Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC]

00:00:07 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 512.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors, ZocDoc, Vitaly,

00:00:16 ◼   ► and 1Password Extended Access Management.

00:00:19 ◼   ► I am St. Jude Creator Achievement Award winner,

00:00:22 ◼   ► Steven Hackett, and I'm joined by St. Jude Creator Achievement Award winner, Mike Hurley.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Hello, I am St. Jude Creator Achievement Award winner, Mike Hurley,

00:00:32 ◼   ► and I would like to introduce the one true John, John Voorhees, who's back again.

00:00:37 ◼   ► I'm just John. I mean, I don't have a title like that.

00:00:41 ◼   ► One true? One true is the title.

00:00:44 ◼   ► It's not quite the mouthful that you guys have, but hey, all right.

00:00:47 ◼   ► No. Federica's still not dead.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I think it's important to reference that as is referenced.

00:00:56 ◼   ► This is not an act of succession.

00:00:58 ◼   ► This is an act of vacation because it's the summer.

00:01:02 ◼   ► And look, if you've been listening to this show for long enough,

00:01:05 ◼   ► you know Federico in the summer.

00:01:07 ◼   ► He's here, he's back, he's here, he's back.

00:01:08 ◼   ► He's told us he'll be back and he's back for good, I think was the wording that he used.

00:01:13 ◼   ► So next week, so we can all look forward to that.

00:01:15 ◼   ► He told me that too.

00:01:16 ◼   ► There's a rhythm to summer with Federico.

00:01:18 ◼   ► There's definitely a rhythm.

00:01:20 ◼   ► And look, I support a man's desire for vacation.

00:01:24 ◼   ► I do too.

00:01:25 ◼   ► I support that.

00:01:27 ◼   ► I just came back from one myself, you know.

00:01:28 ◼   ► I really wish that I was on vacation this week.

00:01:31 ◼   ► This was a thought that I realized a couple of days ago where I thought,

00:01:35 ◼   ► oh, I should have booked a vacation for this week, but I didn't.

00:01:38 ◼   ► You should have.

00:01:39 ◼   ► And so here I am.

00:01:39 ◼   ► All your friends were on vacation last week and you guys were working.

00:01:43 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:01:45 ◼   ► But I'm taking a long weekend this weekend.

00:01:47 ◼   ► That's what we're going to do instead, just like a London staycation.

00:01:51 ◼   ► But really, I should have had a vacation booked, but I didn't.

00:01:55 ◼   ► But I'll figure that out later.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Stephen, what is the St. Jude Create Your Achievement Award?

00:01:59 ◼   ► Well, that's something that you and I were given last weekend at the Relay 10 event,

00:02:04 ◼   ► which I'm sure we're going to talk about in a second.

00:02:06 ◼   ► But during that event, we announced our sixth annual St. Jude campaign.

00:02:12 ◼   ► Our fundraiser we're going to do for them is going to start August 28th, so just four weeks away.

00:02:16 ◼   ► But in announcing that, you and I were surprised.

00:02:20 ◼   ► And it was like genuine surprise.

00:02:21 ◼   ► In fact, one of the photos that somebody submitted at relay.fm/photos,

00:02:25 ◼   ► I have this look on my face like a kid getting a Christmas present.

00:02:28 ◼   ► It's like I didn't know it was coming.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Yes, you and I were awarded this for our work raising money and awareness for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital.

00:02:39 ◼   ► And it's this very lovely, very heavy glass piece.

00:02:43 ◼   ► And now it's in my office.

00:02:44 ◼   ► It's a very, very legit thing.

00:02:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:46 ◼   ► It feels significant.

00:02:48 ◼   ► It's more than a paperweight.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Yes, it was very big.

00:02:52 ◼   ► It could be used to weigh down a lot of paper.

00:02:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:55 ◼   ► Or someone's life.

00:02:57 ◼   ► Yeah, you could really commit a crime with it.

00:02:59 ◼   ► We could.

00:03:00 ◼   ► We won't.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Maybe that's why Federico's not here.

00:03:02 ◼   ► We dropped the Creator Award on him and that was the end.

00:03:07 ◼   ► Poor Federico.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Yeah, so we just had our 10th anniversary show.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Thank you so much to everybody that was there.

00:03:14 ◼   ► The audio of this event is available now in the Departures feed, which is where we put live shows.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Steven, I've already on a couple of shows this week spoken about Relay 10.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And I thought I would want to ask you what Relay 10 meant to you a little bit if you wanted to share with a connected audience.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Oh man, it was incredible.

00:03:34 ◼   ► I mean, the company turning 10 is this amazing thing on its own.

00:03:38 ◼   ► I'm sure we'll talk more about it because the actual anniversary is a couple weeks from now.

00:03:41 ◼   ► But being in this like sold out theater with 11 or 1200 people was awesome.

00:03:49 ◼   ► And we haven't done one of these since 2019.

00:03:51 ◼   ► And it meant seeing a lot of people we work with for the first time in a long time.

00:03:56 ◼   ► It was just it was so good and so much fun.

00:03:59 ◼   ► And I had a blast.

00:04:01 ◼   ► And thank you for planning it all.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Like I'm sure people who listen to backstage and our other membership stuff know you planned all this.

00:04:08 ◼   ► And you and Adina did all the legwork and made it all happen.

00:04:12 ◼   ► And it was it was incredible to be able to like walk in and be like, this thing is ready to go.

00:04:18 ◼   ► I have not had that experience before during our live event.

00:04:22 ◼   ► So thank you for making it special for everybody else.

00:04:25 ◼   ► It was a pleasure.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it was it was the best night of my professional career.

00:04:31 ◼   ► Like it was extra special to me, right?

00:04:34 ◼   ► Being in London, like it made it like it took it like a level further for me.

00:04:40 ◼   ► And it was just like that St. Jude award is like the cherry on the top.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Like it was already incredible.

00:04:47 ◼   ► And then to be given that too, it's just like, like, just absolutely wild.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Like this was yeah, it was absolutely fantastic.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I don't think it could have gone any better.

00:04:57 ◼   ► And I'm gonna I will apologize now for the fact that I will be posting photos from this event for like the next six months on Instagram.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Because there's so many great photos that people are sending in.

00:05:09 ◼   ► And so yeah, I'm just gonna be just posting so many of these.

00:05:13 ◼   ► It was just man, what a time.

00:05:15 ◼   ► What a time.

00:05:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it was really cool.

00:05:17 ◼   ► It was great to have our families there.

00:05:19 ◼   ► It's great to have our coworkers there, our colleagues from St. Jude.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Just all in all, just a real amazing experience.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And, you know, it was really cool.

00:05:32 ◼   ► I suggest everyone start a company and let it run for 10 years.

00:05:36 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:37 ◼   ► Well, as someone who was there watching it, I loved it.

00:05:41 ◼   ► I mean, it was a lot of fun.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I didn't make it to your fifth anniversary show in San Francisco because it was kind of in the middle of review time for us at Max Stories.

00:05:52 ◼   ► And so this was my first time seeing you do kind of your Family Feud style thing live in person.

00:05:57 ◼   ► And I loved it.

00:05:59 ◼   ► And it was a lot of fun.

00:06:00 ◼   ► The crowd was very into it.

00:06:01 ◼   ► I didn't see a single person who wasn't didn't have a big smile on their face and walked out of the theater happy and looking like they had enjoyed themselves.

00:06:09 ◼   ► We did a standing for the rules, which was like which was a day of show edition, which was incredible.

00:06:16 ◼   ► That was fantastic.

00:06:19 ◼   ► It was good.

00:06:19 ◼   ► My family were very confused about the stuff.

00:06:24 ◼   ► They stood, but they had no idea why they were doing it.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Right.

00:06:29 ◼   ► Is it time for the Pledge of Allegiance?

00:06:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I did.

00:06:32 ◼   ► I had to explain to my mom and my brother, like, this is just the thing that they do.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Just go along with it.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Yeah, that.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Yeah, man.

00:06:41 ◼   ► It was so good.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Such a good time.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Let's do some real follow up, Steven.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Real follow up dot MP3 dual display support has come to the M3 14 inch MacBook Pro.

00:06:56 ◼   ► So people may remember that when the MacBook Pro was updated with the M3, there was a lot of like hand wringing because the base model system on a chip only will push two displays.

00:07:09 ◼   ► And so on the notebooks, that means the built in display plus one external.

00:07:13 ◼   ► People are like, no, it's a pro laptop.

00:07:16 ◼   ► You need more than one external display.

00:07:18 ◼   ► Look at this new character.

00:07:20 ◼   ► And this prompted Apple to say, no, we're going to have a software update.

00:07:26 ◼   ► And that came with Mac OS Sonoma 14.6, which shipped just a couple of days ago.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And now the MacBook Pro with M3 will run two external displays while in clamshell mode.

00:07:41 ◼   ► So it doesn't allow three displays magically.

00:07:43 ◼   ► The system on chip is still limited to two, but if your laptop is closed, you could run two studio displays or whatever you wanted.

00:07:51 ◼   ► So yeah, Apple made good on this.

00:07:53 ◼   ► What they said.

00:07:54 ◼   ► And here we go.

00:07:57 ◼   ► When you read this headline, will you like me reminded that this was the thing that was like, oh, yeah, they did say that.

00:08:06 ◼   ► I completely forgotten about it.

00:08:08 ◼   ► This was introduced for the MacBook Air.

00:08:11 ◼   ► So this this was the timeline.

00:08:12 ◼   ► The machine was released in October of twenty three.

00:08:15 ◼   ► It was like spooky Halloween event Apple did that was fun.

00:08:18 ◼   ► And then the MacBook Air was updated and it had it.

00:08:22 ◼   ► And that's when people really like what you could do with an air, not a pro.

00:08:25 ◼   ► And so that was in March.

00:08:27 ◼   ► And so it's been since March.

00:08:28 ◼   ► There's only been three months as Apple said it, but, you know, almost nine months since the machine was released.

00:08:35 ◼   ► Anyways, all all buttoned up now.

00:08:37 ◼   ► And if you're running Sonoma fourteen point six, I guess probably be the last major build, you know, unless something unexpected happens.

00:08:45 ◼   ► We're getting close to the end for the Sonoma cycle, I think.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I would think so.

00:08:50 ◼   ► I would think so.

00:08:51 ◼   ► I mean, I mean, you'd hope so.

00:08:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it's August.

00:08:55 ◼   ► It's August tomorrow.

00:08:58 ◼   ► True.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Mike, tell us about your AirPods.

00:09:03 ◼   ► Vindicated.

00:09:04 ◼   ► I got so I got so much follow up, like via the feedback form and on social media for people that have the exact same AirPods issue that I do.

00:09:13 ◼   ► There were a lot of people who were trying to helpfully tell me about conversational awareness.

00:09:18 ◼   ► That's not what I was talking about.

00:09:20 ◼   ► That is a feature that I choose to use.

00:09:22 ◼   ► This is it.

00:09:23 ◼   ► But lots of people experience the same thing as me of basically feeling like your AirPods reboot.

00:09:30 ◼   ► And I have not found any scenario from anybody sent in to reliably solve this.

00:09:37 ◼   ► It tells me that there is a widespread enough issue that something's going on either with AirPods, with AirPods firmware or with its connection to the iPhone.

00:09:47 ◼   ► And so I'm kind of just hoping that something will get fixed in the future.

00:09:52 ◼   ► But yeah, it's still happening to me and it seems like it's happening to many of the passionate ones.

00:09:56 ◼   ► So I feel vindicated in that at least.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Have you started a gate?

00:10:02 ◼   ► What would it be?

00:10:05 ◼   ► Connected gate, connection gate.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Connection gate?

00:10:10 ◼   ► I like connected gate.

00:10:12 ◼   ► Let's do that.

00:10:12 ◼   ► No, no, we don't need to drag the show into it.

00:10:14 ◼   ► No, no, no, no.

00:10:15 ◼   ► No, we definitely do.

