Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 560. It's made possible by our sponsors, Ecamm and ZocDoc.

00:00:17 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett, and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, Stephen.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:24 ◼   ► We have something, I have something fun planned for next week's episode of Connected.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Yes, this is my last recording before a little vacation, and I'm afraid.

00:00:34 ◼   ► I have something fun, and I'm going to enjoy that fun with the Ricky Benchman, Federico Vatici.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Ciao, Federico.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Hello, ciao, Mike. Ciao, Stephen.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Ciao, ciao, ciao, ciao.

00:00:45 ◼   ► It's good to be here.

00:00:47 ◼   ► This is the second episode in two weeks where I'm starting the show by drinking half a Red Bull.

00:00:52 ◼   ► Ooh, no.

00:00:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm worried that this is my life now.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I'm really tired, and so I figure to give you the passion and the energy that you deserve and the passionate ones deserve, I have to drink half of a Red Bull.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Just half, because if I drink more than half, it causes other problems.

00:01:10 ◼   ► What?

00:01:10 ◼   ► And I'm about a quarter of a way through so far, so we can expect things to pick up as the episode continues.

00:01:16 ◼   ► What do you do with the other half?

00:01:18 ◼   ► I throw it away.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:01:21 ◼   ► You should give it to a plant or something.

00:01:24 ◼   ► What do you want me to do with it?

00:01:24 ◼   ► Pour it on a plant.

00:01:24 ◼   ► See if the plant's energetic.

00:01:25 ◼   ► Do you think that would be good for a plant, Red Bull?

00:01:27 ◼   ► Put it in the fridge with a little piece of tape on it and have it tomorrow.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Mike, just out of curiosity, where do you stand on the idea of having a heart attack during Connected?

00:01:42 ◼   ► I mean, it would be good content.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I agree.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Okay, cool.

00:01:45 ◼   ► It would be memorable.

00:01:46 ◼   ► So I'll say this.

00:01:48 ◼   ► There's a podcast that I listen to, and he says this often, and I'll say it again.

00:01:51 ◼   ► If I die during an episode of the show, I want you to publish it.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Because it will be good for the show.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Big same.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:59 ◼   ► It will be good for the show.

00:02:01 ◼   ► So, you know, if I'm not here anymore, fine.

00:02:03 ◼   ► I want you to publish the show.

00:02:05 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:02:06 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:02:07 ◼   ► We'll do the title suggestions and everything, you know.

00:02:09 ◼   ► I mean, there is precedent for this.

00:02:11 ◼   ► Federico got robbed during an episode of Connected, and we carried on.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:02:16 ◼   ► Well, I mean.

00:02:17 ◼   ► He got robbed via security camera.

00:02:19 ◼   ► He wasn't.

00:02:20 ◼   ► It's still robbing, right?

00:02:22 ◼   ► Like, you know, like, just because you weren't in that place when it was happening.

00:02:27 ◼   ► I still felt violated remotely, you know.

00:02:31 ◼   ► I said he got robbed, not mugged, right?

00:02:34 ◼   ► Mugged is, like, happening on him.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Rubbed, like, he got robbed, you know?

00:02:38 ◼   ► Like, the beach house was robbed.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Federico was watching it happen.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Of the barbecue equipment, no less.

00:02:45 ◼   ► The worst thing to be robbed from a beach house.

00:02:48 ◼   ► How did you survive, you know?

00:02:50 ◼   ► I know, right?

00:02:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:52 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:53 ◼   ► What is a beach house without its barbecue implements?

00:02:56 ◼   ► It's just a house.

00:02:57 ◼   ► It's just a house with some sand nearby.

00:02:59 ◼   ► It's just...

00:02:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Sandy house.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Just an annoying sandy house.

00:03:04 ◼   ► With some follow-up, Michael Rowe wrote in and said,

00:03:07 ◼   ► I was out walking yesterday, and iOS 26 workout buddy, Federico's favorite feature,

00:03:12 ◼   ► informed me that I had hit one mile while listening to Chop Man from Connected in a voice that sounded

00:03:18 ◼   ► like I was jamming.

00:03:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:20 ◼   ► He's a Chop Man.

00:03:21 ◼   ► I've been hearing this from people that this is a very strange phenomenon.

00:03:25 ◼   ► I keep getting social media posts to me about this, that workout buddy tells you the episode

00:03:32 ◼   ► title of the podcast.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And because of the way we choose our episode titles, which are just weird things said on

00:03:38 ◼   ► the show, that it is causing a lot of confusion in people.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Because understandably, when you're listening to the episode of the podcast, you don't really

00:03:46 ◼   ► know what it's called, because it's not important to you, right?

00:03:48 ◼   ► But if it's a show where the titles are contextual, right?

00:03:53 ◼   ► That it's like, ah, it's the name of the guest or something.

00:03:56 ◼   ► It's like, okay, that makes logical sense when you hear it.

00:03:59 ◼   ► But when you hear our titles, it's like, what am I listening to?

00:04:02 ◼   ► What's going on?

00:04:03 ◼   ► Well, workout buddy's going to help everybody surface those titles.

00:04:05 ◼   ► That could be really exciting for that episode, that title that was all just numbers.

00:04:10 ◼   ► Oh, gosh.

00:04:12 ◼   ► This is a good potential audience griefing opportunity, isn't it?

00:04:16 ◼   ► Just really, really, really long titles.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:19 ◼   ► Connected 366, whose title was, and I quote, 514-696-347822-359-1212-34159-1186-411-511-288-2812-366-1112-26191710.

00:04:42 ◼   ► So, who's the workout buddy now, you know?

00:04:44 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:04:44 ◼   ► You're a workout buddy now.

00:04:46 ◼   ► I still can't believe we called an episode Chartman.

00:04:48 ◼   ► Chartman.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Jason told me he immediately knew it was about him.

00:04:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I keep thinking of the, I keep thinking, I've been thinking about the Blur song,

00:05:00 ◼   ► Charmless Man, for the past week.

00:05:02 ◼   ► But instead of Charmless, it's Chartless, you know?

00:05:05 ◼   ► The story of a chartless man.

00:05:07 ◼   ► No charts.

00:05:08 ◼   ► That's me, I don't have charts.

00:05:10 ◼   ► I don't believe in him.

00:05:11 ◼   ► I don't want them.

00:05:12 ◼   ► Everybody else has charts.

00:05:13 ◼   ► I don't care.

00:05:14 ◼   ► I don't want charts.

00:05:14 ◼   ► Charts are for people with bad memories.

00:05:17 ◼   ► Okay.

00:05:19 ◼   ► Sure.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Last week on the show, we were furiously trying to understand if an A18 Pro could power a display.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And many things were said.

00:05:31 ◼   ► And it turns out that some of them were wrong.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Fluful wrote in and said, I think you had some details about external display support for iPhones and the A-chips wrong.

00:05:41 ◼   ► Since I know that my A15 Pro is fine with a 4K, 60Hz, and HDR monitor.

00:05:48 ◼   ► But when trying to confirm this, I found that it looks like even the regular 15 can do it too.

00:05:53 ◼   ► And Matthias wrote in and said, iPhone uses the DisplayPort protocol to support connections to USB-C displays up to 4K resolution and 60Hz.

00:06:02 ◼   ► So, an A18 Pro MacBook could power a display.

00:06:09 ◼   ► So, that's good for that computer, I guess.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:14 ◼   ► Should have thought of that.

00:06:15 ◼   ► It's not just plain USB.

00:06:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:16 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Makes sense.

00:06:18 ◼   ► I was disappointed you had not internalized the USB-C specifications in full, Federico.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Right, right.

00:06:23 ◼   ► My bad.

00:06:24 ◼   ► It was especially funny to me listening to MPC, listening to you talk about the USB DisplayPort spec for your eyeglasses.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:34 ◼   ► He's living in the future.

00:06:37 ◼   ► He really is.

00:06:38 ◼   ► It really is.

00:06:39 ◼   ► It's a future.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Federico lives in a future.

00:06:42 ◼   ► It's a future.

00:06:44 ◼   ► One of many.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Whether it's the right future, unsure.

00:06:48 ◼   ► But it's a future.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:06:50 ◼   ► Yes.

00:06:51 ◼   ► Hey, I quit my job 10 years ago.

00:06:55 ◼   ► It's like today.

00:06:57 ◼   ► I'm done.

00:06:58 ◼   ► I'm free.

00:06:59 ◼   ► Congratulations, Stephen, for quitting your jobs 10 years ago.

00:07:02 ◼   ► We didn't tell you until now.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So, congratulations on that.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Congratulations, Stephen.

00:07:08 ◼   ► I just found the time to read the post this morning.

00:07:12 ◼   ► And you should be proud of everything you've done.

00:07:16 ◼   ► This is what I wanted to say.

00:07:18 ◼   ► I think you should be proud of everything you've done.

00:07:19 ◼   ► The fact that you still, you know, you've had, you know, 512 for longer than that.

00:07:26 ◼   ► But taking the leap 10 years ago to do Relay.

00:07:30 ◼   ► And now, obviously, your career has evolved in some other directions as well.

00:07:34 ◼   ► But it's an important achievement.

00:07:38 ◼   ► And you should be proud of everything you've done and everything you're still doing, which I think is equally important.

00:07:44 ◼   ► Not just the things you've done, but the things you're still doing.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Thanks, man.

00:07:49 ◼   ► No, that means a lot.

00:07:49 ◼   ► It snuck up on me a little bit.

00:07:52 ◼   ► But having a chance to reflect on it, it's just, it's really incredible.

00:07:56 ◼   ► And I owe it thanks to a lot of people.

00:07:58 ◼   ► And that's on the blog post.

00:08:00 ◼   ► So, go check it out.

00:08:02 ◼   ► And I got linked to by The Enthusiast.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Which is very enthusiastically posting about you.

00:08:08 ◼   ► I spent a lot of time.

00:08:11 ◼   ► I spent more time picking the image.

00:08:12 ◼   ► A lot of photos of us.

00:08:16 ◼   ► The real problem, the problem of picking a photo of Stephen is, which Stephen do you want?

00:08:23 ◼   ► Because every year, Stephen is a different man.

00:08:26 ◼   ► And it's like, do you want a Stephen that looks like a current Stephen?

00:08:30 ◼   ► Or do you want to try and guess what this year's Stephen model would be?

00:08:34 ◼   ► And then try and find a Stephen from the past and apply that image to now.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Yeah, the one you picked is one of my favorite Stephens, I think.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Oh, that's a good vintage, that Stephen.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Yeah, short hair, long beard.

00:08:48 ◼   ► That's one of my favorite Stephens from over the years.

00:08:51 ◼   ► No, my favorite Stephen, I think, is a version of the current Stephen.

00:08:56 ◼   ► Which is mostly mustache forward and longer hair.

00:09:00 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, the mustache results.

00:09:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Although maybe best Stephen was Lion Stephen.

00:09:07 ◼   ► He just had an absolute mane.

00:09:10 ◼   ► That was before I got married.

00:09:11 ◼   ► Because it was my wedding anniversary.

00:09:14 ◼   ► This week.

00:09:15 ◼   ► And so I saw pictures of, I took Stephen to a barber.

00:09:18 ◼   ► You took all of the groomsmen.

00:09:22 ◼   ► It wasn't just me.

00:09:23 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:09:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:09:24 ◼   ► But you were there.

00:09:25 ◼   ► And it wasn't because Stephen's hair was on.

00:09:28 ◼   ► I actually didn't want him to get much cut off.

00:09:30 ◼   ► But he had a lot cut off.

00:09:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:32 ◼   ► But the guy said, we're going to start with you.

00:09:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:35 ◼   ► He was pretty concerned, I think.

00:09:38 ◼   ► That was my barber.

00:09:39 ◼   ► I actually went to today.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Oh, nice.

00:09:41 ◼   ► He doesn't say hello, but he would if he knew that he should.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:46 ◼   ► Current Stephen is the opposite of this picture.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Short, really short beard, mustache.

00:09:50 ◼   ► And I haven't gotten my hair cut since the podcast-a-thon.

00:09:53 ◼   ► So it's long.

00:09:54 ◼   ► Excellent.

00:09:55 ◼   ► It's something.

00:09:58 ◼   ► So, yeah, that's the problem with pictures of Stephen.

00:10:01 ◼   ► It's like, which one's the right one to post?

00:10:04 ◼   ► But, you know, there we are.

00:10:06 ◼   ► I like the one that I posted.

00:10:07 ◼   ► I feel like that's the version most people think of.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Short hair, long beard.

