00:00:15 ◼ ► I am the Ricky Benchman, Mike Hurley, and I have the pleasure of introducing to you all Federico Vittucci.
00:00:27 ◼ ► Yeah, yeah. And in this very special occasion, after four weeks away, spent in the wilderness,
00:00:37 ◼ ► spent apparently becoming a gamer and doing many other things, including running cables and wires and installing things and fishing and whatnot.
00:01:33 ◼ ► The others I was kind of in and out of and I just this morning, I really declared bankruptcy and overcast, but I wanted to hear y'all and thank you.
00:02:34 ◼ ► You would not know that because the date is not part of the introduction of the podcast for some reason.
00:02:42 ◼ ► and I know that many of you, including myself, are not happy with how things turned out.
00:03:04 ◼ ► I was in bed and my wife had already gone to sleep, but I was like, I woke up and my phone was still in my hand, which is not a good feeling.
00:03:34 ◼ ► Like, I don't necessarily feel like people are more equipped to know what the next four years are going to bring,
00:03:48 ◼ ► And like, one of the things that I've been struck by in reminiscing, if you'd call it that on that period of time,
00:03:56 ◼ ► is it's not just the things that are happening, but just how much you're going to hear about it.
00:04:03 ◼ ► Like that was, I think, one of the defining things of the first Trump presidency is the media reaction to it.
00:04:18 ◼ ► and they had a journalist from The Guardian who was on their live stream, and she was like, as a journalist,
00:04:32 ◼ ► Like, it was good for the journalism industry last time, and it will be again this time.
00:04:42 ◼ ► But anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole now, and I'm going to reject immediately out of and just say,
00:04:46 ◼ ► I think we will continue to do over this period of time, the thing that we are actually best to do,
00:05:16 ◼ ► There are people who are struggling and who will struggle for years to come because of this.
00:05:26 ◼ ► Yeah, I just wanted to say that I feel like we are almost obligated to keep doing what we do and,
00:05:44 ◼ ► Obviously, the thought that we, the three of us, we can do this without fearing for any other consequences,
00:05:55 ◼ ► because, like, let's I mean, let's face it, especially Mike and I, like, you know, it's not like we have other thoughts or really any.
00:06:06 ◼ ► I guess what I'm saying is that we're lucky and we're privileged and we are in a position to be able to say,
00:06:15 ◼ ► And we find comfort in the idea that we have listeners and readers who can find some escapism in what we do.
00:06:30 ◼ ► we are fully aware of the fact that this is a privileged spot that we're in and that and that if other people,
00:06:40 ◼ ► if certain listeners or readers, they cannot possibly have the energy or the time to listen to us anymore and to,
00:06:57 ◼ ► But I would say similarly, I agree with what you're saying, but I encourage people to try and find these things in their lives.
00:07:34 ◼ ► We can keep I can keep writing Max stories. Steven can keep, you know, finding weird Apple support documents.
00:07:40 ◼ ► That's what we do. We're going to support, you know, we're going to I think now more than ever support each other,
00:07:53 ◼ ► I am not personally. Lots of others like us are not. But that doesn't change the fact that you have you can have your community.
00:08:07 ◼ ► you can find your small corners of brightness if you go looking for for them, you know.
00:08:32 ◼ ► Like the thing is none of us and most likely none of our listeners were not in charge of anything.
00:08:56 ◼ ► Nobody, nobody, even our listeners, you know, even our listeners, if there's people who sits on the
00:09:36 ◼ ► Several people wrote in about Tim Cook's multiple Mac situation, and I sort of merged several
00:09:46 ◼ ► pieces of feedback into this, but the gist of it is that multiple Macs is completely normal for a
00:09:54 ◼ ► lot of people who work at Apple. You typically have one Mac reading, like using like the nightly
00:10:00 ◼ ► builds of Mac OS or whatever product you work on. And then you've got the one where you do your
00:10:08 ◼ ► One person wrote in to say the laptop you carry around to meetings is probably not the laptop you
00:10:13 ◼ ► want to be crashing and kernel panicking every five minutes unless that meeting needs you to
00:10:18 ◼ ► demonstrate the crash, which is kind of funny to me. So I don't know what Tim Cook's nightly
00:10:25 ◼ ► software situation is. Mike, when you interview him about his workflows, please ask about the
00:10:30 ◼ ► state of the betas on Tim Cook's devices. But I thought it was an interesting insight and one that
00:10:35 ◼ ► even though I do this and I know y'all have done it in the past, and a lot of us who cover this
00:10:40 ◼ ► stuff will have, you know, like I've got an M1 MacBook Air that in the summer runs the betas,
00:10:49 ◼ ► but apparently that's quite common at Apple. I will say though, yeah, but remember it wasn't
00:10:56 ◼ ► just two laptops. He was using three Macs. He was using three Macs. So, you know, I just thought
00:11:04 ◼ ► that was the thing. It's like, oh, he just used all of them. He just uses so many. To be fair,
00:11:09 ◼ ► it was like a full on Apple store worth of setup. Yeah, sure. You know, so I, you know, missed the
00:11:18 ◼ ► conversation about that interview, but the thing that jumped out at me the most was like, he has
00:11:24 ◼ ► a favorite soft drink and they don't have it at Apple Park. Oh yeah. Mountain Dew, right? Was it
00:11:28 ◼ ► down Mountain Dew? Is he just stopping by 7-Eleven every morning and picking the one up? Also,
00:11:35 ◼ ► I mean, Tim Cook's in good shape, so I guess he can like have a soda every day. Like, I'm not
00:11:39 ◼ ► judging, but it's also striking to me as odd that he has a favorite soda. I feel like he would be a
00:11:44 ◼ ► water-only kind of guy. Interesting. Everyone's got a vice and this is Tim Cook's, like this is him,
00:11:51 ◼ ► like this is his vice, right? He doesn't smoke. He doesn't drink. Diet Mountain Dew every afternoon.
00:11:56 ◼ ► So I did get word from someone, did a little bit of on the ground research. There are no Pepsi
00:12:01 ◼ ► products at Apple Park, is what I was told. Okay, so they got a contact with Coke, I guess maybe.
00:12:13 ◼ ► you just call Pepsi. Maybe it's like, maybe there's like a Gil Amelio thing. Was it Amelio came from
00:12:19 ◼ ► Pepsi? Maybe there's like a... That was John Sculley. Oh, John Sculley, that's it. Maybe
00:12:24 ◼ ► there's like, you know... Anti-Pepsi. There's like a No Pepsi now after that. Fascinating,
00:12:35 ◼ ► which is excellent. I went to the first University of Memphis home game on Monday night
00:12:38 ◼ ► and our basketball arena... Can I try and guess the name of the team? Because I think I know it.
00:12:45 ◼ ► Yeah. Is it the Grizzlies? That's the NBA team. That's the professional team. The college team
00:12:52 ◼ ► is the Tigers. They're very good, very good. Why are two different animals? These are two
00:12:57 ◼ ► different teams. They're two different teams. Well, but they should have been like, I don't know,
00:13:00 ◼ ► the Cubs and the Grizzlies. Yeah, well, they're the Grizzlies. They should have been like that.
