Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:03 ◼   ► From Real FM, this is Connected, episode 495.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by our three excellent sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Ecamm, Zuck, Docking, Squarespace.

00:00:16 ◼   ► I'm one of your co-hosts, Federico Vittucci,

00:00:18 ◼   ► and it's my pleasure to introduce Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello, Steven.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hello, Federico.

00:00:23 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm doing fantastic.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Good.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I'm glad to hear that.

00:00:27 ◼   ► And we are also joined by Mike Hurley.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Hello, governors.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Hello, sir.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Yes, sir.

00:00:36 ◼   ► We'll start the show with some follow up.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:38 ◼   ► OK.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Comes from Keegan.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Keegan writes in first and says, I'm a classical musician--

00:00:43 ◼   ► cellist-- who uses an iPad Pro 12.9 inch from reading my sheet

00:00:48 ◼   ► music.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Paper-like screen protector is great for reducing glare

00:00:52 ◼   ► when my iPad is on a music stand,

00:00:54 ◼   ► so I would be tempted by a nano-textured iPad Pro.

00:00:58 ◼   ► I would like to just give a quick aside here

00:01:00 ◼   ► for something I didn't realize in like six days.

00:01:03 ◼   ► It can't be nano-textured because you can't touch that.

00:01:05 ◼   ► But let's just call it matte screen iPad Pro.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Of course, my iPad is basically a glorified PDF viewer,

00:01:13 ◼   ► so I'm probably more tempted by a 12.9 inch iPad Air

00:01:17 ◼   ► to save some money.

00:01:19 ◼   ► This is good.

00:01:20 ◼   ► The main reason I wanted to talk about this is for that idea.

00:01:23 ◼   ► This, from Keegan, kind of sparked a thought in my mind.

00:01:27 ◼   ► Well, I wonder if the existence of a bigger iPad Air, which

00:01:31 ◼   ► may come at some point-- it still has not--

00:01:33 ◼   ► would actually take away more of the Pro market

00:01:37 ◼   ► than the Plus phone takes from the Max phone.

00:01:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:01:40 ◼   ► And in fact, this is quite perfect

00:01:43 ◼   ► because I have follow up from my real life that is very much

00:01:48 ◼   ► about what you just said, Mike.

00:01:50 ◼   ► So Sylvia is studying for a new advanced course

00:01:55 ◼   ► that she needs to teach dance and Pilates and all

00:02:00 ◼   ► that sort of stuff.

00:02:01 ◼   ► And so she has these video courses

00:02:03 ◼   ► that she needs to follow.

00:02:05 ◼   ► And so she asked me this week, hey,

00:02:07 ◼   ► what's the best way for me to follow along with these videos?

00:02:09 ◼   ► And mind you, these are like two hour long videos

00:02:12 ◼   ► that she needs to study and take notes on.

00:02:14 ◼   ► And she was like, should I use my MacBook Pro,

00:02:17 ◼   ► or maybe is it time that I try an iPad again?

00:02:21 ◼   ► And so I was like, yeah, you can try an iPad.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Were you trying to play it really cool there?

00:02:26 ◼   ► Like, you're the iPad guy.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Be like, you don't want to come in too strong.

00:02:31 ◼   ► She's like, yeah, I mean, I guess.

00:02:33 ◼   ► You got to play cool with it.

00:02:34 ◼   ► Yeah, because I'm sure that in Federico's family life,

00:02:38 ◼   ► the answer to many questions is, why not just use an iPad?

00:02:43 ◼   ► I'm sure this comes up a lot.

00:02:45 ◼   ► Or let me cut open a MacBook Air for you.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Yeah, no, if I seem too eager with her of anything,

00:02:52 ◼   ► like she's going to be immediately turned off.

00:02:54 ◼   ► You know?

00:02:55 ◼   ► That's a different thing.

00:02:57 ◼   ► That's a problem.

00:02:58 ◼   ► You know, I don't sound too excited about an iPad.

00:03:04 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, sure.

00:03:08 ◼   ► You like rip open like your trench coat

00:03:14 ◼   ► and it's just iPads all taped on the inside.

00:03:16 ◼   ► It's like, I got a bunch for you to choose from right here.

00:03:18 ◼   ► I literally have a section in storage.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Like we have a storage box downstairs.

00:03:24 ◼   ► And like I have a whole section just iPads.

00:03:26 ◼   ► I have like six different iPads or something.

00:03:29 ◼   ► So anyway, I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go grab you an iPad,

00:03:32 ◼   ► reset it, and set it up for you.

00:03:34 ◼   ► And so I gave her the latest iPad Air that I have,

00:03:39 ◼   ► which is the fourth gen iPad Air, I believe.

00:03:42 ◼   ► And so she used it for a couple of days.

00:03:44 ◼   ► So I'm going to skip ahead.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Spoiler alert, she went back to the MacBook Pro

00:03:49 ◼   ► as the main device to take notes.

00:03:53 ◼   ► And a couple of interesting points here.

00:03:54 ◼   ► So she's using free form in a really cool way.

00:03:58 ◼   ► She has the video on one side

00:04:00 ◼   ► and a free form board on the other.

00:04:03 ◼   ► And she's taking all kinds of like cool looking visual notes.

00:04:08 ◼   ► She's got like sticky notes and text boxes

00:04:10 ◼   ► and a bunch of handwritten notes with a pencil.

00:04:12 ◼   ► She's got colored arrows and shapes.

00:04:15 ◼   ► Like it looks very cool.

00:04:17 ◼   ► And it's like, yeah, that's a perfect use of free form.

00:04:20 ◼   ► She tried the iPad.

00:04:22 ◼   ► And within an hour of trying an iPad Air,

00:04:25 ◼   ► so this is the iPad Air with the magic keyboard,

00:04:28 ◼   ► like the latest version of an iPad Air.

00:04:32 ◼   ► She said within an hour,

00:04:34 ◼   ► this is nice because it's much lighter

00:04:37 ◼   ► and portable than a Mac, but the screen is too small.

00:04:40 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:04:41 ◼   ► The comment about like a bigger iPad Air,

00:04:44 ◼   ► I think it would be interesting for a lot of people.

00:04:47 ◼   ► She said, "Split View multitasking on this device,

00:04:52 ◼   ► it's much better than Split View on a Mac,"

00:04:57 ◼   ► which is the weird full screen thing.

00:05:00 ◼   ► She saw Stage Manager

00:05:03 ◼   ► and immediately went back to Split View.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Like she hated like all the windows moving around

00:05:10 ◼   ► and like all the weird sizes and all of that.

00:05:12 ◼   ► But then her biggest comment is that,

00:05:16 ◼   ► like besides wanting a larger iPad Air

00:05:20 ◼   ► because the screen was still too small,

00:05:22 ◼   ► she said using an iPad feels better

00:05:27 ◼   ► compared to the last time I tried it,

00:05:30 ◼   ► which was like a couple of years ago.

00:05:32 ◼   ► But I am surprised that there are still so many things

00:05:36 ◼   ► that are like behind macOS.

00:05:40 ◼   ► Like a very simple thing.

00:05:42 ◼   ► She was looking for like a button in Safari

00:05:47 ◼   ► that wasn't there and the Mac version has it

00:05:51 ◼   ► and the iPad version doesn't.

00:05:53 ◼   ► And there are like so many like things

00:05:55 ◼   ► that you can do in the Mac version of an application

00:05:59 ◼   ► that you cannot do in the iPad version.

00:06:02 ◼   ► And another example was like,

00:06:04 ◼   ► so on the Mac I have Finder and I have Dropbox in Finder

00:06:09 ◼   ► and I can just go there and a document syncs with Dropbox,

00:06:13 ◼   ► but I can also open it with Preview.

00:06:15 ◼   ► And so she asked me,

00:06:16 ◼   ► so two questions, is there a Preview on iPadOS

00:06:20 ◼   ► and can I do the same thing with Dropbox and Files?

00:06:23 ◼   ► And I just looked at it and I was like,

00:06:25 ◼   ► now you know my pain,

00:06:28 ◼   ► because there's no Preview app on the iPad

00:06:31 ◼   ► and there's no Dropbox integration on the iPad.

00:06:34 ◼   ► And so she went back to the Mac and she told me,

00:06:38 ◼   ► I'm gonna try again in a couple of years.

00:06:40 ◼   ► And if they do a bigger iPad Air, that's gonna be nice.

00:06:45 ◼   ► But yeah, I just prefer working on a Mac.

00:06:47 ◼   ► So.

00:06:48 ◼   ► - Story is the oldest time at this point.

00:06:51 ◼   ► - I knew I liked her the moment I met her.

00:06:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Me too, even though it's challenging for me.

00:06:59 ◼   ► - The thing that I wonder is like,

00:07:01 ◼   ► do people want the biggest iPad or the best iPad?

00:07:08 ◼   ► Because I think with the iPhone,

00:07:12 ◼   ► people want the best iPhone.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Like they just want the best iPhone,

00:07:15 ◼   ► which is why the Pro phones sell the best.

00:07:18 ◼   ► And I think why the Macs, I think,

00:07:19 ◼   ► sells the best of all of them at the moment.

00:07:21 ◼   ► But nevertheless, it's why the Pro phones,

00:07:24 ◼   ► they sell better.

00:07:27 ◼   ► - And I'm just wondering if that's gonna be the case

00:07:30 ◼   ► for the iPad.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Like does the iPad Pro do well because people want

00:07:33 ◼   ► a big iPad or the best iPad?

00:07:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:07:36 ◼   ► - I think maybe people want the biggest iPad

00:07:39 ◼   ► that doesn't cost a fortune.

00:07:40 ◼   ► - I think that might be the case, yes.

00:07:42 ◼   ► - The one question on my mind right now,

00:07:45 ◼   ► as we are still waiting for this new iPad,

00:07:48 ◼   ► the question on my mind is,

00:07:50 ◼   ► what will Apple do to justify

00:07:53 ◼   ► potentially spending even more money?

00:07:55 ◼   ► I mean, in Europe, an iPad Pro is 2000 euros,

00:07:59 ◼   ► like in a pretty standard configuration

00:08:02 ◼   ► with a magic keyboard and everything.

00:08:04 ◼   ► What does Apple do to,

00:08:06 ◼   ► I mean, it's really quite a task to justify

00:08:09 ◼   ► at that price an iPad Pro

00:08:10 ◼   ► for the trajectory that iPadOS is on.

00:08:14 ◼   ► But if those prices get even higher,

00:08:17 ◼   ► what is the story there besides,

00:08:19 ◼   ► oh yeah, it's got a nicer display, right?

00:08:23 ◼   ► That is the one question on my mind right now.

00:08:25 ◼   ► - Maybe this is why they haven't released it yet

00:08:27 ◼   ► 'cause they're not sure.

00:08:28 ◼   ► They're still working it out, you know?

00:08:29 ◼   ► It's like, oh, what's the story, man?

00:08:31 ◼   ► What is it?

00:08:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:08:33 ◼   ► - What are we typing in this press release?

00:08:34 ◼   ► - They're just all sitting there in a warehouse unit

00:08:38 ◼   ► and they're just waiting.

00:08:39 ◼   ► - They're looking at them, be like,

00:08:40 ◼   ► ah, guys, I got it, I got it.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Maybe, no, I don't have it.

00:08:45 ◼   ► - And that's why the phone, I think,

00:08:47 ◼   ► is an interesting counterpoint

00:08:49 ◼   ► because the Max, the Pro Max has real differences, right?

00:08:54 ◼   ► You get the extra camera, you get the different build.

00:08:58 ◼   ► It's faster.

00:09:00 ◼   ► And so far on the iPad,

00:09:01 ◼   ► like yeah, there's the screen and the 12.9,

00:09:04 ◼   ► but honestly, I don't think anyone

00:09:07 ◼   ► who's like cross shopping these cares about,

00:09:09 ◼   ► does it have the M1 or the M2 or the M3?

00:09:12 ◼   ► Like, I don't think the silicon is enough

00:09:14 ◼   ► to justify the stratification.

00:09:17 ◼   ► So it's gotta be something else.

00:09:19 ◼   ► And I guess we'll find out one day

00:09:21 ◼   ► if they decide to release these things.

00:09:23 ◼   ► - Someday.

00:09:24 ◼   ► - Someday.

00:09:25 ◼   ► - The Department of Justice sued Apple.

00:09:28 ◼   ► - This is a follow up.

00:09:29 ◼   ► - I don't think, well, 'cause, I mean, it is kind of.

00:09:33 ◼   ► I've put it here because it's like,

00:09:34 ◼   ► you kind of can't not mention it,

00:09:36 ◼   ► but I don't think we're gonna talk about it.

00:09:38 ◼   ► - No. - No.

00:09:39 ◼   ► - So there are places where you can go.

00:09:41 ◼   ► One True John did a great job putting his thing together.

00:09:46 ◼   ► I'll link to Jason's article.

00:09:48 ◼   ► I'll also link to Upgrade where we spoke about it.

00:09:50 ◼   ► I just, how much are we gonna talk about it?

00:09:54 ◼   ► I don't think we need to talk about it.

00:09:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, just listen to Upgrade,

00:09:58 ◼   ► read the story by John, and, you know,

00:10:01 ◼   ► what else is there to say?

00:10:03 ◼   ► We're just waiting to see what happens.

00:10:05 ◼   ► I think Apple obviously will have a response

00:10:07 ◼   ► within the next couple of months,

00:10:08 ◼   ► and then it'll be a long strung up battle of multiple years.

00:10:13 ◼   ► So fun times, yeah.

00:10:17 ◼   ► - Oh, and also the European Union is like, no, Apple.

00:10:22 ◼   ► It's not good enough.

00:10:24 ◼   ► They're investigating them.

