end of life, it was end of life for Apple.
00:21:02
◼
►
I think other people were using it.
00:21:05
◼
►
Okay, so there are now lots of people...
00:21:06
◼
►
Okay, now you've helped me understand that.
00:21:08
◼
►
I was getting a little bit lost in that.
00:21:09
◼
►
Yeah, Apple moved on from this, I think, pretty quickly.
00:21:13
◼
►
But it is very confusing.
00:21:14
◼
►
This is the one that they only did that one time, right?
00:21:16
◼
►
And then they had a different thing?
00:21:19
◼
►
It's very confusing, and it does highlight a bigger problem that Apple may be having,
00:21:26
◼
►
that TSMC is so busy building high dollar NVIDIA chips to power AI systems.
00:21:35
◼
►
Like, Apple doesn't have the...
00:21:39
◼
►
For a long time, Apple was the biggest player and, you know, the biggest company in the room
00:21:43
◼
►
when it came to production of silicon.
00:21:46
◼
►
And now that may not be true, and, like, that's...
00:21:49
◼
►
Or it's just different.
00:21:50
◼
►
It's just different.
00:21:50
◼
►
There are now other really big people.
00:21:53
◼
►
It's not that, like...
00:21:54
◼
►
I don't think NVIDIA...
00:21:55
◼
►
Like, because, well, if you're TSMC, right?
00:21:57
◼
►
Like, Apple's not going away.
00:22:01
◼
►
Like, so I feel like they probably still have a lot of sway.
00:22:04
◼
►
But the thing is, it's like what Tim Corbin is saying, they could probably get TSMC to make
00:22:14
◼
►
them more chips, but then it's going to be more expensive to do that, because they're going
00:22:19
◼
►
to have to pay you to jump the queue.
00:22:20
◼
►
Like, TSMC would probably let them, but they would charge them for the privilege.
00:22:27
◼
►
And on a $500 laptop, yeah, it's difficult.
00:22:30
◼
►
Like, and this is the issue.
00:22:32
◼
►
Every scenario Apple could run now, of which there are many different things they could
00:22:38
◼
►
do, all of it is going to eat their margin.
00:22:44
◼
►
Because even if...
00:22:45
◼
►
Because the other thing, which is really funny is, and this is also another margin thing,
00:22:50
◼
►
even if they were able to make more chips, they're not binned chips.
00:22:56
◼
►
They're going to have to disable a core.
00:22:59
◼
►
They're like, they'll be better chips.
00:23:03
◼
►
But then they have to disable a GPU core, so then these chips are of the same spec as the
00:23:08
◼
►
previous ones.
00:23:10
◼
►
I think that this is a fascinating thing that they have done.
00:23:14
◼
►
Like, a great idea.
00:23:17
◼
►
But what they didn't account for was, what if this product is very popular?
00:23:24
◼
►
Isn't that wild?
00:23:26
◼
►
And I feel like maybe, what they should do, they should have put the team that's in charge
00:23:32
◼
►
of the fourth iPhone slots forecasting into this.
00:23:35
◼
►
Because that team, they overshoot all the time.
00:23:39
◼
►
They need a bit of that forecasting for the Neo.
00:23:42
◼
►
Do you see the report that's like, Apple's making an iPhone Air 2, no matter how bad it
00:23:47
◼
►
Like, oh, okay.
00:23:47
◼
►
That was a very funny headline.
00:23:49
◼
►
I like that headline.
00:23:51
◼
►
And look, Apple...
00:23:54
◼
►
They're the best at this in the world.
00:23:56
◼
►
Certainly, they had lots of meetings about this.
00:24:00
◼
►
And even if they were caught by surprise by the demand of this computer, I think they've
00:24:05
◼
►
Surely they have some sort of plan.
00:24:07
◼
►
And I do think it's more evidence that the next one will move to the A19 Pro, which will
00:24:14
◼
►
give it 12 gigabytes of memory.
00:24:15
◼
►
And I think that'll be good.
00:24:18
◼
►
Although, in my usage of it, like, 8 gigabytes has been fine.
00:24:21
◼
►
Totally fine.
00:24:22
◼
►
Totally fine.
00:24:24
◼
►
Well, I could imagine that just they end up going for a slightly different process for
00:24:29
◼
►
I don't know how you would do this, but, like, maybe they do need to consider just making,
00:24:36
◼
►
like, not necessarily relying on just the binned chips.
00:24:41
◼
►
Because it looks like this product is going to be a long-term success now.
00:24:46
◼
►
And so maybe there is a slightly different thing they need to work out for how they can
00:24:52
◼
►
produce enough chips for this reliably.
00:24:55
◼
►
I don't know how you do it.
00:24:58
◼
►
But maybe it's just one of those things of, like, okay, as long as it's always kind of going
00:25:02
◼
►
along with the iPhone, you just end up with scale.
00:25:05
◼
►
You just, you bring the cost down due to scale.
00:25:09
◼
►
But maybe it can't just only rely on binned.
00:25:14
◼
►
But the fascinating thing to have happened to them, it's obviously not expected.
00:25:19
◼
►
It does feel like this computer is a much bigger hit than anybody would have assumed.
00:25:24
◼
►
And ultimately, it's because Apple have, one, made something cool, and two, marketed it cool.
00:25:32
◼
►
Like, they've done a very good job marketing this product, and it's made it actually a thing,
00:25:38
◼
►
not just an option.
00:25:39
◼
►
And I think that is really weird.
00:25:42
◼
►
It's fascinating.
00:25:43
◼
►
I think it's great.
00:25:45
◼
►
I think it's great.
00:25:46
◼
►
For those of you ripping apart your MacBook Neos, you can now get parts in the self-service
00:25:51
◼
►
repair program.
00:25:52
◼
►
So that's good news.
00:25:52
◼
►
It's good news.
00:25:53
◼
►
If you break something, you can order it up.
00:25:56
◼
►
I wonder if you can get keyboards.
00:26:00
◼
►
Like, you could maybe change your keyboard color or something.
00:26:03
◼
►
So if it's like the other things in the self-service repair store, when you put your serial number
00:26:10
◼
►
in, it restricts the options you can order to compatible parts, and Apple considers color
00:26:17
◼
►
a compatibility issue.
00:26:20
◼
►
But through the magic of buying two of them, you could swap parts around.
00:26:26
◼
►
So I think you should look to do that, too.
00:26:28
◼
►
I mean, I've got a citrus and an indigo.
00:26:29
◼
►
That'd be a horrible, horrible.
00:26:32
◼
►
Yeah, I'm not sure that one's going to work.
00:26:35
◼
►
I don't think that one's going to work.
00:26:37
◼
►
Interesting.
00:26:39
◼
►
I wanted to also mention an article from Antonio GD Benendetto on The Verge, where they've
00:26:51
◼
►
really been on the beat of, like, the Neo and the PC.
00:26:54
◼
►
And they asked for three companies to send the products that they think compete with
00:27:02
◼
►
And they got a product from Asus, Lenovo, and Acer.
00:27:06
◼
►
If you don't mind, I would like to read two paragraphs from this article, which is really
00:27:11
◼
►
Like, I recommend going to read this article.
00:27:13
◼
►
It's really good.
00:27:14
◼
►
But I think this gives a real interesting kind of, like, state of the industry now that
00:27:18
◼
►
the Neo's here.
00:27:19
◼
►
The flaws shown by all three of these Windows laptops, lackluster screens, crummy-sounding
00:27:25
◼
►
speakers, and middling trackpads, are almost impossible to avoid on laptops in this price
00:27:31
◼
►
But the game has changed.
00:27:32
◼
►
The MacBook Neo exists.
00:27:33
◼
►
And it smokes all of them in the quality-of-life territory.
00:27:37
◼
►
It's got a brighter, more colorful screen, a trackpad you can easily click anywhere, a sharp
00:27:42
◼
►
webcam that does your face some justice, and speakers that don't assault your ears.
00:27:46
◼
►
It even has a hinge you can open smoothly with one finger, the Windows laptops snap closed,
00:27:51
◼
►
or slide around if you try to do the same.
00:27:53
◼
►
I've heard murmurs that some PC laptop makers are aiming to release proper Neo competitors
00:27:59
◼
►
this year, but it's going to be difficult for any PC company to compete on price and hardware
00:28:04
◼
►
Apple manages it with the Neo thanks to its vertical integration, complete with its own operating
00:28:09
◼
►
system and in-house chip.
00:28:11
◼
►
PC makers have to figure out a way to stop cost-cutting the wrong corners, like screens,
00:28:16
◼
►
trackpads, and speakers.
00:28:17
◼
►
And they need to do that without raising prices.
00:28:20
◼
►
That's going to be hard, especially now.
00:28:23
◼
►
But if they can't, the Neo will be the easy answer again and again.
00:28:28
◼
►
I really like this.
00:28:29
◼
►
I liked the reviews.
00:28:30
◼
►
There's like many reviews of each of these computers.
00:28:32
◼
►
And I like that analysis at the end because it reminds me of the article that Joanna Stern
00:28:38
◼
►
wrote for The Verge for the Apple at 50 thing.
00:28:41
◼
►
Just saying that like, you know, when Joanna was the laptop reviewer at The Verge, basically
00:28:47
◼
►
the meme was every article was for $200 more, you can get a MacBook Air.
00:28:51
◼
►
But now it feels like for $200 less, you can get a MacBook Neo.
00:28:56
◼
►
Because like some of these products, they're all in the kind of $700 price range, but a couple
00:29:04
◼
►
of them were discounted.
00:29:05
◼
►
One of them was like a $1,000 laptop that you could now get for $700.
00:29:10
◼
►
So it's still not as cheap as the Neo.
00:29:12
◼
►
And yeah, so I thought that was interesting.
00:29:14
◼
►
Yeah, I mean, they're right.
00:29:17
◼
►
You know, Apple, that's always been Apple's game.
00:29:20
◼
►
But boy, they leaned into it this time.
00:29:23
◼
►
Yeah, it's always been their game.
00:29:25
◼
►
But that game didn't help them produce cheaper products.
00:29:27
◼
►
Yeah, it helped them make more margin on their products.
00:29:32
◼
►
But now they've kind of shot themselves in the foot a little bit, maybe.
00:29:38
◼
►
Yeah, but it does put PC makers in trouble.
00:29:42
◼
►
And it reminded me, Marquez had a video on his channel a couple of weeks ago, basically
00:29:49
◼
►
looking at this.
00:29:50
◼
►
But his point, and some other points other people I've seen make this point, is one way
00:29:55
◼
►
that PC manufacturers get cost down is bloatware, right?
00:30:00
◼
►
They make a deal with McAfee or Norton or, you know, whoever.
