Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:06 ◼   ► From Bele FM, this is Connected episode 148. Today's show is brought to you by Igloo, Away, and Pingdom.

00:00:13 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley and I am joined by Federico Vittucci. Ciao Federico.

00:00:17 ◼   ► Ciao Myke.

00:00:19 ◼   ► Steven is out on assignment today.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:00:22 ◼   ► I think it was, if you remember last week, I made the promise that next week me and you would teach him something.

00:00:28 ◼   ► Remember we did the rotation of lessons.

00:00:31 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Yes.

00:00:33 ◼   ► So I think he didn't want to learn.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Or thought that there was nothing we could teach him, so he's out this week.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Stephen has skipped class today.

00:00:41 ◼   ► However, the final section of the show today, we are going to teach people stuff, I think,

00:00:46 ◼   ► whether they like it or not.

00:00:47 ◼   ► So I assume Stephen will listen to the show, so he's going to get taught no matter what

00:00:51 ◼   ► he does.

00:00:54 ◼   ► So you should do follow-up, Myke.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I don't really know how, but I'm going to give it a go.

00:00:59 ◼   ► I'm going to give you some of the facts. Follow up.

00:01:01 ◼   ► Thank you. Now I can do it. Now I'm ready. You gave me the special code word.

00:01:06 ◼   ► The prompt curse has taken a very unexpected turn on you Federico. So last week we were

00:01:11 ◼   ► talking about the issues that I was having with bricking of my iPads during the beta

00:01:18 ◼   ► process, during beta 1, and you had no problem at all. You were perfectly fine, everything

00:01:23 ◼   ► was running real well. Do you want to talk about what happened on Tuesday evening after

00:01:29 ◼   ► we recorded the show?

00:01:32 ◼   ► This is like when, I think in Harry Potter 1, or Harry Potter 2 maybe, when Ron tries

00:01:39 ◼   ► to the slug vomiting charm on Malfoy but it backfires because the wand is broken. So basically

00:01:46 ◼   ► and Ron starts vomiting slugs.

00:01:49 ◼   ► You watching a lot of Harry Potter at the moment, what's going on? That's a real deep reference.

00:01:54 ◼   ► So basically I talked about the beta being broken for you and just a couple of hours

00:02:00 ◼   ► later my iPad exploded so that's how it goes. Yeah.

00:02:05 ◼   ► How did you deal with it? Because you were already on 11 right? With everything.

00:02:10 ◼   ► I didn't deal with it at all, like I just had to surrender and you know, I was defeated

00:02:17 ◼   ► by the bugs.

00:02:19 ◼   ► Did you have to start fresh with your iPad?

00:02:22 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:02:24 ◼   ► I know.

00:02:25 ◼   ► It wasn't a fun couple of hours at all.

00:02:29 ◼   ► Didn't you have an iCloud backup of 11?

00:02:32 ◼   ► I did have an iCloud backup of 11, but if I tried to restore from the backup, it would

00:02:37 ◼   ► still hang at the Apple logo.

00:02:39 ◼   ► So yeah, the only solution was to either go back clean on iOS 10 or go back clean on iOS

00:02:47 ◼   ► And, you know, at that point I had to start clean, so whatever, I'm just gonna go again

00:02:53 ◼   ► with beta one.

00:02:54 ◼   ► You wanna go?

00:02:55 ◼   ► And I didn't, I didn't, what I did is I didn't put all my apps back in, so only the essentials,

00:03:02 ◼   ► because I thought the beta two would come out.

00:03:05 ◼   ► The following week, so I was like, I can wait for three to four days, wait for the second

00:03:10 ◼   ► beta, and then I will do my proper setup all over again.

00:03:14 ◼   ► And that's what happened.

00:03:15 ◼   ► So I wasted a couple of hours trying to do the restore, trying to restore from the backup.

00:03:22 ◼   ► Nothing worked and I was kinda upset, but you know, this stuff happens.

00:03:27 ◼   ► And if anything it made me appreciate the new setup experience of iOS 11, which is something

00:03:32 ◼   ► that I want to write about extensively in my review in a few months.

00:03:38 ◼   ► You know, the fact that you can set up an iOS device more quickly just by tapping with

00:03:42 ◼   ► another iOS 11 device.

00:03:44 ◼   ► So for example, to put back my iCloud information and my Apple ID for the App Store, and a bunch

00:03:51 ◼   ► of other settings, all I had to do was to tap my phone on the iPad and it would transfer

00:03:56 ◼   ► settings quickly.

00:03:58 ◼   ► And also there's a second component to this slimmer setup experience, which is the Express

00:04:03 ◼   ► Settings option.

00:04:05 ◼   ► Basically it's a new screen that comes up during setup and it's Apple telling you "Hey,

00:04:12 ◼   ► taking care of these basic settings for you, if you're okay with it, just hit continue,

00:04:17 ◼   ► otherwise you can explore each setting individually. So they're basically like bundling what used

00:04:23 ◼   ► to be a bunch of separate screens during setup into one recommended by Apple flow, that it's

00:04:31 ◼   ► much easier.

00:04:32 ◼   ► I assume that's stuff like sharing bug reports and all that kind of nonsense, which was like

00:04:37 ◼   ► a screen per warning.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Let me see because I think I have my screenshots archived in Devontink.

00:04:44 ◼   ► So yes, let me review beta one.

00:04:46 ◼   ► Because having set up a couple of new devices a couple of times recently, it was frustrating

00:04:50 ◼   ► to have to keep being like, "Yes, and these to Apple, yes, and these to developers."

00:04:54 ◼   ► So Express Settings includes Find My iPhone or Find My iPad with activation lock automatically

00:05:00 ◼   ► turned on, location services, and analytics.

00:05:05 ◼   ► That's three settings into one screen.

00:05:07 ◼   ► That's better.

00:05:08 ◼   ► You know, this is the thing. Every time a new iPhone comes out, me and Jason on upgrade,

00:05:14 ◼   ► we always talk about the setup process because it's always a disaster in some way.

00:05:19 ◼   ► And this is mainly because there are so many iPhones, right, on that day.

00:05:24 ◼   ► Things go wrong, things are slow. But one of the things that we're always talking about

00:05:29 ◼   ► is just the hundreds of taps that you are performing to get through the multitude of

00:05:35 ◼   ► screens. There's so many things you have to do to set up a new iOS device and I'm

00:05:40 ◼   ► happy that Apple's doing something to try and expediate that process a little

00:05:45 ◼   ► bit with a couple of new features there. So I'm just really pleased that they're

00:05:49 ◼   ► giving that some attention because I think it's much needed.

00:05:53 ◼   ► Yeah and basically what it comes down to now is you if you have another iOS

00:05:59 ◼   ► device you tap it so you don't have to put in passwords anymore I think maybe

00:06:03 ◼   ► just for two factor you have to receive the code I guess. So you transfer most of

00:06:08 ◼   ► the settings and accounts. Then you accept the express settings so you

00:06:14 ◼   ► don't have to go through like six separate screens anymore it's just one

00:06:18 ◼   ► and then you I guess you confirm a bunch of like the terms like the user terms

00:06:26 ◼   ► and that kind of stuff like agree agree. Touch ID probably you do. You do the

00:06:30 ◼   ► So touch ID is the big step now, like it's two, three screens.

00:06:36 ◼   ► But that's about it.

00:06:37 ◼   ► So it's much quicker than before.

00:06:39 ◼   ► So doing the restore made me appreciate that.

00:06:43 ◼   ► And I'm probably going to do another restore around beta 5, 6.

00:06:47 ◼   ► I don't want to do the GM because it's too late.

00:06:51 ◼   ► But I'm going to do another restore to see how this process changes.

00:06:54 ◼   ► But overall, I guess this is what Apple wants to do.

00:06:57 ◼   ► Transfer from another iOS device.

00:06:59 ◼   ► So you get the Apple ID and you get iCloud, Express settings for location, find my iPhone

00:07:04 ◼   ► and analytics and manual would be Touch ID, setting the display zoom to standard or what's

00:07:12 ◼   ► the name, display zoom I guess.

00:07:15 ◼   ► And yeah, I guess that's it.

00:07:18 ◼   ► So that was nice.

00:07:20 ◼   ► But starting fresh of course wasn't nice.

00:07:23 ◼   ► And I'm not sure if we mentioned this before, I think we did.

00:07:27 ◼   ► that tvOS is getting home screen sync on tvOS 11.

00:07:32 ◼   ► And my dream would be someday to get home screen sync

00:07:35 ◼   ► on iOS as well.

00:07:37 ◼   ► So, you know, for people with multiple iPads

00:07:38 ◼   ► or even just across the iPhone and the iPad,

00:07:40 ◼   ► it would just be so nice to,

00:07:42 ◼   ► especially now with the, you know, with the dock,

00:07:44 ◼   ► now that people are gonna have, I guess,

00:07:47 ◼   ► more complex iPad home screens,

00:07:49 ◼   ► it would be really nice to say,

00:07:50 ◼   ► hey, put my things back in the dock,

00:07:52 ◼   ► put my apps back on specific pages

00:07:54 ◼   ► and recreate my folders and stuff like that.

00:07:57 ◼   ► But yeah, now I'm on beta 2, everything seems to be better, I get a bunch of springboard crashes every day,

00:08:06 ◼   ► but those are not, like, you don't get stuck at the Apple logo, just 5 seconds and you're booted back into the home screen.

00:08:12 ◼   ► Yeah, because what it seemed like was happening, I mean, just from my experience of having it occur to me a couple of times,

00:08:19 ◼   ► if you hit a springboard crash, that was it.

00:08:23 ◼   ► I never hit a springboard crash

00:08:26 ◼   ► and came back from it. Every time I hit one

00:08:30 ◼   ► it was like, well, it's dead now. I mean, it happened to me twice but, you know,

00:08:34 ◼   ► I was using them for a couple of days

00:08:36 ◼   ► and as soon as springboard crashed it just brought the whole system down.

00:08:39 ◼   ► The thing about springboard is that it manages a bunch of services

00:08:46 ◼   ► that are not just a home screen.

00:08:48 ◼   ► Like there are components of Springboard in the way that

00:08:51 ◼   ► IS-11 takes screenshots or the way that SplitView is managed.

00:08:55 ◼   ► It is a real core part of the OS.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:08:57 ◼   ► Very very cool.

00:08:58 ◼   ► The thing that triggered the problem for me was I kept trying to get to putting into SplitView

00:09:05 ◼   ► WWDC, the app and Apple Notes and you know when you resize

00:09:10 ◼   ► SplitView and the the apps are kind of blurred because they don't show you the actual UI and

00:09:15 ◼   ► And those apps got stuck with that blurred state twice,

00:09:19 ◼   ► and I just kept trying to force it,

00:09:21 ◼   ► doing the force quit and going back into Split View.

00:09:24 ◼   ► And then my second attempt, everything just crashed

00:09:27 ◼   ► and I was stuck at the Apple logo.

00:09:29 ◼   ► It was partly my fault because I insisted

00:09:31 ◼   ► on winning over the system, but I didn't.

00:09:35 ◼   ► It was a, I lost and that was really sad.

00:09:38 ◼   ► But now everything is fine again.

00:09:40 ◼   ► In fact, we have the public beta now, Myke.

