Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:05 ◼   ► From Relay FM, it's Connected, episode 23.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by lynda.com

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00:00:15 ◼   ► created by industry experts.

00:00:17 ◼   ► For a 10-day free trial, visit lynda.com/connected.

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00:00:23 ◼   ► Edit your PDFs from wherever you are.

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00:00:27 ◼   ► And automatic, drive safer, drive smarter.

00:00:31 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined as always by the one and only Mr Federico Vittucci.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Buona sera Myke.

00:00:39 ◼   ► Buona sera Federico.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Hello.

00:00:42 ◼   ► How are you?

00:00:43 ◼   ► I'm doing good.

00:00:44 ◼   ► It feels like it's been days since I talked to you but actually we like talked four hours

00:00:49 ◼   ► ago.

00:00:50 ◼   ► A couple of hours ago, yeah.

00:00:52 ◼   ► For our other show, the lovely production.

00:00:53 ◼   ► What can I say?

00:00:54 ◼   ► I feel your absence in my life.

00:00:57 ◼   ► That's very sweet of you to say Federico, thank you.

00:01:00 ◼   ► Speaking of absence, we are one man down this week.

00:01:07 ◼   ► Because our official relay FM genius/MacExpert/American friend.

00:01:17 ◼   ► The keeper of the follow up.

00:01:20 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett is not here.

00:01:22 ◼   ► He is not deceased, that's still only you Myke.

00:01:26 ◼   ► Okay only I am deceased.

00:01:29 ◼   ► We decided that maybe he's cheating on us with another podcast, but we have yet to work

00:01:35 ◼   ► out which one.

00:01:36 ◼   ► We have a theory that he has another podcast, and when he says he's not here, he actually

00:01:41 ◼   ► hangs out with another Skype account.

00:01:43 ◼   ► He just pretends to be somebody else.

00:01:45 ◼   ► He puts on a fake accent.

00:01:48 ◼   ► He pretends to be Canadian, I think.

00:01:50 ◼   ► Yep, earlier on in the chatroom before the show, @Saidor in the chatroom believed that

00:02:00 ◼   ► maybe Steven has permanently joined MacPower users.

00:02:04 ◼   ► That could be a nice theory, yes, probably.

00:02:09 ◼   ► But my response to that was in Steven's dreams, he's joined MacPower users.

00:02:16 ◼   ► Sick burn, Myke.

00:02:19 ◼   ► So speaking, because Steven is not here, I feel like it's necessary, Michael, for you

00:02:26 ◼   ► to bring us into the follow-up.

00:02:28 ◼   ► So I have a couple of issues with this.

00:02:31 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:32 ◼   ► With the follow-up, with working our way towards FU.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So Steven...

00:02:38 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:39 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:41 ◼   ► No, thank you.

00:02:42 ◼   ► Steven put together this follow-up for us.

00:02:44 ◼   ► I asked if he would help out, considering he's on another podcast today.

00:02:49 ◼   ► And he did that.

00:02:51 ◼   ► But the problem, since Steven has kind of become the keeper of the follow-up, the follow-up

00:02:56 ◼   ► designator, and he has like perpetuated this old browser thing, we're now getting loads

00:03:03 ◼   ► and loads of tweets, show notes in old browsers.

00:03:05 ◼   ► And I'm going to get to those shortly.

00:03:07 ◼   ► But I don't understand what anything means.

00:03:10 ◼   ► All of the words don't mean anything to me.

00:03:12 ◼   ► And he's like, for him, they mean everything.

00:03:14 ◼   ► to me. It's like, I don't know what this is about.

00:03:16 ◼   ► It's like, it's like when, um, when you're like a teenager and your parents tell you

00:03:20 ◼   ► that they're going on a, like on a brief vacation and they instruct you to, to maintain the

00:03:26 ◼   ► house and to tell you like, you gotta, you gotta water the plants and you gotta do this

00:03:30 ◼   ► and you gotta do that. And you don't understand. And like they, they leave you instructions

00:03:34 ◼   ► and you don't follow them. This is how I feel when Steven leaves, leaves us notes in the

00:03:39 ◼   ► follow-up. He's the adult one, he's the grown-up, and he tells us to do stuff and we're left

00:03:46 ◼   ► with these weird browsers running on virtual machines or whatever. So yeah, we will try

00:03:53 ◼   ► our best, Myke.

00:03:56 ◼   ► It's a scary prospect for me, but I'm gonna give it my best shot, Federico. I think that's

00:04:04 ◼   ► all he would have wanted.

00:04:06 ◼   ► Yes, this is Steven's will to do a proper follow-up.

00:04:13 ◼   ► So I must honor his wishes.

00:04:15 ◼   ► The first piece of follow-up is maybe directed at your lovely self.

00:04:20 ◼   ► Do you remember we were talking about that app Burstio that took burst photos and turned

00:04:25 ◼   ► them into GIFs?

00:04:26 ◼   ► It actually saves to the camera roll automatically, which is why you couldn't find it.

00:04:32 ◼   ► Well, in my defense, it actually creates an album.

00:04:35 ◼   ► So who creates an album?

00:04:37 ◼   ► Come on.

00:04:38 ◼   ► I mean, I just…

00:04:39 ◼   ► Instagram.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Instagram too as well.

00:04:41 ◼   ► I think it still shows up in the camera roll, but then it also creates an album.

00:04:44 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:04:45 ◼   ► I just, it's easy to miss, you know, because the app doesn't tell you and like there's

00:04:49 ◼   ► no notification or whatever.

00:04:50 ◼   ► I just didn't know.

00:04:51 ◼   ► So there's nothing you can do about it.

00:04:54 ◼   ► But the Burstio app torturer account contacted us to tell us.

00:04:57 ◼   ► So thank you, Burstio.

00:04:59 ◼   ► But you should make it clearer in your application.

00:05:01 ◼   ► That is our feedback upon your feedback.

00:05:04 ◼   ► So thank you.

00:05:07 ◼   ► We have...

00:05:08 ◼   ► Okay, so this...

00:05:09 ◼   ► You can do this, Myke.

00:05:10 ◼   ► I'm scared.

00:05:11 ◼   ► Right, so we have our show notes in other browsers section of the follow-up.

00:05:15 ◼   ► If this was upgrade, it would be called a vertical, but this isn't upgrade.

00:05:19 ◼   ► So here we are.

00:05:21 ◼   ► We have @tr4656.

00:05:22 ◼   ► This is you, Fan.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I believe...

00:05:24 ◼   ► Let me just open each link alongside you.

00:05:28 ◼   ► I'll be like holding your hand in the follow-up.

00:05:30 ◼   ► I feel a lot better now.

00:05:32 ◼   ► So, Yifan, I think he sent us in a few things before.

00:05:35 ◼   ► This is connected on Windows Phone 8.1.

00:05:38 ◼   ► - Okay, okay, I understand this.

00:05:40 ◼   ► - So this looks really bad considering--

00:05:43 ◼   ► - Kinda ugly.

00:05:44 ◼   ► - It looks terrible considering it's a current web browser.

00:05:47 ◼   ► I'm really scared about the way this looks,

00:05:49 ◼   ► but sorry Windows Phone.

00:05:51 ◼   ► And then Yifan also actually attached a GIF to his tweet

00:05:56 ◼   ► which shows that as soon as you load the live stream,

00:06:00 ◼   ► It crashes Windows Phone, it crashes the browser,

00:06:03 ◼   ► it crashes Internet Explorer, which is excellent

00:06:06 ◼   ► that that happens, but I'm gonna be completely honest

00:06:11 ◼   ► if you've heard of Ico, I don't intend to do anything

00:06:13 ◼   ► to try and fix that problem.

00:06:14 ◼   ► I'm sorry everyone, but I'm not interested in solving for that.

00:06:18 ◼   ► - Well, you're really gonna upset those 10 people

00:06:21 ◼   ► who use Windows Phone.

00:06:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I apologize to those people,

00:06:24 ◼   ► but it works everywhere else.

00:06:27 ◼   ► There's kind of, I don't know if I wanna spend the money

00:06:30 ◼   ► If anybody that uses Windows Phone would like to pay for the development time.

00:06:35 ◼   ► This is not a proper strategy, Myke.

00:06:38 ◼   ► You cannot ask users to pay for bug fixes.

00:06:41 ◼   ► Well, I'm just saying, I don't want to fix it.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Because it seems crazy.

00:06:48 ◼   ► It is a bit crazy.

00:06:50 ◼   ► It could be maybe just that specific device, I don't know.

00:06:54 ◼   ► Well, it's not going to even be a problem soon.

00:06:56 ◼   ► We'll talk about that a little later on in the show.

00:06:58 ◼   ► We have Ken Matthews considering all the conversation that we had about Blackberry last week.

00:07:04 ◼   ► He sent in what connected page looks like on a Blackberry bold.

00:07:09 ◼   ► It's really small.

00:07:12 ◼   ► I like how the webpage title goes into the status bar.

00:07:17 ◼   ► There's the title of the episode up there before the icons for Bluetooth and Signal.

00:07:25 ◼   ► The rest is kind of weird.

00:07:27 ◼   ► the menu goes into the icon on the right side?

00:07:31 ◼   ► There are some significant layout problems here.

00:07:33 ◼   ► There are some huge problems here.

00:07:35 ◼   ► The logo is only half of the logo.

00:07:37 ◼   ► If you would like to find the show notes

00:07:39 ◼   ► where you can find the images of the show notes,

00:07:43 ◼   ► then you should point your web browser at it.

00:07:45 ◼   ► What did you just say?

00:07:47 ◼   ► You want to find the show notes to find the show notes,

00:07:49 ◼   ► images of the show notes.

00:07:51 ◼   ► We've basically got a nesting doll situation happening here now.

00:07:54 ◼   ► Go to relay.fm/connected/23 and you will find that.

00:07:59 ◼   ► I'm putting those all in there.

00:08:01 ◼   ► And then we have...

00:08:03 ◼   ► Okay, so the last two links, Myke.

00:08:07 ◼   ► This is the one that I'm really concerned about.

00:08:09 ◼   ► Okay, we can do this. Come on.

00:08:11 ◼   ► So, four screenshots.

00:08:13 ◼   ► BOS 5.

00:08:15 ◼   ► So, BOS, I think, used to be an OS, right?

00:08:19 ◼   ► It used to be DOS that Apple was rumored to acquire many, many years ago, but actually

00:08:28 ◼   ► they went with Next Step.

00:08:29 ◼   ► I'm getting so many details wrong.

00:08:31 ◼   ► Yeah, see?

00:08:32 ◼   ► See?

00:08:33 ◼   ► This is why you shouldn't get into these things, yeah.

00:08:35 ◼   ► No, no, I'm pretty sure I once read an article on Ars Technica about the fact that basically,

00:08:43 ◼   ► Back in the 90s, Geeks really liked BOS and I'm fairly certain of the fact that Jean-Louis

00:08:58 ◼   ► Gassé, the guy who writes Monday Note, he went from Apple to BOS.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Because geeks really liked BOS, Apple was rumored to be considering an acquisition,

00:09:15 ◼   ► but it never happened.

00:09:16 ◼   ► And so, like two years ago, I read this article about people who still use BOS because they

00:09:22 ◼   ► like the interface, they like the icons and whatever, but it never happened.

00:09:28 ◼   ► QNX Neutrino.

00:09:30 ◼   ► So what we have is also--

00:09:32 ◼   ► Laurent, who sent in these screenshots,

00:09:34 ◼   ► clarified with some other information.

00:09:38 ◼   ► So on BOS, it's net positive is the name of the browser.

00:09:43 ◼   ► In QNX, it's Voyager.

00:09:47 ◼   ► And then we also have a next step, 3.3, and it's in OmniWeb.

00:09:53 ◼   ► So we have QNX Neutrino.

00:09:55 ◼   ► I don't know anything about that.

00:09:57 ◼   ► I mean, next step.

00:09:58 ◼   ► I mean, OK, I'm familiar with that.

00:10:00 ◼   ► Omniweb, I know yeah. Yeah, we know what I like most about all of this though

00:10:06 ◼   ► Is there the reply to this tweet? It's just even saying whoa in all capitals and I don't know why I don't know why

00:10:12 ◼   ► But I'm really happy that Laurent made Stephen so happy

00:10:16 ◼   ► and I hope that it makes others happy - I

00:10:19 ◼   ► Like that Laurent went to the trouble I genuinely do but I feel like I feel like something's lost on me

00:10:26 ◼   ► Look at Stephen is so happy so excited about it

00:10:30 ◼   ► And I'm not 100% sure what it is.

