Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to episode 446

00:00:09 ◼   ► of the CONNECTED podcast from Rela FM.

00:00:11 ◼   ► I still do not know how to introduce this show.

00:00:14 ◼   ► My name is Mike Hurley.

00:00:15 ◼   ► This episode is brought to you by FITBOD and Elektrik

00:00:19 ◼   ► and I'm joined by Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Ciao, Federico.

00:00:22 ◼   ► - Ciao, Mike.

00:00:23 ◼   ► I like the intro.

00:00:25 ◼   ► The CONNECTED podcast from Rela FM.

00:00:27 ◼   ► I felt very professional.

00:00:30 ◼   ► I like it.

00:00:31 ◼   ► I like it.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Professional but not too serious, yes.

00:00:35 ◼   ► - This one, it's just not in my flow, right?

00:00:38 ◼   ► The Discord's already calling me out.

00:00:40 ◼   ► Like, you know, you used to host this show

00:00:43 ◼   ► every single week.

00:00:44 ◼   ► You host other shows.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Like, those intros, they're just like,

00:00:47 ◼   ► I don't even think about them, right?

00:00:49 ◼   ► Like when I'm doing the intro for Upgraded,

00:00:51 ◼   ► the intro for The Pan-Addict,

00:00:52 ◼   ► that's just flowing out of me.

00:00:54 ◼   ► Like, there's no thought going into that.

00:00:55 ◼   ► It's just all going off the dome.

00:00:57 ◼   ► For this show, it's like it's not normal for me, right?

00:01:00 ◼   ► To have everything ready for CONNECTED all the time.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Like, I don't know how it goes

00:01:04 ◼   ► and so sometimes this is how it goes.

00:01:06 ◼   ► - Well, I think it's because we do the rotation thing.

00:01:09 ◼   ► - Exactly, so it's like I'm not used to it.

00:01:12 ◼   ► And also, I'm usually surprised by the introduction.

00:01:14 ◼   ► I forget that I'm even doing it

00:01:15 ◼   ► and then everyone goes silent for a second

00:01:17 ◼   ► and then I'm supposed to start speaking.

00:01:19 ◼   ► It's very strange. - Yes, yes.

00:01:21 ◼   ► - Not a fan.

00:01:22 ◼   ► - Well, you did a good job today.

00:01:23 ◼   ► - Thank you so much.

00:01:25 ◼   ► - No Steven today?

00:01:26 ◼   ► He's taken the episode off.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Should we instruct people to do anything

00:01:31 ◼   ► or should we have them leave him alone?

00:01:33 ◼   ► - I don't know, don't leave him alone.

00:01:36 ◼   ► - Don't leave him alone.

00:01:37 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, no.

00:01:39 ◼   ► So typically we've asked,

00:01:42 ◼   ► so we used to ask people to tweet at Steven.

00:01:45 ◼   ► We cannot ask that anymore.

00:01:47 ◼   ► So what do you say?

00:01:51 ◼   ► Post?

00:01:52 ◼   ► Reply?

00:01:53 ◼   ► Write?

00:01:54 ◼   ► Write to Steven, send--

00:01:56 ◼   ► - Send a--

00:01:57 ◼   ► public post on Mastodon.

00:02:03 ◼   ► - Yes, yes.

00:02:05 ◼   ► With, I got this, I got this.

00:02:07 ◼   ► Send a public Mastodon post to Steven

00:02:10 ◼   ► with the first Mac,

00:02:14 ◼   ► the name of the model of the first Mac you got

00:02:19 ◼   ► and in which year.

00:02:20 ◼   ► So for example, I would say MacBook Pro 2008.

00:02:25 ◼   ► So, you know, tell Steven, what was your first Mac and when?

00:02:30 ◼   ► - What I would like as an addendum to that

00:02:33 ◼   ► is I think this would be more confusing to him

00:02:35 ◼   ► is if you put the year in like parentheses.

00:02:40 ◼   ► - Oh yes, yes.

00:02:42 ◼   ► - Because that will look like a model year, right?

00:02:45 ◼   ► So Steven is ISMH at ISMH on eWorld.com

00:02:50 ◼   ► eWorld.social, so you can go find him

00:02:53 ◼   ► and you just send him the name of the first Mac

00:02:56 ◼   ► that you owned, used, whatever,

00:02:58 ◼   ► or just like the name of the first Mac.

00:03:00 ◼   ► Like you interpret that however you like

00:03:02 ◼   ► and then put the year that you first used or owned this Mac

00:03:05 ◼   ► but put it in parentheses, please.

00:03:07 ◼   ► - So for example, to give you some examples,

00:03:09 ◼   ► I would do MacBook Pro parentheses 2008.

00:03:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I would be like iMac 2005, I think it was 2005.

00:03:17 ◼   ► - Yes, but you gotta use the parentheses

00:03:18 ◼   ► so we can confuse Steven to an extent.

00:03:21 ◼   ► - iMac parentheses 2005, close parentheses.

00:03:25 ◼   ► We call them brackets in England.

00:03:28 ◼   ► - I know, I know.

00:03:29 ◼   ► - What do you call them?

00:03:30 ◼   ► - Parenthesis.

00:03:31 ◼   ► - In Italian?

00:03:32 ◼   ► - In Italian parentheses.

00:03:34 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:03:34 ◼   ► - So see in Italian, so in Italian it's parentheses,

00:03:39 ◼   ► which is like the same word without the letter S at the end.

00:03:44 ◼   ► But what's weird about how we call them in Italian

00:03:47 ◼   ► is that all kinds of brackets,

00:03:50 ◼   ► we say it's a type of parentheses.

00:03:53 ◼   ► So for example, the square bracket is a square parentheses

00:03:57 ◼   ► and the curly bracket is a curly parentheses.

00:04:01 ◼   ► So it's parentheses, parentheses quadra,

00:04:03 ◼   ► and parentheses grapha.

00:04:05 ◼   ► - Right, but as you can imagine, we say brackets,

00:04:08 ◼   ► square brackets, curly brackets.

00:04:09 ◼   ► - Oh, nice, okay.

00:04:11 ◼   ► So you use a different word but the same semantic approach.

00:04:15 ◼   ► - But I don't think that's how it is in America, right?

00:04:17 ◼   ► They say square bracket, right?

00:04:19 ◼   ► They don't say square parentheses, they should though.

00:04:21 ◼   ► - No, they should.

00:04:23 ◼   ► - But square parentheses, curly parentheses.

00:04:26 ◼   ► - Curly parentheses, yes, that'd be nice.

00:04:28 ◼   ► - I like it.

00:04:29 ◼   ► Follow up time.

00:04:32 ◼   ► - Follow up, okay.

00:04:33 ◼   ► - So Paul in the Discord found the car brochure

00:04:37 ◼   ► that was sitting on top of that pile of brochures

00:04:40 ◼   ► that Steve Jobs had in his office.

00:04:42 ◼   ► So it was in like a basket.

00:04:44 ◼   ► - Oh my God.

00:04:44 ◼   ► - And he found it.

00:04:45 ◼   ► It was for the Mercedes E-Class,

00:04:47 ◼   ► which to me feels like the most 2005 vehicle

00:04:51 ◼   ► that any human being could ever own.

00:04:53 ◼   ► - Oh my God, I used to see this car.

00:04:56 ◼   ► - Everywhere.

00:04:58 ◼   ► - Oh my God, this is such a boring choice, Steve.

00:05:02 ◼   ► - But not in 2005 though.

00:05:04 ◼   ► Like back then, this was like the car,

00:05:07 ◼   ► like the Mercedes E-Class.

00:05:09 ◼   ► Also this guy's suit needs some tailoring

00:05:12 ◼   ► on this front page.

00:05:13 ◼   ► - Oh my, yes.

00:05:13 ◼   ► - It looks like he's just wearing a cardboard box.

00:05:16 ◼   ► - Man, look at that sleeve.

00:05:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, this guy needs,

00:05:19 ◼   ► he has some serious tailoring work to be done.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I don't know if this is like a 2005 thing or not, but like-

00:05:25 ◼   ► - Maybe it was the fashion back then.

00:05:26 ◼   ► - Maybe, I mean, 'cause so was his car

00:05:28 ◼   ► and the car looks like it could do with some tailoring too.

00:05:32 ◼   ► - How did Paul find the car brochure?

00:05:36 ◼   ► Like of all of this, like the car is so boring,

00:05:39 ◼   ► but the workflow for finding this is what fascinates me here.

00:05:43 ◼   ► - So I don't, Stephen put this in the show notes,

00:05:46 ◼   ► so I can't find the exact message, but I did see it go by

00:05:49 ◼   ► and Paul said that they were able to search

00:05:51 ◼   ► like a database of this information.

00:05:54 ◼   ► - Interesting, okay.

00:05:55 ◼   ► - There is like a car brochure database

00:05:58 ◼   ► somewhere in the world.

00:05:59 ◼   ► - Of course there is, of course, okay.

00:06:03 ◼   ► - And they found it that way,

00:06:05 ◼   ► but I don't know how, like the process of like

00:06:09 ◼   ► how they found it, you know what I mean?

00:06:11 ◼   ► Like, because there's still quite a lot of work

00:06:15 ◼   ► that would have needed to be done,

00:06:16 ◼   ► you would assume to be able to match it up.

00:06:18 ◼   ► Maybe they worked out, it was a Mercedes or something.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Maybe Paul had a 2005 Mercedes Benz E-Class

00:06:24 ◼   ► at some point in their life and they were able to-

00:06:26 ◼   ► - Maybe Paul just saw the brochure and said,

00:06:30 ◼   ► "Yeah, that used to be my car."

00:06:33 ◼   ► I remember that. - Exactly.

00:06:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, we can't know, okay, interesting.

00:06:38 ◼   ► - It's from Auto Brochure,

00:06:39 ◼   ► oh, that's like the website that we're linked to,

00:06:41 ◼   ► autobrochures.com, like that's what's in the show notes.

00:06:44 ◼   ► - Oh, that's the database.

00:06:45 ◼   ► - That's the database of old car brochures.

00:06:47 ◼   ► I found it in Discord and they give

00:06:51 ◼   ► absolutely zero information more as to how they found this.

00:06:56 ◼   ► So that could be future follow-up for the show.

00:06:59 ◼   ► You could write in and tell us how you found it, you know?

00:07:03 ◼   ► And also, oh, somebody also sent in to us

00:07:06 ◼   ► that this photo shoot of Steve Jobs' office,

00:07:11 ◼   ► the one that we have all seen before,

00:07:13 ◼   ► is part of a larger photo shoot

00:07:15 ◼   ► that was taken by Diana Walker.

00:07:18 ◼   ► And all of these images are on Getty Images.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And I've got a link in the show notes to that as well.

00:07:26 ◼   ► There's some interesting photos in here.

00:07:28 ◼   ► There's one where he's sitting very uncomfortably

00:07:31 ◼   ► in an outdoor chair with some questionable sandals on.

00:07:36 ◼   ► But there's one image particularly, right,

00:07:39 ◼   ► which is an image of Steve,

00:07:41 ◼   ► and he's smiling, looking at the camera,

00:07:43 ◼   ► and he has his hands in that kind of praying thing.

00:07:45 ◼   ► This is an incredibly famous photo, right?

00:07:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a famous photo of Steve, yes.

00:07:50 ◼   ► I also love the one that I'm trying to paste

00:07:53 ◼   ► in the Discord of Steve on the phone

00:07:58 ◼   ► on what looks like a very ancient cell phone.

00:08:02 ◼   ► Oh, you know, one of those with the little antenna on top.

00:08:07 ◼   ► I assume that's a cell phone.

00:08:09 ◼   ► It's either a cell phone or a cordless--

00:08:11 ◼   ► - No, that's a cell phone.

00:08:12 ◼   ► That's got the dynamics of a cell phone.

00:08:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you can see the battery,

00:08:17 ◼   ► you can see the keypad in the reflection on the window.

00:08:21 ◼   ► You can see the keyboard on the phone.

00:08:23 ◼   ► And it's just, I don't know,

00:08:26 ◼   ► I guess it's just a little bit odd

00:08:29 ◼   ► to see Steve talking on an old cell phone

00:08:33 ◼   ► instead of an iPhone.

00:08:34 ◼   ► - The whole photo shoot's weird, really,

00:08:36 ◼   ► because it's like, just, I don't know,

00:08:38 ◼   ► there's just something about seeing him do all these poses.

00:08:40 ◼   ► It's just like--

00:08:41 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:08:43 ◼   ► - And I like that, obviously in his house,

00:08:45 ◼   ► and really they're only in three places,

00:08:47 ◼   ► it's like outside in this one area,

00:08:49 ◼   ► and in the office, that's it, no more, no less.

00:08:52 ◼   ► And I was reminded, while I'm getting images,

00:08:54 ◼   ► while we're talking about getting images,

00:08:56 ◼   ► I was reminded of the two greatest photos

00:08:59 ◼   ► committed to getting images in all of history.

00:09:01 ◼   ► - Of course.

00:09:02 ◼   ► - Which, I was wondering about this

00:09:04 ◼   ► when I put this in the show notes today.

00:09:06 ◼   ► If maybe some newer listeners don't know about this.

00:09:10 ◼   ► - Oh, well, we should contextualize that.

00:09:12 ◼   ► - So this is 2018, WWDC 2018,

00:09:17 ◼   ► with a showing of watchOS, whatever it is.

00:09:21 ◼   ► And I genuinely don't know,

00:09:24 ◼   ► like this version of watchOS got the podcast app.

00:09:27 ◼   ► - Five or six, maybe?

00:09:29 ◼   ► - And the old version of the connected artwork

00:09:33 ◼   ► was used in the presentation,

00:09:38 ◼   ► much to our surprise for the amount that it got featured.

00:09:42 ◼   ► So much so that it became like the image of the podcast app

00:09:47 ◼   ► was just our artwork on stage

00:09:54 ◼   ► for a significant portion of the presentation,

00:09:57 ◼   ► including photos of Tim Cook standing

00:10:00 ◼   ► with the connected artwork,

00:10:02 ◼   ► just like almost like Bill Gates over Steve Jobs.

00:10:07 ◼   ► You know that famous image?

