Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 106. Today's show is brought to you by

00:00:12 ◼   ► Eero, Pingdom and Freshbooks. My name is Myke Curley

00:00:15 ◼   ► and I'm joined by Federico Vittigi. Ciao Federico! Ciao Myke!

00:00:19 ◼   ► And Stephen Hackett. Hello Stephen Hackett. Hello Michael Hurley.

00:00:23 ◼   ► You should have said Howdy. I should have said Howdy.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I messed up. Should I just start all over again? From Relay? Should I just do that again?

00:00:30 ◼   ► Is that good? No. Is that how that works? No? No. We're just gonna push through, right?

00:00:34 ◼   ► I'm just gonna go right to follow up. Follow up.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Follow up. So we had a couple people tweet. We will give credit to Jonathan on Twitter

00:00:44 ◼   ► talking about Apple Music and how you have to be an Apple Music subscriber to get access

00:00:51 ◼   ► to it. And it also seems like festival video streams will also be available only to Apple

00:00:59 ◼   ► Music members. So in the past you could download, like they had an iPad app or you get it from

00:01:03 ◼   ► iTunes even way back and watch concerts and it seems like even that is going to be locked

00:01:08 ◼   ► into the Apple Music ecosystem this year. Which is a, you know, eh.

00:01:16 ◼   ► I mean this is obvious to me, like as soon as I saw the tickets go out, like obviously

00:01:20 ◼   ► they're gonna put it behind the wall.

00:01:22 ◼   ► So yeah, I was a little surprised by it, but I guess I was not being as cynical as the

00:01:28 ◼   ► two of you.

00:01:29 ◼   ► I'm not being cynical.

00:01:31 ◼   ► I'm just like...

00:01:32 ◼   ► I mean, I'm not gonna pay for Apple Music to see him, so I'm not gonna see him, which

00:01:34 ◼   ► is a little bit of a bummer.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Would you have watched them?

00:01:37 ◼   ► Do you?

00:01:38 ◼   ► If there's someone that I want to see, then yes.

00:01:41 ◼   ► All right.

00:01:42 ◼   ► I don't know why I found the question funny.

00:01:45 ◼   ► I don't know why.

00:01:46 ◼   ► Well, I don't know.

00:01:47 ◼   ► Do they have any of your old man music?

00:01:49 ◼   ► (laughter)

00:01:51 ◼   ► - Up next, I wanted to point people to a article

00:01:59 ◼   ► by our friend Jason Snell over at iMore.

00:02:02 ◼   ► He wrote his column this month about the age

00:02:05 ◼   ► of dramatic Apple event reveals being over.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Something we talked about maybe even in the prompt days

00:02:12 ◼   ► way far back about how going into these events

00:02:15 ◼   ► there's not as many surprises as there used to be

00:02:17 ◼   ► thanks to Supply Chain Links and Mark Gorman.

00:02:20 ◼   ► - Mark Gorman. - Whatever it is he does.

00:02:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:02:23 ◼   ► We're gonna talk about the event here in a couple minutes,

00:02:26 ◼   ► but I wanted to highlight that.

00:02:27 ◼   ► I think it's a nice article and I think that it's,

00:02:29 ◼   ► you know, it is different than it used to be

00:02:31 ◼   ► and Jason argues that that's okay.

00:02:34 ◼   ► So I think I agree.

00:02:36 ◼   ► - I think it is okay, I agree with that.

00:02:37 ◼   ► It's sad, but at least, you know,

00:02:41 ◼   ► I'm happy that I had a time where that was a thing, right?

00:02:44 ◼   ► Where it was like, what's it gonna be?

00:02:46 ◼   ► But now there is kind of just a different enjoyment in knowing,

00:02:50 ◼   ► because we have all of the stuff to talk about and think about in the run-up.

00:02:54 ◼   ► It's just a different thing.

00:02:56 ◼   ► You can prepare your credit card.

00:02:57 ◼   ► I'd argue that we're not getting surprises for hardware anymore,

00:03:02 ◼   ► but we're still getting surprises for software.

00:03:04 ◼   ► I mean, look at WWDC and how nobody knew what iOS 10 and Sierra,

00:03:08 ◼   ► I mean, the new OS 10 at the time, were going to be like.

00:03:12 ◼   ► So we're getting surprises in a different way.

00:03:14 ◼   ► Maybe at the developer conference because that's what Apple can control more.

00:03:17 ◼   ► We're not getting surprises in September anymore.

00:03:19 ◼   ► And also like Myke, I'm glad that I got to experience that when you know the music event

00:03:24 ◼   ► when it used to be in September and people were like talking about the new iPhone, the

00:03:28 ◼   ► new iPods a few years ago.

00:03:30 ◼   ► Now we're kind of doing that in a different way for software because we don't know I mean

00:03:33 ◼   ► what's the new Apple Music Redesign going to be like?

00:03:36 ◼   ► What's you know what's coming to iOS?

00:03:38 ◼   ► What's coming to iOS for iPad?

00:03:40 ◼   ► You know, joke there.

00:03:42 ◼   ► But so yeah, it's different, I guess.

00:03:44 ◼   ► I wanted to mention that I am still using To-Do for my task management.

00:03:48 ◼   ► We spoke about this on our membership show, and an app that Federico, you covered extensively

00:03:54 ◼   ► on Mac Stories a while back, and you're using Todoist again.

00:03:58 ◼   ► People can go, if you haven't heard it, you should go listen to the Canvas episodes.

00:04:02 ◼   ► Y'all have done what, three of them now on GTD apps?

00:04:06 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:04:07 ◼   ► We'll link to those in the show notes.

00:04:08 ◼   ► So they're all really good, one on OmniFocus, one on Todoist, the latest one on To Do, Ben

00:04:13 ◼   ► Brooks set in for you.

00:04:15 ◼   ► And it's a great little series, so if you are looking for an iOS GTD system, you should

00:04:22 ◼   ► definitely check out those three episodes.

00:04:24 ◼   ► Really informative and helpful if you're trying to pick, or if you're like me and you bounce

00:04:29 ◼   ► around.

00:04:30 ◼   ► But still using To Do, still really happy with it, and just wanted to follow up on that.

00:04:35 ◼   ► I am surprised.

00:04:36 ◼   ► I kind of at the time I think was saying that I thought that you were gonna switch away, but you're still there

00:04:41 ◼   ► Yeah, I was ready with a with a remember to milk joke, but no

00:04:45 ◼   ► They do have a big redesign that I played with but it's just I just need a little bit more

00:04:51 ◼   ► Also having the cow on my home screen

00:04:54 ◼   ► Means I have to change it out anytime to do a screenshot to avoid being made fun of and that just felt like a lot

00:04:58 ◼   ► of work to be honest

00:05:00 ◼   ► Lastly I want to talk a little bit about something that came up on episode 105 last week

00:05:06 ◼   ► which is about privacy and online services,

00:05:09 ◼   ► talking about the security trade-offs

00:05:13 ◼   ► that come with some of these services.

00:05:15 ◼   ► So some services can turn over day to the government.

00:05:18 ◼   ► And when I say the government, I'm at the US government.

00:05:20 ◼   ► If compelled, others encrypt the data in a way

00:05:23 ◼   ► which makes that impossible.

00:05:26 ◼   ► For a while, Apple was somewhere in between

00:05:27 ◼   ► where some stuff they could turn over,

00:05:29 ◼   ► like some iCloud backup data,

00:05:30 ◼   ► but then things like iMessage were encrypted end to end.

00:05:33 ◼   ► and I think Apple is moving more towards that model.

00:05:38 ◼   ► And we got a bunch of feedback, we got a bunch of email,

00:05:40 ◼   ► and people on Twitter were talking about a comment

00:05:43 ◼   ► that we made, and I wanted to clarify it a little bit.

00:05:46 ◼   ► I know this is gonna lead to more feedback, and that's fine.

00:05:50 ◼   ► But the idea that we quote, "Have nothing to hide,"

00:05:54 ◼   ► and I can't do anything about it, so why worry about it?

00:05:58 ◼   ► In saying that, none of us, I don't think,

00:06:03 ◼   ► are okay that the US government can go into our iCloud backups, right?

00:06:07 ◼   ► None of us think that's cool, none of us are really excited about that, but it is a trade-off

00:06:13 ◼   ► that we accept because we want to use a service like iCloud backup.

00:06:18 ◼   ► A bunch of people threw around this Edward Snowden quote saying, "Arguing that you have

00:06:23 ◼   ► nothing to hide or that you don't care about the right to privacy is like saying you don't

00:06:27 ◼   ► care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say."

00:06:30 ◼   ► We understand that and I think all we were saying,

00:06:32 ◼   ► we weren't speaking to that reality

00:06:35 ◼   ► or speaking to that political environment,

00:06:37 ◼   ► we were just talking about we understand

00:06:40 ◼   ► that it's a reality and that we accept certain trade-offs

00:06:44 ◼   ► for the utility that certain services offer.

00:06:47 ◼   ► It wasn't a judgment call in the state of the world

00:06:50 ◼   ► or one particular service or another

00:06:51 ◼   ► or the service that you're really in love with

00:06:53 ◼   ► that we don't use.

00:06:54 ◼   ► All of that aside, we were just saying,

00:06:57 ◼   ► with anything you use online, there are trade-offs

00:06:59 ◼   ► that you should be aware of them.

00:07:01 ◼   ► And I would add, we had that Dropbox link

00:07:05 ◼   ► in the show notes last week.

00:07:07 ◼   ► All these companies have information on their website

00:07:09 ◼   ► about that saying who has access to what sort of things.

00:07:12 ◼   ► And anytime the US government can have access to something,

00:07:16 ◼   ► that means that employees of that company

00:07:18 ◼   ► have to facilitate that.

00:07:19 ◼   ► So yes, it means that Dropbox employees could,

00:07:22 ◼   ► if compelled by the US government,

00:07:25 ◼   ► go into my Dropbox account and look at my documents.

00:07:28 ◼   ► And yes, it does mean that if some crazy rogue Dropbox employee with that very specific power

00:07:34 ◼   ► wanted to abuse it, that they could.

00:07:37 ◼   ► But I trust Dropbox is having policies in place to avoid that sort of thing.

00:07:42 ◼   ► So I just wanted to clarify that.

00:07:45 ◼   ► I felt a little misunderstood and a little frustrated after last week's episode.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So anyways, we can move on for privacy.

00:07:52 ◼   ► But yeah, I just wanted to get that out there.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Apple have announced an event for next week.

00:07:59 ◼   ► It is the event that we expected, the September event.

00:08:02 ◼   ► There kind of isn't much to say.

00:08:04 ◼   ► We'll be covering the event next week,

00:08:07 ◼   ► probably on Thursday, so the day after,

00:08:08 ◼   ► once all the little tidbits have come out

00:08:11 ◼   ► of what is announced,

00:08:12 ◼   ► I guess we're definitely expecting the phone,

00:08:14 ◼   ► most likely expecting the watch

00:08:17 ◼   ► and maybe expecting some Mac stuff.

00:08:20 ◼   ► But there was something I wanted to point out

00:08:21 ◼   ► which really made me giggles.

00:08:23 ◼   ► Federico was being stupid with the criminology stuff and drew a box around two of the little

00:08:30 ◼   ► lights that are shown in the in the like the blurred kind of bouquet or have you call it

00:08:36 ◼   ► blurring of the image. He drew a little box around them and said it was a dual camera

00:08:40 ◼   ► confirmed because these two little white dots next to each other. And then the Daily Mail

00:08:45 ◼   ► printed this in one of their columns saying that Apple watchers say this is part of the

00:08:51 ◼   ► invite that reveals what appears to be the much rumoured double camera lens. So the Daily

00:08:56 ◼   ► Mail is taking Federico's dumb jokes and printing them as fact.

00:08:59 ◼   ► Man, they didn't even give me credit. Yeah.

00:09:02 ◼   ► How did you find it?

00:09:06 ◼   ► Well, how did I find it? Some… a reader, I think, sent me a link to the Daily Mail

00:09:12 ◼   ► saying they got your joke, but they didn't credit you. I mean, it was really stupid.

00:09:19 ◼   ► I literally looked at the invite and I drew a little box with the…

00:09:24 ◼   ► I mean it is kind of perfect because they're the same color and they're perfectly aligned,

00:09:27 ◼   ► right? Yeah, and actually I got a few people messaging

00:09:31 ◼   ► me privately because I assumed that you don't want to go on the record and saying, "Actually

00:09:35 ◼   ► I think it makes sense. I think it is a hint to the dual camera." And maybe it is, maybe

00:09:40 ◼   ► it's not. I was just being silly. I look at it and I'm like, "I know it's

00:09:44 ◼   ► stupid. It is right! They're the only two that are like perfectly aligned. They're

00:09:53 ◼   ► the same kind of... I don't know. It is dumb. It's criminology stuff. And it was

00:09:57 ◼   ► funny that you made a joke about that, which ended up being a thing.

00:10:01 ◼   ► I thought the joke was obvious in its nature of being a joke because I used the hashtag

00:10:05 ◼   ► ANALYST at the end. No man, that means you're serious.

00:10:10 ◼   ► No, can you name anyone who's serious about being an analyst who tags his own tweets with

00:10:15 ◼   ► analysts?

00:10:16 ◼   ► I bet there are many.

00:10:17 ◼   ► All of them.

00:10:18 ◼   ► Seriously?

00:10:19 ◼   ► Every single one of them, yeah.

00:10:20 ◼   ► No, no, come on.

00:10:21 ◼   ► That's messed up.

00:10:22 ◼   ► It's the type of people that put hashtag leadership in their Twitter bio.

00:10:25 ◼   ► Oh, come on.

