Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:05 ◼   ► From Real AFM this is Connected episode number 86. Today's show is brought to you by Memories and

00:00:12 ◼   ► Arc. My name is Myke Hurley. I'm joined by Mr Stephen Hackett and Mr Federico Fattici.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Good afternoon gentlemen. Hey! What's up? How are we all today? I'm- I'm uh currently on the upswing

00:00:28 ◼   ► of a caffeine rush so...

00:00:30 ◼   ► Oh you call that caffeine? Come on.

00:00:33 ◼   ► What? Come on then, give it to me, come on.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Alright, I made myself an ice latte using an AeroPress.

00:00:38 ◼   ► I'm gonna put a picture in the show notes of the setup that I had going on.

00:00:41 ◼   ► You see, all those words are unnecessary.

00:00:43 ◼   ► You should have just made coffee.

00:00:45 ◼   ► Not an ice latte with... what does it even mean?

00:00:48 ◼   ► Well what is coffee to you then? You just straight from the source espresso.

00:00:51 ◼   ► An espresso. Yes.

00:00:52 ◼   ► Right, so you're having an espresso aren't you? It's a different thing.

00:00:55 ◼   ► You use too many words for a beverage, Myke.

00:01:00 ◼   ► This is like, so later we're going to talk about pizza, right?

00:01:03 ◼   ► And in the pizza scenario, lots of people agree with you, right?

00:01:09 ◼   ► And they're like, "Pineapple is crazy" and all that stuff.

00:01:14 ◼   ► But I feel like, you know, you can't go around dissing the Aeropress, I'm afraid.

00:01:18 ◼   ► You're going to get nerd rage.

00:01:19 ◼   ► No, I know, I know, I know.

00:01:21 ◼   ► I feel like I have a very strong team of fellow Italians who are very much in line with my

00:01:33 ◼   ► thinking.

00:01:34 ◼   ► So my country is behind me, Myke.

00:01:37 ◼   ► I don't doubt that at all.

00:01:39 ◼   ► That sounds vaguely threatening, Federico.

00:01:43 ◼   ► There are many people, wink wink, in Italy, wink wink, who won't be happy with what

00:01:48 ◼   ► you've just said.

00:01:49 ◼   ► You better... It's nice coffee you got there. It'd be a shame if you lost it.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Okay, I just don't know how we turned into the podcast about pizzas and coffee, but I like it.

00:02:03 ◼   ► You know, I like it. So, sounds good to me. We'll see what it takes us.

00:02:08 ◼   ► That is how it goes. But before we get to pizza, we do have some of a follow-up to address.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Yes, we do and as Keeper the follow-up I will guide us through it whatever may come our way.

00:02:20 ◼   ► We spoke about the iMac last week, actually I spoke about the iMac last week because

00:02:24 ◼   ► uh I threw some thoughts in. You threw some in. Federico just went and got a cup of coffee.

00:02:30 ◼   ► But uh so yeah so talking about the iMac and we had some interesting follow-up about the name

00:02:38 ◼   ► and basically this email sort of outlined a world in which Apple would

00:02:43 ◼   ► unify their naming so it could be they would drop the "i" basically so it would be Mac,

00:02:47 ◼   ► Mac Mini, Mac Pro, Macbook, blah blah blah blah.

00:02:51 ◼   ► My feeling of this is that I like the symmetry and

00:02:56 ◼   ► I could see a world where Apple would like the symmetry but iMac has been a

00:03:02 ◼   ► brand since 1998 and I really think that you know it back in like the early 2000s

00:03:11 ◼   ► the eye prefix really stuck out more right you had the iBook you had iLife it

00:03:16 ◼   ► was it was sort of more of a meme and now at least the way I look at it is I

00:03:20 ◼   ► look at the word iMac is just one word I don't I don't really view the i as a

00:03:24 ◼   ► prefix to anything anymore and I think that it's aged better than Mac OS X has

00:03:31 ◼   ► has aged as a name, as a branding thing.

00:03:36 ◼   ► But we'll see, I guess.

00:03:40 ◼   ► What do you guys think?

00:03:41 ◼   ► - So the eye is gone, right?

00:03:43 ◼   ► Like they don't use it anymore.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Apple have pushed the eye away

00:03:47 ◼   ► and they've basically replaced it with Apple,

00:03:50 ◼   ► like the Apple logo.

00:03:51 ◼   ► Apple TV and Apple Watch, et cetera.

00:03:56 ◼   ► I do see a world in the not too distant future.

00:03:59 ◼   ► I think maybe within five years or so that they start dropping the "i" from product names

00:04:05 ◼   ► and just rename things. I understand that like, you know, I've said this before, I remember

00:04:11 ◼   ► saying this once before on the show and you two got really aggressively upset at me. I

00:04:17 ◼   ► think that at some point they will just call the phone the Apple phone, but it needs some

00:04:22 ◼   ► kind of shift. I just don't think that "i" will continue and I think something Apple

00:04:28 ◼   ► always hated is all of the products that are called i-something and other people

00:04:34 ◼   ► can't call their thing Apple something because of all the trademarks that they

00:04:37 ◼   ► have like you just wouldn't be able to do that so that's where I think that

00:04:41 ◼   ► they're gonna go but I still think we're multiple years away from that. But Apple

00:04:44 ◼   ► phone is so terrible. Oh I know yeah but so is iPhone like when you really sit

00:04:50 ◼   ► down and think about it like iPhone is is a not a good name it's just a name

00:04:56 ◼   ► that it is. I think the name has become bigger than it is, right? Yeah. It is

00:05:01 ◼   ► just a word that we associate with the thing. It's not... Yeah, and that's what Apple

00:05:05 ◼   ► phone would be, right? Like, I don't think that we all recoil when we say Apple TV

00:05:10 ◼   ► anymore. When they first announced it, people were like, "Oh man, ITV was a much

00:05:15 ◼   ► better name." I don't know, but Apple phone makes it more of a phone as iPhone does.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I don't know if it makes any sense. I do also think that probably... maybe it's a

00:05:25 ◼   ► certain point that it won't be called phone anymore you are I don't think

00:05:31 ◼   ► they're gonna change the name of the world's most successful product I think

00:05:35 ◼   ► well I'm not saying that Apple is gonna be doing this but like in the future

00:05:39 ◼   ► that we're not gonna be calling these things phones anymore like well sure who

00:05:43 ◼   ► maybe does any phone stuff these days like most of the time when people call

00:05:48 ◼   ► me I answer on my iPad because I'm at home and it's connected to the Wi-Fi or

00:05:53 ◼   ► or I just ignore the call.

00:05:56 ◼   ► I just think that going into the future,

00:05:59 ◼   ► a lot of this naming stuff will change.

00:06:01 ◼   ► - We'll see.

00:06:04 ◼   ► - Maybe it's just a coffee talker.

00:06:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think you're just hyped up.

00:06:07 ◼   ► So anyways, an interesting idea, I for one vote against it.

00:06:12 ◼   ► Myke, you have many iPads and many thoughts

00:06:14 ◼   ► about your many iPads.

00:06:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, I didn't get as many people calling me crazy

00:06:21 ◼   ► as I thought I was gonna get.

00:06:23 ◼   ► - You did get some strong opinions about people

00:06:27 ◼   ► telling you how you should manage your money.

00:06:29 ◼   ► - There was one guy, there was one person,

00:06:33 ◼   ► I don't need to go into that right now.

00:06:35 ◼   ► But mostly I've had a lot of people this week

00:06:40 ◼   ► telling me that they're considering this multi iPad life.

00:06:44 ◼   ► And I just wanted to share some thoughts

00:06:47 ◼   ► having now used like dual wielding iPads for a week.

00:06:52 ◼   ► So using the 9.7 inch iPad really makes me value the size of the 12.9.

00:07:00 ◼   ► Every time I pick up the 12.9 now I'm like "oh look how big this screen is!"

00:07:03 ◼   ► Like it feels impossibly large every single time which is great.

00:07:06 ◼   ► Actually using both of them makes me like the other one more as well which is strange.

00:07:12 ◼   ► Because I'm starting to use them for very different things.

00:07:15 ◼   ► The 9.7 is where I do a lot of reading and catching up on stuff

00:07:19 ◼   ► and then the 12.9 is where I actually sit down and do some work

00:07:22 ◼   ► which is quite nice for me because I'm doing some more mode shifting

00:07:26 ◼   ► mentally about when I'm working and when I'm just like

00:07:31 ◼   ► not working, just tooling around.

00:07:33 ◼   ► So that's quite nice and I'm trying to find ways to kind of expand

00:07:38 ◼   ► that a little bit more, maybe going a little bit closer to some of the stuff that Grey's doing with his iPads.

00:07:45 ◼   ► The smart keyboard on the 9.7 does something that makes me very uncomfortable.

00:07:51 ◼   ► like when you put it into the standing mode you know like you flip it around and it becomes a

00:07:55 ◼   ► stand the ipad is basically vertical like it doesn't go back at all it's like you stand it

00:08:02 ◼   ► up and it's like straight up and it freaks me out every single time that it's just gonna go

00:08:06 ◼   ► smash right onto the front uh i don't know why it's like that the smart keyboard on the 12 9

00:08:12 ◼   ► is it has way too much slack so it goes back too far and then the 9 7 doesn't go back at all which

00:08:19 ◼   ► which is really very peculiar.

00:08:23 ◼   ► I'm trying to just kind of work out where these things fit in my life, but I really

00:08:27 ◼   ► do like the 9.7 inch.

00:08:29 ◼   ► I love True Tone.

00:08:32 ◼   ► The display on this thing is insane.

00:08:34 ◼   ► The colours are amazing.

00:08:36 ◼   ► The True Tone is amazing.

00:08:37 ◼   ► It's by far and away the best screen that I've ever used on an iOS device.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Can you explain that to me, Myke?

00:08:44 ◼   ► Because I've seen so many people talking about the display.

00:08:47 ◼   ► I mean it's just slightly adjusting colors. Is that really a big deal?

00:08:52 ◼   ► So there is an increase in the color gamut right?

00:08:54 ◼   ► And there are certain things where I look at them like for example every time I look at my home screen

00:08:59 ◼   ► it's like I've never seen a home screen look like that before.

00:09:01 ◼   ► There's just something about the screen where it's like this just looks amazing.

00:09:06 ◼   ► All of the icons look better, my wallpaper looks better.

00:09:09 ◼   ► It just you look at it and you just get this sense of like there is something different here

00:09:14 ◼   ► and I'm not sure what it is and it's the increase of color that it has.

00:09:17 ◼   ► Like there was this thing that Jason was telling me that he spoke to someone at Apple about

00:09:22 ◼   ► where there is an American sports team that has an orange jersey. I can't even remember

00:09:28 ◼   ► the name of them. But the color of the jersey that it is, if you look at it on any other

00:09:34 ◼   ► iPad other than the 9 7, you see it, but it's not the correct color. Only the 9.7 inch iPad

00:09:40 ◼   ► can show the correct color of that jersey because of the type of orange that it is.

00:09:44 ◼   ► - Mm. - Which is just a funny thing.

00:09:46 ◼   ► And that sort of stuff I don't think is too important

00:09:48 ◼   ► to so many people, like how many colors

00:09:50 ◼   ► the thing can produce, but what I'm finding for me

00:09:53 ◼   ► is that I'm seeing a result which is a screen

00:09:58 ◼   ► that looks nicer than any other screen that I've used.

00:10:01 ◼   ► And True Tone, like for everything that I like

00:10:04 ◼   ► Night Shift about, I love for True Tone as well,

00:10:07 ◼   ► because it does a great job of making things

00:10:11 ◼   ► on the eyes and I'm really enjoying reading stuff on the 9.7 for that reason.

00:10:19 ◼   ► It's nicer to look at for longer periods of time.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Would you say True Tone is just as important as the Retina display was when

00:10:27 ◼   ► it launched?

