Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:07 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 103.

00:00:12 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Mack Weldon, Hover and Braintree.

00:00:16 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Mr Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hello Federico.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Hey Myke, how are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► I'm very well, how are you?

00:00:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm doing great.

00:00:26 ◼   ► It's fun to be back in Rome, always.

00:00:29 ◼   ► I feel like I've been moving around the past few weeks.

00:00:32 ◼   ► I'm recording in my room as usual, feels good.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Yeah. - Yep.

00:00:37 ◼   ► So is your setup nice, you feeling comfortable today?

00:00:39 ◼   ► - I'm very comfortable, Myke.

00:00:40 ◼   ► - Good, and Steven Hackett, are you comfortable?

00:00:42 ◼   ► You feeling comfortable?

00:00:44 ◼   ► - I'm fine.

00:00:45 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:00:46 ◼   ► He's just fine.

00:00:47 ◼   ► - I am where I always am, I don't know.

00:00:50 ◼   ► It's fine, it's fine.

00:00:52 ◼   ► So we have some follow up.

00:00:53 ◼   ► Actually, we have mostly just follow up this week,

00:00:56 ◼   ► it seems like.

00:00:57 ◼   ► Myke went a little crazy, which we'll get to.

00:00:59 ◼   ► But first we wanted to point people to a event page

00:01:03 ◼   ► over on Facebook.

00:01:04 ◼   ► Myke and Jason Snell are coming to Memphis next week.

00:01:08 ◼   ► And we're gonna do a thing next Tuesday night.

00:01:10 ◼   ► So if you are in the area or want to get on a plane,

00:01:14 ◼   ► I guess, and come into the area, you can come hang out.

00:01:16 ◼   ► We're gonna have some drinks and hang out with people.

00:01:19 ◼   ► So there'll be a link in the show notes.

00:01:20 ◼   ► I think y'all spoke about an upgrade as well.

00:01:22 ◼   ► So come say hi if you're around.

00:01:26 ◼   ► - Memphis, woo-hoo.

00:01:28 ◼   ► Because it is going to be our two year anniversary next week for Relay FM.

00:01:34 ◼   ► That's why we're getting together.

00:01:36 ◼   ► Big week.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Huge week.

00:01:40 ◼   ► We have some smart keyboard follow-up.

00:01:44 ◼   ► I got sent this a lot last week.

00:01:49 ◼   ► Basically right after we finished recording, as these things happen, uh,

00:01:54 ◼   ► Apple released some smart keyboards with new layouts.

00:01:58 ◼   ► And so there are a couple different ones.

00:02:00 ◼   ► There's an Arabic one, there's one for whatever it is

00:02:03 ◼   ► that Myke speaks.

00:02:04 ◼   ► And I just wanna kinda explain to listeners

00:02:09 ◼   ► your journey with this, because your initial points

00:02:12 ◼   ► in the follow-up say they cost 140 pounds each,

00:02:15 ◼   ► stickers mean I don't wanna sell the old ones,

00:02:17 ◼   ► the next bullet point, I got one.

00:02:19 ◼   ► So what happened?

00:02:20 ◼   ► - Well, okay, so I'm a little bit upset

00:02:24 ◼   ► because they're so expensive.

00:02:28 ◼   ► It's like £129 for the 9.7 and £139 for the 12.9

00:02:34 ◼   ► which just for any type of keyboard is incredibly expensive

00:02:40 ◼   ► and these are very expensive.

00:02:41 ◼   ► And I have two, that's my own problem, I actually have two iPads

00:02:44 ◼   ► but I really wished that this didn't happen

00:02:49 ◼   ► but like I didn't need to buy these

00:02:51 ◼   ► but also I want the keyboard that I'm used to at the same time.

00:02:55 ◼   ► This is the problem that I've been having.

00:02:57 ◼   ► I can't sell mine on because they're covered in stickers which also makes me not want to

00:03:01 ◼   ► sell them on.

00:03:02 ◼   ► And then the other part of me was like I have desired these and been asking for these so

00:03:07 ◼   ► much and so often I had to buy one.

00:03:10 ◼   ► When they came out it's like I couldn't not buy one because I've been talking about it

00:03:14 ◼   ► so much I think everybody expected me to buy one.

00:03:16 ◼   ► Hence why I received so many people tweeting and sending me this link.

00:03:22 ◼   ► So I got one for the 12.9 inch iPad which arrived today.

00:03:28 ◼   ► It's fine.

00:03:29 ◼   ► It's nice to have the layout that feels more normal to me.

00:03:31 ◼   ► It has the keys that I'm expecting and the places that I'm expecting them to be.

00:03:35 ◼   ► I'm hitting the return key more accurately because there's not random keys there that

00:03:39 ◼   ► in my mind shouldn't be there.

00:03:41 ◼   ► I get to see the pound symbol, the styling symbol on my keyboard again which is great.

00:03:46 ◼   ► Even though funnily enough I need the dollar sign way more.

00:03:50 ◼   ► But I do get that as well.

00:03:51 ◼   ► still there, it is still there, which is good because that's how it should be, but I wasn't

00:03:54 ◼   ► seeing the pound symbol, I just had the hash symbol, which is also on that key as well,

00:04:00 ◼   ► which is kind of interesting, so I get all of that there. I'm just happy to have it.

00:04:04 ◼   ► The keys feel stiffer, but I expect that's because it's new.

00:04:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I would think so. They'd probably break in a little bit.

00:04:12 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'm starting over with stickers, I've already got a few stickers on there,

00:04:15 ◼   ► because obviously. Naturally.

00:04:17 ◼   ► I have a store for these moments, not a physical store, but a storage of stickers.

00:04:23 ◼   ► Do you have a backup set of stickers for emergencies?

00:04:28 ◼   ► Like you buy a new object and suddenly you're craving stickers?

00:04:32 ◼   ► So you're like "Oh my god, I need to put stickers on this!"

00:04:34 ◼   ► So I don't have them for emergencies, but I do have them for when the new devices arrive.

00:04:40 ◼   ► There is no such thing as a sticker emergency.

00:04:42 ◼   ► No, you think so, but then you are in a situation where you need to buy an object.

00:04:47 ◼   ► unexpectedly you know and it's not covered in stickers

00:04:51 ◼   ► or maybe your keyboard breaks and suddenly you need to buy a new keyboard

00:04:55 ◼   ► and oh my god there's no

00:04:56 ◼   ► stickers on the keyboard so what do you do you keep a backup set of stickers

00:04:59 ◼   ► yeah that's what I do if I were Myke that's what I do. I have backups

00:05:03 ◼   ► I have well a lot of the stickers that I have other than that I love

00:05:06 ◼   ► I always buy more than I need of and I have stickers that I've never used that

00:05:10 ◼   ► are just singles but they come in my sticker subscription or whatever

00:05:13 ◼   ► so I've got a few on there I'd like to try not fill it up too quickly and I

00:05:17 ◼   ► stagger it out a little bit. I need to get some of the Steven stickers from my suitcase

00:05:22 ◼   ► so I can put a Steven sticker on there. I stood in my suitcase from the last trip so

00:05:26 ◼   ► yeah, I'm already putting some stickers on. It's great, I'm happy to have it. I now just

00:05:32 ◼   ► have this US one that I don't really want to do anything with so I have a backup keyboard

00:05:36 ◼   ► in case I ever break my smart keyboard. I don't know how I would do that. It feels kind

00:05:40 ◼   ► of indestructible but...

00:05:42 ◼   ► Maybe when you go to America if you're not blending with the local solution you can use

00:05:45 ◼   ► a smart keyboard with the American layout. That's a good idea, that's a good idea. So

00:05:49 ◼   ► I can speak American. Yes. Everybody's gonna be looking at the return key with the US layout.

00:05:55 ◼   ► They're gonna know, "Oh yeah, that guy's an American." Myke, you also have been spending

00:06:01 ◼   ► time with the Logitech Create for the 9.7 inch iPad. Also arrived today. I got the blue

00:06:08 ◼   ► one. I've got it in my hand right here, you can hear it. There it is. I had to, you know,

00:06:14 ◼   ► I've mentioned this in the past that I put a pen loop on my iPad. I'll put a link in

00:06:20 ◼   ► the show notes to a blog post on michaelswright.com where I detail some of the weird little hacks

00:06:25 ◼   ► that I have for my iPad and my Apple Pencil and it has links to the Leuchtturm pen loop

00:06:31 ◼   ► that I stick on my iPad so I can have a storage for my Apple Pencil wherever I want it to

00:06:37 ◼   ► be. I had to remove this today because the case wouldn't go on. So the tolerances are

00:06:44 ◼   ► pretty tight on this thing. So the way that I look at this right now is that this would

00:06:51 ◼   ► either be on or off. So with that pen loop I either have to keep it on the iPad, right,

00:07:00 ◼   ► which means I can't have the case, or vice versa. So it's going to be one or the other

00:07:04 ◼   ► with this. Am I making sense? Like the pen loop, I always have to have something that

00:07:08 ◼   ► attaches the pencil to my iPad. So it's either going to be attached to this case because

00:07:11 ◼   ► it has a pen loop inside the case or I need to have the sticker pen loop. I can't have

00:07:15 ◼   ► both, I have to have one or the other.

00:07:17 ◼   ► Or you just buy like 600 pencil loops and use a new one every time you take the case

00:07:22 ◼   ► off.

00:07:23 ◼   ► I thought about it, but figured that that's crazy. So I have to make a decision as to

00:07:30 ◼   ► which I'm going to do. Right now I don't have that decision but I want to tell you about

00:07:33 ◼   ► this product a little bit more. I mentioned the tolerances are good, it's because it can

00:07:38 ◼   ► be a bit tricky to get this thing in. So it feels like it's secure, right? So you're like

00:07:43 ◼   ► shoving it in there and it kind of locks in somehow. It's not as hard to take on and off

00:07:47 ◼   ► as the previous one was. And sometimes the iPad has fell out of the case, which is less

00:07:54 ◼   ► than desirable. So like I'm taking the case and maybe wrapping it around the back and

00:07:58 ◼   ► then the iPad slides out. Not good, not good. But it doesn't happen all the time. And like

00:08:02 ◼   ► right now I'm like shaking the thing and it ain't coming out. So I don't know what it

00:08:05 ◼   ► It is that makes it pop out of there but sometimes it does sometimes it doesn't.

00:08:10 ◼   ► This is truly a case.

00:08:11 ◼   ► It is more case than keyboard.

00:08:14 ◼   ► It covers the entire iPad, covers the whole back, covers the whole front.

00:08:18 ◼   ► It kind of has a magnet in it to keep it closed.

00:08:21 ◼   ► It's not a very strong magnet but it is there.

00:08:24 ◼   ► Therefore all the stickers I have on the back of my iPad are covered but I also do have

00:08:28 ◼   ► a back and front of this case which I could cover in stickers if I want to.

00:08:31 ◼   ► It's an important thing to me.

00:08:32 ◼   ► shouldn't be important to you, doesn't have to be, but it is to me. And I've put one sticker,

00:08:36 ◼   ► I put the mic sticker on this and it works, it's fine, it's stuck on there pretty fine

00:08:42 ◼   ► because it has this kind of like weird texture, like a *sucking noise* texture. It's not smooth,

00:08:47 ◼   ► it's got like a bubble texture to it and it's, you know, stickers are a fixing. The problem

00:08:53 ◼   ► with this thing, having this case on all the time, is it is very bulky and heavy. The case

00:09:00 ◼   ► itself, the keyboard case, weighs 1.5 pounds. My iPad Pro is .9--

00:09:05 ◼   ► What's that in a real measurement, please?

00:09:09 ◼   ► Steven, can you do that for me, please?

00:09:12 ◼   ► Yeah, keep talking.

00:09:13 ◼   ► It weighs 1.5 pounds, the iPad is .98 pounds. So together, this whole thing is 2.56 pounds.

00:09:22 ◼   ► 1.5 pounds is 680 grams, I assume you put in there, Steven?

00:09:28 ◼   ► than the iPad at 0.98 pounds is 444 grams. Okay. So the whole thing together is 2.56

00:09:38 ◼   ► pounds. So it is what? 1100 grams and change. Great. Okay. That's not light at all. So just

00:09:47 ◼   ► to put this in perspective, so this thing weighs 2.56 pounds. The MacBook, adorable,

00:09:51 ◼   ► MacBook One, however you call it, weighs 2.03 pounds. This is heavier than a MacBook. Which

00:09:59 ◼   ► is an issue here. My concern is the case and keyboard is harming the portability of this

00:10:07 ◼   ► iPad now and if I harm the portability of the 9.7 I'm harming the main reason I want

00:10:14 ◼   ► and use the 9.7. I have the 12.9 because it's this behemoth but it's heavier. But it's got

00:10:21 ◼   ► like but it's like a powerhouse I can have all this great space but then when I want something

00:10:25 ◼   ► light and portable the 9.7 is what I use now the 9.7 isn't light and portable the other part of

00:10:34 ◼   ► this yes you could take the case off uh and use it and hold it around but then I have this like case

00:10:38 ◼   ► just like what does this case do it just like floats around like it's on the table like it's

00:10:42 ◼   ► not where I need it to be but the point one of the issues with this is because of the heaviness

00:10:46 ◼   ► and the thickness of this thing and the fact that it doesn't really have any way of folding back

00:10:50 ◼   ► around on itself in a comfortable way without me having my hand touching the keys as I'm

00:10:56 ◼   ► trying to hold the iPad to read. All of these things mean that this makes the device not

00:11:00 ◼   ► very comfortable to read on anymore. There's kind of no real great portrait way to hold

00:11:07 ◼   ► this thing, which is also unfortunate. But this is a keyboard primarily, it's what it's

00:11:13 ◼   ► for. And the keys are fantastic. They have good travel to them. It feels way more like

00:11:17 ◼   ► a laptop keyboard because that's kind of what it's intended to be. It's significantly nicer

00:11:22 ◼   ► feeling than the Smart Covers keys. Or Smart Keyboards keys. I did it again, right? What

00:11:29 ◼   ► is it? Smart keyboard?