00:30:05
◼
►
That software gets loaded on the computer and it takes some money off of the price, right?
00:30:13
◼
►
And what that means is that in addition to your PC being less well-built and, you know, maybe
00:30:25
◼
►
not as nice of a screen, all these other things mentioned in that article, you also have to
00:30:29
◼
►
deal with Windows, which is at kind of an all-time low, I think, or at least a recent time low in terms
00:30:34
◼
►
of opinion, and it comes with a bunch of crap on it.
00:30:38
◼
►
And it's like, you compare that to the Neo that also works with your iPhone, right?
00:30:44
◼
►
Like, that's the thing that Apple's tapping into this in a lot of ways.
00:30:48
◼
►
It's like, you have your messages and your photos and your notes on your phone.
00:30:51
◼
►
What if they were all on your computer and that computer were yellow, right?
00:30:54
◼
►
It's the genius of this computer just continues to astound me that that Apple can attack all
00:31:01
◼
►
of this stuff in all these different ways.
00:31:03
◼
►
And if you're Lenovo or HP or whoever, and you're looking at this, it's like, it can't feel
00:31:10
◼
►
You know, it's like, how can you, how can you manage this?
00:31:14
◼
►
So that's rough.
00:31:15
◼
►
This episode of Connected is brought to you by FitBod.
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When you want to change your fitness level, it can be hard to know how to begin.
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So FitBod tracks all this.
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It also means you're never going to get bored because the app mixes up your workouts with new
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One great feature is that you can tell FitBod what equipment you have available to you.
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So I'm at home this week.
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I've got my little home gym in the garage, and FitBod knows exactly what I have down there.
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But next week, I'm traveling and probably not going to have access to a gym.
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And if I want to do a workout, I can tell FitBod, hey, this is going to be body weight only.
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Or maybe what the hotel has will be different than what I have.
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And you can input all that really easily.
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And of course, it integrates with everything I have.
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So it integrates with my Apple Watch and Apple Health.
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But if you have a Wear OS smartwatch or you use Strava or Fitbit or something like that,
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it also just works.
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So this can be expensive if you're going to do this through personalized training.
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This high-quality stuff is pricey.
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But FitBod is just $15.99 a month or $95.99 a year.
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◼
►
But you can get 25% off your membership by signing up at FitBod.me slash connected.
00:33:36
◼
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That's F-I-T-B-O-D, FitBod.me slash connected for 25% off your membership and your customized fitness plan.
00:33:46
◼
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Our thanks to FitBod for the support of our bodies, this show, and Relay.
00:33:51
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I was listening to Upgrade, as one does.
00:33:56
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And y'all were talking about y'all's origin stories with Apple.
00:34:01
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And I was like, hey, I want to do that.
00:34:03
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And then I remembered, I have a podcast.
00:34:06
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Yeah, you can do that.
00:34:07
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I can do that.
00:34:08
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And Federica's gone, so maybe he can do his next week.
00:34:12
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He'll be back space jamming.
00:34:15
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But I thought, I just want to talk about this a little bit.
00:34:19
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I've done it in various places over the years, but kind of like wanted it all in one place.
00:34:23
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What really jumped out at me in the Upgrade episode was y'all's comments around how you and Jason
00:34:33
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like crested the two big waves, right?
00:34:37
◼
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Jason, like in the Apple II era, like so many people Jason's age, like the Apple II is what
00:34:46
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is like what defined their youth and why they do what they do now.
00:34:52
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And then I'm the iPod.
00:34:53
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And you're the iPod.
00:34:55
◼
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And I actually am not in the middle middle, but I'm much closer to you than to Jason.
00:35:02
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But I am not either of those things, really.
00:35:06
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Because I'm only three years older than you.
00:35:11
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Is that right?
00:35:11
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Two years older than you?
00:35:12
◼
►
What year were you born?
00:35:17
◼
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Obviously, I'm much younger than Jason.
00:35:19
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Why are you doing this?
00:35:23
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Is this what you're lashing out because Federica does to you?
00:35:27
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Yeah, I guess so.
00:35:29
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You know, I've got those early stories.
00:35:33
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Like, I'm pretty sure my first grade classroom had an Apple II, but I'm not sure if that's
00:35:38
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an actual memory or one I've like retconned into my memory.
00:35:41
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Hard to say.
00:35:44
◼
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My first grade teacher was this little old lady named Mrs. Brown.
00:35:48
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Pretty sure we had Apple II in her classroom.
00:35:51
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But my elementary school had Macs for sure.
00:35:54
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But they were just like, there was one, not every classroom had one.
00:35:58
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And it was basically like some educational games.
00:36:02
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And they were all like beige, all-in-ones.
00:36:04
◼
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I mean, this was the, you know, the early to mid-90s.
00:36:09
◼
►
But it really clicked for me in 2001 in high school at the high school newspaper.
00:36:12
◼
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And that's where my story and Jason's story and actually Gruber's story are very similar.
00:36:17
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Where we were at our student newspapers.
00:36:20
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I was at high school and my college paper.
00:36:22
◼
►
I think both of them were just at their college paper.
00:36:24
◼
►
But that's where it clicked for me.
00:36:27
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It was like, oh, I can like use a Mac to make things that I want to make.
00:36:33
◼
►
And like that's still kind of my ethos when I think about the Mac today.
00:36:38
◼
►
For me, though, because I was a little earlier than you, it was like Mac OS 8.6 and Mac OS 9 on a bunch of beige Macs in 2001, right?
00:36:50
◼
►
2001 was the beginning of the OS X era that were colorful, you know, G3s.
00:36:56
◼
►
But we didn't have any of those because like the newspaper room kind of got like hand-me-down Macs from the classrooms.
00:37:00
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But eventually we got OS X on a bunch of colored iMac G3s.
00:37:06
◼
►
I remember distinctly setting the wallpaper to match the color of the iMac, right?
00:37:11
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►
It's like the lime one had a green wallpaper.
00:37:12
◼
►
Blueberry one had a blue one.
00:37:14
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No one cared but me, but I cared.
00:37:16
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►
It's important, though.
00:37:18
◼
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No one cares, but I care.
00:37:20
◼
►
And in that transition, we moved from back in the day, Mike, you're not going to believe this, but there used to be a thing called newspapers.
00:37:29
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And the way they were printed is you would do your design on the computer.
00:37:31
◼
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For me, it was Cork Express.
00:37:33
◼
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You would print it and then you would cut it out and you would paste it down on a board.
00:37:39
◼
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And that board would get photographed by the printer and they would print that.
00:37:44
◼
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No, they weren't actually photographing.
00:37:47
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They were at the end.
00:37:48
◼
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I mean, initially they were like reading them with some sort of crazy thing and making plates.
00:37:52
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►
But the end they had a good big...
00:37:54
◼
►
Did they scan it?
00:37:54
◼
►
Yeah, I mean, it was with a...
00:37:56
◼
►
At least the printer we used had a big camera, but...
00:38:00
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►
They didn't scan it?
00:38:01
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►
I don't think so.
00:38:02
◼
►
That's unbelievable to me.
00:38:04
◼
►
Well, it's like an 11 by 17.
00:38:06
◼
►
It's a broad sheet.
00:38:07
◼
►
So two of those side by side.
00:38:11
◼
►
But then we moved to digital.
00:38:14
◼
►
So we moved to like sending them PDFs.
00:38:16
◼
►
And I learned that in high school.
00:38:18
◼
►
I repeated that task in college because in 2004, when I showed up at my college paper, they were doing paste up still.
00:38:23
◼
►
It's like, no, we got to...
00:38:24
◼
►
What are we doing?
00:38:24
◼
►
We got to send PDFs.
00:38:25
◼
►
When I think about that time period, I think Jason mentioned a teacher that like was really like influential in this for him.
00:38:36
◼
►
I don't know Gruber has talked about that too.
00:38:39
◼
►
So for me, it was like the IT person at my high school.
00:38:43
◼
►
And she, I think, worked at a lot of high schools.
00:38:44
◼
►
She wasn't at our school every day.
00:38:46
◼
►
But I was used to OS 9 where you could basically do whatever you wanted.
00:38:53
◼
►
Like there were no rules.
00:38:53
◼
►
It's like, yeah, just like move files around.
00:38:55
◼
►
And, you know, worst case scenario, your system doesn't boot.
00:38:58
◼
►
But OS X had this thing called permissions that I didn't understand.
00:39:02
◼
►
And I went to go copy like the font folder.
00:39:06
◼
►
So all the computers have the same fonts on them.
00:39:08
◼
►
Probably not legal.
00:39:10
◼
►
But I didn't understand.
00:39:13
◼
►
And at the time, Mac OS X was new.
00:39:16
◼
►
And basically, it meant that I replaced like the system fonts and not the user fonts.
00:39:22
◼
►
And then I broke all the computers.
00:39:23
◼
►
And like she had to come fix them.
00:39:25
◼
►
And then like taught me like, okay, there's like system stuff and there's user stuff and they're different things.
00:39:31
◼
►
And that's not the way the classic Mac OS worked.
00:39:34
◼
►
And she was like surprisingly cool that just like some kid, some junior in high school like broke five Macs because he wanted to steal fonts between computers.
00:39:45
◼
►
Surprisingly cool with it.
00:39:48
◼
►
And I think about that.
00:39:50
◼
►
Like I think about like what Jason said and what John has said and other people have said.
00:39:53
◼
►
Like sometimes you just have somebody who is influential at the right time with the right thing.
00:40:00
◼
►
And, you know, she doesn't remember me.
00:40:03
◼
►
Like, you know, this was I'm sure just one of many headaches she had that week.
00:40:06
◼
►
But it meant a lot to me that she took the time to explain it to me and to teach me like, oh, these things are different.
00:40:11
◼
►
And it grew from there.
00:40:14
◼
►
Like, you know, and I ended up with an iPod in 2003 and and then I sort of catch up with you.
00:40:20
◼
►
Like I'm using a Mac full time.
00:40:22
◼
►
I have an iPod.
00:40:23
◼
►
The iPod is very important to me.
00:40:25
◼
►
But, yeah, I thought it was interesting that I'm like a little ahead of you, but sort of kind of in the same.
00:40:34
◼
►
Yeah, because you had a Mac before you had an iPod.
00:40:36
◼
►
I think that's a big difference to me.
00:40:39
◼
►
So in high school, I had a high school job that through that job, for some reason, the owner, I was doing design for them.
00:40:48
◼
►
And the company had a titanium power book that he just let me use as my own computer, which is really dumb because I was in high school.
00:40:56
◼
►
I took that machine to college.
00:40:57
◼
►
I was still working for them to college a little bit.
