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Connected

579: Put a Snack in There

 

00:00:00   Hello and welcome to this episode of the Connected Podcast from Relay. This is episode number

00:00:13   579. Today's show is brought to you by our fine sponsor, Ecamm, and the Relay Give Relay

00:00:20   campaign for a membership. It's our membership holiday sale. We're going to talk about that

00:00:24   too. That's who's bringing the episode to you. My name is Mike Hurley. I am a professional

00:00:29   podcast introducer. And I have the pleasure of introducing the Ricky Benchman, Federico

00:00:36   Vettici. Ciao, Federico.

00:00:37   Hello. Hi. I have been so professionally introduced today. I hope to not let the other co-hosts

00:00:44   of this program down with my professional introduction. We are also joined by Stephen Hackett.

00:00:49   Hello, Stephen.

00:00:50   Hey, boys.

00:00:51   Was that professional enough?

00:00:52   It really felt good.

00:00:54   Yeah, yeah. I know.

00:00:55   I think we've nailed it after 12 years together.

00:00:59   Yeah.

00:01:00   After 578 unprofessional introductions.

00:01:04   We've made the turn.

00:01:05   We've got there in the end.

00:01:05   Yeah, we've got there in the end.

00:01:07   We're nearing episode 600. It's not that far away.

00:01:12   I don't know.

00:01:13   It's crazy.

00:01:14   It doesn't... I don't feel like a... I don't feel like 600, you know? This show feels younger

00:01:19   than that.

00:01:19   Yeah.

00:01:20   Well, we're very close on upgrade to 600.

00:01:23   Yeah.

00:01:23   Because you guys cheat and don't take Christmas off.

00:01:26   Yeah.

00:01:27   And we've also done extra episodes, like for drafts and stuff.

00:01:30   So our episode 600 for us is January 26th.

00:01:34   Yeah. I guess, what's the... This is a good question. I think I know the answer. What show

00:01:41   has the highest episode count? It's got to be MPU and then Pen Addict, I think.

00:01:45   Yes. Well, yes, it would have to be Mac Power Users. I don't think it's possible. It could

00:01:50   be anything else because the show is 100 years old.

00:01:53   Yeah, because we just did 824.

00:01:54   824. My word.

00:01:58   Will the CMS break with a four-digit episode number? Find out in four years.

00:02:03   Yeah, I mean, it's a long time. We'll worry about it in three years and...

00:02:07   I remember people were afraid of hitting episode 404 for the first time, but it was fine.

00:02:13   Yeah, but like, I think that's a fair thing to be worried about.

00:02:17   Nah, man. Ruby on Rails can handle it.

00:02:20   I mean, our website, I think, has broken it less than that.

00:02:27   Hey, look, yesterday was all Cloudflare's fault, you know?

00:02:31   That's true.

00:02:32   I woke up, you know, the Cloudflare outage had already been going on by the time I was

00:02:39   like at work, and I'm in a text thread with some like IT guys in Memphis, and they were

00:02:46   all having a pretty bad day. And I was like, yeah, my podcast website's been down for four

00:02:50   hours. I literally can't do anything about that, so what do you want from me?

00:02:55   Anyways, follow up. Mike, you have a MacBook Air.

00:03:01   I do.

00:03:02   Can you remind people of where that fits into your life?

00:03:05   So, it's my main computer. So, what I'm recording on right now is a M something Pro Mac Mini.

00:03:15   But aside from that, all of my computing is done on an M2 MacBook Air. So, this is all of

00:03:21   my show prep, all of my email, everything that I do at my desk at work, and I take it home

00:03:26   with me every day. So, if I need to do anything at home, then I use that. So, it's absolutely

00:03:30   my number one computer. Such a number one computer. It's covered in stickers, because I'm in love

00:03:36   with this computer so much. I needed to make it mine, and it's fully mine, and I love it. But

00:03:41   it's getting slow, and it's chugging sometimes. This machine is slamming me down. I don't know

00:03:47   if I mentioned this on the show, but a couple of days ago, I came, or weeks ago, I came to

00:03:51   my Mac, and it just said, you've run out of system memory. You have to quit everything.

00:03:55   I'm like, okay, that's not good. That's not good. I think it's like a 16, it's either a 12 or

00:04:00   16 gigabyte RAM. It might be more, maybe 24 or something. I definitely would have gone

00:04:05   for a bit extra. So, yeah, I don't know what's going on with that thing. But Ingmar wrote in

00:04:10   and said, a while ago, Mike mentioned that the system stutters when text messages come

00:04:15   in. I don't remember that being the case, but that could have been the case. Is Apple

00:04:18   intelligence enabled? I had a similar experience on my M1 MacBook Pro since disabling Apple

00:04:24   intelligence is running fine again. I assume it runs the LLM to summarize notifications, which

00:04:29   is the stuttering. I'll have to check. I mean, honestly, at the moment, it's chugging just

00:04:34   to switch between apps.

00:04:35   Jeez.

00:04:36   It's just, this thing is, it's getting a bit old, which is a shame because it's not that

00:04:42   old. And I don't want to get rid of this computer. I have no desire to upgrade it. So, maybe I'll

00:04:49   try this. Maybe I do have Apple intelligence on my Mac. I don't know why. I don't think it

00:04:57   makes my Mac experience better in any way.

00:05:02   I think. It actually makes it annoying. I'm going to turn it off. Yeah.

00:05:06   That's actually a good question. Now that it's been, what, a year since the first wave of

00:05:14   Apple intelligence features came out, do we actually use it?

00:05:18   Because I...

00:05:19   I am a sicko who actually enjoys notification summarization on my iPhone.

00:05:24   I don't know what to tell you. I find it useful. How many times do you think someone in your

00:05:34   life has died? Because...

00:05:36   Never. It never... Look, those things happen and you always see them because people post

00:05:41   them on threads, but it doesn't happen. You know what I mean? I actually say that. I think

00:05:47   I did have something weird happen a couple of weeks ago, but I don't remember what it

00:05:51   was. But it also does the priority notifications, which, you know, it's fine. You know? But yeah,

00:05:57   I use it. I use it. I don't know what to tell you. I'm the only one, but I do use it. But

00:06:03   I don't care about it on my Mac because notifications on the Mac is useless and a disaster.

00:06:08   Because it seems that no matter how many versions of macOS they go through, they just refuse to do

00:06:14   anything to make the notification center window any better. And if anything, just makes it worse

00:06:20   every time. But yeah, I think I've just set a task in Todoist once this episode is done. I'm going to

00:06:27   turn off Apple intelligence on my MacBook and I'll, and I will report back if I see any change.

00:06:34   Yeah, I don't, I have it on, on my M4 Macs, but I don't, I don't have the notification summaries on

00:06:44   anywhere, my phone, any, anything. I don't have the, uh, priority notifications turned on anywhere. I don't

00:06:54   use their writing tools. So I honestly don't know why I have it on. I think I have every feature of

00:06:59   it off. Yeah, that's not doing, you're not doing anything. I like the fun Siri animation. And if

00:07:04   you have, I learned because my wife told me to not turn Apple intelligence on, on her new iPhone.

00:07:09   If you have it off, you get the old Siri interface and I like the rainbow border. So yeah, the new one

00:07:15   is cool. The new one is cool. That's enough of a reason. It's really, it's cool. It's cool.

00:07:18   You got three gigabytes of memory. It's cool. Even a car play. So, uh, what about you Federico?

00:07:27   I have it on basically never use it. If not for the cute Siri animation that I like, that's how they

00:07:33   get you, man. The Siri animation is like the emoji of Apple intelligence. You upgrade just because of

00:07:38   it. But I'm sure, I'm sure there are the Apple intelligence power users out there. Um, and I could

00:07:46   see an argument for the use model action in shortcuts, but not with the foundation model,

00:07:51   which had GPT. I can see, I mean, because I have made those shortcuts for, for max or readers. I can

00:07:59   see an argument for like keeping Apple intelligence because you get to keep the use model action in

00:08:05   shortcuts. But boy, is that a niche? What about gemmoji? You know, using gemmoji? Oh, I guess I

00:08:10   am using gemmoji. They're fun. No, no, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. What about image playgrounds?

00:08:18   I am not. No, no. Yeah. I tried. I tried last year, you know, created some really questionable

00:08:26   images and never touched it again. I don't think I've ever met anyone who uses these image

00:08:33   playgrounds. Like non-ironically. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like gemmoji. I have made some decent

00:08:42   gemmoji. My favorite gemmoji that I've ever made was a gemmoji interpretation of the trophy

00:08:49   that Tim Cook gave Donald Trump. That's the best one. I'm going to, I'm going to send it

00:08:56   in our group chat. Okay. I'll do a photo of it in the show notes. Yeah. That's the best one

00:09:01   that I've made, which is that one. Outside of that, I don't think. That's a CD on a pedestal.