00:10:26 ◼   ► Because, and so like, maybe, fingers crossed,

00:10:29 ◼   ► how long have we got until we have to grade that draft?

00:10:32 ◼   ► - I thought it was due today.

00:10:33 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, no.

00:10:34 ◼   ► - No, it's in April. - It's on.

00:10:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, April 17th.

00:10:38 ◼   ► - Oh, okay. - Okay, fingers crossed.

00:10:39 ◼   ► - Okay, okay, okay. - Just one of the things

00:10:40 ◼   ► they're looking into is the,

00:10:41 ◼   ► it seems like the core technology fee, so.

00:10:44 ◼   ► - We have time, we have time.

00:10:45 ◼   ► Okay, okay.

00:10:47 ◼   ► - Big news, VVVDC 24 has been announced.

00:10:52 ◼   ► - VVVDC, okay.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - The World Wide Developers Conference.

00:10:56 ◼   ► - The World Wide.

00:10:57 ◼   ► - Ah-ah!

00:10:59 ◼   ► - That is, did you see the,

00:11:04 ◼   ► obviously we're joking about the logo,

00:11:07 ◼   ► but did you see that people are making fun of the fact

00:11:10 ◼   ► that maybe it was a logo designed with AI?

00:11:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, it was.

00:11:14 ◼   ► - That's typically, but it's funny because-

00:11:17 ◼   ► - That would be funny.

00:11:18 ◼   ► - Because AI tools typically get the two Ws

00:11:21 ◼   ► next to each other wrong.

00:11:23 ◼   ► - Well, they just get all words.

00:11:24 ◼   ► Like if you're just like put in a word,

00:11:25 ◼   ► it's like just random nonsense that it puts in.

00:11:29 ◼   ► But that is, I will say, that is a funny thought.

00:11:31 ◼   ► I think you've been serious, but that's pretty funny.

00:11:33 ◼   ► - If you think about it,

00:11:34 ◼   ► the W is like the hands of the alphabet.

00:11:39 ◼   ► And AI can't do either.

00:11:40 ◼   ► - This isn't the first time they did,

00:11:44 ◼   ► like last year it looked like this, right?

00:11:45 ◼   ► At least on the merchandise. - Did it?

00:11:47 ◼   ► - Like I have a tote bag and it looks like that.

00:11:49 ◼   ► - Hmm.

00:11:51 ◼   ► - They joined the Ws together.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Maybe it's just getting smaller over time.

00:11:55 ◼   ► I like it though.

00:11:57 ◼   ► The logo is fun.

00:11:59 ◼   ► It's very reminiscent of older logos.

00:12:01 ◼   ► Like I feel like they've used this kind of style a lot,

00:12:03 ◼   ► like the kind of neon-y, shimmery stuff.

00:12:05 ◼   ► - It's very similar to last year.

00:12:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:12:10 ◼   ► So funny thing, last year they announced it

00:12:12 ◼   ► as we were going live with connected

00:12:14 ◼   ► and we had to like jump off.

00:12:16 ◼   ► It happened for remaster yesterday.

00:12:17 ◼   ► So we were all sitting down to record

00:12:20 ◼   ► and then it dropped and then Porsche had to wait a while

00:12:22 ◼   ► while Federico mainly was doing things

00:12:25 ◼   ► and I was reading things.

00:12:26 ◼   ► - Same with MacPow Reasers actually.

00:12:28 ◼   ► - Oh really?

00:12:29 ◼   ► - We were hitting record and it came out

00:12:31 ◼   ► and I was like, no, I gotta go like,

00:12:34 ◼   ► fix a hotel room situation and then came back and recorded.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause it wasn't the week

00:12:39 ◼   ► we thought it was gonna be, right?

00:12:41 ◼   ► - I thought it'd be June 3rd

00:12:43 ◼   ► and that is the week of the 10th instead.

00:12:46 ◼   ► So, but it's fine.

00:12:47 ◼   ► - My memory is that you sounded very confident last week.

00:12:50 ◼   ► - I felt very confident last week

00:12:52 ◼   ► but this means I don't have to travel

00:12:53 ◼   ► on my wedding anniversary so that's always good.

00:12:55 ◼   ► - That is actually good news.

00:12:57 ◼   ► - Good news.

00:12:58 ◼   ► So yeah, June 10th, there is gonna be

00:13:01 ◼   ► a special event at Apple Park just one day.

00:13:05 ◼   ► - What do you think it's gonna be?

00:13:08 ◼   ► - I don't know, maybe paintball or something.

00:13:10 ◼   ► - Say special event.

00:13:12 ◼   ► - Can you imagine?

00:13:13 ◼   ► We open the center of the ring.

00:13:15 ◼   ► Last developer standing, they get a 3% cut difference

00:13:18 ◼   ► on the developer rights.

00:13:20 ◼   ► - I think it's gonna be a public reading of the DMA.

00:13:26 ◼   ► - Could be.

00:13:28 ◼   ► - We decided to respond.

00:13:30 ◼   ► Maybe it's like, we were just going now,

00:13:34 ◼   ► like there are new developer terms

00:13:36 ◼   ► and if you stay inside of Apple Park, you can have them

00:13:38 ◼   ► but if you leave, then you have to go back to the old one.

00:13:41 ◼   ► - Interesting, interesting.

00:13:42 ◼   ► - What if it's like a Renaissance fair?

00:13:49 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - They're leaning into what California thinks of Europe,

00:13:53 ◼   ► I guess, Renaissance fair, there's food and stuff

00:13:56 ◼   ► but there's also games you can play.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Like you can like ring toss and horseshoes and stuff

00:14:03 ◼   ► but if you're too good at it, they take 50 cents

00:14:07 ◼   ► for like every ring you get on it.

00:14:09 ◼   ► The core technology feeds in there.

00:14:10 ◼   ► - The more points you earn, the less money you make

00:14:14 ◼   ► at the end of it.

00:14:16 ◼   ► - Interesting, interesting, interesting idea

00:14:17 ◼   ► for the Renaissance fair.

00:14:18 ◼   ► I could say Tim Cook as a town crier, honestly.

00:14:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:14:23 ◼   ► - Bill Schiller's in the stocks after arguing with Epic

00:14:26 ◼   ► but also, so there's that but then there's also

00:14:30 ◼   ► like another Renaissance fair, like two doors down

00:14:33 ◼   ► that's not as good but has different things going on.

00:14:38 ◼   ► It's like the alternative Renaissance fair.

00:14:41 ◼   ► - That's good, didn't know where you're going with that.

00:14:43 ◼   ► - I understand now.

00:14:45 ◼   ► So I'm gonna make the executive decision to move on.

00:14:48 ◼   ► - Yes, thank you.

00:14:49 ◼   ► - There is a new Apple developer YouTube account

00:14:53 ◼   ► where they're gonna actually this year post the sessions.

00:14:56 ◼   ► There's some stuff up there from WWDC 23

00:14:59 ◼   ► and some other fun videos that are up there

00:15:02 ◼   ► and they're gonna be posting them there

00:15:04 ◼   ► which I think is really great.

00:15:05 ◼   ► Like why not?

00:15:06 ◼   ► - Much better to use YouTube and YouTube compatible apps

00:15:11 ◼   ► than being stuck inside the developer app.

00:15:13 ◼   ► I know this is gonna be very convenient for me

00:15:15 ◼   ► to organize my research, yeah.

00:15:17 ◼   ► - And as content creators,

00:15:18 ◼   ► we all get a very short period of time

00:15:20 ◼   ► where we get to go to this official Apple YouTube account

00:15:23 ◼   ► and feel good that the videos are like 300 views per video

00:15:26 ◼   ► 'cause obviously that won't be the case.

00:15:29 ◼   ► Next WWDC comes around but like for right now

00:15:31 ◼   ► we can all be like, oh look,

00:15:32 ◼   ► we get more views on YouTube than Apple.

00:15:34 ◼   ► - Look at this cute account with 15K subscribers.

00:15:37 ◼   ► - Try again, you know.

00:15:39 ◼   ► But I'm sure by the time WWDC 24 comes around,

00:15:43 ◼   ► it will be very different.

00:15:44 ◼   ► I think it's great that they're putting this stuff

00:15:45 ◼   ► on YouTube, like it makes it more accessible

00:15:47 ◼   ► and easier for people rather than having to use

00:15:50 ◼   ► the Apple developer app.

00:15:51 ◼   ► It will also surface this content to more people

00:15:54 ◼   ► which will be good.

00:15:55 ◼   ► It might more frequently show up in search results

00:15:58 ◼   ► and stuff like that for people who are actually looking

00:15:59 ◼   ► for this exact stuff.

00:16:01 ◼   ► So I think this is good.

00:16:02 ◼   ► I like this, I like them going out

00:16:04 ◼   ► and like meeting people where they are

00:16:06 ◼   ► rather than making people come to them.

00:16:08 ◼   ► Like I think that's what WWDC has been about

00:16:10 ◼   ► for the last three years, four years now.

00:16:13 ◼   ► And I think that this is another example of that.

00:16:15 ◼   ► So I actually think all jokes aside,

00:16:17 ◼   ► this is like a really good thing to exist

00:16:19 ◼   ► because why make it more complicated for people

00:16:22 ◼   ► than otherwise?

00:16:23 ◼   ► So I think it's really good.

00:16:24 ◼   ► Greg Josuac said that WWDC will be absolutely incredible.

00:16:32 ◼   ► So there you go.

00:16:35 ◼   ► - Capitalize.

00:16:36 ◼   ► I love that the Jaws has the sense of humor

00:16:38 ◼   ► of a connected segment.

00:16:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:16:42 ◼   ► - Do you know?

00:16:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:16:43 ◼   ► - Which I appreciate.

00:16:44 ◼   ► I mean, okay, AI, cool.

00:16:48 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:16:49 ◼   ► So I'm going, Steven is going.

00:16:53 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:16:54 ◼   ► - Mike is not going.

00:16:55 ◼   ► - I'm leaving it like a little open.

00:16:58 ◼   ► My plan is no, but some things might change

00:17:01 ◼   ► and I might be able to.

00:17:03 ◼   ► So like--

00:17:04 ◼   ► - Okay, okay.

00:17:05 ◼   ► - Is the option.

00:17:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm probably like 80% no.

00:17:10 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:17:11 ◼   ► - But we'll see.

00:17:12 ◼   ► - Okay, we'll see with that 20%.

00:17:16 ◼   ► - This episode of the show is made possible by Ecamm.

00:17:22 ◼   ► If you're using your Mac for live video production

00:17:26 ◼   ► or live streaming, you gotta be using Ecamm.

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00:17:43 ◼   ► And I love Ecamm.

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00:17:48 ◼   ► They're taking advantage of all the stuff Apple is doing

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00:17:57 ◼   ► windows, you can manage the background.

00:17:59 ◼   ► All this is really easy.

00:18:00 ◼   ► They even have this cool live camera switcher.

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00:18:54 ◼   ► Go there to check it out.

00:18:58 ◼   ► The link is in the show notes.

00:18:59 ◼   ► Our thanks to Ecamm for their support of the show.

00:19:02 ◼   ► - All right, folks, it is time for a brand new segment

00:19:09 ◼   ► of our favorite new part of the show, Teach Italian.

00:19:13 ◼   ► - It's a new segment of this segment?

00:19:15 ◼   ► - Well, no, it's a new installment of Teach Italian.

00:19:16 ◼   ► - Ah, ah, wow.

00:19:18 ◼   ► - So first of all, we have some follow-up from Sam saying,

00:19:23 ◼   ► "I just got a point in a pop quiz thanks to Teach Italian.

00:19:25 ◼   ► Keep it up, Federico.

00:19:26 ◼   ► You're changing the world six letters at a time."

00:19:29 ◼   ► I am very glad to hear this, Sam.

00:19:31 ◼   ► I kind of want to know which letter it was.

00:19:35 ◼   ► And also JT asks, "Does the WW at the top

00:19:39 ◼   ► of this year's WWDC artwork constitute an Italian tripla V?"

00:19:44 ◼   ► - Wait, 'cause you got double v, right?

00:19:48 ◼   ► - Triple v.

00:19:49 ◼   ► - So it will be tripla vu, okay?

00:19:51 ◼   ► - Tripla vu. - Yeah, I get it.

00:19:52 ◼   ► - More than a double vu.

00:19:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, yeah.

00:19:55 ◼   ► I mean, we would just say, so I also got a bunch of questions

00:20:00 ◼   ► yesterday from people like,

00:20:01 ◼   ► "How do you pronounce WWDC in Italy?"

00:20:04 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, I actually wanted to make that request to you

00:20:06 ◼   ► today that you could teach us WWDC, 24.

00:20:08 ◼   ► - So I actually don't know, because even when I speak

00:20:12 ◼   ► in Italian, I always say WWDC.

00:20:15 ◼   ► If I were to guess,

00:20:17 ◼   ► double vu, double vu.

00:20:21 ◼   ► I mean, it sounds awful when you actually-

00:20:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, but I want you to say it.

00:20:25 ◼   ► How does it go?

00:20:25 ◼   ► - Double v, double vu, dici.

00:20:27 ◼   ► Something like that?

00:20:29 ◼   ► - Dici is nicer than DC.

00:20:31 ◼   ► - Dici, yeah, it's dici.

00:20:33 ◼   ► - We should just call it, wait, so like,

00:20:36 ◼   ► how do you say W again?

00:20:38 ◼   ► - Double vu.

00:20:39 ◼   ► - So it would be like, "Dop, dop."

00:20:42 ◼   ► - Dop, dop, dop, dop, dici.

00:20:44 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:20:46 ◼   ► All right, so today, today, friends,

00:20:49 ◼   ► we are going to move up the scale of Italian language

00:20:53 ◼   ► and we are starting with the personal pronouns.