00:41:00
◼
►
And, yeah, so I had a power book and it went with me to class and back and forth to work.
00:41:06
◼
►
And, like, I it was faster than the power Mac G4 that I had the college newspaper.
00:41:12
◼
►
So I would bring it to the paper at night when I was working and I would do all my layout stuff on the power Mac.
00:41:18
◼
►
But if I like a big, like, you know, it wasn't Illustrator at the time.
00:41:24
◼
►
I guess we were using freehand or I don't know, something or like a big Photoshop file.
00:41:28
◼
►
I would do it on my power book because it was faster.
00:41:31
◼
►
And then I would, like, save it to the network so I could get it on my slower G4 that I was using to lay out the paper.
00:41:39
◼
►
Multi-computer lifestyle, really, if you think about it.
00:41:43
◼
►
You had your downstairs power book and your upstairs power mic.
00:41:48
◼
►
That's right.
00:41:49
◼
►
The newsroom was upstairs in the building.
00:41:51
◼
►
That's very interesting.
00:41:52
◼
►
There you go.
00:41:52
◼
►
See, I knew that.
00:42:00
◼
►
The other thing, kind of the other Apple history thing, was The Verge did this 50 best Apple products.
00:42:07
◼
►
And I have concerns.
00:42:10
◼
►
Yeah, we very briefly touched on it last week.
00:42:14
◼
►
But I actually wanted to go through some of the rankings.
00:42:19
◼
►
So they've got their, like, final ranking that was voted on by readers of the website.
00:42:24
◼
►
They were pre-picked by, I believe, just Neelai and David.
00:42:31
◼
►
I haven't yet listened to their two-hour episode for members where they go through the list.
00:42:37
◼
►
It's on my podcast list to listen to.
00:42:40
◼
►
But they have the list.
00:42:42
◼
►
And I thought we could maybe go through it.
00:42:44
◼
►
How would you like to go through it?
00:42:46
◼
►
We're not going to go through all 50.
00:42:49
◼
►
I think we just talk about maybe the top several.
00:42:53
◼
►
And then I have some, like, complete.
00:42:54
◼
►
Let's do the top 20.
00:42:55
◼
►
And we'll go from 20 to 1.
00:42:57
◼
►
We'll do that.
00:42:59
◼
►
So this is, the way that they have done this is not how I would do it.
00:43:02
◼
►
Where it's software services and products, I don't think I would do it this way.
00:43:07
◼
►
But I don't know.
00:43:09
◼
►
Maybe I would.
00:43:09
◼
►
I'm not sure.
00:43:10
◼
►
So we've got 20.
00:43:11
◼
►
Original iPod Mini.
00:43:15
◼
►
Got to be in there.
00:43:16
◼
►
So we should say there's a difference in ranking between best and most important.
00:43:22
◼
►
And as someone who does a lot of this stuff, like, in my writing, I struggle with this.
00:43:28
◼
►
Like, some of these things they chose, I would not have put in either list.
00:43:34
◼
►
Because they, maybe they're, maybe the, yes, the iPad 2 is better than the first iPad.
00:43:38
◼
►
But it's not more important than the first iPad.
00:43:41
◼
►
And every iPad after that is better.
00:43:43
◼
►
So you didn't have followed that rule either.
00:43:44
◼
►
Like, that's tricky, I think.
00:43:48
◼
►
And depending on how you interpret, you know, best or most important,
00:43:57
◼
►
how you vote can change things.
00:44:00
◼
►
And so, you know, I think the iPod Mini actually kind of strikes both.
00:44:04
◼
►
Like, super important.
00:44:06
◼
►
It turned the iPod into a fashion item.
00:44:08
◼
►
And that's, that was a huge moment.
00:44:10
◼
►
You could argue the iPod Mini saved Apple.
00:44:13
◼
►
You could make that argument.
00:44:15
◼
►
Because lots of people make the argument that it was like the iPod.
00:44:19
◼
►
And the iPod Mini was the one where it, it went from a thing to a thing everyone wanted.
00:44:24
◼
►
Like, that was the one.
00:44:27
◼
►
19, FaceTime.
00:44:28
◼
►
It seems, it seems high to me that it's here.
00:44:31
◼
►
But also, it is like...
00:44:38
◼
►
It's important.
00:44:39
◼
►
The verb to describe a video call.
00:44:43
◼
►
Like, nothing else really...
00:44:46
◼
►
Like, Zoom exists, but you don't really think about Zooming, Grandma.
00:44:50
◼
►
Like, for personal video calls, FaceTime is very, very popular.
00:44:55
◼
►
18, Power Mac G3.
00:44:59
◼
►
I don't understand it.
00:45:01
◼
►
I don't get it.
00:45:02
◼
►
What are we doing?
00:45:03
◼
►
What are we doing?
00:45:04
◼
►
You know, Jason said something interesting on Upgrade.
00:45:06
◼
►
Like, a lot of people were actually mad about this computer because pros didn't want a blue
00:45:11
◼
►
and white computer, and it didn't retain one ADB port, and you could get a SCSI card for it.
00:45:17
◼
►
Like, it was a transitional machine in a lot of ways.
00:45:20
◼
►
I love this machine because that high school job, like, this was actually the first computer
00:45:25
◼
►
I used there, and I have that exact Macintosh in my office right now.
00:45:30
◼
►
Like, I kept it.
00:45:30
◼
►
Look, the Power Mac G3 is amazing, and I lusted for one.
00:45:34
◼
►
There are just many more Macs that are not higher than it on this list.
00:45:38
◼
►
The iMac G4, we're not going to talk about because it's ranked 21 on this list.
00:45:43
◼
►
The Power Mac G3, while a great computer, is not number 18.
00:45:50
◼
►
There's a lot of recency bias and stuff into this list.
00:45:54
◼
►
I wouldn't call the Power Mac G3's inclusion a recency bias.
00:45:59
◼
►
When did that computer come out?
00:46:03
◼
►
You said this before, recency.
00:46:05
◼
►
Like, this is not recent.
00:46:07
◼
►
This is not recent.
00:46:08
◼
►
Well, like, I think Gruber and John Syracuse were like, oh, the kids, the kids are voting these things.
00:46:13
◼
►
Well, I mean, the Mac Plus, the Mac SE30, you know, that stuff's further down.
00:46:18
◼
►
But this isn't like the kids.
00:46:19
◼
►
But this isn't like the kids.
00:46:20
◼
►
The kids did not vote for the Power Mac G3 to be 18.
00:46:23
◼
►
That's right.
00:46:24
◼
►
I am curious who voted for the Power Mac G3.
00:46:28
◼
►
You know, but 17 is Apple Pay, which I think is the highest service on this list.
00:46:34
◼
►
Well, it depends on what you count AirDrop as, which is number 16.
00:46:40
◼
►
I think AirDrop's a feature.
00:46:42
◼
►
It's a feature, not a product.
00:46:45
◼
►
I mean, Apple Pay is very important.
00:46:49
◼
►
Like, Apple kept, we were making fun of it, but, like, they were mentioning Apple Pay in
00:46:54
◼
►
all of their marketing for Apple at 50.
00:46:58
◼
►
Because it is, like, it's a fundamental thing in life.
00:47:04
◼
►
And what it did in the U.S., because we didn't have contactless payment here really before
00:47:10
◼
►
Apple Pay, not the way we do now.
00:47:12
◼
►
You know, y'all were ahead of us in that.
00:47:15
◼
►
But Apple Pay is what made contactless payment popular in the U.S.
00:47:22
◼
►
To a point now where if I go to a place that doesn't support Apple Pay, I'm actively annoyed
00:47:29
◼
►
because I just want to use my phone.
00:47:31
◼
►
I want the security that the store on the other end doesn't get my actual credit card number,
00:47:37
◼
►
Or your physical credit card, which is like that.
00:47:40
◼
►
This mad thing that happens in America where they just take your card away from you.
00:47:45
◼
►
Even though I feel like that's changing, too.
00:47:47
◼
►
More places, I feel like, are doing the thing, like, at restaurants where, like, you pay at
00:47:51
◼
►
That, I think, is coming around.
00:47:52
◼
►
And I think Apple Pay is part of that, too.
00:47:55
◼
►
People want to tap to pay.
00:47:57
◼
►
So, yes, I think it being the top service makes a lot of sense.
00:48:02
◼
►
I want to check what it is.
00:48:05
◼
►
Like, the UK Apple Pay limit, I feel like, would be quite surprising to you.
00:48:09
◼
►
It's low, isn't it?
00:48:10
◼
►
No, it's massive.
00:48:12
◼
►
It's like...
00:48:14
◼
►
So, technically, there is no limit.
00:48:18
◼
►
It's just what the retailer wants it to be.
00:48:22
◼
►
Like, I've paid hundreds of pounds on Apple Pay.
00:48:27
◼
►
I probably have, too.
00:48:31
◼
►
There you go.
00:48:32
◼
►
Probably just at the Apple Store.
00:48:35
◼
►
Number 16 was AirDrop.
00:48:36
◼
►
Again, I also feel like I get it.
00:48:40
◼
►
I get the AirDrop.
00:48:40
◼
►
I get AirDrop being high, if in the way that Apple Pay is high.
00:48:44
◼
►
It's a good example of the ecosystem factor, right?
00:48:49
◼
►
Even though, with AirDrop specifically, that's broken down a little bit because it's supported
00:48:54
◼
►
on some Android phones now, but generally, it's like an ecosystem feature, and, I mean,
00:49:02
◼
►
I use it all the time, dude, because I've got, just like you, I've got a development phone
00:49:06
◼
►
that's on a different Apple ID, so I can't save a file to photos and it show up on my Mac.
00:49:11
◼
►
I just AirDrop stuff to myself all the time, and it's really a critical part of how I work.
00:49:21
◼
►
Number 15 is iPhone 5S.
00:49:24
◼
►
I have a problem with the description for this one.
00:49:29
◼
►
Okay, what do they say?
00:49:30
◼
►
Whoever wrote this description.
00:49:31
◼
►
Two words, Touch ID.
00:49:34
◼
►
That's fine.
00:49:35
◼
►
Two more, iOS 7.
00:49:36
◼
►
The moment Apple ditched its skeomorphic design and embraced the world in which everything was
00:49:41
◼
►
digital, this is a lot of people's all-time favorite iPhone.
00:49:44
◼
►
This is some severe, severe retconning for iOS 7's impression on the world.
00:49:51
◼
►
At the time that it launched.
00:49:52
◼
►
People were pissed at iOS 7.
00:49:55
◼
►
Yes, because it was very half-baked.
00:49:58
◼
►
You think iOS 26 is half-baked?
00:50:00
◼
►
You know, try iOS 7.
00:50:03
◼
►
That was like, because it was, right?
