PodSearch

Connected

526: At Least Mine Has Four Legs

 

00:00:00   [Music]

00:00:07   From Relay, this is Connected, episode 526.

00:00:11   Today's show is brought to you by NetSuite, SmarterWorld and ExpressVPN.

00:00:15   I am the Ricky Benchman, Mike Hurley, and I have the pleasure of introducing to you all Federico Vittucci.

00:00:20   Hi Federico.

00:00:21   Hello, it's me. How are you Mike?

00:00:24   I'm, you know, I'm tired, but I'm fine.

00:00:27   Yeah, yeah. And in this very special occasion, after four weeks away, spent in the wilderness,

00:00:37   spent apparently becoming a gamer and doing many other things, including running cables and wires and installing things and fishing and whatnot.

00:00:50   I'm very happy to welcome back to the show, Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen.

00:00:55   Hello. It is good to be back. I have missed you all.

00:00:59   He has returned. He has returned.

00:01:01   Here I am.

00:01:02   What a day.

00:01:03   When I was most needed, he returned to Gotham City.

00:01:06   You are, you want the hero we want, but you're the hero we deserve.

00:01:11   Wow.

00:01:12   Isn't that the line?

00:01:13   Yeah, but you are the hero we got regardless.

00:01:18   Doesn't really feel like a compliment anymore.

00:01:22   You know, that's what we got.

00:01:24   The hero we're stuck with. Yes, I enjoyed the show.

00:01:30   Connected is the only podcast that I listened to consistently on my break.

00:01:33   The others I was kind of in and out of and I just this morning, I really declared bankruptcy and overcast, but I wanted to hear y'all and thank you.

00:01:41   A huge thank you to John for filling in a couple of times.

00:01:44   I cannot say thank you enough.

00:01:45   That's not accurate. It was John and Jason.

00:01:48   John and Jason.

00:01:49   The double J.

00:01:50   The double J.

00:01:51   Two Johns, as they're called when they're together.

00:01:53   Yeah, I don't know what happened to James.

00:01:54   I don't know what he was, but he didn't make it.

00:01:57   Didn't make it.

00:01:57   But no, I know me being away put a lot of extra work on everybody.

00:02:01   So thank the two.

00:02:02   Thank you, the two of you for helping make that possible.

00:02:05   And I'm very happy to be back.

00:02:06   Well, yeah.

00:02:09   Yeah.

00:02:10   Jokes on you.

00:02:10   We got all the topics done with AI.

00:02:12   So we did no work.

00:02:15   Wow.

00:02:16   That's okay.

00:02:17   That is not true.

00:02:18   That is not true.

00:02:19   Okay.

00:02:19   That is not true.

00:02:20   Yeah.

00:02:20   We got to talk about the thing, right?

00:02:22   Let's do it.

00:02:23   Let's just do it.

00:02:26   Let's just do it.

00:02:27   Steven, why don't you start?

00:02:28   It feels like this affects you the most.

00:02:30   Yeah, it does.

00:02:30   I mean, we're recording this on Wednesday, November 6th.

00:02:34   You would not know that because the date is not part of the introduction of the podcast for some reason.

00:02:38   But, you know, the day after the election in the US,

00:02:42   and I know that many of you, including myself, are not happy with how things turned out.

00:02:48   And it's sobering and scary, and I know a lot of people are hurting.

00:02:53   And I'm sorry.

00:02:55   I'm sorry that that's the case.

00:02:56   And I know many of us spent the night doom scrolling.

00:03:00   I certainly did.

00:03:01   I woke up at like 1.30.

00:03:04   I was in bed and my wife had already gone to sleep, but I was like, I woke up and my phone was still in my hand, which is not a good feeling.

00:03:10   Like, not good.

00:03:14   So, yeah, we're yeah, it's a sobering day.

00:03:18   I think that looking at last time, it's going to be a difficult period.

00:03:30   Right?

00:03:31   I think that's probably the easiest way to say that.

00:03:34   Like, I don't necessarily feel like people are more equipped to know what the next four years are going to bring,

00:03:43   just to know that it's going to be a lot.

00:03:48   And like, one of the things that I've been struck by in reminiscing, if you'd call it that on that period of time,

00:03:56   is it's not just the things that are happening, but just how much you're going to hear about it.

00:04:02   Right?

00:04:03   Like that was, I think, one of the defining things of the first Trump presidency is the media reaction to it.

00:04:12   And I was watching a live stream from a podcast I like called The Restless Politics,

00:04:18   and they had a journalist from The Guardian who was on their live stream, and she was like, as a journalist,

00:04:26   she was like, well, I have a lot to write about.

00:04:28   And there is a kind of a thing of like, yeah, they're gonna.

00:04:32   Like, it was good for the journalism industry last time, and it will be again this time.

00:04:37   So, you know, think about that in your lives, about how much you want to take on it.

00:04:42   But anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole now, and I'm going to reject immediately out of and just say,

00:04:46   I think we will continue to do over this period of time, the thing that we are actually best to do,

00:04:53   which is every single week, try and entertain you.

00:04:56   That's what we're here to do and to provide some escape from time to time.

00:05:00   That's what we're here for.

00:05:01   That's what we'll do.

00:05:02   Yep, it's still OK to care about iPhone rumors and adorable Mac minis.

00:05:08   And yeah, that's OK.

00:05:11   And we don't have to let the world weigh us down.

00:05:13   And, you know, I would say be kind to each other.

00:05:16   There are people who are struggling and who will struggle for years to come because of this.

00:05:20   And so be kind, look out for each other and we'll get through it.

00:05:26   Yeah.

00:05:26   Yeah, I just wanted to say that I feel like we are almost obligated to keep doing what we do and,

00:05:35   you know, say stupid jokes and talk about the new Apple rumors.

00:05:41   And we're going to do that today.

00:05:42   We're going to keep doing it.

00:05:44   Obviously, the thought that we, the three of us, we can do this without fearing for any other consequences,

00:05:55   because, like, let's I mean, let's face it, especially Mike and I, like, you know, it's not like we have other thoughts or really any.

00:06:06   I guess what I'm saying is that we're lucky and we're privileged and we are in a position to be able to say,

00:06:11   well, we'll just keep talking about tech, you know, because that's what people want.

00:06:13   And obviously we can do this.

00:06:15   And we find comfort in the idea that we have listeners and readers who can find some escapism in what we do.

00:06:26   But at the same time, I think, and I speak for the three of us,

00:06:30   we are fully aware of the fact that this is a privileged spot that we're in and that and that if other people,

00:06:40   if certain listeners or readers, they cannot possibly have the energy or the time to listen to us anymore and to,

00:06:51   you know, to just be silly for 90 minutes that we understand that.

00:06:57   But I would say similarly, I agree with what you're saying, but I encourage people to try and find these things in their lives.

00:07:03   I think so, too. I think so, too. And I think it's important.

00:07:08   It doesn't hit. Right. I think I don't really have any advice because like,

00:07:16   I was not like if you ask me, you know, I don't know, 10 years ago, 15 years ago,

00:07:22   I wouldn't have imagined this timeline, honestly.

00:07:27   But this is this is what's happening. And so.

00:07:31   What can we do? Right. We can keep providing the show.

00:07:34   We can keep I can keep writing Max stories. Steven can keep, you know, finding weird Apple support documents.

00:07:40   That's what we do. We're going to support, you know, we're going to I think now more than ever support each other,

00:07:48   because even though, you know, you may not be happy with what has happened.

00:07:53   I am not personally. Lots of others like us are not. But that doesn't change the fact that you have you can have your community.

00:08:02   You can have your friends. You can have your family. You can have your you know,

00:08:07   you can find your small corners of brightness if you go looking for for them, you know.

00:08:17   Yeah. And if you are happy with this news, which of course lots of people will be,

00:08:24   I think a lot of the same things apply of just like just be nice to people, though.

00:08:28   Yeah. I mean, yeah. I don't I think people can understand that.

00:08:32   Like the thing is none of us and most likely none of our listeners were not in charge of anything.

00:08:39   Politically speaking, you know, we're all just passerby in in this in this.

00:08:45   I don't even know how to describe in this stage play that is happening.

00:08:49   I mean, especially me and you, Federico.

00:08:51   This isn't what I mean. Like, we're just like, I couldn't do anything.

00:08:56   Nobody, nobody, even our listeners, you know, even our listeners, if there's people who sits on the

00:09:02   completely opposite side of the political spectrum.

00:09:06   There's nothing that we can do about it. And this is how democracy works.