00:10:09 ◼   ► I don't know if we've ever made that link before,

00:10:12 ◼   ► but looking at these images, how it feels,

00:10:15 ◼   ► it's like the connected podcast is looming over Tim.

00:10:18 ◼   ► And these made it to Getty images.

00:10:20 ◼   ► And I bought the rights to these images

00:10:23 ◼   ► and I have a fracture of them.

00:10:26 ◼   ► - Which is a very expensive rights.

00:10:29 ◼   ► - It's no joke.

00:10:30 ◼   ► It's no joke.

00:10:32 ◼   ► And there is, you know,

00:10:33 ◼   ► I maybe do have questions to ask of Getty images

00:10:37 ◼   ► about copyright,

00:10:38 ◼   ► 'cause I know I didn't tell Getty images

00:10:40 ◼   ► they could take a picture of our artwork,

00:10:42 ◼   ► but I think honestly Apple probably wins out in this one.

00:10:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, probably.

00:10:49 ◼   ► But yeah, I remember being in the audience

00:10:53 ◼   ► during the keynote and freaking out.

00:10:55 ◼   ► And I believe, I want to say it was probably

00:11:00 ◼   ► the same keynote where I got both this and shortcuts

00:11:05 ◼   ► announced in 2018.

00:11:08 ◼   ► So it's quite a day for me.

00:11:10 ◼   ► - This was the particularly weird one

00:11:12 ◼   ► where you were in the audience,

00:11:14 ◼   ► I was in a hotel room, Steven was at home.

00:11:17 ◼   ► That was a very strange keynote morning

00:11:22 ◼   ► where this happened and none of us were together.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:11:26 ◼   ► And there were people texting us

00:11:28 ◼   ► and telling us about it independently.

00:11:32 ◼   ► And we were also freaking out in our iMessage group.

00:11:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a good day.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Was a very good day.

00:11:37 ◼   ► - And I know we told this story before,

00:11:39 ◼   ► but the fun thing was two weeks before this,

00:11:41 ◼   ► we were like, you know what?

00:11:42 ◼   ► We should renew the artwork.

00:11:44 ◼   ► We should refresh the artwork

00:11:46 ◼   ► because it was one of the original pieces

00:11:48 ◼   ► and was maybe on the simple side of our art.

00:11:51 ◼   ► And then we were like,

00:11:52 ◼   ► well, we can't do that for a while.

00:11:53 ◼   ► And then we held it off for some time.

00:11:56 ◼   ► And now you have the more kind of modern 3D

00:12:00 ◼   ► colorful artwork that we have today.

00:12:02 ◼   ► Print editions of "Make Something Wonderful",

00:12:07 ◼   ► the Steve Jobs archive book,

00:12:09 ◼   ► are being listed on eBay for hundreds and hundreds

00:12:12 ◼   ► and hundreds of dollars.

00:12:14 ◼   ► And I would just like to publicly call out many people,

00:12:17 ◼   ► friends of mine who have been sending me images

00:12:19 ◼   ► of their books and just rubbing it in my face.

00:12:21 ◼   ► I still really want one, but it looks great.

00:12:25 ◼   ► But I mean, we could get one if you're willing to pay,

00:12:28 ◼   ► I see one here for buy it now for two and a half thousand

00:12:31 ◼   ► dollars, would you like to?

00:12:32 ◼   ► - Probably not.

00:12:34 ◼   ► I mean, I can buy a new gaming PC for that money.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - You could, I mean, well,

00:12:39 ◼   ► you could buy a lot of things for that money.

00:12:41 ◼   ► - You can buy a lot of things.

00:12:41 ◼   ► I just thought of gaming PC, I don't know why,

00:12:44 ◼   ► but I mean, I would spend, I don't know,

00:12:49 ◼   ► couple hundred maybe to have it.

00:12:52 ◼   ► - I mean, there are a lot of the one here, Federico,

00:12:54 ◼   ► for that kind of money,

00:12:55 ◼   ► but there it's bids.

00:12:57 ◼   ► If you want to do the buy it now,

00:12:58 ◼   ► then you're in some trouble financially.

00:13:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:13:03 ◼   ► I don't know why this isn't follow up,

00:13:07 ◼   ► but I still want to mention it.

00:13:09 ◼   ► If you're using Spotify, for a Spotify user on your iPhone,

00:13:14 ◼   ► you now have the ability to pin a Spotify widget

00:13:17 ◼   ► on the lock screen.

00:13:19 ◼   ► The funny thing is, and I actually posted about this

00:13:23 ◼   ► on Mastodon, so the Spotify quote unquote widget

00:13:26 ◼   ► is literally just a Spotify icon

00:13:29 ◼   ► that you can place on your lock screen

00:13:31 ◼   ► and it launches the Spotify app.

00:13:34 ◼   ► It does nothing else.

00:13:36 ◼   ► There's, it's just an icon launcher.

00:13:39 ◼   ► You can probably make your own

00:13:41 ◼   ► with the other thousand icon launchers

00:13:44 ◼   ► for the lock screen on the App Store,

00:13:46 ◼   ► but that's still one widget more than Apple Music.

00:13:52 ◼   ► So, Apple Music doesn't have any widgets

00:13:56 ◼   ► on the lock screen.

00:13:59 ◼   ► Spotify has one, but it's very sad.

00:14:02 ◼   ► - Like, this is why there isn't an Apple Music widget

00:14:06 ◼   ► on the lock screen, 'cause like, what is that?

00:14:08 ◼   ► Who needs this?

00:14:09 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so this is boring and unnecessary,

00:14:14 ◼   ► but still, you can get creative with these widgets.

00:14:19 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know, make a widget that--

00:14:20 ◼   ► - For music?

00:14:21 ◼   ► - Yes, make a widget that opens a playlist for me.

00:14:24 ◼   ► Make a widget that opens, I don't know,

00:14:26 ◼   ► an album or a section of Apple Music.

00:14:29 ◼   ► - They would tell you, just like, go make that with,

00:14:32 ◼   ► can you do that with shortcuts?

00:14:33 ◼   ► - No.

00:14:34 ◼   ► - No, 'cause you can't do shortcuts on a lock screen.

00:14:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so you see, it's just,

00:14:41 ◼   ► it's a sad situation all around,

00:14:44 ◼   ► but it's more sad for Apple Music,

00:14:48 ◼   ► because at least Spotify tried in a bad way

00:14:53 ◼   ► with a questionable result, but at least they did something.

00:14:57 ◼   ► And I guess, broadly speaking,

00:14:59 ◼   ► broadly speaking, Apple Music has a problem

00:15:02 ◼   ► with widgets on iOS, and I wanna believe

00:15:06 ◼   ► that's something they're gonna do for iOS 17.

00:15:09 ◼   ► We're now reached that time of year when we're saying,

00:15:11 ◼   ► oh, maybe that's gonna be fixed in iOS 17,

00:15:14 ◼   ► and we come up with a list of 30 different items,

00:15:16 ◼   ► and Apple is gonna do five, but really,

00:15:19 ◼   ► I do believe that it's about time to have better,

00:15:22 ◼   ► more and better widgets, both on the lock screen

00:15:26 ◼   ► and on the home screen.

00:15:27 ◼   ► I think the fact that Apple Music on the home screen

00:15:31 ◼   ► still doesn't have an interactive now playing widget,

00:15:35 ◼   ► which it does offer on Android,

00:15:38 ◼   ► I think that the lack of that widget on iOS is ridiculous.

00:15:42 ◼   ► - I think if the rumors are true,

00:15:44 ◼   ► that there will be interactive widgets for iOS 17,

00:15:48 ◼   ► that might be why there isn't anything good right now,

00:15:50 ◼   ► because realistically, a music widget is best

00:15:54 ◼   ► when it is interactive, right?

00:15:57 ◼   ► - Yeah, yes, yes.

00:15:58 ◼   ► - Just an image of, a widget of like,

00:16:02 ◼   ► hey, here's some music, you know?

00:16:06 ◼   ► I'm not sure how good that is,

00:16:08 ◼   ► but one where you can play pause,

00:16:11 ◼   ► maybe skim about a little bit, that's better.

00:16:14 ◼   ► - I don't know if you caught this,

00:16:16 ◼   ► well, I don't wanna call it drama,

00:16:17 ◼   ► but this little super mini excess-sized controversy.

00:16:22 ◼   ► You must have seen, I mean,

00:16:27 ◼   ► you did the Rumor Roundup with Jason.

00:16:29 ◼   ► You've seen MacRumors lately post all these details

00:16:32 ◼   ► from this leaker in the MacRumors forums, right?

00:16:35 ◼   ► - Yes, I've been, yes,

00:16:37 ◼   ► they've been filling up Rumor Roundup

00:16:38 ◼   ► over the last couple weeks of this stuff.

00:16:40 ◼   ► - Yes, and did you see last night,

00:16:42 ◼   ► I believe on Mastodon, Mark Gurman tell MacRumors,

00:16:46 ◼   ► a lot of information I've seen from this person

00:16:48 ◼   ► is just incorrect.

00:16:50 ◼   ► - Ooh, I did not see that.

00:16:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I saw that. - Ooh, drama, love it.

00:16:55 ◼   ► - I saw that, so I wanna see what happens on that front,

00:16:58 ◼   ► because this person on the MacRumors forums

00:17:00 ◼   ► has been posting a lot of info.

00:17:03 ◼   ► It seems like it's all happening all at once.

00:17:05 ◼   ► And then I just saw it,

00:17:07 ◼   ► and it was actually like a reply from Mark to somebody else.

00:17:11 ◼   ► I don't remember who.

00:17:13 ◼   ► - I don't see this on Mark's Mastodon.

00:17:16 ◼   ► - Was it on Twitter?

00:17:18 ◼   ► Because I still keep an eye on Twitter from time to time,

00:17:20 ◼   ► even though I don't tweet.

00:17:22 ◼   ► - I don't think Mark is very active on Mastodon.

00:17:24 ◼   ► I think he had a pretty bad experience.

00:17:25 ◼   ► - Did I dream this?

00:17:26 ◼   ► Because it's also possible that I dreamt this.

00:17:29 ◼   ► - No, here it is on Twitter.

00:17:30 ◼   ► Many of the details I've seen from this account are not true.

00:17:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it, that's it, yes.

00:17:38 ◼   ► - And then Joe Rossignol, a friend of the show,

00:17:40 ◼   ► says which ones just so we can update if necessary.

00:17:43 ◼   ► And then no reply.

00:17:45 ◼   ► - And then no reply.

00:17:46 ◼   ► - Dun, dun, dun.

00:17:48 ◼   ► - Yes, it's like, wait for my newsletter.

00:17:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm gonna power on and then you'll find out.

00:17:54 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:17:55 ◼   ► So we'll see what happens with all these iOS rumors,

00:17:59 ◼   ► but this is something worth keeping an eye on.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Anyway, yes, so Spotify on the lock screen,

00:18:06 ◼   ► which by the way,

00:18:09 ◼   ► on the Pro show we spoke about,

00:18:11 ◼   ► where can people, first of all,

00:18:12 ◼   ► where can people get the pro version of Connected?

00:18:15 ◼   ► - Very good pro version today,

00:18:17 ◼   ► where Federico talks about his productivity apps,

00:18:21 ◼   ► his to-do apps that he's using right now.

00:18:23 ◼   ► You can go to getconnectedpro.co

00:18:26 ◼   ► and you can sign up.

00:18:27 ◼   ► $5 a month or $50 a year.

00:18:29 ◼   ► You get longer ad-free versions

00:18:31 ◼   ► every single week of this show,

00:18:33 ◼   ► plus a ton of other benefits of being a Relay FM member.

00:18:36 ◼   ► If you ever hear us say from the Discord,

00:18:38 ◼   ► the Discord is a Relay FM member perk,

00:18:40 ◼   ► you get access to that if you sign up for Connected Pro

00:18:43 ◼   ► and you help support this show at getconnectedpro.co.

00:18:46 ◼   ► - Yes, thank you, Mike.

00:18:48 ◼   ► As part of my sort of,

00:18:52 ◼   ► I called it teaching the wilderness,

00:18:54 ◼   ► like the past six months of my life,

00:18:56 ◼   ► reevaluating all the things I use,

00:18:59 ◼   ► both hardware and software and services.

00:19:01 ◼   ► I've tried a lot of things

00:19:04 ◼   ► and one of the aspects that I'm still uncertain about,

00:19:09 ◼   ► unable to make a decision,

00:19:11 ◼   ► is the eternal debate, Spotify or Apple Music.

00:19:16 ◼   ► I've been using Spotify since January 1st.

00:19:20 ◼   ► I don't love Spotify.

00:19:24 ◼   ► See, that's the thing, I don't love Spotify.

00:19:26 ◼   ► I don't love the app.

00:19:28 ◼   ► I don't love the lyrics,

00:19:30 ◼   ► the way that real-time lyrics work.

00:19:32 ◼   ► I don't love that it doesn't have lossless

00:19:35 ◼   ► and high-res lossless like Apple Music.

00:19:37 ◼   ► I don't love that it keeps showing me podcasts

00:19:43 ◼   ► I should listen to,

00:19:44 ◼   ► but the search and the recommendations

00:19:48 ◼   ► and the playlists are excellent.

00:19:52 ◼   ► And then of course,

00:19:53 ◼   ► everything else about Apple Music I prefer

00:19:55 ◼   ► and I like better.

00:19:56 ◼   ► I like the design, I like the focus on music.

00:20:00 ◼   ► I like that I can use third-party clients like Marvis,

00:20:03 ◼   ► for example.

00:20:04 ◼   ► I'm still unable to decide here.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I don't know what else is more important for me.

00:20:10 ◼   ► Is it the intelligence and the recommendations

00:20:13 ◼   ► and the fast search

00:20:16 ◼   ► or is Apple Music's everything else?

00:20:20 ◼   ► We'll see about this.

00:20:22 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Honestly, right now I'm alternating between the two

00:20:27 ◼   ► and I still don't know what is better for me.

00:20:31 ◼   ► - I feel like one of the simple things to Spotify

00:20:34 ◼   ► is just like, do you want new music?

00:20:37 ◼   ► And I know some people might think that is a stupid question

00:20:40 ◼   ► that I've just asked.

