00:00:13 ◼ ► Netsuit and ExpressVPN. I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci, and it's my pleasure to
00:00:25 ◼ ► It's so great to be here. We have now passed the halfway, like we're on the decline towards
00:00:35 ◼ ► Steven returning, which as I say that, I didn't mean it like that, like that the show is going
00:00:39 ◼ ► to get worse. I meant that like, if you imagine there was a midway peak, we have now passed that,
00:00:44 ◼ ► because I think what we've got next week's show and then Steven's back. So then the show,
00:00:49 ◼ ► maybe it's a decline now and then Steven returns and then the show bounces back, you know?
00:01:20 ◼ ► There you go. And so welcome to the darkness. I mean, literally today we're going to talk about AI
00:01:27 ◼ ► and the DMA. So I mean, I'm not wrong, but both, I know what you think. They know what you think.
00:01:37 ◼ ► We're not doing it in the way that you think we're doing it, but we are going to do it. But before we
00:01:41 ◼ ► do it, we have some follow up. So we were actually hoping that today's episode was going to be a
00:01:46 ◼ ► Ricky's. I was hoping that that was going to be what happened. And we had a whole system in place
00:01:52 ◼ ► for if there was going to be a Ricky's where we were going to get OTJ to come and he was going to
00:01:56 ◼ ► pick for Steven. And I was really excited about that because I was wondering what that was going
00:02:01 ◼ ► to be like. Because what I was wondering, and maybe we can ask Jon this, what I was wondering is,
00:02:34 ◼ ► You had a whole plan, didn't you? I know the two of you. I can hear it now. But anyway,
00:02:50 ◼ ► I thought there would be. Me and Jason drafted and I said, I thought that there would be an event.
00:02:55 ◼ ► But an event in the sense of just like, Hey, here's a video. Like I didn't think it was going
00:02:59 ◼ ► to be a big song and dance, but just in the last couple of days, there have been some reporting
00:03:05 ◼ ► and namely from Mark Gurman, basically saying that the max is still coming. Something's still
00:03:11 ◼ ► happening. Um, within the next week or so the new max will come out and Apple is going to be holding
00:03:18 ◼ ► an event for influencers next Wednesday in LA. So my expectation now is that maybe Monday or
00:03:28 ◼ ► Tuesday, there will be some press releases with some max. And honestly, like if we do get the
00:03:36 ◼ ► Mac mini in the way that they're saying that the rumors are suggesting, I think it's sad that
00:03:40 ◼ ► they're not going to do something, but they could just put out a little video or whatever. Like I
00:03:45 ◼ ► think of, uh, remember the magic keyboard when they announced the magic keyboard in like March,
00:03:50 ◼ ► 2020, what did you, what did you do with the magic keyboard? Because it was March, 2020. Do you
00:03:55 ◼ ► remember that time? Uh, they just, they just made a video and it was just Craig Federighi just like
00:04:01 ◼ ► showing it off. Oh my God. Yes. I completely removed that. It was the first one of these.
00:04:09 ◼ ► Like, cause they, they, they didn't, uh, I think, I think it was like the first and they were just
00:04:18 ◼ ► yeah, because it was also like all the developer documentation about it afterwards for like the
00:04:31 ◼ ► now Zach has just reminded me that it was even weirder, which was that Apple made a video,
00:04:36 ◼ ► but didn't post it to YouTube, but sent the video to journalists and allowed them to post it.
00:04:43 ◼ ► So Jason posted it on the six colors YouTube channel and it's currently sitting at 900,000
00:04:48 ◼ ► views. So I think it did good for Jason, you know, they had no idea. Well, they really didn't like,
00:04:59 ◼ ► it was March 18th, 2020, like it just all kicked off basically. And so I think that they were just
00:05:06 ◼ ► like, they were just doing, doing the best they could of what they had. And then it was
00:05:10 ◼ ► not just a magic keyboard, but it was also the, the fact that the iPad pro cursor existed, right?
00:05:15 ◼ ► Like it was the kind of the combo. And so they, they did that. That was worthy of more than just
00:05:19 ◼ ► what an exciting day though. Like the introduction of the magic keyboard with the trackpad. I was so
00:05:25 ◼ ► happy that day. I think that was the day that I bought the 2020 iPad pro, like an absolute soccer
00:05:35 ◼ ► such a strange combination of feelings because, you know, on the one hand, a pandemic with the
00:05:40 ◼ ► lockdown and immediately we really had it bad at that moment. But on the other hand, you know,
00:05:48 ◼ ► an iPad with a magic keyboard. I will say though that time, I mean, now I don't know where we are
00:05:52 ◼ ► on the podcast now, but like that time in like mid March, they still had that thing of like,
00:05:58 ◼ ► oh, this will fix it though. Like we'll just be at home for like a couple of weeks and like it will,
00:06:03 ◼ ► you know, we'll, we'll break it, you know, like, and then we'll be okay. And to my recollection
00:06:10 ◼ ► anyway, it got to like April, May and it was like, oh no, this is like, this ain't changing.
00:06:15 ◼ ► I thought it was just going to be a couple of weeks here. We just didn't shake hands and see
00:06:20 ◼ ► each other. Little did they know last years. Uh, yeah. Anyway, so new max next week. That's the,
00:06:34 ◼ ► busy, busy. Cause we've got all the point one releases next week. Apple have got earnings
00:06:40 ◼ ► on Thursday. So all this stuff's got a slot in somewhere. So I don't know what we're going to
00:06:47 ◼ ► get, but the, if the expectation right now is that there will be max, uh, we're going to have
00:06:52 ◼ ► John on the show next week with us. Uh, we'll talk about them for sure. For sure. Uh, do you
00:07:00 ◼ ► understand? Like, so again, part of all this, like Apple have said that the Apple intelligence begins
00:07:04 ◼ ► next week. Um, and because the release candidate point one is out, we'll talk about later on the
00:07:09 ◼ ► show too, but Joanna stands sat down with Craig Federighi to kind of talk about the Apple
00:07:13 ◼ ► intelligence stuff. There wasn't really anything particularly new in this, like, because she kind
00:07:20 ◼ ► of wouldn't, but I do find it interesting at the moment to just hear them talk about Apple
00:07:26 ◼ ► intelligence. Like, I don't know why, but like this, like is specifically interesting to me
00:07:31 ◼ ► to just hear Apple executives talk about it because I kind of want to get my head around
00:07:38 ◼ ► where they're at a lot at a time. Cause it's such a sticky, weird thing. Um, and I guess the main
00:07:47 ◼ ► thing that I found interesting about it is when they were talking about, he was talking about
00:07:52 ◼ ► photos. I can kind of like what Apple's doing with photos and how much more the competitors are doing,
00:08:00 ◼ ► I guess. Um, and I found that interesting, you know, saying like stuff that we'd heard before,
00:08:04 ◼ ► like there was a lot of internal debate about how much they would add and they just added catch up,
00:08:10 ◼ ► but like what they're not going to do is add generative stuff into photos. I thought it was
00:08:15 ◼ ► interesting. I got some breaking news for you. Okay. 18.2 developer beta is out right now.
00:08:22 ◼ ► And, um, this beta includes upcoming features powered by Apple intelligence. I'm pretty sure
00:08:37 ◼ ► I am done with it right now, but I won't be able to use it. You won't be able to use it.
00:08:42 ◼ ► Uh, we were planning today to talk about my experiences of Apple intelligence in iOS 18.1.
00:08:54 ◼ ► Mike is going to prompt Apple intelligence to create images during the show. That's what
00:09:00 ◼ ► we're going to do. Mike is going to create images. English UK is now in here too. So I'll be able to
00:09:04 ◼ ► change. Now you can. So I'm going to start that. It's apparently 25 minutes to download, so I'm
00:09:12 ◼ ► going to put it on the charger and see what we get by the end of the show. I'm not even sure why I'm
00:09:17 ◼ ► downloading it on my phone, but whatever. There might be. There might be changes in shortcuts,
00:09:22 ◼ ► you know, one, one, one feature for me, one changing reminders, one changing notes. Gonna
00:09:28 ◼ ► make me a happy boy, a little treat, a little treat for teaching a little treat, just a little treat.
00:09:35 ◼ ► I have a question for you. So people who listen to, uh, my other podcast cortex, they kind of
00:09:42 ◼ ► know that this time of year is a state of the apps time. So it's like where we go through all
00:09:48 ◼ ► the apps that we use and also share our home screens and stuff. And so usually as I'm preparing
00:09:52 ◼ ► for this time, I'm like cleaning up my home screens and I kind of did some consolidation
00:09:58 ◼ ► and ended up with spots for a couple of small widgets. And I was just wondering if you had
00:10:05 ◼ ► any recommendations for good and cool widgets, like good ones, cool ones, or good and cool widgets.
00:10:10 ◼ ► What do you mean good? Just like good. Just like good. Just like good ones. Just good ones.
00:10:25 ◼ ► Interesting. So are you looking for something like for productivity or stuff to just, because like,
00:10:31 ◼ ► I'm pretty sure that one of the cool ones that I've seen, um, maybe you're using it dark noise.
00:10:38 ◼ ► Is that the name of the app? Yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah. They have the white
00:10:44 ◼ ► noise app. They have some pretty cool, they have some pretty cool, um, home screen and control
00:10:50 ◼ ► center widgets that are interactive and they let you start playing, um, sounds from there.
