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Connected

530: I Merely Adopted the Flip Flop

 

00:00:00   [MUSIC]

00:00:07   >> From Relay, this is Connected, episode 530.

00:00:10   Today's show is brought to you by NetSuit,

00:00:12   Squarespace, SmartWorld, and ExpressVPN.

00:00:15   I'm one of your co-hosts,

00:00:17   two of them in fact this week, not three.

00:00:19   Federico Vittucci, and it's my pleasure to be joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen.

00:00:25   >> Hello, Federico. How are you?

00:00:27   >> I am doing fantastic and we are without Michael this week.

00:00:32   >> We are Sans Mike.

00:00:34   >> Yes, Sans Mike.

00:00:36   >> Sans Mike.

00:00:38   >> Yeah, we typically ask people to do something,

00:00:41   to show their appreciation and the fact that they are missing one of us on the show.

00:00:48   So I'm going to say that this time they got to do something on Blue Sky,

00:00:52   if anything, because it's the new thing.

00:00:54   >> It is.

00:00:54   >> What can be done on Blue Sky? Let's see.

00:00:58   Sans Michael, so it's December 4th.

00:01:04   We talked about music in the pro show.

00:01:09   Sans Mike, a song that you like,

00:01:18   but that you think most people would make fun of you for liking that song.

00:01:24   >> That's really good.

00:01:26   >> Yeah. For example,

00:01:30   sometimes on occasion when I'm editing some of my articles,

00:01:34   I can be surprisingly into the first couple of albums by Justin Bieber.

00:01:43   >> Okay.

00:01:44   >> The conventional wisdom would potentially make fun of me. I don't care.

00:01:50   But yeah, Sans Mike,

00:01:51   a song that you like but that you think most people would make fun of you for liking.

00:01:56   >> I feel like I should say mine.

00:01:58   >> Yeah.

00:01:59   >> I don't think this was embarrassing at the time,

00:02:05   but I think it's embarrassing now because of this artist's

00:02:10   recent public meltdowns.

00:02:19   >> Okay. But they were canceled? Okay.

00:02:22   >> Yeah. But I'm scrolling through.

00:02:27   It's probably All of the Lights by Kanye West.

00:02:31   >> Oh, yeah. I mean, yes.

00:02:34   I believe we had a conversation about Kanye at some point.

00:02:39   >> Yeah. Completely off the rails.

00:02:41   >> Completely.

00:02:42   >> From the 2010 My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy,

00:02:44   not an album you should listen to with your kids in the car.

00:02:47   >> No.

00:02:48   >> But sometimes I go back to that record.

00:02:50   >> Yeah.

00:02:51   >> His early stuff is much better than his later stuff.

00:02:55   >> Yeah. I completely agree.

00:02:57   That record was incredible.

00:02:58   It still holds up surprisingly well.

00:03:02   There's a whole, if you're interested,

00:03:04   just reading about that album,

00:03:06   the making of that album from a pure artistic perspective

00:03:09   and music engineering perspective, so fascinating.

00:03:12   Look it up on Wikipedia, how the album was produced and recorded and kept in secret.

00:03:18   For many, many months.

00:03:19   Anyway, thank you, Steven.

00:03:22   So yeah, send Mike a song that you think would be considered embarrassing today,

00:03:28   but you still like it and that's okay.

00:03:30   I see, Steven, in our follow up, that one of the,

00:03:38   let's see how I can describe it.

00:03:40   One of the best family run small businesses out of Utah,

00:03:50   I want to say, are back in our follow up.

00:03:54   >> That's right.

00:03:55   >> Yeah. So Frederico Christmas Tree is back in--

00:03:58   >> Frederico.

00:03:59   >> Frederico.

00:04:00   >> Which is how my mom says your name, which is very funny.

00:04:04   >> Frederico Christmas Tree is back.

00:04:07   >> Back.

00:04:08   >> They're operational again.

00:04:10   Christmas is approaching, and so if you want,

00:04:14   I don't mean to, like, Frederico Christmas Tree is not like a sponsor of this week's show.

00:04:20   But as we have mentioned this company many, many times before over the years.

00:04:26   But if you're looking for a really good Christmas tree

00:04:29   and you happen to be near the Frederico Christmas Tree's location,

00:04:34   I mean, just look it up on Instagram.

00:04:36   They have some really beautiful Christmas trees that they source from,

00:04:43   what did they source them from?

00:04:45   From Oregon.

00:04:46   They get the trees fresh from Oregon straight to the Frederico Christmas Tree's lot.

00:04:52   I believe we had a couple of listeners in previous years

00:04:56   actually go there and buy a Christmas tree and send us a picture.

00:05:00   So if you happen to do that again, please send us a picture.

00:05:04   And we would love to see that.

00:05:07   I don't know why exactly we started doing this years ago, but it is now a tradition.

00:05:12   And so thank you, Frederico Christmas Tree's, for obviously for keeping your company in business

00:05:19   and allowing us to mention this company every year.

00:05:21   >> That's right.

00:05:22   I don't...

00:05:23   Someone submitted it to us.

00:05:25   Maybe it was Kyle's The Gray?

00:05:27   >> Maybe.

00:05:28   >> I forget.

00:05:28   >> Their previous life, yes.

00:05:30   >> Previous life.

00:05:31   Okay, Frederico, last time we spoke about you and NotebookLM.

00:05:35   You were looking for a way or a model to feed all of your iOS reviews into,

00:05:39   so you could have your own personal database LLM of your reviews.

00:05:44   And how did it go with NotebookLM?

00:05:46   >> Yeah, it went incredibly well.

00:05:49   I looked up a lot of alternatives to Google's NotebookLM.

00:05:56   And it appears that there's nothing that gets close in terms of like,

00:06:00   first of all, it's free and allows you to upload up to 50 documents.

00:06:06   And I'll get to this in a minute.

00:06:07   And it works really well.

00:06:10   I was able to, over the past week, consistently go into NotebookLM.

00:06:16   I created a project for my iOS reviews, and it's using the 10 markdown documents that I uploaded.

00:06:21   Document length is not a problem.

00:06:25   They have a problem with the number of documents, so it's limited to 50.

00:06:29   But with my reviews, I was always able to ask questions and get detailed results with citations

00:06:37   that linked back to the original part of the document

00:06:40   that mentioned whatever result NotebookLM was bringing up.

00:06:44   Now, I'm doing a lot of research about these tools lately.

00:06:48   And NotebookLM is based on this other sort of technique that has been implemented

00:06:55   in the AI space lately, which is called RAG, and it stands for Retrieval Augmented Generation.

00:07:00   This is not something I was familiar with until a couple of weeks ago,

00:07:03   but it's basically a system that, and I'm going to oversimplify this because this is not an AI

00:07:08   podcast, and also I don't know what I'm talking about because I'm not an engineer.

00:07:10   But it's basically this system where the results can be much more accurate

00:07:16   because the large language model is effectively double checking

00:07:20   all the things that it's saying with the local external database of sources.

00:07:26   And so it considerably reduces the risk of hallucinations because it's looking up the

00:07:33   information directly into the data source, the external data set that is effectively augmenting

00:07:40   the generation of what the large language model is going to say.

00:07:45   Now, I also tried to do something else, which is I thought, well, if it works so well for all of my

00:07:53   iOS reviews, what would happen if I took my folder in Obsidian that contains all of the articles that

00:08:02   I published on Mac stories since I started using Obsidian? So for the past four years,

00:08:07   I guess, at this point. So not 15 years worth of documents, but four years worth of documents.

00:08:13   And I sure was able to upload them, but it stopped at 50 documents. So I couldn't upload to those 400

00:08:23   something files, just 50 of them. And still, even with 50 documents randomly chosen from my archive

00:08:31   in Obsidian. So there's an app review, there's a news post, there's a linked post. It's an

00:08:37   assortment of articles. Even then, I was able to ask questions like, can you tell me what some of

00:08:43   my favorite apps are? And it produced a list of apps organized by category, linking back to the

00:08:51   reviews. Like this technology is pretty wild if you are a researcher, if you are an academic, or

00:09:00   if you just want to be able to have effectively a super intelligent, fuzzy search system that lets

00:09:10   you ask questions in natural language and is fast and produces accurate results that, and this is

00:09:16   essential, that link back to the portion of the document where that information is coming from.

