Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 191.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It is brought to you by our lovely sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Squarespace, FreshBooks, and StoryWorth.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I'm your host, Stephen Hackett,

00:00:19 ◼   ► and I am joined right across the table by Myke Hurley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Surprise!

00:00:22 ◼   ► - We're together, we give each other a high five.

00:00:25 ◼   ► See, there's no way to fake that in the edit,

00:00:26 ◼   ► you have to know we're together.

00:00:28 ◼   ► We're joined by a special guest.

00:00:30 ◼   ► I don't want to say that all MacStories employees are interchangeable because they're not, but

00:00:35 ◼   ► we did trade Federico this week for the one and only John Voorhees.

00:00:38 ◼   ► Hey, Stephen, how are you?

00:00:40 ◼   ► Thanks for joining us.

00:00:41 ◼   ► Thank you very much for having me.

00:00:42 ◼   ► We have a new contractual agreement obligation clause for Federico that if you can't make

00:00:46 ◼   ► it, John has to be here.

00:00:47 ◼   ► It's like a whole thing.

00:00:48 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:00:49 ◼   ► I felt a little uncomfortable signing in blood.

00:00:52 ◼   ► I feel like that was… but you know, this is Italian.

00:00:54 ◼   ► They're very passionate people.

00:00:55 ◼   ► They are.

00:00:56 ◼   ► They are.

00:00:57 ◼   ► today so here I am. So we're recording in a hotel room that if you follow me on

00:01:03 ◼   ► Twitter and Instagram you saw a picture of what I do when I'm moving to a hotel

00:01:07 ◼   ► room for a week I set up a podcast studio yeah and cleaning people are

00:01:10 ◼   ► always very concerned that I'm the FBI or Isis or something I don't know. Myke I

00:01:16 ◼   ► believe you have an opening statement. Yeah I do have an opening statement so

00:01:18 ◼   ► we're in Austin Texas right now on my bachelor party which by the way Steven

00:01:26 ◼   ► thank you for arranging all of this. You're welcome. But I have a statement about this

00:01:32 ◼   ► episode. I love podcasting. It is my career. It is the thing I've always wanted to do.

00:01:38 ◼   ► In eight years, I have never recorded a show against my will. This show is being recorded

00:01:46 ◼   ► against my will. We're just going to move right into follow-up. Don't pay attention

00:01:50 ◼   ► to that. I love all of you listeners. I'm being held hostage, if you can hear this.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Please contact the local authorities. He's actually tied to the desk. I can I can attest to that Steven

00:02:01 ◼   ► Also bring this

00:02:03 ◼   ► To the schedule of our week. I propose many ways for us to pre record this episode Steven denied them all so here we are

00:02:10 ◼   ► also doing download live this week and

00:02:13 ◼   ► approximately 37 episodes of subnet

00:02:17 ◼   ► Wow

00:02:19 ◼   ► So we're gonna start with some

00:02:22 ◼   ► follow-up and we talked last week about the pistol emoji and how

00:02:27 ◼   ► Not everyone was on board with changing it from a handgun to water gun. Apple had led that

00:02:33 ◼   ► Charge or fight. I was trying to really avoid that phrase, but I just wanted right into it

00:02:38 ◼   ► Microsoft right after we recorded

00:02:41 ◼   ► announced their new emoji set or an updated emoji set that includes

00:02:45 ◼   ► water pistol so all the major

00:02:49 ◼   ► OS's and and emoji vendors I guess are on board with this change

00:02:54 ◼   ► I I remain to feel really sorry for Microsoft and all this like really bad timing

00:02:59 ◼   ► They you know that I just feel bad for them

00:03:01 ◼   ► They tried to get everybody to do this, you know

00:03:04 ◼   ► Like they tried to lead the charge on us with their ray gun and then Apple just ruined them

00:03:09 ◼   ► Like when they announced their new set and got rid of it all but now I think we could live in a row

00:03:13 ◼   ► We have a water gun and a ray gun. He's like I like the idea of having a ray gun emoji. I miss the ray gun

00:03:18 ◼   ► Yeah, we have a few small vendors out there that are doing the still doing the actual pistol

00:03:24 ◼   ► But yeah, it's all the major ones have switched over to a water gun now and I'd imagine they'll follow suit, right?

00:03:28 ◼   ► Like I think so all the major ones doing it

00:03:30 ◼   ► Well, it's like I mean Apple tend to just lead this in general, but I think that it is very

00:03:37 ◼   ► important that

00:03:40 ◼   ► Emoji look consistent in some way like you can make them at least in meaning visually different

00:03:46 ◼   ► - Right, and it goes back to the, again,

00:03:49 ◼   ► this is all stuff we've spoken about before,

00:03:50 ◼   ► but what used to be the grinning emoji,

00:03:53 ◼   ► like the kind of breathing through closed teeth,

00:03:56 ◼   ► like that one, right?

00:03:58 ◼   ► You know, like on different platforms

00:04:00 ◼   ► that were seen in different ways,

00:04:01 ◼   ► and I think just a new emoji was introduced

00:04:04 ◼   ► to take that meaning, and then they brought,

00:04:06 ◼   ► then grinning, Apple made it a big smile,

00:04:08 ◼   ► and then they kind of just moved on from there,

00:04:10 ◼   ► but like that, the interpretation of emoji is important.

00:04:13 ◼   ► It's important for communication,

00:04:15 ◼   ► And I'm pleased that there's a little bit more consistency now.

00:04:19 ◼   ► Same.

00:04:20 ◼   ► So we also spoke last time about repair costs when dealing with iPhones and stuff.

00:04:26 ◼   ► And we talked about AASPs, which are Apple Authorized Service Providers.

00:04:31 ◼   ► And if you're not familiar with that, we kind of just blew past them last week.

00:04:34 ◼   ► But what these companies are, and I used to manage one for several years, they have a

00:04:40 ◼   ► official relationship with Apple.

00:04:43 ◼   ► They get official Apple parts and can do repairs by technicians who go through the same training

00:04:47 ◼   ► and testing that geniuses do.

00:04:49 ◼   ► So it's not like Uncle Bob's iPhone repair stand on the side of the road.

00:04:52 ◼   ► They're real people with real parts.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And we sort of talked about maybe pricing flexibility when it comes to iPhone repairs.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And I got an email from somebody who manages an ASP now and I thought it was really interesting

00:05:05 ◼   ► because I've been out of that business for so long.

00:05:06 ◼   ► It's obviously very different now.

00:05:09 ◼   ► This person says they have less pricing flexibility

00:05:12 ◼   ► than the Apple store because the prices

00:05:14 ◼   ► that Apple charges customers, like coming in for repairs,

00:05:17 ◼   ► are basically the same prices that Apple charges

00:05:21 ◼   ► the AASP for the parts and stuff.

00:05:24 ◼   ► So like there's, Apple can eat labor,

00:05:26 ◼   ► and if you're an AASP and you eat a bunch of labor,

00:05:28 ◼   ► you don't have a business anymore.

00:05:30 ◼   ► So they struggle to be competitive there.

00:05:33 ◼   ► And they pay the same price in for mail and Mac repairs

00:05:36 ◼   ► that customers do.

00:05:36 ◼   ► So John, if you smash your MacBook Pro

00:05:39 ◼   ► and send it to Apple's repair depot

00:05:41 ◼   ► and they charge you $400,

00:05:43 ◼   ► if you walk in ASP, they're paying Apple $400.

00:05:46 ◼   ► So they may even pay you a markup for handling

00:05:49 ◼   ► and if they're gonna back up your data or something.

00:05:51 ◼   ► So it's a hard business to be in.

00:05:54 ◼   ► Even when I was there, I think I left my ASP life in 2010,

00:05:59 ◼   ► even then it was hard to make a living.

00:06:01 ◼   ► You had to really do it by having service contracts.

00:06:04 ◼   ► Like I do all the repairs for a school

00:06:06 ◼   ► or a lot of consulting.

00:06:07 ◼   ► A lot of these places do mostly consulting

00:06:09 ◼   ► and they do repairs on the side to keep the status.

00:06:11 ◼   ► - It feels like this is only a business

00:06:12 ◼   ► that can really exist in places

00:06:14 ◼   ► that don't have Apple stores now, right?

00:06:16 ◼   ► - Or it's in really big cities

00:06:18 ◼   ► that an Apple store's capacity.

00:06:20 ◼   ► So like in Memphis, we've had an Apple store,

00:06:22 ◼   ► we had one of the first ones, store number 20,

00:06:25 ◼   ► but at the time when I was in the business,

00:06:27 ◼   ► we had three AASPs and most of us were servicing

00:06:30 ◼   ► school districts and private schools and stuff.

00:06:32 ◼   ► But as far as like a walk-in repair business,

00:06:34 ◼   ► that's a really hard way to make a living.

00:06:36 ◼   ► You really don't see very many of them.

00:06:37 ◼   ► I would think it's pretty small, especially in terms of walk-in, but I would think enterprise

00:06:41 ◼   ► and schools would be where that's at.

00:06:42 ◼   ► I think there's quite a lot in Europe because Apple is not in a lot of European countries.

00:06:51 ◼   ► There is not an Apple store in Dublin yet.

00:06:53 ◼   ► And there's quite a few AASPs in Dublin which look just like Apple stores.

00:06:58 ◼   ► It's so funny.

00:06:59 ◼   ► And I get it.

00:07:00 ◼   ► They designed their stores to look like an Apple store, right?

00:07:03 ◼   ► feel more confident walking in than if you're walking in like a place it's like the lights

00:07:07 ◼   ► are flickering and you know there's a CCTV over the counter.

00:07:10 ◼   ► But yeah so like I think in those places it makes a lot of sense to have an AASP because

00:07:15 ◼   ► it's more than just repairs right like they can sell iPhones right they can do all of

00:07:19 ◼   ► that stuff yeah but I you know I can't imagine the AASP business is very thriving in London

00:07:28 ◼   ► where we have like you in some places in London you can't like trip over without falling into

00:07:33 ◼   ► an app store. Right, and if they are thriving it's not because they're repair businesses,

00:07:36 ◼   ► because they're consulting or doing deployments for schools or something else. Yes, what big

00:07:41 ◼   ► businesses. Yeah, you know, school districts are businesses that maybe they're not Mac only,

00:07:46 ◼   ► so they just outsource all the Mac stuff, you know, or they have an, schools especially,

00:07:51 ◼   ► they have an IT department that's a certain size, but when they deploy 1200 new Macbooks every four

00:07:56 ◼   ► years, back when schools bought Macs, you know, you need some extra horsepower, but I mean ours

00:08:02 ◼   ► went out of business like yeah that company doesn't exist anymore and I

00:08:05 ◼   ► think it's just a hard way to go about it. Do they predate the Apple Store completely like with

00:08:10 ◼   ► the ASPs before they were ever Apple Stores? They may have had a different name but blessed Apple

00:08:17 ◼   ► vendors go back to the Apple II days in fact the first one in Memphis I actually

00:08:21 ◼   ► know the owner he was like the first Apple II dealer I think in Tennessee I

00:08:26 ◼   ► mean way way back. Apple has always had like officially blessed retail partners

00:08:31 ◼   ► and it just has evolved over the years to include service.

