Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Realy FM, this is Connected, episode 458.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by NetSuite, Squarespace and ZocDoc.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley. I am joined by Federico Vatici. Ciao Federico.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Ciao Mike. How are you?

00:00:22 ◼   ► I'm good. I was trying to emulate your energy when you introduced the show.

00:00:27 ◼   ► So that's why I liked it. Because it was like, yes.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I was aiming for how you're like, very like, hey, we're here, we're a podcast and there's nothing you can do about it.

00:00:35 ◼   ► That's kind of the energy.

00:00:36 ◼   ► It's like the beginning of the show, the beginning of the show should have the same feeling of you being like at the train station,

00:00:41 ◼   ► just sort of staring straight ahead and then a high speed train passes.

00:00:47 ◼   ► Okay, I didn't know what the word is.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Zoom. It's like from, you know. From Realy FM.

00:00:53 ◼   ► It's like it goes past you, but you get swept up and you're on the train.

00:00:57 ◼   ► You didn't even want to be on the train, but you're on it.

00:00:58 ◼   ► You sort of fly, you know. Yes.

00:01:01 ◼   ► We're also joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello, Stephen.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Conductor. Conductor Hackett.

00:01:05 ◼   ► Choo choo!

00:01:10 ◼   ► I feel I think the conductor has an announcement for the passengers.

00:01:14 ◼   ► I do.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Dear passengers, this is the final warning call for the 2024 Apple History Wall Calendar.

00:01:23 ◼   ► If you were looking for the Apple History Wall Calendar for 2024, please exit at the next stop.

00:01:30 ◼   ► Next stop, give me your money. Right?

00:01:34 ◼   ► Next stop, money back station.

00:01:36 ◼   ► I feel like I want to break out of the show for a second to just...

00:01:41 ◼   ► I think people need to understand that absolutely zero of that was planned and that the three of us are podcast geniuses.

00:01:49 ◼   ► None of this was planned.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Stephen, and I've got to seriously take my hat off to you there.

00:01:55 ◼   ► That was very clever. Bravo, Stephen.

00:01:58 ◼   ► I'm actually wondering, do you improvise train announcements much in your life?

00:02:04 ◼   ► Because that was almost too good to be improvised.

00:02:06 ◼   ► Have you ever been on a train?

00:02:08 ◼   ► That is too good to be improvised, honestly.

00:02:14 ◼   ► I've never been in like a real train, but I've been in...

00:02:17 ◼   ► I've used the tube a bunch and I've been in London.

00:02:21 ◼   ► Wait, why? You've never been in a real...

00:02:23 ◼   ► Oh, because you don't have trains in America.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Not really. Not in my part of America.

00:02:27 ◼   ► Wow.

00:02:28 ◼   ► Because it was very good, but there's no trains.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Well, there is a train, but it just gets in your way. That's what it does.

00:02:33 ◼   ► There is the train that's always in my way, if you follow me on Instagram.

00:02:36 ◼   ► I would very much like...

00:02:38 ◼   ► There's a train that runs...

00:02:39 ◼   ► It's like Chicago, Memphis, and then it goes to New Orleans.

00:02:42 ◼   ► And I would love to take it. It's overnight to New Orleans.

00:02:45 ◼   ► And I would love to do that sometime for like a weekend.

00:02:47 ◼   ► Just go to Mardi Gras.

00:02:49 ◼   ► Haven't made it happen. You want to go?

00:02:50 ◼   ► Yeah, you definitely wouldn't want to go to Mardi Gras.

00:02:52 ◼   ► No, it's not. It's not my scene.

00:02:54 ◼   ► You could take the midnight train and go anywhere.

00:02:59 ◼   ► You could take the midnight train to Georgia.

00:03:01 ◼   ► I didn't know there was a train station in Memphis, honestly.

00:03:03 ◼   ► Yeah, it's downtown. It's Amtrak.

00:03:05 ◼   ► There you go. You learn something new every day.

00:03:07 ◼   ► But anyway. Anyway.

00:03:09 ◼   ► Anyways.

00:03:11 ◼   ► The Kickstarter.

00:03:12 ◼   ► If you were listening to this live, you have about 22 hours left.

00:03:17 ◼   ► If you're listening to it after I publish it, you have until Friday, July 14th,

00:03:22 ◼   ► at 10.44am Eastern to back the Kickstarter.

00:03:26 ◼   ► And I would love it if you did. Go check it out. Time is...

00:03:29 ◼   ► You should go.

00:03:30 ◼   ► ...of the essence.

00:03:31 ◼   ► It really is.

00:03:31 ◼   ► If you don't get off at this stop, I can't tell you what happens to the train after that, you know?

00:03:36 ◼   ► Just...

00:03:36 ◼   ► Train derails.

00:03:37 ◼   ► ...into a pile of packing materials.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Everyone... Nobody makes it.

00:03:43 ◼   ► That's the end.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Oh, it's so sad. You must back.

00:03:45 ◼   ► If you don't back now, the train will derail.

00:03:48 ◼   ► If you want to save all the passengers, go to Kickstarter.

00:03:53 ◼   ► Please do. It's the first link in the show notes.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Thank you very much.

00:03:57 ◼   ► We have just a little... It's not really follow up. It's like follow forward.

00:04:02 ◼   ► It's about something we're going to talk about in the future.

00:04:05 ◼   ► Follow forward?

00:04:06 ◼   ► Follow forward.

00:04:06 ◼   ► Follow forward?

00:04:07 ◼   ► Follow forward.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Follow... Follow forward.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Keith Brony, the person who is now running Emojipedia,

00:04:17 ◼   ► he beat Jeremy in a sword fight and took over, I think is how that went.

00:04:21 ◼   ► Oh, new Jeremy. Sure.

00:04:23 ◼   ► New Jeremy. Federico, you can't look at this, but Keith has...

00:04:26 ◼   ► Oh, I guess it's too late. I clicked the link. Now my family's dead. My family's dead.

00:04:31 ◼   ► I clicked the link.

00:04:32 ◼   ► That train derailed. The emoji train derailed.

00:04:34 ◼   ► It literally says, "Don't look, T.G. Ride above the link."

00:04:37 ◼   ► I didn't click it. I didn't click it.

00:04:39 ◼   ► So this is a preview of what will be coming in new emoji over the next several months.

00:04:47 ◼   ► We will play the Jeremy's as we always do and as I always forget on the episode that coincides with

00:04:54 ◼   ► Apple's announcement of the emoji that they'll be adding in iOS 17.3 or .4 at some point.

00:05:02 ◼   ► So we're not going to play yet, but we always get questions.

00:05:05 ◼   ► And I just want to... Maybe, Mike, maybe you and I can do a

00:05:08 ◼   ► recreation of our conversation this morning in Slack.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Yes.

00:05:13 ◼   ► If you want to open that up.

00:05:14 ◼   ► So 9.52 a.m., I just put a link into this blog post on Emojipedia.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Oh, hello.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I never remember when we play the game.

00:05:24 ◼   ► When Apple announces, "I knew you were going to say this. You do it every time."

00:05:28 ◼   ► I like the fake laugh that it was good.

00:05:31 ◼   ► Ha, ha, ha.

00:05:33 ◼   ► Ha, ha, ha. And then I said, "Put it in the document or something.

00:05:36 ◼   ► When Apple has their images is when we do it."

00:05:39 ◼   ► Oh, man, it's literally in there.

00:05:40 ◼   ► LOL.

00:05:42 ◼   ► I kind of pay for an audiobook of you two reading your chats.

00:05:48 ◼   ► This is very captivating content.

00:05:52 ◼   ► This is how we communicate.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Every single time when this happens, both when Emojipedia show that when there's any

00:06:00 ◼   ► articles and then when Apple also shows, Steven always has to ask me, "When do we play the

00:06:05 ◼   ► game?" He can never remember.

00:06:06 ◼   ► So at some point he put it in the document and now he's forgot that he put it in the

00:06:09 ◼   ► document.

00:06:10 ◼   ► Federico, can you take your headphones off for like 10 seconds?

00:06:14 ◼   ► I think we should read the rest of this because I want to get to my joke, Mike.

00:06:17 ◼   ► But he can't hear it.

00:06:17 ◼   ► Okay, I'm actually, okay, all right, cool.

00:06:20 ◼   ► I took them off.

00:06:21 ◼   ► All right, go Mike.

00:06:22 ◼   ► Pretty small list this time.

00:06:23 ◼   ► Lime is the real winner.

00:06:25 ◼   ► I am very excited about that.

00:06:28 ◼   ► It is needed.

00:06:29 ◼   ► It was literally low hanging fruit.

00:06:32 ◼   ► And then I will now give the, this is what my emoji was.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Federico can come back.

00:06:40 ◼   ► Does he know this?

00:06:41 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Maybe we text him.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Federico, come back.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Hey, come back.

00:06:46 ◼   ► Are you done?

00:06:48 ◼   ► Yes.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Okay.

00:06:49 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:06:50 ◼   ► In like October, you can go back and listen to that.

00:06:53 ◼   ► You just texted me come back.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Come back.

00:06:56 ◼   ► Wow.

00:06:58 ◼   ► I have some Shazam follow up.

00:07:01 ◼   ► Like the movie?

00:07:01 ◼   ► The movie.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:03 ◼   ► Fury of the gods.

00:07:04 ◼   ► The hierarchy of power in the DC universe is about to change.

00:07:09 ◼   ► No Shazam, the app.

00:07:10 ◼   ► It can now recognize music from inside of other applications.

00:07:15 ◼   ► So open Shazam, hit the button, switch to the app that there was music in, Instagram, TikTok

00:07:21 ◼   ► or whatever you like.

00:07:21 ◼   ► What is that song on this Instagram reel?

00:07:24 ◼   ► Shazam continues to listen.

00:07:25 ◼   ► Then you go back to the application and it tells you what was playing.

00:07:29 ◼   ► Wait, wasn't this like Shazam and control center can do this already?

00:07:33 ◼   ► I mean, maybe.

00:07:35 ◼   ► Shazam and control center, like I think it was two years ago or last year.

00:07:38 ◼   ► So the Shazam thing in control center, it can listen to audio from apps.

00:07:45 ◼   ► Okay.

00:07:46 ◼   ► But now I guess the main Shazam.

00:07:48 ◼   ► This is in the main app.

00:07:50 ◼   ► Like I didn't remember that.

00:07:51 ◼   ► Okay.

00:07:52 ◼   ► So now the main app can do it.

00:07:52 ◼   ► This is an update to the app itself, so you can open the app, press the button, go to

00:07:56 ◼   ► another one, come back.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Oh, that's cool.

00:07:59 ◼   ► Because like maybe some people don't know about the control center integration.

00:08:03 ◼   ► So yeah, that makes sense.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Maybe Shazam forgot.

00:08:06 ◼   ► Or that, sure.

00:08:08 ◼   ► And they were like, oh, we have a good idea for a feature.

00:08:10 ◼   ► And they already built it, but they forgot.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I use it.

00:08:12 ◼   ► I only use it through control center.

00:08:14 ◼   ► I don't even think I have the app installed.

00:08:15 ◼   ► I use it with Siri.

00:08:17 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:08:18 ◼   ► I always forget you could do that.

00:08:19 ◼   ► Right.

00:08:20 ◼   ► Because you can ask like what's playing.

00:08:22 ◼   ► Or what's playing.

00:08:23 ◼   ► Or like, well, I said like, what's this song?

00:08:25 ◼   ► Cause what's playing would be weird.

00:08:26 ◼   ► I was like, what is this song?

