Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 204.

00:00:11 ◼   ► It is brought to you this week by our sponsors,

00:00:13 ◼   ► Squarespace, Linode, and Inboard Technology.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I am your host, Stephen Hackett, and I'm joined this week

00:00:20 ◼   ► by my co-host and co-founder, Myke Hurley.

00:00:23 ◼   ► My co-mic.

00:00:24 ◼   ► - Hi. - It's just us this week.

00:00:26 ◼   ► - Yes, I don't like co-mic.

00:00:29 ◼   ► that seems like you're part of a bigger mic system. Yeah, or that you have multiple mics.

00:00:35 ◼   ► You're a cog in the mic machine. One of the mics. Now you're the only mic.

00:00:40 ◼   ► We're only spilt with a Y. So we are doing some traveling in October together and I bought our

00:00:46 ◼   ► plane tickets, was it last week? And I'm keeping you up to date like, "Hey, this is where we're

00:00:50 ◼   ► flying and stuff." And I bought a ticket for you and I spelled your name M-Y-K-E, which is not

00:00:57 ◼   ► your given name that your mother gave you when you were born. You have altered it. Do you want

00:01:02 ◼   ► to tell people how much money it cost you to fix that mistake you made? No, basically free. I just

00:01:07 ◼   ► had to make a phone call to the airline and I lost many minutes off my life. I don't know, I saw a

00:01:14 ◼   ► second email that seemed to indicate that there was a fee. There may have been a fee, it's fine.

00:01:18 ◼   ► I think there was. But it didn't cost me, it cost us collectively. Right, yes. Your mistake cost me

00:01:24 ◼   ► Well, you changed your name. Something that doesn't make any sense. Okay.

00:01:29 ◼   ► But I...

00:01:29 ◼   ► Okay. We're gonna do follow-up now. Enough, enough mic time.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Co-mic time. "Iowas 12 Beta 5 mic. It includes artwork of a thin-bezzled, no-notch iPad Pro."

00:01:44 ◼   ► Are you excited about this?

00:01:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:45 ◼   ► Do you have feelings?

00:01:46 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, look. This... And we got some stuff later on today, more like iPhone and iPad

00:01:54 ◼   ► rumor stuff but we put this one in there because it's it does relate to last week

00:01:59 ◼   ► and it's probably the least tantalizing of all of it um but what these things do is they just give

00:02:05 ◼   ► you the reassurance right it's like yep it's definitely happening because this is what happened

00:02:10 ◼   ► last time they there was some glyphs somewhere inside of ios which very clearly indicated

00:02:17 ◼   ► what the iPhone 10 was going to be and now if they're in iOS 12 and they're appearing

00:02:24 ◼   ► this late in the beta cycle only seems to add fuel to the fire of new iPads in September.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Totally, you know if you go into this article we'll talk about a more face ID, a bunch of fun

00:02:34 ◼   ► stuff but yeah it's just like a sign of life right like something is happening it's you know it's a

00:02:40 ◼   ► little glyph it's not as fleshed out as say the touch bar was which we had like an embedded video

00:02:46 ◼   ► file in Mac OS, not as fleshed out as what the HomePod leak showed about the iPhone X,

00:02:51 ◼   ► but it is happening now.

00:02:53 ◼   ► We are close enough now.

00:02:54 ◼   ► We're what, we're like potentially like five weeks away from a September keynote?

00:03:00 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I had this realization a couple of days ago.

00:03:03 ◼   ► It's here, it's almost here.

00:03:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm very surprised to have realized this, that we're so close to the iPhone.

00:03:14 ◼   ► are the types of leaks that I like because they don't really tell you anything, right?

00:03:18 ◼   ► These are the ideal leaks for me where it's like you can see it's coming but you can still like,

00:03:26 ◼   ► "Oh, what's it gonna be? What does this mean?" These are my favorites. Probably my least favorite

00:03:32 ◼   ► leaks are when it's just everything, right? Because it's only exciting for the moment you read it

00:03:40 ◼   ► and then the excitement goes away because you now have all the information. But stuff like this,

00:03:45 ◼   ► you're kind of still a little bit like, "Ooh, what could it actually mean?" These are my favorites.

00:03:51 ◼   ► These are my favorite types of things. Yeah, I'm right there with it. There's always

00:03:56 ◼   ► the excitement when you see someone on Twitter or a nine-to-five or something have a

00:04:03 ◼   ► leak and they walk you through it. But you're right. Then it's time for the keynote. We've

00:04:08 ◼   ► we've talked about this for years, in time for the keynote,

00:04:11 ◼   ► that it's like, oh, I kind of see all this coming. Sometimes

00:04:13 ◼   ► Apple jokes about that, like, Oh, stop us if you've seen this,

00:04:16 ◼   ► you know, like, feel sure like chucking and jiving. But it's,

00:04:20 ◼   ► um, I agree with you, I like, I like this level of leak. And I'm

00:04:25 ◼   ► sure we're gonna see more because how this happens.

00:04:27 ◼   ► Because it's enough for us to like, talk about and like,

00:04:30 ◼   ► really, sort of let our imaginations run wild, we can

00:04:33 ◼   ► sort of guess what they're going to do. And that's fun to talk

00:04:36 ◼   ► about like on the shows and just kind of you know with nerds and it it also

00:04:41 ◼   ► expands the the time that we get to talk about new stuff right like if it's if

00:04:46 ◼   ► it's completely secret it's like well you can make guesses but this is a fun

00:04:50 ◼   ► middle ground I'm sure that we will see more effect we already have seen more

00:04:54 ◼   ► we're gonna talk about that in a little while but I agree with you this is like

00:04:57 ◼   ► a nice sort of yeah there's some stuff going on and you know it's a 32 by 32

00:05:04 ◼   ► icon so you know throw you can kind of apply your wishes to the to the leak and like apply

00:05:10 ◼   ► your desires to it and they can't tell you that you're wrong yet which is fun.

00:05:15 ◼   ► So you it was quite funny for me a couple of days ago when I got a notification for

00:05:21 ◼   ► an episode of app stories because I have like to have notifications on for overcast because

00:05:25 ◼   ► they don't I don't know what this type of notification is but like it doesn't light

00:05:30 ◼   ► up my and it never was like made a sound or anything like they're just a

00:05:34 ◼   ► notifications are there I don't know what like type of notification this is

00:05:37 ◼   ► that Marco's doing but whatever and because I like to be able to just

00:05:41 ◼   ► triage the shows that I want to listen to because I subscribe to lots and lots

00:05:44 ◼   ► and lots of feeds including the relay FM master feed as

00:05:47 ◼   ► well as all of the individual shows I don't even do that so I never I never

00:05:52 ◼   ► want to see what the master I never listen to anything from the master feed

00:05:56 ◼   ► right I listen to the individual so I get everything twice right so

00:05:59 ◼   ► including all my own shows, so I have to delete lots of podcasts, right? Because every show that

00:06:05 ◼   ► I'm on, I get two entries in Overcast for it. But I don't need to listen to them because I was there

00:06:11 ◼   ► at the time. So I got a notification for App Stories episode 73, "Show me your Mac menu bar

00:06:18 ◼   ► apps." And I was like, hang on a second. I was like, "No offense, I love App Stories, but one,

00:06:26 ◼   ► I don't want to listen to that episode because I don't care about Mac menu bar apps."

00:06:30 ◼   ► And then when I had that realization, I thought to myself, "Federico definitely doesn't care

00:06:35 ◼   ► about Mac menu bar apps." And then I realized, "Oh, Steven was on it because Federico's equipment

00:06:43 ◼   ► exploded." Yeah. Like I told John, I think it made it in the show, anytime I can hijack one of

00:06:50 ◼   ► Fedorico's media properties and talk about the Mac, I will do it. So, John's like, "Oh,

00:06:56 ◼   ► I need somebody to record." He's like, "Yes, I can do it right now. Let's go. Whatever time you need

00:07:01 ◼   ► me there, as long as we can talk about Mac mini bar apps." That episode may not be for you,

00:07:06 ◼   ► and that's fine, but I had a really nice time talking with John about it, and I think it came

00:07:10 ◼   ► out really nicely. It's a great show. If you don't listen to App Stories, you need to add it

00:07:13 ◼   ► to your rotation. It's fun. Yeah, it's very good. I like App Stories a lot. That one just wasn't for

00:07:20 ◼   ► me no offense guys but like I mean I barely care about Mac apps Mac menu bar

00:07:27 ◼   ► apps that's you know that's that's not for me I'm sorry I love you all but I

00:07:34 ◼   ► just can't yeah well you know I don't know if Federico's discovered it yet

00:07:38 ◼   ► because he's sort of in and out so we'll see he hasn't texted me anything angry

00:07:42 ◼   ► yet but there was a funny thing with this so I was listening to I just

00:07:48 ◼   ► start listening to the last episode of, well I think maybe two episodes ago of

00:07:52 ◼   ► Canvas, where it's Jason and Federico talking about shortcuts. Yeah it's a

00:07:57 ◼   ► couple of weeks old. I'm still catching up right on my post honeymoon podcasts

00:08:02 ◼   ► and they just begin the episode talking about the fact that you shouldn't be on

00:08:07 ◼   ► it. Yeah I was supposed to be and like Federico talking about ideas and I was like

00:08:10 ◼   ► wait a second like just do a show with Jason. Way better. Yeah and it was really

00:08:15 ◼   ► Really good. We'll have a link to that too. I learned a lot listening to Federico talk

00:08:21 ◼   ► about that stuff with Jason. It was good.

00:08:24 ◼   ► All right. So we are in August and August is a very special time for us here at Relay

00:08:29 ◼   ► FM because we celebrate our birthday or anniversary. And I have a question for you because I don't

00:08:36 ◼   ► know how old our company is and I need you to help me because I cannot work it out.

00:08:40 ◼   ► Four years old.

00:08:42 ◼   ► years old so are we celebrating our fourth birthday? Yes. Yeah. See because this is what

00:08:48 ◼   ► I struggle with it's like anniversary and birthday. Well no it's the same thing. You don't celebrate

00:08:53 ◼   ► zero so you don't you know you just got married like three days ago that wasn't your zero

00:09:00 ◼   ► anniversary so it's next summer will be your one year anniversary same with your birthday

00:09:06 ◼   ► you don't celebrate. Yes because I knew I know that we started the company in 2014 and I know

00:09:11 ◼   ► it's 2018 now, but I keep getting myself confused and like do we say the comp... so the company is

00:09:17 ◼   ► about to be four, right? Next Saturday we are four on the 18th. All right, great. Well and to confuse

00:09:25 ◼   ► it more, the company is older than the network because we didn't launch immediately so we celebrate

00:09:30 ◼   ► it. We celebrate it the day that we launch the network. Yeah, because there wasn't really a specific day

00:09:37 ◼   ► that it started. Yeah, it's whenever the state of Tennessee said, "Yes, you're a business!"

00:09:41 ◼   ► Congratulations! No, I don't think that counts. It legally counts. Tennessee don't rule me, man.

00:09:47 ◼   ► It does. I'm my own man. Well, no it doesn't. It thinks it does. You can't get me. Tennessee

00:09:51 ◼   ► can't get me. I mean, I paid state taxes this week, so they do. Yeah, but that's you. Anyways,

00:09:56 ◼   ► what are we talking about? I'm over here. It is our fourth anniversary. It's our fourth anniversary

00:10:01 ◼   ► fourth birthday and so a bunch of fun stuff happens in August. The biggest thing is our

00:10:09 ◼   ► special bonus episodes for our Relay FM members. We will talk about that more beginning next week.

00:10:16 ◼   ► But one of the things that me and you always do is an annual Q&A. Now we realized that our Q&A

00:10:23 ◼   ► I think has been in different places almost every single year since it started. And this year's Q&A

00:10:30 ◼   ► will be next week's episode of Connected. So if you would like to ask us a cue that we can A on

00:10:37 ◼   ► that episode send in your questions over twitter please use the hashtag relayqa so r-e-l-a-y-q-a

00:10:46 ◼   ► and we will answer as many of them as we can on next week's episode of Connected and it's always

00:10:54 ◼   ► good I really enjoy them it gives us time to look over things we can talk about things if you have

00:10:59 ◼   ► have burning questions you want us to ask, you want us to know what we think about the

00:11:03 ◼   ► industry, all of that stuff, #RelayQA and me and Federico, no, no, me and Stephen will

00:11:08 ◼   ► be doing that next week. What I was trying to say and my brain jumped ahead is Federico

00:11:13 ◼   ► is back the week after, so he's on vacation right now. So last week his equipment exploded.