00:08:34 ◼   ► - So did you say about the fact that they can't even do

00:08:38 ◼   ► iPhone screen repairs in some places?

00:08:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so the last point here was

00:08:42 ◼   ► that most ASPs can't do iPhone screen repairs

00:08:45 ◼   ► in their shops, and so,

00:08:48 ◼   ► 'cause that requires some calibration hardware--

00:08:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, special equipment, right?

00:08:51 ◼   ► - And a bunch of stuff, and so--

00:08:51 ◼   ► - And it's only getting more complicated, right?

00:08:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, and you have to do, you know,

00:08:55 ◼   ► like the Touch ID authentication stuff, and--

00:08:58 ◼   ► - Right.

00:08:59 ◼   ► of unofficial like non ASP like we have one in town called iFix you know I think

00:09:03 ◼   ► they're there I think they're a chain they're not an ASP to my knowledge but

00:09:07 ◼   ► they're getting parts and they're you know figuring it out my point is and I

00:09:12 ◼   ► think it goes to what this person said in their email is that if you need an

00:09:16 ◼   ► iPhone screen repair an ASP is not gonna be cheaper they may not even be able to

00:09:21 ◼   ► do it so like I just tell people this point like just go to the Apple Store

00:09:24 ◼   ► you know because you're not gonna pay if you pay more you're not gonna pay that

00:09:27 ◼   ► much more. It comes with its own repair warranty. You know that the touch ID or you know all

00:09:33 ◼   ► the hardware authentication that goes on is going to work. iOS 11.2 or whatever won't

00:09:38 ◼   ► break your phone. Yeah I was going to say there was that bug not too long ago. Yeah.

00:09:42 ◼   ► So it's you know I think Apple stores where they exist have sucked all the air out of

00:09:46 ◼   ► the room. Now the problem is like you said is a really good point. Apple stores run everywhere.

00:09:50 ◼   ► There are a lot of people, we know people who have to drive a couple hours to go to

00:09:54 ◼   ► an Apple store and Apple just can't be everywhere and they're always they're

00:09:58 ◼   ► always opening new stores like if you look at that retail page that list just

00:10:02 ◼   ► gets longer longer all the time.

00:10:04 ◼   ► Alright, should I take our first break?

00:10:06 ◼   ► Let's do it.

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00:11:39 ◼   ► So let's talk about the most rumored iPhone of all time. The iPhone SE2. You know I think

00:11:47 ◼   ► we talked about the iPhone 10 like a year in advance, you know some stuff was coming

00:11:51 ◼   ► The iPhone SE continues to be in the news.

00:11:53 ◼   ► And so I had said a couple weeks ago that I believe that it will have a metal back.

00:11:58 ◼   ► It's going to be basically the same because the idea of the SE is that it's cheap and

00:12:03 ◼   ► easy to build and Apple can turn them out at this point.

00:12:07 ◼   ► There's a new rumor that the iPhone...

00:12:10 ◼   ► There's always a new rumor.

00:12:11 ◼   ► There's always a new rumor.

00:12:12 ◼   ► This is the most rumored iPhone of all time.

00:12:15 ◼   ► updated iPhone SE shipping this month in May potentially and that it is believed

00:12:21 ◼   ► it will continue to have touch ID with no headphone jack which would be

00:12:25 ◼   ► surprising to me because again it already has that phone jack like change

00:12:30 ◼   ► as low as possible but says no headphone jack and it says that it would have the

00:12:33 ◼   ► ATIN fusion chip which we heard before but to my chagrin the inclusion

00:12:39 ◼   ► potentially of a glass black of a glass back to introduce wireless charging who

00:12:46 ◼   ► would have said that we can't say we can't say Myke was right because it's a

00:12:48 ◼   ► rumor Myke was rumored to be right yeah yes Myke is maybe gonna be right I

00:12:54 ◼   ► removal of the headphone jack and the inclusion of wireless charging makes

00:12:59 ◼   ► sense to me because I every time Apple releases a product that has stuff that

00:13:06 ◼   ► doesn't exist on a previous phone or now exists on a new phone.

00:13:11 ◼   ► It just seems weird, right?

00:13:12 ◼   ► It's like them releasing a new product that didn't have Touch ID when Touch ID became

00:13:18 ◼   ► a thing.

00:13:19 ◼   ► It makes that product feel old instantly.

00:13:21 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:13:22 ◼   ► So whilst I don't think that this thing will have Face ID, because Face ID isn't everywhere

00:13:26 ◼   ► yet, it's on just one product.

00:13:28 ◼   ► There's a lot of hardware involved with that.

00:13:30 ◼   ► That I think you can move away from that, but I really think that putting wireless charging

00:13:35 ◼   ► into this and removing the headphone jack that makes a lot of sense to me.

00:13:38 ◼   ► Sure yeah and maybe they'd release it with the AirPower mat maybe we'll see that someday with

00:13:41 ◼   ► an SE2 you know one back-to-back press releases. Remember when they introduced that 18 years ago?

00:13:46 ◼   ► 18 years ago last June. But it's not late though remember it's not late.

00:13:50 ◼   ► Oh god don't get off the hive. It's not late because you know.

00:13:53 ◼   ► It's only 23 months. Even though I will you know everyone that says this is like

00:13:57 ◼   ► there was Apple put some stuff up in ads right there were these ads that said like early 2018.

00:14:03 ◼   ► Yeah, that thing like I mean it is it's late at this point right like I know

00:14:08 ◼   ► You wouldn't announce it in September if you knew it was gonna be if you knew that like

00:14:15 ◼   ► Made passes and it still hasn't arrived because it hasn't I didn't plan on talking this but it

00:14:20 ◼   ► It's not like the air power off in the distance has like killed the charging base market now

00:14:27 ◼   ► We all have wireless chargers

00:14:29 ◼   ► Yeah

00:14:29 ◼   ► And I mean maybe someone's out there like holding off like just counting their pennies for an airpower and not buying a mophie base

00:14:35 ◼   ► But like the movie stuff and all these other ones are good like I mean we all have them right like we all using wireless

00:14:40 ◼   ► Charging and Myke doesn't like it, but everyone else does and Dina has mine. She's yeah, she loves it

00:14:46 ◼   ► She did have this thing of a day though where we were in bed, and she was like

00:14:49 ◼   ► My phone's gonna die and I want to read on it. I don't know what to do

00:14:53 ◼   ► She's like I don't know what I'm supposed to do I'm like, haha

00:14:58 ◼   ► I just put mine in the little dock again. Well, yeah, we'll use a dock so you couldn't do either like you're holding a dock

00:15:03 ◼   ► Well, but I have a lightning cable plugged in for my iPad. Yeah, just like the really really

00:15:09 ◼   ► Ridiculously long one. Oh, yeah, huge one. I've got one running up through the couch cushions in my living room

00:15:14 ◼   ► It's it's like the best thing you can do a lot of houses to have a long cable in a sofa

00:15:18 ◼   ► So yeah back to the back to the se2 like I see what you're saying

00:15:21 ◼   ► And I think I think both of our points are valid

00:15:23 ◼   ► She says I see which way Apple goes.

00:15:25 ◼   ► Because I agree with you, if they release a phone that is aluminum backed again, so

00:15:30 ◼   ► it doesn't have wireless charging, it has a headphone jack when like nothing else does,

00:15:34 ◼   ► except you know the 7 and 6s that you can still buy like…

00:15:37 ◼   ► But it's new products.

00:15:38 ◼   ► It's a new product.

00:15:39 ◼   ► And so it does, what a glass backing headphone jack does is it makes it feel more premium

00:15:44 ◼   ► and newer than it actually is.

00:15:46 ◼   ► And that's not a bad thing at all because by all indications the SE sold pretty well.

00:15:50 ◼   ► I mean, I know you know, I think it really surprised analysts and like and people who watch this stuff

00:15:55 ◼   ► We're gonna talk more about them later how well it does out in the world. You see them. Yep, and especially in

00:16:01 ◼   ► Other markets it does really well because it's so much cheaper. So I think it's a valuable product

00:16:07 ◼   ► I hope they hope they release a new one and I may be great like it'd be great

00:16:11 ◼   ► I've had a wireless charging and no headphone jack

00:16:13 ◼   ► Like I think about the SE in my household my spouse has one and like it'd be great to have wireless charging

00:16:18 ◼   ► I could put one of those things in the kitchen or somewhere and get rid of the long lightning cable

00:16:23 ◼   ► we have you know, it's always in the way and

00:16:25 ◼   ► She already uses beats X so she doesn't

00:16:28 ◼   ► really care about the headphone jack like I

00:16:31 ◼   ► Don't have any say against it. I just think that the cost thing is an over-ramp factor in my mind for me

00:16:36 ◼   ► It's it's not so much what I

00:16:38 ◼   ► Necessarily think they will do it's more what I think is they should do which is the right decision

00:16:43 ◼   ► I think which is to move the product forward a little bit like not to make it bezel-less

00:16:47 ◼   ► With face like I still think it's gonna have touch ID still an SE right?

00:16:51 ◼   ► It's still that form factor more or less, but I think that there are some steps you can take

00:16:55 ◼   ► To put some new stuff into this especially if this is a product you're only gonna read every two or three years like

00:17:01 ◼   ► Get it far down the road thing every time for those people because it is kind of you know

00:17:08 ◼   ► I've heard this from from

00:17:10 ◼   ► Some listeners especially is like we're talking more about what this year's phones will be and it's like three new phones all bigger

00:17:17 ◼   ► Right now they're all getting bigger

00:17:19 ◼   ► Like it is a shame for people that for whatever reason want the small phone or need the small phone

00:17:26 ◼   ► Yeah that like they just get this

00:17:28 ◼   ► consistently older phone all the time and I think I think out of maybe the iPhone 10 is maybe the best example but like

00:17:36 ◼   ► iPhone SE fans are

00:17:39 ◼   ► Like they are fans of that

00:17:41 ◼   ► You've got it. If you if you love that fun, you feel like you've got to hold on to it and love it

00:17:46 ◼   ► Right, you know what's gonna happen. The business is moving away from many fans. They're all under their best crime

00:17:50 ◼   ► You love that you want because you know, you're in the minority, you know, you're you're bucking against the trend, right?

00:17:59 ◼   ► So like you feel like you've got to be very vocal

00:18:01 ◼   ► I mean there have been times over the last couple years

00:18:04 ◼   ► Especially when I carried a plus phone like every once in a while

00:18:06 ◼   ► I was like, I should buy an SE.

00:18:08 ◼   ► Like, I don't know, it is like popping my head sometimes.

