Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 116.

00:00:10 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Gemini 2 from MacPaw and MailRoute.

00:00:15 ◼   ► I am back from the dead and my name is Myke Hurley, and I am joined by Mr. Steven Hackett.

00:00:20 ◼   ► Welcome back, Michael.

00:00:22 ◼   ► Thank you, and Mr. Federica Vittucci.

00:00:24 ◼   ► Hey, Myke, welcome back.

00:00:25 ◼   ► Every time I'm away from the show, I don't know when or why this started,

00:00:29 ◼   ► Listeners of the show may know that I am for some reason pronounced as dead every single

00:00:35 ◼   ► time.

00:00:37 ◼   ► To the point now where I think I heard it last time, I can't remember exactly what you

00:00:41 ◼   ► said last week but it was pretty far in that direction to which I exclaimed something at

00:00:48 ◼   ► the time I can't remember and then thought to myself one day I will be and then that's

00:00:52 ◼   ► on you.

00:00:54 ◼   ► I think it was that we could find you in the afterlife.

00:00:57 ◼   ► There you go.

00:00:58 ◼   ► That was it.

00:00:59 ◼   ► - Yep, that was at the end.

00:01:01 ◼   ► There was also one at the start as well.

00:01:02 ◼   ► But yeah, the Afterlife one,

00:01:05 ◼   ► I really, really enjoyed that one.

00:01:06 ◼   ► I think I heard it on the plane

00:01:07 ◼   ► and made a sound that I shouldn't have made

00:01:09 ◼   ► with people around me.

00:01:11 ◼   ► It was fun.

00:01:12 ◼   ► But I am back from the dead.

00:01:14 ◼   ► Zombie mic.

00:01:15 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:01:16 ◼   ► So we should follow up.

00:01:18 ◼   ► We are going to start in what you named Dongle Town

00:01:22 ◼   ► on this week's upgrade, which was very--

00:01:24 ◼   ► - Take a little trip down to Dongle Town.

00:01:27 ◼   ► That's the place where everybody visits now,

00:01:30 ◼   ► nobody wants to be there.

00:01:31 ◼   ► The Dongle Town tourism board is doing its best.

00:01:34 ◼   ► - Are you done?

00:01:36 ◼   ► - I think so.

00:01:37 ◼   ► - So you guys already covered it, it happened on Friday,

00:01:41 ◼   ► but Apple has dropped the dongle prices.

00:01:44 ◼   ► And thankfully for people like me

00:01:47 ◼   ► who bought a bunch of them early,

00:01:49 ◼   ► I got a bunch of store credit,

00:01:50 ◼   ► which I will probably put towards--

00:01:52 ◼   ► - More dongles. - Air pods, air pods,

00:01:54 ◼   ► whenever they ship.

00:01:56 ◼   ► And I think more interestingly, the displays

00:01:59 ◼   ► that they have made with LG are cheaper as well.

00:02:02 ◼   ► That's not something I saw coming.

00:02:03 ◼   ► I think it was a surprise to a lot of people.

00:02:06 ◼   ► But what I wanted to talk about was not necessarily

00:02:10 ◼   ► the cheaper dongles, but the displays,

00:02:12 ◼   ► like everything else Apple announces,

00:02:15 ◼   ► are not shipping for a while.

00:02:17 ◼   ► So the Apple Watch is still several weeks out.

00:02:20 ◼   ► The displays are like months out.

00:02:22 ◼   ► The Touch Bar MacBook Pros are still a couple weeks out.

00:02:26 ◼   ► For a company run by the operations guy,

00:02:28 ◼   ► Apple sure has a hard time getting stuff

00:02:30 ◼   ► out the door on time these days, right?

00:02:33 ◼   ► And it's not like they are,

00:02:36 ◼   ► I mean the displays maybe are different,

00:02:38 ◼   ► LG is maybe manufacturing them,

00:02:40 ◼   ► I don't really know those details,

00:02:41 ◼   ► but they're not selling the Apple Watch

00:02:44 ◼   ► in the quantities they are the iPhone, right?

00:02:47 ◼   ► It's not, this is very frustrating

00:02:50 ◼   ► as someone who wants to spend money sometimes

00:02:53 ◼   ► that you have to wait.

00:02:54 ◼   ► And it's a thing that Apple used to be better at,

00:02:57 ◼   ► and it seems like as they've gotten bigger,

00:02:59 ◼   ► they have a hard time getting that ramp scaled up.

00:03:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I've been thinking about this recently.

00:03:05 ◼   ► And this obviously isn't the case, but it's like,

00:03:08 ◼   ► is it Jeff Williams, the operations guy now?

00:03:13 ◼   ► - Yes. - I think so, yeah.

00:03:14 ◼   ► - Like, is it just the case that he's just not as good

00:03:17 ◼   ► as Tim, but then I think to myself, like, it's not like,

00:03:20 ◼   ► I can't imagine Tim Cook was actually, you know,

00:03:22 ◼   ► making calls to the factories, right, to arrange this stuff. But you assume that, you know, he

00:03:28 ◼   ► probably had a really big hand in it. And I'm just, I'm kind of, I'm just a little bit confused by

00:03:35 ◼   ► it. It does seem really strange, right, because this seems like a money problem, you know, like

00:03:39 ◼   ► a problem you solve with money. And again, they have all of that. It's just very strange to me. I

00:03:46 ◼   ► I can't kind of work out why they are having these problems

00:03:51 ◼   ► with so many lines.

00:03:52 ◼   ► I mean the LG thing, that's not onto them, right?

00:03:54 ◼   ► That's up to LG.

00:03:55 ◼   ► But you know, you mentioned AirPods is a great thing

00:03:59 ◼   ► that you know, the iPhones continue to have problems

00:04:01 ◼   ► especially when they use new materials.

00:04:04 ◼   ► The watches, they're out, but they're, you know,

00:04:06 ◼   ► nobody can buy them.

00:04:07 ◼   ► It's weird.

00:04:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's just, it's just sort of frustrating I think.

00:04:13 ◼   ► - And also, you know, if the rumors are to be believed,

00:04:15 ◼   ► are Macs that should be out now as well but they're not. Right. So yeah, so something

00:04:20 ◼   ► that just kind of sprang to mind and looking at these prices like there's a lot of stuff

00:04:24 ◼   ► um it's late these days. Myke you have some thoughts on dongles it seems like. I think

00:04:31 ◼   ► that Apple's arrangement of dongles that they have like the amount that you can buy are

00:04:36 ◼   ► mainly dumb. Like if I want to get a USB-A and also have power I have to also get like

00:04:44 ◼   ► a display connector as well. Those options just don't feel good to me. I don't understand

00:04:49 ◼   ► why Apple doesn't sell a dongle that has two USB-A ports on it and a USB-C port on it for

00:04:54 ◼   ► pass-through power. Doesn't that just seem like the dongle that everybody would want?

00:05:00 ◼   ► How many people need a display thing? I know lots of people do and that's fine, but all

00:05:06 ◼   ► we're looking to do is just plug in our old peripherals, right? It just seems strange

00:05:09 ◼   ► to me. So I went on Amazon and I found an Anker thing for my new MacBook which I'll

00:05:16 ◼   ► talk about later which has three regular USB 3.0 ports like the A connector, the standard

00:05:21 ◼   ► connector and USB C port for power and it's great and in my mind that thing is just going

00:05:27 ◼   ► to live on the end of the charging cable and it will just be there forever and then I will

00:05:32 ◼   ► just plug it in and then I have all the USB ports that I need. And it just really surprises

00:05:37 ◼   ► me that Apple don't make a dongle like this. It's just strange to me that the only way

00:05:41 ◼   ► you can get a regular USB port is to also couple it with some kind of display port,

00:05:46 ◼   ► whatever it be. I think you do like a VGA one and they do like a HDMI one. They just

00:05:50 ◼   ► seem like really strange configurations of things to me when most people probably don't

00:05:55 ◼   ► need that one all the time.

00:05:58 ◼   ► And they also lack some, what I would think are pretty common ones. So I don't remember

00:06:04 ◼   ► specific ones I ordered but I think there's like the Ethernet one they don't

00:06:09 ◼   ► make but Belkin does and you know they're relying on their parties to make

00:06:12 ◼   ► some of them at least the ones that they sell themselves of course you can go on

00:06:16 ◼   ► Amazon there are you know there are stories out there there's some problems

00:06:21 ◼   ► with some like cheap USB C stuff out there and the so you kind of got to

00:06:29 ◼   ► watch out for like getting like quality stuff and especially with the cables

00:06:33 ◼   ► Yeah, I went with Anker. It wasn't the cheapest on Amazon, but I went with them because I have other products by them

00:06:39 ◼   ► You know, so and they've been fine. So I'm just gonna hope that they do a good job

00:06:43 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I think so. So I think you're probably safe. But if you're buying stuff, that's not like first-party

00:06:49 ◼   ► I think it's just worth doing a little homework

00:06:51 ◼   ► So I also bought a dongle myself for the iPhone 7

00:06:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I bought the Belkin Rockstar

00:07:02 ◼   ► Yeah, I know. I think it's the only dongle that allows you to charge and listen on the iPhone 7 by providing two lightning ports at the same time.

00:07:16 ◼   ► Apple themselves don't make this kind of dongle and I think it's the only one of its kind on the Apple online store.

00:07:22 ◼   ► So I bought it and it told me, well, you gotta wait two to three weeks, two days ago, and then the dongle came today.

00:07:28 ◼   ► So that was a nice surprise.

00:07:30 ◼   ► And it's frankly, I mean it gets the job done for sure, but it's quite bulky in the sense that

00:07:36 ◼   ► the cable is a little bit thicker and stronger than the

00:07:41 ◼   ► headphone jack adapter that Apple makes, so that's nice, but the port at the bottom

00:07:47 ◼   ► it's probably thicker than the old, so the thing that doubles, the lightning ports,

00:07:53 ◼   ► it's thicker and I think also taller than the old 30-pin connector,

00:07:58 ◼   ► so it does add a ton of bulk to the iPhone 7.