00:50:05
◼
►
Like, the story is, it was put together very quickly, because it was when Johnny took over
00:50:11
◼
►
from Force Law.
00:50:13
◼
►
So, like, iOS 7, I liked it, but it was very problematic.
00:50:20
◼
►
My initial reaction to this being on the list was, you got the wrong phone.
00:50:27
◼
►
The 5 should be on the list.
00:50:28
◼
►
But then I sort of stopped and thought about it a bit more.
00:50:33
◼
►
It was 64-bit.
00:50:34
◼
►
And so, Apple was really flexing its silicon muscles at this point.
00:50:40
◼
►
I didn't even think about iOS 7, honestly, coming on this phone.
00:50:42
◼
►
Like, didn't even cross my mind that that would be a factor until you read that.
00:50:47
◼
►
I do have, I do think that it is weird to me that in this, so spoilers, in this top
00:50:54
◼
►
20, that is the most modern iPhone.
00:50:57
◼
►
I feel like, no, look, I feel like the fact that the 6 Plus is not up here is wild to me.
00:51:07
◼
►
Because no one wants, no one's using phones that small as the iPhone 5S anymore.
00:51:12
◼
►
And, like, there are no big phones on this list, and the biggest phones are always the most popular
00:51:17
◼
►
That is very weird to me that they saw that.
00:51:19
◼
►
And the 6 and 6 Plus, like, we talked about it for years, right?
00:51:23
◼
►
Because it wrecked Apple's results for a long time.
00:51:26
◼
►
Because it catapulted the phone to all new heights.
00:51:29
◼
►
Or what about the iPhone X?
00:51:32
◼
►
Why is the XS on this list?
00:51:34
◼
►
That's the...
00:51:35
◼
►
Like, when I wrote down my list of, like, products they shouldn't have picked, the XS
00:51:39
◼
►
It's like, why is that there?
00:51:42
◼
►
Why is that there?
00:51:43
◼
►
Come on, David.
00:51:44
◼
►
What, the XS?
00:51:46
◼
►
Well, because also you've got the XS Max.
00:51:47
◼
►
But why not the X?
00:51:50
◼
►
Like, if you're going to choose one of those phones, it's the X.
00:51:52
◼
►
Between the X, the XS, and the XS Max.
00:51:56
◼
►
I don't know.
00:51:57
◼
►
I need to listen to their deliberations.
00:51:59
◼
►
I'm sure they've got some.
00:52:00
◼
►
Oh, I was...
00:52:02
◼
►
Well, they say the iPhone X was Apple's big anniversary redesign of a bigger screen and a new notch
00:52:06
◼
►
at the top, but it took another year to get it right.
00:52:08
◼
►
The XS Max was...
00:52:10
◼
►
What does that mean?
00:52:10
◼
►
It was fast.
00:52:11
◼
►
It had Face ID, and it was the smoothest iPhone yet.
00:52:14
◼
►
It didn't...
00:52:15
◼
►
There was nothing wrong with the X.
00:52:16
◼
►
Yeah, I know.
00:52:18
◼
►
I don't know, man.
00:52:19
◼
►
They basically repeated that logic on the podcast.
00:52:22
◼
►
Like, what are y'all talking about?
00:52:23
◼
►
Like, the X...
00:52:24
◼
►
Like, the...
00:52:25
◼
►
I think, actually, the XS and the X Face ID was no different.
00:52:28
◼
►
I think it was a later phone where they added, like, the horizontal unlock and stuff.
00:52:32
◼
►
I mean, look, the thing about the XS over the XS Max is it came in two sizes.
00:52:37
◼
►
Like, that is a big deal.
00:52:40
◼
►
That's the biggest change, I think, that matters.
00:52:42
◼
►
Yes, yes, because I was happy.
00:52:45
◼
►
The XS Max made me a very happy man.
00:52:48
◼
►
And it was gold.
00:52:49
◼
►
We're never going to get through this list.
00:52:51
◼
►
We're just talking...
00:52:51
◼
►
We're spending more time talking about the things that aren't on it.
00:52:55
◼
►
Where are we?
00:52:56
◼
►
Okay, 14, the original AirPods Pro.
00:53:00
◼
►
We can all agree, and we can move on.
00:53:02
◼
►
13, the Apple IIe.
00:53:04
◼
►
You know, I think it's good.
00:53:08
◼
►
Okay, you know, I was expecting another 20-minute diversion.
00:53:11
◼
►
I mean, I won't do it, because y'all covered it really well, but, like, it sustained Apple
00:53:17
◼
►
for a decade when the Mac wasn't a good computer yet.
00:53:20
◼
►
12, the original AirPods.
00:53:25
◼
►
Yeah, I think so.
00:53:27
◼
►
I mean, they...
00:53:29
◼
►
You know, I could maybe argue that we don't need AirPods and AirPods Pro in here, but...
00:53:34
◼
►
I think we do, but I think it's AirPods 2, not AirPods.
00:53:40
◼
►
Because I think AirPods 2 was the one that became a cultural moment.
00:53:43
◼
►
I don't think it was the original.
00:53:45
◼
►
Because the first ones looked kind of goofy.
00:53:46
◼
►
Like, I remember...
00:53:50
◼
►
I'm sure a lot of people had this experience, right?
00:53:52
◼
►
With the first iPhone or the first Apple Watch.
00:53:56
◼
►
Like, you feel self-conscious about it.
00:53:59
◼
►
Boy, I had that with the first AirPods big time.
00:54:02
◼
►
I was like, I feel like everyone has noticed this.
00:54:05
◼
►
And, you know, I think it's probably, like, the Mad Men scene of, like, I don't think about
00:54:09
◼
►
But it felt like, oh, I'm in the gym or I'm at the grocery store or whatever and I'm wearing
00:54:15
◼
►
these and, like, oh, look at Future Boy over there.
00:54:19
◼
►
But the AirPods 2, I think, really were when they took off.
00:54:31
◼
►
The original iPad.
00:54:35
◼
►
I can't believe this is in top 10.
00:54:37
◼
►
It's surprising because I have a lot of problems with number 9.
00:54:44
◼
►
What is number 9?
00:54:45
◼
►
Well, we got to do number 10 first.
00:54:47
◼
►
Oh, I'm sorry.
00:54:48
◼
►
That's how you keep people listening.
00:54:50
◼
►
It's about retentions.
00:54:53
◼
►
10 is the iPod with the click wheel, fourth gen.
00:54:57
◼
►
I agree with this.
00:54:59
◼
►
This is when they went away from the horrible buttons.
00:55:02
◼
►
Well, that was my favorite iPod because it was my first one.
00:55:05
◼
►
But, but, a couple things happened.
00:55:08
◼
►
The click wheel one, yes, made a lot more sense to a lot more people.
00:55:12
◼
►
It's also when the price started coming down in a more meaningful way.
00:55:16
◼
►
It's where they added color.
00:55:17
◼
►
Like, I think when most people think about the iPod, this is the one they picture.
00:55:23
◼
►
You know, this one, maybe the, you know, maybe the fifth gen with video, but this was sort
00:55:28
◼
►
of when the iPod found itself because clearly the click wheel was the way to go.
00:55:33
◼
►
And before this, they had buttons around the outside and they had, you know, the four buttons
00:55:37
◼
►
across the top.
00:55:38
◼
►
The click wheel started with the mini.
00:55:40
◼
►
That's where it was first debuted.
00:55:42
◼
►
But like, click wheel iPod is the iPod in a lot of people's mind, I think.
00:55:47
◼
►
And so, yeah, 10, 10 is great.
00:55:53
◼
►
Number nine is the slim unibody iMac.
00:55:57
◼
►
What do you mean why?
00:55:58
◼
►
Why was this chosen to be on this list?
00:56:01
◼
►
I mean, they didn't redesign it for 15 years.
00:56:04
◼
►
It's just not.
00:56:05
◼
►
I just don't know.
00:56:08
◼
►
Like, if you're going to talk about the iMac, you have the G3, the G4, the G5.
00:56:12
◼
►
I get all that.
00:56:12
◼
►
They were all in this, in this list somewhere, I think.
00:56:16
◼
►
But then why, like, the slim unibody iMac?
00:56:19
◼
►
Because, like, it's a very, very, very popular computer.
00:56:23
◼
►
Like, the 27-inch iMac?
00:56:26
◼
►
But, like, why not?
00:56:27
◼
►
Then why not the retina iMac?
00:56:28
◼
►
If you're talking about best, that's the best version of this.
00:56:31
◼
►
But they're not talking about best.
00:56:32
◼
►
I actually don't think they even caught, they just caught top 50.
00:56:36
◼
►
And I guess, like, you can decide.
00:56:38
◼
►
Maybe in people's mind, slim unibody iMac encompasses all of them.
00:56:45
◼
►
But it just...
00:56:47
◼
►
But all of what, though?
00:56:48
◼
►
Like, from...
00:56:49
◼
►
Like, the regular iMac, the 5K retina, you know?
00:56:53
◼
►
Because when these first came out, they weren't retina, right?
00:56:56
◼
►
They were, like, 1080p or something.
00:56:58
◼
►
I don't know.
00:56:59
◼
►
It strikes me as strange that it's such a broad product.
00:57:04
◼
►
Because this product lasted basically 12 or 13 years, and, like...
00:57:10
◼
►
I mean, they are...
00:57:11
◼
►
But they are counting from 2012 to when it ended.
00:57:15
◼
►
Like, they're not...
00:57:16
◼
►
I think they're, like, specifically not trying to pick specific ones, right?
00:57:20
◼
►
So, like, I think this is fine.
00:57:23
◼
►
It's, like, a very broad brush that they are...
00:57:27
◼
►
It's, like, if it was aluminium, essentially.
00:57:29
◼
►
They're counting it here.
00:57:31
◼
►
And I think it's...
00:57:31
◼
►
I don't think it's top 10.
00:57:33
◼
►
But I do think its inclusion makes sense to me.
00:57:36
◼
►
And I guess I'm a little surprised that it's top 10.
00:57:38
◼
►
Like, do that many people have an affinity for this computer?
00:57:42
◼
►
I mean, it was around for such a long time.
00:57:44
◼
►
How could you not, right?
00:57:45
◼
►
And, like, I loved my Retina iMac.
00:57:47
◼
►
And I loved the iMac Pro that came after it.
00:57:50
◼
►
It strikes me as odd that it's so high.
00:57:53
◼
►
Number eight.
00:57:54
◼
►
Wedge MacBook Air.
00:57:56
◼
►
It changed laptops.
00:57:58
◼
►
What more do you need to say?
00:58:00
◼
►
Number seven.
00:58:00
◼
►
We're just going to blow for it.
