Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected episode 493.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Fitbot, ExpressVPN and Ecamm.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Steven Hackett and I have the pleasure

00:00:19 ◼   ► of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Well, hello there.

00:00:23 ◼   ► What's up?

00:00:25 ◼   ► Oh, nothing much. Hello Federico.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Hello. Hi.

00:00:29 ◼   ► We're over here as normal and we have follow up.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Yes, yes we do.

00:00:35 ◼   ► This is gonna be the last week of shower follow up.

00:00:39 ◼   ► I'm drawing the line here.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Oh no, no, come on.

00:00:43 ◼   ► What if someone's shower goes green?

00:00:46 ◼   ► Well, you wanna talk about that?

00:00:47 ◼   ► Mm, it was a real thing.

00:00:49 ◼   ► It affected real innocent people.

00:00:52 ◼   ► Shower, green showers?

00:00:53 ◼   ► What if a shower starts hissing?

00:00:56 ◼   ► Hissing shower?

00:00:59 ◼   ► Playing the classics today, boys.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Yeah, we got the hits, we got the hits.

00:01:04 ◼   ► It was a real good starter episode

00:01:06 ◼   ► for a new listener, you know?

00:01:07 ◼   ► Something.

00:01:09 ◼   ► Many people are typing

00:01:12 ◼   ► because this is what I'm labeling

00:01:13 ◼   ► this little section of follow up

00:01:15 ◼   ► because many people wanted to hear more

00:01:18 ◼   ► about why Mike is an evening shower.

00:01:20 ◼   ► I don't understand why this is even.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Wait, what? What's the question

00:01:23 ◼   ► about this, why is this a thing

00:01:24 ◼   ► that lots of people care about? You started saying

00:01:26 ◼   ► something about, oh, I take evening showers.

00:01:29 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:30 ◼   ► And then we moved on

00:01:31 ◼   ► and people have strong feelings about morning.

00:01:32 ◼   ► Because why wouldn't you just move on?

00:01:34 ◼   ► Right, like why does this need to come up?

00:01:37 ◼   ► Like, I shower at night.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Like, oh no.

00:01:41 ◼   ► I don't get it.

00:01:41 ◼   ► Is this a weird thing?

00:01:43 ◼   ► Because I also do.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Thank you, Federico.

00:01:46 ◼   ► People have to, here's one of these things

00:01:49 ◼   ► where like people like Casey Liss.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Casey is actually one of these people.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, to be fair,

00:01:56 ◼   ► this was the best SPM. Care about people's decision.

00:01:58 ◼   ► And I can't remember whether Casey is an evening

00:02:01 ◼   ► or morning shower.

00:02:03 ◼   ► But whatever, he has like a strong opinion about it.

00:02:05 ◼   ► I think he's a night shower, probably.

00:02:07 ◼   ► Because I think I disagree with him.

00:02:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I think he is a night shower.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Because I remember him saying something like,

00:02:11 ◼   ► would you really want to get in bed

00:02:13 ◼   ► with all of your grossness from the day?

00:02:15 ◼   ► Yeah, that's part of it, yeah.

00:02:19 ◼   ► But also, I just like to shower at night.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Like, it's just what I like to do.

00:02:22 ◼   ► It's more relaxing.

00:02:23 ◼   ► And it's like, you unwind at the end of the day,

00:02:26 ◼   ► you take a nice shower and you're all clean and warm.

00:02:29 ◼   ► And then you go to sleep or you just chill with the movie

00:02:31 ◼   ► before going to sleep.

00:02:32 ◼   ► It's nice.

00:02:33 ◼   ► But when I do shower in the morning,

00:02:35 ◼   ► that's also good too.

00:02:36 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:02:37 ◼   ► Like I don't, it's like, it just, dude, I'm clean.

00:02:41 ◼   ► You know, like, what's the deal?

00:02:43 ◼   ► Stephen, what's your problem with it?

00:02:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:46 ◼   ► I need the morning shower to wake up.

00:02:48 ◼   ► Well, I just have a coffee, you know?

00:02:50 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

00:02:51 ◼   ► That's what does it for me.

00:02:53 ◼   ► I pour coffee over my head.

00:02:55 ◼   ► I also just feel, I also feel this is gross during the day

00:02:57 ◼   ► if I don't shower in the morning.

00:02:59 ◼   ► Now, here's the secret about the morning shower.

00:03:02 ◼   ► It doesn't preclude the evening shower.

00:03:05 ◼   ► So like, if you work out and get sweaty,

00:03:07 ◼   ► like, rinse off before bed.

00:03:09 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:03:10 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:03:11 ◼   ► You can just shower twice a day

00:03:12 ◼   ► and that's also an option, you know?

00:03:14 ◼   ► Just shower in the morning and shower in the evening.

00:03:16 ◼   ► And I don't understand why there's so much feedback

00:03:19 ◼   ► about an inconsequential life decision.

00:03:23 ◼   ► Because the internet.

00:03:24 ◼   ► When I'm on vacation, I shower a lot.

00:03:27 ◼   ► That's something I like to do when I'm on vacation.

00:03:29 ◼   ► I like to take like two or three showers a day

00:03:32 ◼   ► when I'm on vacation.

00:03:33 ◼   ► When we go visit my mom's family in North Carolina.

00:03:38 ◼   ► Do you mean me and you or just you?

00:03:40 ◼   ► My family.

00:03:42 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:03:43 ◼   ► My wife and I and our kids go to North Carolina

00:03:47 ◼   ► to visit aunts and uncles and my one living grandparent.

00:03:51 ◼   ► We always rent the same house.

00:03:54 ◼   ► It's in the next town over.

00:03:55 ◼   ► It's on Airbnb.

00:03:56 ◼   ► It's the whole house which is pretty nice.

00:03:58 ◼   ► And it has the most incredible bathroom situation.

00:04:03 ◼   ► It's this old like farmhouse that they redid

00:04:06 ◼   ► and spent who knows how much money on.

00:04:08 ◼   ► It has a huge deep tub.

00:04:12 ◼   ► So it's not like a shower tub like I have at my house.

00:04:14 ◼   ► It's like a deep tub, you know, like deep.

00:04:17 ◼   ► And then it has a giant glassed in shower

00:04:21 ◼   ► that like eight people could fit in.

00:04:24 ◼   ► No, we don't invite that many people.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Hang on, how do you know?

00:04:28 ◼   ► It's big.

00:04:29 ◼   ► It has a shower head on each end and in the center,

00:04:32 ◼   ► in the center it has like the rainfall head.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Oh, are you kidding me?

00:04:36 ◼   ► Can you turn them all on at the same time?

00:04:38 ◼   ► You can turn on, I'm trying to think.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I think you can.

00:04:43 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:04:44 ◼   ► They're all controlled individually

00:04:45 ◼   ► but you can't turn them all on.

00:04:47 ◼   ► You'll just blast through the hot water.

00:04:48 ◼   ► You'll water board yourself, but you'll have a good time.

00:04:52 ◼   ► So we've stayed in this house either two or three times.

00:04:54 ◼   ► I don't think we're gonna make it this summer

00:04:57 ◼   ► but we may go in the fall and we will rent that house again

00:05:00 ◼   ► because of the master bathroom.

00:05:02 ◼   ► It's awesome.

00:05:03 ◼   ► That sounds incredible.

00:05:04 ◼   ► It's really good.

00:05:05 ◼   ► I really loved like just like a good shower head,

00:05:08 ◼   ► like just like a big one.

00:05:09 ◼   ► I like showers that if you're like under the water

00:05:13 ◼   ► you can't breathe.

00:05:14 ◼   ► I like it to be that amount of water.

00:05:17 ◼   ► It's hard to get that though.

00:05:18 ◼   ► 'Cause there's a lot of pressure, shower pressures.

00:05:20 ◼   ► I'm seeing if I can find a picture

00:05:22 ◼   ► of the bathroom for y'all.

00:05:23 ◼   ► That would be good.

00:05:25 ◼   ► Probably can't share it.

00:05:26 ◼   ► I'm not gonna share it.

00:05:27 ◼   ► But I'll share it online in the show notes.

00:05:30 ◼   ► Well, I guess I could take a screenshot of it

00:05:32 ◼   ► or I could strip the metadata out of it.

00:05:35 ◼   ► I'm trying to find.

00:05:35 ◼   ► No, no, with the location, please.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So that we can all see it.

00:05:38 ◼   ► The problem is people will reverse image search it.

00:05:42 ◼   ► And then when you say I'm going to North Carolina

00:05:44 ◼   ► then there'll be like a hundred people on the lawn.

00:05:47 ◼   ► I don't think I'm that popular.

00:05:48 ◼   ► Well, you could be though.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Maybe seven people will show up and be like,

00:05:52 ◼   ► can we get in the shower with you?

00:05:54 ◼   ► She said it could hold eight people.

00:05:56 ◼   ► What are we listening to?

00:05:58 ◼   ► Why are we still?

00:06:01 ◼   ► We're still talking about shower.

00:06:03 ◼   ► I told you this is the last time.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And you said, no, it's not.

00:06:05 ◼   ► No, you said it last week.

00:06:08 ◼   ► I don't believe you anymore.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Jeremy and Daniel both wrote in praising the use

00:06:13 ◼   ► of wearing AirPods in the shower.

00:06:15 ◼   ► Jeremy said earbuds in the shower

00:06:17 ◼   ► seems way less weird than a speaker.

00:06:20 ◼   ► I don't know about that, Jeremy.

00:06:21 ◼   ► I put an AirPod in when I start getting ready.

00:06:24 ◼   ► Some days, if I make my fancy coffee, I have to shave.

00:06:26 ◼   ► It might be 15 to 20 minutes

00:06:28 ◼   ► before I can even get in the shower.

00:06:30 ◼   ► An AirPod pro in one ear lets me listen to a podcast.

00:06:33 ◼   ► Hosts remind me that I'm out of shampoo.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Thanks, Steven.

00:06:36 ◼   ► While keeping an ear out for chaos.

00:06:38 ◼   ► But like, I don't understand, like, no, no, no, no, no.

00:06:42 ◼   ► Don't use an AirPod in the shower.

00:06:44 ◼   ► Don't wear your AirPods in the shower.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Just don't do it.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Don't.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Just don't do it.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:06:49 ◼   ► I preferred this show when we were receiving pictures

00:06:53 ◼   ► of people's thighs, honestly.

00:06:56 ◼   ► We'd go back to that.

00:06:57 ◼   ► It was so much better.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Now we're getting shower and hygiene feedback.

00:07:01 ◼   ► The size of the shower, or no?

00:07:02 ◼   ► Is that too much?

00:07:04 ◼   ► Is that too much?

00:07:05 ◼   ► Look, I'm cool with it, all right?

00:07:06 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Look, it's up to you.

00:07:09 ◼   ► If you want to do that, that's fine.

00:07:11 ◼   ► I'm not necessarily saying you need to,

00:07:13 ◼   ► but if you want to, that's your choice.

00:07:16 ◼   ► You know?

00:07:17 ◼   ► Oh no, this house is on Airbnb right now.

00:07:21 ◼   ► Oh, Dan.

00:07:22 ◼   ► I clicked the old link and it doesn't go anywhere.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Let's move on to our new recurring segment

00:07:27 ◼   ► that everyone's having.

00:07:28 ◼   ► Ah, yes.

00:07:29 ◼   ► It's called Time for Teach Italian.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Oh, okay.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Oh yes, oh yes.

00:07:32 ◼   ► In our quest to make Mike and Steven

00:07:36 ◼   ► learn the Italian language, or at least the basics of it,

00:07:39 ◼   ► we are starting with the alphabet

00:07:41 ◼   ► and Mike, can you remind me where we left off last week?

00:07:45 ◼   ► Elle.

00:07:47 ◼   ► Elle.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Elle.

00:07:49 ◼   ► Elle.

00:07:49 ◼   ► Elle.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Elle.

00:07:51 ◼   ► So we stopped at the L, or in Italian, Elle, okay?

00:07:55 ◼   ► So we are moving up.

00:07:57 ◼   ► We're moving past the halfway point of the Italian alphabet

00:08:00 ◼   ► and I'll give you a preview, all right?

00:08:03 ◼   ► So for sure, we are going to do

00:08:06 ◼   ► M, N, O, P, Q.

00:08:11 ◼   ► That's M, N, O, P, Q, all right?

00:08:14 ◼   ► So I think it's, so M and N are pretty similar to the L.

00:08:19 ◼   ► If we can't get those, we can't get any, you know?

00:08:22 ◼   ► Actually, I would just say, these first three,

00:08:26 ◼   ► pretty simple, you know?

00:08:27 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:08:29 ◼   ► I found pictures, I found pictures.

00:08:31 ◼   ► I'm sending them to y'all.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Okay.

00:08:33 ◼   ► Steven, we have moved on.

00:08:35 ◼   ► No, no, it took me a long time to find this page.

00:08:38 ◼   ► It is still on Airbnb, it was just like,

00:08:40 ◼   ► I think they're URLs.

00:08:41 ◼   ► That is a big shower.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:43 ◼   ► That is a very, very, very big shower.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Uh-huh, I like how deep the tub is, it's awesome.

00:08:48 ◼   ► I don't know why the shower's so big.

00:08:50 ◼   ► It's aggressively big, but it's awesome.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Oh, it's for two people, 'cause they got like the two.

00:08:55 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I mean, for eight, if you need it to be.

00:08:58 ◼   ► I mean, don't send pictures.

00:09:01 ◼   ► Yeah, so we were saying, "emme, ene."

00:09:06 ◼   ► All right, so let's preview, "emme, ene."

00:09:09 ◼   ► All right, these are the first two.

00:09:10 ◼   ► "Emme, ene."

00:09:11 ◼   ► "Emme, ene."

00:09:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:09:13 ◼   ► Okay, Steven has still the same,

00:09:15 ◼   ► your weakness is that you don't do the double consonants.

00:09:19 ◼   ► So it's not "emme" or "ene," it's "emme."

00:09:22 ◼   ► "Emme, ene."

00:09:25 ◼   ► Steven, here's, I'm gonna get,

00:09:26 ◼   ► Steven, I wanna try and help you out here, all right?

00:09:28 ◼   ► Please.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Just do a fake Italian accent, just do it.

00:09:31 ◼   ► It will help you, I promise.

00:09:33 ◼   ► I know you're worried that like--

00:09:34 ◼   ► I don't wanna get canceled.

00:09:35 ◼   ► Italy will cancel you, but you need to just lean in.

00:09:38 ◼   ► You need to lean in.

00:09:39 ◼   ► "Emme, ene."

00:09:42 ◼   ► Yeah, that's better.