00:10:26 ◼   ► What I like to think about in these stories are the graphic designers who do these sort

00:10:31 ◼   ► of invites, and that if these things go out and they just watch Twitter to see what people

00:10:37 ◼   ► read into them because I mean the older I get the more I find this whole scene

00:10:40 ◼   ► just really tiring but it's like I just imagine these guys designers maybe they

00:10:46 ◼   ► have like some sort of like bedding pool or maybe they have like a draft where

00:10:50 ◼   ► it's like these are all the things people will read into this and someone

00:10:53 ◼   ► someone like Frederick Hill comes in and and blows it all out of the water and I

00:10:57 ◼   ► think those designers go home and drink the day after their invite gets sent out

00:11:00 ◼   ► to the world. Oh my gosh the best thing in the world has just happened. I went to

00:11:05 ◼   ► twitter.com and I searched the word analyst. The top tweet for analyst is Federico. And

00:11:18 ◼   ► I even opened it in an incognito window just to check that it's not applying my timeline

00:11:23 ◼   ► bias. The top tweet right now for the word analyst is Federico. That's really good. That

00:11:30 ◼   ► That is amazing. Oh, teacher, you are an analyst now. Congratulations.

00:11:36 ◼   ► I guess I made it. You've made it. You've done it.

00:11:39 ◼   ► My new line of work has been an analyst of event invitations.

00:11:43 ◼   ► Pack it up. Yeah.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Yeah. I mean, screw McStories and everything else. I'm going to be an analyst now.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Analyst stories.

00:11:51 ◼   ► Done with the review.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah. Well, well done. I'm patting myself on the back with this.

00:11:56 ◼   ► Good job.

00:11:57 ◼   ► Yeah. Thank you.

00:11:58 ◼   ► We're very proud of you.

00:11:59 ◼   ► This week's episode is brought to you by FreshBooks, the company on a mission to save time and

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00:14:06 ◼   ► All right, so Apple have acquired a health data company called Glimpse and it's Glimpse

00:14:15 ◼   ► with two I's because web 3.0 I guess. And they were a company that could help individuals

00:14:22 ◼   ► get access to their medical records. So this is I think it's US focused but so this is basically a

00:14:28 ◼   ► way to bring all of your stuff together. I think there are digital forms for medical records in the

00:14:34 ◼   ► US from what I can understand but they're in a bunch of different formats and it's really hard

00:14:40 ◼   ► to kind of bring them all together in a way that you can view them but that is their idea. So you

00:14:44 ◼   ► bring all the medical information together it lets you look at it you can build on it you can

00:14:49 ◼   ► personalize and customize it and share it with people and use that data in interesting

00:14:54 ◼   ► ways to kind of build a better picture about your health. So Apple have acquired this company,

00:14:59 ◼   ► it's obvious why they've acquired this company, and I wonder just is this a good thing? Steven,

00:15:04 ◼   ► is this the type of stuff that you want to have access to and do you want Apple to be

00:15:09 ◼   ► the company that has the access?

00:15:13 ◼   ► I do want access to this sort of thing. So I'm by no means an expert in this field, but

00:15:18 ◼   ► But my understanding a little bit is that the medical health record system is really

00:15:23 ◼   ► fragmented in the US.

00:15:24 ◼   ► And basically you have some standards, but all these hospitals and doctors' offices either

00:15:30 ◼   ► go like purchase or sometimes build internally their own system to access that data.

00:15:35 ◼   ► And so you have stuff kind of all over the place.

00:15:39 ◼   ► And just because it's at one hospital and maybe you visited another doctor's office

00:15:43 ◼   ► that is not part of the same system, they don't necessarily know about each other.

00:15:47 ◼   ► It would be nice to have one central repository for all of that.

00:15:52 ◼   ► And so I could go in to a doctor's office or, you know, God forbid, take him to the

00:15:56 ◼   ► hospital for something.

00:15:58 ◼   ► And you know, I hand my iPhone or something to the nurse or the doctor and, you know,

00:16:05 ◼   ► they have, you know, some way to access everything that I have about me from one central place.

00:16:11 ◼   ► So they're not reliant on, you know, finding out who my physician is and going to their

00:16:16 ◼   ► office and getting their records and hoping that they're open. All that would be really

00:16:19 ◼   ► nice if we were all central. I think it would be great.

00:16:23 ◼   ► And then I guess the idea is you could take these records that come from medical assessments

00:16:28 ◼   ► and use them to help build a better picture of your health so you're able to do different

00:16:32 ◼   ► things, right? Right, you could be proactive about stuff.

00:16:35 ◼   ► Exactly. You could build that data into your workouts. You could build that data into your

00:16:39 ◼   ► diet. It is an interesting idea. And I have to say, if my data was going to be held by

00:16:44 ◼   ► a company, I would want that company to be Apple. Like my medical records, if I was going

00:16:49 ◼   ► to give somebody access to that, they're the company that I would want to have it.

00:16:54 ◼   ► Yeah, it's, I agree, you know, they've done a good job with the health app and there's

00:17:00 ◼   ► also some frustrations around it, like, you know, if you got to do a restore on your phone,

00:17:06 ◼   ► do you lose your activity rings, I mean, there's all that stuff to worry about that they just

00:17:08 ◼   ► need to work through. But I think that they're proving that they can be

00:17:13 ◼   ► trusted with this sort of data and you know they would need to work through

00:17:18 ◼   ► some of that. I would think at some point something like this would need to have a

00:17:22 ◼   ► server-side component. I don't know if it could be all on device. It's almost too

00:17:27 ◼   ► important just to be on device. Like if my phone gets it you know gets destroyed

00:17:31 ◼   ► in an accident and I'm in that accident where I'm in a car crash my

00:17:35 ◼   ► phone gets destroyed and my wife needs something you know out of that record it

00:17:41 ◼   ► was only on my phone she kind of stuck does she need to like restore her phone

00:17:44 ◼   ► to my iCloud backup to get it like there's lots of edge cases there that

00:17:48 ◼   ► are worth talking about and thinking through but I think overall this is a

00:17:53 ◼   ► promising idea and I think it's one that you know in these Tim Cook interviews

00:17:57 ◼   ► and stuff like this fits in with what they're doing right that you could see

00:18:01 ◼   ► Apple moving towards a system that would support this sort of stuff where you

00:18:06 ◼   ► could import your medical records from your doctor's office and have it all

00:18:09 ◼   ► available to you and I really like the proactive thought like you said you know

00:18:14 ◼   ► if something in that medical record says oh you know my cholesterol is a little

00:18:17 ◼   ► high and then maybe that gets that becomes a factor in like the goals the

00:18:22 ◼   ► watch sets for me like all sorts of interesting things have come out of it

00:18:26 ◼   ► and I think it would be it'd be really nice because I mean the the truth is

00:18:31 ◼   ► that a lot of people don't have a full picture of their health a lot of people

00:18:35 ◼   ► I forget the percentage I used to know it but it's it's crazy high of percentage

00:18:40 ◼   ► of like prescriptions that aren't followed through on properly so like if

00:18:44 ◼   ► you're supposed to take medication over seven days people stop at three days

00:18:47 ◼   ► because they're trying to feel better even that sort of thing right that if

00:18:52 ◼   ► your watch knew about your prescriptions and it could remind you or your

00:18:55 ◼   ► phone could give you notification of like "hey you need to take your medication at

00:18:59 ◼   ► this time" all that is like really enriching and so I'm in favor of this

00:19:05 ◼   ► sort of modernization of medical records. What do you think Federico? I mean it's

00:19:11 ◼   ► great if Apple wants to do it you know it makes total sense to have a company

00:19:15 ◼   ► that you know especially when it comes to this health stuff they have such huge

00:19:18 ◼   ► respect for user privacy and security I think it makes total sense to now I'm

00:19:24 ◼   ► I'm speaking from my experience in Italy, but everything is so fragmented.

00:19:31 ◼   ► When you go to one hospital and you got to share data with another hospital, and then

00:19:35 ◼   ► when you switch doctors, there's a bunch of paperwork.

00:19:38 ◼   ► And it would be great if there was a system, like a unified system that's always with you

00:19:43 ◼   ► that you can share directly with your physician and with different institutions.

00:19:49 ◼   ► It's a tall order for Apple to do this because it's a mess.

00:19:52 ◼   ► bureaucratic point of view it's a mess and I cannot even imagine when you not

00:19:56 ◼   ► even when you do it for a single country but when you do it for multiple

00:20:00 ◼   ► countries in different continents with different regulations it's you

00:20:05 ◼   ► know it's gonna take years but if this this is the kind of route that Apple

00:20:08 ◼   ► wants to go down I think it makes total sense to have that kind of integration

00:20:12 ◼   ► with the Apple Watch with the iPhone and maybe even with iCloud we don't know but

00:20:17 ◼   ► I think there's a you know when you bring together all of these different

00:20:21 ◼   ► The Apple Watch being an accessory that's always on you,

00:20:25 ◼   ► that can monitor your heart and maybe in the future even more data because of more sensors,

00:20:29 ◼   ► that can push you to exercise. And then you collect that data on the iPhone.

00:20:33 ◼   ► And then on the iPhone you also have medical data and you have things like medical ID.

00:20:37 ◼   ► For example, in case of an emergency and you can share this data with your doctor

00:20:42 ◼   ► and you can have reports, you can have statistics over time and you never lose that data.

00:20:47 ◼   ► I think that's powerful and that's, you know, we talk about technology as, you know, oh

00:20:52 ◼   ► my God, this is a beautiful markdown text editor.

00:20:55 ◼   ► So we talk about productivity stuff, but this is the stuff that really has an impact on

00:21:00 ◼   ► people.

00:21:01 ◼   ► You know, personal health, personal well-being.

00:21:03 ◼   ► I think if Apple wants to do this, it's got my total support and I think it's awesome.

00:21:07 ◼   ► Also difficult, but, you know, I think if one company can do it, that's Apple.

00:21:13 ◼   ► You know this would be one of those things that they announce and then me and you are

00:21:16 ◼   ► just like super sad for like two years because we don't get it you know. US only.

00:21:21 ◼   ► Yeah. The um you know with our son his long-term care at St. Jude you know

00:21:27 ◼   ► that's all at one hospital sometimes the second hospital but they talk really

00:21:30 ◼   ► well but even there where his whole history of his cancer treatment isn't

00:21:34 ◼   ► under one roof my wife and I still keep a detailed document shared document

00:21:38 ◼   ► between us with all of his history and his medication because even within the

00:21:42 ◼   ► one institution, sometimes that stuff comes up and it's like you have it all,

00:21:46 ◼   ► like why are you asking me for history? You know literally all of it.

00:21:50 ◼   ► It always horrifies me if I go for a hospital checkup or something and see

00:21:53 ◼   ► like stacks of paperwork and folders and it's like why? Why is it like that?

00:21:58 ◼   ► Yeah and so I mean even there you know we have a shared document that we

00:22:03 ◼   ► update and keep his medication in and all that stuff so having all

00:22:08 ◼   ► that in a way that doesn't involve a Google Doc would be nice.

00:22:14 ◼   ► So as of the time that we record today, which is on the 30th of August 2016, just before

00:22:20 ◼   ► we began the episode, the European Commission, who have been investigating what they say

00:22:26 ◼   ► to be alleged tax issues with Apple and Ireland, has made a ruling. Their ruling is that Apple

00:22:37 ◼   ► owes 13 billion euros to the Irish government, and therefore the European Union in a way,

00:22:46 ◼   ► for what they call illegal tax breaks that the Irish government gave to Apple.

00:22:54 ◼   ► This is extremely complicated, and a lot of this stuff is way over my paygrade of understanding,

00:22:59 ◼   ► But I'm going to try and do my best to explain what I can see is happening here.

00:23:06 ◼   ► So Ireland is known for maybe in like about 20-30 years ago and since then has been setting

00:23:16 ◼   ► up their corporate tax legislation in such a way that it is very enticing for companies

00:23:25 ◼   ► to set up offices there.

00:23:27 ◼   ► So Apple did this, like many companies have done this over time, set up offices in Ireland,

00:23:32 ◼   ► it helped boost the Irish economy and really has kind of pulled them out of some really

00:23:36 ◼   ► sticky situations.

00:23:37 ◼   ► If a lot of these companies weren't in Ireland, Ireland, like there's a lot of tech companies

00:23:41 ◼   ► in Ireland, there's a lot of companies in Ireland, Dropbox have their offices in Ireland

00:23:44 ◼   ► for the same kind of reason I believe.

00:23:48 ◼   ► There's a lot of great talent there and it's bolstered by the fact that it's really good

00:23:51 ◼   ► for companies from a financial perspective to run there and it is really helping the

00:23:56 ◼   ► Irish economy. Now the European Commission is saying and is claiming that the Irish government

00:24:03 ◼   ► has given Apple like extra breaks which the Irish government and Apple are saying didn't

00:24:12 ◼   ► happen and the Irish government is saying they don't want this money. Like they don't

00:24:18 ◼   ► want Apple to pay them this 13 billion but the European Commission is insisting that

00:24:23 ◼   ► they should because the tax wasn't set up correctly, they won't be in charge correctly

00:24:28 ◼   ► and this is back taxes and they want interest on that as well to be paid.

00:24:32 ◼   ► There is an open letter on apple.com in all of the European websites today. So if you're

00:24:40 ◼   ► in Europe you can see this is from Tim Cook and he's explaining kind of the fact that

00:24:45 ◼   ► Apple have put a lot of time and money into Ireland and they've put a lot of people there

00:24:49 ◼   ► and because of their Irish base, they employ 1.5 million people across all of Europe.

