Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello, welcome to Connected from the Relay Podcast Network. This is episode 590. Today's

00:00:13 ◼   ► show is brought to you by Surfshark and Ecamm. My name is Mike Hurley and I have the pleasure

00:00:17 ◼   ► of introducing to you the keynote chairman, His Highness Federico Vettici.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello. Hi. Hello. Thanks for having me again.

00:00:25 ◼   ► It's a pleasure to welcome you to the show.

00:00:27 ◼   ► It's only been 13 years, but thank you. We're also joined by annual chairman, Stephen Hackett.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Hello, Stephen.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Hello, my loyal subjects.

00:00:36 ◼   ► Sure. Okay. Yeah.

00:00:40 ◼   ► I don't know. Hello.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Okay. Hi.

00:00:44 ◼   ► We're back. We're back in more way than one.

00:00:47 ◼   ► No.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Reading from Reddit.

00:00:50 ◼   ► I beg you.

00:00:51 ◼   ► This is so annoying.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I'm begging you, Stephen.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I already left a comment in Notion saying, like, why are we doing this? I think actually

00:00:58 ◼   ► I just said, no, Stephen marked it as resolved.

00:01:00 ◼   ► It's not resolved.

00:01:02 ◼   ► This is not resolved.

00:01:03 ◼   ► I know. That's why it keeps coming up.

00:01:04 ◼   ► iOS 26.3 release candid.

00:01:07 ◼   ► I updated the latest beta yesterday.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Since restarting my iPhone 16e earlier today, I've been seeing bugs.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Mostly a green tint overlay and brightness instability.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Does anyone else experience this behavior on the release client?

00:01:24 ◼   ► Candidate? Release candidate?

00:01:26 ◼   ► 26.3 is out now.

00:01:30 ◼   ► So, I guess this wasn't, you know, super widespread.

00:01:34 ◼   ► It wasn't fixed in time.

00:01:36 ◼   ► There is a 16e downstairs.

00:01:38 ◼   ► I can go get it for real-time follow-up.

00:01:40 ◼   ► You really should go check.

00:01:41 ◼   ► All right. I'll be right back.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Here's the request I have of the internet.

00:01:45 ◼   ► BRB!

00:01:46 ◼   ► Especially for anyone from Apple who's listening.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Can someone let us know why a phone would go green?

00:01:54 ◼   ► Like, why is that?

00:01:55 ◼   ► Like, why is it going?

00:01:56 ◼   ► Why does this keep happening?

00:01:58 ◼   ► Why do the phones keep going green?

00:02:00 ◼   ► What I want you to do is tell me why and then fix it.

00:02:03 ◼   ► Because I am so tired.

00:02:04 ◼   ► Honestly, Federico, do you even remember why we talk about why Stephen brings this up?

00:02:10 ◼   ► I don't even remember anymore.

00:02:11 ◼   ► I honestly don't know.

00:02:14 ◼   ► I don't know anymore.

00:02:15 ◼   ► I think it was a problem for like a couple of months, many years ago.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Was it a problem for him?

00:02:21 ◼   ► Maybe. I don't think so, no.

00:02:25 ◼   ► I think he fixated on this idea of the green color for whatever reason.

00:02:30 ◼   ► He wanted to go back on ABC News.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I think he was looking for another viral hit.

00:02:36 ◼   ► He wanted another viral hit.

00:02:37 ◼   ► He wanted to be a viral sensation or as we call him, a viral sensation.

00:02:45 ◼   ► He wanted that again.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Sure.

00:02:46 ◼   ► And they didn't get it.

00:02:46 ◼   ► And now he's upset and he's going to keep trying to make it happen.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Ridiculous behavior.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Is he even here?

00:02:53 ◼   ► I think it's gone, actually.

00:02:56 ◼   ► Ridiculous.

00:02:57 ◼   ► How far away did he go?

00:02:58 ◼   ► Hey.

00:02:58 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:02:59 ◼   ► Oh, he's back again.

00:03:00 ◼   ► It was all the way downstairs.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Wow.

00:03:03 ◼   ► All right.

00:03:03 ◼   ► I'm going to install 26.3 on this.

00:03:06 ◼   ► This is way too long for this.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I'll report back.

00:03:09 ◼   ► It's a follow-up.

00:03:10 ◼   ► Yeah, you can let us know if it happens to you.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Okay, I will.

00:03:13 ◼   ► Are you out of breath?

00:03:14 ◼   ► I mean, I ran up the stairs.

00:03:16 ◼   ► Yeah, so, well, that's the question.

00:03:19 ◼   ► You ran up the stairs or you're out of breath?

00:03:20 ◼   ► I'm okay.

00:03:20 ◼   ► Are you flexing on us with your health?

00:03:22 ◼   ► I mean, I'm fine.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Where are we?

00:03:25 ◼   ► We have not left your stupid follow-up.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:30 ◼   ► We're still talking about it because I didn't want to move on without you.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Okay.

00:03:34 ◼   ► Listener Ben wrote in.

00:03:37 ◼   ► We spoke about birthdays and how sometimes they're close to each other.

00:03:41 ◼   ► That's actually happening in Discord right now.

00:03:43 ◼   ► A bunch of the hosts and moderators all have birthdays very close together.

00:03:46 ◼   ► But listener Ben wrote in about a friend who has it real bad.

00:03:50 ◼   ► February 14th is Valentine's Day.

00:03:53 ◼   ► February 15th is his friend's partner's birthday.

00:03:56 ◼   ► February 16th is their wedding anniversary.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And February 17th is his birthday.

00:04:03 ◼   ► You see, this is the thing, though.

00:04:05 ◼   ► Right?

00:04:05 ◼   ► This is what I was talking about.

00:04:06 ◼   ► I don't think this is bad.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Surely you're not doing individual gifts on each day.

00:04:10 ◼   ► No, just one big one.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Gotta be.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:12 ◼   ► So I think that this is a pretty decent situation.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Because, like, you would be, like, it would be unhinged if you were to spend what you

00:04:19 ◼   ► would spend if these were, like, months apart from each other.

00:04:21 ◼   ► No one's doing that.

00:04:22 ◼   ► So you would just be like, here, you know, here's one third of your gift.

00:04:26 ◼   ► I cut this T-shirt up into three.

00:04:29 ◼   ► I'm going to give it to you over multiple days.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Here's one third of a necklace.

00:04:34 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you've got to go one big gift in those situations.

00:04:40 ◼   ► I agree.

00:04:41 ◼   ► Federico, on Upgrade, we were talking about the potential upcoming OLED iPad Mini, which is

00:04:51 ◼   ► still a very interesting product to me.

00:04:53 ◼   ► I'm very keen to see how Apple will do that when they do that and what they will say is, like,

00:04:57 ◼   ► good about it or whatever.

00:04:58 ◼   ► And Jason and I were talking about, like, oh, imagine if they did nanotexture on it as well.

00:05:03 ◼   ► Like, wouldn't that be, like, an interesting product for reading at that point?

00:05:07 ◼   ► Like a nanotexture, like an anti-glare, you know, real nice reading device.

00:05:12 ◼   ► And I remembered that you had, at least, a nanotexture on your iPad Pro, and I wanted

00:05:18 ◼   ► to know if you still do have it.

00:05:20 ◼   ► And if you do, what do you think of it?

00:05:23 ◼   ► Not only do I have it, but I also have it on my MacBook Pro.

00:05:27 ◼   ► I did not know that.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Nanotexture is the only way to go.

00:05:31 ◼   ► I love it.

00:05:32 ◼   ► It's, well, life-changing is maybe an exaggeration, but it kind of has been for me in the sense that

00:05:40 ◼   ► I've been able, in the good season, you know, later in the spring and in the summer,

00:05:43 ◼   ► to just work outside without having to get angry at the sun's reflections anymore.

00:05:51 ◼   ► I love it.

00:05:51 ◼   ► You do live in a place where sun is a big thing, you know?

00:05:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:05:58 ◼   ► Like, it's less of a thing for me, I feel like.

00:06:00 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I, um, it's been, it's been honest, it's honestly been really, really nice.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Um, having the nanotexture both on the iPad and on the MacBook, I, I know that it's a

00:06:15 ◼   ► bit of a premium, uh, but if you live in the sort of area that has that kind of problem

00:06:20 ◼   ► and you want to be able to work outside, uh, without having to put together silly contraptions

00:06:25 ◼   ► around your display, I cannot recommend it enough.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:31 ◼   ► I wonder if they will bring that technology to more.

00:06:33 ◼   ► I mean, I know you've wanted it on a phone, right?

00:06:35 ◼   ► Too.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Yes.

00:06:36 ◼   ► I do.

00:06:37 ◼   ► I want it everywhere.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:38 ◼   ► The phone for when you're at the beach would be fantastic.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Um, especially now that they have the new, uh, the new thermals on the, um, on the pro,

00:06:48 ◼   ► uh, it'd be so nice to also have the, the anti-reflective nanotexture coating, but I, I don't think it's

00:06:56 ◼   ► going to happen on the phone.

