Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 85.

00:00:10 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace and Braintree.

00:00:14 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I'm joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Hello, Steven Hackett.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hello, Michael Hurley.

00:00:20 ◼   ► And hello, Federico Vittucci. Hello, Federico Vittucci.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hello, guys. Hello, Myke Hurley.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hello. I'm back again. Tag team back again.

00:00:28 ◼   ► You survived, so that's good news.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Yep, yep. I always survive.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Was it just a week ago you were gone?

00:00:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it was just last week.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Yeah, it was last week.

00:00:38 ◼   ► So the other day, Myke, on the Italian news,

00:00:40 ◼   ► they were talking about the Queen of England turning 90.

00:00:44 ◼   ► Like, this week, I think?

00:00:46 ◼   ► Yeah, something like that.

00:00:48 ◼   ► You guys having a big celebration over there?

00:00:50 ◼   ► There is a thing happening, I believe.

00:00:52 ◼   ► But I'm not currently involved in it.

00:00:56 ◼   ► Because I thought the birthday of the Queen was like the birthday of everyone in England,

00:01:04 ◼   ► like everyone is celebrating, having cake, but I guess it's not what I imagined.

00:01:09 ◼   ► There are like, I think there's this like campaign to clean up London for the Queen's

00:01:13 ◼   ► birthday.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Oh, that's nice!

00:01:15 ◼   ► Like rubbish-wise, yeah, which is, you know, it's quite nice I guess.

00:01:21 ◼   ► But you're not cleaning up London.

00:01:23 ◼   ► I'm sounding right now like I don't appreciate the royal family, where I'm actually a supporter

00:01:29 ◼   ► of the royal family.

00:01:30 ◼   ► I think that it's nice that we have them.

00:01:33 ◼   ► I'm just not personally prepared for the Queen's birthday.

00:01:39 ◼   ► To clean up London.

00:01:40 ◼   ► To clean up London.

00:01:41 ◼   ► You're not prepared to clean up London.

00:01:42 ◼   ► That's okay.

00:01:43 ◼   ► That's okay, Myke.

00:01:44 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not on my list.

00:01:46 ◼   ► But we do have some follow-up.

00:01:47 ◼   ► That is on my list.

00:01:48 ◼   ► I did notice the follow-up sound last week.

00:01:50 ◼   ► It made me smile.

00:01:51 ◼   ► I'm glad you did.

00:01:52 ◼   ► I didn't get many comments about that, so.

00:01:55 ◼   ► My thought is some people didn't know what it was,

00:01:57 ◼   ► and were just confused.

00:01:58 ◼   ► - We've lost all of the prompt listeners.

00:01:59 ◼   ► They've all gone away now.

00:02:00 ◼   ► - They've all gone.

00:02:02 ◼   ► Yeah, so last week, Federica and I discussed

00:02:05 ◼   ► the couple issues with iOS 9.3,

00:02:07 ◼   ► and as predicted, 9.3.1 came out a couple days later.

00:02:12 ◼   ► It's been out.

00:02:13 ◼   ► I feel like it's soft things.

00:02:14 ◼   ► It seems like all that chatter's kinda settled down,

00:02:18 ◼   ► which is good, I guess.

00:02:19 ◼   ► - It's all gone.

00:02:21 ◼   ► So if you haven't updated, go update.

00:02:23 ◼   ► It's all better.

00:02:24 ◼   ► - Or maybe it's just because those people

00:02:25 ◼   ► can't access Twitter because their iOS devices are broke.

00:02:29 ◼   ► - It's true.

00:02:30 ◼   ► - That's one way to deal with it.

00:02:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's an update but my phone

00:02:34 ◼   ► is basically a potato now, so too bad.

00:02:37 ◼   ► In the category of Year of Techie,

00:02:41 ◼   ► listener Jimmy wrote in and said,

00:02:44 ◼   ► "In the spirit of #YearOfTechie, I just bought an Echo."

00:02:48 ◼   ► and he goes on to talk about Spotify and Apple Music.

00:02:53 ◼   ► And a comment that we haven't really touched on

00:02:55 ◼   ► in this conversation, that Apple Prime Music

00:02:57 ◼   ► is basically like inscrutable.

00:03:00 ◼   ► So with the Echo, Amazon has a music streaming service,

00:03:04 ◼   ► and so you can just tell the Echo,

00:03:06 ◼   ► "Hey, go play The Killers,"

00:03:08 ◼   ► and it will play something.

00:03:12 ◼   ► But the problem is it's a very small library,

00:03:14 ◼   ► and so I've got a couple bands I really like that

00:03:16 ◼   ► have like one or two random albums. It's

00:03:18 ◼   ► not a very complete listing. And in fact

00:03:21 ◼   ► it became such a problem in my household

00:03:24 ◼   ► that we are now paying for Spotify

00:03:26 ◼   ► because of the Echo. And so you say, "Hey,

00:03:29 ◼   ► you know, Echo play this album by this

00:03:33 ◼   ► band on Spotify." And it's great. It works

00:03:37 ◼   ► really well and it's really the first

00:03:39 ◼   ► time I've ever paid for a music streaming

00:03:40 ◼   ► service and Echo has forced my hand there.

00:03:43 ◼   ► But it's nice and it's nice to have

00:03:45 ◼   ► have sort of all that available to you just with the sound of your voice but of

00:03:50 ◼   ► course if you're paying for Apple music that's not there and I think the Sonos

00:03:56 ◼   ► is probably a better choice if you're in the Apple music system only but I know

00:04:03 ◼   ► you're using Spotify I think we're going to get to that but it's interesting

00:04:07 ◼   ► that like this hardware device finally forced my hand to join the streaming

00:04:11 ◼   ► revolution. Yeah, the Spotify integration on the Echo is just, it's very good, you

00:04:16 ◼   ► know, because you can just, for example, I'm just walking around the kitchen and

00:04:20 ◼   ► I think of a song and I can just ask the Echo and it's the kind of, you know,

00:04:24 ◼   ► convenience and, you know, the kind of natural interface that I wasn't

00:04:30 ◼   ► expecting it to make this much sense to me but I guess it just does and I know

00:04:35 ◼   ► that people are gonna say, well, you can just do the same with Siri on the iPhone

00:04:38 ◼   ► But the thing is, I'm not walking around my house constantly looking at my phone.

00:04:44 ◼   ► And there's a certain freedom, I guess, in being able to just walk up to the Echo and

00:04:48 ◼   ► just say "play this song" and it plays.

00:04:51 ◼   ► It's nice.

00:04:52 ◼   ► And I guess it's sort of another argument in favor of this kind of voice interface that

00:04:59 ◼   ► constantly listens to you.

00:05:00 ◼   ► I know that a lot of people don't like it, but we're using the Echo, we like it.

00:05:04 ◼   ► I keep seeing a lot of people on Twitter buying the Echo these days.

00:05:08 ◼   ► So we'll see what Apple does in the future.

00:05:11 ◼   ► I would be surprised if they're not considering or making something like this, but we don't

00:05:16 ◼   ► know.

00:05:17 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:05:18 ◼   ► Yeah, it's, I mean, like we keep coming back to, this whole thing is just in so much flux

00:05:26 ◼   ► right now.

00:05:27 ◼   ► But it's fascinating to look at.

00:05:28 ◼   ► And we're going to get into a little bit more of the home automation stuff today, I think.

00:05:32 ◼   ► But the whole gamut of devices is really up in the air.

00:05:37 ◼   ► We spoke, I think last week, about this iMac project that I have embarked on.

00:05:45 ◼   ► Project is a nice way to call it.

00:05:47 ◼   ► You guys are so mean to me.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Like an obsession.

00:05:51 ◼   ► I have a blog post up on 512 outlining the 13 flavors of iMac and the ones that I have.

00:05:59 ◼   ► I have four of them in my trunk right now waiting to be unloaded once I get off the

00:06:04 ◼   ► podcast.

00:06:05 ◼   ► I'm going from storing them at my house where my wife was getting upset to storing them

00:06:08 ◼   ► at my office where my brother will get upset.

00:06:11 ◼   ► So what can you do?

00:06:12 ◼   ► Not buy 13 IMAX?

00:06:15 ◼   ► Well so this is the thing, this is the stroke of brilliance that I've had is I should crowd

00:06:19 ◼   ► source it.

00:06:21 ◼   ► And so I have posted this thing on 512, I'm going to keep this updated and as you can

00:06:27 ◼   ► see the progress and I have gotten like it's up to like 40 emails now of people who have

00:06:32 ◼   ► various IMAX offering them up for sacrifice to the project. It's not sacrifice, they'll

00:06:38 ◼   ► be treated very well. For research, you want to call it research, not sacrifice. And so

00:06:43 ◼   ► I've got, I mean there's readers with like IMAX all over the place who I'm talking with

00:06:48 ◼   ► and getting them shipped to Memphis so that's super humbling like I put this up and I thought

00:06:53 ◼   ► maybe one or two people will get in touch.

00:06:55 ◼   ► And like Saturday, I worked outside all day in the yard

00:06:58 ◼   ► and I kind of picked up my phone in the afternoon

00:07:00 ◼   ► and it's like my email just blown up,

00:07:02 ◼   ► people saying, "I've got this one, I have that one."

00:07:04 ◼   ► You know, I think my aunt has my old,

00:07:05 ◼   ► you know, iMac in her attic,

00:07:07 ◼   ► I'll check next time I'm there.

00:07:08 ◼   ► Like it's really exciting.

00:07:09 ◼   ► So that link's in the show notes and it's getting close.

00:07:13 ◼   ► Like I have actually one showing up today,

00:07:17 ◼   ► Flower Power shows up today, which I'm--

00:07:19 ◼   ► - Wow.

00:07:21 ◼   ► See that, that, I can't, that's, that's sarcasm, Myke, it hurts me.

00:07:24 ◼   ► That wasn't sarcasm.

00:07:26 ◼   ► Hurts me on the inside.

00:07:27 ◼   ► The flower power one I thought would be rarer, so I'm, you know, surprised that it's come through so easily for you.

00:07:33 ◼   ► So what happens, Stephen, when you collect all, when you complete these Pokedex of IMAX?

00:07:39 ◼   ► Don't catch more than that.

00:07:40 ◼   ► What happens?

00:07:41 ◼   ► So it's gonna be, it's gonna be a couple things.

00:07:44 ◼   ► I'm gonna do a big video, like I've been, look at this email right now.

00:07:49 ◼   ► I'm going to be doing a video like I've been doing on the YouTube channel. I have very

00:07:56 ◼   ► grand plans for this video. In fact, I have purchased some equipment to help me with this

00:08:01 ◼   ► video. I'm also going to need many hired hands to help just move them around because they're

00:08:05 ◼   ► all very heavy. But I've got some other ideas too. I've got some other things that I want

00:08:09 ◼   ► to do with this. Ultimately, I have an idea of how to display them, but it's just like

00:08:15 ◼   ► a project that really started as just a wild hare, it's like all of a sudden taken its

00:08:20 ◼   ► own life and is just really like run away with people getting involved. But yeah, FlyerPower

00:08:28 ◼   ► was fun. It actually came from Reddit, someone on the Vintage Apple Reddit is mailing me

00:08:33 ◼   ► that one. What has been interesting, well interesting to me, then we can move on because

00:08:39 ◼   ► I know you guys are falling asleep, but.

00:08:41 ◼   ► - No, no.

00:08:42 ◼   ► - In the email responses, it's been really interesting

00:08:47 ◼   ► to see which ones people have.

00:08:49 ◼   ► Like a lot of people have the original one.

00:08:51 ◼   ► Much, I mean this is a very limited sample size, right?

00:08:53 ◼   ► But like people held on to the original iMac.

00:08:56 ◼   ► 'Cause a lot of people, it was like their first Mac,

00:08:59 ◼   ► or it was their Mac their parents bought

00:09:01 ◼   ► when they were in school.

00:09:02 ◼   ► I have several people email me,

00:09:03 ◼   ► I'm like this was the computer I grew up on

00:09:04 ◼   ► and we've just always kept it.

