Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 449. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:16 ◼   ► ZocDoc and Fast Growing Trees. My name is Mike Hurley and I had the pleasure of being joined by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Buona sera Mike.

00:00:23 ◼   ► Buona sera Federico.

00:00:24 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:25 ◼   ► Uh, bien? No, bu- no.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Ben.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Stop bien.

00:00:30 ◼   ► Stop bien.

00:00:31 ◼   ► I was hovering.

00:00:33 ◼   ► I was just bouncing around from place to place. It's kind of close to Italy.

00:00:37 ◼   ► You almost got it. It's also my pleasure to introduce Mr. Steven Hackett. Hello, Steven.

00:00:43 ◼   ► Hey, y'all. What's up?

00:00:45 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a pretty standard American sanitation, I think. Yeah.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Hi.

00:00:49 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:50 ◼   ► I have an update from the Mike Hurley tip line.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Ooh, Apple lawyers are coming after you.

00:00:58 ◼   ► No, this one is more of just a confirmation. There isn't really any new information. I just wanted to talk about this today because I had a funny thought on upgrade.

00:01:08 ◼   ► I referred to these people as my informants and then I thought today about anonymous informant. So now referred to henceforth as my AI.

00:01:16 ◼   ► So my one of my AI has told me that the beat studio buds plus I think we have something we already knew.

00:01:24 ◼   ► It's going to be available in black and gold in an ivory color in transparent or to start on the 17th of May at 8 a.m.

00:01:30 ◼   ► And the release date is the 18th of May. I don't really think there's anything new here.

00:01:34 ◼   ► Are you going to get sued because of this?

00:01:36 ◼   ► I don't know. People shouldn't give me this information, should they? If they don't want me to do anything with it.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Are we protected like by the law that protects the press? Are we the press?

00:01:45 ◼   ► Who's the press?

00:01:46 ◼   ► In this case.

00:01:47 ◼   ► You and Steven or me? I don't really consider myself as press.

00:01:51 ◼   ► I mean we do have insurance in case we're sued for libel. So there's that.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Do we? Is that libel though? I don't think this is libel.

00:02:00 ◼   ► It's not libel. Libel would be like, I'm probably going to give an example. You say something bad about somebody.

00:02:06 ◼   ► We talked about the transparent ones, right? How awesome they look.

00:02:10 ◼   ► I mean we talked about this whole thing to be honest. None of this is really new information at all.

00:02:15 ◼   ► But this just came into me via the tip line so I figured I'd just share it.

00:02:19 ◼   ► One of your many AIs.

00:02:22 ◼   ► One of my AIs out there in the world.

00:02:25 ◼   ► Yeah. Okay. Thank you. So as the, what would you be then on the receiving end of the tip line?

00:02:33 ◼   ► Are you the tipper? Who are you in this case?

00:02:36 ◼   ► The tip-ee.

00:02:37 ◼   ► The tip-ee.

00:02:38 ◼   ► I'm the tip-ee.

00:02:40 ◼   ► That's me. I'm the tip-ee.

00:02:43 ◼   ► The tip-ee.

00:02:47 ◼   ► I like T-I-P-P-I-E by the way for this. I think that's good.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I was questioning the spelling in my mind. I guess we'll know in a week if you're right or not.

00:02:58 ◼   ► 17th is what, a week from today?

00:03:01 ◼   ► Yeah. Well I mean, again, it's not me. I'm merely a conduit. I have no way of confirming any of this information.

00:03:06 ◼   ► But you're also an editor. You're an editor.

00:03:09 ◼   ► I can't edit this. There's no way for me to prove any of this.

00:03:13 ◼   ► I have no, I'm just sharing this, you know. What does Mark Gurman say? According to the people? The people said? Yeah, the people said this.

00:03:23 ◼   ► The AIs said this to me. There's nothing I can do about it.

00:03:26 ◼   ► The couching he has to do at Bloomberg is incredible sometimes.

00:03:29 ◼   ► I love it.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Riding way around his elbow to explain something.

00:03:33 ◼   ► Well, good. Good for beats. Way to go. Everything should be, have a transparent option. Everything.

00:03:40 ◼   ► I agree. Yes.

00:03:42 ◼   ► We had a question from listener Ashley and I put it in follow up because Federico, you recently shared how you have gone back to the Mac using an M2 MacBook Air and how, you know, you've documented your setup for us over the last few months as you've settled into your new office.

00:03:59 ◼   ► Ashley wrote, since you guys are all using laptops as desktops, what stands are you using? Are your laptops opened or closed? What about you, Mike?

00:04:09 ◼   ► So I have two areas, right? So I have my MacBook Air on my main desk and then I have my MacBook Pro, which is permanently docked where I record.

00:04:19 ◼   ► The MacBook Pro is in a book ark.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Where's the iMac now? Where's the iMac? Is it gone?

00:04:24 ◼   ► The iMac's in a box at the moment.

00:04:25 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:04:26 ◼   ► The iMac will eventually find a place at home.

00:04:29 ◼   ► Yeah, good.

00:04:30 ◼   ► But that's going to come later for the iMac. The MacBook Pro is in a book ark from 12 South and it's just tucked away behind the lamp and it's just there. It's all plugged in all the time.

00:04:41 ◼   ► The MacBook Air, with the way that I have the desk set up, the easiest thing for me to do is just to plug it in and just place it down flat on the desk.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Like I have like a perfect space for it. That makes it easy to get it in and out.

00:04:54 ◼   ► Like if I had a book ark, I'd have to kind of like angle it awkwardly. It just wouldn't really work. So it just works.

00:05:00 ◼   ► Just plug it in and put it down and that's it. I don't like to have laptops open as a second screen.

00:05:05 ◼   ► I have the book ark standing on the right there in the right side of the desk.

00:05:14 ◼   ► MacBook Air in clamshell mode inside of it, because I also don't like to see a secondary display.

00:05:21 ◼   ► If iPadOS 17, maybe we're going to talk about this later, if iPadOS 17 does introduce clamshell mode, I will need to think about this because right now it only fits the MacBook Air.

00:05:34 ◼   ► It wouldn't fit, I don't think, an iPad Pro with a Magic Keyboard inside of it.

00:05:41 ◼   ► But right now, as I'm Mac only at the moment, or Mac first I guess at the moment, it fits perfectly. The MacBook Air and a single cable, as we described previously,

00:05:54 ◼   ► going into the MacBook Air that takes care of charging and going into my multiple USB-C hubs and eventually to the studio display.

00:06:03 ◼   ► But yeah, that's what I'm using.

00:06:05 ◼   ► Have you tried one of the different inserts?

00:06:07 ◼   ► I have, and those were for the MacBook Pro.

00:06:12 ◼   ► So that's probably what I'm going to do if I need to find a more universal fit in the future.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Because the iPad Pro with the Magic Keyboard is quite a bit thicker than a MacBook Air.

00:06:27 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Or I mean, I could just detach the iPad from the Magic Keyboard and just put the iPad inside.

00:06:34 ◼   ► And with clamshell mode, if they really do it, technically, I mean, in theory, the display should stay off, which is what I want.

00:06:42 ◼   ► I don't want to see a display right by the corner of my eye.

00:06:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the Bookarc is totally the way to go if you're using your laptop closed.

00:06:52 ◼   ► But I don't. I have my laptop open to the left.

00:06:56 ◼   ► I first tried the 12 South HiRise, which is like a nice metal stand.

00:07:03 ◼   ► There's a new version that has a little like wireless charger in the base, but it's height adjustable.

00:07:07 ◼   ► And the way it height adjust is the stand moves up and down and there's a little like a little lock you twist into place.

00:07:14 ◼   ► Well, you couldn't get it tight enough.

00:07:17 ◼   ► So the whole thing wobbled like the top part would wobble while the bass part was still on the desk.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And that just drove me nuts.

00:07:24 ◼   ► And so I just bought I'm going to read the whole name on Amazon.

00:07:28 ◼   ► There'll be a link in the show notes.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I'm sure the sound dance all capital letters, sound dance,

00:07:36 ◼   ► laptop stand, aluminum computer riser, ergonomic laptops, elevator for desk, metal holder compatible with 10 to 15.6 inches,

00:07:43 ◼   ► no book computer silver. Isn't that a movie festival?

00:07:46 ◼   ► Sundance Sundance.

00:07:51 ◼   ► This is a very basic aluminum stand.

00:07:55 ◼   ► It matches the silver of my MacBook Pro.

00:07:57 ◼   ► It's got non skid feet on it and I've been really happy with it.

00:08:02 ◼   ► It was like twenty five bucks on Amazon.

00:08:04 ◼   ► So you mentioned the the high rise and you didn't have a great experience of it.

00:08:08 ◼   ► But did you see the high rise pro is a new one that they have?

00:08:12 ◼   ► Maybe the fixings are better. I don't know.

00:08:14 ◼   ► But it has a key charger in the bottom.

00:08:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't need another wireless charger like I have a studio neat one to the right of my display.

00:08:21 ◼   ► Yeah, but it looks like the picture is like it's basically the same stand with the same height adjustment.

00:08:26 ◼   ► So I'm not I'm not too worried about it. This one that I bought the sort of generic one works totally fine.

00:08:33 ◼   ► So I think I'm set.

00:08:35 ◼   ► It's just one of those things I see these little items pop up. I thought, oh, it's an interesting little idea.

00:08:39 ◼   ► We mentioned a couple of weeks ago a leak about the next Apple Pride band and it's now been announced.

00:08:48 ◼   ► It's coming in a couple of weeks time.

00:08:50 ◼   ► And it's like a sprinkle focused Pride edition band this time with a similar watch face.

00:08:57 ◼   ► We were talking about like what I kind of like the look of this from the leak and was hoping that it wouldn't be one of the sport loops.

00:09:06 ◼   ► And it's a sport band. And I like this. I think it's really fun.

00:09:10 ◼   ► So I will pick this up myself. I think this is a really cool just a really cool design.

00:09:15 ◼   ► I like the sprinkles, the colors of the pride flag in there.