00:24:54 ◼   ► And they are saying that the European Commission is wrong and that this is kind of crazy stuff

00:25:00 ◼   ► and it's going to have wide reaching effects. And Tim Cook has mentioned again how like,

00:25:05 ◼   ► they're the biggest taxpayer in the US, they're the biggest taxpayer in Europe,

00:25:08 ◼   ► they're the biggest taxpayer in the world. They keep kind of going on that and he throws in again

00:25:13 ◼   ► about the idea of there being more tax reform and that there needs to be tax reform so money can

00:25:17 ◼   ► move more freely around different companies. So this is a horrible mess. And the thing

00:25:23 ◼   ► that I find just the most interesting is like, Europe is getting involved in this and is

00:25:29 ◼   ► passing a law down to Ireland to say this company owes you money, but the Irish government

00:25:36 ◼   ► and Apple are both going to appeal the decision. It's very weird. Again, like not to get too

00:25:42 ◼   ► too political, but this is the type of stuff that made people want to leave the European

00:25:46 ◼   ► Union. It's these types of rules. It's like the European Commission, because Ireland is

00:25:51 ◼   ► part of the EU, is telling Ireland how to run their country. And this is kind of, in

00:25:57 ◼   ► a way, I guess the kind of the way it works, because they're all one big thing, but it's

00:26:02 ◼   ► just really sticky. And I know that there are a bunch of holes in the stuff that I'm

00:26:06 ◼   ► talking about, because I don't understand tax law completely. But that's kind of the

00:26:10 ◼   ► the gist of it as I understand it,

00:26:11 ◼   ► that there were tax breaks for everyone,

00:26:14 ◼   ► they're I guess being changed,

00:26:16 ◼   ► and the European Commission is saying

00:26:18 ◼   ► that Apple got extra special ones,

00:26:19 ◼   ► and everybody's saying that.

00:26:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, what I find really interesting in Cook's letter

00:26:25 ◼   ► is that he really leans into the fact

00:26:27 ◼   ► that this is a very old setup.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I mean, he opens the letter 36 years ago,

00:26:32 ◼   ► and there's a picture of like 1980 bearded Steve Jobs

00:26:36 ◼   ► looking at a workbench of people working.

00:26:38 ◼   ► - And it's in black and white.

00:26:39 ◼   ► - Yeah, they had color photos then,

00:26:41 ◼   ► but you ran it through your Instagram filter

00:26:43 ◼   ► to make it look old.

00:26:44 ◼   ► He is trying to build the case that, you know,

00:26:49 ◼   ► this is, if there was something fishy going on here,

00:26:54 ◼   ► like, this has been said for so long

00:26:57 ◼   ► that that would have come to light, right?

00:26:59 ◼   ► And he is reiterating that we, Apple,

00:27:03 ◼   ► has done everything that it's supposed to do,

00:27:06 ◼   ► and that this is some sort of like,

00:27:10 ◼   ► you know, reaching back into history and saying,

00:27:11 ◼   ► "Oh no, you should have done it differently,

00:27:13 ◼   ► "and we're going to hold you to a standard

00:27:15 ◼   ► "that wasn't set way back then."

00:27:18 ◼   ► And you know, that's a little weird,

00:27:21 ◼   ► and it's, you know, no doubt it's a lot of money,

00:27:25 ◼   ► no doubt Apple could, you know, if it comes to it,

00:27:27 ◼   ► Apple's got the money, but I think for Apple,

00:27:29 ◼   ► it's more about the statement that it makes,

00:27:31 ◼   ► that's the principle.

00:27:32 ◼   ► Yeah, we were in an agreement, and it's not like,

00:27:35 ◼   ► It would be different if the government of Ireland and Apple disagreed on it, right?

00:27:41 ◼   ► If Ireland was suddenly saying, "No, you're right. The European, these new laws, the statement

00:27:47 ◼   ► coming down is true, Apple. You do owe us money." But they're not saying that they're

00:27:51 ◼   ► in agreement. And that's really what makes it so strange.

00:27:54 ◼   ► Now, I don't understand a lot about taxes, but I also kind of understand the position

00:28:01 ◼   ► that this can be wrong in the sense that let's assume that I'm friends with the Italian

00:28:05 ◼   ► prime minister and like we're personally friends and we're talking over dinner and and he goes like

00:28:11 ◼   ► look you want to bring in more maxoris employees in italy i'm gonna give you a discount on taxes

00:28:15 ◼   ► and we agree on that but it's not really permitted by law and so even if we have an agreement um

00:28:23 ◼   ► because we're friends because i'm bringing jobs i cannot really get a discount on taxes because it's

00:28:28 ◼   ► you know everyone pays the same taxes so i don't know now well this is what the european commission

00:28:34 ◼   ► is saying has happened, right? Like they are saying that this is what has occurred.

00:28:39 ◼   ► Right, there was an illegal state aid to Apple. So I kinda, if that's true, it kinda makes sense,

00:28:48 ◼   ► because I get it that you had an agreement, but that agreement is not permitted by law.

00:28:53 ◼   ► If that is in fact true. If that is the truth, yes.

00:28:56 ◼   ► Because both Apple and the Irish government are saying that isn't true.

00:28:59 ◼   ► Which is, I look at these things and I'm like, man.

00:29:03 ◼   ► I mean you're saying it and if you're being truthful here great but man if there's like

00:29:08 ◼   ► just one little thing you're int-ru-ible. I don't you know I look at these things and I'm like I

00:29:15 ◼   ► tell you my my feeling about this is right this has clearly uncovered the fact that the system

00:29:20 ◼   ► is broken right there is something wrong with the system maybe it's not to the tune of 13 billion

00:29:26 ◼   ► dollars or euros I should say but there is something obviously that people aren't happy

00:29:32 ◼   ► happy with tax, the European Commission unhappy with tax. I feel like what this should do,

00:29:38 ◼   ► these types of things should spark change. Going backwards and changing stuff isn't right.

00:29:43 ◼   ► If the Irish government was saying Apple owed them this money and the European Commission

00:29:49 ◼   ► was saying Apple owed them this money, I think I would feel differently about this and say,

00:29:54 ◼   ► "Apple, maybe you should pay this money if everyone's saying you owe this." But the fact

00:29:58 ◼   ► that the Irish government is saying that it's not owed and it's 13 billion euros.

00:30:02 ◼   ► That would really help Ireland.

00:30:05 ◼   ► That's where I'm kind of like, maybe.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Yeah, but I mean, there could be so many reasons

00:30:11 ◼   ► why the Irish government doesn't want money.

00:30:13 ◼   ► Now, let's assume the worst case scenario and that the, you know,

00:30:16 ◼   ► the Irish government is corrupted and they're taking bribes from Apple

00:30:19 ◼   ► not to get the money.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Yeah. And they're saying, no, no, no, we don't want the money.

00:30:23 ◼   ► It's cool. It's cool.

00:30:23 ◼   ► But then another government in 10 years says, look, we should have got the money.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Yeah, no, I'm trying to be like paint the perfect picture right with this.

00:30:31 ◼   ► You kind of just be like, if this is the case, then maybe we should change tax law going forward,

00:30:37 ◼   ► right? Like this is clearly highlighted an issue. But you're right. It could be someone's getting

00:30:42 ◼   ► bribed or the Irish government really don't want Apple to leave because of how much money they do

00:30:47 ◼   ► make from them. Right. Right. And I feel like that's why the Irish government is going to bat

00:30:53 ◼   ► for Apple anyway, not that I'm saying it's illicit, but I feel like that's why they're

00:30:57 ◼   ► going to bat for them because they want that relationship to remain.

00:31:02 ◼   ► And like Cook says in his article, A, it's a lot of jobs, but B, if this is upheld, then

00:31:10 ◼   ► it opens the door for lots of other companies in Ireland and across Europe to be at risk

00:31:18 ◼   ► of the same thing, right?

00:31:19 ◼   ► So if Apple pays this or if it moves forward, then they can say the same thing to Facebook

00:31:24 ◼   ► or Dropbox or Microsoft or any of these other companies that are in Ireland and across Europe

00:31:28 ◼   ► saying, "Hey, we know when you moved here, this wasn't the law, but we're going to retroactively

00:31:32 ◼   ► tax you for things in the past."

00:31:35 ◼   ► That's tricky.

00:31:36 ◼   ► That's a slippery slope and it's-

00:31:38 ◼   ► Because they probably never would have moved there, right?

00:31:40 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:31:41 ◼   ► And when it's time to expand, that's not where they're going to expand.

00:31:44 ◼   ► And if it's time to move people around, you know where they're going to pull out of.

00:31:48 ◼   ► Yes, it's a lot of money into their coffers, but the risk on the side of the European Commission

00:31:55 ◼   ► is startlingly high and something that could have drastic effects.

00:32:01 ◼   ► If Apple pulls out, someone in the chat room said 6,000 jobs in Cork alone.

00:32:06 ◼   ► That's a bunch of people out of work.

00:32:09 ◼   ► You know, they're those those employees are caught in between

00:32:12 ◼   ► The the company and the country and the Commission and that's that's terrible. I

00:32:18 ◼   ► Hope that like whatever this is

00:32:21 ◼   ► However, this results like it just works out right like if Apple do owe this money then they should pay it

00:32:26 ◼   ► but if they don't owe it like I hope that it just gets fixed because this is clearly like

00:32:30 ◼   ► Apple has a lot of

00:32:33 ◼   ► spotlight on it right now on them right now about tax stuff.

00:32:37 ◼   ► This is clearly a big thing for Tim

00:32:39 ◼   ► and his administration now.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Everyone is just caring about how much tax money they have.

00:32:45 ◼   ► And they've just got a big target on their back

00:32:46 ◼   ► because they have all of the profit, right?

00:32:49 ◼   ► It's just there.

00:32:50 ◼   ► So all of these governments seem like

00:32:52 ◼   ► that they're going after them,

00:32:53 ◼   ► or these institutions are going after them

00:32:55 ◼   ► to pay taxes and stuff like that now, right?

00:32:56 ◼   ► Like America wants different tax from them

00:32:59 ◼   ► and there's things there,

00:33:00 ◼   ► and now Europe wants different tax from them.

00:33:02 ◼   ► I just hope that it can get fixed and it looks like it will

00:33:05 ◼   ► because I mean eventually,

00:33:07 ◼   ► I think a lot of these institutions,

00:33:09 ◼   ► they kind of have to give up to the fact

00:33:11 ◼   ► of how much money Apple can give them if it's done right.

00:33:13 ◼   ► And I think that this stuff just is like the scare tactic

00:33:17 ◼   ► to bully them into actually doing something.

00:33:20 ◼   ► At least that's my hope

00:33:20 ◼   ► because otherwise this is just gonna get real messy.

00:33:23 ◼   ► - It wouldn't happen if Federico

00:33:25 ◼   ► had been elected vice president

00:33:26 ◼   ► of special business over all of Europe.

00:33:28 ◼   ► - That is true though.

00:33:29 ◼   ► - I just told you.

00:33:30 ◼   ► Told you.

00:33:31 ◼   ► No, but I bet Federico would have those lunches with Tim like he was going to have with the

00:33:35 ◼   ► French Prime Minister and give him...

00:33:37 ◼   ► What's the Italian one? Sorry.

00:33:38 ◼   ► Sorry, the Italian Prime Minister and give him something. You know, I know that you would

00:33:42 ◼   ► do that. That's what the special is in the business.

00:33:45 ◼   ► There you go.

00:33:46 ◼   ► I'm not sure about that.

00:33:48 ◼   ► Talking about dodgy relationships, let's just talk about Spotify and Apple real quick. There

00:33:53 ◼   ► was a Bloomberg article that came out earlier this week about how Spotify has been retaliating

00:34:00 ◼   ► against musicians who use Apple Music exclusives by making their songs harder to find and they

00:34:06 ◼   ► don't feature them and they won't feature them in any of their featured playlists now.

00:34:10 ◼   ► So like when Spotify creates those big playlists they're not going to put their songs in there.

00:34:14 ◼   ► So let me understand. Spotify's strategy to go against Apple Music is to make Spotify

00:34:18 ◼   ► worse by not having the songs people want to listen to? Um, okay.

00:34:24 ◼   ► Yes in theory like you can still find it like Spotify is saying they don't tamper with search results, but like

00:34:32 ◼   ► Anecdotal evidence is saying that these songs seem to be a bit buried like this is Spotify

00:34:38 ◼   ► Trying to throw their weight around right they want to be where the exclusives are I mean

00:34:43 ◼   ► And they still have the majority of the users so maybe you don't want to upset them

00:34:48 ◼   ► But I think you know Apple has all of the money right they can probably offer more money to these artists

00:34:53 ◼   ► as Spotify can for these timed exclusives.

00:34:56 ◼   ► - Yeah, I really don't feel like this is a good strategy

00:34:59 ◼   ► to use.

00:35:00 ◼   ► I mean, I do understand the personal feeling

00:35:04 ◼   ► of retaliation against Apple,

00:35:05 ◼   ► but from a practical point of view,

00:35:07 ◼   ► from a business perspective,

00:35:08 ◼   ► not featuring the songs people wanna have on your service,

00:35:11 ◼   ► prominently in playlists or in search,

00:35:14 ◼   ► it is stupid, honestly.

00:35:15 ◼   ► - It is making the product worse,

00:35:17 ◼   ► but this is what happens

00:35:19 ◼   ► in these company-to-company cold wars.

00:35:21 ◼   ► So the Spotify app, this came out like in May, right?

00:35:26 ◼   ► Remember the Spotify app got blocked by Apple

00:35:29 ◼   ► because they were trying to get people

00:35:30 ◼   ► to sign up for their website instead?

00:35:33 ◼   ► There has not been an update to the Spotify application

00:35:36 ◼   ► since the 23rd of May.

00:35:38 ◼   ► That update is still blocked.

00:35:40 ◼   ► - I'm on the Spotify test flight,

00:35:42 ◼   ► so I get to update with the beta build.

00:35:44 ◼   ► But yeah, on the app store, there hasn't been an update.

00:35:46 ◼   ► - Maybe still trying to get it through,

00:35:48 ◼   ► but Apple won't allow it, right?

00:35:50 ◼   ► are still blocking them, it hasn't been updated since May, like this is the fight that they're

00:35:55 ◼   ► in right now. And another thing, I think this is way worse than like blocking Frank Ocean

00:36:02 ◼   ► and Taylor Swift. If a lesser known artist uses the Beats 1 show to have their music

00:36:09 ◼   ► introduced by Zane Lowe, this is also something where these retaliatory practices will kick

00:36:17 ◼   ► So if like a new artist gets like that record of the week or the world exclusive, whatever they call that, I can't remember, world track, world music track, I don't know.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Always on?

00:36:29 ◼   ► Always on, world music track exclusive.

00:36:31 ◼   ► Beats one.

00:36:32 ◼   ► Beats one.

00:36:33 ◼   ► World wide.