00:09:10   Sometimes you like it. Sometimes you don't. And as long as it stays a democracy.

00:09:18   That's a big ask.

00:09:22   It shouldn't be.

00:09:24   Shouldn't be. We're going too long on this now.

00:09:27   Let's just move on and love each other.

00:09:30   Yes. Yeah. Love each other and get on with the show.

00:09:33   Follow up.

00:09:35   Follow up.

00:09:36   Several people wrote in about Tim Cook's multiple Mac situation, and I sort of merged several

00:09:46   pieces of feedback into this, but the gist of it is that multiple Macs is completely normal for a

00:09:54   lot of people who work at Apple. You typically have one Mac reading, like using like the nightly

00:10:00   builds of Mac OS or whatever product you work on. And then you've got the one where you do your

00:10:05   actual work because your beta machine is always broken.

00:10:08   One person wrote in to say the laptop you carry around to meetings is probably not the laptop you

00:10:13   want to be crashing and kernel panicking every five minutes unless that meeting needs you to

00:10:18   demonstrate the crash, which is kind of funny to me. So I don't know what Tim Cook's nightly

00:10:25   software situation is. Mike, when you interview him about his workflows, please ask about the

00:10:30   state of the betas on Tim Cook's devices. But I thought it was an interesting insight and one that

00:10:35   even though I do this and I know y'all have done it in the past, and a lot of us who cover this

00:10:40   stuff will have, you know, like I've got an M1 MacBook Air that in the summer runs the betas,

00:10:45   right? And it's okay if that machine explodes because I'm not doing my work on it,

00:10:49   but apparently that's quite common at Apple. I will say though, yeah, but remember it wasn't

00:10:56   just two laptops. He was using three Macs. He was using three Macs. So, you know, I just thought

00:11:04   that was the thing. It's like, oh, he just used all of them. He just uses so many. To be fair,

00:11:09   it was like a full on Apple store worth of setup. Yeah, sure. You know, so I, you know, missed the

00:11:18   conversation about that interview, but the thing that jumped out at me the most was like, he has

00:11:24   a favorite soft drink and they don't have it at Apple Park. Oh yeah. Mountain Dew, right? Was it

00:11:28   down Mountain Dew? Is he just stopping by 7-Eleven every morning and picking the one up? Also,

00:11:35   I mean, Tim Cook's in good shape, so I guess he can like have a soda every day. Like, I'm not

00:11:39   judging, but it's also striking to me as odd that he has a favorite soda. I feel like he would be a

00:11:44   water-only kind of guy. Interesting. Everyone's got a vice and this is Tim Cook's, like this is him,

00:11:51   like this is his vice, right? He doesn't smoke. He doesn't drink. Diet Mountain Dew every afternoon.

00:11:56   So I did get word from someone, did a little bit of on the ground research. There are no Pepsi

00:12:01   products at Apple Park, is what I was told. Okay, so they got a contact with Coke, I guess maybe.

00:12:06   But again, who made the deal, right? Like Tim, you can make this deal, right? Like,

00:12:13   you just call Pepsi. Maybe it's like, maybe there's like a Gil Amelio thing. Was it Amelio came from

00:12:19   Pepsi? Maybe there's like a... That was John Sculley. Oh, John Sculley, that's it. Maybe

00:12:24   there's like, you know... Anti-Pepsi. There's like a No Pepsi now after that. Fascinating,

00:12:29   fascinating. You know. We got good news here in Memphis. Basketball season is upon us,

00:12:35   which is excellent. I went to the first University of Memphis home game on Monday night

00:12:38   and our basketball arena... Can I try and guess the name of the team? Because I think I know it.

00:12:45   Yeah. Is it the Grizzlies? That's the NBA team. That's the professional team. The college team

00:12:52   is the Tigers. They're very good, very good. Why are two different animals? These are two

00:12:57   different teams. They're two different teams. Well, but they should have been like, I don't know,

00:13:00   the Cubs and the Grizzlies. Yeah, well, they're the Grizzlies. They should have been like that.

00:13:04   They're the Grizzlies because they came from Vancouver and we don't have grizzly bears in

00:13:09   Tennessee, at least in my part of Tennessee. I don't know about other places, but

00:13:12   the basketball arena has switched from Pepsi products to Coke products, which is excellent news

00:13:23   and makes up for the fact that the football stadium went the other way. They were Coke and

00:13:27   now they're Pepsi. So like Pepsi's awful. That's what I'm saying. Wow. I think... Write me about

00:13:35   that feedback form, you know. I think Pepsi has the better ancillary products though to the Cola.

00:13:43   Because they got Mountain Dew and the others. Do they have Dr. Pepper? Dr. Pepper is independent.

00:13:48   Is that... Oh, interesting. I think. Who owns Dr. Pepper? I always thought that people who are like,

00:13:56   oh no, I prefer Pepsi. It's like performance art. Like you say it because it's like...

00:14:01   Because I don't truly believe it. I just want the attention Federico. Dr. Pepper is its own brand

00:14:08   and they also own Gatorade and Tropicana and some other stuff. Dr. Pepper is the best soft drink.

00:14:15   My favorite. But yeah, it's up there. But really Pepsi just has... All I'm thinking,

00:14:22   they just have Mountain Dew, which I like. That's kind of all I care about. So I'm actually going

00:14:27   to say no Coke is best. Yeah. Okay. So anyways, kernel panics. That's why people have multiple

00:14:33   Macs. Rick wrote in about the continuing availability of the Mac Pro. I know something

00:14:39   that both of you are really concerned about and talked about, even though you can't put GPUs

00:14:45   inside of them, you can host multiple cards holding SSDs. And that's one thing I did when

00:14:51   I had my Intel Mac Pro. I had a couple of cards in there with additional storage. I had my time

00:14:56   machine and my nightly bootable backup internal, which is pretty cool. And then Rick also wrote in

00:15:02   that an audio in particular, audio processing cards can be common. Rick wrote, I know of a

00:15:09   composer that previously used a 2019 Mac Pro network with multiple PCs for his work, but now

00:15:14   uses the rack-mounted M2 Ultra Mac Pro instead. I love the rack-mounted Mac Pro. It's cool.

00:15:22   It's cool. We were getting real-time follow-up last week in a Discord about this stuff,

00:15:27   and I still stand by what I said. There's nothing to put in these Macs anymore. There isn't. There

00:15:33   are better options now than buying a Mac Pro for anything that you would have bought a Mac Pro for

00:15:38   before. That's my feeling. Good news. I guess now a new Mac Pro is going to be made in the US again.

00:15:46   So wow. Thanks Tim Apple. Look, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. We got like 20 minutes in before

00:15:55   the first joke. I am so sorry, but this is how I cope. Okay. No, look, what else are we going to

00:16:03   do? I said to Adina this morning, I said, I feel sorry for Steven because there's no way we're

00:16:07   going to let him get through the episode and you have proven it Federica, so I appreciate it.

00:16:13   I really voted the first day. This isn't on me. I tried. No one said it was on you.

00:16:19   But like you're the conduit. Federica applied it before we recorded.

00:16:22   You're the conduit. You are the conduit. We can just follow this through.

00:16:27   That's a different podcast. So Mike, you have been, historically, you're a flip-flopper when

00:16:34   it comes to Apple hardware. This is well known. It's me. I'm the flip out of the three of us.

00:16:41   What are you doing with your Apple watch? Cause you've been, you've been on a journey here.

00:16:44   I have neither flipped nor flopped. I was thinking about getting the series 10 and Federico suggested

00:16:49   that I don't and I didn't and I, let me say Federico was right. I'm not getting, I'm,

00:16:54   I'm sticking with my Apple watch. Okay. There you go. Wait, what do you say? Okay. Okay.

00:16:58   I don't want to give up on the battery. And for me, like my thinking was, Oh, you know,

00:17:03   at some point Apple's going to come out with like a, you know, like this big new watch design and

00:17:09   it's, and it's not going to be on the ultra line. It's going to be like the series line.

00:17:13   And at that point I'll have to give up like the battery gain. So I might as well rip the bandaid

00:17:19   off and deal with it, but I've decided, no, I like my Apple watch ultra. I like that. I don't

00:17:25   have to think about the battery life. I just am going to stick with it for now. I'm not going to

00:17:29   change to the Apple watch series 10. Um, and so I'm sticking with it. So I'm taking a Federico

00:17:35   approach on this one. Nice. Nice. Yeah. I think you'd be happy. Go ultra. I mean, I'm still,

00:17:39   I have my launch day ultra one and it's still rocking and rolling, but I would like to make

00:17:45   an appeal to Apple to do a better job with the bands in the next season. Cause I don't think

00:17:49   they did a good job with the bands this season. There's usually like one season in the year where

00:17:53   like I find the band colors to not be that good. So I hope, you know, maybe the next one,

00:17:59   they can, they can nail it for me. Yeah. Uh, the ultra doesn't get the band updates every time

00:18:06   the regular watch does, which is kind of a letdown. Like they should do them. They should do them all

00:18:11   and not all of them are going to be popular. Right. I would, I would love to know how, how

00:18:16   those things do, but they should turn those over at the same time for all the watches.