00:09:08   Yes. I mean, that's as close as I could get. But like when you see that, you know what that is.

00:09:13   You know what I mean? I asked for a glass disc on a gold stand or something like that. If someone

00:09:18   can make a better one, go for it. It looks like if you were really fancy in the 90s and like you had a

00:09:27   multi-CD player and it like presents you the disc to put in, it's like, yes, here you go. Here's the

00:09:32   new Shania Twain or whatever. There you go. But like what's great about this gemmoji is if someone's

00:09:37   talking about this, like in a group thread or whatever, I can just send that and people know

00:09:42   what that is, which is great. You know, that's a great gemmoji. The rest of the gemmoji, not so

00:09:47   good. Oh, there's one other good one actually, which is an eagle with the body of an American

00:09:52   flag. Yeah, that one's good. Which I send also, ironically, to many of my friends. Yeah.

00:10:00   So, but I've said this before though, gemmoji I think is just a good feature. Like I do just

00:10:05   think it's a good feature and I think it got even better when they let you combine the two

00:10:09   emoji together, right? Like it's a good feature that exists. That's for me, you know, and I used

00:10:16   the notification summaries. I don't know why, but I do. Aside from that, like there isn't

00:10:21   really anything. And I just don't think that I needed an entire Apple intelligence, like AI

00:10:28   system to help me combine two emoji together. You know what I mean?

00:10:30   These are good. There'll be a link in the show notes for people to check those out. Poor

00:10:35   John. I'm just sending these gemmoji in our group thread. Yeah, I opened the connected thread.

00:10:39   I have any idea what's going on in it. Yeah, I don't know. It's just the first one that

00:10:42   was there and I just hit it. Don't worry about it. John always knows. John knows.

00:10:46   John knows. John knows. John knows. Anyway, back to the follow-up.

00:10:52   Oh yeah, we're doing follow-up. Maximilian wrote in. Yeah, we're still in follow-up. Maximilian

00:10:56   wrote in and said, in reference to discussing pinned conversations in iMessage on episode

00:11:01   578, all I want from Apple is for them to allow me to pair what conversations are pinned based

00:11:06   on my focus mode. When I'm at work, I'd love for my boss and coworkers to be quickly accessible,

00:11:11   I don't need them there when I'm at home or on the weekends. I think this is just proof

00:11:17   of there needs to be more work put into the pinned messages feature. That's a good thing,

00:11:22   but it's not what I would want, but I can see how that would be useful. But just let me just

00:11:27   do more of them. I don't need the circles to be that big. Let me do more of them.

00:11:34   Yeah. This comment really struck at the heart of a fear that I have about modern Apple is

00:11:44   that there's no one in charge of making sure, seemingly, no one in charge of making sure

00:11:50   that features are implemented equally. Like, Mail has focus modes that basically kind of do

00:11:57   this. They turn accounts on and off, but messages doesn't, right? You can use some SF symbols or

00:12:05   emoji and reminders, but you in maps to have a pin, you have like three icons to choose from.

00:12:12   Like Apple has these technologies, but they're not applied evenly throughout the system. And I just,

00:12:17   I don't like that. Uh, it, it, it bugs me that no one is paying attention to those details.

00:12:23   Seemingly. Well, I, I will be, I will, I will attempt to be fair to Apple here and say that like

00:12:28   there is some messages function in focus filters. Like it will actually, it can filter your conversations,

00:12:36   just not your pins. Right. So you can say like, just show me my coworkers. You'd set a list or just

00:12:44   show me my, all right. And that will turn on and off with focus modes, but it's not changing the pins.

00:12:50   So I'm agreeing with you, but I'm also attempting to head off the follow-up.

00:12:54   Sure. Okay. Okay. That's fair.

00:12:57   And Mathias wrote in and said, uh, the issue of iPad software as a third-party developer comes down to

00:13:04   revenue. If you make a professional tool for Mac OS, you can easily charge $50 or more, but history has

00:13:11   shown us that if we try to charge the same, I, the same iPad OS users revolt due to Apple's push to

00:13:16   make app store or app store apps as cheap as possible. Users on iPad OS expect everything to be free, or if

00:13:24   not free, something like $5 is the maximum that you can charge.

00:13:27   Yeah. And whose fault is that?

00:13:30   I actually don't know.

00:13:32   Whose fault is that?

00:13:35   Well, you could argue that 15 years ago, even more 17, Apple set a precedent and, um, and they,

00:13:46   you know, the, the, the, there could have been an alternative timeline in which, you know, three,

00:13:51   four, five years into the app store, maybe Apple listened and said, you know, uh, developers of

00:13:58   desktop class software. They're asking us to support pricing models that maybe also support higher

00:14:05   prices like paid upgrades, for example. And instead, very clearly they went into the subscription route

00:14:12   rather than, um, you know, desktop level pricing. And so I think, I think that sort of thing cuts both

00:14:20   ways, you know, um, that's the sort of experience that you get these days on the app store. And I think

00:14:26   it's quite ironic that Apple tried to make a push for desktop class software years ago on the iPad,

00:14:32   but the problem is that you don't really have the pricing structure. You don't have the, the sort of

00:14:36   economy on the app store to support a more classic, you know, uh, authored maybe, uh, level of desktop

00:14:44   software. And I think it's even more ironic that, um, you, you nominate for, you know, one of the finalists

00:14:52   for the app store awards this year on the Mac is Acorn, which is exactly the sort of experience that could

00:14:59   exist on iPad, but does not exist on iPad, partly because you don't, you cannot have the pricing model to

00:15:05   support that sort of experience on iPadOS. So just subscriptions don't count as the pricing model.

00:15:11   What about how many Mac apps, you know, including Acorn that don't have subscriptions? They have a

00:15:21   more traditional pricing system. They have a, they have a pay for updates, which you can do in the app

00:15:26   store. Sketch, I think is one of them. Where essentially the developer is hoping they will make

00:15:32   $50 a year or whatever, or whatever it might be, but they're, they're trying to convince you each time

00:15:38   to, to, to, to give them another 50 bucks for the, this year's features or whatever. Right.

00:15:44   Yeah. Well, like for developers, I actually think the subscription model is more, is, is better for

00:15:49   them. Like, but it's not what users want. Um, I think it's better for a developer to get $50 every

00:15:57   year rather than having to try and like bundle up a set of features to offer a price for. Yeah.

00:16:06   Yeah. But it's just, it's just not the way that the world has gone. It's not the way that people

00:16:11   value software, unfortunately.

00:16:16   Hey, speaking of software and developers, uh, we just Smith is hiring, which is very exciting.

00:16:24   There's a link in the show notes, but in short, uh, we are looking for a graphic designer to help us

00:16:30   with our widgets and wallpapers and some stuff in our other apps, pedometer plus plus and sleep plus

00:16:36   plus. Um, but primarily widget Smith, uh, looking at about 20 hours a week, we've got a whole thing,

00:16:42   a whole page you can go look at. But, um, if you're interested in that and you, after you read

00:16:46   through this and you feel like, Hey, my skills line up with this, uh, shoot us an email. There's an

00:16:50   email link on the page and, uh, we'd love to hear from you.

00:16:53   Yeah. It's in the show notes or widget Smith dot app slash jobs. Uh, I will hype it up here and say

00:17:00   like working on widget Smith, like helping design widgets for widget Smith, your work will be seen

00:17:07   by just an astronomical amount of people. Like this is quite a, I think an incredible opportunity

00:17:13   for a designer. So please, if you, you know, if this is the kind of thing that interests you,

00:17:18   uh, please reach out. We're very excited about this as a group and, uh, we hope that we will find the

00:17:25   right person. Yep. If your portfolio is full of Jimmoji.

00:17:32   Well, it's fine. It's fine. You know, like maybe they made it themselves. Maybe it's like

00:17:36   fake Jimmoji and they just generate their own Moji. They generated their own Moji, you know?

00:17:41   Yeah. I would love it if we could hire someone, uh, from our audience. I think that'd be super cool.

00:17:49   Super cool. So, um, yeah, check it out. Federico.

00:17:54   Hello. Uh, just quickly, I want to, I wanted to mention Google Gemini 3. Um, so this is the,

00:18:00   this is the latest, uh, release by Google, uh, Gemini 3, uh, 3 Pro is out as of a couple of days

00:18:07   ago. Today, they released a Gemini 3, uh, 3.0 Pro image, which is their image generation stuff.

00:18:14   What is wrong with company?

00:18:15   Do it on the same day!