00:36:34 ◼   ► I think that's what they call it.

00:36:35 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a full title, like a bunch of commas and all of these words.

00:36:38 ◼   ► It's a complete thought around music.

00:36:40 ◼   ► It's a complete hashtag also.

00:36:43 ◼   ► I can't wait to do it.

00:36:45 ◼   ► Ah, you got it! Ah, I was just setting that one up!

00:36:48 ◼   ► Anyway, so if a lesser known artist gets that thing that we just explained and they get played on Beats 1,

00:36:54 ◼   ► they will also be buried and not have their music featured.

00:36:58 ◼   ► So this is Spotify clearly losing on all grounds of Apple, right?

00:37:01 ◼   ► Like everything that they've tried to do is not working because they're not getting what they want.

00:37:06 ◼   ► So now they're trying to go from the bottom up.

00:37:09 ◼   ► They're now trying to attack the artists to try and attack Apple.

00:37:14 ◼   ► It's a messy war and unfortunately as always with these types of things the people that

00:37:18 ◼   ► lose out are the consumers and the people that pay for their music for Spotify.

00:37:23 ◼   ► I mean at least the stuff's not being held off right?

00:37:26 ◼   ► They're not saying it's not going to be in the library but they're just hiding it from

00:37:30 ◼   ► you.

00:37:32 ◼   ► This week's episode is also brought to you by Eero.

00:37:35 ◼   ► These days everything that we have in our homes require an internet connection and that

00:37:39 ◼   ► is an increasingly growing number of devices.

00:37:42 ◼   ► our phones and computers need wifi, but also our speakers, thermostats, light bulbs, front

00:37:47 ◼   ► door locks, security cameras, everything is needing them.

00:37:50 ◼   ► And we're always using heavy data services now, Netflix, Hulu, Spotify, you know, even

00:37:55 ◼   ► whether their music is there or not, for our home entertainment.

00:37:59 ◼   ► Wifi is the foundation of all of it.

00:38:01 ◼   ► But wifi is tricky, it's broken, it's messy.

00:38:04 ◼   ► If you went into a room in your house and plugged your iPhone into the wall and it wasn't

00:38:09 ◼   ► going to charge because the electricity connection wasn't good in that part of the house. You

00:38:13 ◼   ► will have somebody come out and fix that immediately because that's crazy, it wouldn't happen.

00:38:16 ◼   ► But this is something that so many people have to deal with every day with WiFi. There

00:38:21 ◼   ► are dead zones, we have to sit and look at buffering for a long time because to get the

00:38:25 ◼   ► best connection, the best possible connection today you need to have some kind of distributed

00:38:29 ◼   ► system, not just one router that just produces the WiFi signal for your whole house that

00:38:35 ◼   ► that sits in the bottom corner somewhere,

00:38:37 ◼   ► you need to have distributed systems

00:38:39 ◼   ► so you can get the connection all over your house

00:38:41 ◼   ► really easily, and this is super expensive to do,

00:38:43 ◼   ► but not anymore, because now you have Eero.

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00:39:21 ◼   ► Eero box is constantly kept up to date.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Now Stephen I know that you have an Eero.

00:39:26 ◼   ► What was kind of like some of the process like?

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00:39:30 ◼   ► It's super easy to set up which is nice.

00:39:32 ◼   ► A lot of these systems are using multiple access points.

00:39:36 ◼   ► It requires some sort of controller or, you know, like central unit to tell them what

00:39:40 ◼   ► to do.

00:39:42 ◼   ► And with the Eero, it's just an iPhone app.

00:39:44 ◼   ► So you set one up on your iPhone and then you go and you plug in a second one.

00:39:48 ◼   ► It does a good job of telling you kind of where they should be.

00:39:51 ◼   ► So our new house is sort of shaped like an L and it, you know, I put the first one up

00:39:57 ◼   ► and said, hey, you need to be within kind of this number of feet.

00:39:59 ◼   ► helpful if you have line of sight and it all just walks you through it in a very

00:40:02 ◼   ► friendly way on the iPhone app which is nice and it doesn't require an ethernet

00:40:07 ◼   ► drop at every place so my old house had an ethernet network that I put in the

00:40:11 ◼   ► new house does not have that I haven't done that yet and it doesn't really

00:40:14 ◼   ► matter because it uses this this wireless network to share information

00:40:18 ◼   ► between the two that you don't see as the user and it's just really like

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00:40:26 ◼   ► is so hard and so complicated and even Apple's own airport system to do more than one of

00:40:31 ◼   ► them gets a little crazy and with Eero that's what they're designed to do and you don't

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00:41:03 ◼   ► about how to get an Eero for yourself just go to Eero.com that's E-E-R-O.com and because

00:41:08 ◼   ► you listen to this show you'll get yourself free overnight shipping. Just select overnight

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00:41:16 ◼   ► Thank you so much to Eero for their support of this show and Relay your fan.

00:41:21 ◼   ► So Apple Watch 2 rumors, Stephen would you like to take this away?

00:41:26 ◼   ► I would like to take it away.

00:41:27 ◼   ► So kind of building on a couple of different stories, we had one a couple weeks ago saying

00:41:34 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch 2 would come out and the Apple Watch 1, the current Apple Watch,

00:41:39 ◼   ► would be upgraded somehow but stay on sale.

00:41:42 ◼   ► And then this report out just a couple days ago has some more detail about what the Apple

00:41:47 ◼   ► Watch 2 could bring to the table.

00:41:49 ◼   ► So bigger battery, GPS, barometer, bigger batteries in my list twice for some reason

00:41:55 ◼   ► I guess we're really excited about that.

00:41:56 ◼   ► Bigger battery, bigger, bigger, bigger, right?

00:41:58 ◼   ► The more you say it the bigger it gets.

00:42:00 ◼   ► And it's the first hardware leak we've had of the Apple Watch.

00:42:04 ◼   ► These battery components popped up online.

00:42:07 ◼   ► So there's some strategy in play here I think it's fun to talk about because this is the

00:42:12 ◼   ► first time we will have had an Apple Watch revision.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Really they've added new stuff, new bands and new cases but the first time we've had

00:42:19 ◼   ► maybe a new product in this line and it really seems like they're going to do

00:42:23 ◼   ► the the iPad thing so the you know is this like revised Apple watch one going

00:42:29 ◼   ► to drop below the current prices which as of our recording 38 millimeters $299

00:42:34 ◼   ► 42 millimeter is $349. Will Apple watch one revision special edition whatever

00:42:43 ◼   ► will that fall below that price point so Apple can get in the door cheaper and

00:42:47 ◼   ► and compete more directly with Fitbit in that price range.

00:42:50 ◼   ► Does the Apple Watch 2 come in more expensive

00:42:54 ◼   ► and the Apple Watch 1 is there

00:42:55 ◼   ► just to hold those price points?

00:42:56 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, does the Apple Watch 1

00:42:59 ◼   ► become the zombie iPad 2 that never dies

00:43:02 ◼   ► and people get sad that the A5 is still around?

00:43:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:43:06 ◼   ► It's just fun to debate that strategy.

00:43:07 ◼   ► So I was curious what you guys thought

00:43:09 ◼   ► about what we could see from a strategy perspective

00:43:14 ◼   ► with the Apple Watch 2.

00:43:15 ◼   ► - Seems like the Apple Watch 2

00:43:16 ◼   ► is gonna be the first type of product not to get thinner on a revision. So it sounds

00:43:22 ◼   ► like from the rumors we're gonna get the same design but just with more stuff inside. Which

00:43:27 ◼   ► I think makes sense, because I really don't need my watch to be thinner at this point,

00:43:31 ◼   ► I guess. I also think that having a cheaper watch makes sense for consumers. I don't know

00:43:40 ◼   ► if it's the best idea in terms of app ecosystem,

00:43:45 ◼   ► in terms of software performance over time,

00:43:47 ◼   ► because I mean, we're getting a bunch of nice improvements

00:43:49 ◼   ► with watchOS 3, but it still remains a pretty slow device.

00:43:53 ◼   ► You know, the S1, the built-in system on a chip,

00:43:57 ◼   ► it's not gonna stand the test of time in three to four years

00:44:01 ◼   ► and I really don't wanna see a repeat

00:44:02 ◼   ► of the iPad 2 situation.

00:44:04 ◼   ► So maybe it's just gonna be a stopgap solution,

00:44:08 ◼   ► you know, to have an Apple Watch first generation at a discounted price this year,

00:44:13 ◼   ► and next year, or maybe in two years, just gonna go away and we'll have an Apple Watch 2 at a discounted price.

00:44:20 ◼   ► So I think it makes sense for now for Apple, it makes sense for people like my mom,

00:44:24 ◼   ► you know, my mom got a used Apple Watch because she didn't want to pay the full price.

00:44:29 ◼   ► So I think it makes total sense to have a cheaper option.

00:44:32 ◼   ► I'm just afraid, you know, it's gonna be a problem for apps,

00:44:35 ◼   ► But then again, maybe people just don't use that many apps on the watch.

00:44:38 ◼   ► Maybe people just use Apple apps and those are gonna be fine with watchOS 3.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I think it makes sense.

00:44:44 ◼   ► I don't think we're gonna see this applied to the edition model at all.

00:44:50 ◼   ► Like, I don't even know if the edition is gonna be available in the Apple Watch 2.

00:44:54 ◼   ► I mean, they've already kind of dried up, right?

00:44:56 ◼   ► It's hard to get your eyes on one now.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Right.

00:44:58 ◼   ► I think it's gonna be a one-off thing that Apple did for the first generation model.

00:45:03 ◼   ► kind of be a collector's item. I'll get right on that adding it to the collection. Oh god

00:45:09 ◼   ► and that's how we said goodbye to Steven. So Federica you said that you don't want your

00:45:15 ◼   ► watch to be thinner and I understand that I mean I do but but I want other things more

00:45:24 ◼   ► so like I do want to be thinner it could be way thinner this thing is huge right like

00:45:29 ◼   ► It could be way thinner than this. I would be very happy if it was. However, I want faster

00:45:34 ◼   ► performance and therefore probably better battery. I want all of that instead. I want

00:45:40 ◼   ► my watch to be more useful and in the same form factor I'm fine with that. Like I want

00:45:45 ◼   ► to be less frustrated with my Apple Watch because when I'm less frustrated with it I

00:45:49 ◼   ► use it more and more and I want to keep using it more and more. There are things I want

00:45:52 ◼   ► to do on it that can't be done or I try to do and they just fail too many times. I want

00:45:58 ◼   ► all of that stuff to be fixed. And if it means that we keep the same form factor for another

00:46:03 ◼   ► iteration, I'm happy with that.

00:46:05 ◼   ► You know what I'm going to say to unpopular things that I want from the Apple Watch? I

00:46:10 ◼   ► want louder speakers.

00:46:12 ◼   ► So do I. It's not unpopular. I definitely want that. Because I take calls on mine and

00:46:16 ◼   ► it's ridiculous.

00:46:17 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. Hold on. But I also want a camera. And I'll tell you why. I don't want

00:46:21 ◼   ► a selfie camera. I want a camera I can point and, you know, capture things from my hand.

00:46:27 ◼   ► I want a camera on my hand all the time.

00:46:29 ◼   ► And I feel like--

00:46:30 ◼   ► - What are you creeping?

00:46:32 ◼   ► - No, no, not at all.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Actually for the opposite scenario.

00:46:35 ◼   ► Like you're, you know, in any kind of emergency situation,

00:46:39 ◼   ► you gotta take a picture without taking out your phone

00:46:41 ◼   ► or reaching for your phone,

00:46:42 ◼   ► or you wanna show something to someone in a hurry.

00:46:46 ◼   ► I think having a camera always on you, not with you,

00:46:49 ◼   ► but on you could be just as important as having,

00:46:52 ◼   ► you know, the SOS feature of watchOS 3, for example.

00:46:56 ◼   ► So I understand that but I want a camera they can't give me.

00:46:59 ◼   ► I want a camera that's good. If they're going to put one on here,

00:47:03 ◼   ► I want it to be able to take a decent picture,

00:47:05 ◼   ► which it's just not going to be able to do initially.

00:47:08 ◼   ► The camera's going to be horrific.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Sure. And maybe it's just going to be a face 10 camera, but you know.

00:47:13 ◼   ► That's, that's why I think that if they do ever put a camera on this thing,

00:47:17 ◼   ► like in its first iteration, it will be a selfie camera,

00:47:21 ◼   ► like a FaceTime calling camera because the camera technology will be not good.

00:47:26 ◼   ► to fit into that package. - Yeah, agreed.

00:47:28 ◼   ► Agreed.

00:47:29 ◼   ► The thinness is something that I only think about

00:47:32 ◼   ► if I'm wearing like a long sleeve dress shirt

00:47:34 ◼   ► and it's a little bit bulky, but I think that, you know,

00:47:38 ◼   ► if it comes to like thinness or band compatibility,

00:47:42 ◼   ► I think I want band compatibility for another year.

00:47:45 ◼   ► - I still think it can make it thinner

00:47:46 ◼   ► and still have band compatibility though.

00:47:48 ◼   ► - I mean, to a degree, I mean, looking at the side of it,

00:47:50 ◼   ► there's definitely, you know, they could taper

00:47:52 ◼   ► of the little Airstream trailer off the edges but I don't know the what's more

00:47:59 ◼   ► interesting to me is the the potential for things like the GPS and better

00:48:04 ◼   ► battery life you know I I don't if I go for a bike ride or a walk or something I

00:48:13 ◼   ► always take my phone as well so GPS on the watch won't solve the use case for

00:48:20 ◼   ► me that you know someone may need to get a hold of me or I may need to get a hold

00:48:24 ◼   ► of somebody. Especially bike riding like accidents happen people can get hurt and

00:48:28 ◼   ► it's important to have the ability to call somebody or call 911 or or at the

00:48:33 ◼   ► very least like have you know someone with find my friends could open it and

00:48:37 ◼   ► see where I am if I am you know late getting home or something like that and

00:48:42 ◼   ► so for me the watch GPS doesn't solve that but it would be nice for it to be

00:48:48 ◼   ► able to track if you don't care about any of that stuff you just want to go for a run

00:48:52 ◼   ► and you want you know Nike Fitness or MapMyRide or MapMyRun or whatever the current popular

00:48:59 ◼   ► one is.