00:18:21   Oh, I'm also going to say Apple. Look, I know you're struggling over there, but like,

00:18:26   just, just go back to leather for the watch straps. Just go back to leather. Just get rid

00:18:32   of fine woven. Just go back to leather. Like, come on, you know, fine woven is not right.

00:18:37   Just make watch straps and leather charge more money for them. I don't know, but let's go back

00:18:44   to leather for the watch straps. Okay. What about a leather vision pro strap? That would be gross.

00:18:50   That would be hot and gross. Uh, so Belkin, the company that Apple gets to make products,

00:18:57   Apple's ashamed to make is now making a top head strap for the Apple vision pro. So Lynette band,

00:19:03   this basically looks like what they showed off at the launch. Right? I mean, Mike,

00:19:06   in Federica, y'all had demos at WBC last year. Is this pretty much what they had?

00:19:12   This is no, no, no. Okay. I mean, it is close. It's very, very close. Like the strap itself

00:19:23   is close, but the way it attaches. Right. So like it attaches with that like plastic thing that

00:19:28   locks around kind of like those 3d printed things where the ones that we tried, like it was attached

00:19:34   to the inside in the same way that the solo top is. So like it was that kind of like double

00:19:39   thickness magnetic thing that clipped into the side. Like it was, it was attached, sorry,

00:19:44   to the solo knit the same way that the jewel loop band is. You know what I mean? Got it. Okay.

00:19:51   That's what I meant to say. So it was like the, it was the actual thing that I want, which is the

00:19:56   amalgamation of both things. So, but yeah, this looks interesting. I have the Spigen one.

00:20:03   I'm happy with the Spigen one. If the Belkin one proves to be better than great. I do like the look

00:20:09   of the Belkin one because it looks like it has easier adjustability. Yeah. It looks pretty good.

00:20:14   I think it looks nice. And so we'll see what this one looks like. The, the, the actress said the

00:20:22   strap itself looks like the strap that we use Federico, right? Like the actual strap, but the

00:20:27   attachment, I'm not sure about where that came from. Um, but yeah. So if people like this,

00:20:34   I may buy yet another, uh, vision pro headband because the Spigen one I like, but I think I would

00:20:41   like it to be a little bit tighter sometimes. And I think I'm at the tightest. So, um, this,

00:20:47   this might be a better option. It looks very comfortable. I continue to be so fascinated by

00:20:52   Belkin's role as effectively Apple's fixer. Like they just go in and solve the problems.

00:21:01   It's what a, what a fascinating relationship they have. Um, maybe they can sneak some diet,

00:21:07   diet Mount Dew in there, you know? I mean, yeah, I don't get it. This is like, what's the only thing

00:21:13   that Belkin doesn't make. That's still Logitech, Logitech's deal. Like they, they don't make, um,

00:21:20   iPad keyboards. I'm surprised that Belkin doesn't make those. Uh, because that Apple do a good job.

00:21:27   Right. Belkin clean up the things that Apple don't do a good job with. Right. Or, or they need,

00:21:33   they need an, they need an alternative where Apple's keyboards are like, they work great.

00:21:39   Yeah. I, uh, I wonder like what that arrangement is because I can't, some of the stuff that Belkin

00:21:46   do for Apple like this, I can't imagine sell very well. So like, um, I mean, I would love to know

00:21:53   what that arrangement looks like. Like our Apple, our Apple pain Belkin to, I think they are. I,

00:21:59   I think they, I think they're like on a retainer to design these accessories that Apple just want,

00:22:05   doesn't want to make him put an Apple logo on them. And as the discord points out,

00:22:09   I was Googling it. Uh, Belkin got bought by Fox con in 2018. So, you know, Apple already has a,

00:22:17   I mean, Apple was doing Belkin stuff before then, but it's just, you know, I had just forgotten

00:22:21   Fox con bought Belkin links us and a Waymo Waymo. Waymo's a different thing. That's way

00:22:29   most self-driving cars. We have self-driving cars. What's Waymo. Well, that's the, uh,

00:22:34   Remember the, the back of Waymo. Yeah. The first Google thing. Why has Waymo discontinued?

00:22:40   Okay. Uh, last thing and follow up. Uh, y'all spoke about thunderbolt five coming on the new

00:22:51   M4 pro and M4 max computers, which is very exciting. OWC as they're wanting to do has

00:22:58   announced a SSD that will support thunderbolt five, the, uh, Envoy ultra two terabytes PlayStation

00:23:08   two. It kind of does. Doesn't it? I'm looking at the picture. It looks like a PlayStation,

00:23:13   kind of the ribs around it. I think it's nice. Yeah. Um, one of the, uh, so there's two models,

00:23:20   $400 for two terabytes, $600 for four terabytes up to 6,000 megabits a second and, uh, backward

00:23:29   compatible to thunderbolt three. If you've got a, a lesser Mac at a certain point, is it too fast?

00:23:37   The bits flat at the end? No, it's never too fast. That is 6,000 megabytes per second. No,

00:23:45   it's never too fast. File sizes go up. Display resolutions go up. It'll never be too fast.

00:23:52   10 years from now, you'll be wishing for thunderbolt six. I wasn't wishing for five.

00:23:57   You deep down your heart knows you were. Yeah. It's a, yeah. It's like fiber, you know,

00:24:08   deep down you wanted it. That's right. The cable is built in to the drive chassis. They say that's

00:24:14   a benefit because they can make it waterproof and you can go swimming with your very expensive SSD.

00:24:19   Uh, if you want to. Sure. I'm now surfing the OWC website. Steven, if you ever come across the OWC

00:24:28   Thunder Bay flex eight Thunder Bay Thunder Bay, it looks like a mini Mac pro. It's like a little Mac

00:24:37   pro that you put loads of drawers. Oh yeah. Don't don't give him more ideas. Back in the day.

00:24:43   This was called the guardian Maximus. It basically looked the same.

00:24:47   And it, I had one, it had two, three and a half inch drives in it. I had it rated. That's how I

00:24:55   kept my like iTunes library back in the day. Guardian Maximus. What a great name for a product.

00:25:02   I mean, Thunder Bay is also good. So whoever's coming up with OWC names is good. Thunder Bay.

00:25:12   They have like a whole range. Save us guardian Maximus. You're our only hope.

00:25:16   This episode of connected is brought to you by net suite. What does the future hold for business?

00:25:25   Well, if you ask nine different experts, you're going to get 10 different answers.

00:25:28   Some say rates will rise or fall. Others say inflation is up or down. The only way business

00:25:34   owners can know for sure is if someone events a crystal ball. Until then over 40,000 businesses

00:25:42   have future proofed with net suite by Oracle, the number one cloud ERP bringing accounting,

00:25:48   financial management, inventory, HR, and more into one fluid platform.

00:25:54   With one unified business management suite, there's one source of truth,

00:25:58   giving you the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions. No crystal ball needed.

00:26:04   So with real time insights and forecasting, you can peer into the future with actionable data.

00:26:11   So when you're closing your books and days and not weeks, you're spending less time looking backward

00:26:15   and more time on what's next. Having a single source of truth is huge in business. It makes

00:26:22   decisions not only faster, but it makes you more confident that you're making the right call. So

00:26:27   whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, net suite helps you respond

00:26:32   to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. Speaking of opportunity, go

00:26:38   download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning at net suite.com/connected. The free guide is

00:26:46   waiting for you at net suite, N E T S U I T E, net suite.com/connected. Our thanks to net suite

00:26:55   for the support of the show and relay. So Steven you're back and everybody's been dying to know,

00:27:05   what have you been doing? Yeah, that's like, uh, that reminds me of like an early iPad keynote and

00:27:12   Tim Cook was like, everyone's been wondering what we'll do for the next iPad. Like no one's wondering

00:27:17   Tim quick, quick question upfront. Have you tried ayahuasca? Just wondering. That's a game.