00:08:01 ◼   ► And once you connect that dongle and then all the headphones with the headphone jack adapter,

00:08:09 ◼   ► the whole setup becomes kind of ridiculous because you have like this 20cm buffer

00:08:14 ◼   ► between the iPhone and the actual headphone jack.

00:08:17 ◼   ► But sure, it gets the job done, you know, so I'm probably gonna leave this dongle attached

00:08:22 ◼   ► to my B&O H6 headphones, which are the most comfortable ones of the wired headphones I have.

00:08:31 ◼   ► I'm probably gonna leave it attached to the headphone jack adapter and to the headphones and carry it with me.

00:08:38 ◼   ► I'm just surprised that Apple doesn't make anything like this because

00:08:41 ◼   ► it is going to be a problem for some people that want to charge and listen at the same time.

00:08:45 ◼   ► I'm not gonna say this should be included in the box.

00:08:48 ◼   ► I feel like including the basic headphone jack adapter in the box is the right choice

00:08:53 ◼   ► But at least Apple should make an option, you know

00:08:55 ◼   ► Because I paid 40 euros for this and I feel like Apple should make their own probably cheaper even 19

00:09:01 ◼   ► 20 euro option. So is the only way currently to

00:09:05 ◼   ► Listen to audio and charge at the same time

00:09:09 ◼   ► I think so. Is through this thing, but then you still need the headphone to lightning dongle as well

00:09:15 ◼   ► So you're double dongling just to get the...

00:09:18 ◼   ► It's really awkward man.

00:09:20 ◼   ► Like I do not, again, you guys covered it so well last week

00:09:25 ◼   ► and I'm mostly in agreement, right,

00:09:27 ◼   ► that this is the march of progress,

00:09:28 ◼   ► like we've got to do these things,

00:09:29 ◼   ► we have to go through these short term pain things,

00:09:32 ◼   ► but I'm really not enjoying like just the amount of dongles

00:09:35 ◼   ► that are in my life right now

00:09:36 ◼   ► and will need to be in my life right now

00:09:38 ◼   ► and/or the extra purchases that I'm having to make

00:09:43 ◼   ► to reduce that annoyance.

00:09:45 ◼   ► It's an uncomfortable time to be in. It is. Especially when there are so many

00:09:51 ◼   ► products now, right, that Apple make that we buy, as well as like we also get like

00:09:55 ◼   ► watches now as well from them, as well as the phones and the iPads and the Macs.

00:09:59 ◼   ► It's just it's a lot of stuff going on. It's uncomfortable.

00:10:04 ◼   ► And it's confusing in places. Like we have a link in the show notes to Apple's

00:10:08 ◼   ► support document about the Thunderbolt 3 to Thunderbolt 2 adapter, which can do

00:10:14 ◼   ► almost everything the old Thunderbolt port can do except drive display port

00:10:21 ◼   ► stuff so it's like if you have a mini display port to a driven screen you

00:10:30 ◼   ► can't use the dongle that has the same port on the end of it like it's just

00:10:35 ◼   ► there's lots of these little edge cases you know if you have the MacBook Pro you

00:10:39 ◼   ► You have Thunderbolt 3 and USB-C together,

00:10:43 ◼   ► but the MacBook can only use USB-C stuff

00:10:46 ◼   ► because it doesn't have the Thunderbolt chipset

00:10:49 ◼   ► even though the ports look the same.

00:10:51 ◼   ► And I just don't know how a normal Mac user

00:10:54 ◼   ► just goes and updates their computer

00:10:56 ◼   ► every four or five years and they get a new one

00:10:59 ◼   ► and they don't know about this stuff.

00:11:01 ◼   ► They don't listen to our shows.

00:11:02 ◼   ► They don't read our websites.

00:11:04 ◼   ► This has got to be confusing, right?

00:11:06 ◼   ► That the ports that look the same do different things.

00:11:09 ◼   ► I get I'm like oh hi it's a mess like it's it's and it is a some of this is

00:11:19 ◼   ► transitional but if the MacBook always has USB C and never Thunderbolt which is

00:11:26 ◼   ► probably I think will be the case because that chipset doesn't support

00:11:29 ◼   ► Thunderbolt from Intel then there's always gonna be that divide of like in

00:11:34 ◼   ► my household I've got the MacBook Pro my wife has the MacBook and she can't just

00:11:39 ◼   ► like pick up something off my desk and plug it into a computer unless it is USB-C and

00:11:44 ◼   ► doesn't require the Thunderbolt to be on the same port. It's just really messy and confusing

00:11:51 ◼   ► and I wish that the future would just hurry up and get here already.

00:11:58 ◼   ► Steven do you think that the Mac Pro is dead like me when I'm away?

00:12:03 ◼   ► No.

00:12:04 ◼   ► No?

00:12:05 ◼   ► No, so let's start with this a little bit.

00:12:07 ◼   ► So the, in the wake of the Mac event,

00:12:10 ◼   ► obviously there's lots of criticism about the new Mac Pro,

00:12:15 ◼   ► I think we addressed most of that last week,

00:12:17 ◼   ► but it's also been this thread of conversation

00:12:19 ◼   ► about the Mac Pro, that shiny, black, trash can desktop.

00:12:24 ◼   ► Apple shipped it three years ago,

00:12:26 ◼   ► and hasn't touched it since.

00:12:30 ◼   ► And Marco Arment wrote a really good post about it.

00:12:35 ◼   ► I disagree with his idea that it's never going to be updated again.

00:12:40 ◼   ► I think Jason covered that really nicely.

00:12:44 ◼   ► But he does make a good case that there are things that the Mac Pro does that even a high-end

00:12:51 ◼   ► iMac can't do.

00:12:53 ◼   ► And he lists all those things, you can go read the post.

00:12:56 ◼   ► But I think the Mac Pro does slot into the lineup

00:13:00 ◼   ► and it serves a segment of Apple's user base

00:13:06 ◼   ► that is an important segment.

00:13:07 ◼   ► And quite honestly, most of the time,

00:13:10 ◼   ► people who spend that kind of money on a desktop

00:13:14 ◼   ► are Apple's from Apple's, some of the Mac's biggest fans.

00:13:18 ◼   ► And I think it's time that Apple come out

00:13:21 ◼   ► and say something about this computer.

00:13:25 ◼   ► If it's dead, then why is it still for sale?

00:13:28 ◼   ► If there's not a new one coming, then just end it.

00:13:32 ◼   ► If there is a new one coming, say with Skylake E, which will be spring-ish, early summer

00:13:39 ◼   ► next year hopefully.

00:13:41 ◼   ► If that is the case, I think it's time for Apple to make a statement about that.

00:13:46 ◼   ► They did this in 2012.

00:13:47 ◼   ► Remember, this is not a new frustration.

00:13:52 ◼   ► In 2012 they revved the Mac Pro but just barely and they had the same case so they just put

00:13:59 ◼   ► slightly better chips in it and it was a long time between meaningful updates when it comes

00:14:04 ◼   ► to performance.

00:14:06 ◼   ► And someone emailed Tim Cook and said, "Hey look what's going on?"

00:14:09 ◼   ► And he responded that we're working on something for next year that Pro Mac users are going

00:14:14 ◼   ► to be really happy about.

00:14:15 ◼   ► And of course that took the form of the Trashcan Mac Pro that shipped at the end of the year.

00:14:21 ◼   ► At WDC there was the very famous Phil Schiller quote about not being able to innovate anymore.

00:14:28 ◼   ► And that probably hurt sales of that machine, but at this point who cares?

00:14:35 ◼   ► Like they can't be selling many of them.

00:14:37 ◼   ► I feel sorry for anyone who has to buy one or who buys one who doesn't know that it's,

00:14:43 ◼   ► you know, I think the people who buy Mac Pros all know that it's outdated, but if anyone

00:14:48 ◼   ► just walks in and buys one, it's pretty sad.

00:14:50 ◼   ► Straight up shouldn't be available to sale right now like through regular channels

00:14:54 ◼   ► You should have to really kind of hunt through Apple's website to be able to get this thing

00:14:58 ◼   ► Like I saw somebody tweeting the other day that on the product page

00:15:02 ◼   ► They talk about aperture speeds like speeds to run the aperture out. Oh, yeah, which was discontinued like two years ago

00:15:08 ◼   ► Mm-hmm, and they have all their footnotes when performance testing mentioned

00:15:14 ◼   ► Mac OS 10 10.9

00:15:17 ◼   ► And you walk to an Apple store

00:15:19 ◼   ► you walk into an Apple store there's usually just one and it's plugged into

00:15:24 ◼   ► the discontinued Thunderbolt display. Everything about this is sad.

00:15:29 ◼   ► It's the museum that they put in every store now.

00:15:31 ◼   ► I guess. But I think it's time for Apple to say look we're working on

00:15:36 ◼   ► something new and it'll be out next year and so hang on I think that should come

00:15:42 ◼   ► with a price cut. If they don't do that I mean I'll be surprised if they do I

00:15:46 ◼   ► I fully expect Apple to remain silent.

00:15:48 ◼   ► That's their,

00:15:49 ◼   ► that's their, you know, their game plan.

00:15:54 ◼   ► Like that's their, what they do.

00:15:55 ◼   ► - The modus operandi.

00:15:56 ◼   ► - Thank you, that's what I was looking for.

00:15:58 ◼   ► But I think they've gotta give something

00:16:02 ◼   ► to these pro users saying,

00:16:03 ◼   ► "Hey look, don't freak out, it is coming."