00:09:06 ◼   ► And one guy emailed me and he was like,

00:09:09 ◼   ► I don't want it to go to a dump,

00:09:10 ◼   ► like I'd rather it go to you, like be part of a project.

00:09:15 ◼   ► So it's been fun.

00:09:18 ◼   ► But graphite and snow seem by far to be the most popular.

00:09:22 ◼   ► Like I don't know how many emails I've gotten

00:09:23 ◼   ► about those two models in particular.

00:09:26 ◼   ► And then a couple others like Ruby, no one seems to have.

00:09:29 ◼   ► And so that one may be much harder to track down

00:09:31 ◼   ► than I thought it was.

00:09:32 ◼   ► - I was gonna ask you if there's one

00:09:33 ◼   ► that is harder than others.

00:09:34 ◼   ► I guess you are finding that out just via this project.

00:09:38 ◼   ► - I mean, I think, so like all the fruit flavors,

00:09:41 ◼   ► you know, they did five at a time,

00:09:42 ◼   ► and they did two generations of those.

00:09:44 ◼   ► And those are harder because they're just more of them,

00:09:47 ◼   ► right, so if they sold a million five flavors,

00:09:49 ◼   ► then that's divided up across five colors,

00:09:51 ◼   ► where other generations just had one or two colors.

00:09:54 ◼   ► But I think almost everything except Ruby,

00:09:57 ◼   ► I currently have, at least have a lead on

00:09:59 ◼   ► somewhere in my inbox, so.

00:10:00 ◼   ► So yeah, that's just coming right along,

00:10:04 ◼   ► and I cleared off some storage space here at the office

00:10:07 ◼   ► and I'm gonna be moving them inside as soon as we get done.

00:10:10 ◼   ► - If it gets really difficult, you could just paint one.

00:10:13 ◼   ► - I think that's cheating.

00:10:15 ◼   ► - Pretend, just pretend.

00:10:16 ◼   ► - Mic solution is the best.

00:10:17 ◼   ► - Well, 'cause what do you do if you have 12 of them

00:10:20 ◼   ► and a year goes by and you haven't got the 13th?

00:10:23 ◼   ► - You keep searching, mic.

00:10:25 ◼   ► - That just feels like a horrible thing.

00:10:28 ◼   ► - Ultimately, something has to pop up on eBay, right?

00:10:30 ◼   ► So, we'll see.

00:10:32 ◼   ► - Well, the time did, so.

00:10:34 ◼   ► It's true. Damn did. Anyways, moving on from iMacHorn, still talking about the Mac.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Myke, people have sent us a couple more emails about your comment about the Mac Mini server

00:10:46 ◼   ► that you have sort of spoken about doing. Have you thought any more about that? People

00:10:50 ◼   ► are like interested in this, they want to know what you're doing.

00:10:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I want to set it up. I haven't set it up. I'm collecting links from people of like

00:10:56 ◼   ► things that I should be checking out, like apps and stuff, but I've had a really crazy

00:11:02 ◼   ► travel schedule as listeners of this show will know and I'm about to go away again for

00:11:07 ◼   ► RelayCon Atlanta next week.

00:11:09 ◼   ► So I haven't really had the time to properly sit and do this.

00:11:16 ◼   ► Like I want to do it over a weekend but I haven't had a free weekend.

00:11:20 ◼   ► So that is still coming and when I do go through setting up the Mac mini server I'll dedicate

00:11:25 ◼   ► some time on this show to talking about my experiences and the things that I'm doing

00:11:30 ◼   ► to try and make that work for me.

00:11:31 ◼   ► Okay. Yeah that's that's the fun part about it right like you can do as little

00:11:37 ◼   ► or as much with something like this as you want. Lots of good options. The iPhone

00:11:42 ◼   ► SE is out as we spoke about. We've ordered one it showed up yesterday in my

00:11:46 ◼   ► household. I moved my wife's stuff from her 6s to the SE last night and I handed

00:11:51 ◼   ► it to her after I'd moved everything over and she was just instantly in love

00:11:54 ◼   ► with it. So she you know down to the point where like using the same case and

00:12:00 ◼   ► and very quickly slipped back into her use case she had before the bigger phone. In my

00:12:06 ◼   ► sample size of one iPhone SE, it's 100% customer satisfaction rate.

00:12:11 ◼   ► Wow, Tim will be so happy. It's off the charts at my house, Myke.

00:12:16 ◼   ► Oh really? There are not even any charts anymore.

00:12:21 ◼   ► As far as the phone itself, it is an iPhone 5 or 5S. It is that phone. If you didn't know

00:12:29 ◼   ► the details you would be hard-pressed to notice the differences. It is incredibly

00:12:33 ◼   ► fast. You know it's the same just the one on chip that are on the bigger phones

00:12:38 ◼   ► but with less screen and of course anytime you set up a phone from scratch

00:12:41 ◼   ► you know there's always that sort of new feeling to it but in my time with it

00:12:46 ◼   ► last night it was pretty impressive and the camera is really great. I will say

00:12:53 ◼   ► that the thing that still gets me with the size is not only the keyboard which

00:12:58 ◼   ► which I basically destroyed my Apple ID password,

00:13:00 ◼   ► trying to type it in over and over.

00:13:02 ◼   ► But when you go take a picture,

00:13:04 ◼   ► the viewfinder is just so much smaller, right?

00:13:06 ◼   ► Because the screen is so much smaller.

00:13:08 ◼   ► I really found it where that,

00:13:10 ◼   ► like those two examples where the screen size

00:13:12 ◼   ► really similar to me that I can't go back.

00:13:15 ◼   ► We're trying to take a picture

00:13:16 ◼   ► and it's just like you're looking through a postage stamp.

00:13:18 ◼   ► But she loves it and it's a nice phone.

00:13:21 ◼   ► I think if you're on the fence,

00:13:22 ◼   ► it's definitely worth checking out.

00:13:26 ◼   ► Yeah, we still haven't come to a decision yet, in regards to what Adina's gonna do.

00:13:32 ◼   ► It was interesting, I was talking to Sylvia about this because she's been looking forward

00:13:37 ◼   ► to the smaller iPhone, and she told me, basically she wants to use the smaller iPhone, but she

00:13:44 ◼   ► doesn't want to move to the iPhone SE, if only because the iPhone 7 is coming in September,

00:13:50 ◼   ► and she sort of caught the bug from me to always use the latest iPhone.

00:13:55 ◼   ► You know, just because we now have the habit of buying a new phone, then we sell the phone

00:14:00 ◼   ► and we buy the new one, just because we want to use the latest iPhone.

00:14:03 ◼   ► So she asked me, "Do you believe there's going to be an iPhone 7 SE in September?"

00:14:09 ◼   ► And I told her, "Well, the word on Twitter is that this is a special edition, it's not

00:14:15 ◼   ► going to receive the same update cycle as the 6S and the 6S Plus."

00:14:20 ◼   ► And she doesn't want to use the sif that's gonna be, you know, outdated by September.

00:14:25 ◼   ► So that's interesting.

00:14:26 ◼   ► I guess maybe Apple doesn't want to cater to, you know, people who want to buy the latest

00:14:32 ◼   ► iPhone but also have it be a small iPhone.

00:14:36 ◼   ► I imagine, you know, there being like a Venn diagram of people who want the latest iPhone,

00:14:40 ◼   ► people who want the smaller iPhone, and Apple doesn't believe there's an intersection between

00:14:43 ◼   ► those two kinds of people.

00:14:45 ◼   ► So she's gonna get an iPhone 7 in the 4.7 inch size.

00:14:50 ◼   ► She ultimately decided not to get the DSC just because it's not gonna receive, or most likely

00:14:55 ◼   ► it's not gonna receive an update in September.

00:14:57 ◼   ► Right.

00:14:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know if this product will become like a regular thing, but I think it's safe

00:15:06 ◼   ► to say that there won't be one in September because they've just put this product out

00:15:11 ◼   ► now in March.

00:15:12 ◼   ► Right.

00:15:13 ◼   ► there may be one, I think there might be one next year, maybe, but I would be very surprised

00:15:19 ◼   ► if there was a four-inch phone, a new one debuted in six months time. That seems kind

00:15:26 ◼   ► of crazy to me that they would do that. I don't expect it, really.

00:15:30 ◼   ► Yeah, me neither. Yeah.

00:15:32 ◼   ► So we'll see. UIKit on the Mac, Steven, you have a follow-up?

00:15:37 ◼   ► Yeah, so I came across this blog post by Brent Simmons, who's of course a long-time Mac developer.

00:15:43 ◼   ► And we'll have a link in the show notes.

00:15:45 ◼   ► And I'm not going to try to summarize the technical aspects of this because it's

00:15:49 ◼   ► just at the edge of what I can fully grasp, honestly.

00:15:52 ◼   ► But he closes the article with a theory why there aren't more Mac apps.

00:15:59 ◼   ► And it's definitely worth the read.

00:16:01 ◼   ► And basically, part of his argument is that bringing UIKit to the Mac may be

00:16:07 ◼   ► sort of a false argument that developers may look and say, well, I would come to

00:16:10 ◼   ► the Mac if UIKit was there.

00:16:13 ◼   ► But in reality, there's a lot more needed

00:16:16 ◼   ► to make a good Mac app.

00:16:17 ◼   ► That just moving to UIKit doesn't,

00:16:19 ◼   ► as complicated as that is,

00:16:21 ◼   ► and he brings up some good points about that,

00:16:23 ◼   ► is that it doesn't really solve the problem

00:16:24 ◼   ► of what makes a Mac app good.

00:16:27 ◼   ► And that a lot of work that you don't have to do on iOS,

00:16:30 ◼   ► you do have to do on the Mac

00:16:31 ◼   ► because the Mac is more complicated, right?

00:16:34 ◼   ► You have menus, you have live resizing,

00:16:36 ◼   ► you have AppleScript, and all that places a burden

00:16:40 ◼   ► on developers that UIKit won't solve.

00:16:42 ◼   ► I just found it interesting you know the the idea that

00:16:46 ◼   ► there's a confident that the Mac is stable and it is a platform where most of the changes behind it right that that

00:16:55 ◼   ► Os 10 or Mac OS if it's renamed

00:16:57 ◼   ► that that platform is very much a known quantity and

00:17:03 ◼   ► That to a degree makes it a little bit boring and that iOS is still you know however long

00:17:11 ◼   ► eight years since the iOS App Store now,

00:17:15 ◼   ► that it's still the wild west,

00:17:16 ◼   ► and there's still excitement there,

00:17:17 ◼   ► and that the platform is still rapidly changing, right?

00:17:20 ◼   ► Like, even if you just look at the last three years

00:17:22 ◼   ► between iOS 7, 8, and 9, how many changes we've seen,

00:17:26 ◼   ► and that those two things couple together,

00:17:29 ◼   ► that the Mac is more complicated to develop for

00:17:32 ◼   ► in some ways that iOS developers may not be familiar with,

00:17:35 ◼   ► and that iOS feels like a more vibrant platform,

00:17:39 ◼   ► that those two things are kind of working together

00:17:41 ◼   ► against this idea that, oh, just put UIKit on the Mac

00:17:44 ◼   ► and developers will come raining down on it.

00:17:47 ◼   ► And so I thought it was an interesting continuation

00:17:50 ◼   ► of the conversation we've been having on the show.

00:17:53 ◼   ► And I don't know if UIKit or that UXKit project

00:17:57 ◼   ► is ever going to see the light of day.

00:17:59 ◼   ► But if it does, I think it'd be foolish to think

00:18:01 ◼   ► that it's like a magic bullet to fixing the Mac app problem.

00:18:05 ◼   ► I think that maybe the way to solve this

00:18:08 ◼   ► is kind of the redefinition of what makes a good Mac app,

00:18:12 ◼   ► as well as looking at other things.

00:18:16 ◼   ► Like, how many people use AppleScript?

00:18:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, and there is that underlying thing, right,

00:18:23 ◼   ► that the sort of applications that Brent Simmons has worked

00:18:26 ◼   ► on are sort of for power users,

00:18:28 ◼   ► sort of like old school Mac users.