00:09:24   So yeah, pretty impressive results. Kind of bummed that this is the only solution for this problem

00:09:33   right now. I love to pay for a service that has support for unlimited documents and lets me upload

00:09:41   my entire backlog of articles that are published. And it's a Google product. So there's always

00:09:50   the thought in the back of my mind saying, well, they're going to shut it down in a couple of

00:09:54   months because this is an experiment. So we'll see what happens. But for now, it's very good.

00:10:01   And I also did something else, which I don't know. So you probably have seen this online,

00:10:08   notebook LM as a podcast generation. So they can generate a quote unquote podcast between two fake

00:10:19   people talking to each other about the contents of the documents that you uploaded in a project.

00:10:27   So he created this 20 minute podcast with two AI voices having a conversation

00:10:34   with each other about the timeline of iOS and the evolution of iOS through the years.

00:10:40   Now, there's a link in the show notes. You can click the link and have a listen. I mean,

00:10:47   it sounds passable enough. I mean, the AI voices are pretty good.

00:10:56   I don't know who like. Would you ever consume an AI podcast on a weekly basis? Probably not.

00:11:03   But the only argument that I've read in favor of like what like because one has to wonder,

00:11:11   why does this exist? Why is this a feature? Why is it useful? The only argument that I've read

00:11:18   is that for some people, it can be a lot easier to absorb information in this format.

00:11:24   We like people having a conversation about a topic than it would be for a variety of reasons

00:11:30   to read through a long document. Some people it's easier to listen to 20 minutes or 40 minutes of a

00:11:39   really dense information, dense conversation than it would be because it's like an attention span

00:11:46   thing or whatever. They would be to read that information in an article. I mean, it exists.

00:11:53   And unfortunately, people are going to make fake AI podcasts and they're going to distribute them.

00:12:00   And while we're still here talking in front of a microphone, but hey, whatever. Right.

00:12:07   I don't think this is coming for our jobs anytime soon.

00:12:11   I don't think so. I mean, once again, I hope not. I hope not. You know, the AI will never

00:12:17   mention for the Rico's Christmas trees. I will say we had a bit of a discussion

00:12:23   about playing this audio and we decided not to. So you can go click the link if you want.

00:12:30   Because the last time we even like not even half jokingly, like full jokingly,

00:12:37   we put AI generated content in the show. I believe it was like, wasn't it like people got real mad?

00:12:43   Yes, it was music. We had songs for the Ricky's rules. People got.

00:12:48   And it was a joke. It was a joke. OK. It was like still. So if you want, you can click on the link

00:12:53   in the show notes and, you know, listen for yourself. But yeah. OK. I I've been talking about

00:13:03   my Apple Watch problems. How have you? I spoke about it. I'll connect to last week. I spoke

00:13:08   about it in an upgrade on Monday. The struggles continue. I have made a bunch of changes to my

00:13:14   Wi-Fi network that they seem to fix it for a while and then they then they don't. So.

00:13:19   Pretty extreme battery drain on my ultra and it will drop connection to my phone. In fact,

00:13:27   the other night I was sleep tracking a word that I definitely know how to pronounce, unlike last

00:13:33   week, I learned how to say it and it stopped. It like disconnected at two thirty in the morning

00:13:40   and that's when sleep tracking stopped. It's like, OK, OK, like what are we doing? So yesterday

00:13:45   I set up a series nine, which I have for development with underscore, wiped it, set it up

00:13:53   as new on my personal phone. And I've been wearing it 24 hours. Like, I don't know if it's fixed it

00:13:58   or or or not. Like, is this an issue with older Apple Watch hardware because I'm on an ultra one?

00:14:03   Like, I just don't know what to do. I have a lot of emails from people with suggestions, which I

00:14:09   appreciate. I'm slowly working through those. It's just it's kind of frustrating, but I did

00:14:17   because I got a really good deal on Amazon, I did upgrade Mary from her older Apple Watch to a new

00:14:24   series 10. Thank you, Cyber Monday. And I gave it to her and she said, this thing is enormous. I got

00:14:31   her the smaller size. It's actually the size of the big Apple Watch in the beginning. Like,

00:14:36   that's how much they've grown over time. But her watch, since upgrading her to the 10,

00:14:43   has not exhibited any of the problems that my ultra continues to exhibit.

00:14:47   So I don't know what's going on. I'm still digging into it. It's very frustrating.

00:14:53   You don't want to get a new Apple Watch, right? Not really. I mean,

00:15:00   I'm not going to buy an ultra two, so I don't know what to do.

00:15:06   Hmm. Don't know. This is historically this is when someone from Apple and anonymous listener

00:15:14   usually swoops in and saves the day. But that hasn't happened yet. It has not happened yet.

00:15:21   I will say that I have a couple of feedback items open with logs attached to them,

00:15:27   which is like a whole thing. I don't know if you've ever done it. It's a whole thing

00:15:33   to do that. But I'm looking up the feedback number. I'm trying to log in. I have to get

00:15:36   a two verification code. Come on. One, six. I probably shouldn't read my two code.

00:15:44   No. Yeah, don't do it. OK. Submitted.

00:15:51   Wow. I can't click on anything in the feedback app.

00:15:57   Cool. My computer just beeps at me if I try to click anything. And it's frozen. OK, well,

00:16:03   I would read you the feedback number, but I can't because the feedback app is frozen on my Mac.

00:16:08   Cool. That's the show notes. Maybe or you can mention it later. You know, we have we have our

00:16:14   ways. Oh, got it. OK. Feedback one six zero two six seven nine five. It has logs from an Apple Watch

00:16:25   Ultra. Please fix this for Steven. Please take a look at it. The guy needs his Apple Watch to work

00:16:31   one six zero two six seven nine five. Yes. We have a couple of listener concerns

00:16:39   that we wanted to talk about. Well, I want to talk about you're not going to like this.

00:16:44   OK. Nathan wrote in I'm using the new Macintosh screensaver, the new one in Sequoia. It's really

00:16:52   cool with random colors. I approve. I'd I regularly come back to my Mac Mini M2 Pro with a full green

00:16:59   screen without any animation. No, no, no, no. After five to 10 minutes, it will resume the

00:17:05   animations and change color, but it always freezes on green. I would like to know if it's just me or

00:17:11   is anyone else having the same issue. Oh, you're sneaky with this follow up items. You you didn't

00:17:19   you didn't write in the subject of the main item that it was about Greengate. That's right.

00:17:24   Is this also is this also the case for the second one? Let's read the second one. This is from

00:17:32   listener Grag. So you mentioned color gamut and Siri in this week's episode, last week's episode,

00:17:38   and I can confirm that the new Siri actually uses HDR for the glow, at least on Mac OS.

00:17:44   As an eye, this is wild as an iMac owner who experiences the jittery step up, step down effect

00:17:51   when the screen switches into pseudo HDR mode. It's hard to miss the fact that invoking Siri

00:17:57   always causes that to happen. So my theory that Apple made the fancy screenshots with 16 bit

00:18:05   display P3 to show off the Siri colors was not wrong. They are actually they are actually doing

00:18:13   this. They're doing this for more than just the Siri glow effect. But yeah, interesting.

00:18:20   Nathan with the green screensaver.

00:18:24   Do we need to say anything? I mean, let us know. Let us know if you're seeing this.

00:18:31   Let us know. OK, more more green follow up incoming. OK, it never ends.

00:18:40   This episode of Connected is brought to you by NetSuite. What does the future hold for businesses?

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00:19:33   time looking backward and more time on what's next. Having a single source of truth is huge when making

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00:19:55   opportunities. And speaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI today at NetSuite.com/Connected.

00:20:04   That's N-E-T-S-U-I-T-E. NetSuite.com/Connected. Our thanks to NetSuite for the support of the show

00:20:14   and all of Relay. I also have some follow out because Mike has been off. I've been just like

00:20:23   making the rounds on Relay. Upgrade 540, I joined Jason to talk about things. I was listening before

00:20:31   sitting down to record this episode. So yeah, pretty good episode. Do you know that upgrade

00:20:36   according to Spotify wrapped because I'm also using Spotify to listen to podcasts.

00:20:39   Upgrade is my podcast of the year. All right. Yeah, I don't miss I don't miss any episodes like

00:20:49   straight to the top of my inbox. And I really love the show. So you should listen to it because

00:20:56   Steven is a very good replacement for Mike on the show. We're basically interchangeable. The thing

00:21:02   that I've realized is I'm the same way. I don't miss an episode of Upgrade. And I realized when

00:21:06   it came out Monday evening, I was like, oh, I can't listen to this. I was on it. It's always

00:21:11   a bummer. Yeah, it's kind of thrown off my podcast listening this week. Honestly, it's a bit strange.