00:09:45 ◼   ► I mean, it wasn't worse.

00:09:46 ◼   ► I did it in my hands, and I said it, so.

00:09:48 ◼   ► Do the hands, I do the hands.

00:09:51 ◼   ► All right, so with the letter, with the O,

00:09:53 ◼   ► you don't need, it's not, the sound, it's not closed,

00:09:57 ◼   ► so like in English, it's not "o," it's "o."

00:09:59 ◼   ► - Oh, oh, uh.

00:10:02 ◼   ► - Yes, oh, oh.

00:10:04 ◼   ► - Wait, what did you do?

00:10:04 ◼   ► - I can't hear the difference.

00:10:07 ◼   ► - So, listen to the difference.

00:10:09 ◼   ► In English, you would say "o."

00:10:11 ◼   ► In Italian, it's "o."

00:10:13 ◼   ► You see how, yes, it's more open, it's wider.

00:10:19 ◼   ► So P, this one is easy, P.

00:10:22 ◼   ► Just like, you know, the bodily function, yes.

00:10:25 ◼   ► And finally, "ku," "ku," "ku."

00:10:30 ◼   ► It's not "ku," it's "ku," "ku," okay?

00:10:33 ◼   ► - "Ku."

00:10:34 ◼   ► - "Emme, ene," "o, ene," "p," "u," "p," "p."

00:10:39 ◼   ► - It's not "p," it's "yes."

00:10:41 ◼   ► - "Pepi, pepi, pepi."

00:10:44 ◼   ► - And "ku," "ku," "ku."

00:10:46 ◼   ► - Thank you, Professor Federico.

00:10:49 ◼   ► - You wanna save the other ones for next week?

00:10:52 ◼   ► Those are really tricky.

00:10:53 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:54 ◼   ► - We can only do five at a time, you know?

00:10:56 ◼   ► - No, we gotta finish it next week,

00:10:58 ◼   ► because I wanna move on.

00:10:58 ◼   ► I wanna let you pick actual sentences.

00:11:01 ◼   ► - That's like nine letters.

00:11:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, maybe that's the end of next week's show,

00:11:06 ◼   ► you know, rather than the start.

00:11:07 ◼   ► - So we'll save, we'll do the final seven?

00:11:11 ◼   ► - R, S, T, U, V, X, Y, Z.

00:11:14 ◼   ► - How many, seven or eight?

00:11:15 ◼   ► - Nine. - Nine.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Okay, so we'll do it next week,

00:11:18 ◼   ► but then we gotta move on,

00:11:19 ◼   ► because you need to start actually speaking Italian

00:11:21 ◼   ► with basic sentences, so.

00:11:23 ◼   ► - Yep, yep, that's gonna be just an easy ramp up.

00:11:26 ◼   ► We go from five letters a week to four sentences.

00:11:29 ◼   ► - I think some of us are doing

00:11:30 ◼   ► like three and a half letters a week, to be fair.

00:11:32 ◼   ► - All right, speaking of languages,

00:11:36 ◼   ► Eric wrote in, says, "It appears after the 17.4 update

00:11:40 ◼   ► that Siri will now read and announce messages

00:11:42 ◼   ► in the original language they were sent in,

00:11:45 ◼   ► so long as I have selected and downloaded

00:11:47 ◼   ► the appropriate voice engines.

00:11:49 ◼   ► However, this only supports reading

00:11:50 ◼   ► and not replying to texts, but it's a start."

00:11:53 ◼   ► Federico, have you seen this happen?

00:11:55 ◼   ► - I do not use this feature.

00:11:58 ◼   ► I don't have Siri read or announce notifications to me.

00:12:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I tried it for a while,

00:12:03 ◼   ► and then eventually I stopped doing it.

00:12:06 ◼   ► Stephen, do you have it?

00:12:08 ◼   ► - I do for like iMessages and for carrot weather,

00:12:13 ◼   ► because if I'm on my bike or like working out

00:12:17 ◼   ► and it's gonna rain, I would like to know,

00:12:19 ◼   ► but they're the only two that have that permission.

00:12:22 ◼   ► - Interesting, yeah, I don't do it at all.

00:12:23 ◼   ► - I think this is a nice first step

00:12:25 ◼   ► toward a multilingual Siri, which I really hope

00:12:28 ◼   ► is something that's gonna happen in iOS 18.

00:12:30 ◼   ► But yeah, it's very limited for now,

00:12:34 ◼   ► and I mean, I gotta believe that once they're gonna do

00:12:36 ◼   ► a proper multilingual Siri, it's gonna be based

00:12:39 ◼   ► on the AI features that they're planning, right?

00:12:42 ◼   ► So a system that can actually understand on the fly

00:12:44 ◼   ► whether you're speaking to it in Italian or French

00:12:47 ◼   ► or German or English and dynamically sort of adapt to that.

00:12:51 ◼   ► So I really hope that's something we're gonna see in June.

00:12:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, I used to use the announce messages thing,

00:12:57 ◼   ► but I love my wife, right?

00:12:59 ◼   ► - That's good.

00:13:00 ◼   ► - I love my wife more than anybody else does,

00:13:02 ◼   ► would be my assumption.

00:13:03 ◼   ► But she writes very long text messages and multiple.

00:13:08 ◼   ► Like if she wants to tell me something,

00:13:10 ◼   ► she's gonna tell me everything.

00:13:12 ◼   ► And so that means that we could be going on

00:13:16 ◼   ► for like two minutes and Siri's just reading messages to me.

00:13:20 ◼   ► So at a certain point, I was like, I gotta turn it off.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And I told her, I was like,

00:13:24 ◼   ► I've turned that feature off now.

00:13:25 ◼   ► 'Cause the thing is, it's like,

00:13:26 ◼   ► I want to read the message, right?

00:13:28 ◼   ► And I'm still gonna have to read the message

00:13:31 ◼   ► after Siri has told me all about it.

00:13:33 ◼   ► So I hear it and then I have to read it.

00:13:36 ◼   ► That's too many times for the same message, you know?

00:13:39 ◼   ► - I think I do the opposite of Adina.

00:13:41 ◼   ► I send like six super short text messages back to back.

00:13:46 ◼   ► - That's fine.

00:13:46 ◼   ► There is definitely an etiquette around text messaging,

00:13:51 ◼   ► which I think for a lot of us was formed

00:13:53 ◼   ► in instant message days, right?

00:13:55 ◼   ► - Yes. - Like I do it too.

00:13:56 ◼   ► Like I basically, every sentence is its own message.

00:14:00 ◼   ► - Uh-huh. - Yes, yes.

00:14:02 ◼   ► - But if Adina did that to me,

00:14:04 ◼   ► my own red counter would be like 600 messages

00:14:07 ◼   ► just for one little conversation.

00:14:09 ◼   ► So there you go, my wife.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Federico sent me something really amazing the other night.

00:14:18 ◼   ► I think we both linked to it.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Apple has updated their style guide,

00:14:22 ◼   ► which is if you're gonna talk about their brand,

00:14:24 ◼   ► how they want you to talk about it.

00:14:26 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:14:27 ◼   ► - It's this big PDF full of silliness.

00:14:29 ◼   ► And Federico, I know you had a couple of favorites in here.

00:14:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, so this document that I've been using

00:14:35 ◼   ► for a long time, and I get to whether I actually respect

00:14:38 ◼   ► what is written in the document or not.

00:14:40 ◼   ► It was last updated in October, 2022,

00:14:43 ◼   ► and it was updated again in March, 2024

00:14:46 ◼   ► to account obviously for the Vision Pro and Vision OS,

00:14:49 ◼   ► plus a bunch of other updates that have happened since.

00:14:52 ◼   ► And some of my favorites, Apple doesn't want you

00:14:55 ◼   ► to use the word headset to refer to the Vision Pro.

00:14:59 ◼   ► In fact, you cannot even refer to the Vision Pro

00:15:01 ◼   ► by saying the Vision Pro.

00:15:03 ◼   ► Like other Apple products, it's just Apple Vision Pro.

00:15:05 ◼   ► You don't say, "I like the Apple Vision Pro."

00:15:09 ◼   ► You say, "I like Apple Vision Pro."

00:15:11 ◼   ► Nobody speaks like that.

00:15:12 ◼   ► - No, they say you can't use like, you have to use love.

00:15:15 ◼   ► I love Apple Vision Pro.

00:15:18 ◼   ► - You love Apple Vision Pro.

00:15:19 ◼   ► - Wait, are you joking?

00:15:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:15:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:15:22 ◼   ► - Oh, okay.

00:15:23 ◼   ► - But the fact that you thought I wasn't is something.

00:15:26 ◼   ► - No, but there are tons of other instances

00:15:29 ◼   ► of Apple saying, "Don't say this, say that instead."

00:15:32 ◼   ► Which some of them are actually like nice

00:15:35 ◼   ► sort of a modernization of the language.

00:15:37 ◼   ► For example, using the word disable,

00:15:40 ◼   ► Apple prefers you to say turn off, for example,

00:15:42 ◼   ► or switch off, which I think is a nice change.

00:15:45 ◼   ► But there is some silliness in the other.

00:15:49 ◼   ► - Wow, there's so much stuff in this PDF.

00:15:52 ◼   ► - Yes, and the other thing which is something,

00:15:55 ◼   ► the other thing that I really liked,

00:15:57 ◼   ► something that we know because this change happened

00:15:59 ◼   ► on the Apple website a couple of years ago,

00:16:02 ◼   ► but now it's been put in the style guide.

00:16:05 ◼   ► Don't refer to Apple's portable computers as notebooks.

00:16:08 ◼   ► They are laptops.

00:16:09 ◼   ► So they officially moved away from the notebook terminology

00:16:14 ◼   ► and a portable computer is now a laptop.

00:16:17 ◼   ► It's not a notebook.

00:16:18 ◼   ► So, you know, simultaneously--

00:16:20 ◼   ► - I wonder if the iPad changed that, right?

00:16:22 ◼   ► 'Cause like the iPad is more of a notebook

00:16:25 ◼   ► than a MacBook is.

00:16:28 ◼   ► - What about Mac pad, is that in here?

00:16:30 ◼   ► - I mean, what is that?

00:16:31 ◼   ► Like a note-top, lapbook.

00:16:34 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:16:36 ◼   ► - Tab-top.

00:16:37 ◼   ► - Tab-top, tab-top.

00:16:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:16:40 ◼   ► So, Stephen, do you adhere strictly to this guidelines?

00:16:45 ◼   ► - No, no.

00:16:47 ◼   ► - Me neither.

00:16:48 ◼   ► So I think this document is useful

00:16:51 ◼   ► to know the official names of features

00:16:54 ◼   ► and the capitalization of UI elements,

00:16:59 ◼   ► but I am not gonna put out a blog post and saying,

00:17:02 ◼   ► since I've been using Apple Vision Pro,

00:17:04 ◼   ► like I'm not gonna speak like that

00:17:06 ◼   ► because it's now how I speak in real life.

00:17:09 ◼   ► And, but I think, I still think it's useful

00:17:12 ◼   ► to know the official terminology,

00:17:14 ◼   ► especially for like interface elements.

00:17:16 ◼   ► That's where this document usually comes in handy for me.

00:17:20 ◼   ► - I just found a fun one.

00:17:21 ◼   ► Like I was just like scrolling through it and I stopped it.

00:17:23 ◼   ► FitDial, the dial that lets you adjust the fit

00:17:26 ◼   ► of the Apple Vision Pro.

00:17:27 ◼   ► Oh, I'm sorry.

00:17:28 ◼   ► - Did you know it was called that?

00:17:29 ◼   ► - You turn the FitDial, you don't rotate it.

00:17:33 ◼   ► - Wow, I've got a favorite for Apple Silicon.

00:17:37 ◼   ► The S is lowercase in Apple Silicon,

00:17:40 ◼   ► like Mac mini with a small M.

00:17:42 ◼   ► To refer to Mac models with Apple Silicon,

00:17:45 ◼   ► say Mac with Apple Silicon.

00:17:48 ◼   ► Don't say Apple Silicon Mac.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Here's what I like.

00:17:51 ◼   ► To refer to other Mac models,

00:17:53 ◼   ► use Intel based Mac or other Mac computers.

00:17:58 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:18:00 ◼   ► - We don't even talk about them.

00:18:02 ◼   ► - There's other ones.

00:18:03 ◼   ► - Do they have, I'm trying to find it,

00:18:05 ◼   ► but like maybe you know,

00:18:06 ◼   ► do they have how you pluralize like iPhone?

00:18:11 ◼   ► Like, you know, you've got like the iPhone.

00:18:13 ◼   ► - iPhone devices I think.

00:18:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, iPhone device.

00:18:16 ◼   ► But what about like if you're referring to like

00:18:19 ◼   ► the multiple like iPhone models in a generation?

00:18:22 ◼   ► - Exactly what you just said, I think.

00:18:25 ◼   ► - Oh really?

00:18:26 ◼   ► Okay.

00:18:27 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:18:28 ◼   ► - There's so much in here.

00:18:29 ◼   ► This is absolutely wild.

00:18:31 ◼   ► - And I also feel like this must be so hard to internalize

00:18:36 ◼   ► from a marketing and documentation standpoint.

00:18:39 ◼   ► I mean, and I know that we always find examples.

00:18:42 ◼   ► Like there was headset was used in,

00:18:44 ◼   ► I think a settings app for the Pro at one point, right?

00:18:47 ◼   ► Like, 'cause this is an incredibly hard thing to deal with.

00:18:50 ◼   ► - I think the app store calls it Vision Pro

00:18:52 ◼   ► without the Apple or Apple Vision, I think without the Pro.

00:18:56 ◼   ► - Gross.

00:18:56 ◼   ► - The alert that you get when Vision OS tells you

00:19:00 ◼   ► to move the headset slightly down.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Doesn't it still say headset?

00:19:04 ◼   ► - Oh, does it say that?

00:19:06 ◼   ► That's funny.

00:19:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:19:07 ◼   ► Move your headset slightly down.

00:19:09 ◼   ► That's what that looks like.

00:19:10 ◼   ► - Move your device.

00:19:10 ◼   ► You wanna move your device.

00:19:12 ◼   ► - Move Apple Vision Pro slightly down.

00:19:14 ◼   ► Yeah, this is a, there's a lot.

00:19:17 ◼   ► And I really like the examples of like iMovie.

00:19:21 ◼   ► Don't use iMovie when you mean movie or project.

00:19:24 ◼   ► Correct.

00:19:25 ◼   ► You can share your movie on YouTube.

00:19:26 ◼   ► Incorrect.

00:19:27 ◼   ► You can share your iMovie on YouTube.

00:19:30 ◼   ► It's full of, it's full of these things.