00:10:34 ◼   ► That's exciting him so much.

00:10:35 ◼   ► But I don't know how much trouble

00:10:37 ◼   ► Lauren must have gone through to get these screenshots,

00:10:40 ◼   ► but I appreciate, as we do with everybody

00:10:42 ◼   ► who sends in, for some insane reason

00:10:45 ◼   ► that I'm not really sure how this happened,

00:10:47 ◼   ► but I love that everybody sends in these every week.

00:10:49 ◼   ► If anybody now can tell us how this began,

00:10:53 ◼   ► I would quite like to know that now,

00:10:56 ◼   ► 'cause I'm becoming very intrigued

00:10:59 ◼   ► as to how we pivoted from the photo management show

00:11:03 ◼   ► to the really old browsers show.

00:11:05 ◼   ► - What if we somehow pivoted into

00:11:09 ◼   ► like an old browser museum?

00:11:13 ◼   ► - At this point, we are collecting quite,

00:11:16 ◼   ► - Screenshots from people.

00:11:19 ◼   ► So it's like the licensing is all good, right?

00:11:24 ◼   ► We have no problems with licensing and with credit.

00:11:28 ◼   ► We have quite an amazing collection of all original content.

00:11:34 ◼   ► We could consider becoming a nonprofit organization for show notes, screenshots.

00:11:40 ◼   ► >> Preservation.

00:11:42 ◼   ► >> Yes.

00:11:42 ◼   ► >> We are the committee for web browser preservation.

00:11:46 ◼   ► >> Yes. >> That's what we are now.

00:11:48 ◼   ► >> Steven is going to be like the spiritual advisor.

00:11:54 ◼   ► We can take all the money.

00:11:56 ◼   ► - He could be like just a historian

00:11:58 ◼   ► and then like you could be the treasurer

00:12:00 ◼   ► and I could be another position in the museum.

00:12:04 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:12:05 ◼   ► - You could be like the voice that announces.

00:12:08 ◼   ► - Oh, I could do like the audio tour.

00:12:09 ◼   ► And now we find QNX.

00:12:15 ◼   ► If you take a look over to the right,

00:12:17 ◼   ► you will find OmniWeb, Next Step 3.3.

00:12:21 ◼   ► - And there's all like,

00:12:22 ◼   ► There's people like Kyle and Joe walking around with headphones and just looking at screenshots

00:12:28 ◼   ► of web browsers.

00:12:29 ◼   ► People are like, "Hmm, hmm."

00:12:30 ◼   ► They're looking at the images.

00:12:31 ◼   ► They're like, "Oh, can you see?

00:12:32 ◼   ► Do you see the way that they chose to design the lines?"

00:12:35 ◼   ► And Stephen sits in a cubicle and he organizes emails and PDFs with his workflows.

00:12:44 ◼   ► And then he prints out the screenshots of old browsers and he goes out and he wears

00:12:49 ◼   ► like a hat, you know, because he's the guardian of the museum and he has these pictures on

00:12:56 ◼   ► the walls.

00:12:57 ◼   ► And he has like a cape, which is like a patchwork quilt with all different icons of different

00:13:04 ◼   ► browsers and he wears that, he just walks around the museum with his long cape and his

00:13:09 ◼   ► hat on.

00:13:10 ◼   ► What are we doing?

00:13:11 ◼   ► Myke!

00:13:12 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:15 ◼   ► - He's never gonna miss another show.

00:13:17 ◼   ► Next time if Steven can't do an episode,

00:13:20 ◼   ► he'll just be like, "We have to move it."

00:13:22 ◼   ► He's never gonna let us do this again.

00:13:25 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:13:25 ◼   ► - Right, we're only halfway through the follow up.

00:13:28 ◼   ► The only way we can ground ourselves now

00:13:29 ◼   ► is by talking about one of our fine sponsors

00:13:31 ◼   ► for this week's episode.

00:13:32 ◼   ► Our friends over at lynda.com

00:13:35 ◼   ► are back to support Connected once again.

00:13:37 ◼   ► You know lynda.com.

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00:14:14 ◼   ► you want to try and make some money, you know, with a little side project.

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00:14:40 ◼   ► have interesting courses that I've watched on Logic Pro.

00:14:43 ◼   ► It helped me kind of get a handle

00:14:44 ◼   ► for some of the editing tools and how to use that.

00:14:47 ◼   ► They do have some podcast production stuff as well,

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00:14:55 ◼   ► Do you remember the great documentary, Helvetica, Federico?

00:15:00 ◼   ► - Yes, of course. - That's on

00:15:01 ◼   ► lynda.com as well.

00:15:02 ◼   ► So that documentary is part of like a trilogy

00:15:06 ◼   ► of documentaries and they are all on lynda.com.

00:15:09 ◼   ► Do something good for yourself this year and sign up for a free 10-day trial to Lindo.com

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00:15:21 ◼   ► this show.

00:15:22 ◼   ► Thank you so much to lindo.com for supporting connected and all of Relay FM.

00:15:27 ◼   ► So do you remember a few weeks ago I was talking about that phone that I went to see called

00:15:32 ◼   ► the Yota phone?

00:15:33 ◼   ► Yeah, the one with the e-ink display in the back.

00:15:39 ◼   ► This is just a piece of follow-up.

00:15:41 ◼   ► TechCrunch reviewed it this week and they reviewed it quite well, so I just wanted to put it

00:15:45 ◼   ► in there because it has a lot more information, it has some demos and stuff, so if people

00:15:49 ◼   ► were interested.

00:15:51 ◼   ► And they basically came to a similar sort of conclusion that I did.

00:15:54 ◼   ► It's really interesting and it's not just a gimmick.

00:15:58 ◼   ► There's some real kind of practical applications for the e-ink screen and why it would exist.

00:16:03 ◼   ► You know, not just like for reading stuff, but also for incredible battery saving power.

00:16:08 ◼   ► But it's expensive.

00:16:09 ◼   ► It's really expensive to get your hands on one.

00:16:12 ◼   ► It's like $850.

00:16:15 ◼   ► Because you have to import it and I think it's only sold in Europe right now.

00:16:19 ◼   ► So when you convert it, it's kind of a crazy price and they're only doing it in SIM free.

00:16:24 ◼   ► So just an interesting thing.

00:16:26 ◼   ► And one last piece of follow up today.

00:16:28 ◼   ► I am so excited and so happy that we've launched a brand new show on Relay FM called Rocket.

00:16:34 ◼   ► Rocket is a show that's covering technology, it's covering pop culture stuff like movies

00:16:41 ◼   ► and games and books and stuff like that.

00:16:43 ◼   ► And we have a trio of fantastic hosts for the show.

00:16:45 ◼   ► We have Brianna Wu, Christina Warren, and Simone de Rochefort.

00:16:49 ◼   ► They're three awesome women who have really great powerful voices and the sort of conversation

00:16:56 ◼   ► that's happening on Rocket, you're not gonna hear anywhere else because they

00:16:58 ◼   ► come from a like a totally different place you know they have totally

00:17:02 ◼   ► different opinions. I just love it. Episode one was talking about like 3d

00:17:07 ◼   ► printed cars, it spoke about Ant-Man and there's also a great story about how

00:17:12 ◼   ► Christina Warren effectively ruined Brianna Wu's life a few years ago. I

00:17:17 ◼   ► won't say any more than that. It's a great open. It's a fantastic show. We're gonna

00:17:22 ◼   ► have another new episode this week. You should go check it out if you haven't

00:17:26 ◼   ► already at relay.fm/rocket and subscribe because it's well worth your time.

00:17:32 ◼   ► Topic 0 today.

00:17:33 ◼   ► Okay.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Federico.

00:17:35 ◼   ► We're still doing the 0, 0.5, 1, 1.5.

00:17:39 ◼   ► We basically turned the show notes into Facebook's numbering version.

00:17:43 ◼   ► Yep.

00:17:44 ◼   ► Today we have topic 0, we have topic 0.5, we have topic 0.5.1, then topic 1 and topic

00:17:49 ◼   ► 2.

00:17:51 ◼   ► Okay.

00:17:52 ◼   ► We can do this, Myke.

00:17:54 ◼   ► So could you tell me, there was a Lauren Bricter interview that was published on...

00:18:02 ◼   ► How would you...

00:18:03 ◼   ► Object.io.

00:18:04 ◼   ► I think it was this week or last week.

00:18:11 ◼   ► Could you tell me the interesting things and why people should go and read this article?

00:18:15 ◼   ► It's a really...

00:18:17 ◼   ► So Lauren is the guy who made Twitter.

00:18:22 ◼   ► went to work for Twitter and then he made a letterpress and now he's basically been

00:18:26 ◼   ► kind of absent from the iOS Mac development scene for the past year. He's a pioneer, right, of many

00:18:35 ◼   ► many interactions on mobile devices and the interview is really great because

00:18:42 ◼   ► like Lauren talks about the fact that he's kind of become, I wouldn't say unhappy with

00:18:51 ◼   ► with the state of the App Store and innovation in mobile apps,

00:18:56 ◼   ► but just a little bit maybe disillusioned?

00:19:02 ◼   ► Is that a word?

00:19:03 ◼   ► Yeah, disillusioned.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't believe that innovation will happen on the App

00:19:11 ◼   ► Store in the future.

00:19:12 ◼   ► It thinks that software has become

00:19:14 ◼   ► something that's much bigger than iPhone apps or iPad apps.

00:19:19 ◼   ► It's a different take, it's probably not what I was expecting from Lauren.

00:19:25 ◼   ► He says that he's been working on some software and you know kinda under the hood stuff that

00:19:31 ◼   ► we won't see anytime soon, some low level technologies.

00:19:35 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that knowing the guy it's probably something graphics related because

00:19:41 ◼   ► he loves to do this kind of like for letterpress for instance.

00:19:44 ◼   ► He built the entire game from a graphics engine.

00:19:49 ◼   ► So he's been doing some low level work.

00:19:53 ◼   ► We don't know about what.

00:19:55 ◼   ► But I guess the main theme of the interview is becoming like moving away from the app

00:20:02 ◼   ► store.

00:20:03 ◼   ► It's an unusual opinion, I think.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I didn't quite like how he decided to end the interview and saying that everything that

00:20:13 ◼   ► he made in the past stinks, he says.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Because while I understand the feeling that you look back at your previous work and the

00:20:25 ◼   ► stuff that you made two or three or four or five years ago and you say "oh my god, this

00:20:30 ◼   ► stuff sucks", I understand the feeling.

00:20:36 ◼   ► But not entirely because, I mean, it's pretty objective that Lauren made great work in the

00:20:42 ◼   ► past.

00:20:43 ◼   ► So I think he's setting himself too short because the features, the design choices that

00:20:49 ◼   ► Lauren had, they're being used today by millions of people like Pull to Refresh.

00:20:55 ◼   ► Even Apple is using Pull to Refresh.

00:20:58 ◼   ► I think Lauren did great work in the past.

00:21:04 ◼   ► It doesn't have to look back and say everything I made stink because while maybe personally

00:21:10 ◼   ► he feels this way, I think that the recognition that he had and the popularity that he enjoys

00:21:17 ◼   ► is absolutely well deserved. So it is maybe a little too negative.

00:21:24 ◼   ► He's too harsh on himself.

00:21:25 ◼   ► He's too harsh on himself, yeah. But it's a great interview, go check it out. I read

00:21:32 ◼   ► it I think last week, I saw many people linked to it and it's absolutely a great piece.

00:21:40 ◼   ► So topic 0.5, Myke.

00:21:41 ◼   ► Do you want to tell me what's up with Evernote?

00:21:44 ◼   ► Yeah, I kind of just want to mention this to kind of set the stage for the next thing

00:21:49 ◼   ► that I wanted to ask you.

00:21:51 ◼   ► Evernote this week have announced that they're kind of cutting support for a bunch of their

00:21:55 ◼   ► lesser used products.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Like they have a couple of standalone apps called Peek and Hello, which haven't really

00:22:02 ◼   ► seemed to do anything for them.

00:22:04 ◼   ► And they're also dropping support for the BlackBerry 7-inch Playbook.

00:22:10 ◼   ► So the thought of this might be that they may be starting to trim the fat a little bit,

00:22:16 ◼   ► maybe trying to focus a little bit more, which could be a good thing.

00:22:19 ◼   ► I know that we've had some issues with Evernote in the past.