00:20:56 ◼   ► So, you know, it's I, you, he, she, they, we, you, they.

00:21:01 ◼   ► We're going to do the Italian versions.

00:21:05 ◼   ► Now, I gotta say that in terms of,

00:21:10 ◼   ► so unfortunately, Italian, like other Latin-based languages,

00:21:15 ◼   ► is a very gender-based language.

00:21:17 ◼   ► - I hate this so much.

00:21:19 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, me too. - So like,

00:21:21 ◼   ► I'm looking at your list here.

00:21:22 ◼   ► This is basically what is Romanian too,

00:21:25 ◼   ► like down to the actual spelling in some of them.

00:21:29 ◼   ► It just frustrates me so much, the gendered languages.

00:21:32 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:21:33 ◼   ► - It's just so unnecessary.

00:21:36 ◼   ► - I know, I know, but,

00:21:37 ◼   ► and I think the modern generation has thankfully

00:21:41 ◼   ► been trying to modernize this

00:21:45 ◼   ► by adding the Italian equivalent of the singular they,

00:21:50 ◼   ► but in, you know, truth be told, in real life,

00:21:54 ◼   ► if you use the singular they,

00:21:57 ◼   ► unfortunately, people look at you in Italy very strange,

00:22:03 ◼   ► especially people from the older generation.

00:22:05 ◼   ► I don't care, personally.

00:22:06 ◼   ► - The issue is, if we care if people are not familiar,

00:22:09 ◼   ► it's like you are gendering objects.

00:22:12 ◼   ► - Yes, yes, we gender everything.

00:22:14 ◼   ► - It's not just people or animals or like living things.

00:22:18 ◼   ► It is actually inanimate objects are gendered,

00:22:21 ◼   ► which is very peculiar to me.

00:22:22 ◼   ► - So we have gendered articles, like the article they,

00:22:27 ◼   ► like if you want to say the apple, right?

00:22:29 ◼   ► The they, there's a gendered version.

00:22:36 ◼   ► For example, apple as a word in Italian,

00:22:39 ◼   ► mela, is a feminine word.

00:22:42 ◼   ► And whereas something like computer,

00:22:45 ◼   ► it's a masculine word.

00:22:48 ◼   ► So like ill computer and lamella, which is insane,

00:22:52 ◼   ► but that's the way it is in this language.

00:22:55 ◼   ► So I have taken some liberty to teach you

00:22:59 ◼   ► the modernized version of personal pronouns.

00:23:02 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

00:23:04 ◼   ► - All right, so I'm gonna read you,

00:23:07 ◼   ► and then we're gonna learn.

00:23:09 ◼   ► Io tu lui lei loro,

00:23:13 ◼   ► noi voi loro.

00:23:17 ◼   ► - Okay. - All right.

00:23:18 ◼   ► - Can I try and guess some?

00:23:20 ◼   ► - Yes. - Can I guess?

00:23:21 ◼   ► - Well, it's in order, so it's pretty easy to guess.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - Well, but not necessarily, like I mean,

00:23:26 ◼   ► but in order of what?

00:23:27 ◼   ► Io is I, tu is you.

00:23:31 ◼   ► I'm assuming, is it lui lei loro is they?

00:23:36 ◼   ► - So it's he, she, they.

00:23:38 ◼   ► - Okay, noi is?

00:23:41 ◼   ► - You all, plural you?

00:23:45 ◼   ► - No.

00:23:46 ◼   ► - 'Cause I know voi would be we, right?

00:23:48 ◼   ► - No, no. - No?

00:23:50 ◼   ► - You have it backwards.

00:23:52 ◼   ► - Okay, noi is we, voi is they?

00:23:54 ◼   ► - No, voi is you, plural you.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - Y'all, it's y'all.

00:23:59 ◼   ► - Y'all, it's y'all, yes.

00:24:01 ◼   ► I don't know what esse and loro would be.

00:24:02 ◼   ► - No, so, okay, so just say loro

00:24:06 ◼   ► as the third plural person.

00:24:09 ◼   ► So the antiquated versions of,

00:24:15 ◼   ► so the third person, right?

00:24:17 ◼   ► He, she, they, or in Italian, lui, lei, loro.

00:24:22 ◼   ► The antiquated form that was taught to me

00:24:24 ◼   ► in elementary school was ele and ela,

00:24:28 ◼   ► which is just incredibly awful to say.

00:24:32 ◼   ► Nobody speaks like this anymore.

00:24:34 ◼   ► And similarly, nobody says instead of loro,

00:24:38 ◼   ► nobody says esse, which is like nobody talks like that.

00:24:44 ◼   ► Nobody talks like that anymore.

00:24:45 ◼   ► So disregard the antiquated form.

00:24:49 ◼   ► And once again, so I, it's io.

00:24:52 ◼   ► You, it's io, yes, perfect.

00:24:54 ◼   ► You, it's tu.

00:24:57 ◼   ► Yeah, the third person, he, she, they, it's lui, lei, loro.

00:25:04 ◼   ► - So in he, she, they, so lui is he, lei is she,

00:25:09 ◼   ► loro is they.

00:25:10 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:25:11 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:25:12 ◼   ► - Steven.

00:25:14 ◼   ► - Lui, lei, loro.

00:25:16 ◼   ► - That's pretty good.

00:25:18 ◼   ► We, it's noi.

00:25:21 ◼   ► - Noi.

00:25:21 ◼   ► - Noi.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:25:23 ◼   ► You plural is voi.

00:25:25 ◼   ► - Voi.

00:25:26 ◼   ► - Voi.

00:25:27 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:25:28 ◼   ► And they is loro.

00:25:31 ◼   ► - Loro.

00:25:32 ◼   ► - Why are we doing that one twice?

00:25:33 ◼   ► - Singular and plural they.

00:25:35 ◼   ► - Yep, it's the singular and plural.

00:25:37 ◼   ► - Oh, but it's the same?

00:25:38 ◼   ► - It's the same, yeah.

00:25:39 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:25:40 ◼   ► - We basically implemented,

00:25:42 ◼   ► we like the modern generation basically stole

00:25:46 ◼   ► the singular they from the English language.

00:25:49 ◼   ► - Okay, okay, okay.

00:25:50 ◼   ► - You know, they, like a bunch of people

00:25:52 ◼   ► tried to come up with another pronoun

00:25:53 ◼   ► and I think it's just more elegant

00:25:55 ◼   ► to copy the English strategy.

00:25:57 ◼   ► - I think, yeah, I mean, especially 'cause

00:25:59 ◼   ► it's probably being influenced by American English,

00:26:04 ◼   ► I think primarily, that it just makes sense to copy it,

00:26:09 ◼   ► the style, right?

00:26:11 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:26:11 ◼   ► - So there you go, these are the personal pronouns

00:26:14 ◼   ► and next week we're gonna go with other variations

00:26:17 ◼   ► of these pronouns and then we'll move up to verbs.

00:26:20 ◼   ► But thank you for following.

00:26:21 ◼   ► - We just give it up on numbers?

00:26:23 ◼   ► - Oh no, we're gonna do the numbers next,

00:26:25 ◼   ► but first I want you to understand, you know, these parts.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:31 ◼   ► - Thank you, professor.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - You're welcome.

00:26:33 ◼   ► - I had a VisionOS guest mode experience

00:26:39 ◼   ► that I wanted to share with you both.

00:26:41 ◼   ► I don't know about you, but this is the first time that I,

00:26:44 ◼   ► so we went to dinner with some friends,

00:26:47 ◼   ► they are two teenage kids and they wanted

00:26:49 ◼   ► to try the Vision Pro, so I said I'd bring it over.

00:26:52 ◼   ► And this is the first time that I have done a VisionOS,

00:26:55 ◼   ► like guest experience for multiple people.

00:26:59 ◼   ► I don't know if either of you have had this experience yet.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Because really, Adina tried it like once or twice

00:27:05 ◼   ► and then that was it, 'cause it stayed at the studio,

00:27:07 ◼   ► so it's, you know, she hasn't really,

00:27:10 ◼   ► I mean, she hasn't really expressed a desire

00:27:12 ◼   ► to really wanna try it anymore, but like it hasn't come up.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And I had like a few things that I just wanted to go over.

00:27:19 ◼   ► I'm sure this is well-trodden ground by now,

00:27:21 ◼   ► but it was my first time of it in this kind of experience,

00:27:25 ◼   ► so I wanted to share it.

00:27:26 ◼   ► The way in which you start guest mode is in control center

00:27:29 ◼   ► and you like, you know, activate guest mode

00:27:31 ◼   ► and you have some settings, which are good,

00:27:32 ◼   ► like how would you like the audio to play?

00:27:34 ◼   ► You can, 'cause you can mirror, right?

00:27:36 ◼   ► So you can choose to mirror to another device.

00:27:39 ◼   ► It would not mirror to an iPad mini.

00:27:41 ◼   ► Don't know why, but just wouldn't.

00:27:45 ◼   ► - That's how they're doing it in the store.

00:27:47 ◼   ► I wonder if they're doing something special there.

00:27:49 ◼   ► - Are they using a mini, not an iPad?

00:27:52 ◼   ► - I thought it was a mini, I could be wrong, but.

00:27:55 ◼   ► - 'Cause I know it will mirror to a regular iPad.

00:27:58 ◼   ► I could not get it to mirror to my iPad mini.

00:28:00 ◼   ► I don't know why.

00:28:01 ◼   ► So I could get it to do a Mac or an Apple TV.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Apple TV, great, by the way,

00:28:07 ◼   ► for a large group guest mode experience, right?

00:28:10 ◼   ► To do it to the TV.

00:28:11 ◼   ► And then you then get the option

00:28:15 ◼   ► of how you want like apps to work.

00:28:19 ◼   ► So you can either say, let people use everything,

00:28:24 ◼   ► or let them use the apps that are currently open,

00:28:28 ◼   ► which is, as a decision,

00:28:30 ◼   ► I don't even know how you get there to that decision.

00:28:37 ◼   ► Like, how is that the choice?

00:28:39 ◼   ► Like, people can use all of the apps

00:28:41 ◼   ► that I currently have open?

00:28:43 ◼   ► Like, what is that as a decision?

00:28:45 ◼   ► Like, why can't it just be everything

00:28:48 ◼   ► or what I choose from a list?

00:28:50 ◼   ► And then just show me a list.

00:28:52 ◼   ► - My only thought there is that maybe you wanna show them

00:28:57 ◼   ► three apps, so you like open them

00:29:00 ◼   ► and then you can hand it over

00:29:01 ◼   ► and they have access just to that.

00:29:02 ◼   ► Like, maybe you wanna walk them through something,

00:29:06 ◼   ► you know, a bit more curated.

00:29:07 ◼   ► I agree that it's weird, but maybe that's the reasoning.

00:29:10 ◼   ► - I mean, you could populate the list

00:29:13 ◼   ► with the apps that are currently open, right?

00:29:15 ◼   ► It's already checked.

00:29:16 ◼   ► Like, because it's like, I'm like,

00:29:20 ◼   ► well, I don't know what they're gonna want.

00:29:21 ◼   ► So I have to open like every possible app

00:29:24 ◼   ► someone might wanna try?

00:29:26 ◼   ► It's super weird to me.

00:29:28 ◼   ► Or even just like all apps except these ones,

00:29:31 ◼   ► 'cause that's really what I care about.

00:29:32 ◼   ► Like, no messages, no mail,

00:29:34 ◼   ► 'cause I just don't need people getting all up in there.

00:29:37 ◼   ► And I'll leave it at that.

00:29:38 ◼   ► Very strange to me that the way that you start that off,

00:29:41 ◼   ► like, sure, the way you describe it,

00:29:43 ◼   ► I can understand a scenario.

00:29:45 ◼   ► But like, that is not a great way to do this in my opinion.

00:29:48 ◼   ► Like in my opinion, 'cause then I'm like opening 20 apps

00:29:52 ◼   ► at first, no, silly.

00:29:53 ◼   ► The fact that video does not work for anyone

00:29:57 ◼   ► when you're mirroring is ridiculous, ridiculous.

00:30:00 ◼   ► Like I understand why for the sake and sanctity

00:30:04 ◼   ► of copyright, you should not allow for mirroring.

00:30:07 ◼   ► But like, why can't the person wearing the Vision Pro

00:30:11 ◼   ► watch the content?

00:30:13 ◼   ► And I just don't see it.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Like I just see a black screen.

00:30:16 ◼   ► That is so bad as a user experience, like terrible.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Even Apple stuff, right?

00:30:22 ◼   ► Like fine, Disney wants to be that way, whatever.

00:30:25 ◼   ► But what about the immersive video that Apple makes?

00:30:27 ◼   ► Like you can't watch that.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Like the person in the Vision Pro can't watch it.

00:30:32 ◼   ► And I do think for this device,

00:30:35 ◼   ► it is helpful to be able to mirror constantly

00:30:38 ◼   ► because sometimes people get a little bit lost

00:30:42 ◼   ► and you wanna help them, right?

00:30:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:30:44 ◼   ► - But seeing people's reactions in general was amazing.

00:30:47 ◼   ► I mean, the crowd pleasers were encounter dinosaurs,

00:30:51 ◼   ► obviously.

00:30:52 ◼   ► - Right.

00:30:53 ◼   ► - The environments in general,

00:30:55 ◼   ► people just liked going from one to the other to the other.

00:30:58 ◼   ► Panoramas as well.

00:30:59 ◼   ► I had my friend like, I was like,

00:31:00 ◼   ► air drop me some of your favorite panoramas.

00:31:03 ◼   ► And then they were just putting on like,

00:31:04 ◼   ► "Oh my God, that's great."

