142: A Trip to Barcelona
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From VLA FM, this is Connected, episode 142. Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace
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and PDF Pen 9 from SMILE. My name is Myke Early. I am joined by Mr. Stephen Hackett. Hello,
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Stephen Hackett. Hello, Michael Hurley. And the man of the hour, Mr. Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.
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Ciao a tutti. Hello. Hi.
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Wow, that was a lot. That was a lot in that.
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It was really not a lot. How are you?
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I'm very well. How are you?
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A little tired, but also happy that it's over again.
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So Federico published a really big article today and video,
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and we're going to talk about that a little bit later on in the show.
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But before we do, Steven requires that we discuss follow up
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as part of his official contract that he signed.
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I wrote it and then I signed it and it's just me.
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- And crayon. - Crayon, come on.
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Come on, man.
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So we've spoken a lot about Amazon's new echoes,
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the look, which has a camera and is all about fashion,
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and then the echo show, which is an echo with a screen,
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and so it can display you information,
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it's a touchscreen, you can interact with it.
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That ships, as we've discussed, in like six weeks or so,
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the very end of June,
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but there's been a lot of conversation around
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sort of thing they slipped into all of this and it's in existing echoes as well
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in the app. Amazon kind of launched a messaging platform so it works a couple
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of different ways depending on what devices you have. So I have an echo dot
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for instance here on my desk just right there a couple feet away and I can send
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voice messages and receive voice messages through it or through the
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application and if for instance Federico sends me one the echo will blink the
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ring around it turns green. I didn't know what that meant and so I just asked the
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Echo blank "why are you green?" and it told me. It was just kind of amazing moment
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like oh it really understood what I meant but there's been a lot of concern
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about privacy and and like there's some weirdness here. There's an article over
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on the verge outlining some of this. More or less when you open the the new Echo
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app on your iPhone which has been redesigned it's way nicer now and you
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have to upload all your contacts and it looks those contacts up it says these
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people have echoes you can talk to these people obviously that's not super great
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but a lot of people are doing it I did it like I give him my contact sorry if
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you're my contact list sorry sorry contacts but I want to see what this
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what this was like and it will talk about it but there's no way to block
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communication at this point that you don't want so if someone is sending you
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messages and you don't want to hear from them or they're being inappropriate or
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they're harassing you there's no way to block those people as long as somebody
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has your phone number and this Echo mobile app then they can reach you.
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It's interesting that I don't see it in my application like I can't see anything
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that talks about messages. I think it's US only. Feels like it must be US only
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there you go. Yeah so the so I guess the the story here is I mean obviously there
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There are issues with this and there should be a way to block people.
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Some people have said it's a problem that anyone with your phone number can message
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you through this thing.
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And like, I don't see a huge problem with that because if someone has your contact information,
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they can call your phone or send you an iMessage or send you an email.
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Yes, it's weird that the echoes in your kitchen is going to light up green and make a noise.
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That's a little bit different, but I do think they definitely need some mechanism to say,
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this person, I do not want this person to be able to contact me via the Echo.
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Yeah, I think that's the problem really. It's not about anyone can contact you
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because, you know, anyone can call me if they have my phone number and anyone can
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text me, anyone can come to my house and ring the doorbell. I don't think that's a
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problem. The problem is the kind of action that you can take to prevent that
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from happening over and over. So if someone comes to my house and rings my
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but every five minutes I'm gonna go downstairs and take care of that. And if anyone starts calling me
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on my iPhone I'm just gonna block the number. Here on the in the Electa app there's no way to block
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anyone and I think that's a problem because you know with these communication systems where there's
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no two-way authentication you know you have my phone number you can call me and this is the same
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concept. You have my phone number, you can ring my echo speaker, but there's no blocking UI,
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there's no blocking feature, and I think Amazon needs to add that and needs to add settings to
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prevent people from being called all the time. I think it makes sense and I'm not sure how you can
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ship a communication product today and not think of the blocking system, just because anyone
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gonna ask them today and it just doesn't make any sense to me. I'm so surprised
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that Amazon had this kind of oversight. So two things. One, they said that they're
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gonna add it right after this story kind of caught a bit of heat. They said, "We're sorry
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we're working on it." The other thing, I've been thinking a lot about this.
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My initial point was, my initial feeling was definitely the same as you guys.
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It's like, you know, this is just the way things are now. People can just contact
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you. If you give someone your contact information, right, they can
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contact you however. I tell you the thing that I've been thinking about that's been
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playing on my mind a little bit. When everybody bought the Amazon Echo, they didn't think
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it would ever do this. There was never an idea that this was going to be a device that
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people could start calling you on. I don't think anybody considered that as an option
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and obviously Amazon didn't say it. So you bought this device and put it into your home.
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you are a type of person who just doesn't want this, well this is really frustrating
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because now this device has been updated without your desire and now people can start calling
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That is true.
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That is, I think that's the problem where it's like, I was thinking like, well look,
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every service now, like you know, people can contact you, but like if you think about how
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you do this, you download the applications, right, or whatever, or you have a phone and
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And you know that your phone is a communications device, which is why you bought it, and any
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communication apps you put on it will allow for people to communicate with you.
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But when we brought these canisters, these echoes, and put them in our homes, they were
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purely "I'm going to communicate with you and you'll talk to Amazon."
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No one was ever talking back to me, but now people can start calling me.
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And it's not just on the Echo Show, right?
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Which is like, okay, if this new product has the calling in it, then you know.
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But everybody's echoes were updated silently, right?
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And now people can start calling you.
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That's the thing that I find is different.
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Because it's kind of like Trojan horse this messaging system into the product.
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Which I think is one of the difference makers of it.
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Yeah, that's a good point.
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That makes sense.
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Especially, you know, you buy a device with some kind of expectation and then, you know,
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Echo is the type of hardware that updates itself, you cannot even decide "oh I don't
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want this update". Like I know people for example who the iOS interface changes and
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people do not update because they don't want the changes, your changes are pushed upon
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I would like it if you could just say like turn it off, I don't want people messaging
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me. Just a broad switch to just turn it off. Because you shouldn't necessarily force this
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on people right? Like it's not, I don't think Amazon's looking to change the world with
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this thing, they basically were trying to add a feature to their new camera device.
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And then they just said, well, we can just do this everywhere.
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On the drop-in, by the way, Amazon published a really good demo video.
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And I think this one was significantly better than the original Echo video, where they were
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kind of showing off what the device could do.
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And they showed some of the drop-in feature, right?
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I had problems with that drop-in feature last week.
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And it looks like that when you go to drop in on someone, they see like a blurred, a
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really blurred view. So they can't just see you automatically and you get the ability
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to stop it from happening. Like you can say like, no, like don't, don't let the person
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Yeah. And so I think, okay, that looks much better than, than the, like the original way
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that I thought it was going to be.
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Like a face appears.
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- Yeah, they could just like, you're doing whatever
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you're doing and then your grandma's just like
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looking at you.
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- Yeah, it's like the Harry Potter scene
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when Sirius Black appears in the fireplace.
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- Exactly, it is just like that.
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Funnily enough, that was what I thought of
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when I first saw it.
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So yeah, I think that it's good.
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And we should watch a video.
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I haven't seen a video, it's like a five minute video.
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And I think Amazon does a really good story telling here.
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Like they really have a good way of showing
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how the product can be used and they have something
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that I like more in this video than the previous video,
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a bunch of different families and people
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so it can show different use cases.
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And it's pretty funny too, so it's worth watching.
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But it's good just to get a little bit more context
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around what drop-in's all about.
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- Yeah, it's just a weird addition, I think.
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The more I think about it,
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to have it in the app and everywhere.
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And I think a part of that too, we haven't really mentioned,
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is that the Echo, at least for those of us
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who live with other humans,
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is not necessarily like a personal device.
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Like I ask it something, my kids ask something,
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my wife wants it to start a song.
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We're all using it for different things
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and it's not, yes it's tied to certain things of mine,
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but my kids don't know that they can add things
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to my to-do list from it.
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Just pray for me if that ever happens.
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But it's a communal device and messaging,
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by default, is a very private thing.
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And so I, even though, you know, my nerd friends who have echoes who we've been playing with
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it this week, I know I trust them, they're not going to send something terrible to me
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over the echo messaging app.
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But if they did, I've got a house full of children.
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And like, you know, that there's that aspect of it too, that you're right, Myke, that it's
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sort of Trojan horse in there.
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But it's also weird because it's it takes something personal communication and puts
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it you know, potentially in a non personal environment.
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I think that's a little weird too.
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So we should move on.
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We have a link in the show notes to the Relay.fm blog.
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We have launched two new shows this week.
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The first is called Roboism.
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It is by Alex Cox.
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You may know Alex from things like Cards against Humanity or Dubai Friday.
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Podcast is really great.
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And her co-host Savannah Milian.
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They talk about robots, artificial intelligence, machine learning, and how all that stuff affects
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our culture.
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I think for me at least I think about sort of the stuff is like kind of out there in
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the future but the reality is this stuff is now here in the present and Alex and Savannah
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talk about that.
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It's a fortnightly show.
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It will be a lot of fun.
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Episode one is out now.
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We also launched originality so Aline Sims who used to host less than or equal on the
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network she's back with a new show with Kay Tempest Bradford.
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Tempest is an author and they together are interviewing creatives about like the
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where's, how's and why's of creative genius like where ideas come from and how you
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work on these ideas into like a finished work and it's a really fun format.
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They're interviewing people and then they like jump in and talk about the
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interview and go back to it. Really nicely edited. They're doing a really
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nice job in the production. If you enjoyed Myke's old interview show which
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had like six names over the years. I don't know why you have to be that way.
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If you like that sort of programming, I think you would enjoy originality. It's also Fortnitely,
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so neither of those are weekly. You've got plenty of time to get them in your schedule.
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And yeah, go check them out. And while we're on the news front, continuing
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the year of live that we've spoken about, there's going to be a London meetup, a London-based
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meetup for two-thirds of the Connected podcast on Friday, June the 2nd. It's going to be
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the first link in the show notes this week will be to get tickets if you want to go get
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tickets. Me and Federico are going to be in town back at the Big Chill House on Friday
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June 2nd from 7 to 10pm. The tickets are free so you can go and sign up and come along and
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say hi to us as we get prepared to head off to San Jose the next day.
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Yeah, last year was awesome. It was. It was. It was a lot of fun.
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And you know, it was actually I think my first time meeting any kind of podcast listener
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and it just made it so real and everyone was so happy and so kind.
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It was one of the highlights of my entire trip to WWDC so I cannot wait to do it again
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and I'm very happy that we're doing it again.
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So if you want to be a highlight of Federico's trip, come get a ticket and hang out with
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us in London.
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We have limited availability and they're going to go quick so if you're listening to this
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episode and you want to come click that link right now mm-hmm I will not be
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there no that day is actually my 10 year wedding anniversary so we're
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congratulations all around then it's yeah so you guys have your meetup can we
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buy a ticket to that also even now okay moving on
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- Are you buying listeners along to your dinner or anything?
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- No, real good.
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- Yeah, yeah.
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We'll be at this bed and breakfast.
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Please don't come.
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- Yeah, we'll give you the link so you can stay away.
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So we have sort of a mini topic before we get in,
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and this has been floating in our document for a while,
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so my apologies to listener Jessica.
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She wrote this in weeks ago,
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but we're finally getting to it,
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And I thought it'd be an interesting conversation
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in light of what we're gonna talk about today with iOS 11.
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And so Jessica writes,
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"What's going on with the iPod Touch?