00:58:02
◼
►
Bondi Blue iMac.
00:58:04
◼
►
Too low on the list, but...
00:58:06
◼
►
You think so?
00:58:10
◼
►
All right, so...
00:58:12
◼
►
Okay, can I...
00:58:13
◼
►
I'm just going to blast through the rest.
00:58:15
◼
►
Because I think it's important to put it in context.
00:58:22
◼
►
The original iPod.
00:58:24
◼
►
The original Macintosh.
00:58:26
◼
►
The M1 chip.
00:58:28
◼
►
Original iPhone.
00:58:29
◼
►
So where would you put the Bondi Blue iMac?
00:58:32
◼
►
I think I would go...
00:58:37
◼
►
I think I'd maybe swap it with the original...
00:58:40
◼
►
With the original iPod, I think.
00:58:43
◼
►
So you would say that the Bondi Blue iMac over the iPhone 4?
00:58:47
◼
►
Maybe this is the important versus best thing again.
00:58:52
◼
►
But without the Bondi Blue iMac, you never get to the iPhone 4.
00:58:56
◼
►
You never get to the iPod.
00:58:57
◼
►
Because you don't...
00:58:59
◼
►
So Bondi Blue iMac is number one, then.
00:59:01
◼
►
And I don't agree with that.
00:59:02
◼
►
7 just feels low.
00:59:04
◼
►
It just feels low.
00:59:06
◼
►
I don't think...
00:59:07
◼
►
Maybe it feels low.
00:59:08
◼
►
I don't think it's higher than any of these.
00:59:12
◼
►
Maybe that's my problem.
00:59:13
◼
►
Although the M1 chip one is still a weird thing to put in here.
00:59:15
◼
►
Like, I wouldn't put that in at all.
00:59:19
◼
►
This is a little strange.
00:59:21
◼
►
So, like, if you take that away, now it's 6.
00:59:24
◼
►
But I don't...
00:59:25
◼
►
I also do...
00:59:26
◼
►
So for me, I would do products.
00:59:28
◼
►
So Mac OS X and the M1 chip are not in this list at all.
00:59:31
◼
►
You just do hardware products.
00:59:34
◼
►
I would just do products.
00:59:35
◼
►
Like, you have to be able to hold it, I think, is important to me.
00:59:39
◼
►
Well, you can hold OS X.
00:59:40
◼
►
It came on CDs.
00:59:41
◼
►
It doesn't count.
00:59:43
◼
►
I know what you mean.
00:59:43
◼
►
I know what you mean.
00:59:44
◼
►
Because then it's like, what, all of Mac OS X?
00:59:48
◼
►
Why not all of the iMac?
00:59:50
◼
►
Like, why not all of the iPod?
00:59:52
◼
►
And they made a good case on the Vergecast for this, like...
00:59:57
◼
►
I mean, there are good cases you can make.
00:59:59
◼
►
I'm just saying this, if it was my list.
01:00:00
◼
►
But this isn't my list.
01:00:01
◼
►
And I think with their list being what it is, I wouldn't put the Bondi Blue iMac over any of these.
01:00:10
◼
►
Do you know it's been 10 years exactly since I started collecting all those iMacs?
01:00:13
◼
►
That's wonderful.
01:00:14
◼
►
It was in my, like, photo of the day widget in Widget Smith, and I was like, holy smokes.
01:00:18
◼
►
Then you should write something about it again.
01:00:21
◼
►
I think you should write something about it.
01:00:22
◼
►
I actually, okay.
01:00:23
◼
►
I have not bought a computer in a long time.
01:00:28
◼
►
Like, a collection computer?
01:00:30
◼
►
I've really been good.
01:00:33
◼
►
I have something coming to me that I've been looking for at least 10 years, if not longer.
01:00:44
◼
►
I became aware of one, and it is heading to me.
01:00:48
◼
►
And that's all I'm going to say.
01:00:49
◼
►
Oh, you can't do that.
01:00:51
◼
►
Because I'm also going to make a video on it.
01:00:55
◼
►
I can't tell you.
01:00:56
◼
►
Is it related to the iMac?
01:00:57
◼
►
I can't tell you that.
01:00:58
◼
►
I just thought about it because I thought about the 10 years since I bought this iMacs.
01:01:02
◼
►
You have to tell me when we're done.
01:01:03
◼
►
I'll tell you when we're done.
01:01:06
◼
►
I don't know where we are now.
01:01:08
◼
►
iPhone 4 being the top iPhone on the list, other than the original.
01:01:11
◼
►
Other than the original, yes.
01:01:13
◼
►
Like, the 4 was beautiful and amazing, and they're on a screen, and FaceTime, and all
01:01:17
◼
►
those things.
01:01:17
◼
►
I still think they need more iPhones higher up, but I do agree that, like, the only phone
01:01:22
◼
►
that could maybe be close to the original iPhone is the 4.
01:01:30
◼
►
That was so good, man.
01:01:31
◼
►
The 4 is just so good.
01:01:32
◼
►
Mac OS X, which you mentioned.
01:01:36
◼
►
Really, what they wrote and what they talked about was Mac OS X being the connector,
01:01:43
◼
►
between you bought Next, and that technology now powers everything.
01:01:50
◼
►
Then why is it not number one, then?
01:01:51
◼
►
Well, I mean, that's the problem, right?
01:01:53
◼
►
It's like these things, you know.
01:01:54
◼
►
The issue is, I think the disconnect, whilst this is a great, I think this is an incredible
01:02:01
◼
►
project that they did, and I'm so happy that they did it.
01:02:03
◼
►
We're arguing about, like, an amazing thing here.
01:02:05
◼
►
I think the problem is trying to take David and Eli's opinions and putting them against
01:02:13
◼
►
the masses is the issue, because they make a really good point for why you would include
01:02:19
◼
►
this, but that point doesn't match with the results, I think.
01:02:25
◼
►
Because if you're making the point of, we include Mac OS X because you don't have anything else,
01:02:30
◼
►
well, then Mac OS X should be number one, but it isn't number one.
01:02:33
◼
►
It's number five.
01:02:34
◼
►
It's like the same as including the M1 chip at all.
01:02:38
◼
►
Why is it there?
01:02:39
◼
►
So what do they give for the M1 chip, which is at number two?
01:02:43
◼
►
The moment Apple goes from a company that makes its own processors to an absolute silicon powerhouse,
01:02:47
◼
►
the M1 first shipped on a MacBook Air and offered a combination of power and battery that
01:02:52
◼
►
its competitors still can't match.
01:02:54
◼
►
It's like, I don't know.
01:02:55
◼
►
Yeah, so like, here's the thing.
01:02:59
◼
►
So Zoe says, and Eli says, Mac OS X was his personal number one.
01:03:02
◼
►
It's like, I get that.
01:03:04
◼
►
But the problem is then you let people vote on it, and it doesn't make sense anymore to me.
01:03:07
◼
►
But anyway, here we are.
01:03:09
◼
►
Five was the OS X.
01:03:10
◼
►
Four was the original iPod.
01:03:13
◼
►
Number three was the original Mac.
01:03:21
◼
►
I'm going to say something that I think that's a little bit like the iOS 7 thing.
01:03:30
◼
►
It's just a hair of like revisionist history.
01:03:37
◼
►
Yeah, I'm going to say a thing that I'm not sure I agree with.
01:03:39
◼
►
We put the Mac on a pedestal.
01:03:43
◼
►
The original one, you mean?
01:03:48
◼
►
Like the thing that I've walked away from the Apple at 50 book, which I just finished
01:03:52
◼
►
The Pogue book?
01:03:53
◼
►
The Pogue book.
01:03:54
◼
►
You have two photos in that book?
01:03:56
◼
►
I know you do, which is really my favorite thing.
01:04:01
◼
►
Okay, we don't talk about that.
01:04:02
◼
►
I had forgotten about it.
01:04:04
◼
►
You forgot that they were in there.
01:04:04
◼
►
So, okay, we'll just tell the story.
01:04:07
◼
►
So a couple nights ago at like 11 p.m. I'm reading this book, and I come across one of
01:04:13
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And I turned to Mary and be like, my photo's in this book!
01:04:16
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And I texted you and Jason, and Jason was like, yeah, don't you remember?
01:04:20
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Like, I got them in touch with you, and you like signed a thing.
01:04:23
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I was like, oh yeah, I forgot all about that.
01:04:25
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Because it happened in the middle of our St. Jude campaign, and like anything that happens
01:04:30
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during the fundraiser, I don't remember, other than the fundraiser.
01:04:33
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You know, you probably told me as well.
01:04:39
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Yeah, two photos.
01:04:41
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And I don't remember.
01:04:41
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I'm very, I'm very cool.
01:04:43
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It's very cool to be part of it.
01:04:44
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Very thankful they reached out.
01:04:46
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I'm sorry, I didn't remember initially, and was angry for a second.
01:04:50
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The original Macintosh was, it changed everything, but only because later models were successful.
01:05:04
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Say the Lisa had been successful, and there had been the Lisa 2, 3, 4, 5, whatever.
01:05:09
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Then we would say, oh, the original Lisa is the top of the list.
01:05:13
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But it's not, because it didn't change the world, right?
01:05:17
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The Lisa was too expensive, it was flawed in lots of ways.
01:05:19
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The original Macintosh gets held up because later models, when Jobs was gone, like the Mac's success,
01:05:28
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so what I learned from the Pogue book, or what was reinforced to me in the Pogue book was,
01:05:33
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John Scully and other Apple executives are why the Macintosh was successful in the long run.
01:05:40
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Because if it was just a closed box that you couldn't do anything with, then it was going to live a short life.
01:05:47
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Just saying.
01:05:49
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You know, Jason made a joke about, like, the Scully reputation repair tour or whatever.
01:05:55
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It's like, you know, it's not a bad thing.
01:05:59
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Like, yeah, he made some mistakes, and yeah, maybe you don't sink all the money into the Newton,
01:06:03
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but boy, if you had not let the team build a Mac with slots and add color to the Mac
01:06:10
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and expand the Mac in different form factors, the original Macintosh would not be number three on this list.
01:06:15
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All right, then we've got the M1 chip and the iPhone.
01:06:19
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Yeah, I agree with you. I would not put the M1 chip on this list, but it deserves to be in the top ten if it's going to be on the list, I think.
01:06:26
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Yeah, and I don't think you can make this list and not put the iPhone number one.
01:06:31
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Yeah, the original iPhone, I think, was always going to be number one.
01:06:35
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Like, when I saw this, my thought was, like, the iPhone wins.
01:06:38
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I mean, what, it's probably the greatest piece of consumer technology of all time?
01:06:43
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Like, I don't think there's anything better.