00:10:12 ◼   ► It's the one they've seen the most recently.

00:10:13 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:10:14 ◼   ► I saw 12 hours of you a year ago.

00:10:17 ◼   ► It's true.

00:10:17 ◼   ► And then we'll update it in September.

00:10:19 ◼   ► I'm not a YouTuber anymore.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Secret.

00:10:22 ◼   ► Is this a 2026 Stephen or a 2025 model?

00:10:27 ◼   ► How do you work that one out?

00:10:28 ◼   ► I feel...

00:10:30 ◼   ► I mean, since I haven't gotten a haircut in nine months,

00:10:34 ◼   ► I feel like I'm 2025 Stephen currently.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Right.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Because it is unlikely you will go the rest of the year looking the same.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Because that is your way.

00:10:42 ◼   ► So...

00:10:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:43 ◼   ► We'll get a new Stephen in 2026.

00:10:46 ◼   ► We're going to look forward to that model.

00:10:47 ◼   ► There are people pushing me to have my haircut as a podcast-a-thon gag.

00:10:51 ◼   ► Right.

00:10:52 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:10:53 ◼   ► Well, if Jill gets her way.

00:10:56 ◼   ► Are you going to go for a foldable Stephen?

00:10:58 ◼   ► Thin and light Stephen?

00:10:59 ◼   ► Where are we going?

00:11:00 ◼   ► I mean, I wish I were a thin and light Stephen.

00:11:02 ◼   ► You know?

00:11:02 ◼   ► Stephen 26 air.

00:11:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:08 ◼   ► We have some research and development to do.

00:11:10 ◼   ► That's right.

00:11:11 ◼   ► That's right.

00:11:11 ◼   ► To get into that one.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Stephen pro max.

00:11:13 ◼   ► You're going to put a silicon carbide skeleton inside.

00:11:15 ◼   ► And then you'll be ready to roll.

00:11:18 ◼   ► See, this rebel is doing great.

00:11:19 ◼   ► It's doing great.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:21 ◼   ► You're on fire.

00:11:21 ◼   ► Oh, my ear just started ringing.

00:11:23 ◼   ► So maybe it's not so great.

00:11:24 ◼   ► You've had too much.

00:11:25 ◼   ► You've had too much.

00:11:33 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Ecamm.

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00:13:24 ◼   ► I may have found the perfect MagSafe wallet.

00:13:28 ◼   ► For now.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:30 ◼   ► For now.

00:13:33 ◼   ► Nomad Leather MagWallet with Find My Tracking.

00:13:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:13:40 ◼   ► Wow, it's leather, so you must hate the planet.

00:13:42 ◼   ► Is it?

00:13:43 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Sorry.

00:13:48 ◼   ► I just had to.

00:13:49 ◼   ► I don't think leather's bad for the...

00:13:51 ◼   ► Oh, you're making it worse.

00:13:53 ◼   ► It's bad for the animals, right?

00:13:55 ◼   ► Therefore, bad for the planet.

00:13:58 ◼   ► Are animals bad for the planet?

00:14:01 ◼   ► Please stop.

00:14:02 ◼   ► Look, I don't know.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Look, it started as a joke, and it's like it was a stupid joke.

00:14:08 ◼   ► Please, please don't go any further.

00:14:09 ◼   ► Hey, look, y'all are the ones looking at the feedback next week, not me.

00:14:12 ◼   ► Oh, but I can just post select a little delete.

00:14:15 ◼   ► That's true.

00:14:16 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:14:17 ◼   ► So this is from Nomad, MagSafe wallet.

00:14:20 ◼   ► This was announced a few weeks ago, and I ordered one, and it's come in.

00:14:26 ◼   ► I've been using it for about a week, and I have some impressions.

00:14:31 ◼   ► First of all, being Find My compatible is really awesome.

00:14:38 ◼   ► You know, the Apple wallet is, but it just basically drops a pin in Find My whenever it's disconnected from the phone.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And that's pretty good until someone moves your wallet, and then it's not where...

00:14:51 ◼   ► Like you dropped it on the bus.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:14:54 ◼   ► It's like, oh, I'm standing in the middle of this highway.

00:14:56 ◼   ► Where's my wallet?

00:14:57 ◼   ► And so this thing is more like...

00:15:03 ◼   ► It's not quite like an AirTag because it doesn't have the ultra-wideband support,

00:15:06 ◼   ► but it is more Find My-y, I guess?

00:15:12 ◼   ► No, I guess it's Find My in the way that your laptop is, or your iPad,

00:15:20 ◼   ► because they don't have ultra-wideband.

00:15:21 ◼   ► Right.

00:15:22 ◼   ► Maybe some of the newer ones do, but let's say your old iPhone, right?

00:15:27 ◼   ► Before they went to ultra-wideband, or your AirPods, right?

00:15:31 ◼   ► Some of those kinds of devices.

00:15:33 ◼   ► Whereas it can tell you roughly where it is, but not super pinpoint it.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Not super great.

00:15:39 ◼   ► It holds easily, they say three to four, I would say four to five cards,

00:15:46 ◼   ► you know, depending on thickness, pretty easily.

00:15:48 ◼   ► And one thing I really like about it that I don't like about the Apple one

00:15:53 ◼   ► is that there's a little thumb cut out at the bottom,

00:15:55 ◼   ► so you can, like, push the cards out easily.

00:16:00 ◼   ► What's the noise that it makes, sir?

00:16:01 ◼   ► Like that.

00:16:02 ◼   ► That's a really interesting noise.

00:16:05 ◼   ► How do they make it do that?

00:16:06 ◼   ► Is it because of the electronics inside?

00:16:09 ◼   ► That's really good.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So, just to confirm, the Find My stuff is built into the wallet.

00:16:15 ◼   ► It's not like a card.

00:16:16 ◼   ► That's right.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Now, Nomad has a card.

00:16:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:20 ◼   ► That I think is basically the same as what's sewn into the back of this wallet.

00:16:23 ◼   ► So, it is a little bit thicker.

00:16:25 ◼   ► It's not thick, but it's a little bit thicker because of that.

00:16:27 ◼   ► And it does have a battery.

00:16:29 ◼   ► But unlike earlier versions of things like this,

00:16:33 ◼   ► you can just recharge this on a Qi or MagSafe charger.

00:16:38 ◼   ► So, that's real nice.

00:16:39 ◼   ► And if iPhone ever gets reverse wireless charging,

00:16:42 ◼   ► it would charge your phone.

00:16:44 ◼   ► It would charge your wallet the whole time, wouldn't it?

00:16:46 ◼   ► I guess that's true.

00:16:49 ◼   ► Apparently, it'll last months.

00:16:52 ◼   ► And yeah, pretty happy with it.

00:16:54 ◼   ► I got it in black.

00:16:55 ◼   ► The magnet's really good.

00:16:57 ◼   ► Way better than Apple's.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I'm very pleased with it.

00:17:02 ◼   ► It's pricey, but I'm pleased with it for what it is.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Nice.

00:17:07 ◼   ► I can't believe somebody else has made this product.

00:17:12 ◼   ► Like, this is what the Apple wallet should be.

00:17:15 ◼   ► Right?

00:17:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Seems like a bit of a home run, to be honest.

00:17:21 ◼   ► Did I ever tell you guys about the also FindMyCompatible wallet that I have?

00:17:26 ◼   ► I found it via an Instagram ad.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Excellent.

00:17:31 ◼   ► And it seemed too good to be true.

00:17:34 ◼   ► This was last year, by the way.

00:17:36 ◼   ► I purchased it, and it arrived, like, two months later, but it totally works.

00:17:41 ◼   ► It's FindMyCompatible, shows up in FindMy, has this proprietary, like, pogo pin connector

00:17:48 ◼   ► to recharge it every few months.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Like, I think I charge it, like, twice a year or something.

00:17:54 ◼   ► And it's called the Locate.

00:17:56 ◼   ► It's L-O-C-H, just as a number.

00:17:58 ◼   ► Great name.

00:17:59 ◼   ► I saw it.

00:17:59 ◼   ► I just found it, and I didn't realize the name until you said it out loud.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean?

00:18:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:05 ◼   ► Locate.

00:18:06 ◼   ► Oh, L-O-C-H.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Locate.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Fantastic.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:09 ◼   ► And it's nice, because it lets me hold a few cards, some cash if I want to, and shows

00:18:16 ◼   ► up in FindMy, attaches via MagSafe, and it also doubles as a stand.

00:18:19 ◼   ► So, pretty cool.

00:18:21 ◼   ► I have no idea.

00:18:22 ◼   ► Like, I just saw this on an Instagram story.

00:18:25 ◼   ► I was like, hey, this is nice.

00:18:26 ◼   ► I have no idea what this company is, but still, 90 euros, whatever, I'll get it.

00:18:31 ◼   ► And I did.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Waited two months, arrived.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Totally works.

00:18:34 ◼   ► So, nice.

00:18:35 ◼   ► Looks a little chunky in the image.

00:18:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:37 ◼   ► It's not thin.

00:18:39 ◼   ► It's not thin.

00:18:40 ◼   ► But I wanted to have, like, five cards plus some cash if I wanted to.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Right.

00:18:45 ◼   ► And that's exactly what I keep.

00:18:46 ◼   ► And I guess you benefit from it being a kickstand, right?

00:18:49 ◼   ► Like, you lose the fitness, but you get the kickstand.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Yes, of course.

00:18:52 ◼   ► I mean, you know what I mean?

00:18:53 ◼   ► Hang on a minute.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Hang on a minute.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Let me go back to the TG Olympics.

00:18:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:58 ◼   ► New kickstand technology.

00:19:00 ◼   ► I'm going to get a kickstand technology.

00:19:02 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure I said that.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:19:06 ◼   ► Well, you won anyway.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I know, but I want more points.

00:19:09 ◼   ► Okay.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Can we retroactively give you more points?

00:19:13 ◼   ► Obviously.

00:19:15 ◼   ► I mean, the scorecards are interactive, you know, for a reason.

00:19:19 ◼   ► I don't know where to find it.

00:19:21 ◼   ► There's too many games now.

00:19:23 ◼   ► But I'm going to find it, and I'm going to check the word.

00:19:27 ◼   ► These wallets seem nice.

00:19:29 ◼   ► I have a really old, stupid wallet.

00:19:30 ◼   ► My wallet don't do nothing.

00:19:32 ◼   ► It's just, it hasn't got no technology in it at all.

00:19:35 ◼   ► Maybe I should have technology.

00:19:39 ◼   ► People always talk about these cards, right?

00:19:41 ◼   ► Like the Find My Cards.

00:19:42 ◼   ► And it seems like a good idea, but I don't want to give up space in my slim wallet.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Like an entire card's worth of space.

00:19:50 ◼   ► Yeah, that is a bummer.

00:19:52 ◼   ► I mean, I've got one.

00:19:53 ◼   ► It's not a Nomad one.

00:19:54 ◼   ► It's another brand.

00:19:55 ◼   ► But I got one for Mary for her wallet.

00:19:58 ◼   ► But her wallet is like a big thing with a thousand things in it.

00:20:00 ◼   ► In a purse, right?

00:20:02 ◼   ► So it's a little bit different.

00:20:03 ◼   ► I have like one of those really little Belroy ones.

00:20:06 ◼   ► It can have like four things in it.

00:20:08 ◼   ► By the way, it was Federico discovers a new kickstand technology.

00:20:11 ◼   ► It was a passion pick.

00:20:12 ◼   ► I will retroactively claim a point for that one.

00:20:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:20:15 ◼   ► Okay.

00:20:15 ◼   ► Before we move on, can I give you just two quick news from Mark Gurman?

00:20:21 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Breaking news.

00:20:23 ◼   ► The first one is that OpenAI has officially completed its $6.5 billion acquisition of I.O.,

00:20:31 ◼   ► the Johnny I design company.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Oh, they did it.

00:20:33 ◼   ► I.O.

00:20:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:34 ◼   ► So they are officially joining OpenAI as of today.

00:20:37 ◼   ► In the post, do they reference the name of the company?

00:20:39 ◼   ► Because they're not allowed to do that, right?

00:20:40 ◼   ► I think I saw a screenshot of the OpenAI website saying,

00:20:46 ◼   ► we're thrilled to share that the I.O.

00:20:49 ◼   ► Products Inc.

00:20:50 ◼   ► So is this the name now?

00:20:52 ◼   ► I.O.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Products Inc.

00:20:53 ◼   ► I've changed the name to a bad name.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I.O.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Products Incorporated team has officially merged with OpenAI.

