Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 525.

00:00:12 ◼   ► I'm Jon Voorhees, and with me is Mr. Ricky Benchman himself, none other than Michael Hurley.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hey Mike.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hi Jon, thank you for joining us OTJ.

00:00:23 ◼   ► I would like to say this episode is brought to you by Squarespace and Fanfare,

00:00:25 ◼   ► and it is my pleasure as Ricky Benchman to introduce Mr. Federico Vittucci. Hello Federico.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Hello, hi.

00:00:32 ◼   ► I feel like I'm inside of App Stories right now.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Or, I don't know, Jon is unconnected.

00:00:39 ◼   ► It could be either or, we'll see how the show goes.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Or, or, Mike, or you're joining an episode of Unwind, which is also a vibe.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Sure, but you've left out the show that I really want to be on.

00:00:51 ◼   ► Oh, you want to be on MPC?

00:00:53 ◼   ► My favorite podcast.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Well, there's going to be Brendan on it though.

00:00:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I know, Brendan's cooler than me. I get it, all right.

00:01:00 ◼   ► I get it, everybody knows it, we can all see it, all right.

00:01:03 ◼   ► I wouldn't say cooler, but he's definitely taller than you.

00:01:06 ◼   ► No, he's cooler.

00:01:07 ◼   ► No, he's cooler.

00:01:08 ◼   ► It's fine, we can all admit it, he's cooler than all of us.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Oh, he's certainly cooler than me, that's for sure.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Probably not me.

00:01:17 ◼   ► No, Federico, I love you, he's cooler than you.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Nah, nah.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Yeah, he is.

00:01:21 ◼   ► Federico, you've lost your cool edge.

00:01:23 ◼   ► No, no, Federico's still cool, right?

00:01:25 ◼   ► What? What?

00:01:27 ◼   ► Federico, you are cool.

00:01:29 ◼   ► You take that back immediately, John.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I take it back, I take it back.

00:01:32 ◼   ► You could bring this to the show, take this MPC.

00:01:36 ◼   ► I will not stand for this energy at the beginning of this episode.

00:01:39 ◼   ► You know what it is Federico, I'm just upset because I was promised Ricky's and I didn't

00:01:44 ◼   ► get them and I feel like there's been collusion.

00:01:46 ◼   ► There's been collusion, somebody has plotted against me.

00:01:48 ◼   ► That is really true.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Collusion with what exactly?

00:01:52 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Who colluded?

00:01:54 ◼   ► You think I colluded with Tim Cook?

00:01:55 ◼   ► You and Mike, you and Mike, maybe Steven too.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Maybe we asked John Turnas when we saw him a few months ago to do it this way.

00:02:02 ◼   ► We are personal acquaintances of future Apple CEO John Turnas.

00:02:07 ◼   ► He did say to you, I know you, he did say that.

00:02:11 ◼   ► He did say that.

00:02:12 ◼   ► He did say that to me, which is good for two reasons.

00:02:15 ◼   ► Because one, maybe he doesn't know me and the things that I say about him or he does

00:02:21 ◼   ► and decided he didn't want to bring that energy.

00:02:24 ◼   ► No, you keep that in mind.

00:02:26 ◼   ► You keep that in mind when you say that I'm not cool anymore.

00:02:28 ◼   ► The future CEO of Apple said, I know you.

00:02:32 ◼   ► He probably also said, you're the cool one, aren't you?

00:02:35 ◼   ► Well, I would just like to state for the record, if we're talking about coolness, I in this

00:02:39 ◼   ► year have met the current and potential future CEO of Apple.

00:02:43 ◼   ► So, I mean, that's pretty cool.

00:02:46 ◼   ► You got that going for you.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Yeah, that was pretty cool.

00:02:48 ◼   ► You met a 65 year old man.

00:02:51 ◼   ► He's a nice guy.

00:02:52 ◼   ► Tim Cook's a nice guy.

00:02:54 ◼   ► And he, oh, a bit of, we should do some follow up.

00:02:57 ◼   ► Follow up number one, which is Steven has renamed our group chat to roommates in honor

00:03:02 ◼   ► of Tim Cook.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Yes.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I had no idea what that was all about.

00:03:06 ◼   ► It was very funny to see like what is going on.

00:03:08 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on.

00:03:10 ◼   ► I was behind in my reading and I had no idea what that was all about.

00:03:15 ◼   ► Very confusing for OTJ for obvious reasons, but we have, we do have some other follow

00:03:21 ◼   ► up.

00:03:22 ◼   ► iOS 8.1, 18.8, iOS 8.1.

00:03:25 ◼   ► Now that would be fun.

00:03:27 ◼   ► iOS 18.1 is now available, which brings of it the first round of Apple intelligence features.

00:03:34 ◼   ► John, I know that you wrote about that and Millian wrote about it, Mac stories.

00:03:40 ◼   ► We've been talking about this for a while.

00:03:42 ◼   ► They're out now.

00:03:43 ◼   ► A funny thing, I was kind of talking to my wife about the Apple intelligence stuff.

00:03:49 ◼   ► Just kind of, you know, I'm sure we all do this.

00:03:51 ◼   ► We all talk to our partners cause we care about this stuff so much.

00:03:53 ◼   ► And she was like, oh yeah, I'm interested in seeing what this stuff is about.

00:03:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:03:58 ◼   ► Um, but I ended up urging her to just wait for 18.2 cause I just don't think it's worth

00:04:04 ◼   ► for her like changing her language settings because, and I actually recommend this to

00:04:08 ◼   ► most people.

00:04:09 ◼   ► Like if you're not in the US, I would, I think you would be fine to wait for 18.2.

00:04:17 ◼   ► Um, if your language is going to be added, cause I really feel like 18.2 is the better

00:04:25 ◼   ► overall package if you're interested in this stuff.

00:04:28 ◼   ► But I did do that.

00:04:30 ◼   ► I did do the language change thing and realistically it didn't really affect me at all, especially

00:04:35 ◼   ► when at one point in the beta process they made it that you didn't need to have your,

00:04:41 ◼   ► like your language, like your language for text, the keyboard, like your keyboard language,

00:04:47 ◼   ► sorry, as a US English.

00:04:49 ◼   ► So I could have my like language phone language as American English is very confusing.

00:04:55 ◼   ► My region could stay UK.

00:04:57 ◼   ► My phone language had to be US English, but my keyboard could be UK English.

00:05:03 ◼   ► It's like, I don't wish that on anyone having to work out how to set that up.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:08 ◼   ► I wish I were in the meeting where they decided how to split up all these features because

00:05:13 ◼   ► I can see why they did it the way they did.

00:05:16 ◼   ► On the other hand, and I think it's because 18.0 felt, felt pretty light and 18.1 if those

00:05:25 ◼   ► things had been in 18, it would have felt like a more like a normal update, I think.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:05:32 ◼   ► But, but they were still so far off of having the image stuff ready that I guess they decided

00:05:37 ◼   ► to drop some stuff in between.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I feel like as well, because I was just, as you were talking, I was thinking like, Oh,

00:05:43 ◼   ► what would have been the harm in just waiting and just doing it all in December, right?

00:05:47 ◼   ► Like if you're promoting it in September and it's not coming out in October, why not wait

00:05:51 ◼   ► for December?

00:05:52 ◼   ► You know?

00:05:53 ◼   ► But then I was thinking, I do still think that Genmoji is going to be popular, especially

00:06:00 ◼   ► with the way that Apple have implemented it in the keyboard.

00:06:03 ◼   ► So I think that there is something to be said about like staging it a little bit, like not

00:06:07 ◼   ► having that be in the first Apple intelligence release maybe.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Well they needed more time to test out the image stuff too.

00:06:14 ◼   ► I mean, it's, we'll talk about that, but.

00:06:16 ◼   ► I want to see if you two have some details on this, where Apple have said that the Apple

00:06:23 ◼   ► intelligence is coming to the EU in April.

00:06:25 ◼   ► Like this is in a, basically the footer terms and conditions, secret legal notes at the

00:06:31 ◼   ► bottom of a newsroom post.

00:06:32 ◼   ► Do you know what, like, this seems weird that they would announce it this way.

00:06:36 ◼   ► It also seems weird that there has not at least been a public acknowledgement from anyone

00:06:43 ◼   ► or the EU haven't said, like, it seems like this couldn't launch in the EU.

00:06:47 ◼   ► So how are they doing it?

00:06:48 ◼   ► I think that there are ongoing conversations between the EU and Apple.

00:06:52 ◼   ► So I think that that, my guess is that when they say April, they've struck a deal.

00:06:57 ◼   ► They just, no one's going to talk about it being a deal though.

00:07:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:01 ◼   ► I mean, but it is what it is, right?

00:07:03 ◼   ► They've said they were having conversations with regulators in Europe and they seem confident

00:07:09 ◼   ► that by April they will be able to release Apple intelligence in the EU.

00:07:13 ◼   ► I do think it's a little strange that you find out about this via a footnote or apparently

00:07:21 ◼   ► if you want to know everything about, like, if you want to have all of the EU asterisks

00:07:26 ◼   ► in Apple's press releases, you just got to sign up for the Irish newsroom.

00:07:31 ◼   ► So the Irish Apple newsroom is my new best friend because apparently if you're in Ireland,

00:07:36 ◼   ► you get all the fancy details about the European Union that you don't get on the other newsrooms.

00:07:41 ◼   ► So yeah, go Irish newsroom, I guess.

00:07:44 ◼   ► But yeah, they have most certainly, you know, struck a deal with the EU.

00:07:53 ◼   ► And so realistically, I think we're looking at iOS 18.3 or 18.4 coming out in April and

00:08:03 ◼   ► that's going to be it.

00:08:04 ◼   ► So yeah, the language is a little bit hedged too, I think if I remember right.

00:08:08 ◼   ► It's something to the effect that most of the features will be coming to the EU or something

00:08:12 ◼   ► along those lines.

00:08:14 ◼   ► Actually, it's just weird.

00:08:16 ◼   ► It's just weird because like at first it was like, oh, but the data rules to the DMA, like

00:08:21 ◼   ► it's not going to work, like because of the way it's written.

00:08:23 ◼   ► So like who's changed something, you know, or was that misunderstood from the beginning,

00:08:30 ◼   ► right?

00:08:31 ◼   ► Like it's just, it's a confusing thing to me at least.

00:08:34 ◼   ► Maybe people just got carried away.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:36 ◼   ► The way I look at it, it feels like to me that Apple has had ongoing continual conversations

00:08:42 ◼   ► with the regulators in Europe ever since the very beginning.

00:08:47 ◼   ► And the last thing you want to do is like haul that out into the public and make somebody

00:08:50 ◼   ► look bad when you're having sensitive negotiations.

00:08:53 ◼   ► So they've gotten, Apple has gotten comfortable enough with what they're hearing from the

00:08:57 ◼   ► EU to be able to at least say that this stuff is coming in the spring.

00:09:01 ◼   ► But my guess is like the details have not been totally worked out, which is why there's

00:09:06 ◼   ► still time to go and why it's hedged a little bit.

00:09:09 ◼   ► I will go one step further and I will say that the deal that they have cut with the

00:09:18 ◼   ► EU is that by the time Apple intelligence launches in Europe, it's going to support

00:09:25 ◼   ► multiple AI sources in addition to chat GPT.

00:09:28 ◼   ► All right.

00:09:29 ◼   ► So here's one I'm going to read to you from the, uh, from the, the, the actual footnote

00:09:34 ◼   ► that was in the Irish newsletter this April, Apple intelligence features will start to

00:09:38 ◼   ► roll out to iPhone and iPad users in the EU.

00:09:41 ◼   ► This will include many of the core features of Apple intelligence, including writing tools,

00:09:45 ◼   ► gem Moji, a redesigned Siri with richer language, understanding, chat, GPT integration, and

00:09:50 ◼   ► more.

00:09:51 ◼   ► My bet on this is that they will not have support for personal context because that

00:09:57 ◼   ► was the issue, right?

00:09:58 ◼   ► It was like using somebody's data and that's what context does.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:10:05 ◼   ► But here are a couple of potential things, right?