00:13:04 ◼ ► They're the Grizzlies because they came from Vancouver and we don't have grizzly bears in
00:13:12 ◼ ► the basketball arena has switched from Pepsi products to Coke products, which is excellent news
00:13:23 ◼ ► and makes up for the fact that the football stadium went the other way. They were Coke and
00:13:27 ◼ ► now they're Pepsi. So like Pepsi's awful. That's what I'm saying. Wow. I think... Write me about
00:13:35 ◼ ► that feedback form, you know. I think Pepsi has the better ancillary products though to the Cola.
00:13:43 ◼ ► Because they got Mountain Dew and the others. Do they have Dr. Pepper? Dr. Pepper is independent.
00:13:48 ◼ ► Is that... Oh, interesting. I think. Who owns Dr. Pepper? I always thought that people who are like,
00:14:01 ◼ ► Because I don't truly believe it. I just want the attention Federico. Dr. Pepper is its own brand
00:14:08 ◼ ► and they also own Gatorade and Tropicana and some other stuff. Dr. Pepper is the best soft drink.
00:14:22 ◼ ► they just have Mountain Dew, which I like. That's kind of all I care about. So I'm actually going
00:14:27 ◼ ► to say no Coke is best. Yeah. Okay. So anyways, kernel panics. That's why people have multiple
00:14:39 ◼ ► that both of you are really concerned about and talked about, even though you can't put GPUs
00:14:45 ◼ ► inside of them, you can host multiple cards holding SSDs. And that's one thing I did when
00:14:51 ◼ ► I had my Intel Mac Pro. I had a couple of cards in there with additional storage. I had my time
00:14:56 ◼ ► machine and my nightly bootable backup internal, which is pretty cool. And then Rick also wrote in
00:15:02 ◼ ► that an audio in particular, audio processing cards can be common. Rick wrote, I know of a
00:15:09 ◼ ► composer that previously used a 2019 Mac Pro network with multiple PCs for his work, but now
00:15:14 ◼ ► uses the rack-mounted M2 Ultra Mac Pro instead. I love the rack-mounted Mac Pro. It's cool.
00:15:22 ◼ ► It's cool. We were getting real-time follow-up last week in a Discord about this stuff,
00:15:27 ◼ ► and I still stand by what I said. There's nothing to put in these Macs anymore. There isn't. There
00:15:33 ◼ ► are better options now than buying a Mac Pro for anything that you would have bought a Mac Pro for
00:15:38 ◼ ► before. That's my feeling. Good news. I guess now a new Mac Pro is going to be made in the US again.
00:15:46 ◼ ► So wow. Thanks Tim Apple. Look, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. We got like 20 minutes in before
00:15:55 ◼ ► the first joke. I am so sorry, but this is how I cope. Okay. No, look, what else are we going to
00:16:03 ◼ ► do? I said to Adina this morning, I said, I feel sorry for Steven because there's no way we're
00:16:07 ◼ ► going to let him get through the episode and you have proven it Federica, so I appreciate it.
00:16:27 ◼ ► That's a different podcast. So Mike, you have been, historically, you're a flip-flopper when
00:16:34 ◼ ► it comes to Apple hardware. This is well known. It's me. I'm the flip out of the three of us.
00:16:41 ◼ ► What are you doing with your Apple watch? Cause you've been, you've been on a journey here.
00:16:44 ◼ ► I have neither flipped nor flopped. I was thinking about getting the series 10 and Federico suggested
00:16:54 ◼ ► I'm sticking with my Apple watch. Okay. There you go. Wait, what do you say? Okay. Okay.
00:16:58 ◼ ► I don't want to give up on the battery. And for me, like my thinking was, Oh, you know,
00:17:03 ◼ ► at some point Apple's going to come out with like a, you know, like this big new watch design and
00:17:09 ◼ ► it's, and it's not going to be on the ultra line. It's going to be like the series line.
00:17:13 ◼ ► And at that point I'll have to give up like the battery gain. So I might as well rip the bandaid
00:17:19 ◼ ► off and deal with it, but I've decided, no, I like my Apple watch ultra. I like that. I don't
00:17:25 ◼ ► have to think about the battery life. I just am going to stick with it for now. I'm not going to
00:17:29 ◼ ► change to the Apple watch series 10. Um, and so I'm sticking with it. So I'm taking a Federico
00:17:35 ◼ ► approach on this one. Nice. Nice. Yeah. I think you'd be happy. Go ultra. I mean, I'm still,
00:17:39 ◼ ► I have my launch day ultra one and it's still rocking and rolling, but I would like to make
00:17:45 ◼ ► an appeal to Apple to do a better job with the bands in the next season. Cause I don't think
00:17:49 ◼ ► they did a good job with the bands this season. There's usually like one season in the year where
00:17:53 ◼ ► like I find the band colors to not be that good. So I hope, you know, maybe the next one,
00:17:59 ◼ ► they can, they can nail it for me. Yeah. Uh, the ultra doesn't get the band updates every time
00:18:06 ◼ ► the regular watch does, which is kind of a letdown. Like they should do them. They should do them all
00:18:11 ◼ ► and not all of them are going to be popular. Right. I would, I would love to know how, how
00:18:26 ◼ ► just, just go back to leather for the watch straps. Just go back to leather. Just get rid
00:18:32 ◼ ► of fine woven. Just go back to leather. Like, come on, you know, fine woven is not right.
00:18:37 ◼ ► Just make watch straps and leather charge more money for them. I don't know, but let's go back
00:18:44 ◼ ► to leather for the watch straps. Okay. What about a leather vision pro strap? That would be gross.
00:18:50 ◼ ► That would be hot and gross. Uh, so Belkin, the company that Apple gets to make products,
00:18:57 ◼ ► Apple's ashamed to make is now making a top head strap for the Apple vision pro. So Lynette band,
00:19:12 ◼ ► This is no, no, no. Okay. I mean, it is close. It's very, very close. Like the strap itself
00:19:23 ◼ ► is close, but the way it attaches. Right. So like it attaches with that like plastic thing that
00:19:28 ◼ ► locks around kind of like those 3d printed things where the ones that we tried, like it was attached
00:19:34 ◼ ► to the inside in the same way that the solo top is. So like it was that kind of like double
00:19:39 ◼ ► thickness magnetic thing that clipped into the side. Like it was, it was attached, sorry,
00:19:44 ◼ ► to the solo knit the same way that the jewel loop band is. You know what I mean? Got it. Okay.
00:19:51 ◼ ► That's what I meant to say. So it was like the, it was the actual thing that I want, which is the
00:19:56 ◼ ► amalgamation of both things. So, but yeah, this looks interesting. I have the Spigen one.
00:20:03 ◼ ► I'm happy with the Spigen one. If the Belkin one proves to be better than great. I do like the look
00:20:09 ◼ ► of the Belkin one because it looks like it has easier adjustability. Yeah. It looks pretty good.
00:20:14 ◼ ► I think it looks nice. And so we'll see what this one looks like. The, the, the actress said the
00:20:22 ◼ ► strap itself looks like the strap that we use Federico, right? Like the actual strap, but the
00:20:27 ◼ ► attachment, I'm not sure about where that came from. Um, but yeah. So if people like this,
00:20:34 ◼ ► I may buy yet another, uh, vision pro headband because the Spigen one I like, but I think I would
00:20:41 ◼ ► like it to be a little bit tighter sometimes. And I think I'm at the tightest. So, um, this,
00:20:47 ◼ ► this might be a better option. It looks very comfortable. I continue to be so fascinated by
00:20:52 ◼ ► Belkin's role as effectively Apple's fixer. Like they just go in and solve the problems.
