Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► But we are going to do a special episode of connected connected as a show that everyone that he knows what it is

00:00:08 ◼   ► That normally has

00:00:11 ◼   ► Federico Vittucci, okay, but he could not he could not make it so we do have a very

00:00:18 ◼   ► special guest Federico's American cousin

00:00:22 ◼   ► Considering this is a mostly audio based program, we have Marco Ahmet who of us, Marco is wearing

00:00:44 ◼   ► a wig. Did you own this before the show? A few hours before the show. You look very good

00:00:51 ◼   ► though. I think I might just keep this look. I know it's not an exact match. This is the

00:00:56 ◼   ► pop icon wig. No, he's a pop icon. And it's the closest I could get to Italian superstar

00:01:03 ◼   ► Federico Fattice. These are big shoes to fill, especially in the hair department, where usually

00:01:07 ◼   ► I'm not very strong. And so this is, this really, I feel like maybe this is the new

00:01:13 ◼   ► me. It's a good you. I like this you. It's really good. Everybody, New York likes the

00:01:19 ◼   ► - Nice and you, Marco. - Yeah.

00:01:20 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:01:24 ◼   ► - Well, shall we get started?

00:01:25 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:01:26 ◼   ► - Am I gonna wear this the whole time?

00:01:27 ◼   ► - It's up to you.

00:01:28 ◼   ► You brought it on.

00:01:29 ◼   ► - There you go.

00:01:30 ◼   ► On a scale of one to 10, how itchy was that?

00:01:36 ◼   ► - A little, yeah.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Maybe three or four.

00:01:39 ◼   ► But it would've gotten to a 10 by the end of the show.

00:01:41 ◼   ► - A nightmare level of itchy?

00:01:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:01:43 ◼   ► (dramatic orchestral music)

00:01:47 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:01:50 ◼   ► Welcome to Connected episode 215.

00:01:54 ◼   ► I'm your host, Stephen Hackett,

00:01:56 ◼   ► and I am really glad to be hosting this show

00:01:59 ◼   ► live from New York.

00:02:01 ◼   ► (audience cheers)

00:02:03 ◼   ► This very special live episode is made possible

00:02:12 ◼   ► by TextExpander, PayPal, and Timing,

00:02:15 ◼   ► And I am joined on stage by my co-host

00:02:18 ◼   ► and my co-founder of Relay FM, Myke Hurley.

00:02:21 ◼   ► - Hello.

00:02:21 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:02:24 ◼   ► Thank you, New York.

00:02:25 ◼   ► - And we are joined by a very special guest,

00:02:29 ◼   ► Federico could not make it.

00:02:30 ◼   ► You know him from projects like Overcast

00:02:33 ◼   ► and Under the Radar and a show that is accidentally

00:02:36 ◼   ► not on Relay FM, Marco Arment.

00:02:38 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:02:40 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:02:45 ◼   ► Should I try to be Italian like, "Fettuccine!"

00:02:47 ◼   ► Or just be like, "Hi."

00:02:49 ◼   ► - That's what he says most of the time.

00:02:50 ◼   ► - Right, yeah.

00:02:51 ◼   ► - You got it.

00:02:52 ◼   ► - DiGiorno.

00:02:53 ◼   ► - Do you have strong feelings?

00:02:54 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:02:57 ◼   ► Well, thanks for coming everybody.

00:03:01 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:03:03 ◼   ► - I'm so sorry Federico.

00:03:04 ◼   ► The ghost of Federico will rain down.

00:03:06 ◼   ► Look at this, he'll never miss another one after this.

00:03:08 ◼   ► - That's true.

00:03:09 ◼   ► - So Marker is here, we have some fun topics,

00:03:13 ◼   ► the stuff to get into, but we have to start with...

00:03:17 ◼   ► - Shoo, follow up. - Follow up.

00:03:18 ◼   ► That really actually kinda, kinda hurt.

00:03:22 ◼   ► So we spoke on the show several times

00:03:25 ◼   ► about how some of us are struggling with the iPhone 10S

00:03:28 ◼   ► and 10S Max camera, they do some weird smoothing.

00:03:32 ◼   ► I've never looked better, but I'm not super happy with it,

00:03:36 ◼   ► with Smart HDR and some of the stuff they're doing.

00:03:38 ◼   ► And it turns out that in iOS 12.1,

00:03:42 ◼   ► I don't think it's in the beta yet, I'm not sure,

00:03:44 ◼   ► but at some point it will be.

00:03:45 ◼   ► Apple is going to be toning down some of that,

00:03:49 ◼   ► that noise reduction, some of that smoothing,

00:03:51 ◼   ► so we all look like humans again,

00:03:53 ◼   ► and not plastic crash test dummies.

00:03:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, this came from Neil I. Patel.

00:03:57 ◼   ► It was in his iPhone 10R review,

00:03:59 ◼   ► we'll talk about 10R a little bit later on,

00:04:02 ◼   ► that Apple confirmed to him that it was a bug in 12.1.

00:04:05 ◼   ► So. - There you go.

00:04:06 ◼   ► - It will be fixed when that comes out,

00:04:08 ◼   ► and I guess it will make us all sharper again.

00:04:11 ◼   ► There's a bunch of technical stuff about where it was pulling the image from, and it just

00:04:14 ◼   ► seems like basically they didn't know it was a problem and it was going to fix it.

00:04:17 ◼   ► It's interesting to me that this has been going on.

00:04:20 ◼   ► People have been talking about this for a few weeks, but they've not said anything until

00:04:23 ◼   ► now?

00:04:24 ◼   ► I mean, Apple doesn't like being...

00:04:26 ◼   ► They would eventually talk to a single journalist and let that sort of go on its own, then I

00:04:31 ◼   ► think have a big statement about it.

00:04:35 ◼   ► Sure, sure.

00:04:36 ◼   ► Anyways, so everyone's going to be happy about that, I suppose.

00:04:39 ◼   ► Myke, up next, your mysterious clear iPhone XR case,

00:04:44 ◼   ► - It's the curious case of the clear case.

00:04:46 ◼   ► - As predicted by some of us, seems to be non-existent.

00:04:51 ◼   ► - I mean, I don't know what to do about this.

00:04:54 ◼   ► It was in a press release that went to some places.

00:04:56 ◼   ► - Canada, that's not a real place.

00:04:57 ◼   ► - And that's the next stop on my personal tour.

00:05:01 ◼   ► - Nice knowing you. - Toronto, I'm looking forward to it.

00:05:04 ◼   ► And there is, so the iPhone XRs, you can pre-order them,

00:05:08 ◼   ► but there's no cases from Apple at all.

00:05:11 ◼   ► - It's really weird.

00:05:12 ◼   ► - In the store there's some OtterBox cases

00:05:14 ◼   ► and Belkin screen protectors, but that's it.

00:05:17 ◼   ► So I don't know what's going on with that.

00:05:18 ◼   ► I think clear case is the best idea for this phone.

00:05:21 ◼   ► I don't know why Apple isn't making anything.

00:05:24 ◼   ► It seems a bit strange.

00:05:25 ◼   ► I don't know if maybe it's gonna change on Friday.

00:05:27 ◼   ► - That probably isn't intentional.

00:05:29 ◼   ► Like they probably just like,

00:05:30 ◼   ► they didn't get them done in time or something.

00:05:32 ◼   ► Like I can't, 'cause like they make so much extra money

00:05:35 ◼   ► on those attachment sales.

00:05:36 ◼   ► When you buy the phone, you get accessories with it.

00:05:38 ◼   ► and everyone does that.

00:05:39 ◼   ► - And like just because it's colors

00:05:41 ◼   ► doesn't mean they wouldn't make a case

00:05:43 ◼   ► 'cause they make a big deal of the colors

00:05:44 ◼   ► of the other phones as well, right?

00:05:46 ◼   ► They're just not bright colors,

00:05:47 ◼   ► but like the gold and the silver

00:05:48 ◼   ► and the ever-changing space gray.

00:05:50 ◼   ► Like they like to, you know, they talk about that.

00:05:53 ◼   ► - Well and you know, they've been here before.

00:05:55 ◼   ► Like they've made colorful phones before,

00:05:56 ◼   ► phones that looked really great without cases before,

00:05:59 ◼   ► and they know the reality is most people

00:06:00 ◼   ► are gonna put a case on.

00:06:01 ◼   ► So if they don't have one for sale on day one,

00:06:03 ◼   ► they're just gonna lose that business to third parties.

00:06:05 ◼   ► That's why I think there's no way this is intentional.

00:06:07 ◼   ► I'm guessing we see cases pretty soon.

00:06:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, at some point.

00:06:10 ◼   ► - Maybe the AirPower team was in charge of the case.

00:06:15 ◼   ► They figured AirPower will be done.

00:06:16 ◼   ► We'll just move these people to the 10-hour case.

00:06:19 ◼   ► - To the cases.

00:06:20 ◼   ► - That's what I'm going with.

00:06:21 ◼   ► - Yup.

00:06:23 ◼   ► - Finally, we have some good news

00:06:25 ◼   ► for you Safari users out there.

00:06:28 ◼   ► I think there are probably three or four of you here.

00:06:30 ◼   ► In the new Safari--

00:06:31 ◼   ► - Why are people cheering for Safari?

00:06:34 ◼   ► - I like Safari.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Yeah, but like enough to cheer about it?

00:06:37 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:06:38 ◼   ► I don't know, like it's like a real specific glove.

00:06:39 ◼   ► Marco has a Safari tattoo.

00:06:41 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:06:44 ◼   ► It got me crazy backstage.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:06:46 ◼   ► So the new Safari technical preview,

00:06:49 ◼   ► which is like a sort of a beta fork

00:06:51 ◼   ► and stuff eventually makes it down to Safari

00:06:53 ◼   ► for us regular humans, adds a prefers color scheme

00:06:58 ◼   ► media query.

00:07:00 ◼   ► So it will basically tell the browser

00:07:03 ◼   ► the system is in dark mode, this website should load

00:07:07 ◼   ► its dark mode CSS if it has it.

00:07:12 ◼   ► And so this is what we kind of wanted,

00:07:14 ◼   ► 'cause if you're using dark mode in Mojave,

00:07:16 ◼   ► you know the second you go out on the internet,

00:07:18 ◼   ► your eyes melt from your skull.

00:07:21 ◼   ► It's like when they open the Ark of the Covenant

00:07:23 ◼   ► in Indiana Jones, face comes off,

00:07:26 ◼   ► which is like a medical condition I want no part of.

00:07:28 ◼   ► - Yep.

00:07:29 ◼   ► Is that a medical?

00:07:30 ◼   ► No, man.

00:07:32 ◼   ► It feels like it could be.

00:07:34 ◼   ► So that will be sort of an automatic thing.

00:07:36 ◼   ► So I'm looking forward to that.

00:07:38 ◼   ► I'm going to be doing it on 512, because 512 is very bright.

00:07:41 ◼   ► And I've gotten some-- actually had a listener actually send me

00:07:45 ◼   ► a CSS file saying, you don't have to do any work.

00:07:48 ◼   ► Just do this.

00:07:49 ◼   ► So I'll be--

00:07:50 ◼   ► That is someone who so badly wants it.

00:07:53 ◼   ► They're just like, I'll give it to you.

00:07:55 ◼   ► Yeah, just please.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Please.

00:07:56 ◼   ► Please.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Please.

00:07:57 ◼   ► Please use it.

00:07:58 ◼   ► Your website is very just bright.

00:08:01 ◼   ► It is of its time.

00:08:02 ◼   ► It's a long time ago.

00:08:04 ◼   ► So that's exciting.

00:08:06 ◼   ► My question is, will marco.org

00:08:08 ◼   ► be implementing a dark theme?

00:08:09 ◼   ► - Well I need to like start writing there first

00:08:12 ◼   ► before anybody, like right now no one's really visiting it

00:08:16 ◼   ► because even I'm not visiting it.

00:08:18 ◼   ► So once that changes, maybe.

00:08:21 ◼   ► - But you always write these like longer pieces

00:08:23 ◼   ► and by the end of it we'd all be blind.

00:08:26 ◼   ► - Yeah, well most people are reading on their iPhone anyway.

00:08:28 ◼   ► We all know that's true.

00:08:29 ◼   ► - Maybe a listener will submit some CSS to you.

00:08:32 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:08:33 ◼   ► - They don't have to do anything.

00:08:34 ◼   ► - I have to remember how to update.

00:08:34 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:08:37 ◼   ► - Do either of you guys use Doc Mode?

00:08:38 ◼   ► Do you use Doc Mode on your mic?

00:08:40 ◼   ► - No, I don't at all.

00:08:41 ◼   ► I tried it for like 10 minutes

00:08:42 ◼   ► and I just didn't like the way the system stuff looked.

00:08:45 ◼   ► Even without the webpage issue, which is a big issue,

00:08:48 ◼   ► but even without that, like I just,

00:08:49 ◼   ► I didn't like how like Finder Windows and Mail

00:08:52 ◼   ► and everything, I just didn't like how any of them looked.

00:08:54 ◼   ► - You?

00:08:55 ◼   ► - I'm not using it either.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I used it in the beta for a while

00:08:58 ◼   ► but I just kinda came to a point where it's like,

00:09:00 ◼   ► I just don't like this.

00:09:01 ◼   ► And I'll have other problems with the interface,

00:09:03 ◼   ► like the appearance manager stuff,

00:09:05 ◼   ► like the transparency, all that's wrong.

00:09:08 ◼   ► I do really miss that I can't have a dark menu bar

00:09:10 ◼   ► and dock in light mode everywhere else,

00:09:13 ◼   ► and I haven't found a way to trick the system

00:09:15 ◼   ► into doing that.

00:09:16 ◼   ► But yeah, so I'm in light mode.

00:09:18 ◼   ► I don't love it, but dark mode,

00:09:21 ◼   ► I thought it was gonna be for me,

00:09:24 ◼   ► but something about the contrast or something,

00:09:26 ◼   ► really I get lost like I kind of where'd that window go it's all like muddy and

00:09:31 ◼   ► yeah not for me no I don't have any Mojave Macs so still run a snow leopard I wish I was

00:09:38 ◼   ► it's a good I can hook you up with a installer CD later I brought it with me

00:09:44 ◼   ► I brought it's in my go pack great great market installs all right let's take our

00:09:49 ◼   ► first break and thank our friends over at TexExpander for their support of this

00:09:53 ◼   ► show, TextExpander helps you communicate smarter. You can create snippets for the things that

00:09:57 ◼   ► you type or copy and paste all the time. You can create snippets for short things that

00:10:02 ◼   ► you type, such as email addresses or website addresses or even today's date formatted in

00:10:06 ◼   ► a way that may be pleasing to your American cousins. Or maybe you can make snippets for

00:10:11 ◼   ► the longer things that you type out more frequently, such as directions to the location, maybe

00:10:15 ◼   ► some answers to common questions that you get for support email. And also, the TextExpander

00:10:20 ◼   ► blog has loads of great ideas that you can just go and check out and get some inspiration

00:10:24 ◼   ► there as well. Snippets can be summoned in any app on the Mac, Windows, iPhone and iPad.

00:10:28 ◼   ► There's a keyboard that you can install which is really awesome. You just use a short abbreviation

00:10:33 ◼   ► or use a hotkey as you type. You can even personalize your responses using fill-in fields.