00:10:07 ◼   ► Because like that's when Gemini's coming on board or they, they're basically cutting it

00:10:12 ◼   ► off there because these are just like, these features are just, they're like degenerative

00:10:17 ◼   ► AI stuff that already exists.

00:10:18 ◼   ► But the idea of to using somebody's data for an AI system, like I think if memory serves,

00:10:24 ◼   ► that was what people were suggesting was the reason that they might struggle.

00:10:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Uh, if I remember right too, when the press release talked about the visual thing where

00:10:34 ◼   ► you press the, you know, the camera control and you can point it at something that there

00:10:38 ◼   ► was some language in there about later there will be third party tools available.

00:10:43 ◼   ► And that to me, I think that that means other AI tools, not like third party developers.

00:10:48 ◼   ► I think it means other services that are available, AI type services.

00:10:52 ◼   ► So yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if we see more.

00:10:54 ◼   ► I mean, that would make sense because that visual intelligence thing, I don't understand

00:10:59 ◼   ► what I'm supposed to do with it.

00:11:00 ◼   ► Like it's really weird.

00:11:04 ◼   ► It told me I had a cozy coffee mug on my desk.

00:11:06 ◼   ► It sure did.

00:11:07 ◼   ► It's an odd feature that where it's like, that feels like something that we know how

00:11:11 ◼   ► that should act because we've seen products attempt to do this or like products say they

00:11:16 ◼   ► can do this, but like at least visual intelligence right now, I don't, I don't really understand

00:11:22 ◼   ► what it's doing.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Anyway, let's move on from this.

00:11:24 ◼   ► We're going to come back to it.

00:11:25 ◼   ► We're going to, we're going to have an AI sandwich for today's episode.

00:11:28 ◼   ► My favorite, everyone's favorite tasty delectable treat.

00:11:32 ◼   ► I actually want to talk about something which is just genuinely heartwarming and was a really

00:11:35 ◼   ► interesting story, which was John, can you talk about your experience with the AirPods

00:11:40 ◼   ► Pro 2 hearing features?

00:11:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:11:42 ◼   ► So I figured, you know, this is a new feature that I've read about a lot and having read

00:11:46 ◼   ► about it even, you know, there's a great story on the verge by Chris Walsh about it and Chris

00:11:52 ◼   ► talked about how he was a little hesitant, how it was kind of stressful taking it.

00:11:56 ◼   ► And so I was just very curious about what the process was like because going into it,

00:12:01 ◼   ► I didn't really know what to expect.

00:12:02 ◼   ► And I know just because of my age and my past, I have some hearing loss and my wife certainly

00:12:08 ◼   ► reminds me of it frequently.

00:12:11 ◼   ► And so I thought, well, can we talk about that for a second?

00:12:17 ◼   ► Sure, sure.

00:12:18 ◼   ► Poor Jennifer.

00:12:19 ◼   ► Like how?

00:12:20 ◼   ► Like how?

00:12:21 ◼   ► Like that, that, that I, well, that I don't listen to her.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:12:25 ◼   ► I tune her out or I can't hear her.

00:12:26 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Or the TV's too loud.

00:12:28 ◼   ► Are you sure you're not using this, um, physical limitation as an excuse?

00:12:34 ◼   ► Well, I guess I was glad to find out that I had a little hearing loss because otherwise

00:12:39 ◼   ► I certified John as your legal counsel.

00:12:42 ◼   ► I recommend you plead the fifth on this one.

00:12:46 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:12:47 ◼   ► Um, but yeah, you know, everything's for the content, right?

00:12:51 ◼   ► So I decided it's time to take this hearing test.

00:12:54 ◼   ► Wow.

00:12:55 ◼   ► Some dedication.

00:12:59 ◼   ► This is like me and Federico doing eye tests in our living rooms, right?

00:13:02 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:13:03 ◼   ► It's not too.

00:13:04 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:13:05 ◼   ► Look, I mean, I'm not trying to be cynical, but, uh, I thought it would make for a good

00:13:10 ◼   ► story depending on how it turned out.

00:13:12 ◼   ► Were you at any point to be like, boy, I really hope I do have some hearing loss.

00:13:18 ◼   ► So Federico, my concern was that it would tell me that my hearing loss was too high.

00:13:25 ◼   ► It was so bad that I needed to go see a doctor.

00:13:27 ◼   ► That's what I didn't want to have to.

00:13:30 ◼   ► And fortunately it did not.

00:13:32 ◼   ► I did find out that I have mild hearing loss in one of my two ears.

00:13:38 ◼   ► So not, not really a particularly big deal, but what was neat was, well, there are a couple

00:13:42 ◼   ► of things about this.

00:13:43 ◼   ► First of all, the process of doing the hearing test is super, super well done.

00:13:50 ◼   ► You can tell that a lot of thought went into it.

00:13:52 ◼   ► The design is really good.

00:13:54 ◼   ► It kind of puts your, if you're, if you're anxious about it all, it kind of puts your,

00:13:58 ◼   ► you know, your nerves at ease.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Cause I felt like by the time I was actually taking the test that I was ready for it in

00:14:04 ◼   ► a way.

00:14:05 ◼   ► And it was, you know, just a lot of intro screens.

00:14:07 ◼   ► I was able to like listen to a tone before I actually took the test.

00:14:11 ◼   ► So I knew what I was listening for, which was kind of nice.

00:14:14 ◼   ► And then I went through it and it, it steps you through first checking your surroundings

00:14:18 ◼   ► to make sure that your room that you're in is quiet enough.

00:14:22 ◼   ► And mine was, and then it checks whether your AirPods are in your ears with a good seal

00:14:28 ◼   ► because it needs that.

00:14:29 ◼   ► And then you start taking the test one ear at a time.

00:14:32 ◼   ► And the first time I did it, it failed because I was sitting at my kitchen table and a truck

00:14:36 ◼   ► went by and it was enough noise, even though it wasn't super loud that I had to redo it.

00:14:42 ◼   ► So I retreated to my bedroom, which is a little further away from the street and quieter.

00:14:48 ◼   ► And I was able to get through the test and it showed me that I had the hearing loss.

00:14:52 ◼   ► And then once you do that and you set up the hearing assistance, the hearing aid part of

00:14:57 ◼   ► it, all it really is is tapping a button because it's, you know, boosting some of the signals

00:15:01 ◼   ► in whatever range of frequencies you're having difficulty with.

00:15:06 ◼   ► And I thought, well, here I am, I'm working at home by myself.

00:15:09 ◼   ► I'm not going to really be able to test this until Jennifer gets home and I have somebody

00:15:12 ◼   ► to talk to.

00:15:14 ◼   ► And I stood up and walked across the floor and I was like, wow.

00:15:17 ◼   ► I was immediately floored by the fact that I could hear my footsteps across the floor

00:15:23 ◼   ► much more clearly than I did before I took the test.

00:15:26 ◼   ► And then I was making lunch and I could hear, you know, the rustle of the packaging as I

00:15:30 ◼   ► pulled food out of the refrigerator.

00:15:32 ◼   ► And then I went to my office and started typing and I could hear the keys like I hadn't heard

00:15:37 ◼   ► before.

00:15:38 ◼   ► It was all really kind of, it was really surprising.

00:15:41 ◼   ► And it just does, I mean, it does what you would expect it does.

00:15:44 ◼   ► It pulls out those frequencies you have trouble with, makes everything more defined.

00:15:51 ◼   ► I kind of finished up my story by talking about how I walked down.

00:15:54 ◼   ► I kind of wrote up the story right away because I wanted to have it fresh in my mind what

00:15:57 ◼   ► it was like.

00:15:59 ◼   ► And then I walked down to a local coffee shop to finish up the draft and I left my AirPods

00:16:05 ◼   ► in while I was ordering a drink and while I was sitting outside and it was noticeable

00:16:09 ◼   ► being able to talk to the person who took my order, hearing people at the tables nearby

00:16:15 ◼   ► despite there being like a park right next door and a lot of kids running around and

00:16:18 ◼   ► making noise.

00:16:19 ◼   ► It was amazing to me.

00:16:22 ◼   ► I mean, it really is kind of cool.

00:16:24 ◼   ► The novelty of it has worn off pretty quickly.

00:16:27 ◼   ► Like I notice it less today than I did yesterday, two days ago.

00:16:31 ◼   ► That's like when you get a new pair of glasses though, right?

00:16:33 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:16:34 ◼   ► It's very much like that.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:36 ◼   ► I mean, I encourage anybody who thinks they might even potentially have some hearing loss

00:16:41 ◼   ► to give it a try because it only takes like five minutes and it can really improve your

00:16:46 ◼   ► hearing.

00:16:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I think it's just because I love you and care for you, but I felt quite emotional

00:16:54 ◼   ► reading that article.

00:16:55 ◼   ► I also just think you did a good job with it.

00:16:58 ◼   ► You can tell in the way that you're writing it, which it was just kind of, I get the impression

00:17:03 ◼   ► of how much you were taken aback by the difference.

00:17:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:17:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:09 ◼   ► And that's why I wanted to write it right away because it was like, I stood up and I

00:17:13 ◼   ► just took a couple of steps and I was like, whoa, what's going on?

00:17:18 ◼   ► I can hear the future.

00:17:22 ◼   ► I can hear my socks on the wood floor like never before.

00:17:25 ◼   ► You were like, is this what I sound like when I walk?

00:17:28 ◼   ► It's like the glory of my socks against wood was fantastic.

00:17:32 ◼   ► It's almost like a scene from a superhero movie, right?

00:17:36 ◼   ► Where like now you've woken up after being bit by the radioactive spider and now you've

00:17:41 ◼   ► got like extra cool senses, I suppose.

00:17:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it is a little bit like that.

00:17:46 ◼   ► And I like going forward, my hearing loss isn't so bad that I'm going to be walking

00:17:50 ◼   ► around with AirPods in my ears all day.

00:17:53 ◼   ► But I do feel like today I walked into town again for another reason, just to run an errand

00:18:00 ◼   ► and I was wearing my AirPods and listening to a podcast and it's like little things like

00:18:04 ◼   ► the podcast volume level is lower than it was before, which is probably good for my

00:18:08 ◼   ► hearing longterm too.

00:18:10 ◼   ► And the fact that as I was walking down the street, a lot of these things are already

00:18:16 ◼   ► kind of built into AirPods with the transparency mode where it's lowering the traffic noises

00:18:22 ◼   ► and kind of pulling out other noises a little bit more.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And what I noticed was it's those sounds that you want to hear, like people talking that

00:18:31 ◼   ► are better defined and pulled out against the backdrop of what's going on on the street

00:18:36 ◼   ► around you.

00:18:37 ◼   ► And that, you know, I'll definitely wear them for things like that, I suppose, which I tend

00:18:42 ◼   ► to be anyway.

00:18:43 ◼   ► Like if I'm walking around doing errands, I'm going to have my AirPods in anyway, probably.

00:18:47 ◼   ► Or if you're like in a loud restaurant maybe or at a concert or something like that, I

00:18:53 ◼   ► could definitely see doing it.

00:18:54 ◼   ► I would just say for the record, because I feel like I hear a lot of people say, right?

00:18:59 ◼   ► Like, and you even kind of hinted towards it of like it being weird that you would go

00:19:02 ◼   ► into a coffee shop and speak to somebody of AirPods in.

00:19:06 ◼   ► I don't think this is weird at all.

00:19:08 ◼   ► I don't know why people think this is weird.

00:19:10 ◼   ► Like if I have my AirPods in and I'm talking to you, you can probably assume I can hear

00:19:15 ◼   ► like I'm not listening to something.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Like, I don't, I think we need to get over this idea that like I have to take one earbud

00:19:24 ◼   ► out to be able to speak to you.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Like, it should be contextual, right?

00:19:30 ◼   ► You know I'm talking to you because I'm talking to you.

00:19:32 ◼   ► If I say, oh, wait, sorry, what?

00:19:34 ◼   ► I can't hear you.

00:19:35 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:19:36 ◼   ► Then I'm listening to something.

00:19:38 ◼   ► I'm not sure that I fully understand that why this is like a social, like a bad social

00:19:45 ◼   ► cue.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Like it doesn't make sense to me.