00:10:55 ◼ ► See, the thing that I struggle with regarding widgets is that the type of widgets that I would
00:11:03 ◼ ► use all the time doesn't exist. I just want to have kind of like on Android, I think it's
00:11:09 ◼ ► possible. I just want to have a widget that, that I click on it and I stay on the home screen,
00:11:15 ◼ ► but I can type something with the keyboard. I just want to have something for quick entry.
00:11:20 ◼ ► And the only way that I can do it is via a shortcut. Um, that's the only way. I think you're,
00:11:27 ◼ ► um, I think you're unfortunately asking the wrong person because I, I, I have zero widgets on my
00:11:33 ◼ ► home screen. Right. That's not good. Um, and the ones that I do have in the today page,
00:11:39 ◼ ► like a schmuck are calendar reminders. Okay. I don't know why you're so bad at widgets,
00:11:46 ◼ ► but it turns out you're real bad at widgets. I am really passionate ones. If you have suggestions
00:11:52 ◼ ► for good and cool widgets, go to, uh, connected feedback.com and send them in. Cause I would like
00:11:58 ◼ ► them cause I was honestly expecting that Federico would have, uh, answers for me, but it turns out
00:12:03 ◼ ► he doesn't. So, uh, connected feedback.com. If you have suggestions for both good and cool widgets,
00:12:09 ◼ ► they must be good and cool. Um, I will give one suggestion of my own. The vitals, which is,
00:12:16 ◼ ► is pretty good and cool. I like it. It looks nice. And it's like, that's good information for me to
00:12:21 ◼ ► just have on my home screen. So that's a good and cool one. So if you have good and cool widgets
00:12:25 ◼ ► connected feedback.com to help your boy out. This episode of connected is brought to you by
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00:13:32 ◼ ► that's awesome. The same day appointments is so good. Like if I want a doctor's appointment,
00:13:36 ◼ ► I don't want to be on the phone for an hour, like in a line trying to arrange an appointment that I
00:13:40 ◼ ► might have in a month from now. I want to use my phone to book it. Like that's the way to do this
00:13:46 ◼ ► stuff. And then you can just go see your doctor. They also have virtual appointments too, which is
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00:14:12 ◼ ► So you published your iPad mini review. So you, we spoke about the iPad mini last week,
00:14:19 ◼ ► and in the meantime, you collected, collected, you sent one, which you may have collected from
00:14:24 ◼ ► somewhere. I don't know. And then you have also reviewed it. Um, not a lot to say about the
00:14:31 ◼ ► product, but I think you had a very good take on its kind of role in your life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:39 ◼ ► Thank you. And to be fair, it could have been a take about any, like it could have been the same
00:14:45 ◼ ► take for the old iPad mini. Yeah. It just so happened that I had this idea while thinking
00:14:49 ◼ ► about the new one, but it just, it also applies to the previous one. I guess it's, uh, yeah. It's
00:14:56 ◼ ► this idea of, uh, of a third place, right? It's, uh, I basically, I thought of this old commercial
00:15:01 ◼ ► for the PS2 directed by David Lynch of all people. Um, the idea being that, um, there's this concept
00:15:10 ◼ ► in sociology of a third place, um, in the sense that most people have a first place, their home,
00:15:15 ◼ ► they have a second place, their work, their office, whatever they go to work. And the third places
00:15:22 ◼ ► I've referred to as these usually social places where people go to to socialize with other people,
00:15:27 ◼ ► to spend time around other people. They can be bookstores, coffee shops, bars, clubs, theaters,
00:15:33 ◼ ► public parks, whatever. Um, and with that commercial in the year 2000, Sony wanted to sort
00:15:39 ◼ ► of, uh, sort of, uh, drive home this idea of the PlayStation two, thanks to its, its capabilities.
00:15:48 ◼ ► It can get you all these different third places, right? Uh, because of the boundless possibilities
00:15:54 ◼ ► created by video games, you can be, you can be an adventurer, you can be, uh, a race car driver,
00:16:02 ◼ ► you can be a spy, you can be, you know, you can be whatever you want because of, uh, you can have
00:16:08 ◼ ► a variety of third places. And that's why that commercial and the other commercials in that
00:16:13 ◼ ► campaign were so strange and odd, you know, combining multiple characters, very cryptic
00:16:18 ◼ ► vibe, which looked edgy and cool for the time. Uh, but that was the idea. And I was thinking about
00:16:24 ◼ ► this in the context of, as people, we still pretty much function along those lines. We spend time at
00:16:31 ◼ ► home, we have our responsibilities for work, and then we just hang out. Usually with other people,
00:16:41 ◼ ► how does that translate to the tech products that we use? And so I thought of this analogy,
00:16:48 ◼ ► you know, we have our phone, that is our primary device. Um, in a way it's our first place. We have
00:16:54 ◼ ► the second place that is our computer because that's where we do the work, right? Uh, most
00:16:59 ◼ ► people, I would say they do their work these days on a computer, whether it's a laptop or a tablet
00:17:06 ◼ ► or desktop, whatever. And then we like to spend time, uh, reading, watching movies, listening to
00:17:13 ◼ ► music, podcasts, playing video games, whatever. What device do we use for that? And I, I, and I'm
00:17:20 ◼ ► speaking from personal experience here, uh, just like in that Sony commercial, there's a variety of
00:17:25 ◼ ► third places. Uh, there's tablets. Some people have an e-reader. Others have a dedicated music
00:17:32 ◼ ► player. It can be a video game console. It can be, it can be a PC handheld. It can be a steam deck.
00:17:44 ◼ ► with something digital, right? Um, and so that's what, that's how I started thinking about the
00:17:49 ◼ ► iPad mini. I don't want to use it as an alternative to my iPad pro. I couldn't, even if I wanted to,
00:17:55 ◼ ► um, I don't want to use it as an alternative to my phone because my phone has my SIM card in it,
00:18:00 ◼ ► has my phone number. That's how people reach me. That's how everything else reaches me, right?
00:18:05 ◼ ► I just want to use the iPad mini as, as a third device, as, as a third place for just a handful
00:18:11 ◼ ► of tasks that are just for me, reading, usually articles, watching my YouTube queue, watching the
00:18:18 ◼ ► occasional TV show, you know, just streaming something in the device that is more comfortable
00:18:23 ◼ ► than my iPad pro and bigger than my iPhone. So that was the idea. And, um, and yeah, not that I
00:18:31 ◼ ► had a lot to say about everything else because the iPad mini is so similar. I mean, it's literally the
00:18:38 ◼ ► same chassis with just slightly different specs inside. I mean, a lot of this job at points is
00:18:46 ◼ ► finding stories about the technology. That's not the technology, right? Like that's, that's the
00:18:51 ◼ ► work, right? Like you could just write the very tech. You could just write a very technical review
00:18:58 ◼ ► about this product and that could be the end of it. But, but being able to communicate something
00:19:05 ◼ ► more interesting is what separates somebody who's good at this. Who's and who's not in my opinion.
00:19:17 ◼ ► that anybody could have a really interesting take, but I think that you had one just because of how
00:19:23 ◼ ► similar it is and like, and I don't think Apple is hiding that, right? Like this product exists
00:19:29 ◼ ► solely so they can have an iPad mini that has Apple intelligence on it, which I, I agree with
00:19:37 ◼ ► I believe they will do more, but for the time being, they just want to update this product
00:19:41 ◼ ► because it is a relatively expensive product to have a better chip in it. Um, because there are
00:19:52 ◼ ► have in them. So I'm, I'm happy that they did it. Um, the, the third place idea is really interesting
00:19:57 ◼ ► to me, especially in the contrast of the, um, the, the Sony ad that you're mentioning. Cause like,
00:20:04 ◼ ► it's more about like physical places and you talk about this a lot in the article too, right? Of
00:20:09 ◼ ► like the kind of the idea of this is like they're actually physical places, but our lives have
00:20:14 ◼ ► changed so much since that point. And really the devices are emblematic of, uh, social work. Um,
00:20:22 ◼ ► yes now more than ever. Right. And so I guess there is something particularly interesting
00:20:27 ◼ ► in the third place idea that it shouldn't, it shouldn't really have access to any of these
00:20:32 ◼ ► things. And I think it's the thing that you hear people talk about a lot, but not in these words,
00:20:37 ◼ ► whether like I want a Kindle because it has no apps on it, or I want to, you know, the, the thing
00:20:45 ◼ ► that every blogger has said forever in, in the history and forever into infinity, I want a
00:20:51 ◼ ► dedicated writing computer. Um, or similarly to like, you know, like what you're doing, like, I,
00:20:57 ◼ ► I want to set up an iPad that has different apps on it. It's like what I'm doing, right? We spoke
00:21:01 ◼ ► last week about my two iPads and one of them is set up with just a specific set of apps on it to
00:21:08 ◼ ► accomplish a specific type of work, which is in a physically separated part of my studio. And like,
00:21:16 ◼ ► that is its own place. And I feel like I was actually journaling about this today. Like I,
00:21:21 ◼ ► I have a different feeling when I'm working at that desk, it's actually just like very mentally
00:21:27 ◼ ► healthy and invigorating for me because I'm, I'm in this different place. Um, and just in general,
00:21:33 ◼ ► in my, in my studio, I have three distinct places, which is funny to think about. Well, four really,
00:21:40 ◼ ► I have a lounge area. I have my desk where I sit and work all day. I have the desk where I record
00:21:45 ◼ ► and then I have my product design desk. So like, I, I am definitely of the mind of like separating
00:21:50 ◼ ► these things out as much as you can. And I even similarly to a point have this for some apps,
00:21:57 ◼ ► like for example, if you take like me and Steven, we iMessage about personal stuff and we talk in
00:22:02 ◼ ► Slack about work stuff and we never cross them, which is, that is like a thing that I find to be
00:22:08 ◼ ► super valuable, um, to, to be able to maintain personal relationships with people that you work
00:22:13 ◼ ► with, to kind of like try and separate the work and the person a little bit. But anyway, and this
00:22:18 ◼ ► is like a long way around to say like, I really liked that idea. Do you, do you, I mean, obviously
00:22:23 ◼ ► there's more than three places now. I think that's the thing that has changed, right? Because we have
00:22:29 ◼ ► games consoles. Some of us have like 25 games consoles. Yeah. Um, some of us, some of us,
00:22:34 ◼ ► some of us, how is your second A.N. Oden? All I'm going to say is that there's going to be a
00:22:42 ◼ ► third one. I know there's going to be a third one. So that's, that's going to be interesting for you.