00:10:37 ◼   ► Then share your snippets with the whole team to power everyone's productivity. We use a

00:10:41 ◼   ► few of these shared ones at Relay FM like so we have filing structures and contracts

00:10:46 ◼   ► that have to be filed. So Carrie who works with us, she created this incredible snippet

00:10:51 ◼   ► which has the exact file format that she wants because I'm terrible at naming things. It's

00:10:56 ◼   ► like contract one 2018. So Carrie was like we can't deal with this anymore so she created

00:11:01 ◼   ► a wonderful snippet with a bunch of drop downs and really great fields and check boxes and

00:11:05 ◼   ► stuff and that was all done right with TextExpander. You can go to textexpander.com/podcast right

00:11:12 ◼   ► now to get 20% off your first year of a subscription with TextExpander. That is textexpander.com/podcast

00:11:18 ◼   ► for 20% off your first year. Our thanks to TextExpander from Smile for their support

00:11:22 ◼   ► of this show and Relay FM.

00:11:29 ◼   ► So we are recording this episode sort of in a weird time to be in the Apple world because

00:11:35 ◼   ► there's a new phone coming out tomorrow.

00:11:38 ◼   ► And an event next week.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and an event next week.

00:11:40 ◼   ► - It's very peculiar.

00:11:41 ◼   ► - When we were planning this tour,

00:11:43 ◼   ► there was a lot of stress around like,

00:11:45 ◼   ► okay, if Apple does a follow event,

00:11:47 ◼   ► if they do it the week before,

00:11:48 ◼   ► we have a lot of stuff to talk about.

00:11:50 ◼   ► If it's the week of, we're all gonna die.

00:11:52 ◼   ► If it's the week after, it's like, you know,

00:11:54 ◼   ► so like really, we had three versions of this.

00:11:56 ◼   ► But the 10R-- - Best timeline,

00:11:57 ◼   ► we're on the best timeline. - We're on the best timeline.

00:12:00 ◼   ► But the, at least in podcast world,

00:12:02 ◼   ► I don't know about the rest of the world.

00:12:04 ◼   ► - Oh, come on.

00:12:05 ◼   ► - But the 10R, (laughing)

00:12:07 ◼   ► 10R is shipping tomorrow,

00:12:09 ◼   ► can pick it up in stores tomorrow if you're so inclined. So reviews are out. We've all

00:12:13 ◼   ► been poring over them because it's a really interesting phone. It's a new strategy from

00:12:17 ◼   ► Apple and their smartphone lineup. And I thought we could talk a little bit about it. Obviously

00:12:23 ◼   ► this is not super informed because none of us have them. Nope. But we've read a lot of

00:12:29 ◼   ► them. Not yet anyway. Not yet. Are you going to buy a XR? We'll see. We'll see. That's

00:12:32 ◼   ► later in the doc. I'm sorry. Sorry. How many phones are you going to buy this month? Don't

00:12:36 ◼   ► worry about it. It's fine. It's totally fine. Two iPads, gonna get those, probably.

00:12:42 ◼   ► Seven phones. I've got a Pixel. You gotta get a Recolor. Let's talk about that layer. This is when we

00:12:46 ◼   ► pass the plates to the audience. Take up an offering. So the display, of course, is

00:12:55 ◼   ► the big story here. It is the same pixel density that Apple's been at for a long

00:13:01 ◼   ► time but there are more of them so it's just like it's the same display that was

00:13:06 ◼   ► in the iPhone what was it the four and then it got bigger with the five and

00:13:11 ◼   ► bigger with the six and the seven the seven like the same density so it's just

00:13:14 ◼   ► a very familiar panel for any of us who looked at iPhones for the last couple

00:13:18 ◼   ► years there's probably most people listening to this I would hope that'd be

00:13:22 ◼   ► weird it's all Motorola fans out there we love we love our Android friends too

00:13:28 ◼   ► that's perfectly fine. I'm just saying it's a common... They're like a little bit lower tier though, let's be honest.

00:13:32 ◼   ► I'm not getting involved in it. I would like to say that the markers used do not represent delivery.

00:13:38 ◼   ► You're saying you see that green bubble and you don't think like, "aw man."

00:13:42 ◼   ► You can email feedback

00:13:46 ◼   ► to Caseyless.

00:13:50 ◼   ► He loves email.

00:13:54 ◼   ► So the display is familiar and I think that's good.

00:13:57 ◼   ► I think it means that we can talk about this display

00:14:00 ◼   ► without sort of wondering what it's like

00:14:01 ◼   ► because it's one that we all know.

00:14:03 ◼   ► And I guess the question is, do we think that

00:14:07 ◼   ► that plus the OLED LCD difference is worth $250

00:14:10 ◼   ► to most people or to us?

00:14:12 ◼   ► - This was a really great point that Nilay Patel made

00:14:14 ◼   ► in his review on The Verge where he basically started off

00:14:16 ◼   ► it's like well, the difference is that there is a difference

00:14:19 ◼   ► but is it $250 of difference?

00:14:22 ◼   ► So Marco, is that worth it to you?

00:14:25 ◼   ► We're all gonna do this, I'm not just singling them out.

00:14:27 ◼   ► But do you think that, are you comfortable

00:14:30 ◼   ► with that price difference personally

00:14:33 ◼   ► for an OLED screen over an LCD screen

00:14:35 ◼   ► when this is probably the best LCD screen they've ever made

00:14:38 ◼   ► and we all were very, very, no one had problems

00:14:40 ◼   ► with the LCD screen in the iPhone before.

00:14:42 ◼   ► We weren't all like, OLED would be nice,

00:14:44 ◼   ► but we weren't like, ah, this is terrible.

00:14:46 ◼   ► So to you, is the difference that the OLED screen gives

00:14:50 ◼   ► worth that extra money?

00:14:53 ◼   ► - I think it's a little hard to compare

00:14:54 ◼   ► because we're not exactly comparing apples and oranges,

00:14:57 ◼   ► or apples and apples here, you know, it's, sorry, yeah.

00:15:00 ◼   ► All these fruit jokes, all right, so,

00:15:01 ◼   ► like, we're not comparing the same thing

00:15:03 ◼   ► because like, if the option is like,

00:15:04 ◼   ► you can either have the X, I'm just gonna say X,

00:15:07 ◼   ► you can either have the XR or the XS,

00:15:10 ◼   ► but they're not the same in every other way.

00:15:11 ◼   ► There's other differences, some of which are substantial.

00:15:14 ◼   ► So if you just, if the issue is you can get

00:15:16 ◼   ► the exact same phone, everything else is the same,

00:15:19 ◼   ► One has OLED, one doesn't, $250.

00:15:22 ◼   ► If I had never had an OLED phone,

00:15:25 ◼   ► like last year when none of us had the X yet,

00:15:27 ◼   ► when that was brand new, I would have said yes.

00:15:30 ◼   ► That is worth it because OLED sounds really amazing.

00:15:33 ◼   ► I'd love to see those deep blacks.

00:15:35 ◼   ► I'd love to have the massive battery consumption reduction

00:15:37 ◼   ► and everything.

00:15:38 ◼   ► In practice, now that I've had the X for a year,

00:15:42 ◼   ► the battery difference really hasn't panned out

00:15:44 ◼   ► the way we thought it would, I don't think.

00:15:45 ◼   ► Like the X has good battery life, but like so did the 7.

00:15:48 ◼   ► So I don't think, and so did the eight,

00:15:51 ◼   ► I don't think OLED was as big of a battery saver

00:15:54 ◼   ► as we thought it would be.

00:15:55 ◼   ► And most of the content I look at on my phone is light.

00:16:00 ◼   ► It's Instagram timelines, it's mail, it's web browsing.

00:16:04 ◼   ► Even like in Overcast, it was a light theme.

00:16:06 ◼   ► It's driving directions.

00:16:08 ◼   ► So most of what I'm looking at is light anyway.

00:16:11 ◼   ► So I don't think OLED has actually been as big of a deal

00:16:15 ◼   ► as I wanted it to be.

00:16:17 ◼   ► - Especially when Apple aren't taking advantage

00:16:19 ◼   ► of some of the things you can do with an OLED display,

00:16:22 ◼   ► like always on functionality.

00:16:24 ◼   ► - Right, like if there was other stuff like that

00:16:25 ◼   ► beyond just like this display looks really awesome

00:16:28 ◼   ► when you're displaying dark stuff,

00:16:30 ◼   ► if there were other features, other differences

00:16:33 ◼   ► that are functional differences,

00:16:34 ◼   ► or if the battery life difference was really big,

00:16:36 ◼   ► then yeah, I think it'd be worth it.

00:16:38 ◼   ► - Especially if the XR has better battery life.

00:16:40 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:16:41 ◼   ► - Right, so.

00:16:42 ◼   ► - But like the way, when presenting

00:16:43 ◼   ► with the actual comparison we have here,

00:16:45 ◼   ► where it's just like, well here's the XR,

00:16:47 ◼   ► with a really good LCD screen,

00:16:48 ◼   ► and here's the XS with a really good OLED screen,

00:16:53 ◼   ► I wouldn't get the XS on that factor alone.

00:16:56 ◼   ► - Okay, what about you, Steven?

00:16:58 ◼   ► - I agree with all that.

00:17:00 ◼   ► I think out of the differences between the XR and the XS,

00:17:04 ◼   ► I feel like the screen is the least important.

00:17:06 ◼   ► I think people would care more about

00:17:08 ◼   ► something like the camera than the display.

00:17:11 ◼   ► At least I'm trying to think out in the world.

00:17:14 ◼   ► 'Cause I think most people,

00:17:16 ◼   ► I think the camera may be one of the single biggest reasons

00:17:21 ◼   ► people upgrade iPhones every two or three years.

00:17:25 ◼   ► I think the camera's a big driver of that.

00:17:27 ◼   ► And even though the wide angle's the same,

00:17:29 ◼   ► I think there will be people who do the XS

00:17:31 ◼   ► just for the camera, not thinking about the display

00:17:34 ◼   ► or the battery life.

00:17:35 ◼   ► Which like the XR and the X Max are on pretty

00:17:37 ◼   ► even footing battery life-wise it seems like,

00:17:39 ◼   ► at least according to Apple's numbers,

00:17:40 ◼   ► and I think the early reviews paint that out.

00:17:43 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:17:44 ◼   ► I think for me, I'd be fine going back to an LCD.

00:17:48 ◼   ► I think for the reasons Marco said,

00:17:49 ◼   ► like it's nice but I don't really benefit from it

00:17:52 ◼   ► in any way and so if, for me, the screen is not

00:17:57 ◼   ► the reason I'm ignoring the 10 hour or avoiding it

00:18:00 ◼   ► as a purchase, if that makes sense.

00:18:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think probably the most important thing

00:18:05 ◼   ► about the 10 lines screen is the way, the shape of it.

00:18:09 ◼   ► - Right. - Right?

00:18:10 ◼   ► Like having it go to the edges.

00:18:14 ◼   ► whether you love it or hate it, the notch is like,

00:18:16 ◼   ► it's a big thing.

00:18:17 ◼   ► I love the way these phones look.

00:18:19 ◼   ► Like I love the fact that there is as much screen

00:18:22 ◼   ► as they can physically get on it

00:18:23 ◼   ► and still give me the functionality.

00:18:25 ◼   ► Like so that's kind of where I think the XR

00:18:28 ◼   ► is obviously closer to the XS for a lot of people

00:18:32 ◼   ► than the 8 was to the X.

00:18:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, the 8 looked old out of the gate.

00:18:38 ◼   ► - Yeah, the thing was never like,

00:18:40 ◼   ► well, the 8 has an LCD and the X has an OLED.

00:18:43 ◼   ► It was like, well, look how much bigger and nicer,

00:18:46 ◼   ► because it shaped, interestingly, that screen is.

00:18:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I think I've been showing on the show

00:18:50 ◼   ► my spouse's phone system failure.

00:18:55 ◼   ► She had an SE, and I sort of,

00:19:00 ◼   ► I don't wanna say I forced the 10,

00:19:02 ◼   ► but I was like, hey, I set this up for you

00:19:04 ◼   ► with all your stuff, maybe you should check this out.

00:19:06 ◼   ► Your SIM card's already in it.

00:19:07 ◼   ► - I was like--

00:19:08 ◼   ► - I was like, I need your Apple Watch for an hour.

00:19:10 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:19:11 ◼   ► Don't ask why it's unpairing, it's weird.

00:19:13 ◼   ► And so she tried the 10 because again,

00:19:16 ◼   ► the camera was sort of the impetus in our household

00:19:20 ◼   ► that she wanted the better camera.

00:19:21 ◼   ► And so she didn't like the 10 for a bunch of reasons.

00:19:24 ◼   ► And so we settled on an eight.

00:19:26 ◼   ► So I picked her an eight up before I left town

00:19:28 ◼   ► to come do this and I was setting it up.

00:19:30 ◼   ► And so I moved her from the SE to the 10 to the eight.

00:19:32 ◼   ► And so spending time with phones from very different eras,

00:19:37 ◼   ► I was immediately taken aback with my reaction

00:19:41 ◼   ► of the 8, which is like, it's a great phone.

00:19:43 ◼   ► Like I still recommend it to a lot of people.

00:19:46 ◼   ► If you need, if you want like a mid price iPhone,

00:19:49 ◼   ► the 8's the way to go still.

00:19:50 ◼   ► But like I picture that one's like, oh man,

00:19:53 ◼   ► like the bezels and the forehead and the touch ID,

00:19:56 ◼   ► like all this, I was like, this feels way older than it is.

00:20:00 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:20:01 ◼   ► - And like, that's sort of Apple's trick, right?

00:20:03 ◼   ► Like Apple does that and the 10, 10R, 10S

00:20:07 ◼   ► are all benefiting from that still.

00:20:09 ◼   ► There will be a point where this doesn't feel new anymore,

00:20:11 ◼   ► but I don't think we're there yet.

00:20:12 ◼   ► - No, we're not.

00:20:13 ◼   ► And I think one of the reasons that that stuff

00:20:15 ◼   ► does feel older is because the rest of the market

00:20:18 ◼   ► has changed, which is not always typical, right?

00:20:22 ◼   ► Like that maybe Apple's moved on and some are catching up

00:20:25 ◼   ► or some have moved on and Apple hasn't.

00:20:27 ◼   ► But like all flagship phones now have as much screen

00:20:31 ◼   ► as they can fit within reason.

00:20:32 ◼   ► - Well, and companies, honestly, Samsung beat Apple to it.

00:20:36 ◼   ► - They did, multiple years ago.

00:20:37 ◼   ► - They had, they were doing edge to edge stuff

00:20:39 ◼   ► for a long time that made the iPhone look old.

00:20:41 ◼   ► So it's been the way the market has been moving

00:20:45 ◼   ► and phones like the 8, you know the 8's kinda got

00:20:48 ◼   ► a bad rap because it had to live in the 10 shadow

00:20:52 ◼   ► and I think it got overlooked by a lot of us

00:20:53 ◼   ► in the tech press because it really is good.

00:20:56 ◼   ► I mean it is, it's the 10R, 10S debate to a degree

00:21:00 ◼   ► because it has most of the same specs.

00:21:02 ◼   ► But--

00:21:03 ◼   ► - Right, but it's more of what you know.