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"We have two in our household for the kids
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"and they are aging."
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I assume she means the iPod's Touch are aging
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and not the kids, maybe both.
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- Both, yeah.
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- But we're not going to replace them,
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again, hopefully talking about the iPod Touch,
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but we're not going to replace them
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with something last updated in 2015.
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"It's got an AA chip, but is that good enough these days?
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"Should we get that new cheap iPad and move on from this?
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what's the deal Apple? So I agree with Jessica that this is weird. You know there's a $329
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iPad. The iPod touch is older. It got that update but it's still like the smaller screen
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size and cameras aren't as good and it just really seems like it's fallen from grace over
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the years. What do you guys think?
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I think that if you're interested in having this kind of device today, that you're better
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placed with an iPad of some kind, I really don't think that the iPod touch is long for
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this world, honestly.
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I can't see it.
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I mean, they are cheaper.
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They can start at $199 for the 16 gig.
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But I agree with you.
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You know, when they first announced it, the world was very different, right?
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The iPhone was basically only on AT&T and only in the United States.
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that's not the case anymore. The iPhone is everywhere. The iPad didn't exist. It
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exists now. And I think just those devices have really squeezed the iPod
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Touch sort of out of the line almost. It's still around but it feels
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like it's a legacy product and you know the days are gone where the iPod Touch
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was as good as the newest iPhone all the time. I mean I'm looking at Mac Tracker
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and they released an iPod Touch like every September for several years and
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and then it just slowly, you know,
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those gaps got wider and wider
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and now it's been coming up on two years.
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I think the moral of the story is probably don't buy one.
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That's my thought.
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That's what I would say.
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- Yeah, I wouldn't buy an Apple Touch.
00:16:09
◼
►
I mean, just get an iPad Mini, I guess.
00:16:13
◼
►
What's the difference in price again?
00:16:15
◼
►
- Yeah, the iPad Mini is like $399 or $499, I'm looking.
00:16:20
◼
►
- If it's $399, that's, you know, $70 difference.
00:16:24
◼
►
I mean, you get, you know, games would be bigger and the screen would be slightly bigger.
00:16:31
◼
►
I mean not slightly but still not as huge as an iPad Pro.
00:16:37
◼
►
I mean I wouldn't get an iPod Touch.
00:16:40
◼
►
I would just reuse iPad Minis and maybe iPad Airs if you can maybe get a refurbished model
00:16:49
◼
►
That's a good point.
00:16:51
◼
►
had many I remember now they only sell one model it's the 128 gig for $399 and
00:16:56
◼
►
so if you you know from the base iPod touch to the mini is a big jump but that
00:17:01
◼
►
cheap iPad and like you said refurbished iPads are in there in the middle
00:17:05
◼
►
somewhere yeah I think that's what you should probably do yes I think that's I
00:17:08
◼
►
think that's our collective advice is say goodbye to the iPod touch yeah I
00:17:12
◼
►
mean who knows right what they might end up doing with it but I'm just saying I
00:17:18
◼
►
would be really surprised if it was anything other than silently going away.
00:17:22
◼
►
Yeah. I mean you know another thing would be if you really like that size I'm
00:17:30
◼
►
sure that you could probably get relatively cheap iPhones right like 5c's
00:17:35
◼
►
and 5s's and stuff like that which might stick around for a little bit longer and
00:17:40
◼
►
just you know just don't put SIM cards in them and you'll probably be okay.
00:17:43
◼
►
Yeah, it's always a good option too. Well, we don't know, maybe listener Jessica, she's
00:17:49
◼
►
a billionaire and she wants to buy iPhone 7s to the kids. That's true, you could do
00:17:53
◼
►
that too. That could be, that could be. That is the billionaire's option. If you're a little
00:17:58
◼
►
more price conscious, I would say go for a refurbished iPad and, you know, whether it's
00:18:04
◼
►
a mini or an Air, it's still better than the 8, AA chip and the iPod touch. Do you mean
00:18:10
◼
►
more price conscious than a billionaire.
00:18:12
◼
►
Like I think they were the two options you were posing.
00:18:15
◼
►
Either a billionaire or you're more price conscious.
00:18:17
◼
►
- She could be a millionaire.
00:18:18
◼
►
I mean, in my mind, you're either price conscious
00:18:21
◼
►
or you're a billionaire, you know?
00:18:23
◼
►
- No middle class.
00:18:26
◼
►
- That's a way of looking at it.
00:18:27
◼
►
- What's the middle class anyway?
00:18:29
◼
►
- Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace.
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Alright, so Mr. Federico Vittucci, you have gone ahead and done it again and created an
00:20:17
◼
►
iOS concept video.
00:20:19
◼
►
Now this is something you did for the first time last year, right?
00:20:22
◼
►
Yes, the concept video and the mockups were the change from last year with iOS 10.
00:20:30
◼
►
For context, I've been doing my annual iOS wishlist since the days of iOS 6, so when
00:20:36
◼
►
when iOS 5 was the current OS, I published my first article in this series called iOS
00:20:42
◼
►
6 Wishes that was 2012 and I've been doing this since for every iOS version. Last year
00:20:48
◼
►
with iOS 10, in addition to my wishlist, we also did a concept video to visualize the
00:20:56
◼
►
wishes themselves and to sort of give people a better idea of what I had in mind. And this
00:21:01
◼
►
we've done it again. There's a new concept video. We're talking about iOS 11 of course,
00:21:07
◼
►
but the twist is because I feel that the iPad is more behind than the iPhone in terms of
00:21:14
◼
►
attention and in terms of power, you know, power user features. This year my iOS 11 wishes
00:21:20
◼
►
and concept video are all about the iPad and the future of the iPad.
00:21:24
◼
►
And I guess at this point right now we're all pretty confident that and hoping but also
00:21:31
◼
►
a little bit confident that this will be Apple's tact as well, right? That the iPad's going
00:21:35
◼
►
to get some serious love at WWDC.
00:21:37
◼
►
I think so. And I know, you know, it's almost like multiple people seem to know this and
00:21:44
◼
►
to agree upon this, that iPad features were supposed to come out earlier than the situation
00:21:50
◼
►
that we're in right now, which is basically it's two years since iOS 9 and almost, you
00:21:55
◼
►
know, over a year and a half after the original iPad Pro. And it wasn't supposed to be this
00:21:59
◼
►
long but whatever happened now we're at the stage where WWDC is upon us and
00:22:04
◼
►
maybe there's going to be a visual refresh of iOS you know in general on
00:22:08
◼
►
the iPhone and the iPad but really Apple is gonna have some iPad love to share at WWDC.
00:22:14
◼
►
There was something that you said in your article that I really liked you
00:22:18
◼
►
said iOS for iPhone is I believe at a point of sufficient maturity the iPad
00:22:23
◼
►
that now bears the proverbial low hanging fruit of iOS?
00:22:28
◼
►
Yeah, I mean, I find that hard to disagree.
00:22:32
◼
►
If you consider the iPhone and iPad advancing simultaneously, you could say that the iPhone
00:22:38
◼
►
is at least a couple of years ahead of the iPad.
00:22:43
◼
►
If you look back at iOS 9, there was the point when Apple stopped, I don't want to say caring
00:22:48
◼
►
about the iPad, but making features and designs and, you know, thinking about iPad users as
00:22:58
◼
►
a different type of users than the iPhone average customer.
00:23:03
◼
►
And over the past two years, the iPhone has advanced with iOS 10, we got some amazing
00:23:08
◼
►
features for the iPhone and, you know, we got the iMessage, for example, was clearly
00:23:13
◼
►
optimized for the iPhone, the stickers.
00:23:15
◼
►
Initially they didn't even work on the iPad in SplitView.
00:23:18
◼
►
Instead, we didn't get any iPad only feature, because I think the main difference here to
00:23:25
◼
►
bring up is it doesn't matter if Apple releases the same option on both platforms, and they're
00:23:31
◼
►
going to say, "Well, this amazing iPhone feature also works on the iPad."
00:23:36
◼
►
Because I think iPad users need and deserve some iPad only and iPad first functionality
00:23:43
◼
►
that truly takes advantage of the bigger screen and the different type of device.
00:23:47
◼
►
Otherwise, every feature, every design is just going to be an adaptation from the iPhone.
00:23:53
◼
►
And so I think there's so much more potential to change things on the iPad.
00:23:59
◼
►
And there's so much, and this is a point that I make in the story, there's so much missing
00:24:04
◼
►
functionality really from the iPad.
00:24:06
◼
►
The iPhone you could argue, well, Apple is going to do something new, maybe a new design,
00:24:11
◼
►
some new system apps, but you cannot really say, "Well, this is absolutely missing from
00:24:16
◼
►
the iPhone."
00:24:18
◼
►
And I feel like the same is not true for the iPad.
00:24:20
◼
►
There's stuff that is clearly missing from the iPad right now.
00:24:25
◼
►
So let me play devil's advocate for just a second.
00:24:28
◼
►
I agree with you.
00:24:29
◼
►
I think the iPhone point in particular is very well said, and I think it would benefit
00:24:35
◼
►
Apple to treat the iPhone and iPad more independently of each other.
00:24:40
◼
►
maybe not as far as splitting the OS but like really focusing on them as what
00:24:45
◼
►
they are. But as the resident Mac user on the show before I lost Myke I just I
00:24:52
◼
►
can't help but think that that iPad users are being a little bit finicky
00:24:58
◼
►
with some of the stuff that yeah it's been two years but this stuff takes time
00:25:05
◼
►
and I was just thinking back over the course of OS X's life and you know iOS
00:25:12
◼
►
is now 10 years old and it is not as far along as Mac OS X was but Mac OS X had
00:25:19
◼
►
a head start right and and I think that someone looking at the two of you saying
00:25:25
◼
►
well this is ridiculous you guys are spoiled like quit whining it's only been
00:25:29
◼
►
two years the Mac's not getting this sort of attention anymore I don't think
00:25:34
◼
►
that's fair of those people and and they're my people they're my people
00:25:38
◼
►
saying it but I think it's unfair because the Mac got a head start right
00:25:43
◼
►
the Mac was built upon next step and stuff from the classic Mac OS and so you
00:25:49
◼
►
have things like copy and paste out of the box and and I was sad to add that it
00:25:54
◼
►
took them two years and they finally did it in iOS 3 but I just think as we move
00:25:59
◼
►
forward if you are a Mac user listening to this and you think that Federico and
00:26:03
◼
►
micro being silly for complaining that it's been two years since I've gotten an
00:26:06
◼
►
update then I don't I just don't think that's fair because iOS is still a young
00:26:13
◼
►
OS the Mac is much more mature and this is a something micro in the show notes
00:26:19
◼
►
so I'm gonna steal it that it would be difficult for us to sit down and make a
00:26:23
◼
►
list of needed features and improvements like this for Mac OS I mean I've been
00:26:28
◼
►
working on like a Mac OS 10.13 wish list it'd be honest with you guys like it's
00:26:33
◼
►
it's pretty short. Like the Mac is mature and stable and most of the stuff I want on
00:26:39
◼
►
that list is actually like dialing back some of the new stuff or like tweaking stuff they've
00:26:43
◼
►
added but the core is good. Whereas iOS is younger and has more room to grow because
00:26:48
◼
►
of it. So I just kind of wanted to clear the deck if people are thinking that because I
00:26:52
◼
►
think it's a little unfair. I think it's a valid point. I just disagree with the premise
00:26:59
◼
►
is that it's only been two years,
00:27:00
◼
►
especially from a company that tries to sell the iPad
00:27:03
◼
►
as the future, and then you stop for two years.
