Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode number 96.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Smile, Ministry of Supply, and Willing.com.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Myke Early and I'm joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Hello, Stephen Hackett.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Hello, what's left of Michael Hurley?

00:00:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I am sick. If you think I sound bad, Federico's not here. Imagine how he sounds.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I don't want to think about that.

00:00:30 ◼   ► We have like a combination of some kind of jet lag disorientation sickness and some kind

00:00:36 ◼   ► of cold flu combo.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Federico is in much worse shape than me so we're not going to make any dying jokes because

00:00:43 ◼   ► he's sick.

00:00:45 ◼   ► I love Federico and I hope he returns very soon.

00:00:49 ◼   ► That's all I have to say.

00:00:50 ◼   ► Thank you very much.

00:00:51 ◼   ► I was practicing that this morning.

00:00:54 ◼   ► We are back from WWDC.

00:00:56 ◼   ► is why we're sick because that's just what happens when you get on a plane for

00:01:00 ◼   ► nine hours. Everybody's lovely germs find their way into your body which is

00:01:05 ◼   ► awesome but we are we'd split apart again we were together at last last last

00:01:13 ◼   ► week which was really very nice wasn't it the three of us to be together for

00:01:16 ◼   ► the first time. It was we've been doing the show for a long time of course we

00:01:20 ◼   ► had the prompt that was before this and we've never the two of you guys have met

00:01:24 ◼   ► but really only just recently, it was my first time to meet Federico and it was a really

00:01:30 ◼   ► great week, it was really special to spend time with not just the two of you but with

00:01:36 ◼   ► the listeners and a bunch of other hosts and it was just really a really great week.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Yeah it was fantastic and I got a little bit emotional and I wrote a little thing about

00:01:47 ◼   ► how this past WWDC was so special for me and it was partly because of all the Relaycon

00:01:53 ◼   ► stuff and how we've kind of settled in now into kind of our role, I guess, in our little

00:02:00 ◼   ► corner of an industry that we have and how things have kind of adapted and grown for

00:02:07 ◼   ► us in the last year especially. It really kind of helped solidify a lot of that for

00:02:14 ◼   ► us to be able to put on an event that we had 150 people come to and many, many more on

00:02:19 ◼   ► waiting list and it was really nice and it went really well and thank you to everybody

00:02:23 ◼   ► that came, thank you to everybody that helped and also thank you to everyone that listened.

00:02:28 ◼   ► We really appreciate it.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:02:31 ◼   ► So, we want to talk a little bit about the app that you were using on stage, I think

00:02:38 ◼   ► we had a couple of questions about this.

00:02:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I meant to mention this but didn't get around to it.

00:02:45 ◼   ► I was trying to keep time of what kind of all the little segments that I had because

00:02:51 ◼   ► I knew I had multiple people and I knew I had specific amounts of time to keep with

00:02:56 ◼   ► them.

00:02:57 ◼   ► So I was using an app created by Joe Chaplinsky of release notes called Fin.

00:03:03 ◼   ► I'll put a link in the show notes.

00:03:05 ◼   ► It's at fintimer.com.

00:03:08 ◼   ► I really like that this is created by someone who understands time, right?

00:03:13 ◼   ► Because Joe does speaking and he does performing and it was a really good application.

00:03:18 ◼   ► It ran in split screen which is awesome.

00:03:21 ◼   ► Like if you've seen pictures of us, you may have seen I kind of had a split screen going

00:03:25 ◼   ► on.

00:03:26 ◼   ► Part of it was my notes app.

00:03:27 ◼   ► I was kind of keeping all of my notes and questions for the section in my notes app.

00:03:31 ◼   ► But then on the other side I had Finn running and what it allowed me to do is to set time

00:03:35 ◼   ► presets so I had like 15 and 20 minute blocks that I could choose from.

00:03:41 ◼   ► I could set custom time limits for the UI to change color. So I could start off black

00:03:48 ◼   ► and then it will change to green, amber and red. So you can kind of get an idea of how

00:03:55 ◼   ► long you have left because you know you set the time limits to the way that you want.

00:04:00 ◼   ► And what I really like to because the way that it ended up working out on stage for

00:04:03 ◼   ► me is those color changes would happen in my peripheral vision. So I knew where I was

00:04:09 ◼   ► in the time limit.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Just by having to read a number out.

00:04:13 ◼   ► I didn't even need to look at the screen, because I was only ever looking at the screen

00:04:17 ◼   ► when I wanted to be reminded of a question, but this was just happening in the corner

00:04:21 ◼   ► of my eye, and that way I could make sure how long I knew, and I could move around things

00:04:26 ◼   ► and cut some questions and stuff.

00:04:28 ◼   ► So it worked out really, really well for me.

00:04:30 ◼   ► If you do any kind of speaking or that kind of thing, or you have anything that should

00:04:34 ◼   ► be timed with you not having to pay too much attention, I would definitely go for this

00:04:41 ◼   ► app.

00:04:42 ◼   ► Finn by George Plinsky is awesome, so go check it out.

00:04:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I think so.

00:04:48 ◼   ► It was nice just to have something, I mean, even though I wasn't presenting, it was nice

00:04:51 ◼   ► to know just being on stage, like how much time Connected had left, and it's really a

00:04:56 ◼   ► solid little app.

00:04:57 ◼   ► Yeah, every time the color changed, people would look at the screen, like they had no

00:05:02 ◼   ► idea what I was doing right because I didn't tell anyone that I had this like

00:05:05 ◼   ► timer running the color would change and people be like what's going on over there

00:05:09 ◼   ► what are you doing? That was funny. So are you running any of the betas yet? Not yet just

00:05:18 ◼   ► because I haven't had the time to download and install iOS 10 I'm gonna

00:05:23 ◼   ► put it on my Air 2 because it's just an iPad that I have that I'm not using

00:05:29 ◼   ► that's kind of been turned off for a long time, just so I can get a feel for some of

00:05:33 ◼   ► the stuff that's going on. I know that I'm not going to get the benefit of a lot of the

00:05:38 ◼   ► 3D touch actions and things like that in Notification Center because they're currently, or maybe

00:05:42 ◼   ► always, we don't know, iPhone only. But I want to see kind of some of the UI stuff and

00:05:49 ◼   ► just get a feel for what's going on there, maybe send some silly messages to other people

00:05:52 ◼   ► that are running iOS 10 so I can just see all of that. I really want to install watchOS

00:05:59 ◼   ► 3 and we're going to talk about watchOS a little bit later on in the show but I really

00:06:03 ◼   ► don't want to put iOS 10 on my iPad right now. Agreed, yeah. I'm the same way, I'm

00:06:09 ◼   ► not willing to... I said iPad, I meant iPhone, sorry. Right, you haven't put the iOS beta

00:06:16 ◼   ► on your iPod Hi-Fi. I wish I could. I'm the same way I'm not running any of them

00:06:23 ◼   ► yet beta one is way too early for me I will at some point need to deal with the

00:06:28 ◼   ► Mac OS beta probably sooner rather than later but for me it's not worth the

00:06:33 ◼   ► instability yet. You could buy a MacBook adorable to put it on. I have had that

00:06:38 ◼   ► thought. I had ample opportunity last week to do that and I didn't. But yeah the same way

00:06:45 ◼   ► this is too early of course the public beta will be rolling out sometime next month

00:06:49 ◼   ► so that's a nice way usually by the public beta things are relatively

00:06:53 ◼   ► okay but

00:06:55 ◼   ► anytime there's a beta you're going to run into issues with

00:06:58 ◼   ► the OS, third party apps,

00:07:00 ◼   ► anything can be oddly broken at any time and

00:07:04 ◼   ► as I have grown

00:07:05 ◼   ► wiser and more mature I put

00:07:08 ◼   ► the betas on later and later.

00:07:10 ◼   ► Yeah I've always attended to in last

00:07:14 ◼   ► recent years to the betas around beta 4 on my carry devices.

00:07:20 ◼   ► The public beta might change this for me.

00:07:24 ◼   ► I want to see what the public beta looks like and then I might go for it on the phone.

00:07:29 ◼   ► But we'll see I haven't made my mind up yet.

00:07:32 ◼   ► The reports from people are saying that this is relatively stable as far as beta 1 goes

00:07:38 ◼   ► but I have no intention of putting beta 1 on my iPhone.

00:07:43 ◼   ► I'm probably going to put the beta on one of my iPads sooner rather than I usually would

00:07:49 ◼   ► because I kind of have a backup, right?

00:07:51 ◼   ► Like I'm running two of them, whilst I would prefer to have them both completely stable,

00:07:55 ◼   ► at least I could do it on a device that I'm using more regularly.

00:07:59 ◼   ► But I have to wait and see on that.

00:08:01 ◼   ► Maybe just having it on the Air 2 will be enough to kind of have my curiosity satiated.

00:08:09 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:08:10 ◼   ► I think that's fair.

00:08:12 ◼   ► i assume that when frederico recovers he's already started work on his uh...

00:08:16 ◼   ► i was ten review under that was part of the reason that he was in san francisco

00:08:21 ◼   ► uh... was to attend sessions the stuff and

00:08:23 ◼   ► i know that he was

00:08:24 ◼   ► getting the edge in the it should to do some work and i was watching him kind of

00:08:28 ◼   ► keep notes of old little features in the little things he was finding out something

00:08:32 ◼   ► went to look at so i know what the start for him

00:08:35 ◼   ► uh... you looking to do any kind of reviews this time i know that kind of

00:08:38 ◼   ► over the years

00:08:40 ◼   ► You've tended to do things in the Mac world but your...

00:08:44 ◼   ► the level of detail that you go into has changed. You've done full reviews,

00:08:48 ◼   ► you've done design reviews. Do you have any plans for Sierra?

00:08:52 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm gonna do a Sierra review.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I mean my reviews are nowhere near

00:08:57 ◼   ► what, say, Jon used to do on Ars Technica, but

00:09:00 ◼   ► I looked at the feature set and kind of

00:09:03 ◼   ► where this fits in with where the OS has been and where it's going.