00:19:33 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a nice document.

00:19:36 ◼   ► I mean, if you're into this sort of thing.

00:19:38 ◼   ► But I mostly just like to-

00:19:40 ◼   ► - I just had a bit of a shock as I got to R

00:19:42 ◼   ► and the first point is racism.

00:19:44 ◼   ► It's like, whoa, I wasn't expecting to see that

00:19:47 ◼   ► in the style guide.

00:19:48 ◼   ► And it just says,

00:19:49 ◼   ► C, writing inclusively. - Do you capitalize racism?

00:19:51 ◼   ► - It doesn't, no.

00:19:52 ◼   ► - Oh, good.

00:19:53 ◼   ► Yeah, C.

00:19:54 ◼   ► - We have ray tracing is in here.

00:19:57 ◼   ► That's fun.

00:19:58 ◼   ► There's lots of stuff in there.

00:19:59 ◼   ► There's lots of stuff.

00:20:00 ◼   ► I just wanted to talk about

00:20:04 ◼   ► the crime that I commit frequently.

00:20:07 ◼   ► So-

00:20:08 ◼   ► - Frequently.

00:20:09 ◼   ► - Frequently.

00:20:09 ◼   ► Calling it iPhone, right?

00:20:13 ◼   ► Just saying like, I have iPhone or like there's new iPhone

00:20:17 ◼   ► or like this is Apple iPhone 16 or whatever

00:20:20 ◼   ► is frustrating, right?

00:20:22 ◼   ► To read and like the idea of writing that way is silly.

00:20:25 ◼   ► And I always thought it was just like, why even bother?

00:20:28 ◼   ► That was until I started making

00:20:31 ◼   ► and talking about my own products.

00:20:32 ◼   ► I do this.

00:20:35 ◼   ► I write without the the.

00:20:39 ◼   ► So with Sidekick Notepad, see that I just did it.

00:20:42 ◼   ► I don't say the because it's not the Sidekick Notepad.

00:20:44 ◼   ► That's not the name of it.

00:20:46 ◼   ► This is especially accentuated because I have a product

00:20:49 ◼   ► that does have the in the product name,

00:20:51 ◼   ► the theme system journal.

00:20:52 ◼   ► So we don't call it the Sidekick Notepad.

00:20:55 ◼   ► We call it Sidekick Notepad.

00:20:56 ◼   ► And in marketing, I would say,

00:20:58 ◼   ► you can take Sidekick Notepad with you.

00:21:00 ◼   ► I do this.

00:21:01 ◼   ► I do this and look, I need to own up to it, all right?

00:21:04 ◼   ► But like, all I'm saying is I understand

00:21:07 ◼   ► sometimes you don't wanna do it.

00:21:09 ◼   ► And so I try very hard.

00:21:11 ◼   ► - What's the plural of Sidekick Notepad?

00:21:14 ◼   ► - Sidekick Notepads because we have other products.

00:21:16 ◼   ► - Sideskick Notepad.

00:21:18 ◼   ► - Sideskick, the S the polarization is in between

00:21:22 ◼   ► the I and the C of Sidekick.

00:21:24 ◼   ► Sidekisk, that's how you supposed to do it.

00:21:27 ◼   ► If you followed the correct style guide.

00:21:29 ◼   ► So I'm just letting you know, I do this.

00:21:32 ◼   ► That's my life.

00:21:33 ◼   ► That's the crime I commit.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I apologize, but sometimes you just gotta do it.

00:21:37 ◼   ► I understand.

00:21:37 ◼   ► Me and Phil Schiller, we understand each other.

00:21:40 ◼   ► That's the end of it.

00:21:40 ◼   ► - Are you sending emails you shouldn't send to people?

00:21:43 ◼   ► - All the time, you can believe it.

00:21:45 ◼   ► The things I write down.

00:21:46 ◼   ► - Are you also gonna get a fine from the European Union?

00:21:48 ◼   ► - Legally, I can't talk about that right now.

00:21:50 ◼   ► - I guess in the UK, I guess you can't, but still.

00:21:55 ◼   ► - All right, so yeah, that's the side guide.

00:21:58 ◼   ► That's pretty nerdy document.

00:22:01 ◼   ► - I wanted to ask you Federico

00:22:04 ◼   ► about Zapier's new automation.

00:22:07 ◼   ► - Ah, yes.

00:22:08 ◼   ► - What are they doing and why is it exciting?

00:22:11 ◼   ► - So after I shared these on Mastodon,

00:22:14 ◼   ► I was told that a similar feature also exists in make.com,

00:22:19 ◼   ► which is another web automation service.

00:22:21 ◼   ► And also, of course, Microsoft rolled out a similar feature

00:22:25 ◼   ► in their sort of take on shortcuts called the Power Automate

00:22:30 ◼   ► and they branded as Co-Pilot, of course.

00:22:32 ◼   ► - What a bad name.

00:22:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's such a pretty bad app

00:22:37 ◼   ► that is confusing to use.

00:22:39 ◼   ► So anyway, the idea was that I needed to create an automation

00:22:42 ◼   ► in Zapier to automate something with the email newsletters

00:22:46 ◼   ► that we sent.

00:22:47 ◼   ► And I noticed that there was a compose field that said,

00:22:51 ◼   ► hey, you wanna describe what you're trying to build

00:22:53 ◼   ► and we're gonna use AI to assemble the actions for you.

00:22:57 ◼   ► I was like, hmm, is this like another of those features

00:23:00 ◼   ► that are like, we made it better with AI.

00:23:02 ◼   ► Is it actually gonna work?

00:23:03 ◼   ► And so I was like, okay, let me try this.

00:23:05 ◼   ► And I did and I was pretty impressed with the results.

00:23:09 ◼   ► I shared screenshots on Mastodon.

00:23:11 ◼   ► So for example, one of the things that I asked

00:23:14 ◼   ► the Zapier service was a pretty complex sentence.

00:23:18 ◼   ► When a new email is sent from button down,

00:23:21 ◼   ► which is our new email provider for newsletters,

00:23:23 ◼   ► and only if that email contains the word weekly

00:23:27 ◼   ► in the subject, extract a number from the subject

00:23:31 ◼   ► and save that number to a text file in Dropbox.

00:23:35 ◼   ► That was my description of what I wanted to have.

00:23:38 ◼   ► So basically the idea was we send email newsletters

00:23:41 ◼   ► that are in the subject line,

00:23:42 ◼   ► they say Mac Stories Weekly colon issue 408, for example.

00:23:47 ◼   ► And I wanted to extract that number

00:23:50 ◼   ► and save only the number to a text file in Dropbox.

00:23:54 ◼   ► I hit Enter on the Zapier beta AI feature and it worked.

00:23:59 ◼   ► Like it understood what I was trying to do

00:24:03 ◼   ► and it put together four actions

00:24:06 ◼   ► that would have taken me a solid 20 minutes to understand

00:24:10 ◼   ► like and to browse the collection of hundreds of actions

00:24:13 ◼   ► that Zapier has.

00:24:14 ◼   ► And I only needed to slightly edit one of them,

00:24:18 ◼   ► the third one, but it was very easy

00:24:20 ◼   ► because I just needed to change from a menu note,

00:24:22 ◼   ► do not extract text, I want you to extract a number,

00:24:25 ◼   ► but that was about it.

00:24:26 ◼   ► And like the fact that just with natural language,

00:24:30 ◼   ► this service understood what I was trying to build

00:24:33 ◼   ► and it turned a sentence that I would speak to,

00:24:36 ◼   ► like I would typically go to a developer and be like,

00:24:39 ◼   ► "Hey, I need a feature that does this and this and that."

00:24:42 ◼   ► And a human would say, "Okay, let me write some code

00:24:46 ◼   ► or let me put together some actions for you."

00:24:49 ◼   ► Here, just the large language model understood

00:24:53 ◼   ► what I wanted and it got to work.

00:24:55 ◼   ► And in just 10 seconds, I had what I was looking for.

00:24:58 ◼   ► And it got me thinking, can you imagine

00:25:00 ◼   ► when this kind of feature, if this kind of feature,

00:25:03 ◼   ► makes it to iOS and shortcuts

00:25:06 ◼   ► and how much it would lower the barrier to entry for people

00:25:12 ◼   ► who wanna use shortcuts and they know?

00:25:14 ◼   ► See, the issue with shortcuts, I think,

00:25:16 ◼   ► is there's so many people who know what they want to build,

00:25:19 ◼   ► they don't know how to build it.

00:25:22 ◼   ► And despite Apple's many attempts over the years

00:25:25 ◼   ► at simplifying the shortcuts UI with suggestions

00:25:28 ◼   ► and the gallery, and even though there's people like me

00:25:31 ◼   ► putting out guides and whatever for shortcuts,

00:25:35 ◼   ► there's still such a high barrier to entry

00:25:37 ◼   ► to put together even a modular actually complex shortcut.

00:25:42 ◼   ► But can you imagine if you could just describe

00:25:44 ◼   ► what you're looking for and shortcuts does it for you

00:25:48 ◼   ► thanks to AI and that makes me really excited.

00:25:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I am one of these people, right?

00:25:54 ◼   ► Like where frequently I have an idea for a shortcut

00:25:58 ◼   ► and I can maybe get half of the way there,

00:26:00 ◼   ► but if something is new to me like,

00:26:04 ◼   ► and I haven't built with it before

00:26:05 ◼   ► and I don't have any examples of it, I get lost, right?

00:26:09 ◼   ► 'Cause I don't really know how to get it to do what I want

00:26:12 ◼   ► in a way that feels satisfying.

00:26:14 ◼   ► And so something like this would,

00:26:16 ◼   ► even if it did like three quarters of the work

00:26:19 ◼   ► or whatever for me, even if I had to do some tweaking,

00:26:21 ◼   ► which I think you probably did to these APL ones,

00:26:24 ◼   ► it still gives me like the basic structure

00:26:28 ◼   ► of how to complete it.

00:26:29 ◼   ► Because one of the things that's really helped me

00:26:31 ◼   ► in any of the shortcuts I've built on my own

00:26:34 ◼   ► is having looked at shortcuts that you build Federico, right?

00:26:37 ◼   ► And like seeing how the short, like really advanced stuff

00:26:42 ◼   ► works kind of helps me understand

00:26:46 ◼   ► how I can get it to do what I want it to do.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And so having the system kind of hold my hand

00:26:52 ◼   ► and get me through the majority of it, at least,

00:26:55 ◼   ► would be hugely helpful for me in my work

00:26:58 ◼   ► to be able to actually get what I'm looking for

00:27:01 ◼   ► out of shortcuts, which genuinely,

00:27:03 ◼   ► like if they're able to, if they do this,

00:27:05 ◼   ► like if Apple do this and I'm not confident they will,

00:27:09 ◼   ► but if they did this, it could truly make shortcuts

00:27:13 ◼   ► what it always should have been, right?

00:27:15 ◼   ► In the way of like helping regular people use their devices

00:27:20 ◼   ► to get things done without them needing to be involved.

00:27:23 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:24 ◼   ► - That is a big if, big if.

00:27:26 ◼   ► - Big if, I know.

00:27:27 ◼   ► - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Fitbot.

00:27:33 ◼   ► When you want to change your fitness level,

00:27:34 ◼   ► it can be hard to know where to start.

00:27:36 ◼   ► That's why I'm pleased to let you know

00:27:37 ◼   ► that Fitbot is an easy and affordable way

00:27:40 ◼   ► to build a fitness plan that's just for you.

00:27:43 ◼   ► Everyone's fitness path is different,

00:27:45 ◼   ► which is why Fitbot uses data

00:27:46 ◼   ► to make sure they customize things exactly to suit you,

00:27:50 ◼   ► adapting as you improve,

00:27:51 ◼   ► so each workout will be challenging,

00:27:53 ◼   ► pushing you to make the progress you want.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Superior results are achieved when a workout program

00:28:00 ◼   ► is tailored to your unique body, experience, environment,

00:28:03 ◼   ► and goals, all of which are stored

00:28:05 ◼   ► in your Fitbot gym profile.

00:28:07 ◼   ► This mean Fitbot can track your muscle recovery

00:28:11 ◼   ► so you can avoid burnout and keep up your momentum.

00:28:14 ◼   ► And it builds your best possible workout

00:28:16 ◼   ► by combining AI with exercise science.

00:28:20 ◼   ► They've analyzed billions of data points

00:28:22 ◼   ► that have been fine-tuned by certified personal trainers.

00:28:26 ◼   ► And you can be sure you're learning new movements

00:28:28 ◼   ► the right way thanks to more than 1,000 demonstration videos.

00:28:32 ◼   ► That's my absolute favorite thing about this app.

00:28:34 ◼   ► If I'm trying something new, I can be nervous.

00:28:37 ◼   ► I don't wanna do it incorrectly where it's not effective,

00:28:40 ◼   ► but I also don't wanna do it incorrectly

00:28:41 ◼   ► and end up with an injury.

00:28:42 ◼   ► And these videos are shot from multiple angles.

00:28:44 ◼   ► They're really high quality.

00:28:45 ◼   ► It's excellent.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Muscles improve while working in concert

00:28:49 ◼   ► with the entire system.

00:28:50 ◼   ► So overworking some muscles while underworking others

00:28:53 ◼   ► can negatively impact results.

00:28:55 ◼   ► That's why Fitbot tracks muscle fatigue and recovery

00:28:58 ◼   ► to design a well-balanced workout routine,

00:29:01 ◼   ► which also means you're never going to get bored

00:29:03 ◼   ► as the app mixes up your workouts with new exercises,

00:29:06 ◼   ► rep schemes, supersets, and circuits.

00:29:10 ◼   ► All of this is really easy to use.

00:29:11 ◼   ► You stay informed with Fitbot's progress tracking charts,

00:29:15 ◼   ► weekly reports, and sharing cards,

00:29:17 ◼   ► letting you keep track of your achievements

00:29:19 ◼   ► and personal best,

00:29:20 ◼   ► and then share them with your friends and family.

00:29:22 ◼   ► And it integrates with your technology,

00:29:24 ◼   ► Apple Watch, Wear OS smartwatches,

00:29:27 ◼   ► and apps like Strava, Fitbit, and Apple Health.

00:29:30 ◼   ► Personalized training of this quality

00:29:32 ◼   ► can be really expensive,

00:29:33 ◼   ► but Fitbot is just $12.99 a month or $79.99 a year.

00:29:38 ◼   ► But you can get 25% off your membership

00:29:41 ◼   ► by signing up at fitbod.me/connected.

00:29:45 ◼   ► So go there now and get your customized fitness plan,

00:29:48 ◼   ► fitbod.me/connected.