00:21:19   I was also on focused episode 218 talking about sabbaticals David and Mike. And then part two

00:21:26   of our state of the platforms on MPU came out on Sunday. Very happy with that. But the biggest news

00:21:32   Yes. in podcast land. Tell us what your NPC co host are up to. So MPC next portable console. It's my

00:21:41   show about portable gaming and handhelds. My two co hosts. So OTJ, John Boris and Brandon Bigley.

00:21:51   The boys are going to Vegas for CES 2025. They are going together. They got a media pass for CES

00:22:03   and they will be trying all the weird half broken vaporware handhelds and some of them actually real

00:22:12   and weird accessories that will be shown off at CES. John has plans to take videos of everything.

00:22:22   We still have to decide how to properly cover their experience, their daily experience at

00:22:29   MPC. Maybe we're going to do some some YouTube videos. We'll see. Also, depending on actually

00:22:36   how many gaming related announcements we'll see at CES. But we usually do. And it's widely expected

00:22:43   that we're going to see. I don't know how plugged into the whole portable gaming scene you are,

00:22:47   Steven. You probably aren't. But anyway, there's this there's this portable PC handhelds, right?

00:22:56   Like the Asus makes one Lenovo makes one. And they're all running on this version of an AMD

00:23:04   chip. It's called the Z1. And they're all using this this this APU. It's like the equivalent of

00:23:11   a system on a chip. And it's widely expected that at CES AMD will show off the Z2 and the Z2 Extreme.

00:23:19   And so that's going to be exciting. We're probably going to see more handheld PCs. And so that's why

00:23:25   Brendan and John are going to be there. And of course, there's going to be all these companies

00:23:28   out of China bringing their, you know, their much lower priced handles for like emulation and all

00:23:34   that stuff to the to the to the to the show. And so we'll see. But I'm mostly excited for Brendan

00:23:42   and John to be together for a few days in Las Vegas. Yeah. Who knows what they're going to

00:23:46   who knows what they're going to do and if they will survive. Brendan will definitely survive.

00:23:52   John is John. John is more up in the air, I guess. Yeah, I agree. When I think about all of our

00:23:58   friends who could or have or might go to CES, John being there is the funniest to me for some reason.

00:24:06   Yeah. Yeah. This is not like an age thing. It's just like John. It's a vibe thing. It's a vibe

00:24:13   thing. Yeah. Like, can you picture John in Las Vegas? My only problem? No, but here's here's a

00:24:22   thought. John may surprise us because maybe he's got a dark side and maybe he was a lawyer. Maybe

00:24:30   he was a lawyer for many years and a and a bankruptcy lawyer at that. So the guy has seen

00:24:36   some stuff that's right in his previous life. And so who knows? Maybe wouldn't be a problem for John

00:24:42   to work all day and then go party hard at night because maybe in a previous life used to do that.

00:24:48   I never mentioned it and we don't know. But who knows? You know, hey, breaking news.

00:24:54   Apple released iCloud passwords for Firefox. For real? That's the whole breaking news. Did they

00:25:03   at the very least release the release candidate of 18.2? Not that I've seen. Okay. So yeah,

00:25:09   if you're a Firefox user, now you can log into your favorite websites. Yeah. Big news for four

00:25:15   people. Yeah. You know, it's also big news. The relay membership sale is still going on.

00:25:22   It's still going on and you can log into your member account using iCloud passwords on Firefox.

00:25:27   That is true. Yes, it's true. So what is this? Well, each week we do connected pro, which is a

00:25:35   longer ad free version of the show each week. This week, Federico and I explored our Apple music

00:25:42   replay and Spotify wrap results. And at the end we pick titles and do some other stuff. And you

00:25:48   can get that for 20% off until December 18th. So that makes it, you know, 20% off is a pretty good

00:25:56   deal. It's like twice as good as 10% off Federico. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. I went to college. Can you tell?

00:26:03   I can tell. So you get connected pro, but you also get a bunch of really cool other perks. You get a

00:26:09   monthly behind the scenes newsletter, some wallpapers, access to backstage and spotlight,

00:26:15   which are two members only podcasts on backstage. Mike and I talk about the business and answer

00:26:20   people's questions. And then I'll spotlight Kathy Campbell interviews, a different relay host.

00:26:26   It's a great show. I love listening to spotlight and you get access to the relay members discord,

00:26:32   which is a really awesome place on the internet. All of that 20% off until December 18th. The link

00:26:39   you want to go to is give relay.com. That's actually the first link in the show notes.

00:26:44   So go check that out. You can get it for yourself. You can send a gift to somebody else

00:26:49   or, you know, maybe you're hard to shop for. I think like Federico and I can be,

00:26:53   you know, send this link to your aunt and she'll know what to get you for Christmas. So

00:26:58   give relay.com between now and December 18th. So Steven, I'm having a bit of a crisis.

00:27:08   Okay. I'm here to help. Yeah. So I'm going to go straight to the point. Okay. And then we're

00:27:13   going to talk about it. Okay. I miss the third camera on the iPhone 16 pro. Oh no. And now let

00:27:22   me explain why I love everything about the 16 plus literally everything I love. Like I've read about

00:27:32   this two months ago. Um, I love the color. I love that it's lighter. I love that it's thinner.

00:27:39   I love that it's fun. And I don't care about the things that most people told me on social networks

00:27:48   that we're going to be a problem like, um, the bezels or the lack of promotion

00:27:55   that hasn't been a problem. But this week I realized something and then I talked about it

00:28:03   with my girlfriend and she confirmed that it's a pattern. It's a behavior that she also noticed.

00:28:10   I am taking less pictures than before. And this is a problem. I, I don't know. Well,

00:28:23   I think I know because I thought about it and I have a theory. I went to a, uh, some of our,

00:28:30   two of our best friends back in Viterbo. They had a baby last year and he turned one a couple

00:28:36   of days ago. And so we went to the, to the, you know, to the first birthday party that they,

00:28:41   that was a pretty big deal. You know, it's a, it's, it's his first birthday and you know,

00:28:48   some friends were there, family was there. It was a really nice occasion. And I noticed that I never

00:28:54   took out my phone to take pictures and Sylvia took them all with her 16 pro. And, and then she

00:29:02   mentioned like, Oh, I noticed you didn't take any pictures. Um, and so I, and that sort of had me

00:29:09   thinking like, and I started scrolling through my photos library for the past couple of months.

00:29:14   And I noticed that it was full of screen, full of screenshots and way, way fewer photos than in

00:29:23   previous years. And so I realized, huh, I love the 16 plus so much for everything else, but the camera

00:29:36   part is what gets me here. And I think it's then I sort of did some self research and sort of

00:29:45   self analysis here. I went back to photos from the years before and it turns out that much to

00:29:53   my surprise, I really relied on the five excellence way more than I thought. You didn't look at that

00:30:02   before you, before the purchase. No, I thought it's going to be, I, and I think I wrote about

00:30:07   this in the article. I thought, Oh, it's going to be fine with two X and I'm pretty sure I said,

00:30:12   worst case scenario, I'm going to get closer to my subjects. Pretty sure I said this.

00:30:16   And in practice after two months, you know, this is what I like about, like, this is what I like

00:30:23   about doing this show and sort of like publishing on the internet and then waiting a few months and

00:30:30   then following up on what you said. There's a lot of, uh, in our community, there's a lot of like,

00:30:35   Oh, you published something. Therefore it must be the law. And therefore you must also be consistent.

00:30:41   I mean, you know, these are Mr. Flip flop flip flop, right? He said, as he's getting

00:30:47   ready to flip flop. Okay. I merely adopted the flip flop. You were born in it.

00:30:53   This is the thing we both do, you know? Uh, but the thing is like, I took a look at my,

00:31:01   I took a look at my photos and I realized, Oh wait, this is full of screenshots, full of

00:31:06   screen recordings. Why am I not taking as many photos of my dogs as I used to? Why did I go to

00:31:14   a birthday party? Very nice occasion. And I never took out my phone. It's because subconsciously,

00:31:21   I know that I got this phone that I really like for like phone and productivity things and social

00:31:29   media things. But when it comes to pictures, I guess I don't. And I guess I'm, I missed the

00:31:36   16 pro max and, and it sucks. Here's the thing. It sucks because I don't want to use the 16 pro max.

