442: They Want Azimuth
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(upbeat music)
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Hello and welcome to Connected episode 442.
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It's made possible this week by our sponsors,
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Fitbaud, Electric, Zocdoc and Setapp.
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My name is Stephen Hackett
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and I have the pleasure of being joined by Mr. Mike Hurley.
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Hello, how are you?
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Very good, thank you, how are you?
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We were also joined by Mr. Federico Vittucci.
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Hi. Hello. How are you?
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Good. We're all here. We've got a bunch of stuff to do today. I'm excited.
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I think I did this once before. It's like, it's not actually a quiz,
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but we're like technically like tiptoeing into the quizzes here because I have
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quizzes follow up. This isn't actually a quiz.
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I have an important piece of quizzes news for you. Very important.
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I was contacted by relay FM historian Kate to let me know I made an error in the scoring
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of the last episode.
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Stop the count.
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Well that was the problem as I stopped the count too soon.
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So I'm dealing with a lot of numbers right and I go into a spreadsheet.
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And the question, I think it's question number seven, what is Federico's preferred
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Federico's got the 10, 20 and 40 point answers, but in my spreadsheet I wrote 10, 20, 20.
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So Federico not actually won the entire game and is 20 points higher than I said he was.
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So this is good news for me.
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This is great news for you.
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Ah, I love this piece of follow up.
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So I made a slight error.
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Thank you, Kate.
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You got my back.
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I appreciate it.
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Kate couldn't have been nicer in the way that they presented this information to me, which
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which I really appreciate.
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- Looking out for justice.
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I love this.
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Thank you. - I was surprised
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that only Kate wrote in about this,
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but there were apparently a couple of people that noticed
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and they were discussing it in the background,
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but only one person contacted me.
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- Only person who cares about the truth.
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- Yes. - And you know,
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what is right in this program.
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- So the actual score for the
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Do The Passionate Ones Know You round two was Stephen scored 580 points and Federico
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scored 590 points.
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And so now the overall total scores for this year is Stephen at 1020 and Federico at 1120.
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I'm the champion.
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That's the end of my follow up.
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Thank you to Kate and everybody else that worked together to try and correct me.
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I'm glad it's been corrected because when I mount my comeback and win this year, I don't
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want to be tainted by your poor arithmetic.
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No collusion.
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No collusion.
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So somebody was writing "bananaphone" in a lot, which was really annoying, and I mentioned
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how annoying I found it.
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Brett wrote in to say, "The bananaphone reference.
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I did not give that answer for the quizzies, but it's a very important reference to a classic
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children's song from Wikipedia.
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Banana Phone is a children's album released by Raffi and Michael Kreber in 1994.
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The album is best known for its title track, which uses puns such as "It's a phone with
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appeal" like "appeal" and non-words like "bananula" and "interactavodula" as Raffi extols the
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virtues of his unique telephone.
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This is absolutely, 100%, not at all helpful in any way, or relevant, or anything.
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I have no idea what any of this is.
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Yeah, it's completely irrelevant.
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It doesn't matter that somebody said this.
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There is absolutely zero reason to write banana phone like seven times into the survey.
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Yeah, what even?
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Who are Rafi and Michael?
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They're the people who voted in the poll, clearly.
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That is the only way I would find this acceptable.
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Is if the person who created the song filled out the quiz.
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Like, I don't care that you like the song or that you think it's funny.
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Like, just stop it. You know what I mean?
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That's all I gotta say. Well, never stop what I lost.
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This is an American thing, right? I bet this is an American thing.
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I never heard of it. I even looked it up on YouTube and it didn't, like,
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ring any, like, bells deep in my memory.
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I wanna bet. Because Americans, they have a tendency to believe that all of their cultural
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references are shared worldwide.
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Oh, Canadian.
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Oh, that's why no one knows about it.
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Those Canadians!
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We're gonna start a war with Canada.
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They ain't gonna fly back.
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They'll just apologize.
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What's the deal with Canadians?
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Look at Michael.
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Michael seems to be having a good time in these photos.
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Apple Music Classical.
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Boys, we're just a few days away from its launch on the iPhone.
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Are you excited?
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I even forgot about it.
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Yeah, brutal.
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Adrian wrote in, 'cause we were talking about
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how it's on the iPhone, it's not on the iPad and Mac,
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it will be coming to Android, quote, coming soon,
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is I think is what Apple has said.
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And Adrian wrote in to remind us of that
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and kind of wondering why it would be on Android
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but not the Mac and iPad.
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Any thoughts?
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I think that's, I think they have a point.
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I think that this idea of, from Adrian's feedback, so this idea that more, there are
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more subscribers who don't have an iPhone, that there are iPad or Mac users who don't
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have an iPhone, like, you know, actually, I think this explanation makes a lot more
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sense than mine.
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about the because that that one I think I said it on the episode is like that makes sense but didn't feel
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Necessarily like the reason to do it because there is some Android based
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Like DAX or whatever
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And I still say like sure
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This is Apple though. Sure, but yeah, it's still not a good look for the it's not good enough
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in my experience, and I think it'd be fine if there was no Mac app, it's the iPad app,
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which is I think the most egregious. It's right there! Yeah, it's the same operating system
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essentially, right? Like, all good apps should be made with the way that they should be able to be
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scaled to the iPad, so especially if this is, as you would assume, built on the architecture of the
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music app, which already does this, you know?
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- And we should say like Apple Music is on Android
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because Beats Music was an Android.
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And I think Apple wants their music service
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to be as big as possible, right?
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I mean, clearly there's some strategy there
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beyond just like the historic reasons,
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but it's definitely not a good look
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for Apple's other products.
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- iOS 16.4 release candidate is out,
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which means the thing is probably launching next Tuesday
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or Wednesday, I wanna say probably Tuesday.
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So it's pretty much done.
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We have the full release notes.
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A couple of things that I saved
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that I wanted to point out to you guys.
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I copied the release notes on my iPhone.
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So we confirmed 21 new emoji,
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notifications for web apps, we talked about this.
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Something new that wasn't mentioned before,
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the voice isolation audio effect.
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You know, the thing that used to be like FaceTime and voice over IP apps only, that sort of
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isolates your voice, cuts out, you know, background sounds and noise.
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It's also coming to cellular phone calls, which is pretty nice because I mean, there
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are many times where for example, I call my mom, right?
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And just a straight up regular phone call.
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And to have that audio effect sounds pretty cool.
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Like if I'm at the mall, for example, and my mom calls me, I can just turn on voice
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isolation and she's going to hear me better.
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It's pretty nice, I think.
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Very nice addition.
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I think it makes sense.
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And on iPadOS, there's the thing that I think is new in the release notes, like they didn't
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previously disclose this addition.
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If you guys can help me make sense of this, please.
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Apple Pencil Hover adds tilt and azimuth support.
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you can preview your mark at any angle before you make it in notes and supported apps.
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Can you spell that word for me?
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Azimuth. A-Z-I-M-U-T-H.
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No, tilt. Have you spelled tilt? The direction of a celestial object from the observer expressed
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as the angular distance from the north or south point of the horizon to the point at
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which a vertical circle passing through the object intersects the horizon.
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me if I'm wrong Azimuth should be the opposite of Zenith I think? Anybody here?
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How could I possibly correct you? You know what I mean?
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You never heard about this? Zenith and Azimuth? But I never, basically I can never recall
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which is which.
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I'm currently looking at a diagram on Google which has celestial meridian, zenith, observer,
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horizon, star, altitude, azimuth.
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So zenith is a thing? Oh no they're not, zenith and nadir. Oh thank you Jason and thank
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you with it. They're not the opposite. What is happening right now? I don't understand
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70% of the words people are saying. Alright, alright, so I know this, I know this because
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when I was little, I gotta tell you, when I was little I was an incredible nerd when
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it came to, you know, you know the machina, you know the machina of Santa Rosa, Inviterbo,
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the big celebration in my hometown. So, and there used to be these like technical sketches
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of each model of the machina.
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And I remember when I was like seven or eight,
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I was looking at these technical drawings of each model
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and there used to be like this word, like zenith point.
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And I remember asking my mom, what's a zenith point?
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And I believe that the zenith point of the machina
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used to be like the machina as seen from above.
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- That's what the diagram looks like.
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- Imagine if you stand on a tall tower
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and at the exact perpendicular center of it
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and you look down, that should be the zenith point.
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So what is the azimuth point anyway?
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- It looks like if you were to hold,
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like if you were to tilt something
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and move it kind of like left and right,
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based on this article.
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- Or on this diagram, I should say.
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- So zenith and nadir.
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Well, thank you, Jason.
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Those are really good words.
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- I don't know why we can't just get along with tilt.
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Like I feel like tilt would be perfectly acceptable,
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but maybe to people that really care,
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they want Azimuth written in there.
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But that's good news, I suppose.
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- I mean, you're supposed to know these fancy words,
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- Well, it's good culture.
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It's good education to know them.
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- Yeah, I have not a lot of education
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and I've done fine.
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You know what I mean?
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- It's okay, man.
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Cool, so anyway, 16.4.
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- Education.
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Small topic took us places we did not expect. Yeah
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Stephen what you got for us?
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Well, there is one more feature in the release candidate that I want to point out is that oh, yes
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It includes duplicate detection emerging in a shared photo library
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Now that has been I mean less. I'm just like misunderstanding that's been on the Mac like it's on the Mac right now
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I'm looking at it. I open photos in preparation for this like oh I can see duplicates and I can see them in
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in like across personal and shared library.
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But anyways, I don't know if it's new to the Mac as well
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or they're changing something about it,
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but it is on iOS now, which is great.
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It's a pretty sweet feature.
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I have not really had much trouble with it.
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I mean, my photo library, I guess we've talked about,
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is like a real disaster right now
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with having combined my wife and I's,
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and there's a lot of overlap and stuff.
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So I probably will just let the duplication thing
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figure out what it wants to do
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and then go about my tagging.
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And I got a bunch of photos without dates
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and locations and stuff to fix, but so far so good.
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- By the way, the zenith point of the machina
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is if you stand below it and you look up, I think.
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- Oh, okay. - And then the deer point.
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Which I did when I was little.
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My parents took me, I was like 10.
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to see it inside before the event.
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- That must have been amazing.
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- Yeah, it was incredible.
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Like it's super scary, but like you stand inside it
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and under it basically, and you look up
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and you see this whole structure inside,
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like electrical wires, like these, you know,
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steel reinforced steel cables, it's wild.
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So when you look up is the Zenith point.
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And if you were to stand on top of it all and look down,
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that would be the Nadir point of it.
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- I love watching that live stream
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when they're carrying it through town and it's amazing.
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- They're changing it, I think next year,
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because of like the model is supposed to refresh
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every seven years, but then because of COVID,
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the local administration wisely chose
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to spend the money elsewhere during the pandemic.
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And so they're like, we are gonna spend a bunch of money
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on a new model in 2024.
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So, you know, the Machina and the iPad Pro going
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hand in hand with new models in 2024.
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- Oh, let Machina come in in 2024.
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- It's gonna cost twice as much for no real reason.
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- It's gonna look the same.
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- Still can't run two apps at a time very well.
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I just wanna just to shout something out on the show.
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I've had, over the last few months, people have asked me,
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like, oh, can I get the wallpapers or the counter dates
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from the Kickstarters, 'cause I run those,
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where you can buy them separately
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or during a Kickstarter or afterwards.
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But I was like, oh, I should just have them up year round.
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And so there's a link in the show notes
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if you want those wallpapers or ICS versions
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of the calendars that you can subscribe to
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in iCloud or Google or wherever you are.
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They're all available now year round.
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Do that together this week,
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and I think people are enjoying it, which is cool.
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I'm an e-merchant now.
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Well, congratulations.
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Coming after Jeff Bezos.
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I even have a book on here.
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I've got my old iMac and OS X book on here as a PDF now.
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Why don't you put the genius book on there?
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We don't talk about that project.
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That just popped into my head, man.
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That was a good book.
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That caused a lot of trouble.
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What was it called?
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Genius name.
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- Listener, listener, listen to me.
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Do not look for this book.
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You're not gonna find it.
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It wasn't very good.
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- I just found it on Mac stories.
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Yeah, there you go.
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There it is right there.
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- This episode of Connected is brought to you by Fitbod.
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Getting fitter is one of those things
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like having more energy and sleeping better.
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and your training ability.
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and any equipment you have.
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And it's all in an app that makes it incredibly easy
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I don't want to like see a video of John Voorhees,
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you know, deadlifting something
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and try to replicate what he's doing.
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I need something that's gonna work for me.
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So it takes all of that data
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and creates workouts just for you.
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My favorite part about the app is the 1400 video tutorials
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it. So if you're unfamiliar with an exercise you can see a professional
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doing it correctly and safely. And Fitbod integrates with a whole bunch of stuff.
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00:17:48
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Our thanks to Fitbod for their support of the show and Relay FM.
00:17:53
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Wade wrote in and asks, "Follow up to the roast of your Apple Watches from episode 437.
00:18:00
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Do any of you use alternate Apple Watch faces for different activities?"
00:18:04
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I don't know if this counts as a valid answer to the question.
00:18:12
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I have three watch faces that I use.
00:18:16
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I have a work one, a personal one, and a sleep one.
00:18:19
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Every once in a while, usually when it's like New Year's Eve
00:18:22
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or when there's a birthday party
00:18:24
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and we are counting down at midnight,
00:18:27
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I put on an analog watch face, which I usually never use,
00:18:32
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because you know my stance on analog watch faces,
00:18:36
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but it's a very effective way to do it,
00:18:39
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10, nine, eight, you know, the whole countdown thing.
00:18:43
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So when that occasion occurs, I install the watch face beforehand, I use it, and then
00:18:52
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when, you know, after the celebration is done, I just delete the watch face.
00:18:56
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You delete it?
00:18:57
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Yeah, you can just swipe it up and, you know, just get it out of the way.
00:19:00
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I don't need to see it.
00:19:01
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I don't need to see the clock hands, you know, it's not, you know, the medieval age.
00:19:07
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When you have embargos, what do you use to count like the seconds?
00:19:10
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Oh, I just look at the minute, and when the minute is up, I just wait.
00:19:14
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You just like got your finger just hovering over the publish button, you just wait for
00:19:18
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an hour to change?
00:19:20
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You can't trust WordPress scheduling in an embargo situation.
00:19:22
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No, you don't want to schedule an embargo.
00:19:24
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No, no, but I'm saying you could be waiting up to 59 seconds with your finger just hovering
00:19:28
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Yeah, well, that's the beauty of it, right?
00:19:29
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I have my whole routine before big embargoes.
00:19:33
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I like to listen to Live Forever by Oasis.
00:19:37
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In case anything bad happens.
00:19:38
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So specific.
00:19:39
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Like, I literally do this.
00:19:40
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And also before publishing my big iOS reviews,
00:19:43
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I always listen to Live Forever by Oasis.
00:19:46
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It's like my good luck thing,
00:19:48
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but also like, you know, it's inspirational.
00:19:50
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Like in case anything bad happens, I just, you know,
00:19:52
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live forever.
00:19:53
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I'm gonna live forever.
00:19:54
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- Wait, wait, wait.
00:19:56
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- Can you tie those two things together for me?
00:19:58
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Why, if anything bad happens, does Live Forever help you?
00:20:02
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- Like, because I like to be in the mindset
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that even if I somehow destroy my website,
00:20:08
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I'm gonna live forever in other people's memories.
00:20:11
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- Okay, so you're gonna live forever anyway.
00:20:12
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That makes sense. - Yes.
00:20:15
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►
- Now I wanna ask Steven both of these questions.
