158: The EchoSystem
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From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 158.
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Today's show is brought to you by Casper Squarespace and Balance.
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My name is Myke Hurley.
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I am joined by Federico Vitticci. Ciao Federico.
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Welcome back, Myke.
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Thank you very much.
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And Stephen Hackett, how did you?
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The family's back together.
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I know this feels really weird.
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I got off a plane this morning, like five hours ago from America and I'm back in my
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office after one month of being away from my office so my iMac seems like a billboard,
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it's like the biggest screen on the planet.
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Everything is weird, I don't feel like I fully know where I am.
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I also haven't recorded anything in over a week so the wheels might fall off this one,
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basically why I'm attempting to tell everybody. It's fine. It's not a connected without some
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sort of chance of disaster. That's true. It's fine. You should have really just done the
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show from an airplane. You should have bought the internet connection from the flight and
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opened Skype from... I mean, it's not like Skype can get any worse in terms of quality.
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So I'm pretty sure that, you know, the experience for us would have been the same. Can you imagine,
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on an airplane on a night flight and I'm just like "brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
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whiplash from the change of tone that we're about to attempt here. It's gonna
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get serious and then we're gonna talk about your iPad. Okay great.
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September, dear listener, I guess the two of you, my two co-hosts, September is
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National Childhood Cancer Awareness Month and readers of my site will know
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that in September I forgo sponsorship. This year I'm also donating the
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membership and YouTube revenue because I didn't have those things last year and
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now I do, to raise money for St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. It's a
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hospital here in Memphis dedicated to saving the lives of kids with cancer and
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it's really close to my family's heart. Our oldest son is a patient there. So the
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first link in the show notes will be to a page on my website where you can read
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about it. If you haven't read about it before you can see why it's special to
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us, see why St. Jude is special and I would love it if you if you can to help
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support St. Jude this month. They don't charge families a dime for their
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care. So we've received millions of dollars of health care for our son and
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they've never billed me once which is just incredible. So I would love
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for you to support them. Like I said, first link in the show notes. Go check it
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out and many thanks from my family for doing that. So Stephen is trying to raise
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$9,000 this year to help support St. Jude and it says his kids are going to
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around the kids marathon for this. It's already 42% of the goal after just a couple of days.
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I think it would be amazing if this goal could be met by next week. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
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And so connected listeners, please, please, please give whatever you can. I know that
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there's a lot of really worthy causes for charity right now. I understand that there's
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a lot going on in the world. But this is, if you listen to the show and you enjoy what
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we do, this should have some element of importance to you, I think, if you've been following
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us for any period of time. So it would mean the world to all of us if you could give some
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money to St. Jude. So yeah, thank you so much.
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All right, so if I'm following correctly, I listened to last week's episode this morning.
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We discovered that Federico's iPad wasn't bent due to some kind of boiling point issue,
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which I found hilarious.
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Like that somehow a beach in Italy had found the perfect, I don't know, like some kind
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of sun flare, which put you to 100 degrees Celsius, with my understanding, to vent your
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That was really unfortunate.
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Every point from ours was dead, but the iPad was fine.
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So happy you came away unscathed from that Federico.
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Yeah, yeah, that was really a close call.
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I also could really feel your, um, I'm trying to think of the right word. Like, I could
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really feel like a sense of awkwardness, of trepidation from you at the idea of having
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somebody else's iPad. I could feel that. I feel like you didn't say it at the time, but
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I really felt that you were like, "I don't want someone else's iPad!" Which is your concern
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about how your replacement was given to you? It's just more more of a yes I think you're right and
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I think it's a it's a consequence of the fact that I don't like to you know when I'm investing
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my money on big purchases I don't like to buy used things you know because this is money that I save
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you know, my personal savings, whether it's for my new car or my equipment.
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And I really don't like the idea of I'm saving money and I'm given something that's already
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been used and might be damaged in some way that I don't know. I just like the idea of control.
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And I realize that I'm a little obsessed with this idea of something is new and if it's broken,
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I know it's, you know, 90% it's my fault. And I've bought, and I think going back in time,
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this goes back to the problems that I've had with buying used cars. My first three cars were all
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previously owned by someone else. And I've had so many problems and I've wasted so much time and
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money on fixing those problems. And I can, the worst part was not necessarily the time and the
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the money, it was not knowing what the exact cause for those problems were.
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And I, I just said, you know, the next time I'm going to buy, you know, I'm
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going to have a big expense in my life.
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I'm going to save more money.
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I'm going to wait more time, but I will buy something that is new.
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And if it's broken, I, at least I can know what the problem is and what made this
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iPad situation especially bad was that I bought a new iPad but I didn't know what
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the cause was even if it was new and so not knowing what the problem was was
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with the iPad and the potential of now I'm getting a used iPad in return it was
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really the worst of both worlds and I don't know I'm just I can just say that
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you know, when I bought my new car last year I bought a new one and so far, fingers crossed,
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still no problems. So yeah, that was the reason for my trepidation and the, you know, kind of like my
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feeling uneasy with the idea of a refurbished iPad. Because I really don't like when I don't know
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what happened to a product that was owned by someone else. Well I have some good news for you,
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Federico, that according to all of our follow-up, your replacement iPad is
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probably new. Yay! So it's, it's, I think it's probably actually impossible to
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know. So Apple used to use a different serial number for refurbished products.
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That, according to at least one email I have from somebody, I believe that
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practice has come to an end. But it's still early enough in the, in the, in the
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cycle that it's probably, probably new. And even if it is remanufactured, like
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anything you touch or see would be new. So I like you know I view that as like
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you bought a new car but it has bits of old cars in it because they recycle old
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cars. Like it's it's not like they just someone replaced it returned an iPad
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and they shipped it to you directly without like scrubbing the guy's
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fingerprints off. So I think you're fine but I think it's probably new so
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hopefully that that helps you sleep better at night. Yeah it does. I mean you
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could try and send it somewhere for DNA testing. Definitely, definitely don't do
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that. That opens a can of worms you can't reclose.
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Mm-hmm. I think you should send it some of the DNA tests.
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So Steven, you've joined the 20th century.
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Would you like to tell listeners what's next in our document? Yeah, I really don't
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understand what is going on here. Are you crazy, Steven? So I have a story to tell you.
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Is this a midlife crisis?
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I feel like we all have, just looking at this document today, we all have weird stories
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to tell and I think this is, we're going to start with Steven's story.
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So a couple of days ago I bought an album on iTunes and I said this is great, I was
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on my Mac, this album came out, hey I want to have it on my phone.
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And so I buy it on my iMac and I put my phone in its dock to try to sync that album to the
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phone like a normal human being used to do.
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And it just fails.
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Like I don't get an error message.
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It's in the right playlist.
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I confirm this.
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iTunes just won't move it across the USB cable to the phone.
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I restart iTunes.
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I restart my computer.
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I restart my phone.
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I sacrifice some small animals.
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nothing will make this album cross the whatever it is you know two foot long
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USB cable out of my iMac into my phone it just refuses to work I don't use
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iTunes match so I can't do that and this this for some reason just was the last
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straw for me. I know everyone else has had this epiphany many of you years
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ago. I'm a little slow I guess. And so I went to settings on my phone and I
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deleted all my local music and I already had a Spotify account because I have an
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Amazon echo and I put Spotify on my home screen. Yesterday I went through and
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found all the music I want. I downloaded a bunch of music to my phone from
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Spotify which is kind of a terrible user experience. You have to like leave the
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screen on on your phone so the app can stay awake. It's terrible. But after many
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hours I now have my music library rebuilt in Spotify and much of it local
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on my phone and and so yeah so I am I'm all in on on trying this I don't know if
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it's like on the Mac it's weird because iTunes on the Mac like yes it's old and
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and by the way is like a there's a sub point to all this if you don't listen to
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app stories the the podcast Federico does with John Voorhees it's really good
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and this week you all talked about iTunes on the Mac being replaced. It's
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like as I was going through this yesterday I was listening to that podcast
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and I felt like you were my two life coaches like urging me down the road.
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So let me ask you this. Okay. The choice of Spotify comes primarily because you
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have an Amazon Echo and so you want to have that integration. Well and I'm
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already paying for Spotify I didn't want to like okay I have problems with the
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idea of Apple music of like mixing my old library and like streaming stuff and
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I really dislike the music app in general so but primarily was already
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pay for Spotify why not give it a shot so let me ask you this what happens if
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you stick with this if you keep streaming music yes what happens when
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the home pod comes out I don't think I'm gonna buy a home pod I really like the
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And I have I have too much stuff that's echo dependent now that the
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That the home pod won't be able to do easily like what?
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Like I mean like a lot of the the I like a lot of the news stuff that it does
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Every evening we're making dinner. We have the thing read the news to us
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We have some if triggers now
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So we've talked on the show about the canary how that's tied to it like the home pod could take over all my home kit
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stuff because I don't install any smart stuff or try not to that the home kit and Echo both
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can't talk to. I guess the only thing that the Echo can talk to in my home that a HomePod
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cannot is the thermostat. But I already feel really like embedded in the Echo ecosystem.
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I have three of them now.
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Could you call it an Echo system maybe?
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Oh, Myke, please come on.
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Yo, I'm back everyone!
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That's really good. I'm deep in the Amazon ecosystem. I would try the HomePod. I'm really
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curious how it sounds because the Echo sounds like garbage for music. But Amazon could fix
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that tomorrow with a new Echo and I'd be perfectly happy.
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I want to take a pull. I want to start a pull on how long it is until you just give up and
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go back to your local music again. This feels like such a Steven thing, right? To do this,
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go through all the effort and then just give it up like a week later.
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Like when he bought the MacBook and then he did a video and then it changed to another
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Yep, or like, Remember the Milk or Evernote or basically anything.
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I'm gonna go with three weeks to one month before he goes back.
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Alright, I'm gonna take the up to three weeks point then on this.
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Because, I mean, after, I feel like a month, that's pretty, like, you know, I'm going to
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take up to three weeks and then in Federico you can have like between three to four weeks.
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One thing, so I'm in this process of learning all the things that Spotify can do that, again,
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everyone else already knew.
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But so far, one of my favorite things is that if I have music playing on my computer, I
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can control it from my phone.
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Like it's really, like the integration is really nice and I'm listening to something
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my car and I get out of my car and I walk into my office I can just open
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Spotify and like pick up right where I left off like some of that stuff that
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Apple Music and iTunes should totally do but it doesn't because iTunes on the Mac
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is holding it back. There's still a feature somewhere inside of Spotify that
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you might enjoy. It's in the Mac app somewhere where you can upload local
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music to Spotify and download it to your phone so if you have like a specific
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live recording, you can still do that.
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Yeah, I definitely have some stuff like that that's kind of stranded in the old library.
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I know that it can see local files.
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I wonder if I try to add to queue, I don't know, save to your library.
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There's some options here, so I need to dig into that, because I definitely have some
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stuff that I do not want to leave behind in the old library.
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So maybe that means that I still sync that stuff to my phone, or try to whenever, whatever
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bug I hit is resolved. So we'll see. We will see how it goes.
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Yeah, I know it's still in there somewhere. I used to do that feature. I used to use that
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feature quite a lot and I believe it's still in there. So it's worth digging around. But
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I'm pleased you're using Spotify. These services, they're very, very convenient. I'm looking
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forward to you living that convenience. Yeah, so we'll see how it goes. We'll check back
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in I guess. Alright, today's show is brought to you in
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part by our friends at Casper, the company that have created an outrageously comfortable
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- Yeah, Stephen, I know that you have
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a Casper mattress at home.
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I have not seen it.
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I stayed at your house,
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but I actually didn't see your mattress.