00:18:30 ◼   ► And there's a lot of apps on my system that, you know,

00:18:32 ◼   ► are from the Mac App Store age that don't support

00:18:35 ◼   ► some of that stuff, and so, yeah, absolutely,

00:18:37 ◼   ► I mean you can go without it, but you can't go without menus or you can't go without live resizing, right?

00:18:41 ◼   ► Like you open a Mac app and the window doesn't resize people gonna freak out. So yeah. Yeah, there are things there

00:18:46 ◼   ► But I think I think it's a bit of give and take on that one. Honestly, I think it's more work

00:18:51 ◼   ► But also there has to be less maybe assumed

00:18:54 ◼   ► as to what a Mac app should be because

00:18:57 ◼   ► Seriously, I would love to know

00:19:00 ◼   ► How many people you know the percentage wise use Apple script even an app like pages for example?

00:19:06 ◼   ► Oh yeah, where everybody was screaming about it?

00:19:10 ◼   ► I think you're right.

00:19:11 ◼   ► There's um, that's got to be a low number, but um...

00:19:15 ◼   ► It reminds me of that thing from the talk show episode with Federiki and Q. It's one

00:19:20 ◼   ► of my favorite little quotes is that everyone was really upset about you couldn't use Bluetooth

00:19:24 ◼   ► keyboards on the Apple TV, but their statistics showed that during WWDC nobody used them.

00:19:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So it's like you can, you know, they say we do these things for this audience, but it's

00:19:37 ◼   ► worth remembering that sometimes that kind of hardcore audience are the only people that

00:19:41 ◼   ► use a feature.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Sure.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Yeah, the interesting argument there is that the people who make the news, in a sense,

00:19:51 ◼   ► about Apple are also the geeky people who use their devices a lot.

00:19:56 ◼   ► So of course, bloggers and tech reporters, they use Apple devices more, and maybe in

00:20:02 ◼   ► a different way than the average customer.

00:20:05 ◼   ► And because they have the power to spread the news, they can point out these aspects

00:20:10 ◼   ► that people wouldn't know about, but after these people write about them, they do know

00:20:14 ◼   ► about them, they do know about those problems.

00:20:17 ◼   ► So it's sort of a chicken and egg problem.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Do we want to build this feature for everyone, or do we want to build them for geeky Apple

00:20:25 ◼   ► users, but if we don't, then those people are going to write about them and then everyone

00:20:30 ◼   ► will know what we've done. So it's interesting, right, that you're sort of stuck in the middle.

00:20:39 ◼   ► You know you're going to upset some people, but also I totally understand why Apple sees

00:20:44 ◼   ► the data and says "ok, well, you know, during WWDC, developers are the only kind of users

00:20:50 ◼   ► who use Bluetooth keyboards, so it's maybe not a priority. It's an interesting position.

00:20:57 ◼   ► Yep, it really is. Alright, shall we take off our first break?

00:21:02 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah, let's do it.

00:21:04 ◼   ► This week's episode is brought to you by Braintree, code for easy mobile payments. Maybe you're

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00:22:05 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Braintree for their support of this show and Relay FM. Do you like that?

00:22:13 ◼   ► I'm slowing it down. Very dramatic.

00:22:18 ◼   ► Safari Technology Preview.

00:22:23 ◼   ► See, now I don't know when you're done if you're just going to say another word or somebody's silence.

00:22:27 ◼   ► Preview.

00:22:29 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm done now.

00:22:30 ◼   ► Okay, so if this was last week,

00:22:33 ◼   ► Apple released sort of a separate build of Safari called Safari Technology Preview

00:22:39 ◼   ► that sort of super sets the old WebKit nightlies,

00:22:43 ◼   ► and I think they were still around,

00:22:44 ◼   ► but this is a sort of an easy way to think about it,

00:22:48 ◼   ► is a beta version of Safari.

00:22:50 ◼   ► You can run it alongside normal Safari.

00:22:52 ◼   ► It's signed, so you get all your iCloud stuff in it,

00:22:54 ◼   ► which is nice, and it's sort of a glimpse

00:22:57 ◼   ► at where Safari is going, and as Sarah used to point out

00:23:01 ◼   ► on ATP, the best part of it is that the icon's purple

00:23:03 ◼   ► instead of blue, and I've been running it,

00:23:06 ◼   ► and I had a couple of thoughts.

00:23:08 ◼   ► I switched to Chrome full-time about a year and a half ago.

00:23:15 ◼   ► For-- you know, Safari was problematic

00:23:18 ◼   ► under the last version of OS X for a lot of users,

00:23:21 ◼   ► including me.

00:23:22 ◼   ► And I really was in a situation where

00:23:23 ◼   ► I needed multiple browser profiles, where in Chrome you

00:23:27 ◼   ► can set up sort of different users within Chrome.

00:23:29 ◼   ► You have different bookmarks, different history,

00:23:30 ◼   ► different plugins, that sort of thing.

00:23:32 ◼   ► So I had a personal one and a work one.

00:23:34 ◼   ► I still have the need for that today,

00:23:35 ◼   ► especially with the YouTube stuff.

00:23:37 ◼   ► I learned from Gray just to have that be a completely different world.

00:23:41 ◼   ► So I have a YouTube like manager Chrome profile and I only go in there and I'm uploading a

00:23:46 ◼   ► video and that's it.

00:23:47 ◼   ► It's only then I get out of it.

00:23:50 ◼   ► But overall I've been sort of less happy with Chrome over time in the sense that it more

00:23:56 ◼   ► and more feels like it is a sort of a mini operating system unto itself.

00:24:01 ◼   ► It doesn't feel very native on the Mac.

00:24:03 ◼   ► It doesn't have all the OS X sharing stuff

00:24:06 ◼   ► that Safari has.

00:24:08 ◼   ► And so I decided with this technology preview

00:24:11 ◼   ► to give Safari another shot.

00:24:14 ◼   ► And instantly it is great to have your history

00:24:16 ◼   ► and your open tabs and your,

00:24:18 ◼   ► especially your bookmark synced across your iOS devices.

00:24:21 ◼   ► I really like that.

00:24:23 ◼   ► But Safari's still problematic in some ways.

00:24:26 ◼   ► And even though this technology preview,

00:24:29 ◼   ► like it feels faster than Safari side by side,

00:24:31 ◼   ► it feels much more stable.

00:24:33 ◼   ► It still has a lot of the weirdness that Safari has, right?

00:24:39 ◼   ► Where sometimes things don't work in Safari

00:24:42 ◼   ► but will work in Chrome.

00:24:43 ◼   ► I actually ran into that just last night

00:24:44 ◼   ► looking at someone's website where

00:24:46 ◼   ► there was a sign up form that just straight up

00:24:48 ◼   ► didn't work in Safari and it had to go to Chrome.

00:24:50 ◼   ► But--

00:24:51 ◼   ► - Perfect.

00:24:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I emailed it, I was like,

00:24:54 ◼   ► "Hey, you know your thing is broken in the browser

00:24:56 ◼   ► "that most people, you know, that's the default browser.

00:24:59 ◼   ► "FYI, maybe you wanna look at that."

00:25:01 ◼   ► And it still has the most asinine design decision ever made by the company of centering things

00:25:09 ◼   ► in the Safari toolbar.

00:25:11 ◼   ► Like why do my bookmarks have to be centered?

00:25:13 ◼   ► Why do I have to fight to keep my address bar, you know, the location bar centered when

00:25:19 ◼   ► plugins get updated and everything moves around?

00:25:21 ◼   ► Like it's the most frustrating thing I've ever used on the computer.

00:25:24 ◼   ► But all that aside, what I want to talk about a little bit

00:25:29 ◼   ► was like why Apple's doing this now,

00:25:34 ◼   ► and why all of a sudden does it feel like

00:25:38 ◼   ► that they are paying attention to Safari

00:25:40 ◼   ► where in the past it's always been locked to OS releases.

00:25:44 ◼   ► You wouldn't get a Safari update

00:25:45 ◼   ► until the new version of OS X came out.

00:25:48 ◼   ► Now Apple, to be fair in that comment,

00:25:50 ◼   ► has been good most of the time

00:25:52 ◼   ► where if you were on Lion and Mountain Lion comes out,

00:25:56 ◼   ► Mountain Lion comes out with a new version of Safari,

00:25:58 ◼   ► then Lion gets that version too, right?

00:26:00 ◼   ► So they sort of lump in old users

00:26:02 ◼   ► with the new version of Safari.

00:26:04 ◼   ► But of course there's a limit

00:26:06 ◼   ► to that backward compatibility.

00:26:08 ◼   ► And it just feels like all of a sudden Apple's realizing

00:26:10 ◼   ► that Safari is an important part of their platform

00:26:14 ◼   ► and they're doing this and again it's out in the open,

00:26:16 ◼   ► which is fun.

00:26:17 ◼   ► But I know Myke, you use Chrome full-time, right?

00:26:21 ◼   ► even on iOS?

00:26:22 ◼   ► - Yeah, I still do, yeah.

00:26:24 ◼   ► - Still do.

00:26:25 ◼   ► So why have you stopped using or looking at Safari?

00:26:30 ◼   ► - I switched away from Safari to Chrome

00:26:33 ◼   ► because Google Docs wasn't working in Safari.

00:26:36 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:26:37 ◼   ► - That was why I moved away.

00:26:38 ◼   ► And then since, so then I moved to Chrome on my iOS devices

00:26:43 ◼   ► because I wanted to have tabs

00:26:45 ◼   ► and history data syncing everywhere.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And since then, it's just like this just makes sense for me

00:26:50 ◼   ► so many ways. Using Chrome as my browser gives me additional benefits in the

00:26:55 ◼   ► Google ecosystem. Like the Google Apps and Google Now stuff, if I ever use that

00:27:03 ◼   ► and when I do use that, it knows my browsing history so it recommends

00:27:06 ◼   ► stories and things like that to me. You know we've spoken about these things in

00:27:10 ◼   ► the past, that's all really good but primarily now all of my history, my

00:27:14 ◼   ► browsing history is in Chrome. I never have any problems with it so why would I

00:27:18 ◼   ► move back? I can't think of anything that Safari could give me that Chrome

00:27:23 ◼   ► doesn't give me considering I'm not freaking out about Google privacy stuff

00:27:30 ◼   ► because we don't need to retread that ground. So why would I

00:27:35 ◼   ► move back? For me I don't see the point of it. I like the fact that I can

00:27:39 ◼   ► really easily call up my tabs from any of my devices and I mean I know you can

00:27:45 ◼   ► do that stuff in Safari, but it's just like why would I switch back, right? Like I'm all

00:27:51 ◼   ► in on Chrome, it works really good for me, I never have any problems, I can view anything

00:27:55 ◼   ► I need to view. On my Mac I don't have to have Flash installed because I use Chrome.

00:28:00 ◼   ► There are all these good things that I like about it, it works really well for me, I'm

00:28:05 ◼   ► just gonna stick with it.

00:28:07 ◼   ► I think it's a lot easier these days to use Chrome as your main browser on iOS, especially

00:28:13 ◼   ► if you don't use Apple apps like Mail and Messages. So those apps cannot open a link

00:28:19 ◼   ► in Google Chrome, they just go to Safari. I'll tell you one of the things that made

00:28:23 ◼   ► this really so much better for me was Peek and Pop. I don't need to open the windows

00:28:28 ◼   ► anymore to view something that somebody sends me in a link, so it's not an issue, I just

00:28:33 ◼   ► view it and then just let it go, and I never open Safari.