00:21:04 ◼   ► - And that's why she wanted it.

00:21:05 ◼   ► She wanted something that was more familiar.

00:21:07 ◼   ► - So you both mentioned the camera

00:21:09 ◼   ► as like important parts of the difference.

00:21:11 ◼   ► And so there are some differences

00:21:14 ◼   ► between the XR and the other 10 phones.

00:21:17 ◼   ► So it has one camera, right?

00:21:18 ◼   ► So that makes some differences.

00:21:19 ◼   ► The biggest is maybe in the portrait mode photos,

00:21:23 ◼   ► but there are actually some good and some bad.

00:21:25 ◼   ► So there is no telephoto lens,

00:21:27 ◼   ► so you can get more in the picture.

00:21:29 ◼   ► So the portrait mode that is on any phone

00:21:32 ◼   ► that has two lenses on it, it uses the telephoto lens.

00:21:35 ◼   ► so it's closer to you, the portrait is closer.

00:21:37 ◼   ► So on the XR, you can actually get more of the background

00:21:40 ◼   ► when you're in the portrait mode,

00:21:41 ◼   ► but it's all done in software,

00:21:43 ◼   ► so it can look worse in places,

00:21:45 ◼   ► because the additional data that the two lenses provide

00:21:48 ◼   ► on the other phones can make for better pictures.

00:21:51 ◼   ► But also interestingly,

00:21:52 ◼   ► because it's using the regular sensor,

00:21:56 ◼   ► the wide angle sensor,

00:21:57 ◼   ► on the XR, low light performance in portrait mode

00:22:01 ◼   ► is vastly better.

00:22:03 ◼   ► So Marco, I'm assuming you maybe don't take

00:22:08 ◼   ► a ton of portrait photos?

00:22:10 ◼   ► - Almost zero.

00:22:11 ◼   ► - Why is that?

00:22:12 ◼   ► Is it purely because you don't like the software look

00:22:15 ◼   ► or do you not like Apple's implementation?

00:22:17 ◼   ► What is it about that that's just not for you?

00:22:19 ◼   ► - Both, I mean, I don't like fake blur.

00:22:23 ◼   ► It does look different from real actual

00:22:26 ◼   ► depth of field blur from actual optics.

00:22:28 ◼   ► It doesn't look nearly as good.

00:22:30 ◼   ► And among all the phones that do it,

00:22:33 ◼   ► Apple seems to have the worst algorithms for it.

00:22:35 ◼   ► I think the Google line has shown over the last couple

00:22:38 ◼   ► of years that they're just better at this.

00:22:40 ◼   ► And Apple's always able to show off a few shots

00:22:44 ◼   ► that look really good, and then when you get the phone

00:22:46 ◼   ► and you try it, half your shots that you try with it,

00:22:50 ◼   ► someone's ear is blurred off.

00:22:52 ◼   ► - Or their glasses is super typical.

00:22:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, or they have their hand on their waist,

00:22:59 ◼   ► so they have this little triangle in between their arm

00:23:02 ◼   ► their stomach and that triangle is super sharp in the background and the rest of them is

00:23:06 ◼   ► not like I do often stand like that like I'm some sort of Mac superhero like it just it

00:23:11 ◼   ► seems like the Apple portrait algorithm just fails so often in such common ways that it's

00:23:16 ◼   ► it's kind of like Siri where like once like once once I try it and it fails a certain

00:23:21 ◼   ► number of times I just kind of stop trying it because like I'm just I just don't want

00:23:24 ◼   ► to fail anymore so I just kind of I tried it and I stopped and then when I got the 10s

00:23:29 ◼   ► I tried it there too, and it didn't work there

00:23:31 ◼   ► very well so far either.

00:23:33 ◼   ► I got like one good shot out of it

00:23:35 ◼   ► that I posted to Instagram.

00:23:36 ◼   ► And then, and that was it.

00:23:38 ◼   ► Everything else had been weird.

00:23:39 ◼   ► So I don't really use the portrait feature,

00:23:42 ◼   ► which is why like I shouldn't be as much of a fan

00:23:45 ◼   ► of the 2X camera as I am.

00:23:47 ◼   ► I also, whenever I do use the 2X camera,

00:23:51 ◼   ► or I'm in a situation where I might use the 2X camera,

00:23:54 ◼   ► the fact that it's not as good of a camera

00:23:56 ◼   ► is actually very apparent,

00:23:58 ◼   ► especially with the XS, I believe the telephoto camera

00:24:02 ◼   ► was unchanged from the X.

00:24:04 ◼   ► So with the X, you had the wide angle and the telephoto,

00:24:06 ◼   ► and the telephoto was a little bit worse than the wide angle.

00:24:10 ◼   ► With the XS, the telephoto stayed the same.

00:24:12 ◼   ► The wide angle got way better.

00:24:14 ◼   ► So now, the telephoto on the XS is way worse

00:24:17 ◼   ► than the wide angle is, because the wide angle

00:24:19 ◼   ► got so much better.

00:24:21 ◼   ► And so I find myself trying out the telephoto

00:24:24 ◼   ► in certain situations, seeing how much worse it looks,

00:24:27 ◼   ► and then just switching back to the wide anyway.

00:24:29 ◼   ► So I'm actually using the telephoto lens

00:24:32 ◼   ► less and less over time,

00:24:34 ◼   ► and way less than I thought I would,

00:24:36 ◼   ► which is why the XR not having one

00:24:39 ◼   ► is actually not a huge deal for me.

00:24:42 ◼   ► And if I were buying one of these phones today,

00:24:46 ◼   ► I would seriously consider the XR.

00:24:48 ◼   ► - Is that from, I mean I guess

00:24:50 ◼   ► 'cause there are other advantages to it,

00:24:51 ◼   ► but like the, you've been a not fan of bigger phones,

00:24:57 ◼   ► it is bigger, does that amount?

00:24:59 ◼   ► - It is bigger, but it is between the two sizes.

00:25:03 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:25:04 ◼   ► - So, and like, so, you know, everything,

00:25:05 ◼   ► I think the screen, the screen size

00:25:07 ◼   ► has the same point resolution as the Max, right?

00:25:10 ◼   ► - It does, yeah.

00:25:11 ◼   ► - But it's just a slightly smaller screen.

00:25:12 ◼   ► So everything looks a little bit smaller,

00:25:13 ◼   ► so it is, it's like a nice in-between size physically,

00:25:17 ◼   ► but screen real estate-wise, you have all the real estate

00:25:19 ◼   ► of the big phone.

00:25:20 ◼   ► That is kind of interesting to me.

00:25:23 ◼   ► Again, I don't think it's enough to make me, like,

00:25:25 ◼   ► sell my month old 10S or whatever.

00:25:28 ◼   ► - Sure, sure.

00:25:29 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:25:31 ◼   ► - But if these come out at the exact same time,

00:25:34 ◼   ► I would have had a tough decision.

00:25:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay, I can see that.

00:25:39 ◼   ► 'Cause I was gonna say like,

00:25:41 ◼   ► do you not always go to the very tippy top of the line,

00:25:44 ◼   ► but you don't because the max is that, right?

00:25:47 ◼   ► Like it's got more of some stuff

00:25:49 ◼   ► and it's the most expensive,

00:25:50 ◼   ► but that isn't necessarily where you go.

00:25:53 ◼   ► even when the plus phones actually had a lot more features.

00:25:56 ◼   ► - Exactly, and like, you know,

00:25:58 ◼   ► as we talked about earlier with OLED,

00:25:59 ◼   ► like I would have thought that I would have definitely

00:26:02 ◼   ► gone with the high-end one

00:26:03 ◼   ► if I had never had these featured before.

00:26:05 ◼   ► If I had never had the telephoto lens,

00:26:06 ◼   ► if I had never had an OLED screen,

00:26:08 ◼   ► I would have gone for that thinking

00:26:09 ◼   ► it would be a huge difference

00:26:10 ◼   ► I would actually value quite a lot.

00:26:12 ◼   ► But now that I'm seeing real world situations

00:26:14 ◼   ► of the telephoto lens and of the OLED screen,

00:26:16 ◼   ► I'm realizing, yeah, actually,

00:26:17 ◼   ► I probably didn't need these things.

00:26:19 ◼   ► - And those colors.

00:26:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, they come in really good colors.

00:26:23 ◼   ► They look really good.

00:26:24 ◼   ► - I really want the red one.

00:26:25 ◼   ► - Yeah, the red's interesting too,

00:26:27 ◼   ► 'cause it's the only color we had before.

00:26:28 ◼   ► 'Cause the red 10R seems like it's basically

00:26:31 ◼   ► the product red eight.

00:26:32 ◼   ► Like as far as color and sort of finish.

00:26:35 ◼   ► You know, for me, I thought about the 10R

00:26:39 ◼   ► for a little while thinking that, okay,

00:26:41 ◼   ► everybody I work with, podcast or tech people,

00:26:44 ◼   ► are gonna do the 10S or the Max.

00:26:46 ◼   ► And I thought it'd be interesting to have

00:26:48 ◼   ► the point of view of a 10R user.

00:26:50 ◼   ► But I do use a telephoto lens.

00:26:52 ◼   ► I agree with you that the difference is more noticeable now.

00:26:56 ◼   ► It totally is.

00:26:57 ◼   ► But there are sometimes I can get a shot

00:26:59 ◼   ► of one of my kids doing something or something funny

00:27:02 ◼   ► or you know like, I don't know, some sort of wildlife.

00:27:05 ◼   ► I don't know, like somewhere where I can be--

00:27:07 ◼   ► - Wildlife?

00:27:08 ◼   ► - You have a funny wildlife scene?

00:27:08 ◼   ► - I live in Tennessee.

00:27:09 ◼   ► - It's like-- - Okay.

00:27:10 ◼   ► - It's full of funny wildlife.

00:27:11 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:27:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, have you ever seen armadillo?

00:27:13 ◼   ► They're hilarious.

00:27:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:16 ◼   ► Good little, anyways.

00:27:18 ◼   ► So I like the options it gives me.

00:27:20 ◼   ► I will use the wide angle if that

00:27:22 ◼   ► will work for the situation.

00:27:24 ◼   ► But I like having the option.

00:27:26 ◼   ► And so yeah, I went with the Max.

00:27:29 ◼   ► And I'm happy with it.

00:27:30 ◼   ► I'm not going to change over.

00:27:32 ◼   ► You mentioned being happy.

00:27:34 ◼   ► I like being happy.

00:27:36 ◼   ► We like to talk about happy things in the show.

00:27:38 ◼   ► We have a happy arm and to layer on.

00:27:41 ◼   ► But for now, thinking about these phones

00:27:43 ◼   ► and comparing them, Stephen had the idea earlier.

00:27:45 ◼   ► why don't we each pick a phone that made us the happiest?

00:27:49 ◼   ► Which iPhone over its history made us the happiest?

00:27:53 ◼   ► - But the idea is it made you the happiest

00:27:55 ◼   ► when it was new.

00:27:57 ◼   ► So like, because that factors out,

00:27:59 ◼   ► like what I would do is like, well,

00:28:00 ◼   ► this one would be happy,

00:28:01 ◼   ► but this one's more like historically important.

00:28:03 ◼   ► I can sound smart, so I'll pick that.

00:28:05 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:28:09 ◼   ► Please subscribe to my YouTube channel.

00:28:11 ◼   ► But, so something that like we were just happy

00:28:14 ◼   ► with out of the gate.

00:28:15 ◼   ► So Myke, do you wanna go first?

00:28:17 ◼   ► - The iPhone 3G, I got up at 5 a.m. to go get that phone.

00:28:22 ◼   ► I waited in line in the cold, right?

00:28:25 ◼   ► So this is the second iPhone.

00:28:27 ◼   ► I had an original iPhone.

00:28:28 ◼   ► - Right.

00:28:29 ◼   ► - But the iPhone 3G, I mean, it came with the App Store,

00:28:34 ◼   ► and I know that they came at the same time,

00:28:36 ◼   ► but like, I remember getting my iPhone 3G

00:28:39 ◼   ► and setting up the App Store

00:28:40 ◼   ► and downloading like Super Monkey Ball.

00:28:42 ◼   ► And like, it was--

00:28:43 ◼   ► - It's everyone's first app.

00:28:44 ◼   ► - Incredible, right?

00:28:45 ◼   ► Like, it was so excited.

00:28:47 ◼   ► Like, I remember vividly like standing outside

00:28:50 ◼   ► an O2 store, which is a carrier in England.

00:28:53 ◼   ► 'Cause at first, they were the only place

00:28:55 ◼   ► you could get them, right?

00:28:57 ◼   ► Like, we had one carrier, like AT&T, right?

00:29:01 ◼   ► So you had to go to one of their stores.

00:29:03 ◼   ► And so I remember waiting outside,

00:29:05 ◼   ► and there was like a couple of people there,

00:29:07 ◼   ► and the line grew, and nobody knew how many

00:29:09 ◼   ► the store was gonna have, right?

00:29:11 ◼   ► So it was like, will there be two?

00:29:13 ◼   ► 'cause it was like that, so then, right?

00:29:15 ◼   ► Like you had no idea if the store would have

00:29:18 ◼   ► like a small handful of them.

00:29:20 ◼   ► And it also had GPS.

00:29:23 ◼   ► And I was leaving later on that afternoon

00:29:26 ◼   ► for my first kind of like trip without my parents,

00:29:30 ◼   ► and was going to Paris.

00:29:31 ◼   ► And the idea, and it worked out,

00:29:33 ◼   ► having GPS with the maps was awesome

00:29:36 ◼   ► because before you had to just kind of work it out

00:29:38 ◼   ► on your own, right?

00:29:39 ◼   ► Like, I guess I can read maps now or at least try.

00:29:42 ◼   ► And so like that phone, like thinking back to it, like it hit at just the right time.

00:29:47 ◼   ► It came with a bunch of incredible enhancements, like the beginning of the app store, right?

00:29:53 ◼   ► Like having a phone that was just what Apple gave you for so long, and then it had all this other stuff to it.

00:29:58 ◼   ► And it hit me at a time when like I was like saving for an entire year to get it.

00:30:04 ◼   ► Like it was just kind of like the perfect thing.

00:30:07 ◼   ► And it came in, did it come in two colors?

00:30:10 ◼   ► It came in black, and I believe the larger size you get in white, but just the larger

00:30:15 ◼   ► capacity.

00:30:16 ◼   ► I've probably got the white.

00:30:17 ◼   ► I think I got the white one.

00:30:18 ◼   ► I've got 3GS in white, and it looks good.

00:30:20 ◼   ► And it's the only iPhone that I kept for a couple of years.

00:30:24 ◼   ► I didn't get the 3GS.

00:30:25 ◼   ► I love my 3G.

00:30:26 ◼   ► It was great.

00:30:27 ◼   ► Rocking that original processor.

00:30:29 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:30:30 ◼   ► No video.

00:30:31 ◼   ► Yep.

00:30:32 ◼   ► What about you, Marco?

00:30:33 ◼   ► I really...