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I didn't ask to go test the mattress.
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So can you tell me what your mattress is like?
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- I think you really should have.
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If you just jumped right on it,
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it would have been maybe a little awkward.
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- I don't wanna tell you.
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So we had one of those big foam things before,
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You can get $50 towards any mattress purchase by going to casper.com/connected and using
00:18:26
◼
►
the code connected at checkout.
00:18:28
◼
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Terms and conditions apply.
00:18:29
◼
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Thank you so much to Casper for their support of this show.
00:18:33
◼
►
All right, so Alexander sent in something to us which is so perfect for this show. It
00:18:42
◼
►
is a website called productgraveyard.com and it is a project in which this website features
00:18:52
◼
►
products and services, so like web stuff, web services mostly, that have died and/or
00:18:58
◼
►
probably been sunsetted. And it has a bunch of details of each of the products. You can
00:19:04
◼
►
go in, you can click into the products, and it will tell you the cause of death, the product's
00:19:08
◼
►
lifespan, what it's remembered for, and its last known residence, which I thought was
00:19:13
◼
►
hilarious. And there is a really good entry for kind of a friend of the show, Everpix,
00:19:20
◼
►
which is one of the first products that we really kind of went into in depth that got
00:19:26
◼
►
shut down and there is a nice 2011 to 2013 in memoriam page on the product graveyard
00:19:34
◼
►
website so you can go and see it yourself. I just thought this was really funny and just
00:19:39
◼
►
something worth putting in. They have 1057 deceased products in their library. Honestly,
00:19:46
◼
►
I have no idea why this thing exists. Like I don't know, there isn't really much information
00:19:52
◼
►
on the page that I can find as to like why this was set up.
00:19:55
◼
►
But it's there and it's interesting, it's funny,
00:19:59
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►
and it's also kind of sad.
00:20:00
◼
►
But it is something that I think ties quite nicely
00:20:05
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►
in with this show so I thought I would include that
00:20:06
◼
►
in our follow up today.
00:20:08
◼
►
- I'm flipping through this and I'm trying to find
00:20:10
◼
►
the worst startup name.
00:20:12
◼
►
And I think I did it.
00:20:15
◼
►
- All right.
00:20:15
◼
►
- So there is iZ3D.
00:20:19
◼
►
iZ3D designs and develops stereoscopic 3D visualization systems.
00:20:24
◼
►
I mean, are you sure it's worse than... I got to...
00:20:31
◼
►
That's pretty bad.
00:20:32
◼
►
And hold on, hold on.
00:20:34
◼
►
I cannot say this, but this product was called...
00:20:39
◼
►
Hold on. It was called "Ducks Board" and the logo is a duck.
00:20:47
◼
►
And Duxboard allowed you to visualize and monitor your data in a single platform.
00:20:54
◼
►
That's good.
00:20:55
◼
►
Oh, that's good. Now, I mean, how could it have failed?
00:20:58
◼
►
Yeah. There's a .cloud right there on the same page.
00:21:03
◼
►
Duxboard lived between 2011 and 2014, and it was a web app. So, yeah.
00:21:13
◼
►
I wanted to ask you now that we've talked about this website, what happens if this website shuts down?
00:21:20
◼
►
I think at that point we have to take over and create the product graveyard.com graveyard.com
00:21:26
◼
►
Have you ever wondered what happens to the?
00:21:29
◼
►
Guardian of the graveyard when the Guardian dies, I guess it just goes to the Guardians child to look after
00:21:37
◼
►
Hmm, right. Hmm. That's been my option
00:21:42
◼
►
That is a very grim life goal to perpetuate the role of a graveyard guardian forever.
00:21:51
◼
►
I want to try and lift us out of this funk that we've accidentally walked away into.
00:21:55
◼
►
No, I found Groove Shark.
00:21:57
◼
►
You found what?
00:21:58
◼
►
Groove Shark.
00:21:59
◼
►
Groove Shark.
00:22:00
◼
►
Yeah, that's the thing.
00:22:01
◼
►
What did they do?
00:22:03
◼
►
It was music, I think.
00:22:05
◼
►
There are a lot of companies that start with my, so myteamzone, myhomekey.com, mycube,
00:22:13
◼
►
myfrontsteps, myshape, which is not myspace, myshape, and my personal favorite mylackey.com.
00:22:21
◼
►
Oh no, that's so bad.
00:22:23
◼
►
What about, what about kaptain with two p's for some reason?
00:22:31
◼
►
Like, part of the reason your product fails is because nobody can find your website.
00:22:38
◼
►
It's like, what's the name of your product?
00:22:41
◼
►
Captain, but it's spelt with two P's.
00:22:46
◼
►
I heard a thing once which I really liked, I think it was Kevin Rose who said this, it's
00:22:50
◼
►
like if you can't tell me the name of your product in a bar, I can't invest in it.
00:22:56
◼
►
That's good.
00:22:57
◼
►
That's good.
00:22:58
◼
►
Are you saying that Rotor Communications Corporation is not a good name?
00:23:03
◼
►
So I want to tell you a little story
00:23:10
◼
►
Me and Idina we were going out to the beach and we're on the ferry
00:23:14
◼
►
we're sitting on the ferry run a top deck of the ferry going out to the beach and
00:23:17
◼
►
We're just sitting there and the ferry isn't moving for a while and we're like five or ten minutes past the time period and we
00:23:25
◼
►
keep hearing this like siren there's like a siren playing and like we didn't
00:23:29
◼
►
know where it's coming from we're sitting on a boat it could be anything
00:23:31
◼
►
it's like a just like a doo doo doo sound like that then all of a sudden my phone
00:23:36
◼
►
goes crazy and I have three text messages from Adina that are saying that
00:23:44
◼
►
she is she's she's sounded an emergency call and has given me her location there
00:23:51
◼
►
three of these messages that came through right so it's like adena is in an emergency
00:23:57
◼
►
um i want to see if i can find i'm gonna find the exact wording for you but these came in
00:24:02
◼
►
right and then once that one came in we had another one like a fourth one but this is
00:24:08
◼
►
what we're looking at her phone right so it said emergency sos adena and yam 2 has made
00:24:15
◼
►
an emergency call you are receiving this message because adena has listed you as an emergency
00:24:20
◼
►
contact and it sends her location with a pin on a map. So we had no idea what was going
00:24:25
◼
►
on. We're looking at her phone. There was nothing happening and then like a green bar
00:24:30
◼
►
would appear at the top of the phone, right? And then the green bar would go away and it
00:24:36
◼
►
was calling 911.
00:24:39
◼
►
So she'd also made five 911 calls.
00:24:42
◼
►
It's not good.
00:24:43
◼
►
With varying lengths. The phone is just doing this on its own. So I was like, turn the phone
00:24:47
◼
►
off like I have no idea what's going on but we need to stop you from calling 911
00:24:52
◼
►
she turns her phone off and then like we have no idea what's going on right so it
00:25:00
◼
►
stopped obviously because the phone was off so she turns her phone on again and
00:25:04
◼
►
a little while later we hear a siren then another call is made then her
00:25:10
◼
►
brother calls because this is like 10 minutes have passed at this point her
00:25:15
◼
►
brother calls because he's an emergency contact as well so he thinks there is an
00:25:19
◼
►
emergency right so that's dealt with he's all okay and then I'm like what is
00:25:26
◼
►
going on here so I start googling at this point a fifth I think a fifth
00:25:31
◼
►
emergency call had been made at that point there was five total and this was
00:25:35
◼
►
the fifth one why is this happening can any of you guess what had happened why
00:25:42
◼
►
this was happening. So let me ask you two questions. Was Adina wearing an Apple
00:25:47
◼
►
watch? Not at that moment she wasn't. Does Adina have an iPad? Adina does have an
00:25:53
◼
►
Apple watch she wasn't wearing it she does have an iPad. The watch was in her
00:25:57
◼
►
bag. The watch was in her bag. It was on somehow or the button got smashed in. It
00:26:03
◼
►
was on and the button was being just held. Oh man. Wow. So it was making the
00:26:10
◼
►
calls triggering the emergency SOS turns out if you just hold the button for a
00:26:17
◼
►
long period of time it will trigger the emergency SOS and will continue to do it
00:26:24
◼
►
over and over again now that I don't think is the right cause of action no
00:26:29
◼
►
no especially because the watch was in her bag it was not on her wrist yeah so
00:26:34
◼
►
why would you trigger multiple emergency calls while the user is not
00:26:39
◼
►
wearing the watch. I mean I get one but it was five times so like we were
00:26:44
◼
►
worried like the boat wasn't leaving like oh my god are they sending like a
00:26:47
◼
►
helicopter like what is going on right now right but like 911 obviously get
00:26:52
◼
►
this because the calls were 35 seconds 15 seconds 2 seconds and then they were
00:26:56
◼
►
rejecting them so they must have some kind of system that understands either
00:27:02
◼
►
where the call is coming from like what has triggered it so like they know it's
00:27:06
◼
►
an Apple watch or whatever I don't know or that they can see that it's like an error.
00:27:11
◼
►
But yeah so we worked it out and then I was like take that watch out of your bag, turn
00:27:16
◼
►
it off and put it on your wrist. We're not dealing with this anymore. So yeah there you
00:27:21
◼
►
go. It makes a little siren sound. The watch was making a siren sound from her bag but
00:27:25
◼
►
we didn't realise that was the case. And it just kept calling 911 over and over and over
00:27:33
◼
►
That's no good.
00:27:34
◼
►
So that is a funny story, a bit of a mystery, and a word of warning to everybody.
00:27:42
◼
►
I once had a customer a long time ago when I was doing consulting and she would get to
00:27:47
◼
►
work and her MacBook Pro would be hot in her bag.
00:27:51
◼
►
So it was like waking up.
00:27:53
◼
►
And it was a very similar thing except she had a Bluetooth mouse that she wasn't turning
00:27:56
◼
►
off and so it would get like jostled in her bag and it would move the cursor and wake
00:28:02
◼
►
the computer up, but of course the computer's closed in a bag, so it would just get super
00:28:07
◼
►
hot and it was like this cycle, like the machine would wake up and it would do things, like
00:28:11
◼
►
sometimes things would be done, like system purposes would be open, or something she was
00:28:16
◼
►
working on would have a bunch of crazy things in it, because the mouse was getting moved
00:28:22
◼
►
around and jostled as she walked and put the bag in her car and stuff. It's a weird thing
00:28:26
◼
►
until you figure out what's going on.
00:28:30
◼
►
There are already a bunch of people in the chat room saying that they've done this exact
00:28:33
◼
►
thing with the Apple Watch to the point where people are just turning the feature off.
00:28:37
◼
►
I think I may do that, actually I didn't know you could.
00:28:39
◼
►
I think I'm gonna, once we're done today, I'm just gonna turn this feature off from
00:28:42
◼
►
Adina's watch.
00:28:44
◼
►
It's coming to the iPhone, this thing, as well, right?
00:28:46
◼
►
Was it like, you press the home button five times and it activates an emergency mode?
00:28:53
◼
►
So what it does, so I'm gonna do mine right now.
00:28:55
◼
►
Oh no, don't call it emergency mode.
00:28:56
◼
►
So it brings up a new screen that has slide to power off,
00:29:00
◼
►
and then medical ID, and then the emergency SOS.
00:29:03
◼
►
You have to drag over.
00:29:05
◼
►
So if I drag it over, I can see my medical ID.
00:29:08
◼
►
There's a picture of me and weight and sort of stuff.
00:29:10
◼
►
But that's also what's being referred to as cop mode,
00:29:15
◼
►
where you have to re-enter your PIN to unlock the phone.