00:06:57 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:06:57 ◼   ► I'm just thinking like, I'm just looking now cause I don't know like how much more money

00:07:01 ◼   ► it is to, to put it on an iPad.

00:07:04 ◼   ► So I'm looking at the 11 inch.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Uh, oh my gosh, only on the one terabyte.

00:07:10 ◼   ► All right.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Uh, it's an extra a hundred dollars.

00:07:14 ◼   ► I mean, if that's it, I put like an extra a hundred dollars on the iPhone, like why not

00:07:19 ◼   ► just do that?

00:07:20 ◼   ► You know, make a little, a little extra because it's that thing of, um, the original

00:07:26 ◼   ► the original nanotexture was physical.

00:07:28 ◼   ► It was like, um, etching, wasn't it?

00:07:30 ◼   ► And now the new nanotexture is a chemical process, which is why they can do it on a touchscreen.

00:07:35 ◼   ► I figure why not expand it out?

00:07:39 ◼   ► Like why not just offer it on everything?

00:07:41 ◼   ► Like if you can, like, I don't know why you wouldn't do that.

00:07:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:47 ◼   ► I would be super intrigued about it on a phone.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I have not experienced it.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Like I don't have it on an iPad and I've never had it on a Mac or an X4.

00:07:56 ◼   ► normal display, but I basically just work in my office.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Like I'm not on the beach or on the porch.

00:08:02 ◼   ► And if I am, if I do, if I am working outside, then I can just sort of deal with it.

00:08:06 ◼   ► But man, the phone would be so awesome.

00:08:08 ◼   ► And, you know, maybe that starts on the foldable or, you know, some high end phone in the future

00:08:13 ◼   ► and works its way down.

00:08:14 ◼   ► But I think it would be fantastic.

00:08:16 ◼   ► Have you guys seen the rumors that the Samsung, what the Samsung phone's going to do?

00:08:21 ◼   ► Like this privacy display thing?

00:08:24 ◼   ► I've seen something.

00:08:26 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:26 ◼   ► It's not really rumors as such because Samsung have, they have already had a press release

00:08:32 ◼   ► about a thing that they're making, but it's not on any of their products yet.

00:08:38 ◼   ► But the unpacked is in a couple of weeks.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Well, it's basically you will have the ability, I think, or the phone will have the ability

00:08:47 ◼   ► to shield parts of your phone.

00:08:52 ◼   ► So like the, maybe the notifications display from other people seeing it from an angle.

00:09:00 ◼   ► So like you'd get a notification on your phone.

00:09:04 ◼   ► And if someone's peeping over your shoulder on the train or whatever, they wouldn't see it.

00:09:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:11 ◼   ► I see this in real life all the time.

00:09:14 ◼   ► The screen protectors?

00:09:17 ◼   ► Most of my friends have these screen protectors on, which serve the purpose, but they also

00:09:23 ◼   ► make the image quality of the display so much worse.

00:09:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:26 ◼   ► But they all have it.

00:09:28 ◼   ► They don't care because, and you cannot see anything, obviously, with those things on,

00:09:32 ◼   ► but also the default, even when you're looking at it straight up front, right?

00:09:37 ◼   ► It degrades the image quality of the display, which is why I haven't done it.

00:09:43 ◼   ► And also I don't really care.

00:09:45 ◼   ► You know, I don't take public transit.

00:09:47 ◼   ► I work from home.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Nobody's looking at my phone.

00:09:49 ◼   ► But I see this done by regular people that lead a normal life, unlike me, all the time.

00:09:58 ◼   ► So I think it's interesting.

00:09:59 ◼   ► And it's another way to diversify, you know, with these phones that have become sort of

00:10:05 ◼   ► kind of boring.

00:10:05 ◼   ► And that's another way to, and if you're Apple, you're obviously upselling people on this, right?

00:10:11 ◼   ► That becomes potentially like a premium option.

00:10:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:15 ◼   ► So I could see Apple also do this if it's successful and actually works.

00:10:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:20 ◼   ► It's going to, is expected to be part of the S26, which I think.

00:10:24 ◼   ► They haven't unpacked at the end of the month.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:29 ◼   ► But would that be the S26?

00:10:32 ◼   ► They, I think those are normally the early part of the year phones.

00:10:35 ◼   ► Yes, they are.

00:10:36 ◼   ► And then the folding phones are the later ones, aren't they?

00:10:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:39 ◼   ► So yeah, we should see it in a couple of weeks time.

00:10:41 ◼   ► It's an interesting idea.

00:10:43 ◼   ► And I think would sell phones, right?

00:10:46 ◼   ► I think for the same reason, Federico, as you're mentioning, that people put those screen

00:10:49 ◼   ► protectors on, this would maybe be an interesting feature.

00:10:54 ◼   ► I would like to learn a little bit more about how they're doing it.

00:10:57 ◼   ► So I expect we'll find out a bit more about that when it comes out, because it's just like

00:11:00 ◼   ► I don't even, I can't even get my head around how that works from a display technology standpoint.

00:11:06 ◼   ► So very interesting.

00:11:08 ◼   ► While we're doing a little bit of follow-out, I just wanted to give a public congratulations

00:11:15 ◼   ► to Stephen Hackett for his tenure on the Mac Power Users.

00:11:18 ◼   ► If you've missed it, Stephen is stepping back from the Mac Power Users and is going to channel

00:11:24 ◼   ► 100% of his podcast energy interconnected.

00:11:26 ◼   ► So we can all look forward to future follow-up that we don't want.

00:11:29 ◼   ► But I, you know, Stephen, you did a great job on NPU.

00:11:33 ◼   ► I've always loved the show and I loved it, especially when you were on it.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And I will miss hearing you on the show, but I am really excited about your, I'm going

00:11:43 ◼   ► to say replacement, but that's not necessarily a nice phrase.

00:11:46 ◼   ► But the person who's stepping in, Stephen Robles, I'll say friend of the show, Stephen is a really

00:11:51 ◼   ► good content creator and I think it's going to be a real good fit for Mac Power Users.

00:11:55 ◼   ► So while I am sad that Stephen is leaving the show, I am excited for its future too.

00:12:00 ◼   ► So I just wanted to mention that on this show too.

00:12:03 ◼   ► And just make Stephen listen to what I'm saying.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Yeah, no, thank you.

00:12:06 ◼   ► And I'm super happy with how the last episode went.

00:12:09 ◼   ► And this coming Sunday will be the first one with Stephen Robles.

00:12:13 ◼   ► So I'm excited to hear that.

00:12:15 ◼   ► And I think they're going to do great things.

00:12:18 ◼   ► I hope that Robles gets a better first episode title than you did.

00:12:21 ◼   ► Stephen who?

00:12:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:24 ◼   ► That was a little bit full in hindsight.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Stephen who?

00:12:27 ◼   ► Whose idea was that?

00:12:29 ◼   ► It must have been David's, right?

00:12:30 ◼   ► It was David's, yeah.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Great.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Love it.

00:12:32 ◼   ► Stephen who?

00:12:33 ◼   ► Stephen who?

00:12:33 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Surfshark.

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00:14:15 ◼   ► I got big database news for you boys.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Oh, let's go.

00:14:21 ◼   ► This is what I was talking about.

00:14:22 ◼   ► Steven Chan and all of his energy.

00:14:24 ◼   ► This is it on display.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Apple Insider reported that Apple bought a company named Kuzu, K-U-Z-U, that made, quote,

00:14:36 ◼   ► sit down for this, an embedded graph database built for query speed, scalability, and easy

00:14:43 ◼   ► of use.

00:14:44 ◼   ► There's supposed to be ease of use there, Apple Insider, but you know.

00:14:47 ◼   ► Nah, nah, nah, nah.

00:14:48 ◼   ► Easy of use.

00:14:48 ◼   ► We all know that.

00:14:49 ◼   ► It's an industry term, Steven.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Easy of use.

00:14:51 ◼   ► You obviously haven't come across it yet.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Easy of use.

00:14:56 ◼   ► It's huge on LinkedIn.

00:14:57 ◼   ► I'm getting an endorsement in easy of use.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Easy of use.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Your mom got an easy of use endorsement.

00:15:06 ◼   ► No.

00:15:06 ◼   ► No.

00:15:07 ◼   ► Apple, of course, has developed FileMaker for a long time.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Did you know Apple didn't invent FileMaker?

00:15:16 ◼   ► It was a company named Foresight.

00:15:20 ◼   ► I think I have this right.

00:15:22 ◼   ► That then they died and were reborn and invented PowerPoint and spun FileMaker off.

00:15:27 ◼   ► I think I have all that right.

00:15:29 ◼   ► Anyways, could it be in FileMaker?

00:15:31 ◼   ► Could it be in iWork?

00:15:33 ◼   ► Something else Apple Insider didn't mention is that Apple used to have a consumer database

00:15:38 ◼   ► program called Bento.

00:15:40 ◼   ► Real people, real iWork kids.

00:15:43 ◼   ► This was also made by FileMaker, though, right?

00:15:44 ◼   ► Like, technically.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean...

00:15:46 ◼   ► Because FileMaker, whilst owned by Apple, it's not actually part of Apple.

00:15:48 ◼   ► It's like a...