00:18:10 ◼   ► - It's just kind of habit.

00:18:11 ◼   ► - There's something kind of attractive about it, but.

00:18:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, the other thing is, look,

00:18:16 ◼   ► we're halfway through the cycle, right?

00:18:17 ◼   ► We're halfway through 2018 with the new phones

00:18:20 ◼   ► that have wireless charging

00:18:21 ◼   ► and don't have the headphone jack.

00:18:22 ◼   ► So if the SE doesn't come out till later this year

00:18:25 ◼   ► and then we have new phones in September,

00:18:27 ◼   ► that thing, if it's metal-backed,

00:18:29 ◼   ► it's just gonna look older and more dated

00:18:31 ◼   ► much more quickly, I think.

00:18:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, so we'll see what happens.

00:18:35 ◼   ► - Myke, you say that you're impressed

00:18:36 ◼   ► with your HomePod hardware.

00:18:38 ◼   ► I don't know why this is a thing all of a sudden.

00:18:40 ◼   ► - So just like, in the last couple of weeks,

00:18:43 ◼   ► I've just started to notice some stuff

00:18:45 ◼   ► about the HomePod that I've been very impressed with.

00:18:48 ◼   ► It still has a bunch of frustrations.

00:18:49 ◼   ► Like the HomePod misfires way more than any other device.

00:18:54 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:18:56 ◼   ► - So like the Echo does, right?

00:18:57 ◼   ► Like every now and then, the Echo will just be like,

00:19:00 ◼   ► what are you saying?

00:19:01 ◼   ► Or like, oh, resuming Spotify.

00:19:02 ◼   ► Like it will just do it.

00:19:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:19:04 ◼   ► But the home pod does it way more.

00:19:06 ◼   ► And the reason for that is because it isn't doing any

00:19:09 ◼   ► kind of like trying to detect who the voices are.

00:19:12 ◼   ► You know, very frequently I'll be watching a YouTube video

00:19:14 ◼   ► and someone says the Ahoy! telephone phrase

00:19:17 ◼   ► and the home pod will go.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Like in a way that like I watch a bunch.

00:19:21 ◼   ► So like there's like a TV show that we watch

00:19:24 ◼   ► where one of the characters names is the A-L-E-X-A word

00:19:29 ◼   ► and it doesn't go off.

00:19:30 ◼   ► Our echo does not go off

00:19:32 ◼   ► because I assume it's doing something

00:19:34 ◼   ► to try and figure out who the voices are,

00:19:36 ◼   ► but my HomePod triggers all the time.

00:19:39 ◼   ► But anyway, so that's just to say,

00:19:41 ◼   ► yes, it does have its problems,

00:19:43 ◼   ► but those microphones in that thing are incredible.

00:19:47 ◼   ► So I've been kind of testing it,

00:19:50 ◼   ► like listening to loud music and just being like,

00:19:52 ◼   ► very quietly just saying, oh, I telephoned pause.

00:19:55 ◼   ► And it does it.

00:19:57 ◼   ► And my Echo, if there is any kind of white noise,

00:20:00 ◼   ► Like if we have the extractor fan going over the hub, that thing, you have to scream at

00:20:06 ◼   ► it.

00:20:07 ◼   ► But the HomePod, it is unbelievable how well it can hear you.

00:20:11 ◼   ► Yeah, it's bananas.

00:20:12 ◼   ► I actually, the other day, I have my HomePod up in our living room on the first floor of

00:20:16 ◼   ► our house and I was working down in the basement, which is like down a set of stairs around

00:20:20 ◼   ► the corner and I was facing a wall and I was trying to use a hoy telephone with my telephone

00:20:26 ◼   ► and it set off the HomePod on the first floor.

00:20:27 ◼   ► I was amazed really.

00:20:28 ◼   ► I mean, that is a good and bad, right?

00:20:31 ◼   ► 'Cause it's amazing that it did that,

00:20:33 ◼   ► but then there is the bad and like,

00:20:34 ◼   ► it can't always take the, like the home part,

00:20:37 ◼   ► I think all of a sudden it needs to be better

00:20:38 ◼   ► at like understanding what requests it can take,

00:20:41 ◼   ► especially again, come back to this point,

00:20:42 ◼   ► because it can't do everything the phone can do.

00:20:44 ◼   ► But you know, my overall point is that like,

00:20:48 ◼   ► the hardware, that hardware is incredible.

00:20:51 ◼   ► And like, it sounds so good.

00:20:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, the music on that thing is just amazing to me.

00:20:56 ◼   ► And what I appreciate is that it sounds fantastic from really low volumes all the way up to

00:21:01 ◼   ► loud, which is, you know, you can set that, I'll often if everybody's in bed still and

00:21:05 ◼   ► I'm up early in the morning, I'll set it at like 15, which is really quiet.

00:21:09 ◼   ► But because it's such good, the speakers are so good, there's still a lot of definition

00:21:12 ◼   ► in the music and you can hear it very well.

00:21:14 ◼   ► When you're setting the volume, what are you asking for?

00:21:16 ◼   ► Because I can't seem to give it the command at once a lot of the time.

00:21:20 ◼   ► What do you say, like 15%?

00:21:22 ◼   ► I just say 15 most of the time, or 20.

00:21:25 ◼   ► We've struck out like we struggle with this like sometimes like oh hey turn the volume down and it times it down by like a

00:21:31 ◼   ► Minuscule amount right? It's like where the echo seems to have like a scale of like one to ten

00:21:37 ◼   ► The home pods like one to a hundred

00:21:39 ◼   ► Yeah

00:21:39 ◼   ► And it's like asking it to just say turn it up turn it down seems to never give it what I want

00:21:44 ◼   ► Like we have to give it like an incremental percentage

00:21:46 ◼   ► Yeah, and I'm never really sure like I like turn it down ten percent and now I can hear anything

00:21:51 ◼   ► But yeah, it's like I'm not 100% sure what the phrasing is. And this is the problem with with

00:21:55 ◼   ► Trying to run and maintain multiple

00:21:59 ◼   ► Devices that they have different vernacular that you use and it can be really tricky

00:22:05 ◼   ► Like it wants, you know

00:22:06 ◼   ► The echo wants it in this way and the home pod wants it this way and trying to remember which one is which

00:22:12 ◼   ► I've noticed that when I talk to my echo I say hey echo name like because I'm used to saying, you know

00:22:19 ◼   ► Hey, but like it's today a nice to say amount of syllables is what I call the echo, but it feels more awkward

00:22:25 ◼   ► Hey, Sarah

00:22:27 ◼   ► the

00:22:28 ◼   ► The thing I've really noticed about the home pod so mine got demoted out of our kitchen

00:22:31 ◼   ► The echo is back in the kitchen and the home pods in my office and two things

00:22:35 ◼   ► Really stand out at me one is what you already touched on that. It doesn't always do a great jobs like

00:22:40 ◼   ► One thing I do very often have my phone in my hand

00:22:43 ◼   ► I walk in my office and I've got a home kit scene set up to turn the lights on my desk and the lights on

00:22:48 ◼   ► some shelving in my office.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Like those are all when I work.

00:22:51 ◼   ► So I'll say, "Ahoy, telephone."

00:22:55 ◼   ► The name of the scene is "Studio On."

00:22:57 ◼   ► So all you have to say is, "Ahoy, telephone.

00:22:59 ◼   ► Studio On."

00:23:00 ◼   ► And most of the time the HomePod picks it up.

00:23:02 ◼   ► But sometimes my iPhone does because it's in my hand and the screen's on because it's

00:23:06 ◼   ► been moved or something.

00:23:07 ◼   ► And it would be nice to have an option, I think, to have the HomePod have a different

00:23:10 ◼   ► wake word so I can direct something just to it.

00:23:13 ◼   ► The other thing, and I think I talked about this when it first came out, and it annoys

00:23:16 ◼   ► me to this day is that if you touch the top of it and nothing's going on it starts playing

00:23:21 ◼   ► music and you brush it and I don't mind that but put it behind a double tap or something

00:23:27 ◼   ► because at least where mine is I can come in contact with it accidentally.

00:23:32 ◼   ► I would like buttons.

00:23:33 ◼   ► I don't know why it needs to be a touch sensitive surface when it actually doesn't do anything.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Because Johnny Ive hates…

00:23:38 ◼   ► I do like the little animation that it makes but it would be nice if it could have that

00:23:43 ◼   ► Animation but have play pause physical buttons. Yes, I would prefer that's one thing

00:23:47 ◼   ► It's really nice about the echo is that I can put my hand on a note

00:23:50 ◼   ► It's doing yeah

00:23:50 ◼   ► But like or just again give me the option to disable that because I set it off

00:23:54 ◼   ► Pretty often and if you had the music playing loudly last time the music starts playing loudly and it can be surprising

00:24:00 ◼   ► Yeah, but I will say overall like over time

00:24:04 ◼   ► I am more impressed rather than less impressed because the things that I was I'm not impressed with I just don't do those on it

00:24:10 ◼   ► Right, like I stopped trying to do X Y & Z on it or like

00:24:13 ◼   ► Stopped getting like particularly frustrated with the thing that it does like some of the frustrations that I have of it. I just they are like

00:24:21 ◼   ► Conceptual frustrations because they're not things I use like I don't use

00:24:26 ◼   ► Siri kit stuff. I'd never ask my iPhone. I never asked Siri to do anything anyway

00:24:34 ◼   ► So the fact that the home pod can't do it doesn't bother me

00:24:37 ◼   ► I've started to use the Sera can integrations for things like reminders or adding to things because my home pods sitting in my living room

00:24:44 ◼   ► Kitchen and usually when I'm in there, I'm making a meal or I'm doing something

00:24:48 ◼   ► That's not sitting at a Mac or using an iOS device

00:24:51 ◼   ► So if I think of something oftentimes I will use it for that and it got a lot better with 11-3

00:24:56 ◼   ► And you know, it's telling me a story which I was very proud of her

00:24:59 ◼   ► She had like the early adopters dilemma of your you're in a conversation with people

00:25:05 ◼   ► And it was two friends like to work colleagues were talking about how bad the echo is

00:25:11 ◼   ► They're like, oh it doesn't do anything like it's rubbish

00:25:14 ◼   ► All I can do is just order stuff on Amazon with it

00:25:17 ◼   ► Like it doesn't do anything and then it is like well, but she's like I tell you what I'll do every day

00:25:22 ◼   ► I ask it for the time and I'm getting ready

00:25:24 ◼   ► So no the time is asking for the wet for the weather every day

00:25:26 ◼   ► We turn our lights on and off with it

00:25:28 ◼   ► We order our groceries with it because it plugs into our grocery like delivery service. I will set timers for it

00:25:34 ◼   ► I do unit conversions like I'm so proud of you like she's like cuz she's like no

00:25:38 ◼   ► I really because she really loves it like I'm actually thinking about getting a spot

00:25:44 ◼   ► Because our echo the second generation echo. I think our one is broken

00:25:50 ◼   ► I don't think because it very infrequently

00:25:54 ◼   ► Can hear me or and it very frequently fails and we have three or three echo devices in our home now and

00:26:02 ◼   ► The the dot and the first gen echo have no problem

00:26:06 ◼   ► But the second gen echo in the kitchen and we moved it to the bedroom and it's always consistently struggling, huh?