00:20:20
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Do you have any Apple Watch faces
00:20:21
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and what do you do when you publish things on an embargo?
00:20:26
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- I don't have an embargo very often, which is nice.
00:20:29
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But my main watch face as discussed is modular,
00:20:33
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but I also have modular compact,
00:20:37
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which is basically the same except I ditch the calendar
00:20:40
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and use like a full, like the full size Carrotweather one.
00:20:44
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That's normally my weekend face,
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'cause I get the time, activity rings, and the weather.
00:20:48
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I also have a modular face for workouts
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that has a stopwatch,
00:20:54
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and then the complications are overcast,
00:20:57
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fit bod, and Carrotweather, and activity rings.
00:21:01
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And then my like, I don't really wanna see anything,
00:21:04
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I just wanna kinda wear a watch,
00:21:06
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and it'd be as simple as possible.
00:21:08
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I love Solar Graph, which is an old watch face,
00:21:12
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but I'm a big fan of it.
00:21:13
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And that's my like, maybe it's,
00:21:16
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you know, maybe we're out to dinner or something
00:21:18
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and I've worn the Apple Watch,
00:21:19
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but I don't really want anything except the date and time.
00:21:21
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Then I use that one.
00:21:23
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- I feel like you two were sandbagging me
00:21:25
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when we did the watch roast.
00:21:27
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And in fact, we'll use like four watch faces each.
00:21:30
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- But I would say 90% of the time,
00:21:33
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I'm on the one we talked about.
00:21:35
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I don't have a separate sleep one because I use the sleep modes.
00:21:38
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My watch just goes, you know, in the sleep mode where there's no face.
00:21:42
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So I would say at least 90% of the time I'm on that main one.
00:21:48
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Okay, I use just one.
00:21:50
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I have like four on the thing, but they're just the watch faces I was using previously.
00:21:55
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You know, like pretty much every time, well whenever Apple brings out a new watch face
00:21:59
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that I like, I just switch to that one.
00:22:01
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But then like the ones from previous years are still there.
00:22:04
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So like I use, what is it, Metropolitan now.
00:22:08
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Before that I was using California.
00:22:13
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Before that was World Time.
00:22:14
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Before that was GMT.
00:22:15
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So they would just kind of live there like a little family tree kind of thing.
00:22:19
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Yeah, it's like a time machine backup of watch faces.
00:22:22
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You know what?
00:22:23
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It actually is kind of like that.
00:22:25
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That's actually a side note question.
00:22:28
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How and if and what?
00:22:33
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which device how and if and upon how if upon you know time machine what I want to
00:22:56
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►
know is yeah present present tense come on go on you can do okay so let me go
00:23:04
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►
back I feel like I gotta start over again so time machine machine
00:23:11
◼
►
some my MacBook Air right as I'm like saying this I'm now realizing this
00:23:24
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►
probably the easier way to do this but my MacBook Air, I plug it into my studio
00:23:29
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►
display every day right and I only plug it straight into the studio
00:23:33
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►
display because in the studio display just has like a couple of dongles used
00:23:37
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►
to fill out the other USB C ports. I don't use a dock for that one because it's
00:23:40
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►
simple. But I came to the realization that I'm, because of that, not
00:23:44
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backing up that machine, time machine. Oh that's what-evs man, whatever.
00:23:50
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►
everything's in Dropbox and everything's being backed up to Backblaze. It's totally fine.
00:23:55
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But what I wanted to just see, is there still a way to do Time Machine over the network?
00:24:01
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Yes, there is.
00:24:02
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How do you... and see, now this is why I was like, how and upon, right? Like,
00:24:07
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how do you do it and upon which device do you do it? Like, how do you do that? I don't even
00:24:12
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►
understand how it works.
00:24:13
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►
How and upon if.
00:24:14
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►
I am going to put a link in the Google doc that you can go read later about it.
00:24:20
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►
because it's complicated to talk about,
00:24:22
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►
but basically you set it up on a Mac
00:24:25
◼
►
and it's in the sharing system settings pane.
00:24:29
◼
►
I use this--
00:24:30
◼
►
But what is it back up to though?
00:24:31
◼
►
Yeah, yeah, so I use this at home,
00:24:35
◼
►
not for my machine, but for my wife's machine
00:24:37
◼
►
and the couple of laptops the kids use
00:24:39
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►
for like school homework and stuff.
00:24:41
◼
►
And I just have like a,
00:24:42
◼
►
maybe it's like a six terabyte spinning hard drive
00:24:45
◼
►
hanging off the Mac mini that's under my TV.
00:24:48
◼
►
That's kind of like the media center computer.
00:24:50
◼
►
And those laptops all just back up over the network
00:24:54
◼
►
to that six terabyte drive.
00:24:55
◼
►
And so you set it up on the host computer, if you will,
00:25:00
◼
►
and then you go to the remote computer and tell it,
00:25:03
◼
►
oh, back up over here.
00:25:04
◼
►
It's really pretty straightforward.
00:25:06
◼
►
It used to require like Mac OS X server back in the day,
00:25:08
◼
►
but now it's just built into regular Mac OS.
00:25:12
◼
►
- Okay, so I would need to put another drive
00:25:16
◼
►
on say my MacBook Pro,
00:25:18
◼
►
which is always docked and just sleeping.
00:25:21
◼
►
To make this work.
00:25:22
◼
►
All right. That is a feasible thing to do.
00:25:26
◼
►
And in my experience, I've had it running for years
00:25:29
◼
►
and it's been really solid.
00:25:30
◼
►
Like I don't really ever get failures on it
00:25:34
◼
►
where like a computer just stops backing up.
00:25:36
◼
►
It's been really, really great.
00:25:38
◼
►
Now, because it's over the network,
00:25:40
◼
►
leave the computer there over the weekend
00:25:41
◼
►
for the first backup.
00:25:42
◼
►
Like the first one's going to take a while.
00:25:45
◼
►
But then after that, like, you know, I mean,
00:25:46
◼
►
it's pretty quick 'cause it's just over the local network.
00:25:49
◼
►
It's totally manageable and really easy to do now.
00:25:52
◼
►
Okay, I'll take a look into this.
00:26:01
◼
►
Cubes are out.
00:26:02
◼
►
Triangles are in.
00:26:04
◼
►
No, give people the goods.
00:26:07
◼
►
Read what you wrote in our document.
00:26:11
◼
►
Tiny topic two.
00:26:12
◼
►
Tired cubes.
00:26:13
◼
►
Wired triangles.
00:26:18
◼
►
I will say, when I first read that, I was very confused.
00:26:21
◼
►
I read it as tired cubes, wired triangles.
00:26:23
◼
►
I was like, what the hell's going on?
00:26:25
◼
►
Like if you just read it, like in that format,
00:26:28
◼
►
tired cubes, wired triangles.
00:26:31
◼
►
That's very confusing.
00:26:35
◼
►
- Yeah, so this is a new multi charger from Anker.
00:26:40
◼
►
So it's 15 watt max safe charging.
00:26:45
◼
►
And it's like a little triangle.
00:26:47
◼
►
your phone goes on the front of it,
00:26:48
◼
►
and then the Apple Watch arm kind of just
00:26:52
◼
►
sticks out the side.
00:26:53
◼
►
And I'm really just joking.
00:26:55
◼
►
And then there's the charger on the underneath?
00:26:58
◼
►
On the zenith of it, or something.
00:27:03
◼
►
Is that the zenith?
00:27:04
◼
►
I don't know, I blacked out in that section.
00:27:06
◼
►
It's on the nadir, because you would be up
00:27:08
◼
►
and looking down on it to see it.
00:27:10
◼
►
Exactly, thank you, Mike.
00:27:13
◼
►
See, who needs school when I can just learn this
00:27:15
◼
►
on a podcast?
00:27:16
◼
►
Exactly. Exactly.
00:27:18
◼
►
I learned everything I needed to know from podcasts.
00:27:20
◼
►
Same to you to this day.
00:27:21
◼
►
I learned everything I needed to know from Jason Snell, apparently.
00:27:23
◼
►
Podcast University, that's what we all went to.
00:27:26
◼
►
Studied at Podcast U.
00:27:29
◼
►
Studied at P.U.
00:27:32
◼
►
The M.P.U. You rebrand the M.P.U. as the My Podcast University.
00:27:37
◼
►
My Power University.
00:27:38
◼
►
Yeah, My Podcast University.
00:27:40
◼
►
There you go. Nailed it. Got it. Love it.
00:27:44
◼
►
Just as I'm gonna put some follow-up inside of this topic before we talk about a call up on Mac power users
00:27:49
◼
►
Mm-hmm, so I'm also like fully up-to-date now - I just hadn't listened to that episode yet where you spoke about your
00:27:56
◼
►
Computer changing. Yeah, and I feel like I don't fully understand what you've done or why you've done it
00:28:01
◼
►
I feel like you just kind of said I've done this thing, but there was no like
00:28:05
◼
►
Oh a laptop seems nicer like that wasn't a reason. Mmm. I expanded upon it in the 512 members newsletter
00:28:13
◼
►
Oh for God's sake.
00:28:15
◼
►
I guess what Mike is trying to say, imagine the show we would have been able to put on,
00:28:19
◼
►
Mike and I, if you told us you had switched computers.
00:28:22
◼
►
Because David is just nice to you.
00:28:24
◼
►
We would have put on a whole drama about it and instead, you know, you just got a nice
00:28:29
◼
►
guy to tell you, yeah, that's a good idea.
00:28:31
◼
►
Why are you making it so complicated, right?
00:28:33
◼
►
Like I have to listen to Mac Power Users and then read your newsletter to get the full
00:28:38
◼
►
Why can't you just tell me?
00:28:39
◼
►
Because this is your response.
00:28:40
◼
►
Because we want to get to do this.
00:28:43
◼
►
Okay, fair enough. Well, I want more from you. So like, you just said like, "Oh, I just
00:28:50
◼
►
stopped using my Mac studio. Now I have a laptop." Like, that's not satisfactory.
00:28:56
◼
►
Not satisfactory. So it really came down to the fact that I've been running the two-computer
00:29:03
◼
►
life style for like seven or eight years now. A long time.
00:29:08
◼
►
Tell me about it.
00:29:09
◼
►
since I moved into the studio.
00:29:11
◼
►
So I guess like, yeah, like seven, seven and a half years.
00:29:14
◼
►
I like a lot about the two computer lifestyle.
00:29:17
◼
►
And so I would have a desktop
00:29:19
◼
►
and then I would have a notebook
00:29:20
◼
►
and the notebook would be a subset of my data,
00:29:23
◼
►
my applications, my workflows, you know,
00:29:25
◼
►
all that sort of stuff.
00:29:26
◼
►
And it was especially great,
00:29:28
◼
►
or like not a big deal during the pandemic
00:29:30
◼
►
'cause I was just always using the desktop, right?
00:29:32
◼
►
'Cause I didn't go anywhere.
00:29:34
◼
►
But increasingly,
00:29:36
◼
►
and it's kind of a thing I wanna do this year even more,
00:29:39
◼
►
is work more out of the office when I can.
00:29:44
◼
►
And there were several times where I would be
00:29:47
◼
►
in the situation where like, oh crap,
00:29:50
◼
►
the podcast I was gonna edit here at the coffee shop
00:29:53
◼
►
is on the Mac Studio at home, or the Mac Pro,
00:29:55
◼
►
or whatever the desktop was at the time.
00:29:57
◼
►
Even though it's easier than ever
00:29:59
◼
►
to run the two Mac lifestyle, I just kind of realized
00:30:02
◼
►
that this is overhead that I don't actually need
00:30:06
◼
►
because the studio display's awesome
00:30:08
◼
►
and the MacBook Pro is awesome,
00:30:09
◼
►
and I can get a Thunderbolt dock
00:30:11
◼
►
and everything runs through that.
00:30:12
◼
►
So it really was about simplifying my setup.
00:30:15
◼
►
I'm really enjoying having everything with me at one place.
00:30:19
◼
►
Last week, we were on spring break,
00:30:20
◼
►
I was out of town for a few days,
00:30:22
◼
►
and I took my computer, I was like,
00:30:23
◼
►
"Oh, I have just everything with me."
00:30:26
◼
►
I don't have the overhead of like,
00:30:27
◼
►
make sure the files are in Dropbox,
00:30:29
◼
►
or, "Oh, I changed this setting,"
00:30:32
◼
►
or this whatever on that computer,
00:30:35
◼
►
it's not changed on this computer.
00:30:36
◼
►
So it's really a simplification,
00:30:38
◼
►
and the 14 inch MacBook Pro is so good,
00:30:41
◼
►
it seemed like the way to go when I wanted to try this out.
00:30:45
◼
►
- But you didn't have one of those though, did you?
00:30:48
◼
►
You had to get one of those, right?
00:30:50
◼
►
- I had a 14 inch M1 Pro, the first 14,
00:30:55
◼
►
but Mary took it.
00:30:57
◼
►
The kids were using an old Intel MacBook Air
00:30:59
◼
►
that was like on its last legs.
00:31:01
◼
►
And so her M1 Air went down to them for schoolwork
00:31:04
◼
►
and you know, Roblox and stuff.
00:31:07
◼
►
and then she got my 14 inch MacBook Pro.
00:31:10
◼
►
I was willing to get her whatever she wanted,
00:31:12
◼
►
but she really likes the size of the 14 inch.
00:31:16
◼
►
Like, 'cause she's been on MacBook Airs forever.
00:31:18
◼
►
Didn't you have an M2 Air?
00:31:20
◼
►
I still, yeah, so I have an M2 Air,
00:31:23
◼
►
and I told her, I was like, if you want,
00:31:25
◼
►
like, what do you want?
00:31:27
◼
►
And she kinda looked at them both,
00:31:29
◼
►
and she said she liked the bigger screen of the 14 inch.
00:31:32
◼
►
Because she went from, for a long time,
00:31:36
◼
►
she had an LG 4K Ultrafine, like the 21 and a half inch.
00:31:41
◼
►
And she got away from that
00:31:45
◼
►
and like just using a notebook as a notebook.
00:31:47
◼
►
And so she wanted the bigger screen.
00:31:50
◼
►
She really liked the 14 inch.
00:31:50
◼
►
So she has the M1 Pro 14 inch.
00:31:53
◼
►
Like that is still in our house.
00:31:54
◼
►
It's sitting in the house right now,
00:31:56
◼
►
like on the kitchen table. - Hold on a second.
00:31:59
◼
►
So you had a couple of weeks ago, a Mac Studio,
00:32:02
◼
►
A 14-inch MacBook Pro M1 and an M2 MacBook Air.
00:32:06
◼
►
Well, she was using the MacBook Pro.
00:32:08
◼
►
She's been using it for months now.
00:32:10
◼
►
Oh, that was when you got the Air.
00:32:13
◼
►
Yeah, so when I got the M2 Air, I bought it initially to review it.
00:32:17
◼
►
And then while I had it--
00:32:19
◼
►
Like the Intel--
00:32:20
◼
►
That was when the MacBook Pro--
00:32:21
◼
►
The Intel Air was just like just falling apart.
00:32:23
◼
►
I was like, OK.
00:32:25
◼
►
Which one, Mary, which one do you want?
00:32:26
◼
►
And I'll just take whatever you don't because at that time,
00:32:29
◼
►
it was my secondary computer.
00:32:30
◼
►
Well, she chose the MacBook Pro, leaving me with the M2 Air as my notebook.
00:32:35
◼
►
And I love the M2 Air.
00:32:36
◼
►
It's like an amazing laptop, but it's not enough for my daily.
00:32:39
◼
►
And so I ended up with a second 14 inch MacBook Pro in the house.