00:22:25 ◼   ► So it feels like the right thing to do, to focus on the main product.

00:22:31 ◼   ► So basically it just took me through, you mentioned in our Slack chat the other day

00:22:35 ◼   ► that you were doing this, so it's kind of like I was thinking about web services and

00:22:38 ◼   ► kind of like scaling back, and I remember that you said that you had kind of done a

00:22:43 ◼   ► bit of a spring clean of the web services that you pay for.

00:22:47 ◼   ► So would you be able to tell us what you've cut out for 2015 and why you've done that?

00:22:55 ◼   ► Yeah, basically my main problem is that because of my job I tend to try a lot of stuff, even

00:23:02 ◼   ► after I've settled on a service or an app, because I always want to see how apps or services

00:23:11 ◼   ► are changing.

00:23:13 ◼   ► Sometimes innovation happens in small doses, and maybe you see a feature here and another

00:23:19 ◼   ► feature there, and suddenly that feature is being used by everyone.

00:23:23 ◼   ► So I like to be ahead of the curve in a way.

00:23:26 ◼   ► So that means I need to try a lot of things.

00:23:29 ◼   ► And it's an investment for me, so I don't complain, but I reach a point where I'm probably

00:23:36 ◼   ► signed up for like a dozen services and I only use half of those.

00:23:40 ◼   ► So unless I want to waste money, which I don't want to, I need to cancel those subscriptions.

00:23:47 ◼   ► And it's never personal.

00:23:49 ◼   ► I just, you know, I'm a human being.

00:23:52 ◼   ► I like to save money.

00:23:53 ◼   ► I don't want to waste money because I'm not a billionaire.

00:23:57 ◼   ► So a few weeks ago I told you and our friend Steven that I was trying Zapier for web automation,

00:24:07 ◼   ► but I also told you guys that I wasn't sure about web automation because I was struggling

00:24:12 ◼   ► to come up with ideas to connect all these different web services to do stuff for me.

00:24:19 ◼   ► So after a month of trying Zapier, I realised, I confirmed my initial suspicion that basically

00:24:28 ◼   ► it's nice that I can put together all these recipes on the web, but I don't want to pay

00:24:35 ◼   ► for that.

00:24:36 ◼   ► I don't want to pay $20.

00:24:38 ◼   ► And I don't depend on these web automations.

00:24:44 ◼   ► one day when I will have stuff like connected devices around the house or maybe when I will

00:24:51 ◼   ► use, I don't know, maybe some invoicing software on the web, maybe it'll be of use to me.

00:24:59 ◼   ► But today, I mean, it's nice that I can connect my email to Dropbox and that kind of stuff,

00:25:05 ◼   ► but I just don't have enough triggers, I guess, in my life or in my work life in general to

00:25:12 ◼   ► justify this kind of expense.

00:25:16 ◼   ► The other one is Fit Wrangler because I'm using NewsBlur and from what I'm seeing I

00:25:26 ◼   ► will stick with NewsBlur because of the many other great features that I mentioned for

00:25:31 ◼   ► the past two weeks.

00:25:33 ◼   ► So I cannot cancel Fitly because I paid for a lifetime pro subscriptions two years ago.

00:25:40 ◼   ► I would also cancel Fiddly if I were on the annual plan, but I cannot, so I'm not using

00:25:45 ◼   ► Fiddler Angular, it's a great service, just I'm happier with NewsBlur right now.

00:25:52 ◼   ► And I think also in the future.

00:25:54 ◼   ► iTunes Match, I just don't use iTunes Match, I just don't listen to music in iTunes anymore.

00:26:03 ◼   ► I will probably just keep those few albums that are not available on Spotify or music

00:26:11 ◼   ► streaming services, I will just buy them from iTunes and keep them locally.

00:26:16 ◼   ► I even went through a whole process like last year to sign up for iTunes Match from Italy

00:26:23 ◼   ► using my US account.

00:26:24 ◼   ► I don't even want to.

00:26:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it was awful.

00:26:29 ◼   ► So yeah, I don't use iTunes Match.

00:26:33 ◼   ► My music listening habits have completely switched over to music streaming and YouTube.

00:26:39 ◼   ► I realize that it sounds like hell to people who still buy albums and music in the traditional

00:26:49 ◼   ► way, but yes, I do listen only to streaming and YouTube.

00:26:56 ◼   ► The next one is interesting, MailDeck.

00:26:59 ◼   ► MailDeck is this mail client for iOS that I bought in September, I think.

00:27:09 ◼   ► It looked really professional.

00:27:12 ◼   ► It looked like a serious email client with search and all these different shortcuts.

00:27:19 ◼   ► The interface was kind of ugly, but my understanding was that beyond the ugliness there was real

00:27:27 ◼   ► power user stuff.

00:27:30 ◼   ► But I never really used it, like I used it for a week, it was probably an impulse buy

00:27:36 ◼   ► decision.

00:27:38 ◼   ► Anyway, Instapaper, because I'm using Pocket, so I plan to keep trying Pocket and see how

00:27:50 ◼   ► it works, because I like to take my time, when I decide to switch over and to compare

00:27:57 ◼   ► I will probably sign up again for ISDA paper later this year to see what's changed.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Many of these services I still have subscriptions active until May or October.

00:28:12 ◼   ► So I can come back.

00:28:15 ◼   ► The last one, which was...

00:28:18 ◼   ► I thought about this one a lot.

00:28:22 ◼   ► I used to have two Mac Minis on Mac Mini Colu.

00:28:27 ◼   ► One is for Mac Sorrys and I will never touch that one, at least not in the short term.

00:28:33 ◼   ► But I also had another loaned Mac Mini, just for me, like a personal Mini, that back in

00:28:41 ◼   ► the day when I used to have a slower Wi-Fi connection at home and I didn't have all these

00:28:48 ◼   ► automated workflows on iOS.

00:28:51 ◼   ► I used to rely on this personal mini for things like Plex or updating my iTunes match library

00:28:59 ◼   ► because it was faster and syncing Dropbox because it was super fast and you know like

00:29:06 ◼   ► image scripting, image uploads, all that kind of stuff that I can do on iOS now.

00:29:12 ◼   ► So I was paying this $35 a month for a mini that I was not really using.

00:29:19 ◼   ► So right now I've consolidated, I guess, my workflow on iOS and music streaming, it's

00:29:26 ◼   ► on Spotify, I don't use iTunes Match, Dropbox is fast enough on my new Wi-Fi connection

00:29:33 ◼   ► at home, I have 4G on all my devices, I don't need this other mini anymore.

00:29:38 ◼   ► So that's also gone.

00:29:40 ◼   ► The main, I know that you want to ask me, Myke, why do I do this?

00:29:46 ◼   ► Why do you go through and do all this sort of stuff?

00:29:49 ◼   ► To save money, because I need money, because I need to pay the bills, I need to pay the

00:29:56 ◼   ► rent.

00:29:57 ◼   ► And yeah, I mean, I like to try stuff.

00:30:00 ◼   ► I like to support the developers.

00:30:02 ◼   ► I'm just, you know, I cannot support everybody in this world.

00:30:07 ◼   ► I would like to support everybody, but at the end of the day I'm just a single guy.

00:30:15 ◼   ► So when I try stuff and I make a decision, I cannot afford to pay everyone.

00:30:23 ◼   ► Because otherwise…

00:30:24 ◼   ► No, you can't.

00:30:25 ◼   ► There's no way you can do that.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Because, yeah, you don't magic money.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Like you are at the end of the day, like you are just a guy who makes money with his job.

00:30:34 ◼   ► It doesn't make a difference where you come from, but you kind of just have to you have to make

00:30:39 ◼   ► cautious and smart decisions like like anybody does I guess

00:30:43 ◼   ► This could probably be I realize an analog segment. Yeah, but but there's a like there's a

00:30:49 ◼   ► like when I do this I

00:30:52 ◼   ► feel like a jerk sometimes because

00:30:56 ◼   ► Especially when I choose the bigger service

00:31:02 ◼   ► over the small nice utility made by someone I know and

00:31:07 ◼   ► There's like an inner voice inside me then that says oh my god

00:31:11 ◼   ► You're such an idiot for choosing the app from the big company instead of giving your money to this

00:31:17 ◼   ► You know small guy who makes a living out of selling apps

00:31:21 ◼   ► And I feel like I think it's an empathy problem

00:31:25 ◼   ► And I realize it's really peculiar because it's a super niche

00:31:31 ◼   ► problem you you're basically overthinking the fact that you're giving your money to this company instead of this guy

00:31:39 ◼   ► Right. It's a super niche problem that most people in the world

00:31:43 ◼   ► I guess if you're outside of this tax circle, they will never understand or have this problem

00:31:49 ◼   ► But it's something that I go through like like I think about this and when I when I when I hit the cancel button

00:31:55 ◼   ► I'm like is this guy gonna like this guy gonna start is this guy gonna gonna

00:32:01 ◼   ► You know, will he be able to buy food for his family?

00:32:05 ◼   ► Oh, the dog, man.

00:32:06 ◼   ► Don't forget the dog.

00:32:08 ◼   ► And the dog.

00:32:09 ◼   ► Oh my god, the dog.

00:32:11 ◼   ► I know it's super, like, people will make fun of me.

00:32:16 ◼   ► I just think about these things, you know, because I feel bad.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Feeling bad is something that I do often for all kinds of things.

00:32:25 ◼   ► And subscriptions are one of those.

00:32:27 ◼   ► Right.

00:32:28 ◼   ► want to talk Federico about the Microsoft event that happened today. I didn't expect

00:32:33 ◼   ► that we would be, but there was actually a ton of relatively, in some instances, very

00:32:38 ◼   ► interesting things that came out of that. So we should definitely talk about that. But

00:32:42 ◼   ► before we do, I want to welcome a new sponsor to Connected, and that's our friends over

00:32:46 ◼   ► at Automattic. Automattic is a connected car adapter. It plugs into your car's diagnostic

00:32:51 ◼   ► port, the one that your mechanic uses. Every single car since '96 has had one of these

00:32:56 ◼   ► ports so you're going to have one in your car I'm going to bet. And then what you do

00:33:00 ◼   ► is you plug it in, so you plug it into this I think it's called the ODB port, I think

00:33:05 ◼   ► it's called that, and then it pairs to your phone when you drive and connects your car

00:33:09 ◼   ► to the internet. Now connecting your car to the internet sounds lovely, but what does

00:33:13 ◼   ► that mean? What does it do? Well, you use the automatic app, so automatic is a free

00:33:19 ◼   ► companion app in the app store and it shows you things like, say your check engine light

00:33:23 ◼   ► comes on. Well the automatic app will explain to you in plain English what the

00:33:26 ◼   ► situation is and if it's just a small problem that it's nothing to worry about

00:33:30 ◼   ► you can clear the light right from the phone so you can just be like yeah okay

00:33:34 ◼   ► no problem and it will just clear and then the light will go off on the dash.

00:33:37 ◼   ► It will take a log of all of your trips and keep your parking location so you

00:33:42 ◼   ► will never lose your car again when you're looking for a multi-story car

00:33:44 ◼   ► park. After a long day buying ingredients to make pasta at home you're never going

00:33:50 ◼   ► lose your car again because it's going to be all located for you in the automatic app.

00:33:55 ◼   ► It gives you feedback on your driving, so this can make sure that you're driving less

00:33:58 ◼   ► aggressively and also help you save on gas which is really cool.

00:34:02 ◼   ► It gives you scores and stuff like that so you can monitor how you do over time, try

00:34:06 ◼   ► and beat your own score.

00:34:07 ◼   ► Automatic can even detect a crash and call for help for free.

00:34:11 ◼   ► So there's a bunch of things that will happen to a car obviously in a crash and cars can

00:34:15 ◼   ► detect this, the automatic can detect this.

00:34:18 ◼   ► so they will call for help for you and a human will stay on the line with you until help

00:34:21 ◼   ► arrives.

00:34:22 ◼   ► Automatic can even integrate with your Nest thermostat so it can heat your home just in

00:34:37 ◼   ► time for your arrival and it can connect to countless other services like Google Docs,

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00:35:23 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Automatic for their support of this show and Relay FM.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Pretty sweet right?

00:35:32 ◼   ► One of my... like I'm sad because I cannot use the automatic in Italy and I know that

00:35:40 ◼   ► there's people who bought an automatic and like they hacked around a way to make it work.