00:29:19
◼
►
It doesn't--
00:29:20
◼
►
- Yeah, 'cause when you do this--
00:29:20
◼
►
- It disables touch ID.
00:29:22
◼
►
- Yeah, you hit it five times,
00:29:23
◼
►
and then touch ID doesn't work anymore, right?
00:29:25
◼
►
you have to enter your code in. So like if you're in a sticky situation you hit
00:29:30
◼
►
the home button five times and then it disables touch ID which is cool. Mm-hmm
00:29:35
◼
►
yeah it's great that it's there but yeah it's it's definitely can be done
00:29:40
◼
►
accidentally. Yeah I wonder I wonder if there is a way to trigger the emergency
00:29:44
◼
►
call automatically from that like in the way that there is from the Apple watch
00:29:49
◼
►
because I would I would be concerned about that. I don't think there is I
00:29:52
◼
►
I think you've got to slide it over you gotta use that little multi-toed slider multi-toed slider.
00:29:56
◼
►
I hope that's the case. But yes there you go turns out you just hold that button down and
00:30:01
◼
►
you will continue to call 911 over and over and over again until somebody works out what's happened.
00:30:06
◼
►
Oh I'm glad it wasn't a real emergency. Me too. Apple has killed the Apple Music Festival.
00:30:12
◼
►
It's dead 10 years and it's gone away. Yeah rest in peace I guess.
00:30:18
◼
►
Yeah, I mean, this is an interesting thing for me.
00:30:21
◼
►
Like it kind of seems like Apple confirmed this to some music industry
00:30:26
◼
►
blogs, websites.
00:30:28
◼
►
It feels kind of to me now more than ever, it makes sense for them to have this big
00:30:33
◼
►
Apple Music Festival, like making live recordings of these festivals available to
00:30:38
◼
►
Apple Music subscribers, making the videos available to Apple Music subscribers.
00:30:43
◼
►
that seems like a more compelling use case than ever before.
00:30:48
◼
►
Like the iTunes Music Festival always felt like
00:30:51
◼
►
this weird thing that they kind of just did
00:30:53
◼
►
for the sake of doing it.
00:30:55
◼
►
But I mean, I would maybe argue that in a way,
00:30:59
◼
►
I mean, Steven, you can disagree with this.
00:31:00
◼
►
I've been wondering if this is true or not.
00:31:02
◼
►
If kind of financially music is more important to Apple
00:31:07
◼
►
than it's ever been, would be my, my posit here.
00:31:12
◼
►
Now I know that of course the iPod was a huge, massive,
00:31:16
◼
►
massive important part of the company,
00:31:19
◼
►
but it was maybe more sales of the iPod
00:31:21
◼
►
than sales of music that was important?
00:31:24
◼
►
- Yeah, I think, to the bottom line, I think so.
00:31:26
◼
►
- Yeah, and now the services revenue
00:31:30
◼
►
is such an important part of Apple
00:31:32
◼
►
from Wall Street's perspective,
00:31:34
◼
►
and Apple Music is a linchpin of that,
00:31:37
◼
►
that it kind of feels interesting to me now
00:31:39
◼
►
that like to get rid of a potential feature for Apple Music subscribers? Yeah
00:31:45
◼
►
I mean I think that they are maybe they're trying to focus or like shift
00:31:51
◼
►
focus like they're getting rid of this but then they're also doing a bunch of
00:31:54
◼
►
TV stuff like yeah so that that's the what kind of comes to mind for me like
00:31:58
◼
►
if this is something that they are getting rid of then like what what's
00:32:02
◼
►
replacing it and maybe it is that TV stuff maybe they're gonna do you know
00:32:08
◼
►
They used to do a lot more of this where a band would go into an Apple store and do something
00:32:13
◼
►
like acoustically or whatever and then they'd record it and release it.
00:32:17
◼
►
I forget what the name of those were.
00:32:19
◼
►
They had a name for that series.
00:32:22
◼
►
But maybe they're doing more stuff like that and not this giant festival concert thing.
00:32:26
◼
►
I don't know.
00:32:27
◼
►
Well, there's this article in the show notes from musicbusinessworld.com where they mention
00:32:32
◼
►
the fact that it seems like Apple has been focusing in some other areas.
00:32:36
◼
►
So there have been some concerts recently that have been sponsored by Apple Music or
00:32:41
◼
►
kind of in conjunction with.
00:32:43
◼
►
So artists like Haim and Arcade Fire have done gigs where Apple has been a partner of
00:32:48
◼
►
it and they also in last summer, Apple Music was the sponsor of Drake's 32-Date Tour.
00:32:54
◼
►
So it might be that they're kind of pushing the Apple Music branding into already existing
00:33:00
◼
►
events as opposed to hosting their own.
00:33:02
◼
►
But it is a shame though because the iTunes Music Festival, the Apple Music Festival was
00:33:07
◼
►
always this cool thing that happened in London and it is a shame that I never got to go to
00:33:13
◼
►
it even though I applied for tickets every single year.
00:33:17
◼
►
Maybe that's the problem though, right?
00:33:19
◼
►
Maybe they want to do more US based events instead of being in London.
00:33:24
◼
►
Yeah, maybe.
00:33:25
◼
►
Maybe that's it.
00:33:26
◼
►
Didn't they do something last year though?
00:33:29
◼
►
It was South by Southwest, right?
00:33:30
◼
►
Yeah, it was a Southwest West, they did some kind of mini concert or something, I think.
00:33:37
◼
►
I don't remember who was the artist, honestly. But yeah, that's the idea, I guess, of doing
00:33:42
◼
►
more smaller events throughout the US and other continents, maybe. I don't know. But
00:33:49
◼
►
instead of having to organize this huge event, which must be not just from a financial perspective,
00:33:54
◼
►
but also from an organizational point of view, it's a big thing to organize. Like a week,
00:34:00
◼
►
days in London, you know, flying artists in and streaming everything and setting up the entire
00:34:05
◼
►
organization and event, that's a lot of time and money and maybe they think that having more
00:34:13
◼
►
presence at concerts and other events is a better strategy. I don't know.
00:34:17
◼
►
I'm sad because it was kind of cool, you know?
00:34:20
◼
►
Yeah, it's a thing that I think we'll miss but I'm interested to see if they push into
00:34:28
◼
►
working on other events and maybe it will like, the spirit will live on with the music festival
00:34:34
◼
►
but as a more segmented and something that's spread around a little bit more but yeah it's
00:34:40
◼
►
something that I will miss anyway but it's interesting to see where they're going to go
00:34:44
◼
►
with this. So I mean I would expect it's definitely not a money thing right, it's not like they can't
00:34:49
◼
►
afford this. I assume there is just some change in direction here that they're going to start to put
00:34:56
◼
►
Alright, today's show is also brought to you by Squarespace. You can enter the offer code
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So Siri has moved in with Craig.
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I know that seems like it's just gossip, but the story is, as was the end of last week
00:36:45
◼
►
I think, that the Apple leadership page now reflects that the Siri organization is now
00:36:51
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underneath Craig Federighi.
00:36:52
◼
►
It was previously under Eddy Cue, which I think maybe made sense in the beginning, but
00:36:58
◼
►
I think for a long time seemed sort of a stranger and stranger place for Siri to be.
00:37:04
◼
►
And now Apple has changed that, at least publicly.
00:37:07
◼
►
We don't know when it actually happened.
00:37:08
◼
►
I guess maybe it's been this way for a while, but according to the public page now, this
00:37:15
◼
►
is the deal.
00:37:16
◼
►
Siri has moved.
00:37:17
◼
►
As our resident historian, Steven, can you explain why Siri was ever under Q's division?
00:37:27
◼
►
used to have like an oddball assortment of services and I think that that has
00:37:34
◼
►
streamlined over the years and you know it started as an acquisition and you
00:37:40
◼
►
know maybe that it just wasn't I think I think as it has grown in importance it's
00:37:44
◼
►
become stranger that it was under his his command I think it started as like
00:37:47
◼
►
it's just a service on the iPhone and now it's sort of a whole business and a
00:37:51
◼
►
whole super important part of all their products and so I think it's just sort
00:37:55
◼
►
have evolved out of his purview.
00:37:58
◼
►
Because wasn't, I guess, wasn't there a time when Q had kind of like all cloud
00:38:02
◼
►
services, like mobile me and stuff was under Q's division?
00:38:06
◼
►
I think so, yeah. Yeah.
00:38:07
◼
►
And that was before Forstall left, right?
00:38:11
◼
►
When it was, when the divisions were much different and it got restructured after
00:38:15
◼
►
Forstall. But for some reason, Siri, Siri remained under Q's division.
00:38:19
◼
►
I think probably incorrectly.
00:38:20
◼
►
I just don't think that was the right place for it at that point, because I would
00:38:24
◼
►
expect that they've done this and they've moved it under Craig's banner
00:38:27
◼
►
because they want to make it more core to the operating system would be my
00:38:31
◼
►
thinking. When you consider all the integrations that you know Siri has with
00:38:37
◼
►
iOS and the fact that Puerto Rico overseas has to oversee like stuff like
00:38:43
◼
►
SiriKit for example the frameworks and the you know all the extensions and the
00:38:47
◼
►
direct hooks into the, between Siri and the rest of the local OS.
00:38:53
◼
►
You could argue that Siri is as much a cloud service as it is a native system feature.
00:38:58
◼
►
And so I think it definitely makes more sense to have the same team and the same set of people
00:39:05
◼
►
look into this stuff, even if it means they have to bring in new kinds of expertise,
00:39:11
◼
►
you know, because you need both cloud people and local OS like foundation and iOS people to
00:39:18
◼
►
make Siri and to make sure that it works. But if we consider Q more of the Hollywood
00:39:27
◼
►
impresario type of guy that seems to be his role these days, it makes more sense to have
00:39:32
◼
►
have Siri be part of Federighi's role rather than Q's?
00:39:37
◼
►
- Yeah, I guess, I mean, I would hope that it signals
00:39:44
◼
►
more of a change for Siri, maybe for Siri to step up
00:39:50
◼
►
a little bit more.
00:39:51
◼
►
I think we would all agree that the advancement
00:39:56
◼
►
of Siri has been slow.
00:40:00
◼
►
even as SiriKit has started to become a thing, the intents that are being added to SiriKit
00:40:08
◼
►
are not being added at a breakneck speed. And so maybe it is time considering, I mean
00:40:15
◼
►
we're going to talk about just a slew of smart speaker news in a moment, but I think
00:40:20
◼
►
that we can all agree that maybe Siri is becoming a bit of a thorn in Apple's side as their
00:40:28
◼
►
competitors are to varying levels of success, boosting their efforts.
00:40:35
◼
►
When you look at something like the HomePod, which we all believed was going to be the
00:40:40
◼
►
Siri speaker, at least the last time we saw anything about it, has limited Siri functionality,
00:40:46
◼
►
when really that product, as everybody imagined it, would be the Siri speaker, not an Apple
00:40:52
◼
►
music speaker with some Siri stuff built in.
00:40:54
◼
►
So that's kind of strange because if you look at the HomePod specs and the leaks that came out a few weeks ago, there are all the Siri questions that you can ask natively on iOS.
00:41:07
◼
►
You should be able to get a response from the HomePod. It's just that they didn't open up SiriKit to the HomePod at all.
00:41:14
◼
►
And that's kind of strange, especially if you consider how Apple has been pushing this expansion of Siri to third-party apps.
00:41:22
◼
►
But it also kind of makes sense because there's no App Store for the HomePod.
00:41:27
◼
►
And so we go back to the problem that I think we discussed a few months ago of Siri for Apple is both local and in the cloud.