00:10:16 ◼   ► Connected gate.

00:10:16 ◼   ► I don't particularly want the clicks, you know, because I've seen what happens to people's lives when they have a gate for clicks.

00:10:27 ◼   ► And wow.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Steven, come on.

00:10:33 ◼   ► If I was going to do it for the clicks, it would have been a much better video.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Steven, it wasn't not for clicks.

00:10:41 ◼   ► It wasn't.

00:10:41 ◼   ► It was to educate the public.

00:10:45 ◼   ► I don't think it was super well.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Yeah, it was like a weekend thing.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I remember.

00:10:50 ◼   ► I recorded that.

00:10:52 ◼   ► Okay, so if people don't know, I had a gate once.

00:10:54 ◼   ► And there's like the seven second video on YouTube I recorded literally in my bedroom with a phone doing a thing.

00:11:02 ◼   ► And you could hear like birds chirping in the background because I recorded it in my bedroom on a Saturday for a blog post.

00:11:08 ◼   ► But, you know, these things are not helping.

00:11:10 ◼   ► There is a rule.

00:11:12 ◼   ► We've talked about this before.

00:11:13 ◼   ► And John, I know you're aware of this too.

00:11:15 ◼   ► There is a relationship between the amount of time and energy you put into a project on the internet and sometimes how successful it is.

00:11:23 ◼   ► You can work really hard at something and no one care at all.

00:11:27 ◼   ► Or you film a seven second audio clip in your bedroom on a Saturday morning and it ends up on Good Morning America.

00:11:35 ◼   ► Like sometimes those things happen on the internet.

00:11:38 ◼   ► This is one of those.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Look, 2016 was a different time for all of us, you know, and sometimes you just, you know, you just put something on YouTube, right?

00:11:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:54 ◼   ► And sometimes then it finds its way to NBC News.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:11:57 ◼   ► But my grandmother saw the news and called my mom wondering if I was in trouble.

00:12:00 ◼   ► I mean, you weren't not.

00:12:02 ◼   ► I wasn't in trouble.

00:12:04 ◼   ► You weren't not in trouble.

00:12:05 ◼   ► Like this is, I had a thing once, you know, I had a thing once with a, it was nowhere near this, but it was like something about an iPhone home button and gloves.

00:12:18 ◼   ► Like it was like the first capacitive home button.

00:12:21 ◼   ► And I realized like, oh, it won't work if there's any kind of material in the way.

00:12:26 ◼   ► And that like became like a, it was nowhere, nowhere near this, but it was that moment.

00:12:31 ◼   ► And just like people writing articles about my tweet was like, yeah, I'm going to stop doing this.

00:12:37 ◼   ► And I think Hissgate stopped even from doing this too.

00:12:40 ◼   ► You kind of realize that it's not worth it.

00:12:42 ◼   ► Like, unless what you really want is to generate this.

00:12:46 ◼   ► There are people who this is what they want.

00:12:48 ◼   ► Right?

00:12:48 ◼   ► Like, click.

00:12:49 ◼   ► And like clickbait is not about misleading people.

00:12:52 ◼   ► It's just about trying to get attention for something.

00:12:56 ◼   ► Right.

00:12:56 ◼   ► And there are people whose careers are benefited by that.

00:13:01 ◼   ► I'm definitely not.

00:13:02 ◼   ► I don't believe Steven is either.

00:13:04 ◼   ► I mean, I am definitely not because all I do is podcasts.

00:13:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:13:08 ◼   ► And like clickbait does not help podcasts.

00:13:10 ◼   ► And of course, you know, the two of you both right.

00:13:13 ◼   ► And headlines, you do want a catchy headline to bring in people to an art call.

00:13:17 ◼   ► But catchy podcast titles I do not believe encourage listening.

00:13:22 ◼   ► It's extremely hard for a podcast to go viral.

00:13:27 ◼   ► And when they do happen, it happens in politics sometimes.

00:13:31 ◼   ► You know, someone says something they shouldn't.

00:13:34 ◼   ► It's always actually just like video YouTube interview shows.

00:13:37 ◼   ► It's not what we do as podcasts.

00:13:39 ◼   ► What we do is pretty antiviral, if you will.

00:13:45 ◼   ► The only clickbait that I can find success in in podcasting is naming a podcast episode after a video that Grey has done.

00:13:53 ◼   ► That works pretty well.

00:13:55 ◼   ► Sure.

00:13:56 ◼   ► OK.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Aside from that, if we name an episode of Cortex the name of the video he just published, it tends to do pretty good.

00:14:03 ◼   ► I'm sure.

00:14:05 ◼   ► Outside of that, kind of nothing really.

00:14:08 ◼   ► If I just put state of the, that also helps me.

00:14:11 ◼   ► I look forward to the next episode of Cortex, the simple solution to traffic.

00:14:15 ◼   ► Or Canada and the United States bizarre border.

00:14:20 ◼   ► We may have done that.

00:14:21 ◼   ► I'm not kidding.

00:14:22 ◼   ► We may have done that.

00:14:23 ◼   ► Like, I actually don't know.

00:14:24 ◼   ► Like if we spoke about that video, we probably named it that.

00:14:28 ◼   ► That's kind of like a thing we have done.

00:14:30 ◼   ► Man, 40 million views.

00:14:33 ◼   ► That's wild.

00:14:35 ◼   ► So it helps, you know, to be successful.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Like, look, we have one here, like making, or we do this, like making and then the name of the thing.

00:14:45 ◼   ► So we're like making the interstate's forgotten code in February 2022.

00:14:49 ◼   ► That's good.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Or call the episode AI Art Will Make Marionettes of Us All Before It Destroys the World.

00:14:55 ◼   ► That was a good title.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:58 ◼   ► And it also generated a lot of views, but they weren't happy people.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Speaking of clickbait articles and headlines, this is maybe the best headline I've written in quite a while.

00:15:18 ◼   ► This was published on June 26th.

00:15:21 ◼   ► I'm just a simple Macintosh user asking a bazillion dollar company for a better way to move tasks between lists and reminders.

00:15:28 ◼   ► And I'm very happy to say that macOS Sequoia now includes the ability to move tasks between lists and reminders more easily.

00:15:40 ◼   ► This is now example three or four, I think, of me asking for things for reminders and app that I don't use to be fixed.

00:15:48 ◼   ► Do you secretly work on the reminders?

00:15:50 ◼   ► No, I think he does.

00:15:52 ◼   ► But I run to the press every year and write a blog post and they've done this.

00:15:56 ◼   ► So now in the inspector and reminders and Sequoia, you can swap the list that a task is on.

00:16:03 ◼   ► Thank you, reminders team.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I would suggest that anybody who wants some feature in any OS that Apple makes just send an email to Steven.

00:16:12 ◼   ► That's what I do now.

00:16:14 ◼   ► I don't use the feedback app.

00:16:16 ◼   ► I ask him to write an article and that's because it seems to work.

00:16:20 ◼   ► Thanks, Steven.

00:16:21 ◼   ► Thank you for your service, you know.

00:16:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:23 ◼   ► No, I mean, the trick is to ask for something small and logical.

00:16:28 ◼   ► And sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't.

00:16:30 ◼   ► I still have a bunch of feedbacks that are still open to a bunch of other things.

00:16:34 ◼   ► But the reminders team seems very sensitive to good feedback.

00:16:37 ◼   ► Can you write an article about the ability to have your device in dark mode but not have dark icons?

00:16:46 ◼   ► Could you write that article, please?

00:16:47 ◼   ► Dude, I have so many.

00:16:50 ◼   ► Springboard in iOS 18 is a wild, wild place to be right now.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm sure you're very familiar with it.

00:16:56 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:16:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I spent some time staring at the sun trying to understand.

00:17:01 ◼   ► Springboard for your work.

00:17:02 ◼   ► I have not figured out the rhyme or reason to it myself.

00:17:06 ◼   ► I don't understand it.

00:17:07 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense to me.

00:17:08 ◼   ► It's like, oh, you like dark mode and obviously you like everything dark.

00:17:12 ◼   ► You are Batman.

00:17:13 ◼   ► You must love everything in black.

00:17:15 ◼   ► They've made some surprising decisions there.

00:17:18 ◼   ► Reminders, though, I got that dialed in.

00:17:22 ◼   ► All right, just got to work on the smart list next because that's the last thing that I think I really need is to have the ability to create a smart list that includes some lists but not all of them.

00:17:33 ◼   ► Ooh, OK.

00:17:34 ◼   ► It's pretty, yeah, it's, I mean, if you go back.

00:17:37 ◼   ► Fire up MozEdit, Steven, it's time to go.

00:17:39 ◼   ► Let's go.

00:17:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:43 ◼   ► If you go back and look at some of Federico's old reviews, you'll see that he's mentioned it at least two or three times.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Yeah, but see, that's buried in 180,000 words about iOS.

00:17:52 ◼   ► And the trick is to write a blog post with a good headline and include that in the feedback and include the feedback number in the blog post and then hope for the best.

00:18:03 ◼   ► Do you have a webinar I can sign Federico up for maybe?

00:18:05 ◼   ► Well, it's a course.

00:18:07 ◼   ► A good headline webinar.

00:18:09 ◼   ► A little SEO webinar that I can send Federico to.

00:18:13 ◼   ► We'll pay for it with the, you know, out of the back story's budget.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Yeah, John, sometimes when I'm writing, the headline comes first.

00:18:22 ◼   ► What about you?

00:18:23 ◼   ► Are you a headline first person or?

00:18:25 ◼   ► No, I am a person who writes title at the top and then just writes the article and does it at the end.

00:18:31 ◼   ► OK.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Almost always.

00:18:33 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:18:34 ◼   ► You guys know about the way YouTubers work, right?

00:18:37 ◼   ► They think about the thumbnail and then work backwards.

00:18:39 ◼   ► Yeah, the thumbnail sometimes comes before the idea for the video.

00:18:44 ◼   ► Like the idea is to title the thumbnail and then they make a video.

00:18:49 ◼   ► I've wondered why I am the way that I am in this regard.

00:18:53 ◼   ► That's a bigger topic for another day overall.

00:18:56 ◼   ► I've accidentally...

00:18:57 ◼   ► I've paid a lot of money to work that problem out.

00:19:00 ◼   ► Let's get comfortable.

00:19:02 ◼   ► This is going to take all afternoon.

00:19:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:19:05 ◼   ► I've accidentally...

00:19:06 ◼   ► Stephen, just lay back.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Lay back on this couch.

00:19:08 ◼   ► I've accidentally created reconcilable differences and therapy all at once.

00:19:12 ◼   ► But I think it's because in high school college, the student newspaper thing and in college,

00:19:18 ◼   ► one of my many tasks over the years was actually to write headlines because our reporters,

00:19:25 ◼   ► they'd often mock something in.

00:19:27 ◼   ► But I was in charge of layout and design of the paper.

00:19:29 ◼   ► And so I very often would take their headline and rewrite it or tweak it to make it fit

00:19:34 ◼   ► or kind of flow better with what we were doing overall.

00:19:37 ◼   ► And I think that is what...

00:19:40 ◼   ► I still think that way.

00:19:42 ◼   ► That reminders post, I had it in my back of my mind because I'd written about it before.

00:19:47 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, I need to revisit this."

00:19:49 ◼   ► And the headline is what came first about the, "I'm just a simple user asking a bazillion

00:19:53 ◼   ► dollar company."

00:19:54 ◼   ► Kind of like the boom box outside the window kind of feeling.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Have you seen the movie?

00:20:01 ◼   ► Do you know what movie that is?

00:20:03 ◼   ► No.

00:20:04 ◼   ► I mean...

00:20:05 ◼   ► It's Notting Hill.

00:20:06 ◼   ► It's Notting Hill.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I have never seen it.

00:20:08 ◼   ► That's a great movie.

00:20:09 ◼   ► You should watch it.

00:20:10 ◼   ► You've been in London now so you'll like it.