00:09:07 ◼   ► I did do

00:09:08 ◼   ► Yosemite. I just did a design review that was really twofold. One, obviously the UI was

00:09:13 ◼   ► drastically different and so I really want to spend a lot of time on that and we had a

00:09:17 ◼   ► baby like two weeks before Yosemite was released. Not me and Steve and we. Yes, my

00:09:24 ◼   ► wife and I. So they were really, I didn't have the bandwidth to do a full review

00:09:29 ◼   ► that year. Yeah. But I do plan on having a Sierra review ready to go. I've already

00:09:35 ◼   ► started on a little bit which is why I need to

00:09:39 ◼   ► start spending some time with it.

00:09:41 ◼   ► But that's the plan. What about you, Myke? Are you going to be writing a WatchOS review?

00:09:44 ◼   ► Between the three of us we could cover

00:09:47 ◼   ► three of the four platforms. No, I'm writing extensive reviews on all the

00:09:50 ◼   ► platforms including tvOS.

00:09:52 ◼   ► Oh wow. Yeah, it's going to be pretty big.

00:09:55 ◼   ► I'm going for like twenty thousand words apiece so

00:09:58 ◼   ► we will have that to look out for. It's going to be real good. Can you imagine how many spelling errors I could

00:10:02 ◼   ► do in twenty thousand words?

00:10:04 ◼   ► It would be special.

00:10:05 ◼   ► About 19,000 words spelled incorrectly.

00:10:06 ◼   ► It would be amazing.

00:10:07 ◼   ► It would be special.

00:10:08 ◼   ► I am going to be reviewing nothing.

00:10:10 ◼   ► Absolutely zero.

00:10:11 ◼   ► I mean, I'll be doing audio reviews, I'm sure, as time goes on, but no, I'm not going to

00:10:16 ◼   ► be doing any kind of review.

00:10:17 ◼   ► That's not at all what I'm interested in doing.

00:10:21 ◼   ► This week's episode is brought to you by Ministry of Supply.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Look, we have to address something here.

00:10:28 ◼   ► We can't get around this.

00:10:29 ◼   ► Human sweat.

00:10:30 ◼   ► There's nothing we can do about it.

00:10:31 ◼   ► to put that out front as a claim before I can continue. We all know that we sweat. There's

00:10:36 ◼   ► nothing we can do about it. And very rarely does sweating take place at times that are

00:10:40 ◼   ► convenient for us. You're commuting, you're in a meeting, you know, times that you don't

00:10:44 ◼   ► want to be sweating tend to be times that we do. When we're in the gym or, you know,

00:10:49 ◼   ► we're maybe just hanging out on the weekend, we're wearing clothes that are designed to

00:10:53 ◼   ► handle this stuff a little bit better. But our work clothes, our shirts, our suits, things

00:10:57 ◼   ► that we wear all day every day, they do nothing to help. This is where Ministry of Supply

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00:11:14 ◼   ► II, and it's so stretchy and breathable, people have actually run marathons in it. This is

00:11:19 ◼   ► no joke. Ministry of Supplies' co-founder set a Guinness World Record for the fastest

00:11:23 ◼   ► half-marathon run in a suit, and of course he was wearing the Aviator II. Now Stephen,

00:11:28 ◼   ► I know that you use and wear lots of Ministry of Supply clothes.

00:11:34 ◼   ► I'm sure that you love them, right?

00:11:36 ◼   ► I do, absolutely.

00:11:37 ◼   ► I'm not a big dress shirt guy in my new indie life, but anytime I need to look fancy.

00:11:43 ◼   ► We had a fancy dinner at WWC and I busted out a Ministry of Supply shirt to show people

00:11:49 ◼   ► that I meant serious business.

00:11:51 ◼   ► I think it worked.

00:11:52 ◼   ► And you didn't want to get hot and sweaty either?

00:11:54 ◼   ► No, no one wants that.

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00:12:15 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Ministry of Supply for supporting this show and Relay FM.

00:12:19 ◼   ► So Federico might not be here today, which actually might make this more fun for me.

00:12:27 ◼   ► I had previously joked about when Federico got the 12.9 inch iPad for review in episode

00:12:33 ◼   ► 65.

00:12:34 ◼   ► I made a joke about how I thought that he would be using both iPads.

00:12:39 ◼   ► But then in episode 89, after I had bought my second iPad, so I bought the 9.7 inch iPad

00:12:46 ◼   ► Pro, I made a goal that within six months I would convince Federico to buy another iPad

00:12:54 ◼   ► and join me and Gray in the multi-pad life.

00:13:00 ◼   ► My goal for the next six months is to convince Federico to buy another iPad.

00:13:08 ◼   ► And it's happened.

00:13:09 ◼   ► We did it.

00:13:10 ◼   ► So we drove down to the Apple Campus in Cupertino and there's a store there and I think between

00:13:19 ◼   ► being bullied by you and Gray in the car ride and the wonder of being at One Infinite Loop,

00:13:26 ◼   ► he bought a small iPad Pro.

00:13:28 ◼   ► And he tweeted, there's a picture in the show notes marking the occasion in which #MykeWasRight

00:13:35 ◼   ► lived to see another day.

00:13:36 ◼   ► So the reason is there was a few things that led to this happening for Federico.

00:13:41 ◼   ► So when we were on the plane Federico was showing me some stuff like some of his workflow

00:13:45 ◼   ► stuff on his 12.9 inch iPad and as I was looking at it I was kind of just thinking hmm how

00:13:50 ◼   ► can I start my work here to convince him to buy the 9.7 because I was convinced that it

00:13:55 ◼   ► would be this trip in which I could make the case because I was only bringing my 9.7 with

00:13:59 ◼   ► me and it dawned on me.

00:14:01 ◼   ► I needed to show him the True Tone.

00:14:04 ◼   ► So I said to him, Federico, open notes.

00:14:06 ◼   ► So I asked him to open the Notes app.

00:14:08 ◼   ► And then I opened Notes app on mine.

00:14:10 ◼   ► I said, look at the difference between these.

00:14:12 ◼   ► And he was like, hmm.

00:14:13 ◼   ► And then I was like going into settings and turning True Tone on and off.

00:14:17 ◼   ► And then I was like, look at the icons on mine.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Look how bright and vivid these icons are.

00:14:22 ◼   ► By the end of the trip, I remember he was standing up.

00:14:24 ◼   ► This was at the end of the flight and he was grabbing his bag out of the overhead locker.

00:14:30 ◼   ► And he said to me, "How much do you think the 9.7 inch would be in the US?"

00:14:35 ◼   ► And I was like, "Aha!

00:14:36 ◼   ► I did it!"

00:14:37 ◼   ► Oh no!

00:14:38 ◼   ► I did it.

00:14:39 ◼   ► And then the combination of Grey and Marco, because Marco is like super in on the 9.7

00:14:44 ◼   ► inch now for travelling and stuff, but you know, me and Grey are in on it for everything.

00:14:49 ◼   ► That kind of convinced him to buy it.

00:14:51 ◼   ► I remember him saying to me, he brought an Air 2 with him to put the betas on.

00:14:56 ◼   ► And he was like, he said to me at one point, he was like, "I think the 9.7 inch will be

00:15:03 ◼   ► more powerful and be better for the beta."

00:15:06 ◼   ► And I'm like, "You're just trying to find excuses now, man.

00:15:09 ◼   ► We're in on this.

00:15:10 ◼   ► You've done it.

00:15:11 ◼   ► You have made the decision."

00:15:12 ◼   ► So we went to the company store and we bought him a 9.7 inch, much to Steven's dismay, as

00:15:19 ◼   ► you can see in the photo of all of us.

00:15:23 ◼   ► expression is not so much about his purchasing but just the hashtag living

00:15:29 ◼   ► on but um so I have a few a few thoughts about this not the multi-pad style

00:15:35 ◼   ► lifestyle I can't speak to that but in seeing you use your 9.7 Federico I think

00:15:41 ◼   ► basically using the 9.7 a lot on this trip the I've had some like increasing

00:15:48 ◼   ► friction with the 12.9 inch model I still really like it for multitasking and for

00:15:53 ◼   ► writing and it's great for watching video but where it really falls down for

00:15:59 ◼   ► me at least is like reading on the couch or reading in bed it's just too big and

00:16:04 ◼   ► I'm not going to run out and get a second iPad just to leave on the night

00:16:09 ◼   ► stand even though Gray was trying to talk me into that. I do have this

00:16:14 ◼   ► feeling that next time around I may end up back at the 9.7 inch just for like

00:16:21 ◼   ► more well-rounded use that since I don't use the iPad as my main computer the

00:16:27 ◼   ► size is like it's nice sometimes but it's also a big pain sometimes and that

00:16:33 ◼   ► maybe going back to that middle sizes is where I will end up long term I don't I

00:16:37 ◼   ► don't know but it's just kind of something I've been thinking about that

00:16:42 ◼   ► there are a lot of times where I want to use the iPad and it's the the big pro is

00:16:47 ◼   ► just too bulky or too large to use comfortably. I really think that the combination of the

00:16:54 ◼   ► two is the way to go. And I know that I've said this a bunch, but it made so much sense

00:16:58 ◼   ► to me on this trip. Like I bought the 9.7 and I could get practically everything that

00:17:02 ◼   ► I needed done on it. And I also was taking something light that could easily fit in the

00:17:07 ◼   ► backseat pocket of the plane and all that sort of stuff. It was nice. But then I come

00:17:11 ◼   ► home and I went in to watch some video and I whack out the 12.9 and watch it there. Or

00:17:15 ◼   ► know, like I'm going to be getting back into more serious work this week and that's where

00:17:19 ◼   ► the 12.9 really shines. But it does honestly feel to me like it's the Mac, the iPad that

00:17:25 ◼   ► stays at home rather than like the Mac that stays at home. Because I don't bring my iMac

00:17:30 ◼   ► with me when I go on trips, I would bring a MacBook or a MacBook Pro. And for me it's

00:17:34 ◼   ► the exact same thinking that leads to me having both of these iPads and loving them dearly.