00:27:07
◼
►
That's a very long time.
00:27:08
◼
►
If you truly believe that something
00:27:10
◼
►
is the future of computing,
00:27:11
◼
►
and it's not like we're talking about some, you know,
00:27:14
◼
►
low profile startup with some small team working on this.
00:27:19
◼
►
We're talking about Apple and the CEO going out and saying,
00:27:22
◼
►
well, we believe this is the future
00:27:23
◼
►
of computing for everyone.
00:27:25
◼
►
And I just struggled to reconcile those statements
00:27:29
◼
►
with two years of effectively pause on the iPad software.
00:27:33
◼
►
And I know that this stuff takes time.
00:27:35
◼
►
So it's not the end of the world.
00:27:38
◼
►
It's not like Apple didn't ship features for the iPad
00:27:40
◼
►
and now we're all upset and we're gonna switch to Linux.
00:27:43
◼
►
That is not the case, but it's also,
00:27:45
◼
►
it needs to be said that it's been two years
00:27:48
◼
►
and it is time for something new.
00:27:50
◼
►
And I know that Mac users have been waiting for longer
00:27:55
◼
►
But it's also much more... I think it's been around for a long time and, like you said,
00:28:00
◼
►
it's hard to come up with new ideas and wishes of things that are missing from the Mac because
00:28:05
◼
►
it's so mature at this point.
00:28:07
◼
►
Yeah, I mean, something as simple as... well, not as simple, but something as sort of basic
00:28:12
◼
►
as window management, and we're getting ready to get into this with some of the Split View
00:28:17
◼
►
stuff, but if you look at the Mac, Apple introduced Spaces and Exposé years ago.
00:28:25
◼
►
I think Exposé was like 10.3 or 10.4 and the Spaces was in Leopard and now they sort
00:28:30
◼
►
of like smashed all that into Mission Control and they redid Mission Control and they need
00:28:34
◼
►
to redo it again because it's still not really good.
00:28:37
◼
►
But they're sort of like taking the pieces they already have and rearranging them where
00:28:41
◼
►
iOS, they need to bring some of that stuff to it in the first place, right?
00:28:45
◼
►
The split view was a good first step,
00:28:46
◼
►
but they need to move beyond that now.
00:28:49
◼
►
So I just think it's not an apples to apples comparison
00:28:52
◼
►
between the two operating systems.
00:28:55
◼
►
- And also, all of the stuff that we're gonna talk about,
00:28:57
◼
►
all of the stuff that Federico has written about,
00:29:00
◼
►
is just new ways, new ideas of doing things
00:29:03
◼
►
that already exist on desktop platforms.
00:29:06
◼
►
Reimagining some concepts for how they would work
00:29:09
◼
►
on a touch interface to get work done.
00:29:13
◼
►
These aren't like brand new pie in the sky things for the most part.
00:29:18
◼
►
It's like finding ways to bring needed features to iOS that currently exist in MacOS and in Windows.
00:29:26
◼
►
So it's not, you know, we're like give us feature parity.
00:29:31
◼
►
It's what we want. Or concepts, right? Like the concepts.
00:29:34
◼
►
So like drag and drop, which is the first one we're going to talk about.
00:29:37
◼
►
Like there isn't a way to drag and drop something from thing to thing in iOS.
00:29:42
◼
►
from app to app, from app to file system,
00:29:45
◼
►
or anything like this, this doesn't exist.
00:29:47
◼
►
And boy would it be nice.
00:29:49
◼
►
So let's talk about it.
00:29:50
◼
►
Federico, you conceive of an idea of drag and drop.
00:29:54
◼
►
So kind of from your perspective,
00:29:56
◼
►
what do you think that drag and drop looks like on iOS?
00:30:00
◼
►
- This is the feature that we also showcased last year
00:30:04
◼
►
in the iOS 10 concept video.
00:30:05
◼
►
And this year we had time to refine the idea
00:30:09
◼
►
and to maybe consider all of the implications.
00:30:11
◼
►
So the basic idea is it should be super simple and it should be intuitive for users.
00:30:19
◼
►
Imagine Split View for example, you have two apps open at the same time and you want to
00:30:23
◼
►
get some text or maybe an image from the app on the left to the app on the right.
00:30:29
◼
►
Right now there's really no easy way or intuitive way to do that on iOS 10.
00:30:33
◼
►
You either have to copy the image to the clipboard and then paste in the other app.
00:30:38
◼
►
it works, other times it doesn't work, or you need to use an extension. So you need
00:30:43
◼
►
to go through a bunch of different places and sort of rely on workarounds to move data.
00:30:50
◼
►
With drag and drop, I feel like the obvious solution would be you just hold down on the
00:30:54
◼
►
text that you want to move or the image that you want to bring into the other app, and
00:30:59
◼
►
you just move it. You just drag it there. You grab it, you move it, and you drop it.
00:31:03
◼
►
And I feel like Apple nailed this idea decades ago on the Mac and it's been around since
00:31:11
◼
►
I think actually Jeff Raskin invented the click and drag behavior on the original Macintosh.
00:31:18
◼
►
And it's a proven, it's a solid idea that I feel a lot of people say, "Well, drag and
00:31:23
◼
►
drop, it's a desktop feature, it's made for the mouse, it doesn't make sense on a mobile
00:31:27
◼
►
touchscreen."
00:31:28
◼
►
And I think the argument doesn't make any sense because if you think about it, on desktop
00:31:33
◼
►
you're using an abstraction, a metaphor of your hand, which is the trackpad and the mouse cursor on the screen,
00:31:40
◼
►
to select objects and move them around.
00:31:43
◼
►
And now you ask, you could actually hold the objects on the screen and swipe physically with your finger
00:31:48
◼
►
to move data around. And so that's the simplest implementation.
00:31:52
◼
►
But then in the concept and in the article I explained, you know, maybe you don't want to drop an item into an app right away,
00:32:02
◼
►
maybe you want to save it for later, or maybe you don't know the app that you want to drop it in,
00:32:07
◼
►
so you want to open the multitasking switcher and select an app icon while you are already holding an item.
00:32:13
◼
►
And of course there are multiple types of items that you could drag, you know, text and images are obvious,
00:32:18
◼
►
but what about the PDF document? What about a Safari web page? Or what if you want to drag and drop a location from maps?
00:32:25
◼
►
So there's this whole system that will require a framework, like a system-wide framework and an API from Apple.
00:32:32
◼
►
it's a big effort to support multiple content types and to tell developers,
00:32:38
◼
►
"Here's an API, here's how your app can support these two methods." Allowing the
00:32:45
◼
►
users to hold down and select a piece of content and being able for your app to
00:32:51
◼
►
receive content that is dropped by the user. There are multiple implications and
00:32:57
◼
►
it's super difficult if you think about the technical aspects. I went
00:33:00
◼
►
back and I actually tried to read the document of, I think it was called
00:33:05
◼
►
Drag Manager on System 7. It's a PDF that is still available on apple.com for some
00:33:09
◼
►
reason. And to give you the idea that this is stuff that Apple has been
00:33:14
◼
►
thinking about for a long time. Apple, back in the System 7 days, they referred
00:33:19
◼
►
to item flavors. So for example, if you have an item that is text, text can have
00:33:24
◼
►
multiple flavors. It can be plain text or it can be rich text. If it's rich text,
00:33:29
◼
►
Maybe it's got some formatting, so you got to account for that.
00:33:32
◼
►
And there are all these different variables
00:33:34
◼
►
that if you enable drag and drop,
00:33:36
◼
►
so if you enable this direct communication between two apps,
00:33:40
◼
►
you got to have effectively a language to let those apps
00:33:45
◼
►
understand each other.
00:33:46
◼
►
So hopefully there will be an API
00:33:49
◼
►
and there will be a modernized implementation of this stuff
00:33:53
◼
►
that Apple has been doing for over 20 years, basically.
00:33:55
◼
►
I want to come back to the developer point in a second,
00:33:58
◼
►
but there's something that I want to drill down on,
00:33:59
◼
►
which I think is really interesting,
00:34:01
◼
►
which is the idea of multi-touch, right?
00:34:02
◼
►
And you've kind of, you've glossed on it a couple of times.
00:34:07
◼
►
It's the idea of like, if you imagine two apps in split view
00:34:09
◼
►
and you have notes on one side
00:34:11
◼
►
and you have a webpage on the other
00:34:12
◼
►
and you want to drag an image from a webpage,
00:34:16
◼
►
if you were doing this, you know,
00:34:17
◼
►
and you could like, you could pick it up
00:34:20
◼
►
and you could drag it, you could hold it down the bottom
00:34:22
◼
►
and it starts to scroll, right?
00:34:24
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But what you would be able to do on iOS
00:34:26
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is you could just, you could scroll the other application
00:34:30
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with your other hand, right?
00:34:32
◼
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Like the idea of being able to like pinch and zoom
00:34:34
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and move around whilst you're holding a piece of content,
00:34:37
◼
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continuing to manipulate the screen.
00:34:39
◼
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You could go to the home screen,
00:34:41
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you're still holding it with your other hand.
00:34:42
◼
►
You could pick another app, you can drop it in.
00:34:44
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►
Like the idea of having effectively multiple cursors
00:34:48
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on screen is really nice, right?
00:34:51
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And I'm sure you'd be able to do like what you can do
00:34:52
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on macOS, let's say you could pick up a file,
00:34:56
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hold it, wait for the file to open, drop it in, right? That kind of thing.
00:35:01
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you could actually be manipulating all of that stuff manually and quicker
00:35:04
◼
►
because you're able to tap around. And I think that that is,
00:35:07
◼
►
that is a very compelling idea for me. Um, I, one thing that I really,
00:35:12
◼
►
really hope for and that I get concerned about when I think about this is I
00:35:15
◼
►
really, really,
00:35:16
◼
►
really want there to be the ability to drag and drop files and not just content.
00:35:21
◼
►
Right? Like files is a, is a really important one.
00:35:25
◼
►
and I do foresee a world in which drag and drop is launched without that
00:35:31
◼
►
and it's just content to start, like I can see that
00:35:34
◼
►
but I really hope that they do the whole shebang
00:35:37
◼
►
I want to come back to the developers though
00:35:39
◼
►
this is the risk for me, this is the real risk point about
00:35:43
◼
►
if they're going to do this right, there needs to be APIs
00:35:47
◼
►
and as you say, would require explicit adoption
00:35:50
◼
►
application developers would need to write the stuff to make this happen
00:35:53
◼
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this happen so content can be shared from app to app.
00:35:57
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You know, and like with document pickers,
00:35:59
◼
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applications can say what types of files they can accept
00:36:02
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and stuff like that.
00:36:04
◼
►
If you look at Split View, and how long it took companies
00:36:08
◼
►
to adopt Split View, if at all, with their iPad apps,
00:36:12
◼
►
this is where I start to worry about the adoption rates
00:36:15
◼
►
for these types of features.
00:36:17
◼
►
- Well, the good news maybe is that
00:36:22
◼
►
while Split View was a massive problem for some companies such as Google that relied on
00:36:28
◼
►
custom interface frameworks and had to redraw their entire UIs and to make them work and support
00:36:38
◼
►
the size classes on iPad. Whereas I think if Apple wants to do a drag and drop API they should take
00:36:46
◼
►
most of the work away from the developers. So Apple should have their own system, their own language
00:36:52
◼
►
that can understand content types. So there needs to be a system that the developer doesn't have to
00:37:00
◼
►
build it. The developer needs to be able to say "look, this is some text, there you go, do whatever
00:37:05
◼
►
you want with it" or "this is a text field in my app, it supports rich text and plain text, now I'm
00:37:12
◼
►
I'm just gonna wait for some text to be dropped and then I'm gonna take care of that.