00:31:48   I don't care about promotion. I don't care about the bigger screen. I don't care about the longer

00:31:53   battery life. I have been totally fine with the 16 plus, but here's the thing. Phones change every

00:32:01   year, right? And we upgrade our phones because we can, because it's what we do for a living

00:32:06   phones change, but the photos and the memories, those, if you don't capture them or gone forever.

00:32:14   Yeah. And so even though my thinking is that even though I may not like doing this,

00:32:21   I think it's worth doing the flip flop in my case, if anything, to make sure that I don't end up

00:32:28   like on Sunday, a few days ago, when I went to a really nice family gathering and I didn't take

00:32:35   any pictures because subconsciously I knew that I didn't have the good zoom and the digital zoom was

00:32:41   not going to be as good as the pictures that Sylvia was taking on her iPhone. And so I deferred

00:32:48   to Sylvia for the taking of the pictures and the saving of the memories. And that's not okay. So

00:32:54   even though I don't like the model, I would very much prefer staying on the 16 plus.

00:33:00   I got to do it for the pictures, man. Like it's, I, I, you know, longterm, like three years from now,

00:33:10   looking back, I couldn't forgive myself if I wouldn't have certain captures of certain memories

00:33:20   because I want to keep using the 16 plus because of the color and because of the thinness and

00:33:25   because of the things I like about it. And I kind of wish that I guess all this to say, I kind of

00:33:31   wish that there was a cheaper, more colorful 16 from X that didn't require getting the best

00:33:38   that didn't require getting the boring white or titanium phone. Yeah. Okay. I look, it's a silly

00:33:47   thing that it comes down to color, but I really liked the color of this phone, but it's been two

00:33:53   months and it's a problem that I don't have as many pictures as I thought. Hmm. Yeah. I agree.

00:33:59   It does. I want to play devil's advocate for a second because Kyle brought this up in discord.

00:34:05   Is there an angle where you were more in the moment rather than thinking about taking photos?

00:34:10   No, I was in the moment. I, you know, just, it doesn't take you out at the moment to just take

00:34:17   one or two photos or maybe a photo in a video when, when the kid is blowing on the birthday cake,

00:34:23   you know, but like not having it, it really sucks, you know? And, and I mean, sure. I could ask Sylvia

00:34:31   for, for the pictures and I mean, she shared them in the WhatsApp group that we have, but still,

00:34:38   you know, maybe what about a moment that I want to capture and Sylvia is not there.

00:34:44   Like I, I shouldn't have to, I shouldn't have to have a backup photographer. Yeah. Yeah. You know,

00:34:54   interesting. This is how they get you, you know, not with the color, not with the titanium,

00:35:01   not with the display that gets you with the camera. Yeah. Interesting. I have found that the, the,

00:35:11   the zoom is something that I do use quite a bit and, you know, this year my phone changed was I

00:35:18   went from the pro max to the pro size and I've been, I've been very happy with that because the

00:35:24   cameras are the same, but next year, if the pro max has a better camera than the pro,

00:35:30   I will go back up a size. Like to me, the camera is, I think for a lot of people,

00:35:35   the camera is the most important thing. So I get it. It definitely stinks. And, you know,

00:35:40   you're having to jostle things around mid year. That's never, that's never fun. But,

00:35:47   but I get it. I get it. Yeah. Yeah. So you will not find judgment for me when it comes to flip

00:35:54   flopping. Thank you. I felt, I felt a warmth coming from you as I was explaining my problem.

00:36:03   So thank you. Welcome. So welcome. Well, I guess, you'll, you'll, you'll sell off the other phone.

00:36:13   Yeah. I, I think that's what I got to do. Yeah. So we'll see. I just wanted to bring it up on the

00:36:21   show to see like as a sanity check, you know, make sure like, am I crazy for thinking this?

00:36:27   Yeah. I don't think so. Cool. Yeah. All right.

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00:38:46   So Stephen, I don't know if you heard, but in the tech industry, everyone is doing AI,

00:38:56   right? But now the hot thing are agents. Everybody is doing agents. So why are we talking about this?

00:39:07   Um, a couple of days ago, the company behind the Arc browser called Aptly, the browser company,

00:39:15   announced... Really painted themselves in the corner with that name, it turns out. Right,

00:39:20   right. I mean, I mean, you're always going to be making browsers, I guess, right?

00:39:25   Go dog. It does seem like everybody's making browsers, but we'll get to this in a minute.

00:39:32   So they announced their plans to build a new AI web browser called Dia. Is that how they're... I

00:39:45   haven't watched the video. Did they say Dia or... I believe it's Dia. Dia. Okay. Doesn't mean

00:39:53   anything. I don't know. But it's a separate browser for Mark, and it's going to be heavily

00:39:59   based on an agent. So a large language model agent, meaning agent in the sense like the

00:40:07   large language model, in addition to answering your queries via text, can also perform actions.

00:40:12   And they showed off this demo where the agent was able to draft an email with some links for

00:40:20   Amazon products. Fun fact, they showed off... I actually did watch this part of the video.

00:40:25   They showed off the agent inside the browser, sending an email to the browser company CEO's

00:40:31   wife and beginning the email with "Hi, hope things are well with you." And is that really

00:40:38   how you would email your spouse? "Hope things are well with you."

00:40:41   But still. Do you remember Mike's example from COVID of,

00:40:47   "I hope you're staying positive and testing negative"? That's what I always think.

00:40:52   Oh my god. Oh my god. In any case, they showed the browser being able to grab some product links and

00:40:59   send an email. They mentioned the browser being able to act almost independently and do things

00:41:05   in the background. Perform searches, collect links, basically do these sort of things where

00:41:14   it's actually working inside the browser and has the full knowledge of the open tabs that you have,

00:41:20   your browsing history, and is able to perform actions on those things based on your commands.

00:41:26   Now, this is the hot new thing in the AI tech space, in the large language model space,

00:41:38   for a variety of reasons, I think. It all started obviously with generative AI and the ability to

00:41:44   create pictures and now videos, and that's unfortunately continuing. These new models,

00:41:52   they have objectively advanced at an incredible pace in terms of the generation of illustrations

00:41:59   and photos. I mean, don't look at what Apple is doing with Image Playground because they are

00:42:04   effectively two years behind. The state of the art now, even though it sucks that it exists,

00:42:10   if you ask me, I think it's despicable that it exists, but objectively speaking,

00:42:13   they produce remarkable results. And OpenAI are supposed to be announcing, I guess tomorrow or

00:42:21   in a few days, the official debut of Sora, which is going to be their model to create videos.

00:42:26   It's terrible, but these tools have advanced and continue to advance. Then there's been the whole,

00:42:32   and this is still kind of in the beginning phase, of this assistive version of AI, where

00:42:39   these tools, these large language models, they're kind of pitched as a way to assist you in your

00:42:45   work. And so, use them for productivity purposes, for doing research, code. I don't know if you're

00:42:53   familiar, Steven, but there's this company called Cursor that is becoming really, really popular,

00:42:59   especially over the past year. And it's basically an IDE where it sort of writes the code for you.

00:43:04   It's very popular. I see a lot of people using Cursor these days.

00:43:08   And the next evolution of this, if you think about it, if you're using an assistive AI,

00:43:15   whenever it comes to productivity and to productivity tools, and we've seen this playbook

00:43:21   before, it's almost embedded within human nature that the next step is, "Oh, but how can we automate

00:43:31   this?" It's natural. We think of a new productivity tool, we use the productivity tool, and then we

00:43:39   wonder, "Can we automate this process?" It happened with AppleScript, it happened with Automator,

00:43:45   it happened with shortcuts. It is the course of human nature to find a new productivity system,

00:43:52   a new tool, and then to wonder, "Can we automate it?" So now, the new frontier is, "Well,

00:43:59   these assistive AI tools, what if we automated them?" And so, the way that they're doing this is

00:44:05   giving the large language model these agent capabilities where the model is able to take

00:44:11   actions and perform things on your behalf. Now, this takes different shapes and forms.