00:18:17   No, no, no. You guys need to understand. No, you guys need to understand.

00:18:22   We need to understand. Please, help us.

00:18:23   You need to understand how this works in the scene.

00:18:26   But I don't like the scene. It's too confusing.

00:18:28   Well, I don't care. I'm just telling you how it works.

00:18:30   Okay.

00:18:30   Okay.

00:18:33   There are, as I told you, in total, if you count the big American companies and the Chinese ones,

00:18:40   there are essentially nine companies worldwide that can ship these big models, right?

00:18:45   And it seems that there's an ebb and flow to, to, to these companies and to these models.

00:18:49   And so every once in a while, there's a week, a specific week when a company decides, oh,

00:18:54   we're going to announce our next big thing, our next big model. The other companies to sort

00:18:59   of steal their thunder, uh, they also release stuff the same week. That's typically how it goes.

00:19:05   just sitting on stuff like all the time, like waiting for somebody else to go first. It's very

00:19:10   odd. It's very odd. I don't know exactly how it works. What I can tell you. So about Gemini 3,

00:19:16   I had early access to both Gemini 3.0 and the image generation stuff. Couldn't care less about the

00:19:22   image generation stuff personally. Um, seems to be quite impressive. Not really my thing. Um,

00:19:28   I also had access to the text model, Gemini 3. Um, I'm kind of disappointed by it. Um,

00:19:35   so this model seems to be the new state of the art in a whole bunch of benchmarks. Um,

00:19:41   there's a whole conversation to be had about companies now optimizing for those benchmarks.

00:19:46   like the, it's, it's, it's actually called the benchmarking, um, is often referred to like,

00:19:52   they try to specifically optimize the model for specific tasks that are then measured in these

00:19:58   benchmarks. So Gemini 3 is topping all of the benchmarks aside from coding, where as of yesterday,

00:20:06   OpenAI now has the best coding model in the world, like 0.7% better than Claude, but whatever.

00:20:16   Uh, I didn't really like Gemini 3.0. I found it very bland and I really dislike the Gemini app. Um,

00:20:30   I thought the Gemini was gonna offer some kind of integrations now like MCP or external tools. No,

00:20:40   it just works with Google stuff, which I understand. Uh, but I don't know. I found it

00:20:46   quite boring and bland. And then yesterday I was comparing some outputs between multiple models

00:20:51   and I don't know. I got better results out of, uh, out of Kimi K2 and, and Claude than Gemini 3. Um,

00:21:00   and there's also the classic Google problem that is now occurring in, in separate, like in,

00:21:05   in distinct ways, but it's the same problem, which is Google has too many similar things

00:21:12   that are powered by Gemini. Um, for example, I was, um, there was this post by Ethan Malik, um,

00:21:19   uh, saying that, uh, Google now offers four different ways to talk to chatbots about academic

00:21:26   papers. And, uh, uh, by my account, they offer four different ways to code with Gemini. So you have the

00:21:35   Gemini 3 chatbot, uh, you have Jules, which is a coding agent, you have Gemini CLI, which is a

00:21:42   terminal agent, and then you have Google anti-gravity, which is their new desktop IDE, sort of like VS code

00:21:49   fork. So this is the classic Google, you know, pretty much just like in the Google messaging days

00:21:56   that they used to have like four or five different messaging apps. Now they have four different ways to

00:22:01   use Gemini for the same tasks. So fragmentation will always be Google's issue. It seems. And look,

00:22:09   I'm sure, I'm sure that this is a really big and powerful model. I'm just saying that with the prompts

00:22:15   that I tested and sort of like a general vibe check, I found it pretty bland myself.

00:22:23   Is that not just like a thing, uh, for Google, for, for Google?

00:22:28   It is a thing for Google. And then there are like, there are specific issues of Gemini. Like for

00:22:33   example, Gemini is, has never been as good as Claude or, uh, GPT-5 at following your instructions.

00:22:41   Like for example, let's say you're vibe coding a simple HTML webpage and, and, and you tell Claude or

00:22:47   chat GPT, like don't touch anything else, but make this change. Like don't touch everything else is

00:22:53   working, but make this specific change. And chances are that Sonnet 4.5 or GPT-5 will do what you ask.

00:23:00   Like they will leave the rest alone and they will change that, just that specific thing that you're

00:23:05   asking about. Gemini will just rewrite everything. We'll just say, ah, yes, I have identified the issue.

00:23:11   Here's your new webpage. And you're like, no, I asked you not to touch the rest. So Gemini has always had

00:23:17   that tendency to do that. And it seems like Gemini 3 continues to have that. And yes, it's always been

00:23:23   like you have, like imagine the Venn diagram, like you have Grok, which is absolutely unhinged. And then

00:23:32   you have GPT-5.1, which is now trying to be a little more emotional, a little more like a 4.0. Then you have

00:23:39   Claude. Claude is the fancy guy, you know, the academic guys. Claude is like, oh, let me tell

00:23:43   you a story. You know, Claude is the more poetic one. Go figure. They ripped off a million books to

00:23:50   make it talk like that. And then you have Gemini, which is like supposed to be, I guess, like the

00:23:56   nerdy scientist of the bunch. I just find it pretty boring, to be honest. So give it a try,

00:24:05   I guess. But not really for me.

00:24:09   I really struggle with this, like, you know, it feels like people that are more plugged in

00:24:16   to this scene than I am, which includes you, right?

00:24:20   Yeah.

00:24:21   Like, I feel like there is a lot of like moving backwards and forwards between whoever's best.

00:24:27   I just feel like I have not got the desire or energy to like do that, right? Like to be like,

00:24:35   all right, now I'm going to go here. Now I'm going to go there. Now I'm going to go here. Because it

00:24:39   feels like it changed. Like it feels like in like two weeks time, there's a better one. And it's just,

00:24:43   it seems so annoying.

00:24:44   That's the beauty of it for me, because it's giving me that energy that I was missing from early app store days. And that part of me has been dormant for like, I can absolutely see why it tickles your brain, right? That like, here's a new to do app, here's a new to do app, here's a new, like, it's like that.

00:25:02   I started Max Stories because of that, because of that feeling. And I have been unable to satisfy that feeling for a long time. And so this, yes, it's frustrating. And it's a huge waste of time, if you look at it from that perspective. But there's also for some people, the beauty of it, it's like embracing the instability of it all.

00:25:26   Yeah, sure. No, I get it. But like, for me, at least the difference here compared to things that have come before, like those early app store days, it's like, if I'm just using ChatGPT, I'm just going to give it like a few months, and like, it will just improve again.

00:25:39   I think it's helpful with these things to, and I can send you, I can send you a short, I know that you don't like to read, but there's a really good article, again, by, again, by, by, by author, and he's a professor at Wharton.

00:25:56   Ethan Malik. There's this article titled, An Opinionated Guide to Using AI Right Now. It's like a very simple guide to like, okay, what should I use? And the gist of it is like, use any modern reasoning model, and you're gonna be fine.

00:26:13   What would that be? Like, if, like, ChatGPT were thinking or whatever?

00:26:19   I personally dislike ChatGPT.

00:26:22   I am a, I'm a cloud person.

00:26:26   Oh, I saw you posting about this. You didn't like the personality. You know, it's got new buttons where you can like...

00:26:31   Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's not just about that. I like, I, I appreciate the, um, more of the, uh, anthropic mindset of like, uh, reject slop as much as possible, like images and fake videos and stuff like that.

00:26:45   Yeah, but I don't, well, for one, Sora's not here.

00:26:48   Yeah, but like, general, I get, for my taste, better vibes from anthropic than open AI.

00:26:56   Okay.

00:26:58   Um, but the gist of the article is, pick a reasoning model today. You're gonna be fine. And then, to really evaluate how AI is changing, check in twice a year. Like, observe the progress every, every six months, and you're gonna see the progress. If you just stay tuned in on a week-by-week basis, and you don't want to, you're gonna lose your mind. Instead, check in twice a year, every six months.

00:27:21   Well, to like, see what, what else is out there.

00:27:24   Yeah, yeah.

00:27:25   Yeah, okay. I can see that. That's pretty fair.

00:27:28   But yes, Gemini 3 is out. Not really for me. Some people like it. I don't.

00:27:34   This episode of Connected is brought to you by Ecamm. If you're a Mac user and you're creating video or podcast, you should check out Ecamm.

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00:29:45   Are you ready for iPhone Pocket, the Mike Hurley review?

00:29:48   I am so glad that you pivoted away from tvOS to this.

00:29:52   Yeah.

00:29:52   I'm now about phone wearing, even though I don't do it, but I am interested in it.

00:29:57   So, we're going to start off with some follow-up.

00:30:00   We've got to put this through in a bunch of different ways.