00:09:43 ◼   ► Dev Beta 2 and the Public Beta 1 are now out.

00:09:46 ◼   ► We're assuming that they're basically the same builds?

00:09:51 ◼   ► Really similar, I think, yeah.

00:09:53 ◼   ► How have you found stability to be on this round of betas?

00:09:57 ◼   ► So Beta 2 is much, much better than Beta 1.

00:10:01 ◼   ► There are still some problems.

00:10:03 ◼   ► Like now, you know, in the Files app,

00:10:07 ◼   ► you get the Locations menu, where

00:10:09 ◼   ► you can go iCloud Drive or other document providers.

00:10:14 ◼   ► And now there's support for the legacy document providers.

00:10:17 ◼   ► So even if those apps haven't updated to iOS 11 yet, such as Dropbox or Documents or Working

00:10:24 ◼   ► Copy, you can still open the legacy document provider, like the pop-up menu on the iPad.

00:10:30 ◼   ► Sometimes those don't work.

00:10:32 ◼   ► I see some home screen crashes about daily.

00:10:36 ◼   ► And drag and drop is inconsistent.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Sometimes it works, other times stuff just isn't recognized.

00:10:47 ◼   ► For example, I was trying to pick up a bunch of email messages today and move them into

00:10:51 ◼   ► a different folder and nope, that didn't work.

00:10:55 ◼   ► But this is all the expected stuff, right?

00:10:58 ◼   ► This is what happens, this is how it is.

00:11:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, so overall, if you consider these bugs

00:11:04 ◼   ► and these problems, I wouldn't say

00:11:07 ◼   ► there are any major showstoppers.

00:11:10 ◼   ► I mean, for me, there's one, which is the Workflow extension

00:11:15 ◼   ► doesn't work in Safari on iOS 11.

00:11:19 ◼   ► In fact, I think Workflow is the app that has the most bugs.

00:11:23 ◼   ► So that's kind of amusing because it's an Apple app now.

00:11:26 ◼   ► - Then we go to his follow right now.

00:11:28 ◼   ► Yeah, again, I am filing the radars.

00:11:33 ◼   ► I know, you are.

00:11:35 ◼   ► But that's why I have an iPad with iOS 10,

00:11:37 ◼   ► because for critical work stuff,

00:11:38 ◼   ► I still think I need a stable build,

00:11:42 ◼   ► especially for workflow.

00:11:44 ◼   ► Overall, I mean, there have been worse beta 2s in the past.

00:11:49 ◼   ► And for the beta 2, we're still in June.

00:11:53 ◼   ► So like, WWC was like not even three weeks ago.

00:11:57 ◼   ► So, yeah, I mean, the fact that there's a public beta

00:12:01 ◼   ► tells you that it could be worse.

00:12:03 ◼   ► And so it's at an acceptable stage.

00:12:07 ◼   ► Of course, you know, battery drain issues,

00:12:10 ◼   ► on-screen crashes, sometimes the camera on the iPhone

00:12:13 ◼   ► just doesn't work, so I need to force quit the camera app.

00:12:16 ◼   ► That stuff is to be expected.

00:12:19 ◼   ► But I don't think you're, at this point,

00:12:22 ◼   ► I don't think your phone would explode

00:12:25 ◼   ► if you put Beta 2 on your main device.

00:12:27 ◼   ► I wouldn't recommend it.

00:12:29 ◼   ► I won't put the Beta on my girlfriend's phone

00:12:31 ◼   ► or my mom's phone, but if you're one of those people

00:12:36 ◼   ► who really want to check out iOS 11 with Beta 2,

00:12:40 ◼   ► with some reservations, you can probably go for it.

00:12:43 ◼   ► - So when iOS 11 dropped, there was obviously some kind of,

00:12:49 ◼   ► I wouldn't call it an embargo, but--

00:12:52 ◼   ► - Oh no, it was an embargo.

00:12:53 ◼   ► It was totally an embargo.

00:12:55 ◼   ► But it's not in the traditional sense

00:12:57 ◼   ► because any of these websites could have written

00:13:00 ◼   ► what they had written already

00:13:01 ◼   ► 'cause it was all out there in the world.

00:13:03 ◼   ► But there were a bunch of websites

00:13:05 ◼   ► that published some iOS 11 preview posts

00:13:10 ◼   ► talking about kind of like the public beta's now out,

00:13:12 ◼   ► here's a little bit more about iOS 11 having used it.

00:13:15 ◼   ► So it's just people talking about the stuff

00:13:18 ◼   ► that everyone's been talking about for the last few weeks

00:13:20 ◼   ► but now it's in an article form.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And all the ones that I looked at were good.

00:13:26 ◼   ► The clear thing here is that everybody's focusing

00:13:29 ◼   ► on how big a change it is for the iPad.

00:13:31 ◼   ► I mean, to varying degrees of acceptance,

00:13:34 ◼   ► but everybody is talking, this is the key message,

00:13:37 ◼   ► which is great to hear.

00:13:39 ◼   ► It's kind of obviously what Apple feels as well.

00:13:41 ◼   ► Really, iOS 11,

00:13:44 ◼   ► whilst there's a lot of interesting stuff going on,

00:13:46 ◼   ► and we're gonna talk about some of that

00:13:47 ◼   ► a little bit later on in the show,

00:13:50 ◼   ► the big feature, the big, big, big thing here

00:13:53 ◼   ► is what is happening to the iPad of iOS 11.

00:13:57 ◼   ► I'm pleased that that's kind of the message

00:13:59 ◼   ► that seems to be circulating right now,

00:14:00 ◼   ► 'cause I think that's great.

00:14:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, and that makes sense, right?

00:14:04 ◼   ► Because even if you look at the iPhone,

00:14:06 ◼   ► there are changes, but they're not major changes

00:14:10 ◼   ► like last year, like a whole new iMessage

00:14:12 ◼   ► or a whole new Apple Music.

00:14:14 ◼   ► And obviously, it's obvious to anyone

00:14:18 ◼   ► that the iPad is the focus of this iOS release.

00:14:23 ◼   ► And I just love how there are some common themes already.

00:14:27 ◼   ► We are still at Beta 2, but I skimmed over some of these articles, and I watched the video of The Verge.

00:14:34 ◼   ► I didn't want to read the articles, because this is what I do every year, I don't want other opinions to even subconsciously influence what I'm going to do with my iOS review.

00:14:43 ◼   ► But, you know, from a quick read and talking to the Mac Stories guys who actually read

00:14:48 ◼   ► these stories, one of the common takeaways is about notifications on the lock screen.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Everybody's like, "Now when you swipe down, you see the lock screen," which I guess from

00:15:02 ◼   ► a consistency standpoint it makes sense, but I'm not sure why Apple is doing this, and

00:15:07 ◼   ► I'm really annoyed that you cannot dismiss individual notifications just by swiping on

00:15:13 ◼   ► them.

00:15:14 ◼   ► You need to force touch on them, to 3D touch on them, and to swipe down to dismiss.

00:15:20 ◼   ► I'm guessing that by the final release notifications and the fact that Apple cannot make up its

00:15:26 ◼   ► mind when it comes to the lock-in and the way that you open a notification center will

00:15:30 ◼   ► be one of the major areas of criticism.

00:15:34 ◼   ► But on the other hand, everybody seems to be fairly positive on the iPad.

00:15:40 ◼   ► In fact, you know, the Verge seemed really positive to me.

00:15:43 ◼   ► I watched the video with Dieter Bohn.

00:15:46 ◼   ► That was a really nice video.

00:15:47 ◼   ► But then I saw Joshua Topolski on Twitter.

00:15:50 ◼   ► I don't even want to talk about it.

00:15:52 ◼   ► I just, I can't.

00:15:53 ◼   ► It's just...

00:15:54 ◼   ► So, yeah, some folks still...

00:15:56 ◼   ► I mean, I guess for some people I can see why iOS 11 and the iPad are not enough to

00:16:02 ◼   ► convince people to use the iPad as a real laptop or as a real computer, which we went

00:16:07 ◼   ► over this many, many times before.

00:16:09 ◼   ► We have been going over this for three years now, I think.

00:16:12 ◼   ► Yes.

00:16:13 ◼   ► So, yeah, there's no sense in starting this.

00:16:17 ◼   ► It's not even a debate anymore.

00:16:18 ◼   ► It's not a debate.

00:16:19 ◼   ► It's more like an opinion.

00:16:20 ◼   ► So, you think it doesn't work, I think it works, whatever.

00:16:25 ◼   ► It's not a debate at all.

00:16:28 ◼   ► I don't think it's worth debating anymore at this point.

00:16:31 ◼   ► If with everything that we have now, if you still believe that it's impossible to do work

00:16:35 ◼   ► on the iPad, then you will never be able to work on the iPad.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Right?

00:16:40 ◼   ► Like if that's what you are still thinking in 2017 with the devices that we have, with

00:16:44 ◼   ► the peripherals that they have and the operating system, if you have used all that together

00:16:48 ◼   ► and think you can't work on the iPad, then stop trying.

00:16:52 ◼   ► Like, you know, no one's going to get upset.

00:16:55 ◼   ► Like it's clearly not for you, but you don't need to talk about how it shouldn't be for

00:16:59 ◼   ► anyone at that point.

00:17:00 ◼   ► I think that you're kind of missing the point.

00:17:04 ◼   ► I am really struggling, deliberating about upgrading.

00:17:10 ◼   ► I haven't yet gone back to 11.

00:17:14 ◼   ► I really want to.

00:17:16 ◼   ► But there's some--

00:17:17 ◼   ► I tell you one of the things that's

00:17:19 ◼   ► stopping me from doing it.

00:17:21 ◼   ► And it's something that you tweeted just before we started

00:17:23 ◼   ► recording today.

00:17:24 ◼   ► Where you said, at the point where

00:17:26 ◼   ► I want all my most used iPad apps to integrate with files

00:17:29 ◼   ► support drag and drop. iOS 10 interactions are feeling old. This is what I'm worried about.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Like this is kind of what I was touching on last week, you know, about like hoping that

00:17:39 ◼   ► some applications might be able to support something now, you know, like they could maybe

00:17:44 ◼   ► jump on the train a little bit early. It's purely because like I felt this way with iOS 9, right,

00:17:50 ◼   ► I remember it that like there's all this stuff in here that I know is in here but I don't use

00:17:56 ◼   ► the applications that can take advantage of this, right, because they're not available

00:18:02 ◼   ► yet.

00:18:03 ◼   ► So, you know, the fact that I wouldn't be able to integrate with files and I won't be

00:18:06 ◼   ► able to use drag and drop with most of the apps that I use is kind of making me feel

00:18:10 ◼   ► like I'm just going to be frustrated trying to use iOS 11 right now.

00:18:16 ◼   ► You know what I mean?

00:18:17 ◼   ► >> Yeah, I do.

00:18:18 ◼   ► And that's why every year I try to switch back to Apple apps because you get all of

00:18:26 ◼   ► these new features earlier, like in June, and if you don't use Apple apps or if you're

00:18:32 ◼   ► like "I cannot use Safari" or "I cannot use Apple Mail" then that's gonna be a problem.

00:18:38 ◼   ► But I should say that I don't think it's as bad as the transition to iOS 9 where you just

00:18:45 ◼   ► couldn't have Split View or you just couldn't have Slide Over.