00:35:47 ◼   ► Like I really want to try this because it feels like again cost savings, monitoring

00:35:54 ◼   ► how you drive and your route and GPS stuff like it's right up my alley for things that

00:36:00 ◼   ► I want to try. I'm waiting for support for European cars, so hopefully in the future.

00:36:07 ◼   ► I know that there's also people in Italy who found a way to use a Nest, the thermostat.

00:36:14 ◼   ► And I'm too scared to buy a Nest and mess around with the cables here, because I have

00:36:20 ◼   ► a thermostat, it's ugly and it sucks and the user experience is terrible. I'm not good

00:36:27 ◼   ► with this sort of electrical stuff.

00:36:30 ◼   ► I should probably invite Dr. Drang over at my house

00:36:33 ◼   ► and connect this for me.

00:36:37 ◼   ► - You know you can hire someone

00:36:39 ◼   ► to just connect it for you though, right?

00:36:40 ◼   ► - No, no, I just, I don't want people in my house.

00:36:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:36:44 ◼   ► I'm kind of weird like that.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Unless I know like the plumber or, you know,

00:36:50 ◼   ► whoever is coming to fix my stuff.

00:36:54 ◼   ► I don't want to just pick up the phone

00:36:56 ◼   ► and call someone on the Yellow Pages, you know?

00:37:01 ◼   ► Feels gross.

00:37:04 ◼   ► - Maybe you need to find a friend.

00:37:05 ◼   ► - I always have friends for that reason.

00:37:08 ◼   ► I have a friend who basically repainted my walls.

00:37:13 ◼   ► I have my dad who fix a lot of things here.

00:37:18 ◼   ► I have a plumber I know.

00:37:20 ◼   ► I realize that this is probably bad for the economy.

00:37:25 ◼   ► I just don't want people in my house.

00:37:26 ◼   ► Well, I don't know if it's bad for the economy.

00:37:32 ◼   ► I might be stretching it a little too far because you won't let an electrician in to

00:37:35 ◼   ► install a Nest.

00:37:36 ◼   ► I wouldn't worry about that too much.

00:37:39 ◼   ► So today, as we record, which is the 21st of January 2014, Microsoft had an event today

00:37:48 ◼   ► and the main part of the event is like the kind of evolution of Windows.

00:37:52 ◼   ► So this is Windows 10 we're going to be talking about today.

00:37:56 ◼   ► So I watched like 75% of the presentation, caught up on the rest via The Verge and their

00:38:05 ◼   ► live blog, I'll kind of caught up and then watch the video.

00:38:09 ◼   ► And I picked out a few things here Federico that I want us to talk about a little bit.

00:38:13 ◼   ► Some of the more interesting things.

00:38:16 ◼   ► Let me just say that I watched 0% of the presentation because I was at the Apple store, but I read

00:38:25 ◼   ► 100% of the blog posts on The Verge about it.

00:38:32 ◼   ► Then you've probably gotten the majority of it.

00:38:33 ◼   ► You probably had a better experience because this was very, very, very long.

00:38:37 ◼   ► Okay, so Windows 10 is going to be coming out later this year, and they're going to

00:38:42 ◼   ► start kind of betaing out. I think they're called the insider program. They send it out to

00:38:46 ◼   ► people that way so you can kind of get a test of it yourself. I think one of the

00:38:51 ◼   ► maybe one of the more most interesting things about this release of Windows is

00:38:56 ◼   ► totally on Microsoft Move. Windows 10 will be free for a year as an upgrade for

00:39:01 ◼   ► anybody that has Windows 7 or Windows 8. It's huge. So they're limiting it to

00:39:07 ◼   ► the first year I don't really know much more than that.

00:39:12 ◼   ► I mean I think that's kind of all they've said right now.

00:39:14 ◼   ► There was like an asterisk that said like terms apply.

00:39:17 ◼   ► But that's a big deal for Microsoft

00:39:19 ◼   ► to do something like that.

00:39:20 ◼   ► Windows has been like their main revenue driver

00:39:22 ◼   ► for so many, one of their main revenue drivers

00:39:24 ◼   ► for so many years and they're gonna be giving it away

00:39:26 ◼   ► to existing customers.

00:39:27 ◼   ► They clearly want to move people along

00:39:31 ◼   ► like in the same way that Apple did, right?

00:39:32 ◼   ► They wanted to move the needle for people

00:39:35 ◼   ► and get them forward and get everybody on the same ground

00:39:39 ◼   ► so they can really start to innovate the platform.

00:39:41 ◼   ► - It feels to me like the right thing to do.

00:39:45 ◼   ► - Definitely.

00:39:46 ◼   ► - Because you want people to enjoy, well,

00:39:49 ◼   ► and enjoy if it works, to enjoy the latest features,

00:39:52 ◼   ► to enjoy the kind of stuff that you're,

00:39:54 ◼   ► new apps, new designs, bug fixes.

00:40:00 ◼   ► I just don't know whether Microsoft is doing,

00:40:04 ◼   ► Like Apple, you can upgrade for free on all your devices forever because they are limiting

00:40:10 ◼   ► to the first year.

00:40:11 ◼   ► I don't understand what they only want to do the first year.

00:40:15 ◼   ► What happens after the first year?

00:40:16 ◼   ► You're gonna be forced to pay?

00:40:19 ◼   ► It doesn't make much sense to impose this sort of deadline on people.

00:40:25 ◼   ► I think this is them.

00:40:27 ◼   ► They don't want to maybe just say it's free for everyone forever and then they lose a

00:40:33 ◼   ► a ton of money. Because their business has been focused on it for so long, I understand

00:40:42 ◼   ► the idea of dipping their toe in the water a little bit. Because if it's a year, there's

00:40:47 ◼   ► still going to be a lot of their bigger clients, a lot of business probably wouldn't upgrade

00:40:51 ◼   ► in a year, so they'll still pay. I think they're just trying to understand what is the limit.

00:40:58 ◼   ► Do they give it for free forever or do they still try and make a little bit of money out

00:41:02 ◼   ► of the enterprise clients. So I think for them right now this is probably the

00:41:08 ◼   ► right thing to do because a lot of this stuff they kind of just want I would

00:41:12 ◼   ► assume the consumer to move mainly and a year for a consumer is most likely

00:41:19 ◼   ► to do it if they're ever gonna do it. The start menus back. So can you can tell me

00:41:26 ◼   ► what's the start menu?

00:41:29 ◼   ► - So you know on a Windows PC,

00:41:32 ◼   ► in the bottom left hand corner it says start

00:41:34 ◼   ► and you click it and it brings up like your list

00:41:37 ◼   ► of your apps and like recently used documents and stuff.

00:41:40 ◼   ► That went away with Windows 8 and it was just--

00:41:42 ◼   ► - Really?

00:41:43 ◼   ► - Well you know they had the Metro interface,

00:41:45 ◼   ► which is like the big chunky blocks and the colors

00:41:47 ◼   ► that covered, it was like full screen.

00:41:50 ◼   ► That was kind of what they wanted Windows to be

00:41:52 ◼   ► and then you could go into the main desktop mode

00:41:54 ◼   ► should have a start menu and be like old school.

00:41:57 ◼   ► Well, that was so poorly received by a lot of customers

00:42:00 ◼   ► that what they've done now is when you,

00:42:03 ◼   ► the view of Windows 10 looks like original Windows,

00:42:06 ◼   ► it has the task bar along the bottom

00:42:08 ◼   ► and it has the start menu in the bottom left.

00:42:10 ◼   ► But the start menu is now styled to look like Metro,

00:42:15 ◼   ► which I think is like modern UI or something.

00:42:18 ◼   ► We'll call it Metro, I know it's not called that,

00:42:20 ◼   ► but that's how we kind of, everybody refers to it,

00:42:22 ◼   ► we know it's Metro.

00:42:23 ◼   ► and so it's got the tiles and the updating.

00:42:27 ◼   ► So what you can do is you see that now

00:42:29 ◼   ► and you can see your apps there,

00:42:30 ◼   ► but you can also get information from the apps,

00:42:32 ◼   ► like your Web App will show the temperature on, for example,

00:42:34 ◼   ► and your Contacts App might show whatever,

00:42:36 ◼   ► like pictures of people.

00:42:37 ◼   ► But then you can then, if you want to,

00:42:40 ◼   ► stretch the Start menu out to be full screen

00:42:42 ◼   ► so you can see more information at once.

00:42:44 ◼   ► So it's basically inverting it,

00:42:46 ◼   ► which is probably a better thing

00:42:47 ◼   ► for the customers that are used to the platform.

00:42:51 ◼   ► It probably would have been better for them in hindsight

00:42:53 ◼   ► to have always done it this way, rather than trying to push people down a certain path,

00:42:57 ◼   ► they should have eased people into it this way.

00:42:59 ◼   ► If they would have changed the start menu, and then they encouraged people to make the

00:43:02 ◼   ► start menu bigger, and then in a year's time, they then made the main view of the OS in

00:43:08 ◼   ► that style, it probably would have ended up working out a bit better for them.

00:43:12 ◼   ► Instead, they basically...

00:43:16 ◼   ► It's like if Apple decided to make Launchpad the default view.

00:43:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean they were trying something new and they were trying, they would, I understand

00:43:25 ◼   ► that.

00:43:26 ◼   ► It was a UI change but it was probably too much too soon.

00:43:31 ◼   ► But my question is why would you make, why would you want to make the Start manual full

00:43:36 ◼   ► screen?

00:43:37 ◼   ► Right, because what they were trying to do was to create the Metro interface across all

00:43:40 ◼   ► devices which is what they're doing now anyway.

00:43:43 ◼   ► That's where it started.

00:43:45 ◼   ► So the easiest way to get all of your devices to look the same is to create an OS that in

00:43:48 ◼   ► theory around on all of them and that interface with the big chunky areas and the big block

00:43:56 ◼   ► color and stuff like that works on smaller devices so they figured they would probably,

00:44:01 ◼   ► I assume, just scale it across everyone.

00:44:04 ◼   ► I don't think it worked out the way that they wanted it to.

00:44:07 ◼   ► So now, going hand in hand with that idea is a new feature that they're calling Continuum.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Now this is Microsoft's effort to unify the OS across all platforms because where it looked

00:44:21 ◼   ► similar I think there were still some differences in Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

00:44:25 ◼   ► But the understanding is Windows 10 is the same OS on the desktop, on the mobile and

00:44:34 ◼   ► on tablets.

00:44:35 ◼   ► And they've hinted at, I think, that Xbox as well.

00:44:40 ◼   ► So across all Microsoft platforms we'll have Windows 10.

00:44:44 ◼   ► So it looks the way it does, I'm not massively personally interested in the way that Windows

00:44:49 ◼   ► 10 looks other than some of the features, but you can see all of that by following some

00:44:55 ◼   ► of the links that we have.

00:44:57 ◼   ► But one thing that I found quite interesting is 8 inch tablets, so 8 inch devices and up

00:45:02 ◼   ► look extremely familiar to the desktop and I think that's really weird because it has

00:45:07 ◼   ► a little taskbar and stuff and Joe Belfiore was showing an 8-inch tablet and it looked

00:45:15 ◼   ► like some of the touch targets were way too small and some of the interface elements were

00:45:19 ◼   ► too small and they've created a bunch of gestures to help you navigate around because they know

00:45:24 ◼   ► that maybe some of the touch targets are too small.

00:45:27 ◼   ► I think 8 inches is too small.

00:45:29 ◼   ► I think they should have maybe broken this off at like 10 or 12 but maybe they can still

00:45:34 ◼   ► refine that.

00:45:35 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Do you want to go on Federico?

00:45:38 ◼   ► No, I just want to say that I'm not a Windows expert of any sort.

00:45:45 ◼   ► I consider myself lucky enough to be out of the Windows scene for more than six years

00:45:52 ◼   ► now.

00:45:53 ◼   ► But in general, I think that making, whether it's an app or an OS, I'm always up…

00:46:04 ◼   ► Like I always prefer making something that is custom made, optimized specifically for

00:46:12 ◼   ► the destination, for the goal, for the device.

00:46:18 ◼   ► I have never bought into Microsoft, Microsoft's theory of let's make just one OS and make

00:46:24 ◼   ► that one OS, you know, the same.

00:46:28 ◼   ► Would you like to hear my armchair theory as to why I think they do this now?

00:46:32 ◼   ► Please, I want to listen to your stories.

00:46:37 ◼   ► When Microsoft were leading, they had Windows and then they had, what did they used to call

00:46:44 ◼   ► the phone OS?