00:41:36
◼
►
in the cloud in the sense that there's no concept of SiriKit that lives on the web and
00:41:43
◼
►
you can ask for example to do something with Todoist if you don't have the Todoist app
00:41:49
◼
►
installed on your device.
00:41:51
◼
►
So because you cannot install apps on your HomePod therefore you can only ask native
00:41:55
◼
►
features that Apple directly makes and puts into the HomePod firmware.
00:42:01
◼
►
So the bigger question, I guess, is how can Apple follow up to the Amazon Echo, to the
00:42:08
◼
►
Google Home, and now if Sonos is doing something perhaps, how can they turn the HomePod into
00:42:14
◼
►
an app platform without running into the limitations of watchOS?
00:42:18
◼
►
That is, it depends on the iPhone for communication between apps, which makes everything slow
00:42:23
◼
►
and less reliable.
00:42:25
◼
►
So how can they expand Siri to support a variety of commands without having users do stuff
00:42:34
◼
►
like install this app on your phone or make sure your iPhone is within range, you know?
00:42:39
◼
►
So how can they do that?
00:42:40
◼
►
I have no idea.
00:42:44
◼
►
We'll come back to the smart speaker stuff in a second, but can we talk about ediQ for
00:42:50
◼
►
What do you want to talk about?
00:42:52
◼
►
Alright, so I feel like over time, Eddie has become, at least in our community, like a
00:43:03
◼
►
joke, he's become a joke. Like, people use him as a meme, right? Like, there are jokes
00:43:10
◼
►
made about Eddie. And I think a common consensus seems to have arisen that Eddie is no good,
00:43:18
◼
►
right, like that he is bad at his job. And I mean some of the, some of the thinking around
00:43:25
◼
►
this is like a bad Apple Music introduction, right, like just really bad, just like just
00:43:31
◼
►
bad bad. And no Apple TV deals, no TV deals have been announced, right, like people assume
00:43:38
◼
►
and I think rightly so that these fall under his purview, this is his part of the business.
00:43:45
◼
►
So I kind of wonder like I'm assuming that he must be good at his job or parts of his
00:43:54
◼
►
job that we don't see because Tim Cook seemed to have no real problem getting rid of Scott
00:44:01
◼
►
Forstall when Forstall was considered to be a problem. So if Eddy Cue was bad I'm sure
00:44:10
◼
►
that he wouldn't be around anymore, right? I don't know because but then you know at
00:44:16
◼
►
the same time two big parts of his organization have been removed from him and that could
00:44:22
◼
►
mean a million different things, right? Like it doesn't necessarily mean that he's bad
00:44:25
◼
►
at his job but that maybe he was given things that he never really should have been managing
00:44:30
◼
►
in the first place. So when things start to look like they're going wrong it's because
00:44:34
◼
►
well they were in the wrong place. Like Siri shouldn't be, shouldn't have been a part of
00:44:38
◼
►
division, neither should the App Store. Like it didn't make sense considering the other things
00:44:41
◼
►
that he had to look after. So I wonder, like, I wonder, is Eddie Q bad or has he been dealt a bad hand?
00:44:49
◼
►
I tend to see Q as the guy that goes to the Hollywood studio people and other executives and
00:45:01
◼
►
makes deals. Now I don't know what this means specifically, I just have this idea of when
00:45:10
◼
►
Apple needs to go and you know have dinner with some folks from Sony or convince an artist to
00:45:19
◼
►
put out a video on Apple Music or an exclusive on Apple Music, they send Q. That is totally my
00:45:27
◼
►
interpretation I'm not sure if this is correct and I'm sure that the guy has some... like you say Myke
00:45:34
◼
►
it has to do something right otherwise it doesn't seem like Team Cook would just keep him
00:45:40
◼
►
around because they're friends. So either Q is doing something that we have no complete idea of
00:45:49
◼
►
what it is. You know like admin stuff or manager type of stuff that is not easily explainable like
00:45:55
◼
►
Like, I don't even know how to describe it, but you know, the way that these deals are
00:46:01
◼
►
made is pretty obscure to me.
00:46:05
◼
►
Or maybe they just keep him around because he's good at convincing people.
00:46:10
◼
►
He's good at, you know, talking up to with the music studios and work out, for example,
00:46:16
◼
►
a commission fee on streaming.
00:46:19
◼
►
He hasn't been doing well with the TV stuff, it seems.
00:46:23
◼
►
So I wonder if his talents reside mostly in the music industry.
00:46:32
◼
►
That's where I assume because of iTunes and because of the iPod and because of the Steve
00:46:36
◼
►
Jobs legacy, maybe that's where he has the most contacts and connections and leverage
00:46:45
◼
►
on other folks in the industry.
00:46:48
◼
►
I just assume.
00:46:50
◼
►
But yeah, it is kind of a mystery.
00:46:53
◼
►
You know, especially considering he hasn't been at keynotes since last year.
00:47:01
◼
►
Was it two years ago?
00:47:02
◼
►
I don't remember.
00:47:03
◼
►
I mean, last year I can't wait to do it.
00:47:07
◼
►
And that was, I think, his last public appearance, maybe?
00:47:11
◼
►
That's the last chance you get.
00:47:12
◼
►
You say that line and you're done.
00:47:15
◼
►
Didn't he do a recode thing?
00:47:17
◼
►
Yeah, I was talking about Apple keynotes and introducing Apple stuff.
00:47:23
◼
►
So here's the thing, right? So like about that TV thing. Apple were praised a few
00:47:30
◼
►
months ago, right, when they hired those TV executives, those two Sony executives,
00:47:34
◼
►
right, that were like responsible for Breaking Bad and stuff. What if Q did
00:47:39
◼
►
that? You know? Right, exactly. I think he probably did. I mean I think that if that's still
00:47:45
◼
►
under him then I think that... You would assume that this is his, this is, this is
00:47:50
◼
►
what he does, right? And we were talking about, and everyone's been talking about this billion
00:47:55
◼
►
dollar budget for TV shows. This might be all of his work, right? And again, I know
00:48:01
◼
►
that Carpool Karaoke and behind the app, every time, every time, Planet of the Apps hasn't
00:48:08
◼
►
really been met with much fanfare, but I assume he's doing something, right? He's this funny
00:48:18
◼
►
guy who is really awkward but that doesn't mean that he's bad at his job right because
00:48:25
◼
►
he's not good at presentations. Do you know what I mean? Like I just feel like he must
00:48:29
◼
►
be good. He must be good because he's an executive of the biggest company in the world.
00:48:35
◼
►
Yeah I just I just yeah I just have the feeling that maybe Eric Yu, Jimmy Iovine and Dre are
00:48:42
◼
►
just a posse of Apple. They go around and they talk to people, they convince
00:48:49
◼
►
executives to come on board and they talk to artists and they make deals. They are
00:48:55
◼
►
deal makers and maybe that is important. I'm sure that is important to Apple.
00:49:01
◼
►
In that book, Becoming Steve Jobs, he is praised, right? His abilities are praised then.
00:49:09
◼
►
I think they said that they needed Steve to close the deals but this was earlier on in his career
00:49:14
◼
►
and that he was apparently just really good at this stuff. And there are people who have those
00:49:21
◼
►
skills but those skills don't necessarily transfer into everything else. He might just be really good
00:49:25
◼
►
at schmoozing and they need that. Apple need that. They've always needed it. They're going to continue
00:49:30
◼
►
to need it and the thing about the TV thing, my feeling on that is I expect that the TV
00:49:39
◼
►
industry are very hesitant of Apple because they don't want to become the music industry.
00:49:47
◼
►
Because Apple kind of ran through it and owned it and I'm sure they don't want Apple to have
00:49:54
◼
►
any more than what they currently have which is an ability to sell stuff. So that's kind
00:49:58
◼
►
of my feeling on that like the reason we haven't seen some Apple TV service like
00:50:02
◼
►
that's probably why but I just wanted to talk about it because I know you know
00:50:05
◼
►
it's it's fun it's fun to make jokes but I'm sure I'm sure he's good at his job
00:50:10
◼
►
but he is also just terrible on stage so they yeah and and I think it's made
00:50:17
◼
►
worse in our community that we like Craig Federighi is kind of the nerd hero
00:50:21
◼
►
right and yep some it's harder to care about the media side of the business and
00:50:28
◼
►
And I think a lot of nerdy people actually loathe
00:50:32
◼
►
the media side of the business.
00:50:33
◼
►
They don't want Apple to make TV,
00:50:34
◼
►
they want Apple to make a new Mac Pro.
00:50:37
◼
►
And I think that gets dumped onto EdiQ
00:50:40
◼
►
probably unfairly by members of the nerd community.
00:50:45
◼
►
- But you know, there's a person behind the fancy shirt.
00:50:51
◼
►
He has feelings too.
00:50:52
◼
►
- Sometimes you can see more of the person
00:50:54
◼
►
than you want through the fancy shirt.
00:50:56
◼
►
We know it's there.
00:50:57
◼
►
We all remember.
00:51:00
◼
►
Alright, coming back to smart speakers. There was just a plethora of smart speaker related
00:51:07
◼
►
news in the last week and I want to just run through some of the things that caught my
00:51:11
◼
►
eye. So, first off, Amazon adds multi-room audio support to the Echo. So you can now
00:51:18
◼
►
create groups of Amazon Echo devices like the Echo, the Echo Show and the Echo Dot even
00:51:24
◼
►
when the echo dot is attached to speakers and you can put them into groups and you can
00:51:28
◼
►
play music so you can be like hey echo play this song on everything you set up a group
00:51:34
◼
►
it's called everything and it's all of your devices so you can you can group devices into
00:51:39
◼
►
one big group or into singular groups right now I think only one device can be attached
00:51:44
◼
►
to only one group only I expect they'll change this in the future because it's really weird
00:51:48
◼
►
but it is it works I have heard it in action it works it sounds great like it's like a
00:51:53
◼
►
of Sonos it works and Amazon is also working with third-party manufacturers
00:51:58
◼
►
to create an API to do this and they have said they are currently working
00:52:02
◼
►
with Bose, Sound United and Samsung to put their stuff into and I assume it's
00:52:07
◼
►
the echo assistant into these boxes and then have the multi-room audio support
00:52:13
◼
►
throughout and this feels like it's something that could finally kill Sonos
00:52:19
◼
►
because this is Sonos' thing and now Amazon's like yeah we just added it to our thing for
00:52:24
◼
►
free like people can just can just do this thing.
00:52:27
◼
►
I wonder if they're on product graveyard let's look Sonos.
00:52:31
◼
►
So you say this right but Sonos also announced a smart speaker event a reveal event on October
00:52:38
◼
►
4th right so my thing I have a theory here I think this is a Sonos with echo functionality
00:52:47
◼
►
built in. That's what I think it is. I think honestly if Sonos are trying to build their
00:52:53
◼
►
own smart speaker platform it will 100% kill the company. It will tank them immediately.