00:28:36 ◼   ► A lot of third party apps like Tweetbot and Slack, which we use all the time, they support

00:28:41 ◼   ► Chrome directly and Chrome has offered the feature to go back to the previous app for

00:28:46 ◼   ► like several years now. There's like a back button in the top left. So it's a lot easier,

00:28:52 ◼   ► especially if you don't rely on mail messages and I guess web links from Siri, but come

00:28:59 ◼   ► on, who uses those? It's a lot easier these days to use Chrome on iOS. And I personally

00:29:04 ◼   ► went back and forth between Chrome and Safari a couple of years ago. I've been using Safari

00:29:09 ◼   ► for the past two years on my iOS devices, I'm a really happy Safari user. But I understand

00:29:16 ◼   ► why you prefer Chrome, especially for the Google Now stuff, Voice Search, which is a

00:29:22 ◼   ► lot faster than using Siri or Safari. I think it makes sense to, if you're a Google customer,

00:29:31 ◼   ► if you're deep into the Google ecosystem, it's now possible to sort of use it as your

00:29:35 ◼   ► primary browser on iOS. The Safari Web Preview, Technology Preview on OS X is

00:29:41 ◼   ► interesting to me for two reasons. One is Apple is slowly but surely opening up

00:29:47 ◼   ► more and more to external testing. So we've seen this with OS X before, then

00:29:52 ◼   ► iOS, watchOS, you know the public betas and now even the single app is having a

00:29:57 ◼   ► technology preview. So it seems to me a symptom of Apple trying to gather as

00:30:03 ◼   ► much input from users as possible, and that's a good thing, I feel.

00:30:10 ◼   ► The second is sort of a veiled response to the criticism that they got about Safari for

00:30:15 ◼   ► the past year, maybe, about Apple being sort of behind in terms of web technologies that

00:30:24 ◼   ► are supporting Safari.

00:30:25 ◼   ► And you can see this in the features that are available in the Safari Technology Preview.

00:30:30 ◼   ► There were a couple of articles a couple of months back about the problems with Safari

00:30:36 ◼   ► compared to other browsers like Chrome and Firefox.

00:30:40 ◼   ► And it seems that Apple is addressing those issues and trying to make it easier for web

00:30:43 ◼   ► developers to build and debug complex web apps using Safari.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So I feel like it's two main reasons.

00:30:54 ◼   ► testing, being more open to the developer community, and also trying to show how

00:31:00 ◼   ► Apple is thinking about the state of web technologies on Safari. So that's a big

00:31:06 ◼   ► thumbs up for me.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I think the reason that Apple has sort of had this newfound

00:31:14 ◼   ► spotlight on Safari is exactly what Myke's talking about, that Chrome is

00:31:20 ◼   ► really good and there is a battery life problem on the Mac that is pretty

00:31:26 ◼   ► atrocious actually but as a browser and Myke you're on an iMac so I was plugged in so who cares

00:31:34 ◼   ► exactly doesn't bother me I was just about to say that yeah you just see your power meter

00:31:38 ◼   ► like spinning faster and faster when you're using it but I'm other than that

00:31:42 ◼   ► and that that that's an issue and they should address it it is a really good

00:31:47 ◼   ► browser and it's one that that I like

00:31:50 ◼   ► and there are things in it that I miss and I have

00:31:51 ◼   ► not ruled out going back to it but you

00:31:54 ◼   ► know I think I think so much of Apple's

00:31:56 ◼   ► strategy right now is multi-device right

00:31:59 ◼   ► so you have things like Handoff and

00:32:01 ◼   ► Airdrop that are designed to go from

00:32:04 ◼   ► working on an iOS device to a Mac as

00:32:07 ◼   ► seamless as possible. You have iCloud you

00:32:09 ◼   ► know stitching all this stuff together

00:32:11 ◼   ► and Safari is a big part of that and in

00:32:14 ◼   ► a world where you can't change your

00:32:16 ◼   ► default browser, it's important that the

00:32:20 ◼   ► default one is good. And so I'm,

00:32:23 ◼   ► you know, I'm cautiously optimistic that this

00:32:26 ◼   ► means improvements are coming to Safari.

00:32:28 ◼   ► You know, with Google doing their own

00:32:30 ◼   ► thing in Chrome, you know, they are moving

00:32:33 ◼   ► away from the same branch of WebKit that

00:32:35 ◼   ► Apple uses, there's going to be some more

00:32:38 ◼   ► change coming in the browser market. And

00:32:40 ◼   ► I think it's imperative that Apple, that

00:32:43 ◼   ► any platform owner, has a really good

00:32:45 ◼   ► browser. You see Microsoft trying right now with Edge and I don't think they're

00:32:48 ◼   ► succeeding quite yet but the platform browser is an important thing. So I think

00:32:53 ◼   ► it's good that Apple is doing it. I think the timing is interesting being kind of

00:32:57 ◼   ► before WWDC. It kind of feels like this maybe is leading to something but

00:33:02 ◼   ► who knows. But all in all I'm glad it's around. Do you think that they might

00:33:09 ◼   ► consider doing something that is on iOS maybe using TestFlight at some point?

00:33:14 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean maybe, or maybe it becomes, you know, like there's like a Safari beta program,

00:33:21 ◼   ► right?

00:33:22 ◼   ► And maybe it's similar to the iOS public beta.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Yeah, like you install some sort of profile and then it gives you a special version of

00:33:29 ◼   ► Safari.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:33:31 ◼   ► I mean there are definitely things in the Safari technology preview that don't exist

00:33:35 ◼   ► elsewhere yet.

00:33:37 ◼   ► That's why I thought of it, right?

00:33:39 ◼   ► In theory it'd be good to test this stuff everywhere, especially with what it looks

00:33:42 ◼   ► like they may be trying to do is to get a bit of a larger data set because you

00:33:46 ◼   ► know you're gonna get people that download this and use it that don't

00:33:49 ◼   ► actually need it like you probably don't really need any of these things.

00:33:53 ◼   ► The thing about having the same beta on iOS is you would you have to to build

00:34:02 ◼   ► some sort of default browser setting because on the Mac you can say Safari is

00:34:06 ◼   ► my main browser but just I want to use technology preview side by side.

00:34:10 ◼   ► Let's hope that this is the start of that process.

00:34:13 ◼   ► On iOS you would have to go into some kind of setting screen and say, "Safari is my main

00:34:18 ◼   ► browser so all the links from messages and mail and other apps, I'll open those in Safari

00:34:22 ◼   ► but just let me test checkout GPU on iOS."

00:34:27 ◼   ► One can dream.

00:34:28 ◼   ► Yes, we can.

00:34:29 ◼   ► We can dream, Myke.

00:34:32 ◼   ► Talking about dreams.

00:34:33 ◼   ► Yeah, hopes, dreams, aspirations.

00:34:36 ◼   ► Steven, hold me.

00:34:37 ◼   ► I have a special secret topic which I have withheld from my co-hosts today.

00:34:42 ◼   ► Yes, I've written down what I believe it to be.

00:34:46 ◼   ► So we don't even know what it is.

00:34:48 ◼   ► No, you have no idea. Stephen's made a prediction and in like pure mind reader

00:34:52 ◼   ► like magician fashion he's written it down on a piece of paper and folded it up.

00:34:56 ◼   ► Okay.

00:34:57 ◼   ► And then we'll put a picture of that in the show notes so you can guess his guess.

00:35:01 ◼   ► So I went to the Apple Store today and bought the USB connector.

00:35:05 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And a 128GB 9.7" Gold iPad Pro with LTE and a Smart Keyboard.

00:35:11 ◼   ► Wait, what?

00:35:12 ◼   ► What?

00:35:13 ◼   ► What?

00:35:14 ◼   ► Which iPad Pro?

00:35:15 ◼   ► 9.7" Gold.

00:35:16 ◼   ► You bought it?

00:35:17 ◼   ► Why?

00:35:18 ◼   ► You already have an iPad Pro?

00:35:19 ◼   ► I know I do, yeah.

00:35:20 ◼   ► He's been CGP'd is what's happened.

00:35:21 ◼   ► This is partly it.

00:35:22 ◼   ► Alright, so on Cortex and Upgrade this week, I've been talking a lot about, you know,

00:35:26 ◼   ► the

00:35:26 ◼   ► He's been CGP'd, is what's happened.

00:35:30 ◼   ► This is partly it. Alright, so on Cortex and Upgrade this week,

00:35:34 ◼   ► I've been talking a lot about the iPad Pro, the small one.

00:35:38 ◼   ► And it was in my conversation with Gray, and stuff that we've been

00:35:42 ◼   ► talking about a lot over the last couple of months, that's been making me think about

00:35:46 ◼   ► trying this out. So something that Gray talks about and I talk about with him a bunch

00:35:50 ◼   ► is the idea of multiple screens, and this world where

00:35:54 ◼   ► you wouldn't use one iPad for everything. You might have like multiple iPads, right,

00:36:00 ◼   ► that you use for different tasks and you kind of use these screens like they are pieces of paper.

00:36:07 ◼   ► And I think that that concept is very interesting. But one that the thing,

00:36:12 ◼   ► you know the thing that's actually caught me the most, which I think is so funny,

00:36:15 ◼   ► is exactly the thing that I was laughing about with you before the iPad Pro came out. Remember

00:36:22 ◼   ► the big iPad and small iPad that I thought you were gonna have. That's what did this

00:36:28 ◼   ► to me. So what I was thinking about is, for many years I've had two Macs. I've had a desktop

00:36:34 ◼   ► Mac and a laptop. Like that's how I've worked for many years. So I have the big one for

00:36:42 ◼   ► home and the small one for moving around. So I want to try that out a little bit more

00:36:48 ◼   ► to have the big iPad, which I mainly use at home and for big work stuff, and then the

00:36:55 ◼   ► smaller iPad that I can use on the go, but also for different things like reading, checking

00:37:02 ◼   ► Twitter and stuff like that in the morning and in the evening, like the work that I do

00:37:05 ◼   ► at the start and the end of each day, which is a lot lighter and is mainly about consuming

00:37:09 ◼   ► stuff.

00:37:10 ◼   ► I think I find reading on the big iPad fine, but it is really big and maybe bigger than

00:37:16 ◼   ► I need. So I wanted to see what it was like to use the smaller one. It's why I've also

00:37:21 ◼   ► got LTE in this iPad, which is the first time I've ever done that. Because I want to have

00:37:28 ◼   ► this one on the go and on the move a little bit more. And I also bought a keyboard with

00:37:33 ◼   ► it because I think that for me, that's part of the whole package. So yeah, this is what

00:37:38 ◼   ► I did today. Now I am not set on keeping this. But I have it right now.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Okay, Myke. So I have many thoughts here. I wasn't expecting this to be the surprise topic.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I thought you bought the Amazon Echo, honestly.

00:37:54 ◼   ► That's even...

00:37:55 ◼   ► That's what I wrote down.

00:37:56 ◼   ► Haha!

00:37:57 ◼   ► No, on the Echo, I will get one, but I'm waiting until they launch internationally.

00:38:02 ◼   ► Okay. So, Michael. Help me understand here.

00:38:06 ◼   ► Yep.

00:38:07 ◼   ► So you want to use this iPad Pro as a more portable iPad Pro.

00:38:12 ◼   ► So I assume it's going to be dedicated to reading, catching up on articles on Twitter,

00:38:19 ◼   ► whereas the bigger iPad Pro goes for multitasking, you know, documents, that type of stuff that

00:38:26 ◼   ► requires a big screen.

00:38:28 ◼   ► Yes, so let's say for example, invoicing.

00:38:32 ◼   ► I send out invoices on a Friday.

00:38:34 ◼   ► To do that I use a combination of the FreshBooks app, Google Sheets, Chrome and Safari.

00:38:40 ◼   ► So I typically have Chrome and Safari side by side to check in our system and send out

00:38:43 ◼   ► the invoices and all that sort of stuff.

00:38:46 ◼   ► I wouldn't want to do that on the smaller iPad because I love the basically two portrait

00:38:51 ◼   ► apps side by side and multitasking on the 9.7 is cramped.

00:38:58 ◼   ► But it's usable but it's cramped but it would be really good for me to read something and

00:39:02 ◼   ► take notes in in the Apple Notes app.

00:39:04 ◼   ► So like the very simple work that I do, but I do also do more complex work that I like

00:39:10 ◼   ► to have the big screen for.