00:30:35 ◼   ► The iPhone 4 holds a special place in my heart, because I loved Retina, but I think the one

00:30:39 ◼   ► that was kind of the most mind-blowing for me that kind of gave me that like

00:30:44 ◼   ► satisfaction like this is amazing is the iPhone 5 I don't think it gets a lot of

00:30:48 ◼   ► credit like historically because it wasn't that important really like for a

00:30:52 ◼   ► lot of the stuff but at the time like that was the first screen size change

00:30:55 ◼   ► and the screen just seemed massive which is hilarious now when you look at the SE

00:30:59 ◼   ► like it now looks like a skyscraper I know right but like I can fit one more

00:31:04 ◼   ► email on screen. I think it grew by like 88 points or something like that. So it was like

00:31:09 ◼   ► one table row, it was very small. But it was a big deal at the time.

00:31:15 ◼   ► We got like an extra row of apps on the home screen as well.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:31:18 ◼   ► I remember when they announced it, it was like on, I remember these things, it was on

00:31:22 ◼   ► a pedestal and they spin it around and I freaked out when I saw there was an extra app. I was

00:31:27 ◼   ► like, "Yes! Home screen editions!"

00:31:29 ◼   ► Yeah, because the first screen size change really changed a lot about iOS and it was

00:31:33 ◼   ► It was pretty easy for apps to adopt also,

00:31:35 ◼   ► so it wasn't, he didn't have a long time

00:31:37 ◼   ► or nothing was made for it.

00:31:38 ◼   ► And it also just felt really good in your hand.

00:31:44 ◼   ► It was the first one that had the all metal design.

00:31:46 ◼   ► Like you had the plastic ones first,

00:31:47 ◼   ► well the metal plastic, then the plastic,

00:31:49 ◼   ► then the 4 series had the glass backs,

00:31:51 ◼   ► and this one had that metal back.

00:31:52 ◼   ► So not only did it feel really smooth all the way around,

00:31:55 ◼   ► it also, if you remember, it felt impossibly light.

00:31:59 ◼   ► Like, 'cause the 4 having double glass,

00:32:01 ◼   ► that actually was pretty dense, pretty heavy.

00:32:03 ◼   ► The 5 was a bigger phone that actually was noticeably slimmer and felt really light in

00:32:08 ◼   ► your hand.

00:32:09 ◼   ► It was the first space grey too, right?

00:32:10 ◼   ► Well, that was the black one.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Black, black, black.

00:32:12 ◼   ► And the 5s looked way better, but with the actual grey and everything.

00:32:15 ◼   ► But the 5, for the actual transition, it was also the first LTE phone.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:32:20 ◼   ► Like, before that, you only had LTE and the iPad 3, which sucked.

00:32:24 ◼   ► And this was like, it was finally like good LTE with the low power chipset and everything.

00:32:28 ◼   ► So it was a really good phone.

00:32:30 ◼   ► It really moved forward in a number of major ways.

00:32:32 ◼   ► I remember like standing around in certain places like holding that phone. I remember like at like a certain mall

00:32:37 ◼   ► I was like I just have this snapshot in my head like holding my iPhone 5 and feel like man

00:32:40 ◼   ► This is I can't believe it's so light. It felt like it was empty. It was really cool

00:32:43 ◼   ► Yeah, that's a really good pick. Actually. I think the five is it was I

00:32:47 ◼   ► Well, the design was so good. It stuck around for the SC right like yeah, just kept going

00:32:52 ◼   ► It was a great design. It's also the first with lightning. So it's kind of the first like modern

00:32:57 ◼   ► Connector on the phone. I didn't think about that. You're right. Yeah, I'm a thotty pin rest in peace 30-50

00:33:02 ◼   ► Can you like press in the sides?

00:33:04 ◼   ► Yeah

00:33:07 ◼   ► It's like a scuzzy cable

00:33:09 ◼   ► Get in you gotta have a Terminator because it was one orientation only right you would somehow put it in three times to get it

00:33:17 ◼   ► Right. It's like USB. Oh man. Thotty pin. Mine is a very specific pick. What a surprise

00:33:25 ◼   ► So mine is the Verizon iPhone 4

00:33:28 ◼   ► It's a great phone

00:33:35 ◼   ► importantly the antenna brakes were

00:33:37 ◼   ► Even on both sides it was symmetrical like the four that had the three the three brakes. That's really important to me is who I am

00:33:44 ◼   ► So I had I had leading up probably I had an iPhone 3GS, but sometime in the 3GS era

00:33:51 ◼   ► I actually had to leave AT&T for like coverage reasons for something that was important in my life at the time

00:33:57 ◼   ► And I had to move to Verizon

00:33:59 ◼   ► There was like no way around this like my phone strip didn't work at a place that I spent

00:34:03 ◼   ► Hours and hours where we really needed my phone to work. Yeah, and there's kind of stuck and so I

00:34:10 ◼   ► experimented with Android I bought a the real mistakes

00:34:15 ◼   ► the original Motorola Droid

00:34:19 ◼   ► - Droid.

00:34:19 ◼   ► - Droid.

00:34:20 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:34:23 ◼   ► - Well, I remember those ads,

00:34:30 ◼   ► like we shielded our children from the ads.

00:34:32 ◼   ► - So aggressive.

00:34:33 ◼   ► - It's not gonna come kill you in your sleep.

00:34:36 ◼   ► The Droid was a solid phone.

00:34:38 ◼   ► - That was a cool looking phone.

00:34:39 ◼   ► - It was a phone Batman would use.

00:34:41 ◼   ► It was like black and metal and gold.

00:34:43 ◼   ► Had a pretty terrible slight of horizontal keyboard.

00:34:46 ◼   ► But then, then I stepped from the Android universe

00:34:51 ◼   ► into the Garden of Eden that was WebOS.

00:34:55 ◼   ► And I carried--

00:34:56 ◼   ► - You just made like a real left hand.

00:34:58 ◼   ► He's like, "Oh, I went back to the iPhone."

00:34:59 ◼   ► No, no, there's an important step.

00:35:02 ◼   ► - The Palm Pre Plus was on Verizon.

00:35:06 ◼   ► It ran WebOS.

00:35:07 ◼   ► WebOS is a really sad story,

00:35:09 ◼   ► but so many of the ideas that were

00:35:12 ◼   ► sort of instigated in WebOS are things we all have today.

00:35:15 ◼   ► like using the web technologies more integrated

00:35:19 ◼   ► into modern stuff and having multitasking with cards

00:35:23 ◼   ► and like a fluid gesture interface.

00:35:25 ◼   ► All that started with webOS.

00:35:26 ◼   ► The phone was really bad.

00:35:28 ◼   ► - And no apps.

00:35:29 ◼   ► - And no apps.

00:35:30 ◼   ► Palm went away.

00:35:32 ◼   ► - They're back?

00:35:33 ◼   ► - No, they're not.

00:35:34 ◼   ► Their name is, but they're dead.

00:35:35 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:35:36 ◼   ► So all this is going on right now

00:35:38 ◼   ► and I wanna be back on the iPhone,

00:35:40 ◼   ► but I just can't do it.

00:35:42 ◼   ► And then in January 2011, they announced,

00:35:46 ◼   ► in a very low-key way, that hey,

00:35:48 ◼   ► Verizon iPhone 4 is gonna be out next month.

00:35:52 ◼   ► I pre-ordered one, it showed up,

00:35:54 ◼   ► and I still have my Droid and Palm Pre.

00:35:57 ◼   ► I pull them out sometimes.

00:35:58 ◼   ► - That is a surprise that you kept those.

00:36:00 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:36:01 ◼   ► - Seems out of character.

00:36:01 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's really weird.

00:36:04 ◼   ► - The Palm Pre was a vertical slider,

00:36:05 ◼   ► so you slid it up and the keyboard would come out.

00:36:08 ◼   ► And I was always afraid I was gonna slide it up

00:36:09 ◼   ► and it would just separate.

00:36:10 ◼   ► - It was like shoot, shoot the top part of the phone.

00:36:12 ◼   ► - It was shaped like a bar of soap.

00:36:14 ◼   ► - Into the sky, it was like well that's gone, bye.

00:36:16 ◼   ► (audience laughs)

00:36:17 ◼   ► So I still have them both, but yeah,

00:36:18 ◼   ► the Verizon iPhone 4, 'cause I could come back to the iPhone

00:36:21 ◼   ► and that really started a period where the iPhone

00:36:25 ◼   ► was spreading to new carriers, and not just in the US,

00:36:29 ◼   ► it was in the UK and other places,

00:36:30 ◼   ► all of a sudden in more places, so it's an important phone,

00:36:33 ◼   ► but for me it was like I can come back to the iPhone

00:36:35 ◼   ► and I haven't left since.

00:36:37 ◼   ► - So that wasn't--

00:36:39 ◼   ► - You gonna applaud the Verizon iPhone 4?

00:36:41 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:36:43 ◼   ► - No. - 'Cause I had one person

00:36:43 ◼   ► applaud it and I felt bad.

00:36:45 ◼   ► I was like, oh, we need to--

00:36:46 ◼   ► - 'Cause then it makes it sound like you won that.

00:36:48 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:36:50 ◼   ► You didn't win that.

00:36:51 ◼   ► You couldn't even get that.

00:36:52 ◼   ► - This part will be edited out.

00:36:54 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:36:55 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by PayPal.

00:36:58 ◼   ► With PayPal, you can rely on a trusted payments partner

00:37:01 ◼   ► that processes over 25 million payments per day.

00:37:04 ◼   ► Let me tell you a story about a customer

00:37:06 ◼   ► who trusts PayPal to handle their payment processing.

00:37:08 ◼   ► Once an attorney in New York City,

00:37:10 ◼   ► Linda transformed her hobby of locating hard to find items

00:37:14 ◼   ► into a thriving luxury consignment company

00:37:17 ◼   ► called Linda's Stuff.

00:37:18 ◼   ► What was once a passion project is now a 100 person company

00:37:21 ◼   ► in a 93,000 square foot facility.

00:37:25 ◼   ► As a company specializing in high end,

00:37:26 ◼   ► previously owned goods, reputation is everything.

00:37:29 ◼   ► Integrity and trust are a critical part

00:37:31 ◼   ► of how the company operates.

00:37:33 ◼   ► From day one, Linda is counted on PayPal

00:37:35 ◼   ► to help give her customers confidence

00:37:37 ◼   ► and protect her business from fraud,

00:37:39 ◼   ► even when selling internationally.

00:37:40 ◼   ► She's counted on PayPal every step of the way.

00:37:43 ◼   ► When it comes to growing your business,

00:37:45 ◼   ► PayPal is your payments partner for today and tomorrow.

00:37:48 ◼   ► Visit paypal.com/growth to set up a business account today.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Sign up for free right now at paypal.com/growth.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Our thanks to PayPal for their support of this show

00:37:57 ◼   ► and Real AFM.

00:37:58 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:38:02 ◼   ► - Okay, so we are going to transition now

00:38:07 ◼   ► into talking about the event next week.

00:38:09 ◼   ► - Kind of. - Kind of.

00:38:11 ◼   ► So this is not a draft because Jason Snell

00:38:15 ◼   ► would not license the draft technology to us.

00:38:17 ◼   ► - Copyright.

00:38:19 ◼   ► - But this is a measure of what things

00:38:22 ◼   ► would make us happiest out of the event.

00:38:24 ◼   ► These things do not necessarily have to be rooted

00:38:28 ◼   ► in reality, as we will discover,

00:38:30 ◼   ► but things that we would like to see

00:38:31 ◼   ► and things that would just make us smile

00:38:34 ◼   ► as Phil Schiller announces them.

00:38:36 ◼   ► So obviously as we all know graded on the best I love you teachy scale

00:38:40 ◼   ► So, you know, we'll be aware of that. We'll talk about it maybe next week on the teachy scale

00:38:45 ◼   ► So as always the only scale the true scale. Yes

00:38:49 ◼   ► So we have a couple of rounds and as our guest Marco, would you like to go first?

00:38:55 ◼   ► I would I think everyone here is gonna know what I'm gonna say

00:38:58 ◼   ► iPads close

00:39:01 ◼   ► I'll give you a hint though. You have a keyboard over there that you might want to keep some dust out of

00:39:06 ◼   ► of. So I should let you know that that laptop you sold me is getting stuck again.

00:39:13 ◼   ► Just want to let you know. I told you it would. I know. I like it because when it

00:39:18 ◼   ► gets stuck I think of you. Oh good. It's nice. You smash your elbow into the key.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Yeah so my first pick for what would make me happiest here is fixing the low

00:39:27 ◼   ► end laptop. Like right now it's been a mess for so long with like the MacBook

00:39:31 ◼   ► Air hanging around forever, the 12 inch MacBook not really being a replacement

00:39:35 ◼   ► for it, then the 13 inch MacBook escape coming out and also not really being a replacement

00:39:39 ◼   ► for it, and the Air just keeps being sold forever.

00:39:43 ◼   ► And so I...

00:39:44 ◼   ► It is like a zombie at this point.

00:39:45 ◼   ► It really is.

00:39:46 ◼   ► It's like it looks weird, and like it won't go away, it's very strange.

00:39:49 ◼   ► But like people aren't being like dumb, it's still a really compelling computer.

00:39:54 ◼   ► And they haven't made one that is more compelling for a huge part of the market, right?

00:39:58 ◼   ► So there's a reason it's still being sold, I think they need to end that reason, finally.

00:40:02 ◼   ► And so what I want is for them to fix the low-end laptop

00:40:06 ◼   ► by releasing something new that fits that market in the way

00:40:10 ◼   ► it actually demands things and in a way that actually

00:40:13 ◼   ► would be a good product.

00:40:14 ◼   ► Because the Air has been a good product this whole time,

00:40:17 ◼   ► for eight years since that body style was introduced.

00:40:19 ◼   ► They need to fix that.

00:40:20 ◼   ► They need to give it a price that fits its market.

00:40:23 ◼   ► It needs to be as versatile as the Air was.

00:40:26 ◼   ► And that might be about ports or something.

00:40:29 ◼   ► But it also needs to have reliability,

00:40:32 ◼   ► 'cause the Air is being used by people

00:40:33 ◼   ► not only who need that, like everyone does really,

00:40:36 ◼   ► but value conscious people need it more than most people

00:40:39 ◼   ► 'cause they maybe can't afford to replace it as often

00:40:41 ◼   ► or get a service out of warranty.

00:40:42 ◼   ► - It's kind of interesting that you,

00:40:44 ◼   ► it's the low end laptop,

00:40:46 ◼   ► but that should mean it should last longer.

00:40:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, and it's gonna be put in schools and given to kids.

00:40:51 ◼   ► It gets so much use where durability really matters

00:40:56 ◼   ► and serviceability down the road is gonna matter too.

00:40:57 ◼   ► So it needs to have a non-butterfly keyboard.

00:41:01 ◼   ► - Ooh.

00:41:02 ◼   ► So,

00:41:05 ◼   ► in the idea of this is the Happy-O-Meter,

00:41:10 ◼   ► so it's just whatever makes you happiest,

00:41:11 ◼   ► is this a new keyboard or the old keyboard?

00:41:15 ◼   ► - Don't care.

00:41:16 ◼   ► It can be like, the one they make in the Magic keyboard,

00:41:20 ◼   ► the desktop version, that's a scissor keyboard,

00:41:22 ◼   ► and it's good, it's fine.

00:41:24 ◼   ► You know, it still has the weird arrow key layout,

00:41:25 ◼   ► but okay, I know I can't get everything I want here.