00:16:05 ◼   ► And if it's not, if the Mac Pro is dead,

00:16:08 ◼   ► then just take it down.

00:16:09 ◼   ► Now why is it still for sale?

00:16:11 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:16:11 ◼   ► - And let's just move on.

00:16:15 ◼   ► all move on with our lives, right? I mean it should be nice to get some kind of pro

00:16:19 ◼   ► event next spring where Apple talks about the Mac Pro and the iPad Pro, so the two sides

00:16:24 ◼   ► of pro Apple users. That would be cool. Yeah. I like that. It's sad, right? Because it just

00:16:37 ◼   ► feels, it feels kind of wrong for them to continue selling this computer. This Mac should

00:16:44 ◼   ► just not be on sale. Like it just shouldn't be on sale. It is irresponsible for people

00:16:50 ◼   ► to buy this computer. Like for Apple to be selling it. Because it is so old at this point

00:16:57 ◼   ► and as I said, the things that they focus on, there's use that you can get out of it

00:17:02 ◼   ► if you own it, right? I'm sure. But to still be selling it at the same price that you sold

00:17:07 ◼   ► it years ago, I don't think that it's acceptable at this point. I think they need to do something

00:17:12 ◼   ► about it and maybe they don't want to cut the price right because if they cut

00:17:16 ◼   ► the price now then it's gonna be more difficult to put the price up again but

00:17:20 ◼   ► like I just feel like how many of these are you selling just stop it just stop

00:17:24 ◼   ► selling it just stop I totally agree it I'm not in the market for a Mac Pro I

00:17:32 ◼   ► mean the iMac and the MacBook Pro meet my needs with what I do but I at least

00:17:38 ◼   ► want to know the options there and for people who do need it you know they're

00:17:42 ◼   ► really strained it. There are a bunch of people using these things and they're

00:17:45 ◼   ► aging and before too long the first ones that went out the door are gonna be out

00:17:50 ◼   ► of AppleCare. Like that's not a great place to be in. Like what if what if

00:17:56 ◼   ► yours has some catastrophic failure? It's out of warranty. Like do you replace it

00:18:01 ◼   ► with the same computer three years later? Like there's nothing good about this

00:18:04 ◼   ► situation and that they they messed up by skipping the generation. They got kind

00:18:10 ◼   ► of messed over by Intel. That's all in the past and now it's about how Apple handles

00:18:14 ◼   ► it moving forward and so far they have not done a good job at managing the situation.

00:18:19 ◼   ► And I feel like that there's got to be enough hubbub in the next couple of weeks that a

00:18:24 ◼   ► statement should be made. You know, they felt the desire and they felt the real pressing

00:18:28 ◼   ► need to cut dongle prices because people were upset. Like, I think it's time that they actually

00:18:34 ◼   ► do something. Just to give some kind of lifeline, some kind of smoke signal to people, I think

00:18:39 ◼   ► that's really important right now.

00:18:41 ◼   ► - Agreed.

00:18:42 ◼   ► So up next, it's not really follow up,

00:18:45 ◼   ► it's something that was just sort of weird

00:18:46 ◼   ► we wanted to point people to.

00:18:48 ◼   ► - It's just terrifying, it's just terrible.

00:18:50 ◼   ► This is terrible.

00:18:51 ◼   ► - So people may be familiar with the singing fish thing

00:18:55 ◼   ► that you can buy at a drugstore and you walk by it

00:18:58 ◼   ► or hit a button and it sings and it's super creepy.

00:19:00 ◼   ► - Big mouth Billy Bass.

00:19:02 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Someone hooked an Alexa up to it.

00:19:04 ◼   ► So you speak to the echo and the fish answers you and it's the most terrifying thing you've

00:19:13 ◼   ► ever seen.

00:19:14 ◼   ► I like that the mouth doesn't really move correctly to the audio.

00:19:19 ◼   ► That's my favorite thing.

00:19:20 ◼   ► It makes it worse.

00:19:21 ◼   ► So that the mouth is just kind of like just flapping around and sounds are coming out.

00:19:25 ◼   ► It's not a good look.

00:19:27 ◼   ► Brian Cain is a madman.

00:19:30 ◼   ► of like mostly like undead zombie echo fish. Yep it's got that kind of just dead look in

00:19:38 ◼   ► its eyes that thing is ready to automate your entire life and there's nothing you can do

00:19:44 ◼   ► about it. Lastly we wanted to point people to a new show on Real AFM named Mixed Feelings.

00:19:50 ◼   ► It debuted last week. It is a new weekly show about news and politics and pop culture stuff.

00:19:59 ◼   ► It is a big break from our sort of normal topic area on Relay and that's really exciting.

00:20:07 ◼   ► And it is hosted by two college women, Quinn Rose and Jillian Parker.

00:20:13 ◼   ► And their point of view is very different, I think, from most of us on Relay and I think

00:20:20 ◼   ► that is great.

00:20:22 ◼   ► And I've really enjoyed the show.

00:20:24 ◼   ► They had a demo that went out to members a couple weeks ago.

00:20:27 ◼   ► episode one went up last week and it is definitely worth going to check out so

00:20:31 ◼   ► we'll have some some links in the show notes to that show mixed feelings what I

00:20:36 ◼   ► like about the show is not only do I learn about things from another

00:20:39 ◼   ► perspective I learn about things that I just flat-out didn't know about so it's

00:20:45 ◼   ► it's a really great show as Steven said with a different perspective and I think

00:20:48 ◼   ► it's well worth checking out so go to relay.fm/mixedfeelings and you can

00:20:53 ◼   ► Download episode 1 and there'll be another episode this week. It's a weekly show. Gotcha connect.

00:20:57 ◼   ► This week's episode of connected is brought to you by Gemini 2 from MacPaw.

00:21:04 ◼   ► MacPaw and their smart duplicate cleaner for Mac Gemini 2. This is the newest version of the well-known application that was launched in

00:21:12 ◼   ► 2016 this brand new version 2.

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00:21:41 ◼   ► It's on external drives and then just on all the folders on your hard drive. This isn't just like a file comparison thing

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00:21:50 ◼   ► going into like your iTunes library and your photos library. That's super super useful.

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00:22:00 ◼   ► That's M-A-C-P-A-W.com/connected

00:22:03 ◼   ► And because you're a listener of this show, you can get 20% off by using the coupon code "Connected"

00:22:09 ◼   ► The offer is valid through to November 20th of this year.

00:22:12 ◼   ► I think in this world of SSDs and smaller SSDs and especially for me moving from a MacBook Pro to a MacBook

00:22:19 ◼   ► finding duplicate files has been a very important thing for me

00:22:22 ◼   ► as I try and really shrink down what's on my hard drive and Gemini 2 is a fantastic way to do that

00:22:27 ◼   ► thank you so much to MacPaw for their support of this show

00:22:30 ◼   ► and Relay FM

00:22:34 ◼   ► alright so I will talk about my Macbook so

00:22:37 ◼   ► I mentioned this last week right that I was buying a Macbook that was my decision

00:22:41 ◼   ► and I was very proud of myself that I bought from a department store

00:22:44 ◼   ► it was two weeks ago I spoke about this, I bought from a department store instead of Apple

00:22:48 ◼   ► because I got the price cut down. However there were some some snags in this. The department

00:22:54 ◼   ► store John Lewis did not deliver in time for reasons unknown I paid for next day delivery.

00:23:00 ◼   ► They couldn't fulfill it and the MacBook actually arrived on the afternoon of the morning I'd

00:23:07 ◼   ► already left for Ireland. So that was no good. So I then spent a couple of days knowing that

00:23:13 ◼   ► MacBook was at home and thinking that I was just going to send it back because I didn't

00:23:17 ◼   ► have any travel. So this device for me is purely because I sometimes need a Mac when

00:23:22 ◼   ► I travel and I was looking for the thinnest and lightest thing so it takes up the least

00:23:27 ◼   ► amount of space in my bag and I don't feel it like it's just easy. Then I always have

00:23:32 ◼   ► the Mac that I need to run the applications that I need to publish videos, to publish

00:23:36 ◼   ► audio, to edit, to you know whatever it is that I need that some because of some of the

00:23:40 ◼   ► pro applications that I use that are not available on the iPad I prefer to just have the Mac

00:23:45 ◼   ► there in case I desperately need it. So it didn't arrive in time and I was thinking like

00:23:50 ◼   ► is it worth keeping it and I decided to myself that I was just going to send it back because

00:23:53 ◼   ► I don't have any overseas travel plan for the rest of the year. Then we were completing

00:23:59 ◼   ► on our house this week, which is amazing, I'm so happy and I realised that I'm probably

00:24:06 ◼   ► going to be spending a lot of time over the next month or two going backwards and forwards

00:24:11 ◼   ► from home to the new place for different trades people to come, for different engineers and

00:24:15 ◼   ► all that sort of stuff. And looking at just some of the appointments we have booked in

00:24:19 ◼   ► right now, I'm going to need to be recording from the new place. So I figured it's a lot

00:24:23 ◼   ► of back and forth. That's the reason that I would want the MacBook. So I decided to

00:24:28 ◼   ► keep it. Plus because if I buy it in two months time, I'm going to be paying more again because

00:24:35 ◼   ► the prices have all gone up now because everybody's followed Apple's lead. So that's why I'm going

00:24:40 ◼   ► to keep it for now. I'm going to keep this thing. I've got it all set up. A lovely gold

00:24:45 ◼   ► MacBook. And so it's there for when I'm going to be moving backwards and forwards and now

00:24:49 ◼   ► I have this little, the last piece of a portable recording studio.

00:24:53 ◼   ► So I got a couple of questions for you. The MacBook is obviously less of a machine than

00:25:04 ◼   ► the new MacBook Pros and it is smaller and lighter. Is that the key metric here?