00:15:49 ◼   ► Well, so FileMaker is...

00:15:50 ◼   ► A wholly owned subsidiary.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Yes.

00:15:51 ◼   ► Which is now called Claris, which is awesome.

00:15:55 ◼   ► It was Claris.

00:15:56 ◼   ► This company has changed names more times than anything I can ever think of.

00:16:01 ◼   ► But it...

00:16:03 ◼   ► Yeah, so who knows?

00:16:04 ◼   ► I was going to say OpenClaw, but...

00:16:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:06 ◼   ► But over the course of 40 years...

00:16:09 ◼   ► They speedrun it.

00:16:09 ◼   ► So yeah, who knows?

00:16:13 ◼   ► I mean, who knows where this will be?

00:16:15 ◼   ► They probably just wanted some technology behind it.

00:16:17 ◼   ► But then I was just sad about Bento.

00:16:19 ◼   ► Bento was really cool.

00:16:20 ◼   ► I mean, it was not part of iWork, but it was very much like iWork.

00:16:24 ◼   ► You could have templates or build your own...

00:16:27 ◼   ► Basically, your own databases.

00:16:29 ◼   ► And it integrated with Calendar and Contacts and other information on your Mac.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Bento was one of those apps where I spent a long time trying to find a use for it.

00:16:42 ◼   ► Because everybody was using it.

00:16:44 ◼   ► And I thought I should use it too.

00:16:45 ◼   ► And I literally could come up with nothing that worked for me.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Why I would use this application.

00:16:50 ◼   ► But it was really nice.

00:16:52 ◼   ► You know, it was nice to use.

00:16:53 ◼   ► And it looked good.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And it was fun.

00:16:54 ◼   ► And it had a wonderful icon of a little Bento box.

00:16:57 ◼   ► But I was no good at it.

00:17:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:02 ◼   ► Apparently, it only ran on Leopard.

00:17:04 ◼   ► That's something.

00:17:07 ◼   ► It lasted...

00:17:09 ◼   ► What was so specific about Leopard?

00:17:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:17:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:17:13 ◼   ► It's like, oh, we're tied into the mainframe on this one.

00:17:16 ◼   ► We can't run it in any other version of the operating system.

00:17:19 ◼   ► Wow.

00:17:20 ◼   ► It lasted a few years and then went away.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Apparently, there was controversy about Bento 2.0, which I'd forgotten about.

00:17:29 ◼   ► I think, you know, at first I was like, oh, well, there's room for this.

00:17:34 ◼   ► And then I had the same thought you did, Mike, of like, people don't know what to use this for.

00:17:39 ◼   ► And I think now, with the tools we have now, what a lot of people would use a program like this for, you could do in Notion or maybe even Google Sheets, right?

00:17:48 ◼   ► Like, I don't think a lot of people have the need for, like, actually a full-blown database.

00:17:52 ◼   ► They're basically just using smart tables.

00:17:54 ◼   ► But, you know, who knows?

00:17:57 ◼   ► Who knows what this will bring?

00:17:58 ◼   ► Keep an eye out on WWDC for what is it?

00:18:02 ◼   ► Stephen, Kuzu, Stephen, it will bring nothing you will ever see.

00:18:06 ◼   ► That's what this will bring.

00:18:08 ◼   ► This is not...

00:18:09 ◼   ► There is no user feature in this.

00:18:11 ◼   ► I thought that, and then I remembered.

00:18:13 ◼   ► Remember what Tim Cook said, like, years ago about AR, how he used it, wanted to use it for graphs and charts?

00:18:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:21 ◼   ► Kazoo is going to power a Vision OS version of Bento.

00:18:26 ◼   ► Wow.

00:18:27 ◼   ► That's not a Ricky pick.

00:18:30 ◼   ► It is risky.

00:18:31 ◼   ► If only this news had happened before the annual picks, yours would be looking real different.

00:18:35 ◼   ► It's true.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Could be true.

00:18:38 ◼   ► Johnny, I've made a car.

00:18:42 ◼   ► Oh, my God, I'm in love with this.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Kind of.

00:18:45 ◼   ► Well, you love it so much.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Why don't you talk us through it?

00:18:48 ◼   ► You love it so much?

00:18:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:50 ◼   ► I came across this...

00:18:54 ◼   ► I don't know where, but a YouTube video by an automotive journalist called Jordan Golson.

00:19:01 ◼   ► His YouTube channel is Prindle, which is, I guess, it's like Parker versus Neutral Drive.

00:19:06 ◼   ► I don't know what L would be.

00:19:07 ◼   ► What's L, Stephen?

00:19:08 ◼   ► You're a car guy.

00:19:08 ◼   ► Luxury.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Lyft.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Luxury.

00:19:12 ◼   ► No, because it's like Park Reverse Neutral Drive.

00:19:16 ◼   ► Low.

00:19:16 ◼   ► What would that be?

00:19:18 ◼   ► Like low range, like climbing a mountain.

00:19:20 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:19:22 ◼   ► All right.

00:19:23 ◼   ► Well, there you go.

00:19:25 ◼   ► And he had a video where he's walking around a showroom that had been set up in the Transamerica building in San Francisco and basically showing off the result of a long-term collaboration between Love From and Ferrari that was announced a very long time ago.

00:19:45 ◼   ► So, I think, pretty soon after Love From kind of became a public thing, it was announced that Johnny was going to be working with Ferrari.

00:19:54 ◼   ► And it is on Ferrari's fully electric car, which is called, I'm going to say, you know what?

00:20:01 ◼   ► Why am I going to say, Federico, how do you say this word?

00:20:03 ◼   ► L-U-C-E?

00:20:04 ◼   ► Luce.

00:20:05 ◼   ► Luce.

00:20:06 ◼   ► We're going to call it that.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Not what I would have called it.

00:20:08 ◼   ► It means light, by the way.

00:20:10 ◼   ► Luce is light.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:20:12 ◼   ► So, I guess electricity, light, that's what they're going for.

00:20:15 ◼   ► But anyway.

00:20:16 ◼   ► I don't think Ferrari, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, Steven, have actually shown the car yet.

00:20:22 ◼   ► I think there were, like, so this project, I think, has its roots in a previous, like, pure EV they had talked about.

00:20:34 ◼   ► But I don't think we've seen, like, the final version of it.

00:20:38 ◼   ► There may have been a car at some point, but currently, like, you go to their website, the Ferrari website, and all they're showing is the interior.

00:20:47 ◼   ► The interior.

00:20:48 ◼   ► So, and the impression I get from reading some of the coverage is this is part one of a multi-stage PR campaign, which we'll see them slowly showing all of it.

00:21:00 ◼   ► I don't believe that Johnny was involved in the body work, but who knows, right?

00:21:05 ◼   ► Like, we know that he did this part.

00:21:08 ◼   ► So, this is love from, so it's Johnny Ive and Mark Newsom, they kind of presented this.

00:21:12 ◼   ► And it is essentially going through all of the pieces inside the car that a driver would be touching.

00:21:21 ◼   ► So, they have the seats, they have the key, they have the wheel, the instrument clusters, all of the buttons, the switches.

00:21:27 ◼   ► And one of the things that Jordan Golsan is talking about, and he does a very good job, like, I really recommend people watch this video.

00:21:33 ◼   ► It's, like, 20 minutes long.

00:21:34 ◼   ► He is clearly somebody who is very good at retaining information because he was just explaining all of this in a way that he was clearly had been told it.

00:21:41 ◼   ► And one of the things that he's talking about is that one of the things that Johnny felt was when the iPhone was created, car manufacturers were like, oh, we should just do that.

00:21:54 ◼   ► And, like, get rid of all of our buttons and just make everything a screen.

00:21:59 ◼   ► And Johnny says, no, that's not what you should do inside of a car.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Like, you should use screens, but not only screens.

00:22:06 ◼   ► So, this car interior design features screens in interesting ways, but also tons of tactile controls.

00:22:15 ◼   ► More than you would see, I think, in any electric car on the market today.

00:22:20 ◼   ► Like, there are so many switches and toggles in this.

00:22:23 ◼   ► And also, I just think some of the ways they're using screens is so interesting.

00:22:28 ◼   ► Like, there's a clock on the central instrument cluster.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Like, no, it's like, what's the one you'd be in the middle?

00:22:34 ◼   ► Like, the shared display or whatever, the infotainment display?

00:22:37 ◼   ► There's a clock.

00:22:39 ◼   ► And the clock is actually like a screen, but a hole has been cut out on the main screen.

00:22:43 ◼   ► And they set another screen inside of it.

00:22:45 ◼   ► They have physical hands on top of the clock.

00:22:47 ◼   ► But there are buttons that look like Apple Watch buttons that you can press on the side of it.

00:22:52 ◼   ► And it changes what that screen will do.

00:22:54 ◼   ► So, maybe it could be a compass or a torque meter.

00:22:56 ◼   ► And it will realign the hands so there'll just be one hand.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Oh, it's brilliant.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Also, the speedometer and all that kind of stuff that sits behind the wheel, that would be the instrument cluster.