00:18:51 ◼   ► That was really rough.

00:18:52 ◼   ► And I remember basically switching over

00:18:56 ◼   ► to every Apple alternative that I could use,

00:18:58 ◼   ► like Reminders, Notes, Safari, Mail,

00:19:01 ◼   ► just because they had Split View.

00:19:04 ◼   ► I do think drag and drop and files,

00:19:08 ◼   ► once they are properly supported,

00:19:10 ◼   ► like we will look back and we will ask ourselves,

00:19:14 ◼   ► how did we even manage?

00:19:16 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:17 ◼   ► - But now I feel like, yeah,

00:19:19 ◼   ► I don't have the files integration.

00:19:21 ◼   ► For example, I was thinking about like,

00:19:23 ◼   ► imagine if dev on think or working copy

00:19:25 ◼   ► could allow me to browse my database

00:19:27 ◼   ► or my GitHub repo into files.

00:19:30 ◼   ► And that will be glorious eventually.

00:19:32 ◼   ► But even now, you know,

00:19:35 ◼   ► you get some form of drag and drop with Safari.

00:19:38 ◼   ► You get some basically drag and dropping to do is,

00:19:43 ◼   ► for example, or Ulysses.

00:19:46 ◼   ► I know it's not the real thing yet,

00:19:48 ◼   ► but I don't think it's like it makes you long

00:19:51 ◼   ► for the future, like in June, 2015,

00:19:54 ◼   ► when iOS 9 came out and all of our apps

00:19:59 ◼   ► felt basically broken because they were full screen

00:20:02 ◼   ► and you just couldn't resize them and that was rough.

00:20:05 ◼   ► I think I'm like, I'm really wishing

00:20:08 ◼   ► for drag and drop and files,

00:20:10 ◼   ► but if I had to compare that to iOS 9,

00:20:13 ◼   ► the iOS 9 was way, way worse.

00:20:17 ◼   ► - Okay, so like whilst it's still you want it,

00:20:20 ◼   ► you still get elements of it.

00:20:22 ◼   ► So like you get a taste of it and it can kind of associate.

00:20:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, that's basically how I feel, yeah.

00:20:30 ◼   ► So I think-- - I'm still deliberating man.

00:20:33 ◼   ► - I mean, I think you should try to incorporate

00:20:37 ◼   ► some Apple apps in your workflow, even if temporarily.

00:20:41 ◼   ► If you really wanna try this stuff.

00:20:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, I mean, I use Notes all the time, right?

00:20:45 ◼   ► So I could just use Notes and Safari.

00:20:47 ◼   ► Yeah, so that would be great, I think.

00:20:51 ◼   ► That's what I'm using drag and drop for most of the time anyway.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Like I'm dropping stuff either from Photos or from Safari into Apple Notes.

00:20:59 ◼   ► And that's enough, I think, to give you an idea.

00:21:02 ◼   ► So where I am right now, I'm feeling like, see if I can wait to beta 3.

00:21:07 ◼   ► Just see if I can wait.

00:21:09 ◼   ► I'll follow up on whether I can actually wait.

00:21:13 ◼   ► Mentioning follow up, I don't know what's happened.

00:21:15 ◼   ► We're not done with follow-up at this point. We still have a lot more of it. I think we've

00:21:22 ◼   ► broken it. We clearly need Steven.

00:21:24 ◼   ► This is what happens when Dad is not around.

00:21:26 ◼   ► Yeah, we just ruined the structure. So we're not done. So I'm going to take a break, though.

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00:22:52 ◼   ► We're talking about the lock screen and I forgot to pick up this thought so I made a

00:22:56 ◼   ► note.

00:22:57 ◼   ► I have a theory about this lock screen stuff.

00:23:01 ◼   ► Give me your theory, Myke.

00:23:03 ◼   ► It's all about this new iPhone.

00:23:05 ◼   ► Okay, how?

00:23:07 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:23:09 ◼   ► I know that that's not great, but there is something about this which says to me,

00:23:15 ◼   ► there is a reason and the reason is not an enhancement in the software we currently

00:23:21 ◼   ► have. So why would you do this? Like it doesn't seem logical in any way.

00:23:27 ◼   ► So there is a missing piece and that missing piece could be there's something

00:23:32 ◼   ► about this new iPhone that on that iPhone it makes sense because it doesn't make

00:23:38 ◼   ► sense otherwise. So this is the idea again to just to refresh people that now

00:23:43 ◼   ► the lock screen and notification center are one and the same thing so like you

00:23:48 ◼   ► can be looking at your lock screen and sometimes it's locked and sometimes it's

00:23:52 ◼   ► unlocked it depends how you've accessed it and sometimes you can get to your

00:23:55 ◼   ► notifications and sometimes you can't it's all on one screen now.

00:24:00 ◼   ► So my theory Myke is a little it's more sad and maybe pragmatic and I know what

00:24:08 ◼   ► you mean and I want you to be right honestly, like I want to have like a big flashy explanation

00:24:14 ◼   ► like September there's an event and we're all like "oh so that's why you're redesigning

00:24:19 ◼   ► notifications" and I really want that to be true but I feel like reality will be a little

00:24:23 ◼   ► more just sad which is Apple took a look at a bunch of analytics, realized people don't

00:24:31 ◼   ► open notification center at all, and people don't open widgets at all by swiping down.

00:24:38 ◼   ► So they looked at stats for the lock screen, realized, well, people interact with notifications

00:24:44 ◼   ► on the lock screen a lot, so why not just make it like a lock screen?

00:24:49 ◼   ► Because that will help the numbers, and the analytics show that people tend to associate

00:24:55 ◼   ► notifications with lock screen.

00:24:57 ◼   ► So let's just use the same design and rely on auto-lock to lock the user device when

00:25:07 ◼   ► they're not interacting with a fake lock screen anymore.

00:25:10 ◼   ► And that's about it.

00:25:12 ◼   ► That's the same reason why I think we don't have multiple column widgets on the iPad anymore,

00:25:19 ◼   ► because they looked at the numbers and so few people were actually taking advantage

00:25:22 ◼   ► of that.

00:25:24 ◼   ► it probably was leading to bugs or to whatever, I don't know, but just, you know,

00:25:29 ◼   ► let's just get rid of it because it doesn't help.

00:25:31 ◼   ► I am really sad that the single column is back. That's so silly. It's such a waste of space.

00:25:36 ◼   ► Like, it doesn't make sense to me why you'd remove something like that.

00:25:39 ◼   ► I mean, I'm choosing to take the optimistic view this time because, as I've said,

00:25:44 ◼   ► I am trying to make 27... Apple's 2017, which goes from now to June 2018, right, their full year,

00:25:52 ◼   ► which is kind of how I think about Apple, right? The year starts and ends at WWDC.

00:25:55 ◼   ► I am making a concerted effort to take the optimistic and positive view.

00:26:00 ◼   ► I appreciate that.

00:26:02 ◼   ► Right, because WWDC was so good that I, it was good enough that I can feel like

00:26:09 ◼   ► I don't need to be glum anymore. So on this instance, I'm gonna say, okay, this seems

00:26:15 ◼   ► really bad, really screwed up. You know, it's basically you've got, there is something we

00:26:19 ◼   ► we don't understand yet versus Apple still doesn't understand how people work with notifications.

00:26:25 ◼   ► And I'm choosing to take the road of there's something that we just haven't seen yet, which

00:26:29 ◼   ► will start to make some sense in some way. Because right now it really is kind of a bit

00:26:35 ◼   ► of a mess. So I'm taking the positive view on this one.

00:26:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, look, there are a few ways that I think I could be sold on the new notifications

00:26:45 ◼   ► design. First, I think there should be a way to tell people that it looks like a

00:26:50 ◼   ► lock screen but your device is not immediately locked and I don't think a

00:26:55 ◼   ► tiny icon in the status bar will be enough. There has to be some kind of

00:26:59 ◼   ► explanation like one of those details card that come up on iOS now to explain

00:27:04 ◼   ► new stuff. I think there should be a non-boarding experience to tell people

00:27:09 ◼   ► Look, it looks like a lock screen, but it's not locked straight away.

00:27:15 ◼   ► And also to tell them it respects this setting for auto-lock that you have in the iOS settings.

00:27:22 ◼   ► And that's why I think this is a problem for me, and for me specifically, and maybe other

00:27:27 ◼   ► people like me, which we are a tiny percentage of the aggregate iOS user base.

00:27:33 ◼   ► I never, ever use auto-lock.

00:27:36 ◼   ► I always, always lock my devices manually.

00:27:40 ◼   ► I don't know why, could be that there's a component

00:27:43 ◼   ► inside my brain that doesn't trust auto-lock,

00:27:46 ◼   ► or it just, maybe it's just a habit that I have,

00:27:49 ◼   ► but I always, always reach out for the power button

00:27:52 ◼   ► to lock my devices.

00:27:54 ◼   ► So for me specifically, having a notification center design,

00:27:58 ◼   ► now it's called the cover sheet,

00:27:59 ◼   ► so let's just use the proper name.

00:28:01 ◼   ► Having the cover sheet look like a lock screen,

00:28:04 ◼   ► but it doesn't lock my device. For someone like me who doesn't use auto-lock, that is a problem, because it sort of

00:28:11 ◼   ► confuses me, because it makes me believe the device is locked, but my brain tells me, "Look,

00:28:18 ◼   ► it's the lock screen, but I also know it's not locked."

00:28:21 ◼   ► But also, I think

00:28:24 ◼   ► what I don't like is the double gesture

00:28:26 ◼   ► involved with viewing all notifications.

00:28:30 ◼   ► And I think it sort of it kind of breaks a special model of I swipe down and I see my latest

00:28:38 ◼   ► Notifications, but then if I want to view them all I need to swipe up because because there's an icon that says earlier today

00:28:47 ◼   ► So first I need to swipe down then I need to swipe up and it's kind of like the seesaw on

00:28:53 ◼   ► notifications that breaks my mental model my mental association of

00:28:58 ◼   ► of I swipe down and I see everything. And I know that it used to be the same before,

00:29:04 ◼   ► like from an interaction standpoint, on iOS 10, you swipe down and then you start scrolling,

00:29:10 ◼   ► right? And now it's the same, but it's the breaking this flow into two distinct steps

00:29:17 ◼   ► that kind of breaks everything apart for me. Like, I swipe down and I see a tiny fraction

00:29:21 ◼   ► of notifications, and then I need to swipe up again and I get a haptic feedback that

00:29:26 ◼   ► that tells me this is the second stage,

00:29:28 ◼   ► and there's something about it that I don't like.

00:29:31 ◼   ► And the third aspect is,

00:29:34 ◼   ► I do agree with the folks who say,

00:29:37 ◼   ► it's just too difficult to dismiss

00:29:39 ◼   ► an individual notification now.

00:29:40 ◼   ► It was much easier when you could just wipe on it

00:29:43 ◼   ► and you got like a close button or a dismiss button.

00:29:47 ◼   ► Now you need to 3D touch on it or to long press

00:29:51 ◼   ► and then swipe the card down.

00:29:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's silly.

00:29:53 ◼   ► That's silly.

00:29:54 ◼   ► - And that is just so slow.