01:06:44
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Like, I know that there are a lot of things that had to happen to get it here, but none of those are more important than this.
01:06:50
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So at least it came out in the end at the right point.
01:06:54
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I got a question for you.
01:06:58
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What changed the world more, the original iPhone or the original Mac?
01:07:04
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I think so, too.
01:07:05
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Yeah, the iPhone changed the world more.
01:07:07
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I think the iPhone's legacy or impact will be felt much longer.
01:07:15
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And what really makes me think that is that there are so many people in the world that do not have and may never have a desktop or a notebook computer.
01:07:28
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But they have a smartphone.
01:07:30
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And it may not be an iPhone.
01:07:31
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It's probably not an iPhone.
01:07:32
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But whatever phone they've got owes a lot to the original iPhone.
01:07:40
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Well, because I think for the Mac, the Mac brought Microsoft into the world, right?
01:07:49
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In a way, right?
01:07:50
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Like, people having personal computers meant that we got Windows PCs, ultimately.
01:07:55
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And I feel like the iPhone meant that people have iPhones.
01:07:59
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Do you get what I'm saying?
01:08:01
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Like, I know we have Android as well, but I think the iPhone is successful at a level that Apple have not been with computers.
01:08:10
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Like, the amount of market share that they have.
01:08:14
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It's completely different.
01:08:17
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Take that, The Verge.
01:08:19
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We love you.
01:08:20
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I don't think they need to take anything.
01:08:23
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I'm very behind on The Verge cast, but I'm meaning to listen to where they also give their own rankings.
01:08:30
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And I am very confident that they're also unhappy with the ranking that was given by the people.
01:08:35
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At some point, they're arguing about printers should be higher, I think, which is not wrong.
01:08:40
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This episode of Connected is brought to you by Mercury Weather.
01:08:45
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Mercury Weather is a thoughtfully designed and, frankly, beautiful weather app that shows all your essential weather details at a glance.
01:08:54
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It is this gorgeous, colorful interface that dynamically adapts to conditions, a little touch that I love.
01:09:01
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►
So, if it's, like, warm and sunny, it's got a warm orange color palette.
01:09:05
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►
But if it's cold, it's going to have icy tones or deep blue on a rainy night.
01:09:09
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Those little attention to details is awesome.
01:09:12
◼
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Mercury uses a glanceable chart layout to present the hourly and daily forecast in a way that feels intuitive right away.
01:09:20
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And if you're traveling, Mercury Weather is awesome.
01:09:23
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They have a trip forecast feature that automatically shows the weather at your destination right in your daily forecast timeline.
01:09:31
◼
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So, you can see what the weather will be where you're going, not just where you are.
01:09:37
◼
►
All of these features are awesome.
01:09:38
◼
►
The design is awesome.
01:09:39
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►
But that trip forecast feature really is great.
01:09:43
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►
I'm getting ready to do some traveling.
01:09:44
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►
I have a lot of traveling this summer.
01:09:45
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►
And it's a great way to see what to expect.
01:09:49
◼
►
And when the weather gets serious, Mercury offers storm and hurricane tracking with maps, live positions, forecast paths, cones, and intensity.
01:09:59
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Plus, widgets that can keep tabs on a specific storm, or the closest one, right from your home screen.
01:10:05
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Mercury Weather's gorgeous interface makes it a delight to check the weather every day, even on gray and rainy ones.
01:10:12
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And the app's business model is simple.
01:10:14
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No ads, no selling of user data.
01:10:17
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Mercury is available on all Apple platforms, minus tvOS.
01:10:21
◼
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You can download it, use the standard features for free, and upgrade to Mercury Premium to unlock all the features.
01:10:28
◼
►
Go to mercuryweather.app slash connected to download it now.
01:10:32
◼
►
Use that link to let them know that you came from this show.
01:10:36
◼
►
It's mercuryweather.app slash connected to go try it out and get the standard features for free.
01:10:43
◼
►
That link is in the show notes.
01:10:44
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►
Go check it out.
01:10:45
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►
My thanks to Mercury Weather for the support of the show and all of Relay.
01:10:49
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►
Mike, WBC is around the corner.
01:10:54
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Which is horrifying.
01:10:57
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And you had the idea of we could talk about what we would like to see at WBC beyond the obvious Apple intelligence being a thing that matters.
01:11:07
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What do we want that's not Apple intelligence?
01:11:10
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When do we want it now?
01:11:12
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And also, basically what this ended up being, by and large for me, is here is mostly a list of little things that bother me.
01:11:20
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And I would like to talk about a couple of them.
01:11:22
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And then also, here's some things that I'm not going to get, but I want them anyway.
01:11:27
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So can I give you my list?
01:11:30
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These are not ranked in any way.
01:11:31
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They're just, these were the things, when I sat down to write today, these were the things that I wrote down while I was on the bus on the way to the gym, which is where I do quite a bit of connective prep now.
01:11:45
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iPhone's a great thing.
01:11:45
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I can't wait to have an iPhone where I can look at two apps side by side, by the way, because that will make my going to the gym on the bus doing connective work much nicer.
01:11:59
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I want watchOS to be, I've said tweaked, but I actually want them to kind of give it another go, just in general.
01:12:10
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It's been like three years since the redesign, like, let's do it again.
01:12:13
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The redesign didn't go far enough.
01:12:16
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The restructuring, I mean, not, I mean, they added liquid glass, but like the, the changing what the buttons do kind of thing.
01:12:21
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It's not even that.
01:12:24
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It's like, I, I think that the concept of apps and the way that they are launched on watchOS shouldn't exist.
01:12:36
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Like, I don't think we should have a list of apps on watchOS and like you scroll through the list and get the app you want.
01:12:45
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I think that the smart stack and widget kind of idea on watchOS is really good and tapping one of those to then get a full screen experience is good.
01:13:01
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But I, I'm kind of of the mind that, and maybe this is very focused on how I use my watch at least, that I don't ever feel like I should be scrolling through a list of apps to get something.
01:13:17
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I feel like if it's, if I've not got it as either a complication or in the smart stack, it's not important enough to be on my Apple watch.
01:13:24
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I had not thought about it this way, but I don't disagree with you.
01:13:30
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Like, I, I feel like I launched things from complications or the, or the stack.
01:13:35
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And if there is an app that I access through the list of apps, that app should be encouraged to make something that lives in the smart stack instead.
01:13:46
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And so I access it that way.
01:13:48
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I, I think Apple needs to push the smart stack a bit further.
01:13:51
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I don't know why they even have a limit at all.
01:13:53
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A smarter stack, if you will.
01:13:55
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Just bigger.
01:13:56
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Just like, you know, do you remember glances?
01:13:59
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It was, it was like the first take of this.
01:14:02
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They were horizontal, like, looks into apps.
01:14:05
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But like, this idea goes back to the beginning, that the Apple watch is not a computer.
01:14:11
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It should just be a way to get information to me quickly.
01:14:15
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So I should never be scrolling through an alphabet, alphabetical list of apps or navigating an obscene honeycomb to try and find what I'm looking for.
01:14:30
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Like, I want to see them go further into widgets, not app experiences.
01:14:33
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And like, that, that is the way that I, you know, I think by and large on the Apple watch,
01:14:41
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should come to me.
01:14:42
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I should not go to it.
01:14:43
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No, it's actually funny.
01:14:44
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I wrote in my list, the watchOS smart stack should gain custom widgets.
01:14:49
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Like, why can't we have Widgetsmith in the smart stack?
01:14:54
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Why can't I build my own things in there?
01:14:55
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The closest Apple gets right now is you can put three complications in the widget at the top of the smart stack, which I really like.
01:15:05
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Like, I like to have like a complication overflow, but.
01:15:08
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Oh, that's at the top for you?
01:15:10
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Interesting.
01:15:11
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I have it pinned, maybe, I guess.
01:15:12
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You have it pinned.
01:15:14
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But the, yeah, but in general, I agree with you.
01:15:18
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Like, the watch should be less like a computer and more like a living thing.
01:15:22
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That's another thing.
01:15:22
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That little one that you mentioned, why can I only have one of those?
01:15:27
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Yeah, for real.
01:15:27
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Why can I only have one of those?
01:15:29
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I should be able to have infinite.
01:15:31
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Why am I only allowed one?
01:15:32
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So I want them to redo it.
01:15:35
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I also just generally as well, by the way, the workout app, better now, still bad.
01:15:40
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They have to start again on the workout app.
01:15:42
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It's just not good to navigate anymore.
01:15:44
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They stopped the kind of constant scroll and made it a bit more like inertia based again.
01:15:52
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And like one scroll at a time to go through the different workout types.
01:15:56
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That is a bandaid.
01:15:57
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They need to redo the workout app.
01:16:01
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I want to see Apple do some work on liquid glass, like push it, make some tweaks.
01:16:06
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There are obvious places that it needs to be improved.
01:16:09
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There are obviously going to be opportunities to do some new nice things, but just do some work.
01:16:14
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So people feel like you're doing work and make them feel better.
01:16:17
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You know, Apple books, ebook and audio book syncing.
01:16:23
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Yeah, they don't have that.
01:16:26
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Kindle does this.
01:16:28
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Oh, it's called whisper sync.
01:16:31
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So if you have an audible book and a Kindle book, it will sync the position between the two.
01:16:38
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I want Apple to do this with the ebook and audio book that they offer.
01:16:45
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That's what I want.
01:16:46
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I wonder if there's like a patent issue or something.
01:16:51
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I mean, maybe.
01:16:53
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I just don't know.
01:16:54
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But I still want them to do it.
01:16:56
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Find a way, you know.
01:17:01
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Similarly to watch OS.
01:17:03
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You need to redo it.
01:17:05
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►
Like, I don't need apps.
01:17:07
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I don't need apps on my TV.
01:17:09
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But you're going to have to have them because everybody needs their own space.
01:17:12
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But it's the future of television, Mike.
01:17:14
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That's true.
01:17:15
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The future is still not here.
01:17:17
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But to me, the thing about TV OS is the same as it always is.
01:17:21
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Like, you need to do the engineering and the deal making to get everything in the TV app.
01:17:25
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Just do what needs to be done.
01:17:27
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And then also get everybody to use the system player.
01:17:31
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►
That's what I want.
01:17:32
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That is not going to happen.
01:17:33
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I want some hints that the folding iPhone is coming.
01:17:36
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Just because that would be fun.
01:17:37
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You know, in a few sessions.
01:17:40
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Make your iPhone apps responsive.
01:17:42
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Like, you know, there'll be something.
01:17:43
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►
I want them.
01:17:43
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Just give me them.
01:17:45
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►
I want Apple to continue the 50th celebration and give developers in attendance at WWDC the chance to see some cool historic things.