00:20:59 ◼   ► Johnny Ivan Loughram remain independent and have assumed deep design and creative

00:21:04 ◼   ► creative responsibilities across OpenAI.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:07 ◼   ► And the second one from Mark Gurman, all caps, new.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Apple ready's refreshed Vision Pro with M4 chip, expanded neural engine, and new strap

00:21:20 ◼   ► for as early as this year.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Lighter redesigned version is coming in 2027.

00:21:25 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:26 ◼   ► This is, he's confirming then what Ming-Chi Kuo spoke about a couple of weeks ago.

00:21:29 ◼   ► Yeah, which is good for Ming-Chi Kuo.

00:21:31 ◼   ► But yeah, okay.

00:21:33 ◼   ► This is good.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I don't even want to, I don't want to have to think about replacing that product.

00:21:41 ◼   ► No.

00:21:42 ◼   ► Right?

00:21:43 ◼   ► So I love that all they're going to do is put a new chip in it in 2020, what was it,

00:21:48 ◼   ► this year?

00:21:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:49 ◼   ► And then a new one in 2027?

00:21:51 ◼   ► Like, great.

00:21:51 ◼   ► That's perfect.

00:21:52 ◼   ► That will work for me.

00:21:54 ◼   ► That'll do.

00:21:57 ◼   ► Federico, over on Mac Stories, y'all have this great page outlining your setups.

00:22:04 ◼   ► I love it.

00:22:05 ◼   ► I love the photos.

00:22:05 ◼   ► I love the changelog, the whole thing.

00:22:07 ◼   ► Changelog is my favorite part.

00:22:09 ◼   ► That's my favorite part.

00:22:10 ◼   ► I love the changelog.

00:22:11 ◼   ► Cool, cool.

00:22:11 ◼   ► It's real good.

00:22:12 ◼   ► I love my changelog.

00:22:14 ◼   ► Yeah, it's got little disclosure triangles.

00:22:15 ◼   ► I love my toggle changelog.

00:22:16 ◼   ► Boop, boop, boop.

00:22:17 ◼   ► That's the sound it makes.

00:22:18 ◼   ► I'm making a lot of sound effects today.

00:22:19 ◼   ► You really are.

00:22:21 ◼   ► It's good.

00:22:21 ◼   ► I love this.

00:22:22 ◼   ► Have you got a soundboard, a professional soundboard?

00:22:24 ◼   ► No, it's just my...

00:22:26 ◼   ► Impossible.

00:22:27 ◼   ► My body is a soundboard.

00:22:28 ◼   ► Impossible.

00:22:29 ◼   ► They're too good.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:22:31 ◼   ► So, there's some things in here that I want to just touch on briefly.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I'm sure y'all will talk about this on App Stories at some point.

00:22:39 ◼   ► But the Mac Studio is there, which you talked about.

00:22:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:43 ◼   ► I noticed, though, that you swapped an 11-inch iPad for a 13-inch iPad.

00:22:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:48 ◼   ► Is that for beta purposes?

00:22:50 ◼   ► That is both for beta purposes, because the 13 is on 26 and the 11 is on iPadOS 18, but

00:22:58 ◼   ► also because I do feel like iPadOS multitasking lends itself better to the bigger screen.

00:23:04 ◼   ► Agreed.

00:23:05 ◼   ► With all the windows, it's just more comfortable when you're using the big iPad.

00:23:10 ◼   ► Let me tell you, though, if you use the 11-inch with Stage Manager and the Magic Keyboard, that is an adorable little computer.

00:23:17 ◼   ► Yeah, it is.

00:23:18 ◼   ► I agree.

00:23:19 ◼   ► I love that tiny little computer of mine that I have now.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Just like impossibly small laptop that, because of the Magic Keyboard, is always uncomfortable to put in your lap, but nevertheless is a great little computer.

00:23:30 ◼   ► I'll give you one more, actually.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:32 ◼   ► I love iPadOS 26 on the iPad Mini.

00:23:35 ◼   ► Excellent.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Yes, he has given me one more.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Way more than I thought I would.

00:23:40 ◼   ► In fact, if Apple made a Magic Keyboard for the iPad Mini, I would totally buy it.

00:23:47 ◼   ► Like a super small netbook.

00:23:50 ◼   ► Wow, that's a word I haven't spoken in a long time.

00:23:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I love the little guy now.

00:24:00 ◼   ► Which is why it's back in the setups page.

00:24:02 ◼   ► Okay.

00:24:03 ◼   ► A couple other just things I wanted to touch on.

00:24:06 ◼   ► The Spigen headstrap for the Vision Pro.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Which headstrap is that?

00:24:10 ◼   ► I couldn't place it.

00:24:12 ◼   ► It's like the Belkin one, but it came out a couple of months before, which is why I got it.

00:24:18 ◼   ► What's the official name?

00:24:20 ◼   ► Apple Vision Pro Series headstrap.

00:24:24 ◼   ► It's just called Headstrap, and it costs 40 bucks.

00:24:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Spigen headstrap.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Very comfortable, very simple, kind of similar to the Belkin one.

00:24:33 ◼   ► I know that Mike told me, you should buy the Belkin one, but I think I'm fine with this one.

00:24:37 ◼   ► I bought the Spigen one, and I bought the Belkin one, and I prefer the Belkin one.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:24:41 ◼   ► The reason I prefer the Belkin one is I found the Spigen one to be really annoying to adjust.

00:24:48 ◼   ► And I couldn't get it to sit right.

00:24:48 ◼   ► And I couldn't get it to sit right.

00:24:50 ◼   ► Like, it still didn't feel very comfortable.

00:24:51 ◼   ► But the Belkin one, it adjusts like one of the Apple Watch bands.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Like, you just, it's like Velcro, and you pull it, and you, you know, to tighten it, and then you loop it back over again.

00:25:03 ◼   ► It's really, the Belkin one, if the Spigen one works for you, great.

00:25:07 ◼   ► But I just, I couldn't get it to sit comfortably.

00:25:09 ◼   ► But the Belkin one is very comfortable.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:25:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:15 ◼   ► Then maybe I should try it, actually.

00:25:17 ◼   ► I really recommend it.

00:25:18 ◼   ► And also, the Belkin bag is great.

00:25:20 ◼   ► The Belkin bag.

00:25:21 ◼   ► The Belkin bag.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Reference acknowledged.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:25:30 ◼   ► Virtue Pro XR glasses.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Veacher.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Veacher.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Veacher.

00:25:38 ◼   ► I can't say it.

00:25:39 ◼   ► Veacher.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Veacher.

00:25:40 ◼   ► Veacher.

00:25:40 ◼   ► And related accessories.

00:25:43 ◼   ► What accessories come with XR glasses?

00:25:45 ◼   ► So, this company, they make a mobile dock that is both an external battery pack with USB-C input and output for video.

00:25:58 ◼   ► So, they recently updated the firmware of the mobile dock to support the Nintendo Switch 2.

00:26:04 ◼   ► So, in one USB-C port, you connect your Nintendo Switch 2.

00:26:08 ◼   ► In one of the other USB-C ports, you connect your glasses.

00:26:11 ◼   ► And you can play Nintendo Switch 2 inside the XR glasses.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Hmm.

00:26:16 ◼   ► And, yeah, it's pretty cool because it also, it's a battery.

00:26:21 ◼   ► It's a 10,000 mAh battery.

00:26:24 ◼   ► So, it lets you play Nintendo Switch 2 for, like, a couple of hours without being connected to power, if you want to.

00:26:29 ◼   ► And it supports output to the Veacher glasses.

00:26:34 ◼   ► But just the Veacher glasses.

00:26:37 ◼   ► This company is Veacher and Xreal, which is the other arguably more popular one.

00:26:43 ◼   ► They have their own, like, little fight at the moment.

00:26:47 ◼   ► I saw Veacher had a series of announcements yesterday to announce, like, four new glasses.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Very confusing lineup, I should say.

00:26:57 ◼   ► The only thing I will tell you is that one of the models is called the Beast.

00:27:00 ◼   ► That is the actual product name.

00:27:02 ◼   ► It's called the Beast.

00:27:03 ◼   ► I really want to put the Beast on my face.

00:27:06 ◼   ► That sounds fantastic.

00:27:07 ◼   ► I'm not kidding.

00:27:08 ◼   ► And even more confusing is that they announced on X and on Reddit, this is where the announcements happened.

00:27:15 ◼   ► They announced one of the other models called the Ultra.

00:27:19 ◼   ► And in the tweet and in the Reddit post, they said, introducing the Ultra, the Beast of XR glasses.

00:27:27 ◼   ► But then they also have another product called the Beast.

00:27:30 ◼   ► So, to paint you a picture, it's been a confusing launch.

00:27:39 ◼   ► So, there's that.

00:27:40 ◼   ► We're trying our best out here, gang.

00:27:46 ◼   ► And I noticed this morning that now the CEOs are, like, fighting on Twitter.

00:27:53 ◼   ► The Xreal CEO is, you know, posting against the Veacher.

00:27:58 ◼   ► Whatever.

00:27:59 ◼   ► I got the old ones.

00:28:01 ◼   ► They're good.

00:28:02 ◼   ► They're 1080p.

00:28:03 ◼   ► They're fine.

00:28:03 ◼   ► So, they have the mobile dock.

00:28:06 ◼   ► And the other accessory, Stephen, is an extension cable.

00:28:09 ◼   ► They make an extension cable because I want to keep the mobile dock on my nightstand.

00:28:13 ◼   ► And the default USB-C cable was, like, a little too short.

00:28:16 ◼   ► And so, I got one of their extensions, too, so that I can play in bed, laying down, and basically, you know, play Mario Kart on the ceiling.

00:28:24 ◼   ► And just have a comfortable length for the cable.

00:28:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:28:29 ◼   ► The Veacher subreddit is very active.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Yes, yes, yes.

00:28:33 ◼   ► Very active.

00:28:35 ◼   ► It's been popping off since yesterday, as you can imagine.

00:28:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:38 ◼   ► It's very confusing.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Very confusing right now, what they announced.

00:28:43 ◼   ► All of these companies are kind of confusing.

00:28:45 ◼   ► And it's like, Mike, to give you an analogy that maybe sort of helps contextualize.

00:28:52 ◼   ► These companies, all of them, really, both Xreal and Veacher and Rokid is another.

00:28:57 ◼   ► They share the same strategy as A and EO when it comes to handheld gaming.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Like, they just release one product after the other with very similar specs, but also some differences.

00:29:09 ◼   ► It's kind of all over the place.

00:29:12 ◼   ► I mean, they have the top pinned post on the Veacher subreddit right now.

00:29:16 ◼   ► is a comparison chart.

00:29:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Of the Pro Luma Luma Pro.

00:29:20 ◼   ► They have a product called the Veacher Pro.

00:29:27 ◼   ► Then they have a product called Veacher Luma.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Then they have a product called Veacher Luma Pro.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Those are three separate products.

00:29:34 ◼   ► These aren't just one product.

00:29:35 ◼   ► These are three separate products.

00:29:37 ◼   ► Then there's the Veacher Luma Ultra, which is described as the beast of glasses.

00:29:43 ◼   ► And then there's the Veacher Luma Beast.

00:29:45 ◼   ► No, sorry.

00:29:47 ◼   ► It's the Veacher Beast.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Sorry, just Veacher Beast.

00:29:50 ◼   ► Even though it's...

00:29:51 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's Veacher Luma Series and Veacher Beast.

00:29:54 ◼   ► And they're also shipping in, like, completely random times.

00:29:57 ◼   ► Yes.

00:29:57 ◼   ► August, September, October, and December.

00:30:00 ◼   ► But, like, the $399 is September.

00:30:03 ◼   ► The $499 is July.

00:30:05 ◼   ► The $599 is August.

00:30:06 ◼   ► And the $549 is October.

00:30:08 ◼   ► It's like, what is happening?

00:30:09 ◼   ► Man.

00:30:10 ◼   ► This is what happens when, like, companies are...

00:30:16 ◼   ► They're trying to be a big deal, right?

00:30:18 ◼   ► Like, so, like, they're trying to do a lot.

00:30:21 ◼   ► And also, the manufacturing is like, we're just getting this in where we can get it in.

00:30:25 ◼   ► And, like, when are we getting the parts?

00:30:27 ◼   ► And we're putting them together and we're getting them out of the door.

00:30:29 ◼   ► And, like, and so it's just, like, it has the look...

00:30:33 ◼   ► Of a big tech company, right?