00:11:19 ◼   ► Now he's on vacation because it's going to be his 30th birthday. On Friday the 10th Federico

00:11:27 ◼   ► turns 30 years old, so please do your best to congratulate him on that achievement.

00:11:31 ◼   ► He's gonna freak out.

00:11:33 ◼   ► He's gonna, you know, it's gonna be, it's a big day.

00:11:36 ◼   ► I mean, I remember, I turned 30 many decades ago.

00:11:39 ◼   ► About 15 years ago, I think it was.

00:11:42 ◼   ► So Federico turns 30, so everyone needs to congratulate him on Friday the 10th.

00:11:48 ◼   ► Wait, does that mean he was 25 and we started podcasting together?

00:11:54 ◼   ► You know that me and Federico are the same age, right?

00:11:56 ◼   ► But I don't like to think about it

00:11:58 ◼   ► Okay, cool. I just wanted you to just to know that that we are the same age

00:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah, but his birthday is in August and mine is in January

00:12:04 ◼   ► So anyways, yes send us your questions. It's always fun to

00:12:09 ◼   ► To sit down and sort through them and talk about stuff. So

00:12:13 ◼   ► That'll be next week. Yep

00:12:15 ◼   ► Look forward to that. All right, should we take our first break? Let's do it

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00:13:56 ◼   ► So what have we got going on with rumors today?

00:13:59 ◼   ► So I want to talk some about the iPhone.

00:14:01 ◼   ► Like we said, we're, you know, a month or six weeks or something away from seeing the new phones from Apple.

00:14:08 ◼   ► And about this time last year, some dummy models came out.

00:14:14 ◼   ► And so these are like mock-ups of what people think they'll be based on all the leaks.

00:14:18 ◼   ► And some YouTubers got a hold of them. We'll have a link to MKBHD's video.

00:14:23 ◼   ► I saw Jonathan Morrison had them as well.

00:14:26 ◼   ► Kind of a representation of what the phones would be like.

00:14:29 ◼   ► They're not working phones, right? But they are sort of the enclosures.

00:14:32 ◼   ► It's all kind of put together nicely.

00:14:34 ◼   ► It seems like these are built by case manufacturers, right?

00:14:39 ◼   ► Based upon leaks from the supply chain.

00:14:42 ◼   ► That's where it seems like these are coming from.

00:14:44 ◼   ► I think so, yeah.

00:14:46 ◼   ► Which is super interesting.

00:14:48 ◼   ► And previous years that this is going, you had these last year,

00:14:51 ◼   ► at least just last year.

00:14:54 ◼   ► This stuff tends to be pretty on the money because

00:14:57 ◼   ► it is an incredible advantage for a case maker to have this right.

00:15:02 ◼   ► So they seem to be able to pay probably very large

00:15:06 ◼   ► sums of money to people that are currently making these phones or know about them.

00:15:12 ◼   ► so they can build prototypes and build their cases around them.

00:15:17 ◼   ► My personal feeling is what we're seeing in these videos is basically completely what

00:15:22 ◼   ► we're going to see in September.

00:15:25 ◼   ► I think so.

00:15:26 ◼   ► These case manufacturers have a lot of incentive to get this right because if they can have

00:15:30 ◼   ► cases ready to go three days before their competition, then that's potentially more

00:15:37 ◼   ► sales for them.

00:15:39 ◼   ► in a year where you have, and we're going to get into this, new sizes, right? So it's

00:15:43 ◼   ► a little bit different when the iPhone 5 and 5s are basically the same. But in years where

00:15:50 ◼   ► we have model changes and we can get into what that entails and how this year may even

00:15:56 ◼   ► be different from last year, it's important if you're a case maker to get ahead of this

00:16:00 ◼   ► stuff. So it makes sense. I'm sure this is like the tip of the iceberg when it comes

00:16:05 ◼   ► this industry which I find I find really interesting like who knows with how this

00:16:10 ◼   ► stuff comes out and and all sorts of like I'm sure sort of shady things are

00:16:15 ◼   ► are going on behind the scenes and alleyways just like the worst right like

00:16:21 ◼   ► it's just going to be the worst stuff these mock-ups fall in line with what

00:16:26 ◼   ► we've heard and what we've seen before three new iPhones this year an updated

00:16:33 ◼   ► iPhone X, a iPhone X Plus, and of course we don't know the names, you know, iPhone X2

00:16:42 ◼   ► and iPhone X Plus with a, assuming like iPhone 9 cheaper iPhone in between the two, size

00:16:52 ◼   ► wise.

00:16:53 ◼   ► And I find this lineup incredibly interesting because it's really different than what we've

00:16:59 ◼   ► seen from Apple in the past where we've had, you know, until the 10 you had the regular

00:17:05 ◼   ► size phone and the plus phone for a little bit more spec wise, they were basically the

00:17:09 ◼   ► same the plus, you know, eventually got nicer cameras and stuff, but more or less the same

00:17:15 ◼   ► phone.

00:17:16 ◼   ► And now you have that being split by this phone in the middle.

00:17:20 ◼   ► That is potentially, potentially drastically different.

00:17:25 ◼   ► But I'm curious what you think about that.

00:17:28 ◼   ► Is it a mistake for the current iPhone X to be the smallest sized iPhone from here on

00:17:34 ◼   ► now?

00:17:35 ◼   ► Do you think this is weird that all the phones are getting bigger from where we are now?

00:17:40 ◼   ► This was interesting because we knew this, but there was something about seeing it that

00:17:45 ◼   ► made it more apparent.

00:17:47 ◼   ► All of the rumors have said that there was going to be, like the iPhone 9 we'll call

00:17:52 ◼   ► it, was going to be the 6.1 inch LCD screen.

00:17:55 ◼   ► screen. I was like, well, obviously that's bigger than the 10, but we didn't really think about it, right?

00:18:00 ◼   ► Like I think it just kind of was just until you see it. You kind of realize that oh wait, it's hard to visualize

00:18:05 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like well now this is what you get. So my expectation will be that they'll probably still sell something, right?

00:18:11 ◼   ► You could probably still get like an 8 maybe right? Yeah, I mean it'll go down

00:18:16 ◼   ► It'll go down the wrong one, but I don't see a new phone at that size

00:18:20 ◼   ► Yeah, and the 10 will probably get

00:18:24 ◼   ► Or whatever that's gonna be is gonna be a little bit cheaper, right? There's probably gonna be a

00:18:28 ◼   ► Shuffle down there at least. Yeah, I don't know like does the 10 as we know it now

00:18:33 ◼   ► Stick around or does it drop to your point drop down in price or I think the 10 is gonna stick around button

00:18:41 ◼   ► Practically nobody else agrees with me, which is fine. Yeah, I don't know like just fine

00:18:45 ◼   ► We're an uncharted territory now, right this started with the with the iPhone 8

00:18:53 ◼   ► being not the 7s and being different in some pretty radical ways and now we have

00:19:00 ◼   ► In my mind like the old playbook like we can't guarantee anything is going to happen the way it used to and so

00:19:06 ◼   ► Yeah, who knows what'll stick around? You know, maybe this iPhone 10 is

00:19:10 ◼   ► The same we have now and there's not actually a new 10 size phone

00:19:14 ◼   ► It's just the 9 and the 10 plus who know like I think anything is possible

00:19:17 ◼   ► But there's a shot in the MKBHD video where he has all three sizes

00:19:23 ◼   ► Stacked in his hand. It is a real smooth gradient and size from like the 10

00:19:27 ◼   ► We'll call it the 9 and then the 10 plus like it is right in the middle. I don't know

00:19:33 ◼   ► I just I just don't know and this is not me like like trying to talk someone into the iPhone SE

00:19:40 ◼   ► But like the iPhone, you know 8 is a really nice size and if you thin bezeled that design

00:19:47 ◼   ► I think a lot of people be happy with that

00:19:49 ◼   ► but I just don't know if everything getting bigger if the 10 now being the

00:19:54 ◼   ► smallest phone is is gonna make everybody happy or not so let me just

00:20:00 ◼   ► say because I'm totally following you here but the 10 it's not that much

00:20:06 ◼   ► bigger than the 8 right so you're looking at 0.2 inches in height and like

00:20:17 ◼   ► point ten inches in width so you're looking at three millimeters thicker

00:20:22 ◼   ► like in width so I should say three millimeters wider and like five

00:20:26 ◼   ► millimeters higher okay so they're closer than I haven't held haven't held

00:20:30 ◼   ► a phone that size in a long time because my wife has an SE it's the screen the

00:20:34 ◼   ► screen being bigger makes you think your phones bigger but an iPhone 8 is 138

00:20:38 ◼   ► millimeters 138 point four millimeters tall and an iPhone 10 is 143 point six

00:20:44 ◼   ► and an iPhone 8 is 67 millimeters wide and the iPhone 10 is 70 millimeters wide

00:20:51 ◼   ► so it's not really that much bigger at all right?

00:20:56 ◼   ► okay that makes me feel better then

00:20:58 ◼   ► yeah but I think the screen being bigger makes you feel like it's bigger and it's more expensive

00:21:03 ◼   ► so my kind of feeling on like it makes sense to me that if they're only gonna make one

00:21:09 ◼   ► that it sits in the middle of those two in size

00:21:12 ◼   ► Yeah, okay. I think you've talked me into it. Just because I don't have a phone of that.

00:21:17 ◼   ► I've actually, you know, except the iPhone 6, which I end up moving to the 6 Plus, I've

00:21:22 ◼   ► had Plus phones until this. And I think without that other size phone in my household, I sort

00:21:28 ◼   ► of lost track of where things are. So yeah, so I think, okay, so that works. The iPhone

00:21:33 ◼   ► 10...

00:21:34 ◼   ► The problem might be the price though, right? Because it's, you know, if some people were

00:21:38 ◼   ► buying the 8 for price reasons...

00:21:40 ◼   ► I think people definitely were.

00:21:42 ◼   ► they're going to be in trouble because the 10 if it gets any cheaper or whatever is you know, maybe

00:21:46 ◼   ► it's the 10 maybe the 10s whatever, it's not going to be that much cheaper, the cheaper one will be

00:21:51 ◼   ► the nine, which will be bigger. Yes. So that's going to be bigger still, you know, and these

00:21:58 ◼   ► rumors are kind of kind of all over the place about what the what Apple could do to the nine to

00:22:03 ◼   ► keep that price down. And so that the model show just has a single camera as opposed to the dual

00:22:08 ◼   ► camera module on the X. Lots of rumors have said it's going to be an LCD display.

00:22:13 ◼   ► And in his video, MKBHD says that the mock-up is a little bit thicker, and that would make sense

00:22:21 ◼   ► with the LCD because you have to have a backlight. The bezels you mean, right?

00:22:24 ◼   ► The bezels are thicker. He said the phone itself is also a little bit thicker than the X.

00:22:28 ◼   ► Oh, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Which you would need for the LCD. The bezels are a touch

00:22:32 ◼   ► thicker. Again, you need that for the LCD because you've got to have backlight and stuff around the

00:22:36 ◼   ► the edges were an OLED you can you know Apple's actually folding the OLED over

00:22:39 ◼   ► into the into the bottom which is interesting so the screen and the camera

00:22:44 ◼   ► two obvious places right to to cut expense and you can make the phone

00:22:49 ◼   ► cheaper and honestly like Apple's else like the OLED is really good I don't

00:22:53 ◼   ► think I'd want to go back to an LCD phone but people coming from you know an

00:22:59 ◼   ► iPhone 6s or an iPhone 7 looking at the 9 it's going to be a better LCD than

00:23:05 ◼   ► they have. So I think that's totally fine to still have an LCD phone, like at the top,

00:23:10 ◼   ► you know, as a new phone, right? I don't think they have to go all OLED yet. In a couple

00:23:14 ◼   ► years, I think that they may need to, but for now, like the LCD makes sense to me. I'm

00:23:19 ◼   ► not bummed they're doing it. I think it's a logical choice for this device, looking

00:23:24 ◼   ► at the people who will probably buy it. I don't think many people are going from the

00:23:28 ◼   ► iPhone 10 this year to the iPhone nine next year. I just don't see that really happening.