00:20:11 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a good one.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Yeah, it's...

00:20:13 ◼   ► Oh, what is the name of the actress in that movie?

00:20:17 ◼   ► I forget.

00:20:18 ◼   ► Let me look up in call sheet.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Notting Hill.

00:20:21 ◼   ► Julia Roberts.

00:20:22 ◼   ► I could picture her, but I couldn't think of a name.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Julia Roberts standing in front of Hugh Grant.

00:20:26 ◼   ► Spoilers for Notting Hill from 1999.

00:20:30 ◼   ► And it's like, I'm just a girl standing in front of a boy telling her to love him.

00:20:35 ◼   ► Him to love her or something.

00:20:36 ◼   ► I've ruined that line.

00:20:37 ◼   ► Steven, go watch the movie and then report on the line.

00:20:40 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by ZocDoc.

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00:22:27 ◼   ► Surprise!

00:22:28 ◼   ► 18.1 beta is out.

00:22:30 ◼   ► This is fun.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Yo dog, I heard you like betas.

00:22:36 ◼   ► I could put betas on top of your betas.

00:22:39 ◼   ► That's right.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Steven, what are these betas?

00:22:42 ◼   ► So it's 18.1, Sequoia 15.1, WatchOS 11.1, the WatchOS doesn't really have Apple intelligence

00:22:48 ◼   ► stuff per se.

00:22:50 ◼   ► But this is the beta that brings along Apple intelligence.

00:22:54 ◼   ► Now this is region locked as expected, not available in China or the EU.

00:23:00 ◼   ► Apple said as much earlier this summer.

00:23:03 ◼   ► Weirdly there's a wait list in the developer beta.

00:23:06 ◼   ► Now I did this the day after it came out because I was flying home when this was unfolding,

00:23:11 ◼   ► but I was in in just a few minutes.

00:23:14 ◼   ► So some people in our discord for members saying it was taking a little bit longer now,

00:23:17 ◼   ► but basically you say, Hey, I want in and then you get notification that you're in.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Jason was told that, Jason was briefed that for the developer beta, the approvals would

00:23:30 ◼   ► be basically instant.

00:23:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:32 ◼   ► And it seems so my read on that is they're just testing the approval system.

00:23:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

00:23:37 ◼   ► But it took me about 10 minutes to get in I think.

00:23:41 ◼   ► Mine was a little bit longer as well.

00:23:43 ◼   ► Mine was like an hour or something.

00:23:45 ◼   ► But you know, I think maybe they were just like stretching it like, you know, short,

00:23:50 ◼   ► long, short, long kind of thing, you know.

00:23:52 ◼   ► But they're, I got the impression that for this beta they're not like wait listing,

00:24:00 ◼   ► wait listing.

00:24:01 ◼   ► And I guess we'll see what happens if this will even still be a thing or what like later

00:24:06 ◼   ► on.

00:24:07 ◼   ► But the waitlist part of it is so weird to me.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Do you remember the mailbox waitlist?

00:24:11 ◼   ► Like mailbox did so many things first and I think this was the first one and you'd

00:24:17 ◼   ► get your number and you could like boost your number by sharing and like, it was absolute

00:24:23 ◼   ► genius marketing.

00:24:24 ◼   ► Man, I miss mailbox so much.

00:24:26 ◼   ► Then it got sunsetted real hard.

00:24:28 ◼   ► I'll never forget Dropbox for that.

00:24:32 ◼   ► Anything else on mailbox you want to talk about?

00:24:34 ◼   ► No, I think I've done my mailbox corner for this week.

00:24:37 ◼   ► This is in conjunction with a bunch of in person Apple intelligence events.

00:24:46 ◼   ► The Cupertino, I think there's also, there are also some in Europe to bring developers

00:24:51 ◼   ► in.

00:24:52 ◼   ► Well, it's not Europe technically, I guess the UK to bring in developers to recap with

00:24:56 ◼   ► them what they're doing.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Because there are some developer opportunities here to integrate with this stuff.

00:25:04 ◼   ► But it is a first beta.

00:25:06 ◼   ► And so there are a bunch of things that are present.

00:25:09 ◼   ► There's some other things that are not.

00:25:12 ◼   ► Some people are finding ways to work around the region locks.

00:25:18 ◼   ► You can see what the privacy stuff is doing.

00:25:22 ◼   ► So there's actually like this report you can run showing you what's on device and what's

00:25:26 ◼   ► been sent to the, what are they calling it?

00:25:28 ◼   ► The private compute cloud or private cloud computer.

00:25:32 ◼   ► That's right.

00:25:33 ◼   ► Private the PCC or whatever.

00:25:35 ◼   ► That's what the kids call it.

00:25:37 ◼   ► I think private cloud compute PCC.

00:25:39 ◼   ► When people say PCC, I always think of PRC and that's different.

00:25:44 ◼   ► That's maybe not too different.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:25:47 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:25:48 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:25:49 ◼   ► We don't know.

00:25:50 ◼   ► Maybe not.

00:25:51 ◼   ► Maybe it could be very similar or very different.

00:25:56 ◼   ► So yeah, that's, should we talk about what is present in this release?

00:26:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:04 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:05 ◼   ► So the summarization and writing tools are all here.

00:26:08 ◼   ► So if you're on a webpage and you go into reader mode, you can have it summarize it

00:26:14 ◼   ► for you.

00:26:15 ◼   ► It pulls table of contents based on headers in an article, which is pretty nice.

00:26:19 ◼   ► You can kind of click around pretty quickly.

00:26:22 ◼   ► The writing tools are here.

00:26:23 ◼   ► So that's the grammar checking, the tone shifting.

00:26:27 ◼   ► So Hey, I wrote this email to my boss.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Please make it sound friendly.

00:26:31 ◼   ► Please make it sound more professional.

00:26:34 ◼   ► And on the Mac, at least those are all in line with kind of the other grammar and spell

00:26:38 ◼   ► checking tools behind it.

00:26:39 ◼   ► Right click, which I think makes a lot of sense on the Mac.

00:26:43 ◼   ► On iOS, it's like behind a button and you can kind of get to it, but the interface,

00:26:47 ◼   ► what's your feeling in the keyboard in the keyboard.

00:26:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:51 ◼   ► So if you select text, the little icon pops up in the quick type bar.

00:26:54 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Tap that.

00:26:56 ◼   ► But yeah, cause at first I was like, is it weird?

00:26:58 ◼   ► Like you just put it in the cut, copy and paste thing, which has also made the cut,

00:27:02 ◼   ► copy and paste thing hilariously larger.

00:27:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:05 ◼   ► I pad it's massive.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it's massive.

00:27:08 ◼   ► But it's also like, cause also in quick type, like when you're, you know, you get

00:27:13 ◼   ► like shiny, like colorful shiny text, which is recommendations from Apple intelligence,

00:27:19 ◼   ► but it also has the little, I don't even know what to call that.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Did you in America, did you have something called the spiral graph?

00:27:26 ◼   ► Yes.

00:27:27 ◼   ► Yes.

00:27:28 ◼   ► So the Apple intelligence logo looks like it was made on a spiral graph.

00:27:32 ◼   ► Yeah, it does.

00:27:33 ◼   ► It really does.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Or yeah, it does.

00:27:35 ◼   ► It looks like a seal, a tg seal approval too.

00:27:37 ◼   ► I think it does look like that.

00:27:39 ◼   ► He does approve of all AI tools.

00:27:41 ◼   ► So he does.

00:27:42 ◼   ► He does.

00:27:43 ◼   ► He's well known for that actually.

00:27:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:46 ◼   ► He's well known for that.

00:27:47 ◼   ► And so yeah, it pops up as it shows the little spiral graph in the quick type thing.

00:27:52 ◼   ► You can tap that and change the text off with it that way too.

00:27:56 ◼   ► In mail, you have the priority messages and summaries.

00:28:02 ◼   ► For me, that's hilariously broken.

00:28:03 ◼   ► I keep wanting to pull this email from my archive back into my inbox is like, this is

00:28:08 ◼   ► important.

00:28:09 ◼   ► It's not, it's not even in my inbox, Apple like, I don't know what's going on there.

00:28:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:28:13 ◼   ► I saw something like that too.

00:28:14 ◼   ► I have one today where it did the same thing and it got out my iPad and it had one email

00:28:20 ◼   ► and the, but then it made a box that was the entire width of the screen that was empty.

00:28:24 ◼   ► So the whole width of my inbox was the priority thing and I have one email in it and you can't,

00:28:33 ◼   ► I don't, what I don't like is we're going to talk more about impressions in a minute,

00:28:37 ◼   ► but like while we're on that, like you can't do anything with that.

00:28:40 ◼   ► You can do is open the email.

00:28:42 ◼   ► You can't like swipe it away.

00:28:44 ◼   ► It's just open the email on nothing.

00:28:46 ◼   ► It's like, all right, thanks.

00:28:48 ◼   ► Yeah, it's early.

00:28:50 ◼   ► It's beta one.

00:28:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:28:52 ◼   ► I know.

00:28:53 ◼   ► I know.

00:28:54 ◼   ► Phone calls can be recorded, transcribed and summarized.

00:28:57 ◼   ► I attempted this today and when I hit the button, nothing happened, but as I've seen

00:29:02 ◼   ► online, people have gotten it working.

00:29:04 ◼   ► So that's in there.

00:29:07 ◼   ► You can type to Siri so you can double tap the bottom of the display and it brings up

00:29:12 ◼   ► the type of Siri interface with just the keyboard, kind of a text box above the keyboard is all

00:29:17 ◼   ► rainbowy showing that it's AI.

00:29:20 ◼   ► Very exciting.

00:29:22 ◼   ► If you have not had that, had that working on your devices and you're running these betas,

00:29:25 ◼   ► a restart should bring it, bring it back.

00:29:28 ◼   ► It did not work for me until I rebooted my phone.

00:29:31 ◼   ► Same.

00:29:32 ◼   ► And then on the Mac, it's like command key twice or globe S because on the Mac, Apple

00:29:37 ◼   ► doesn't understand how keyboard shortcuts work.

00:29:39 ◼   ► And so some people use, some teams use command, other teams use the globe key.

00:29:43 ◼   ► It's very confusing over there.

00:29:46 ◼   ► And then, uh, some more summarization stuff and notes and messages, some better natural

00:29:52 ◼   ► language search and photos.

00:29:54 ◼   ► And then what I think maybe the most interesting, and we'll talk about it in our impressions

00:29:59 ◼   ► is the reduce interruptions focus mode is now, uh, now available to you.

00:30:05 ◼   ► What is, what's globus?

00:30:07 ◼   ► Is that like Siri?

00:30:09 ◼   ► Like w is that what that is?

00:30:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Okay.

00:30:13 ◼   ► I was like sitting here for ages.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Like what could the S mean?

00:30:15 ◼   ► I think it's intelligence.

00:30:18 ◼   ► I got intelligence.

00:30:21 ◼   ► So what's missing as of beta one, there's no image or emoji generation.

00:30:27 ◼   ► So no image playgrounds, no, you know, make an emoji of a dinosaur riding a space shuttle

00:30:32 ◼   ► into the sun.

00:30:34 ◼   ► There's no chat.

00:30:35 ◼   ► Be chat.

00:30:36 ◼   ► GBT fallback is not here.

00:30:38 ◼   ► The AI photo editing is not here.

00:30:41 ◼   ► So the, you know, Oh, we move this in the background.

00:30:43 ◼   ► You know, those were the tools that are basically kind of everywhere now for AI for nothing.

00:30:48 ◼   ► Those aren't there.

00:30:49 ◼   ► Uh, priority notifications and male categorization aren't here.

00:30:54 ◼   ► And then, uh, the entire world of like personal context, screen awareness type stuff also

00:31:02 ◼   ► lacking in beta one.

00:31:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:05 ◼   ► Right.

00:31:06 ◼   ► I had some, some questions for the two of you.

