Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:00:07 ◼   ► >> From Relay, this is Connected, episode 527.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Ecamm, Squarespace and Smaller World.

00:00:14 ◼   ► I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci, and

00:00:17 ◼   ► it's my pleasure to introduce Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hello, Steven.

00:00:20 ◼   ► >> Hello, Federico, how are you?

00:00:22 ◼   ► >> I'm good, I'm good, how are you?

00:00:25 ◼   ► >> I am good, it's raining, kind of like a dark, cool, rainy day here, which is-

00:00:29 ◼   ► >> Okay. >> Just fun.

00:00:31 ◼   ► But what's more fun is being joined by our very own Ricky Benchman, Mike Hurley.

00:00:37 ◼   ► >> Hi, I'm Ricky Benchman, Mike Hurley, and I'm here today to try and

00:00:40 ◼   ► get you to buy a t-shirt.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Would you like to look good for the holidays?

00:00:45 ◼   ► Well, let me tell you.

00:00:46 ◼   ► The Relay FM Unwrap the Gift of Podcasts holiday t-shirt is available once again.

00:00:53 ◼   ► What's it gonna take to get you in one of these t-shirts today?

00:00:56 ◼   ► Go to relay.fm/store.

00:00:59 ◼   ► >> I will buy one, okay.

00:01:00 ◼   ► >> And you can get one for your very self, or there's also a link in the show notes.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Also on this store is a really weird collection of merchandise

00:01:09 ◼   ► called Happy Merchandise, which is an artist's interpretation of me

00:01:14 ◼   ► in a ball pit from the podcast.

00:01:16 ◼   ► These are all available to you at relay.fm/store.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I'm making lots of hand gestures right now to try and

00:01:23 ◼   ► invite people to buy, but they can't see them.

00:01:25 ◼   ► >> It's too bad.

00:01:27 ◼   ► >> But what's it gonna take, you know?

00:01:29 ◼   ► >> Nothing, just a bit of money.

00:01:31 ◼   ► >> Okay, well that's what it's gonna take.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Go get one for yourself.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Steven, did I do a good job?

00:01:35 ◼   ► >> It's pretty good.

00:01:36 ◼   ► >> Thank you. >> We'll see how the sales go.

00:01:38 ◼   ► >> Yeah. >> So far, so good.

00:01:40 ◼   ► >> Okay, great.

00:01:40 ◼   ► >> I put your face on a cups and a phone case.

00:01:46 ◼   ► I went wild the other day.

00:01:47 ◼   ► >> Well, you know, as I told you offline, that artwork costs a lot of money,

00:01:52 ◼   ► so you gotta try and make it back somehow.

00:01:55 ◼   ► >> I was shocked.

00:01:56 ◼   ► >> It's very expensive.

00:01:58 ◼   ► >> People, if they are members, which you should be,

00:02:01 ◼   ► you get connected pro longer ad free version of the show each week.

00:02:05 ◼   ► One member perk is this membership podcast that you and I do called Backstage.

00:02:09 ◼   ► And I did the merch live on Backstage, and it's pretty funny.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Okay, follow up.

00:02:17 ◼   ► Mike, tell us about Vision OS 2 and keyboards and what's going on here.

00:02:23 ◼   ► >> So this is some long term follow up.

00:02:25 ◼   ► So we have spent time in the past talking about the MoKeebo keyboard.

00:02:29 ◼   ► >> MoKeebo.

00:02:30 ◼   ► >> MoKeebo.

00:02:31 ◼   ► >> Which is the keyboard that you can kind of rub your fingers across the keys and

00:02:35 ◼   ► use it as a mouse.

00:02:37 ◼   ► We originally called it a sketchy keyboard and got lots of feedback from

00:02:40 ◼   ► people who have used it and say that it does work.

00:02:43 ◼   ► Well, what is even further- >> MoKeebo truthers, if you will.

00:02:45 ◼   ► >> The keyboard truthers out there.

00:02:47 ◼   ► What is even further back follow up?

00:02:49 ◼   ► This was a post on Mastodon by Chaos Tian,

00:02:53 ◼   ► who was the person who designed the 3D printed case and

00:03:00 ◼   ► also created some of the spec files for how to extract the touch ID button from

00:03:05 ◼   ► a magic keyboard and put them into that little case thing.

00:03:10 ◼   ► So Chaos did that.

00:03:10 ◼   ► Anyway, they said, after Vision OS 2 enabling mouse support,

00:03:14 ◼   ► which was a thing I did not remember had happened,

00:03:17 ◼   ► the MoKeebo Fusion seems to work pretty well with the Vision Pro as a portable

00:03:21 ◼   ► keyboard/occasional trackpad for high precision selection.

00:03:24 ◼   ► So, you know, there you go.

00:03:27 ◼   ► >> I ordered one.

00:03:30 ◼   ► >> Yeah, you did.

00:03:31 ◼   ► >> From the sketchy website.

00:03:32 ◼   ► >> Yeah, you did.

00:03:33 ◼   ► >> I have no idea if it's actually gonna ship or not.

00:03:36 ◼   ► I actually ordered one from their Indiegogo page, which seemed a bit more legit.

00:03:42 ◼   ► The thing is I ordered one from their Indiegogo profile four days ago.

00:03:51 ◼   ► And then I got no confirmation whatsoever.

00:03:54 ◼   ► >> Ooh.

00:03:55 ◼   ► >> Ooh.

00:03:56 ◼   ► >> I'm sure it's fine.

00:03:57 ◼   ► >> Are they even considering shipping the unit?

00:04:00 ◼   ► It's unclear right now.

00:04:02 ◼   ► I got a receipt from Indiegogo.

00:04:04 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:04:05 ◼   ► >> But that was it.

00:04:06 ◼   ► >> That was it.

00:04:06 ◼   ► >> Really.

00:04:07 ◼   ► That was it.

00:04:07 ◼   ► That was it.

00:04:08 ◼   ► >> They have concepts of a plan for shipping that thing to you.

00:04:11 ◼   ► >> Yes, yes.

00:04:12 ◼   ► They have that.

00:04:13 ◼   ► >> I don't understand.

00:04:14 ◼   ► So with Indiegogo, you can just buy stuff?

00:04:17 ◼   ► Like it's not like a builder?

00:04:19 ◼   ► >> I will let you know if it works.

00:04:22 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I mean, the answer is we'll see, I guess.

00:04:25 ◼   ► >> In the past, I have used Indiegogo to, it's weird because it's like you think of it as a Kickstarter,

00:04:30 ◼   ► but like it's like a Kickstarter that keeps going after the fact.

00:04:33 ◼   ► >> Yeah, it's weird.

00:04:34 ◼   ► >> And so like I have bought and received like an eGPU and a handheld from Indiegogo from two separate quote unquote "campaigns" after they were over.

00:04:47 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:04:48 ◼   ► >> So it's like the campaign stays up and you can continue purchasing the item, but it's all very unclear, to be fair.

00:04:57 ◼   ► >> Indiegogo, no offense to Indiegogo, but like I get like a weird fuck.

00:05:04 ◼   ► It's like, why did you not do Kickstarter?

00:05:06 ◼   ► You know, like, because I've seen lots of Indiegogo campaigns for things that have been kicked off of Kickstarter and they go to Indiegogo and there's just like a thing of like, oh, why are we here?

00:05:17 ◼   ► Like, why did we choose Indiegogo as the starting point?

00:05:20 ◼   ► You know, I don't know if you guys ever feel that way, but that's kind of how I feel about Indiegogo.

00:05:23 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:05:24 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:05:24 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:05:25 ◼   ► >> Yeah, it's, I don't know.

00:05:27 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:05:28 ◼   ► I'll let you know if it ever shows up.

00:05:31 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:05:32 ◼   ► No clue.

00:05:33 ◼   ► But it looks, it looks interesting.

00:05:35 ◼   ► And it seems like there's a version two of the Moquibo Fusion, which is what I ordered, should be compatible with both VisionOS and iPadOS.

00:05:44 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:05:45 ◼   ► Maybe at some point it'll show up.

00:05:47 ◼   ► >> The next time a follow up that I just read in our document made me, I had to really sit and think about this for a second where it kind of felt like I was, I mean, we're in like a James Bond movie and someone is trying to get like some documents to us.

00:06:02 ◼   ► It says the marble is still in the van.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And like, I've worked it out now, but it took, it took a minute for me to work out what this was in reference to.

00:06:13 ◼   ► It's like the crow flies at night or something.

00:06:15 ◼   ► >> That's right.

00:06:16 ◼   ► We spoke about this on what, how I spent so much time on my sabbatical.

00:06:21 ◼   ► We think there was a marble loose somewhere in our minivan that you would only hear every once in a while.

00:06:27 ◼   ► And I put a picture in Discord.

00:06:28 ◼   ► I took the seats out of the van, pulled a bunch of carpet back.

00:06:31 ◼   ► I thought I had fixed it.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I found this like piece of plastic.

00:06:34 ◼   ► I didn't hear it anymore.

00:06:36 ◼   ► But my wife, this is a direct copy and paste from iMessage.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Yesterday, Mary texted me and all it said was the marble is still in the van.

00:06:45 ◼   ► So I failed.

00:06:47 ◼   ► And honestly, I'm probably going to take another month off just to process this.

00:06:51 ◼   ► >> I was going to say, you got to go back now.

00:06:53 ◼   ► You did not complete the sabbatical.

00:06:56 ◼   ► >> Yeah.

00:06:56 ◼   ► >> You got to go back and do it.

00:06:58 ◼   ► >> I know.

00:06:59 ◼   ► I don't, I mean, the next step is like truly disassembling this vehicle.

00:07:04 ◼   ► And I just, it seems like a lot.

00:07:06 ◼   ► >> I'm going to tell you something now, all right?

00:07:09 ◼   ► You can do whatever you want with this.

00:07:10 ◼   ► >> Trade the car in.

00:07:11 ◼   ► >> But I feel like I need to tell you.

00:07:12 ◼   ► No, I don't mean that.

00:07:13 ◼   ► You are an incredibly skilled individual.

00:07:16 ◼   ► I've seen you do things in like two things and I'm like, wow, how did he do that?

00:07:20 ◼   ► You know, like I've seen you get on a roof, like just things that I would not do, right?

00:07:24 ◼   ► Or like even doing the carplay thing, right?

00:07:26 ◼   ► Where like you, you know, you change the carplay thing out.

00:07:29 ◼   ► You like change suspension or whatever.

00:07:31 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And please don't take this as a challenge.

00:07:36 ◼   ► I don't know how I feel about you disassembling an entire minivan.

00:07:41 ◼   ► Like I'm convinced something won't go back together correctly.

00:07:46 ◼   ► >> Can I say something else?

00:07:48 ◼   ► Can I say something else to add on what Mike said?

00:07:51 ◼   ► I am by no means a handyman.

00:07:54 ◼   ► But I think you're thinking through this problem the wrong way.

00:08:01 ◼   ► I think you've disassembled the van, right?

00:08:04 ◼   ► You took out all the seats and whatever.

00:08:07 ◼   ► But I think the marble is actually in one of the seats.

00:08:12 ◼   ► You've been looking in the van, but I think the marble is inside the seat.

00:08:18 ◼   ► >> Oh, interesting.

00:08:20 ◼   ► >> That's why you were unable to identify the marble.

00:08:24 ◼   ► >> Have we also considered that maybe there's just a marble in Mary's backpack?

00:08:29 ◼   ► >> She's just like, there's marbles in every car.