00:22:46 ◼ ► Um, but yeah, I, I thought it was just, I just thought it was, it's an interesting idea and
00:22:52 ◼ ► it is about, I think as our lives are like online lives and our real lives have become so
00:22:58 ◼ ► intermingled, especially in the last five years, just like in general, I think everybody feels
00:23:04 ◼ ► this way. And also like where you work may be different to where it was five years ago.
00:23:07 ◼ ► Um, the, the need to have a little bit of separation is good and I don't think it needs
00:23:14 ◼ ► to be a device though, right? Like I do think that Apple has done a good enough job now of being able
00:23:20 ◼ ► to let you customize devices with focus modes and stuff like that. Like there is an element of being
00:23:25 ◼ ► able to give something to give you even just one device, like a separate feel. Um, and you can do
00:23:31 ◼ ► certain things like an apps off in certain focus modes and stuff like that. So you could try and
00:23:36 ◼ ► create that third device on your iPhone or your iPad. But yeah, I think it's an interesting idea.
00:23:41 ◼ ► I like it. Yeah. Yeah. And I think obviously there's always, there's always going to be the
00:23:45 ◼ ► tension between, Oh, I want to be able to do everything on one device and be more minimalistic
00:23:52 ◼ ► with the, with the hardware that I use versus I just want to have dedicated devices, you know,
00:23:58 ◼ ► specialized devices each doing what it's supposed to do. And I don't think there's a right or wrong
00:24:05 ◼ ► answer. I think, and actually I, I even think it's okay to change how you feel about that
00:24:14 ◼ ► throughout your life. Like maybe there's a period of your life where you want to consolidate,
00:24:19 ◼ ► where you want to be more minimalistic and maybe there's another season of your life where you just
00:24:24 ◼ ► want to be, you know, you want to take the, the, the, the maximalist approach and be like, I want
00:24:29 ◼ ► to have a dedicated device for every single thing I do and be very specialized in the computers that
00:24:34 ◼ ► I use. I don't think you're supposed to, I think it's okay. It's okay to be fluid in that sense
00:24:40 ◼ ► with the technology that you use. And so maybe I enjoy using the iPad mini now. Maybe I want
00:24:46 ◼ ► in a year and that's fine. I think, I think we, we have gotten so, especially this is especially
00:24:53 ◼ ► a thing in the Apple community where you're supposed to make a decision and stick with it.
00:24:56 ◼ ► It's silly. It's a silly thing. Use whatever brings you joy in any season of your life and
00:25:03 ◼ ► move on if it doesn't anymore. That's what I think. Yeah. I mean, this isn't the podcast for it today,
00:25:08 ◼ ► but I think that in general, there is a mentality that it feels like in, in today's society that
00:25:23 ◼ ► you, you hinted at this in your cortex episode, like the follow-up to AI. Yeah. Uh, like it's so
00:25:28 ◼ ► silly. Like when the reality around you changes so quickly, why are you supposed to stay the same?
00:25:35 ◼ ► Yeah. Right. It's silly. So I guess social media should be ephemeral. And, uh, is I guess is the
00:25:44 ◼ ► statement that I'm making, which I do believe in. I kind of think any social media should be, uh,
00:25:48 ◼ ► something that sticks around forever. Uh, thank you, Jack Dorsey for creating that, uh, idea for
00:25:54 ◼ ► us that, that, that tweets would not delete. And here we are. Uh, so anyway, this iPad mini, the
00:26:02 ◼ ► jelly scrolling, I cannot see. Apparently the only person who can see the jelly scrolling is David
00:26:07 ◼ ► Pierce at the verge. Um, maybe David should look into that. Um, wifi 16 instead of wifi six,
00:26:17 ◼ ► Apple pencil pro. I do think that, I mean, I haven't seen one of these iPad minis yet, but I,
00:26:23 ◼ ► I can imagine a scenario in which it is still there, but is, is, is significantly fixed
00:26:30 ◼ ► because lots and lots of displays have this problem, but it's, it's, it's mostly imperceptible.
00:26:36 ◼ ► And if David's seeing it, maybe David is just more, um, sensitive to it. Like in a way that like,
00:26:44 ◼ ► you know, Steven can't use promotion kind of thing, you know, maybe some people could just
00:26:48 ◼ ► see it more than others, but it does seem like from reports from people who have had it and also
00:26:55 ◼ ► reports of reports of reports of conversations, like Jason Snell had happened to him, uh, that,
00:27:02 ◼ ► uh, um, that Apple seems to have addressed it, even though they're not specifically saying as
00:27:08 ◼ ► such, but Hey, they've made some changes to the display controller or whatever. Right. That's,
00:27:13 ◼ ► that's how they answer. Yes. Um, but yeah, I mean, right now this iPad mini is going to be
00:27:19 ◼ ► without a case. The tablet that I keep on my nightstand. Why not? Why not? Okay. So I like the
00:27:24 ◼ ► smart folio a lot. I just, I like it. I like it, but the way I'm going to use it, this device is
00:27:31 ◼ ► not going to travel. Um, it's one less thing I need to like physical thing I need to carry about,
00:27:44 ◼ ► take out the smart folio. Like anyway, I'm just, I'm just not going to use it. So I use my phone
00:27:49 ◼ ► without a case. Why should I use my iPad mini with a case? Yeah, no, I agree with that. I do think
00:28:00 ◼ ► that's fine. Like in that they can stand, you know what I mean? You can like stand an iPad,
00:28:03 ◼ ► but if you don't need that, that's great. And then also it makes the device feel thinner if
00:28:08 ◼ ► you don't have a case on it. Exactly. That's nice. That's nice. Yes. Maybe put a pop socket on it,
00:28:19 ◼ ► so help me out here. Do they leave residue in the back when you stick it? You have to stick it,
00:28:32 ◼ ► sticky glue? I have, when I was using them stuck, they were micro suction. I don't know what they're
00:28:40 ◼ ► using for adhesive now, because now I just use the MagSafe ones. Right. But there's no MagSafe.
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00:30:48 ◼ ► called the EUEs, where we made a selection of picks based on what we thought could happen
00:32:14 ◼ ► So I spent a bunch of time today, Federico. I did. I spent some time on both of our behalf,
00:32:20 ◼ ► digging through, I had a horrible morning, digging through the support documents on the
00:32:27 ◼ ► developer forums and the developer website to try and see if anything had changed of any of this
00:32:43 ◼ ► Mac rumors. It's Mac rumors, not stories. They talk about rumors, not stories. You talk
00:32:47 ◼ ► about stories, not rumors. A couple of quotes. So there have been changes to the CTF. The
00:32:53 ◼ ► CTF has, in fact, been considerably altered. First, independent and small developers who
00:32:57 ◼ ► are no revenue at all will not have to pay the CTF. Second, to address fears of the CTF
00:33:04 ◼ ► causing outrageous fees for an app that suddenly goes viral, Apple has implemented a three
00:33:10 ◼ ► year on-ramping process for small developers. Okay. So it has been considerably altered,
00:33:16 ◼ ► but... Not for... Especially for... Especially for web distribution. There have been zero
00:33:27 ◼ ► changes that are specific for web distribution. This is not a point. But Federico, we're not bound
00:33:45 ◼ ► The CTF has been considerably altered. I think it's a half point. But we don't have... We don't
00:33:52 ◼ ► do half points. There are no rules for this game. We can do whatever we want. I can give you 15
00:33:57 ◼ ► points for that. Okay. There are no rules. So this is half a point. It's a half point. I say
00:34:04 ◼ ► that's a half point. Finally I get my half point. Take your half point. You got a half point.
00:34:08 ◼ ► There are no rules. We established zero rules for this game. So I say that is a half point for you.
00:34:15 ◼ ► I've been waiting for a half point for half my life, really. I do think we used to give half
00:34:22 ◼ ► points, which is why we ended up getting rid of half points. Oh, the sweet scent of a half point.
00:34:27 ◼ ► Yeah, because there are no rules. My first pick was member of good standing, language removed.
00:34:33 ◼ ► So this was the idea that for web distribution, you had to be "a member of good standing" in the
00:34:38 ◼ ► app store. Is it still in there? Yeah. Yeah, they still talk about that. So I found this today.