00:31:08 ◼   ► Okay.

00:31:09 ◼   ► I want to get your, your expert opinions on this.

00:31:12 ◼   ► So this, this first one is like two questions in one, which is, will this come to the new

00:31:19 ◼   ► so like, you know, we're assuming the iOS 18 is for new iPhones, right?

00:31:23 ◼   ► Just when it always roughly launches, it's like around new iPhone time.

00:31:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:28 ◼   ► Well, 18.1 ship on the new iPhones.

00:31:34 ◼   ► Will it come later and or could iOS 18 be released in like August?

00:31:41 ◼   ► So I think that the new phones will ship with iOS 18.

00:31:46 ◼   ► I think at the same time, 18 one will be in beta public beta.

00:31:51 ◼   ► You'll be able to through the setup process, maybe add that if you want, uh, when you set

00:31:58 ◼   ► up a new iPhone 16.

00:32:01 ◼   ► But I do think it's going to be later.

00:32:03 ◼   ► I really do feel like these, especially given the state that these tools are in right now,

00:32:08 ◼   ► I think it's going to be October easily before this, this stuff actually ships.

00:32:12 ◼   ► What do you think, Steven?

00:32:14 ◼   ► I think that's, I think that's about right.

00:32:16 ◼   ► I do not see them moving.

00:32:18 ◼   ► I always say 18 forward.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Uh, the normal timeframe.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:23 ◼   ► I think it'll come later.

00:32:25 ◼   ► And I think even 18.1 won't include everything they've talked about.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Probably.

00:32:31 ◼   ► I think some of it may be 18.2.

00:32:33 ◼   ► Vic Turner's discourse says if history is repeated itself, they'll release iOS 18 for

00:32:37 ◼   ► a few days and then 18.1 will be on the new phones at launch.

00:32:40 ◼   ► That's been happening right in the last couple of years.

00:32:43 ◼   ► It's been, it's been bug fixes though.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Not features.

00:32:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:32:47 ◼   ► And then issues with the point O. Um, if this, okay.

00:32:53 ◼   ► Do you think there is a possibility that they may roll any of these features into 18?

00:33:00 ◼   ► I don't think so.

00:33:01 ◼   ► Okay.

00:33:02 ◼   ► I think they want to keep these things separate.

00:33:03 ◼   ► I, I really feel like this stuff is in alpha shape right now.

00:33:06 ◼   ► It's not even really developer beta shape.

00:33:08 ◼   ► I mean, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't work right or is weird or is just kind of

00:33:13 ◼   ► not particularly useful at this point.

00:33:15 ◼   ► And I don't think they want to go out with new, with a new operating system on new phones

00:33:21 ◼   ► with something that's kind of semi broken.

00:33:23 ◼   ► And I mean, yeah, it'll get a lot better over the next, you know, month and a half.

00:33:28 ◼   ► But we're really, I mean, at this point we're like what, six, seven, eight weeks away from,

00:33:33 ◼   ► you know, from 18 and from new iPhones.

00:33:35 ◼   ► I, you know, I really don't, I, yeah, I have a hard time seeing them putting it in 18,

00:33:40 ◼   ► anything of it really.

00:33:41 ◼   ► But I think too, they need to be mindful of first impressions with this.

00:33:46 ◼   ► They've made a really big deal of it.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Yes.

00:33:49 ◼   ► It's a big deal in the industry, whether it should be or not, you know, side table that

00:33:53 ◼   ► for now, uh, Apple's made a big deal of it and they're going to want people's first uses

00:33:58 ◼   ► of it to be as good as possible.

00:34:01 ◼   ► And I don't think that putting something early is like worth risking that because whenever

00:34:09 ◼   ► they release it, there will be issues, I'm sure, but they want to minimize that.

00:34:13 ◼   ► And so I could see them saying, look, uh, this is going to be an 18.1 and you know,

00:34:17 ◼   ► I think like John said, it'd probably be in public beta by then.

00:34:20 ◼   ► So people will be able to get their hands on it if they really want to, because there

00:34:24 ◼   ► will be people who buy a new phone for this reason, right?

00:34:28 ◼   ► Because this is not coming to older devices.

00:34:31 ◼   ► And that gives a little bit of an escape hatch for those people who are like nerdy enough

00:34:35 ◼   ► to know that and know how to get a public beta.

00:34:37 ◼   ► But for the rest of the world, it will just come out later.

00:34:41 ◼   ► I'm definitely coming around to what you said, John, about them maybe prompting people if

00:34:46 ◼   ► they want to install the public beta.

00:34:47 ◼   ► I could imagine maybe 18 on the new phones could have an Apple intelligence thing in

00:34:52 ◼   ► settings that you would tap it, but you have to sign up for the beta for this.

00:34:55 ◼   ► Do you want to, I mean, because that also tracks of what I think we'd all expected that

00:34:59 ◼   ► when these features launched to the public, they're being beta or anyway, and this would

00:35:05 ◼   ► just enforce that, like they're going to call this a beta even when it's available.

00:35:11 ◼   ► Like even when 18.1 is shipping, they will still be calling this stuff a beta because

00:35:16 ◼   ► why wouldn't you?

00:35:17 ◼   ► Like you have the opportunity to do that and nobody is going to be surprised about that.

00:35:21 ◼   ► So you may as well just do it.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Like they've done this stuff so many times, right?

00:35:25 ◼   ► Like a lot of the photo stuff that they've done in the past, they've had, they've called

00:35:29 ◼   ► it a beta when they put it out there, right?

00:35:33 ◼   ► As people that review, I don't know if you're doing any kind of reviewing this year, Steven,

00:35:36 ◼   ► but I know obviously, Jon, you are, and you have, I'm sure some visibility to Federico's

00:35:42 ◼   ► process.

00:35:43 ◼   ► Right.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Doesn't this complicate things for you massively now?

00:35:46 ◼   ► Because I'm sure that you're running point one, but your review is about point O and

00:35:51 ◼   ► now you're like running a different, potentially running a different version of the operating

00:35:55 ◼   ► system to the one you'll be reviewing.

00:35:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it does complicate things.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I don't know if it's massively though.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I haven't had a chance to talk to Federico about this because our vacations overlapped,

00:36:06 ◼   ► but he he's on 18.1, which I think the UI is separate enough that it's not going to cause

00:36:13 ◼   ► him like some very technical issues with things like grading screenshots.

00:36:18 ◼   ► That's like, I'm not on this, right?

00:36:20 ◼   ► Like for him, it's, it's still 18.

00:36:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:36:23 ◼   ► That's true.

00:36:24 ◼   ► I mean, so there, there are a bunch of layers of issues here.

00:36:26 ◼   ► One is he can't get this right now.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Maybe he can, you know, figure out a trick to get into it at some point, but he doesn't

00:36:32 ◼   ► have this available.

00:36:33 ◼   ► I suspect what we'll end up doing is he's going to publish his iOS and iPadOS 18 review

00:36:39 ◼   ► day and date with its launch.

00:36:41 ◼   ► And then we'll do something different for 18.1.

00:36:44 ◼   ► Maybe I'll write it.

00:36:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I haven't spoken to him about that.

00:36:47 ◼   ► I mean, we, we should cover it, but if he can't cover it, then someone needs to cover

00:36:51 ◼   ► it.

00:36:52 ◼   ► And so maybe that'll be me.

00:36:53 ◼   ► So I've kind of been digging into it pretty deeply.

00:36:55 ◼   ► I have not installed it on my Mac yet because of kind of the concerns you raised, Mike,

00:37:00 ◼   ► which are if I put this on my beta Mac, am I going to be polluting my environment in

00:37:06 ◼   ► a way that makes it more difficult for me to review 18?

00:37:10 ◼   ► And I got to be really careful about that.

00:37:12 ◼   ► I just don't have unlimited M1 Macs sitting around my house where I can have one, one

00:37:18 ◼   ► on each beta.

00:37:19 ◼   ► So I don't know what I'm going to do yet.

00:37:22 ◼   ► I've just been kind of playing wait and see because I was traveling the day this came

00:37:25 ◼   ► out.

00:37:26 ◼   ► I didn't put this on my devices until yesterday.

00:37:29 ◼   ► So I'm only like 24 hours into this anyway, but I'm kind of playing wait and see with

00:37:34 ◼   ► Mac OS to kind of, to, to read a few articles, understand just if nothing else, how it changes

00:37:41 ◼   ► the way the system works.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Because I don't want to get into a position where I have trouble reviewing 18 because

00:37:49 ◼   ► I've got 18 or 15 when I have 15 one on my Mac.

00:37:53 ◼   ► So that's kind of the things I'm thinking about right now.

00:37:56 ◼   ► It's a, it's complicated too in development land, right?

00:37:59 ◼   ► Cause I working on the iOS 18 releases of widget Smith and pedometer and everything.

00:38:04 ◼   ► And so I have like one, my, my carry phone now is 18.1 because also I'm talking about

00:38:12 ◼   ► all this stuff.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Like we're doing it right now.

00:38:15 ◼   ► My test development phone is going to stay on the 18.0 track because that's what customers

00:38:21 ◼   ► are going to have.

00:38:22 ◼   ► That's what we're building against.

00:38:23 ◼   ► Like it is extremely complicated all of a sudden because it's unclear if the only difference

00:38:31 ◼   ► between 0.0 and 0.1 is Apple intelligence or are there other things behind the scenes?

00:38:37 ◼   ► Like you said, John, like pollute, I like polluting your environment accidentally even

00:38:42 ◼   ► like not, you know, really having a full picture of what's what.

00:38:46 ◼   ► So it is, it is complicated this year if you're covering this stuff or working in this space

00:38:51 ◼   ► and even being a developer like Steven, what are you doing for testing of widget Smith?

00:38:57 ◼   ► So right now we're focused on 18.0 and so yeah, I've got a phone that's just running

00:39:02 ◼   ► that.

00:39:03 ◼   ► I think we do not know is if 18.0 like a new beta of 18.0 comes out, will the 18.1 beta

00:39:10 ◼   ► have the same stuff in it?

00:39:13 ◼   ► Are they running on different tracks?

00:39:14 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:39:15 ◼   ► Will there be some kind of conflict between them with some services or anything?

00:39:19 ◼   ► There could be all kinds of things that crop up.

00:39:21 ◼   ► I think where I am heading since I'm done with my big trip to Europe is I think I will

00:39:27 ◼   ► probably run 18.0 on my desktop and 18.1 on my laptop and just cross my fingers that audio

00:39:35 ◼   ► hijack continues to work on, I keep calling it 18, but 15.

00:39:41 ◼   ► But I'll use 15.0 on my desktop, 15.1 on my laptop and hope that audio hijack keeps working.

00:39:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I put 18.1 on the iPad that I have here at the studio because I was just really intrigued

00:39:57 ◼   ► about it.

00:39:59 ◼   ► And this is because when we were recording upgrade and all this news dropped, a couple

00:40:02 ◼   ► of people in the Discord are like, "You probably shouldn't put this on your phone if you're

00:40:06 ◼   ► getting a new phone.

00:40:07 ◼   ► It's going to potentially make that complicated because you're trying to do the setup process."

00:40:12 ◼   ► Yeah, it does.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Right?

00:40:14 ◼   ► No, it's not as bad as it could be.

00:40:16 ◼   ► No, but it's not terrible, but it's definitely not simple.

00:40:21 ◼   ► It's definitely going to add complications.

00:40:25 ◼   ► And so yeah, I actually do think that I'm leaning towards no beta on my iPhone this

00:40:32 ◼   ► year because what I will probably want to use is 18.1 and I may just wait for my new

00:40:39 ◼   ► phone and then put 18.1 on my new phone.

00:40:41 ◼   ► It's probably the way that I'm going because 18 is not interesting to me, but 18.1, we'll

00:40:48 ◼   ► talk about it in a minute, is more interesting to me than 18 is.