00:21:01 ◼ ► It's what a, what a fascinating relationship they have. Um, maybe they can sneak some diet,
00:21:07 ◼ ► diet Mount Dew in there, you know? I mean, yeah, I don't get it. This is like, what's the only thing
00:21:13 ◼ ► that Belkin doesn't make. That's still Logitech, Logitech's deal. Like they, they don't make, um,
00:21:20 ◼ ► iPad keyboards. I'm surprised that Belkin doesn't make those. Uh, because that Apple do a good job.
00:21:27 ◼ ► Right. Belkin clean up the things that Apple don't do a good job with. Right. Or, or they need,
00:21:33 ◼ ► they need an, they need an alternative where Apple's keyboards are like, they work great.
00:21:39 ◼ ► Yeah. I, uh, I wonder like what that arrangement is because I can't, some of the stuff that Belkin
00:21:46 ◼ ► do for Apple like this, I can't imagine sell very well. So like, um, I mean, I would love to know
00:21:53 ◼ ► what that arrangement looks like. Like our Apple, our Apple pain Belkin to, I think they are. I,
00:21:59 ◼ ► I think they, I think they're like on a retainer to design these accessories that Apple just want,
00:22:09 ◼ ► I was Googling it. Uh, Belkin got bought by Fox con in 2018. So, you know, Apple already has a,
00:22:17 ◼ ► I mean, Apple was doing Belkin stuff before then, but it's just, you know, I had just forgotten
00:22:21 ◼ ► Fox con bought Belkin links us and a Waymo Waymo. Waymo's a different thing. That's way
00:22:34 ◼ ► Remember the, the back of Waymo. Yeah. The first Google thing. Why has Waymo discontinued?
00:22:40 ◼ ► Okay. Uh, last thing and follow up. Uh, y'all spoke about thunderbolt five coming on the new
00:22:58 ◼ ► announced a SSD that will support thunderbolt five, the, uh, Envoy ultra two terabytes PlayStation
00:23:08 ◼ ► two. It kind of does. Doesn't it? I'm looking at the picture. It looks like a PlayStation,
00:23:13 ◼ ► kind of the ribs around it. I think it's nice. Yeah. Um, one of the, uh, so there's two models,
00:23:20 ◼ ► $400 for two terabytes, $600 for four terabytes up to 6,000 megabits a second and, uh, backward
00:23:29 ◼ ► compatible to thunderbolt three. If you've got a, a lesser Mac at a certain point, is it too fast?
00:23:37 ◼ ► The bits flat at the end? No, it's never too fast. That is 6,000 megabytes per second. No,
00:23:45 ◼ ► it's never too fast. File sizes go up. Display resolutions go up. It'll never be too fast.
00:23:57 ◼ ► You deep down your heart knows you were. Yeah. It's a, yeah. It's like fiber, you know,
00:24:08 ◼ ► deep down you wanted it. That's right. The cable is built in to the drive chassis. They say that's
00:24:14 ◼ ► a benefit because they can make it waterproof and you can go swimming with your very expensive SSD.
00:24:19 ◼ ► Uh, if you want to. Sure. I'm now surfing the OWC website. Steven, if you ever come across the OWC
00:24:28 ◼ ► Thunder Bay flex eight Thunder Bay Thunder Bay, it looks like a mini Mac pro. It's like a little Mac
00:24:37 ◼ ► pro that you put loads of drawers. Oh yeah. Don't don't give him more ideas. Back in the day.
00:24:47 ◼ ► And it, I had one, it had two, three and a half inch drives in it. I had it rated. That's how I
00:24:55 ◼ ► kept my like iTunes library back in the day. Guardian Maximus. What a great name for a product.
00:25:02 ◼ ► I mean, Thunder Bay is also good. So whoever's coming up with OWC names is good. Thunder Bay.
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00:26:46 ◼ ► waiting for you at net suite, N E T S U I T E, net suite.com/connected. Our thanks to net suite
00:26:55 ◼ ► for the support of the show and relay. So Steven you're back and everybody's been dying to know,
00:27:05 ◼ ► what have you been doing? Yeah, that's like, uh, that reminds me of like an early iPad keynote and
00:27:12 ◼ ► Tim Cook was like, everyone's been wondering what we'll do for the next iPad. Like no one's wondering
00:27:17 ◼ ► Tim quick, quick question upfront. Have you tried ayahuasca? Just wondering. That's a game.
00:27:26 ◼ ► Obviously I'm a gamer. Yes. Sure. Is it a game? Let's go with that. Yep. It is. It is. Did you
00:27:33 ◼ ► try it? No, I feel like I've stumbled into something here that I'm going to stop talking
00:27:36 ◼ ► cause it feels uncomfortable. Steven I love you so much. You know, the great thing is that he can't
00:27:45 ◼ ► Google that. Like there is no way in which he will be able to Google that. Nope. I'm just walking away
00:27:50 ◼ ► from it. I kept a list. Well, Steven, lots of people who go away for a long time and come back
00:28:00 ◼ ► inspired. They perform that activity. So, uh, yeah, obviously you haven't. So write us in, send me a
00:28:11 ◼ ► gift. I anticipated this question and I made a checklist of things that I did on my break.
00:28:16 ◼ ► Okay. Installed a new stereo in the truck, built a new Ikea like a long time ago. I remember you
00:28:24 ◼ ► doing that. That was a month ago. Built or assembled a new Ikea bed for one of my children.
00:28:31 ◼ ► It has like a pull out drawers under the bed. It's awesome. Get all the stuff in the way. Very good.
00:28:36 ◼ ► We had to have a, no, this was before I think it was before. Yeah. We had my daughter's iPhone
00:28:45 ◼ ► repaired. Or maybe I'd set that up and then did it on the break. I forget, but she, she broke her
00:28:51 ◼ ► phone. Uh, we went to the zoo as a family with some friends of ours from out of town, uh, detailed my
00:28:57 ◼ ► wife's van inside and out. I took a whole day. Did you find the thing that was rolling around in
00:29:02 ◼ ► there? So here's the thing. So I don't know. I, I took the front seats out of the van, like
00:29:09 ◼ ► unplugged, like under the battery, undid all the little connectors under the seat, unbolted them.
00:29:15 ◼ ► The seats were sitting in my front yard and I pulled a bunch of carpet up and I couldn't find
00:29:21 ◼ ► a marble, but I did find this like piece of hard plastic that was just kind of in there. And not
00:29:27 ◼ ► even, I don't even know where, what it was from. And I removed that, uh, throw it away. And my wife
00:29:33 ◼ ► has said, she's not heard the sound since, but the sound was intermittent to begin with. So
00:29:37 ◼ ► I think maybe, but I really, it sounded like a marble and I didn't find a marble. So I don't know.
00:29:44 ◼ ► I mean, really the fact that you did all of that and didn't introduce a new sound is really the
00:29:50 ◼ ► win. It really is. Yeah. The fact that you took the seats out and didn't introduce a new rattling
00:29:56 ◼ ► or anything into the van. Yeah. Like why is, yeah. Why is this, why does everything sound shaky?
00:30:01 ◼ ► I will put, I'm putting a picture of the van taken apart in the discord for our members.
00:30:09 ◼ ► Detailed the van, early voted, spoke to a journalism class at the University of Memphis.