00:08:34 ◼   ► What is going on?

00:08:35 ◼   ► >> The marble jumped into your truck.

00:08:37 ◼   ► >> You're never going to get this thing.

00:08:42 ◼   ► But yeah, I'm with Federico.

00:08:44 ◼   ► Maybe it's not where you think.

00:08:46 ◼   ► Like it's somewhere else.

00:08:48 ◼   ► The marble's coming from inside the house.

00:08:52 ◼   ► >> Or you have a potentially dangerous way to test out your theory that the marble is

00:08:59 ◼   ► in the van.

00:09:00 ◼   ► I do not advise this.

00:09:02 ◼   ► But have you tried moving the van without the seats and see if you hear the marble moving

00:09:08 ◼   ► around?

00:09:09 ◼   ► >> I mean, the problem is that it's intermittent.

00:09:14 ◼   ► And so we thought it was fixed now for like three weeks.

00:09:19 ◼   ► And then it came back.

00:09:21 ◼   ► And so I have to drive the van without the seats for a while.

00:09:25 ◼   ► And that seems bad.

00:09:27 ◼   ► >> Right, right.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Yeah, don't do that.

00:09:30 ◼   ► Or if you do, maybe record a YouTube video for a sponsor while you do that.

00:09:34 ◼   ► >> Oh my god, he made the joke.

00:09:36 ◼   ► We all made an iMessage.

00:09:37 ◼   ► He made it.

00:09:38 ◼   ► If you go check your iMessage now, Federico, there's two references to this occurring.

00:09:44 ◼   ► But yes, one way to do it is to go too fast.

00:09:47 ◼   ► That's the way to do it.

00:09:48 ◼   ► >> Yeah, just shoot the marble out of the back and get it on the action camera.

00:09:54 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm going to do.

00:09:56 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not going to -- I don't know.

00:09:59 ◼   ► Disassembling it further would get complicated.

00:10:01 ◼   ► And I already had to like disconnect the battery so I could unplug the airbags from the seats.

00:10:05 ◼   ► Like it was already a lot.

00:10:07 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:10:08 ◼   ► We may just live with the marble.

00:10:09 ◼   ► >> Yeah, the marble's part of the family law now.

00:10:13 ◼   ► >> Maybe.

00:10:14 ◼   ► >> You know?

00:10:15 ◼   ► That's just where it is.

00:10:16 ◼   ► >> If we sell it at some point in the distant future, we should be like, hope it's quiet.

00:10:19 ◼   ► >> Just drive slow.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Just really, really slow.

00:10:23 ◼   ► Like on the test drive.

00:10:24 ◼   ► Like just very, very slow.

00:10:27 ◼   ► >> Bad news.

00:10:30 ◼   ► >> No.

00:10:31 ◼   ► >> Grainy gate.

00:10:32 ◼   ► >> No, no, no.

00:10:33 ◼   ► >> Grainy gate.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Grainy gate.

00:10:35 ◼   ► Marble gate.

00:10:36 ◼   ► >> We're not doing this.

00:10:37 ◼   ► This is not a gate.

00:10:38 ◼   ► This is a person.

00:10:39 ◼   ► >> Steven?

00:10:40 ◼   ► >> No.

00:10:41 ◼   ► >> Just stop going on the MacRumors forums.

00:10:42 ◼   ► >> Yeah, why?

00:10:43 ◼   ► >> Someone send this to us.

00:10:44 ◼   ► >> I don't care.

00:10:45 ◼   ► >> This is from --

00:10:46 ◼   ► >> Who is this someone?

00:10:47 ◼   ► >> This is listener --

00:10:48 ◼   ► >> Listener Stephen with a V.

00:10:52 ◼   ► >> It doesn't matter.

00:10:54 ◼   ► >> If someone sends you a link to the MacRumors forums, it also counts.

00:11:00 ◼   ► Stop going on the MacRumors forums.

00:11:02 ◼   ► It's like people with conspiracy theories hanging out in there.

00:11:06 ◼   ► That's all it is.

00:11:07 ◼   ► >> But anyway.

00:11:08 ◼   ► >> What is happening?

00:11:09 ◼   ► >> Please, please, yes.

00:11:10 ◼   ► >> The MacBook M1 cameras apparently look grainy after the Mac OS 15.1 update.

00:11:19 ◼   ► And I have an M1 MacBook Air and I see this.

00:11:23 ◼   ► It's weird.

00:11:24 ◼   ► It's a software processing thing.

00:11:26 ◼   ► >> Maybe you can spend time on the forums then.

00:11:28 ◼   ► I guess if you have it.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Wait, did you notice it before you read about it?

00:11:35 ◼   ► >> I don't ever -- that's on a laptop I only use for betas.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I had to go get it off the shelf and update it.

00:11:43 ◼   ► I don't really ever use the camera built in until any laptop.

00:11:46 ◼   ► But there you go.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Grainy.

00:11:49 ◼   ► Apple will fix it.

00:11:51 ◼   ► It's probably fixing 15.2.

00:11:53 ◼   ► >> Grainy gate.

00:11:55 ◼   ► >> Grainy gate.

00:11:58 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Ecamm.

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00:14:00 ◼   ► Go check it out and our thanks to Ecamm for their support of the show.

00:14:03 ◼   ► listener Jeremy sent in something called the Nomad.

00:14:10 ◼   ► This is a product on Kickstarter, not Indiegogo, thankfully.

00:14:15 ◼   ► They've raised $135,000 over a goal of $10,000, which seems low when I describe this product

00:14:22 ◼   ► to you, but definitely like, I just opened the oh my God, I need to buy this.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Yeah, one of us will.

00:14:29 ◼   ► We'll talk about this.

00:14:31 ◼   ► Let's talk about three things.

00:14:32 ◼   ► It's three things, okay?

00:14:34 ◼   ► A rugged waterproof tablet, a premium portable speaker, and a mobile CarPlay system.

00:14:42 ◼   ► These are not three Kickstarters.

00:14:45 ◼   ► It's one Kickstarter.

00:14:48 ◼   ► We call it Nomad.

00:14:50 ◼   ► So this thing is incredible.

00:14:53 ◼   ► It's this Android tablet that supports CarPlay and Android Auto, supports AirPlay, has Bluetooth

00:14:58 ◼   ► and headphone jack out, lots of mounting options.

00:15:00 ◼   ► It's waterproof.

00:15:01 ◼   ► Basically, it's a take it anywhere, including the shower, CarPlay, AirPlay, speaker thing.

00:15:11 ◼   ► And I kind of love it.

00:15:13 ◼   ► What they are, Federico, if you haven't seen this, you have to watch the video with sound

00:15:18 ◼   ► later because it's hilarious.

00:15:21 ◼   ► The guy doing the video, this is, if anything, this is a fantastic Kickstarter campaign from

00:15:27 ◼   ► like a video perspective.

00:15:30 ◼   ► The marketing of this product is very good.

00:15:32 ◼   ► And what they're going for, which I appreciate, is this is the portable TV, right?

00:15:38 ◼   ► You know, from when we were kids, people would have portable TVs.

00:15:42 ◼   ► That's what they're going for here.

00:15:44 ◼   ► Now Stephen, you are a famed CarPlay enthusiast.

00:15:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:15:51 ◼   ► How are they doing this?

00:15:53 ◼   ► So there's a bunch of Android tablets you can get.

00:15:58 ◼   ► And you see this a lot in like aftermarket stereo stuff in cars.

00:16:01 ◼   ► Like you buy these things off AliExpress or Amazon or something.

00:16:05 ◼   ► There's huge Android tablets and they run CarPlay, or like they can receive CarPlay.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Because if you remember, all the brains of CarPlay are happening on your phone.

00:16:17 ◼   ► Basically, the screen just has to be the right kind of receiver for that signal.

00:16:25 ◼   ► And this is not something that Apple, as far as I know, that Apple has to approve because

00:16:28 ◼   ► surely they would not approve like a 17 inch Android tablet you can slap in your F150.

00:16:35 ◼   ► But the airplane stuff, you know, it's like people have built these packages to run on

00:16:39 ◼   ► top of Android.

00:16:40 ◼   ► And so this thing is an Android tablet that can do a bunch of these different things.

00:16:45 ◼   ► And one of the things it can do is accept CarPlay.

00:16:48 ◼   ► Because like, isn't Apple involved in CarPlay?

00:16:53 ◼   ► Is there no like blessing of this?

00:16:55 ◼   ► I don't, there may be or there may have been, but it seems like, I couldn't find a lot of

00:17:02 ◼   ► information on this, but it does seem like either there's not anymore or people have

00:17:09 ◼   ► figured out how to do it themselves.

00:17:11 ◼   ► Which that doesn't, it doesn't strike me with confidence that this is a product that will

00:17:17 ◼   ► work forever is what is kind of what I'm saying.

00:17:20 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:17:21 ◼   ► Like, because I don't know, I just don't know about, like, for example, there are a bunch

00:17:26 ◼   ► of headphones that you can buy that are fake AirPods that when you try to pair them, somebody

00:17:31 ◼   ► has somehow re-engineered the AirPods pairing thing and it will show that, right?

00:17:36 ◼   ► Like, this has been a thing forever.

00:17:38 ◼   ► There's been a bunch of YouTube videos about this, you know, people have done this.

00:17:42 ◼   ► And so like, there are always workarounds, but every time there's a new version of iOS,

00:17:46 ◼   ► like is this thing gonna jam up?

00:17:48 ◼   ► But anyway, it is a very interesting product because you say it is an Android tablet at

00:17:53 ◼   ► heart, so you can run Android apps on it and you can run CarPlay on it and it is fully

00:17:58 ◼   ► waterproof.

00:17:59 ◼   ► It's a, so it's a screen so you could watch things on it.

00:18:03 ◼   ► It's got speakers, it's got a bunch of attachments that you can, you know, you can, it's got a

00:18:08 ◼   ► stand, you can strap it to things.

00:18:10 ◼   ► It has a shower mount.

00:18:11 ◼   ► It has a battery that attaches magnetically, has a cup holder.

00:18:16 ◼   ► It's a very, I think a very well thought out, clever product.

00:18:21 ◼   ► Now you know, how does it actually run?

00:18:24 ◼   ► You know, I was digging through some of the comments today, the actual like hardware,

00:18:28 ◼   ► the thing like it's gonna be, it's gonna be a little rough.

00:18:31 ◼   ► So it's got Android 13, it's running a Qualcomm 662 processor, which I think Federico correct

00:18:38 ◼   ► me if I'm wrong, it's like lower powered than a bunch of the like gaming headphones that

00:18:43 ◼   ► we use.

00:18:44 ◼   ► You know, so like there are ways to maybe make this thing a little bit, you know, better,

00:18:49 ◼   ► but it may also just do the job of like, you want to listen to things or watch YouTube videos

00:18:55 ◼   ► in the shower I get, you know, like it's, it's a clever product.

00:18:59 ◼   ► Like it, you know, I think that they've, they've developed something really interesting.

00:19:04 ◼   ► I just, there's a couple of things I wonder how's it gonna work?

00:19:09 ◼   ► They say they're going to deliver this in February.

00:19:12 ◼   ► Like that feels like the, the kickstart, a mistake, like I don't, you know, of like over

00:19:19 ◼   ► promising and, and it being delivered very late.

00:19:22 ◼   ► The net just happens to everyone, you know?

00:19:25 ◼   ► Sure.

00:19:26 ◼   ► So yeah, it's an interesting idea.

00:19:27 ◼   ► An interesting campaign.