00:29:55 ◼   ► So I would say three aspects that I don't like.

00:29:57 ◼   ► Make it clear that it doesn't lock your device, that it follows the auto-lock setting.

00:30:05 ◼   ► Figure out a way to not have this sort of two-stage swipe interaction.

00:30:13 ◼   ► And three, make it easier to dismiss an individual notification.

00:30:17 ◼   ► Because right now, if you take these three things together, at least for me, it makes

00:30:21 ◼   ► the cover sheet confusing and it makes it slow and difficult to triage my notifications and to go on

00:30:27 ◼   ► with my day. It feels like I need to manage this screen whereas notifications are meant to be viewed

00:30:33 ◼   ► quickly, interacted with quickly and dismissed with just a swipe and a tap. And right now it just feels

00:30:40 ◼   ► like "oh god I'm in cover sheet". You know that feeling? And I think there are some changes that

00:30:46 ◼   ► that Apple can make to make this better.

00:30:48 ◼   ► You made a strong case. There's some more stuff in the beta that has just caught my

00:30:55 ◼   ► eye as being quite interesting. Now in the beta release notes, Apple is listing some

00:31:00 ◼   ► issues with popular third-party applications. This is new. They've never done this before,

00:31:06 ◼   ► right?

00:31:07 ◼   ► Not publicly, yeah. I don't think this kind of list is new internally at all. I think

00:31:16 ◼   ► the first time there are so many different apps are mentioned to the public release notes.

00:31:21 ◼   ► So that's nice because I mean they know that this kind of audience, developers and people like us,

00:31:28 ◼   ► we have a bunch of third-party apps installed so why not just tell people that those apps are

00:31:33 ◼   ► gonna have problems, you know? Like it's not the traditional Apple way, it's a pragmatic way to

00:31:41 ◼   ► go about it. Like, we know you use Tweetbot, or we know you use Strava or whatever. These

00:31:47 ◼   ► apps have problems right now, so you should know. In fact, I think it should also make

00:31:52 ◼   ► sense for the public beta, because now you have an even wider audience of nerds who want

00:31:57 ◼   ► to tie the beta up. So I appreciate this idea. I think it makes sense.

00:32:02 ◼   ► If you know, I mean, I know it's not everything and that's where it gets a bit tricky, but

00:32:06 ◼   ► like, if you know, then why not tell people? Also something that's new that I know that

00:32:10 ◼   ► that you're very excited about, TestFlight is working.

00:32:13 ◼   ► On the previous data, for iOS 10, TestFlight,

00:32:18 ◼   ► you couldn't use iOS 10 builds

00:32:19 ◼   ► until very late in the process of applications.

00:32:24 ◼   ► But it appears that you can, as a developer,

00:32:27 ◼   ► you can submit an iOS 11 build

00:32:29 ◼   ► with iOS 11 features to TestFlight.

00:32:31 ◼   ► They tell you not to submit it to the store,

00:32:34 ◼   ► but you can use it and you can distribute it externally.

00:32:37 ◼   ► So that's really great, especially for people like yourself

00:32:40 ◼   ► who I'm sure really want to test some features

00:32:42 ◼   ► with third-party applications.

00:32:44 ◼   ► - I had my first iOS 11 only app installed

00:32:49 ◼   ► during the weekend, and I'm really happy about it.

00:32:52 ◼   ► It used to be the test flight wouldn't open

00:32:56 ◼   ► until like late in August,

00:32:57 ◼   ► or even just the week of the September event.

00:33:01 ◼   ► So being able to test apps in late June,

00:33:04 ◼   ► I mean, sign me up, that is amazing.

00:33:07 ◼   ► And I saw some developers still having issues

00:33:10 ◼   ► not being able to submit iOS 11 only builds.

00:33:13 ◼   ► But I think if you use Xcode 9 and the latest beta seeds,

00:33:18 ◼   ► you can just upload straight to Task Flight

00:33:20 ◼   ► for external testers, like people like me and Myke.

00:33:22 ◼   ► In fact, if you wanna send us betas of iOS 11 apps,

00:33:26 ◼   ► Myke, please do.

00:33:28 ◼   ► That will be, hopefully that will convince Myke

00:33:31 ◼   ► to install iOS 11 on his devices.

00:33:34 ◼   ► If he gets enough betas, he will put the beta on his iPad.

00:33:38 ◼   ► - I feel like I'd have to at that point.

00:33:39 ◼   ► I need to do my duty as a beta tester.

00:33:43 ◼   ► Last week we were talking about Nest and HomeKit, right?

00:33:46 ◼   ► Like why aren't Nest using HomeKit

00:33:48 ◼   ► and what were the reasons for that?

00:33:50 ◼   ► And a friend of the show, Zach, sent in some tweets

00:33:52 ◼   ► about his experience whilst at Nest.

00:33:55 ◼   ► And so he said that Nest seemed to have had an issue

00:34:00 ◼   ► at the point, 'cause I think he was there around the time

00:34:02 ◼   ► that HomeKit was announced,

00:34:04 ◼   ► or at least it was being discussed.

00:34:06 ◼   ► And that they had an issue at the time

00:34:08 ◼   ► that there was no good sense with HomeKit

00:34:12 ◼   ► of knowing who exactly was at home,

00:34:15 ◼   ► and they didn't like this approach.

00:34:16 ◼   ► They liked the idea of being able to tailor their devices

00:34:20 ◼   ► based on who was there.

00:34:22 ◼   ► So Nest went with their own solution,

00:34:24 ◼   ► which Steven was praising last week, right,

00:34:26 ◼   ► about all the different settings that you can add

00:34:29 ◼   ► for who's in and who's not and what you should do.

00:34:31 ◼   ► So apparently it wasn't a bad blood thing.

00:34:34 ◼   ► It wasn't like a, oh, that's Apple or anything like that.

00:34:37 ◼   ► They just wanted to make the best products or service

00:34:40 ◼   ► that they could, or at least the one that they wanted to make.

00:34:42 ◼   ► So they did that, right?

00:34:43 ◼   ► Like Nest have their stuff that they do.

00:34:45 ◼   ► But now that device location is gonna be a part of HomeKit,

00:34:48 ◼   ► that's why this could possibly change.

00:34:50 ◼   ► That might be why they're looking at it now,

00:34:52 ◼   ► because now it looks like it's gonna be possible

00:34:55 ◼   ► to tell who's at home and who's not,

00:34:56 ◼   ► and tailor devices and their interactions based upon that.

00:35:00 ◼   ► So that was really interesting feedback.

00:35:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I love this kind of feedback.

00:35:07 ◼   ► Now when we get these kinds of stories,

00:35:09 ◼   ► like it gives all the details that we missed from--

00:35:13 ◼   ► - Stuff there's no way we could know, right?

00:35:15 ◼   ► Without people telling us.

00:35:17 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is the perfect kind of follow up.

00:35:20 ◼   ► So yeah, thank you, Zach, for the tweets.

00:35:23 ◼   ► - Federico.

00:35:25 ◼   ► You're struggling with keyboards, right?

00:35:29 ◼   ► - Again. - This is another story

00:35:31 ◼   ► in your tale of woe.

00:35:33 ◼   ► You are seen to be having some real keyboard problems.

00:35:38 ◼   ► - So I was all, I was upset that,

00:35:43 ◼   ► I should say again, because this is something

00:35:46 ◼   ► that I go through every few months.

00:35:48 ◼   ► I've had extremely bad luck with keyboards

00:35:52 ◼   ► for my iPad Pro in the past year.

00:35:54 ◼   ► I was loving the Razer keyboard +10+ case, it was like a 3 in 1 setup, until the kickstand broke miserably.

00:36:05 ◼   ► It was really sad, basically the plastic broke and now the iPad cannot stand in the Razer case anymore.

00:36:15 ◼   ► I tried the again the Logitech Create, but it's just so bulky for the 12.9 and it just it's it's um

00:36:23 ◼   ► Good luck

00:36:24 ◼   ► If you want to try to get the iPad Pro out of the Logitech Create case

00:36:28 ◼   ► If you don't wanna if you don't want to break break a finger trying to pull it out. I

00:36:34 ◼   ► Used the Magic Keyboard for months and it works, but I really wish it had

00:36:39 ◼   ► It was backlit and that it had like a carrying solution that integrated with the iPad

00:36:45 ◼   ► I use the Kanopy from the StudioNet guys for months and it's really excellent. It's one of my favorite

00:36:52 ◼   ► workarounds for now

00:36:55 ◼   ► But again, it misses the ability to have like a all-in-one solution that allows you to use the iPad

00:37:01 ◼   ► Anywhere like on your lap or on a desk while you're sitting on the sofa

00:37:08 ◼   ► And the Kanopy also doesn't have a way to have an adjustable angle. It's a fixed angle solution

00:37:15 ◼   ► So I thought, you know, at this point I should just accept my fate and I know

00:37:23 ◼   ► that I'm gonna use the iPad to write my iOS 11 review on a desk so I can just

00:37:28 ◼   ► prop up the iPad with a smart cover and maybe what I should do is I should get a

00:37:33 ◼   ► proper bigger more comfortable external keyboard. So I did some research and I

00:37:39 ◼   ► thought, you know, maybe I should try this Matias wireless aluminum keyboard.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Why did you choose this?

00:37:47 ◼   ► Because it's bigger than the Magic Keyboard.

00:37:49 ◼   ► It's got like the dedicated number pad and it just it felt more comfortable for my hands.

00:37:56 ◼   ► You know that Apple sell one with a number pad now, right?

00:37:59 ◼   ► I do, but I felt like I wanted to try these different keys.

00:38:04 ◼   ► And it looked solid, the battery.

00:38:08 ◼   ► People have really good things to say about the Matthias keyboard.

00:38:10 ◼   ► I completely agree with that.

00:38:12 ◼   ► So did you say Matthias or Matthias?

00:38:14 ◼   ► I don't know. Maybe we should just say it differently every single time.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Okay, I'm gonna say Matthias and you're gonna say Matthias. Make sense?

00:38:21 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'm gonna say Matthias and I'm gonna say Matthias.

00:38:24 ◼   ► I'm just gonna keep saying it differently. Because eventually we'll get it right if we do, you know?

00:38:28 ◼   ► Anyway, this keyboard. So I buy the keyboard, it arrives in a couple of days, and I

00:38:34 ◼   ► take it out of the box. I really love the design, it's super comfortable for my hands.

00:38:38 ◼   ► And it allows you to connect to up to four Bluetooth

00:38:42 ◼   ► devices at once. It's got dedicated buttons to switch the connections, so that's lovely.

00:38:50 ◼   ► Until I start typing and after 30 seconds of inactivity the keyboard disconnects. So

00:38:57 ◼   ► I try a bunch of fixes, like I do the Bluetooth pairing again, I reboot my devices, I try

00:39:07 ◼   ► all sorts of possible ways to fix the problem.

00:39:12 ◼   ► And then I get in touch with the Matias guys over email and on Twitter, and they send me

00:39:18 ◼   ► this email about "If you're using the keyboard with an iPad, with an iOS device, you should

00:39:23 ◼   ► know that there's..."

00:39:25 ◼   ► And this is super strange, because they said "There's a bug that prevents third-party keyboards

00:39:32 ◼   ► from keeping their connections alive all the time persistently because Apple wants to have

00:39:39 ◼   ► their secret sauce just for the Magic Keyboard. So I was like, is it a bug or is it a strategy

00:39:46 ◼   ► from Apple?