00:31:05 ◼   ► - That's a good idea to give a demo.

00:31:07 ◼   ► I would not have thought about,

00:31:09 ◼   ► send me some of your photo.

00:31:11 ◼   ► That's really smart.

00:31:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, 'cause I figured my panoramas don't mean anything.

00:31:14 ◼   ► You know?

00:31:15 ◼   ► It's just like, "Oh, look, it's a panorama, like great."

00:31:18 ◼   ► And I was struck again by a couple of things.

00:31:22 ◼   ► One, just how delightful people find the experience.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Like it reminds me of how it made me feel, right?

00:31:28 ◼   ► The first time that I got to try it.

00:31:30 ◼   ► Like it really is kind of mind blowing at first

00:31:32 ◼   ► and you can get used to it.

00:31:34 ◼   ► But also just seeing people of mixed interest

00:31:39 ◼   ► in computer usage,

00:31:41 ◼   ► immediately understand the interaction method.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Like looking and pinching.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Like it takes like a minute or two,

00:31:48 ◼   ► especially the eye track,

00:31:50 ◼   ► like the eye tracking set up is like, is great.

00:31:52 ◼   ► 'Cause you do it so many times

00:31:54 ◼   ► that you understand exactly what you need to do

00:31:56 ◼   ► to do the pinching to get it to work.

00:31:59 ◼   ► But how quickly people get to understand eye tracking,

00:32:03 ◼   ► that's like look where you need to go and just tap.

00:32:05 ◼   ► Like people get it very, very quickly in my experience.

00:32:09 ◼   ► So yeah, I think that again, it was like really nice to see

00:32:12 ◼   ► 'cause I left that experience being like,

00:32:14 ◼   ► "Yeah, this is incredible technology."

00:32:18 ◼   ► I mean, we can say what we want for it's like

00:32:21 ◼   ► developer adoption and how many apps there are

00:32:24 ◼   ► and da, da, da, da, da, da.

00:32:25 ◼   ► But like you can naturally assume something like that

00:32:27 ◼   ► can be solved over time.

00:32:28 ◼   ► But the foundational technology and interaction

00:32:31 ◼   ► is really, really, really solid.

00:32:33 ◼   ► And that's like the most important thing to get

00:32:35 ◼   ► in the beginning.

00:32:36 ◼   ► But yeah, guest mode could be a lot better

00:32:38 ◼   ► in a bunch of ways.

00:32:40 ◼   ► But I think the video mirroring

00:32:43 ◼   ► and the way in which you need to start guest mode

00:32:45 ◼   ► could do with some serious improvement in my opinion.

00:32:48 ◼   ► So, but it was cool.

00:32:49 ◼   ► - No, that's awesome.

00:32:52 ◼   ► You said they were teenage kids.

00:32:54 ◼   ► Like did they have experience with other headsets?

00:32:58 ◼   ► Do you know?

00:32:59 ◼   ► Like were they coming in with some experience?

00:33:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, they're very used to the Quest.

00:33:04 ◼   ► And like the initial comment was like,

00:33:06 ◼   ► "Oh my God, this is so much cooler looking than the Quest."

00:33:09 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:10 ◼   ► That was part one.

00:33:11 ◼   ► - It is.

00:33:12 ◼   ► - And then just part two, just like the quality level

00:33:16 ◼   ► is just, there's so far beyond.

00:33:19 ◼   ► Like one of them, like he was also a gamer, right?

00:33:23 ◼   ► Two, he was just like,

00:33:24 ◼   ► "Oh, this is gonna be like so good for games."

00:33:28 ◼   ► I didn't wanna break it to him

00:33:29 ◼   ► that there aren't really any.

00:33:31 ◼   ► But there could be.

00:33:33 ◼   ► And when there are, it could be pretty amazing.

00:33:36 ◼   ► But yeah, like they were very, very impressed by it.

00:33:39 ◼   ► - I just saw a headline that I think Alto's Adventure

00:33:41 ◼   ► is coming to Apple Arcade.

00:33:44 ◼   ► - That was in the Apple Arcade thing,

00:33:46 ◼   ► but that's just Alto's adventure in a window.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Like it's not, you know.

00:33:51 ◼   ► - Lame.

00:33:52 ◼   ► I wanted more.

00:33:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was in that Apple Arcade piece that came out

00:33:57 ◼   ► when we, one of the days that we were hoping for--

00:34:00 ◼   ► - One of the many days.

00:34:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, so every morning,

00:34:04 ◼   ► so we have a group thread with OTJ.

00:34:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:34:06 ◼   ► - And--

00:34:07 ◼   ► - Every morning a blogger wakes up and knows

00:34:09 ◼   ► that they're waiting for an iPad Pro.

00:34:11 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:34:11 ◼   ► And so like the top of the hour

00:34:13 ◼   ► for a couple hours every morning,

00:34:14 ◼   ► I'm like, "Okay, is this it?"

00:34:16 ◼   ► And then it's just like silence and nothing happens.

00:34:19 ◼   ► - And then someone says, "Maybe in an hour."

00:34:20 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:34:21 ◼   ► - We've, this has been us for like a month at this point.

00:34:25 ◼   ► - Maybe in an hour.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Hey, maybe at the top of the hour.

00:34:27 ◼   ► - Maybe in an hour, maybe in an hour, maybe in an hour.

00:34:30 ◼   ► But there was a thing where I came out of an appointment,

00:34:33 ◼   ► I think it was yesterday,

00:34:34 ◼   ► and Federico and John were like making a joke about like,

00:34:37 ◼   ► "Oh, look at this cool new iPad."

00:34:39 ◼   ► And they got me, I thought there was actually an iPad, so.

00:34:42 ◼   ► - Ha ha.

00:34:43 ◼   ► - Oh nice.

00:34:44 ◼   ► - More for me.

00:34:44 ◼   ► - That's mean.

00:34:45 ◼   ► - Well done.

00:34:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, you know, it happens sometimes.

00:34:47 ◼   ► - The boy who cried iPad.

00:34:49 ◼   ► - Yes, exactly.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:34:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm not even buying an iPad

00:34:53 ◼   ► and I want them to come out.

00:34:55 ◼   ► - I do want one.

00:34:58 ◼   ► I do want one.

00:34:59 ◼   ► I want an OLED.

00:34:59 ◼   ► I really want an OLED iPad.

00:35:01 ◼   ► Like I think it would be great.

00:35:02 ◼   ► I do want one, but I'm just not sure

00:35:05 ◼   ► how long it's gonna take.

00:35:06 ◼   ► - I'm telling you, since I switched back to the Mini,

00:35:08 ◼   ► since I took it away from my kid and gave them an iPad Pro,

00:35:11 ◼   ► I just am loving it.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, iPad Mini is awesome.

00:35:15 ◼   ► I mean, what I want is what they won't give me, right?

00:35:17 ◼   ► - OLED iPad Mini.

00:35:19 ◼   ► - OLED iPad Mini, yeah.

00:35:20 ◼   ► That's what I want, but I'm not getting that.

00:35:22 ◼   ► No one's giving me that, but I want it.

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00:37:22 ◼   ► - So according to the latest report by Mark Gurman,

00:37:28 ◼   ► not too many details, but basically Mark hinted

00:37:31 ◼   ► at the fact that in iOS 18, beyond the AI focus,

00:37:35 ◼   ► you know, with this artificial intelligence features

00:37:38 ◼   ► throughout the OS and the fact that Apple has been talking

00:37:41 ◼   ► to a bunch of AI companies to integrate

00:37:43 ◼   ► with their chatbots for generative AI features,

00:37:47 ◼   ► there's also going to be a more customizable home screen.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Now, we just know this.

00:37:52 ◼   ► There was no other detail from Mark about like,

00:37:55 ◼   ► what does it mean to have more customizable home screens?

00:37:58 ◼   ► But I wanted to talk about this because it seems like

00:38:03 ◼   ► this is one of the things that we have been talking about

00:38:05 ◼   ► for many, many years at this point.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Like the fact that the iOS home screen,

00:38:11 ◼   ► compared to what you can get on a variety

00:38:15 ◼   ► of Android devices, is pretty stale.

00:38:18 ◼   ► And, you know, people have been resorting

00:38:21 ◼   ► to all kinds of workarounds on iOS

00:38:25 ◼   ► to have things like blank icons or, you know,

00:38:28 ◼   ► to hide text labels from icons and, you know,

00:38:33 ◼   ► widgets that sort of fake having a transparent background,

00:38:37 ◼   ► like all sorts of hacks that by and large

00:38:40 ◼   ► are just not necessary on Android.

00:38:42 ◼   ► And I wanted to talk to you both about what you think

00:38:46 ◼   ► should be needed on iOS to offer

00:38:48 ◼   ► a more customizable home screen.

00:38:50 ◼   ► And I also want to share some thoughts of my own.

00:38:53 ◼   ► - I think it would be great for them

00:38:55 ◼   ► to adopt some new customization.

00:38:59 ◼   ► I will say I sent this article to Underscore on Sunday,

00:39:04 ◼   ► and he was like, "Well, there goes my summer."

00:39:07 ◼   ► Maybe, maybe not.

00:39:08 ◼   ► I guess we'll see how far they go.

00:39:10 ◼   ► But the home screen does feel stale.

00:39:12 ◼   ► Like there are elements of it.

00:39:14 ◼   ► I think the biggest thing is you gotta start

00:39:16 ◼   ► from the top left corner.

00:39:18 ◼   ► That's been the same since you could go into jiggle mode

00:39:22 ◼   ► for the very first time, like 13 years ago.

00:39:25 ◼   ► I like what they've done with widgets.

00:39:28 ◼   ► I like what they've done in other areas,

00:39:30 ◼   ► but I think they could continue to push it forward.

00:39:33 ◼   ► And I look forward to the iPad getting it in iPadOS 19.

00:39:37 ◼   ► So that's fun too.

00:39:39 ◼   ► - That'd be fun.

00:39:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, the free placement thing is fine.

00:39:43 ◼   ► I think it will be great when we have it.

00:39:46 ◼   ► People will be excited about it.

00:39:48 ◼   ► I don't even know if I feel like I've been,

00:39:51 ◼   ► I don't think I could do it right now.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Like, 'cause I'm just so used to like,

00:39:57 ◼   ► over time I've just minimized my home screens

00:40:00 ◼   ► down to like just the apps, right?

00:40:02 ◼   ► It's always over time been about minimizing

00:40:05 ◼   ► how many home screens I have.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And so now, like my main home screen,

00:40:09 ◼   ► I wouldn't want a gap on it

00:40:10 ◼   ► 'cause I don't have any gaps free.

00:40:13 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:40:13 ◼   ► I still full up, I need everything that's there.

00:40:15 ◼   ► So I don't know how I'll deal with that.

00:40:18 ◼   ► But I know it will be cool.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I know people are really gonna dig it.

00:40:21 ◼   ► So, and it will be nice to have the, a bit of flexibility.

00:40:24 ◼   ► I would like to see them do some interesting stuff

00:40:26 ◼   ► with wallpapers, but I don't know what.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Like I've always liked the idea of,

00:40:31 ◼   ► I feel like this happened at some point

00:40:34 ◼   ► where you could kind of have like live photos on the home

00:40:37 ◼   ► screen and that they would kind of animate a little bit.

00:40:41 ◼   ► - Is this still possible?

00:40:42 ◼   ► - Maybe they brought it back with the new stuff.

00:40:44 ◼   ► - But like nobody does it.

00:40:46 ◼   ► - I know it was on the lock screen.

00:40:47 ◼   ► Was it on the home screen too?

00:40:49 ◼   ► - Do you have to like press and hold?

00:40:51 ◼   ► - It wasn't the lock screen for sure.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Like, and it's a feature that Apple never really improved.

00:40:58 ◼   ► - So what I'm thinking of is like the dynamic wallpapers

00:41:01 ◼   ► that have existed on Android, stuff like that, right?

00:41:03 ◼   ► Like things like that people could make,

00:41:05 ◼   ► like stuff like that, I've always,

00:41:07 ◼   ► could be kind of interesting

00:41:09 ◼   ► just to add a little bit of something.

00:41:11 ◼   ► - Which Apple supports to a degree on the Mac.

00:41:14 ◼   ► Like in Sonoma, you have like all the moving ones

00:41:19 ◼   ► or like the Apple TV screensaver.

00:41:21 ◼   ► I'm not saying that they would go that far,

00:41:23 ◼   ► but having a dynamic wallpaper that would shift color

00:41:27 ◼   ► throughout the day or, you know, like have a landscape

00:41:31 ◼   ► that's daytime and the sun and nighttime,

00:41:34 ◼   ► you know, lit by moonlight, like that sort of stuff

00:41:35 ◼   ► I think would be really interesting.

00:41:37 ◼   ► And they're already doing it elsewhere, which is cool.

00:41:40 ◼   ► - So stuff like that would be kind of cool.

00:41:42 ◼   ► I feel like maybe I've kind of gotten a little bit

00:41:46 ◼   ► over the idea of home screen customer.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Like it's one of those things where like,

00:41:49 ◼   ► if wanted it for so long, like to have more,

00:41:52 ◼   ► and then I got widgets and it's like,

00:41:53 ◼   ► I'm just going to be happy with widgets.

00:41:55 ◼   ► So like maybe my mind is too closed to this now.

00:41:58 ◼   ► Can you open it for me, Federico?

00:41:59 ◼   ► - I don't know, still, I kind of,

00:42:01 ◼   ► so I have many thoughts on this.

00:42:02 ◼   ► I still think, first of all, that those widgets on,

00:42:05 ◼   ► like the interactive widgets are cool,

00:42:07 ◼   ► but they could be so much more.