00:23:09 ◼   ► That is a screen with three holes cut in the middle and more screens that are layered underneath this kind of like domed glass on it.

00:23:17 ◼   ► So, they look far away from you.

00:23:18 ◼   ► And they have physical dials.

00:23:20 ◼   ► But, again, the information on them can change to be more contextual.

00:23:24 ◼   ► The infotainment center in the middle has this big handle on it.

00:23:29 ◼   ► It's very tactile.

00:23:30 ◼   ► You can move it.

00:23:30 ◼   ► Everything is like all aluminum where it can be.

00:23:34 ◼   ► The key is an e-ink display just for no reason, I think, other than when you then put it in the car, it changes color to show that the car is on.

00:23:46 ◼   ► And this is like, they just let him go wild, right?

00:23:50 ◼   ► Like, Ferrari were just like, this car is going to cost half a million dollars.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Literally do anything you want.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And he was like, okay.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And did all of it.

00:24:00 ◼   ► To me, this video, honestly, I wish there was a Johnny Ive version of this video so I could just hear him say it rather than hear journalists say what Johnny said to them.

00:24:11 ◼   ► But, like, this to me is like, I am clearly, and it is, I think, well documented at this point.

00:24:16 ◼   ► I am an unapologetic Johnny Ive fanboy.

00:24:20 ◼   ► Like, I think the man is a genius.

00:24:22 ◼   ► I think he's probably, I think he is the greatest industrial designer in history.

00:24:29 ◼   ► I think he is eclipsed anybody else that came before him at this point with the impact that he has done has had on the world.

00:24:34 ◼   ► I don't care that you took away your Ethernet port.

00:24:36 ◼   ► The man is a genius.

00:24:39 ◼   ► And I think when you see him kind of unleashed in this new world, I think you can see how he is capable of doing more than you think he is, right?

00:24:52 ◼   ► Like, people have this concept of him.

00:24:54 ◼   ► It's like, oh, Johnny Ives wants to get rid of all the buttons.

00:24:56 ◼   ► But maybe it was just in that scenario he thought that the buttons didn't need to be there for whatever reason.

00:25:03 ◼   ► But you put him in the car and he's like, I want more buttons than anyone's ever put in a car before.

00:25:08 ◼   ► It's amazing.

00:25:08 ◼   ► And just, like, seeing the material choices and the decisions that they went to and all of the different, like, mechanical operations and clearly all of the work that need to be done with all of the suppliers.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Like, this thing just looks fantastic.

00:25:25 ◼   ► Like, just truly awesome.

00:25:26 ◼   ► And I just think it's exciting.

00:25:29 ◼   ► And I also, it's kind of removed my interest a little bit for what he might be building at OpenAI.

00:25:34 ◼   ► It's like, oh, yeah, the man, like, he actually still has it.

00:25:38 ◼   ► So, like, even though that thing, I don't know if that is ever going to come out, I am a little bit more, again, like, renewed of, like, yeah, okay.

00:25:45 ◼   ► Like, given the right kind of set of instructions, he is able to do anything, I think.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And this is an example of that.

00:25:55 ◼   ► I think this is awesome.

00:25:56 ◼   ► It looks so cool to me.

00:25:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:25:59 ◼   ► I think it looks great.

00:26:00 ◼   ► I think it's a real pushback.

00:26:01 ◼   ► I put this in my blog post about it the other day.

00:26:04 ◼   ► It's a real pushback against the Tesla-inspired put-everything-on-a-big-screen that has just taken over the car industry.

00:26:12 ◼   ► I think screens in cars can be useful, and I think the way that they've done it here is a good example of that.

00:26:18 ◼   ► It's showing information.

00:26:20 ◼   ► They are contextual.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Like you said, you can change what they do.

00:26:24 ◼   ► But this thing still has tons of toggles in it and lots of buttons and switches, and I think that when it, you know, people who would be interested in this car and could afford it, I think they're going to have a bigger problem that it's a full EV as opposed to that Johnny Ive did the interior.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Like, I think people will dig this.

00:26:45 ◼   ► Ferrari selling a full EV, I think, is going to be difficult for that brand, but certainly interested to see it, and I hope the outside of it, you know, I hope that the design of the exterior of the car lives up to this because not all recent Ferraris are as good-looking as I think they used to be.

00:27:05 ◼   ► So, very excited to see it, and it does, it is a little bit of a look into the multiverse of, like, what if Apple had done the car?

00:27:14 ◼   ► You know, there was reporting that it was going to be, like, a Volkswagen van with no steering wheel or something.

00:27:19 ◼   ► This is the opposite of that in many ways, which I find very interesting, and so it does kind of reopen that sort of, like, question of, like, what would have been there?

00:27:32 ◼   ► I've been seeing a lot of people say things like that, like, oh, I think, no, this is not what the Apple car would have been.

00:27:38 ◼   ► No, but it shows that he could have done it, I think.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Could have done something.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Like, my expectation is the Apple car would have been mostly screened.

00:27:47 ◼   ► There wouldn't have been that many physical controls on it, I don't think.

00:27:50 ◼   ► Maybe that's why he left.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Possibly.

00:27:53 ◼   ► I mean, there is a quote going around, have you seen it?

00:27:56 ◼   ► Where he's like, I like now that I don't, it uses an expletive.

00:28:01 ◼   ► We'll bleep it, say it.

00:28:04 ◼   ► He's like, now I don't have to work with a ****.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Have you seen this quote?

00:28:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:10 ◼   ► And it's like, whoa, what's he saying there?

00:28:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:14 ◼   ► Seems like he's a little bit untethered right now, which I think is great.

00:28:19 ◼   ► I think that's great.

00:28:20 ◼   ► How do you think it is?

00:28:22 ◼   ► How do you think it is with Eddie Q?

00:28:23 ◼   ► Because he's on the Ferrari board.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Well, my expectation is that they have a good relationship, then.

00:28:30 ◼   ► Because he's not a thing.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:33 ◼   ► Well, again, they've been working together longer.

00:28:37 ◼   ► It might be newer people that came in.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Or maybe it's Tim Cook.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Maybe he doesn't like Tim Cook.

00:28:42 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Super interesting.

00:28:45 ◼   ► I'm intrigued to see what comes of all of this.

00:28:48 ◼   ► And to go back to what you were saying about this working, I think this is a smart move from Ferrari.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Because I think they know the challenge, right, of trying to get their customer base interested in a fully electric car.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Doing things like the interior was designed by Johnny Ive, I think is a good thing to be able to say to that customer base.

00:29:12 ◼   ► Because that's like, oh, this thing is like, this interior is like nothing you've ever had before.

00:29:17 ◼   ► Like, it will appear, like, you know, this is as nice as all of the Apple products.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Like, we've made the best possible interior that there could be.

00:29:24 ◼   ► You know, I think that's smart from them to kind of include him on this project.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Because I think it might entice some of those customers into checking it out.

00:29:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:35 ◼   ► It's really interesting.

00:29:36 ◼   ► It's going to be so fast.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Hey, Mike, can I get one of these and expense it?

00:29:42 ◼   ► I mean, you control the company card, so you tell me.

00:29:47 ◼   ► We cannot afford this.

00:29:50 ◼   ► No?

00:29:50 ◼   ► No.

00:29:51 ◼   ► No.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Not even close.

00:29:53 ◼   ► I do have some real-time follow-up.

00:29:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:29:56 ◼   ► 26.3 has installed on the 16e that one of my children uses, and it seems okay.

00:30:01 ◼   ► So, that's good.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Could you install a software update on someone's phone without asking them if you could do that?

00:30:09 ◼   ► I mean, they're a child.

00:30:11 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:30:13 ◼   ► I mean, they're already on 26.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Right.

00:30:17 ◼   ► So, I'm just doing them a favor.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Sure.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Sure.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Now, if it had been green, then maybe I would have felt bad.

00:30:23 ◼   ► Yeah, imagine that.

00:30:25 ◼   ► That's what you were thinking was going to happen.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Seems okay.

00:30:27 ◼   ► You could have ruined that phone.

00:30:28 ◼   ► The rumor wizard has returned.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Oh, yes.

00:30:32 ◼   ► Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple Intelligence features that were planned to be released in 26.4,

00:30:38 ◼   ► which is due out in beta in a couple of weeks, are going to slip to later releases, potentially even pushed to iOS 27.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Quote, the testing has uncovered fresh problems with Apple's approach to Apple Intelligence.

00:30:52 ◼   ► Gurman says that personal context is one of the features most likely to be delayed, and the app-intense powered action across apps is struggling, too.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Basically, the two features that are the most interesting are the ones that they are struggling the most with.

00:31:05 ◼   ► Here's a quote.

00:31:06 ◼   ► So, the new Siri sometimes falls back on its existing integration with OpenAI's ChatGPT instead of using Apple's own technology.

00:31:13 ◼   ► That can happen even when Siri should be capable of handling the request.

00:31:16 ◼   ► So, let's say the architectures are not working the way that they want it to.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Apparently, 26.5 may include new web searching and image generation tools that are accessed via the use of Siri.

00:31:27 ◼   ► So, we're looking like all of this is being pushed out.