00:49:00 ◼   ► RideMyMap.

00:49:01 ◼   ► RideMyMap, Strava.

00:49:02 ◼   ► 1, 2, 3, RunTracker.

00:49:03 ◼   ► 1, 2, 3, RunTracker is by far the best editor's choice in the app store.

00:49:09 ◼   ► Yeah, PimpMyRun also.

00:49:10 ◼   ► Yep, that's the Federico version.

00:49:13 ◼   ► Wow.

00:49:15 ◼   ► go out running Gucci shoes. You're going to need to call 911 at the end of that.

00:49:22 ◼   ► So having all of that sort of stuff on the watch is really compelling and so I'm looking

00:49:29 ◼   ► forward to it but if the only difference between the one and the two is GPS and maybe not speed,

00:49:35 ◼   ► you know, if the speed was the same, I think I'd probably skip it but I assume that the

00:49:40 ◼   ► two is going to be drastically faster with better battery life and as good as watchOS

00:49:45 ◼   ► is on existing hardware it would only be better on something that is is faster

00:49:50 ◼   ► in of itself. I'm really unsure about upgrading like they're like I've got the

00:49:55 ◼   ► stainless steel one I like it I'm very curious as to how they're gonna sell

00:50:01 ◼   ► upgrading to someone like me like the GPS isn't a deal breaker. A faster chip

00:50:06 ◼   ► is all I need to upgrade like telling me the watch is gonna be faster more

00:50:10 ◼   ► capable that's the kind of the barrier to buying for me that's

00:50:15 ◼   ► kind of the main thing that I want to see. Like we're saying

00:50:19 ◼   ► about better battery life we don't need that like because the

00:50:22 ◼   ► battery life is great but you need it if it gets more powerful

00:50:24 ◼   ► right so that those two things need to go together I think.

00:50:27 ◼   ► And more importantly you need more battery if you want to have

00:50:29 ◼   ► a watch that's always on right because you want to have a watch

00:50:33 ◼   ► face that's on all the time. Even in a low power kind of

00:50:36 ◼   ► fashion like Android Wear does.

00:50:38 ◼   ► I'm not even expecting that that's a thing that they're going to give me, but it's something I really, really want.

00:50:43 ◼   ► I don't think it's going to be this thing.

00:50:45 ◼   ► I mean, so much of the appeal of wearing a watch is the fact that people are able to look at your watch face, right?

00:50:50 ◼   ► Whether the design, the colors, and right now you're just wearing a screen that's turned off all the time.

00:50:56 ◼   ► So sure, people can look at the steel, at the chrome, people can look at the bands,

00:51:02 ◼   ► but looking at the watch face, it's a whole other story.

00:51:04 ◼   ► So if you want to have a watch face that's always on, you're going to need more battery.

00:51:07 ◼   ► and GPS seems pretty much a given at this point.

00:51:10 ◼   ► I also heard from a reader a few weeks ago, and I'm not sure if this is still the case,

00:51:15 ◼   ► but apparently at WWDC, Apple announced that even on the Watch 1,

00:51:22 ◼   ► thanks to iOS 10 and WatchOS 3, you were able to go for a run,

00:51:29 ◼   ► and even without GPS, the watch was able to track your run without having to carry the iPhone with you.

00:51:36 ◼   ► And the feature was working up until beta 3, beta 4.

00:51:40 ◼   ► And then according to this person, I haven't tried because I didn't have the time,

00:51:44 ◼   ► the feature was removed.

00:51:45 ◼   ► So my interpretation is GPS is coming to the Apple Watch 2,

00:51:49 ◼   ► but they don't want to have the Watch 1 to kind of have a workaround for that

00:51:53 ◼   ► to make the feature even more exclusive for the Watch 2.

00:51:56 ◼   ► I don't know if this person was correct.

00:51:58 ◼   ► I don't know if the feature came back.

00:52:00 ◼   ► But this person was really upset because he told me

00:52:02 ◼   ► this was one of the best features of Watch OS 3 and iOS 10,

00:52:05 ◼   ► And now it's gone because they assume Apple wants to make it exclusive to the Watch 2 with native GPS.

00:52:10 ◼   ► Well they will enjoy the Watch 2 a lot then.

00:52:13 ◼   ► I guess this person.

00:52:14 ◼   ► It was really... I mean it's a great feature, you know, if you're a runner I can imagine you go out with your Watch,

00:52:20 ◼   ► you sing some music, you don't have to carry your iPhone on an ARP band with you.

00:52:24 ◼   ► And I mean it does sound convenient, honestly.

00:52:27 ◼   ► I would be very upset if the bands don't work with the new Watch.

00:52:32 ◼   ► I don't think they're gonna do that, I think it'd be crazy but I'd be very upset.

00:52:36 ◼   ► No, bands are the new lightning connector. They gotta stay compatible for several years.

00:52:42 ◼   ► I agree with that and I think especially if you're gonna be introducing them regularly

00:52:46 ◼   ► with the intention for people to build up a collection, then people are still gonna buy them

00:52:52 ◼   ► anyway, you don't need to obsolete them. So I hope that's the case. My only real concern now,

00:52:58 ◼   ► and this is something that Jason mentioned on upgrade is the idea of like if they just keep the sport as

00:53:04 ◼   ► the watch one and

00:53:08 ◼   ► Then the watch two is the other models. Yeah, so the soul is the cheap one, but then

00:53:13 ◼   ► What if I can only buy stainless steel, which I don't like that would be that would be upsetting to me

00:53:20 ◼   ► What would you what do you mean? I don't follow

00:53:23 ◼   ► So let's say they kept the sport around that's a cheap one and didn't make a new sport model

00:53:28 ◼   ► and maybe they made it another stainless steel model which was the watch 2. No I

00:53:34 ◼   ► don't think I agree that the if the Apple watch one stays around it would

00:53:39 ◼   ► only be in the aluminum but I think that the aluminum is is I mean it's got to be

00:53:44 ◼   ► the most popular one by far so I don't see them leaving that behind I think

00:53:48 ◼   ► that Apple watch 2 would also be in aluminum and I mean when the iPad 2

00:53:53 ◼   ► stayed around it looked more or less like the iPad 3 and 4 right like those

00:53:58 ◼   ► that I don't think that's new territory for them to break into so I completely

00:54:02 ◼   ► hope that you're correct I don't think your concern is is something that you

00:54:06 ◼   ► should stay up a night ever okay thank you sleep sleep sleep well my friend I

00:54:12 ◼   ► can now now I can sleep easy somebody wrote in robust and said do you think

00:54:17 ◼   ► that Apple will sell Apple watch 2 without a band or bracelet for people

00:54:22 ◼   ► that already have bought bands. What do you think?

00:54:28 ◼   ► I don't know. Maybe you could sell it without a band for people who want to use it as a

00:54:31 ◼   ► necklace.

00:54:32 ◼   ► No, but like people that already have the bands, right? We have a bunch of bands.

00:54:37 ◼   ► I think it makes sense, but it seems un-Apple in the implementation, kind of. I mean, maybe

00:54:44 ◼   ► not, because it would be kind of like a Mac Mini. You just buy the "computer", quote-unquote.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I mean in a good way, not in terms of updates, but like the Mac Mini in the sense that you

00:54:55 ◼   ► just buy the CPU, the thing, and then you've got to connect all of the different accessories.

00:55:02 ◼   ► I don't think it's too absurd.

00:55:03 ◼   ► It'd just be weird to buy a watch without bands.

00:55:06 ◼   ► I mean, think about how weird it would look on the box.

00:55:11 ◼   ► Like just a screen, just a square?

00:55:13 ◼   ► I don't see them.

00:55:15 ◼   ► I see what the question is getting to, but I think they're going to sell it with bands

00:55:20 ◼   ► for everyone.

00:55:21 ◼   ► And honestly, I bought mine, my stainless steel with the black sport band, and I've

00:55:27 ◼   ► bought several since then.

00:55:28 ◼   ► Like the white sport band, which is my favorite, it's kind of grungy and gross, and I actually

00:55:32 ◼   ► have a little nick in it.

00:55:33 ◼   ► So if I had to buy it with a watch band again, I'd probably do it with the white one, so

00:55:36 ◼   ► I can refresh that one and retire the old one.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't think they're going to do this.

00:55:43 ◼   ► I just thought it was an interesting thought experiment at least.

00:55:47 ◼   ► So we're expecting the Apple Watch 2 to be announced next week, come out in October,

00:55:53 ◼   ► let's say, alongside WatchOS 3 maybe.

00:55:57 ◼   ► And then, so we're in 2016, we're gonna see a new Apple Watch in 2018?

00:56:02 ◼   ► That's the idea, every two years?

00:56:05 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:56:06 ◼   ► I think so.

00:56:07 ◼   ► I mean, what kind of schedule does the Apple Watch have?

00:56:09 ◼   ► Well, I think the initial schedule was skewed because they announced it kind of off kilter

00:56:15 ◼   ► And then they released it at a weird point and then they had to go around a little bit longer

00:56:19 ◼   ► It's like the iPad pros are gonna be like this, right?

00:56:21 ◼   ► They were like they were debuted in September and they won't get updated until like March

00:56:27 ◼   ► Right like so I think that it's gonna be that kind of thing

00:56:31 ◼   ► I think they might go yearly with it

00:56:33 ◼   ► Maybe at least initially whilst there's still a bunch of stuff that they can add on a relatively quick cycle

00:56:39 ◼   ► you know maybe.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Naughty?

00:56:43 ◼   ► Steven you have a dilemma is what our document says.

00:56:47 ◼   ► It is true. So my wife is on her second

00:56:51 ◼   ► Fitbit HR which they actually just announced the replacement for

00:56:55 ◼   ► yesterday. It's the Fitbit's got the heart rate sensor, got the little screen in it

00:56:59 ◼   ► and she has had

00:57:03 ◼   ► the first one failed, it would stop syncing and basically it would act

00:57:07 ◼   ► crazy it would lose time and add time and just like vibrate endlessly and so

00:57:12 ◼   ► connected to Fitbit they replaced it no questions asked and her second one is

00:57:16 ◼   ► starting to show the same symptoms of what I have dubbed Fitbit madness where

00:57:21 ◼   ► they just start to lose their minds a little bit and so she's frustrated with

00:57:26 ◼   ► it which is understandable and I suggested to her is like well you know

00:57:31 ◼   ► maybe we replace it with an Apple watch because she really likes that the

00:57:36 ◼   ► Fitbit HR shows you who's calling. So if her phone is in her bag or you know

00:57:40 ◼   ► somewhere else in the house she can see who's calling and she likes that

00:57:44 ◼   ► and she liked the idea of being able to see iMessages the same way. And so she

00:57:50 ◼   ► is pretty interested in the the 38 millimeter sport Apple Watch and now is

00:57:57 ◼   ► a really terrible time to buy probably unless the old Apple Watch stays around.

00:58:00 ◼   ► And you see these things going on sale. So Apple got the price a while

00:58:05 ◼   ► back earlier this week I think still Best Buy has them for like $60 less than

00:58:11 ◼   ► Apple's list price. Best Buy does this sometimes to bring people in the store

00:58:15 ◼   ► and sell you their fancy warranty but it's tempting there as well. She doesn't

00:58:20 ◼   ► really care about GPS we talked through that and she has the same concerns that

00:58:25 ◼   ► I do that you can't make a phone call still there's no way to like really know

00:58:29 ◼   ► I don't think unless they're doing something crazy that I can't foresee

00:58:34 ◼   ► see that this is gonna be part of finding my friends,

00:58:37 ◼   ► that that is still all tied to the iPhone

00:58:39 ◼   ► 'cause it has a data connection.

00:58:41 ◼   ► And so she has the same concerns I do,

00:58:42 ◼   ► that GPS isn't quite enough for her

00:58:44 ◼   ► to leave her phone behind on a run.

00:58:46 ◼   ► And so she's not particularly interested in GPS either.

00:58:52 ◼   ► And so I've been debating, you know,

00:58:54 ◼   ► do I wait and see, which is what I'm going to do,

00:58:58 ◼   ► it's not really a real debate,

00:58:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna wait and see what Apple does

00:59:00 ◼   ► and if the Watch One comes down in price

00:59:04 ◼   ► or they replace it.

00:59:05 ◼   ► If they replace it, then surely something else,

00:59:09 ◼   ► you know, somebody else like Best Buy

00:59:10 ◼   ► or somebody else will take even more off

00:59:12 ◼   ► and I'll just get a one on sale if that's what she wants.

00:59:15 ◼   ► But I just found it interesting that after two years,

00:59:17 ◼   ► she has started thinking about it right at the time

00:59:21 ◼   ► of potential new watches.

00:59:24 ◼   ► And so I will be watching what they do with the old ones

00:59:27 ◼   ► very keenly and seeing if they will

00:59:32 ◼   ► do anything with the old ones,

00:59:34 ◼   ► I really think they're gonna come down in price.

00:59:35 ◼   ► I think they've gotta compete with the $199 Fitbit area.

00:59:40 ◼   ► And if that means buying a new watch,

00:59:42 ◼   ► then I think that's fine for a lot of people.

00:59:44 ◼   ► So I guess we'll see.

00:59:46 ◼   ► It's a pseudo dilemma, really, not a real dilemma.

00:59:48 ◼   ► - And the same kind of thing,

00:59:50 ◼   ► and I don't know what it would take Adina to upgrade hers.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Like I don't know if she has any interest

00:59:54 ◼   ► in doing it, really.

00:59:56 ◼   ► And I don't think that any of the features that I want,

00:59:58 ◼   ► she would care about enough to actually change it.

01:00:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:00:02 ◼   ► 'Cause if you're not using a lot of apps,

01:00:03 ◼   ► and if you're using it for fitness tracking,

01:00:06 ◼   ► and you're using it for like incoming notifications.