00:53:00
◼
►
They may as well just give it up. If they're trying to create their own, so considering
00:53:05
◼
►
that Amazon has already announced a partnership with Sonos, they've already announced that
00:53:11
◼
►
they're working together, right? That was announced ages ago. Now they're doing a smart
00:53:15
◼
►
speaker and Amazon have added multi-room audio support, I think that they're just
00:53:20
◼
►
gonna say "hey we have now deeply integrated with the Amazon echo platform
00:53:25
◼
►
and you can use our products as part of it now, we have cheaper ones, we have
00:53:31
◼
►
expensive ones, we're making great hardware for Amazon". That's what I think
00:53:35
◼
►
this event is gonna be because anything else would be I think just a really
00:53:41
◼
►
really bad idea from Sonos. I just don't see them lasting in this world anymore
00:53:49
◼
►
like it reminds me of Everpix because these services like Everpix and
00:53:58
◼
►
Picture Life they could exist when they are on their own but when these huge
00:54:03
◼
►
companies walk into these things and they don't need to make money on these
00:54:06
◼
►
services there's no way companies like Everpix can survive right because
00:54:11
◼
►
Apple and Google could offer photo storage and they kind of baked some of
00:54:18
◼
►
the price of it into the fact that you're buying into their ecosystem and
00:54:21
◼
►
hardware but Everpix like that was a hundred percent of their business they
00:54:26
◼
►
needed to make money from it otherwise they couldn't exist and I look at Sonos
00:54:29
◼
►
in the same way Sonos if they're trying to build their own platform here they're
00:54:35
◼
►
just not gonna be able to do it because Amazon is always gonna offer a cheaper
00:54:40
◼
►
alternative, they're just always going to because they have all of the Prime
00:54:44
◼
►
stuff to back it up and Apple are always going to be able to offer premium stuff
00:54:49
◼
►
at similar prices but with ecosystem lock-in. So Sonos don't have a place
00:54:54
◼
►
here I think if they're going to try and do it on their own anymore. So I expect
00:54:59
◼
►
that that Sonos event is where they announce their Amazon Echo Sonos
00:55:03
◼
►
speakers. That's my impression.
00:55:05
◼
►
You know, they are testing the integration with the echo.
00:55:13
◼
►
You know, if you have an Amazon Echo and you set up the Sonos speaker and you can sort
00:55:17
◼
►
of chain the two and ask, you know, play music in my kitchen or play music in my living room.
00:55:23
◼
►
And I think you're right because, you know, having to own two separate devices, it just
00:55:30
◼
►
these integrations they can always be a bit flaky.
00:55:34
◼
►
And it just seems like a better solution to me to have
00:55:38
◼
►
the Echo Intelligence and voice features directly built into the Sonos speaker.
00:55:42
◼
►
And so I think you're onto something here, Myke.
00:55:46
◼
►
Long term, it just would make a lot of sense for Amazon
00:55:50
◼
►
to buy Sonos and to use whatever talent and
00:55:54
◼
►
hardware and design taste they have and make
00:55:58
◼
►
make better speakers sold by Amazon, honestly.
00:56:01
◼
►
- So I was having this conversation with someone
00:56:03
◼
►
the night before Amazon added the multi-room audio support.
00:56:08
◼
►
Of like, Amazon should buy Sonos so they can build
00:56:12
◼
►
these amazing speakers in the multi-room audio.
00:56:14
◼
►
So I thought, like you, Federico,
00:56:17
◼
►
'cause it makes perfect sense.
00:56:18
◼
►
Amazon clearly doesn't need that.
00:56:20
◼
►
- No, they don't.
00:56:21
◼
►
- 'Cause they've worked it out on their own.
00:56:23
◼
►
I think it made sense for them to buy Sonos
00:56:25
◼
►
a little while ago, and I think that maybe
00:56:27
◼
►
Sonos were hoping that would happen.
00:56:30
◼
►
But I think Amazon has proven
00:56:31
◼
►
that they don't need to do that.
00:56:32
◼
►
But I think what Amazon does need
00:56:35
◼
►
is premium speakers for their system.
00:56:38
◼
►
Like really good speakers and Sonos can make those.
00:56:42
◼
►
- It would be interesting to see what happens now
00:56:44
◼
►
that there's, we are witnessing, I think,
00:56:48
◼
►
this consolidation on two fronts.
00:56:50
◼
►
There's Amazon and products with Echo integration
00:56:55
◼
►
on one hand, and on the other we have Apple
00:56:59
◼
►
that is coming out with the HomePod
00:57:01
◼
►
and with the AirPlay 2 standard,
00:57:04
◼
►
which in theory, Apple says that they have
00:57:07
◼
►
a bunch of brands on board and that speakers will come out
00:57:10
◼
►
as soon as iOS 11 is released.
00:57:12
◼
►
Some new speakers and other, you know,
00:57:15
◼
►
there is some recent ones will get software updates
00:57:18
◼
►
for AirPlay 2.
00:57:19
◼
►
And AirPlay 2 introduces, you know, multi-room support
00:57:22
◼
►
and deeper iOS integration, you know,
00:57:24
◼
►
It's even got some features that, you know, it can kind of work like the Sonos system in that, you know, if you have music playing or a podcast playing on an Airplay 2 speaker, and if a sound notification comes in, or if a phone call comes in, it doesn't pause playback on the on the Airplay 2 speaker.
00:57:43
◼
►
So this sort of battle between speakers either made by Amazon or compatible with Amazon versus
00:57:53
◼
►
speakers made by Apple or compatible with Apple's APIs. That would be interesting to see how it goes.
00:58:00
◼
►
But I do believe this is the sort of the world that we're going to see on the smart speaker
00:58:07
◼
►
front because and I'm counting out Google because I maybe I shouldn't include Google but it just
00:58:12
◼
►
just seems like, I should, but it seems to me like Amazon at least has captured
00:58:17
◼
►
more of the mindset, at least among us tech people. I think Google are the Windows
00:58:23
◼
►
phone in this argument. Yes, yes. Wow. But I wouldn't count them out yet. Like, not yet,
00:58:31
◼
►
not yet. Because they have the money, resources and patience to make Google
00:58:38
◼
►
home more of a thing. Plus Android. That is a huge ecosystem. If they can continue to
00:58:48
◼
►
just push Google home into more stuff, people are going to want these more and more because
00:58:54
◼
►
it works with their phone. I think that is a thing that will continue. I just think that
00:58:59
◼
►
right now Google is behind in a couple of ways. They did just announce the first third
00:59:06
◼
►
party speakers and devices that are going to be integrating with their SDK. So one is
00:59:13
◼
►
coming from Anchor, another is coming from a Chinese manufacturer called Mobvoi and LG
00:59:19
◼
►
have announced that like a bunch of their home appliances are going to have Google Home
00:59:23
◼
►
built in. So they're making moves, right? They're continuing to make moves as well.
00:59:28
◼
►
Like it's Amazon is doing stuff, Google is doing stuff, like everyone is doing things
00:59:34
◼
►
right now, which continue to make this stuff more interesting, especially
00:59:39
◼
►
Microsoft and Amazon are teaming up to get their
00:59:44
◼
►
two voice assistants to talk to each other.
00:59:48
◼
►
This is an official partnership from Amazon and Microsoft.
00:59:51
◼
►
So the Amazon assistant and Cortana, Microsoft's assistant.
00:59:55
◼
►
I feel like I can say Cortana because I can't imagine many people are using it.
01:00:00
◼
►
So I'm going to keep doing that one where I won't say the Amazon one out loud
01:00:03
◼
►
because it's upsetting. So soon you will be able to summon either assistant from the other
01:00:09
◼
►
assistant. So you can say "Hey Echo, tell Cortana to do this" or whatever. Now, whilst
01:00:16
◼
►
that sounds weird and clunky, think for example if you use a Windows PC, you could trigger
01:00:24
◼
►
your hue lights from your Windows PC. Sure, if you can beat them, join them. And that's
01:00:29
◼
►
That's what they're doing. There's a great quote from Nick Wingfield that the New York
01:00:32
◼
►
Times, Dan Morin quoted this in his article on Six Colors. These two companies have struggled
01:00:38
◼
►
in the smartphone business, which makes it hard to get people using their speaker services,
01:00:44
◼
►
their voice services outside homes and offices. So by pairing these two things together, they're
01:00:50
◼
►
like spreading their bets further. So I find it really interesting. And I think it's more
01:00:58
◼
►
More on the getting Amazon Echo into PCs is more interesting than anything else. Putting
01:01:04
◼
►
Cortana into my Aircode doesn't really, I don't really know what that does to me. Maybe
01:01:08
◼
►
I can control my Windows PC. I actually don't know what Cortana can do. But it's super interesting
01:01:14
◼
►
to see two competing companies like this joining forces. It's Amazon man, they are really going
01:01:23
◼
►
for this and right now they are leading. There is no joke anymore. They are pushing further
01:01:31
◼
►
into software, more into hardware, they have products they're releasing all the time, they
01:01:36
◼
►
have integrations that they're continuing to push on, they're doing deals with huge
01:01:40
◼
►
companies. You can say which service you prefer but right now they are owning this space.
01:01:48
◼
►
got it. It's theirs. And everybody else, I think, is catching up.
01:01:53
◼
►
Well, yeah, I kind of agree. I kind of disagree, but we'll get to this in a few minutes, I
01:02:00
◼
►
Well, I mean, as I say, you can have your favorite, but like, if you're looking at the
01:02:04
◼
►
smart device, smart speaker voice assistant thing, right?
01:02:09
◼
►
Right, yeah.
01:02:10
◼
►
They are owning the majority of the space right now because so much of the conversation
01:02:17
◼
►
is focused around them and the things that they are doing.
01:02:20
◼
►
That is true, but it's also true that the Echo is available in three countries.
01:02:26
◼
►
I feel like it's important to contextualize how relevant a smart speaker alone is
01:02:38
◼
►
if it doesn't work with your smartphone or computer.
01:02:44
◼
►
I guess it's...
01:02:46
◼
►
Oh, I mean, you know, you can use the app. You can use the Amazon app.
01:02:51
◼
►
Sure, sure. But it just...
01:02:54
◼
►
It feels like if you take into account the ecosystem of services,
01:03:01
◼
►
it feels like Google even is in a better position than Amazon.
01:03:05
◼
►
You could say because of Android, because of, you know, the...
01:03:10
◼
►
it's the whole suite of products into the same ecosystem.
01:03:14
◼
►
And that's what Apple kind of wants to do as well.
01:03:16
◼
►
And so if you consider the smart speaker alone, Amazon is clearly ahead.
01:03:20
◼
►
But if you consider, you know, the whole thing, like the whole ecosystem,
01:03:25
◼
►
Google is ahead maybe.
01:03:27
◼
►
And Apple wants...
01:03:29
◼
►
I feel like that that's just like saying, you know, Microsoft are, because
01:03:35
◼
►
there are PCs everywhere and the PCs can have Cortana in them, right?
01:03:39
◼
►
Like, you know, I don't necessarily think it's like who has the most devices is
01:03:44
◼
►
No, not the most devices, but the
01:03:47
◼
►
more versatile ecosystem.
01:03:51
◼
►
I'm trying to find a way to phrase it that makes sense.
01:03:54
◼
►
Like once you if you want to use an Amazon Echo,
01:03:58
◼
►
you know, you're limited to just the speaker.
01:04:01
◼
►
Whereas if you maybe in a few months, if you have a HomePod and right now
01:04:06
◼
►
if you have a Google Home, the Google Assistant is everywhere.
01:04:09
◼
►
So you don't have to apply a different set of skills.
01:04:12
◼
►
Whether you're on your phone or talking out loud in the kitchen,
01:04:17
◼
►
it's always the same service.
01:04:19
◼
►
This this is why I'm saying don't count Google out because the Google Assistant,
01:04:23
◼
►
which is powering all of this, is available everywhere
01:04:27
◼
►
and on Android natively.
01:04:29
◼
►
But like my point that I'm trying to drive at is if you're looking at
01:04:35
◼
►
where the advancement is coming from, like who is pushing it forward fastest.
01:04:41
◼
►
It's Amazon, I think, right now, like that they are unrelenting
01:04:44
◼
►
in everything that they're trying to do with the Echo platform.
01:04:48
◼
►
Which I guess brings us to Federico's peculiar story
01:04:53
◼
►
to round out our peculiar stories of this episode.
