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Connected

524: An Absolute Madlad Power User

 

00:00:00   [music]

00:00:07   From Relay, this is Connected, episode 524. Today's show is brought to you by ZocDoc,

00:00:13   Netsuit and ExpressVPN. I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci, and it's my pleasure to

00:00:19   introduce to this program Ricky Benchman, Mike Hurley. Hello Ricky Benchman.

00:00:25   It's so great to be here. We have now passed the halfway, like we're on the decline towards

00:00:35   Steven returning, which as I say that, I didn't mean it like that, like that the show is going

00:00:39   to get worse. I meant that like, if you imagine there was a midway peak, we have now passed that,

00:00:44   because I think what we've got next week's show and then Steven's back. So then the show,

00:00:49   maybe it's a decline now and then Steven returns and then the show bounces back, you know?

00:00:56   Right, that is a very strange way of saying, of expressing this concept.

00:01:01   I didn't do a very good job with that.

00:01:03   A decline, because you're saying it's a decline toward a happy moment.

00:01:07   Yes.

00:01:08   Which is a very strange image.

00:01:10   Yeah, it's a decline towards happiness, which is what we're all looking for.

00:01:16   Well it's, yeah, it's always darkest before dawn.

00:01:20   There you go. And so welcome to the darkness. I mean, literally today we're going to talk about AI

00:01:27   and the DMA. So I mean, I'm not wrong, but both, I know what you think. They know what you think.

00:01:37   We're not doing it in the way that you think we're doing it, but we are going to do it. But before we

00:01:41   do it, we have some follow up. So we were actually hoping that today's episode was going to be a

00:01:46   Ricky's. I was hoping that that was going to be what happened. And we had a whole system in place

00:01:52   for if there was going to be a Ricky's where we were going to get OTJ to come and he was going to

00:01:56   pick for Steven. And I was really excited about that because I was wondering what that was going

00:02:01   to be like. Because what I was wondering, and maybe we can ask Jon this, what I was wondering is,

00:02:07   would Jon have actually tried to play the game or would he try to throw the game?

00:02:14   I think Jon is an honest person. He would have played the actual game.

00:02:19   He would have played it?

00:02:20   Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:02:21   It would have been good for me though, because if you would have won,

00:02:24   oh boy, could I have called collusion, you know? Wow. That would have been fun for me.

00:02:29   Oh, we don't need to get into, we don't need to think about that.

00:02:34   You had a whole plan, didn't you? I know the two of you. I can hear it now. But anyway,

00:02:37   we're not doing it because there are, well, there hasn't been an event invite. I mean,

00:02:41   who knows? Maybe there's one and it's not until November, but basically.

00:02:45   Do you think there's going to be an event?

00:02:47   Not anymore.

00:02:48   Okay. Me neither.

00:02:50   I thought there would be. Me and Jason drafted and I said, I thought that there would be an event.

00:02:55   But an event in the sense of just like, Hey, here's a video. Like I didn't think it was going

00:02:59   to be a big song and dance, but just in the last couple of days, there have been some reporting

00:03:05   and namely from Mark Gurman, basically saying that the max is still coming. Something's still

00:03:11   happening. Um, within the next week or so the new max will come out and Apple is going to be holding

00:03:18   an event for influencers next Wednesday in LA. So my expectation now is that maybe Monday or

00:03:28   Tuesday, there will be some press releases with some max. And honestly, like if we do get the

00:03:36   Mac mini in the way that they're saying that the rumors are suggesting, I think it's sad that

00:03:40   they're not going to do something, but they could just put out a little video or whatever. Like I

00:03:45   think of, uh, remember the magic keyboard when they announced the magic keyboard in like March,

00:03:50   2020, what did you, what did you do with the magic keyboard? Because it was March, 2020. Do you

00:03:55   remember that time? Uh, they just, they just made a video and it was just Craig Federighi just like

00:04:01   showing it off. Oh my God. Yes. I completely removed that. It was the first one of these.

00:04:09   Like, cause they, they, they didn't, uh, I think, I think it was like the first and they were just

00:04:13   like, Oh, Hey, here you go. You know what I mean? And they just, they just did it. I,

00:04:18   yeah, because it was also like all the developer documentation about it afterwards for like the

00:04:23   hover stuff. And yeah, I had completely removed all of that from my brain. Oh, I mean,

00:04:31   now Zach has just reminded me that it was even weirder, which was that Apple made a video,

00:04:36   but didn't post it to YouTube, but sent the video to journalists and allowed them to post it.

00:04:43   So Jason posted it on the six colors YouTube channel and it's currently sitting at 900,000

00:04:48   views. So I think it did good for Jason, you know, they had no idea. Well, they really didn't like,

00:04:55   they really, really didn't know what they were doing at that point. Understandably,

00:04:59   it was March 18th, 2020, like it just all kicked off basically. And so I think that they were just

00:05:06   like, they were just doing, doing the best they could of what they had. And then it was

00:05:10   not just a magic keyboard, but it was also the, the fact that the iPad pro cursor existed, right?

00:05:15   Like it was the kind of the combo. And so they, they did that. That was worthy of more than just

00:05:19   what an exciting day though. Like the introduction of the magic keyboard with the trackpad. I was so

00:05:25   happy that day. I think that was the day that I bought the 2020 iPad pro, like an absolute soccer

00:05:31   and just got LIDAR and was like, I guess I had to be happy about that. Like such a,

00:05:35   such a strange combination of feelings because, you know, on the one hand, a pandemic with the

00:05:40   lockdown and immediately we really had it bad at that moment. But on the other hand, you know,

00:05:48   an iPad with a magic keyboard. I will say though that time, I mean, now I don't know where we are

00:05:52   on the podcast now, but like that time in like mid March, they still had that thing of like,

00:05:58   oh, this will fix it though. Like we'll just be at home for like a couple of weeks and like it will,

00:06:03   you know, we'll, we'll break it, you know, like, and then we'll be okay. And to my recollection

00:06:10   anyway, it got to like April, May and it was like, oh no, this is like, this ain't changing.

00:06:15   I thought it was just going to be a couple of weeks here. We just didn't shake hands and see

00:06:20   each other. Little did they know last years. Uh, yeah. Anyway, so new max next week. That's the,

00:06:31   look, that's probably what's going to happen, right? But next week's going to be

00:06:34   busy, busy. Cause we've got all the point one releases next week. Apple have got earnings

00:06:40   on Thursday. So all this stuff's got a slot in somewhere. So I don't know what we're going to

00:06:47   get, but the, if the expectation right now is that there will be max, uh, we're going to have

00:06:52   John on the show next week with us. Uh, we'll talk about them for sure. For sure. Uh, do you

00:07:00   understand? Like, so again, part of all this, like Apple have said that the Apple intelligence begins

00:07:04   next week. Um, and because the release candidate point one is out, we'll talk about later on the

00:07:09   show too, but Joanna stands sat down with Craig Federighi to kind of talk about the Apple

00:07:13   intelligence stuff. There wasn't really anything particularly new in this, like, because she kind

00:07:20   of wouldn't, but I do find it interesting at the moment to just hear them talk about Apple

00:07:26   intelligence. Like, I don't know why, but like this, like is specifically interesting to me

00:07:31   to just hear Apple executives talk about it because I kind of want to get my head around

00:07:38   where they're at a lot at a time. Cause it's such a sticky, weird thing. Um, and I guess the main

00:07:47   thing that I found interesting about it is when they were talking about, he was talking about

00:07:52   photos. I can kind of like what Apple's doing with photos and how much more the competitors are doing,

00:08:00   I guess. Um, and I found that interesting, you know, saying like stuff that we'd heard before,

00:08:04   like there was a lot of internal debate about how much they would add and they just added catch up,

00:08:10   but like what they're not going to do is add generative stuff into photos. I thought it was

00:08:15   interesting. I got some breaking news for you. Okay. 18.2 developer beta is out right now.

00:08:22   And, um, this beta includes upcoming features powered by Apple intelligence. I'm pretty sure

00:08:30   this one will have our good friend image playgrounds. So I will install this.

00:08:37   I am done with it right now, but I won't be able to use it. You won't be able to use it.

00:08:42   Uh, we were planning today to talk about my experiences of Apple intelligence in iOS 18.1.

00:08:48   So when we get to that, uh, I will also be able to talk about the horrors of 18.2.

00:08:54   Mike is going to prompt Apple intelligence to create images during the show. That's what

00:09:00   we're going to do. Mike is going to create images. English UK is now in here too. So I'll be able to

00:09:04   change. Now you can. So I'm going to start that. It's apparently 25 minutes to download, so I'm

00:09:12   going to put it on the charger and see what we get by the end of the show. I'm not even sure why I'm

00:09:17   downloading it on my phone, but whatever. There might be. There might be changes in shortcuts,

00:09:22   you know, one, one, one feature for me, one changing reminders, one changing notes. Gonna

00:09:28   make me a happy boy, a little treat, a little treat for teaching a little treat, just a little treat.