00:09:19 ◼   ► So I think that's really cool. I was I was unsure about this one yesterday.

00:09:25 ◼   ► But then I woke up this morning. I looked at it again and I've decided that I like it.

00:09:29 ◼   ► Good. Because this surprised me because when we saw the leak, you were on board with me that you liked it.

00:09:34 ◼   ► And then yesterday you told me you didn't like it, which was a surprise to me.

00:09:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I was in a weird mood yesterday. I think that was part of it.

00:09:41 ◼   ► I woke up today. I was like, yeah, this is nice.

00:09:44 ◼   ► So, you know, sometimes you just got to sit, you just got to wait 24 hours and then you realize, I like this.

00:09:49 ◼   ► So, yeah, I'm going to get it too. Maybe this is why Apple don't make it immediately available.

00:09:53 ◼   ► Right. I want to give Federico at least a couple of days to come around on the idea.

00:09:57 ◼   ► And then at the end of the month, you can order it. I would expect specifically for me.

00:10:02 ◼   ► Yes. Yes. Just for me. Why not? The wallpaper on the iPhone is something.

00:10:09 ◼   ► That's a big choice. I feel like they have overdone it. I'm wondering if, I'm wondering, maybe it animates.

00:10:20 ◼   ► I've seen the animation. I think I've seen it posted in Discord.

00:10:25 ◼   ► I haven't seen the animation.

00:10:26 ◼   ► It's pretty wild. It does like a big swirl when you unlock the phone.

00:10:30 ◼   ► It's very, it's a choice to use this wallpaper.

00:10:36 ◼   ► I love the colors and I love the animation. My only concern is the legibility of the text.

00:10:44 ◼   ► As you can see, yeah, yeah, yeah. But the colors, man, really nice.

00:10:50 ◼   ► The thing that surprises me is just like the way that they have done it on the watch screen.

00:10:56 ◼   ► It's like retained its sprinkleness. But on the phone, there's so many sprinkles.

00:11:02 ◼   ► It doesn't look like sprinkles anymore.

00:11:04 ◼   ► It's more like graffiti or something.

00:11:06 ◼   ► Yeah. And so I feel like I would like a little bit more space maybe, but maybe the animation, I haven't seen the animation.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Maybe that will account for that. But there's, it's quite aggressively sprinkled on the phone.

00:11:18 ◼   ► Yeah. It's like when you open the lid of sprinkle jar and too many sprinkles fall on your ice cream.

00:11:26 ◼   ► Wouldn't it be upsetting though, if you opened a sprinkle jar and they were lined up by color like that, wouldn't that be upsetting?

00:11:33 ◼   ► I think that would be extremely upsetting because it means, well, no, maybe machines.

00:11:38 ◼   ► There's a glitch in the matrix. If you open a jar of sprinkles and they're all perfectly matched by color, something bad is happening.

00:11:45 ◼   ► No, you don't want to eat those sprinkles.

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00:13:43 ◼   ► There's new reporting that the Apple Watch Series 9 will feature an updated processor based on the cores in the A15.

00:13:52 ◼   ► So this comes from Bloomberg's Mark Gurman, who we mentioned a second ago.

00:13:56 ◼   ► It actually came out in his new Discord server, which he announced this past weekend for newsletter subscribers.

00:14:02 ◼   ► This is a big deal because the Apple Watch Series 8 and the Series 7 basically use the same system on a chip that was announced back in the Apple Watch Series 6.

00:14:13 ◼   ► They have incremented the name, and there are slightly new features, but it's been the same speed for a long time.

00:14:19 ◼   ► And Gurman says that this new Series 9 chip will be an actually new system on a chip, a new processor,

00:14:27 ◼   ► and not just a rebranding of what has been in the watch now for several years.

00:14:32 ◼   ► Of course, with these system on a chip improvements, we can hope for better battery life and more power efficient operation.

00:14:41 ◼   ► And I wanted to get y'all's take on this.

00:14:43 ◼   ► First of all, does the Apple Watch feel slow to the two of you?

00:14:46 ◼   ► I know in the beginning it certainly did, but I feel like I've been pretty happy with the responsiveness of the Apple Watch.

00:14:53 ◼   ► The Apple Watch Ultra that I have now feels totally fine in terms of launching apps or just doing traditional Apple Watch stuff.

00:15:04 ◼   ► I still feel like the animations could maybe be sped up a little, especially when notifications come in or when you zoom in and out of apps from the home screen.

00:15:16 ◼   ► But it's not like I'm using the Apple Watch and I'm like, "Oh, this thing is so slow. I can't bear it."

00:15:23 ◼   ► No, I used to feel that way with the first watches.

00:15:26 ◼   ► I think it's been totally fine for the past few years, which is probably why the chip hasn't really changed much.

00:15:31 ◼   ► But that said, I guess maybe the reason to do a brand new chip wouldn't just be, "Hey, now everything's faster,"

00:15:39 ◼   ► but maybe you're doing something new as the WatchOS 10 rumor that we've been discussing.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Maybe you're doing something totally new, which will require better hardware and more speed and more RAM or whatever.

00:15:53 ◼   ► I feel like there hasn't been much needed to push it. It's doing what it's doing, and it's mostly ticking along.

00:16:03 ◼   ► But all of these rumors seem to suggest a big change for WatchOS, for WatchOS 10.

00:16:10 ◼   ► So maybe that will be going hand in hand with potential advancements in the OS and the hardware going together.

00:16:23 ◼   ► For me, your question was, "Does it feel slow, Steven?" And I don't think so, right?

00:16:28 ◼   ► But I don't really think that there's going to ever, in the near future, be a lot of bottlenecks on app performance on the Watch

00:16:36 ◼   ► because realistically the apps are so small. I wonder if capability is more realistic for the Apple Watch

00:16:46 ◼   ► for enhancements of new silicon than speed. That the Watch is able to do more, it's able to process more data more frequently

00:16:54 ◼   ► because it's not going to kill the battery life so much because it's more efficient.

00:16:58 ◼   ► That feels more realistic for why you might want to have new silicon in the Apple Watch.

00:17:03 ◼   ► It's more for efficiency than performance.

00:17:06 ◼   ► Yeah, you mentioned WatchOS 10, and of course one of the big rumors there is that it's going to be the release of widgets on WatchOS.

00:17:13 ◼   ► So I guess we're back to glances like we had in the early days.

00:17:17 ◼   ► But a real common complaint is how slow some of the complications are to refresh their data.

00:17:23 ◼   ► And with widgets, I think that's going to be just as frustrating, if not more so.

00:17:29 ◼   ► And so if Apple can increase the frequency in which they keep those UIs updated,

00:17:36 ◼   ► and if they can do that without killing our battery life in this new system on a chip, then that sounds actually pretty exciting to me.

00:17:43 ◼   ► You know, being an ultra user, I really don't think about Apple Watch battery life, but no, that's not true for most users.

00:17:49 ◼   ► And if they can do new things and be more efficient, then it's going to be a good change.

00:17:56 ◼   ► Yeah, if we're going to have a UI that's heavily based around navigating widgets more than just having complications and going to the home screen and opening an app.

00:18:09 ◼   ► And if you want to make sure that those widgets, if they really are a selling point of the brand new watch experience,

00:18:16 ◼   ► you want to make sure that they update as frequently as possible, which means you're going to consume power, which means you're going to consume battery.

00:18:23 ◼   ► And so having a more powerful, more efficient chip that will optimize how the watch draws from the battery, that will make a lot of sense.

00:18:35 ◼   ► So I think if the rumor is correct, and it seems that it was leaked by a few sources a while back,

00:18:45 ◼   ► and then Gerwin sort of confirmed that this is what they're doing.

00:18:49 ◼   ► So it seems pretty accurate if they're doing this, you want to make sure that you have better hardware.

00:18:54 ◼   ► Now, my question would be, I really don't think that Apple is going to come out and say widgets for watchOS 10 are exclusive to the new watches this year.

00:19:07 ◼   ► I think they're going to do it for all watches that will be capable of updating to watchOS 10.

00:19:13 ◼   ► So it'll be interesting to see what does it mean in terms of, again, if the theory is correct that it's all about refreshing those widgets and optimizing for battery life,

00:19:23 ◼   ► does it mean that if you have an older watch, you get, say, a refresh every 30 seconds, whereas if you have a new one, it's every 15 seconds?

00:19:31 ◼   ► It'll be interesting to see the limitations of that and the differences between the two chips when it comes to watchOS 10.

00:19:37 ◼   ► Well, it's also about the battery life of the existing devices, and you can't take a hit to those, but we don't know how much they pad that in, right, in general.

00:19:48 ◼   ► What they say a watch is capable of and what a watch is capable of and what may actually be capable of, if they actually do things efficiently.

00:19:58 ◼   ► And so this might be the way of like, okay, the new watchOS is going to be more intensive, but we know that the watches that we have currently can do it and still give full-day battery life.

00:20:07 ◼   ► Maybe it's a little bit less, but still full-day, but then we know that this year's watches will take it further than before, and they'll have the biggest battery life ever.

00:20:15 ◼   ► You know, like there's that constant push-pull, right?

00:20:18 ◼   ► You know, it's kind of funny to me the other day saying about watch battery life.

00:20:21 ◼   ► Just me and Nadina were talking and I was just saying like, you know, I'll probably get a watch maybe this year or something. I think two years is good for me.

00:20:28 ◼   ► And she just turned to me and she was like, "You deserve a new Apple Watch. Your battery life's really bad."

00:20:32 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Oh, man. Will you come in?"

00:20:34 ◼   ► And I'm like, "This isn't necessary." But like, I guess she's just realizing that like, it's very unfortunate for me that I charge my Apple Watch, obviously more than she does.

00:20:45 ◼   ► But like, you know, I'm topping it up, right? So like, when I go to bed, when I'm just like, you know, unwinding, I put the watch on charge before I go to sleep.

00:20:54 ◼   ► And then when I wake up in the morning, I put it back on charge until I get ready and then take it off charge.