00:25:11 ◼   ► Because when you and I were speaking I was trying to push you

00:25:15 ◼   ► into the MacBook Pro I just bought without the touch bar. Yep. Because it is

00:25:19 ◼   ► thin and light, the battery life is really good, but it is noticeably faster than

00:25:28 ◼   ► this machine. So I'm curious about what trade-offs like what was the most

00:25:31 ◼   ► important thing for you in that hierarchy? I am optimizing for portability.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Like that is the 100% like that is the number one point is more than anything

00:25:43 ◼   ► else this thing is just to be portable that that's what I'm going for and I've

00:25:48 ◼   ► played with the the new MacBook the escape as Marco calls it which I really

00:25:53 ◼   ► like that name Jason Snow had one and I picked it up and it was too heavy like

00:25:57 ◼   ► it's heavier than I want and as soon as I took the MacBook out of the box I was

00:26:01 ◼   ► was completely sold like that is the computer that I want for this purpose. Now I may get

00:26:08 ◼   ► very angry about how slow this thing is compared to my iMac, I'm sure I will, but the main

00:26:14 ◼   ► reason that I'm going for this is like this is purely a travel machine, it's the only

00:26:19 ◼   ► time I will ever use it is when I need something that's as small as possible and so that's

00:26:26 ◼   ► why I think this is the right one for me. It's the same reason that when I travel I

00:26:30 ◼   ► I take my 9.7 inch iPhone Pro and look at 12.9.

00:26:33 ◼   ► Like I'm optimizing for maximum portability

00:26:36 ◼   ► and that is 100% what I get out of the MacBook.

00:26:40 ◼   ► Like if I wanted the power of the MacBook escape,

00:26:43 ◼   ► I would just keep my MacBook Pro

00:26:45 ◼   ► because then I'm going for power.

00:26:47 ◼   ► If I'm going for power,

00:26:48 ◼   ► that thing is more than enough for what I need, right?

00:26:51 ◼   ► But it's, for me, it's too heavy and it's too thick.

00:26:55 ◼   ► Like it made packing my carry-on more difficult,

00:27:00 ◼   ► like everything about that on the last trip

00:27:04 ◼   ► was just annoying.

00:27:05 ◼   ► It was just annoying.

00:27:06 ◼   ► The battery needs to be charged way more.

00:27:08 ◼   ► It was just a frustrating experience

00:27:10 ◼   ► to be lugging around this big computer.

00:27:12 ◼   ► So I feel happy in my choice

00:27:17 ◼   ► and that the MacBook really does feel

00:27:19 ◼   ► like the right solution for what I'm trying to solve.

00:27:23 ◼   ► Like the MacBook escape is a way more powerful machine.

00:27:26 ◼   ► It's thinner and lighter, but it's still too much.

00:27:31 ◼   ► For me, it's just still too much.

00:27:32 ◼   ► - I think it's time we talk Federico

00:27:33 ◼   ► into one of these machines.

00:27:35 ◼   ► I think we've made our cases.

00:27:37 ◼   ► - You know what I've been doing this past week?

00:27:39 ◼   ► I needed to use a Mac and I just went ahead

00:27:42 ◼   ► and created a new user on Silvia's MacBook Pro.

00:27:45 ◼   ► And I just been using that instead.

00:27:49 ◼   ► Because she doesn't use her computer offer anymore.

00:27:51 ◼   ► She does a bunch of things on her iPad Pro.

00:27:55 ◼   ► And it's just easier, you know, we have a MacBook,

00:27:59 ◼   ► nobody's really using it.

00:28:01 ◼   ► And so, I mean, I'm considering using that MacBook Pro

00:28:05 ◼   ► to do the shows now, because whenever I do the shows,

00:28:08 ◼   ► she's usually not at home, so the computer is unused.

00:28:11 ◼   ► And I got a user for myself in there

00:28:13 ◼   ► with a bunch of my things.

00:28:15 ◼   ► So maybe the solution is not to get a new MacBook,

00:28:18 ◼   ► but it's actually to have one MacBook Pro in our house

00:28:22 ◼   ► and just share the computer.

00:28:24 ◼   ► you're like a macbook hobo

00:28:27 ◼   ► if you like stickers

00:28:29 ◼   ► uh... by i have a macbook pro that's unused

00:28:33 ◼   ► you can have it! I'm not looking for charity I'm just saying

00:28:38 ◼   ► I have this computer now. Thank you. I don't know what to do with this by the way

00:28:43 ◼   ► I'd consider, I mean, because now I just have this big computer right that I don't need

00:28:48 ◼   ► now I'd considered, I can't sell this thing, nobody

00:28:52 ◼   ► Nobody will want to buy this, right?

00:28:54 ◼   ► Because it's just completely covered in stickers.

00:28:57 ◼   ► I considered auctioning it for charity.

00:28:59 ◼   ► - You should do that.

00:29:01 ◼   ► - Do you think that people would be interested in this?

00:29:04 ◼   ► Like listeners of the show,

00:29:06 ◼   ► if this is something you would potentially be interested in,

00:29:10 ◼   ► that we would auction off the MacBook

00:29:13 ◼   ► with the proceeds going to St. Jude,

00:29:16 ◼   ► is that something that people would care about?

00:29:19 ◼   ► Because I don't want this thing.

00:29:21 ◼   ► I'm moving house and I don't want to take it.

00:29:24 ◼   ► I don't care about selling it for myself

00:29:27 ◼   ► because I wouldn't be able to charge

00:29:29 ◼   ► a good amount of money on it

00:29:31 ◼   ► because the thing is completely defaced.

00:29:33 ◼   ► So I'm thinking that maybe to auction it off.

00:29:37 ◼   ► If this is something that we get a response from

00:29:41 ◼   ► that people seem like they're happy to do,

00:29:44 ◼   ► then we'll go for it.

00:29:46 ◼   ► Jason Stone in the chat room is suggesting

00:29:47 ◼   ► auction or raffle.

00:29:48 ◼   ► I don't know what's the best one to do there.

00:29:50 ◼   ► would have to think about that but yeah I want to get rid of that. Also if you

00:29:54 ◼   ► like Bonanza the show that I do with my Alexander I also have the old keyboard

00:29:59 ◼   ► that I used to use for the to trigger the sound effects it's got my handwriting

00:30:03 ◼   ► all over it up maybe I'll do that one too. I need to get rid of stuff and I

00:30:07 ◼   ► figure auctions sounds like a good like a good idea so if that's something that

00:30:11 ◼   ► people like the sound of I'll look into how you do that kind of thing because I

00:30:14 ◼   ► have no idea. Steven maybe you can help me. Okay we'll figure something out.

00:30:19 ◼   ► I like the idea there.

00:30:20 ◼   ► Awesome, because this thing, I got enough to do of it. I don't want to do of it. I don't

00:30:25 ◼   ► want it and I definitely can't sell it. I bought something else. I bought the Beats

00:30:31 ◼   ► Solo 3 headphones.

00:30:33 ◼   ► Yay, nice.

00:30:34 ◼   ► Purely on your recommendation Federico.

00:30:36 ◼   ► Oh god, I feel responsible now. What have I done?

00:30:40 ◼   ► And also because I was traveling, right, so I was getting on a plane and I needed to listen

00:30:46 ◼   ► to stuff and to charge. This is just a thing that happens to me when I travel. So I knew

00:30:51 ◼   ► I needed to give in to Bluetooth overlords and I decided I would buy them in the airport

00:30:55 ◼   ► because I can get them without the VAT on them. The pairing is magical as Federico described

00:31:00 ◼   ► and then sharing with the iCloud is great because then I just picked up my iPad when

00:31:04 ◼   ► I was at the hotel and I was able to just choose them which is great. I like how they

00:31:07 ◼   ► fold up into the little case. They fold up to be super small and I also like that you

00:31:13 ◼   ► You get all of the cables as well in case you need them.

00:31:16 ◼   ► To plug it in as if you could just, I think it's a headphone cable, right?

00:31:19 ◼   ► You could just plug it into something.

00:31:20 ◼   ► I like that it comes with that so if the battery dies on you and you have the case with you,

00:31:25 ◼   ► you have another option.

00:31:26 ◼   ► I think that's kind of cool.

00:31:29 ◼   ► I don't know if you mentioned this Federico, I don't remember, but it has on-ear controls

00:31:33 ◼   ► which is great for play/pause and volume up and down, for skipping left and right.

00:31:37 ◼   ► That is a must have for me with headphones like that.

00:31:42 ◼   ► got to have some kind of control to them so I think that's awesome like that you

00:31:46 ◼   ► know that's way more than we're gonna get from from the AirPods. I found them

00:31:50 ◼   ► mostly comfortable I do prefer over the ear to on ear they're like the smaller

00:31:55 ◼   ► ones that go on air because I have a long periods of time on ear headphones

00:31:58 ◼   ► they hurt me because of my glasses yeah same yeah and so it kind of hurts the

00:32:04 ◼   ► back of my ear and they can be adjusted and it can be good but but that you know

00:32:09 ◼   ► Now this isn't anything with the Beats, this is all on-ear headphones, but I do prefer

00:32:13 ◼   ► over the ears personally.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Yeah, when I use the H6, the B&O, they're super comfortable, I don't even feel them

00:32:21 ◼   ► because they're over-ear.

00:32:22 ◼   ► Yep.

00:32:23 ◼   ► And I wish Beats had something like that, like the Beats sound, which I'm not ashamed

00:32:27 ◼   ► to say I like, but with the over-ear design of the H6.

00:32:30 ◼   ► Never gonna happen, but I can dream.

00:32:32 ◼   ► 40-hour battery life is bananas.

00:32:36 ◼   ► It's brilliant, right?

00:32:37 ◼   ► is such a great thing.