00:09:35   I have a question for you. So people who listen to, uh, my other podcast cortex, they kind of

00:09:42   know that this time of year is a state of the apps time. So it's like where we go through all

00:09:48   the apps that we use and also share our home screens and stuff. And so usually as I'm preparing

00:09:52   for this time, I'm like cleaning up my home screens and I kind of did some consolidation

00:09:58   and ended up with spots for a couple of small widgets. And I was just wondering if you had

00:10:05   any recommendations for good and cool widgets, like good ones, cool ones, or good and cool widgets.

00:10:10   What do you mean good? Just like good. Just like good. Just like good ones. Just good ones.

00:10:25   Interesting. So are you looking for something like for productivity or stuff to just, because like,

00:10:31   I'm pretty sure that one of the cool ones that I've seen, um, maybe you're using it dark noise.

00:10:38   Is that the name of the app? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. They have the white

00:10:44   noise app. They have some pretty cool, they have some pretty cool, um, home screen and control

00:10:50   center widgets that are interactive and they let you start playing, um, sounds from there.

00:10:55   See, the thing that I struggle with regarding widgets is that the type of widgets that I would

00:11:03   use all the time doesn't exist. I just want to have kind of like on Android, I think it's

00:11:09   possible. I just want to have a widget that, that I click on it and I stay on the home screen,

00:11:15   but I can type something with the keyboard. I just want to have something for quick entry.

00:11:20   And the only way that I can do it is via a shortcut. Um, that's the only way. I think you're,

00:11:27   um, I think you're unfortunately asking the wrong person because I, I, I have zero widgets on my

00:11:33   home screen. Right. That's not good. Um, and the ones that I do have in the today page,

00:11:39   like a schmuck are calendar reminders. Okay. I don't know why you're so bad at widgets,

00:11:46   but it turns out you're real bad at widgets. I am really passionate ones. If you have suggestions

00:11:52   for good and cool widgets, go to, uh, connected feedback.com and send them in. Cause I would like

00:11:58   them cause I was honestly expecting that Federico would have, uh, answers for me, but it turns out

00:12:03   he doesn't. So, uh, connected feedback.com. If you have suggestions for both good and cool widgets,

00:12:09   they must be good and cool. Um, I will give one suggestion of my own. The vitals, which is,

00:12:16   is pretty good and cool. I like it. It looks nice. And it's like, that's good information for me to

00:12:21   just have on my home screen. So that's a good and cool one. So if you have good and cool widgets

00:12:25   connected feedback.com to help your boy out. This episode of connected is brought to you by

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00:14:12   So you published your iPad mini review. So you, we spoke about the iPad mini last week,

00:14:19   and in the meantime, you collected, collected, you sent one, which you may have collected from

00:14:24   somewhere. I don't know. And then you have also reviewed it. Um, not a lot to say about the

00:14:31   product, but I think you had a very good take on its kind of role in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

00:14:39   Thank you. And to be fair, it could have been a take about any, like it could have been the same

00:14:45   take for the old iPad mini. Yeah. It just so happened that I had this idea while thinking

00:14:49   about the new one, but it just, it also applies to the previous one. I guess it's, uh, yeah. It's

00:14:56   this idea of, uh, of a third place, right? It's, uh, I basically, I thought of this old commercial

00:15:01   for the PS2 directed by David Lynch of all people. Um, the idea being that, um, there's this concept

00:15:10   in sociology of a third place, um, in the sense that most people have a first place, their home,

00:15:15   they have a second place, their work, their office, whatever they go to work. And the third places

00:15:22   I've referred to as these usually social places where people go to to socialize with other people,

00:15:27   to spend time around other people. They can be bookstores, coffee shops, bars, clubs, theaters,

00:15:33   public parks, whatever. Um, and with that commercial in the year 2000, Sony wanted to sort

00:15:39   of, uh, sort of, uh, drive home this idea of the PlayStation two, thanks to its, its capabilities.

00:15:48   It can get you all these different third places, right? Uh, because of the boundless possibilities

00:15:54   created by video games, you can be, you can be an adventurer, you can be, uh, a race car driver,

00:16:02   you can be a spy, you can be, you know, you can be whatever you want because of, uh, you can have

00:16:08   a variety of third places. And that's why that commercial and the other commercials in that

00:16:13   campaign were so strange and odd, you know, combining multiple characters, very cryptic

00:16:18   vibe, which looked edgy and cool for the time. Uh, but that was the idea. And I was thinking about

00:16:24   this in the context of, as people, we still pretty much function along those lines. We spend time at

00:16:31   home, we have our responsibilities for work, and then we just hang out. Usually with other people,

00:16:37   we, we, we pass the time, we socialize with other people. And I started thinking like,

00:16:41   how does that translate to the tech products that we use? And so I thought of this analogy,

00:16:48   you know, we have our phone, that is our primary device. Um, in a way it's our first place. We have

00:16:54   the second place that is our computer because that's where we do the work, right? Uh, most

00:16:59   people, I would say they do their work these days on a computer, whether it's a laptop or a tablet

00:17:06   or desktop, whatever. And then we like to spend time, uh, reading, watching movies, listening to

00:17:13   music, podcasts, playing video games, whatever. What device do we use for that? And I, I, and I'm

00:17:20   speaking from personal experience here, uh, just like in that Sony commercial, there's a variety of

00:17:25   third places. Uh, there's tablets. Some people have an e-reader. Others have a dedicated music

00:17:32   player. It can be a video game console. It can be, it can be a PC handheld. It can be a steam deck.

00:17:38   Uh, you know, there's plenty of options to choose from when you want to pass the time

00:17:44   with something digital, right? Um, and so that's what, that's how I started thinking about the

00:17:49   iPad mini. I don't want to use it as an alternative to my iPad pro. I couldn't, even if I wanted to,

00:17:55   um, I don't want to use it as an alternative to my phone because my phone has my SIM card in it,

00:18:00   has my phone number. That's how people reach me. That's how everything else reaches me, right?

00:18:05   I just want to use the iPad mini as, as a third device, as, as a third place for just a handful

00:18:11   of tasks that are just for me, reading, usually articles, watching my YouTube queue, watching the

00:18:18   occasional TV show, you know, just streaming something in the device that is more comfortable

00:18:23   than my iPad pro and bigger than my iPhone. So that was the idea. And, um, and yeah, not that I

00:18:31   had a lot to say about everything else because the iPad mini is so similar. I mean, it's literally the

00:18:38   same chassis with just slightly different specs inside. I mean, a lot of this job at points is

00:18:46   finding stories about the technology. That's not the technology, right? Like that's, that's the

00:18:51   work, right? Like you could just write the very tech. You could just write a very technical review

00:18:58   about this product and that could be the end of it. But, but being able to communicate something

00:19:05   more interesting is what separates somebody who's good at this. Who's and who's not in my opinion.

00:19:11   So I was very surprised. I mean, for this particular product, I was very surprised

00:19:17   that anybody could have a really interesting take, but I think that you had one just because of how

00:19:23   similar it is and like, and I don't think Apple is hiding that, right? Like this product exists

00:19:29   solely so they can have an iPad mini that has Apple intelligence on it, which I, I agree with

00:19:34   the thinking, right? Like I agree with the thinking. I would like to see them do more.

00:19:37   I believe they will do more, but for the time being, they just want to update this product

00:19:41   because it is a relatively expensive product to have a better chip in it. Um, because there are

00:19:48   so many other iPads that can support these features just because of the chip that they

00:19:52   have in them. So I'm, I'm happy that they did it. Um, the, the third place idea is really interesting

00:19:57   to me, especially in the contrast of the, um, the, the Sony ad that you're mentioning. Cause like,

00:20:04   it's more about like physical places and you talk about this a lot in the article too, right? Of

00:20:09   like the kind of the idea of this is like they're actually physical places, but our lives have

00:20:14   changed so much since that point. And really the devices are emblematic of, uh, social work. Um,

00:20:22   yes now more than ever. Right. And so I guess there is something particularly interesting

00:20:27   in the third place idea that it shouldn't, it shouldn't really have access to any of these

00:20:32   things. And I think it's the thing that you hear people talk about a lot, but not in these words,

00:20:37   whether like I want a Kindle because it has no apps on it, or I want to, you know, the, the thing

00:20:45   that every blogger has said forever in, in the history and forever into infinity, I want a

00:20:51   dedicated writing computer. Um, or similarly to like, you know, like what you're doing, like, I,

00:20:57   I want to set up an iPad that has different apps on it. It's like what I'm doing, right? We spoke

00:21:01   last week about my two iPads and one of them is set up with just a specific set of apps on it to

00:21:08   accomplish a specific type of work, which is in a physically separated part of my studio. And like,

00:21:16   that is its own place. And I feel like I was actually journaling about this today. Like I,

00:21:21   I have a different feeling when I'm working at that desk, it's actually just like very mentally

00:21:27   healthy and invigorating for me because I'm, I'm in this different place. Um, and just in general,

00:21:33   in my, in my studio, I have three distinct places, which is funny to think about. Well, four really,

00:21:40   I have a lounge area. I have my desk where I sit and work all day. I have the desk where I record

00:21:45   and then I have my product design desk. So like, I, I am definitely of the mind of like separating

00:21:50   these things out as much as you can. And I even similarly to a point have this for some apps,

00:21:57   like for example, if you take like me and Steven, we iMessage about personal stuff and we talk in

00:22:02   Slack about work stuff and we never cross them, which is, that is like a thing that I find to be

00:22:08   super valuable, um, to, to be able to maintain personal relationships with people that you work

00:22:13   with, to kind of like try and separate the work and the person a little bit. But anyway, and this

00:22:18   is like a long way around to say like, I really liked that idea. Do you, do you, I mean, obviously

00:22:23   there's more than three places now. I think that's the thing that has changed, right? Because we have

00:22:29   games consoles. Some of us have like 25 games consoles. Yeah. Um, some of us, some of us,

00:22:34   some of us, how is your second A.N. Oden? All I'm going to say is that there's going to be a

00:22:42   third one. I know there's going to be a third one. So that's, that's going to be interesting for you.