00:41:29 ◼   ► - You know, no, and in the Happy-O-Meter,

00:41:30 ◼   ► you can have whatever you want.

00:41:32 ◼   ► That's what this is all about.

00:41:33 ◼   ► This is just whatever makes Marco the happiest.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - At this point, I have such low expectations

00:41:38 ◼   ► on the keyboards.

00:41:38 ◼   ► - Oh no.

00:41:39 ◼   ► - Anything that's a totally new keyboard

00:41:42 ◼   ► would make me happiest.

00:41:43 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:41:44 ◼   ► - It'll be made of glass, good luck.

00:41:45 ◼   ► - Oh God, touchscreen.

00:41:47 ◼   ► - That was my pick, but we let Marco go first

00:41:51 ◼   ► 'cause he's the guest and we have to be nice.

00:41:53 ◼   ► So I'm going to, I'm gonna stay in the Mac family

00:41:57 ◼   ► And I'm just gonna go, I'm putting all my tips on the table

00:42:01 ◼   ► for a modern Mac Mini.

00:42:03 ◼   ► So this is not just, we got some Mac Mini crowd fans here.

00:42:08 ◼   ► - You have the entire customer base in this first floor.

00:42:11 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:42:13 ◼   ► And literally nobody would use it

00:42:15 ◼   ► for what Apple intends it to be used for.

00:42:18 ◼   ► It's like, oh, I'm gonna put it in a closet

00:42:19 ◼   ► and I'm gonna run the server on it.

00:42:21 ◼   ► It's like, that's not what the product is,

00:42:22 ◼   ► but like go for it.

00:42:24 ◼   ► - Put it in a car, you can do all sorts of crazy things.

00:42:26 ◼   ► - So I'm drawing a distinction here between,

00:42:29 ◼   ► hey, we just put last year's Intel tips in it, have fun.

00:42:33 ◼   ► This is the, the happy version is,

00:42:36 ◼   ► it is a truly modern Mac inside.

00:42:39 ◼   ► That means the T2 with the fast SSD,

00:42:43 ◼   ► it means Thunderbolt 3, because it's a desktop,

00:42:47 ◼   ► this also means USB-A, because the iMac Pro

00:42:49 ◼   ► and the iMacs have Thunderbolt 3 and USB-A,

00:42:52 ◼   ► just side by side, they don't even fight,

00:42:54 ◼   ► they're just like right next to each other.

00:42:55 ◼   ► - Imagine that harmony amongst both.

00:42:57 ◼   ► There's peace in dongle town.

00:42:59 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:43:00 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:43:03 ◼   ► That's good.

00:43:05 ◼   ► And I would like to see all of that in a form factor

00:43:07 ◼   ► that again, it's just more modern.

00:43:10 ◼   ► That probably just means space gray,

00:43:11 ◼   ► which would look awesome.

00:43:12 ◼   ► But the Mac Mini, I saw this on upgrade the other night,

00:43:15 ◼   ► it is built around the optical drive

00:43:17 ◼   ► that they removed in 2011.

00:43:19 ◼   ► Like it's still that form factor

00:43:22 ◼   ► and we've seen what others can do now

00:43:24 ◼   ► with much more powerful hardware.

00:43:26 ◼   ► And so I think truly a Mac Mini for our modern age

00:43:31 ◼   ► would really make me happy

00:43:32 ◼   ► 'cause I'm in the market for two of them now.

00:43:35 ◼   ► Can I tell this story?

00:43:36 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:43:37 ◼   ► - So if you're listening to the live stream now,

00:43:38 ◼   ► that is hosted by our friends at Mac Stadium

00:43:41 ◼   ► and the Mac Mini there, that we've had there.

00:43:44 ◼   ► The ethernet died on it.

00:43:46 ◼   ► So we're streaming through a dongle.

00:43:48 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:43:49 ◼   ► And that really, really makes me feel uncomfortable.

00:43:52 ◼   ► - I like it.

00:43:53 ◼   ► I like it. It's fun.

00:43:55 ◼   ► Stupid danger.

00:43:57 ◼   ► It feels that way.

00:43:59 ◼   ► Maybe we can get some flames painted on the side of the dongle.

00:44:01 ◼   ► Oh, it goes faster.

00:44:03 ◼   ► Do you honestly think the new Mac Mini wouldn't require a dongle for Ethernet?

00:44:07 ◼   ► In the happy land, Marco, it has 10 gigabit Ethernet.

00:44:11 ◼   ► Just like my iMac Pro.

00:44:13 ◼   ► This is an expensive machine you're building out here.

00:44:15 ◼   ► This Mac Mini costs $4,000.

00:44:17 ◼   ► No, in all seriousness, the Mac Mini has a regionally conceived,

00:44:21 ◼   ► like you mentioned this in Upgrade,

00:44:23 ◼   ► it was originally conceived as like this cheap Mac desktop

00:44:26 ◼   ► to attract Windows users.

00:44:27 ◼   ► So the whole point of the machine was to be cheap

00:44:30 ◼   ► to attract desktop users.

00:44:31 ◼   ► - It was to slot into something that already existed, right?

00:44:33 ◼   ► - Right, that market barely exists anymore.

00:44:36 ◼   ► And what the Mac Mini needs to do now

00:44:39 ◼   ► is not necessarily to be super cheap

00:44:42 ◼   ► because low-end buyers tend to buy things

00:44:43 ◼   ► like the MacBook Air.

00:44:44 ◼   ► They send them by low-end laptops instead.

00:44:46 ◼   ► So what it needs to be is the gap filler.

00:44:50 ◼   ► It needs to cover a whole bunch of different uses

00:44:52 ◼   ► that the other machines just can't

00:44:53 ◼   ► because of their physical size and attributes, right?

00:44:56 ◼   ► It doesn't necessarily have to be super cheap.

00:44:58 ◼   ► So they could make a machine that has high-end specs,

00:45:01 ◼   ► and this was rumored to be the quote,

00:45:03 ◼   ► pro-focus configuration for the Mac Mini.

00:45:05 ◼   ► I think that makes a lot of sense.

00:45:06 ◼   ► They could make a version of this that they,

00:45:08 ◼   ► first of all, can keep up to date a little more often,

00:45:11 ◼   ► but like, give it all the ports.

00:45:13 ◼   ► - Thermal corners, they backed themselves

00:45:13 ◼   ► into a real thermal corner with the Mac Mini.

00:45:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, right. (audience laughing)

00:45:16 ◼   ► - Sharp corners.

00:45:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, right, it doesn't need to be super cool,

00:45:22 ◼   ► it doesn't need to be super tiny,

00:45:23 ◼   ► it doesn't need to be super cheap,

00:45:25 ◼   ► it just needs to be very versatile.

00:45:26 ◼   ► So put in a vote here for lots of ports.

00:45:29 ◼   ► - So, done with this Mac stuff.

00:45:31 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

00:45:33 ◼   ► Nonsense.

00:45:34 ◼   ► So we're expecting iPad hardware, that'd be great.

00:45:39 ◼   ► Very excited about iPad hardware, like,

00:45:42 ◼   ► I have a huge hole in my 12.9 inch,

00:45:45 ◼   ► it's like a massive hole above the home button because I just destroyed the screen.

00:45:50 ◼   ► The screen is just destroyed and I keep sticking my finger into the iPad which is,

00:45:55 ◼   ► I don't need to be that close to it. I love it but like...

00:45:58 ◼   ► Force touch!

00:45:59 ◼   ► It is forceful. I would love to see some iPad software changes that goes along with this.

00:46:05 ◼   ► Like we're expecting a pro machine, like USB-C apparently now.

00:46:12 ◼   ► If you're gonna do that, there's a bunch of really interesting things that could happen with USB-C.

00:46:17 ◼   ► Like, I don't know if I necessarily care about external displays that much.

00:46:22 ◼   ► If that's all it does, like you give me an external display, like what about some other input methods?

00:46:27 ◼   ► What about being able to access the Files app? Like wouldn't that be a lot of fun?

00:46:31 ◼   ► What if we just, let's just go wild and let's just change the home screen?

00:46:36 ◼   ► Like why don't we just do it? You know?

00:46:38 ◼   ► I think that, I just think that if we're gonna have this like iPhone 10-y style iPad, right,

00:46:46 ◼   ► like it's really cool, like super futuristic, it might look a bit weird with just like this

00:46:51 ◼   ► big app icon grid, like oh look at it, like it just doesn't really seem that exciting.

00:46:56 ◼   ► I'm still hoping and expecting, definitely expecting, that WWDC will see all this stuff,

00:47:02 ◼   ► but maybe just, just throw me a bone or two, you know, there's like oh there's a couple of new

00:47:06 ◼   ► things that come with like 12.1 or 12.2,

00:47:10 ◼   ► which are just iPad software stuff.

00:47:12 ◼   ► I would be very happy about that.

00:47:13 ◼   ► - I mean, the iPad definitely seems to be on a year on,

00:47:16 ◼   ► year off cycle with software.

00:47:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:47:19 ◼   ► - But the sort of the wild hair there is the,

00:47:23 ◼   ► what was it, the 10.2 or two?

00:47:26 ◼   ► - It was 10.3, the Advillet Classroom stuff

00:47:28 ◼   ► and things like that.

00:47:29 ◼   ► - Yeah, and so there is some precedent for them

00:47:30 ◼   ► to do sort of a mid-cycle thing on the iPad.

00:47:33 ◼   ► And I think that would be, I think that'd be great.

00:47:36 ◼   ► You know, I think that the iPad for me

00:47:41 ◼   ► is held back by some pretty fundamental things,

00:47:43 ◼   ► and that's not hardware.

00:47:44 ◼   ► The hardware is great.

00:47:46 ◼   ► Like, my 10.5 inch iPad Pro is way more powerful

00:47:49 ◼   ► than I need it to be,

00:47:51 ◼   ► and this one's gonna be even more so,

00:47:52 ◼   ► assumedly, but what's holding it back,

00:47:55 ◼   ► I think for a lot of us,

00:47:56 ◼   ► are these like basic software things.

00:47:58 ◼   ► Like, great, I have USB-C,

00:47:59 ◼   ► but I have an SD card here,

00:48:01 ◼   ► and I can't make them work together,

00:48:03 ◼   ► which is silly.

00:48:04 ◼   ► they need to open this device up to external things to make it a better

00:48:11 ◼   ► citizen of the world and not just be like a closed off island and I really

00:48:15 ◼   ► hope that USB C is like the bridge to that future. Because it's just super

00:48:20 ◼   ► weird if like you put a universal port on it but it only works with like a

00:48:24 ◼   ► monitor. It'd be disappointing and and so yeah I'm on I'm on board with

00:48:30 ◼   ► this 100% because I like things like editing audio like yeah I can put on

00:48:34 ◼   ► on Dropbox, I'm gonna be like, I have it on an SD card,

00:48:36 ◼   ► like I'm recording an SD card right now,

00:48:39 ◼   ► and sort of like shoving it into the inside of your iPad,

00:48:41 ◼   ► there's no way to get it in.

00:48:43 ◼   ► - And also, what if you're on a plane?

00:48:44 ◼   ► Or what if you're in an area that doesn't have good

00:48:47 ◼   ► cell coverage, I mean like, it's nice to be able,

00:48:49 ◼   ► you can't just rely on cloud storage for everything

00:48:52 ◼   ► when you have literally like, here's a memory card,

00:48:55 ◼   ► here's an iPad, there's files on this, I need to get here,

00:48:58 ◼   ► and there's no way I can do that

00:48:59 ◼   ► without involving the internet, that's weird.

00:49:01 ◼   ► - And I know you guys use SD cards a lot,

00:49:03 ◼   ► that's why you're focusing on it but like when you put if you put USB C on

00:49:07 ◼   ► this thing it's hard drives like actual just hard drives that are USB C you just

00:49:11 ◼   ► plug you should plug it in something should have an SSD raid right to an iPad

00:49:15 ◼   ► sure I mean awesome there's a lot of data you got to deal with yeah you just

00:49:20 ◼   ► tape it to the back tape like a few of the Samsung t2 drives oh yeah oh now

00:49:25 ◼   ► we're talking that'd be that'd be great yeah people been asking for expansion

00:49:31 ◼   ► Alright Marco you're up. Alright so this is round two. My happy thing next

00:49:38 ◼   ► whatever we're calling this, not a draft. Not a draft. Not a draft. Just happy stuff. I want to see a

00:49:42 ◼   ► completely redesigned Apple pencil and so if you look here at Myke's iPad here

00:49:49 ◼   ► there's an iPad there's an Apple pencil that is stuck to the top of it in like a

00:49:54 ◼   ► notebook pen loop. It is the Leuchtturm 1917 pen loop Marco. Yes.

00:49:59 ◼   ► so it is also enclosed in a metal like pen shaped barrel shield thing that goes

00:50:07 ◼   ► around the kavaco grip naturally right like the number of hacks that he's has

00:50:15 ◼   ► to they have to do to make this thing feel good in the hand comfortable to use

00:50:20 ◼   ► and always with him not to mention the fact that we haven't seen it charge yet

00:50:24 ◼   ► I stand by the charging. I stand by the charging. So it's you know. Now your pencil is paired with his iPad.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Sorry, I think our friendship reached a new level.

00:50:38 ◼   ► So you know the pencil as it stands now is amazing technology

00:50:44 ◼   ► that's really nice to use but it just sucks to carry it with the iPad.

00:50:49 ◼   ► There's just no good way to carry it and it's always getting discharged because if you carry it anywhere

00:50:54 ◼   ► near the iPad, it'll keep itself kind of paired, sort of,

00:50:56 ◼   ► and then it'll discharge itself.

00:50:58 ◼   ► And charging it is really awkward and weird.

00:50:59 ◼   ► And so, not to mention, you have this little cap

00:51:02 ◼   ► that you pop that off, and that's gone.

00:51:03 ◼   ► You lost that forever.

00:51:05 ◼   ► And it comes with a little dongle, a little reverse adapter

00:51:08 ◼   ► to be able to plug into a lightning port.

00:51:09 ◼   ► - I'm terrified he's about to lose the cap of my own.

00:51:11 ◼   ► - I know, right?

00:51:12 ◼   ► So there's so much about this that is fiddly.

00:51:14 ◼   ► And there's all these little parts to lose.

00:51:16 ◼   ► There's the weird way you can't carry it easily

00:51:18 ◼   ► with the iPad, and there's the charging issue.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I want them to fix this.

00:51:22 ◼   ► I want them to design a new iPad and Apple Pencil

00:51:25 ◼   ► that actually seem like they were designed to be together

00:51:28 ◼   ► instead of what we have now,

00:51:29 ◼   ► which seems like these were designed on different planets.

00:51:31 ◼   ► So make it more convenient to carry with the iPad.

00:51:33 ◼   ► Maybe there's that, maybe that magnet thing

00:51:35 ◼   ► that's rumored for the back of it,

00:51:36 ◼   ► maybe you can stamp it on there,

00:51:37 ◼   ► like the Microsoft tablet things do, that works fine,

00:51:40 ◼   ► as long as it's strong enough

00:51:41 ◼   ► to actually keep it there like in a bag.

00:51:43 ◼   ► So make it more convenient to keep with you,

00:51:45 ◼   ► more convenient to keep charged,

00:51:47 ◼   ► and with fewer fiddly bits and parts to lose.