00:29:50 ◼   ► That's F-I-T-B-O-D.

00:29:53 ◼   ► fitbod.me/connected for 25% off your membership.

00:29:58 ◼   ► Our thanks to Fitbot for the support of this show

00:30:01 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:30:02 ◼   ► Believe it or not, we have more stuff going on

00:30:10 ◼   ► with Apple and the EU.

00:30:11 ◼   ► This is like round 712, I think.

00:30:14 ◼   ► The whole situation keeps changing.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I think there's been some conversation

00:30:18 ◼   ► about why things keep changing,

00:30:19 ◼   ► which I don't really understand.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Like Apple's rules initially, like there was their suggestions

00:30:24 ◼   ► on how they could meet these things.

00:30:25 ◼   ► And clearly they've still been meeting with regulators,

00:30:30 ◼   ► sorting all this out.

00:30:31 ◼   ► The new changes that are new this week

00:30:35 ◼   ► are the ability for a app developer

00:30:39 ◼   ► to have their app available on their website,

00:30:42 ◼   ► not having to be in an alternative marketplace.

00:30:47 ◼   ► This is web distribution.

00:30:50 ◼   ► There's still a lot of fine print with this,

00:30:53 ◼   ► like a lot of fine print.

00:30:57 ◼   ► Developers are still in the new business terms.

00:31:02 ◼   ► So the core technology fee of, what is it, like 50 cents?

00:31:07 ◼   ► - 50 cents, yep.

00:31:10 ◼   ► - For each first annual install,

00:31:13 ◼   ► over 1 million in the past 12 months.

00:31:15 ◼   ► There's a calculator fee on Apple's website,

00:31:16 ◼   ► so if you're a developer, you can plug your numbers in.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Apps distributed through the web

00:31:21 ◼   ► are still have to be notarized.

00:31:24 ◼   ► Apps through the web still have to be tied to a domain

00:31:28 ◼   ► that the developer has registered in App Store Connect.

00:31:30 ◼   ► In App Store Connect, you marry a web domain and your app,

00:31:34 ◼   ► that still has to be there.

00:31:36 ◼   ► The developer's legal entity has to be within the EU.

00:31:39 ◼   ► So when talking about Epic, towards the end of last week,

00:31:45 ◼   ► where Apple allowed Epic, like a Swedish company for Epic,

00:31:50 ◼   ► in the App Store and then kicked them out,

00:31:54 ◼   ► and they were told to put them back in,

00:31:55 ◼   ► that's why it was like Epic Sweden.

00:31:57 ◼   ► You have to have a legal entity within the EU.

00:31:59 ◼   ► You have to be a member of good standing

00:32:02 ◼   ► of the Apple Developer Program for two continuous years

00:32:06 ◼   ► and have an app that has had more than 1 million

00:32:08 ◼   ► first annual installs in the prior calendar year.

00:32:12 ◼   ► So this is not for someone starting out, you know,

00:32:15 ◼   ► hey, I'm writing my first iOS app.

00:32:17 ◼   ► I'm in the EU, I just want to put it on my website.

00:32:20 ◼   ► These rules don't allow for that.

00:32:22 ◼   ► So those are the fine prints.

00:32:25 ◼   ► I think people saw the headlines, like, oh my gosh,

00:32:27 ◼   ► you can install from the web.

00:32:29 ◼   ► It's like free range sideloading.

00:32:31 ◼   ► It is not free range sideloading.

00:32:33 ◼   ► It is, you can just use a website

00:32:35 ◼   ► instead of having to work with a alternative marketplace.

00:32:40 ◼   ► Not as exciting as it sounded like.

00:32:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's still something.

00:32:47 ◼   ► - It is.

00:32:48 ◼   ► - Yes, it is not as exciting, but it is still something.

00:32:50 ◼   ► It is a change that now they'll be able to,

00:32:55 ◼   ► you as a developer don't have to go and be a part of

00:33:02 ◼   ► and do a deal with an app marketplace

00:33:06 ◼   ► to offer your app outside of the App Store, right?

00:33:11 ◼   ► That's a big deal.

00:33:12 ◼   ► - So it could save you money in that way.

00:33:13 ◼   ► You just have more flexibility

00:33:15 ◼   ► over how you want to run your business, right?

00:33:18 ◼   ► Like you're going to pay the core technology fee anyway.

00:33:21 ◼   ► And then as you say, it could save you money.

00:33:22 ◼   ► You don't have to pay a fee to somebody else,

00:33:24 ◼   ► but you also don't need to go through

00:33:25 ◼   ► their application submission process.

00:33:28 ◼   ► You can just offer it on your own, right?

00:33:31 ◼   ► And if you're willing to pay the money

00:33:33 ◼   ► that would be needed to pay for that,

00:33:35 ◼   ► you now also have potentially more freedom

00:33:38 ◼   ► provided that you meet all of the other terms.

00:33:40 ◼   ► So it is still, I think, better.

00:33:44 ◼   ► It's still not what people realistically want,

00:33:47 ◼   ► but I think this is still an improvement

00:33:49 ◼   ► over where it was a week ago.

00:33:52 ◼   ► - I think so too.

00:33:53 ◼   ► And looking at this section of these changes,

00:33:57 ◼   ► one company comes to mind.

00:33:58 ◼   ► It starts with S and ends in Potify.

00:34:02 ◼   ► I don't know if they would do this,

00:34:06 ◼   ► but I could see like, okay,

00:34:08 ◼   ► you've been in the app store for more than two years.

00:34:11 ◼   ► You have more, I'm sure,

00:34:12 ◼   ► than a million first annual installs.

00:34:15 ◼   ► Like if you're going to leave,

00:34:17 ◼   ► you're going to be stuck with

00:34:18 ◼   ► the core technology fee anyways.

00:34:20 ◼   ► Like I could see a world where Spotify

00:34:22 ◼   ► or an app of that size,

00:34:24 ◼   ► maybe this is something they would want to do.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Or they could take advantage of the next change,

00:34:29 ◼   ► which we'll talk about in a second.

00:34:30 ◼   ► - Well, the potential thing about that though

00:34:32 ◼   ► is I'm not sure if you're aware,

00:34:33 ◼   ► but currently Spotify pays Apple nothing

00:34:36 ◼   ► and they don't want to pay Apple any money.

00:34:39 ◼   ► They want to continue paying nothing.

00:34:41 ◼   ► So they probably wouldn't want to pay

00:34:42 ◼   ► the core technology fee

00:34:43 ◼   ► 'cause Spotify don't pay Apple anything.

00:34:45 ◼   ► I don't know if you knew that.

00:34:47 ◼   ► Nothing.

00:34:49 ◼   ► - I had heard that.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - I had no idea.

00:34:50 ◼   ► - There's a rumor going around.

00:34:52 ◼   ► - I didn't know that.

00:34:53 ◼   ► - Nothing.

00:34:55 ◼   ► - Nothing.

00:34:56 ◼   ► - So I think the web distribution

00:34:59 ◼   ► is obviously like a good change, right?

00:35:02 ◼   ► A good update.

00:35:03 ◼   ► But I still kind of have to wonder,

00:35:07 ◼   ► like the fact that there's all these conditions

00:35:10 ◼   ► that still need to apply here.

00:35:12 ◼   ► Like, yeah, you can do it,

00:35:13 ◼   ► but only if you are a member of good standing

00:35:17 ◼   ► and you still got to pay the core technology fee,

00:35:20 ◼   ► like all these asterisks, right?

00:35:23 ◼   ► I have to wonder, like,

00:35:25 ◼   ► if I'm a developer in the European Union

00:35:27 ◼   ► and if it is my right under this new regulation

00:35:30 ◼   ► to be able to release my apps with different,

00:35:32 ◼   ► you know, outside of the gatekeeper's control,

00:35:35 ◼   ► isn't the core technology fee

00:35:37 ◼   ► and this sort of vague idea

00:35:40 ◼   ► of being a developer in good standing,

00:35:42 ◼   ► like, is it, like,

00:35:44 ◼   ► aren't these two things still gatekeeping measures

00:35:48 ◼   ► that are going against my rights as a European developer?

00:35:52 ◼   ► - There is a, you know,

00:35:55 ◼   ► people are getting quite upset about this online

00:35:57 ◼   ► for reasons I understand,

00:35:58 ◼   ► but like by a reading of the law,

00:36:03 ◼   ► what Apple is doing is illegal in the European Union.

00:36:06 ◼   ► Like there is a, I think, a very fair reading of the DMA

00:36:10 ◼   ► where you could say this is illegal still

00:36:13 ◼   ► because they are still continuing to be a gatekeeper

00:36:18 ◼   ► because they are still telling you

00:36:20 ◼   ► what you can and can't do.

00:36:22 ◼   ► So like, and this is why,

00:36:24 ◼   ► like this is exactly why we are seeing changes

00:36:29 ◼   ► on a weekly basis right now.

00:36:31 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:36:32 ◼   ► - Because it's what Steven said at the start, right?

00:36:34 ◼   ► Like Apple put its proposals together

00:36:37 ◼   ► and they are continuing now to meet with companies,

00:36:41 ◼   ► developers, and the European Union

00:36:43 ◼   ► to continue to craft this

00:36:45 ◼   ► because what Apple is trying to do, I'm sure,

00:36:48 ◼   ► is like, what is the best reading of this law for us?

00:36:53 ◼   ► And we will craft our rules that way.

00:36:55 ◼   ► And then if we get told we can't do it,

00:36:57 ◼   ► then we'll try and do it a little bit better

00:37:00 ◼   ► for everybody else, but still good for us.

00:37:02 ◼   ► And like, they are just like inch by inch by inch,

00:37:05 ◼   ► not wanting to give anything.

00:37:06 ◼   ► And they're just only giving up

00:37:08 ◼   ► what they are being told legally they have to give up.

00:37:10 ◼   ► But if they want to continue to do business

00:37:12 ◼   ► in the European Union, that's how it seems to me.

00:37:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:37:16 ◼   ► - The next change is Apple says that app marketplaces

00:37:19 ◼   ► can now offer a catalog of apps from a single developer.

00:37:23 ◼   ► So before Spotify, again, just use them as an example,

00:37:28 ◼   ► could have not set up the Spotify store

00:37:30 ◼   ► and just have their apps in it.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Meta cannot set up the Meta app store

00:37:34 ◼   ► and just have Facebook, Instagram, threads, and WhatsApp.

00:37:37 ◼   ► They had to open their marketplaces to other developers.

00:37:41 ◼   ► And now that restriction is lifted.

00:37:43 ◼   ► So these companies, a single developer or a company

00:37:47 ◼   ► with a portfolio of apps could open their own

00:37:49 ◼   ► at Marketplace.

00:37:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, so Epic Games Store with Fortnite.

00:37:54 ◼   ► That's, you know, even if it only comes with Fortnite,

00:37:59 ◼   ► that's now legal.

00:38:01 ◼   ► - Or even if just Epic Games, right?

00:38:02 ◼   ► 'Cause they have a bunch of them.

00:38:03 ◼   ► So like, this would mean that they wouldn't have to,

00:38:06 ◼   ► if they didn't want to have it be like a Steam,

00:38:10 ◼   ► even though the Epic Games Store is,

00:38:11 ◼   ► but like Epic own a bunch of video games, right?

00:38:14 ◼   ► That they have bought over time to like make their store

00:38:17 ◼   ► more attractive.

00:38:18 ◼   ► So now if they wanted to,

00:38:19 ◼   ► they could just offer those games

00:38:20 ◼   ► and they could probably do it faster.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Like, I wouldn't have been surprised

00:38:24 ◼   ► if like it may be able to have taken them a little while

00:38:26 ◼   ► to get the Epic Games Store up and running,

00:38:28 ◼   ► because they would have needed to actually have other people

00:38:31 ◼   ► want to put their games on the store,

00:38:33 ◼   ► but now they'll be able to do it.

00:38:34 ◼   ► As you say, like they could just launch,

00:38:36 ◼   ► like we're launching with just Fortnite

00:38:37 ◼   ► and there'll be more to come,

00:38:39 ◼   ► but they will actually be able to launch

00:38:40 ◼   ► with just Fortnite if they want to,

00:38:42 ◼   ► which they definitely will.

00:38:44 ◼   ► I mean, it'd just be a case of

00:38:45 ◼   ► whether there'll be other games.

00:38:47 ◼   ► But I also think that this makes sense.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Like I don't,

00:38:50 ◼   ► that was one of the restrictions where it was like,

00:38:52 ◼   ► but so what though?

00:38:53 ◼   ► You know, like why did I have to be stores?

00:38:58 ◼   ► Like that everybody can sign up to?

00:39:01 ◼   ► Why do you care about this?

00:39:02 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:39:04 ◼   ► - And so this is an interesting one,

00:39:07 ◼   ► but it's also like realistically,

00:39:10 ◼   ► why would you, considering point one exists,

00:39:12 ◼   ► why would you do second?

00:39:13 ◼   ► Like if you're meta, right?

00:39:17 ◼   ► Why would you set up an app marketplace?

00:39:18 ◼   ► You might as well just offer them on the website.

00:39:20 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:39:21 ◼   ► Like, what's the point of the marketplace?

00:39:23 ◼   ► Unless you want to keep it clean, but yeah.

00:39:26 ◼   ► - And then this last one's a little tricky.

00:39:30 ◼   ► So people saw like the quote unquote scare sheets

00:39:33 ◼   ► or like the big texts of like,

00:39:34 ◼   ► "You were leaving to go to the website.

00:39:35 ◼   ► Apple can't protect your credit card information."

00:39:37 ◼   ► Those are still there.

00:39:39 ◼   ► But the step before that was also heavily regulated

00:39:43 ◼   ► by Apple saying you could only,

00:39:45 ◼   ► you could design your link out only in certain ways.

00:39:48 ◼   ► And now Apple says that developers can choose

00:39:51 ◼   ► how to design those promotions and other deals in their app

00:39:54 ◼   ► as opposed to using those predetermined templates.

00:39:58 ◼   ► So now they can, Apple still has their old templates there

00:40:01 ◼   ► as like a strongly recommended,

00:40:02 ◼   ► but you can make your own sort of splash page in your app

00:40:07 ◼   ► and the user can tap the link.

00:40:09 ◼   ► They will see the scare sheet of you were leaving this app

00:40:13 ◼   ► to go to the website.

00:40:14 ◼   ► You are going to be using a third-party payment processor,

00:40:17 ◼   ► not Apple's App Store payment processing.

00:40:19 ◼   ► Are you sure you know what you're doing?

00:40:21 ◼   ► Click through that and then you go

00:40:23 ◼   ► to the default web browser on the phone.