00:42:09 ◼   ► Like the, and that's the reason I think why

00:42:12 ◼   ► I don't use those interactive widgets that much.

00:42:14 ◼   ► I mean, I don't use the interactivity

00:42:16 ◼   ► on the lock screen at all, but even on the home screen,

00:42:19 ◼   ► the shortcuts that I use, the widget that I use most

00:42:22 ◼   ► is the shortcuts one.

00:42:23 ◼   ► And that's because it's using a private API

00:42:26 ◼   ► that allows the shortcuts widget to present interfaces.

00:42:29 ◼   ► Like I want to have widgets on my iPhone,

00:42:32 ◼   ► on the home screen that let me type a note

00:42:35 ◼   ► and save it from the home screen, right?

00:42:38 ◼   ► And that's only possible with shortcuts right now,

00:42:40 ◼   ► because only shortcuts, and fun fact,

00:42:42 ◼   ► the contacts widget of all things,

00:42:46 ◼   ► they are the only widgets that can show you UI

00:42:52 ◼   ► and accept actual interactions with that UI

00:42:56 ◼   ► on the home screen.

00:42:57 ◼   ► That should be available to all third-party developers.

00:43:00 ◼   ► Like let me have a widget Smith, Steven,

00:43:02 ◼   ► I know that you're involved,

00:43:04 ◼   ► but still don't take this as a feature request.

00:43:07 ◼   ► And also you don't need to comment.

00:43:08 ◼   ► - No, take it as a feature request.

00:43:10 ◼   ► - Take it as a feature request,

00:43:11 ◼   ► but you don't need to comment.

00:43:12 ◼   ► But like, let me have a widget Smith widget

00:43:14 ◼   ► that lets me type out a quick note or a quick reminder

00:43:17 ◼   ► from the home screen without having to launch widget Smith.

00:43:20 ◼   ► So that's one of the things that they should do.

00:43:22 ◼   ► But also people would go absolutely wild

00:43:27 ◼   ► if they could have more control

00:43:29 ◼   ► over their home screen layouts.

00:43:31 ◼   ► Like I still see, it's been what, four years since iOS 14,

00:43:36 ◼   ► I still see much younger people than me.

00:43:40 ◼   ► And that's one of the things I'm thankful for

00:43:42 ◼   ► is that thanks to Sylvia's job,

00:43:44 ◼   ► I get to hang out with people

00:43:45 ◼   ► that are like 15 years younger than me.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And I see that how they're still customizing their phones.

00:43:51 ◼   ► It's wild, the things they do,

00:43:53 ◼   ► the seasonal themes that they install on their phones.

00:43:56 ◼   ► - That would be cool.

00:43:57 ◼   ► - How much care they take

00:43:59 ◼   ► to make their home screens look nice.

00:44:01 ◼   ► And so if Apple gave them actual controls

00:44:05 ◼   ► to place icons anywhere

00:44:07 ◼   ► and to have more controls over the colors

00:44:10 ◼   ► or the text labels of those icons,

00:44:12 ◼   ► they would lose their minds, I think,

00:44:14 ◼   ► and in a really good way.

00:44:16 ◼   ► So that said, I think Apple should absolutely copy

00:44:21 ◼   ► things that we have seen on Android

00:44:23 ◼   ► and do it in a more elegant and consistent Apple way.

00:44:27 ◼   ► That's the way I like to think about it.

00:44:31 ◼   ► For certain features,

00:44:32 ◼   ► Android sort of explores the territory

00:44:35 ◼   ► and Apple builds on it, like refines the idea.

00:44:40 ◼   ► So place icons anywhere,

00:44:42 ◼   ► and maybe there could be a nice way to do that.

00:44:44 ◼   ► Grab multiple icons, drag them around in a new system

00:44:48 ◼   ► that's better than the one that we've had so far.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Like we've all been there before, right?

00:44:53 ◼   ► You try to place an icon on your iPhone's home screen

00:44:56 ◼   ► and then the next icon moves.

00:44:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's the worst.

00:45:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:01 ◼   ► - You're like wasting five minutes of your life.

00:45:03 ◼   ► - Trying to move widgets around.

00:45:06 ◼   ► - Trying to move widgets around.

00:45:07 ◼   ► - And then it's going backwards, forwards,

00:45:08 ◼   ► backwards, forwards.

00:45:09 ◼   ► - You know, that system is bad and has always been bad.

00:45:13 ◼   ► But also like, I don't know, I kind of like the idea of,

00:45:17 ◼   ► and this is something that exists on macOS.

00:45:20 ◼   ► Let me define a system-wide accent color.

00:45:24 ◼   ► This is something that Android has,

00:45:26 ◼   ► this is something that macOS has.

00:45:29 ◼   ► And so thinking about it in an iOS kind of way,

00:45:33 ◼   ► let me define an accent color

00:45:36 ◼   ► and maybe there will be a way for developers

00:45:38 ◼   ► to provide icons for their apps

00:45:41 ◼   ► that automatically conform to the accent color.

00:45:45 ◼   ► - Very cool, right, theming.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Theming, right?

00:45:47 ◼   ► Theming the entire operating system, essentially.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - But in an API-based way that we know

00:45:52 ◼   ► that Apple loves doing,

00:45:53 ◼   ► because they have the ecosystem to do it.

00:45:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, and then the EU could tell them

00:45:57 ◼   ► that everyone else has to do it too.

00:45:59 ◼   ► - See what the Department of Justice has to say about that.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:46:02 ◼   ► You picked the wrong colors.

00:46:04 ◼   ► Try again.

00:46:06 ◼   ► - This is something that I also mentioned

00:46:08 ◼   ► on the next episode of App Stories for next week.

00:46:12 ◼   ► And maybe this is a topic

00:46:13 ◼   ► that we should revisit for the future.

00:46:14 ◼   ► The more Apple gets regulated,

00:46:17 ◼   ► the more I think they should really think

00:46:19 ◼   ► about becoming an API-driven company,

00:46:22 ◼   ► in the sense that the best way to not get regulated

00:46:25 ◼   ► is to open up any feature you do

00:46:27 ◼   ► to third-party developers with an API.

00:46:29 ◼   ► - I think they've been moving in that direction.

00:46:31 ◼   ► - They have.

00:46:32 ◼   ► There have been signs, right?

00:46:34 ◼   ► Journal, for example, comes to mind.

00:46:36 ◼   ► So yeah, icon placement.

00:46:41 ◼   ► Let me choose to have a denser grid.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Like, let me put more icons in the place where--

00:46:47 ◼   ► - That I would like, yes.

00:46:49 ◼   ► - In the dock on my iPhone.

00:46:51 ◼   ► Let me put six icons instead of four.

00:46:53 ◼   ► At this point, I still feel like part of Apple's design theme

00:46:59 ◼   ► is still stuck on this idea of the purity

00:47:01 ◼   ► that Johnny Ive once conceived.

00:47:03 ◼   ► And while that's okay to keep as a default,

00:47:07 ◼   ► I think we are now maybe,

00:47:09 ◼   ► and especially the new generations,

00:47:13 ◼   ► we're maybe now past the time of the designer

00:47:17 ◼   ► coming down from the mountain,

00:47:18 ◼   ► holding the one true design

00:47:20 ◼   ► that should be followed at all times.

00:47:22 ◼   ► You know?

00:47:25 ◼   ► - I don't think I need so much space

00:47:26 ◼   ► between my app icons anymore.

00:47:28 ◼   ► Because they're, like it's not even a tap target thing,

00:47:31 ◼   ► because I'm able to interact with buttons

00:47:34 ◼   ► inside of widgets very easily.

00:47:36 ◼   ► So, and they're way smaller than an app icon.

00:47:39 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:47:40 ◼   ► - I think I could easily increase that.

00:47:43 ◼   ► Then I would be able to do a bit of free placement then,

00:47:45 ◼   ► 'cause then I would actually have some space that's free.

00:47:47 ◼   ► So that'd be nice.

00:47:48 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:49 ◼   ► And yeah, and then we wallpapers.

00:47:53 ◼   ► Do you guys remember the rumor from a few years ago

00:47:55 ◼   ► that Apple was gonna do official wallpaper apps

00:47:58 ◼   ► with like a wallpaper API,

00:48:01 ◼   ► and you would find all compatible wallpaper packs

00:48:05 ◼   ► in settings or something?

00:48:06 ◼   ► I still think it's a good idea.

00:48:08 ◼   ► And I still think it's something that should be standardized

00:48:12 ◼   ► by Apple.

00:48:13 ◼   ► There's all kinds of, some of them good,

00:48:16 ◼   ► some of them shady, wallpaper apps on the App Store.

00:48:20 ◼   ► There's a lot of them.

00:48:21 ◼   ► - I mean, who's gonna need it though,

00:48:23 ◼   ► when you can just ask Siri to make you a wallpaper?

00:48:26 ◼   ► - Sure, sure.

00:48:28 ◼   ► But hey, this is where you get the feedback from people.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Oh, my God, why do you hate artists and creators

00:48:34 ◼   ► who sell wallpapers?

00:48:35 ◼   ► And we don't need to get into that.

00:48:37 ◼   ► I know that you don't.

00:48:38 ◼   ► So I had a funny thing yesterday.

00:48:39 ◼   ► This is just like a,

00:48:40 ◼   ► so it was like there was a piece of artwork

00:48:42 ◼   ► that I wanted to make.

00:48:44 ◼   ► It was like a variation of a podcast logo.

00:48:47 ◼   ► And it was very simple.

00:48:49 ◼   ► Well, I knew exactly what I wanted.

00:48:51 ◼   ► And I thought to myself, it's just changing some colors

00:48:54 ◼   ► and adding in some texture as a background.

00:48:57 ◼   ► So I was like, let me try

00:48:59 ◼   ► to use Adobe's generative fill stuff, right?

00:49:03 ◼   ► So I'm like, make this look like this

00:49:05 ◼   ► and give me a background that looks like this, right?

00:49:07 ◼   ► So I was like, let me just go do that.

00:49:09 ◼   ► I did it, it looked terrible.

00:49:10 ◼   ► (both laughing)

00:49:11 ◼   ► And I was struck by the fact of like,

00:49:13 ◼   ► you can give me all of the tools in the world,

00:49:17 ◼   ► but I still can't do it.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Like just because I now have the tools

00:49:20 ◼   ► to create exactly what I want,

00:49:22 ◼   ► it still doesn't look like it.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Like it still takes the eye of someone who has

00:49:28 ◼   ► and the talent, right?

00:49:29 ◼   ► Like you need both.

00:49:30 ◼   ► And it was just really funny where it's like,

00:49:32 ◼   ► oh, I want this to be gold and this to look like leather.

00:49:36 ◼   ► And I did it and I got both of those things.

00:49:39 ◼   ► Like it still doesn't look right.

00:49:40 ◼   ► So I've reached a designer instead of like, you know.

00:49:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, so anyway, I'm related to this.

00:49:50 ◼   ► So I think these are some of the ideas

00:49:52 ◼   ► that I think Apple should implement for more customization.

00:49:55 ◼   ► I do have one request for you guys

00:49:58 ◼   ► and maybe for the audience.

00:50:00 ◼   ► This is, I was thinking about this

00:50:02 ◼   ► when thinking about wallpapers.

00:50:04 ◼   ► One of the problems that I have is that,

00:50:05 ◼   ► so I buy, I purchase a ton of wallpapers

00:50:09 ◼   ► from people on Gumroad.

00:50:11 ◼   ► This is something that I do.

00:50:13 ◼   ► - You're just like keeping that entire industry in business.

00:50:15 ◼   ► - There's a ton of stuff over there.

00:50:17 ◼   ► It's real. - I know there's a ton of stuff.

00:50:18 ◼   ► - It's wild.

00:50:19 ◼   ► - There's two places I spend money on the internet these days.

00:50:23 ◼   ► Etsy for Vision Pro accessories.

00:50:25 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:26 ◼   ► I have a wild story coming out soon, I hope tomorrow.

00:50:30 ◼   ► - Oh, I know. - I need to take pictures.

00:50:33 ◼   ► I spend money on Etsy and on Gumroad for wallpapers.

00:50:36 ◼   ► Anyway, I have all these wallpapers,

00:50:38 ◼   ► like folders with images.

00:50:40 ◼   ► How do people keep them organized

00:50:42 ◼   ► and in sync between devices?

00:50:44 ◼   ► I don't wanna save them to the Photos app

00:50:46 ◼   ► in my photo library.

00:50:48 ◼   ► - See, that's what I do.

00:50:49 ◼   ► I have a album called "Wallpapers"

00:50:51 ◼   ► and there's like 3,000 things in there.

00:50:53 ◼   ► - I would do it.

00:50:55 ◼   ► And if you don't want them to show up,

00:50:56 ◼   ► you could like set their date

00:50:57 ◼   ► to all be like 10 years ago or something.

00:50:59 ◼   ► And then they're just gonna be at the top of your library.

00:51:01 ◼   ► - I am sure that there's somewhere out there,

00:51:03 ◼   ► there's a wallpaper organizer app that somebody made

00:51:08 ◼   ► and 100 people use it around the world and they love it.

00:51:11 ◼   ► And I wanna be one of those 100 people.

00:51:14 ◼   ► So if this exists, please let me know.

00:51:17 ◼   ► And yeah, we'll see.

00:51:19 ◼   ► iOS 18, biggest updated in history

00:51:21 ◼   ► because it lets you drag icons around.

00:51:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:26 ◼   ► - Just be like, "Hey iPhone, arrange my home screen."

00:51:29 ◼   ► That's what's gonna happen.

00:51:30 ◼   ► You know, it's good to do it for you.

00:51:32 ◼   ► - The only thing I would add to the list

00:51:35 ◼   ► is I would like an option to have the app library

00:51:39 ◼   ► automatically sort alphabetically.