00:08:27 ◼   ► And then it just listens.

00:08:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:28 ◼   ► I use the control center thing all the time because like, I always feel very, uh, subconscious

00:08:34 ◼   ► about sort of talking to Siri in English while I'm in public in Italy.

00:08:39 ◼   ► I whisper to Siri.

00:08:40 ◼   ► So you whispered to Siri.

00:08:41 ◼   ► You should try that.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:43 ◼   ► I always whisper.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:45 ◼   ► And you always whispered to Siri.

00:08:47 ◼   ► Into my phone.

00:08:48 ◼   ► I'm like, turn on the lights.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Why?

00:08:52 ◼   ► Cause that's just weird.

00:08:53 ◼   ► Like you're in the room on your own.

00:08:54 ◼   ► Someone else is in the house and you're like, what did you say?

00:08:58 ◼   ► I didn't say anything.

00:09:00 ◼   ► You know, I just, I just whispered to Siri.

00:09:04 ◼   ► We're going to talk about Siri in the next topic because they have some followup questions,

00:09:09 ◼   ► but they make more sense, I guess.

00:09:11 ◼   ► When we talk about iOS 17.

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00:11:06 ◼   ► Our thanks to NetSuite for their support of the show and Relay FM.

00:11:10 ◼   ► It's public beta season.

00:11:11 ◼   ► The public betas are available.

00:11:13 ◼   ► We're on developer beta 3.

00:11:14 ◼   ► We're on developer beta 3 remastered, I think is probably what they call it now.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Yeah, 3HD.

00:11:20 ◼   ► We're at 3HD because there was a second release.

00:11:23 ◼   ► Yeah, you don't want to get the first.

00:11:25 ◼   ► You don't want to get beta 3 regular.

00:11:28 ◼   ► That's the...

00:11:29 ◼   ► Or maybe the original one is like the hipster beta now.

00:11:32 ◼   ► Nah, nah, nah.

00:11:34 ◼   ► So we're on developer beta 3.

00:11:36 ◼   ► And that includes the public betas for all of the platforms.

00:11:41 ◼   ► Mac OS, watchOS, iPad OS, iOS, MacRumors...

00:11:47 ◼   ► MacRumors.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Your Mac stories, Mac stories and Six Colors.

00:11:51 ◼   ► My website MacRumors.

00:11:53 ◼   ► MacRumors.

00:11:54 ◼   ► Federico Rosinho is here from MacRumors.

00:11:59 ◼   ► Mac stories and Six Colors both had big roundups of all of the features.

00:12:04 ◼   ► We have the pleasure of being joined by Federico who wrote about iOS and iPadOS.

00:12:08 ◼   ► Hello.

00:12:09 ◼   ► I would say I loved your article Federico.

00:12:11 ◼   ► The vibes are good and that makes me happy to know you're happy.

00:12:15 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:12:16 ◼   ► It's much better than last year.

00:12:19 ◼   ► The article made me feel like I can finally breathe again.

00:12:23 ◼   ► Obviously in terms of like the kind of content that I write in the summer,

00:12:28 ◼   ► I don't ever want to feel like last summer ever again.

00:12:33 ◼   ► That was not pleasant at all, especially when moving to a new place.

00:12:38 ◼   ► So yeah, yeah, I'm so happy that you liked it.

00:12:42 ◼   ► What do you want to talk about with iOS and iPadOS?

00:12:46 ◼   ► You all have the betas installed now, right?

00:12:49 ◼   ► Yes.

00:12:49 ◼   ► On your foot.

00:12:50 ◼   ► Okay.

00:12:50 ◼   ► So I didn't touch upon this in my story because I'm saving,

00:12:55 ◼   ► like it's impossible to talk about every single feature in a preview for the public beta.

00:13:00 ◼   ► So I said also you want to hold something for the review, like, you know, just like, yeah,

00:13:05 ◼   ► exactly, exactly.

00:13:07 ◼   ► So before we talk about the actual stuff that I wrote about, let me ask you,

00:13:11 ◼   ► have you played around at all with the new contacts,

00:13:15 ◼   ► contact posters, features, and the new airdrop stuff?

00:13:20 ◼   ► I've only had the contact poster thing crash when I tried to set it up.

00:13:24 ◼   ► So I haven't gotten very far with that.

00:13:26 ◼   ► Same, same here.

00:13:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I've set it up, but I'm not happy with mine.

00:13:31 ◼   ► I don't think it looks very good.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Like the image that I'm using now, which is one of the ones that Apple took of us at WWDC,

00:13:39 ◼   ► like it just is not a very good image for that.

00:13:42 ◼   ► So I need to play around with it.

00:13:43 ◼   ► I'm also a little bit confused as to how to like select what information I want to be

00:13:50 ◼   ► shared with people.

00:13:50 ◼   ► Like I'm a little bit puzzled by that.

00:13:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I set mine up, like I tried to set mine up and it crashed.

00:13:57 ◼   ► Then I did it again, but I just selected my Memoji and I don't think it's a particularly

00:14:01 ◼   ► effective contact poster.

00:14:03 ◼   ► So I got to redo it.

00:14:04 ◼   ► And the airdrop stuff, I really wanted to try, but it's impossible to do it if you don't

00:14:10 ◼   ► have somebody else on the iOS 17 beta.

00:14:13 ◼   ► So I'm guessing that up.

00:14:15 ◼   ► So it's either going to go that I'm going to get a second iPhone and put iOS 17 on it,

00:14:23 ◼   ► or I will sneak the iOS 17 public beta on Sylvia's phone.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Don't do that.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Wait, what about your special iPod?

00:14:31 ◼   ► iPhone.

00:14:32 ◼   ► Well, but I got to keep something on 16 for the comparisons.

00:14:36 ◼   ► Why?

00:14:36 ◼   ► For the comparisons.

00:14:37 ◼   ► What about having an iPad?

00:14:43 ◼   ► Can't you just do it to the iPad?

00:14:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess I'll do that.

00:14:48 ◼   ► You didn't think about that until I said it, did you?

00:14:49 ◼   ► I didn't think about that.

00:14:51 ◼   ► But will it work though?

00:14:53 ◼   ► But will it work?

00:14:53 ◼   ► With the U1 and all that kind of stuff?

00:14:56 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:14:56 ◼   ► I wanted the phone to phone, the bump thing.

00:14:59 ◼   ► So you need, instead of day phone, night phone, you need send phone, receive phone.

00:15:03 ◼   ► I need morning, afternoon, and night phones.

00:15:08 ◼   ► I need three of them.

00:15:09 ◼   ► It's the next step.

00:15:10 ◼   ► Music phone.

00:15:11 ◼   ► There's so many phones.

00:15:13 ◼   ► iPod phone.

00:15:13 ◼   ► It's the next logical step in the collection of iPhones is to break it up by morning, afternoon,

00:15:19 ◼   ► and evening like Apple does in reminders.

00:15:21 ◼   ► You got to have three of them.

00:15:23 ◼   ► And John, we have one true John real time feedback.

00:15:26 ◼   ► The airdrop thing does not work from iPad to iPhone.

00:15:31 ◼   ► Wait, is he just texting you and not us?

00:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, John is upset with you both.

00:15:34 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:15:35 ◼   ► What did we do?

00:15:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:15:37 ◼   ► I just made it up.

00:15:37 ◼   ► Okay.

00:15:38 ◼   ► But it will be at some point.

00:15:40 ◼   ► And when it happens, I'll be correct.

00:15:42 ◼   ► We will upset him.

00:15:46 ◼   ► Well, I mean, everybody upsets somebody at some point, right?

00:15:49 ◼   ► Wow.

00:15:50 ◼   ► I feel like you're, of all of the three of us, of the three of us, you are the most likely

00:15:55 ◼   ► to upset John, I feel like.

00:15:57 ◼   ► He texted you, you know what you did.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:15:59 ◼   ► Well, I think he's saying that to you personally.

00:16:01 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:16:02 ◼   ► It's, you know what you did.

00:16:03 ◼   ► Anyway, anyway, so maybe I'll get a third iPhone.

00:16:07 ◼   ► Maybe not.

00:16:07 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:16:08 ◼   ► Of course.

00:16:11 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:16:15 ◼   ► But so a big chunk of my story was sort of dedicated to widgets and this idea of widgets

00:16:22 ◼   ► everywhere in iOS 17.

00:16:25 ◼   ► And not only widgets everywhere, but interactive widgets.

00:16:28 ◼   ► So we have widgets on the home screen, on the lock screen, on the watch, obviously,

00:16:33 ◼   ► and in standby.

00:16:35 ◼   ► And all of these type of widgets support interactions.

00:16:40 ◼   ► As I wrote in my story, I kind of feel like three years ago when iOS 14 came out, and

00:16:46 ◼   ► in the summer, I had so much fun sort of trying to understand all these different options

00:16:53 ◼   ► and combinations for widgets while also waiting for third-party developers to come out with

00:16:58 ◼   ► their widgets.

00:16:59 ◼   ► And now I feel like I've been waiting for this moment of widgets gaining some form of

00:17:05 ◼   ► interactivity.

00:17:06 ◼   ► And now they have that.

00:17:08 ◼   ► And even the few third-party examples that I have now, those have been so useful that

00:17:15 ◼   ► I cannot even begin to imagine when it's September and realistically, every single app that I

00:17:20 ◼   ► have on my phone is going to have some kind of interactive widget.

00:17:23 ◼   ► How am I going to decide how many home screens I want to have?

00:17:27 ◼   ► How many widgets I want to use?

00:17:29 ◼   ► And it's a great problem to have, right?

00:17:30 ◼   ► Because it means you have such a great feature that you really want to use it.

00:17:34 ◼   ► I feel like I'm going to have to redo all of it again because I've already just like

00:17:37 ◼   ► having used it for a couple of days, I have like a whole different screen now.

00:17:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:17:42 ◼   ► So yeah, I'm in that.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Like I have so few apps that even have it, right?

00:17:46 ◼   ► So I feel you completely.

00:17:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I feel like maybe I'm going to use stacks now, which is something that I think you have

00:17:54 ◼   ► to.

00:17:55 ◼   ► It's something that I never really did, but I guess I have to at this point, especially

00:17:59 ◼   ► because like, for example, small widgets now, the square ones on the little widget, the

00:18:06 ◼   ► little widget now supports multiple touch targets.

00:18:11 ◼   ► So like, for example, Apple did a small shortcuts folder, which that shows you two shortcuts

00:18:21 ◼   ► instead of just one.

00:18:22 ◼   ► And that's much better.

00:18:23 ◼   ► I mean, realistically, they could even show four.

00:18:26 ◼   ► I feel it because that's as small as the HomeKit one.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:32 ◼   ► Like the HomeKit one, you could put four in one.

00:18:34 ◼   ► So why can't I put four widgets?

00:18:36 ◼   ► I think little widgets can do it.

00:18:39 ◼   ► You know, you can, you can, you can do it for shortcuts.

00:18:43 ◼   ► You can give it for shortcuts and it'd be like, sure, I'll do it.

00:18:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:46 ◼   ► But yeah, so the small widgets, I think they lend themselves really well to stacks, just

00:18:51 ◼   ► sort of flipping through.

00:18:52 ◼   ► Like, for example, the home widget that you mentioned, it's a small one and it's got four

00:18:56 ◼   ► accessories, which I've been using a lot.

00:18:58 ◼   ► And then there's standby.

00:19:02 ◼   ► And I kind of wanted to get a feel from you, like, now that you have the beta, have you

00:19:06 ◼   ► been using it much?