00:31:31 ◼   ► Now, previous reporting has suggested that that means that the home part of the display, that ain't going to be happening still until this is out.

00:31:40 ◼   ► I reckon, I mean, I'm feeling pretty good about my annual pick right now.

00:31:45 ◼   ► And I've been saying this.

00:31:47 ◼   ► To me, it seemed impossible that if they had just announced and were starting to work with Google, that they would be able to get Gemini in and working to the point that they'd be able to ship all the features they couldn't ship.

00:31:59 ◼   ► I don't think any of the stuff, the big stuff that we saw in 24 will be in 26 at all.

00:32:06 ◼   ► I think it's all going to be in iOS 27.

00:32:08 ◼   ► If that, and I still am not confident that we'll see any of those features in this calendar year, but even if it might be in iOS 27.

00:32:17 ◼   ► This is turning into an unmitigated disaster for them, I think.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:32:23 ◼   ► And I think your prediction is looking more and more likely.

00:32:25 ◼   ► So what's happening here, judging from this report, it sure sounds like Apple is building all of these features on top of a foundation that is not really there.

00:32:39 ◼   ► The tale from this story is that, quote, that Siri sometimes fall back on its existing integration with OpenAI's ChatGPT.

00:32:49 ◼   ► So what's happening here is that the dual architecture that they seem to be very proud of, to the point of mentioning the architecture in interviews and other places, it's sort of working against the system, right?

00:33:06 ◼   ► So now you have this new Siri that can talk to Google Gemini, but also you have the old Siri that has a custom ChatGPT extension.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Turns out the model cannot make up its mind and reliably choose one over the other.

00:33:21 ◼   ► This is exactly what happens, if I were to draw a metaphor here, this is exactly what happens when you connect too many MCP servers to Cloud, for example.

00:33:33 ◼   ► And a lot of them have like similar names and the model gets confused because the model doesn't know, okay, I see these tools, should I use one, should I use the other?

00:33:41 ◼   ► And since these things are non-deterministic, sometimes it chooses one, sometimes it chooses another.

00:33:48 ◼   ► First of all, first takeaway, I think it's wild that they still have that existing ChatGPT integration after building a Google Gemini integration.

00:33:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like, if it shouldn't, if it shouldn't be showing up, take it out.

00:34:04 ◼   ► Take it out, what are you doing?

00:34:06 ◼   ► Just take it out.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Just take it out.

00:34:07 ◼   ► When you enable the new Siri, by default disable the ChatGPT extension.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Like, there's no possible scenario in which you're supposed to use both at the same time.

00:34:18 ◼   ► Like, two models, two major LLMs happening and routed by Siri of all systems at the same time.

00:34:26 ◼   ► That's not the way to go.

00:34:29 ◼   ► But also, remember, we know that, well, we quote unquote know that they're building this system where there's a dual, there's a double layer of some Siri happening on device and some Siri going off to the cloud.

00:34:44 ◼   ► This is compounded by Siri having to choose between ChatGPT and Gemini.

00:34:50 ◼   ► So not only do you have two models, and I'm going to try and make this simple.

00:34:55 ◼   ► You have two models, one on device, one on the cloud.

00:34:57 ◼   ► You have a router that chooses between them.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Then you have a second router that needs to choose the cloud model.

00:35:03 ◼   ► This is insane.

00:35:04 ◼   ► This description of this system is frankly insane.

00:35:07 ◼   ► It's like you were struggling to do it.

00:35:10 ◼   ► Anyway, why have you made it so complicated?

00:35:13 ◼   ► You already couldn't do it.

00:35:15 ◼   ► You have added so many if conditional blocks to this system.

00:35:20 ◼   ► We're like, oh, if this, then that.

00:35:22 ◼   ► But like, no, no, this needs to be much simpler.

00:35:25 ◼   ► Also, from the Gurman story, Gurman mentions that app intents are not working as expected.

00:35:32 ◼   ► Can we also bleep me?

00:35:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm ready.

00:35:38 ◼   ► Well, no s***, right?

00:35:40 ◼   ► It never did.

00:35:43 ◼   ► I mean, so first of all, it never did, right?

00:35:49 ◼   ► Because you showed off a thing that didn't exist.

00:35:53 ◼   ► But then you, I'm guessing, right?

00:35:56 ◼   ► I'm guessing here.

00:35:57 ◼   ► You tried to make it happen, fully knowing, I hope, at least fully knowing that the entire

00:36:07 ◼   ► entire, entire AI industry is not using something like app intents.

00:36:12 ◼   ► It's using something else.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Now you realize that not only does your model not reliably choose the right model, but it

00:36:23 ◼   ► also still, after two years, it still does not reliably choose the right tool when it comes

00:36:29 ◼   ► to app intents.

00:36:30 ◼   ► And to top it all off, they have chosen Gemini 3, which is a good, not great model.

00:36:37 ◼   ► What Apple wanted to do, from my perspective, required a great state-of-the-art model.

00:36:45 ◼   ► And Gemini 3 is a good model.

00:36:46 ◼   ► And Gemini 3 is a good model.

00:36:47 ◼   ► I wouldn't say it's a great model.

00:36:49 ◼   ► And if you ask me, they should have just, you know, sucked it up and given the money to

00:36:55 ◼   ► Anthropic.

00:36:55 ◼   ► That's where the issue lies.

00:36:57 ◼   ► They should have just gone with Anthropic, or they should have gone with either Anthropic

00:37:03 ◼   ► or just pay OpenAI the money for the state-of-the-art GPT 5.2, 5.3, whatever it is.

00:37:10 ◼   ► I am not surprised that Gemini 3 is not cutting it.

00:37:15 ◼   ► Because even if you right now go to Gemini, it is the model that, from my experience, hallucinates

00:37:21 ◼   ► the most, makes up web searches, makes up tool calling.

00:37:25 ◼   ► I thought people were really excited about the most recent Gemini.

00:37:28 ◼   ► These things are moving fast, right?

00:37:32 ◼   ► But if you pay attention to these things, Gemini 3, I mean, it's good.

00:37:36 ◼   ► It's certainly like, it's a hundred times better than Siri.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:37:40 ◼   ► But Claude is 200 times better than Siri.

00:37:44 ◼   ► And if you want to do these things at the degree of quality that we expect from Apple and

00:37:49 ◼   ► that Apple expects from itself, you cannot settle with good.

00:37:54 ◼   ► You've got to go with great.

00:37:55 ◼   ► And Gemini 3 is not great.

00:37:56 ◼   ► So this is a cocktail of compounding mistakes that are all, how do you say in America?

00:38:06 ◼   ► They're coming to roost.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Is that an expression?

00:38:08 ◼   ► The chickens are coming to roost.

00:38:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:10 ◼   ► That's what, now suddenly you're all having these problems together.

00:38:14 ◼   ► Because you built this entire system with a two-year delay.

00:38:18 ◼   ► on a house of cards.

00:38:20 ◼   ► You didn't pay enough money for a great model.

00:38:22 ◼   ► And you assumed that, you know, that this thing was just going to work with App Intense.

00:38:29 ◼   ► For some reason, you decided to leave the Chai GPT extension in and have a split model with

00:38:37 ◼   ► some things on the device, some things on the cloud with another system that needs to route

00:38:40 ◼   ► your requests to which of the two cloud models.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Pure insanity.

00:38:45 ◼   ► Pure insanity.

00:38:47 ◼   ► This is an absolute masterclass in why you do not show things until they are ready.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Yep.

00:38:53 ◼   ► Yep.

00:38:55 ◼   ► Because they are now stuck.

00:38:58 ◼   ► Right?

00:39:00 ◼   ► They are absolutely stuck in this scenario.

00:39:02 ◼   ► Because also, they have multiple times now said that they will deliver these features.

00:39:09 ◼   ► Which they should not have said.

00:39:12 ◼   ► They shouldn't have said that.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Because it seems like still, my assumption would be still, they still didn't have it done.

00:39:19 ◼   ► Right?

00:39:20 ◼   ► When they have time and time again said they will ship in the next calendar year.

00:39:27 ◼   ► I don't know if they will at this point.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Because it seems like they had an idea and they can't get it to work.

00:39:35 ◼   ► Mm-mm.

00:39:36 ◼   ► And because even in Mark's story, he says that even if they do ship personal contacts, it will

00:39:42 ◼   ► probably be labeled as a beta, which is fine.

00:39:44 ◼   ► That's just the way to do it.

00:39:47 ◼   ► But, like, will it, will it, how bad are they willing to let it be when they ship it to

00:39:53 ◼   ► have said that they shipped it?

00:39:55 ◼   ► This is just an absolute failure at this point.

00:39:59 ◼   ► Like, they should, it is unbelievable to think that we will be, I reckon, getting close to

00:40:07 ◼   ► three years before some of this stuff ships.

00:40:10 ◼   ► There's also a potentially institutional problem that I would be fascinated to learn more about.

00:40:17 ◼   ► So I'll give you an example about me.

00:40:20 ◼   ► And then I'm going to try to project that example about Apple.

00:40:23 ◼   ► So I've been building this system called Shortcuts Playground to let you create shortcuts with

00:40:27 ◼   ► natural language.