00:46:46 ◼   ► Windows Phone?

00:46:48 ◼   ► Windows Mobile?

00:46:49 ◼   ► Windows Mobile, that's it.

00:46:51 ◼   ► They had Windows Mobile, which was kind of similar but it was more tailored for a mobile

00:46:55 ◼   ► device.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Apple came out with the iPhone and there was Android and they took a head and Microsoft

00:47:04 ◼   ► were trying to play catch up for years and every effort that they've had to create mobile

00:47:09 ◼   ► devices, tablets and phones and to have their partners with their tablets and phones, they're

00:47:15 ◼   ► just not gaining the traction that they would want.

00:47:18 ◼   ► And Satya Dadella, even before him, they know that growth continues to be immobile and for

00:47:24 ◼   ► as long as Microsoft are out of the mobile space, they're in a bad way.

00:47:29 ◼   ► One of Microsoft's main problems at the moment is they do not have

00:47:34 ◼   ► application support. App support is something that they're missing. Now in

00:47:40 ◼   ► creating one OS that goes across all devices, they create a universal app

00:47:47 ◼   ► development infrastructure and they create universal apps which nobody else

00:47:53 ◼   ► has tried to make. So an app that could run on the desktop, on the tablet and on

00:47:58 ◼   ► the phone, that's kind of the vision. So if they can do that they increase the

00:48:04 ◼   ► amount of developer support automatically for the phone and tablet. I

00:48:09 ◼   ► think that's the idea, I think that's why they do it. Because developers can then

00:48:13 ◼   ► attract three different platforms with one app. That's why I think they're doing

00:48:18 ◼   ► it. I could be completely wrong and I'm sure somebody can tell me if

00:48:22 ◼   ► I am and I'm sure we'll find out if we are, but that's when I look at this and like, why

00:48:26 ◼   ► would you do it?

00:48:27 ◼   ► That makes sense as a reason to do it to me because they're struggling to gain traction.

00:48:33 ◼   ► I think it makes sense, but it also sounds like the easy way out.

00:48:37 ◼   ► Oh, for sure.

00:48:38 ◼   ► But they've tried everything else at this point.

00:48:41 ◼   ► Yeah, because you need apps.

00:48:43 ◼   ► So let's just like remove friction from developers and let's just make sure they only need to

00:48:48 ◼   ► write an app once.

00:48:50 ◼   ► basically it feels like a way to inject apps into the Windows store catalog on phones and

00:49:00 ◼   ► tablets because developers are not making apps for those devices.

00:49:05 ◼   ► It feels like a way to basically use apps from the PC, you know, on these other devices

00:49:13 ◼   ► because they fail to gain traction.

00:49:15 ◼   ► So let's just use a universal language.

00:49:18 ◼   ► And I'm not sure whether this sort of shortcut, I mean, it makes sense.

00:49:23 ◼   ► It's pretty clever.

00:49:25 ◼   ► If the technology works well, congrats to Microsoft.

00:49:31 ◼   ► Will it be a quality choice?

00:49:34 ◼   ► Will it be great from the user experience perspective instead of having separate OSs

00:49:40 ◼   ► and developers writing custom apps for each device?

00:49:43 ◼   ► I'm sure you can still do an element of that, right?

00:49:46 ◼   ► Like, you can make a simple universal app for the iPhone, or you can put thought into

00:49:54 ◼   ► what each device means, you know?

00:49:58 ◼   ► And I think that, you know, like we see that with the phones, right?

00:50:01 ◼   ► So it's like where some developers put the thought to think about landscape view in the

00:50:05 ◼   ► 6 Plus.

00:50:06 ◼   ► You don't have to do that, but it's like the consideration that people put into it as to

00:50:10 ◼   ► to whether they want the device to,

00:50:12 ◼   ► let the app to shine on each device.

00:50:14 ◼   ► But I know like for a fact that Microsoft have kind of,

00:50:18 ◼   ► they've tried really, really hard

00:50:20 ◼   ► to get developers on the platform.

00:50:21 ◼   ► I have heard stories of Microsoft,

00:50:25 ◼   ► I mean, we've all heard them,

00:50:26 ◼   ► but I've heard from some people,

00:50:29 ◼   ► Microsoft going to developers

00:50:31 ◼   ► and offering them a ton of money

00:50:33 ◼   ► to develop for the Windows platform

00:50:35 ◼   ► and support and kind of resources

00:50:38 ◼   ► anything that they need. So that they've tried but developers know the user base isn't there,

00:50:45 ◼   ► so what's the point? I mean, I think that's the thinking behind it.

00:50:50 ◼   ► I don't know, I don't know. See, I think making apps is like a kitchen. You can buy all these

00:50:58 ◼   ► different kitchen robots and they do all sorts of things for you. They're like the closed

00:51:06 ◼   ► platform version of cooking. They do all sorts of different things. You can make pizza, they

00:51:14 ◼   ► let you grind coffee. These robots, these machines, you basically put the stuff in and

00:51:22 ◼   ► they have all sorts of different functions.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Have you ever heard the term "lowest common denominator"?

00:51:29 ◼   ► Yes, exactly.

00:51:30 ◼   ► I think that's what they're going for. I don't know if...

00:51:34 ◼   ► In the kitchen, when you buy the specific tool, whether it's a knife or a mixer, you

00:51:39 ◼   ► always end up with the best results.

00:51:42 ◼   ► And in a way, that's how I see making software.

00:51:45 ◼   ► I think that with cross-platform, you can make the most clever, easy, fast solution,

00:51:55 ◼   ► but history has proven that custom solutions are always, you know, they give you the most

00:51:59 ◼   ► control and the most quality.

00:52:02 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:52:03 ◼   ► - I agree with you completely, but I see

00:52:06 ◼   ► from Microsoft's perspective, it's like,

00:52:08 ◼   ► what more can we do?

00:52:10 ◼   ► We've tried everything.

00:52:12 ◼   ► - No, no, no, it makes sense, makes sense, yeah.

00:52:14 ◼   ► - So Cortana, Cortana, which is Microsoft's

00:52:18 ◼   ► digital assistant on Windows Phone,

00:52:20 ◼   ► is going to be on all devices on Windows 10.

00:52:23 ◼   ► So as well as the usual personal assistant stuff

00:52:25 ◼   ► that we're used to on the desktop,

00:52:28 ◼   ► like tell me about the weather today

00:52:30 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff,

00:52:32 ◼   ► like what's my calendar like, you know, give you all of that and give you a visual view

00:52:36 ◼   ► of it all in a kind of like a notification center type view.

00:52:41 ◼   ► Cortana on desktop and on Windows 10 PCs can also find files for you and stuff like that.

00:52:50 ◼   ► So you can say like Cortana please get me that presentation that I want to show Federico

00:52:56 ◼   ► or something, you know, and it will find it for you.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Being a cotana here, I am, and when we talk about it a bit more with the new internet,

00:53:06 ◼   ► new web browser Project Spartan, gold star to whoever gets our show notes in Project

00:53:11 ◼   ► Spartan, you will receive a gold star for the first person to achieve that.

00:53:18 ◼   ► I am interested that there is no Siri on the Mac.

00:53:21 ◼   ► It feels like that spotlight is kind of Siri.

00:53:25 ◼   ► They maybe should have just called it Siri and gone with the marketing.

00:53:29 ◼   ► When you use a Mac you're using a keyboard.

00:53:32 ◼   ► That's my question.

00:53:33 ◼   ► Would you ask Cortana to find a file instead of typing?

00:53:38 ◼   ► You can type into Cortana.

00:53:41 ◼   ► That's one of its more defining features.

00:53:45 ◼   ► And you can do this on the phones as well.

00:53:47 ◼   ► You don't have to speak to it.

00:53:48 ◼   ► You can ask it questions in natural language.

00:53:51 ◼   ► So you can type.

00:53:52 ◼   ► So it's also search.

00:53:53 ◼   ► Yeah, but yes, exactly.

00:53:54 ◼   ► But you can type into it like "what are my appointments today?"

00:53:57 ◼   ► like the Fantastico style, like

00:54:00 ◼   ► Lunch with Bob at 12 in Casa del Rios.

00:54:04 ◼   ► It does all of that, which is quite interesting.

00:54:08 ◼   ► This is one of the things that kind of glossed

00:54:11 ◼   ► over a little bit was the message platform.

00:54:15 ◼   ► It wasn't very clear when they were explaining it, but I think

00:54:18 ◼   ► I kind of got my head around it.

00:54:21 ◼   ► Obviously, Windows Phone do SMS, but they're going to be using

00:54:24 ◼   ► the skype backend to power an iMessage-like platform.

00:54:30 ◼   ► Skype. Yeah, so they're going to use the skype chat service to do that, which is very interesting

00:54:36 ◼   ► because that's cross-platform, so I could, you know, I could talk to somebody on a Windows

00:54:40 ◼   ► phone from my Mac by using Skype. But you can already do that.

00:54:46 ◼   ► Yeah, but it would be built into the messages app. Oh, okay. That's the idea. Sorry, I maybe

00:54:51 ◼   ► maybe didn't make that completely clear.

00:54:52 ◼   ► So what it will do now in the same way that iMessage does,

00:54:55 ◼   ► if it detects that it can use Skype, it will do that.

00:54:58 ◼   ► Otherwise it will send an SMS to someone.

00:55:00 ◼   ► - I think this is, again, clever.

00:55:05 ◼   ► I just fear that basically every major platform holder

00:55:09 ◼   ► is going for its own solution

00:55:11 ◼   ► of this cross-platform messaging.

00:55:14 ◼   ► So Apple has iMessage and Google has-

00:55:16 ◼   ► - Well, that's not cross-platform.

00:55:19 ◼   ► Well, that's cross-device for Apple.

00:55:23 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:55:25 ◼   ► Apple is never going to add Skype into the Messages app.

00:55:29 ◼   ► No, never.

00:55:29 ◼   ► Well, they may do, but not in the near future.

00:55:32 ◼   ► I mean, you never know with these things.

00:55:34 ◼   ► You never know, Rob.

00:55:36 ◼   ► It feels unlikely.

00:55:39 ◼   ► I just think that at the end of the day,

00:55:42 ◼   ► SMS was a pretty awesome cross-platform service.

00:55:46 ◼   ► It's just too bad that it's a paid one.

00:55:49 ◼   ► Because it works for everybody, but it only supports text.

00:55:53 ◼   ► Like ideally, how awesome would it be

00:55:57 ◼   ► if iMessage or whatever, another service,

00:55:59 ◼   ► was really cross-platform

00:56:01 ◼   ► and into the main messages app for everybody?

00:56:04 ◼   ► - Oh yeah. - That would be fantastic.

00:56:06 ◼   ► - But it's never gonna exist

00:56:07 ◼   ► 'cause it's meant to be a competitive advantage, isn't it?

00:56:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that kinda sucks, you know,

00:56:12 ◼   ► because it, like, I get it.

00:56:15 ◼   ► like they want people to use their own ecosystem and whatever.

00:56:19 ◼   ► I just like, I kind of miss the idea of SMS as a global standard.

00:56:26 ◼   ► Yeah, I do too. I do too. Definitely.

00:56:30 ◼   ► There's a new browser. It hasn't got a name yet.

00:56:34 ◼   ► It has a code name Project Spartan.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I really enjoyed this project.

00:56:38 ◼   ► Sorry, they're just using names from Halo at this point.

00:56:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I think they went with Cortana, right?

00:56:46 ◼   ► Because that's quite a smart name,

00:56:48 ◼   ► so now they're expanding it.

00:56:49 ◼   ► - Okay, okay.

00:56:50 ◼   ► - Because I think Cortana was a clever name

00:56:53 ◼   ► for their assistant.

00:56:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, yeah.

00:56:56 ◼   ► - So then I guess at that point,

00:56:57 ◼   ► then you may as well just go with that,

00:56:59 ◼   ► wait for everything.

00:57:00 ◼   ► So I've really enjoyed this part of the presentation

00:57:03 ◼   ► because, so you should try and track this part down.

00:57:07 ◼   ► The Verge will definitely have it, I'll put it in there.

00:57:11 ◼   ► A few weeks ago, Tom Warren on the Verge,

00:57:13 ◼   ► he had all this information.

00:57:15 ◼   ► He had a scoop about Project Spartan

00:57:16 ◼   ► and some of the features that were gonna come from it.

00:57:19 ◼   ► And Joe Belfiore brought it up on the web browser

00:57:23 ◼   ► and was like, oh, we're all talking about this

00:57:25 ◼   ► a couple of weeks ago.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - Nice.