00:51:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I love the Apple Pencil,

00:51:53 ◼   ► but decided that it was flawed in a bunch of ways.

00:51:57 ◼   ► So what I have done is make the Apple Pencil that I want.

00:52:01 ◼   ► - You've made a monster.

00:52:02 ◼   ► - No, it's beautiful.

00:52:03 ◼   ► The Kaweco grip thing is really nice.

00:52:05 ◼   ► Like I actually think it has all of the features that I want.

00:52:08 ◼   ► It has a much nicer grip,

00:52:10 ◼   ► which is more comfortable to hold, and it's faceted.

00:52:14 ◼   ► So it won't roll away because that weight thing is nonsense.

00:52:18 ◼   ► Like it rolls, it will roll away.

00:52:19 ◼   ► It's a perfect circle, it will roll.

00:52:21 ◼   ► So I would love this.

00:52:26 ◼   ► I would love a button or two on it

00:52:29 ◼   ► to add additional functions in a lot of applications.

00:52:31 ◼   ► It would be great.

00:52:32 ◼   ► I use a Wacom tablet with my iMac,

00:52:35 ◼   ► and I can select things and delete things,

00:52:37 ◼   ► and there's loads of different functions you can add to it.

00:52:38 ◼   ► This is something that Microsoft, I think,

00:52:40 ◼   ► and Google have on their stylus product.

00:52:43 ◼   ► But I really hope that Apple make an aluminum one.

00:52:47 ◼   ► It would be wonderful.

00:52:48 ◼   ► It can still be light and it would be really great looking.

00:52:50 ◼   ► They could charge more for it, come in colors.

00:52:52 ◼   ► It'd be great.

00:52:53 ◼   ► That's something I really hope for.

00:52:56 ◼   ► I don't think I'm gonna get made of the materials

00:52:58 ◼   ► that I want, but I do think that they will

00:53:01 ◼   ► make do at least some of the things

00:53:03 ◼   ► that you were asking for.

00:53:04 ◼   ► Hope so.

00:53:06 ◼   ► - I mean, it's one of those things like there's a whole world

00:53:08 ◼   ► of these devices Apple could look at

00:53:10 ◼   ► and find ways to improve it.

00:53:12 ◼   ► And it's very clear to me, the pencil is maybe

00:53:17 ◼   ► The first example that comes to mind for me

00:53:19 ◼   ► is this seems like it was designed in a vacuum.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:22 ◼   ► Well, I don't want to move away from the fact

00:53:25 ◼   ► that thinking about-- version one of the Apple Pencil

00:53:28 ◼   ► is the best stylus anyone's ever made for a tablet.

00:53:31 ◼   ► The technology, the way that they paired it,

00:53:34 ◼   ► the responsiveness, the fact that you can tilt it to shade,

00:53:37 ◼   ► they did an incredible job with the inside technology

00:53:39 ◼   ► of this thing.

00:53:41 ◼   ► But now that's taken care of, they need to go further.

00:53:45 ◼   ► I hear you.

00:53:46 ◼   ► - That's good.

00:53:47 ◼   ► I'm gonna spend a little time with the iMac,

00:53:51 ◼   ► the regular iMac, not the iMac Pro.

00:53:53 ◼   ► - Back to the Mac.

00:53:54 ◼   ► - Back to the Mac.

00:53:55 ◼   ► (audience laughs)

00:53:57 ◼   ► I have a lot of complaints about the iMac line.

00:54:02 ◼   ► So if you walked into an Apple store with $1100

00:54:06 ◼   ► to buy an iMac, you would buy an iMac with no Retina display,

00:54:10 ◼   ► a spinning hard drive that is powered by turtles,

00:54:14 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:54:16 ◼   ► And like low RAM, it's not a great machine.

00:54:20 ◼   ► - Everybody here, it just went through the same thing

00:54:23 ◼   ► that I went through earlier today

00:54:24 ◼   ► when I didn't know this product existed.

00:54:26 ◼   ► - Yeah. - I didn't realize

00:54:27 ◼   ► they were still, I knew about the hard drive,

00:54:29 ◼   ► I didn't realize they were still selling

00:54:30 ◼   ► a non-retina iMac. - Yes.

00:54:31 ◼   ► So as you move up the line--

00:54:33 ◼   ► - What screen size is that?

00:54:34 ◼   ► - 21.5 inches.

00:54:36 ◼   ► - It's small as well, right? - For some reason.

00:54:37 ◼   ► It is small.

00:54:38 ◼   ► So let's talk about the entry level 4K machine.

00:54:43 ◼   ► also has a spinning hard drive as standard.

00:54:45 ◼   ► Not a fusion drive, and these are slow 5400 RPM drives.

00:54:50 ◼   ► I have actually used one of these more modern iMacs

00:54:55 ◼   ► with the slow drive, and this is not just like,

00:54:58 ◼   ► ooh, he's a nerd, it's really slow.

00:55:00 ◼   ► Like you get the beach ball

00:55:02 ◼   ► when you open system preferences.

00:55:03 ◼   ► - It feels like the hipster's iMac, right?

00:55:06 ◼   ► Like it's like-- - Yeah.

00:55:07 ◼   ► - Like steampunk? - Yeah.

00:55:08 ◼   ► It's like you hear this grinding inside,

00:55:11 ◼   ► like oh, it's working.

00:55:12 ◼   ► It's like crank on the back.

00:55:13 ◼   ► Oh, I just love the sound quality of the hard drive.

00:55:17 ◼   ► Like the cracks and pops.

00:55:19 ◼   ► It really adds a warmth to the data.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:55:22 ◼   ► I mean, at this point, it should be illegal to sell hard drives.

00:55:25 ◼   ► It should literally be illegal to sell a computer that only

00:55:28 ◼   ► has a spinning hard drive in 2018.

00:55:30 ◼   ► I really like my artisanally crafted data loss.

00:55:32 ◼   ► [LAUGHTER]

00:55:36 ◼   ► So what would make-- so the iMac is

00:55:39 ◼   ► do for processor upgrades, those chips are available.

00:55:44 ◼   ► I fully expect to see them.

00:55:45 ◼   ► I would like the core count to go up.

00:55:48 ◼   ► But especially in this low end of the line,

00:55:52 ◼   ► you've got to get rid of the non-retina one.

00:55:54 ◼   ► Sell it to kids in education only, whatever.

00:55:56 ◼   ► But if you walk into an Apple store,

00:55:58 ◼   ► you should not be able to buy a non-retina iMac.

00:56:00 ◼   ► And I understand that apparently we're still

00:56:03 ◼   ► in fusion drive world.

00:56:05 ◼   ► The fusion drive should be standard across the line.

00:56:08 ◼   ► you should not be able to buy a machine

00:56:11 ◼   ► that boots from a hard drive.

00:56:12 ◼   ► The only two that do are this El Cheapo iMac

00:56:17 ◼   ► and the Mac Mini.

00:56:18 ◼   ► And I feel like if the Mac Mini is gonna be updated

00:56:21 ◼   ► to at least a Fusion Drive or in my world,

00:56:23 ◼   ► like the dual SSD modules,

00:56:26 ◼   ► this iMac's gotta come along for the ride

00:56:28 ◼   ► at least to the Fusion Drive land.

00:56:29 ◼   ► - It is kind of funny that like,

00:56:31 ◼   ► I mean the Mac Mini has a hard drive

00:56:32 ◼   ► because the Mac Mini's so old.

00:56:33 ◼   ► - Right.

00:56:34 ◼   ► - This iMac is not that old.

00:56:35 ◼   ► - It was revised not that long ago.

00:56:36 ◼   ► And so it's, you know, to me, I just think about

00:56:40 ◼   ► the person coming to the Mac for the first time,

00:56:42 ◼   ► and they're not buying, probably,

00:56:44 ◼   ► they're not buying the iMac Pro,

00:56:45 ◼   ► they're not buying the MacBook Pro with Touch Bar,

00:56:48 ◼   ► especially if they're a student or they're, you know,

00:56:50 ◼   ► maybe they're a young adult, you know,

00:56:51 ◼   ► kinda out on their own for the first time,

00:56:53 ◼   ► and they need a new Mac.

00:56:54 ◼   ► - Or a family machine.

00:56:55 ◼   ► - Or a family machine, absolutely.

00:56:57 ◼   ► That's a pretty bad experience.

00:57:00 ◼   ► And if it's someone's first experience with the Mac,

00:57:03 ◼   ► or the first one that they've bought for themselves,

00:57:05 ◼   ► Is that the impression Apple wants to leave?

00:57:07 ◼   ► I don't think it is because these machines

00:57:10 ◼   ► are just not responsive, they're slow,

00:57:13 ◼   ► they're more prone for data loss.

00:57:15 ◼   ► It's just not a good look.

00:57:16 ◼   ► And so I think it would make me really happy

00:57:18 ◼   ► with all the processor stuff and six core on the high end.

00:57:21 ◼   ► Fix this low-end iMac mess and make these entry models

00:57:25 ◼   ► something that Apple could be proud of.

00:57:28 ◼   ► - I'm actually optimistic that this might be the time

00:57:30 ◼   ► for that because they're clearly going through

00:57:32 ◼   ► a major Mac architectural transition

00:57:35 ◼   ► where they're clearly gonna spread

00:57:37 ◼   ► the T2 architecture far and wide.

00:57:38 ◼   ► Like what they wanna do is get all the Macs

00:57:40 ◼   ► on this T series architecture,

00:57:42 ◼   ► but for lots of security reasons,

00:57:44 ◼   ► and just the amazing SSD performance and everything else.

00:57:46 ◼   ► It's a great architecture,

00:57:47 ◼   ► and they're pushing hard on it right now.

00:57:49 ◼   ► That's why I think we're seeing a MacBook Air replacement

00:57:52 ◼   ► and a Mac Mini replacement this fall,

00:57:54 ◼   ► because I think they want to,

00:57:56 ◼   ► for lots of security reasons,

00:57:58 ◼   ► I think as fast as possible,

00:57:59 ◼   ► they wanna get all the Macs sold on the T2 land.

00:58:02 ◼   ► And I don't see them shipping this T2 architecture

00:58:06 ◼   ► with support for spinning hard drives.

00:58:07 ◼   ► So I'm guessing that the,

00:58:10 ◼   ► all new Macs from this point forward,

00:58:13 ◼   ► not only have the T2, but don't have spinning hard drives.

00:58:16 ◼   ► And if they're gonna go through that kind of update

00:58:18 ◼   ► for the iMac, please change the retina screen,

00:58:20 ◼   ► exchange the retina screen.

00:58:22 ◼   ► 'Cause if they drop the spinning hard drive

00:58:24 ◼   ► and still sell non-retina, I will cry.

00:58:26 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:58:27 ◼   ► - Darren, like is this the same in the MacBook Air?

00:58:30 ◼   ► There shouldn't be Macs with non-retina screens now.

00:58:32 ◼   ► - Right, and I think we're finally, I mean look,

00:58:34 ◼   ► the first Retina product was the iPhone 4 in 2010.

00:58:38 ◼   ► The first Retina Mac was 2012.

00:58:40 ◼   ► It's been a while.

00:58:41 ◼   ► We shouldn't have any more non-Retina devices

00:58:44 ◼   ► from Apple anymore.

00:58:45 ◼   ► - I want iPad trackpad support.

00:58:48 ◼   ► - All right.

00:58:49 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

00:58:50 ◼   ► - So, it's a couple of things.

00:58:52 ◼   ► I mean, one, just being able to scroll through web pages

00:58:56 ◼   ► would be nice, to be able to select text would be nice

00:58:58 ◼   ► in the way that you kind of can

00:59:00 ◼   ► with the software keyboard stuff.

00:59:02 ◼   ► But let's imagine that there's gonna be

00:59:03 ◼   ► external monitor support.

00:59:05 ◼   ► I would like my iPad to maybe be over there

00:59:08 ◼   ► and I could use a trackpad and could do everything.

00:59:10 ◼   ► Also, I have started to think kind of more seriously

00:59:13 ◼   ► about the ergonomic impact of these devices.

00:59:17 ◼   ► So I've been putting my iPad on a stand,

00:59:20 ◼   ► I'm using my Apple Pencil for a bunch of stuff,

00:59:22 ◼   ► but I would also really like to have a trackpad there to,

00:59:25 ◼   ► I mean, in the beginning, I guess at least,

00:59:28 ◼   ► to just allow me to do some basic stuff,

00:59:29 ◼   ► But ultimately when we start to see this weird

00:59:32 ◼   ► cross pollination of iPad and Mac apps,

00:59:35 ◼   ► then it might work really great to have a trackpad

00:59:38 ◼   ► with an iPad.

00:59:39 ◼   ► So that's what I would like very, very much,

00:59:41 ◼   ► very much in fact.

00:59:43 ◼   ► - I mean, the rest of the world is doing this, right?

00:59:46 ◼   ► You look at Google, you look at the--

00:59:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, we just saw that, like what is it?

00:59:48 ◼   ► The Pixel Slate?

00:59:49 ◼   ► - The Pixel Slate. - Has a trackpad?

00:59:51 ◼   ► - It's super buggy, but it's a story for a different time.

00:59:54 ◼   ► But the Surface is, I mean, you walk into a Best Buy,

00:59:56 ◼   ► anything you can buy running Windows 10 that's decent

00:59:59 ◼   ► is gonna have a touch screen,

01:00:00 ◼   ► but it's gonna retain the track pad.

01:00:02 ◼   ► And we're gonna take touch screen max

01:00:05 ◼   ► off the table for a second.

01:00:06 ◼   ► The iPad is coming at this from the other side

01:00:10 ◼   ► where it now feels a little out of place

01:00:13 ◼   ► that you have to reach up and touch the screen

01:00:15 ◼   ► for everything.

01:00:16 ◼   ► You know, users of these other devices,

01:00:19 ◼   ► like I see them, I got friends who use them,

01:00:21 ◼   ► and they move very fluidly from the screen

01:00:23 ◼   ► to the track pad to the keyboard,

01:00:26 ◼   ► and there's real benefit there to a user.

01:00:28 ◼   ► You know, for me it's the same as you.

01:00:31 ◼   ► It's the ergonomics of it.

01:00:32 ◼   ► And also sort of just the speed of it.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Like, if I can keep my hands horizontal,

01:00:37 ◼   ► I can work sort of more smoothly.

01:00:39 ◼   ► And it makes a ton of sense here.

01:00:41 ◼   ► And we could joke and say, oh well, you know,

01:00:44 ◼   ► what's a Mac, what's an iPad?

01:00:46 ◼   ► But the rest of the world doesn't--

01:00:48 ◼   ► - The move-in tools being the same thing.

01:00:49 ◼   ► - They are, probably.

01:00:50 ◼   ► Sorry Marco.

01:00:51 ◼   ► But the rest of the world doesn't--

01:00:53 ◼   ► - I thought you were on my team.

01:00:54 ◼   ► - I am.

01:00:54 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:00:56 ◼   ► The rest of the world doesn't care about these distinctions

01:01:00 ◼   ► and it seems old fashioned that Apple continues to.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - Really simple way to think of it,

01:01:04 ◼   ► every multi-touch gesture that you do on your iPad,

01:01:07 ◼   ► you can just move to a trackpad.

