Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► So, today widgets.

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Oh.

00:00:03 ◼   ► (sighs)

00:00:03 ◼   ► (classical music)

00:00:06 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 16.

00:00:15 ◼   ► Today's episode of Connected is brought to you

00:00:18 ◼   ► by our friends at lynda.com, where you can instantly

00:00:20 ◼   ► stream thousands of courses created by industry experts.

00:00:23 ◼   ► For a 10-day free trial, visit lynda.com/connected.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Iconic, a fantastic book about Apple history and design and all of their fantastic products

00:00:33 ◼   ► and also by Hover, simplified domain management.

00:00:37 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and as always I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Hi Federico.

00:00:42 ◼   ► Oh hey Myke, how are you doing?

00:00:43 ◼   ► I am very well, how are you?

00:00:45 ◼   ► I'm doing good sir.

00:00:46 ◼   ► Did you hear the Italian flair that I put on your name today?

00:00:50 ◼   ► Yeah I know you've been exercising.

00:00:53 ◼   ► You're taking secret Italian classes in your spare time.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I don't know why honestly.

00:00:57 ◼   ► Well, I have an Italian vitamin supplement that I take every day.

00:01:01 ◼   ► It's full of olive oil.

00:01:05 ◼   ► I'm also joined by Steven Hackett.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Hi Steven!

00:01:09 ◼   ► No accent for me?

00:01:10 ◼   ► Uh, no.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Can you do a southern accent, Myke?

00:01:15 ◼   ► No.

00:01:16 ◼   ► That's weird because you're sound.

00:01:20 ◼   ► How it is, Steven.

00:01:22 ◼   ► Oh god.

00:01:23 ◼   ► How's that?

00:01:24 ◼   ► There's been a lot of conversation that you sound more American than you used to,

00:01:30 ◼   ► which is definitely true.

00:01:31 ◼   ► 100% true.

00:01:32 ◼   ► I don't know, how do you feel about that?

00:01:33 ◼   ► Is that weird?

00:01:34 ◼   ► Like, are you saddened?

00:01:35 ◼   ► No, I'm fine with it.

00:01:38 ◼   ► But there are some things you say that are the way I say them.

00:01:45 ◼   ► You said something the other day on another show, and it was the exact same inflection

00:01:48 ◼   ► that I do, which is a little Southern.

00:01:50 ◼   ► I'm like, "Oh, I've ruined…"

00:01:52 ◼   ► I feel guilty.

00:01:53 ◼   ► I feel guilty for Americanizing you.

00:01:56 ◼   ► And then you had Thanksgiving dinner, which is crazy.

00:01:59 ◼   ► So, Myke, this new accent of yours, do you only use it on the shows?

00:02:05 ◼   ► No.

00:02:06 ◼   ► Or is it like a real life new accent that you have and you're like, people are surprised?

00:02:11 ◼   ► No, this is my real voice now.

00:02:14 ◼   ► This is the voice that I have.

00:02:16 ◼   ► I talk this way.

00:02:18 ◼   ► I only try and enunciate a little clearer on the shows, but I do have a new voice.

00:02:23 ◼   ► I was going through some odd files the other day of shows and it's like just this weird

00:02:30 ◼   ► person.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Do you announce yourself to people in conversations like you do for each show?

00:02:35 ◼   ► Well, yeah.

00:02:36 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined today by my friends.

00:02:39 ◼   ► That's how I enter rooms.

00:02:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Hello, my name is Myke Hurley and I'm at the fridge.

00:02:47 ◼   ► This dinner is brought to you by Heinz Tomato Ketchup.

00:02:51 ◼   ► Wow.

00:02:52 ◼   ► That's how I live my life now.

00:02:55 ◼   ► I think your voice is also a little deeper, like a little...

00:02:58 ◼   ► A little more gravelly.

00:03:00 ◼   ► A little more gravelly.

00:03:01 ◼   ► I think that just comes from talking so much.

00:03:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:05 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:06 ◼   ► I don't know, you don't smoke, so I guess it's just the podcasting.

00:03:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Don't do podcast, kids.

00:03:13 ◼   ► It'll ruin your voice.

00:03:15 ◼   ► It's true.

00:03:17 ◼   ► You need like a patch when you're not podcasting to get the fix.

00:03:20 ◼   ► yeah well that's when I listen to podcasts make sure it's a dynamic patch

00:03:24 ◼   ► though you need a Skype patch they were both excellent jokes and it's just a

00:03:32 ◼   ► shame that neither of you allowed each other to to fully express them so that's

00:03:37 ◼   ► just how it is thanks for the clarification Myke no worries no I just

00:03:42 ◼   ► want you to both know that I appreciate your comedy you do yeah that's so I'm

00:03:47 ◼   ► I'm glad to hear that.

00:03:49 ◼   ► You know, because I mean, last week,

00:03:51 ◼   ► we didn't do comedy.

00:03:54 ◼   ► - We did. - No.

00:03:56 ◼   ► No, we didn't, did we?

00:03:58 ◼   ► We didn't do any of that.

00:04:00 ◼   ► Well, are we migrating into a segment right now?

00:04:05 ◼   ► - I think we're moving towards a follow-up.

00:04:09 ◼   ► - Follow-up.

00:04:12 ◼   ► - Oh, whoa, it's Myke.

00:04:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:04:16 ◼   ► That was amazing.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Anytime.

00:04:19 ◼   ► It's like it came from space.

00:04:22 ◼   ► Came from Mars, baby.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:25 ◼   ► We're going to Mars.

00:04:26 ◼   ► Humanity is going to Mars, guys.

00:04:28 ◼   ► Apparently so.

00:04:29 ◼   ► Apparently so.

00:04:30 ◼   ► That was a surprise, right?

00:04:32 ◼   ► I mean, not if you follow all the NASA blogs.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Some people might.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Like space nerds, like you.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Wow.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Is Steven a space nerd?

00:04:41 ◼   ► Beside the OS X nerd?

00:04:44 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:45 ◼   ► He likes old space like he likes old Max.

00:04:48 ◼   ► - It's true, yeah, the Apollo was awesome.

00:04:50 ◼   ► Space shuttle was dumb.

00:04:52 ◼   ► Can I have a space podcast on the network?

00:04:54 ◼   ► Oh, I don't need permission.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I'm gonna do a space podcast.

00:04:57 ◼   ► Let's do follow up.

00:04:58 ◼   ► So apparently there are apps that can make GIFs

00:05:01 ◼   ► with burst photos.

00:05:02 ◼   ► - No.

00:05:03 ◼   ► - Which is something that we said was not true.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - No, basically.

00:05:07 ◼   ► So I wrote these notes myself.

00:05:12 ◼   ► I didn't mean to write them for you, I apologize.

00:05:14 ◼   ► I shouldn't have let you start this.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Basically, this is on the subject of apps

00:05:18 ◼   ► that can make GIFs with burst photos,

00:05:20 ◼   ► which is something I was talking about last week.

00:05:22 ◼   ► - But can't take existing burst and create GIFs.

00:05:24 ◼   ► This is the most confusing outline I've ever seen.

00:05:26 ◼   ► - It's not written for you, it's written for me.

00:05:28 ◼   ► So, I was talking about that last week,

00:05:31 ◼   ► but there isn't there, 'cause there is an API that can do it.

00:05:33 ◼   ► I have had this verified by smart people.

00:05:36 ◼   ► I've spoken to smart people this week,

00:05:37 ◼   ► and they have told me that this is definitely true.

00:05:39 ◼   ► So people have been sending me in this week,

00:05:43 ◼   ► apps that they believe solve the problem that I am trying to,

00:05:47 ◼   ► that I would like to be solved, but they don't.

00:05:49 ◼   ► So there's two apps that have been sent in to me,

00:05:52 ◼   ► one by Patrick Welker, sorry, called Giffer Pro,

00:05:55 ◼   ► which is one of the worst looking applications

00:05:57 ◼   ► I've ever seen.

00:05:58 ◼   ► And it's horrible, just look at the link.

00:06:02 ◼   ► And Camoji, which was sent into us by a designer

00:06:05 ◼   ► of everything, Relay FM, Frank Towers.

00:06:08 ◼   ► Basically what these apps both do is they allow you

00:06:10 ◼   ► to take either burst photos in the app and turn them into GIFs, or video and turn them

00:06:15 ◼   ► into GIFs. None of these apps allow you to take existing burst photos and turn those

00:06:21 ◼   ► into GIFs. That's what I'm talking about.

00:06:23 ◼   ► So the problem is that you have many existing burst photos?

00:06:26 ◼   ► No, it's just if I take a burst photo, I'm very rarely taking it for the purpose to make

00:06:32 ◼   ► a GIF out of it, I'm taking it for a reason, and then later then want to make it into a

00:06:36 ◼   ► GIF. I don't really like apps like...

00:06:39 ◼   ► just in general. I don't like apps. I preferred them when they were programs and...

00:06:45 ◼   ► Hey! I see what you did.

00:06:48 ◼   ► No worries. I don't like apps that work as... what am I saying?

00:06:55 ◼   ► Myke, what is it that you don't like exactly?

00:06:59 ◼   ► So let's say it's something to do with a photo. I don't like it when you have to do everything in that one app.

00:07:07 ◼   ► Like I like to be able to take the output of the camera app

00:07:11 ◼   ► and turn that into the thing.

00:07:12 ◼   ► So it's not like, oh, I wanna take this photo

00:07:15 ◼   ► and make it a GIF.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Let me go and find that app and open that app.

00:07:18 ◼   ► I just wanna take what the camera app gives me

00:07:20 ◼   ► and turn that into a thing.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Am I making any sense?

00:07:24 ◼   ► - It kinda makes sense, yeah.

00:07:26 ◼   ► - It's like I prefer to not be constrained

00:07:30 ◼   ► just by that one app and what that can do.

00:07:33 ◼   ► - Yeah, because it means you can just use

00:07:34 ◼   ► the Apple camera app and then, you know,

00:07:36 ◼   ► just send all these photos to different utilities,

00:07:39 ◼   ► depending on kind of what you want to make.

00:07:42 ◼   ► - That is exactly it.

00:07:43 ◼   ► Yeah. - Yeah.

00:07:43 ◼   ► - So it's not relying on me,

00:07:46 ◼   ► like sandboxing it into that one application.

00:07:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I also have a problem

00:07:52 ◼   ► with all these like specialized camera apps,

00:07:55 ◼   ► because I know that I'm going to use

00:07:57 ◼   ► the Apple camera app anyway, you know?

00:07:59 ◼   ► Especially because of the control center shortcut.

00:08:02 ◼   ► I don't keep the camera icon on my home screen,

00:08:06 ◼   ► because I have the control center.

00:08:10 ◼   ► Also, kind of related to burst photos,

00:08:15 ◼   ► I think I mentioned this before.

00:08:17 ◼   ► I would love to have a burst mode for screenshots on iOS

00:08:21 ◼   ► just to make--

00:08:22 ◼   ► there is?

00:08:24 ◼   ► Yes.

00:08:24 ◼   ► Screenshots?

00:08:25 ◼   ► Yeah, you have to use Google+, which

00:08:28 ◼   ► your response to that tweet was really funny.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Google+ has some sort of app or feature.

00:08:36 ◼   ► When you put photos into Google+, you can select a bunch of them and...

00:08:40 ◼   ► Oh yeah, but my problem is that I cannot take burst screenshots to begin with.

00:08:47 ◼   ► Like imagine if you could...

00:08:50 ◼   ► It's gotta be fast, just...

00:08:51 ◼   ► You need a friend to come help you because your friend's too big.

00:08:58 ◼   ► The screenshot friend, yeah.

00:09:00 ◼   ► Also, the ability to record screencasts on iOS, like you can with QuickTime on the Mac.

00:09:07 ◼   ► And now people will say, "Why don't you just use the Mac to take screencast?"

00:09:10 ◼   ► Yeah, okay, yeah, whatever.

00:09:12 ◼   ► I'm gonna get this people.

00:09:14 ◼   ► Do you wanna know something weird about that?

00:09:16 ◼   ► You know that the video thing, I don't know if you knew this Federico, and I hope that

00:09:21 ◼   ► you don't know it so I can give you a piece of information.

00:09:24 ◼   ► So you know that when you're using QuickTime to record the screencast, and it does the

00:09:30 ◼   ► thing where it cleans up the status bar for you.

00:09:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:09:33 ◼   ► Did you know it actually does it on the device, not just--

00:09:35 ◼   ► Yes, it's done in real time.

00:09:36 ◼   ► It's rendered on iOS.

00:09:38 ◼   ► Which is so weird, isn't it?

00:09:40 ◼   ► It's awesome.

00:09:40 ◼   ► Oh, no, it's great that it does it.

00:09:42 ◼   ► But I plugged it in, and I was like, oh, it

00:09:43 ◼   ► does it on my device, too.

00:09:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a private API that I know a few developers have

00:09:48 ◼   ► tried to make apps with that.

00:09:52 ◼   ► And of course, you know how that ends when you

00:09:55 ◼   ► try to do private Apple stuff.

00:09:57 ◼   ► There's a button in your app.

00:09:58 ◼   ► Remove it.