00:22:46   Um, but yeah, I, I thought it was just, I just thought it was, it's an interesting idea and

00:22:52   it is about, I think as our lives are like online lives and our real lives have become so

00:22:58   intermingled, especially in the last five years, just like in general, I think everybody feels

00:23:04   this way. And also like where you work may be different to where it was five years ago.

00:23:07   Um, the, the need to have a little bit of separation is good and I don't think it needs

00:23:14   to be a device though, right? Like I do think that Apple has done a good enough job now of being able

00:23:20   to let you customize devices with focus modes and stuff like that. Like there is an element of being

00:23:25   able to give something to give you even just one device, like a separate feel. Um, and you can do

00:23:31   certain things like an apps off in certain focus modes and stuff like that. So you could try and

00:23:36   create that third device on your iPhone or your iPad. But yeah, I think it's an interesting idea.

00:23:41   I like it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think obviously there's always, there's always going to be the

00:23:45   tension between, Oh, I want to be able to do everything on one device and be more minimalistic

00:23:52   with the, with the hardware that I use versus I just want to have dedicated devices, you know,

00:23:58   specialized devices each doing what it's supposed to do. And I don't think there's a right or wrong

00:24:05   answer. I think, and actually I, I even think it's okay to change how you feel about that

00:24:14   throughout your life. Like maybe there's a period of your life where you want to consolidate,

00:24:19   where you want to be more minimalistic and maybe there's another season of your life where you just

00:24:24   want to be, you know, you want to take the, the, the, the maximalist approach and be like, I want

00:24:29   to have a dedicated device for every single thing I do and be very specialized in the computers that

00:24:34   I use. I don't think you're supposed to, I think it's okay. It's okay to be fluid in that sense

00:24:40   with the technology that you use. And so maybe I enjoy using the iPad mini now. Maybe I want

00:24:46   in a year and that's fine. I think, I think we, we have gotten so, especially this is especially

00:24:53   a thing in the Apple community where you're supposed to make a decision and stick with it.

00:24:56   It's silly. It's a silly thing. Use whatever brings you joy in any season of your life and

00:25:03   move on if it doesn't anymore. That's what I think. Yeah. I mean, this isn't the podcast for it today,

00:25:08   but I think that in general, there is a mentality that it feels like in, in today's society that

00:25:18   any opinion that you make you're bound to for the rest of your life. Yeah. That's so,

00:25:23   you, you hinted at this in your cortex episode, like the follow-up to AI. Yeah. Uh, like it's so

00:25:28   silly. Like when the reality around you changes so quickly, why are you supposed to stay the same?

00:25:35   Yeah. Right. It's silly. So I guess social media should be ephemeral. And, uh, is I guess is the

00:25:44   statement that I'm making, which I do believe in. I kind of think any social media should be, uh,

00:25:48   something that sticks around forever. Uh, thank you, Jack Dorsey for creating that, uh, idea for

00:25:54   us that, that, that tweets would not delete. And here we are. Uh, so anyway, this iPad mini, the

00:26:02   jelly scrolling, I cannot see. Apparently the only person who can see the jelly scrolling is David

00:26:07   Pierce at the verge. Um, maybe David should look into that. Um, wifi 16 instead of wifi six,

00:26:17   Apple pencil pro. I do think that, I mean, I haven't seen one of these iPad minis yet, but I,

00:26:23   I can imagine a scenario in which it is still there, but is, is, is significantly fixed

00:26:30   because lots and lots of displays have this problem, but it's, it's, it's mostly imperceptible.

00:26:36   And if David's seeing it, maybe David is just more, um, sensitive to it. Like in a way that like,

00:26:44   you know, Steven can't use promotion kind of thing, you know, maybe some people could just

00:26:48   see it more than others, but it does seem like from reports from people who have had it and also

00:26:55   reports of reports of reports of conversations, like Jason Snell had happened to him, uh, that,

00:27:02   uh, um, that Apple seems to have addressed it, even though they're not specifically saying as

00:27:08   such, but Hey, they've made some changes to the display controller or whatever. Right. That's,

00:27:13   that's how they answer. Yes. Um, but yeah, I mean, right now this iPad mini is going to be

00:27:19   without a case. The tablet that I keep on my nightstand. Why not? Why not? Okay. So I like the

00:27:24   smart folio a lot. I just, I like it. I like it, but the way I'm going to use it, this device is

00:27:31   not going to travel. Um, it's one less thing I need to like physical thing I need to carry about,

00:27:39   I need to worry about because like when I'm going to read, I'm just going to take off,

00:27:44   take out the smart folio. Like anyway, I'm just, I'm just not going to use it. So I use my phone

00:27:49   without a case. Why should I use my iPad mini with a case? Yeah, no, I agree with that. I do think

00:27:54   iPad cases provide utility that iPhone cases don't, but if you don't feel you need it,

00:28:00   that's fine. Like in that they can stand, you know what I mean? You can like stand an iPad,

00:28:03   but if you don't need that, that's great. And then also it makes the device feel thinner if

00:28:08   you don't have a case on it. Exactly. That's nice. That's nice. Yes. Maybe put a pop socket on it,

00:28:13   you know, see how you feel. I, I actually thought about it, you know, uh, does it, uh,

00:28:19   so help me out here. Do they leave residue in the back when you stick it? You have to stick it,

00:28:26   like, right. But is it like, is it like that micro suction thing or is it actually

00:28:32   sticky glue? I have, when I was using them stuck, they were micro suction. I don't know what they're

00:28:40   using for adhesive now, because now I just use the MagSafe ones. Right. But there's no MagSafe.

00:28:48   But I don't know. They should, I'm sure that they use the micro suction,

00:28:54   but I don't know for sure. I'll look into it. I'll look into it.

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00:30:36   So, some time ago, I think it was in March, we created a new game

00:30:48   called the EUEs, where we made a selection of picks based on what we thought could happen

00:30:57   with the DMA. And we set this for, I think, a month in advance and nothing changed.

00:31:05   None of the things that we thought could change, changed. So then we were like,

00:31:10   "Oh, well, we'll just kick this can down the road and score it six months from now."

00:31:16   Those six months have passed, so we're now going to look back at our predictions

00:31:21   and see what's changed. I will put a link in the show notes to the wonderful

00:31:27   rickys.co and rickys.net, because they have, as they always do for all of our games,

00:31:34   put together a list of the picks that we made in case you want to score along at home.

00:31:41   Spoiler alert, there's only really one way of scoring any of this. And realistically,

00:31:49   the answer is none of it is being scored in a way which is good, I suppose.

00:31:56   So let's go through it. So we're going to score this about Steven, because this was

00:32:00   the agreement. We had two rounds and we had two picks each.

00:32:02   Do you want to talk about your first pick?

00:32:06   I said the CTF, the core technology fee, is considerably altered, especially for web

00:32:13   distribution.

00:32:14   So I spent a bunch of time today, Federico. I did. I spent some time on both of our behalf,

00:32:20   digging through, I had a horrible morning, digging through the support documents on the

00:32:27   developer forums and the developer website to try and see if anything had changed of any of this

00:32:33   stuff. And so this was maybe... Okay, so I found an article from Julia at Mac stories,

00:32:43   Mac rumors. It's Mac rumors, not stories. They talk about rumors, not stories. You talk

00:32:47   about stories, not rumors. A couple of quotes. So there have been changes to the CTF. The

00:32:53   CTF has, in fact, been considerably altered. First, independent and small developers who

00:32:57   are no revenue at all will not have to pay the CTF. Second, to address fears of the CTF

00:33:04   causing outrageous fees for an app that suddenly goes viral, Apple has implemented a three

00:33:10   year on-ramping process for small developers. Okay. So it has been considerably altered,

00:33:16   but... Not for... Especially for... Especially for web distribution. There have been zero

00:33:27   changes that are specific for web distribution. This is not a point. But Federico, we're not bound

00:33:37   by any rules. Well, the CTF is considerably altered, especially for web distribution.

00:33:45   The CTF has been considerably altered. I think it's a half point. But we don't have... We don't

00:33:52   do half points. There are no rules for this game. We can do whatever we want. I can give you 15

00:33:57   points for that. Okay. There are no rules. So this is half a point. It's a half point. I say

00:34:04   that's a half point. Finally I get my half point. Take your half point. You got a half point.

00:34:08   There are no rules. We established zero rules for this game. So I say that is a half point for you.

00:34:15   I've been waiting for a half point for half my life, really. I do think we used to give half

00:34:22   points, which is why we ended up getting rid of half points. Oh, the sweet scent of a half point.