00:40:26 ◼   ► So that was kind of used to be a two-step thing.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Now it's a one-step thing in terms of what Apple requires.

00:40:34 ◼   ► This is still EU only.

00:40:35 ◼   ► So if you're a reader app

00:40:37 ◼   ► or if you're in another jurisdiction

00:40:41 ◼   ► where some of this is allowed, this particular change

00:40:45 ◼   ► where you can design your own links,

00:40:46 ◼   ► basically that is EU only

00:40:49 ◼   ► and it still requires you to accept the new App Store terms.

00:40:53 ◼   ► - That's like the idea that you need to accept

00:40:56 ◼   ► the App Store terms for this is madness.

00:40:58 ◼   ► It's madness because this is something you can do anyway.

00:41:02 ◼   ► Right?

00:41:02 ◼   ► Like why do you need to accept the new App Store terms

00:41:06 ◼   ► to do this if you're a reader app?

00:41:08 ◼   ► That doesn't make any sense, but also like,

00:41:11 ◼   ► you know, there's the scare sheet part, right?

00:41:13 ◼   ► Where they're like, ah, it's just so dangerous out there.

00:41:15 ◼   ► While I think it's ridiculous,

00:41:17 ◼   ► I at least can understand an element of it

00:41:20 ◼   ► for Apple covering themselves legally, right?

00:41:23 ◼   ► Where, you know, they don't want to be ended up

00:41:25 ◼   ► in court with some customers like,

00:41:27 ◼   ► I thought all the transactions on the iPhone were safe

00:41:29 ◼   ► and da, da, da, da, right?

00:41:30 ◼   ► Like I can understand that to a point,

00:41:33 ◼   ► but the idea that like they said you could only talk

00:41:37 ◼   ► about promotions in a certain way, like the hubris.

00:41:41 ◼   ► Like so much of this process is showing their hubris,

00:41:45 ◼   ► like what they, how they believe business should be

00:41:48 ◼   ► conducted on the iPhone.

00:41:50 ◼   ► Like there's only one good way to show a promo

00:41:54 ◼   ► and it's the way we make.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Like, what are you talking about?

00:41:56 ◼   ► Like let these companies be themselves.

00:42:00 ◼   ► Like if they want to talk to their customers,

00:42:02 ◼   ► their customers, the way they want to,

00:42:05 ◼   ► they should be able to.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Like, why do you have to insert yourself

00:42:08 ◼   ► into every part of this process?

00:42:09 ◼   ► - Well, that's the heart of it.

00:42:10 ◼   ► Apple doesn't view them as the developers.

00:42:12 ◼   ► - Exactly, yeah.

00:42:13 ◼   ► - Customers.

00:42:14 ◼   ► - Which is, which is as you, you know,

00:42:17 ◼   ► very rightly point out, like that is the reason

00:42:21 ◼   ► for a lot of this, right?

00:42:22 ◼   ► That Apple will just upset that the European Union

00:42:25 ◼   ► is making, is taking their customers away.

00:42:27 ◼   ► When they're not actually theirs to begin with.

00:42:29 ◼   ► - I find this whole argument that, that I feel like I'm,

00:42:34 ◼   ► you know, sometimes I don't even know how to comment

00:42:37 ◼   ► on certain things that I see online.

00:42:39 ◼   ► But like this idea that, oh, buying, purchasing

00:42:43 ◼   ► with your credit card stuff online is dangerous.

00:42:48 ◼   ► Why would you use your credit card on a website?

00:42:51 ◼   ► Like, like, like, like, like you don't do these things

00:42:54 ◼   ► every single day on Amazon,

00:42:56 ◼   ► or you buy stupid iPhone accessories on a website.

00:43:00 ◼   ► - Thank you so much for Instagram.

00:43:02 ◼   ► (all laughing)

00:43:04 ◼   ► - Like, like do some people even,

00:43:07 ◼   ► even have a grasp on reality or not?

00:43:11 ◼   ► Like, I don't even get it.

00:43:13 ◼   ► I don't even get it anymore.

00:43:15 ◼   ► You know, and I find it so rich, so rich

00:43:18 ◼   ► when it comes from websites where you can sign up

00:43:21 ◼   ► for a subscription with your credit card.

00:43:25 ◼   ► Now that's not an Apple subscription, right?

00:43:27 ◼   ► It's you're using your credit card on a website.

00:43:29 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:43:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:31 ◼   ► - I find that so ironic, but you know.

00:43:34 ◼   ► - This episode of Connected is brought to you by ExpressVPN.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Watching Netflix without using ExpressVPN

00:43:43 ◼   ► is a bit like buying tickets to your favorite artists,

00:43:45 ◼   ► but only being allowed to watch the opening act.

00:43:48 ◼   ► Netflix has thousands of shows across different countries,

00:43:51 ◼   ► but without a VPN, you only get access

00:43:52 ◼   ► to a limited selection based on your location.

00:43:56 ◼   ► With ExpressVPN, you can unblock those shows

00:43:58 ◼   ► by amending where it thinks you're located.

00:44:01 ◼   ► And it works on other streaming services too.

00:44:04 ◼   ► This means that I can watch The Office US

00:44:06 ◼   ► on Canadian Netflix or Rick and Morty

00:44:09 ◼   ► in Netflix in Australia.

00:44:10 ◼   ► There's also I think Redemption currently,

00:44:12 ◼   ► Netflix Canada, Back to the Future,

00:44:15 ◼   ► my all time favorite movie, also Netflix Canada.

00:44:18 ◼   ► By just one click, I can open the app,

00:44:21 ◼   ► choose the country I want Netflix to think I'm in,

00:44:23 ◼   ► and I'm off to the races.

00:44:26 ◼   ► There are so many reasons to choose ExpressVPN.

00:44:28 ◼   ► It has blazing fast speeds.

00:44:29 ◼   ► You can stream in HD with zero buffering.

00:44:32 ◼   ► It's compatible with all your devices,

00:44:34 ◼   ► phones, laptops, media consoles, smart TVs, and more.

00:44:37 ◼   ► Plus they have servers in 94 different countries,

00:44:39 ◼   ► so you can gain access to thousands of new shows.

00:44:42 ◼   ► And it works with other streaming services

00:44:44 ◼   ► like the BBC iPlayer, YouTube, and many more.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Stop paying full price for streaming services

00:44:49 ◼   ► and only getting a fraction of what they offer.

00:44:51 ◼   ► Get your money's worth by going to

00:44:53 ◼   ► expressvpn.com/connected.

00:44:56 ◼   ► That's expressvpn.com/connected,

00:45:00 ◼   ► and you'll get an extra three months of ExpressVPN for free

00:45:04 ◼   ► for using our link.

00:45:05 ◼   ► Our thanks to ExpressVPN for the support of the show

00:45:08 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:45:09 ◼   ► So in thinking about all of this, we thought,

00:45:16 ◼   ► maybe there's something to make this more fun.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Because look, we don't like talking about this.

00:45:20 ◼   ► - Oh, I do.

00:45:21 ◼   ► No, I do.

00:45:23 ◼   ► I understand why people don't,

00:45:25 ◼   ► but I like to get angry about it.

00:45:26 ◼   ► So like, you know, I do like talking about it,

00:45:29 ◼   ► but I understand that maybe a lot of people don't

00:45:31 ◼   ► or like listening to it.

00:45:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, so.

00:45:34 ◼   ► - I get excited.

00:45:35 ◼   ► - So we're turning it into a game.

00:45:37 ◼   ► This, we're just two rounds.

00:45:40 ◼   ► We are making picks on what we think

00:45:43 ◼   ► Apple will need to change next in its DMA response.

00:45:47 ◼   ► We're going to be going in order of proximity,

00:45:52 ◼   ► and we will judge these in a month to the EU.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:45:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, wait, wait, actually, hold on.

00:46:01 ◼   ► What is the EU?

00:46:03 ◼   ► - Well, Federico lives in it and you live next to it.

00:46:08 ◼   ► I live far away from it.

00:46:09 ◼   ► It's not that hard.

00:46:10 ◼   ► - No, but like if we're saying Brussels,

00:46:11 ◼   ► like I might be closer.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:46:13 ◼   ► - Well.

00:46:14 ◼   ► - Right.

00:46:15 ◼   ► - Think we're gonna sit here.

00:46:16 ◼   ► - Right, is it the EU?

00:46:17 ◼   ► - He's in it, you're not, I'm really not.

00:46:19 ◼   ► So it's for our proximity.

00:46:21 ◼   ► - Okay, okay, okay.

00:46:23 ◼   ► So I am, he used to be, you're not.

00:46:25 ◼   ► - Right.

00:46:26 ◼   ► - That's how we, yeah, okay, cool.

00:46:28 ◼   ► - We will judge these on our April 17th episode.

00:46:31 ◼   ► So that's about a month from now.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Two points for each thing we get right.

00:46:35 ◼   ► One point is removed if something is not correct.

00:46:39 ◼   ► How does that sound?

00:46:41 ◼   ► - Two points for each thing you get right.

00:46:43 ◼   ► One point removed if something is not correct.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Okay, so, and these points, what are they useful for?

00:46:48 ◼   ► - Absolutely nothing.

00:46:50 ◼   ► - We'll find out.

00:46:51 ◼   ► - No, I don't.

00:46:52 ◼   ► - Something will happen between now and then.

00:46:53 ◼   ► - They will.

00:46:54 ◼   ► - Yeah, it will come up with something.

00:46:55 ◼   ► - They will be useful for something, okay.

00:46:57 ◼   ► - This is like a modified version of Ricky rules, right?

00:47:01 ◼   ► Is what we're doing here.

00:47:02 ◼   ► - I mean, kind of.

00:47:03 ◼   ► - Two points, but also a reduction point

00:47:05 ◼   ► if you don't get something correct.

00:47:06 ◼   ► So it's like, it is.

00:47:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's something though.

00:47:09 ◼   ► It's the, I have a name for it.

00:47:13 ◼   ► Are you ready for this?

00:47:14 ◼   ► - Please do what I want you to do.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - The EUE's.

00:47:16 ◼   ► - Oh, that's not what I thought, but I love it.

00:47:20 ◼   ► - What do you think I was gonna say?

00:47:21 ◼   ► - I was gonna say Ricky with a U in it.

00:47:23 ◼   ► Ricky U.

00:47:26 ◼   ► - Oh, like EU, but Ricky.

00:47:28 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:29 ◼   ► - I like the EUE's.

00:47:31 ◼   ► - With EUE's?

00:47:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I like that too.

00:47:32 ◼   ► That's much better, the EUE's.

00:47:34 ◼   ► - Uh-huh, so we each have a couple of picks here.

00:47:39 ◼   ► We'll grade them in a month.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Federico as a citizen of the European union.

00:47:46 ◼   ► Do you think of yourself as that way?

00:47:48 ◼   ► Or do you just think, you know.

00:47:48 ◼   ► - Yes, absolutely.

00:47:50 ◼   ► I am.

00:47:50 ◼   ► - Do you?

00:47:52 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:53 ◼   ► - Okay, do you think of yourself

00:47:54 ◼   ► as European before Italian?

00:47:56 ◼   ► - No, but obviously I am Italian,

00:48:00 ◼   ► but I am a very, very, very strong proponent

00:48:05 ◼   ► of the European union as a concept, yes.

00:48:08 ◼   ► - Okay, that was how I always felt, right?

00:48:10 ◼   ► Like I felt like I was British before I was European,

00:48:13 ◼   ► but I was very in favor of the European union.

00:48:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm Italian, but I'm very much in favor

00:48:19 ◼   ► of the EU, yes.

00:48:21 ◼   ► So I get to go first, right, in these rounds.

00:48:25 ◼   ► - I also, as the most in favor.

00:48:27 ◼   ► - As the most in favor, most in favor.

00:48:32 ◼   ► So round one, my pick is the core technology fee

00:48:35 ◼   ► is considerably altered, especially for web distribution.

00:48:40 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:48:41 ◼   ► - I really think this fee is gonna get changed,

00:48:46 ◼   ► especially now that you get to release apps

00:48:49 ◼   ► on a website, because then, even with the app marketplaces,

00:48:54 ◼   ► like that whole idea of, well, it used to be,

00:48:58 ◼   ► the discourse online used to be that,

00:49:00 ◼   ► oh, but developers need to pay a fee

00:49:02 ◼   ► because Apple takes care of all the costs

00:49:04 ◼   ► with the App Store and distribution and everything.

00:49:07 ◼   ► Now, that concept was removed

00:49:09 ◼   ► with the alternative marketplaces,

00:49:11 ◼   ► and now even more so with just,

00:49:13 ◼   ► a developer can put an app on a website

00:49:15 ◼   ► and you can install that app on your device from a website.

00:49:18 ◼   ► So I think that core technology fee

00:49:20 ◼   ► doesn't scale to free apps,

00:49:22 ◼   ► doesn't scale for a lot of factors.

00:49:24 ◼   ► I think it's a silly idea,

00:49:26 ◼   ► because otherwise Apple would have done it

00:49:28 ◼   ► on the Mac years ago.

00:49:29 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like you need to pay something to anybody

00:49:33 ◼   ► if you wanna put out a Mac app for free on your website,

00:49:35 ◼   ► and it should be the same on a phone.

00:49:37 ◼   ► So the CTF is considerably altered,

00:49:40 ◼   ► especially for web distribution.

00:49:42 ◼   ► That's my pick.

00:49:44 ◼   ► - That's a good pick.

00:49:45 ◼   ► I have some stuff I wanna say in the CTF later on,

00:49:47 ◼   ► so I'm gonna hold my thoughts on it for now.

00:49:49 ◼   ► But I do, again, it's this thing, right?

00:49:52 ◼   ► As you say, the cost, now, before it was distribution,

00:49:56 ◼   ► and now they're like, oh, now it's because of APIs.

00:50:01 ◼   ► The APIs are expensive. - Sure.

00:50:03 ◼   ► - Even though, as we noted earlier, Spotify pays nothing,

00:50:06 ◼   ► and they use the APIs. - Nothing, nothing.

00:50:08 ◼   ► - And they're able to pay. - They pay nothing.

00:50:10 ◼   ► Nothing, so.

00:50:11 ◼   ► Mike, you're up.

00:50:15 ◼   ► - The idea of member of good standing,

00:50:18 ◼   ► that language is removed.

00:50:20 ◼   ► I don't think this can pass, Musta.

00:50:23 ◼   ► Like, I think they've already gotten themselves in trouble

00:50:27 ◼   ► because the member of good standing idea

00:50:29 ◼   ► is exactly what they threw at Epic,

00:50:31 ◼   ► and that was immediately gotten rid of, right?

00:50:34 ◼   ► - That's the equivalent of if we like you.