00:27:26   Obviously I'm a gamer. Yes. Sure. Is it a game? Let's go with that. Yep. It is. It is. Did you

00:27:33   try it? No, I feel like I've stumbled into something here that I'm going to stop talking

00:27:36   cause it feels uncomfortable. Steven I love you so much. You know, the great thing is that he can't

00:27:45   Google that. Like there is no way in which he will be able to Google that. Nope. I'm just walking away

00:27:50   from it. I kept a list. Well, Steven, lots of people who go away for a long time and come back

00:28:00   inspired. They perform that activity. So, uh, yeah, obviously you haven't. So write us in, send me a

00:28:11   gift. I anticipated this question and I made a checklist of things that I did on my break.

00:28:16   Okay. Installed a new stereo in the truck, built a new Ikea like a long time ago. I remember you

00:28:24   doing that. That was a month ago. Built or assembled a new Ikea bed for one of my children.

00:28:31   It has like a pull out drawers under the bed. It's awesome. Get all the stuff in the way. Very good.

00:28:36   We had to have a, no, this was before I think it was before. Yeah. We had my daughter's iPhone

00:28:45   repaired. Or maybe I'd set that up and then did it on the break. I forget, but she, she broke her

00:28:51   phone. Uh, we went to the zoo as a family with some friends of ours from out of town, uh, detailed my

00:28:57   wife's van inside and out. I took a whole day. Did you find the thing that was rolling around in

00:29:02   there? So here's the thing. So I don't know. I, I took the front seats out of the van, like

00:29:09   unplugged, like under the battery, undid all the little connectors under the seat, unbolted them.

00:29:15   The seats were sitting in my front yard and I pulled a bunch of carpet up and I couldn't find

00:29:21   a marble, but I did find this like piece of hard plastic that was just kind of in there. And not

00:29:27   even, I don't even know where, what it was from. And I removed that, uh, throw it away. And my wife

00:29:33   has said, she's not heard the sound since, but the sound was intermittent to begin with. So

00:29:37   I think maybe, but I really, it sounded like a marble and I didn't find a marble. So I don't know.

00:29:44   I mean, really the fact that you did all of that and didn't introduce a new sound is really the

00:29:50   win. It really is. Yeah. The fact that you took the seats out and didn't introduce a new rattling

00:29:56   or anything into the van. Yeah. Like why is, yeah. Why is this, why does everything sound shaky?

00:30:01   I will put, I'm putting a picture of the van taken apart in the discord for our members.

00:30:09   Detailed the van, early voted, spoke to a journalism class at the University of Memphis.

00:30:18   Did they give you a degree yet? Not yet. I mean, I have a degree. I would like an honorary doctorate.

00:30:22   Yeah. Yeah. Doctor. Or I would take distinguished journalism alumni award,

00:30:27   which is also real. Also have not been given that. Didn't Ricky at St. Jude win that?

00:30:31   I don't know. Is that true? I think he said he got that. Didn't he? We were talking about it.

00:30:36   Oh, Ricky may have an unfortunate accident. Uh, ordered and received a Sony Mavica,

00:30:44   which is a digital camera from the nineties and early two thousands that shoots on floppy disk.

00:30:48   So you posted some images of this, uh, on your, on your Instagram. I think I urged you to do it

00:30:55   because I, I said, if you just said, look how much better this is than the iPhone, uh, uh,

00:31:00   computer program, what do they call it? Uh, computation, computer programming photos,

00:31:08   they call them basically because there's this been this meme, federal, I'm sure you've seen it on

00:31:12   threads where it's like, Oh, I'm using my iPhone three GS and just look at the warmth of these

00:31:17   images. So I was actually, I actually agree with most of them. I'm not saying, look, I'm not saying

00:31:24   it's wrong. I'm just saying it's a thing people are doing. I know it's a thing. I know it's a

00:31:28   thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I urge Steven to post his, uh, floppy disk photos, uh, as a,

00:31:34   as a way to prove that some of these images look really good and some of them don't. And the best

00:31:39   one is the last one. It's all over the place. The second, the last one quality wise. Um, and the

00:31:44   sound it makes. So it takes the picture instantly, but it takes like nine seconds to save it to the

00:31:49   floppy disk and the sounds this thing makes unbelievable. Uh, I got four books read.

00:31:55   I cut down a small tree in my yard with an ax. Oh, this is the tree. Do you, okay. Just in the way,

00:32:06   uh, reported to federal jury duty, but was not selected for a jury. Oh no, no, no. It's good

00:32:15   because if he would have been selected for jury duty, we maybe never would have seen him again.

00:32:18   Was it a, was it a murder case? No, but it was a violent crime. Unfortunately. Okay.

00:32:26   The guy was guilty for sure. Built a shelter for firewood to keep firewood dry. Okay. Uh,

00:32:34   when fishing with my dad, got a COVID-19 booster. Congrats. Signed up for AT&T fiber.

00:32:42   Learn more about that. Cause you got the boost. Do you think? Yeah. Oh, maybe that's what it was.

00:32:46   Increase the speed of gigabit inside and out. You know, let's go, uh,

00:32:52   volunteer with my brother's nonprofit pressure, watched the porch and driveway. Sure. Uh,

00:33:01   detailed the truck and then I'm not going to read their names, but I had several. So I told

00:33:07   a lot of people in my life like, Oh, let's catch up in October. Cause September is so busy and

00:33:11   everyone cashed that in. And so I had multiple breakfasts and lunches with people, which was

00:33:16   really great. Uh, this reads like a bucket list of things I want to do before I turn 40. Yeah.

00:33:23   Well, you know, some of us that's pretty close. Yeah. And, uh, and I had, I also had lots of days

00:33:29   where like, I just, you know, was a couch potato. Like it wasn't busy every day. Were you bored?

00:33:34   Or were you bored? Did you forget? Like, did you get bored? You know, the last week

00:33:38   I definitely was like ready to get back to work. Like I kind of felt like I kind of, and I had,

00:33:43   I had other to do things on my list around the house that I just decided like, it's important

00:33:47   to have some days where I don't do anything. So yeah. Um, well, I mean that last week was real

00:33:52   tempting though. Like Apple was really trying to pull you back in. Right. And, and that was

00:33:58   really strange. Like in terms of things I didn't do, no podcasting, no writing. I only listened

00:34:04   to connected. I'd, I heard some of other podcasts, but not all of them. And I only kind of lightly

00:34:10   kept up with the news now until that last week when there was a new Mac every day. And then I

00:34:14   was like, you know, reading stuff and texting with some people and, um, it, but it was really weird

00:34:20   not to be writing, not to be blogging about those and then not to be, you know, preparing

00:34:25   for connected and MPU talking about those new Macs. Um, but, uh, so yeah, it really was like,

00:34:31   the only work I did was enough that we could pay people at relay, like just kind of the,

00:34:35   the bare minimum of bookkeeping and now catching up on a bunch of stuff administrative. Well,

00:34:40   there was that one day where your website broke and both websites broke relay broke one day and

00:34:46   then five pixels broke. So I had had to deal with that. That was pretty early on that relays really

00:34:51   broke. I tried so hard to fix it. I was bouncing dynos left, right and center and I could not,

00:34:56   could not bring the website back to life. Yeah. It was outside of my capability. One thing not

00:35:01   on the list is that I bought a new iPad mini. Huh? And it's great. Okay. Why is it not on the list?

00:35:08   I don't know. I just realized it wasn't. Uh, I'm going to, why did you do that? I'm going to write

00:35:13   down for history. Hang on. I'm finding a pen. Yeah, please do. Cause if the list isn't accurate.

00:35:19   Now I don't think I can trust the list. The old iPad mini parentheses, a 17 pro.

00:35:28   So I, I used the iPad mini six for a long time and then one of the kids iPads needed replacing.

00:35:35   And so the mini became a kid iPad and I bought a refurbished iPad pro. I don't even know what

00:35:39   generation, like just whatever they're all the same to a degree. Um, but back on the mini and

00:35:45   I got to say the size is really good. I really liked the size for just a little tablet for

00:35:50   reading and watching YouTube. I don't work on the iPad. I've just decided like, is this your only

00:35:56   iPad? It is only iPad. There was a while where I was trying to use the iPad for like some, uh,

00:36:05   non work meetings and some other stuff that I do, but I just got frustrated. Like, Oh,

00:36:10   I need like three PDFs open in this meeting to like check on things and like bouncing around.

00:36:15   It's like, I thought of us just doesn't work the way I want it to. And so, um, so the minis,

00:36:20   like it is, I set it up as like, I made it as a TV and reading like RSS articles,

00:36:26   you know, that sort of thing. And it's, it's great. Very happy with them.