00:19:07 ◼   ► I've tried it out and set it up.

00:19:11 ◼   ► Like, I don't have any charging solutions, right?

00:19:14 ◼   ► So like, I just have to plug my phone in because I don't have any docks or whatever, right?

00:19:19 ◼   ► Ah, because you are, yeah, because you are, you have, you have the MagSafe conspiracy

00:19:24 ◼   ► theory going on.

00:19:25 ◼   ► I'm annoyed how much I like it because I now know it's going to cause me some problems.

00:19:29 ◼   ► Like, I need to buy some stands because this is a fantastic feature, like a truly excellent

00:19:36 ◼   ► feature.

00:19:37 ◼   ► Like, the only third party app that I have that supports it is Timery.

00:19:41 ◼   ► And just that alone is superb.

00:19:45 ◼   ► Like, superb as for standby.

00:19:48 ◼   ► I like it too.

00:19:50 ◼   ► I do have a upright version of Studio Neat's material dock at my desk.

00:19:56 ◼   ► And I've just started putting my phone in there in landscape.

00:20:00 ◼   ► And it's, it's kind of like off in the corner of my desk, but these widgets are huge, right?

00:20:06 ◼   ► It's kind of designed to like see from across the room.

00:20:08 ◼   ► So I have a clock and I have the weather and I love it.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Like, it's, I still want it on an iPad.

00:20:14 ◼   ► I still think this is really useful in other contexts other than just the phone.

00:20:18 ◼   ► But it's pretty good on the phone.

00:20:19 ◼   ► I'm, I am, I thought it would be a little gimmicky, but I'm sold.

00:20:24 ◼   ► Like, I'm here for it.

00:20:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I think for me personally, it makes a lot of sense as a desk companion, like having

00:20:33 ◼   ► Timery off on the side and you can sort of stop a timer there or just having a calendar

00:20:39 ◼   ► for reference.

00:20:40 ◼   ► I think it's really useful.

00:20:41 ◼   ► And I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you a fun, a fun story, which I was supposed

00:20:46 ◼   ► to save for, you know, private conversation time, but I guess whatever.

00:20:50 ◼   ► So standby has this feature called, in theory, MagSafe memory, where it should remember the

00:21:00 ◼   ► standby configuration for each charger that you have.

00:21:05 ◼   ► And this only works with MagSafe because MagSafe chargers have a unique ID, right, associated

00:21:11 ◼   ► with them.

00:21:12 ◼   ► They support some basic data transmission effectively, which is also why, for example,

00:21:17 ◼   ► when you attach a MagSafe case to your phone, you see the color of the case in the animation,

00:21:23 ◼   ► right, on your phone.

00:21:24 ◼   ► That's the sort of data that the iOS can take from a MagSafe certified accessory.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Qi accessories, like regular wireless chargers, do not have this kind of feature.

00:21:36 ◼   ► They do not have an ID that iOS can recognize.

00:21:40 ◼   ► With MagSafe and standby, this memory feature looks at the ID of a charger and, in theory,

00:21:47 ◼   ► should remember.

00:21:47 ◼   ► For example, I see that on the charger that you have in the kitchen, you want to have

00:21:53 ◼   ► a calendar and a music widget.

00:21:56 ◼   ► But I see that on the nightstand, you prefer to use the clock page of standby.

00:22:03 ◼   ► And in theory, as you place your phone on different chargers, the right page and the

00:22:11 ◼   ► right widget configuration for the first page, in case you use that, should come up automatically.

00:22:18 ◼   ► So standby should remember the page you're using, and if you're using the widget page,

00:22:26 ◼   ► which widgets you're using, sort of as default on the charger.

00:22:31 ◼   ► This feature hasn't been working for me at all in the public beta, and I'm guessing that

00:22:36 ◼   ► the problem is that I have those cubes, the anchor MagSafe cubes.

00:22:41 ◼   ► So these are certified, right?

00:22:43 ◼   ► They are MagSafe official, and it's not working at all, and so I've been trying to work it

00:22:50 ◼   ► out with Apple, "Hey, what's going on here?"

00:22:51 ◼   ► And I didn't know this, but in iOS 17, when you place your phone on a MagSafe charger,

00:22:58 ◼   ► and if you go into settings, general, about, after a few seconds, with the phone being

00:23:06 ◼   ► placed on the charger, you will get details about the charger from the settings app.

00:23:12 ◼   ► So let's see if it works now.

00:23:14 ◼   ► I'm going into, so I place my phone on the cube.

00:23:16 ◼   ► In theory, and this doesn't always work, which I guess is the problem, in theory, if I go

00:23:22 ◼   ► into settings, it should give me the, so settings, general, about, it should recognize the charger,

00:23:30 ◼   ► and of course it doesn't.

00:23:31 ◼   ► So see, this is the problem that I'm having now.

00:23:33 ◼   ► iOS 17 beta doesn't always recognize a MagSafe charger, so standby comes up, but it doesn't

00:23:39 ◼   ► remember any settings.

00:23:41 ◼   ► But when it, I guess at some point it'll start working, when it does, that should be pretty

00:23:45 ◼   ► cool, right?

00:23:46 ◼   ► That standby will remember sort of, "Hey, on this charger, I know that you like to use

00:23:50 ◼   ► such and such page, but on this other one..."

00:23:52 ◼   ► But it requires MagSafe certification.

00:23:55 ◼   ► It requires MagSafe certification, because when it works, when this page appears in settings,

00:24:01 ◼   ► it'll tell you the name of the, like the manufacturer of the charger, the ID, and the firmware version

00:24:08 ◼   ► of the charger.

00:24:09 ◼   ► So, but yeah, this is only for MagSafe certified accessories.

00:24:15 ◼   ► So if you have one of these chargers that doesn't charge at full speed, it's not going

00:24:19 ◼   ► to work.

00:24:20 ◼   ► And people get confused, like I asked about this on Threads, and I got exactly the kind

00:24:25 ◼   ► of replies I knew I was going to get, like I asked for a MagSafe official, so MagSafe

00:24:29 ◼   ► certified chargers, and people just respond with MagSafe compatible, which is a different

00:24:36 ◼   ► thing, right?

00:24:37 ◼   ► MagSafe compatible is not-

00:24:38 ◼   ► - MagSafe compatible is nothing.

00:24:40 ◼   ► It's just key charging of a magnet.

00:24:41 ◼   ► - MagSafe compatible is nothing, exactly.

00:24:44 ◼   ► It's like saying, "I am soccer compatible, but like I don't play soccer, but in theory,

00:24:48 ◼   ► I could."

00:24:49 ◼   ► No.

00:24:49 ◼   ► - In theory, you have all the parts.

00:24:50 ◼   ► - In theory, I have all the, yes, I have all the body parts necessary for being soccer

00:24:55 ◼   ► compatible, but I'm not soccer certified, you know?

00:24:58 ◼   ► And that's the difference.

00:24:59 ◼   ► - Who certifies you?

00:24:59 ◼   ► Like FIFA?

00:25:00 ◼   ► Like who does that?

00:25:01 ◼   ► - FIFA, sure, yes.

00:25:02 ◼   ► - FIFA.

00:25:03 ◼   ► - Referee, yes.

00:25:04 ◼   ► - Referee, historically.

00:25:05 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:25:06 ◼   ► - Anyway, so in theory, when that starts working, should be pretty cool, and it's also another

00:25:13 ◼   ► reason why I am convinced that I want MagSafe on the iPad now.

00:25:19 ◼   ► They should just do it.

00:25:19 ◼   ► I've seen the light.

00:25:21 ◼   ► They should do it.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - A couple of quick things before we move on.

00:25:25 ◼   ► One, when they made MagSafe and like they decided that each one would have its own ID,

00:25:30 ◼   ► like what a good move if this feature wasn't on the map already.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Maybe it was, but that's very clever.

00:25:36 ◼   ► More importantly though, I have discovered, and maybe this was talked about, I missed

00:25:41 ◼   ► it, but it's news to me.

00:25:43 ◼   ► When the iPhone is in landscape and it's in this standby mode, you have to authenticate

00:25:51 ◼   ► with Face ID to change the widgets, and Face ID works horizontally on the phone now.

00:25:55 ◼   ► I don't know when that has it.

00:25:56 ◼   ► - Oh, it has for a while.

00:25:58 ◼   ► - They added it last year or two years ago.

00:26:01 ◼   ► I have this problem where I cannot differentiate between 2021 and 2022.

00:26:06 ◼   ► - No one can.

00:26:07 ◼   ► - I would say it doesn't work very well.

00:26:09 ◼   ► Like it's not as reliable.

00:26:11 ◼   ► Like I found that, right?

00:26:12 ◼   ► Like the landscape one misses me more than the portrait one.

00:26:15 ◼   ► - It's worse than the portrait.

00:26:17 ◼   ► And also it's kind of weird.

00:26:18 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:26:19 ◼   ► How do you guys feel about when editing standby requires being in standby mode?

00:26:28 ◼   ► - That's a little annoying because I want my phone in my hand, not on the dock.

00:26:32 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:26:33 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:33 ◼   ► - And when you try to edit it and Face ID comes up, very often my thumb is covering

00:26:40 ◼   ► the camera.

00:26:40 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:26:41 ◼   ► - And it fails.

00:26:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:26:43 ◼   ► - And so, yeah, that fails.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Before we move on to the next section of the betas, just one thing I want to say,

00:26:51 ◼   ► because Mike said sort of the vibes are good in my story, just how happy I am with iPadOS

00:26:58 ◼   ► this year, even though it doesn't do all the things I wanted, right?

00:27:02 ◼   ► iPadOS 17, for example, does not have anything for audio, for recording podcasts and all

00:27:11 ◼   ► of that.

00:27:12 ◼   ► But just the fact that they listen to feedback for Stage Manager, for keyboard shortcuts,

00:27:18 ◼   ► for like some very fundamental problems of Stage Manager, that makes me so happy.

00:27:24 ◼   ► And just working with it, again, even without the podcasting related features and even without

00:27:32 ◼   ► clamshell mode, which I do believe will happen before any sort of audio interface.

00:27:40 ◼   ► But it still feels so much nicer.

00:27:45 ◼   ► And I kind of feel like if only they listened last year, right?

00:27:49 ◼   ► Could have saved me all the trouble.

00:27:50 ◼   ► But I guess sometimes you got to go through the process, right?

00:27:55 ◼   ► To ship something that faces a lot of criticism and you got to listen and go back and fix

00:28:02 ◼   ► a few things and that, maybe that's part of the process and every once in a while that

00:28:06 ◼   ► needs to happen.

00:28:07 ◼   ► And it happened this time.

00:28:09 ◼   ► But now in 17, I'm very happy.

00:28:12 ◼   ► And we should say it came up in the Discord that if you're running a phone without an

00:28:18 ◼   ► always on display, you have to tap the display to see the clock and widgets and stuff.

00:28:25 ◼   ► Honestly, I'm surprised that it's on them.

00:28:27 ◼   ► In my mind, I just figured it was an always on display phone feature only.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I'm glad they brought it backwards.

00:28:36 ◼   ► I could have seen a word where they didn't pretty easily.

00:28:39 ◼   ► The very last thing, columns in reminders and internal links in notes.

00:28:47 ◼   ► And sections in reminders lists, which is something that THINGS has and Todoist has

00:28:54 ◼   ► now, I think.

00:28:55 ◼   ► But I think it's really useful.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Like if you have a really big project, you could have instead of a list for like each

00:29:01 ◼   ► section of the project, you can have just little dividers and reminders.