00:51:41 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:51:42 ◼   ► - So you want the view that you get

00:51:44 ◼   ► when you start the search to just be the app library view?

00:51:47 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:51:48 ◼   ► - So this is another piece of feedback that Silvia had.

00:51:51 ◼   ► So she saw the app library in the iPad dock

00:51:54 ◼   ► and she's like, "What's this? It's new."

00:51:56 ◼   ► And so they're all, "This is a new feature

00:51:58 ◼   ► "compared to the last time you tried this.

00:51:59 ◼   ► "It's called the app library, does such and such."

00:52:01 ◼   ► It's like, "I love it.

00:52:02 ◼   ► "So how can I customize the categories?"

00:52:05 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Ah, there we go."

00:52:08 ◼   ► - I love the app library.

00:52:09 ◼   ► I am like an app library absolutist.

00:52:12 ◼   ► I don't want it to change at all.

00:52:13 ◼   ► - Literally within five seconds, she asked me,

00:52:16 ◼   ► "So can I make my own categories?"

00:52:18 ◼   ► I was like, "Who needs it?"

00:52:20 ◼   ► - Give it options.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Just let us change it if we want to.

00:52:24 ◼   ► 'Cause I think a lot of people do like the way it works.

00:52:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, me.

00:52:29 ◼   ► - What I have found is like of a lot of things,

00:52:30 ◼   ► if you just use it, it does get better.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Like you know how when you start a spotlight search

00:52:36 ◼   ► and a lot of the time the app that you want

00:52:38 ◼   ► is the app that's there, right?

00:52:39 ◼   ► Do you have that happen to you?

00:52:40 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:52:42 ◼   ► - Right, Federico, do you have that happen to you?

00:52:44 ◼   ► Like you pull down to start a spotlight,

00:52:45 ◼   ► no, just from the home screen,

00:52:47 ◼   ► you start a spotlight search

00:52:48 ◼   ► and the app that you want is there, right?

00:52:51 ◼   ► App library is like that for me.

00:52:53 ◼   ► Like if I go to the app library,

00:52:55 ◼   ► most of the time the app that I want

00:52:57 ◼   ► is like one of the top ones

00:52:58 ◼   ► because they're the apps that I'm picking a lot.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Like the system is learning,

00:53:02 ◼   ► but you kind of just have to give into it.

00:53:04 ◼   ► But I understand not a lot of people want to,

00:53:06 ◼   ► but I do, I give into the app library.

00:53:09 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Well, there you go.

00:53:12 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:53:13 ◼   ► We'll see, the biggest update ever.

00:53:16 ◼   ► - Biggest update ever.

00:53:18 ◼   ► - Which was absolutely incredible.

00:53:19 ◼   ► - What a statement.

00:53:20 ◼   ► - Well, it's only a statement Mark Gurman's made so far.

00:53:24 ◼   ► - Do we think they're gonna,

00:53:26 ◼   ► do we think as the weeks go by

00:53:28 ◼   ► and as we approach the WWC,

00:53:30 ◼   ► are they gonna lean into the AI puns?

00:53:34 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, they already have.

00:53:36 ◼   ► - Well, are there gonna be more?

00:53:38 ◼   ► - How many statements would you imagine they will be given?

00:53:41 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:53:41 ◼   ► Like the places in which they would do it.

00:53:43 ◼   ► I feel like- - Oh, it's gonna be,

00:53:44 ◼   ► I don't know, it's gonna be astoundingly interesting.

00:53:49 ◼   ► - I mean, the next opportunity

00:53:52 ◼   ► will probably be the press invitations.

00:53:55 ◼   ► - Right, yes.

00:53:56 ◼   ► - Which will probably have something.

00:53:58 ◼   ► - Amazingly intriguing.

00:54:02 ◼   ► We should move on.

00:54:07 ◼   ► - We should move on.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - We should move on.

00:54:10 ◼   ► - Threads is joining the metaverse.

00:54:13 ◼   ► So this has been- - The metaverse?

00:54:15 ◼   ► - Fetaverse.

00:54:16 ◼   ► - Fetaverse.

00:54:17 ◼   ► - Spiderverse.

00:54:18 ◼   ► - Spiderverse.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - Joining the Spiderverse.

00:54:21 ◼   ► - Mark Zuckerberg is in the Spiderverse.

00:54:23 ◼   ► He's gonna be in the next movie.

00:54:25 ◼   ► - And he's ripped.

00:54:27 ◼   ► - You know what?

00:54:28 ◼   ► I actually believe he could be Spider-Man

00:54:30 ◼   ► if he wanted to be.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Anyway, Threads is joining the Fetaverse.

00:54:35 ◼   ► This was something that they said would happen.

00:54:38 ◼   ► Lots of people believed wouldn't happen, but it's happening.

00:54:41 ◼   ► And they've started, it feels like they're rolling it out.

00:54:45 ◼   ► I think it's just like Canada, Japan, and the US right now

00:54:49 ◼   ► that users can turn on a toggle

00:54:52 ◼   ► to have their Threads post be federated.

00:54:56 ◼   ► So people on Mastodon can find your account.

00:55:00 ◼   ► They can see your posts.

00:55:01 ◼   ► They can react and follow them and like them and stuff.

00:55:05 ◼   ► Meta is indicating that this is a growing thing.

00:55:12 ◼   ► So my hope would be that in the future,

00:55:15 ◼   ► they would just work, right?

00:55:16 ◼   ► That you'll get all of the posts

00:55:18 ◼   ► and you'll be able to reply

00:55:20 ◼   ► and people will see it on Mastodon

00:55:21 ◼   ► and it'll be fully integrated.

00:55:24 ◼   ► So essentially it would feel like people using Threads,

00:55:29 ◼   ► it was like they were just on Mastodon.

00:55:32 ◼   ► So it seems like it's happening, more is coming.

00:55:35 ◼   ► I wanted to know kind of,

00:55:37 ◼   ► well, I think only Steven can enable it,

00:55:40 ◼   ► but so really have you and also Federico

00:55:44 ◼   ► and I will answer too,

00:55:45 ◼   ► would you enable your Threads accounts to be viewable?

00:55:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would enable it.

00:55:49 ◼   ► I would enable it. - You would?

00:55:50 ◼   ► - I think, yeah.

00:55:51 ◼   ► - You have or you would?

00:55:53 ◼   ► - I would because I can't right now.

00:55:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I thought you said you had.

00:55:56 ◼   ► But Steven, have you done it?

00:55:58 ◼   ► - I did.

00:55:59 ◼   ► The first day it just kept giving me an error,

00:56:01 ◼   ► but they got that straightened out.

00:56:03 ◼   ► And so ismh86@threads.net can be seen from Mastodon

00:56:08 ◼   ► if you're on an instance

00:56:11 ◼   ► that hasn't blocked Threads for some reason.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I've had a little bit of an issue

00:56:16 ◼   ► where I can see it from a mastodon.social account

00:56:20 ◼   ► that I have that I don't use,

00:56:21 ◼   ► but it's kind of a placeholder,

00:56:22 ◼   ► but I can't see it from my actual one,

00:56:25 ◼   ► even though I follow other Threads users

00:56:28 ◼   ► from eWorld.social.

00:56:30 ◼   ► The whole thing feels like we've added DNS to social media

00:56:34 ◼   ► in a way that I don't particularly care for.

00:56:36 ◼   ► But I did turn it on because I figure

00:56:39 ◼   ► if people are on Mastodon,

00:56:42 ◼   ► because like in our audience, they wanna use Ivory

00:56:45 ◼   ► and they wanna see what I'm doing on Threads,

00:56:47 ◼   ► then why not turn it on?

00:56:49 ◼   ► It was very simple.

00:56:50 ◼   ► I would like to know why I can't follow it from eWorld,

00:56:54 ◼   ► but maybe that just takes time

00:56:57 ◼   ► 'cause the server's got two users on it,

00:56:58 ◼   ► so it just takes time.

00:57:00 ◼   ► But it is a step in the right direction, I think.

00:57:04 ◼   ► And there are some limitations,

00:57:06 ◼   ► like if someone on Mastodon or elsewhere in the Fediverse

00:57:10 ◼   ► likes your thing, all you see in Threads

00:57:13 ◼   ► is a Fediverse user liked your thing.

00:57:16 ◼   ► So it is early days of this.

00:57:20 ◼   ► But yeah, I figured why not turn it on?

00:57:22 ◼   ► Why not have that content be percolating elsewhere?

00:57:25 ◼   ► I just found you.

00:57:26 ◼   ► I didn't think to look,

00:57:28 ◼   ► but there you go, I found you and followed you,

00:57:30 ◼   ► so my little server can find you again.

00:57:33 ◼   ► And Zach says he can't see it from there,

00:57:36 ◼   ► so I don't know what's going on.

00:57:37 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:57:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and I guess eventually,

00:57:41 ◼   ► maybe it'll go the other way too.

00:57:42 ◼   ► This is just Threads content going out to the Fediverse.

00:57:45 ◼   ► But again, this is step one of 150, I think.

00:57:48 ◼   ► So I guess, well, you did it in Federico.

00:57:53 ◼   ► You said you would do it, but why?

00:57:55 ◼   ► Like what would be your thinking?

00:57:58 ◼   ► I think there's people,

00:58:00 ◼   ► so I've been posting different content

00:58:02 ◼   ► between Mastodon and Threads.

00:58:04 ◼   ► Same.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And I think there's people

00:58:07 ◼   ► who don't wanna install Threads

00:58:09 ◼   ► that will still be interested

00:58:11 ◼   ► in seeing what I post on Threads.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And so the Federation would allow them to follow me

00:58:16 ◼   ► without having to use Threads.

00:58:17 ◼   ► So it's just an option.

00:58:21 ◼   ► But you would imagine that if you did this,

00:58:23 ◼   ► you would still be managing and maintaining both accounts?

00:58:26 ◼   ► Well, that's the world we're living in, right?

00:58:29 ◼   ► For now.

00:58:29 ◼   ► I mean, that's the other question.

00:58:31 ◼   ► But this is the exact world

00:58:33 ◼   ► that would mean you wouldn't have to.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:36 ◼   ► Right?

00:58:37 ◼   ► Well, so here's the thing.

00:58:38 ◼   ► I don't think I'm realistically ever going to give up

00:58:43 ◼   ► my personally owned Mastodon instance with my domain.

00:58:48 ◼   ► And especially looking ahead

00:58:53 ◼   ► at the things we're gonna do with Max Stories and ActivityPub,

00:58:56 ◼   ► I am not gonna just say, "Hey, buy Mastodon account.

00:59:00 ◼   ► I'm just gonna be on Thread."

00:59:01 ◼   ► Right, okay.

00:59:02 ◼   ► So that's why.

00:59:04 ◼   ► That makes sense.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I understand that.

00:59:06 ◼   ► I think I'm leaning that I might,

00:59:10 ◼   ► like I might just go all Threads.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Like I think I might just do that.

00:59:15 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:59:16 ◼   ► I don't really enjoy managing my,

00:59:19 ◼   ► as time has gone on, like the value of it, I understand.

00:59:22 ◼   ► And like a lot of the reasons

00:59:23 ◼   ► that I wanted to have my own instance,

00:59:26 ◼   ► like I've born out to be accurate.

00:59:28 ◼   ► Like I like the idea of having something that's mine.

00:59:32 ◼   ► Like I do like that.

00:59:34 ◼   ► But ultimately the realistic upside kind of is zero for me.

00:59:42 ◼   ► It's just more idealistic upside.

00:59:45 ◼   ► And I don't know if the idealistic upside

00:59:49 ◼   ► is worth the overhead, both financially,

00:59:53 ◼   ► which is not a lot of money,

00:59:54 ◼   ► but like do I need to pay for this?

00:59:57 ◼   ► And also the like,

00:59:59 ◼   ► sometimes I get emails from Mastodos

01:00:02 ◼   ► and I'm like, "Do I need to do anything?"

01:00:03 ◼   ► And I'm logging into admin panels and all kinds of,

01:00:06 ◼   ► it's just like, "I don't wanna be dealing with this."

01:00:09 ◼   ► And so I think for me,

01:00:12 ◼   ► I would lean towards probably going just to threads

01:00:17 ◼   ► and like, because I just think for me, for me personally,

01:00:21 ◼   ► and for what I am using social media for,

01:00:24 ◼   ► I think threads makes the most sense.

01:00:26 ◼   ► And so I think that that might be where,

01:00:28 ◼   ► what I end up doing.

01:00:29 ◼   ► And it would just be made so much easier by the fact of like,

01:00:33 ◼   ► if you don't wanna be on threads

01:00:34 ◼   ► or you wanna use Mastodon, great.

01:00:37 ◼   ► Like that's the whole point.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Now you can follow me on my threads account,

01:00:40 ◼   ► put this Mastodon and everyone's happy.

01:00:43 ◼   ► So I'm not, that's kind of where I think I'm leaning,

01:00:47 ◼   ► but I'll have to wait and see kind of like how it rolls out.

01:00:50 ◼   ► Like I don't expect to make any kind of change

01:00:52 ◼   ► for a long time,

01:00:53 ◼   ► but I think my gut right now tells me

01:00:56 ◼   ► that that's probably where I'll end up going.

01:00:59 ◼   ► 'Cause like I'm posting different content

01:01:02 ◼   ► on different services,

01:01:03 ◼   ► but just because I can't be bothered

01:01:04 ◼   ► to post the same thing on two places,

01:01:06 ◼   ► like it's all just me.

01:01:07 ◼   ► - And that's wrong.

01:01:08 ◼   ► You don't wanna cross post.