00:09:59 ◼   ► Okay, we'll get to that later.

00:10:00 ◼   ► - Spoiler alert.

00:10:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, I would love to have quick time on iOS.

00:10:07 ◼   ► Please don't be upset, Myke.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Don't be upset.

00:10:10 ◼   ► I won't use it for podcasts.

00:10:12 ◼   ► - You can have all of your apps on iOS.

00:10:14 ◼   ► You just can't plug your devices in.

00:10:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, but you don't like apps, right?

00:10:17 ◼   ► - What you really need, you need a USB port on your iPad.

00:10:21 ◼   ► - Not again, okay, okay, yeah, okay.

00:10:24 ◼   ► - SD card slot or serial port.

00:10:27 ◼   ► - They should just have four home buttons,

00:10:28 ◼   ► like one on every, do you remember that when that was a thing?

00:10:30 ◼   ► Yeah, that was.

00:10:31 ◼   ► The iPad's gonna get two home buttons.

00:10:33 ◼   ► No, it's not.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Yeah, no, it's really, it's really not.

00:10:36 ◼   ► I do.

00:10:37 ◼   ► I don't know if you guys do this, but I have lots of problems when I use my iPad

00:10:44 ◼   ► mini now because the power button is not where it is on my phone and I use my

00:10:48 ◼   ► phone a lot more, like I've already so quickly adjusted to the button layout on

00:10:53 ◼   ► the phone that the iPad is just broken.

00:10:56 ◼   ► I'm like, where's the button?

00:10:57 ◼   ► I can't find the button.

00:10:58 ◼   ► like it's very confusing.

00:10:59 ◼   ► - I struggle to either adjust the volume

00:11:01 ◼   ► or lock my phone with one hand still though.

00:11:04 ◼   ► Like I press both of them.

00:11:05 ◼   ► - You bought the wrong phone.

00:11:06 ◼   ► - Nope, nope.

00:11:07 ◼   ► 'Cause the button I have is sort of the same.

00:11:09 ◼   ► - You guys want a quick teachy tip

00:11:10 ◼   ► about adjusting to different devices?

00:11:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:11:16 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:11:16 ◼   ► - Okay, so.

00:11:17 ◼   ► - Don't know why I'm nervous.

00:11:18 ◼   ► - I am too though.

00:11:20 ◼   ► - Okay, so here's my tip this week.

00:11:22 ◼   ► Because I'm using the iPad in landscape mode,

00:11:25 ◼   ► when I'm at my desk and I use a Bluetooth keyboard to type.

00:11:29 ◼   ► What I did is I set up my, in the touch ID settings,

00:11:35 ◼   ► I set up my fingerprint in the,

00:11:38 ◼   ► like in a different orientation so that when I'm at my desk,

00:11:41 ◼   ► I can just hold my finger and I don't have to rotate it

00:11:44 ◼   ► to unlock with touch ID.

00:11:45 ◼   ► So it kind of works even if you don't set up

00:11:48 ◼   ► a different fingerprint in the settings,

00:11:50 ◼   ► but if you do, it's faster

00:11:52 ◼   ► because it doesn't have to like think about it.

00:11:55 ◼   ► So yeah.

00:11:56 ◼   ► - So can I tell you that your tip is dumb?

00:11:59 ◼   ► - But why is it dumb?

00:11:59 ◼   ► - Because on the Touch ID page, Apple says,

00:12:02 ◼   ► I'm gonna quote them,

00:12:04 ◼   ► place your finger on the home button

00:12:07 ◼   ► and just like that your iPhone unlocks.

00:12:09 ◼   ► Touch ID is capable of 360 degree readability,

00:12:12 ◼   ► which means no matter what orientation,

00:12:14 ◼   ► your iPhone reads your fingerprint and knows who you are.

00:12:17 ◼   ► - Okay, I'm gonna test this live on the show.

00:12:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, so try your thumb upside down.

00:12:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, it works, yeah.

00:12:22 ◼   ► - Totally works.

00:12:23 ◼   ► For me after a while it becomes like slow.

00:12:26 ◼   ► I can sell that it's- - It's 'cause you have pasta

00:12:27 ◼   ► in your hands.

00:12:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, you're sweating too much.

00:12:29 ◼   ► - I don't have pasta.

00:12:30 ◼   ► I'm not sweating, I perfectly stable.

00:12:33 ◼   ► - I know why it is.

00:12:33 ◼   ► - And normal hands.

00:12:36 ◼   ► - It's 'cause you're working from the hot tub.

00:12:38 ◼   ► - No, not really.

00:12:40 ◼   ► - Have you ever tried to unlock your phone

00:12:41 ◼   ► after taking a shower?

00:12:42 ◼   ► It doesn't work.

00:12:43 ◼   ► - I don't care what the Apple documentation says.

00:12:45 ◼   ► You set up a second fingerprint for-

00:12:47 ◼   ► - How dare you, sir.

00:12:48 ◼   ► - For iPad landscape usage, you're gonna thank me.

00:12:52 ◼   ► This is like when people told me,

00:12:53 ◼   ► You don't have to set manual brightness and then you know battery life was better for many people

00:12:59 ◼   ► So my iPad doesn't have touch ID because Myke talked me out of it. I don't have manual brightness because

00:13:04 ◼   ► So we're gonna do this other thing I have a serious piece of follow-up

00:13:13 ◼   ► Real quickly. So of all the feedback that I got for the Twitter

00:13:21 ◼   ► monitoring installed apps thing

00:13:23 ◼   ► that I said it wasn't a big deal and you know, I still think that of all the the stuff that companies can can

00:13:31 ◼   ► Monitor this is not a big deal in my opinion still I got a lot of feedback and of all the feedback that I got

00:13:38 ◼   ► the best

00:13:41 ◼   ► Country argument to my to my point

00:13:43 ◼   ► From a listener whose name I cannot remember

00:13:47 ◼   ► basically, I'm sorry, I don't remember your name, it's not personal,

00:13:52 ◼   ► basically said, what if I keep on my device apps that are related to my sexual orientation,

00:14:01 ◼   ► and I don't want to tell anyone else yet?

00:14:05 ◼   ► That's a great idea.

00:14:06 ◼   ► That's a great point, and I should have thought of that.

00:14:10 ◼   ► And of all the feedback that I got, like, yeah, I think it's a big deal,

00:14:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think it's a big deal because such and such.

00:14:18 ◼   ► This is the best practical and I guess fair point.

00:14:22 ◼   ► So thanks for sending it over Twitter.

00:14:25 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:26 ◼   ► That is a very good point.

00:14:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:14:29 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:30 ◼   ► It's like the Target thing, right?

00:14:32 ◼   ► Where Target sent what they call or sent an advertisement or something about diapers and

00:14:36 ◼   ► like they didn't know or like their parents didn't know they were pregnant or something.

00:14:40 ◼   ► thing where a company could know more than people is, well it's probably already true

00:14:45 ◼   ► with a bunch of companies, but it's sort of a strange situation to think about.

00:14:49 ◼   ► And it's a really good point.

00:14:51 ◼   ► And it's not that Twitter is like publishing this, but it's the fact that they know and

00:14:56 ◼   ► that you might see ads based on that information.

00:15:02 ◼   ► I think Myke, I think you said it last week, the idea that this is not information I'm

00:15:06 ◼   ► putting into the system, this is information the app is getting on its own, like a lot

00:15:10 ◼   ► of ramifications, and I'm sure there are even more that we haven't thought about.

00:15:13 ◼   ► But it's good.

00:15:16 ◼   ► Good feedback.

00:15:17 ◼   ► We've basically called an amnesty on this topic, because it's been a lot of discussion

00:15:27 ◼   ► aimed at us this week about it.

00:15:30 ◼   ► A lot of people agree with me, a lot of people agree with Federico, and me and Federico don't

00:15:35 ◼   ► talk anymore because of it. So we're just, you know, it is what it is.

00:15:43 ◼   ► This is just one of those things that we differ in opinion on and I think that there are valid

00:15:46 ◼   ► arguments on both sides. And I told Federico privately, and I'm gonna say it on the show,

00:15:53 ◼   ► when he posts his Twitter article, I am going to try and just use the Twitter app for as

00:15:59 ◼   ► long as I possibly can and see how far I go.

00:16:02 ◼   ► So can I say something about the Twitter app itself and not the politics?

00:16:08 ◼   ► So I feel the same way that I wanted to understand the app itself.

00:16:13 ◼   ► So I have been using it a good bit the last couple days.

00:16:18 ◼   ► And my fundamental problem with it is that I just find it confusing coming from Tweetbot

00:16:23 ◼   ► where a tweet can be in several locations and like the replies and that sort of stuff

00:16:28 ◼   ► I think is, it's not so much about the UI itself, but that it's just, there's a lot

00:16:36 ◼   ► going on and it can be disorienting at times of where I am in the timeline and what's going

00:16:40 ◼   ► on.

00:16:41 ◼   ► I have no idea what earns the gray line and what doesn't earn the gray line.

00:16:46 ◼   ► It's just a lot of elements going on that I think they need to simplify.

00:16:48 ◼   ► But if you like your tweets so much, why don't you want to see them more?

00:16:54 ◼   ► That's the thinking, right?

00:16:56 ◼   ► I guess.

00:16:57 ◼   ► It's like Facebook, right?

00:16:59 ◼   ► No one actually sees the real Facebook timeline.

00:17:00 ◼   ► It's about how they portray it.

00:17:03 ◼   ► And I understand they're trying to make the content more interesting.

00:17:05 ◼   ► And there's a lot of good stuff in the Twitter app.

00:17:07 ◼   ► I really like the...

00:17:09 ◼   ► What is it?

00:17:10 ◼   ► What's the screen name?

00:17:11 ◼   ► Where you can see other people's favorite and...

00:17:14 ◼   ► Activity.

00:17:15 ◼   ► Yeah, that's really pretty neat.

00:17:18 ◼   ► And it's a good way to...

00:17:21 ◼   ► I don't have notifications on for favorites or anything, but it's nice to know how a tweet

00:17:26 ◼   ► performs. Oh God, I hate myself. But, um, it's, there's good stuff in there. I just

00:17:31 ◼   ► find it like sort of overwhelming. I don't even know what's happening.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Maybe I'm just old.

00:17:37 ◼   ► Well, I'm a, if, uh, if it matters, I'm already at, uh, 10,000 words and I don't

00:17:46 ◼   ► think I'm halfway through the article.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I can't read that. Myke can't read that.

00:17:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I know. Myke, you can, you can, uh, skip the sections.

00:17:54 ◼   ► That's longer than my review of Yosemite.

00:17:56 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:17:57 ◼   ► Kij, can you just call me on that day and just read it to me?

00:18:01 ◼   ► With my voice?

00:18:02 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:03 ◼   ► OK.

00:18:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:18:05 ◼   ► We'll be like an hour on Skype.

00:18:07 ◼   ► That's fine.

00:18:08 ◼   ► And I will read you my article about Twitter.

00:18:11 ◼   ► We can make it a visa.

00:18:12 ◼   ► It's not only about the Twitter app, so this will be interesting.

00:18:16 ◼   ► This is new for me.

00:18:18 ◼   ► I'm pretty excited.

00:18:20 ◼   ► I thought I will likely spend a weekend taking screenshots, which is going to be fun.

00:18:27 ◼   ► I'm really excited.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Oh, this is going to be one of those weekends where you send us text messages asking us

00:18:33 ◼   ► to do things for you, isn't it?

00:18:34 ◼   ► Yeah, like send me fake messages and stuff.

00:18:38 ◼   ► I enjoy those though.

00:18:40 ◼   ► I do enjoy trying to think of new things to send you, to entertain the Max Stories audience.

00:18:46 ◼   ► That's what I'm about.

00:18:47 ◼   ► I'm an entertainer.

00:18:48 ◼   ► Oh, yeah?

00:18:49 ◼   ► professional podcasters. I was writing something the other day I can't remember

00:18:56 ◼   ► what it was and I wanted to write that instead. It should be on your

00:19:03 ◼   ► business card. I think I can't remember what it was but it was something like

00:19:07 ◼   ► that and I was like no I want to say podcasters oh that was it I was I had an

00:19:11 ◼   ► idea for for a blog post about about being a professional podcaster and I

00:19:17 ◼   ► wanted to call it professional blogbusters. You wanted to publish a blog post? I wanted to, yeah.

00:19:21 ◼   ► But what happened? I calmed down. You should have issued a bunch of

00:19:30 ◼   ► posits tweets. I should have done actually. I had lots of posits that day.

00:19:37 ◼   ► One of them was about lynda.com who are an easy and affordable way to help

00:19:41 ◼   ► individuals and organizations learn. With lynda.com you get access to a growing

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00:19:57 ◼   ► something you've always wanted to know or help you learn something totally new.