00:34:27   Yeah, because there are no rules. My first pick was member of good standing, language removed.

00:34:33   So this was the idea that for web distribution, you had to be "a member of good standing" in the

00:34:38   app store. Is it still in there? Yeah. Yeah, they still talk about that. So I found this today.

00:34:46   It says to be a member in good standing of the Apple developer program for two continuous years

00:34:51   or more. This is one of the ones where I believe the EU has been like, you can't say that, but

00:34:59   nothing's changed yet because they're kind of... The last that I paid significant attention to DMA

00:35:07   stuff because I've decided to take a little bit of a mental break from that wheel because they

00:35:11   just don't find it to be very enriching. Really, it seems like that currently the EU and Apple are

00:35:17   in a bit of a... They just cracked their heads together and nothing's changed. The EU is like,

00:35:24   you're in breach of a bunch of stuff, but hasn't kind of handed out anything yet. It's the last

00:35:28   that I remember. And one of the things that they pointed to was this member of good standing thing,

00:35:33   but nothing's changed yet. And so Apple's still saying that you have to be a member of good

00:35:37   standing. So there's zero points for me. Steven said developers aren't required to use Apple's

00:35:46   scary screens for alternate payments and linking out to the web for purchase. These are still in

00:35:51   place. This is I think another thing that is still kind of being contested as to wherever they can do

00:36:00   this, but currently in the developer documentation, they still have the... I think they're called PSPs,

00:36:07   which is always funny to me. They're called PSPs. I'm trying to find what it stands for,

00:36:14   but I think it's like purchase. It's my favorite console of all time. Something. Oh, no, it's...

00:36:19   PSPs are like the payment service providers, but they're like the payment service provider screens.

00:36:25   And it still says this app doesn't support the private and secure payment system. You're

00:36:30   going to be going out to... So it's got all of that language in there still, so they haven't

00:36:34   removed those. So at the end of round one, you scored half a point. Okay, good. Nice. Round two.

00:36:42   My pick was Phil Schiller replaced as head of the initiative. No. As far as we're aware,

00:36:50   that has not happened. For all we know, Phil is still hanging in there at the DMA table.

00:36:58   I mean, at the beginning of the year, he was giving a bunch of quotes about it. We haven't

00:37:02   really heard anything about it since, but we haven't gotten anywhere so far. Okay. What did

00:37:10   you say next? Mine is the CTF is removed for fully free apps. They did that, right? We said that?

00:37:18   I mean, yeah. Half a point to you. I think it's kind of, because the language is independent and

00:37:26   small developers who earn no revenue at all will not have to pay the CTF. Okay, so somebody else...

00:37:32   It's fully removed in some circumstances, but not all circumstances. I would agree with you.

00:37:39   I think that's half a point, Federico. Half a point. I love this anarchy. Half a point.

00:37:44   I'm really great at that. I think this is fantastic. And Steven's round two was changes

00:37:50   to rules about apps being installed from alternative source. Now, here's the thing.

00:37:56   Steven's pick... I don't know why we allowed the word in this, because it's like not all what he

00:38:00   was... It does not describe what he was talking about. Today, I had to go back and listen to this

00:38:05   part of the podcast from when he made the pick. What he was talking about was... And it's funny,

00:38:11   because he made his pick and then my immediate thing was to him, what does that mean? And then

00:38:15   he explained what he actually meant. So I don't know why we just kind of let it roll the way

00:38:19   that it did. But what he was talking about is, let's say you have Delta installed, right? And

00:38:26   from the app store, and you download Alt Store, and then you download Delta, that one should

00:38:34   replace the other. That does not happen. What he wanted is that apps installed from other sources

00:38:39   could just update themselves over another app. And that seems to also not been changed at all.

00:38:45   And in fact, I found wording that said that, when they're talking about what happens if you go away

00:38:51   for a month or whatever, that you will lose your access to your applications and you have to

00:38:59   re-download them from another store if you move or whatever, and you may lose data. So they haven't

00:39:04   changed that either. So essentially, the main change is that CTF did get altered. And because

00:39:11   of that, we both score half a point and Steven score zero points. Good, good, good. That's what

00:39:16   he gets for being away. That is what he gets. No half points. Yeah. Yeah. Take that as a sabbatical.

00:39:23   No half points. Yeah. How'd you like that now? Cool. So we won, right? Is that the conclusion?

00:39:31   I think so. I mean, okay. And I think, let me take a look here. So what do we get? What do we get

00:39:38   for winning? Um, nothing, but we'll both walk away with half a point. This is the saddest

00:39:49   victory ever. We got nothing because we got two half points. There's a lot of conversation in the

00:39:55   discord, as you can currently imagine that these things will go about what the actual scoring rules

00:40:00   were for this. I don't remember setting any scoring rules. No, no, we didn't. I don't think,

00:40:04   but whatever the scoring rules are, me and you both got half of what it could have possibly been.

00:40:10   Yeah. Me and you, we got half of the truth and we will share the victory. Yeah. How about that?

00:40:16   Yeah. This is a, this is a useless victory to be fair, but it's still a victory. So, you know,

00:40:25   when you close your laptop today and you go home and you'll be on a train, you'll be thinking, man,

00:40:32   I want something today. It doesn't mean anything, but I want. It doesn't mean anything, but I want.

00:40:37   I will say though, like being this far away from us making these picks,

00:40:41   I am really surprised that nothing significant has changed in a lot of these areas.

00:40:50   It all kind of stopped. Now, to be honest, it's not like in Europe you can expect regulators to

00:40:57   be working in the summer, right? Especially in central Europe. So maybe things will pick up again

00:41:06   before Christmas, but realistically, if it's like in Italy, you have a month before people start

00:41:14   taking time off again. And, uh, we'll talk about it again in mid January. We'll see. I feel like

00:41:22   as well that there's just like enough stuff has happened that basically somebody needs to do

00:41:28   something now. Like someone needs to do something significant. Either the EU needs to actually find

00:41:34   them or Apple needs to say, screw you. Like one of these things has to happen now, I think for there

00:41:40   to be any meaningful actual change to this scenario, because all it has been for like the

00:41:47   last year or whatever, it's just, how about this? No. How about this? No. And that's just

00:41:53   going to carry on forever. Like one of them needs to actually make some kind of big statement to

00:41:59   make, I feel like some kind of significant change. I'm not necessarily saying I want any of those

00:42:04   things to happen, but like something, something significant needs to occur to move this forward.

00:42:11   And it hasn't, you know, I was thinking the other day, like I was, as I tend to do,

00:42:15   I was thinking about the 30% cut. I think about it a lot. I was just like, just imagine just

00:42:22   like WWDC. And they're like, look, we have some news. We're changing it. Like it would just,

00:42:28   people would just be so happy, you know? Cause I was thinking about the vision pro,

00:42:32   the vision pro app store, and I was thinking about AR glasses and like an AR app store.

00:42:38   And like, they need to change that dynamic. That dynamic has to change to be able to move forward.

00:42:45   And I think if we get to a scenario where it's like, there are these metal glasses,

00:42:51   and then there are these Apple glasses and like metal is like, come do what you want on our store,

00:42:57   like whatever, we're cool. Which it's not how they work right now, but they could do that if

00:43:01   they want to. I think that could cause a problem. And so I just feel like they could, but I don't

00:43:08   think it's going to happen, but I just want them to do it. I just want them to just loosen it.

00:43:12   That would be something to see. I don't think they're going to do it.

00:43:18   No, but I want them to.

00:43:19   Can we talk about Tim Cook using 12 different devices on a daily basis?

00:43:24   I really want to talk about this. Can you contextualize where this idea comes from?

00:43:30   So there was a wall street journal profile of Tim Cook, which I have not read the entire thing yet.

00:43:35   I've just been reading little bits and bobs of it so far, but there is an article on The Verge

00:43:40   written by Wes Davis, which is also a great article because Wes tries to live their life

00:43:48   the best that they can, like somebody who just uses every Apple product imaginable. It's a fun

00:43:53   take on this article, but it's coming from a quote in the wall street journal magazine,

00:43:57   where this is a quote from the article. While discussing his daily routine, Tim Cook told Ben

00:44:04   Cohen in this W sorry, this is a combo of from The Verge and the wall street journal. So I read it

00:44:09   from The Verge. While discussing his daily routine, Tim Cook told Ben Cohen in the WSJ magazine

00:44:14   interview that he every day uses every product. In the story, he mentioned specifically using an

00:44:22   iPhone, an Apple watch, AirPods, and then for work, two different Mac books, an iMac, a vision pro,

00:44:28   and an iPad pro. This is every day. Tim Cook every day uses an iPhone, an Apple watch, and AirPods,

00:44:35   two different Mac books, an iMac, a vision pro, and an iPad pro. Okay, so the first half is okay.

00:44:42   I also use an iPhone, an Apple watch, and AirPods every day. Yeah. It's the second part of the

00:44:49   sentence. Yeah. Now again, very aware of the fact that we've both said that we use multiple iPads,

00:44:55   right? And like, so, you know, that's, that's on us. We're basically Tim Cook, but I don't know

00:45:00   why you need two different Mac books. I don't know what that's for. So let's assume that you

00:45:07   have one Mac book at home and one Mac book on your desk. But then, then why are you using a laptop at

00:45:14   all if you're not taking it with you? Don't know. The problem is two Mac books plus an iMac. Yes.