01:00:08 ◼   ► - And having your calendar on your watch face

01:00:10 ◼   ► kind of stuff, you know?

01:00:11 ◼   ► - The speed isn't that big of a deal.

01:00:14 ◼   ► Like, I have gotten even less angsty about the speed

01:00:19 ◼   ► because I've just stopped using apps on it.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Like, it is for notifications and fitness,

01:00:24 ◼   ► and it's fine for that.

01:00:26 ◼   ► - And watchOS 3 is probably gonna make it a lot better.

01:00:30 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that's the other side of this coin, right?

01:00:32 ◼   ► That WatchOS 3 on introducing hardware is faster,

01:00:36 ◼   ► and does it cross that threshold into acceptable usage?

01:00:41 ◼   ► It may, and definitely for somebody

01:00:43 ◼   ► who's not gonna use it heavily,

01:00:45 ◼   ► then I think it would definitely be more than fine.

01:00:47 ◼   ► What I think's gonna happen is WatchOS 3

01:00:49 ◼   ► is going to extend the life of the original Apple Watch,

01:00:53 ◼   ► not make it shorter, right?

01:00:55 ◼   ► People complain that new iOS updates run slower

01:00:58 ◼   ► on older hardware and that's true sometimes and that sort of forces them

01:01:02 ◼   ► to update right so iOS 7 comes out and everybody with the iPhone 3GS or

01:01:06 ◼   ► whatever has to update. Definitely happens. I think the opposite is gonna

01:01:12 ◼   ► happen here where the watch one is so much better all of a sudden on watch OS

01:01:18 ◼   ► 3 then people will be happy just to update their software and get another

01:01:24 ◼   ► year out of it. It's an interesting change, but something that I think will satisfy a

01:01:30 ◼   ► lot of people for another 12 or 18 months.

01:01:34 ◼   ► Should we take a break?

01:01:37 ◼   ► Let's take a break.

01:01:38 ◼   ► This week's episode is also brought to you by Pingdom. You can start monitoring your

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01:03:54 ◼   ► Mark Gurman has been on fire recently, posting many, many, many things and he surprised us

01:04:01 ◼   ► all yesterday with some news about the refreshments, the upcoming refreshments to the Mac lineup

01:04:06 ◼   ► and the iPad lineup as well.

01:04:10 ◼   ► So I want to break this down into the two different sections that Mark touched on.

01:04:14 ◼   ► We'll start off with the iPad.

01:04:17 ◼   ► Starts off with, and Federico I know this is important to you, Apple may roll out the

01:04:22 ◼   ► new iPad software features, so this may increase iPad software, doesn't give any details on

01:04:28 ◼   ► what they might be really, as part of an upgrade to the iOS operating system in the first half

01:04:33 ◼   ► of 2017, or save the enhancements for the next major iOS version later in the year.

01:04:39 ◼   ► I say spring or get the fudge out. That's how I feel. If we don't get these feet, if we have to wait until September for this stuff, I will be a very unhappy bunny.

01:04:49 ◼   ► I mean, last time I heard the plan was to, and I wrote this on McStories, the plan was to kind of split up iOS 10 and iPhone stuff in September and iPad stuff in the spring.

01:04:59 ◼   ► And it seems like Gurman heard the same thing, but he has the addition of, which seems like maybe a backup, you know, one of those backup plans that you gotta have in an article like this.

01:05:08 ◼   ► - Hedging your bets, you could say.

01:05:10 ◼   ► - Exactly, if it doesn't come out next spring,

01:05:12 ◼   ► it's gonna be in iOS 11.

01:05:14 ◼   ► But it's definitely at least some pockets of people

01:05:19 ◼   ► within Apple have shared with other people,

01:05:22 ◼   ► not just me, but I'm pretty sure Jason heard the same,

01:05:25 ◼   ► that was the plan to kind of have iPhone in September

01:05:28 ◼   ► and give more time to engineers and designers

01:05:31 ◼   ► to work on iPad stuff for spring to make it coincide

01:05:34 ◼   ► with an iPad event, with new iPads,

01:05:36 ◼   ► and maybe with like last year, maybe there could be a reveal of iOS 10.2, 10.3 in January

01:05:45 ◼   ► to have like an open beta so developers can adapt and then have a public reveal and public

01:05:50 ◼   ► launch in March or April. I think it makes sense, but German doesn't go into the details

01:05:54 ◼   ► really of what these software features for the iPad could be. I mean, it does mention

01:05:58 ◼   ► the Apple Pencil, which I know Myke, you have a few thoughts on.

01:06:02 ◼   ► The planned iPad update will include improvements to the Apple Pencil, a handwriting and drawing

01:06:06 ◼   ► style is aimed at professionals, according to one of the people. Apple has considered

01:06:10 ◼   ► allowing users to annotate objects in many applications across the whole operating system,

01:06:14 ◼   ► including in Mail, Safari, iMessage, similar to what Samsung offers on its Note smartphones,

01:06:19 ◼   ► the person said. Currently, Apple only supports pencil functionality in specifically developed

01:06:23 ◼   ► apps.

01:06:24 ◼   ► I do have lots of thoughts on this. I think that this and the early testing of this and

01:06:28 ◼   ► the attempted implementation of this is what broke pencil input in the previous betas in

01:06:34 ◼   ► in the, what beta was that?

01:06:36 ◼   ► Was it iOS 9, wasn't it?

01:06:37 ◼   ► So this was, was it release versions?

01:06:40 ◼   ► Honey--

01:06:41 ◼   ► - 9.3.

01:06:42 ◼   ► - 9.3, the beta's for 9.3, thank you Federico.

01:06:45 ◼   ► And that eventually came back, Apple said they were working

01:06:47 ◼   ► on some stuff and that's why, and now it's blah blah blah.

01:06:51 ◼   ► So I don't think that this additional feature

01:06:55 ◼   ► would stop the input that I've been using

01:06:59 ◼   ► and many of us use because I don't think

01:07:00 ◼   ► they wanna get into that again.

01:07:02 ◼   ► I think that there's two likelihoods here.

01:07:05 ◼   ► I think the least likely would be that there is some kind of software button

01:07:08 ◼   ► that you hit

01:07:10 ◼   ► in the OS. This could maybe be in Control Center or I thought that

01:07:14 ◼   ► maybe it could be

01:07:15 ◼   ► in the split view, like you slide over to split view, you hit this button

01:07:18 ◼   ► and it freezes the UI and you're then able to draw on it or take notes on it, that

01:07:22 ◼   ► kind of thing.

01:07:23 ◼   ► But what I actually think it's going to be

01:07:25 ◼   ► is a new pencil which has a button on it

01:07:28 ◼   ► and when you hit that button you can mark up whatever's on the screen.

01:07:32 ◼   ► And the reason I think this is because it allows Apple to sell more pencils to the next

01:07:37 ◼   ► upgrades of the iPad and it will keep that ASP up.

01:07:41 ◼   ► I think there's going to be all new function, like so I think we're going to see a smart

01:07:45 ◼   ► keyboard with the function row, not the touch screen one, but just like a general function

01:07:50 ◼   ► row.

01:07:51 ◼   ► So I think with every update there will be new peripherals, like updates to the peripherals

01:07:55 ◼   ► as well because it keeps the ASP up. I think that's what Apple care about because if they

01:08:00 ◼   ► had the same pencil and the same keyboard, I'm just buying the iPad and I think they

01:08:04 ◼   ► want everyone to buy a whole new suite of products every single time. Am I crazy?

01:08:09 ◼   ► It could be. No, it could be. I mean, they could even justify the new pencil model with,

01:08:13 ◼   ► I don't know, reduced latency, you know, like a better recognition of touches, whatever,

01:08:18 ◼   ► better pressure sensitivity. They could bundle up other features in addition to, you know,

01:08:22 ◼   ► special market mode. I do wonder if Apple is institutionally against the idea of having a button on a pencil,

01:08:30 ◼   ► if only because of that beautiful white polished design.

01:08:33 ◼   ► Well, it could be on the top, and it wouldn't really change much.

01:08:37 ◼   ► Definitely interesting when you consider that Apple has been prototyping different versions of the pencil,

01:08:43 ◼   ► one with their eraser. They definitely played around with an iPad cover with the pencil holder.

01:08:49 ◼   ► So there's been a lot of tests within Apple to kind of have, to kind of reimagine the idea of a pencil and to kind of make it more part of the iPad with more versatility over the past few years.

01:09:02 ◼   ► And I think it'll be interesting to see kind of what Apple lands on for the next iPad Pro and the next Apple Pencil, if they think maybe having a button at this point is as, you know, a safe, you know, it's the good idea.

01:09:17 ◼   ► I think it makes sense to have special annotation modes in different apps,

01:09:23 ◼   ► especially when you consider that the iPad is being used more and more in the enterprise

01:09:29 ◼   ► to be able to mark up PDFs, to be able to mark up Safari web pages, and to kind of move more

01:09:35 ◼   ► naturally between touch input and pencil input with the special mode. I think it makes sense.

01:09:41 ◼   ► But I also want to see more integration between the way that you carry the iPad around, because right now it's already fragmented, right?

01:09:50 ◼   ► You gotta put the iPad with the Smart Cover, then you gotta remember the Pencil, there's a risk that you're gonna use the Pencil Tip, you're gonna lose the Pencil Cap.

01:09:57 ◼   ► I think there needs to be a better way to carry the Pencil around.

01:10:01 ◼   ► And I also do wonder, this is unrelated to the Pencil, but I also do wonder if eventually we're gonna have some kind of 3D touch on the iPad Pro.

01:10:10 ◼   ► iPad Pro. German doesn't mention 3D touch at all. He mentions faster displays, which to me sounds like maybe we're gonna get a resolution bump and maybe we're gonna get, like I said, reduced latency because when he mentions faster displays, he means the pencil performance is gonna be even better than it is right now.

01:10:28 ◼   ► So that sounds great, but will we ever get 3D touch?

01:10:31 ◼   ► Now, I've heard from quite a few people that there were all kinds of iPad prototypes with 3D touch,

01:10:38 ◼   ► but the main question is, it's a problem of ergonomics really.

01:10:44 ◼   ► How do you apply pressure on an iPad, on a smart cover, without risking making it fall over the table?

01:10:49 ◼   ► And there's all kinds of differences between the iPhone and the iPad.

01:10:54 ◼   ► It's the same reason why even if technically a race to wake in iOS 10 could have worked on the iPad,

01:11:00 ◼   ► it doesn't really make much sense because how do you race an iPad on a desk to turn it on?

01:11:05 ◼   ► So there are these ergonomical differences between the iPhone and the iPad you gotta keep in mind.

01:11:11 ◼   ► And I think it especially makes sense for 3D Touch to have this kind of drawing a line on the sand and saying,

01:11:18 ◼   ► and saying, "OK, 3D Touch is iPhone only."

01:11:21 ◼   ► But as we're seeing with iOS 10,

01:11:23 ◼   ► there's going to be a lot more features dependent

01:11:27 ◼   ► or at least made better by 3D Touch.

01:11:30 ◼   ► So the fact that you don't have those features on the iPad

01:11:33 ◼   ► kind of makes the experience worse

01:11:35 ◼   ► because you can 3D Touch on Control Center

01:11:37 ◼   ► when you cannot do the same on the iPad.

01:11:38 ◼   ► You can 3D Touch notifications on the phone

01:11:40 ◼   ► while you cannot do the same on the iPad, you gotta swipe.

01:11:42 ◼   ► And I know, Myke, that you're no fan of the swipe

01:11:45 ◼   ► to expand notifications.

01:11:46 ◼   ► - Don't like it.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Exactly. So eventually there has to be some kind of way to replicate 3D touch on the iPad.

01:11:56 ◼   ► And a few people say, "Well, that's going to be pressure sensitivity with the pencil."

01:11:59 ◼   ► Well, it's not an optimal solution because the pencil, again, is going to be something that you use to annotate, to draw.

01:12:07 ◼   ► Because you've got to understand, Myke, that Q and CGP Grey, I think, are in the minority of people who use the pencil for navigation.

01:12:13 ◼   ► I totally understand what you do, but I don't think it's the majority of people who use a pencil that way.

01:12:18 ◼   ► So, I wonder, basically I wonder, that's what I do, I sit down and wonder.

01:12:23 ◼   ► I just want to touch on why you said that minority, I agree, but we are a vocal minority.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Yes you are, yes you are, as we've seen you are.

01:12:32 ◼   ► Very vocal. Yeah, I agree with you, there's got to be something there, but I don't know what it is.

01:12:37 ◼   ► There's also a rumor, and we haven't mentioned this yet until now, but Germin's now talking about it.

01:12:43 ◼   ► talking about it. And I don't think it's coming from the same sources. He's quoting, is it

01:12:48 ◼   ► Ming, I can't say, is it Ming-Ji Kuo? I'm gonna go with.

01:12:53 ◼   ► Maybe Ming-Ji Kuo?

01:12:55 ◼   ► Ming-Ji Kuo, I think. And who did he write for? He's an analyst, right?

01:12:59 ◼   ► He's an analyst.

01:13:00 ◼   ► Ming-Ji Kuo, I'm gonna go with. And they have spoken about a 10.5 inch iPad Pro as a rumor.

01:13:09 ◼   ► And I've been thinking about this, like why would they do a 10.5 inch iPad Pro?

01:13:14 ◼   ► So we have a 9.7, a 10.5 and a 12.9, that's insane.

01:13:18 ◼   ► So I've been thinking about this and the way that I've settled upon this is that the 9.7

01:13:23 ◼   ► is kept for the Air model going forward and 10.5 and 12.9 become the Pro sizes.

01:13:30 ◼   ► So they actually have two sizes of Pro, they have the regular one and the mini.

01:13:34 ◼   ► And the reason I think they might do this is 10.5 inches, whilst it's not a lot bigger,

01:13:39 ◼   ► it will allow for bigger keyboards, software and hardware, which would be nicer,

01:13:43 ◼   ► and just that little bit more extra space on the screen for split view and stuff like that.

01:13:47 ◼   ► So 10.5, 12.9, okay.

01:13:49 ◼   ► And I think they won't do a 9.7 anymore.