00:19:28 ◼   ► Steven, are you going to get one?

00:19:30 ◼   ► So I was interested in it because like, yeah, CarPlay in the shower would be great.

00:19:34 ◼   ► So I have a Bluetooth, like some waterproof speaker in the shower and listen to podcasts

00:19:39 ◼   ► and music in the shower.

00:19:40 ◼   ► Your phone's like in the bathroom and you're like yelling at Siri and it's not ideal.

00:19:47 ◼   ► And so I showed this to Mary.

00:19:48 ◼   ► It's like, look how cool this is.

00:19:51 ◼   ► And she had such a visceral reaction to this.

00:19:56 ◼   ► The only other time I've really seen this sort of reaction from her was when I strolled

00:20:00 ◼   ► into the house wearing the vision pro and she was like, no, no, like you're not wearing

00:20:05 ◼   ► this in the house.

00:20:06 ◼   ► She's like, you can not have a screen in the shower.

00:20:08 ◼   ► I was like, well, it's not like a camera.

00:20:11 ◼   ► I think I was like, it's not like, not like I have an iPad in there.

00:20:15 ◼   ► She's like, no, like that's too much.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Like very visceral reaction to it.

00:20:20 ◼   ► And she doesn't mind the Bluetooth speaker.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Like she uses it too.

00:20:24 ◼   ► But something about this she did not love.

00:20:28 ◼   ► So probably not showing up at my household.

00:20:32 ◼   ► You're sad.

00:20:33 ◼   ► I bet this feels like they made it for you.

00:20:34 ◼   ► This feels like the, like an end point to a thing we've been talking about for ages.

00:20:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:20:39 ◼   ► And maybe, you know, maybe I could build my own.

00:20:41 ◼   ► So in, in Googling quietly in the background, I'm not going to link to it.

00:20:44 ◼   ► Cause like no one should actually buy this.

00:20:46 ◼   ► There's a $40 USB dongle that is like injects CarPlay into an Android tablet.

00:20:53 ◼   ► And in the description is a URL to download an APK to run on the Android tablet.

00:20:58 ◼   ► Yes.

00:20:59 ◼   ► And the URL is not an actual domain name.

00:21:02 ◼   ► It's an IP address like in the Amazon description.

00:21:04 ◼   ► So yes, yes.

00:21:06 ◼   ► I did not click, I did not put that in a, in a browser.

00:21:10 ◼   ► Like I do not, nothing to do with that on my network.

00:21:13 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, it is, it's weird to me that you're like, I won't buy this because

00:21:18 ◼   ► my wife said I can't, but I might make my own.

00:21:20 ◼   ► I'm not a hundred percent sure how we get to that.

00:21:23 ◼   ► Like that's not complete.

00:21:24 ◼   ► You wouldn't like that either probably, but you know, it'd be a fun project.

00:21:26 ◼   ► Cause it's the same thing.

00:21:28 ◼   ► It's why you're doing the same thing.

00:21:31 ◼   ► You're just like hiding it like, which is worse, right?

00:21:34 ◼   ► Yes.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Secret CarPlay shower tablet is worse.

00:21:37 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:38 ◼   ► It's worse than just buying the CarPlay shower tablet.

00:21:42 ◼   ► That's true.

00:21:43 ◼   ► I respect this.

00:21:44 ◼   ► I respect this project.

00:21:45 ◼   ► You know, the video is really good.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Like even if you're not interested in it, the video is a couple minutes long.

00:21:50 ◼   ► They did a great job on it.

00:21:51 ◼   ► Like really like it's funny and engaging and that it is, it's good.

00:21:57 ◼   ► It, it, the video made me go from, I have no use to this too.

00:22:02 ◼   ► I want this.

00:22:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:05 ◼   ► So I'm not going to buy it cause I don't, I don't want it that bad, but like the video

00:22:08 ◼   ► was good enough that it made me want, I'm intrigued.

00:22:11 ◼   ► I'm intrigued to see how this project unfolds.

00:22:14 ◼   ► Uh, I will be keeping an eye on it.

00:22:17 ◼   ► That's for sure.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:19 ◼   ► I think it's just interesting that it's a, it's CarPlay beyond sort of the normal places

00:22:24 ◼   ► we think of CarPlay being like you could see it.

00:22:26 ◼   ► And we're going to talk about the Mark Gurman thing later on.

00:22:28 ◼   ► Like something like CarPlay could be useful in other realms.

00:22:34 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:22:36 ◼   ► It's pretty cool.

00:22:38 ◼   ► Mike tell us about Apple's new book.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Oh, I mean Apple are working with Asseline, uh, to make a book, which is $450, which is

00:22:54 ◼   ► very normal for Asseline books.

00:22:57 ◼   ► That's like what they do.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Um, they make very expensive books.

00:23:01 ◼   ► I respect that this book comes in a clear case and it looks like a cassette, um, or

00:23:06 ◼   ► like a CD.

00:23:07 ◼   ► I think they've done, they might art books and they make expensive coffee table books

00:23:13 ◼   ► and you think to yourself, okay, they're having another shot at the design in California or

00:23:19 ◼   ► whatever.

00:23:20 ◼   ► Yeah, let's go.

00:23:21 ◼   ► I mean, I think it's a good thing.

00:23:24 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:26 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:28 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:30 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:32 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:34 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:36 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:40 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:42 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:44 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:46 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:48 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:50 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:52 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:54 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:56 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:23:58 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:00 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:02 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:04 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:06 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:08 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:10 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:12 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:14 ◼   ► I think it's a good thing.

00:24:16 ◼   ► As a reminder,

00:24:18 ◼   ► and this is no disrespect to Lauryn Hill,

00:24:21 ◼   ► but the best album of all time is The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill,

00:24:26 ◼   ► followed up by Thriller and Abbey Road,

00:24:28 ◼   ► and then Purple Rain.

00:24:30 ◼   ► I'm sorry, but it's not accurate information.

00:24:34 ◼   ► I don't know how a group of people came together and did this.

00:24:38 ◼   ► It's wild to me.

00:24:40 ◼   ► I think I had this conversation with you or Jon,

00:24:42 ◼   ► or you and Jon together at the time.

00:24:44 ◼   ► My opinion is I've always thought that it was going to be either Thriller or Abbey Road.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And just my personal opinion,

00:24:53 ◼   ► if you go by influence on the music market,

00:24:55 ◼   ► on just the style of music production,

00:24:57 ◼   ► just influence on people in general,

00:25:00 ◼   ► it should have been Thriller, in my opinion.

00:25:03 ◼   ► But the whole top ten is truly kind of unhinged.

00:25:08 ◼   ► It gives me the vibe of, "Hey, let's just be different for different's sake."

00:25:14 ◼   ► I cannot believe that Rumours by Fleetwood Mac did not make the top ten.

00:25:18 ◼   ► Yep.

00:25:19 ◼   ► I think Rumours by Fleetwood Mac is the best album ever made.

00:25:23 ◼   ► That's my pick.

00:25:25 ◼   ► It's not my favourite,

00:25:26 ◼   ► but I think it is the best collection of music ever put together.

00:25:30 ◼   ► I think it is an untouchable album.

00:25:34 ◼   ► No disrespect to Frank Ocean,

00:25:36 ◼   ► but Frank Ocean higher than Prince?

00:25:39 ◼   ► No.

00:25:40 ◼   ► I just think that something like that,

00:25:42 ◼   ► Frank Ocean is just behind Prince.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Frank Ocean was four.

00:25:47 ◼   ► But Frank Ocean ahead of Songs in the Key of Life by Stevie Wonder,

00:25:51 ◼   ► I don't understand it.

00:25:53 ◼   ► I feel like an album released in 2016,

00:25:55 ◼   ► we haven't had enough time from it.

00:25:57 ◼   ► Anyway, the list is wild.

00:26:00 ◼   ► It is actually kind of very fitting that they've put it in a $450 book.

00:26:05 ◼   ► But it is a –

00:26:07 ◼   ► I'm sure that the book does a much better –

00:26:10 ◼   ► does an interesting job of explaining it because it's got editorial in it too.

00:26:14 ◼   ► But yeah, the list is wild.

00:26:16 ◼   ► The book is expensive.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I respect Apple making books.

00:26:22 ◼   ► I think they should do more of this stuff because why not?

00:26:28 ◼   ► But this one is –

00:26:31 ◼   ► truly, they are I guess continuing the unhinged nature of their book releases, right?

00:26:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:39 ◼   ► Where the first one was unhinged just because of the fact that it existed.

00:26:43 ◼   ► That was unhinged.

00:26:45 ◼   ► And now they have continued it by putting this list into a book.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Designed by Apple in California was a couple hundred bucks when it was released I think.

00:26:54 ◼   ► I think it was like $300, wasn't it?

00:26:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:57 ◼   ► And now on eBay they go for over $1,000 a copy.

00:27:02 ◼   ► Given the vibe of this list, this book should have been $420, not $450.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Blaze it.

00:27:08 ◼   ► Yeah. Absolutely.

00:27:10 ◼   ► There's a new iOS 18.2 beta that we can discuss.

00:27:15 ◼   ► 18.2 beta 3.

00:27:17 ◼   ► Apple keeps rolling with this 18.2 beta for a rumored release date.

00:27:22 ◼   ► It now seems of the week of December 9th according to MacRumors

00:27:26 ◼   ► and some information they received from the EE carrier in the UK, I want to say.

00:27:31 ◼   ► It seems like that's going to be the launch week for 18.2.

00:27:35 ◼   ► So Apple basically shooting to have 18.2 and more Apple intelligence features out before Christmas and the holiday break.

00:27:43 ◼   ► There are some changes in beta 3 as well.

00:27:49 ◼   ► There's the new ability for cameras –

00:27:53 ◼   ► a couple of things for camera control, really.

00:27:55 ◼   ► There's the previously announced ability to lock auto exposure and auto focus with camera control with a light press.

00:28:02 ◼   ► Have any of you tried this? I tried this.

00:28:04 ◼   ► Yes, I tried this.

00:28:05 ◼   ► I continue to be – what's a good word in English – mystified by camera control.

00:28:12 ◼   ► Yeah. It's too complicated.

00:28:14 ◼   ► I have no idea what I'm doing.

00:28:16 ◼   ► Honestly, I enabled this and I was like, "Okay, it's one more thing that I need to learn."

00:28:22 ◼   ► And I tried it for a couple of days, basically never used it, and went back to my simple, you know,

00:28:28 ◼   ► just press the button to open the camera and press it again to take a photo.

00:28:32 ◼   ► Same. So the way it works is when you open camera control, you light press, you light press and hold,

00:28:40 ◼   ► and then it will lock the focus and exposure on what is in the center of the frame,

00:28:46 ◼   ► and it will keep that lock until you let go or take the photo.

00:28:52 ◼   ► If you remove it, then it gets rid of the lock again, which is like, "Okay, this is not the way anybody expected this."

00:29:01 ◼   ► What we expected was this to work like a camera works, and they didn't really do that?

00:29:08 ◼   ► They kind of did? I don't know. Maybe they kind of did? Stephen, did they do this? I don't know.

00:29:13 ◼   ► Nevertheless, it's weird. But they did add a thing that I do like, which is there is a new option for require screen on.

00:29:23 ◼   ► So I turn that off, which now means that I can just press the camera control button and it always opens the camera.

00:29:30 ◼   ► I don't need to have the screen awake first. I think that is a good feature of making it more natural.