00:39:12 ◼   ► So I'm trying to work out if there is like a balance that can be struck between these

00:39:17 ◼   ► devices in the same way that I used to do things on the big Mac or like on the Mac Pro

00:39:24 ◼   ► or on the iMac or on my Mac Mini and then I would use my MacBook Pro in other scenarios

00:39:30 ◼   ► to do other types of work.

00:39:34 ◼   ► I also envision a time where, seriously, where I would use both of them at the same time

00:39:38 ◼   ► to do some tasks.

00:39:40 ◼   ► So like talking about the invoicing, something that I have to do is, you know, we were joking

00:39:44 ◼   ► about this last week, people got upset about using three apps at the same time, right?

00:39:48 ◼   ► Yes.

00:39:49 ◼   ► I could now do that more easily.

00:39:50 ◼   ► I could have the small iPad at the side and have that have Google Sheets open and then

00:39:56 ◼   ► use the larger iPad for the like, looking at the invoices and sending the invoices out.

00:40:02 ◼   ► I actually quite like that as an idea, as a thing that I could do, is to have both iPads

00:40:07 ◼   ► going at the same time and using them that way. People might think this sounds crazy, but like

00:40:12 ◼   ► think of the iPads as screens rather than devices and I think it becomes a little bit

00:40:18 ◼   ► better to understand. So many people use multiple screens in their offices, right? It's that really.

00:40:25 ◼   ► But it's like if you think about, if you're able to take yourself out of the idea of you can't do

00:40:30 ◼   ► work on the iPad and think about maybe imagine a world where you could do work on the iPad

00:40:36 ◼   ► like me and Federico do and then try and take the work that you currently do and the setup

00:40:40 ◼   ► and arrangement that you have and move that to those devices and I hope that it can start

00:40:44 ◼   ► to make a little bit more sense for people.

00:40:46 ◼   ► Because this is the thing that I'm going through a lot more is some of the things that I feel

00:40:51 ◼   ► like I'm missing from moving from the Mac to the iPad I can actually replicate by thinking

00:40:56 ◼   ► of the iPads more as screens as opposed to these discrete devices.

00:41:02 ◼   ► What I want to know, Myke, is the next time you're gonna travel, so let's say you go to

00:41:07 ◼   ► WWDC, which iPad are you gonna bring with you?

00:41:10 ◼   ► See, in theory, I would be bringing the smaller one with me.

00:41:15 ◼   ► That's the theory.

00:41:16 ◼   ► Why in theory?

00:41:17 ◼   ► Well, so let's say this WWDC, I will still be bringing my MacBook too, because I will

00:41:22 ◼   ► need to edit shows.

00:41:24 ◼   ► So in that scenario I would just bring the smaller one with me because it's mobile and

00:41:28 ◼   ► it's less weight and it's easier to carry.

00:41:31 ◼   ► But in the far flung future, if I'm maybe going to work somewhere for the day, I would

00:41:37 ◼   ► take the small iPad, but if I'm going away for two weeks I would take the big iPad and

00:41:41 ◼   ► that would be the only device that I would have.

00:41:43 ◼   ► I actually think that that will be within like a year or something that I'll finally

00:41:47 ◼   ► be able to transition a lot more of the editing stuff over to the iPad, but we can talk about

00:41:51 ◼   ► that over the next few months I think.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Do you imagine you would have to make adjustments to your desk, to your setup for multiple iPads?

00:42:00 ◼   ► From a physical standpoint, I'm trying to imagine how you're going to juggle two iPads.

00:42:04 ◼   ► I will.

00:42:05 ◼   ► Not right now, because I'm going to hopefully be changing this desk soon-ish, but I think

00:42:10 ◼   ► that there is a world... and somebody sent me a link to a product, which I haven't checked

00:42:15 ◼   ► out yet, but I'm planning on doing.

00:42:20 ◼   ► It's like this kind of, it's called the easel.

00:42:24 ◼   ► Now I'm not gonna--

00:42:25 ◼   ► - Oh, I have an easel.

00:42:26 ◼   ► - You have it?

00:42:27 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:28 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just received it yesterday.

00:42:29 ◼   ► - From Avila Design?

00:42:30 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:42:31 ◼   ► - They sent me a link and I haven't gotten back to them yet.

00:42:33 ◼   ► But this is the type of product that I would assume that would make this easier.

00:42:36 ◼   ► And that's why they emailed us, because they've heard the conversations of me and Gray thinking

00:42:42 ◼   ► about using these devices.

00:42:44 ◼   ► And you could put two iPads on one of these things.

00:42:48 ◼   ► So this is the type of thing I assume would make this type of stuff easier for me in the

00:42:52 ◼   ► future.

00:42:53 ◼   ► I really do see this becoming something that would work for me, this idea of using these

00:43:00 ◼   ► multiple devices, but I need to think about it.

00:43:04 ◼   ► The story so far in the chat room asked me, I think they say it's serious, it does sound

00:43:09 ◼   ► a bit funny, but do you think that you would start mounting iPads?

00:43:14 ◼   ► me and Adina got our own place I'm gonna put my old Air 2, I'm gonna mount it in

00:43:19 ◼   ► the kitchen because I think that that's a really good use for an old iPad.

00:43:24 ◼   ► Fix it to something in the kitchen. So we are gonna do that that's why I'm

00:43:28 ◼   ► keeping this around I haven't sold it yet because I want to keep it for that

00:43:31 ◼   ► reason. iPad butler. Yeah I know that this is a on the face of it a very crazy

00:43:37 ◼   ► idea but I encourage people to just try and take the iOS out of the equation and

00:43:45 ◼   ► think of the screens. That's the way that I think this works.

00:43:49 ◼   ► From that point of view it makes sense and I remember the the Cortex episode where when

00:43:54 ◼   ► Gray said it's sort of like Star Trek you see all of these screens on a desk

00:43:58 ◼   ► and it makes sense from that point of view. I'm trying to think would I ever

00:44:04 ◼   ► do something like this myself. The first concern would be price of course because

00:44:10 ◼   ► you know that's quite an expensive setup. Look, there's no way

00:44:15 ◼   ► to tiptoe around this. Like I just spent a thousand pounds today.

00:44:18 ◼   ► Yeah. Right? And that is ridiculous. Like I am fully aware of that fact and you

00:44:28 ◼   ► know there's nothing I can do about it. That's what it cost me. But I don't know

00:44:32 ◼   ► I haven't got anything to say about that. That's the truth. That's what happened today.

00:44:35 ◼   ► The other concern that I have is that maybe it would be annoying to manage the same apps on two

00:44:44 ◼   ► devices, like update all the apps. I know there's iCloud sync and other types of sync these days,

00:44:50 ◼   ► but it's just the overhead of managing two setups at the same time. It's already quite annoying to

00:44:57 ◼   ► keep all of my apps? I wonder, I'm thinking about this. So on this week's

00:45:02 ◼   ► Cortex, which you probably haven't heard yet, Gray talks about this and he

00:45:08 ◼   ► effectively, the way that he deals with it, which I don't know if I would but I'll

00:45:12 ◼   ► see, is he treats the devices purely on the things that they do so they don't

00:45:17 ◼   ► have the same apps on them because he has the iPad that he writes on, all it

00:45:21 ◼   ► has is writing apps, right? So that's the way that he deals with that. I don't

00:45:27 ◼   ► know if I will work that way. But yeah, that is something and I considered doing something

00:45:31 ◼   ► I've never done before, which is to turn on automatic app downloading on my iPads. I've

00:45:38 ◼   ► never used that feature before because it feels frustrating to me. But if I could just

00:45:43 ◼   ► turn it on those two devices, I'm more likely to want them to be in sync app wise than I've

00:45:49 ◼   ► ever wanted to have that feature before.

00:45:53 ◼   ► These are strange times, Myke, because when you said it, I'm like, "Okay, Myke is crazy."

00:46:00 ◼   ► But I do see the point, you know? Set aside the problem with the fact that it's expensive

00:46:10 ◼   ► and managing apps, but it does sort of make sense to have multiple screens. But what about,

00:46:18 ◼   ► Let me ask you, what if Apple comes out with a 15" iPad Pro?

00:46:24 ◼   ► I know that it sounds crazy, what if they come out with this really large iPad Pro that

00:46:30 ◼   ► lets you use 3-4 apps at the same time?

00:46:33 ◼   ► Would you reconsider?

00:46:36 ◼   ► In that regard, I would replace the 12" of that one.

00:46:40 ◼   ► Because if I work this way, if I end up achieving what I'm attempting to set out to do here,

00:46:46 ◼   ► iPad could be 25 inches because it's not gonna leave the home very often.

00:46:51 ◼   ► Like that's the theory here that I'm trying to get to is that if I do this the way that

00:46:56 ◼   ► I expect my 12 inch iPad Pro will not leave the house very often if at all and I will

00:47:03 ◼   ► be able to use the smaller iPad Pro for all of my travel needs.

00:47:08 ◼   ► That's the theory that I'm trying to test out here.

00:47:12 ◼   ► So what's next?

00:47:14 ◼   ► gonna try to see if this works out.

00:47:17 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't really know how it's gonna go and I don't really know how I'm gonna use

00:47:21 ◼   ► it.

00:47:22 ◼   ► You know, I did a deal with Adina on this and I will see, I will try and heavily use

00:47:28 ◼   ► this system over the next two weeks and decide if I will return the iPad Pro, the Baby Pro.

00:47:34 ◼   ► A quick point on that.

00:47:36 ◼   ► First time I heard the term Baby Pro was Serenity mentioned it on upgrade last week.

00:47:40 ◼   ► I'm so on board with that notion because this thing does feel like a baby version of the

00:47:45 ◼   ► iPad Pro. It's very peculiar because everything's smaller, right? And I know that sounds so

00:47:50 ◼   ► stupid but everything is smaller. So the keyboard, right? Everything's just tiny, you know, it's

00:47:55 ◼   ► like, ah, tiny little keys. I'll get back to the keyboard in a moment. But yeah, that's

00:48:02 ◼   ► the theory of where I'm going to try and take this is to see if I can just make it feel

00:48:07 ◼   ► like it's just the small iPad Pro and go from there.

00:48:11 ◼   ► So let me talk about some of my feelings of having the device for only a couple of hours.

00:48:16 ◼   ► Setting up a new device fixed in portrait orientation is insanity.

00:48:19 ◼   ► So these iPads still can only be set up in portrait.

00:48:25 ◼   ► So like I set it up, I put the keyboard on, turned it on and it was like, you can't do

00:48:29 ◼   ► this you crazy person, turn it the other way around.

00:48:33 ◼   ► The smaller software keyboard feels weird after using the big software keyboard.

00:48:38 ◼   ► Not having all of the numbers being very easily accessible is annoying.

00:48:42 ◼   ► But one of the funny things is, typing on those keys because they're larger and kind

00:48:46 ◼   ► of closer together is actually quite nice to type on after using the big one.

00:48:50 ◼   ► I think they had their merits, both of them, in all honesty.

00:48:53 ◼   ► The large software keyboard on the 12-inch iPad has everything all there.

00:48:59 ◼   ► but the smaller one, the key layout is actually a little bit more comfortable for me.

00:49:05 ◼   ► And having the split keyboard again is a big deal for me.

00:49:10 ◼   ► I've missed that thing.

00:49:12 ◼   ► But the majority of my typing will be with the keyboard cover.

00:49:16 ◼   ► And for someone who doesn't touch type, the size of the keys is not really a problem,

00:49:22 ◼   ► because I tend to be looking anyway and I adjusted to it very quickly when just typing

00:49:26 ◼   ► out even just things like passwords today.

00:49:28 ◼   ► I really don't like the tab key on this keyboard. It's like it barely exists. It's so small.

00:49:35 ◼   ► And if you use iOS with a keyboard now, the tab key is becoming increasingly important.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And so it's a shame that it's so ridiculously tiny on this keyboard. But I do like that

00:49:46 ◼   ► I have the keyboard on this thing and because I do really like the smart keyboard on my

00:49:50 ◼   ► big iPad. So I think it works here too. True tone makes a massive difference. Even in daylight,

00:49:57 ◼   ► like it really does make changes to the way the screen looks.