00:34:46 ◼ ► It says to be a member in good standing of the Apple developer program for two continuous years
00:34:51 ◼ ► or more. This is one of the ones where I believe the EU has been like, you can't say that, but
00:34:59 ◼ ► nothing's changed yet because they're kind of... The last that I paid significant attention to DMA
00:35:07 ◼ ► stuff because I've decided to take a little bit of a mental break from that wheel because they
00:35:11 ◼ ► just don't find it to be very enriching. Really, it seems like that currently the EU and Apple are
00:35:17 ◼ ► in a bit of a... They just cracked their heads together and nothing's changed. The EU is like,
00:35:24 ◼ ► you're in breach of a bunch of stuff, but hasn't kind of handed out anything yet. It's the last
00:35:28 ◼ ► that I remember. And one of the things that they pointed to was this member of good standing thing,
00:35:33 ◼ ► but nothing's changed yet. And so Apple's still saying that you have to be a member of good
00:35:37 ◼ ► standing. So there's zero points for me. Steven said developers aren't required to use Apple's
00:35:46 ◼ ► scary screens for alternate payments and linking out to the web for purchase. These are still in
00:35:51 ◼ ► place. This is I think another thing that is still kind of being contested as to wherever they can do
00:36:00 ◼ ► this, but currently in the developer documentation, they still have the... I think they're called PSPs,
00:36:07 ◼ ► which is always funny to me. They're called PSPs. I'm trying to find what it stands for,
00:36:14 ◼ ► but I think it's like purchase. It's my favorite console of all time. Something. Oh, no, it's...
00:36:19 ◼ ► PSPs are like the payment service providers, but they're like the payment service provider screens.
00:36:25 ◼ ► And it still says this app doesn't support the private and secure payment system. You're
00:36:30 ◼ ► going to be going out to... So it's got all of that language in there still, so they haven't
00:36:34 ◼ ► removed those. So at the end of round one, you scored half a point. Okay, good. Nice. Round two.
00:36:42 ◼ ► My pick was Phil Schiller replaced as head of the initiative. No. As far as we're aware,
00:36:50 ◼ ► that has not happened. For all we know, Phil is still hanging in there at the DMA table.
00:36:58 ◼ ► I mean, at the beginning of the year, he was giving a bunch of quotes about it. We haven't
00:37:02 ◼ ► really heard anything about it since, but we haven't gotten anywhere so far. Okay. What did
00:37:10 ◼ ► you say next? Mine is the CTF is removed for fully free apps. They did that, right? We said that?
00:37:18 ◼ ► I mean, yeah. Half a point to you. I think it's kind of, because the language is independent and
00:37:26 ◼ ► small developers who earn no revenue at all will not have to pay the CTF. Okay, so somebody else...
00:37:32 ◼ ► It's fully removed in some circumstances, but not all circumstances. I would agree with you.
00:37:39 ◼ ► I think that's half a point, Federico. Half a point. I love this anarchy. Half a point.
00:37:44 ◼ ► I'm really great at that. I think this is fantastic. And Steven's round two was changes
00:37:56 ◼ ► Steven's pick... I don't know why we allowed the word in this, because it's like not all what he
00:38:00 ◼ ► was... It does not describe what he was talking about. Today, I had to go back and listen to this
00:38:05 ◼ ► part of the podcast from when he made the pick. What he was talking about was... And it's funny,
00:38:11 ◼ ► because he made his pick and then my immediate thing was to him, what does that mean? And then
00:38:15 ◼ ► he explained what he actually meant. So I don't know why we just kind of let it roll the way
00:38:19 ◼ ► that it did. But what he was talking about is, let's say you have Delta installed, right? And
00:38:26 ◼ ► from the app store, and you download Alt Store, and then you download Delta, that one should
00:38:34 ◼ ► replace the other. That does not happen. What he wanted is that apps installed from other sources
00:38:39 ◼ ► could just update themselves over another app. And that seems to also not been changed at all.
00:38:45 ◼ ► And in fact, I found wording that said that, when they're talking about what happens if you go away
00:38:51 ◼ ► for a month or whatever, that you will lose your access to your applications and you have to
00:38:59 ◼ ► re-download them from another store if you move or whatever, and you may lose data. So they haven't
00:39:04 ◼ ► changed that either. So essentially, the main change is that CTF did get altered. And because
00:39:11 ◼ ► of that, we both score half a point and Steven score zero points. Good, good, good. That's what
00:39:16 ◼ ► he gets for being away. That is what he gets. No half points. Yeah. Yeah. Take that as a sabbatical.
00:39:23 ◼ ► No half points. Yeah. How'd you like that now? Cool. So we won, right? Is that the conclusion?
00:39:31 ◼ ► I think so. I mean, okay. And I think, let me take a look here. So what do we get? What do we get
00:39:38 ◼ ► for winning? Um, nothing, but we'll both walk away with half a point. This is the saddest
00:39:49 ◼ ► victory ever. We got nothing because we got two half points. There's a lot of conversation in the
00:39:55 ◼ ► discord, as you can currently imagine that these things will go about what the actual scoring rules
00:40:00 ◼ ► were for this. I don't remember setting any scoring rules. No, no, we didn't. I don't think,
00:40:04 ◼ ► but whatever the scoring rules are, me and you both got half of what it could have possibly been.
00:40:10 ◼ ► Yeah. Me and you, we got half of the truth and we will share the victory. Yeah. How about that?
00:40:16 ◼ ► Yeah. This is a, this is a useless victory to be fair, but it's still a victory. So, you know,
00:40:25 ◼ ► when you close your laptop today and you go home and you'll be on a train, you'll be thinking, man,
00:40:32 ◼ ► I want something today. It doesn't mean anything, but I want. It doesn't mean anything, but I want.
00:40:50 ◼ ► It all kind of stopped. Now, to be honest, it's not like in Europe you can expect regulators to
00:40:57 ◼ ► be working in the summer, right? Especially in central Europe. So maybe things will pick up again
00:41:06 ◼ ► before Christmas, but realistically, if it's like in Italy, you have a month before people start
00:41:14 ◼ ► taking time off again. And, uh, we'll talk about it again in mid January. We'll see. I feel like
00:41:22 ◼ ► as well that there's just like enough stuff has happened that basically somebody needs to do
00:41:28 ◼ ► something now. Like someone needs to do something significant. Either the EU needs to actually find
00:41:34 ◼ ► them or Apple needs to say, screw you. Like one of these things has to happen now, I think for there
00:41:40 ◼ ► to be any meaningful actual change to this scenario, because all it has been for like the
00:41:47 ◼ ► last year or whatever, it's just, how about this? No. How about this? No. And that's just
00:41:53 ◼ ► going to carry on forever. Like one of them needs to actually make some kind of big statement to
00:41:59 ◼ ► make, I feel like some kind of significant change. I'm not necessarily saying I want any of those
00:42:04 ◼ ► things to happen, but like something, something significant needs to occur to move this forward.
00:42:15 ◼ ► I was thinking about the 30% cut. I think about it a lot. I was just like, just imagine just
00:42:22 ◼ ► like WWDC. And they're like, look, we have some news. We're changing it. Like it would just,
00:42:32 ◼ ► the vision pro app store, and I was thinking about AR glasses and like an AR app store.
00:42:38 ◼ ► And like, they need to change that dynamic. That dynamic has to change to be able to move forward.
00:42:51 ◼ ► and then there are these Apple glasses and like metal is like, come do what you want on our store,
00:42:57 ◼ ► like whatever, we're cool. Which it's not how they work right now, but they could do that if
00:43:01 ◼ ► they want to. I think that could cause a problem. And so I just feel like they could, but I don't
00:43:08 ◼ ► think it's going to happen, but I just want them to do it. I just want them to just loosen it.
00:43:30 ◼ ► So there was a wall street journal profile of Tim Cook, which I have not read the entire thing yet.
00:43:35 ◼ ► I've just been reading little bits and bobs of it so far, but there is an article on The Verge
00:43:40 ◼ ► written by Wes Davis, which is also a great article because Wes tries to live their life
00:43:48 ◼ ► the best that they can, like somebody who just uses every Apple product imaginable. It's a fun
00:43:53 ◼ ► take on this article, but it's coming from a quote in the wall street journal magazine,
00:43:57 ◼ ► where this is a quote from the article. While discussing his daily routine, Tim Cook told Ben
00:44:04 ◼ ► Cohen in this W sorry, this is a combo of from The Verge and the wall street journal. So I read it
00:44:09 ◼ ► from The Verge. While discussing his daily routine, Tim Cook told Ben Cohen in the WSJ magazine
00:44:14 ◼ ► interview that he every day uses every product. In the story, he mentioned specifically using an
00:44:22 ◼ ► iPhone, an Apple watch, AirPods, and then for work, two different Mac books, an iMac, a vision pro,
00:44:28 ◼ ► and an iPad pro. This is every day. Tim Cook every day uses an iPhone, an Apple watch, and AirPods,
00:44:35 ◼ ► two different Mac books, an iMac, a vision pro, and an iPad pro. Okay, so the first half is okay.
00:44:42 ◼ ► I also use an iPhone, an Apple watch, and AirPods every day. Yeah. It's the second part of the
00:44:49 ◼ ► sentence. Yeah. Now again, very aware of the fact that we've both said that we use multiple iPads,
00:44:55 ◼ ► right? And like, so, you know, that's, that's on us. We're basically Tim Cook, but I don't know
00:45:00 ◼ ► why you need two different Mac books. I don't know what that's for. So let's assume that you
00:45:07 ◼ ► have one Mac book at home and one Mac book on your desk. But then, then why are you using a laptop at
00:45:14 ◼ ► all if you're not taking it with you? Don't know. The problem is two Mac books plus an iMac. Yes.