00:50:36 ◼   ► - If we like you, that is 100% what it means.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Like, there is nothing, because do you wanna know

00:50:42 ◼   ► who is not a member of good standing?

00:50:44 ◼   ► Epic, they are the example of a member not in good standing,

00:50:49 ◼   ► because they did something that nobody else

00:50:51 ◼   ► has ever done before at such a grand scale, right?

00:50:54 ◼   ► Where they put one of the most popular apps

00:50:57 ◼   ► in the App Store, they snuck in like a Trojan horse,

00:51:00 ◼   ► and then they had an entire advertising campaign

00:51:02 ◼   ► making fun of Apple, ready to go, right?

00:51:04 ◼   ► Like, if you want, who is a member of bad standing?

00:51:08 ◼   ► Epic's a member of bad standing.

00:51:10 ◼   ► But they were able to get back in to this program again.

00:51:13 ◼   ► So the member of good standing thing,

00:51:17 ◼   ► I don't even think you can legally argue this, right?

00:51:20 ◼   ► And also it is essentially saying, as Federico said,

00:51:23 ◼   ► if we like you.

00:51:24 ◼   ► And so I just, I can't understand

00:51:28 ◼   ► how something like this could even be enforced,

00:51:32 ◼   ► and so I just think that they're gonna have to get rid of it.

00:51:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, it's very hard to codify into law

00:51:40 ◼   ► the idea of good and evil, you know?

00:51:43 ◼   ► And here, Apple is literally asking the EU to say,

00:51:46 ◼   ► hey, we wanna codify good as an idea

00:51:51 ◼   ► to qualify for this program.

00:51:53 ◼   ► What does it even mean, you know?

00:51:54 ◼   ► What's good for you, what does it even mean?

00:51:57 ◼   ► So yeah, I think you will get these two points, Mike.

00:52:00 ◼   ► - 'Cause this is also like,

00:52:01 ◼   ► this has only just started appearing

00:52:03 ◼   ► in like the last week, this idea,

00:52:05 ◼   ► this like member of good standing thing.

00:52:07 ◼   ► And so like, this is the latest thing

00:52:09 ◼   ► where they're gonna be told, no, you can't do that.

00:52:11 ◼   ► 'Cause it just hasn't been around enough,

00:52:13 ◼   ► long enough for it to be taken away from them yet.

00:52:16 ◼   ► - You gotta give it a couple of weeks.

00:52:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:52:22 ◼   ► - Oh, that's a good one.

00:52:23 ◼   ► That language has bothered me since it showed up,

00:52:25 ◼   ► 'cause it doesn't mean anything.

00:52:27 ◼   ► It's not a thing.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Okay, mine has to do with one of the changes this week,

00:52:36 ◼   ► where Apple is letting people do their own layouts

00:52:40 ◼   ► for links and promotions,

00:52:41 ◼   ► but you still have to go through the scare sheets.

00:52:43 ◼   ► And I think that those two could become optional.

00:52:47 ◼   ► So right now, there are two of them.

00:52:50 ◼   ► One says this app doesn't support

00:52:52 ◼   ► the AppSource private and secure payment system.

00:52:54 ◼   ► That's if you're using your own payment processing.

00:52:58 ◼   ► And then the other one,

00:52:58 ◼   ► if you're linking out to the web for purchase,

00:53:01 ◼   ► you're about to go to an external website.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Apple is not responsible for the privacy

00:53:04 ◼   ► or security of purchases made on the web.

00:53:07 ◼   ► You know, big font, big scary typeface.

00:53:10 ◼   ► I think that this is like,

00:53:16 ◼   ► it's more like anti-steering stuff.

00:53:18 ◼   ► It's kind of how it feels, at least lightly,

00:53:22 ◼   ► trying to keep people in the app.

00:53:24 ◼   ► - Some light steering.

00:53:26 ◼   ► - Light steering.

00:53:28 ◼   ► - Just a gentle curve.

00:53:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:53:32 ◼   ► - It may not legally be anti-steering,

00:53:34 ◼   ► but I think it's the same effect.

00:53:37 ◼   ► - For some reason, we jokingly call them scare sheets, right?

00:53:41 ◼   ► So I think you're right.

00:53:42 ◼   ► It is without doing the actual locking off steering

00:53:47 ◼   ► that they do, they are trying to get people

00:53:51 ◼   ► not to do the thing by telling them to go back, you know?

00:53:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's my round one pick.

00:54:01 ◼   ► - So you think that they're essentially,

00:54:04 ◼   ► they won't be able to,

00:54:05 ◼   ► or they won't be enforcing the idea of having these.

00:54:08 ◼   ► So if you want to link out, it's up to you if you use them.

00:54:11 ◼   ► And so you can just press the button and go.

00:54:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so.

00:54:15 ◼   ► - I would like this.

00:54:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:54:17 ◼   ► - But I think that that was bold.

00:54:19 ◼   ► That's a bold one.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:54:21 ◼   ► - I think they will fight this one pretty hard.

00:54:24 ◼   ► - Probably, but at the same time,

00:54:27 ◼   ► I don't know how much fighting Apple can do

00:54:30 ◼   ► on any of this at this point.

00:54:31 ◼   ► - Very good point, very good point.

00:54:33 ◼   ► Before we start with round two,

00:54:35 ◼   ► can we just take a second to appreciate the fact

00:54:38 ◼   ► that we are literally playing a game

00:54:40 ◼   ► about regulation in the EU and what Apple is going to do.

00:54:43 ◼   ► And we established a point system for this.

00:54:46 ◼   ► Like, it's like, I just appreciate, you know,

00:54:50 ◼   ► what we do here and how silly we can get

00:54:53 ◼   ► about something that is so boring.

00:54:55 ◼   ► - We've turned regulation into a game.

00:54:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, it came to me when we were chatting

00:55:02 ◼   ► and I messaged yesterday.

00:55:03 ◼   ► - Thank you, thank you.

00:55:04 ◼   ► - Very good, very good.

00:55:05 ◼   ► - So that being said, my first pick for round two

00:55:08 ◼   ► is Phil Schiller is replaced as the head of the initiative.

00:55:11 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:55:12 ◼   ► - This is a bold one.

00:55:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:55:15 ◼   ► Look, so I like Phil Schiller.

00:55:20 ◼   ► I have met Phil Schiller.

00:55:22 ◼   ► I have spoken to Phil Schiller.

00:55:25 ◼   ► I think he's done, obviously over the years,

00:55:29 ◼   ► a ton of good things for the App Store.

00:55:31 ◼   ► You know, the whole subscription initiative

00:55:32 ◼   ► and all of that.

00:55:33 ◼   ► But my problem now is that I think Apple needs a person

00:55:38 ◼   ► with a stronger hold of European views and values.

00:55:44 ◼   ► I think putting an American person

00:55:52 ◼   ► for as much as it can be knowledgeable here

00:55:56 ◼   ► about the EU and the DMA and the App Store,

00:56:00 ◼   ► I feel like Apple probably needs somebody

00:56:04 ◼   ► with different sensibilities

00:56:06 ◼   ► when it comes to dealing with the European government.

00:56:10 ◼   ► - Because, you know, you've just opened my eyes

00:56:12 ◼   ► to something that like, you know,

00:56:15 ◼   ► people have been talking about this.

00:56:16 ◼   ► I've been seeing people talk about this.

00:56:18 ◼   ► But I think you can remove Phil from this argument.

00:56:23 ◼   ► Like the issue they may be having is

00:56:27 ◼   ► the European Commission just have a disdain

00:56:29 ◼   ► for the Americans, right?

00:56:30 ◼   ► Like you could just say that as like a starting point

00:56:32 ◼   ► where it's like, they would maybe have better conversations

00:56:36 ◼   ► with someone from Europe where like we're coming

00:56:39 ◼   ► to the table as Europeans to have this discussion

00:56:43 ◼   ► as opposed to the Americans coming in

00:56:45 ◼   ► to talk to the Europeans.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Like that is just a bad starting point

00:56:48 ◼   ► for these kinds of negotiations, I'm sure.

00:56:50 ◼   ► That's a really good point, Federico.

00:56:52 ◼   ► - That is exactly what I was driving at.

00:56:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they need a new public face

00:56:59 ◼   ► to drive this whole quest toward respecting

00:57:04 ◼   ► and implementing the DMA.

00:57:07 ◼   ► And to have someone who maybe comes with a background

00:57:11 ◼   ► in the European Parliament or just somebody

00:57:13 ◼   ► who's used to lobbying with EU regulators,

00:57:16 ◼   ► I think that would be a better starting point

00:57:19 ◼   ► than putting the person who used to work for Steve Jobs

00:57:22 ◼   ► with a very American-centric point of view

00:57:25 ◼   ► in charge of this whole process.

00:57:27 ◼   ► So yeah, that's my pick.

00:57:30 ◼   ► - I like it, I like it a lot.

00:57:32 ◼   ► - It's good.

00:57:33 ◼   ► There was a story at the end of the month

00:57:35 ◼   ► that Apple was hiring away a deputy assistant to Joe Biden,

00:57:40 ◼   ► Olivia Dalton, I think she worked for like two decades

00:57:43 ◼   ► and in communication.

00:57:44 ◼   ► I don't know if she would take this over

00:57:45 ◼   ► 'cause I think you're right that someone like,

00:57:50 ◼   ► she's more American than Phil Schiller.

00:57:51 ◼   ► Like she worked for the federal government for a long time.

00:57:53 ◼   ► - My bet on her is she is being brought in

00:57:56 ◼   ► to get ready for when the Americans

00:57:58 ◼   ► try and do something like this.

00:57:59 ◼   ► - Maybe so, yeah.

00:58:00 ◼   ► - You said this is an upgrade

00:58:01 ◼   ► and I thought that was an excellent point, yes.

00:58:04 ◼   ► - This is the, oh, this has gone so badly.

00:58:06 ◼   ► We need to not, we need this to go not so badly

00:58:09 ◼   ► when it happens on our home turf

00:58:11 ◼   ► because we can't argue so much.

00:58:13 ◼   ► - They could have put a European in charge of in the US.

00:58:17 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:19 ◼   ► - It's like, we know how to do it.

00:58:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I'm not the new head of the app store, eh?

00:58:24 ◼   ► I'm not gonna talk to Joe Biden.

00:58:27 ◼   ► - President Biden.

00:58:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:30 ◼   ► I have a recommendation.

00:58:32 ◼   ► - Oh yes, my president.

00:58:35 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:37 ◼   ► - Oh boy.

00:58:40 ◼   ► - All right, my second pick

00:58:42 ◼   ► is that the core technology fee is removed

00:58:45 ◼   ► for fully free applications.

00:58:47 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:58:49 ◼   ► - Now here's the thing, right?

00:58:51 ◼   ► Fully free, you cannot make money, right?

00:58:55 ◼   ► Like this is what I actually believe too.

00:58:57 ◼   ► Like if you, I said this before,

00:58:59 ◼   ► like if you're a company and you have an advertising model

00:59:02 ◼   ► and like Apple's telling you you need to pay them,

00:59:04 ◼   ► you just need to pay them, right?

00:59:06 ◼   ► Like that should, if you wanna do the business

00:59:08 ◼   ► with the way they wanna do it, fine.

00:59:10 ◼   ► But I do think if you are an application

00:59:13 ◼   ► that is completely free, has no intention of making money,

00:59:17 ◼   ► you shouldn't need to pay the core technology fee.

00:59:19 ◼   ► It doesn't make any sense, right?

00:59:21 ◼   ► Like, and then you should be able to benefit

00:59:24 ◼   ► for everything you want.

00:59:25 ◼   ► Now, as Zach is saying in the Discord,

00:59:28 ◼   ► this would be very hard to police developers

00:59:31 ◼   ► outside the store.

00:59:32 ◼   ► This is hard anyway, because a lot of the stuff

00:59:35 ◼   ► you have to provide accounting to Apple.

00:59:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, they do have, for some types of purchases outside,

00:59:44 ◼   ► there is, there are some like API things

00:59:46 ◼   ► that you can tie back into.

00:59:48 ◼   ► It's not like you're just sending a CSV over to Apple,

00:59:51 ◼   ► but it is extremely difficult, I think.

00:59:54 ◼   ► - Yes, like a lot of the weird carve out rules

00:59:57 ◼   ► that Apple's been doing in all different kinds of countries

01:00:00 ◼   ► and jurisdictions require like,

01:00:03 ◼   ► you have to kind of pledge a blood oath to Apple

01:00:06 ◼   ► that you'll be truthful to them

01:00:07 ◼   ► and they can audit you whenever they want.

01:00:09 ◼   ► And so like maybe they would just do a similar thing, right?

01:00:11 ◼   ► If you are completely free, that is totally fine,

01:00:14 ◼   ► but if we audit you and we find out you're making money,

01:00:17 ◼   ► you owe us all the money.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And that that, in theory, should be enough.

01:00:21 ◼   ► It's the same as like taxation law, right?

01:00:23 ◼   ► Like just in general, like a lot of the way

01:00:25 ◼   ► that taxation law is, is like,

01:00:27 ◼   ► you're gonna be honest about your taxes

01:00:29 ◼   ► because we could audit you and then you're in big trouble.

01:00:32 ◼   ► And I could just imagine trying to do something like that.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Because I think it's going to get really complicated.

01:00:39 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

01:00:40 ◼   ► I mean, I'm sure there is a way,

01:00:41 ◼   ► but like if you distribute your app via the web,

01:00:45 ◼   ► do they even know how many people have downloaded it?

01:00:48 ◼   ► - I'd imagine that there's, I don't know this,

01:00:51 ◼   ► but I would imagine there's some mechanism.

01:00:53 ◼   ► - Some kind of call.

01:00:54 ◼   ► - In the installing process that they create a note.

01:00:58 ◼   ► - Yes, and they could check

01:00:59 ◼   ► because the app needs to be notarized, right?

01:01:02 ◼   ► So they could always check like how many hits

01:01:04 ◼   ► to the Apple servers for notarization they get

01:01:07 ◼   ► and infer how many active insults there are.

01:01:11 ◼   ► - But nevertheless, I'm not saying

01:01:13 ◼   ► I think this is necessarily gonna happen.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I think it should.

01:01:16 ◼   ► I think they would save themselves so much heat

01:01:21 ◼   ► if they removed this for applications

01:01:23 ◼   ► that were completely free.

01:01:25 ◼   ► And at the end of the day,

01:01:26 ◼   ► for applications that make money,

01:01:28 ◼   ► whether you make a lot of money

01:01:29 ◼   ► or not a lot of money or whatever,

01:01:31 ◼   ► you kind of just have to get on board with the fact

01:01:33 ◼   ► that like this business that you're in business with

01:01:35 ◼   ► is telling you these are the terms

01:01:36 ◼   ► of being in business with this business.