00:30:35 ◼   ► Because that's actually not too difficult to do now from a marketing perspective, right?

00:30:39 ◼   ► There's so many examples out there.

00:30:41 ◼   ► You can very easily have the look of, like, a well-put-together company.

00:30:46 ◼   ► But then the strategy and the manufacturing and the marketing, that's actually still really hard to do, right?

00:30:52 ◼   ► Because there absolutely should not be four new versions of this product.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Like, no.

00:30:59 ◼   ► Four versions.

00:31:00 ◼   ► And hold on.

00:31:01 ◼   ► Two sizes for each.

00:31:03 ◼   ► Jeez.

00:31:05 ◼   ► What do you need sizes for?

00:31:06 ◼   ► Is that just for the size of your face?

00:31:08 ◼   ► Well, the size of your face and your IPD, which is your interpupillary distance.

00:31:12 ◼   ► Like, yeah.

00:31:13 ◼   ► Which, that's been a whole other thing for me.

00:31:18 ◼   ► Like, I spent some time trying to understand, like, do I need to upgrade my glasses?

00:31:22 ◼   ► Last night, I was like, do I need to upgrade?

00:31:24 ◼   ► And I tried to understand, like, what's my, so I checked my prescription to understand what's my IPD.

00:31:28 ◼   ► And it seems like I'm right there at the limit of what Vitcher considers the small versus the large size.

00:31:37 ◼   ► They're saying that anything about, like, they're saying that the small size is up to a value of 66.

00:31:44 ◼   ► And I'm 66.6 in my prescription, rounded to 67.

00:31:51 ◼   ► And I'm like, I'm not even sure which glasses I'm supposed to buy.

00:31:55 ◼   ► But then I realized, I realized, oh, most of these glasses, they have the same nits as before.

00:32:02 ◼   ► And I basically would only get a resolution bump from, oh, this is the other lovely thing that you're going to get a good chuckle about this one.

00:32:13 ◼   ► They're saying that their new glasses are 4K-like, right?

00:32:17 ◼   ► They're using the expression 4K-like, but their resolution is 1200p.

00:32:23 ◼   ► What's 4K-like, then?

00:32:24 ◼   ► Does it just mean good?

00:32:26 ◼   ► Like, what are they saying?

00:32:27 ◼   ► They're saying, they're saying, no.

00:32:29 ◼   ► So a bunch of people asked them, all right?

00:32:31 ◼   ► A bunch of people asked them on Reddit.

00:32:32 ◼   ► It was like, these are 1200p.

00:32:35 ◼   ► How can you say they're 4K-like?

00:32:36 ◼   ► And they said, well, no, because we had a bunch of people try the new glasses before the announcement.

00:32:43 ◼   ► And they told us, wow, this feel like 4K.

00:32:48 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:32:49 ◼   ► So it's a roguelike.

00:32:52 ◼   ► It's just a game that feels like rogue.

00:32:54 ◼   ► There's no actual.

00:32:55 ◼   ► Like, we're not trying to bag on this company.

00:32:57 ◼   ► But it's like, this is, for me specifically, right?

00:33:00 ◼   ► Like, I don't understand this product class very much.

00:33:04 ◼   ► So the more I look at this comparison chart, like, the less I understand.

00:33:09 ◼   ► Like, the ways in which they differ from each other.

00:33:14 ◼   ► Like, the things that they're telling me are features, like, I don't understand, right?

00:33:19 ◼   ► So the Vita Beast has built-in vision pair 3DOF.

00:33:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:24 ◼   ► One camera 6DOF to be enabled after launch.

00:33:28 ◼   ► It's like, that is a selling point.

00:33:30 ◼   ► And then the Vita Luma Ultra does 6DOF, recommended, it says.

00:33:36 ◼   ► And that's it.

00:33:37 ◼   ► And then supports Pro Neckband.

00:33:40 ◼   ► What is that?

00:33:41 ◼   ► Yeah, they sell a separate $500 thing that you put around your neck.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Why?

00:33:48 ◼   ► What does that do?

00:33:51 ◼   ► It's like a little Android phone, but in the shape of a neckband.

00:34:00 ◼   ► It's got a little computer inside, and it does additional processing, and it has streaming apps, right?

00:34:07 ◼   ► So Disney+, Netflix, YouTube, whatever.

00:34:09 ◼   ► Look, it's all very confusing.

00:34:12 ◼   ► Look, I love this company.

00:34:13 ◼   ► They're on the cutting edge, too, these companies, right?

00:34:15 ◼   ► Like, they absolutely are on the bleeding edge of this technology.

00:34:18 ◼   ► So, like, I know that this is enthusiast technology.

00:34:22 ◼   ► I should not be looking at this comparison chart, because I'm not interested in buying this product.

00:34:26 ◼   ► So, like, you know, I'm not doing this, and I'm just trying to make fun of it.

00:34:29 ◼   ► But it's like, it's funny to me just to look at it and be like, I don't know this world, right?

00:34:34 ◼   ► And, like, I know that if it's on a comparison chart, people that are on the subreddit, which is what this is made for, they're, like, excited about whatever, right?

00:34:42 ◼   ► Yes, yes.

00:34:42 ◼   ► But it's just very funny to me to look at it and be like, I don't know what's going on.

00:34:46 ◼   ► It's great.

00:34:47 ◼   ► I love it.

00:34:48 ◼   ► Good luck to them, you know?

00:34:49 ◼   ► And I know you like it, so I'm happy for you.

00:34:51 ◼   ► I really like the glasses.

00:34:53 ◼   ► I really like both companies, honestly, both Vitor and Xreal.

00:34:56 ◼   ► And I know that Xreal, they have a bunch of other announcements in September.

00:34:59 ◼   ► So it's good to have...

00:35:02 ◼   ► I think it's quite lovely to see this competition, because at the end of the day, these two companies are going to one-up each other, and consumers benefit from that kind of competition.

00:35:09 ◼   ► And, yeah, they're enthusiastic pieces of technology right now.

00:35:13 ◼   ► But it's nice.

00:35:15 ◼   ► It's nice to play Mario Kart on the ceiling.

00:35:16 ◼   ► So at the end of the day, that's what matters.

00:35:18 ◼   ► So, yeah.

00:35:19 ◼   ► Speaking of, actually, so Samsung Unpacked was today.

00:35:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:35:25 ◼   ► So this is when one of the two events that Samsung does a year, because Samsung kind of split their phone line.

00:35:31 ◼   ► They do the foldables in the summer, and then they do the spring, summer, and then they'll do the...

00:35:38 ◼   ► Oh, wait.

00:35:38 ◼   ► No.

00:35:39 ◼   ► It's the other way around, isn't it?

00:35:40 ◼   ► They do the regular phones earlier in the year, and then they do the folding phones later in the year, right?

00:35:45 ◼   ► Yes.

00:35:46 ◼   ► I think so.

00:35:46 ◼   ► The S25 came out already.

00:35:49 ◼   ► So they had that today, and in Samsung's usual way, like, you can watch the event, or you can just go watch the news outlets that you like that have videos on embargo time.

00:35:58 ◼   ► And today was mostly about the Fold 7 and the Flip 7.

00:36:02 ◼   ► So they're two main folding phones.

00:36:04 ◼   ► The Flip 7 is some interesting upgrades.

00:36:08 ◼   ► It's the least exciting one.

00:36:09 ◼   ► You know, this is the one that folds like an old flip phone.

00:36:13 ◼   ► The biggest thing here is that the front of the phone is now all screen.

00:36:18 ◼   ► It's not like a little part of it anymore.

00:36:20 ◼   ► It's all screen.

00:36:21 ◼   ► It's like a four-inch screen.

00:36:22 ◼   ► And there's some brewing controversy about the chip that's going to be in this phone.

00:36:29 ◼   ► So they're moving to one of the, I think there's Samsung-made Exynos processors away from the Snapdragon, the Qualcomm processor.

00:36:38 ◼   ► And so, like, this is going to be the brouhaha for the people that care about this product of, like, what is that like?

00:36:46 ◼   ► Because in past years, you would always compare the two phones.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Because Samsung used to ship Snapdragon and Exynos, depending on where you were in the world.

00:36:54 ◼   ► And the Exynos processor basically always performed worse.

00:36:57 ◼   ► So that would be interesting for people to look at.

00:36:59 ◼   ► But the big story is the Fold 7.

00:37:02 ◼   ► So this is the standard kind of book-like folding phone.

00:37:05 ◼   ► And the kind of the headlines on it is it's super thin.

00:37:09 ◼   ► When unfolded, it's like four millimeters or something.

00:37:13 ◼   ► And when unfolded, it's like about as thick as a regular phone.

00:37:16 ◼   ► They've made the screen more usable on the front.

00:37:20 ◼   ► It's bigger.

00:37:21 ◼   ► It's, again, more like a regular phone.

00:37:22 ◼   ► And when you open it up, it's like an eight-inch screen inside.

00:37:26 ◼   ► And the cameras this time as well are closer to the top-of-the-line cameras than they've been before.

00:37:33 ◼   ► So it's two grand starting.

00:37:36 ◼   ► So they've made it a little bit more expensive.

00:37:38 ◼   ► What's $100 when you're already in for $1,900?

00:37:43 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:37:44 ◼   ► But, like, really, again, it's like what is interesting about this product is it's super thin, super light, very adaptable.

00:37:57 ◼   ► It looks very cool.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And, yeah, I think it's exciting to see because this is like, oh, okay.

00:38:03 ◼   ► Getting closer and closer to this just being, like, a type of product people could own and not be weird, right?

00:38:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the Fold in particular, the thinness is really mind-blowing.

00:38:19 ◼   ► You should go check out the videos.

00:38:21 ◼   ► And it means the camera bump is enormous in terms of, like, the Z axis.

00:38:27 ◼   ► There's a shot in the MKBHD video where it's on the table.

00:38:30 ◼   ► And the rock that this phone has, like, corner-to-corner is just unbelievable.

00:38:36 ◼   ► The other thing that really stood out to me on both phones, maybe more the Flip than the Fold,

00:38:41 ◼   ► is the experience of using the outside screen has gotten much, much better on these.

00:38:47 ◼   ► And now, on the Flip, you are limited to sort of some pre-selected Samsung widgets.

00:38:53 ◼   ► You can't run any app.

00:38:54 ◼   ► It's not a full phone out there on the front.

00:38:57 ◼   ► The Motorola Razr is a little more flexible in what you can do on the outside screen.

00:39:03 ◼   ► But I think these phones are really compelling to use, either open or closed.

00:39:09 ◼   ► And that was not the case in the beginning, right?

00:39:12 ◼   ► The beginning wasn't that useful to use closed, and you were kind of always opening it.

00:39:17 ◼   ► And I would imagine now you can do many more things with it closed and then open it

00:39:21 ◼   ► when you just need to do something with more real estate.

00:39:24 ◼   ► I'm really surprised that they...

00:39:27 ◼   ► I didn't know that, actually.

00:39:28 ◼   ► I didn't notice it in the coverage that I looked at, that it's still not letting you access anything.

00:39:35 ◼   ► That's a weird choice, considering how big the screen is.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's 4.1 inches now on the outside screen on the Flip, which is...

00:39:44 ◼   ► The original iPhone was, what, 3.5 inches?

00:39:47 ◼   ► You know, the resolution and everything's obviously all very different, but it's just kind of funny.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it wasn't a square.

00:39:55 ◼   ► The old iPhone was a square.

00:39:56 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:39:56 ◼   ► It was, yeah, the aspect ratio, a little bit different.

00:39:59 ◼   ► But yeah, they've come a long way, and it makes me excited to see what Apple could do here,

00:40:06 ◼   ► especially in the fold sort of form factor.

00:40:09 ◼   ► The flip is, I think, a little less interesting to me, personally.

00:40:12 ◼   ► My favorite thing that I see when people are, like, talking about the...

00:40:18 ◼   ► I guess the article's written about the potential future Apple folding phone.

00:40:21 ◼   ► They all say, like, without a crease.

00:40:24 ◼   ► They're all like, oh, I won't have a crease.

00:40:27 ◼   ► I don't know where this started, but, like, it's just one of those rumors that just perpetuates

00:40:31 ◼   ► and becomes a thing.

00:40:31 ◼   ► That's not possible.

00:40:33 ◼   ► Like, you need to stop thinking about that, right?

00:40:36 ◼   ► Like, it folds in half.

00:40:37 ◼   ► It will have a crease.

00:40:39 ◼   ► It will.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Like, it might be good.