00:19:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:19:48 ◼   ► But I think it happens to be for some people.

00:19:50 ◼   ► And I think it'll take a while to kind of become normalized really.

00:19:54 ◼   ► But then I must be upsetting people all the time.

00:19:57 ◼   ► It was, it had become a habit for me where I would like when I would walk down to the

00:20:02 ◼   ► shop to get a coffee, I just naturally would pull my AirPods out as I approached the door

00:20:06 ◼   ► and drop them in the case and order my coffee, then put them back in as I go find a seat,

00:20:12 ◼   ► you know, even when I'm by myself.

00:20:14 ◼   ► But I didn't.

00:20:16 ◼   ► And it actually was better because it's pretty loud place and the woman behind the counter

00:20:21 ◼   ► was was pretty quiet spoken.

00:20:23 ◼   ► So it did help.

00:20:25 ◼   ► Very cool.

00:20:26 ◼   ► Do you think you're going to do you think this is actually going to change your AirPods

00:20:31 ◼   ► usage?

00:20:32 ◼   ► Like, do you imagine now that you would like, so you mentioned a restaurant, let's say you

00:20:37 ◼   ► and Jennifer are going to dinner and you're in a loud restaurant, would you be more likely

00:20:41 ◼   ► to put your AirPods in so you could hear about her?

00:20:44 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:20:45 ◼   ► I'm not sure.

00:20:46 ◼   ► I'm not really sure because I haven't been in that situation yet.

00:20:49 ◼   ► But I will say that like last night, she came home from work, and I was making dinner and

00:20:53 ◼   ► I was making noise in the kitchen.

00:20:54 ◼   ► And she was like on the couch facing away from me.

00:20:57 ◼   ► And she was talking to me.

00:20:58 ◼   ► And I happen to have my AirPods in because I was listening to a podcast when she got

00:21:02 ◼   ► home.

00:21:03 ◼   ► I paused it when she got home.

00:21:05 ◼   ► And as she was speaking to me from the couch, I could hear her better.

00:21:07 ◼   ► So I definitely, you know, would leave them in in a situation like that more likely than

00:21:13 ◼   ► not.

00:21:14 ◼   ► And in the future going to, you know, into town to run errands and things, leave them

00:21:19 ◼   ► in when I go to the pharmacy to pick something up or, you know, talk to somebody at a restaurant

00:21:25 ◼   ► or a shop or whatever it happens to be.

00:21:27 ◼   ► I can definitely see it in those circumstances.

00:21:29 ◼   ► I haven't really thought.

00:21:30 ◼   ► We'll have to see.

00:21:31 ◼   ► I mean, jury's still out whether I would do it if we were out to dinner together or something.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Federico, do you think it's rude?

00:21:38 ◼   ► I don't think it is.

00:21:39 ◼   ► Okay.

00:21:40 ◼   ► It's pretty normal by now.

00:21:42 ◼   ► I mean, it's been what, eight years since AirPods?

00:21:45 ◼   ► And yeah, I just, I don't care about it anymore.

00:21:48 ◼   ► And I, I don't know, anecdotally speaking, I think people have gotten used to the idea

00:21:53 ◼   ► of the other person can hear you even if you're wearing AirPods.

00:21:58 ◼   ► So yeah, I think we are past this.

00:22:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:02 ◼   ► I look forward to the follow up.

00:22:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I'll definitely let you know.

00:22:08 ◼   ► I think it's a generational thing.

00:22:10 ◼   ► I think this is a generational thing to think about AirPods to a degree, but you know, we'll

00:22:16 ◼   ► see.

00:22:17 ◼   ► We'll see how, how people react.

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00:24:57 ◼   ► So it has been new Mac week.

00:25:00 ◼   ► We were wondering how this was going to go down and basically it went down thusly.

00:25:05 ◼   ► There have been press releases and videos, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday of this week showing

00:25:11 ◼   ► off a variety of different Macs.

00:25:14 ◼   ► All these videos were kind of emceed by John Turnus.

00:25:17 ◼   ► John Turnus really playing the Tim Cook role in these presentations, right?

00:25:21 ◼   ► He sets up the thing, sends it away to people, comes back to him, goes to someone else, comes

00:25:26 ◼   ► back to him to wrap up.

00:25:28 ◼   ► Turnus is fantastic.

00:25:30 ◼   ► I know I love him.

00:25:32 ◼   ► But part of that...

00:25:33 ◼   ► Oh really?

00:25:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:35 ◼   ► But genuinely though, like I have a lot of respect for Tim Cook.

00:25:39 ◼   ► John Turnus is better at this kind of stuff.

00:25:42 ◼   ► I think he's more, I think he has more of the personality.

00:25:48 ◼   ► He's got more energy.

00:25:49 ◼   ► He's closer to Federighi, right?

00:25:51 ◼   ► He's not that good, but like he's closer to Federighi.

00:25:55 ◼   ► Like he's funny.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Like, and he can do funny things, right?

00:25:58 ◼   ► Like the Mac mini when he leans down, right?

00:26:00 ◼   ► It's very memorable.

00:26:01 ◼   ► Like when he opens the Mac and it does like the his master's voice thing, right?

00:26:05 ◼   ► He can do funny faces.

00:26:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:09 ◼   ► And it's like he, I think he's good at that.

00:26:10 ◼   ► Um, but overall, like just kind of top level, this is an interesting but like weird way

00:26:16 ◼   ► to do this where they basically had a keynote and they just cut it into three pieces.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:22 ◼   ► Like I don't, I don't know why they didn't just do this, but maybe they wanted to try

00:26:26 ◼   ► this out and I would say it's been pretty successful, right?

00:26:30 ◼   ► Like they got to show off Apple intelligence three separate times, right?

00:26:36 ◼   ► Like I think that is definitely part of the reason.

00:26:40 ◼   ► And they showed some cool features, stuff we can't use, right?

00:26:43 ◼   ► Like that I would like to have.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Like there's that one demo where she's like, um, is Allegra Tepper who is going to be,

00:26:52 ◼   ► I think we're going to see her a lot.

00:26:53 ◼   ► I mean, they used her three times this week, right?

00:26:55 ◼   ► Like and Tim Millet as well, who I love that they always reference is Tim Millet.

00:27:00 ◼   ► Like everybody else gets a first name, but you can't say in his Tim.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Right.

00:27:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:27:06 ◼   ► Oh, that's true.

00:27:07 ◼   ► So they always go in and here's Tim Millet who's friend of upgrade.

00:27:09 ◼   ► We've had Tim on the show a bunch of times.

00:27:12 ◼   ► He's a great guy, but like that, that is a very funny, like I noticed that like everybody

00:27:16 ◼   ► else is like, here's Allegra, you know, it's like, oh, back to John.

00:27:20 ◼   ► It's like, and here's Tim Millet.

00:27:23 ◼   ► But like they, it's interesting to see these, like they're, they're building new figures

00:27:27 ◼   ► kind of thing, right?

00:27:28 ◼   ► Like these are the people responsible for this thing and like Allegra was in all of

00:27:33 ◼   ► them and she did a great job.

00:27:34 ◼   ► So I think we're going to see her more and more, but like, I think that's part of why

00:27:37 ◼   ► they did this maybe was like, we can show off these features.

00:27:41 ◼   ► But yeah, the, the, the drivers, the passport thing on the, like the website, like where

00:27:46 ◼   ► they're filling in the travel information, being able to just say like, can you put my

00:27:51 ◼   ► passport number in here?

00:27:52 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:27:53 ◼   ► I would love to use that.

00:27:54 ◼   ► I have no idea when I'm going to be able to get to do that.

00:27:57 ◼   ► Like I was thinking about that.

00:28:00 ◼   ► The idea of Siri filling information in a web form.

00:28:07 ◼   ► I don't think that was shown off at WWDC.

00:28:11 ◼   ► Because if that's like, there has to be a new shortcuts intent, like, right.

00:28:16 ◼   ► I mean, it's not something that, well, could it be combined with onscreen awareness?

00:28:22 ◼   ► Like could maybe onscreen awareness take action on the screen stuff?

00:28:25 ◼   ► It's either like a new Siri combined with Safari thing, or it's a new type of shortcuts

00:28:31 ◼   ► integration where a shortcut action can modify the contents of a webpage.

00:28:38 ◼   ► But maybe it's just like a Safari exclusive thing.

00:28:41 ◼   ► But here's the question.

00:28:44 ◼   ► Where did that come from?

00:28:45 ◼   ► Like, I'm not trying to nitpick this, but it's interesting.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Like where in Mac OS, iOS would I save my passport information?

00:28:54 ◼   ► Like where was that?

00:28:56 ◼   ► You can't, because the passwords app doesn't support things like driver's license numbers.

00:29:01 ◼   ► Sure.

00:29:02 ◼   ► No, but it could also be something that, the idea is that it could be something that you

00:29:06 ◼   ► have in Notes or that you have in Photos.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Or one password.

00:29:09 ◼   ► And Apple Intelligence, yeah.

00:29:10 ◼   ► Right.

00:29:11 ◼   ► And in theory, Apple Intelligence with its semantic index knows, oh, this item is a passport.

00:29:17 ◼   ► And it's the person's passport because it matches their face.

00:29:20 ◼   ► You know, all these signals.

00:29:21 ◼   ► Possibly, right?

00:29:22 ◼   ► But it's interesting.

00:29:23 ◼   ► Which is interesting.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Like, but where?

00:29:26 ◼   ► Like this is, this is the, this has been the question the whole time, right?

00:29:30 ◼   ► Like this is interesting, but how?

00:29:32 ◼   ► Right.

00:29:33 ◼   ► And I like to see more practical use cases because that is one which would be great,

00:29:40 ◼   ► right?

00:29:41 ◼   ► For me.

00:29:42 ◼   ► Like, I like put my address in here.

00:29:44 ◼   ► You know, like that's better than autofill, right?

00:29:47 ◼   ► Like I'll just fill out this form for me.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Like, and it's just, it's just my name, my address, my billing address, my shipping address,

00:29:52 ◼   ► my credit card, my phone number, right?

00:29:54 ◼   ► Like, it should be able to do all of that, right?

00:29:57 ◼   ► And that would be great if you could just say like, fill this out.

00:30:02 ◼   ► Mentioning about we haven't seen this before, what I find interesting is, did you see what

00:30:07 ◼   ► Anthropica are doing?

00:30:08 ◼   ► Like they showed off a demo of like filling in a form.

00:30:11 ◼   ► And it's like, maybe it's like, oh, okay.

00:30:13 ◼   ► We think like, we know we can do stuff like that.

00:30:16 ◼   ► Maybe we should show it now.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:30:19 ◼   ► Anyway, let's talk about the products.

00:30:21 ◼   ► I want to rank these by the ones that I find the most interesting.

00:30:23 ◼   ► So we'll start with the Mac Mini.

00:30:26 ◼   ► This is the thing though, right?

00:30:27 ◼   ► Like the other stuff is like much, much of what we expected, you know, like as easy to

00:30:33 ◼   ► kind of expect, but the Mac Mini is like, are they actually going to do this?

00:30:37 ◼   ► They did it.

00:30:38 ◼   ► It's a five by five inch cube, like square, sorry.

00:30:41 ◼   ► That's kind of like the dimensions of it looking down.

00:30:44 ◼   ► Still has a bunch of IO, ethernet, HDMI, three thunderbolts on the back, two USB-C on the

00:30:49 ◼   ► front, headphone jack, power button on the bottom.

00:30:52 ◼   ► We'll come back to that.

00:30:53 ◼   ► I'm just going to run through some specs, right?

00:30:54 ◼   ► First carbon neutral Mac, 85% less aluminum is part of the ways they did this.

00:30:59 ◼   ► Features M4, M4 Pro, essentially faster and more in all cases.

00:31:04 ◼   ► And the M4 Pro has the quote world's fastest CPU core.

00:31:09 ◼   ► The M4 Pro is 75% faster memory bandwidth than I guess M3 or M2 Pro or whatever.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Good for AI.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Better ray tracing, faster neural engine.

00:31:19 ◼   ► M4 Pro has Thunderbolt 5.