00:30:03   So, I'm going to start with Joey.

00:30:05   The phrase, a piece of cloth, that Apple refer to the iPhone Pocket in their press release, actually is referring to a specific series of art pieces by that name created by Issey Miyake.

00:30:21   So, I will put a link in the show notes to a collection at the Met, which is showing this.

00:30:28   It's essentially, this was an idea of creating fashion and clothing with kind of this like woven material process.

00:30:40   So, I'll actually, I'll go to what Alex is saying here.

00:30:43   So, Alex is another person who wrote in.

00:30:44   A piece of cloth, or APOC, was the creation of a garment that is cut directly from a single piece of woven fabric.

00:30:53   This is an Issey Miyake term, not an Apple term.

00:30:58   The show that this innovation originally appeared in demonstrated a new way of creating a garment through 3D knitting.

00:31:05   Garments are woven as one piece and then cut to form.

00:31:08   And the models in Apple's press release are wearing a piece of cloth, or APOC, Able, which is a line by Issey Miyake.

00:31:15   And I actually, I wish I would have thought of this, because I follow someone on Instagram who creates, he's like a fashion designer.

00:31:25   And he, he makes product in Japan.

00:31:29   And there is like a way that these, that T-shirts, there are these really expensive T-shirts that you can buy from Japan that are made on these like loom, like weaving machines, where it weaves them as one continuous thing.

00:31:44   And apparently, I think it's called like ring spun or something.

00:31:47   I may have just made that up.

00:31:48   Anyway, there's like, there's a term for it.

00:31:50   Apparently, it makes for a nicer feeling piece of clothing.

00:31:55   And so that's what this is.

00:31:57   The problem is, they should have just said this.

00:32:01   Why?

00:32:02   Like, so a piece of cloth is in quotation marks in Apple's press release.

00:32:06   But I thought, like everybody else did, assumably, all the people, except for the people that know about this, that that was just like a quote from Issey Miyake of like, this is what our inspiration was.

00:32:17   It was a quote, it was a piece of cloth.

00:32:20   But no, it's actually referring to a thing that the titular founder of the company created as an art piece, but then turned into a way in which some of their clothing is made.

00:32:32   They used the same process in the creation of the iPhone pocket.

00:32:37   So it is from this 3D knitted piece.

00:32:40   So it's like this, I guess it's just, I can kind of see it when I look at it, that it's essentially like, it's just made in one piece and then sewn together, I guess is the way that it's done.

00:32:50   Interesting.

00:32:52   The context would have been great.

00:32:55   But maybe this shows something about like, they are creating this product for a specific type of person that maybe would just know this.

00:33:06   I mean, this is kind of getting back to some of what we were talking about last time as to who is this for.

00:33:12   By the way, I have been checking throughout the week.

00:33:14   I have not seen any photos of Ariana Grande with an iPhone pocket.

00:33:21   That was the bet that I made.

00:33:22   And also, by the way, because while I've been looking at Ariana Grande's stories throughout the last few days, she's using an iPhone 16 Pro.

00:33:33   Oh, she's been busy.

00:33:36   Somebody get Ariana Grande a new phone.

00:33:38   All right.

00:33:39   Someone do this for her.

00:33:41   So maybe, or maybe she likes a 16.

00:33:43   I don't know.

00:33:43   But I feel like, I feel like she would, she would also dig the new phone too.

00:33:46   So I've had my iPhone pocket for like five or six days.

00:33:53   This is not a complicated product.

00:33:57   Like, well, it's, there is no, it's a piece of cloth.

00:34:03   So it is a piece of cloth.

00:34:04   Yeah.

00:34:05   It is, you know, there, there isn't going to like, I don't have for you,

00:34:10   like a grand revelation about this item.

00:34:13   But it is an effective item at doing what it should do.

00:34:20   So I have the short version.

00:34:22   Um, I could see that the long version of this would be more useful to most people than the short version, because that's the one you can actually wear around your body.

00:34:32   And you could still do with that one.

00:34:34   And you could do with that one, what you do with this one, which is like tie it onto things like realistically, the short version, you would either carry it like a, like a purse in your hand, or you can kind of loop it around itself and tie it onto things.

00:34:47   You could do with the long version, but I, I knew I would, that this wasn't going to be something that I would wear.

00:34:54   So I didn't, and I didn't want to spend the money.

00:34:56   And also the colors were boring.

00:34:57   Oh, also, by the way, it's all sold out.

00:35:00   This all sold out.

00:35:01   So like, there is this funny thing of like, there are lots of takes and lots of criticisms, but also they sold all of them.

00:35:07   So, you know, take that for what it is, I guess.

00:35:11   Um, the, there, this is a well-made item.

00:35:16   I think that it looks good.

00:35:18   The color that I got is good.

00:35:20   Uh, I think that it can be worn very stylishly.

00:35:24   Um, if you search for iPhone pocket on Instagram, you see lots of very stylish, fashionable people making this thing look cool.

00:35:32   If you ask me, but still though, if you, if you looked at this,

00:35:37   and thought it was ridiculous, I do not think there is anything that could convince you that it is not ridiculous, right?

00:35:43   Like, I, I don't think that there is anything to this product that can, that would make you like, feel like, oh, actually I could be turned around on this.

00:35:52   Like, I, I don't, I think if you had a very, um, harsh reaction to it, that nothing's going to, going to change that.

00:36:00   Uh, putting the iPhone into the, into the iPhone pocket takes a little bit of getting used to.

00:36:07   But once you do, I can very easily see how something like this could become second nature to someone.

00:36:13   Like in the way that like, I have a pair of chinos that have a particular pocket for my iPhone inside of the pocket.

00:36:19   So like inside of my main pocket, there's a little zip and you unzip the zipper and put your phone in and zip it in.

00:36:24   So your phone's not going to fall out of your pocket.

00:36:26   When I first started doing that, it took me a while to get used to the action of unzip, take out, put back in, zip up.

00:36:34   But now I don't even think about it, right?

00:36:36   Like it's just become something my hands do.

00:36:39   I feel like that the same thing would happen here.

00:36:41   You kind of, you take your phone, you kind of like slide it into one side in the, in the opening, and then you can essentially do the same on the other.

00:36:50   And it just falls into the, into the, into the, into the pocket itself.

00:36:55   Getting it out is super easy.

00:36:56   You just kind of squeeze the bottom and it comes out.

00:36:58   It reminds me of John Syracuse used to put his phone in this, in a little sock.

00:37:03   If anybody may have seen him do that.

00:37:05   I know we've seen him do that.

00:37:06   And he's spoken about it a lot.

00:37:07   You know what, Syracuse, this is probably for you.

00:37:10   You know what I mean?

00:37:11   I think, I actually, I don't know if, I don't recall what he thought of this product, but I actually, in using it, this is, this is definitely for John Syracuse.

00:37:19   So the material feels nice and it's very stretchy, like it's elasticated.

00:37:25   So you can put other stuff in this thing with your iPhone.

00:37:29   I put my AirPods in there.

00:37:30   I can put a wallet in there and it all just stretches around it.

00:37:33   Like a little snack.

00:37:34   And then you've got, you could put a snack in there.

00:37:37   I put, I put a sidekick pocket notepad in there, which was fun.

00:37:43   Put the orange notepad inside of the orange iPhone pocket.

00:37:45   That went well for me.

00:37:46   It's, you know, it, it, you can fit more in there.

00:37:50   And like, so I imagined I would, you know, I could put this in like a travel kit or something.

00:37:56   You know, like if I'm on a plane and then I could like hang my phone up and like I could charge it or whatever.

00:38:01   You know, like I thought like that in me trying to imagine where am I going to use this thing that I now own?

00:38:07   Like I could imagine, you know, or like you're in a tiny hotel room and there's nowhere to put your phone.

00:38:13   You could like hang it from a lamp or something.

00:38:15   I don't know.

00:38:15   Like it's hangable.

00:38:17   Your phone becomes hangable and you could just put your phone in upside down and plug it in.

00:38:21   You know, you could do something like that with it.

00:38:22   The packaging for the, for the, for the iPhone pocket was quite interesting.

00:38:26   It's like a very, it comes in a very long package, like very long.

00:38:32   And in, so like, it's like this kind of like envelope with a handle on the top and the box that that comes in had a space for the handle that it was hung on.

00:38:42   The cardboard box was really heavy, but it was just cardboard.

00:38:47   But there was just like so much cardboard in this box to be able to kind of like hang it properly.

00:38:53   The front of the packaging has got a huge Isamayaki logo.

00:38:56   And on the reverse side is like all of the Apple stuff that you would find on the back of an Apple product.