00:11:30 ◼   ► Yes you did. It's Smart Keyboard Mic.

00:11:32 ◼   ► It feels a lot nicer. Let me see if I can give you a sound of the keys.

00:11:38 ◼   ► That's Apple, right?

00:11:39 ◼   ► No, that's the Logitech one.

00:11:42 ◼   ► Do you have a Smart Keyboard there?

00:11:43 ◼   ► Hang on a second.

00:11:45 ◼   ► Uhm...

00:11:47 ◼   ► You think so? Oh yeah, I do. Hang on.

00:11:49 ◼   ► Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo

00:11:49 ◼   ► Where is it going? I had to go get one. Okay. Okay, so this is an Apple One.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Alright. Right, and then again for comparison's sake, here is the Logitech.

00:12:04 ◼   ► Alright. Yeah. Feels way more like a MacBook keyboard. Yes. Way more towards that end than

00:12:15 ◼   ► towards what the smart keyboard is all about. The backlighting is awesome. It is really

00:12:23 ◼   ► nice to have a backlit keyboard.

00:12:25 ◼   ► Makes you feel like a real computer.

00:12:27 ◼   ► Do you know what though? It's funny, that's true. It does make you feel like a real computer,

00:12:33 ◼   ► which you know, it's nice.

00:12:35 ◼   ► Yeah, whenever I decide to type or to edit at night and I don't have a backlit keyboard,

00:12:43 ◼   ► like I'm trying to conjure up systems to have more light onto my iPad so like I keep a light

00:12:50 ◼   ► on my desk it just feels primitive you know. Or it's like at what angle do you need to

00:12:54 ◼   ► hold this thing so you get some light coming back. Yes it's not ideal. I mean I guess the

00:13:01 ◼   ► like the whole thing is that joking aside you've basically turned your iPad into a laptop

00:13:06 ◼   ► and that sort of defeats the purpose of an iPad. Well no but mine has been though the

00:13:12 ◼   ► constant keyboard attachment no matter what it is turns it closer towards laptop than

00:13:16 ◼   ► what's thought about it. Well, but the smart keyboard you can just

00:13:17 ◼   ► like pull it off and get rid of it or you can fold it back and it folds back in a way

00:13:21 ◼   ► that you're not touching the keys. I mean this thing is more of a clamshell than anything

00:13:25 ◼   ► else. It's closer to the laptop than the smart cover

00:13:29 ◼   ► is for sure. I like that there's a dedicated media and function row of keys at the top.

00:13:35 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a nice thing to have. Here's one of the really weird things. Lots of springboard

00:13:41 ◼   ► crashes. I'm sure it's fine. Mostly when connecting and disconnecting the keyboard

00:13:46 ◼   ► from the smart connector, like to the point where I know it's going to happen

00:13:49 ◼   ► when I do it. Springboard just crashes. I'm assuming this is an iOS 10 thing, I'm

00:13:53 ◼   ► assuming it's maybe also related to the power that's being drawn from the smart

00:13:57 ◼   ► connector. I have no idea what is happening here, but it's happening.

00:14:02 ◼   ► But this doesn't cause too much of an issue. Springboard crashes are fine, I

00:14:05 ◼   ► guess. I mean, maybe you should restore your phone. Mm-hmm. You've had to do that

00:14:10 ◼   ► a lot recently, haven't you?

00:14:12 ◼   ► Yeah, it's not a topic today.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Have you tried using a Mac instead?

00:14:16 ◼   ► Why don't you use a real computer?

00:14:18 ◼   ► That's a good idea.

00:14:19 ◼   ► You know, some people think that we use iPads just because we like the challenge of it.

00:14:25 ◼   ► So maybe you should just come forward and admit that you just like this challenge, like

00:14:33 ◼   ► it's a game.

00:14:34 ◼   ► You're not actually getting any work done.

00:14:36 ◼   ► Really, I hate the challenge and want it to be more like a Mac.

00:14:38 ◼   ► I'm trying to force myself back to the next thing.

00:14:42 ◼   ► The first step is admitting that you have a problem.

00:14:44 ◼   ► So thank you Myke.

00:14:46 ◼   ► So I guess the overall question is, is the typing experience worth the bulk?

00:14:51 ◼   ► I guess you're not ready to answer that just after a day.

00:14:54 ◼   ► I don't know yet.

00:14:55 ◼   ► I don't know yet.

00:14:56 ◼   ► I know that I have enjoyed typing on my iPad 9.7 more than usual.

00:15:01 ◼   ► I really enjoyed it.

00:15:02 ◼   ► But the thing is, overall, this makes the iPad Pro a better laptop when I want it to

00:15:06 ◼   ► to be a laptop but a worse iPad when I want it to be an iPad. And I don't know

00:15:12 ◼   ► which of these I want it to be more. Like what I do know is when I'm at home when

00:15:18 ◼   ► I'm using any of my iPads they are always about 70% of the time they are in

00:15:23 ◼   ► landscape orientation in a keyboard right I was doing this for the smart

00:15:28 ◼   ► keyboard and now I'm doing with this thing and this is more comfortable to

00:15:32 ◼   ► use on my lap it's better because it's more sturdy like it is way better for that stuff

00:15:37 ◼   ► but even with the smart keyboard my iPad Pros are both still a little bit too bulky and

00:15:46 ◼   ► heavy this thing is like a whole other world it feels so heavy because it's a laptop weight

00:15:52 ◼   ► like it's crazy how heavy this thing is now so I'm not sure what I'm gonna do but all

00:15:58 ◼   ► All I do know is I now have another keyboard here. If I get rid of this, which if I do

00:16:03 ◼   ► I will probably return it so I'm holding off from sticking any more stickers on it right

00:16:07 ◼   ► now, just the one that I know I can get off easily. If I do return this then I will then

00:16:11 ◼   ► end up buying a 9.7 inch smart keyboard because I can't have, it'd be crazy to have, for me

00:16:16 ◼   ► anyway I feel, to have different keyboard layouts for my two iPads, it just doesn't,

00:16:21 ◼   ► it just seems madness.

00:16:22 ◼   ► I think that would break your brain after a while.

00:16:25 ◼   ► And I'm gonna, so much money on keyboards, but I guess I use them a lot.

00:16:30 ◼   ► I mean who would spend money on hardware?

00:16:32 ◼   ► It's crazy.

00:16:33 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:16:34 ◼   ► So, you want to talk about Gboard while we're in this keyboard fantasy land?

00:16:38 ◼   ► I do.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Just because, a little bit of follow-up for Gboard.

00:16:41 ◼   ► Gboard was updated to add multiple language support.

00:16:44 ◼   ► I'm still a big fan of Gboard, use it every day.

00:16:47 ◼   ► They added a dark theme, but also the ability to create your own keyboard themes using images.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Why would you ever do that?

00:16:56 ◼   ► I don't know. You click the link that I've given to you. It'll be in our show notes.

00:17:01 ◼   ► And you can tell me what you think.

00:17:03 ◼   ► Yeah, but you can see... I mean, this is...

00:17:05 ◼   ► It's very nice, but you can see how this can be taken to the extreme.

00:17:08 ◼   ► I mean, do you wanna really type on your baby's face?

00:17:12 ◼   ► Some people...

00:17:13 ◼   ► Okay, I don't think anybody should do that. Some people will do that.

00:17:17 ◼   ► Why?

00:17:18 ◼   ► I have created a keyboard out of a version of the remaster artwork.

00:17:22 ◼   ► And I like it.

00:17:24 ◼   ► I mean it's nice looking but it does seem distracting to Federica's point.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Yeah, you'd be surprised how quickly you don't see it though.

00:17:33 ◼   ► I mean it doesn't really surprise me coming from the person with 50 stickers on his iPad.

00:17:37 ◼   ► Yeah, it's more customization for me right, which I love to do.

00:17:40 ◼   ► And I know that this is, I know what people think when they see this.

00:17:45 ◼   ► I know that they're just like, seriously, just go to Android now, like you're too far.

00:17:51 ◼   ► You have gone too far.

00:17:52 ◼   ► Do you know what I say to you?

00:17:53 ◼   ► I say I will not, I'm staying with iOS.

00:17:56 ◼   ► And I love Gboard and I love the fact that I can create my own custom keyboard layout.

00:18:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but I want to comment on the multiple languages, because I feel like Google is missing

00:18:05 ◼   ► real opportunity and it's surprising to me that they're not doing multilingual typing

00:18:10 ◼   ► with simultaneous languages like Apple is doing, like Microsoft is doing with SwiftKey.

00:18:16 ◼   ► You have to switch between layouts.

00:18:18 ◼   ► So you want to type in English, you type in English, then you want to type in Italian,

00:18:22 ◼   ► you tap on the globe icon in Gboard and you switch to Italian.

00:18:26 ◼   ► So you cannot do multiple languages at a time like you will be able to in iOS 10 or like

00:18:31 ◼   ► you already can in SwiftKey, which is a surprise coming from Google because I just assumed

00:18:37 ◼   ► it would be the company, you know, with the resources and with the knowledge to be able

00:18:40 ◼   ► to understand when someone is typing in English and Italian, change the keyboard dynamically

00:18:45 ◼   ► between multiple languages.

00:18:47 ◼   ► But it doesn't seem like they're gonna do that, you know, in this version and it's a

00:18:52 ◼   ► bit of a disappointment honestly. My hope is that it's coming right like this is

00:18:56 ◼   ► step one of that is like implementing the languages and then they do the

00:18:59 ◼   ► language like multilingual language stuff like what how Apple did it right

00:19:03 ◼   ► like they've had the predictive stuff for a while and then they ended up

00:19:07 ◼   ► moving further into it with what they've got now and I'm hoping that they do that

00:19:11 ◼   ► because it would be it is a no-brainer like if you're gonna have people switch

00:19:15 ◼   ► between keyboards like you put that as an option to switch between languages

00:19:18 ◼   ► then you should be letting people type of multiple languages on the same

00:19:21 ◼   ► keyboard. It's like an obvious next step for that. So I'd be very very

00:19:26 ◼   ► surprised if they didn't do that. Very surprised.

00:19:29 ◼   ► Hmm. And the chatroom does point out that that's only really possible within a

00:19:33 ◼   ► certain language set that shares characters.

00:19:36 ◼   ► Of course. There needs to be of the same alphabets typed, right? But Italian and English is, which is what we're talking about, right?

00:19:42 ◼   ► Except for all the pasta emoji that he has that you don't.

00:19:46 ◼   ► That's true. That's very true.

00:19:48 ◼   ► We should have more pasto types in the emoji keyboard and make sure to submit a proposal via Jeremy.

00:19:55 ◼   ► Yeah, he'll do that for you.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm sure.

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00:21:04 ◼   ► So we are trying Dropbox paper this week. Why?

00:21:09 ◼   ► Because I said so. And I get an equal vote with the two of you.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Uh huh. Three votes.

00:21:14 ◼   ► But what is the reason in which, right? Like the follow up from last week.

00:21:18 ◼   ► So yes, I see what you're saying now. We spoke about Quip being acquired by Salesforce.

00:21:25 ◼   ► It's unknown what Quip's future holds. We put forth our theories. But we thought it

00:21:30 ◼   ► interesting time an interesting time to look at other services and last week

00:21:35 ◼   ► Dropbox paper entered like a public beta it's kind of what they're calling it

00:21:39 ◼   ► it's on the web and it's on iOS and it's a if you've used Google Docs or if you've

00:21:45 ◼   ► quit currently Docs paper is like an even stripped down version from that

00:21:50 ◼   ► it's really simple it does really basic formatting there's some things that are

00:21:55 ◼   ► missing that Myke has written a lot about we're going to talk about in a

00:21:57 ◼   ► second but it's it's pretty straightforward and it seems to work

00:22:01 ◼   ► pretty well all three of us have been in out of this document we're all three in

00:22:04 ◼   ► there now and the real-time stuff seems to seems to work I don't think we've had

00:22:08 ◼   ► any any accidental overriding of other people's lines or anything like that

00:22:13 ◼   ► there's a nice indication of who wrote what line so out to the side of this

00:22:20 ◼   ► line like my initials are in purple and the next one Myke's are in red and

00:22:23 ◼   ► Federico's are in green so you can kind of see who put what in I think that's

00:22:27 ◼   ► nice that's something that I think is unique to Dropbox paper I haven't seen

00:22:30 ◼   ► that anywhere else and I think the other kind of nice thing before we get into

00:22:36 ◼   ► some some nitpicky stuff is that it copies a bulleted list from notes dot

00:22:41 ◼   ► app correctly which is not true for a lot of things even even on iOS yeah

00:22:46 ◼   ► because it's simple really but it looks better it looks nicer than what's

00:22:53 ◼   ► actually happening because Dropbox paper is markdown, right?

00:22:57 ◼   ► It accepts markdown, it's rich text and markdown.

00:23:00 ◼   ► So when you copy on iOS,

00:23:03 ◼   ► it's placed in markdown to your clipboard. So then when you paste it into,

00:23:09 ◼   ► uh, to paper immediately, it just recognizes it and formats it.

00:23:12 ◼   ► So it just works really nicely.

00:23:15 ◼   ► The reason this is so happy to me is no other of these document collaboration

00:23:18 ◼   ► tools use markdown natively, like just like flat out on the bottom,

00:23:22 ◼   ► markdown which Dropbox paper does. So I love it for that because when I'm taking my notes

00:23:28 ◼   ► in my Notes app which I do all the time I just copy them and paste them and I don't

00:23:31 ◼   ► need to do any reformatting which for every other system we have ever used reformatting

00:23:36 ◼   ► has always been needed. So for me like just that alone gives this such a big tick for

00:23:42 ◼   ► me like because also you know this is a first class app in that way like it's a split screen

00:23:47 ◼   ► and all that kind of stuff on the iPad like it's great it works it's fantastic I wish

00:23:52 ◼   ► Dropbox would implement that in their main app. But it's great that we have

00:23:56 ◼   ► paperwork in like this, I'm happy, right? All the basics are there. This is a beta,

00:24:01 ◼   ► I know, but I do have some interesting things that I have noticed and some

00:24:07 ◼   ► complaints. Have you filed the radar before we go on? Can you file

00:24:12 ◼   ► radars with Dropbox? I don't know. So consider this my radar. I'm providing an

00:24:18 ◼   ► Naudia radar.