00:17:38 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I totally get that. I think that's fair. You know, I think I would be more willing

00:17:44 ◼   ► to consider that if I was working on an

00:17:50 ◼   ► iPad even 50% of the time and the reality

00:17:53 ◼   ► is just that I'm not as good as the 12.9

00:17:57 ◼   ► is and I do a lot of writing like a lot

00:18:00 ◼   ► of writing on five-fold pixels comes

00:18:02 ◼   ► from the iPad but I'm not doing you know

00:18:05 ◼   ► relay administration work on the iPad I'm

00:18:08 ◼   ► not doing a lot of you know podcast

00:18:10 ◼   ► preparation or a lot of freelance stuff

00:18:13 ◼   ► on the iPad. And so, for me it's a little harder to justify currently, but I definitely

00:18:19 ◼   ► understand, like I don't mock you guys for it, I think that, well I do a little bit,

00:18:24 ◼   ► but you know I understand that like you're looking for the best tools for the job that

00:18:28 ◼   ► you need to get done and who am I to make fun of that?

00:18:31 ◼   ► Stephen Hackett. That's true.

00:18:35 ◼   ► We spoke a little bit last week at RelayCon about some of the macOS Sierra features, we

00:18:42 ◼   ► So I spoke about Siri and stuff a little bit.

00:18:44 ◼   ► But there were some things, and they are big things,

00:18:47 ◼   ► that were announced that we didn't really talk about.

00:18:49 ◼   ► And I wanted to get some of your thoughts on them.

00:18:52 ◼   ► So one of them being Apple Pay on the web.

00:18:55 ◼   ► Safari only, which frustrates me.

00:18:56 ◼   ► But this is kind of a big step, right?

00:18:59 ◼   ► Like it could make things easier.

00:19:01 ◼   ► I can see it really eating into PayPal.

00:19:05 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:06 ◼   ► The documentation calls it Safari-based websites,

00:19:09 ◼   ► which is sort of--

00:19:10 ◼   ► That frustrates me so much.

00:19:12 ◼   ► funny way to say that. I understand why they're doing it in Safari only, they can control

00:19:16 ◼   ► much more of that experience. Is that necessary though? It may be, I mean I am not deep enough

00:19:25 ◼   ► in this stuff to understand exactly what this JavaScript framework is doing. Yeah I would

00:19:29 ◼   ► love someone to write in and let me know why it's Safari only, so then we could follow

00:19:38 ◼   ► up on this next time but I would hope that there's a reason other than Apple wants people

00:19:42 ◼   ► to use Safari.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:19:45 ◼   ► So if you know that, please hit us up and we will include some follow up.

00:19:49 ◼   ► But I'm excited about it.

00:19:53 ◼   ► I don't get to use Apple Pay a ton of places in real life but it would be nice to use it

00:19:58 ◼   ► on the web just for that extra layer of security and I don't know if it's enough for me to

00:20:02 ◼   ► switch back to Safari.

00:20:04 ◼   ► I use Safari on iOS but on the Mac I use Chrome.

00:20:07 ◼   ► I think like the bulk of people but it's something to think about going forward that I don't

00:20:18 ◼   ► want to use a credit card just directly on a website if Apple pays an option.

00:20:22 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean and it will help because usually in those scenarios I'll use something like

00:20:26 ◼   ► PayPal.

00:20:28 ◼   ► Like if I don't want to put in a credit card and they have PayPal integration I'll use

00:20:31 ◼   ► that but I then still have to do all the login and all that kind of stuff and I would love

00:20:36 ◼   ► it more if I could just use Touch ID, you know, on my iPhone and buy it on my Mac, right?

00:20:42 ◼   ► Like, I like that integration. It's just another sign of Touch ID being on the next MacBooks,

00:20:48 ◼   ► right? Putting Apple Pay on the Mac. So, but yeah, I'm excited for that.

00:20:52 ◼   ► >> Yeah, that and Auto Unlock seemed to point to me that Touch ID is most definitely coming

00:20:58 ◼   ► to at least the MacBook Pro hardware and I don't know if...

00:21:03 ◼   ► But I like that they're finding a way to bring those features to everyone though.

00:21:07 ◼   ► That's really great.

00:21:08 ◼   ► Yeah, absolutely.

00:21:09 ◼   ► That doesn't feel very Apple, right?

00:21:10 ◼   ► Like to have, this is clearly going to be much nicer with a touch ID built in, but usually

00:21:17 ◼   ► they would put these kind of features in to push people towards the new hardware, but

00:21:21 ◼   ► it seems like that they are kind of making them backwards compatible, you could say,

00:21:24 ◼   ► with stuff that doesn't have a touch ID sensor in.

00:21:27 ◼   ► And I guess that shows that it's going to be a long time until everything can.

00:21:31 ◼   ► Yeah, you know that's an interesting point because in the background of last

00:21:35 ◼   ► week you know there have been this story that iMessages was going to come to

00:21:39 ◼   ► Android and of course they really revamped iMessage and it's still iOS and

00:21:43 ◼   ► Mac OS only. So I do think there's part there are some things that Apple still

00:21:48 ◼   ► uses as like a stick or a carrot depending on your point of view to get

00:21:54 ◼   ► people or to keep people in their hardware ecosystem but I think something

00:21:58 ◼   ► like Apple Pay is a little bit different because A) Apple makes a little bit of

00:22:04 ◼   ► money every time you use Apple Pay and that they are using it as a as a service

00:22:10 ◼   ► sort of in a different way than message like messages like a cloud service but

00:22:13 ◼   ► Apple Pay is like a life service and maybe they just view those things a

00:22:17 ◼   ► little bit differently and you know I think that Apple Pay is a long-term move

00:22:24 ◼   ► for Apple and it may be that we get to a point where messaging apps aren't the

00:22:27 ◼   ► hot thing and I don't know I think they're just treating it differently. I agree with

00:22:30 ◼   ► you it's an interesting change. It's one that I like. I wish messages was a little

00:22:35 ◼   ► more open but I'm glad that everybody's gonna get it and you know if it was just

00:22:40 ◼   ► you have to have Touch ID on your MacBook Pro to use this that'd be kind of lame

00:22:44 ◼   ► and then what if you know somebody like you who has an iMac and who you know

00:22:48 ◼   ► uses a desktop as their primary Mac system it's like well then you may never

00:22:52 ◼   ► get it unless they stick Touch ID somewhere on that so I think it's nice I

00:22:57 ◼   ► I think that it will, I think at least for me, when it's available I will definitely

00:23:02 ◼   ► take that option just like I do in a store if there's a little NFC reader I will always

00:23:06 ◼   ► use Apple Pay as opposed to running my debit card.

00:23:10 ◼   ► Something that I'm not so excited about because I run my iMac from a mobile hotspot connection

00:23:17 ◼   ► is iCloud Drive desktop and document syncing. What is this?

00:23:21 ◼   ► Thankfully you can turn it off.

00:23:23 ◼   ► Hooray!

00:23:23 ◼   ► So if you think about Dropbox conceptually being a folder in your home directory that

00:23:28 ◼   ► syncs to Dropbox's servers and then any other Dropbox client, this is basically doing the

00:23:34 ◼   ► same thing through iCloud Drive where it can be set up and it is optional to sync your

00:23:39 ◼   ► desktop and your documents folder to iCloud Drive.

00:23:43 ◼   ► Now the files remain in place, they still appear on your desktop.

00:23:47 ◼   ► So you know, if you go into finder, you do have an iCloud Drive directory, it's in your

00:23:52 ◼   ► sidebar and you can put stuff in there directly but this will actually sync

00:23:57 ◼   ► your desktop. So if I have say in your case Myke you have an iMac and a MacBook

00:24:01 ◼   ► Pro and you have a an mp3 on your desktop it will sync that mp3 to the

00:24:08 ◼   ► desktop of your other machine and vice versa and it's also available in the

00:24:14 ◼   ► iCloud Drive app or document picker on iOS. So if you're for instance if you're

00:24:20 ◼   ► editing podcasts and you bounce out an mp3 and save it to your your desktop you

00:24:26 ◼   ► after it syncs you can just choose the iCloud document picker on your iPad and

00:24:32 ◼   ► upload to the server that way so you don't have to like stick in the iCloud

00:24:37 ◼   ► folder or stick it in Dropbox. You know I think this is going to be useful for

00:24:43 ◼   ► some people I know a lot of people use their desktop including me use their

00:24:47 ◼   ► desktop is just like a work in progress type folder. So if I'm working on a big

00:24:52 ◼   ► project I'll have it in a folder on my desktop and inside of us be crazy and

00:24:56 ◼   ► even though I'm just using a single Mac at this point which is a topic we can get

00:25:00 ◼   ► to to another time. I could see a world where it would be like it would be really great if I left this

00:25:05 ◼   ► project in my iMac but I needed to get it I just had my MacBook with me. Again totally

00:25:10 ◼   ► optional. There's always the overall feeling of like do I trust iCloud Drive

00:25:17 ◼   ► with this. For me, I won't speak for anyone else, for me I don't use the iCloud Drive

00:25:22 ◼   ► document stuff very much. I do have a like a subset of documents I keep in

00:25:27 ◼   ► bywords iCloud container and a couple spreadsheets and numbers and it works

00:25:31 ◼   ► fine I'm not really pushing it very hard so this is a big leap of faith if you're

00:25:36 ◼   ► not kind of all in in iCloud Drive like our friend David Sparks is like all in

00:25:41 ◼   ► iCloud Drive and he's for everything and he seems at least from what I've heard

00:25:45 ◼   ► heard, really happy with it. But I'm not in it. Dropbox is my file system, as I told

00:25:51 ◼   ► somebody last week. Like, everything on my machine that is of any value to me data-wise

00:25:56 ◼   ► is in Dropbox. And that, I don't know what it would take to break me from that, because

00:26:00 ◼   ► I've been using it for a really long time and I trust it. But it's interesting to see

00:26:04 ◼   ► Apple moving in this direction. So like, a problem that I have is, currently,

00:26:10 ◼   ► I have on my desktop all of my logic files, so that's where they live.

00:26:17 ◼   ► I don't want those syncing.

00:26:18 ◼   ► It's like hundreds of gigabytes, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds.

00:26:22 ◼   ► I don't want that to be sunk anywhere, really, to be honest.

00:26:27 ◼   ► I think you're looking for "sinktedeed."

00:26:29 ◼   ► Oh, "sinktedeed."

00:26:30 ◼   ► Sorry, how could I have gotten that wrong?

00:26:33 ◼   ► "Sinkted."