00:36:30   So, uh, good sabbatical. I feel rested. I feel excited to be back. And, uh, you know,

00:36:38   I've said this before and I'll say it again, like, thank you all for helping make it possible.

00:36:41   I know both of you had more work to do because I was gone and that means a lot to me.

00:36:45   It was, it was easy to do to allow you to do that. You know what I mean? Like the amount of work that

00:36:55   it was, was nothing compared to being able to give you that time. So I appreciate that. And,

00:37:00   you know, we've been doing this a long time and relays and the show is like, you know,

00:37:05   we know what we're doing and we can, we can do this sort of thing. And, you know,

00:37:09   Mike, you and I haven't talked about it yet, but like, I think you should do one at some point in

00:37:13   the future. Um, and I would like us to like talk about, you know, like, is this something that we

00:37:18   each get to do every, you know, number of years? Cause I think it's really useful. And what I found,

00:37:24   you know, and kind of reflecting on it the last couple of days being back at work

00:37:27   is that the, the part of me that feels the most rested is like the creative part. Like the,

00:37:34   the admin stuff is fine and maybe it's cause I was still doing some of it,

00:37:38   but the admin work isn't, what's hard, right? What's hard is like talking about what we're

00:37:41   going to do on the shows and the writing and, you know, working on ideas and stuff for the apps,

00:37:48   like that creative work is what's draining. And that part of me is like the most excited to be

00:37:55   back and feel energized. And so it was great. And I think, you know, what we do is creative and,

00:38:00   and stepping away from that sometimes, uh, professionally is, is good. And it's obviously

00:38:05   a huge privilege that, you know, we get to do this for a living and take a break from it for a living.

00:38:11   So, uh, thumbs up all around. Uh, I would like to give a special thanks to, uh, editor of this

00:38:18   podcast, Jim Metzendorf, because if we didn't have Jim, this month would have sucked from me.

00:38:23   Yeah. Thank you, Jim. Because the fact that I still, all I had to do was just post the show

00:38:29   when Jim was done with it made this very simple where if I would have been editing the show

00:38:34   every week, that would have been much harder. So thank you to Jim. Yeah. For, for making,

00:38:38   being an important part of this, this show, he had its Mac power users as well. Like,

00:38:42   I don't know what would have happened with that. Um, cause David's not an editor. And so,

00:38:46   yeah, Jim is just so important to us and the team at relay. Like everyone is Kathy and Carrie

00:38:55   picked up a bunch of stuff too. Um, it was great. I will say just to wrap up this, you know,

00:39:01   missing a bunch of the Mac news, I'm pretty psyched about the new Mac mini. I don't have

00:39:05   a place for one of my life. I wish I did like, I could find one. I mean, I haven't had one Mac mini

00:39:13   I mean, it's so small. Doesn't everyone have a place? You just put it underneath something.

00:39:18   It's like a pet rock. Um, if I bought one, I'd want to put googly eyes on the front of it.

00:39:23   Cause he's just, it's just adorable. Um, and Mike, I think you've said it's going to be your next

00:39:27   computer. So I hope, I hope you, whenever you order one, I think you're going to like it. I'm

00:39:31   very excited when they're for sale next week, I will go out to the Apple store. I want to put my

00:39:36   hands on one and, and just, just experiencing it. I think it's fun when Apple revisit something

00:39:42   out for such a long time. Like that iPad design is from 2010 or sorry, the iPad gosh, the Mac mini

00:39:48   designs from 2010, like long time coming. And I think they did a great job with it.

00:39:54   This episode of connected is brought to you by smarter world.

00:39:58   If you're into podcasts that delve into how tech shapes our lives, which I think you probably are,

00:40:04   then this ad read is for you. Let's start with a couple of questions. How do you control a

00:40:09   robotic forearm with your voice? What technology allows cars to communicate in real time as they

00:40:16   drive and what's inside the smart plug that reduces home fires and saves lives. If you're

00:40:23   curious about these answers, you want to check out the smarter world podcast. The host speak to some

00:40:28   of the world's biggest brands and exciting startups, but how they're using technology

00:40:33   to change the world around us. Host Kyle Fox recently spoke to Honeywell about how smart

00:40:38   energy is changing the buildings we work in while applied EV shared how they're working to bring

00:40:44   autonomous driving vehicles to delivery fleets and commercial vehicles. And in another episode,

00:40:49   Damon motors explained how they're redefining the ride experience with their electric motorbike.

00:40:55   The podcast features guests discussing technology topics from drones to software defined vehicles

00:41:01   to smart home innovations. They explore the stories behind the tech we use every day.

00:41:06   You can listen to these conversations by searching for smarter world wherever you listen to podcast.

00:41:13   That's the smarter world podcast. Go search for it. Our thanks to smarter world for the support

00:41:19   of the show. As we record this iOS 18.2 just just today in our public beta. We got dev beta to

00:41:30   yesterday or two days ago. And I've been playing with it. I know you all spend a lot of time

00:41:36   talking about Apple intelligence when I was gone. And I said a couple of things to add. First of

00:41:42   all, I did not have Jin Moji on my phone. I was like, that's weird. I even like turned Apple

00:41:46   intelligence off in the back on. And then someone in the relay discord said, Oh, you have to have

00:41:52   stickers enabled for Jin Moji to show up, which I had stickers off of my phone. I'm not even sure

00:41:58   why. Like, I don't know. Um, cause you're a Grinch cause cause I'm cranky. And so I turned stickers

00:42:05   on and they were there immediately. And like, I'm not, this is, I'm not the first person to say this,

00:42:10   but the Jin Moji designs like the way it works and looks so much better than image playgrounds,

00:42:18   just night and day. Yep. Yep. It's a good, it's actually a good system. Although you can make some

00:42:24   like horrors. Right. Uh, but usually what I've found is like, it just takes a little tweaking

00:42:30   of like what you're, you're asking it for. Um, but I think it is, it is better than image playgrounds

00:42:37   in my opinion, but yeah, I've found more fun in, in, in, uh, Jim Oji. Yeah. The, uh, the,

00:42:45   all of that stuff though, man, it like, if you're like playing with it, it, your phone gets warm,

00:42:50   it hits your battery. Like these things are working hard and yeah, it, that indicates to

00:42:55   me that this stuff is all happening on device or at least a lot of it is, I'm not sure how much,

00:43:00   if anything yet is going to the secure cloud thing. Apple is built private cloud, private cloud

00:43:08   compute. Um, I don't think the imagery is at all. I don't think it is. I don't, I don't, I don't,

00:43:14   I think, I don't think that is, um, let's see, let me put my phone in airplane mode and see what it

00:43:18   does. Let's see. I mean, you can, you know, it's happening on device because your phone is like,

00:43:23   uncom gets uncomfortably hot, especially in a case that I get, that's like, Oh, this is getting,

00:43:28   this is not good. Uh, image playground. Let's say I'm going to make a picture of an airplane

00:43:34   with spaghetti. Well, that's nice. Spaghetti. Yeah, it's doing it. So this must be,

00:43:42   Oh man. Yeah. I'm gonna, I mean, I do think like, I'm gonna get to some feedback in a minute.

00:43:53   Uh, but I think one of, one of the reasons that these images are the way that they are in like

00:43:57   from like a quality perspective is because they're happening on device. I think that's maybe why,

00:44:02   one of the reasons I think there are many reasons, but I think one of the reasons they're maybe

00:44:06   not that high quality is because they are, um, they are doing them on device. I think that's

00:44:12   one of the things that's happening, you know? Yeah. They, they really, I mean,

00:44:17   it's no different than Dolly or any of the others, except that Apple fills behind those other models,

00:44:25   but they do all the same weird things. Like if there's text and it tries really hard not to

00:44:28   put text in things, but the text looks bad. Like it's not words. It's not even letters.

00:44:34   No, it's just, it's just like nonsense. Yeah. And it definitely has terms that it won't use.

00:44:42   Federica, you talked about this, how you were able to, and I saw those images made some things that

00:44:46   it shouldn't. Um, but I think some of those words got changed, got, got removed Federica, you know?

00:44:52   Oh, that's good to hear. Yeah, that is good to hear. Um, yeah. All in all, like not really

00:44:58   impressed with image playgrounds. It's fun to use for the memes or whatever, but you know,

00:45:04   this is not something that's going to like change the way that I work in any capacity.

00:45:08   Well, I asked for the passionate ones to write in, right? Uh, I made a plea and I was like,

00:45:15   if you disagree with me and you have a use for this software, I want to know what it is.