00:40:28 ◼   ► And I've been working on it for two months.

00:40:29 ◼   ► And I've reached a point where I think it's good to go for people, right, to use.

00:40:35 ◼   ► And I am going to advertise it and write about it by saying that it's not 100% perfect, because

00:40:42 ◼   ► it cannot be 100% perfect, because we're using LLMs, and they cannot be 100% reliable.

00:40:49 ◼   ► This thing is going to make shortcuts, and it's pretty incredible how I've taken this system

00:40:54 ◼   ► so far.

00:40:55 ◼   ► And I've created over 70 going into 80 shortcuts that I'm going to share at launch with people

00:41:02 ◼   ► based on this system, and they've been essentially one-shotted by Claude.

00:41:08 ◼   ► But there's still the occasional missing 10% of you having to go in and fix something.

00:41:15 ◼   ► These systems, by design, cannot be guaranteed to be 100% reliable, to be 100% perfect, because

00:41:24 ◼   ► they're not deterministic, right?

00:41:26 ◼   ► And I've seen this firsthand with the work that I've been doing.

00:41:31 ◼   ► Is Apple institutionally capable of accepting a reality in which they're putting out something

00:41:36 ◼   ► that is not going to be 100% reliable?

00:41:38 ◼   ► Now, you would say, well, yes, this is the company that shipped Apple intelligence.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Or the current version of Siri.

00:41:45 ◼   ► Or the current version of Siri.

00:41:47 ◼   ► As it's been for years and years and years.

00:41:49 ◼   ► So it shouldn't be a hard question to answer.

00:41:52 ◼   ► Like, the answer should obviously be, yes, we know that it's not going to be 100% reliable.

00:41:58 ◼   ► Sometimes you're going to get some weird results, but we're okay with it.

00:42:01 ◼   ► I just wonder if there's still a part of Apple, a part of Craig Federighi's team saying, ah,

00:42:06 ◼   ► but sometimes it's not calling the right app intent.

00:42:10 ◼   ► It needs more time.

00:42:11 ◼   ► It needs more time.

00:42:12 ◼   ► And the more time you keep wasting, the more the entire industry keeps accelerating.

00:42:15 ◼   ► So I wonder if there's also a perfectionist problem going on here.

00:42:21 ◼   ► At some point, you've got to ship it.

00:42:24 ◼   ► And it's not going to be 100% reliable.

00:42:26 ◼   ► Sometimes you're going to say, make me a note about this.

00:42:30 ◼   ► And instead of using Apple Notes, it's going to use, I don't know, day one or something.

00:42:34 ◼   ► It's going to happen.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Because that's how these things work.

00:42:37 ◼   ► But I wonder if there's still somebody at Apple saying, ah, but we could make it better.

00:42:42 ◼   ► And they keep waiting and waiting and waiting.

00:42:44 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:42:45 ◼   ► Where it's like, yeah, you probably could make it better.

00:42:47 ◼   ► But when you ship it.

00:42:49 ◼   ► At what cost?

00:42:49 ◼   ► At some point, you can keep delaying it.

00:42:54 ◼   ► But what's going to happen?

00:42:56 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:42:57 ◼   ► It's unbelievable.

00:42:58 ◼   ► It is like, this is a, by the time this is done, this will be an era-defining story for them.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:43:07 ◼   ► Like, we will refer to this forever.

00:43:09 ◼   ► It was already an award-winning, what do you call it on Upgrade?

00:43:13 ◼   ► The worst tech story of the year?

00:43:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:16 ◼   ► It's already an award-winning story.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Going for the lifetime achievement, I guess.

00:43:22 ◼   ► It absolutely is.

00:43:24 ◼   ► It really is just going for it.

00:43:27 ◼   ► It's going to try and be the fastest to Hall of Fame, like three years in a row.

00:43:31 ◼   ► It's just a disaster.

00:43:32 ◼   ► Like, there will be, I don't know, like the next generation of Steven, you know, like the Apple historian.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Like, this will be something that they will mark down, where it will be this, like, three-year process of this software that has been shown but never shipped.

00:43:49 ◼   ► And they kept trying to make it work, and kept talking about it as well, because they're kind of stuck that they have to talk about it.

00:43:57 ◼   ► And at this point, I just don't, I'm not sure that we're going to see any of them in the way that they said we would.

00:44:05 ◼   ► No, I'm going to live forever.

00:44:07 ◼   ► There's no one after me.

00:44:08 ◼   ► Okay, so you can do it then.

00:44:09 ◼   ► You can do it.

00:44:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I got it.

00:44:10 ◼   ► I got you.

00:44:11 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:44:12 ◼   ► You will be the next generation of Steven Hackett.

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00:46:13 ◼   ► So, guys, I'm an iOS developer now.

00:46:16 ◼   ► Oh, big congrats.

00:46:17 ◼   ► I'm so proud of you.

00:46:19 ◼   ► Yesterday, so the short version of this is yesterday, I ran into a problem.

00:46:22 ◼   ► I went looking on the App Store for an app.

00:46:25 ◼   ► It didn't exist, so I made one myself in a single afternoon.

00:46:30 ◼   ► That's the short version of this story.

00:46:32 ◼   ► Here comes the longer version.

00:46:35 ◼   ► So, I was building a shortcut for this week's issue of the newsletter.

00:46:40 ◼   ► We're sending issue 500 of Mac Stories Weekly this week.

00:46:44 ◼   ► And I wanted to build a special shortcut for the occasion.

00:46:47 ◼   ► And this shortcut produces markdown output, markdown formatted text that I wanted to show

00:46:57 ◼   ► with a nice preview.

00:46:57 ◼   ► And in shortcuts, you have a quick look preview action, but it doesn't render markdown.

00:47:03 ◼   ► It just shows you raw plain text markdown.

00:47:07 ◼   ► And it was especially ugly because some markdown were markdown tables.

00:47:14 ◼   ► And I don't know if you've ever seen markdown tables and their raw syntax, but they're basically

00:47:19 ◼   ► unreadable.

00:47:20 ◼   ► It's horrible.

00:47:20 ◼   ► I hate it.

00:47:21 ◼   ► They're horrible.

00:47:22 ◼   ► Especially when you're reading them on a mobile screen that gets narrow.

00:47:28 ◼   ► So, it gets all jumbled up and it's horrible.

00:47:31 ◼   ► So, I remembered, because I do the iOS review every year, that one of the new features in

00:47:39 ◼   ► shortcuts this year is this thing called rich snippets or like interactive app intents.

00:47:45 ◼   ► They're based on the same idea, which is an iOS app can bundle an app intent.

00:47:50 ◼   ► And that app intent shows up as a rich, interactive, floating UI.

00:47:56 ◼   ► This is exactly what people are speculating the HomePod with a screen will have.

00:48:01 ◼   ► This interactive...

00:48:02 ◼   ► Ah, yes.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Now I know why I remember this.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:05 ◼   ► Yes.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Yes.

00:48:07 ◼   ► So, I remember that API existed.

00:48:09 ◼   ► And I knew that it was not very popular.

00:48:13 ◼   ► I've only seen a handful of third-party examples, which I also mentioned in my iOS 26 review.

00:48:19 ◼   ► But I wondered, like, is there something on the App Store that lets me preview Markdown

00:48:26 ◼   ► as rich text using this feature?

00:48:29 ◼   ► And so, I went looking manually and obviously App Store search is a joke.

00:48:33 ◼   ► So, I started a deep, deep research with chat GPT and Claude.

00:48:37 ◼   ► And all of them basically came up empty and said, the thing you want does not exist.

00:48:42 ◼   ► That was their response.

00:48:43 ◼   ► And so, I was like, oh, that's a bummer.

00:48:45 ◼   ► But then a light went off in my brain and realized, well, you know what?

00:48:49 ◼   ► I'm just going to try and build one myself.

00:48:52 ◼   ► So, I started with OpenAI Codex.

00:48:58 ◼   ► This is their version of Cloud Code.

00:49:01 ◼   ► I'm one of those people that prefers Codex for coding and Cloud Code for everything else.

00:49:07 ◼   ► And so, I just started the old-fashioned way.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Codex in the terminal.

00:49:11 ◼   ► On my Mac mini, I was using Jump Desktop to log into the Mac mini.

00:49:17 ◼   ► I fired up Codex, used the latest model, Codex 5.3, extra high reasoning effort level.

00:49:26 ◼   ► And I just described what I wanted.

00:49:30 ◼   ► I was like, here's a bunch of documentation links for you.

00:49:34 ◼   ► Read these web pages on the Apple website.

00:49:37 ◼   ► Search the web if you need more context.

00:49:40 ◼   ► I want to have an iOS app that shows me an interactive snippet that renders Markdown as rich text with a nice layout.

00:49:51 ◼   ► And it thought for like, and it worked for like, I believe, 22 minutes in the background.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And it one-shotted the app.

00:50:00 ◼   ► Like, it actually put together everything.

00:50:02 ◼   ► It created a GitHub repo, a readme file, all the Xcode project file, designed its own fake icon for it.