00:44:17   I have seen, and in fact have played around with, these AI web agents. It's kind of funny,

00:44:26   because when you see what they're doing, and there's a couple of services that let you actually

00:44:31   see in real time what's happening, these companies have created a cluster of virtualized instances of

00:44:40   Google Chrome. And they are running these virtual instances of Chrome in the cloud,

00:44:47   and they have these models that are using vision APIs, so image recognition, the ability to parse

00:44:54   the structure of a web page, and the natural language prompts to browse around and do things

00:45:02   for you. I played around with one of them a couple of days ago, and I asked him, "Can you

00:45:07   find the latest episode of App Stories on Apple Podcasts and get me the link for the latest

00:45:12   episode?" And you can see in real time what's going on, and it's a virtualized Google Chrome

00:45:18   window with a model that is using image recognition and parsing of the web page structure

00:45:25   and understanding of your language to browse around, open tabs, click on menus, and copy

00:45:33   links and send your response. Now, this is the cloud version. It appears that there's going to

00:45:39   be a consumer version of this trend built inside web browsers. So this is what the browser company

00:45:46   is doing. They have understood that the money is now flowing in this direction of a version of AI

00:45:55   that is more productivity-oriented, and not just that, because they did have AI with this sort of

00:46:00   thing before, with summaries and collecting of multiple sources. But the money is flowing in

00:46:07   the direction of productivity and automation based on large language models. So this is what

00:46:16   they're building. But here's the problem. They're not the only ones building this stuff. Just today,

00:46:25   I saw a link on the verge for a new browser. This is going to be, you know, if we ever do 2025

00:46:34   predictions, I can tell you there's going to be so many of these. This new surf browser, it's called

00:46:39   surf, by a startup called DETA. They're building an agent, or as they call them, agentic. That's

00:46:51   the new term that they're using. They're building a web browser with an agent inside. So it helps you

00:46:56   sort of browse around, take actions, organize, and keep track of things you want to do. But the other

00:47:03   problem, I guess the other two problems for the browser company are Google has said that they're

00:47:09   going to do this with Gemini inside Google Chrome, and OpenAI. Assuming they still own Chrome, I

00:47:15   guess. Assuming that it's, you know, what are they going to call the Google Chrome company?

00:47:21   Hey, here's a galaxy brain thought for you. If Google is forced to give up Google Chrome,

00:47:29   you know what would be a really good name for Google Chrome, for, you know,

00:47:34   non Google Chrome? The browser company. But I'm just saying, I wouldn't be surprised if the

00:47:43   browser company, this is actually a thought that comes from my MPC co-host Brendan Bigley.

00:47:48   I wouldn't be surprised if this pivot by the browser company is a plan to get acquired.

00:47:54   Basically, pivot until you find the thing that attracts investors that want to give you money

00:47:59   to acquire the thing. And let me be clear, this thing, a browser with an agent is the thing right

00:48:06   now. Like if you are in Silicon Valley, this is the thing. So hey, maybe they'll get acquired by

00:48:12   the non Google Chrome company in the future. We'll see. But the other the second problem. So the

00:48:18   the first problem for the browser companies that there's going to be a bunch of startups

00:48:21   doing this. The other problem is that OpenAI is expected to release a browser in 2025.

00:48:28   So chat GPT is moving from, well, if you think about it, like the biggest problem for OpenAI

00:48:35   and Anthropic are, well, we own the assistant in terms of like we have a website that you can go

00:48:41   to. We have an app that you can download, but we don't own your operating system. So short of being

00:48:48   able to release actual operating systems, these companies are probably going to do two things.

00:48:53   The first one, the more obvious and easier one, I guess, is make a browser because a bunch of people

00:48:59   live in a browser. You know, I mean, the browser is in Chrome OS's world is actually true. But

00:49:06   for most people, the browser is the OS because you're just online all day doing stuff. And the

00:49:11   OS it matters to people like us. But for most people, it doesn't. It doesn't. So the first

00:49:17   thing they're going to try is make a browser. And the second thing may be build hardware. Now,

00:49:22   that's much more challenging. But, you know, wouldn't be surprised if in the next three years,

00:49:27   OpenAI actually comes out with hardware of their own. Now, this is potentially going to be

00:49:33   problematic for for the browser company if, you know, there's going to be Chrome with an AI agent

00:49:39   inside and, you know, chat GPT becoming, I don't know, the GPT browser or something where it

00:49:45   actually does a lot of things and can perform actions for you and do the research for you and

00:49:50   all that sort of stuff. So right now, the browser company is saying Arc isn't going away. But, you

00:49:58   know, these things go. This new Dia product obviously has their attention right now. And

00:50:07   this is their pivot. I don't fully understand how and why they couldn't say Arc 2 is going to be

00:50:15   all about an agent inside the browser. There must be a reason for that in their own minds. But we

00:50:22   don't know that reason. I first of all, I wanted to know what you think. And then I have another

00:50:30   brief conversation I want to have with you about like, well, Apple's role in all of this could be.

00:50:36   But first of all, how do you feel about a little agent living in your browser organizing the KBase

00:50:43   for you? I mean, who knew that the Rabbit R1 was onto the right idea the whole time? Right?

00:50:49   It was orange and weird, but this feels very. This feels very of the moment, and I don't think this

00:51:02   is the future. Like this just feels like the late the latest like flash in the pan kind of thing.

00:51:07   And while I do think that making the browser smarter and being able to do things for the

00:51:15   users like, oh, that's interesting, but is it going to change the world? Is it is it enough

00:51:20   to build a company over like I look at this and I think you're totally right. I think the browser

00:51:25   company wants to get acquired. I do like that they throw shade like AI is not going to be in a button

00:51:30   like, OK, sick, sick burn to what's that product named the what's the AI pin humane. Yeah, you mean

00:51:40   but they also say AI is not going to be in an app. It's like, OK, you're betting against the apps,

00:51:44   like good luck with that. But the thing I'm most so this may be interesting. I don't know if it's

00:51:49   the future. The thing that I'm most sort of. Surprised by, it's like, why would the browser

00:51:58   company give up on arc, like you said, and you know, arc is not a hugely successful project. Like

00:52:07   it has a lot of weird ideas in it, but the people who love it really love it. Like in discord,

00:52:12   people are talking about it right now, like how they enjoy it does things that other browsers

00:52:17   don't do. And I don't know why you would burn the goodwill you have with your user base.

00:52:23   And yes, they say it's going to continue, but clearly don't think it's the future of the company.

00:52:29   And I don't understand why you couldn't. Have this be a feature that comes to arc first and

00:52:38   then other places or like leverage what you already have in the browser you build it just

00:52:43   that part of their strategy really leaves me scratching my head a little bit.

00:52:48   Yeah, yeah, I don't really understand this part. The other point that I wanted to raise is,

00:52:57   so if there's if this idea of agents with large language models that can do things for you

00:53:04   continues to be developed and continues like becomes a thing. Chai GPT is rumored to be getting

00:53:11   support for agents at some point. And in fact, I think just today, OpenAI announced that they're

00:53:17   going to have 12 days of announcements starting tomorrow. They're expected to announce Sora,

00:53:23   which is their text to video generative model and a bunch of other things. Maybe they will

00:53:29   show a teaser for the browser or maybe they'll show off agents, whatever. We'll see. I think

00:53:35   it's fascinating to see where Apple may be. But now maybe, well, Apple is behind in terms of

00:53:45   like just the fact that they don't have a large language model. They don't have a Siri LLM.

00:53:53   In the sense of like something you can talk to and keep the context going, have a list of

00:53:59   conversations like you can with Chai GPT or Claude. They are behind and they're rumored to

00:54:04   be announcing Siri LLM next year in iOS 19 for launch in spring 2026. So they're 18 months away.

00:54:13   So they are behind from that perspective. But I'm intrigued to see if they may be,

00:54:21   this is actually something that I'm writing about for my Apple intelligence story.

00:54:25   They may be ahead of the curve. If only by virtue of owning the operating system with their plan to

00:54:37   roll out. Apple intelligence with app intents next spring. The idea of Siri being able to

00:54:48   perform multiple actions with a natural language query using your favorite apps. That is effectively

00:54:56   almost like a mini agent. I wouldn't call it like a proper agent because the idea of agents is that

00:55:04   you set them up and you leave them running in the background performing tasks for you.