00:10:28 ◼   ► No, I mean, Retina was an incredible jump that we couldn't have

00:10:37 ◼   ► imagined right like that a screen could look that good. True Tone builds on the

00:10:46 ◼   ► quality of the screen and the colors that it can produce and night shift like

00:10:50 ◼   ► it builds on those together and makes things more comfortable but it doesn't

00:10:55 ◼   ► really enhance the use of the iPad in any way like the retina displays

00:11:00 ◼   ► really push them forward and True Tone just makes the already great display

00:11:05 ◼   ► more comfortable to look at. Yeah okay thank you. So that's kind of where I am with it right now.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I'm totally keeping the 9 7. I'm gonna buy another pencil for it like so I've got everything all set

00:11:16 ◼   ► up. I love it and I'm really enjoying using both of them and the more I've been using this kind of

00:11:24 ◼   ► the analogy that I'm gonna settle on is it's just like having my desktop and my laptop and I used

00:11:32 ◼   ► used to use those for different things and that's kind of how I'm using this

00:11:35 ◼   ► now. Like so for example in the morning when I wake up I pick up the 9/7, I catch

00:11:39 ◼   ► up on Twitter, I catch up on slack, I you know will maybe read some articles or

00:11:44 ◼   ► stuff that I want to get and then when I get out of bed and get ready for work I

00:11:47 ◼   ► pick up the 12/9 and that's when I start doing email and invoicing and show prep

00:11:51 ◼   ► and all that sort of stuff. So it's working well for me. I like it. I know

00:11:56 ◼   ► it's incredibly indulgent but I like it. I have questions for you Myke. Alright I

00:12:00 ◼   ► I want them. So the first thing I want to know is do you multitask on the 9.7 with split

00:12:07 ◼   ► view? In a totally different way. So in the 12.9 it's very unlikely that I don't have

00:12:15 ◼   ► two apps open at once. Like just most of the time I'll have two apps open at once. Because

00:12:20 ◼   ► so many apps full screen just don't need to be full screen. Like for example Tweetbot

00:12:25 ◼   ► in full screen on the 12.9. It's just too big. You don't need it. Right. So I usually

00:12:30 ◼   ► have Slack open at the same time or something or messages or notes or something. I typically

00:12:34 ◼   ► will have something there. The same with Slack. I don't need to see that other panel all the

00:12:38 ◼   ► time so I'll typically have something open. Same with email. Like loads of these apps

00:12:42 ◼   ► they're like it's great that they're full screen and they're big but most of the time

00:12:46 ◼   ► you don't need that so I have more apps open at once. On the 9.7 I use split screen but

00:12:52 ◼   ► I use it for a thing and then go back to full screen. So for example I might want to say

00:12:57 ◼   ► something to somebody in Slack and I'm in Tweetbot, I'll open Slack, I'll put them into

00:13:00 ◼   ► split screen, I'll say what I need to say, wait for a reply, say what I need to say,

00:13:04 ◼   ► and then when I'm done, I will then close Slack and go back to full screen on Tweetbot,

00:13:09 ◼   ► which is something I don't do on the 12.9, because it's just too small, everything's

00:13:13 ◼   ► too small.

00:13:15 ◼   ► But I actually quite like the keyboard.

00:13:18 ◼   ► I make less mistakes on the 9.7 inch keyboard than I do on the 12.9.

00:13:23 ◼   ► So the other thing I want to know, Myke, is after having a smaller iPad again, have you

00:13:32 ◼   ► noticed aspects of iOS 9 that you maybe didn't notice when you were using the bigger iPad

00:13:39 ◼   ► Pro?

00:13:40 ◼   ► I noticed things that are better on the iPad Pro.

00:13:43 ◼   ► So like, Notification Center is way better on the iPad Pro.

00:13:48 ◼   ► On the bigger one?

00:13:49 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's always got the two-pane, no matter whether you're portrait or landscape,

00:13:54 ◼   ► but when you go into portrait on the 9.7, it shows all of the widgets in one view, which

00:13:59 ◼   ► is not what I want, because I like the kind of the split screen view on the 12.9.

00:14:06 ◼   ► The iOS home screen is way better looking on the 9.7.

00:14:10 ◼   ► I mean, we know this, but it makes me realize how ridiculous it looks on the 12.9.

00:14:18 ◼   ► But other than that, it really does feel to me like iOS 9 was built for the 12.9 inch

00:14:23 ◼   ► iPad, not the 9.7.

00:14:26 ◼   ► Just because all of the big benefits make more sense with more screen real estate.

00:14:32 ◼   ► My last question, Myke, is I want to know, since now you have two iPads, have you found

00:14:40 ◼   ► yourself using the smaller iPad Pro and doing things, talking to people, doing research,

00:14:50 ◼   ► I don't know, and while you're doing them you think "I should do this on the bigger

00:14:55 ◼   ► iPad Pro, but now I'm using this one and I don't want to switch". I'm trying to understand

00:15:00 ◼   ► if there's a pressure in switching constantly between devices that you maybe didn't know

00:15:06 ◼   ► was there.

00:15:07 ◼   ► There's a lot of pressure, but there are times where I get into something and I have to be

00:15:11 ◼   ► better on the other one and then I just pick up the other one.

00:15:14 ◼   ► Okay.

00:15:15 ◼   ► Right?

00:15:16 ◼   ► Because it works for me.

00:15:17 ◼   ► Actually, in quite a lot of instances, they're both kind of in the same place.

00:15:21 ◼   ► I've used them, you know, I was talking about the dual display thing last time.

00:15:25 ◼   ► I've used them like that.

00:15:27 ◼   ► So I'm working on something and I have both of them there so I can look at two different

00:15:30 ◼   ► things that I need to look at or three things or four things that I need to look at at once.

00:15:35 ◼   ► I've used them for that which is good but I get what you're saying. I don't feel pressure

00:15:40 ◼   ► but there are times where I'm like I'm just going to switch from one to the other and

00:15:43 ◼   ► then I will just switch from one to the other. And that's working out fine in all honesty

00:15:51 ◼   ► like I'm kind of okay with the way that that is fitting for me. There's one other little

00:15:58 ◼   ► thing that I wanted to mention which is something that I'm still trying to work on but I haven't

00:16:02 ◼   ► fix this yet, is managing the iPads.

00:16:06 ◼   ► - What do you mean?

00:16:08 ◼   ► - Like we're gonna talk about Telegram in a bit, right?

00:16:12 ◼   ► And I installed Telegram on one of my iPads,

00:16:16 ◼   ► and then was later on thinking about,

00:16:19 ◼   ► oh, I'm waiting on a reply and it's not coming through here,

00:16:22 ◼   ► it's because I didn't have it installed on the other one.

00:16:25 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, yeah.

00:16:26 ◼   ► - Right, so it's like, I've been thinking about

00:16:29 ◼   ► maybe playing around with automatic downloads a little bit and seeing how that might work.

00:16:35 ◼   ► But it's just I'm noticing that I'm having to maintain them. And I don't know if that's

00:16:41 ◼   ► going to be a problem long term because I'm still kind of, I'm still in that like setup

00:16:46 ◼   ► mode, like I set up the 9.7 from fresh. You know what you should do? You should manage

00:16:52 ◼   ► your iOS devices like a school and use the MDM tool.

00:16:57 ◼   ► use for your Mac mini server right there.

00:17:01 ◼   ► I suggested this to Gray once and he wasn't interested but I mean we've had Bushaw as

00:17:06 ◼   ► a sponsor of the show before and this is what they do and I've thought about looking at

00:17:11 ◼   ► it right because it seems like just an easy way to manage a couple of devices. I might

00:17:15 ◼   ► do I'm gonna if it's if this continues to be a problem and something like automatic

00:17:20 ◼   ► downloads doesn't work then I'm gonna look at something like one of these MDM tools because

00:17:24 ◼   ► I feel like I could maybe hack around with that and get what I want out of it.

00:17:31 ◼   ► I'm deep man, I'm deep into this now.

00:17:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I was gonna ask kind of one, it's more of a hypothetical follow-up question potentially,

00:17:42 ◼   ► but say that you travel or go work at a co-working space or something like that, which iPad do

00:17:50 ◼   ► you take?

00:17:51 ◼   ► Do you take both?

00:17:52 ◼   ► playing out in sort of situations where you're not at home at your desk.

00:17:58 ◼   ► So this is something that I was considering when I originally bought the thing, right,

00:18:02 ◼   ► which is why I put Solider on it. So I'm about to leave for Atlanta, and I have to bring

00:18:08 ◼   ► my MacBook with me because I have some shows that I'll need to edit on the way, but I am

00:18:13 ◼   ► only going to bring the 9.7 because in that scenario I'm not going to be needing to do

00:18:19 ◼   ► much work while I'm away really like because I'm going to be busy with stuff at the pen show

00:18:23 ◼   ► and this one is lighter and it's smaller so I'm just going to bring that one. It makes more sense

00:18:29 ◼   ► to me in this scenario but let's say that I wasn't taking the MacBook with me I would take only the

00:18:35 ◼   ► 12 9 because then I don't need to worry about weight or size because I've only got one device.

00:18:39 ◼   ► So I'm trying to just work out what the better pairings are but for this trip I'm just going to

00:18:45 ◼   ► gonna take the 97. Okay. It's weird. It's weird and I know people think it's weird

00:18:52 ◼   ► because it is weird but I really do feel like like you did Federico like I am on

00:18:58 ◼   ► the cusp of understanding what I believe the future of computing to be. Whether

00:19:02 ◼   ► I'm right or wrong I don't really think that matters because I'm not trying to

00:19:06 ◼   ► tell people what's right and wrong but I'm working out what's right for me and

00:19:10 ◼   ► And I think that this is the future of computing for me.

00:19:14 ◼   ► - Don't you dare, Myke.

00:19:16 ◼   ► - I know.

00:19:17 ◼   ► - Find something that works for you and share it online.

00:19:19 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:19:21 ◼   ► - Too late, buy all the iPads.

00:19:23 ◼   ► - You should have big disclaimers.

00:19:25 ◼   ► This is my personal opinion, you know?

00:19:27 ◼   ► - It is.

00:19:30 ◼   ► - And put them in your podcasts and your articles.

00:19:33 ◼   ► - I'm trying to say, and you know what, in all honesty,

00:19:35 ◼   ► like I've kind of been saying that

00:19:37 ◼   ► people haven't really been freaking out at me as much as I expected that they would.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Because I appreciate that owning and using two iPads is kind of bonkers,

00:19:49 ◼   ► but I really do think that it makes sense once you give in to the fact that you can do your work

00:19:58 ◼   ► from iOS. Once you give in to that fact, and for a lot of people it is giving in to that fact,

00:20:04 ◼   ► and you realize that what you can, the majority of what you can do or all you can do, say

00:20:08 ◼   ► somebody like Federico's case, you can do all of that stuff on the iOS if you just give the

00:20:13 ◼   ► time to learn it. I think that this system starts to make sense. My goal for the next

00:20:19 ◼   ► six months is to convince Federico to buy another iPad.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Why is this such a personal goal of yours?

00:20:26 ◼   ► I think now, right, before it was a joke, right?

00:20:30 ◼   ► Okay.

00:20:30 ◼   ► But now I am living this joke.

00:20:33 ◼   ► I think that it is something that you would enjoy.

00:20:36 ◼   ► See, I asked you about the pressure of switching devices.

00:20:42 ◼   ► And I ask you because it's something that I imagine I would have a problem with.

00:20:47 ◼   ► Already I'm finding myself sometimes wondering, I'm using my 6S Plus and I'm doing things

00:20:55 ◼   ► and I wonder, "Should I maybe pick up the iPad and just do it on the iPad?"

00:20:59 ◼   ► And if it's already happening with my phone and the iPad,

00:21:04 ◼   ► imagine adding another iPad to the mix,

00:21:07 ◼   ► and what would happen there?

00:21:09 ◼   ► - I think it's part of just,

00:21:11 ◼   ► what you eventually do, like what I'm doing,

00:21:14 ◼   ► is understanding where that task should be done.

00:21:18 ◼   ► And once you kind of have an idea for that, it's great.

00:21:20 ◼   ► But the good thing about those two devices,

00:21:23 ◼   ► those two iPads, is they're both perfectly capable

00:21:26 ◼   ► to do anything that you can do on the other one.

00:21:28 ◼   ► It's just, where does it feel nicer to do it?

00:21:30 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I don't know, because I would go crazy

00:21:36 ◼   ► with setting up the same layouts for the home screen,

00:21:40 ◼   ► the same apps, the same updates.