00:45:20 ◼ ► Plus an iPad pro and a vision pro. Okay. So maybe the vision pro you're using at night.
00:45:25 ◼ ► Let's just say that Tim Cook, and he said that before he watched Ted Lasso on the ceiling,
00:45:31 ◼ ► I believe that was a quote from, from last year or this year. Um, where do the two Mac books,
00:45:39 ◼ ► an iMac and an iPad pro go during the day? That's what I don't understand. It's all those computers,
00:45:48 ◼ ► especially the, because the iPad pro maybe is walking around Apple park, holding an iPad pro,
00:45:56 ◼ ► you know, he likes to take it, to take his walks and he's doing email, walking, you know,
00:46:00 ◼ ► grabbing an iPad pro as a tablet, you know, with a pencil, but the two Mac books plus an iMac,
00:46:15 ◼ ► I kind of want to say publicity stunt. I don't think it's a publicity stunt, but I think it's
00:46:18 ◼ ► like, yeah, sure. I use everything, you know, I mean, uh, maybe look, you don't have to say you
00:46:29 ◼ ► use two different Mac books, right? Like that, that's the thing of like to say, like I use an
00:46:35 ◼ ► iPhone and Apple watch AirPods, a Mac book and iMac vision pro and iPad pro like that fine.
00:46:40 ◼ ► But it's the two Mac books thing that I'm getting stuck on. Cause I'm like, what, what do you,
00:46:52 ◼ ► iMac. Like I kind of, why is he just not using one of his laptops plugged into a studio display?
00:46:57 ◼ ► Does he use a studio display? You know, like I want to, I want to know more. This is the thing,
00:47:09 ◼ ► By and large, it would be pointless. Let's be realistic, right. In the sense of I might enjoy
00:47:14 ◼ ► it, but everyone's going to be unhappy, right? Cause I'm not going to be able to get answers to
00:47:19 ◼ ► any of the questions you want. Like I'm not going to be able to get an answer from him about the DMA,
00:47:23 ◼ ► let's say right. Like we all know the pitfalls of these things. Like you're not actually going to
00:47:28 ◼ ► get answers to questions that you, that people, that the listeners want you to get because
00:47:34 ◼ ► Apple is not going to give that information willingly, right? That information is given
00:47:40 ◼ ► when they choose to give it. You can't just say to them, tell me about this. People think that
00:47:46 ◼ ► if you just ask these questions, you'll get answers, which is just madness, right? Like
00:47:50 ◼ ► people have no idea how these interviews work. Yeah. That's the problem. You can ask whatever
00:47:56 ◼ ► you want, but they're just going to say, I'm not going to answer that. And so like, then you've
00:48:00 ◼ ► wasted everybody's time. It's never going to be part of the interview that you see or listen to.
00:48:08 ◼ ► That's just not how it works. Yeah. And like, uh, yeah. Yeah. People have no idea. And also,
00:48:17 ◼ ► I mean, at least for me, I don't, I don't feel the need to go around making enemies of people.
00:48:22 ◼ ► Like I don't want to be combative, right? Like I don't want to sit down with Tim Cook and then
00:48:26 ◼ ► make him like annoyed at me. Now I am CEO of the biggest company in the world. I am going to make
00:48:32 ◼ ► you willingly uncomfortable. That's what I'm going to do with my life today. And I will never be able
00:48:36 ◼ ► to interview you again in the future. And yeah, that's a, that's a solid plan. Why not? But anyway,
00:48:56 ◼ ► that everybody else puts their right hand on the AP style guide and their left hand to the sky and
00:49:01 ◼ ► make some kind of statement. I don't know. Do you think that's how, that's how they do. Do you think
00:49:05 ◼ ► that's how Steven did it? Probably. Right. Right. Okay. Probably. But what I would want to ask him,
00:49:12 ◼ ► like, if I got the opportunity to speak to Tim Cook, I want to ask him about this, right? Like,
00:49:19 ◼ ► I want to go through in minute detail how he uses his products every day. Like, what is he doing on
00:49:27 ◼ ► them? Like, what devices he pick up first in the morning? What does he do on it? Where does he do
00:49:33 ◼ ► his email? Where does he send these messages? Like, and there is some of that in this article,
00:49:37 ◼ ► right? Where like they're talking about the group threads. Did you catch this? He's like,
00:49:41 ◼ ► oh, do you ever name your group threads? He's like, oh, I can name my group threads. He's like,
00:49:44 ◼ ► I have one with my roommates. I've now called it roommates. Incredible. That's what I want. And I
00:49:49 ◼ ► do like that Ben Cohen got some of that stuff out of him, but like, I, that's what I want. So Apple,
00:49:55 ◼ ► if you're out there and you want Tim Cook to talk about exactly how he uses all of his devices every
00:50:00 ◼ ► day, call me and that's all we'll talk about. And I tell you what, that'd be the most interesting
00:50:05 ◼ ► interview I could get out of the man. Like, I know that for sure, because we'd all have a good time.
00:50:10 ◼ ► We'd nerd out about like the benefits of one screen size over another, you know, it would be
00:50:20 ◼ ► I'm still thinking about those two MacBooks plus an iMac plus an iPad Pro. I cannot get over that,
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00:52:29 ◼ ► ExpressVPN for the support of this show and Relay. So next week, iOS 18.1 is coming out and the
00:52:39 ◼ ► release can set us out. And we mentioned it earlier, iOS 18.2 is now out and my phone is
00:52:45 ◼ ► very hot but it is installed. So I have that there from if and when we want to get to that because
00:52:50 ◼ ► I've not even done anything with it yet. I don't even know where to start. Like I don't know where
00:52:54 ◼ ► to go or what to start with but maybe you can help me with that. But you wanted to know a little bit
00:53:00 ◼ ► about how I have been using Apple intelligence, I think. Yeah. So ask me what you want to know.
00:53:06 ◼ ► I don't know. I was just, because I think, you know, I've been talking to John about it
00:53:19 ◼ ► like, is Apple intelligence something that you use on a regular basis? Is Apple intelligence
00:53:24 ◼ ► something that if you went into settings and turned it off, is it something that you would
00:53:31 ◼ ► miss immediately? Or like what's your relationship with it? How much do you use it? Has it become
00:53:37 ◼ ► something you rely upon or just is it still a gimmick? Like I want to know, yeah, how you live
00:53:43 ◼ ► with it, how you work with it. Well, I think at this point there would be features that I would
00:53:49 ◼ ► miss and there would be features that I wouldn't. Like I could just go do something else. Like I
00:53:55 ◼ ► could just use something else. So I think the features that I would miss would be summaries
00:54:02 ◼ ► and like these are summaries of various things. So I have come to really like the notification
00:54:08 ◼ ► summary stuff. Um, it is not perfect. Like that's for sure. Right? Like there's some stuff that it
00:54:15 ◼ ► summarizes where really the thing that is being summarized like this app probably shouldn't
00:54:22 ◼ ► have summarization applied to it because it just doesn't make sense. Like for example, I have an
00:54:27 ◼ ► example, right? Um, I'm going to turn this off because it doesn't work for me. Like I have
00:54:32 ◼ ► notifications for overcast. They just go into my notification center. So like I can see when
00:54:37 ◼ ► new podcasts that I like have posted and overcast notifications have the episode description in them,
00:54:46 ◼ ► right? Now, episode descriptions for two different podcasts merged together doesn't make sense
00:55:01 ◼ ► the episode description for today's episode of The Pen Addict that me and Brad made because
00:55:12 ◼ ► The Retecory Daily Update. And like one is about pens and pencils and one is about technology.
00:55:18 ◼ ► So like when they are put together as if it's one source of data, they're so disparate from
00:55:24 ◼ ► each other that it doesn't make sense to summarize it because what it does, so I will read this to
00:55:31 ◼ ► you. Netflix's margin expansion highlights its business model differentiation. Ticonder October
00:55:38 ◼ ► continues with pencil kit build out. Like one is about Netflix, the other is about Brad's pencil
00:55:45 ◼ ► case. Now like together, that isn't helpful, right? But there are lots of things that are,
00:55:53 ◼ ► like the best ones by far are like the home kit stuff, right? So like I have, I get a notification
00:55:59 ◼ ► from my front door is open and closed. And you know, prior to this feature in point one, I would
00:56:08 ◼ ► just tap it and there'll be like a list of 20 things, right? Maybe during a day. But now I look
00:56:14 ◼ ► at it and it's like multiple statuses have changed for the door. It was most recently closed. That
00:56:19 ◼ ► is just like a good piece of information to get from the notifications. Like that is a better
00:56:27 ◼ ► notification than door closed plus 20 more, right? I think that there is a benefit to that.