00:20:41 ◼   ► - No, it's not.

00:20:42 ◼   ► It's not.

00:20:42 ◼   ► - Right, no, I think people would think it's stupid

00:20:44 ◼   ► in the other sense of like, well, why wouldn't you?

00:20:47 ◼   ► - Hmm. - Right?

00:20:49 ◼   ► Well, I am in the like, I don't, I'm good.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Like I got my bands and then I have you and Jon

00:20:57 ◼   ► and my wife, Idina.

00:20:59 ◼   ► That's where all my music comes from.

00:21:01 ◼   ► See what bands I already know

00:21:02 ◼   ► or these three people in my life

00:21:04 ◼   ► that tell me I should listen to something.

00:21:07 ◼   ► I am in my mid 30s, like I'm good, right?

00:21:11 ◼   ► Like I have enough.

00:21:13 ◼   ► I'm good, I'm good with music, you know?

00:21:15 ◼   ► And little bits pop in every now and then.

00:21:18 ◼   ► I saw it as a new Foo Fighters album coming in June.

00:21:20 ◼   ► Saw that today, so I'm like, great,

00:21:23 ◼   ► well, that's gonna go into my library when that comes out.

00:21:25 ◼   ► You know, like that's good for me.

00:21:27 ◼   ► But if you're like you or like Jon or like Idina

00:21:31 ◼   ► or probably many of the people who listens to the show,

00:21:33 ◼   ► you want new music and that's what Spotify is really good at.

00:21:36 ◼   ► Like really, really, really, really good at.

00:21:38 ◼   ► I don't, and I know Apple Music has these features

00:21:43 ◼   ► but like it's not as good, right?

00:21:46 ◼   ► Like 'cause this is Spotify's entire business.

00:21:48 ◼   ► It's like discover.

00:21:50 ◼   ► - Yes, I don't know what I'll choose, honestly.

00:21:55 ◼   ► If I were to guess probably Apple Music

00:21:58 ◼   ► because I can still use a bunch of other tools

00:22:01 ◼   ► for music discovery, whether it's reading music websites

00:22:05 ◼   ► or using Music Harbor and like all these other utilities

00:22:08 ◼   ► for discovering music.

00:22:10 ◼   ► But we'll see, I don't know, I don't know.

00:22:13 ◼   ► - Did you see, you obviously saw.

00:22:15 ◼   ► - I saw this.

00:22:16 ◼   ► - The images of Tim Cook with the Mac SE.

00:22:20 ◼   ► - It's such a lovely,

00:22:22 ◼   ► I've seen both the images and the video.

00:22:25 ◼   ► - There's a video?

00:22:26 ◼   ► - There's a video version of this.

00:22:28 ◼   ► - I have not seen the video of this.

00:22:30 ◼   ► - Oh, let me find this.

00:22:31 ◼   ► - Find this video for me.

00:22:32 ◼   ► - Did I mark this as a favorite anywhere?

00:22:37 ◼   ► - Is this another dream or is there actually a video?

00:22:39 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

00:22:40 ◼   ► This is actually.

00:22:41 ◼   ► - So this was at the opening of a new store,

00:22:46 ◼   ► the Apple BKC store in Mumbai.

00:22:50 ◼   ► It's another very beautiful Apple store.

00:22:52 ◼   ► Apple put out like a newsroom post about it

00:22:55 ◼   ► and it is just again, once again,

00:22:57 ◼   ► a stunning piece of architecture

00:23:00 ◼   ► that they have been able to pull together

00:23:02 ◼   ► with this beautiful new Apple store.

00:23:04 ◼   ► But at this Apple store opening,

00:23:05 ◼   ► Tim Cook was there as he tends to be,

00:23:08 ◼   ► you know, on these little tours around the place.

00:23:10 ◼   ► And a customer brought a Macintosh SE

00:23:14 ◼   ► to the store for Tim to sign.

00:23:16 ◼   ► And Tim Cook's face when he sees it

00:23:20 ◼   ► is absolutely incredible.

00:23:23 ◼   ► I saw somebody say, I don't remember,

00:23:25 ◼   ► "Oh, oh, this video is incredible."

00:23:27 ◼   ► - The video is perfect.

00:23:28 ◼   ► - This video is so good.

00:23:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a proper CNBC video.

00:23:33 ◼   ► It's like a TV video.

00:23:34 ◼   ► - And I saw someone say that like,

00:23:37 ◼   ► this is maybe the most, like the most emotion

00:23:40 ◼   ► they've ever seen Tim Cook give.

00:23:43 ◼   ► And I agree.

00:23:44 ◼   ► What I like about this is like,

00:23:46 ◼   ► he seems genuinely excited about the fact

00:23:49 ◼   ► that this guy bought a Macintosh SE.

00:23:52 ◼   ► I think I saw John Goober say like,

00:23:53 ◼   ► "These things weigh like 18 pounds."

00:23:55 ◼   ► Just like, "Oh dude, I've just been carrying this thing

00:23:58 ◼   ► around all day standing in a line or whatever."

00:24:01 ◼   ► This is so great.

00:24:02 ◼   ► Like, oh, I love this.

00:24:03 ◼   ► This video is excellent.

00:24:05 ◼   ► Tim Cook is a real sport about this one, I think.

00:24:08 ◼   ► Like really like gives this guy a moment, right?

00:24:12 ◼   ► Like we're watching this video now,

00:24:14 ◼   ► he's like taking pictures with him.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Like, this is fantastic.

00:24:17 ◼   ► This is very heartwarming.

00:24:18 ◼   ► I love Tim Cook.

00:24:20 ◼   ► What can I say?

00:24:21 ◼   ► I think I saw someone say,

00:24:23 ◼   ► I saw this on MassaDon I think recently

00:24:25 ◼   ► that like Tim Cook is now the longest serving CEO.

00:24:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, that was a couple of days ago.

00:24:32 ◼   ► I wanna say 4,500 something days.

00:24:37 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:24:38 ◼   ► - What's that in like 12 years or something like that?

00:24:42 ◼   ► - Something like that, yeah.

00:24:43 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:24:44 ◼   ► I just, I would like to offer you a mental image, Mike.

00:24:50 ◼   ► - Give it to me.

00:24:51 ◼   ► - Try and compare in your mind this Tim Cook face

00:24:56 ◼   ► with Tim Cook waving the checkered flag at the F1 race.

00:25:02 ◼   ► - He didn't wanna do it, you know?

00:25:04 ◼   ► Like he did it, he clearly did it.

00:25:05 ◼   ► And I don't think anybody checked with him beforehand.

00:25:08 ◼   ► He wasn't happy about it.

00:25:09 ◼   ► - That's the range of Tim Cook's expressions for you.

00:25:13 ◼   ► - They should have had him throw an SE onto the track.

00:25:16 ◼   ► Maybe that would have done it, you know?

00:25:18 ◼   ► Like that's what he wanted.

00:25:21 ◼   ► - Just to let you know, passionate ones,

00:25:23 ◼   ► even just from the people listening live,

00:25:25 ◼   ► Steven has just sent us a text message saying,

00:25:27 ◼   ► "What have you done to my mentions?"

00:25:28 ◼   ► So please keep it up. - Perfect.

00:25:30 ◼   ► - Remember the name of your first Mac,

00:25:33 ◼   ► the year that you got it in parentheses, the regular kind.

00:25:38 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:25:39 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by our friends

00:25:41 ◼   ► over at FitBud.

00:25:42 ◼   ► Getting fitter is one of those things

00:25:43 ◼   ► that can have really great knock on effects

00:25:45 ◼   ► in other areas of your life

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00:25:48 ◼   ► Like having more energy, sleeping better, for me,

00:25:51 ◼   ► just doing some strength training really helped combat

00:25:54 ◼   ► and like tackle my RSI pains

00:25:56 ◼   ► and now I can play video games as much as I like.

00:25:58 ◼   ► But all of this stuff can be really hard

00:26:00 ◼   ► when you're thinking about where to get started.

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00:26:34 ◼   ► shot from multiple angles to make sure

00:26:36 ◼   ► that learning every single exercise is a breeze.

00:26:39 ◼   ► This also integrates with your Apple Watch,

00:26:41 ◼   ► Wear a Smart Watch and apps like Strava, Fitbit

00:26:43 ◼   ► and Apple Health to help you give that full picture

00:26:46 ◼   ► of your fitness training.

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00:27:00 ◼   ► to your available gym equipment.

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00:28:11 ◼   ► Our thanks to FitBud for the support of this show

00:28:13 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

00:28:14 ◼   ► - So I have a tiny topic that I would like to talk about,

00:28:18 ◼   ► but first let me ask you a question, Mike,

00:28:21 ◼   ► to go back to the previous tiny topic of Tim Cook.

00:28:23 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:28:24 ◼   ► - Do you think that if in 30 years

00:28:27 ◼   ► I show up at the opening of an Apple store,

00:28:30 ◼   ► wherever that's gonna be,

00:28:32 ◼   ► and I show up with a base model, 10th generation iPad

00:28:36 ◼   ► with an Apple Pencil plugged into the adapter

00:28:38 ◼   ► that is plugged into the iPad,

00:28:41 ◼   ► if I show up with that weird thing in 30 years,

00:28:44 ◼   ► will I get the same reaction?

00:28:46 ◼   ► - Well, probably not from Tim Cook.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - Right.

00:28:49 ◼   ► - 'Cause I'm gonna assume in 30 years time

00:28:53 ◼   ► he won't be that person.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - Because technically it seems healthy enough.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Like technically you could be a CEO at 90 something years old.

00:29:03 ◼   ► - You could be, he's 62 right now.

00:29:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I could be a CEO at 92.

00:29:09 ◼   ► - I don't think he will be.

00:29:12 ◼   ► - But when you go see my boy John Turnus,

00:29:14 ◼   ► who will be CEO at that point.

00:29:16 ◼   ► - Right, right.

00:29:17 ◼   ► Do you think I will be greeted by John Turnus,

00:29:19 ◼   ► or will I be escorted out of the line?

00:29:24 ◼   ► - I have nothing to,

00:29:25 ◼   ► I expect nothing but John Turnus

00:29:28 ◼   ► giving you a very warm grin.

00:29:30 ◼   ► - Nice, nice.

00:29:31 ◼   ► With the 10th generation base model iPad

00:29:34 ◼   ► plugged into an adapter, plugged into an Apple Pencil.

00:29:37 ◼   ► - 'Cause he will say,

00:29:38 ◼   ► how great you even provided me

00:29:40 ◼   ► with the thing to sign this with.

00:29:42 ◼   ► 'Cause the pencil is already there

00:29:45 ◼   ► and you can just sign the iPad.

00:29:46 ◼   ► - Or I could just say, hey, 30 years later,

00:29:49 ◼   ► do you now feel bad about this in hindsight?

00:29:54 ◼   ► - I will still, I will go to my grave

00:29:58 ◼   ► defending the original Apple Pencil.

00:29:59 ◼   ► It was like, you needed to be able to charge the tool

00:30:05 ◼   ► from the device.

00:30:07 ◼   ► There was no other way to do that at the time.

00:30:10 ◼   ► - You got to plug it in the bottom there,

00:30:11 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

00:30:13 ◼   ► - But still, I mean, look at it.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Anyway, anyway, okay.

00:30:18 ◼   ► We don't need to talk about that.

00:30:19 ◼   ► It was just a thought exercise.

00:30:22 ◼   ► So the title of this topic,

00:30:24 ◼   ► and you will appreciate, I hope the alliteration,

00:30:29 ◼   ► or how do you call this as a figure of speech?

00:30:32 ◼   ► - Assonance, I think.

00:30:34 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Oh my God, yes, you know English.

00:30:37 ◼   ► I appreciate you.

00:30:38 ◼   ► Teaching needs teaching, okay?

00:30:42 ◼   ► The idea being that now that I'm a Mac user again,

00:30:45 ◼   ► I need tips, I need recommendation.

00:30:48 ◼   ► I want to know from you, from the people, from everybody,

00:30:53 ◼   ► I need good Mac apps and utilities.

00:30:56 ◼   ► And I'm referring to like the little known third party stuff,

00:31:01 ◼   ► little utilities, little hacks, whatever.

00:31:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna give you some context

00:31:06 ◼   ► because I've been building up my portfolio,

00:31:09 ◼   ► my collection again, okay?

00:31:11 ◼   ► I have some that I want to mention.

00:31:13 ◼   ► I mean, of course I'm using Raycast.

00:31:15 ◼   ► That's the thing everybody's using these days.

00:31:17 ◼   ► It's a launcher.

00:31:18 ◼   ► To answer Emma in Discord,

00:31:22 ◼   ► yes, I signed up for a setup subscription.

00:31:26 ◼   ► So that's actually been a great way

00:31:29 ◼   ► to discover some of these Mac utilities,

00:31:31 ◼   ► like just browsing through the setup gallery.

00:31:34 ◼   ► That's been fantastic.

00:31:36 ◼   ► Some of the other things I have,

00:31:37 ◼   ► of course I have better touch tool.

00:31:39 ◼   ► That's what I'm using to remap some keyboard shortcuts

00:31:42 ◼   ► on my Mac to assign some custom actions

00:31:44 ◼   ► to trackpad gestures, for example.

00:31:47 ◼   ► That's what I'm doing.

00:31:48 ◼   ► I'm gonna get a little deep

00:31:49 ◼   ► into the lesser known stuff now, Mike.

00:31:53 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:31:54 ◼   ► - Naptunes.

00:31:56 ◼   ► - I have no idea.

00:31:57 ◼   ► - This is a little utility that sits in the menu bar

00:31:59 ◼   ► and mirrors what I'm listening to

00:32:02 ◼   ► either in Apple Music or Spotify

00:32:04 ◼   ► to my last FM account.

00:32:05 ◼   ► It's a scrubber.

00:32:06 ◼   ► - Oh, it's a scrubble tool, baby.

00:32:08 ◼   ► - It's a scrubble tool.

00:32:09 ◼   ► - Scrubble it up.

00:32:10 ◼   ► Scrubble it up.

00:32:11 ◼   ► - All day scrubbling.

00:32:12 ◼   ► Never, never without scrubbling.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Naptunes.