00:37:16
◼
►
But the system that lets two apps communicate, that needs to be provided by Apple.
00:37:22
◼
►
And so in theory, at least in my mind, I'm not a developer and I'm just trying to make reasonable assumptions as to how this could work.
00:37:34
◼
►
But I imagine there should be a layer in the middle that is made by Apple that says,
00:37:40
◼
►
"Well, I'm looking at an image right now, and it's a photo that comes from Safari, it's a JPEG, it's a two megabyte object,
00:37:48
◼
►
and on this other end there's a text editor, and the user is about to drop an image into a text editor. What do I do?"
00:37:56
◼
►
the system, the API provided by Apple and iOS should say, well, you know, an image cannot be plain text.
00:38:04
◼
►
So I'm just going to assume that maybe the user wants to insert the link to the image from the web,
00:38:10
◼
►
or maybe if the image is not, you know, a photo from a web page, but what if it's a photo from an email client,
00:38:16
◼
►
it doesn't have a link, well, let's just use the file name of the image in plain text.
00:38:21
◼
►
So this abstraction, this communication, this translation occurring between two apps, that
00:38:26
◼
►
must be done by Apple and that shouldn't be work that the developers need to account for.
00:38:32
◼
►
But still, there should be an API for developers to integrate with this and that is where your
00:38:38
◼
►
concern might come in.
00:38:40
◼
►
How long is it going to take Google to allow users to select some text in Google Docs and
00:38:45
◼
►
drop it into Apple Mail?
00:38:49
◼
►
Or is Microsoft gonna take two months
00:38:52
◼
►
to enable dropping of images and videos into OneNote?
00:38:56
◼
►
That I'm afraid I cannot answer for you.
00:39:00
◼
►
- I think the idea of having a piece of content
00:39:03
◼
►
and then manipulating the OS underneath it
00:39:06
◼
►
is really interesting.
00:39:07
◼
►
On the Mac, you can click down and have a text document
00:39:12
◼
►
and then, I'm looking at my keyboard,
00:39:15
◼
►
You can hit F3 to go into Mission Control and then drag that piece of content on top
00:39:19
◼
►
of any open app and if it can open it then it opens it and if it can't then it can't
00:39:27
◼
►
but this is an area where they can break from the phone.
00:39:31
◼
►
The phone is one app at a time and most of the time one handed but the iPad is not that
00:39:38
◼
►
You can have it on your desk or you can have it in the keyboard case and you can use both
00:39:42
◼
►
hands with it.
00:39:43
◼
►
I think it's a really interesting example of taking something from the desktop world
00:39:48
◼
►
and the fundamentals are the same, but changing the interaction so it's touch native.
00:39:55
◼
►
And I don't know, I like that you led with this in the article because I think it's the
00:39:58
◼
►
best example of that.
00:40:00
◼
►
Something we all understand and know and use every day on our computers that run desktop
00:40:04
◼
►
OSes, but our computers that run mobile OSes, we can't do it, and a way to kind of bridge
00:40:09
◼
►
that divide.
00:40:10
◼
►
I think you've done a good job explaining it and showing it in the video for sure.
00:40:14
◼
►
Yeah, and look, this is stuff again that it's going to sound so obvious to long-time Mac users or Windows users
00:40:21
◼
►
that DOS is able to account for those scenarios where the drag and drop leads you to unexpected places,
00:40:27
◼
►
such as dropping an image into an address bar or doing some conversions from rich text to plain text.
00:40:35
◼
►
This is obvious on Mac OS, but it still hasn't been done on iOS.
00:40:40
◼
►
And it will require so many additions.
00:40:43
◼
►
Even if you simply consider rich text
00:40:46
◼
►
that doesn't have a real framework on iOS
00:40:49
◼
►
and that still cannot handle basic stuff
00:40:51
◼
►
like let me paste a table in an email client
00:40:55
◼
►
or allow me to keep my formatting
00:40:58
◼
►
as I copy and paste text between apps.
00:41:00
◼
►
So there's so much work that Apple should be doing here.
00:41:05
◼
►
And that could be the reason why it's taking them two years
00:41:07
◼
►
because it's a very complex system.
00:41:09
◼
►
It's a very complex feature and I assume it's gonna be a very complex API, but it's not impossible.
00:41:16
◼
►
It's been done before.
00:41:17
◼
►
It could be updated for the era of touch and multi-touch especially.
00:41:23
◼
►
And even if you look, for example, this is a footnote in my story, but Apple just acquired
00:41:31
◼
►
a company that made an app based on an engine called Content Graph that its very main feature
00:41:38
◼
►
was I'm able to understand multiple content types and to automatically translate them.
00:41:45
◼
►
And that was the core feature of Workflow. Now, I don't think that Workflow was acquired
00:41:50
◼
►
to power drag and drop, but it sure is nice to have the expertise of a team now at Apple
00:41:56
◼
►
that truly understands this stuff.
00:42:00
◼
►
So you took drag and drop one step further than you did last year with the idea of the
00:42:06
◼
►
shelf? What is the shelf? So the idea is the shelf is a temporary place to hold
00:42:13
◼
►
something for later and this super generic description is meant to be
00:42:19
◼
►
generic because the shelf is not meant to be an app or a location in iCloud
00:42:26
◼
►
Drive. Think about this, when you use drag and drop on the Mac and you want to
00:42:31
◼
►
quickly store something for later because you don't know right away where
00:42:35
◼
►
whether it's text or a photo or a link, should go. Usually most people, I would argue,
00:42:42
◼
►
they just drop it onto the desktop or anywhere else in the Finder. And that's a
00:42:47
◼
►
great feature of the Mac because you can just take something and be "okay I'm not
00:42:51
◼
►
sure what to do with it, I just know that I'm gonna need it later at some point, so
00:42:55
◼
►
let me just drop it there". It's like leaving something on the table as a
00:42:58
◼
►
reminder. And if you consider bringing drag-and-drop to iOS, it just made sense
00:43:04
◼
►
to me to have this kind of transient dock, if you will, where you can just drop stuff and take care of it later.
00:43:15
◼
►
So we imagined this feature as you start drag and drop, you select something and you start dragging.
00:43:23
◼
►
But if you go over the upper section of the screen, there's this shelf that comes down and reveals all of these slots.
00:43:33
◼
►
slots. It's like a tray where you can drop stuff and you drop an item, the shelf closes again,
00:43:40
◼
►
and now that item has been temporarily archived. Now, you know, maybe a few minutes pass, maybe a
00:43:45
◼
►
couple of hours pass, you remember that you clipped an item into the shelf, now you're writing an
00:43:50
◼
►
email message, you need that PDF or that image again, just open the shelf with a three-finger
00:43:55
◼
►
swipe, you grab the item again and you bring it into your email message or pages document or,
00:44:02
◼
►
you know, note, whatever. It's a way to sort of marry the simplicity of drag and drop with a way to
00:44:11
◼
►
taking the burden of having to decide right now where something should go from the user.
00:44:21
◼
►
It's a way to let them quickly archive, store, whatever you want to define it for later,
00:44:28
◼
►
and take it back when they need it.
00:44:30
◼
►
And I'm not sure that this is something that Apple is going to do this year,
00:44:35
◼
►
but I continue to think that it makes sense to me
00:44:39
◼
►
to have something like this to help you doing drag and drop on iOS.
00:44:43
◼
►
Because there's no desktop, there's a home screen,
00:44:45
◼
►
but do you really want stuff on your home screen?
00:44:47
◼
►
I think a shelf would be much more elegant.
00:44:50
◼
►
Yeah, I really like the fact that you can,
00:44:52
◼
►
you know, the idea that you would be able to access it anywhere
00:44:56
◼
►
with the three-finger swipe.
00:44:57
◼
►
I think that's a really, really key part of it.
00:45:00
◼
►
- Yeah, and again, it's taking an idea,
00:45:05
◼
►
but updating it, right?
00:45:07
◼
►
Something like DragThing,
00:45:10
◼
►
or you can even do this with Apple's dock, kind of.
00:45:14
◼
►
- Kind of, yeah.
00:45:15
◼
►
- Or a lot of people, like I do,
00:45:16
◼
►
have folders in their dock,
00:45:18
◼
►
so I have Dropbox and I have downloads in my folders,
00:45:21
◼
►
in my dock, and I quickly get things in and out of them.
00:45:26
◼
►
But yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of a complaint I have now with iOS.
00:45:30
◼
►
And I've spoken with this before that if I go to make a PDF to upload to the web,
00:45:33
◼
►
I've got to put it somewhere, right?
00:45:35
◼
►
I've got to upload to iCloud or exact sentence of Dropbox or put it in documents.
00:45:40
◼
►
Like I got to put it somewhere.
00:45:41
◼
►
And if this is a way to kind of like stick a file somewhere temporarily and
00:45:46
◼
►
then come back and get it, it can make that workflow much faster without having
00:45:49
◼
►
to go out to the document provider and then back in.
00:45:53
◼
►
And I think absolutely if drag and drop
00:45:56
◼
►
and these other features are coming,
00:45:59
◼
►
this is sort of part of it,
00:46:00
◼
►
it's part of the same system of,
00:46:03
◼
►
hey, I've got something, I need to move it somewhere.
00:46:05
◼
►
And sometimes that means I need a temporary resting place,
00:46:07
◼
►
like you said. - Yes.
00:46:08
◼
►
- Sometimes I don't know quite where it's going.
00:46:10
◼
►
Or for me, I keep my desktop very clean right now.
00:46:15
◼
►
The only thing on it is a text file
00:46:18
◼
►
where I'm keeping up with titles for the show
00:46:20
◼
►
since we're not live this week.
00:46:22
◼
►
It's the only thing on it.
00:46:22
◼
►
And I know that because it's on my desktop it's important and when I'm done with it it
00:46:26
◼
►
will go away.
00:46:27
◼
►
And I think some people would use the shelf like I do, like I use my desktop.
00:46:31
◼
►
And other people of course are going to have 10,000 things in it so Apple needs to make
00:46:34
◼
►
sure that it scales better than iMessage apps did last year.
00:46:37
◼
►
But it's a really interesting idea to have a space in iOS as a little temporary holding
00:46:43
◼
►
bin that you can come back to later.
00:46:45
◼
►
Yeah, and we try to think of ways to minimize management.
00:46:51
◼
►
So for example, we imagined you could tap on an item that's been already saved in the
00:46:56
◼
►
shelf to maybe have a quick look preview of the item before saying, "Well, I know that
00:47:02
◼
►
I clipped this PDF, but what's it really about again?"
00:47:05
◼
►
So you can just tap it again, you see a preview, and then you can decide what to do.
00:47:09
◼
►
Or for example, if you saved a location or like an address from Apple Maps, you could
00:47:14
◼
►
preview the location directly from the shelf with a tiny, quick look model preview, and
00:47:20
◼
►
then you could do things and if you follow that idea that maybe developers
00:47:24
◼
►
could provide their own Quick Look extensions. So for example, let's say that
00:47:28
◼
►
I want to add a sheet from Ulysses into the Shelf. Really, what is a sheet?