00:56:35 ◼ ► And similarly, like if somebody sends me a long slack message, it summarizes it. That is helpful
00:56:43 ◼ ► because I can get a sense of what the message is in one sentence. Like by and large, most of these
00:56:52 ◼ ► things are good. Like I will say there are a lot of viral ones and even in that interview that I
00:56:57 ◼ ► mentioned earlier with Joanna Stern and Craig Federighi, Joanna brought up, there was like
00:57:01 ◼ ► somebody who got a bunch of messages where they were broken up with and it was like super stum,
00:57:06 ◼ ► or it was like relationship is over request for requesting stuff to be picked up or something like
00:57:11 ◼ ► that. And Craig was like, and Craig did a great job answering this. I think he was like, yeah,
00:57:16 ◼ ► I mean, that is a bit like straightforward, but also it's not great to be broken up with by text
00:57:20 ◼ ► anyway. So there's kind of no good way in which you're going to get that information. And I was
00:57:24 ◼ ► like, that is a great answer. Cause like, okay, the notifications got condensed, but you would
00:57:30 ◼ ► have just seen a notification where it would have said, I'm sorry, but it's over. So like,
00:57:42 ◼ ► I feel the same about you get these for email summaries now too. So, um, there are two ways
00:57:47 ◼ ► that you can get summaries of emails and like seeing the, the, in my inbox, right? You get a
00:57:54 ◼ ► list of messages and you can choose to have a summary of the message as the preview. A summary
00:58:00 ◼ ► of the contents is better to me than just seeing hi Mike, how are you over and over and over again
00:58:06 ◼ ► from different messages, right? Like getting a message instead of seeing like the preview of like,
00:58:12 ◼ ► hi Mike, how are you to be like, you know, this message includes details about the order and it
00:58:17 ◼ ► has an invoice like that. It's just a better preview, right? Then the ways in which people
00:58:23 ◼ ► would start an email. Um, so I like that. I think that is good. I also like that a lot of marketing
00:58:28 ◼ ► emails that I get, sometimes it would be like, uh, talking about a new product line. It includes
00:58:33 ◼ ► the 20% discount code. I'm like, well, that one's maybe interesting to me because it's,
00:58:38 ◼ ► I can see that there's, there is stuff going on in this email. So I like that. And similarly,
00:58:44 ◼ ► when you're in an email, you can press the button to summarize it for you. And for some email
00:58:48 ◼ ► newsletters that I subscribe to, I will press that button to kind of get an overview of what is in
00:58:53 ◼ ► the email to decide if I want to dig into any of the topics. Cause I subscribe to some of my
00:58:58 ◼ ► newsletters where I don't feel the need to read everything. Um, I think that is healthy. Like,
00:59:04 ◼ ► I'm not like, I'm just going to read all of it. Uh, and before I would be like, if I don't have
00:59:09 ◼ ► the time for this, I'm just going to have to get rid of it. But now if I don't have the time,
00:59:13 ◼ ► I can get a quick summary to see if maybe I do want to jump three, two thirds down the email
00:59:18 ◼ ► to read this one thing. So I like it for that too. So the summary stuff is my favorite and like it.
00:59:24 ◼ ► And if that was gone, I would miss it. That's kind of the only thing currently that I would
00:59:40 ◼ ► you know, like the writing tools that are built into the system. I find them good for proofreading.
00:59:45 ◼ ► Uh, I like the condensing feature to kind of just make something shorter. And, but the best one I
00:59:50 ◼ ► think is making a list of stuff. Like that's just helpful because making lists is annoying. Like if
00:59:55 ◼ ► you have like a bunch of texts and you want to turn it into a list, being able to say, like,
00:59:59 ◼ ► press one button, make this a list. That's just like a great feature for a computer to do. And
01:00:03 ◼ ► like computers don't do a good job of that. And like that, this is like a good thing for your
01:00:07 ◼ ► computer to just be like, here's a list for you. Right. Right. Um, I find the tone of some of the
01:00:15 ◼ ► rewriting stuff, you know, like we're like, make this happy, make this serious to just be way over
01:00:19 ◼ ► the top. Like they need to dial that tone back. Like I, if I've ever tried to get a tone change
01:00:26 ◼ ► on something, like I'm like, you know, I write something out and like write this in a cheerful
01:00:29 ◼ ► way or a professional way. I feel like they go way too extreme in that tone request. And like
01:00:37 ◼ ► what I like about a tool like chat, GPT for this is you can specify yourself what that tone should
01:00:47 ◼ ► be. Right. So like you can say, write this in a such and such tone. And I'd like one of the things
01:00:53 ◼ ► that I like to do when I'm doing these tools is like, keep my style of writing, but just make this
01:00:58 ◼ ► better. And I find that to be pretty good. And this is where I feel tools like this are better.
01:01:04 ◼ ► And I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong. I think that I have actually made some tweaks like
01:01:09 ◼ ► that for 0.2. Yeah. It seems like you can now prompt, uh, the system for, to ask for more
01:01:19 ◼ ► specific changes. Um, this is something that I'm going to try and understand how it works as we are
01:01:26 ◼ ► doing the show now. I. Oh, writing tools. This is describe your change. So that's just at the top.
01:01:33 ◼ ► So previously you would just use the buttons and now it's now you can just type in a prompt.
01:01:41 ◼ ► So here's a fun fact for you. Here's a fun fact for you. Tell me. I logged out of my Italian app
01:01:50 ◼ ► store account, logged in with my old existing US Apple ID. I can use Apple intelligence.
01:02:02 ◼ ► So I requested access to image playground, which is a separate cue it seems. And Apple intelligence
01:02:10 ◼ ► is now downloading. That's what it says in settings. Um, and I got writing tools in notes.
01:02:15 ◼ ► I'm also signing into chat GPT. Oh, look at this. This is what I wanted. You have an option
01:02:23 ◼ ► to confirm chat GPT requests. Where do you get this? So chat GPT is in the Apple intelligence,
01:02:31 ◼ ► like, uh, settings. There is an option called extend Apple intelligence in Siri. It's like a
01:02:37 ◼ ► one of, it's like halfway down the page. I guess I don't have it because it's still downloading.
01:02:42 ◼ ► Yeah. And so you've got chat GPT and I get an option says, Siri says confirm chat GPT requests
01:02:47 ◼ ► and it's turned on. So I will turn that off because I don't, I want it to get that information
01:02:52 ◼ ► for me and I've signed in anyway, so it will have my stuff. Cause that's how you do this. Cause also
01:02:57 ◼ ► at the bottom of writing tools now it says compose. And that is where you can just straight up
01:03:04 ◼ ► whatever you want. Right. Write me a message about this, you know, so I can be like, oh,
01:03:10 ◼ ► here we go. I'm going to do this in a group chat. Uh, who is Federico Fittici? So I've just put that
01:03:17 ◼ ► into, into writing tools in iOS and it composes a message, which is working right now. Oh,
01:03:23 ◼ ► interesting. So I'm doing the setup for chat GPT. There's now a setup screen for chat GPT
01:03:33 ◼ ► not highlighted by default. You can use chat GPT with an account. Yeah. I've signed in.
01:03:50 ◼ ► I think that they did say something about this, that there was some benefit to signing in,
01:03:55 ◼ ► but I have an account, so I've just signed in anyway. Maybe it saves my questions. I don't know.
01:04:00 ◼ ► But like now I just sent this in our group thread. I just said, who is Federico Fittici?
01:04:05 ◼ ► And it just gave me a chat GPT. Uh, straight up composed from nothing built in to basically
01:04:13 ◼ ► anywhere in the system. Okay. So can you describe with two truths and one lie? Oh, interesting.
01:04:23 ◼ ► What a way to describe that. Who is Mike Hurley? I've never thought to ask an AI a question in that
01:04:29 ◼ ► way. That's hilarious to, to, to be like, give me two truths and a lie. That's fascinating. No,
01:04:34 ◼ ► unable to create content at this time. Oh, no lies. They're not allowed lies. No lies. Again,
01:04:41 ◼ ► this might be cause stuff's downloading for you. Yeah. Yeah. Stuff is downloading. I guess there's
01:04:46 ◼ ► a big asterisk to all of this conversation, which I'll say to you and I'll say to the rest of the
01:04:50 ◼ ► listeners, like, like it or I hate it. I'm using it, right? Like I understand why people don't
01:04:56 ◼ ► like it. I feel like I've made it very clear that I wished that Apple would have done things
01:05:00 ◼ ► differently. I wish that all of these services would have done things differently, but I,
01:05:05 ◼ ► considering these things exist, I am using them and I want to see what they can do for me.
01:05:09 ◼ ► And I have found many ways in my professional life that these tools do help me like today to try and
01:05:17 ◼ ► dig through to get the answers and the DMA stuff. I was beginning my searches with chat GPT and then
01:05:23 ◼ ► going out to the links that it was providing because searching Google was terrible. Like
01:05:28 ◼ ► any of these services that are attached to the internet are better search engines than Google.
01:05:37 ◼ ► They just are. This is the case for perplexity. This is the case for chat GPT. I know how bad
01:05:44 ◼ ► they are. I want them to pay the price for the copyright lawsuits. I want them to lose. I want
01:05:51 ◼ ► them to have to pay because they have stolen stuff. But if we just ignore that for a second,
01:05:55 ◼ ► these are better search engines than Google. I've not used Gemini. I'm sure like Gemini is good, but
01:06:02 ◼ ► I find it easier to get what I'm looking for by asking these services than by Googling it because
01:06:09 ◼ ► Google, like a straight Google search, it's looking for the words I'm searching, but that isn't always
01:06:15 ◼ ► going to get me the answer, right? Like having a level of understanding and interpreting and being
01:06:21 ◼ ► able to do thousands of searches, right? However many searches it's doing gets me the answers that
01:06:27 ◼ ► I want. And so anyway, but I don't need to argue my point for now. Siri, I like the UI, right?