01:01:10 ◼   ► - Well, you do it.

01:01:11 ◼   ► So like-

01:01:12 ◼   ► - Only in self promotion,

01:01:13 ◼   ► which we all agreed was a fine carve out.

01:01:15 ◼   ► - Nobody agreed, just you.

01:01:17 ◼   ► You created the rule that it was bad

01:01:19 ◼   ► and then the rule carve out that allowed you to do it

01:01:22 ◼   ► without people sending you posts all the time.

01:01:25 ◼   ► I kind of don't care about people cross posting,

01:01:28 ◼   ► but I just can't be bothered to cross post.

01:01:31 ◼   ► - I feel like what Zach just said in Discord

01:01:34 ◼   ► is also my approach to this.

01:01:36 ◼   ► Like Zach brought threads for my current events,

01:01:39 ◼   ► vague posts and Mastodon is for my computer posts.

01:01:42 ◼   ► That is exactly how I've been largely using threads.

01:01:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've been doing that too,

01:01:47 ◼   ► but I also don't feel like I'm fine

01:01:51 ◼   ► putting it all in one place.

01:01:52 ◼   ► I'm just not.

01:01:53 ◼   ► - I posted about the fact that I was gonna play Skyrim

01:01:57 ◼   ► in 2024 on threads.

01:02:00 ◼   ► And first of all, that silly post absolutely took off

01:02:05 ◼   ► and I got so many useful replies.

01:02:08 ◼   ► Like actually fun and kind and useful replies

01:02:13 ◼   ► with suggestions.

01:02:14 ◼   ► If I did that on Mastodon,

01:02:16 ◼   ► I would have gotten a bunch of reply guys telling me

01:02:19 ◼   ► there's a much better RPG that you should play

01:02:21 ◼   ► or what device are you playing these on a Steam deck

01:02:26 ◼   ► or into a Shindo yourself.

01:02:27 ◼   ► It's a very different audience.

01:02:30 ◼   ► And so the computer stuff goes on Mastodon,

01:02:33 ◼   ► which is great for, I mean, let's face it,

01:02:36 ◼   ► it's very tech lean.

01:02:39 ◼   ► It's a very tech lean audience.

01:02:41 ◼   ► And the more mainstream, you know, fun,

01:02:45 ◼   ► it's about sort of life and events stuff goes on threads.

01:02:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, you see what you said there

01:02:52 ◼   ► about like loads of people see it.

01:02:54 ◼   ► Like that's part of my thinking,

01:02:56 ◼   ► which is the threads algorithm has the ability

01:02:59 ◼   ► to surface the content that I want people to see

01:03:02 ◼   ► to the people that might see it.

01:03:03 ◼   ► Mastodon does not have that, right?

01:03:06 ◼   ► And again, if I'm thinking about

01:03:09 ◼   ► what am I putting on social media,

01:03:11 ◼   ► 90% of what I'm putting on social media

01:03:14 ◼   ► is stuff I want people to see from my career.

01:03:18 ◼   ► I am not, I got out of the habit,

01:03:21 ◼   ► Twitter beat out of me the idea of sending vague posts

01:03:26 ◼   ► or sending quick things.

01:03:29 ◼   ► I so seldom post anything inconsequential.

01:03:34 ◼   ► It is incredibly rare.

01:03:36 ◼   ► - Like what is your threshold for inconsequential?

01:03:39 ◼   ► - It has to be something that I genuinely feel like-

01:03:42 ◼   ► - Like my Skyrim post would have been inconsequential.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Like, hey, I'm playing this cool video game.

01:03:48 ◼   ► - I'm not sure if I would have posted that.

01:03:50 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

01:03:51 ◼   ► - Because I can't be bothered with the replies, right?

01:03:56 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

01:03:58 ◼   ► - It has to be the most, if I'm gonna post a joke,

01:04:01 ◼   ► it has to be completely innocuous now

01:04:04 ◼   ► as far as I can imagine it, right?

01:04:07 ◼   ► Like this is what Twitter just did to me, right?

01:04:10 ◼   ► I feel like I'm ever gonna, it's just a simple rubric.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Am I willing to give up, this is what I said before,

01:04:15 ◼   ► but am I willing to give up the rest of my day to this post?

01:04:19 ◼   ► That's what I asked myself this question.

01:04:22 ◼   ► And 99% of the time, what it means is

01:04:25 ◼   ► I close the compose window.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:04:29 ◼   ► - And so like for me, if I'm gonna post anything now,

01:04:33 ◼   ► it's by and large, like pretty much work stuff

01:04:37 ◼   ► or things that are related to work.

01:04:38 ◼   ► And so then threads works

01:04:40 ◼   ► because they surface that content to people.

01:04:45 ◼   ► And I like threads more now for me

01:04:48 ◼   ► as a content like mechanism,

01:04:51 ◼   ► 'cause the algorithm's very good at knowing what I like.

01:04:55 ◼   ► It knows exactly what I wanna see and I see it.

01:04:57 ◼   ► And when I love now where if you see something

01:04:59 ◼   ► you don't like, you just swipe it right, it hides it.

01:05:02 ◼   ► And the algorithm learns from it.

01:05:04 ◼   ► And so then I don't see content about that anymore.

01:05:07 ◼   ► And like the fact that the Instagram

01:05:09 ◼   ► and threads algorithms are tied together

01:05:13 ◼   ► means that I see stuff which is like related

01:05:15 ◼   ► to the stuff that I follow on Instagram,

01:05:17 ◼   ► which is like tends to be simpler things.

01:05:19 ◼   ► So like it's like a lot of Formula One stuff or whatever.

01:05:21 ◼   ► So I get a lot of Formula One things on my threads,

01:05:24 ◼   ► which is great.

01:05:25 ◼   ► And it's also accounts I don't need to follow.

01:05:27 ◼   ► So I don't need to get that stuff all the time.

01:05:29 ◼   ► So when does that get a big event going on?

01:05:31 ◼   ► I'm getting the information about it.

01:05:33 ◼   ► I find it to be quite a good mechanism.

01:05:35 ◼   ► I find the experience of using threads

01:05:38 ◼   ► to be far superior to my experience of using Twitter.

01:05:41 ◼   ► So like a service that it is more like

01:05:43 ◼   ► because of the algorithm.

01:05:45 ◼   ► And then I use Mastodon and Mastodon

01:05:49 ◼   ► is mostly my computer nerd friends,

01:05:50 ◼   ► but I would be totally happy to have that content

01:05:53 ◼   ► show up in my threads account instead

01:05:57 ◼   ► and just have one to deal with.

01:05:58 ◼   ► I don't really wanna personally,

01:06:00 ◼   ► I don't see much of a benefit to continuing to deal with

01:06:04 ◼   ► like two very similar social networks.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Like it's just not necessarily what I wanna be doing.

01:06:11 ◼   ► So that's kind of where I'm leaning.

01:06:13 ◼   ► I just wanted to get a check in from you both.

01:06:14 ◼   ► It both to me,

01:06:15 ◼   ► it seems like you would probably both continue doing both,

01:06:19 ◼   ► but have your threads account there just because why not?

01:06:22 ◼   ► Like in the Fed of Earth?

01:06:24 ◼   ► - I think so.

01:06:24 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

01:06:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah. - I think so.

01:06:27 ◼   ► - Okay.

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01:08:22 ◼   ► - The one true Jonathan.

01:08:26 ◼   ► The one true Jonathan.

01:08:28 ◼   ► Yeah, so I had a blog post out this week

01:08:31 ◼   ► looking at this concept that was kicking around Apple

01:08:36 ◼   ► about a year after the Macintosh went on sale.

01:08:40 ◼   ► And it's important to remember

01:08:41 ◼   ► that back in the '80s in particular,

01:08:43 ◼   ► like it wasn't a given there'd be another Macintosh

01:08:47 ◼   ► 'cause they went like Apple II, Apple III, Lisa, Mac.

01:08:51 ◼   ► Like those all overlapped a little bit,

01:08:53 ◼   ► but companies didn't necessarily stick with a platform

01:08:57 ◼   ► and improve it.

01:08:58 ◼   ► They were like build a whole new computer every time.

01:09:00 ◼   ► Just not the way things work today,

01:09:03 ◼   ► but it's how things worked in the early days.

01:09:05 ◼   ► And the Jonathan was a concept floating about that time

01:09:10 ◼   ► that was really designed to be as customizable as possible.

01:09:15 ◼   ► So sort of in a nutshell, the Jonathan had like a backbone

01:09:22 ◼   ► and then you slid in these modules.

01:09:25 ◼   ► So you'd have like your power supply module,

01:09:28 ◼   ► your floppy disk module.

01:09:29 ◼   ► You'd have one that had like the compute

01:09:31 ◼   ► for like your Mac system.

01:09:33 ◼   ► But then maybe you could also get a compute one

01:09:36 ◼   ► that brought DOS to your system

01:09:38 ◼   ► or audio interface to your system.

01:09:41 ◼   ► And it would look if once it was all built out

01:09:44 ◼   ► like a bookcase with all these modules plugged in

01:09:47 ◼   ► and then a CRT on top of it.

01:09:50 ◼   ► You could see a picture at the chapter art right now.

01:09:53 ◼   ► The way this could look, I should say the renders

01:09:57 ◼   ► in the article are done by NanoRaptor.

01:10:00 ◼   ► If you don't follow Dana's work on social media,

01:10:03 ◼   ► you totally should.

01:10:04 ◼   ► 'Cause there are very few photos of this thing

01:10:06 ◼   ► out in the world, very little information.

01:10:08 ◼   ► So it was fun to dive into it

01:10:09 ◼   ► and hopefully open people's eyes

01:10:11 ◼   ► to what this thing could have been.

01:10:13 ◼   ► - I have two questions for you that we need to address

01:10:16 ◼   ► before we continue.

01:10:17 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:10:18 ◼   ► - One, why is it called the Jonathan?

01:10:21 ◼   ► Which is a really, really stupid name for a computer.

01:10:23 ◼   ► - It is.

01:10:24 ◼   ► - Especially the the in it.

01:10:26 ◼   ► And two, how did you find the Jonathan?

01:10:31 ◼   ► - The engineer at Apple who was championing this idea

01:10:36 ◼   ► was named Jonathan Fitch.

01:10:39 ◼   ► And he was so happy with it, he named it after himself.

01:10:42 ◼   ► - Interesting.

01:10:44 ◼   ► So the guy who created the Mac was called Mac Fitch?

01:10:47 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:10:49 ◼   ► - But like there is already precedent, right?

01:10:52 ◼   ► At this point, why didn't he just call it Jonathan?

01:10:55 ◼   ► - Jonathan is also a type of Apple.

01:10:57 ◼   ► So there's also like that play

01:10:59 ◼   ► 'cause Macintosh is also a type of Apple like.

01:11:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no.

01:11:02 ◼   ► - The guy just so happens to be called Jonathan.

01:11:04 ◼   ► - But what I'm saying is,

01:11:06 ◼   ► why didn't he just call it Jonathan?

01:11:08 ◼   ► Why is the the there?

01:11:10 ◼   ► - It's the the, it's like, oh, and this is the Jonathan.

01:11:14 ◼   ► - Because we already have Lisa, right?

01:11:17 ◼   ► - Well, so Apple now doesn't want you to use those words,

01:11:22 ◼   ► right, they want you to call it iPhone, not the iPhone.

01:11:28 ◼   ► Maybe it's in backlash to this.

01:11:31 ◼   ► I believe the actual--

01:11:33 ◼   ► - That's not true.

01:11:34 ◼   ► - That's not true at all.

01:11:35 ◼   ► I believe the actual project name

01:11:38 ◼   ► was Jonathan Computer Concept,

01:11:41 ◼   ► but I couldn't nail that down.

01:11:44 ◼   ► It was just one source.

01:11:45 ◼   ► And so I went with the Jonathan.

01:11:47 ◼   ► - Was that something that journalism school made you do?

01:11:52 ◼   ► - It did, yeah, I might agree.

01:11:53 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

01:11:54 ◼   ► - I did it.

01:11:55 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:57 ◼   ► I also had frog design as two words.

01:12:00 ◼   ► Sometimes they use their name as one word, very confusing.

01:12:03 ◼   ► So it was this concept

01:12:05 ◼   ► where you could basically build your own computer

01:12:08 ◼   ► and they went to frog design who did a mock-up of it.

01:12:12 ◼   ► The very, very few handful of pictures of this thing

01:12:15 ◼   ► come from the frog design work.

01:12:17 ◼   ► It's like in a slate gray color

01:12:19 ◼   ► and there's also like a snow white kind of platinum color.

01:12:22 ◼   ► These photos basically exist in one book

01:12:26 ◼   ► and there are a couple photos on the internet

01:12:28 ◼   ► that people say are from the actual time period,

01:12:31 ◼   ► but that's hard to confirm.

01:12:34 ◼   ► So very little information and very little photos.

01:12:37 ◼   ► - And how did you come across this?

01:12:39 ◼   ► Like why did you write this?

01:12:40 ◼   ► Like what happened that made you write this?

01:12:43 ◼   ► - So I came across this the first time

01:12:45 ◼   ► because of the renders that again,

01:12:48 ◼   ► I'm fortunate enough to have in the article

01:12:50 ◼   ► by Dana or NanoRaptor.

01:12:53 ◼   ► She's put all sorts of wacky renders

01:12:56 ◼   ► on social media for years.

01:12:58 ◼   ► And the first time I saw this, I was like, oh.

01:13:00 ◼   ► - Everyone's seen a NanoRaptor image

01:13:03 ◼   ► and thought it was real, right?

01:13:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh yeah, yeah.

01:13:07 ◼   ► - That's happened to everybody.

01:13:08 ◼   ► - It's happened to everyone.