00:47:33
◼
►
It's not like an open file format. So maybe the Ulysses folks, they could
00:47:37
◼
►
provide a Quick Look extension that says if the user clips a sheet from the app
00:47:42
◼
►
into the Shelf, we can provide our own preview to the Quick Look panel and so
00:47:47
◼
►
the user can still preview the sheet outside of Ulysses and from the shelf
00:47:52
◼
►
and there will be for example a way to expand the shelf and to select all of
00:47:56
◼
►
the items and sort of purge everything and delete all. I try to think of
00:48:01
◼
►
multiple ways to sort of enhance the shelf and to have these little shortcuts
00:48:05
◼
►
without having to make it too complex or too complicated.
00:48:10
◼
►
So one very obvious set of features would be a redesign to the split view app
00:48:16
◼
►
picker which was you know it was an incredible thing like split for you and
00:48:22
◼
►
it still is to a point right like split for you is what made the iPad a viable
00:48:26
◼
►
work machine for me like it brought me to the platform and it keeps me there
00:48:30
◼
►
like as I was right I was writing these show notes in split view right like
00:48:34
◼
►
Google Docs on one side and I had the web browser on another side right like
00:48:38
◼
►
it's exactly what I need right it does if it fills the job but it has a it has
00:48:44
◼
►
some room to grow now that it's kind of gotten a little bit long in the tooth.
00:48:47
◼
►
And this is a list of the enhancements that you suggested from your article.
00:48:53
◼
►
So to be able to arrange the most used applications that you have on a grid, similar to like a
00:48:59
◼
►
mini home screen that would appear when you invoke a split view, an integrated spotlight
00:49:04
◼
►
so you could search for applications or maybe even content, right?
00:49:07
◼
►
So you'd be able to just open that straight up.
00:49:09
◼
►
The picker view could be displayed on either side of the screen, which would be really
00:49:15
◼
►
great so you could pull it in from the left or the right.
00:49:18
◼
►
Recently used applications could be displayed at the bottom of the picker as like cards
00:49:22
◼
►
so it's easier to recent.
00:49:23
◼
►
So what it currently is is basically like a version of recents, right?
00:49:26
◼
►
But to still have that but to minimize it and have also a system where you could choose
00:49:31
◼
►
what you want to be showing.
00:49:33
◼
►
Spring loading for items that are passed via drag and drop.
00:49:36
◼
►
you could drag and drop to something in splitview and it opens the application right you just
00:49:40
◼
►
hover over the app and the splitview picker could be invoked and navigated with an external
00:49:46
◼
►
keyboard I would praise the Lord if they enabled that honestly so this is kind of like a good
00:49:54
◼
►
breakdown of the features and I think this is all of these things are clear to me as
00:50:03
◼
►
they are to you Federico as someone who gets their work done on this device every day to
00:50:07
◼
►
the point where like if we don't get at least most of these I will be really really surprised.
00:50:15
◼
►
Yeah again I try to sort of modernize and think more deeply about what we did last year.
00:50:25
◼
►
This idea of you can have a grid of icons and you can have your recent apps. We already
00:50:30
◼
►
We explored the idea last year, but we tried to make it a little prettier maybe, you know,
00:50:35
◼
►
with the way that the recents go at the bottom, it's like a scrollable tray, and it matches
00:50:39
◼
►
the same order of recent apps from the multitasking switcher, the one that you get if you double
00:50:44
◼
►
click the home button, that would be the same order of recent apps, and then you have this
00:50:48
◼
►
mini home screen that by default I imagine it could be the same layout of the actual
00:50:53
◼
►
home screen, but then you can modify, you can drag items in different order if you want
00:50:57
◼
►
to have a specific placement in Split View, for example.
00:51:00
◼
►
And we try to account even for the potential problems that this concept would have, not
00:51:05
◼
►
just the changes and the good stuff, but also the bad stuff.
00:51:09
◼
►
If you can show the Split View picker on both sides, what happens if you have the same app
00:51:15
◼
►
on two sides?
00:51:16
◼
►
And so we thought maybe if the user already has notes, for example, Apple Notes, open
00:51:21
◼
►
on the left side, and the user opens the Split View picker on the right side, the notes icon
00:51:27
◼
►
should be dimmed, it shouldn't be selectable or tappable because it's
00:51:30
◼
►
already open. So we try to account for all these potential problems and then we
00:51:34
◼
►
thought, you know, it makes sense to support drag and drop with this system.
00:51:38
◼
►
If the user starts dragging and they don't have an app open or they want to
00:51:42
◼
►
switch apps, we have multi-touch, we have drag and drop, why not, you know, bring in
00:51:46
◼
►
drag and drop to the Split View Picker? So we thought there should be two ways to
00:51:51
◼
►
do this. Either you drop something into an app icon and then the app provides a
00:51:55
◼
►
quick action menu or you spring load the app icon and the app opens and you
00:52:01
◼
►
scroll to whatever you want to drop an item into. And the quick action
00:52:05
◼
►
idea is we add in the video an example. You select some bullet list from an
00:52:12
◼
►
email message. So by the way we came up with this concept of the video. It's
00:52:17
◼
►
about planning a vacation to Barcelona. We had the idea of instead of showing a
00:52:22
◼
►
bunch of distinct standalone features. Let's try to have like a day in the life
00:52:27
◼
►
sort of theme for the video. So we're showing someone how the better iPad
00:52:33
◼
►
software could help this family plan a vacation to Barcelona. And so at some
00:52:38
◼
►
point in the video there's this email message and a member of the family is
00:52:42
◼
►
reminding everyone to bring sunscreen and the iPhone charger and the adapter
00:52:47
◼
►
cable and so we show the user selecting those lines of text, dropping them on
00:52:52
◼
►
onto the Reminders icon in the Split View Picker.
00:52:55
◼
►
And Reminders parses these lines of text
00:52:58
◼
►
and shows a quick action menu that says,
00:53:00
◼
►
I found four items.
00:53:02
◼
►
Do you want to add those four new reminders to your list?
00:53:06
◼
►
So it's stuff like that, you know,
00:53:08
◼
►
to enhance the Split View Picker,
00:53:11
◼
►
not just with the redesign interface,
00:53:12
◼
►
but also with support for other system features,
00:53:15
◼
►
whether it's drag and drop or extensions
00:53:17
◼
►
or, you know, keyboard navigation.
00:53:20
◼
►
I think if Apple does this,
00:53:21
◼
►
they should just support everything because,
00:53:24
◼
►
especially for iPad Pro, it's right there in the name.
00:53:27
◼
►
You want to help pro users, this is how you help pro users.
00:53:30
◼
►
- All right, let's take our second break for this week
00:53:34
◼
►
and thank SMILE for their support of this show.
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from Smile for their support of this show. So Federico, finder on iOS. This is a bold
00:55:51
◼
►
>> Yeah. I think that, you know, there's people that say the iPad or iOS really, they don't
00:56:00
◼
►
need a file system and I think that idea sort of lost all of its value years ago
00:56:05
◼
►
when Apple brought the new document picker and the document
00:56:09
◼
►
providers and the iCloud Drive app to iOS because right now if you look at
00:56:14
◼
►
your iPad or your iPhone and iOS 10 you already have a file system it's just
00:56:17
◼
►
different from the Mac you don't have of course desktop you don't have Windows
00:56:22
◼
►
but you do have a way to organize files and folders you know you have you can
00:56:27
◼
►
create subfolders and you can use apps as storage locations. So you can use
00:56:32
◼
►
Dropbox as a native provider in the document picker, you can switch back and
00:56:37
◼
►
forth between different locations. You do have a file system, it's just way too
00:56:42
◼
►
simple and way too fragmented right now to be as powerful as the Mac. And my
00:56:48
◼
►
argument is Apple should not just copy the Mac's Finder because there are so
00:56:53
◼
►
many, at least from my perspective, so many problems with the Max Finder. The
00:56:57
◼
►
way that the view settings are all kinds of weird and really the
00:57:01
◼
►
problems of people going to delete files into places where they're not supposed
00:57:06
◼
►
to look at. But I think there's also plenty of good stuff that Apple should
00:57:10
◼
►
borrow from the file manager that they created decades ago and that should,
00:57:16
◼
►
it would make absolute sense, especially on the iPad. I think the main
00:57:21
◼
►
idea that I try to convey in the video and the article is the finder should be
00:57:26
◼
►
a unified place for everything. It should be a single place for iCalDrive, for
00:57:30
◼
►
local storage, for storage locations from apps, and for document providers. And in
00:57:38
◼
►
fact I also wrote in the story I believe Apple should discontinue document
00:57:43
◼
►
providers such as Dropbox or Google Drive as you know separate places. They
00:57:49
◼
►
should be just finder extensions. On the Mac or Apple already has this kind of
00:57:53
◼
►
system it's called finder sync and it's an extension that allows apps to modify
00:57:58
◼
►
the native finder behavior and I think if Apple wants to do a native file
00:58:01
◼
►
manager on iOS just unify all of these different bits that you already have but
00:58:07
◼
►
make them easier and more powerful and let them integrate safely and natively
00:58:13
◼
►
with the finder. So for example Dropbox could be you know a top-level destination
00:58:18
◼
►
in the Finder and use their own sync, use their own badges to indicate
00:58:23
◼
►
status and have native sharing features. Or people could use iCloud Drive,
00:58:28
◼
►
which would be the default location in the Finder. iCloud Drive should receive
00:58:33
◼
►
sharing, should receive tags, permission control and all of the good
00:58:37
◼
►
stuff from the Mac should also be available on iOS. And finally, just make a
00:58:44
◼
►
a decent interface. If you look at iCalll Drive right now, the app, which is the file
00:58:49
◼
►
manager from Apple on iOS now, it is terrible. It's awful. It's, I believe, the worst app
00:58:54
◼
►
that Apple released on iOS so far. The extension update that they did with iOS 10, I still
00:59:01
◼
►
cannot believe that it shipped, and it's up right there with the split view picker in
00:59:04
◼
►
terms of what is the worst stuff we've ever done on iOS. It's the split view picker and
00:59:09
◼
►
the Add to iCloud Drive extension.
00:59:11
◼
►
So, you know, add a serious interface,
00:59:14
◼
►
especially for pro users.
00:59:17
◼
►
Icon view, column view, you know, popovers,
00:59:20
◼
►
pop ups to view more file information.
00:59:23
◼
►
There was, you know, years ago when the iPad was so simple,
00:59:28
◼
►
you know, I'm thinking iPad one or iPad two,
00:59:30
◼
►
there was no split view, no multitasking,
00:59:33
◼
►
no keyboard shortcuts.
00:59:34
◼
►
It made sense to have everything so simple.
00:59:37
◼
►
But now we're at the point where one half of the iPad
00:59:41
◼
►
is meant for pro users.
00:59:43
◼
►
So you have split view, you have keyboard shortcuts,
00:59:45
◼
►
you have pro apps, and there's the other half,
00:59:48
◼
►
which is still for some reason stuck in the past,
00:59:51
◼
►
which is iCloud drive and these document providers.
00:59:54
◼
►
And I think it would make sense to unify everything.
00:59:57
◼
►
And it's kind of sounds like a paradox,
01:00:00
◼
►
but by making it more powerful,
01:00:02
◼
►
it will actually be simpler because it's just one place
01:00:05
◼
►
where people can do anything they want.