00:31:22 ◼   ► The M4 has Thunderbolt 4.

00:31:24 ◼   ► 16 gigabytes of memory is standard.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Still starting at $599.

00:31:30 ◼   ► I'm going to say, does anybody have anything they want to talk about?

00:31:32 ◼   ► But I will just say, Federico, do you want to talk about Thunderbolt 5?

00:31:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:31:36 ◼   ► It's really exciting.

00:31:37 ◼   ► There are no, basically no accessories at this point.

00:31:41 ◼   ► I believe like a couple of companies announced literally a couple of cables and a couple

00:31:48 ◼   ► of external SSDs.

00:31:49 ◼   ► I'm sure now that Apple is doing this, I'm sure that CES will be an exciting time for

00:31:58 ◼   ► Thunderbolt peripherals, like Thunderbolt 5 peripherals.

00:32:01 ◼   ► I think we will see a, how would you say, a deluge of Thunderbolt 5 accessories.

00:32:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:11 ◼   ► I've tracked this stuff more than me.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Is it weird for a computer company to support this before there's the accessories?

00:32:17 ◼   ► Like I kind of feel like usually it's like, hey, we're making this thing.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Not really, because it's a bit of a situation, like it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem,

00:32:25 ◼   ► because if you don't have the computers with support for the standard, why would you even

00:32:30 ◼   ► make the accessories?

00:32:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:32 ◼   ► So it has to come, like a couple of things needed to happen.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Apple needed to add support for Thunderbolt 5 to their computers and on the Windows side,

00:32:43 ◼   ► Intel needs to, Intel or, you know, Qualcomm, whoever is in charge now, AMD, like they need

00:32:48 ◼   ► to introduce their desktop and laptop controllers for Thunderbolt 5 in their CPUs.

00:32:57 ◼   ► So that's most likely going to be the next step in Windows land.

00:33:00 ◼   ► In Windows land, that's also going to open the door for things like Thunderbolt 5 eGPUs,

00:33:06 ◼   ► for example.

00:33:07 ◼   ► And that will be a really interesting comparison between USB 4 version 2 and Thunderbolt 5.

00:33:11 ◼   ► But yeah, everybody was basically waiting for Apple to come up with their own, with

00:33:15 ◼   ► their computers and with their Thunderbolt 5 passive cable, which is also something that

00:33:21 ◼   ► we have now.

00:33:22 ◼   ► We don't have an active cable, meaning we are limited right now to a one meter Thunderbolt

00:33:28 ◼   ► 5 cable.

00:33:29 ◼   ► I am looking forward to the Thunderbolt 5 three meter active cable that's most likely

00:33:36 ◼   ► going to show up at some point within the next year.

00:33:39 ◼   ► What does that mean?

00:33:40 ◼   ► Why stop at three meters Federico?

00:33:43 ◼   ► You should keep going.

00:33:44 ◼   ► Go, you know, like...

00:33:45 ◼   ► Don't limit yourself.

00:33:46 ◼   ► Well, Thunderbolt is really hard to do at long distances.

00:33:51 ◼   ► It's like any love relationship.

00:33:54 ◼   ► It's really hard to do long distance with Thunderbolt.

00:33:57 ◼   ► It is.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:59 ◼   ► It means, Mike, that basically...

00:34:02 ◼   ► I'm going to try my...

00:34:04 ◼   ► Like, I don't know the proper words personally to describe this, but basically an active

00:34:08 ◼   ► cable is actively sending an electric signal throughout the entire cable to make sure that

00:34:15 ◼   ► there's no data loss in the three meters of the cable.

00:34:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:20 ◼   ► I think that there's an amplifier in it essentially to sustain over longer distances.

00:34:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Whereas this passive cable, it's just one meter, so it's short.

00:34:28 ◼   ► There's no data loss.

00:34:29 ◼   ► There's no data degradation as it moves through the cable because it's short.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:34:34 ◼   ► John, what are your feelings about the Mac Mini?

00:34:37 ◼   ► Oh, I love the Mac Mini.

00:34:38 ◼   ► I mean, if this computer had been out at the time I bought my Mac Studio, I would have

00:34:45 ◼   ► bought a high-end Mac Mini instead because that's effectively what my M1 Mac Studio is

00:34:51 ◼   ► because I've got a four terabyte SSD in it and 64 gigs of memory.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And that is essentially the high end of the Mini.

00:35:02 ◼   ► The Mini actually can go up to eight terabytes of storage, but it caps out at 64 gigabytes

00:35:06 ◼   ► of memory.

00:35:08 ◼   ► And that's plenty fine for me.

00:35:09 ◼   ► I mean, that's great for even the most taxing things I do, which tend to be like audio editing

00:35:15 ◼   ► and a little video editing here and there.

00:35:16 ◼   ► So I'd be really happy with this little thing.

00:35:19 ◼   ► I think what we're seeing is something that I'm sure is near and dear to Federico's heart,

00:35:24 ◼   ► which is we're seeing really the most modular of Macs ever.

00:35:27 ◼   ► I mean, you could easily take this thing, put it in a little case and carry it on out

00:35:32 ◼   ► to your coffee shop with a portable display and a keyboard and trackpad.

00:35:38 ◼   ► It's really going to fit into, I think, a lot more contexts than even the small Mini

00:35:43 ◼   ► did before.

00:35:44 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I mean, if I were a Mac user, I would be totally over this.

00:35:51 ◼   ► This is the computer I would buy.

00:35:52 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:35:53 ◼   ► >> Super modular.

00:35:54 ◼   ► >> This will be my next one for sure.

00:35:55 ◼   ► >> Yeah, super modular Mac Mini that is so basically a tall Apple TV.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I mean, it's lovely.

00:36:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:03 ◼   ► >> You mentioned the Mac Studio though, right?

00:36:05 ◼   ► And I think the thing about this machine, it starts at $599.

00:36:11 ◼   ► You add anything to that.

00:36:13 ◼   ► >> Oh, yeah.

00:36:14 ◼   ► >> Base configuration and you're getting up towards Mac Studio.

00:36:19 ◼   ► The configuration that I want, now all I'm doing is increasing the RAM and the storage.

00:36:26 ◼   ► It's 2,399 pounds.

00:36:27 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I price a lot of it.

00:36:28 ◼   ► >> How on earth, right?

00:36:29 ◼   ► It's M4 Pro, right?

00:36:30 ◼   ► So I've got M4 Pro, right?

00:36:31 ◼   ► So I've gone up from the base.

00:36:32 ◼   ► So I want an M4 Pro.

00:36:33 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:36:34 ◼   ► >> I want a little bit more RAM.

00:36:35 ◼   ► I want a little bit more storage than what that starting base is and we're up to 2,400.

00:36:43 ◼   ► Like it's a big old jump.

00:36:50 ◼   ► But this computer is like, I mean, I've been waiting on this for a while.

00:36:54 ◼   ► I'm using an M1 Max because I didn't know what I was buying.

00:37:00 ◼   ► I have an M1 Max MacBook Pro that I use for recording, editing, all my production work.

00:37:07 ◼   ► It stays here at the studio and in my daily computer is a MacBook Air, right?

00:37:10 ◼   ► And that comes backwards and forwards from me, like that's my main machine.

00:37:14 ◼   ► And I've been wanting to get a Max Studio for a while and was deciding I would wait

00:37:18 ◼   ► until they upgraded the Max Studio.

00:37:20 ◼   ► And now it's like, this will be my next computer.

00:37:22 ◼   ► I'm just not sure when I'm going to buy it.

00:37:23 ◼   ► And I think I was just a little bit surprised at that price jump, right?

00:37:31 ◼   ► Like I thought this was going to be maximum 1,999 to get what I wanted.

00:37:38 ◼   ► You know, it is much more money than I would have expected considering where it starts

00:37:44 ◼   ► and considering basically that really then it's a couple of hundred pounds more to get

00:37:51 ◼   ► a Max Studio with basically the same specs.

00:37:54 ◼   ► And I know that when I get the new Max Studio, I know it will obviously be more expensive,

00:37:59 ◼   ► but like it still is just a surprise to me anyway.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:02 ◼   ► I mean, you could definitely get into the, you know, over $4,000 for a Mac Mini now,

00:38:05 ◼   ► which is really, really something.

00:38:07 ◼   ► I mean, that's wild.

00:38:08 ◼   ► But at the same token, by the same token, you can spec this out to be comparable to

00:38:14 ◼   ► a Max Studio, at least a certain range of the Max Studio that's out there today.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Now of course, Apple's going to rev the Max Studio and it's going to leap forward, I suppose.

00:38:24 ◼   ► I do wonder though a little bit like how does the top end of the Mac Mini relate to the

00:38:30 ◼   ► Max Studio, which then relates to the Mac Pro?

00:38:33 ◼   ► And is there, you know, is there going to be overlap?

00:38:37 ◼   ► Is there really room for all three of those things, you know, from the very high end Mini?

00:38:43 ◼   ► You've got to get rid of the Mac Pro, right?

00:38:47 ◼   ► You would think that that's where this is going because I would think that now that

00:38:50 ◼   ► the Mac Mini is encroaching on the bottom end of the Max Studio, you'd push the Studio

00:38:55 ◼   ► up to where the Pro is now essentially.

00:38:58 ◼   ► Well, I mean, they are.

00:38:59 ◼   ► Like power wise, they're at the same level, right?

00:39:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:39:04 ◼   ► Now, but then you lose expansion though.

00:39:06 ◼   ► That's the thing.

00:39:07 ◼   ► You lose expansion if you get rid of the Pro.

00:39:09 ◼   ► That's the biggest thing.

00:39:10 ◼   ► Can anyone tell me what you can actually expand in a Mac Pro now?

00:39:14 ◼   ► Whether you just put SSDs inside?

00:39:16 ◼   ► Like they don't have slots anymore.

00:39:18 ◼   ► They have to be a Pro, Mike.

00:39:20 ◼   ► We're not pros.

00:39:21 ◼   ► We're not pro enough.

00:39:22 ◼   ► We need Steven, you know.

00:39:24 ◼   ► But like I just, I feel like, I mean, I've been banging this John for a while that the

00:39:27 ◼   ► Mac Pro is kind of just like, to me it just was kind of pointless now because they don't

00:39:31 ◼   ► have the support for external GPU's and stuff like that.

00:39:34 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is more, the way I look at it.

00:39:36 ◼   ► The Mac Pro is a very expensive statement for people who really want one.

00:39:41 ◼   ► Because like, I mean, yeah, for a lot of us in this industry, I'm not talking about 3D

00:39:47 ◼   ► artists.

00:39:48 ◼   ► I'm not talking about like academics doing DNA research or like for a lot of people listening

00:39:54 ◼   ► to this show, it's more of a like, you know, it's the equivalent of, I don't know.

00:40:00 ◼   ► Actually I'm going to say it because I'm part of the problem in another industry.

00:40:03 ◼   ► It's like the equivalent of getting really fancy headphones.

00:40:06 ◼   ► Because like, oh, I can tell the difference.

00:40:09 ◼   ► It's for the computer file.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Who wants those crunchy heads?

00:40:15 ◼   ► It's for the computer file.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Looking for the base.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Really the open expansion inside of the Mac Pro provides good resonance for the CPU wine.

00:40:26 ◼   ► So I'd really like to have that.

00:40:28 ◼   ► I mean, at this point, like most of those pro use, like the top, top end pro use cases,

00:40:34 ◼   ► the Mac studio can handle them.

00:40:36 ◼   ► Like, and it is an edge, edge, edge case now, I'm sure for the Mac Pro.

00:40:41 ◼   ► And I just, I wonder if the people in that bucket, if they're still best served by the

00:40:45 ◼   ► Mac.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Like I just don't, I'm not really sure that I can kind of get my head around it anymore.

00:40:50 ◼   ► I think the Intel Mac Pro made so much more sense because it had the ability to use cards.

00:40:59 ◼   ► You could, yeah, actual cards that you could put in that thing.

00:41:03 ◼   ► Imagine that.

00:41:04 ◼   ► But this doesn't, it still has the ability to do that, but Apple doesn't support most

00:41:08 ◼   ► of the stuff that people would want to put in there.