00:20:01 ◼   ► Lender works directly with experts in the fields that the videos and the

00:20:05 ◼   ► subjects are about. They work with people that create hardware and software so

00:20:09 ◼   ► they can give you the best training possible and they work with people that

00:20:13 ◼   ► create things like they work with David Allen on a GTD course. I just think that one's so

00:20:18 ◼   ► awesome like it's like the perfect person. Their courses are broken down

00:20:22 ◼   ► into bite-sized chunks. This allows you to jump in and out at your own pace and

00:20:25 ◼   ► Linda allow you to create your own playlist so you can build a course

00:20:30 ◼   ► schedule that meets your own personal needs. They have great iPhone, iPad and

00:20:35 ◼   ► Android apps so you can watch videos when you're on the go. If you get a

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00:20:43 ◼   ► on the plane or something. But if you have an internet connection on the

00:20:46 ◼   ► standard plan which is $25 a month for unlimited all you can access to

00:20:50 ◼   ► Lindas courses with those apps you'll be able to just stream the stuff you can

00:20:54 ◼   ► watch them on the bus you can watch them when you're at home whether you're on

00:20:56 ◼   ► Wi-Fi or LTE or something like that. Lindas courses are extremely varied and

00:21:03 ◼   ► they cover so many different types of hardware software computer stuff and

00:21:07 ◼   ► it's not all computer stuff do they have like if maybe you want to learn how to

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00:21:37 ◼   ► you'll see just a selection of the hundreds of thousands of videos they have and you'll

00:21:42 ◼   ► also get yourself a special extended 10 day free trial just for listeners of this show.

00:21:48 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Linda for the continued support of Connected and helping us out at

00:21:53 ◼   ► Relay FM.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Michael, you spent Monday, was it Monday?

00:22:01 ◼   ► It was Monday, yeah.

00:22:02 ◼   ► Doing a thing.

00:22:04 ◼   ► What did you do on Monday?

00:22:06 ◼   ► On Monday I was at the Apple Store Regent Street moderating, well I don't know why they

00:22:12 ◼   ► call it moderating because it was just one person.

00:22:14 ◼   ► I was interviewing Neil McFarland who is the director of games for US2Games who you may

00:22:20 ◼   ► know as the developers of Monument Valley.

00:22:23 ◼   ► So I sat down with Neil and we spoke for about 40 minutes on video in the Apple Store Regent

00:22:30 ◼   ► Street.

00:22:31 ◼   ► Wait, wait, wait, there's a video?

00:22:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:22:34 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, it's in full HD, baby.

00:22:37 ◼   ► I've had some very concerned people tweeting me today.

00:22:41 ◼   ► It's not normal for them to see me in video,

00:22:44 ◼   ► but now you can see me on video,

00:22:45 ◼   ► if that's what you really want to do.

00:22:46 ◼   ► - Let me take a look.

00:22:47 ◼   ► - I got all spruced up.

00:22:48 ◼   ► I was all spruced up.

00:22:51 ◼   ► Thank you, Steven, for calling me handsome.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I appreciate that.

00:22:53 ◼   ► It was a really interesting interview.

00:22:59 ◼   ► It was a very different event.

00:23:00 ◼   ► It was a great day,

00:23:00 ◼   ► 'cause we were talking about the red stuff, you know?

00:23:04 ◼   ► And it was actually World AIDS Day on Monday,

00:23:07 ◼   ► so when I was there.

00:23:08 ◼   ► And it was a very, very enjoyable experience.

00:23:11 ◼   ► It was very different.

00:23:12 ◼   ► There was a small audience.

00:23:13 ◼   ► I had to do the standard interview.

00:23:15 ◼   ► There's a Q&A part.

00:23:16 ◼   ► There was only one question in the Q&A,

00:23:18 ◼   ► so I had to come up with new questions

00:23:20 ◼   ► just off the top of my head to ask, which was great.

00:23:24 ◼   ► And it was a great honor.

00:23:26 ◼   ► I met some great people that night, and I was very...

00:23:29 ◼   ► It felt fantastic to be in that environment

00:23:33 ◼   ► and do something like that and now it's available on the iTunes store

00:23:36 ◼   ► and I got a little plug for relay FM in it at the start as well

00:23:40 ◼   ► I'm trying to find your face in the video

00:23:44 ◼   ► It's after like 30 or 40 seconds

00:23:47 ◼   ► they throw to me it right at the start

00:23:49 ◼   ► Oh I'm looking at your face now

00:23:51 ◼   ► There you go

00:23:52 ◼   ► Your face is moving, you're talking

00:23:54 ◼   ► You're very handsome Myke

00:23:55 ◼   ► Thank you, thank you very much

00:23:57 ◼   ► Nice shirt man

00:23:58 ◼   ► I dressed up

00:24:00 ◼   ► I got my herded, I got my bearded

00:24:02 ◼   ► So strange to see your face, like with your lips moving.

00:24:07 ◼   ► Oh yeah, because I guess like because me and you had never met before.

00:24:09 ◼   ► Because for me, like for me, you are your profile picture and your voice.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:17 ◼   ► And the picture moving is kind of weird, you know?

00:24:22 ◼   ► So this is how people felt when they saw TV for the first time.

00:24:25 ◼   ► So Myke, as much as you can say, how did this...

00:24:32 ◼   ► Is that a pebble, Myke? Sorry, Stephen, is that a pebble?

00:24:34 ◼   ► Yeah, pebble steel. You know I'm a pebble user, that's not a secret.

00:24:37 ◼   ► Mine is charging right now because it's dead.

00:24:41 ◼   ► Anyways, Myke, how did this come about?

00:24:43 ◼   ► Well, originally it was meant to be Dan Gray, who's the executive producer,

00:24:50 ◼   ► but unfortunately he had to pull out at the last minute, so his boss, Neil, stepped in.

00:24:55 ◼   ► Dan just... Basically, Apple had asked us if they would do this.

00:25:02 ◼   ► they said yes.

00:25:03 ◼   ► And usually there are guest moderators.

00:25:04 ◼   ► I don't know what the standard protocol is

00:25:06 ◼   ► for having a moderator,

00:25:09 ◼   ► but because some videos from the Read&Treat store

00:25:13 ◼   ► have celebrities interviewing app developers,

00:25:17 ◼   ► so there's a lot of Stephen Fry, well I guess so.

00:25:19 ◼   ► And then other than that, they have a guy from The Guardian

00:25:23 ◼   ► who seems to do most of them.

00:25:25 ◼   ► So maybe they give the offer,

00:25:26 ◼   ► like would you like to have someone?

00:25:27 ◼   ► And Dan asked me if I would do it,

00:25:29 ◼   ► and of course I said yes.

00:25:30 ◼   ► So yeah, and then I kind of corresponded with him

00:25:35 ◼   ► and the people, there are actually people

00:25:37 ◼   ► that work for Apple that are like, this is their job,

00:25:40 ◼   ► they are the theater managers and the theater team

00:25:43 ◼   ► of these events, 'cause these events,

00:25:45 ◼   ► they have huge celebrities.

00:25:46 ◼   ► Like there are videos from the Regency store

00:25:49 ◼   ► of like Stephen Fry, Cameron Diaz,

00:25:51 ◼   ► they have movie stars there,

00:25:52 ◼   ► like they had Jon Hamm there a couple of weeks ago.

00:25:54 ◼   ► And so yeah, then they basically said to me,

00:25:58 ◼   ► prepare your questions, so I did that.

00:26:00 ◼   ► And kind of, yeah, and got there on the day

00:26:05 ◼   ► and we sat in the not fancy green room

00:26:08 ◼   ► and went to talk through some things with Neil

00:26:10 ◼   ► and then we got up on stage and I did my thing.

00:26:13 ◼   ► - You should have talked about photo management.

00:26:16 ◼   ► - I tried to, I tried to, but they kept like,

00:26:19 ◼   ► they kept threatening me from the side of the stage,

00:26:21 ◼   ► so I had to stop.

00:26:22 ◼   ► - You should have pushed the relay agenda on stage.

00:26:27 ◼   ► - I kind of did. - Still.

00:26:28 ◼   ► right at the start. I said I was from Real AFM, so.

00:26:31 ◼   ► And then a poison dart came out of the back and hit Myke in the neck.

00:26:37 ◼   ► So, and Daniel was on episode 14 of Inquisitor, which if you haven't listened to is really good.

00:26:42 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:44 ◼   ► I was really, I mean I love Monument Valley, although I'm currently angry with the red level because I'm stuck.

00:26:51 ◼   ► But it's a great game and listening to the interview,

00:26:56 ◼   ► and then I haven't watched your video yet,

00:26:58 ◼   ► it just came out today, but they really care about it

00:27:01 ◼   ► in a very deep way.

00:27:04 ◼   ► And it really shows in the game, right,

00:27:06 ◼   ► that they sweat every single little detail.

00:27:10 ◼   ► And it's cool, it's cool that you got an interview.

00:27:12 ◼   ► Congratulations on doing that.

00:27:15 ◼   ► - Congrats, Myke.

00:27:16 ◼   ► - Thank you.

00:27:16 ◼   ► Yeah, Neil has some really cool stuff to say, so.

00:27:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, you are--

00:27:19 ◼   ► - It's just really interesting to watch.

00:27:20 ◼   ► Even if you've listened to the video I did with Dan, like Neil has some other stuff to say.

00:27:23 ◼   ► They also talk through a couple of levels, like they demo them, and me and Neil are talking

00:27:31 ◼   ► about what's happening in the levels as they're happening, so it's pretty cool.

00:27:34 ◼   ► There's a lot of good stuff in there, actually.

00:27:36 ◼   ► Is it weird to interview somebody when you could see them?

00:27:39 ◼   ► I thought it would be, but it was very easy.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Wait, does that mean you can see me now?

00:27:47 ◼   ► Are all the podcasts secretly video podcasts?

00:27:49 ◼   ► Well I have like little dolls made of you all and I just sit them in front of me when

00:27:53 ◼   ► I'm talking so usually it's fine.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Myke is it fair to say that you are now a professional video casters?

00:28:02 ◼   ► It is fair actually.

00:28:05 ◼   ► I'm going to take that.

00:28:06 ◼   ► I am now a professional vlogger as well as a podcaster.

00:28:11 ◼   ► I mean it's a heck of a way to start.

00:28:13 ◼   ► Yeah it's a pretty big bang initially.

00:28:15 ◼   ► I don't really know how I'm gonna follow that up, but I'll find a way.

00:28:20 ◼   ► Some people are creationist.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Anyways, topic.

00:28:24 ◼   ► We ready for topic 0.5?

00:28:26 ◼   ► What has happened to our topic numbers, by the way?

00:28:28 ◼   ► So that was topic 0.3, the next is 0.5, the next, after the next ad read is 0.6.

00:28:34 ◼   ► We don't have, well, we have one topic one.

00:28:36 ◼   ► Yeah, we have taken the Google Chrome versioning number.

00:28:40 ◼   ► Yeah, we should go back to the Facebook where everyone just has a normal number.

00:28:44 ◼   ► - Topic 20.

00:28:45 ◼   ► - Are they, they're version like 19 now, I think.

00:28:48 ◼   ► - This is probably technically like topic 416,

00:28:52 ◼   ► or something like that, but.

00:28:53 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, we should have counted from the beginning.

00:28:55 ◼   ► - Uh huh, that would have been great.

00:28:56 ◼   ► - We should have somebody download all the prompt episodes

00:28:58 ◼   ► and do that.

00:28:59 ◼   ► We could just have it running Tally.

00:29:00 ◼   ► - Count all the topics.

00:29:01 ◼   ► - You know that's gonna happen, right?

00:29:02 ◼   ► Eventually.

00:29:03 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:29:05 ◼   ► - Like people like our dear listeners

00:29:08 ◼   ► will do some sort of workflow to count the episodes.

00:29:13 ◼   ► Can't you do something like this in editorial?

00:29:15 ◼   ► No, because you don't support chapters in the files.

00:29:22 ◼   ► Please don't.

00:29:23 ◼   ► Stop.

00:29:23 ◼   ► Stop.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Don't you dare.

00:29:25 ◼   ► Don't do this to me, man.

00:29:26 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:29:27 ◼   ► OK.

00:29:28 ◼   ► I had basically everybody in Germany tweet me a week ago,

00:29:31 ◼   ► telling me to do it.

00:29:32 ◼   ► In Germany?

00:29:33 ◼   ► What, Germany?

00:29:33 ◼   ► Germany is very much about order.

00:29:35 ◼   ► They want sanctioned files.

00:29:37 ◼   ► A listener from Germany tweeted me

00:29:40 ◼   ► and said that he wanted me to add chapters.

00:29:42 ◼   ► and I said that not enough people want it,

00:29:44 ◼   ► it's not something that I'm interested in doing,

00:29:46 ◼   ► and he was like, "loads of people want it."

00:29:47 ◼   ► And I said to him, "If you get a thousand people

00:29:50 ◼   ► to tell me that you want--" - No, no way.

00:29:51 ◼   ► Why did you do that?

00:29:53 ◼   ► - 'Cause I thought it wouldn't happen.

00:29:55 ◼   ► I said, "If you get a thousand people to tell me

00:29:58 ◼   ► that you want chapters, that they want chapters,

00:30:01 ◼   ► I'll do it."

00:30:02 ◼   ► - Did he start a petition?