00:21:43 ◼   ► I would really have a problem there, Myke.

00:21:46 ◼   ► Like I would be, I don't know.

00:21:49 ◼   ► - Well, so this is my thing, right?

00:21:50 ◼   ► I'm now gonna try and solve this problem, right?

00:21:54 ◼   ► So I'm gonna try and find a way that this works,

00:21:57 ◼   ► this management of these mobile devices. That's why I'm giving myself six months.

00:22:02 ◼   ► Because I still have to work out what is the...

00:22:07 ◼   ► what is the right way to go around this, because I think that you would benefit

00:22:11 ◼   ► from this because of how much you move around, for example.

00:22:15 ◼   ► So, you know...

00:22:16 ◼   ► So what happens in six months?

00:22:18 ◼   ► You gave yourself six months for the iPad or to convince me?

00:22:22 ◼   ► To convince you.

00:22:24 ◼   ► Oh, so you have six months to convince you.

00:22:26 ◼   ► I have six months to convince you.

00:22:27 ◼   ► Who told you that six months is enough?

00:22:29 ◼   ► I feel like you just got to set a date on these things.

00:22:32 ◼   ► Because if I said forever, on an infinite time scale,

00:22:34 ◼   ► you probably will do it.

00:22:36 ◼   ► So I've got to set a limit on these things,

00:22:38 ◼   ► and I've set six months.

00:22:40 ◼   ► Do you have a schedule, like a timeline?

00:22:42 ◼   ► Like the first month, you're going to try a strategy.

00:22:44 ◼   ► The second month, you're going to try another one?

00:22:47 ◼   ► Not yet.

00:22:47 ◼   ► I've literally just set the goal, so--

00:22:49 ◼   ► Oh, OK.

00:22:50 ◼   ► So right now.

00:22:52 ◼   ► I have some work to do.

00:22:53 ◼   ► Okay, well we'll see. I mean, you have six months until October, Myke.

00:23:00 ◼   ► I have until October. Kyle, if you're out there, set up a calendar event.

00:23:05 ◼   ► You know he's gonna do it. You're the arbiter in this one.

00:23:08 ◼   ► You know he's gonna do it. Yeah, exactly. I know that if anyone's gonna

00:23:11 ◼   ► do it, he'll be the one to do it, so ask him to take care of it for me.

00:23:17 ◼   ► This week's episode is brought to you by Memories. Everybody that listens to this show, I expect

00:23:23 ◼   ► expect

00:23:47 ◼   ► to do this. But now you have an app called Memories for iOS which gives you that feature

00:23:53 ◼   ► for iCloud Photo Library. It will show you all of the photos that you've taken on the

00:23:58 ◼   ► same date as the day that you're looking, grouped together by year so you're able to

00:24:02 ◼   ► travel back in time and revisit old photos that you might otherwise not ever see again.

00:24:07 ◼   ► I think a lot of people listening to this show settled on iCloud Photo Library as their

00:24:12 ◼   ► method for storing their photos because it's built into all of our devices and I think

00:24:16 ◼   ► we're all pretty convinced that Apple's going to keep doing this. We're not worried that

00:24:19 ◼   ► they're going to explode into a puff of smoke like Eberpix did. So this is why something

00:24:24 ◼   ► like Memories is a good option. You'll get a notification each day to tell you how many

00:24:29 ◼   ► memories you have that day and quickly see them in a lovely today view widget as well

00:24:33 ◼   ► if you just want to get that quick boost of nice photos. If you want to see past photos

00:24:39 ◼   ► from another date you simply select the date in their date picker, swipe up to down as

00:24:43 ◼   ► as well to see memories for a different day.

00:24:45 ◼   ► It's all very beautifully presented.

00:24:47 ◼   ► Memories makes it easy to then share these photos.

00:24:50 ◼   ► And if you've come across photos you'd rather forget,

00:24:52 ◼   ► it's easy to remove them too.

00:24:53 ◼   ► You can check it out and learn more

00:24:55 ◼   ► at memories.land/connected.

00:24:58 ◼   ► They have one of those cool URLs,

00:24:59 ◼   ► memories.land/connected.

00:25:01 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Memories for their support

00:25:04 ◼   ► of this very program.

00:25:05 ◼   ► All right, so we've spoken about my ridiculous buying habits

00:25:11 ◼   ► So let's talk about Steven's ridiculous hoarding habits.

00:25:14 ◼   ► How many IMAX do you own now?

00:25:18 ◼   ► Because it looks like in the last week

00:25:19 ◼   ► there has been some serious progression on this.

00:25:22 ◼   ► - There has been some serious progression.

00:25:23 ◼   ► So let me, I was actually pulling up the note

00:25:25 ◼   ► during your ad read, let's see.

00:25:27 ◼   ► So I think since last time we spoke,

00:25:32 ◼   ► a tangerine and a ruby showed up.

00:25:37 ◼   ► I have a blueberry on the way

00:25:40 ◼   ► and I have a graphite as well,

00:25:44 ◼   ► but it's got some weird visual issues

00:25:47 ◼   ► that I'm trying to work through.

00:25:48 ◼   ► So I don't know if that one's gonna stick or not.

00:25:51 ◼   ► So yeah, so I'm getting close.

00:25:52 ◼   ► So all I have left is a Bondi Blue,

00:25:57 ◼   ► a Snow, and a Blue Dalmatian,

00:26:01 ◼   ► which I'm actually picking up this weekend.

00:26:04 ◼   ► - So really, just Bondi Blue and Snow then?

00:26:09 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I mean as far as I know the blue dimension is all settled up so...

00:26:14 ◼   ► Well because the graphite one, I mean they don't need to really work do they?

00:26:17 ◼   ► Well no, and in fact the Ruby doesn't have a power supply inside but the graphite had

00:26:22 ◼   ► some, the person I got this from is finding this out as they listen to the show so sorry,

00:26:29 ◼   ► it had some Apple stickers on the side that I was able to get off but it discoloured the

00:26:33 ◼   ► plastic pretty badly so I mean the idea is that I want all of these visualities to be

00:26:37 ◼   ► in good shape. So the graphite may end up getting swapped out, although I have somebody

00:26:43 ◼   ► in my inbox who I think has a graphite. So yeah, I'm at the end, basically. I'm very

00:26:49 ◼   ► close to the end. I feel like Bondi Blue was one of the really popular colors. Why is this

00:26:54 ◼   ► one proving so hard to find? Well, so Bondi Blue is interesting, again, asterisk interesting

00:27:00 ◼   ► to me. Bondi Blue was the first iMac and when they went to five colors they replaced Bondi

00:27:08 ◼   ► Blue with Blueberry which unless they're side by side you can't, like in pictures you can't

00:27:12 ◼   ► tell the difference but side by side Blueberry is slightly different. And so it looks like

00:27:17 ◼   ► if you're just perusing eBay it looks like there's a lot of Bondi Blues but in reality

00:27:20 ◼   ► it's only that first generation machine that was only for sale for like seven months or

00:27:25 ◼   ► something. And so A) I don't know how many people like jumped on the first iMac

00:27:30 ◼   ► G3 like I don't I can't find sales figures anywhere so part of my part of

00:27:35 ◼   ► me thinks that maybe it was like the first MacBook Air of like it was the

00:27:39 ◼   ► future right like you got rid of my ADB ports and I have USB and there's no

00:27:42 ◼   ► floppy drive and so my impression if someone who was around during this time

00:27:49 ◼   ► Jason could enlighten me it'd be great but my thought is the Bonnie Blue didn't

00:27:54 ◼   ► do very well or for some reason like in searching for these things it's been

00:27:58 ◼   ► harder to find than I expected so I don't know like I said last time a lot

00:28:03 ◼   ► of people have the later ones of graphite snow indigo those are those have

00:28:09 ◼   ► been easier so so I don't know it's I've discovered all sorts of interesting

00:28:14 ◼   ► little things here and like I said like I said last time I've heard from a lot

00:28:18 ◼   ► of people sharing their stories of like their first max and a lot of people's

00:28:21 ◼   ► first Macs were there, an iMac G3.

00:28:25 ◼   ► And I've gotten even more emails sort of in that vein

00:28:29 ◼   ► this week of people saying, hey, I've got this iMac

00:28:33 ◼   ► and I would give it to you, but it's the one

00:28:35 ◼   ► that I use in school and it's important to me,

00:28:36 ◼   ► but I want to share photos of it with you

00:28:38 ◼   ► or share my story.

00:28:39 ◼   ► And so that's been really fun to hear about

00:28:42 ◼   ► that sort of stuff.

00:28:43 ◼   ► I mean, it was a computer that made an impact

00:28:46 ◼   ► on a lot of people.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Just this weekend I moved them into my office

00:28:50 ◼   ► because there was a lot of IMAX to have in my house.

00:28:53 ◼   ► And someone up here in the building even remarked

00:28:56 ◼   ► that she remembered using them in school.

00:28:58 ◼   ► And it was like the first computer she used in school

00:28:59 ◼   ► and she's a Mac user now.

00:29:01 ◼   ► And so even just like hauling them in from my car

00:29:04 ◼   ► into the office, there's been a little chance

00:29:06 ◼   ► for people to like share their story with it.

00:29:10 ◼   ► So that's fun and I hope to capitalize that

00:29:12 ◼   ► in the video projects of, you know,

00:29:15 ◼   ► that this is a machine that a lot of people remember fondly.

00:29:18 ◼   ► Do you know what would be kind of cool to perform some kind of ritual?

00:29:24 ◼   ► Once you have a lot of the IMAX, you put them on the ground, on the floor, you form a circle,

00:29:30 ◼   ► and you put a person in the middle, like a PC user, and then you convert them to the

00:29:35 ◼   ► Mac operating system.

00:29:37 ◼   ► It would be kind of creepy and awesome at the same time.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Like some kind of ritual.

00:29:42 ◼   ► Well, there you go.

00:29:45 ◼   ► I was going to say something else, but now it's gone.

00:29:49 ◼   ► It's gone from my brain forever.

00:29:51 ◼   ► So thank you for that Federico.

00:29:53 ◼   ► I now remember what it was.

00:29:56 ◼   ► When I was 16, I had work experience

00:30:00 ◼   ► and part of my work experience, I was working at this,

00:30:03 ◼   ► I don't really know what it was,

00:30:06 ◼   ► like a computer center for schools

00:30:08 ◼   ► that didn't have computer classes.

00:30:11 ◼   ► So schools from around this neighborhood would come there

00:30:14 ◼   ► And basically it was like, they had like 60 iMacs

00:30:17 ◼   ► and my job while I was there was,

00:30:20 ◼   ► one of the jobs I had to perform

00:30:21 ◼   ► was to install a new version of OS X

00:30:23 ◼   ► on all of them with CDs.

00:30:25 ◼   ► - Fun times.

00:30:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, I feel like that's something you would have loved.

00:30:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think I've told the story before

00:30:32 ◼   ► but I, at the college newspaper we had a couple iMac G3s,

00:30:36 ◼   ► or the high school newspaper, excuse me,

00:30:38 ◼   ► and we upgraded from OS 9 to OS X

00:30:41 ◼   ► and then I decided, I was like,

00:30:42 ◼   ► "Oh, we should have the same fonts on all the machines."

00:30:44 ◼   ► And I of course didn't know anything about user permissions

00:30:48 ◼   ► or user library versus system library.

00:30:50 ◼   ► And so I copied all these font files around

00:30:52 ◼   ► and basically broke OS 10 on like three iMac G3s

00:30:57 ◼   ► and the like the school district, like IT persons

00:31:02 ◼   ► who was at our school a couple days a week

00:31:04 ◼   ► and went to some other school.

00:31:06 ◼   ► She came and got it fixed.

00:31:07 ◼   ► And she was, I remember very clearly

00:31:09 ◼   ► her getting onto me for doing this,

00:31:11 ◼   ► but then explaining why what I had done was a bad decision.

00:31:16 ◼   ► And she didn't have to do that, right?

00:31:18 ◼   ► Like she could have just fixed it

00:31:19 ◼   ► or told me not to touch it.