00:20:59 ◼   ► And she doesn't need to do that with her Series 8. She doesn't need to charge it as much as I do.

00:21:03 ◼   ► And I quite frequently hit the 10% low power warning towards the end of the day.

00:21:10 ◼   ► So like, I know my little Series 7 is struggling over here, but I guess you ultra boys, you don't even... battery's battery, right?

00:21:18 ◼   ► You charge your watches like a week ago or something?

00:21:20 ◼   ► Yeah, it's pretty good. I mean, I can go two days pretty easily.

00:21:25 ◼   ► Do you remember, you can get to battery health on here somewhere. Here it is. Battery...

00:21:30 ◼   ► Oh, you can.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Battery health, 83%.

00:21:35 ◼   ► Ooh.

00:21:36 ◼   ► So it's...

00:21:37 ◼   ► That's bad.

00:21:38 ◼   ► You know, it's going down.

00:21:40 ◼   ► But also we can't possibly know really, because we don't work at Apple and we're not software engineers,

00:21:46 ◼   ► we can't possibly know if... is it more power efficient to use watchOS 10 with widgets and to constantly dip in and out of widgets?

00:21:57 ◼   ► Is that more power efficient or not?

00:21:59 ◼   ► Then if you want to use an app, go to the home screen, launch the full app, which gets unsuspended from memory or needs to start up the full thing.

00:22:09 ◼   ► Like what's more power efficient?

00:22:11 ◼   ► Maybe actually using widgets is going to be more power efficient than navigating to the full-on application on your watch.

00:22:19 ◼   ► So maybe there's also that consideration. We can't know.

00:22:23 ◼   ► No, but it's one of those things where it's like this constant... I feel like this push and pull, right?

00:22:28 ◼   ► Where it's like, well, it's obvious you can't make the battery life worse, but it happens all the time too, right?

00:22:33 ◼   ► Like, especially with the Apple Watch, I feel like every couple of years something changes and then people are like,

00:22:39 ◼   ► "My watch dies in 20 minutes now."

00:22:41 ◼   ► You know, like I feel like it... And so it's like, it's interesting thing you'd think that's like,

00:22:45 ◼   ► "Oh, well, obviously any change that they make, they're not going to make the battery worse than existing devices."

00:22:49 ◼   ► But yeah, it does happen.

00:22:50 ◼   ► Sometimes they correct it, but it does happen.

00:22:53 ◼   ► It feels like the Apple Watch specifically is maybe a product that is more sensitive to the health of its battery,

00:23:02 ◼   ► how quickly the battery can degrade and what the software can do to it, right?

00:23:07 ◼   ► Because it feels like this is something that happens quite a lot.

00:23:09 ◼   ► And I expect it's just because of the size of the battery, you know, because I think about for me,

00:23:13 ◼   ► it's like a scale where, you know, like I noticed when we were talking about this,

00:23:18 ◼   ► you get like a year into the life of a pair of AirPods and like things start to get pretty ropey.

00:23:22 ◼   ► Like they work, but you're charging like maybe every day, every two days if you use them enough.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And I know that I've seen that like the longer... My AirPods Pro, the original ones before we upgraded them,

00:23:33 ◼   ► I was charging those things every day towards the end of their kind of life.

00:23:38 ◼   ► And it makes sense, right? That the smaller the battery, the quicker it's going to degrade.

00:23:44 ◼   ► And especially these products that are, you know, that you charge them frequently

00:23:47 ◼   ► and there's a lot of stuff going on that is going to dwindle like that.

00:23:50 ◼   ► So I imagine the watch is a similar thing.

00:23:53 ◼   ► And it's also just seems to be a system which is prone to something going on in the software that can make it even worse.

00:24:00 ◼   ► But I'm excited about watchOS 10, this potential idea of more widget focused interface.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:08 ◼   ► WatchOS desperately needs some love.

00:24:12 ◼   ► I got a letter in the mail.

00:24:13 ◼   ► Can you tell us about your taxes or what?

00:24:15 ◼   ► I did get a letter from the state of Tennessee saying they owe me money. That seems like a scam, but...

00:24:19 ◼   ► See, now you're telling us about your taxes because you're bragging. You're bragging about your taxes.

00:24:23 ◼   ► Is it that I paid them too much? I don't think that's bragging.

00:24:26 ◼   ► Anyways, I got...

00:24:27 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like, "Oh, look at me. I'm able to pay too much in taxes and I don't even know. Wow, look at this guy."

00:24:33 ◼   ► Wow. I wish we would use it for something cool like healthcare, but that's not up to me.

00:24:38 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:39 ◼   ► I got a letter in the PO box from listener Callie who listens with her dad and sister on the way to school.

00:24:44 ◼   ► Recording stopped.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Your recording has stopped. The disk space is insufficient.

00:24:51 ◼   ► Oh my God, is your computer full? Is your computer too full of Dev and Think? It's too full of Dev and Think. That's the problem.

00:24:58 ◼   ► Four terabytes free.

00:25:00 ◼   ► Well, I don't know if you do.

00:25:02 ◼   ► Okay.

00:25:03 ◼   ► Restart that.

00:25:04 ◼   ► Recording in progress.

00:25:06 ◼   ► Okay. So I got a letter in the PO box from Callie who listens to the show with her dad and sister on the way to school, which is very cool.

00:25:14 ◼   ► And they have some questions for us. First one, what inspires connected episodes? How do you come up with topics?

00:25:24 ◼   ► First, I would like to say hello to Callie and family.

00:25:26 ◼   ► Hello.

00:25:27 ◼   ► There's something about this, like families listening to the show together, where I feel like an intense pressure that I don't feel when it's just one person.

00:25:34 ◼   ► No, I love it.

00:25:35 ◼   ► Because I feel like if you're listening in mixed company, like everyone's got to be entertained, you know? So I just hope we're doing a good enough job with that.

00:25:44 ◼   ► Did you have any doubts? We do.

00:25:47 ◼   ► I do now. I didn't before.

00:25:49 ◼   ► Every time I record connected, I'm just picturing the scene from the gladiator and be like, are you not entertained? That is me in front of the microphone.

00:25:58 ◼   ► That is you.

00:25:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:26:00 ◼   ► Episodes tend to be inspired by what's going on in technology, right? Like especially Apple, like that part's pretty simple, except for when we get to the rough months, when there's no news.

00:26:14 ◼   ► Yes.

00:26:15 ◼   ► That's when we draw from our personal lives.

00:26:18 ◼   ► Yes, or we roast things.

00:26:22 ◼   ► This is just one of those things, like anyone who has made content that is like ours, in which like there will always be an episode. It's not like, you know, for you guys, I guess you live on both sides of this, where I don't really like all the content that I make is made based on a schedule.

00:26:46 ◼   ► So like there's going to be one on this frequency where I guess with your two with 512 and with max stories, you just write in when something's happening or you have something to say, like you don't have to, but I guess maybe if you have newsletters you do, but for the websites you don't.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but for the websites, you could just be like, well, when we have something to say, we'll say it, but we don't feel a need to like say something every week or whatever.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:27:10 ◼   ► So for me, like I'm kind of like when you're in this routine, you kind of have to lean on your experience of like, what are the things that you've done, maybe accidentally or just through some flash of inspiration that end up becoming something you think you can build on.

00:27:27 ◼   ► And like the roasts, I don't remember where the roasts started, but I think it might've been from just the idea that every time we would do some kind of home screen review, it would get pretty nasty, like in a good way. And so we just decided to take that and just apply it to a bunch of things.

00:27:43 ◼   ► But like, that's the kind of idea you pick on, you pick something that seemed like fun and then adapt it and make it more.

00:27:48 ◼   ► Yeah. Roast my life choices, right? That one is still out there floating around.

00:27:53 ◼   ► I think also the, you know, from personal experience when you, you know, sometimes I think the thing for us is we talk about tech and Apple stuff.

00:28:06 ◼   ► Okay. So I'm going to speak for me here, but like, I'm always thinking about this stuff, you know?

00:28:10 ◼   ► And so it's not like I just show, it's not like I show up and I'm like, okay, now I got to work. It's connected. Oh gosh, I hate it. I need to come up with something. Like I'm always thinking about things I want to try or accessories that I want to buy or different apps that I want to use.

00:28:27 ◼   ► And so it's, I never really exit that mode of I'm researching ideas and you know, with One True John, we have a saying on app stories that like everything is research.

00:28:41 ◼   ► And in a way that is so true because like everything I do, like I'm, because I'm also using my phone in my personal life and I'm using my iPad in my personal life.

00:28:50 ◼   ► And maybe I realize something I'm like, oh, let me save that as an idea for a topic or on connected or app stories.

00:28:57 ◼   ► So we personally, I never really exit that mode unless I'm doing like I'm on vacation or I'm hanging out with friends.

00:29:04 ◼   ► But like ideas, at least for me, often come from I'm doing something on my own, even if I'm not technically, you know, starting a timer and being like I'm doing research for connected.

00:29:15 ◼   ► Maybe just an idea strikes and you save it down and that becomes, you know, an interesting or silly segment of the show.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Our lives are content.

00:29:24 ◼   ► That's right.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Yes. Yeah.

00:29:27 ◼   ► Yeah. They are.

00:29:28 ◼   ► They are. Yes.

00:29:29 ◼   ► Yeah. It was like that joke a couple of weeks ago, right? Like crash detection went off my watch. It's content. Talk about it.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. See, exactly. Or for example, today I needed to go get something in the garage and that's like it's in the underground in the building.

00:29:47 ◼   ► And I took the elevator down and I noticed when I was going back up that my iPhone was in satellite SOS mode, which is I wanted to mention this to you guys and I forgot.

00:30:00 ◼   ► So I'm going to mention it here. It's a weird thing because like how would I be able to use the satellite on the ground when I'm in my garage?

00:30:10 ◼   ► Oh, I can answer that actually.

00:30:12 ◼   ► OK.

00:30:13 ◼   ► When there's no signal at all, it reverts back to that SOS thing.