00:23:35 ◼   ► You know, I just stumbled upon something in my brain.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Oh, I think that that device will be called the iPhone 9 because it will look

00:23:45 ◼   ► like a bridge between the 8 to the 10, which was kind of the point, right?

00:23:50 ◼   ► They were saying that the iPhone 10 was the future's phone, right?

00:23:52 ◼   ► Like it was multiple years ahead.

00:23:54 ◼   ► And then if you looked back in history, you would see 8.

00:23:57 ◼   ► And then from the 8, you go to the 9 because it changed design,

00:24:00 ◼   ► but still had an LCD and all that and a single camera.

00:24:03 ◼   ► and then you go from the 9 to the 10 and then the 10 got two cameras and it got an OLED

00:24:07 ◼   ► screen and all that kind of stuff.

00:24:09 ◼   ► So that seems interesting to me.

00:24:12 ◼   ► Like I reckon it, I do now, I've talked myself into believing that it would definitely be

00:24:16 ◼   ► called the iPhone 9 and then I don't know what they're going to do with the other names,

00:24:20 ◼   ► but that's my thinking.

00:24:22 ◼   ► Apparently if there are going to be lots of bright colors, which was a rumor from previous,

00:24:28 ◼   ► this is where we're going to see them.

00:24:29 ◼   ► So it will be in this device.

00:24:31 ◼   ► Now I don't know what that does to this device because I feel like it is probably a bad idea

00:24:37 ◼   ► to do this.

00:24:38 ◼   ► I don't think they should do the colours in just this one device because it seems counter

00:24:44 ◼   ► intuitive to making the phone look this way.

00:24:47 ◼   ► You take all these steps to make the iPhone 9 look like an iPhone 10 but be cheaper so

00:24:51 ◼   ► then it looks like you've got a cool new phone but it's cheaper for you to get it, right?

00:24:58 ◼   ► But then if you make that one the only one that has red, blue, and orange, for example,

00:25:03 ◼   ► if you bought the red, blue, and orange, you're going to be signaling the fact that you have

00:25:07 ◼   ► the cheaper phone.

00:25:09 ◼   ► And isn't that counterintuitive to the point of doing it?

00:25:11 ◼   ► Well, it's the problem of the iPhone 5C where...

00:25:16 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:25:17 ◼   ► You know, the iPhone...

00:25:19 ◼   ► My argument assumes that the 9 and the 10S have basically the same internal specs, same

00:25:25 ◼   ► CPU.

00:25:26 ◼   ► iPhone 5 and 5s and 5c were a little bit different in that regard. The iPhone 5c was really an

00:25:31 ◼   ► iPhone 5 with a new case. It didn't have the new processor. I think the 9 will have all

00:25:36 ◼   ► of the 10 specs, including first gen face ID. Right, that's what I'm saying. So I think

00:25:40 ◼   ► that's a little bit different than in the past. But what the iPhone 5c signaled to people

00:25:44 ◼   ► is that you bought the cheap one. It was plastic and not aluminum. And some people bought it

00:25:48 ◼   ► because they liked the colors, but we know the 5c didn't seem to sell as well as Apple

00:25:54 ◼   ► Maybe thought it would, it was gone pretty quickly.

00:25:57 ◼   ► They haven't gone back to that sort of decision

00:26:00 ◼   ► in their product line since.

00:26:02 ◼   ► So maybe this is revisiting that.

00:26:04 ◼   ► I honestly would like to see colors in all three models.

00:26:09 ◼   ► - Well, so would I, yes.

00:26:11 ◼   ► That would be preferable, right?

00:26:12 ◼   ► Like I would really like that.

00:26:13 ◼   ► I mean, it's very possible that if they do a gold 10 plus,

00:26:17 ◼   ► then I like go gold anyway.

00:26:18 ◼   ► But like I would like actual color, like real color.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Like it would be a bummer to me

00:26:24 ◼   ► if there was a blue and an orange iPhone 9 available, but not an iPhone 10 or an iPhone

00:26:29 ◼   ► 10 Plus. I would be annoyed about that. But I do think that it's weird. If part of the

00:26:34 ◼   ► reason that they did this is because they wanted to make all these phones look the same

00:26:38 ◼   ► for a status symbol perspective, which is one of the reasons you would do it, not the

00:26:41 ◼   ► only but one of, singling it out by giving it the color, I don't think adds to that status

00:26:50 ◼   ► symbol thing.

00:26:51 ◼   ► doesn't it doesn't it does. It's the same. I think one of the downfalls of the five c

00:26:56 ◼   ► it's repeating that mistake because I think people look at the five c and the five s.

00:27:00 ◼   ► If you saw five c you knew that someone bought the cheap one. It was really the five c really

00:27:05 ◼   ► jumped out at you because it was so bright. And this obviously Apple has done a blue iPhone

00:27:10 ◼   ► since and so this would I think they would repeat that that I think what you're saying

00:27:14 ◼   ► is a repeat of the five c mistake. So we'll see where that goes. I mean, I said I want

00:27:19 ◼   ► colors everywhere. I don't know if I'd buy an orange or a blue phone but I like

00:27:22 ◼   ► the option and I think people, we talk about this a lot, people like options. I mean

00:27:27 ◼   ► look at the Apple Watch, it's the reason they change the band so often and the

00:27:30 ◼   ► case colors. Like people like personalizing their technology based on the

00:27:34 ◼   ► color. This is why there's so many cases in the Apple Store. You walk in, Apple

00:27:38 ◼   ► makes their leather and silicon cases in like 15 different colors because people

00:27:42 ◼   ► you know, you know they highly like this yellow one. I'll put the yellow one on my

00:27:45 ◼   ► and now my phone is yellow because most people have cases and

00:27:49 ◼   ► Bringing that to the phone itself is something they haven't done much except that one that one year. There's also the idea of

00:27:56 ◼   ► A face ID so there's a lot of we're going to into the iPad, but there's a lot of evidence building that the iPad

00:28:04 ◼   ► face ID system will be

00:28:07 ◼   ► Rotation agnostic so right now if I am I need to be oriented the same way my iPhone 10 is

00:28:14 ◼   ► For it to unlock I discovered this when I was doing my iPhone 10 like review like unboxing videos where add the iPhone and a tripod

00:28:21 ◼   ► Mount talking to it. The iPhone was in landscape and I'm standing up it wouldn't unlock with my face

00:28:27 ◼   ► I had to like turn the phone so it lined up with me and

00:28:29 ◼   ► That doesn't really work on the iPad a device that is very often in landscape

00:28:35 ◼   ► It can also be used it can be used any way, right?

00:28:36 ◼   ► There's no right way or wrong way to hold an iPad really and there's evidence that face ID and the iPad will

00:28:42 ◼   ► overcome this that it can it doesn't matter where you are in orientation to the iPad and

00:28:50 ◼   ► maybe that could be coming to the new phones and so maybe that's another way to

00:28:54 ◼   ► keep the cost down on the nine is to have like face ID generation one if you will and then gen

00:29:00 ◼   ► two face ID coming to the the 10s and the 10 plus being a little more flexible and and where you are

00:29:08 ◼   ► in space to the phone. Yeah I do wonder if it's hardware or software was the limit for it,

00:29:15 ◼   ► but nevertheless I think they will say these new phones have it and like the old phone won't have

00:29:21 ◼   ► it. Yeah even if it's the same hardware they could say well it's a software difference.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Yeah and then it's just like oh well it's just in these phones right or there might be some kind it

00:29:30 ◼   ► might need additional processing power that a new chip will offer we don't know. Yeah but you know

00:29:35 ◼   ► I guess it's, I think we can actually see in the XS, say, the X Plus will get the new

00:29:44 ◼   ► chip which will probably be the same chip that's in the new iPads.

00:29:49 ◼   ► Like what is it, A12, A12X, something like that.

00:29:53 ◼   ► Which is going to be what, 7nm I think is the rumor which is, you know, could be very

00:29:57 ◼   ► interesting like could make some big jumps so we'll see that.

00:30:01 ◼   ► But let's talk about the phone that everyone really cares the most about which is an iPhone

00:30:04 ◼   ► plus 6.5 inch display that is that's a big boy so like that's gonna be pretty

00:30:14 ◼   ► intense because I so here's the thing right so this will actually be smaller

00:30:20 ◼   ► than the 8 plus it's physically smaller but the screens bigger so I think the

00:30:26 ◼   ► one-handedness will be worse because you have more of the you have more space to

00:30:31 ◼   ► cover than you did with because you never really you never touched the top

00:30:35 ◼   ► of the bus phone right there's nothing up like the forehead like yep so it's

00:30:39 ◼   ► gonna be super interesting to see how that is how that comes to light but

00:30:44 ◼   ► without seeing it I don't need to see it to no one buying it right it's what I

00:30:48 ◼   ► want I want a bigger screen so the screen like is insanely large right so

00:30:54 ◼   ► MKBHD in his video he puts the 10+ model next to an 8+ and then kind of

00:31:00 ◼   ► over laser screen on top of the, you know, like in digitally overlays the screen.

00:31:04 ◼   ► And you see that size difference. My word.

00:31:07 ◼   ► Which is it's just wild.

00:31:11 ◼   ► But the physical size difference between the 10 and the 10 plus is one diagonal inch.

00:31:16 ◼   ► It's not that much like you when you when you put the two phones together,

00:31:21 ◼   ► the size difference is way smaller than it was between the regular phone

00:31:25 ◼   ► the plus one like in previous years which i think is very exciting uh i am i cannot wait i cannot

00:31:34 ◼   ► wait for that because that six and a half inch screen that's wild that's nearly ipad mini it's

00:31:40 ◼   ► nearly an ipad mini i remember that product oh i'm so excited this it remains an important product

00:31:46 ◼   ► in the line i don't even think it got important i think it just it still exists i think anything

00:31:52 ◼   ► They've never they don't say anything about that. I too am tempted by this. I

00:31:55 ◼   ► like the iPhone 10 size. And I can operate it more or less with one hand if I sort of jostle it around.

00:32:04 ◼   ► But having that bigger screen, but especially the bigger battery is is always a an upside to the

00:32:11 ◼   ► plus funds. One reason I switched to the plus so many years ago. And yeah, I think I would

00:32:15 ◼   ► definitely be interested in it. I don't I think I could order without seeing it. But I think if

00:32:21 ◼   ► you're on the fence about it just like before. Oh yeah, don't yeah go and see it. It's worth

00:32:28 ◼   ► waiting, going to a store, and handling them both because if the if the relative difference is like

00:32:34 ◼   ► the 6 and the 6 plus you do have to like retrain your hand and you have to sort of figure it out

00:32:42 ◼   ► because it is it is even though it's just an inch more diagonal it is noticeable in a lot

00:32:47 ◼   ► of circumstances and it's worth if you're unsure checking it out because you can definitely be

00:32:55 ◼   ► surprised by the the larger size. Plus Club's gonna come back in a very very big way. I'm excited.

00:33:01 ◼   ► I think so. So this would be the one you would do? This is it? It's no choice. Like this is one I'm

00:33:06 ◼   ► gonna go for right? Like this is not a question for me right? Like I will get the plus phone.

00:33:11 ◼   ► Like I'll get the biggest one. I always want the biggest screens I can have and this this will be

00:33:16 ◼   ► be no different to that. I'm always happy to go for bigger screens because the tradeoffs

00:33:22 ◼   ► for me are never as large as what you know. Like I always want the bigger screen more

00:33:28 ◼   ► than I care about the tradeoff.

00:33:30 ◼   ► That's fair. 27 inch iMac, 12 inch iPad, 6.5 inch phone.

00:33:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it's going to be crazy. It's going to be wild around here. I want to talk about

00:33:40 ◼   ► dual SIM.

00:33:41 ◼   ► Okay, yeah.

00:33:42 ◼   ► Because this has been something that's been prevalent, right? Dual SIM, the iPhone is

00:33:46 ◼   ► to have a dual SIM and that was kind of all it was and then over time it's like well what one's

00:33:50 ◼   ► going to have dual SIM and will it really and then there's been some stuff floating around of like

00:33:54 ◼   ► clearly dual SIM support in iOS and why is this anyway why do people even care about this well it

00:34:00 ◼   ► turns out that dual SIM support so having two SIM cards in a phone is very very popular in China

00:34:07 ◼   ► apparently somewhere between three to four billion people in China have phones with multiple SIMs in

00:34:13 ◼   ► in them or require multiple SIMs.