00:29:05 ◼   ► And those get translated into columns in that new Kanban view.

00:29:12 ◼   ► Very cool stuff in both of those apps.

00:29:14 ◼   ► My pitch for Apple is to take the people who work on reminders, notes, and free form, put

00:29:24 ◼   ► them together in a room, and tell them "fix mail."

00:29:30 ◼   ► Those people take those people 100, 200, I don't know how many they are, but they obviously

00:29:36 ◼   ► do excellent work.

00:29:37 ◼   ► They do.

00:29:37 ◼   ► So you take them all together, you put them in a room of the ring, or like you give them

00:29:43 ◼   ► the fitness center or whatever, and you have a year to reimagine the mail app.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Honestly, I think it's a pretty good strategy.

00:29:51 ◼   ► They should do it.

00:29:52 ◼   ► Yeah, those teams, and I think those teams have a lot of overlap within Apple, but that's

00:29:59 ◼   ► really some of the most exciting work happening on Apple software anywhere.

00:30:04 ◼   ► We've talked a lot about this on Mac Power Users over the last year, that Apple's really

00:30:08 ◼   ► taken their productivity suite very seriously over the last couple of years.

00:30:13 ◼   ► And really, if you roll back the clock, Notes has been taken seriously since like, was it

00:30:17 ◼   ► iOS 9 and LCAP where it finally got its own sync engine and started getting good?

00:30:23 ◼   ► These apps make noticeable improvements every couple of years, and it makes me sad for the

00:30:30 ◼   ► other apps that don't.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Mostly mail, because like you said, it's right there.

00:30:34 ◼   ► It's in the same sort of vibe of productivity, and it doesn't get the love the others do.

00:30:40 ◼   ► It's a little bit sad.

00:30:41 ◼   ► One thing on the iPad I just want to touch on, you talked about the changes to Stage

00:30:48 ◼   ► Manager.

00:30:49 ◼   ► Could you be a little specific about what those changes are and what they mean to you?

00:30:54 ◼   ► So the core changes to how Windows work, if you're calling iPadOS 16, Stage Manager

00:31:04 ◼   ► was very opinionated about the sizing of Windows and the placement of Windows.

00:31:11 ◼   ► And both of those things have changed in 17, meaning the way Windows are resized in

00:31:19 ◼   ► Stage Manager for iPad is still similar to last year, in that you're effectively switching

00:31:25 ◼   ► between predetermined size classes for apps.

00:31:28 ◼   ► But it almost feels like you have more options, like more steps in between for resizing a

00:31:34 ◼   ► window now than you had last year.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So you have more flexible sizing options in 17 compared to 16.

00:31:44 ◼   ► But more importantly, I think, you have a lot more freedom when it comes to placing a window

00:31:52 ◼   ► on screen and the window staying there where you want it.

00:31:56 ◼   ► Last year, you would pick up a window, drag it somewhere, let go, and it would move from

00:32:02 ◼   ► underneath your cursor.

00:32:03 ◼   ► The system would say, yeah, I see that you placed it here, but I'm just going to move

00:32:09 ◼   ► it there, because I think that's the sort of optimal placement for you.

00:32:13 ◼   ► And that drove me crazy last year.

00:32:16 ◼   ► And I know that it's one of the most common criticisms from people who try to use Stage

00:32:22 ◼   ► Manager coming from a desktop computing environment.

00:32:25 ◼   ► That's changed in 17.

00:32:29 ◼   ► Now, when you pick up a window and you drag it somewhere, 90% of the time it stays there.

00:32:36 ◼   ► And I'm excluding that 10% because the system, Stage Manager, still tries to very subtly

00:32:44 ◼   ► optimize the workspace for you.

00:32:47 ◼   ► And I think this year they have reached a much better balance for this idea.

00:32:53 ◼   ► The idea being that on the iPad, Apple tries really hard to not hide windows that are behind

00:33:02 ◼   ► other windows.

00:33:03 ◼   ► Right?

00:33:04 ◼   ► This is the problem of the traditional multi-windowing environment of macOS.

00:33:09 ◼   ► You open a bunch of windows, and it's easy to lose track of them, because something else

00:33:14 ◼   ► is covering them.

00:33:16 ◼   ► With Stage Manager last year, Apple said, we're going to limit the workspace to four

00:33:21 ◼   ► windows at once, and Stage Manager will always try to make all windows visible at once for

00:33:30 ◼   ► you so you don't lose track of them.

00:33:32 ◼   ► But in doing that, they went a little too far, and they overcompensated a little for

00:33:37 ◼   ► this idea.

00:33:39 ◼   ► And the result was, Stage Manager was always moving windows for you.

00:33:42 ◼   ► This year, I don't know what they did, I don't know what kind of discussions they had

00:33:48 ◼   ► internally, but now, generally, when you pick up a window and you place it somewhere, it

00:33:54 ◼   ► stays there.

00:33:55 ◼   ► And you can do layouts now that were not allowed last year.

00:33:59 ◼   ► So for example, you make a window really small, and you want to drag it all the way to the

00:34:04 ◼   ► left of the screen, but then you want to pick up another window, make it slightly bigger,

00:34:08 ◼   ► and place it on the very far right side of the display.

00:34:13 ◼   ► Now you can do it.

00:34:15 ◼   ► And it sounds obvious, right?

00:34:16 ◼   ► It sounds obvious that you should be able to do this.

00:34:17 ◼   ► Take a small window, place it on the left, take a bigger window, place it on the right,

00:34:22 ◼   ► leave a gap in the middle.

00:34:23 ◼   ► It sounds obvious enough, and it was not possible last year.

00:34:27 ◼   ► If you tried to do this last year, this very simple layout, Stage Manager would take both

00:34:32 ◼   ► windows and center them in the middle of the screen.

00:34:35 ◼   ► It doesn't do it anymore.

00:34:38 ◼   ► And this is especially effective on an external display, where you have a much bigger canvas,

00:34:44 ◼   ► and you're free to say, "Okay, I'm going to take a music window, make it a small rectangular

00:34:48 ◼   ► shaped window, place it on the top left, take my Mastodon client or whatever, make it a

00:34:55 ◼   ► square in the bottom right corner."

00:34:57 ◼   ► And now you can do it.

00:34:59 ◼   ► Then there's keyboard shortcuts.

00:35:01 ◼   ► Notably, you can now shift-click basically anywhere.

00:35:07 ◼   ► You can shift-click an icon in the dock to add the selected app to the current workspace.

00:35:15 ◼   ► You can shift-click in the strip on the left side for recent apps.

00:35:22 ◼   ► And you can shift-click Spotlight App Results.

00:35:25 ◼   ► So there's a much better keyboard-driven way to add a window to the current workspace without

00:35:34 ◼   ► having to use drag and drop.

00:35:36 ◼   ► And that's really the core of the changes in Stage Manager.

00:35:40 ◼   ► And they sound like small things, but in aggregate, and when you're actually trying to get work

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00:37:39 ◼   ► So there was also WatchOS and macOS.

00:37:44 ◼   ► I was reading through the articles that Alex and John put together.

00:37:48 ◼   ► There were a couple of things I wanted to point out that I just thought were interesting

00:37:52 ◼   ► and helped clarify some things.

00:37:54 ◼   ► So I knew that the buttons and what the buttons did on the watch had changed a bit,

00:37:59 ◼   ► and Alex kind of helped explain this to me in a way that made sense.

00:38:02 ◼   ► So to get the dock, which is like in the current version of WatchOS,

00:38:06 ◼   ► you press the side button and you can see, you can configure it to show you apps,

00:38:11 ◼   ► and they can either be recent ones or apps that you've chosen.

00:38:14 ◼   ► I use this quite a lot to switch between just like the three or four apps that I use on my Apple Watch.

00:38:20 ◼   ► And I heard that they were getting rid of this because now the side button,

00:38:24 ◼   ► you press it and it brings up Control Center.

00:38:26 ◼   ► I'm not thrilled about that personally.

00:38:30 ◼   ► It's like a makes sense to me.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Like the idea of pressing a physical button to get to Control Center is like kind of weird to me.

00:38:39 ◼   ► But you press the button and you get to Control Center,

00:38:43 ◼   ► or now you can get to that dock again, but you double click the crown, which is fine.

00:38:48 ◼   ► Because actually there's something about that which is quite logical to me

00:38:51 ◼   ► because it feels like a kind of multitasking thing.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Right.

00:38:55 ◼   ► And that double clicking the home button.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:58 ◼   ► There's something about that to me, which I don't know, that feels like it's a way to get to apps.

00:39:03 ◼   ► Like I can't really explain why I feel that way, but like, yeah, okay, I see that.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Because it's like I press that button to get to apps.

00:39:10 ◼   ► So if I press it twice, I get to my open apps.

00:39:13 ◼   ► Do you know what I mean?

00:39:14 ◼   ► Like there's something about that logically that makes sense.

00:39:16 ◼   ► Because it's like there's one button to get like to navigate between apps and the watch face.

00:39:23 ◼   ► And it's the crown.

00:39:24 ◼   ► But now, like the one of the reasons they've done all of this is because of the widgets thing,

00:39:28 ◼   ► which is now both swiping and moving the crown to get to the widgets.

00:39:35 ◼   ► For me, I feel like they should have just left the swipe where it was.

00:39:38 ◼   ► Like and the swipe brought up control center and you just use the crown for widgets.

00:39:43 ◼   ► Like I'm not, I don't really feel like it needs two ways to get to the same like piece of UI.

00:39:50 ◼   ► But clearly they want people to discover this.

00:39:53 ◼   ► So they're like just throwing as many things into it as possible.

00:39:56 ◼   ► I want to read a quote from Alex about the widget smart stack.

00:40:01 ◼   ► So this is kind of like when you scroll up and the widgets are there.

00:40:05 ◼   ► In a word, excellent.

00:40:06 ◼   ► I love the smart stack and I think this new feature will be opening up a flood of increased

00:40:10 ◼   ► usage of Apple watch apps throughout the system.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Because realistically what's going on here is it's like the Siri watch face on steroids, right?

00:40:19 ◼   ► Like realistically you can say I want to use these widgets, but Apple's going to serve them

00:40:26 ◼   ► to you in the way that it thinks you want, except for the ones that you pin, which you also pin

00:40:30 ◼   ► some to the top.

00:40:31 ◼   ► I'm excited to try this out.

00:40:33 ◼   ► I'm hoping that it is as useful as I want it to be.

00:40:36 ◼   ► But Alex seems pretty jazzed on it.

00:40:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I haven't spent a lot of time sort of playing around with watchOS channels because

00:40:43 ◼   ► as Alex mentioned in the story, like it really comes down to the apps that we use offering

00:40:49 ◼   ► widgets.

00:40:50 ◼   ► And like right now I have the music widget, the reminders one, and you know, very basic

00:40:56 ◼   ► sort of built in stuff.

00:40:57 ◼   ► I think that's going to change once we have more third party options.

00:41:01 ◼   ► For example, the weather widgets, right?

00:41:03 ◼   ► I don't even, I'm not even sure there's any shortcuts widgets at the moment in watchOS

00:41:10 ◼   ► 10.

00:41:10 ◼   ► But I think I'm going to use it.

00:41:13 ◼   ► I just, it's more of a problem of remembering that now I'm supposed to do that, that I can

00:41:19 ◼   ► scroll up to see widgets.

00:41:21 ◼   ► And yeah, the reminders one has been really useful.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Just being able to tap on the today widget and sort of immediately see a list of

00:41:31 ◼   ► my tasks due today.