00:30:18 ◼   ► So you probably if you like really need to use satellite emergency calling, it wouldn't have worked.

00:30:23 ◼   ► But that's what the UI shows you. I think that's actually kind of a bad design.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Yeah, they made it worse.

00:30:28 ◼   ► It wouldn't have worked, right? Yeah, exactly. Like that's what I thought. Like I understand why it was triggered, but it wouldn't work.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Like it still wouldn't get any kind of reception. Yeah. So that's an example of like something happened and you think about it and then you mention it on the show.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Like how I accidentally set off fall detection yesterday.

00:30:48 ◼   ► How?

00:30:49 ◼   ► I like banged my hand.

00:30:50 ◼   ► OK.

00:30:51 ◼   ► Like it wasn't even that violent. Like I just knocked my hand against my chair.

00:30:54 ◼   ► Are you sure?

00:30:55 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:56 ◼   ► OK.

00:30:57 ◼   ► And it and it did the little thing. It was like, doo doo.

00:31:01 ◼   ► You made a little sound and I was like, oh, hello, fall detection.

00:31:04 ◼   ► I was like, no, I haven't had a fall. And it's like, you have any symptoms? I'm like, no, I'm all good.

00:31:12 ◼   ► So I was like, there you go.

00:31:13 ◼   ► It knows we're all getting older, right? It's like looking out for us.

00:31:16 ◼   ► Yeah, I changed the setting. Like, I think the default setting is fall detection when working out.

00:31:22 ◼   ► And so I changed it to just leaving it on to all the time.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm with Federica, though. I feel like everything I do at work or read, you know, because this is also like my interest and hobby.

00:31:33 ◼   ► It's always getting filtered through the content part of my brain.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So it's like, is this something I want to write about or talk about on one of my shows?

00:31:40 ◼   ► Is this something that I want to like bring to Discord and chat with people there?

00:31:44 ◼   ► And so at this point, I mean, we've done this show together now almost 10 years.

00:31:49 ◼   ► It doesn't really feel like, oh, I've got to sit down and like do the document.

00:31:52 ◼   ► And there is a time for that, you know, usually Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday morning, we're in the document putting things in.

00:31:58 ◼   ► But it's all very natural and fluid at this point, which I like.

00:32:04 ◼   ► Yeah, like an orchestra over here.

00:32:07 ◼   ► Speaking of things that were nice and fluid, the next question was, will the Tiny Heads tea ever come back again?

00:32:13 ◼   ► Nope.

00:32:14 ◼   ► I feel like maybe you're getting trolled.

00:32:16 ◼   ► Well, no, because the passionate ones didn't do a good enough job the second time.

00:32:20 ◼   ► They bought more than the first time, didn't they?

00:32:22 ◼   ► But it still wasn't as many as any of our other t-shirts. It still wasn't.

00:32:27 ◼   ► The point was proven as to why we shouldn't have done it again.

00:32:30 ◼   ► And we won't ever do a surprise merch again when one of us is gone, I think.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Yeah, Mike was very upset.

00:32:37 ◼   ► I'm not going to say we're not going to do that.

00:32:41 ◼   ► Oh.

00:32:42 ◼   ► I might want to extract revenge one day.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Oh, boy.

00:32:46 ◼   ► Wow. Oh, boy.

00:32:47 ◼   ► And the last one I think is for Federico. Where did the long thigh jokes come from?

00:32:52 ◼   ► When Apple released the 10th generation base model iPad last year,

00:32:59 ◼   ► and it had the weird non-magic keyboard accessory.

00:33:05 ◼   ► What's it called? Magic Folio? Is it called Magic Keyboard Folio?

00:33:10 ◼   ► Magic keyboard folio.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Magic Smart Keyboard Folio Pro.

00:33:15 ◼   ► Smart Magic Folio. Magic keyboard folio.

00:33:19 ◼   ► It had a kickstand.

00:33:21 ◼   ► And when we wrote our respective reviews,

00:33:25 ◼   ► I wrote in my review that I'm a kickstand guy,

00:33:28 ◼   ► and Jason, Jason Snell of Six Colors wrote that it's not exactly a kickstand person.

00:33:35 ◼   ► And I believe that on the show, I said,

00:33:40 ◼   ► because I say so many stupid things on the show,

00:33:42 ◼   ► and so hopefully Cali's family finds these stupid things entertaining.

00:33:47 ◼   ► And I believe that one of the things I said is that I like using kickstands

00:33:51 ◼   ► because I have long thighs or something along those lines.

00:33:55 ◼   ► Or you needed long thighs, I think, to use this particular thing.

00:33:58 ◼   ► Or you needed a long thigh.

00:34:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I said, oh, maybe you need long thighs to accommodate a kickstand

00:34:03 ◼   ► and make it comfortable.

00:34:05 ◼   ► Something along those lines because I can help myself,

00:34:08 ◼   ► and that's where it got started.

00:34:10 ◼   ► And it got so silly at one point that we asked people

00:34:15 ◼   ► to send us pictures of their thighs with a measuring tape to establish--

00:34:19 ◼   ► We did. We did do that.

00:34:21 ◼   ► We did that.

00:34:23 ◼   ► Their royal thighness.

00:34:25 ◼   ► That was a thing we did.

00:34:27 ◼   ► Because sometimes you can take a joke too far,

00:34:30 ◼   ► but eventually you also make that content.

00:34:33 ◼   ► It goes back to that idea of everything--

00:34:36 ◼   ► You've got to find a way to optimize the content factory inside of you,

00:34:41 ◼   ► and that is how we do it.

00:34:43 ◼   ► We say some silly things and we find a way to make them work.

00:34:48 ◼   ► When every content creator grows old enough,

00:34:50 ◼   ► they find the factory inside of them.

00:34:52 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, it sounds like a joke, but it's actually so true, I think.

00:34:57 ◼   ► You've got to find a way to facilitate the making of the content.

00:35:00 ◼   ► Otherwise, it's going to feel like a job,

00:35:02 ◼   ► and you don't want it to feel like a job.

00:35:04 ◼   ► That's my take.

00:35:05 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is also brought to you by ZocDoc.

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00:36:46 ◼   ► ZocDoc.com/connected.

00:36:49 ◼   ► Our thanks to ZocDoc for their support of the show and Relay FM.

00:36:53 ◼   ► It was a random Tuesday in May.

00:36:56 ◼   ► Well, all of a sudden, from out of nowhere,

00:37:00 ◼   ► a press release is released on the Apple newsroom saying,

00:37:04 ◼   ► "Hey, here's the new Pride band."

00:37:06 ◼   ► And we say, "Oh, okay. I thought this was coming."

00:37:09 ◼   ► Ten minutes later, "Oh, hey, Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro,

00:37:13 ◼   ► they're on iPad now."

00:37:15 ◼   ► -Yeah. -"Oh, hey."

00:37:17 ◼   ► That's the meme, right? They just newsroom it out.

00:37:20 ◼   ► Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro for iPad, that's the tweet.

00:37:24 ◼   ► They will go on sale on Tuesday, May 23rd.

00:37:29 ◼   ► That's almost two weeks from now.

00:37:31 ◼   ► And they will be subscriptions at $4.99 per month per app.

00:37:37 ◼   ► So each of them is going to be $5 per month

00:37:40 ◼   ► or $49 per year with a one-month free trial.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Hot takes. How do we feel about that?

00:37:48 ◼   ► Come on, give us your honesty.

00:37:50 ◼   ► Well, I want to just compare it.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I just want to give the Mac prices,

00:37:54 ◼   ► where Logic Pro is $1.99 and Final Cut Pro is $2.99.

00:38:00 ◼   ► So it is a good bit cheaper.

00:38:03 ◼   ► I think this kind of follows in the footsteps

00:38:07 ◼   ► of something like Adobe products, honestly, right?

00:38:12 ◼   ► Where you can pay, I think I pay like 60 bucks a month

00:38:14 ◼   ► and I have access to almost everything in the Creative Suite.

00:38:17 ◼   ► And that's fine for me because I need all of those tools.

00:38:20 ◼   ► But if you just need a couple of them or you need one

00:38:22 ◼   ► for a short period of time, that's always an upside

00:38:26 ◼   ► with subscriptions.

00:38:27 ◼   ► But at the same time, it's a little weird.

00:38:30 ◼   ► And I think I said this in my blog post

00:38:32 ◼   ► and no one's corrected me, so I think it's accurate.

00:38:34 ◼   ► I think it's the first time Apple has had

00:38:36 ◼   ► a subscription software title in the store.

00:38:38 ◼   ► Everything else they've done is free or an outright purchase.

00:38:41 ◼   ► So that's a new thing.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Hey, Mike, can I give you a hot take?

00:38:46 ◼   ► Oh, you know I want it, baby.

00:38:48 ◼   ► I will not disappoint you.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:38:51 ◼   ► I think, okay, great, this is a hot take.

00:38:54 ◼   ► I think subscriptions are better than other pricing models

00:38:58 ◼   ► for this type of software.

00:38:59 ◼   ► And I actually think that the other way

00:39:02 ◼   ► to sell Final Cut and Logic,

00:39:04 ◼   ► I actually think that standard pricing is bad.

00:39:08 ◼   ► Standard pricing, like $200, is gatekeeping

00:39:12 ◼   ► and is preventing a lot of people

00:39:14 ◼   ► from actually trying these apps.

00:39:16 ◼   ► I think the folks who are saying,

00:39:19 ◼   ► "No, I want to give you $200 or $300,"

00:39:22 ◼   ► that's something I strongly disagree with.

00:39:26 ◼   ► Because $5 a month, it means a ton of,

00:39:29 ◼   ► for example, teenagers that have an iPad

00:39:31 ◼   ► will be able to get Final Cut and learn Final Cut or Logic

00:39:35 ◼   ► and create stuff and spend $10.

00:39:39 ◼   ► Maybe they try it for two months and they realize,

00:39:41 ◼   ► "Oh, this is not for me."