00:45:21   And we had some people write in, would you like to hear what they had to say? Please.

00:45:24   Jim wrote in and said, I've used Dali to create images for my role-playing sessions.

00:45:30   Being able to use people's faces would be cool for personal versions of that.

00:45:35   Makes sense, right? Like you're playing like a, uh, an RPG game of a bunch of friends and you

00:45:40   want to create an elf character and you want it to be me as an elf. Like, sure. I can see it, right?

00:45:45   I can see it. Uh, other ideas says Jim themed birthday invitations where the child looks like

00:45:51   a knight or an astronaut. Costume party invitations where the hosts are dressed in their costumes,

00:45:56   even before they get them ready. Family calendar with fun images on birthdays.

00:46:00   Okay. The family calendar one I really struggle with, like just use images of your family. I feel

00:46:06   I'm not saying anyone's wrong, but like people will just, you know, this is what people suggest.

00:46:11   My initial take on that is like, I wouldn't, but I understand that you might want to.

00:46:17   Sean says I'm a coach for a junior high cross country team. If image playgrounds could create

00:46:23   accurate and fun images of the athletes, I could see myself using it for social media posts.

00:46:27   I also make posters on occasion to cheer on athletes and can see fun or cartoony images

00:46:32   being useful for that as well. We'll come back to these. I think if I read them on,

00:46:37   I think I have like an overall thought on some of this stuff. Tom says I'm using image playgrounds

00:46:41   and I like it. It's not going to change my life, but I enjoy being able to create photos of my

00:46:45   family in certain situations. I haven't used other AI image generators for this type of thing.

00:46:49   An anonymous user says I use Photoshop a lot to make birthday cards for my family and can't

00:46:55   wait to use the image playground to create versions of my three and six year old and my

00:47:00   partner in some funny scenarios. John says I will 100% use it for as Mike puts it griefing my

00:47:06   friends, which is the only use I've found so far. It's just griefing my friends. That's my own

00:47:12   commentary. And Dwayne says this integrated tool is perfect for generating fun images to feature

00:47:16   on a digital newsletter aimed at young mentees, including graphics that may showcase caricatures

00:47:21   of our mentors. We appreciate any design features that enhance engagement with Gen Alpha.

00:47:26   Dwayne goes on to talk about image wand a little bit. Just like similarly, I've used image wand.

00:47:34   I was really surprised about how that feature actually works. Have you ever used image wand?

00:47:39   Yeah, no, never. So this is where you draw something and then you make a circle around it.

00:47:46   Then it asks you to describe what you're looking for. So like, I don't really know

00:47:51   what the point of the sketch is. I guess I can draw Mike. You can draw and it can, it can,

00:47:59   I think what it's, what it's doing is it's like you're giving it another data point, right? So

00:48:04   like if you want a house, maybe you want the house to specifically look like this, but I just,

00:48:11   you know, I'm like, well, how do you do it? You draw something and draw something. And then in

00:48:15   the Apple pencil tools, there's like something that looks like a magic wand in the tools. It's

00:48:22   like a kind of Apple intelligence, he colored wand thing in the, uh, the, the pencil kit tools

00:48:30   you draw around you draw a circle around the thing that you have drawn. And then it will pop up the

00:48:35   image playgrounds UI to be like, give me some more information about this. And you type in what you're

00:48:39   looking for. And then it should take what you've drawn and turn it into something else for all of

00:48:45   these things, which I'm very happy that people have written in because it's like, I kind of feel

00:48:48   like I understand a little bit more of the types of things that people might want to use this stuff

00:48:52   for. I think maybe one of the places where these things are hard for me to get my head around is

00:48:56   like, so in the UK, we have a company that makes greeting cards called Moon Pig. And their whole

00:49:02   thing is like, they have an app and you can order cards and they print the cards and send them to

00:49:07   people. Right. And most Moon Pig cards, I think have the ability to add the photo with the person

00:49:13   you're sending it to in it in some way. So you, you upload a photo and it can be like a little

00:49:18   personalized thing, or maybe it's a funny thing. Like you put their head on, I don't know, John

00:49:22   Cena's body or something, but I never ever once have put a photo on one of these cards. I

00:49:30   specifically choose the cards about photos on. I would never want to do that. Like to take a

00:49:35   picture of somebody and put it on a card and send it to them. Like for me, I don't understand that.

00:49:40   And so like, maybe that's why I have such an aversion to this is like, for whatever reason,

00:49:45   just for me, I would never imagine taking a photo or a likeness of somebody and like sending it to

00:49:53   them, honestly, like for whatever reason that doesn't click with me. And so like, I'm reading

00:50:00   these and I'm like, okay, I still have an issue with the consent of these images. Like people

00:50:06   are having images created of them. Do they, you know, do they want you to do that? I don't know,

00:50:12   but I can see that people would want to use it. I just see that this isn't for me. But again,

00:50:18   as I said before, I think my biggest issue of it is I just don't think the images are good enough.

00:50:23   Yeah. Steven, do you have any thoughts on this? I mean, I get those use cases and I think

00:50:30   in those use cases, someone was not going to go hire somebody to like make those images. And so

00:50:37   I can, I can understand that, but I agree with you. Like they're just not, the images aren't good.

00:50:43   And they're definitely not something that I would want to put out like in a serious context or like

00:50:50   Apple's demos, like, Oh, like you have this, this presentation and like you make a picture of a

00:50:54   gazebo and stick it in, like, go look at that airplane picture. I put it in the show notes,

00:50:58   like, just go look at it. Like, this is not something I would want to have in any sort

00:51:04   of context beyond pranking somebody or, you know, joking with somebody. And so I don't know. I don't

00:51:12   think it's that useful for me. And if you've got places in your life where it makes sense, like,

00:51:20   Hey, I guess that's fine, but the quality is just not, it's not great. I just, um,

00:51:29   paste it into discord, uh, the result of my artistic creation. As you can see, I drew a sketch

00:51:37   of a very incredible sketch of what I described as a really long dog. And, uh, it was later turned

00:51:48   into a, uh, long dog. Count how many legs that dog count, how many legs that dog has.

00:51:56   They ruined it. See the, the overall quality of that image is good. Is that like the illustration

00:52:00   one, which I never really have used. I think the illustration style was a significant,

00:52:04   there is a significant issue there. Isn't that? Yeah. Yeah. It's like the, the highest horse I

00:52:09   made on social media the other day is like, it's got an extra leg. It's like, what are we doing?

00:52:13   Yeah. Do you prefer my original sketch or the final illustration?

00:52:17   I have a sketch Federico that you made of me sitting at a Macintosh that I treasure. And so

00:52:23   sketch is pretty good. I've got to say Federico in this situation, I think I'm like the final one,

00:52:29   even, even with the five legs. Sorry. I don't really think that the original sketch is giving

00:52:36   me what I want. Look at that dog. Look at the tail, man. Come on. How can you not like it?

00:52:44   How can you not like it? I don't need AI. I can use my long dog, you know, really long dog. So

00:52:52   long dog, uh, at least mine has four legs. This episode of connected is made possible by Express

00:53:00   VPN. The more big companies know about their potential customers, the more targeted they can

00:53:06   be with their marketing. Thankfully, there is a way to keep your browsing history private

00:53:11   through Express VPN. One of the easiest ways for data brokers to track you is through your

00:53:16   device's unique IP address, which also reveals information about your location with Express VPN,

00:53:22   your IP address is hidden. That makes it much more difficult for data brokers to monitor, track,

00:53:27   and monetize your private online activity. And there are loads of other reasons to choose Express

00:53:33   VPN over others. It encrypts a 100% of your network traffic to keep your data safe from

00:53:39   hackers. When you're in public wifi, plus it works on all your devices, phone, laptop, tablet,

00:53:44   you name it. Just tap one button to turn it on and you're protected. My favorite reason is that

00:53:50   it's really fast. Other VPNs can slow down your traffic and Express VPN is nice and speedy.

00:53:55   Right now, you can take advantage of Express VPNs, Black Friday, Cyber Monday offer to get

00:54:02   the absolute best VPN deal you'll find all year. Go to expressvpn.com/connected to get an extra

00:54:11   four months with the 12 month plan or six extra months with the two year plan, totally free.

00:54:18   That's expressvpn.com/connected to get an extra four or six months of Express VPN for free.

00:54:26   Our thanks to Express VPN for the support of the show and all of Relay.

00:54:31   So it seems like according to Mark Gurman at Bloomberg, that Apple has officially started

00:54:39   exploring the idea of making smart glasses with this internal project named Atlas.