00:45:20   Plus an iPad pro and a vision pro. Okay. So maybe the vision pro you're using at night.

00:45:25   Let's just say that Tim Cook, and he said that before he watched Ted Lasso on the ceiling,

00:45:31   I believe that was a quote from, from last year or this year. Um, where do the two Mac books,

00:45:39   an iMac and an iPad pro go during the day? That's what I don't understand. It's all those computers,

00:45:48   especially the, because the iPad pro maybe is walking around Apple park, holding an iPad pro,

00:45:56   you know, he likes to take it, to take his walks and he's doing email, walking, you know,

00:46:00   grabbing an iPad pro as a tablet, you know, with a pencil, but the two Mac books plus an iMac,

00:46:07   what are you doing there? So I don't know. I'm, I think this is more of a,

00:46:15   I kind of want to say publicity stunt. I don't think it's a publicity stunt, but I think it's

00:46:18   like, yeah, sure. I use everything, you know, I mean, uh, maybe look, you don't have to say you

00:46:29   use two different Mac books, right? Like that, that's the thing of like to say, like I use an

00:46:35   iPhone and Apple watch AirPods, a Mac book and iMac vision pro and iPad pro like that fine.

00:46:40   But it's the two Mac books thing that I'm getting stuck on. Cause I'm like, what, what do you,

00:46:45   but what do you, why, what are you doing though? You know, but I love it. I just love,

00:46:50   I love the thought of him using all these computers. I don't know why he's using an

00:46:52   iMac. Like I kind of, why is he just not using one of his laptops plugged into a studio display?

00:46:57   Does he use a studio display? You know, like I want to, I want to know more. This is the thing,

00:47:02   like, you know, if I was ever offered the opportunity to interview Tim Cook, right.

00:47:09   By and large, it would be pointless. Let's be realistic, right. In the sense of I might enjoy

00:47:14   it, but everyone's going to be unhappy, right? Cause I'm not going to be able to get answers to

00:47:19   any of the questions you want. Like I'm not going to be able to get an answer from him about the DMA,

00:47:23   let's say right. Like we all know the pitfalls of these things. Like you're not actually going to

00:47:28   get answers to questions that you, that people, that the listeners want you to get because

00:47:34   Apple is not going to give that information willingly, right? That information is given

00:47:40   when they choose to give it. You can't just say to them, tell me about this. People think that

00:47:46   if you just ask these questions, you'll get answers, which is just madness, right? Like

00:47:50   people have no idea how these interviews work. Yeah. That's the problem. You can ask whatever

00:47:56   you want, but they're just going to say, I'm not going to answer that. And so like, then you've

00:48:00   wasted everybody's time. It's never going to be part of the interview that you see or listen to.

00:48:08   That's just not how it works. Yeah. And like, uh, yeah. Yeah. People have no idea. And also,

00:48:17   I mean, at least for me, I don't, I don't feel the need to go around making enemies of people.

00:48:22   Like I don't want to be combative, right? Like I don't want to sit down with Tim Cook and then

00:48:26   make him like annoyed at me. Now I am CEO of the biggest company in the world. I am going to make

00:48:32   you willingly uncomfortable. That's what I'm going to do with my life today. And I will never be able

00:48:36   to interview you again in the future. And yeah, that's a, that's a solid plan. Why not? But anyway,

00:48:42   and like, this is why I'm happy to not be a journalist, right? I ain't no journalist.

00:48:46   I have no, I was going to say I have no ethics. That's not what I mean.

00:48:51   I have zero ethics. No, but I'm not bound by like the journalistic code or whatever,

00:48:56   that everybody else puts their right hand on the AP style guide and their left hand to the sky and

00:49:01   make some kind of statement. I don't know. Do you think that's how, that's how they do. Do you think

00:49:05   that's how Steven did it? Probably. Right. Right. Okay. Probably. But what I would want to ask him,

00:49:12   like, if I got the opportunity to speak to Tim Cook, I want to ask him about this, right? Like,

00:49:19   I want to go through in minute detail how he uses his products every day. Like, what is he doing on

00:49:27   them? Like, what devices he pick up first in the morning? What does he do on it? Where does he do

00:49:33   his email? Where does he send these messages? Like, and there is some of that in this article,

00:49:37   right? Where like they're talking about the group threads. Did you catch this? He's like,

00:49:41   oh, do you ever name your group threads? He's like, oh, I can name my group threads. He's like,

00:49:44   I have one with my roommates. I've now called it roommates. Incredible. That's what I want. And I

00:49:49   do like that Ben Cohen got some of that stuff out of him, but like, I, that's what I want. So Apple,

00:49:55   if you're out there and you want Tim Cook to talk about exactly how he uses all of his devices every

00:50:00   day, call me and that's all we'll talk about. And I tell you what, that'd be the most interesting

00:50:05   interview I could get out of the man. Like, I know that for sure, because we'd all have a good time.

00:50:10   We'd nerd out about like the benefits of one screen size over another, you know, it would be

00:50:16   great. But Tim Cook is an, is an absolute mad lab power user is what we've learned.

00:50:20   I'm still thinking about those two MacBooks plus an iMac plus an iPad Pro. I cannot get over that,

00:50:27   but okay. Two MacBooks. Two MacBooks. Two MacBooks. An iMac. Yeah. And an iPad Pro.

00:50:34   Yeah. These are not four separate products. Hang on a minute. He just has this one big

00:50:40   screen that he just keeps unfolding. And he puts it in different places.

00:50:46   Wow. That's how it works. Who would have thought it?

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00:52:29   ExpressVPN for the support of this show and Relay. So next week, iOS 18.1 is coming out and the

00:52:39   release can set us out. And we mentioned it earlier, iOS 18.2 is now out and my phone is

00:52:45   very hot but it is installed. So I have that there from if and when we want to get to that because

00:52:50   I've not even done anything with it yet. I don't even know where to start. Like I don't know where

00:52:54   to go or what to start with but maybe you can help me with that. But you wanted to know a little bit

00:53:00   about how I have been using Apple intelligence, I think. Yeah. So ask me what you want to know.

00:53:06   I don't know. I was just, because I think, you know, I've been talking to John about it

00:53:13   and he's had a completely different type of experience. And so I just wanted to know,

00:53:19   like, is Apple intelligence something that you use on a regular basis? Is Apple intelligence

00:53:24   something that if you went into settings and turned it off, is it something that you would

00:53:31   miss immediately? Or like what's your relationship with it? How much do you use it? Has it become

00:53:37   something you rely upon or just is it still a gimmick? Like I want to know, yeah, how you live

00:53:43   with it, how you work with it. Well, I think at this point there would be features that I would

00:53:49   miss and there would be features that I wouldn't. Like I could just go do something else. Like I

00:53:55   could just use something else. So I think the features that I would miss would be summaries

00:54:02   and like these are summaries of various things. So I have come to really like the notification

00:54:08   summary stuff. Um, it is not perfect. Like that's for sure. Right? Like there's some stuff that it

00:54:15   summarizes where really the thing that is being summarized like this app probably shouldn't

00:54:22   have summarization applied to it because it just doesn't make sense. Like for example, I have an

00:54:27   example, right? Um, I'm going to turn this off because it doesn't work for me. Like I have

00:54:32   notifications for overcast. They just go into my notification center. So like I can see when

00:54:37   new podcasts that I like have posted and overcast notifications have the episode description in them,

00:54:46   right? Now, episode descriptions for two different podcasts merged together doesn't make sense

00:54:55   because these are two incredibly different things. Like for example, I have

00:55:01   the episode description for today's episode of The Pen Addict that me and Brad made because

00:55:07   I subscribe to my own shows to make sure they post. And then also the summary for

00:55:12   The Retecory Daily Update. And like one is about pens and pencils and one is about technology.

00:55:18   So like when they are put together as if it's one source of data, they're so disparate from

00:55:24   each other that it doesn't make sense to summarize it because what it does, so I will read this to

00:55:31   you. Netflix's margin expansion highlights its business model differentiation. Ticonder October

00:55:38   continues with pencil kit build out. Like one is about Netflix, the other is about Brad's pencil

00:55:45   case. Now like together, that isn't helpful, right? But there are lots of things that are,

00:55:53   like the best ones by far are like the home kit stuff, right? So like I have, I get a notification

00:55:59   from my front door is open and closed. And you know, prior to this feature in point one, I would

00:56:08   just tap it and there'll be like a list of 20 things, right? Maybe during a day. But now I look

00:56:14   at it and it's like multiple statuses have changed for the door. It was most recently closed. That

00:56:19   is just like a good piece of information to get from the notifications. Like that is a better

00:56:27   notification than door closed plus 20 more, right? I think that there is a benefit to that.