00:50:00 ◼   ► And you can turn it on and off when you're setting it up.

00:50:03 ◼   ► You can just hold the-- hold, like, turn off,

00:50:05 ◼   ► and it just instantly turns it off

00:50:07 ◼   ► to show you how the screen looks.

00:50:08 ◼   ► And it is like an extension to Night Shift in that way.

00:50:13 ◼   ► I'm feeling like I'm going to be enjoying this a lot

00:50:16 ◼   ► and then really missing it when I use the other iPad.

00:50:18 ◼   ► Because I was like holding my iPhone and the Baby Pro

00:50:22 ◼   ► next to each other, and I could really

00:50:24 ◼   ► see a difference in the way that the color was being produced in the whites.

00:50:30 ◼   ► So they're my feelings so far.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Yeah, this is all kind of strange right now.

00:50:37 ◼   ► Crazy right?

00:50:38 ◼   ► I told you it's a big surprise.

00:50:39 ◼   ► I'm pleased that neither of you guessed it though.

00:50:42 ◼   ► Yeah, honestly, you're going full CGP, I wasn't expecting that.

00:50:48 ◼   ► It's basically just been like, I recorded with Grey on Saturday, I recorded with Jason

00:50:52 ◼   ► on Monday and it's just been something I haven't been able to get out of my head.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And then the money came through from the upgrade t-shirts.

00:51:00 ◼   ► There it is.

00:51:01 ◼   ► I was like, "Okay, off we go to the App Store.

00:51:03 ◼   ► Thank you everyone that bought upgrade merchandise."

00:51:06 ◼   ► I mean, I've had the thought about having a mini in bed reading because the 12.9 inch

00:51:14 ◼   ► is just unusable if you're laying down.

00:51:17 ◼   ► But I see what you're saying about having the right tool for the job, and that's really

00:51:21 ◼   ► what this boils down to. Like no doubt there are people who are already writing

00:51:24 ◼   ► emails to us saying that you know this is ridiculous just use a Mac and and I

00:51:29 ◼   ► would tell you to stop writing that email but because what this is really

00:51:33 ◼   ► about is having the tools that you need to get your job done and just because

00:51:36 ◼   ► it's it's not what someone else would do or they quote can't understand it unquote.

00:51:41 ◼   ► I will reply to everybody verbally who's writing those emails and tell

00:51:46 ◼   ► them to switch to Windows because it's effectively you're asking me to do that.

00:51:51 ◼   ► it's the same thing to me. I know that's probably gonna upset all those people even more, but

00:51:57 ◼   ► what are you gonna do?

00:51:59 ◼   ► I mean, what do you think is nice?

00:52:00 ◼   ► It's interesting to me that you're now sort of in the position that I was about a year

00:52:05 ◼   ► ago.

00:52:06 ◼   ► Oh, I am you now, man. Like, in some ways I've now taken it in a completely new, creative

00:52:11 ◼   ► direction.

00:52:12 ◼   ► No, but you know, also the struggle to deal with people sending you comments.

00:52:17 ◼   ► I sympathize now. Why? Now I sympathize because it's happening.

00:52:22 ◼   ► Yes. Yeah, it's, you know, I don't know if I would ever do something like this, but it sounds crazy at first.

00:52:32 ◼   ► It's not so crazy when you imagine it as, you know, multiple displays, multiple screens.

00:52:39 ◼   ► It does make some sense to me right now.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I just wonder, is there going to be a day, maybe like a year from now, where all of your

00:52:48 ◼   ► recording and editing is done on two iPads?

00:52:51 ◼   ► Just because you have these two devices, these two iPad Pros, and you can do the recording,

00:52:56 ◼   ► you can do the editing, and you don't need a Mac anymore.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Which would be crazy for you.

00:53:02 ◼   ► Just because I sort of identify you and Steven as the type of users who need Macs and will

00:53:08 ◼   ► always need a desktop computer.

00:53:11 ◼   ► But it's just, you know, the possibility is intriguing, if you ask me.

00:53:15 ◼   ► I feel like I'm going to be using a Mac for recording and editing for a long time, even

00:53:24 ◼   ► after iOS gains the ability to do exactly what...

00:53:28 ◼   ► Let's say iOS gains the exact abilities that I need, right, to do everything that I currently

00:53:34 ◼   ► do on my Mac recording and editing wise, I still don't think that I would move immediately.

00:53:39 ◼   ► What it would give me is the ability to do all of that stuff on the road a lot easier.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I could be in different places and record in different places, but my workflows are

00:53:50 ◼   ► really built in on that and I'm not interested in changing them completely.

00:53:55 ◼   ► But I definitely see a time in the future where I am doing all of my work on iOS, but

00:54:00 ◼   ► I don't think it would be immediately from when those features are available, if that

00:54:06 ◼   ► makes sense.

00:54:07 ◼   ► And I think you were the same on that as well Federico, like you transitioned things away

00:54:12 ◼   ► from the Mac over time, even when the iOS devices could do the things that you needed

00:54:18 ◼   ► them to do, right?

00:54:20 ◼   ► Well, I do know that if it was possible to record on the iPad, and if you would allow

00:54:27 ◼   ► me to do so, I would ditch my Mac.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I wouldn't think twice about it.

00:54:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean now I totally get that.

00:54:37 ◼   ► But you know, you were doing things on like a Mac mini server and stuff for a longer period

00:54:41 ◼   ► of time.

00:54:42 ◼   ► And you know, I guess you were doing some other things on the Mac and then as features

00:54:47 ◼   ► were coming over you were slowly moving away.

00:54:49 ◼   ► But yeah, I see at this point, if with iOS 10 something happens and you can record on

00:54:56 ◼   ► iOS, like I just feel like now it's just a given that you would do that.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:01 ◼   ► I'm really interested to see how this goes, both in terms of your actual workflow and

00:55:07 ◼   ► in terms of how people respond to this topic.

00:55:10 ◼   ► Oh yeah, I can't wait.

00:55:12 ◼   ► I want to see what happens.

00:55:14 ◼   ► If you'll excuse me, I'm going to be changing the feedback email to something other than

00:55:19 ◼   ► that.

00:55:20 ◼   ► Yeah, good luck.

00:55:21 ◼   ► All right, let's take our second break and then we can get into some more planned topics.

00:55:27 ◼   ► Sounds good.

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00:57:05 ◼   ► So I thought we could revisit the topic of home automation a little bit.

00:57:10 ◼   ► And this was really brought on by a couple of news stories that I saw.

00:57:15 ◼   ► The first one being a note from Belkin, which make the Wemo product line, they make smart

00:57:22 ◼   ► switches, outlets, lights, all sorts of stuff.

00:57:26 ◼   ► basically saying that HomeKit is not really going as well as they thought it

00:57:34 ◼   ► would and that they are putting HomeKit compatibility on hold for now. It was

00:57:40 ◼   ► interesting to me and maybe I just missed this or maybe because Apple has

00:57:44 ◼   ► said basically nothing about HomeKit no one knew but HomeKit requires specific

00:57:50 ◼   ► hardware like a hardware controller in the device and it is impossible if you

00:57:57 ◼   ► smell if you sell some sort of if you smell if you sell some sort of smart

00:58:03 ◼   ► home device you can't just have like a firmware update and make it compatible

00:58:06 ◼   ► with home kit you have to actually have a physical thing and so you see that in

00:58:11 ◼   ► the hue lights right they had regular hue lights and they updated the bridge

00:58:15 ◼   ► and that bridge contains I guess the homekit whatever chipset that is that

00:58:21 ◼   ► is needed and I think it's a pretty big deal you know we know is a big name in

00:58:24 ◼   ► this field and they're basically saying that homekit is something they're

00:58:29 ◼   ► putting on hold until it can work for both new and existing users so the

00:58:34 ◼   ► subtext there is there they want Apple to change this and be able to have it

00:58:38 ◼   ► just in software, just in firmware. And I think it goes to the bigger, you know, the

00:58:45 ◼   ► bigger idea of all this home automation stuff is really a mess still, and that it's really

00:58:51 ◼   ► unsolved. And real quickly, the chat room suggests, probably rightfully so, that this

00:58:56 ◼   ► is perhaps a security issue, that Apple wants to have some sort of trusted device, some

00:59:01 ◼   ► trusted identifier in all these devices. And I could totally see that being the case. But,

00:59:06 ◼   ► So I want to check in with you guys. Is HomeKit something that you guys are using or have

00:59:15 ◼   ► you, like me, replaced it with something else?

00:59:19 ◼   ► I have no HomeKit devices. We speak about this stuff a lot on the show and it's something

00:59:25 ◼   ► that I'm interested in setting up soon, hopefully not too far in the future. But this is concerning

00:59:32 ◼   ► me because this is kind of a real, it's a real kind of example of why the standards

00:59:42 ◼   ► and all of the stuff that exists in the home automation space are a bit wonky right now.

00:59:48 ◼   ► And it's concerning because I see it as like another symptom or another issue which ends

00:59:53 ◼   ► up with you having to replace all of the home devices that you have with something else

00:59:58 ◼   ► because something doesn't work with something, or somebody drops support for something, and

01:00:02 ◼   ► then you're back out buying hundreds of dollars worth of devices again.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Yeah, what about you Federico?

01:00:12 ◼   ► I own two different HomeKit devices.

01:00:17 ◼   ► So the first one, which is actually two sensors from Elgato, the humidity sensor and an outside

01:00:24 ◼   ► temperature sensor.

01:00:26 ◼   ► And then I own the Philips Hue lights with the new bridge with HomeKit support.

01:00:32 ◼   ► But I'll tell you, ever since I bought the Echo, I've never ever used Siri or, you know,

01:00:41 ◼   ► other HomeKit apps again to control my lights, because it's just so easier and so faster

01:00:48 ◼   ► and so much more reliable to ask Alexa to turn on the lights or to...

01:00:56 ◼   ► All of these devices, they support their own standards for home automation as well.

01:01:01 ◼   ► So you can connect the Echo to the Wemo, you can connect the Echo to the Hue lights, and

01:01:08 ◼   ► it's just faster for me.

01:01:09 ◼   ► And in my experience, either Siri doesn't know what to do or it doesn't understand my

01:01:14 ◼   ► commands or it's just slow and for some reason it stops responding. Let's avoid

01:01:20 ◼   ► talking about the Apple Watch because it's crazy slow and I don't even want to

01:01:23 ◼   ► bring it up. I guess I did, I'm sorry. I just used the Echo. It's much

01:01:29 ◼   ► faster and easier and again I'm sort of sad that this is the case. I had

01:01:41 ◼   ► big hopes for HomeKit, but if you couple the inconsistencies and the technical problems

01:01:47 ◼   ► with the strange availability of HomeKit devices in Italy, like I don't know where to look

01:01:54 ◼   ► for HomeKit devices.

01:01:55 ◼   ► I go to Amazon Italy and every once in a while there's a new device that supports HomeKit.

01:02:02 ◼   ► It's all very fragmented and instead with the Echo I can just log into my accounts and

01:02:09 ◼   ► it just works and maybe that's what I wanted Honkit to do.

01:02:13 ◼   ► So, you know, I have these two sensors and I use them,

01:02:18 ◼   ► but my lights and my Wemo switch,

01:02:22 ◼   ► which is of course connected to my espresso maker,

01:02:27 ◼   ► those are the two that I use the most.

01:02:29 ◼   ► And it's just nice to be able to say,

01:02:30 ◼   ► Alexa, turn on the coffee maker.

01:02:32 ◼   ► You know, it's just awesome.

01:02:33 ◼   ► And it's distant.

01:02:34 ◼   ► It really works in less than a second,

01:02:36 ◼   ► which is damn impressive.

01:02:38 ◼   ► So I'm a big Echo fan right now.

01:02:41 ◼   ► - If I were to come with you,

01:02:42 ◼   ► the Echo has basically replaced Siri for my use.

01:02:47 ◼   ► And all I, now to be fair,

01:02:48 ◼   ► all I have are a set of Hue lights

01:02:50 ◼   ► that I don't have anything else,

01:02:52 ◼   ► really smart home stuff.