01:06:36 ◼ ► Right. But that's kind of it. It's going off. I'm sorry. I knew that was going to happen because I
01:06:42 ◼ ► was way too forceful in the way that I said that. The UI is nice, but like it's incredibly
01:06:47 ◼ ► inconsistent and it's still pushing me to the web. Now, again, I am hoping that that is about
01:06:52 ◼ ► the change of 18.2 because I do believe some of the things that I ask, and it's like, I'm going
01:06:58 ◼ ► to go to the web for you. If it just sent that question to chat GPT, I would get the answer I
01:07:02 ◼ ► wanted. And like my hope is now with 0.2, which again, it would not use in enough detail, that
01:07:09 ◼ ► that is going to be a significant change in the usefulness of this assistant. That you can ask it
01:07:15 ◼ ► complex questions and it gives you an answer rather than saying, I searched this on the web for you.
01:07:21 ◼ ► Like I think that is going to be hugely beneficial, but I have to see how it goes. Something that is
01:07:34 ◼ ► whose messages they look at to try and understand these replies because I have never once spoken
01:07:40 ◼ ► the way that these messages want me to speak like absolute psychotic behavior. Like it says bananas,
01:07:48 ◼ ► like, haha, comma, that's funny, exclamation mark. If I sent that message to anybody that knows me,
01:07:55 ◼ ► they would think my phone had been stolen because I don't write like that. I believe my theory on
01:08:02 ◼ ► this, this is just a theory. My theory on this is that this is the exact same system as like
01:08:08 ◼ ► the predictive replies before, but they've just, they've made it look like Apple intelligence
01:08:13 ◼ ► because I can tell zero difference. And I feel like you have every message I've ever sent,
01:08:19 ◼ ► put it into an LLM. That would be great, right? Just put it into an LLM that's on device for me.
01:08:26 ◼ ► You can basically just help me write my messages. It would make my own autocorrect better, right?
01:08:34 ◼ ► Because it would be autocorrecting in the way that I speak. That's what I hope they will do one day.
01:08:42 ◼ ► Why not? You have, I have given this device hundreds, I think a million iMessages. I think
01:08:48 ◼ ► it says I've sent millions of iMessages for sure. That is, you have every way I would ever speak to
01:08:54 ◼ ► someone like that is the true smart reply. That's not just at that point. It's not just replying,
01:09:00 ◼ ► like giving me options on how to reply. That is like straight up, you know what I would say to
01:09:06 ◼ ► this question, right? It's kind of scary if you think about it, like you know how to fake me if
01:09:11 ◼ ► you wanted to. Sure, but I think it's fine as long as I am able to decide to send it. Oh yeah, right?
01:09:17 ◼ ► That you can just, you can give me a response to this, like you know me, so help me. Because
01:09:23 ◼ ► currently the smart replies, which it's already showing me, there's no point in being there because
01:09:28 ◼ ► they're of zero use. Like the most I've ever done is tap one and then edit it, which is like at this
01:09:35 ◼ ► point I might as well just written the answer myself. Mail's priority messages I don't find
01:09:42 ◼ ► to be reliable or have any kind of discernible pattern as to what is considered to be a priority
01:09:46 ◼ ► message. It just doesn't really seem to do anything. And then I think the last thing that
01:09:53 ◼ ► I've used is the memory stuff in photos. Mail just got the new design in 18.2 by the way. Oh sick.
01:10:01 ◼ ► Yeah, I'm looking at it now. Now that is an 18.2 thing, right? 18.2. Not just an Apple intelligence
01:10:07 ◼ ► thing. Yeah, look at that. Categories. I don't know. Mail categories. I've got primary,
01:10:14 ◼ ► transactions, updates and promotions. That's what I have. No, I'm a bit, I'm already confused by it,
01:10:23 ◼ ► so I'm gonna have to look, because for example I have one message that is in both transactions
01:10:27 ◼ ► and primary. Sure, why not? No, why would, and it even has a little transactions icon next to it.
01:10:32 ◼ ► No, why would it do that? Finds the messages that matter most. Oh, in primary and organize everything.
01:10:39 ◼ ► I need to dig into that, but I'm excited about that feature in general because I like email,
01:10:45 ◼ ► all the email apps do this. Like mail should do this. Like I should not have to see receipts in
01:10:50 ◼ ► my main inbox. You should know it's a receipt. Put it somewhere else. I think that's great.
01:11:03 ◼ ► So chat GPT integration I'm excited about because I just want to see what that's all about.
01:11:07 ◼ ► I'm intrigued about priority notifications, which I don't know if it's going to be in point two,
01:11:11 ◼ ► because I've been playing around with the reduce interruptions focus mode. I think it's interesting.
01:11:17 ◼ ► I haven't, I'm not using it fully yet because I'm waiting until I install all of this stuff on my
01:11:22 ◼ ► Mac too, because I don't want to be on a focus mode that one device can't understand. Even though
01:11:28 ◼ ► weirdly, one of my focus mode options on my Mac is reduce interruptions, even though I'm not running
01:11:34 ◼ ► point one, it's like it's doing its thing out there. But like, I think that that could be
01:11:39 ◼ ► interesting. And I feel like I I've been using it, um, on my cortex brand iPad. I've had it on
01:11:44 ◼ ► all the time and I think it does do a decent job of surfacing some stuff. And so I'm intrigued to
01:11:50 ◼ ► see how priority notifications works. Um, I'm genuinely horrified about image playgrounds. Like
01:11:57 ◼ ► I just, I, I, I've requested access and I have to wait. So this is, there's probably gonna have to
01:12:03 ◼ ► be something we follow up on next week. Um, I requested access immediately, but I don't have
01:12:12 ◼ ► we have visual intelligence, which have, which I don't really understand what I'm supposed to do
01:12:17 ◼ ► with this. Um, I'm supposed to walk around, walk around them pointed stuff. I can, you know,
01:12:23 ◼ ► when I tap this iPhone captures what's in view and sends the information to chat GPT for information,
01:12:30 ◼ ► visual intelligence with camera control, learn about the objects and places around you and get
01:12:34 ◼ ► even more information about what you see. Okay. So there's two buttons. Oh, this is hilarious. So I
01:12:40 ◼ ► just showed it my desk, which has a play date on it. Uh, and it says this image features a desk
01:12:46 ◼ ► set up of a Game Boy Advance SP. Uh, for me, it's searched for a poster that I have, and it said,
01:12:54 ◼ ► I'm going to search with Google and they provided Google search results to similar products,
01:12:59 ◼ ► or I'm going to take the picture again and ask. And the ask button does nothing because I guess
01:13:06 ◼ ► Apple intelligence is still downloading on my device, but I can use half the things and the
01:13:12 ◼ ► other half just doesn't work. Here's the thing. The fact that I can hold my phone up to anything
01:13:18 ◼ ► and ask chat GPT what it's looking at and then can follow up with questions. This could actually be
01:13:24 ◼ ► pretty interesting. I'm going to point my phone at your profile picture. Oh, interesting. I'm
01:13:32 ◼ ► going to search. No, it's just finding pictures of computers. Okay. Well, I've done it to you.
01:13:39 ◼ ► I've taken, I've taken, I've just scanned my picture and it says, this is a digital profile
01:13:44 ◼ ► picture of a man with curly hair and a beard set against the warm colored background. The use of
01:13:50 ◼ ► vibrant hues suggests an attempt to convey an approachable and friendly demeanor possibly
01:13:54 ◼ ► used in social media or communication platforms. Do you feel like that's a good description of
01:13:59 ◼ ► what you're looking at? Yeah, I think so. Is it friendly and approachable? I'm going to press the
01:14:03 ◼ ► search image button, which does a reverse Google image search, no results. So we're doing our best
01:14:09 ◼ ► over here. I think that the Google image search part is genuinely pointless. Um, I think that
01:14:15 ◼ ► they just didn't want this to be the chat GPT phone. Like what, what is the use of a Google,
01:14:21 ◼ ► a reverse Google image search like realistically, like, is that that compelling of a thing? I don't
01:14:28 ◼ ► think so. To be fair, to be fair, doing reverse Google image searches on mobile has always been
01:14:36 ◼ ► kind of challenging. So now at the very least, now you have a quicker way to get to those. Um,
01:14:49 ◼ ► right. Instead of just like, here's some web results for you. Uh, so far when I wanted to do,
01:14:56 ◼ ► uh, Google image searches, I've been using the Google app on my phone. Yeah, I guess it's Google
01:15:01 ◼ ► lens really, isn't it? So I might be, I might be giving a short shrift there, but at the moment,
01:15:06 ◼ ► every time I've pressed the searching with Google button, it hasn't really gotten me much of what
01:15:12 ◼ ► I'm looking for. Okay. I just put it to a candle I have on my desk and it, and it immediately gave
01:15:16 ◼ ► me the candle. So, okay. I can see some use for that. I see personally more use in the chat GPT
01:15:23 ◼ ► thing because you can kind of be like, Hey, what am I looking at here? You know, like how you would
01:15:27 ◼ ► use it on the Ray-Bans, but again, I need to, we need to spend more time with this. I mean,
01:15:31 ◼ ► the image playgrounds and the, I assume gemmoji is part of that. Um, I don't have access to any
01:15:37 ◼ ► of that yet. So we'll see. But, uh, I'm, what I'll say is like, just looking at what they've added
01:15:42 ◼ ► here, 18.2 is significantly more interesting than 18.1. I would agree with that. There is a lot more
01:15:50 ◼ ► in here and I think a lot of it is the chat GPT stuff is unlocking a bunch of functionality. Um,
01:15:57 ◼ ► they, they, they, they should have, I'm going to say it again. Uh, they should have waited.