00:31:21 ◼   ► But to this day, that interaction I had with her

00:31:25 ◼   ► shaped a lot of the ways that I try to deal with technology

00:31:28 ◼   ► with people who aren't as well versed in it as I am.

00:31:31 ◼   ► It's like, hey, this is what happened.

00:31:33 ◼   ► This is why it would happen.

00:31:34 ◼   ► So just like you guys, these machines mean a lot to me too.

00:31:37 ◼   ► And now I've got, you know, they're sitting on a bookshelf

00:31:41 ◼   ► kind of above me right now.

00:31:43 ◼   ► I mean, there's like eight of them in here now

00:31:44 ◼   ► or nine or something.

00:31:45 ◼   ► I've got a couple in my car.

00:31:46 ◼   ► So it's getting crazy over here,

00:31:49 ◼   ► but getting close to being done.

00:31:51 ◼   ► - Once you're done with this,

00:31:53 ◼   ► like you've collected them all

00:31:55 ◼   ► and you have completed the video project

00:31:58 ◼   ► that you're working on

00:31:59 ◼   ► and probably taken a bunch of photos,

00:32:02 ◼   ► what are you gonna do with them?

00:32:03 ◼   ► - It's like sending kids off to college.

00:32:07 ◼   ► - That's a question I actually didn't think of

00:32:10 ◼   ► until like yesterday, as I was putting,

00:32:12 ◼   ► I've got a tangerine in my trunk.

00:32:14 ◼   ► I was like, what are we gonna do with all these

00:32:15 ◼   ► when this is done?

00:32:16 ◼   ► And so I don't know, I mean,

00:32:19 ◼   ► I would like to say that I'm gonna keep a couple of them

00:32:23 ◼   ► and maybe I'll find a good use for the others,

00:32:27 ◼   ► but I don't know yet.

00:32:29 ◼   ► I mean, part of me wants to keep them all,

00:32:30 ◼   ► but they take up a ridiculous amount of space.

00:32:33 ◼   ► I'll take a picture so we can have for the show notes

00:32:36 ◼   ► of where I have them stored right now and it's just like, I mean, it's a lot of space.

00:32:43 ◼   ► We'll see. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

00:32:46 ◼   ► Has the police ever pulled you over with all those IMAX in your trunk?

00:32:51 ◼   ► Not yet. It's just a matter of time, really.

00:32:55 ◼   ► You know it's gonna happen and you're gonna have to come up with a good excuse, Steven.

00:33:00 ◼   ► I'm a Mac historian. For some reason it doesn't sound like a good excuse to a police officer.

00:33:06 ◼   ► There is this weird thing that happens because we share this office building with some other

00:33:10 ◼   ► people where I brought in like four the other day and I could just like feel like people

00:33:14 ◼   ► looking at me as I brought them to the building.

00:33:16 ◼   ► Like what are you doing?

00:33:19 ◼   ► But yeah, it's whatever.

00:33:22 ◼   ► This is great.

00:33:23 ◼   ► This is one of the best things you've done with old maps.

00:33:26 ◼   ► It really is.

00:33:27 ◼   ► It's so entertaining and love running and for me it's not getting boring.

00:33:30 ◼   ► It just gets more and more crazy every time.

00:33:34 ◼   ► It's fantastic.

00:33:35 ◼   ► Okay, Federico, for some reason, you've been up to something that I saw you were doing

00:33:43 ◼   ► and didn't really, I don't know why I didn't pay too much attention to it until yesterday,

00:33:47 ◼   ► which is playing around with Telegram.

00:33:50 ◼   ► Now when we were putting this into our document, I knew what Telegram was, Steven had no idea

00:33:55 ◼   ► what Telegram is and what you're doing with it.

00:33:59 ◼   ► So could you explain first off what Telegram is and then talk a little bit about what you're

00:34:04 ◼   ► doing with MacSories? The Telegram is a mobile messaging service. It's got apps for everything

00:34:12 ◼   ► basically. It's like WhatsApp, right? If you're in Europe or elsewhere, you know what it is.

00:34:18 ◼   ► It started out as an alternative to WhatsApp, really. It was made in Russia with a focus

00:34:23 ◼   ► on privacy and security. One of the most distinctive features back in the day was encryption. You

00:34:30 ◼   ► You could have end-to-end encrypted conversations with your friends.

00:34:34 ◼   ► You could have secret chats which self-destruct after a while.

00:34:38 ◼   ► Kind of like Snapchat, really.

00:34:40 ◼   ► Now of course WhatsApp has a bunch of similar encryption features.

00:34:45 ◼   ► But Telegram really is available on every platform, so it's on the iPhone, the iPad,

00:34:49 ◼   ► Apple Watch, Mac, Android.

00:34:51 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure there's a web app somewhere.

00:34:55 ◼   ► It's really well done, really well polished, and they move fast.

00:34:59 ◼   ► So they ship updates every few weeks, there's a major feature update.

00:35:04 ◼   ► The design is very polished, it's fast, it's free, and it's kind of fun because there's

00:35:11 ◼   ► excellent support for in-line, like in conversations, in-line previews.

00:35:16 ◼   ► So you can share GIFs, you can share stickers, you can install stickers from other people

00:35:22 ◼   ► on the internet, you can play videos in-line, like YouTube videos, right into the app.

00:35:27 ◼   ► It's really fun, really polished, fast, secure. I've been meaning to... a lot of my friends

00:35:34 ◼   ► use WhatsApp, but I cannot use it because it doesn't have an iPad app and I don't want

00:35:40 ◼   ► to chat.

00:35:41 ◼   ► The web app is kind of weird because it runs off the iPhone app as a local server and you

00:35:50 ◼   ► gotta use it in a web browser. It's kind of weird. So I wanted to use something like WhatsApp,

00:35:55 ◼   ► person-to-person conversations or group conversations without having to invite a person every time

00:36:03 ◼   ► to my Slack account. I wanted to have something like WhatsApp, which wasn't WhatsApp, and

00:36:09 ◼   ► a lot of people on Twitter told me "you should really check out Telegram" because

00:36:14 ◼   ► it's grown quite a bit since the first few years. And I'm glad I did, I've been

00:36:19 ◼   ► I've been using Telegram for maybe two, three months now.

00:36:23 ◼   ► I've been working on a major project for Maxories, which should be launching really soon,

00:36:29 ◼   ► all through Telegram with this other person.

00:36:33 ◼   ► The great thing about Telegram is that you can also not just talk to other people or groups of people,

00:36:40 ◼   ► you can also follow channels.

00:36:43 ◼   ► And channels are like... you cannot talk in a channel, you can only follow.

00:36:50 ◼   ► So there's publications like tech blogs or general news sites, they can open a channel

00:36:58 ◼   ► and you can follow a channel and they can share all kinds of things.

00:37:02 ◼   ► So it's like you observe a conversation from other people without any way to actively participate

00:37:09 ◼   ► in that conversation.

00:37:10 ◼   ► Which is a great... it's like a private Twitter feed without the limitations of character

00:37:16 ◼   ► counts and the great thing is I've been following a bunch of channels from... mostly from Italian

00:37:23 ◼   ► web blogs and they were the major inspiration for me for what we started doing with backstories.

00:37:30 ◼   ► And I especially wanna... I wanna mention the Italian website multiplayer.it. It's a

00:37:37 ◼   ► a video game website and a dear friend of mine, Antonio, works there

00:37:41 ◼   ► and they do an awesome work with the Telegram channel

00:37:44 ◼   ► they have over 2,000 members and

00:37:47 ◼   ► it's really nice, it's a nice way to get a glimpse of what they're working on

00:37:51 ◼   ► a behind the scenes

00:37:52 ◼   ► and it's different from following

00:37:56 ◼   ► these people on Twitter because on Twitter there's no easy way to share

00:37:59 ◼   ► an audio clip and of course Telegram being a chat application you can share

00:38:03 ◼   ► voice chats. You can share stickers, GIFs, links, everything's got a fancy, nice preview, it's really cool.

00:38:11 ◼   ► And also you can follow and interact with bots. So a bot, which is one of the trends of 2016 I guess,

00:38:20 ◼   ► it's an automated system that shows you messages, sends you links to web pages and Twitter accounts.

00:38:31 ◼   ► There's all kinds of bots and you can interact with them either by talking or by having custom

00:38:40 ◼   ► interfaces and just yesterday Telegram launched a new bot platform which introduces some new

00:38:46 ◼   ► crazy features like you can play music with a bot, I don't know, it's kinda crazy.

00:38:52 ◼   ► So you should definitely check out the Telegram blog post about it because it's kinda awesome.

00:38:57 ◼   ► So anyway, I've been using Telegram to chat with people and to follow publications and

00:39:05 ◼   ► I guess other public figures through channels.

00:39:09 ◼   ► So my idea was I'm looking at this awesome work that these people are doing with Telegram

00:39:15 ◼   ► channels and I've been thinking about a way to show people what goes on in Mac Stories

00:39:22 ◼   ► every day without taking it to Twitter, for a couple of reasons.

00:39:28 ◼   ► The first one was the limitations with character counts and the way that you can share media.

00:39:35 ◼   ► So I wanted to have something quite media heavy, so a lot of silly things like stickers

00:39:41 ◼   ► and GIFs, but also screenshots and especially audio clips every day.

00:39:48 ◼   ► Or at least almost every day, that's my goal.

00:39:51 ◼   ► And it's difficult to do that on Twitter.

00:39:53 ◼   ► It's okay for images, but it's not okay for audio clips and GIFs, you know, everyone does

00:39:59 ◼   ► it in a different way on Twitter.

00:40:02 ◼   ► So I wanted to have something that could work with that.

00:40:04 ◼   ► But especially I didn't want to annoy people too much, especially now that we have quite

00:40:08 ◼   ► a few followers with the website and with my personal account.

00:40:11 ◼   ► I feel like...

00:40:13 ◼   ► I do feel like I'm gonna annoy people who just follow me because they wanna see Apple

00:40:19 ◼   ► news and some personal stuff, but they don't want to know everything because they're not

00:40:24 ◼   ► like super fans or like dedicated readers who have been around for years and years.

00:40:29 ◼   ► And I do understand why it could be annoying for those people to have like 20 messages

00:40:34 ◼   ► from me every single afternoon. So I was like, how can we give the people who really love

00:40:41 ◼   ► us, you know, the best people, how can we give them more without being too annoying

00:40:48 ◼   ► on Twitter for everyone, and while also being fun and personal and sort of unedited, you

00:40:54 ◼   ► know, without having to think about it too much.

00:40:57 ◼   ► And the Telegram channel was the perfect idea, because we could, you know, we could just

00:41:04 ◼   ► write as if it was a text message, we could invite people to join, and the most important

00:41:11 ◼   ► aspect, it's not like a Slack which we need to manage, where we need to become community

00:41:18 ◼   ► managers, where our time is inevitably spent managing people, managing trolls, or managing

00:41:27 ◼   ► offensive messages. It's like just a McSorry's team, right now it's the three of us, me,

00:41:32 ◼   ► John and Graham, just talking out loud sometimes, just thinking and sharing without the extra

00:41:41 ◼   ► responsibility of Twitter. I don't know if that makes any sense, Myke.

00:41:46 ◼   ► Yeah I really like it so I've been kind of over the last couple of days I installed Telegram

00:41:52 ◼   ► and I've been watching you guys and it's a lot of fun to watch what goes on behind the scenes so

00:41:59 ◼   ► like with the Six Colors membership Jason and Dan do a secret subscriber podcast which is like this

00:42:07 ◼   ► It's like imagining there was a meeting that discusses what's going to happen on a website

00:42:14 ◼   ► in a week, right? And you guys are kind of doing that every day. So there's discussions about

00:42:21 ◼   ► what's coming up on the site. You give kind of like teasers of the things that you're working on.

00:42:27 ◼   ► You talk about out loud some of the stuff you're working on. You did that kind of like audio

00:42:30 ◼   ► message yesterday, which I really liked where you're kind of just talking about what you're

00:42:34 ◼   ► you're doing today and kind of saying like this is the sort of stuff that I'm looking

00:42:37 ◼   ► for and this is what I'm working on. Like it's just a nice way to get a little bit more

00:42:43 ◼   ► of what's going on behind the scenes over at MaxLories and I think it's really cool.