00:24:20 ◼   ► What did they call raiders at Dropbox?

00:24:24 ◼   ► No one knows.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Yeah, we gotta ask a few people.

00:24:29 ◼   ► Crates or like...

00:24:30 ◼   ► Crates.

00:24:31 ◼   ► Have you filed a crate, Myke?

00:24:32 ◼   ► Not yet.

00:24:33 ◼   ► Not yet.

00:24:34 ◼   ► I'm gonna do it.

00:24:35 ◼   ► I'm gonna do it.

00:24:36 ◼   ► So here's something I find really strange.

00:24:37 ◼   ► This is not a problem, it's just a strange thing.

00:24:39 ◼   ► It doesn't use system emoji.

00:24:41 ◼   ► It reformats them into the open source emoji one set of emoji.

00:24:45 ◼   ► Which is a very odd choice.

00:24:47 ◼   ► I don't know why it's doing this.

00:24:50 ◼   ► Lots of other companies have made their own emoji, Twitter and Facebook for example, so

00:24:54 ◼   ► they have them on the web and it's everywhere.

00:24:57 ◼   ► But when you type emoji in on iOS platforms or on the Mac, you're inputting the iOS one

00:25:04 ◼   ► and it just reformats it out to emoji one.

00:25:07 ◼   ► If it's a compatibility thing, which they might be doing here, I don't know why they

00:25:11 ◼   ► don't just default to emoji one when the platform doesn't support, like you know the iOS app

00:25:16 ◼   ► is going to support iOS emoji, why are you doing the work to reformat?

00:25:21 ◼   ► Also in a document collaboration system, I don't know if it is as necessary to do this

00:25:28 ◼   ► as it might be on a web service like Twitter.

00:25:31 ◼   ► Like I just can't work out why they're doing it and it's just a strange choice to me.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Plus they're using an older version of emoji one so they're not got all the great new emoji

00:25:40 ◼   ► stuff so I don't know why you do it.

00:25:43 ◼   ► I don't know why you don't just have the emoji,

00:25:45 ◼   ► the standard emoji put in.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Doesn't make any sense to me.

00:25:49 ◼   ► I'm just puzzled by it, right?

00:25:52 ◼   ► 'Cause at first I thought they created their own emoji set.

00:25:56 ◼   ► And weird.

00:25:57 ◼   ► I hate when the iOS app that you have to tap

00:26:00 ◼   ► an edit button on iOS before you can start typing.

00:26:04 ◼   ► So you open the app and you tap on the text

00:26:06 ◼   ► and nothing happens, you have to hit edit button.

00:26:10 ◼   ► There are many other applications

00:26:11 ◼   ► that don't just let you start typing immediately,

00:26:14 ◼   ► but most of the ones that I've tried, like Google Docs,

00:26:16 ◼   ► you just double tap on the text and you can start writing.

00:26:20 ◼   ► There is another way that you can do it

00:26:22 ◼   ► with Dropbox Paper I found, but it's even more clunky.

00:26:25 ◼   ► If you highlight a word to copy it,

00:26:28 ◼   ► the pop-up says copy, edit, comment,

00:26:31 ◼   ► and then you can click edit and start editing there,

00:26:33 ◼   ► which is a very strange choice.

00:26:35 ◼   ► I don't know, this doesn't really seem like a good way

00:26:38 ◼   ► to go from view mode to edit mode.

00:26:40 ◼   ► I would like to just be able to tap on the text anywhere

00:26:42 ◼   ► and it let me do that.

00:26:43 ◼   ► That would be great.

00:26:44 ◼   ► Or double tap even, which is great.

00:26:46 ◼   ► Another complaint I have on the iOS side,

00:26:48 ◼   ► just a list of documents on iOS,

00:26:50 ◼   ► like there's no way to organize them into anything.

00:26:53 ◼   ► You can't, I can't delete notes.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Like all of the demo notes, they're just there.

00:26:57 ◼   ► There's nothing I can do about them.

00:26:59 ◼   ► I can delete our note, but I can't delete Dropbox's notes.

00:27:03 ◼   ► Again, all of this stuff might be better

00:27:05 ◼   ► on the web app or whatever,

00:27:06 ◼   ► but it's not like this on iOS, which is where I use it.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Also, where are these being saved?

00:27:12 ◼   ► I was expecting, I was looking for this,

00:27:14 ◼   ► I was expecting like a folder or something

00:27:17 ◼   ► that would have these in, but there's nothing.

00:27:19 ◼   ► Aviv, have you found anything?

00:27:21 ◼   ► - No, I think it's like a meta structure of your Dropbox.

00:27:26 ◼   ► Like it's not a file.

00:27:29 ◼   ► It lives in your Dropbox account,

00:27:31 ◼   ► it uses your account to authenticate you,

00:27:33 ◼   ► but it's not like a file.

00:27:35 ◼   ► It's not like a--

00:27:36 ◼   ► - But it seems weird to me considering what Dropbox is,

00:27:38 ◼   ► that that wasn't the case.

00:27:39 ◼   ► Exactly! That's my only hot take on this. I can understand how it fits into what Dropbox

00:27:48 ◼   ► is. I'm storing files and photos and documents in Dropbox and this is super nice. Don't

00:27:54 ◼   ► get me wrong, it's very nice, it's very clean, it does a bunch of things like code snippets,

00:28:00 ◼   ► link embeds, whatever. But it feels like a fundamentally different product than what

00:28:06 ◼   ► Dropbox is. Like if this were a different company called Quip for instance, I wouldn't

00:28:11 ◼   ► confuse it with Dropbox. And now I'm wondering, so how are you... It just feels like a different

00:28:19 ◼   ► proposition than what the main paid service is. And it's like, okay, I mean now you're

00:28:25 ◼   ► also doing collaboration, it's fine, looks very nice. But how does it tie into the main

00:28:31 ◼   ► product, into what people actually use Dropbox for?

00:28:34 ◼   ► So I think that this is primarily created for Dropbox for business and they're just

00:28:39 ◼   ► giving it to personal customers as well.

00:28:41 ◼   ► It feels like another thing in the business suite.

00:28:45 ◼   ► But then why is it not integrated with the other Dropbox functionalities?

00:28:50 ◼   ► I don't see a way to import files into a document.

00:28:55 ◼   ► I don't see a way to save a document into my Dropbox directory.

00:28:59 ◼   ► I don't see integrations with the Dropbox app on iOS.

00:29:02 ◼   ► It's very beta.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I wouldn't even call it a beta, I would say it's in public alpha at this point.

00:29:08 ◼   ► I think part of that conversation is, you guys started here and then you sort of wandered

00:29:13 ◼   ► away from it, but where the files are actually stored, like you don't get a folder of markdown

00:29:17 ◼   ► or text documents in your Dropbox folder.

00:29:20 ◼   ► I have a theory about that, that if you, if they were to treat these documents as if they

00:29:26 ◼   ► were files in your Dropbox, you could actually sync, you know, I could sync this connected

00:29:30 ◼   ► show topics is marked down to my Mac, then I can open it in Byword or whatever

00:29:35 ◼   ► marked editor I want to use, then they've got to deal with not only real-time

00:29:39 ◼   ► collaboration on the web or in the app but also syncing via the Dropbox client.

00:29:45 ◼   ► Yeah, it would kind of blow up wouldn't it?

00:29:47 ◼   ► Well and that can only happen because it's reliant on the file system when you hit

00:29:51 ◼   ► the save button or your app auto saves it. And so I agree with you guys that it's

00:29:56 ◼   ► weird that this is sort of like siphoned off from Dropbox in the sense of like business

00:30:00 ◼   ► like I don't really understand how it fits into their business but it's also siphoned

00:30:03 ◼   ► away from Dropbox as the product. I think they had to do that to make the collaboration

00:30:07 ◼   ► stuff work that you know if you are reliant on the local file system to save you know

00:30:15 ◼   ► every so often then it's going to fall out of sync. That's not to say they couldn't build

00:30:19 ◼   ► a Mac app I mean they could build a Mac app that's a wrapper of this web application.

00:30:24 ◼   ► all quip is, it's all slack is, that's a common thing with Mac apps now.

00:30:28 ◼   ► Where it's basically just a very thin wrapper around a web service. I agree with someone

00:30:33 ◼   ► in the chat room saying it'd be nice to have this as a Mac app. I would like it too just

00:30:36 ◼   ► so I'm not stuck in a tab in Chrome that I can close or move around. It'd be nice.

00:30:42 ◼   ► In that regard, right, because we're getting a million people, I know I can have it as

00:30:44 ◼   ► like a tab of its own window. I know I can use those things where you turn tabs into

00:30:50 ◼   ► apps, right? No one wants to do that.

00:30:52 ◼   ► I just don't want to do that. I just want there to be an app like Slack or like Quip.

00:30:56 ◼   ► I just want that. I just want to throw something out there to go back on what you were saying,

00:31:00 ◼   ► Steven, about how this is tying into business, right? What happened, I mean, I'm still hurt

00:31:06 ◼   ► about this, email. They were doing an email thing.

00:31:09 ◼   ► Yeah. They were.

00:31:10 ◼   ► Should have tied into business. How does this work where Mailbox didn't?

00:31:15 ◼   ► I mean, my guess is that this is something that-- two things.

00:31:21 ◼   ► Mailbox came from the outside, right?

00:31:23 ◼   ► Didn't they-- they bought mailbox?

00:31:25 ◼   ► Is that true?

00:31:25 ◼   ► Yes, they did.

00:31:25 ◼   ► Or did they have to develop it?

00:31:26 ◼   ► Yeah, they did.

00:31:26 ◼   ► So maybe there was just integration issues with teams.

00:31:30 ◼   ► Who knows?

00:31:31 ◼   ► But I had also heard, I think, as well as some other people

00:31:34 ◼   ► did, that that was a very expensive project.

00:31:37 ◼   ► Not even as far as hours of engineering time,

00:31:41 ◼   ► but just keeping it up and running because they're

00:31:43 ◼   ► doing all this stuff with with email servers and a whole bunch of junk. And I would

00:31:48 ◼   ► guess is something like this is probably computationally expensive as well but

00:31:53 ◼   ► it's having been built from Dropbox internally I think makes a big

00:31:59 ◼   ► difference. And if you use this thing it has a lot of a lot of similarities to

00:32:05 ◼   ► the the web commenting features that the Dropbox has as well. We can actually

00:32:09 ◼   ► open a link in a browser and comment directly on it within Dropbox. So it feels

00:32:15 ◼   ► like some of these pieces may have been floating around already and you know I

00:32:18 ◼   ► hope that mailbox isn't assigned that you know paper if it doesn't do well

00:32:23 ◼   ► would go away. I like this product I hope they keep working on it but I don't know

00:32:29 ◼   ► if comparing them directly is super fair but it is a good point right that they

00:32:33 ◼   ► have historically tried things that are outside of their main product and those

00:32:38 ◼   ► things haven't been successful and so this is another example of that and

00:32:42 ◼   ► hopefully they can they can break the mold a little bit. But so far as

00:32:46 ◼   ► for something you know that's very early even though the iOS app does have some

00:32:51 ◼   ► some issues and it's weird that you can't delete the example documents and

00:32:55 ◼   ► you can move things into folders only on the web and not iOS like there's some

00:33:00 ◼   ► there's work to be done here but I think the seed of what they have is pretty

00:33:03 ◼   ► good at this point.

00:33:05 ◼   ► I just worry that it's a good looking distraction from the main Dropbox service and that eventually

00:33:13 ◼   ► in a couple of years time this goes on without any major updates and it's discontinued and

00:33:19 ◼   ► we're all going back to Google Docs.

00:33:22 ◼   ► Maybe they'll finally have split screen by the end though.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Maybe, I hope so.

00:33:26 ◼   ► I don't know, I mean again it's very nice, it's very clean and there's some really nice

00:33:32 ◼   ► For example, a personal favorite of mine is how it shows you the word count for a document

00:33:38 ◼   ► and in addition to words and characters, it also tells you how many emojis have you used.

00:33:43 ◼   ► And by the way, it uses emojis as a plural version, so I'm not sure on that copy there.

00:33:50 ◼   ► I actually think emojis is the correct pluralization.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Oh yeah? It is?

00:33:55 ◼   ► I saw this somewhere else recently. I think the pluralization is emojis.

00:34:01 ◼   ► Okay, so it tells you that. The design is fine and I just worry again that Dropbox has a history for doing these kinds of things.

00:34:12 ◼   ► You know, like carousel and mailbox, paper. And it's usually like, I get it like how internally it's nice to be able to work on something else on the side.

00:34:24 ◼   ► and eventually you realize "hey, why don't we give this to people as well?"

00:34:28 ◼   ► But then engineers go back to the main product, designers go back to the main product

00:34:33 ◼   ► and this is left without updates, just as it is in the first version.

00:34:39 ◼   ► And we're all wondering "hey, what's going on with paper?"

00:34:42 ◼   ► So we'll see. I want to be optimistic, it's just they don't have a track record

00:34:47 ◼   ► for being able to do services on the side.

00:34:50 ◼   ► From the Emojipedia FAQ, in Japanese the plural version of emoji is emoji, but in written

00:34:58 ◼   ► English emoji or emojis is considered an acceptable pluralisation of the word emoji, and Emojipedia

00:35:04 ◼   ► uses emojis as standard.

00:35:07 ◼   ► But usually accepted doesn't mean, you know, it means that it's okay if you use it but

00:35:11 ◼   ► we really prefer if you didn't.