00:55:08   What Apple showed off is being able to input a command, be like, take my markdown document

00:55:17   from Ulysses and convert it to PDF using PDF expert and then send it over, send it an email

00:55:26   to Steven with a document using Spark. Like if those three apps implement the proper app intents

00:55:33   and support for Apple intelligence, that's going to be a chain of actions that could be executed

00:55:38   with a natural language query. Now that is not based on what Apple showed off, a repeatable,

00:55:46   right? A repeatable thing that can happen in the background over time. But Apple has the

00:55:52   huge advantage here of owning the operating system and owning the native apps, which is what OpenAI

00:56:00   doesn't have, which is what Anthropic doesn't have. And if agents is my angle here, if agents

00:56:07   are going to be the thing, if a Siri. So if all these pieces fall into place, if a serial

00:56:12   large language model is actually real, gets announced, ships in 18 months, if this app

00:56:19   intents infused flavor of Apple intelligence actually works, Apple also owns shortcuts.

00:56:27   And that is by definition a product that lets you set up repeatable, consistent chains of actions.

00:56:38   Between OS updates to break it, but sure.

00:56:41   Right. Set aside the performance consideration, like just theoretically speaking, they do own

00:56:47   a system that they are updating it for Apple intelligence. And it's a system that potentially

00:56:55   now we call them automations. We call them personal automations. I wouldn't be surprised

00:57:02   if they get renamed something like agents, Siri agents, and they're actually shortcuts.

00:57:08   Maybe in a couple of years.

00:57:11   Yeah. I mean, I think Apple, they do have the pieces that other companies don't have.

00:57:21   In some ways they have the best combination of pieces, but they're like the least

00:57:27   prepared to do anything with them, which is kind of unusual. I think the only other company kind of

00:57:35   in Apple's position is Microsoft. They have an OS, they have a browser, but while they do have some

00:57:43   of their own AI technologies, they also rely on open AI for a lot of things. And it will be very

00:57:50   curious to see what these honestly, like pretty in the internet age, pretty old platforms of iOS and

00:57:56   windows and Mac OS, how they evolve in this era. And so far, a lot of people just want to run a

00:58:05   browser and the OS is less important to more and more people and Apple and Microsoft seem to be

00:58:14   kind of swimming upstream against that to a degree. And it's like, does this make that,

00:58:21   like, what does it do to that? Does it make the OS more relevant for the browser company?

00:58:27   If they could build what they want to build, it doesn't because they're just going to have

00:58:30   it running in the browser and it doesn't matter what that browser is running on.

00:58:34   But if you start talking about, like you said, integrating with apps and other things beyond

00:58:40   just your browser tabs, that's when Apple does have more in its toolbox to play with. And it

00:58:47   will be interesting to see what they do there. Yeah, yeah, because basically like,

00:58:51   and I'm going to write about this, I'm going to show off some examples. The comparison between

00:58:56   what you can do with chat GPT in Siri and what you can do with a standalone chat GPT experience.

00:59:03   Just comparing the two, like the two flavors chat GPT in 18.2 built inside Siri and chat GPT

00:59:11   standalone in its own app. The differences are kind of ridiculous, like what you can do,

00:59:17   and that's due to Siri not being a persistent app, a place where you can go and find your previous

00:59:26   conversations, find your previous context, keep the conversation going over multiple days,

00:59:31   which is something that you can do with Clod, something you can do with chat GPT.

00:59:34   So the comparison, like it's not even fair, to be honest. And so they're getting some help from

00:59:40   chat GPT now to, you know, to basically chat GPT in Siri. I think the way that I describe this in

00:59:48   the article that I'm working on is basically chat GPT is now the replacement for, I found this on

00:59:55   the web for those kinds of results. And that's a much better version of that Siri gap, right?

01:00:02   So you're being unable to fulfill a request and saying, well, I found this on the web. Now,

01:00:06   at the very least, if you opt in because it's turned off at the very least, you're getting

01:00:11   an answer from chat GPT. But it's kind of funny because if anything, like on one hand, yes,

01:00:17   it's useful. And I think a lot of people are going to find it useful, especially because you can use

01:00:22   it for free. But for us, the critics, so to speak, it kind of is ironic in that it's useful, but it

01:00:32   also serves as a reminder of how limited Siri is still. Yeah. Right. So we'll see. They are behind,

01:00:41   but they have this potentially exciting technology that no one has tried because this is likely going

01:00:48   to be 18.4 next spring. They made a big deal out of telling developers last June, make sure that

01:00:57   every single functionality of your app is now an app intent because this Apple intelligence feature

01:01:02   is coming. They promised it's going to work. No one has tried it. No one has seen it in action.

01:01:08   We'll see. But yeah, I think it's going to be interesting to compare these two flavors of go

01:01:17   to the chat GPT app and have a proper conversation and have a lot of context there versus I can tie

01:01:25   together the different apps on my phone without having to build a shortcut by hand just by issuing

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01:03:05   So you mentioned iOS 18.2. We are getting pretty close to that being released and we don't have the

01:03:17   release candidate yet. I don't think as of this recording. So yeah, I'm in a bit of a difficult

01:03:22   spot. So we're gonna try a new strategy once again at Mac Stories because we like to keep things fresh

01:03:28   after 15 years. After 15 years, people shouldn't expect what they think they're expecting from me.

01:03:34   15 years, right? I mean, you and I, we've been on the internet for pretty much the same amount of

01:03:44   time. You gotta keep things fresh otherwise people get bored with you. That's right. You know,

01:03:49   I wrote perform a month just to get people excited. Exactly. So this is what we're gonna do.

01:03:55   We're gonna have a standalone article about all the changes in iOS and Apple OS 18.2 and

01:04:02   I am going to write about Apple intelligence. But with my spin on it. Because you are running it,

01:04:12   right? Can you remind people of what is your state with Apple intelligence? Yes. My state is that I,

01:04:20   for work reasons, because we gotta have capital C content on the podcasts and the website and I

01:04:32   don't want to be an old car margin not trying things. I gave up on my, on my dream to use my

01:04:41   new real Italian Apple account. I went back to my US Apple account and even though I am geographically

01:04:51   in Italy with my US Apple account and my devices region set to English, I can use Apple intelligence

01:05:01   in Italy. It is no longer geo-restricted like it used to be a few months ago. So I am using it.

01:05:10   Yeah. And I would like to have a release candidate. I was sort of expecting

01:05:15   18.2 to come out next Tuesday. Yeah. Right. We're getting pretty close to the holidays.

01:05:24   Really. Exactly. But usually we would have a race candidate by now. And if I'm not mistaken,

01:05:34   didn't Apple release a 0.2 or big 0.3 a couple of years ago in mid December? I could see a

01:05:44   December 15th or December 16th release actually. Yeah. So Ryan over at 9to5 put this together.

01:05:51   iOS 17.2 was December 11th. 16.2 was December 13th. 15.2 was December 13th. Today's the 4th.

01:06:01   So they got nine days, but I would have expected the release candidate today at the latest. Maybe

01:06:09   it's tomorrow or Friday, but that doesn't leave a lot of time. It's very strange.

01:06:18   We'll see. But yeah. So are you using Apple intelligence? First of all, do you have 18.2?

01:06:28   Yes, I have. I have 18.2 on my carry phone, which is very exciting. Sometimes things just don't work.

01:06:36   See, I have been using it and you know, the features are, are really scattershot. Like I

01:06:44   don't envy your task of like reviewing Apple intelligence because it is not a cohesive strategy.

01:06:51   It's a bunch of features scattered across the OS and sometimes in ways that don't make much sense

01:06:58   in the way that they're integrated. Well, it's easier if you straight up refuse to cover the

01:07:03   generative aspects of it. That's true. That is what I'm doing. That is true. I think the best part of it

01:07:12   to, sorry, is the Jinmoji. Like I think that's fun. I think that art style is way better than

01:07:20   image playgrounds, which does not look good and is garbagey. But the Jinmoji is fun.

01:07:28   And I've enjoyed sending those to people. There's some in our group chat floating around.

01:07:33   Yeah, those are decent. I'm not sure if I'm going to include at least a little section about those

01:07:39   in my story. But yeah, I'm trying to take in a, trying to focus in on, I mean, I did an episode of

01:07:47   App Stories about this with Jon last week. Like, much more interested in the productivity

01:07:53   angle here. Like in the actual, like, how can you actually use this? Like, why can this stuff

01:07:59   actually be useful to you when you're using your iPhone or you're working on your iPad?