00:42:49 ◼   ► And it did also help me come across a shocking discovery yesterday.

00:42:54 ◼   ► Oh God.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Which I will put a link in the show notes. Federico went for pizza and on his pizza he

00:43:00 ◼   ► has lemon on his pizza.

00:43:02 ◼   ► No, okay, okay, okay.

00:43:05 ◼   ► Lemon and what are they, prawns?

00:43:08 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:10 ◼   ► Oh, why?

00:43:11 ◼   ► Okay, so let me explain.

00:43:13 ◼   ► So yesterday I...

00:43:15 ◼   ► All things pizza, everyone.

00:43:17 ◼   ► Yesterday I went to see my oncologist.

00:43:20 ◼   ► Everything's fine, I just needed to hand over the tests and to have the in-person checkup

00:43:26 ◼   ► and everything's perfect.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And when we do that, me and Silvia, we go eat pizza in this pizza place in Terni, which

00:43:35 ◼   ► is the town where we go.

00:43:37 ◼   ► And it's not like a restaurant, you sit down and you get a full pizza.

00:43:42 ◼   ► It's like you choose a bunch of pizza slices with a different topping.

00:43:47 ◼   ► And in Italy, we have this thing going on when the good season, like the spring or the

00:43:54 ◼   ► summer approaches, you can have not necessarily like hot types of pizza, you have like fresh

00:44:03 ◼   ► types of pizzas. Like there's salad or seafood or, you know, prawns in this case, and it's

00:44:15 ◼   ► kind of, it's different because you only find, you usually find that in the summer and it's

00:44:20 ◼   ► It's kind of, I call it fresh pizza, because it's kind of refreshing, you know, it's different

00:44:25 ◼   ► from the usual margarita or, you know, that type of stuff.

00:44:30 ◼   ► And so the seafood on top of the pizza is totally normal here.

00:44:36 ◼   ► So the prawns or...

00:44:38 ◼   ► And pineapple's totally normal here.

00:44:41 ◼   ► Why would you compare seafood to pineapple?

00:44:45 ◼   ► Because there's two weird things on a pizza.

00:44:47 ◼   ► Really?

00:44:48 ◼   ► seafood or prawns I've never seen prawns on a pizza before really never ever no

00:44:54 ◼   ► lettuce there's lettuce on this pizza yeah it's it's completely normal here

00:44:59 ◼   ► and pineapples normal here my point of bringing this up was understanding that

00:45:05 ◼   ► it's that things are different like the coffee you know let me explain for

00:45:09 ◼   ► Italians salad or seafood any other type of mmm I want to say main dish

00:45:18 ◼   ► is okay for pizza. Any type of fruit is not okay for pizza.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Except for lemon, right? That's a garnish. So you remove... it's just

00:45:30 ◼   ► for the flavor or for the beauty. So another thing is that...

00:45:34 ◼   ► Just for the beauty? Yes, another... yes, I'm not kidding!

00:45:38 ◼   ► No, I believe you! That's probably the most Italian thing you have ever said to me.

00:45:44 ◼   ► Another thing... I'm not kidding, I wish I was kidding!

00:45:46 ◼   ► No, I believe you!

00:45:47 ◼   ► Another thing Italians really care about is the presentation of the meal.

00:45:52 ◼   ► So the garnish, so the decoration.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Even after you remove that before eating it.

00:45:57 ◼   ► I mean who eats a full lemon with a peel?

00:46:00 ◼   ► You know, you don't do that.

00:46:01 ◼   ► I would have been horrified if you told me you were eating it.

00:46:03 ◼   ► Hold on.

00:46:04 ◼   ► I do eat lemons because I love the taste of lemon.

00:46:09 ◼   ► I just, I peel them first.

00:46:12 ◼   ► So that was like a fully sliced lemon.

00:46:15 ◼   ► But that was a decoration, you know? And it's totally, I mean, salad and seafood is totally

00:46:21 ◼   ► normal here. I don't know. I guess you could go to some new age type of pizza place. Yeah,

00:46:29 ◼   ► that's what we call them. At least what I call them. You go to some new age hippie pizza

00:46:34 ◼   ► place and you can eat pizza with like apples on top or, you know, some other fancy new

00:46:40 ◼   ► new age ingredients, but seafood and salad is totally normal.

00:46:45 ◼   ► Anyway...

00:46:46 ◼   ► It sounds like a shocking discovery to you.

00:46:50 ◼   ► It is, and it was to many people. Anyway, so where can people go and sign up to find

00:46:56 ◼   ► your Telegram channel?

00:46:59 ◼   ► It's...

00:47:00 ◼   ► Telegram.me/Macstories.

00:47:01 ◼   ► There you go. The professional mic.

00:47:04 ◼   ► And if you... I recommend it, it's good. It's one of those things where I'm like, I'm sitting

00:47:08 ◼   ► and I'm like I want to talk to these guys, it's fun, I like it a lot, it's a cool thing

00:47:12 ◼   ► and there is also a Vatici Seal of Quality.

00:47:16 ◼   ► There is as a sticker.

00:47:17 ◼   ► As a sticker.

00:47:18 ◼   ► In Telegram, that anybody can access.

00:47:22 ◼   ► Anybody can use outside of the Maxories channel, you can install the sticker pack, I believe

00:47:27 ◼   ► there's going to be more stickers, but right now we basically have this Seal of Quality

00:47:33 ◼   ► which is associated with the 100 emoji, you know, that people use to indicate, I guess, something that is pretty cool.

00:47:42 ◼   ► Amazing.

00:47:43 ◼   ► It's pretty cool, yeah.

00:47:45 ◼   ► Alright, so, AirMail, there's been a big update to AirMail, you've written a big post on this,

00:47:51 ◼   ► I'm interested in what you guys think about this. I haven't checked out.

00:47:56 ◼   ► I played around with the iPad beta a little bit, but didn't really play around with it

00:48:02 ◼   ► too much because I'm pretty set on Outlook.

00:48:05 ◼   ► So were you Federico and now you're using Airmail.

00:48:09 ◼   ► So you know, you're just doing it to me again where you're like, "Come over to the Outlook

00:48:13 ◼   ► side Myke, it's really nice."

00:48:14 ◼   ► And I'm like, "Okay Federico."

00:48:15 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:48:16 ◼   ► And off I go.

00:48:17 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:18 ◼   ► Outlook is the, I believe the perfect basic email alternative right now.

00:48:25 ◼   ► If you don't want to use Apple Mail, go to Outlook immediately.

00:48:28 ◼   ► It's the best option you can have.

00:48:31 ◼   ► And some people seem surprised by the fact that I'm always checking out the best solutions

00:48:37 ◼   ► I can use.

00:48:38 ◼   ► Just on Outlook, real quick.

00:48:41 ◼   ► I just wanted to mention something that I did yesterday that just kind of blew me away.

00:48:46 ◼   ► I had a contract that I was looking over that was a Word document.

00:48:51 ◼   ► And when you open a Word document or any Microsoft format document in Outlook, a little button

00:48:56 ◼   ► pops up like the Word button.

00:48:58 ◼   ► So you press the Word button, it's opened Word, I could edit it only on my 9.7 inch

00:49:03 ◼   ► iPad because any screen over 10 inches needs a 365 subscription to edit a document.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Whatever, like that's the weird Microsoft stuff interrupting the good Microsoft stuff.

00:49:15 ◼   ► So I did it on an M.7 inch iPad and I edited the document and I pressed the little back

00:49:21 ◼   ► button expecting to go back to the document's view of Word. But instead what I did was I

00:49:26 ◼   ► went back to Outlook and the document that I've been working on had been saved as an

00:49:31 ◼   ► attachment in a reply to the original email. And I was like oh wow, that's good integration.

00:49:37 ◼   ► That's nice. That's nice. So before I talk about Airmail, I just saw someone in the chat

00:49:42 ◼   ► room ask a very important question, which is how do you say pineapple in Italian? And

00:49:48 ◼   ► the answer might blow you away. Do you want to know what we call the pineapple?

00:49:53 ◼   ► Please tell me.

00:49:56 ◼   ► We call it ananas.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Ananas, like bananas without a b?

00:50:01 ◼   ► Yes, but with the accent in a different place. Ananas, on the last a.

00:50:07 ◼   ► Wait, what do you call bananas?

00:50:09 ◼   ► Banana.

00:50:10 ◼   ► Okay. So, in English, pineapple is closer to apple, but in Italian it's closer to banana.

00:50:18 ◼   ► Nifa's right, because pineapple is neither like a banana or an apple. But here we are.

00:50:23 ◼   ► It's more like a pine, really. It's like a big pine. I guess English is more correct.

00:50:27 ◼   ► I don't know. It's like a big pine cone. I think it's probably

00:50:29 ◼   ► where it comes from. Yeah. Anyway, I was saying about email clients.

00:50:35 ◼   ► Some people seem surprised on Twitter that I'm moving between email clients.

00:50:41 ◼   ► I thought it was pretty clear that when it comes to task managers, I have found my sort

00:50:46 ◼   ► of safe haven to do, but email clients were still in flux, just because I haven't found

00:50:53 ◼   ► the perfect one for me.

00:50:54 ◼   ► One of the problems with email clients, and it can be a similar problem with task managers

00:50:59 ◼   ► when you compare it to something like a Twitter app, is it's a real pain to switch email

00:51:04 ◼   ► apps. Especially if you have more than two accounts, it's just a pain. Signing in to

00:51:11 ◼   ► everything, it's like, ugh, it takes forever.

00:51:13 ◼   ► It's not fun. The reason why I'm using Airmail on every device now is that it's got the features

00:51:21 ◼   ► that I need that other apps don't have. It's very simple. It's got to-do integration, and

00:51:27 ◼   ► and new in this version is also on the iPad, so I can use it everywhere.

00:51:31 ◼   ► And for me, one of the most important features is I can create saved searches.

00:51:39 ◼   ► So I've always been a fan of smart folders on the Mac.

00:51:44 ◼   ► I always need to access messages from either some people or with a specific subject

00:51:55 ◼   ► or sent to an address by another specific address, and the only way to do that is to

00:52:02 ◼   ► use saved searches.

00:52:04 ◼   ► And Airmail now lets me do that, and they sync with iCloud, so it's not like I need

00:52:08 ◼   ► to recreate them every time.

00:52:10 ◼   ► And at this point, Airmail is the best email client for me.

00:52:16 ◼   ► I perfectly understand why other people are happy with Outlook, which is excellent, let

00:52:21 ◼   ► I mean, it's a fantastic app, but it's just, I feel like Air Mail is a little more geeky,

00:52:28 ◼   ► maybe more in line with what I like.

00:52:32 ◼   ► One of the issues with Air Mail is that it's still not perfectly polished.

00:52:37 ◼   ► It's got still some visual bugs, some odd behaviors here and there.

00:52:41 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure Steven has found them too.

00:52:45 ◼   ► Still needs to be a little more polished, but, you know, I can live with it for now.

00:52:51 ◼   ► So it's the only email app I have on my devices at this point.

00:52:57 ◼   ► The big thing for me with this is I've kind of come to a place where I would have liked

00:53:03 ◼   ► features that Mail.app doesn't have.

00:53:05 ◼   ► And I've used Mail.app since, I don't know, like 10.2, I mean for a long time.

00:53:10 ◼   ► And the big one being snoozing.

00:53:13 ◼   ► But what I'm struggling with, so I use Google Apps for my Relay email, for my 512 email,

00:53:20 ◼   ► then I use Gmail for my personal email. And what I've always struggled with with

00:53:25 ◼   ► Gmail setup is the all mail folder. So if you're in Gmail on the web you can just

00:53:31 ◼   ► search for anything and it finds it because it's actually storing everything

00:53:34 ◼   ► not only in your labels but also in your your all mail folder. So in my Relay

00:53:42 ◼   ► account for instance I've got a folder for connected and a folder for liftoff

00:53:46 ◼   ► and I keep things the feedback email gets filtered there automatically you

00:53:52 ◼   ► know any scheduling or topic emails I store in there and what I've done in

00:53:57 ◼   ► mail for years is I've created you know basically some specific folders and then

00:54:03 ◼   ► like I have one called relay archive or anything that I want to keep but it's

00:54:07 ◼   ► not necessarily so specific goes in there and and that's fine until you use

00:54:13 ◼   ► a mail program like airmail that wants to archive stuff. And you can do that in mail,

00:54:19 ◼   ► but it's easy to get around. But the idea that you can push a button or a keystroke

00:54:23 ◼   ► and archive your mail is nice. But to do that sort of well, airmail wants to use the all

00:54:29 ◼   ► mail folder. And like I said, I struggle with that because it's sort of a mix of everything.