00:57:28 ◼   ► - And then showed off some of the features

00:57:32 ◼   ► of the new web browser on that webpage.

00:57:37 ◼   ► So I'll talk about what I mean by that.

00:57:40 ◼   ► So this is one thing that I found really interesting

00:57:44 ◼   ► that were cagey about this,

00:57:45 ◼   ► I think more than they should have been.

00:57:46 ◼   ► I believe Joe Belfiore's words

00:57:49 ◼   ► where it has a new rendering engine,

00:57:52 ◼   ► which is compatible with the web today.

00:57:55 ◼   ► - What does that mean? - Why didn't he say

00:57:57 ◼   ► it conforms to current web standards?

00:57:59 ◼   ► 'Cause that should have been what he said,

00:58:01 ◼   ► but it wasn't what he said.

00:58:03 ◼   ► I'm sure it does, I'm sure it does,

00:58:05 ◼   ► 'cause it would be crazy for it not to,

00:58:07 ◼   ► but I start to think about some of the stuff

00:58:09 ◼   ► that Google is doing, you know, like forking off from WebKit and being more weird.

00:58:13 ◼   ► And I wonder if there's maybe a little bit of that in there.

00:58:16 ◼   ► Did you see, just as a quick aside, that there's a WhatsApp web application?

00:58:24 ◼   ► Yeah, I saw that.

00:58:24 ◼   ► And it only works for Google Chrome.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a Chrome app.

00:58:27 ◼   ► So weird.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, WhatsApp and their availability on other platforms should be

00:58:38 ◼   ► topic someday because the Americans don't get WhatsApp I think.

00:58:44 ◼   ► No they don't.

00:58:45 ◼   ► So it'll be mostly me and you talking about WhatsApp.

00:58:50 ◼   ► It should have been today Myke I realize.

00:58:53 ◼   ► But instead we have to subject Steven to listening to this topic.

00:58:59 ◼   ► Yeah we'll make him listen.

00:59:02 ◼   ► I did think it was interesting.

00:59:05 ◼   ► But yeah, it's coming to the web, they've launched a web client.

00:59:10 ◼   ► But I don't understand, it's for Android, they've launched it for Android as well, but

00:59:13 ◼   ► they have an Android app.

00:59:14 ◼   ► I don't really fully understand the thinking there, why you need a web app when you have

00:59:18 ◼   ► a native app.

00:59:20 ◼   ► We will do research on what's happening.

00:59:22 ◼   ► I need to look into this a little bit more, I didn't have any time to look at that.

00:59:26 ◼   ► So along with-

00:59:28 ◼   ► Anyway, besides the web today-

00:59:30 ◼   ► So one of the key things that they've done, which I think at first I thought was dumb

00:59:34 ◼   ► and then the more they showed about it I actually thought was quite interesting.

00:59:37 ◼   ► They have a note-taking mode. So this is what they're doing.

00:59:40 ◼   ► Like so he grabs his stylus and he like does some rings around the headline

00:59:46 ◼   ► and he's writing notes on it and stuff like that.

00:59:49 ◼   ► You can also, so you can draw on it, you can add comments.

00:59:52 ◼   ► So you can click on a certain section and add your own comments to it.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And what it does is, now I thought that this was very impressive.

00:59:59 ◼   ► So when you start to add these notes,

01:00:01 ◼   ► it says it locks the page up.

01:00:02 ◼   ► So it's like, oh, it just turns it into an image.

01:00:05 ◼   ► He says, if the content changes, this won't change,

01:00:08 ◼   ► so it keeps your notes in preservation.

01:00:11 ◼   ► But then he said, but the links will still work.

01:00:13 ◼   ► And I was like, OK, that's interesting.

01:00:16 ◼   ► Because I thought he was going to say, oh, it just

01:00:17 ◼   ► turns it into an image, or a PDF or something.

01:00:19 ◼   ► But all the links still work in there.

01:00:21 ◼   ► So maybe there's some PDF-y stuff that's happening there.

01:00:24 ◼   ► So you can add comments as well by typing in stuff.

01:00:27 ◼   ► You can then share these comments with people.

01:00:29 ◼   ► So my understanding from listening is you can collaborate

01:00:32 ◼   ► on this together, which I thought was quite cool.

01:00:34 ◼   ► So you can imagine like a web design company doing this,

01:00:36 ◼   ► which I thought was quite cool.

01:00:38 ◼   ► And then also, you can save these, you can then clip areas,

01:00:44 ◼   ► you can clip specific areas as well,

01:00:48 ◼   ► and you can save all this to OneNote,

01:00:49 ◼   ► or you can clip a certain area

01:00:51 ◼   ► and share it to the web like Droppler.

01:00:53 ◼   ► So I thought all of that in the browser,

01:00:57 ◼   ► that's pretty powerful stuff.

01:00:59 ◼   ► And I remember us all wanting Apple to put this in Safari

01:01:02 ◼   ► when they showed it off in mail, right?

01:01:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:04 ◼   ► - So I looked at it, I was like, do you know what?

01:01:06 ◼   ► That's something that should be in more browsers.

01:01:10 ◼   ► Reading list, like really?

01:01:11 ◼   ► They showed this on stage, come on.

01:01:13 ◼   ► And then Cortana built in.

01:01:15 ◼   ► Now this actually I thought was quite interesting.

01:01:18 ◼   ► So it has some basic information like Spotlight.

01:01:21 ◼   ► So it would give you contextual information

01:01:23 ◼   ► when typing in the address bar.

01:01:26 ◼   ► kind of like what Spotlight does, right?

01:01:29 ◼   ► So it gives you that information.

01:01:30 ◼   ► You can type in like weather

01:01:32 ◼   ► and it starts to show you the weather.

01:01:33 ◼   ► And then, but also like Google Now,

01:01:37 ◼   ► if you're tracking a flight in Cortana

01:01:40 ◼   ► and you start typing anything about flights,

01:01:42 ◼   ► it will show you the flight information

01:01:43 ◼   ► in like the dropdown of the address bar.

01:01:45 ◼   ► But then this is something that I thought was really cool.

01:01:47 ◼   ► So Belfiori goes to a webpage for a restaurant

01:01:51 ◼   ► and he right clicks on it and it brings up a menu,

01:01:54 ◼   ► he right clicks on a menu item on the restaurant

01:01:56 ◼   ► and it brings up a list of ingredients

01:01:58 ◼   ► that are in the menu item.

01:01:59 ◼   ► I thought it was pretty cool.

01:02:02 ◼   ► - And this is Cortana.

01:02:04 ◼   ► - This is Cortana, yeah.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Because their idea with Cortana Federico is that it's,

01:02:08 ◼   ► I think they kind of, at least in the way that they talk,

01:02:12 ◼   ► they've taken it a step further than everybody else.

01:02:14 ◼   ► The idea of Cortana is this learning machine

01:02:17 ◼   ► and they have it learning the internet

01:02:19 ◼   ► via the people that are using it.

01:02:20 ◼   ► So it learns different things about websites

01:02:22 ◼   ► and it learns about you.

01:02:23 ◼   ► and it seems to be like this learning thing,

01:02:26 ◼   ► rather than just like with Apple,

01:02:29 ◼   ► it's kind of like Siri kind of gets smarter

01:02:32 ◼   ► as it goes along, maybe.

01:02:33 ◼   ► Google Now seems to learn more about you,

01:02:37 ◼   ► but Cortana, at least the way it's pitched,

01:02:39 ◼   ► seems to learn more about you and the web as a whole.

01:02:42 ◼   ► I find it quite interesting,

01:02:43 ◼   ► like of the three that I've seen demos of,

01:02:45 ◼   ► and I've used all three of them as well,

01:02:47 ◼   ► I actually find a lot of Cortana's features

01:02:49 ◼   ► to be the most impressive.

01:02:51 ◼   ► - That's pretty cool, yeah.

01:02:53 ◼   ► so I have an eye on Cortana because I think that it's becoming a more than just a gimmick feature

01:03:00 ◼   ► Will it work? Do you know if it'll work internationally? Like can I select

01:03:06 ◼   ► an Italian recipe? Does it tell me Italian ingredients?

01:03:09 ◼   ► One of the things they said is that with Windows 10 while they're in the beta program they are

01:03:12 ◼   ► working like really hard to get it working better internationally

01:03:17 ◼   ► Oh nice okay

01:03:18 ◼   ► Because I think up until now it's been in English only in beta

01:03:22 ◼   ► So I think if they're gonna put it into Windows,

01:03:27 ◼   ► like proper Windows, like full Windows,

01:03:29 ◼   ► it has to work internationally,

01:03:30 ◼   ► I think they recognize that.

01:03:32 ◼   ► So there's still, we haven't even got

01:03:34 ◼   ► to the bigger stuff yet.

01:03:35 ◼   ► This is actually a pretty impressive keynote.

01:03:39 ◼   ► Thinking, like now I'm looking over

01:03:41 ◼   ► what we've spoken about and what's coming later.

01:03:44 ◼   ► This is a big day for Microsoft.

01:03:45 ◼   ► Maybe we'll talk about how we feel about that at the end.

01:03:48 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is also brought to you by Smile

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01:05:40 ◼   ► to

01:05:56 ◼   ► is getting an Xbox app.

01:05:58 ◼   ► And what can you do with it?

01:06:00 ◼   ► So, let's start off with the smaller parts.

01:06:03 ◼   ► There is going to be cross-platform chat,

01:06:06 ◼   ► both text and video,

01:06:08 ◼   ► that you'll be able to have with your friends

01:06:11 ◼   ► via the new Xbox app on Windows 10.

01:06:14 ◼   ► So maybe, you know, you can be at work and say,

01:06:16 ◼   ► "Guys, I'll be home at 10 and we can do that raid."

01:06:19 ◼   ► You know, you can do that if you want to.

01:06:21 ◼   ► You know, maybe that's something, Federico,

01:06:23 ◼   ► that the kids these days will get up to.

01:06:27 ◼   ► There's also the game DVR functionality.

01:06:31 ◼   ► They're bringing that to PC.

01:06:33 ◼   ► What that is on the Xbox One,

01:06:35 ◼   ► it records your last 30 seconds at all times,

01:06:40 ◼   ► so you can share that with people.

01:06:42 ◼   ► Say you do something crazy in a video game,

01:06:44 ◼   ► you can bring up the share options,

01:06:46 ◼   ► and you can share with your friends or share on social media

01:06:49 ◼   ► the last 30 seconds of play,

01:06:51 ◼   ► to start recording at any point and it will just record and you can share that with people.

01:06:55 ◼   ► So they call it game DVR. It's actually becoming quite an interesting thing in the gaming community

01:06:59 ◼   ► to see people sharing videos and photos of what's happening in their games.

01:07:04 ◼   ► It's actually taken off more than I think many people expected it would.

01:07:06 ◼   ► So can I ask you, so you can do this for PC games?

01:07:13 ◼   ► Yes.

01:07:15 ◼   ► Or for Xbox games?

01:07:17 ◼   ► Let me speak about the rest and then you'll know where I'm going with that.

01:07:21 ◼   ► So this is the next part.

01:07:22 ◼   ► I am confused.

01:07:24 ◼   ► The next two parts, okay.

01:07:25 ◼   ► So you can do the game DVR stuff for your PC games for sure, but you can also do it

01:07:29 ◼   ► for these next two things as well.

01:07:32 ◼   ► With Windows 10 comes fully cross-platform games between the Xbox One and the PC.

01:07:36 ◼   ► And they showed off a demo of Fable Legends.

01:07:38 ◼   ► So it has somebody, one of the developers, I think it's Lionheart Studios.

01:07:44 ◼   ► comes out on stage and she's playing Fable Legends on an Xbox One and then

01:07:48 ◼   ► what's the guy's name Federico help me I've forgotten who was demoing was it

01:07:52 ◼   ► Phil Spence? Phil Spencer. Phil Spencer. He's the Microsoft guy. Phil Spencer is then on a

01:07:59 ◼   ► Windows PC and he joins the game so Xbox One and PC games will have

01:08:06 ◼   ► cross-platform multiplayer and Fable Legends is one of the first games

01:08:10 ◼   ► announced to have this support. Okay that makes sense as a

01:08:14 ◼   ► cross-platform feature. Yeah that absolutely makes sense. But this is where

01:08:19 ◼   ► things get crazy. Okay. Streaming from an Xbox One to any

01:08:23 ◼   ► Windows PC or tablet. Of course it's like after PlayStation and Wii U gamepad

01:08:30 ◼   ► streaming locally. Yeah. This is my understanding is correct.