01:00:07
◼
►
I think too this could be a stage for them to build other things upon. So things
01:00:12
◼
►
like USB or network storage, right? We talked ages ago about you can put an SD
01:00:17
◼
►
card in and pull photos off of it but pulling audio files like from a mobile
01:00:21
◼
►
recorder is a lot more difficult and if you're gonna go through the trouble of
01:00:26
◼
►
building something like this then have those things enabled, right? So I can
01:00:32
◼
►
easily browse other things on my network. So if I have a Mac server somewhere I
01:00:38
◼
►
can browse that on my network and pull a file from it and then put it in iCloud
01:00:41
◼
►
Drive on my iPad. Like make the iPad aware of the world around it a little
01:00:45
◼
►
bit more as far as storage goes. Because right now the only way to do that is to
01:00:49
◼
►
use something like Dropbox or iCloud Drive to copy it there and then let that
01:00:52
◼
►
cloud service take care of it for you. Where really a lot of people I think
01:00:57
◼
►
just have files on their computer that they may want on their iPad and and not
01:01:01
◼
►
deal with like the desktop and document syncing they put into macOS Sierra which
01:01:06
◼
►
is like buggy and weird and if you get it wrong can go terribly sideways on you
01:01:10
◼
►
but it's like make this thing extensible in a way that is useful to all sorts of
01:01:15
◼
►
different types of setups. Yeah I completely agree like the idea of being
01:01:22
◼
►
able to have access to all of these files and they kind of all have parity
01:01:27
◼
►
and that they can all be in there right from all my document providers that is
01:01:31
◼
►
exciting to me as an idea.
01:01:33
◼
►
You know, like even if, like, I don't know if,
01:01:36
◼
►
how this kind of thing would work,
01:01:37
◼
►
but like if applications, I wonder,
01:01:38
◼
►
well like applications can't be document providers.
01:01:42
◼
►
You know, like maybe that's getting a bit too
01:01:45
◼
►
weird and complicated.
01:01:47
◼
►
I mean, you can use like, you can pull stuff in and out
01:01:50
◼
►
of like the documents app or--
01:01:52
◼
►
- Okay, so let me say, more of them should be then, right?
01:01:55
◼
►
- Yeah. - 'Cause it's like,
01:01:56
◼
►
for example, I had something in Word, I needed to get it.
01:02:00
◼
►
And it was like word should be a document provider. Yeah.
01:02:02
◼
►
So I can grab out a word.
01:02:03
◼
►
So maybe that would be like an interesting way to do it. Right.
01:02:06
◼
►
Where like the iCloud portion of it or something like that,
01:02:09
◼
►
you just go into each application or whatever and grab the files out of them.
01:02:13
◼
►
But that could be a bit weird, but yeah. Okay. So there you go. Today I learned,
01:02:16
◼
►
I thought that there had to be like always like a cloud service.
01:02:19
◼
►
No, there's just not, there's not many apps that have done it.
01:02:22
◼
►
I mean to your bigger point of developers don't always adopt the stuff quickly.
01:02:27
◼
►
I can count probably on one hand of the apps I've come across to do this.
01:02:30
◼
►
Yeah, and really because the API can be so weird for doing the document stuff.
01:02:36
◼
►
And for years it's been so flaky with so many bugs I've been talking to developers.
01:02:40
◼
►
Many of the features that Apple released with iOS 8 had problems that weren't fixed until
01:02:45
◼
►
later in the iOS 8 cycle or in iOS 9 really.
01:02:49
◼
►
And so I think if Apple is going to do this there needs to be a new API and they need
01:02:53
◼
►
to stop with doing this system of, here you go with document picker, now you need to select
01:03:02
◼
►
one from these destinations.
01:03:04
◼
►
So you can go into this single interface and do whatever you want, but then if you exit,
01:03:09
◼
►
you lose the file that you selected.
01:03:11
◼
►
So I think Apple solved these problems years ago on the Mac with the Finder, but there's
01:03:17
◼
►
also the counterargument of the Finder is too difficult to use for most people, which
01:03:21
◼
►
I do believe it's true to an extent and so there should be a middle ground maybe.
01:03:26
◼
►
Not as simple and not as limiting as what we have now in iOS but
01:03:32
◼
►
maybe not as complex as it is on the Mac. For example I imagine in iOS 11 if
01:03:39
◼
►
you try to open a document it shouldn't be presented with the iCalc Drive
01:03:43
◼
►
interface by default and then you gotta tap on the locations button if you want
01:03:47
◼
►
to drill into document providers. You should just have a finder with
01:03:51
◼
►
sidebar that opens, kind of like the open file dialog on the Mac, and you have the
01:03:56
◼
►
sidebar, you can choose, well, do I want to go into iCloud Drive or Dropbox, and you
01:04:00
◼
►
can just tap once to change locations. You can have stuff like favorite apps or
01:04:05
◼
►
favorite folders, and you can just dig down and pick the file that you want, and
01:04:10
◼
►
that's it. You don't need to tap 10,000 times to change between three
01:04:15
◼
►
destinations you can just navigate across this finder UI and so I think
01:04:23
◼
►
there should be a new extension system there should be a new API and apps really
01:04:28
◼
►
should be able to more easily open documents and data from each other. Right
01:04:34
◼
►
now it is possible for example if you have a text editor like Unisys you can
01:04:39
◼
►
open and edit a file from Working Copy, which is a GitHub client.
01:04:46
◼
►
It's already possible today on iOS 10 to say I have this app and I want to open
01:04:52
◼
►
and edit a file from another app, but it's so cumbersome and it's so slow, it
01:04:57
◼
►
should be easier and it should be done anywhere. And I believe a
01:05:01
◼
►
better interface is the first step. The second one would be make that interface,
01:05:05
◼
►
make the file manager available anywhere. So I suppose there's going to be a finder
01:05:09
◼
►
app on the home screen, like a whole layer done by Apple, and there should also be a new picker in
01:05:14
◼
►
every app which is defined their UI. Make it accessible, work with developers, work with companies like
01:05:20
◼
►
Dropbox and Microsoft, I don't want to say Google Drive because you know, Google, but try to understand
01:05:27
◼
►
the needs of pro users on iOS and make the kind of interface that wouldn't be as difficult as it is on the Mac,
01:05:33
◼
►
would be much better than what we have today.
01:05:38
◼
►
So you also took a look at overall iOS design and you have some thoughts on
01:05:44
◼
►
maybe some messages that Apple has sent in recent versions of iOS?
01:05:50
◼
►
We tried to take a look at what Apple did last year with Apple Music and with some changes in
01:05:58
◼
►
Apple Maps and going back to my iOS 10 review, there was a point where I said there are multiple
01:06:05
◼
►
design languages coexisting in iOS 10 today.
01:06:09
◼
►
And I still think that is true.
01:06:10
◼
►
If you look at, you know, not just icons, but really the use of cards, the use of buttons
01:06:19
◼
►
across apps like Safari and Mail, and then you look at Apple Music and Apple Maps and
01:06:23
◼
►
Apple News, they look like apps from two different companies.
01:06:28
◼
►
And I think, you know, this year I think we'll see a refresh of the iOS 11 interface.
01:06:34
◼
►
I don't know if it's going to be a groundbreaking major redesign like iOS 7 was, but I think
01:06:39
◼
►
there will be some new consistency.
01:06:41
◼
►
And so we try to imagine what that consistency means.
01:06:45
◼
►
And we didn't spend a lot of time on the design concept just because I prefer myself to focus
01:06:51
◼
►
on features and functionality.
01:06:54
◼
►
But I imagine toolbar icons could be thicker, could be easier to see and to spot at a glance.
01:07:01
◼
►
could be contextual animations on icons that are associated with actions. So the
01:07:07
◼
►
video opens with a possible redesign of the Apple Notes app with
01:07:13
◼
►
these thicker icons that sort of blend the current iOS style with the
01:07:20
◼
►
watchOS styles. When you tap on an icon you get this little highlight on the
01:07:25
◼
►
on the button and the icon also animates which is kind of reminiscent of the
01:07:30
◼
►
material style from Google, I guess. And it's a way to add context and to make it more accessible,
01:07:36
◼
►
you know, to have these button shapes around icons. I think there's a lot that Apple could
01:07:40
◼
►
do to sort of liven up the iOS UI to make it more contextual, to make it more accessible,
01:07:46
◼
►
and to make it more fun, which I think it's important, you know, to make it fun. Even if
01:07:51
◼
►
it's a pro app, I think it's important to give it some personality. And after looking, I know
01:07:56
◼
►
I know that after looking at the icons that we did for Safari for Apple Notes,
01:08:00
◼
►
I went back and looked at the actual icons in Safari on iOS 10,
01:08:04
◼
►
and they looked so old to me.
01:08:06
◼
►
And I'm biased, of course, because it's our concept.
01:08:10
◼
►
But I would love to see the Apple Music and the Apple Maps,
01:08:13
◼
►
the Apple News style be more consistent throughout the entire iOS 11.
01:08:21
◼
►
And then also you kind of rounded up some smaller features
01:08:24
◼
►
that were interesting to me.
01:08:26
◼
►
And the idea, one of them is that the share sheet
01:08:28
◼
►
kind of needs some work.
01:08:30
◼
►
And you spoke about, you know,
01:08:32
◼
►
as well as just making it a little bit better
01:08:35
◼
►
to view what's going on,
01:08:37
◼
►
you also kind of had an idea of breaking extensions
01:08:41
◼
►
outside of the share sheet as well.
01:08:43
◼
►
- Yeah, this is probably one of the toughest sells
01:08:48
◼
►
from this concept, which is,
01:08:51
◼
►
Right now, if you want to use an extension, whether it's a Share extension or an Action type one,
01:08:57
◼
►
you need to go through the Share sheet.
01:08:58
◼
►
There's always this middle step of, "Okay, I know what I want to do, but first I need to tap the Share icon
01:09:05
◼
►
and I need to scroll this list of extensions and pick the one that I want."
01:09:09
◼
►
And this slows you down a lot, especially if you use the same extension every time.
01:09:14
◼
►
You just need to go through this middle step every time.
01:09:19
◼
►
So I imagine, what if you could use, again, drag and drop to select an extension and manually
01:09:26
◼
►
drop it into a toolbar or an area of an app where you can drop in extensions.
01:09:32
◼
►
So I imagine, for example, having a 1Password icon in the Safari toolbar, so every time
01:09:38
◼
►
you need to log into a webpage, you don't need to open the share sheet and then find
01:09:42
◼
►
1Password, you can just tap on 1Password in the toolbar.
01:09:46
◼
►
It's like the Mac, but done in a way that it combines the current system with possible
01:09:51
◼
►
drag and drop and it would save you a lot of time.
01:09:55
◼
►
But on the other hand, it would also require developers to support this feature.
01:10:00
◼
►
I would assume developers would have to provide an icon for toolbars or for other interface
01:10:06
◼
►
areas where extensions could be dropped.
01:10:09
◼
►
And there's the argument to be made about, you know, by removing a step, you're possibly
01:10:16
◼
►
opening up the system to potential damage caused by the users.
01:10:20
◼
►
Because what if you accidentally tap on a workflow extension and something happens and
01:10:25
◼
►
you didn't have the middle step of the sharesheet to save you?
01:10:29
◼
►
So it's a trade-off, you know.
01:10:32
◼
►
But I think it could be done in a way that, you know, you make it so that only the user
01:10:37
◼
►
via drag and drop can bookmark, can mark an extension as a favorite.
01:10:42
◼
►
And so it wouldn't be done by the system that suddenly you have your toolbar filled with icons,
01:10:47
◼
►
you know, in the worst Windows nightmare from the old era.
01:10:52
◼
►
It would be done by the user manually every time.
01:10:55
◼
►
And I think, you know, for example, you could have an OmniFocus extension directly in Safari,
01:11:03
◼
►
or you could have something like a Todoist extension
01:11:07
◼
►
right in the mail UI.
01:11:10
◼
►
It's a way to make the share sheet more extensible
01:11:13
◼
►
and faster combining it with drag and drop.