00:32:16 ◼   ► Very, very good.

00:32:17 ◼   ► - Is that all it does?

00:32:18 ◼   ► It just squabbles?

00:32:19 ◼   ► - Well, it's got some keyboard shortcuts.

00:32:21 ◼   ► It's got some keyboard shortcuts.

00:32:23 ◼   ► You can love, you can love tracks.

00:32:26 ◼   ► You can play pause.

00:32:29 ◼   ► It's got multiple themes.

00:32:31 ◼   ► Like, look, it's actually very good.

00:32:33 ◼   ► It's a very good Mac app.

00:32:34 ◼   ► Next one.

00:32:36 ◼   ► I was missing the way that the Alt+Tab

00:32:40 ◼   ► sort of switcher works and looks on Windows.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And there's an equivalent third-party utility for Mac

00:32:49 ◼   ► called, well, Alt+Tab, which is like,

00:32:52 ◼   ► it's like Command+Tab, but it's not just icons.

00:32:55 ◼   ► It's also got previews of the windows.

00:32:57 ◼   ► - That's good, actually.

00:32:59 ◼   ► - It's very good.

00:33:00 ◼   ► - I like that.

00:33:01 ◼   ► I'm gonna keep this tab open for myself.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - We're gonna talk about this at some point.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Like, I am firmly convinced that Windows 11

00:33:09 ◼   ► does a lot of multitasking-related things

00:33:12 ◼   ► better than Mac OS and iPad OS.

00:33:14 ◼   ► - Or that kind of stuff.

00:33:16 ◼   ► - And this is one of the, like, the Alt+Tab switcher.

00:33:19 ◼   ► There's a Mac OS equivalent.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Also speaking of multitasking, Lasso.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Like TED.

00:33:27 ◼   ► So this is a brand, this is a relatively new,

00:33:30 ◼   ► like indie multitasking enhancement

00:33:34 ◼   ► that allows you to resize windows on Mac OS

00:33:38 ◼   ► by drawing the area you want the window to occupy on screen.

00:33:43 ◼   ► It's easier to understand what it does

00:33:46 ◼   ► by going to the website and seeing, like,

00:33:48 ◼   ► the images and the GIFs in action

00:33:51 ◼   ► than hearing me talk about it.

00:33:53 ◼   ► It's very good. - Let me ask you something.

00:33:55 ◼   ► What do you think about the icon for Lasso?

00:33:59 ◼   ► - Well, I don't even remember the icon.

00:34:00 ◼   ► What's the icon? - So if you go to the website,

00:34:02 ◼   ► you look like I got a little icon.

00:34:03 ◼   ► - Ah, it's like, it's the, it's cute.

00:34:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a bit unfortunate, I think.

00:34:10 ◼   ► - Wait, why is it a-

00:34:13 ◼   ► - So I see it as like a small,

00:34:15 ◼   ► little small favicon in my Safari tabs here.

00:34:19 ◼   ► It looks like, it looks like the icon's wearing, like,

00:34:22 ◼   ► a thong. - Oh, oh.

00:34:26 ◼   ► Oh, yeah. - It's not great.

00:34:28 ◼   ► - Well, well. - Great placement.

00:34:30 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:34:31 ◼   ► - Now they- - I mean, like,

00:34:32 ◼   ► you do you icon, you know?

00:34:33 ◼   ► Like, if that's what you're looking for, you go for it.

00:34:35 ◼   ► But like- - Ah, yeah, now I-

00:34:38 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:34:38 ◼   ► I don't know, man. - Oh, God.

00:34:40 ◼   ► Oh, God. - I don't know, man.

00:34:42 ◼   ► - So anyway.

00:34:43 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:34:45 ◼   ► You just had to mention this.

00:34:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, look, if I'm gonna have to see it,

00:34:49 ◼   ► everyone else is gonna have to get it in their heads too.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Why should I suffer in silence?

00:34:52 ◼   ► - So the good thing is you never see the icon.

00:34:56 ◼   ► You can hide the icon from the dock.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And I use Bartender, of course.

00:35:01 ◼   ► So I never see it in the menu bar either.

00:35:03 ◼   ► And I'll tell you, I mapped the keyboard shortcut for it

00:35:08 ◼   ► to my Logilift vertical mouse.

00:35:13 ◼   ► - Oh, that's so smart. - Yes.

00:35:15 ◼   ► It's super smart because now I can just hit my thumb.

00:35:19 ◼   ► I'm doing this now. - Yeah.

00:35:20 ◼   ► - I'm clicking.

00:35:21 ◼   ► And of course, Lasso supports multiple displays.

00:35:25 ◼   ► So I'm just, for example,

00:35:26 ◼   ► I'm resizing the Safari window now

00:35:28 ◼   ► with the little drawing tool.

00:35:30 ◼   ► - I use Moom, right?

00:35:33 ◼   ► Like that's the app that I use for window management.

00:35:36 ◼   ► But I have like a bunch of just like presets that I use.

00:35:41 ◼   ► But sometimes I want something ad hoc or like specific.

00:35:45 ◼   ► And I'm gonna download Lasso and try this out

00:35:48 ◼   ► 'cause I really like the way this UI looks.

00:35:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's very nice.

00:35:52 ◼   ► And the last one I'll mention,

00:35:53 ◼   ► this one I got from SetApp, almighty.

00:35:56 ◼   ► So this almighty, it's like,

00:35:58 ◼   ► this is a collection of Mac OS, like hacks.

00:36:02 ◼   ► I don't mean like in a way that it's like

00:36:06 ◼   ► it's hacking your computer.

00:36:08 ◼   ► But you know like those terminal commands

00:36:10 ◼   ► that allow you to like enable a flag,

00:36:13 ◼   ► like those, what are they called?

00:36:14 ◼   ► Like those commands.

00:36:16 ◼   ► - Pee-less, pee?

00:36:18 ◼   ► - No, like when you gotta use a terminal command

00:36:23 ◼   ► to I don't know, like show hidden files

00:36:25 ◼   ► or like show extensions, whatever in Finder.

00:36:28 ◼   ► It's like a collection of those configurations,

00:36:31 ◼   ► I guess, for Mac OS with the UI, with like a proper UI.

00:36:35 ◼   ► And it's so well done, you can choose which ones to enable.

00:36:39 ◼   ► You can choose which ones to mark as favorites.

00:36:42 ◼   ► And those favorites you will find as like one click toggles

00:36:47 ◼   ► in the menu bar.

00:36:48 ◼   ► - Can you tell me what kind of things

00:36:50 ◼   ► you're doing with this?

00:36:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, so for example, the toggles that I have now,

00:36:55 ◼   ► one is enable dark mode.

00:36:57 ◼   ► So like I click on the menu bar icon

00:36:59 ◼   ► and just enable dark mode.

00:37:00 ◼   ► Another is show desktop icons.

00:37:03 ◼   ► So on demand defaults, thank you Vince,

00:37:06 ◼   ► those defaults commands, that's what I was referring to.

00:37:09 ◼   ► - That's a bad name for what these things are.

00:37:12 ◼   ► - It is, it is a bad name.

00:37:13 ◼   ► So the other one is show desktop icons.

00:37:16 ◼   ► If I need to take a video or a screenshot or something,

00:37:19 ◼   ► and I can just choose to show or hide

00:37:21 ◼   ► all the icons on my desktop.

00:37:23 ◼   ► And that's one click away in the menu bar.

00:37:25 ◼   ► Then I got another, visualize keystrokes.

00:37:28 ◼   ► So again, if I'm recording a video

00:37:30 ◼   ► and I wanna show what keyboard combination I'm typing,

00:37:33 ◼   ► this lets me do it.

00:37:34 ◼   ► Show live camera.

00:37:37 ◼   ► This is a fantastic one.

00:37:39 ◼   ► You flip this toggle and a little circular preview

00:37:44 ◼   ► of your webcam pops up in the bottom left corner

00:37:48 ◼   ► of your Mac.

00:37:49 ◼   ► So you can quickly check.

00:37:50 ◼   ► - Why is that a thing the Mac can just do?

00:37:53 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:37:55 ◼   ► - Right? - I don't know.

00:37:55 ◼   ► - Why is that like a thing?

00:37:57 ◼   ► That's why. - I don't know.

00:37:58 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:37:59 ◼   ► So almighty and just today, just as of today,

00:38:04 ◼   ► I got an update notification via setup

00:38:08 ◼   ► and almighty was updated with something else

00:38:11 ◼   ► that I loved from windows,

00:38:14 ◼   ► which is a dock window preview tool.

00:38:17 ◼   ► So that when you hover with your mouse over an icon

00:38:22 ◼   ► in your dock, you get a thumbnail preview

00:38:25 ◼   ► of all the open windows for that application

00:38:29 ◼   ► on your computer.

00:38:30 ◼   ► - This also feels like those two things you just mentioned,

00:38:33 ◼   ► they feel like things that the developers built, right?

00:38:35 ◼   ► Rather than just being. - Yes.

00:38:37 ◼   ► - But this sounds like a great little set of utilities.

00:38:39 ◼   ► - Yes, it's a set of utilities

00:38:40 ◼   ► and especially this dock preview tool.

00:38:43 ◼   ► It's something else that I love from windows.

00:38:45 ◼   ► Like you can preview windows from the dock

00:38:47 ◼   ► and close them from the dock, super nicely done.

00:38:52 ◼   ► But these are like five things or six things

00:38:56 ◼   ► that I have on my Mac.

00:38:57 ◼   ► I need more.

00:38:58 ◼   ► You see?

00:39:00 ◼   ► - I have four for you.

00:39:01 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:39:02 ◼   ► - There is some overlap for the things

00:39:04 ◼   ► you were talking about.

00:39:05 ◼   ► Like one of mine is an app

00:39:08 ◼   ► and I'll just say all of these that I'm mentioning,

00:39:11 ◼   ► I got all of these from Setapp as well.

00:39:13 ◼   ► Setapp has been and is a sponsor of Relay FM shows.

00:39:17 ◼   ► I pay for my own Setapp subscription.

00:39:19 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, me too.

00:39:20 ◼   ► I signed up last night.

00:39:21 ◼   ► - And I like Setapp for these kinds of apps.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Like there's loads of them on there

00:39:27 ◼   ► and it's just very easy to find them.

00:39:28 ◼   ► And then you don't have to bother

00:39:29 ◼   ► with like getting different licenses.

00:39:32 ◼   ► So like, I like it for that.

00:39:34 ◼   ► They are not a sponsor of this episode.

00:39:35 ◼   ► I wish they were,

00:39:36 ◼   ► 'cause like they would have fit very nicely with content,

00:39:39 ◼   ► but they're not, but I recommend it.

00:39:42 ◼   ► So one of mine is an app called Hand Mirror,

00:39:45 ◼   ► which is, it's a menu bar app that can give you

00:39:49 ◼   ► just a quick preview of the webcam that you have.

00:39:54 ◼   ► So you can see yourself if you're about to go

00:39:56 ◼   ► into like a video call or something.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Just like a very quick, you just tap it and it pops up.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And if you have one of the Macs of a notch,

00:40:04 ◼   ► you can just move your mouse onto the notch.

00:40:06 ◼   ► - That's nice.

00:40:07 ◼   ► - And it'll pop it down.

00:40:08 ◼   ► So I like that one.

00:40:10 ◼   ► CleanShot X.

00:40:11 ◼   ► - Oh, I love this one.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Yes, I also use it.

00:40:14 ◼   ► The best is if you use a Mac, you should have this app.

00:40:18 ◼   ► Like I cannot speak highly enough about this application.

00:40:22 ◼   ► It does everything regarding capturing screenshots, videos.

00:40:27 ◼   ► It's so simple to use.

00:40:30 ◼   ► Everything is built better than Apple's tools.

00:40:32 ◼   ► It's all more visible.

00:40:33 ◼   ► It's all easier.

00:40:34 ◼   ► Like for example, if you take a bunch of screenshots,

00:40:36 ◼   ► you can have them just all stay in that little preview area

00:40:39 ◼   ► until you're done with them,

00:40:39 ◼   ► rather than go away like they do on the Mac.

00:40:42 ◼   ► Now the scrolling capture I use a lot

00:40:44 ◼   ► and they have an auto scrolling feature.

00:40:45 ◼   ► So you want to capture like a large piece of an app

00:40:49 ◼   ► or a webpage or like whatever, and you've got to scroll it.

00:40:52 ◼   ► You just draw the area, press auto scroll.

00:40:54 ◼   ► It'll just scroll until you stop.

00:40:55 ◼   ► It's fantastic.

00:40:56 ◼   ► I love that.

00:40:58 ◼   ► You mentioned about like one of the things you'd like

00:41:00 ◼   ► from the almighty app was to show and hide desktop icons.

00:41:05 ◼   ► That's also a feature in CleanShot.

00:41:07 ◼   ► So you can just have it automatically show

00:41:09 ◼   ► or not show your desktop items

00:41:11 ◼   ► and you're taking screenshots.

00:41:13 ◼   ► If you ever take screenshots or videos on your Mac,

00:41:17 ◼   ► you should be using CleanShot.

00:41:18 ◼   ► I'm going to recommend two others to you Federico,

00:41:22 ◼   ► which don't do things you've mentioned previously.

00:41:24 ◼   ► One is called DropZone.

00:41:27 ◼   ► DropZone is a menu bar app.

00:41:30 ◼   ► - This has been around for a long time I think.

00:41:32 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:41:33 ◼   ► - DropZone, yeah.

00:41:34 ◼   ► - And you can configure it to basically,

00:41:36 ◼   ► if you're dragging and dropping a file,

00:41:38 ◼   ► is like here's like a bunch of places

00:41:39 ◼   ► you might drag and drop a file to.

00:41:42 ◼   ► Mine is very simple, like what I have it set up for.

00:41:45 ◼   ► My DropZone has my receipts folder

00:41:48 ◼   ► where I have to save receipts for my accountant.

00:41:51 ◼   ► I have an action to zip files that I drag to it.

00:41:55 ◼   ► And the easiest one for me is airdrop

00:41:56 ◼   ► because like airdrop is just like not as simple

00:41:59 ◼   ► as I want it to be.

00:42:01 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:42:02 ◼   ► - Right?