00:34:15 ◼   ► So this is a big deal.

00:34:16 ◼   ► And like there are these different ways of doing it

00:34:18 ◼   ► and it seems kind of unsure which Apple's gonna do yet

00:34:21 ◼   ► where either you have to make a switch between them

00:34:24 ◼   ► or they kind of both run concurrently.

00:34:26 ◼   ► But now the news report seems to suggest something

00:34:31 ◼   ► that makes so much more sense to me

00:34:33 ◼   ► that this will be a unique version of the LCD iPhone,

00:34:37 ◼   ► so the iPhone 9, only available in China.

00:34:42 ◼   ► So everywhere else except for China, it will have a single SIM, but in China,

00:34:47 ◼   ► there'll be an option or it will come as default with dual SIM support.

00:34:51 ◼   ► This makes so much sense.

00:34:53 ◼   ► They clearly have enough people to sell to them that it warrants doing

00:34:56 ◼   ► a specific one-off version in the same way that they did the Verizon iPhone.

00:35:00 ◼   ► Right. I had one only really in the US.

00:35:04 ◼   ► Right. That it could be used.

00:35:06 ◼   ► But frankly, this would be a kind of weird

00:35:09 ◼   ► an eccentric feature for pretty much everybody else in the world.

00:35:12 ◼   ► Like most of the world, especially in the Western world,

00:35:17 ◼   ► this is not a thing, dual SIM cards, like it's not a thing.

00:35:19 ◼   ► People have two phones, but they don't think about dual SIM cards.

00:35:24 ◼   ► It's just it doesn't really make sense.

00:35:26 ◼   ► I think for what I don't know the actual reasons why.

00:35:29 ◼   ► And I'm sure there are very good reasons why people do this in China.

00:35:32 ◼   ► But outside of China, you know, if people have two numbers,

00:35:36 ◼   ► it's typically because they want two phones, right?

00:35:38 ◼   ► Like there's a thing about having multiple phones, you want multiple handsets, multiple

00:35:42 ◼   ► suppliers or whatever.

00:35:44 ◼   ► Or you just need, you know, you have specific day needs and night needs, whatever it is

00:35:48 ◼   ► that occurs.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Day SIM, night SIM, really.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:35:53 ◼   ► But yeah, so this is likely now, and makes so much more sense to me, that it will just

00:35:58 ◼   ► be a model for China only.

00:36:03 ◼   ► I think it makes sense.

00:36:04 ◼   ► I wonder if it should be in the LCD phone or the nice one.

00:36:11 ◼   ► There's a lot of discussion in the Asian markets about people's preference and size of phone

00:36:20 ◼   ► and as well as having something that looks new.

00:36:22 ◼   ► The idea that you can look at it and maybe the 9 works there because they have the colors.

00:36:27 ◼   ► Maybe they're leaning into that and not so much that it's the absolute latest and greatest.

00:36:33 ◼   ► is a huge market for Apple. And they need to reach those people who aren't using iPhones.

00:36:38 ◼   ► And if the iPhone is going to grow, in terms of user base substantially anymore, it's going to be

00:36:44 ◼   ► in places like China. And so to, to have something that caters to that market, it makes a ton of

00:36:50 ◼   ► sense. You know, I wonder if there are people in other parts of the world that could benefit from

00:36:55 ◼   ► it. I know I have no need for dual SIM like I don't even know what I would do with it. But

00:37:01 ◼   ► I do wonder if it should be at least an option elsewhere.

00:37:04 ◼   ► I don't think it's the thing people are really clamoring for outside of it.

00:37:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:07 ◼   ► I don't think that that's a thing.

00:37:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:37:10 ◼   ► Right? Like, I've never seen a phone for sale in the UK or the US which has two SIMs in it.

00:37:20 ◼   ► I'm sure that it exists. I've just never come across it. And there isn't even a thing,

00:37:24 ◼   ► you know, I watch a lot of reviews of Android phones. It's never mentioned as a feature,

00:37:30 ◼   ► Right. Like typically what you see is a SIM card and an SD card or something like that.

00:37:36 ◼   ► Expandable storage.

00:37:37 ◼   ► But yeah, and I think what happens is like maybe in China, if that phone's sold, there's actually

00:37:44 ◼   ► two SIMs that go in there. But this is not a thing that I see anywhere else. I'd never come across it.

00:37:50 ◼   ► There's a couple of extra things on iPad rumors. So it's been discovered by a friend of the show,

00:37:57 ◼   ► Guilherme Rambo that in the simulator for iOS 12 Beta 5 you can get in iPad size both

00:38:05 ◼   ► a home indicator and rounded corners in apps and multitasking.

00:38:11 ◼   ► And I've been poking around a little bit and there are hints of rounded corners throughout

00:38:15 ◼   ► iOS 12 anyway, like simulator or not on the iPad.

00:38:19 ◼   ► Which makes perfect sense because then it would meet the new style of the OLED phones

00:38:23 ◼   ► with the small bezels, they have rounded corners, not sharp corners.

00:38:27 ◼   ► So just yet again, more and more evidence, new evidence now for this, which also continues

00:38:34 ◼   ► with these glyphs, these device sized glyphs, which were also discovered by Rambo's @_inside

00:38:41 ◼   ► on Twitter.

00:38:43 ◼   ► Found a couple of things.

00:38:44 ◼   ► One was these payment glyphs, which was how he found the iPhone 10 one.

00:38:48 ◼   ► Do you remember like just showing the outline of the notch?

00:38:50 ◼   ► It's the exact same thing.

00:38:52 ◼   ► It was a payment glyph and he's found a new iPhone 10,

00:38:56 ◼   ► what appears to be an iPhone 10 Plus.

00:38:58 ◼   ► And then something which was super weird to see at first,

00:39:01 ◼   ► which was the iPad glyph, which is a square.

00:39:04 ◼   ► And a lot sent me into a tizzy, right?

00:39:07 ◼   ► Like a square iPad, like why would that be?

00:39:10 ◼   ► But then more smart people,

00:39:13 ◼   ► you can see it in the replies to the tweet,

00:39:15 ◼   ► saying, oh, but this is probably just one glyph,

00:39:17 ◼   ► which is then resized.

00:39:20 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:39:21 ◼   ► on whether it's a bigger or smaller iPad.

00:39:23 ◼   ► And it was like, oh, good for you.

00:39:24 ◼   ► I was a little bit concerned

00:39:26 ◼   ► that we were gonna get a square iPad.

00:39:28 ◼   ► So yeah, that's kind of, again,

00:39:31 ◼   ► just more and more evidence for these new iPads,

00:39:36 ◼   ► which should be coming kind of around

00:39:38 ◼   ► the same time in September.

00:39:40 ◼   ► - Maybe they do in October with Macs, who knows?

00:39:43 ◼   ► That debate is endless of what they put in conjunction

00:39:48 ◼   ► with the iPhone and they've done a bunch of stuff with the iPhone.

00:39:51 ◼   ► They've had just iPhone events, you know, two, three years ago now they did the big

00:39:56 ◼   ► iPad Pro, the Apple TV and the iPhone 6s.

00:39:59 ◼   ► Like they can do whatever they want and they've done stuff all over the map.

00:40:03 ◼   ► So who knows what will actually happen.

00:40:05 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:40:06 ◼   ► A significant redesign to the iPads would call for a lot of attention and the best attention

00:40:12 ◼   ► you can give it is the iPhone.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:40:15 ◼   ► We'll see.

00:40:16 ◼   ► I just won October event because I want Max on stage and hopefully there's a...

00:40:20 ◼   ► They can still do something.

00:40:22 ◼   ► Hopefully there's no new, there are new Max to talk about.

00:40:25 ◼   ► If not, people are going to be sad.

00:40:27 ◼   ► My other question with the iPad is I'm not convinced that turning the iPad into a big

00:40:32 ◼   ► iPhone X is the right answer.

00:40:34 ◼   ► You know, there are changes in iOS 12 to the way the gestures work and they put, they broke

00:40:41 ◼   ► apart multitasking and control center.

00:40:44 ◼   ► in the upper right hand corner, just where it is on the phone.

00:40:48 ◼   ► The menu bar looks like it is on the iPhone X.

00:40:53 ◼   ► I understand wanting visually things to be the same.

00:40:56 ◼   ► These iPads are not rumored to have notches.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Whatever bezel they have will accommodate the Face ID hardware just fine.

00:41:02 ◼   ► They won't need to cut into the screen anywhere, which would look weird on an iPad anyways.

00:41:07 ◼   ► But I don't know, someone who uses an iPad way more than I do, do you have any feelings

00:41:11 ◼   ► about them sort of grafting on the iPhone 10 stuff to to the iPad because last year

00:41:18 ◼   ► now still unless you're running the iOS 12 beta if you have an iPhone 10 iPad some of the gestures

00:41:24 ◼   ► are in direct competition with each other right some things do exactly the different thing if you

00:41:30 ◼   ► sit your phone down do your and pick up your iPad and I was hoping they would sort of meet in the

00:41:35 ◼   ► middle and maybe the iPhone 10 would get things like putting control center in a place that makes

00:41:39 ◼   ► sense and the iPad can maybe pick up some stuff but it seems like the iPhone 10 is the

00:41:44 ◼   ► way forward when it comes to gestures. Do you have any thoughts?

00:41:48 ◼   ► I think it's fine. I think from a hardware perspective it's the perfect answer because

00:41:52 ◼   ► the iPhone 10 hardware is incredible. So if they can make an iPad which is similar to

00:41:56 ◼   ► the iPhone 10 hardware it's amazing. When it comes to software, so control center, putting

00:42:00 ◼   ► control center where it is I think is the right move because I like it more now, it

00:42:05 ◼   ► more sense to me because it's exactly where I use it on my iPhone. I'm not a huge fan of the changes

00:42:11 ◼   ► that they made to swiping up takes you to home rather than bringing up the dock. You have to do

00:42:17 ◼   ► like a slower, more considered swipe to get to the dock because I believe that the dock makes

00:42:24 ◼   ► the most sense for the iPad. However, there are a lot of people that seem to be upset about

00:42:32 ◼   ► that when the iPhone 10 came out that it was had completely different gestures to the iPad and

00:42:38 ◼   ► people were getting turned off of using their iPads because it was so confusing. Whilst I never

00:42:43 ◼   ► felt that and never fully understood it, if that is a thing that has happened and I believe that

00:42:48 ◼   ► Apple know that, then yes, they should change the iPad's gestures to make it best for most people.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Like if there are a lot of people that really didn't like the difference, like that these

00:43:00 ◼   ► gestures were different, then I figure it's probably the right thing to do, even though

00:43:04 ◼   ► I don't personally like it.

00:43:06 ◼   ► That's fair.

00:43:07 ◼   ► I think it's more important that they're the same across the devices than if the specifics

00:43:14 ◼   ► are to my liking.

00:43:15 ◼   ► I think the uniformity is the ultimate goal.

00:43:18 ◼   ► Yeah, and frankly, the iPhone and the iPad are different, but they're not that different.

00:43:26 ◼   ► And there should be uniformity.

00:43:28 ◼   ► And then what I expect is iOS 13 will take some huge leaps in some directions and then

00:43:34 ◼   ► 14 will bring it back together a little bit more again and that's just kind of how we're

00:43:37 ◼   ► going to go now and I'm fine with that.

00:43:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:43:40 ◼   ► Well, there you go.

00:43:42 ◼   ► This is the beginning of what will be rumor month on all the Apple podcasts and websites.

00:43:47 ◼   ► So it's just the beginning.

00:43:49 ◼   ► Enjoy.

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00:45:32 ◼   ► So we thought we would talk a little bit about some app news. Federico's not here

00:45:38 ◼   ► So there's no one there's no one covering the apps

00:45:40 ◼   ► And so we thought we would some stuff that we use and we like should we tell some stories?