01:01:08 ◼   ► That's just a basic way to do it

01:01:10 ◼   ► and it'll work from there.

01:01:11 ◼   ► - Absolutely.

01:01:12 ◼   ► - Also I feel like it would dramatically improve

01:01:15 ◼   ► one of the iPad's biggest slowdowns

01:01:18 ◼   ► when you're trying to get a lot of stuff done,

01:01:19 ◼   ► which is text selection and text movement of cursors

01:01:22 ◼   ► and everything.

01:01:23 ◼   ► Having a trackpad with a cursor that could just say bam

01:01:25 ◼   ► and click right there, that would be so much faster.

01:01:28 ◼   ► Like I know you can use your finger,

01:01:29 ◼   ► but you have to wait for the insertion point to come up

01:01:31 ◼   ► and it's just slower and less precise.

01:01:33 ◼   ► So to have a fast, precise point input method

01:01:37 ◼   ► that could be tied into the text selection system

01:01:38 ◼   ► to make it work more like Macs and PCs do

01:01:41 ◼   ► would I think dramatically improve iPad productivity.

01:01:44 ◼   ► - Well 'cause the software version

01:01:45 ◼   ► on the software keyboard is wonderful,

01:01:47 ◼   ► but I use my iPads with hardware keyboards all the time,

01:01:49 ◼   ► like Apple Intents.

01:01:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, and like, me too, yeah.

01:01:52 ◼   ► And like when I got the iPad Pro

01:01:54 ◼   ► I got the smart keyboard with it that dramatically changed how much I use my iPad like I love it so much more

01:01:58 ◼   ► With a real physical keyboard. Yeah, I can I can get so much more done so much faster on it

01:02:03 ◼   ► That's one of the best keywords Apple makes it. Honestly it is I love the smart keyboard

01:02:07 ◼   ► It does can't get in underneath that fabric. Yeah, all of my keys have worked the entire time

01:02:11 ◼   ► You asked too much. Yeah

01:02:14 ◼   ► All right this episode we have one more round of pics

01:02:17 ◼   ► But before we do let's thank our final sponsor and that is the fine folk over at timing who make the automatic

01:02:22 ◼   ► time tracking app for Mac OS. In today's fast-moving world the next distraction

01:02:26 ◼   ► is right around the corner which makes it harder and harder to stay on track of

01:02:29 ◼   ► your projects and determine how much you really worked. That's why you need an app

01:02:34 ◼   ► to help you stay on top of your time. But manual time tracking can be an

01:02:38 ◼   ► interruption, timing is different. Timing automates your time tracking to save you

01:02:42 ◼   ► as much time as possible. First, it will automatically track how you spend time

01:02:47 ◼   ► on your Mac broken down by app, website and document. It's very similar to iOS

01:02:51 ◼   ► screen time but for the Mac. Plus, timing offers more advanced tracking including

01:02:56 ◼   ► manual stuff and a wonderful dock mode. You can end up with a lot of data to

01:03:00 ◼   ► work through so timing will let you use drag-and-drop to create rules that

01:03:04 ◼   ► automatically categorize your time for you. It will also suggest gaps in your

01:03:09 ◼   ► timeline and how to fill them and it will even ask you what you did whenever

01:03:12 ◼   ► you return to your Mac so you can very easily add that information and it also

01:03:16 ◼   ► has an automatic sync feature as well to keep that data in sync across all of

01:03:20 ◼   ► your Macs. I believe in time tracking very greatly but one of the big problems is that

01:03:25 ◼   ► people cannot understand exactly what they are tracking and when and you forget the timers.

01:03:30 ◼   ► But one of the great things about time tracking is that it will let you understand how you

01:03:33 ◼   ► are spending your time and a system that is just doing it in the background really is

01:03:38 ◼   ► the best way to get that information. Timing is so confident that you will love their fast

01:03:41 ◼   ► free approach. They offer a totally free trial. Go to timingapp.com/connected and you will

01:03:47 ◼   ► able to download the 14 day trial and save 10% when you purchase. That is

01:03:51 ◼   ► timingapp.com/connected. Timing, stop worrying about time and focus on

01:03:57 ◼   ► doing your best work instead. Our thanks to Timing for their support of this show

01:04:00 ◼   ► and Relay FM.

01:04:02 ◼   ► [applause]

01:04:05 ◼   ► Alright Marco, your final pick for the happy armature please.

01:04:10 ◼   ► So while we're not ripping off Jason this is not the crazy round.

01:04:14 ◼   ► No.

01:04:14 ◼   ► but it is the more remote possibilities, I think.

01:04:18 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think so, looking at this.

01:04:20 ◼   ► - Well, we'll see.

01:04:21 ◼   ► - One of the recent rumors that came out a few days ago

01:04:23 ◼   ► is that Meng-Chi Kuo is predicting

01:04:25 ◼   ► that there might be a new iPad Mini.

01:04:27 ◼   ► (audience laughing and cheering)

01:04:31 ◼   ► I mean, this sounds as ridiculous as the Mac Mini, right?

01:04:34 ◼   ► But that's also rumored.

01:04:35 ◼   ► If there was a new iPad Mini,

01:04:37 ◼   ► that would make me very happy because,

01:04:39 ◼   ► I mean, since we're not picking things

01:04:40 ◼   ► that are totally unlikely in this round,

01:04:42 ◼   ► The market that wants the functionality of an iPad,

01:04:46 ◼   ► but doesn't want it to be this big, has not gone away.

01:04:49 ◼   ► That market is still there.

01:04:51 ◼   ► Backs have not gotten bigger. - There is a person

01:04:53 ◼   ► in my household who significantly believes in the iPad Mini

01:04:56 ◼   ► and will just not want it to go away.

01:04:59 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:00 ◼   ► - And dinner is using an iPad Mini 2 very happily.

01:05:03 ◼   ► - Yeah, like, I don't know how.

01:05:05 ◼   ► - I think it has a spinning hard drive.

01:05:06 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:05:09 ◼   ► - It doesn't have touch ID.

01:05:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:05:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, and actually, and my son uses that same model.

01:05:15 ◼   ► - Yep, like the same.

01:05:16 ◼   ► - And it's getting pretty old,

01:05:18 ◼   ► I'm kind of afraid to upgrade it to iOS 11.

01:05:21 ◼   ► And you know, I would like for his next iPad,

01:05:27 ◼   ► you know, he's six, so I think this might be a little big

01:05:30 ◼   ► for him to go to the 9.7 or 10.5 kind of class size.

01:05:34 ◼   ► I really want that size to continue to exist,

01:05:36 ◼   ► and for the last couple years,

01:05:37 ◼   ► it hasn't looked like it's going to.

01:05:39 ◼   ► and nothing will replace it.

01:05:42 ◼   ► So I really hope they actually do a new iPad Mini,

01:05:45 ◼   ► even though it would probably have lower end specs

01:05:47 ◼   ► than most of the iPads.

01:05:50 ◼   ► And they would still have a weird segmentation challenge

01:05:53 ◼   ► to prevent schools from just buying only them

01:05:56 ◼   ► because they're the cheapest one,

01:05:57 ◼   ► instead of buying the new 329 iPad or whatever that one is.

01:06:00 ◼   ► So I don't know how they would price it.

01:06:02 ◼   ► I don't know what they would put in it.

01:06:03 ◼   ► I don't know whether it would have pencil support

01:06:05 ◼   ► or anything pro like that.

01:06:07 ◼   ► I just want this product to keep existing

01:06:08 ◼   ► because there are people who use it who want that size

01:06:11 ◼   ► and for whom the big ones are too big.

01:06:13 ◼   ► - Just like the Mac Mini, like it really is,

01:06:16 ◼   ► they kind of like the mini lines,

01:06:18 ◼   ► this is kind of similar in that way.

01:06:19 ◼   ► There are people that really want them

01:06:20 ◼   ► and they're really old now, but they keep existing.

01:06:23 ◼   ► - Wait, the people or the devices?

01:06:24 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:06:27 ◼   ► - Both, I don't know.

01:06:28 ◼   ► - So I have a head canon for this

01:06:30 ◼   ► because the iPad Mini rumor did come up very last minute.

01:06:33 ◼   ► Of, you know, I would imagine that Tim Cook uses Siri,

01:06:37 ◼   ► you know, texting, you know, he's not gonna type,

01:06:40 ◼   ► he's too busy for that.

01:06:41 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

01:06:42 ◼   ► - So he just, he tells Siri to the hardware team,

01:06:46 ◼   ► hey, you know, we're gonna make a new Mac Mini,

01:06:48 ◼   ► but Siri garbled it, and so he goes like six weeks later,

01:06:52 ◼   ► and they've made a new iPad Mini.

01:06:54 ◼   ► He's like, what are you doing?

01:06:55 ◼   ► We're supposed to do a Mac Mini,

01:06:56 ◼   ► and like, well, we already made this,

01:06:58 ◼   ► and so you might as well put it on sale.

01:07:00 ◼   ► That's my--

01:07:00 ◼   ► - I like that, that seems plausible.

01:07:02 ◼   ► - Hey, whatever it takes.

01:07:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:07:04 ◼   ► - Yeah, it got Mini right, but you know,

01:07:06 ◼   ► Mac and iPad, it's confusing.

01:07:08 ◼   ► - So you mentioned Ming-Chi Kuo,

01:07:09 ◼   ► the prediction came out with a bunch of other stuff,

01:07:11 ◼   ► but Kuo is saying that it will have an upgraded processor

01:07:15 ◼   ► and a lower cost panel.

01:07:17 ◼   ► It might not be shown off next week,

01:07:19 ◼   ► he kinda says he's not sure about that,

01:07:21 ◼   ► but it is coming apparently.

01:07:23 ◼   ► - It could be a website refresh.

01:07:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, it doesn't need to be a big thing,

01:07:26 ◼   ► it doesn't need to be high end,

01:07:27 ◼   ► it doesn't need to be fancy,

01:07:29 ◼   ► it just needs to be like,

01:07:31 ◼   ► people who want this product

01:07:32 ◼   ► want to be able to keep buying them

01:07:34 ◼   ► with newer guts in them more than every 10 years.

01:07:37 ◼   ► Like if that's all it was,

01:07:38 ◼   ► just a processor and a different panel.

01:07:40 ◼   ► - That's enough.

01:07:41 ◼   ► - But it would be a waste of time to put it on stage, right?

01:07:43 ◼   ► Like you would have other stuff

01:07:45 ◼   ► that you could probably spend more time on.

01:07:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, when they introduced,

01:07:48 ◼   ► I think it was the iPad Mini 4,

01:07:50 ◼   ► it was with an iPad Air event.

01:07:51 ◼   ► I think, I'm pretty sure it was the 4.

01:07:53 ◼   ► It was like, oh, we also have the iPad Mini 4,

01:07:54 ◼   ► and Phil's like, what's an iPad Mini 4?

01:07:56 ◼   ► It's the Mini 3 with Touch ID.

01:07:58 ◼   ► Two sentences, 12 years ago, and we're still here.

01:08:02 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:08:03 ◼   ► I mean to be fair that really was all it was.

01:08:05 ◼   ► It's literally all it was.

01:08:06 ◼   ► I'm in the same boat.

01:08:08 ◼   ► My kids have an iPad mini too.

01:08:10 ◼   ► I did put iOS 12 on it.

01:08:11 ◼   ► Don't do that.

01:08:12 ◼   ► Thanks.

01:08:13 ◼   ► It's not good.

01:08:14 ◼   ► Also he's going to lose flight control.

01:08:15 ◼   ► Oh man.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Yeah keep him in the world where flight control exists.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:08:21 ◼   ► Please.

01:08:22 ◼   ► This is a happy time.

01:08:23 ◼   ► Keep him happy.

01:08:24 ◼   ► This would be awesome.

01:08:26 ◼   ► I think too that obviously you have kids in schools and I agree with you I don't think

01:08:30 ◼   ► it'd have a pencil, but like I kind of wish it would.

01:08:34 ◼   ► Like the iPad mini is such a great size.

01:08:37 ◼   ► Like it'd be kind of a great to have like a little

01:08:38 ◼   ► like tablet for sketching and like I could see people

01:08:41 ◼   ► liking it 'cause it's extremely portable

01:08:43 ◼   ► and you could use it as a notebook,

01:08:45 ◼   ► like as actual like physical notebook replacement.

01:08:48 ◼   ► But I think that time's probably passed,

01:08:50 ◼   ► but it would make me happy to most definitely.

01:08:53 ◼   ► So mine, my last one, I'm leaning hard into

01:08:59 ◼   ► this makes us happy, this in no way is a prediction.

01:09:04 ◼   ► This in no way is a prediction.

01:09:06 ◼   ► I can't underscore that enough.

01:09:08 ◼   ► It would make me happy, it would make John Syracuse happy.

01:09:14 ◼   ► - Happiest of all.

01:09:15 ◼   ► - But most importantly, it would make Casey miserable.

01:09:18 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:09:21 ◼   ► I would love to see a Mac Pro preview.

01:09:25 ◼   ► Now, Mac Pro.

01:09:27 ◼   ► (audience applauding)

01:09:31 ◼   ► This is totally a WWDC thing

01:09:33 ◼   ► and it'll be out the end of the year.

01:09:34 ◼   ► I understand that.

01:09:36 ◼   ► But a boy can dream.

01:09:38 ◼   ► And this boy dreams of Mac Pros.

01:09:40 ◼   ► I have an iMac Pro, I'm extremely happy with it.

01:09:43 ◼   ► It will be my computer for a long time.

01:09:46 ◼   ► It's the best Mac I've ever owned.

01:09:47 ◼   ► I really love the all-in-one lifestyle.

01:09:49 ◼   ► Marco, you've been converted to this as well.

01:09:51 ◼   ► We just don't have cables everywhere.

01:09:53 ◼   ► It's like, it's all here and you can take it to the beach.

01:09:55 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:09:58 ◼   ► - Do whatever.

01:09:58 ◼   ► - I honestly wanted for that, that sounds awesome.

01:10:01 ◼   ► - But if this event is gonna make Mac people happy,

01:10:07 ◼   ► and I think it will, why not just go all the way?

01:10:10 ◼   ► Like why not make them all the way happy?

01:10:11 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's really far away.

01:10:13 ◼   ► - Why, why does it take so long to build a tower?

01:10:15 ◼   ► Like, Dell does 32 a week, like just do it!

01:10:19 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:10:20 ◼   ► You know?

01:10:21 ◼   ► - Triangles are pretty hard to build.

01:10:22 ◼   ► - Oh my gosh.

01:10:24 ◼   ► If they make a triangular Mac Pro, I am done.

01:10:27 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:10:29 ◼   ► I'm gonna build a Hackintosh.

01:10:30 ◼   ► - You know they're gonna do something weird.

01:10:32 ◼   ► You know, they can't just make a tower.

01:10:34 ◼   ► They can't swallow their pride.

01:10:36 ◼   ► Honestly, they're not confident enough to just make a tower.

01:10:39 ◼   ► They need to show off.

01:10:40 ◼   ► They need to do something crazy and innovative.

01:10:43 ◼   ► So it's gonna be something weird about it, you know there is.

01:10:46 ◼   ► - So I don't know about y'all, y'all referring

01:10:48 ◼   ► to the audience, but when I travel to different cities,

01:10:52 ◼   ► I end up in Apple stores.