00:30:03 ◼   ► - He basically tweeted a few times

00:30:05 ◼   ► and got other people to tweet,

00:30:06 ◼   ► and it was just effectively,

00:30:07 ◼   ► it was just a bunch of people from Germany

00:30:09 ◼   ► and other places in Europe.

00:30:10 ◼   ► You were just watching just all night. It's like for like for two days like they didn't get to a thousand

00:30:16 ◼   ► It was maybe no more than 100

00:30:18 ◼   ► But they just kept coming in and they were like, yeah

00:30:20 ◼   ► And there was like people were like issuing tweets that were like if you want chapters in really fm shows

00:30:25 ◼   ► You got a tweet at Myke and tell him this and I'm like, oh, what have I done?

00:30:27 ◼   ► It was like it felt like fun to me at the time. I appreciate you not dragging me into that

00:30:32 ◼   ► Yeah, I know that I that was solely my thing to do it

00:30:35 ◼   ► Perfectly fine. I'm still it guys

00:30:39 ◼   ► We have a topic

00:30:41 ◼   ► So we talked a lot about Twitter last week and

00:30:46 ◼   ► We did Federico has put a question. I assume this was Federico. I did it. I did it

00:30:52 ◼   ► I was not I was not on top of the notes this week

00:30:55 ◼   ► What would we want from us a new social network now to replace Twitter?

00:30:58 ◼   ► Let me set this up then for while I was thinking this so I actually was also talking to this today with Gina

00:31:04 ◼   ► Trapani and inquisitive it's not posted yet, but it will be over time. This is out anyway

00:31:08 ◼   ► I was thinking, the problem that we have is,

00:31:13 ◼   ► and we spoke about this, we're stuck in Twitter.

00:31:18 ◼   ► No matter whether we love it or hate it,

00:31:20 ◼   ► there's kind of nothing we can do

00:31:22 ◼   ► because this is where we are.

00:31:23 ◼   ► We're kind of stuck in this now.

00:31:25 ◼   ► This is our thing.

00:31:26 ◼   ► App.net died because we wouldn't all move over there.

00:31:29 ◼   ► We went there, but we didn't move.

00:31:31 ◼   ► So we're kind of in this scenario where this is where we are.

00:31:35 ◼   ► So my thing can be the only way that we can break away

00:31:39 ◼   ► from Twitter is that something has to replace it, right?

00:31:42 ◼   ► Because we all kind of love this community that we have

00:31:45 ◼   ► and we wanna go there.

00:31:46 ◼   ► So what do we want?

00:31:48 ◼   ► What does a social network need to do

00:31:50 ◼   ► and what do we want from one

00:31:52 ◼   ► that would make it like the perfect social network?

00:31:55 ◼   ► That we wouldn't have any problems with it

00:31:57 ◼   ► and it would be awesome and we would be happy to be there.

00:32:00 ◼   ► So I broke this down to a few things.

00:32:03 ◼   ► So like what features do we want?

00:32:05 ◼   ► like who needs to be there?

00:32:06 ◼   ► Like how many of our friends or like what types of friends

00:32:08 ◼   ► do we just want our nerds?

00:32:09 ◼   ► Do we want celebrities?

00:32:10 ◼   ► Do we want real friends?

00:32:11 ◼   ► Do we need them all?

00:32:13 ◼   ► What do we want the company's values to be?

00:32:16 ◼   ► Do we want there to be apps like that are made first party

00:32:21 ◼   ► or third party and what does the API need to look like?

00:32:24 ◼   ► They're kind of like the basic sort of areas

00:32:27 ◼   ► that I wanted to explore.

00:32:28 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:32:30 ◼   ► - So for me, I'll start it off.

00:32:32 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:32:33 ◼   ► I quite like something which is more of a combination

00:32:36 ◼   ► between Twitter and Instagram.

00:32:37 ◼   ► So I don't want like a Facebook,

00:32:40 ◼   ► but I want in essence text to be,

00:32:44 ◼   ► it to be like mainly text.

00:32:46 ◼   ► I don't wanna go all the way up to 256 characters

00:32:49 ◼   ► 'cause it's too much,

00:32:50 ◼   ► but maybe a little bit more than 140.

00:32:52 ◼   ► I love all of the mechanics of Twitter.

00:32:56 ◼   ► So at replies, hashtags, all of that sort of stuff.

00:33:00 ◼   ► But I would like images to be supported greater.

00:33:02 ◼   ► So it maybe could look a little bit more like the sort of wrap of cards for example, you know,

00:33:07 ◼   ► but like in to fit it to be more photo features built right in because it's

00:33:12 ◼   ► like a big thing that you share. And I think for me that's like kind of the

00:33:18 ◼   ► perfect type like feature set. And I would for me to be there I would just

00:33:24 ◼   ► need my nerdy friends. I'm totally cool with celebrities not being there. I'm

00:33:27 ◼   ► totally cool with that my real-life friends being there like there are other

00:33:31 ◼   ► social networks where that can occur but I want like you know the the bloggers

00:33:36 ◼   ► that I enjoy and the podcasters that I enjoy and like my friends that I have

00:33:40 ◼   ► because of this stuff you know like the people that I've met and become

00:33:45 ◼   ► acquainted with because of this type of stuff I would like all of those people

00:33:49 ◼   ► to be there so I can basically replicate the type of discussion I see every day.

00:33:53 ◼   ► The company itself like a lot of things don't really bother me I would like the

00:33:59 ◼   ► company's business model to just let me pay. Ideally that's what I would like to

00:34:04 ◼   ► do and I would pay a relatively large sum of money. I'd probably pay

00:34:08 ◼   ► like $25 to $30 a month I would pay for a service like that if it meant that it

00:34:13 ◼   ► would stay around forever and wouldn't be like changed in ways that we don't

00:34:17 ◼   ► want. I don't care if they have advertising as long as they're very

00:34:20 ◼   ► clear about the way that they do the advertising and they don't like take any

00:34:25 ◼   ► data that I wouldn't want to give them and that sort of stuff.

00:34:30 ◼   ► Paying and getting advertising is not necessarily that much of an

00:34:34 ◼   ► issue for me as long as it kind of fits. With apps there should be a first-party

00:34:41 ◼   ► application in my opinion for a network like this so it can show

00:34:45 ◼   ► people what they think should be done in the same way that like Apple's apps

00:34:49 ◼   ► exist. They're like "this is how we think it should be done, you can choose

00:34:53 ◼   ► whatever you want to do it like this but we are setting the standard of this is

00:34:56 ◼   ► how minimum how good our apps need to be and I would want there to be an API that

00:35:01 ◼   ► was very much like the Twitter of old which basically allowed people to have

00:35:04 ◼   ► access to everything they could they could get into everything nothing is

00:35:07 ◼   ► closed off like there's no features that the official app that has that the API

00:35:11 ◼   ► couldn't have and that kind of thing so it's for me it's like a mix between like

00:35:18 ◼   ► the third-party world and Twitter of old like and maybe a little bit of app.net

00:35:24 ◼   ► sprinkled in here and there. It sounds like you described app.net. Yeah, because

00:35:30 ◼   ► that's kind of what they were doing right like yeah because in theory like

00:35:34 ◼   ► this is the whole thing like in theory app.net was perfect it was perfect but

00:35:39 ◼   ► they came up in theory no in saying in theory like it was everything in theory

00:35:44 ◼   ► that we would have wanted a service to replace Twitter to be, right?

00:35:48 ◼   ► Because it kind of had all of the things that we wanted

00:35:51 ◼   ► and it combated things that we were unhappy about.

00:35:55 ◼   ► The problem was we didn't move.

00:35:57 ◼   ► It was just full of geeks.

00:35:59 ◼   ► That's what I mean. Like if everybody moved,

00:36:01 ◼   ► like that's what I mean, like in a perfect world,

00:36:04 ◼   ► App.net was perfect because it gave everything that we wanted,

00:36:07 ◼   ► didn't give us the stuff we didn't want,

00:36:09 ◼   ► and allowed us to pay for it and had a great API.

00:36:12 ◼   ► And like there was a great app ecosystem, right?

00:36:14 ◼   ► In theory, that was what people said that they wanted from Twitter for years.

00:36:18 ◼   ► Yeah, but it lacked the diversity of Twitter.

00:36:25 ◼   ► But that's what I'm saying.

00:36:26 ◼   ► It was only people talking about tech.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's what I'm saying.

00:36:29 ◼   ► It's like in a perfect world, so everyone moving, if basically you took Twitter's entire

00:36:34 ◼   ► user base, lifted them up, and put app.net below them and lowered them back down again,

00:36:39 ◼   ► it's perfect.

00:36:40 ◼   ► That's what I'm saying.

00:36:41 ◼   ► You needed to have done that.

00:36:43 ◼   ► You won't get people to pay for these kind of services.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I know, I know, I understand that, but I'm just saying, like, in a perfect world.

00:36:52 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:36:53 ◼   ► So, I think there's a lot of interesting things in there.

00:37:01 ◼   ► As you were talking about it, I was reminded of a tweet that we got yesterday about, basically

00:37:07 ◼   ► the tweet was like, "Why did Twitter make the API in the first place?

00:37:11 ◼   ► just set the stage for the showdown.

00:37:14 ◼   ► And it's, like that's a really interesting idea and Twitter was an API first because

00:37:21 ◼   ► that's what internet companies do.

00:37:24 ◼   ► Like Twitter would not be, would not have enjoyed the quick rate of success that it

00:37:29 ◼   ► had if it weren't for a third party app.

00:37:32 ◼   ► Because we don't even, Twitter didn't even have a first party app until much much later

00:37:36 ◼   ► until they bought Tweety and rebranded it.

00:37:39 ◼   ► And you know, App.net followed the same course.

00:37:42 ◼   ► They had an API and a website and they let people build apps on top of it.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Some great apps came out of that space.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Where Twitter is now is they're trying to reel that back in and say, "No, no, the API

00:37:57 ◼   ► is sort of not what we want to do.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Everybody wants to be in the first party app."

00:38:03 ◼   ► That's where that whole explosion that happened on this show last week stems from that transition.

00:38:09 ◼   ► And I think that transition is inevitable on social networks.

00:38:14 ◼   ► I think Facebook is the notable exception that Facebook was a website and then they

00:38:20 ◼   ► eventually had mobile apps.

00:38:22 ◼   ► But Facebook really never had a full fee.

00:38:25 ◼   ► You couldn't write a Facebook client.

00:38:28 ◼   ► You could interact with Facebook in certain ways, but you couldn't build a full-fledged

00:38:31 ◼   ► client because their product was not the API.

00:38:34 ◼   ► Their product was the website first.

00:38:37 ◼   ► And I think, and I think, so I think Myke.net or whatever this fanciful social network.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Totally what you should call it.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Yeah, Myke.net.

00:38:46 ◼   ► Like that friction point, like that friction point always has to be answered with web services.

00:38:52 ◼   ► Do you do an API or do you do a product?

00:38:54 ◼   ► Because an API ultimately is not a product.

00:38:57 ◼   ► It can serve as a product for a little while, but what it's going to become is a gateway

00:39:01 ◼   ► for people to take control of what you think your product should be.

00:39:06 ◼   ► That's exactly what happened with Twitter.

00:39:07 ◼   ► It's why people are freaking out about it now.

00:39:11 ◼   ► And so this idea of what does a future social network, what does that look like?

00:39:20 ◼   ► Anything where a single company controls the API has the potential to fall into the quagmire

00:39:28 ◼   ► that is Twitter today.

00:39:29 ◼   ► You look at things like tent.is, these decentralized social networks, or even email, which is maybe

00:39:38 ◼   ► perhaps the first decentralized, well definitely not the first, but a decentralized social

00:39:43 ◼   ► network.

00:39:44 ◼   ► You know, bulletin boards back in the day, anyone could sign up for any bulletin board,

00:39:48 ◼   ► you could run your own bulletin board.

00:39:51 ◼   ► Those are more flexible because you can do whatever you want, but the technical debt

00:39:58 ◼   ► or the technical limitations are higher.

00:40:01 ◼   ► Twitter's really easy, Facebook is really easy.

00:40:03 ◼   ► You go on a website and you sign up, right?

00:40:05 ◼   ► All of us have done it, all of our parents have done it,

00:40:07 ◼   ► not a big deal.

00:40:08 ◼   ► But you look at something that's decentralized

00:40:10 ◼   ► that you have to find a server and join,

00:40:12 ◼   ► there might be username issues or it's messy.

00:40:16 ◼   ► That's ultimately better, perhaps, but more complicated

00:40:19 ◼   ► and therefore less likely to succeed.

00:40:21 ◼   ► - That was pretty sweet. - Can I share my thoughts?

00:40:25 ◼   ► - You can. - Please.

00:40:26 ◼   ► This is going to upset you both.

00:40:30 ◼   ► So I guess we need to have a talk about how

00:40:32 ◼   ► normal people perceive software, especially

00:40:34 ◼   ► this kind of social software that most people want

00:40:36 ◼   ► to use in the world.

00:40:37 ◼   ► So I'm just going to say that most people don't care

00:40:39 ◼   ► about open source and decentralization of software.

00:40:43 ◼   ► They couldn't care less about APIs using different apps.