00:30:18 ◼ ► Did they give you a degree yet? Not yet. I mean, I have a degree. I would like an honorary doctorate.
00:30:31 ◼ ► I don't know. Is that true? I think he said he got that. Didn't he? We were talking about it.
00:30:44 ◼ ► which is a digital camera from the nineties and early two thousands that shoots on floppy disk.
00:30:48 ◼ ► So you posted some images of this, uh, on your, on your Instagram. I think I urged you to do it
00:30:55 ◼ ► because I, I said, if you just said, look how much better this is than the iPhone, uh, uh,
00:31:08 ◼ ► they call them basically because there's this been this meme, federal, I'm sure you've seen it on
00:31:12 ◼ ► threads where it's like, Oh, I'm using my iPhone three GS and just look at the warmth of these
00:31:17 ◼ ► images. So I was actually, I actually agree with most of them. I'm not saying, look, I'm not saying
00:31:24 ◼ ► it's wrong. I'm just saying it's a thing people are doing. I know it's a thing. I know it's a
00:31:28 ◼ ► thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I urge Steven to post his, uh, floppy disk photos, uh, as a,
00:31:34 ◼ ► as a way to prove that some of these images look really good and some of them don't. And the best
00:31:39 ◼ ► one is the last one. It's all over the place. The second, the last one quality wise. Um, and the
00:31:44 ◼ ► sound it makes. So it takes the picture instantly, but it takes like nine seconds to save it to the
00:31:55 ◼ ► I cut down a small tree in my yard with an ax. Oh, this is the tree. Do you, okay. Just in the way,
00:32:06 ◼ ► uh, reported to federal jury duty, but was not selected for a jury. Oh no, no, no. It's good
00:32:15 ◼ ► because if he would have been selected for jury duty, we maybe never would have seen him again.
00:32:26 ◼ ► The guy was guilty for sure. Built a shelter for firewood to keep firewood dry. Okay. Uh,
00:32:42 ◼ ► Learn more about that. Cause you got the boost. Do you think? Yeah. Oh, maybe that's what it was.
00:32:52 ◼ ► volunteer with my brother's nonprofit pressure, watched the porch and driveway. Sure. Uh,
00:33:01 ◼ ► detailed the truck and then I'm not going to read their names, but I had several. So I told
00:33:07 ◼ ► a lot of people in my life like, Oh, let's catch up in October. Cause September is so busy and
00:33:11 ◼ ► everyone cashed that in. And so I had multiple breakfasts and lunches with people, which was
00:33:16 ◼ ► really great. Uh, this reads like a bucket list of things I want to do before I turn 40. Yeah.
00:33:23 ◼ ► Well, you know, some of us that's pretty close. Yeah. And, uh, and I had, I also had lots of days
00:33:29 ◼ ► where like, I just, you know, was a couch potato. Like it wasn't busy every day. Were you bored?
00:33:38 ◼ ► I definitely was like ready to get back to work. Like I kind of felt like I kind of, and I had,
00:33:43 ◼ ► I had other to do things on my list around the house that I just decided like, it's important
00:33:47 ◼ ► to have some days where I don't do anything. So yeah. Um, well, I mean that last week was real
00:33:52 ◼ ► tempting though. Like Apple was really trying to pull you back in. Right. And, and that was
00:33:58 ◼ ► really strange. Like in terms of things I didn't do, no podcasting, no writing. I only listened
00:34:04 ◼ ► to connected. I'd, I heard some of other podcasts, but not all of them. And I only kind of lightly
00:34:10 ◼ ► kept up with the news now until that last week when there was a new Mac every day. And then I
00:34:14 ◼ ► was like, you know, reading stuff and texting with some people and, um, it, but it was really weird
00:34:20 ◼ ► not to be writing, not to be blogging about those and then not to be, you know, preparing
00:34:25 ◼ ► for connected and MPU talking about those new Macs. Um, but, uh, so yeah, it really was like,
00:34:31 ◼ ► the only work I did was enough that we could pay people at relay, like just kind of the,
00:34:35 ◼ ► the bare minimum of bookkeeping and now catching up on a bunch of stuff administrative. Well,
00:34:40 ◼ ► there was that one day where your website broke and both websites broke relay broke one day and
00:34:46 ◼ ► then five pixels broke. So I had had to deal with that. That was pretty early on that relays really
00:34:51 ◼ ► broke. I tried so hard to fix it. I was bouncing dynos left, right and center and I could not,
00:34:56 ◼ ► could not bring the website back to life. Yeah. It was outside of my capability. One thing not
00:35:01 ◼ ► on the list is that I bought a new iPad mini. Huh? And it's great. Okay. Why is it not on the list?
00:35:08 ◼ ► I don't know. I just realized it wasn't. Uh, I'm going to, why did you do that? I'm going to write
00:35:13 ◼ ► down for history. Hang on. I'm finding a pen. Yeah, please do. Cause if the list isn't accurate.
00:35:28 ◼ ► So I, I used the iPad mini six for a long time and then one of the kids iPads needed replacing.
00:35:35 ◼ ► And so the mini became a kid iPad and I bought a refurbished iPad pro. I don't even know what
00:35:39 ◼ ► generation, like just whatever they're all the same to a degree. Um, but back on the mini and
00:35:45 ◼ ► I got to say the size is really good. I really liked the size for just a little tablet for
00:35:50 ◼ ► reading and watching YouTube. I don't work on the iPad. I've just decided like, is this your only
00:35:56 ◼ ► iPad? It is only iPad. There was a while where I was trying to use the iPad for like some, uh,
00:36:10 ◼ ► I need like three PDFs open in this meeting to like check on things and like bouncing around.
00:36:15 ◼ ► It's like, I thought of us just doesn't work the way I want it to. And so, um, so the minis,
00:36:38 ◼ ► I've said this before and I'll say it again, like, thank you all for helping make it possible.
00:36:45 ◼ ► It was, it was easy to do to allow you to do that. You know what I mean? Like the amount of work that
00:36:55 ◼ ► it was, was nothing compared to being able to give you that time. So I appreciate that. And,
00:37:09 ◼ ► Mike, you and I haven't talked about it yet, but like, I think you should do one at some point in
00:37:13 ◼ ► the future. Um, and I would like us to like talk about, you know, like, is this something that we
00:37:18 ◼ ► each get to do every, you know, number of years? Cause I think it's really useful. And what I found,
00:37:27 ◼ ► is that the, the part of me that feels the most rested is like the creative part. Like the,
00:37:38 ◼ ► but the admin work isn't, what's hard, right? What's hard is like talking about what we're
00:37:41 ◼ ► going to do on the shows and the writing and, you know, working on ideas and stuff for the apps,
00:37:48 ◼ ► like that creative work is what's draining. And that part of me is like the most excited to be
00:37:55 ◼ ► back and feel energized. And so it was great. And I think, you know, what we do is creative and,
00:38:00 ◼ ► and stepping away from that sometimes, uh, professionally is, is good. And it's obviously
00:38:05 ◼ ► a huge privilege that, you know, we get to do this for a living and take a break from it for a living.
00:38:11 ◼ ► So, uh, thumbs up all around. Uh, I would like to give a special thanks to, uh, editor of this
00:38:18 ◼ ► podcast, Jim Metzendorf, because if we didn't have Jim, this month would have sucked from me.