01:16:08 ◼ ► The staged rollout, I feel like, and the whole strategy of pitching the new iPhone says built
01:16:16 ◼ ► from the ground up with AI. I, it obviously comes from a place of maybe not fear is the right word,
01:16:23 ◼ ► but it comes from a place of concern, right? Of being left behind compared to the rest of
01:16:29 ◼ ► the industry. Yeah. Years from now, and maybe not even years from now, maybe even months from now,
01:16:46 ◼ ► instead of rationing out of the door with 18.1 and then following up quickly with 18.2.
01:16:51 ◼ ► At the same time, I also think this slow drip of AI features, it works in their favor from a PR
01:17:04 ◼ ► perspective probably because they continue, they remain in the cycle of the news. So there are
01:17:12 ◼ ► pros to that approach, I think. Um, and I just wanted to say something if you'll allow me before
01:17:19 ◼ ► we wrap up sort of a more of a, can I before, cause I know this is going to be a real good,
01:17:23 ◼ ► big point. I just want to say one last thing that I've noticed. This is, and I think is very smart
01:17:28 ◼ ► UI. So now the emoji search field in the keyboard says describe an emoji, right? So you will start
01:17:36 ◼ ► typing the emoji that you want and it will search the emoji that's there. Or if there's no result,
01:17:41 ◼ ► it's like, would you like to create an emoji? That is clever. That is clever. A British man.
01:17:48 ◼ ► Well, it's not going to let you do it because you got to ride in a motorbike once you create an
01:17:57 ◼ ► emoji, create new emoji. I was like, it's not going to work yet, but I think that is, that's,
01:18:06 ◼ ► that is very clever user experience design, I think, um, to combine those two things together.
01:18:11 ◼ ► And there is also a specific button that you can press to just go straight into that mode.
01:18:16 ◼ ► But I think that is going to be a way that a lot of people are going to discover that this feature
01:18:25 ◼ ► I just wanted to say something. I think a lot of people are under the impression that, um,
01:18:31 ◼ ► because I had opinions, so this is circling back to what we said toward the beginning of the show,
01:18:35 ◼ ► because I had opinions months ago, and I still do, uh, about how the training data was used for AI,
01:18:41 ◼ ► not just for Apple intelligence, but for all kinds of other companies, um, that because of
01:18:46 ◼ ► that opinion, I will, um, bury my head under the sand for the next five years and never talk about
01:18:53 ◼ ► AI. That is not my plan. That is not what I am going to do. Um, I think people can hold, um,
01:19:07 ◼ ► about something about someone, and even though they are conflicting, you can still hold those
01:19:14 ◼ ► two thoughts. And so, um, I think it's, it was important for me to take a particular stance,
01:19:21 ◼ ► uh, regarding, regarding training, regarding, uh, the danger of AI for creative people. I do believe,
01:19:29 ◼ ► I still do believe there's real danger. There's we're, we're seeing the stories every day.
01:19:34 ◼ ► There's real danger to the idea of enabling a whole generation of kids and younger adults like
01:19:41 ◼ ► us, you know, um, to just generate content without the help of a professional. That's something that
01:19:50 ◼ ► I think at the same time. And again, that's one opinion at the same time. I also think there's
01:19:56 ◼ ► real value in using this technology with my data after my consent on my phone or on my iPad to say,
01:20:10 ◼ ► app intent, for example, coming out next year. These are the apps that I'm using, uh, use my
01:20:16 ◼ ► data to train your model, right? And help me out here because I need to remember something that I
01:20:22 ◼ ► don't remember. I think what we are witnessing is so unlike anything we have experienced as people
01:20:32 ◼ ► who follow tech over the past 15 years, right? Um, and to, to have one opinion and sort of have it
01:20:42 ◼ ► become your brand forever, um, is so dangerous right now, which is why I think, you know,
01:20:51 ◼ ► strapping because it's going to get weird, right? I'm going to have opinions about AI and then I'm
01:20:55 ◼ ► going to use AI and it's all going to happen in the same bucket of a person. You know, it's all
01:21:01 ◼ ► going to happen together. Uh, and it's okay. I think it's okay. I genuinely think it's okay to,
01:21:07 ◼ ► to believe something about AI and take advantage of the things that work for you because the other
01:21:11 ◼ ► reality is, and this is where I'm going to wrap up. The reality is in the near future, this train
01:21:20 ◼ ► ain't stopping. Like this is, this is happening. Like this keeps going like, like it or not,
01:21:27 ◼ ► this is what's going to happen realistically for the next few years. Does that mean I need to,
01:21:35 ◼ ► you know, uh, just, uh, accept it, you know, shut up and accept the things I don't like? No, no,
01:21:43 ◼ ► but it also means, do I want to become irrelevant? Do I want to become the kind of person who just,
01:21:49 ◼ ► you know, like, ah, everybody else is writing about AI? I don't care. I'm going to be writing
01:21:53 ◼ ► about wired earbuds forever. No, it does, it doesn't mean that. It means now more than,
01:22:00 ◼ ► in fact, now more than ever, because of this technology, we need people advocating for,
01:22:07 ◼ ► um, for, for the ethics of AI, advocating for proper training practices. Now more than ever,
01:22:14 ◼ ► we need opinions and you got to play the game. That's, that's how I'm going to sum it up.
01:22:23 ◼ ► You got to play the game if you want to change the game. I agree with you. Like this is,
01:22:27 ◼ ► I think this is, um, I'm actually very happy to hear you say this and I don't think you would,
01:22:32 ◼ ► I personally don't believe, and I won't be people that agree with this, but I don't believe that
01:22:40 ◼ ► Right. I think that, and, and I do believe that there is a path, I don't think anyone's going to
01:22:47 ◼ ► take it, but there is a path to use new tools ethically, like create new tools ethically.
01:22:57 ◼ ► Yeah. Um, I see this comment in the discord, uh, that I think is interesting and I want to address
01:23:04 ◼ ► before we, before we end the episode, um, um, scary music boy, great username. Um, I think
01:23:12 ◼ ► vocally not talking about it is an incredibly powerful stance if you don't approve of it.
01:23:16 ◼ ► Yes and no. Uh, because from, from, uh, from, uh, if you look at this problem with, with the end
01:23:25 ◼ ► goal being, I want change or I want, you know, such and such result, what is more effective?
01:23:46 ◼ ► I can create an image of a Nazi with your tool. Like what is more effective to end up with a
01:23:53 ◼ ► better product? Because clearly as an individual, right, myself, or maybe somebody else like me,
01:24:00 ◼ ► obviously objectively almost, I would say, uh, I don't have the power in my hands. I don't think
01:24:06 ◼ ► nobody does. Not even NKBHD does. I don't have the power to single handedly stop the entire tech
01:24:13 ◼ ► industry from shipping AI, right? Nobody does. If you don't talk about it, it will not change
01:24:19 ◼ ► anything. If I don't talk about it, it doesn't change anything. However, there is a small chance
01:24:24 ◼ ► that if I do talk about it and complain about the things that don't work, maybe that will have an
01:24:31 ◼ ► effect. You're able to shift the course of the ship. You cannot drop the anchor. Yeah. Like,
01:24:41 ◼ ► look, individually, we're pretty much powerless here. Like we're literally talking about
01:24:59 ◼ ► are we going to just sit in silence and switch to Linux, you know, become that person? We could do
01:25:06 ◼ ► that. Some people have done it. The most Linux I can get in my life is the Steam Deck, personally.
01:25:14 ◼ ► Or there's another way. And the other way is get your multiple opinions in order because you're
01:25:22 ◼ ► going to need them. So that's my take. I don't know. I don't know. I'm a work in progress.
01:25:29 ◼ ► Everybody's a work in progress. And that's fine. If you were expecting your favorite content creator
01:25:35 ◼ ► to be a fully formed person, that's not the case. I just, I think realistically, I mean,
01:25:50 ◼ ► which is that like, no one's going to be happy here. And we're just moving forward together.
01:26:08 ◼ ► And we are all just trying to work our way through this new era of technology together.
01:26:20 ◼ ► moving forward, doing whatever it is we're going to try and do. We're all just poking at the walls,
01:26:26 ◼ ► whether they're tiny walls or big walls, like we're all just like, we're trying to work out
01:26:31 ◼ ► what we're comfortable with. I don't think that people should be persecuted for those decisions,
01:26:37 ◼ ► like using chat GPT is not a crime. Maybe the way that the information was harvested was a crime,
01:26:44 ◼ ► but like, I'm not responsible for that crime. And maybe there's ethical stuff in there. Yeah,
01:26:49 ◼ ► there is. We all have our own ethical lines of this. I just think that it's too difficult to
01:27:10 ◼ ► it stopped at chat GPT, is requesting additional details. So chat GPT can't catch me. Chat GPT
01:27:17 ◼ ► doesn't want to describe you. Or maybe, or maybe you're so unique, you cannot be described. Yep.
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01:27:58 ◼ ► episode. If you want to find Federico online, he's on Mastodon. He is vitichi@maxstories.net,
01:28:05 ◼ ► and you can also find him over at maxstories.net and on the many podcasts. I think just go to a
01:28:10 ◼ ► podcast app and search Federico and just see what comes up. Maybe there'll be something new for you