00:41:11 ◼   ► So anyway, I don't want to talk about the Mac Pro anymore.

00:41:15 ◼   ► There are other podcasts that will do this.

00:41:18 ◼   ► There are, there is a problem in a way I think that Apple faces though, is that the M4 is

00:41:22 ◼   ► so powerful that, that I don't, I think people are going to start to realize they can get

00:41:27 ◼   ► by with a lot less computer than they might've thought they otherwise would have needed in

00:41:31 ◼   ► the past.

00:41:32 ◼   ► I mean, you can certainly use an iPad Pro with an M4 in it and do final cut editing

00:41:36 ◼   ► in it and all that kind of stuff.

00:41:38 ◼   ► I mean, the software holds it back compared to the Mac to a degree, but you know, you

00:41:42 ◼   ► look at somebody like Chris Lawley, he does all of his YouTube editing on an iPad and

00:41:47 ◼   ► it's totally doable.

00:41:49 ◼   ► Anyway, the Mac mini looks sick.

00:41:54 ◼   ► I think this thing is so cool.

00:41:56 ◼   ► I love that they've got, they've got a bunch of ports on it, which I'm happy about.

00:42:01 ◼   ► Even on the, just the standard M4 version, they've got a bunch of ports, which is great.

00:42:06 ◼   ► The power button on the bottom, don't care.

00:42:10 ◼   ► I don't, I don't care about this at all.

00:42:12 ◼   ► I know that some people care about this.

00:42:14 ◼   ► I just put my Mac to sleep every night.

00:42:16 ◼   ► I used to turn my Mac off, but no, I just put my Mac to sleep.

00:42:21 ◼   ► I guess if, you know, I guess what I would say is like, if it's a big problem for you,

00:42:26 ◼   ► I don't know, put it upside down.

00:42:27 ◼   ► I don't know what to tell you, right?

00:42:30 ◼   ► Would there be any harm in putting it upside down?

00:42:32 ◼   ► Like just put it upside down.

00:42:33 ◼   ► It's so little in light.

00:42:35 ◼   ► It's not going to be that hard to get your finger under there and press the button if

00:42:37 ◼   ► you need to do it.

00:42:38 ◼   ► I mean, I'm like you, I don't turn my, I don't turn my Mac on or off almost ever.

00:42:42 ◼   ► So it's not, not really an issue for me.

00:42:45 ◼   ► I love that it's just kind of right in between the size of the old Mac mini and an Apple

00:42:50 ◼   ► TV.

00:42:51 ◼   ► It's, you know, five inches is nothing.

00:42:53 ◼   ► It's two inches tall.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Mm hmm.

00:42:55 ◼   ► I love it.

00:42:56 ◼   ► I think it's amazing.

00:42:57 ◼   ► Something I thought you would like Federico's digging through the tech specs.

00:43:00 ◼   ► The M4 chip supports displays that have up to 8K 120 hours.

00:43:07 ◼   ► Wasn't that a mistake?

00:43:09 ◼   ► Like some people debunked that last night.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Well, I mean, it's, it's, it's on all the pages still.

00:43:15 ◼   ► So if it's been debunked, I don't understand what that would mean.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Cause like, I think I saw something on Mastodon last night.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Well the MacBook Pro tech specs page that they published today.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Oh, maybe it was the iMac.

00:43:27 ◼   ► The problem.

00:43:28 ◼   ► Um, maybe, but the Mac mini, the MacBook Pro and I's found us on the iMac page yesterday.

00:43:35 ◼   ► Um, they support displays that are significantly higher powered than what Apple's currently

00:43:40 ◼   ► saying, which is exciting.

00:43:41 ◼   ► Uh, they do 8K 120 on the M4.

00:43:46 ◼   ► The Pro will do 4K 240 as well.

00:43:49 ◼   ► And it also has display port 2.15 on the bottom five.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:52 ◼   ► It was the, the mistake on Apple's website was on the iMac.

00:43:56 ◼   ► I'm looking at a Mac rumors article.

00:43:58 ◼   ► Uh, it says updated, uh, hours after it was published, Apple updated the tech specs for

00:44:02 ◼   ► the new iMac to confirm that the 10 core M4 chip configuration does not support, uh, 8K

00:44:09 ◼   ► up to 120 Hertz.

00:44:11 ◼   ► But instead 60 Hertz.

00:44:12 ◼   ► All right.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Well the M4 range does do that because it just depends on the computer, just not the

00:44:17 ◼   ► iMac.

00:44:18 ◼   ► Um, but the, the M4 Mac mini will do one display of up to 5K at 60 Hertz over Thunderbolt,

00:44:26 ◼   ► one display of up to 8K at 60 Hertz or 4K over 240.

00:44:30 ◼   ► And then if you go for the M4 Pro, you can do more and more and more.

00:44:34 ◼   ► I just think that is exciting.

00:44:37 ◼   ► I mean, I, I really want them to make a like studio display pro.

00:44:43 ◼   ► That's what I want.

00:44:44 ◼   ► I want promotion on a 27 inch display.

00:44:48 ◼   ► You need it for your, for when you play a cyberpunk in February.

00:44:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I can't wait.

00:44:52 ◼   ► It's going to be amazing.

00:44:54 ◼   ► Uh, so Mac book pro that was released today.

00:44:57 ◼   ► Um, the Mac book pro comes in M4, M4 pro and M4 max options.

00:45:03 ◼   ► The M4 max, I guess it's just like a monster of a computer.

00:45:06 ◼   ► I'm, I'm really, again, like all we really get is what Apple shows us.

00:45:10 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued for the speed tests and stuff like that of this one and all of the

00:45:16 ◼   ► benchmarking and it can be interesting.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Uh, the Mac book pro now has three Thunderbolt ports.

00:45:21 ◼   ► So it's one more than before.

00:45:23 ◼   ► Um, and that is, I think that's on the base one, I think has three now.

00:45:29 ◼   ► I think that's right.

00:45:30 ◼   ► Which I think was part of that Russian thing.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Like where there was Max's showing up in Russia.

00:45:35 ◼   ► I think they had an extra Thunderbolt port.

00:45:37 ◼   ► But anyway, so three Thunderbolt ports, they go up to a Thunderbolt five on the pro and

00:45:42 ◼   ► the max version.

00:45:43 ◼   ► Uh, it's on the four on the regular, the sub gen, I mean, cyberpunk is coming to the Mac.

00:45:50 ◼   ► Can't wait up to 24 hours of battery life.

00:45:51 ◼   ► The screen is brighter and they offer a nano texture option on the Mac book pro now.

00:45:55 ◼   ► 12 megapixels center stage camera, 16 gigabytes of memory standard, which is the same on

00:46:00 ◼   ► the Mac mini that's on the 14 inch.

00:46:03 ◼   ► You get 24 gigabytes of standard on the 16 inch starting prices remain the same.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Cool.

00:46:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:10 ◼   ► I mean, that's a great, I've been using an M three Mac book pro for about a year now

00:46:14 ◼   ► and it's a fantastic computer.

00:46:16 ◼   ► I mean, that's, it's a bit chunky.

00:46:18 ◼   ► It's a little heavy if you, I mean, I think I personally prefer an air and I'm kind of

00:46:23 ◼   ► waiting for an M four M five air before, before I upgrade.

00:46:27 ◼   ► But I do like the pro.

00:46:28 ◼   ► I mean, the pro is it's for the longest time now it's been the fastest computer I've been

00:46:33 ◼   ► using, but uh, but now it's the, the iPad pro is actually the fastest computer I'm using.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I love my MacBook so much.

00:46:41 ◼   ► I have an M two MacBook Air.

00:46:43 ◼   ► I love that computer.

00:46:44 ◼   ► I can imagine using it for years, you know, like I'm not pushing them to, um, for anything,

00:46:51 ◼   ► which is, you know, I love that computer, but Macbook pro is very popular.

00:46:55 ◼   ► Um, and also I think it is a, of all of the machines that Apple make, I think that the

00:47:01 ◼   ► Mac pro is the one that is most likely to see the year over year upgrades, right?

00:47:08 ◼   ► Like if you're building an X code, right?

00:47:11 ◼   ► If you can get any percent faster, that's better, right?

00:47:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you're right.

00:47:17 ◼   ► I think you're absolutely right.

00:47:18 ◼   ► I mean, that's, it's the one that makes the most sense.

00:47:21 ◼   ► And those are the people who are most likely to upgrade on a more frequent basis than an

00:47:25 ◼   ► air or anything else.

00:47:26 ◼   ► I think.

00:47:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:28 ◼   ► So super cool.

00:47:29 ◼   ► Um, I don't know if there's a ton to say that the MacBook Air also now is 16 gigabytes of

00:47:33 ◼   ► Ram, um, which is the same as the iMac, which is the first of the week, which is now an

00:47:39 ◼   ► M four 16 gigabytes of Ram standard can go up to 32 gigabytes.

00:47:43 ◼   ► They have new shades of colors.

00:47:45 ◼   ► They're keeping the same options, but in new versions they have a nano display texture

00:47:49 ◼   ► option, 12 megapixel camera.

00:47:51 ◼   ► All four USB-C ports on the MacBook on the iMac now are Thunderbolt four and also the

00:47:56 ◼   ► same starting price.

00:47:58 ◼   ► This is a very healthy, good week of Mac announcements, I think.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:04 ◼   ► Yeah, it was good.

00:48:05 ◼   ► I mean, these are a lot of things that people wanted for a long time.

00:48:07 ◼   ► I think it's worth noting with the camera that this is a center stage camera, which

00:48:11 ◼   ► these max didn't have before.

00:48:13 ◼   ► They were, it's still 10 ADP, but it's a better sensor with a wired wider field of view that

00:48:19 ◼   ► allows center stage to work.

00:48:20 ◼   ► Good point.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I didn't think about that when they were calling them center stage cameras.

00:48:24 ◼   ► I was just, I was, it just kind of washed over me, but yeah, that makes, that's cool.

00:48:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:30 ◼   ► It's just the same, same resolution, different, different angle, which allows that feed that

00:48:34 ◼   ► software feature to, to work.

00:48:35 ◼   ► I guess I was thinking today when I was looking over this and looking at our notes and looking

00:48:40 ◼   ► at Apple's web pages and stuff like that, I think that right now the Mac lineup is Apple's

00:48:47 ◼   ► best product lineup.

00:48:49 ◼   ► Like there are good options in basically every category that they sell.

00:48:55 ◼   ► The options are clear.

00:48:56 ◼   ► It's easy to know what you want when you go into it.

00:48:59 ◼   ► You kind of like, do I want my computer to have a screen?

00:49:01 ◼   ► Do I want it to be a laptop?

00:49:03 ◼   ► Right?

00:49:04 ◼   ► Like these are like very simple questions you can ask yourself.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And then from there, it's, I think very easy to understand what you're looking for.

00:49:10 ◼   ► And I think that you have the luxury of making choices about huge sacrifices because all

00:49:14 ◼   ► of the base models of everything are good and like, especially even better now, thanks

00:49:20 ◼   ► to Apple intelligence, like they've all got good Ram in them now.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Like I think at the moment they just have a very strong lineup of products.

00:49:29 ◼   ► I think it because like, you know, you compare it to the iPhone, you compare it to the iPad

00:49:35 ◼   ► and you can compare it to the Apple watch.

00:49:38 ◼   ► All of these product lineups, I think there is at least one product with pretty significant

00:49:43 ◼   ► caveat.

00:49:45 ◼   ► And I, and I don't really feel that way for the Mac except for the Mac pro, but nobody's

00:49:48 ◼   ► thinking about that.

00:49:49 ◼   ► I think I, even the Mac studio today, you buy that Mac studio now that is an incredible

00:49:54 ◼   ► computer even though it's older, but like it's very powerful and has a ton of like internal

00:50:00 ◼   ► IO.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And if that's what you want, great, right.

00:50:02 ◼   ► You're going to be able to get that.

00:50:04 ◼   ► So I just think, I don't know what you guys think about that statement, but I think like

00:50:07 ◼   ► overall right now the Mac lineup is just very healthy, I think.