00:26:12 ◼   ► Yeah, mine doesn't do that. It sounds like you got one. I think we have a bomb one

00:26:15 ◼   ► so like I've been thinking about getting like I've been thinking about like

00:26:19 ◼   ► Contacting Amazon and doing whatever like that's on my list to do but I've also been like I've seen some ads for the spot recently

00:26:26 ◼   ► I like it a lot. What do you like about it? I just like the size

00:26:30 ◼   ► It's like a night, you know, it's a nice little globe sits on my desk and when I'm not using it

00:26:36 ◼   ► I've still got the time with a nice wallpaper on it and I can see

00:26:39 ◼   ► headlines come through during the day and the weather and this is what I was thinking right because this is like in the morning and

00:26:44 ◼   ► You know wants to know the weather and she wants another time

00:26:46 ◼   ► She's getting ready and this would stop her from actually having to ask because it's perfect for that on it. It's perfect

00:26:52 ◼   ► I'm thinking about game one. I I

00:26:55 ◼   ► It looks good as like a little alarm clock II type thing

00:26:58 ◼   ► It's very much that it's good for I would think it'd be good for a bedside type of clock

00:27:02 ◼   ► She's what we would or a desk which is what I use it for or even in a kitchen next to your phone or something

00:27:07 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, and and then also like every time I think about like a little bit it has a camera

00:27:12 ◼   ► But then I have to remind myself

00:27:14 ◼   ► That there are like seven cameras in our bedroom because of all of our phones and I had some like it's like whatever like it

00:27:20 ◼   ► Is what it is. It has a camera and I've never used it

00:27:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I'm never gonna use it right it's there

00:27:26 ◼   ► I mean, I suppose I could be spying on it if I want to like if you know

00:27:30 ◼   ► if you know if because we're never gonna we're never gonna video call anyone because I think that that's dumb with the echo but

00:27:35 ◼   ► That it's um, this kind of in my like

00:27:39 ◼   ► To purchase list I think like it just looks like a nice. It just looks like a nice little product. I think yeah

00:27:45 ◼   ► So moving on a little bit this happened last week, but I want to touch on it just for a second that Apple officially

00:27:52 ◼   ► Discontinued its Airport line. This was a report from Mark Gurman back

00:27:56 ◼   ► November 2016 I don't want to talk about November 2016. Yeah

00:28:01 ◼   ► The dark time but it's not a political comment we're talking about just airports people know me

00:28:08 ◼   ► But their Apple officially acknowledges and press outlets that they have discontinued the airport line. They're selling off the inventory they have

00:28:16 ◼   ► so no more Airport Express extreme or time capsule and

00:28:21 ◼   ► I gotta say I'm disappointed. I'm not surprised right like those are different feelings

00:28:26 ◼   ► But I am disappointed for a couple of reasons one you guys spoke about this on upgrade

00:28:31 ◼   ► But the Express and the time capsule do things that are difficult to pull off otherwise where you have

00:28:37 ◼   ► It's a little wireless thing and you can stream music from iTunes or from your from an iOS device to it and has an aux

00:28:42 ◼   ► Jack so you can plug it into your stereo system

00:28:45 ◼   ► I know several people who have used that over the years and again

00:28:48 ◼   ► it's something probably like the SE that it's not a huge deal but people who like have built a system around it really care

00:28:54 ◼   ► But I think the the bigger disappointment is the time capsule that having a thing. That was your wireless router and wireless backup

00:29:01 ◼   ► Was great, especially, you know, most people have notebooks, you know

00:29:05 ◼   ► We are all I think all three of us have desktops as well where those are our primary max

00:29:09 ◼   ► but that's different than most people and

00:29:12 ◼   ► You just have a house full of laptops backing up to a thing in the closet. It's pretty great

00:29:17 ◼   ► You can do that still so hi Sierra introduced

00:29:20 ◼   ► It basically brought time machine server from Mac OS server

00:29:23 ◼   ► Which is also dead to Mac OS client where you can plug a big drive into a Mac Mini or something remember when they made

00:29:29 ◼   ► Those this the further I go down this is a trend here

00:29:32 ◼   ► It's just bad more dead hardware and you can share that disk with time machine users in the house. But uh,

00:29:38 ◼   ► Those things I think performed important functions in the Apple ecosystem and most importantly

00:29:45 ◼   ► I think there were a lot of people who could understand the airport software and like how it worked

00:29:51 ◼   ► because it really was like a good example of like, you know

00:29:55 ◼   ► Apple taking something complex and making it simple enough and you could still do like complex things on it if you wanted to right

00:30:03 ◼   ► But like if you just want to set up a wireless password and like have a guest access

00:30:07 ◼   ► It was really easy and I got no, you know

00:30:09 ◼   ► There are other products that do a good job of that

00:30:11 ◼   ► but if you're gonna replace it with like a netgear or a linksys or something those interfaces are confusing and

00:30:16 ◼   ► You can set something up wrong and not really know why like the airport would even give you warnings

00:30:21 ◼   ► Like if you said if you turned off DHCP or you had double NAT or something it would tell you

00:30:26 ◼   ► hey, this configuration is gonna act up in this way and it walk you through resolving it and

00:30:31 ◼   ► Very few products do that. And so I just I understand why this isn't this just isn't a business

00:30:37 ◼   ► They should be in anymore like

00:30:40 ◼   ► I think their customers benefit from this sort of hardware being available

00:30:43 ◼   ► I repeat what I said on upgrade but if Apple want to continue in this business

00:30:48 ◼   ► They have to build a mesh product because that's where the business is now

00:30:52 ◼   ► Right, and I just think that is a that is a distraction and a waste of time for them to do because there are good

00:30:57 ◼   ► Products that exist get a rose sponsor like but there are more than that. You know, there's there's or be or be and

00:31:03 ◼   ► Google Wi-Fi and stuff. Yeah, they these products all exist. I just think that it

00:31:08 ◼   ► Considering everything else Apple has to do considering how much we complain about all of the things they're not focusing on

00:31:15 ◼   ► Don't put focus into this as well, right?

00:31:18 ◼   ► Like, you know just in talking about that you were talking about your frustrations about the Mac Mini

00:31:22 ◼   ► The Mac Mini is more important to have engineers on it is you spend any time building a mesh Wi-Fi product

00:31:27 ◼   ► But hey, there's not the same engineering teams. No, but like you just to put any resources and focus on

00:31:33 ◼   ► Yeah, but I mean this is a conversation we don't have to have today

00:31:35 ◼   ► But like again, it's stupid that Apple can't walk and shoot to gum at the same time

00:31:39 ◼   ► Well, yeah, but we know they can't so like it I feel like it's it's at this point

00:31:44 ◼   ► It feels almost pointless to me to say like oh

00:31:47 ◼   ► But they should be able to because we have to like just accept at this point that they are a company who has

00:31:52 ◼   ► The the capacity for only limited focus. Yeah, and and in that world where that is true

00:31:58 ◼   ► And I don't think that's changing anytime soon

00:31:59 ◼   ► Then you're right that they should focus on things that are more important

00:32:03 ◼   ► An interesting side effect of this is all these other companies you mentioned

00:32:06 ◼   ► They have a bunch of Apple people in them and it's showing in their products and the way they're laid out

00:32:11 ◼   ► So one thing this has done has done starting two years ago

00:32:15 ◼   ► whenever that announcement came out is that these other products have gotten better, but

00:32:19 ◼   ► You know people a this so many people don't buy very often and so, you know by time your time capsule dies in two years

00:32:26 ◼   ► Maybe there'll be something out there like what this does do I think it shows like

00:32:30 ◼   ► Eero or links this or whoever like build a product that duplicates these things because clearly

00:32:36 ◼   ► There was a market for example

00:32:38 ◼   ► yeah, because Apple was in this business for over a decade and

00:32:42 ◼   ► like the time capsule in particular like so many people use that thing and

00:32:47 ◼   ► You know now it's you can do it. We got to be a lot nerdier to do it

00:32:52 ◼   ► I think it's worth pointing out too though that you can

00:32:54 ◼   ► Transition away from the Apple products to something else and still use them kind of in a mixed environment

00:32:59 ◼   ► Yeah, because I last summer set up an Orbi network at my house

00:33:02 ◼   ► And I still have a time capsule hanging off of it in an Airport Express

00:33:06 ◼   ► Which is using the you know doing the the music yeah for for our back patio

00:33:10 ◼   ► So I've got those integrated into that Orbi system and it works just fine now those since Apple's not making those products anymore

00:33:16 ◼   ► Eventually those will die but they've there I've had those each I think two or three years

00:33:21 ◼   ► So I'm hoping I'll get at least another year or two out of them. Yeah, I have some important news

00:33:26 ◼   ► news. Oh okay. I have bought the first piece of my gaming PC. What did you buy?

00:33:32 ◼   ► A GPU? I bought a motherboard. Motherboard. So a friend of mine, an amazing

00:33:39 ◼   ► youtuber, Austin Evans, has been helping me with some parts. Because he did a

00:33:45 ◼   ► video, a YouTube video, like a couple of weeks ago about building a streaming PC

00:33:50 ◼   ► and I'm like, "Austin, like this is, it's like you made this video for me, it's

00:33:54 ◼   ► exactly what I want but I didn't like the case because the case was way too

00:33:58 ◼   ► gaming PC. Yeah I watched that video that case was insane. So I asked him for

00:34:03 ◼   ► some suggestions for some other like cases and so he's made some

00:34:08 ◼   ► suggestions and I was looking through the parts and one of the like the

00:34:11 ◼   ► motherboard is back ordered so I decided to order that. Okay. And that's gonna be

00:34:15 ◼   ► coming from the US like and it arrived sometime in mid-may and then and then

00:34:20 ◼   ► when I get back I'm gonna start slowly assembling all of the other pieces that

00:34:23 ◼   ► I need I'm going with the AMD ryzen line. Okay, because it seems like it's really powerful stuff

00:34:30 ◼   ► That's what we did when we built one around you're happy with it. Yeah, very happy with it

00:34:34 ◼   ► But I'll tell you it was frustrating building that thing. Why?