00:29:36 ◼   ► I will say I am a camera control user. That is how I open the camera and it's how I take photos now.

00:29:43 ◼   ► I have internalized it. It works for me. But everything else, I don't really do.

00:29:50 ◼   ► I do leave it on the switching of cameras. That to me is the only thing I ever want to use it for.

00:29:57 ◼   ► It's just to swipe to switch from the 1x to 2x to 5x and the selfie camera.

00:30:02 ◼   ► I think that is a great feature and that is it for me.

00:30:08 ◼   ► My take is that the camera control settings are better than camera control itself.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Yeah, they got lots of options, right?

00:30:17 ◼   ► But they are scattered across the settings app in a bunch of different places.

00:30:21 ◼   ► Yeah, some of them are in display, some of them are in camera.

00:30:26 ◼   ► I mean, but that's I guess kind of fitting for the complexity of camera control.

00:30:30 ◼   ► Right, feature complex settings to find.

00:30:33 ◼   ► That's what they say.

00:30:34 ◼   ► There is now the ability to share an AirTag with selected airlines to locate your luggage.

00:30:42 ◼   ► Yes.

00:30:43 ◼   ► And I think Mike, you have thoughts about this.

00:30:46 ◼   ► Yeah, so the way this works is you like how there is the new sharing of items, right?

00:30:52 ◼   ► In Find My.

00:30:53 ◼   ► This will allow you, and there is a bunch of airlines that have opted in.

00:30:56 ◼   ► Or you can choose to share it with an individual for a set period of time.

00:31:00 ◼   ► So essentially, if your bag is lost and you have an AirTag, you can go to the baggage counter

00:31:05 ◼   ► and share that information with the person and they can then, I guess, more easily find your bag.

00:31:11 ◼   ► Because, I don't know if you've ever had this happen to you, you arrive at the airport

00:31:15 ◼   ► and your bag doesn't come out of the baggage carousel and it's always like this could take up to an hour to get your bag.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And I think part of it is finding your bag is complicated even though it's in the system because lots of bags.

00:31:26 ◼   ► Maybe this will help that.

00:31:27 ◼   ► But I just had this happen to me when I was on my way home from the podcast.

00:31:30 ◼   ► I was going through Chicago and I wasn't flying the same day.

00:31:35 ◼   ► For some reason, the airline took it upon themselves to check my bag to my flight the next day.

00:31:43 ◼   ► Now, this was not a thing I wanted, nor was it a thing I asked for or anybody told me they would do.

00:31:49 ◼   ► And when I went and spoke to the person at the desk, they were like, "Yeah, they shouldn't really have done that."

00:31:57 ◼   ► I was like, "Great. Can I get my bag, please?"

00:31:59 ◼   ► And they were like, "Yeah, but it could take like an hour."

00:32:01 ◼   ► I'm like, "All right, well, I guess I'll wait for my bag."

00:32:04 ◼   ► And I was like, "Where will it be?"

00:32:08 ◼   ► And they're like, "Oh, do you see that baggage carousel?

00:32:10 ◼   ► They have a specific baggage carousel. It will come out here."

00:32:13 ◼   ► I'm like, "Okay." So 20 minutes pass and then they know my bag is there to go retrieve it and bring it.

00:32:22 ◼   ► 20 minutes pass and I open Find My and it's on the original baggage carousel just going around.

00:32:27 ◼   ► So they didn't deliver it to the correct place.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Now, if I wouldn't have had an air tag on my suitcase, I don't even know how long it would have taken for me to find that bag.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Because at a certain point, it would have gone back into the system again because nobody picked it up.

00:32:42 ◼   ► So like air tags are great, but it would have been way easier for me if I would have been able to say,

00:32:47 ◼   ► "Hey, I have an air tag," and then share it with the person.

00:32:49 ◼   ► I'm expecting that could have solved things.

00:32:51 ◼   ► But nevertheless, this is just an endorsement from me to you.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Put air tags in your suitcase.

00:32:56 ◼   ► And my extra tip for this is one air tag on the outside, one air tag on the inside.

00:33:02 ◼   ► That's what I do with my suitcase.

00:33:04 ◼   ► Because air tag on the outside is good for indicating to someone if your bag is lost that the bag can be located, right?

00:33:12 ◼   ► That's why, therefore, someone can scan it with their phone and contact you that way.

00:33:19 ◼   ► But then the air tag has the opportunity to fall off or be broken.

00:33:23 ◼   ► So I also put one on the inside, which is for me, for finding it in case something like that happens.

00:33:29 ◼   ► So that's my top tip for air tags and suitcase.

00:33:31 ◼   ► Did I ever tell you the story of something I did a couple of years ago where I remotely rescued a dog on Instagram by teaching a famous Italian influencer how to scan an air tag?

00:33:45 ◼   ► Absolutely not. You did not tell us that.

00:33:47 ◼   ► Okay, this is something I did.

00:33:49 ◼   ► So I followed this influencer. She's very popular in Italy. She's also a TV host.

00:33:54 ◼   ► She posted the story a couple of years back in the summer. She was on vacation somewhere fancy in Italy.

00:34:03 ◼   ► I want to say Sardinia, probably.

00:34:05 ◼   ► She posted the story of this really cute dog.

00:34:08 ◼   ► And in the story she wrote, "Help, we found this dog. She has a collar and there's an air tag. What do we do?"

00:34:22 ◼   ► It's like a public story with this photo of this dog with a collar and an air tag.

00:34:28 ◼   ► And so I was like, my, you know, my Apple nerdiness kicked in immediately.

00:34:35 ◼   ► I was like, you know what?

00:34:37 ◼   ► These influencers, they never look at messages, but maybe in this case, you know, there's a dog involved and maybe this is my moment.

00:34:47 ◼   ► And so it's like I replied via DM. And mind you, this is like an influencer with two million followers. Okay.

00:34:53 ◼   ► And I have like, what, eight thousand?

00:34:57 ◼   ► Don't understate yourself Federico.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Yeah, whatever.

00:35:01 ◼   ► So anyway, I replied. I was like, okay, so what you need to do is bring your phone close to the air tag.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And if it's in lost mode, in theory, it should prompt you with a notification to open Safari.

00:35:12 ◼   ► And in Safari, it'll give you a web page with a phone number of the owner that you can call.

00:35:17 ◼   ► And sure enough, it worked. And she replied.

00:35:20 ◼   ► It's just like, thank you so much. We're going to try this.

00:35:22 ◼   ► I was like, okay, that was it. It was like my moment with an influencer who replied to me.

00:35:27 ◼   ► And she actually followed up a few minutes later with a picture of the dog.

00:35:32 ◼   ► So it's like, thank you so much. I was able to call the owner.

00:35:36 ◼   ► He just rescued the dog. Everything's okay. Thank you very much.

00:35:40 ◼   ► It's like, oh, that's, you know, my skills were useful for once.

00:35:44 ◼   ► You're changing lives.

00:35:45 ◼   ► You know, one dog at a time. Sure.

00:35:47 ◼   ► And one influencer at a time.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Sure. Yeah. Anyway, air tags. They're cool.

00:35:52 ◼   ► Air tags. They're good.

00:35:54 ◼   ► Also a couple of other things that I thought were interesting.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Media volume, being able to change the media volume from the lock screen is coming back.

00:36:01 ◼   ► It's an option in accessibility.

00:36:03 ◼   ► And there's a live activity for Safari downloads now too.

00:36:07 ◼   ► Yeah, that's nice actually. And as you know, someone who releases every year, like ebooks and large downloadable files,

00:36:18 ◼   ► I always get the emails from people because before this change, it was very confusing where the Safari downloads would go.

00:36:25 ◼   ► Sure, there's a small indicator in Safari showing you that something's actually downloading, but it's easy to miss.

00:36:31 ◼   ► It's easy to miss. And with the live activity, it's a little more in your face.

00:36:35 ◼   ► You know, that something is actually downloading.

00:36:37 ◼   ► And it also highlights the fact that maybe a few people know this, but Safari can totally download even large stuff in the background.

00:36:44 ◼   ► If you close Safari and you go do something else, even before the live activity, Safari could do it.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Now it's more obvious that it can.

00:36:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:52 ◼   ► I just like that all these things are being added into point two.

00:36:55 ◼   ► Like it's not just Apple intelligence, right?

00:36:58 ◼   ► Like the iOS 18 is being made noticeably better even though they're focused on the Apple intelligence as well.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Like I'm just, I'm happy about that. That is like the work is still happening.

00:37:10 ◼   ► It's not all been passed over to the one specific thing.

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00:39:18 ◼   ► So we were just speaking about iOS 18.2, and I was surprised when I opened our document today

00:39:25 ◼   ► to see that Federico wanted to talk about some uses of writing tools in iOS 18.2.

00:39:30 ◼   ► This is not what I would have expected from you, so I'm very intrigued.

00:39:33 ◼   ► First of all, I like to keep people on their toes.

00:39:36 ◼   ► You've got to keep guessing. You've got to zag on them.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Exactly. When people form an idea of me, that's when I know it's time to change.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Because, you know, you... No, but seriously.

00:39:47 ◼   ► The thing is, I obviously have my very strong opinions on generative AI,

00:39:54 ◼   ► on the training that was done, how it was done, and as we discussed in the previous episode,

00:39:59 ◼   ► this is not meant to be another of those political segments.

00:40:03 ◼   ► Unfortunately, by and large, the damage has been done from that perspective,

00:40:08 ◼   ► and I wish I had the strength and the power as an individual to undo what has been done, but I cannot.

00:40:15 ◼   ► And so I, for the past few months, I have found myself at this crossroads

00:40:20 ◼   ► where these features are happening.

00:40:24 ◼   ► These features are coming. Apple is working on them.

00:40:27 ◼   ► Other AI companies are continuing the rollout of their products, and there's very little I can do.

00:40:34 ◼   ► But the more... You know, having an opinion about something doesn't mean that I'm ignoring that it exists, right?

00:40:40 ◼   ► And the more I keep observing this space, and the more I keep, you know, reading and testing

00:40:47 ◼   ► and playing around with these things, the more I think I am coming...

00:40:51 ◼   ► This is like just an assumption that I have, but I think I'm coming to a conclusion in my head,

00:40:57 ◼   ► which is I fundamentally despise generative AI in the sense of software that aims to replace human creativity and human output.

00:41:11 ◼   ► There's nothing I can do about it. I really, really strongly dislike it,

00:41:15 ◼   ► especially for illustrations and images and photos, quote-unquote photos.

00:41:20 ◼   ► But at the same time, I find it more comfortable when there's an application of AI...

00:41:30 ◼   ► I believe people in this field, they call it "assistive AI" as opposed to "generative AI,"

00:41:35 ◼   ► where it's really meant to assist you with certain tasks, and you still gotta do the work.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Like, in my case, I still gotta write, I still gotta research, I still gotta do my job.

00:41:49 ◼   ► But there's essentially another tool in my toolbox that I can use.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And that makes me more at ease than, say, write an essay for me or write an email for me or create an image for me.

00:42:05 ◼   ► And so I've been looking into this sort of stuff, not just for Apple Intelligence, but for other AI tools,

00:42:11 ◼   ► though maybe we'll talk about it later.

00:42:13 ◼   ► But I thought this week, as I was working in Apple Notes, also because I gotta write about 80.2,

00:42:20 ◼   ► I thought I identified a couple of things where I could test writing tools, not for writing at all,

00:42:29 ◼   ► but for assisting me in the editing and management of a couple of notes that I had in the Notes app.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Two very different types of notes.