01:13:09 ◼   ► - I have no idea what you're talking about.

01:13:11 ◼   ► - Federico, you have seen NanoRaptor renders before,

01:13:14 ◼   ► like on social media.

01:13:15 ◼   ► - Nano.

01:13:16 ◼   ► - You've definitely seen them.

01:13:19 ◼   ► 'Cause the NanoRaptor accounts is basically just like,

01:13:23 ◼   ► most of the time it's like hardware

01:13:26 ◼   ► that looks like it could have existed, but is fake.

01:13:30 ◼   ► Like it's fake stuff that they make.

01:13:31 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:13:33 ◼   ► - And you will have 100% seen these before,

01:13:37 ◼   ► but you might just not be familiar with it.

01:13:38 ◼   ► - NanoRaptor. - So they just get reposted

01:13:40 ◼   ► all the time, yeah.

01:13:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:13:43 ◼   ► - There are links in the article to her,

01:13:45 ◼   ► Macedon and Blue Sky account.

01:13:48 ◼   ► My favorites are like the boxes for software

01:13:53 ◼   ► that didn't come in boxes.

01:13:54 ◼   ► For some reason that always tickles me.

01:13:56 ◼   ► But I saw these renders, I mean, a while ago,

01:14:00 ◼   ► and I was like, oh, I wonder what that's about.

01:14:03 ◼   ► And basically like it triggered me a memory

01:14:06 ◼   ► from an Apple book that I have on my shelf.

01:14:10 ◼   ► I was like, oh, that name is familiar to me,

01:14:12 ◼   ► but I kind of just like put it into do list

01:14:14 ◼   ► with like a year deadline, like right about the Jonathan.

01:14:18 ◼   ► And it finally came up.

01:14:20 ◼   ► I was like, you know what, I got some time this week.

01:14:22 ◼   ► This is a good time to do this.

01:14:24 ◼   ► And so it is, was a real concept.

01:14:29 ◼   ► There was real, at least mock-up hardware built.

01:14:32 ◼   ► I'm very unclear on how far down the road

01:14:38 ◼   ► of functionality they got.

01:14:40 ◼   ► Nothing I have read says, and this thing was up and working.

01:14:43 ◼   ► I believe what they showed John Scully

01:14:46 ◼   ► and the other Apple executives was the frog design mock-up

01:14:51 ◼   ► and then basically a lot of talk about

01:14:53 ◼   ► this is how we think this could work.

01:14:56 ◼   ► And I have it in the blog post,

01:15:00 ◼   ► but there's a couple of books that talk about this.

01:15:03 ◼   ► And basically John Scully was like, well,

01:15:05 ◼   ► if someone can run macOS and DOS on the same computer,

01:15:09 ◼   ► what if they like DOS better

01:15:11 ◼   ► and they actually leave the Apple ecosystem?

01:15:13 ◼   ► 'Cause the team working on this thought,

01:15:15 ◼   ► okay, you'll want to use your Mac, right?

01:15:18 ◼   ► Or the next generation of the Apple platform,

01:15:21 ◼   ► whatever that is, but you also may need to use other systems

01:15:25 ◼   ► and you can rely on those things sort of in a legacy mode

01:15:29 ◼   ► through this module, but because it's super flexible,

01:15:32 ◼   ► you'll just stay in the Apple ecosystem.

01:15:34 ◼   ► And I think Scully was right to kill it.

01:15:36 ◼   ► I mean, it's a bananas concept.

01:15:37 ◼   ► It would have cost a fortune.

01:15:39 ◼   ► I think it would have opened the door

01:15:41 ◼   ► because we know historically the Mac was good for a time

01:15:45 ◼   ► and then got bad or didn't evolve

01:15:47 ◼   ► the way some of the other platforms did.

01:15:49 ◼   ► And so I think they were right to kill it,

01:15:52 ◼   ► but it's just like this weirdo,

01:15:54 ◼   ► what could have been like alternative timeline thing.

01:15:58 ◼   ► And the renders are amazing.

01:15:59 ◼   ► The photos are amazing.

01:16:00 ◼   ► The whole thing is so wacky.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I couldn't help myself, but dive into it.

01:16:05 ◼   ► - You kind of, it's called the genre.

01:16:07 ◼   ► You know, like the name just,

01:16:09 ◼   ► it's begging to be written about.

01:16:12 ◼   ► The computer is called the Jonathan, you know?

01:16:15 ◼   ► This isn't your average computer.

01:16:16 ◼   ► This one's a Jonathan.

01:16:18 ◼   ► - It's Jonathan.

01:16:19 ◼   ► - They wouldn't have shipped it with that name, right?

01:16:21 ◼   ► - I wouldn't think so, but who knows?

01:16:24 ◼   ► - The Jonathan.

01:16:25 ◼   ► - They did Lisa, but of course, you know, by this point,

01:16:30 ◼   ► by the time this would have come out,

01:16:31 ◼   ► jobs would have been gone.

01:16:32 ◼   ► So who knows?

01:16:34 ◼   ► - I don't know if that means they would or they wouldn't.

01:16:37 ◼   ► - Exactly.

01:16:39 ◼   ► - It feels like Apple at that time

01:16:40 ◼   ► were doing a lot of things

01:16:41 ◼   ► maybe they shouldn't have been doing.

01:16:42 ◼   ► So maybe, maybe really they should have done the Jonathan.

01:16:45 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:16:46 ◼   ► - Like that's what time has taught

01:16:48 ◼   ► 'cause they were doing things then

01:16:49 ◼   ► that they shouldn't have been doing.

01:16:51 ◼   ► So maybe the things that they thought they shouldn't do

01:16:52 ◼   ► were the things they should have done.

01:16:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, and as Daphne points out in the chat room,

01:16:56 ◼   ► Apple did support DOS compatibility through add-in cards

01:17:02 ◼   ► that they made themselves,

01:17:03 ◼   ► but that was a few years down the road

01:17:06 ◼   ► and not the same thing as this.

01:17:08 ◼   ► And so there is some irony that some of the technology

01:17:13 ◼   ► in this concept came to fruition as did some of the work on,

01:17:17 ◼   ► so the processor that was gonna, I guess,

01:17:19 ◼   ► power all of this, or at least power the Mac part of it

01:17:22 ◼   ► was gonna be the 68030.

01:17:24 ◼   ► That was basically a promised processor that wasn't out yet,

01:17:28 ◼   ► but that work on that platform ended up paying off

01:17:31 ◼   ► in some later Macintosh models.

01:17:33 ◼   ► So it's not like all this work went to waste.

01:17:36 ◼   ► Some of the concepts showed up elsewhere.

01:17:39 ◼   ► I got a cool blog post out of it 40 years later,

01:17:43 ◼   ► and now people can learn about it.

01:17:46 ◼   ► - I'm sure everyone feels like their work was worth it now

01:17:49 ◼   ► that you've written about it.

01:17:51 ◼   ► - I hope that the people working on this read this

01:17:54 ◼   ► and are like, yeah, people now know about the thing we did

01:17:57 ◼   ► because it is interesting.

01:18:00 ◼   ► I kind of talk about this towards the end of the article,

01:18:04 ◼   ► but I didn't jump super like down this rabbit hole.

01:18:06 ◼   ► I really kind of want to focus on just what the concept was.

01:18:10 ◼   ► But the idea is still kind of around,

01:18:14 ◼   ► like that you can run on your Mac,

01:18:18 ◼   ► you can run iPhone and iPad software,

01:18:20 ◼   ► you can run stuff in the command line,

01:18:21 ◼   ► you can run web apps,

01:18:23 ◼   ► and that's all solved on the software layer now,

01:18:26 ◼   ► not the hardware layer.

01:18:28 ◼   ► But the hardware layer made me think of our friend Federico

01:18:32 ◼   ► and his Mac pad, right?

01:18:33 ◼   ► This is the most Federico computer of the 80s ever,

01:18:36 ◼   ► because you're building exactly what you want

01:18:39 ◼   ► with the components you need to get your job done.

01:18:41 ◼   ► - No kickstands though.

01:18:43 ◼   ► - No kickstands.

01:18:45 ◼   ► You're gonna need a big table though.

01:18:47 ◼   ► This thing must have weighed a thousand pounds.

01:18:50 ◼   ► - Visually, I do kind of like it.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Like as a way to do what they were trying to do,

01:18:57 ◼   ► I think that the ideas,

01:18:59 ◼   ► like the visual design of it's pretty good.

01:19:01 ◼   ► I'm talking specifically about the renders.

01:19:05 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:19:06 ◼   ► - Like the real ones, the frog design ones,

01:19:09 ◼   ► 'cause that's obviously the closest

01:19:10 ◼   ► that we can get to it actually of being a real thing.

01:19:13 ◼   ► And I think the stack of things underneath the display

01:19:18 ◼   ► looks really nice.

01:19:20 ◼   ► It's got kind of X serve vibes to me.

01:19:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, kind of.

01:19:23 ◼   ► - With the slots, so like a Drobo or something.

01:19:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:19:28 ◼   ► - I dig it.

01:19:29 ◼   ► I like looking at keyboard too, it looks nice.

01:19:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

01:19:32 ◼   ► The two photos are of the frog design hardware

01:19:35 ◼   ► and the renders are kind of based on those.

01:19:38 ◼   ► And there's like next DNA in this,

01:19:40 ◼   ► like the display that frog design put together

01:19:44 ◼   ► for this concept straight up is what Next ended up shipping

01:19:48 ◼   ► like six years later.

01:19:49 ◼   ► I mean, some of this hardware is very cool.

01:19:53 ◼   ► The black sort of slate color,

01:19:55 ◼   ► very different than anything Apple was doing at the time

01:19:58 ◼   ► and really ever did.

01:19:59 ◼   ► Like they never really kind of did a blue gray plastic.

01:20:02 ◼   ► But that was part of it.

01:20:04 ◼   ► I think when you have a concept like this,

01:20:05 ◼   ► part of it is how it looks,

01:20:07 ◼   ► because particularly in something like this,

01:20:11 ◼   ► where you're gonna have these modules

01:20:14 ◼   ► and the system kind of does whatever magic it needs to do

01:20:16 ◼   ► to make it all work together.

01:20:17 ◼   ► Like the functionality and the design are one thing, right?

01:20:23 ◼   ► Like in one of her renders,

01:20:24 ◼   ► she has like a Roland interface and is like,

01:20:28 ◼   ► yeah, like Roland is gonna put their stuff on it

01:20:31 ◼   ► and like design it and have their logo on it,

01:20:35 ◼   ► but it's gonna kind of match the design of the whole family

01:20:38 ◼   ► and you can like build your own thing.

01:20:40 ◼   ► That's super interesting.

01:20:42 ◼   ► And something that we don't have now

01:20:44 ◼   ► when all this is sort of abstract software

01:20:46 ◼   ► and not hardware on our desks,

01:20:49 ◼   ► at least for most of us without Mac pads.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:20:53 ◼   ► I kind of want one.

01:20:55 ◼   ► I want one.

01:20:56 ◼   ► I wish some of these were floating around.

01:20:57 ◼   ► It'd be cool to have.

01:20:58 ◼   ► A Jonathan?

01:20:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:21:00 ◼   ► There is a project, someone sent me a link.

01:21:01 ◼   ► I need to look into it more.

01:21:02 ◼   ► Some people have been like 3D printing,

01:21:06 ◼   ► like enclosures and stuff that kind of in the style,

01:21:10 ◼   ► which is fun.

01:21:11 ◼   ► Maybe I'll do that and put like my SSDs

01:21:13 ◼   ► in like a Jonathan case one day.

01:21:15 ◼   ► It's not like people aren't making things

01:21:17 ◼   ► to look like the Jonathan, right?

01:21:18 ◼   ► Like it's just something that looks like it, surely.

01:21:21 ◼   ► No, no, it's like one project very specifically

01:21:23 ◼   ► is like 3D print your own Jonathan.

01:21:26 ◼   ► Jeez, how?

01:21:28 ◼   ► How are there enough people that know about this?

01:21:32 ◼   ► Again, like when you Googled this,

01:21:33 ◼   ► there was like four things and none of them--

01:21:37 ◼   ► Maybe it's Jonathan.

01:21:39 ◼   ► Maybe it's just Jonathan.

01:21:40 ◼   ► That might actually be Jonathan.

01:21:42 ◼   ► Could be.

01:21:43 ◼   ► It could be.

01:21:45 ◼   ► And that's why I took the time like going through these books

01:21:48 ◼   ► quoting the books because there was very little information.

01:21:52 ◼   ► It was scattered.

01:21:53 ◼   ► And now I hope this blog post is like the one true source

01:21:55 ◼   ► of information about this thing.

01:21:58 ◼   ► And getting to use the renders is just a cherry on top.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Why-- you don't know the answer to this question,

01:22:05 ◼   ► but I'm asking why does everybody at Apple

01:22:08 ◼   ► take the H out of Jonathan?

01:22:10 ◼   ► Why does that happen?

01:22:11 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

01:22:12 ◼   ► You got to ask his mom.

01:22:13 ◼   ► Maybe she named him.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Because Johnny too, right?

01:22:15 ◼   ► It's J-O-N-Y.

01:22:16 ◼   ► What's going on over there?

01:22:18 ◼   ► No H's?

01:22:20 ◼   ► It's confusing.

01:22:23 ◼   ► I mean, it's an H-free zone.

01:22:27 ◼   ► What do you think of this, Federico?

01:22:28 ◼   ► You've been quiet.

01:22:29 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I'm just--

01:22:31 ◼   ► I'm still thinking about the fact that this renders.

01:22:34 ◼   ► Like I think I saw these renders from this account a while back.

01:22:39 ◼   ► I never really paid attention.