00:50:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree.

00:50:14 ◼   ► I think it's easy to pick because like I look at all these Macs and I know exactly what

00:50:18 ◼   ► I'd get if I were in the market to buy one today and I can't say the same as easily with

00:50:23 ◼   ► other things.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Kind of the same for the iPhone.

00:50:25 ◼   ► Look, look at the amount of questions there have been this year.

00:50:27 ◼   ► Look at Federico, right?

00:50:28 ◼   ► Like that, that should, you know, you'd think the iPhone was the slam dunk, right?

00:50:33 ◼   ► Like everybody knows exactly what iPhone they want.

00:50:36 ◼   ► But this year it seems like the main topic of conversation around the iPhone 16 line

00:50:40 ◼   ► is which one shall I buy?

00:50:43 ◼   ► And maybe I'm good with a different one than usual, right?

00:50:45 ◼   ► Like that is, that's potentially showing that your lineup isn't as strong and as clear where

00:50:51 ◼   ► like for the Mac you can do, the iPad is to a point like this, but I think that the iPad

00:50:56 ◼   ► has a lot of inconsistencies and also where like I don't, every Mac lineup is I think

00:51:03 ◼   ► being put to its full potential, the iPad is not, right?

00:51:08 ◼   ► Like you, whatever Mac you buy, you can very easily use it to its fullest extent.

00:51:15 ◼   ► But that is not the case with the iPad, right?

00:51:17 ◼   ► Like this is the question that we every year, right?

00:51:19 ◼   ► Federico is like, Oh yeah, I probably powerful.

00:51:22 ◼   ► Shame.

00:51:23 ◼   ► I can't do a lot with it.

00:51:24 ◼   ► Like I can't, I can't push it is not do a lot of it, but I can't push it to that level.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Right?

00:51:29 ◼   ► Like the, the, the Mac book pro with them for it's the same chip, right?

00:51:35 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Yep.

00:51:37 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:51:38 ◼   ► Kind of.

00:51:39 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, it's, I would say it's probably still a bit more powerful than the M four

00:51:44 ◼   ► in the iPad, but it's, yeah, it's the same family.

00:51:46 ◼   ► It's, yeah, it's the same.

00:51:48 ◼   ► It's essentially the same thing.

00:51:49 ◼   ► That's actually the same.

00:51:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:51 ◼   ► What you can do with it.

00:51:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:53 ◼   ► So I just think right now I think Apple's there's, there's sitting pretty on this Mac

00:51:58 ◼   ► lineup and uh, I hope that they sell a lot of them because they deserve it.

00:52:02 ◼   ► I would say they're, they're telling a very compelling story right now with the Mac lineup

00:52:06 ◼   ► and with the AirPods lineup.

00:52:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Well yeah, except for the AirPods max, but we forget about those.

00:52:13 ◼   ► They're a fashion statement though.

00:52:15 ◼   ► The AirPods max are the Mac pro of that lineup.

00:52:18 ◼   ► That's a great, that's a great point.

00:52:20 ◼   ► Although I don't know if the Mac pro is as fashionable as the AirPods max.

00:52:25 ◼   ► And also they're way more popular than the Mac pro.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:29 ◼   ► Little cheaper.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Do you think, I bet this, I wonder if this is true saying about popular, do you think

00:52:35 ◼   ► Apple make more money each year from the AirPods max than they do from the Mac pro?

00:52:41 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:52:42 ◼   ► 100%.

00:52:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so too.

00:52:44 ◼   ► Yes.

00:52:45 ◼   ► That is a horrifically wild thing to consider.

00:52:47 ◼   ► Like, cause what you'd have to sell like 10 pairs of AirPods max for one Mac pro.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:56 ◼   ► You know what?

00:52:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:52:58 ◼   ► Easily.

00:52:59 ◼   ► They're doing that.

00:53:00 ◼   ► They're doing that.

00:53:01 ◼   ► They're doing that easy.

00:53:02 ◼   ► John, do you have any big picture thoughts about the Mac lineup?

00:53:05 ◼   ► No, not really.

00:53:07 ◼   ► Not that beyond what we've already said.

00:53:08 ◼   ► I mean, I think I'm really happy with the way this week turned out.

00:53:12 ◼   ► It's a, I think it's a great lineup and really puts Apple in a good place going into the

00:53:17 ◼   ► new year with a nice lineup that, you know, this, this week was strategically, I think

00:53:23 ◼   ► for the company, a smart one cause they've got an earnings call tomorrow.

00:53:26 ◼   ► And so they can go in having told the world not only about their great new Macs, but also

00:53:31 ◼   ► Apple intelligence three times before they go talk to the analysts about it.

00:53:35 ◼   ► And you know, from a, from a business standpoint, that's important.

00:53:39 ◼   ► And I think they, they did a good job kind of, I think pitching this indirectly to wall

00:53:43 ◼   ► street.

00:53:44 ◼   ► This is a bad week to be John Voorhees or Jason Snell.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Oh, I know.

00:53:51 ◼   ► I dread tomorrow because I've had a busy week already.

00:53:54 ◼   ► Like three separate Mac announcements.

00:53:59 ◼   ► Then the earnings call.

00:54:00 ◼   ► Boy, you two should commiserate on Friday.

00:54:04 ◼   ► We will.

00:54:05 ◼   ► Federico, do you want to talk to us about peripherals?

00:54:08 ◼   ► Um, well yes.

00:54:10 ◼   ► And I come with a twist.

00:54:12 ◼   ► Oh, I mean, of course you do.

00:54:14 ◼   ► Well, it's not what you think.

00:54:18 ◼   ► Of course not.

00:54:19 ◼   ► So I thought, well, um, there's now USB-C magic keyboard and USB-C magic track pads.

00:54:25 ◼   ► Let me try those again.

00:54:26 ◼   ► Uh, lately I've just been working with the iPad pro in its magic keyboard at my desk

00:54:32 ◼   ► so that I see both the iPads on display and my internal, my external display.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I use both at the same time.

00:54:41 ◼   ► I keep usually something like ivory on the iPad's display and then all the other windows.

00:54:47 ◼   ► Like for example, right now I'm recording.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I have ivory on the iPad and I have Safari, Discord, Notion and Messages on the external

00:54:56 ◼   ► display.

00:54:57 ◼   ► But I thought, well, um, let me try again with those USB-C peripherals.

00:55:01 ◼   ► I can take advantage of a little workaround that I wrote on Mac stories, I think it was

00:55:07 ◼   ► last year, uh, to sort of fake your way around having clamshell mode on an iPad.

00:55:14 ◼   ► It's not really clamshell mode.

00:55:15 ◼   ► You're basically just telling the iPad not to lock itself when you close the cover of

00:55:21 ◼   ► the magic keyboard.

00:55:22 ◼   ► It's really not clamshell mode and it comes with a whole bunch of limitations.

00:55:26 ◼   ► Like for example, what if you have to use face ID?

00:55:29 ◼   ► The iPad thinks it's unlocked and tries to find your face, but it can't.

00:55:34 ◼   ► So anyway, I thought I'm going to try fake clamshell mode again, uh, with the new peripherals.

00:55:41 ◼   ► They arrived today and, um, much to my surprise.

00:55:46 ◼   ► So I don't know if I got a faulty unit or I don't know if it's because I have iPad,

00:55:51 ◼   ► uh, my iPad pro running iPad OS 18.2 beta.

00:55:56 ◼   ► The magic trackpad doesn't work.

00:55:59 ◼   ► Um, none of the multitasking gestures are recognized, actually, none of the multi-touch

00:56:05 ◼   ► gestures are recognized.

00:56:06 ◼   ► I cannot even scroll with two fingers with this magic trackpad.

00:56:11 ◼   ► Yes.

00:56:12 ◼   ► Now, could it be that the iPad OS 18.2 beta doesn't have the necessary driver for the

00:56:19 ◼   ► brand new USB-C magic trackpad?

00:56:22 ◼   ► Most likely.

00:56:23 ◼   ► I would bet that's what's happening here.

00:56:25 ◼   ► I have the latest beta, this accessory just came out.

00:56:31 ◼   ► Um, this trackpad is not working, but I don't know.

00:56:37 ◼   ► Maybe it's a sign that I shouldn't keep it.

00:56:40 ◼   ► You know, maybe it's, I don't know because once again, I was already stretching it with

00:56:47 ◼   ► my fake clamshell mode.

00:56:50 ◼   ► And maybe this trackpad not working is a sign from the universe telling me no, teach you

00:56:54 ◼   ► just return these accessories and keep using your iPad with the magic keyboard even when

00:56:59 ◼   ► you're working at your desk.

00:57:01 ◼   ► So it was nice charging them though with USB-C.

00:57:05 ◼   ► That was cool.

00:57:06 ◼   ► That's all I will say.

00:57:09 ◼   ► It's a shame, right?

00:57:10 ◼   ► Like it's a shame.

00:57:11 ◼   ► I mean, I feel like when, when we spoke with Jason about the peripherals and we drafted

00:57:16 ◼   ► what we would like to see, uh, that it is, was very unlikely that we would get any of

00:57:22 ◼   ► the things that we wanted, but it is also just sad to have gotten nothing other than

00:57:27 ◼   ► USB-C.

00:57:28 ◼   ► Very interesting that, um, and I don't want to start a new gate here, but interesting

00:57:34 ◼   ► that people in Discord are saying that somebody else on Discord, on the relay Discord was

00:57:39 ◼   ► having similar issues where their Mac, not even an iPad, their Mac was picking up the

00:57:45 ◼   ► new magic trackpad as a mouse.

00:57:47 ◼   ► Therefore no multi-touch gestures were being properly recognized.

00:57:52 ◼   ► I wonder if this is a, uh, there might be an update, right?

00:57:55 ◼   ► Like there might be something where it's just not being recognized fully yet or something.

00:58:00 ◼   ► Maybe if you're on a beta or something, it could be an issue.

00:58:03 ◼   ► But if you were a gate, could we please call it magic gate?

00:58:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Yeah, call it magic gate and do a little quick video, put it on YouTube and see if you get

00:58:11 ◼   ► on Good Morning America.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Come on, you can do it.

00:58:15 ◼   ► You can beat Steven.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Not only I could learn from the master right now, but Sensei is not here.

00:58:21 ◼   ► You know, talking about, I was, I was thinking about this the other day.

00:58:25 ◼   ► I was using my iPad pro and I was on my home screen and was, uh, I was tapping days on

00:58:33 ◼   ► the fantastic account widget to see what was going on.

00:58:36 ◼   ► And every time I tapped a day, I could hear the processor in my, in my iPad pro.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I tap a day and I could hear it, like I could hear the whine just for a second.

00:58:46 ◼   ► You're like, "Shh."

00:58:47 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:58:48 ◼   ► Really?

00:58:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:50 ◼   ► Nothing else on my iPad was doing it.

00:58:52 ◼   ► But if I...

00:58:53 ◼   ► Because that's a pretty loud whine.

00:58:54 ◼   ► It's pretty loud.

00:58:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:57 ◼   ► Every time I was just...

00:58:58 ◼   ► I don't have that problem.

00:58:59 ◼   ► I wouldn't have been able to hear it, so I'd be fine.

00:59:00 ◼   ► Put your AirPods in and you'll be hearing everything, isn't it you?

00:59:05 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:59:06 ◼   ► I hate to hear all this about the peripherals because that's the only thing I bought this

00:59:09 ◼   ► week and mine are coming tomorrow.

00:59:11 ◼   ► I'm surprised you got them already, Federico.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

00:59:14 ◼   ► I mean, what can I say?

00:59:16 ◼   ► You know, UPS in Italy really works.

00:59:18 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess so.

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01:00:20 ◼   ► So Federico, you have had access to image playgrounds for a few days.

01:00:25 ◼   ► Oh boy.

01:00:26 ◼   ► I actually got access to image playgrounds today.

01:00:31 ◼   ► Do you want to talk about your experience over the last few days?

01:00:34 ◼   ► Yes.

01:00:35 ◼   ► I will say that you just mentioned landing on Good Morning America.