00:42:02 ◼   ► It's like you got to do the thing,

00:42:04 ◼   ► you got to go to finder, press the airdrop thing.

00:42:06 ◼   ► You got to right click and then share.

00:42:07 ◼   ► No, I don't like it.

00:42:08 ◼   ► So I take a file, I drag it over the DropZone icon,

00:42:11 ◼   ► drop it on the airdrop icon

00:42:13 ◼   ► and it just opens up the airdrop sharing thing

00:42:15 ◼   ► and let's you share it.

00:42:16 ◼   ► But you can set a bunch of things here.

00:42:18 ◼   ► Like if you're uploading to an SFTP or FTP server a lot,

00:42:22 ◼   ► you can do that.

00:42:23 ◼   ► You can do URL shortening with it

00:42:24 ◼   ► and you can configure that.

00:42:26 ◼   ► There's like a bunch of things that you can set up.

00:42:29 ◼   ► And I'm sure someone like you, who's very resourceful,

00:42:33 ◼   ► would be able to find a bunch of different things

00:42:34 ◼   ► that you might want to share files to

00:42:36 ◼   ► and this is a good way to do that.

00:42:38 ◼   ► You know, like if you had,

00:42:40 ◼   ► you could have a folder that Hazel's watching

00:42:42 ◼   ► for something, right?

00:42:43 ◼   ► You could drag it into DropZone,

00:42:45 ◼   ► it will take it into that folder

00:42:46 ◼   ► and then Hazel's going to do whatever it's going to do

00:42:48 ◼   ► to those set of files when they're dropped in.

00:42:50 ◼   ► You know, like rename them or move them or something.

00:42:52 ◼   ► It's just like a really good way to get files

00:42:54 ◼   ► from somewhere on your Mac to literally anywhere else

00:42:58 ◼   ► without needing to open a bunch of windows

00:42:59 ◼   ► or whatever's going on.

00:43:01 ◼   ► My last one is PopClip.

00:43:04 ◼   ► - Hmm, yes.

00:43:06 ◼   ► PopClip on the face of it does something

00:43:09 ◼   ► which I think is very useful,

00:43:11 ◼   ► which is when you select text,

00:43:13 ◼   ► it gives you the copy paste actions from iOS and iPadOS.

00:43:18 ◼   ► You know, like so you select text

00:43:19 ◼   ► and it pops up over the top.

00:43:21 ◼   ► So you can copy text easily if you're used to that.

00:43:23 ◼   ► I like it because I'm used to that,

00:43:25 ◼   ► but it also has extensions.

00:43:28 ◼   ► So you can do things with the text.

00:43:32 ◼   ► So I have a couple installed that I really like.

00:43:34 ◼   ► One of them is to title case the selected words.

00:43:38 ◼   ► So, and it's also contextually aware.

00:43:42 ◼   ► So it doesn't give me the title case action

00:43:44 ◼   ► unless it's like just text that is able to change.

00:43:47 ◼   ► So I can select the text,

00:43:48 ◼   ► press the title case button that appears,

00:43:50 ◼   ► and it will just change all of that to title case for me.

00:43:54 ◼   ► They have a chat GPT action.

00:43:56 ◼   ► So you can select text, tap the chat GPT button,

00:44:00 ◼   ► and it will just add in the response.

00:44:03 ◼   ► So like they have an example of,

00:44:05 ◼   ► just taking notes,

00:44:07 ◼   ► it says how tall is the Empire State Building?

00:44:09 ◼   ► And they select it and it just pops it in.

00:44:11 ◼   ► And it says, when was it built?

00:44:13 ◼   ► Just pops it in.

00:44:14 ◼   ► It's very smart.

00:44:15 ◼   ► It has like converting markdown to HTML,

00:44:19 ◼   ► copying links cleanly.

00:44:22 ◼   ► Like they have a bunch of extensions for different apps,

00:44:26 ◼   ► like select text, create a fantastic account entry.

00:44:30 ◼   ► There are tons and tons of extensions for this application.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I think it's very smart of just like a way to select text

00:44:37 ◼   ► and have a visual prompt to do something with that text.

00:44:42 ◼   ► So that's like another one that I recommend.

00:44:45 ◼   ► - Very nice, very nice, okay.

00:44:46 ◼   ► - So I'm gonna suggest,

00:44:48 ◼   ► probably is a good way for people to send this stuff in

00:44:52 ◼   ► so everybody can benefit from it,

00:44:54 ◼   ► is to go to connectedfeedback.com.

00:44:57 ◼   ► So if you have app suggestions for Federico

00:45:01 ◼   ► and for the passionate ones,

00:45:03 ◼   ► if you go to connectedfeedback.com,

00:45:05 ◼   ► you get to send it in as follow up or something.

00:45:08 ◼   ► And we will be able to look at those

00:45:10 ◼   ► on future episodes of the show.

00:45:12 ◼   ► And then everyone can benefit from the collective

00:45:15 ◼   ► passionate Mac users. - Wisdom.

00:45:18 ◼   ► - The wisdom of the passionate ones.

00:45:20 ◼   ► - Yes, that's a great idea.

00:45:21 ◼   ► - I saw an article on the Verge today

00:45:25 ◼   ► about the possibility that Google will announce

00:45:30 ◼   ► the folding Pixel phone that they've been working on.

00:45:35 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:45:37 ◼   ► - Next month.

00:45:38 ◼   ► At Google I/O on May 10th.

00:45:42 ◼   ► And these leaks are also suggesting

00:45:45 ◼   ► it will be available in June.

00:45:47 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:45:48 ◼   ► - So this is quoting from the Verge.

00:45:50 ◼   ► You should expect a closed book style 5.8 inch phone

00:45:55 ◼   ► that folds out to a 7.6 inch tablet

00:45:58 ◼   ► powered by Google's Tensor G2 processor

00:46:01 ◼   ► starting at upwards of $1,700,

00:46:05 ◼   ► which is so expensive for a Pixel phone.

00:46:09 ◼   ► So form factor wise, it's like the Galaxy Fold

00:46:13 ◼   ► and like screen, apparently screen on the outside,

00:46:15 ◼   ► folding screen on the inside, but smaller.

00:46:19 ◼   ► Kind of like the outside is more phone shaped.

00:46:22 ◼   ► So it's like smaller and more squat, right?

00:46:24 ◼   ► Like it's a 5.8 inch phone on the outside

00:46:27 ◼   ► where like the folders always kind of struggled

00:46:29 ◼   ► with those dimensions.

00:46:32 ◼   ► A CNBC source claims it will have a 24 hour battery

00:46:36 ◼   ► up to 72 hours in low power mode.

00:46:39 ◼   ► I bet by the way, that like what's not reported

00:46:43 ◼   ► is 24 hour battery if you're only using the external screen.

00:46:47 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:46:49 ◼   ► - That's how I read that because 24 hour battery

00:46:54 ◼   ► is a long battery and I feel like you could do that

00:46:56 ◼   ► because you can have double the battery

00:46:58 ◼   ► if you have double the phone.

00:47:00 ◼   ► - Of course.

00:47:02 ◼   ► - But that's not gonna work if you're using

00:47:03 ◼   ► the 7.6 inch tablet all the time.

00:47:06 ◼   ► That's how I assume this is gonna be, but we'll find out.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Actually, this is really interesting

00:47:12 ◼   ► like that Google are going for it.

00:47:14 ◼   ► Like the next version of Android, Android 14,

00:47:18 ◼   ► which is already in, this is like the weird thing

00:47:20 ◼   ► that Google do compared to what we're used to with Apple.

00:47:23 ◼   ► So Google IO is in May, but the first public beta

00:47:26 ◼   ► is for Android 14 are already available.

00:47:29 ◼   ► - Yes, which is like the opposite of what we're used to.

00:47:32 ◼   ► - Absolute opposite.

00:47:33 ◼   ► But as you would imagine, they hold back things

00:47:36 ◼   ► for Google IO.

00:47:37 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:47:38 ◼   ► - And so I thought this was interesting.

00:47:40 ◼   ► I also thought how funny would it be

00:47:42 ◼   ► if this comes out before the Pixel tablet

00:47:44 ◼   ► that you spoke about last year?

00:47:46 ◼   ► - Well, it seems very likely at this point

00:47:48 ◼   ► because that tablet is nowhere to be seen.

00:47:51 ◼   ► - I wouldn't be surprised if they have both.

00:47:54 ◼   ► It's both, right?

00:47:56 ◼   ► That they're doing these together

00:47:57 ◼   ► because it would be absolutely wild if this beats that out.

00:48:02 ◼   ► - Well, and also it would be the perfect opportunity

00:48:05 ◼   ► to sort of retell a new tablet story for Android, right?

00:48:10 ◼   ► If you have both a dedicated tablet

00:48:13 ◼   ► and a phone that could sort of fold open into a mini tablet,

00:48:18 ◼   ► that's a perfect narrative to say,

00:48:20 ◼   ► and look the kind of tablet experiences

00:48:23 ◼   ► you can now offer on Android 14, right?

00:48:26 ◼   ► Because historically that's been one of the weak points

00:48:29 ◼   ► of Android and sort of the Android ecosystem as a whole.

00:48:32 ◼   ► You know, when you compare Android tablets to,

00:48:35 ◼   ► you know, you may not like the latest version

00:48:37 ◼   ► of multitasking, but you know, iPadOS,

00:48:40 ◼   ► not just the developer adoption of dedicated tablet UIs,

00:48:45 ◼   ► it's much, much stronger on iPadOS than it is on Android.

00:48:49 ◼   ► And so this would be a great opportunity for Google

00:48:52 ◼   ► to reboot their tablet efforts and say,

00:48:55 ◼   ► and we are so committed to this that we have a tablet

00:48:59 ◼   ► and a foldable phone that also uses the same UI

00:49:02 ◼   ► when you open it up.

00:49:04 ◼   ► I think that would make a lot of sense.

00:49:05 ◼   ► - I think you're right.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And that might actually be one of the reasons

00:49:08 ◼   ► why this tablet is taken as long as it's taken,

00:49:11 ◼   ► because they've been working on this for 14.

00:49:13 ◼   ► But that does beg the question for me

00:49:14 ◼   ► of why did they show off at Google I/O last year?

00:49:17 ◼   ► - That I don't know.

00:49:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:49:20 ◼   ► - No one can answer that.

00:49:22 ◼   ► - No. - At least not us.

00:49:23 ◼   ► Maybe they can answer that on material.

00:49:25 ◼   ► Go check out material on Relay FM,

00:49:27 ◼   ► maybe they can answer that question.

00:49:28 ◼   ► But I don't understand why they did it.

00:49:31 ◼   ► 'Cause I'm still remaining intrigued by that tablet, right?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Because it has the base that we were talking about

00:49:36 ◼   ► on the show before, where you can plug it in

00:49:37 ◼   ► and it becomes like a hub, Nest, Max thing,

00:49:41 ◼   ► whatever they call them.

00:49:42 ◼   ► - Which supposedly is also what's gonna happen.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Well, Apple will probably have a similar product

00:49:49 ◼   ► in the future.

00:49:50 ◼   ► It's not clear if it'll be an iPad with a docking station

00:49:54 ◼   ► or just a not in one accessory.

00:49:57 ◼   ► But that sort of experience of a HomePod

00:50:00 ◼   ► with a proper screen, iPad-like screen,

00:50:04 ◼   ► could be in the cards for Apple too.

00:50:06 ◼   ► - I would be surprised if it was just a docking station

00:50:10 ◼   ► for an iPad personally.

00:50:11 ◼   ► I think like, here's another device we can sell you,

00:50:14 ◼   ► seems more likely to me,

00:50:15 ◼   ► then here's a docking station we can sell you.

00:50:18 ◼   ► But we don't know what the next few years hold

00:50:20 ◼   ► when it comes to iPads and Macs and all that kind of stuff.

00:50:23 ◼   ► So who could tell, right?

00:50:24 ◼   ► Maybe you just have one device

00:50:26 ◼   ► and like sometimes it's a Mac

00:50:27 ◼   ► and sometimes it's a HomePod, it seems.

00:50:29 ◼   ► - Imagine that.

00:50:30 ◼   ► Imagine that.

00:50:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:50:32 ◼   ► - Can you imagine?

00:50:33 ◼   ► It's just like, oh, well, I need my iPad to do my work,

00:50:36 ◼   ► but like now my family's listening to the music

00:50:39 ◼   ► on the hub thing, so I guess I'll just have to wait.

00:50:42 ◼   ► - 'Cause, sorry family, but I need my speaker back

00:50:47 ◼   ► because it's also a computer.

00:50:49 ◼   ► - It's work time.

00:50:49 ◼   ► - Are you going to, let me ask you this,

00:50:53 ◼   ► you were going to America in June.

00:50:56 ◼   ► Are we gonna go check out the Pixel phone,

00:51:01 ◼   ► Pixel Fold at a Google, is there even a Google store?

00:51:05 ◼   ► Is there, do they have Google stores?

00:51:07 ◼   ► - Yes, I've been to a Google store in Chicago.

00:51:10 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:51:11 ◼   ► - We probably have one in London, but I don't know.

00:51:14 ◼   ► - You do?

00:51:15 ◼   ► - I don't know, I have no idea.

00:51:17 ◼   ► If we haven't seen it before then, yeah,

00:51:21 ◼   ► I mean, I hope that we would get to see it somewhere

00:51:25 ◼   ► when we're in America, that would be pretty great.

00:51:27 ◼   ► Okay, Google store, London should be nothing, so.

00:51:30 ◼   ► - Okay, so you don't have a Google store.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Are you interested in this phone,

00:51:36 ◼   ► like as a thing you wanna own?

00:51:38 ◼   ► - This is complicated, I mean,

00:51:41 ◼   ► I will probably be as interested in this

00:51:46 ◼   ► as I am every single time Google does one of these things,

00:51:49 ◼   ► which is I'm always interested, right?

00:51:52 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:51:53 ◼   ► - But history has shown me that I will get it

00:51:57 ◼   ► and I will use it for a few weeks

00:51:58 ◼   ► and then I won't use it anymore

00:52:00 ◼   ► until there's something else specific

00:52:01 ◼   ► that I want to use it for, right?