01:13:52 ◼   ► Federico, what do you think?

01:13:55 ◼   ► I don't think the 9.7 format, you know, it's gonna stay on the Pro line.

01:14:00 ◼   ► I think going slightly bigger for the Small Pro makes more sense.

01:14:04 ◼   ► Again, especially when you consider split view and, you know,

01:14:08 ◼   ► the software keyboard with the shortcut bar, having just a little more space helps.

01:14:14 ◼   ► I don't know if the iPad mini is going to stay around, honestly, because it feels like

01:14:19 ◼   ► it's really being cannibalized by the bigger iPhones and it seems like the iPad is moving

01:14:28 ◼   ► more towards a pro-sumer, if you will, scenario.

01:14:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:14:36 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know about that. I think this too, but then I also think to myself there's

01:14:41 ◼   ► probably also a strong chance that the iPad mini is the biggest selling iPad. Like I agree

01:14:45 ◼   ► with you, that's how I feel. Like Adina has an iPad mini and I think it's ridiculous.

01:14:50 ◼   ► Like it's basically the size of the phone, but she loves it and I really wonder because

01:14:55 ◼   ► it's the cheapest and it's small and it's probably really easy for kids. Steven, is

01:14:59 ◼   ► that right?

01:15:00 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean we've got a mini that the kids use and it's nice for that. My big problem

01:15:06 ◼   ► with the the theory is are you going to strand like is the 9.7 Pro that we have

01:15:13 ◼   ► now is that it's going to be stranded in time like the one and that's sort of

01:15:18 ◼   ► weird right because they made such a huge deal when they announced it that 9.7

01:15:21 ◼   ► is the ideal size for an iPad so we had to bring the Pro features to this size

01:15:26 ◼   ► you know it and it's not like they haven't done three sizes stuff like that

01:15:30 ◼   ► 12, 15, and 17 inch powerbooks, but 10.5 and 9.7 are really close. I don't think

01:15:38 ◼   ► you'd be able to pick them out. No, and maybe those size differences

01:15:43 ◼   ► are inherently more noticeable on the iPad than they were on the powerbooks

01:15:47 ◼   ► because of the touch deal, right? You're touching the glass the whole time so

01:15:52 ◼   ► any additional size feels better. But I kind of think this whole thing

01:15:57 ◼   ► thing comes down to like there's some sort of weird misunderstanding in the

01:16:00 ◼   ► supply chain and this rumor and I don't I just don't know if they're gonna do it.

01:16:05 ◼   ► That said like you know I went from the 12.9 to the 9.7 and I said on MacPower

01:16:11 ◼   ► users a couple weeks ago that like I could kind of get behind an iPad Pro in

01:16:17 ◼   ► between the two sizes but it seems like it's awfully messy if they're gonna do

01:16:22 ◼   ► all three it seems like it's messy if the Pro gets a little bit bigger and

01:16:27 ◼   ► then the 9.7 becomes the error 3 or I think more likely the 9.7 would go away.

01:16:32 ◼   ► Yeah just disappear. But so like there's a lot of weirdness in there I don't think

01:16:36 ◼   ► there's any I don't think there's any clean way this gets done but uh you know

01:16:43 ◼   ► who knows it just seems right now I write it off as like some numbers got

01:16:48 ◼   ► weird somewhere or somebody measured the back case and not the screen or like

01:16:51 ◼   ► something is is off somewhere in this in this story. Let's talk about the Mac. I

01:16:58 ◼   ► remember that. Hello Macintosh updates coming as soon as October is what what

01:17:05 ◼   ► was being said by German. A part of the line so he's talking about a big line

01:17:10 ◼   ► refresh and he mentions new iMacs with USB C and the option to have better AMD

01:17:16 ◼   ► graphics chips. Mentions the MacBook Pro which we'll get to in a moment but also

01:17:21 ◼   ► a USB-C MacBook Air. Shocking. What? What? I don't understand. So my only

01:17:31 ◼   ► thought about why the MacBook Air may still be alive is, so the thought was the

01:17:37 ◼   ► MacBook Pro is going to get so much thinner and lighter it's gonna kind of be like a

01:17:39 ◼   ► MacBook Air and so the MacBook Air doesn't need to exist anymore. If the

01:17:45 ◼   ► current thinking I think is that the MacBook Pro, this new one, is not going

01:17:49 ◼   ► be tapered it's going to be a little thinner and a little bit lighter but

01:17:52 ◼   ► it's not really going to be a MacBook Air territory yet and so if you really

01:17:56 ◼   ► want it then and light you're stuck with the MacBook which is running the core M5

01:18:00 ◼   ► you know processor the much slower processor. With the MacBook Air you can

01:18:04 ◼   ► get an i5 or an i7 you get a loaded MacBook Air speed wise it's a pretty

01:18:08 ◼   ► good machine and removing the MacBook Air would leave a gap in between and I

01:18:15 ◼   ► think that the MacBook Air is extremely popular I see them I see MacBook Air is

01:18:18 ◼   ► just everywhere it seems and to remove it without having something that really

01:18:24 ◼   ► fits the the spot in the lineup that it held may be a little weird and so my

01:18:30 ◼   ► thought is now that the MacBook Pro is and the MacBook Air will kind of keep

01:18:35 ◼   ► the same relationship they've always had yes the air is thinner and lighter but

01:18:38 ◼   ► still really powerful the MacBook is like if you want thin and light and

01:18:41 ◼   ► don't care about anything else and the MacBook Pro is I need all the power I

01:18:44 ◼   ► can get to go and so I think the relationship between the three will

01:18:48 ◼   ► stick around. I do think that if they update to USB-C that that's got to be

01:18:52 ◼   ► the last one. Like I think that that we are getting much closer to the end of

01:18:56 ◼   ► the Map of Gar's life than the beginning of it but maybe the end is just not here

01:19:01 ◼   ► quite yet. And what's interesting as we've been recording actually this just

01:19:06 ◼   ► popped up there's a link over on the verges in the show notes and tells

01:19:11 ◼   ► announced Kirby Lake which is the successor to Skylake which is the CPU

01:19:15 ◼   ► family that Apple more or less skipped. What we've been waiting on are Skylake

01:19:20 ◼   ► MacBook Pros and now if they announce Skylake MacBook Pros I'm gonna be really

01:19:26 ◼   ► sad because now what is it Kaby Lake is out so maybe they're gonna go

01:19:34 ◼   ► with this instead of the Skylake maybe they're skipping Skylake completely who

01:19:38 ◼   ► knows I will leave the processor talk to ATP they do a really good job

01:19:41 ◼   ► breaking down the differences and why we should care. It's all a little bit over

01:19:45 ◼   ► my head but clearly it's time right that it is time. I don't think we're going to

01:19:52 ◼   ► see Mac shipping before Sierra. We're going to get to that in a minute with

01:19:55 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro but so what do they do? I guess that's the question right? Do they

01:20:00 ◼   ► announce MacBooks, Pros and iMacs and whatever at the event and say hey

01:20:06 ◼   ► they're going to be shipping in four weeks with Sierra? They could totally do

01:20:11 ◼   ► that there's a long history of that Apple saying we got new Macs gonna ship

01:20:14 ◼   ► next month they've done it for years and years and years and I think that if

01:20:19 ◼   ► Apple is only going to have one event they should do it in the event especially

01:20:23 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro if it's gonna get the overhaul that everyone says it's going

01:20:27 ◼   ► to get it a little too big for press like you know individual press meetings

01:20:33 ◼   ► like they'll invite somebody like Jason down and they'll show him the machine he

01:20:36 ◼   ► gets to write about it at an embargo and so does the virgin and gadget everybody

01:20:39 ◼   ► else. If the MacBook Pro has all these new features why not give it stage time?

01:20:45 ◼   ► It's your most popular computer, it's the one that there's a lot of pent-up

01:20:49 ◼   ► demand for. I mean I don't know, I mean it is wild to me the number of people I

01:20:55 ◼   ► know in the creative space that are not even nerds, like they don't listen to

01:21:00 ◼   ► this show but they they make video or they or they're photographers like they

01:21:05 ◼   ► work and they all need new MacBook Pros and they've all been waiting for new

01:21:09 ◼   ► MacBook Pros. I talked to a guy this past week, he's running a mid-2010 MacBook Pro

01:21:13 ◼   ► and he's like "I was going to update this year and they never came out." And so he's

01:21:16 ◼   ► just waiting. Like, there is demand for these things so why not give the people what they

01:21:20 ◼   ► want. Even if it's not shipping today, that's fine. Say "Hey, you can put your pre-orders

01:21:24 ◼   ► in or, you know, at the end of the month they're going to ship in these configs and these prices."

01:21:29 ◼   ► And I don't know, it's exhausting waiting for a new MacBook Pro.

01:21:33 ◼   ► I don't follow Mac stuff, but from my perspective, especially if this new computer has a programmable

01:21:41 ◼   ► keyboard row, to give an embargo to the press and to let the press know that there's an

01:21:48 ◼   ► SDK addition that developers gotta work with, it's weird.

01:21:53 ◼   ► And just because there's a programmable keyboard row and developers need to update their apps

01:21:59 ◼   ► take advantage of those functions, it makes total sense to me to have a, even, you know,

01:22:05 ◼   ► like 20 minutes on stage, Apple goes out, shows his new computer, says, "And by the

01:22:09 ◼   ► way, developers, you can now check the Sierra pre-release docs because there's an API to

01:22:14 ◼   ► take advantage of the function row." And just like the deal with the MacBook and Force Touch,

01:22:18 ◼   ► 20 minutes on stage, there's a developer SDK, go out, check it out, but it comes from Apple

01:22:23 ◼   ► on stage. It doesn't come from, and you know, total respect, but it doesn't come from JS

01:22:28 ◼   ► and six colors that says, "Oh, by the way, there's an SDK, you should go check it out."

01:22:32 ◼   ► You know, it just seems odd to have the...

01:22:36 ◼   ► You know, you could call it a developer feature and to have bloggers and the tech press take

01:22:43 ◼   ► care of that.

01:22:44 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:22:45 ◼   ► It doesn't sit right with me.

01:22:46 ◼   ► But more than that, even, like just from a fundamental level, you're making a big change

01:22:50 ◼   ► to a product line.

01:22:52 ◼   ► You're adding this new feature that's never existed before.

01:22:55 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:22:56 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know.

01:22:57 ◼   ► makes total sense to me to have it on stage. I'm like going against it like yeah everybody's

01:23:02 ◼   ► saying it's not happening it's not happening I just think they're not shipping until October

01:23:06 ◼   ► like I think they're gonna have them on stage next week I do want to go back real quick

01:23:10 ◼   ► to the MacBook Air because putting USB-C on it will they put a retina screen in it? No.

01:23:17 ◼   ► They're gonna ship new Macs without retina screens in them in 2016? I think that the

01:23:22 ◼   ► the MacBook Air is the cheap one. So why? I don't know. I mean I don't see him doing

01:23:28 ◼   ► it. I think that muddies the water a little bit. In some real time, follow up real quick,

01:23:34 ◼   ► this is the problem when you talk about things that are happening as you record. It seems

01:23:38 ◼   ► like the Intel announcement may just be for low powered stuff. So only for something that

01:23:43 ◼   ► would be like in the MacBook. These chips may not be available for the MacBook Pro class

01:23:48 ◼   ► machine yet.

01:23:49 ◼   ► Yeah, aimed at laptops and 2-in-1s.

01:23:52 ◼   ► Yeah, so Apple's not doing any of that stuff,

01:23:54 ◼   ► except in the MacBook.

01:23:55 ◼   ► So all that aside, the conversation

01:23:58 ◼   ► of what's going on with the Mac line

01:23:59 ◼   ► has lots of open threads right now.

01:24:02 ◼   ► And Apple needs to take time not only to release new products,

01:24:05 ◼   ► but I think there is a genuine concern on the part of Mac

01:24:10 ◼   ► enthusiasts-- and I know that I'm the only one here.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Yo, what's up?

01:24:14 ◼   ► Hey, that they're still paying attention, right?

01:24:17 ◼   ► 'cause you had all this noise around the MacBook.

01:24:19 ◼   ► You had that great article,

01:24:22 ◼   ► I think it was in Mashable with Phil Schiller

01:24:24 ◼   ► and all these hardware people about the MacBook,

01:24:26 ◼   ► like we designed the antennas to work around the speakers

01:24:29 ◼   ► and we did all this cross team,

01:24:34 ◼   ► cross knowledge type stuff

01:24:36 ◼   ► to build the best computer we could build.

01:24:38 ◼   ► And that was great and there's been nothing since.

01:24:41 ◼   ► And I think there was some excitement around that machine,

01:24:44 ◼   ► there was excitement around the Retina iMac two years ago.

01:24:46 ◼   ► I still want one, but it's been really quiet for a long time, and I have no doubt the Apple,

01:24:55 ◼   ► like I truly believe the Mac is still important to Apple.

01:24:58 ◼   ► I think it is especially important to somebody like Phil Schiller.

01:25:00 ◼   ► It seems like that's his sort of first love a little bit.

01:25:05 ◼   ► Like you're not supposed to have a favorite child, but he kind of secretly does, it seems.

01:25:09 ◼   ► I don't think the Mac is going out to pasture anytime soon, but I think there are people

01:25:14 ◼   ► who sort of feel like that may be true or feel that you know they make their like I

01:25:19 ◼   ► feel this way a little bit like I make my living on the Mac. Myke you do too really.

01:25:25 ◼   ► Yeah the Mac is important to me like yeah but it's just not my preferred operating system

01:25:29 ◼   ► it's not my preferred platform but it's the one that like I hate to say this like I'm

01:25:33 ◼   ► stuck with it. Yeah high praise from Myke. I like it but like I wish I could do everything

01:25:39 ◼   ► on the machines that I like most but right now like I don't want to do that like I've

01:25:43 ◼   ► I've spoken about this many times.

01:25:44 ◼   ► So I'm stuck with the Mac, so whilst I'm stuck with it,

01:25:47 ◼   ► I want the best stuff that I can get.