00:41:33 ◼   ► But for example, I haven't tried the time area once yet.

00:41:37 ◼   ► I know that the latest beta of time area added widgets and I don't have any caret widgets.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I'm sort of just waiting for more third party options before I really commit, I guess.

00:41:48 ◼   ► Steven, how are you feeling about this stuff with watchOS?

00:41:51 ◼   ► I want to install it so bad.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I haven't yet.

00:41:56 ◼   ► Why haven't you, if you want to do it so bad?

00:41:58 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:41:59 ◼   ► I just haven't.

00:42:00 ◼   ► I haven't.

00:42:01 ◼   ► I mean, your watch has such a big battery life.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Like what, you know what I mean?

00:42:04 ◼   ► Like the beta is not going to hurt.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Yeah, that's true.

00:42:07 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:42:08 ◼   ► Maybe I, maybe I jump on board, but take one for the team.

00:42:12 ◼   ► I haven't tried it.

00:42:13 ◼   ► Right.

00:42:13 ◼   ► But I never loved the rotate the crown and things happen on the watch face.

00:42:20 ◼   ► And I just, I wonder if that's the right move.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Cause it used to be, what was that feature used to be called?

00:42:25 ◼   ► You could like roll back a clock face, time travel, go through time, time travel, time

00:42:29 ◼   ► travel, time travel, and I don't know.

00:42:32 ◼   ► So that was kind of a weird interaction and easily done accidentally.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Also swipe though.

00:42:37 ◼   ► Like you can just swipe, like that's your album.

00:42:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:40 ◼   ► But I don't want, what I'm trying to get to is I think I accidentally did time travel

00:42:45 ◼   ► a lot and I don't, I don't want to accidentally go into widgets either.

00:42:49 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:42:51 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:42:52 ◼   ► Maybe I'll install it and report back next week.

00:42:54 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:42:55 ◼   ► I'm super intrigued.

00:42:56 ◼   ► Like, as I said at the time, like I'm happy they're doing stuff.

00:42:58 ◼   ► This wasn't exactly what I was hoping and looking for.

00:43:02 ◼   ► Like I was actually kind of hoping for something a bit more fundamental, but maybe the new

00:43:07 ◼   ► design, like that new kind of like watch OS design of apps might make the whole operating

00:43:12 ◼   ► system just feel different anyway.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:14 ◼   ► Some of the examples that Alex shows, like they do look really different and that is

00:43:18 ◼   ► kind of cool, but I'm holding out.

00:43:22 ◼   ► I'm like, I'm reserving judgment.

00:43:24 ◼   ► I do think I'm going to dig it, but it is going to take some time to get used to.

00:43:28 ◼   ► The way that this is working and, and I'm, I'm not a hundred percent sold that they've

00:43:34 ◼   ► set these buttons up in a way that I'm going to find pleasing.

00:43:36 ◼   ► I also wanted to touch on a couple of macOS features from John's article.

00:43:40 ◼   ► John says no single Sonoma feature has had an immediate effect on how I use my Mac as

00:43:47 ◼   ► interactive desktop widgets.

00:43:48 ◼   ► I want to try this so bad.

00:43:50 ◼   ► I want to try this so bad.

00:43:51 ◼   ► Me too.

00:43:52 ◼   ► Especially while with stage manager, because clicking anywhere on your desktop hides all

00:43:56 ◼   ► of your open windows and activates your widgets in full color.

00:43:59 ◼   ► As a stage manager user, I'm very excited about this and I got to hand it to Apple again,

00:44:06 ◼   ► like looking at John's screenshots, absolute genius move to do the iPhone widgets thing

00:44:11 ◼   ► because they are just like so many Mac apps are just not going to do this.

00:44:18 ◼   ► Like they're just not going to do it, but their iPhone counterparts do have them.

00:44:22 ◼   ► And so this is just like a genius way.

00:44:25 ◼   ► Look at how many widgets John has compared to how many like interactive widgets, like

00:44:30 ◼   ► new widget types I've got like on my iPhone, but like this new feature of macOS, like widgets

00:44:35 ◼   ► on the desktop, you can just have all of them because you can just, it works right currently.

00:44:39 ◼   ► So yeah, I think this is super, super cool.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I'm very excited about this.

00:44:43 ◼   ► These screenshots all have giant John energy, like so many widgets, so many things in the

00:44:49 ◼   ► docs, so many things happening.

00:44:51 ◼   ► And I don't even, you know, like I know some reviewers will like, they like, they will

00:44:56 ◼   ► like pre-fill stuff.

00:44:57 ◼   ► So like you can show all the features.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Like I feel like in Jason's, he has like a similar screenshot where it's just like stuff

00:45:03 ◼   ► all over the place to kind of show all the things that can happen.

00:45:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:06 ◼   ► But I just feel like that's not faked for John's.

00:45:09 ◼   ► Like that's just what John's preferred desktop is.

00:45:12 ◼   ► John has actually been working on Sonoma since the very first beta at WWDC.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:45:18 ◼   ► Like he has two Macs, one for production for doing like audio hijack and podcast stuff.

00:45:22 ◼   ► But otherwise he's doing too.

00:45:24 ◼   ► He works on Sonoma like all day and it's his real setup.

00:45:30 ◼   ► And it makes me really jealous because I really want to have those widgets there.

00:45:34 ◼   ► I forgot to mention one thing about watchOS and I want to mention it in case I forget.

00:45:39 ◼   ► So, you know, they're getting rid of the dock feature on the watch that lets you switch

00:45:46 ◼   ► the dock from recent to your favorite apps, right?

00:45:50 ◼   ► Oh, why?

00:45:51 ◼   ► What are they changing it to?

00:45:52 ◼   ► It's just going to be recent.

00:45:54 ◼   ► The dock is...

00:45:54 ◼   ► No!

00:45:55 ◼   ► No!

00:45:56 ◼   ► Why are you making it worse twice?

00:45:58 ◼   ► No!

00:45:58 ◼   ► Oh, hold on.

00:46:01 ◼   ► I'm not the one to blame here.

00:46:03 ◼   ► No, not you.

00:46:04 ◼   ► I'm shouting at Apple.

00:46:05 ◼   ► This is not directed at you.

00:46:06 ◼   ► So Alex wrote this in the story.

00:46:07 ◼   ► The dock is basically, it should be renamed to App Switcher because that's what it is.

00:46:13 ◼   ► The dock is going to be an app switcher for recent apps.

00:46:16 ◼   ► But I heard that if you have favorites in watchOS 9, in theory when you migrate to watchOS 10

00:46:29 ◼   ► at some point, whether it's the beta season or in September, those favorites should become

00:46:37 ◼   ► app icons at the top of the home screen.

00:46:42 ◼   ► So you will get those favorites.

00:46:46 ◼   ► They will be placed at the very top of the honeycomb sort of grid of apps.

00:46:54 ◼   ► I gotta say, this didn't work for me.

00:46:56 ◼   ► This transition, this migration didn't work for me with watchOS 10 beta 1.

00:47:01 ◼   ► So I lost all of my favorites.

00:47:03 ◼   ► But I heard that in theory, that's the way it should work.

00:47:06 ◼   ► But there isn't a way to set new favorites?

00:47:09 ◼   ► I guess you can manually...

00:47:11 ◼   ► Well, the concept of favorites is gone, right?

00:47:17 ◼   ► There's no way in settings to say these are my favorite apps.

00:47:24 ◼   ► Like that's gone completely.

00:47:26 ◼   ► But to sort of ease the transition, they're going to take your existing favorites and

00:47:33 ◼   ► at the very least, they're going to put them at the top.

00:47:36 ◼   ► But this is so strange to me because it's like what?

00:47:38 ◼   ► You get a museum, like whatever your favorite apps were in 2023,

00:47:45 ◼   ► they were your favorite apps forever in watchOS and you'll never be able to change them?

00:47:49 ◼   ► That's very strange.

00:47:50 ◼   ► Well, no, you can always...

00:47:53 ◼   ► So maybe I'm not explaining myself well.

00:47:55 ◼   ► You can still rearrange the grid of apps on the home screen of the watch, however you want.

00:48:00 ◼   ► Oh, I see what you're saying.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Yeah, no, that sucks.

00:48:03 ◼   ► I know what you're saying, but that's just not a helpful thing.

00:48:07 ◼   ► They are also tweaking how the grid of apps works.

00:48:12 ◼   ► Now it always starts from the top and it scrolls on a single axis vertically.

00:48:20 ◼   ► It no longer sort of zooms around on the horizontal axis.

00:48:26 ◼   ► It's just a vertical grid and you spin the crown and just go up and down.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Just use the list view.

00:48:32 ◼   ► Yeah, this isn't great.

00:48:35 ◼   ► Like, I know what you're saying, but this is just not a great solution.

00:48:40 ◼   ► Realistically, for most people, for me, I only ever use four apps on my watch anyway,

00:48:45 ◼   ► so it's not going to change, right?

00:48:49 ◼   ► But still, anyway, as Steve Jobs once said, back to the Mac.

00:48:54 ◼   ► We were saying the John screenshots...

00:48:59 ◼   ► Yeah, John screenshots are just a wild thing.

00:49:01 ◼   ► We will get to the best one in a minute.

00:49:04 ◼   ► They're the best.

00:49:04 ◼   ► But so I've been using Sonoma on a secondary machine, right?

00:49:08 ◼   ► I got podcast record, so I can't put it on my primary.

00:49:10 ◼   ► I don't like when it's on the desktop.

00:49:13 ◼   ► I'm glad they're free of the tyranny of notification center, but dashboard was such a good idea.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Like, I don't like having them visible all the time.

00:49:24 ◼   ► And I know they fade out and they sort of color blend, but the visual complexity of it

00:49:30 ◼   ► is more than I want on the Mac.

00:49:32 ◼   ► And I wish there was a way they could just fly in like they used to.

00:49:35 ◼   ► Just use stage manager.

00:49:37 ◼   ► That's worse.

00:49:38 ◼   ► Everything's flying around.

00:49:40 ◼   ► No, because then you, instead of them flying in, you're landing onto them.

00:49:44 ◼   ► You know, it's great.

00:49:45 ◼   ► Anyway, that's my take.

00:49:47 ◼   ► I'm glad they're there, but they're in the wrong place.

00:49:49 ◼   ► Surely some enterprising developer will make some version of this, right?

00:49:54 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:49:56 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:49:56 ◼   ► It's much harder to change core system functionality than it used to be.

00:50:01 ◼   ► Just edit a P-list.

00:50:03 ◼   ► It's no problem.

00:50:03 ◼   ► Not all things work.

00:50:05 ◼   ► That is how it works.

00:50:06 ◼   ► There's a P-list for everything and I'm sure somebody will figure it out.

00:50:10 ◼   ► Just P-list.

00:50:12 ◼   ► What else is new in Sonoma?

00:50:14 ◼   ► I read John's story and I still, the only thing I remember is widgets.

00:50:17 ◼   ► Oh, you can do the moves on FaceTime and it shows you the effects.

00:50:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:25 ◼   ► This is the best screenshot in the article.

00:50:29 ◼   ► So John is sitting there in front of fireworks and he says, you know what you get when you

00:50:34 ◼   ► FaceTime with me?

00:50:35 ◼   ► Fireworks.

00:50:36 ◼   ► John.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:50:40 ◼   ► John.

00:50:40 ◼   ► These video conferencing features look good though in general.