00:32:39 ◼   ► I mean, again, wherever I will have the problem

00:32:41 ◼   ► that I've mentioned in the past of like,

00:32:43 ◼   ► then I forget to charge them,

00:32:45 ◼   ► but because they come with that cable

00:32:47 ◼   ► and I have the dongle in my bag,

00:32:49 ◼   ► then I could just plug them in, right?

00:32:51 ◼   ► And it would be okay.

00:32:52 ◼   ► That is like a fail-safe solution.

00:32:54 ◼   ► And/or I've also got the charging cable

00:32:56 ◼   ► and I always have one of those battery packs with me.

00:32:58 ◼   ► I'll just plug it in.

00:32:59 ◼   ► And what is it, like 15 minutes for seven hours or something?

00:33:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, kind of something like that.

00:33:03 ◼   ► - It's like, you know, you're fine.

00:33:05 ◼   ► just plug it into my power for 15 minutes and I'm good to go again. Also they sound

00:33:10 ◼   ► way better than I expected. Like from using other Bluetooth headphones this is like something

00:33:16 ◼   ► else completely. They sound to me like to my ears like it didn't really sound any different

00:33:20 ◼   ► to when I used my ear pods. Like it was fine like it was great like I was listening to

00:33:25 ◼   ► podcasts it sounded crystal clear they sounded rich like I was surprised I didn't think that

00:33:30 ◼   ► that's the kind of sound quality that I was going to get because all of my previous Bluetooth

00:33:34 ◼   ► headphone experience has just been like it's not so different, you know that's kind of

00:33:38 ◼   ► how it sounds, not good but these things they're really good so I recommend them um especially

00:33:45 ◼   ► if you're in a situation like I guess I was when I'm traveling and I know I need bluetooth

00:33:52 ◼   ► because you know you gotta try and veer away from dongle town where you can and we have

00:33:57 ◼   ► no idea when the airpods are going to come out so these are good I mean I would still

00:34:01 ◼   ► use these because when I'm on planes I like to have something that's covering my ears

00:34:06 ◼   ► more just because it's better for the sound isolation because I can't use the noise cancelling

00:34:13 ◼   ► because it makes me feel like I'm sick which is terrible.

00:34:16 ◼   ► So these are a good travelling solution for me but I'm still interested in the AirPods

00:34:20 ◼   ► for kind of just day to day use.

00:34:23 ◼   ► I'm looking forward to them whenever they come out and it is confusing to me.

00:34:26 ◼   ► I can't work out why, what's wrong with the AirPods right?

00:34:31 ◼   ► in theory you'd think oh it's the new technology but that's in the Beats

00:34:35 ◼   ► headphones and they're fine. Yeah I think it's the new technology in that smaller

00:34:40 ◼   ► body you know or it could be the charging case we don't know. Maybe they're

00:34:44 ◼   ► just making sure that the batteries don't catch on fire because that'd be

00:34:47 ◼   ► real unfortunate on your ears right? Yeah that could be a little bit of an issue.

00:34:51 ◼   ► Yeah we don't want that you do not want a little bit of ear fire going on it's not good for

00:34:56 ◼   ► anybody but yeah I have to say I'm happy with these two little purchases

00:35:01 ◼   ► that I've made. I don't think I would recommend the MacBook for everybody. I

00:35:05 ◼   ► like the keyboard by the way I like the size of the keycaps that's what I really

00:35:09 ◼   ► like. The feeling of typing on it isn't amazing right I'm not the first

00:35:14 ◼   ► person to say that but the bigger keycaps I love that I think that's really

00:35:18 ◼   ► good. That's more comfortable for me as somebody who doesn't really know where

00:35:21 ◼   ► their hands are going when they're typing so that's a big thumbs up and I

00:35:26 ◼   ► like

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00:35:44 ◼   ► All the big companies that have been doing this

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00:35:50 ◼   ► Postini went away, McAfee and MX Logic, no longer.

00:35:54 ◼   ► And even Google have said that they would prefer it

00:35:57 ◼   ► if you would use a gateway service like mail routes,

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00:36:02 ◼   ► your Google Apps mail anymore.

00:36:04 ◼   ► This is a really difficult thing to get right.

00:36:07 ◼   ► So you need to be able to trust the company

00:36:11 ◼   ► that they're going to do it properly and also that they're going to stick around and they're

00:36:14 ◼   ► not going to be one of these fly by night companies that just pops off and they find

00:36:18 ◼   ► it too difficult. Do you know who can do all of that? You know who you can trust? You can

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00:37:37 ◼   ► Thank you so much to mailroute for their support

00:37:40 ◼   ► of this show and Relay FM.

00:37:42 ◼   ► All right, so there is a new notes app in town,

00:37:49 ◼   ► which is something I feel like we've not focused on

00:37:51 ◼   ► in a long time.

00:37:52 ◼   ► I think we've all been pretty happy with Apple Notes, right?

00:37:55 ◼   ► I think we've all been users of Apple Notes.

00:37:57 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah.

00:37:58 ◼   ► But a little while ago, I think we all kind of found out about this application.

00:38:03 ◼   ► I believe that we were all checking out the beta for it as well.

00:38:08 ◼   ► We've been testing this app now for a few weeks, and I have to say that I kind of like

00:38:12 ◼   ► it and it's bare notes.

00:38:14 ◼   ► B-E-A-R notes.

00:38:16 ◼   ► And Federico has come out of retirement to write a relatively chunky review.

00:38:22 ◼   ► I haven't seen you do one of these for a while.

00:38:24 ◼   ► What kind of retirement, Myke?

00:38:26 ◼   ► You haven't done a big app review in a long time.

00:38:29 ◼   ► There haven't been any good apps.

00:38:31 ◼   ► Oh!

00:38:32 ◼   ► No, I mean, there haven't been any, well, I think you mean any, that kind of productivity

00:38:40 ◼   ► app that I spend some time with.

00:38:42 ◼   ► You just start walking that statement back, buddy.

00:38:45 ◼   ► No, I was making a joke, but.

00:38:47 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:38:48 ◼   ► You know.

00:38:49 ◼   ► I know what you mean, though.

00:38:50 ◼   ► There haven't been any really large, like, brand new app introductions in a while.

00:38:55 ◼   ► Exactly, brand new indie app for productivity on the iPhone and the iPad.

00:39:00 ◼   ► We've all been using mostly the same things for the past year, I would say.

00:39:04 ◼   ► So, can you kind of give us the skinny on bare notes?

00:39:10 ◼   ► What is it and why is it compelling?

00:39:13 ◼   ► It's a note-taking app that mixes different elements of Markdown,

00:39:17 ◼   ► so you can type out notes and format them using plain text and Markdown.

00:39:22 ◼   ► And it combines some elements of Apple Notes, such as the ability in a note to go beyond text,

00:39:28 ◼   ► in the sense that within a note you can add images, you can add documents like PDFs.

00:39:34 ◼   ► It combines the best aspects of CloudKit.

00:39:38 ◼   ► So you only need to authenticate, actually you don't need to authenticate at all.

00:39:43 ◼   ► CloudKit uses your email account, your iCloud account.

00:39:47 ◼   ► It doesn't consume your iCloud space.

00:39:49 ◼   ► It's based on iCab authentication, but it doesn't use your storage.

00:39:54 ◼   ► So the syncing is the same of Apple Notes.

00:39:56 ◼   ► Super fast, reliable in my experience.

00:39:59 ◼   ► It combines some elements of task paper.

00:40:02 ◼   ► It can be used as a very lightweight task manager, because you can add checkboxes in Notes,

00:40:09 ◼   ► and you can see the progress of all of the different to-dos that you've added in a Note.

00:40:16 ◼   ► And then he has all these different little touches that are sort of like a mix of Apple Notes, Evernote, Taskpaper, a Text Editor.

00:40:25 ◼   ► There's a ton of export options. Whenever you create a note you can send it out as Markdown or PDF, HTML, Rich Text, even Word.

00:40:35 ◼   ► So it's this mix of Markdown and Apple Notes with a lot of power user features.

00:40:40 ◼   ► because unlike Apple Notes, which really kind of set a new standard for note-taking apps with iOS 9,

00:40:49 ◼   ► unlike Apple Notes, Bear has a lot of automation features through URL schemes for now,

00:40:55 ◼   ► and hopefully in the future there will be native workflow actions.

00:40:59 ◼   ► You can use all these different URL schemes to automate note-taking and search,

00:41:06 ◼   ► And it's also got tags. So unlike Apple Notes, which is based on folders, and the management of folders in Apple Notes on iOS is kind of clunky,

00:41:15 ◼   ► there's not a lot of flexibility, you can add tags to Notes in Bear. And with all of the versatility that entails, which include a note can have multiple tags,

00:41:26 ◼   ► or you can browse tags in a sidebar, you can filter by tag, you can search by tag.

00:41:32 ◼   ► So it's this mix of Apple Notes and Markdown with a little more flexibility, a little more automation,

00:41:39 ◼   ► very cool design, very fast sync and a different business model.

00:41:43 ◼   ► Because unlike the note-taking apps that we're used to, it's not free or paid upfront,

00:41:48 ◼   ► it uses the new App Store subscriptions for recurring revenue.

00:41:56 ◼   ► So you can sign up for pro features, right?

00:41:59 ◼   ► Not just for syncing, but it's kind of strange to understand it first.

00:42:04 ◼   ► So you can unlock sync with the subscription, otherwise you're just going to use Bear for free on one device

00:42:10 ◼   ► and you're not one sync across devices.

00:42:12 ◼   ► But if you buy the annual subscription, which is $15, you also unlock the themes and advanced export options forever.

00:42:24 ◼   ► So the annual subscription, besides recurring the next year, also acts as a one-time in-app purchase for some features.

00:42:35 ◼   ► Alright, so I have some thoughts and some questions for you, right?

00:42:40 ◼   ► Because I know you've taken a deeper dive into this than me.