00:56:35   And similarly, like if somebody sends me a long slack message, it summarizes it. That is helpful

00:56:43   because I can get a sense of what the message is in one sentence. Like by and large, most of these

00:56:52   things are good. Like I will say there are a lot of viral ones and even in that interview that I

00:56:57   mentioned earlier with Joanna Stern and Craig Federighi, Joanna brought up, there was like

00:57:01   somebody who got a bunch of messages where they were broken up with and it was like super stum,

00:57:06   or it was like relationship is over request for requesting stuff to be picked up or something like

00:57:11   that. And Craig was like, and Craig did a great job answering this. I think he was like, yeah,

00:57:16   I mean, that is a bit like straightforward, but also it's not great to be broken up with by text

00:57:20   anyway. So there's kind of no good way in which you're going to get that information. And I was

00:57:24   like, that is a great answer. Cause like, okay, the notifications got condensed, but you would

00:57:30   have just seen a notification where it would have said, I'm sorry, but it's over. So like,

00:57:34   is it really that much different? It's just like, that was the content of the message.

00:57:37   But like, I do feel like getting some of these summaries can be really good. And like,

00:57:42   I feel the same about you get these for email summaries now too. So, um, there are two ways

00:57:47   that you can get summaries of emails and like seeing the, the, in my inbox, right? You get a

00:57:54   list of messages and you can choose to have a summary of the message as the preview. A summary

00:58:00   of the contents is better to me than just seeing hi Mike, how are you over and over and over again

00:58:06   from different messages, right? Like getting a message instead of seeing like the preview of like,

00:58:12   hi Mike, how are you to be like, you know, this message includes details about the order and it

00:58:17   has an invoice like that. It's just a better preview, right? Then the ways in which people

00:58:23   would start an email. Um, so I like that. I think that is good. I also like that a lot of marketing

00:58:28   emails that I get, sometimes it would be like, uh, talking about a new product line. It includes

00:58:33   the 20% discount code. I'm like, well, that one's maybe interesting to me because it's,

00:58:38   I can see that there's, there is stuff going on in this email. So I like that. And similarly,

00:58:44   when you're in an email, you can press the button to summarize it for you. And for some email

00:58:48   newsletters that I subscribe to, I will press that button to kind of get an overview of what is in

00:58:53   the email to decide if I want to dig into any of the topics. Cause I subscribe to some of my

00:58:58   newsletters where I don't feel the need to read everything. Um, I think that is healthy. Like,

00:59:04   I'm not like, I'm just going to read all of it. Uh, and before I would be like, if I don't have

00:59:09   the time for this, I'm just going to have to get rid of it. But now if I don't have the time,

00:59:13   I can get a quick summary to see if maybe I do want to jump three, two thirds down the email

00:59:18   to read this one thing. So I like it for that too. So the summary stuff is my favorite and like it.

00:59:24   And if that was gone, I would miss it. That's kind of the only thing currently that I would

00:59:31   significantly miss. So other things that I mean, I've tried the writing tools,

00:59:40   you know, like the writing tools that are built into the system. I find them good for proofreading.

00:59:45   Uh, I like the condensing feature to kind of just make something shorter. And, but the best one I

00:59:50   think is making a list of stuff. Like that's just helpful because making lists is annoying. Like if

00:59:55   you have like a bunch of texts and you want to turn it into a list, being able to say, like,

00:59:59   press one button, make this a list. That's just like a great feature for a computer to do. And

01:00:03   like computers don't do a good job of that. And like that, this is like a good thing for your

01:00:07   computer to just be like, here's a list for you. Right. Right. Um, I find the tone of some of the

01:00:15   rewriting stuff, you know, like we're like, make this happy, make this serious to just be way over

01:00:19   the top. Like they need to dial that tone back. Like I, if I've ever tried to get a tone change

01:00:26   on something, like I'm like, you know, I write something out and like write this in a cheerful

01:00:29   way or a professional way. I feel like they go way too extreme in that tone request. And like

01:00:37   what I like about a tool like chat, GPT for this is you can specify yourself what that tone should

01:00:47   be. Right. So like you can say, write this in a such and such tone. And I'd like one of the things

01:00:53   that I like to do when I'm doing these tools is like, keep my style of writing, but just make this

01:00:58   better. And I find that to be pretty good. And this is where I feel tools like this are better.

01:01:04   And I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong. I think that I have actually made some tweaks like

01:01:09   that for 0.2. Yeah. It seems like you can now prompt, uh, the system for, to ask for more

01:01:19   specific changes. Um, this is something that I'm going to try and understand how it works as we are

01:01:26   doing the show now. I. Oh, writing tools. This is describe your change. So that's just at the top.

01:01:33   So previously you would just use the buttons and now it's now you can just type in a prompt.

01:01:41   So here's a fun fact for you. Here's a fun fact for you. Tell me. I logged out of my Italian app

01:01:50   store account, logged in with my old existing US Apple ID. I can use Apple intelligence.

01:02:02   So I requested access to image playground, which is a separate cue it seems. And Apple intelligence

01:02:10   is now downloading. That's what it says in settings. Um, and I got writing tools in notes.

01:02:15   I'm also signing into chat GPT. Oh, look at this. This is what I wanted. You have an option

01:02:23   to confirm chat GPT requests. Where do you get this? So chat GPT is in the Apple intelligence,

01:02:31   like, uh, settings. There is an option called extend Apple intelligence in Siri. It's like a

01:02:37   one of, it's like halfway down the page. I guess I don't have it because it's still downloading.

01:02:42   Yeah. And so you've got chat GPT and I get an option says, Siri says confirm chat GPT requests

01:02:47   and it's turned on. So I will turn that off because I don't, I want it to get that information

01:02:52   for me and I've signed in anyway, so it will have my stuff. Cause that's how you do this. Cause also

01:02:57   at the bottom of writing tools now it says compose. And that is where you can just straight up

01:03:04   whatever you want. Right. Write me a message about this, you know, so I can be like, oh,

01:03:10   here we go. I'm going to do this in a group chat. Uh, who is Federico Fittici? So I've just put that

01:03:17   into, into writing tools in iOS and it composes a message, which is working right now. Oh,

01:03:23   interesting. So I'm doing the setup for chat GPT. There's now a setup screen for chat GPT

01:03:29   and you can, you can say enable chat GPT or optionally, this is

01:03:33   not highlighted by default. You can use chat GPT with an account. Yeah. I've signed in.

01:03:40   Huh. And to what benefit? I don't know, man. I don't know. I do think that there,

01:03:50   I think that they did say something about this, that there was some benefit to signing in,

01:03:55   but I have an account, so I've just signed in anyway. Maybe it saves my questions. I don't know.

01:04:00   But like now I just sent this in our group thread. I just said, who is Federico Fittici?

01:04:05   And it just gave me a chat GPT. Uh, straight up composed from nothing built in to basically

01:04:13   anywhere in the system. Okay. So can you describe with two truths and one lie? Oh, interesting.

01:04:23   What a way to describe that. Who is Mike Hurley? I've never thought to ask an AI a question in that

01:04:29   way. That's hilarious to, to, to be like, give me two truths and a lie. That's fascinating. No,

01:04:34   unable to create content at this time. Oh, no lies. They're not allowed lies. No lies. Again,

01:04:41   this might be cause stuff's downloading for you. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff is downloading. I guess there's

01:04:46   a big asterisk to all of this conversation, which I'll say to you and I'll say to the rest of the

01:04:50   listeners, like, like it or I hate it. I'm using it, right? Like I understand why people don't

01:04:56   like it. I feel like I've made it very clear that I wished that Apple would have done things

01:05:00   differently. I wish that all of these services would have done things differently, but I,

01:05:05   considering these things exist, I am using them and I want to see what they can do for me.

01:05:09   And I have found many ways in my professional life that these tools do help me like today to try and

01:05:17   dig through to get the answers and the DMA stuff. I was beginning my searches with chat GPT and then

01:05:23   going out to the links that it was providing because searching Google was terrible. Like

01:05:28   any of these services that are attached to the internet are better search engines than Google.

01:05:37   They just are. This is the case for perplexity. This is the case for chat GPT. I know how bad

01:05:44   they are. I want them to pay the price for the copyright lawsuits. I want them to lose. I want

01:05:51   them to have to pay because they have stolen stuff. But if we just ignore that for a second,

01:05:55   these are better search engines than Google. I've not used Gemini. I'm sure like Gemini is good, but

01:06:02   I find it easier to get what I'm looking for by asking these services than by Googling it because

01:06:09   Google, like a straight Google search, it's looking for the words I'm searching, but that isn't always

01:06:15   going to get me the answer, right? Like having a level of understanding and interpreting and being

01:06:21   able to do thousands of searches, right? However many searches it's doing gets me the answers that

01:06:27   I want. And so anyway, but I don't need to argue my point for now. Siri, I like the UI, right?

01:06:36   Right. But that's kind of it. It's going off. I'm sorry. I knew that was going to happen because I

01:06:42   was way too forceful in the way that I said that. The UI is nice, but like it's incredibly

01:06:47   inconsistent and it's still pushing me to the web. Now, again, I am hoping that that is about

01:06:52   the change of 18.2 because I do believe some of the things that I ask, and it's like, I'm going

01:06:58   to go to the web for you. If it just sent that question to chat GPT, I would get the answer I

01:07:02   wanted. And like my hope is now with 0.2, which again, it would not use in enough detail, that

01:07:09   that is going to be a significant change in the usefulness of this assistant. That you can ask it

01:07:15   complex questions and it gives you an answer rather than saying, I searched this on the web for you.