00:39:47 ◼   ► I mean, when I look at this, I don't really know how to read that because it sounds like

00:39:52 ◼   ► reporting a bug and also being upset and maybe also believing something, right? Like, you

00:40:00 ◼   ► You could also read that as like, the Matthias people were really upset that this bug is

00:40:04 ◼   ► there, so their assumption is, Apple wants to sell more keyboards.

00:40:09 ◼   ► Right?

00:40:10 ◼   ► So they leave the bug, as opposed to it just being a bug.

00:40:12 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:40:13 ◼   ► But what is strange is that this is the first time in years that I hear about this problem.

00:40:19 ◼   ► I used Bluetooth keyboards in the past, like non-Apple keyboards, other Bluetooth keyboards,

00:40:26 ◼   ► I never had this problem myself.

00:40:29 ◼   ► So I really don't know what to believe.

00:40:31 ◼   ► Honestly this to me feels like these Matias guys are not optimizing their Bluetooth code

00:40:36 ◼   ► properly for iOS because I get the impression that this is a Mac first company and they

00:40:46 ◼   ► are primarily optimizing for desktop computers and desktop users.

00:40:54 ◼   ► and I wish I could be wrong, I don't buy this explanation.

00:41:00 ◼   ► I never heard of this problem.

00:41:03 ◼   ► There's folks on Twitter who say, "I have a Microsoft keyboard"

00:41:08 ◼   ► or "I have a Zag keyboard, I have a Logitech one and I don't have this issue."

00:41:13 ◼   ► Like, the keyboard stays connected.

00:41:15 ◼   ► I've never had that problem with Bluetooth keyboards that I've used either.

00:41:18 ◼   ► Exactly, so I don't know.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Anyway, basically I'm back to the Magic Keyboard

00:41:23 ◼   ► I'm using the Smart Cover to prop up the iPad and I bought a Magic Keyboard carrying case.

00:41:31 ◼   ► It's like a hard shell case to put the Magic Keyboard in it and maybe, you know, I can save room in my

00:41:39 ◼   ► Tom Bihn bag. I can also put some cables in so I don't have like a whole mess of cables around.

00:41:45 ◼   ► So now I have a case for the Magic Keyboard and someday someone will make my ideal iPad typing setup that is not the smart keyboard.

00:41:55 ◼   ► Once again, what I want is some kind of keyboard, ideally similar to the Magic Keyboard, that is backlit and that integrates with the iPad in a way that I have an adjustable angle, like an adjustable viewing angle,

00:42:08 ◼   ► viewing angle and some kind of base that allows me to use it on a desk and also

00:42:14 ◼   ► prop it up on my lap like a laptop. Someday maybe that will happen but not

00:42:19 ◼   ► today not this summer so I'm back to the Magic Keyboard for now.

00:42:22 ◼   ► I'm sorry.

00:42:23 ◼   ► Yeah, well, what you gotta do?

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00:45:18 ◼   ► So yesterday the reviews came out of the Echo Show.

00:45:23 ◼   ► So I've watched a couple of videos.

00:45:26 ◼   ► I watched one from The Verge and one from Wired and they were pretty good and I think

00:45:33 ◼   ► for me they kind of have cemented a lot of my feelings on it and I think we should probably

00:45:41 ◼   ► go through some of that.

00:45:42 ◼   ► Have you read the reviews too?

00:45:45 ◼   ► I watched the Verge video.

00:45:47 ◼   ► Right.

00:45:48 ◼   ► So they're really good, I mean they show you, and I think for a product like this personally,

00:45:52 ◼   ► I mean I know I'm quite biased, but I think a video does a lot better for showing a product

00:45:56 ◼   ► like this than just reading about it.

00:45:58 ◼   ► Because there is visual and audio parts of the product that you want to be able to experience.

00:46:03 ◼   ► So I really appreciate when these websites put together video reviews.

00:46:09 ◼   ► It's nice.

00:46:10 ◼   ► Anywho, so I'm gonna go through some of my feelings Federico and you feel free to jump

00:46:15 ◼   ► in.

00:46:16 ◼   ► The design, I really don't like it.

00:46:21 ◼   ► I wasn't keen on it from the product shots but especially when you see it kind of in

00:46:25 ◼   ► people's homes, I think it sticks out too much in a way that the current Echo designs

00:46:30 ◼   ► do not.

00:46:32 ◼   ► I think that there is a chunkiness to the Echo show which I am not too keen on.

00:46:39 ◼   ► Yeah, it doesn't look good, honestly. I thought it would be not this chunky block that you

00:46:48 ◼   ► put on your countertop. You know, like, it's not a slim device at all. It doesn't disappear

00:46:55 ◼   ► either. It's like a mini TV on your kitchen. Like, okay. That is not the unassuming hardware

00:47:06 ◼   ► that some people would like to have in a living room or in the kitchen.

00:47:09 ◼   ► I get the idea of like this is like a replacement for a kitchen TV,

00:47:14 ◼   ► but it's thicker than any TV you can buy today.

00:47:18 ◼   ► Like significantly.

00:47:19 ◼   ► It's like it's like a smart CRT TV, like it's like this big box.

00:47:25 ◼   ► And I get like part of the design is so they can have a base built into it

00:47:29 ◼   ► and they can angle it like I can see how they got to that.

00:47:32 ◼   ► But I think that there could have been a more elegant looking solution than the one that they ended up with.

00:47:38 ◼   ► Again, they may not have been able to do it with everything that they wanted to pack into the thing, I understand that.

00:47:44 ◼   ► But the industrial design that they have landed on does not vibe with my personal tastes.

00:47:49 ◼   ► What I like about this is that it seems that in general, the screen is additive to the

00:48:02 ◼   ► it to the Echo experience, it doesn't seem like for the things you would normally do

00:48:08 ◼   ► when talking to your Echo, you have to look at the screen. It's still giving the audio

00:48:14 ◼   ► cues but if you do look at the screen, you get more information. Like for example, timers.

00:48:20 ◼   ► If you ask how many timers are left, it will tell you but it also puts them on the screen

00:48:25 ◼   ► so you can see the countdown. It does everything that you're used to doing but with visual

00:48:29 ◼   ► prompts and I think that that is a really good way of doing this as opposed to just

00:48:35 ◼   ► saying "hey look at the screen" because that's kind of not the point of the echo and I'm

00:48:40 ◼   ► pleased that just because they put a screen on this thing they haven't now like for things

00:48:45 ◼   ► that could be given to you and have been given to you via audio cues in the past that they

00:48:50 ◼   ► haven't just stripped those out and been like "I show this to you right now" like I don't

00:48:54 ◼   ► want that like I want to be able to say show me a YouTube video and see the YouTube video

00:48:59 ◼   ► which the current Echo can't do, but if I ask it what the weather is, I want it to tell me.

00:49:03 ◼   ► So I'm pleased that they're mixing those two things together, as opposed to being like,

00:49:10 ◼   ► "You can check the seven-day forecast on the screen right now." I don't want that.

00:49:14 ◼   ► Apparently the speakers sound a lot better than it did before, which is good. I find the speakers

00:49:22 ◼   ► on the Echo perfectly fine for what I use, which is for podcasts. I don't listen to music on it

00:49:28 ◼   ► very often. I mean sometimes we will, like if there's a song that someone wants to hear

00:49:33 ◼   ► you can just shout out and get it, but like we're not sitting around and having like a

00:49:36 ◼   ► new album listening party around the Echo. But if I'm listening to a podcast I would

00:49:42 ◼   ► just ask it to connect to my phone over Bluetooth, which it does really easily. By the way, in

00:49:47 ◼   ► case you didn't know that, if you just say whatever the wake word is like Echo connect

00:49:50 ◼   ► to my phone, it just starts a Bluetooth pairing process and then if you pair it through it

00:49:54 ◼   ► it once, it just connects to your phone immediately.

00:49:56 ◼   ► And then I will just play my podcast that way.

00:49:59 ◼   ► So I do that a lot, and for podcasts,

00:50:01 ◼   ► the speaker's fine, so it gets pretty loud.

00:50:03 ◼   ► But apparently the Echo Show is even better than that,

00:50:05 ◼   ► which is great.

00:50:06 ◼   ► The thing that, one of the big things that they've added,

00:50:11 ◼   ► one of the big things that's going on here,

00:50:13 ◼   ► is the calling, right?

00:50:15 ◼   ► The video calling.

00:50:18 ◼   ► And I remain unconvinced about this.

00:50:21 ◼   ► I've now seen videos of people doing this in real world environments and I still think

00:50:26 ◼   ► it's awkward.

00:50:27 ◼   ► So it is a device in a fixed position.

00:50:31 ◼   ► I've said this before, so if you want to make a video call, you have to get up and go to

00:50:36 ◼   ► the device, right, wherever you are.

00:50:37 ◼   ► You have to go to the device, which is not how it works anymore, right?

00:50:42 ◼   ► When the phone rings, people, when people's phone rings in 2017, they're not getting up

00:50:48 ◼   ► and going to the hallway to pick up the handset anymore.

00:50:52 ◼   ► They pick up their phone.

00:50:54 ◼   ► And the thing is, video calling is not something that only this device can do.

00:50:59 ◼   ► All of our devices can do video calling.

00:51:01 ◼   ► The idea of someone's calling me, I must get up and go to that device, it just seems like

00:51:07 ◼   ► a step back rather than a step forward.

00:51:10 ◼   ► I also don't like that the way that the device is set up, for most people, it's going to

00:51:17 ◼   ► to be pointed up at you, which is not really a good or flattering angle to have a device

00:51:23 ◼   ► below you looking up. Right? Because that's how it's kind of set. And like that just is

00:51:29 ◼   ► not a great angle. So what's typically going to happen, people bending down like bending

00:51:34 ◼   ► over a counter, like kind of leaning on a counter to talk to someone. Like I just don't

00:51:39 ◼   ► think that this is a good way to have a video call. It just doesn't work for me. I just

00:51:45 ◼   ► I don't understand why anybody would choose to use the Echo Show for their video calling

00:51:52 ◼   ► over any of the other devices that they have in their home that has a camera on it.

00:51:56 ◼   ► It doesn't make sense to me.

00:51:58 ◼   ► I mean I kind of get the appeal of the hands-free video calling, like you don't have to hold

00:52:03 ◼   ► your phone, you can walk around, but the problem as you say is the angle.

00:52:08 ◼   ► It's like I was watching this video and it's like you need to lean over the device and

00:52:15 ◼   ► And it does feel unintuitive compared to just having my phone and I can walk around.

00:52:21 ◼   ► So I get the feeling that Amazon wanted to strike a balance between there's video calling

00:52:25 ◼   ► but you don't even need to hold your phone, but they're forgetting that from that angle

00:52:29 ◼   ► and from that kind of placement, it's still worse than having an iPhone or any smartphone

00:52:35 ◼   ► with FaceTime or video calling.

00:52:37 ◼   ► I will concede, as you said, that the idea of it being hands-free, that you would say

00:52:41 ◼   ► say like, "Hey, call mum," and then it would do that,

00:52:44 ◼   ► and you could talk to your mum, right?