00:39:02   So their logo, all the barcodes and like the, the, the text that they put, like the regulatory text, that was all Apple.

00:39:09   So that was interesting.

00:39:10   It was like a combo mixture between the two.

00:39:12   So my ultimate feeling on this product, the iPhone pocket is the same as I felt about it last week.

00:39:19   Right.

00:39:19   Which is this looks interesting.

00:39:21   I find it interesting.

00:39:24   And I'm, and I mean, always intrigued and excited by Apple doing things that are weird.

00:39:28   Like, because I care about looking at this company, right?

00:39:32   Like I've made a career out of it.

00:39:34   Like we all have.

00:39:35   And trying to understand the decisions that they make is kind of one of the things that we all enjoy the most.

00:39:41   And I, you know, I've been, I've found it interesting in the, in over the last week or so to try and think about why have they done this?

00:39:49   And the main thing that I came to is the same as I did last time, which is just like, there are just enough people, including Alan Dimeshoff, who are very focused on fashion at Apple.

00:39:58   And the idea of being able to do this collaboration with a very well-renowned fashion house was intriguing to them.

00:40:04   You know, maybe Semiaki came to them with it.

00:40:07   Maybe Apple went to them with it.

00:40:08   But like, there is this fashion thing that they're doing.

00:40:11   And clearly, Apple have a new obsession of iPhone wearing.

00:40:15   It is something that they are very focused on.

00:40:17   They, they are, they are finding many ways for people to be able to display their iPhone.

00:40:23   Like that is like a thing that they want people to do.

00:40:26   And this is just another example of that.

00:40:29   So there is everything that you need to know about this product.

00:40:35   You can understand from an image of it, other than the way it feels and the way it feels, it feels like a very nice, very well-made thing.

00:40:44   Does it feel as expensive as the price?

00:40:46   No, but that is fashion, right?

00:40:49   Like you, you, you just have to feel happy about what you've bought.

00:40:53   And, and, you know, if you care about such things, nobody else can buy it now.

00:40:58   So if you have one, you have one.

00:41:00   So that's my review of the iPhone pocket.

00:41:02   Wow.

00:41:04   Thank you.

00:41:06   I'm assuming the answer to this is no, but any questions?

00:41:09   No.

00:41:10   Will you both just be honest?

00:41:12   Will you both just check in RSS?

00:41:13   You can be honest with me.

00:41:16   No, you know, thanks for taking one for the team.

00:41:19   I have 15 unread items in my RSS.

00:41:22   That's how many I have.

00:41:24   Did you have 25 full minutes ago?

00:41:28   No, I was actually just staring blankly at the screen.

00:41:32   Just, just taking in the thoughts.

00:41:35   Big, big review.

00:41:37   Big review.

00:41:38   29.

00:41:38   I have no reaction, honestly.

00:41:40   That is perfectly fine.

00:41:42   It's that time of year again.

00:41:44   Apple have announced the finalists for the App Store Awards.

00:41:48   I want to run through these real quick.

00:41:50   This has always been a bit of a mixed bag, this, the awards thing.

00:41:55   A mixed pocket.

00:41:55   I mean, there were a year, indeed.

00:41:57   There were years where none of us had ever heard of any of the apps, which I don't think

00:42:03   is a bad thing, but it was just a thing.

00:42:06   So, iPhone App of the Year finalists this year.

00:42:08   BandLab, which is a musician, like a music-making app.

00:42:13   Ladder, which is a strength training app.

00:42:15   And Teemo, Taimo, which is a to-do app, which I'd never heard of.

00:42:19   Any of you ever heard of Taimo?

00:42:21   Nope.

00:42:22   Nope.

00:42:22   Apparently, they won an ADA, or they were a finalist for an ADA last year.

00:42:27   I'm going to look at this one, because I like to do apps, so that's one to look at.

00:42:36   iPhone Game of the Year, Capybara Go, Pokemon TCG Pocket, and Thronefall.

00:42:42   Thronefall, I wasn't familiar with.

00:42:46   It looks kind of like a tower defense-y kind of game.

00:42:50   Yeah.

00:42:51   A Little Kingdom.

00:42:51   Never seen it before.

00:42:53   No, but it looks nice.

00:42:54   The other ones I have heard of.

00:42:57   iPad App of the Year, Detail, which is worked on by one of the True Sons.

00:43:02   One of the Vortex kids works at Detail, which is awesome.

00:43:04   Which is a, it's like a content creation app.

00:43:08   You can do, like, captions and editing and that kind of stuff.

00:43:11   Grain Touch, which is a art, like, drawing app.

00:43:17   And Structured, which is a, I don't know what this one is.

00:43:20   Yeah, excellent app.

00:43:22   Structured?

00:43:23   Oh, you like that one?

00:43:24   Yeah, I don't personally use it.

00:43:27   Devon, who works at Mac Stories, swears by Structured.

00:43:30   He really, really loves Structured.

00:43:33   A daily planner app.

00:43:34   Yeah, yeah.

00:43:35   It's built for the kind of person who likes to, what's it called?

00:43:39   The practice of, there's a word, time blocking.

00:43:44   Is that?

00:43:44   Time blocking.

00:43:45   Time blocking, okay.

00:43:45   Time blocking.

00:43:46   Yeah, yeah.

00:43:47   It lets you plan everything, integrates with a whole bunch of things.

00:43:50   It's on iPad, Mac, Apple Watch.

00:43:52   They have a web app now.

00:43:54   Integrates with calendar and reminders made by a really, really good indie team who recently released for iOS 26, Awake, which is a smart alarm clock that's based on the new alarm kit feature.

00:44:12   Awake also integrates with Structured.

00:44:15   So they have that sort of two-way communication between their apps.

00:44:19   Great team.

00:44:20   I was really, really pleased to see Structured in here.

00:44:24   See, this is what I'm saying, right?

00:44:25   Which is why I think they're doing a better job now.

00:44:27   It's like, there are multiple apps that we know people that work on them, as well as things we don't.

00:44:31   And it shouldn't be only stuff that we know about.

00:44:34   But there should be, like, small indie companies making apps that get recognized.

00:44:39   And I also think they've done a better job of this with the Design Awards, too, over the last few years.

00:44:44   The iPad game of the year, Dredge, Infinity Nikki, and Prince of Persia, Lost Crown.

00:44:49   This is a real smorgasbord, this one.

00:44:52   Truly iPad games, I would say.

00:44:55   Yeah.

00:44:55   So Dredge and Prince of Persia were both PC games.

00:44:58   Well, they all were.

00:44:59   No, Infinity Nikki, I'll come back to.

00:45:02   Prince of Persia is sad because it's made by Ubisoft, and Ubisoft shut that team down and then ported it to other platforms, which is a heartbreak.

00:45:10   Because that's a good game, Lost Crown.

00:45:11   Infinity Nikki is, like, one of these games that's everywhere.

00:45:13   It's one of these gotcha games.

00:45:15   But people like that.

00:45:17   Mac app of the year, Acorn, which you mentioned earlier.

00:45:20   Essayist, which is, like, an academic papers app.

00:45:24   And Under My Roof, which is for keeping homeowners organized and prepared.

00:45:28   Uh-oh.

00:45:28   I'm going to go check that out.

00:45:29   Steven, you should go look at that.

00:45:31   I'm prepared, baby.

00:45:32   You're prepared.

00:45:33   This looks kind of like an inventory application for your house.

00:45:38   I don't know, but Steven's prepared.

00:45:40   He doesn't need that.

00:45:41   Mac game of the year.

00:45:42   Let's go.

00:45:44   Assassin's Creed Shadows actually came out.

00:45:47   Like, legit came out in the year, which is a first.

00:45:50   Cyberpunk 2077 Ultimate Edition, which will win.

00:45:55   And Never, which is a beautiful game that came out.

00:45:59   Never will win.

00:46:00   Never will win.

00:46:01   You think so?

00:46:01   I think so.

00:46:02   No, I think Cyberpunk's going to win because Apple are just so grateful that they brought

00:46:07   that to the platform.

00:46:08   Apple Arcade Game of the Year, Katomari Damacy Rolling Live, PGA Tour Pro Golf, and What the

00:46:15   Clash.

00:46:15   Okay.

00:46:16   Yeah.

00:46:17   Apple Vision Pro App of the Year.

00:46:19   Yeah, this was tough to put together this list.

00:46:24   Camo Studio, which I could not, I was like, come on, what are you doing?

00:46:28   And actually, it is like, it is a streaming app where you use your persona.

00:46:38   And my theory is, this exists, so people, because I saw recently, I think it was iJustine did

00:46:45   a, like a podcast inside of Vision Pro with people who work at Apple.

00:46:50   Yeah.

00:46:50   Yep.