00:50:13 ◼   ► Like, it did everything.

00:50:14 ◼   ► It's terrifying sometimes.

00:50:16 ◼   ► Yes, it is.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Like, it's genuinely scary.

00:50:20 ◼   ► Like, yeah, I find it, like, it's interesting, it's impressive, and frankly terrifying.

00:50:28 ◼   ► It's kind of unsettling.

00:50:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:30 ◼   ► Really.

00:50:30 ◼   ► So, yeah, it did everything.

00:50:34 ◼   ► So, I synced up the repo to my MacBook Pro.

00:50:37 ◼   ► I opened Xcode, paired my iPhone Air with a USB cable, clicked build and run.

00:50:44 ◼   ► No errors.

00:50:45 ◼   ► I had the app on my phone, and I opened shortcuts, and the app intent was there, and I gave it some Markdown, and it brought up a floating snippet with a rich text preview of the Markdown.

00:50:57 ◼   ► Like, wow.

00:50:58 ◼   ► Perfect.

00:50:59 ◼   ► So, I thought, oh, this is fun.

00:51:01 ◼   ► I mean, obviously, incredible that 30 minutes later, I have what I wanted.

00:51:07 ◼   ► But it was not rendering Markdown tables.

00:51:10 ◼   ► It was just using a default Markdown preview engine with no support for tables.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Because tables are not part of the John Gruber original Markdown spec.

00:51:20 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:20 ◼   ► You got to use, like, multi-Markdown or something else.

00:51:23 ◼   ► Yeah, or GitHub-flavored Markdown, you know, another version.

00:51:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:27 ◼   ► And so, I thought, okay, so I got to make some changes.

00:51:29 ◼   ► I have it on my MacBook Pro now.

00:51:31 ◼   ► I guess this is a nice opportunity to test the new agentic features of Xcode, the Xcode 26.3 beta.

00:51:40 ◼   ► So, I downloaded the beta, and I only have complaints to share.

00:51:45 ◼   ► Good stuff.

00:51:47 ◼   ► So, basically, I moved to Xcode, and it made it considerably worse.

00:51:54 ◼   ► So, first of all, Xcode does not have the latest 5.3 models from OpenAI.

00:52:00 ◼   ► It only has codecs 5.2.

00:52:03 ◼   ► But to make things worse, it doesn't let you set the level, the effort level of reasoning that you want to use.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Why is that?

00:52:16 ◼   ► Like...

00:52:16 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Because surely, do you not log in?

00:52:19 ◼   ► You log in with your OpenAI account.

00:52:22 ◼   ► And you can't use what you...

00:52:24 ◼   ► You can choose the model.

00:52:25 ◼   ► You can choose the model.

00:52:26 ◼   ► They don't have 5.3.

00:52:28 ◼   ► They only have 5.2, which is, okay, fine.

00:52:32 ◼   ► But they don't let you set the reasoning.

00:52:35 ◼   ► So, I was using the plain, non-thinking 5.2 codecs model, and it basically destroyed the code.

00:52:46 ◼   ► The snippet stopped working.

00:52:48 ◼   ► The preview stopped working.

00:52:50 ◼   ► No.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And I kept trying and trying.

00:52:53 ◼   ► And eventually, I was like, oh, this is terrible.

00:52:55 ◼   ► I'm going back to the terminal.

00:52:57 ◼   ► So, I went back to the terminal, and I asked, hey, another version of you in Xcode made an absolute mess.

00:53:06 ◼   ► Can you revert to the first commit in the repo and start over from there by adding support for markdown tables?

00:53:17 ◼   ► It was one-shotted again, just by doing that.

00:53:21 ◼   ► It feels like a big improvement from 0.2 to 0.3.

00:53:26 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:53:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:28 ◼   ► And especially, like, the moment you start using 5.3 with high reasoning, it really does make a difference.

00:53:37 ◼   ► What I did, though, I did something else compared to the first try.

00:53:41 ◼   ► In addition to having agents inside Xcode, Apple also did something else last week, which flew a little bit under the radar,

00:53:50 ◼   ► which is they made an official Xcode MCP server that you can use outside of Xcode.

00:53:58 ◼   ► So, you can install an official Xcode MCP from Apple.

00:54:03 ◼   ► It comes up a permission prompt that you got to accept.

00:54:05 ◼   ► But you can basically add Xcode MCP tools to Codex and to Cloud Code.

00:54:11 ◼   ► And it was beautiful.

00:54:13 ◼   ► What does that do, though?

00:54:14 ◼   ► I don't understand.

00:54:15 ◼   ► For example, it can build and run an application directly on your phone.

00:54:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:54:20 ◼   ► Codex ran the build with Xcode, connected, saw my iPhone Air connected over USB because Xcode was telling Codex,

00:54:30 ◼   ► there's this iPhone connected.

00:54:31 ◼   ► So, without leaving the terminal, it did everything, including installing the app on my phone.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Wow.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Okay.

00:54:39 ◼   ► And it was...

00:54:41 ◼   ► So, I went from idea to, quote-unquote, finished product for what I wanted in what?

00:54:49 ◼   ► A hour and a half?

00:54:53 ◼   ► And that, like, that is obviously scary, right?

00:54:56 ◼   ► It's quite scary and also addictive in a way that we live in such times where if you have an idea and enough technical knowledge,

00:55:08 ◼   ► I mean, I never looked at the code, right?

00:55:11 ◼   ► I was only technical enough to know that a feature was technically possible, right?

00:55:19 ◼   ► And I knew the differences between markdown and multi-markdown, but that's it.

00:55:24 ◼   ► And it made me wonder, like, what happens when we reach the point where this is possible without Xcode and without the terminal, right?

00:55:32 ◼   ► Without having to install these tools and doing what I did, but just something that is intuitive enough that it actually builds iOS apps for you.

00:55:44 ◼   ► Especially for, like, I'm not going to release this on the App Store.

00:55:48 ◼   ► It's something that I built for me because I wanted to have some nice markdown preview tool.

00:55:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:55 ◼   ► But there's, I think there's something to the idea of, again, we live in such times where this is possible,

00:56:02 ◼   ► where this kind of personal software can be created in an hour.

00:56:09 ◼   ► And it works.

00:56:10 ◼   ► And, I don't know, it's both exciting and scary.

00:56:15 ◼   ► And it makes me, once again, I spoke about this on App Stories, it makes me worry about proper app developers because I'm not one.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Maybe it's going to be fun, right?

00:56:28 ◼   ► Maybe it'll be fine.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I've been thinking about this a lot too because I have been, like, just dabbling to try and understand, right?

00:56:36 ◼   ► Like, I feel like Vibe Coding has been very much an abstract idea for me.

00:56:41 ◼   ► But I've just been making some, like, couple of personal web apps based on, like, hey, here's a spreadsheet that I have.

00:56:47 ◼   ► Can you do a better job of showing me this information?

00:56:52 ◼   ► And, like, what else can you, as a computer, work out from this set of data that I give you, like, sales data or whatever?

00:57:00 ◼   ► And it can make these really interesting tools.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And I feel like where I am at the moment is there's, like, two things where I feel about Vibe Coding and about kind of, like, wider development.

00:57:13 ◼   ► One, I think that this kind of idea makes a lot of sense for people building tools that no one would build for them, right?

00:57:20 ◼   ► And, like, this is one of them.

00:57:22 ◼   ► No one was making this and nobody would because, you know what, the market for this application is essentially probably 15 people.

00:57:30 ◼   ► Yeah, I was going to say 20 people, but yeah.

00:57:32 ◼   ► And so I think that the idea of there being tools that can build applications that are for super niche use cases is really good.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Because anything more complex, it's really hard, slow, and annoying to build if you are not someone who knows code.

00:57:50 ◼   ► Because, like, every time I want to make a change, I have to, like, okay, so I want you to do this.

00:57:57 ◼   ► And it goes, all right, and, like, 10 minutes later or whatever, here you go.

00:58:01 ◼   ► And I'm like, yeah, okay, but I want you to do this.

00:58:04 ◼   ► And it's going to go away.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And, like, from my perspective, it doesn't matter how good the models get.

00:58:09 ◼   ► They can't read your mind.

00:58:11 ◼   ► And they can't, and they won't be able to perceive what you might want when you don't know it until you've used it,

00:58:19 ◼   ► which I think is the way that a lot of people interact with software.

00:58:22 ◼   ► And so my expectation is the amount of work that it would take to make anything more complex than something you've built here, Federico.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Like, you know, a Notes app, say.

00:58:33 ◼   ► The amount of complexity that you will need to have to suffice the individual wants and requirements of users,

00:58:43 ◼   ► I think is going to be more than most people would have the patience to want to build.

00:58:49 ◼   ► And I haven't seen anything, and I don't expect to see anything in the even mid-future,

00:58:59 ◼   ► where these tools are going to be something that, like, people that don't listen to this podcast are going to want to do.

00:59:08 ◼   ► Right?

00:59:08 ◼   ► Like, they're just a little bit too fiddly, and I think people don't really think about apps the way that we do.

00:59:13 ◼   ► So, yeah, that's kind of where I am on it.