00:40:41 ◼   ► Like, it might look fine.

00:40:42 ◼   ► And there's the thing.

00:40:43 ◼   ► These phones look fine.

00:40:44 ◼   ► They all look fine now.

00:40:45 ◼   ► Like, the crease is absolutely not a noticeable thing when you use them.

00:40:49 ◼   ► I just find it really funny.

00:40:50 ◼   ► It's like, no crease.

00:40:52 ◼   ► It's like, but how will the screen fold then?

00:40:54 ◼   ► How will that happen?

00:40:56 ◼   ► Like, there will be a crease if you put it under, like, a lamp and, like, look at it from an

00:41:00 ◼   ► angle.

00:41:00 ◼   ► Like, you'll see it.

00:41:01 ◼   ► But it just isn't an issue anymore.

00:41:04 ◼   ► Like, the first folding phone, you could feel it, right?

00:41:07 ◼   ► You run your finger across it, you could feel it.

00:41:09 ◼   ► And they'd get dust caught in them and they'd break.

00:41:11 ◼   ► But, like, it's just, it's not really a problem anymore in the way that people think about it.

00:41:17 ◼   ► Would you agree with that, Federico?

00:41:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:19 ◼   ► Right now, having seen what just the market is putting out, I don't think there's, physically

00:41:28 ◼   ► speaking, a way to avoid a crease when you're folding a panel of this kind.

00:41:33 ◼   ► So, unless Apple really has some major exclusive breakthrough that Samsung did not use in its own products, hey, happy to be proven wrong.

00:41:48 ◼   ► But I think Apple, I think Apple probably found ways to mitigate the crease as much as possible.

00:41:57 ◼   ► But at some point, you're bumping up against what the market is currently offering in the supply chain and also just the laws of physics.

00:42:05 ◼   ► If you're going to fold something, you're most likely going to have a crease when it's unfolded.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Yeah, because I guess unlike some other areas in which Apple have innovated in the past, this really does rely on Samsung and LG, I guess.

00:42:25 ◼   ► It's like, what is the screen panel technology available to you?

00:42:28 ◼   ► And then I guess, I don't know, maybe, you know what though?

00:42:32 ◼   ► Like, maybe they have something going on with Corning, right?

00:42:36 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Because they get like, they invested a lot of money into them, right?

00:42:42 ◼   ► So, they could get first dibs on technology.

00:42:44 ◼   ► So, maybe there's some kind of covering that Corning is creating that would mitigate it in some way.

00:42:51 ◼   ► But I still just, I don't buy it.

00:42:53 ◼   ► Like, but I also don't think it's the problem that people think it is either, right?

00:42:58 ◼   ► That like, I just think that creases aren't an issue anymore.

00:43:00 ◼   ► But it's just a thing that I find to be funny.

00:43:04 ◼   ► But this, I would like to try the Fold 7, just I would like to see how it feels to use.

00:43:10 ◼   ► You know, like I've been, I continue to be really impressed in using the Google Fold, the Pixel Fold that I have.

00:43:17 ◼   ► That I use it mostly like a regular phone, and then I open it up when I want to.

00:43:22 ◼   ► But I'm still aware of the fact that it is thicker than a regular phone, right?

00:43:27 ◼   ► So, I'm really intrigued to try one of these products where it is essentially as thin, or like close to as thin as a regular phone.

00:43:35 ◼   ► And just to see what that feels like, I think that would be pretty cool.

00:43:38 ◼   ► The thing I care more about than the, you know, can I tell where the crease is, is just the longevity and durability of these devices.

00:43:48 ◼   ► I know that's also come a long way.

00:43:50 ◼   ► I mean, early Samsung Folds got destroyed by, you know, one grain of bread put inside them, and then the screens exploded.

00:43:57 ◼   ► Much like my own body, really.

00:43:59 ◼   ► One grain of bread, and things exploded.

00:44:01 ◼   ► But that has come a long way.

00:44:05 ◼   ► But in the meantime, regular slab phones have also become more resilient to water and dust and those things.

00:44:12 ◼   ► And that's something that I would be a little worried about in terms of a daily phone.

00:44:17 ◼   ► I know people who use these, you know, maybe it's not as big of a deal as it seems.

00:44:21 ◼   ► But I think that's something that Apple would probably at least want to try to improve as well.

00:44:27 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know what the, like the water ratings and stuff are on these devices.

00:44:35 ◼   ► It's a good question.

00:44:38 ◼   ► Like, what are they rated to be able to stand?

00:44:42 ◼   ► IP 48?

00:44:44 ◼   ► It's not great.

00:44:47 ◼   ► The Z Fold?

00:44:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:44:51 ◼   ► I don't know what that does.

00:44:52 ◼   ► What is 48?

00:44:53 ◼   ► 48.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Protected against solid objects larger than a millimeter can withstand continuous immersion of water for up to 1.5 meters deep for 30 minutes.

00:45:08 ◼   ► If IP 48 offers water resistance, it does not necessarily mean the device is dust resistant.

00:45:14 ◼   ► By the way, I just read that from Google's AI overview, so do with that what you will.

00:45:21 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:45:22 ◼   ► That's up to you to do your own research on that one.

00:45:24 ◼   ► But there is an element of water resistance, but dust resistance is probably going to be difficult.

00:45:33 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by ZocDoc.

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00:47:21 ◼   ► So we have the third developer beta of iOS 26 and all the other 26 series of operating systems.

00:47:28 ◼   ► And I'm guessing the big news here, the narrative right now is what Apple is doing with or to liquid glass.

00:47:39 ◼   ► In the sense that Apple has been tweaking liquid glass, and in beta 3, we have, in a bunch of different places,

00:47:49 ◼   ► and especially on iOS, a general toning down of some of the glassy effects of liquid glass.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Essentially now, in some appearances of liquid glass, and in some apps only,

00:48:07 ◼   ► there is more of a frosted look to the glass, rather than a heavily translucent look.

00:48:16 ◼   ► This has been, as you can imagine, a cause for debate online,

00:48:22 ◼   ► where some people, including myself, think this is an improvement over some of the previous elements,

00:48:30 ◼   ► of liquid glass that made some parts of iOS kind of hard to read,

00:48:36 ◼   ► some definite legibility issues in the first two betas.

00:48:40 ◼   ► And there are some other people who have a point, by the way, I think,

00:48:45 ◼   ► who are saying, well, but by doing this, you are essentially undoing

00:48:50 ◼   ► what made liquid glass unique and visually stand out in the first few betas.

00:48:56 ◼   ► You know, that extreme, glassy, translucent, liquid look of, you know,

00:49:03 ◼   ► like the floating top bars that were reflecting and refracting everything underneath.

00:49:08 ◼   ► Now everything looks a little more opaque, a little more frosted,

00:49:12 ◼   ► not as much content is reflecting through as it did in the first two betas.

00:49:19 ◼   ► There is, and Stephen, you will appreciate this,

00:49:22 ◼   ► there is some historical precedent here to consider.

00:49:26 ◼   ► Twelve years ago,

00:49:28 ◼   ► in the third beta of iOS 7,

00:49:33 ◼   ► Apple also undid some of the most extreme decisions of iOS 7 at the time.

00:49:41 ◼   ► Beta 3 of iOS 7,

00:49:43 ◼   ► And that's when they made the fonts a little bit thicker, for example.

00:49:47 ◼   ► So they dropped the Helvetica New Ultra Thin font,

00:49:52 ◼   ► and they just went for a thin, but not the ultra thin version, I believe.

00:49:57 ◼   ► And they made some other fonts slightly bolder, you know, that kind of stuff.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And I remember at the time, some people were saying,

00:50:04 ◼   ► oh, I love the ultra, ultra thin, ultra thin, ultra minimal look of iOS 7.

00:50:10 ◼   ► And eventually, Apple sort of landed somewhere in the middle.

00:50:14 ◼   ► And then, of course, they spent the better part of a decade

00:50:17 ◼   ► sort of evolving that iOS 7 design language.

00:50:20 ◼   ► So we're going through all of this again, essentially.

00:50:23 ◼   ► We're living through this again.

00:50:26 ◼   ► What I want to bring to the show, however,

00:50:28 ◼   ► is this idea.

00:50:30 ◼   ► This idea that I cannot, cannot sort of shake right now,

00:50:34 ◼   ► which is,

00:50:35 ◼   ► is liquid glass

00:50:38 ◼   ► the sort of design language

00:50:41 ◼   ► that you can iterate upon,

00:50:44 ◼   ► that you can improve

00:50:45 ◼   ► without compromising

00:50:48 ◼   ► its nature

00:50:50 ◼   ► and its whole marketing

00:50:51 ◼   ► shtick?

00:50:54 ◼   ► Yeah, that's also how I feel.

00:50:58 ◼   ► It's, it's,

00:51:00 ◼   ► it's just really,

00:51:02 ◼   ► it feels really complicated.

00:51:04 ◼   ► I mean,

00:51:07 ◼   ► you just have all these different tensions

00:51:09 ◼   ► in these conversations, right?

00:51:11 ◼   ► You have

00:51:11 ◼   ► what Apple worked on

00:51:13 ◼   ► seemingly for a long time,

00:51:15 ◼   ► I would hope.

00:51:17 ◼   ► You have what they announced,

00:51:19 ◼   ► you have what they shipped,

00:51:20 ◼   ► and then you have how people responded to it.

00:51:22 ◼   ► And

00:51:22 ◼   ► I don't know,

00:51:24 ◼   ► it's a very hard thing,

00:51:25 ◼   ► I'm sure,

00:51:25 ◼   ► to manage

00:51:26 ◼   ► if you're at Apple

00:51:27 ◼   ► and you're trying to sort through

00:51:28 ◼   ► what's working

00:51:30 ◼   ► and what's not working

00:51:31 ◼   ► now that people have

00:51:32 ◼   ► access to this.

00:51:33 ◼   ► I don't envy it.

00:51:35 ◼   ► I don't envy trying to

00:51:36 ◼   ► sort through all that,

00:51:37 ◼   ► but

00:51:38 ◼   ► I think no matter what they do,

00:51:40 ◼   ► they're kind of

00:51:41 ◼   ► going to be in trouble

00:51:41 ◼   ► with somebody.

00:51:44 ◼   ► I'm a little bummed out

00:51:45 ◼   ► about this,

00:51:45 ◼   ► if I'm being honest.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:47 ◼   ► I

00:51:48 ◼   ► I'm a little bit,

00:51:52 ◼   ► I think I'm a little bit

00:51:53 ◼   ► frustrated about it,

00:51:55 ◼   ► really.

00:51:56 ◼   ► I feel like

00:51:58 ◼   ► like it or not,

00:52:01 ◼   ► they had a thing

00:52:02 ◼   ► that they were doing,

00:52:03 ◼   ► and I feel like

00:52:05 ◼   ► where they're going

00:52:07 ◼   ► is just undoing that.

00:52:09 ◼   ► and so it's like,

00:52:09 ◼   ► so what was the point?

00:52:10 ◼   ► And I

00:52:12 ◼   ► I worry

00:52:14 ◼   ► now

00:52:16 ◼   ► that they have

00:52:17 ◼   ► reacted

00:52:19 ◼   ► to criticism

00:52:21 ◼   ► maybe too

00:52:24 ◼   ► far

00:52:25 ◼   ► and not

00:52:27 ◼   ► necessarily

00:52:28 ◼   ► like

00:52:28 ◼   ► fixing it.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Right?

00:52:31 ◼   ► Because

00:52:31 ◼   ► I don't know

00:52:32 ◼   ► what the fix is,

00:52:33 ◼   ► but I

00:52:34 ◼   ► would just

00:52:35 ◼   ► I don't think

00:52:36 ◼   ► anybody really knows.

00:52:37 ◼   ► Lots of people

00:52:39 ◼   ► have lots of ideas

00:52:39 ◼   ► about what the fixes are,

00:52:40 ◼   ► but it doesn't

00:52:41 ◼   ► necessarily work like that.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I just

00:52:44 ◼   ► I feel like

00:52:45 ◼   ► they had a thing

00:52:46 ◼   ► that they were trying to do,

00:52:47 ◼   ► and I think that now

00:52:49 ◼   ► they've moved

00:52:50 ◼   ► further away from that.

00:52:51 ◼   ► And so it's like,

00:52:53 ◼   ► so why

00:52:53 ◼   ► why did we do this then

00:52:55 ◼   ► in the first place?

00:52:56 ◼   ► Right?