00:52:46 ◼   ► Like, while you're walking around the kitchen

00:52:47 ◼   ► without ever touching a device.

00:52:49 ◼   ► It's great because that's why we like these devices

00:52:51 ◼   ► in the first place, right?

00:52:52 ◼   ► Like, that's why I like my Echo

00:52:54 ◼   ► because I can ask it to do things about interrupting me

00:52:58 ◼   ► or going to find something.

00:52:59 ◼   ► Like, that's cool, but that feels like the only use case

00:53:03 ◼   ► that I would ever wanna use this for,

00:53:04 ◼   ► and I don't think that happens to me very often.

00:53:08 ◼   ► Yeah, and I mean ideally the solution I guess would be you have like a pod that follows

00:53:16 ◼   ► you around like a flying camera.

00:53:18 ◼   ► Sure, I think we're a little way away from that though.

00:53:22 ◼   ► That's probably not coming this year.

00:53:24 ◼   ► Not this year, no, no, maybe next year we'll get the Amazon flying pod. I am also really

00:53:31 ◼   ► still not cool with the drop-in feature. Now, I know it's an opt-in thing, right, that you

00:53:43 ◼   ► have to opt-in to say you want people to drop in on you. And this is the idea that if you

00:53:47 ◼   ► have, if two people have a show, you probably can do it with the app as well, to one of

00:53:52 ◼   ► the Echo shows. You can say, "I am allowing this person to drop in on me." And that means

00:53:57 ◼   ► that they can just pop up at a certain point and then you can accept a call from them or

00:54:03 ◼   ► they can just appear and you can see them and they can see you once this smoke clears

00:54:10 ◼   ► away.

00:54:11 ◼   ► I just don't like this.

00:54:12 ◼   ► The reason I don't like this is it's not like a security feature but it's because I don't

00:54:20 ◼   ► like phone calls.

00:54:22 ◼   ► I do not like when my phone rings and I have to drop everything to give someone my full

00:54:30 ◼   ► attention no matter what I'm doing.

00:54:32 ◼   ► I don't want another communication method in my life where this is occurring.

00:54:38 ◼   ► That like all of a sudden the screen lights up on my Echo Show which is in the kitchen

00:54:42 ◼   ► and it's like mum is here to drop in or however it is that it starts these calls.

00:54:47 ◼   ► And then she's waiting now and the expectation is I should be answering because we've given

00:54:51 ◼   ► each other this two-way thing where she's allowed to drop in on me and I'm allowed to

00:54:56 ◼   ► drop in on her. I don't want something else like this in my life and I just don't think

00:55:02 ◼   ► it makes sense. Just initiate a call if you really want to. Why did we need to have this

00:55:08 ◼   ► drop in as well? I get that and I also get it creeps some people out. They don't like

00:55:14 ◼   ► the idea of breaking down a barrier. I understand that. As with a lot of these things, I think

00:55:19 ◼   ► "Look, it's opt-in, you choose who it's gonna be."

00:55:22 ◼   ► Me personally, I just don't want another way in my life

00:55:26 ◼   ► where people can just arrive and demand my attention.

00:55:31 ◼   ► - I mean, I love my mother,

00:55:32 ◼   ► but I can see how this could go totally wrong

00:55:35 ◼   ► as she would just use it--

00:55:35 ◼   ► - It would drive me crazy.

00:55:37 ◼   ► All, every single day. - As an excuse to drop in

00:55:39 ◼   ► and be like, "Hey, I'm just hanging out in the kitchen,"

00:55:41 ◼   ► or like in the other room,

00:55:42 ◼   ► and I can hear my mom from the kitchen,

00:55:44 ◼   ► even though my mom is not here.

00:55:46 ◼   ► She's just like dropping in at random times,

00:55:48 ◼   ► like "hey why don't you come over and talk to your mother" like no I don't want to talk to you

00:55:52 ◼   ► you know just I can see how

00:55:56 ◼   ► especially for Italian parents and here I'm going full this is not just an Italian parents thing

00:56:05 ◼   ► then like that my mom would be exactly the same okay then parents again I also love my mom very

00:56:11 ◼   ► much oh yes but I really don't need to give her another way to get in contact with me no we're

00:56:17 ◼   ► We could.

00:56:18 ◼   ► You know, I disabled read receipts for my mom.

00:56:24 ◼   ► So she doesn't know when to read them.

00:56:26 ◼   ► I'm sorry, but you know, it creates an expectation that, and I should say my mom is not like,

00:56:32 ◼   ► she doesn't fully understand the process of working from home.

00:56:35 ◼   ► She just thinks that it's okay to call me at just any random time.

00:56:41 ◼   ► You know, how can you be busy?

00:56:42 ◼   ► You're a home.

00:56:43 ◼   ► And if I don't reply straight away, she starts texting like "What's happening?"

00:56:49 ◼   ► Nothing's happening, mom, I'm just working!

00:56:51 ◼   ► My mom sends the same message over and over and over again until I answer, as if like,

00:56:56 ◼   ► I don't know, like it's stuck in the queue somewhere? I don't know.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Yeah, and then when I tell her like "Hey, I'm working" and she gets upset because like

00:57:05 ◼   ► "Hey, I was just trying to call you!"

00:57:08 ◼   ► I just wanted to talk to my son, you know?

00:57:11 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, that's what happened.

00:57:13 ◼   ► And then when she discovered iMessage stickers, so now instead of texting, she sends stickers

00:57:20 ◼   ► as sort of like a pre-emptive move to get in touch with me.

00:57:24 ◼   ► My mum found emoji.

00:57:25 ◼   ► Same thing.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Yeah, so with the drop-in, I think that could go totally wrong.

00:57:34 ◼   ► Especially now that I have my own place and, you know, she craves the contact and the FaceTime

00:57:40 ◼   ► call and the daily phone call, if I give her access to drop in on my echo, that would go

00:57:48 ◼   ► sideways in very ugly ways. So I get it, I get it. And it's not about the weirdness,

00:57:56 ◼   ► really. I'm okay with it. It's up to you, you can do it if you want, otherwise it's

00:58:00 ◼   ► disabled by default. It's more about the...

00:58:03 ◼   ► All of the practicalities and the social expectations that this would make me have to bend my life

00:58:09 ◼   ► to deal with that I don't want.

00:58:11 ◼   ► If I'm using it in the way that Amazon expects.

00:58:14 ◼   ► I mean, let's be real, right?

00:58:16 ◼   ► No one's gonna use this, right?

00:58:18 ◼   ► Like based upon even if the amount of people that buy this,

00:58:21 ◼   ► the percentage of people that are even gonna use

00:58:23 ◼   ► the video calling, I think will be quite small.

00:58:26 ◼   ► Because if you already have a video calling arrangement

00:58:29 ◼   ► in your family, you don't wanna change that, right?

00:58:32 ◼   ► Like it was, everybody knows how hard it was

00:58:35 ◼   ► to just get grandma set up on Skype, right?

00:58:38 ◼   ► or to get anti-ethyl set up on FaceTime.

00:58:41 ◼   ► Like, you don't wanna now go and do it all

00:58:43 ◼   ► on Amazon service.

00:58:45 ◼   ► So I really don't imagine a high usage of this,

00:58:50 ◼   ► but I just, I don't want it, personally.

00:58:52 ◼   ► The Echo Show, to me,

00:58:56 ◼   ► feels even more like a kitchen-focused device

00:59:00 ◼   ► than even the other Echos.

00:59:01 ◼   ► Like, all of the additional things that it would do,

00:59:05 ◼   ► I feel like, really fit the kitchen environment.

00:59:07 ◼   ► you know like recipes and stuff like that like it's great to have on the screen I feel

00:59:12 ◼   ► like it even more is useful in that environment right like that it has more uses that could

00:59:17 ◼   ► occur in the kitchen than maybe ever before I think and I personally am not I am not in

00:59:23 ◼   ► any rush to buy this after seeing these reviews I do feel a little more keen on it than before

00:59:29 ◼   ► because I actually think the the UI design looks pretty nice it looks nice and clear

00:59:34 ◼   ► And overall, the reviews have been pretty positive about the device, except, you know,

00:59:40 ◼   ► there are some there are some issues.

00:59:41 ◼   ► I mean, we've already spoke about them.

00:59:43 ◼   ► Like it seems to do a lot of the things that I like on my Echo better because there is

00:59:49 ◼   ► another thing, right?

00:59:50 ◼   ► So like I said, like with the timers, with the weather, with songs, it shows the lyrics.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Like it comes with a lot of things that would enhance my current usage of the Amazon Echo.

01:00:01 ◼   ► But it also comes with a slew of features that I don't want to use and don't think I

01:00:06 ◼   ► will use, so I'm in no rush to upgrade.

01:00:10 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm happy that I cancelled my order, honestly.

01:00:16 ◼   ► Looking at it, looking at the device itself.

01:00:18 ◼   ► I mean, I wouldn't have space for this anyway, but looking at the device, looking at the

01:00:22 ◼   ► like the interactions and the weird angle, I thought the camera angle would be better,

01:00:26 ◼   ► honestly.

01:00:27 ◼   ► I'm glad that I didn't spend my money on this.

01:00:30 ◼   ► And there's a part of me that kind of wants to play with this, if only from the tech guy

01:00:37 ◼   ► kind of perspective, just out of curiosity.

01:00:41 ◼   ► But I think we're fine with the standard echo experience, like the audio experience for

01:00:46 ◼   ► now.

01:00:47 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm keen to see what people like Steven and Dan Moran have to say.

01:00:54 ◼   ► Because they're people like me, right, like who I know, and I know their sensibilities.

01:00:58 ◼   ► I'm interested to see their opinion on this device as well,

01:01:03 ◼   ► rather than just the general reviews

01:01:06 ◼   ► that are maybe tailored towards

01:01:07 ◼   ► a slightly broader audience, right?

01:01:08 ◼   ► That I feel like the ones that we've seen so far,

01:01:10 ◼   ► 'cause they're bigger, but these, you know,

01:01:12 ◼   ► I'm interested in people that I know

01:01:15 ◼   ► how they feel about it.

01:01:16 ◼   ► That's what I'm keen on seeing now.

01:01:18 ◼   ► So I guess we'll start to get some of that

01:01:19 ◼   ► over the next couple of weeks.

01:01:20 ◼   ► So I think these things are starting to arrive now, right?

01:01:24 ◼   ► Like I think that was the point, you can buy it now.

01:01:26 ◼   ► They're starting to, they should be arriving now.

01:01:28 ◼   ► I don't know, they're available now, I think.

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01:03:41 ◼   ► Federico, so in our current weekly education of iOS section of the show, we're going to

01:03:50 ◼   ► turn our focus to ARKit this week.

01:03:53 ◼   ► Yes.

01:03:54 ◼   ► The reason is because Twitter went wild over the weekend as a bunch of ARKit demos were

01:04:01 ◼   ► being shown off and there is a great website and Twitter account called Made with ARKit

01:04:07 ◼   ► which is collecting a bunch of video examples of applications that are currently being made

01:04:14 ◼   ► and or demos that are currently being put together of what ARKit can do.

01:04:21 ◼   ► Now one of the ones that kind of really caught fire over the weekend was a measuring app

01:04:26 ◼   ► demo where you could use your iPhone to measure something and it's within a realm, right?