00:40:51 ◼   ► And I don't think I want to put it on my phone yet, but maybe I'll see how the next couple

00:40:55 ◼   ► of hours go and then just deal with this problem.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Yeah, for people who aren't familiar, the process now, if you're running a beta and

00:41:06 ◼   ► you migrate to a new phone, the new phone will say, "Hey, you're on a beta.

00:41:11 ◼   ► Do you want to download that beta here?"

00:41:12 ◼   ► And so it used to be you have to set the phone up, kind of fake it, like set the phone up

00:41:17 ◼   ► with no data transfer, install the beta, erase all content and settings on the phone, and

00:41:23 ◼   ► then migrate to it.

00:41:24 ◼   ► It used to be a true nightmare.

00:41:25 ◼   ► It is better now, but it is an extra hoop to jump through still.

00:41:30 ◼   ► I do wonder though, just the weirdness of having two beta tracks.

00:41:35 ◼   ► I don't know whether that's going to work, but you know what I mean?

00:41:39 ◼   ► It's just-

00:41:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:41:41 ◼   ► Oh, there's room for disaster for sure.

00:41:43 ◼   ► It may be, I think there is a possibility where they don't...

00:41:48 ◼   ► I still don't think they're going to release iOS 18 early, but it may be that we get the

00:41:52 ◼   ► iOS 18 release candidate here pretty soon.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And basically 18.0 is kind of done and put on the shelf, if you will.

00:42:01 ◼   ► It'll be on new phones.

00:42:03 ◼   ► It'll come out when it comes out in mid-September, but then moving forward, Apple's development

00:42:09 ◼   ► is on the 0.1.

00:42:11 ◼   ► That could be a way to help alleviate some of these issues.

00:42:15 ◼   ► We just don't know because this is uncharted territory for everybody.

00:42:20 ◼   ► It's so weird to be doing this.

00:42:24 ◼   ► This is unprecedented, right?

00:42:25 ◼   ► I don't think this has ever happened before.

00:42:27 ◼   ► I don't think there have been two betas this early.

00:42:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:34 ◼   ► They run betas concurrently, right?

00:42:36 ◼   ► Like 17.6 and 18.0.

00:42:39 ◼   ► But like two versions of the same unshipping operating system.

00:42:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think that's ever happened.

00:42:46 ◼   ► No.

00:42:47 ◼   ► Especially as she says to him at this point, like when we're like midway through the cycle.

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00:44:20 ◼   ► So I want to guide us through some discussion of the things that are there, at least from

00:44:26 ◼   ► my perspective, the things that I've been able to use.

00:44:28 ◼   ► I've not been able to use everything yet.

00:44:31 ◼   ► Some stuff for me is not working, like the creating of photos, movies, it's just not

00:44:36 ◼   ► working.

00:44:37 ◼   ► It's just telling me it's analyzing my photo library.

00:44:39 ◼   ► Same here.

00:44:40 ◼   ► I don't know what it's doing.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I've seen video on threads of it working.

00:44:45 ◼   ► So some people weren't able to do it.

00:44:47 ◼   ► The first part for me is Siri.

00:44:52 ◼   ► I think they've messed up here by not making it, I feel like any noticeably better.

00:45:03 ◼   ► I know one of the things that it does.

00:45:06 ◼   ► It's arguably worse, I'd say.

00:45:08 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:45:09 ◼   ► All right.

00:45:10 ◼   ► I like that take.

00:45:11 ◼   ► One of the things that it does do now is apparently, you can ask multiple questions about the same

00:45:17 ◼   ► thing and it will hold some context.

00:45:19 ◼   ► And I've seen some examples of that working.

00:45:21 ◼   ► I've had some examples of that myself.

00:45:24 ◼   ► But there are certain things where it's like, they've created the new UI, right?

00:45:28 ◼   ► Like the new UI and the typing to Siri.

00:45:31 ◼   ► And apparently, later on, as we spoke about earlier, there are going to be these personal

00:45:34 ◼   ► context things and it will get smarter.

00:45:37 ◼   ► But I want to guide you through a conversation that I had with my assistant.

00:45:42 ◼   ► I asked, where is Steven?

00:45:43 ◼   ► And it showed Steven on Find My.

00:45:45 ◼   ► I said, how's the weather there?

00:45:47 ◼   ► And it showed me the weather for London.

00:45:50 ◼   ► And I said, no, Memphis.

00:45:51 ◼   ► And it did a Google search for Memphis.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Now, that wasn't a great experience.

00:45:56 ◼   ► And I think launching Apple intelligence with the new look for Siri, but without any of

00:46:03 ◼   ► the major behind the scenes changes is a really bad idea.

00:46:08 ◼   ► Because I think people are going to think that it's going to be better and then immediately

00:46:15 ◼   ► like say, oh, it still sucks.

00:46:18 ◼   ► And I think that that is not great.

00:46:20 ◼   ► I don't think they had to do the Siri UI changes yet if they don't have the smarts behind it.

00:46:29 ◼   ► I think they should have waited to do that if it doesn't seem, at least to me, to be

00:46:35 ◼   ► any better.

00:46:36 ◼   ► Like I even did the thing where it's like, what is 7 a.m. Pacific time, 7 a.m. U.S. Pacific

00:46:42 ◼   ► time in London?

00:46:44 ◼   ► And it still can't do that, but it just still can't understand that.

00:46:48 ◼   ► And so what I like, though, is have a little feedback button.

00:46:50 ◼   ► And I tapped it and I fill out a thing and said, Siri should be able to do this.

00:46:54 ◼   ► And I submitted it.

00:46:55 ◼   ► And it came right to my email.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Thank you for that.

00:46:58 ◼   ► Oh, good.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Good.

00:47:00 ◼   ► You're going to send it to a reminders team?

00:47:01 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:02 ◼   ► I think that they're going to this isn't going to be great for them to have not improved,

00:47:06 ◼   ► not to not have the major Siri improvements ready, but to have changed all the UI and

00:47:12 ◼   ► to be calling it Apple intelligence, because this is just the easy dunk of not that intelligent.

00:47:17 ◼   ► And I don't really know why they'd open themselves up to that.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Yeah, it is a very easy dunk.

00:47:21 ◼   ► I think the you're right.

00:47:23 ◼   ► I've had a very similar experience to you, Mike.

00:47:25 ◼   ► I did the similar kind of thing with asking a series of questions, getting wrong answers

00:47:30 ◼   ► and then saying, no, I mean this and getting the right answers.

00:47:34 ◼   ► So it it does have some of that contextual awareness.

00:47:37 ◼   ► An awful lot of queries, though, are still responded with are still answered with with

00:47:44 ◼   ► links to Google searches.

00:47:47 ◼   ► I I tried the thing like where you say, how do I turn on dark mode?

00:47:53 ◼   ► And that works.

00:47:54 ◼   ► It does the it showed me the four steps from the iPhone user guide that you do for that.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:48:01 ◼   ► If you tap on it, it opens up in on the web, which is I asked it how to turn on Wi Fi and

00:48:05 ◼   ► it told me it couldn't.

00:48:07 ◼   ► Well, I was going to say that I asked it how to zap my PRAM in it.

00:48:15 ◼   ► And it got you know what I just realized, like I was thinking to myself then I should

00:48:19 ◼   ► talk to John like, oh, maybe maybe this like I think it series not answering things as

00:48:26 ◼   ► good as a chat.

00:48:27 ◼   ► But then I remembered, oh, maybe when the church, you'd be tthing is that this might

00:48:32 ◼   ► actually get better.

00:48:34 ◼   ► And so like, maybe it maybe I am being too quick to judge.

00:48:38 ◼   ► And maybe when they enable that it might start to feel smarter because Apple will be pushing

00:48:43 ◼   ► a bunch of LLM stuff out to that.

00:48:45 ◼   ► It'll be a bad luck, though, because they'll be leaning really heavy on chat GPT.

00:48:49 ◼   ► I think point is done.

00:48:50 ◼   ► You know what I was saying?

00:48:52 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, they're going to lean into it.

00:48:54 ◼   ► But you're gonna have to hit a prompt saying yes, send us a chat GPT.

00:48:57 ◼   ► Like it's not that Siri is going to be better on.

00:49:00 ◼   ► I'm still hoping that if you have an account, that won't happen.

00:49:03 ◼   ► I guess we'll see.

00:49:06 ◼   ► I agree with you that overall, like the new UI plus the whole series a weird combination.

00:49:12 ◼   ► And I think I'm hoping that that's just like, because we're in this beta, like this, you

00:49:17 ◼   ► know, kind of already and not yet timeframe that we're living in at this moment.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Good point.

00:49:22 ◼   ► But I think you're right.

00:49:24 ◼   ► The new UI, which is beautiful, like whoever worked on all that, like just

00:49:28 ◼   ► All of the animation.

00:49:29 ◼   ► So good.

00:49:30 ◼   ► And they've really done a good job of like,

00:49:34 ◼   ► They've killed it.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Giving a look to AI.

00:49:36 ◼   ► Mm hmm.

00:49:37 ◼   ► I really like it.

00:49:38 ◼   ► And I think all that is obviously by design, because Apple's projecting, hey, this is different.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Like this thing is new and exciting.

00:49:46 ◼   ► And it so far, the UI has written a check that the intelligence can't cache, but I think

00:49:52 ◼   ► that will hopefully, hopefully change.

00:49:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:49:55 ◼   ► There are a couple other things.

00:49:56 ◼   ► I mean, I would mention too, that like, for instance, when I asked that question about

00:50:01 ◼   ► turning on dark mode, when I said then show me how it on the iPhone took me straight to

00:50:10 ◼   ► settings, it didn't actually show me how it just, it took me to, to settings.

00:50:15 ◼   ► And then on the iPad, it actually showed me a toggle and the toggle, if I tapped on it,

00:50:23 ◼   ► didn't do anything.

00:50:24 ◼   ► It's the advantage of a toggle that took me to settings.

00:50:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:50:31 ◼   ► So that was a little weird.

00:50:32 ◼   ► I may have actually gotten that backwards between the iPhone and the iPad, but you know

00:50:37 ◼   ► what I mean?

00:50:38 ◼   ► It's there's inconsistent UI and weird UI.

00:50:40 ◼   ► This is what a toggle looks like.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Show me a toggle.

00:50:43 ◼   ► It's like, well, okay, I get it that there's a toggle I have to do somewhere.

00:50:48 ◼   ► But I thought that this, because it looks a lot like what you would get if you did a

00:50:51 ◼   ► Siri search, right?

00:50:52 ◼   ► And you saw something from, from, you know, the app intense or whatever, but that was,

00:50:57 ◼   ► that was really funny.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I thought that was kind of crazy.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Placeholder dot PNG.

00:51:06 ◼   ► There is something cool though, I think behind that, like if Apple can make that work where

00:51:10 ◼   ► you just ask your device, like, how do I do this or do it for me?

00:51:14 ◼   ► I mean, that was the Bixby promise.

00:51:16 ◼   ► Remember that on Samsung phones?

00:51:17 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:18 ◼   ► Right.

00:51:19 ◼   ► And no one's really delivered on it.

00:51:21 ◼   ► And the thing that's, that's wild to me about that is that that's a known problem set, right?

00:51:26 ◼   ► Like Apple knows all the features of iOS, like just make sure your, your robot knows

00:51:31 ◼   ► about them all.

00:51:32 ◼   ► And so I think, I think if anything, that will get straightened out because it seems

00:51:36 ◼   ► like such a low hanging fruit.

00:51:39 ◼   ► Just use the URL schemes.

00:51:40 ◼   ► I mean, the, the, the other thing I tried was remind me to call Federico in things and

00:51:48 ◼   ► that, that kind of system with Siri has never worked super well where you're invoking other

00:51:53 ◼   ► apps, but it doesn't work at all when you're typing to Siri.

00:51:56 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:51:57 ◼   ► And to Taoist.

00:51:58 ◼   ► Remember that you had to pronounce to Taoist.

00:52:03 ◼   ► Right.