00:52:56 ◼   ► Like,

00:52:57 ◼   ► if

00:52:58 ◼   ► your only way

00:53:00 ◼   ► to fix

00:53:01 ◼   ► the readability

00:53:03 ◼   ► of liquid glass

00:53:04 ◼   ► was to not really

00:53:05 ◼   ► make it

00:53:06 ◼   ► like

00:53:07 ◼   ► glassy anymore,

00:53:08 ◼   ► it's to kind of like

00:53:09 ◼   ► frost it,

00:53:10 ◼   ► then why did we ever

00:53:11 ◼   ► start there?

00:53:12 ◼   ► Right?

00:53:13 ◼   ► Like,

00:53:14 ◼   ► if you didn't have

00:53:15 ◼   ► a plan

00:53:15 ◼   ► right?

00:53:16 ◼   ► To like

00:53:17 ◼   ► make it work,

00:53:19 ◼   ► why

00:53:22 ◼   ► how did we get there

00:53:23 ◼   ► in the first place?

00:53:24 ◼   ► that's kind of like

00:53:26 ◼   ► the way that I feel about it.

00:53:26 ◼   ► So I'm like a little bit

00:53:27 ◼   ► frustrated that

00:53:28 ◼   ► if we continue

00:53:30 ◼   ► going down this path

00:53:31 ◼   ► where they're just like

00:53:31 ◼   ► really,

00:53:32 ◼   ► really toning it down,

00:53:33 ◼   ► it's like,

00:53:34 ◼   ► well,

00:53:35 ◼   ► we're not really

00:53:35 ◼   ► redoing a redesign,

00:53:36 ◼   ► are we?

00:53:37 ◼   ► Like,

00:53:37 ◼   ► we're just

00:53:38 ◼   ► like,

00:53:39 ◼   ► where are we

00:53:40 ◼   ► on this scale?

00:53:42 ◼   ► this is useful

00:53:43 ◼   ► this is useful

00:53:43 ◼   ► because I've been

00:53:43 ◼   ► I've been thinking

00:53:45 ◼   ► about how to

00:53:46 ◼   ► write about

00:53:48 ◼   ► liquid glass,

00:53:48 ◼   ► how to approach

00:53:49 ◼   ► liquid glass.

00:53:50 ◼   ► And the thing

00:53:51 ◼   ► I've sort of

00:53:52 ◼   ► been struggling with,

00:53:53 ◼   ► and I always do

00:53:54 ◼   ► struggle with

00:53:55 ◼   ► writing about design,

00:53:56 ◼   ► I think

00:53:56 ◼   ► as a person,

00:53:58 ◼   ► as a writer,

00:53:58 ◼   ► I prefer writing

00:54:00 ◼   ► about using stuff

00:54:01 ◼   ► rather than

00:54:02 ◼   ► talking about

00:54:02 ◼   ► how stuff looks,

00:54:03 ◼   ► but it's part of my job

00:54:05 ◼   ► and I gotta do it.

00:54:06 ◼   ► So I'm thinking

00:54:06 ◼   ► about it.

00:54:07 ◼   ► And this question

00:54:09 ◼   ► that I keep

00:54:10 ◼   ► going back to

00:54:11 ◼   ► is

00:54:12 ◼   ► I'm thinking

00:54:15 ◼   ► of a good way

00:54:15 ◼   ► to phrase it.

00:54:16 ◼   ► What is it

00:54:18 ◼   ► about liquid glass

00:54:19 ◼   ► beyond looking

00:54:21 ◼   ► like liquid glass?

00:54:23 ◼   ► By that I mean

00:54:25 ◼   ► iOS 7

00:54:28 ◼   ► was a

00:54:29 ◼   ► complete makeover

00:54:32 ◼   ► of what

00:54:33 ◼   ► interfaces

00:54:34 ◼   ► were supposed

00:54:34 ◼   ► to look like,

00:54:35 ◼   ► right?

00:54:36 ◼   ► Now we're not

00:54:37 ◼   ► having that

00:54:37 ◼   ► complete makeover

00:54:38 ◼   ► here.

00:54:39 ◼   ► Like the way,

00:54:40 ◼   ► you know,

00:54:41 ◼   ► by and large

00:54:42 ◼   ► we still have

00:54:43 ◼   ► that sort of

00:54:44 ◼   ► like neutral

00:54:45 ◼   ► flat aesthetic

00:54:47 ◼   ► in user interfaces.

00:54:48 ◼   ► So we're changing

00:54:50 ◼   ► the look of

00:54:51 ◼   ► some of the elements,

00:54:51 ◼   ► some of the UI

00:54:52 ◼   ► Chrome

00:54:53 ◼   ► around content.

00:54:54 ◼   ► But what is it

00:54:56 ◼   ► about liquid?

00:54:56 ◼   ► Is there

00:54:58 ◼   ► anything else

00:54:59 ◼   ► to liquid glass

00:55:00 ◼   ► beyond

00:55:01 ◼   ► the fact

00:55:03 ◼   ► that it looks

00:55:03 ◼   ► like liquid glass?

00:55:05 ◼   ► does there need

00:55:06 ◼   ► to be?

00:55:08 ◼   ► Yeah,

00:55:09 ◼   ► that is exactly

00:55:11 ◼   ► what I wrote

00:55:11 ◼   ► today

00:55:12 ◼   ► in my notes.

00:55:13 ◼   ► When we talk

00:55:15 ◼   ► about Apple

00:55:16 ◼   ► design,

00:55:16 ◼   ► when we talk

00:55:17 ◼   ► about design

00:55:18 ◼   ► in general,

00:55:18 ◼   ► right?

00:55:19 ◼   ► One can make

00:55:21 ◼   ► the argument

00:55:22 ◼   ► that nice

00:55:23 ◼   ► things

00:55:24 ◼   ► in life,

00:55:25 ◼   ► and I'm generalizing

00:55:26 ◼   ► here,

00:55:26 ◼   ► but stay with me.

00:55:27 ◼   ► One could argue

00:55:28 ◼   ► that in life

00:55:28 ◼   ► nice things

00:55:29 ◼   ► are just supposed

00:55:30 ◼   ► to look like

00:55:31 ◼   ► nice things,

00:55:32 ◼   ► people buy

00:55:33 ◼   ► expensive sneakers

00:55:34 ◼   ► or jewelry

00:55:36 ◼   ► or a painting,

00:55:38 ◼   ► whatever,

00:55:38 ◼   ► because it looks

00:55:40 ◼   ► good and it

00:55:41 ◼   ► doesn't serve

00:55:41 ◼   ► any purpose,

00:55:42 ◼   ► right?

00:55:42 ◼   ► One could say

00:55:45 ◼   ► that art

00:55:46 ◼   ► is useless,

00:55:46 ◼   ► but it's also

00:55:47 ◼   ► good for the soul

00:55:48 ◼   ► in many ways,

00:55:49 ◼   ► right?

00:55:49 ◼   ► It's not supposed

00:55:51 ◼   ► to serve any

00:55:51 ◼   ► functional purpose.

00:55:52 ◼   ► So if you look

00:55:54 ◼   ► at liquid glass

00:55:54 ◼   ► through that lens,

00:55:56 ◼   ► you can say,

00:55:57 ◼   ► well,

00:55:57 ◼   ► it's not supposed

00:55:58 ◼   ► to be anything

00:55:59 ◼   ► more than it is.

00:56:00 ◼   ► It's just liquid glass.

00:56:01 ◼   ► But are we talking

00:56:06 ◼   ► about a painting

00:56:07 ◼   ► here or are we

00:56:09 ◼   ► talking about

00:56:10 ◼   ► an operating system

00:56:11 ◼   ► for a computer

00:56:12 ◼   ► that you're supposed

00:56:13 ◼   ► to use?

00:56:14 ◼   ► Should we approach

00:56:16 ◼   ► this from a simple

00:56:18 ◼   ► artistic,

00:56:19 ◼   ► almost artistic

00:56:20 ◼   ► standpoint?

00:56:21 ◼   ► Like just evaluate

00:56:23 ◼   ► and judge

00:56:24 ◼   ► the visual

00:56:25 ◼   ► merits of it?

00:56:26 ◼   ► Or should we

00:56:29 ◼   ► consider software

00:56:29 ◼   ► design something

00:56:31 ◼   ► in the middle

00:56:32 ◼   ► of it's supposed

00:56:33 ◼   ► to look nice,

00:56:34 ◼   ► it's supposed

00:56:35 ◼   ► to be usable,

00:56:35 ◼   ► and it's supposed

00:56:36 ◼   ► to be functional?

00:56:37 ◼   ► And I'm struggling

00:56:40 ◼   ► with that.

00:56:40 ◼   ► And I'm struggling

00:56:41 ◼   ► in coming to terms

00:56:42 ◼   ► with that definition.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Like how am I

00:56:44 ◼   ► supposed to evaluate

00:56:45 ◼   ► a design that

00:56:46 ◼   ► by and large

00:56:49 ◼   ► beyond how

00:56:50 ◼   ► it looks

00:56:51 ◼   ► it's just

00:56:54 ◼   ► there.

00:56:54 ◼   ► It's how it

00:56:55 ◼   ► looks.

00:56:55 ◼   ► I think there

00:56:59 ◼   ► is nothing

00:56:59 ◼   ► wrong with

00:57:00 ◼   ► them doing

00:57:02 ◼   ► a redesign

00:57:02 ◼   ► just to look

00:57:04 ◼   ► better or

00:57:05 ◼   ► like to look

00:57:06 ◼   ► different.

00:57:06 ◼   ► I think that

00:57:07 ◼   ► is perfectly

00:57:08 ◼   ► valid as a

00:57:09 ◼   ► thing.

00:57:09 ◼   ► I don't,

00:57:11 ◼   ► you know,

00:57:12 ◼   ► obviously,

00:57:13 ◼   ► and what they're

00:57:14 ◼   ► fighting against

00:57:15 ◼   ► right now is

00:57:16 ◼   ► the belief,

00:57:18 ◼   ► the perception,

00:57:20 ◼   ► or the

00:57:22 ◼   ► combination of

00:57:22 ◼   ► the three,

00:57:23 ◼   ► the iOS 26

00:57:24 ◼   ► is less usable,

00:57:25 ◼   ► right?

00:57:26 ◼   ► And that's my

00:57:27 ◼   ► point.

00:57:27 ◼   ► Like, I get

00:57:29 ◼   ► the argument

00:57:29 ◼   ► that, hey,

00:57:30 ◼   ► make something

00:57:31 ◼   ► nice, and that's

00:57:32 ◼   ► all there is to

00:57:33 ◼   ► it.

00:57:33 ◼   ► It looks nice.

00:57:34 ◼   ► And I do think

00:57:35 ◼   ► that liquid glass

00:57:36 ◼   ► looks, especially

00:57:37 ◼   ► the first version,

00:57:38 ◼   ► look beautiful.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Like, I think it

00:57:40 ◼   ► is a marvel what

00:57:41 ◼   ► they've been able

00:57:41 ◼   ► to achieve.

00:57:42 ◼   ► You know, how it

00:57:43 ◼   ► animates in real

00:57:44 ◼   ► time on a phone,

00:57:45 ◼   ► you know, at

00:57:46 ◼   ► 120 hertz,

00:57:47 ◼   ► looks fantastic.

00:57:48 ◼   ► But what

00:57:50 ◼   ► happens when

00:57:51 ◼   ► that makes,

00:57:53 ◼   ► you know,

00:57:55 ◼   ► something less

00:57:56 ◼   ► legible, for

00:57:57 ◼   ► example?

00:57:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I think

00:58:03 ◼   ► that there is a

00:58:03 ◼   ► legibility scale,

00:58:04 ◼   ► right, for the

00:58:06 ◼   ► average person.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Sure.

00:58:09 ◼   ► Right?

00:58:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:11 ◼   ► And they've

00:58:13 ◼   ► got to find

00:58:14 ◼   ► their spot on

00:58:14 ◼   ► that scale.

00:58:15 ◼   ► I think that

00:58:16 ◼   ► they could push

00:58:17 ◼   ► it back a little

00:58:18 ◼   ► bit further than

00:58:20 ◼   ► where they've

00:58:20 ◼   ► ended up, and

00:58:21 ◼   ► it would be

00:58:21 ◼   ► good.

00:58:22 ◼   ► And then they've

00:58:24 ◼   ► just got to

00:58:24 ◼   ► work on, and

00:58:25 ◼   ► they already do,

00:58:26 ◼   ► but they've just

00:58:27 ◼   ► got to work on

00:58:27 ◼   ► having the

00:58:28 ◼   ► accessibility stuff

00:58:29 ◼   ► for people that

00:58:30 ◼   ► need that.