00:35:13 ◼   ► Well if Emojipedia uses emojis, I think we're all good.

00:35:16 ◼   ► Emojis, okay.

00:35:17 ◼   ► Yeah, Emojipedia uses emojis.

00:35:18 ◼   ► Good enough for Jeremy.

00:35:19 ◼   ► They're both accepted.

00:35:20 ◼   ► Alright, thank you Myke.

00:35:23 ◼   ► So just one last little complaint from me because it's just kind of weird.

00:35:28 ◼   ► There are just a few things in this app that are just weird.

00:35:30 ◼   ► External keyboards on the iPad, it does some strange stuff.

00:35:33 ◼   ► It has a formatting bug that I've seen in a bunch of places.

00:35:36 ◼   ► You know where you have an overlay, a keyboard overlay, you know you have like something

00:35:41 ◼   ► will come up over the keyboard which will be some formatting options or something.

00:35:45 ◼   ► Apple Notes does this as well.

00:35:47 ◼   ► When you have an external keyboard on the iPad with this, this doesn't work basically.

00:35:55 ◼   ► You see like a tiny sliver of the UI and you can't actually do anything with it.

00:35:59 ◼   ► It doesn't come up across the screen.

00:36:01 ◼   ► Shift-Tab does not outdent, but there are a lot of apps that don't do this, but the

00:36:05 ◼   ► weirdest one for me, and I cannot even understand why this is the case.

00:36:09 ◼   ► On the software keyboard, if you type an asterisk and then a space, it creates a bulleted list.

00:36:14 ◼   ► Just with the hardware keyboards it doesn't.

00:36:17 ◼   ► And I can't work out why.

00:36:19 ◼   ► If you type in asterisk and a space, it just formats as an asterisk and a space.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Like I just see, it's like how?

00:36:30 ◼   ► How is it happening?

00:36:31 ◼   ► I guess something weird going on with the text input from an external keyboard must

00:36:36 ◼   ► be some kind of bug with, what's it called, an iOS UI text input, the API I think.

00:36:41 ◼   ► I guess, I guess.

00:36:42 ◼   ► It just, I was like, what are you doing?

00:36:43 ◼   ► It's an amusing bug. Or maybe it's something to do with auto-capitalization with external

00:36:50 ◼   ► keyboards. I know that I've run into some odd issues with Scrivener when using the external

00:36:57 ◼   ► keyboard and the auto-capitalization settings. So yeah, there's some weird stuff in general

00:37:02 ◼   ► going on still with iOS when you use a keyboard. And it doesn't... I mean, it's amusing, it's

00:37:06 ◼   ► a fun bug to come across, but it doesn't really surprise me. I guess there's a... Even if

00:37:11 ◼   ► If you look outside of paper, there are still a few inconsistencies with external keyboard

00:37:15 ◼   ► typing in iOS 10.

00:37:16 ◼   ► Oh yeah, there's problems everywhere.

00:37:19 ◼   ► But yeah, I've got to say, my feeling on this is it is more than good enough in its current

00:37:24 ◼   ► state.

00:37:25 ◼   ► There is some weirdness to it, there's some things that they should clean up.

00:37:28 ◼   ► The fact that this is a beta is a good thing, right?

00:37:30 ◼   ► That it's at this stage, but it's in a beta.

00:37:33 ◼   ► I'm happy to keep using it, I'm happy to see where it goes, and genuinely I hope that Dropbox

00:37:39 ◼   ► put the engineering efforts into this product that will keep it running, keep it going,

00:37:45 ◼   ► as something that this would need.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Clearly there is a need for this inside of business because Salesforce just purchased

00:37:52 ◼   ► Quip for a lot of money.

00:37:54 ◼   ► So companies see for whatever reason that this stuff is good in business, I don't know

00:37:59 ◼   ► why, but that is enough of a reason.

00:38:01 ◼   ► I wonder if Dropbox pushed this out there because Quip, because this has been around

00:38:05 ◼   ► for a little while and it was kind of maybe just a beautiful coincidence but it seems

00:38:10 ◼   ► that there's a reason that this stuff exists Dropbox continues to want to push into the

00:38:14 ◼   ► commercial and the business roots so maybe this is part of that and we're just seeing

00:38:19 ◼   ► the fruits of those labors but I hope that they continue to keep working on it.

00:38:23 ◼   ► Yeah we'll see.

00:38:26 ◼   ► This episode is also brought to you by Mack Weldon. Quite frankly Mack Weldon is better

00:38:33 ◼   ► than whatever you're wearing right now.

00:38:35 ◼   ► And when I talk about what you're wearing,

00:38:36 ◼   ► I'm talking about underwear, comfortable clothes,

00:38:39 ◼   ► undershirts, maybe you want some nice tracksuit

00:38:42 ◼   ► or jogging bottoms or sweatpants,

00:38:44 ◼   ► depending on how you would say them.

00:38:45 ◼   ► Maybe you want a really good,

00:38:47 ◼   ► comfortable, great looking hoodie.

00:38:50 ◼   ► Whatever you're looking for in this range,

00:38:52 ◼   ► Macworld and they've got you covered.

00:38:54 ◼   ► Stephen, I know that you have some Macworld and goods.

00:38:57 ◼   ► Would you like to talk about your shopping experience

00:38:59 ◼   ► and your feeling about the clothing?

00:39:02 ◼   ► - I would, so I am one to buy cheap,

00:39:06 ◼   ► I'll talk about undershirts, buy cheap undershirts.

00:39:09 ◼   ► You burn through 'em, they're garbage,

00:39:11 ◼   ► the wife cuts 'em up and turns 'em into cleaning cloths

00:39:15 ◼   ► and all sorts of crazy stuff.

00:39:16 ◼   ► - Is this the normal thing?

00:39:18 ◼   ► - It's the life cycle of my undershirts up until this point.

00:39:21 ◼   ► 'Cause I bought a bunch of Mack Welden undershirts,

00:39:23 ◼   ► and I'm wearing one today actually under a polo shirt,

00:39:25 ◼   ► and it's great.

00:39:26 ◼   ► It's really, I mean, the quality between the undershirts

00:39:31 ◼   ► I've been buying from a big box retailer,

00:39:33 ◼   ► and this new shirt, it's unbelievable.

00:39:36 ◼   ► It's so nicely, it has a nice, I don't know what the word is,

00:39:41 ◼   ► but basically the way it's put together is real comfortable

00:39:44 ◼   ► so you can move your arms around it.

00:39:45 ◼   ► Does it get bunchy?

00:39:46 ◼   ► I just really, it's a great undershirt,

00:39:48 ◼   ► and it's one that I, you know,

00:39:49 ◼   ► if I go back to one of my other ones, I'm sad,

00:39:52 ◼   ► and that's no good for anyone.

00:39:54 ◼   ► No one wants to be sad about their undershirts, Myke.

00:39:57 ◼   ► - I can imagine.

00:39:58 ◼   ► Undershirts seems like an American thing. I've never worn an undershirt. I never see undershirts for sale here heavy

00:40:05 ◼   ► I'm not sure what kind of guy I know that Don Draper had them in his drawer a lot and he used to try on the

00:40:11 ◼   ► Shirts, I said I know that from Mad Men me done

00:40:13 ◼   ► And he went on cut from the same cloth and that cloth is comfortable cloth from Mack Weldon

00:40:18 ◼   ► Also have silver underwear and shirts that are naturally anti microbial they

00:40:27 ◼   ► They eliminate odor which is a good thing. I guess this is some cool science stuff over at Mac Walden

00:40:33 ◼   ► They Mac Walden want you to be comfortable. That's what they care about

00:40:36 ◼   ► So if you don't like your first pair or whatever it is

00:40:39 ◼   ► You buy from Mac Walden whether it's some silver underpants or you buy an undershirt like Steven if you don't like it

00:40:46 ◼   ► They'll refund you but you can also keep it as well. No questions asked. They don't want your dirty undershirts back

00:40:53 ◼   ► You keep them there for you

00:40:55 ◼   ► Not only to Mac World's underwear socks and shirts look good. They perform well, too

00:40:59 ◼   ► They will be good for you whether you're working out going out sitting at home. It doesn't matter for everyday life. They're there

00:41:05 ◼   ► They're with you and your partner probably won't cut them up when you're done with them

00:41:09 ◼   ► Listeners of this show can get 20% off at Mac world and calm with the code connected

00:41:14 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Mac Walden for their support of this show every layer fan

00:41:20 ◼   ► All right, what's next in our lengthy follow-up mini topic episode?

00:41:25 ◼   ► Can you explain why you have like yet another old computer?

00:41:29 ◼   ► So when you ask like that, it hurts my feelings my but it's true though. Do you have feelings Wow?

00:41:35 ◼   ► No, just wondering you seem a very do have feelings. Okay. I just like to show them on the internet very much

00:41:42 ◼   ► Exactly. See see that's why I ask

00:41:45 ◼   ► So the hairs in 1993 how old were y'all in 1993 held were you Myke eight five. How would we yeah?

00:41:52 ◼   ► Stephen was a

00:41:55 ◼   ► 32 already

00:41:57 ◼   ► I was seven seven come on really seven 27 you mean I

00:42:04 ◼   ► Just love this I'm sorry I know please explain what is going on with so in

00:42:13 ◼   ► In '93, some people at Apple decided,

00:42:16 ◼   ► you know, television seems to be an area

00:42:20 ◼   ► that's not going away.

00:42:21 ◼   ► What if we put a television inside a Macintosh

00:42:25 ◼   ► and they did it?

00:42:26 ◼   ► It's called the Macintosh TV.

00:42:27 ◼   ► There's a link in the show notes to an iMore column.

00:42:29 ◼   ► I wrote about it last year.

00:42:31 ◼   ► Not a great computer, not a great television,

00:42:36 ◼   ► but together it's sort of a magical sauce of despair.

00:42:41 ◼   ► And I talked about it on MacPowerUsers a couple weeks ago.

00:42:45 ◼   ► This has been at the top of my list since buying the 20th anniversary Mac for my birthday.

00:42:50 ◼   ► And now I've got one.

00:42:51 ◼   ► A listener of MPU emailed me.

00:42:53 ◼   ► They said they had one.

00:42:54 ◼   ► We worked out a deal.

00:42:56 ◼   ► And it's now sitting in my office.

00:42:58 ◼   ► And it's, like I say, go read the article.

00:43:02 ◼   ► We won't go into it here too deeply.

00:43:04 ◼   ► But basically, and the TAM has this as well.

00:43:09 ◼   ► It's got a TV, like a coax input on the back,

00:43:12 ◼   ► it came with a remote.

00:43:14 ◼   ► The Macintosh TV, the whole case was black plastic,

00:43:16 ◼   ► so it looks unlike really any other Mac at the time.

00:43:19 ◼   ► The problem is that this 32 megahertz computer

00:43:24 ◼   ► didn't have the power to do computing and TV,

00:43:27 ◼   ► so you basically had to switch modes.

00:43:29 ◼   ► So it's not like what we're used to today

00:43:31 ◼   ► with picture in picture, where you are,

00:43:33 ◼   ► you know, you're working and then you have,

00:43:35 ◼   ► you know, a YouTube video or something going in the corner

00:43:37 ◼   ► and you're kind of multitasking with those different media.

00:43:40 ◼   ► This is one or the other.

00:43:42 ◼   ► And they didn't sell very many of them,

00:43:44 ◼   ► it didn't sell very well, it was expensive,

00:43:47 ◼   ► it was like $2,100.

00:43:48 ◼   ► Tidbit's named it the second worst Mac of all time,

00:43:53 ◼   ► which is pretty rough.

00:43:55 ◼   ► They named that before the PowerBook

00:43:56 ◼   ► that the batteries would explode and catch fire, so.

00:43:59 ◼   ► - Okay. - Not great.

00:44:00 ◼   ► - I mean, at least it didn't explode, this one.

00:44:03 ◼   ► - It did not explode.

00:44:05 ◼   ► about 10,000 of them or so made. I don't know how many exist today, not that many.

00:44:08 ◼   ► But it's kind of a weird computer and one Apple played with TV for a while.

00:44:13 ◼   ► Like I said, the TAM has this. Although the 20th anniversary Mac you can multitask, you can

00:44:17 ◼   ► run Mac OS and have like a little window of TV. And they would

00:44:22 ◼   ► eventually, this is so crazy, they would sell basically TV tuner cards you could put into

00:44:27 ◼   ► your power Mac or into your performer or something if it had a card slot. So you could go and

00:44:32 ◼   ► and add this to your Mac if you wanted to

00:44:36 ◼   ► later down the road.

00:44:37 ◼   ► And I really think, we think now,

00:44:41 ◼   ► just how much something like the Apple TV

00:44:43 ◼   ► has blurred the line between a computer and a television,

00:44:46 ◼   ► right, that even if you're seeing your cable box,

00:44:49 ◼   ► you're not really watching straight TV,

00:44:50 ◼   ► you're watching TV through a computer

00:44:53 ◼   ► with all the benefits of a computer.

00:44:55 ◼   ► And I do find that arc interesting,

00:44:58 ◼   ► that here we are, you know, 23 years later,

00:45:01 ◼   ► and computers and televisions are very much

00:45:04 ◼   ► kind of the same thing.

00:45:06 ◼   ► I think that's sort of a fun evolution to keep an eye on.

00:45:10 ◼   ► - What's next?

00:45:12 ◼   ► Are you done now?

00:45:14 ◼   ► You finished buying old computers?

00:45:16 ◼   ► Like, are you done?

00:45:18 ◼   ► - I mean, what do you think the answer is?

00:45:20 ◼   ► - Probably not, right?

00:45:21 ◼   ► But now you've gotten the one

00:45:23 ◼   ► that you were looking for, apparently.

00:45:24 ◼   ► Is there more?

00:45:26 ◼   ► - Well, there's always one more.

00:45:27 ◼   ► I mean, there's always more.