01:07:21   Like I think that is going to be hugely beneficial, but I have to see how it goes. Something that is

01:07:27   absolutely terrible is the smart replies and messages. Okay. I don't understand

01:07:34   whose messages they look at to try and understand these replies because I have never once spoken

01:07:40   the way that these messages want me to speak like absolute psychotic behavior. Like it says bananas,

01:07:48   like, haha, comma, that's funny, exclamation mark. If I sent that message to anybody that knows me,

01:07:55   they would think my phone had been stolen because I don't write like that. I believe my theory on

01:08:02   this, this is just a theory. My theory on this is that this is the exact same system as like

01:08:08   the predictive replies before, but they've just, they've made it look like Apple intelligence

01:08:13   because I can tell zero difference. And I feel like you have every message I've ever sent,

01:08:19   put it into an LLM. That would be great, right? Just put it into an LLM that's on device for me.

01:08:26   You can basically just help me write my messages. It would make my own autocorrect better, right?

01:08:34   Because it would be autocorrecting in the way that I speak. That's what I hope they will do one day.

01:08:42   Why not? You have, I have given this device hundreds, I think a million iMessages. I think

01:08:48   it says I've sent millions of iMessages for sure. That is, you have every way I would ever speak to

01:08:54   someone like that is the true smart reply. That's not just at that point. It's not just replying,

01:09:00   like giving me options on how to reply. That is like straight up, you know what I would say to

01:09:06   this question, right? It's kind of scary if you think about it, like you know how to fake me if

01:09:11   you wanted to. Sure, but I think it's fine as long as I am able to decide to send it. Oh yeah, right?

01:09:17   That you can just, you can give me a response to this, like you know me, so help me. Because

01:09:23   currently the smart replies, which it's already showing me, there's no point in being there because

01:09:28   they're of zero use. Like the most I've ever done is tap one and then edit it, which is like at this

01:09:35   point I might as well just written the answer myself. Mail's priority messages I don't find

01:09:42   to be reliable or have any kind of discernible pattern as to what is considered to be a priority

01:09:46   message. It just doesn't really seem to do anything. And then I think the last thing that

01:09:53   I've used is the memory stuff in photos. Mail just got the new design in 18.2 by the way. Oh sick.

01:10:01   Yeah, I'm looking at it now. Now that is an 18.2 thing, right? 18.2. Not just an Apple intelligence

01:10:07   thing. Yeah, look at that. Categories. I don't know. Mail categories. I've got primary,

01:10:14   transactions, updates and promotions. That's what I have. No, I'm a bit, I'm already confused by it,

01:10:23   so I'm gonna have to look, because for example I have one message that is in both transactions

01:10:27   and primary. Sure, why not? No, why would, and it even has a little transactions icon next to it.

01:10:32   No, why would it do that? Finds the messages that matter most. Oh, in primary and organize everything.

01:10:39   I need to dig into that, but I'm excited about that feature in general because I like email,

01:10:45   all the email apps do this. Like mail should do this. Like I should not have to see receipts in

01:10:50   my main inbox. You should know it's a receipt. Put it somewhere else. I think that's great.

01:10:54   So I'm looking forward to that. I mean, looking ahead to 18.2, right, but beyond.

01:11:03   So chat GPT integration I'm excited about because I just want to see what that's all about.

01:11:07   I'm intrigued about priority notifications, which I don't know if it's going to be in point two,

01:11:11   because I've been playing around with the reduce interruptions focus mode. I think it's interesting.

01:11:17   I haven't, I'm not using it fully yet because I'm waiting until I install all of this stuff on my

01:11:22   Mac too, because I don't want to be on a focus mode that one device can't understand. Even though

01:11:28   weirdly, one of my focus mode options on my Mac is reduce interruptions, even though I'm not running

01:11:34   point one, it's like it's doing its thing out there. But like, I think that that could be

01:11:39   interesting. And I feel like I I've been using it, um, on my cortex brand iPad. I've had it on

01:11:44   all the time and I think it does do a decent job of surfacing some stuff. And so I'm intrigued to

01:11:50   see how priority notifications works. Um, I'm genuinely horrified about image playgrounds. Like

01:11:57   I just, I, I, I've requested access and I have to wait. So this is, there's probably gonna have to

01:12:03   be something we follow up on next week. Um, I requested access immediately, but I don't have

01:12:08   it yet. And so I'm going to keep opening and closing until the episode's done. Um,

01:12:12   we have visual intelligence, which have, which I don't really understand what I'm supposed to do

01:12:17   with this. Um, I'm supposed to walk around, walk around them pointed stuff. I can, you know,

01:12:23   when I tap this iPhone captures what's in view and sends the information to chat GPT for information,

01:12:30   visual intelligence with camera control, learn about the objects and places around you and get

01:12:34   even more information about what you see. Okay. So there's two buttons. Oh, this is hilarious. So I

01:12:40   just showed it my desk, which has a play date on it. Uh, and it says this image features a desk

01:12:46   set up of a Game Boy Advance SP. Uh, for me, it's searched for a poster that I have, and it said,

01:12:54   I'm going to search with Google and they provided Google search results to similar products,

01:12:59   or I'm going to take the picture again and ask. And the ask button does nothing because I guess

01:13:06   Apple intelligence is still downloading on my device, but I can use half the things and the

01:13:12   other half just doesn't work. Here's the thing. The fact that I can hold my phone up to anything

01:13:18   and ask chat GPT what it's looking at and then can follow up with questions. This could actually be

01:13:24   pretty interesting. I'm going to point my phone at your profile picture. Oh, interesting. I'm

01:13:32   going to search. No, it's just finding pictures of computers. Okay. Well, I've done it to you.

01:13:39   I've taken, I've taken, I've just scanned my picture and it says, this is a digital profile

01:13:44   picture of a man with curly hair and a beard set against the warm colored background. The use of

01:13:50   vibrant hues suggests an attempt to convey an approachable and friendly demeanor possibly

01:13:54   used in social media or communication platforms. Do you feel like that's a good description of

01:13:59   what you're looking at? Yeah, I think so. Is it friendly and approachable? I'm going to press the

01:14:03   search image button, which does a reverse Google image search, no results. So we're doing our best

01:14:09   over here. I think that the Google image search part is genuinely pointless. Um, I think that

01:14:15   they just didn't want this to be the chat GPT phone. Like what, what is the use of a Google,

01:14:21   a reverse Google image search like realistically, like, is that that compelling of a thing? I don't

01:14:28   think so. To be fair, to be fair, doing reverse Google image searches on mobile has always been

01:14:36   kind of challenging. So now at the very least, now you have a quicker way to get to those. Um,

01:14:43   but yeah, I don't, I mean, if obviously the real value is in the proper explanation,

01:14:49   right. Instead of just like, here's some web results for you. Uh, so far when I wanted to do,

01:14:56   uh, Google image searches, I've been using the Google app on my phone. Yeah, I guess it's Google

01:15:01   lens really, isn't it? So I might be, I might be giving a short shrift there, but at the moment,

01:15:06   every time I've pressed the searching with Google button, it hasn't really gotten me much of what

01:15:12   I'm looking for. Okay. I just put it to a candle I have on my desk and it, and it immediately gave

01:15:16   me the candle. So, okay. I can see some use for that. I see personally more use in the chat GPT

01:15:23   thing because you can kind of be like, Hey, what am I looking at here? You know, like how you would

01:15:27   use it on the Ray-Bans, but again, I need to, we need to spend more time with this. I mean,

01:15:31   the image playgrounds and the, I assume gemmoji is part of that. Um, I don't have access to any

01:15:37   of that yet. So we'll see. But, uh, I'm, what I'll say is like, just looking at what they've added

01:15:42   here, 18.2 is significantly more interesting than 18.1. I would agree with that. There is a lot more

01:15:50   in here and I think a lot of it is the chat GPT stuff is unlocking a bunch of functionality. Um,

01:15:57   they, they, they, they should have, I'm going to say it again. Uh, they should have waited.

01:16:02   They should have waited until they could package this whole thing together,

01:16:05   0.1 and 0.2 and put that all out together. They should have waited.

01:16:08   The staged rollout, I feel like, and the whole strategy of pitching the new iPhone says built

01:16:16   from the ground up with AI. I, it obviously comes from a place of maybe not fear is the right word,

01:16:23   but it comes from a place of concern, right? Of being left behind compared to the rest of

01:16:29   the industry. Yeah. Years from now, and maybe not even years from now, maybe even months from now,

01:16:34   we'll look back and say, man, they should have really, they should have just

01:16:38   waited for like 18.1 and 18.2 together to tell a much more compelling story

01:16:46   instead of rationing out of the door with 18.1 and then following up quickly with 18.2.