00:54:35 ◼   ► And so if I go into my all mail for my main Gmail account, you know, there's sitmail in

00:54:40 ◼   ► there's mail that's been archived in the past it's like it's a little bit messy

00:54:43 ◼   ► and it's fine if you're using search online to get through this but search

00:54:48 ◼   ► in airmail isn't as good as what Google's doing on the server side and so

00:54:53 ◼   ► that's just a period of adjustment for me of like turning off those old archive

00:54:58 ◼   ► folders and the kind of getting in the habit that things are just going to be

00:55:01 ◼   ► in all mail now I've got to search for them but I think I'll get there because

00:55:05 ◼   ► I like the features of airmail like you said it's a little weird in places

00:55:08 ◼   ► especially on the Mac there's some pretty rough edges in places but it's

00:55:12 ◼   ► really nice on the iPhone it's pretty good on the iPad so I'm I'm kind of

00:55:17 ◼   ► jumping in with both feet changing the way my email works a little bit if I go

00:55:20 ◼   ► back to mail.app I'll I guess I'll figure that out but for now at least I'm

00:55:25 ◼   ► pretty happy with it so. Steven wouldn't labels do what you need? Well they do but

00:55:31 ◼   ► the big thing is if I want to archive with a swipe or archive with a with a

00:55:37 ◼   ► keyboard shortcut it best I can tell

00:55:40 ◼   ► airmail does a really not good job at

00:55:44 ◼   ► like some members have used you can set

00:55:49 ◼   ► an archive folder manually you can do

00:55:51 ◼   ► that in mail.app to a degree so I could

00:55:54 ◼   ► say if I get it something in my inbox

00:55:57 ◼   ► and really I want to archive it don't go

00:55:58 ◼   ► in all mail just go in the relay archive

00:56:01 ◼   ► folder or label and airmail works

00:56:05 ◼   ► basically the way Gmail does where it,

00:56:07 ◼   ► Gmail really doesn't want you to use labels, you can.

00:56:09 ◼   ► They're a superset of everything that's in all mail.

00:56:12 ◼   ► So it's in your big archive and it's just labeled out.

00:56:15 ◼   ► So really the issue is the shortcuts,

00:56:17 ◼   ► the swipe to archive can't be mapped to a folder.

00:56:21 ◼   ► And so that's kind of where my hangup is.

00:56:24 ◼   ► And it's minor and it may only be my problem,

00:56:26 ◼   ► but I guess we'll see how that goes.

00:56:29 ◼   ► - This feels like one of those things

00:56:30 ◼   ► that you have to find a way around permanently, right?

00:56:33 ◼   ► Like it just feels like you've got a very specific thing

00:56:36 ◼   ► that is tied to one application.

00:56:38 ◼   ► You know, this is how I was with mailbox, right?

00:56:40 ◼   ► Like I had a bunch of things that I liked mailbox for,

00:56:43 ◼   ► and then when that went away,

00:56:44 ◼   ► I had to just decide that I'm gonna drop

00:56:46 ◼   ► the way that I manage email in that regard

00:56:48 ◼   ► and manage it differently.

00:56:50 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Because you've kind of,

00:56:51 ◼   ► I think you've gotta really try and approach these things

00:56:53 ◼   ► from the most simple way, right?

00:56:56 ◼   ► Because the protocol's so open

00:56:58 ◼   ► and so many people manipulate it in their own way

00:57:00 ◼   ► to do their own things in their own apps.

00:57:02 ◼   ► And the chat room is pointing out you can map your all mail folder to another folder in airmail.

00:57:09 ◼   ► What I have come across is that works great on iOS, but the Mac app won't respect where the message is supposed to go.

00:57:18 ◼   ► And so if I told my relay account, say, hey, don't use all mail, use relay archive.

00:57:23 ◼   ► And if I swipe over to archive, it goes to the right folder.

00:57:28 ◼   ► folder but if you're on the Mac it doesn't it just disappears into all mail

00:57:32 ◼   ► so that may be that it's a bug in air mail for the Mac but um I am coming

00:57:40 ◼   ► around to kind of realizing that especially as Gmail moves further away

00:57:46 ◼   ► from like standard IMAP and you know they've said they're gonna be doing

00:57:50 ◼   ► their own thing more and more that it's probably time to get on board with how

00:57:54 ◼   ► Gmail does things it's just a learning curve for me because I've done it my

00:57:57 ◼   ► own way for such a long time. Now saying about the Mac app is an interesting

00:58:03 ◼   ► point. I mean I noticed this when I was using the Air Mail iPhone app as well.

00:58:07 ◼   ► When that originally came out it felt like there were a lot of features that

00:58:11 ◼   ► weren't in parity between the versions. Now I'm assuming Steven that you have

00:58:17 ◼   ► you used the Air Mail Mac app any? Yeah I've got it open right now. So I mean

00:58:22 ◼   ► because I assume that Federico's not using it.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Is that still the case?

00:58:27 ◼   ► I mean, are the apps still doing things

00:58:29 ◼   ► that are kind of different to each other

00:58:31 ◼   ► or are they starting to align that more?

00:58:33 ◼   ► - They're starting to align more.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Like if you go into settings on iOS and the Mac,

00:58:37 ◼   ► for the most part, things are the same.

00:58:40 ◼   ► When the iOS beta started, they were crazy different.

00:58:43 ◼   ► And they've been bringing them closer together.

00:58:46 ◼   ► There were definitely things about Airmen on the Mac

00:58:49 ◼   ► that don't feel native to OS X.

00:58:51 ◼   ► like, you know, not that it's a flash app or anything, but like, some of its UI

00:58:56 ◼   ► paradigms and the way some things work just doesn't feel quite right on the Mac.

00:59:02 ◼   ► But I do think that all in all, they are definitely closer than they were. And

00:59:06 ◼   ► from being on the iOS beta, at least this is a company that is making big, like,

00:59:15 ◼   ► leaps and bounds and progress and short amount of time. And I tried airmail when

00:59:21 ◼   ► that first came out like years ago, a couple years ago,

00:59:24 ◼   ► and Air Mail 2 on the Mac is drastically better.

00:59:26 ◼   ► And so I have faith that even though this is a,

00:59:30 ◼   ► you know, it's not a Microsoft, right,

00:59:32 ◼   ► it's a smaller company,

00:59:33 ◼   ► that they're gonna be able to get this right

00:59:35 ◼   ► and move forward pretty quickly.

00:59:37 ◼   ► - So Federico, when you originally reviewed Air Mail,

00:59:41 ◼   ► I think the way that you kind of left it was,

00:59:45 ◼   ► this app has got some room to grow,

00:59:48 ◼   ► but there are bugs in it,

00:59:49 ◼   ► which mean I don't want anything to do with it basically.

00:59:52 ◼   ► What's changed?

00:59:54 ◼   ► - Well, the most problematic bugs got fixed.

00:59:58 ◼   ► Like in the first version of airmail,

01:00:00 ◼   ► I was getting some crazy stuff,

01:00:03 ◼   ► like not being able to send messages

01:00:06 ◼   ► or quoting the wrong part of a message sometimes,

01:00:11 ◼   ► problems with signatures.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Now I'm not getting those like showstoppers anymore.

01:00:17 ◼   ► It's just sometimes a transition in the interface gets stuck, or there's a scrolling problem

01:00:26 ◼   ► but nothing major that compromises the way that I can manage or send email.

01:00:32 ◼   ► So there's a lot of bug fixes since version 1.0.

01:00:37 ◼   ► And the only thing left is I guess a little more polish for the animations, for the way

01:00:43 ◼   ► that you can select text but it's minor issues compared to what it used to be in the first version.

01:00:51 ◼   ► Okay, last thing that I'm interested about on this is read receipts. Now I know in the past

01:00:58 ◼   ► that you've been a little bit uncomfortable about read receipts. I still am, I don't like them.

01:01:03 ◼   ► So how do you feel about them being an emo? You still not think they're a good thing?

01:01:09 ◼   ► And why do you think they're a bad thing?

01:01:12 ◼   ► I don't think it's a good idea because it fundamentally changes the social behavior

01:01:18 ◼   ► of email.

01:01:21 ◼   ► By turning, and this is something that I covered in last night's review, those types of features

01:01:31 ◼   ► turning email into something like messaging, it alters the very nature of email. And by

01:01:40 ◼   ► having the ability to see if someone has read your message, at least for me it increases

01:01:48 ◼   ► the pressure, the social pressure, in having to, well, one, feel bad about knowing that

01:01:55 ◼   ► the other person knows I've read their message but I'm not replying to it. And the second

01:02:01 ◼   ► is I now I feel obligated to send a reply. Whereas with traditional email there's the

01:02:10 ◼   ► there's a thin veil I guess of knowing and not knowing that the other person has read

01:02:15 ◼   ► or not read your message. It's kind of like Schrodinger's email in a way. Once you send

01:02:21 ◼   ► an email it's both read or not read usually.

01:02:24 ◼   ► But the thing that make email read receipts different is you still don't know though.

01:02:30 ◼   ► What? You still?

01:02:31 ◼   ► You as the recipient of the email don't know that a read receipt has been added to that

01:02:35 ◼   ► email. Oh that's even worse.

01:02:37 ◼   ► No but I mean so like the pressure that you're feeling doesn't exist because you don't know.

01:02:41 ◼   ► Yeah but now I can just assume that everyone knows.

01:02:44 ◼   ► Then you've never worked in a corporation my friend because this is very normal in big

01:02:47 ◼   ► companies. I never have in fact and I never will.

01:02:50 ◼   ► I know, but like, and I get what you're saying, but this is a very normal practice, which

01:02:55 ◼   ► is why you're seeing it in these email apps now.

01:02:58 ◼   ► Corporations are not normal.

01:03:00 ◼   ► Well, there's a different kind of normal, man.

01:03:03 ◼   ► It's more normal than what me and you do, I say that.

01:03:06 ◼   ► I just say, if you give someone an iPhone and you use the mail app, there's no read

01:03:11 ◼   ► receipt.

01:03:13 ◼   ► And I struggle to see Apple adding read receipts anytime soon.

01:03:17 ◼   ► I wonder if it's different with Exchange support.

01:03:19 ◼   ► I don't know if it is.

01:03:21 ◼   ► Might be.

01:03:22 ◼   ► I guess I've grown up thinking that email is this thing that you just write a letter

01:03:27 ◼   ► to someone and you send it out and whatever happens next, nobody knows.

01:03:32 ◼   ► And whereas, you know, in messages and like WhatsApp and these other messaging services,

01:03:40 ◼   ► it's more, you know, it's more personal maybe, it's more direct, it's faster and there's

01:03:46 ◼   ► And people just know that there's the ability to track the status of a message.

01:03:52 ◼   ► With email it's just weird, you know?

01:03:55 ◼   ► And now I feel like the airmail team doesn't particularly like it much.

01:04:02 ◼   ► It's off by default.

01:04:04 ◼   ► Of course there's a bunch of options to select whether you want it to be always on or to

01:04:11 ◼   ► be asked every time.

01:04:13 ◼   ► I just feel like it's maybe this is gonna sound completely wrong to people but to me

01:04:19 ◼   ► it sounds it seems a little desperate to want to know when someone has read your message

01:04:24 ◼   ► you know?

01:04:25 ◼   ► I think that in a corporate setting there makes I believe that there is a benefit to

01:04:32 ◼   ► having readers.

01:04:33 ◼   ► Because you want to know well Frank from accounting has read my message.

01:04:35 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:04:36 ◼   ► Okay.

01:04:37 ◼   ► And it's why like you know we talk about with with FreshBooks who's a sponsor of the show

01:04:43 ◼   ► they have a feature like this with their invoices,

01:04:46 ◼   ► you know it's been received, you know it's been opened,

01:04:47 ◼   ► there are benefits to it.