00:40:45 ◼   ► They just want a free service that

00:40:47 ◼   ► lets them sign up with a username and a password

00:40:50 ◼   ► and a mobile app, and that's it.

00:40:52 ◼   ► They don't care about, oh, is this social network

00:40:55 ◼   ► decentralized? Does it let me set up my API? Does it let me use apps for multiple developers?

00:41:01 ◼   ► They don't care. And I think that the success of Facebook and Twitter and other, I guess,

00:41:07 ◼   ► many, many other products such as Internet Explorer or Google Chrome, or I'm trying to

00:41:13 ◼   ► think of any other popular app, Skype, Spotify, they show that people don't care about the

00:41:20 ◼   ► political fairness of software in this way. The idea of a social network that is decentralized

00:41:28 ◼   ► and that has a stable and fair API is just a nerd fantasy. And that's appealing to us

00:41:36 ◼   ► because it sounds fair and technically intriguing to us, but people don't care about this stuff.

00:41:45 ◼   ► And I believe that with the current Facebook and Twitter, we are kind of close to the perfect

00:41:51 ◼   ► social network that people want in the world.

00:41:54 ◼   ► I think that, I mean, Facebook is now 10 years old, I guess, and Twitter is what, like, eight

00:42:00 ◼   ► years old.

00:42:02 ◼   ► The fact that new services haven't been able to come around and replace them, I think it

00:42:07 ◼   ► kind of shows that the ideas behind Facebook and Twitter are solid, you know?

00:42:12 ◼   ► And maybe there's a bit of contamination between both, because Facebook wants to be more like

00:42:16 ◼   ► Twitter, and Twitter wants to be a little more like Facebook.

00:42:20 ◼   ► But still, I think that they still have plenty of room to improve and discover, like, release

00:42:27 ◼   ► new features, Facebook and Twitter.

00:42:29 ◼   ► I honestly don't see how, at this point, a new player could come around with a revolutionary

00:42:36 ◼   ► idea or feature and convince the entire planet to switch.

00:42:41 ◼   ► That said, I'm not saying that 10 or 20 years from now there won't be another Facebook or

00:42:47 ◼   ► Twitter or whatever.

00:42:49 ◼   ► I'm just saying that today, to me especially, they seem to be doing just fine because people

00:42:58 ◼   ► don't want more, I guess, from Facebook and Twitter.

00:43:04 ◼   ► And if anything, look at all these new messaging apps that millions of people use, WhatsApp

00:43:11 ◼   ► and Line and iMessage. None of these apps, which can be considered social networks in

00:43:18 ◼   ► a way, they don't have decentralization, they don't have an API. Not even Apple, who promised

00:43:25 ◼   ► to make iMessage an open standard. So this is just, you know, we want the perfect

00:43:32 ◼   ► It's like one of those videos that you find on YouTube about the perfect smartphone

00:43:36 ◼   ► And it's like just a bunch of features taken from all the popular smartphones

00:43:40 ◼   ► So I want the body of an HTC and I want the camera of an iPhone and I want the GPU of another Android phone

00:43:45 ◼   ► That's just a fantasy that will never happen or be practical in practice

00:43:48 ◼   ► Practical in practice nice nice teaching. Um

00:43:51 ◼   ► so for me

00:43:54 ◼   ► for me

00:43:56 ◼   ► If I had to to pick between Twitter and Facebook

00:44:00 ◼   ► because come on, Google+ really.

00:44:02 ◼   ► Twitter and Facebook, I would say Twitter is closer to my taste and

00:44:07 ◼   ► But there'll still be improvements that I would like to see in Twitter

00:44:13 ◼   ► I totally agree with Myke when you mention the photos

00:44:16 ◼   ► Especially when it comes to the quality of photos and the fact that you can have these basic effects and filters

00:44:25 ◼   ► But they're not really serious filters or effects.

00:44:30 ◼   ► It feels like a plug-in into the Twitter app that's not really part of the core experience.

00:44:37 ◼   ► So I totally agree with the photos.

00:44:39 ◼   ► I also think that Twitter should find new ways to, like, if I'm not interested in American

00:44:47 ◼   ► politics or sports or other events, there should be better ways to, I don't know how,

00:44:55 ◼   ► to modify the timeline when there's a major event that you care or do not care about.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Because I think that puts a lot of friction when you want to follow people on Twitter,

00:45:05 ◼   ► but you're not interested in a special topic or an event or something.

00:45:12 ◼   ► I'm glad to see that Twitter is launching new features and tools to block people, to

00:45:20 ◼   ► report people for harassment and that kind of stuff.

00:45:23 ◼   ► It's about time.

00:45:24 ◼   ► Yeah, it's about time. And I think as more people keep using and start using public social products,

00:45:32 ◼   ► it's extremely important to be able to let people control their experience and report other users.

00:45:39 ◼   ► I've thought about, like, and then I'll finish with this segment.

00:45:47 ◼   ► I thought about, like, for me one of the big things in the Twitter app is being able to

00:45:53 ◼   ► preview content in tweets.

00:45:59 ◼   ► So I'm thinking about the Twitter cards and the fact that they give you these previews

00:46:03 ◼   ► of articles on the web, they give you a preview of videos, SoundCloud, audio, iTunes previews

00:46:11 ◼   ► sometimes.

00:46:12 ◼   ► I think that ideally my perfect social network would have a much, much broader and more integrated

00:46:19 ◼   ► approach to this, like being able to extract information from links or other sources and

00:46:30 ◼   ► show me more context.

00:46:32 ◼   ► I don't want to just see a link in my timeline.

00:46:36 ◼   ► I want to be able to see what's inside that link without necessarily opening that link.

00:46:41 ◼   ► And Twitter is getting close to this idea with cards.

00:46:46 ◼   ► And also another product that does this pretty well is Slack, with all the integration and

00:46:51 ◼   ► the snippets that they put into the chat rooms.

00:46:53 ◼   ► So ideally my social network will be able to do this with any kind of external link

00:46:59 ◼   ► or resource or piece of content that is put into my timeline.

00:47:04 ◼   ► But really, I cannot think of any other...

00:47:07 ◼   ► Like I don't, I really don't think that a company like App.net or like our idea of a

00:47:17 ◼   ► social network that is kind of like Twitter but also more like App.net because of the

00:47:22 ◼   ► API and the monetization could ever happen practically because people, they don't want

00:47:29 ◼   ► to pay.

00:47:30 ◼   ► Because when you-- also, my last point--

00:47:33 ◼   ► because when you release an API and you allow just about

00:47:38 ◼   ► any developer to create apps, and if you really

00:47:43 ◼   ► want the entire population of Earth to use your service

00:47:47 ◼   ► and you make a first party app, eventually and inevitably,

00:47:52 ◼   ► you are going to compete with developers.

00:47:54 ◼   ► And at that point, because you're the platform owner,

00:47:57 ◼   ► you're going to put exclusive features into your app.

00:48:02 ◼   ► Because you want people to use your app,

00:48:04 ◼   ► because you want to make money.

00:48:06 ◼   ► Because I cannot think of any service,

00:48:08 ◼   ► and correct me if I'm wrong,

00:48:09 ◼   ► any popular public social service

00:48:12 ◼   ► that is free and open source and nobody profits.

00:48:16 ◼   ► And it's, everybody, billions of people use it.

00:48:19 ◼   ► And every day, like Twitter or Facebook or Google search

00:48:23 ◼   ► or Spotify or whatever, or iTunes,

00:48:26 ◼   ► All the major products are done with profit in mind, in some way.

00:48:31 ◼   ► And that's my problem.

00:48:32 ◼   ► The idea of an API decentralization is romantic.

00:48:36 ◼   ► It's awesome, it's beautiful, it just doesn't scale.

00:48:39 ◼   ► Well, you've not said anything I don't know.

00:48:42 ◼   ► My point was not about building--

00:48:43 ◼   ► Snap.

00:48:44 ◼   ► No, I mean, you were saying about the start

00:48:47 ◼   ► of your conversation was like, that won't work because that's

00:48:52 ◼   ► not what regular people want.

00:48:53 ◼   ► I know that.

00:48:55 ◼   ► my point was this is what I think is my perfect social network.

00:48:59 ◼   ► It's not the way to build one because it won't work, but that this is what I,

00:49:03 ◼   ► my perfect social network looks like that.

00:49:05 ◼   ► It's kind of App.net with a sprinkle on top effectively. But I mean,

00:49:10 ◼   ► I understand that it can't work and I know the reason that App.net failed was

00:49:14 ◼   ► because nobody moved and no one's going to pay.

00:49:17 ◼   ► And like that's just how these things are.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Yeah. But don't you, don't you wanna, don't you wanna have a more, um,

00:49:24 ◼   ► What's the name? Like something that will happen as a wish? Don't you want to hope for something real?

00:49:32 ◼   ► Well, I know I'm not going to get anything that's better than what we have, because the way that the...

00:49:38 ◼   ► It's like, you know, what am I going to get? Like, I'll just take Twitter as it is, please. Just leave it as it is.

00:49:44 ◼   ► You just want a non-profit, like, for good social network.

00:49:49 ◼   ► a pure wish because it's, you know, Ferrico's right, like there can't be something that

00:49:54 ◼   ► does the things that I want it to be because the business model doesn't work.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Well it does work at scale but it doesn't work to make people feel too rich and that's

00:50:01 ◼   ► what people care about.

00:50:02 ◼   ► I totally get it, it's just that if you think about it that way, that you know will never

00:50:07 ◼   ► happen but that's what you want, you'll be like sad and disappointed and I don't want

00:50:11 ◼   ► you to be sad.

00:50:12 ◼   ► I am sad already.

00:50:13 ◼   ► No, please don't be.

00:50:15 ◼   ► I am because I like it the way, you know, we're going back to last week, I like it the

00:50:19 ◼   ► it the way I like it and people are changing it. I think you should change your fantasy

00:50:23 ◼   ► so you'll be happier. Fantasy is... Adjust your dreams sir and you will be a happier

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00:52:37 ◼   ► It occurred to me that I've become the bad guy on this show lately.

00:52:41 ◼   ► You are the villain.

00:52:42 ◼   ► I don't like it.

00:52:43 ◼   ► You are the villain.

00:52:44 ◼   ► I don't like it.

00:52:45 ◼   ► You are the villain.

00:52:46 ◼   ► You are against platform development, you like restricted environments, and you believe

00:52:52 ◼   ► in selling people's information.

00:52:54 ◼   ► And that's why you're going to tell me that you're going to switch back to Chrome now,

00:52:57 ◼   ► right?

00:52:58 ◼   ► That's what this topic is about.

00:52:59 ◼   ► I'm a realist.

00:53:00 ◼   ► I'm a realist.

00:53:01 ◼   ► I know.

00:53:02 ◼   ► I just don't want to be disappointed like I'm going to be disappointed.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Yes, I want to live a happy life with no disappointments and I want to use it.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Stop it.

00:53:10 ◼   ► No, we're not going to stop.

00:53:11 ◼   ► There's nothing you can do.

00:53:12 ◼   ► I'm so sad.

00:53:13 ◼   ► Don't be sad.

00:53:14 ◼   ► Let's talk about browsers.

00:53:15 ◼   ► Steven used to be the sad guy because of all the dead mechs and stuff.

00:53:20 ◼   ► And now I'm the bad guy.

00:53:21 ◼   ► You're not a bad guy.

00:53:23 ◼   ► And you're the sad one.

00:53:24 ◼   ► I'm the sad guy.

00:53:25 ◼   ► Steven is happy now he has an iPad.

00:53:27 ◼   ► I mean, what has this show become?

00:53:29 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:53:30 ◼   ► Hey guys, let me tell you about my workflows

00:53:32 ◼   ► So like espresso lately I would like I would like to tell a story

00:53:39 ◼   ► Okay, so today

00:53:42 ◼   ► Earlier today I get a message from Federico and says hey, let's talk about browsers on the show. I said, hey, that's great

00:53:48 ◼   ► So no, you said cool and they cool. Yeah

00:53:52 ◼   ► So I seemed like yeah

00:53:55 ◼   ► I went about what browsers are used on OS X

00:53:57 ◼   ► and why that's true, and then I opened the topic

00:53:59 ◼   ► and it's browsers on iOS,

00:54:01 ◼   ► which I am not prepared for at all.

00:54:03 ◼   ► Just showing the difference between my world and yours.

00:54:05 ◼   ► - Well, okay, this came up because of a conversation

00:54:09 ◼   ► me and Federico had,

00:54:10 ◼   ► have been having over the last couple of days.

00:54:14 ◼   ► So maybe we can-- - Wow, who allowed that

00:54:16 ◼   ► to happen?

00:54:17 ◼   ► - We have secret messages.

00:54:18 ◼   ► - I message. - Whoa.

00:54:19 ◼   ► - This is where we plot our social network.

00:54:22 ◼   ► I think you can imagine how terrible it goes.

00:54:25 ◼   ► So basically Federico over the last couple of days has been highlighting on

00:54:28 ◼   ► Mac stories a couple of great apps that take advantage of reading the iOS Safari

00:54:34 ◼   ► DOM. It's this new thing, you know how Bing does the translation thing?