00:45:45 ◼   ► Probably these apps we sell some stories about apps. There's a name for that. So we're gonna start with instapaper

00:45:51 ◼   ► We spoke about this a while back, but they are

00:45:55 ◼   ► Independent and spurs been kind of I guess I guess purchased and removed from the cold dead hands of Pinterest and is now back

00:46:03 ◼   ► independent owned and operated by the people who are working on it within Pinterest including some friends of ours and

00:46:11 ◼   ► They have announced some changes this week. They have returned to the paid subscription model

00:46:17 ◼   ► And so if you want things like full text search unlimited notes

00:46:21 ◼   ► speed reading no ads

00:46:24 ◼   ► on the website you can pay $2.99 a month or 30 bucks a year and

00:46:28 ◼   ► This had been removed from instant paper when Pinterest took over they made everything free and now this is sort of back in

00:46:36 ◼   ► If you need those features you can do it

00:46:41 ◼   ► Those purchases are not available as an in-app purchase. There was a tweet from the developers saying they

00:46:46 ◼   ► Hadn't gotten to that yet, but they they were looking into it. You can do it on the web

00:46:51 ◼   ► It's hand the payments handled by stripe of course doing that way Apple is not taking their cut so all of it is going to

00:46:59 ◼   ► To the developers, and you know I've used instapaper. I've talked about this

00:47:03 ◼   ► I've used it since the day it came out and it's been on my home screen in my phone and iPad ever since and

00:47:09 ◼   ► There's something that I'm probably gonna do because I want it to be

00:47:12 ◼   ► successful it's not necessarily the features, but I want them and I want this app to be around and

00:47:18 ◼   ► the news also came that they

00:47:22 ◼   ► Have done whatever they needed to do to become GDPR compliant

00:47:26 ◼   ► Instapaper was more or less unavailable in the European Union

00:47:30 ◼   ► We got a bunch of tweets and stuff people saying well I see it

00:47:32 ◼   ► but I don't and it seemed like maybe that was a little weird but

00:47:36 ◼   ► That's all been fixed. It's now fully available in Europe again and

00:47:39 ◼   ► that they had what I thought was a pretty straightforward apology about that delay and

00:47:46 ◼   ► On top of that apology. They are giving six months of free premium users a

00:47:51 ◼   ► free premium like a

00:47:54 ◼   ► Membership I guess yeah to users in the in the European Union, which I think is a really I think it's a classy move

00:48:01 ◼   ► I think that's nice

00:48:04 ◼   ► They did the right thing, you know, like they never should have gotten themselves into the situation that they did and it shouldn't have taken as long as it did.

00:48:11 ◼   ► I understand that there was obviously some stuff going on, right, which probably was part of the reason that led to this even happening in the first place, right?

00:48:20 ◼   ► That it seems to have been bought or just released to this company. I'm still a little bit like confused as to what's going on there, right?

00:48:28 ◼   ► I don't know if it's clear if the people that are working for this company,

00:48:32 ◼   ► Instant Paper Inc, if they still work for Pinterest or not.

00:48:35 ◼   ► I don't know if it is clear what is happening there.

00:48:40 ◼   ► Like, is this a side project? Is this a business?

00:48:42 ◼   ► It's not important.

00:48:43 ◼   ► I just wonder. Like, I don't know.

00:48:47 ◼   ► So, you know, because then it's like

00:48:49 ◼   ► if this is these people's jobs now, then it becomes more intriguing.

00:48:52 ◼   ► It's still like you believe that they're really going to try and push this thing

00:48:56 ◼   ► make it very sustainable for them in the long term.

00:48:59 ◼   ► But anyway, I think giving the six month free

00:49:02 ◼   ► for EU users a good move, I think it's the right thing

00:49:04 ◼   ► to do, yeah, I think 'cause it's been a very, very long time

00:49:09 ◼   ► what, since April or something?

00:49:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:49:12 ◼   ► - April, May, since GDPR came in and they've,

00:49:15 ◼   ► if there's still a bunch of websites I go to, man,

00:49:17 ◼   ► and it says to me I can't access them,

00:49:19 ◼   ► like newspapers, like LA Times, I can't go to the LA Times.

00:49:24 ◼   ► Just can't go to it, it's just like,

00:49:25 ◼   ► "No, you're in the EU, so we can't help you." Basically, any trunk site is like, "I can't go to it."

00:49:30 ◼   ► I just can't believe it. I just can't believe. Like, what are you doing? And it's also like a

00:49:36 ◼   ► bunch of company, like a bunch of websites I go to now where it throws up that dialogue box. I'm like,

00:49:41 ◼   ► "What? What are you doing?" Anyway, but I wanted to ask you, because I haven't really paid attention

00:49:47 ◼   ► to Instapaper for a long time because I just don't use services like this, all of the features,

00:49:53 ◼   ► So full text search and limited notes, text to speech play, speed reading, and send to Kindle.

00:49:58 ◼   ► Were they available for free before? I believe, so don't take this as gospel, but I believe that

00:50:09 ◼   ► these things were part of the previous premium subscription, and then when this paper weren't

00:50:15 ◼   ► all free everybody got this stuff. Right, so they've taken what was premium that went free

00:50:22 ◼   ► and put it back behind premium again? I think. Okay. I, out of all of these features, I use

00:50:28 ◼   ► actually none of these. Like, I don't have any notes in this paper. I actually don't use this

00:50:33 ◼   ► paper for search very often. Or if I do, you know, it's not hard to find stuff. I don't, I really

00:50:40 ◼   ► dislike speed reading. And I don't send stuff to my Kindle. So I don't, I don't actually know. But

00:50:45 ◼   ► that is my, that's my feeling. These aren't all new features. These things have existed in the

00:50:51 ◼   ► app. So I believe that they were all free before. So yeah, that's rough. And if you look at the at

00:50:55 ◼   ► the comments on this blog post, like, there are a bunch of really angry people in here,

00:51:00 ◼   ► instance of paper has a real uphill battle in terms of whatever happened with GDPR and making

00:51:09 ◼   ► it right with those users. And saying, Hey, this was free. Now it's paid again. They got a lot of

00:51:16 ◼   ► stuff to they have a lot of stuff to overcome and I hope they can do it I really do but if they can't

00:51:24 ◼   ► I'm not going to be super shocked looking at the reaction to this because people are rightfully so

00:51:34 ◼   ► really really upset because you know going back and forth like this and then being down for a

00:51:45 ◼   ► for a bunch of your users for two months is not a great look.

00:51:47 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:51:48 ◼   ► And then even stuff like you can't buy a subscription in the app right now, which is something that

00:51:55 ◼   ► they're looking to change, but like...

00:51:58 ◼   ► They should have had that, even if Apple took the cut charge more or something, they should

00:52:02 ◼   ► have had that.

00:52:03 ◼   ► If I went to the app looking, "Oh, I'll just do it as an in-app subscription."

00:52:09 ◼   ► And the fact that that's not there and it's only on the web is like, they said, "Oh, we

00:52:13 ◼   ► around time is like, well, you control the schedule.

00:52:15 ◼   ► Like if you needed another week, wait a week.

00:52:18 ◼   ► I don't think it's about that.

00:52:19 ◼   ► My guess is it's really about the income generated from it

00:52:22 ◼   ► and putting it on the web versus Apple's cut.

00:52:26 ◼   ► I kind of think that may come out in the wash

00:52:28 ◼   ► that if it was in the app, more people would do it

00:52:31 ◼   ► more quickly 'cause you don't have to deal with Stripe

00:52:33 ◼   ► and like going to a website.

00:52:34 ◼   ► If you're just on your phone, it's in the app.

00:52:35 ◼   ► It's easy to do.

00:52:37 ◼   ► And so I wonder if that's the right call.

00:52:38 ◼   ► I kind of think it's not, but I don't know.

00:52:41 ◼   ► I mean, I don't know their numbers.

00:52:42 ◼   ► they do. Whatever happens, though, I would imagine that

00:52:49 ◼   ► who whoever joins this, like, paid subscription thing for

00:52:54 ◼   ► Instapaper, that number is going to be way lower than it was

00:52:57 ◼   ► before, because of all this, this damage has been done to the

00:53:01 ◼   ► app and its reputation over the last three or four years.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well,

00:53:07 ◼   ► I mean, you know, I balance all that. And I don't mean to be a

00:53:12 ◼   ► downer. I balance all that with the guys who are working on it. I know them a little bit,

00:53:18 ◼   ► but they're clearly passionate about it because at least Brian, I believe, followed the app to

00:53:26 ◼   ► Pinterest from Betaworks and now owns it. And I believe they have left Pinterest as employees.

00:53:33 ◼   ► I don't know that for sure, but that's the sense I get.

00:53:35 ◼   ► So Brian's contract expired and he just bought the company and left.

00:53:42 ◼   ► Yeah, maybe.

00:53:43 ◼   ► Which is totally fine to do, right?

00:53:46 ◼   ► To me, that's clearly what happened.

00:53:47 ◼   ► Yeah, but also clearly, they clearly care about the product.

00:53:51 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, of course.

00:53:54 ◼   ► And they want it to exist.

00:53:55 ◼   ► Most apps, we're going to talk about an app in a second that's dead.

00:53:59 ◼   ► Instapaper should have died a long time ago, probably.

00:54:01 ◼   ► apps would not have survived this many handoffs and the this many acquisitions and changes.

00:54:07 ◼   ► Maybe their consistency and hey, the same team is working on it. Maybe that's a good thing. And so,

00:54:13 ◼   ► you know, I'm gonna continue to use it as long as I can. And hopefully that's, hopefully that's

00:54:19 ◼   ► a really long time from now. Hopefully they can they can get another decade or more out of this

00:54:22 ◼   ► app. But I think they've got a lot of stuff to overcome in the short term before they can move

00:54:28 ◼   ► on to that sort of long-term thinking.

00:54:30 ◼   ► So, as well as, so there's a bunch of other stuff today. Castro, which is a really beautiful

00:54:35 ◼   ► podcast app for the iPhone, has a couple of interesting features added to it. One of them

00:54:41 ◼   ► is side loading of files, which I think is super cool. So this allows you to save an

00:54:48 ◼   ► audio file from any iOS or Mac OS device to a folder that's created in iCloud Drive. So

00:54:57 ◼   ► So Castro has a folder in iCloud Drive.

00:55:00 ◼   ► So you could, for example,

00:55:01 ◼   ► download an audio book on your Mac,

00:55:03 ◼   ► and if it's DRM free,

00:55:05 ◼   ► you could save it into the iCloud Drive folder.

00:55:08 ◼   ► And then when you go to Castro on your iPhone,

00:55:10 ◼   ► it's gonna show up there,

00:55:11 ◼   ► and then you can play it, and that's really cool.

00:55:13 ◼   ► I love this feature.

00:55:14 ◼   ► I very frequently use Overcast's upload feature.

00:55:19 ◼   ► But adding this being in iCloud Drive

00:55:22 ◼   ► is a lot more convenient

00:55:25 ◼   ► then uploading it to the web site, to the Overcast web site.

00:55:29 ◼   ► Just for me this makes more sense, especially when dealing with things on iOS.

00:55:32 ◼   ► You know, if I got something in iOS in Dropbox, I could just drag it in files into the iCloud

00:55:38 ◼   ► drive and it would just show up.

00:55:40 ◼   ► That is more convenient.

00:55:41 ◼   ► I think this is a really cool feature.

00:55:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean the way I often do it is I'll have something in Dropbox and either on my

00:55:47 ◼   ► Mac or it works on iOS as well because of the Files app.

00:55:52 ◼   ► You gotta get Overcast's web site and upload it.

00:55:54 ◼   ► This is something that I think I think ever cast I think markers should look at for evercast I

00:55:58 ◼   ► Use this feature all the time and I understand I

00:56:03 ◼   ► would imagine the vast majority users don't like I would venture to guess that it's like single-digit percentage of evercast users or or

00:56:10 ◼   ► Castro even side load files, but for those of us who do I

00:56:16 ◼   ► wish it was

00:56:18 ◼   ► Simpler or even like having a URL of a file if it's on the web somewhere and just giving that URL

00:56:24 ◼   ► To your podcast client and it is downloading it directly right now. You can use something

00:56:28 ◼   ► like huff duffer for that but

00:56:31 ◼   ► More ways to get audio into podcast apps is good

00:56:35 ◼   ► And of course the Castro team those guys do amazing work. All this is like

00:56:39 ◼   ► Super well polished and it's it comes with like the level of niceness that you would expect from an app as beautiful as Castro

00:56:47 ◼   ► they also added a feature the chapter pre selection so you can go in to their

00:56:58 ◼   ► chapter view and in Castro chapter selection and skipping and stuff like

00:57:02 ◼   ► that is only available to the premium members that I call it premium I say

00:57:08 ◼   ► have a town I think it's it's you know what premium means you know what it

00:57:11 ◼   ► if you pay them. Castro Crew. That's what they should have called it. Castro Crew.