00:38:23 ◼ ► Yeah. Thank you, Jim. Because the fact that I still, all I had to do was just post the show
00:38:29 ◼ ► when Jim was done with it made this very simple where if I would have been editing the show
00:38:34 ◼ ► every week, that would have been much harder. So thank you to Jim. Yeah. For, for making,
00:38:42 ◼ ► I don't know what would have happened with that. Um, cause David's not an editor. And so,
00:38:46 ◼ ► yeah, Jim is just so important to us and the team at relay. Like everyone is Kathy and Carrie
00:38:55 ◼ ► picked up a bunch of stuff too. Um, it was great. I will say just to wrap up this, you know,
00:39:01 ◼ ► missing a bunch of the Mac news, I'm pretty psyched about the new Mac mini. I don't have
00:39:05 ◼ ► a place for one of my life. I wish I did like, I could find one. I mean, I haven't had one Mac mini
00:39:13 ◼ ► I mean, it's so small. Doesn't everyone have a place? You just put it underneath something.
00:39:18 ◼ ► It's like a pet rock. Um, if I bought one, I'd want to put googly eyes on the front of it.
00:39:23 ◼ ► Cause he's just, it's just adorable. Um, and Mike, I think you've said it's going to be your next
00:39:27 ◼ ► computer. So I hope, I hope you, whenever you order one, I think you're going to like it. I'm
00:39:31 ◼ ► very excited when they're for sale next week, I will go out to the Apple store. I want to put my
00:39:36 ◼ ► hands on one and, and just, just experiencing it. I think it's fun when Apple revisit something
00:39:42 ◼ ► out for such a long time. Like that iPad design is from 2010 or sorry, the iPad gosh, the Mac mini
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00:41:19 ◼ ► of the show. As we record this iOS 18.2 just just today in our public beta. We got dev beta to
00:41:30 ◼ ► yesterday or two days ago. And I've been playing with it. I know you all spend a lot of time
00:41:36 ◼ ► talking about Apple intelligence when I was gone. And I said a couple of things to add. First of
00:41:42 ◼ ► all, I did not have Jin Moji on my phone. I was like, that's weird. I even like turned Apple
00:41:46 ◼ ► intelligence off in the back on. And then someone in the relay discord said, Oh, you have to have
00:41:52 ◼ ► stickers enabled for Jin Moji to show up, which I had stickers off of my phone. I'm not even sure
00:41:58 ◼ ► why. Like, I don't know. Um, cause you're a Grinch cause cause I'm cranky. And so I turned stickers
00:42:05 ◼ ► on and they were there immediately. And like, I'm not, this is, I'm not the first person to say this,
00:42:10 ◼ ► but the Jin Moji designs like the way it works and looks so much better than image playgrounds,
00:42:18 ◼ ► just night and day. Yep. Yep. It's a good, it's actually a good system. Although you can make some
00:42:24 ◼ ► like horrors. Right. Uh, but usually what I've found is like, it just takes a little tweaking
00:42:30 ◼ ► of like what you're, you're asking it for. Um, but I think it is, it is better than image playgrounds
00:42:37 ◼ ► in my opinion, but yeah, I've found more fun in, in, in, uh, Jim Oji. Yeah. The, uh, the,
00:42:45 ◼ ► all of that stuff though, man, it like, if you're like playing with it, it, your phone gets warm,
00:42:50 ◼ ► it hits your battery. Like these things are working hard and yeah, it, that indicates to
00:42:55 ◼ ► me that this stuff is all happening on device or at least a lot of it is, I'm not sure how much,
00:43:00 ◼ ► if anything yet is going to the secure cloud thing. Apple is built private cloud, private cloud
00:43:08 ◼ ► compute. Um, I don't think the imagery is at all. I don't think it is. I don't, I don't, I don't,
00:43:14 ◼ ► I think, I don't think that is, um, let's see, let me put my phone in airplane mode and see what it
00:43:18 ◼ ► does. Let's see. I mean, you can, you know, it's happening on device because your phone is like,
00:43:23 ◼ ► uncom gets uncomfortably hot, especially in a case that I get, that's like, Oh, this is getting,
00:43:28 ◼ ► this is not good. Uh, image playground. Let's say I'm going to make a picture of an airplane
00:43:42 ◼ ► Oh man. Yeah. I'm gonna, I mean, I do think like, I'm gonna get to some feedback in a minute.
00:43:53 ◼ ► Uh, but I think one of, one of the reasons that these images are the way that they are in like
00:43:57 ◼ ► from like a quality perspective is because they're happening on device. I think that's maybe why,
00:44:02 ◼ ► one of the reasons I think there are many reasons, but I think one of the reasons they're maybe
00:44:06 ◼ ► not that high quality is because they are, um, they are doing them on device. I think that's
00:44:17 ◼ ► it's no different than Dolly or any of the others, except that Apple fills behind those other models,
00:44:25 ◼ ► but they do all the same weird things. Like if there's text and it tries really hard not to
00:44:28 ◼ ► put text in things, but the text looks bad. Like it's not words. It's not even letters.
00:44:34 ◼ ► No, it's just, it's just like nonsense. Yeah. And it definitely has terms that it won't use.
00:44:42 ◼ ► Federica, you talked about this, how you were able to, and I saw those images made some things that
00:44:46 ◼ ► it shouldn't. Um, but I think some of those words got changed, got, got removed Federica, you know?
00:44:52 ◼ ► Oh, that's good to hear. Yeah, that is good to hear. Um, yeah. All in all, like not really
00:44:58 ◼ ► impressed with image playgrounds. It's fun to use for the memes or whatever, but you know,
00:45:08 ◼ ► Well, I asked for the passionate ones to write in, right? Uh, I made a plea and I was like,
00:45:15 ◼ ► if you disagree with me and you have a use for this software, I want to know what it is.
00:45:35 ◼ ► Makes sense, right? Like you're playing like a, uh, an RPG game of a bunch of friends and you
00:45:40 ◼ ► want to create an elf character and you want it to be me as an elf. Like, sure. I can see it, right?
00:45:45 ◼ ► I can see it. Uh, other ideas says Jim themed birthday invitations where the child looks like
00:45:51 ◼ ► a knight or an astronaut. Costume party invitations where the hosts are dressed in their costumes,
00:46:00 ◼ ► Okay. The family calendar one I really struggle with, like just use images of your family. I feel
00:46:06 ◼ ► I'm not saying anyone's wrong, but like people will just, you know, this is what people suggest.
00:46:17 ◼ ► Sean says I'm a coach for a junior high cross country team. If image playgrounds could create
00:46:23 ◼ ► accurate and fun images of the athletes, I could see myself using it for social media posts.
00:46:27 ◼ ► I also make posters on occasion to cheer on athletes and can see fun or cartoony images
00:46:37 ◼ ► I think I have like an overall thought on some of this stuff. Tom says I'm using image playgrounds
00:46:41 ◼ ► and I like it. It's not going to change my life, but I enjoy being able to create photos of my
00:46:45 ◼ ► family in certain situations. I haven't used other AI image generators for this type of thing.
00:46:49 ◼ ► An anonymous user says I use Photoshop a lot to make birthday cards for my family and can't
00:46:55 ◼ ► wait to use the image playground to create versions of my three and six year old and my
00:47:00 ◼ ► partner in some funny scenarios. John says I will 100% use it for as Mike puts it griefing my
00:47:06 ◼ ► friends, which is the only use I've found so far. It's just griefing my friends. That's my own
00:47:12 ◼ ► commentary. And Dwayne says this integrated tool is perfect for generating fun images to feature
00:47:16 ◼ ► on a digital newsletter aimed at young mentees, including graphics that may showcase caricatures
00:47:21 ◼ ► of our mentors. We appreciate any design features that enhance engagement with Gen Alpha.