00:26:34 ◼   ► "Sinkted."

00:26:35 ◼   ► "Sinkted" over.

00:26:36 ◼   ► No, I agree with you.

00:26:37 ◼   ► I do, if I'm working on the next episode of Ingenious, another show that you and I do,

00:26:43 ◼   ► and it's got a logic file and a bunch of WAV files and stuff, and I keep it in my downloads

00:26:47 ◼   ► folder because I've set my downloads folder to be excluded from backblaze to avoid that

00:26:54 ◼   ► sort of, you know, I'm tethering or I've got a slow connection and I don't want to be syncing,

00:27:00 ◼   ► backing up multi-gigabyte files.

00:27:02 ◼   ► That's very weird to me.

00:27:04 ◼   ► So downloads is kind of a little enclave for me to stash stuff with my cloud backup, not

00:27:09 ◼   ► seeing it.

00:27:10 ◼   ► Why don't you just, like, not that you need my help here, but like what I do is I have

00:27:15 ◼   ► a folder called podcast scratches, which lives on my desktop.

00:27:20 ◼   ► That was where it goes.

00:27:21 ◼   ► That feels like a, I don't know, like a more logical place in putting it in your downloads

00:27:25 ◼   ► folder.

00:27:26 ◼   ► It just seems strange to me to mix those things up.

00:27:28 ◼   ► Yeah, well I try to keep my desktop clean, so the only thing I'm active in working on

00:27:33 ◼   ► So something like UnGenius, I did the first edit, I'm waiting on you, so it's just hanging

00:27:37 ◼   ► out downloads so I don't have to see it for a week.

00:27:41 ◼   ► But to each his own, to each his own.

00:27:44 ◼   ► Optimized storage, this terrifies me.

00:27:46 ◼   ► Oh God, so I'm just going to read you how Apple describes this because it's a little

00:27:52 ◼   ► complicated.

00:27:53 ◼   ► So Mac OS Sierra can help make more room by automatically storing rarely used files in

00:27:57 ◼   ► the cloud and keeping them available on demand.

00:28:01 ◼   ► can also help you find and remove old files you no longer use. This is doing

00:28:09 ◼   ► two things. The first one is kind of easy to think about like photos so you sync

00:28:16 ◼   ► your you know your photo library up to iCloud photo library and if you make the

00:28:22 ◼   ► settings correctly on your iPad for instance it just stores your thumbnails

00:28:25 ◼   ► and then it pulls down the full-size file on demand you tap on picture it

00:28:29 ◼   ► spins it comes in. So that's kind of called like nearline storage but what

00:28:33 ◼   ► that's doing what this is doing is bringing that to the finder. Again totally

00:28:38 ◼   ► optional you can leave it off like I'm going to and basically iCloud is watching

00:28:43 ◼   ► I guess everything in your home folder I can't tell you if it's the whole disk

00:28:48 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure it's just the home folder. This is hey you've got all these

00:28:52 ◼   ► these papers you wrote in college ten years ago you haven't opened these in

00:28:56 ◼   ► eight years let's just store those in iCloud drive and we'll just leave a little

00:29:01 ◼   ► a little icon in your finder next time you know in ten years when you want to

00:29:05 ◼   ► read one of those papers again click on it we downloaded on demand and you can

00:29:10 ◼   ► open it. In theory I'm okay with some of this but it's the idea of like me

00:29:16 ◼   ► needing a file when I'm on a plane but Apple has decided in the background that

00:29:22 ◼   ► I don't need it. That's why I don't like the thought of.

00:29:25 ◼   ► I think it's totally fair and at this point as of this recording I don't know what the UI is for this.

00:29:32 ◼   ► If it's just a checkbox, maybe not so good. It would be nice if you could tell it to give it rules like you can in the backblaze backup.

00:29:41 ◼   ► Hey exclude this folder at all. Never ever think that you can pull anything out of that podcast scratch folder.

00:29:50 ◼   ► leave it alone it's an island you can't get to it. Don't touch it.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Don't touch it, don't touch it. So I don't know what that control looks like

00:29:57 ◼   ► but to me the other one is way more terrifying it can help you

00:30:00 ◼   ► find and remove old files you'd no longer use. Now that verb

00:30:05 ◼   ► that verbiage makes me think there's some sort of interface again I haven't

00:30:08 ◼   ► seen it so

00:30:09 ◼   ► of hey these are a bunch of files

00:30:12 ◼   ► these college papers you haven't opened in a decade. Do you really want them?

00:30:16 ◼   ► Like maybe you just forgot they were in there maybe you can delete them. So

00:30:19 ◼   ► So hopefully this works like how I think it does, which means it's Sherlock's daisy disk.

00:30:26 ◼   ► Right, that there is a UI that I can open where it searches my folders and all that sort of stuff.

00:30:33 ◼   ► And it's like, there's a bunch of stuff here that you don't need anymore.

00:30:36 ◼   ► Shall we get rid of it? Like, and it shows me that stuff. That's what I would like it to do.

00:30:40 ◼   ► And be like, here's ten movies that you downloaded like a year ago and watch them all.

00:30:45 ◼   ► Let's get rid of those. Here's a bunch of caches we can get rid of. That kind of stuff.

00:30:48 ◼   ► I hope a lot of it is. Yeah. Here you go. So some real-time follow-up. Someone in the

00:30:54 ◼   ► chat room, Anthony, put in a link. We'll put this in the show notes of how this looks.

00:30:59 ◼   ► And so basically it shows you the apps that store documents in iCloud and then it has

00:31:05 ◼   ► like a another window that's like different types of files and you can say, you know,

00:31:10 ◼   ► these are all your documents, these are all your, like these is a bunch of mail attachments

00:31:14 ◼   ► you don't need anymore. So it doesn't look like you have some fine grained control over

00:31:18 ◼   ► what it's doing. Which is good, I can't ever imagine Apple shipping something that

00:31:22 ◼   ► just nukes files off your desktop without giving you any advance warning. But something,

00:31:30 ◼   ► I mean it's interesting right, this is a world, this is Apple responding to a world

00:31:34 ◼   ► in which they created tiny SSDs and things and it's good to have some tools. I mean

00:31:42 ◼   ► how many times have you or somebody you know gotten interested in like "hey my MacBook

00:31:46 ◼   ► air is you know full right because I have a 256 gig SSD and I don't know where all my

00:31:53 ◼   ► space is going and tools like daisy disk which is a great application can get you a little

00:31:58 ◼   ► bit down that road but it can only tell you where stuff is and it doesn't give you an

00:32:02 ◼   ► opportunity to do anything about it except delete things and Dropbox infinite is not

00:32:08 ◼   ► here yet and even if it is I think it's going to be confusing for normal people so I think

00:32:12 ◼   ► nearline storage like this is probably the right answer for a lot of people.

00:32:17 ◼   ► I don't really need to know if it's on my disk or if it's in the cloud because

00:32:21 ◼   ► finder will if I click on the icon it will spin and pull the file in

00:32:24 ◼   ► automatically and never have to manage it but this is early days again I haven't

00:32:31 ◼   ► you know not quite sure something I'm going to trust all the time but it's a

00:32:36 ◼   ► it's a it's an interesting low-level change to Mac OS and one that I think

00:32:40 ◼   ► think that if it's done well, and I hope that it is, people will find it useful because

00:32:44 ◼   ► people do run out of space all the time.

00:32:48 ◼   ► One thing that I found interesting to find out, and I feel frustrated about this, is

00:32:55 ◼   ► that the new messages features kind of in some ways work on OS X, Mac OS I should say,

00:33:04 ◼   ► but the thing that is frustrating is any of the new applications that will be out in the

00:33:08 ◼   ► iMessage App Store, you will be able to view any of this stuff on the Mac but you cannot

00:33:12 ◼   ► create it. There will be no iMessage App Store on the Mac and this annoys me. I don't know

00:33:17 ◼   ► why they're doing this. It feels like you're bringing a new thing, a new platform and just

00:33:25 ◼   ► deciding to not put it there and I know it's like engineering time etc etc. I get all of

00:33:30 ◼   ► that but it feels like you're just intentionally putting the Mac on a lower footing. Like you're

00:33:35 ◼   ► just deciding to do this, you know? Yeah, absolutely. So I at least use iMessage

00:33:42 ◼   ► all the time on the Mac. It's a great way to keep up with people. My guess is, like,

00:33:48 ◼   ► this is one of those things that Apple does sometimes where it's like they put one foot

00:33:51 ◼   ► in front of the other and you gotta wait for the other one to catch up. Like, I will not

00:33:55 ◼   ► be shocked at all if next year in 10.13 there is a message app store and all this other

00:34:02 ◼   ► stuff comes to the Mac.

00:34:05 ◼   ► Either they kind of get it done in time or I mean there's no telling what happened but

00:34:10 ◼   ► it is a little frustrating that some of this stuff will be read only on the Mac and I'm

00:34:15 ◼   ► I am not as excited about some of the stuff as you are like all the exploding backgrounds

00:34:20 ◼   ► and stuff it's just like whatever I mean I understand why people like it I'm excited

00:34:24 ◼   ► about some of it I think some of it's a little over the top but I think that it will get

00:34:29 ◼   ► there eventually but maybe they had trouble with the interface or kind of get it to work

00:34:36 ◼   ► the way they wanted it to but I would be more worried about this if we get another release

00:34:42 ◼   ► under our belts and it's still not there.

00:34:45 ◼   ► Overall though this is a really chunky Mac OS release which is great.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Maybe a little bit more than we would have expected right?

00:34:54 ◼   ► There was quite a few things that went in here.

00:34:56 ◼   ► and it's more than what it appears. So there's a bunch of stuff we haven't talked about.