00:52:04 ◼   ► Mike, tell me about the writing tools.

00:52:06 ◼   ► I think out of the three of us, these are kind of most aimed at you.

00:52:09 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:52:11 ◼   ► A real dullard.

00:52:13 ◼   ► Hi, welcome to the dance corner.

00:52:16 ◼   ► It's me, Mike Hurley.

00:52:17 ◼   ► John and I write professionally.

00:52:21 ◼   ► You don't.

00:52:22 ◼   ► Aimed at people like you.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Like I feel like you pointing through the screen, but you are right though.

00:52:27 ◼   ► They are aimed at me because I don't want to put the effort in that you do too.

00:52:31 ◼   ► You too do.

00:52:32 ◼   ► See, that's the thing.

00:52:33 ◼   ► I can't even speak.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Make this more professional.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Please rewrite like a podcaster.

00:52:38 ◼   ► I think they work really well in the controls of the best that I've seen because, so when

00:52:44 ◼   ► you highlight the text, you highlight the text that you want to change and you press

00:52:47 ◼   ► the little button, you get given like a pop up, which is, you know, you can basically

00:52:52 ◼   ► rewrite this or, uh, I don't have it in part of me, but, and then you have things like,

00:52:58 ◼   ► they have a couple of different styles, like professional and friendly.

00:53:01 ◼   ► They have a couple of buttons too, which I like.

00:53:03 ◼   ► Make this a list, which I just think, yes, oh, I love that because I love a good list.

00:53:08 ◼   ► And I think they, they work really well and I will be using them.

00:53:12 ◼   ► Like I've been using chat GPT to do this kind of stuff.

00:53:16 ◼   ► So for example, I will write a episode description for a show and I was just like, okay, take

00:53:21 ◼   ► this and clean it up, you know, like fix the grammar or maybe I want a different way to

00:53:26 ◼   ► say it, you know?

00:53:27 ◼   ► And I liked that it has both of those.

00:53:29 ◼   ► You can basically have proofread it, I think is the word that they use to, you know, fix

00:53:33 ◼   ► things, but then you can also change the tone if you want to.

00:53:37 ◼   ► When you do that, it takes over the quick type bar again and you have, you can actually

00:53:41 ◼   ► rate the response, which I don't know how long that will last for.

00:53:45 ◼   ► Like if it will be into the release and probably, but you can have a button to like do it again,

00:53:51 ◼   ► you know, like redo it again or revert back to how it was.

00:53:55 ◼   ► And I did some comparisons.

00:53:57 ◼   ► So like I took a look at some stuff that I'd asked chat GPT to do and I liked apples, not

00:54:05 ◼   ► necessarily better, but I liked it.

00:54:06 ◼   ► Like, you know, I was like, oh, I would use that for episode description instead of what

00:54:10 ◼   ► I would use to check GPT for.

00:54:12 ◼   ► So, and I'm happier to use that in apples free built in tools than to, I mean, I could

00:54:18 ◼   ► use free check GPT too, if I wanted to, but that I don't have to use another service for

00:54:22 ◼   ► this and what eventually I won't even need to copy and paste it into another app.

00:54:27 ◼   ► Like it would just be on my Mac.

00:54:29 ◼   ► I'll just select the text and just do it right there.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I think that these tools are as good as I would want from something like this with the

00:54:38 ◼   ► best UI that I've seen.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I don't need to say rewrite this in my style, you know, forget all previous instructions.

00:54:45 ◼   ► I don't have to do any of that.

00:54:47 ◼   ► There is no prompting because it is done.

00:54:50 ◼   ► And I think that's very smart from Apple's perspective too, because they are limiting

00:54:54 ◼   ► the problem set for this with just all you can do is hit these buttons and we've trained

00:55:00 ◼   ► our LLM to understand what these buttons mean.

00:55:04 ◼   ► And it also does a good job of like, if you do the proofreading, it like pops the words

00:55:08 ◼   ► or the punctuation in that it's changing so you can very clearly see what it's done.

00:55:15 ◼   ► And you know, the animations are good, but also a little bit janky, but I know that will

00:55:20 ◼   ► be fixed.

00:55:21 ◼   ► Like the text at the moment kind of like flies out of the screen a little bit, which I don't

00:55:26 ◼   ► think it's supposed to do.

00:55:27 ◼   ► It's going to the cloud, mate.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Again, I'm doing all this on my iPad.

00:55:30 ◼   ► This is not what you wanted?

00:55:31 ◼   ► Just get rid of that.

00:55:32 ◼   ► That's terrible.

00:55:33 ◼   ► But yeah, I really like these tools and I will be using them for sure.

00:55:38 ◼   ► I think that there is a much better way of doing this kind of thing than other tools

00:55:43 ◼   ► that I've used.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And the output is good enough.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Yeah, it is nice having those tools wherever you are.

00:55:50 ◼   ► Like I use Grammarly's Safari plugin because I write a lot in our CMS and Grammarly is

00:55:57 ◼   ► just there like monitoring and making sure that I'm not doing anything silly with my

00:56:02 ◼   ► typing there.

00:56:03 ◼   ► And I think for a lot of people, once it's built in and it's just there, it will be their

00:56:08 ◼   ► first experience with tools like this.

00:56:10 ◼   ► And that is going to put companies like Grammarly and other players, I think, on notice a little

00:56:18 ◼   ► bit now that something's baked in first party.

00:56:22 ◼   ► But I think a lot of people will be using these things in the fall who don't even know

00:56:27 ◼   ► they exist right now.

00:56:28 ◼   ► Right?

00:56:29 ◼   ► Never heard of a Grammarly or things like it.

00:56:31 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:56:32 ◼   ► I think they're a little, the tools are a little hidden.

00:56:35 ◼   ► I think it's weird that it's in a pop up.

00:56:36 ◼   ► I mean, I guess there are the buttons, as you said, Mike, there's more than one way

00:56:40 ◼   ► to kind of get to these, but I think it is a little bit semi hidden at this point, which

00:56:44 ◼   ► I think is a little odd.

00:56:45 ◼   ► I'm not sure why that is.

00:56:47 ◼   ► I think it's just an iOS UI problem.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Like this is just like, they're just layering things on top of everything because, you know,

00:56:56 ◼   ► what are they going to do?

00:56:57 ◼   ► I could imagine a world in which it's more built into the selection, like the text selection,

00:57:05 ◼   ► like maybe there's a little pop under rather than a pop over, which has this stuff.

00:57:09 ◼   ► But yeah, if you don't have a keyboard, what are you going to do?

00:57:13 ◼   ► Right?

00:57:14 ◼   ► Yeah, the action menu is doing too much.

00:57:16 ◼   ► I mean, it seems like the kind of thing that needs to be tied to one of those menu buttons

00:57:21 ◼   ► or something where they can kind of do it in an outline form and have a bunch of different

00:57:25 ◼   ► options.

00:57:26 ◼   ► I'm kind of ambivalent about a lot of these tools.

00:57:28 ◼   ► I think the proofreading one is the best of the bunch and that it seems to be pretty accurate

00:57:33 ◼   ► and it allows you to kind of step through the changes and understand why it's suggesting

00:57:37 ◼   ► the changes, which I think is good.

00:57:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:57:40 ◼   ► That, you know, that's very much just like Grammarly and other tools that are out there

00:57:42 ◼   ► that do something similar.

00:57:44 ◼   ► But as you said, it's built in, Steven, and it's, that's, that's great because I mean,

00:57:49 ◼   ► Grammarly is an expensive subscription.

00:57:50 ◼   ► It's like $120, $130 a year.

00:57:53 ◼   ► So I'm sure there'll be a lot of people who, who moved to something like this, myself included.

00:57:59 ◼   ► I don't know about the rewriting tools.

00:58:01 ◼   ► I found them to be okay at best.

00:58:06 ◼   ► They don't handle markdown particularly well.

00:58:09 ◼   ► They do okay, but not, they, I've found the mangling URLs.

00:58:13 ◼   ► I found the different tones to introduce grammar mistakes sometimes.

00:58:21 ◼   ► I think the summaries are, are so general to be virtually useless to me throughout the

00:58:29 ◼   ► system.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Especially when you're on a webpage.

00:58:32 ◼   ► I mean the, the writing ones I haven't used a lot yet.

00:58:34 ◼   ► So I, I can't, you know, I mean, I have to heavily caveat all this by I've had this installed

00:58:40 ◼   ► for 24 hours and I've only had it with everything.

00:58:44 ◼   ► And most you've had it 48 like this is all day, day two or three impressions.

00:58:49 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:50 ◼   ► So, so yeah, and like, look, I, I it's, I think there is a place for this kind of rewriting

00:58:55 ◼   ► stuff for certain kinds of writing and things like that.

00:58:59 ◼   ► It's just not something I'm ever going to use.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Not even for an email.

00:59:02 ◼   ► So it's interesting.

00:59:04 ◼   ► I think the email and messages summaries are the best features.

00:59:08 ◼   ► So email summaries, I love the inbox summary.

00:59:17 ◼   ► It seems inconsistent as to why or why not it may give that summary, but it's, it's doing

00:59:23 ◼   ► it.

00:59:24 ◼   ► But like for example, you can also open an email and there's a summary thing at the top

00:59:28 ◼   ► and it would do this for the entire thread if it's a threaded conversation or just for

00:59:32 ◼   ► an individual email.

00:59:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:35 ◼   ► That I do actually think is very useful because you get a lot, especially when you get a lot

00:59:38 ◼   ► of HTML emails with a bunch of images and I don't know, I mean you just want to know

00:59:43 ◼   ► what are the two pieces of information that are shoved way down the page that are in there.

00:59:48 ◼   ► I found that it did a pretty good job on a couple of emails I got from companies that

00:59:51 ◼   ► were just like alerts about something that was happening.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Like I booked a hotel today and in the, like the subject, what would have been the subject,

01:00:01 ◼   ► I guess the subject summary or whatever they call it, it just said like booking made from

01:00:05 ◼   ► this date for this date, it costs this.

01:00:07 ◼   ► I was like, that is like, that's all I ever need.

01:00:10 ◼   ► I don't need to open that email.

01:00:12 ◼   ► Also, like I, you know, I subscribe to email newsletters like we all do and I got an email

01:00:16 ◼   ► newsletter, it was very long and I had summarized this and it gave me the information and then

01:00:21 ◼   ► I was like, oh great, I do want to read this one.

01:00:24 ◼   ► And so like I liked that where like, you know, like an email newsletter that's about six

01:00:29 ◼   ► different topics rather than me scrolling through and seeing what those topics are,

01:00:33 ◼   ► the summary could tell me.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:35 ◼   ► That button I think is actually very useful.

01:00:36 ◼   ► I'm not so sure about the summaries that are in the list of your messages because, you

01:00:44 ◼   ► know, it's still only three lines long and for the most part, if someone writes you a

01:00:47 ◼   ► decent email, you're going to be able to, I get more out of who the email is from than

01:00:53 ◼   ► what the first three lines say anyway and I don't think that the summary is going to

01:00:57 ◼   ► change that behavior, but I think if you do open it because you do want to see what's

01:01:02 ◼   ► in it, what you said with the button that's there, being able to summarize that and not

01:01:06 ◼   ► scroll all the way through is a nice feature.

01:01:09 ◼   ► I think it might be better when we have a situation where there's like back and forth

01:01:13 ◼   ► and we've not read them and so like, because I think the iMessage summaries are a good

01:01:18 ◼   ► example of this because I've been getting those.

01:01:21 ◼   ► So I feel like so far it's been hit and miss, but mostly hidden as given like a basic idea

01:01:30 ◼   ► of what is going on in a group thread.

01:01:32 ◼   ► So these show in notifications, but also in the message list.

01:01:38 ◼   ► Again, it's still a little bit unclear to me to what exactly triggers a summary.

01:01:43 ◼   ► Like I have had a summary for one message.

01:01:47 ◼   ► Really?