00:34:37 ◼   ► It just didn't work when we put it together. Yeah

00:34:40 ◼   ► We ended up hiring someone to figure out what we didn't get right because it just wouldn't work

00:34:47 ◼   ► YouTube videos they think it they all apply. Yeah, I am expecting

00:34:52 ◼   ► To have lots of problems, but it's a good PC now. It actually works

00:34:56 ◼   ► I'm expecting to get very frustrated with it and I'm gonna watch lots of YouTube videos and read loads of articles

00:35:02 ◼   ► But I do really just I want to build it. I want to build it. So I think it'll be fun

00:35:06 ◼   ► I've never done that kind of thing before so that's what I want to do

00:35:09 ◼   ► And it's what you got to do if you want to play with some of those games that you want to play like pub G

00:35:12 ◼   ► And Fortin, yeah, I mean you can I could buy I could buy an alien where right and it would get me there

00:35:18 ◼   ► But and then I could also upgrade it

00:35:20 ◼   ► But I want to actually to see if I'm able to piece it and I'm sure I'm gonna break something really expensive

00:35:25 ◼   ► But like hey ho you live and learn. Yeah, I've I don't really have a need for a PC

00:35:31 ◼   ► But like every six months I'm like I can't want to build one

00:35:33 ◼   ► Yeah, like I have those skills and I haven't used them in a long time

00:35:36 ◼   ► But I think you're gonna be happy with that. It seems like AMD is doing a really good job

00:35:41 ◼   ► They just revved all those processors like two weeks ago

00:35:43 ◼   ► And I mean the Verizon stuff is really at certain price points are very competitive with Intel and that's exciting because

00:35:49 ◼   ► That was not the case for a really long time

00:35:52 ◼   ► So I'm gonna I'm gonna give it a go this I reckon

00:35:55 ◼   ► Before WWDC I'll have done it. Yeah, that's the plan. Are you gonna do a video?

00:36:00 ◼   ► You're gonna show it off once it's done. Maybe I'd like to see it. Yeah, maybe probably probably something

00:36:06 ◼   ► Well, that's exciting man. I know you talked about that a long time. I'm glad you didn't know I'm fine

00:36:09 ◼   ► It's because I have started doing more streaming. I mean the Mac's dead. So you might as well build a PC

00:36:14 ◼   ► Transition into Windows and Android start looking for the GPU now because with the with the Bitcoin miners the prices on those things are really

00:36:22 ◼   ► High sometimes. Yeah, that's probably gonna be the next thing that I buy will be the GPU and just slowly but buy everything else

00:36:28 ◼   ► I'll start start. Yeah start carving out and working now. I'm gonna get one of those crazy like

00:36:33 ◼   ► Razor keyboards with all the LEDs in it. Are you really?

00:36:36 ◼   ► cripple your hands. The thing is, I'm not gonna play on keyboard and mouse.

00:36:43 ◼   ► What do you type on right now? The Microsoft Sculptor. I'm sure mechanical LED.

00:36:48 ◼   ► But the thing is like it will purely be for just for decoration and launching

00:36:52 ◼   ► games because I'm gonna buy an Xbox controller. Like I am NOT a keyboard and

00:36:56 ◼   ► mouse game player. Like that is not, yeah, I don't know how, I just don't have those

00:37:00 ◼   ► skills. Right. But I just, I want to buy some stuff which is dumb gaming PC stuff.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Yeah, like the fan that I'm buying has an LED in it

00:37:08 ◼   ► You know how LED you're gonna get I want it to went that the raisin they do like a rainbow one

00:37:17 ◼   ► I want to get that one. Yeah, let's watch that strange glow coming from Myke's house

00:37:20 ◼   ► It's his PC. Yeah, it's a you know

00:37:24 ◼   ► The episode of Seinfeld where the chicken place opens across the street and Kramer opens his door on the red light

00:37:28 ◼   ► Yes, it's gonna be like outside Myke's door. I get when I was his rainbow light streaming into the hallway

00:37:33 ◼   ► We've been talking for 37 minutes that have not moved any real topics yet. We're in so many topics

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00:39:25 ◼   ► So yesterday on May 1st, Apple had its Q2 earnings report come out and spoiler alert

00:39:32 ◼   ► guys, they're still in business.

00:39:34 ◼   ► Really?

00:39:35 ◼   ► I know, I really thought...

00:39:36 ◼   ► Whoa, hang on a second.

00:39:37 ◼   ► No way.

00:39:38 ◼   ► It wasn't, didn't WYde just do like that Prey cover?

00:39:42 ◼   ► Wasn't that just like a couple of weeks ago or something?

00:39:45 ◼   ► So I'm going to blast you some numbers real quick so we can see what's interesting they

00:39:48 ◼   ► were talking about.

00:39:49 ◼   ► $61.1 billion in revenue. It's a record for Q2, up from $52.9 billion a year ago. $9.19

00:39:56 ◼   ► billion in services, up from $7 billion. That just keeps on going.

00:40:03 ◼   ► It's only going to keep on going.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Yeah. It's Apple Music, it's iCloud storage.

00:40:06 ◼   ► It will be Apple Television.

00:40:07 ◼   ► Yep, it'll be video soon.

00:40:09 ◼   ► This is the thing, for multiple reasons. One, because it's money from your existing customers,

00:40:15 ◼   ► and it's monthly recurring money from your existing customers.

00:40:18 ◼   ► So it only in theory ever goes up because it just keeps going and you add more people

00:40:23 ◼   ► and it just keeps going up.

00:40:25 ◼   ► And also Apple are putting so much focus into it because it's the only part of their business

00:40:30 ◼   ► right now and for the foreseeable future that will see increased huge growth.

00:40:36 ◼   ► They can't double the number of iPhones sold but they could double their service.

00:40:39 ◼   ► And they will.

00:40:40 ◼   ► And they will continue to do that for some time I think.

00:40:43 ◼   ► products so this includes Apple watch home pod iPod socks all that stuffs well

00:40:48 ◼   ► 3.5 billion from 2.8 that's not the highest it's ever been but you know the

00:40:54 ◼   ► Apple watch always does really well for the holidays but clearly those products

00:40:58 ◼   ► are selling well it's worth noting home pod was not mentioned in it but they

00:41:02 ◼   ► don't mention the Apple watch it's not surprising they didn't even mention that

00:41:05 ◼   ► like that exists doing really good they just didn't say anything that's right

00:41:11 ◼   ► Yeah, like this is something that I read in and in Jason's Macworld article

00:41:14 ◼   ► He was like you would expect them to at least say something like we're really pleased of how home part has been selling

00:41:20 ◼   ► Like they will always throw something in for a new product. They didn't even say they said nothing

00:41:24 ◼   ► Yeah, because they say like, you know, the Apple the Apple watch is selling it twice the rate

00:41:30 ◼   ► Yes, like time this is a good or of all time for it or like, you know any you know

00:41:34 ◼   ► They're like, oh we haven't even been able to keep them from flying off the shelves or whatever, but you know nothing about the home

00:41:40 ◼   ► Yeah, that doesn't mean it's a disaster, but it is notable. It wasn't called

00:41:45 ◼   ► Yeah

00:41:48 ◼   ► 9.1 million iPad sold up from 8.9

00:41:51 ◼   ► That's with no new the only new thing is that 9.7 and that was pretty late area. We have really so no

00:41:58 ◼   ► iPad versions have been the same for a while. I'm just continue to be very pleased about this

00:42:03 ◼   ► Turnaround has happened for max were basically flat

00:42:06 ◼   ► they were down a little bit 4.1 million to 4.2 with no new products since last year so

00:42:13 ◼   ► right doesn't mean that's right so but the big number of course is the number of iPhones and

00:42:19 ◼   ► again there was some discussion about the iPhone 10 not selling as well 52.2 million iPhones sold

00:42:26 ◼   ► in the quarter up from 50.8 with it's Tim Cook said on the call that the iPhone 10 is the best

00:42:35 ◼   ► selling phone right now and has been every week since it debuted and this is even a statement

00:42:40 ◼   ► going back. Do you remember last quarter there was that report that the 8 or maybe even like

00:42:45 ◼   ► the 7 was like the best selling phone right the new phones weren't. That's Apple continuing

00:42:49 ◼   ► to address that narrative. It is worth noticing that the ASP so the average selling price

00:42:54 ◼   ► of the phone slipped a little bit so it may be I was talking to Jason about this last

00:42:58 ◼   ► night his idea and I think it's probably accurate is that the iPhone 10 had a lot of pent up

00:43:04 ◼   ► up demand, right?

00:43:05 ◼   ► 'Cause all the nerds wanted it.

00:43:06 ◼   ► That's a very large user base,

00:43:08 ◼   ► people who always want the newest thing.

00:43:09 ◼   ► And those people paying with a broad stroke buy early.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And so the iPhone 10 had a really big out of the gate

00:43:18 ◼   ► and they've ramped up production.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Now they're slowing that down a little bit,

00:43:20 ◼   ► which is where that report comes from.

00:43:22 ◼   ► So it may be that the eight and eight plus and the 10

00:43:24 ◼   ► are sort of balancing out somehow.

00:43:26 ◼   ► The 10 is still the best selling phone,

00:43:28 ◼   ► but maybe that gap is a little smaller.

00:43:30 ◼   ► - Different mix basically.

00:43:31 ◼   ► - But it's still good news for the iPhone 10

00:43:33 ◼   ► and it's Apple addressing that head on

00:43:37 ◼   ► that the 10 is still selling better than anything else.

00:43:41 ◼   ► And I don't know, before we get back into this,

00:43:43 ◼   ► I was just curious about the two of you.

00:43:45 ◼   ► Out in the world, I feel like I see a lot of iPhone 10s.

00:43:49 ◼   ► I see a ton of 8s.

00:43:50 ◼   ► I think a lot of people went from the 6 or 6s to the 8.

00:43:53 ◼   ► I think the 8s are doing very well.

00:43:54 ◼   ► - I think it's hard for me.

00:43:55 ◼   ► I don't see 8s.

00:43:57 ◼   ► I don't know if I'm seeing 8s.

00:43:58 ◼   ► - That's true, it is hard to tell.

00:43:59 ◼   ► - Because people put them in cases, so it's hard to see.

00:44:01 ◼   ► - They look the same.

00:44:02 ◼   ► I see a lot of 10s in London, like it is a lot of my friends have them.

00:44:07 ◼   ► Like I feel like this is obviously incredibly anecdotal,

00:44:11 ◼   ► but more people in my life bought the 10

00:44:15 ◼   ► than they would have bought an eight.

00:44:18 ◼   ► In this like in the sense of going back previous years,

00:44:20 ◼   ► it feels like a lot of people that I know upgraded,

00:44:23 ◼   ► like a lot of people upgraded to that phone in a way that they may not have

00:44:28 ◼   ► necessarily upgraded in previous years.

00:44:30 ◼   ► I feel like initially I didn't see a lot of Xs.

00:44:33 ◼   ► I knew a lot of people who had them.

00:44:35 ◼   ► People like you guys had the X, but when I was out on the street, I didn't see a lot

00:44:39 ◼   ► of them initially, but I've seen a lot more in the last quarter or so.