00:35:02 ◼   ► On the surface it is not a very big update and I would say it's not even as big as something

00:35:08 ◼   ► like like Yosemite or even Mavericks had some some interesting stuff. It's not it's not

00:35:15 ◼   ► huge I mean like the high-level features you know you can write them off on one hand but

00:35:19 ◼   ► some of the changes are pretty significant like all this Nearline storage stuff is a

00:35:22 ◼   ► a big change obviously we haven't even talked about it file system change

00:35:26 ◼   ► coming and you know you're getting some stuff like the the smart photo stuff

00:35:32 ◼   ► that's happening iOS is happening in photos on the Mac so like there's a lot

00:35:35 ◼   ► of stuff going on here sure in picture as well picture in picture is coming

00:35:38 ◼   ► which I like I used a app called helium to do that and I guess they got

00:35:43 ◼   ► Sherlock a little bit but um Sherlock a little over the place Sherlock to all

00:35:48 ◼   ► the way. All the way. Double Sherlock. All the way. One of the big things I think it's

00:35:54 ◼   ► worth mentioning real quick is the policy change with iCloud and this I think came out

00:36:00 ◼   ► when the Phil Schiller news broke before W3C. I don't remember if we talked about that.

00:36:05 ◼   ► I think it was State of the Union. It may have been. I think you're right. So up until

00:36:10 ◼   ► this point to use iCloud features like CloudKit or the key value storage or you know all the

00:36:17 ◼   ► different various iCloud components you

00:36:19 ◼   ► can put into a Mac app you had to be in

00:36:22 ◼   ► the Mac App Store to use them and so

00:36:26 ◼   ► what you would see is you would see an

00:36:27 ◼   ► app leave the Mac App Store instead of the

00:36:29 ◼   ► iCloud sync went away right but with

00:36:32 ◼   ► this policy change Apple is allowing any

00:36:34 ◼   ► signed Mac app to use iCloud regardless

00:36:40 ◼   ► of its sold in the store or sold directly

00:36:42 ◼   ► or free from you know developer website

00:36:45 ◼   ► Which is huge, right? Because I think ultimately if you look at the Mac

00:36:50 ◼   ► App Store, you look at iCloud, Apple said iCloud is more important to us than the Mac

00:36:54 ◼   ► App Store and we want more people to use it on their Mac apps. And I like Mac apps

00:36:59 ◼   ► that offer iCloud sync. It's all very helpful. But there are a lot of apps that

00:37:02 ◼   ► I use that aren't in the App Store. And if given a choice, I will usually choose

00:37:07 ◼   ► the non-App Store version just so I don't have to deal with the dumpster fire that is the Mac

00:37:12 ◼   ► App Store which by the way got no attention. I don't know if it's any

00:37:15 ◼   ► better in Sierra but I got no mention on stage whatsoever about like Mac App

00:37:18 ◼   ► Store improvements. Like does the app work? No one knows. But it's interesting

00:37:23 ◼   ► because iCloud was one of the few carrots that Apple had to attract

00:37:27 ◼   ► developers to the Mac App Store and now they're saying as long as you sign it

00:37:31 ◼   ► with a developer certificate then you can do this without dealing with the Mac

00:37:35 ◼   ► App Store and I think it's Apple realizing that the Mac App Store

00:37:39 ◼   ► A just doesn't work for everybody. So somebody like Sketch who left the Mac

00:37:43 ◼   ► App Store last year just announced a new subscription model which I find really

00:37:47 ◼   ► interesting I think really well done and you know you could do they could be back

00:37:51 ◼   ► in the App Store if they I think a lot of the thing was about the pricing but

00:37:56 ◼   ► now they have the opportunity to use iCloud if they if they have a use for it.

00:38:00 ◼   ► So I think Apple realizes the Mac App Store just doesn't work for everybody

00:38:04 ◼   ► and I think it's also a goodwill

00:38:08 ◼   ► gesture to developers saying hey we

00:38:11 ◼   ► know the Mac App Store maybe isn't what

00:38:13 ◼   ► it should be and maybe you left it maybe

00:38:15 ◼   ► you've never even considered it but we

00:38:17 ◼   ► still want you to feel like you're a

00:38:19 ◼   ► valuable citizen in the Mac software

00:38:22 ◼   ► ecosystem and for better for worse a lot

00:38:25 ◼   ► of that is focused on iCloud now

00:38:29 ◼   ► that if you can use iCloud you can feel

00:38:30 ◼   ► more like a first-class citizen on the

00:38:32 ◼   ► Mac and so I think Apple realized all that and made the policy change and I'm all for

00:38:38 ◼   ► it.

00:38:39 ◼   ► I think it's a great change.

00:38:40 ◼   ► I think that it does mean maybe that the Mac App Store will kind of just continue on like

00:38:45 ◼   ► just you know kicking that can down the path a little bit further but I think that's okay.

00:38:50 ◼   ► I think it's a net win for the platform.

00:38:54 ◼   ► This week's episode is also brought to you by Smile and today I want to talk to you a

00:38:58 ◼   ► little bit about PDF/Pen.

00:39:00 ◼   ► It is time for you to break the cycle of scanning, printing, signing and faxing.

00:39:05 ◼   ► So you get a document, you know, you have to print it out because you need to sign it

00:39:08 ◼   ► and then you scan it and then maybe you need to send it off somewhere or maybe you get

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00:40:37 ◼   ► Alright so on upgrade this week, me and Jason spoke a lot about watchOS 3 and about it kind

00:40:43 ◼   ► of being the best thing at WWDC I think in our opinions, like of all the platforms, it's

00:40:48 ◼   ► the one that got the biggest change is the one that we're excited the most about. So

00:40:52 ◼   ► Steven I wanted to kind of hear from you a little bit about your thoughts on watchOS

00:40:56 ◼   ► and maybe if you agree with me and Jason. So one of the biggest things here is Apple

00:41:03 ◼   ► making some big moves to kind of rethink a lot about the way that we interact with watchOS.

00:41:09 ◼   ► With the first one I guess being reworking the buttons. What do you think about the change

00:41:14 ◼   ► in the friends button you said that you won't be able to so quickly digital touch people?

00:41:19 ◼   ► I'm totally fine with that change. I think it's actually really encouraging. There was

00:41:23 ◼   ► some concern I think even from the three of us that Apple sort of viewed that feature

00:41:29 ◼   ► as like really precious. They spent a lot of time on it in the demos. They dedicated

00:41:33 ◼   ► a whole like half of the physical controls on the side of the watch to it and I think

00:41:40 ◼   ► great that they changed it I think the doc like model will really work well and

00:41:46 ◼   ► I think it's a sign that Apple really did go back to the drawing board of the

00:41:49 ◼   ► watch and say you know what we maybe thought it worked this way and maybe in

00:41:54 ◼   ► their like circle of like hipster designer buddies at work it they did use

00:41:59 ◼   ► it that way but I think they realized pretty quickly that's not how it worked

00:42:03 ◼   ► in the real world and that they responded to that by making a big change

00:42:07 ◼   ► change is a big thumbs up for me.

00:42:11 ◼   ► So a lot of this stuff is focused around the recent EPs and a lot of the benefits that

00:42:18 ◼   ► we're going to get is because of that, so the idea of things staying in memory and the

00:42:22 ◼   ► doc and how the complications lead into some of that stuff.

00:42:24 ◼   ► Do you think this is going to be good?

00:42:26 ◼   ► Do you think this is a big change?

00:42:27 ◼   ► Do you think it's going to be useful?

00:42:29 ◼   ► I think so.

00:42:30 ◼   ► I think that in talking with everyone who has a watch this past week and even looking

00:42:36 ◼   ► it the way Apple describes it. A lot of people have just a handful of apps that

00:42:40 ◼   ► they use in their watch on any regular basis and a bunch of other apps that just

00:42:46 ◼   ► get installed automatically that sit in that honeycomb and so to to elevate your

00:42:51 ◼   ► favorite apps to the dock and leave the rest of the honeycomb you know the Mac

00:42:54 ◼   ► would be like the dock in the applications folder. Having a way to say

00:42:58 ◼   ► these are the apps that I care about these are the ones that I use on a regular

00:43:00 ◼   ► basis and because of that I want them to be auto updating and getting all the

00:43:04 ◼   ► benefits and being in the dock. It's obviously a huge change from before and I

00:43:08 ◼   ► do think it's going to make the watch more useful. I mean right now under watch

00:43:12 ◼   ► OS 2 the only way you can get to an app quickly is through a complication or a

00:43:17 ◼   ► glance. If you have to drop down to the honeycomb and like zoom around you might

00:43:20 ◼   ► as well just give up. I think Apple recognize that and having a way to

00:43:26 ◼   ► quickly get to the three or four apps that I use on a regular basis is gonna

00:43:31 ◼   ► be great I think it's going to make the watch much faster to use and much more

00:43:35 ◼   ► pleasant to use. I don't know about you, the honeycomb is beautiful on a poster but it's so

00:43:39 ◼   ► infuriating to use and they have downgraded it to like the bottom level

00:43:44 ◼   ► like if you have to go to the honeycomb you can and it's still there but if you

00:43:48 ◼   ► need you know one of your apps that you use a lot put it on a complication put it in

00:43:52 ◼   ► the dock and you can just tap it very quickly.

00:43:54 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm excited about that, right? And it came across quite well in the talk show where Federighi was kind of ragging on the watch a little bit.

00:44:05 ◼   ► And was kind of saying, I think it was Federighi who was saying this, it may have been Shilla, I don't remember, about how you're kind of holding your watch up and you're sitting there for a few seconds and it's not doing anything and your arm is starting to hurt and you just reach down and grab your phone.

00:44:20 ◼   ► Was that Federico that said that?

00:44:23 ◼   ► Yeah, and it's definitely been my experience.

00:44:26 ◼   ► Oh, 100%.

00:44:28 ◼   ► And I like that he said that.

00:44:31 ◼   ► This actually leads into my overall theory that he can't be trusted, right?

00:44:34 ◼   ► Oh yeah, he's a wildcard.

00:44:36 ◼   ► Yeah, he's just going off on one all the time.

00:44:38 ◼   ► But it's so true, right?

00:44:39 ◼   ► There's so many times where I've looked at that spinner and been like, "Oh, I've got

00:44:42 ◼   ► to get my iPhone out instead."

00:44:44 ◼   ► And they're focusing on that as a big thing for watchOS 3, and that makes me really happy

00:44:48 ◼   ► because they are understanding the ways that they failed and they're re-architecturing

00:44:53 ◼   ► and reworking the watch to deal with the problems and I'm very happy about that and I'm excited

00:44:59 ◼   ► to see how it works and I was listening to Under Radar this week and Underscore was saying

00:45:04 ◼   ► that like he was running two watches which was hilarious to see. On the existing watch

00:45:09 ◼   ► hardware on Apple's built-in apps like that's working now and it's fast and it's responsive.