00:46:50   It's like, I feel like something like Camo Studio exists, so things like that can be made.

00:46:54   But yeah, D-Day, The Camera Soldier, which I heard was like, I haven't played this one,

00:46:59   but it's like an immersive storytelling app.

00:47:00   And Explore POV, which is like Apple immersive videos filmed around the world.

00:47:05   You can go through a bunch of stuff there for, I guess, people who are making these things

00:47:09   themselves.

00:47:09   Game of the Year for Vision Pro, Fishing Haven, Gears and Goo, and Porta Noobie.

00:47:16   Porta Noobie.

00:47:18   Porta Noobie.

00:47:19   Porta Noobie.

00:47:19   Apple Watch App of the Year, Go Club, which is a hydration and activity app, Pro Camera by

00:47:25   Moment, so it's like a camera shutter application, like a timer, and Strava.

00:47:30   Everyone knows Strava.

00:47:31   Apple TV App of the Year.

00:47:33   What is worse?

00:47:35   Apple TV App of the Year or Vision Pro App of the Year?

00:47:37   I mean, looking at-

00:47:41   It's Apple TV, right?

00:47:42   I mean, yeah.

00:47:42   HBO Max?

00:47:43   Come on.

00:47:44   HBO Max.

00:47:45   Have you used that TV app?

00:47:47   PBS Kids.

00:47:48   And Super Farming Boy 4K.

00:47:51   Ah.

00:47:52   One day I'll be a super farming man.

00:47:56   This reminds me of when people would put HD behind their app name for the iPad.

00:48:01   Yep.

00:48:01   We had simpler times, you know?

00:48:03   Then there was the Cultural Impact finalists.

00:48:06   There's a bunch here.

00:48:07   So, Art of Fauna, A Space for the Unbound.

00:48:10   This is a mixture of apps and games.

00:48:12   Be My Eyes, Chance of Sunar, Desperlote, Focus Friend, Is This Seat Taken, which is a

00:48:19   great game.

00:48:19   Retro, Storygraph, Venba, Who's Call, and Yuka.

00:48:25   So, there's like some games there.

00:48:26   There's some apps there for like accessibility and privacy and focusing and stuff like that.

00:48:32   So, decent list.

00:48:34   Decent list.

00:48:35   And I guess later on in the year, they'll announce the winners, right?

00:48:38   Yeah, I mean, soon it should be, I think.

00:48:43   No Mac Story Select Awards, though.

00:48:46   You know what I'm saying?

00:48:47   Not yet.

00:48:48   No, I mean, like, it's nothing on that.

00:48:50   I mean, obviously.

00:48:52   That's where the real action is.

00:48:54   Obviously.

00:48:55   Get a clear trophy.

00:48:56   All I want is an Apple Design Award in my collection.

00:49:04   You know, whether we earn it.

00:49:07   Why would you get one?

00:49:08   Whether we earn it at Widget Smith or someone sends me one.

00:49:10   I had a lead on one like eight years ago.

00:49:13   Someone was going to like, their company had dissolved and they were going to just mail

00:49:17   it to me and they never did.

00:49:17   Steven, there's unfortunately to let you know something.

00:49:20   If Cross Forward ever wins a Design Award, you are not going to be the person.

00:49:24   No, I know.

00:49:25   No, I know.

00:49:26   Who has that?

00:49:26   But maybe we could share it, you know?

00:49:28   Ah, like Monday, Tuesdays, and Wednesdays.

00:49:30   Yeah.

00:49:31   Underscores.

00:49:32   I mean, if you want to help us win an ADA, check out the jobs link in the show notes.

00:49:37   This isn't the ADAs.

00:49:38   I've now mixed two awards.

00:49:40   Yeah, you have.

00:49:41   While we're speaking about awards, though.

00:49:42   Maybe this one, too, though.

00:49:43   This one, as well, would also be nice.

00:49:45   Steven doesn't want this award.

00:49:46   He only wants an ADA.

00:49:47   Because it's a cube of aluminum.

00:49:48   Surely they give you something for this, don't they?

00:49:52   A certificate.

00:49:53   Don't they give you the logo of the App Store made out of aluminum?

00:49:56   Yeah, I think so.

00:49:56   Did y'all see that Tyler, the creator, got the Apple Music Artist of the Year?

00:50:01   Yeah.

00:50:01   No?

00:50:02   Yeah.

00:50:02   Didn't see that.

00:50:03   Right before we published.

00:50:04   Well, that's probably why I didn't see it.

00:50:06   It was not Billie Eilish again.

00:50:08   I think she only won it one time.

00:50:11   Someone won it twice.

00:50:13   Really?

00:50:14   No, I think it was twice.

00:50:16   Music.

00:50:18   Eilish.

00:50:18   Apple Music.

00:50:19   Yeah.

00:50:23   Oh, man.

00:50:25   This is impossible.

00:50:26   2024 and 2019.

00:50:30   Oh, okay.

00:50:31   All right.

00:50:32   Fair enough.

00:50:33   Congrats.

00:50:34   Congrats.

00:50:35   Hey, guess what?

00:50:38   What?

00:50:39   Well, it's the holidays.

00:50:41   You know what that means?

00:50:43   Okay.

00:50:43   The Relay holiday sale.

00:50:46   Are you excited?

00:50:49   I'll be excited if people go to GiveRelay.com and become a member or give that membership

00:50:54   to somebody else.

00:50:55   Yes.

00:50:56   That would be very exciting.

00:50:57   All annual plans to membership are 20% off until December 31st.

00:51:03   That makes a show like Connected Pro, which is the ad-free and longer version of the show

00:51:09   that we do each and every week, basically a dollar an episode.

00:51:13   I mean, come on.

00:51:14   That's a pretty good deal.

00:51:15   Pretty good deal.

00:51:17   You think it's a good deal, Mike?

00:51:19   I think it's a great deal.

00:51:21   Because not only are you supporting one of the shows that you love, you're getting additional

00:51:26   content and you don't have to be advertising anymore.

00:51:28   Like, you won't hear us talk about this.

00:51:29   You know, maybe you don't want to hear this anymore.

00:51:31   If you're like, oh, man, are they going to talk about this every week?

00:51:34   The answer is yes.

00:51:36   And a way that you can get away from that is by going to GiveRelay.com and signing

00:51:41   up for a membership and supporting Connected Pro and the advertising is removed.

00:51:45   You don't have to hear us talk about these things anymore.

00:51:47   You don't have to hear any of Stephen's wonderful ads.

00:51:49   You don't have to hear them.

00:51:49   And you get additional fun stuff.

00:51:51   Like, we talk about all kinds of fun things.

00:51:53   We have very long-running bits that only occur in Connected Pro and you could get all of

00:51:59   that.

00:51:59   Imagine all the bits that you're missing.

00:52:01   Just go to GetConnectedPro.co, use 2025 holidays at checkout or go to GiveRelay.com.

00:52:06   And learn more.

00:52:06   iPad OS 26 just keeps on giving.

00:52:12   26.2 beta restores some more old features.

00:52:18   Federico, what's going on?

00:52:19   Yeah, so the idea is that they're making it easier to create split views on iPad OS 26.2

00:52:29   by sort of replicating the old gesture-based system from iPad OS 18.

00:52:36   One of the criticisms that I saw when iPad OS 26 was introduced from a lot of people who

00:52:43   used to rely on split view and slide over was that Apple was making it too difficult to just

00:52:49   split the screen in two, for example.

00:52:51   If you just wanted to have a split screen UI with one app on one side and another app on the other side.

00:52:56   And sure, you have the menus and you have the keyboard shortcuts.

00:53:00   But a lot of people, I guess, they just wanted to have the older system where you could just pick up an icon from the dock, drop it somewhere on screen, and, you know, create a split view with two simple sort of flick gestures.

00:53:15   That used to be a whole thing.

00:53:17   Like, there's been over the years a whole conversation about the iPad and about how multitasking was sort of implemented.

00:53:25   Some people found those gestures very easy to use.

00:53:29   But for a lot of people, those gestures were also confusing because they accidentally got into a multitasking state that they didn't know how to get out of.

00:53:39   It appears that Apple is now sort of trying to find a balance of all the multitasking systems that they have had over the years.

00:53:46   So now, whether you're using the new iPadOS 26 windowing or stage manager, you can now drop windows on screen with the same old gestures from before.

00:53:59   So from the dock, from Spotlight, from the app library too, I think, you can start dragging an icon and it'll morph into the familiar sort of rectangle shape.

00:54:10   Now, what's different here is that they are using a visual indicator to signify what's going to happen when you let go of the rectangle that you're dragging.

00:54:26   If you recall, in iPadOS 26.1, they brought back slide over.