00:50:44 ◼   ► Like the presenter overlay, the small screen sharing stuff that like they were just, you

00:50:49 ◼   ► can use the little green stoplight button to share a screen very easily to share an app,

00:50:54 ◼   ► I should say very easily.

00:50:56 ◼   ► And then there's also that like menu bar video conferencing control thing where you can turn

00:51:01 ◼   ► on and off those reactions.

00:51:02 ◼   ► I really can't wait for the first article that's written about like someone getting

00:51:08 ◼   ► fired and someone shows a thumbs up and then confetti explodes.

00:51:11 ◼   ► Like that's going to be so great.

00:51:12 ◼   ► I look forward to that happening and many articles being written about it.

00:51:18 ◼   ► But they do look good though, these features.

00:51:20 ◼   ► It's also, again, it's like that slow roll of COVID through these product features, like

00:51:26 ◼   ► it's still happening.

00:51:28 ◼   ► Like Apple and John mentioned some kind of like high bandwidth screen sharing thing that

00:51:35 ◼   ► exists now, which I don't really understand what that is, but it's all this like weird

00:51:41 ◼   ► little stuff that's existing in a, in a, in a like post there being a pandemic occurring

00:51:47 ◼   ► world.

00:51:48 ◼   ► Oh, the, this is also in our notes, Safari profiles.

00:51:52 ◼   ► I'm very excited about Safari profiles because it's like, it's like the evolution of tab

00:51:58 ◼   ► groups.

00:51:58 ◼   ► So there's also, as well as having tab groups, you can have this thing that sits on top of

00:52:02 ◼   ► them.

00:52:03 ◼   ► And so you can collect up, say different groups, say like personal work.

00:52:07 ◼   ► But the thing that excites me about the profiles thing is you could be signed into different

00:52:11 ◼   ► accounts.

00:52:12 ◼   ► Just like in Chrome.

00:52:13 ◼   ► So like I could be, yeah, so I could be on like Gmail in two different things, but I

00:52:21 ◼   ► can't find profiles on my iPhone.

00:52:25 ◼   ► So they are supposed to be there.

00:52:27 ◼   ► I don't know if they are, but what Apple said is it they're tied to focus modes or you can't

00:52:32 ◼   ► tie them to focus modes and they are supposed to be cross platform.

00:52:35 ◼   ► So I don't know if there is not there yet, but what I read is that they are supposed

00:52:39 ◼   ► to be on iPhone and iPad as well.

00:52:42 ◼   ► Wait, how do you set up a mic is right.

00:52:44 ◼   ► I can't find them on the iPhone at all.

00:52:46 ◼   ► Oh, maybe it's not.

00:52:48 ◼   ► Maybe it's not in the.

00:52:51 ◼   ► Oh yeah, they are in settings.

00:52:54 ◼   ► No, no, no, no.

00:52:54 ◼   ► Go to settings, Safari, scroll a bit and you're going to find profiles and you can create

00:53:00 ◼   ► a new profile.

00:53:01 ◼   ► Oh my God.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Why would you put them here?

00:53:03 ◼   ► Why is it here?

00:53:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:53:05 ◼   ► All right, great.

00:53:06 ◼   ► Okay.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Jury's a little out for me on the way that you access tab groups on the iPhone now.

00:53:13 ◼   ► That now it's like this scrolling list.

00:53:15 ◼   ► Like I'm not sure yet.

00:53:17 ◼   ► I'm not sure yet.

00:53:19 ◼   ► I love it.

00:53:19 ◼   ► I think it's much faster than before.

00:53:21 ◼   ► Like that has grown on me a lot and even just switching between normal mode and private

00:53:29 ◼   ► mode.

00:53:29 ◼   ► And just right now I have this garden tab group that I've been using for.

00:53:35 ◼   ► We're going to talk about this very soon, but I did a, I built with Sylvia.

00:53:40 ◼   ► We did it all ourselves, an irrigation system compatible with HomeKit and I am super proud

00:53:45 ◼   ► of it and did a lot of research and I have a tab group for it.

00:53:49 ◼   ► And now I think it's really cool how you can just swipe between them.

00:53:52 ◼   ► I like the gesture, but I understand why it takes some time to get used to it.

00:53:57 ◼   ► My overall kind of feeling on these betas in general is like, this is a good year.

00:54:03 ◼   ► There's like a lot of really interesting stuff.

00:54:06 ◼   ► And I'm very excited for when all of these, this is going to be one of those years where

00:54:12 ◼   ► it is going to take the apps releasing, right?

00:54:17 ◼   ► Like it's one of those years.

00:54:18 ◼   ► It's like widget year all over again.

00:54:19 ◼   ► You need to be able to experience a lot of different applications, even if you're on

00:54:23 ◼   ► the beta to like really experience what like interactive widgets can be.

00:54:27 ◼   ► And like all that kind of stuff.

00:54:30 ◼   ► So, but it's, there's some very exciting stuff here.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I think the one thing I wanted to mention, and again, please don't get upset at me in

00:54:38 ◼   ► case you didn't know it, in case you didn't know this, but my understanding is that the

00:54:43 ◼   ► stickers in Tab Back is not going to launch with 17.0, but it's coming in.

00:54:49 ◼   ► Why?

00:54:50 ◼   ► Why?

00:54:52 ◼   ► The stickers in Tab Back is coming in an update.

00:54:55 ◼   ► That's very weird.

00:54:58 ◼   ► I wonder if they're using it like the emoji is like a way to get people to update.

00:55:03 ◼   ► Or it's just not ready.

00:55:04 ◼   ► I mean, or it's just not ready.

00:55:06 ◼   ► I've been enjoying the stickers though.

00:55:07 ◼   ► Like I've been enjoying making stickers.

00:55:09 ◼   ► I really like the effects, like the puffy effect and the holographic effect.

00:55:12 ◼   ► Like the puffy one is good.

00:55:14 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:14 ◼   ► Like it's really good.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:17 ◼   ► I took a picture of my mom sleeping.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Like she fell asleep on the couch and she was kind of snoring and I took a picture of

00:55:24 ◼   ► her made a sticker.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:28 ◼   ► And I've been sending it to Sylvia for funsies.

00:55:32 ◼   ► It's terrible.

00:55:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:34 ◼   ► Terrible sound.

00:55:36 ◼   ► But yeah.

00:55:36 ◼   ► Oh, I mean, I do this.

00:55:37 ◼   ► Like, you know, I have like funny photos of Idina and a ton of stickers in Santa Ana.

00:55:41 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:55:42 ◼   ► See, that's what I meant.

00:55:43 ◼   ► Yes.

00:55:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:45 ◼   ► I think iOS as I mean, widgets is the story this year, right?

00:55:50 ◼   ► Widgets, standby, custom stickers to an extent.

00:55:55 ◼   ► Widgets is the main story everywhere, right?

00:55:59 ◼   ► On the iPad for the lock screen, on the Mac for the desktop, on the watch.

00:56:02 ◼   ► And then I guess the general feeling that I have, and maybe this is an idea that I need

00:56:07 ◼   ► to develop further for my review.

00:56:09 ◼   ► iOS 17 feels like a grab bag of features.

00:56:13 ◼   ► All nice to have taken together, but really widgets is the story.

00:56:18 ◼   ► And then there's every it's like it's widgets and then there's everything else.

00:56:23 ◼   ► That's the way I look at it.

00:56:25 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by ZocDoc.

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00:58:11 ◼   ► We thread in.

00:58:13 ◼   ► We thread in boys!

00:58:14 ◼   ► We thread in.

00:58:15 ◼   ► I want to get a vibe check from the two of you.

00:58:19 ◼   ► Steven, I want to start with you actually.

00:58:21 ◼   ► How are you feeling about threads?

00:58:23 ◼   ► Pretty good.

00:58:24 ◼   ► Oh.

00:58:25 ◼   ► I think.

00:58:26 ◼   ► It's complicated, but overall pretty good.

00:58:28 ◼   ► No way.

00:58:29 ◼   ► Okay.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Federico?

00:58:30 ◼   ► Buy check for threads.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Very good.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Very good.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Very good.

00:58:38 ◼   ► I still feel like personally conflicted a little about the company behind it.

00:58:44 ◼   ► But like if you sort of isolate the product.

00:58:47 ◼   ► We will use Instagram.

00:58:48 ◼   ► Like we made our choices.

00:58:50 ◼   ► So here's the thing.

00:58:51 ◼   ► I feel like, I feel like.

00:58:53 ◼   ► You know me, I've been a pretty vocal critic of Facebook and Meta over the years.

00:59:00 ◼   ► But.

00:59:01 ◼   ► But.

00:59:03 ◼   ► I have to recognize that there are greater evils and idiots than Meta and Zoc.

00:59:14 ◼   ► So like, you know.

00:59:18 ◼   ► Sure, it hasn't been my favorite company ever.

00:59:21 ◼   ► But they're not the worst anymore.

00:59:25 ◼   ► That's sort of the way I look at it.

00:59:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:28 ◼   ► And threads is very good.

00:59:30 ◼   ► Right?

00:59:32 ◼   ► I mean it's fun.

00:59:33 ◼   ► And it's like.

00:59:34 ◼   ► The thing is people are there.

00:59:36 ◼   ► So.

00:59:38 ◼   ► And brands.

00:59:39 ◼   ► But you know.

00:59:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:59:41 ◼   ► That's one of the things that I'm a little conflicted about.

00:59:44 ◼   ► I mean I echo everything you say about Meta.

00:59:47 ◼   ► But it is perhaps the most shocking example to me of the mashup of people I know from

00:59:54 ◼   ► the internet and people I know in real life.

00:59:57 ◼   ► And those groups aren't always super compatible.

01:00:02 ◼   ► And so I find it kind of.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Kind of a strange mix, right?

01:00:06 ◼   ► Like I can make a weird tech joke on Mastodon.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Everyone gets it.

01:00:09 ◼   ► But if I do it on threads, then my mother-in-law texts me wanting to know what my joke was

01:00:13 ◼   ► about.

01:00:13 ◼   ► And that's weird.

01:00:14 ◼   ► But was that different to Twitter?

01:00:15 ◼   ► Like these people want.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Twitter had a little bit of it.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Okay.

01:00:19 ◼   ► It's not a big deal.

01:00:19 ◼   ► I just have noticed it.

01:00:21 ◼   ► And you know that's probably true for a lot of people.

01:00:24 ◼   ► Like if you follow a bunch of like creators and influencers on Instagram, then they're

01:00:29 ◼   ► like mixed in with your cousins and your in-laws.

01:00:32 ◼   ► That's a bit weird.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Yes.

01:00:34 ◼   ► I can imagine why that's strange.

01:00:36 ◼   ► From my perspective, I haven't noticed that because none of my real life friends can use

01:00:42 ◼   ► threads at the moment.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Of course.

01:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Right.

01:00:48 ◼   ► How did you do it Federico?

01:00:50 ◼   ► Are you willing to divulge?

01:00:52 ◼   ► My long investment into being, into having a fake US App Store account continues to pay

01:01:01 ◼   ► off after 15 years that I started doing this.

01:01:06 ◼   ► It's the gift that keeps on giving.

01:01:07 ◼   ► So they're not locking you out.

01:01:10 ◼   ► Nope.

01:01:11 ◼   ► Like Meta's not locking you out.

01:01:12 ◼   ► No, you just got to download the app and you're good to go.

01:01:15 ◼   ► In fact, the few Italians I have seen on threads, they've done it two different ways.

01:01:22 ◼   ► Either my method, which is you have a US App Store account, or there was a test flight

01:01:28 ◼   ► link going around for a few days for a Threads test flight beta, which is no longer working,

01:01:34 ◼   ► but it was around for a couple of days.