00:54:39 ◼   ► Well there's a great app called Stacks which just came out and which is a

00:54:43 ◼   ► currency converter and what it can do with its extension in Safari is it can

00:54:48 ◼   ► take all of the currencies or the monetary amounts, I can't think of the

00:54:53 ◼   ► word prices there you go all the prices of products on a website and it can do

00:54:59 ◼   ► in page conversion and replace them with your currency of choice which is

00:55:03 ◼   ► freaking amazing and there was another app as well right Federico what was the

00:55:08 ◼   ► other one you were telling me about or is it not out yet? Well I showed you the font

00:55:12 ◼   ► the font app. What font? So this is an app that can identify fonts on a web page so

00:55:20 ◼   ► he was saying to me hey would you like this app and I was like does it work

00:55:23 ◼   ► in Chrome? I said no. So this is what we wanted to talk about. So I am a Chrome user, I've

00:55:29 ◼   ► mentioned this before. I use Chrome on the desktop and I use Chrome on iOS because I

00:55:34 ◼   ► like to have the same browser because there are intrinsic benefits to that. I'll get into

00:55:38 ◼   ► that in a minute. Federico used to be a Chrome user, I know, and then he moved to Safari

00:55:43 ◼   ► a while ago. I'll put a link in the show notes to Federico's epic.

00:55:46 ◼   ► Very publicly moved to Safari.

00:55:49 ◼   ► So there's a great poster Federico wrote about his reasons for doing that.

00:55:54 ◼   ► And then as I had feared, as time has gone on into iOS 8, there are now a bunch of apps

00:56:00 ◼   ► which are extensions that take full support of the powerful stuff that can happen inside

00:56:07 ◼   ► of Safari only.

00:56:10 ◼   ► Chrome can use extensions, but it can't do the reading of the DOM.

00:56:14 ◼   ► I know I'm saying this incorrectly, I know I'm saying something wrong, but you get what

00:56:18 ◼   ► I'm trying to say.

00:56:19 ◼   ► - Sounds like a chapter of the Bible.

00:56:20 ◼   ► Honestly.

00:56:21 ◼   ► - Okay, I'll try DOM manipulation now instead,

00:56:25 ◼   ► 'cause that also sounds interesting.

00:56:26 ◼   ► So, I mean, like Chrome can do a bunch of things,

00:56:29 ◼   ► like I can clip stuff to Evernote and all that sort of stuff,

00:56:32 ◼   ► but it can't do the reading and the whatever.

00:56:35 ◼   ► So Federico was saying to me, "Why do you use Chrome?"

00:56:39 ◼   ► And then we decided, "Let's talk about it on the show."

00:56:41 ◼   ► So, I'm a Chrome user on the desktop

00:56:45 ◼   ► because of Google Apps primarily.

00:56:48 ◼   ► I use Google Drive constantly.

00:56:52 ◼   ► I'm in it all day.

00:56:53 ◼   ► I have a whole different window set up with just full of tabs,

00:56:57 ◼   ► and it's just got-- it's just Sheets and Docs and Drive

00:57:02 ◼   ► and everything is all there.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Now, I know I could run Chrome separately for this

00:57:06 ◼   ► and have just Chrome as the Google Drive app that runs.

00:57:10 ◼   ► But if I'm going to use one browser,

00:57:12 ◼   ► I like a consistent experience.

00:57:14 ◼   ► So my history is saved, and all the tabs are saved,

00:57:17 ◼   ► and stuff like that.

00:57:18 ◼   ► because for example, quite frequently,

00:57:20 ◼   ► I'll click a link that's in a show document

00:57:22 ◼   ► and there'll be a page that's come up

00:57:23 ◼   ► and then I might wanna read it somewhere else later

00:57:25 ◼   ► or bring it up on the other machine

00:57:26 ◼   ► so everything's in sync, right?

00:57:28 ◼   ► 'Cause sometimes I will have something on the MacBook Pro

00:57:31 ◼   ► and then I bring it up on the production machine

00:57:32 ◼   ► to play a city sound effects or something like that.

00:57:34 ◼   ► So if I'm gonna use any browser,

00:57:36 ◼   ► I just want it to be the same browser.

00:57:38 ◼   ► So some other stuff is I really like on iOS

00:57:42 ◼   ► the support that Google has for X-Callback URL.

00:57:46 ◼   ► So a frequent thing where this pops up is I'm in Mailbox,

00:57:50 ◼   ► and I go out to a link that's in an email,

00:57:55 ◼   ► and then I press the button on the top left,

00:57:57 ◼   ► and it closes a tab and takes me back to Mailbox.

00:57:59 ◼   ► Same with Tweetbot, there's a bunch of apps that do this.

00:58:02 ◼   ► Google Chrome will open directions for me in Google Maps,

00:58:06 ◼   ► which I also use.

00:58:07 ◼   ► So there is, Google has, in my opinion,

00:58:10 ◼   ► with third-party apps on iOS, a better relationship.

00:58:13 ◼   ► It shares information better,

00:58:15 ◼   ► it takes you around the OS a lot better,

00:58:17 ◼   ► because at Safari, you just end up in Safari,

00:58:20 ◼   ► and then you have to go back your own way to the app.

00:58:23 ◼   ► Also, Safari on iOS's tab view

00:58:26 ◼   ► makes me wanna stab my eyes out.

00:58:28 ◼   ► I think it's horrific.

00:58:29 ◼   ► I don't like the way it looks.

00:58:31 ◼   ► I don't like that it's just this endless spinning thing.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Sometimes I go to Safari, and I'm like,

00:58:38 ◼   ► page, page, page, I'm just spinning down

00:58:40 ◼   ► this roller decks of tabs.

00:58:42 ◼   ► I don't like it, it's just not to my taste.

00:58:44 ◼   ► So they are the reasons that I use Chrome.

00:58:47 ◼   ► Tell me why.

00:58:49 ◼   ► - Steven, what do you do?

00:58:50 ◼   ► Is Steven out of this conversation completely?

00:58:53 ◼   ► - Hey.

00:58:54 ◼   ► - Hi.

00:58:55 ◼   ► - Oh, are we still?

00:58:56 ◼   ► - Do you wanna talk about iOS stuff, man?

00:58:59 ◼   ► - I have a lot of things to say.

00:59:01 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:59:02 ◼   ► - First off,

00:59:02 ◼   ► I totally get that Google Apps is better in Chrome,

00:59:08 ◼   ► like it just is.

00:59:10 ◼   ► the web nerd in me is saddened by that,

00:59:15 ◼   ► because I think that your browser should be your choice

00:59:18 ◼   ► and not the choice of whatever.

00:59:21 ◼   ► Chrome could totally be the new Internet Explorer.

00:59:25 ◼   ► It's a little scary, especially from a development perspective.

00:59:28 ◼   ► There's a lot of stuff that Google's doing that only works

00:59:30 ◼   ► in Chrome or is Chrome first.

00:59:31 ◼   ► But we've talked about that.

00:59:32 ◼   ► I have Chrome-- actually, I don't anymore.

00:59:38 ◼   ► I used to have Chrome installed on iOS

00:59:40 ◼   ► when I used Chrome more heavily on the Mac.

00:59:43 ◼   ► But like Federico, I have gone back to Safari,

00:59:46 ◼   ► mainly because of the desktop, as you might imagine.

00:59:51 ◼   ► That Chrome is just really rough on battery life

00:59:54 ◼   ► on notebooks, and that's important to me.

00:59:56 ◼   ► I use my notebook a lot out and about during the day,

00:59:58 ◼   ► and Safari gives me sometimes hours of battery life back.

01:00:03 ◼   ► And so I don't love Safari in Yosemite.

01:00:07 ◼   ► I think that everything being centered is dumb.

01:00:09 ◼   ► I think that transparency is dumb.

01:00:11 ◼   ► I think that there's a lot of things in Safari

01:00:14 ◼   ► that aren't very good in Yosemite,

01:00:16 ◼   ► but it's fast and it's easy on battery.

01:00:18 ◼   ► And so I've moved back to it on the Mac.

01:00:23 ◼   ► And because of that, like I've always used Safari

01:00:26 ◼   ► as my primary browser on iOS, but using it on the Mac,

01:00:29 ◼   ► you get all that integration with iCloud tabs.

01:00:31 ◼   ► And it's just a tighter experience

01:00:37 ◼   ► if you're using the same browser everywhere.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And for me, I like the way the Safari does that better.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I actually agree with Stephen.

01:00:46 ◼   ► What a surprise.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Like entirely.

01:00:48 ◼   ► So I switched to--

01:00:53 ◼   ► I was a huge Google Chrome fan.

01:00:55 ◼   ► And then I switched to Safari for all the reasons

01:00:59 ◼   ► that I mentioned in the article.

01:01:00 ◼   ► I don't want to go over those again.

01:01:02 ◼   ► So let me just talk to you, Myke, about Safari.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Please do.

01:01:06 ◼   ► So my main reason is actually three reasons.

01:01:10 ◼   ► - My main reason is three reasons.

01:01:13 ◼   ► - Yes, it's a main reason in three parts.

01:01:16 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:01:18 ◼   ► - Okay, iCloud tabs, really nicely integrated

01:01:23 ◼   ► with the system.

01:01:24 ◼   ► I love the simplicity.

01:01:26 ◼   ► I don't have to do anything there.

01:01:28 ◼   ► They are one of the fastest and most reliable parts

01:01:33 ◼   ► of iCloud.

01:01:34 ◼   ► So congratulations to the engineer who wrote iCloud tabs.

01:01:39 ◼   ► The second spotlight suggestions in the Safari address bar on iOS and I guess also on Yosemite

01:01:44 ◼   ► so I don't know for sure.

01:01:47 ◼   ► I really like the suggestions for websites and maps directions.

01:01:53 ◼   ► I especially like spotlight suggestions for Wikipedia entries.

01:01:59 ◼   ► That's so helpful.

01:02:01 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

01:02:02 ◼   ► like the first, like I want to know when someone was born and like spotlight suggestions in

01:02:08 ◼   ► Safari like they give you the first like two sentences and most of the time those are enough.

01:02:15 ◼   ► I don't even have to open Wikipedia. Or if I want to, you know, Google someone's name,

01:02:22 ◼   ► I don't have to see Google because Safari takes me directly to Wikipedia if I want to

01:02:27 ◼   ► tap the page, which is handy.

01:02:29 ◼   ► And the third reason, obviously, is better support for extensions.

01:02:35 ◼   ► I want to be able to use all these new extensions that can interact with the contents of a web

01:02:41 ◼   ► page, because those are really practical for me.

01:02:47 ◼   ► Because I don't basically use my mic anymore, so that's not really a joke anymore, it's

01:02:51 ◼   ► the truth, I'm using my iPad, so, I mean, whatever, right?

01:02:56 ◼   ► And I want to be able to do stuff.

01:02:59 ◼   ► And on the Mac it's really easy if you want to say, print a page to PDF or like clip a

01:03:06 ◼   ► web page to Evernote or to Pinterest or other services that take content from web pages

01:03:13 ◼   ► and save it elsewhere.

01:03:15 ◼   ► And on iOS I need extensions for this.

01:03:18 ◼   ► And since iOS 8 there's been a great collection of new apps and extensions that integrate

01:03:27 ◼   ► only with Safari.

01:03:28 ◼   ► So this is a nice benefit for me because I can use stuff like PDF converter from Readdle

01:03:35 ◼   ► to generate PDFs.

01:03:37 ◼   ► The other extensions that you mentioned Myke, those are awesome.

01:03:41 ◼   ► So yeah, these are the main reasons.

01:03:43 ◼   ► There are other little touches that I like, like the bookmarks menu with the huge large

01:03:49 ◼   ► icons, the favicons, whatever, those are really handy.

01:03:53 ◼   ► And I like the Safari Reader feature, especially when I go to websites for music lyrics, which

01:04:01 ◼   ► tend to be awful and terrible, and my god, who designs those websites, I don't know.

01:04:07 ◼   ► With Safari Reader I can get a cleaner visualization of lyrics, which I like.

01:04:13 ◼   ► So I can sing better and I can practice my English and my songs.

01:04:19 ◼   ► So yeah, I really like Safari.

01:04:22 ◼   ► I think it's my favorite Apple app on iOS.

01:04:27 ◼   ► So I think they're all valid things and like, you know, the extensions thing is what makes

01:04:31 ◼   ► me sad.

01:04:32 ◼   ► But I think some of the things that I like about Chrome, they don't exist in Safari,

01:04:36 ◼   ► right?

01:04:37 ◼   ► So like that's, if I like those things as much as I think I do, which is, you know,

01:04:42 ◼   ► of the main reasons I use Chrome. I kind of have to deal with one thing or the

01:04:46 ◼   ► other. I either have to deal with the sub-par extension support because

01:04:52 ◼   ► there's nothing Google can do about some of it, or I have to kind of deal with

01:04:58 ◼   ► losing features from my web browser. And like some of them, like the X

01:05:04 ◼   ► callback URL stuff, it would frustrate me so much. Like just on a daily basis, like

01:05:12 ◼   ► to have it and because I rely on it which is funny that now what is

01:05:17 ◼   ► happening to this show I am now relying on.