01:08:35 ◼   ► It's really smart, I think, it makes sense and again, I watched the video on the Xbox

01:08:42 ◼   ► and Microsoft YouTube channels and Joe Belfiore as the example, he says my son wants to play

01:08:50 ◼   ► sensor overdrive and me and my wife, we want to watch some television and so our son can

01:08:57 ◼   ► just stream the game from the Xbox to another screen which is connected to the PC so he

01:09:04 ◼   ► keep playing and there's like harmony in our household. It makes sense and it kind of reinforces

01:09:11 ◼   ► Nintendo's original idea for the Wii U and the Gamepad, which Nintendo couldn't quite

01:09:17 ◼   ► sell appropriately to the press and to people especially. And now Sony is doing this with

01:09:24 ◼   ► remote play for the Playstation and the PS Vita, Microsoft is doing it and it'll be I

01:09:29 ◼   ► I guess even more effective because of the PCs everywhere.

01:09:35 ◼   ► It's really clever.

01:09:37 ◼   ► I wonder if Microsoft can do it also as an app on Macs and other devices.

01:09:44 ◼   ► If not, if they depend on new hardware, Windows 10 software features, I don't know.

01:09:53 ◼   ► I read on Polygon that it'll only be limited to local Wi-Fi and only some games that decide

01:10:01 ◼   ► to support the feature, so it's not just like a system feature on the Xbox One.

01:10:07 ◼   ► It'll be enabled on a game-by-game basis.

01:10:10 ◼   ► So hopefully every developer...

01:10:11 ◼   ► And I think they have to be downloaded games as well.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Oh yeah?

01:10:17 ◼   ► Not on disk?

01:10:21 ◼   ► understanding just it seems like it's it's from it's it's it's downloaded

01:10:28 ◼   ► games only okay I think it's I think it's an interesting move I feel like

01:10:32 ◼   ► this is step one towards a bigger like you know like a bigger play like

01:10:40 ◼   ► eventually it could be over the internet as well and then also you know it could

01:10:44 ◼   ► be all games right you I think this feels to me like something you start off

01:10:48 ◼   ► somewhere but the idea of being able to connect an Xbox One controller to your

01:10:54 ◼   ► tablet and play games, you know, we know how great that is from the window, from

01:11:00 ◼   ► the Wii U gamepad and having like flexibility of device to do that with

01:11:06 ◼   ► I think is really really compelling I think this is a very very

01:11:09 ◼   ► interesting feature. I'm looking forward to the, there's this great column at

01:11:15 ◼   ► Eurogamer called Game Fundry. They basically compared the technical specifications of games

01:11:25 ◼   ► across platforms and they did an amazing test for the remote play on the PS4 and the PS

01:11:33 ◼   ► Vita. They compared streaming and framerates and it is the one section on Eurogamer that

01:11:40 ◼   ► I trust when it comes to technical analysis of video games.

01:11:45 ◼   ► Looking forward to seeing this kind of Xbox One streaming to PC.

01:11:51 ◼   ► When is it coming out?

01:11:52 ◼   ► Do they have like a beta coming for this stuff?

01:11:56 ◼   ► For everything.

01:11:57 ◼   ► For streaming specifically for the Xbox One and PC.

01:12:01 ◼   ► My understanding is a lot of these things are being kind of rolled out over time.

01:12:09 ◼   ► So we'll have to wait and see on that one.

01:12:13 ◼   ► My understanding from how this was being presented is these new features are coming, they'll

01:12:20 ◼   ► be going to what they call their insiders, but they're going to be in stages.

01:12:26 ◼   ► I don't know if they mean stages to people or if it's being staged out.

01:12:32 ◼   ► I'm not 100% sure about it basically, but there is some idea of it being kind of rolled

01:12:39 ◼   ► out.

01:12:40 ◼   ► Are you, Myke, are you a Windows Insider?

01:12:43 ◼   ► I'm not at the moment.

01:12:45 ◼   ► You should be a Windows Insider.

01:12:46 ◼   ► I think I should be.

01:12:47 ◼   ► I seem like I'm coming around to the idea of Microsoft, so maybe I should be a Windows

01:12:51 ◼   ► Insider.

01:12:52 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:12:53 ◼   ► You should also be a Business Insider.

01:12:55 ◼   ► I am a Business Insider.

01:12:57 ◼   ► That's kind of gross.

01:13:00 ◼   ► This is where the presentation took what I thought was going to be a turn which they

01:13:07 ◼   ► wouldn't be able to come back from. An 84 inch 4K display called the Surface Hub.

01:13:12 ◼   ► This doesn't make any sense. Why would you use this?

01:13:16 ◼   ► I'm gonna enterprise you again.

01:13:18 ◼   ► Oh no, not again.

01:13:19 ◼   ► I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

01:13:20 ◼   ► I feel like when I don't know something, you always have the enterprise excuse. This is

01:13:26 ◼   ► really convenient of you.

01:13:27 ◼   ► It is, isn't it? Why do Apple reject these apps? Federico, let me tell you about the

01:13:32 ◼   ► enterprise.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Yeah, that's basically what you're doing every week now.

01:13:37 ◼   ► - Let me explain what the Surface Hub is to you.

01:13:39 ◼   ► - Tell me, tell me.

01:13:40 ◼   ► - It's effectively a huge monitor, 84 inches,

01:13:44 ◼   ► which has got Windows, it's got a computer inside of it

01:13:47 ◼   ► and it runs Windows 10.

01:13:49 ◼   ► It's meant for brainstorming and meetings.

01:13:53 ◼   ► I wanted to throw up everywhere

01:13:55 ◼   ► during this part of the presentation.

01:13:57 ◼   ► So the presenters show a bunch of things,

01:13:59 ◼   ► like it has a whiteboard function,

01:14:02 ◼   ► it has like multi-touch, so they show people

01:14:03 ◼   ► like manipulating 3D models,

01:14:06 ◼   ► so they're moving them around in space

01:14:08 ◼   ► and then they're like snapping different apps

01:14:11 ◼   ► so they have the 3D model

01:14:12 ◼   ► and then they have like the whiteboard OneNote app

01:14:16 ◼   ► so she can take a picture and move it over to the other side

01:14:19 ◼   ► and draw on it and stuff.

01:14:20 ◼   ► And it uses Skype for business to call people in

01:14:24 ◼   ► because apparently it takes, I think it's 12 minutes

01:14:26 ◼   ► to set up every meeting, which like on average--

01:14:28 ◼   ► - Do these people shower after they take these meetings?

01:14:31 ◼   ► - I hope they do.

01:14:32 ◼   ► So Skype for Business, so it'd be calling people in.

01:14:35 ◼   ► That is a much better solution for video conferencing

01:14:38 ◼   ► than basically any video conference solution

01:14:39 ◼   ► I've ever tried.

01:14:40 ◼   ► So it's intended to save time in meetings.

01:14:43 ◼   ► So effectively, Federica, what this is meant to do

01:14:45 ◼   ► is this is meant to replace whiteboards,

01:14:49 ◼   ► the computers that people bring to meetings,

01:14:53 ◼   ► and also video conference software.

01:14:55 ◼   ► In theory-- - What's the price?

01:14:58 ◼   ► What's the price?

01:14:59 ◼   ► - They didn't say.

01:15:00 ◼   ► I don't think it could price anything.

01:15:01 ◼   ► going to be ridiculously expensive. In theory this is an interesting device in

01:15:07 ◼   ► the workplace but I think that this is a stupid thing that Microsoft is

01:15:13 ◼   ► doing in making this device themselves. This should be just a little Apple TV

01:15:18 ◼   ► lightbox that if it's got a touchscreen it can use this, otherwise it

01:15:23 ◼   ► doesn't. But anyway, the one thing that I found was really interesting about this

01:15:27 ◼   ► is when when you finish a meeting so you go like you go to like the logout panel

01:15:32 ◼   ► and you click logout all of the contents that have been used in the meetings all

01:15:38 ◼   ► of the notes that have been taken all the whiteboards or the screenshots they

01:15:41 ◼   ► get automatically shared via OneNote with all the participants and it cleans

01:15:45 ◼   ► the information from the machine ready for the next meeting I thought that was

01:15:49 ◼   ► pretty cool yeah that's cool it's so businessy like very much so businessy

01:15:55 ◼   ► Yes.

01:15:57 ◼   ► But it's a thing.

01:15:58 ◼   ► Did you see the image that I pulled from the video?

01:16:01 ◼   ► There's going to be two images that are in our show notes.

01:16:04 ◼   ► Some apps will show them for you in preview.

01:16:06 ◼   ► If they don't, then what you want to do is go to our show notes page at relay.fm/connector/23.

01:16:13 ◼   ► The first one will be of a total dude with his Surface Hub.

01:16:20 ◼   ► The guy with the Surface Hub, the player, he looks a bit like Captain Holt from Brooklyn

01:16:27 ◼   ► Nine-Nine.

01:16:28 ◼   ► He does, yeah.

01:16:31 ◼   ► He's just like, he's totally bossing that meeting.

01:16:33 ◼   ► I love that he's sitting on the desk.

01:16:34 ◼   ► I love that he's doing the finger guns.

01:16:36 ◼   ► Well, it's like everyone, see how everyone's standing up and like sitting on the edge of

01:16:40 ◼   ► the tables.

01:16:41 ◼   ► Because he's the boss.

01:16:42 ◼   ► Well, no, that's meant to show collaboration.

01:16:44 ◼   ► Oh, yeah, totally.

01:16:45 ◼   ► You know, everyone's so engaged in this meeting that they are collaborating so hard they can't

01:16:50 ◼   ► even sit in their chairs anymore.

01:16:54 ◼   ► The tension is so palpable and they're looking at these charts and graphs of showing God

01:17:01 ◼   ► knows what profit margin analysis says on the screen.

01:17:08 ◼   ► So this is, you know, they're doing profit margin analysis.

01:17:12 ◼   ► They're analyzing their profit margins.

01:17:16 ◼   ► That's a really, really awesome meeting.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Did you get my meeting invite for the Relay FM profit margin analysis, by the way?

01:17:24 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'm looking forward to the system cleaning up our data when we're done.

01:17:31 ◼   ► Yeah, because that's the way that the system works, because we've got our hands on a surface

01:17:36 ◼   ► hub here.

01:17:37 ◼   ► I'm really excited about that.

01:17:38 ◼   ► We literally have our hands, all our hands, on the surface hub.

01:17:45 ◼   ► everyone can put their hands on the surface hub.

01:17:48 ◼   ► We can even invite people like Matt Alexander and Frank Towers to put their hands on the

01:17:53 ◼   ► surface hub.

01:17:54 ◼   ► Well, we can bring them in over Skype for business if we need to.

01:17:58 ◼   ► Now the next image that you will have seen by now is of the biggest surprise and probably

01:18:04 ◼   ► the thing that's got the most news coming out of today, which is total left field curveball

01:18:11 ◼   ► nobody could have ever predicted that this was gonna happen, we have something

01:18:16 ◼   ► called Windows Holographic. Now when the guy, I can't remember his name, but he

01:18:23 ◼   ► worked on Kinect. I think his name is Alex? Alex is like Zikman. Oh yeah, I just, you

01:18:36 ◼   ► know I read the article on Wired and Vicman probably yeah we'll go with that

01:18:42 ◼   ► well we'll go with that now so he comes out and he's kind of crazy looking and

01:18:49 ◼   ► he's talking kind of crazy basically Kipman and he's he's basically

01:18:55 ◼   ► they show this this demo video which is very Tony Stark right it's like oh so we

01:19:01 ◼   ► need to do the work here and we just pinch it and we rotate it around in 3d

01:19:04 ◼   ► space and there's a hologram and oh you want to increase the size of the fuel

01:19:08 ◼   ► tank on this motor physical motorbike in the real world? Pinch and drag and it will

01:19:13 ◼   ► it's all very like come on guys like what are you doing? They have a device

01:19:18 ◼   ► that they're calling the HoloLens. Now this is like a visor kind of thing is

01:19:22 ◼   ► it's untethered holographic computer is what they're calling it. It has

01:19:26 ◼   ► see-through HD lenses as a microphone in it for voice commands and they've

01:19:30 ◼   ► developed something called the HPU which is the holographic processing unit.