00:47:26 ◼ ► Dwayne goes on to talk about image wand a little bit. Just like similarly, I've used image wand.
00:47:34 ◼ ► I was really surprised about how that feature actually works. Have you ever used image wand?
00:47:39 ◼ ► Yeah, no, never. So this is where you draw something and then you make a circle around it.
00:47:51 ◼ ► what the point of the sketch is. I guess I can draw Mike. You can draw and it can, it can,
00:47:59 ◼ ► I think what it's, what it's doing is it's like you're giving it another data point, right? So
00:48:04 ◼ ► like if you want a house, maybe you want the house to specifically look like this, but I just,
00:48:11 ◼ ► you know, I'm like, well, how do you do it? You draw something and draw something. And then in
00:48:15 ◼ ► the Apple pencil tools, there's like something that looks like a magic wand in the tools. It's
00:48:22 ◼ ► like a kind of Apple intelligence, he colored wand thing in the, uh, the, the pencil kit tools
00:48:30 ◼ ► you draw around you draw a circle around the thing that you have drawn. And then it will pop up the
00:48:35 ◼ ► image playgrounds UI to be like, give me some more information about this. And you type in what you're
00:48:39 ◼ ► looking for. And then it should take what you've drawn and turn it into something else for all of
00:48:45 ◼ ► these things, which I'm very happy that people have written in because it's like, I kind of feel
00:48:48 ◼ ► like I understand a little bit more of the types of things that people might want to use this stuff
00:48:52 ◼ ► for. I think maybe one of the places where these things are hard for me to get my head around is
00:48:56 ◼ ► like, so in the UK, we have a company that makes greeting cards called Moon Pig. And their whole
00:49:02 ◼ ► thing is like, they have an app and you can order cards and they print the cards and send them to
00:49:07 ◼ ► people. Right. And most Moon Pig cards, I think have the ability to add the photo with the person
00:49:13 ◼ ► you're sending it to in it in some way. So you, you upload a photo and it can be like a little
00:49:18 ◼ ► personalized thing, or maybe it's a funny thing. Like you put their head on, I don't know, John
00:49:22 ◼ ► Cena's body or something, but I never ever once have put a photo on one of these cards. I
00:49:30 ◼ ► specifically choose the cards about photos on. I would never want to do that. Like to take a
00:49:35 ◼ ► picture of somebody and put it on a card and send it to them. Like for me, I don't understand that.
00:49:40 ◼ ► And so like, maybe that's why I have such an aversion to this is like, for whatever reason,
00:49:45 ◼ ► just for me, I would never imagine taking a photo or a likeness of somebody and like sending it to
00:49:53 ◼ ► them, honestly, like for whatever reason that doesn't click with me. And so like, I'm reading
00:50:00 ◼ ► these and I'm like, okay, I still have an issue with the consent of these images. Like people
00:50:06 ◼ ► are having images created of them. Do they, you know, do they want you to do that? I don't know,
00:50:12 ◼ ► but I can see that people would want to use it. I just see that this isn't for me. But again,
00:50:18 ◼ ► as I said before, I think my biggest issue of it is I just don't think the images are good enough.
00:50:23 ◼ ► Yeah. Steven, do you have any thoughts on this? I mean, I get those use cases and I think
00:50:30 ◼ ► in those use cases, someone was not going to go hire somebody to like make those images. And so
00:50:37 ◼ ► I can, I can understand that, but I agree with you. Like they're just not, the images aren't good.
00:50:43 ◼ ► And they're definitely not something that I would want to put out like in a serious context or like
00:50:50 ◼ ► Apple's demos, like, Oh, like you have this, this presentation and like you make a picture of a
00:50:54 ◼ ► gazebo and stick it in, like, go look at that airplane picture. I put it in the show notes,
00:51:04 ◼ ► of context beyond pranking somebody or, you know, joking with somebody. And so I don't know. I don't
00:51:12 ◼ ► think it's that useful for me. And if you've got places in your life where it makes sense, like,
00:51:29 ◼ ► paste it into discord, uh, the result of my artistic creation. As you can see, I drew a sketch
00:51:37 ◼ ► of a very incredible sketch of what I described as a really long dog. And, uh, it was later turned
00:51:56 ◼ ► They ruined it. See the, the overall quality of that image is good. Is that like the illustration
00:52:04 ◼ ► there is a significant issue there. Isn't that? Yeah. Yeah. It's like the, the highest horse I
00:52:09 ◼ ► made on social media the other day is like, it's got an extra leg. It's like, what are we doing?
00:52:17 ◼ ► I have a sketch Federico that you made of me sitting at a Macintosh that I treasure. And so
00:52:23 ◼ ► sketch is pretty good. I've got to say Federico in this situation, I think I'm like the final one,
00:52:29 ◼ ► even, even with the five legs. Sorry. I don't really think that the original sketch is giving
00:52:36 ◼ ► me what I want. Look at that dog. Look at the tail, man. Come on. How can you not like it?
00:52:44 ◼ ► How can you not like it? I don't need AI. I can use my long dog, you know, really long dog. So
00:52:52 ◼ ► long dog, uh, at least mine has four legs. This episode of connected is made possible by Express
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00:54:31 ◼ ► So it seems like according to Mark Gurman at Bloomberg, that Apple has officially started
00:54:47 ◼ ► It seems like and this is interesting because I remember conflicting reports from Gurman.
00:54:55 ◼ ► I was under the impression that Apple already had an internal team dedicated to exploring the idea
00:55:02 ◼ ► of making smart glasses, like not augmented reality glasses, but something more akin to
00:55:07 ◼ ► the meta Ray-Ban glasses, which are regular glasses that have a camera or maybe speakers
00:55:12 ◼ ► built into them. But now it seems like the project has gotten off the ground with this internal
00:55:18 ◼ ► focus group where Apple is basically gathering feedback from employees about the idea of
00:55:26 ◼ ► entering this new category and making these smart glasses as a companion to the iPhone,
00:55:38 ◼ ► Obviously, I have many thoughts on this topic. I just want to say upfront that I find it kind
00:55:44 ◼ ► of strange and maybe this is how Apple operates. This idea of like doing focus groups with employees.
00:56:05 ◼ ► No. So what you're remembering is a report from ages ago where this was a thing that Apple
00:56:19 ◼ ► considerations for what their AR product would look like, something that was basically the
00:56:25 ◼ ► meta Ray-Bans was something that they considered doing and decided not to bother with. So this is
00:56:31 ◼ ► very first steps of the process. This is like, hey, do we want to do this? Let's talk to our
00:56:37 ◼ ► employees and see what they think. Like that is basically as far as they seem to be. If this
00:56:42 ◼ ► report is to be believed. Interesting. I didn't know that they were going to their employees to
00:57:02 ◼ ► of course, like what do you, you know, it's like the way this is, this is not a poll on
00:57:10 ◼ ► My expectation is like, this has been described in the way that it's been described, right? But
00:57:18 ◼ ► I would assume that this takes different shapes depending on what they're doing. But this is
00:57:23 ◼ ► essentially a meeting, even could be this, right? You get like 12 people from their hardware
00:57:30 ◼ ► engineering group in a room and it's like, all right, gang, what do we think about this?