00:45:29 ◼   ► I'm not looking for anything in particular right now.

00:45:33 ◼   ► I would say the spiritual successor to the iMac project is probably coming the end of

00:45:38 ◼   ► the year maybe.

00:45:39 ◼   ► What's that going to be?

00:45:41 ◼   ► Well if I told you it would be really fun.

00:45:42 ◼   ► Is it going to be a computer or something else?

00:45:45 ◼   ► A notebook.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Oh god.

00:45:47 ◼   ► He's going to buy the iBooks.

00:45:50 ◼   ► You're going to need to help me move the iMacs when you're here next week by the way.

00:45:52 ◼   ► I'm not doing it.

00:45:53 ◼   ► It's not to do with me.

00:45:54 ◼   ► Why do I have to touch him?

00:45:56 ◼   ► I'm not sure Myke doesn't put a sticker behind your back on a Mac.

00:46:00 ◼   ► No! Don't sticker my computers!

00:46:02 ◼   ► Yeah, just like sticker stickers.

00:46:04 ◼   ► Don't do it.

00:46:05 ◼   ► I'll get some clear stickers made so you don't even know.

00:46:08 ◼   ► I look forward to seeing the photos of Myke putting stickers on Steven's stuff while he is not watching.

00:46:16 ◼   ► I wish you the very best with whatever it is, computer wise, you do next.

00:46:21 ◼   ► It's so big. Those projects are so large.

00:46:24 ◼   ► were doing the iPods, you know, they're just small little things. It's just huge.

00:46:29 ◼   ► I am. I've got a... so the iPod turns 15 in October and I'll be doing something for that.

00:46:35 ◼   ► I have all of the classics except one model of U2 iPod that is elusive. But, yeah, they're

00:46:40 ◼   ► little. You can just put them in a shoebox. You cannot do that with a Macintosh TV.

00:46:44 ◼   ► It's enormous. Depends how big your shoes are.

00:46:46 ◼   ► I guess that's not untrue. Instagram has...

00:46:53 ◼   ► "Liberally borrowed from Snapchat in the last one."

00:46:57 ◼   ► "Liberally borrowed."

00:46:58 ◼   ► Is that what they did? It seems like they stole it pixel for pixel.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a liberal borrowing.

00:47:03 ◼   ► Down to the name.

00:47:05 ◼   ► It's the same exact feature.

00:47:07 ◼   ► Yeah, it's kinda gross.

00:47:11 ◼   ► Instagram Stories.

00:47:13 ◼   ► What is going on here?

00:47:14 ◼   ► Are you a Snapchatter, Myke?

00:47:16 ◼   ► No.

00:47:17 ◼   ► So are not. Okay.

00:47:19 ◼   ► I have tried to understand Snapchat but I cannot understand Snapchat.

00:47:28 ◼   ► And I know this makes me sound old or whatever but it's just the UI is confusing to me because

00:47:36 ◼   ► I had never paid attention to it for a while and now things are being bolted on, it's being

00:47:40 ◼   ► added to it and it just doesn't really make sense to me.

00:47:43 ◼   ► also none of my friends seem to really use Snapchat that much and I'm just

00:47:50 ◼   ► I've just never really been that drawn to it but I use Instagram a lot I have a

00:47:57 ◼   ► curated a bunch of friends on there right like I pick who I want to follow

00:48:00 ◼   ► stuff that I like I follow we mentioned this before I spoke about us on a couple

00:48:05 ◼   ► of weeks ago like I like to see certain types of things on Instagram like pens

00:48:12 ◼   ► and nice little things that I enjoy in my life and I follow people's Instagrams and it's nice.

00:48:18 ◼   ► It's a happy social network for me to go to. It's your happy place. Genuinely, when it comes to

00:48:24 ◼   ► social networks, yes it is. I don't ever really see anything that makes me sad on Instagram, right?

00:48:29 ◼   ► It's angry, it's just nice stuff. Not even the wrong type of pen makes you angry? No, because I

00:48:36 ◼   ► I don't follow those people.

00:48:37 ◼   ► Okay.

00:48:39 ◼   ► I mean people with good pants.

00:48:40 ◼   ► So they updated with the stories thing.

00:48:43 ◼   ► And so people's Instagram stories started appearing at the top of my timeline.

00:48:48 ◼   ► So I started watching them and I kind of enjoyed it and I can see why people like

00:48:52 ◼   ► this on Snapchat, right?

00:48:54 ◼   ► But I never was interested in Snapchat.

00:48:56 ◼   ► And so now I get to see them on Instagram.

00:48:59 ◼   ► All of my friends are already there.

00:49:00 ◼   ► They're using it.

00:49:00 ◼   ► It's easy for me to see it.

00:49:02 ◼   ► And I liked that.

00:49:03 ◼   ► So I've been, was watching a few and then I had a busy day.

00:49:06 ◼   ► one day this week and decided that I would use it myself and I really enjoyed it. Like

00:49:10 ◼   ► I was taking pictures of stuff and taking little videos and drawing stuff on them and

00:49:14 ◼   ► putting a merger on there. All of this stuff is on Snapchat. I know, but I feel like I

00:49:19 ◼   ► have to say this a million times, but I wasn't using it. I like it on Instagram. It's nice

00:49:23 ◼   ► and simple. I can understand what I'm doing. It's all within the UI that I am aware of

00:49:28 ◼   ► and I know that my friends are there and so they can see my stuff and I can also look

00:49:32 ◼   ► at the stuff that my friends post. So I've been thinking about this as well, right?

00:49:35 ◼   ► Why did they do this? Now, Instagram and Snapchat, I don't know how much they

00:49:42 ◼   ► really compete with each other before now. They were kind of, they're both

00:49:48 ◼   ► photo sharing services, but people share different things on those services.

00:49:54 ◼   ► And over time, Instagram has kind of become the place for people to post

00:50:00 ◼   ► their best most perfect photos right they've really kind of line them up

00:50:04 ◼   ► right and you got to get the filter correct and you got to really kind of go

00:50:07 ◼   ► for that and make it the perfect thing to be a super funny thing on the artistic

00:50:11 ◼   ► thing or like the latte art shot at the perfect angle with the light in from the

00:50:16 ◼   ► window and the flower and the you know it was like super precise stuff what

00:50:21 ◼   ► this stories feature does is allows the people that use Instagram and like

00:50:25 ◼   ► Instagram to post this rougher more like ephemeral things these like little bits

00:50:32 ◼   ► to Instagram without having to worry about destroying the perfectness of

00:50:36 ◼   ► their Instagram feed and also you also don't have to worry about throwing a

00:50:41 ◼   ► bunch of things on Instagram and clogging up your friends feeds especially

00:50:45 ◼   ► now that they don't see these things chronologically anyway right you just

00:50:48 ◼   ► have this random stuff just thrown in there so what Instagram has done with

00:50:52 ◼   ► this is they are protecting the feed, the Instagram feed, to be exactly what people

00:50:59 ◼   ► are used to seeing and the nice photos and imagery that they see. But they're also now

00:51:04 ◼   ► giving Instagram users the place to share this kind of nonsense with their Instagram

00:51:09 ◼   ► friends. I totally see why they've done this. Because Snapchat doesn't have that beautiful

00:51:17 ◼   ► And it would be, I think, really, it would be more of a kind of turn for Snapchat to

00:51:24 ◼   ► integrate something like that, when they have always been about the quick thing.

00:51:28 ◼   ► It is way easier for Instagram to integrate Snapchat's features than it is vice versa.

00:51:35 ◼   ► And if I was Kevin Systrom, this is what I would have done with my products as well,

00:51:40 ◼   ► because they have found a way to give Instagram users the best of both worlds.

00:51:44 ◼   ► And I really, really like it.

00:51:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I wasn't expecting to like or to need something like Instagram stories in my life.

00:51:54 ◼   ► Because I thought, like you, I thought I didn't need this stuff because I didn't like Snapchat.

00:51:59 ◼   ► So it's like, well, I just don't want this in my life. But my problem I found out is

00:52:03 ◼   ► I just don't like the Snapchat experience enough to make me want to go for it.

00:52:07 ◼   ► Yeah, I was under the impression that I would like I wasn't in looking for this sort of

00:52:14 ◼   ► 24 hour rolling diary of my life because the Snapchat app is terrible.

00:52:20 ◼   ► And I think that it's a, I think that Snapchat is really an enormously popular service with

00:52:28 ◼   ► a terrible native app experience.

00:52:30 ◼   ► Whether it's navigation or, you know, design that doesn't conform to any iOS.

00:52:35 ◼   ► Discoverability, like how hard it is to get the filters to work.

00:52:39 ◼   ► Like you have to, oh, it's just crazy.

00:52:42 ◼   ► Yeah, and there's a reason why people use it.

00:52:46 ◼   ► I just personally don't like the way that it's structured.

00:52:50 ◼   ► They do great innovation in many, many different spaces, like with geolocation stuff, they

00:52:54 ◼   ► do innovation with how you talk to people with messages, and the latest photo stuff

00:53:02 ◼   ► with the camera roll integration is super clever.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I just don't like the way that it's designed.

00:53:06 ◼   ► And in Instagram, I think this combination of the raw, personal, sort of non-precise

00:53:17 ◼   ► nature of stories, combined with the beautiful feed and the staged photographs, I think that

00:53:24 ◼   ► there's a divergence here.

00:53:26 ◼   ► And it really does work, because one compliments the other, in the sense that you can see a

00:53:31 ◼   ► person going from the intimate, you know, non-edited, non-curated even stories down

00:53:41 ◼   ► to the feed and the selected photo, the selected, you know, the beautiful view or

00:53:46 ◼   ► the beautiful landscape, the perfectly lit and staged selfie, you can see the

00:53:51 ◼   ► difference and it makes sense to have, you know, more the messier, you know, the

00:53:57 ◼   ► busier story as opposed to the more curated and rare, I would say, Instagram feed, which

00:54:06 ◼   ► sort of speaks already to how, you know, a lot of young people have been using Instagram,

00:54:11 ◼   ► which is, everything goes on to Snapchat, where it disappears after 24 hours, but selected

00:54:18 ◼   ► pictures go on Instagram, and a lot of people, and even some people that I know, after they

00:54:24 ◼   ► they post a picture on Instagram, if it doesn't get enough likes from their friends, they

00:54:28 ◼   ► remove it. So Instagram sort of becomes this wall of fame of the best shots, right? And

00:54:35 ◼   ► a lot of people that I know do this.

00:54:37 ◼   ► I can see why people do that. I've never thought that people did that. I didn't know

00:54:40 ◼   ► people do that. But I can see exactly why people do that.

00:54:44 ◼   ► Exactly. So there's a… Instagram must have, clearly must have seen this behavior. And

00:54:49 ◼   ► They want to appeal to this dual nature of social sharing, which is one that is ephemeral

00:54:55 ◼   ► and that dies after 24 hours, and one that stays as highlights.

00:55:01 ◼   ► And I think it's...

00:55:04 ◼   ► I feel sorry for Snapchat, but also not sorry because they make a lot of money.

00:55:08 ◼   ► But in the principle, I feel sorry because it's never nice to see.

00:55:15 ◼   ► You know, basically Instagram is Samsung-ing Snapchat.

00:55:19 ◼   ► I'm using that as a word and it's terrible,

00:55:21 ◼   ► but that's what they're doing.

00:55:23 ◼   ► And I feel sorry in the sense that the format seems,

00:55:28 ◼   ► at least for me, to work better in Instagram

00:55:31 ◼   ► than it does in the original service.

00:55:33 ◼   ► But I think it makes a lot of sense.

00:55:36 ◼   ► I think they're hungry for those Snapchat users.

00:55:39 ◼   ► And I think Facebook, and especially Mark

00:55:43 ◼   ► and the Instagram people, they're gonna relentlessly fight

00:55:48 ◼   ► to get those users back and to win the perception back.

00:55:53 ◼   ► Because let's face it, a lot of people say,

00:55:55 ◼   ► Instagram and Facebook are for old people.

00:55:58 ◼   ► And on the one hand, they wanna go after those old people,

00:56:03 ◼   ► old in the sense that you're young at 14 and 15,

00:56:07 ◼   ► you're old at 25.

00:56:08 ◼   ► So they wanna go after people like me and you.

00:56:11 ◼   ► And they also want to kind of change the perception

00:56:14 ◼   ► of those younger people, the teenagers,

00:56:17 ◼   ► and to be able to say,

00:56:18 ◼   ► "Hey, you can do that fun young stuff on Instagram too.

00:56:21 ◼   ► Will it work?

00:56:22 ◼   ► Is it too late?

00:56:23 ◼   ► Does it make Snapchat the underdog?

00:56:25 ◼   ► And in a sense, is the underdog

00:56:28 ◼   ► the more favorable character to root for?"

00:56:31 ◼   ► Because when someone is being copied,

00:56:34 ◼   ► you root for the guy that got these ideas stolen from.

00:56:38 ◼   ► So we'll see.

00:56:39 ◼   ► I think Snapchat is going to push back.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Obviously they're not going to say, "Hey look, Instagram copied us.

00:56:49 ◼   ► We're done.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Sorry, goodbye."

00:56:51 ◼   ► They're going to push back and it's going to be an interesting fight.

00:56:53 ◼   ► That's made it a little bit worse if you know the backstory of Facebook at some point attempting

00:56:57 ◼   ► to buy Snapchat and Snapchat said, "Thanks, but no thanks."

00:57:01 ◼   ► And then you go and not only copy their feature but copy their name and some of the gestures

00:57:07 ◼   ► are the same.

00:57:09 ◼   ► really too close to be comfortable for me and I understand what they're doing

00:57:14 ◼   ► business-wise I have no problem with the business end of it but if you're gonna

00:57:17 ◼   ► do that then put your own ideas into it don't just copy what your competitor is

00:57:23 ◼   ► doing I think you're right I think Snapchat will fight back and I think

00:57:25 ◼   ► probably even in a legal sense even though Facebook is much much bigger

00:57:30 ◼   ► that's an impossible fight to win well well I mean if you get caught in court

00:57:35 ◼   ► for 20 years it is, but if it's based on trade dress and patents, then maybe it's not.