01:01:38 ◼   ► And if everyone's making some element of money,

01:01:40 ◼   ► like we just have to all get on with it.

01:01:43 ◼   ► But it's very complicated for me for them to say

01:01:45 ◼   ► that like for you to distribute a free application

01:01:50 ◼   ► inside of the European Union,

01:01:52 ◼   ► if it's a very popular free application,

01:01:54 ◼   ► you should give us money.

01:01:56 ◼   ► But there's like a line of popularity.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Like it's just very complicated.

01:01:59 ◼   ► And I would just feel happier if they did this.

01:02:01 ◼   ► But I don't think they will.

01:02:04 ◼   ► I mean, what is more likely is what Federico said,

01:02:06 ◼   ► that it's considerably altered

01:02:08 ◼   ► or just like removed completely.

01:02:11 ◼   ► But I'm thinking Apple will try everything they can for that

01:02:14 ◼   ► and the fully free apps that have CTF removed.

01:02:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's a good one.

01:02:19 ◼   ► I think it's weird the way the CTF

01:02:24 ◼   ► is applied evenly to everything

01:02:28 ◼   ► if you're at that threshold.

01:02:30 ◼   ► If you have a free app in the App Store,

01:02:32 ◼   ► you don't charge anything at all, it's free to you.

01:02:36 ◼   ► So why should it be?

01:02:37 ◼   ► - So why is that then?

01:02:38 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a really good point.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Like how does that work then for these bunch of freeloaders

01:02:43 ◼   ► in the regular App Store?

01:02:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, interesting.

01:02:49 ◼   ► Okay, my final one is changes to rules

01:02:54 ◼   ► about apps being installed from an alternative source.

01:02:59 ◼   ► So this is a little bit related to that question

01:03:00 ◼   ► about how do they know what's out there,

01:03:02 ◼   ► what's being installed?

01:03:03 ◼   ► So the current language, I wanna read this to you.

01:03:07 ◼   ► We want the app experience to remain as intuitive

01:03:09 ◼   ► as possible for both users and developers.

01:03:12 ◼   ► That's why developers will submit a single binary

01:03:14 ◼   ► of their app for distribution across channels,

01:03:17 ◼   ► including the App Store or an alternative app marketplace.

01:03:21 ◼   ► An app may only be installed

01:03:23 ◼   ► from one distribution channel at a time

01:03:25 ◼   ► to download a previously installed app from a new channel,

01:03:28 ◼   ► the user must delete the app

01:03:29 ◼   ► and reinstall it from a new marketplace.

01:03:32 ◼   ► So say that I'm in the EU, I have Instagram on my phone,

01:03:36 ◼   ► and it's from the App Store, it's from the pre-DMA, right?

01:03:40 ◼   ► I installed it long ago, but now for whatever reason,

01:03:44 ◼   ► I wanna download Instagram through the meta app marketplace,

01:03:48 ◼   ► assuming they do one.

01:03:49 ◼   ► I have to, I can't just go to metas store or website

01:03:55 ◼   ► and download it and it overwrite what's on my phone.

01:03:59 ◼   ► I have to delete it from my phone.

01:04:01 ◼   ► Now with Instagram, this is an issue,

01:04:03 ◼   ► but in a lot of apps, you would risk data loss at this point,

01:04:07 ◼   ► and then I have to reinstall it.

01:04:10 ◼   ► That's a bad user experience.

01:04:14 ◼   ► It risks data loss, like I said,

01:04:17 ◼   ► and it just seems like a hurdle that doesn't,

01:04:21 ◼   ► I don't know the technical reason for that hurdle,

01:04:25 ◼   ► and it seems like something

01:04:26 ◼   ► that could be brought back to earth.

01:04:28 ◼   ► - What are you actually saying, though?

01:04:32 ◼   ► That they're gonna do what?

01:04:33 ◼   ► - Well, that they would have a change

01:04:35 ◼   ► where if I have an App Store app installed

01:04:37 ◼   ► and I want a new version of that app from somewhere else,

01:04:41 ◼   ► I can install over it in place,

01:04:43 ◼   ► like an App Store does now, or I'm not losing data.

01:04:46 ◼   ► - You no longer need to delete an application, basically,

01:04:49 ◼   ► is what you're suggesting.

01:04:51 ◼   ► Okay. - Yeah.

01:04:52 ◼   ► - That seems, I do wonder about that one,

01:04:55 ◼   ► if it's like, they just can't do it,

01:04:57 ◼   ► 'cause it has to be treated as a separate app.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Like, I've wondered about that idea,

01:05:01 ◼   ► but who knows?

01:05:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, I get that, and yeah, that may be the case,

01:05:06 ◼   ► but Apple made the whole system.

01:05:07 ◼   ► Like, I'm sure they can figure it out if they have to.

01:05:09 ◼   ► - You know what, yeah?

01:05:11 ◼   ► Well, it's like, it works with TestFlight, right?

01:05:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can go back and forth

01:05:14 ◼   ► with TestFlight and the App Store all day long.

01:05:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, so why should it not work like this?

01:05:18 ◼   ► It's like, yeah, it's a good point.

01:05:20 ◼   ► They make the decisions.

01:05:21 ◼   ► They're God in this scenario, right?

01:05:23 ◼   ► Like, they draw out these things.

01:05:24 ◼   ► They don't happen naturally.

01:05:26 ◼   ► It's all the sense of rules and technology, right?

01:05:29 ◼   ► And so they have the ability to change anything.

01:05:32 ◼   ► On that thing about, like, apps and updates and stuff,

01:05:34 ◼   ► did you see the thing about, like,

01:05:37 ◼   ► what happens if you leave Europe?

01:05:39 ◼   ► - The app stops working after a while, right?

01:05:42 ◼   ► - After 30 days, you don't get updates anymore.

01:05:44 ◼   ► - Wow.

01:05:45 ◼   ► That's incredible.

01:05:48 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:49 ◼   ► - So spiteful.

01:05:51 ◼   ► That's what kills me about all this,

01:05:53 ◼   ► just the attitude problem.

01:05:54 ◼   ► - I just think these are the kinds of things

01:05:57 ◼   ► that, like, we shouldn't be seeing, you know?

01:06:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:06:01 ◼   ► - This is, in a way, it feels like too,

01:06:06 ◼   ► well, not in a way, it's two very large institutions

01:06:09 ◼   ► smashing into each other, right?

01:06:12 ◼   ► And all these pieces are flying off left, right, and center,

01:06:15 ◼   ► and we're picking them up and seeing what it's all about.

01:06:18 ◼   ► We shouldn't really see this stuff,

01:06:21 ◼   ► but I actually think that this is part of

01:06:25 ◼   ► the reason in which the European Union chooses its,

01:06:29 ◼   ► I think, peculiar way of putting laws into place, right,

01:06:32 ◼   ► which is like, we won't tell you what to do.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Like, exactly, you have to do it,

01:06:37 ◼   ► and then we'll tell you if it was right or not.

01:06:39 ◼   ► And I think part of the advantage of doing that

01:06:42 ◼   ► is we see stuff like this happen.

01:06:43 ◼   ► And I think it ingratiates people towards

01:06:47 ◼   ► the rule-making of the European Union,

01:06:49 ◼   ► because we have to sit and watch

01:06:52 ◼   ► as these companies try and flail around

01:06:55 ◼   ► and look stupid in the process.

01:06:57 ◼   ► Smart move.

01:07:00 ◼   ► - Good times.

01:07:01 ◼   ► So we'll check back in in a month,

01:07:04 ◼   ► and we'll see where things are.

01:07:06 ◼   ► Look how much changed over the last 10 days.

01:07:08 ◼   ► It could be a whole new world.

01:07:10 ◼   ► - Any and all of this could change.

01:07:13 ◼   ► Maybe Apple just leaves the European Union, yeah?

01:07:16 ◼   ► Federico, do you ever worry about that?

01:07:19 ◼   ► - No, it seems impossible.

01:07:21 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, no, how can you leave the European Union, you know?

01:07:25 ◼   ► It's never gonna happen. - Okay, the argument,

01:07:30 ◼   ► the argument is the fines could be so large

01:07:35 ◼   ► that at a certain point, you will lose more money

01:07:40 ◼   ► than you could possibly make.

01:07:41 ◼   ► - But it's more than just about the bottom line.

01:07:44 ◼   ► If you pull out of EU, your stock will take a huge hit,

01:07:49 ◼   ► because it's all future possible revenue and growth

01:07:52 ◼   ► in that area is gone.

01:07:53 ◼   ► - If Apple seriously considers dropping the EU as a market,

01:07:58 ◼   ► Tim Cook will be immediately replaced.

01:08:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:08:01 ◼   ► - It seems impossible to consider as an option.

01:08:04 ◼   ► - I don't think any of these things

01:08:06 ◼   ► are necessarily possible.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I'm just playing this out a little bit here.

01:08:09 ◼   ► What if the argument to Wall Street was quite simply,

01:08:12 ◼   ► we cannot comply with their laws,

01:08:14 ◼   ► we will be saving $10 billion over the next five years?

01:08:18 ◼   ► Like, the cost savings is all Wall Street cares about.

01:08:21 ◼   ► They don't care about anything else.

01:08:22 ◼   ► - I think the other problem is, it is in the EU now,

01:08:26 ◼   ► this is coming for Apple and other places.

01:08:28 ◼   ► And they can't open that door,

01:08:32 ◼   ► 'cause then the only country you're left in is China,

01:08:36 ◼   ► and they don't wanna be there.

01:08:37 ◼   ► - And Apple would face the potential issue

01:08:40 ◼   ► of firing thousands of people who work in Europe,

01:08:45 ◼   ► in retail stores, in offices, in the supply chain.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Thousands, dozens of thousands.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I don't even know how many Apple people work in Europe.

01:08:54 ◼   ► - I don't think this is a possibility,

01:08:55 ◼   ► but it's just a question.

01:08:57 ◼   ► It's just something I think about you

01:08:59 ◼   ► when I hear people talk about this stuff,

01:09:01 ◼   ► 'cause obviously, everyone I know,

01:09:03 ◼   ► it would affect you the most.

01:09:05 ◼   ► But it's just a thought, right?

01:09:08 ◼   ► It is not impossible, but it is incredibly unlikely.

01:09:14 ◼   ► So many terrible things would have to happen

01:09:16 ◼   ► before that would even be entertained, right?

01:09:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:09:20 ◼   ► - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Ecamm.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Ecamm Live is the leading video production

01:09:27 ◼   ► and live streaming studio built for the Mac.

01:09:30 ◼   ► Ecamm does all aspects of video, not just live streaming.

01:09:34 ◼   ► It's perfect for simplifying your workflow.

01:09:36 ◼   ► And it's easy enough to get started quickly,

01:09:39 ◼   ► but powerful enough that you can create

01:09:41 ◼   ► just about anything with video.

01:09:43 ◼   ► You can do it all with the Ecamm app.

01:09:45 ◼   ► And I love how built into macOS it is.

01:09:48 ◼   ► You get to use all of the features of your Mac,

01:09:51 ◼   ► window layering, you can use multiple cameras,

01:09:54 ◼   ► all sorts of stuff all built in.

01:09:56 ◼   ► So whether you're streaming, recording, podcasting,

01:09:58 ◼   ► and presenting, everything you need is in Ecamm,

01:10:01 ◼   ► including support for multiple cameras and screen sharing,

01:10:04 ◼   ► complete with a live camera switcher

01:10:07 ◼   ► that lets you direct the show in real time.

01:10:09 ◼   ► Ecamm lets you stand out from the crowd

01:10:12 ◼   ► with high quality video, add logos, titles,

01:10:15 ◼   ► lower thirds, graphics, share your screen,

01:10:17 ◼   ► drop in video clips, bring on interview guests,

01:10:20 ◼   ► use a green screen, and so much more.

01:10:23 ◼   ► Their members are entrepreneurs, marketing professionals,

01:10:26 ◼   ► podcasters, educators, musicians, church leaders,

01:10:30 ◼   ► bloggers, and content creators of all kinds.

01:10:33 ◼   ► Get one month free today at ecamm.com/connected

01:10:37 ◼   ► using the code connected.

01:10:39 ◼   ► That's one whole month free at ecamm.com,

01:10:42 ◼   ► E-C-A-M-M, ecamm.com/connected.

01:10:47 ◼   ► Go there now to check it out.

01:10:49 ◼   ► Our thanks to Ecamm for their support of the show

01:10:52 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

01:10:53 ◼   ► - Let's talk about something different.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Let's talk about the Vision Pros.

01:10:59 ◼   ► So we've had our Vision Pros for like,

01:11:02 ◼   ► is it two months now?

01:11:03 ◼   ► - No, a month. - Is it a month?

01:11:04 ◼   ► A month. - A month and 10 days.

01:11:07 ◼   ► And I wanted to kind of check in

01:11:09 ◼   ► about our current experiences.

01:11:11 ◼   ► I wanted to just jump in first and give mine

01:11:15 ◼   ► and then we can, you know, maybe go around the horn.

01:11:18 ◼   ► I've been having, I don't know, the longer I use it,

01:11:19 ◼   ► the more weird things I run into, right?

01:11:22 ◼   ► I just think it's natural.

01:11:24 ◼   ► - This is also my feedback here.

01:11:26 ◼   ► The more I use it, the more I run into weird issues, yes.

01:11:28 ◼   ► - And so like I've experienced things

01:11:30 ◼   ► that I've seen other people say,

01:11:31 ◼   ► like I've had, I've had environments tearing

01:11:36 ◼   ► and like there's just like blackness

01:11:38 ◼   ► is what it's replaced with.

01:11:40 ◼   ► I've had jitteriness and stuff like that.

01:11:42 ◼   ► But the biggest issue that I've had consistently

01:11:45 ◼   ► is eye tracking issues.

01:11:46 ◼   ► - Yes, same here.

01:11:48 ◼   ► - Where I'm trying to do something

01:11:50 ◼   ► and no matter what I do,

01:11:52 ◼   ► I can't seem to look at what I need.

01:11:56 ◼   ► And I will say the thing that I have been able

01:11:58 ◼   ► to nail down here, which does fill me

01:12:01 ◼   ► with an element of positivity,

01:12:03 ◼   ► the majority of issues that I have are with compatible apps,

01:12:06 ◼   ► like iPad apps that run on Vision Pro.

01:12:09 ◼   ► The reason I say that is I feel like

01:12:12 ◼   ► it's as more and more apps for Vision Pro exist,

01:12:14 ◼   ► maybe this problem is lessened

01:12:16 ◼   ► and or there are maybe things that can be done

01:12:19 ◼   ► to try and make this better.