01:19:34 ◼   ► Then they show a demo on stage and this is where it kind of changed

01:19:38 ◼   ► So before this point everything is these pre-rendered videos and it's like what are you doing?

01:19:43 ◼   ► Like they're showing

01:19:45 ◼   ► Minecraft in the real like in your living room

01:19:47 ◼   ► everything's made out of Minecraft and you throw a little TNT thing at the wall and it explodes and you look out onto the world of

01:19:52 ◼   ► Minecraft and it's like come on guys like just to stop this

01:19:55 ◼   ► But then they show this demo on stage and what they did was they had the special camera that came out

01:19:59 ◼   ► Which has also been fitted with the technology so that it could do a proper demo

01:20:02 ◼   ► which is great because this is something Google Glass could never do. They never found a way to demo it, like so you could see what you'd see.

01:20:10 ◼   ► And it was impressive looking. So the video that they show on stage,

01:20:16 ◼   ► they have like a one of the Microsoft executives turned into a little hologram and the lady who's demoing is walking around him

01:20:23 ◼   ► and

01:20:25 ◼   ► you can kind of, it's like a hologram, and then they do this thing called,

01:20:28 ◼   ► I think it's called like HoloKit or something like that, HoloLab or it's

01:20:33 ◼   ► like this this like toy box simulator where you build little models of things

01:20:37 ◼   ► which you can then 3d print stuff out of which apparently Microsoft have been doing

01:20:41 ◼   ► a lot of and she's like manipulating a real space and she's like grabbing

01:20:45 ◼   ► things out of the toolbox and like it was just really impressive to look and

01:20:50 ◼   ► you should try and see some videos of it if you can. Lots of voice activated

01:20:54 ◼   ► functions like I like it when in the demo she's like screaming at it to make

01:20:58 ◼   ► sure it gets them properly like she's very forceful with her words but the

01:21:01 ◼   ► quality looked really good it looks kind of awkward to kind of reach out and

01:21:06 ◼   ► point at things and touch things but you know it was fine and apparently they're

01:21:11 ◼   ► showing off like why I'd had a bit up big article about it there are some

01:21:20 ◼   ► actual one of the Minecraft devs one of the Mojang devs they said that they're

01:21:27 ◼   ► working on projects I understand now why they bought why they bought why they

01:21:31 ◼   ► bought it this is why they bought it for this they need a game to show and this

01:21:35 ◼   ► is the perfect game to show in this type of technology like I now genuinely

01:21:39 ◼   ► believe this is why Microsoft bought Mojang I am I am so so excited about

01:21:45 ◼   ► this kind of stuff you know this kind of crazy because it didn't look like it

01:21:49 ◼   ► could be real when they're showing the video but then when they show the demo

01:21:52 ◼   ► it's like obviously this is early on but even early on this demo if this is

01:21:57 ◼   ► actually happening you've created something really special. Yeah but I have

01:22:03 ◼   ► some questions. Of course I think everybody does. So like I'm not a

01:22:09 ◼   ► scientist I'm not a programmer but I'm pretty sure that holograms usually you

01:22:15 ◼   ► You don't need to wear special equipment to see them because they just appear in space.

01:22:22 ◼   ► I also tweeted an article about this company called Zebra Imaging and they create these

01:22:30 ◼   ► super expensive computers to show you holograms in the real world and you don't need to wear

01:22:37 ◼   ► special goggles.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Right, so the thing is, in theory these look like holograms, but technically this is augmented reality.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Exactly, so it's projected on your face.

01:22:50 ◼   ► So my question is, do they look like holograms?

01:22:54 ◼   ► Like, do they look like objects that you see on real surfaces?

01:22:58 ◼   ► Yes.

01:22:59 ◼   ► Or do they look like you have stuff in front of your eyes?

01:23:03 ◼   ► The demo that they showed where they did it on screen and they had the special camera,

01:23:09 ◼   ► they looked like physical 3D objects.

01:23:11 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:13 ◼   ► It was very impressive looking.

01:23:15 ◼   ► So when I look at my desk, I see my desk in 3D and I also see stuff on my desk that isn't...

01:23:23 ◼   ► that it's not actually there.

01:23:24 ◼   ► Have you ever played around with the Augmented Reality cards on the 3DS?

01:23:28 ◼   ► Yeah, that's exactly what I was about to say.

01:23:30 ◼   ► Looks like that.

01:23:31 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:32 ◼   ► But better, I hope.

01:23:34 ◼   ► Yeah, of course.

01:23:35 ◼   ► It looks better than it does in the videos.

01:23:37 ◼   ► Okay.

01:23:38 ◼   ► I mean, there's a lot of information that we don't have right now, and from what I've

01:23:44 ◼   ► seen at the time that we're recording, there hasn't been an awful lot of hands-on and information

01:23:49 ◼   ► written about it other than the people that got early access.

01:23:52 ◼   ► So I'm interested to see more about this in the coming weeks.

01:23:57 ◼   ► But what Microsoft have done today, they've done a few things.

01:24:01 ◼   ► I think that they have shown off their current thinking for Windows 10 and they're showing

01:24:05 ◼   ► that they can be progressive in some of the features that they've got, their new web browser,

01:24:10 ◼   ► some of the features that that has.

01:24:12 ◼   ► The idea that they're thinking more cleverly about the way that they pitch Windows as well

01:24:18 ◼   ► as offering it for free I think is very impressive.

01:24:21 ◼   ► They did show off new versions of Office today as well, but I'm not so excited about that.

01:24:29 ◼   ► Cortana looks very impressive. They're finally taking more advantage of Xbox.

01:24:33 ◼   ► That's which they should have been doing for years in Windows.

01:24:37 ◼   ► And then they kind of blew everybody away with the Windows holographic.

01:24:43 ◼   ► Everyone was mocking it and thought it was ridiculous until they started showing those on-stage demos.

01:24:49 ◼   ► And I think it kind of changed a lot of people's opinions.

01:24:51 ◼   ► What happens to the HoloLens if you have bad eyesight?

01:24:56 ◼   ► Well, it looks like it's big enough like VR that you could wear it over your glasses.

01:25:03 ◼   ► So the visor doesn't look like it sits directly on your face.

01:25:08 ◼   ► They were talking about VR and they were like, the thing about VR is it creates these experiences,

01:25:13 ◼   ► but they create them, they're contained in the goggles.

01:25:17 ◼   ► And what Microsoft is trying to do is to create these experiences but in your actual world.

01:25:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I just wonder.

01:25:25 ◼   ► I mean, it's so cool.

01:25:26 ◼   ► Like, the geek part of me is amazed by this kind of, you know, technology.

01:25:33 ◼   ► There's a whole holographic computer in these goggles, basically.

01:25:38 ◼   ► And it's fantastic.

01:25:39 ◼   ► It's fascinating.

01:25:40 ◼   ► It's genuinely fascinating.

01:25:41 ◼   ► I just wonder if, like, would my mom use this?

01:25:44 ◼   ► Of course not.

01:25:45 ◼   ► Of course not.

01:25:46 ◼   ► But this is like future.

01:25:49 ◼   ► This is future stuff.

01:25:50 ◼   ► Like, even though it's kind of working now, they've been working on it for years, they

01:25:54 ◼   ► are like years away from this being a viable platform in any means.

01:25:59 ◼   ► There's no pricing information, no release information, and they're kind of saying like

01:26:03 ◼   ► this is something we're starting to show now so we can get people to start developing for

01:26:06 ◼   ► the platform and thinking about the platform.

01:26:08 ◼   ► Yeah, hopefully it won't end up like Google Glass.

01:26:13 ◼   ► I think it's more intriguing than Google Glass, just fundamentally.

01:26:15 ◼   ► It is more intriguing.

01:26:17 ◼   ► It makes more sense, I think.

01:26:18 ◼   ► And the main part of it is it's demo-able, so people can actually see it.

01:26:23 ◼   ► And I think that is key.

01:26:24 ◼   ► And you're also not completely isolated from what's going on around you?

01:26:33 ◼   ► It's a see-through display at least.

01:26:35 ◼   ► I think Google Glass isn't dead.

01:26:37 ◼   ► I think it's going to go for an iteration.

01:26:40 ◼   ► They've ended the Explorer program, put Tony Fadelli in charge of the project.

01:26:44 ◼   ► The race for your face is on.

01:26:47 ◼   ► It's basically, you've got Facebook have got their place in it with buying Oculus.

01:26:53 ◼   ► I think looking at this today, if you measure the potential impressiveness of these two

01:27:00 ◼   ► technologies, I think Facebook will regret buying Oculus.

01:27:05 ◼   ► Because if this works out to be like Microsoft One, that to me looks like a more compelling

01:27:10 ◼   ► thing.

01:27:11 ◼   ► But who knows?

01:27:12 ◼   ► Who knows?

01:27:13 ◼   ► I mean, I've used an Oculus and I know how incredible that feels and how immersive that

01:27:18 ◼   ► is.

01:27:19 ◼   ► But there's a difference, I think, between having something like this where it pulls

01:27:24 ◼   ► you in and where it can project into your world.

01:27:26 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:27:27 ◼   ► I'd have to try both.

01:27:29 ◼   ► I think it only makes sense.

01:27:30 ◼   ► It's like inevitable.

01:27:33 ◼   ► After we've made technology so accessible, like the digital world so accessible on computers

01:27:39 ◼   ► and then smartphones and then tablets and then watches, now it's the time to actually

01:27:45 ◼   ► put all this stuff, whether it's videos and communications, so chat, video chats, messages,

01:27:51 ◼   ► games directly into, you know, beyond the screen really.

01:27:56 ◼   ► So on desks and like around us so we can just walk and do stuff at the same time.

01:28:02 ◼   ► It's kind of scary when you think about it.

01:28:05 ◼   ► Like we got these digital things that don't exist around us and we can see them.

01:28:11 ◼   ► It's kind of scary and kind of dystopian when you think about it.

01:28:14 ◼   ► that actually aren't really there.

01:28:16 ◼   ► Yeah, it's kind of dark as a concept, but it's also cool.

01:28:21 ◼   ► And I think it makes sense to move content, so people, communications, games, videos,

01:28:31 ◼   ► out of the screens and into anything, basically.

01:28:34 ◼   ► It makes sense.

01:28:35 ◼   ► I just wonder about the viability of...

01:28:39 ◼   ► I don't know, we'll see.

01:28:42 ◼   ► cool that Microsoft is doing this. We'll see how it goes, I guess.

01:28:47 ◼   ► I'm putting my stake in the ground to say that I am officially excited about

01:28:53 ◼   ► Microsoft. Yes, I am too. They seem to be making better stuff. I won't say great

01:29:00 ◼   ► stuff, but better stuff at least. And they've pre-announced that they

01:29:05 ◼   ► will have a new flagship phone and tablet devices at Mobile World Congress

01:29:10 ◼   ► this year. So they are making their own hardware now, which is always obvious

01:29:14 ◼   ► with the Nokia acquisition, but they've officially said that they will be a

01:29:18 ◼   ► mobile or congress. Which is in February. Yeah, in Barcelona. Barcelona. And then they have built in April.

01:29:25 ◼   ► I think it's Barcelona, not Barcelona. Yeah, I know. Barcelona. Yes, Barcelona is fine.

01:29:31 ◼   ► Our fake Spanish accent is terrible, Myke. Yes, it's horrendous. But yeah, then they said

01:29:38 ◼   ► built Build in April. So that about wraps it up for this week's episode of

01:29:45 ◼   ► Connected. Federica, thank you for joining me. I think we've had a really good

01:29:49 ◼   ► really really good show even though we lost a co-host to another podcast or

01:29:53 ◼   ► something. I think that we've done a really good job to show him why we're

01:29:57 ◼   ► the best. Hopefully. If you want to find the show notes for this week's episode go to

01:30:04 ◼   ► relay.fm/connected/23. If you would like to find us online, Mr. Federico Fatici

01:30:12 ◼   ► writes at maxstories.net, he is @fatici on Twitter, V-I-T-I-C-C-I. I am @imike,

01:30:18 ◼   ► I-M-Y-K-E, and you can find our portraying co-host @ismh on Twitter. All I'm gonna

01:30:28 ◼   ► say guys is we have something super cool next week so keep your eyes peeled for that we

01:30:35 ◼   ► have something very very special to share with you thanks so much to our fantastic sponsors

01:30:40 ◼   ► our friends over at smile automatic and Linda and we'll be back next time take a bye Federico

01:30:48 ◼   ► Arrivederci