00:57:17 ◼   ► I don't think they should have called it that. I think it's really good.

00:57:21 ◼   ► I think it's Castro Plus because they have app icons and one of them is a plus.

00:57:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it's called Castro Plus. So if you use the Castro Plus thing, if you pay for that, you can

00:57:32 ◼   ► get chapters and then now you can, they have little check boxes and you can untick chapters.

00:57:38 ◼   ► So you could go in and be like, "I don't care about follow-up."

00:57:41 ◼   ► You know, you go like, "Oh, I don't care about Mac or anything."

00:57:47 ◼   ► Everyone cares about both of those things.

00:57:50 ◼   ► So you could just look at it and you could untick a bunch of chapters.

00:57:54 ◼   ► Of course, you could do this if a show has ads, you could do that too.

00:57:58 ◼   ► I would recommend, I would love it if you didn't do that.

00:58:00 ◼   ► But what you're going to do?

00:58:02 ◼   ► So you can go in and you can uncheck stuff.

00:58:05 ◼   ► And so this could be like, say you're getting in a car, you're going to the gym or whatever,

00:58:09 ◼   ► there's things you just don't want to hear, you can uncheck them beforehand, press play and let

00:58:13 ◼   ► it run. Yeah, it's a nice, it's a nice addition. And again, it it, I love the screen for it. Like,

00:58:19 ◼   ► it's really nice interaction is really fun. Yeah, you know, chapters are here to stay. We've,

00:58:26 ◼   ► we're doing them in a lot of our shows and where they where they make sense. And I think better

00:58:33 ◼   ► ways to manage that is fair game. You know, if you're going to chapterize a podcast, part of that

00:58:37 ◼   ► equation is it does make people easier to skip around. And you know, I'm, I'm fine with that. I

00:58:44 ◼   ► understand that's part of the medium. And the reality is that the numbers show that most people

00:58:50 ◼   ► listen to most of the content and most episodes. So like, I'm not, I'm not worried this is suddenly

00:58:57 ◼   ► going to like tank or like drastically change the way people listen. Because you can do this in

00:59:01 ◼   ► other apps just manually like they're they're twisted that you can do it on the front end which

00:59:06 ◼   ► is clever but i don't think it's really introducing anything all that new from like a producer

00:59:12 ◼   ► perspective while we're talking about podcasting mike i have good news skype 7 has gotten a new

00:59:23 ◼   ► lease on life for now so this is this is the quote from microsoft we will extend support for quote

00:59:31 ◼   ► some time who knows what that means I assume that means the end of the year so

00:59:37 ◼   ► Skype 7 no one likes Skype but Skype 7 is a pretty okay version of Skype in

00:59:44 ◼   ► most people's eyes I was using Skype 6 for a really really long time and now

00:59:50 ◼   ► I'm on 8 which is the current version and it's it's not awesome it's got some

00:59:57 ◼   ► weird things like alerts kind of don't work so you have to be looking at Skype

01:00:01 ◼   ► Some kind of cross-platform app. I don't know what this cross-platformness is, but it's

01:00:06 ◼   ► some kind of cross-platformy stuff. And this, when it first came out, this new version of

01:00:13 ◼   ► Skype, which is a...

01:00:14 ◼   ► Guess what it's built on. You can guess.

01:00:18 ◼   ► Is it Electron?

01:00:19 ◼   ► It is. I'm looking in the frameworks folder.

01:00:21 ◼   ► Oh, I didn't know that. So Skype is now on Electron app. And there's a bunch of stuff,

01:00:24 ◼   ► like it doesn't have a traditional preference pane. They had to add in this weird zombie

01:00:28 ◼   ► preference pane because you couldn't change audio inputs. There's a bunch of stuff in this app which

01:00:32 ◼   ► is not good. Frankly, I don't like this Skype 7 read decision. I wish they would just make a

01:00:39 ◼   ► definitive decision on it so then people can make up their minds about what they want to do.

01:00:44 ◼   ► I don't like this, we're going to kill it. Oh no, no, we're going to keep it for some time.

01:00:48 ◼   ► Either do it or don't do it and then just be upfront with your customers because if they're

01:00:55 ◼   ► they're just gonna keep screwing around with it, then people can decide to go elsewhere

01:00:58 ◼   ► if they want to, but I really don't like this kind of like stringing along that they've

01:01:01 ◼   ► been doing for multiple years now with Skype.

01:01:07 ◼   ► Microsoft clearly have a route they want to go down.

01:01:10 ◼   ► If they go down that route or don't like Microsoft is so bad with this stuff.

01:01:14 ◼   ► Either go down that route or don't go down that route.

01:01:17 ◼   ► Look at Windows 8.

01:01:19 ◼   ► Exactly.

01:01:20 ◼   ► Like you have to make a decision.

01:01:21 ◼   ► Stop making decisions, annoying people and then changing your mind.

01:01:25 ◼   ► should know your decisions are going to annoy people before you make them because you should

01:01:28 ◼   ► have a lot of smart people there understand what's going to happen. And if you know that

01:01:32 ◼   ► just weather the storm because everyone will forget about it eventually, right? Like, just

01:01:36 ◼   ► make a decision like I hate this, like, make a decision, go back on it, make a decision,

01:01:42 ◼   ► go back on it, like just do it or don't do it. And then let people fall where they will.

01:01:46 ◼   ► You're right. Microsoft's really bad at it. Apple is not Apple, maybe on the other end

01:01:50 ◼   ► of the spectrum, march forward. And you can run classic for a few years and you can rosetta for

01:01:57 ◼   ► a few years. But eventually we're going to kill that stuff because the future is where we're

01:02:00 ◼   ► going and come on or get left behind. And I don't know. I mean, Skype eight is not a great program.

01:02:09 ◼   ► It's not like it's like you said, it's weird. And it's electronic, which is gross, but it gets the

01:02:14 ◼   ► job done. And I'm staying on eight at this point, because I don't want to get used to like the old

01:02:20 ◼   ► way again and then be forced back into this. So like my tools still work in it, I've learned

01:02:26 ◼   ► it's weirdness and where it can get tripped up and I'm just staying with it for now.

01:02:31 ◼   ► The Newton email app is dead, it's dying, gone away, there's gonna be no more.

01:02:38 ◼   ► Not staying with Newton anymore. It's shutting down on September 25th. I never used this,

01:02:45 ◼   ► did you use this in your great email spiritual journey?

01:02:48 ◼   ► I tried it and for a reason that I don't remember it didn't stick with me.

01:02:52 ◼   ► Newton used to be called Cloud Magic.

01:02:55 ◼   ► That's right.

01:02:56 ◼   ► And they rebranded.

01:02:57 ◼   ► So they said in their blog post they had 40,000 paying subscribers

01:03:02 ◼   ► but they couldn't figure out long-term profitability for the company.

01:03:05 ◼   ► I think it is unclear from the way that they've written this

01:03:09 ◼   ► as to whether they still had 40,000 paying subscribers.

01:03:13 ◼   ► They kind of referenced that at one point they had 40,000 paying subscribers.

01:03:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:03:17 ◼   ► because really if they had 40,000 paying subscribers, I can't understand how they

01:03:23 ◼   ► didn't work out to keep the company going. Because that's a lot of people paying you money.

01:03:28 ◼   ► It is.

01:03:28 ◼   ► And I don't think Newton's very cheap. I think that was one of the reasons that I was put off

01:03:32 ◼   ► from it, which is like, it didn't offer me all the features I wanted. And it was pretty expensive

01:03:37 ◼   ► for what I thought I was getting. I think that was one of the reasons that it turned me off.

01:03:40 ◼   ► Because like a lot of the features that they were promoting just didn't work for what I wanted.

01:03:45 ◼   ► They kind of made the point, and I think this is the biggest problem here,

01:03:52 ◼   ► premium email apps and services cannot compete with free services and the free services are owned

01:03:57 ◼   ► by companies like Apple and Google. Oh yeah, little startups. Right, they all offer free email

01:04:05 ◼   ► like for people and for the majority of people all they need is what Gmail provides them.

01:04:10 ◼   ► because Gmail is very full featured.

01:04:12 ◼   ► They are gonna be offering refunds

01:04:15 ◼   ► for the rest of their customers' outstanding subscriptions.

01:04:18 ◼   ► They said they're working with Apple and Google on this.

01:04:19 ◼   ► I don't understand how that's gonna really help them,

01:04:22 ◼   ► but fine.

01:04:24 ◼   ► They're gonna try and find a way

01:04:25 ◼   ► to give people their money back, which I think is great.

01:04:27 ◼   ► My question is, are email apps

01:04:29 ◼   ► going the way of photo backup solutions?

01:04:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I think for the reason that you said,

01:04:35 ◼   ► these apps have to compete with first-party solutions.

01:04:40 ◼   ► So like mail apps not great for everyone,

01:04:45 ◼   ► but it works for the vast majority of people.

01:04:47 ◼   ► And if it doesn't work, you can install the Gmail app,

01:04:50 ◼   ► which works with the most popular email service

01:04:53 ◼   ► on the planet really well.

01:04:55 ◼   ► And these companies have to find a leg in to do something

01:05:00 ◼   ► that the default apps don't do.

01:05:02 ◼   ► And so Spark, for instance, which we've talked about,

01:05:05 ◼   ► we use it Relay because of their chat and behind the scenes

01:05:09 ◼   ► features, like we can work together on a response to an email or have a conversation about something

01:05:15 ◼   ► in like a side rail, and then we go back to the email when it's time instead of like bouncing

01:05:20 ◼   ► out to slack.

01:05:22 ◼   ► Spark has carved itself out a little spot.

01:05:25 ◼   ► And I don't know if Spark's gonna be successful long term, but for now they seem to be and

01:05:30 ◼   ► they are they are targeting like business use cases.

01:05:35 ◼   ► Newton and probably airmail, I think are different than that, because it's I think their market

01:05:41 ◼   ► is like, nerds, like, I was gonna say email enthusiasts, but no one is an email enthusiast.

01:05:47 ◼   ► But people who want people a no more features are out there and they exist and want those

01:05:52 ◼   ► features. And that's got to be a small number of people. And yeah, I think I think just

01:05:58 ◼   ► the end of the day, whatever's built in, or provided for free by the your service that

01:06:03 ◼   ► you use. That's what people are going to go with. I know people who have used Gmail on

01:06:07 ◼   ► their phone because they don't know that the mail app works with Gmail. They're like, "Oh,

01:06:10 ◼   ► I have Gmail, I download the Gmail app," and they use it for years and they're totally fine.

01:06:13 ◼   ► It's a good app. I'd imagine it's hard to compete with that. I think you're right. A lot of mail

01:06:19 ◼   ► apps, there's a lot of carcasses of email apps stacking up around here. It's starting to be

01:06:26 ◼   ► worrisome. I think that really the only way to survive is to offer some kind of business or

01:06:32 ◼   ► sales focus features. I don't know what Spark is doing, I don't know how they're doing,

01:06:39 ◼   ► but I think what they are doing makes the most sense of today. You put a team on it,

01:06:43 ◼   ► the team pays for it, and they get something that they need. Although I will say, I am

01:06:49 ◼   ► using it, but I'm not paying for it, because their free tier gives me absolutely everything

01:06:57 ◼   ► that I need and I don't understand why. I don't know why they offer their team

01:07:02 ◼   ► stuff for free. I don't understand it because I would pay for it.

01:07:07 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah we absolutely would. But what I get for paying for it I don't need it.

01:07:11 ◼   ► Like I'm planning to, I've just remembered, I was planning to sign up

01:07:14 ◼   ► for their paid thing just to give them money but I don't think they need a free

01:07:18 ◼   ► version of it at all. It seems strange to me. I'm gonna write down note now.

01:07:24 ◼   ► going to sign up to pay for Spark. But it's like, I just, I don't understand why they even offer a

01:07:30 ◼   ► free thing. They should offer a trial, like for a time period, so people can try it out. But I don't

01:07:36 ◼   ► know why they offer a free tier permanently, it seems strange to me. And talking about things

01:07:43 ◼   ► dying, third-party Twitter clients as we know them, it's all about to change. Next week is when

01:07:50 ◼   ► when Twitter intends to make their API changes

01:07:52 ◼   ► that we spoke about some number of weeks ago

01:07:55 ◼   ► that are going to affect the way

01:07:57 ◼   ► that third parties access the service.