00:42:42 ◼   ► So I just wanted to hit on the tags, as you mentioned, because what I really like about the tags

00:42:50 ◼   ► is that they don't, it's not like putting notes in folders where it kind of like sequesters the note

00:42:55 ◼   ► and then that's where it lives. I get to see all my notes in one list but then can open the sidebar

00:43:00 ◼   ► and tap on one of the tags to treat it like a folder basically. But from then I can also have

00:43:07 ◼   ► basically one note in a bunch of different folders. So something I've been using Bear for is to write

00:43:13 ◼   ► the scripts and the copy for our ads and it allows me to assign a tag for the company and also for

00:43:20 ◼   ► the time period in which the ad has been written, which is really great for me. I've been looking

00:43:25 ◼   ► for a new application to move to because the one that I was using to write this stuff because

00:43:31 ◼   ► I wasn't doing them in Apple Notes because I wanted the markdown stuff I'm concerned about, it's

00:43:35 ◼   ► longevity. So Bear is now what I'm using because it is really beautiful and it does a lot of things

00:43:44 ◼   ► in a way that I like. Now, I want to ask you a question Federico about the syncing stuff,

00:43:50 ◼   ► because there was some discussion about Bear when I was at Oul, because Oul is primarily attended

00:43:59 ◼   ► by indie Apple developers, and there seemed to be a lot of hush tones about the fact that you can't

00:44:07 ◼   ► or you shouldn't be able to charge for CloudKit syncing. How are they doing this?

00:44:13 ◼   ► I think, so in the Apple Developer Guidelines, the App Store Review Guidelines, there's a note about

00:44:20 ◼   ► developers not being able to charge for iCloud storage, iCloud sync, and I think by using

00:44:26 ◼   ► CloudKit it's not like Barry saying we're gonna put iCloud Drive access behind the paywall, so if

00:44:34 ◼   ► you want to export your notes and save them to iCloud Drive you're gonna pay us because we need

00:44:38 ◼   ► to unlock that feature. CloudKit uses your iCloud account for authentication

00:44:43 ◼   ► but it doesn't use your iCloud Drive space. It's a separate service for

00:44:48 ◼   ► developers, something like Pairs for example, which I don't think exists

00:44:52 ◼   ► anymore. So it's Apple's solution to the database in the cloud, storage

00:44:56 ◼   ► in the cloud, and I feel like developers are free to ask users to pay for that

00:45:02 ◼   ► feature because it's separate from iCloud Drive storage space and also

00:45:07 ◼   ► because CloudKit is free for developers with limits. So if you get a lot of users

00:45:11 ◼   ► and you need to store a lot of records, CloudKit has a pricing model

00:45:17 ◼   ► that developers need to account for. So by looking at that difference between

00:45:22 ◼   ► iCloud Drive and CloudKit and by considering the fact that Apple chose

00:45:26 ◼   ► Bear as the editor's choice on the Mac App Store and the iOS App Store, I think

00:45:31 ◼   ► they're okay. So I guess the difference is you're not double playing for

00:45:35 ◼   ► storage because you don't pay for this anyway, right? Like as a user, this doesn't go to

00:45:40 ◼   ► my iCloud storage. And I guess the way that Bear is doing it is like, you're not directly

00:45:46 ◼   ► paying for syncing, you're paying for pro features, which includes syncing. I assume

00:45:51 ◼   ► that there's a lot of this was from back and forth with Apple about how to get this right,

00:45:56 ◼   ► which I'm only going to assume happened, as you say, because they are an editor's choice.

00:46:00 ◼   ► I don't think that this could have...

00:46:02 ◼   ► Well, I mean...

00:46:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, you know how these things work, right? - We've been through this before, right?

00:46:05 ◼   ► I mean, you know, for all we know,

00:46:07 ◼   ► Abert gets pulled out of the App Store in 24 hours.

00:46:10 ◼   ► But it seems like everything's okay.

00:46:12 ◼   ► Yeah, it does seem that way,

00:46:14 ◼   ► especially because Apple likes to arrange these promotions way beforehand.

00:46:18 ◼   ► So I think everyone is in the know, and I think this is going to be okay.

00:46:23 ◼   ► Again, it's not like they're putting the iCloud Drive share sheet behind the subscription.

00:46:29 ◼   ► That's not the case. So I think they're gonna be fine.

00:46:32 ◼   ► Couple of other things that I like about Bear, I really like all the themes,

00:46:35 ◼   ► because you get to choose. I wish I could...

00:46:38 ◼   ► Well, yeah, you know, I like this sort of stuff.

00:46:40 ◼   ► I use the theme called "Panic" because it's a dark background

00:46:43 ◼   ► and it also has some splashes of color in it.

00:46:45 ◼   ► I wish I could create my own, though.

00:46:48 ◼   ► They have so many themes.

00:46:49 ◼   ► It seems kind of strange to me that I can't tweak them.

00:46:53 ◼   ► Yeah, I feel like it's gonna come in the future,

00:46:55 ◼   ► because I saw a few people requesting that on Twitter,

00:46:57 ◼   ► and they replied we're actually considering that feature so maybe...

00:47:01 ◼   ► It seems like a logical evolution because they have like nine different themes, right?

00:47:05 ◼   ► Like it's that you have so many at a certain point you may as well just let people go crazy

00:47:09 ◼   ► and make what they want.

00:47:10 ◼   ► The other thing that I really like, the share extension, it allows you to append or prepend

00:47:14 ◼   ► to a note.

00:47:15 ◼   ► I mean, with Apple's Notes app, all you can do is append to any note, which is amazing

00:47:21 ◼   ► and it completely changed the way that I work.

00:47:23 ◼   ► But there are times where I kind of arrange documents in interesting ways.

00:47:28 ◼   ► I have some stuff for this show where right at the very top I have future topic ideas

00:47:33 ◼   ► and then at the bottom of the note I put "follow up for the next week" and it would be really

00:47:38 ◼   ► cool if I could add things to the top or bottom of the note depending on what they are.

00:47:43 ◼   ► So this is actually an interesting thing for me to look at.

00:47:48 ◼   ► I'm not considering right now making,

00:47:51 ◼   ► like definitely making Bear my Notes app replacement,

00:47:55 ◼   ► but it has replaced my markdown text editor.

00:47:59 ◼   ► Bear is now my markdown text editor.

00:48:01 ◼   ► However, I'm gonna keep using it

00:48:04 ◼   ► and I'm gonna keep putting it through its paces,

00:48:06 ◼   ► but in theory, it should be able to do everything

00:48:09 ◼   ► I'm using Apple Notes for.

00:48:11 ◼   ► Like I can save PDFs in it for when I travel.

00:48:14 ◼   ► I'm able to use the share extension

00:48:16 ◼   ► and it does a good job of showing some, like,

00:48:20 ◼   ► does it do the, when it shows links, does it show images?

00:48:23 ◼   ► No, it doesn't, does it right now, it's just text?

00:48:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly, there's a bunch of things that I'm,

00:48:28 ◼   ► like you, I'm still not sure

00:48:30 ◼   ► if I'm gonna switch to bare full-time.

00:48:33 ◼   ► There's a bunch of issues,

00:48:35 ◼   ► like it doesn't have rich links like Apple Notes,

00:48:39 ◼   ► which I found really useful to preview a link

00:48:42 ◼   ► before opening it.

00:48:44 ◼   ► It also, unlike Apple Notes,

00:48:45 ◼   ► which of course is a first-party app on iOS, when you save things from the extension, from the bare extension,

00:48:52 ◼   ► and this happens to me all the time. For example, I save a link from the extension on my iPhone,

00:48:59 ◼   ► and then I save a PDF into the same note from the extension on my iPad.

00:49:06 ◼   ► And if you don't open the app after saving from the extension,

00:49:12 ◼   ► you just save and do something else. Then when you open the app again,

00:49:16 ◼   ► the app won't be able to reconcile changes from the extension on two different devices.

00:49:20 ◼   ► Ooh, that's no good. I didn't know that.

00:49:23 ◼   ► It will create... that's because you didn't read my review. And that it will create

00:49:27 ◼   ► and it will create a completed copy.

00:49:31 ◼   ► This is something that Apple Notes takes care of by doing, you know, merging and conflict resolution,

00:49:36 ◼   ► you know, by default you don't ever see, you know, requests for

00:49:42 ◼   ► solving a conflict in Apple Notes. The app takes care of that on its own.

00:49:46 ◼   ► And I brought this up with the developers and they say it's really hard

00:49:49 ◼   ► for a third-party app without the privileges of Apple Notes to do that

00:49:53 ◼   ► kind of background checking all the time whenever the extension saving and you

00:49:57 ◼   ► want to make a network call and say look we have new data from the extension

00:50:01 ◼   ► we gotta sync back to the cloud. It's really hard for a third-party app to do

00:50:04 ◼   ► that but I think they're working on conflict resolution and merging tool

00:50:09 ◼   ► that whenever it sees that there's a change from the extension on a device

00:50:12 ◼   ► where bear was not opened they're gonna try to not create a

00:50:16 ◼   ► completed copy. It's really tricky problem to solve unless Apple opens

00:50:21 ◼   ► up the background and the extension API is a little more. But that said, there's a

00:50:26 ◼   ► bunch of minor issues with text editing and selections but really

00:50:30 ◼   ► minor problems. I signed up for a month, I'm gonna probably renew for the next

00:50:36 ◼   ► month and I want to try for a couple of months and see how it goes.

00:50:41 ◼   ► I'm very content on continuing to use this application for the purpose that I outlined.

00:50:47 ◼   ► Which is writing out things.

00:50:49 ◼   ► The app is great on all platforms, the syncing is really good.

00:50:55 ◼   ► For the things that we spoke about, things that you've mentioned.