00:57:34 ◼ ► Right. That's why I found the reporting sort of strange because it really painted a picture
00:57:39 ◼ ► of Apple writing a memo and circulating a memo internally being like, hey, do you think we should
00:57:45 ◼ ► make glasses? Like, can you help us out here? And what you're saying makes more sense. Like maybe
00:57:57 ◼ ► right? I think like, depending on the product probably depends on how big those conversations
00:58:08 ◼ ► Right. Right. Regardless. I have a lot of thoughts, especially because I've been using for
00:58:15 ◼ ► the past three, four months at this point. I mean, we're in November. Yeah. Almost five months.
00:58:22 ◼ ► No, I was using them in May. Gosh, six months at this point. I've been using for half a year
00:58:29 ◼ ► the Meta Ray-Ban glasses as my everyday glasses. And this continued to be for me truly a resounding
00:58:38 ◼ ► success for my personal usage, as well as for sort of my in real life social, you know, situation
00:58:50 ◼ ► with people around me. Everybody, literally everybody I've spoken to about this, everybody
00:58:58 ◼ ► knows them. They've heard of them. They have seen them in a store. They have seen them on social
00:59:05 ◼ ► media. They have heard about them. They are familiar with what they are. And the fun thing is
00:59:09 ◼ ► although everybody knows the product, nobody. And I mean, it must have happened with 10 different
00:59:23 ◼ ► When they and the conversation has always gone with, oh, Tichi, you're like, you're super into
00:59:33 ◼ ► tech. Have you heard of the Ray-Bans with the cameras? And I'm like, I'm wearing them now.
00:59:39 ◼ ► And they go like, oh, are those the thing? Like, no, everybody knows them, but nobody has noticed
00:59:46 ◼ ► them upfront. And that's the benefit of it being Ray-Ban, right? Where like, if META would have
00:59:50 ◼ ► designed their own glasses, this wouldn't be the case. People would know what they would look like,
00:59:54 ◼ ► like Snapchat spectacles, right? Like this was the genius in actually using the Wayfarer design.
01:00:01 ◼ ► I've been really liking them. And one of my goals for later this year, I've been working on this
01:00:08 ◼ ► iPad story. And after the iPad story that I finished writing today, finally, I want to move
01:00:14 ◼ ► on to this meta Ray-Ban story. But we mentioned this before, I've been using them as glasses,
01:00:21 ◼ ► but also as like a really quick camera for short videos or quick photos, as well as my speakers.
01:00:26 ◼ ► When I'm doing chores around the house, when I'm walking the dogs, listening to podcasts,
01:00:30 ◼ ► like it's been my go-to accessory for life. And it's really, I see the thing is, I don't even
01:00:35 ◼ ► think about these as an accessory. It's just they're my glasses. Obviously, an Apple version
01:00:41 ◼ ► of this, that I would, to say that I would welcome an Apple version of this would be an understatement.
01:00:48 ◼ ► But I imagine what an Apple version of these glasses could do, like in terms of better gestures,
01:00:57 ◼ ► for example. This is something that I struggle with sometimes with the Ray-Bans, that sometimes
01:01:02 ◼ ► they don't recognize the gesture for pausing them, you know, toggling, play and pause, for example.
01:01:09 ◼ ► And I need to tap on the sidearm of the glasses like multiple times. And occasionally it happens.
01:01:14 ◼ ► Apple, I think, as you know, over the past decades, they have really nailed gesture recognition
01:01:23 ◼ ► across multiple devices and form factors. I would imagine that an Apple version of these glasses
01:01:36 ◼ ► having to rely on a separate app, just like my Apple Watch is always in sync with the iPhone.
01:01:48 ◼ ► watch and vice versa. It just happens. With the Meta Ray-Bans, you need to install the Meta View
01:01:55 ◼ ► app. And it does some background sync at night when you're charging the glasses. But it may fail.
01:02:02 ◼ ► And during the day, if you want to import a photo, it's a manual process. I would imagine that an
01:02:07 ◼ ► Apple version may just, you know, you take a photo with your glasses, you find it immediately
01:02:11 ◼ ► in the Photos app. And speaking of cameras, obviously, you know, I would imagine an Apple
01:02:17 ◼ ► version would have a much better camera, much better picture quality and integration with
01:02:22 ◼ ► Apple intelligence, because you've got to think about Apple intelligence when thinking about this
01:02:25 ◼ ► new category. They would be a natural fit for what they're doing with visual intelligence.
01:02:32 ◼ ► And just the idea of, you know, advice that can be Siri with literally eyes, I think is really
01:02:41 ◼ ► compelling. If I were Apple, that's what I would consider, you know, what can we do in terms of,
01:02:45 ◼ ► like, something that people wear and they can potentially wear all the time, just like AirPods.
01:02:51 ◼ ► But unlike AirPods, we now have cameras that we can use and we can, you know, we can capture
01:02:57 ◼ ► what the user is looking at. I think that's really fascinating. And obviously, I think,
01:03:18 ◼ ► at this point, we're not kidding around anymore. These are, these need to be cool looking. They
01:03:24 ◼ ► need to be lightweight. They need to be something that people can wear without thinking about them.
01:03:28 ◼ ► And so realistically, in the near future, you want to hand off as much as possible of the processing
01:03:40 ◼ ► just like with the Apple Watch and just like with AirPods. Yes, the Apple Watch has some degree of
01:03:45 ◼ ► independence now, but really, you just want to use it with an iPhone. And I think the glasses
01:03:50 ◼ ► may just do the same thing. If Apple were to make this, like, or maybe a better way to say this is,
01:03:56 ◼ ► like, what are the things that you feel like you're missing from the meta Ray-Bans functionality wise?
01:04:06 ◼ ► That if it was like connected to either your iPhone, which it will be connected to your iPhone,
01:04:12 ◼ ► but it's connected to your iPhone, connected to your Apple stuff, like, what are the features
01:04:15 ◼ ► that you think you would conceivably get that you otherwise don't get? Sure. Obviously, better
01:04:24 ◼ ► integration with the camera and the Photos app on the phone instead of having to like this idea of
01:04:28 ◼ ► like syncing, you know, between the Meta View app and the Photos app. No, just take a photo and you
01:04:33 ◼ ► find it in the Photos app. FaceTime integration, I think having, you know, first person perspective
01:04:45 ◼ ► Just that sort of FaceTime experience would be neat. I also think I would very much welcome
01:04:51 ◼ ► better, like, the thing that I'm missing most is better Siri audio and voice quality. When I use
01:04:58 ◼ ► Siri on the glasses, it's kind of reminiscent of using Siri in non-carplay cars that have
01:05:06 ◼ ► regular Bluetooth. Like you get that degraded voice quality and it's not like when you're
01:05:13 ◼ ► speaking and listening to Siri while wearing AirPods, right? When using AirPods, you're getting
01:05:18 ◼ ► the like full-on, full-quality Siri experience. Here, there's a bit of a delay because it's Bluetooth
01:05:25 ◼ ► and Siri's voice doesn't sound as clean and polished and so a natural Siri integration,
01:05:32 ◼ ► especially now with Apple intelligence, that's what I would like to see in the Apple version for sure.