00:32:43
◼
►
OK, that makes sense.
00:32:45
◼
►
So you have well, I'm not done.
00:32:47
◼
►
So you have and you bought a new M1 Pro MacBook Pro.
00:32:53
◼
►
This is an M2 Pro.
00:32:54
◼
►
You bought the M2 Pro MacBook Pro.
00:32:58
◼
►
But you also only have one studio display now.
00:33:02
◼
►
Yes. You had two studio displays.
00:33:05
◼
►
I did. Why do you now only have one studio?
00:33:07
◼
►
Because I'm using the MacBook Pro open to the left of the studio display.
00:33:11
◼
►
Do you like that? I hate that.
00:33:13
◼
►
I do like it. I'm using it.
00:33:16
◼
►
I don't like the screen so small when you got it far away.
00:33:19
◼
►
Yeah, it is.
00:33:20
◼
►
But the only thing like right now, I have Timery, Todoist and Audio Hijack over there.
00:33:26
◼
►
And so it's just kind of like a status things
00:33:29
◼
►
I kind of always want to keep my eye on.
00:33:31
◼
►
And Zoom's over there, but I think head in at the moment.
00:33:33
◼
►
And then all of the work on the main stereo display.
00:33:37
◼
►
I could have definitely used the MacBook Pro in clamshell mode,
00:33:41
◼
►
but ended up going with this.
00:33:42
◼
►
And I actually really like it.
00:33:45
◼
►
The other sort of benefit to this
00:33:48
◼
►
is it's a much more mainstream setup than what
00:33:52
◼
►
I've had in a long, long time.
00:33:54
◼
►
I think there's something to be said for that too.
00:33:56
◼
►
I mean, don't get me wrong, the Mac Studio was amazing.
00:33:59
◼
►
I love the 2019 Mac Pro.
00:34:00
◼
►
I cannot wait to buy another one in like 15 years
00:34:02
◼
►
when they're super cheap on eBay.
00:34:04
◼
►
But it's running a, you know,
00:34:08
◼
►
like a 14-inch MacBook Pro and a studio display, very common.
00:34:11
◼
►
And so it is nice to kind of be in the world
00:34:14
◼
►
that a lot more people are in.
00:34:15
◼
►
Like I've got a Thunderbolt dock and, you know,
00:34:17
◼
►
kind of in that world where most listeners and readers are
00:34:21
◼
►
has been, I think it's beneficial to a degree.
00:34:25
◼
►
Stephen I need you to not listen for a minute I have to ask Federico something
00:34:29
◼
►
don't worry about it it's just something I'll ask him you don't need to worry
00:34:32
◼
►
about Federico yes what's he gonna do when that Mac Pro comes out he's gonna
00:34:37
◼
►
buy it right yeah I know so like it's like oh so good living one computer and
00:34:42
◼
►
then it's like we're gonna be gonna get to like I don't July it's like ah I've
00:34:46
◼
►
got to see Mac Pro because it's so powerful and like you know I need it for
00:34:48
◼
►
my work and yeah by the way living the two computer lifestyle so nice like
00:34:52
◼
►
what's going to happen. It's gonna do that.
00:34:55
◼
►
Someone recently asked me on
00:35:00
◼
►
Mastodon something along the lines of
00:35:02
◼
►
isn't it ironic that in your in your
00:35:05
◼
►
line of work you're never going to be
00:35:07
◼
►
truly satisfied and that hit me hard.
00:35:11
◼
►
Oh that hurts. Wait, what are you doing?
00:35:13
◼
►
Oh sorry. Go away. I realized, I realized, so that
00:35:17
◼
►
hit me real hard. I was like yeah this
00:35:19
◼
►
person is right but at the same time
00:35:21
◼
►
At the same time, I realized that there's no one more emblematic than this problem than
00:35:27
◼
►
Steven Hackett.
00:35:29
◼
►
Yes, the most unsatisfied of all of us.
00:35:32
◼
►
Like, we all have this problem.
00:35:35
◼
►
We all have this problem.
00:35:38
◼
►
But Steven really has this problem.
00:35:41
◼
►
I think there's something nice in that feeling when it comes to technology.
00:35:45
◼
►
Never been satisfied.
00:35:46
◼
►
Because you're always on the lookout for something more.
00:35:48
◼
►
We poke fun in good fun, you know, lighthearted fashion at Steven.
00:35:53
◼
►
But actually, like, I think we're all a little bit,
00:35:56
◼
►
there's a little Steven inside every one of us,
00:36:00
◼
►
like in the sense that, in the sense that we, I mean,
00:36:07
◼
►
it's, it's the nature of our work to always try things and
00:36:11
◼
►
tweak and, and some people have made that like,
00:36:15
◼
►
actually their career to constantly tinker and do this kind of stuff. But I think it's
00:36:24
◼
►
fun. You can overdo it. I guess what I'm trying to say to Mike's point, you can overdo it,
00:36:29
◼
►
but it's also fun at the same time. But Steven does it in a way that is always like you have
00:36:38
◼
►
mastered, I think, this process of making an announcement and then flip-flopping on
00:36:47
◼
►
that announcement. Like you've really, you know, made it your own as your thing, which
00:36:54
◼
►
we appreciate. That is why ultimately Mike and I were just sad that you didn't tell us
00:37:00
◼
►
on this show about it. Because we would have been supportive, you know, after some fun,
00:37:07
◼
►
always we would have been supportive, you know? Yeah, because none of us will ever be satisfied.
00:37:13
◼
►
Yeah, that's true. One reason it came up on MPU though is that David made a pledge that he was
00:37:19
◼
►
not going to buy a new Mac in 2023. Which is stupid. He is not going to stick to that.
00:37:25
◼
►
He's not going to stick to that. It's not going to happen. There's no way. And it did come up
00:37:30
◼
►
very naturally in the episode because he's like, "We both have two Macs, right, Steven? Like,
00:37:35
◼
►
Like I know why you had to say it at that moment, like it makes sense.
00:37:39
◼
►
Anyway, so this Anker wired charger thing...
00:37:43
◼
►
I forgot what we were talking about.
00:37:45
◼
►
It's a triangle.
00:37:46
◼
►
And previously it's been said that cubes were the best shape,
00:37:51
◼
►
and Anker makes a little charging cube, which I think Federico is a fan of.
00:37:54
◼
►
Are you going to buy the triangle charger?
00:37:58
◼
►
No, they are doomed, because the cube is a superior shape, right?
00:38:04
◼
►
The triangle. I mean, do you think it's a coincidence that everybody inside the pyramids is dead?
00:38:10
◼
►
Hey, we have a pyramid here. There's lots of people in it.
00:38:13
◼
►
Yeah, that's true.
00:38:14
◼
►
No, it doesn't matter. Cubes are the better shape, more optimal, more perfect.
00:38:20
◼
►
Cubes in history have survived multiple events.
00:38:28
◼
►
I don't know what that means.
00:38:29
◼
►
I don't think he knew what that meant.
00:38:31
◼
►
I have I think that there's a little bit of collusion going on here between Apple and Belkin.
00:38:36
◼
►
Anchor, sorry.
00:38:36
◼
►
Don't worry about Belkin, you can forget about them. I think that there's like a little collusion
00:38:44
◼
►
going on because they've put... You're saying Belkin doesn't matter?
00:38:49
◼
►
Because they're getting out of the matter standard?
00:38:52
◼
►
Yeah, but this is like we are seven stories deep now.
00:38:55
◼
►
Explain it. You didn't need to explain it.
00:38:57
◼
►
I have a joke to make and we're ruining my timing.
00:39:00
◼
►
So I think that there's some collusion between Anchor and Apple here, right?
00:39:05
◼
►
Because they want you to put your AirPods inside of the triangle.
00:39:09
◼
►
And I feel like if you put it inside of the triangle, the AirPods are just going to go,
00:39:12
◼
►
like they're going to go missing. It's going to be unexplained.
00:39:14
◼
►
Kate tells me under this court,
00:39:17
◼
►
"T'chi pyramids were specifically funerary monuments."
00:39:21
◼
►
Yeah, exactly. Why do you think they put dead people inside the triangle shape?
00:39:25
◼
►
Yeah, people are dying to get in.
00:39:29
◼
►
Also, just while we're in the Discord,
00:39:31
◼
►
Fisher Guy says, "The show notes this week
00:39:33
◼
►
are like more of a mind map."
00:39:36
◼
►
Which is really good.
00:39:37
◼
►
I feel like we should start making our show notes.
00:39:39
◼
►
They should just be mind maps.
00:39:41
◼
►
We should just see where that takes us.
00:39:43
◼
►
I have no idea where any chapter markers
00:39:46
◼
►
are gonna go so far.
00:39:48
◼
►
You should just make one chapter marker
00:39:50
◼
►
and just be like, it's not possible,
00:39:52
◼
►
and then just leave it.
00:39:53
◼
►
You know, I did that once.
00:39:55
◼
►
We did a show several years ago that I think it was like all breaking news.
00:39:59
◼
►
I did like 10 chapters that were all 10 seconds long and it was a sentence like
00:40:04
◼
►
me apologizing for the lack of chapter markers. It was good.
00:40:08
◼
►
It was peak chapter marker humor.
00:40:10
◼
►
Do you think people like that or not? Not like that? Like,
00:40:14
◼
►
I expect people didn't like that. What do you think?
00:40:17
◼
►
I don't know. Probably not.
00:40:18
◼
►
Who could tell?
00:40:22
◼
►
Automation April is back.
00:40:24
◼
►
Federico, what's going on?
00:40:25
◼
►
- It's coming back, second annual.
00:40:28
◼
►
Now, you know, you've done the first annual,
00:40:30
◼
►
now the second annual.
00:40:31
◼
►
The Automation April event that we launched last year,
00:40:34
◼
►
as I promised, I wanted to make it a tradition,
00:40:36
◼
►
is coming back.
00:40:37
◼
►
And so for those who missed it last year,
00:40:40
◼
►
Automation April, it's a month-long event,
00:40:42
◼
►
all about shortcuts automation.
00:40:43
◼
►
- The URL, man.
00:40:45
◼
►
- It's so long.
00:40:46
◼
►
This URL is 500 words long.
00:40:51
◼
►
- Maxstories.net/news/coming soon,
00:40:54
◼
►
the second annual Automation April community event
00:40:56
◼
►
featuring shortcuts, interviews, Discord, workshops,
00:40:59
◼
►
and a shortcut contest.
00:41:00
◼
►
- Jesus, it's the blood,
00:41:02
◼
►
you can literally go to Automation April doc, like.
00:41:05
◼
►
- I love this so much.
00:41:07
◼
►
This is the best URL.
00:41:09
◼
►
- This is the real John Voorhees move to not shorten it.
00:41:13
◼
►
Like I would've just been like Automation April 2023.
00:41:16
◼
►
- I never shortened the URLs either.
00:41:19
◼
►
I mean, look at my stories.
00:41:20
◼
►
I never do it.
00:41:21
◼
►
- I love this.
00:41:22
◼
►
This is so good.
00:41:23
◼
►
- I love making jokes in my slugs.
00:41:26
◼
►
It's always good.
00:41:27
◼
►
- Well, that's because you're a pro blogger, we're not.
00:41:29
◼
►
- Oh, they're all like this.
00:41:30
◼
►
- It's the default behavior of WordPress, guys.
00:41:34
◼
►
- Oh, I, look, don't ask me, I ain't no blogger.
00:41:36
◼
►
- That's true.
00:41:37
◼
►
- You know what I mean?
00:41:39
◼
►
- It just looks funny when it's pasted like that.
00:41:42
◼
►
- Automation April.
00:41:43
◼
►
- Coming back, there's gonna be a contest
00:41:45
◼
►
that's gonna run a little shorter than last year,
00:41:47
◼
►
but you're still gonna have a couple of weeks
00:41:49
◼
►
to make a shortcut and submit it.
00:41:51
◼
►
There's gonna be a web app like last year
00:41:54
◼
►
at automationinple.com.
00:41:56
◼
►
You can use your existing club account
00:41:58
◼
►
or app stories account, or if you're not a member,
00:42:02
◼
►
you can just create a free account just for this.
00:42:04
◼
►
Again, all like last year.
00:42:06
◼
►
A few tweaks to the categories of the contest.
00:42:09
◼
►
We are replacing the HomeKit category with the HealthKit one
00:42:14
◼
►
in fact, because we realized it's much easier
00:42:17
◼
►
to make and share a health kit based shortcut
00:42:20
◼
►
with other people than a home kit one.
00:42:22
◼
►
Because with health kit,
00:42:23
◼
►
you know, the health kit actions in shortcuts,
00:42:27
◼
►
they adapt to my iPhone and my Apple watch.
00:42:30
◼
►
But if I don't have the same garage door as you,
00:42:34
◼
►
there's very little I can do with the shortcut.
00:42:38
◼
►
- You can come up with my garage door.
00:42:38
◼
►
- High barrier to entry on those shortcuts.
00:42:42
◼
►
So we are replacing the health kit category
00:42:46
◼
►
with the HomeKit category with the HellKit one.
00:42:48
◼
►
There's a few updates in the lineup of judges
00:42:51
◼
►
for the Automation Airport contest.
00:42:54
◼
►
Notably, we are introducing the winner
00:42:57
◼
►
of the best overall shortcut from last year.
00:43:01
◼
►
Jack Welborn is gonna be a judge,
00:43:03
◼
►
graduating from winner last year to judge this year.
00:43:07
◼
►
Yeah, thank you.
00:43:08
◼
►
- Let me ask you a question.
00:43:09
◼
►
Is that now a prize or is that like,
00:43:11
◼
►
not necessarily gonna happen?
00:43:13
◼
►
- Well, it's a perk.
00:43:14
◼
►
I think it's a perk.
00:43:16
◼
►
- If you win, you get the option to become--
00:43:18
◼
►
- You get the option, and mostly just, you know,
00:43:20
◼
►
Jack will be able to participate again next year.
00:43:22
◼
►
'Cause I wanna prevent people from winning
00:43:25
◼
►
multiple years in a row. - That's smart.
00:43:27
◼
►
- I just wanna, you know, have a little,
00:43:28
◼
►
a little, you know, different takes on shortcut automation.
00:43:31
◼
►
- Yeah, I like it.
00:43:32
◼
►
- And then we're gonna learn from last year.
00:43:34
◼
►
We're gonna do what worked and not do what didn't work.
00:43:37
◼
►
So you can expect articles on Mac stories.
00:43:40
◼
►
I have a pretty sweet shortcut I'm working on.
00:43:44
◼
►
going to be... Are you going to try and win? Are you like entering the contest? No, no, I'm a judge.
00:43:49
◼
►
Can you imagine? The winner this year is me, baby! Collusion! I'm the best at shortcuts! I won, I'm the best!
00:43:56
◼
►
It's gonna be... So there's gonna be articles and max stories, there's gonna be shortcuts on max
00:44:03
◼
►
stories weekly. I'm gonna do... I really want to do like at least a couple of Automation Academy
00:44:08
◼
►
lessons for more advanced explanations of shortcuts, especially episodes of App Stories.
00:44:15
◼
►
We're going to interview some people about shortcuts and what changes in their automation
00:44:19
◼
►
setup and we're going to do again the workshops in Discord.
00:44:25
◼
►
Get together, take questions, like technical questions from people about shortcuts and
00:44:30
◼
►
answer those questions.
00:44:31
◼
►
Maybe Jack will be able to join us there as well or some other of our judges will need
00:44:35
◼
►
to, we'll have more details in terms of schedule and plans to share in the future as well as
00:44:41
◼
►
details for the prizes for the contest.