00:39:43 ◼   ► But they don't have the pressure of being like,

00:39:46 ◼   ► "Oh, I got to ask my mom to give me $200

00:39:50 ◼   ► for a piece of software."

00:39:51 ◼   ► Well, don't forget, you got a one-month free trial.

00:39:54 ◼   ► Exactly, exactly.

00:39:55 ◼   ► So I actually think I love this, and this is better.

00:40:00 ◼   ► Like, I got to tell you, this is a multi-layer hot take.

00:40:04 ◼   ► I would have been upset if they came out and said,

00:40:07 ◼   ► "We made Logic and Final Cut,

00:40:08 ◼   ► and you got to spend $200 each to get them on the iPad."

00:40:12 ◼   ► Because it means far, far fewer people

00:40:15 ◼   ► would have given this a try.

00:40:17 ◼   ► I didn't think of it the way you did,

00:40:19 ◼   ► and I love that take.

00:40:21 ◼   ► For me, I'm just kind of like, these are professional tools.

00:40:25 ◼   ► $4.99 a month for a professional tool is not a lot of money.

00:40:28 ◼   ► But it gets even more to that case of, like,

00:40:31 ◼   ► I put off buying Final Cut for way longer than I should have

00:40:35 ◼   ► because I didn't know if I wanted to spend $200.

00:40:39 ◼   ► But I ended up doing it,

00:40:40 ◼   ► and I was happy that I did it,

00:40:42 ◼   ► but it took me longer to get to that point

00:40:45 ◼   ► rather than trying to use other types of video software

00:40:47 ◼   ► just years ago, like on the Mac,

00:40:49 ◼   ► because I didn't want to pay $200 for something

00:40:52 ◼   ► because I didn't know how to use it.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Because the first time I bought Logic,

00:40:55 ◼   ► a long, long, long, long time ago,

00:40:58 ◼   ► I bought it for, like, I don't know how much it was then,

00:41:01 ◼   ► when it was all silver.

00:41:03 ◼   ► You remember when the UI was all silver?

00:41:04 ◼   ► Yeah, Logic 9 is what Caleb says.

00:41:06 ◼   ► Yeah, Logic 9, thank you.

00:41:07 ◼   ► I bought that app for however many hundreds of pounds it cost me,

00:41:11 ◼   ► and I could not understand it, so I wasted my money.

00:41:14 ◼   ► When they redesigned Logic to Logic Pro X,

00:41:18 ◼   ► like, the UI changed in such a way

00:41:20 ◼   ► that it started to make sense to me.

00:41:21 ◼   ► Plus, my skills in GarageBand had leveled up to the point

00:41:25 ◼   ► where, like, the jump over was easier.

00:41:28 ◼   ► And so I wasted all that money

00:41:30 ◼   ► because I had to pay upfront for it.

00:41:32 ◼   ► This is a better model, I think, for this type of software

00:41:36 ◼   ► and at $49 a year, that is a great deal, I think,

00:41:40 ◼   ► for these applications.

00:41:42 ◼   ► It's, you know, all right, you get $200 forever,

00:41:45 ◼   ► but it's not forever, though, is it?

00:41:46 ◼   ► Because, like, they will bring out a new version

00:41:48 ◼   ► and charge you again for it eventually

00:41:50 ◼   ► if that's going to be the model, right?

00:41:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, Apple hasn't done that for these two applications,

00:41:56 ◼   ► but professional tools generally, that's how it works.

00:42:00 ◼   ► But I expect they've probably just been waiting

00:42:03 ◼   ► until they move it to subscriptions.

00:42:05 ◼   ► The only reason they haven't done that.

00:42:06 ◼   ► And I expect the next version of Final Cut and Logic on the Mac

00:42:10 ◼   ► will move to subscription, and there will be, like,

00:42:12 ◼   ► a new version, and it will go subscription.

00:42:14 ◼   ► This makes sense to me because it's, like, this profession.

00:42:17 ◼   ► These are professional tools that you buy and you use,

00:42:20 ◼   ► and $4.99 a month for a professional tool like this is fine.

00:42:24 ◼   ► But I also love your take on it, Federico,

00:42:26 ◼   ► which is coming at it from the opposite end of, like,

00:42:29 ◼   ► if you're not a professional

00:42:30 ◼   ► but you want to try out a professional tool,

00:42:32 ◼   ► you can try it out now for a month for free,

00:42:35 ◼   ► and if you use it for two months, you've paid $8.

00:42:39 ◼   ► Exactly, yes.

00:42:40 ◼   ► It's not a lot of money.

00:42:41 ◼   ► And the thing about subscriptions also,

00:42:44 ◼   ► which I think is important, is that they are a two-way street

00:42:48 ◼   ► in the sense that you, the customer, are paying, you know,

00:42:52 ◼   ► a fee every month.

00:42:53 ◼   ► But Apple is also on the hook for these apps now,

00:42:57 ◼   ► and they are asking people for money each month.

00:43:00 ◼   ► And so it creates that expectation

00:43:02 ◼   ► that you want to see continuous improvements.

00:43:04 ◼   ► And I can tell you, I can tell you,

00:43:06 ◼   ► because I know what I'm about to say,

00:43:09 ◼   ► that they have a long list of features

00:43:11 ◼   ► that are not making it for version 1.0,

00:43:14 ◼   ► and they are aware of those features.

00:43:16 ◼   ► And so I just, you know, on balance,

00:43:19 ◼   ► I think this is a much better model

00:43:21 ◼   ► because it also creates that expectation in people of, like,

00:43:24 ◼   ► this is going to be a recurring product that I'm paying for.

00:43:28 ◼   ► It's going to be a recurring expense for me.

00:43:31 ◼   ► And also it's something that is being developed, which is why,

00:43:34 ◼   ► I mean, you look at all the third-party developers

00:43:36 ◼   ► that we often mention on the show.

00:43:37 ◼   ► You look at, you know, stuff like drafts, for example.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Greg Pierce asks people for money with a subscription,

00:43:43 ◼   ► but he's always working on drafts.

00:43:46 ◼   ► And so to see this from Apple,

00:43:48 ◼   ► and I feel pretty confident, you know,

00:43:50 ◼   ► in saying that they are aware of the features

00:43:52 ◼   ► that will not make it for version 1.0,

00:43:55 ◼   ► and they're working on them.

00:43:56 ◼   ► With the subscription model,

00:43:58 ◼   ► you create that sort of relationship with people where, like,

00:44:01 ◼   ► okay, I'm paying for this on a monthly basis,

00:44:03 ◼   ► but I know that Apple is continuing to work on them,

00:44:06 ◼   ► as opposed to I gave them $200 a year and a half ago,

00:44:11 ◼   ► and I still don't have this feature.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Now I'm upset.

00:44:15 ◼   ► You know, I think this works much better for them.

00:44:17 ◼   ► And I don't know this personally,

00:44:20 ◼   ► but I would be shocked if the same model

00:44:24 ◼   ► doesn't come to the Mac versions.

00:44:26 ◼   ► We'll offer a good piece of real-time follow-up

00:44:28 ◼   ► from Zach in the Discord.

00:44:30 ◼   ► You can get trials of Final Cut and Logic on the Mac

00:44:32 ◼   ► from the website.

00:44:33 ◼   ► That's great.

00:44:34 ◼   ► I think the point still stands.

00:44:36 ◼   ► And there's educational discounts for those both as well.

00:44:39 ◼   ► I want to talk about the system requirements a little bit,

00:44:42 ◼   ► because this is not something we normally talk about

00:44:44 ◼   ► with iPad software, but Final Cut...

00:44:48 ◼   ► Well, we did for the operating system.

00:44:49 ◼   ► We did for...

00:44:51 ◼   ► Final Cut, yeah.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Stage Manager.

00:44:56 ◼   ► So Final Cut Pro is compatible with an M1 or later.

00:45:00 ◼   ► That means the 2021 iPad Pro and later,

00:45:04 ◼   ► and then the 2022 iPad Pro and 2022 iPad Air.

00:45:09 ◼   ► So no iPad Mini and no regular iPad,

00:45:13 ◼   ► and no, you know, the kind of the beloved 2018 iPad

00:45:17 ◼   ► that a bunch of people are still hanging on to.

00:45:19 ◼   ► It doesn't make the cut for Final Cut Pro.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Logic Pro has a wider base.

00:45:23 ◼   ► It just needs the A12 Bionic.

00:45:26 ◼   ► So that's the 2018 iPad Pro, 2019 iPad Air,

00:45:31 ◼   ► 2019 iPad Mini, and the 2020 iPad or newer.

00:45:35 ◼   ► So a much broader range of devices for Logic.

00:45:39 ◼   ► And I mean, that makes sense to me.

00:45:42 ◼   ► I think when you see, like I just seen,

00:45:44 ◼   ► it has the only hands-on video that I've come across.

00:45:46 ◼   ► And it's pretty brief,

00:45:48 ◼   ► but some of the things she's showing, like real-time effects,

00:45:52 ◼   ► you don't want to wait around for rendering, right?

00:45:55 ◼   ► Final Cut's going to have a much bigger footprint

00:45:58 ◼   ► on your system resources.

00:45:59 ◼   ► And the same thing is on the Mac, right?

00:46:01 ◼   ► The Mac that can run Logic Pro really well,

00:46:04 ◼   ► like that's different than a Mac

00:46:05 ◼   ► that runs Final Cut Pro really well,

00:46:07 ◼   ► at least back in the Intel days.

00:46:08 ◼   ► So it is a bummer that my iPad Mini won Final Cut, I guess,

00:46:12 ◼   ► but also like how bad-

00:46:13 ◼   ► I can't wait to try.

00:46:14 ◼   ► Yeah, how bad?

00:46:16 ◼   ► Logic on the iPad Mini, oh my God.

00:46:18 ◼   ► How bad would the interface be?

00:46:20 ◼   ► You won't be able to do anything.

00:46:21 ◼   ► And really Final Cut and Logic both,

00:46:23 ◼   ► like both of these to me, I'm like,

00:46:25 ◼   ► man, there should be a bigger iPad.