01:01:36 ◼   ► And that's how I've seen a bunch of Italian blogs write about that using that link.

01:01:41 ◼   ► So they signed up, as long as you have the app on your device, you're good to go.

01:01:45 ◼   ► They don't lock you out.

01:01:46 ◼   ► I just wanted to share what I thought was a funny thing, like about the launch, because

01:01:51 ◼   ► I've heard people reference how like, oh, they were going to launch at such and such

01:01:55 ◼   ► time and then they brought it up.

01:01:57 ◼   ► No, they didn't.

01:01:58 ◼   ► They did not.

01:01:59 ◼   ► So I think the people at threads do not understand how iOS App Store pre-order works because

01:02:09 ◼   ► they set the threads as a pre-order, right?

01:02:13 ◼   ► And when you looked on, like they had that, remember that past thing that was in Instagram,

01:02:18 ◼   ► like you could go and you could see your name, flick around and say like available, whatever.

01:02:22 ◼   ► And for me, it was like I said, like available at 7 p.m. or something like that, because

01:02:27 ◼   ► that was when they wanted to launch it.

01:02:29 ◼   ► But they set it as a pre-order on the App Store, which means it was happening midnight

01:02:34 ◼   ► my time.

01:02:34 ◼   ► And there was nothing they could do about that because that's how pre-ordering the App

01:02:38 ◼   ► Store works.

01:02:39 ◼   ► Like it just automatically downloads when the day ticks over.

01:02:42 ◼   ► And then like at some point, they're like, hey, we decided to bring the launch forward.

01:02:46 ◼   ► It's like, no, you haven't.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Somebody realized that the app was going to be available in the United Kingdom and other

01:02:53 ◼   ► places, I'm sure.

01:02:54 ◼   ► Like because we were one of the earlier time zones where it was actually available.

01:02:58 ◼   ► So I just thought it was like a funny thing that like the day was going to take over and

01:03:01 ◼   ► then it's going to become available.

01:03:03 ◼   ► And so they just moved the launch up.

01:03:04 ◼   ► So everyone would get it at the same time.

01:03:06 ◼   ► I thought it was very funny.

01:03:07 ◼   ► That's how I assume this whole thing went down because they like I would have gotten

01:03:11 ◼   ► the app at midnight, but they were saying it wasn't going to launch for like another

01:03:15 ◼   ► seven hours.

01:03:15 ◼   ► It's just like that's I don't think that's how that works.

01:03:18 ◼   ► But that was fine.

01:03:19 ◼   ► Well, I do think there's also there's also a competing story that Threads launch was

01:03:25 ◼   ► brought up, but by weeks, not the weird App Store thing, but but also that they saw

01:03:30 ◼   ► they were they they brought it up and they were going to launch it on the fourth of July

01:03:33 ◼   ► weekend.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Or whatever.

01:03:34 ◼   ► Then they brought it forward like a day and then brought it forward apparently by like

01:03:38 ◼   ► seven hours.

01:03:39 ◼   ► But like those that last one with the hour change of in the same day, I think was because

01:03:43 ◼   ► of the App Store.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Agree.

01:03:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:45 ◼   ► This is pointless.

01:03:46 ◼   ► It's just something it's my little pet theory.

01:03:47 ◼   ► But the way they launched I just think is awesome and savage.

01:03:52 ◼   ► Like how they just saw the moment and just went for it.

01:03:56 ◼   ► And I got a lot of respect for like how they just saw a moment and then just mobilized

01:04:02 ◼   ► the company and just delivered it.

01:04:04 ◼   ► And delivered it to a point where they can support 100 million people in five days, which

01:04:10 ◼   ► is just like I don't even I don't understand how they were able to make that work and the

01:04:16 ◼   ► app be so reliable.

01:04:18 ◼   ► It's wild how they've scaled to the size that they have so quickly.

01:04:23 ◼   ► It is wild, but it's also it's Facebook, you know, so like if there's a company that I

01:04:29 ◼   ► mean, it's two companies that know infrastructure really well.

01:04:31 ◼   ► I think Facebook and Google much more than Twitter, of course, and much more than Apple

01:04:35 ◼   ► maybe.

01:04:35 ◼   ► This is what they do, right?

01:04:37 ◼   ► This is this is what they sell.

01:04:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:04:40 ◼   ► It's the they make a living out of being available and they run WhatsApp.

01:04:44 ◼   ► Probably the only tech company that could pull this off, I reckon.

01:04:48 ◼   ► Probably, yes.

01:04:49 ◼   ► Because I don't think anybody else is so tuned to dealing with this exact problem.

01:04:55 ◼   ► Right.

01:04:56 ◼   ► Like I just I feel like maybe they're the only ones that could do this.

01:05:01 ◼   ► Like for me, I'm really looking forward to this proposed following feed because I don't

01:05:06 ◼   ► follow a ton of people.

01:05:08 ◼   ► And so I'm seeing like quite a lot of like content that they want me to see.

01:05:15 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:05:16 ◼   ► Like I feel like I'm bumping into the algorithm quite frequently.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:20 ◼   ► Because my following count is pretty low.

01:05:22 ◼   ► And so I get it.

01:05:24 ◼   ► Like I get the idea of showing me stuff and I see stuff that's interesting to me.

01:05:28 ◼   ► Like I do.

01:05:29 ◼   ► But I would also but like I feel like sometimes I'm not seeing the posts from people that

01:05:35 ◼   ► follow because they're giving me too much algorithm content.

01:05:38 ◼   ► And I feel like they still get it.

01:05:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:05:40 ◼   ► They still get a tune to balance, I think.

01:05:41 ◼   ► I think they have and it's been better.

01:05:44 ◼   ► Right.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Like I'm seeing way less stuff that I'm like absolutely not or actively not interested

01:05:50 ◼   ► in.

01:05:51 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:05:51 ◼   ► Like, yeah, like as a sucker, unlike I don't know why you're showing me this, but now I

01:05:55 ◼   ► am seeing things that are related to my interests, but not my choice to follow them.

01:06:00 ◼   ► Like I'm seeing a lot of Formula One content and I don't really follow a lot of Formula

01:06:05 ◼   ► One content creators or accounts, but like Instagram knows enough about me.

01:06:09 ◼   ► But they know that.

01:06:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:11 ◼   ► But they know that about you.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Right.

01:06:12 ◼   ► Which is fine.

01:06:13 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:14 ◼   ► Do you get in the algorithmic feed, do you get those sort of lifestyle influencers on

01:06:23 ◼   ► threads?

01:06:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I've got quite a few of those.

01:06:26 ◼   ► And just like the general meme accounts.

01:06:28 ◼   ► Here's the success to wealth.

01:06:30 ◼   ► Wake up in the morning, like, why are you showing me these people?

01:06:33 ◼   ► There is a lot of engagement thirst on threads in like a way I have not experienced on a

01:06:38 ◼   ► social platform before.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Like there's a lot of like, hey, share your thing with me, you know?

01:06:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Like what's your X, Y, Z?

01:06:47 ◼   ► I've seen a bunch of posts where like, good morning, everyone on threads.

01:06:51 ◼   ► What's everyone up to?

01:06:52 ◼   ► It's like, have you used Twitter at all for the past 15 years?

01:06:57 ◼   ► It's like, really?

01:06:59 ◼   ► Federica, I think a lot of these people maybe have, haven't really.

01:07:02 ◼   ► Maybe that's the thing.

01:07:03 ◼   ► Maybe they haven't.

01:07:05 ◼   ► Maybe.

01:07:05 ◼   ► But also though, you know what, like for me, I prefer that to like, oh my God, have you

01:07:12 ◼   ► seen this news?

01:07:13 ◼   ► You know?

01:07:14 ◼   ► But I mean, anything.

01:07:15 ◼   ► I know what I would prefer to receive.

01:07:17 ◼   ► Alright, alright.

01:07:17 ◼   ► So anything is literally preferable to Nazis.

01:07:22 ◼   ► On a social network, right?

01:07:24 ◼   ► So it's a pretty low bar in terms of what kind of algorithmic feed you want to put together.

01:07:31 ◼   ► I mean, and that's the one thing that I want to call out about threads is that, you know,

01:07:37 ◼   ► at the very least, they have a proper content moderation policy in place and you cannot

01:07:45 ◼   ► say certain things and you cannot show certain things.

01:07:49 ◼   ► And they have an actual team of professionals that can handle this kind of stuff instead

01:07:55 ◼   ► of just, you know, Elon Musk going on Twitter and being like, you know, saying cisgender

01:08:01 ◼   ► is a slur.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Like it's a pretty stark difference in terms of the kind of policy that they have, these

01:08:07 ◼   ► two networks.

01:08:08 ◼   ► So, you know, that's I think what contributes to my feeling of being like, you know, this

01:08:17 ◼   ► is kind of nice compared to Twitter because here's the thing.

01:08:20 ◼   ► So I've read about this this morning.

01:08:22 ◼   ► I love Mastodon, right?

01:08:25 ◼   ► And I have an incredible audience of people there and I feel very lucky that we moved

01:08:31 ◼   ► to Mastodon at exactly the right time with Mac stories, that we have our own instance

01:08:35 ◼   ► that we control and that a lot of tech people are there.

01:08:41 ◼   ► And I'm super happy about that as a creator.

01:08:46 ◼   ► But as putting myself in the shoes of someone who wants to follow other people, none of

01:08:54 ◼   ► the folks I used to follow on Twitter, music Twitter, video games, Twitter, Pokemon, Twitter,

01:09:00 ◼   ► none of those people, none of those content creators ever moved from Twitter to Mastodon.

01:09:09 ◼   ► And so in going to Mastodon, I feel like I pretty much built a following list that was

01:09:19 ◼   ► sort of a single topic.

01:09:21 ◼   ► I opened my Mastodon timeline and all I see is tech, Apple and Google stuff.

01:09:28 ◼   ► And Threads feels refreshing because all the people I used to follow, music, blogs, artists,

01:09:37 ◼   ► Pokemon, Twitter, video games, Twitter, video games, journalists, like all of those people

01:09:43 ◼   ► are here and they're posting like they're using it.

01:09:46 ◼   ► And I don't have to open Twitter anymore just to check on those folks.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I don't have to see the ads that Twitter wants to show me.

01:09:57 ◼   ► I don't have to like I opened Twitter a couple of weeks ago and I saw a recommended interview

01:10:05 ◼   ► with Andrew Tate or some idiot of that kind.

01:10:09 ◼   ► It's like, I don't, I just, it's upsetting.

01:10:13 ◼   ► It's so bad.

01:10:15 ◼   ► It's literally become the hellscape that we always knew it was going to be.

01:10:20 ◼   ► And that's why I think Threads is like, it feels like a positive thing right now.

01:10:27 ◼   ► Right now, they may ruin it very soon, but right now in this very moment, it feels like

01:10:33 ◼   ► a nice thing to have because it's like, it's what Twitter used to be, but without Elon Musk.

01:10:38 ◼   ► And, uh, yeah, you know, that's sort of how I would describe it.

01:10:44 ◼   ► I hope that they're able to do what they are aiming to try and do, which is to set it apart

01:10:53 ◼   ► a little bit.

01:10:54 ◼   ► Like they're being very like open and clear about how news is not a focus for them.

01:11:02 ◼   ► Where like for Twitter, it clearly always was right.