00:45:17 ◼   ► I'm very excited about this. This feels like they're building the watch that I always wanted

00:45:22 ◼   ► to use. Currently it's the hardware I want, the features that I want, but there's something

00:45:28 ◼   ► in between that's kind of broken, but it feels like that's not going to be the case here.

00:45:33 ◼   ► Glances are gone, right?

00:45:35 ◼   ► Yeah, the glances are gone. So the interaction now is put it as a complication on your watch

00:45:41 ◼   ► face so that it'll make changing watch faces easier, or hit the side button and go to the

00:45:46 ◼   ► dock and so if you swipe up now currently you know you can swipe through

00:45:50 ◼   ► all of your glances now there's control center just like on iOS but there's it's

00:45:56 ◼   ► not a page deal it's just control center and basically they they I think I think

00:46:03 ◼   ► they said in the demos they sort of folded in glances into the dock like

00:46:07 ◼   ► it's the same idea like glance is kind of in a way like not that dissimilar

00:46:13 ◼   ► from the docks like your favorite apps in theory they're supposed to launch

00:46:16 ◼   ► quickly but of course they didn't and now it's behind a side button as opposed to a swipe up so

00:46:20 ◼   ► they're gone but like I guess the spirit of them is still kind of there in the doc but

00:46:26 ◼   ► you know I use them heavily but I really feel like I was one of the few people I just I get

00:46:32 ◼   ► the impression that Glances obviously were just sort of skipped over by a lot of users.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Yeah and what I like is that the new kind of doc feature it shows all like a UI that is updated

00:46:44 ◼   ► So when you hit that button and you're scrolling through the apps,

00:46:48 ◼   ► you're seeing

00:46:49 ◼   ► accurate information which is kind of like glances.

00:46:53 ◼   ► You know, so I feel like that they found a nice middle ground

00:46:56 ◼   ► between all of that.

00:46:58 ◼   ► And I'm excited, I'm very excited about it. What about multiple watch faces?

00:47:02 ◼   ► Do you think you'd use this feature?

00:47:04 ◼   ► I don't use it now,

00:47:06 ◼   ► but I also don't

00:47:08 ◼   ► use one third party complication right now because they're so slow.

00:47:12 ◼   ► And so it may be that... so what Apple's pitching is

00:47:17 ◼   ► you set up a watch face for work that maybe has your calendar and your omni focus on it

00:47:22 ◼   ► and then you swipe over and you have your, you know, maybe your at-home

00:47:27 ◼   ► watch face that maybe has your grocery list and it doesn't have your calendar and it has the

00:47:31 ◼   ► weather instead. Or you swipe over and you have like

00:47:34 ◼   ► at the lake weekend it has nothing on it except the weather. Like they're setting it up to say

00:47:39 ◼   ► use your complications as a context-aware type scenario,

00:47:44 ◼   ► where you can change what you see based on where you are.

00:47:49 ◼   ► Of course, they can't do it automatically.

00:47:51 ◼   ► That'd be sweet, but they're not doing anything like that.

00:47:54 ◼   ► But they're really pitching this in,

00:47:55 ◼   ► make your complications part of your life in a new way.

00:47:58 ◼   ► And if they do that and they work this time,

00:48:03 ◼   ► then I could definitely be interested in revisiting them.

00:48:07 ◼   ► It is interesting that they,

00:48:09 ◼   ► the gesture to change watch faces is now an edge swipe.

00:48:14 ◼   ► Basically anything that was 3D touch only is gone

00:48:17 ◼   ► in watchOS 3, it all has another way to be done.

00:48:21 ◼   ► Which is very interesting to me.

00:48:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, interesting. - But I think that

00:48:24 ◼   ► they're making the pitch of like, hey, do this.

00:48:28 ◼   ► Use watch faces to your advantage.

00:48:30 ◼   ► 'Cause up to this point, I've always seen a watch face

00:48:32 ◼   ► as like, I just wanna pick the one that looks

00:48:34 ◼   ► the way I want it to look.

00:48:35 ◼   ► and I very rarely change.

00:48:38 ◼   ► In fact, the only time I really change is actually

00:48:39 ◼   ► like when I'm flying, like I was twice last week.

00:48:41 ◼   ► And I will use the utility one and I'll put the calendars,

00:48:45 ◼   ► the big one, so I can see all my flight information.

00:48:47 ◼   ► But the rest of that, I just use the utility one,

00:48:49 ◼   ► like all the time with two complications on it,

00:48:51 ◼   ► it never changes.

00:48:53 ◼   ► And I think Apple wants it to be more interactive than that.

00:48:55 ◼   ► So I think all that stuff is good.

00:48:56 ◼   ► I think watchOS 3 is a great move in the right direction.

00:49:01 ◼   ► What's really interesting to me,

00:49:02 ◼   ► and I wanna see what you think about this, Myke,

00:49:04 ◼   ► is it sort of makes like my burning desire for new watch hardware

00:49:10 ◼   ► not as important. Like this is faster on existing hardware

00:49:14 ◼   ► than... I wanted a new watch to be faster

00:49:18 ◼   ► and like using underscores even in beta one is not instant

00:49:21 ◼   ► but it's way quicker and it kind of

00:49:25 ◼   ► I don't know like I'm not super anxious for new watch hardware all of a sudden

00:49:29 ◼   ► what do you think? The only feature I wanted from a new watch was faster

00:49:33 ◼   ► That was all I wanted.

00:49:34 ◼   ► So if they add a camera, I kind of don't care.

00:49:37 ◼   ► If they make it thinner, I also kind of don't care,

00:49:39 ◼   ► because then the battery might not be as good.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And I actually don't think they're

00:49:42 ◼   ► going to make the next watch thinner, because they've just

00:49:45 ◼   ► decided to eat into the battery life that they had, right?

00:49:48 ◼   ► That's a really good point.

00:49:49 ◼   ► So I can't imagine any hardware feature

00:49:53 ◼   ► that I would specifically want.

00:49:55 ◼   ► There's nothing that I'm pining for.

00:49:57 ◼   ► Apple has the ability, as always,

00:49:59 ◼   ► to make something that I didn't expect.

00:50:01 ◼   ► but a lot of the things that I wanted, the main thing I wanted from the new

00:50:05 ◼   ► watch hardware seems to have gone away.

00:50:07 ◼   ► And if they say that "Oh, it's still faster on watch 2."

00:50:10 ◼   ► Great, I'm sure that would be awesome, but it's already so much faster

00:50:15 ◼   ► with watchOS 3

00:50:17 ◼   ► that making it a little bit faster in watch 2 is less appealing

00:50:20 ◼   ► and I'm interested to see what Apple come out with because

00:50:24 ◼   ► you know maybe they design it differently, right? Maybe there's like a new design, a better

00:50:27 ◼   ► looking

00:50:28 ◼   ► watch than what we currently have in a way that I don't see right now. But I'm struggling

00:50:35 ◼   ► to see what they could do because the watchOS 3 is solving a lot of what was considered

00:50:40 ◼   ► to be our problems. I want to talk to you about breathe. So this is a new thing that

00:50:47 ◼   ► Ample is doing to help people take breathing exercises throughout the day. I've actually

00:50:53 ◼   ► used this, I've experienced this. I was sitting next to our friend Ben McCarthy, who I, by

00:51:00 ◼   ► the way, blame for this sickness. He was coughing, so thanks Ben. And he had the Watch 3 on his

00:51:07 ◼   ► watch, and it reminded him to breathe.

00:51:12 ◼   ► With a capital B, so it's not being sarcastic.

00:51:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I really think they should have chose a different name for this, because the notifications

00:51:20 ◼   ► are so ridiculous.

00:51:22 ◼   ► it's the most Apple name of any feature.

00:51:24 ◼   ► It's too... basically I know why they call it this and it looks nice but

00:51:30 ◼   ► the

00:51:31 ◼   ► the way that it notifies you means it kind of makes fun of itself.

00:51:36 ◼   ► You know like reminding you, like remember to breathe.

00:51:39 ◼   ► That kind of stuff it's like no,

00:51:41 ◼   ► no come on guys let's not do this but anyway.

00:51:44 ◼   ► Basically what it does is it said to us you know we went into the mode

00:51:48 ◼   ► and it was like we want you to

00:51:50 ◼   ► kind of clear your mind

00:51:52 ◼   ► focus on your breathing, we're gonna take seven deep breaths.

00:51:56 ◼   ► And then there's an animation that happens on the screen

00:51:58 ◼   ► of like a kind of a pseudo flower type thing,

00:52:01 ◼   ► expanding and shrinking.

00:52:03 ◼   ► And every time you need to change from like,

00:52:05 ◼   ► breathe out to breathe in,

00:52:06 ◼   ► you get a little tap on the wrist.

00:52:10 ◼   ► And do you know what?

00:52:11 ◼   ► I really liked it.

00:52:12 ◼   ► I don't think I'm gonna be doing this like seven times a day

00:52:15 ◼   ► but if it reminds me to breathe

00:52:16 ◼   ► while I'm in a particularly stressful time in my day,

00:52:19 ◼   ► I will totally do this.

00:52:20 ◼   ► And I would love it if a way that they're doing this or could do this in the future is monitoring my heart rate.

00:52:27 ◼   ► And then reminding me to do this, I think that might be kind of cool, like there might be a difference there.

00:52:32 ◼   ► Or maybe some people have spoken about this, like that Watch 2 could be getting new sensors,

00:52:38 ◼   ► one of those sensors could be to try and understand stress.

00:52:42 ◼   ► And if it can do that and couple this in with the breathing, and that might be why they're introducing it,

00:52:47 ◼   ► That would be really cool and I would like that and yeah

00:52:50 ◼   ► I did it and Joe it did calm me down for a little bit for that time

00:52:54 ◼   ► So I was kind of I was kind of happy with that. This is something that I will use

00:52:58 ◼   ► I think I will use it as much as I use stand right so not all the time

00:53:02 ◼   ► But it does remind me to do something that I should be doing

00:53:04 ◼   ► So yeah, I thought it was kind of cool

00:53:07 ◼   ► But the name sucks. I

00:53:09 ◼   ► think it's one of those features that

00:53:12 ◼   ► You know, it's easy to sort of

00:53:15 ◼   ► right off in the context of like a developer keynote.