01:00:42 ◼   ► I would say that if I went ahead and shared on social media some of the images that I've

01:00:49 ◼   ► been able to create with image playgrounds in this beta, I think it would be a pretty

01:00:57 ◼   ► big deal in the sense that I've been able to create.

01:01:00 ◼   ► And you guys have seen them.

01:01:01 ◼   ► So I'm not suggesting anything without evidence.

01:01:07 ◼   ► I've been able to create some really deeply concerning images by using a specific prompt

01:01:16 ◼   ► that I don't want to share, but you guys can read it in the show notes.

01:01:22 ◼   ► And that's been unsurprising, but still concerning.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Because I know that you can trick the systems, if you're using just the right words.

01:01:34 ◼   ► And maybe we were thinking how Apple must have built an incredibly sandboxed, safe environment.

01:01:40 ◼   ► But I can tell you, it's not.

01:01:44 ◼   ► Especially in this first beta of 18.2.

01:01:48 ◼   ► I've been able to create some really awful things.

01:01:52 ◼   ► None of them involve nudity.

01:01:55 ◼   ► So at the very least, it does seem like none of Apple's models were trained on that sort

01:02:03 ◼   ► of adult content.

01:02:06 ◼   ► But yeah, being able to create some really disturbing images otherwise, especially from

01:02:12 ◼   ► a political and historical perspective.

01:02:16 ◼   ► That's what I will say.

01:02:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it, right?

01:02:19 ◼   ► Because I think it is important to state that.

01:02:22 ◼   ► Because the wording that you're using, I think, is correct.

01:02:26 ◼   ► I mean, it's even just one of these things of like, in the context of disturbing political

01:02:33 ◼   ► historical things, right?

01:02:35 ◼   ► That's the context that we're describing here.

01:02:38 ◼   ► That these images aren't like, they're not like in and of itself bad.

01:02:43 ◼   ► The problem is...

01:02:44 ◼   ► They're not graphic is the way I would say it.

01:02:46 ◼   ► They're not graphic.

01:02:47 ◼   ► No, they're not graphic.

01:02:48 ◼   ► The problem is, it's like, if you're effectively god railing, these are the obvious things

01:02:53 ◼   ► you god rail out.

01:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:02:55 ◼   ► The thing I found most surprising was the prompt accepted something that in that context

01:03:04 ◼   ► of, for example, say a location that I was requesting.

01:03:11 ◼   ► And for example, requesting laughing at that specific location or smiling at that specific

01:03:17 ◼   ► location or having a chuckle at a specific moment in time.

01:03:23 ◼   ► All those were instructions that I used.

01:03:26 ◼   ► It should have been god railed and it wasn't.

01:03:29 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:31 ◼   ► That maybe you don't necessarily want to exclude some of these things, but there are words

01:03:35 ◼   ► that you would use around them that wouldn't...

01:03:37 ◼   ► But anyway, that is one thing.

01:03:41 ◼   ► That is one thing.

01:03:42 ◼   ► And so all that set aside, like I said, I don't want to share these images.

01:03:45 ◼   ► If Apple is listening, you want to get in touch, I will probably...

01:03:49 ◼   ► And maybe I should submit this as feedback at some point.

01:03:51 ◼   ► But yeah, I think you should.

01:03:53 ◼   ► I think you should.

01:03:54 ◼   ► And I think there are tools that make that very easy to do.

01:03:58 ◼   ► But all that aside, I will say that...

01:04:02 ◼   ► I was just looking at the most recent one.

01:04:06 ◼   ► So I've also been having fun creating images of my friends and sharing them with my friends.

01:04:13 ◼   ► And by fun, I mean cringing really at those images for how bad they are.

01:04:21 ◼   ► They're terrible.

01:04:24 ◼   ► Just today...

01:04:25 ◼   ► Let's see what I created today.

01:04:27 ◼   ► There's no good imagery, right?

01:04:30 ◼   ► I asked for John as a raccoon and sure enough, it created its own version of John.

01:04:38 ◼   ► I'm just playing around with this.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It will not accept John as a dog.

01:04:42 ◼   ► Oh, interesting.

01:04:43 ◼   ► As a dog won't allow you to do that.

01:04:46 ◼   ► John as a raccoon added an extra pair of ears.

01:04:51 ◼   ► Very big ears.

01:04:52 ◼   ► There's like raccoon ears on top of the human ears.

01:04:55 ◼   ► I asked for Mike as a gondolier.

01:04:58 ◼   ► And you can see that is, sure enough, Mike wearing a gondolier hat with some gondolas,

01:05:04 ◼   ► you know, typical from Venice, Italy in the background.

01:05:07 ◼   ► Mike's expression is horrific, but at least it understood the prompt.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I believe last night I asked for Stephen as a swole police officer.

01:05:20 ◼   ► He did look exactly like that.

01:05:22 ◼   ► You're right.

01:05:23 ◼   ► And also as a distressed fisherman.

01:05:25 ◼   ► I mean, look, here's the thing, because there's not...

01:05:29 ◼   ► We can keep going into this, but I'm not going to show you this in the show notes because

01:05:32 ◼   ► I just think it's just not worth it.

01:05:34 ◼   ► I mean, essentially the overall description is you can create something that kind of looks

01:05:39 ◼   ► like someone, kind of, sometimes better than others, which is weird.

01:05:42 ◼   ► You can use the same image as like completely different people.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Kind of looks like someone, the quality of the imagery, like the actual resolution of

01:05:51 ◼   ► the imagery, terrible.

01:05:53 ◼   ► Like you zoom in at all on anything and it's a disaster.

01:05:58 ◼   ► My overall feeling on this, looking at this stuff, the image playground stuff, how could

01:06:07 ◼   ► you be proud of this?

01:06:10 ◼   ► That's what I'm coming back to.

01:06:11 ◼   ► And I feel like, I've been getting people have been sending me feedback.

01:06:14 ◼   ► I think I'm going too hard on this.

01:06:15 ◼   ► I don't.

01:06:16 ◼   ► This is my feelings on this.

01:06:17 ◼   ► If you don't like it, then you know, that's it.

01:06:21 ◼   ► I just don't understand how you could be proud of this output because it's not good.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Here's my take.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Here's my take.

01:06:29 ◼   ► And I have a post-scriptum at the end.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Right now with this image playground, Apple is in its Will Smith eating spaghetti, AI

01:06:41 ◼   ► generated video.

01:06:43 ◼   ► It's like they're basically mid journey three years ago.

01:06:47 ◼   ► So when I, after trying this, when I see those reports that Apple feels they are at least

01:06:52 ◼   ► two years behind, I believe those reports and I believe they are correct because this

01:06:57 ◼   ► is like, this is exactly the typical output of mid journey from two, three years ago.

01:07:04 ◼   ► At the same time, I think you can potentially save Genmoji.

01:07:11 ◼   ► I think Genmoji probably because they train, Genmoji is good enough because they've trained

01:07:17 ◼   ► it on their own emoji, which are my opinion, the best in the biz.

01:07:23 ◼   ► And so Genmoji is good enough.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Genmoji is fun and good enough.

01:07:28 ◼   ► Image playgrounds.

01:07:30 ◼   ► And I haven't tested there.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I don't even know.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Is the image wand available in notes?

01:07:34 ◼   ► I haven't.

01:07:35 ◼   ► It is, but like I haven't even tested it yet either.

01:07:38 ◼   ► It's kind of, it's not, I don't know.

01:07:41 ◼   ► I'm not really that particularly interested in that feature.

01:07:44 ◼   ► You know, like kind of being realistic that I'm interested in Genmoji because I actually

01:07:49 ◼   ► think it's a good idea.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I'm interested in image playgrounds because I think it's a disaster and it's fun to talk

01:07:55 ◼   ► about.

01:07:56 ◼   ► It's best to be essentially.

01:07:57 ◼   ► I think magic wand, magic wand seems more like a party trick to me in a lot of ways.

01:08:01 ◼   ► I don't know why someone would actually use that.

01:08:04 ◼   ► Maybe there's a use for it.

01:08:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I looking at these, I mean, one of my favorites is Stephen Hackett smoking a cigarette where

01:08:09 ◼   ► the cigarette is floating in mid air.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Right.

01:08:13 ◼   ► So there's, just to give you an idea and then you like Mike zooms in on his eyes and they're

01:08:17 ◼   ► pointing in different directions.

01:08:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:20 ◼   ► The eyes are so bad.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Like everybody's eyes are so bad.

01:08:23 ◼   ► They're like these weird swirls.

01:08:26 ◼   ► It's like basically it's, you've seen this style of image and the main reason you've

01:08:31 ◼   ► seen this style of image is everyone was sharing them a lot a year and a half ago because people

01:08:35 ◼   ► were using different tools to do this.

01:08:37 ◼   ► And like image playgrounds in and of itself, whatever.

01:08:44 ◼   ► Right.

01:08:45 ◼   ► Like make me an image of a sunny day with a mountain and a bunch of trees, like whatever.

01:08:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:54 ◼   ► The reason this is a problem is like, like I cannot, like I went into image playgrounds

01:09:01 ◼   ► today and it shows me the ability to create images of my two year old niece.

01:09:08 ◼   ► Now that ain't right.

01:09:10 ◼   ► Like come on.

01:09:11 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:12 ◼   ► I shouldn't be doing this.

01:09:14 ◼   ► I will not do that.

01:09:16 ◼   ► Like I shouldn't be able to do this at all.

01:09:18 ◼   ► Like Jeff's fault is someone in my photo library.

01:09:20 ◼   ► Like at the moment we're all being menaces to each other because we're good friends.

01:09:24 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Jason's griefing me.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I'm griefing Jason.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Federico's griefing me.

01:09:29 ◼   ► I'm griefing him.

01:09:30 ◼   ► Right.

01:09:31 ◼   ► But like you could, and this, you can make images of me and people are gonna like, you

01:09:37 ◼   ► know, cause why, why can't all I need is one photo of you.

01:09:42 ◼   ► I thought you would need like loads, but you just need one photo of someone and you can,

01:09:46 ◼   ► you can use that.

01:09:47 ◼   ► And I just.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Let's just, let's just say that I, to test this out, I downloaded from Wikipedia, the

01:10:00 ◼   ► photo of a past dictator and loaded it up in image playgrounds.

01:10:05 ◼   ► Federico, you're really having a time.

01:10:08 ◼   ► And he couldn't, thankfully in this case, couldn't figure out the, the facial hair is

01:10:18 ◼   ► what I'm going to say.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:20 ◼   ► But you were able to make an, you were able to make.

01:10:22 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:10:23 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:10:24 ◼   ► It did make a version of that person.

01:10:25 ◼   ► Yes.

01:10:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:29 ◼   ► Absolutely.

01:10:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:31 ◼   ► I mean, by the way, do some, this is, this is a clean show.

01:10:34 ◼   ► Do some image recognition, you know, for God's sake, do some image recognition and be like,

01:10:38 ◼   ► Hey, we don't want to create an image.

01:10:40 ◼   ► No, but you just shouldn't be able to make, make images of people.

01:10:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:44 ◼   ► Right.

01:10:45 ◼   ► You just shouldn't be able to do that.

01:10:46 ◼   ► You know, it's what you're able to make, but it's also the quality because you know, the

01:10:52 ◼   ► first thing I asked Federico to do is to ask it to make a hand and it made a hand with

01:10:56 ◼   ► six fingers, which you know, it's, it's so cliched at this point for AI to do that, but

01:11:04 ◼   ► that just shows where Apple is at with this stuff.

01:11:06 ◼   ► And I, I, I, yeah, I'm kind of with you guys on this.

01:11:09 ◼   ► I don't like it at all.

01:11:10 ◼   ► I don't have it yet because I was doing my 18 one review and didn't want to pollute my

01:11:16 ◼   ► screenshot so I didn't install it until over the weekend.

01:11:20 ◼   ► And so I don't have it yet, but believe me, I've seen plenty of it and I don't like it.

01:11:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:11:25 ◼   ► But again, it's like, it's a shame because gemmoji is, is a great feature.

01:11:31 ◼   ► And I think Apple implemented it well, right?

01:11:33 ◼   ► That like you search for an emoji and if the emoji you're looking for isn't there, they'll

01:11:37 ◼   ► like make one.