00:44:46
◼
►
All of this is kicking off April 3rd.
00:44:49
◼
►
This is just a little teaser that we wanted to put out today and there's lots more coming
00:44:57
◼
►
I have, like I said, some shortcuts that I've been working on and some more technical explanations
00:45:04
◼
►
that I'm gonna save for the club,
00:45:06
◼
►
plus some premier members.
00:45:08
◼
►
But yeah, we're doing this again,
00:45:10
◼
►
before WWDC, fun little tradition, and I'm excited.
00:45:14
◼
►
I love it, and it's a great time of year
00:45:16
◼
►
because I mean, the spring is like pretty quiet normally.
00:45:19
◼
►
Nothing else is going, yes, yes.
00:45:21
◼
►
Now last year this did, we made fun of you for it,
00:45:24
◼
►
it spread into May, and then I think-
00:45:28
◼
►
Oh, it will again, it will again,
00:45:30
◼
►
because we need a couple of weeks
00:45:32
◼
►
to adjudicate all of the different shortcuts.
00:45:34
◼
►
And people last year, they sent a lot of shortcuts.
00:45:37
◼
►
- Do you know how many you got last year?
00:45:39
◼
►
Are you willing to share if you remember?
00:45:40
◼
►
- Oh, I don't actually remember the full number.
00:45:45
◼
►
I wanna say that it was hundreds, it was not 1,000,
00:45:50
◼
►
but it was like, oh gosh, am I getting this wrong?
00:45:55
◼
►
Am I making this up that it was like 700 or something?
00:46:00
◼
►
Did I make this up?
00:46:01
◼
►
I don't know.
00:46:01
◼
►
- I probably made this up.
00:46:03
◼
►
- I just assigned John the task to tell us.
00:46:06
◼
►
- Yes, perfect.
00:46:07
◼
►
- I can tell you, it was a lot of shortcuts
00:46:10
◼
►
and we needed to sift through all of them.
00:46:13
◼
►
I also want to say--
00:46:14
◼
►
- John replied to the shrug.
00:46:16
◼
►
- That was not helpful.
00:46:20
◼
►
- I also wanted to say that if you sent a shortcut last year
00:46:24
◼
►
and you didn't win in any category,
00:46:27
◼
►
but you sent it last year already,
00:46:29
◼
►
But over the past year, maybe you've tweaked the shortcut
00:46:32
◼
►
and you've changed the shortcut a little,
00:46:34
◼
►
you can send it again.
00:46:35
◼
►
I mean, especially because, and I'm very aware of this,
00:46:39
◼
►
shortcuts hasn't changed a lot over the past year.
00:46:42
◼
►
There are some new actions, some new things you can do,
00:46:44
◼
►
but it's very likely that some of your more advanced
00:46:47
◼
►
shortcuts, you haven't been able to change them so much.
00:46:51
◼
►
So it's fine.
00:46:52
◼
►
As long as you didn't win in any existing category
00:46:55
◼
►
last year, again, I don't wanna have repeat winners,
00:46:57
◼
►
like the same shortcut to winning over and over and over.
00:47:00
◼
►
I don't think that's useful to anybody.
00:47:03
◼
►
But if you sent it last year, you didn't win anything,
00:47:06
◼
►
hey, send it again, you know, it's fine.
00:47:08
◼
►
- Real time follow up.
00:47:10
◼
►
According to maxstories.net,
00:47:13
◼
►
you had over 200 shortcuts submitted.
00:47:16
◼
►
- Okay, good. - That's awesome.
00:47:17
◼
►
- All right, okay, nice, yeah.
00:47:19
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm glad you're doing it again.
00:47:20
◼
►
And I know it's a lot of work, but it is so much fun.
00:47:23
◼
►
So thank you for doing it.
00:47:25
◼
►
This episode of Connected is brought to you by Electric.
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and relay FM.
00:48:57
◼
►
It is beyond mirror iPhone rumor season.
00:49:01
◼
►
We are now in iPhone cad leak season.
00:49:05
◼
►
- My favorite leveling up of the rumors
00:49:07
◼
►
when we start to get images.
00:49:08
◼
►
And I know Mike and Jason have talked about this
00:49:11
◼
►
on upgrade and these stories have been kind of leaking out
00:49:14
◼
►
over the last couple of weeks.
00:49:15
◼
►
But I wanna talk about them here in particular
00:49:17
◼
►
because of the mute switch.
00:49:19
◼
►
So amongst the rumors of the new iPhone,
00:49:23
◼
►
there are reports that those buttons on the side,
00:49:26
◼
►
on the left-hand side,
00:49:27
◼
►
so the mute ringer switch and the volume up and down,
00:49:30
◼
►
that those are gonna really get their first big change
00:49:33
◼
►
in a long time.
00:49:35
◼
►
I mean, the ringer switch dates back
00:49:36
◼
►
to the original iPhone in 2007.
00:49:39
◼
►
It's maybe like the most stable part
00:49:42
◼
►
of the iPhone design ever.
00:49:45
◼
►
And- - They even kept the orange.
00:49:47
◼
►
- Yeah, it's orange.
00:49:48
◼
►
- Unless some, now some phones it's white, so.
00:49:52
◼
►
- Yeah, instead of orange it's white on some phones.
00:49:55
◼
►
- If you have like some of the product red phones
00:49:58
◼
►
and I think some of the 5Cs, like the red,
00:50:02
◼
►
or the kind of red orange they use,
00:50:03
◼
►
the design of contrast, but.
00:50:05
◼
►
- Some people would say that the amount of information
00:50:08
◼
►
that you have is useless.
00:50:10
◼
►
I would say it is not at all, because I did not know that.
00:50:13
◼
►
And I would hazard to say most people listening to this show
00:50:16
◼
►
just went, huh, like me, because nobody knows that
00:50:19
◼
►
except you, so thank you.
00:50:21
◼
►
- And so some of these rumors
00:50:23
◼
►
that these phones are gonna be capacitive,
00:50:26
◼
►
like touch sensitive buttons,
00:50:28
◼
►
and that there's like the pressing type mute buttons
00:50:30
◼
►
I think we've spoken about before,
00:50:31
◼
►
which is very hard to understand.
00:50:33
◼
►
Maybe it clicks in and stays there and then clicks back out.
00:50:36
◼
►
But Federico, I know this morning on Mastodon
00:50:38
◼
►
you were talking about the mute switch,
00:50:40
◼
►
and I wanted to see if you would unpack that here for us.
00:50:43
◼
►
- I was talking and the people attacked me.
00:50:46
◼
►
Well, hang on, I think you shot first, to be fair.
00:50:49
◼
►
That's a Star Trek reference.
00:50:51
◼
►
But then I was attacked.
00:50:52
◼
►
I was attacked, but I wasn't really.
00:50:53
◼
►
I just like to say the word attacked.
00:50:55
◼
►
I think it sounds cool.
00:50:57
◼
►
He attacked, you know?
00:51:00
◼
►
So I have thoughts.
00:51:01
◼
►
I have strong opinions about this, okay?
00:51:06
◼
►
And I know that I am going to upset a portion
00:51:10
◼
►
of the listeners, including one of my co-hosts, I think.
00:51:14
◼
►
And I wanted to say, and don't take this the wrong way,
00:51:18
◼
►
take this in a very loving way.
00:51:20
◼
►
I don't care because it's my opinion.
00:51:23
◼
►
- What does that mean?
00:51:24
◼
►
You don't care if you upset people,
00:51:26
◼
►
is that what you're saying?
00:51:27
◼
►
- Well, it's like, when someone tells you,
00:51:28
◼
►
well, I don't care.
00:51:30
◼
►
Like, I'm not being aggressive here.
00:51:32
◼
►
I'm just saying, I don't care if you disagree with me
00:51:35
◼
►
because I firmly believe in my opinion.
00:51:38
◼
►
- And I'm going to explain why my opinion is the best one.
00:51:41
◼
►
- There it is.
00:51:43
◼
►
you don't have to be like that, do you?
00:51:45
◼
►
- Well, I can, I can and I will.
00:51:47
◼
►
- No, no, no, no, I didn't say you can't be like that.
00:51:51
◼
►
I said you don't have to, right?
00:51:54
◼
►
These are two different things.
00:51:56
◼
►
- Come on, this is what people want from this podcast
00:51:59
◼
►
and you know it.
00:52:00
◼
►
It's like, oh no, let's just have a serious conversation.
00:52:03
◼
►
No, it's opinions, okay?
00:52:06
◼
►
All right, so this idea,
00:52:08
◼
►
so we've been talking about this idea
00:52:10
◼
►
of Apple bringing a solid state button
00:52:11
◼
►
instead of the physical ringer switch to the iPhone for months.
00:52:16
◼
►
And there are people who have welcomed the idea and there have been other people
00:52:19
◼
►
like you to an extent, Michael, firmly rejecting this idea of...
00:52:25
◼
►
Can you point to where I firmly rejected?
00:52:27
◼
►
Well, on upgrade for example.
00:52:28
◼
►
I didn't firmly reject. I've never firmly rejected.
00:52:31
◼
►
Okay, well maybe it's my impression.
00:52:34
◼
►
You have concerns, but I can tell you that there are people,
00:52:37
◼
►
there are other people on Mastodon and in the online places firmly rejecting the idea
00:52:44
◼
►
of the ringer switch going away. Okay. And I tend to see, and I tend to see this argument
00:52:51
◼
►
develop over, you know, across the online places of like, oh, but if, if the ringer
00:52:58
◼
►
switch goes away, how will I be able to feel the mute switch in my pocket?
00:53:05
◼
►
This is the single most absurd theory I've heard in a long time.
00:53:11
◼
►
Theory of what?
00:53:13
◼
►
This idea that a lot of people feel the mute switch in their pockets.
00:53:21
◼
►
Who said a lot of people?
00:53:23
◼
►
Well, the people who firmly believe in this idea seem to, you know,
00:53:27
◼
►
co-operate with one another and say, "Oh, there's a lot of people like us."
00:53:32
◼
►
There's literally dozens of us.
00:53:34
◼
►
- There are, exactly, you get my point.
00:53:36
◼
►
There are multiple layers to this.
00:53:39
◼
►
First is the feeling of the mute switch
00:53:41
◼
►
and the other is obviously you're using a phone
00:53:43
◼
►
without a case.
00:53:45
◼
►
Because if, you know, I would say that if you're able
00:53:49
◼
►
to quickly feel the ringer switch
00:53:51
◼
►
is because your phone doesn't have a case on.
00:53:54
◼
►
- I don't agree with that.
00:53:55
◼
►
- I mean, it's easier when you don't have a case on,
00:53:57
◼
►
but when I used to wear a case,
00:53:58
◼
►
I used to be able to feel it.
00:53:59
◼
►
- So please tell me, please tell me with the leather,
00:54:02
◼
►
with the Apple leather case, for example.
00:54:03
◼
►
- I've never used those, I use the silicone cases.
00:54:05
◼
►
- Well, see, so like, I just feel like-
00:54:08
◼
►
- Silicone cases. - Most people would find it
00:54:11
◼
►
challenging to feel this,
00:54:13
◼
►
but there's two layers to this.
00:54:15
◼
►
- And the Apple cases are just like one type.
00:54:18
◼
►
A lot of people use cases that are much bulkier
00:54:21
◼
►
than the Apple ones. - Exactly, or cheaper
00:54:23
◼
►
than the Apple ones.
00:54:25
◼
►
So first of all, and I said it before,
00:54:28
◼
►
this idea of, oh, I use my phone without a case.
00:54:31
◼
►
This is by and large, I'm just gonna read straight
00:54:34
◼
►
from my notes, this is a rich nerd delusion.
00:54:37
◼
►
- This is, why?
00:54:38
◼
►
What does that mean?
00:54:39
◼
►
- Because most people who spend a lot of money on a phone,
00:54:44
◼
►
they wanna put it immediately in a case.
00:54:48
◼
►
- This idea that, oh, AppleCare is my case, no.
00:54:51
◼
►
- That's not, I don't even have AppleCare.
00:54:53
◼
►
- Okay, so you just like to live dangerously.
00:54:55
◼
►
- AppleCare's a scam.
00:54:56
◼
►
No, I've never broken an iPhone, except the one
00:54:59
◼
►
Well good for you!
00:55:00
◼
►
I quote unquote dropped to get the screen replaced.
00:55:03
◼
►
Yeah, what's that like?
00:55:04
◼
►
But you gotta...
00:55:05
◼
►
Would you agree?
00:55:06
◼
►
Would you agree that most people just,
00:55:10
◼
►
they take the phone and they put it in the case right away?
00:55:13
◼
►
Because I used to be that person.
00:55:15
◼
►
But like to go back to what you were saying before,
00:55:16
◼
►
I was that person and I could still use it because I used the silicon case
00:55:20
◼
►
because I'm not made of money and buying the leather case.
00:55:22
◼
►
Would you believe that you are one of the few that do this?
00:55:26
◼
►
I don't think so.
00:55:26
◼
►
Okay, good. All right, cool.
00:55:27
◼
►
So we are in agreement.
00:55:28
◼
►
This is... when I'm saying the thing that I'm concerned about is you won't be able to feel the thing
00:55:34
◼
►
is that's just a thing that I do, so it'll bother me.
00:55:37
◼
►
I don't think everyone's doing what I'm doing, which is like always... you know, you go into the theater
00:55:41
◼
►
and they're like "make sure your phone's on silent" and I can just reach into my pocket and check.
00:55:45
◼
►
Okay, well let's get to the second layer of this ringer switch onion.
00:55:51
◼
►
This idea that you just feel the mute switch.
00:55:56
◼
►
This is where I'm getting stuck upon.
00:55:59
◼
►
I would say that 90% of people in my life,
00:56:04
◼
►
you know what, I'm actually gonna say 99% of people
00:56:08
◼
►
in my life that I know in real life,
00:56:10
◼
►
everybody I know, rightfully so, keeps their phone silent.
00:56:15
◼
►
- Yes, that's the only thing you should do.
00:56:19
◼
►
- You don't wanna be the guy with, you know,
00:56:22
◼
►
why, if you don't have silent mode on,
00:56:25
◼
►
And again, there are exceptions.
00:56:27
◼
►
I can understand why, for example,
00:56:30
◼
►
an elder relative needs to have--
00:56:34
◼
►
- Ground down by the opinions of the internet.
00:56:37
◼
►
- You know, I am getting, I am just statistically speaking,
00:56:42
◼
►
most people should keep their phone silent.
00:56:46
◼
►
And especially, let's make it even more precise,
00:56:51
◼
►
especially the people who listen to this podcast.
00:56:55
◼
►
I would wager they have their phone silent because they have AirPods,
00:56:59
◼
►
because they have an Apple Watch,
00:57:01
◼
►
because they have an iPhone with the haptic feedback thing.
00:57:03
◼
►
They can feel the phone is ringing.
00:57:04
◼
►
And we all get so many notifications, like who wants their phone to just go like...
00:57:09
◼
►
How often do most people really need to dig in there, in their pocket,
00:57:18
◼
►
and be like, "Let me check the mute switch."
00:57:21
◼
►
Who is doing this?
00:57:23
◼
►
Who is doing...
00:57:24
◼
►
Okay, Mike, why are you doing this?
00:57:28
◼
►
I just said it, right? You go to the theatre or something, right?
00:57:31
◼
►
Or you go to a movie and they're like, make sure your phone's on silent
00:57:34
◼
►
and I just reach in and I can just do it. I could just do it by feel.
00:57:38
◼
►
All right, cool.
00:57:40
◼
►
Let me ask you.
00:57:40
◼
►
You do this because it's been available for a long time, forever on the phone.