00:44:42 ◼   ► I mean, again, very anecdotal, but I feel like we had that bump of the early adopters

00:44:47 ◼   ► and then they started to catch on as people started getting familiar with what it does

00:44:52 ◼   ► and starting to upgrade their phones around the holiday quarter and so forth.

00:44:55 ◼   ► Super off topic.

00:44:56 ◼   ► I love my iPhone X so much.

00:44:58 ◼   ► Oh, I do too.

00:44:59 ◼   ► Battery's so good. It's so good. I landed in Austin 55% battery life.

00:45:05 ◼   ► That's pretty crazy. He was on flight forever.

00:45:07 ◼   ► It's a 10 hour flight. I was traveling in the morning doing everything and doing all

00:45:11 ◼   ► the stuff that you do when you travel.

00:45:12 ◼   ► Instagram stories mostly.

00:45:13 ◼   ► Instagram stories.

00:45:14 ◼   ► You have your suitcase.

00:45:15 ◼   ► I had it like on airplane mode when I was flying and I landed 55% battery life.

00:45:20 ◼   ► It's really good and I've been happy with the hardware. It's been funny to compare

00:45:24 ◼   ► because they're a bunch of nerds together this week and like everyone's iPhone X is

00:45:27 ◼   ► all scratched up. You can tell he doesn't use a case. Mostly me. You can see how they

00:45:32 ◼   ► age and it's interesting to see that. Like I don't see many of the black ones. Like I

00:45:37 ◼   ► feel like the silver... The brown one. Yeah, I don't like the black. It's really strange

00:45:43 ◼   ► in certain lights. It's not saturated enough for me. And maybe that's because I had the

00:45:46 ◼   ► matte black iPhone 7 Plus, which is still my favorite iPhone to date. I love the way

00:45:52 ◼   ► that phone looked. But the iPhone X is still doing well and I think that's, I think Apple

00:45:57 ◼   ► really wants to drive that home that this isn't a mistake. You know, and we talked about

00:46:03 ◼   ► it when the iPhone X was first announced, about part of it feels like, what is the ceiling

00:46:10 ◼   ► for an iPhone price point? And maybe the X is it, I think it probably is.

00:46:14 ◼   ► No, it's not, man.

00:46:15 ◼   ► You think it can go higher?

00:46:16 ◼   ► Well, the Plus one will be more expensive.

00:46:18 ◼   ► It will. It'll probably be like $13, $1400.

00:46:21 ◼   ► And here's the thing, right?

00:46:23 ◼   ► So there's this whole -- I'm very confused about a lot of the analyst reporting at the

00:46:28 ◼   ► moment because all analysts seem really set on specific things.

00:46:34 ◼   ► And then Apple is saying, no, it's not the case when it comes to the results.

00:46:38 ◼   ► And I can't get my head around who is right and who is wrong.

00:46:43 ◼   ► Like I'm really struggling with this because all analysts in the last quarter and this

00:46:49 ◼   ► quarter leading up to it are like the iPhone 10 is not selling, it's not selling well,

00:46:54 ◼   ► it's selling worse than other phones and then Apple were like nope it's the best one and

00:46:59 ◼   ► they said like they've never had the most expensive phone be the top seller before and

00:47:03 ◼   ► it is and they're selling more of them and then analysts are saying that the next quarter

00:47:07 ◼   ► is going to be bad but then Apple forecasted year on year revenue growth like they forecasted

00:47:12 ◼   ► for $51 to $53.5 billion in revenue, Q3 2017 was $52.9.

00:47:19 ◼   ► So it might be a little bit under.

00:47:22 ◼   ► It might be higher.

00:47:25 ◼   ► It is going to keep growing, basically, right?

00:47:28 ◼   ► Yeah, I think part of that is the fact

00:47:30 ◼   ► that these small tidbits of information

00:47:32 ◼   ► come out from the supply chain.

00:47:33 ◼   ► Like the fact that component orders were down,

00:47:36 ◼   ► and suddenly component orders being down

00:47:38 ◼   ► aren't necessarily something that's

00:47:41 ◼   ► typical in the business.

00:47:42 ◼   ► it becomes a much more, a bigger story.

00:47:44 ◼   ► It gets overblown very easily by a lot of the analysts

00:47:47 ◼   ► and that becomes the narrative until we get to the point

00:47:50 ◼   ► where Apple can correct the narrative.

00:47:51 ◼   ► - I misspoke there quickly and I wanna correct myself.

00:47:54 ◼   ► Q3 guidance is 51 to 53 billion, Q3 2017 was 45.

00:47:59 ◼   ► So it's significantly more.

00:48:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, they aim low.

00:48:03 ◼   ► 'Cause if you miss that, then you're really gonna get it.

00:48:05 ◼   ► - But it's still like a significantly,

00:48:07 ◼   ► it's a significant increase, 45 to 51, right?

00:48:10 ◼   ► Like it's big in that quarter,

00:48:12 ◼   ► which is a kind of weird quarter, right?

00:48:14 ◼   ► Because this is it, right?

00:48:16 ◼   ► Like the analysts are saying going into this,

00:48:18 ◼   ► there were all these reports of,

00:48:20 ◼   ► oh, the iPhone's selling really bad,

00:48:23 ◼   ► leading up to June.

00:48:24 ◼   ► - Yeah. - But how can it be?

00:48:26 ◼   ► It can't be, right?

00:48:28 ◼   ► - No, it can't be. - If the unit sales

00:48:29 ◼   ► are still up, maybe not massive, but still up,

00:48:32 ◼   ► and they're still forecasting,

00:48:34 ◼   ► 'cause they can only grow in revenue

00:48:35 ◼   ► if the iPhone's selling well,

00:48:36 ◼   ► because that's what drives the revenue.

00:48:38 ◼   ► So what it just feels like is, for some reason,

00:48:42 ◼   ► everyone wants it to fail, and that they find any news,

00:48:47 ◼   ► and they say, oh, that must be it.

00:48:48 ◼   ► Because they say, there's these component reports, right?

00:48:51 ◼   ► And Luca addressed it, and he was like, yes,

00:48:54 ◼   ► we've basically done some stuff with some inventory,

00:48:59 ◼   ► but it's gonna come out in the wash.

00:49:00 ◼   ► - Right.

00:49:01 ◼   ► - And it's just so interesting to me right now

00:49:05 ◼   ► that there is all this reporting again

00:49:08 ◼   ► about the fact that the iPhone X is doing really badly,

00:49:13 ◼   ► and then Apple keeps saying,

00:49:14 ◼   ► well, you're like, LOL, you were wrong.

00:49:17 ◼   ► And I'm really struggling to kind of

00:49:20 ◼   ► understand why it's happening.

00:49:21 ◼   ► Why are people looking for this?

00:49:24 ◼   ► - Well, and I don't want to get off on the crazy train

00:49:28 ◼   ► of where this conversation could go,

00:49:31 ◼   ► but there's very little punishment or risk

00:49:36 ◼   ► for an analyst being wrong about this sort of thing, really.

00:49:39 ◼   ► - But if they're right-- - But if they get it right,

00:49:40 ◼   ► then they're rock stars.

00:49:41 ◼   ► And so if you break the story that the iPhone X

00:49:44 ◼   ► is gonna be selling behind the eight

00:49:46 ◼   ► and then Apple confirms that, then you're an analyst god.

00:49:49 ◼   ► But if you're wrong about it, people forget.

00:49:51 ◼   ► - And it's a more exciting story to write.

00:49:54 ◼   ► I mean, look, 'cause you can look at the reports

00:49:56 ◼   ► of components being orders going down,

00:50:00 ◼   ► and it's very easy to draw that line

00:50:02 ◼   ► to what they must not be selling as many iPhones.

00:50:05 ◼   ► but they seem to be so sure of it, right?

00:50:10 ◼   ► Like, oh no, this is definitely it.

00:50:12 ◼   ► We've done all of our surveys from something

00:50:15 ◼   ► and no one's buying it.

00:50:16 ◼   ► And it just seems so interesting and weird to me.

00:50:21 ◼   ► Like this stuff seems to have really kicked up a notch

00:50:24 ◼   ► since the iPhone 10 came out.

00:50:26 ◼   ► That like everybody, and I guess maybe it's because

00:50:28 ◼   ► there just isn't precedent for this.

00:50:31 ◼   ► So like analysts are assuming based upon trends in the past

00:50:35 ◼   ► that it cannot succeed because this has never happened before.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and I think they look at it from the standpoint of the iPhone 10 was a risky move,

00:50:44 ◼   ► right? I mean, it's a fundamental design change in the iPhone, which is--

00:50:48 ◼   ► An expensive fundamental design change.

00:50:50 ◼   ► Exactly. So if you're kind of ballparking that and trying to figure it out what's going

00:50:54 ◼   ► to happen as an analyst, probably the safe bet is that it might not do quite as well

00:50:59 ◼   ► as it did in the past, especially once you start seeing these kind of reports. Maybe

00:51:03 ◼   ► that's where it's coming from.

00:51:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean it's not like they're fabricating what's coming out of the supply chain.

00:51:08 ◼   ► Part of it is that they have limited knowledge and they have, you know, the point of view

00:51:14 ◼   ► their information gives them.

00:51:15 ◼   ► And so, like I wouldn't want that job because it's very difficult, but that's like, that's

00:51:20 ◼   ► part of this deal.

00:51:21 ◼   ► Or like if you have just two lines, you don't have a full picture.

00:51:25 ◼   ► Now on the other side of it, Tim Cook and Luca, like they all have to tell the truth.

00:51:29 ◼   ► Like legally they have to tell the truth on these calls.

00:51:32 ◼   ► But if they don't talk about the HomePod, then maybe no one will ask about it.

00:51:37 ◼   ► I'm selective about it.

00:51:38 ◼   ► Now, the iPhone X selling more, they say that, I believe it.

00:51:41 ◼   ► Because again, legally, they have to tell the truth.

00:51:45 ◼   ► But there's always like that friction, right, between people who want a story to be one

00:51:49 ◼   ► way, and want it to be another way.

00:51:51 ◼   ► And it's always interesting to see that battle.

00:51:55 ◼   ► But yeah, great results again.

00:51:58 ◼   ► The only weird part in the results right now is Max.

00:52:02 ◼   ► I mean, I guess the assumption is that we'll just level off over time again, but it is weird that

00:52:08 ◼   ► For the last few quarters the max have been declining like that

00:52:12 ◼   ► It seems like where iPads are now going up max now going down these are not related

00:52:17 ◼   ► But it is you know, there's just been a shift where now the max are just declining ever so slightly

00:52:21 ◼   ► Of your year of a year at the moment. Yeah

00:52:25 ◼   ► I mean, I think a lot of that has to do with the state of the hardware

00:52:28 ◼   ► Yeah, you know that's definitely it right but it you know

00:52:31 ◼   ► It is it is interesting to see that it has been stable for so long and now there's some slight slippage in that

00:52:37 ◼   ► but yeah, I think if they I

00:52:39 ◼   ► Think if they work out the notebooks then I think that'll be yeah, that's what people want, right?