01:05:24 ◼   ► Can I ask you a question Myke? So do you think that I mean because you do

01:05:30 ◼   ► most of your work at your Mac so you use all these desktop web apps in Chrome.

01:05:37 ◼   ► You know what Federico I actually don't know if that's true I do a lot like but

01:05:40 ◼   ► it's not most, it's still not most. I'm out and about a lot, I still do a significant

01:05:46 ◼   ► amount of work from my iPhone.

01:05:49 ◼   ► OK, so, if you didn't do a lot on the Mac or if Safari on the Mac had better support

01:05:59 ◼   ► for Google stuff, would you also use Chrome on iOS or would you switch to Safari?

01:06:05 ◼   ► I think I would be more inclined to try it.

01:06:08 ◼   ► If Apple came out today or Google came out today

01:06:12 ◼   ► and they were like, it's totally fixed guys, go crazy.

01:06:16 ◼   ► I would try Safari out and I'm more,

01:06:18 ◼   ► like I would give it more of a go.

01:06:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, I asked-- - Because that is

01:06:22 ◼   ► the main sticking point for me.

01:06:23 ◼   ► - Yeah. - It's like I need,

01:06:25 ◼   ► I need it to be perfect.

01:06:26 ◼   ► I can't have problems in it because basically

01:06:30 ◼   ► our business runs in Google Drive.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Like so many points rely on it.

01:06:36 ◼   ► - And on iOS you have native apps for Google stuff.

01:06:40 ◼   ► So you don't really need Chrome on iOS

01:06:42 ◼   ► for the web apps part that you have on the Mac.

01:06:46 ◼   ► - No, or I just wanna say just for the point of complaining,

01:06:49 ◼   ► still have not been updated for the sixes.

01:06:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's super gross.

01:06:54 ◼   ► - I do not understand what Google are doing.

01:06:56 ◼   ► Like I cannot fathom why it hasn't been done yet.

01:06:59 ◼   ► Like I can't, I don't get it.

01:07:01 ◼   ► I just don't get it.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's weird.

01:07:03 ◼   ► It's like Spotify, still not updated for the iPhone 6.

01:07:06 ◼   ► - Like what is going on?

01:07:07 ◼   ► Like what is going on?

01:07:08 ◼   ► - I mean, I can understand like the first few weeks

01:07:11 ◼   ► you say, okay, yeah, developers didn't have the time.

01:07:14 ◼   ► I mean, it's kinda Christmas now.

01:07:16 ◼   ► - But you know, we're talking about a company

01:07:19 ◼   ► with the resources of Google.

01:07:21 ◼   ► - Google and Spotify.

01:07:22 ◼   ► - But like especially Google.

01:07:25 ◼   ► - Especially Google, yeah.

01:07:26 ◼   ► - It's like Apple not doing it.

01:07:28 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:29 ◼   ► - You know?

01:07:30 ◼   ► It's insane anyway.

01:07:31 ◼   ► But yeah, I mean, you know, the Google Drive stuff is the biggest point.

01:07:36 ◼   ► But and then the other points are just like conveniences that I like about Chrome over Safari.

01:07:41 ◼   ► But yeah, there you go.

01:07:44 ◼   ► That's why.

01:07:44 ◼   ► Very nice.

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01:10:38 ◼   ► Apple, what are you doing?

01:10:41 ◼   ► Okay.

01:10:42 ◼   ► So, friend of the network and um...

01:10:46 ◼   ► Previous sponsor on last week's episode.

01:10:48 ◼   ► Previous sponsor and really, really friend to the world.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Greg Pierce, the developer of Drafts, issued some tweets on the Twitter social network

01:11:01 ◼   ► and basically it boils down to his Today extension which allowed you to create like new notes

01:11:08 ◼   ► or open the app directly from today.

01:11:12 ◼   ► Apparently Apple is not going to allow him to move forward with that.

01:11:15 ◼   ► And furthermore, basically the today view, from what he has been told, is for glanceable

01:11:24 ◼   ► information not for interaction.

01:11:26 ◼   ► And so he expects that Evernote's extension, which if you have installed, allows you to

01:11:33 ◼   ► create a new note or a new audio recording, really helpful stuff, not so much allowed

01:11:39 ◼   ► anymore apparently.

01:11:40 ◼   ► is not awesome because because because Apple has allowed this crazy people to

01:11:51 ◼   ► run up review happen and this is like a month after the peacock drama right so

01:11:56 ◼   ► yes yes peacock shipped with a basically a version of peacock that ran in today

01:12:00 ◼   ► and they say no you can't do it the developer says no I can't do it and then

01:12:07 ◼   ► the internet exploded and then Apple said oh no you can stay it's not a

01:12:11 ◼   ► problem and it's very back and forth and very not cool so yeah so Federico of out

01:12:18 ◼   ► of us I think you are using them kind of using today widgets the most like I

01:12:23 ◼   ► think Myke also uses yeah I use them a lot as well I don't use the drafts one

01:12:29 ◼   ► I don't know why I'm looking at it now and oh there's some buttons in here guys

01:12:35 ◼   ► "I cannot believe they've allowed these buttons!"

01:12:39 ◼   ► A couple of weeks ago, Nito was removed from the App Store.

01:12:45 ◼   ► And that one I kind of get, because it created a fake keyboard.

01:12:49 ◼   ► So it's like, "Okay guys, come on now. I understand what you're doing,

01:12:53 ◼   ► but how did you ever think that they were going to let you do this?

01:12:56 ◼   ► If Apple didn't let you have a keyboard, don't create a keyboard."

01:13:00 ◼   ► But the frustrating thing for them is they were allowed in the store,

01:13:04 ◼   ► and it didn't hide anything.

01:13:06 ◼   ► Like this is our app, our app creates a keyboard.

01:13:08 ◼   ► These are our screenshots that show the keyboard

01:13:11 ◼   ► in Notifications Center that we have created.

01:13:14 ◼   ► So where that app maybe wasn't the smartest thing to do,

01:13:19 ◼   ► it makes sense in a way maybe why Apple

01:13:23 ◼   ► should have had a problem with it initially.

01:13:25 ◼   ► But now we've got a scenario where there is,

01:13:30 ◼   ► basically this widget, it allows you to create

01:13:34 ◼   ► a new draft or create a new draft from what's on your clipboard?

01:13:40 ◼   ► Like, what is going on here?

01:13:43 ◼   ► Why is this a problem?

01:13:44 ◼   ► I don't understand.

01:13:45 ◼   ► What really concerns me is not just about the fact

01:13:52 ◼   ► that Apple approves and then rejects an app.

01:13:56 ◼   ► That concerns me.

01:13:57 ◼   ► But the worst part for me is that in both Peacock's and Draft's

01:14:01 ◼   ► case, these are apps that Apple featured on the App Store with banners and feature sections.

01:14:11 ◼   ► Like there was a person who put the app into a section to promote it to millions of people

01:14:17 ◼   ► and there's another person at Apple who says, "No, this app is, we don't like it."

01:14:22 ◼   ► So that shows a disconnect between review and editorial.

01:14:28 ◼   ► Which shouldn't happen, shouldn't be the case, especially after Mr. Cook fired poor Scott

01:14:35 ◼   ► Forstall to focus on collaboration and now Forstall is, you know, without a job and there's

01:14:41 ◼   ► no collaboration between teams in this specific case about the App Store.

01:14:46 ◼   ► Maybe he's building a special network.

01:14:48 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Maybe it's behind the new... did you guys see the new wire thing?

01:14:53 ◼   ► Oh, I downloaded it.

01:14:55 ◼   ► I haven't tried it.

01:14:58 ◼   ► So yeah, it is weird. I can understand why Nito, with a fake keyboard, I kinda get why

01:15:06 ◼   ► that's kinda strange. I can understand why Apple may want to pull that kind of app. But

01:15:14 ◼   ► all these other apps that were previously approved, features promoted by Apple on Twitter,

01:15:23 ◼   ► Facebook page, on the App Store, and now they gotta remove these features? That's kinda

01:15:28 ◼   ► worrying. That's not a good sign. And you guys asked why is this happening? So I got

01:15:38 ◼   ► a bunch of theories on Twitter last night. Basically one of the leading theories seems

01:15:46 ◼   ► to be that because the glances on the upcoming Apple Watch will be similar to widgets, the

01:15:54 ◼   ► idea is that Apple wants some consistency between widgets on iOS and widgets on the

01:16:00 ◼   ► Apple Watch.

01:16:01 ◼   ► This is all a theory, so don't be upset at me.

01:16:06 ◼   ► I didn't come up with a theory.

01:16:07 ◼   ► The problem with that theory is then you allow Peacock back in.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:16:10 ◼   ► And Peacock is like, it's the worst possible thing because it's just all buttons.

01:16:16 ◼   ► It's a sea of buttons, right?

01:16:18 ◼   ► Which is too big for like, oh.

01:16:23 ◼   ► - And it wouldn't make any sense anyway

01:16:24 ◼   ► to enforce this kind of consistency,

01:16:28 ◼   ► forced consistency between devices that are different.

01:16:31 ◼   ► I mean, of course I want to be able to have

01:16:33 ◼   ► a different widget and a different app on my iPad

01:16:36 ◼   ► because the screen is bigger

01:16:37 ◼   ► and I want to have different widgets on the iPhone

01:16:40 ◼   ► and I want to have glances on the Apple Watch.

01:16:42 ◼   ► I want to have software that makes sense

01:16:44 ◼   ► that is unique to each platform

01:16:46 ◼   ► And if anything remotely close to this theory

01:16:50 ◼   ► is the case at Apple, that's seriously misguided, I think.

01:16:53 ◼   ► And it doesn't make much sense.

01:16:55 ◼   ► And there are a bunch of other theories,

01:16:58 ◼   ► like that Apple internally, they decided

01:17:02 ◼   ► that the main problem is to either launch other apps.

01:17:06 ◼   ► Like, Steven, for instance, you develop an app called Old Mac.

01:17:11 ◼   ► And your app, Old Mac, is able to launch

01:17:13 ◼   ► other apps such as Twitter, Facebook and Google Chrome because it's an application launcher.

01:17:19 ◼   ► And now Apple goes to Steven and says "Hey Steven, you need to pull Alt Mac from the

01:17:22 ◼   ► App Store because it can launch other apps." And you're like "Okay, I won't launch any

01:17:26 ◼   ► other external app anymore. I will just launch my own app and that's fine." In Draft's case,

01:17:33 ◼   ► the problem is that not only does it launch Drafts, but it pre-populates a screen with

01:17:40 ◼   ► content, which is the clipboard, this is a theory that if Drafts was only able to launch the app and

01:17:47 ◼   ► restore its original state without adding any new content, without switching automatically to the

01:17:54 ◼   ► Drafts creation screen, that would be okay. But again, this is a theory and even if it's true,

01:17:59 ◼   ► doesn't make any practical sense to remove this functionality from an application on the App Store.

01:18:06 ◼   ► I honestly am coming up short with excuses.

01:18:10 ◼   ► It's confusing and Apple should have a clear policy, especially because developers are

01:18:15 ◼   ► investing time to create this stuff.

01:18:18 ◼   ► People like Greg and like James Thompson of Peacock, they spend time creating these widgets

01:18:25 ◼   ► and all of a sudden they're not okay anymore.

01:18:28 ◼   ► And there's all this back and forth and it's really not cool.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Right.

01:18:32 ◼   ► from Apple's own language in the developer documents being vague. I mean

01:18:36 ◼   ► in the iOS developer library they say you know you should

01:18:42 ◼   ► design a simple streamlined UI that highlights the information users are

01:18:46 ◼   ► interested in. In general it's a good idea to limit the number of interactive

01:18:49 ◼   ► items in a widget. Like that doesn't say what you can or can't do it just says

01:18:54 ◼   ► you know should and good idea and and in that vacuum of really clear boundaries

01:19:02 ◼   ► developers are gonna push the bar, right?

01:19:05 ◼   ► They're gonna push things forward

01:19:07 ◼   ► and try to make things more useful and more powerful

01:19:10 ◼   ► until someone at Apple, to Myke's point,

01:19:13 ◼   ► who maybe didn't even know this was a thing,

01:19:16 ◼   ► steps in and says, "Hey, you know what?

01:19:18 ◼   ► This is not really in the spirit of what we want."

01:19:21 ◼   ► And it not only is obviously damaging to developers,

01:19:25 ◼   ► like it's bad for the ecosystem.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Like iOS needs to be more powerful

01:19:31 ◼   ► and guys like Greg and his apps and extensions like Clips

01:19:36 ◼   ► where I can have sort of not really a multi clipboard

01:19:40 ◼   ► but have a place to easily shuttle things around.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Those make the iPhone and iPad more useful

01:19:47 ◼   ► and more powerful.

01:19:49 ◼   ► And Apple stripping that away limits

01:19:53 ◼   ► what their devices can do.

01:19:54 ◼   ► These devices are only as good as the software

01:19:56 ◼   ► that runs on them, period.

01:19:58 ◼   ► And to make that dumb down from what it could be,

01:20:03 ◼   ► like it's, you know, what was so great,

01:20:05 ◼   ► what is so great about today widgets

01:20:07 ◼   ► is they are completely optional, right?