00:59:17 ◼   ► I think it's incredibly powerful and interesting.

00:59:19 ◼   ► I think it is very liberating for people that don't know how to build software for themselves

00:59:24 ◼   ► and now can build some, you know, mostly rudimentary software for themselves.

00:59:30 ◼   ► But I don't see this as a major disruption to developers en masse.

00:59:38 ◼   ► I also feel like it is irresponsible for people to try and make a business developing software this way.

00:59:48 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:59:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:59:50 ◼   ► Especially when you're dealing, like, I'm just previewing some markdown tags, right?

00:59:54 ◼   ► But I've seen people, like, actually vibe coding apps that require logins and customer data.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Or just if you're trying to say to people, hey, download my app.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Like, you should go and run this.

01:00:07 ◼   ► I think it's irresponsible.

01:00:08 ◼   ► I think people can use these tools.

01:00:11 ◼   ► I think that's fine.

01:00:12 ◼   ► But you have to know how to fix it when it goes wrong.

01:00:16 ◼   ► Like, I think you need to know that if you're going to try and sell it to someone.

01:00:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that's kind of my non-original set of personal takes on this stuff.

01:00:28 ◼   ► But I think it's shocking to use.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Like, I cannot believe.

01:00:36 ◼   ► Like, basically, one of the things that I did, right, is that I keep a spreadsheet of product sales at Cortex Brand, right?

01:00:43 ◼   ► Just like, each of our products, how many items have we sold each week?

01:00:47 ◼   ► I just said, here's a spreadsheet.

01:00:49 ◼   ► What would you do with this?

01:00:51 ◼   ► And what it gave me was incredible.

01:00:54 ◼   ► It was incredible.

01:00:55 ◼   ► It just built, like, a bunch of incredible charts.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Now, it got a bunch of stuff wrong.

01:00:59 ◼   ► And I had to, like, help it understand the spreadsheet.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Which is, like, that's my problem.

01:01:03 ◼   ► My spreadsheet wasn't really arranged in such a way that a computer could easily understand it.

01:01:08 ◼   ► But, like, it was, yeah, like, it knew exactly what it was looking at.

01:01:14 ◼   ► And it just built a bunch of stuff.

01:01:15 ◼   ► It built forecasting.

01:01:16 ◼   ► It built trends.

01:01:17 ◼   ► It's like, oh, okay.

01:01:19 ◼   ► Thank you, computer.

01:01:20 ◼   ► But at the same time, it's like, yes, this is what computers should do.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Like, if I have a spreadsheet, the computer is a calculator.

01:01:29 ◼   ► It should be able to do interesting things with that data that don't require me going equal some, because I don't know what that means.

01:01:39 ◼   ► The computer should do that for me.

01:01:40 ◼   ► And it does.

01:01:41 ◼   ► And I think it is very interesting.

01:01:43 ◼   ► But no one's going to make that app for me from my spreadsheet, because it's too, you know, the things that exist out there, they're like, oh, yeah, but you've got to go and sign up for Shopify and, like, sell all your products for Shopify.

01:01:56 ◼   ► And then Shopify will show you this stuff.

01:01:57 ◼   ► And so, well, I don't do that.

01:01:58 ◼   ► And I'm not going to do that.

01:01:59 ◼   ► So now what do I do?

01:02:00 ◼   ► Well, I just throw it into Claude.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Thanks to Federico's birthday gift.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Thank you, Federico.

01:02:05 ◼   ► You're welcome.

01:02:06 ◼   ► And then I can just see what happens.

01:02:08 ◼   ► And so there we go.

01:02:09 ◼   ► It's really, it's very, it's a very, we live in a very interesting time.

01:02:13 ◼   ► We do.

01:02:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:14 ◼   ► And I totally agree about the, don't use these tools to build something for users, like building something internal to your team or something like what Federico's doing.

01:02:24 ◼   ► I've got really no issue with, but it's the, you're dealing with other people's data or information or security.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:34 ◼   ► And you don't know what you're doing, right?

01:02:36 ◼   ► Like I've got really no, I've got no problem with a developer using tools like this to speed up their work or to, you know, help them bounce ideas around.

01:02:46 ◼   ► But I would not be comfortable building an app and putting it on the app store.

01:02:52 ◼   ► But I feel like, to use the phrase again, the chickens will come home to roost for those developers.

01:03:08 ◼   ► I agree.

01:03:09 ◼   ► Because they're going to end up in situations where they cannot serve the people that have wanted to pay them and that have paid them.

01:03:16 ◼   ► And that's going to become a problem for lots of people quite quickly.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Because customers will not care how the app came to be in that scenario, right?

01:03:25 ◼   ► They're now your customer and it is your responsibility that you deal with a problem.

01:03:29 ◼   ► So then we'll see what happens.

01:03:30 ◼   ► I envision a future of junior developers fixing the problems of LLM code.

01:03:37 ◼   ► This is the thing.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:40 ◼   ► We actually had feedback.

01:03:42 ◼   ► I didn't make into the outline this week, but I'll read it now.

01:03:49 ◼   ► Well, basically, it was, you know, I work at a big company with a lot of developers and, like, a junior developer is still faster and better than this.

01:03:57 ◼   ► And what was interesting about the feedback is they get better at a faster rate than just, like, one person slamming against the wall in cloud code or something.

01:04:06 ◼   ► There's still a place for all of that work.

01:04:09 ◼   ► Absolutely.

01:04:09 ◼   ► And there still will be, you know.

01:04:13 ◼   ► However, I mean, what I'll say is, how many years of school?

01:04:18 ◼   ► Like, are we starting at, like, me who knows nothing and a person who knows nothing and then that person goes to school?

01:04:24 ◼   ► Like, and I have, like, a four-year head start on them?

01:04:27 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:04:27 ◼   ► Right?

01:04:30 ◼   ► Like, in four years' time, will I be able to get there?

01:04:36 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:04:37 ◼   ► I mean, I know that I'm being a little facetious, but, like, and I do mostly agree with it.

01:04:43 ◼   ► That, like, for the time being, we're better, I don't think it makes a lot of sense for companies that make software to be like, I'll just replace all my developers with this.

01:04:53 ◼   ► Like, you're not going to go very far.

01:04:55 ◼   ► No.

01:04:55 ◼   ► I think that's bearing out.

01:04:57 ◼   ► No.

01:04:58 ◼   ► No matter what you read on LinkedIn, no one's doing that.

01:05:01 ◼   ► Well, because everything on LinkedIn is the LLMs anyway.

01:05:04 ◼   ► It's true.

01:05:05 ◼   ► LinkedIn is unbelievable.

01:05:07 ◼   ► That's actually what the first L in LLM stands for.

01:05:10 ◼   ► LinkedIn.

01:05:10 ◼   ► LinkedIn language model.

01:05:12 ◼   ► Well, I think that does it.

01:05:18 ◼   ► Anybody got anything else?

01:05:20 ◼   ► We're all good?

01:05:22 ◼   ► I don't.

01:05:22 ◼   ► We're all good?

01:05:24 ◼   ► Well, we'll let the Steve and LLM take us out.

01:05:26 ◼   ► Oh, wow.

01:05:27 ◼   ► If you want to find show notes and links and funny things on the internet, go to relay.fm slash connected slash 590.

01:05:39 ◼   ► There's a couple things I would point you to in particular.

01:05:42 ◼   ► There is a feedback form.

01:05:44 ◼   ► You can leave us a note.

01:05:45 ◼   ► You can make it anonymous if you want, if you want to tell us secrets.

01:05:48 ◼   ► And you can also join and get Connected Pro, which is the longer and ad-free version of the show that we do each and every week.

01:05:56 ◼   ► It's $7 a month, and you also get access to a bunch of cool stuff from Relay, including access to the Discord server and a couple of members-only podcasts that we do.

01:06:06 ◼   ► So thank you if you are a member, and if you're not, now is a great time to check it out.

01:06:10 ◼   ► You can find us all online.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Federico is the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net.

01:06:16 ◼   ► Mike is the writer at TheEnthusiast.net, and you can find my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:06:24 ◼   ► We're all big .net boys around here.

01:06:26 ◼   ► It's the best domain available.

01:06:29 ◼   ► I think it is.

01:06:31 ◼   ► For price and availability.

01:06:32 ◼   ► The .coms aren't available.

01:06:35 ◼   ► TheEnthusiast.plumbing.

01:06:36 ◼   ► I should have gotten that.

01:06:38 ◼   ► Well, you better go get it now before someone does something with it.

01:06:41 ◼   ► I do own Enthusiast.website.

01:06:43 ◼   ► That's pretty good.

01:06:46 ◼   ► But that was a domain that I pulled, I think, to Troll Federico many, many years ago.

01:06:52 ◼   ► And now I have it.

01:06:54 ◼   ► So good luck to me.

01:06:55 ◼   ► It's lots of fun, top-level domains.

01:07:00 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week, Surfshark and Ecamm.

01:07:04 ◼   ► Thank you for listening.

01:07:06 ◼   ► And until next week, boys, say goodbye.

01:07:08 ◼   ► Adios.

01:07:09 ◼   ► Cheerio.