00:58:30 ◼   ► I think that

00:58:31 ◼   ► there is a way

00:58:32 ◼   ► to still get

00:58:33 ◼   ► this to be fun

00:58:34 ◼   ► and exciting and

00:58:35 ◼   ► look really good

00:58:36 ◼   ► and be legible.

00:58:38 ◼   ► Like, I don't

00:58:38 ◼   ► know what that

00:58:39 ◼   ► answer is, but

00:58:39 ◼   ► I have full

00:58:41 ◼   ► faith that they

00:58:42 ◼   ► can work it

00:58:42 ◼   ► out, but I

00:58:44 ◼   ► hope that they

00:58:44 ◼   ► do, because I

00:58:45 ◼   ► just think it

00:58:46 ◼   ► would be, it

00:58:47 ◼   ► would be really,

00:58:48 ◼   ► I would be really

00:58:49 ◼   ► disappointed if we

00:58:50 ◼   ► end up with

00:58:50 ◼   ► something that

00:58:51 ◼   ► looks like

00:58:52 ◼   ► essentially like

00:58:53 ◼   ► iOS 18.

00:58:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:55 ◼   ► But it's a bit

00:58:57 ◼   ► more rounded.

00:58:58 ◼   ► Like, that would

00:58:59 ◼   ► be really

00:59:00 ◼   ► disappointing to

00:59:01 ◼   ► me.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

00:59:03 ◼   ► I liked a lot

00:59:05 ◼   ► of it, even

00:59:07 ◼   ► knowing that it

00:59:08 ◼   ► was problematic

00:59:09 ◼   ► from a legibility

00:59:10 ◼   ► standpoint in

00:59:11 ◼   ► places.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I think part of

00:59:13 ◼   ► this debate, but

00:59:15 ◼   ► two things.

00:59:16 ◼   ► One, I think part

00:59:17 ◼   ► of this debate is

00:59:18 ◼   ► happening because

00:59:18 ◼   ► Apple themselves

00:59:20 ◼   ► didn't do a very

00:59:20 ◼   ► good job explaining

00:59:21 ◼   ► why they did it.

00:59:23 ◼   ► Strong agree.

00:59:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:59:25 ◼   ► I re-watched that

00:59:27 ◼   ► Liquid Glass video

00:59:28 ◼   ► a couple of times,

00:59:30 ◼   ► and I think I said

00:59:31 ◼   ► this last time,

00:59:31 ◼   ► went back and

00:59:32 ◼   ► re-watched the

00:59:32 ◼   ► Aqua introduction,

00:59:33 ◼   ► and there are

00:59:34 ◼   ► parts of the

00:59:35 ◼   ► Aqua introduction

00:59:35 ◼   ► where Jobs is

00:59:36 ◼   ► like, yeah, it

00:59:36 ◼   ► looks sick.

00:59:37 ◼   ► Like, look how

00:59:37 ◼   ► cool this is.

00:59:38 ◼   ► But all we've

00:59:40 ◼   ► through there are

00:59:40 ◼   ► like little

00:59:41 ◼   ► examples of why

00:59:42 ◼   ► things were the

00:59:43 ◼   ► way that they

00:59:44 ◼   ► were, and

00:59:45 ◼   ► this, it

00:59:48 ◼   ► kind of feels

00:59:49 ◼   ► as, again,

00:59:52 ◼   ► coming from

00:59:52 ◼   ► somebody who

00:59:52 ◼   ► generally liked

00:59:53 ◼   ► it in beta

00:59:54 ◼   ► one and beta

00:59:54 ◼   ► two, as a,

00:59:56 ◼   ► well, we

00:59:57 ◼   ► thought, we

00:59:58 ◼   ► just did it

00:59:58 ◼   ► because it was

00:59:59 ◼   ► cool and there's

00:59:59 ◼   ► no real reason

01:00:00 ◼   ► behind it, and

01:00:00 ◼   ► to Federico's

01:00:01 ◼   ► point, and

01:00:03 ◼   ► you all said

01:00:03 ◼   ► this on App

01:00:04 ◼   ► stories too, I

01:00:04 ◼   ► think, iOS

01:00:07 ◼   ► 18 and 26

01:00:08 ◼   ► are the same

01:00:09 ◼   ► structurally.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Like, this

01:00:10 ◼   ► doesn't introduce

01:00:11 ◼   ► any new paradigms

01:00:14 ◼   ► outside of maybe

01:00:15 ◼   ► tab bars can be

01:00:17 ◼   ► like, closed off on

01:00:18 ◼   ► the side and then

01:00:19 ◼   ► expand.

01:00:19 ◼   ► But that's really

01:00:20 ◼   ► basically it.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Which also, like,

01:00:22 ◼   ► it's one of the

01:00:23 ◼   ► most annoying things

01:00:24 ◼   ► about Liquid Glass,

01:00:25 ◼   ► in my opinion, is

01:00:26 ◼   ► that now every

01:00:26 ◼   ► single time I'm

01:00:27 ◼   ► using music, for

01:00:28 ◼   ► example, I gotta tap

01:00:29 ◼   ► twice to change

01:00:31 ◼   ► sections.

01:00:31 ◼   ► I don't like it

01:00:32 ◼   ► in Safari.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Safari, it really

01:00:34 ◼   ► bothers me.

01:00:34 ◼   ► There are some

01:00:35 ◼   ► stuff like the

01:00:36 ◼   ► popovers becoming

01:00:37 ◼   ► better laid out.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Yeah, they're

01:00:39 ◼   ► nicer, they're

01:00:40 ◼   ► nicer, for sure.

01:00:40 ◼   ► But these aren't

01:00:41 ◼   ► Liquid Glass

01:00:42 ◼   ► things, right?

01:00:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Like, because

01:00:44 ◼   ► they're like a

01:00:45 ◼   ► bunch of things

01:00:45 ◼   ► in the system,

01:00:46 ◼   ► it's like, oh,

01:00:46 ◼   ► this is laid out

01:00:47 ◼   ► better, like, the

01:00:47 ◼   ► share sheet's

01:00:48 ◼   ► better, but, like,

01:00:48 ◼   ► that's not Liquid

01:00:49 ◼   ► Glass, that's just

01:00:50 ◼   ► an operating system

01:00:51 ◼   ► update.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Yes.

01:00:52 ◼   ► Right?

01:00:52 ◼   ► You just move

01:00:53 ◼   ► the way things

01:00:54 ◼   ► work, like, it

01:00:55 ◼   ► didn't need this to

01:00:56 ◼   ► do that, like, you've

01:00:57 ◼   ► not enabled

01:00:58 ◼   ► something that

01:00:59 ◼   ► couldn't have

01:01:00 ◼   ► existed otherwise.

01:01:01 ◼   ► Yeah, so that

01:01:02 ◼   ► was kind of

01:01:03 ◼   ► thought one.

01:01:04 ◼   ► The second thing

01:01:07 ◼   ► that I wanted to

01:01:07 ◼   ► comment on, I've

01:01:09 ◼   ► seen a lot of

01:01:10 ◼   ► people, especially

01:01:10 ◼   ► on Threads, my

01:01:11 ◼   ► Threads algorithm

01:01:11 ◼   ► is basically people

01:01:12 ◼   ► with takes on

01:01:13 ◼   ► Apple design, which

01:01:14 ◼   ► is fantastic.

01:01:14 ◼   ► It could be way

01:01:16 ◼   ► worse, so I'll

01:01:17 ◼   ► take it.

01:01:17 ◼   ► A lot of people

01:01:19 ◼   ► have suggested,

01:01:20 ◼   ► well, Apple just

01:01:21 ◼   ► needs a slider, and

01:01:23 ◼   ► on one end is

01:01:25 ◼   ► opaque, and the

01:01:26 ◼   ► other end is

01:01:26 ◼   ► transparent, and

01:01:28 ◼   ► the user can

01:01:28 ◼   ► choose.

01:01:29 ◼   ► And from a

01:01:31 ◼   ► certain point of

01:01:31 ◼   ► view, that's not

01:01:32 ◼   ► a bad idea, if

01:01:34 ◼   ► that's how you, I

01:01:35 ◼   ► think you can

01:01:36 ◼   ► handle accessibility

01:01:37 ◼   ► in a much smarter

01:01:37 ◼   ► way than that, but

01:01:39 ◼   ► No, I think that's a

01:01:41 ◼   ► bad idea.

01:01:41 ◼   ► I do, too.

01:01:44 ◼   ► Like, I see how

01:01:45 ◼   ► people get there, but

01:01:47 ◼   ► that's not design.

01:01:48 ◼   ► That's handing the

01:01:50 ◼   ► tools over to the

01:01:51 ◼   ► user in a way that

01:01:52 ◼   ► actually doesn't

01:01:53 ◼   ► make any sense, and

01:01:54 ◼   ► would make the

01:01:55 ◼   ► lives of developers

01:01:56 ◼   ► really difficult.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Yes.

01:01:58 ◼   ► And so, I don't

01:02:00 ◼   ► think that's a

01:02:01 ◼   ► solution either.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Here's a question.

01:02:03 ◼   ► Here's a question.

01:02:04 ◼   ► In a, thankfully,

01:02:08 ◼   ► more accessible and

01:02:11 ◼   ► inclusive world,

01:02:13 ◼   ► hopefully, thankfully

01:02:16 ◼   ► and hopefully, it

01:02:17 ◼   ► should be more

01:02:18 ◼   ► accessible and

01:02:18 ◼   ► inclusive, is there

01:02:20 ◼   ► still room for

01:02:21 ◼   ► really, really

01:02:24 ◼   ► opinionated design?

01:02:26 ◼   ► If you were going

01:02:28 ◼   ► for maximum

01:02:29 ◼   ► accessibility, no.

01:02:32 ◼   ► Right?

01:02:36 ◼   ► Like, you would, I

01:02:38 ◼   ► feel like, just on

01:02:39 ◼   ► the face of that

01:02:39 ◼   ► question, my answer

01:02:40 ◼   ► would be, if you

01:02:41 ◼   ► were going for

01:02:41 ◼   ► absolute maximum

01:02:43 ◼   ► accessibility, on

01:02:46 ◼   ► without any

01:02:47 ◼   ► tweaks, right?

01:02:48 ◼   ► Like, that's kind

01:02:49 ◼   ► of what we're

01:02:49 ◼   ► saying here.

01:02:50 ◼   ► Like, there's no

01:02:51 ◼   ► settings, right?

01:02:53 ◼   ► Like, it's just, the

01:02:54 ◼   ► UI works for

01:02:55 ◼   ► everyone?

01:02:56 ◼   ► I mean, even then

01:02:59 ◼   ► color is a problem,

01:03:00 ◼   ► right?

01:03:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:01 ◼   ► So, I feel like

01:03:04 ◼   ► you, yeah, I

01:03:06 ◼   ► actually think that's

01:03:06 ◼   ► not possible.

01:03:07 ◼   ► I actually don't

01:03:08 ◼   ► think you could do

01:03:09 ◼   ► it, because you,

01:03:09 ◼   ► you, I don't think

01:03:11 ◼   ► anyone can fully

01:03:13 ◼   ► conceive of every

01:03:14 ◼   ► accessibility request

01:03:16 ◼   ► on their own,

01:03:17 ◼   ► right?

01:03:18 ◼   ► Like, I don't

01:03:19 ◼   ► think you can

01:03:20 ◼   ► really be, you

01:03:22 ◼   ► can't be daring, at

01:03:23 ◼   ► least, can you?

01:03:23 ◼   ► Right?

01:03:24 ◼   ► Like, you can't be

01:03:24 ◼   ► like, oh, I'm going

01:03:25 ◼   ► to do something new,

01:03:26 ◼   ► because how do you

01:03:26 ◼   ► know if that's going

01:03:27 ◼   ► to work for

01:03:27 ◼   ► everybody?

01:03:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:29 ◼   ► I guess what I was

01:03:30 ◼   ► trying to, trying

01:03:33 ◼   ► to infer with that

01:03:35 ◼   ► was, I think it was

01:03:36 ◼   ► maybe easier for

01:03:37 ◼   ► Apple to be the

01:03:39 ◼   ► really opinionated

01:03:42 ◼   ► design company

01:03:43 ◼   ► when they were

01:03:45 ◼   ► not operating at

01:03:46 ◼   ► this scale.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Absolutely.

01:03:48 ◼   ► Yes.