00:57:40 ◼   ► That it's a pretty clear ripoff, and I know like Apple people like wave that around, you

00:57:46 ◼   ► made the Samsung joke, all that sort of stuff aside, like this is pretty clear copying.

00:57:53 ◼   ► And so I don't know, like Facebook could outgun them and out-lawyer them, but I would think

00:57:59 ◼   ► Snapchat would have the upper hand and hey this is clearly a violation of our

00:58:04 ◼   ► of our work but I wouldn't want to see Facebook.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Yeah like if you want to see why like you want to think about why did why did

00:58:13 ◼   ► Instagram do this like you just look at the reason that Instagram is part of

00:58:19 ◼   ► Facebook in the first place right like Facebook didn't want there to be

00:58:24 ◼   ► something else that was taking the photos. So they're like, well screw this.

00:58:28 ◼   ► You know, that's why they've done this, why they tried to buy Snapchat, right?

00:58:32 ◼   ► Like the idea is that they just want to be in control of all of that stuff so

00:58:35 ◼   ► they've seen somebody else is doing it and they're just like, nope we're gonna

00:58:38 ◼   ► do it now. And they've just instead of trying to, well instead of buying them

00:58:42 ◼   ► because they couldn't, they've now just decided this is something we're just

00:58:47 ◼   ► gonna do now. This is now our feature too. Calling it stories, I mean I know why

00:58:52 ◼   ► they did that like it's it's because it serves the purpose of what they're attempting to do right is

00:58:57 ◼   ► to win over the snapchat people and to give instant brand recognition but it is weird like

00:59:01 ◼   ► this stuff like stories i don't know if that is a like a generic enough name right like that it

00:59:10 ◼   ► could just be considered the thing because it's not like this type of thing exists in other places

00:59:15 ◼   ► it's not like just a name that you can associate to a 24-hour rolling feed of images you know

00:59:21 ◼   ► Like, to your point Steven, this isn't like a clean thing that they've done here.

00:59:28 ◼   ► They've very clearly just called it this because that's what Snapchat calls it and that's not

00:59:34 ◼   ► the right thing to do. They didn't need to do this. They did it for a clear reason but they

00:59:40 ◼   ► could have given it another name. But Facebook don't care about that, right? Paper. This is what they'll do.

00:59:45 ◼   ► I think saying "have you seen my story" has a nice ring to it.

00:59:50 ◼   ► You know, instead of saying "have you seen my specific feature name?"

00:59:54 ◼   ► They could have called it Carousel.

00:59:56 ◼   ► It's not as simple.

00:59:58 ◼   ► No, but they could have given it any name.

01:00:00 ◼   ► It's like, you know, what is in a name, right?

01:00:02 ◼   ► You just have to have a name be a thing for so long

01:00:04 ◼   ► and then it just becomes what people know it to be.

01:00:06 ◼   ► Like, why was Stories ever a good name?

01:00:09 ◼   ► It was just a name that Snapchat came up with

01:00:11 ◼   ► and now it's one that makes sense because it's the thing that exists.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Because it lets you ease the transition from Snapchat to Instagram.

01:00:18 ◼   ► No, but I mean, they could have called it anything, right?

01:00:22 ◼   ► They still could have marketed it right, but they just decided to go the easy route, which

01:00:26 ◼   ► was give it the same name, deal with the problems later.

01:00:29 ◼   ► Or, you know, I would like to think that Facebook is such a big company and is smart enough

01:00:33 ◼   ► that they've looked into this and have found out that they can just call it that, because

01:00:37 ◼   ► whatever, like, Instagram or Snapchat don't have the trademarks or can't get them or whatever

01:00:42 ◼   ► it would be.

01:00:43 ◼   ► Or they, you know, back to my point, maybe they looked at it and said, "You know what?

01:00:48 ◼   ► We can take a hit, but it's worth the users in the long run."

01:00:53 ◼   ► Yeah, like, we can fight this or we'll at least call it this for enough time that we

01:00:57 ◼   ► get people on board and then have to change it later, but it won't matter.

01:01:00 ◼   ► No telling.

01:01:01 ◼   ► They've probably thought all that stuff through.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Sure.

01:01:04 ◼   ► I mean, Facebook is super smart.

01:01:06 ◼   ► But Steven, what do you think of it though?

01:01:08 ◼   ► I mean I'm like you, I have a Snapchat account and I use it a little bit but it's like you,

01:01:15 ◼   ► my friends aren't really on there.

01:01:19 ◼   ► My friends who are on there are all friends who are in some cases 8 or 10 years younger

01:01:26 ◼   ► than me.

01:01:29 ◼   ► But people like I went to school with or people in my immediate peer group were all on Instagram.

01:01:35 ◼   ► I have found it fun because I'm already on Instagram a bunch to use it.

01:01:40 ◼   ► I have been using it partially to Federico's point because the UI is understandable.

01:01:48 ◼   ► I know we all sound old, but Snapchat's UI is really bad.

01:01:52 ◼   ► They hide a bunch of stuff behind gestures that until you discover them you don't know

01:01:57 ◼   ► that they're there.

01:01:58 ◼   ► It's like it's not even that it's behind gestures.

01:01:59 ◼   ► It's behind gestures they never explain.

01:02:02 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:02:03 ◼   ► one thing I you know the snapchat stories has a lot of branded content there so you go in there is like

01:02:08 ◼   ► The vert you can follow all these publications and they're publishing like little just little

01:02:12 ◼   ► Eyedropper bits of news to you

01:02:16 ◼   ► And Instagram doesn't have any of that I would imagine that stories at some point will be open up to some sort of branded content

01:02:23 ◼   ► If it hasn't already I don't follow any any

01:02:25 ◼   ► hashtag brands on Instagram, but

01:02:29 ◼   ► The interface is better. It's easier to use them already spending time there and my friends are there

01:02:33 ◼   ► So it's a lot of fun and it's fun to have some place to stick something. That's just sort of

01:02:38 ◼   ► nonsense because I definitely fall into that category people who like I

01:02:43 ◼   ► Really?

01:02:46 ◼   ► When I post them on Instagram

01:02:47 ◼   ► I want it to be good and I don't go as far as like the leading things

01:02:50 ◼   ► They don't get much of likes that seems this bridge too far for me

01:02:53 ◼   ► but I definitely think about what I put on Instagram and I try to

01:02:59 ◼   ► share things there that I that I'm proud of and that like have some sort of

01:03:03 ◼   ► you know something to say and

01:03:06 ◼   ► This definitely frees you of that like I've been doing like I did this thing this morning where I checked the relay po box

01:03:12 ◼   ► I like did a little video like I would never put that on Instagram ever

01:03:15 ◼   ► And I want to probably wouldn't put even put it on Twitter

01:03:17 ◼   ► But it's like this weird little pocket where I can do weird stuff in I think that's I think that's a lot of fun

01:03:23 ◼   ► I'm enjoying it

01:03:24 ◼   ► I do wish there was a way to link to

01:03:28 ◼   ► the UI at least, right? Like an easy way. Like you can use like URL schemes

01:03:33 ◼   ► but that's just, you know, like that would be great if I could just do like

01:03:37 ◼   ► Instagram.com/Myke/Story and that'd just be a link that I just send people to.

01:03:42 ◼   ► Right, the stories are not online. Like I'm on the Instagram website right now and

01:03:45 ◼   ► signed in and the stories aren't anywhere, best I can tell. So it would be

01:03:50 ◼   ► nice to see that. Maybe that's something that's coming but my thought is even

01:03:54 ◼   ► with that, they want you to use the app.

01:03:56 ◼   ► And so, I always have felt like the Instagram website exists

01:03:59 ◼   ► because someone made them make an Instagram website.

01:04:01 ◼   ► For a long time, it wasn't here.

01:04:03 ◼   ► Like, remember, when Instagram launched,

01:04:05 ◼   ► you go to their website, it's like, go to the app store.

01:04:07 ◼   ► And now, if you log in, you can see your timeline.

01:04:11 ◼   ► In a chronological fashion, oh, nope, nevermind.

01:04:15 ◼   ► I was getting excited, now I'm not.

01:04:18 ◼   ► So yeah, there's room to grow, but I'm enjoying it.

01:04:21 ◼   ► I think it's fun, and I think that it's,

01:04:24 ◼   ► I think that people are going to like it. I think people who were never going to use Snapchat

01:04:28 ◼   ► will introduce them to this concept for the first time.

01:04:32 ◼   ► And they'll just think it's an Instagram feature, right? They won't know that it got ripped off from Snapchat.

01:04:36 ◼   ► And that's a win for Facebook.

01:04:38 ◼   ► I feel like the conclusion to all this is Facebook is the perfect example of the expression

01:04:45 ◼   ► "Keep your friends close but your enemies and Snapchat closer."

01:04:49 ◼   ► Because this is what they're doing. Basically going after Snapchat time and time again

01:04:53 ◼   ► time and time again and they've seen they've seemed to understand now that

01:04:57 ◼   ► they shouldn't be subtle about doing what Snapchat is doing by you know

01:05:03 ◼   ► having like separate apps or like hidden features and options in the Facebook app

01:05:08 ◼   ► let's just go all in and make it a main feature in Instagram at the top of each

01:05:13 ◼   ► of the main page I guess a very bold copying you know there's copying and

01:05:17 ◼   ► and there's being bold about copying,

01:05:20 ◼   ► to the point where you go on the record in an interview,

01:05:24 ◼   ► the CEO of Instagram saying,

01:05:26 ◼   ► "Well, we appreciate what Snapchat has been doing,

01:05:28 ◼   ► but we think, you know, the stories is more of a format.

01:05:31 ◼   ► It's a standardized format.

01:05:32 ◼   ► It's not their own feature."

01:05:34 ◼   ► And I'm part of that here. - I'm thinking about that.

01:05:35 ◼   ► - But sure, okay, buddy.

01:05:38 ◼   ► Now you realize that, you know,

01:05:39 ◼   ► your main competitor has created a new format.

01:05:42 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know.

01:05:43 ◼   ► - That's like, this is what I was trying to get at earlier.

01:05:46 ◼   ► Like if three or four other companies had done this before Facebook, I would understand

01:05:50 ◼   ► it. But that's not the case, right? Like it's just Snapchat that's doing this.

01:05:55 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah, it's not like everybody, it's not like Markdown where everybody's now doing

01:06:01 ◼   ► Markdown. So yeah, okay, it's a standard. We can, we can adopt standard. It's a, it's

01:06:05 ◼   ► a very specific feature of your main competitor.

01:06:08 ◼   ► Well, in Grubber release, Markdown with an open license. So you can go in and do things

01:06:12 ◼   ► with it. It's not like Snapchat invented the JPEG.

01:06:16 ◼   ► Well, it's like the phrase "timeline." I think that was Facebook's thing first, but then

01:06:22 ◼   ► enough smaller companies started to use it, which wasn't really too much of a problem,

01:06:25 ◼   ► right? Because they weren't big into Facebook. But now that it's just an understood and used

01:06:29 ◼   ► phrase by anybody who has a layout view like that, just "timeline." That is a timeline.

01:06:35 ◼   ► And "timeline" as a word already exists in the same way that stories did. But now it's

01:06:39 ◼   ► It's just like we understand that to be a timeline.

01:06:41 ◼   ► So if there have been, I'm sure there are some,

01:06:43 ◼   ► but like if there have been enough time

01:06:45 ◼   ► or enough applications, we're doing things like this

01:06:47 ◼   ► and calling them stories, then if Facebook

01:06:50 ◼   ► could have come along a few years later

01:06:51 ◼   ► and called it Instagram stories,

01:06:54 ◼   ► it maybe wouldn't have been so much of an issue.

01:06:57 ◼   ► But at least I can't, I don't know of any applications

01:07:01 ◼   ► that do this rather than Snapchat, right?

01:07:04 ◼   ► - I don't either.

01:07:04 ◼   ► - I'm sure that there is like Snapchat for boats

01:07:07 ◼   ► or something that's doing this.

01:07:09 ◼   ► and they have it, but there aren't enough, this isn't enough of a big thing that would

01:07:13 ◼   ► be used elsewhere because there just aren't really a lot of photo sharing services.

01:07:16 ◼   ► You know like Flickr had something called Stories and Photobucket and something called

01:07:19 ◼   ► Stories etc.

01:07:20 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure that a while ago I was pitched Snapchat for dogs and I mean it does sound

01:07:26 ◼   ► ridiculous but also kind of incredible.

01:07:28 ◼   ► Well like you get to see dogs or dogs get to send pictures to each other?

01:07:32 ◼   ► See I don't know if dogs actually interact with the product but I've been meaning to

01:07:36 ◼   ► go back to the tips inbox that we have on the site and check out the Snapchat for dogs.

01:07:44 ◼   ► Maybe Facebook will copy that next.

01:07:46 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:07:47 ◼   ► Why, before we wrap this up, why do you guys think it is in the Instagram app and not the

01:07:52 ◼   ► Facebook app?

01:07:53 ◼   ► Oh, because it's, because my idea is they know that kids and teenagers that have been

01:08:01 ◼   ► using Instagram as a shelf of their most beautiful shots and instead they want to go back into

01:08:11 ◼   ► their routine, they want to get back into their daily usage, not just for those beautiful

01:08:16 ◼   ► shots with tons of likes but also for the raw aspect of daily life, the stories basically.