01:04:36 ◼   ► It's not 100% perfect, right?

01:04:39 ◼   ► So like if you're somebody who is building a house, maybe you shouldn't use your AR kit

01:04:45 ◼   ► measuring app, but if you're just trying to make sure like, oh, will this sofa fit in

01:04:49 ◼   ► the room?

01:04:50 ◼   ► Like most people I think who have a measuring tape are just checking stuff like that, you

01:04:53 ◼   ► you could use your phone for it instead and I could imagine myself doing that right when

01:04:56 ◼   ► I'm going to IKEA I just want to see if I have enough space I don't need like millimeter

01:05:01 ◼   ► precision most of the time unless I'm really trying to squeeze stuff in. So this is one

01:05:05 ◼   ► thing there's stuff like mine there's like a Minecraft demo there's a bunch of things

01:05:10 ◼   ► with like spaceships it seems to be a lot of space related stuff right now but it's

01:05:15 ◼   ► really kind of just showing what can be done with this technology and I am

01:05:24 ◼   ► getting really excited about ARKit. I think that it's gonna be one of

01:05:32 ◼   ► the real breakout features of iOS 11. We just didn't know that, right? Like I feel

01:05:38 ◼   ► like there's gonna be so many cool things whether it's like games or

01:05:43 ◼   ► or utilities or just experiences

01:05:46 ◼   ► that you'll be able to do with this stuff,

01:05:48 ◼   ► that people will just be like screaming

01:05:50 ◼   ► to update their phones

01:05:51 ◼   ► when they see what their friends can do.

01:05:52 ◼   ► Right, like I really feel like this is gonna be

01:05:54 ◼   ► one of those things where it's like,

01:05:56 ◼   ► oh my God, how did you get that game

01:05:58 ◼   ► where you're shooting Space Invaders around the office?

01:06:01 ◼   ► Oh, you have to get it from the app store,

01:06:02 ◼   ► but you need iOS 11.

01:06:04 ◼   ► Right, like I really do feel like

01:06:05 ◼   ► it's gonna be one of those things,

01:06:07 ◼   ► because look at Pokemon Go, right?

01:06:09 ◼   ► Pokemon Go was successful.

01:06:10 ◼   ► It was what it was because of the AR.

01:06:12 ◼   ► It was the fact that you could walk around in the world and there were Pokemon.

01:06:16 ◼   ► That was the one game and app that people played.

01:06:19 ◼   ► And as well, AR games and apps are going to be easy to sell to people because they'll

01:06:23 ◼   ► say "It's like Pokemon Go."

01:06:25 ◼   ► Everybody knows what that means.

01:06:28 ◼   ► The more and more that I'm seeing of it, as well, the more and more I'm impressed

01:06:32 ◼   ► at what Apple has been able to create with this.

01:06:35 ◼   ► You've watched some of the sessions, right?

01:06:37 ◼   ► So we're going to talk about that.

01:06:39 ◼   ► But for someone who doesn't really know about the details like me, I've been very impressed

01:06:46 ◼   ► with what they've done with this because this feels like a technology that Apple are kind

01:06:51 ◼   ► of bringing to the market en masse first, which is not normal for them.

01:06:58 ◼   ► There have been little SDKs and stuff like that that people are using, we're talking

01:07:02 ◼   ► about Planet of the Apes one of course, Pokemon Go, but there haven't been, as far as I'm

01:07:08 ◼   ► aware publicly available, effectively free SDKs of this caliber that people can develop

01:07:16 ◼   ► against.

01:07:17 ◼   ► Google has their project Tango, but that hasn't really given any consumer desire.

01:07:26 ◼   ► It seems to be a very specific hardware is required.

01:07:29 ◼   ► I think they have a phone or a tablet or it's like a phablet that you have to have, the

01:07:33 ◼   ► Tango phone.

01:07:34 ◼   ► and it's doing some stuff that is interesting data-wise and building up some interesting things,

01:07:39 ◼   ► but I haven't seen BB8 rolling around on a Project Tango demo.

01:07:45 ◼   ► This world of awesome AR projects seems like something that Apple is really pushing for first,

01:07:52 ◼   ► and the more and more I see of it, honestly the more and more that I'm willing to say that Tim was right and I was wrong

01:08:00 ◼   ► about where Apple's focus should have been,

01:08:03 ◼   ► because I was worried that they shouldn't be focusing on AR,

01:08:06 ◼   ► they should be focusing on VR.

01:08:08 ◼   ► And now I see that behind the scenes

01:08:10 ◼   ► they had a VR project the whole time.

01:08:12 ◼   ► I now agree that like for the iPhone,

01:08:14 ◼   ► like for what is the core of their business,

01:08:17 ◼   ► it makes so much sense to have these AR tools available

01:08:21 ◼   ► and ARKit available because it's giving people

01:08:24 ◼   ► a whole new type of application that they can build

01:08:28 ◼   ► that couldn't have been made before.

01:08:31 ◼   ► The thing about ARKit is that it tends to be the opposite.

01:08:35 ◼   ► Like with this, usually with major technologies,

01:08:39 ◼   ► Apple tends to test them privately in their apps first

01:08:44 ◼   ► and then roll them out to developers.

01:08:46 ◼   ► But now this is such a big effort

01:08:49 ◼   ► and such a big thing for the future.

01:08:51 ◼   ► I find it fascinating that they want to start building this

01:08:55 ◼   ► with help from developers.

01:08:57 ◼   ► This is basically what it is.

01:08:59 ◼   ► They're asking the developer community

01:09:01 ◼   ► to test this project at scale.

01:09:04 ◼   ► And I assume Apple is gonna use this project

01:09:09 ◼   ► with ARKit and the developer community

01:09:12 ◼   ► to improve the framework for whatever next big thing

01:09:16 ◼   ► they are doing next, whether it's a new iPhone app

01:09:19 ◼   ► or it's a new Apple Maps experience

01:09:23 ◼   ► or some improvements to the iPhone camera.

01:09:25 ◼   ► So I think it's fascinating.

01:09:27 ◼   ► First, I think it's so fascinating

01:09:29 ◼   ► that Apple is doing the opposite of what they would usually do in terms of iOS technologies.

01:09:37 ◼   ► But the thing about AR is also the fact that it's social and you can demo it to people

01:09:44 ◼   ► on your phone and because it blends the real world with software, it's so much easier to

01:09:51 ◼   ► explain on a tiny phone, well, tiny with context.

01:09:57 ◼   ► In the grand scheme of screens.

01:09:59 ◼   ► On the grand screen, exactly. It's so much easier to demo this in any kind of social environment,

01:10:04 ◼   ► whether it's at the office or at the dog park or around the house, than a headset.

01:10:10 ◼   ► So I agree with you, they are right to bet on this, especially in connection with the App Store,

01:10:16 ◼   ► because there's going to be a curiosity, like...

01:10:19 ◼   ► These apps are gonna advertise themselves, even just by word of mouth, like...

01:10:27 ◼   ► Yep.

01:10:28 ◼   ► everybody's gonna be talking about these apps.

01:10:30 ◼   ► - You know this is one of those things, right?

01:10:32 ◼   ► iOS 11 comes out and you drop like $50 immediately, right?

01:10:36 ◼   ► Like, 'cause you're like, I just wanna see all of this.

01:10:39 ◼   ► - What I'm curious to know is if we will,

01:10:42 ◼   ► so all of these demos that Made with ARKit is sharing,

01:10:47 ◼   ► I want to see if they will end up being full games

01:10:51 ◼   ► or just demos you can download for free.

01:10:55 ◼   ► If these developers are playing with this stuff now

01:10:58 ◼   ► and they plan to make actual products out of this,

01:11:00 ◼   ► if there will be more games than utilities,

01:11:04 ◼   ► like what kind of apps,

01:11:05 ◼   ► what kind of games we will be able to download?

01:11:08 ◼   ► Because right now, yes, it is super fun to watch a rocket,

01:11:11 ◼   ► like a SpaceX rocket land in your backyard.

01:11:16 ◼   ► That is super fun.

01:11:17 ◼   ► Is that an app or is that just a demo

01:11:19 ◼   ► that you put out on YouTube?

01:11:21 ◼   ► I don't know. - Yeah.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Oh, it's like a one-time thing that you do

01:11:23 ◼   ► and then you maybe show it to a friend.

01:11:25 ◼   ► Like, you know, you're right.

01:11:26 ◼   ► we may not see huge games in September,

01:11:31 ◼   ► but I'm confident that there will be some.

01:11:34 ◼   ► I mean, there's gonna be that,

01:11:36 ◼   ► the one that they showed on stage, right?

01:11:37 ◼   ► The Infinity Blade of this year,

01:11:40 ◼   ► which was it Epic who made that?

01:11:42 ◼   ► You remember like they had that--

01:11:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, the--

01:11:45 ◼   ► - The tabletop westerny thing

01:11:47 ◼   ► with the guy jumping-- - Yeah, that was awesome.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Yeah. - I think that's gonna be

01:11:49 ◼   ► available, so that's one thing,

01:11:53 ◼   ► but yeah, I agree.

01:11:55 ◼   ► what will we see?

01:11:57 ◼   ► I mean, we really don't know yet.

01:11:58 ◼   ► And I think if you weren't already developing a game

01:12:02 ◼   ► with this type of thing in mind,

01:12:03 ◼   ► I don't know if you can build a really full experience

01:12:06 ◼   ► in three months.

01:12:08 ◼   ► - But even if we won't have in three months,

01:12:13 ◼   ► a hundred games and a hundred apps for ARKit,

01:12:17 ◼   ► what Apple is doing here is impressive.

01:12:20 ◼   ► They are making AR development easy

01:12:25 ◼   ► for developers, and they're not just making this a feature of the next flagship iPhone.

01:12:32 ◼   ► They are rolling out consumer AR and easy to use developer tools for iPhones and devices that run

01:12:41 ◼   ► on the A9 chip and above. So we're talking two years ago, we're talking iPhone success era

01:12:48 ◼   ► devices. An A9 chip, A10 of course, and we have to assume going forward forever. So

01:12:55 ◼   ► They are basically, even if you have an iPhone 6s, you're going to be able to use this stuff.

01:12:59 ◼   ► And what Apple is doing, the work that they are simplifying for developers is a lot.

01:13:05 ◼   ► So ARKit is made of three separate layers. There's of course rendering and the graphic engine,

01:13:11 ◼   ► being able to overimpose graphics on top of what the iPhone is seeing with the camera.

01:13:16 ◼   ► And of course it integrates, that's the final part of the process. It integrates with SyncKit,

01:13:22 ◼   ► SpriteKit, Metal, Unity and Unreal will have support for ARKit in the future.

01:13:27 ◼   ► But behind the scenes, behind the graphics that you see, which is already quite a bit

01:13:32 ◼   ► of help for developers, so you don't have to roll out your custom engine and you can

01:13:36 ◼   ► use the standard tools.

01:13:37 ◼   ► But behind that, there's this thing called VIO, which is Visual Inertial Audometry, on

01:13:44 ◼   ► iOS 11.

01:13:45 ◼   ► It's basically world tracking.

01:13:47 ◼   ► So the ARKit knows the position of your phone in the physical world.