00:57:45
◼
►
You've gotten used to it.
00:57:49
◼
►
Don't you think it's a little bit of a waste of
00:57:52
◼
►
physical space on an iPhone to have a switch that you and few others at the theater, they
00:58:02
◼
►
feel where, whereas the vast majority of people keep their phones silent all the time and
00:58:11
◼
►
are at this point maybe just used to doing a software based check-in with silent mode
00:58:19
◼
►
like they do on the iPad, like they do on Apple watch.
00:58:22
◼
►
Oh, I 100% would prefer there to be no switch at all.
00:58:25
◼
►
And I could, my phone could just always be in silent. Like I'm not arguing for,
00:58:29
◼
►
I'm not arguing that there's a switch.
00:58:31
◼
►
I'm arguing that what they are rumored to be replacing it with is worse.
00:58:35
◼
►
Let me ask you, are you sure that in this argument, deep down,
00:58:41
◼
►
you don't already agree with me?
00:58:45
◼
►
Deep down, you're in love with him.
00:58:47
◼
►
That's obvious.
00:58:49
◼
►
You know, you know, this is actually a strategy that I am.
00:58:51
◼
►
- What I agree, I'm agreeing with the point
00:58:53
◼
►
that you're making right now, which is like,
00:58:55
◼
►
having a mute switch at all is not necessary.
00:58:59
◼
►
I personally would prefer there to be no switch,
00:59:03
◼
►
no button, nothing, and if I want to turn my phone
00:59:07
◼
►
into loud mode, I just go to control center.
00:59:09
◼
►
Like that's what I would prefer.
00:59:10
◼
►
- Okay, good, all right, cool.
00:59:11
◼
►
- But I don't like this idea of like,
00:59:13
◼
►
if you're gonna have one, what they're rumored
00:59:15
◼
►
to be replacing it with, which is a capacitive button
00:59:18
◼
►
that has haptic feedback is worse in every possible way than what is currently on the phone.
00:59:23
◼
►
Well, have you tried it?
00:59:24
◼
►
But I can tell you, here's what I know what's going to happen, right?
00:59:27
◼
►
So here's my thing.
00:59:29
◼
►
They're going to say to me, like, I'm in somewhere,
00:59:32
◼
►
like, please make sure your phone is on silent, right?
00:59:34
◼
►
So I'm going to want to check that.
00:59:36
◼
►
So like, I'll have to press, I'll press the button.
00:59:38
◼
►
And then like, now I've turned it onto loud mode and I press it again to silence it.
00:59:44
◼
►
Like, I just don't like this.
00:59:46
◼
►
You know what it reminds me of?
00:59:48
◼
►
It reminds me two things, USB-A and AirPods Pro 2.
00:59:52
◼
►
Right? So you know like that old idea that every time you want to plug a USB
00:59:56
◼
►
into the port you have to do it twice, once and then again and then again or
01:00:00
◼
►
like two or three times because you always get it wrong?
01:00:02
◼
►
I've been noticing this recently with AirPods Pro 2 where I'm in the street
01:00:05
◼
►
and I'm like... because the adaptive transparency is so
01:00:09
◼
►
good now that sometimes I think I have noise cancellation on
01:00:12
◼
►
and the only way to check that is to do the thing and then I turn noise
01:00:17
◼
►
cancellation, then it's a cycle. Alright, so let me tell you why your concerns are misplaced,
01:00:23
◼
►
and why in two minutes you're gonna be in agreement with me. If you're gonna tell me I have to
01:00:28
◼
►
look at my phone, like, that's fine, but then there's no point putting the button, that's what
01:00:32
◼
►
I'm saying. If I have to look at the screen of my phone to see if I'm on silent mode, don't put the
01:00:36
◼
►
- Well, let me explain, but let me explain.
01:00:40
◼
►
I think so far we have assumed
01:00:45
◼
►
that this replacement for this ringer switch
01:00:49
◼
►
is gonna be a ringer switch.
01:00:51
◼
►
I think there's a much better opportunity for Apple here
01:00:54
◼
►
to take that physical space up there
01:00:57
◼
►
in the upper left corner of the iPhone
01:00:59
◼
►
and do something much more interesting with it.
01:01:02
◼
►
I wanna believe, and you know,
01:01:06
◼
►
pretty convinced actually that Apple realized, look,
01:01:10
◼
►
we have this space here and people are used to reach out
01:01:14
◼
►
to this button here.
01:01:15
◼
►
But most people we have discovered, you know, 15 years,
01:01:19
◼
►
whatever, into the iPhone's existence,
01:01:21
◼
►
that most people keep their phone silent anyway.
01:01:23
◼
►
Like that's just modern life and how it is,
01:01:26
◼
►
a modern social etiquette, whatever.
01:01:29
◼
►
I think there's a much better opportunity for Apple here
01:01:31
◼
►
to do a couple of things.
01:01:32
◼
►
First of all, to communicate in a couple of different ways,
01:01:35
◼
►
whether silent mode is on or off.
01:01:37
◼
►
You could consider a control center widget tile thing,
01:01:42
◼
►
or even for those more preoccupied than most people,
01:01:47
◼
►
whether it's on or off, a status bar icon.
01:01:50
◼
►
Like I could imagine a little status bar indicator
01:01:53
◼
►
that tells you, hey, silent mode is actually off,
01:01:56
◼
►
your phone is gonna make a sound.
01:01:57
◼
►
So they can consider control center
01:01:59
◼
►
or even a status bar icon.
01:02:02
◼
►
But I think there's a lot of potential here
01:02:04
◼
►
for a brand new type of button on the iPhone, think of it like, you know, it's like the action
01:02:11
◼
►
button on the Apple Watch Ultra. There is a programmable button that you can use to save
01:02:18
◼
►
time on your phone to do whatever asterisk you want to do with that button. The asterisk being
01:02:25
◼
►
whatever within, you know, certain types of actions that Apple has pre-programmed for you.
01:02:31
◼
►
So for example, imagine if you could press the button for immediate flashlight,
01:02:37
◼
►
press the button to open a messages conversation,
01:02:40
◼
►
press the button for Siri. Well, no, Siri is already on the other button.
01:02:43
◼
►
Press the button for a shortcut, press the button for a camera.
01:02:46
◼
►
Like, imagine all the different things you could do with it.
01:02:49
◼
►
Imagine if it sounds lovely.
01:02:51
◼
►
And the other thing I want to mention is,
01:02:54
◼
►
by making silent mode rather than being tied to a physical switch,
01:03:01
◼
►
If they are going to go the software way with it, it becomes a lot more useful and a lot more flexible when you consider how focus modes and shortcuts could integrate with it.
01:03:12
◼
►
Now you would be able to have a focus mode where your phone actually makes sounds in certain situations, but where you must absolutely hear if someone is calling you.
01:03:24
◼
►
And the opposite is also true. You could also turn it off with a shortcut or with a focus mode.
01:03:29
◼
►
So I think the change I want to see is not just, yeah, we redid the physical switch,
01:03:38
◼
►
which by the way, I would still welcome if it's still a physical switch.
01:03:43
◼
►
If it's only for the ringer switch, I'm sorry, because I find the current design,
01:03:48
◼
►
and I have always found the current design impossible to operate with the case on.
01:03:55
◼
►
I'm trying now with my finger and I just cannot toggle it.
01:03:59
◼
►
I just cannot do it.
01:04:01
◼
►
Interesting.
01:04:02
◼
►
But second, I want to hope that they actually go beyond this
01:04:06
◼
►
and that their thinking is, well, let's actually do something a little more useful and fun with that spot.
01:04:13
◼
►
We're going to do brand new buttons and we're going to let people choose what to do with it.
01:04:18
◼
►
It would be very nice if that was the case.
01:04:22
◼
►
I will say though, I have a thing I had a thought today, right?
01:04:25
◼
►
So these are in theory, you're going to get three capacitive buttons, right?
01:04:29
◼
►
On the phone cases are going to be worse.
01:04:32
◼
►
They're going to have three cutouts, right?
01:04:34
◼
►
If it's capacitive, it needs to know that your fingers touching it to operate.
01:04:39
◼
►
So you're going to have cases.
01:04:40
◼
►
It's going to be full of cutouts.
01:04:41
◼
►
You know, we're getting used to that.
01:04:45
◼
►
We got used to many things in life.
01:04:46
◼
►
It's won't kill you to have two more cutouts, you know, whatever.
01:04:51
◼
►
I mean in one kill you don't use a case. I would like to believe that it would be better.
01:04:56
◼
►
I hope it will be better, which is why I'm not like against it. Like I'm willing to see what they've got.
01:04:59
◼
►
But I think the idea, the thing that I've had of like just being able to reach into my pocket and tell that my phone is easily on silent.
01:05:06
◼
►
I think that that would just have to change. But I would be willing to give that up if I could have more software control over what is like, what makes noise and what doesn't.
01:05:15
◼
►
That would be cool.
01:05:16
◼
►
I think it's super interesting.
01:05:19
◼
►
They could go a bunch of different ways
01:05:21
◼
►
and the fact that it has been the same for so long,
01:05:24
◼
►
like it's just really wild to think about.
01:05:27
◼
►
And I think if we look at the iPhone 7,
01:05:30
◼
►
was it the 7 that was the first
01:05:31
◼
►
with the capacitive home button?
01:05:33
◼
►
I think it was.
01:05:36
◼
►
You know, that is an interesting example
01:05:38
◼
►
because it was a physical switch that was capacitive
01:05:42
◼
►
and they did the Taptic Engine and stuff
01:05:44
◼
►
that didn't last very long, right?
01:05:46
◼
►
'Cause it was the seven, the eight,
01:05:48
◼
►
and then we went to the 10.
01:05:50
◼
►
But I think they did a pretty good job with that.
01:05:52
◼
►
I mean, it was a little weird to get used to,
01:05:56
◼
►
but I think, you know, it did the job
01:05:58
◼
►
and it was, I think, a lot more robust
01:06:00
◼
►
than the previous home buttons.
01:06:02
◼
►
I mean, I think everyone at some point or another
01:06:05
◼
►
had experienced a home button failure
01:06:07
◼
►
on an iPhone before that.
01:06:09
◼
►
So they can do it.
01:06:11
◼
►
It's just gonna be interesting to see what they do.
01:06:15
◼
►
It also reminds me of the iPad.
01:06:18
◼
►
For a while, the first several iterations,
01:06:20
◼
►
the iPad had a switch on the side,
01:06:24
◼
►
and you could, eventually, you could use it
01:06:27
◼
►
for either orientation lock, which is how I used it,
01:06:31
◼
►
or mute ringer.
01:06:33
◼
►
And I don't think orientation locks matters nearly
01:06:38
◼
►
as much on the phone as it does on the iPad,
01:06:40
◼
►
But there is some precedence for Apple having a Switch
01:06:43
◼
►
and then having software to like tell the Switch what to do.
01:06:46
◼
►
- Nice good memory.
01:06:48
◼
►
- Yeah, so I am hopeful that we do get
01:06:50
◼
►
some more customization like you're talking about Federico.
01:06:52
◼
►
I think it'd be really interesting
01:06:54
◼
►
and the Apple Watch Ultra is right there
01:06:55
◼
►
and you know, actually button it up, that's what I say.
01:06:58
◼
►
- I'm not gonna like when I can't change the volume
01:07:03
◼
►
of my iPhone just by like pressing the buttons
01:07:06
◼
►
through my jeans or whatever though.
01:07:08
◼
►
That's gonna be annoying too.
01:07:09
◼
►
So you have a finger that will have to physically touch the button, right? To change the volume?
01:07:13
◼
►
Yeah, and maybe there'll be issues with like gloves and other stuff. We just don't know yet.
01:07:17
◼
►
Although we'll just have to see. For sure. Yeah, with gloves.
01:07:20
◼
►
Yeah. Although, I mean, I think a lot of people, including me, like even my like pretty good winter gloves,
01:07:26
◼
►
have, you know, the index fingers have like a passive material sewn on now.
01:07:30
◼
►
Yeah, I don't have that. I don't like the way that looks.
01:07:33
◼
►
Yeah, well, I mean.
01:07:34
◼
►
It's like very ET, like weird little pat on your finger or something.
01:07:37
◼
►
ET, iPhone home. This episode of Connected is brought to you by ZocDoc. When someone is
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◼
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exceptionally good at what they do, could be a waiter, chef, a doctor, a podcaster,
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one arm. I didn't write this copy, but I love Mexican food, and so like I'm here for it.
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Would you eat five trays of sizzling fajitas?
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No, I would be in the hospital. Like, that's so much food. That's so much food.
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to download the ZocDoc app for free.
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That's Z-O-C-D-O-C, zocdoc.com/connected.
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Once again, that's zakdok.com/connected.
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◼
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Our thanks to Zakdok for the support of the show
01:09:33
◼
►
and Relay FM.
01:09:35
◼
►
- Have you guys heard of artificial intelligence?
01:09:40
◼
►
Have you come across this before?
01:09:42
◼
►
- I think I, is it the thing,
01:09:45
◼
►
is it the thing that they use in video games
01:09:47
◼
►
so that the goombas can kill you?
01:09:49
◼
►
- Yes, so artificial intelligence was created
01:09:52
◼
►
by Shigeru Miyamoto in 19--
01:09:54
◼
►
- Right, right, right.
01:09:55
◼
►
Yeah, yeah, I'm familiar, I'm familiar.
01:09:57
◼
►
Yes. So Stephen, I think put this in the document.
01:10:01
◼
►
I have felt like the AI things we have out there,
01:10:04
◼
►
like everything from mid journey to chat, GPT, everything in between.
01:10:08
◼
►
They're interesting. Obviously with Bing, they've been productized,
01:10:11
◼
►
but Microsoft has announced Microsoft 365 co-pilot.
01:10:17
◼
►
Co-pilot you may recognize that's branding from GitHub, which Microsoft owns,
01:10:20
◼
►
where their AI can like help you write code. And some people love it.
01:10:25
◼
►
Some people hate it.
01:10:26
◼
►
That's not the debate today.
01:10:28
◼
►
But they're bringing like features to Microsoft 365.
01:10:33
◼
►
And this means that when you are in an Office application,
01:10:38
◼
►
so say that you are in Word or you're in Excel or PowerPoint
01:10:43
◼
►
or their new Notion competitor kind of is actually in beta,
01:10:48
◼
►
I think as of today.
01:10:49
◼
►
- I did not know that was a thing that they did,
01:10:51
◼
►
but it makes perfect sense.
01:10:53
◼
►
- Yeah, it's actually pretty nice, yeah.
01:10:54
◼
►
- Yeah, it looks awesome.
01:10:56
◼
►
I wanna play with it.
01:10:57
◼
►
But they're bringing this into their apps.
01:11:01
◼
►
And you may think if you're of a certain age,
01:11:03
◼
►
Steven, this sounds like Clippy.
01:11:05
◼
►
It looks like you're trying to write a letter.
01:11:07
◼
►
Let me help you.
01:11:08
◼
►
Hopefully it's better than that, but it's very similar.
01:11:12
◼
►
- What if Clippy had a brain?
01:11:14
◼
►
- Yeah, exactly.
01:11:16
◼
►
What if Clippy was powered by thousands of GPUs in the cloud?
01:11:19
◼
►
And so you can use within the applications,
01:11:24
◼
►
these tools to complete CERNet tasks?
01:11:27
◼
►
- Oh my God, this is just Notion.
01:11:29
◼
►
- Yeah, it's literally Notion.
01:11:31
◼
►
Yes, it's literally Notion.
01:11:32
◼
►
- They just made Notion.