01:04:55
◼
►
This is just an experiment, though we are trying now.
01:05:00
◼
►
But basically, as we came back from our month long vacation,
01:05:04
◼
►
came back home and we did some reorganization.
01:05:08
◼
►
Especially of our bedroom and my corner
01:05:12
◼
►
of the room which is my mini studio. And we realized
01:05:16
◼
►
just how much stuff we
01:05:20
◼
►
had in there. Like
01:05:24
◼
►
too many electronics and just stuff with
01:05:28
◼
►
cables everywhere and like we had the
01:05:32
◼
►
the multiple echoes and the Sonos and a bunch of remotes
01:05:37
◼
►
and the Logitech Harmony.
01:05:39
◼
►
And we, both Silvia and I, I guess we were,
01:05:44
◼
►
we were caught by an urge to simplify.
01:05:47
◼
►
And yeah, and we've been talking about,
01:05:53
◼
►
especially about the echo and the limitations
01:05:57
◼
►
that we specifically face with the echo here,
01:06:02
◼
►
which is we cannot talk to the echo in Italian.
01:06:06
◼
►
And that can be awkward or weird,
01:06:09
◼
►
especially if you have people over.
01:06:11
◼
►
It's funny if you have close friends,
01:06:14
◼
►
but it's not funny if there's someone who's not,
01:06:17
◼
►
like a real close friend or relative.
01:06:19
◼
►
- And I guess it's worth just for the sake
01:06:22
◼
►
of adding context to this discussion,
01:06:24
◼
►
that you just remind people
01:06:27
◼
►
that you only speak English to us, right?
01:06:29
◼
►
You speak Italian at home.
01:06:31
◼
►
Yes. Yes. Because I live in Rome and I have Italian friends and, you know, I'm Italian, but I just...
01:06:38
◼
►
I speak a lot of Engl- Yes, I speak a lot of English, but I speak with you guys or with my friends at Max Stories and other people for work.
01:06:47
◼
►
And so the Echo doesn't allow us to talk in Italian.
01:06:51
◼
►
And we also realized,
01:06:54
◼
►
in addition to wanting to simplify
01:06:58
◼
►
and to have like a cleaner look for the house,
01:07:01
◼
►
like fewer cables, less complexity.
01:07:06
◼
►
I don't know why that is,
01:07:08
◼
►
but we were both on the same page.
01:07:11
◼
►
And also we realized how much
01:07:13
◼
►
we've been enjoying Siri lately.
01:07:16
◼
►
It's faster when we want to turn on the lights.
01:07:19
◼
►
We use Siri a lot for timers and for triggering scenes
01:07:25
◼
►
and also to open the camera view
01:07:31
◼
►
because we're constantly checking in on the dogs
01:07:33
◼
►
when we're not at home.
01:07:35
◼
►
And taking these things together, I said,
01:07:38
◼
►
"You know, we should maybe try and see how it goes
01:07:42
◼
►
if we get rid of the Amazon Echo.
01:07:46
◼
►
if we can do what we currently do just by using Siri and maybe later this year if I
01:07:53
◼
►
can manage or maybe next year if it comes to Italy to get a HomePod.
01:08:01
◼
►
In addition to this, there's also the fact that I've been personally, for my English
01:08:06
◼
►
usage, I've been using the Amazon Echo less and less as I've been testing the new iOS
01:08:13
◼
►
domains for SiriKit coming in just a few weeks for taking notes and saving tasks in my task
01:08:24
◼
►
I realized that a lot of my Amazon Echo usage was about saving tasks in Todoist.
01:08:31
◼
►
And now without getting into the specifics, this stuff is coming with iOS 11.
01:08:37
◼
►
And I'm really enjoying the fact that I can do this stuff natively on my device and it's
01:08:43
◼
►
immediately saved into my task manager by using voice. And if you combine that
01:08:49
◼
►
with the fact that I'm not using Spotify anymore, you know, Silvio and I, we have a
01:08:54
◼
►
family subscription with Apple Music. Taking all these factors together, Siri
01:09:01
◼
►
works in Italian and English, there's a speaker coming, we're using Apple Music a
01:09:06
◼
►
lot more, we're using Siri a lot as a, you know, in our family, you know, in our
01:09:12
◼
►
household usage. We like Siri because it's faster and it seems more reliable
01:09:17
◼
►
and we wanted to simplify. The conclusion of this feels kind of obvious to
01:09:24
◼
►
me that we wanted to have a simpler setup. Just Siri, just Apple
01:09:31
◼
►
stuff, fewer third-party dependencies. And I'm not sure if this is gonna work out
01:09:39
◼
►
for now, especially because the HomePod is not out yet. And the fact that I don't like
01:09:46
◼
►
the way that hands-free Siri activation works on iOS, I don't fully like it, I don't fully
01:09:51
◼
►
trust it, so I'm not sure if I will be able to live with an Amazon Echo Free world for
01:09:57
◼
►
at least a couple of months, if I can manage to get a HomePod from the US or the UK or
01:10:02
◼
►
whatever. But I can tell you this, that it feels great, it feels very nice to have, you
01:10:11
◼
►
know, fewer cables, fewer accessories, and there's a... it reminds me of when I used
01:10:23
◼
►
to be a Mac user and I was constantly fiddling around and tweaking things with scripts and
01:10:31
◼
►
apps and you know in a way that's I've sort of had the same realization with
01:10:36
◼
►
home automation I just want to buy stuff that works with HomeKit that works with
01:10:41
◼
►
Siri then I don't have to think about integrations and you know IFTTT and all
01:10:47
◼
►
that stuff I plug it in I authenticate with my iCloud account and it works and
01:10:53
◼
►
it's kind of it's kind of beautiful for now.
01:10:56
◼
►
a few things. So one, it's very surprising to me in general because you were our patient
01:11:04
◼
►
zero for the Echo. You were the one that got all of us involved in this. Are you losing
01:11:13
◼
►
any functionality by leaving this or any of your smart home devices that you were using?
01:11:20
◼
►
Have any of them been taken away because of this?
01:11:23
◼
►
- So that's the other point. - I see some.
01:11:24
◼
►
- No, because I only have,
01:11:27
◼
►
really my only smart home devices are U lights
01:11:31
◼
►
and a bunch of HomeKit sensors.
01:11:33
◼
►
I cannot install,
01:11:37
◼
►
because this is not our house we're renting,
01:11:42
◼
►
I cannot install stuff that works with the Echo,
01:11:44
◼
►
like thermostats or door locks or other of these devices.
01:11:49
◼
►
- Everything else can go along with it.
01:11:51
◼
►
I guess that's the good thing.
01:11:52
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah. - Okay.
01:11:54
◼
►
But the thing that I would really miss
01:11:56
◼
►
and why I have no intention of getting rid of these devices
01:11:59
◼
►
is I just love walking around my house
01:12:01
◼
►
and speaking commands.
01:12:04
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah.
01:12:05
◼
►
- And I agree with you,
01:12:07
◼
►
I just don't get the same level of accuracy
01:12:12
◼
►
from using the hands-free Siri stuff.
01:12:15
◼
►
And I mean, really, the main use in our house
01:12:20
◼
►
for having an echo is to turn our lights on and off and to set timers, right?
01:12:24
◼
►
And like being able to just speak those things into the
01:12:27
◼
►
into the air and it happened that we love it.
01:12:31
◼
►
It's fantastic.
01:12:33
◼
►
I would miss that a lot.
01:12:35
◼
►
And I really don't feel like.
01:12:38
◼
►
The hands free series good enough.
01:12:40
◼
►
No, and that that's why I'm
01:12:44
◼
►
I'm really excited, actually, for the home part, even if I'm still not sold
01:12:48
◼
►
on the name, I feel like I'm maybe at a point in my life where I don't have time for tweaking
01:13:00
◼
►
things constantly anymore. And I just want to choose an ecosystem and stick with it and
01:13:08
◼
►
make sure that it works for everybody in the house. And right now, at least for us, for
01:13:13
◼
►
dual language support and for the minimal home kit devices that we, you know, setup that we have,
01:13:20
◼
►
that is Apple and Siri. And we like Apple Music, we like Siri, we like the way that it works and
01:13:26
◼
►
there's a speaker coming even if it doesn't have the third-party integrations that I would like it
01:13:31
◼
►
to have. It seems to me like this need for simplification is now better served by getting
01:13:39
◼
►
rid of these other devices which include the Logitech remote, the Sonos, multiple Echos.
01:13:50
◼
►
Basically the only things left are Apple stuff, HomeKit cameras, and again also for the cameras
01:13:59
◼
►
I'm really hoping that the Canary, the Logitech Circle, all of these devices will get HomeKit
01:14:05
◼
►
software updates because this is now possible with iOS 11. So the more I can
01:14:09
◼
►
switch to the Apple ecosystem, the less I have to think about keeping up
01:14:13
◼
►
with external integrations, APIs, different sets of commands, the better.
01:14:17
◼
►
So right now the only stuff I have is Apple stuff, my video game consoles and
01:14:21
◼
►
my Synology and that's about it. So that's kind of... it's very refreshing.
01:14:27
◼
►
There's a very refreshing simplicity that I was kind of missing. I don't know
01:14:31
◼
►
Maybe I'm turning into Steven.
01:14:33
◼
►
I'm getting older, I don't know.
01:14:35
◼
►
I don't know.
01:14:36
◼
►
- Steven, do you want to take a bet on how long it is
01:14:38
◼
►
until Federico comes back to the Antarctica?
01:14:41
◼
►
- What did he say for me on Spotify,
01:14:43
◼
►
between three weeks and a month?
01:14:45
◼
►
- I think it's probably going to be,
01:14:48
◼
►
I'm going to say six to eight weeks
01:14:51
◼
►
before something in HomeKit or Siri
01:14:54
◼
►
just breaks his will to live.
01:14:55
◼
►
- Yeah, see, I was going to say by the end of the year.
01:14:58
◼
►
- See, okay.
01:14:59
◼
►
I reckon that the HomePod will come out, no date for Italy, it comes out, no one is super
01:15:06
◼
►
enthused about it and he's just like "forget it" and goes back to the Echo.
01:15:10
◼
►
Okay, we'll follow up on this.
01:15:14
◼
►
Today's show is also brought to you by our friends over at Balance. Balance are the team
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All right, so we are a week away, really burying the lead today, we are a week away from an
01:16:57
◼
►
Apple event. It is going to happen at the Steve Jobs Theatre at Apple Park on September
01:17:04
◼
►
12th. It's going to be the first event there. We're going to be recording the day after
01:17:08
◼
►
as we like to do on this show. So we let kind of the news settle in, piece together all
01:17:12
◼
►
the stuff that we want to piece together. What do we think is going to be announced?
01:17:17
◼
►
Federico, what do you think is going to happen?
01:17:19
◼
►
Alright, so I think it's safe to say we are expecting three new iPhones and I'm confident that what people are referring to as the 7S and 7S+ will actually be called the iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus.
01:17:35
◼
►
And the special, you know, the all new, all screen, top-notch iPhone will be called something like the iPhone Edition or iPhone Pro or iPhone X.
01:17:45
◼
►
I don't know, but some other name that makes it different, but that doesn't also make the iPhone 8 line less important.
01:17:57
◼
►
So I think we'll see three new iPhones.
01:17:59
◼
►
And then we can go over some of these individually, but I think we'll get the Apple Watch 3 with longer battery life and LTE support as a separate version.
01:18:11
◼
►
Like iPads, you know, if you want, you can get the cellular model.
01:18:15
◼
►
And I think we're going to see the 4K Apple TV and 4K content on iTunes.