01:04:49 ◼   ► But I actually do agree with you

01:04:51 ◼   ► in that outside of a setting

01:04:54 ◼   ► where there is an explicit business relationship,

01:04:57 ◼   ► read receipts can get a little bit weird.

01:04:59 ◼   ► Because there isn't a consistency to it.

01:05:04 ◼   ► When you work within a corporate email system,

01:05:08 ◼   ► you understand that inside of that email system,

01:05:11 ◼   ► something like read receipts might occur, right?

01:05:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, of course. - But I think when you're

01:05:15 ◼   ► going out to the wider world,

01:05:18 ◼   ► it does get a little bit more tricky

01:05:19 ◼   ► because there's no consistency to it.

01:05:21 ◼   ► If Gmail had read receipts built in,

01:05:24 ◼   ► that might be different.

01:05:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, because you grew up thinking that it's possible,

01:05:30 ◼   ► and it's just strange to apply what makes sense

01:05:34 ◼   ► in a corporate environment to other people.

01:05:37 ◼   ► And especially for me, for the website,

01:05:39 ◼   ► It becomes, I feel bad about not having time for everyone.

01:05:44 ◼   ► And I struggle with this a lot,

01:05:47 ◼   ► because I feel so lucky to do what I do.

01:05:51 ◼   ► And like at a very personal level,

01:05:55 ◼   ► I wish I had the time to reply to every single tweet,

01:05:59 ◼   ► to reply to every single email,

01:06:01 ◼   ► to reply to every single message that I get from people.

01:06:04 ◼   ► And I feel so bad because those people,

01:06:07 ◼   ► they spend their actual time writing you an email or writing you a tweet.

01:06:12 ◼   ► I mean, nobody's telling them to follow me, nobody's telling them to send me a message,

01:06:16 ◼   ► and I feel like a jerk every time that I don't have the time to reply to those people.

01:06:21 ◼   ► And I try to justify that behavior to myself by saying, if I spend my days replying to email

01:06:28 ◼   ► and replying to tweets and messages, I wouldn't do what those people came to know me for in the

01:06:34 ◼   ► the first place. But I still feel bad. And now that there's this read-receive-setting

01:06:40 ◼   ► trend going on, I feel bad knowing that even more people can assume that I'm a jerk.

01:06:45 ◼   ► Well, in fact, I don't think I'm a jerk. I think I'm a nice guy. I just need to write,

01:06:51 ◼   ► otherwise I would be a support person or a community manager, you know? So it's the

01:06:56 ◼   ► kind of option that, at a very intimate level, I guess, makes me feel bad about not having

01:07:04 ◼   ► the time for everyone. I wish I had the time for everyone, but I don't. And that's both

01:07:10 ◼   ► awesome, but also kinda sad and it makes me feel bad. I don't know if that makes any sense

01:07:16 ◼   ► to you guys, but it's what I feel and why I have maybe strong words about this setting.

01:07:24 ◼   ► I get it. I get it. I completely get what you're saying. We've gone a little into the

01:07:30 ◼   ► but overall, 'cause I mean, I don't wanna end this

01:07:33 ◼   ► on like you being upset.

01:07:36 ◼   ► - No, I'm not upset. - Because overall,

01:07:37 ◼   ► you obviously like Air Mail enough.

01:07:39 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, it's awesome. - To make it your app now.

01:07:42 ◼   ► So I just want, I basically just wanted to come back

01:07:44 ◼   ► and underscore that point.

01:07:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, absolutely. - This is something

01:07:47 ◼   ► you don't like, it's a trend you don't like

01:07:49 ◼   ► that Air Mail is taken part of,

01:07:51 ◼   ► but overall, you are a big fan of this application

01:07:55 ◼   ► and I'm gonna give it another go.

01:07:57 ◼   ► I'm having an issue on Air Mail for Mac right now,

01:07:59 ◼   ► which I've been through with the support team.

01:08:01 ◼   ► Like for example, I'll just tell you what it is.

01:08:03 ◼   ► It doesn't open.

01:08:03 ◼   ► Every time it opens, it crashes.

01:08:05 ◼   ► - Oh, okay. - That's fine.

01:08:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, and they've said to me,

01:08:07 ◼   ► blow away the preferences, I've done all of that,

01:08:09 ◼   ► and as soon as I have my email accounts back again,

01:08:12 ◼   ► it dies again.

01:08:13 ◼   ► So I need to work on that,

01:08:14 ◼   ► but I'm willing to give it another shot,

01:08:17 ◼   ► but I don't, I really, really like Outlook.

01:08:20 ◼   ► So I'm not sure that I would.

01:08:22 ◼   ► - I feel like when I said basic before about Outlook,

01:08:27 ◼   ► a lot of people saw, at least in the chat room,

01:08:29 ◼   ► saw that as me throwing shade. I mean, by basic I meant if you're looking for an alternative

01:08:36 ◼   ► to Apple Mail, the first stop you gotta try is Outlook. So that was poorly worded on my

01:08:43 ◼   ► end. I feel like it's the premier free alternative to Apple Mail. So, you don't want to use Apple

01:08:51 ◼   ► Mail, the first thing you gotta try is Outlook. And the way that I see Air Mail and maybe

01:08:57 ◼   ► Spark and... but especially Hermel, is that if you use a lot of third-party app integrations

01:09:03 ◼   ► or you want to have safe searches, those are two big features for me.

01:09:11 ◼   ► Third-party app support and the smart folders.

01:09:14 ◼   ► Because it's totally in line with the way that I like to do email.

01:09:17 ◼   ► So that's the reason why I'm using Hermel now.

01:09:22 ◼   ► I'm gonna give it, I'm gonna read over your review

01:09:24 ◼   ► in more detail and give it a shot, I think.

01:09:26 ◼   ► But yeah, there's something to check out

01:09:29 ◼   ► and it's interesting to see,

01:09:31 ◼   ► it's interesting to see how much development

01:09:33 ◼   ► there is in email clients right now,

01:09:34 ◼   ► which is a cool thing.

01:09:36 ◼   ► All right, this week's episode is also brought to you by Arc.

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01:09:49 ◼   ► of a well-rounded backup strategy.

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01:10:33 ◼   ► backup to your AWS or Google Cloud Storage account. You can even backup to a local device

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01:11:57 ◼   ► sponsoring this week's episode. Alright so we have something special to round out this

01:12:03 ◼   ► week's episode. Stephen can you tell our lovely listeners what you've done for them?

01:12:11 ◼   ► bet so the Henry Ford Museum is a museum here in the United States that really

01:12:18 ◼   ► focuses on innovation and so obviously the Henry Ford name is associated with

01:12:25 ◼   ► with cars and they do have a car collection but the Henry Ford also has

01:12:29 ◼   ► things like you know other types of inventions a lot of things with early

01:12:34 ◼   ► phones early cameras and relevant to this show in my interest early computers

01:12:39 ◼   ► And so I got an opportunity last week to interview

01:12:43 ◼   ► their curator over technology and

01:12:47 ◼   ► It was a great interview

01:12:50 ◼   ► The woman's name is Kristen Gallardo and we had a great time talking about the museum's

01:12:56 ◼   ► Apple one and the Apple one turned 40 this week and

01:13:00 ◼   ► So this was sort of in conjunction with that anniversary. They have put their Apple one out

01:13:06 ◼   ► For display for a short period of time. So if you're in the Michigan area, you should go see it

01:13:11 ◼   ► but she and I sat down and talked for about 15 minutes about the Apple one about why it's an important computer and

01:13:17 ◼   ► really

01:13:19 ◼   ► how

01:13:20 ◼   ► Apple

01:13:22 ◼   ► sparked off the

01:13:24 ◼   ► You know personal computer revolution really and so the we have some audio for you

01:13:30 ◼   ► We're gonna play there's a transcript with like annotated notes and links over on 512 pixels

01:13:36 ◼   ► We'll put a link in the show notes to that along with a bunch of links.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Kristen's been doing a lot of YouTube videos with the Apple One, a bunch of fun stuff.

01:13:44 ◼   ► So there's a lot of stuff to go check out.

01:13:46 ◼   ► And it was real honored to get to talk to her and hope you enjoy the interview.

01:13:50 ◼   ► Kristen, who are you and what do you do?

01:13:53 ◼   ► My name is Kristen Gallerneau and I'm the curator of communications and information

01:13:57 ◼   ► technology at the Henry Ford Museum.

01:13:59 ◼   ► So I take care of things like computers, also things like radios, televisions, things that

01:14:05 ◼   ► have tubes and transistors. Definitely those are all in my

01:14:08 ◼   ► collections.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And the the Henry Ford Museum best I can tell is really built

01:14:13 ◼   ► around American innovation and technology. Is that a fair way

01:14:17 ◼   ► to some some your work up?

01:14:19 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely fair. We're very big on the ideas of

01:14:22 ◼   ► innovation and ingenuity resourcefulness. So a lot of

01:14:26 ◼   ► people think that we're just a car museum and we do have a lot

01:14:29 ◼   ► of really great cars. We're obviously invested in automotive

01:14:32 ◼   ► history because of our founder. But we have very large

01:14:36 ◼   ► collections of technology and design and domestic life and

01:14:40 ◼   ► public life. So it's a really, you know, it's a wide range of

01:14:44 ◼   ► materials we have here.

01:14:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I think, you know, it's producing the website looking at

01:14:48 ◼   ► the collections and something that struck me and I'm sort of

01:14:51 ◼   ► self proclaimed, you know, Apple historian, but I think a lot of

01:14:54 ◼   ► people don't realize just how much of what we have today in

01:14:57 ◼   ► terms of technology, sort of got started on American soil.

01:15:00 ◼   ► Yeah, definitely. One of my favorite moments on the museum floor is we have this large case,

01:15:07 ◼   ► a museum case full of telephones. And there's probably about an array of about 50 different

01:15:12 ◼   ► telephones within that case. And of course, a lot of those started out from, you know,

01:15:16 ◼   ► American innovation development. We have early, you know, 19th century Bell telephones in there,

01:15:21 ◼   ► and then it leads all the way up into an iPhone. So through those arrays of objects like that,

01:15:27 ◼   ► you know it's it's really interesting because you really get to see the way

01:15:31 ◼   ► that technology has sort of condensed back down upon itself.

01:15:36 ◼   ► Yeah I think I think you see those big timelines stuff it's sort of mind-blowing

01:15:40 ◼   ► that we call you know what's in my pocket a phone.

01:15:43 ◼   ► Yeah exactly. It's a television, it's a radio.

01:15:48 ◼   ► Exactly. Yeah. You know yeah we actually have a telephone in that same case that

01:15:51 ◼   ► it's sitting pretty near the iPhone and it's really interesting because it's a

01:15:55 ◼   ► a card dial or telephone. So it was an early speed dial telephone that really worked off

01:15:59 ◼   ► the same principles of something like a Jacquard weaving loom. So you get to those big, I know

01:16:05 ◼   ► this is an Apple program but let's go IBM for a minute. If we go to like an IBM 360

01:16:10 ◼   ► or something that takes punch card technology, there was a telephone that used that too.

01:16:16 ◼   ► So really I always tell people we've kind of reached the Kodak brownie moment in computing

01:16:22 ◼   ► which is basically, you know, their motto was you push the button, we do the rest, which

01:16:27 ◼   ► is to say that, you know, a lot of the processes behind technology have really become invisible

01:16:31 ◼   ► and mysterious to us. And I think I'm okay with that, actually. But it's interesting

01:16:36 ◼   ► to think about them once in a while.

01:16:37 ◼   ► Yeah. And of course, we've seen the same thing, right? And talking about computers, where

01:16:44 ◼   ► started out big mechanical objects, right? Actually, we call them machines now, but they

01:16:51 ◼   ► were actual physical machines. Oh yeah. And then we moved through you know the

01:16:56 ◼   ► time that that I find really fascinating of the the time of the high priest in

01:17:01 ◼   ► the punch card where you are removed from your computing experience right you

01:17:05 ◼   ► kind of come back and see the results and that's really kind of where Apple

01:17:10 ◼   ► enters the scene right so kind of what we're getting to today is that you guys

01:17:16 ◼   ► have one of the last remaining known Apple ones tell me a little bit about

01:17:21 ◼   ► about that computer, kind of what was the world like

01:17:23 ◼   ► when it showed up?