00:54:47   It seems like and this is interesting because I remember conflicting reports from Gurman.

00:54:55   I was under the impression that Apple already had an internal team dedicated to exploring the idea

00:55:02   of making smart glasses, like not augmented reality glasses, but something more akin to

00:55:07   the meta Ray-Ban glasses, which are regular glasses that have a camera or maybe speakers

00:55:12   built into them. But now it seems like the project has gotten off the ground with this internal

00:55:18   focus group where Apple is basically gathering feedback from employees about the idea of

00:55:26   entering this new category and making these smart glasses as a companion to the iPhone,

00:55:34   as a potential competitor to the meta Ray-Ban glasses.

00:55:38   Obviously, I have many thoughts on this topic. I just want to say upfront that I find it kind

00:55:44   of strange and maybe this is how Apple operates. This idea of like doing focus groups with employees.

00:55:51   So like, I don't understand what step of the process this is.

00:55:56   I mean, the way that Mark Gurman describes it is it's like the beginning.

00:56:02   So like this product has not been decided.

00:56:05   No. So what you're remembering is a report from ages ago where this was a thing that Apple

00:56:14   considered and moved away from. Like nothing was done with it. Like that in their many

00:56:19   considerations for what their AR product would look like, something that was basically the

00:56:25   meta Ray-Bans was something that they considered doing and decided not to bother with. So this is

00:56:31   very first steps of the process. This is like, hey, do we want to do this? Let's talk to our

00:56:37   employees and see what they think. Like that is basically as far as they seem to be. If this

00:56:42   report is to be believed. Interesting. I didn't know that they were going to their employees to

00:56:48   because like, I don't know, was the original iPhone decided with Apple employees?

00:56:54   Like did they do a focus group to say, should we do an iPhone guys?

00:56:58   Right. But this focus group though could be of like 12 people who are all in, like,

00:57:02   of course, like what do you, you know, it's like the way this is, this is not a poll on

00:57:07   Slack being like vote yes or no. Do you want us to make glasses?

00:57:10   My expectation is like, this has been described in the way that it's been described, right? But

00:57:18   I would assume that this takes different shapes depending on what they're doing. But this is

00:57:23   essentially a meeting, even could be this, right? You get like 12 people from their hardware

00:57:30   engineering group in a room and it's like, all right, gang, what do we think about this?

00:57:34   Right. That's why I found the reporting sort of strange because it really painted a picture

00:57:39   of Apple writing a memo and circulating a memo internally being like, hey, do you think we should

00:57:45   make glasses? Like, can you help us out here? And what you're saying makes more sense. Like maybe

00:57:53   it was like a really small focus group. It could be anywhere in between those things,

00:57:57   right? I think like, depending on the product probably depends on how big those conversations

00:58:04   are, you know, this might have been with a hundred people or something like that.

00:58:08   Right. Right. Regardless. I have a lot of thoughts, especially because I've been using for

00:58:15   the past three, four months at this point. I mean, we're in November. Yeah. Almost five months.

00:58:22   No, I was using them in May. Gosh, six months at this point. I've been using for half a year

00:58:29   the Meta Ray-Ban glasses as my everyday glasses. And this continued to be for me truly a resounding

00:58:38   success for my personal usage, as well as for sort of my in real life social, you know, situation

00:58:50   with people around me. Everybody, literally everybody I've spoken to about this, everybody

00:58:58   knows them. They've heard of them. They have seen them in a store. They have seen them on social

00:59:05   media. They have heard about them. They are familiar with what they are. And the fun thing is

00:59:09   although everybody knows the product, nobody. And I mean, it must have happened with 10 different

00:59:17   people so far. So it's not a small group of people. Nobody has noticed them upfront.

00:59:23   When they and the conversation has always gone with, oh, Tichi, you're like, you're super into

00:59:33   tech. Have you heard of the Ray-Bans with the cameras? And I'm like, I'm wearing them now.

00:59:39   And they go like, oh, are those the thing? Like, no, everybody knows them, but nobody has noticed

00:59:46   them upfront. And that's the benefit of it being Ray-Ban, right? Where like, if META would have

00:59:50   designed their own glasses, this wouldn't be the case. People would know what they would look like,

00:59:54   like Snapchat spectacles, right? Like this was the genius in actually using the Wayfarer design.

01:00:01   I've been really liking them. And one of my goals for later this year, I've been working on this

01:00:08   iPad story. And after the iPad story that I finished writing today, finally, I want to move

01:00:14   on to this meta Ray-Ban story. But we mentioned this before, I've been using them as glasses,

01:00:21   but also as like a really quick camera for short videos or quick photos, as well as my speakers.

01:00:26   When I'm doing chores around the house, when I'm walking the dogs, listening to podcasts,

01:00:30   like it's been my go-to accessory for life. And it's really, I see the thing is, I don't even

01:00:35   think about these as an accessory. It's just they're my glasses. Obviously, an Apple version

01:00:41   of this, that I would, to say that I would welcome an Apple version of this would be an understatement.

01:00:48   But I imagine what an Apple version of these glasses could do, like in terms of better gestures,

01:00:57   for example. This is something that I struggle with sometimes with the Ray-Bans, that sometimes

01:01:02   they don't recognize the gesture for pausing them, you know, toggling, play and pause, for example.

01:01:09   And I need to tap on the sidearm of the glasses like multiple times. And occasionally it happens.

01:01:14   Apple, I think, as you know, over the past decades, they have really nailed gesture recognition

01:01:23   across multiple devices and form factors. I would imagine that an Apple version of these glasses

01:01:29   would have always on low power sync, like background sync with my iPhone, instead of

01:01:36   having to rely on a separate app, just like my Apple Watch is always in sync with the iPhone.

01:01:42   It just happens in the background. I don't have to worry about syncing my phone to the

01:01:48   watch and vice versa. It just happens. With the Meta Ray-Bans, you need to install the Meta View

01:01:55   app. And it does some background sync at night when you're charging the glasses. But it may fail.

01:02:02   And during the day, if you want to import a photo, it's a manual process. I would imagine that an

01:02:07   Apple version may just, you know, you take a photo with your glasses, you find it immediately

01:02:11   in the Photos app. And speaking of cameras, obviously, you know, I would imagine an Apple

01:02:17   version would have a much better camera, much better picture quality and integration with

01:02:22   Apple intelligence, because you've got to think about Apple intelligence when thinking about this

01:02:25   new category. They would be a natural fit for what they're doing with visual intelligence.

01:02:32   And just the idea of, you know, advice that can be Siri with literally eyes, I think is really

01:02:41   compelling. If I were Apple, that's what I would consider, you know, what can we do in terms of,

01:02:45   like, something that people wear and they can potentially wear all the time, just like AirPods.

01:02:51   But unlike AirPods, we now have cameras that we can use and we can, you know, we can capture

01:02:57   what the user is looking at. I think that's really fascinating. And obviously, I think,

01:03:03   you know, the Siri integration and the Apple intelligence integration is a given.

01:03:07   But also, I think in a way, glasses made from Apple would reinforce the idea that

01:03:15   you're still going to depend on your phone. And, you know, because glasses, like,

01:03:18   at this point, we're not kidding around anymore. These are, these need to be cool looking. They

01:03:24   need to be lightweight. They need to be something that people can wear without thinking about them.

01:03:28   And so realistically, in the near future, you want to hand off as much as possible of the processing

01:03:34   to the phone. And that, in turn, reinforces the role and the importance of the iPhone,

01:03:40   just like with the Apple Watch and just like with AirPods. Yes, the Apple Watch has some degree of

01:03:45   independence now, but really, you just want to use it with an iPhone. And I think the glasses

01:03:50   may just do the same thing. If Apple were to make this, like, or maybe a better way to say this is,

01:03:56   like, what are the things that you feel like you're missing from the meta Ray-Bans functionality wise?

01:04:06   That if it was like connected to either your iPhone, which it will be connected to your iPhone,

01:04:12   but it's connected to your iPhone, connected to your Apple stuff, like, what are the features

01:04:15   that you think you would conceivably get that you otherwise don't get? Sure. Obviously, better

01:04:24   integration with the camera and the Photos app on the phone instead of having to like this idea of

01:04:28   like syncing, you know, between the Meta View app and the Photos app. No, just take a photo and you

01:04:33   find it in the Photos app. FaceTime integration, I think having, you know, first person perspective

01:04:40   FaceTime calls because I've done them with WhatsApp and they are incredibly cool.