01:16:51   At the same time, I also think this slow drip of AI features, it works in their favor from a PR

01:17:04   perspective probably because they continue, they remain in the cycle of the news. So there are

01:17:12   pros to that approach, I think. Um, and I just wanted to say something if you'll allow me before

01:17:19   we wrap up sort of a more of a, can I before, cause I know this is going to be a real good,

01:17:23   big point. I just want to say one last thing that I've noticed. This is, and I think is very smart

01:17:28   UI. So now the emoji search field in the keyboard says describe an emoji, right? So you will start

01:17:36   typing the emoji that you want and it will search the emoji that's there. Or if there's no result,

01:17:41   it's like, would you like to create an emoji? That is clever. That is clever. A British man.

01:17:48   Well, it's not going to let you do it because you got to ride in a motorbike once you create an

01:17:57   emoji, create new emoji. I was like, it's not going to work yet, but I think that is, that's,

01:18:06   that is very clever user experience design, I think, um, to combine those two things together.

01:18:11   And there is also a specific button that you can press to just go straight into that mode.

01:18:16   But I think that is going to be a way that a lot of people are going to discover that this feature

01:18:20   exists. Um, so I think that's, I think that's cool, but anyway, take us home Federico.

01:18:25   I just wanted to say something. I think a lot of people are under the impression that, um,

01:18:31   because I had opinions, so this is circling back to what we said toward the beginning of the show,

01:18:35   because I had opinions months ago, and I still do, uh, about how the training data was used for AI,

01:18:41   not just for Apple intelligence, but for all kinds of other companies, um, that because of

01:18:46   that opinion, I will, um, bury my head under the sand for the next five years and never talk about

01:18:53   AI. That is not my plan. That is not what I am going to do. Um, I think people can hold, um,

01:19:02   multitudes of opinions, you know, like, uh, you, you, you can think two things

01:19:07   about something about someone, and even though they are conflicting, you can still hold those

01:19:14   two thoughts. And so, um, I think it's, it was important for me to take a particular stance,

01:19:21   uh, regarding, regarding training, regarding, uh, the danger of AI for creative people. I do believe,

01:19:29   I still do believe there's real danger. There's we're, we're seeing the stories every day.

01:19:34   There's real danger to the idea of enabling a whole generation of kids and younger adults like

01:19:41   us, you know, um, to just generate content without the help of a professional. That's something that

01:19:50   I think at the same time. And again, that's one opinion at the same time. I also think there's

01:19:56   real value in using this technology with my data after my consent on my phone or on my iPad to say,

01:20:05   this is the text that I wrote in notes, do something with it. This is something like

01:20:10   app intent, for example, coming out next year. These are the apps that I'm using, uh, use my

01:20:16   data to train your model, right? And help me out here because I need to remember something that I

01:20:22   don't remember. I think what we are witnessing is so unlike anything we have experienced as people

01:20:32   who follow tech over the past 15 years, right? Um, and to, to have one opinion and sort of have it

01:20:42   become your brand forever, um, is so dangerous right now, which is why I think, you know,

01:20:51   strapping because it's going to get weird, right? I'm going to have opinions about AI and then I'm

01:20:55   going to use AI and it's all going to happen in the same bucket of a person. You know, it's all

01:21:01   going to happen together. Uh, and it's okay. I think it's okay. I genuinely think it's okay to,

01:21:07   to believe something about AI and take advantage of the things that work for you because the other

01:21:11   reality is, and this is where I'm going to wrap up. The reality is in the near future, this train

01:21:20   ain't stopping. Like this is, this is happening. Like this keeps going like, like it or not,

01:21:27   this is what's going to happen realistically for the next few years. Does that mean I need to,

01:21:35   you know, uh, just, uh, accept it, you know, shut up and accept the things I don't like? No, no,

01:21:43   but it also means, do I want to become irrelevant? Do I want to become the kind of person who just,

01:21:49   you know, like, ah, everybody else is writing about AI? I don't care. I'm going to be writing

01:21:53   about wired earbuds forever. No, it does, it doesn't mean that. It means now more than,

01:22:00   in fact, now more than ever, because of this technology, we need people advocating for,

01:22:07   um, for, for the ethics of AI, advocating for proper training practices. Now more than ever,

01:22:14   we need opinions and you got to play the game. That's, that's how I'm going to sum it up.

01:22:23   You got to play the game if you want to change the game. I agree with you. Like this is,

01:22:27   I think this is, um, I'm actually very happy to hear you say this and I don't think you would,

01:22:32   I personally don't believe, and I won't be people that agree with this, but I don't believe that

01:22:36   you would be able to make your point as effectively if you never use these things.

01:22:40   Right. I think that, and, and I do believe that there is a path, I don't think anyone's going to

01:22:47   take it, but there is a path to use new tools ethically, like create new tools ethically.

01:22:52   I thought Apple was going to be that company, but they weren't.

01:22:57   Yeah. Um, I see this comment in the discord, uh, that I think is interesting and I want to address

01:23:04   before we, before we end the episode, um, um, scary music boy, great username. Um, I think

01:23:12   vocally not talking about it is an incredibly powerful stance if you don't approve of it.

01:23:16   Yes and no. Uh, because from, from, uh, from, uh, if you look at this problem with, with the end

01:23:25   goal being, I want change or I want, you know, such and such result, what is more effective?

01:23:33   To say, Oh yeah, Federico, it doesn't cover AI because he's politically against it.

01:23:39   Or is it more effective if Federico tries AI and says, Oh, look, X and Y company,

01:23:46   I can create an image of a Nazi with your tool. Like what is more effective to end up with a

01:23:53   better product? Because clearly as an individual, right, myself, or maybe somebody else like me,

01:24:00   obviously objectively almost, I would say, uh, I don't have the power in my hands. I don't think

01:24:06   nobody does. Not even NKBHD does. I don't have the power to single handedly stop the entire tech

01:24:13   industry from shipping AI, right? Nobody does. If you don't talk about it, it will not change

01:24:19   anything. If I don't talk about it, it doesn't change anything. However, there is a small chance

01:24:24   that if I do talk about it and complain about the things that don't work, maybe that will have an

01:24:31   effect. You're able to shift the course of the ship. You cannot drop the anchor. Yeah. Like,

01:24:41   look, individually, we're pretty much powerless here. Like we're literally talking about

01:24:47   corporations with trillions or hundreds of billions of dollars in cash reserves. Like

01:24:52   nobody cares about us from that point of view. So what are we going to do? Like,

01:24:59   are we going to just sit in silence and switch to Linux, you know, become that person? We could do

01:25:06   that. Some people have done it. The most Linux I can get in my life is the Steam Deck, personally.

01:25:14   Or there's another way. And the other way is get your multiple opinions in order because you're

01:25:22   going to need them. So that's my take. I don't know. I don't know. I'm a work in progress.

01:25:29   Everybody's a work in progress. And that's fine. If you were expecting your favorite content creator

01:25:35   to be a fully formed person, that's not the case. I just, I think realistically, I mean,

01:25:43   I feel like I'm going back to the same conversation that we had when this began,

01:25:50   which is that like, no one's going to be happy here. And we're just moving forward together.

01:25:57   Yeah. You know, you, listener, will have different opinions to us on this scenario.

01:26:04   We just all look to try and give each other a little bit of grace.

01:26:08   And we are all just trying to work our way through this new era of technology together.

01:26:13   We've never been in something like this before. So here we are, we're all just like,

01:26:20   moving forward, doing whatever it is we're going to try and do. We're all just poking at the walls,

01:26:26   whether they're tiny walls or big walls, like we're all just like, we're trying to work out

01:26:31   what we're comfortable with. I don't think that people should be persecuted for those decisions,

01:26:37   like using chat GPT is not a crime. Maybe the way that the information was harvested was a crime,

01:26:44   but like, I'm not responsible for that crime. And maybe there's ethical stuff in there. Yeah,

01:26:49   there is. We all have our own ethical lines of this. I just think that it's too difficult to

01:26:54   paint of a broad brush and that we're all just trying to work this out together.

01:26:59   But next week we'll have more about it and maybe some Macs too.

01:27:03   Yeah. By the way, I did try to request a description of Mike Hurley and it just,

01:27:10   it stopped at chat GPT, is requesting additional details. So chat GPT can't catch me. Chat GPT

01:27:17   doesn't want to describe you. Or maybe, or maybe you're so unique, you cannot be described. Yep.

01:27:24   You know, a description wouldn't hold the many facets of Mike Hurley. Indeed. So

01:27:31   thank you for listening to this week's episode of Connected. Thank you very much to our sponsors,

01:27:37   Zocdoc, NetSuite, and ExpressVPN. Thank you for everybody who signs up for Connected Pro to get

01:27:43   longer ad-free versions of the show every week. You can go to get connectedpro.co to get that.

01:27:48   If you have follow-up feedback or questions, you can go to connectedfeedback.com and you can hit

01:27:53   the link in your show notes to send us in some feedback, question, or whatever for a future

01:27:58   episode. If you want to find Federico online, he's on Mastodon. He is vitichi@maxstories.net,

01:28:05   and you can also find him over at maxstories.net and on the many podcasts. I think just go to a

01:28:10   podcast app and search Federico and just see what comes up. Maybe there'll be something new for you

01:28:15   there. You can find me. I'm at iMike, i-m-y-k-e. You can find me here on Relay and my work at

01:28:21   cortexbrand.com. We'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye Federico.

01:28:26   I'd be there to you.

01:28:28   Cheerio.