00:42:41 ◼   ► The first one was a list of payments for the current year, payments and related tax rates that I needed to keep track of.

00:42:52 ◼   ► And this note was like all kinds of messy. It was not properly formatted.

00:42:58 ◼   ► Some payment amounts were inserted in the note with the symbol, the Unicode symbol for "euro."

00:43:06 ◼   ► Others were just saying like "25 euros," like spelled out.

00:43:11 ◼   ► Like it was all different formatting. There were really no sections. It was all plain text.

00:43:16 ◼   ► It was a note that I understood, but it was not nice looking, and it was not neatly organized or well laid out.

00:43:27 ◼   ► And so I thought, well, let's try writing tools here.

00:43:30 ◼   ► And especially the flavor of writing tools in 18.2 with ChatGPT integration, with the ability to further refine your query,

00:43:38 ◼   ► but also to compose something using ChatGPT.

00:43:43 ◼   ► So what I did was I took this note and I said, "Can you take this entire document?"

00:43:52 ◼   ► This is actually me typing out these instructions in natural language in the Writing Tools/ChatGPT text field.

00:43:59 ◼   ► "Can you take this note and give it consistent formatting?

00:44:03 ◼   ► Make sure you always label these payments a certain way, and these other payments with a different way,

00:44:09 ◼   ► and the tax rates, put them into a different section.

00:44:14 ◼   ► All of these sections should be organized by month, and I want you to create sections for each month."

00:44:20 ◼   ► And sure enough, it did that.

00:44:23 ◼   ► Writing Tools, which ChatGPT did that, and it took the contents of my note and reformatted the note,

00:44:30 ◼   ► gave everything a consistent...

00:44:33 ◼   ► For example, euros were all transformed into the Unicode symbol for the euro currency,

00:44:38 ◼   ► and everything was organized by month, and the payment types were organized with the same order, with bulleted lists.

00:44:45 ◼   ► It was really well done.

00:44:47 ◼   ► A couple of things where...

00:44:50 ◼   ► I was impressed. I gotta say, I was impressed.

00:44:52 ◼   ► And even more interesting, though, is that I found value in being able to query that note for information later.

00:45:04 ◼   ► Like, for example, once the note was organized, I said, "Okay, can you now..."

00:45:11 ◼   ► This is in the Compose field of Writing Tools.

00:45:14 ◼   ► I said, "Can you add a section at the end where you sum up all of the payments that were labeled MAC stories

00:45:22 ◼   ► and give me the total of all of them?"

00:45:24 ◼   ► And it did that. It worked.

00:45:26 ◼   ► So basically, what I realized is that with this note that contained a bunch of numbers and a bunch of currencies,

00:45:32 ◼   ► I was basically remaking a spreadsheet without actually working with a spreadsheet.

00:45:38 ◼   ► I was doing that, but instead of entering formulas, I was asking the AI to do the calculation for me.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Which is much easier.

00:45:48 ◼   ► I mean, spreadsheets are good if you know the incantations.

00:45:52 ◼   ► Exactly. Exactly.

00:45:54 ◼   ► And in this case, I was using even the wrong terminology.

00:45:57 ◼   ► I was like, "Hey, can you sum up this?"

00:45:59 ◼   ► You know, I was not using a precise...

00:46:01 ◼   ► You're asking it like a person.

00:46:02 ◼   ► Like a person. Like a person.

00:46:04 ◼   ► But in doing this, I ran into a couple of limitations.

00:46:09 ◼   ► The first one is that Chai GPT, I don't think it has an exact understanding of the Apple Notes-specific formatting

00:46:23 ◼   ► that they want to do for headings, for example.

00:46:25 ◼   ► Yeah. Absolutely not.

00:46:27 ◼   ► When I asked it, like, "Can you make..."

00:46:29 ◼   ► So I selected some... Actually, I said, "Can you make all of the month labels proper headings in Notes?"

00:46:38 ◼   ► And it didn't know how to deal with that, so instead it entered markdown headings, like H2 markdown headings,

00:46:46 ◼   ► with two pound signs.

00:46:47 ◼   ► I was like, "No, that's not what I'm asking for."

00:46:49 ◼   ► It would be sick if Notes had markdown support.

00:46:52 ◼   ► It would be sick, but it doesn't.

00:46:55 ◼   ► And also, I realized something that I naturally gravitated towards.

00:47:02 ◼   ► It was like, "Okay, now that I can ask this thing to work with numbers,"

00:47:06 ◼   ► I was like, "Hey, can you make me a table with these numbers?"

00:47:11 ◼   ► And the problem is that you cannot.

00:47:13 ◼   ► You can turn a selection of text into a table, but you cannot ask Chai GPT in writing tools to say,

00:47:21 ◼   ► "Just take a subset of those payments and create a table at the end."

00:47:28 ◼   ► That doesn't work.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Yeah, because the table creating functionality is not Chai GPT, right?

00:47:34 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:47:35 ◼   ► Essentially, what is happening?

00:47:37 ◼   ► I agree. It would be great if they actually did talk to each other, but Chai GPT is doing its thing,

00:47:43 ◼   ► and then iOS is just pasting the results.

00:47:46 ◼   ► That is essentially what's happening, which is...

00:47:48 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:47:49 ◼   ► It's kind of janky, right?

00:47:50 ◼   ► It's kind of janky.

00:47:51 ◼   ► It's like a lot of this stuff.

00:47:52 ◼   ► Basically, every part of Apple Intelligence is currently janky in some way.

00:47:58 ◼   ► That is going on across the board.

00:48:02 ◼   ► The second note was also interesting.

00:48:04 ◼   ► The second note was something completely different.

00:48:06 ◼   ► It's a shared note that we are currently sharing with the MaxStories team

00:48:10 ◼   ► to make our selections for the MaxStories Selects Awards, which are coming back, of course, this year.

00:48:17 ◼   ► And there are sections in this note for each of us on the editorial team casting our votes for our preferences.

00:48:26 ◼   ► So there's Federico, John, Jonathan, Nilean, and Devon.

00:48:29 ◼   ► And every one of us is dipping in and out of the note, entering their selections.

00:48:35 ◼   ► Mine was empty, and so I wanted a clean start, and I saw that John already had all of the sections,

00:48:42 ◼   ► the categories, already inserted in the note.

00:48:46 ◼   ► So I placed the cursor under my name in my empty section, and I summoned the writing tools,

00:48:52 ◼   ► and I said, "Can you make me a list of the same categories of awards that John used?"

00:49:01 ◼   ► And much to my surprise, it worked.

00:49:04 ◼   ► It took all of these sections, without the actual picks, just the names of the sections,

00:49:11 ◼   ► that John used in his section, and created basically a template for me in my part of the document.

00:49:18 ◼   ► And that was nice.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Some of the section names were not properly capitalized, so I selected a couple of them,

00:49:28 ◼   ► and in the Refine Text field, I entered "Make this title case," and it did.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Like, it reformatted the selected line of text in title case.

00:49:39 ◼   ► So that was cool.

00:49:41 ◼   ► Sometimes it crashes for no clear reason, especially on the iPad, because, hey, why not?

00:49:48 ◼   ► Let's crash on the iPad.

00:49:51 ◼   ► What was also interesting is that I entered my...

00:49:54 ◼   ► So, once again, it was me doing my manual work, so I entered my preferences, my potential candidates,

00:50:02 ◼   ► and then at the end, I moved the cursor at the very bottom of the document,

00:50:06 ◼   ► and I went back to the Compose field, and I asked, "Okay, I believe my request was,

00:50:12 ◼   ► 'Who is the likely winner for each category based on the number of appearances in this note for each person?'"

00:50:20 ◼   ► And, yeah, and it did that.

00:50:23 ◼   ► It created a list of the categories with potential winners based just on number of appearances in each category,

00:50:30 ◼   ► said, I don't know, I'm going to say something that cannot possibly be true, so no spoilers,

00:50:35 ◼   ► Tweetbot, rest in peace, because it was mentioned by Federico, Devon, and John in this and this category.

00:50:43 ◼   ► So, it did that, and I thought that was useful.

00:50:46 ◼   ► Instead of me having to...

00:50:48 ◼   ► There's no creativity in me running through a list and counting appearances.

00:50:56 ◼   ► That's what computers do, take care of the busy work for me.

00:51:01 ◼   ► And so, for this type of busy work, despite the jankiness of it all, I found it kind of useful.

00:51:10 ◼   ► I'll say something that has changed recently, too.

00:51:14 ◼   ► Like, ChatGPT just got web searching capabilities.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Oh, boy, is it good. Oh, my God, it's so much better than Google.

00:51:22 ◼   ► I agree.

00:51:23 ◼   ► It's incredible.

00:51:26 ◼   ► Just how, for me, how better at searching the web that is.

00:51:30 ◼   ► And I've had similar experiences with perplexity, right?

00:51:34 ◼   ► Like, that's what it was doing before, but I like the way that ChatGPT is doing it, like, visually.

00:51:41 ◼   ► But, like, these tools... Somebody wrote into me, I haven't tried it yet, but you know Kagi?

00:51:46 ◼   ► Yeah, the search engine, right?

00:51:48 ◼   ► Yeah, they have a thing with...

00:51:50 ◼   ► They're using a bunch of things, and they're doing a search tool like this, too.

00:51:53 ◼   ► I think it's called Kagi Assistant, where if you pay for it, they're pro plan.

00:51:57 ◼   ► They have a version of this, too.

00:51:59 ◼   ► I just think, as a version of, like, web searching, these tools are just great for searching the web, I think.

00:52:07 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think you've got to hand it to ChatGPT Search.

00:52:11 ◼   ► They do a decent enough job linking to the sources.

00:52:16 ◼   ► I've also been using it.

00:52:18 ◼   ► I don't think that their search linking is any worse than Google.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Exactly. That's what I also think.

00:52:25 ◼   ► I think, just like Google can extract a snippet of information from websites, so they also extract snippets.

00:52:32 ◼   ► But what I like is that they put tappable sources, tappable links, at the end of each paragraph.

00:52:38 ◼   ► And also, at the very end, there's an overall, like, sources pop-up that you can tap, and it takes you straight to the destination web page.

00:52:47 ◼   ► And I've got to say, like, I've actually been using this as my main search engine for the past two weeks.

00:52:53 ◼   ► I actually put ChatGPT in my dock because of that.

00:52:57 ◼   ► And every web search, I'm running through ChatGPT.

00:53:01 ◼   ► And it's kind of wild how much better than Google is at doing this.

00:53:08 ◼   ► It's no surprise to me that Google must be so afraid of this product.

00:53:17 ◼   ► And I actually prefer, like, if I use this, like, I have landed.

00:53:24 ◼   ► So we've been researching buying a new car, for example.

00:53:27 ◼   ► And I have landed on so many different auto-related websites in Italy that I had no idea existed with Google.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And so I thought it was actually nice that I was using something better for search,

00:53:42 ◼   ► and I was actually clicking more to get to the original source than I was doing before with Google and their front page results.

00:53:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I do wonder if there's, I mean, I know I put this in myself, right, where, like, I think Google's AI stuff is getting criticism

00:53:59 ◼   ► because we have long trusted Google, right?

00:54:02 ◼   ► So, like, when Google gives a weird result, you're like, "Oh, come on, Google, like, I have faith in you to do this for me."

00:54:10 ◼   ► And I've had a similar experience to you where, like, I feel like I'm finding different websites and I'm doing my searches.

00:54:15 ◼   ► But that's because I inherently don't trust ChatGPT.