01:08:05   Like that sort of stuff. And that's the question, right? Like, it's fun to make a little picture of

01:08:14   you know, somebody on a surfboard surfing on an ocean of money, you know, the day that Apple's

01:08:19   results come out. But it's probably not useful for your work. And I think most people, like,

01:08:25   through the productivity lens, it's things like the writing tools and maybe the visual search.

01:08:32   Maybe? Which I, out of all the features, those are the two that I've used the least.

01:08:40   The visual one, honestly, I forget exists. Like, I've used it a couple of times, but it has made

01:08:45   no impact on me whatsoever in terms of like sticking my phone at something like, what am I

01:08:50   seeing? Like, I just, that's not a need that I feel like I have. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I'm having fun

01:08:59   with this article on sort of trying to compare the kind of experience that you get with Apple

01:09:06   intelligence and Child JPT versus what you get with other standalone apps. And I think it's

01:09:13   going to be, I think it's going to, I am going to be interested in seeing if regular people,

01:09:21   where by regular people, I mean people who don't listen to this show or read Mac stories. It's a

01:09:28   pretty clear divide, I think. Right. Child JPT for iOS, Child JPT for iPhone is consistently the most

01:09:38   downloaded app on the app store. On a, like, and I believe just today, I'm looking up the numbers

01:09:46   now, just today, OpenAI announced they have 300 million weekly active users. Geez. So 300 million

01:09:58   weekly active users and 1 billion, 1 billion with a B, messages sent to Child JPT every day. Geez.

01:10:07   So this is from 30 minutes ago. So, you know, it's obviously the most downloaded app on the

01:10:17   app store, continues to grow. One of the, if not the fastest growing piece of software in recent

01:10:25   history. I'm skeptical that people will see the new integration in Siri as a replacement for that

01:10:35   app experience. And I think for most people will likely be a fallback of like, ah, yeah, I guess

01:10:43   Siri can now instead of saying, here's web results, I guess now at least it gives me an answer.

01:10:50   But it's no thanks to Siri, right? If anything, it damages series already lackluster reputation.

01:10:59   Exactly. Like you're only getting better because you're getting a little help from your friends.

01:11:05   Basically, you're not really smarter. You just struck a deal to get proper answers. Yeah.

01:11:13   Literally struck a deal as it turns out. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I don't think having Chai JPT in

01:11:20   Siri will change the fact that Chai JPT for iPhone is the most loaded app on the app store.

01:11:26   But regardless, I, I'm going to keep an eye, uh, you know, keeping an ear on, you know, what,

01:11:33   what people in my real life say if they noticed. Um, I mean, I guess they will notice in a few

01:11:42   months because in Italy we'll only have access to Apple intelligence at some point in the spring,

01:11:47   but it's going to be, you know, you know what, Steven, you keep an eye on regular people in

01:11:52   America. I will. You do it. I can't. I will keep an eye on America. Yeah. Thank you.

01:12:00   It's not going great. Speak of a difficult job. Yeah. That's tricky in places. Um,

01:12:10   we we've talked about this. Other people have talked about this, but it is, I think

01:12:16   the most compelling part of, of what Apple has shown so far is the new,

01:12:23   the new Siri, like where it knows about things in your apps and not having that available right now.

01:12:33   Like I think people are going to be underwhelmed definitely by the new

01:12:39   Syrian like it has that fancy animation, which may or may not be HDR, but it is the same Siri.

01:12:45   It's just falls back to chat GPT. And like, I have all that wired up. And I don't think a single time

01:12:52   I've gone to chat GPT on purpose through Siri. I just opened the chat GPT app per year, you know,

01:12:59   your observation. And so I don't, I don't really know what kind of a difference that's going to

01:13:06   make. I just, I don't know. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong. Maybe, maybe there are people who

01:13:13   have not, and I'm sure there are people who have not used chat GPT. This will be their first

01:13:16   experience with it. They may not even know it's its own app. And like, they don't really understand

01:13:22   the difference between like Siri and chat GPT. And I think some of that may be actually confusing for

01:13:27   some users. And that's something I want to keep an eye on. Yeah. I mean, there are at the very least,

01:13:33   you know, on planet earth, you know, at least, you know, six and change more billion people

01:13:41   that could potentially use chat GPT. So, and obviously like the power, the power of having

01:13:49   it built in your phone, right? There's obviously something to that, you know, and, you know,

01:13:56   knowing Apple, you know, they're going to tell you that there's going to be a splash screen somewhere

01:14:00   telling you, Hey, now you can enable this. And so, you know, that's going to catch people's attention.

01:14:05   But I still think it's not going to change the fact that a lot of people now, and I see this,

01:14:12   I see this right now. I noticed it, especially like now with the holidays and family gatherings,

01:14:19   I see chat GPT installed on people's iPhones. They don't, they don't have an account. They use

01:14:25   it for free. Some of them have an account, but they don't subscribe. But, but I see the app on

01:14:31   people's phones. They're using it. It's like, it's for a lot of people. It's like the new Google,

01:14:35   right? Yeah. Yeah. The search is compelling. Jason and I talked about that on upgrade on Monday.

01:14:41   Yeah. Oh, I still haven't gotten to that part. So spoilers.

01:14:51   I do also wonder, I mean, you have Siri, you have chat GPT, you know, I wonder what sort of average

01:14:58   users will think of the writing tools. I think the proofreading stuff is useful. Are people going to

01:15:03   like write an email and then hit the button and say, like, make this more friendly? Like, I just,

01:15:07   I just don't know. I mean, that is the one that is really hard for me. And honestly, I think probably

01:15:13   you to evaluate because we are writers for a living. And I mean, I use Grammarly as a, like a

01:15:21   grammar checking thing, but I don't let it change my tone. I leave a lot of things that Grammarly

01:15:26   says are wrong because it's the way that I write, but it is, it is interesting. I think to see what

01:15:33   people will do with those, with those sets of tools. Yeah. Yeah. So I don't know. 18.2. It's coming.

01:15:44   It's coming at some point. Maybe, probably. Soon, but not yet.

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01:17:42   I wanted to wrap up today talking about the Flex Bar. This is the most... if a product could embody

01:17:54   your persona, Steven, and it wasn't a G4i Mac, this will probably be second in line.

01:18:04   Okay, I'm not sure what that means.

01:18:06   I don't know, it's got Steven energy all over it.

01:18:10   It's got some energy. So this is... it's a Kickstarter campaign.

01:18:16   I will say right now I do not recommend backing this campaign. Don't do it.

01:18:22   It is an external touch bar. They call it a touchscreen keypad.

01:18:29   Yes.

01:18:30   That is... I mean, it looks like a touch bar. And the idea is you plug it into your Mac

01:18:35   or your PC, potentially even your iPhone and iPad. And through their software,

01:18:44   it'll be integrated with a bunch of your OS and apps. And they promised a bunch of plugins,

01:18:49   including... I'm just looking at the screenshot. YouTube, the Office apps, Adobe, the Adobe Cloud,

01:18:56   Discord. I don't know if Adobe knows about this product. My guess is that they don't.

01:19:00   They probably don't.

01:19:01   They probably don't. Using a JavaScript plug... a JavaScript based plugin SDK,

01:19:08   you can easily implement almost any functionality on the Flex Bar with your own integrated third

01:19:13   party APIs. Okay, we will see how that goes. That's all fine, I guess. Like, two things,

01:19:22   several things jump out at me. One, their goal was only $2,600. It actually was $2,569.

01:19:29   Nice. I don't know a lot about hardware manufacturing, but that doesn't seem like a lot

01:19:39   of money.

01:19:40   Can you tell me, first of all, is this... are these Flex Bars going to be refurbished

01:19:51   Touch Bars?

01:19:52   I don't know where the hardware is. I mean, surely not. I don't think there's a bunch

01:19:55   of those like floating around.

01:19:56   And they're all tied to the T2. Like, I think this is bespoke hardware.

01:20:01   This is new hardware based on the same concept as the Touch Bar.

01:20:06   Based on the idea of the Touch Bar.

01:20:09   So this is not like... because I saw like some headline saying the Touch Bar is back

01:20:12   as a Kickstarter, but this is like... this is not the Touch Bar. It's a Touch Bar for

01:20:19   the modern age, if it exists.

01:20:22   Yeah, yes, it is the idea of the Touch Bar brought back. Which, again, I don't know if

01:20:30   people want this. I mean, they have... how many backers do they have? They have some

01:20:33   number of backers, 582. So there's some people who want this. I just don't know. I just...