01:07:59 ◼   ► So let me tell you what you're going to see.

01:08:01 ◼   ► You're going to see delays on alerts and notifications,

01:08:04 ◼   ► some mentions in DMs,

01:08:06 ◼   ► and timeline streaming will stop working.

01:08:09 ◼   ► So the icon factory who owns Twitterrific,

01:08:11 ◼   ► they started their preparation for this a few weeks back,

01:08:14 ◼   ► and they did two things.

01:08:15 ◼   ► They removed their watch app

01:08:17 ◼   ► because this was powered by the streaming API,

01:08:19 ◼   ► and new customers were no longer able to access TodayView or get push notifications at all.

01:08:26 ◼   ► So come back to that in a second.

01:08:27 ◼   ► Tabbots, they've not been as succinct as the icon factory, right?

01:08:32 ◼   ► Because the icon factory put this all in a blog post.

01:08:34 ◼   ► But tabbots have some wording on their FAQs and in some tweets that they've been sending by the support channels.

01:08:40 ◼   ► So you can kind of piece together a little bit about what's going on there.

01:08:44 ◼   ► So they say, "Tabbots have said in the worst case scenario we won't be able to show notifications for likes or retweets,

01:08:50 ◼   ► or notifications for tweets, mentions, DMs and follows should be delayed by one to two minutes."

01:08:56 ◼   ► So I don't really feel like I understand what's going on here, because IconFactory and Tabbots

01:09:03 ◼   ► seem to be saying things differently, because the IconFactory completely removed push notifications for new users.

01:09:10 ◼   ► But for Tabbots, they're saying that there will still be tweet mentions and DM notifications and follows, but they're going to be delayed?

01:09:18 ◼   ► I'm not completely sure what's going on. Is one of them wrong? Is one of them either acting too quickly or not enough?

01:09:27 ◼   ► It's a little bit confusing to me because the two companies that really this seems to affect the most, at least in our space, seem to be reacting to this news very differently.

01:09:37 ◼   ► Tapbots have also stated that Twitter will remove timeline streaming.

01:09:41 ◼   ► They haven't said what's going to happen to their activity or their stats screen, which

01:09:45 ◼   ► I assumed was powered by timeline streaming.

01:09:48 ◼   ► That's why Twitteriffic had to get rid of theirs.

01:09:51 ◼   ► So either the icon factory is overreacting or Tapbots is underreacting or it's somewhere

01:09:57 ◼   ► in the middle of it.

01:09:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, we will know shortly.

01:10:01 ◼   ► So say that Tapbots is right, that some streaming stuff will still work but it's delayed.

01:10:06 ◼   ► I wonder if Tapbots looked at that and said, "It's a cleaner experience, more predictable

01:10:13 ◼   ► if we just axe all of it."

01:10:15 ◼   ► Or maybe they thought, "Hey, you know..."

01:10:17 ◼   ► That doesn't seem right to me.

01:10:19 ◼   ► Because the things that Tapbots are saying you'll still get notifications for is probably

01:10:23 ◼   ► the things people want notifications for the most.

01:10:26 ◼   ► DMs, mentions, but they're just coming through slower.

01:10:30 ◼   ► But is a one to two minute delayed notification better than no notification?

01:10:35 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Well, I would say yes, it is worth it.

01:10:39 ◼   ► Like a delay of two minutes is better than nothing.

01:10:42 ◼   ► I mean, if Tapbots is right and they still offer some notifications and Twitterific offers

01:10:49 ◼   ► none, that looks real bad on Twitterific.

01:10:51 ◼   ► It probably will kill Twitterific, honestly.

01:10:55 ◼   ► And maybe it's...

01:10:56 ◼   ► Because people will blame them.

01:10:58 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:10:59 ◼   ► Maybe that's okay with the icon factory.

01:11:01 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:11:02 ◼   ► I don't know if they're trying to like scuttle the app or not.

01:11:04 ◼   ► But this has been coming for a long time, but I still think people are going to be surprised,

01:11:08 ◼   ► and I wouldn't want to be in support for either of these apps when this happens in a couple

01:11:12 ◼   ► of weeks.

01:11:13 ◼   ► I guess people are going to be surprised.

01:11:15 ◼   ► Because the amount of people that actually notice information that use these applications

01:11:18 ◼   ► is a minuscule percentage.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Because as well, the people that even get told this information seem to have very different

01:11:27 ◼   ► understandings of it.

01:11:30 ◼   ► Or someone's like, or maybe like Tapbots got something special.

01:11:34 ◼   ► Like we don't know, but I just looked at this news.

01:11:38 ◼   ► I compared what's going on here and it doesn't make sense to me.

01:11:41 ◼   ► So like Twitter was making these changes,

01:11:45 ◼   ► but two companies that in theory offer the same thing seem to be reacting to it

01:11:49 ◼   ► very differently. So I am very keen to see what happens next week.

01:11:53 ◼   ► Yeah, me too. And you know,

01:11:55 ◼   ► I like to be bot, but Tapbots is not always the most communicative.

01:11:59 ◼   ► Communicative? Is that how you say that?

01:12:01 ◼   ► Yeah, sure.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Sure. They're not the most forthcoming with information at all the time. Their

01:12:09 ◼   ► customer-facing communication is not always clear or timely. And so who knows? It's

01:12:17 ◼   ► probably somewhere in the middle. And I guess the bad news is we're all gonna find

01:12:21 ◼   ► out soon enough. I mean is this gonna, I say that, but is this gonna really drastically

01:12:26 ◼   ► change the way you use Twitter? Like I don't have any notifications on except for DMs and

01:12:32 ◼   ► very few people DM me and none of those are life or death so if it's a little bit slower

01:12:37 ◼   ► or I don't see them for a little while, it's not the end of the world. What about you or

01:12:42 ◼   ► like what about people at large? I understand most people don't have the notification problems

01:12:46 ◼   ► we do because we have larger followings.

01:12:48 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about people at large again, because I'm not going through that conversation

01:12:52 ◼   ► with people that we had last time where I tried to say what I believe and still believe to be

01:12:57 ◼   ► how it will affect most people using Twitter, but a lot of people didn't seem to agree with

01:13:01 ◼   ► what I was saying. For me personally, it will be frustrating at times to have things come through

01:13:08 ◼   ► a little bit slower, like a minute or two minute delay, but honestly, I don't think that it's going

01:13:12 ◼   ► to be too... I'll get used to it pretty quickly. I don't have any notifications for any

01:13:18 ◼   ► interaction on Twitter at all. If it removes the stats and activity screen from tweetbot,

01:13:22 ◼   ► I'll be really annoyed because it's two of my favorite features.

01:13:25 ◼   ► I think it'll be annoying during keynotes and stuff, right? Like the Twitter's already,

01:13:30 ◼   ► the Twitter and the video are already on sync.

01:13:33 ◼   ► Live events, yeah.

01:13:33 ◼   ► But yeah, I think day to day, like, I don't see it drastically changing the way that I use it,

01:13:39 ◼   ► personally. I don't, um, I have, you know, streaming like pin to top whatever turned on,

01:13:46 ◼   ► at least in the Mac version. I do on the Mac version, but, um, you know, I don't, I don't

01:13:54 ◼   ► think it's going to be a drastic hit just because I don't use the notifications very often. So

01:13:59 ◼   ► episode 193 of connected is where we spoke about this last time when I blocked that out completely

01:14:06 ◼   ► when the news was originally discussed. You probably blocked it out because I said a bunch

01:14:13 ◼   ► of stuff. People got upset. Well, let's talk about some more things that may upset people.

01:14:20 ◼   ► You want to take a break and we'll do this? We'll do this last topic? Yes, yes. Let's talk about our

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01:17:43 ◼   ► of this show and Relay FM.

01:17:45 ◼   ► - So we've got one last topic.

01:17:47 ◼   ► We're just gonna dive into this

01:17:48 ◼   ► because the news is a little bit old now,

01:17:50 ◼   ► but Apple removed iOS and Mac apps from its affiliate program.

01:17:55 ◼   ► So you used to be able to create a special link to the App Store and if someone bought

01:17:59 ◼   ► a $5 app, you as the link creator got a little cut of that.

01:18:05 ◼   ► Last year Apple tried to reduce that percentage and it was met with a lot of feedback, a lot

01:18:12 ◼   ► of negative feedback, but now it has gone entirely.

01:18:18 ◼   ► And that is what it is.

01:18:20 ◼   ► It's ending October 1st, so there's still six weeks, eight weeks or so of this program

01:18:26 ◼   ► left.

01:18:27 ◼   ► And after this you can still link to books and movies and TV shows.

01:18:30 ◼   ► But the App Store affiliate system made possible a whole ecosystem of websites and people comparing

01:18:40 ◼   ► apps, doing roundups, creating editorial content around the App Store.

01:18:44 ◼   ► what I really want to talk to you Myke about is this line in Apple's emails.

01:18:50 ◼   ► It was like the end of the day on August 1st and it said with the

01:18:55 ◼   ► launch of the new App Store on both iOS and Mac OS and their increased methods

01:18:59 ◼   ► of app discovery, so all that new editorial stuff that came with iOS 11

01:19:02 ◼   ► is coming to the Mac with Mojave, we will be removing apps from the affiliate

01:19:07 ◼   ► program and they go on into the details. So like just cards on the table. I've

01:19:12 ◼   ► I've been a member of the affiliate program for a long time.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Depending on what I'm doing on my site or on Twitter,

01:19:19 ◼   ► I make a little money from it each month,

01:19:21 ◼   ► but it is nowhere near the amount

01:19:25 ◼   ► that this is a big deal to me financially.

01:19:28 ◼   ► Like it's very small numbers, a handful of dollars a month.

01:19:31 ◼   ► But there are sites like Touch Arcade

01:19:34 ◼   ► who are really gonna be crippled by this,

01:19:36 ◼   ► who really like, that was a large part of their business.

01:19:38 ◼   ► And you could argue that they should have evolved

01:19:40 ◼   ► after what happened here, max stories and Federico tweeted

01:19:44 ◼   ► about it. Sean Blanc wrote a essay on the suite setup about

01:19:49 ◼   ► how they saw this coming and they started to move away from

01:19:52 ◼   ► it. And those sites max stories in the suite setup are gonna be

01:19:55 ◼   ► fine. But I really don't like that line about Oh, well, the

01:20:01 ◼   ► App Store is really great now. So we don't need all of this

01:20:06 ◼   ► like, third party content. Like, am I just like reading into this?

01:20:09 ◼   ► Am I just being sensitive or like, do you feel like that phrase has some problems in

01:20:15 ◼   ► it?

01:20:16 ◼   ► I think it's baloney, mostly.

01:20:19 ◼   ► I don't think that this is the reason.

01:20:24 ◼   ► And there are a lot of people that have given a bunch of other reasons for why Apple could

01:20:27 ◼   ► be doing this, either to stop scammy apps from trying to make money, to stop some big

01:20:31 ◼   ► apps from circumventing the 30% cut, like some of the 30% cut, by linking to each other

01:20:37 ◼   ► or linking to other apps that they own. Or maybe I don't buy this one. I think this is silly. But

01:20:42 ◼   ► to further boost services revenue, I think the amount of money this is actually going to be

01:20:45 ◼   ► it's not going to be that much for the services revenue column.

01:20:48 ◼   ► Yeah. Well, I think the flip side of that coin before you move on is some people have hope has

01:20:53 ◼   ► said hopefully, oh, this means once they recover this money, they can move from a 30% cut to a 20%

01:20:59 ◼   ► cut or something like that. Absolutely not. Good luck if you think that's going to happen. They

01:21:03 ◼   ► did it with subscriptions. That's as far as we're going. The other part that felt bad

01:21:08 ◼   ► about this was that this happened, like the day after the quarterly results, like, or

01:21:12 ◼   ► maybe the same day, like, right after Apple says, Hey, you know, we've made more than

01:21:18 ◼   ► ever this quarter than in previous quarters, and service revenue is up. And saying, Oh,

01:21:23 ◼   ► hey, you know, you you guys making, you know, some people making serious money in this system,

01:21:29 ◼   ► going away. So I think that the politics of it are really bad. The optics of it are real bad.