00:52:04 ◼   ► - That has been my experience as well, yes.

00:52:06 ◼   ► - We have all fallen prey to this.

00:52:08 ◼   ► So realistically, I would like to try one,

00:52:13 ◼   ► but I will not buy one, but I will be interested.

00:52:16 ◼   ► The thing that is different to me here from say,

00:52:21 ◼   ► the original Fold and the original Z Flip,

00:52:23 ◼   ► was those were products that I wanted to buy and use

00:52:26 ◼   ► because I wanted to understand

00:52:29 ◼   ► what this kind of form factor meant.

00:52:32 ◼   ► But like Google are not changing the game here,

00:52:36 ◼   ► this is just their version

00:52:38 ◼   ► of what Samsung's already been doing

00:52:40 ◼   ► and I have spent a lot of time using.

00:52:43 ◼   ► So like that kind of curiosity isn't there the same,

00:52:47 ◼   ► it's more just like how would Google do this?

00:52:50 ◼   ► But I don't think that I personally

00:52:54 ◼   ► need to have a ton of experience with that myself,

00:52:57 ◼   ► that I can't just glean from trying it out for 10 minutes

00:53:01 ◼   ► and then watching some videos and listening to some podcasts

00:53:04 ◼   ► about people that will use it every day,

00:53:07 ◼   ► because it's not a new form factor.

00:53:08 ◼   ► If Google came out with something

00:53:10 ◼   ► and it was like a brand new form factor,

00:53:12 ◼   ► yeah, I probably would buy one

00:53:13 ◼   ► if I thought that this was a thing

00:53:16 ◼   ► that was gonna change technology in the future,

00:53:18 ◼   ► which I do still believe that like in 2027 or whatever,

00:53:23 ◼   ► we'll be talking about Apple's foldable device or,

00:53:27 ◼   ► so like that was why I was really intrigued

00:53:29 ◼   ► about the original kind of form factors

00:53:31 ◼   ► from a reputable company.

00:53:33 ◼   ► And so I'm always gonna remain interested there

00:53:36 ◼   ► and I just like in general,

00:53:38 ◼   ► I'm interested in what would a pixel version

00:53:42 ◼   ► of a folding phone be and what would Android be

00:53:45 ◼   ► on the like primary device for this,

00:53:49 ◼   ► that is made for this,

00:53:51 ◼   ► but that's probably where my curiosity will end,

00:53:53 ◼   ► unless they surprise me in some way.

00:53:55 ◼   ► What do you think is kind of saying today,

00:53:57 ◼   ► like a month before they would show up?

00:53:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, I don't know.

00:54:00 ◼   ► I feel the same way and I'm mostly intrigued.

00:54:04 ◼   ► Like what's the pixel sort of vanilla Android version

00:54:08 ◼   ► of this product, right?

00:54:10 ◼   ► Is there anything that Google can do here

00:54:13 ◼   ► to sort of shake up maybe the multitasking story, right?

00:54:16 ◼   ► We've seen Microsoft, we've seen Samsung,

00:54:20 ◼   ► we've seen other smartphone makers,

00:54:22 ◼   ► each offer sort of their own take on,

00:54:25 ◼   ► okay, here's what you can do

00:54:26 ◼   ► when you have a foldable form factor.

00:54:30 ◼   ► What's the Google way to do this?

00:54:35 ◼   ► That's what intrigues me a lot.

00:54:37 ◼   ► Probably not gonna, I don't think I'm gonna,

00:54:41 ◼   ► like you said, I don't think I'm gonna buy this phone

00:54:43 ◼   ► because I've been burned here before.

00:54:46 ◼   ► I don't really like Android.

00:54:49 ◼   ► I understand why a lot of people do.

00:54:52 ◼   ► I like Windows more than I like Android.

00:54:55 ◼   ► If I were to pick an on-Apple operating system,

00:54:58 ◼   ► I would pick Windows over Android any day

00:55:00 ◼   ► in terms of like what's interesting for me.

00:55:03 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:55:05 ◼   ► - But I am also very much fascinated by Google

00:55:10 ◼   ► right now for three reasons.

00:55:16 ◼   ► One of them being what I just mentioned.

00:55:18 ◼   ► What's their take on the tablet UI

00:55:21 ◼   ► and the foldable UI?

00:55:23 ◼   ► The second one is what are their next goals

00:55:27 ◼   ► for computational photography?

00:55:29 ◼   ► How further can they push what a Pixel device can do?

00:55:34 ◼   ► And three, in some ways they feel like in the AI race,

00:55:38 ◼   ► they feel like the underdog right now with Google Board

00:55:41 ◼   ► compared to chat GPT.

00:55:44 ◼   ► And I really wanna see what they do on that front

00:55:47 ◼   ► because in theory, they shouldn't be behind.

00:55:50 ◼   ► And yet it feels like they are.

00:55:53 ◼   ► And so for these three reasons, I'm paying attention,

00:55:56 ◼   ► but at the same time, I'm not gonna buy this product.

00:55:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, my expectation is that Google I/O

00:56:03 ◼   ► will have a couple of hardware announcements

00:56:06 ◼   ► and then otherwise be focused on consumer AI tools, right?

00:56:09 ◼   ► Like if they're doing anything other than that,

00:56:11 ◼   ► they're wasting the time of everybody watching,

00:56:14 ◼   ► in my opinion. - I agree.

00:56:15 ◼   ► - Like for what Google should be doing

00:56:17 ◼   ► at Google I/O this year,

00:56:19 ◼   ► every product that they show

00:56:21 ◼   ► should have some kind of AI integration.

00:56:24 ◼   ► I heard on a podcast recently,

00:56:26 ◼   ► Sundar Pichai was on HardFork,

00:56:30 ◼   ► which is a podcast that I like.

00:56:33 ◼   ► And he said that Bard is using

00:56:37 ◼   ► one of their more kind of rudimentary models

00:56:41 ◼   ► and that they're upgrading it.

00:56:43 ◼   ► They're gonna continue to upgrade it,

00:56:45 ◼   ► which is intriguing.

00:56:47 ◼   ► It seems like they're a bit like,

00:56:49 ◼   ► they're nervous. - They are.

00:56:51 ◼   ► - They've got more to lose than anybody else in this fight.

00:56:54 ◼   ► So I kind of get it.

00:56:57 ◼   ► I do feel like,

00:56:58 ◼   ► I know we were talking about this stuff recently,

00:56:59 ◼   ► but the further we're moving down this path anyway,

00:57:02 ◼   ► I don't think these are for search.

00:57:05 ◼   ► I think we've learned that now.

00:57:06 ◼   ► Like for web searching, like to replace web searching,

00:57:10 ◼   ► I don't think that's what these models are good at.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Like, I think they're good at like content creation

00:57:16 ◼   ► and like information creation and gathering

00:57:19 ◼   ► more than they are like,

00:57:22 ◼   ► "Hey, find me a holiday."

00:57:24 ◼   ► You know? - Yeah.

00:57:25 ◼   ► - But we'll see. - We'll see.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - This episode is brought to you by Electric.

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00:59:31 ◼   ► Mark Gurman is reporting that Apple is developing

00:59:34 ◼   ► a large selection of apps to work in their headset,

00:59:38 ◼   ► as you would hope, right?

00:59:39 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:59:40 ◼   ► - And that a lot of them and some interface elements

00:59:45 ◼   ► may look similar to how they operate on the iPad.

00:59:49 ◼   ► Now, I wanna read you a list of the stuff

00:59:53 ◼   ► that Mark is reporting.

00:59:54 ◼   ► This list was provided by The Verge,

00:59:56 ◼   ► not directly to us, but they wrote it

00:59:57 ◼   ► and they did a good job of summarising it,

00:59:59 ◼   ► so I'm going to quote it.

01:00:01 ◼   ► So, the upcoming headset will receive optimised versions

01:00:06 ◼   ► of system apps like Safari Calendar, Contacts, Files,

01:00:10 ◼   ► Home, Mail, Maps, Messages, Music, News, Notes,

01:00:14 ◼   ► Photos, Reminders, Stocks and Weather.

01:00:17 ◼   ► Basically, all of the apps that Apple seem to consider

01:00:21 ◼   ► make the core set built into an operating system.

01:00:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:00:26 ◼   ► - Right, this is all of it.

01:00:27 ◼   ► I mean, there's other stuff I'm gonna mention in a minute,

01:00:29 ◼   ► but like these are like the, you need this stuff

01:00:33 ◼   ► to be a proper OS in Apple's eyes.

01:00:36 ◼   ► - Okay, stocks, especially stocks.

01:00:39 ◼   ► - Hey, look, we can make jokes about it,

01:00:42 ◼   ► but they put that thing everywhere.

01:00:44 ◼   ► So they, you know, whether me or you agree,

01:00:47 ◼   ► they think it's important, right?

01:00:49 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's like, you know, stocks, yes.

01:00:52 ◼   ► - I don't know why I need my stocks in VR.

01:00:55 ◼   ► I also don't know why I need my stocks on my watch.

01:00:58 ◼   ► - Yeah. - But they're there.

01:01:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean.

01:01:02 ◼   ► Apparently, Apple is at 167.96 right now,

01:01:07 ◼   ► according to what's available on my watch.

01:01:10 ◼   ► - Well, that's useful information to have.

01:01:12 ◼   ► Now, imagine that in VR.

01:01:14 ◼   ► - In VR, I can have my stocks.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I can be in the charts.

01:01:18 ◼   ► - You, hey, yes, you can be.

01:01:20 ◼   ► - I can jump inside, I can be in the chart.

01:01:22 ◼   ► - Jump inside, look around, yes, okay.

01:01:24 ◼   ► - There is a question about how these would be tailored

01:01:27 ◼   ► to this operating system.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Like, so one of the things that Mark says,

01:01:32 ◼   ► versions of FaceTime and Apple TV

01:01:35 ◼   ► with features that will quote,

01:01:37 ◼   ► "look similar to their iPad counterparts."

01:01:40 ◼   ► I'm assuming that this probably

01:01:43 ◼   ► encapsulates all of these apps.

01:01:45 ◼   ► - Okay, so I have questions and thoughts.

01:01:50 ◼   ► And I think we should start

01:01:52 ◼   ► from the very fundamental question here,

01:01:55 ◼   ► which is when you're working with the Apple headset,

01:02:00 ◼   ► which totally are, well, kind of are related,

01:02:05 ◼   ► but are you a believer, Mike, in the Reality Pro name?

01:02:10 ◼   ► - I don't like it.

01:02:13 ◼   ► - Me neither.

01:02:14 ◼   ► - But like.

01:02:17 ◼   ► - It's boring enough that they're probably gonna use it.

01:02:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, oh, you're asking me,

01:02:22 ◼   ► do I think they're gonna call it Apple Reality?

01:02:25 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:02:26 ◼   ► - Probably, I mean, like, I don't like the name,

01:02:30 ◼   ► but I'm being honest, like,

01:02:31 ◼   ► I've spent a lot of time thinking about this as you have,

01:02:34 ◼   ► as we all have, I don't have a better name.

01:02:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, me neither.

01:02:38 ◼   ► - Like, it's not good, but I don't have a better one.

01:02:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, okay, all right, so we're on the same page.

01:02:42 ◼   ► So the fundamental question is, okay,

01:02:46 ◼   ► so we know that you're gonna have traditional,

01:02:50 ◼   ► quote, unquote, traditional experiences, right?

01:02:53 ◼   ► Like you're gonna have a web browser,

01:02:55 ◼   ► you're gonna have a calendar,

01:02:56 ◼   ► you're gonna have your email,

01:02:57 ◼   ► you're gonna have messages, okay.

01:02:59 ◼   ► The fundamental question here is,

01:03:02 ◼   ► from a design perspective,

01:03:03 ◼   ► are these going to be traditional window-based experiences,

01:03:09 ◼   ► or are these going to be 3D interfaces?

01:03:14 ◼   ► - What is that, what is a 3D interface?

01:03:16 ◼   ► - Right, right, okay.

01:03:18 ◼   ► So when we spoke about my experiences with VR headsets,

01:03:22 ◼   ► one of the things we covered is,

01:03:25 ◼   ► and you also spoke about this on Cortex with Gray,

01:03:29 ◼   ► the idea of working in VR

01:03:32 ◼   ► and doing traditional computing in VR.

01:03:35 ◼   ► So when we covered this,

01:03:37 ◼   ► I spoke about my experience with Windows,

01:03:40 ◼   ► which is you can view your computer's screen

01:03:45 ◼   ► and have virtual displays in VR.

01:03:49 ◼   ► But when you're looking at those apps,

01:03:52 ◼   ► those are still 2D projections, right?

01:03:56 ◼   ► You still have a rectangular window, right?

01:04:00 ◼   ► Which is a flat window,

01:04:01 ◼   ► it's a flat surface that you can see in front of you,

01:04:05 ◼   ► maybe it's curved, but bear with me,

01:04:08 ◼   ► it's still a 2D type of information.

01:04:11 ◼   ► You have a box, which is a window

01:04:13 ◼   ► for the application that you're using, right?

01:04:16 ◼   ► You just have multiple of those rectangles,

01:04:19 ◼   ► in front of you, that's how you do computing.

01:04:22 ◼   ► They could do this, right?

01:04:25 ◼   ► They could just say,

01:04:26 ◼   ► well, imagine the iPadOS interface,

01:04:28 ◼   ► imagine stage manager, but in VR,

01:04:31 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about this in a few minutes.

01:04:34 ◼   ► Or they could also do,

01:04:37 ◼   ► well, if you have a VR environment,

01:04:42 ◼   ► imagine if the interface for an app

01:04:49 ◼   ► was like around you.

01:04:52 ◼   ► I guess what I'm referring to is the difference

01:04:54 ◼   ► between looking at an app

01:04:59 ◼   ► versus being inside the app.

01:05:03 ◼   ► And the second one is more weird and difficult.

01:05:07 ◼   ► And it's not something that anybody has done at this point,

01:05:12 ◼   ► and I don't think Apple will do it.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I'm just proposing the idea here.

01:05:19 ◼   ► I don't think Apple will do it.