01:02:53 ◼   ► I do have two Nest products,

01:02:55 ◼   ► but as far as things that could work with HomeKit,

01:02:57 ◼   ► all I have are the Hue lights.

01:03:00 ◼   ► And for me, it's just the flexibility of it.

01:03:05 ◼   ► So if I walk in,

01:03:06 ◼   ► can just shout at the echo to turn the lights on where with the the watch or

01:03:11 ◼   ► even the phone you know I gotta I gotta find it I gotta push a button and it

01:03:15 ◼   ► seems to be more more reliable so you know the downside of all this mic like

01:03:23 ◼   ► you said is that you can get in a situation where your stuff stops working

01:03:27 ◼   ► or you know you have to replace something that you bought six months ago

01:03:31 ◼   ► and that's sort of part of a one-two punch that's been leveled at Nest this

01:03:37 ◼   ► week. So the the first bit of this is a product that they, the Nest purchase,

01:03:44 ◼   ► called the Revolve, which is a kind of like a smart home hub. It controls lights and

01:03:53 ◼   ► they bought this company and they are not only sunsetting the hub, they actually

01:03:59 ◼   ► stopped selling it back in 2014, but on May 15th the service that runs it is

01:04:04 ◼   ► going to be be turned off and so the hub straight up like won't work and so they

01:04:12 ◼   ► are making a deliberate decision to break something that people were buying

01:04:15 ◼   ► as recently as you know October 2014 and that's problematic for a bunch of

01:04:21 ◼   ► reasons but I think for our conversation today the it goes to this this idea that

01:04:27 ◼   ► that this is a very fluid market right now.

01:04:29 ◼   ► Just because you bought something doesn't mean that it's going to work forever.

01:04:34 ◼   ► But it's a problem in particular with Nest because there's a lot of conversation right

01:04:38 ◼   ► now with some links in the show notes that Nest is sort of spiraling out of control.

01:04:43 ◼   ► There's been stories about Tony Fidell's leadership style and that he's maybe not completely in

01:04:53 ◼   ► control of things that are happening at

01:04:54 ◼   ► Nest and that the company has

01:04:57 ◼   ► not had new products, right? They

01:04:59 ◼   ► bought Dropcam and have re-released it as

01:05:02 ◼   ► the Nest Cam and I actually have one that

01:05:03 ◼   ► I'm kind of playing with right now for a

01:05:05 ◼   ► project and it's fine, it's

01:05:08 ◼   ► nice enough but I have this thought in the

01:05:10 ◼   ► back of my mind like what if this goes

01:05:12 ◼   ► away? You know, the Nest Cam uploads all of its

01:05:14 ◼   ► stuff to a service and you can go

01:05:15 ◼   ► download video and get push notifications,

01:05:17 ◼   ► all that stuff, but all that requires

01:05:19 ◼   ► Nest to still be in business and even

01:05:22 ◼   ► Even though they're part of Alphabet, that's no guarantee.

01:05:24 ◼   ► At some point in Alphabet it's going to stop pouring money into Nest, right?

01:05:29 ◼   ► What happens if my thermostat was working?

01:05:32 ◼   ► I'm very, all of a sudden, very cautious about the Nest products that I have, to the degree

01:05:39 ◼   ► that we're thinking about moving.

01:05:41 ◼   ► If we do, I'm not positive I would put the Nest thermostat up in the new house.

01:05:46 ◼   ► I really like my Nest thermostat that I have now, but I'm not sold that I would keep it

01:05:50 ◼   ► long-term.

01:05:51 ◼   ► until it's proven that they can do this long term.

01:05:54 ◼   ► And the revolve thing is problematic,

01:05:57 ◼   ► the leadership stuff's problematic,

01:05:58 ◼   ► there's a Reddit thread that we'll have a link to

01:06:02 ◼   ► that basically take it with a grain of salt,

01:06:05 ◼   ► but someone says they're an engineer at Reddit

01:06:06 ◼   ► and like lists all these terrible things that are happening,

01:06:08 ◼   ► or an engineer at Nest, sorry.

01:06:10 ◼   ► So I don't know, like it's, you know,

01:06:13 ◼   ► there's this idea that Apple could come in

01:06:15 ◼   ► and like unify all this stuff and provide a backend, right,

01:06:20 ◼   ► so that all these various companies,

01:06:22 ◼   ► so Philips and Nest and these different companies

01:06:26 ◼   ► would not have to provide these services,

01:06:28 ◼   ► that HomeKit could become the glue between all this stuff,

01:06:31 ◼   ► but that just hasn't happened.

01:06:32 ◼   ► And in the wake of that,

01:06:36 ◼   ► all of these little independent systems

01:06:38 ◼   ► that kind of don't work together now very well

01:06:42 ◼   ► are continuing to break down.

01:06:43 ◼   ► And what it leads me to think is like,

01:06:45 ◼   ► is this is not the moment,

01:06:48 ◼   ► this is not the time for smart home stuff,

01:06:50 ◼   ► was do we have some of these products

01:06:52 ◼   ► and it's just gonna fizzle away

01:06:54 ◼   ► because there's no standard?

01:06:56 ◼   ► Or is this just part of a natural evolution

01:06:59 ◼   ► towards something that will be better?

01:07:01 ◼   ► I don't know the answer.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - This is why, this whole problem is exactly why

01:07:08 ◼   ► it would be good for,

01:07:10 ◼   ► this is exactly why it would be good

01:07:15 ◼   ► for HomeKit to exist, right?

01:07:17 ◼   ► Because if there was a centralized standard that lots of people could use, it would be

01:07:21 ◼   ► less concerning that a company shutting down is going to stop your lightbulbs from working.

01:07:26 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:07:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:07:28 ◼   ► I mean, I mean, exactly.

01:07:32 ◼   ► It's a mess.

01:07:35 ◼   ► And I, for one, am holding off.

01:07:36 ◼   ► Like, I'm not going to be going any further into this world until it settles down a little

01:07:40 ◼   ► bit.

01:07:41 ◼   ► Yeah, me neither.

01:07:42 ◼   ► I was thinking about, should I get more home elevation devices?

01:07:44 ◼   ► after seeing the struggles of HomeKit and the news about the nest, I'd also couple

01:07:50 ◼   ► that with the fact that I still don't own a house, still paying rent. I cannot make

01:07:56 ◼   ► major modifications, I cannot change the door locks for example. I think I'm on hold right

01:08:03 ◼   ► now. I got the lights, I got the WEMO switch, I'm probably just gonna buy another WEMO switch

01:08:08 ◼   ► just for convenience, but that's about it. I'm not going crazy with door locks or more

01:08:14 ◼   ► lights or you know the thermostat or you know ceiling fans that kind of stuff I'm

01:08:20 ◼   ► just gonna wait and see and probably by the time that I would buy a house you

01:08:25 ◼   ► know myself I will I will reconsider we'll see. It's kind of it's kind of

01:08:33 ◼   ► depressing right like I think we were kind of sold on this idea that if you go

01:08:37 ◼   ► get a couple things your house can be like not only smarter but safer more

01:08:42 ◼   ► efficient and it feels like that promise has been broken a little bit.

01:08:46 ◼   ► I'm just kind of down on the whole thing right now.

01:08:48 ◼   ► The products are all good and they work, but it's a shame that the underpinning services

01:08:56 ◼   ► are probably the issue, right?

01:08:58 ◼   ► That's the worry.

01:08:59 ◼   ► Like, Belkin sets up a service, and Apple sets up a service, and Google sets up a service

01:09:04 ◼   ► with Nest, and then Android there's one, and then it just goes round and round and round.

01:09:09 ◼   ► It just concerns me, I would really like there to be just something that is either open or

01:09:15 ◼   ► is held by a big enough company that it's all good.

01:09:19 ◼   ► Let's say that Google decides that they want to create some open standard that everybody

01:09:23 ◼   ► can adopt.

01:09:24 ◼   ► I would be as happy with that as if Apple did it.

01:09:26 ◼   ► I just like the idea of there being one company and everybody gets on board with it and we

01:09:31 ◼   ► all hope that would be HomeKit but maybe Apple's taken the eye off the ball with HomeKit a

01:09:36 ◼   ► little bit.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And you know, let's hope that that's not the case going forward.

01:09:42 ◼   ► So to close out this week, I wanted to talk a little bit about the iMac, which maybe feels

01:09:48 ◼   ► a little weird after Myke's revelation earlier in the show.

01:09:51 ◼   ► I'm still using my iMac right now.

01:09:53 ◼   ► It's sitting right here in front of me.

01:09:55 ◼   ► So I need to do it this week before time goes on, it becomes less relevant.

01:09:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:09:59 ◼   ► So we got this email from Bastian who talks about the conversation we've had about the

01:10:08 ◼   ► fusion drive and the hard drive and the iMac, blah blah blah.

01:10:11 ◼   ► Anyways, this is what he says.

01:10:14 ◼   ► If the iMac could do all SSD and basically if Skylake and the new integrated graphics

01:10:20 ◼   ► would come with that, would that allow Apple to reduce the bezels and get rid of the hump

01:10:25 ◼   ► and the chin on the iMac?

01:10:27 ◼   ► I would love to see a 24 inch screen size

01:10:29 ◼   ► in the dimensions of the 21 inch iMac.

01:10:32 ◼   ► So the idea that if you look at the front of an iMac,

01:10:35 ◼   ► there's still, I mean you've got one in front of you Myke,

01:10:37 ◼   ► like the bezel's at least as wide as your thumb

01:10:39 ◼   ► around the screen, and there's a chin,

01:10:42 ◼   ► and of course it's really thin at the edges,

01:10:44 ◼   ► and that keynote is so hilarious to me

01:10:47 ◼   ► that like, Phil's just like, look it's so thin,

01:10:49 ◼   ► and then he turns and it's like, well it's the same thing,

01:10:51 ◼   ► and it's in the back, it's just,

01:10:52 ◼   ► it's sort of all kind of lumped together,

01:10:54 ◼   ► it's kind of lumpy in the back.

01:10:56 ◼   ► And at the time, listeners remembered that I was quite upset

01:11:01 ◼   ► that who cares how thin the iMac is

01:11:04 ◼   ► if you get rid of the RAM door.

01:11:07 ◼   ► Like if that's your trade-off,

01:11:09 ◼   ► then you've made the wrong trade-off, right?

01:11:10 ◼   ► It's a desktop computer, like who cares?

01:11:13 ◼   ► Thickness is not an issue on the desktop,

01:11:15 ◼   ► weight's not an issue on the desktop.

01:11:17 ◼   ► But I do think that this is an interesting point

01:11:20 ◼   ► that the iMac form factor has been the same for a long time,

01:11:25 ◼   ► Really, before Retina, they've had this thin,

01:11:28 ◼   ► at the edges design.

01:11:29 ◼   ► And could Skylake, could something else change that?

01:11:34 ◼   ► And so, Myke, you're the only one of us

01:11:35 ◼   ► that owns an iMac as much as I want one.

01:11:39 ◼   ► Well, you're the one that has a modern iMac.

01:11:41 ◼   ► I have lots of old ones.

01:11:42 ◼   ► But you've run an iMac, you use it to do your work on.

01:11:46 ◼   ► And does, like, do you think about this?

01:11:49 ◼   ► Like, does it bother you?

01:11:51 ◼   ► Are there things that bother you about

01:11:52 ◼   ► the current iMac design that you would like changed?

01:11:55 ◼   ► Talking about the form factor, it's quite funny.

01:11:57 ◼   ► The iMac has looked like this, just made out of different materials since I bought my first

01:12:01 ◼   ► iMac in 2005.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

01:12:05 ◼   ► Like a foot with a chin and a bezel.

01:12:08 ◼   ► You know, like I had the white plastic first Intel one.

01:12:11 ◼   ► It's been the same since before then even, like the iMac G5 in like 2003.

01:12:15 ◼   ► Yeah exactly.