01:21:35 ◼   ► And you know, I don't I can't speak to like the scammy side of this. Like I'm sure there are

01:21:40 ◼   ► people cheating and like doing weird things in this but like you're punishing everybody because

01:21:47 ◼   ► there's some bad actors like if you know they're bad. All this is trackable if they're bad actors,

01:21:51 ◼   ► kick them out of the system. It's not hard like turn off their codes and let people like

01:21:57 ◼   ► like Federico and Sean and, you know, actual publishers continue to move forward.

01:22:02 ◼   ► So I don't know. I don't, I don't like it because whatever the reasons are,

01:22:08 ◼   ► and it's some blend of these and some factors I'm sure that we're not aware of.

01:22:13 ◼   ► No, I can't,

01:22:14 ◼   ► I can't come up with a reason that makes me feel okay about it. And,

01:22:19 ◼   ► and again,

01:22:20 ◼   ► this isn't being covered by the fact that all of a sudden I'm out $2,000 a month.

01:22:24 ◼   ► I'm not. Um,

01:22:26 ◼   ► but I can't come up with a reason Apple would do this that's not kind of lame.

01:22:30 ◼   ► Because the thing is, no matter what that reason actually is, what they're saying is,

01:22:37 ◼   ► the only way that we believe the apps need to be like "get promotion" is through the app store now.

01:22:47 ◼   ► We do not feel there is a requirement to incentivize people to write about iOS apps.

01:22:53 ◼   ► Because that was why it was included, right?

01:22:55 ◼   ► That was why it was there.

01:22:56 ◼   ► You have this affiliate program to either incentivize people to write about it,

01:23:00 ◼   ► for developers to link to other applications,

01:23:02 ◼   ► so it can generate more revenue going through the store,

01:23:06 ◼   ► because you get a kickback for it.

01:23:08 ◼   ► It's the same reason Amazon's affiliates...

01:23:10 ◼   ► This is why affiliate stuff exists,

01:23:12 ◼   ► because affiliate stuff exists to drive more people to the store

01:23:15 ◼   ► to make more purchases, right?

01:23:16 ◼   ► That's why this stuff exists.

01:23:18 ◼   ► That's why affiliate marketing is a thing,

01:23:20 ◼   ► because you are trying to push people through

01:23:22 ◼   ► and a lot of ways this is done is through websites and media. But Apple is saying now that with the

01:23:27 ◼   ► launch of the new App Store and increased methods of app discovery, they don't need to incentivize

01:23:32 ◼   ► people financially anymore to do this. That statement can be read as we do not believe

01:23:39 ◼   ► it is important anymore for people who write or publish about applications to receive money

01:23:46 ◼   ► for doing so as a cut. Now I find that to be mean-spirited. I don't like it.

01:23:53 ◼   ► So I will just say from what you've said, I've never personally made a cent from the affiliate

01:24:00 ◼   ► program. Like me personally. I think Real AFM has a code but I couldn't even tell you how much money

01:24:05 ◼   ► we make. It's not much. And I'll tell you because whenever I link to apps in our show notes,

01:24:10 ◼   ► it's very rare that I'll ever put an affiliate code on it just because like whatever. Like I

01:24:14 ◼   ► I just don't bother. It's not massively important to me because I never really

01:24:18 ◼   ► ever made any money on it, so I never even think about doing it.

01:24:21 ◼   ► So if it makes any financial difference to me, one,

01:24:25 ◼   ► I personally it doesn't bother me and two, I probably won't see it anyway.

01:24:29 ◼   ► So anyway.

01:24:30 ◼   ► But I just think that, you know, like what

01:24:33 ◼   ► what what is this going to do to coverage of apps in the long term?

01:24:37 ◼   ► Like I don't and like I understand what like that people are saying,

01:24:41 ◼   ► You know, like people like Sean and Federico saying that they found other ways

01:24:46 ◼   ► to combat against this.

01:24:48 ◼   ► But I think for a lot of people, there isn't one.

01:24:50 ◼   ► Because writing about technology

01:24:54 ◼   ► or applications in 2018, it's not a great way to make a lot of money.

01:24:59 ◼   ► Like it is hard to make money in that business

01:25:02 ◼   ► because advertising dollars are going to other places by and large, right?

01:25:09 ◼   ► one of those places is podcasting. A lot of the money that used to go, I believe, into web media

01:25:17 ◼   ► is moving into audio media. As someone in both worlds, I think that's absolutely

01:25:23 ◼   ► accurate. And yeah, the thing at the heart of it for me is that this community,

01:25:28 ◼   ► these people are writing, again, there may be some bad players out there,

01:25:33 ◼   ► But at least everything I've ever come across is that's good for Apple.

01:25:38 ◼   ► It's good for the App Store.

01:25:40 ◼   ► It helps consumers feel more confident about their purchases.

01:25:42 ◼   ► It drives people to discover new apps and new categories of apps that they weren't

01:25:47 ◼   ► previously aware of.

01:25:48 ◼   ► The reality is getting rid of this is not going to do anything major to App Store

01:25:53 ◼   ► download numbers because the App Store is so massive.

01:25:57 ◼   ► This is probably a relatively small drop in the bucket as far as like referrals

01:26:02 ◼   ► into the App Store.

01:26:03 ◼   ► But it's not about the raw numbers.

01:26:05 ◼   ► It's about doing right by the community.

01:26:07 ◼   ► And Apple, for all of its ups and downs, the thing that always gets me worked up

01:26:15 ◼   ► about it is Apple, Apple's community is what sustained it when it was in the dark

01:26:22 ◼   ► times, right?

01:26:23 ◼   ► There was like the loyal Mac heads who kept buying Quadras and Power Macs, even

01:26:29 ◼   ► though all their friends thought they were nuts for doing so.

01:26:32 ◼   ► And that community is not the same community that, you know, like Federico wasn't around then Mac stories wasn't a thing then. But Apple has forgotten I think how important its community can be to the company because it's it's massive. And it's well past the days of the Mac sells because people tell their friends to buy their kids and I book and then their family gets hooked. Right? Like it the company is so much larger now makes so much money. I think they've lost sight of that a little bit. And that's really what upsets me at the heart of it.

01:27:02 ◼   ► I mean, yes, it's really a bummer that like, sites like Touch Arcade are probably going to go away. That's horrible.

01:27:07 ◼   ► But if it's happening because Apple isn't willing or is unable to see that that community is still really important to its long term health, then like that, that is not, it's not great. And it just gives me like a like a sort of a weird bad feeling.

01:27:25 ◼   ► I'm not going to give Apple different treatment than I gave Microsoft, right?

01:27:29 ◼   ► Like if they've made this decision, fine, the decision is made.

01:27:33 ◼   ► I'm not asking for them to go back on it.

01:27:35 ◼   ► My concern is I wish they wouldn't have made it in the first place.

01:27:39 ◼   ► You know, it's like I wish that this wasn't the decision that they had made.

01:27:42 ◼   ► I wish that they would have paid attention to why this thing exists

01:27:48 ◼   ► and maybe tried to allocate some resources to deal with the problems

01:27:52 ◼   ► if there were some.

01:27:53 ◼   ► And if there weren't any, then what they have decided is that they don't want people writing

01:27:57 ◼   ► about apps anymore. And that is a very peculiar thing to me. Does Apple believe, or does Apple

01:28:05 ◼   ► Marketing believe that the only place that apps should be written about is in the App Store?

01:28:09 ◼   ► Are they saying that? Because their actions recently have showed that they believe it's

01:28:15 ◼   ► important for apps to be written about in the App Store, and they're doing a great job of it.

01:28:18 ◼   ► I love that thing.

01:28:20 ◼   ► But there are far fewer apps featured now

01:28:23 ◼   ► than there used to be, right?

01:28:25 ◼   ► Because they do like three stories a day

01:28:26 ◼   ► as opposed to all of the things that they used to do.

01:28:29 ◼   ► The features are better,

01:28:30 ◼   ► but I don't think that it is,

01:28:34 ◼   ► that being featured today is as good as it used to be.

01:28:37 ◼   ► I hear from many friends who actually say

01:28:38 ◼   ► that being featured today, even in those screens,

01:28:42 ◼   ► it's not as powerful as it used to be many years ago.

01:28:46 ◼   ► And so I just think to myself, what is the intention here?

01:28:50 ◼   ► What are they trying to do?

01:28:51 ◼   ► Because what they're saying, what they're being open with,

01:28:55 ◼   ► seems to indicate that they don't think

01:28:56 ◼   ► that it's important anymore.

01:28:57 ◼   ► And I disagree with that.

01:28:59 ◼   ► So it is what it is.

01:29:02 ◼   ► I think it's worth discussing.

01:29:06 ◼   ► But if this is the route that they're going to take,

01:29:08 ◼   ► I certainly hope that people will be able to adjust course

01:29:11 ◼   ► where they need to.

01:29:12 ◼   ► But Adam Angst of Tibbets called it

01:29:16 ◼   ► unnecessary, mean-spirited, and harmful. I think I pretty much agree with that summary.

01:29:21 ◼   ► Unnecessary, I don't know. Might have been necessary, I don't know. But it does feel

01:29:25 ◼   ► a little mean-spirited, it does. Especially to do this in between the time of earnings

01:29:33 ◼   ► reports and becoming a trillion dollar company on the stock market.

01:29:36 ◼   ► Yeah. That's what I mean. The optics are real bad.

01:29:40 ◼   ► Yeah, like this feels like a nickel and diming thing and I don't understand why...

01:29:48 ◼   ► Like if it was a significant amount of money that was going through the App Store then

01:29:53 ◼   ► surely they could have been able to reallocate some resources to make it better.

01:29:58 ◼   ► And if it wasn't, then why do you care?

01:30:01 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:30:02 ◼   ► What I will say is, last on this is go download Blink by the Voorhees family.

01:30:07 ◼   ► I feel so sorry for them.

01:30:08 ◼   ► They were working on an update. John, who's been on previously, he worked on an app called

01:30:12 ◼   ► Blink and he's been working on it for many years. We've mentioned it in the show a bunch.

01:30:15 ◼   ► It was an affiliate linking app. John was working on a big update. John and his son

01:30:19 ◼   ► work on a big update. They were like two days away from publishing the update and this happened,

01:30:25 ◼   ► which by and large renders the app useless if there's no affiliate linking anymore. But

01:30:32 ◼   ► What I will say, I use Blink as a way to quickly grab links for articles.

01:30:38 ◼   ► I have used Blink on my iPad, I don't even have an affiliate token in the app because

01:30:44 ◼   ► I just never bothered setting it up, but I use it as a way to like, if I'm writing something

01:30:48 ◼   ► and I need a bunch of links, like App Store links, it is a faster way to search the App

01:30:52 ◼   ► Store and then with the new swiping actions he added, copy a link to the clipboard in

01:30:56 ◼   ► the format that I want.

01:30:57 ◼   ► Blink is still really good for that and will remain to be really good for that even after

01:31:01 ◼   ► affiliate program goes away. So Blink is now free, so go try it out and if you want to

01:31:07 ◼   ► leave them a tip, you can get some alternate icons. I just feel really sorry for them because

01:31:13 ◼   ► they're my friends and it's just like the worst possible timing.

01:31:16 ◼   ► It's pretty bad. If you want to find links to stuff we talked about, including that video

01:31:21 ◼   ► of iPhone mockups and Blink and a bunch of other stuff, head over to relay.fm/connected/204.

01:31:30 ◼   ► While you're there you can get in touch via email or of course you can do that on Twitter.

01:31:34 ◼   ► Myke is I-M-Y-K-E and you can find me there as I-S-M-H. Federico who is not here is also

01:31:40 ◼   ► on Twitter V-I-T-I-C-C-I and he of course is the editor-in-chief of MaxStories.net.

01:31:45 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors for making this episode possible, Squarespace, Linode

01:31:51 ◼   ► and Inboard Technology.

01:31:53 ◼   ► Until next time Myke, say goodbye.

01:31:55 ◼   ► Oh don't forget about #RelayQA questions if you want to give us questions for our anniversary

01:32:02 ◼   ► episode #RelayQA for that. Thank you. It's an orange at the bottom of the document and I

01:32:08 ◼   ► scrolled up to get the episode number and missed it. So please ask us questions we'll be back

01:32:14 ◼   ► next week with those. Until then Myke, say goodbye. Cheerio! Adios.