00:52:45 ◼   ► Yeah, I want new notebooks and if they can if they can work that out and then I'm sure it will level. Um

00:52:49 ◼   ► Yeah, like you said it's good quarter. I think I at least you know coming into it definitely

00:52:56 ◼   ► Thought or bought in that maybe this is the yeah, it's gonna be bad

00:52:59 ◼   ► It's like maybe this conversation is gonna go different on connected this week

00:53:02 ◼   ► But they're clearly doing well like part of me to like I always struggle with this because I just don't care that much about it

00:53:08 ◼   ► Like I'd much rather talk about do but in not I mean I find it very interesting

00:53:15 ◼   ► I want to talk about it this week. But after that like whatever. Yeah, I find the the units

00:53:19 ◼   ► the units is always what interests me like

00:53:21 ◼   ► What is selling? You know, what is not selling? Where are the changes because

00:53:26 ◼   ► because for me, all of this stuff, it shows trends

00:53:30 ◼   ► and those trends can either inform Apple's thinking

00:53:33 ◼   ► going forward or the trends are informed

00:53:35 ◼   ► by what they're doing.

00:53:37 ◼   ► And so when you look at the fact that there are less Macs

00:53:39 ◼   ► sold or more iPads sold, you're like, okay,

00:53:42 ◼   ► well we can see why because right now they are putting

00:53:44 ◼   ► more effort into the iPad hardware

00:53:46 ◼   ► than they are the Mac hardware.

00:53:47 ◼   ► - Imagine if they could do it over the phone.

00:53:48 ◼   ► - And it shows.

00:53:49 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's why I like the earnings stuff

00:53:52 ◼   ► because I like to see that what we're expecting will happen

00:53:56 ◼   ► comes out in what's actually being sold.

00:53:59 ◼   ► 'Cause so much time is spent going, like,

00:54:02 ◼   ► with our opinions on what people

00:54:05 ◼   ► in the real world are doing, right?

00:54:07 ◼   ► You know, like, oh, you know, the average person,

00:54:08 ◼   ► the average consumer, they're doing this, they're doing that.

00:54:10 ◼   ► And this is where you see that.

00:54:12 ◼   ► Because, you know, those iPads were not all sold

00:54:15 ◼   ► to tech nerds because there's too many sold.

00:54:18 ◼   ► So it's like, okay, so what's happening?

00:54:20 ◼   ► Why is it, that's why I find this stuff interesting.

00:54:21 ◼   ► - And finally finding a reason to upgrade or people--

00:54:24 ◼   ► - And like I know why people like they see the like,

00:54:26 ◼   ► oh, we're gonna talk about results

00:54:27 ◼   ► and they roll their eyes, think it's boring.

00:54:29 ◼   ► And I can see that. - A bunch of people

00:54:30 ◼   ► skip this chapter.

00:54:31 ◼   ► - But yeah, their eyes glaze over and I get it

00:54:32 ◼   ► because it's a lot of numbers

00:54:34 ◼   ► and it's a lot of like pie in the sky,

00:54:35 ◼   ► but I do find something interesting

00:54:38 ◼   ► in what the trans can tell us.

00:54:40 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Okay.

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00:57:22 ◼   ► - I have some breaking news.

00:57:24 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:57:25 ◼   ► - Do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Breaking news sound effect.

00:57:27 ◼   ► - When you said earlier that you were thinking

00:57:28 ◼   ► about a sound effect, was that your sound effect?

00:57:30 ◼   ► Is that what you just did? - That's what I was expecting.

00:57:32 ◼   ► No, but I'm just gonna leave it in.

00:57:34 ◼   ► There's a report by Barclays analyst,

00:57:38 ◼   ► - Blame Curtis.

00:57:40 ◼   ► This is, you guys sitting down?

00:57:42 ◼   ► I can see you, you're sitting down.

00:57:43 ◼   ► - We are.

00:57:44 ◼   ► - The 2018 iPhones may not include

00:57:47 ◼   ► the lightning to headphone adapter in the box.

00:57:49 ◼   ► - Get out of town. - Oh no.

00:57:50 ◼   ► - Get out of town.

00:57:52 ◼   ► - I don't know. - Does anybody care?

00:57:53 ◼   ► - Not really, I can't find mine in my house

00:57:55 ◼   ► when I look for it anyway.

00:57:55 ◼   ► I was coming on this trip and I was hunting around.

00:57:58 ◼   ► - Gotta keep one of those in your backpack.

00:57:59 ◼   ► It was funny traveling here with a few friends

00:58:02 ◼   ► and they both had their nice headphones

00:58:04 ◼   ► with this little white thing just dangling off the end.

00:58:06 ◼   ► - Right.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Just gonna glue that thing on man just glue it on or like put some tape around it those things should be permanent

00:58:12 ◼   ► But anyway, yeah, of course it won't you've got to stop it at some point like I you know like

00:58:17 ◼   ► It doesn't matter anymore. This is gonna sell in the Apple Store for nine bucks. Yeah, you know, they're gonna sell that forever

00:58:23 ◼   ► They still sell the FaceTime app in the Mac App Store Tim Cook can't stop selling anything

00:58:27 ◼   ► Except airports, I guess. Okay, they sell the FaceTime app. Yeah

00:58:32 ◼   ► It's still in the Mac App Store for like snow leopard users a super drive

00:58:36 ◼   ► I think that's the probably the oldest accessory available. Yeah, okay that came out in 2008

00:58:40 ◼   ► I own a super drive so do I I use it now and then I use it

00:58:44 ◼   ► Let's say every now and then one time I needed to burn a CD

00:58:47 ◼   ► Actually have to have one is our Mac mini is our entertainment system and like when you have kids sometimes you watch DVDs

00:58:53 ◼   ► And so we use it pretty often and then I have one in the office because then you got to burn CDs or

00:58:57 ◼   ► Make disk images of Mac OS 9 installers you guys do that. Yeah, let's do that. Okay

00:59:04 ◼   ► So we're gonna round out this week talking about

00:59:06 ◼   ► Mars a pan

00:59:09 ◼   ► Question mark. So this is an article everyone daring fireball where Gruber talks about

00:59:15 ◼   ► This rumored project again from German

00:59:19 ◼   ► this idea that Apple is going to have some sort of

00:59:22 ◼   ► Way to bridge the gap between app kit and UI kit for developers and the idea was and he says this which I think is

00:59:29 ◼   ► A really good point because I think I've been guilty of this that when a rumor is fuzzy

00:59:33 ◼   ► you can just attach your dreams to it. It's like, oh, you know, John, you write an iOS

00:59:37 ◼   ► app called Blink, which is awesome.

00:59:39 ◼   ► Right. Thank you.

00:59:40 ◼   ► I use it often, make affiliate links. And you could, with Marzipan, just magically hit

00:59:46 ◼   ► a button and you have a Mac app pooped out the other end, right? Like that's what people

00:59:49 ◼   ► have glommed onto this.

00:59:50 ◼   ► It's really that easy, yes.

00:59:51 ◼   ► It's just a button. So he talks about that. But he – John seems to think a couple of

00:59:57 ◼   ► things. One, that it is not its actual name. He seems to maybe know the name or maybe know

01:00:03 ◼   ► that marzipan was an old name or something and it's not what's being used.

01:00:05 ◼   ► But that's not important.

01:00:06 ◼   ► No, it's just interesting.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Right, but like no one, because it's not gonna, you know, Apple's not gonna stand on stage

01:00:11 ◼   ► and be like "Welcome marzipan!"

01:00:12 ◼   ► Like it's not, you know.

01:00:13 ◼   ► Sure, I just find those little details.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Sure.

01:00:16 ◼   ► But then he says that he believes that this is going to be what is called a declarative

01:00:21 ◼   ► control API.

01:00:23 ◼   ► And I don't know what that means.

01:00:25 ◼   ► And Jon, you're a developer.

01:00:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:00:27 ◼   ► Could you take a swing at it at least?

01:00:29 ◼   ► I'll take a swing at it.

01:00:30 ◼   ► And I think, unfortunately, this is just as fuzzy a concept in some ways as Marzipan was

01:00:35 ◼   ► when it was first rumored, because I think there's still a lot of people can interpret

01:00:39 ◼   ► for themselves exactly what that means and can still attach a lot of their own hopes

01:00:43 ◼   ► and dreams to it.

01:00:44 ◼   ► But I think what Jon was getting at is that it's a little bit like HTML, because that's

01:00:49 ◼   ► the example that he used.

01:00:51 ◼   ► And what it would allow people to do, allow the developers to, on a higher, more abstract

01:00:56 ◼   ► level, design the UIs for both Mac and iOS apps. So instead of having to learn two slightly

01:01:03 ◼   ► different ways to go about creating buttons and windows and radio boxes and all those

01:01:11 ◼   ► kind of things, tab controllers, you could just write them in kind of a simple language

01:01:17 ◼   ► like with HTML you just put tags and say here's a paragraph.

01:01:19 ◼   ► And then the browser renders it the way the browser knows how to render it.

01:01:23 ◼   ► Exactly, and that's how this would work.

01:01:24 ◼   ► So it would be a simplified, higher level, unified UI kind of thing.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Right, so you would say like, put a button here, and then it would use whatever the UI

01:01:36 ◼   ► kit would be on either, so it would show a button like how a button looks on iOS, or

01:01:40 ◼   ► a button like how a button looks like on the Mac.

01:01:42 ◼   ► Yeah, as opposed to saying, okay, I want this button at this coordinate with these dimensions

01:01:47 ◼   ► and this color and this title on it, all those kind of details.

01:01:52 ◼   ► You do that twice, right?

01:01:53 ◼   ► You do it once for iOS, once for the-- like, that's how you would do it now.

01:01:55 ◼   ► You would write both things independently.

01:01:57 ◼   ► Right.

01:01:58 ◼   ► But with this thing, you just say, like, I want a button here, and it will put a button

01:02:02 ◼   ► there.

01:02:03 ◼   ► I think so.

01:02:04 ◼   ► I think that's what he's getting at.

01:02:05 ◼   ► Okay.

01:02:06 ◼   ► But this is obviously very tricky.

01:02:07 ◼   ► It is.

01:02:09 ◼   ► And I think what he-- part of what I think Jon is getting at is that this is not going

01:02:14 ◼   ► to be-- this is going to be a staged thing.

01:02:17 ◼   ► I think you guys have talked about this before in Connected, that this is probably the first

01:02:20 ◼   ► step towards a longer term project of modernizing

01:02:24 ◼   ► the two platforms.

01:02:25 ◼   ► And this is a way, it seems, to make life easier for developers

01:02:30 ◼   ► to actually get the UI part.