01:05:46 ◼ ► I would like them to do this, but like, if they're just starting, that's many years away, right?
01:06:14 ◼ ► - It's just also strange to see this report. I mean, Google reporting on this days after this
01:06:24 ◼ ► was like talked about internally is just wild and to see, like, we don't see this. We don't see
01:06:32 ◼ ► Apple's internal initial response to what a competitor is doing all that often. So this is
01:06:37 ◼ ► kind of a unique thing. And then when it's something that they were rumored to be looking
01:06:44 ◼ ► at in the past and they shelved for whatever reason, and like, we got the Vision Pro instead
01:06:49 ◼ ► or until, it's all just very strange. And I think we talked about this after Orion was shown off,
01:06:56 ◼ ► like something like this is much closer to the future than Vision Pro, which is, you know,
01:07:01 ◼ ► effectively like ski goggles and pass through and Apple clearly thinks you got to do this to get to
01:07:06 ◼ ► that. But it is, it's just very strange. The whole story, just like the more I think about it,
01:07:15 ◼ ► - Well, I, you know what you're saying about getting, doing this to get to that. I think what
01:07:24 ◼ ► - Right. That like it has required them making the quest and the Brabands to get them to a place
01:07:35 ◼ ► where they could make Orion. And that maybe you do need to come at this from both sides
01:07:41 ◼ ► to get to that middle perfect product in 15 years time from now or whatever. Cause I can think that
01:07:47 ◼ ► is the kind of timeline we're on to where you could conceivably get what we have in these
01:07:52 ◼ ► technologies today in something so small, you know, like if you like, for example, you know,
01:07:58 ◼ ► like I was imagining, you know, Federica said about FaceTime, like what would it take to get
01:08:03 ◼ ► a persona in a FaceTime call from regular glasses. And I think that that is like a 15 year,
01:08:15 ◼ ► something, you know, when it has a long time to get the technology good enough to do that. But I
01:08:21 ◼ ► do think it's doable. But I do think that there is something to be said for doing both sides of this
01:08:29 ◼ ► and because I think it does both things. I think it builds the company's technological prowess in
01:08:37 ◼ ► both areas and also builds the customer. Like Apple would sell a lot of a smart glasses product if it
01:08:45 ◼ ► was done well. It is weird that they have not started this project before now in earnest because
01:08:52 ◼ ► like surely the AirPods are the suggestion and the Apple watch are the suggestion that you
01:08:58 ◼ ► would find success in this. Yes. Right. Those are products which they're not a million miles away
01:09:07 ◼ ► from what this thing is. Like it's just the wearable that does some things that your connected
01:09:13 ◼ ► device can already do. Right. Like but does them slightly differently. Like I can listen to audio
01:09:19 ◼ ► out the speaker of my iPhone and annoy everyone around me, but I can do that. But AirPods are
01:09:23 ◼ ► better for that. You know, like I can look at my notifications on my iPhone screen, but my Apple
01:09:28 ◼ ► watch is more convenient for that at times. Like a glasses product like this to be able to take
01:09:33 ◼ ► photos that won't be as good, but it will be more convenient to be able to take calls. You know,
01:09:36 ◼ ► like it is really a kind of the one of the products that could orbit around the iPhone.
01:09:44 ◼ ► It's intriguing if they are only like as of a week ago thinking that this is a project that
01:09:56 ◼ ► off into theory town now. If like the general disdain that they have for meta has clouded them
01:10:03 ◼ ► into thinking if this is a product they should do. That they're like, oh no, that's them.
01:10:07 ◼ ► Like we don't do what they do. And I would wonder if that kind of thinking could have gotten in the
01:10:16 ◼ ► way for them. Or maybe thinking that like, oh, that's meta. People won't want to buy a product
01:10:22 ◼ ► from them. So we don't need to worry about that. But like I don't think that's the case. So I don't
01:10:27 ◼ ► know. But like it is weird to me that if this is, if Goldman's reporting is correct, that they
01:10:34 ◼ ► only have just started this, I would find that to be curious because it does seem like a logical
01:10:52 ◼ ► I don't know. I don't know. Like I don't know how long it would take them to produce a product like
01:11:10 ◼ ► Yeah, I don't know. Right? Like I think Manta was able to produce the product that they were able
01:11:16 ◼ ► to produce at the time that they could because of the partnership with the Luxottica, I think is the
01:11:22 ◼ ► brand. Right? And to be fair, Orion, like, yeah, the meta stuff, meta Ray-Bans are real, but Orion,
01:11:35 ◼ ► and this project is not that. This project is, it's just Ray-Bans, right? It's just that, right?
01:11:42 ◼ ► Apple was working on, they definitely are working on AR glasses, right? But that is not this.
01:12:18 ◼ ► Sorry, Vision Pro, but it's, I mean, it's the best looking VR headset, but that's, you know,
01:12:23 ◼ ► you know, it's not necessarily a high bar or bar that's worth crossing. So yeah, I don't know.
01:12:31 ◼ ► I think that that is, that's what that is. That for me, that's the biggest risk factor is will
01:12:36 ◼ ► they be able to produce something that people actually want to wear because the anonymity
01:12:40 ◼ ► factor that you're getting Federico would not work here. I don't think because people would know
01:12:47 ◼ ► it's the Apple one. Yeah, yeah. Because it's not going to look like something else. Yeah,
01:12:54 ◼ ► I think you're right. I don't know. I'm a little concerned, like you say, that this project just
01:13:03 ◼ ► started and maybe it was, I'm curious to see if like three years from now, five years from now,
01:13:08 ◼ ► this will turn out to be a bigger miscalculation on Apple's part than we, than what we're thinking
01:13:16 ◼ ► today. You know, like, I don't know. I just feel like it'll be interesting to see if going down
01:13:25 ◼ ► the path of a really expensive headset instead of starting a little more humble and a little smaller
01:13:33 ◼ ► and being like, but most people really want glasses now. And maybe there's, there's value to be had in,
01:13:41 ◼ ► you know, making glasses that don't cost a fortune and can help our AI features with cameras and
01:13:49 ◼ ► microphones and speakers. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, it's, the thing is, it's not like
01:13:55 ◼ ► I bought these glasses because I'm a meta super fan or anything. You know, I just think they look
01:14:03 ◼ ► cool and it's, and I don't even think I'm that locked into the meta ecosystem. I'm not using any
01:14:09 ◼ ► AI features with these glasses, but other people are. And I don't know. I just feel like I'm,
01:14:17 ◼ ► I think it's surprising that a company like Apple didn't see the success of this product coming
01:14:25 ◼ ► and we're here in late 2024 and they just started a focus group about it. I don't know. Very strange.
01:14:32 ◼ ► Well, I think that does it for this week. If you want to find links to the stories you spoke about,
01:14:46 ◼ ► Connected Pro, which is a longer ad-free version of the show. We do each and every week. This week
01:14:53 ◼ ► we talked about my move to fiber, finally. Finally available at my address and super excited to have
01:14:59 ◼ ► it. So go check that out. You can find us online. You can find Federico's work at macstories.net
01:15:05 ◼ ► and he is on Macedon and threads as Vatici. You can find Mike across a bunch of other shows here
01:15:12 ◼ ► on relay and his work, of course, over at Cortex brand. You can find him as iMike online. You can
01:15:19 ◼ ► find me as ismh86 and I co-host Mac power users here on relay each and every Sunday and right