01:20:09 ◼   ► Like if someone never knows that about drafts

01:20:12 ◼   ► or never knows about some of these widgets

01:20:14 ◼   ► that can do crazy things,

01:20:15 ◼   ► like Apple isn't polluting or complicating iOS itself,

01:20:20 ◼   ► but those tools and those apps should be available

01:20:23 ◼   ► for those of us who want to use them.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Because, you know, it's our device,

01:20:27 ◼   ► We can add widgets and we can add things and do crazy things.

01:20:30 ◼   ► And that's fine.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Give us the option is really a win-win for Apple.

01:20:34 ◼   ► Power users get what they want without Apple itself

01:20:39 ◼   ► cluttering up iOS.

01:20:41 ◼   ► And instead, they're saying, oh no, this doesn't work for us.

01:20:44 ◼   ► We don't want those CF buttons, so let's step back

01:20:49 ◼   ► on this rule.

01:20:50 ◼   ► And my guess is that this isn't over.

01:20:53 ◼   ► I think that either way, I think Apple will clear up

01:20:56 ◼   ► the language and they will either come down on this hard and say no you can't

01:21:00 ◼   ► do these things or they're gonna they're gonna do what Apple normally does in

01:21:04 ◼   ► the situation is after a while they'll say okay okay public you're right you

01:21:09 ◼   ► know we're gonna we're gonna allow this but sort of do it begrudgingly but it's

01:21:15 ◼   ► like another example like the longer we do this show and longer I write about

01:21:18 ◼   ► this like there's so many reasons why I don't want to be a developer and like

01:21:22 ◼   ► This is one of them.

01:21:23 ◼   ► Like, oh, I put all this time in this thing.

01:21:25 ◼   ► And now I've got to shelve it because a rule changed somewhere

01:21:29 ◼   ► with a middle manager at Apple.

01:21:31 ◼   ► My understanding is that, as you said, there's some people at Apple,

01:21:38 ◼   ► like high-level managers, who are philosophically

01:21:42 ◼   ► against the idea of using widgets as launchers of any kind

01:21:47 ◼   ► because they envisioned widgets as a display of a short bit of information.

01:21:55 ◼   ► But that also, if that's the case, at least what I heard, you know, if that's the case,

01:22:02 ◼   ► even the WWDC widget didn't really help to reinforce that kind of vision.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Because at WWDC they showed an eBay widget to bid on items.

01:22:14 ◼   ► It wasn't exactly a lightweight widget to display a short amount of information.

01:22:19 ◼   ► It was a full-on utility in Notification Center and it was not about notifications for today.

01:22:24 ◼   ► And it had a button in it!

01:22:27 ◼   ► So I think that Apple, they may be against the idea of people using launchers to replicate

01:22:34 ◼   ► the home screen experience.

01:22:35 ◼   ► They may be against the idea of using buttons and apps and widgets to launch other apps

01:22:42 ◼   ► and stuff, but I think it's too late to limit iOS 8 widgets to the functionality that Apple

01:22:50 ◼   ► may be envisioning. I think it is too late because this is not just about a bunch of

01:22:54 ◼   ► indie developers. This is not just about drafts or Pcalc or other apps from small companies

01:23:03 ◼   ► and small independent studios. Take a look at a widget something like Evernote, for instance,

01:23:08 ◼   ► which is full of buttons, it's able to create new notes from the today widget, and not only

01:23:15 ◼   ► new blank notes, but Evernote can also add a checkmark to a note as you tap a button

01:23:21 ◼   ► in Notification Center.

01:23:23 ◼   ► So Evernote is a big company and there are many other examples of big studios, big developers,

01:23:28 ◼   ► big name applications using widgets to launch and do stuff.

01:23:34 ◼   ► So it may be too late and of course Apple cannot do the thing where they say "ok, yeah

01:23:39 ◼   ► Evernote and Facebook and all these other big guys, they can and you guys cannot".

01:23:44 ◼   ► So I think we will see some clarification but I hope that they will just back off and

01:23:51 ◼   ► just allow this kind of functionality.

01:23:53 ◼   ► I think the problem is now they've let it get away from them and that's the problem.

01:24:03 ◼   ► the problem. Anywho, I mean it's out in the market right like if you come out of

01:24:09 ◼   ► the gate with iOS 8 and said hey today widgets like these are the very clear

01:24:13 ◼   ► boundaries of what you can do like then that's fine right if a developer steps

01:24:16 ◼   ► over that line and Apple smacks them down like okay I get that right like you

01:24:21 ◼   ► set the rule the developer broke the rule you don't allow it but when it's

01:24:25 ◼   ► already in the store and and not it's not like one or two things and it's the

01:24:29 ◼   ► Peacock thing in particular is pretty bad from like an Apple PR

01:24:34 ◼   ► perspective because they came out and allowed it and now just two weeks later

01:24:38 ◼   ► three weeks later they're saying oh you know I don't know if they've

01:24:42 ◼   ► rendered a verdict on Peacock now but like similar things aren't allowed and

01:24:47 ◼   ► that sort of like case-by-case developer by developer

01:24:52 ◼   ► reviewer by reviewer type approach to this is just yeah it's not good I mean

01:24:57 ◼   ► because it's it like you know draft is a big app.

01:25:01 ◼   ► Peacock is a huge app like these these are well-known developers and well and well-known

01:25:05 ◼   ► products and like I would not want to be a truly little little guy in this fight because

01:25:12 ◼   ► maybe you get an exemption from Apple for your app but if you don't know anyone at Apple

01:25:17 ◼   ► you can't convince them to do it like just just have the rules clearly defined and everybody

01:25:21 ◼   ► can play by the rules and like in that structure great freedom is granted and that they need

01:25:27 ◼   ► to get on the ball and clarify what they're gonna let people do.

01:25:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the problem is that Apple, honestly, the problem is that Apple doesn't have clear

01:25:39 ◼   ► guidelines on widgets.

01:25:41 ◼   ► They don't even know themselves what they want or what they are wrong on the apps.

01:25:45 ◼   ► So there's one guy who said, "Yeah, this is not cool."

01:25:47 ◼   ► And the other guy says, "Yeah, this is cool."

01:25:50 ◼   ► Which is troublesome.

01:25:52 ◼   ► And I wonder if...

01:25:53 ◼   ► It may be a problem.

01:25:54 ◼   ► Maybe they didn't foresee people using it like this.

01:25:57 ◼   ► I wonder sometimes, when Apple's developing new things, it's generally very small groups

01:26:05 ◼   ► of people.

01:26:06 ◼   ► I fear that Apple has a little bit of group think in some of this stuff, and they say,

01:26:12 ◼   ► "Oh, no."

01:26:13 ◼   ► They don't like the idea of peak algorithm drafts and today never even cross anyone's

01:26:18 ◼   ► mind.

01:26:19 ◼   ► that's happened, they're like, "Oh, crud."

01:26:22 ◼   ► You know, like, if it's a surprise to Apple

01:26:25 ◼   ► that people are trying to do this,

01:26:27 ◼   ► like, that's the worst case scenario in my mind,

01:26:29 ◼   ► because it's clear there's something wrong

01:26:31 ◼   ► with the way that they're going about

01:26:33 ◼   ► adding these features to their software.

01:26:35 ◼   ► But even if that's not the case,

01:26:39 ◼   ► it's definitely unsettling.

01:26:40 ◼   ► And like, another example of,

01:26:42 ◼   ► the App Store is so big, it's so popular,

01:26:45 ◼   ► these, this thing has a life beyond what Cupertino dreams up and they just don't manage it well

01:26:52 ◼   ► when this sort of thing happens and they need to be better at it.

01:26:57 ◼   ► Federico, to make us feel a little bit better, can you tell people where they find the show notes?

01:27:05 ◼   ► Are you sure about that? Yeah, because I've been thinking about, you know, I've been thinking

01:27:11 ◼   ► Like, what if I had to explain to my dad what show notes are?

01:27:18 ◼   ► What would I tell my parents about show notes?

01:27:22 ◼   ► Why do I spend time telling people where the show notes are when I cannot

01:27:28 ◼   ► describe show notes to the rest of the population of this planet?

01:27:33 ◼   ► So basically, every time we get together, me and Steven and Myke,

01:27:38 ◼   ► we assemble this collection of links, right?

01:27:43 ◼   ► We talk about stuff, and then to prove that the stuff we talk

01:27:46 ◼   ► about exists, we link to it.

01:27:50 ◼   ► And so basically, what you want to do

01:27:52 ◼   ► is you want to take your Sony VAIO notebook,

01:27:58 ◼   ► or I guess also an Acer or an HP--

01:28:03 ◼   ► Chrome book, maybe a Chromebook?

01:28:05 ◼   ► No, no, those are too fancy.

01:28:06 ◼   ► You know, we like, we roll old school with this.

01:28:11 ◼   ► You go to the web browser, I would say Mozilla, Firefox would be okay.

01:28:19 ◼   ► Because it's open source and it's got themes.

01:28:22 ◼   ► So you go to the web and you go to the website, which is relay.fm, and you type a slash, which

01:28:31 ◼   ► which is the little line character,

01:28:34 ◼   ► and you add "Connected", which is the name of the show that we do.

01:28:38 ◼   ► And then you add another slash character,

01:28:41 ◼   ► and you type 16 as a number.

01:28:44 ◼   ► - The numbers, yeah. - Because apparently,

01:28:47 ◼   ► we've been doing this new show on Real AFM for 16 episodes now.

01:28:52 ◼   ► And so when you go to the page,

01:28:55 ◼   ► you will find our photos as a confirmation

01:28:57 ◼   ► that we are actual people talking, you know?

01:29:00 ◼   ► This is not a computer-generated voice.

01:29:03 ◼   ► At least I hope that you two are humans as well.

01:29:07 ◼   ► And you will find the show notes, which are called notes.

01:29:11 ◼   ► They're called show notes, but actually it's just like a show list of links,

01:29:16 ◼   ► which is great. Sometimes there's a picture.

01:29:19 ◼   ► This is getting more difficult every time. I hate you, man.

01:29:27 ◼   ► Your dad is definitely confused now.

01:29:29 ◼   ► No, no, dad, please don't be confused.

01:29:31 ◼   ► I can come home and teach you how to browse the show notes.

01:29:35 ◼   ► So the show notes are, the show notes are an essential piece of the relay experience.

01:29:43 ◼   ► And you should be able to enjoy the full relay FM experience as Myke and Steven intended.

01:29:52 ◼   ► And me, I will just provide with the instructions

01:29:57 ◼   ► to get to the show notes.

01:29:59 ◼   ► And we promise as a network, right?

01:30:04 ◼   ► That we will always do,

01:30:06 ◼   ► we are renewing our commitment to the show notes.

01:30:09 ◼   ► - Yes, renew commitment.

01:30:10 ◼   ► - Right?

01:30:11 ◼   ► So yeah, that's how you find the show notes.

01:30:15 ◼   ► Which is a list of links,

01:30:16 ◼   ► but see, you know, you gotta click them

01:30:18 ◼   ► to view the source page in your web browser.

01:30:23 ◼   ► - Thanks, Teach.

01:30:24 ◼   ► I appreciate the explanation.

01:30:27 ◼   ► If you'd like to find us online,

01:30:29 ◼   ► other than those show notes,

01:30:30 ◼   ► which now you definitely know how to get to,

01:30:32 ◼   ► we're all on Twitter,

01:30:33 ◼   ► the perfect social network for all of us.

01:30:36 ◼   ► I am @imike, I am Y-K-E,

01:30:38 ◼   ► for Rico's at the DGVITICCI.

01:30:41 ◼   ► Steven is @ismh.

01:30:43 ◼   ► The show is @_ConnectedFM,

01:30:45 ◼   ► and it's the only account that's updated.

01:30:48 ◼   ► Well actually no, Jason does kind of,

01:30:50 ◼   ► he's taken the upgrade account

01:30:52 ◼   ► and does stuff with it, which is great.

01:30:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I gotta fire the other hosts.

01:30:56 ◼   ► - It's pretty much my fault, completely.

01:30:58 ◼   ► But hey ho, it's all good.

01:31:01 ◼   ► - Tally ho.

01:31:03 ◼   ► - Steven writes at 512pixels.net,

01:31:05 ◼   ► Better Eco writes maxstories.net,

01:31:09 ◼   ► and I host many shows on Real AFM.

01:31:11 ◼   ► Thank you so much for listening,

01:31:14 ◼   ► especially if you listen this far.

01:31:16 ◼   ► Like if you go this far,

01:31:18 ◼   ► I'm very proud of you because you know I do this bit every week and if you know

01:31:22 ◼   ► you've clearly stayed to see if there's anything special at the end and

01:31:25 ◼   ► there is something special special for you Kyle thanks so much for listening

01:31:30 ◼   ► we'll be back next time bye bye.

01:31:34 ◼   ► Adios.

01:31:35 ◼   ► Adios.

01:31:36 ◼   ► Oh thanks to our sponsors too Linda, Hover, ICONic, we love you.

01:31:40 ◼   ► Awesome people.