01:11:33
◼
►
Man, Microsoft are relentless right now.
01:11:37
◼
►
- They are ruthless, yes.
01:11:39
◼
►
- I kind of, it's interesting.
01:11:41
◼
►
I kind of like it in a way,
01:11:42
◼
►
kind of don't like it in other ways,
01:11:43
◼
►
but like it is fascinating to watch.
01:11:45
◼
►
And it's just like, who would have thought,
01:11:48
◼
►
I'm sorry, I'm stepping on your topic right now.
01:11:49
◼
►
- No, no, you're good.
01:11:50
◼
►
- But like who would have thought
01:11:52
◼
►
that we'd be back here again,
01:11:53
◼
►
where Microsoft are like dangerous.
01:11:57
◼
►
You know, it's just like they have all of it, you know,
01:12:00
◼
►
like they are ready to go and they're going to gobble gobble
01:12:03
◼
►
gobble all the competition.
01:12:06
◼
►
Yeah, and as Kate points out, Notion has AI features too.
01:12:08
◼
►
It's in a lot of places now.
01:12:09
◼
►
Yeah, but it kind of doesn't matter, right?
01:12:11
◼
►
Like this is the Microsoft thing right now.
01:12:12
◼
►
It's like why teams have destroyed Slack.
01:12:14
◼
►
It doesn't matter that employees--
01:12:17
◼
►
sorry, it doesn't matter that other apps have it.
01:12:19
◼
►
The issue is Microsoft come in and say, well,
01:12:22
◼
►
you're already paying for this.
01:12:23
◼
►
So we can give it for free or basically free.
01:12:26
◼
►
So it doesn't matter what their competitors have.
01:12:29
◼
►
Microsoft are able to take up so much ground right now
01:12:31
◼
►
because business runs on Office anyway.
01:12:34
◼
►
And so it's like, if they even have a mildly good version
01:12:38
◼
►
of it, it's going to be better for your business
01:12:41
◼
►
than if you use whatever, right?
01:12:43
◼
►
So that's what they're doing and it's genius.
01:12:45
◼
►
- Yeah, and so we have a collection of links
01:12:46
◼
►
in the show notes.
01:12:47
◼
►
You can go and read through them.
01:12:51
◼
►
It's about some of the things that this can do.
01:12:54
◼
►
So you can do sort of the,
01:12:56
◼
►
hey, I need a letter that says this and this style
01:13:00
◼
►
and it will put something together.
01:13:01
◼
►
But you can also give co-pilot documents
01:13:06
◼
►
or access to documents and it will summarize them.
01:13:09
◼
►
It can be present on a Teams meeting
01:13:14
◼
►
and give you notes from the meeting,
01:13:18
◼
►
like all sorts of stuff.
01:13:20
◼
►
And this is, it's a very small program right now.
01:13:24
◼
►
Like I don't think anyone just has access to it yet,
01:13:27
◼
►
but it's gonna be coming.
01:13:29
◼
►
And it's interesting to me because it's Microsoft.
01:13:33
◼
►
And like you said,
01:13:34
◼
►
Microsoft is like eating its Wheaties all of a sudden.
01:13:36
◼
►
It's like ready to go.
01:13:38
◼
►
But this is where I think a lot of, you know,
01:13:41
◼
►
sort of regular people who don't listen to tech podcasts,
01:13:44
◼
►
who just have, you know,
01:13:45
◼
►
regular jobs that they use Office all day, every day,
01:13:48
◼
►
it's gonna be their first experience
01:13:50
◼
►
with some of this technology,
01:13:51
◼
►
and that feels like a really big deal to me.
01:13:54
◼
►
It feels like, okay,
01:13:56
◼
►
and being with sort of step one of this,
01:13:58
◼
►
but being as really small,
01:13:59
◼
►
so office I think is much bigger,
01:14:01
◼
►
this is where people are just gonna come across this
01:14:05
◼
►
during their day and use it.
01:14:07
◼
►
And they may not fully understand what it can or can't do
01:14:11
◼
►
or what it is or isn't good at.
01:14:14
◼
►
I think that will have to be,
01:14:16
◼
►
that will have to be shaken out
01:14:18
◼
►
within organizations over time.
01:14:20
◼
►
Like there will be organizations,
01:14:22
◼
►
I got a handful of emails from various people,
01:14:25
◼
►
like, yeah, I'm sure you saw this,
01:14:28
◼
►
we will not be turning this on in our organization, right?
01:14:31
◼
►
'Cause they don't want a co-pilot
01:14:33
◼
►
to have access to their data or whatever.
01:14:35
◼
►
So there's lots of complications here,
01:14:37
◼
►
but it seems like a really big deal
01:14:40
◼
►
that this is gonna be baked into office.
01:14:42
◼
►
and it does kind of lead to the question
01:14:46
◼
►
because Google Docs has the basic things as well.
01:14:49
◼
►
Although if you've played with any of Google's
01:14:52
◼
►
or like watched the video on BARD,
01:14:53
◼
►
like clearly they're behind OpenAI and Microsoft,
01:14:56
◼
►
but do we need this in numbers and pages of keynote too?
01:15:00
◼
►
Is this something that makes Office more attractive to y'all
01:15:04
◼
►
kind of want to get the temperature on it?
01:15:06
◼
►
- I think the Apple discussion is actually
01:15:10
◼
►
maybe a discussion we should have separately
01:15:12
◼
►
at some point in the future, but like,
01:15:14
◼
►
the answer is probably yes.
01:15:16
◼
►
I know, the answer is yes, right?
01:15:17
◼
►
Like, all of their competitors will be adding
01:15:20
◼
►
these features, Apple have to find a way to do it
01:15:22
◼
►
in a way that makes sense for them.
01:15:24
◼
►
But like, this co-pilot thing in Office
01:15:27
◼
►
is the first AI tool that I have been excited about,
01:15:32
◼
►
interested in, and makes sense to me.
01:15:38
◼
►
Because what I, you know,
01:15:41
◼
►
Cortex systems have heard me talk about this before.
01:15:43
◼
►
I've spoke about other shows too, right?
01:15:45
◼
►
Like what I don't like about some of the stuff
01:15:46
◼
►
that exists out there currently,
01:15:48
◼
►
is it is just using a model,
01:15:53
◼
►
which is generated from other people's work
01:15:55
◼
►
to then like people just like,
01:15:56
◼
►
oh, make me this thing.
01:15:57
◼
►
And it's just like, makes a thing, right?
01:15:59
◼
►
Like show me an image of Steve Jobs on InSpace.
01:16:02
◼
►
It's like, somebody could draw that.
01:16:04
◼
►
And like, instead you've just asked this thing
01:16:06
◼
►
to just spit it out.
01:16:07
◼
►
and it's just like creating this new work
01:16:10
◼
►
based on other people's work,
01:16:12
◼
►
where a lot of the features that we've seen in Copilot,
01:16:15
◼
►
it's like using the system,
01:16:17
◼
►
which yes has been pulled from text,
01:16:20
◼
►
but I think text on the web is slightly different
01:16:22
◼
►
when so much of it's about SEO anyway,
01:16:23
◼
►
but it's a whole different conversation.
01:16:26
◼
►
Like this kind of stuff is like taking my work
01:16:31
◼
►
and using this tool to make it something else.
01:16:34
◼
►
Like here's a presentation I have,
01:16:37
◼
►
make a PowerPoint for me.
01:16:39
◼
►
It's like, this is all, I'm in the loop here, 100%, right?
01:16:42
◼
►
Or like, here's my spreadsheet.
01:16:45
◼
►
Can you organize this into some charts and stuff?
01:16:49
◼
►
It's like just taking out the work
01:16:51
◼
►
where I was otherwise gonna need to be like,
01:16:53
◼
►
Googling to get the formulas
01:16:55
◼
►
where I don't understand how to use them.
01:16:57
◼
►
Like this to me, makes a lot of sense
01:17:00
◼
►
for the kinds of things that I want to be doing.
01:17:04
◼
►
And it also has, I think, significantly to somewhat less
01:17:09
◼
►
of the ethical concerns that I have
01:17:12
◼
►
around where this information comes from
01:17:15
◼
►
and what it's replacing.
01:17:17
◼
►
- Yes, I feel the same way.
01:17:19
◼
►
- Yeah, 'cause in a way it has a fence around it, right?
01:17:22
◼
►
It's like, okay, I want you to look at these documents
01:17:25
◼
►
and synthesize something new out of them.
01:17:28
◼
►
You know, we've all passed examples around on Mastodon
01:17:31
◼
►
and Discord and Slack of like,
01:17:32
◼
►
Look at this wildly inaccurate thing that ChatGPT said,
01:17:36
◼
►
or now Bard because Bard makes ChatGPT
01:17:40
◼
►
look like a Rhodes scholar.
01:17:42
◼
►
But I think you're right that this is like different
01:17:46
◼
►
and I think it's exciting.
01:17:48
◼
►
I do think that there's potential fallout
01:17:52
◼
►
and I think there's potential concern
01:17:56
◼
►
in a lot of organizations about what it will do
01:17:58
◼
►
and are people gonna be placed by this robot or something.
01:18:00
◼
►
I don't know any of the answers to that.
01:18:02
◼
►
I'm not smart enough to know any of that,
01:18:04
◼
►
but I do think this is like a fundamental shift where, okay,
01:18:07
◼
►
basically the world runs on Office.
01:18:10
◼
►
And once this is widely available in organizations,
01:18:14
◼
►
it is a change.
01:18:17
◼
►
And I think for me, up until this point,
01:18:22
◼
►
it's been part of me,
01:18:24
◼
►
part of my thinking on the AI tools that we have,
01:18:28
◼
►
I kind of been like, well, this is like a fad.
01:18:30
◼
►
Like this is like the new chat bot, right?
01:18:34
◼
►
And, or the new whatever, you know,
01:18:37
◼
►
we've been in this industry long enough,
01:18:38
◼
►
we've seen fad technology come and go.
01:18:43
◼
►
And it's like, okay, Microsoft entering the ring
01:18:45
◼
►
is really interesting.
01:18:46
◼
►
Making it a feature of Office 365,
01:18:49
◼
►
that's a lot harder to unwind than,
01:18:52
◼
►
oh, we made this like weird web tool
01:18:54
◼
►
and then it just goes away one day
01:18:56
◼
►
because it's not fashionable anymore.
01:18:58
◼
►
Like this is a bigger commitment than anything we've seen
01:19:03
◼
►
from any of these companies so far.
01:19:06
◼
►
And that makes me kind of step back and think like,
01:19:09
◼
►
okay, this is more important than maybe I felt like it was
01:19:14
◼
►
up until now.
01:19:16
◼
►
Does that make sense?
01:19:17
◼
►
Is that track?
01:19:18
◼
►
And I think it's especially if you're someone else,
01:19:22
◼
►
if you're Apple,
01:19:24
◼
►
and maybe we should save the discussion for another time,
01:19:26
◼
►
but I think it's especially scary when you consider
01:19:28
◼
►
how they're bringing this all together.
01:19:30
◼
►
Like it's not just like individually
01:19:32
◼
►
Word, PowerPoint, and Excel,
01:19:33
◼
►
but it's like Outlook is gonna have all of this.
01:19:36
◼
►
Outlook Mobile is gonna have all of this.
01:19:38
◼
►
And they've sort of been on this mission
01:19:40
◼
►
for the past two years or so
01:19:42
◼
►
to reinvent like the very structure of the Office ecosystem
01:19:46
◼
►
so that everything is gonna be based on components.
01:19:48
◼
►
And all of these components are gonna come together
01:19:50
◼
►
into the notion copycat immediately that they made loop,
01:19:55
◼
►
which is in beta preview today.
01:19:57
◼
►
But I think, like you look at it today and it looks like a Notion copy,
01:20:00
◼
►
doesn't have an API, doesn't, not nearly as flexible as Notion,
01:20:05
◼
►
but it's scary when you consider that loop is tying
01:20:09
◼
►
together apps and services that hundreds of
01:20:14
◼
►
millions, billions of users rely
01:20:19
◼
►
on. So you can...
01:20:20
◼
►
Anyone in professional work is using Office, at least some somehow, right?
01:20:25
◼
►
Even people like me and Mike have Office installed because we get sent Word documents we have
01:20:29
◼
►
to deal with, right?
01:20:33
◼
►
And it's like, you know, you're saying about the API, Federico doesn't need an API because
01:20:36
◼
►
it just pulls from Office.
01:20:38
◼
►
Like, why does it need an API?
01:20:40
◼
►
Like that's how then... that's what they're saying.
01:20:42
◼
►
That's what they would say.
01:20:43
◼
►
And I agree with them, like for their strategy of like, no, don't use a different whatever
01:20:48
◼
►
app, just use our one.
01:20:50
◼
►
And Adam from the Discord saying, "Open doc finally realized in many ways yes."
01:20:56
◼
►
This is actually the vision of like, what if everything was based on components and
01:21:00
◼
►
you can mix and match these components into this sort of amorphous type of document that
01:21:05
◼
►
is not a document but also is a live document with multiple components from other places?
01:21:09
◼
►
Yes, that's exactly the idea.
01:21:12
◼
►
But when you, on top of this, when you consider how they're touching upon email with Outlook
01:21:18
◼
►
personal to-do's with Microsoft to-do is going to be compatible with this.
01:21:23
◼
►
I think they've actually built a pretty...
01:21:26
◼
►
They are building a very compelling ecosystem for big companies, but also small to medium
01:21:35
◼
►
I think this is going to be very compelling as a strategy to be like, "Okay, I guess we
01:21:39
◼
►
can have to-do's and we can have projects and we can have loop and office and email
01:21:42
◼
►
going into Outlook and everything comes together and then we can chat in Teams."
01:21:48
◼
►
there's AI to help make sense of all of these along the way.
01:21:51
◼
►
- Yep. - Eh, you know.
01:21:53
◼
►
- Co-pilot's there to just help you out all the time.
01:21:56
◼
►
It's like, to touch on something you were saying
01:21:59
◼
►
a moment ago, Steven, about like the fad nature of it,
01:22:02
◼
►
like I understand that feeling, but at the same time,
01:22:06
◼
►
I feel like right now we are,
01:22:09
◼
►
and this is not an original thought at all,
01:22:11
◼
►
but I'm just gonna say it anyway,
01:22:12
◼
►
like we are living in a truly unprecedented time
01:22:14
◼
►
in technology, like the speed at which these AI tools are
01:22:21
◼
►
I can't think of any technology that was introduced
01:22:24
◼
►
and then improved so dramatically
01:22:26
◼
►
in such a short space of time.
01:22:28
◼
►
It's obscene how big a leap that it has jumped in less than five--
01:22:33
◼
►
less than six months.
01:22:35
◼
►
It's like an unbelievable thing.
01:22:38
◼
►
It's really wild.
01:22:39
◼
►
And I also wanted to share with you both--
01:22:41
◼
►
I had lunch with a friend yesterday.
01:22:42
◼
►
we talk about this stuff like everyone is now, right?
01:22:44
◼
►
You have any kind of, anybody in technology,
01:22:47
◼
►
everyone's just talking about this stuff.
01:22:48
◼
►
I had a realization that I think if you guys agree with me,
01:22:53
◼
►
you will be clearly as uncomfortable with.
01:22:55
◼
►
Because of these tools, right?
01:22:58
◼
►
Like realistic text can be generated so easily.
01:23:03
◼
►
I'm sure that you both like me get lots of,
01:23:08
◼
►
not spam email, but like that middle ground email
01:23:13
◼
►
where it's like, hey, here's a pitch.
01:23:15
◼
►
Hey, here's a thing.
01:23:16
◼
►
Hey, here's a thing.