00:53:18 ◼   ► But I agree with you. I think it's going to be

00:53:22 ◼   ► useful for some people. I too have used similar things in the past and there really is something to it and

00:53:28 ◼   ► I think if

00:53:31 ◼   ► it could bring more people to that sort of thing then hey, that's great. It's um

00:53:35 ◼   ► it's one of those things. I agree with you the name.

00:53:38 ◼   ► The name is funny. So let me understand. So it can use the haptic feedback to tell you

00:53:44 ◼   ► Like the timing so we were saying well because what it's doing is asking you to breathe in and breathe out, right?

00:53:50 ◼   ► so

00:53:52 ◼   ► Instead of you sitting there and watching the animation move in and out the whole time

00:53:56 ◼   ► Which we did do just to see what it looked like because you'd be holding your wrist up

00:54:00 ◼   ► So you'll breathe it to you to breathe in and then it will tap you and then you breathe out and then it taps you

00:54:06 ◼   ► And then you breathe in and I think that there are different tap like tap gesture

00:54:09 ◼   ► like the amount of times it taps you I think differs so you can kind of place where you are and you learn it over time

00:54:14 ◼   ► But it just stops you from having to stare at your watch for 20 seconds

00:54:18 ◼   ► So like you look at it

00:54:19 ◼   ► you know when the first motion is and then you can kind of put it down and it will just hit you whenever you need to

00:54:24 ◼   ► To do that that makes sense. Yeah, this may be a reason for me to finally get my watch fixed where my haptic

00:54:32 ◼   ► Like tappic engine and my stainless steel watch doesn't really tap me anymore to sort of rattles probably problematic

00:54:39 ◼   ► Apparently this is I've heard people say that the steel watch

00:54:42 ◼   ► Has a weaker taptic motor than the sport watch

00:54:45 ◼   ► I don't know if it's that or visit the body weighs more and it just can't make the movement as convincing

00:54:51 ◼   ► But mine definitely sounds like a little bomb going off every time I get a notification

00:54:54 ◼   ► Then you've got a problem. I think I do

00:54:57 ◼   ► Other than that like are you thinking that any of these features might make you use the watch more?

00:55:04 ◼   ► I know like of the three of us you're the one who's kind of given up

00:55:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I wear it about 50% of the time. I took it with me to WBC and did not take my other watch

00:55:13 ◼   ► worth the whole time and

00:55:15 ◼   ► I think that it I

00:55:18 ◼   ► Think that it could really make the watch more

00:55:21 ◼   ► Helpful for me because I have that frustration that everyone else has but because I work at home

00:55:29 ◼   ► I'm not like running around all the time

00:55:31 ◼   ► Like my phone is always where I can use it and that was fun with us in the past

00:55:35 ◼   ► But in a previous life when I had a lot of client meetings

00:55:37 ◼   ► the watch was much more useful to me because I couldn't put my phone out and I could just quickly glance and see what was

00:55:43 ◼   ► Going on and now there there's no one telling me that that's rude because I just at home with the dog all day

00:55:48 ◼   ► But uh, so when I'm out wearing it, you know running errands or something

00:55:53 ◼   ► The the slowness the lack of read the reminders app will be will be hit nice change

00:55:58 ◼   ► When I go go shopping is what my wife and I use and it's always frustrating to have to use my phone

00:56:04 ◼   ► it's like why isn't this on the watch? Well now it is and so I don't know if

00:56:07 ◼   ► it's gonna make me wear the watch all the time again but I think that it will

00:56:11 ◼   ► definitely make the watch more useful to me and I think that I think that overall

00:56:17 ◼   ► it's gonna be good I think overall they have simplified the like the paradigm of

00:56:22 ◼   ► the watch like understanding what the watch is doing and how it's working I

00:56:26 ◼   ► think is going to be simpler now for users who are new to it and you know

00:56:32 ◼   ► Even now, how long have they been out?

00:56:35 ◼   ► A year and a half?

00:56:36 ◼   ► You know, over a year?

00:56:38 ◼   ► Even now, sometimes I get in a state on my watch and I'm not sure how I got there, and

00:56:42 ◼   ► I just sort of have to bail out to the watch face and start over.

00:56:47 ◼   ► And I think that will not be the case anymore, I think they've solved that, and I think it

00:56:51 ◼   ► will make it a more compelling product for new users as well.

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00:58:26 ◼   ► their support of this show and Relay FM. Right, so something that was left out of the

00:58:35 ◼   ► keynote was anything really iPad specific. So we saw a lot of iOS 10 and even in the

00:58:42 ◼   ► Apple press release photos which I downloaded because I keep a collection of those naturally.

00:58:47 ◼   ► on the iPhone. So we're back in this like iOS 8, iOS 7 era where the iPad is not getting

00:58:57 ◼   ► anything specific really. There are a couple little things we can get to those. But iOS

00:59:02 ◼   ► 10 is a more universal release where iOS 9 obviously had a lot of iPad only features.

00:59:07 ◼   ► I wouldn't even call it universal. I would say iOS 10 is an iPhone release.

00:59:12 ◼   ► Yeah, Control Center is shockingly bad in the iPad beta.

00:59:16 ◼   ► But, so I don't know, so what

00:59:20 ◼   ► do you think about this? Federico

00:59:24 ◼   ► wrote something over on MacStories yesterday

00:59:27 ◼   ► putting out some theories about what's going on. What do you think?

00:59:30 ◼   ► In Federico's absence, let me TLDR his piece.

00:59:33 ◼   ► Effectively there are no big iPad specific features announced for the

00:59:39 ◼   ► iPad at WWDC. And it's mainly what the iPad is getting is support for iPhone things and

00:59:46 ◼   ► unfortunately for the Mac, much better support than the Mac is getting, right? So all the

00:59:50 ◼   ► iMessage App Store and all that kind of stuff is going to be on the iPad. What we did get,

00:59:55 ◼   ► so there were a couple of little bits, Split View Safari, which is really nice, is two

00:59:59 ◼   ► instances of Safari side by side, not two applications. So basically you take a tab

01:00:05 ◼   ► and you can drag the tab to the right side and it will pop out.

01:00:08 ◼   ► Then you can have multiple tabs going at the same time.

01:00:11 ◼   ► So you can have multiple tabs on the left, multiple tabs on the right.

01:00:13 ◼   ► They both scroll independently.

01:00:15 ◼   ► But if you drag an app over into Split View,

01:00:18 ◼   ► it pops those back into one application

01:00:20 ◼   ► and you can't bring up this second Safari view currently from Split View.

01:00:25 ◼   ► It is you are using the application, the one application, which is Safari,

01:00:29 ◼   ► and using two instances of that app side by side within the one application.

01:00:33 ◼   ► It's a little difficult to explain, but basically it's not two versions of Safari, it's one

01:00:38 ◼   ► app.

01:00:39 ◼   ► They've also brought around a three panel notes and mails, so you have three panes there.

01:00:46 ◼   ► You have your mailboxes, then your message list, and then your messages, for example.

01:00:53 ◼   ► That's kind of how it works in both.

01:00:55 ◼   ► There's some new UI stuff for Spotlight, which I'm really happy with.

01:01:01 ◼   ► if you hit command tab on a keyboard it takes you back to the home screen drops down the

01:01:05 ◼   ► spotlight view and puts the cursor in so you can't start typing right away but now

01:01:09 ◼   ► It takes like 9 minutes to make those transitions

01:01:12 ◼   ► Way too long, I've gotten used to it because I do it so much but now spotlight overlays

01:01:17 ◼   ► over whatever you're looking at like it does on the Mac so it's instant super happy about

01:01:21 ◼   ► this it will take, all it does is save me a couple of seconds every time but it will

01:01:26 ◼   ► feel more fluid which I'm really happy about. Command tab now has a home screen icon so

01:01:31 ◼   ► in the command tab you can go right to the end and hit home screen. I think this is kind

01:01:34 ◼   ► of pointless for me because I know why they've done this which is people hit command tab,

01:01:41 ◼   ► the app that they're looking for or expecting to be in there isn't there so then they have

01:01:45 ◼   ► to open another application and then hit home right to go to and then choose the app that

01:01:50 ◼   ► they want. That's why they've done this I think. So now you can just hit the home screen

01:01:54 ◼   ► and then you go back to the home screen. But what I do is I would just take my finger off

01:02:00 ◼   ► of tab and then hit it with H, right? Because command H takes you to home. But I guess not

01:02:06 ◼   ► enough people know about these shortcuts or whatever, so they've put a home screen icon

01:02:10 ◼   ► in there. It's kind of fine but now you've just taken away one of the apps that I'm looking

01:02:14 ◼   ► for in that list. But, hey ho, I can see that users are doing this. That's why I expect

01:02:18 ◼   ► they've done this. So it's a nice change for that but for me it's, you know, I don't know

01:02:24 ◼   ► how to fix it already. Federico believes, so the crux of Federico's article is what's

01:02:30 ◼   ► happening with the iPad. And he has belief that we will see more iPad specific improvements

01:02:35 ◼   ► later in the iOS 10 release cycle. So somewhere after iOS 10 is released to the public, before

01:02:42 ◼   ► iOS 11, there will be point releases with more iPad specific improvements. Some things

01:02:47 ◼   ► that he thinks calling out to this is safari and sticker animations. So the safari tab

01:02:52 ◼   ► that the split view, you hit a tab and then it like floats and then you drag it over and

01:02:57 ◼   ► it opens up. And this is kind of the same with the stickers. So in the stickers in iOS

01:03:02 ◼   ► you hit the stickers, they pop out of the kind of UI, you know, and they can kind of

01:03:06 ◼   ► call 3D view, I guess, and then you drag them over to stick onto the sticker. Federico believes

01:03:13 ◼   ► that these animations and the work that's gone into that hints at drag and drop on the

01:03:17 ◼   ► iPad which I completely agree with. Federico also says that he thinks that the iOS releases

01:03:25 ◼   ► are likely to fall in line with more iPad hardware revisions so in March will be a year

01:03:30 ◼   ► since the 9.7 inch iPad Pro. This seems like a real good time to have more releases and

01:03:37 ◼   ► it may take cues from the iPad education enhancements which were in 9.3 which I believe was March

01:03:43 ◼   ► right? They came out? Yeah, I could see a world where spring equals iPad and fall equals

01:03:49 ◼   ► iPhone. Yep. There also should be some kind of way to enable the iPad to work with the

01:03:54 ◼   ► new 3D touch actions, so the stuff on the notifications and the stuff on the home screen,

01:03:59 ◼   ► and that may come in a later release as well. I completely agree with this stuff. I think

01:04:04 ◼   ► that with the current state of the iPad, given current sales trends, it's worth taking additional

01:04:11 ◼   ► time to make the iPad more attractive but it's not worth taking time away from the iPhone.