01:08:26 ◼   ► They want to have more engagement on Instagram in addition to those more special pictures

01:08:34 ◼   ► and they want to go after Snapchat because they don't like the fact that people are spending

01:08:38 ◼   ► tons and tons of time on Snapchat and how impressively they have grown, I mean Snapchat

01:08:45 ◼   ► over the past two years to the point where even in Italy which is usually these things

01:08:52 ◼   ► a while to take off. Now a lot of people I know they say "hey do you use snap?" It's

01:08:57 ◼   ► totally normal and that's a problem for Facebook, that's a problem for Instagram. And to have

01:09:04 ◼   ► those people not spend time in Instagram and not generate revenue and mobile money with

01:09:10 ◼   ► app installs and ad revenue on iPhones and Android phones, that's a problem. And why

01:09:16 ◼   ► is it a problem? Because you don't spend enough time. Because you just open Instagram,

01:09:21 ◼   ► pause the shot, wait a few minutes, doesn't get enough likes, delete the shot, you're

01:09:25 ◼   ► done.

01:09:26 ◼   ► And you know, if I were Zuckerberg I wouldn't like it either.

01:09:29 ◼   ► But now the strategy is to go after Snapchat.

01:09:32 ◼   ► I mean it's...

01:09:34 ◼   ► I don't like the rip and off, but you gotta hand it to them, it's quite impressive how

01:09:39 ◼   ► bold and there have been about it.

01:09:43 ◼   ► Like Ben Thompson and an excellent article on his website, basically they're copying

01:09:50 ◼   ► right. They're doing copying right, in the sense that they're not hiding behind, you

01:09:57 ◼   ► know, different name or different design, just whatever. It's the whatever approach

01:10:03 ◼   ► to copying. And that's frankly remarkable in a way.

01:10:07 ◼   ► Okay. Do you think the same about Samsung?

01:10:10 ◼   ► Well, you know, I have to tell you, in a way, maybe it's way too close for me, because,

01:10:21 ◼   ► you know, writing about the iPhone is what I do for a living, but if I were not writing

01:10:27 ◼   ► Mac stories, I would tell you, yes, it is remarkable how they have been able to understand

01:10:36 ◼   ► they were doing before the iPhone and to change their strategy entirely after the iPhone quicker

01:10:43 ◼   ► than any other companies, it is remarkable. I don't like them, but that's my personal

01:10:49 ◼   ► feelings getting to this.

01:10:50 ◼   ► It's a bias. It's a bias.

01:10:51 ◼   ► I have a bias, but I think externally I would tell you, yeah, it is impressive because from

01:10:58 ◼   ► an industrial standpoint to retool your entire supply chain, how you design phones, and how

01:11:06 ◼   ► how to learn to copy, that is impressive in a way. You know, I'm not saying it's morally

01:11:12 ◼   ► acceptable.

01:11:13 ◼   ► At Samsung, right now, they're past the copying stage. Now they are like neck and neck with

01:11:21 ◼   ► Apple. They do things before Apple can do them, then Apple do things before Samsung

01:11:25 ◼   ► can do them. Right now it's like going backwards and forwards, because I'm looking at, I keep

01:11:30 ◼   ► seeing that edge fun and my word that is a beautiful piece of hardware.

01:11:36 ◼   ► Like the new Note as well, the Galaxy Note, it just looks amazing.

01:11:42 ◼   ► They really know what they're doing, right?

01:11:43 ◼   ► They got all the waterproof stuff set, like it's all done.

01:11:46 ◼   ► I've seen the MKBHD video, they're doing some crazy stuff like the iris scanning, and I

01:11:53 ◼   ► love how on the new Galaxy Note you can highlight a portion of the screen and make it a GIF

01:11:59 ◼   ► to share with people. That's just incredible, man. Come on. That's awesome. And so, yeah,

01:12:04 ◼   ► they've arrived at this stage where they're basically shipping the same really close hardware,

01:12:12 ◼   ► different experiences, but, you know, they're copying each other at this point. It's not even

01:12:17 ◼   ► copying because we're all playing in the same field, essentially. And it's just a matter of

01:12:21 ◼   ► taste what do you prefer? But to come to this, you know, to be here now for Samsung it means

01:12:31 ◼   ► they had to copy a lot before and you know other companies, you know LG, HTC, they didn't

01:12:39 ◼   ► know how to copy, they didn't know how to imitate Apple and Samsung did. And even if

01:12:44 ◼   ► it's personal for me and I have a very strong bias against Samsung, I have to say, you know,

01:12:50 ◼   ► They make a lot of money and they're the only company that's making money on premium Android

01:12:54 ◼   ► phones because they know how to copy.

01:12:57 ◼   ► That's it.

01:12:58 ◼   ► At least they knew how to copy.

01:13:00 ◼   ► Now they're doing their own things, mostly.

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01:15:12 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Hover for their support of this show and relay FM.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Now Stephen you requested that the connected audience shower upon us some Q&A.

01:15:25 ◼   ► Would you like to read the first Q&A question considering you have requested our audience

01:15:31 ◼   ► to give us these. We did this well before we realized we had so much stuff to talk about,

01:15:35 ◼   ► so sorry. Really this only applies to you, but our friend Rob Lewis wants to know how

01:15:43 ◼   ► many Pokemans have you caught. How many Pokemans do you have?

01:15:50 ◼   ► Question for Myke, I haven't really been playing the game.

01:15:53 ◼   ► I have caught and seen 67 Pokemon.

01:15:57 ◼   ► Um, as of maybe the last couple of days, the fun is wearing off for me now.

01:16:02 ◼   ► Uh, I swear I play Pokemon Go.

01:16:05 ◼   ► I see way too many of the same Pokemon.

01:16:07 ◼   ► I'm not finding new exciting ones.

01:16:09 ◼   ► Um, I, they need to add more stuff to the game to try and bring me back in.

01:16:13 ◼   ► But as of right now, I'm not enjoying going out and finding them or finding

01:16:17 ◼   ► it to be a bit of a hassle sometimes, which is a real shame.

01:16:20 ◼   ► Uh, I'm sad about it cause I enjoyed it so much.

01:16:22 ◼   ► but when I'm seeing like 55 Rattatas a day and know like you know I want to see some

01:16:29 ◼   ► more EVs I want to see I've never even seen a Pikachu I've never even how is that possible

01:16:34 ◼   ► that's very sad I remember you taking pictures going on Poke walks with your girlfriend now

01:16:39 ◼   ► fiance so does he mean no more walks no more no more romantic getaways with Pokemon I think

01:16:46 ◼   ► she's still been playing it a little bit more than me I it's just a shame like and someone's

01:16:51 ◼   ► telling me in the chat room I need to level up. I'm level 21. Like that feels like a pretty

01:16:55 ◼   ► strong level. Seems like a lot of level levels Myke.

01:16:58 ◼   ► And you know, there is a thing where I'm like, why is it difficult to find Pikachu in this

01:17:03 ◼   ► game? Everybody wants a Pikachu. Everyone should be able to find one, right? I feel

01:17:09 ◼   ► like that should be the one Pokemon that they may be like at a certain point, like you see

01:17:13 ◼   ► one. Like they do something behind the scenes to kind of try and trick that. But you know,

01:17:18 ◼   ► I feel like everybody should be able to catch Pikachu

01:17:20 ◼   ► if they want one.

01:17:21 ◼   ► I feel like that should just be a life lesson for us all.

01:17:23 ◼   ► So I'm waiting to see, like I've not got rid of it yet.

01:17:26 ◼   ► I'm still keeping it on my phone.

01:17:27 ◼   ► I keep checking in every now and then

01:17:30 ◼   ► when I'm somewhere new.

01:17:31 ◼   ► I'm just playing it less

01:17:33 ◼   ► and it feels like it's maybe going away,

01:17:36 ◼   ► but I'm hoping that it can, I don't know,

01:17:39 ◼   ► that it can kind of bring me back in some way

01:17:42 ◼   ► when they have more features.

01:17:45 ◼   ► I wonder if that's the case with more people.

01:17:48 ◼   ► I'd be curious to know if the trend is going down.

01:17:51 ◼   ► Oh, it definitely has.

01:17:53 ◼   ► I expect that maybe in the last week or so there has been an incredible drop off.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Because it was just too big, right?

01:18:00 ◼   ► So there must have been a drop off, but it depends on what that resting level is.

01:18:04 ◼   ► And we'll see.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Like, they still haven't launched it in all the territories they want to launch it in.

01:18:07 ◼   ► I don't think it's in Brazil yet, so.

01:18:11 ◼   ► Or China.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Is it not in China yet?

01:18:13 ◼   ► I don't think so. They launched in some Asian countries today, but not in India and China.

01:18:18 ◼   ► So they still have a long way to go. So even if they're losing people, they can bring them on.

01:18:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:18:23 ◼   ► The next question is from someone named Casey Liss. Casey Lice? I'm going to go with Lice.

01:18:31 ◼   ► Casey Lice sounds like a problem you've got to take care of.

01:18:35 ◼   ► He said, "Why do you guys like beards so much?"

01:18:41 ◼   ► Yeah, because I'm lazy. I don't have time. There's a very timely tweet from some avatar

01:18:50 ◼   ► on Twitter with a picture of Sean Murray, he's one of the developers of No Man's Sky.

01:18:56 ◼   ► By the way, it's the game I'm gonna play tonight, a day before Myke. Let it be known that I'm

01:19:01 ◼   ► playing No Man's Sky before Myke, after like three years of waiting. Anyway, there's a

01:19:07 ◼   ► series of pictures of Sean Murray from I guess 2013 to 2016 and he's progressively not shaving

01:19:16 ◼   ► and the caption is "game development" and the final picture...

01:19:19 ◼   ► Also I like the last one where it looks like he's a zombie.

01:19:22 ◼   ► His eyes look super red.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Yes, and his beard is quite impressive and there's like merchandising behind his back.

01:19:30 ◼   ► So yeah, I feel like my beard grows more whenever I'm busier, and so I'm writing my IS10 review,

01:19:40 ◼   ► I'm actually editing my IS10 review now, and I have quite a beard and I need to shave.

01:19:45 ◼   ► And I feel like there's a direct correlation between busyness and not shaving,

01:19:53 ◼   ► so I'm gonna go with lazy and there's just no time to sit down and do that.

01:19:59 ◼   ► I didn't read who submitted this question, I just read the question. So when I wrote

01:20:07 ◼   ► it first I was like "huh, this person, what he's saying is for now, it's just like what's

01:20:10 ◼   ► even the point? It's KC, lice, like this guy, he doesn't, the reason he can't have a beard

01:20:16 ◼   ► is because of the lice I think." Just frankly, I feel more comfortable with a beard.

01:20:25 ◼   ► Can you have beard lice?

01:20:27 ◼   ► Probably.

01:20:28 ◼   ► Wow, that still looks terrible.

01:20:30 ◼   ► I have had facial hair for over 10 years in some form.

01:20:34 ◼   ► I think that my face looks better with facial hair.

01:20:36 ◼   ► I think I look cooler with a beard.

01:20:39 ◼   ► I feel smarter when I am thinking and I've got my hand in a beard, right?

01:20:45 ◼   ► And I think it looks cool and I think Casey needs to grow...

01:20:49 ◼   ► Casey looks really good with a beard.

01:20:51 ◼   ► Now, if my memory is correct, he lets his facial hair grow out over Christmas, and he

01:20:57 ◼   ► looks really good.

01:20:58 ◼   ► He just won't go far enough.

01:21:00 ◼   ► Makes me sad.

01:21:02 ◼   ► Come on, Casey.

01:21:03 ◼   ► Let the handsome out.

01:21:05 ◼   ► I have a beard the same reason you do, Myke.

01:21:07 ◼   ► I've had facial hair for a really long time.

01:21:09 ◼   ► I think I look like a child without it.

01:21:11 ◼   ► So for me, I don't look like me.

01:21:14 ◼   ► I've been clean-shaven like three times in a decade, and I always feel like I look like

01:21:18 ◼   ► somebody else.

01:21:19 ◼   ► this sounds quite silly but my dad is, you know, he's from another generation and he's

01:21:25 ◼   ► not used to travel much, but whenever I go back home and I usually go for dinner with

01:21:32 ◼   ► my parents and he tells me, like he looks at me and starts shaking his head and he's

01:21:37 ◼   ► like "Why do you keep growing this beard?" and I'm like "Hold on, come on, every time

01:21:43 ◼   ► you tell me this" and he's like "Sooner or later you're gonna be stopped at the airport

01:21:48 ◼   ► by the police and they're gonna ask you questions and I'm like that that is very unlikely that

01:21:53 ◼   ► it's gonna happen to me but that has happened to me that as I know I know but you know I

01:21:59 ◼   ► don't have that long a beard I an airport border once coming into the United Kingdom

01:22:06 ◼   ► back from America I had a lady asked me what's with the beard to which I have responded I

01:22:14 ◼   ► I think it looks good. So maybe that person was Casey in disguise.

01:22:18 ◼   ► Or maybe it was my dad. I don't know.

01:22:20 ◼   ► Did he have grappa with him?

01:22:23 ◼   ► That was the problem.

01:22:25 ◼   ► Up next, another Casey. This is like the little Casey section.

01:22:29 ◼   ► Casey, some last name that I'm not going to try.

01:22:33 ◼   ► Oh come on, come on.

01:22:35 ◼   ► Broughton? Broughton? The DHT is throwing me off. Broughton.

01:22:39 ◼   ► Casey Broughton asks, "What email apps are you using and why?"

01:22:45 ◼   ► So we answer this every time.

01:22:46 ◼   ► People are really interested in email apps.

01:22:48 ◼   ► I use Mail.app everywhere because it seems to get the job done.

01:22:56 ◼   ► What about you guys?

01:22:57 ◼   ► >>Tichy, I want to know what you're using.

01:22:59 ◼   ► >>Yeah, so I've been trying the Apple Mail app since beta one of iOS 10 just to get comfortable

01:23:06 ◼   ► again and see what's changed.