01:03:49 ◼   ► And now, what,

01:03:51 ◼   ► well, I think

01:03:52 ◼   ► Liquid Glass is

01:03:53 ◼   ► emblematic of that,

01:03:55 ◼   ► in the sense that

01:03:56 ◼   ► they try to do

01:03:59 ◼   ► something pretty

01:04:01 ◼   ► opinionated, I

01:04:02 ◼   ► think, you know,

01:04:03 ◼   ► why don't we make

01:04:04 ◼   ► every UI element

01:04:05 ◼   ► behave, you know,

01:04:06 ◼   ► from a physics

01:04:07 ◼   ► perspective, some

01:04:08 ◼   ► somewhere in the

01:04:09 ◼   ► middle of a liquid

01:04:10 ◼   ► and glass.

01:04:11 ◼   ► that's a pretty

01:04:12 ◼   ► cool idea, but

01:04:13 ◼   ► then you're bumping

01:04:13 ◼   ► up against the

01:04:14 ◼   ► reality of so many

01:04:16 ◼   ► different people

01:04:17 ◼   ► using all of your

01:04:19 ◼   ► products, because

01:04:20 ◼   ► you're doing this

01:04:21 ◼   ► design across the

01:04:22 ◼   ► entire lineup and

01:04:23 ◼   ► giving you feedback,

01:04:24 ◼   ► right?

01:04:25 ◼   ► And so, like,

01:04:26 ◼   ► right now, right

01:04:28 ◼   ► now, I want to see

01:04:29 ◼   ► when, when, I'm

01:04:31 ◼   ► guessing that the

01:04:33 ◼   ► public beta will

01:04:34 ◼   ► come out next week,

01:04:35 ◼   ► I don't know, but I

01:04:37 ◼   ► want to see what

01:04:37 ◼   ► whatever they end up

01:04:38 ◼   ► doing, because I

01:04:40 ◼   ► feel like right

01:04:41 ◼   ► now, they have all

01:04:43 ◼   ► this feedback coming

01:04:44 ◼   ► in from people

01:04:44 ◼   ► saying, no, it's not

01:04:45 ◼   ► accessible enough, or

01:04:46 ◼   ► no, I prefer it

01:04:47 ◼   ► better in beta 1, and

01:04:49 ◼   ► people saying, eh, it

01:04:51 ◼   ► kind of looks the

01:04:51 ◼   ► same, and

01:04:52 ◼   ► anecdotally speaking,

01:04:53 ◼   ► I'll give you two

01:04:55 ◼   ► examples.

01:04:55 ◼   ► When I came back

01:04:56 ◼   ► from WWDC, I

01:04:58 ◼   ► showed my phone

01:04:59 ◼   ► running beta 1 of

01:05:00 ◼   ► 26 with liquid

01:05:01 ◼   ► glass to Sylvia, and

01:05:03 ◼   ► so I was, you know,

01:05:04 ◼   ► showing off the UI,

01:05:05 ◼   ► the top bars,

01:05:05 ◼   ► notifications, and

01:05:07 ◼   ► all that, and she

01:05:07 ◼   ► was like, she

01:05:08 ◼   ► literally said, in

01:05:09 ◼   ► Italian, I'm

01:05:09 ◼   ► translating, she

01:05:10 ◼   ► literally said, oh,

01:05:11 ◼   ► that's cool, but

01:05:11 ◼   ► why?

01:05:11 ◼   ► So that was, that

01:05:13 ◼   ► was her first

01:05:14 ◼   ► question, and then

01:05:15 ◼   ► I, I went to see

01:05:16 ◼   ► my friends, and I

01:05:17 ◼   ► was like, oh, do

01:05:18 ◼   ► you have the new, do

01:05:19 ◼   ► you have the new, the

01:05:20 ◼   ► new iOS?

01:05:21 ◼   ► I was like, yeah,

01:05:22 ◼   ► yeah, sure, let me

01:05:23 ◼   ► demo it for you, and

01:05:24 ◼   ► they were looking at

01:05:25 ◼   ► it, and, and they

01:05:26 ◼   ► said, oh, but it

01:05:28 ◼   ► doesn't look that

01:05:29 ◼   ► different.

01:05:29 ◼   ► So, I mean.

01:05:32 ◼   ► But that's a win,

01:05:32 ◼   ► right?

01:05:34 ◼   ► Is it?

01:05:34 ◼   ► Yes.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Is it?

01:05:36 ◼   ► Because people that

01:05:36 ◼   ► care will know, right?

01:05:38 ◼   ► And I think that's

01:05:39 ◼   ► what they're working

01:05:39 ◼   ► for at this point,

01:05:41 ◼   ► right?

01:05:41 ◼   ► Because they can't,

01:05:43 ◼   ► they can't, again, do

01:05:45 ◼   ► what they did for

01:05:46 ◼   ► iOS 7.

01:05:47 ◼   ► They can't, you

01:05:48 ◼   ► can't, for the

01:05:48 ◼   ► reason you just

01:05:48 ◼   ► mentioned, too big

01:05:49 ◼   ► now.

01:05:49 ◼   ► They can't be like,

01:05:51 ◼   ► hey, it's all

01:05:53 ◼   ► changed, right?

01:05:54 ◼   ► Like, what's a

01:05:55 ◼   ► button?

01:05:55 ◼   ► What about a word?

01:05:56 ◼   ► Like, they can't,

01:05:57 ◼   ► they can't do that

01:05:59 ◼   ► anymore, right?

01:06:00 ◼   ► So, like, it

01:06:01 ◼   ► actually is

01:06:02 ◼   ► beneficial if you

01:06:03 ◼   ► get somewhere

01:06:04 ◼   ► along the line

01:06:05 ◼   ► of, oh, okay,

01:06:06 ◼   ► that looks nice,

01:06:07 ◼   ► or I don't see

01:06:08 ◼   ► this.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Like, that's

01:06:09 ◼   ► essentially where

01:06:09 ◼   ► they need to be

01:06:10 ◼   ► operating within,

01:06:11 ◼   ► which is why I

01:06:12 ◼   ► think they went

01:06:13 ◼   ► with, it's not a

01:06:15 ◼   ► structural redesign.

01:06:16 ◼   ► It's not, like, a

01:06:18 ◼   ► whole new way to

01:06:19 ◼   ► use apps, because

01:06:20 ◼   ► they know they're

01:06:20 ◼   ► not going to get

01:06:21 ◼   ► people to get on

01:06:21 ◼   ► board with that.

01:06:22 ◼   ► It's like, a

01:06:24 ◼   ► material.

01:06:24 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a

01:06:26 ◼   ► material, right?

01:06:27 ◼   ► And the material

01:06:28 ◼   ► meaning, like, the

01:06:29 ◼   ► UI looks different.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Here's where I

01:06:30 ◼   ► wish, I have two

01:06:32 ◼   ► thoughts that have

01:06:33 ◼   ► been going over my

01:06:33 ◼   ► head and listening to

01:06:34 ◼   ► you talk, right?

01:06:34 ◼   ► Like, one, going back

01:06:35 ◼   ► to what you said,

01:06:36 ◼   ► Stephen, about the

01:06:37 ◼   ► introduction, I wish

01:06:38 ◼   ► they would have had

01:06:38 ◼   ► the conviction to

01:06:39 ◼   ► just say, hey, we

01:06:40 ◼   ► think this looks

01:06:41 ◼   ► cool, and so we

01:06:42 ◼   ► want to do this,

01:06:42 ◼   ► right?

01:06:43 ◼   ► I wish they would

01:06:44 ◼   ► have just done

01:06:45 ◼   ► that.

01:06:45 ◼   ► And I feel like

01:06:46 ◼   ► what we saw was

01:06:49 ◼   ► the result of too

01:06:50 ◼   ► much internal

01:06:50 ◼   ► arguing about how

01:06:51 ◼   ► to sell this to

01:06:52 ◼   ► customers.

01:06:52 ◼   ► What we saw was a

01:06:54 ◼   ► guy holding a

01:06:55 ◼   ► bunch of glass

01:06:55 ◼   ► objects over pieces

01:06:56 ◼   ► of paper.

01:06:57 ◼   ► And that's the

01:06:58 ◼   ► argument.

01:06:59 ◼   ► I think that that

01:07:01 ◼   ► is the result of

01:07:02 ◼   ► like, they can't

01:07:03 ◼   ► just say, we

01:07:04 ◼   ► think this looks

01:07:05 ◼   ► nice.

01:07:05 ◼   ► They have to be

01:07:06 ◼   ► like, we

01:07:06 ◼   ► observe real

01:07:07 ◼   ► life.

01:07:07 ◼   ► They have to

01:07:09 ◼   ► really make it

01:07:09 ◼   ► more because they

01:07:10 ◼   ► have to try and

01:07:11 ◼   ► tell you there's a

01:07:11 ◼   ► reason.

01:07:12 ◼   ► And I also feel

01:07:13 ◼   ► like at this point,

01:07:14 ◼   ► I wish that they

01:07:15 ◼   ► would have said, we

01:07:16 ◼   ► have a new UI

01:07:17 ◼   ► material, it's

01:07:18 ◼   ► called Liquid.

01:07:18 ◼   ► That's it.

01:07:20 ◼   ► And just, I

01:07:21 ◼   ► really went heavy

01:07:22 ◼   ► on the animation.

01:07:23 ◼   ► Like, everything's

01:07:24 ◼   ► moving around and

01:07:25 ◼   ► it's all fun.

01:07:26 ◼   ► if they would

01:07:27 ◼   ► have just not

01:07:28 ◼   ► had the

01:07:28 ◼   ► transparency, which

01:07:30 ◼   ► I know they

01:07:30 ◼   ► desperately want

01:07:31 ◼   ► to do, but if

01:07:31 ◼   ► they would have

01:07:32 ◼   ► not had any

01:07:32 ◼   ► transparency, it

01:07:34 ◼   ► wouldn't be in

01:07:34 ◼   ► this mess, right?

01:07:35 ◼   ► Because it's like,

01:07:36 ◼   ► even now, right?

01:07:37 ◼   ► Like, people are

01:07:38 ◼   ► like, ah, beta

01:07:39 ◼   ► three has fixed

01:07:39 ◼   ► it.

01:07:39 ◼   ► I still can't

01:07:40 ◼   ► read my

01:07:40 ◼   ► notifications.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Yeah, the

01:07:42 ◼   ► lock screen is

01:07:43 ◼   ► still a bit of a

01:07:45 ◼   ► mess.

01:07:46 ◼   ► It's just, they

01:07:47 ◼   ► are scrambling

01:07:49 ◼   ► right now, right?

01:07:50 ◼   ► I'm telling you,

01:07:51 ◼   ► I really do think

01:07:54 ◼   ► they're going to

01:07:54 ◼   ► put in a toggle.

01:07:55 ◼   ► They're going to

01:07:56 ◼   ► opt you in by

01:07:56 ◼   ► default into

01:07:57 ◼   ► liquid glass, but

01:07:58 ◼   ► you're going to

01:07:58 ◼   ► be a toggle to

01:07:59 ◼   ► turn it off.

01:08:00 ◼   ► But what are you

01:08:01 ◼   ► turning it off to?

01:08:03 ◼   ► To turn off all

01:08:05 ◼   ► the transparency.

01:08:05 ◼   ► To what you

01:08:07 ◼   ► said, iOS 18,

01:08:09 ◼   ► but rounder.

01:08:09 ◼   ► There's no way

01:08:13 ◼   ► to fix, here's my

01:08:14 ◼   ► concern, there's

01:08:15 ◼   ► no way, I don't

01:08:16 ◼   ► think, I don't

01:08:17 ◼   ► think, I

01:08:18 ◼   ► personally don't

01:08:19 ◼   ► think there is a

01:08:20 ◼   ► way to fix this

01:08:22 ◼   ► design without

01:08:23 ◼   ► undoing this

01:08:24 ◼   ► design.

01:08:24 ◼   ► that's the

01:08:26 ◼   ► problem.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:08:28 ◼   ► I mean, I'm

01:08:29 ◼   ► not saying you're

01:08:29 ◼   ► right, I can see

01:08:31 ◼   ► what you're saying.

01:08:31 ◼   ► I just, so

01:08:33 ◼   ► either go all the

01:08:34 ◼   ► way in.

01:08:34 ◼   ► I can't imagine

01:08:35 ◼   ► them doing it.

01:08:35 ◼   ► I just cannot

01:08:36 ◼   ► imagine them

01:08:37 ◼   ► shipping a UI and

01:08:40 ◼   ► being like, hey, do