00:54:19 ◼   ► So, like, I'm more likely to click the sources in a ChatGPT search than I am in a Google search.

00:54:25 ◼   ► So, like, this is, like, one of these things where just, like, it's not really fair to Google in a way, right,

00:54:32 ◼   ► like, where I feel in that regard where, like, they may be giving me as good things, but I'm going and checking something else anyway.

00:54:39 ◼   ► But nevertheless, whatever.

00:54:41 ◼   ► But I do, these two, the answers that I get to these, like, so, for example, right, I'll give you a great search that I wanted to know the other day.

00:54:49 ◼   ► How long does it take a container ship to get from the UK to America?

00:54:56 ◼   ► Googling that is not great.

00:54:59 ◼   ► Like, it's just, like, I know, I know this is a bad question for Google, or at least I feel like it.

00:55:05 ◼   ► But I asked ChatGPT and it told me, it just told me, it's like, great, that's all I need.

00:55:09 ◼   ► I don't need exact.

00:55:11 ◼   ► I just want to feel like something went on the web and collected a bunch of information and gave me the answer, right.

00:55:19 ◼   ► And, yeah, and so I think these tools work good for them.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's sort of the nexus of, like, Google's problem in this new era, right,

00:55:29 ◼   ► that their tools rely on you to go get the information at the end, and then now they're trying to shoehorn, like, the responses at the top of the search results.

00:55:38 ◼   ► Like, you can see them struggling with that shift in real time.

00:55:42 ◼   ► And I think your example, like, perfectly describes what that, the heart of that issue is.

00:55:48 ◼   ► It's like, am I doing the work or is the computer doing the work?

00:55:51 ◼   ► And the trust and everything else, like, those are all elements to it.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And, you know, that will come and go over time, but I think your example is, like, perfectly succinct on why Google is facing the challenge that it is now.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:08 ◼   ► Now, you're clearly on a bit of an AI assistant kick right now, Federico, right?

00:56:15 ◼   ► I can feel this in you. You're going out there, you're seeing what the state of the art is.

00:56:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:20 ◼   ► Have you hit the thing that so many people hit, including many of my friends, where you realize just how smart Claude is?

00:56:26 ◼   ► Yes.

00:56:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:28 ◼   ► It seems to be, like, the problem with Claude, Claude isn't connected to the web, which I find to be limiting.

00:56:34 ◼   ► But then there are these other tools that can collect, connect to the web, and use Claude as the L.M.

00:56:41 ◼   ► But, like, for some reason, Anthropic haven't done it yet.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:44 ◼   ► I think it's very strange that, well, maybe strange is not the right word.

00:56:49 ◼   ► It's hard. It's a hard problem.

00:56:51 ◼   ► It's also a policy decision that Anthropic doesn't want Claude to be connected to the internet because of safety reasons, which I understand.

00:56:57 ◼   ► To be fair, I understand.

00:56:59 ◼   ► But, yeah, Claude, it's funny because I was actually listening to you and Greg discussed this, and I was like, "Hey, maybe I should try Claude and see what it's like for, like, personal research purposes."

00:57:12 ◼   ► So what I like about Claude is that it gives you the ability to create projects. So you're basically creating, like, a self-contained project, and you can give it reference files.

00:57:27 ◼   ► And so, obviously, an idea came to mind. It was like, "Hmm, if this thing really has powerful search and reasoning capabilities, what if I gave it my own iOS reviews as reference files?"

00:57:44 ◼   ► Because a problem that I've always had, and maybe a large language model will be the only solution to address this problem, is I've been writing these reviews for 10 years.

00:57:57 ◼   ► I posted a screenshot on Threads today. I did the count, the word count, of all those reviews combined.

00:58:05 ◼   ► It's over half a million words.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Woo!

00:58:09 ◼   ► For 10 years, I have written 520,000 words on iOS and iPadOS combined.

00:58:21 ◼   ► It's a staggering amount of text.

00:58:24 ◼   ► And you do this for a while, the lines get blurry in the sense of, like, "Hey, when did widgets become interactive?"

00:58:35 ◼   ► Or even more esoteric stuff, like, "Hey, when was it that accessibility was moved to the main page of the Settings app?"

00:58:44 ◼   ► Like, these minute iOS and iPadOS details that for years I had to use Google for, like, site-specific searches in Google, searching my own website, and eventually finding the page, you know, or clicking through multiple links.

00:59:02 ◼   ► I always thought, "Wouldn't it be great if I had a system?"

00:59:05 ◼   ► This was like, I was having these thoughts before large language models.

00:59:08 ◼   ► Like, wouldn't it be great if I could just query a database of my reviews to find a specific bit of information and remember when something happened?

00:59:17 ◼   ► And so I thought, "Well, I'll just give Claude the text of my reviews, and I'll start asking questions and see what it's like."

00:59:26 ◼   ► And basically, I'm basically, in a way, training the AI to reason over my own work.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Right? That was the goal.

00:59:36 ◼   ► And so, spoiler, even with the biggest model, Claude Pro, with the 3.5 SONET model, it doesn't go over...

00:59:49 ◼   ► They call it tokens, they don't call it words, but it doesn't go over 200,000 tokens.

00:59:54 ◼   ► A token is not... -Are you paying for Claude?

00:59:57 ◼   ► Right now I am, because of this, because I wanted to try this, yes.

01:00:00 ◼   ► Okay. Did it work when you paid, or was it...

01:00:03 ◼   ► Because it still doesn't work.

01:00:04 ◼   ► So, even if you pay, you cannot go over 200,000 tokens.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:11 ◼   ► Which means that my half a million words far exceed what is possible in Claude right now.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Maybe this is a long-term process, like, upload each document and say, "Take out everything except the details."

01:00:25 ◼   ► And shrink each review down?

01:00:29 ◼   ► Oh, maybe. Maybe.

01:00:30 ◼   ► Right? Just say, "Take a look at this, just create another document that is just facts, features, information."

01:00:38 ◼   ► But then again, I wouldn't be able to do what I've been doing.

01:00:41 ◼   ► So, basically, 10 reviews, I cannot upload.

01:00:46 ◼   ► It can only do three of them.

01:00:48 ◼   ► My latest three reviews, 16, 17, and 18.

01:00:52 ◼   ► That's the maximum I was able to...

01:00:54 ◼   ► Otherwise, it actually gives me an error.

01:00:57 ◼   ► It says, "Prompt is too long."

01:00:59 ◼   ► But what I've been able to do is, I've been able to ask for...

01:01:05 ◼   ► Like, "Hey, can you give me a summary of the widget changes across the latest three releases, and can you give me a list?"

01:01:14 ◼   ► And it said, "Okay, sure."

01:01:16 ◼   ► It does take about 15, 20 seconds to process, but it works.

01:01:22 ◼   ► It runs through all of my three most recent reviews, and it gives me, "Okay, iOS 16, these changes to widgets.

01:01:29 ◼   ► iOS 17, these other changes to widgets."

01:01:31 ◼   ► Then I was able to say, "Okay, can you tell me how I described these changes?"

01:01:36 ◼   ► And it gives me quotes that I used, like expressions that I used.

01:01:41 ◼   ► Or I could go like, "Hey, how did I conclude my iOS 17 review?"

01:01:49 ◼   ► And it gives me the final sentence that I used.

01:01:52 ◼   ► It's like having a superpower.

01:01:55 ◼   ► This is the work that I've done.

01:01:58 ◼   ► This is my life's work, really.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And there has never been a good search method for that work.

01:02:06 ◼   ► This system gives me a solution, but it's very costly and very expensive.

01:02:14 ◼   ► And even with the most expensive option, it still cannot handle 10 years of work.

01:02:20 ◼   ► But still, it's remarkable.

01:02:24 ◼   ► And the fact that I really like how...

01:02:28 ◼   ► In general, Clod seems to have a better way of thinking.

01:02:36 ◼   ► I don't know, they don't really think.

01:02:39 ◼   ► But it's got a better way of accepting back and forth and refining and just getting to the result you want

01:02:49 ◼   ► with fewer magical word incantations.

01:02:52 ◼   ► It fills the smartest.

01:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:02:57 ◼   ► So, yeah, eventually I would like to have something like this.

01:03:03 ◼   ► And this is what I mean by assistive, right?

01:03:06 ◼   ► The generation of this work I have done, and I will continue doing, every year,

01:03:14 ◼   ► I sit down with my iPad and I write my review of iOS and iPadOS.

01:03:18 ◼   ► Now, I'm human.

01:03:20 ◼   ► I cannot possibly memorize the entire text of 10 years of iOS reviews.

01:03:26 ◼   ► But that text is out there.

01:03:28 ◼   ► I would like to be able to search it.

01:03:31 ◼   ► Current search systems mostly suck.

01:03:34 ◼   ► This one is pretty good, but limited in terms of amount of text.

01:03:40 ◼   ► So, yeah, it's remarkable, but limited.

01:03:45 ◼   ► In Discord, we have discovered that you've basically written something the length of War and Peace.

01:03:50 ◼   ► There you go. Okay.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Which is also a great way to think about iOS.

01:03:56 ◼   ► And iPadOS.

01:03:58 ◼   ► Times of War and Times of Peace.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Very fitting.

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01:04:55 ◼   ► While Applied EV shared how they're working to bring autonomous driving vehicles

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01:05:41 ◼   ► Yesterday Mark Gurman published a report on Bloomberg

01:05:44 ◼   ► detailing the Apple Home Hub or like Home Control Center.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Not quite sure what to call this thing.

01:05:52 ◼   ► Basically what Gurman says is that this is an iPad-like device

01:05:57 ◼   ► that is designed to go on a wall or with a stand, you know, in the kitchen

01:06:02 ◼   ► or something like that that would give you control of your smart home

01:06:09 ◼   ► and your Apple ecosystem stuff.

01:06:12 ◼   ► And so this is what he says.

01:06:14 ◼   ► The company is gearing up to announce the device as early as March,

01:06:18 ◼   ► which is wild, and will position it as a command center for the home,

01:06:22 ◼   ► according to people with knowledge of the effort.

01:06:24 ◼   ► It will also spotlight the new Apple Intelligence AI platform,

01:06:27 ◼   ► said the people.

01:06:29 ◼   ► The device has a roughly six-inch screen and looks like a square iPad.

01:06:33 ◼   ► It's about the size of two iPhones side by side

01:06:35 ◼   ► with a thick edge around the display.

01:06:37 ◼   ► There's also a camera at the top front, a rechargeable built-in battery,

01:06:41 ◼   ► and internal speakers Apple plans to offer in silver and black options.

01:06:47 ◼   ► What do you think, Mike?

01:06:50 ◼   ► March is aggressive, but that is exciting to me.

01:06:54 ◼   ► I'm surprised at the March timeline.

01:06:57 ◼   ► I like a lot of the stuff that he talks about with creating a kind of --

01:07:03 ◼   ► and to be clear, what he has done with this report

01:07:07 ◼   ► is collect up some previous reporting and add to it a little bit.

01:07:10 ◼   ► So there's some details that are new, like some of the physical attributes

01:07:14 ◼   ► that you could maybe have a speaker dock,

01:07:17 ◼   ► and you could put it on the wall.

01:07:19 ◼   ► These might be separate.

01:07:21 ◼   ► Can you put it in the shower?

01:07:23 ◼   ► This is going up against the nomad.

01:07:25 ◼   ► We'll find out. I sure hope so.

01:07:28 ◼   ► And the release timeframe and stuff is new too.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Things like combining some of the best parts of the operating systems.