00:46:27 ◼   ► These would both look good on a bigger iPad.

00:46:29 ◼   ► And we're going to come back to this, I think,

00:46:32 ◼   ► but both of them require iPad OS 16.4.

00:46:36 ◼   ► So it's interesting that these aren't built on something

00:46:38 ◼   ► in iPad OS 17.

00:46:40 ◼   ► You know, when these come out on the 23rd,

00:46:42 ◼   ► we can just download and install them

00:46:43 ◼   ► if your iPad meets the requirements.

00:46:45 ◼   ► And again, like my feeling on this is,

00:46:48 ◼   ► this is what these apps require.

00:46:52 ◼   ► Like they just went through this.

00:46:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:55 ◼   ► Right?

00:46:56 ◼   ► With the stage manager.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Like I really do believe this,

00:46:59 ◼   ► especially because Logic and Final Cut

00:47:03 ◼   ► have different minimum system requirements.

00:47:05 ◼   ► Like that to me tells me that I expect they have gone to the,

00:47:11 ◼   ► they've gone as far as they possibly can

00:47:13 ◼   ► for both pieces of software.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Because it is weird to have these two apps come out

00:47:18 ◼   ► and like they have different coughs,

00:47:20 ◼   ► which makes me feel like Logic can run on the A12.

00:47:24 ◼   ► So they're doing that.

00:47:25 ◼   ► When I think it would make more sense,

00:47:28 ◼   ► just like from a marketing perspective to say it's

00:47:31 ◼   ► for both of these apps M1, right?

00:47:34 ◼   ► Like it's just cleaner that way.

00:47:36 ◼   ► But they, I believe they are going to the,

00:47:39 ◼   ► I think past the point where it makes sense, right?

00:47:41 ◼   ► Because they're not actually cutting it off by model,

00:47:44 ◼   ► but by chip, because genuinely the 2019 iPad mini,

00:47:49 ◼   ► that is going to be a terrible experience

00:47:52 ◼   ► to run an app like Logic on it.

00:47:55 ◼   ► Like I have a 27 inch monitor,

00:47:58 ◼   ► but sometimes I feel like I need more space

00:48:00 ◼   ► for Logic on the Mac, right?

00:48:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:03 ◼   ► Well, they've done some interesting things in Logic.

00:48:05 ◼   ► If you look through their product page,

00:48:07 ◼   ► they're like the meters and the sliders that all

00:48:11 ◼   ► that interface, which is at the bottom of the screen

00:48:13 ◼   ► in Logic on the Mac is like its own screen you go into

00:48:17 ◼   ► and come out of.

00:48:18 ◼   ► It's like they're doing some interesting things

00:48:19 ◼   ► with the interface.

00:48:20 ◼   ► But I agree.

00:48:21 ◼   ► I think the very least you're going to want an 11 inch iPad.

00:48:25 ◼   ► And if you're serious about these things,

00:48:27 ◼   ► probably the 12.9 is the way to go,

00:48:30 ◼   ► especially with Final Cut.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Cause then you get to do the really cool color,

00:48:33 ◼   ► like correction and reference modes that that,

00:48:37 ◼   ► that XDR display can do on the big iPad.

00:48:39 ◼   ► Should we just round out the conversation on Logic?

00:48:41 ◼   ► Cause I think Final Cut has more to talk about realistically.

00:48:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:48:45 ◼   ► And it's, and Logic's also the one that you and I use.

00:48:47 ◼   ► I mean, we both use Logic sometimes every day of the week.

00:48:52 ◼   ► I am very interested to see what this would be like

00:48:56 ◼   ► for podcast editing.

00:48:57 ◼   ► If you, if you edit podcasts and Logic, like we do,

00:49:00 ◼   ► you're using like 3% of what the application can do.

00:49:04 ◼   ► And I don't know about you, Mike,

00:49:06 ◼   ► but I have over the years turned off most of the UI in Logic.

00:49:11 ◼   ► And on occasion when I've like talked to people who do like

00:49:14 ◼   ► music production and a tool like Logic,

00:49:16 ◼   ► and I show them like my template, they're like,

00:49:18 ◼   ► this is bananas.

00:49:19 ◼   ► Where did everything go?

00:49:20 ◼   ► But it's cause we don't need a lot of that stuff.

00:49:22 ◼   ► I also just don't think Apple cares about people editing

00:49:24 ◼   ► podcasts and Logic.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Like if you watch all this stuff.

00:49:26 ◼   ► No, no.

00:49:27 ◼   ► I mean, when you look at the marketing, it's music, right?

00:49:29 ◼   ► Like just a bunch of people making cool beats.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Cause it is a music tool because realistically people in the

00:49:35 ◼   ► wider industry don't use Logic.

00:49:37 ◼   ► They use like Pro Tools.

00:49:39 ◼   ► It's still there.

00:49:40 ◼   ► It's still feasible.

00:49:41 ◼   ► I don't amad, Ferrite's great.

00:49:44 ◼   ► Don't get me wrong.

00:49:45 ◼   ► It's a fantastic application.

00:49:47 ◼   ► What I'm saying is like for Logic's tool set to edit a

00:49:51 ◼   ► podcast is like the most simple tool set that Logic has.

00:49:54 ◼   ► So all they have to do is the bare minimum of you can put

00:49:57 ◼   ► multiple tracks and zoom in and out and make cuts.

00:49:59 ◼   ► Like the stuff that we do musicians 100% need.

00:50:03 ◼   ► So like I feel like it would be easy to do.

00:50:06 ◼   ► I would be very surprised if it didn't run great,

00:50:09 ◼   ► but we'll wait and see.

00:50:11 ◼   ► I mean, yeah, maybe like it will run great,

00:50:13 ◼   ► but Ferrite's particulars for the way that it is tuned to

00:50:17 ◼   ► working for touch screens might be better,

00:50:19 ◼   ► but also realistically, if I'm going to do this,

00:50:22 ◼   ► I'm going to want a keyboard.

00:50:23 ◼   ► Yes.

00:50:24 ◼   ► And that's something that I think Apple's done a good job

00:50:26 ◼   ► explaining that both of these apps, they use touch,

00:50:29 ◼   ► they use keyboard and trackpad input,

00:50:31 ◼   ► but you can also use the pencil.

00:50:33 ◼   ► I think on the Logic page, it has somebody working on

00:50:36 ◼   ► automation, which is like volume change on a track over

00:50:39 ◼   ► time, doing that with a pencil and like doing that with a

00:50:42 ◼   ► cursor, sometimes a Mac OS,

00:50:44 ◼   ► like you move the mouse the wrong way and things go haywire.

00:50:47 ◼   ► I think it's cool that they have re-imagined these tools

00:50:51 ◼   ► to be more specific with their types of input that they

00:50:55 ◼   ► work best with.

00:50:56 ◼   ► The other thing that I think is really cool about this is

00:50:59 ◼   ► that it is compatible with the Mac version of Logic.

00:51:05 ◼   ► And we'll get to Final Cut and its situation in a second,

00:51:08 ◼   ► but it looks like you'll be able to move Logic projects

00:51:11 ◼   ► around and they just work.

00:51:15 ◼   ► And that's pretty sweet.

00:51:17 ◼   ► There's going to be some asterisks there, right?

00:51:20 ◼   ► Because like you can,

00:51:21 ◼   ► there are two ways you can build a Logic project.

00:51:24 ◼   ► You can build a Logic project where you can have it include

00:51:27 ◼   ► the audio or you can have it reference the audio.

00:51:31 ◼   ► And if you're doing the audio referencing,

00:51:34 ◼   ► I'm not sure how well that would work.

00:51:36 ◼   ► Maybe the files app would make it better if you were saving

00:51:38 ◼   ► them in a place where it's synced.

00:51:40 ◼   ► But I feel like it's probably going to work best if you

00:51:43 ◼   ► have the audio copied into the project, like container.

00:51:47 ◼   ► That works better now on the Mac version.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Yes, it does.

00:51:50 ◼   ► And you can import GarageBand projects.

00:51:53 ◼   ► So Apple is kind of building an on-ramp from GarageBand

00:51:56 ◼   ► up into Logic if you're on that trajectory, which is cool.

00:52:00 ◼   ► There's also plugin support.

00:52:02 ◼   ► So this is a big thing in Logic and Final Cut both to bring in,

00:52:05 ◼   ► in Logic's case, additional audio units into your project.

00:52:10 ◼   ► So ones that I use are by a company called iZotope.

00:52:14 ◼   ► And I'm not super optimistic if iZotope has to do something

00:52:18 ◼   ► for this.

00:52:19 ◼   ► If this just like works and you can bring them over,

00:52:21 ◼   ► that's fantastic.

00:52:22 ◼   ► But iZotope on the Mac is not fully retina.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Like there's a bunch of other tools that aren't multi-threaded.

00:52:27 ◼   ► And so they're pretty slow in terms of adopting new stuff.

00:52:31 ◼   ► And there's lots of other options out there.

00:52:33 ◼   ► There's a whole world of plugins.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Those are just the ones that I happen to use.

00:52:36 ◼   ► But I'm curious to see how this adoption goes.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Apple's audio units, their plugins into Logic,

00:52:43 ◼   ► most of them are pretty good.

00:52:45 ◼   ► In fact, I use Apple's compressor because it sounds

00:52:47 ◼   ► really good and just built in.

00:52:49 ◼   ► And so that'll get you a long way.

00:52:51 ◼   ► But if you're doing a lot of custom stuff,

00:52:53 ◼   ► I just wonder how fast the ecosystem will grow up around this,

00:52:58 ◼   ► if at all.

00:52:59 ◼   ► So they can and will work if the developers have done the job.

00:53:04 ◼   ► So like this uses, I've got this from Jason's Art Corn 6 colors.

00:53:09 ◼   ► So the iPad OS version uses Apple's audio unit plugin format.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Because iPad OS supports that and Logic also supports that.