00:54:31   And they brought back slide over with this UI element, this little translucent pulling indicator that when you hit the slide over window, you would see this pulling indicator at the edge of the display.

00:54:48   Now, that UI element is being used to tell you visually that when you let go of a rectangle of a window that you're dragging, it's going to become either a split view or a slide over.

00:55:01   So, as with anything iPad multitasking, this is really hard to describe in a podcast.

00:55:08   I'm going to try my best.

00:55:09   You pick up an icon from the dock in 26.2, you start dragging, the icon becomes a window rectangle.

00:55:18   When you go to either the left or the right sides and sort of enough toward the edge of the screen, the pulling indicator comes up.

00:55:28   When the pulling indicator comes up, it means that if you let go, you're going to create a split screen.

00:55:34   You're going to create a split screen on the left or the right.

00:55:37   However, if you actually drag the icon onto the pulling indicator, it's going to have a little animation and you're going to create a slide over instantly.

00:55:49   So, you get to choose, basically.

00:55:51   Do you want to drop the window near the indicator?

00:55:53   That's going to create a split view.

00:55:55   You're going to drop the icon inside the indicator that is going to morph and play a little container animation.

00:56:02   It's going to become a split view.

00:56:03   It's going to become a slide over.

00:56:07   I mean, if you are familiar with these gestures, it is an easier way to quickly create a split view on screen.

00:56:15   Just pick up Safari, you know, drop it on the left, pick up Notes, drop it on the right.

00:56:19   You have a split screen UI with Safari and Notes on screen.

00:56:22   You could have done this with a keyboard shortcut.

00:56:25   You could have done this with a shortcut section.

00:56:27   You could have done this with a menu.

00:56:28   Now, you can also do it again, because this is an old feature.

00:56:32   You can do it again with drag and drop.

00:56:35   That's sort of the idea.

00:56:37   Now, tell me if I'm wrong, because I was playing around with this today.

00:56:41   You seem to only be able to do this when you open an app.

00:56:46   Like, if I had an app open, I couldn't seem to drag it to the side.

00:56:51   When is it that you don't have apps open?

00:56:54   When you're on the home screen?

00:56:57   Sorry, like, I mean, like, let's, okay, so I've got mail open, right?

00:57:00   Yeah.

00:57:01   If I, it felt like I couldn't take that and just drag, like, it was, I'm already looking at it.

00:57:06   That I couldn't drag it to the side.

00:57:09   It wasn't working for me.

00:57:10   It's only if I dragged it from the dock.

00:57:11   Yeah, so, so you want to drag the window, the actual window of mail.

00:57:15   Yeah.

00:57:17   In that case, you need to flick it to the side of the screen.

00:57:20   Oh my God.

00:57:21   Okay.

00:57:21   What I'm referring to applies to dragging icons.

00:57:25   Yeah, dragging from the dock or dragging from Spotlight.

00:57:28   From Spotlight.

00:57:28   Why can't I do, I mean, I know you don't know the answer to this, but what, I mean, I feel

00:57:33   like they need to, they need to consolidate that.

00:57:36   Yeah.

00:57:36   They have those flick gestures for windows, which I personally find a little hard to use because

00:57:41   getting the momentum or like the acceleration of your finger just right can be a little challenging.

00:57:49   And I agree with you.

00:57:50   It would just be better if you could just like start dragging a window.

00:57:53   Maybe, I don't know, do a little shake of the window and you trigger a split view somehow.

00:57:59   I don't know.

00:57:59   But they have those flick gestures for actual windows on screen that I find kind of challenging

00:58:06   to use.

00:58:07   But yes, the drag and drop behavior that I just described applies to dragging icons.

00:58:12   So you start dragging an icon, it turns into that rectangle preview.

00:58:16   I'm not even sure there's a name for the rectangle preview.

00:58:21   It's not really a preview.

00:58:22   It's like a blurred rectangle that changes shape.

00:58:28   And they've done that forever, right?

00:58:30   These rectangles that change their shapes.

00:58:32   And depending on the shapes, you know what it means.

00:58:35   Now, though, they have that little triangle on the left side of the screen that is easier

00:58:40   to understand than, you know, a rectangle changing the shape ever so subtly under your finger.

00:58:46   So at least they're showing you an icon on screen.

00:58:49   But yeah, that's how it works.

00:58:53   Like, I guess what's interesting is that they haven't stopped listening to feedback for iPad

00:59:03   OS 26 yet.

00:59:04   And I don't know, I had this thought this week of like, iPad multitasking, to borrow a term

00:59:14   from the AI world, you know, multi-modality.

00:59:18   But iPad multitasking is the most multi-modal version of multitasking that Apple has ever made.

00:59:25   Because when you think about it, you have the Mac-like, traffic-like buttons.

00:59:32   And then you have a menu bar.

00:59:33   And then you have keyboard shortcuts.

00:59:35   And then you have shortcut sections.

00:59:36   You have flick gestures.

00:59:38   Now you have actual drag and drop gestures.

00:59:43   Like, you have so many different ways to engage with multitasking that you just, you know,

00:59:49   obviously on the Mac, you cannot have all of those.

00:59:52   Which makes me wonder if they're doing all this work because the Mac is also going to be a multi-modal

01:00:01   multitasking machine at some point, maybe later next year with touch.

01:00:07   But right now, the iPad is like the richest version of multitasking that they have.

01:00:12   They support everything.

01:00:13   Menus, keyboard, touch, you know, shortcuts, whatever.

01:00:17   They have it all.

01:00:19   Which, I mean, it is an accomplishment in and of itself, really.

01:00:23   No other company has this sort of ecosystem on a tablet.

01:00:27   Yeah.

01:00:28   It's impressive.

01:00:30   It can also be confusing for people because you have all these options.

01:00:33   Yeah.

01:00:34   But I'm always going to be in the camp of, it's better to have a lot of options than

01:00:39   have nothing at all.

01:00:41   It's like, it's better to have a lot of options and have to explain them than just to disappoint

01:00:45   people.

01:00:45   Just to say, yeah, exactly.

01:00:47   Exactly.

01:00:47   Yeah.

01:00:48   It feels like, you know, like they've, I think I saw Steve Trouton Smith say that like, you

01:00:53   know, they've done more in the last two months than they ever did during the stage manager

01:00:57   era.

01:00:57   Yeah.

01:00:58   And, but I think that that is an important thing because I think the speed at which Apple

01:01:03   is iterating and adding new features suggests that the underlying technology of the new

01:01:09   window and system is much more capable and workable.

01:01:14   That going back to the drawing board was actually very important because they're actually now able

01:01:20   to address the frustrations that people are having rather than what they had before, which

01:01:25   was just like, oh, sorry, like we'll rewrite it, I guess, like is essentially what we've got

01:01:33   to, I will say that even on this new version, I'm just going to complain again here.

01:01:36   The keyboard shortcuts are still just not working the way that they should be.

01:01:40   I think like I'm still getting, there's still like command H seems to hide an app, not go

01:01:48   home.

01:01:48   So like if I'm, again, this is stage manager problems, maybe just like gets rid of whatever

01:01:53   app is the active app rather than going to home.

01:01:55   And if I quit an app, it still shows in the stage manager preview area rather than actually

01:02:02   going away.

01:02:03   So please, Apple, please fix, please revert whatever it was you were doing keyboard shortcut

01:02:08   wise to like the 26 version, 26, yeah, 26.0.

01:02:14   I like that there you've added more keyboard shortcuts, but let's, let's just like refine them a little

01:02:19   bit and test them out.

01:02:20   Stage manager would be awesome.

01:02:21   But yeah, I think it's really interesting that they're continuing to make more and more tweaks

01:02:30   to this system and adding in the things that people wanted.

01:02:33   I hope that this will be enough for the, the split few slide over people, you know, like

01:02:39   that they, that they're, this will be enough, but I feel like it won't be, but I feel like

01:02:46   this is a pretty decent, I think this is a decent compromise.

01:02:49   Yeah, no, I think so.

01:02:51   And I mean, there, we talked about this on the, the, the next NPU is all about iPad OS

01:02:57   26, but one thing we talked about on that episode is at least it's still modal.

01:03:03   Like you can use it one app at a time, or you can use stage manager, or you can use all

01:03:09   of this new stuff.

01:03:10   And the iPad has to remain simple while also growing for power users.

01:03:16   And I think that's, I think that's tough, but there is something funny about Apple having

01:03:21   all these different versions of, of window management.

01:03:24   I mean, it's, it's, it's even a bigger example than, than Mac OS.

01:03:28   I mean, Mac OS has spaces and expose and dashboard or not dashboard, mission control, excuse me.