01:17:25 ◼   ► - Well, really, it's interesting to kind of backtrack

01:17:29 ◼   ► for a minute to about a year before it actually came

01:17:32 ◼   ► into the world, which was in March of '75,

01:17:35 ◼   ► which is really the seeds of the beginning

01:17:38 ◼   ► of the Homebrew Computer Club,

01:17:39 ◼   ► which is where it really got its start

01:17:40 ◼   ► in this garage in Menlo Park.

01:17:42 ◼   ► And there's a lot of writing out there on the web

01:17:45 ◼   ► debunking the myth of the garage in Silicon Valley.

01:17:49 ◼   ► But you know, the homebrew actually did get its start in a garage for the first few meetings,

01:17:52 ◼   ► at least.

01:17:53 ◼   ► And Steve Wozniak had a technical problem he was trying to solve.

01:17:58 ◼   ► And one of his friends who was working with that Hewlett Packard at the time told him,

01:18:02 ◼   ► you know, you should really go to this meeting.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And he was apparently a very, you know, shy guy.

01:18:06 ◼   ► And with a bit of sort of cajoling, he did, he did eventually go.

01:18:11 ◼   ► And when he got there, he was just so inspired by the environment that was there.

01:18:16 ◼   ► I've read a lot about how competitive it was and read oral histories and things and

01:18:21 ◼   ► this seems to hold true.

01:18:23 ◼   ► It was out of going to that first meeting really that the seeds for the Apple 1, sorry

01:18:28 ◼   ► that's kind of cheesy but they were planted.

01:18:32 ◼   ► He had developed computers before that but this is really the beginning of the Apple

01:18:37 ◼   ► 1.

01:18:39 ◼   ► So the Apple 1 that we have is one of the first 50 that was ever made.

01:18:45 ◼   ► They're apparently about 200 or so sold and the location today of about 46 of those 200

01:18:52 ◼   ► are known.

01:18:54 ◼   ► But what's really special about ours is it's one of the first 50 Apple I computers ever

01:18:58 ◼   ► sold and out of that batch of first 50, about nine of that batch are known to work and ours

01:19:05 ◼   ► works.

01:19:06 ◼   ► It's completely unmodified.

01:19:07 ◼   ► It has all of its original chips, fully operational and I know this because I actually got to

01:19:11 ◼   ► – this is a great perk of the job.

01:19:13 ◼   ► actually got to learn how to program basic on it. Very cool.

01:19:16 ◼   ► And I think for people who aren't familiar with it, you

01:19:20 ◼   ► know, this is not really a computer in the sense that we

01:19:22 ◼   ► think about one now, right? This is really just a board.

01:19:26 ◼   ► Exactly. Yeah, when you bought an Apple one computer, really,

01:19:29 ◼   ► what you were buying was the motherboard. So you had to buy a

01:19:33 ◼   ► monitor, you had to buy a keyboard, even had to buy a

01:19:35 ◼   ► power supply for the thing. And the first few Apple ones that

01:19:39 ◼   ► were sold, those actually didn't even come with a tape drive

01:19:42 ◼   ► interface. And the benefit of this tape drive interface was that you didn't actually have

01:19:46 ◼   ► to type in the basic program from scratch, you could load it in from memory off of this

01:19:51 ◼   ► tape, because you can just flick this thing on and then you know, just interact with it

01:19:56 ◼   ► or play a video game or whatever. It was a very bare bones thing. And, you know, there

01:20:02 ◼   ► is a funny story about Paul Terrell, who was the owner of the byte shop where these computers

01:20:06 ◼   ► were first sold. And he was really disappointed when Steve Jobs showed up with this sort of

01:20:11 ◼   ► cardboard box full of Apple one motherboards is like wait what I paid you guys, you know to sell me computers. What are these?

01:20:18 ◼   ► So really they were they were kind of a naked sort of object in their own way. They didn't even have a case

01:20:24 ◼   ► But there's something really special in that, you know

01:20:27 ◼   ► And that's one of the reasons why we really love our Apple one and why we you know

01:20:32 ◼   ► Really went to bat for getting this thing here is because you can see its workings, you know, it's exposed. It's not hidden in a case

01:20:40 ◼   ► Right. I saw one in Atlanta a few years ago, and I was really struck by that just how

01:20:45 ◼   ► There's nothing else

01:20:47 ◼   ► So everything else has been you know

01:20:49 ◼   ► It's not really stripped away because it hasn't existed yet and compared to something like the Apple - which of course

01:20:53 ◼   ► their stories about Steve Jobs running around

01:20:56 ◼   ► You know yelling about the creases in the plastic, right?

01:21:00 ◼   ► put in the case and have the keyboard built in and you never get an apple - actually here on my desk and and

01:21:05 ◼   ► Even though it is an antique in every way it still

01:21:09 ◼   ► Sort of looks like a computer right it's approachable and I think that's one of the things that made

01:21:14 ◼   ► Apple in particular so fascinating right that they they moved very quickly from this Apple one

01:21:21 ◼   ► Into something that was more consumer friendly and of course, you know the rest is history. But yeah, what?

01:21:27 ◼   ► What do you think the legacy of the Apple one is today?

01:21:32 ◼   ► You know, it's really

01:21:34 ◼   ► hard as a museum curator to really

01:21:38 ◼   ► sort of be able to put your fist down on a table really hard.

01:21:40 ◼   ► I'm not going to slay my table here,

01:21:41 ◼   ► but I don't want to upset the microphone.

01:21:44 ◼   ► But it's really hard to get back to saying something like,

01:21:47 ◼   ► "No, this is the first."

01:21:50 ◼   ► This is really the beginning of something.

01:21:52 ◼   ► This is the beginning of a company that defines most,

01:21:58 ◼   ► I don't know what the percentages are of people who own smartphones,

01:22:01 ◼   ► but a large percentage of those people are Apple users.

01:22:05 ◼   ► And it's really just, you know, a colleague of mine, and I'll use his words here because

01:22:09 ◼   ► he might say it better than me, talks the other day about how technology really creeps

01:22:14 ◼   ► into our lives.

01:22:15 ◼   ► You know, so, you know, when iPad was released, for example, you know, we would think, you

01:22:21 ◼   ► know, what, what are we going to do with this?

01:22:23 ◼   ► What is, what is the use of a tablet?

01:22:25 ◼   ► But now it's like, you know, you go and you pick up your morning coffee and you're signing

01:22:29 ◼   ► with your finger on a square, you know, enabled tablet, and it's quite often an iPad, you

01:22:35 ◼   ► know, so it's, it's just everywhere. And, you know, as a company, you know, Steve Wozniak

01:22:42 ◼   ► and Steve Jobs in tandem, they worked together to really innovate in being, you know, just

01:22:50 ◼   ► this excellent duo in really in terms of history, you know, it's like we talk about the myth

01:22:56 ◼   ► of the lone genius. People, you know, sort of like hunched over their workshop tables,

01:23:01 ◼   ► poking away all night. And certainly, Wozniak did that with, you know, getting basic to

01:23:06 ◼   ► work on the Apple One. Certainly, Steve Jobs probably stayed up at night thinking about

01:23:11 ◼   ► those creases in the plastic on the Apple Two. But really, it's through the coalescence

01:23:16 ◼   ► of people and, you know, collaboration. And that's really evident in the history of Apple.

01:23:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's, I think that's exactly how I view it as well.

01:23:28 ◼   ► That it's, it's maybe not so much about this one particular computer, as fascinating as

01:23:33 ◼   ► it is, but it's the, it's the story that it kicks off, right?

01:23:36 ◼   ► Right.

01:23:37 ◼   ► The idea that, I think is very much at the heart of Apple, that technology can be approachable

01:23:44 ◼   ► by anyone, and to do so it needs to be well designed.

01:23:47 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:23:48 ◼   ► And it's very much a collective experience.

01:23:50 ◼   ► You know, it's kind of funny, the original logo for Apple, if you've ever looked at it,

01:23:54 ◼   ► you can search this on the internet.

01:23:56 ◼   ► It's sort of this very old school sort of pen and ink drawing, sitting under an apple

01:24:01 ◼   ► tree.

01:24:02 ◼   ► And the quote that sort of runs around that image is "a mind forever voyaging through

01:24:07 ◼   ► strange seas of thought alone," which is a Wordsworth quote.

01:24:10 ◼   ► And it's interesting because, you know, we think of, you know, using, you know, the internet

01:24:15 ◼   ► the way that we use the internet or the technology is sort of cutting us off for the world from

01:24:19 ◼   ► the world. But it also has this very connected sort of approach, which sounds very simplistic,

01:24:23 ◼   ► but you know, that's the power of this and the Apple one is sort of very much rooted in that

01:24:28 ◼   ► history. Absolutely. So what are the plans for y'all's Apple one? So it's going to be out

01:24:35 ◼   ► temporarily on view from April 11, until the end of the month. So that's April 30. After that time,

01:24:43 ◼   ► it will go away for a while. We really wanted to get it out to celebrate the 40th anniversary of

01:24:50 ◼   ► the Apple One, which is April 11th. And then over the next few years, we've actually been building

01:24:56 ◼   ► out a large communications information technology exhibit that will open sometime around 2019. So

01:25:04 ◼   ► it's a ways off. But there are other ways for people to sort of learn about the Apple One,

01:25:09 ◼   ► even though it's not on the museum floor. We do a lot of things on our television show,

01:25:13 ◼   ► and you know I'm always writing blogs when it's appropriate and sort of posting videos and things

01:25:19 ◼   ► like this. So, but it will be on the floor permanently, eventually. Very cool. I know

01:25:25 ◼   ► just preparing for this and talking today I've learned a lot about it. So, we'll have all those

01:25:28 ◼   ► links for people to go to go check out and I guess thanks so much for your time today.

01:25:34 ◼   ► Yeah, no problem.

01:25:35 ◼   ► So I listened to the interview yesterday, Steven, and the first reaction that I had,

01:25:42 ◼   ► I mean it's a very awesome interview, but the first thing I thought was, this sounds

01:25:47 ◼   ► like a pretty awesome job, and it feels like a type of career you should pursue in the

01:25:53 ◼   ► future maybe. Being a tech museum curator, I mean it's awesome, generally awesome.

01:25:59 ◼   ► This is what Steven can do when he retires. You can go and take your IMAX, you put them

01:26:05 ◼   ► in a truck somewhere and you open up a museum of your own. It's beautiful.

01:26:10 ◼   ► Yeah, it was a lot of fun to talk to Kristen. She and I really hit it off and she's super

01:26:15 ◼   ► passionate about not only the Apple One, but I think you can hear it in the interview,

01:26:19 ◼   ► just the way that technology has evolved and the importance of understanding where we come

01:26:24 ◼   ► from and so I was super pumped to do it super honored that they asked me and I

01:26:29 ◼   ► hope that people enjoyed it so thank you to Kristin and the Henry Ford Museum.

01:26:34 ◼   ► The first step towards your future career Steven. It all started with an interview.

01:26:41 ◼   ► That brings us to the end of this week's episode again yeah thank you to Kristin

01:26:47 ◼   ► Galanor and the Henry Ford Museum for giving their time for this week's show

01:26:50 ◼   ► and we really hope that you enjoyed that thank you Steven for making that happen

01:26:53 ◼   ► and

01:27:14 ◼   ► here for you. If you want to find us online between now and then there's a few places

01:27:18 ◼   ► that you can go and do that. You can head on over to fivetowapixels.net for Stephen's

01:27:22 ◼   ► work. You can go to macstories.net for Federico and you can go to michaelswright.com if you

01:27:27 ◼   ► want to read anything that I've written. There's not many things so it probably wouldn't take

01:27:31 ◼   ► too long. You can find us all on Twitter as well. Stephen is @ismh, Federico is @Viti,

01:27:36 ◼   ► T-I-C-C-I and I am @imike. We'll be back next time. Thank you so much for listening. Until

01:27:43 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:27:45 ◼   ► Adímalerci.