01:20:38   I think it's interesting that someone... that there are clear people who did like the

01:20:42   Touch Bar. Let me say first of all, and clearly people who think that this is a useful tool.

01:20:47   But like, this ain't it. Like third party hardware, third party software,

01:20:51   Windows and Mac support. Like, if you want something like this, go buy a Steam Deck.

01:20:59   Like that's the answer. Not this thing.

01:21:01   Yeah. Like, I don't understand why you would get this. And I don't mean to like...

01:21:09   to be negative about like a hardware project by... it seems like a new company. And obviously,

01:21:15   best of luck to them. But if you're looking for customization and a really vibrant and

01:21:23   healthy third party developer ecosystem, I don't know why you wouldn't get a Stream Deck.

01:21:29   Because maybe it's not as compact as a thin Touch Bar that you can place somewhere on

01:21:35   your desk. Sure. But it seems to me like this product is trying to solve the same problem

01:21:42   that is currently being solved by really popular, inexpensive hardware by a company with a proven

01:21:49   track record and a really vibrant third party marketplace for integrations.

01:21:55   And so, I mean, it almost reads to me as a meme product more than anything.

01:22:05   Like, oh, yeah, it's look, we're bringing back the Touch Bar, you know?

01:22:10   Yeah. Yeah, maybe. It's just it made the rounds in the Apple world so fiercely yesterday,

01:22:19   which I think they launched like two days ago. It's a very young campaign. And clearly,

01:22:27   they're leaning into that, right? Like, oh, we're bringing the Touch Bar back. That's what

01:22:30   they want people to consider. And like, too, like, I got an email from somebody like, maybe

01:22:34   I was a little harsh on this in my blog post, but I don't mean these folks any like ill will like,

01:22:39   you know, go out and try things. This just doesn't seem like a compelling product. And it and I think

01:22:45   saying, oh, we brought the Touch Bar back is like actually kind of a really interesting but maybe

01:22:50   slightly problematic way to describe this product. I read something I forget, I think it was one of

01:22:57   the many blogs that linked to this and they were like, the Touch Bar enjoyed great software support

01:23:01   for many years like no, it didn't like, no, no third party kind of adopted it. Apple never really

01:23:08   extended what it could do. And then it went away in four or five years. And I think the stream deck

01:23:16   shows that people want something like this. I got a stream deck Excel right here under my monitor,

01:23:20   I use it all the time. And I think the form factor of the stream deck is also more compelling,

01:23:25   like this thing is going to sit flat on your desk. And it's got a USB C cable coming out the side

01:23:31   and like, you know, the stream deck is really, really nice. There's one picture or GIF, I guess,

01:23:36   on the Kickstarter page or somebody leaning it up like in the hinge of their laptop.

01:23:40   Can you imagine closing your laptop for getting it's in there? No, yeah, no, no. Game over.

01:23:45   Don't do that. So I don't know, I'm keeping my eye on it. It is interesting, but I don't think

01:23:50   it's something that is going to prove successful. I just don't I just don't see that. That happening.

01:23:58   Did you ever, you know, if you can recall, ever really use the touch bar?

01:24:05   The only thing I consistently used it for was media control and sometimes picking out an emoji.

01:24:12   But like I never got into like, oh, let me edit photos with it or use it in logic. Like it never

01:24:20   made its way into my workflows at all. I think I remember these conversations. And I also remember

01:24:26   like people doing some things like using better touch to to put together like custom buttons and

01:24:31   custom macros that you could execute from the touch bar. I did have a button that had a hotdog emoji.

01:24:36   And when you tapped it, the computer said hotdog. Nice. That's a productivity boost. I'm a developer.

01:24:42   You are. You technically are now.

01:24:46   Yeah, don't don't put a touch bar in Widgetsmith, please. I will do my best. You know,

01:24:55   one may just fall in there. You may be tempted to do it, but don't do it. Yeah.

01:25:00   I don't know. Just quarter soaps and Xcode. What is this? As an iPad user. So the touch bar does

01:25:09   live on inside car kind of. Is this still in there? I don't even actually know. I think it is.

01:25:15   I think it is. Yeah. But like as an iPad user, like it's something like this, like physical

01:25:18   controls. Interesting to you or like the media playback on the keyboard enough is actually a

01:25:26   good question, because like thank you. That's just a few. Yeah, you're welcome. You do have those

01:25:32   on occasion. A few weeks ago, I went down this rabbit hole of. Do you know, Stephen,

01:25:41   that Elgato they made, I believe it's called Stream Deck Kit. Yes. It's a framework to support

01:25:49   a stream deck in your iPad app. I remember this. And I am fairly certain that no third party

01:25:59   developers whatsoever have added support for Stream Deck Kit on their iPad apps. I think there's

01:26:07   one or two Elgato apps that actually let you use stream deck commands with an iPad app by Elgato.

01:26:16   I think it's well, Elgato Cam and Elgato Capture or something like that. I have looked far and wide.

01:26:23   Far and wide. And I couldn't find a single result of a third party app that said on the iPad, we now

01:26:31   integrate with the stream deck. Yeah. I would love to have it when I work on my desk, like,

01:26:38   but the problem is, here's the problem. Like. I would love Obsidian for iPad to support the

01:26:49   stream deck so that I could execute specific plugins or commands just by pressing a physical

01:26:55   button at my desk when I'm working with the iPad. Well, the problem with the stream deck on the iPad

01:27:00   is that due to how driver kit is built. And due to how the I guess the stream deck SDK is built,

01:27:10   those commands are going to be app specific when you're on the home screen or when you're using

01:27:16   Safari, you won't be able to do anything because Apple is never going to support stream deck kit

01:27:22   in iPad OS. And even then, if you're a developer of an iPad app, like you're already part of a

01:27:29   niche, right? Oh, it's the iPad version of my app. So it's really quite a niche. And then to support,

01:27:36   like it would be like a niche of a niche to say, well, it's stream deck kit on the iPad. Like it's,

01:27:43   I understand why nobody's doing it. And so I am on principle very much interested. And I almost

01:27:51   bought one of those like stream deck Neo models. They're adorable. They're really cute. And I

01:27:58   almost got one, but then I realized what am I going to use it for? You know? Yeah. Yeah.

01:28:05   Let me plug in some buttons to my iPad that I carry around. It's kind of a weird.

01:28:09   It's kind of weird kind of weird thing to you. Now I am in favor of weird things. Of course.

01:28:16   But those buttons would mostly be blank when connected to my iPad. So yeah, I,

01:28:27   can you imagine though, like assign a shortcut to the stream deck on the iPad and you run a

01:28:33   shortcut. I mean, the obsidian folks who maybe consider it, you know, I could see, I could see

01:28:40   drafts also being like a really good candidate for the stream deck kit on the iPad. I could see,

01:28:47   uh, what are some automation apps? There's some programming apps on the iPad. They could

01:28:53   take advantage of it, but yeah, it's mostly going to be like apps that have like a strong

01:28:58   automation component built in. And so yeah, obsidian and drafts come to mind.

01:29:02   Well, we'll keep an eye on that. I was poking around the stream deck kit, uh,

01:29:08   get a project and it's real quiet in there. Yeah. Like I said, nobody's doing it. Um,

01:29:15   yeah, it's kind of sad. It is kind of sad. Well, I think that does it for this week.

01:29:23   If you want to find us online, uh, we're pretty easy to find. Federico is the editor in chief

01:29:29   of max stories.net. Stay tuned for his iOS 18 Apple intelligence coverage. It's going to be

01:29:35   great. Uh, and be sure to check out the huge growing family of podcasts over at max stories.

01:29:41   And if you're going to CES, keep an eye out for John. Yeah. John's going to be there. Uh, you can

01:29:47   find Federico across social media as fatigue. Uh, just search for him because social media is

01:29:54   fractured beyond all repair. You can find my writing at five 12 pixels.net and I co-host Mac

01:29:59   power users here on relay each and every Sunday. Uh, this coming Sunday, we're talking about

01:30:04   like family tech support and how to some of the most common things you may get asked

01:30:09   from friends and family. I think it was pretty good. Uh, and you can find me on social media

01:30:14   as ISMH 86. I'd like to thank our sponsors this week for making the show possible. NetSuite,

01:30:21   Squarespace, smarter world and express VPN. And until next time, Federico say goodbye.

01:30:27   I knew that you. Bye y'all.

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