01:03:35   And all of these things, but they all are kind of on the same level, same playing field where

01:03:41   the iPad is like you, it's like different roads you can go down.

01:03:43   And I think that's good, but there is also something fun, just a little bit funny about

01:03:49   it, that iPads can work in drastically different ways, depending on your preferences.

01:03:54   But maybe that's a good thing.

01:03:57   I think it is.

01:04:00   Like, again, it's like the, you know, the Mac, you can set up in so many ways to do exactly

01:04:04   what you want it to do.

01:04:06   And it's tweakable and hackable in a way to, you know, to really get it the way that you

01:04:11   want.

01:04:12   So if we're not going to be able to do that with the, like the underlying platform of what

01:04:19   iPad OS is, at least Apple providing lots of options for people to be able to do, to like

01:04:26   use the device is a way, is the best way to be like Apple should at least give me lots

01:04:33   of ways to which I can manage it, which they are right.

01:04:36   You've got like single app mode, you've got like multiple window mode and stage manager.

01:04:42   And then within the two multitasking modes, you've now got, you can just drag things around

01:04:46   wherever you want.

01:04:47   You can resize them however you want.

01:04:49   You can use this new split view thing if you want to, but you don't need to.

01:04:53   You can also do this with keyboard shortcuts and the green button and all this kind of

01:04:58   stuff.

01:04:58   It is nice now.

01:04:59   Maybe you mentioned it's Federico and I missed it, but like that you, it's better than the

01:05:05   old split view because you have infinite resizability between the two windows, which you didn't have

01:05:10   before.

01:05:10   It was like there were set periods and now you can, you can make it as much as you want.

01:05:15   So that is a benefit to people who were using split view.

01:05:18   I feel like like now you can, you can really like make the split that makes the most sense

01:05:23   between the two windows, which wasn't always the thing that you could do.

01:05:25   So yeah, I'm, it's fascinating to see.

01:05:29   I mean, I'm sure that this is very intriguing to you, Federico, like that they keep, keep playing

01:05:34   around with this.

01:05:35   I guess this is exactly the kind of thing you would want to see as someone who's cared so

01:05:39   much about this platform.

01:05:40   Yeah.

01:05:40   So far.

01:05:41   Yes.

01:05:41   I want to see.

01:05:42   And it feels like Craig is living up to his end of the bargain from what you spoke to

01:05:45   about.

01:05:45   So I think so.

01:05:46   I think so.

01:05:47   I want to see how it, how it keeps going.

01:05:50   Like, is it just a blip or does it actually keep going?

01:05:54   No, it'll end.

01:05:55   I mean, it has to end at some point because I have to start getting 27 ready.

01:05:58   Like they can't, you know, get to a certain time and they're not going to keep adding new

01:06:02   features to this and they can just keep them for 27.

01:06:06   I think they're just trying to get it to a point where they're trying to make the most

01:06:09   people the most happy.

01:06:11   Right.

01:06:11   And I think this will probably get them there.

01:06:16   26.2.

01:06:17   Because they've added in, you know, a version of the existing features, plus not really they've

01:06:24   not made any regressions to the people that like the new stuff.

01:06:28   So I would expect that this will probably be the last multitasking change of any significance

01:06:34   we'll see in the 26 cycle.

01:06:36   And then maybe we'll see something new for iOS 27.

01:06:39   Yeah.

01:06:40   Is it possible that, yes, I think Apple is like following up on what Craig and Federico

01:06:49   talked about and they're improving this, but like, are they also just like lost in the

01:06:52   woods with this redesign?

01:06:54   I mean, adding slide over back, adding this back, like, is it listening to customers or is

01:07:00   it they made bad decisions?

01:07:01   Is it now undoing or does that distinction not really matter?

01:07:04   I don't know.

01:07:05   As long as the features are good.

01:07:07   Yeah.

01:07:08   But I think I get what you're saying of like, the new system allowed for this was seemingly

01:07:13   not a lot of effort from their part, considering the speed at which they've iterated.

01:07:17   Sure.

01:07:18   Yeah.

01:07:18   Should they have thought of this?

01:07:20   And if they could have provided it, why didn't they?

01:07:24   Yeah.

01:07:25   Like, I think, is that what you're getting at?

01:07:27   I think so.

01:07:27   I mean, it's, uh, the speed is definitely one thing that makes me think like, was this

01:07:34   in the works and just not finished or was it easy to re-implement, you know?

01:07:39   We have no way of knowing, right?

01:07:41   We just assume, oh, they're listening to people, but maybe that was the plan all along and we're

01:07:45   just inferring that they're listening to people because we want to feel good about ourselves

01:07:49   because we are people.

01:07:51   While in fact, they just, while in fact, they just had this plan and we're just saying,

01:07:55   oh, look, it's about us.

01:07:56   But it really isn't.

01:07:58   Maybe.

01:07:58   I don't know.

01:07:59   Yeah.

01:08:02   It's, it's definitely a bit unusual, but I guess you're right.

01:08:05   As long as at the end of the day, the features that people want and depend on an iPad OS,

01:08:09   as long as they're there, like, I guess it doesn't really matter.

01:08:12   It's just kind of maybe a funny distinction to consider.

01:08:14   Yeah.

01:08:17   Well, I think that does it for this week.

01:08:20   Thank you so much for listening.

01:08:22   As a reminder, we do have the holiday sale going on for memberships.

01:08:27   Go to giverelay.com and you'll get 20% off any annual plan.

01:08:31   Connected Pro is the version we do.

01:08:33   It's ad-free with extra content.

01:08:35   Go check it out.

01:08:36   If you want to find more of us, you can find us on the internet.

01:08:40   Federico is the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net.

01:08:43   Federico, what's going on towards the end of the year?

01:08:47   I have a story coming out in a few minutes about some follow-up to the M5 iPad Pro.

01:08:57   Minutes from whenever you're listening to this, which is the interesting part.

01:09:01   Or it's already out.

01:09:02   No, this is relative to the listener.

01:09:05   So give it, from when you're hearing this, give it two minutes and then go check MacStories.

01:09:09   And you will find it.

01:09:11   And you will find it.

01:09:12   Yeah.

01:09:13   And yeah, then we have MacStories Selects coming up, obviously.

01:09:18   So that's going to be fun.

01:09:21   It's going to be exciting.

01:09:22   Yeah.

01:09:23   Mike, what about you?

01:09:27   What do you have going on?

01:09:27   Black Friday.

01:09:29   That's what's going on in my life.

01:09:33   We're doing our first ever sale at Cortex Brand over the Black Friday period.

01:09:37   Okay.

01:09:38   Preparing for that.

01:09:40   That's exciting.

01:09:41   Yeah.

01:09:42   I mean, who knows?

01:09:44   You know what I mean?

01:09:44   I don't know.

01:09:45   I don't really know what to expect.

01:09:46   But, you know, we're retail.

01:09:49   That's what we do in retail, apparently.

01:09:52   I guess so.

01:09:52   So I'm doing it.

01:09:53   I guess so.

01:09:54   I'm going to give it a go.

01:09:55   I'm going to give it a go.

01:09:55   I'm going to see what happens.

01:09:57   Okay.

01:09:57   And you can find Mike's writing over at theenthusiast.net every Friday.

01:10:02   Sometimes more often.

01:10:04   Every Friday.

01:10:05   Whoever they're black or not, it doesn't matter to me.

01:10:09   Green Friday, I'll do it.

01:10:11   What do I have going on?

01:10:13   I don't know.

01:10:15   I'm working on stuff.

01:10:16   I'm just kicking around.

01:10:17   I'm just doing things, you know?

01:10:20   Thanksgiving's next week.

01:10:21   I won't be here next week, but y'all will be here.

01:10:23   The show will be out a day later next week because of Thanksgiving.

01:10:26   Yeah.

01:10:27   Yeah.

01:10:27   This is a very funny moment where Stephen said to me,

01:10:30   you're not going to record next Thursday, are you?

01:10:33   I'm like, why wouldn't I?

01:10:34   He's like, well, because we kind of have Geometa on Thanksgiving.

01:10:38   I'm like, oh, yeah.

01:10:39   So we'll record on Thanksgiving and the episode will come out the next day.

01:10:44   Yep.

01:10:44   So that'll be going on.

01:10:46   Check out that Mac Power Users episode on Sunday.

01:10:48   It's a good one.

01:10:49   And I think dovetails nicely with our conversation here today.

01:10:51   And you can find my writing at 512pixels.net.

01:10:55   I'd like to thank our sponsor this week, Ecamm, for supporting the show.

01:10:59   And until next time, guys, say goodbye.

01:11:02   Arrivederci.

01:11:03   Cheerio.

01:11:04   Bye, y'all.