01:04:16 ◼   ► So don't do it in the build up to the September iPhone release or the WWDC release in June.

01:04:23 ◼   ► You may as well do it later. Announce it maybe a little earlier, announce it in March with

01:04:29 ◼   ► a release in April or something like that to give people more time to do iPad work inside

01:04:34 ◼   ► of Apple and outside of Apple and give it its own release. It's not necessary to have

01:04:40 ◼   ► this stuff already for the holiday season because I just don't think that's what's happening

01:04:45 ◼   ► with the iPad. They may as well give it time to grow and time to be worked on and have

01:04:50 ◼   ► its own release schedule in the other half of the year. I think that's really interesting

01:04:54 ◼   ► and I hope that's the way it continues and that's what Apple is looking to do here. Because

01:04:59 ◼   ► iOS 9 was such a jump forward for the iPad, this shouldn't be the only jump forward that

01:05:03 ◼   ► we get for the next six years.

01:05:07 ◼   ► I think that's absolutely right and the so in addition to like the calendar split up

01:05:14 ◼   ► thing which I like the way you said it that focus on the iPhone and focus on the iPad

01:05:18 ◼   ► but don't let them take away from each other.

01:05:20 ◼   ► I think that Apple is still looking for a way to slow down that that fall that the iPad

01:05:27 ◼   ► is still in with the sales numbers and I think one way to do that is to make it more compelling

01:05:34 ◼   ► from a software perspective and so to have iOS 9 be it for another couple of

01:05:40 ◼   ► years seems really counter to that to that point and I can see them you know

01:05:47 ◼   ► the hardware is really good the hardware has been really good for a long time and now

01:05:51 ◼   ► it's sort of time to mature the software. I think too it adds a nice opportunity

01:05:57 ◼   ► for schools who are making purchases in the spring for the next school year. You

01:06:04 ◼   ► You know people always said, "Oh, you know they release MacBooks in July for schools."

01:06:07 ◼   ► Like, no, schools buy stuff in February or March.

01:06:11 ◼   ► They're not buying stuff over the summer, they're deploying it over the summer.

01:06:14 ◼   ► And so as iPad and education becomes a bigger push, this makes sense to align with that

01:06:21 ◼   ► a little bit better.

01:06:22 ◼   ► And not that that would be a reason to change an entire product strategy, but I think it's

01:06:26 ◼   ► a nice bonus if you're changing the strategy that you get to pick up that edu benefit as

01:06:31 ◼   ► well.

01:06:32 ◼   ► And I think just I think lastly that you know these iOS releases have gotten so big, these

01:06:37 ◼   ► keynotes have gotten so full, there is there's always going to be a loser and this year the

01:06:44 ◼   ► watch was the winner and the iPad was the loser and putting the iPad in the spring and

01:06:51 ◼   ► once if they're if they're doing this and once they set the calendar you know after

01:06:56 ◼   ► the second fall the iPhone was in was out we all kind of understood that the fall meant

01:07:01 ◼   ► new iPhones. If they can set that schedule with the iPad it also like

01:07:07 ◼   ► takes a little pressure off WWDC in the fall events. If people aren't running

01:07:11 ◼   ► around doing what we're doing right now like where's the iPad? Well if we can all

01:07:14 ◼   ► understand that it's in the spring then everyone is less stressed about it and

01:07:18 ◼   ► it helps even out their calendar. It won't be like it was a 2012 where

01:07:24 ◼   ► everything was in the fall. It will give them some opportunity to handle

01:07:30 ◼   ► everything better from like all sorts of different angles and so I'm all for it.

01:07:35 ◼   ► I understand that you know right now there's a little bit of a pain point if

01:07:38 ◼   ► March is going to be a new iPad hardware it means that 12.9 inch iPad may be a

01:07:41 ◼   ► year and a half old by the time they refresh it but I think that's fine.

01:07:45 ◼   ► You have to go through these changing and growing pains to get to where they

01:07:49 ◼   ► want to be and I agree with Federico and I agree with you that the spring seems like

01:07:53 ◼   ► the obvious time to spend on the iPad and let let the phone kind of own the

01:07:58 ◼   ► the fall event on its own, or with the watch I guess.

01:08:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think splitting them up would be really nice,

01:08:04 ◼   ► and I think it would just help as well

01:08:07 ◼   ► from a consumer perspective of not,

01:08:09 ◼   ► of Apple not releasing all of their products

01:08:11 ◼   ► in September and October.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Like, that is not good, in my opinion.

01:08:16 ◼   ► Like, to release all of your hardware

01:08:18 ◼   ► within the space of a couple of months of each other.

01:08:21 ◼   ► I think that that doesn't help

01:08:22 ◼   ► consumer buying decisions as well.

01:08:24 ◼   ► So I think it might be nice to help spread that out

01:08:26 ◼   ► a little bit, even if it just helps me,

01:08:28 ◼   ► you know, come on Apple, give me a break here. I can't buy everything. I was listening back

01:08:33 ◼   ► to some of the episodes to find the little clip of me saying to Federico about setting

01:08:39 ◼   ► my goal and in that episode I just bought an iMac and was talking about buying an iPad

01:08:44 ◼   ► Pro and then I remembered how bad my bank account felt in September of last year.

01:08:48 ◼   ► It's a lot of stuff and I think that the watch will benefit from the holiday bump more than

01:08:56 ◼   ► the iPad. Well, I mean, clearly if you look at the sales numbers, the holidays, like,

01:09:01 ◼   ► it matters for the phone, it doesn't matter so much for the iPad. And so if that's true,

01:09:06 ◼   ► then like, why not break it? And why not give the watch that false spot and let the iPad

01:09:12 ◼   ► do what it wants to do naturally? I don't think there's any downside to it.

01:09:16 ◼   ► Especially because Cook has been on record to say that the watch is a full product. Like,

01:09:22 ◼   ► they've said that. And I think having them, like you said, he said holiday season I think

01:09:26 ◼   ► actually. So having them both come out in the fall together, it will also allow the

01:09:31 ◼   ► iPhone and the watch to gain new features that are exclusive to each other, you know,

01:09:35 ◼   ► with every new hardware revision which I think is the way that they sell those products as

01:09:38 ◼   ► a pair going on into the future. I think that could be good for them. So I think we're going

01:09:43 ◼   ► to see this stuff. I agree with Federico. I think it's coming and I think it's going

01:09:47 ◼   ► to come around March time, we're going to have to wait and see. But there is a part

01:09:52 ◼   ► of me that is fully aware of the wishful thinking aspect of this. That is not hidden to me.

01:10:01 ◼   ► Like I'm very aware of the fact that like I'm holding on here to see more. If we don't

01:10:06 ◼   ► see anything within this revision, I'm going to be very, very upset because Apple has really

01:10:12 ◼   ► shown to us that they were focusing on the iPad, then they released Pro hardware. If

01:10:18 ◼   ► we don't see anything this year to kind of take advantage of that in new and exciting

01:10:22 ◼   ► ways, that is going to be very disappointing. Very, very disappointing indeed. And it will

01:10:29 ◼   ► again show an unfortunate lack of care and advance in the platform which they'd shown

01:10:34 ◼   ► for so many years but it looked like was changing. So I do still believe they're going to do

01:10:38 ◼   ► it but I just want to say that like if they don't, tat tat tat.

01:10:42 ◼   ► Yep, that'll be, I think like most things time will tell, I think time will really tell

01:10:49 ◼   ► here that if it is next fall before we see anything iPad specific then something is going

01:10:54 ◼   ► on and but I don't think they're going to do it.

01:10:56 ◼   ► I think that Apple has shown that it cares about this platform.

01:11:00 ◼   ► They're obviously investing heavily on the hardware side and I think they've got momentum

01:11:05 ◼   ► coming out of iOS 9 and iOS 9.3 and it makes a lot of sense just to continue that

01:11:10 ◼   ► momentum forward to keep people excited to keep developers engaged and to keep

01:11:16 ◼   ► the public interested in what's going on right that it's it's not just a big

01:11:21 ◼   ► iPhone that it can do things that are unique and that are powerful and that

01:11:25 ◼   ► are well suited to the larger display it's just it's just a win all the way

01:11:29 ◼   ► around if they can keep it up. Cool. Alright, shall we wrap up? I think that does it. I

01:11:36 ◼   ► made it. You did. It's pretty good right? It's good. I feel real happy that I got all

01:11:43 ◼   ► the way through. Well you have to close the show, it's not quite done yet. There we go,

01:11:48 ◼   ► done. Now this, thanks so much for listening to this week's episode, thanks to our sponsors

01:11:52 ◼   ► Willing.com, Smile and Ministry of Supply. If you want to find Stephen's work online,

01:11:56 ◼   ► He is @ismh on Twitter and he writes over at 512pixels.net.

01:12:01 ◼   ► I am @imike, I M Y K E. Federico, if you're out there, I hope you feel better and I hope

01:12:06 ◼   ► that we'll hear from you next week.

01:12:08 ◼   ► He is @vitici on Twitter, V I T I C C I.

01:12:11 ◼   ► And you can read his great iPad article as well with many more amazing things over at

01:12:16 ◼   ► MacStories.net.

01:12:17 ◼   ► If you want to find our show notes for this week head on over to relay.fm/connected/96.

01:12:23 ◼   ► We are on Twitter as well, the show is @_ConnectedFM.

01:12:27 ◼   ► Thank you for listening, we'll be back next time.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye Steven.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Adios!