01:07:36 ◼   ► I liked this one thing he mentioned about that they might put some sensors

01:07:40 ◼   ► in the device, depending on how far away you are from the device,

01:07:44 ◼   ► whether you're querying it or just looking at it.

01:07:47 ◼   ► The device may be aware of people's proximity to it

01:07:50 ◼   ► and show different types of information.

01:07:53 ◼   ► This feels like a very well thought-out product,

01:07:56 ◼   ► and it seems like Apple's doing what they do best when they do it,

01:08:00 ◼   ► combining and taking from different parts of their operating systems.

01:08:05 ◼   ► So take a look from Vision OS, a little from iPad OS,

01:08:08 ◼   ► a little bit from TV OS, essentially all the same thing anyway,

01:08:11 ◼   ► and kind of being able to mold something interesting together.

01:08:15 ◼   ► I'm happy that this is the product that they're looking to do.

01:08:18 ◼   ► I'm happy that they're not starting with the really expensive one

01:08:20 ◼   ► that apparently has a robotic arm that I'm pretty sure

01:08:24 ◼   ► is Mark Gerwin's sleep paralysis demon at this point.

01:08:27 ◼   ► He loves the robotic arm.

01:08:29 ◼   ► He loves it.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Because I just feel like if he is right,

01:08:32 ◼   ► then he will rub this one in everyone's face,

01:08:34 ◼   ► because I think a lot of people think they're not going to do something like this.

01:08:37 ◼   ► But just in general, we've spoken about it before,

01:08:40 ◼   ► this is a product that I want.

01:08:42 ◼   ► I want a basic version of this,

01:08:44 ◼   ► and it feels like they're going to give me a little bit more than that,

01:08:48 ◼   ► but actually maybe a lot more than that, and that's amazing.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I am happy with just a device that has a speaker in it, like a HomePod,

01:08:54 ◼   ► that I can talk to the assistant and it will show me photos

01:08:58 ◼   ► of maybe a shared family calendar.

01:09:00 ◼   ► That is all I want, but it feels like that they're actually going to go

01:09:03 ◼   ► to the better route of like, "Hey, but what if..."

01:09:06 ◼   ► I don't know if this is a better route.

01:09:07 ◼   ► "Hey, but what if another OS?"

01:09:09 ◼   ► And they're like, "Uh-oh."

01:09:11 ◼   ► But potentially combining this and tvOS I think is great.

01:09:15 ◼   ► I think that will be good for the Apple TV too,

01:09:17 ◼   ► to maybe give it a little bit more.

01:09:20 ◼   ► Yeah, this is great, and I am very enthused by the idea

01:09:25 ◼   ► of having this in my home within five months from now,

01:09:27 ◼   ► because from the previous reporting of this product,

01:09:31 ◼   ► I figured this was probably a "this time next year" kind of thing,

01:09:36 ◼   ► rather than in five or six months from now.

01:09:40 ◼   ► I'm into it. I dig it, and I really hope that they do it

01:09:44 ◼   ► in the way that they mention.

01:09:48 ◼   ► I think having it wall-mounted is super interesting.

01:09:50 ◼   ► I think it really opens up the ability to put this by an exterior door,

01:09:55 ◼   ► or in your entryway, and yes, you can plop it down on a stand

01:10:00 ◼   ► that I'm sure will be an extra purchase.

01:10:03 ◼   ► A lot of these things are really good in the kitchen,

01:10:05 ◼   ► but they're not good just in the kitchen.

01:10:07 ◼   ► I think it's really interesting, and in the article,

01:10:10 ◼   ► it talks about having home kit security cameras up.

01:10:13 ◼   ► You could see you would maybe want this in other places.

01:10:16 ◼   ► And I think if Apple is using tvOS or some combination of things

01:10:21 ◼   ► under the hood, I think that's wise.

01:10:23 ◼   ► We don't need yet another OS.

01:10:26 ◼   ► But the thing, and I couldn't help but notice it's missing in here,

01:10:29 ◼   ► and I think a lot of other people thought about,

01:10:31 ◼   ► almost immediately was like, "What about iPad apps?"

01:10:34 ◼   ► Is this tvOS plus some widgets plus some photo slideshow stuff?

01:10:41 ◼   ► Is that enough, or do you want more full-blown apps on it,

01:10:47 ◼   ► even as an escape valve like they are on Vision OS?

01:10:50 ◼   ► I'm not quite sure, but it is interesting that Apple would be

01:10:54 ◼   ► kind of taking parts of other OSes and things they've done.

01:10:59 ◼   ► This is really close to standby mode on the iPhone, in a way.

01:11:03 ◼   ► It's all really interesting.

01:11:05 ◼   ► I want one of these things so bad.

01:11:09 ◼   ► Like, really, just the idea of something square-shaped,

01:11:14 ◼   ► it seems, that potentially has a rechargeable battery base.

01:11:19 ◼   ► Base with speakers that I can use for music,

01:11:22 ◼   ► I can use for podcasts, and ideally I can move around,

01:11:26 ◼   ► and I can also use for FaceTime calls, because it's got a camera.

01:11:30 ◼   ► And I can use for stuff like timers, check the weather,

01:11:33 ◼   ► play some music, play some podcasts, and HomeKit controls.

01:11:37 ◼   ► I mean, yeah.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Especially, I would say, especially if it's portable,

01:11:42 ◼   ► which seems a little unclear.

01:11:44 ◼   ► Germer mentions a rechargeable battery,

01:11:46 ◼   ► so why would you have a rechargeable battery unless

01:11:49 ◼   ► you're planning to make it portable around the house?

01:11:52 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, I do find it interesting that

01:11:56 ◼   ► it doesn't seem like there's going to be an App Store at launch.

01:11:59 ◼   ► Apple probably learning the lessons with Vision OS,

01:12:03 ◼   ► and being like, "Hey, we don't exactly have..."

01:12:06 ◼   ► Or iMessage, or, you know...

01:12:08 ◼   ► Or WatchOS, like, "We don't exactly have..."

01:12:11 ◼   ► You know, let's not do another half-empty App Store for now,

01:12:16 ◼   ► and let's not ask developers to create apps for yet another platform.

01:12:20 ◼   ► Do you not think they would just say it runs iPad apps?

01:12:24 ◼   ► Do you not... Why wouldn't it do that?

01:12:26 ◼   ► No, I don't think it's going to run iPad apps.

01:12:28 ◼   ► Why?

01:12:29 ◼   ► It sounds small for iPad apps.

01:12:32 ◼   ► And also square.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Like six inches is too small?

01:12:34 ◼   ► And square?

01:12:35 ◼   ► And square?

01:12:36 ◼   ► Mmm. I don't know.

01:12:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's complicated, right?

01:12:40 ◼   ► I've been... While we've been talking about it,

01:12:43 ◼   ► I've been going backwards and forwards in my head of like,

01:12:46 ◼   ► "Do I really need it to have apps?"

01:12:49 ◼   ► Like, there's some stuff, yeah, but like,

01:12:51 ◼   ► for what I want this thing for,

01:12:54 ◼   ► I think just Apple's apps isn't enough?

01:12:59 ◼   ► But then I think, like, you know, when you were talking Federico

01:13:03 ◼   ► about like, podcasts, well then,

01:13:05 ◼   ► I haven't got overcast on it, you know?

01:13:08 ◼   ► Maybe CarPlay's the answer, you know?

01:13:10 ◼   ► We've just been looking at it all along

01:13:12 ◼   ► throughout this entire episode.

01:13:13 ◼   ► This is just going to be CarPlay.

01:13:15 ◼   ► But it's complicated, right?

01:13:16 ◼   ► Because like, having another destination for apps is a bad idea.

01:13:24 ◼   ► That is a bad idea.

01:13:26 ◼   ► But having no apps is also a bad idea, right?

01:13:31 ◼   ► Because then this device will launch and like,

01:13:33 ◼   ► what, you can't use Spotify?

01:13:37 ◼   ► Right?

01:13:38 ◼   ► What, you can AirPlay?

01:13:40 ◼   ► And like, maybe that's it, right?

01:13:42 ◼   ► Maybe they're like, "Hey, well, I want to watch YouTube."

01:13:44 ◼   ► Great, just AirPlay.

01:13:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:13:47 ◼   ► And maybe that's fine, right?

01:13:49 ◼   ► Maybe that's fine.

01:13:50 ◼   ► And maybe they, you know, maybe they make it smart enough

01:13:52 ◼   ► with our friend Apple Intelligence that like,

01:13:55 ◼   ► you ask for a video and it can just work it out

01:14:00 ◼   ► by getting it from your phone for you, right?

01:14:02 ◼   ► You're like, "I want to watch 512 pixels on YouTube."

01:14:07 ◼   ► And it's just like, goes and gets me that video

01:14:10 ◼   ► and just gets, works it out, right?

01:14:13 ◼   ► Like, they say, I mean, Mark says AI in this,

01:14:16 ◼   ► but like, I'm sure Apple's going to say AI in everything.

01:14:19 ◼   ► But then also hilarious, I guess this thing runs on A17 Pro.

01:14:23 ◼   ► Which is like, way more power than they would have wanted

01:14:27 ◼   ► for this product when it was originally conceived.

01:14:30 ◼   ► So yeah, I don't know.

01:14:32 ◼   ► The app thing is complicated

01:14:34 ◼   ► because going back far enough into history, right?

01:14:39 ◼   ► We would say Apple will never launch a device

01:14:43 ◼   ► without an app store because like, of course you need apps.

01:14:47 ◼   ► But then the practicality of Apple in 2024 is like,

01:14:52 ◼   ► they're not necessarily going to build.

01:14:54 ◼   ► Like, you know, it felt like for a while it was like,

01:14:58 ◼   ► all Apple had to do was release a product

01:15:01 ◼   ► and the developers will come and they will do it

01:15:03 ◼   ► and they will make the applications.

01:15:06 ◼   ► But I just think that the last couple of years,

01:15:08 ◼   ► especially this year, have kind of suggested

01:15:11 ◼   ► that it's not necessarily as simple as that anymore.

01:15:14 ◼   ► So, yeah, so it will be a wrinkle.

01:15:17 ◼   ► That would be very interesting to see what happens there.

01:15:25 ◼   ► Yeah, well, if this product actually happens,

01:15:30 ◼   ► I do plan on getting one.

01:15:32 ◼   ► Yeah, same.

01:15:33 ◼   ► And especially if it's portable.

01:15:36 ◼   ► Now, any guesses what they're going to call this?

01:15:40 ◼   ► Is it going to be a HomePod?

01:15:43 ◼   ► I think if they don't call it the HomePod,

01:15:45 ◼   ► then they have messed up.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Like, this is HomePod.

01:15:51 ◼   ► Yeah, HomePod Max, HomePod Pro.

01:15:54 ◼   ► HomePod Pro. I could see HomePod Pro.

01:15:57 ◼   ► The name is terrible, though. HomePod Pro.

01:16:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, it's not above Apple.

01:16:02 ◼   ► We have iPad Mini parenthesis A17 Pro floating around.

01:16:05 ◼   ► True, true.

01:16:07 ◼   ► HomePod A17 Pro. There it is.

01:16:09 ◼   ► It's right in front of us the whole time.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they've got to...

01:16:14 ◼   ► I think they'll tie it in with the HomePod brand.

01:16:17 ◼   ► Even if it's not really the same thing,

01:16:19 ◼   ► but I think HomePod has the ability

01:16:25 ◼   ► to extend onto other things.