01:23:09 ◼   ► And after, I feel like this happens every year, after being very disappointed by the

01:23:14 ◼   ► lack of changes, I went back, I know right? It's like every year, yeah, I'm trying

01:23:20 ◼   ► to have full mail again, it's nice. Then after a couple of months, like, what am I

01:23:24 ◼   ► doing? What is going on here? So I'm back to ARML. Probably because I really do miss

01:23:31 ◼   ► two features. Push notifications. I know I shouldn't obsess over email, you know, all

01:23:37 ◼   ► that stuff but it seems like Apple Mail for whatever reason it can never check

01:23:42 ◼   ► for changes every 15 minutes like I tell it to do. I don't know what is

01:23:46 ◼   ► going on I use Gmail so that's probably the reason why. And I like the second

01:23:51 ◼   ► feature that I like in airmail is the app integrations so I can send an email

01:23:54 ◼   ► message with a link back to the message that will open the message in airmail to

01:23:59 ◼   ► todoist, todo, you know any other task manager or communication app that I use

01:24:05 ◼   ► on iOS. It's really well done. It's getting better that I'm testing this update that they're

01:24:09 ◼   ► doing for iOS 10 and a bunch of changes. Very nice. I know the developers, they're Italian,

01:24:14 ◼   ► so you know, extra points. I'm using ML. Love it.

01:24:18 ◼   ► I use ML because of Federico. I listened to him on episode 10 of Canvas and switched immediately.

01:24:25 ◼   ► There are a few things that I really like about it. There are some things that frustrate

01:24:28 ◼   ► me about ML. There's some weird, it just does some weird stuff every now and then.

01:24:35 ◼   ► But the things that it does well, it does so well that I'm willing to look over and

01:24:40 ◼   ► look past some of the weird bugs and strangeness that it has.

01:24:44 ◼   ► You mentioned about sending emails out to other services.

01:24:48 ◼   ► I'm able to send an email message out to OmniFocus, it appends the entire message in the note,

01:24:52 ◼   ► and I'm able to jump back to the email if I need to grab an attachment out of it or

01:24:56 ◼   ► something.

01:24:57 ◼   ► And that has changed the way that I deal with email because I'm able to get email out to

01:25:01 ◼   ► my task manager a lot easier.

01:25:03 ◼   ► I'm also able to have tasks with contacts to them,

01:25:06 ◼   ► so I don't need to write out notes or whatever to myself,

01:25:08 ◼   ► which is great.

01:25:10 ◼   ► And I love how easy it is to turn email messages into PDFs,

01:25:14 ◼   ► which lends into my system now of trying to replace

01:25:18 ◼   ► Evernote with Notes, right?

01:25:20 ◼   ► I'm able to just create PDFs of travel emails

01:25:22 ◼   ► and add them straight to Notes.

01:25:24 ◼   ► M-A-L is great across all platforms.

01:25:28 ◼   ► I really, really like it.

01:25:29 ◼   ► And I feel like I'm just scratching the surface

01:25:31 ◼   ► of its power.

01:25:32 ◼   ► every time I think I wonder if it can do this, it can do it.

01:25:36 ◼   ► And I read a little bit for that.

01:25:38 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:25:39 ◼   ► - I may give it another run here.

01:25:40 ◼   ► If you guys are both sticking with it for the song.

01:25:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it's a generally a good sign

01:25:46 ◼   ► when I'm using something else as a test

01:25:50 ◼   ► and I find myself missing the original app

01:25:53 ◼   ► and that happened with Hermel.

01:25:54 ◼   ► That's usually a good indication of the fact

01:25:56 ◼   ► that it's a good app and I wanna go back to it.

01:25:58 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:25:59 ◼   ► - Cool.

01:26:01 ◼   ► Steven Fraser asks, naked phones or cased phones?

01:26:06 ◼   ► - Case is forever.

01:26:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, I gotta go with Myke here.

01:26:12 ◼   ► I've been a case free person for most of my iPhone years,

01:26:17 ◼   ► but in the past couple of years since the iPhone 6 really,

01:26:22 ◼   ► when I realized every year I'm just gonna buy

01:26:24 ◼   ► a really expensive phone and it's gonna be the plus model

01:26:28 ◼   ► with a lot of storage and I wanna be able

01:26:31 ◼   ► to sell it, you know, next year and I want to be able to sell it in good condition,

01:26:35 ◼   ► then I gotta go with the case.

01:26:37 ◼   ► Because these phones are so big, they're easy to drop and I don't want to drop them.

01:26:40 ◼   ► I smash them into a bajillion pieces.

01:26:42 ◼   ► The only thing I'm gonna say, I'm using the Apple silicon case and sometimes my jeans

01:26:49 ◼   ► are a little tight and it's hard to pull out of my...

01:26:53 ◼   ► No, I mean just the model, you know, the design.

01:26:57 ◼   ► I know.

01:26:58 ◼   ► Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

01:26:59 ◼   ► I bet you look real good in them.

01:27:01 ◼   ► There's a lot of grip between the case and the fabric of the jeans.

01:27:09 ◼   ► And I don't know what you're doing with this, but still, I wish it was a different texture.

01:27:16 ◼   ► That's all I'm saying.

01:27:17 ◼   ► Well, if you tried the leather, it's definitely better for this.

01:27:19 ◼   ► I don't like the way that it ages.

01:27:22 ◼   ► Oh man, it's great.

01:27:25 ◼   ► No, leather is for old people.

01:27:27 ◼   ► I was gonna say I usually don't use a case but if I do I use the black leather

01:27:33 ◼   ► Apple case and how many iPhones are you on didn't this round?

01:27:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I've had a bad

01:27:40 ◼   ► I did break a 6s plus last year, but um

01:27:46 ◼   ► The the leather case is nice. It's it solves the problem. I have the same problem with the silicon case

01:27:53 ◼   ► I actually tried one ended up returning it for that reason Federico that you stick in your pocket is like

01:27:57 ◼   ► Velcroed itself to the inside. Yes. Yes. I think maybe my jeans just aren't as tight as yours

01:28:02 ◼   ► Maybe I bet you don't look good Myke. I always look good

01:28:06 ◼   ► Yeah, it's because of the facial hair. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's right. The the silicon case really grips the beard hair

01:28:12 ◼   ► I don't even need to hold my phone

01:28:14 ◼   ► Anyway, it just sticks to the side of my head when I talk on it. That's kind of gross. But okay

01:28:22 ◼   ► listener Sebastian writes in and it's a really long thing you can find these in the show notes, but it boils down to which iPad

01:28:29 ◼   ► He should buy based on

01:28:31 ◼   ► Email browsing the web maybe doing some Adobe comp work

01:28:35 ◼   ► Not doing you know

01:28:37 ◼   ► It doesn't seem like going full in on the on the iPad like like some people have they still keeping a Mac

01:28:43 ◼   ► Which iPad should I get and most importantly which color I?

01:28:47 ◼   ► I recommend get the 9.7 for this person's use case because they seem like they want to just do some stuff and

01:28:54 ◼   ► Still use a Mac get the keyboard. So you take advantage of all the space when you're typing

01:28:59 ◼   ► It's more comfortable for everyday use the 9.7

01:29:01 ◼   ► But if you do want to replace your laptop you think that's something you really want to do then go to 12.9

01:29:06 ◼   ► But the 9.7 is a better complementary device if you're still planning on using a Mac frequently as well and I recommend gold

01:29:14 ◼   ► hmm

01:29:17 ◼   ► - T.G., you recommend gold now too, right?

01:29:20 ◼   ► - I do.

01:29:21 ◼   ► I'm just wondering if maybe next year I wanna go back

01:29:24 ◼   ► to the black iPads, black phones everywhere.

01:29:28 ◼   ► Just because I feel like I've been missing having

01:29:31 ◼   ► you know, the black front of the iPhone.

01:29:36 ◼   ► I really do miss it.

01:29:37 ◼   ► And sometimes when I'm reading on the iPad Pro at night

01:29:40 ◼   ► and I look at the white bezel, you know,

01:29:43 ◼   ► I kind of wish it was black.

01:29:45 ◼   ► but I gotta say the gold back looks amazing so my wish is for Apple to make

01:29:51 ◼   ► a black iPhone and a black iPad with the gold back

01:29:55 ◼   ► that would look good

01:29:56 ◼   ► black and gold yeah? I don't know with my next phone if I'm going with rose gold or gold

01:30:01 ◼   ► but it's going to be one of those two

01:30:03 ◼   ► I might go rose gold that looks great

01:30:06 ◼   ► man all black all the time I really don't like the white cover glass

01:30:12 ◼   ► The last question we have is from Mr. Rebo.

01:30:16 ◼   ► How do you feel about IOS 10's control center in particular about having to swipe to access the volume control?

01:30:22 ◼   ► So if you're not familiar on IOS 10, control center is now split into multiple panes.

01:30:28 ◼   ► So before you had brightness and volume sliders kind of on top of each other.

01:30:32 ◼   ► Now you have all your hardware controls, brightness, airplane airdrop, and then if you go over you have a media preview.

01:30:40 ◼   ► So like the album you're listening to, its playback position, play controls, and then volume.

01:30:45 ◼   ► So it's up and over, get to volume. How do you guys feel about that?

01:30:49 ◼   ► So I just checked in Scrivener and the control center section is 3,000 words.

01:30:56 ◼   ► So I'll try to keep it short.

01:30:58 ◼   ► And I feel like it takes some time to get used to, but overall I think it's an improvement.

01:31:08 ◼   ► It's not perfect. I don't like the design of the main page, the first one with the system shortcuts.

01:31:15 ◼   ► I think they should do more and it's time to make it customizable. So I have a whole bunch of complaints,

01:31:21 ◼   ► but overall I think the idea works. But it takes you a while to get used to it. And it especially

01:31:26 ◼   ► works if you listen to a lot of music and if you do a lot of play and pause or tweak the volume,

01:31:33 ◼   ► or listen to podcasts and use the skipping controls.

01:31:37 ◼   ► I think it works. I'm a fan. There's a whole list of

01:31:41 ◼   ► complaints that I have, but it takes a few weeks to

01:31:45 ◼   ► go all in with the idea. And it

01:31:49 ◼   ► makes a lot more sense on the iPhone than the iPad.

01:31:53 ◼   ► I've only played with it on my iPad and I haven't got

01:31:57 ◼   ► a lot of complex thoughts yet and I feel like I'm not

01:32:01 ◼   ► able to fully get a picture on this because it's not on my iPhone yet. I have not got

01:32:05 ◼   ► 10 on my iPhone. Do it. No I'm not going to do it yet. I'm not doing it yet. I don't need

01:32:11 ◼   ► it. I'm fine. I'm deciding to keep the stability of my iPhone for a while because I use my

01:32:17 ◼   ► iPads so much when I'm at home it is giving, it's sufficing my need to check out iOS 10.

01:32:24 ◼   ► I don't need to put it on my phone right now. That's fair. And we should add too that Control

01:32:29 ◼   ► Center will pick up a third pane if you have the home kit stuff set up so you can

01:32:33 ◼   ► you can save scenes and some controls into there. Unlike Federico I do think it's

01:32:39 ◼   ► probably better. I like the media page and having the preview of what you're

01:32:43 ◼   ► listening to you have more information about it. I do wish maybe that you could

01:32:47 ◼   ► maybe set the order because 90% of the time when I go into Control Center it is to do

01:32:53 ◼   ► media stuff. It is not to launch the calculator or the flashlight and it would

01:32:57 ◼   ► be nice to be able to like reorder those panes. But it's not the end of the world.

01:33:01 ◼   ► It could also just be context-worth. If audio is playing, then that should be the first

01:33:06 ◼   ► one.

01:33:06 ◼   ► What Apple is doing is they remember your last viewed page. So if you dismiss Control

01:33:10 ◼   ► Center and you're viewing the "Now Playing" card, when you open it again, it'll open to

01:33:15 ◼   ► that page.

01:33:15 ◼   ► Okay. That's kind of cool. But still. If a podcast is playing on the speakers, like,

01:33:20 ◼   ► give me that view. But I guess that could end up being more confusing if it keeps switching

01:33:24 ◼   ► around. I don't know.

01:33:27 ◼   ► Is that the end of the questions?

01:33:29 ◼   ► That's all we're going to do for today.

01:33:31 ◼   ► Awesome.

01:33:32 ◼   ► We'll be back next week, a little later in the week.

01:33:35 ◼   ► Federico is going on summer vacation and me and Steven are going to be together in Memphis

01:33:41 ◼   ► and we're going to be recording on the 18th which will be our anniversary for Relay FM's

01:33:47 ◼   ► second year.

01:33:48 ◼   ► So look out for that a little bit later on next week.

01:33:51 ◼   ► If you want to find Federico online he'll be posting pictures of himself on the beach

01:33:55 ◼   ► on his Instagram Snapchat story, which is @vitiaci.

01:34:02 ◼   ► You have @vitiaci on Instagram, right?

01:34:05 ◼   ► I think so, yeah.

01:34:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I think you are.

01:34:07 ◼   ► You're also on Twitter, @vitiaci.

01:34:09 ◼   ► Steven is @ismh on Twitter only.

01:34:11 ◼   ► Steven, what is your Instagram?

01:34:15 ◼   ► Steven M Hackett.

01:34:18 ◼   ► Someone else has @ismh, don't search it.

01:34:20 ◼   ► It's terrifying.

01:34:21 ◼   ► Yeah, really.

01:34:22 ◼   ► Seriously, I know that sounds like, "Ah, it's a fun thing."

01:34:24 ◼   ► Don't do it.

01:34:25 ◼   ► I'm gonna search for it. No. You're gonna see what's up. You're gonna regret it.

01:34:28 ◼   ► Yeah you really seriously you don't want to. It's gonna mess you up.

01:34:32 ◼   ► So Stephen M Hackett on Instagram. Stephen M Hackett on Instagram this is what.

01:34:37 ◼   ► Okay. Or is it ISMH. Don't do it. Alright and I am @imike everywhere.

01:34:45 ◼   ► Thanks so much to our sponsors this week. The fine folk over at Hover,

01:34:50 ◼   ► Mac Worlden and of course Braintree. We will be back next time until then say goodbye guys

01:34:57 ◼   ► Adios, adios