01:01:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:01:50 ◼   ► And it wasn't a particularly long message, but it was a paragraph.

01:01:54 ◼   ► Someone just sent me one message and they, I think what was particularly helpful is they

01:01:59 ◼   ► were talking about having like a busy couple of days and maybe we should talk about this

01:02:05 ◼   ► in a couple of days.

01:02:06 ◼   ► So I think it was the kind of thing where the system could really easily give me that

01:02:10 ◼   ► preview.

01:02:11 ◼   ► But I've also had them for, I had one where it was a conversation I had with my two brothers

01:02:18 ◼   ► and it says one of my brothers was sharing photos and screenshots of social media posts

01:02:23 ◼   ► and I'm like, yep, that's what my brother does.

01:02:25 ◼   ► Take screenshots of social media posts rather than sending them.

01:02:29 ◼   ► One was a conversation between me, Steven and James Thompson, where James is sending

01:02:34 ◼   ► us some pictures of the live show and it said shared photos of an auditorium of a stage

01:02:38 ◼   ► and a projector screen.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Yeah, that's exactly what it was.

01:02:41 ◼   ► There was a conversation between the three of us where I think it did the best of what

01:02:45 ◼   ► it could, where it said connected this week despite John's absence.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Now it was obviously Federico's absence, but we didn't give in the message that context,

01:02:56 ◼   ► so I actually don't really think it could have gotten that.

01:03:00 ◼   ► And then another one was with me and Adina and the Liszt family talking about having

01:03:06 ◼   ► a civil entry into the United States and having to wait for the train that they were getting.

01:03:12 ◼   ► It was a 16 message iMessage thread and that was the general conversation that was going

01:03:17 ◼   ► on.

01:03:18 ◼   ► So like I really like these for group threads, but there I have two kind of things that I'm

01:03:24 ◼   ► not sure about.

01:03:27 ◼   ► Obviously for group chats that I don't have notifications for, these summaries aren't

01:03:32 ◼   ► there, right?

01:03:34 ◼   ► Because I don't want notifications for them, but I would like the summaries.

01:03:37 ◼   ► In fact, I would like the summaries more for those, right?

01:03:42 ◼   ► And I don't think, I have not been able to confirm this, but if you have a,

01:03:48 ◼   ► so like sometimes if you have it off for, you can still see it in the message list.

01:03:53 ◼   ► It will still show the little summary in the message list, but if you have a conversation

01:03:58 ◼   ► as a pinned, I don't think it shows them for pinned messages at the moment.

01:04:02 ◼   ► And I don't know if it will.

01:04:04 ◼   ► Oh, interesting.

01:04:06 ◼   ► That one, the notification that I mentioned that was a truncated one message, when I opened

01:04:12 ◼   ► it, I have that person as a pinned contact and it didn't show me the summary there.

01:04:18 ◼   ► It was the little bubble that was above their name.

01:04:20 ◼   ► So I don't know if that's a decision or again, this stuff is early, but there is this funny

01:04:26 ◼   ► thing of like, but I would like, say like our group chat that the three of us in Federico

01:04:32 ◼   ► have, I have that muted because it can be very noisy, right?

01:04:35 ◼   ► And it's, I assume we probably all have that muted notification wise.

01:04:39 ◼   ► But I would really love it.

01:04:41 ◼   ► We all do.

01:04:42 ◼   ► It's too busy.

01:04:43 ◼   ► It's too busy and we're all busy.

01:04:46 ◼   ► I would love to get that for this, but I don't know if I can because I don't get notifications

01:04:51 ◼   ► for it.

01:04:52 ◼   ► So interesting.

01:04:53 ◼   ► But yeah, I really like the summaries of the conversations.

01:05:00 ◼   ► I think it's a really cool feature that works so far pretty well, like about as well as

01:05:05 ◼   ► I would imagine.

01:05:06 ◼   ► Well, that explains why I haven't seen any of this because I really have my noisiest

01:05:11 ◼   ► group chats pinned as it is.

01:05:13 ◼   ► So I haven't really in the last 24 hours, I haven't had any non pinned ones where they

01:05:17 ◼   ► were like, you know, half a dozen messages or whatever.

01:05:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:21 ◼   ► See, this is the benefit of me setting this up on a device that I don't use all the time.

01:05:27 ◼   ► Like it's not on my iPhone.

01:05:28 ◼   ► So like I haven't muted all of those notifications, all those messages, threads.

01:05:33 ◼   ► So like I'm getting the things for them.

01:05:36 ◼   ► So yeah, it's a very interesting feature.

01:05:40 ◼   ► And I think will be super useful for people that have a lot of message conversations going

01:05:45 ◼   ► on.

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01:07:22 ◼   ► It's uh, it's Performa Month.

01:07:24 ◼   ► Y'all excited?

01:07:26 ◼   ► Performa Month.

01:07:27 ◼   ► Performa Month.

01:07:28 ◼   ► I didn't know that was a thing.

01:07:32 ◼   ► Performa Month.

01:07:33 ◼   ► What is now John?

01:07:34 ◼   ► Are you celebrating?

01:07:36 ◼   ► Can you feel it?

01:07:37 ◼   ► I am.

01:07:38 ◼   ► You require it.

01:07:39 ◼   ► I do require it.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Look, when chat GPT first came out, I did this thing.

01:07:50 ◼   ► I asked it a bunch of things about the Performa and it didn't know.

01:07:54 ◼   ► And so I'm writing a series of blog posts to train AI models to answer Performa questions

01:07:59 ◼   ► better for the people that come after us.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Is this genuinely the reason you're doing this?

01:08:04 ◼   ► No, doing it because it's a really good idea that no one told me I shouldn't do.

01:08:09 ◼   ► That's not true either.

01:08:10 ◼   ► Jason Snell begged me not to do it.

01:08:12 ◼   ► But really here we are.

01:08:14 ◼   ► So you may be asking, what is Performa Month?

01:08:17 ◼   ► I'm intrigued.

01:08:18 ◼   ► What is Performa Month?

01:08:19 ◼   ► Well, in the month of August.

01:08:21 ◼   ► How would we celebrate?

01:08:23 ◼   ► How do you celebrate?

01:08:24 ◼   ► You celebrate by reading a series of blog posts.

01:08:27 ◼   ► The most exciting way to celebrate.

01:08:29 ◼   ► Really the way that our founding fathers wanted us to celebrate as a nation is to read blog

01:08:35 ◼   ► posts via open RSS feeds.

01:08:37 ◼   ► And as long as there's a drinking game involved with it too, I'd be okay.

01:08:41 ◼   ► Drink every time I write the word Performa in August and you will be dead because in

01:08:47 ◼   ► five years from 92 to 97, Apple shipped over 40 models with the Performa badge and no one

01:08:54 ◼   ► knows anything about them except that they were bad.

01:08:57 ◼   ► And so I wanted to help the people because I'm a man of the people.

01:09:03 ◼   ► And I've got a series of blog posts coming out in August covering every single one of

01:09:08 ◼   ► those models and their history and where they came from and why they were bad.

01:09:12 ◼   ► Wow.

01:09:13 ◼   ► Wow.

01:09:14 ◼   ► You have 40 machines in 31 days.

01:09:19 ◼   ► It's about 13.

01:09:20 ◼   ► Who are you doubling up?

01:09:22 ◼   ► Well, it's about 13 or 14 blog posts and I'm about halfway through writing them.

01:09:28 ◼   ► I've been working on this for a while in the background.

01:09:31 ◼   ► This explains some of the weird stuff you've dropped into our group chat.

01:09:35 ◼   ► And if you've been reading 512, I've been like, there were several things like while

01:09:38 ◼   ► researching another project, this is the other project.

01:09:42 ◼   ► So I've been deep in the Apple history archives in dev and think and online because when you're

01:09:48 ◼   ► covering stuff from the 90s is actually really hard to find sources and you really got to

01:09:53 ◼   ► kind of like dig deep and things very often don't agree with each other.

01:09:57 ◼   ► In fact, I wrote a post yesterday that you'll see in a couple of weeks and sources just

01:10:03 ◼   ► don't agree on how much the thing cost.

01:10:05 ◼   ► And so I just wrote I don't know how much this cost because sources disagree.

01:10:10 ◼   ► But it the performance often pointed to is like everything wrong with Apple in the 90s.

01:10:15 ◼   ► And the line itself right there.

01:10:20 ◼   ► There's no unique computers in the performer line.

01:10:22 ◼   ► What the performer was, was rebadged other Mac models stuffed to the gills with bloatware

01:10:30 ◼   ► and then sold at a discount through big box retailers.

01:10:33 ◼   ► And for a lot of people, it was their first way into the Mac.

01:10:37 ◼   ► So in some ways it did work right.

01:10:39 ◼   ► Apple wanted to reach more families with the Macintosh and this was the way they did it

01:10:45 ◼   ► to bring prices down.

01:10:46 ◼   ► They stuffed it full of software no one wanted or needed.

01:10:49 ◼   ► And it wasn't unsuccessful, but it was probably misguided.

01:10:55 ◼   ► And as we get into this August unfold, you will see that Apple really didn't have a plan

01:11:03 ◼   ► going into this.

01:11:05 ◼   ► They basically would just like stroll through their own catalog of Macs and pick something

01:11:12 ◼   ► and see what partners would be willing to put their software on it at a discount.

01:11:17 ◼   ► And then they would sell it to Sears or to Montgomery Ward or whoever.

01:11:22 ◼   ► And it's very confusing and there's so many models because they would release like the

01:11:28 ◼   ► 465 and the 467 or whatever like those are the same computer but different size hard

01:11:35 ◼   ► drives so they got different model names which is not how anything should work.

01:11:39 ◼   ► This has been built to order but it spawned a bunch of product names and a bunch of products

01:11:44 ◼   ► that didn't really make sense.

01:11:46 ◼   ► And it's been fun but also kind of frustrating in places trying to untangle it all for everybody.

01:11:52 ◼   ► But that's what's up.

01:11:53 ◼   ► That's what 512 pixels is going to be about in August.

01:11:55 ◼   ► It's going to be all about the performer.

01:11:58 ◼   ► This is a joke just for John but maybe like Mac performers is basically like the Ioneo.

01:12:04 ◼   ► They just had another one going on sale a couple of days ago.

01:12:12 ◼   ► Of course they did.

01:12:13 ◼   ► You can set your watch to that thing.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Oh yeah for sure.

01:12:17 ◼   ► Stephen give me an example of bloatware on the performer.

01:12:20 ◼   ► Okay so the Performa 560 had Clarisworks 2.0, Mac link plus translators, Quicken 4.0, Mac

01:12:30 ◼   ► and tax 1040, Wealth Builder 3.0, Personal Recordkeeper 3.0, Willmaker 4.0, After Dark

01:12:36 ◼   ► Starter Edition, Datebook Pro, Touch Base Pro, Apple Heritage Dictionary 3rd edition,

01:12:43 ◼   ► Apple Edition of America Online, Groyler's Encyclopedia, Time Almanac of 1993, Monopoly,

01:12:51 ◼   ► the World Tour Gold Edition.

01:12:54 ◼   ► Those were all pre-installed on your hard drive.

01:12:58 ◼   ► And then you got on CD another encyclopedia or the Encyclopedia of the Almanac and Monopoly

01:13:06 ◼   ► World Tour were all on on those CD-ROMs.

01:13:10 ◼   ► So a bunch of software on the disk, a bunch of stuff on CDs.

01:13:15 ◼   ► Not all performers came with CDs, CD drives so it varied obviously.

01:13:21 ◼   ► But yeah it's a real situation.

01:13:25 ◼   ► I don't understand why somebody would need an app to make their will.

01:13:30 ◼   ► Like how often are you doing it?

01:13:33 ◼   ► A lawyer might be a better choice.

01:13:35 ◼   ► Well I mean now you just ask Apple intelligence to do it.

01:13:40 ◼   ► Yes of course.

01:13:42 ◼   ► Wow.