00:50:57 ◼   ► By the way, I didn't read the whole review but I read most of it.

00:51:00 ◼   ► I just want to let you know that.

00:51:01 ◼   ► I just didn't read that part.

00:51:03 ◼   ► I was going for the happy stuff, not the sad stuff.

00:51:04 ◼   ► I was picking out by headlines.

00:51:07 ◼   ► I don't read, man.

00:51:08 ◼   ► What do you want from me?

00:51:10 ◼   ► Anywho, I can't see it right now taking place of Notes

00:51:15 ◼   ► because the thing that I love most about Notes

00:51:20 ◼   ► is I never have to worry about what it's doing.

00:51:22 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:51:24 ◼   ► - Because even in the times where I'll say something

00:51:27 ◼   ► from my iPhone, then I'll say something from my iPad,

00:51:30 ◼   ► I know that the order might not be great,

00:51:32 ◼   ► but I know it's all gonna be in there.

00:51:34 ◼   ► Like, nothing gets lost.

00:51:37 ◼   ► And I don't want to have to start thinking about that.

00:51:39 ◼   ► I've had a thing recently with Air Mail, my email app,

00:51:42 ◼   ► which is frustrating me.

00:51:44 ◼   ► But sometimes it just doesn't send the email

00:51:45 ◼   ► that I thought it had sent, because it

00:51:47 ◼   ► crashes in the background.

00:51:49 ◼   ► And it saves it, but I don't know.

00:51:52 ◼   ► So I'm having this thing recently,

00:51:53 ◼   ► wherever I send an email that has an attachment on it,

00:51:56 ◼   ► I have to keep checking it until I see it shows up

00:51:59 ◼   ► in the sent email folder.

00:52:01 ◼   ► This is a thing that's starting to frustrate me.

00:52:03 ◼   ► but Airmail is so good in many of the ways

00:52:06 ◼   ► that I like to use it, I'm gonna keep using it,

00:52:07 ◼   ► but that is a frustration for me.

00:52:09 ◼   ► I don't want to have another app in my life

00:52:11 ◼   ► where I have this type of frustration.

00:52:13 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:52:14 ◼   ► - And the reason I switched to Airmail

00:52:17 ◼   ► is because no other mail client could give me what I needed.

00:52:20 ◼   ► I have no reason to leave Notes.

00:52:23 ◼   ► Notes gives me exactly what I need.

00:52:25 ◼   ► So I'm not willing to trade off the stability

00:52:29 ◼   ► that I have with Notes for a couple of extra features

00:52:31 ◼   ► with Bear if I then have to start worrying about whether all of my links are going to get saved.

00:52:37 ◼   ► That's exactly how I feel and the reason why I ended the review saying I want to subscribe for a couple of months

00:52:44 ◼   ► because there's a few nice things that I feel like could be useful, especially on the automation side

00:52:49 ◼   ► and the markdown aspect, it's really convenient for me. But I also want to see what the roadmap looks like.

00:52:55 ◼   ► Is it gonna be that kind of app, you know, made by an indie studio that only receives a couple of updates every year?

00:53:02 ◼   ► Or is this going to be an actively developed product which receives changes and fixes all the time?

00:53:07 ◼   ► And I know that I'm not expecting new features from Apple in Notes every few weeks,

00:53:14 ◼   ► but at least it's got those privileges that make it work reliably.

00:53:18 ◼   ► So it's like a scale and I'm weighing the different privileges and the different benefits that each app has.

00:53:24 ◼   ► It's gonna be power user features, but a little less reliability or not a lot of changes,

00:53:31 ◼   ► but a lot of stability always works, always does the right thing.

00:53:36 ◼   ► And so that's why I wrote, I need to wait, I need to see what it looks like two months

00:53:42 ◼   ► from now.

00:53:43 ◼   ► It's gonna be the same app, which is gonna make me think, well, maybe it's gonna be one

00:53:47 ◼   ► of those apps that only receives three updates every year or something else.

00:53:52 ◼   ► I don't know yet.

00:53:53 ◼   ► But as I said, for the purposes of which I'm using it right now,

00:53:57 ◼   ► I'm going to keep using it for that.

00:53:59 ◼   ► But I don't know if it's going to extend.

00:54:02 ◼   ► Steven, how much have you spent time with with Bare Notes?

00:54:06 ◼   ► Is it something that could fit into your workflows?

00:54:09 ◼   ► I do like that it does markdown.

00:54:11 ◼   ► And that's my biggest frustration with Apple Notes

00:54:14 ◼   ► is that you can write in markdown,

00:54:16 ◼   ► but if you want it to be skimmable,

00:54:18 ◼   ► got to use their like weird pseudo rich text stuff. So I did import a folder of

00:54:26 ◼   ► notes. Unlike you I do really like folders. I have never been a fan of

00:54:32 ◼   ► tagging in any system and the lack of folders in bare notes or that's a pretty

00:54:40 ◼   ► big deal for me. I got some real-time follow-up from Steve Dutton Smith on

00:54:47 ◼   ► Twitter, it shared a message about, I said, a couple of updates a year doesn't

00:54:55 ◼   ► count as actively developed. I should probably rephrase that and by that I

00:55:00 ◼   ► meant I feel like the way that we're getting things done on iOS and maybe

00:55:06 ◼   ► Myke can relate to this, is so constantly changing, so constantly in flux, whether

00:55:13 ◼   ► it's the new services that we try or new iOS features because it's obvious that

00:55:19 ◼   ► iOS is changing more quickly than the Mac and so the tools that we use are

00:55:23 ◼   ► changing and adapting more quickly. Just look back a couple of years ago

00:55:27 ◼   ► we didn't have Workflow or Pythonista or all the things that we have now and so

00:55:32 ◼   ► when I say an app that receives a couple of updates a year and maybe one of those

00:55:36 ◼   ► is just a bug fix, when I feel that an app cannot keep up with the pace of

00:55:41 ◼   ► progress with the pace of evolution on iOS and with my ever-changing needs, you

00:55:47 ◼   ► know, and requirements that doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. And that's

00:55:51 ◼   ► also why it's so tricky for indie developers today, especially when you

00:55:56 ◼   ► when you want to make a productivity app, right? It's not like you're making a

00:55:59 ◼   ► utility app that does one thing exceptionally well, a feature that

00:56:03 ◼   ► does never change and then you're like, "Okay, well, I gotta use this," right? But

00:56:08 ◼   ► Just look at workflow, for example,

00:56:10 ◼   ► and how the team behind workflow is constantly adapting,

00:56:14 ◼   ► constantly supporting new apps, new services,

00:56:16 ◼   ► new features, new designs.

00:56:19 ◼   ► Not a lot of developers can do that.

00:56:20 ◼   ► And it makes me sad,

00:56:22 ◼   ► but also I gotta think about the way that I work.

00:56:24 ◼   ► And I gotta think about the way that I make money

00:56:26 ◼   ► and the tools that I use.

00:56:27 ◼   ► And so,

00:56:28 ◼   ► I cannot afford to lose money

00:56:34 ◼   ► because of good feelings and all that.

00:56:37 ◼   ► I want to support in the developers,

00:56:38 ◼   ► but at the end of the day,

00:56:39 ◼   ► I also got to choose the tools that make me work best.

00:56:42 ◼   ► - Especially when this application has launched

00:56:44 ◼   ► with some areas that could be improved,

00:56:47 ◼   ► like that you can clearly see can be improved.

00:56:50 ◼   ► Like you say, like, okay, they've launched with URL schemes.

00:56:55 ◼   ► Great, there should be workflow actions, right?

00:56:57 ◼   ► Like you can see it, it's like, yes,

00:56:58 ◼   ► that should be a thing that is worked on.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Like the theme stuff,

00:57:02 ◼   ► there should be a different theme stuff.

00:57:04 ◼   ► They should be working on what, you know,

00:57:06 ◼   ► you talk about the conflict resolution stuff.

00:57:08 ◼   ► These are all areas that should be expanded upon.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Bridge links, I don't know how you do it.

00:57:12 ◼   ► Like I don't know if you can do it.

00:57:14 ◼   ► But like-- - You can do it,

00:57:15 ◼   ► you can do it. - I'm sure.

00:57:16 ◼   ► But there are things here that we can see

00:57:19 ◼   ► that this application can do.

00:57:21 ◼   ► So just the idea of seeing, and these updates,

00:57:25 ◼   ► like they don't need to be like big features all the time,

00:57:28 ◼   ► but you just wanna see it showing up in your updates

00:57:30 ◼   ► to have every now and then, right?

00:57:31 ◼   ► So you know that it's still alive.

00:57:34 ◼   ► I get what you're saying, I get what Steve is saying about,

00:57:39 ◼   ► it's maybe a lot to ask.

00:57:41 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:57:42 ◼   ► - But if this application wants to roll in

00:57:44 ◼   ► to the productivity note space,

00:57:47 ◼   ► you gotta be ready for it, right?

00:57:48 ◼   ► 'Cause this is, I mean, Vespa just died, right?

00:57:52 ◼   ► Like we see this, like this stuff happens,

00:57:55 ◼   ► and the way that you stop that happening

00:57:57 ◼   ► is by continuing to innovate,

00:57:58 ◼   ► continuing to push it forward,

00:58:00 ◼   ► and making it something that people can't live without.

00:58:02 ◼   ► and you do that by making it more and more powerful,

00:58:05 ◼   ► more and more reliable.

00:58:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, and they're saying that expectation

00:58:08 ◼   ► by having subscriptions in the first place, right?

00:58:10 ◼   ► - Yeah, that is such a great point.

00:58:13 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:58:14 ◼   ► - So if they go six months and the bugs that are there today

00:58:18 ◼   ► are still there or the feature set hasn't vastly improved,

00:58:21 ◼   ► like the other thing I was gonna say,

00:58:23 ◼   ► I don't expect them to add folders,

00:58:24 ◼   ► but I would expect them to add sort options right now.