01:13:55 ◼   ► And it can use a bunch of sensors, it can use the gyroscope, the accelerometer, it can

01:14:00 ◼   ► calculate the height, and it can use the iPhone camera to calculate, for example, the amount

01:14:07 ◼   ► of light that is happening in the real world.

01:14:11 ◼   ► And it can understand the position of the iPhone, what the iPhone is seeing, and its

01:14:15 ◼   ► relationship with the real world, with the physical space that the iPhone is in, combining

01:14:22 ◼   ► that with, Apple calls it "Scene Understanding".

01:14:27 ◼   ► So Apple can detect, of course, horizontal planes, so horizontal surface.

01:14:33 ◼   ► That is actually one of the major limitations of ARKit right now.

01:14:36 ◼   ► It cannot understand vertical surfaces like a wall, for example, and that's why most of

01:14:42 ◼   ► the ARKit demos that you're seeing actually use either the ground floor or a desk or a

01:14:48 ◼   ► horizontal surface to work.

01:14:50 ◼   ► But it can understand the horizontal plane, it can understand, again, it can do light

01:14:55 ◼   ► calculations.

01:14:56 ◼   ► And why would you need light?

01:14:57 ◼   ► For example, let's say that you want to put a 3D object in a space, like a cup of coffee,

01:15:03 ◼   ► and you want to make sure that it can sort of create the illusion that it's a virtual

01:15:08 ◼   ► object in a physical space, but it makes sense within that representation with AR. And to

01:15:14 ◼   ► do that, you need to make sure that the lighting on the cup of coffee is at least a credible

01:15:20 ◼   ► representation of what light will look like with a real cup of coffee. And all of this

01:15:27 ◼   ► work is basically abstracted from developers. There's an API, you interweave with it. And

01:15:33 ◼   ► all of these calculations, you don't need to do them yourself.

01:15:37 ◼   ► seems like such an incredible amount of work because I assume it's using the camera sensors

01:15:41 ◼   ► to detect light sources.

01:15:43 ◼   ► It's using the camera, it's using the geolocation, it's using all the sensors that help the iPhone

01:15:54 ◼   ► understand where it is, what kind of scene the iPhone is seeing right now, like what

01:16:01 ◼   ► am I looking at here?

01:16:02 ◼   ► And of course the camera system of the iPhone, all coming together to say, look, here's your

01:16:09 ◼   ► horizontal surface, here's the kind of light representation, and I'm super simplifying

01:16:14 ◼   ► this, but here's the kind of light representation that you want to use.

01:16:18 ◼   ► And here's how you place an object, and you're gonna be able to walk around it, to zoom on

01:16:26 ◼   ► it, and we'll keep the perspective right, we'll keep the light corrections right, and

01:16:31 ◼   ► will allow you to account for changes

01:16:35 ◼   ► in the horizontal plane.

01:16:38 ◼   ► For example, let's say that you're moving

01:16:39 ◼   ► from a desk to a carpet.

01:16:41 ◼   ► And let's say that the texture of the carpet

01:16:44 ◼   ► makes it harder for you to calculate the surface.

01:16:47 ◼   ► You can ask ARKit for that kind of help.

01:16:50 ◼   ► It's so much work that Apple is taking away from developers.

01:16:54 ◼   ► I mean, and it's not like with two API calls.

01:16:57 ◼   ► Now you might can make an ARKit app.

01:16:59 ◼   ► one, two, three AR unit generator?

01:17:03 ◼   ► - Of course you'll have to know what you're doing,

01:17:06 ◼   ► but there's so much work that Apple is taking away

01:17:09 ◼   ► from developers that I believe this is why

01:17:11 ◼   ► it's so fascinating because Apple is not making apps

01:17:16 ◼   ► with AR features, like a big new splashy addition

01:17:21 ◼   ► to the iPhone built-in apps,

01:17:23 ◼   ► but they're going to developers and they're like,

01:17:25 ◼   ► "We made this framework for you.

01:17:28 ◼   ► We're gonna make it easier for you to create AR experiences.

01:17:32 ◼   ► Tell us what you think, and let's see what happens.

01:17:37 ◼   ► And they're working with companies like Niantic.

01:17:39 ◼   ► Pokemon Go is gonna switch from the custom AR engine

01:17:42 ◼   ► to ARKit, so the Pokemon animations on screen

01:17:44 ◼   ► will look more real, and when you throw the Pokeball,

01:17:47 ◼   ► it'll look more realistic.

01:17:49 ◼   ► Ikea is gonna work on, I think this will be the killer app.

01:17:52 ◼   ► You will be able to place furniture in your house

01:17:56 ◼   ► and see what it looks like.

01:17:58 ◼   ► And the best part, I think, is there

01:18:01 ◼   ► will be a shared consistency between all

01:18:04 ◼   ► of these experiences, because they're using

01:18:06 ◼   ► all the same framework and all the same engine on iOS,

01:18:11 ◼   ► instead of having some AR experiences that

01:18:14 ◼   ► work worse than others.

01:18:16 ◼   ► Because I feel like Apple wants to have a baseline experience,

01:18:20 ◼   ► a baseline quality.

01:18:22 ◼   ► And I think if this works, ARKit will

01:18:25 ◼   ► put Apple way above Google and Facebook in terms of consumer adoption. Because if September

01:18:31 ◼   ► comes and Apple has 100 apps with ARKit on the App Store, or 200 apps on the App Store,

01:18:37 ◼   ► those are hundreds of apps available on the App Store for millions of consumers that neither

01:18:42 ◼   ► Google or Facebook have right now. And I think we went from zero, effectively, with Apple

01:18:49 ◼   ► and AR. It was just a bunch of quotes from Tim Cook in interviews to an actual framework

01:18:54 ◼   ► to dozens of demos that are happening today and I'm really excited to see what happens

01:18:59 ◼   ► in September because it just seems unreal that we went from nothing to this in just

01:19:06 ◼   ► one conference.

01:19:08 ◼   ► I'm keen to see the difference that it takes to like, from Google Cardboard or what is

01:19:19 ◼   ► the VR thing called Daydream and like you know you're looking at like the Oculus Gear

01:19:26 ◼   ► VR stuff right these are these are this is the same thinking right that goes into having

01:19:33 ◼   ► all of this stuff is like using your phone to this other thing which can unlock a new

01:19:37 ◼   ► experience but the difference between all of these is that with Apple you don't need

01:19:42 ◼   ► to buy any additional hardware and I'm interested to see what difference that makes on user

01:19:47 ◼   ► adoption because I feel like maybe not a lot of people use Daydream.

01:19:54 ◼   ► Like I'm sure there's a few but it's not every single Google Pixel owner, right?

01:20:00 ◼   ► And I don't think that all of the Google Pixel owners is even really close to the amount

01:20:05 ◼   ► of iPhones that there are in the world, right?

01:20:08 ◼   ► So you're already working with percentages upon percentages.

01:20:12 ◼   ► So I'm keen to see what response we see to ARKit from big developers, big game developers,

01:20:20 ◼   ► big app developers, right?

01:20:21 ◼   ► I feel like there could be the opportunity for this to be a really big thing for iOS.

01:20:27 ◼   ► So I'm super excited about it.

01:20:29 ◼   ► I'm really excited about it.

01:20:30 ◼   ► Like I've got to say, the more and more I learn about all of the stuff that was in iOS

01:20:36 ◼   ► 11. Like this, this for me personally looks like it's shaping to be probably the best

01:20:44 ◼   ► version of iOS. Like for me personally, for my tastes, for what I am looking for, I think

01:20:51 ◼   ► that iOS 11 is probably going to be my favorite.

01:20:55 ◼   ► Mmm, yeah. And in addition to ARKit, I wouldn't underestimate what is going on with Core ML

01:21:03 ◼   ► either, you know, with machine learning.

01:21:05 ◼   ► - Maybe Federico, that can be next time.

01:21:09 ◼   ► You can teach us all about Core ML.

01:21:12 ◼   ► - We can talk about it, but you know,

01:21:14 ◼   ► this is a very kind of sneaky thing that Apple is doing here.

01:21:18 ◼   ► They're entering this space with AR

01:21:20 ◼   ► and with machine learning with ways to make it easy

01:21:23 ◼   ► for developers to add these kind of features to their apps.

01:21:27 ◼   ► And it's so impressive.

01:21:28 ◼   ► And you know, I'm watching the sessions

01:21:32 ◼   ► and talking to people that are going to integrate

01:21:34 ◼   ► with these new frameworks on iOS,

01:21:36 ◼   ► it's so surprising that Apple has been able

01:21:38 ◼   ► to pull this off, honestly.

01:21:40 ◼   ► Because again, we went from saying,

01:21:42 ◼   ► well, is Apple ever getting into AR

01:21:45 ◼   ► or machine learning for real?

01:21:47 ◼   ► And not only did they get into it,

01:21:49 ◼   ► they were like, here you go,

01:21:51 ◼   ► download a bunch of code and start working on this stuff.

01:21:54 ◼   ► And by September, you can make an app on the App Store.

01:21:57 ◼   ► So yeah, iOS 11,

01:22:00 ◼   ► I think it'll surprise us in ways that we didn't expect, even on the iPad.

01:22:08 ◼   ► Of course, files and drag and drop, you can understand the impact when you try with Apple

01:22:14 ◼   ► Mail and with Safari or when you open the Files app and there's iCloud Drive, but I

01:22:19 ◼   ► think when we will get the third-party experiences, when you will see Dropbox living in the Files

01:22:24 ◼   ► app or when you will see apps like Ulysses or an email client doing the custom drag and drop,

01:22:30 ◼   ► then you will be like "huh, that's more than I expected". So I think iOS 11 will surprise us in

01:22:37 ◼   ► ways that we didn't see coming. It was an excellent keynote that Apple did, but there's

01:22:43 ◼   ► a developer story here this year that I'm hoping that by September, combined with the new App Store,

01:22:52 ◼   ► we will spend a lot of money and I feel like there will be an excitement of trying new

01:22:59 ◼   ► things, new apps, both on the iPhone and the iPad, that we haven't felt in years. So I'm

01:23:04 ◼   ► feeling really good about it. But yes, next time we will talk about CoreML. If you want.

01:23:09 ◼   ► I would like to. Well we've made the decision now. So what can we do? CoreML it is. CoreML.

01:23:17 ◼   ► If you want to find out the show notes for this week go to relay.fm/connect-in/148. You

01:23:21 ◼   ► You can find Federico online at maxstories.net and he is @Vittucci.

01:23:26 ◼   ► Our brother in arms, Mr Steven Hackett is at 512pixels.net, he is @ismh on twitter.

01:23:31 ◼   ► I am @imike, I M Y K E. This show is part of Relay FM, we have a bunch more shows.

01:23:37 ◼   ► If you don't listen to Connected or maybe one or two other shows, go check out relay.fm/shows.

01:23:42 ◼   ► I'm sure that there will be something in there which will tickle your fancy to add to your

01:23:46 ◼   ► podcast listening queue.

01:23:48 ◼   ► Thanks again to our fine sponsors this week, the great folk over at Pingdom, Away and Igloo.

01:23:53 ◼   ► And most of all, as always, thank you for listening and we'll be back next time.

01:23:57 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye Federico.

01:23:59 ◼   ► Arrivederci.