01:25:49 ◼   ► - Sure.

01:25:50 ◼   ► And I think there are people who feel that way,

01:25:52 ◼   ► that people feel like, I made my living on it.

01:25:55 ◼   ► It is my preferred OS still.

01:25:57 ◼   ► And I feel like I've been left out to dry a little bit.

01:26:02 ◼   ► Not that the machine I have isn't fine,

01:26:03 ◼   ► like I've got a current MacBook Pro, it's great,

01:26:06 ◼   ► but it's like the interest has waned, it feels like,

01:26:09 ◼   ► and I don't think that's the case,

01:26:10 ◼   ► and then Gapple needs to correct that perception.

01:26:13 ◼   ► Real quick though, we should talk about the MacBook Pro

01:26:14 ◼   ► because Germin brings up the OLED touch sensitive

01:26:19 ◼   ► function key bar row.

01:26:22 ◼   ► He has a name for it, the dynamic function row,

01:26:25 ◼   ► which definitely sounds like an Apple product name,

01:26:28 ◼   ► which is unusual for Germin.

01:26:30 ◼   ► Like usually product names and stuff are very tight-lipped.

01:26:33 ◼   ► Maybe this is just like what it's kind of called internally

01:26:35 ◼   ► and it'll be called, you know, Magic Touch.

01:26:37 ◼   ► - I think if it doesn't have magic in it,

01:26:39 ◼   ► I'll be very surprised.

01:26:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:26:42 ◼   ► either Magic Touch or I don't know.

01:26:45 ◼   ► - Magic Row.

01:26:46 ◼   ► - I don't know, Magic Row? - 1-2-3 Magic Row.

01:26:48 ◼   ► - Magic Row.

01:26:49 ◼   ► - Rainbow Road.

01:26:50 ◼   ► - Rainbow Road.

01:26:52 ◼   ► - Oh, no, no, no, guys, I got it, the Smart Row.

01:26:54 ◼   ► - Smart Row, whatever it's called.

01:26:57 ◼   ► The name is probably internal.

01:26:59 ◼   ► He has sort of, what he talks about

01:27:02 ◼   ► has been my biggest fear,

01:27:03 ◼   ► and I've written a couple of times about it,

01:27:05 ◼   ► you can go read it,

01:27:05 ◼   ► that the thing is gonna change modes

01:27:08 ◼   ► based on the app you're in,

01:27:10 ◼   ► And the example he gives is particularly troubling to me

01:27:14 ◼   ► that if you're on the desktop,

01:27:15 ◼   ► you see brightness and volume,

01:27:18 ◼   ► but if you're in Safari, you would get find

01:27:23 ◼   ► and iMovie would show clips for cutting,

01:27:27 ◼   ► more precise sliders, that sort of thing.

01:27:30 ◼   ► My big question around all this,

01:27:32 ◼   ► I think Apple's definitely gonna do

01:27:34 ◼   ► application function keys.

01:27:37 ◼   ► My question is, are they going to open up to third parties?

01:27:39 ◼   ► I think they will.

01:27:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:27:41 ◼   ► - I think they have to to get buy-in, right?

01:27:42 ◼   ► If it's just Apple software, then what's the point?

01:27:44 ◼   ► But my bigger question is like how,

01:27:48 ◼   ► is it going to be distracting, right?

01:27:49 ◼   ► If I'm command tabbing between Final Cut Pro

01:27:53 ◼   ► and Finder back and forth, which I find myself doing,

01:27:55 ◼   ► or between Logic and Finder,

01:27:58 ◼   ► which I find myself doing several times a week.

01:28:01 ◼   ► Is it going to be distracting that things

01:28:02 ◼   ► under my fingertips, sort of in the lower corner

01:28:06 ◼   ► of my vision, are changing?

01:28:08 ◼   ► And I have no doubt that Apple's doing this.

01:28:12 ◼   ► I just wonder how weird it's gonna be to get used to it.

01:28:16 ◼   ► And like for me, so I use a MacBook Pro, a 15 inch.

01:28:20 ◼   ► And here where I record, it's on a stand open

01:28:23 ◼   ► to the left of my display.

01:28:24 ◼   ► But at home, it's in clamshell mode,

01:28:26 ◼   ► tucked behind my Thunderbolt display.

01:28:29 ◼   ► So I'm not even gonna get the benefits of it

01:28:30 ◼   ► because I don't type at my MacBook Pro's keyboard

01:28:34 ◼   ► unless I'm out and about somewhere.

01:28:36 ◼   ► And so like all this stuff is great,

01:28:38 ◼   ► but a MacBook Pro is on a stand to the left of my display,

01:28:40 ◼   ► I'm not gonna reach up and like,

01:28:42 ◼   ► I don't think unless it's really, really good

01:28:45 ◼   ► to like make cuts and stuff,

01:28:46 ◼   ► 'cause I can do it with the keyboard shortcuts

01:28:48 ◼   ► that are already under my fingertips.

01:28:50 ◼   ► So I just wonder how distracting it's gonna be,

01:28:52 ◼   ► how weird it's gonna be to get used to,

01:28:54 ◼   ► and then how useful it's gonna be to someone like me

01:28:56 ◼   ► who uses a MacBook Pro basically like a desktop,

01:29:00 ◼   ► and that just puts aside everyone like Myke

01:29:03 ◼   ► who uses a true desktop with the,

01:29:05 ◼   ► either the Apple hardware keyboard

01:29:07 ◼   ► or a third party keyboard, like this stuff's gonna be really locked away to a subset of

01:29:11 ◼   ► users and that's going to limit its adoption.

01:29:14 ◼   ► So if the MacBook Air is getting revised with USB-C does it get this?

01:29:19 ◼   ► Like does Apple try to spread this out quickly?

01:29:21 ◼   ► There's lots of questions and no answers and I'm hoping that Apple puts it all to rest

01:29:26 ◼   ► very soon.

01:29:27 ◼   ► All right so let me let me say what I think here.

01:29:32 ◼   ► I feel like most people are way overthinking this.

01:29:36 ◼   ► I think the dynamic row is going to be based on the similar idea of the shortcut bar on the iPad.

01:29:42 ◼   ► So you know how on top of the software keyboard you got those extra icons for the developers can

01:29:47 ◼   ► program? It's going to be the same principle I think. There's going to be some fixed buttons

01:29:52 ◼   ► for like on iOS you got copy and paste they're always in the same spot they're always there.

01:29:56 ◼   ► It's going to be the same on on MacOS you always get like the volume the brightness like the the

01:30:01 ◼   ► system stuff is always going to be there. Then developers are going to have an API, something

01:30:06 ◼   ► like UI text input on iOS, they can define what's it called, like a UI bar button item with a

01:30:15 ◼   ► UI text input system stuff from iOS 9. They're basically going to be the same, they can define

01:30:20 ◼   ► some shortcuts that appear when their app opens and text input is active. And it's not going to

01:30:27 ◼   ► be distracting because it's the same as iOS. Depending on the app that you're using, you get

01:30:31 ◼   ► different shortcuts. And I think it's awesome because there's a bunch of stuff on my Mac's keyboard.

01:30:35 ◼   ► I mean, I don't use a Mac, but when I look at it, I mean, why do I need to have Launchpad? Why do I

01:30:40 ◼   ► need to waste all of these buttons when I'm... No one is Launchpad. Exactly. And it goes back to the Steve

01:30:45 ◼   ► Jobs, you know, introduction of the keyboard. Physical keyboards are great, but for some functions,

01:30:50 ◼   ► it's better to customize them with software. And I think it's going to be a similar idea to the

01:30:55 ◼   ► implementation on iOS 9 and the iPad and it's gonna be nice and it's gonna be fancier because

01:31:01 ◼   ► you know it's a Mac maybe it's gonna have colors, it's gonna have animations for like sliders

01:31:07 ◼   ► I imagine I don't know but it could be possible. I think part of the reason this is so captivating

01:31:13 ◼   ► even to you who will probably never use it is that it's something like new to the Mac that's

01:31:19 ◼   ► I agree with you they're going I think they can borrow a lot from iOS and iOS does it well

01:31:23 ◼   ► but it's not like linen right like when they put linen all over everything in

01:31:27 ◼   ► line and broke full screen mode like that came from iOS but different than

01:31:32 ◼   ► this is something new something innovative hopefully and I think that's

01:31:36 ◼   ► why everyone is so worked up about it but I want to see an action I do have

01:31:41 ◼   ► you know plans to to purchase a new MacBook Pro go back to the 13 inch but I

01:31:46 ◼   ► want to see Apple build the case for this thing being useful and the adoption

01:31:51 ◼   ► curve is gonna probably hurt that right you see the same thing on iOS Apple does

01:31:55 ◼   ► something new like force touch it's only on two models of phone and it takes some

01:32:00 ◼   ► time for that to kind of trickle down if I can borrow a phrase and and spread out

01:32:05 ◼   ► to everybody. This will be the same thing but um I know it's interesting the thing

01:32:12 ◼   ► that he wraps up with really caught my eye is that Apple is working with LG to

01:32:15 ◼   ► create a new 5k standalone display and there's been a lot of argument back and

01:32:20 ◼   ► that USB C / Thunderbolt 3 which real quickly the MacBook has USB C but it's

01:32:28 ◼   ► not Thunderbolt. Thunderbolt 3 and USB C can be bundled over the same connector

01:32:33 ◼   ► over the same wire if the chipset supports it so that the core M that's in

01:32:37 ◼   ► the MacBook does not. Assumably whatever is in the MacBook Air and MacBook Pro

01:32:42 ◼   ► would support USB C and Thunderbolt 3 over the same connector. That's I think

01:32:47 ◼   ► really confusing to people.

01:32:49 ◼   ► I think they maybe should have collapsed that further

01:32:51 ◼   ► into one standard, maybe they will in the future.

01:32:54 ◼   ► But if it can be driven over a cable

01:32:56 ◼   ► or maybe over two cables, then if this standalone

01:33:00 ◼   ► 5K monitor, whenever it shows up, like, I'm sold.

01:33:04 ◼   ► I really want external retina.

01:33:08 ◼   ► I've gone back and forth a lot over the last year.

01:33:11 ◼   ► We were talking about it on the show.

01:33:12 ◼   ► I'm talking about the two of you privately of,

01:33:14 ◼   ► do I do a retina iMac at home and then have like

01:33:17 ◼   ► MacBook Air or MacBook even for when I'm out and about. And what I keep coming back to

01:33:21 ◼   ► is that I don't want two machines. That I want one machine, a powerful MacBook Pro,

01:33:27 ◼   ► so I can have all my stuff with me all the time, I can have all the power with me all

01:33:30 ◼   ► the time, and a really nice external setup. So at home I use a Thunderbolt display, rest

01:33:35 ◼   ► in peace. And it would be nice to have Retina there. So lots of potential ways to spend

01:33:40 ◼   ► my money this fall, and I hope that Apple is going to give us some ways to do that.

01:33:46 ◼   ► - It's saving up time, everybody.

01:33:48 ◼   ► - It is, it is that time of year.

01:33:50 ◼   ► It really stinks, 'cause it's right for WWDC,

01:33:52 ◼   ► you start saving, you know, you spend all your money

01:33:54 ◼   ► in San Francisco and then you guys are saving,

01:33:56 ◼   ► again, for new phones and everything.

01:33:57 ◼   ► - At least they're not gonna do iPads as well.

01:34:00 ◼   ► - That's true, and you know, that's,

01:34:02 ◼   ► when you guys were talking about that,

01:34:03 ◼   ► I had that thought, like, it does kind of break up

01:34:05 ◼   ► the purchase cycle a little bit,

01:34:07 ◼   ► and I think that having them in the spring

01:34:08 ◼   ► is also good for education,

01:34:10 ◼   ► if it's early enough in the spring.

01:34:12 ◼   ► So I think that, you know, the days,

01:34:15 ◼   ► What was it, was it two or three years ago?

01:34:18 ◼   ► We've done this show for so long,

01:34:18 ◼   ► I can't even keep track.

01:34:19 ◼   ► Two or three years ago, where like,

01:34:20 ◼   ► there were no product releases until the fall.

01:34:23 ◼   ► - Well, it's like that kind of last year as well.

01:34:26 ◼   ► I remember like in the last few months of the year,

01:34:28 ◼   ► I bought an iPhone and an iPad and an iMac.

01:34:30 ◼   ► It was horrible, and a watch.

01:34:32 ◼   ► - It may have been three years ago,

01:34:33 ◼   ► and I think it was the first time

01:34:35 ◼   ► that it was really noticeable,

01:34:36 ◼   ► where we're like, "Does Apple still make products?"

01:34:39 ◼   ► Like, have they stopped?

01:34:41 ◼   ► Something happened and they can't release new things?

01:34:44 ◼   ► And so the iPad moving into the spring definitely helps that, you know, the people, those of

01:34:48 ◼   ► us who have the vice of buying new phones every year.

01:34:52 ◼   ► If you want to find out more about our show notes for this week, head on over to relay.fm/connected/106.

01:34:56 ◼   ► Federico is online at maxstories.net and @Vittici on Twitter, V I T I C C I. Steven is at 512pixels.net

01:35:03 ◼   ► and he is @ismh. I am @imike, I M Y K E. I want to thank everybody that became a RelayFM

01:35:09 ◼   ► member in the last couple of weeks, really appreciate it. If you are a member, there

01:35:12 ◼   ► There are still a few more bonus shows to come out.

01:35:16 ◼   ► I put out a huge Reconcileable Differences today with John Roderick joining the cast

01:35:22 ◼   ► for the three of them.

01:35:23 ◼   ► It's very fun.

01:35:24 ◼   ► So if you're a Relay FM member you can get those shows.

01:35:26 ◼   ► You can go to relay.fm/membership to find out more.

01:35:29 ◼   ► And I want to thank again our sponsors for this week's episode.

01:35:32 ◼   ► The great folk over at Pingdom, Eero and Freshbooks.

01:35:37 ◼   ► Thank you as always for listening and we will be back next time.

01:35:41 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:35:42 ◼   ► Arrivederci. Adios.