00:58:27 ◼   ► It is only sortable by last modified,

00:58:30 ◼   ► which I hate, I want alphabetical sorting.

00:58:32 ◼   ► Notes added it this year,

00:58:35 ◼   ► and I have been thankful to the Notes team ever since.

00:58:38 ◼   ► That sort of stuff, like you said,

00:58:42 ◼   ► Notes gets updated once a year,

00:58:43 ◼   ► but there's some expectation of that.

00:58:45 ◼   ► But in this new subscription world,

00:58:49 ◼   ► the way Apple described it,

00:58:51 ◼   ► the way Apple pitched it was,

00:58:53 ◼   ► apps that are under development,

00:58:56 ◼   ► apps that are being worked on,

00:58:58 ◼   ► apps that provide an ongoing service.

00:59:02 ◼   ► And this app seems right at the line of all of that.

00:59:06 ◼   ► And regardless of the CloudKit stuff and how you feel about it, I think they've got to

00:59:13 ◼   ► make the case that that monthly or annual bill is worth it.

00:59:17 ◼   ► And the way they do that is progress.

00:59:19 ◼   ► Yeah, you've really raised an excellent point for this, which is like this is a different

00:59:24 ◼   ► world.

00:59:25 ◼   ► productivity app charging on a monthly or annual basis, updates are expected.

00:59:30 ◼   ► This isn't like a one-time payment thing and I think that is a different world to

00:59:34 ◼   ► the one that this app is playing in. Like if I'm paying every month then I

00:59:40 ◼   ► expect some stuff to happen, right? Is that unfair to say? I don't think

00:59:47 ◼   ► it's unfair because for example when people sign up for Club McStories and

00:59:50 ◼   ► they start paying me every month. I guess it depends on the way that you sell your subscription

00:59:58 ◼   ► because I clearly sell an ongoing product. You've got to expect an email every week.

01:00:06 ◼   ► And if you sign up and you don't get an email, that I'm not really holding up my end of the

01:00:11 ◼   ► promise between the two parties. So I guess it depends on the way that a developer chooses

01:00:15 ◼   ► to sell a subscription. Are you just selling support, recurring support? That's not the

01:00:21 ◼   ► case because you're selling sync and features in this case. But I feel like it even no matter

01:00:27 ◼   ► how you sell from a marketing perspective your subscription, there is an expectation

01:00:34 ◼   ► of a product that changes over time, that is fixed, that is improved over time. And

01:00:41 ◼   ► This is tricky, right, for indie developers when we talk about subscriptions could be a solution for the problems of the App Store.

01:00:49 ◼   ► They sure create a recurring avenue for revenue that is not like $3 upfront and that's about it.

01:00:55 ◼   ► But they also create an expectation from the customers who say "I'm giving you $2 every month and I'm getting an App Update every six months."

01:01:03 ◼   ► months it doesn't seem really like it's worth it and I know that you know

01:01:08 ◼   ► there's a lot to consider when it comes to competition on the app store it can

01:01:13 ◼   ► be really tough for a studio made of two people for example but that's the

01:01:18 ◼   ► reality that we're in and neither you choose to compete and you gotta compete

01:01:21 ◼   ► well and you gotta accept this reality that people have expectations for

01:01:24 ◼   ► products that are improved constantly every few weeks basically definitely not

01:01:30 ◼   ► twice a year or every two years or you don't compete at all. Don't put markdown

01:01:37 ◼   ► in your app if you want customers that don't expect updates, right? Putting markdown in,

01:01:43 ◼   ► you're making a clear statement of the type of person that you're going after.

01:01:46 ◼   ► Right, and they're entering a market that, to your point, is one that the

01:01:52 ◼   ► customer base is nerdy and they're entering one market that has had a lot of failures.

01:01:57 ◼   ► I mean how many Notes apps or tech setters have we seen come and go over the years?

01:02:03 ◼   ► I don't even know.

01:02:05 ◼   ► And also at this point there is a system app which is not going to go away which is really

01:02:11 ◼   ► good.

01:02:12 ◼   ► And we know that the company behind it is not going to go bankrupt.

01:02:15 ◼   ► I mean probably not unless they don't ever release a Mac Pro again.

01:02:21 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:02:22 ◼   ► - That's right, so Bayer, they're hanging their hat

01:02:25 ◼   ► on design and they're hanging their hat on markdown.

01:02:27 ◼   ► And I mean, good luck, like I hope it does well.

01:02:32 ◼   ► I want competition.

01:02:33 ◼   ► I would use this app if it wasn't all based

01:02:39 ◼   ► on stupid tagging, but, and that's a personal preference,

01:02:43 ◼   ► but-- - You gotta adjust

01:02:44 ◼   ► your hashtag workflows, man.

01:02:45 ◼   ► - Oh, can I just hang up Skype now?

01:02:49 ◼   ► But it's a hard market to be in,

01:02:52 ◼   ► and they're doing it in a very interesting way,

01:02:54 ◼   ► which I think is why we're all talking about it.

01:02:56 ◼   ► But I just don't know what the future holds

01:02:58 ◼   ► for apps like this.

01:02:59 ◼   ► Can they have a big enough market

01:03:03 ◼   ► to sustain ongoing development?

01:03:06 ◼   ► And I don't know.

01:03:08 ◼   ► It's gonna be really interesting to see

01:03:10 ◼   ► how this one ends up.

01:03:11 ◼   ► - I think people should check it out, right?

01:03:12 ◼   ► 'Cause it's free to try,

01:03:14 ◼   ► and I think it's even,

01:03:15 ◼   ► you get a week free with the subscription,

01:03:17 ◼   ► so you should definitely try it.

01:03:19 ◼   ► - You get a month free, we get a month free

01:03:21 ◼   ► if you do the annual, you get a week with the monthly.

01:03:24 ◼   ► - I think people should try it

01:03:25 ◼   ► because it is really, really, really nice

01:03:27 ◼   ► and you might have a place for it in your systems,

01:03:31 ◼   ► like many of us do.

01:03:33 ◼   ► It's not replace notes but it could

01:03:36 ◼   ► and I would be willing to try it

01:03:38 ◼   ► but it needs a few things first.

01:03:41 ◼   ► Before we wrap up today, I just wanna tell people

01:03:43 ◼   ► about an amazing app that I've been introduced to.

01:03:47 ◼   ► Jack Bremer on Twitter told me about this.

01:03:51 ◼   ► It's called a Maisio Graph.

01:03:53 ◼   ► If you have an iPad that has an Apple Pencil,

01:03:56 ◼   ► you need to try this application.

01:03:58 ◼   ► It's like 79 pence, 99 cents.

01:04:01 ◼   ► It's really difficult to describe.

01:04:03 ◼   ► There is a video in the App Store which will help.

01:04:06 ◼   ► It's basically, it allows you to create

01:04:10 ◼   ► like a kaleidoscope-like drawings.

01:04:13 ◼   ► Like there are a bunch of different templates

01:04:15 ◼   ► that you can draw from.

01:04:17 ◼   ► in that you will draw something and it gets replicated across a canvas.

01:04:21 ◼   ► It's amazing.

01:04:23 ◼   ► It's super hard to explain.

01:04:24 ◼   ► I'm going to include three little doodles that I did with this in the show notes.

01:04:30 ◼   ► If you have an apple pencil with your iPad, you definitely should pay the money to just

01:04:36 ◼   ► try this thing out because it's so much fun to doodle with and to see the amazing patterns

01:04:42 ◼   ► that you create.

01:04:43 ◼   ► It's like drawing your own kaleidoscopes.

01:04:45 ◼   ► awesome. So it's a PSA for people. You should try this out. It is really really fun. And

01:04:53 ◼   ► I think it's made by one person. At least that's how like the... It's made by Marina

01:05:00 ◼   ► Stakova. I don't know how this application was like discovered. I haven't seen it anywhere.

01:05:07 ◼   ► But Jack sent it to me and I really really really love playing with this app.

01:05:13 ◼   ► All of your drawings look like the creation of a British man on LSD.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:05:20 ◼   ► It's quite impressive.

01:05:21 ◼   ► Well done Myke.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Yeah, it is the world that I see after I have my first coffee in the morning.

01:05:27 ◼   ► This is what I see.

01:05:28 ◼   ► Yeah, are you sure that's coffee Myke?

01:05:29 ◼   ► I have no idea what you're talking about.

01:05:34 ◼   ► So that wraps up this week's episode.

01:05:37 ◼   ► If you want to catch our show notes for this week, which we have all of our links in it,

01:05:40 ◼   ► Relay.fm/Connected/116. Thanks again to the lovely folk over at MacPaw and MailRoute for

01:05:47 ◼   ► supporting this week's episode. If you want to find Federico online he is @Vitiici on Twitter.

01:05:54 ◼   ► Steven is @ismh and I am @imike. You can find Federico's work at macstories.net and Steven's

01:06:03 ◼   ► at 512pixels.net. This show is a part of Relay FM, we have a whole host of shows at Relay

01:06:09 ◼   ► FM that you should check out. We have stuff for the technology focus, for the gaming focus,

01:06:13 ◼   ► for creative people and now we are adding the lovely mix feelings to our network as

01:06:18 ◼   ► well which focuses on more current events which is a nice break from the type of shows

01:06:24 ◼   ► that we're used to creating. So there's always stuff there, if you only listen to Connected

01:06:28 ◼   ► you need to fix that situation immediately. There's a ton of stuff at Relay FM that I

01:06:32 ◼   ► I am very confident you would enjoy.

01:06:35 ◼   ► Thank you so much for listening to this week's show.

01:06:37 ◼   ► We'll be back next week.

01:06:39 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye guys.

01:06:40 ◼   ► - Arrivederci.