01:05:21 ◼   ► I think Apple will go for a more traditional approach,

01:05:23 ◼   ► which is the stage manager UI, but in 3D,

01:05:27 ◼   ► which we're gonna talk about shortly.

01:05:29 ◼   ► But just for the sake of our imagination,

01:05:32 ◼   ► imagine if, I don't know,

01:05:34 ◼   ► I'm gonna get weird for a second, but okay.

01:05:37 ◼   ► Imagine if like files, right?

01:05:42 ◼   ► Imagine if your file manager,

01:05:43 ◼   ► you were literally standing in a field of files and folders

01:05:48 ◼   ► all around you.

01:05:50 ◼   ► Or imagine if you were literally standing, I don't know,

01:05:55 ◼   ► on top of a box with all your documents.

01:05:58 ◼   ► Or I don't know, you see,

01:06:02 ◼   ► try to move away from the idea

01:06:04 ◼   ► of a 2D representation of a window, but in VR,

01:06:09 ◼   ► and instead try and think,

01:06:10 ◼   ► what if you actually designed an operating system

01:06:15 ◼   ► from scratch in 3D?

01:06:18 ◼   ► Because the computing that we've seen so far in VR,

01:06:23 ◼   ► my experiments with Windows, for example,

01:06:26 ◼   ► those are literally just your computer screen, but in VR.

01:06:30 ◼   ► It's like you have taken traditional computing

01:06:38 ◼   ► and put it in a virtual television in a VR space.

01:06:43 ◼   ► And that's fine, and that works.

01:06:46 ◼   ► But it could also be,

01:06:48 ◼   ► I think it would be fascinating over the next few years

01:06:52 ◼   ► to actually say, well, what if the OS was designed

01:06:57 ◼   ► as a 360 degree, sort of 3D space to begin with?

01:07:02 ◼   ► That could be cool.

01:07:07 ◼   ► We have some examples of this already.

01:07:09 ◼   ► For example, FaceTime, FaceTime calls

01:07:13 ◼   ► are likely gonna be a virtual space with Memoji and avatars,

01:07:17 ◼   ► and you're gonna have a FaceTime call in a virtual space.

01:07:21 ◼   ► On a phone, like I don't think they will do FaceTime, right?

01:07:26 ◼   ► I don't think they will do FaceTime

01:07:27 ◼   ► in the Apple reality headset,

01:07:29 ◼   ► and that FaceTime is gonna be a window

01:07:33 ◼   ► with the FaceTime call.

01:07:34 ◼   ► - No, that's gonna be like the Horizon Workrooms idea,

01:07:39 ◼   ► the two people in a room together, yeah.

01:07:42 ◼   ► - That's what I'm referring to.

01:07:43 ◼   ► - And I think that the Apple TV app

01:07:45 ◼   ► will have VR content in it myself.

01:07:50 ◼   ► I think that they're gonna do that.

01:07:52 ◼   ► - So my question is, what is an OS

01:07:57 ◼   ► that is designed from scratch for 3D?

01:08:01 ◼   ► And is that what Apple has done?

01:08:03 ◼   ► - I think realistically, what we will get

01:08:06 ◼   ► is a hybrid approach.

01:08:08 ◼   ► I think we will get some types of experiences

01:08:11 ◼   ► that are fully reimagined for 3D.

01:08:14 ◼   ► FaceTime calls, meetings, some games.

01:08:20 ◼   ► I could see Apple getting weird in a good way

01:08:24 ◼   ► with maybe music.

01:08:26 ◼   ► Freeform, I think is an excellent candidate

01:08:28 ◼   ► for a fully 3D rethought.

01:08:32 ◼   ► Like imagine if Freeform,

01:08:34 ◼   ► instead of staring at a window that is a whiteboard,

01:08:37 ◼   ► imagine if you're actually in a room

01:08:39 ◼   ► that is a physical sandbox.

01:08:41 ◼   ► - So say a headset compatible version

01:08:42 ◼   ► of its new Freeform app could let you collaborate

01:08:45 ◼   ► with others in mixed reality.

01:08:46 ◼   ► I think that one will be like,

01:08:50 ◼   ► you are in the Freeform board as such

01:08:52 ◼   ► and like moving things around.

01:08:54 ◼   ► And that's what I, what you were circling around

01:08:57 ◼   ► is where I'm coming from with this.

01:09:00 ◼   ► I think that there, it will be and should be

01:09:02 ◼   ► a mixed approach that like,

01:09:04 ◼   ► all of those apps that I mentioned,

01:09:06 ◼   ► I do not want 3D versions of these apps.

01:09:09 ◼   ► Like I do not need to be inside of my calendar

01:09:13 ◼   ► walking around, right?

01:09:15 ◼   ► Like I'm good to just-- - But you could be.

01:09:17 ◼   ► - I could be but I don't want to be.

01:09:19 ◼   ► You know like, oh, you know you wanna get to tomorrow

01:09:23 ◼   ► where you gotta climb down the days, you know?

01:09:26 ◼   ► Like physically climbing through the squares.

01:09:28 ◼   ► Like there are, there are four VR, four AR,

01:09:33 ◼   ► there will be types of apps and experiences

01:09:38 ◼   ► that will naturally suit to being re-imagined

01:09:42 ◼   ► inside of some kind of 3D.

01:09:44 ◼   ► And I think a lot of collaborative stuff

01:09:49 ◼   ► will be able to maybe lean into that a little bit more.

01:09:53 ◼   ► And anything you're doing with somebody else

01:09:55 ◼   ► like in real time, you could maybe find something fun

01:09:58 ◼   ► to do with that.

01:09:59 ◼   ► - I want shortcuts on the Apple headset

01:10:02 ◼   ► to be a physical Ruby Goldberg machine.

01:10:04 ◼   ► - Oh my God, can you imagine?

01:10:05 ◼   ► - Can you, but seriously, but can you imagine that?

01:10:07 ◼   ► - You have to like pull pieces of string

01:10:09 ◼   ► from one element to another one?

01:10:11 ◼   ► - Seriously, how fun could that be?

01:10:13 ◼   ► - But like, no one really wants to work that way though,

01:10:18 ◼   ► right?

01:10:18 ◼   ► You know what I mean? - Yeah, I know, I know.

01:10:19 ◼   ► - Like these would be fun demos.

01:10:21 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:10:22 ◼   ► - But this is less effective, this is less efficient

01:10:26 ◼   ► where like what you want is to enhance

01:10:28 ◼   ► where these things can make you more efficient.

01:10:31 ◼   ► And a VR call as opposed to a FaceTime call

01:10:36 ◼   ► or an audio call is better in a bunch of ways

01:10:41 ◼   ► which are good and important.

01:10:42 ◼   ► And I think that's what they're gonna focus on.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And so like that's the kind of stuff

01:10:47 ◼   ► that I think would make sense, having this mixed approach.

01:10:50 ◼   ► The same as like the operating system itself,

01:10:53 ◼   ► I actually want the operating system to be pretty light.

01:10:57 ◼   ► Like my ideal is that the operating system is like,

01:11:02 ◼   ► part of it is the room that I'm in, right?

01:11:04 ◼   ► That like, I'm not looking at a square

01:11:09 ◼   ► which has windows in.

01:11:11 ◼   ► I wanna be able to take messages and put it over there,

01:11:14 ◼   ► right, and then when I look, like physically look

01:11:17 ◼   ► to the left, that's where messages is.

01:11:19 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:11:20 ◼   ► - But it's like a window of its own over there,

01:11:21 ◼   ► you know what I mean?

01:11:22 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:11:23 ◼   ► - You know, like we both use these tools

01:11:25 ◼   ► where like you're bringing your apps into the headset

01:11:29 ◼   ► but it's a screen.

01:11:30 ◼   ► Well, I want everything to be broken free of the screens.

01:11:35 ◼   ► - Yes.

01:11:36 ◼   ► - Like I had a conversation about this

01:11:38 ◼   ► probably over a year ago now with Underscore

01:11:41 ◼   ► and we were talking about widgets, right?

01:11:43 ◼   ► And he was like, well, I could imagine that like

01:11:46 ◼   ► you would just have widgets but you would just like

01:11:48 ◼   ► stick them to your physical wall, right?

01:11:50 ◼   ► Like in the space.

01:11:52 ◼   ► So like you pin your weather widget to like over there

01:11:57 ◼   ► on the wall and you just turn and look at that widget

01:12:00 ◼   ► but it's always there.

01:12:02 ◼   ► Like stuff like that I wanna see more of.

01:12:04 ◼   ► That and that is like bringing these 2D apps

01:12:07 ◼   ► into a 3D space rather than trying to create a 3D version

01:12:12 ◼   ► of the home app where you're like flicking a bunch

01:12:15 ◼   ► of physical switches and stuff like that, you know.

01:12:18 ◼   ► - But still, I mean, of course that sort of,

01:12:22 ◼   ► that idea is like the,

01:12:26 ◼   ► it's this Qomorphic equivalent of VR.

01:12:29 ◼   ► - And we're gonna get tons of third party apps

01:12:32 ◼   ► that work like this.

01:12:34 ◼   ► - Well, at the same time, like when I say

01:12:36 ◼   ► what does it mean to design in 3D?

01:12:38 ◼   ► At the same time, we should also keep in mind

01:12:40 ◼   ► that the design story, the software

01:12:45 ◼   ► and the UI design story for the headset will be fascinating

01:12:51 ◼   ► because you don't need to recreate 3D spaces

01:12:55 ◼   ► for 3D design to be interesting and a challenge

01:12:59 ◼   ► for designers and developers.

01:13:01 ◼   ► Because even if you keep the traditional window-based

01:13:05 ◼   ► approach in 3D, you're still gonna have,

01:13:09 ◼   ► you're still gonna have some aspects of design

01:13:16 ◼   ► to account for that you do not have on a regular display

01:13:21 ◼   ► or on a phone, the idea of depth, like a physical depth.

01:13:25 ◼   ► Like what kind of tools is Apple gonna offer designers

01:13:29 ◼   ► and developers to create multiple layers of an interface

01:13:34 ◼   ► in front of you or around you?

01:13:36 ◼   ► Like you don't need to recreate a folder full of files.

01:13:41 ◼   ► You don't need to recreate a physical calendar.

01:13:44 ◼   ► But even if you keep the regular window,

01:13:47 ◼   ► you're still in 3D.

01:13:48 ◼   ► And so what does it mean to, for example,

01:13:50 ◼   ► to highlight something?

01:13:52 ◼   ► What does it mean to select something?

01:13:54 ◼   ► What is the VR equivalent of the focus engine for tvOS?

01:13:59 ◼   ► Like what is the VR equivalent of a parallax effect?

01:14:04 ◼   ► - I mean, I track it baby.

01:14:05 ◼   ► Like I think there will be a focus engine.

01:14:08 ◼   ► - Even without having to recreate fully 3D experiences,

01:14:14 ◼   ► it's still gonna be interesting to see how Apple

01:14:18 ◼   ► is going to adapt their existing designs for 3D.

01:14:23 ◼   ► And if all they do is literally,

01:14:25 ◼   ► oh, it's the iPad version, but now it's,

01:14:27 ◼   ► you can look at it in VR, that's boring, right?

01:14:30 ◼   ► There have to be some 3D specific enhancements.

01:14:34 ◼   ► And I am confident that there will be.

01:14:37 ◼   ► The idea of iPad apps though,

01:14:42 ◼   ► stands out to me for another reason,

01:14:45 ◼   ► which is Gurman reports that the home screen

01:14:47 ◼   ► of the headset will look largely similar

01:14:50 ◼   ► to the current version of iPadOS.

01:14:53 ◼   ► So the next obvious question is,

01:14:55 ◼   ► and this is something that we speculated about months ago,

01:14:58 ◼   ► I believe we actually talked about this last year

01:15:01 ◼   ► when I was complaining about Stage Manager.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Stage Manager in VR, right?

01:15:09 ◼   ► We speculated months ago that everything

01:15:13 ◼   ► about the Stage Manager design looked like it was something

01:15:18 ◼   ► that was being built in preparation for a VR environment.

01:15:24 ◼   ► Just this idea of this window previews on one side

01:15:29 ◼   ► and the main windows sort of swooping in from the side

01:15:32 ◼   ► with a very much 3D based animation and look.

01:15:39 ◼   ► And my idea is that Stage Manager from that perspective

01:15:44 ◼   ► makes a lot of sense as the UI to manage multitasking

01:15:49 ◼   ► in a VR environment.

01:15:52 ◼   ► And in fact, if this theory is correct,

01:15:55 ◼   ► I actually think that I'm gonna like Stage Manager

01:15:58 ◼   ► a lot more in VR than I like it on my iPad,

01:16:02 ◼   ► or than I like it on macOS.

01:16:05 ◼   ► It would explain a lot of the characteristics of Stage Manager

01:16:09 ◼   ► from how Stage Manager wants to help you

01:16:13 ◼   ► with window placement,

01:16:15 ◼   ► how it insists on never fully covering something

01:16:19 ◼   ► that is behind,

01:16:20 ◼   ► how it doesn't give you pixel-based precision

01:16:25 ◼   ► for resizing a window.

01:16:27 ◼   ► Like all of those sort of helping tools

01:16:31 ◼   ► would make a lot of sense for VR.

01:16:33 ◼   ► - I mean, maybe, I wanna have a lot of tactility.

01:16:36 ◼   ► I wanna be able to pick a just grab and throw an app

01:16:38 ◼   ► wherever I want it, right? - Sure.

01:16:41 ◼   ► But you're probably not gonna need the same precision

01:16:44 ◼   ► that you need with a mouse and a cursor.

01:16:46 ◼   ► You're gonna be more sloppy

01:16:49 ◼   ► because that's just how it's gonna work in VR.

01:16:52 ◼   ► It's imprecise, right?

01:16:54 ◼   ► I think Stage Manager will make a lot of sense

01:16:58 ◼   ► in that context.

01:16:59 ◼   ► But let me go one layer deeper here.

01:17:03 ◼   ► What do we think, and by we, I mean I'm asking you.

01:17:11 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:17:13 ◼   ► It's the royal you. - It's left it to a paracle.

01:17:16 ◼   ► - It's the royal you.