01:18:21
◼
►
And after the event, we'll look into the specifics of 4K and we'll be able to follow up and say,
01:18:28
◼
►
"Yes, it is indeed based on the HEVC video codec," as Steven and I speculated, I think it was last week.
01:18:36
◼
►
So these are my main three, iPhones, Apple Watch, Apple TV and 4K on iTunes.
01:18:43
◼
►
So we can dig into these things in a little bit more detail where we want to but just to kind of round out general predictions
01:18:48
◼
►
The Mac I mean there are Mac products still coming this year anything. Yeah, I don't I don't think we're gonna see anything
01:18:56
◼
►
they showed the iMac Pro at
01:18:59
◼
►
WWDC I think they could do a a
01:19:02
◼
►
Press release and you know when that thing's ready, that's a press release
01:19:07
◼
►
I don't think we're gonna see anything about the Mac Pro this calendar year. So I
01:19:12
◼
►
I don't I just don't see there being a a
01:19:15
◼
►
Enough max stuff to warrant stage time at this point. They just did the MacBook pros. What about high Sierra?
01:19:23
◼
►
I mean maybe I mean usually
01:19:26
◼
►
so if they do one event in the fall, we'll see like a high Sierra recap, but there's no hardware to tie it to and
01:19:32
◼
►
I don't think the iMac Pro is gonna ship early in October
01:19:36
◼
►
So I don't think there's gonna be an event then so I mean hi
01:19:39
◼
►
Sierra may get a little time on stage but three new phones, new Apple watch, new
01:19:45
◼
►
Apple TV, that's plenty for an event. This could be a Mac free event I think. What
01:19:50
◼
►
about the HomePod? Anything? I mean there's still more to tell. Are they
01:19:55
◼
►
going to show that now? Will they do an event later on in the year which maybe
01:19:59
◼
►
has more information about the iMac Pro and the HomePod? Like would they build an
01:20:04
◼
►
event around that? I mean that's the wild card like do they show do they recap
01:20:10
◼
►
what's at WWDC about the HomePod or if it's gonna ship in December you know
01:20:15
◼
►
maybe we see a late October even November event and maybe it's HomePod and
01:20:20
◼
►
iMac Pro I mean maybe that would be unusual but they've also usually don't
01:20:25
◼
►
pre-announce things that are gonna ship months out. Like I'm expecting more
01:20:28
◼
►
because like we kind of glossed over this earlier but like for the things that
01:20:32
◼
►
and Federico were saying there was a disparity, right?
01:20:34
◼
►
So Federico was right in saying like the HomePod leak
01:20:37
◼
►
showed a bunch of Siri stuff.
01:20:39
◼
►
But WWDC, they were like limited Siri integration.
01:20:42
◼
►
These are the things that Siri might do and maybe some more.
01:20:46
◼
►
You know, like there was like,
01:20:47
◼
►
they were very like hand wavy about Siri's functionality
01:20:50
◼
►
on the HomePod at WWDC, I think.
01:20:52
◼
►
And they were talking about like limited stuff,
01:20:54
◼
►
but then the HomePod firmware leak
01:20:56
◼
►
maybe showed that it could do a bit more.
01:20:58
◼
►
So I think that, as you would expect,
01:21:00
◼
►
they did more work on it, right?
01:21:03
◼
►
I think that was always the assumption,
01:21:05
◼
►
is that there was six months to go
01:21:07
◼
►
before the product was gonna be released.
01:21:09
◼
►
So there could be some stuff to talk about,
01:21:11
◼
►
or they could wait.
01:21:12
◼
►
- Yeah, yeah, I don't know.
01:21:14
◼
►
I mean, I guess it depends if they feel like they,
01:21:16
◼
►
this is the question every year,
01:21:17
◼
►
is there enough for a second event?
01:21:19
◼
►
And that's weird this year,
01:21:21
◼
►
because the Macs are all basically up to date,
01:21:23
◼
►
except for the Mac Mini and these future Macs
01:21:27
◼
►
that we are now coming.
01:21:29
◼
►
And then the HomePod was announced six months in advance.
01:21:31
◼
►
And so, like, do you go in depth with all the Siri commands
01:21:36
◼
►
and everything the HomePod can do
01:21:38
◼
►
and people still have to wait another three months?
01:21:40
◼
►
Like that feels weird.
01:21:41
◼
►
So I don't know.
01:21:43
◼
►
That's an interesting little thing.
01:21:45
◼
►
But I agree with Federico and the broad strokes
01:21:47
◼
►
that phones, watch, Apple TV,
01:21:49
◼
►
I think are gonna be the tent poles for this event.
01:21:54
◼
►
- I'm really interested to see how they deal with the,
01:21:58
◼
►
Let's just call it the iPhone Pro and its software.
01:22:02
◼
►
What's the software story in terms of user interactions?
01:22:06
◼
►
The latest rumors suggest there's going to be like a thin
01:22:10
◼
►
bar at the bottom of the screen that you use
01:22:13
◼
►
to swipe up and open multitasking.
01:22:15
◼
►
Maybe you tap the bar to go back home.
01:22:18
◼
►
Maybe you press and hold for Siri,
01:22:20
◼
►
but really how they deal with the status bar,
01:22:25
◼
►
with the notch,
01:22:26
◼
►
is what everybody is asking for like how does it work and how do they present
01:22:31
◼
►
these changes to developers but more broadly how does the iPhone Pro and you
01:22:36
◼
►
know stuff like facial recognition this new bottom bar that replaces the home
01:22:43
◼
►
button how does this affect developers who are going to submit ios 11 software
01:22:49
◼
►
updates can they be ready for the new screen of the iPhone Pro in less than a
01:22:55
◼
►
Did Apple create graceful fallbacks for the APIs?
01:23:01
◼
►
For example, if you use Touch ID, does it automatically fall back to face ID recognition in the iOS 11 SDK?
01:23:09
◼
►
And are we going to see already, or maybe not at the event, but shortly thereafter, are we going to see a beta of iOS 11.1?
01:23:19
◼
►
which I don't think if we looking at you know previous years I think it should be coming
01:23:24
◼
►
relatively quickly after iOS 11. So the software story I think it's really interesting and
01:23:30
◼
►
especially because developers are going to update their apps you know at the event there's probably
01:23:36
◼
►
going to be the GM seed of iOS 11 but there's also going to be these new APIs for the iPhone Pro
01:23:43
◼
►
And these seem to me like major changes to authentication into apps, a new form factor for the display,
01:23:50
◼
►
and new ways to, you know, what happens to tab bars, for example, because at the bottom, there's now this home indicator.
01:23:58
◼
►
What happens to full screen usage? Can you, as an app, request to hide the home indicator or not?
01:24:05
◼
►
There's a bunch of details that I'm sure after the event will go look into the iOS documentation
01:24:13
◼
►
and figure out how it works.
01:24:14
◼
►
So if you think about rumors and conjecture from earlier in the year, wouldn't all of
01:24:21
◼
►
this be so much easier if this iPhone doesn't ship until October?
01:24:25
◼
►
Yes, it would indeed be so much easier to give developers not two days or three days
01:24:32
◼
►
to update and submit but to have the iPhone come out a month later.
01:24:38
◼
►
And not that this is the reason, not that it comes out a month later because of developers,
01:24:42
◼
►
because I don't really think Apple care about that, but the idea of "oh how are we going
01:24:47
◼
►
to deal with it, how are people going to make that work for them", well that answer might
01:24:53
◼
►
be given to them by the fact that this iPhone might not ship on the same day as the other
01:24:58
◼
►
But I will say that this leak, these rumors of this idea of this line, these multi-touch
01:25:04
◼
►
gestures etc etc.
01:25:07
◼
►
I'm very happy because this is what I wanted.
01:25:10
◼
►
What I have been hoping for was that I would get the full screen for the apps that I use
01:25:15
◼
►
because otherwise what's the point?
01:25:17
◼
►
Like I think I said this in this show, what was the point of giving me a big screen that
01:25:22
◼
►
covers the entire front if there's just a home button on the screen the whole time?
01:25:26
◼
►
Like it just seems like a waste, right?
01:25:28
◼
►
Like just a complete waste of that screen
01:25:31
◼
►
if I can't get the full screen of it.
01:25:33
◼
►
And plus, you know, coming from a plus phone,
01:25:36
◼
►
like this screen isn't going to be as big
01:25:39
◼
►
as the plus's screen, but it will give me everything
01:25:42
◼
►
that I want from a big screen phone.
01:25:45
◼
►
Like the reason that I like a big screen phone
01:25:46
◼
►
is I like to have more content on the screen.
01:25:49
◼
►
And if you take this new screen and go full screen,
01:25:51
◼
►
I will get the same, not the same,
01:25:54
◼
►
but I will get what will feel like just as much, right?
01:25:57
◼
►
Like all of, I'll be able to see loads of tweets,
01:25:59
◼
►
I'll be able to see loads of emails,
01:26:00
◼
►
I'll be able to see loads of messages, right?
01:26:01
◼
►
Like that's why I like a big screen phone,
01:26:04
◼
►
because I like to have a lot of content on the screen,
01:26:06
◼
►
and I will still get the majority of that, I think,
01:26:09
◼
►
with this phone, because it's long, you know?
01:26:13
◼
►
So I'm excited about that.
01:26:14
◼
►
- Yeah, and it's gonna be longer, not wider,
01:26:18
◼
►
but it's gonna be longer, so you're gonna be seeing more,
01:26:21
◼
►
more items in any vertical list or presentation,
01:26:25
◼
►
just not as wide maybe as the iPhone Plus.
01:26:28
◼
►
And yeah, I agree.
01:26:30
◼
►
Like we were speculating on does Apple create
01:26:33
◼
►
like a function bar with persistent buttons?
01:26:36
◼
►
But in the end, I think probably the idea
01:26:39
◼
►
of fully embracing the screen makes more sense.
01:26:42
◼
►
And you can imagine how Apple is gonna sell this feature
01:26:46
◼
►
with taglines like full screen is now
01:26:50
◼
►
real full screen, stuff like that.
01:26:52
◼
►
I can see how marketing could sell that story.
01:26:57
◼
►
And if you combine that with stuff like
01:27:01
◼
►
maybe even more battery, maybe, you know,
01:27:04
◼
►
I'm sure improvements to the dual camera system
01:27:09
◼
►
and maybe even, you know, 3D sensing cameras
01:27:13
◼
►
on the front of the device,
01:27:15
◼
►
maybe even an API for developers,
01:27:17
◼
►
we could be looking at maybe even a portrait mode
01:27:20
◼
►
for the selfie camera.
01:27:22
◼
►
- And that would be awesome.
01:27:23
◼
►
So I am excited.
01:27:26
◼
►
I'm more than in previous years.
01:27:29
◼
►
I'm really looking forward to this phone.
01:27:30
◼
►
- Oh, I'm so excited about this.
01:27:32
◼
►
I really am.
01:27:33
◼
►
Like, we've been saying this to each other for weeks,
01:27:37
◼
►
but I am more excited about this iPhone
01:27:40
◼
►
than I remember being excited for an iPhone
01:27:41
◼
►
in a very, very, very long time.
01:27:44
◼
►
Because there is just, it doesn't matter how much we know
01:27:47
◼
►
or think we know about this device.
01:27:50
◼
►
it's going to be so awesome to watch this thing be unveiled
01:27:53
◼
►
because it's just going to be so special looking
01:27:55
◼
►
and it's going to be so weird and wonderful.
01:27:57
◼
►
In a way that the iPhone hasn't been
01:28:00
◼
►
probably since the Plus was released I think.