01:02:31 ◼   ► Because it's already possible to use a lot of unified code

01:02:36 ◼   ► across different apps, whether it's iOS or Mac.

01:02:40 ◼   ► I was talking to James Thompson last night.

01:02:41 ◼   ► And a lot of PCALC's guts, the actual calculations,

01:02:45 ◼   ► that code is the same on iOS and the Mac.

01:02:48 ◼   ► But he has to jump through a lot of hoops in order to create the UI for the Mac versus iOS.

01:02:53 ◼   ► Those are both very different for him.

01:02:55 ◼   ► And that's where a lot of his work ends up being and making it take time.

01:02:59 ◼   ► That's why he doesn't come...

01:03:00 ◼   ► That's why those two things don't get updated at the same time because he works on one.

01:03:03 ◼   ► Right.

01:03:04 ◼   ► And then he moves the other one.

01:03:05 ◼   ► Well, that and an ARKit game. That's insane.

01:03:07 ◼   ► Yeah, there's that.

01:03:08 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I see the benefit in that, right?

01:03:11 ◼   ► that higher level gives them the ability to still play to app kits and UI kits, strengths

01:03:17 ◼   ► and other areas. And you can just learn this other thing that sort of rides on top of it.

01:03:22 ◼   ► But like all of this is what it is, like the implementation is whatever, but the most important

01:03:26 ◼   ► detail, I think the most interesting detail of John Gruber's article is that he says this

01:03:32 ◼   ► will not be WWDC 2018. Right. This is WWDC 2019. Yeah. For iOS, for Mac OS 10.15 and

01:03:40 ◼   ► and what he says in a footnote and I just love this style a redesigned iOS 13

01:03:46 ◼   ► yes you know the new user interface so yeah so that lends us to the question of

01:03:51 ◼   ► like what's it WDC this year cuz gonna be the Mac it's not gonna be the Mac Pro

01:03:55 ◼   ► it'll be the Mac Mini it's an hour of Mac updates so if we said let's say let's

01:04:01 ◼   ► take this was red now let's assume that that John Grubin knows what he's talking

01:04:04 ◼   ► about right I think he has a pretty good track record and because we he was

01:04:09 ◼   ► tweeting about this and we were talking about it and I was like and we I was I

01:04:13 ◼   ► said to you guys I won't take this as him really believing it until he writes

01:04:18 ◼   ► on our corner during fireball and then a couple of days later he did right so

01:04:21 ◼   ► like if he puts it on there like he believes it it's not just like talking

01:04:25 ◼   ► about things that he thinks are gonna happen on Twitter which is like a whole

01:04:28 ◼   ► different thing than just chatting with people but like him writing something on

01:04:31 ◼   ► his website it's like okay like he knows the impact that's gonna have when he

01:04:35 ◼   ► writes that like everyone's gonna take that as true so he's gonna be pretty

01:04:39 ◼   ► sure of his sources at this point. So all of the other rumors that we've seen, which

01:04:45 ◼   ► again we will just assume them to be true for the time being, suggest that iOS 12 is

01:04:55 ◼   ► going to be pretty chill. So we are all thinking, "Oh well it makes perfect sense that you would

01:04:59 ◼   ► debut Mazapan because iOS and MacOS are not going to get a lot this year, so what are

01:05:06 ◼   ► What are you gonna do then?

01:05:08 ◼   ► What's the developer story?

01:05:09 ◼   ► You get a snow leopard, you get a snow leopard, you get a snow leopard.

01:05:12 ◼   ► But like, that's fine.

01:05:14 ◼   ► I was expecting y'all to laugh at that.

01:05:16 ◼   ► Okay, sorry.

01:05:17 ◼   ► Laugh track!

01:05:18 ◼   ► But like, that's fine from a user perspective, right?

01:05:21 ◼   ► To be like, this is a maintenance release.

01:05:22 ◼   ► But it's not a thousand...

01:05:23 ◼   ► But what are you telling your developers?

01:05:25 ◼   ► I mean, I think there's still room for other things.

01:05:29 ◼   ► So if you don't have Marzipan and you don't have exciting new Mac professional hardware,

01:05:35 ◼   ► Even if iOS 12 and Mac OS 10.14 are smaller things, I think there's still room for improvements

01:05:42 ◼   ► to things like ARKit, which I just don't care about.

01:05:45 ◼   ► Like those AR, we didn't even talk about it, I just don't care.

01:05:49 ◼   ► I think there's room for some stuff on the iCloud cloud kit, cloud JS stuff that they've

01:05:56 ◼   ► started introducing.

01:05:57 ◼   ► It's been a while since we've heard anything new about that.

01:06:00 ◼   ► There could be stuff there.

01:06:02 ◼   ► I think one thing Apple could do easily,

01:06:05 ◼   ► I think they should do is speak some more to user privacy

01:06:10 ◼   ► and how to do things like,

01:06:13 ◼   ► Marco just did this with Overcast 4.2,

01:06:16 ◼   ► whatever the new version Overcast is,

01:06:18 ◼   ► about having basically token accounts

01:06:20 ◼   ► so you're not using your email address.

01:06:22 ◼   ► Apple could give developers more tools in those areas

01:06:26 ◼   ► that still counts as a, I'm not saying they're gonna do it.

01:06:27 ◼   ► Like I have no basis for this.

01:06:28 ◼   ► It's just been on my mind with GDPR and all this stuff

01:06:31 ◼   ► that maybe it's an opportunity for Apple to like standardize

01:06:34 ◼   ► some of that stuff for its developers.

01:06:36 ◼   ► Like if you want to go this way,

01:06:38 ◼   ► if you want to do more stuff,

01:06:40 ◼   ► like if a user's logged into iCloud

01:06:42 ◼   ► and we kind of handle all that for you,

01:06:43 ◼   ► like there's always room for that sort of stuff.

01:06:46 ◼   ► So I think there could still be a developer story.

01:06:47 ◼   ► There's gotta be,

01:06:48 ◼   ► 'cause that's what the D in WWDC stands for.

01:06:50 ◼   ► - Maybe, maybe, maybe a focus on Apple watch.

01:06:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's possible.

01:06:55 ◼   ► WatchOS could be some love.

01:06:56 ◼   ► - It could be what people want, right?

01:06:58 ◼   ► - Like what if?

01:06:59 ◼   ► kill watch kit, start.

01:07:01 ◼   ► - What if they introduce apps for the Apple TV?

01:07:04 ◼   ► That would be crazy.

01:07:05 ◼   ► - Can you imagine if there was an app store

01:07:07 ◼   ► that anybody cared about on an Apple TV?

01:07:09 ◼   ► That'd be amazing, right?

01:07:10 ◼   ► - Guys, I think the future of TV is apps.

01:07:12 ◼   ► - I think it is. - I feel confident.

01:07:13 ◼   ► I don't feel confident about that.

01:07:15 ◼   ► - I think it's important though to keep in mind

01:07:17 ◼   ► that when you go to WWDC, the keynote

01:07:20 ◼   ► and the developer story are very different, right?

01:07:22 ◼   ► I mean, the keynote is really for the whole world

01:07:24 ◼   ► and it's for consumers.

01:07:26 ◼   ► And what I think we'll see for developers this year

01:07:29 ◼   ► are those words we always see in the cloud that everybody always tries to

01:07:32 ◼   ► screenshot and see all the little things because those are the

01:07:34 ◼   ► quality of life type features that make life easier for developers.

01:07:38 ◼   ► That will still exist.

01:07:39 ◼   ► I'm still perplexed though about what the real story is going to be both for

01:07:43 ◼   ► end users as well as just kind of a big picture.

01:07:46 ◼   ► I think at this point Apple's responsibility to help developers make

01:07:50 ◼   ► their apps better.

01:07:52 ◼   ► So by announcing new features every year it gives developers something to sell to

01:07:56 ◼   ► their customers.

01:07:58 ◼   ► And if they don't have new features that can be taken advantage of by apps, then are they

01:08:03 ◼   ► Apple holding up their end of the bargain?

01:08:05 ◼   ► I mean, I don't think they're obligated to do that every year in big, sweeping ways.

01:08:09 ◼   ► I mean, if they did a BBC and it's, say if it's just Core OS stuff, right, like, photosyncing

01:08:15 ◼   ► does something, like it's, you know, consumer stuff, I don't know if that's necessarily

01:08:21 ◼   ► like the worst thing in the world from a developer's perspective.

01:08:23 ◼   ► My expectation level is now set to 2016.

01:08:28 ◼   ► low which was stickers oh yeah stickers and like that it was like the focus is

01:08:36 ◼   ► there's some iMessage stuff yeah like literally the iPad was literally not

01:08:40 ◼   ► mentioned and it was it was very understated are you expecting that he did

01:08:47 ◼   ► a dance on stage again designed Apple music again they probably will I mean

01:08:54 ◼   ► Was that that wasn't 16 wasn't it? I thought it was 16. I think that was 15

01:08:59 ◼   ► I think it was 15 and they've read it in 16 and everyone was calmer because they realized right right well

01:09:04 ◼   ► So they had bazomas no bazomas st. John is that yeah, it's our name

01:09:08 ◼   ► Yeah, they had her come on stage and do a much better job in 16. She's over now. Yeah

01:09:11 ◼   ► Crazy, okay, so yes, we'll see I think we can all agree. It'll be a quieter year, but we just have a few weeks left

01:09:18 ◼   ► I'm a few weeks. Yes

01:09:21 ◼   ► weeks at this point. I think that does it for this time. Jon, thank you for joining

01:09:26 ◼   ► us. Hey, thanks for having me, guys.

01:09:27 ◼   ► Jon, where can people find you on the internet? They can find me at maxstories.net and I do

01:09:31 ◼   ► a podcast with Federico called App Stories. If you don't listen to App Stories, it's very

01:09:35 ◼   ► good. So you guys just dive into the world of apps, the place where Max Stories lives.

01:09:40 ◼   ► Exactly. It's really good. I enjoy listening. If you want to find show notes this week,

01:09:45 ◼   ► You can head over to the website relay.fm/connected/191.

01:09:52 ◼   ► I got the number right this week.

01:09:54 ◼   ► Congratulations.

01:09:55 ◼   ► I'm really improving as a host.

01:09:56 ◼   ► You get in touch with us there as well.

01:09:58 ◼   ► There's an email link or you can find us on Twitter.

01:10:00 ◼   ► Myke is @imyke and Myke is the host of a bunch of great shows on relay.fm.

01:10:05 ◼   ► Go to the website if you like Connected.

01:10:07 ◼   ► I promise you'll find something else that you will enjoy.

01:10:11 ◼   ► You can find me on Twitter as ismh and I write 512pixels.net and until next time guys, say

01:10:20 ◼   ► goodbye.

01:10:21 ◼   ► You're first Jon.

01:10:22 ◼   ► Bye.

01:10:23 ◼   ► Cheerio.

01:10:24 ◼   ► Adios.