00:53:17 ◼   ► So if you have a plugin developer, if they have made a version

00:53:21 ◼   ► for the iPad, it will work here.

00:53:23 ◼   ► If they haven't, it won't.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Okay. Anything else with Logic that jumped out at you, Mike?

00:53:27 ◼   ► No, I'm excited about it.

00:53:29 ◼   ► To me, am I going to change to editing on the iPad?

00:53:33 ◼   ► No.

00:53:34 ◼   ► But this might be a thing where I would be more willing to,

00:53:38 ◼   ► you know, like I'm working on a bigger project,

00:53:40 ◼   ► like a big editing project, and then I don't need to take

00:53:43 ◼   ► my laptop and an iPad on a trip.

00:53:45 ◼   ► And I can continue working in the Logic project, that's good.

00:53:49 ◼   ► And like, who knows, maybe it will be a great experience.

00:53:52 ◼   ► And like maybe it will be a better experience

00:53:54 ◼   ► because it's been rethought.

00:53:55 ◼   ► Like I'm not assuming I'm going to be throwing away Logic

00:53:58 ◼   ► on the Mac, but I'm very excited about the idea that I would be able

00:54:02 ◼   ► to move between operating systems and be able to access

00:54:05 ◼   ► the exact same projects.

00:54:06 ◼   ► That's exciting to me.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it's pretty cool.

00:54:08 ◼   ► Because I'm very simple as a Logic user.

00:54:10 ◼   ► I don't use plugins or really anything like that.

00:54:12 ◼   ► So I think my workflow would fit into Logic Pro on the iPad very easily.

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00:56:02 ◼   ► But this is where the story changes a bit when we turn our eye to Final Cut Pro.

00:56:07 ◼   ► So reading from Jason's preview on Six Colors,

00:56:11 ◼   ► Final Cut Pro for iPad seems to be a subset of the Mac version.

00:56:15 ◼   ► You can start on iPad and move to the Mac,

00:56:18 ◼   ► but the migration won't work the other way,

00:56:20 ◼   ► and a bunch of features from the Mac just aren't there on the iPad.

00:56:24 ◼   ► So I come away from this feeling that Final Cut Pro on the iPad

00:56:28 ◼   ► is maybe more focused on people who want to make projects on their iPads

00:56:33 ◼   ► rather than people who want to take their existing projects on the go,

00:56:36 ◼   ► which is a very viable reason for this piece of software to exist.

00:56:42 ◼   ► But it is going to be a frustration for people.

00:56:45 ◼   ► However, again, I may question the idea that, like me,

00:56:49 ◼   ► if you already have a Mac-focused workflow that you're really entrenched in,

00:56:54 ◼   ► how often would you be moving those files to Final Cut on the iPad to continue them?

00:57:04 ◼   ► It really does feel like it is more realistic that it works the other way around,

00:57:09 ◼   ► that you can either do it all on the iPad or start something on the iPad,

00:57:13 ◼   ► do some capture, do some basic effects,

00:57:15 ◼   ► then move it to the Mac to be that part of your workflow

00:57:18 ◼   ► if that's something you care about.

00:57:20 ◼   ► Yeah, it's interesting.

00:57:21 ◼   ► I think in her video,

00:57:23 ◼   ► Agustin talks about people who are editing on their phones, right?

00:57:26 ◼   ► People who are just shooting and doing all their editing mobile,

00:57:30 ◼   ► and that this is kind of built with them in mind.

00:57:34 ◼   ► One of the examples is it has really nice support

00:57:38 ◼   ► for reframing content for things like vertical video.

00:57:42 ◼   ► And you can do that in Final Cut.

00:57:43 ◼   ► Adobe also has some tools that makes it really easy to do.

00:57:46 ◼   ► But that's a very common use case, I think, especially on mobile,

00:57:50 ◼   ► and they are recognizing that.

00:57:52 ◼   ► Apple, I think with Final Cut in particular,

00:57:55 ◼   ► it does have this weird potential problem of there's a bunch of people growing up

00:58:02 ◼   ► learning how to do video editing with touch.

00:58:04 ◼   ► And Logic, I don't think, has that same sort of threat on the horizon,

00:58:09 ◼   ► but Apple's got to keep Final Cut not only cool and fun, but also relevant.

00:58:15 ◼   ► And this, yeah, it's not as great as the Mac version,

00:58:18 ◼   ► but it seems like what they've done here is bring the most important things

00:58:21 ◼   ► to these types of editors.

00:58:23 ◼   ► And that, I think, is a pretty good way to start.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Like Logic, it has different tools based on your input,

00:58:30 ◼   ► so keyboard, touch, and pencil.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Did you all see the example of the live drawing?

00:58:35 ◼   ► So you can draw over a clip,

00:58:37 ◼   ► and then your drawing itself becomes an asset

00:58:41 ◼   ► that you can treat as its own thing in the timeline?

00:58:44 ◼   ► Like, what a good use for the pencil.

00:58:46 ◼   ► That is super smart.

00:58:47 ◼   ► Yeah, and I feel like the whole pitch of this is a

00:58:52 ◼   ► multi sort of model experience where you can draw with the pencil,

00:58:58 ◼   ► you can hover with the pencil, or you can use your finger,

00:59:01 ◼   ► or you can use the trackpad, or you can use keyboard shortcuts.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Like, when you think about it, nobody else has done this or can do this.

00:59:11 ◼   ► Like, this is just really an iPad thing where you have all of these three,

00:59:17 ◼   ► four different input methods,

00:59:19 ◼   ► and they all can do, like, you can get the,

00:59:24 ◼   ► they all cover pretty much the basics.

00:59:26 ◼   ► Like, all you can do with your finger, you can do with the trackpad,

00:59:29 ◼   ► but you also have the addition of Apple Pencil.

00:59:32 ◼   ► And so in that case, you have these extra dimensions

00:59:35 ◼   ► for drawing with the pencil or hovering with the pencil,

00:59:39 ◼   ► or you have keyboard shortcuts.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And my understanding is that they've been trying to match

00:59:44 ◼   ► all of the common keyboard commands from the Mac on iPadOS,

00:59:48 ◼   ► but there's also the, like, have you guys seen that cool UI element,

00:59:53 ◼   ► like that little dial that they pop in from the right side of the screen?

00:59:58 ◼   ► What's the name? Like, the something wheel?

01:00:01 ◼   ► -The something wheel. -Yeah, the something wheel,

01:00:03 ◼   ► which I think is so cool because it, like,

01:00:05 ◼   ► it supports different types of scrubbing through the magnetic timeline

01:00:11 ◼   ► in Final Cut, and, like, that's exactly, like,

01:00:15 ◼   ► the sort of thing that I wanted to see in an iPad,

01:00:18 ◼   ► sort of iPad first version of Final Cut.

01:00:22 ◼   ► It's not a real, I think this approach with Final Cut,

01:00:25 ◼   ► especially with Final Cut on the iPad, is a really fascinating one

01:00:30 ◼   ► because they haven't tried to reinvent video editing, right?

01:00:34 ◼   ► It's not like they did with Final Cut what they did with files

01:00:38 ◼   ► when it first came out compared to Finder.

01:00:40 ◼   ► They didn't try to reinvent something established.

01:00:43 ◼   ► They took something established, they made it work on the iPad,

01:00:47 ◼   ► and then they sprinkled in all of these new additions

01:00:51 ◼   ► that make sense for a device like the iPad,

01:00:54 ◼   ► which is, if you think about it, this way to design software on iPad

01:00:59 ◼   ► is different from the software that we've seen on iPad before, right?

01:01:03 ◼   ► And I don't know, I just, you know, I saw a demo,

01:01:07 ◼   ► and it just, it all makes me feel very optimistic.

01:01:10 ◼   ► Granted, this is just a team of people at Apple doing this.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Jogwheel.

01:01:16 ◼   ► The jogwheel, thank you.

01:01:17 ◼   ► This is just a team of people in the Final Cut team

01:01:20 ◼   ► and the Logic team, like, doing this work on the iPad.

01:01:24 ◼   ► It's not necessarily a reflection of iPadOS as a whole,

01:01:27 ◼   ► but still, you know, I don't know, I just, especially Final Cut,

01:01:32 ◼   ► I think it's really impressive.

01:01:34 ◼   ► Elephant in the room.

01:01:35 ◼   ► Why a random Tuesday in May?

01:01:39 ◼   ► Have you heard the theory?

01:01:41 ◼   ► What is it?

01:01:42 ◼   ► The easy theory would be, oh, they drop this in now,

01:01:46 ◼   ► on a random Tuesday with the press release,

01:01:48 ◼   ► because they have other stuff to worry about at WWDC,

01:01:52 ◼   ► which totally makes sense.

01:01:55 ◼   ► There are other theories that one could think about.

01:01:58 ◼   ► Hey, maybe it was just ready to go, and it's not dependent on,

01:02:03 ◼   ► like, it doesn't need any, you know,

01:02:06 ◼   ► maybe they don't want to confuse the message.

01:02:07 ◼   ► This is good to go on iPadOS 16.

01:02:10 ◼   ► We don't need to sort of confuse the message and be like,

01:02:13 ◼   ► maybe does it require iPadOS 17?

01:02:17 ◼   ► So it's good to go. Why not?

01:02:19 ◼   ► Maybe another possible theory would be there will be features in iPadOS 17

01:02:27 ◼   ► that will make this existing product better in the future.

01:02:32 ◼   ► So Apple could say something like,

01:02:35 ◼   ► and starting with iPadOS 17,

01:02:37 ◼   ► Logic and Final Cut will be able to do this later this year.

01:02:42 ◼   ► Like, instead of, you know, having to announce Final Cut and Logic

01:02:47 ◼   ► at the event, they can just treat it as an established existing product

01:02:52 ◼   ► and be like this new iPadOS 17 feature

01:02:55 ◼   ► also will work later this year in Final Cut and Logic.

01:02:59 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a way for them to continue to push iPadOS 4.