01:13:43 ◼   ► See that's a little joke about AI taking people's jobs.

01:13:48 ◼   ► No it's good, it's good.

01:13:51 ◼   ► When Stephen told me he was doing this I said to him that seems like a lot of work.

01:13:55 ◼   ► I respect the commitment and if it makes you happy you should do it.

01:13:58 ◼   ► That was my response and I messaged him and he told me he wanted to do this.

01:14:02 ◼   ► It does seem like a lot of work.

01:14:05 ◼   ► What did you say about performers that they were, what did you say misguided and what

01:14:11 ◼   ► was it that you said?

01:14:12 ◼   ► The performer?

01:14:13 ◼   ► I mean to a degree it did its job of like getting people their first max but it was

01:14:20 ◼   ► a pretty weird way of doing it.

01:14:25 ◼   ► And Apple, what they should have done and what they did when Jobs came back and got

01:14:29 ◼   ► rid of all this mess was just make a really good consumer Mac.

01:14:33 ◼   ► But they weren't able to do that back then and so they got a bunch of quadras and LCs

01:14:40 ◼   ► and other machines and just literally just put a different name on them and sold them

01:14:44 ◼   ► through a different channel.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Do you think that this could end up in a scenario where you buy all of these?

01:14:53 ◼   ► This was the path of the IMAX.

01:14:55 ◼   ► It's true.

01:14:56 ◼   ► I did buy one because I wanted a photo of something really specific but I've only bought

01:15:02 ◼   ► one computer so far and I'm like halfway through writing these.

01:15:05 ◼   ► So far so good.

01:15:06 ◼   ► At least you said so far.

01:15:08 ◼   ► You didn't say I've only bought one or I'll only buy one.

01:15:11 ◼   ► You said so far so you know yourself.

01:15:14 ◼   ► There was one, it's actually the Performa 200 so that article comes out on the first.

01:15:21 ◼   ► That one I really wanted a photo because that article is about like no these really were

01:15:26 ◼   ► just other Mac models with new names and a bunch of bloatware.

01:15:30 ◼   ► And so that one I wanted a photo of its actual counterpart but you never know what late night

01:15:37 ◼   ► eBay Steven may get into.

01:15:40 ◼   ► Do you have a saved search for performers?

01:15:43 ◼   ► No because it would be a lot of results.

01:15:47 ◼   ► Really?

01:15:48 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean I don't imagine you'll actually buy a lot of Performas.

01:15:54 ◼   ► Maybe I'll be proven wrong but at least with the IMAX it was a much more limited set of

01:15:59 ◼   ► computers and they were actually nicely designed.

01:16:02 ◼   ► A lot of these are just beige boxes basically right?

01:16:06 ◼   ► Yeah, not a lot of inspired design work.

01:16:08 ◼   ► In fact the 500 series, that article comes out on the seventh is basically all about

01:16:15 ◼   ► the design of the computer and the design is not good.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Yeah this is a sad eBay search.

01:16:23 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:24 ◼   ► It's full of very uninspiring imagery.

01:16:28 ◼   ► Dirty beige computers.

01:16:29 ◼   ► Yeah basically and they all look essentially the same.

01:16:33 ◼   ► I did find a remote control with an Apple logo on it from a 1995 Macintosh LC 630 performer

01:16:40 ◼   ► for 15 pounds.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Oh good.

01:16:42 ◼   ► That's definitely not the name of the computer LC whatever you said 630 performer.

01:16:46 ◼   ► Someone's doing some clickbait in their eBay search.

01:16:49 ◼   ► But it's just like this weird bit of Apple history that I have not explored.

01:16:55 ◼   ► I have not done much work in the 92 to 97 era.

01:16:59 ◼   ► A lot of work including like 20 max right?

01:17:02 ◼   ► Most of that stuff is in the Jobs 2.0 era or the very beginning right?

01:17:06 ◼   ► These like middle years of just slog coming out of Apple is such a nightmare.

01:17:13 ◼   ► So part of it was a challenge like you know what I haven't spent much time here and there's

01:17:18 ◼   ► not a lot out there about these machines and it seemed like an opportunity to do something

01:17:23 ◼   ► that probably for good reason no one else has done.

01:17:27 ◼   ► So here we are.

01:17:28 ◼   ► Yeah it seems like a real research challenge for sure given the time frame.

01:17:33 ◼   ► Guess the price of an Apple Macintosh LC performer Quadra hard disk drive SCSI data cable on

01:17:40 ◼   ► eBay.

01:17:41 ◼   ► What are they actually selling a cable?

01:17:44 ◼   ► Yeah it's a SCSI data cable for a hard disk drive.

01:17:48 ◼   ► It should be like $8 but they're probably asking $100.

01:17:52 ◼   ► Okay John do you want to guess?

01:17:56 ◼   ► $40.

01:17:57 ◼   ► $1707.

01:17:58 ◼   ► Jeez.

01:17:59 ◼   ► This is from John's vintage computer items.

01:18:04 ◼   ► John is this you?

01:18:05 ◼   ► No it's not me.

01:18:06 ◼   ► Is this you John?

01:18:07 ◼   ► No one.

01:18:08 ◼   ► I put a link to it in the Discord.

01:18:09 ◼   ► No one should buy that.

01:18:11 ◼   ► That's ridiculous.

01:18:12 ◼   ► It's just a data cable for a performer.

01:18:14 ◼   ► Oh boy.

01:18:15 ◼   ► So yeah performer month.

01:18:19 ◼   ► Get psyched.

01:18:20 ◼   ► Get hyped.

01:18:21 ◼   ► That's right.

01:18:22 ◼   ► Let's go.

01:18:23 ◼   ► Beige max all month.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Beige max all month.

01:18:27 ◼   ► Beige let's go Beige.

01:18:29 ◼   ► Let's go Beige.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Let's go Beige.

01:18:32 ◼   ► Steven no one has a commitment like you.

01:18:35 ◼   ► You know?

01:18:36 ◼   ► Something like that.

01:18:37 ◼   ► Because you must know you must know this isn't going to be the most popular thing you've

01:18:41 ◼   ► done right?

01:18:42 ◼   ► No.

01:18:43 ◼   ► And probably like effort to clicks might be.

01:18:47 ◼   ► It's going to be bad.

01:18:49 ◼   ► Real bad.

01:18:50 ◼   ► I respect you and your commitment you know for feeding the LLM.

01:18:55 ◼   ► It goes back to the conversation we had.

01:18:57 ◼   ► I mean sometimes it's the things that you care about most that get the fewest views.

01:19:02 ◼   ► I've been there a million times.

01:19:05 ◼   ► And look if you're out there and you want to sponsor this madness get in touch because

01:19:09 ◼   ► I ain't making any money on this.

01:19:12 ◼   ► I'll sponsor it.

01:19:13 ◼   ► How much?

01:19:14 ◼   ► Okay we'll talk offline.

01:19:17 ◼   ► Just a picture of me.

01:19:18 ◼   ► Oh just literally there's a picture of you on the page?

01:19:21 ◼   ► Yeah yeah Mike is sponsoring this.

01:19:23 ◼   ► Not any of my business endeavors just me.

01:19:26 ◼   ► We'll see.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Come up with something.

01:19:30 ◼   ► We should sponsor it for Federico's birthday.

01:19:34 ◼   ► We should.

01:19:35 ◼   ► This is brought to you by Federico.

01:19:38 ◼   ► You can do more real work on a performer than any of the iPads that he uses.

01:19:43 ◼   ► I mean with all that software you know good luck making a will on an iPad.

01:19:47 ◼   ► You can't do real legal work on a tablet.

01:19:49 ◼   ► Come on.

01:19:50 ◼   ► Great point.

01:19:51 ◼   ► Great point.

01:19:52 ◼   ► I think that does it for this week.

01:19:54 ◼   ► If you want to find links to things we spoke about especially performer month because my

01:19:58 ◼   ► gosh why would you not want to know about performer month check out the links there

01:20:03 ◼   ► in the show notes there on the web at relay.fm/connected/512.

01:20:10 ◼   ► What a good episode number.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Yeah we got pretty far into it about making lots of references to that.

01:20:16 ◼   ► I know it's good.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Although the header in Notion is a dock out this week which is fun.

01:20:20 ◼   ► Yep.

01:20:21 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:20:22 ◼   ► It's good.

01:20:23 ◼   ► John thank you for joining us again.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Where can people find you?

01:20:26 ◼   ► You can find me over at maxstories.net where I'm writing and doing a bunch of other podcasts.

01:20:32 ◼   ► Listen to MPC is so good.

01:20:36 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:20:38 ◼   ► That's our portable handheld gaming podcast with Brendan Bigley, me and Federico.

01:20:43 ◼   ► Yeah that's.

01:20:44 ◼   ► I'm not into gaming but it seems like a good time.

01:20:52 ◼   ► I'm not into performers but seems like good blog posts.

01:20:55 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:20:57 ◼   ► We all have these things.

01:21:01 ◼   ► Thank you John for joining us once again.

01:21:02 ◼   ► It's always a pleasure to have you.

01:21:04 ◼   ► Thanks for having me.

01:21:05 ◼   ► If you want to find Mike his work is scattered across the relay universe.

01:21:09 ◼   ► A bunch of shows and he does a bunch of awesome work over at Cortex brand.

01:21:14 ◼   ► You can find Mike on social media as imyke.

01:21:19 ◼   ► You can find me at 512pixels.net home of performer month.

01:21:29 ◼   ► The best time of the year.

01:21:31 ◼   ► Steven aren't you afraid that this is going to overshadow the St. Jude campaign?

01:21:36 ◼   ► That's why this is in August and that's in September.

01:21:39 ◼   ► Yeah but it starts August 28th.

01:21:41 ◼   ► I know.

01:21:42 ◼   ► His last couple of days.

01:21:43 ◼   ► They're not going to raise a cent.

01:21:46 ◼   ► The culmination of performer month.

01:21:48 ◼   ► Let me tell you that past Steven has already thought about that and I have a solution to

01:21:53 ◼   ► this.

01:21:54 ◼   ► Oh my god.

01:21:55 ◼   ► You're going to destroy a performer.

01:21:57 ◼   ► John I will never do that.

01:21:59 ◼   ► Okay.

01:22:00 ◼   ► Take that back.

01:22:01 ◼   ► He might.

01:22:02 ◼   ► I'm not.

01:22:03 ◼   ► What sort of monster.

01:22:04 ◼   ► I actually already have the PCs plural we're going to smash this year for the podcastathon.

01:22:10 ◼   ► If you smashed a performer you might be able to find some $1,700 cables that you could

01:22:15 ◼   ► sell.

01:22:16 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:22:17 ◼   ► It's like a real good pinata.

01:22:19 ◼   ► What a pirate that person is.

01:22:20 ◼   ► Okay you can find me at 512pixels.net and ismh86 on social media.

01:22:25 ◼   ► I also host MacPower users here on Relay each and every Sunday.

01:22:28 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week.

01:22:31 ◼   ► 1Password, Extended Access Management, Vitaly and ZocDoc.

01:22:35 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our members who support us directly.

01:22:37 ◼   ► If you want to get connected pro which is the longer ad free version of the show.

01:22:41 ◼   ► There's a link in the show notes where you can sign up.

01:22:44 ◼   ► There's also a link in the show notes to leave feedback or follow up for this episode.

01:22:48 ◼   ► We'd love to hear from you.

01:22:49 ◼   ► Until next time guys.

01:22:51 ◼   ► Say goodbye.

01:22:52 ◼   ► Ciao guys.

01:22:53 ◼   ► I did it again.

01:22:54 ◼   ► I did it again.

01:22:55 ◼   ► You guys wait too long.

01:22:56 ◼   ► I did it again.

01:22:57 ◼   ► Bye y'all.

01:22:58 ◼   ► I did it again.

01:23:04 ◼   ► [laughter]

01:23:05 ◼   ► >> Thank you.