01:12:20 ◼   ► And I do feel that in general

01:12:22 ◼   ► that like this is a version one product,

01:12:25 ◼   ► the eye tracking kind of should go wrong sometimes,

01:12:27 ◼   ► if that makes sense.

01:12:28 ◼   ► I think it's the most complicated part.

01:12:31 ◼   ► It feels like the thing that has the potential

01:12:33 ◼   ► to be fixed to, right?

01:12:37 ◼   ► It's like the way they use the data

01:12:39 ◼   ► that comes from the sensors

01:12:40 ◼   ► to interpolate where I'm looking.

01:12:42 ◼   ► I have noticed in my experience that if I'm having trouble

01:12:46 ◼   ► and I run the setup process again, it will fix it for me.

01:12:51 ◼   ► But I don't know what it is that causes the problem.

01:12:54 ◼   ► But it's the most consistent issue that I've had

01:12:58 ◼   ► is that my eye tracking gets a bit weird sometimes.

01:13:01 ◼   ► And then just a general frustration I have

01:13:03 ◼   ► is that the standby battery is so bad, it's so bad.

01:13:07 ◼   ► I don't leave mine plugged in

01:13:10 ◼   ► because I'm just not gonna do that.

01:13:12 ◼   ► And so like every day or maybe every day, every two days,

01:13:16 ◼   ► I go to use my Vision Pro

01:13:17 ◼   ► and this battery is completely dead

01:13:20 ◼   ► and I have to plug it in and wait.

01:13:22 ◼   ► So yeah, those are kind of my frustrations.

01:13:26 ◼   ► But overall, I do continue to really enjoy using it.

01:13:31 ◼   ► Like my time with the Vision Pro is very different

01:13:34 ◼   ► to any other computer that I have.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Like the things that I find myself doing

01:13:38 ◼   ► and I find it very enjoyable to use.

01:13:41 ◼   ► Like I had my first experience,

01:13:43 ◼   ► which I'm sure you two have both had already

01:13:45 ◼   ► of like I needed to get some writing done yesterday.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And I was kind of like not being very productive at my Mac.

01:13:53 ◼   ► And I went and sat down with my Vision Pro

01:13:55 ◼   ► and I opened Notion and I tuned the environment in

01:14:00 ◼   ► and I was good to go.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Like it gave me that kind of like

01:14:03 ◼   ► different environment feeling

01:14:05 ◼   ► that I know a lot of people benefit from.

01:14:07 ◼   ► And like that was really nice.

01:14:08 ◼   ► Like that was like, oh yeah,

01:14:09 ◼   ► like this is like a great use of this product.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Plus you could be like, I was in physically

01:14:13 ◼   ► a more comfortable environment,

01:14:15 ◼   ► sitting on the couch rather than sitting on my desk.

01:14:16 ◼   ► Like it helped that kind of mode shift

01:14:19 ◼   ► that I needed to get that work done.

01:14:21 ◼   ► So yeah, I would say like overall,

01:14:23 ◼   ► I do continue to have very positive experiences of it,

01:14:27 ◼   ► but now that I've used it for long enough,

01:14:29 ◼   ► I am starting to see more and more weird

01:14:31 ◼   ► and broken things too.

01:14:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Yeah, that would also be my takeaway.

01:14:35 ◼   ► I think it's been a slow ramp up for me

01:14:39 ◼   ► in terms of like using the Vision Pro for work.

01:14:42 ◼   ► Some things that I've noticed,

01:14:43 ◼   ► I am not using environments as much as I thought I would.

01:14:48 ◼   ► It just, it feels isolating enough

01:14:50 ◼   ► to put a thing on your face

01:14:51 ◼   ► and to be in a virtual environment.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Maybe it's the fact that I have dogs at home

01:14:56 ◼   ► and I just, I need to be aware of what they're doing.

01:14:59 ◼   ► So, you know, putting an environment all around me,

01:15:02 ◼   ► it's a cool visual thing,

01:15:05 ◼   ► but I prefer to be fully aware and see my surroundings.

01:15:09 ◼   ► I love putting a bunch of windows around me,

01:15:12 ◼   ► even though there are no multi,

01:15:14 ◼   ► like window management features at all,

01:15:16 ◼   ► I just love the power of it.

01:15:18 ◼   ► The issues that I'm seeing,

01:15:21 ◼   ► the eye tracking, as you mentioned,

01:15:23 ◼   ► like sometimes, and this happens for me,

01:15:24 ◼   ► even with native apps,

01:15:26 ◼   ► I just cannot get, you know,

01:15:27 ◼   ► the Vision OS to highlight what I'm looking at.

01:15:31 ◼   ► And it tends to be elements

01:15:35 ◼   ► high up in my field of view, usually.

01:15:40 ◼   ► So maybe it's something that has to do with my lenses

01:15:43 ◼   ► or maybe it's something that has to do with my eyes.

01:15:45 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:15:46 ◼   ► But I've also been trying,

01:15:47 ◼   ► and this will be an article on Mac stories.

01:15:49 ◼   ► I've been trying all kinds of sort of mods

01:15:54 ◼   ► for the Visual Pro straps.

01:15:58 ◼   ► Did you cut the front of it off?

01:16:01 ◼   ► I, no, no, no, no, no, no.

01:16:03 ◼   ► I had John ship me multiple items from Etsy in the US.

01:16:08 ◼   ► And right now I'm using the...

01:16:10 ◼   ► I believe it's pronounced Etsy.

01:16:12 ◼   ► Etsy, yes.

01:16:14 ◼   ► No, hey, do you want to know?

01:16:16 ◼   ► Hey, hey, get ready, you want to know?

01:16:18 ◼   ► You want to know how the Y is pronounced in Italian?

01:16:22 ◼   ► Yes.

01:16:23 ◼   ► I'm going to give you a small teaser.

01:16:23 ◼   ► Ypsilon, so get ready for that.

01:16:26 ◼   ► What?

01:16:26 ◼   ► Whoa, it's Ypsilon.

01:16:29 ◼   ► I think I'm going to miss next week's show.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Get ready for the Ypsilon, my friend.

01:16:37 ◼   ► So right now I'm using the Solo Top adapter.

01:16:42 ◼   ► So this is a thing that lets you use the Solo strap

01:16:46 ◼   ► in the back of your head,

01:16:47 ◼   ► but also an additional one on the top of your head.

01:16:50 ◼   ► So I'm using two Solo knit straps at the same time,

01:16:54 ◼   ► and it's very comfortable.

01:16:56 ◼   ► But I'm waiting for more adapters to try different options.

01:17:00 ◼   ► But yeah, eye tracking has been a frustration.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And the other thing I wanted to mention,

01:17:04 ◼   ► sometimes when I'm using my Mac with the Vision Pro

01:17:08 ◼   ► for keyboard input, I have this issue where,

01:17:12 ◼   ► and I'm guessing it's because of how I use my hands

01:17:17 ◼   ► in real life, I have my hands on the keyboard.

01:17:22 ◼   ► And because my thumb rests close to my index finger,

01:17:27 ◼   ► VisionOS interprets that as a pinch.

01:17:31 ◼   ► And so sometimes, even though I'm typing,

01:17:34 ◼   ► I'm also accidentally swiping in the UI.

01:17:37 ◼   ► So for example, if I'm typing in Obsidian,

01:17:41 ◼   ► and I'm writing, but sometimes the Obsidian sidebar

01:17:46 ◼   ► comes up from the left side.

01:17:48 ◼   ► And that's because VisionOS thought

01:17:50 ◼   ► that even though I was typing, I was also swiping.

01:17:54 ◼   ► And that gesture invokes the Obsidian sidebar.

01:17:58 ◼   ► And so I think I would like to have some enhancements

01:18:01 ◼   ► in VisionOS, some safeguards,

01:18:03 ◼   ► sort of to assume that if the user is typing,

01:18:06 ◼   ► maybe be less aggressive with seeing that pinch

01:18:12 ◼   ► gesture in front of the cameras.

01:18:15 ◼   ► So yeah, that's something that I would like to see improved.

01:18:17 ◼   ► And yeah, it's been a slow ramp up for sure.

01:18:21 ◼   ► Like trying apps, and it's very early days, right?

01:18:24 ◼   ► So yeah, trying all these utilities, I think-

01:18:28 ◼   ► - So I've had a problem with apps where like,

01:18:30 ◼   ► I'm trying not to buy too many,

01:18:31 ◼   ► because I'm gonna need to rebuy them all soon, right?

01:18:35 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm on my US App Store account.

01:18:38 ◼   ► So like, I haven't really been buying a lot of games,

01:18:41 ◼   ► because I don't wanna buy all these games.

01:18:44 ◼   ► And then in like three months, buy all these games again,

01:18:47 ◼   ► because I'll need to rebuy everything, right?

01:18:51 ◼   ► I'm assuming, if I change App Store account,

01:18:53 ◼   ► which I will be doing.

01:18:56 ◼   ► So like, I'm trying to hold off from some stuff.

01:18:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, the one thing I wanna say for anybody

01:19:01 ◼   ► who's interested in the Solo Top,

01:19:02 ◼   ► which of all the adapters that I've tried so far,

01:19:05 ◼   ► the Solo Top is the best in terms of printing quality.

01:19:08 ◼   ► Like, the plastic feels much better

01:19:10 ◼   ► than what you get from other Etsy adapters.

01:19:13 ◼   ► If you consider going down this route,

01:19:15 ◼   ► I recommend getting a size for the Solo Knit Strap

01:19:20 ◼   ► that you wanna put over, like above,

01:19:23 ◼   ► the one that goes on your head, like above your head.

01:19:26 ◼   ► That one, get it one size smaller than the Solo Knit Strap

01:19:31 ◼   ► you put in the back of your head.

01:19:32 ◼   ► So for example, my main Solo Knit Strap was an M size.

01:19:37 ◼   ► I got the S size for the top of my head.

01:19:40 ◼   ► So, because the M1 was too large, yeah.

01:19:45 ◼   ► - Two quick things.

01:19:48 ◼   ► The Solo Top looks bananas.

01:19:51 ◼   ► This thing is wild.

01:19:55 ◼   ► - The image of it looks like an AI imaginary messed up.

01:20:00 ◼   ► - Yes, it's like it's got too, too many fingers,

01:20:04 ◼   ► you know, like that princess.

01:20:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:20:07 ◼   ► The other thing just to cull the feedback

01:20:12 ◼   ► is that Mike is not able to do family sharing.

01:20:15 ◼   ► No one can do family sharing across regions.

01:20:18 ◼   ► And so your American account and those purchases

01:20:20 ◼   ► you're making 'cause you're using the Legal Vision Pro,

01:20:23 ◼   ► you can't share those with your UK account and vice versa.

01:20:26 ◼   ► - Even though my US account is a part of my family,

01:20:31 ◼   ► purchases and subscriptions do not share.

01:20:35 ◼   ► - Well, okay.

01:20:36 ◼   ► There are some weird asterisks to this.

01:20:38 ◼   ► Some do, some don't, and I couldn't even tell you why.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Like Carrot Weather, that shares.

01:20:45 ◼   ► Apple TV, Apple Music, doesn't.

01:20:47 ◼   ► But also not all third party apps do either.

01:20:50 ◼   ► But also the way in which I did it is a hack.

01:20:53 ◼   ► You cannot invite someone to a family share

01:20:58 ◼   ► via the typical means if they are not in the same country

01:21:02 ◼   ► as you, unless you airdrop that invite.

01:21:06 ◼   ► - Are you kidding me?

01:21:08 ◼   ► - That, I found it on Reddit.

01:21:09 ◼   ► You cannot invite someone, but if you airdrop it, it works.

01:21:13 ◼   ► So the reason I did it is so I still, you know,

01:21:17 ◼   ► I've benefited from all the iCloud stuff, right?

01:21:19 ◼   ► So it's in the iCloud account.

01:21:20 ◼   ► So it has like storage, backups and all that kind of stuff

01:21:25 ◼   ► is on my account.

01:21:26 ◼   ► And there are some things that I benefit from,

01:21:28 ◼   ► but not the stuff that I really wanted,

01:21:29 ◼   ► which was like, I wanted to have my Apple One stuff share,

01:21:32 ◼   ► but that doesn't.

01:21:33 ◼   ► But yeah, it doesn't work.

01:21:35 ◼   ► I wish it did, but it doesn't.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Like purchases don't share either,

01:21:39 ◼   ► like just standard purchases.

01:21:40 ◼   ► Some subscriptions do for some unbeknownst reason to me

01:21:44 ◼   ► with some third party apps, but not all of them.

01:21:47 ◼   ► - Well, there you go.

01:21:48 ◼   ► I guess they use airdrop to like prove that you're together.

01:21:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, but that's not how it works

01:21:54 ◼   ► with regular family sharing, right?

01:21:55 ◼   ► You can just send somebody a text and it works.

01:21:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:21:59 ◼   ► - So I don't know why they do it that way, but they do.

01:22:02 ◼   ► - Can I show you the next thing I'm waiting for?

01:22:05 ◼   ► - Yes. - To arrive?

01:22:07 ◼   ► Okay, so this is gonna get slightly weird, all right?

01:22:09 ◼   ► But- - No way.

01:22:10 ◼   ► - Okay, so check out this link in the Discord.

01:22:13 ◼   ► It's called the Air Cover for Apple Vision Pro.

01:22:17 ◼   ► So this is an adapter that sits in your forehead.

01:22:20 ◼   ► And the idea is that it lets you use the Vision Pro

01:22:22 ◼   ► without the light seal.

01:22:24 ◼   ► So without the extra,

01:22:26 ◼   ► so your eyes are directly in front of the lenses

01:22:31 ◼   ► and you should get a larger field of view

01:22:34 ◼   ► and you shouldn't get the tonal effect.

01:22:37 ◼   ► This company, Infinity One, they've been making Quest Pro

01:22:39 ◼   ► and MetaQuest accessories for a while now.

01:22:42 ◼   ► And yeah, I was able to put in an order today.

01:22:46 ◼   ► I got the restock email.

01:22:47 ◼   ► I put in my order and now it's out of stock again.

01:22:50 ◼   ► - Okay. - So yeah,

01:22:51 ◼   ► this is the other thing I'm waiting for.

01:22:53 ◼   ► - Do you think this guy shaved his head

01:22:55 ◼   ► just to be a model in this photo?

01:22:57 ◼   ► - Do you think you need a shaved head for this?

01:23:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:01 ◼   ► - I mean, your hair doesn't get messed up, you know?

01:23:04 ◼   ► - Okay, fair enough.

01:23:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, it gets messed up anyway, so.