01:03:04 ◼   ► Right? Like, it's a reason to build in things like better file management

01:03:08 ◼   ► or audio routing or, you know, one of the thousand other things

01:03:11 ◼   ► for MacOS that power users on the iPad would like.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And now they're like, hey, look, we have these two apps over here

01:03:18 ◼   ► and we need to continue to make them better.

01:03:21 ◼   ► And the way they do that is to make the platform under them better as well.

01:03:25 ◼   ► Yes. And that is exactly the sort of thing I've been thinking about since yesterday.

01:03:30 ◼   ► Because it's not just, so the way I look at this is

01:03:33 ◼   ► it's not just, you know, these two apps in a vacuum.

01:03:37 ◼   ► There's Logic and Final Cut on the iPad. Great.

01:03:40 ◼   ► The fact that the same company that makes these apps also makes the hardware

01:03:45 ◼   ► and makes the software makes this story a lot more interesting.

01:03:49 ◼   ► Because by making Final Cut and Logic on the iPad,

01:03:52 ◼   ► you've got to believe that some people from those teams went to their managers

01:03:56 ◼   ► and they said, well, you know, this will be much, much better

01:04:00 ◼   ► if only we had greater control over, you know, multiple sources of audio

01:04:05 ◼   ► or having a proper screen in settings where you can choose, you know,

01:04:09 ◼   ► where to output sound or just being able to have multiple streams of audio

01:04:14 ◼   ► at the same time and pull audio from those sorts.

01:04:17 ◼   ► Like all kinds of things that those developers maybe were used to having

01:04:22 ◼   ► on the Mac side of things and when they were tasked with making an iPad version,

01:04:28 ◼   ► they realized, oh, well, the platform doesn't let me do this.

01:04:31 ◼   ► So for me, releasing Final Cut and Logic is not only like a great event

01:04:37 ◼   ► because it's like something we've been expecting for really a decade.

01:04:41 ◼   ► This is the end of the meme when you think about it.

01:04:44 ◼   ► Oh, what are the pro apps on the iPad?

01:04:47 ◼   ► This is like they should do the funeral for that meme.

01:04:49 ◼   ► It's done. It's over.

01:04:51 ◼   ► They've done these apps and come May 23rd, that will be done.

01:04:55 ◼   ► We don't need to say it anymore.

01:04:57 ◼   ► But what we can think about next is how can they improve the platform

01:05:02 ◼   ► underneath this software to make it better or at the very least equivalent to Mac OS?

01:05:11 ◼   ► My perspective is I'm not going to use Logic.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I'm not going to use Final Cut.

01:05:15 ◼   ► I'm a writer. I don't need these apps.

01:05:18 ◼   ► And Apple doesn't make a pro app for writers who like plain text.

01:05:23 ◼   ► That thing, well, exists.

01:05:25 ◼   ► I mean, it's called Obsidian, but it's not made by Apple.

01:05:29 ◼   ► Still, though, for me, this matters because maybe, and maybe this is optimism,

01:05:37 ◼   ► maybe this is just wish casting, whatever, but I think it sends a signal.

01:05:42 ◼   ► For Apple to come out and say, "Here's Logic and Final Cut,"

01:05:46 ◼   ► it feels like, I don't want to, no, I want to say that.

01:05:50 ◼   ► It feels like a change in direction, at least slightly,

01:05:54 ◼   ► not just because they make these apps, but because of how they make them.

01:05:59 ◼   ► And I mean, you look at the screenshots and the videos that we've seen on Logic and Final Cut so far,

01:06:04 ◼   ► those are complex, dense interfaces like we've never seen before from Apple on iPad OS.

01:06:12 ◼   ► We've always gotten the sort of watered-down iPad version of insert app name here.

01:06:20 ◼   ► Like, we've always got the friendlier, more spaced-out version of Safari, of Mail,

01:06:26 ◼   ► of Finder, which is not called Finder, of Calendar.

01:06:30 ◼   ► This is like, Logic and Final Cut are the thing, you know?

01:06:35 ◼   ► You look at those screenshots, without the frame around them,

01:06:40 ◼   ► you could be confused and be like, "Hey, this is a Mac with a weird aspect ratio,"

01:06:45 ◼   ► when you look at the UI.

01:06:48 ◼   ► And so, I want to believe this is a signal of Apple finally accepting the idea of,

01:06:55 ◼   ► "Oh, we can get complex for our power users, for the people who really want this stuff, we can do it."

01:07:03 ◼   ► Whereas before, it always felt like there was that invisible barrier of,

01:07:07 ◼   ► "Oh, you can be a power user on the iPad, but you can only go so far?"

01:07:11 ◼   ► And now you look at these two apps, and it's like, "No, we're fine with having tiny buttons,

01:07:17 ◼   ► plenty of sidebars, popovers, all kinds of interface elements on screen at once,

01:07:23 ◼   ► and it's up to you to learn how to use this."

01:07:25 ◼   ► So, does it mean...

01:07:28 ◼   ► With this, I'm not saying that, "Oh, teaching is reading into Final Cut and Logic

01:07:33 ◼   ► and being like Sage Manager is going to be great in iPadOS 17."

01:07:36 ◼   ► I'm not saying that.

01:07:38 ◼   ► I'm saying that it feels to me as if something has changed

01:07:43 ◼   ► in terms of what Apple thinks can be expected on iPadOS if you're a power user.

01:07:51 ◼   ► At least someone does.

01:07:52 ◼   ► At least someone does. That someone is me.

01:07:54 ◼   ► I look at this and to me, so this is the pro workflow team, right?

01:07:58 ◼   ► This would indicate to me that there's something going on here with them, I would assume, right?

01:08:06 ◼   ► But they're the kind of people that you do want to be able to push on what's possible in iPadOS.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Because the clue's in the name, pro workflows.

01:08:16 ◼   ► It's intriguing. It's intriguing that it requires 16.4.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Why?

01:08:22 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Right? That's just weird to me.

01:08:26 ◼   ► I don't think that's some kind of major conspiracy, but these are apps.

01:08:30 ◼   ► Why do these apps in the App Store need a specific version of the operating system?

01:08:36 ◼   ► I don't know. That's just kind of funny.

01:08:38 ◼   ► There must be something like some kind of low-level change that they are.

01:08:43 ◼   ► There's a framework or something in there they need.

01:08:45 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:08:47 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:08:49 ◼   ► My general vibe before we wrap up is obviously, as you guys know, as connected listeners know,

01:08:56 ◼   ► I was feeling very down on the iPad for the past six months of my life.

01:09:03 ◼   ► This announcement has reignited something in theory, right?

01:09:12 ◼   ► Because practically speaking, I'm still stuck with Stage Manager and iPadOS 16.

01:09:17 ◼   ► But it's a bit of a vibe change for me.

01:09:21 ◼   ► And I guess we'll see if I'll be proven wrong at WWDC or not.

01:09:26 ◼   ► But it feels like there's something there in terms of maybe you can expect some of the things you wanted

01:09:32 ◼   ► from iPadOS this year instead of doing what I was thinking was going to happen,

01:09:38 ◼   ► which was, yeah, I'm going to be done with iPadOS at least until 2024 and beyond.

01:09:45 ◼   ► That's the glass half full.

01:09:48 ◼   ► Yes.

01:09:49 ◼   ► The glass half empty is like this was all it was going to be.

01:09:53 ◼   ► Yes.

01:09:54 ◼   ► And it just got pushed out of the keynote.

01:09:56 ◼   ► That's exactly how to look at this.

01:09:58 ◼   ► You got both, right?

01:10:00 ◼   ► Like it could be one or the other, but that would actually -- I am more on the pessimistic take here.

01:10:06 ◼   ► This is a great thing.

01:10:08 ◼   ► And in the keynote would have been a great headline, but they are prioritizing for what makes sense.

01:10:14 ◼   ► This is not part of iPadOS 17.

01:10:17 ◼   ► They could have released it sooner and they would have, even if it would have been part of the keynote.

01:10:21 ◼   ► I'm not personally confident that this means there is more to tell about iPadOS 17 specifically.

01:10:28 ◼   ► If you want to find links to all the stuff we spoke about this week, head on over to the website,

01:10:32 ◼   ► relay.fm/connected/449.

01:10:37 ◼   ► There are a couple of links in the show notes in the podcast player and on the web,

01:10:41 ◼   ► one to draw your attention to.

01:10:42 ◼   ► Now the first is the submit feedback button.

01:10:44 ◼   ► So if you have feedback or follow up for the show, we have a little form on the website you can fill out

01:10:48 ◼   ► and it goes into our CMS and we will see it when we prep for the show.

01:10:53 ◼   ► I also want to talk about membership for a second.

01:10:55 ◼   ► This is the time of year where we publish our annual specials here on relay.fm.

01:11:01 ◼   ► A whole bunch of shows produce an extra episode for all members to enjoy.

01:11:05 ◼   ► So you don't have to be a connected member to hear our annual special,

01:11:09 ◼   ► but it went up earlier this week and it was a special edition of the quizzes that was a whole lot of fun.

01:11:14 ◼   ► So if you're a member, check that out in the crossover feed.

01:11:18 ◼   ► And if you're not a member, now is a great time to join.

01:11:21 ◼   ► It's $5 a month or $50 a year and connected listeners, connected members

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01:11:30 ◼   ► You can find us online. Federico is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net

01:11:36 ◼   ► and he is on Mastodon as Vitici at maxstories.net.

01:11:41 ◼   ► Mike hosts a bunch of other shows here on relay.fm and is the co-founder at Cortex Brand.

01:11:46 ◼   ► You can find him at mike.social as imike.

01:11:50 ◼   ► I co-host Mac Power Users, which comes out every Sunday afternoon here on relay.fm

01:11:55 ◼   ► and I'm the writer of 512pixels.net and you can find me on Mastodon as ismh@eworld.social.

01:12:03 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week, Squarespace, ZocDoc, and Fast Growing Trees.

01:12:08 ◼   ► Until next time, gentlemen, say goodbye.

01:12:11 ◼   ► Adios, El Chirio.