01:17:52
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►
I would be sad because I don't have a ticket.
01:17:57
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►
I hope they're going to do this and I think they might.
01:17:59
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►
Because I know that they have these things going on at Apple Park.
01:18:02
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We've seen it.
01:18:02
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►
They have stuff.
01:18:04
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►
And so I think they should let people see it.
01:18:06
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Even if it's just, you know, at Steve Jobs Theater one day, you can just go around and look at some old Macs.
01:18:11
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They should do it.
01:18:13
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►
And then my big dream, unveil new products.
01:18:17
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►
I want a HomePod of a display and smart glasses.
01:18:19
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►
I know I'm not going to get either of them now, but why not just dream?
01:18:22
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►
You know, it's good to dream.
01:18:24
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►
That's what I want at WWDC.
01:18:25
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►
It is good to dream.
01:18:26
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►
Worldwide dreaming conference.
01:18:29
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►
Why wouldn't dream continuously?
01:18:35
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►
Maybe run up the clock.
01:18:37
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►
Nearly there.
01:18:40
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►
I agree with all your list.
01:18:42
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►
I came to this after you did.
01:18:43
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►
I was like, oh, you wrote down basically everything I would write down.
01:18:45
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►
A couple other things that I would mention is additional widget sizes.
01:18:52
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►
We have a lot of requests for like, why can't I have a widget that's the size of an app icon?
01:18:57
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►
Or one that, and this is on Android, which I think is why we get this request, is a widget size that's like one high but four wide.
01:19:05
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►
So it's like a bar size.
01:19:07
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►
I think that'd be awesome.
01:19:09
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►
I certainly would like them.
01:19:11
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►
And I think they should just do more of that stuff, especially if the HomePod would display as like widget powered, which it seems like it's going to be.
01:19:18
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►
More sizes would be, would be welcome.
01:19:22
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►
I agree with you on liquid glass.
01:19:26
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►
I want them to focus that primarily on Tahoe because I think Tahoe has the most problems.
01:19:32
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►
I've really just come to accept it on the iPhone.
01:19:34
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►
I don't, I don't mind it on the iPhone really.
01:19:35
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►
Like my, my problems with it are all primarily on the Mac.
01:19:40
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►
Um, I wrote app intense with like eight question marks behind it.
01:19:43
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►
Like what's going on with that.
01:19:44
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►
And the, my last one is a focus on control center.
01:19:51
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►
Um, I think there's a lot of like first party features, especially on the Mac version of control center that you just can't use that they're not options.
01:19:59
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►
And I really liked the customization of control center, but that whole thing is really fiddly.
01:20:05
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►
It's really easy to blow up your setup, like moving things around and resizing.
01:20:09
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►
I think it should be, uh, easier for someone who has never done that to like get a foot in the door.
01:20:17
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►
I think a lot of people don't know you can customize control center or like never come across that feature.
01:20:21
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►
Like how, well, how could Apple make it, uh, more useful and easier to use for people?
01:20:28
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►
They also need to get some third party developers to implement it too.
01:20:31
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►
And they need to get, yeah, it's, it's, there's not a, there's not a ton of, of, of,
01:20:35
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►
third party support there.
01:20:36
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►
And most it's okay.
01:20:38
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►
We'll do it via a shortcut or you can launch my app.
01:20:41
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►
And like, there should be, there should be more there.
01:20:45
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►
Cause I mean, this actually could just go to, which control center are you talking about?
01:20:52
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►
I mean, both.
01:20:53
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►
I think, I think the Mac version is worse off than the iPhone, except when it comes to like the rearranging madness.
01:20:59
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►
That's horrible on the iPhone.
01:21:01
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►
The other thing I wouldn't mind is to be able to sync my control center between devices.
01:21:06
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►
Like I would like it to be the same on my iPhone and iPad, but I just dialed in my iPhone and basically never use it on the iPad because rebuilding it and rearranging it is a pain in the butt.
01:21:16
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►
So I just haven't.
01:21:18
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►
There you go.
01:21:20
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►
There's your list.
01:21:22
◼
►
Like a Cupertino, start your photocopiers, you know?
01:21:24
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►
That's right.
01:21:25
◼
►
That's right.
01:21:26
◼
►
Dude, do what we want.
01:21:29
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►
I also think, and I've thought this for a long time, I think the general structure of WVC is like fundamentally broken because these features are basically across every platform now or like three out of the five platforms or whatever.
01:21:45
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And you, you feel that tension in WVC where Apple's like talking about the iPhone and they mentioned a feature that they already showed off in the Mac section or vice versa.
01:21:57
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It's just like the presentation, the way they do the presentation, the keynote.
01:22:01
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Because they don't want to spoil it for later on and then it ends up getting really confusing.
01:22:05
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It's like, wait, is that feature on both or is it just on the iPad or like, and yes, they're always going to be platform specific features, but for the features that are going to be everywhere, like, like say that, say they're bringing something new to Apple notes this year.
01:22:20
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Why can't there be like a productivity section where like, this is what's new and notes and reminders.
01:22:26
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And why is that like shoehorned into an iPhone section or an iPad section?
01:22:31
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Because that's how you very quickly make WWDC Google IO.
01:22:35
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Yeah, that's a good point.
01:22:37
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If every team gets to present, people are going to be presenting really boring things.
01:22:41
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Maybe there's a middle ground.
01:22:43
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I'm sure there is.
01:22:44
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I've just found more and more that WWDC is kind of confusing at times.
01:22:56
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And, you know, that matters for us because we're trying to cover it.
01:22:59
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And it's like, what is the truth?
01:23:01
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Because it's, it's hard to know sometimes.
01:23:04
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Well, the way to fix it, you're not going to like, is they should always start with iOS.
01:23:10
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Because then they'll cover everything and then they can talk about the things that are significant, that are specific to each platform.
01:23:19
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That's fair.
01:23:20
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Do they always start with iOS?
01:23:22
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I feel like they don't.
01:23:24
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In fact, sometimes it's last.
01:23:27
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I feel like if you start with iOS, you'll talk about everything that's going to be on the main platform
01:23:31
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and therefore may also be on the other platforms and they can mention that.
01:23:34
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And then they can go through later on and talk about the other stuff.
01:23:37
◼
►
But that's going to, you know, it's going to really disrupt the kind of excitement of WWDC.
01:23:45
◼
►
This episode of the show is brought to you by Steam Clock.
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Let's just be honest.
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A lot of mobile apps are pretty mediocre.
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They're not broken.
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They're just, they're fine.
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They're okay.
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But you notice the difference the moment you use something good.
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And that's where Steam Clock Software comes in.
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They build mobile apps for companies who care about taste.
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and they've been shipping great iOS and Android apps for over 15 years.
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Their clients are growing tech companies that care about mobile,
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but don't have the in-house team to build something great.
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Steam Clock works with companies to level up their app so they can go from it's holding
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us back to it's pulling its weight.
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Some of their clients discover the hard way that vibe coding your way to the app store is
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So what makes Steam Clock worth calling is not just that they execute well, which of course
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Steam Clock is where to start.
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Go to Steam Clock dot com slash connected to get in touch.
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That's Steam Clock dot com slash connected.
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My thanks to Steam Clock for the support of the show and all of Relay.
01:25:22
◼
►
Would you go to space?
01:25:29
◼
►
What kind of space are we talking about?
01:25:31
◼
►
What does that mean?
01:25:33
◼
►
Well, because you've got low Earth orbit and you've got like the moon.
01:25:37
◼
►
Space space.
01:25:39
◼
►
So like what are you asking me?
01:25:41
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Would you go to low Earth orbit?
01:25:42
◼
►
Like would you go to the space station?
01:25:43
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I would do it if it was commercial and had been going on for a while.
01:25:52
◼
►
Both of those are basically true now.
01:25:54
◼
►
You know, like Virgin Galactic or whatever, right?
01:25:57
◼
►
Like we're like a few years into that and it's been going fine.
01:26:00
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I would do it.
01:26:02
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Would you go to the moon or like deep space?
01:26:05
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I don't think so.
01:26:08
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It feels riskier.
01:26:10
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I mean, it is to a degree, but.
01:26:13
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It feels like it just feels much more fraught, you know?
01:26:21
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I don't think I would, but I get car seat in the backseat of a car.
01:26:27
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►
Or I get car sick in the backseat of a car.
01:26:28
◼
►
So maybe that's part of it.
01:26:31
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►
Anyways, Artemis 2, Mike.
01:26:32
◼
►
As we're recording, we have people coming back from the moon.
01:26:35
◼
►
Three Americans, one Canadian.
01:26:37
◼
►
It's the first time people have been to lunar space in 53 years.
01:26:45
◼
►
1972, the end of the Apollo missions.
01:26:47
◼
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And then we did the space shuttle.
01:26:50
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On places no humans have ever been before, right?
01:26:52
◼
►
They went further.
01:26:53
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►
Is that true?
01:26:53
◼
►
So Apollo, previously Apollo 13 held the record for being the furthest away from Earth because
01:27:00
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they were supposed to land on the moon.
01:27:02
◼
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Then their spaceship exploded and they couldn't land on the moon and they swung around the moon to get back.
01:27:07
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And that required a longer slingshot around the back of the moon.
01:27:10
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►
Artemis 2, current mission, went further.
01:27:14
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►
So they are the four people who have gone the furthest away from the planet.
01:27:19
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►
Which just has to be a weird feeling.
01:27:20
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Like, it's very strange.
01:27:22
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Um, and they're on their way back and this is like captured, I think, I feel like this
01:27:31
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►
has captured the world's attention in a way that I didn't expect.
01:27:34
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Yeah, I think so.
01:27:36
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I think people are feeling feelings about it, which is odd.
01:27:39
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Like, I know I have been, too.
01:27:41
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Like, the imagery.
01:27:42
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It's the imagery.
01:27:43
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That's what it is.
01:27:43
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I think it is the imagery.
01:27:44
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I mean, these photos are incredible.
01:27:50
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And a lot of that is, it's views that we haven't seen in a long time.
01:27:55
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So, like, the actual, the images are better.
01:27:58
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Um, those shots of an eclipse where the moon, or like the Earth, all that stuff, like the shadows,
01:28:06
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all of it, they're just so incredible.
01:28:09
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Um, and I think people are really plugged into it because a lot of other news,
01:28:14
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►
things are depressing.
01:28:15
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And like, this is a thing that is exciting and new and inspiring, right?
01:28:21
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►
There is something inherently inspiring about exploration, I think.
01:28:26
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And, and this is an important step to return to the surface.
01:28:30
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Like, you know, there's always people who are, throw cold water on this stuff.