01:23:17
◼
►
I think within five years,
01:23:19
◼
►
I will not be able to use email anymore
01:23:22
◼
►
because when people hook these bots up to email.
01:23:25
◼
►
- It's game over.
01:23:27
◼
►
- It's impossible.
01:23:27
◼
►
I won't be able to open my email inbox.
01:23:29
◼
►
I will be getting hundreds of emails a day
01:23:31
◼
►
that will look real.
01:23:32
◼
►
- The worst ones that I get right now
01:23:35
◼
►
is like it looks like it's a threaded reply.
01:23:39
◼
►
And so SaneBox, which is a sponsor of some other stuff I do,
01:23:42
◼
►
like SaneBox misses it because it's like,
01:23:46
◼
►
read the phone call we had last week.
01:23:48
◼
►
And like they do like fake threading in the email
01:23:50
◼
►
and it's wild.
01:23:53
◼
►
- I just got one, literally just got one.
01:23:55
◼
►
Hey, Connected, my name's Dan.
01:23:57
◼
►
I'm a tech founder in the podcasting space.
01:23:59
◼
►
You are trying to make a real impact
01:24:02
◼
►
in how podcasts could land.
01:24:03
◼
►
higher quality brand deals.
01:24:05
◼
►
Like I get this stuff constantly.
01:24:08
◼
►
And at the point where these two things can happen of one,
01:24:12
◼
►
you can have AI writing them.
01:24:13
◼
►
And then two, AI learning the ways
01:24:16
◼
►
to break through to my inbox.
01:24:18
◼
►
- Our email interactions in the future
01:24:20
◼
►
are gonna be like the Rorschach test
01:24:22
◼
►
from the first scene in Blade Runner.
01:24:23
◼
►
We're gonna need to evaluate whether the incoming messages
01:24:26
◼
►
from an AI bot or from a real person.
01:24:29
◼
►
- Yeah, genuinely, I just don't think
01:24:31
◼
►
that I will be able to use email anymore.
01:24:34
◼
►
I think I'll have to do something else.
01:24:37
◼
►
- You know, there's gonna be services
01:24:38
◼
►
that are gonna scan your inbox for messages
01:24:41
◼
►
that were sent to you from other AIs.
01:24:43
◼
►
- Yeah, but what I'm saying, I could see that,
01:24:45
◼
►
but I also just don't think it's gonna work.
01:24:47
◼
►
- Probably not.
01:24:48
◼
►
- As Steven just said, we all use a tool, right,
01:24:53
◼
►
which finds this stuff and gets rid of it,
01:24:55
◼
►
but then people trick it until they,
01:24:57
◼
►
like it's like a cat and mouse game, right?
01:25:00
◼
►
Eventually these tools learn to realize these things,
01:25:03
◼
►
but then you just do something else.
01:25:04
◼
►
So like, I just don't think that it's gonna be,
01:25:07
◼
►
I think the open nature of email
01:25:10
◼
►
will crumble to this kind of technology.
01:25:12
◼
►
- We'll see.
01:25:13
◼
►
I mean, there's so many knock-on effects from--
01:25:17
◼
►
- It's touching everything.
01:25:18
◼
►
- Yeah, and like, I don't think anyone,
01:25:20
◼
►
I mean, I think, I can speak for all three of us,
01:25:23
◼
►
none of us are experts in this field,
01:25:25
◼
►
but I think even if you are an expert in this field,
01:25:27
◼
►
this is new territory.
01:25:28
◼
►
And it's just, uh, accelerating, like you said, Mike, really, really pretty quickly.
01:25:34
◼
►
So I've decided also that I'm like, I'm giving into it now.
01:25:38
◼
►
Like I'm now trying to find the things that I find interesting.
01:25:40
◼
►
Cause like, I can't just keep resisting this forever because this is technology now.
01:25:45
◼
►
So like, I'm trying to open myself up to this and like, I'm now like, all right,
01:25:49
◼
►
so this, I found one thing that I find interesting, which is copilot.
01:25:53
◼
►
So there can be interesting things to me here.
01:25:56
◼
►
Now I've just got to find more of them.
01:25:57
◼
►
I started paying for a chat GPT plus.
01:26:01
◼
►
- What do you use it for?
01:26:02
◼
►
- It's excellent for editing or like grammar checking,
01:26:07
◼
►
for example.
01:26:09
◼
►
- You see, it's what you were saying about like,
01:26:12
◼
►
this is my content and I'm using AI to do something helpful
01:26:16
◼
►
that my human brain cannot do.
01:26:18
◼
►
But I don't feel sort of, well, it's always been--
01:26:21
◼
►
- You're not saying, hey GPT four, write me an article
01:26:25
◼
►
to introduce automation.
01:26:26
◼
►
- The creation aspects that I'm uncomfortable with.
01:26:28
◼
►
Now, technically speaking, the editing aspect
01:26:32
◼
►
is also powered by text that was lifted
01:26:35
◼
►
by other people's texts, but it's the illusion
01:26:39
◼
►
that you're not breaking with your own content, I think.
01:26:42
◼
►
So yeah, I'm giving into it now because there's like,
01:26:46
◼
►
what you just said, like, what's the point?
01:26:48
◼
►
This is our life now.
01:26:49
◼
►
So you either get on with the times or you can,
01:26:54
◼
►
or not, but you're gonna...
01:26:56
◼
►
- I mean, I could choose to be grumpy about this forever
01:26:59
◼
►
if I want to, but I just don't, you know me,
01:27:01
◼
►
I just don't like to be that way.
01:27:03
◼
►
- Plenty of blogs and podcasts by grumpy people.
01:27:06
◼
►
- And so I'm just like, I'm trying to find the things
01:27:10
◼
►
that are interesting to me that I feel are less
01:27:12
◼
►
ethically gray, you know?
01:27:16
◼
►
And this is one of them.
01:27:18
◼
►
Like, you know, I was thinking the other day, right,
01:27:20
◼
►
you know that whisper model?
01:27:21
◼
►
We're definitely all in there, like 100%.
01:27:23
◼
►
Like they trained that on podcasts. Like that's where they got that.
01:27:26
◼
►
I mean, I can tell you that I gave it the whole catalog of app stories personally.
01:27:31
◼
►
No, but like the model before you even try to like,
01:27:33
◼
►
that's I don't know if the information you give to it trains the model further.
01:27:36
◼
►
Like I don't know the answer to that, but like the model that they made,
01:27:40
◼
►
the OpenAI made 100% they used.
01:27:44
◼
►
Like every single podcast that could get their hands on. Cause why not?
01:27:47
◼
►
It's like free and available contents. Like easy.
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It is time, my friends, for something I'm calling
01:30:35
◼
►
Picking an Heir to the Throne.
01:30:39
◼
►
I don't think I'm going anywhere, but you never know.
01:30:44
◼
►
What is happening?
01:30:45
◼
►
What are we talking about?
01:30:46
◼
►
- Are you dying?
01:30:46
◼
►
- I don't think so.
01:30:47
◼
►
But you know, I feel like I've taken on the mantle
01:30:50
◼
►
of Apple historian.
01:30:52
◼
►
- And I wanna know which of the two of you
01:30:55
◼
►
would be an heir once I retire
01:30:59
◼
►
or chat GPT comes for me or whatever.
01:31:02
◼
►
- Are you trying to do a quiz but not call it a quiz?
01:31:05
◼
►
Turns out quiz was trademarked.
01:31:08
◼
►
- Oh my God.
01:31:08
◼
►
- And so I couldn't do it.
01:31:10
◼
►
So I have 10 questions.
01:31:11
◼
►
- This is intellectual property theft.
01:31:13
◼
►
- I have 10 questions.
01:31:14
◼
►
Not again, not from you!
01:31:16
◼
►
This is IP theft.
01:31:18
◼
►
10 questions.
01:31:20
◼
►
Hang on a second, hang on a second.
01:31:23
◼
►
I kinda need more wine.
01:31:24
◼
►
No, no, I wanna test...
01:31:25
◼
►
Wait, have you been drinking?
01:31:26
◼
►
Yeah, he started drinking wine, it's like a whole thing.
01:31:29
◼
►
I wanna potentially put something interesting into this.
01:31:34
◼
►
This is about trust.
01:31:36
◼
►
Oh god, you're gonna put points into this.
01:31:39
◼
►
I wanna see if Steven has trust in me.
01:31:42
◼
►
We can put this into the quizzes.
01:31:44
◼
►
and I play for you. Oh. But you gotta trust me. I did not deserve a quiz today.
01:31:53
◼
►
Nobody does. I think we keep it separate, but that is very interesting.
01:31:58
◼
►
Oh, see? He doesn't trust me. I wanted to see if he trusts me. Let's see if he learns
01:32:01
◼
►
to regret this. Well, I feel like that could be construed as like me
01:32:06
◼
►
and you ganging up on Federico, which this is not. But I had no idea. I think we all
01:32:10
◼
►
collusion. The ganging up could go in the other way though because I could also do really bad to
01:32:16
◼
►
tank your score. That's true. But never mind. Okay, so put it out there. How this works. There's
01:32:22
◼
►
10 questions. I'm going to award a point for whoever is closest, okay? Because some of these
01:32:29
◼
►
are extremely specific. And then there is a bonus round. There's enough points available in the
01:32:34
◼
►
bonus round that it's all up for grabs.
01:32:38
◼
►
I hate games like that.
01:32:40
◼
►
No, don't do that.
01:32:42
◼
►
I hate games like that.
01:32:43
◼
►
When it's like the whole point of doing the quiz doesn't make any point because you just
01:32:47
◼
►
get the last question.
01:32:49
◼
►
This is how you beat me in the last founders quiz and I continue to find it as a disrespect
01:32:53
◼
►
from Kathy to me.
01:32:55
◼
►
Well, I mean, we all know what part of the organization Kathy's in.
01:32:58
◼
►
So collusion.
01:33:00
◼
►
So you will get a point that forever is closest no half points or anything
01:33:05
◼
►
And then the bonus round which we'll get to
01:33:08
◼
►
You could you could you could do pretty poorly in the main quiz and walk away with it
01:33:12
◼
►
If you do well in the bonus round, so ten questions, okay
01:33:16
◼
►
They are this time all hardware related and how how are we doing this?
01:33:22
◼
►
Because you asked us to have a pen and paper. So like that's for the bonus round. Oh
01:33:26
◼
►
So there is an inherent
01:33:30
◼
►
Trustworthiness in these quizzes that say that I asked a question and Federico answers it first
01:33:35
◼
►
Mike you could change your answer based on what Federico said now
01:33:38
◼
►
I'm gonna alternate between the two of you to help balance that out, but there is a level of trust
01:33:42
◼
►
I think at this point we all understand how podcast quizzes work. You know what I mean? Yeah. Are you ready? Oh, I'm ready
01:33:47
◼
►
Hmm Federico you were up first
01:33:49
◼
►
You of course we both get to answer but you get to answer first on this one
01:33:53
◼
►
What year was the Intel transition announced?
01:33:59
◼
►
2003 okay Mike
01:34:06
◼
►
So Mike gets the point I got an Intel iMac for my 18th birthday
01:34:11
◼
►
So that was how I tried to rough that one out. I will have proof URLs in the show notes
01:34:16
◼
►
So there are no consequences for losing this game, right?
01:34:19
◼
►
Loser is shame shame. It's okay eternal shame
01:34:24
◼
►
No, I think there's a reverse, right?
01:34:26
◼
►
'Cause he said it was, what did you call it?
01:34:28
◼
►
The heir to the throne?
01:34:29
◼
►
So the winner inherits Steven's backup.
01:34:33
◼
►
Devin think thing, I guess.
01:34:35
◼
►
So, hope you got a big SSD handy.
01:34:40
◼
►
All right, so Mike gets the point there.
01:34:43
◼
►
Mike, you were first on the next question.
01:34:45
◼
►
Name the first two Macs to use Intel processors.
01:34:48
◼
►
iMac and MacBook.
01:34:50
◼
►
Okay, I'm gonna go with,
01:34:52
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm gonna go with iMac and MacBook too.
01:34:55
◼
►
- So you're equally wrong.
01:34:57
◼
►
The iMac and the MacBook Pro.
01:35:00
◼
►
- Wow. - Wow, okay.
01:35:01
◼
►
- I'm gonna call that a draw.
01:35:02
◼
►
No points awarded.
01:35:03
◼
►
Question number three, Federico, you're up first.
01:35:07
◼
►
What does B-Y-O-D-K-M mean?
01:35:12
◼
►
- Yeah, please remember, remind me the acronym again,
01:35:16
◼
►
bring your own, what are the other letters?
01:35:21
◼
►
- Display keyboard and mouse.
01:35:24
◼
►
- Yeah, bring your own display keyboard and mouse.
01:35:27
◼
►
- Very good.
01:35:28
◼
►
I came across a blog post that's titled,
01:35:32
◼
►
to BYODKM or not to BYODKM, which made me laugh.
01:35:37
◼
►
- That's good.
01:35:38
◼
►
- Mike, what was the shortest lived iPad model
01:35:42
◼
►
and how long was it on sale?
01:35:44
◼
►
- The, oh my God.
01:35:49
◼
►
I know which one it was, right?
01:35:51
◼
►
Like I can tell you things about it,
01:35:53
◼
►
but you know what I'm like, what was its model?
01:35:58
◼
►
It was iPad.
01:36:00
◼
►
- What is the question?
01:36:01
◼
►
What year was it?
01:36:02
◼
►
- What was the shortest lived iPad model
01:36:04
◼
►
and how long was it on sale?
01:36:06
◼
►
- I'm gonna say iPad 4, six months.
01:36:11
◼
►
- I think it was the third generation iPad
01:36:13
◼
►
that was replaced by the iPad 4.
01:36:17
◼
►
and it was on sale for about, yeah,
01:36:20
◼
►
I wanna say six to seven months.
01:36:24
◼
►
- Okay, I'm gonna give it to Federico.
01:36:25
◼
►
It is the third generation iPad.
01:36:28
◼
►
Apple called it the new iPad.
01:36:29
◼
►
It was the first retina one.
01:36:31
◼
►
- It was announced seven months after it went on sale,
01:36:35
◼
►
its replacement, and then it was replaced after eight months.
01:36:38
◼
►
So eight months on the market.
01:36:40
◼
►
- See, I thought the one that came after
01:36:42
◼
►
was called the new iPad.
01:36:44
◼
►
So the one that they got rid of was called the new iPad.
01:36:46
◼
►
The new iPad was the third one,
01:36:48
◼
►
which was replaced by the Lightning version of it,
01:36:50
◼
►
which is the iPad 4.
01:36:51
◼
►
And had a better GPU.
01:36:53
◼
►
That was the thing I knew,
01:36:54
◼
►
is that it had the 30 pin
01:36:56
◼
►
and it was replaced by the Lightning one.
01:36:58
◼
►
Yeah, that was a weird time.
01:37:00
◼
►
It was really weird.
01:37:01
◼
►
It was very strange.
01:37:02
◼
►
And I'm so happy they stopped calling it the new iPad.
01:37:05
◼
►
That was just the worst name.
01:37:08
◼
►
All right, you each have two points.
01:37:09
◼
►
You all are doing well.
01:37:11
◼
►
Federico, you're up first.
01:37:13
◼
►
How many models of Macintosh Performa did Apple sell in total?
01:37:17
◼
►
Are you asking like unit sales or model numbers?
01:37:24
◼
►
How many discrete models?
01:37:27
◼
►
Yes, good clarification. Thank you.
01:37:30
◼
►
Performa models? Like they were called Performa in the name?
01:37:36
◼
►
I don't know.