01:17:16 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:17:17 ◼   ► - What do we think of,

01:17:20 ◼   ► this maybe sounds a little strange,

01:17:24 ◼   ► iPadOS as nothing but a vehicle

01:17:29 ◼   ► to get to VR eventually?

01:17:31 ◼   ► Like what if iPadOS all along,

01:17:34 ◼   ► it was never meant to be a true replacement for MacOS,

01:17:38 ◼   ► but it was all work that needed to be done

01:17:42 ◼   ► in preparation for the headset?

01:17:43 ◼   ► - No, I think that the horizon was too far on that.

01:17:47 ◼   ► I could imagine that there are things

01:17:50 ◼   ► that they have done since that other idea.

01:17:54 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of people, and we talk about this,

01:17:58 ◼   ► I'm not 100% convinced about this idea

01:18:00 ◼   ► of Stage Manager as the way to do it,

01:18:03 ◼   ► but I could imagine how that could have been the case,

01:18:05 ◼   ► that they created this feature

01:18:07 ◼   ► because it made sense to do it their way,

01:18:10 ◼   ► so then it would stretch across to other things.

01:18:12 ◼   ► But I genuinely do not believe

01:18:16 ◼   ► that even at the time when iPadOS was created,

01:18:19 ◼   ► that Apple were seriously targeting VR.

01:18:24 ◼   ► I think that that has been a much sooner thing.

01:18:27 ◼   ► - I'm trying to bring some theories together,

01:18:31 ◼   ► and I have a slightly different one.

01:18:37 ◼   ► So what if, and I'm wondering here,

01:18:40 ◼   ► so you and Jason spoke about an upgrade,

01:18:43 ◼   ► about like when Jason published his article

01:18:46 ◼   ► about the iPad Pro being a mistake,

01:18:49 ◼   ► and both of you talked about this idea

01:18:54 ◼   ► of maybe up until some point,

01:18:58 ◼   ► Apple was convinced that iPadOS

01:19:01 ◼   ► was gonna replace the Mac eventually,

01:19:03 ◼   ► but then they changed their mind

01:19:05 ◼   ► and realized people love the Mac.

01:19:07 ◼   ► We need to go back to building up the Mac

01:19:11 ◼   ► as the foundation of everything we do on desktop

01:19:15 ◼   ► and keep investing on macOS,

01:19:17 ◼   ► and the Mac is better than ever, right?

01:19:22 ◼   ► - What if that, and I believe Jason or you said,

01:19:27 ◼   ► yeah, we heard from somebody who said,

01:19:29 ◼   ► yeah, that's pretty much what happened.

01:19:31 ◼   ► Well, what if that happened,

01:19:34 ◼   ► but then also Apple, at some point over the past few years,

01:19:39 ◼   ► said, well, what about all this work

01:19:42 ◼   ► that we've done with iPadOS?

01:19:44 ◼   ► Like, what if now we know that we're gonna

01:19:48 ◼   ► put all of our efforts for traditional computing

01:19:51 ◼   ► into macOS, and we know that three, four, five years from now

01:19:55 ◼   ► macOS is also gonna support touch and hybrid machines.

01:20:00 ◼   ► What about all this work that we've done?

01:20:02 ◼   ► Well, why don't we use it for the headset?

01:20:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I could imagine that there has been a point, right,

01:20:10 ◼   ► where they were like, let's use this

01:20:14 ◼   ► and continue developing this with the mind

01:20:18 ◼   ► that we could use it in this other place.

01:20:19 ◼   ► Like, yeah, maybe I misunderstood what you were saying

01:20:23 ◼   ► of like, I thought you were asking all the way back to 2010.

01:20:28 ◼   ► - No, no, no, no, no, I mean,

01:20:30 ◼   ► iPadOS is sort of the modern name of--

01:20:34 ◼   ► - Right, again, I don't even know if it's that far back.

01:20:38 ◼   ► - That's 2019, I wanna say.

01:20:41 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Like when they changed

01:20:43 ◼   ► the name, when I said iPadOS,

01:20:45 ◼   ► I meant when it was renamed to iPadOS.

01:20:47 ◼   ► - I think at some point between the naming of iPadOS

01:20:50 ◼   ► and now that could have happened, yes.

01:20:53 ◼   ► I don't know if it would have been straight away,

01:20:56 ◼   ► 'cause I mean, maybe I'm not casting my mind back correctly,

01:20:59 ◼   ► but I don't even think we were talking about

01:21:01 ◼   ► this kind of stuff then as like a potential, I don't think.

01:21:04 ◼   ► - Not in, probably not in 2019,

01:21:08 ◼   ► but definitely in 2020, I think.

01:21:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, so maybe we were, but potentially, right?

01:21:14 ◼   ► Like, I could see it.

01:21:16 ◼   ► I think if there's one thing we know about Apple

01:21:18 ◼   ► is that they do like to try and find ways

01:21:20 ◼   ► to tie things together and to use elements

01:21:23 ◼   ► in one place and somewhere else, like all of iPadOS, right?

01:21:26 ◼   ► Like is ultimately work started on iPhone

01:21:31 ◼   ► and then they brought it over.

01:21:32 ◼   ► And then similarly, you look at Catalyst and SwiftUI, right?

01:21:37 ◼   ► And like now we're using this stuff

01:21:39 ◼   ► to then build apps and experiences on every device.

01:21:43 ◼   ► So like I could imagine that there was a point

01:21:44 ◼   ► where they were like, you know what?

01:21:46 ◼   ► We've done all this work and this is clearly not the thing,

01:21:51 ◼   ► but we could kind of kill two birds of one stone here

01:21:55 ◼   ► and develop some features that will work here

01:21:57 ◼   ► and will work there because let's be realistic, right?

01:22:01 ◼   ► If Apple creates a new OS today,

01:22:03 ◼   ► it's going to look more like iPadOS than macOS, right?

01:22:08 ◼   ► Like just like how apps look and how apps work,

01:22:13 ◼   ► surely is closer to iPadOS than macOS,

01:22:16 ◼   ► which they're not that far apart from each other these days,

01:22:19 ◼   ► but they are in some key ways.

01:22:20 ◼   ► And I could just imagine that that's just going to be

01:22:22 ◼   ► the natural thing.

01:22:23 ◼   ► So like that would be the target,

01:22:24 ◼   ► the platform I can imagine them adapting from.

01:22:27 ◼   ► Going back to this list, right?

01:22:32 ◼   ► Apple is apparently testing a camera app,

01:22:34 ◼   ► which would let you take pictures

01:22:35 ◼   ► using the many cameras on the device, which makes sense.

01:22:39 ◼   ► You'd be able to read books in VR.

01:22:41 ◼   ► I don't know what that means.

01:22:42 ◼   ► - Books in VR, the words are around you.

01:22:45 ◼   ► - Is there like a physical book

01:22:47 ◼   ► and you're turning the pages?

01:22:49 ◼   ► Like what is that?

01:22:50 ◼   ► - You have a giant physical book in front of you

01:22:52 ◼   ► and you physically kick the page.

01:22:56 ◼   ► - I mean, I don't know, man.

01:22:57 ◼   ► - Maybe the weird books menu makes sense in VR.

01:23:01 ◼   ► - In VR.

01:23:02 ◼   ► Meditate with an app.

01:23:04 ◼   ► Now this is one where I could imagine

01:23:06 ◼   ► Apple have made a full on experience for.

01:23:09 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

01:23:11 ◼   ► See, yes, I agree.

01:23:12 ◼   ► Yes.

01:23:13 ◼   ► - Like there's no point making a meditation,

01:23:16 ◼   ► not no point, but like I can't imagine them

01:23:17 ◼   ► making a meditation app where it's just like,

01:23:19 ◼   ► you got a little clock

01:23:20 ◼   ► and you just look at the clock, right?

01:23:22 ◼   ► Like you're gonna be transported to a stream somewhere

01:23:25 ◼   ► or something and that'll be sweet.

01:23:27 ◼   ► We already mentioned Freeform,

01:23:29 ◼   ► but Freeform is the only productivity app.

01:23:31 ◼   ► The headset will also apparently support pages, numbers,

01:23:34 ◼   ► keynote, iMovie and GarageBand.

01:23:37 ◼   ► - Now GarageBand, now this--

01:23:39 ◼   ► - I don't know, like maybe we'll play Rockband or something?

01:23:42 ◼   ► Like, I don't know.

01:23:44 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, surely the timeline editor

01:23:49 ◼   ► will probably need to be like a traditional

01:23:51 ◼   ► 2D editor design, but the instruments,

01:23:55 ◼   ► I mean, that could be fun, you know,

01:23:59 ◼   ► to put in the drop. - If they do it that way.

01:24:00 ◼   ► - If they do it that way, yeah.

01:24:02 ◼   ► - 'Cause pages, numbers, keynote,

01:24:04 ◼   ► I could imagine those being similar to Freeform

01:24:07 ◼   ► and like you actually collaborate on them together using,

01:24:11 ◼   ► and like you're in a space together working on the thing.

01:24:14 ◼   ► So like it still looks like an app,

01:24:16 ◼   ► but like maybe you bring these

01:24:18 ◼   ► into your collaborative VR calls

01:24:21 ◼   ► and you can work on these things together, maybe.

01:24:24 ◼   ► Apple apparently wants to make watching sports

01:24:27 ◼   ► a richer experience.

01:24:29 ◼   ► They bought a company many years ago called NextVR

01:24:33 ◼   ► and this company, I don't know if they still do it,

01:24:35 ◼   ► but like at the time they were using VR cameras

01:24:39 ◼   ► to record sporting events and concerts and stuff.

01:24:43 ◼   ► And so like, it seemed like Apple wanted this company

01:24:46 ◼   ► for a bunch of technology that developed

01:24:48 ◼   ► and for the ability to like go and record Coachella

01:24:53 ◼   ► and you could watch it on your Apple reality pro in VR.

01:24:57 ◼   ► Apparently as well, says Mark Gurman,

01:25:01 ◼   ► gaming will be a central piece of the device's appeal.

01:25:06 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:25:07 ◼   ► - No, I don't know how yet.

01:25:09 ◼   ► - It doesn't have controllers?

01:25:11 ◼   ► - No. - Okay.

01:25:12 ◼   ► - And you know, like we spoken about this ad nauseum

01:25:16 ◼   ► on the show, like, you know, there are experiences

01:25:19 ◼   ► you can make with our controllers

01:25:20 ◼   ► and maybe their hand tracking is that good

01:25:22 ◼   ► that it can make some interesting stuff.

01:25:24 ◼   ► But if you wanna be immersed in a game

01:25:27 ◼   ► and you're supposed to be holding,

01:25:30 ◼   ► I should say a gun, right?

01:25:31 ◼   ► 'Cause there's so many first person shooters,

01:25:34 ◼   ► being able to hold a physical controller is important.

01:25:36 ◼   ► And so like, but any type of game,

01:25:41 ◼   ► if you're doing a Wii sports like game, right?

01:25:44 ◼   ► Like if you wanna be holding a baseball bat,

01:25:48 ◼   ► you wanna at least have something in your hand,

01:25:50 ◼   ► like, I don't know.

01:25:51 ◼   ► We'll have to wait and see on that.

01:25:53 ◼   ► Like I remain unconvinced that all gaming

01:25:56 ◼   ► can be done with just hand tracking

01:25:59 ◼   ► and we can hope that there will be

01:26:01 ◼   ► some kind of controller story.

01:26:03 ◼   ► - Maybe you can play a first person shooter

01:26:05 ◼   ► doing finger guns, you know.

01:26:07 ◼   ► - Pew, pew, pew.

01:26:08 ◼   ► - Maybe you can do that. - Pew, pew, pew, pew.

01:26:10 ◼   ► You have to make that noise every time.

01:26:12 ◼   ► Can you imagine?

01:26:15 ◼   ► - I'm just trying to imagine. - You know someone's

01:26:16 ◼   ► gonna do it, right?

01:26:17 ◼   ► - I'm trying to imagine Call of Duty played like that.

01:26:20 ◼   ► (imitates gun firing)

01:26:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, someone's gonna do that.

01:26:24 ◼   ► Someone's gonna make that video game.

01:26:26 ◼   ► But that shouldn't be the video game experience, you know?

01:26:29 ◼   ► Like I want it to be a little bit more,

01:26:31 ◼   ► I don't know, well thought out than that.

01:26:34 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, right?

01:26:37 ◼   ► Like maybe someone, maybe they're gonna,

01:26:38 ◼   ► maybe it's all gonna be figured out

01:26:40 ◼   ► and I'm just not seeing it yet.

01:26:43 ◼   ► But at the same time, I have also said,

01:26:45 ◼   ► like and I continue to say that like,

01:26:48 ◼   ► most VR games to me feel like experiences rather than games.

01:26:53 ◼   ► So like maybe by and large,

01:26:56 ◼   ► the like idea of what is a good VR game

01:26:59 ◼   ► has not been cracked yet

01:27:00 ◼   ► and maybe controllers are what's getting in the way, right?

01:27:03 ◼   ► - Maybe, maybe, maybe.

01:27:05 ◼   ► I'm intrigued, the last thing I wanted to say,

01:27:09 ◼   ► I'm intrigued by this idea that Marc reported

01:27:12 ◼   ► of the spatial awareness of this device.

01:27:16 ◼   ► So the idea that like you can leave a Safari window open

01:27:20 ◼   ► in the kitchen and place say Apple Music

01:27:24 ◼   ► by the couch in the living room.

01:27:27 ◼   ► This idea of like different position,

01:27:30 ◼   ► different placements for apps.

01:27:34 ◼   ► I am super intrigued by this.

01:27:35 ◼   ► And if you think about it,

01:27:38 ◼   ► like it makes a lot of sense to tie specific apps

01:27:43 ◼   ► and experiences to different places in the home.

01:27:46 ◼   ► It also makes a lot of sense if this is possible

01:27:49 ◼   ► in the context of HomeKit.

01:27:52 ◼   ► Imagine if you're wearing the headset

01:27:54 ◼   ► and you look at where a light switch would be

01:27:57 ◼   ► or where a light in the ceiling would be.

01:28:01 ◼   ► And if you could say turn that off just by looking at it,

01:28:05 ◼   ► because maybe somehow it's aware