01:28:33
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It's like, well, why are we just going around the moon?
01:28:35
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►
It's like, well, this is a step to land.
01:28:37
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►
Just like Apollo 8, which was the first mission around the moon, underrated mission.
01:28:43
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►
That set the stage to land later on.
01:28:46
◼
►
Um, same thing here.
01:28:48
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►
You know, hopefully a future Artemis mission will be able to land and, and we'll put, uh,
01:28:55
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►
people back on the moon.
01:28:56
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►
It'd be the first woman on the moon, first person of color on the moon.
01:28:59
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►
Cause it was all, it was all white dudes in the sixties and seventies.
01:29:01
◼
►
Um, and so lots of exciting things.
01:29:05
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►
And as far as the technology has come, we can learn much more about living on the moon long
01:29:09
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►
term, which I think is a potential future.
01:29:13
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►
This is a step towards all that.
01:29:14
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►
Do you think that's like a real thing?
01:29:17
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►
I, I think it should be.
01:29:21
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►
I think if, uh, one, well, it's not data centers in space because that's silly, but I do think
01:29:30
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►
that ultimately like long, long term, it benefits humanity to not just be here.
01:29:38
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And I don't think the moon is the it though.
01:29:41
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No, but you have to do that first.
01:29:44
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Because Mars is so much harder.
01:29:46
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►
We got to get really good at the moon.
01:29:48
◼
►
But even as this is happening, the administration wants to cut NASA's budget big time next year.
01:29:57
◼
►
Like this, the same week where these people are flying around the moon.
01:30:03
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►
You're ruining the feel good part.
01:30:04
◼
►
We were just talking about how it's feel good and making it not feel good.
01:30:08
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►
Um, I think the other reason it has captured people.
01:30:14
◼
►
It is the imagery, but I also think NASA's just done a really good job with the engagement
01:30:19
◼
►
Like, um, Jim Lovell, uh, passed away.
01:30:24
◼
►
I think last year, uh, retired Apollo astronaut.
01:30:28
◼
►
He flew on eight and 13.
01:30:30
◼
►
So he flew on the first mission around the moon and then 13, which was, you know, nearly
01:30:35
◼
►
Everyone knows that story because of the movie and that sort of thing.
01:30:39
◼
►
Um, he recorded a voice message for them before he died and I've got a link to it in the show
01:30:47
◼
►
Um, it's moving.
01:30:49
◼
►
He, he opens it with like, welcome to my old neighborhood.
01:30:53
◼
►
It's like, sick, damn, like such a good job, man.
01:30:57
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►
It's really cool.
01:30:59
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►
Oh, you think you're something?
01:31:01
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►
I was there before you were born, you know?
01:31:03
◼
►
That's so good.
01:31:04
◼
►
Um, and so I think all of that, you know, has helped people plug into this and I think
01:31:11
◼
►
it's also really important in the light of future missions and budget issues.
01:31:16
◼
►
And like the SLS rocket itself is a really complicated, probably not good program.
01:31:21
◼
►
Like all of that stuff, um, people need to feel good about it.
01:31:25
◼
►
That's an important thing of it.
01:31:27
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►
One reason the, you know, there were additional Apollo missions planned and there were a lot
01:31:31
◼
►
of reasons they didn't happen.
01:31:33
◼
►
Um, part of it was NASA had already kind of turned its attention to low earth orbit.
01:31:37
◼
►
We're going to do a space station.
01:31:38
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►
We need a shuttle to go back and forth.
01:31:39
◼
►
Um, but also like the public lost interest in it.
01:31:43
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►
And when the public loses interest in something, then they have a harder time understanding why
01:31:48
◼
►
Congress is paying for it.
01:31:49
◼
►
Even though NASA is something like 0.35% of the federal budget at its height, it was a low
01:31:57
◼
►
single digit percentage.
01:31:58
◼
►
Like it's in the scheme of what the U S government spends, this is nothing.
01:32:03
◼
►
Like nothing.
01:32:04
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►
And so people are like, ah, it's too expensive.
01:32:06
◼
►
I can just write that off.
01:32:07
◼
►
Like there's so many other things that we do that matter much less than this.
01:32:12
◼
►
But if people don't care about it, it's hard to justify it.
01:32:15
◼
►
If people don't care about it, it's hard to justify it.
01:32:16
◼
►
Because it's being paid for by taxes, right?
01:32:19
◼
►
And so NASA knows that.
01:32:20
◼
►
And so I think that's one of many reasons they've really leaned into this as a cultural moment.
01:32:25
◼
►
Um, and I hadn't really realized that it had like a broken nerd containment until yesterday.
01:32:33
◼
►
I went and got a haircut and we were like talking about Artemis.
01:32:38
◼
►
She was like, have you seen the moon stuff?
01:32:40
◼
►
I was like, oh, have I seen the moon stuff?
01:32:43
◼
►
Oh, poor you.
01:32:45
◼
►
And then, and then, you know, she just walked out halfway through my haircut.
01:32:48
◼
►
But, um, it, it has broken containment in a way that I did not expect, but I'm very pleased
01:32:54
◼
►
by because it's inspiring and it's exciting.
01:32:58
◼
►
And to see, um, to see people push the boundary of what's known is, it is just, it's something
01:33:07
◼
►
that we should do.
01:33:08
◼
►
It's like built into humanity, right?
01:33:09
◼
►
We've done it for forever, right?
01:33:12
◼
►
And so this is another chapter in that story.
01:33:15
◼
►
And, and it's, it's cool as someone who wasn't around for that stuff, right?
01:33:20
◼
►
Like, like my dad is like the perfect age where like, um, in 1969, the first moon landing,
01:33:28
◼
►
my dad was 14.
01:33:29
◼
►
Like he remembers it.
01:33:31
◼
►
He lived it, right?
01:33:32
◼
►
Like he remembers it being on TV and like, we don't have that.
01:33:36
◼
►
I mean, the space shuttle was exciting, but it was flawed and marked by tragedy in a way
01:33:42
◼
►
that Apollo never was, thankfully.
01:33:43
◼
►
And so this is like a return to that.
01:33:47
◼
►
And like during the launch, uh, last week, like we just, we've had it on TV.
01:33:53
◼
►
Like we've just had the NASA stream on TV at my house.
01:33:56
◼
►
It was like, just checking in, right?
01:33:58
◼
►
They're going to land on Friday.
01:33:59
◼
►
Like I'm sure it will be on in our house watching the, the re-entry and that, that my kids are
01:34:04
◼
►
excited about it.
01:34:05
◼
►
Like, I think that's great.
01:34:06
◼
►
They landed in the ocean.
01:34:09
◼
►
Yes, they are.
01:34:12
◼
►
It's really the best way to do a capsule.
01:34:14
◼
►
Um, Russia, uh, the Soyuz lands on land.
01:34:17
◼
►
Um, they have parachutes and like retro rockets to slow it down.
01:34:21
◼
►
I mean, if something fails, it doesn't matter if you hit water or land.
01:34:26
◼
►
Like if you, if you, your parachutes don't come out, you're dead either way.
01:34:29
◼
►
It doesn't matter.
01:34:30
◼
►
Um, Russia does it because they have all the landmass, right?
01:34:35
◼
►
Uh, we don't compare to them, but the ocean's a really big target and pretty forgiving in terms
01:34:40
◼
►
of like how far off you are and in those early days that was important because some of those
01:34:46
◼
►
missions were way off target when they came down, they got better over time.
01:34:49
◼
►
Um, but yes, they will splash down in the ocean, um, and then be towed into San Diego,
01:34:55
◼
►
I think is the, the entry point.
01:34:57
◼
►
So hopefully Friday night.
01:35:03
◼
►
It's good news.
01:35:05
◼
►
We should do more of it.
01:35:06
◼
►
We've done it, Mike.
01:35:08
◼
►
We did a podcast.
01:35:11
◼
►
We actually did.
01:35:12
◼
►
People don't know, but we cut a whole section where we're going to talk about window management
01:35:18
◼
►
Because Federica's gone and I can't be stopped.
01:35:20
◼
►
You can't stop me.
01:35:23
◼
►
You want to talk about window management?
01:35:26
◼
►
I choose to be stopped.
01:35:29
◼
►
Oh, good for you.
01:35:31
◼
►
That's really good.
01:35:32
◼
►
I like that.
01:35:33
◼
►
It's good autonomy.
01:35:34
◼
►
You got there.
01:35:35
◼
►
If you want to find links about stuff we spoke about, uh, head on over to relay.fm slash connected
01:35:41
◼
►
slash five 98 links are, of course, are also in your podcast player.
01:35:46
◼
►
You can leave feedback.
01:35:48
◼
►
There's a link in the show notes for that, or you can go to connectedfeedback.com.
01:35:52
◼
►
You can join and get connected pro, which is the longer and ad-free version of the show.
01:35:58
◼
►
We do it each and every week.
01:35:59
◼
►
It's the best way to support us directly.
01:36:01
◼
►
And you get a bunch of great stuff.
01:36:03
◼
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In addition to the longer ad-free episode, you get access to the relay discord and two members
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◼
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only podcasts and a newsletter and wallpapers and lots of stuff.
01:36:13
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So go check it out.
01:36:15
◼
►
Mike, can you believe it's just seven bucks a month?
01:36:18
◼
►
I cannot believe that.
01:36:20
◼
►
It's a great deal.
01:36:21
◼
►
It's a great deal.
01:36:24
◼
►
we appreciate you who have, if you want to find us online, you can, um, Federico's
01:36:30
◼
►
at space jam, but you know, he'll be around next week.
01:36:34
◼
►
He's the editor chief of max stories.net.
01:36:35
◼
►
You can find Mike across many shows here at relay and you can find his work at cortex brand
01:36:42
◼
►
and his blogging at the enthusiast.net.
01:36:47
◼
►
I am at 512pixels.net.
01:36:49
◼
►
That's where I write and I do things and vibe code now, apparently.
01:36:55
◼
►
Anything else?
01:36:57
◼
►
We're, you know, are you doing space jam?
01:37:00
◼
►
You do any comic book stuff?
01:37:01
◼
►
I'm not doing space jam.
01:37:03
◼
►
Um, I wasn't planning on doing comic book stuff either.
01:37:08
◼
►
You're just at home.
01:37:09
◼
►
You got a baby.
01:37:11
◼
►
Most of the time at home.
01:37:13
◼
►
You got a baby.
01:37:15
◼
►
I'd like to thank our sponsors this week for making the show possible.
01:37:18
◼
►
They are Fitbod, Mercury Weather, and Steam Clock.
01:37:22
◼
►
You can learn more about them in the show notes as well.
01:37:24
◼
►
And until next week, Mike, say goodbye.