01:28:02
◼
►
Like that was maybe the last time that I was this excited
01:28:05
◼
►
because that then was the phone for me
01:28:08
◼
►
and this now is the phone for me.
01:28:09
◼
►
The Plus was the phone that I wanted
01:28:11
◼
►
when it didn't exist and this is the phone that I want
01:28:16
◼
►
because it doesn't exist, right?
01:28:17
◼
►
Like I've wanted for a while to get rid of all of the big bezels and the borders
01:28:22
◼
►
that go around a phone because I'm excited about this design trend.
01:28:25
◼
►
But kind of going back to the event a little bit,
01:28:28
◼
►
something that I'm really intrigued to see how Apple is going to manage
01:28:34
◼
►
is the other iPhones. Like how are they going to position this?
01:28:40
◼
►
I'm really intrigued to see just like the dance that they do
01:28:45
◼
►
and the way that they tell the story of
01:28:47
◼
►
why you should buy the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus,
01:28:51
◼
►
but why you should also buy the iPhone Pro.
01:28:54
◼
►
I'm really interested to see how that's gonna work out.
01:28:58
◼
►
- I think that the name,
01:28:59
◼
►
the naming has a lot to do with that.
01:29:00
◼
►
I agree that I think we're gonna see them
01:29:02
◼
►
skip the S nomenclature this year.
01:29:05
◼
►
You know, the rumor is that these phones
01:29:07
◼
►
are gonna look very similar,
01:29:09
◼
►
but they're gonna have wireless charging,
01:29:11
◼
►
which means you gotta have a glass back,
01:29:13
◼
►
the design will be different to a degree. And so I think as the event goes on
01:29:17
◼
►
they're announcing these phones as if they're the only phones they're
01:29:21
◼
►
announcing and then there's a one more thing.
01:29:23
◼
►
Yeah. There's this the special phone sitting above that and there will be
01:29:26
◼
►
people who like no doubt this this 8 and 8 plus if that's what they're called
01:29:32
◼
►
they will not see the the numbers that that the top of the line phone normally
01:29:40
◼
►
would see. I think Apple's hoping that we're going to make that difference up with the
01:29:44
◼
►
more expensive phones so the average selling price goes up, everyone's happy. But yeah,
01:29:50
◼
►
that's the question here and I think they're going to need to have that wireless charging
01:29:57
◼
►
feature. The case is going to need to be a little bit different to accommodate that and
01:30:00
◼
►
hopefully that's enough. Like if it looked just like the 7 which looked just like the
01:30:05
◼
►
the 6s, which look just like the 6,
01:30:08
◼
►
that's gonna be a real bummer.
01:30:10
◼
►
And yes, this phone is going to look old
01:30:12
◼
►
compared to the new one, but the new one's gonna,
01:30:15
◼
►
the addition or the Pro or whatever,
01:30:17
◼
►
but that Pro phone is gonna be so much more expensive
01:30:20
◼
►
and so different than I think maybe Apple's hoping
01:30:23
◼
►
to split the difference, like, hey, people who, you know,
01:30:25
◼
►
upgrade every two years or three years,
01:30:28
◼
►
this is a great phone for you and it's gonna be faster
01:30:31
◼
►
and it's gonna have this better camera
01:30:32
◼
►
and it's gonna have wireless charging and that great,
01:30:35
◼
►
But then the enthusiast phone will be there for those of us who are willing to spend the money.
01:30:40
◼
►
And I think they're hoping they can just split that divide. And, you know, maybe it's not as big
01:30:45
◼
►
of a deal as we think it is because people, there's a huge number of consumers who just
01:30:49
◼
►
upgrade every two or three years to whatever's newest. And that phone will be there waiting for
01:30:54
◼
►
them. And they'll, you know, it'll be a big upgrade from their six or success or whatever.
01:31:01
◼
►
So we're a week away. We've got a really big event coming up next week, which I'm really
01:31:07
◼
►
excited about. I'm interested to see how the new venue looks and how they present that
01:31:15
◼
►
Me too. I'm super excited about that. I think that we will see some time in the keynote
01:31:21
◼
►
dedicated to Apple Park and to the theater that, you know, they used to do retail updates
01:31:26
◼
►
and they've basically gotten rid of those. But I think there will be some time of like,
01:31:29
◼
►
welcome to our new home, you know,
01:31:31
◼
►
some gratuitous drone footage of the campus
01:31:35
◼
►
and maybe even something about the theater itself.
01:31:38
◼
►
I think it's, we talked about when they named it,
01:31:41
◼
►
the name is perfect.
01:31:42
◼
►
I'm excited to see the space
01:31:43
◼
►
because I'm sort of like a AV nerd
01:31:46
◼
►
and like I wanna see what the space looks like
01:31:49
◼
►
and I think that they will show it off.
01:31:51
◼
►
I think this is the first time they're on their own campus,
01:31:53
◼
►
first time that they control everything.
01:31:57
◼
►
You know, they're not renting out, you know,
01:31:58
◼
►
the Flint Center and building a giant building next door to it so I think
01:32:01
◼
►
they'll spend some time welcoming the press in the world to their new home I
01:32:05
◼
►
think that'll be fun to see. question for you Stephen, natural light. yes. do you
01:32:11
◼
►
think they'll use natural light? in the theater? with the theater
01:32:16
◼
►
subterranean so no. but doesn't it have like all that glass roof like I'm just
01:32:21
◼
►
like trying to understand if there's a way they could do that. so the way the
01:32:25
◼
►
works it's the big lobby upstairs which is maybe where the hands-on will be I
01:32:30
◼
►
don't know that is that circle room with glass all the way around it's got a
01:32:34
◼
►
carbon fiber roof the theater though you go downstairs at subterranean so I don't
01:32:38
◼
►
think there's gonna be any natural light in the theater I think it'll be you step
01:32:42
◼
►
into this this you know this auditorium and they control you know everything
01:32:48
◼
►
which is like all town hall it's not underground like any theater there's no
01:32:51
◼
►
there's no very few theaters use natural light because they want to control
01:32:55
◼
►
everything so you're gonna walk downstairs into this giant auditorium
01:33:00
◼
►
but yeah it'll be fun I agree with you it'll be fun to see that and see what
01:33:03
◼
►
that space is like I'm very very curious to hear upgrade that week to hear
01:33:08
◼
►
Jason's because Jason has been to all these venues and I'm very curious to
01:33:12
◼
►
know how the Steve Jobs theater holds up it'll blow away the old town hall but
01:33:16
◼
►
what is it like compared to all these other places that they've used over the
01:33:21
◼
►
- Yeah, I'm concerned over what could be
01:33:23
◼
►
an 11 billion hour upgrade because--
01:33:26
◼
►
- It's gonna be very long.
01:33:27
◼
►
- I really wanna know just about the venue.
01:33:32
◼
►
Like I'm really intrigued, like what is the waiting area
01:33:36
◼
►
like, what are the seats like?
01:33:38
◼
►
Like you know, I'm very intrigued just to find out
01:33:42
◼
►
what the place is like before we even start talking
01:33:44
◼
►
about the new products.
01:33:45
◼
►
- Does the wifi work, is there power in the seats?
01:33:48
◼
►
Like I would hope, they're talking about this
01:33:50
◼
►
on the Verge cast this week that a lot of these venues,
01:33:54
◼
►
because they're not really made for this sort of thing,
01:33:56
◼
►
like journalists struggle and like the wifi's really bad
01:33:59
◼
►
or there's very limited power.
01:34:01
◼
►
It's like you're there for three hours
01:34:02
◼
►
and you're taking pictures and streaming
01:34:04
◼
►
and all this stuff, you know, MacBook Pro dies.
01:34:07
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Apple has in control of all of that now.
01:34:08
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So like, that should all be great.
01:34:10
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And I'm very curious to see if they pulled that off.
01:34:13
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I hope they have.
01:34:14
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- This building has been built for this.
01:34:17
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This is what it's for.
01:34:18
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Like it should be purpose made for journalists.
01:34:22
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So apparently there's some new receipt reservation system
01:34:25
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as well which they never had before.
01:34:28
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Like yeah, I'm really keen just to find out
01:34:30
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what the venue's like.
01:34:31
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But talking about upgrade before we wrap up,
01:34:32
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me and Jason will be doing our draft this week.
01:34:35
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If you've never heard the upgrade keynote drafts,
01:34:38
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they're some of the best episodes of upgrade.
01:34:41
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We have a lot of fun putting those together.
01:34:42
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So that's gonna be, I think we're doing that tomorrow.
01:34:45
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Because of my travel we were a little bit delayed,
01:34:47
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but we're gonna be ending the upgrade summer of fun
01:34:50
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with the keynote draft, I think.
01:34:51
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So that's gonna be happening on upgrade tomorrow,
01:34:55
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►
so you can check that out.
01:34:56
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If you, I mean Federico, what are you planning?
01:35:00
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►
What kind of event coverage are you expecting
01:35:03
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►
to be taking care of at MaxLories?
01:35:06
◼
►
- So the full team should be on hand to cover all the news
01:35:11
◼
►
and all the overviews that we need to do.
01:35:14
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►
I just plan to enjoy, like over the past two years,
01:35:19
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►
I'm fortunate enough to be able to watch the show,
01:35:22
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►
maybe even with Sylvia, enjoy watching the show,
01:35:26
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►
talking with friends on Twitter,
01:35:28
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►
assigning stories to other team members.
01:35:34
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►
Then as soon as the event is over,
01:35:36
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►
upgrade all of my devices to the GM seat of iOS 11
01:35:41
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►
and start taking screenshots
01:35:42
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►
because I'm very happy to communicate, Myke,
01:35:46
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►
that by tomorrow night,
01:35:51
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►
my review should be done.
01:35:55
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►
- Completely edited.
01:35:57
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►
Each chapter has been edited six to seven times,
01:36:02
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►
read aloud, and fully prepared for screenshots and videos.
01:36:08
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►
That's all that's left.
01:36:12
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►
- So, that's, yeah, I can see why you maybe stay away
01:36:15
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►
from the event coverage, 'cause like,
01:36:16
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►
you've gotta get those-- - Oh yeah.
01:36:18
◼
►
- That's done, right, that's like a big, big job.
01:36:20
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►
Because then it's like, well, we have,
01:36:22
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►
I mean, we can assume when iOS will come out,
01:36:25
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►
but nobody knows, think of it like,
01:36:27
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►
iOS is coming out tomorrow.
01:36:28
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►
We don't actually, you know, we can look at history,
01:36:32
◼
►
but nobody really knows, so.
01:36:34
◼
►
- High Sierra's even worse in that regard.
01:36:37
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►
I'm gonna have my review ready,
01:36:38
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►
I could publish it on the 12th,
01:36:39
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►
because they could just be like, "It's out today."
01:36:42
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►
They've done that in the past, just no warning.
01:36:44
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►
So yeah, it's a stressful time if you're a viewer, no doubt.
01:36:48
◼
►
- Turns out, yep, yep, very stressful,
01:36:51
◼
►
very stressful indeed.
01:36:52
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►
You can find our show notes online
01:36:56
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►
over at relay.fm/connected/158.
01:37:00
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►
You can find Federico's work over at maxstories.net
01:37:02
◼
►
and he is @Vittucci on Twitter, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.
01:37:06
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►
You can find Steven's work at 512pixels.net
01:37:08
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►
he is online, he is on Twitter, online. He's on the internet @ismh. I am @imike and I will
01:37:20
◼
►
say to you, dear listeners, we'll be back next week on Wednesday the 13th so we can
01:37:26
◼
►
get some distance from the event so we can talk about everything in fine and thorough
01:37:31
◼
►
detail. But until then, say goodbye guys.