01:04:45   Just that sort of FaceTime experience would be neat. I also think I would very much welcome

01:04:51   better, like, the thing that I'm missing most is better Siri audio and voice quality. When I use

01:04:58   Siri on the glasses, it's kind of reminiscent of using Siri in non-carplay cars that have

01:05:06   regular Bluetooth. Like you get that degraded voice quality and it's not like when you're

01:05:13   speaking and listening to Siri while wearing AirPods, right? When using AirPods, you're getting

01:05:18   the like full-on, full-quality Siri experience. Here, there's a bit of a delay because it's Bluetooth

01:05:25   and Siri's voice doesn't sound as clean and polished and so a natural Siri integration,

01:05:32   especially now with Apple intelligence, that's what I would like to see in the Apple version for sure.

01:05:38   - Right, yeah. Yeah, it would be nice. I don't know about this though. Like,

01:05:46   I would like them to do this, but like, if they're just starting, that's many years away, right?

01:05:56   - Yeah.

01:05:57   - From now. Like, if they're just starting this, that is quite a way away and I don't,

01:06:06   I'm not sure where is this gonna be in multiple years? Like, yeah, I don't know.

01:06:13   I'm really not sure about this.

01:06:14   - It's just also strange to see this report. I mean, Google reporting on this days after this

01:06:24   was like talked about internally is just wild and to see, like, we don't see this. We don't see

01:06:32   Apple's internal initial response to what a competitor is doing all that often. So this is

01:06:37   kind of a unique thing. And then when it's something that they were rumored to be looking

01:06:44   at in the past and they shelved for whatever reason, and like, we got the Vision Pro instead

01:06:49   or until, it's all just very strange. And I think we talked about this after Orion was shown off,

01:06:56   like something like this is much closer to the future than Vision Pro, which is, you know,

01:07:01   effectively like ski goggles and pass through and Apple clearly thinks you got to do this to get to

01:07:06   that. But it is, it's just very strange. The whole story, just like the more I think about it,

01:07:12   it's just very odd that we are even having this conversation this early on.

01:07:15   - Well, I, you know what you're saying about getting, doing this to get to that. I think what

01:07:21   Manta might've shown is you actually have to do both to get to that.

01:07:23   - Maybe.

01:07:24   - Right. That like it has required them making the quest and the Brabands to get them to a place

01:07:35   where they could make Orion. And that maybe you do need to come at this from both sides

01:07:41   to get to that middle perfect product in 15 years time from now or whatever. Cause I can think that

01:07:47   is the kind of timeline we're on to where you could conceivably get what we have in these

01:07:52   technologies today in something so small, you know, like if you like, for example, you know,

01:07:58   like I was imagining, you know, Federica said about FaceTime, like what would it take to get

01:08:03   a persona in a FaceTime call from regular glasses. And I think that that is like a 15 year,

01:08:15   something, you know, when it has a long time to get the technology good enough to do that. But I

01:08:21   do think it's doable. But I do think that there is something to be said for doing both sides of this

01:08:29   and because I think it does both things. I think it builds the company's technological prowess in

01:08:37   both areas and also builds the customer. Like Apple would sell a lot of a smart glasses product if it

01:08:45   was done well. It is weird that they have not started this project before now in earnest because

01:08:52   like surely the AirPods are the suggestion and the Apple watch are the suggestion that you

01:08:58   would find success in this. Yes. Right. Those are products which they're not a million miles away

01:09:07   from what this thing is. Like it's just the wearable that does some things that your connected

01:09:13   device can already do. Right. Like but does them slightly differently. Like I can listen to audio

01:09:19   out the speaker of my iPhone and annoy everyone around me, but I can do that. But AirPods are

01:09:23   better for that. You know, like I can look at my notifications on my iPhone screen, but my Apple

01:09:28   watch is more convenient for that at times. Like a glasses product like this to be able to take

01:09:33   photos that won't be as good, but it will be more convenient to be able to take calls. You know,

01:09:36   like it is really a kind of the one of the products that could orbit around the iPhone.

01:09:44   It's intriguing if they are only like as of a week ago thinking that this is a project that

01:09:50   they should pursue in earnest. And I would genuinely wonder about this. I'm like full

01:09:56   off into theory town now. If like the general disdain that they have for meta has clouded them

01:10:03   into thinking if this is a product they should do. That they're like, oh no, that's them.

01:10:07   Like we don't do what they do. And I would wonder if that kind of thinking could have gotten in the

01:10:16   way for them. Or maybe thinking that like, oh, that's meta. People won't want to buy a product

01:10:22   from them. So we don't need to worry about that. But like I don't think that's the case. So I don't

01:10:27   know. But like it is weird to me that if this is, if Goldman's reporting is correct, that they

01:10:34   only have just started this, I would find that to be curious because it does seem like a logical

01:10:42   step, but maybe it's in logical in hindsight. I don't know.

01:10:45   Check back in a decade is what we're saying. Oh boy.

01:10:52   I don't know. I don't know. Like I don't know how long it would take them to produce a product like

01:10:56   this. I think it would be complicated. I think Apple could do it faster than meta

01:11:05   with their hardware expertise. Yeah, but can they make it look good?

01:11:10   Yeah, I don't know. Right? Like I think Manta was able to produce the product that they were able

01:11:16   to produce at the time that they could because of the partnership with the Luxottica, I think is the

01:11:22   brand. Right? And to be fair, Orion, like, yeah, the meta stuff, meta Ray-Bans are real, but Orion,

01:11:29   not a product, right? It's on its way to a product. And so, yeah, but we're talking,

01:11:35   and this project is not that. This project is, it's just Ray-Bans, right? It's just that, right?

01:11:42   Apple was working on, they definitely are working on AR glasses, right? But that is not this.

01:11:51   That's a different thing that is many years away. But like, I mean, I don't know.

01:11:58   It's a hard thing to produce a product that people want to put on their faces.

01:12:05   And obviously Ray-Ban has had a long history of working that out.

01:12:11   Apple has made something people want to put on their faces.

01:12:18   Sorry, Vision Pro, but it's, I mean, it's the best looking VR headset, but that's, you know,

01:12:23   you know, it's not necessarily a high bar or bar that's worth crossing. So yeah, I don't know.

01:12:31   I think that that is, that's what that is. That for me, that's the biggest risk factor is will

01:12:36   they be able to produce something that people actually want to wear because the anonymity

01:12:40   factor that you're getting Federico would not work here. I don't think because people would know

01:12:47   it's the Apple one. Yeah, yeah. Because it's not going to look like something else. Yeah,

01:12:54   I think you're right. I don't know. I'm a little concerned, like you say, that this project just

01:13:03   started and maybe it was, I'm curious to see if like three years from now, five years from now,

01:13:08   this will turn out to be a bigger miscalculation on Apple's part than we, than what we're thinking

01:13:16   today. You know, like, I don't know. I just feel like it'll be interesting to see if going down

01:13:25   the path of a really expensive headset instead of starting a little more humble and a little smaller

01:13:33   and being like, but most people really want glasses now. And maybe there's, there's value to be had in,

01:13:41   you know, making glasses that don't cost a fortune and can help our AI features with cameras and

01:13:49   microphones and speakers. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, it's, the thing is, it's not like

01:13:55   I bought these glasses because I'm a meta super fan or anything. You know, I just think they look

01:14:03   cool and it's, and I don't even think I'm that locked into the meta ecosystem. I'm not using any

01:14:09   AI features with these glasses, but other people are. And I don't know. I just feel like I'm,

01:14:17   I think it's surprising that a company like Apple didn't see the success of this product coming

01:14:25   and we're here in late 2024 and they just started a focus group about it. I don't know. Very strange.

01:14:32   Well, I think that does it for this week. If you want to find links to the stories you spoke about,

01:14:39   check out your podcast player or the website relay.fm/connected/526. There you can get

01:14:46   Connected Pro, which is a longer ad-free version of the show. We do each and every week. This week

01:14:53   we talked about my move to fiber, finally. Finally available at my address and super excited to have

01:14:59   it. So go check that out. You can find us online. You can find Federico's work at macstories.net

01:15:05   and he is on Macedon and threads as Vatici. You can find Mike across a bunch of other shows here

01:15:12   on relay and his work, of course, over at Cortex brand. You can find him as iMike online. You can

01:15:19   find me as ismh86 and I co-host Mac power users here on relay each and every Sunday and right

01:15:25   over at 512 pixels.net. I thank our sponsors this week, NetSuite, Smarter World and Express VPN.

01:15:33   And until next time guys, say goodbye. I'll be there to cheer you up. Bye y'all.