01:11:05 ◼   ► Like the easiest way to get verified on Twitter at a certain point was to work for a news

01:11:11 ◼   ► organization because Twitter would just ordain anybody who worked at a news organization

01:11:17 ◼   ► with verification, right?

01:11:19 ◼   ► You just had to work there and you'd get it.

01:11:20 ◼   ► And like, and that I think pushed a lot of journalists to the platform of all kinds and

01:11:27 ◼   ► just like really made Twitter like a thing for news and less about what it was, which

01:11:33 ◼   ► was like, what's happening, you know, or like, what are you up to?

01:11:38 ◼   ► What are you doing?

01:11:39 ◼   ► Rather than like what news is going on in the world.

01:11:43 ◼   ► And I think that there is a distinction there, which I think is pretty important.

01:11:47 ◼   ► And so I do hope that like they're able to try and not wait so heavily to news.

01:11:55 ◼   ► Like clearly news will be occurring and people will be able to share whatever they want.

01:12:01 ◼   ► But I just think that there is like a mindset and approach difference, which I think is

01:12:06 ◼   ► a better one.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Like I think it's more important really for like people to connect with each other about

01:12:13 ◼   ► things that they're interested in rather than having like another place for news organizations

01:12:19 ◼   ► to just share their news all the time.

01:12:21 ◼   ► Like we just go read the news when we want to get the news like that.

01:12:25 ◼   ► That's very much my approach.

01:12:26 ◼   ► I'm not saying that people have to be like shut off from the world, but like just go

01:12:32 ◼   ► get the news when you want to get the news or like hear about the news because your friends

01:12:36 ◼   ► spoke about it or like, you know, that kind of thing.

01:12:38 ◼   ► I feel like that's better than like, oh, here's your for you tab of trending news and here's

01:12:45 ◼   ► this news and you want some more news?

01:12:47 ◼   ► Here's some news.

01:12:48 ◼   ► Like I just I think that for me was what really wore me down on Twitter over time.

01:12:54 ◼   ► And so I kind of hope that Threads is able to approach things differently, like not to

01:13:00 ◼   ► not have it.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:01 ◼   ► And it's not like they're like, hey, journalists go away.

01:13:05 ◼   ► Right.

01:13:05 ◼   ► Like they're not doing that.

01:13:07 ◼   ► But it's I think it's just like a focus difference, which I think is nice, I think.

01:13:14 ◼   ► Maybe I'm being too idealistic.

01:13:17 ◼   ► Maybe I'm like I think they're being idealistic and maybe I'm just going along with them.

01:13:21 ◼   ► But I just hope that they're able to do something like that.

01:13:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I think ultimately any service that looks like Twitter will swing towards news

01:13:32 ◼   ► and current events because the format is so good for that.

01:13:36 ◼   ► Short form text images, short form video.

01:13:40 ◼   ► And so I think that the march of news will happen kind of regardless of whether you want

01:13:45 ◼   ► it or not. But I think at least the way Threads is structured so far, maybe it'll be easier

01:13:52 ◼   ► to avoid.

01:13:52 ◼   ► Like they don't have a trending thing and maybe they will at some point.

01:13:56 ◼   ► I'm sure Twitter algorithmically tailored itself to news.

01:14:01 ◼   ► Like I'm not saying to anger.

01:14:02 ◼   ► I know a lot of people say to anger and I'm not sure that they made that decision

01:14:06 ◼   ► purposefully, but I think that the site just did it.

01:14:10 ◼   ► Right.

01:14:11 ◼   ► But like I think that they waited news very heavily and maybe if you don't wait news as

01:14:17 ◼   ► heavily, like obviously it still breaks in, but maybe it's not so prevalent.

01:14:22 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:14:23 ◼   ► Like that that's my hope.

01:14:25 ◼   ► Whether it happens or not, who could tell?

01:14:27 ◼   ► Time.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Time will tell.

01:14:29 ◼   ► Because I do think this is going to eat Twitter.

01:14:32 ◼   ► Like I think this is it.

01:14:33 ◼   ► Obviously this is too soon to call, but if I was going to put my money down, this is

01:14:39 ◼   ► the one.

01:14:40 ◼   ► Seems like it's going to be.

01:14:42 ◼   ► And again, it goes back to the scale conversation.

01:14:45 ◼   ► Like if anyone can do this currently, it's going to be meta.

01:14:49 ◼   ► And building it a top, Instagram gave him such a head start.

01:14:52 ◼   ► Like no one's going to no one's going to catch him.

01:14:55 ◼   ► Not easily.

01:14:56 ◼   ► Oh, nobody catches this.

01:14:58 ◼   ► Like it's not possible.

01:15:00 ◼   ► Surely.

01:15:02 ◼   ► Right.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Like who could launch a service that would be compelling enough?

01:15:06 ◼   ► There's no one that can do this.

01:15:08 ◼   ► Like to launch a service and it grow to this scale.

01:15:12 ◼   ► Like really, if meta can't do this, then nobody will be able to do it.

01:15:17 ◼   ► I feel like.

01:15:18 ◼   ► Right.

01:15:20 ◼   ► Like who could launch a new company today in 2023 that's like Twitter and take over

01:15:29 ◼   ► Twitter's user base and become the de facto standard.

01:15:31 ◼   ► Like it's just.

01:15:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:15:32 ◼   ► I can't imagine a new company doing it.

01:15:35 ◼   ► What was it going to be?

01:15:36 ◼   ► Blue Sky?

01:15:37 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

01:15:38 ◼   ► Like no offense, but like it's not going to happen.

01:15:40 ◼   ► Right.

01:15:40 ◼   ► Like like it's meta can do it because they have the social graph already.

01:15:46 ◼   ► Like it already exists.

01:15:48 ◼   ► And then they have the ability to tell everyone.

01:15:52 ◼   ► Like I think I saw something where they were like, you know, they were super pleased about

01:15:56 ◼   ► where they got to because they hadn't even started to promote it in the ways that they

01:15:59 ◼   ► can promote it.

01:16:00 ◼   ► Right.

01:16:01 ◼   ► Like Instagram and the Facebook app.

01:16:04 ◼   ► I don't know about the Facebook app.

01:16:06 ◼   ► I don't use it, but like Instagram is not very heavy on telling you to go like I don't

01:16:11 ◼   ► think Instagram ever told me that threads existed.

01:16:14 ◼   ► No, right and so like they haven't even done any of that yet, and so no one has this.

01:16:21 ◼   ► What they have and I feel like the app is good enough.

01:16:24 ◼   ► I feel like they will be able to build an app that is as good, if not better than the

01:16:27 ◼   ► Twitter app right and then also if they do pull like go through with the activity pub

01:16:34 ◼   ► thing like this is a slam dunk.

01:16:36 ◼   ► Like I feel like it's no one can catch this and I feel like slowly Twitter is just gonna

01:16:42 ◼   ► fade away to this.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Maybe I'm like, you know, hit me back on this in a year, but that's kind of where I'm feeling

01:16:49 ◼   ► right now.

01:16:49 ◼   ► Yeah, I agree with that.

01:16:51 ◼   ► I think you're right.

01:16:53 ◼   ► I think there was a there was an opportunity here and meta took it and they ran with it

01:16:58 ◼   ► and they didn't even try actually.

01:16:59 ◼   ► They just they sprinted with it.

01:17:02 ◼   ► And and it's working and I honestly I feel like it the way I think this will go is this

01:17:10 ◼   ► will hurt Twitter and Mosseri can say whatever they want about like we're not trying to do

01:17:17 ◼   ► news.

01:17:17 ◼   ► They will do news at some point and I will be shocked if the way this the way this will

01:17:24 ◼   ► shake out in my mind is Instagram will continue to be the place for following your friends

01:17:32 ◼   ► and you know celebrities and what they do with reels and stories.

01:17:36 ◼   ► But on threads I think what they will do is they will incorporate the close friends feature

01:17:44 ◼   ► so you will be able to post status updates for just your friends.

01:17:48 ◼   ► But you also be able to post updates about like your interests or if you're if you have

01:17:55 ◼   ► a website, you know more Twitter style news updates.

01:17:59 ◼   ► So I think they will have to do that and they're not doing it now but I think once they realize

01:18:07 ◼   ► so we kill Twitter.

01:18:08 ◼   ► Well it's it's obvious right because it's what they always wanted right with all the

01:18:15 ◼   ► different strategies they've tried with Facebook to sort of you know convince publishers to

01:18:21 ◼   ► to have content on Facebook and I mean I can name two or three different things that tried

01:18:27 ◼   ► over the years remember Facebook paper for example and now they have this massive opportunity

01:18:35 ◼   ► because they own the network that journalists want to use and that press organizations wants

01:18:41 ◼   ► to use and it's such a sweet sweet opportunity to pass it up.

01:18:45 ◼   ► There is one issue with that which is governments now trying to convince Facebook to pay publishers

01:18:53 ◼   ► and Facebook are saying we're not going to do that and so like I think that they don't

01:18:58 ◼   ► want to be in the we're working with journalists business but I think that they will be happy

01:19:04 ◼   ► to be in the we provide the pipes business right like right like I can't imagine them

01:19:10 ◼   ► starting a news organization initiative again.

01:19:13 ◼   ► I think they want to be the place where journalists hang out and like break news but they don't

01:19:21 ◼   ► necessarily want to be a publishing platform for their finished work like that was kind

01:19:27 ◼   ► of the beauty and I followed a lot of journalists on Twitter like political journalists space

01:19:30 ◼   ► journalists obviously a lot of tech ones I had lists set up for these different groups

01:19:34 ◼   ► and what was great about it is not only did you see like oh hey I have this little tidbit

01:19:38 ◼   ► I'm going to share here and you know 20 minutes later okay here's the article I wrote you

01:19:43 ◼   ► know on this website go check it out but you also got to see the conversations between

01:19:48 ◼   ► the people in these fields and that's just gone currently I mean a lot of that's still

01:19:54 ◼   ► on Twitter but for those of us who aren't you know we don't have a place to see that

01:19:56 ◼   ► sort of thing so I think if Meta can walk that line with threads I think it'll be it'll

01:20:03 ◼   ► be successful in that regard and like there's already a lot of those journalists who I used

01:20:07 ◼   ► to follow on Twitter who have popped up and who are basically treating it like they did

01:20:12 ◼   ► Twitter and that's that's exciting to see well I'm sure we will talk much more about

01:20:16 ◼   ► threads over the coming weeks it's gonna evolve it's gonna it's gonna change it's gonna evolve

01:20:20 ◼   ► yeah it's gonna evolve into a rich tapestry because it's like a thread oh I didn't get it

01:20:26 ◼   ► didn't get it we were trying to avoid the thread puns and you just had to go there okay if you want

01:20:33 ◼   ► to find a link to the stuff we spoke about including all the great coverage of the public

01:20:38 ◼   ► betas on max stories and six colors check out the links in your podcast player they're also

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01:20:56 ◼   ► feedback or follow up via a form on our website links to both are in the show notes you can find

01:21:02 ◼   ► us all online mike is the host of a bunch of other great shows here on the relay fm network

01:21:08 ◼   ► and he is the co-founder of cortex brand you can find federico's work at max stories dot net

01:21:15 ◼   ► and he is on mastodon as vatichi at max stories dot net mike is also in mastodon no follow me on

01:21:22 ◼   ► threads man i'm i mike on threads okay we're gonna do threads okay all right yeah i want to do

01:21:28 ◼   ► threads now thread me mike is i mike at threads federico is at vatichi on threads i am at ismh

01:21:37 ◼   ► 86 we're gonna talk about that in the pro show i want to talk about that in the pro show what

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