01:12:16 ◼   ► So, you know, but it's a good looking machine, but you know, I agree right, with Bastion,

01:12:22 ◼   ► of course I would love this thing to just be the screen because that would be awesome,

01:12:26 ◼   ► right? Like if you're gonna do stuff like make it super thin and then you're gonna,

01:12:32 ◼   ► as you say, which really upsets you, seal the RAM into it, you might as well just take

01:12:36 ◼   ► it to its logical conclusion. Otherwise make the thing more expandable again. Like I would

01:12:43 ◼   ► like to see that happen. I mean obviously they can't do that, which is why they haven't

01:12:46 ◼   ► done that because it would be awesome if they did that, if it was just looked like the Thunderbolt

01:12:51 ◼   ► displays that would be awesome and I think we're gonna get there one day I

01:12:55 ◼   ► think that's probably the next design for the iMac they'll just keep doing

01:12:59 ◼   ► this until they can get rid of all of the outside of it they'll just keep it

01:13:04 ◼   ► looking as it is because it's a real kind of unassuming design it looks fine

01:13:09 ◼   ► as it is in regards to my iMac in general the things that I would love to

01:13:15 ◼   ► see change about it is I would love there to be more I/O and I would love

01:13:19 ◼   ► for it to be easier to access. I know why it is what it is, but trying to plug a USB

01:13:26 ◼   ► cable into the back of my iMac, it's just scratch, scratch, scratch, scratch. Oh, there

01:13:30 ◼   ► it is. And the feeling of scratching a USB cable against anodized aluminum makes me want

01:13:37 ◼   ► to jump out of my window.

01:13:39 ◼   ► It's not good at all.

01:13:40 ◼   ► I hate it so much. It's like, I just, yeah, I can't, I can't deal with it. Um, you know,

01:13:46 ◼   ► And I, like most people, I'm sure that use a desktop Mac, I have a USB hub because there's

01:13:52 ◼   ► just not enough USB cables, like connectors, there's just not enough.

01:13:58 ◼   ► I know that putting them on the front is real ugly, but it was really, it was a lot easier,

01:14:05 ◼   ► it would be I think a lot easier if these things were on the side or on the bottom,

01:14:08 ◼   ► but that would mean it'd have to be thicker again, which is never gonna happen.

01:14:13 ◼   ► It would maybe be nice if there was some way to put them in the foot.

01:14:16 ◼   ► I don't know, who knows, but I would love to see something a little bit different about

01:14:19 ◼   ► the way that the IO is put in there.

01:14:22 ◼   ► Aside from that, the machine itself, performance wise, I have no complaints.

01:14:29 ◼   ► I can't do anything to this Mac to make it feel like it's going slowly.

01:14:34 ◼   ► It just deals with everything, except one thing, which is gaming.

01:14:39 ◼   ► I would like the Mac to be better at gaming and I'm looking at Oculus, right?

01:14:44 ◼   ► I bought this Mac, I think it cost like three grand and it's still not powerful enough to

01:14:50 ◼   ► run an Oculus Rift.

01:14:51 ◼   ► It's a great discussion about this on ATP.

01:14:55 ◼   ► You know, I want to be able to plug a VR headset into this Mac.

01:15:00 ◼   ► It is the only computer that I own, desktop wise.

01:15:03 ◼   ► It's as powerful as I could make it, but it's still not enough.

01:15:08 ◼   ► And that's I think my biggest complaint along with many other people right now about my

01:15:12 ◼   ► iMac is that there's nothing I can do to make it powerful enough to run an Oculus Rift.

01:15:20 ◼   ► And I can buy an Oculus Rift machine for half of the price that it costs me to buy this

01:15:26 ◼   ► Mac.

01:15:27 ◼   ► And I know that there's many other things that I'm buying and I'm happy that I bought

01:15:30 ◼   ► them and given the choice I would still go with the iMac.

01:15:35 ◼   ► But it would be really nice if it could have the graphics processes needed to run on Oculus.

01:15:42 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think that's one of those trade-offs they make with that design, right?

01:15:50 ◼   ► With the way they put the iMac together, there's just not room for a graphics card to drive

01:15:57 ◼   ► that sort of thing.

01:15:58 ◼   ► And it's just not a priority, right?

01:16:01 ◼   ► That's the bigger thing, right?

01:16:02 ◼   ► The design is what it is because it was not a priority.

01:16:04 ◼   ► And for a long time the iMacs were basically notebooks with sort of rearranged notebook

01:16:10 ◼   ► parts that's less true now than it used to be.

01:16:15 ◼   ► But no doubt that there are things about that machine that are decisions made by Apple that

01:16:20 ◼   ► it just is what it is, right?

01:16:23 ◼   ► And I think part of it is honestly that the iMac has a very wide spread.

01:16:28 ◼   ► So you can buy that 21 inch non-retina machine with a slow cruddy laptop hard drive in it,

01:16:36 ◼   ► actually set one up for somebody, it's not good.

01:16:40 ◼   ► Or you can go buy what you bought, right?

01:16:41 ◼   ► A loaded 27 inch retina monster that you can do final cut and logic on and do all this

01:16:47 ◼   ► stuff and it never breaks a sweat.

01:16:50 ◼   ► The gamut for that Mac is just so big now that the Mac Mini and the Mac Pro have been

01:16:56 ◼   ► really pushed to the edges and that wasn't true when they introduced the iMac

01:17:00 ◼   ► you know that the four that I have in my trunk they were consumer machines and if

01:17:05 ◼   ► you needed more power then you went and bought a power Mac and today the that

01:17:10 ◼   ► that 2x2 grid of course is gone and the iMac is both a consumer machine and a

01:17:16 ◼   ► professional machine and the Mac Pro has become marginalized to people who either

01:17:21 ◼   ► need just crazy GPU power or they need the Xeon's and for everyone else the iMac

01:17:28 ◼   ► is plenty of machine and you know Myke somebody if when we started we bought a

01:17:34 ◼   ► Mac Pro for you and it ended up being a poor choice because well the machine was

01:17:40 ◼   ► had hardware issues but also it like you didn't need it like it was overkill the

01:17:44 ◼   ► iMac is a better fit for you and same for me doing audio and video stuff like

01:17:49 ◼   ► I don't need an iMac.

01:17:50 ◼   ► 10 years ago I would have needed a Power Mac,

01:17:52 ◼   ► but today the iMac just can do so much.

01:17:57 ◼   ► But even today, like you said,

01:17:59 ◼   ► they leave things on the table.

01:18:00 ◼   ► They leave gaming on the table.

01:18:01 ◼   ► They leave expansion on the table.

01:18:03 ◼   ► They leave the ability to upgrade it later on the table.

01:18:08 ◼   ► Until this new design, you could put RAM in all of them.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Now you have to have the 27.

01:18:14 ◼   ► So I don't know who the iMac is for anymore

01:18:18 ◼   ► because it's for everybody and I think it's it's not as laser focused as it

01:18:25 ◼   ► once was that this is a consumer machine and and that's fine but I think I think

01:18:30 ◼   ► Apple needs to give people options and and the answer is if you want a gaming

01:18:35 ◼   ► machine buy a Mac Pro but the Mac Pro is three years old and has not aged well

01:18:42 ◼   ► and I would say it's almost to the point where it was before this one showed up

01:18:47 ◼   ► of being sort of humorous that it's still for sale and that no one should seriously

01:18:52 ◼   ► consider it because it's so outdated.

01:18:55 ◼   ► And you know what, if Apple wants to have a machine that can run an Oculus, it should

01:18:59 ◼   ► be the Mac Pro and it should be updated on a regular basis and it shouldn't, you know,

01:19:04 ◼   ► burn to the ground because it has two GPUs in it.

01:19:07 ◼   ► They've got to fix that.

01:19:08 ◼   ► And so I thought it was a fascinating little mini topic of what the iMac could do, not

01:19:13 ◼   ► Not only from a design perspective, but from a sort of performance and like where it fits in type thing.

01:19:18 ◼   ► So I mean, I'll just buy a 12 iPad and just glue them together in here. I mean you could do that

01:19:25 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know who would I might at some point you might or you could be Federico and just leave all this behind and

01:19:32 ◼   ► Live in a brighter happier future. Yep, and just use a MacBook Air held together the tape when you need it. So

01:19:38 ◼   ► No, just use a PlayStation, you know, yep

01:19:42 ◼   ► Just before we wrap up today I wanted to provide a little bit of follow up on my iPad which

01:19:48 ◼   ► I forgot to mention earlier. I wanted to just talk about gold for a moment.

01:19:55 ◼   ► Gold?

01:19:56 ◼   ► Because I bought a gold one.

01:19:57 ◼   ► Uh huh. I have a gold iPhone.

01:20:00 ◼   ► Yeah I know. So this is part of it. One, I'm thinking about buying a gold iPhone so I wanted

01:20:05 ◼   ► to see what it was like to have a gold iOS device. I do actually really like the gold

01:20:10 ◼   ► I was tempted by rose gold because I keep seeing the rose gold SE everywhere and like

01:20:16 ◼   ► I think it's tricking my brain into thinking that's the color I want but I decided not

01:20:20 ◼   ► to do that.

01:20:21 ◼   ► I have a story about that real quick.

01:20:22 ◼   ► Okay.

01:20:23 ◼   ► Mary's 6S which she just traded for an SE is rose gold.

01:20:27 ◼   ► As I was looking at it last night and for a second I thought maybe I put my sim in this

01:20:30 ◼   ► for a couple weeks and like re-equate myself with this size and for me like the rose gold

01:20:36 ◼   ► just isn't my first choice. But it is funny, I definitely have thought about it and still

01:20:42 ◼   ► may do it. But it's nice to have options. Anyways, you bought a gold iPad!

01:20:47 ◼   ► Yeah, so there's two reasons why aside from that, the idea that I just wanted to see what

01:20:53 ◼   ► the gold was like. One, I wanted to, I know that these devices are vastly different in

01:20:58 ◼   ► size, but I just wanted a visual cue to know which one is which. So I have a white and

01:21:05 ◼   ► gold one and I have a black and gray one. Like I just wanted there to be a visual

01:21:10 ◼   ► cue of easily distinct thing just by out of the corner of my eye which iPad is

01:21:16 ◼   ► which. The other is the gold doesn't matter because I'm gonna cover it in

01:21:21 ◼   ► stickers if I keep it so hey ho. If you think it's crazy that I have gold just assume that it

01:21:27 ◼   ► won't be gold forever. The only way you can tell is the ring around the Touch ID

01:21:31 ◼   ► sensor and I love that being a different color yeah that looks nice that looks

01:21:36 ◼   ► nice that that looks nice in gold and rose gold honestly mm-hmm I might go

01:21:41 ◼   ► rose gold at the iPhone because I'll put a case on it always so I might go rose

01:21:45 ◼   ► gold I'm just upset that you can buy many colors of smart cover and I'm still

01:21:50 ◼   ► you know the rest of us with the 12.9 are stuck with gray didn't buy a smart

01:21:54 ◼   ► cover because they're ludicrously priced and I have the like 50 pounds or $50 or

01:22:00 ◼   ► whatever and you can't use the old ones because they've changed the magnet polarity which

01:22:04 ◼   ► is...

01:22:05 ◼   ► I think you're gonna have a good reason for that Apple otherwise you're just being mean.

01:22:13 ◼   ► Yep.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Magnets work differently now.

01:22:15 ◼   ► So there you go.

01:22:16 ◼   ► Alright that wraps it up.

01:22:17 ◼   ► If you want to find the shoutouts for this week head on over to relay.fm/connected/85

01:22:22 ◼   ► if you would like to find Federico online he's over at maxstories.net.

01:22:26 ◼   ► Steven is at 512pixels.net they are both on Twitter.

01:22:29 ◼   ► Steven is @ismh, Federico is @vitiici, and I am @imike, thank you to Squarespace and

01:22:38 ◼   ► Braintree for sponsoring this week's episode, but most of all, thank you for listening.

01:22:43 ◼   ► We'll be back next time, until then, say goodbye gentlemen.

01:22:46 ◼   ► Adios.

01:22:47 ◼   ► Adios.