01:11:17
◼
►
But I don't know if Apple likes this idea
01:11:21
◼
►
or has played around with this idea.
01:11:23
◼
►
- Yeah, this is something that I would want
01:11:25
◼
►
in some of my applications,
01:11:26
◼
►
but I think of everything that you pose in the video
01:11:29
◼
►
and in the article,
01:11:31
◼
►
this feels like the least likely to happen for me.
01:11:34
◼
►
Like I really struggled to imagine Apple
01:11:38
◼
►
allowing the Yahoo tool bar to appear
01:11:42
◼
►
in a bunch of different applications, you know?
01:11:44
◼
►
- I tend to agree, yeah.
01:11:46
◼
►
And I think for that reason, because it puts,
01:11:49
◼
►
the share sheet can, for all of its trouble,
01:11:52
◼
►
is kind of hidden away, right?
01:11:54
◼
►
And if you don't ever go in there
01:11:56
◼
►
or you don't enable a bunch of apps,
01:11:58
◼
►
you don't know how messy it can get.
01:11:59
◼
►
But to put that stuff like front and center
01:12:02
◼
►
in Apple's UI Chrome doesn't seem like something
01:12:06
◼
►
they're going to do.
01:12:07
◼
►
I mean, even though they do it on the Mac,
01:12:09
◼
►
but I think that on iOS with less space and sort of more
01:12:14
◼
►
flexibility in the UI, I just don't quite
01:12:16
◼
►
see it happening there.
01:12:19
◼
►
So you touch on the home screen becoming denser,
01:12:21
◼
►
which I completely agree with, right?
01:12:23
◼
►
Like filling up that home screen a little bit more.
01:12:26
◼
►
You spoke about multiple audio streams,
01:12:28
◼
►
which is something that we've spoken about a bunch of times on this show.
01:12:31
◼
►
I don't think we need to rehash that, right?
01:12:33
◼
►
Like the idea of a new audio framework that can allow for simultaneous audio streams so
01:12:38
◼
►
you could, you know, you could have a video playing and be listening to something else
01:12:41
◼
►
or you could, as we want, record a Skype call or a VoIP call or a FaceTime call so we could
01:12:47
◼
►
finally do podcasting on iOS.
01:12:49
◼
►
If that happens Federico won't need to buy a new Mac Pro after all.
01:12:52
◼
►
That's very true.
01:12:53
◼
►
I could just use my iPad and iOS 11.
01:12:57
◼
►
I think it makes a lot of sense not just for podcasters but for musicians.
01:13:01
◼
►
You know, anyone who works with mixing apps that deal with multiple audio streams.
01:13:06
◼
►
Right now they usually have to rely on stuff like Audio Bus, for example, to get audio
01:13:11
◼
►
streams from multiple apps into a single interface and editing UI.
01:13:15
◼
►
And I think that should be done at a system level.
01:13:17
◼
►
There should be an API that deals with, you know, there's multiple streams occurring now
01:13:22
◼
►
and you can control them.
01:13:24
◼
►
be a control center maybe in another way but there should be at least support at
01:13:28
◼
►
an API level for developers to be able to have multiple sessions, audio
01:13:33
◼
►
sessions going at the same time. Yeah. Maybe a little bit more versatility and
01:13:39
◼
►
love shown to Notes.app like for example you pose and like the ability to
01:13:44
◼
►
use the Apple Pencil anywhere in the application to just draw wherever you
01:13:47
◼
►
want as opposed to entering drawing mode and then having this little image popped
01:13:51
◼
►
in which is a little bit hacky when you think about it especially you know you look at other
01:13:55
◼
►
applications like good notes or notability right you can you can do this with their applications
01:14:00
◼
►
and also more sharing options like support for sharing entire folders and plus I mean
01:14:08
◼
►
I would like to see the sharing stuff improved it's a little bit janky like a couple of days
01:14:13
◼
►
ago me and Adina were sharing a note and I was like I'll press the airdrop button to
01:14:17
◼
►
to share this note.
01:14:18
◼
►
When you do it, you still have to enter contact information.
01:14:22
◼
►
I don't think, Apple, I don't think you know what AirDrop is.
01:14:25
◼
►
It's a little bit weird.
01:14:27
◼
►
- That's such a weird thing.
01:14:30
◼
►
I mean, maybe it's like a two-step,
01:14:31
◼
►
like you don't accidentally AirDrop a private note
01:14:34
◼
►
to someone on the subway, but it's--
01:14:35
◼
►
- Yeah, but that's your, you know,
01:14:36
◼
►
I mean, that's your problem, right?
01:14:38
◼
►
Like, click the right button.
01:14:40
◼
►
- No mercy in the UI.
01:14:46
◼
►
Yeah, I think the drawing mode, the problem there would be for people like you, Myke,
01:14:54
◼
►
to add freeform drawing would mean you cannot control the interface with a pencil.
01:15:01
◼
►
That's the big problem here.
01:15:03
◼
►
I mean, I use applications like GoodNotes and Notability, right?
01:15:07
◼
►
And there's a few ways you can do this.
01:15:08
◼
►
You can press a button, right?
01:15:11
◼
►
Like you can press the pen button and then you just start drawing.
01:15:15
◼
►
But also in applications that have a notes component to them, I'm mostly okay with the
01:15:21
◼
►
fact that I use my finger and then use the Apple Pencil.
01:15:24
◼
►
Let me scroll the list, but when I'm in the content of the note, like if I touch my Apple
01:15:29
◼
►
Pencil to the page and it draws something, I'm mostly okay with that.
01:15:33
◼
►
I understand that.
01:15:36
◼
►
Most applications solve this by having you press a button, which will then kind of enable
01:15:39
◼
►
pencil mode.
01:15:40
◼
►
And then you can draw and you can use your finger.
01:15:43
◼
►
And then when you click it again you can choose the pencil to navigate.
01:15:48
◼
►
So there's an item here in the notes and it just says that I have a confession.
01:15:54
◼
►
And now I sort of regret putting this in here because...
01:15:58
◼
►
No go ahead.
01:15:59
◼
►
Now I feel I have to come clean.
01:16:00
◼
►
I feel like I know what it is.
01:16:02
◼
►
I should confess.
01:16:03
◼
►
Myke probably can guess what it is.
01:16:05
◼
►
Steven, do you have a desire for work chat?
01:16:08
◼
►
I have my Notes at Evernote right now.
01:16:12
◼
►
this to me again. Why? Two big reasons and one of them you go into in your
01:16:18
◼
►
article Federico that folders and subfolders in notes on iOS is like a
01:16:23
◼
►
mess and you can't you can't you can't create them there at all right now and I
01:16:28
◼
►
ran into an issue which is one issue I switch is I use notes I use folders and
01:16:32
◼
►
subfolders and notes pretty heavily and the notes application on iOS would not
01:16:37
◼
►
and the Mac would not ever save what folders were open and not so I'd go in
01:16:43
◼
►
to look for something and I have to like tap into a folder tap into the sub
01:16:46
◼
►
folder kind of the opposite problem of iCloud Drive where everything's always
01:16:49
◼
►
expanded and it really it was like a small thing but just a graded me
01:16:54
◼
►
endlessly but I also have a lot of notes that have multiple attachments in them
01:17:01
◼
►
so I like have some text and have a screenshot and have some more text and
01:17:04
◼
►
and then a PDF and some more text in the screenshot.
01:17:06
◼
►
And Notes was just slowly breaking down for me in that.
01:17:10
◼
►
It does a good job at handling attachments
01:17:12
◼
►
and you have the attachment view,
01:17:14
◼
►
which is actually pretty nice,
01:17:16
◼
►
but I just kind of became increasingly frustrated
01:17:19
◼
►
with some of the way those things were laid out
01:17:22
◼
►
and some of the lack of text control
01:17:25
◼
►
and some other things in there.
01:17:27
◼
►
And so I started by just moving one notebook into Evernote
01:17:31
◼
►
and I have to say all the problems
01:17:32
◼
►
are still there, but they have done a really good job
01:17:36
◼
►
at making it easier to work around,
01:17:38
◼
►
and so you can completely turn off stuff you don't want,
01:17:41
◼
►
and the syncing's really good.
01:17:42
◼
►
And I've been in here like six weeks,
01:17:44
◼
►
and honestly, like, things are pretty good.
01:17:47
◼
►
And one thing I'd forgotten that I really liked,
01:17:50
◼
►
and one thing that I would like to see Apple address
01:17:52
◼
►
in the notes application is some idea of shortcuts.
01:17:56
◼
►
And so I have three notes that I get into,
01:17:59
◼
►
if not every day, at least four or five times a week.
01:18:04
◼
►
And they're buried in subfolders somewhere.
01:18:06
◼
►
And in Notes, I'd have to go and find them or search for it.
01:18:09
◼
►
And I just need to be in there for a quick second
01:18:12
◼
►
just to put something in it and then get out.
01:18:14
◼
►
And Evernote has shortcuts.
01:18:15
◼
►
They sync across all your devices.
01:18:17
◼
►
So I go in, I can enter this one note,
01:18:20
◼
►
add the line of text I need for the day that it is,
01:18:23
◼
►
and then move on.
01:18:23
◼
►
And that speed for that particular use case
01:18:27
◼
►
is really nice in something like Evernote.
01:18:29
◼
►
So we'll see how long it lasts.
01:18:31
◼
►
I'm very, I really hope Apple makes notes more flexible
01:18:35
◼
►
in iOS 11 and in Mac OS 10.13.
01:18:39
◼
►
But for now, like Evernote's been totally great.
01:18:42
◼
►
So, so there.
01:18:44
◼
►
I even, to show you the depths of my shame,
01:18:47
◼
►
someone asked for a screenshot of my iPhone
01:18:50
◼
►
and I hit Evernote and put notes back in place
01:18:53
◼
►
'cause I don't want to get into it.
01:18:53
◼
►
'Cause it's somebody that you two follow
01:18:55
◼
►
and you would see it and then have to come clean to you then.
01:18:57
◼
►
But I've come clean to you now.
01:18:58
◼
►
I've confessed my sins and it feels pretty good to have it off my chest.
01:19:01
◼
►
We don't have time for this today.
01:19:05
◼
►
That's why I did it today.
01:19:06
◼
►
And I am in charge of follow-ups.
01:19:07
◼
►
It's never coming up again.
01:19:09
◼
►
Moving swiftly on.
01:19:11
◼
►
And also, I think the last of the features that I saw you, we're ending on a real high
01:19:17
◼
►
Some improvements to Mail.app?
01:19:20
◼
►
Well, you know, of all the system apps, I think Mail is the one that is the most behind
01:19:28
◼
►
the competition. There are some excellent clients on the App Store these days, especially
01:19:32
◼
►
I feel like after Mailbox went away, it was a chance for other companies to sort of not
01:19:38
◼
►
just rebuild Mailbox but go even beyond. So even if you look at Gmail, Outlook, Spark,
01:19:46
◼
►
Polymail, Newton, Airmail of course, there are so many excellent choices and if you try
01:19:53
◼
►
those apps and then you go back to Apple Mail, it just feels like it's an app from 10 years
01:19:57
◼
►
ago. And Apple hasn't kept up with the pace of innovation, I think, from others.
01:20:02
◼
►
And some features that have become commonplace these days, like you can
01:20:06
◼
►
snooze a message, or you know, you can integrate with apps, you can
01:20:13
◼
►
have saved searches. That kind of stuff is still not available on iOS.