01:11:38 ◼   ► And it's like, yeah, that is good.

01:11:40 ◼   ► That's a good idea, right?

01:11:42 ◼   ► Like here is a legitimate good idea of a thing Apple can do.

01:11:46 ◼   ► And it makes sense because it shows an emoji like in messages and as tap backs and all

01:11:54 ◼   ► that kind of stuff.

01:11:55 ◼   ► And it's like, that's great.

01:11:57 ◼   ► But like the image playground, it's like, that's not very good.

01:12:01 ◼   ► Like there are thousands of free apps on the app store that do a better job than this.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Now what are they doing with that imagery?

01:12:08 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:09 ◼   ► It's a whole different thing.

01:12:10 ◼   ► It's still like a thing people can do.

01:12:12 ◼   ► I just, it's just like a weird, is a weird feature to me.

01:12:15 ◼   ► And I just, I just struggle to get my head around it.

01:12:18 ◼   ► Like this feels like it feels like they're, it's like a separate company.

01:12:22 ◼   ► It just doesn't feel like a company with who, who, who I know have great taste because this

01:12:27 ◼   ► is app is tastes.

01:12:28 ◼   ► It's tasteless.

01:12:29 ◼   ► It's part of, it's part of what the conclusion of my review of 18 one was all about was,

01:12:34 ◼   ► you know, shouldn't we expect more out of the biggest company in the world with the

01:12:38 ◼   ► heritage of Apple of, of, um, you know, championing creators and culture not to do this kind of

01:12:45 ◼   ► stuff.

01:12:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:12:47 ◼   ► I think it's a little much.

01:12:48 ◼   ► I think that there are there, we don't know what the lines are.

01:12:51 ◼   ► Right.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Like, and I think this is when I think everybody's finding their own lines and it depends on

01:12:57 ◼   ► their own contexts.

01:12:58 ◼   ► Like, but I, I, you know, I, between the three of us, we have very different lines, right?

01:13:04 ◼   ► Like I use the writing tools.

01:13:07 ◼   ► I know you two would never, right?

01:13:09 ◼   ► Like we all have our own lines.

01:13:11 ◼   ► I genuinely struggle to imagine the person who wants to create imagery of their friends

01:13:18 ◼   ► and family.

01:13:19 ◼   ► Like I don't, if you want to do this, please write in like, tell me why.

01:13:25 ◼   ► Like, and I'm not trying to say that you're wrong, right?

01:13:29 ◼   ► I just saying, I can't get my head around it.

01:13:32 ◼   ► Like if you have used this feature or you would like this feature, like please go to

01:13:38 ◼   ► connect to feedback.com, write in and tell me why.

01:13:41 ◼   ► I just want to understand.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:43 ◼   ► I think what Apple's going for and not doing a very good job at is maybe making this similar

01:13:48 ◼   ► to the, the gift button in messages that, you know, you're going to send some kind of

01:13:53 ◼   ► cute funny thing clip to somebody, but it's different in nature than that kind of thing,

01:13:59 ◼   ► obviously.

01:14:00 ◼   ► I think that that's, that's at least how they're trying to pitch it is, you know, then that's

01:14:04 ◼   ► why it's cartoony too, right?

01:14:05 ◼   ► They're trying to make it like a lighthearted in some way.

01:14:09 ◼   ► And that's certainly how Craig Federighi sees it when he talks about it in interviews and

01:14:13 ◼   ► in videos.

01:14:14 ◼   ► But they're horrifying though.

01:14:16 ◼   ► I agree.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Federico has been tormenting me for like five days now.

01:14:23 ◼   ► Like why not, why not just make all of these Memoji, right?

01:14:27 ◼   ► Like why, why isn't it just Memoji?

01:14:29 ◼   ► And like, that's a thing too, right?

01:14:32 ◼   ► Where that superhero mom image, that was Memoji, right?

01:14:41 ◼   ► It looked like Memoji, like a horrifying version of Memoji.

01:14:45 ◼   ► None of these images look like that.

01:14:47 ◼   ► No.

01:14:48 ◼   ► They look like weird humans.

01:14:50 ◼   ► They're like a really bad Pixar image in a way.

01:14:52 ◼   ► It's like, if you told somebody to make the worst possible imitation of Pixar, you could

01:14:56 ◼   ► in a way.

01:14:57 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like we have Pixar at home.

01:15:03 ◼   ► The thing that is particular of why I'm mentioning that one is like that image of the superhero

01:15:08 ◼   ► mom and like all of the eyes are really large, right?

01:15:13 ◼   ► I have not seen big eyes like that in any imagery that I like.

01:15:21 ◼   ► I don't think these images are made on what is in my phone.

01:15:30 ◼   ► There is potentially they're going to make it better, but like I haven't seen anybody

01:15:35 ◼   ► produce an image that to me looked like this.

01:15:38 ◼   ► Maybe they're out there, right?

01:15:39 ◼   ► And like, and I just haven't seen them.

01:15:42 ◼   ► But yeah.

01:15:43 ◼   ► If anything, yeah, if anything, some of the images that we've been sharing, the eyes are

01:15:46 ◼   ► too small.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Yeah, that's actually part of the problem of why they look weird.

01:15:51 ◼   ► The gondola one of you, Mike.

01:15:52 ◼   ► I mean, you have these beady little eyes that are too close together.

01:15:56 ◼   ► Like they should be more cartoonish, right?

01:16:00 ◼   ► Like they're trying to make me look like a person, like an actual person.

01:16:07 ◼   ► And I think that's part of the problem.

01:16:11 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:16:12 ◼   ► I don't want to keep being mad about this stuff, you know?

01:16:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:17 ◼   ► I think we're just gonna, I think we will within the next few months when all of this

01:16:22 ◼   ► is passed, like people will just start ignoring this stuff.

01:16:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:28 ◼   ► It'll have its moment.

01:16:29 ◼   ► It'll have its moment.

01:16:31 ◼   ► You know, we're going to have some fun.

01:16:33 ◼   ► You know, at some point they're going to get canceled because some controversy, like the

01:16:38 ◼   ► one that I'm not going to share is going to pop up because like this system is not perfect.

01:16:44 ◼   ► And we'll just move on.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Because honestly, this is like the least exciting feature of Apple intelligence, the most boring

01:16:50 ◼   ► one, and the one that's been honestly the one with the worst, most useless results.

01:16:57 ◼   ► So like a cool Craig Federighi really likes to make pictures of his dog.

01:17:01 ◼   ► I think within the next three months, the rest of the world won't care anymore.

01:17:06 ◼   ► So good luck.

01:17:08 ◼   ► You know?

01:17:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:17:11 ◼   ► That photo.

01:17:12 ◼   ► No.

01:17:13 ◼   ► I'm just, I just, I made one here.

01:17:18 ◼   ► I'm going to put it in the show notes.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Like, it's just something I just made of me wearing a beanie hat in a rainforest.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Like sure.

01:17:26 ◼   ► This is everything that's right.

01:17:27 ◼   ► It's like one.

01:17:28 ◼   ► It's not a beanie.

01:17:29 ◼   ► Why do a lot of these images put on people the weird Mr Beast smile?

01:17:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:41 ◼   ► Like, why is like my skin like speckled like that?

01:17:47 ◼   ► And like what is going on with the beard texture?

01:17:50 ◼   ► You're blushing man.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Because in the rainforest.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:53 ◼   ► It does a thing.

01:17:54 ◼   ► It does it with a lot where it has like really rosy cheeks.

01:17:55 ◼   ► I've noticed that too.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:58 ◼   ► Very strange.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Very, very strange.

01:18:01 ◼   ► But that's where we are for now.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Again, I'll just say it again.

01:18:04 ◼   ► I love, I love gemmoji as an idea.

01:18:06 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to playing around with it a little bit more.

01:18:08 ◼   ► I think like, yeah, let me make like weird little emojis.

01:18:11 ◼   ► And it's like, my expectation is like, it's that feels like it's done in the right way.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Right?

01:18:17 ◼   ► Like Apple have, cause they look like Apple's emoji.

01:18:20 ◼   ► So the trainings data is Apple's emoji.

01:18:22 ◼   ► Right?

01:18:23 ◼   ► So Apple made their own training data.

01:18:25 ◼   ► They trained us and L.M. on their own data.

01:18:28 ◼   ► And then I'm able to make things that look like emoji and send them to my friends.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Like that's like that.

01:18:33 ◼   ► Yes, you did it.

01:18:34 ◼   ► Whoever came up with that idea had a great idea.

01:18:37 ◼   ► I really liked that feature.

01:18:39 ◼   ► Ah, John, thank you for joining us.

01:18:43 ◼   ► Thank you, John.

01:18:44 ◼   ► It's been a real mix back today.

01:18:47 ◼   ► Great Max.

01:18:48 ◼   ► Terrible images.

01:18:49 ◼   ► Uh, if you want to find John online, who's John Voorhees at maxstories.net or Mastodon,

01:18:54 ◼   ► uh, J-O-H-N V-O-O-R H-W-E-S.

01:18:57 ◼   ► It's the same on threads.

01:18:59 ◼   ► It's a fun, I just know that, right?

01:19:01 ◼   ► I just know it from hearing you say it.

01:19:02 ◼   ► I know how to say it in your way.

01:19:03 ◼   ► J-O-H-N.

01:19:04 ◼   ► I've been saying it a lot.

01:19:05 ◼   ► V-O-O-R H-W-E-S.

01:19:06 ◼   ► Goodbye Federico.

01:19:07 ◼   ► What do you say?

01:19:08 ◼   ► Talk to you next week Federico.

01:19:09 ◼   ► Ciao John.

01:19:10 ◼   ► Ciao John.

01:19:11 ◼   ► No, we're not done yet.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Federico is at maxstories.net or Mastodon.

01:19:14 ◼   ► He's at Fiteechi V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Incredible.

01:19:16 ◼   ► I'm I-M-Y-K-E.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Uh, thanks so much for listening.

01:19:18 ◼   ► Thank you to Vanturm Squarespace for the support of this show.

01:19:19 ◼   ► We've had a good time in October, but let me tell you, I'm ready for Steven to be back.

01:19:20 ◼   ► No offense, John.

01:19:21 ◼   ► No offense Federico.

01:19:22 ◼   ► I'm just ready to be back.

01:19:23 ◼   ► I'm just ready to be back.

01:19:24 ◼   ► I'm just ready to be back.

01:19:25 ◼   ► I'm just ready to be back.

01:19:26 ◼   ► I'm just ready to be back.

01:19:27 ◼   ► I'm just ready to be back.

01:19:36 ◼   ► Daddy, come back, Daddy.

01:19:41 ◼   ► Daddy, please, Daddy.

01:19:42 ◼   ► We missed you.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Daddy, come back.

01:19:44 ◼   ► He's never coming back.

01:19:46 ◼   ► Uh, my hope for next week's episode, like I'm not, I'm not going to put this to Steven

01:19:52 ◼   ► directly and Steven, if you're listening to this, don't take this as a thing, but if you

01:19:55 ◼   ► want to do this, like we, me and Federico could just have no idea.

01:19:59 ◼   ► And you're just coming back with all the things that you've been wanting to talk about.

01:20:02 ◼   ► That is my hope for the episode.

01:20:04 ◼   ► Like Steven has like three topics.

01:20:06 ◼   ► We don't know what they are.

01:20:07 ◼   ► And it's like, Steven's been away for a month and he has things to say.

01:20:11 ◼   ► That's been my assumption for AOB.

01:20:14 ◼   ► I was saying to him, like, I was talking to him, like, I imagined it.

01:20:16 ◼   ► I think it was the case.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Like, this has been the hardest week, I'm sure.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Right.

01:20:21 ◼   ► Because like there's actual max stuff to talk about.

01:20:22 ◼   ► He nearly got away with it, but we nearly got to the end.

01:20:26 ◼   ► Uh, thanks for listening to this episode of connected.

01:20:29 ◼   ► We'll be back next time.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Talk to you next week, Federico.

01:20:33 ◼   ► Ciao Mike.

01:20:36 ◼   ► (laughing)