01:37:42
◼
►
This is closest wins?
01:37:47
◼
►
The correct answer is 70.
01:37:50
◼
►
Yeah, okay, cool.
01:37:51
◼
►
I really wanted to say 60,
01:37:53
◼
►
but I just figured I knew it was loads,
01:37:55
◼
►
so I wanted, but I didn't know how many,
01:37:57
◼
►
so when he went so low.
01:37:59
◼
►
70 according to every Mac.
01:38:00
◼
►
I looked at a couple of different sources.
01:38:02
◼
►
I saw it on every Mac, so 70.
01:38:04
◼
►
That was a stupid time.
01:38:05
◼
►
It really was, it was so dumb.
01:38:08
◼
►
That link is in the show notes.
01:38:09
◼
►
People can go look at it.
01:38:10
◼
►
- Like how many years were they selling those for?
01:38:13
◼
►
- Let me see.
01:38:14
◼
►
I mean like off the top of my head,
01:38:16
◼
►
like six or seven years?
01:38:18
◼
►
Maybe not even that long.
01:38:19
◼
►
- So they did like 10 devices a year.
01:38:22
◼
►
- 1992 through 1997, so five years.
01:38:27
◼
►
And that is inflated a little bit
01:38:28
◼
►
because if it came with like a bigger hard drive,
01:38:30
◼
►
it got a different model number,
01:38:32
◼
►
but that was the literal problem.
01:38:37
◼
►
Michael, the Macintosh 2FX could run you as much as $10,969 when it was new in 1990.
01:38:49
◼
►
How much is that in today's dollars?
01:38:50
◼
►
How much was it?
01:38:51
◼
►
Ten thousand.
01:38:52
◼
►
Ten thousand nine hundred sixty nine.
01:38:55
◼
►
Yep, it was a nice time.
01:38:58
◼
►
Yep, twenty two thousand dollars.
01:39:01
◼
►
How much is it again?
01:39:03
◼
►
Ten thousand nine hundred sixty nine dollars in 1990.
01:39:06
◼
►
I'm going to go with 31.
01:39:12
◼
►
Y'all basically split it, but Mike's a little bit closer.
01:39:17
◼
►
It's $25,248 today.
01:39:22
◼
►
When I said it, I thought I went too high, like way too high.
01:39:24
◼
►
Well, if you look at like the inflation history chart, a couple of years ago, you would have
01:39:28
◼
►
been too high, you know, but very expensive computer.
01:39:34
◼
►
Can you imagine?
01:39:35
◼
►
Thanks, macroeconomic headwinds.
01:39:36
◼
►
Yeah, can you imagine 20 a $25,000 Mac like you could just buy off the shelf not even like a that you that was like a
01:39:42
◼
►
Base spec you could order and then that was the starting price. Yeah, you could add on like extra memory and stuff Wow
01:39:50
◼
►
So much money man, and we complain now so much money. All right, so that goes to Mike
01:39:55
◼
►
Federico you go the score is
01:39:58
◼
►
Mike has for Federico has to okay, but we got a long way to go. So Federico
01:40:05
◼
►
how much did the original MacBook Air weigh and is it more or less than the
01:40:13
◼
►
current M2 MacBook Air? Less than a pound and it's less than today's model. I'll
01:40:20
◼
►
also say less than a pound because I have no idea and more than today's model.
01:40:27
◼
►
Okay so Federico wins it was three pounds the M2 weighs 2.7 so it was
01:40:35
◼
►
slightly more than the air. Y'all are both off but Federico is less wrong so okay Federico gets it.
01:40:40
◼
►
Wait how do we define less wrong? He said... I feel like we had a question earlier where we
01:40:48
◼
►
were split like that but hey I'm gonna let you go with it. I mean you know the crown is gonna do what
01:40:55
◼
►
it does. When run on four AAA batteries what was the expected battery life on the original Newton?
01:41:03
◼
►
Eight hours. No, that doesn't make sense. Wait, can you define that? What does that mean?
01:41:10
◼
►
Battery life.
01:41:11
◼
►
Screen, I believe from what I read, we're talking about screen on time.
01:41:18
◼
►
I feel like I'm so wrong. I have no idea.
01:41:20
◼
►
I'm gonna say three hours.
01:41:22
◼
►
Mike gets it. 14 hours.
01:41:27
◼
►
Wow, Newton, good job.
01:41:29
◼
►
Also though, that thing chewed through batteries.
01:41:32
◼
►
Like that's the problem, right?
01:41:35
◼
►
Four AAA batteries!
01:41:37
◼
►
You would need four batteries at least every five days?
01:41:43
◼
►
They had a rechargeable option, but it was even worse.
01:41:46
◼
►
Still better than a Sega Game Gear.
01:41:48
◼
►
I mean, think about the time, right?
01:41:52
◼
►
Eventually they did get better, but yeah, I was shocked that it was only 14 hours.
01:41:56
◼
►
I guess it was like you had to just use rechargeable lithium ion batteries, right?
01:42:00
◼
►
If they even had them.
01:42:01
◼
►
I mean, Apple had a battery pack you could do,
01:42:03
◼
►
or you could use the triple A's.
01:42:05
◼
►
- Oh, they were triple A.
01:42:06
◼
►
- Triple A, yeah, the little ones.
01:42:11
◼
►
- What is the only Mac that isn't made anymore,
01:42:14
◼
►
but was never canceled?
01:42:18
◼
►
- Canceled as in popular culture, canceled?
01:42:21
◼
►
- However you want to interpret the question.
01:42:23
◼
►
It had some bad takes on Twitter and was canceled.
01:42:26
◼
►
- So a Mac that is no longer for sale?
01:42:31
◼
►
But it was never officially canceled?
01:42:35
◼
►
And it's the only--
01:42:37
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Well, it's the trashcan Mac Pro.
01:42:44
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►
The G4 Cube. Wow.
01:42:47
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►
Apple's press release said it was put on ice.
01:42:50
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►
I knew this.
01:42:51
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►
As soon as you said it, I remember the 20 max episode.
01:42:55
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►
I honestly thought you were both gonna get it,
01:42:56
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►
'cause I know Federico and I share a love for the Cube, so.
01:42:59
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►
I don't share that love. No, that's annoying. That is called PR.
01:43:04
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►
Didn't want Steve jobs get mad at them. So just put it on ice instead.
01:43:08
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►
So with one question left, Mike has five and Federico has three.
01:43:13
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►
Not that literally any of it matters because the bonus round is coming.
01:43:17
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►
Mike, you're up first.
01:43:18
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►
How many discrete models of iPhone have there been now?
01:43:23
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►
I am not counting color or storage capacity. So for instance,
01:43:29
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►
The iPhone is a model, the iPhone 3G is a model.
01:43:32
◼
►
So how many of those have there been?
01:43:37
◼
►
- Wait, you're asking like generations?
01:43:41
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►
Or are you also saying like Pro, Pro Max?
01:43:45
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►
What's the--
01:43:46
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►
- Pro and Pro Max would be two models.
01:43:48
◼
►
- Oh. - Whoa.
01:43:49
◼
►
- Can I re--
01:43:50
◼
►
- Yes, yes, I should have been more clear.
01:43:52
◼
►
Yes, you can re-guess.
01:43:53
◼
►
- Okay. - I'm sorry.
01:43:55
◼
►
This is my first time, I'm a first time quizzer.
01:43:57
◼
►
- It's complicated, right?
01:43:59
◼
►
- Question forming is really hard.
01:44:01
◼
►
Okay, so how many models of iPhone have there been,
01:44:06
◼
►
not including colors and storage,
01:44:08
◼
►
everything else is on the table, right?
01:44:14
◼
►
- Federico gets it almost exactly right,
01:44:16
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►
there have been 38.
01:44:17
◼
►
- Woo, that's a lot of iPhones.
01:44:20
◼
►
- Yeah, that number was way higher than I thought.
01:44:22
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm really happy that I got another chance
01:44:25
◼
►
for that, at least.
01:44:26
◼
►
- So, at the end of the regular quiz,
01:44:28
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►
Mike has five and Federico has four.
01:44:33
◼
►
So very close.
01:44:34
◼
►
You both have done well.
01:44:35
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►
So now I believe you each have something
01:44:38
◼
►
to write or type into.
01:44:39
◼
►
- Yep. - Yep.
01:44:41
◼
►
- Is there a preference for you there?
01:44:43
◼
►
- No, no, I just don't want y'all,
01:44:45
◼
►
I want you to do your thinking quietly for this one
01:44:48
◼
►
and then we will give our answers.
01:44:50
◼
►
- That's really good for a podcast.
01:44:51
◼
►
- Well, I'm gonna play hold music.
01:44:53
◼
►
- Excellent.
01:44:54
◼
►
- Before I thought about this, it won't be in real time.
01:44:57
◼
►
So I'm gonna give you 30 seconds to write down
01:45:02
◼
►
as many iMac G3 colors as you can.
01:45:06
◼
►
And I will count us in.
01:45:08
◼
►
Hey Siri, start a 30 second timer.
01:45:11
◼
►
All right, go.
01:45:11
◼
►
(upbeat music)
01:45:15
◼
►
All right, time's up.
01:45:22
◼
►
- So I have a question for you,
01:45:24
◼
►
which I wanted to ask before, but then the time started.
01:45:27
◼
►
Do you mean like how they called them? Yeah, the actual names. Okay, yeah, okay. Yeah, okay, cool.
01:45:33
◼
►
So Federico, you are coming up from behind, so I'm gonna let you go first.
01:45:38
◼
►
Okay, so I went with tangerine, bondi blue, flower power, red, gray, and green.
01:45:49
◼
►
So you get three for bondi, tangerine, and flower power.
01:45:54
◼
►
Okay. Alright. Mike? Bondi blue, tangerine, dalmatian, flower power, green, blueberry,
01:46:05
◼
►
graphite, red, yellow. Wow. So Mike, you get a point for bondi, tangerine, blueberry, graphite,
01:46:13
◼
►
and flower power. Wow. Dalmatian, not what? Blue dalmatian. Oh, get the hell out of here,
01:46:20
◼
►
So I know I know so I'll give you the full list
01:46:23
◼
►
Bondi strawberry tangerine grape lime blueberry. Those are the five flavors
01:46:29
◼
►
There's actually no yellow iMac g3 even though it was on our t-shirt back in the day
01:46:37
◼
►
Ruby like a dark red
01:46:39
◼
►
Sage which is a dark green
01:46:43
◼
►
flower power and
01:46:46
◼
►
So at the end of the quiz
01:46:49
◼
►
Mike has 10 points
01:46:51
◼
►
Federico has 7 well done boys
01:46:55
◼
►
Thank you. That was fun. Good. You're finally putting all that knowledge to good use you get to use Devon think Mike
01:47:01
◼
►
Yeah, I can't wait baby
01:47:04
◼
►
I'm gonna think so much. All right, so this may come back at some point if y'all I hope it does. Oh good good
01:47:10
◼
►
I hope you all enjoyed that. This feels like a quiz for grown-ups. My quiz is madness. This is very difficult very difficult
01:47:18
◼
►
It was a very different vibe. I like the vibe. The vibe here is a thinking. This is a thinking
01:47:23
◼
►
person's quiz. Mine's just like, what movies do people think you like?
01:47:29
◼
►
That's right, Danny.
01:47:31
◼
►
Yeah, I did. So I've been thinking about this for a little while and I did have an idea
01:47:37
◼
►
for a quiz I'm not going to do, so I'll share the idea. And it was like a twist on the passionate
01:47:41
◼
►
ones. And it was who of the two of you know me better? But then I thought I would be the
01:47:45
◼
►
real loser in that one.
01:47:46
◼
►
- I'll take that one.
01:47:48
◼
►
I'm gonna put that one in my quizzes list.
01:47:50
◼
►
Thanks very much.
01:47:51
◼
►
- Who loves Mike most?
01:47:55
◼
►
I never got to go on.
01:47:56
◼
►
- Yeah, the first question was gonna be,
01:47:58
◼
►
what's my real age?
01:47:59
◼
►
What is my real age?
01:48:08
◼
►
Well, I think that does it for this episode of Connected.
01:48:11
◼
►
If you wanna find links to all the stuff we spoke about,
01:48:14
◼
►
there's a lot of links today.
01:48:15
◼
►
check them out in your podcast player,
01:48:17
◼
►
or you can check them out on the web
01:48:18
◼
►
at relay.fm/connected/442.
01:48:23
◼
►
I have two things I'd like to draw your attention to.
01:48:25
◼
►
One is the submit feedback link.
01:48:27
◼
►
It's in both places.
01:48:29
◼
►
There you can share feedback or follow up with us.
01:48:33
◼
►
- Follow up.
01:48:34
◼
►
- Follow up.
01:48:35
◼
►
- Follow up.
01:48:36
◼
►
- Follow up up and away with us.
01:48:37
◼
►
We've been talking for a long time, okay?
01:48:41
◼
►
- True follow up.
01:48:45
◼
►
It's a lovely little form we've built there.
01:48:46
◼
►
You can even keep your feedback anonymous if you want.
01:48:49
◼
►
- My favorite is when people keep their feedback anonymous
01:48:52
◼
►
but put their email address in.
01:48:53
◼
►
For people that are doing that, I don't understand you.
01:48:55
◼
►
Like I don't know why people are doing that.
01:48:56
◼
►
- Those are the real hackers.
01:48:58
◼
►
You know, they're anonymous,
01:48:59
◼
►
but they still wanna be reached over email.
01:49:01
◼
►
- They don't want you to know their name,
01:49:03
◼
►
but they wanna give you a direct way to communicate.
01:49:06
◼
►
- I don't know your name,
01:49:07
◼
►
but your email address is johnsmith@gmail.com.
01:49:11
◼
►
- Generally, that happens quite a lot.
01:49:12
◼
►
- Yeah, it does.
01:49:13
◼
►
Email's not a required field in the form.
01:49:14
◼
►
For this very reason,
01:49:16
◼
►
we had this exact conversation internally.
01:49:18
◼
►
You can also, on the web and in your podcast player,
01:49:21
◼
►
sign up for Connected Pro.
01:49:23
◼
►
Connected Pro is a longer ad-free version of the show
01:49:27
◼
►
each and every week.
01:49:29
◼
►
It's a real fun time to go check that out.
01:49:32
◼
►
It's just $5 a month or $50 a year.
01:49:35
◼
►
You can find us all online.
01:49:37
◼
►
Federico is the editor-in-chief of maxstories.net,
01:49:40
◼
►
soon to be home of Automation April.
01:49:42
◼
►
You do not wanna miss that.
01:49:44
◼
►
be sure to be following along at Mac Stories.
01:49:46
◼
►
You can find Federico on Mastodon
01:49:49
◼
►
at mastodon.macstories.net, and he is Vitichi there.
01:49:54
◼
►
You can find Mike on a bunch of other shows
01:49:57
◼
►
here on Relay FM.
01:49:58
◼
►
He is also the co-founder of Cortex Brand.
01:50:02
◼
►
You can check that out on the web.
01:50:03
◼
►
And you can find Mike on Mastodon at mike.social as iMike.
01:50:08
◼
►
You can find me on Mac Power Users every Sunday afternoon
01:50:12
◼
►
here on Relay FM.
01:50:13
◼
►
I also write 512 pixels.net and I am ismh@eworld.social over on Mastodon.
01:50:20
◼
►
I'd like to thank our sponsors this week that made the show possible.
01:50:24
◼
►
Fitbaud, electric, Zocdoc, and Setapp.
01:50:28
◼
►
Until next week guys, say goodbye.
01:50:30
◼
►
Adios, El Chirio.