01:20:18
◼
►
So I feel like Apple is failing on two fronts with their mail app. It is not as
01:20:22
◼
►
powerful as their Mac version, which does have features for pro users such as smart
01:20:29
◼
►
folders and rules and all of these other options that are not available on iOS, but they're
01:20:35
◼
►
also not keeping up with others.
01:20:37
◼
►
They're not following what other people are doing with snoozing, for example.
01:20:42
◼
►
And I think it is a chance this year for Apple to sort of redo their mail app to make it
01:20:47
◼
►
faster because it's still so slow if you try to search for a message with a Gmail account,
01:20:52
◼
►
It's kind of terrible.
01:20:54
◼
►
Personally I never can find what I'm looking for in Mail.
01:20:58
◼
►
And they should just extend it and allow developers to integrate with Mail, to bring in apps and
01:21:03
◼
►
to let users more easily and more quickly manage their messages by integrating with
01:21:08
◼
►
apps, by snoozing messages which has become really a de facto standard in email clients
01:21:15
◼
►
and just make it a modern email client because it's been 10 years of iOS and Mail I feel
01:21:21
◼
►
it's the app that has changed the least. I totally agree it really seems like it
01:21:28
◼
►
has been more or less forgotten about and and in the wake of I mean you just
01:21:34
◼
►
riled off on how many apps in the wake of this huge like like clearly people
01:21:39
◼
►
want more right or there wouldn't be a new mail app every day and right now
01:21:45
◼
►
those features are reserved for people who are willing to put up with the pain
01:21:49
◼
►
of having a third-party email client. For a lot of people that pain is worth
01:21:53
◼
►
those features and it really seems like like this seems really low hanging fruit
01:21:58
◼
►
to me. Clearly there's a demand for this. Apple could do it really nicely and with
01:22:03
◼
►
some of the stuff like smart folders they already have it it's on the Mac and
01:22:06
◼
►
and you know bring that to iOS but the search man I'm glad you brought up search
01:22:12
◼
►
the search is so bad. I use a Gmail account and two Google Apps accounts in
01:22:17
◼
►
and mail and I have the Gmail app installed on my iPhone because I need to search something
01:22:22
◼
►
I go to it because 9 times out of 10 mail.app can't find it.
01:22:27
◼
►
That's really sad.
01:22:29
◼
►
The stuff is there.
01:22:32
◼
►
People always point fingers at Google doing non-iMap stuff.
01:22:36
◼
►
The reality is Google is the biggest, if not the biggest, probably one of the biggest email
01:22:41
◼
►
providers of iPhone users.
01:22:44
◼
►
Work with it better, have search that works, and then give us these things that clearly
01:22:47
◼
►
we all want.
01:22:48
◼
►
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:22:51
◼
►
So Federico, how did putting the video together compare this year to last year?
01:22:57
◼
►
Well, I started working on this almost three months ago.
01:23:04
◼
►
That's when I started my note of wishes that I wanted to come to the iPad.
01:23:11
◼
►
And I had the realization of I should focus on the iPad.
01:23:14
◼
►
I think around March, I wanted to do both iPhone and iPad.
01:23:19
◼
►
But as I was putting together this outline, I just felt better about the ideas that I
01:23:23
◼
►
had about the iPad and I was struggling to come up with iPhone stuff.
01:23:27
◼
►
And I thought that was a sign of I should focus on the iPad because this is where Apple
01:23:32
◼
►
is most behind.
01:23:34
◼
►
And so I contacted Sam and we got to work in, I think in mid-March, and we used Slack
01:23:40
◼
►
to communicate back and forth and to share mockups.
01:23:43
◼
►
Fun fact, we used to communicate with Telegram last year.
01:23:47
◼
►
And this year, it's been much better using--
01:23:49
◼
►
Yeah, Telegram.
01:23:51
◼
►
Remember that?
01:23:52
◼
►
Yeah, I remember that.
01:23:53
◼
►
It's been much better communicating
01:23:55
◼
►
than search in Slack.
01:23:56
◼
►
It's been super fun to look back at the concept and the mockups
01:24:01
◼
►
that we did.
01:24:02
◼
►
During the initial stages, Sam shared with me--
01:24:08
◼
►
I think it's called Marvel.
01:24:09
◼
►
It's like an interactive prototype tool.
01:24:12
◼
►
So I was able to sort of understand the interactions
01:24:16
◼
►
that he had in mind.
01:24:17
◼
►
And so we had these very rudimentary mock-ups
01:24:20
◼
►
for the split view picker and the shelf.
01:24:22
◼
►
And that was really fun because I could actually try
01:24:25
◼
►
and see the animations.
01:24:26
◼
►
That was very fun.
01:24:28
◼
►
- Marvel is very, very impressive.
01:24:29
◼
►
It's marvelous, you could even say, if you wanted to.
01:24:33
◼
►
- You could say it.
01:24:34
◼
►
If you wanted to say it, you could say it.
01:24:36
◼
►
- Don't say it.
01:24:37
◼
►
- Yes, you're fired from the show.
01:24:39
◼
►
Also, I think Sam uses Sketch to build all of the assets.
01:24:44
◼
►
Like last year, the video was exported at 4K.
01:24:49
◼
►
I don't even know what kind of computer Sam has.
01:24:51
◼
►
I assume it must be a Mac Pro or an iMac.
01:24:54
◼
►
I know it's a Mac and it uses Sketch.
01:24:56
◼
►
And I don't know all of the other tools that it uses.
01:24:58
◼
►
It's gonna have a behind the scenes type of stuff
01:25:02
◼
►
on the Cloud Mac stories newsletter.
01:25:05
◼
►
So, you know, it's gonna explain this stuff much better
01:25:08
◼
►
than I can. But from my end, I had this shared note, we were talking about sharing in notes,
01:25:16
◼
►
that I sent to Sam and I was looking at my ideas and it was organised in sections. And
01:25:22
◼
►
then Sam, a month later, came back to me with the same ideas but done in a sort of storyboard
01:25:30
◼
►
structure. There were scenes and ideas for cuts and zoom levels and transitions.
01:25:36
◼
►
So professional.
01:25:37
◼
►
I was very professional and from the get-go, we had this,
01:25:41
◼
►
I looked back and my first idea was,
01:25:45
◼
►
we should do a day in the life kind of theme
01:25:48
◼
►
to show the changes in practice.
01:25:50
◼
►
Instead of just having a like a gallery of mock-ups
01:25:53
◼
►
and features, let's show how a typical workflow
01:25:58
◼
►
would look like.
01:25:59
◼
►
And Sam had the idea of,
01:26:01
◼
►
why don't we plan a vacation to Barcelona,
01:26:03
◼
►
which is a city that we both love.
01:26:05
◼
►
So nice that you two got on that vacation together, I guess, at the end of this.
01:26:08
◼
►
Yeah. It's really sweet.
01:26:10
◼
►
Yeah. So that is perfect.
01:26:11
◼
►
Let's plan a vacation to Barcelona.
01:26:13
◼
►
So we try to imagine all of the apps that could be used.
01:26:16
◼
►
You know, for example, if you look, we have Duolingo in the shelf,
01:26:20
◼
►
which is the app to learn a different language.
01:26:23
◼
►
And there were some details that I'm really proud of in the video, for example,
01:26:27
◼
►
because it's a day in the life.
01:26:31
◼
►
The time in the system clock changes throughout the day
01:26:34
◼
►
to show you that it's the same person using the iPad throughout the day
01:26:38
◼
►
to switch between multiple apps in multiple sessions.
01:26:42
◼
►
Tell everyone we've got a smarty pants over here.
01:26:47
◼
►
There's some other stuff like most of the changes in notes that I,
01:26:51
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you know, they're not the highlight of the video, but they're there like
01:26:55
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they're better, rich links, there's, you know,
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new icons, there's the little animations and
01:27:04
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We tried to replicate the feeling of last year, but it's also kind of different.
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Last year I tried to look back and the core principle is the same, which is we should make a video that looks like something that could happen, that looks real.
01:27:19
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But last year, even the drag and drop stuff, it was based on the copy and paste menu.
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This year we went with a more gestural sort of interaction.
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and it looks a bit different, it looks more new.
01:27:33
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And of course the shelf is something that doesn't exist on iOS.
01:27:36
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So I think this year we had to balance the fact that we want to make a video
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that looks like something that Apple could do and that looks native to iOS,
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but we also have to invent these features because they don't exist right now.
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And so we spent a lot of time on making sure that those new features that don't exist
01:27:55
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wouldn't feel out of place because something that I don't like is when I look at concepts
01:28:00
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from other people, they look like something that,
01:28:02
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you know, it doesn't belong to iOS.
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And that is not what I wanted to build.
01:28:07
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And of course, you know, as usual,
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I provided lots of comments and lots of notes to Sam,
01:28:13
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lots of bullet points in Slack and notes.
01:28:15
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And, you know, he iterated with the mock-ups,
01:28:19
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with the static images,
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and then he sent me back the animations
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and then back and forth.
01:28:23
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It was very nice.
01:28:24
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Sam is a pro and he's a genius.
01:28:26
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So I'm very happy with the result.
01:28:28
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And also the music came from Sam, he gave me two choices and we settled on this epic beat this year.
01:28:36
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It's much more different from the happy music from last year, but I think it works.
01:28:40
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Epic beat, the name of the song.
01:28:42
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I think it's called Epic Beat.
01:28:44
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Perfect, of course it is.
01:28:45
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Yeah, it really has the look and feel of something that could come from Cupertino in my eyes.
01:28:52
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I watch it and I'm like, "You could fool me."
01:28:56
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Actually, last year I was talking to a friend outside of Moscone and it was like, "You know,
01:29:02
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I gotta tell you, a friend of mine texted me a few days ago and he told me, 'Hey guys,
01:29:07
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I saw that you announced the new iOS 10' and my friend was talking about your concept.
01:29:14
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So we had to explain that, so thank you." Yeah, that's the idea. I mean, I don't want
01:29:20
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to fool people, but I want to make sure that when you look at concepts, if they don't look
01:29:25
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native and if they break the illusion, you're just gonna notice this is something that can
01:29:30
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never exist, this is something that doesn't make sense because I cannot picture it. And
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we want to make sure that you can picture it, that you can see it, how it would make
01:29:38
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sense and that's why they need to look like Apple videos to us. Because they need to make
01:29:42
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sense, they need not to fool people but to be credible, to be reasonable. And I think
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if you cannot break the illusion then you get people to start thinking and to start
01:29:52
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imagining things and that's the beauty of a concept that you can start a discussion.
01:29:56
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All right you can find links to all of this stuff in our show notes today which are relay.fm/connected/142
01:30:02
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or just go to maxstories.net. This is incredible work from you and Sam again this year Federico.
01:30:11
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So thank you. Bravo. And I guess this begins the preparation for WWDC. Yes. Right like
01:30:20
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this is the start. We've got like two more episodes. It's coming up. It's all happening.
01:30:29
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So buckle up everybody I guess. Thanks to our sponsors this week, the fine folk over
01:30:34
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at Squarespace and PDF-Pen9 from Smile. You can find Federico online, he's @vitici.
01:30:44
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and maxstories.net and what other stories Federico? Any other stories?
01:30:49
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Or are we good? Just the two?
01:30:51
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This is all the stories that I have yeah.
01:30:54
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All the great stories .net apparently as well as where you also find them.
01:30:58
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You can go to 512pixels.net for Steven's work and he is @ismh on Twitter.
01:31:03
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I'm @imike, I M Y K E. We'll be back next week. Thank you so much for listening to
01:31:08
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Connected episode 142. Until then say goodbye guys.
01:31:12
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Arrivederci. Adios.