01:16:27 ◼   ► Like, if they...

01:16:28 ◼   ► You know, there's also that rumor floating out there

01:16:30 ◼   ► of like an Apple TV soundbar combo type thing.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Like, all of these things can be in the HomePod family,

01:16:35 ◼   ► just like AirPods are, you know,

01:16:37 ◼   ► a whole family of products now, too.

01:16:39 ◼   ► People understand that and get it.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Yeah, HomePod is a good name, too.

01:16:43 ◼   ► It is.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Just like in general, it's actually a good name.

01:16:47 ◼   ► Yeah, WallPod. WallPod.

01:16:49 ◼   ► That's a terrible name.

01:16:51 ◼   ► We won't be going with that one,

01:16:52 ◼   ► which means they might go with that one.

01:16:54 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:16:55 ◼   ► But, like, yeah, I think creating more products

01:16:57 ◼   ► in the HomePod family is fine.

01:16:59 ◼   ► Even if they end up calling this one the HomePod

01:17:01 ◼   ► and renaming HomePod to something else...

01:17:03 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

01:17:04 ◼   ► Or killing it.

01:17:07 ◼   ► Yeah, why is that big one still for sale?

01:17:09 ◼   ► I mean, come on.

01:17:10 ◼   ► Just get rid of that and have the HomePod,

01:17:12 ◼   ► and it's this one, and then the HomePod Mini,

01:17:14 ◼   ► and it's just a little speakey, you know?

01:17:16 ◼   ► I don't know why I called it speakey.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Yeah, that was weird.

01:17:19 ◼   ► I don't know what that's about.

01:17:20 ◼   ► I don't know what that was for.

01:17:21 ◼   ► I don't know why I said it, and I regret it.

01:17:23 ◼   ► What I hate sometimes is that the things that I say

01:17:26 ◼   ► are recorded, and they're not just things that I say,

01:17:28 ◼   ► and everyone's like, "Mike, why did you say that?"

01:17:30 ◼   ► And I'm like, "I don't know, man.

01:17:31 ◼   ► I'm tired," and then we just move on,

01:17:33 ◼   ► because now I've said it, and it's out there forever.

01:17:36 ◼   ► And people are suggesting it as a title already,

01:17:38 ◼   ► which is good.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Yeah, a little speakey.

01:17:40 ◼   ► A little speakey.

01:17:41 ◼   ► It runs a little witchy, you know?

01:17:43 ◼   ► It would run little witches.

01:17:45 ◼   ► Now, see, now come on.

01:17:47 ◼   ► Now we're talking, Steve.

01:17:49 ◼   ► I got to get one of these for work, you know?

01:17:52 ◼   ► No, but what do you think, though?

01:17:54 ◼   ► Widgets, though, would be good, right?

01:17:55 ◼   ► It'd be awesome.

01:17:56 ◼   ► I'm reaching into my desk drawer

01:17:57 ◼   ► and getting Underscore's credit card out right now.

01:17:59 ◼   ► But seriously, though, this would be a really great widget experience.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, that's why I thought about Standby on the iPhone, right?

01:18:07 ◼   ► This completely widget-powered experience that, yeah,

01:18:10 ◼   ► parts of it are a little weird to customize,

01:18:13 ◼   ► and why is that not on the iPad?

01:18:16 ◼   ► Nobody knows.

01:18:17 ◼   ► But Apple's been probing around this problem for a while,

01:18:21 ◼   ► and I think having the ability to have your own widgets on it would be huge.

01:18:24 ◼   ► You know, thinking about, like you said it, right?

01:18:27 ◼   ► Like, well, yeah, Apple's apps would be enough for me.

01:18:30 ◼   ► Like, I actually don't think that's true.

01:18:33 ◼   ► And I think if you have something like this, you would want Spotify,

01:18:36 ◼   ► you would want Ring, or you would want, you know,

01:18:39 ◼   ► whatever other security systems that are out there.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Like, this should be open to everything in the ecosystem,

01:18:46 ◼   ► and widgets are a great way to do that in a way that's not fiddly

01:18:50 ◼   ► or like complicated to use.

01:18:51 ◼   ► Like, oh, this is like some fun, colorful things to interact with,

01:18:54 ◼   ► and then I can move on, right?

01:18:57 ◼   ► No one wants to like stand in their hallway poking their wall computer, right?

01:19:03 ◼   ► This should be glanceable, quick type things.

01:19:07 ◼   ► And with interactivity and widgets, you're basically there.

01:19:11 ◼   ► I will just restate that.

01:19:13 ◼   ► So, in general, yes, this product should have more than Apple's apps.

01:19:17 ◼   ► I just mean, like, for what I personally want it for,

01:19:21 ◼   ► like, all I need is my calendar, photos, and being able to talk to it.

01:19:31 ◼   ► Like, that's kind of all I want.

01:19:33 ◼   ► And have weather.

01:19:34 ◼   ► So, I don't really need more than that personally for this thing.

01:19:38 ◼   ► Like, I wouldn't even use this for music because I have Sonos throughout the house, right?

01:19:42 ◼   ► So, like, I don't need it.

01:19:44 ◼   ► It'd be cool to control the Sonos from it, but that's probably not going to happen.

01:19:48 ◼   ► But, like, I don't -- just for me, like, where I imagine this in my life is replacing my Echo Show,

01:19:55 ◼   ► which is like the most annoying piece of technology that I still have and is in daily use, and I hate it.

01:20:01 ◼   ► But, like, you know, I want to control my home stuff, right?

01:20:04 ◼   ► Well, it's going to do that. It's in there.

01:20:05 ◼   ► And, like, you know, you said you'd need Ring, which is great,

01:20:07 ◼   ► but I don't need that. I have HomeKit cameras.

01:20:09 ◼   ► So, like, for me personally, this thing -- Apple's current existing OS ecosystem would give me all I need

01:20:19 ◼   ► to be what I want that product to be, but it is undoubtedly a better product

01:20:25 ◼   ► by being able to use the podcast app that I like, use the music app that I like,

01:20:30 ◼   ► be able to have widgets from every app that I want.

01:20:33 ◼   ► You know, like, that is a much better product.

01:20:36 ◼   ► But I would personally get by just fine with just Apple stuff, I think,

01:20:42 ◼   ► for what I can imagine I would want to use this thing for.

01:20:46 ◼   ► But they should do it anyway.

01:20:48 ◼   ► They should. Yeah, it's going to be exciting.

01:20:50 ◼   ► I think this would be a nice addition to a lot of people's setups,

01:20:57 ◼   ► because in a way, Apple has tried to make tvOS this, right?

01:21:02 ◼   ► Like, over the years, right, they've added some smart home stuff, and, like, you have the control center in tvOS,

01:21:08 ◼   ► and some of the stuff lives over there.

01:21:10 ◼   ► But you've got to be in front of your TV, and you're using the Siri remote, and it doesn't --

01:21:18 ◼   ► it's still a TV first, and they've kind of added these other things to it.

01:21:22 ◼   ► And I don't think that's really worked. Like, it's nice that that's there, but it's not super compelling,

01:21:27 ◼   ► and your TV's not in your kitchen or by your door where you would want this thing.

01:21:31 ◼   ► And so this being smaller and more flexible and building it for these sorts of interactions from the beginning,

01:21:37 ◼   ► that's all good.

01:21:39 ◼   ► I can tell by you guys, like, a lot of the home screen stuff and the screensaver stuff and all that,

01:21:44 ◼   ► like, that's great, but it's nice. My TV's not on all the time.

01:21:48 ◼   ► Yeah, same.

01:21:49 ◼   ► Like, I don't leave the TV on, right?

01:21:51 ◼   ► Like, I see these things when the TV's on and we're waiting to do something, you know?

01:21:56 ◼   ► Like, even stuff like the ringing -- like, when someone rings my doorbell, if I have the TV on, it will show them.

01:22:04 ◼   ► It's just a home kit doorbell. I've seen it once in two years,

01:22:08 ◼   ► because the likelihood of when I'm watching TV that somebody rings the doorbell is -- the overlap isn't there.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Like, I watch TV later in the evening. Like, it's not on in the daytime.

01:22:18 ◼   ► So, like, but having this one device that would just be the, like, the thing that is in the place on the kitchen counter,

01:22:26 ◼   ► like, I look at it and I know that all the stuff is there.

01:22:29 ◼   ► Like, even just, like, the home screen of it, make it the photo lock screen thing, which is doing the smart --

01:22:36 ◼   ► like, my watch, my beloved watch lock face, right?

01:22:38 ◼   ► Like, all of that stuff, they've got all of the component pieces of technology now.

01:22:43 ◼   ► It's just a case of bringing them together, which -- and that excites me,

01:22:47 ◼   ► because I think it would be a better product than the other stuff that I've done.

01:22:50 ◼   ► The last thing I'll say here is that the March timeframe, you know, we touched on it.

01:22:55 ◼   ► So, these rumors have been out there for a while. It seems like this has been kind of cooking for a bit.

01:23:01 ◼   ► March seems like an interesting time to have a new product,

01:23:05 ◼   ► but I also don't think this probably raises -- you know, rises to the level of, like, a WWDC keynote,

01:23:11 ◼   ► and maybe they want it out before the fall.

01:23:14 ◼   ► So, like, March is interesting. I could see it being -- that being true and accurate.

01:23:21 ◼   ► I saw another rumor today of, like, a potential -- that new iPhone SE with, like, the full screen one,

01:23:30 ◼   ► is also -- looks like it's potentially on track for March.

01:23:33 ◼   ► So, they may have, like, a March event where they got a few things.

01:23:39 ◼   ► I dig it. I think it could be a lot of fun.

01:23:43 ◼   ► This year in March was the iPad Pro.

01:23:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:23:47 ◼   ► No, that was May.

01:23:48 ◼   ► That was May.

01:23:49 ◼   ► This year in May is what I said, yeah. I think Zoom crackled and you misheard me. I'm pretty sure I said that.

01:23:54 ◼   ► Again, there is no recording of this, so there's no way to confirm.

01:23:59 ◼   ► There's no way to know. You can't hit back in Overcast.

01:24:02 ◼   ► It's not possible for anybody to know, so it's fine.

01:24:08 ◼   ► Well, I think that does it for this week on Connected. If you want to check out the things we spoke about,

01:24:13 ◼   ► and check out Relay's merch store. We got our holiday shirt and we've got Mike's face on a bunch of stuff.

01:24:19 ◼   ► All those links are in your podcast player and on the web at relay.fm/connected/527.

01:24:26 ◼   ► You can find all of us elsewhere on the internet.

01:24:29 ◼   ► You can find Mike across a bunch of shows here on Relay and his work at Cortex Brand.

01:24:33 ◼   ► You can follow him as @imyke across threads, Instagram, Macedon, etc.

01:24:41 ◼   ► Federico is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.

01:24:45 ◼   ► You can find him on a bunch of podcasts over there.

01:24:49 ◼   ► App Stories is a must-listen for me every week. I never miss it. It's great.

01:24:54 ◼   ► And you can find him as @viti_ci.

01:24:58 ◼   ► You can find me as @ismh86 online.

01:25:01 ◼   ► I write 512pixels.net and co-host MacPowerUsers here on Relay each and every Sunday.

01:25:06 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week, Ecamm, Squarespace, and Smaller World.

01:25:11 ◼   ► You can learn more about them in the show notes as well.

01:25:14 ◼   ► And until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:25:16 ◼   ► Adios, e churrios. Bye, y'all.