01:10:53 ◼   ► Like, I've been to five in the last three days, and they're all amazing and different

01:10:59 ◼   ► in every way.

01:11:01 ◼   ► But there's a table in the Apple Store that I call the table of extremes.

01:11:08 ◼   ► There are four things on this table.

01:11:10 ◼   ► There's the regular iMac, which is fine, whatever.

01:11:13 ◼   ► They have the iMac Pro, which is like, go Team Space Gray.

01:11:17 ◼   ► But then they have a Mac Mini, just one,

01:11:21 ◼   ► and they have the 2013 Mac Pro.

01:11:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:25 ◼   ► Which I've never owned one,

01:11:28 ◼   ► both of these two gentlemen have.

01:11:30 ◼   ► Neither of them own it now.

01:11:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:11:33 ◼   ► And I see it and I'm just like, what happened?

01:11:36 ◼   ► And we know what happened, right?

01:11:39 ◼   ► We know that they designed something that was silly

01:11:41 ◼   ► and they couldn't put additional parts in.

01:11:43 ◼   ► - I was so excited to buy that machine.

01:11:45 ◼   ► - I know.

01:11:46 ◼   ► It was nothing but a problem. Like it did the worst thing any computer can do it just completely

01:11:56 ◼   ► would freeze. Just and lose recordings. Yeah well that yeah would lose all of my audio. The only

01:12:03 ◼   ► thing to do was to unplug it from the wall. Which is good for computers. They like that.

01:12:07 ◼   ► And it would do it like every two days. Yeah. And that Pro market is still hurting from that.

01:12:17 ◼   ► And the iMac Pro has taken care of some of us. Like, I want to see what the Mac Pro is,

01:12:22 ◼   ► but it's not on my radar as an upgrade. Like the iMac Pro...

01:12:25 ◼   ► Really?

01:12:26 ◼   ► Really. Like I really... I know like the thing on connected is "haha,

01:12:29 ◼   ► Steven buys things and returns them."

01:12:31 ◼   ► No, you will.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Marco and I are the same in this way. But the...

01:12:35 ◼   ► At least like I'm not under any delusion here. I know I'm gonna buy it.

01:12:37 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:12:38 ◼   ► - That's the difference between the two of us, maybe.

01:12:41 ◼   ► But I just think those people deserve to know

01:12:44 ◼   ► what's going on and it'd be great.

01:12:46 ◼   ► And it'd make me really happy because we could talk

01:12:49 ◼   ► about that instead of iPads.

01:12:50 ◼   ► Marco, let's do this.

01:12:53 ◼   ► Can we negotiate a trade for, I'll come on ATP

01:12:57 ◼   ► and talk about Mac Pros.

01:12:59 ◼   ► And Casey can come on Connected and talk about--

01:13:02 ◼   ► - That'll work. - About iPads.

01:13:03 ◼   ► - Jeeps. - Jeeps.

01:13:05 ◼   ► - Oh, there we go.

01:13:06 ◼   ► - I wanna talk to Casey about Jeeps.

01:13:07 ◼   ► - Oh, without you?

01:13:08 ◼   ► Yeah, that'd be weird.

01:13:09 ◼   ► - We should talk about Jeeps.

01:13:10 ◼   ► We gotta come up with some sort of system,

01:13:12 ◼   ► but I think it'd be great,

01:13:13 ◼   ► and I think people would be really enthusiastic about it.

01:13:16 ◼   ► And you know, Marco, you said this really smart thing

01:13:19 ◼   ► that I wish I had come up with,

01:13:20 ◼   ► so I just steal it from you all the time,

01:13:22 ◼   ► is like Apple is writing chapter after chapter

01:13:27 ◼   ► to Mac users, fixing things in the past,

01:13:29 ◼   ► or getting it back on track.

01:13:30 ◼   ► And this is like, I'm gonna mix my metaphors,

01:13:34 ◼   ► but this is like the crescendo.

01:13:36 ◼   ► This is like the final song.

01:13:37 ◼   ► Like this is the thing where everybody gets up and cheers

01:13:39 ◼   ► at the end, at least me and John.

01:13:41 ◼   ► And it's just time.

01:13:44 ◼   ► Like, you know, I'm sure we're gonna see it,

01:13:46 ◼   ► but I'd love to see it.

01:13:46 ◼   ► And now I've talked about the Mac Pro way longer

01:13:50 ◼   ► than anyone wants me to.

01:13:51 ◼   ► - It's not gonna happen.

01:13:53 ◼   ► - I know.

01:13:53 ◼   ► - I can tell you what I think will happen.

01:13:56 ◼   ► There will be a line given to Matt Pansarino

01:13:58 ◼   ► that they're working on.

01:13:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, he's got the inside line on the Mac Pro.

01:14:02 ◼   ► - Like, I think if there is a bunch of Mac stuff,

01:14:05 ◼   ► Like, they will acknowledge that it is still on the way.

01:14:09 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:10 ◼   ► - But I don't, I mean, the best place,

01:14:12 ◼   ► if they're gonna show any teaser for this, is WWDC.

01:14:15 ◼   ► - Do you know the story about,

01:14:16 ◼   ► so when he did the round tables,

01:14:18 ◼   ► like him and Gruber and a couple other people.

01:14:22 ◼   ► So I've read all of them, right,

01:14:23 ◼   ► 'cause I'm gonna read all of them.

01:14:26 ◼   ► And in Panzorino's there was, I love Matt's writing

01:14:30 ◼   ► 'cause he does all these little details.

01:14:32 ◼   ► And it was like, oh, in the lobby of this building

01:14:34 ◼   ► there was a display case with a bunch of old Macs in it.

01:14:36 ◼   ► It was like, sign me up.

01:14:38 ◼   ► And so I'm reading through this,

01:14:39 ◼   ► so I'm comparing my collection to their collection.

01:14:42 ◼   ► - Got it, as you do. - Got it.

01:14:44 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Need, got.

01:14:47 ◼   ► - And he had a funny thing in there

01:14:49 ◼   ► that is like the 20th anniversary iMac.

01:14:51 ◼   ► He's like, well, that's not a computer.

01:14:53 ◼   ► Like the 20th anniversary Mac is.

01:14:55 ◼   ► And so I DMD him, I said, hey,

01:14:57 ◼   ► I'm the only person on the,

01:14:58 ◼   ► literally the only person on the planet

01:14:59 ◼   ► who cares about this, but you have a typo here.

01:15:02 ◼   ► and he fixed it and so really, when the Mac Pro shows up,

01:15:05 ◼   ► it's because of me.

01:15:07 ◼   ► - That is a real tenuous link

01:15:09 ◼   ► that you have drawn there, my friend.

01:15:10 ◼   ► I don't think that's got anything to do with anything.

01:15:12 ◼   ► - We're talking about things that make us happy, Myke.

01:15:14 ◼   ► - Okay, then yes, it's all because of you.

01:15:17 ◼   ► Whatever brings the Mac Pro here, we'll take it.

01:15:18 ◼   ► - Whatever, like who do we have to sacrifice?

01:15:21 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:15:25 ◼   ► I love you, buddy.

01:15:25 ◼   ► - I will buy one probably.

01:15:27 ◼   ► I think I'm gonna be the one that ends up buying one.

01:15:29 ◼   ► - I think so too, 'cause you want it for--

01:15:31 ◼   ► - Ever.

01:15:31 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:15:33 ◼   ► - You want something you can upgrade, you can do VR on.

01:15:35 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, like not another VR.

01:15:37 ◼   ► I have an incredible gaming PC.

01:15:38 ◼   ► I don't need to mess around with this Mac stuff.

01:15:40 ◼   ► - It has LEDs in it, so it's cool.

01:15:41 ◼   ► - My gaming PC is incredible. - Lots of LEDs.

01:15:43 ◼   ► - Everyone that's seen it, including these two,

01:15:45 ◼   ► absolutely love it.

01:15:46 ◼   ► - Yeah, so I want to build one, I just don't want to own one.

01:15:48 ◼   ► - Yeah, right? (audience laughing)

01:15:50 ◼   ► Building is most of the fun.

01:15:51 ◼   ► - It's so good, I love it.

01:15:52 ◼   ► Then you get to the Windows part and it gets a lot less fun.

01:15:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, you can just pay little attention to it.

01:15:58 ◼   ► I deal with Windows as little as possible,

01:16:00 ◼   ► But like I do have these funny things.

01:16:02 ◼   ► I have like an audio box called the Tascam,

01:16:06 ◼   ► which on the Mac you just plug it in and it's fine.

01:16:08 ◼   ► On Windows you plug it in and it's like all these pieces

01:16:10 ◼   ► of software load every single time and do nothing.

01:16:13 ◼   ► Like it's just like confirming that it's on.

01:16:16 ◼   ► And it loads every single time.

01:16:19 ◼   ► And then one time I upgraded Windows

01:16:21 ◼   ► and then it stopped working.

01:16:23 ◼   ► So I had to downgrade the driver by two versions

01:16:26 ◼   ► and then it works again.

01:16:28 ◼   ► And then sometimes it just doesn't work

01:16:31 ◼   ► and I have to unplug it and plug it back in again

01:16:33 ◼   ► and it works again.

01:16:34 ◼   ► Like this is what it's like.

01:16:36 ◼   ► Deliver a Windows machine.

01:16:37 ◼   ► - This has been a solved problem

01:16:38 ◼   ► with like standard HID audio drivers for USB devices.

01:16:42 ◼   ► - Yeah, right to build.

01:16:43 ◼   ► - Since before I bet someone here was born.

01:16:45 ◼   ► Like if there's anyone here who's like 20 or younger,

01:16:47 ◼   ► chances are this problem has been solved

01:16:50 ◼   ► before you were born.

01:16:51 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:16:52 ◼   ► - But they just don't care.

01:16:53 ◼   ► Like drivers, man, it's the way of the past.

01:16:56 ◼   ► So I would like to pick for my final pick,

01:17:00 ◼   ► there's a theme, there's a consistent theme

01:17:01 ◼   ► running through all of mine,

01:17:02 ◼   ► and the end is I want a laptop style iPad keyboard cover.

01:17:07 ◼   ► - How is this different from wanting a track pad?

01:17:09 ◼   ► - It will have a track pad in it.

01:17:11 ◼   ► - This is not three different products.

01:17:13 ◼   ► (audience laughing)

01:17:16 ◼   ► - There is a difference, there is a difference.

01:17:21 ◼   ► So I, with my 12.9 inch iPad Pro,

01:17:24 ◼   ► I am a very, very happy user of the Brydge keyboard.

01:17:28 ◼   ► It is wonderful.

01:17:30 ◼   ► It is just the bottom of a MacBook, basically.

01:17:32 ◼   ► - You got one that works?

01:17:33 ◼   ► - It works now.

01:17:34 ◼   ► So I would say the first edition,

01:17:35 ◼   ► like the first version of it, was garbage.

01:17:38 ◼   ► It never worked, just didn't work.

01:17:40 ◼   ► Second version, I have it, it's perfect.

01:17:41 ◼   ► I know a few other people that have it,

01:17:43 ◼   ► like they fixed the problems they were having with Bluetooth.

01:17:45 ◼   ► They had some Bluetooth issues.

01:17:47 ◼   ► But basically this thing,

01:17:48 ◼   ► it's basically the bottom of a laptop

01:17:51 ◼   ► with this really cool little hinge system.

01:17:53 ◼   ► You put the iPad in it, you can open and close it,

01:17:55 ◼   ► it is adjustable, I love it.

01:17:56 ◼   ► But I want Apple to make one of these for a few reasons.

01:17:59 ◼   ► I want them, well one, good keyboard, right?

01:18:03 ◼   ► Let's hope, let's see, good timeline,

01:18:04 ◼   ► they're making a good keyboard, right?

01:18:06 ◼   ► Like we're just assuming this has got a good keyboard.

01:18:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is a heavy meter.

01:18:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's good keyboard.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Backlit keys, I would love backlit keys.

01:18:12 ◼   ► The Brydge has backlit keys,

01:18:13 ◼   ► but it has a battery and the battery dies.

01:18:16 ◼   ► I want this thing that Apple makes

01:18:18 ◼   ► to be a smart connector product, so there's no charging.

01:18:22 ◼   ► So it has backlit keys, which does exist.

01:18:24 ◼   ► Logitech make a keyboard,

01:18:26 ◼   ► which is powered by the smart connector, which is rubbish,

01:18:29 ◼   ► but it has backlit keys, so it's possible to do it.

01:18:32 ◼   ► But we're assuming that the smart connector

01:18:34 ◼   ► is gonna be better,

01:18:35 ◼   ► and that's what that thing is on the back.

01:18:36 ◼   ► Maybe, probably, we'll see.

01:18:38 ◼   ► So no charging, 'cause I don't wanna charge it.

01:18:40 ◼   ► I hate having to charge it, it's annoying.

01:18:41 ◼   ► Like it's a keyboard, I don't wanna charge it.

01:18:43 ◼   ► But I like the adjustable hinge,

01:18:46 ◼   ► because then I can kind of sit in any position.

01:18:48 ◼   ► It's like a laptop,

01:18:49 ◼   ► because the problem with the smart keyboard is it is in one way.

01:18:52 ◼   ► Like that's all it is. It's just this one way.

01:18:54 ◼   ► And it's not very easy on the lap and stuff like that.

01:18:57 ◼   ► It's just not very comfortable.

01:18:58 ◼   ► So I would love to see what Apple could do to make basically the iPad be a laptop.

01:19:04 ◼   ► You put a trackpad on it, has wonderful keys, smart connector, the whole deal.

01:19:09 ◼   ► I think it should just go the whole way.

01:19:10 ◼   ► It's the best way to use an iPad.

01:19:12 ◼   ► Go for it.

01:19:13 ◼   ► What if...

01:19:14 ◼   ► So in the old ThinkPads, you had what was called the ThinkLite.

01:19:18 ◼   ► So it wasn't a backlit key

01:19:20 ◼   ► It was a little light at the top of the display

01:19:24 ◼   ► I don't want that and it would shine down on the keyboard

01:19:28 ◼   ► That's awesome. But the problem is if you need to see the spacebar you had to close your laptop a little bit like move the

01:19:33 ◼   ► light

01:19:34 ◼   ► So maybe they did that on the iPad maybe you know that magnetic connectors pretty hot

01:19:38 ◼   ► High up on the back. It's to clip on the light

01:19:41 ◼   ► man

01:19:43 ◼   ► The hardware, the weirdness of the ThinkPad, there were so many strange things that these things did.

01:19:51 ◼   ► If Apple only made software, like the little red nubbin thing, if Apple only made software and I could run Mac OS on anything,

01:19:58 ◼   ► I would put it on a ThinkPad. Oh, yeah. 100%.

01:20:00 ◼   ► Casey's dying right now not being able to be in this episode.

01:20:03 ◼   ► Yep. I know. Okay, so we'll do a ThinkPad episode and you have him on.

01:20:07 ◼   ► Backlight, I mean backlight would be awesome.

01:20:09 ◼   ► I know I like talking on the show a big game,

01:20:11 ◼   ► but I use my iPad a lot.

01:20:12 ◼   ► And I use it a lot in particular,

01:20:15 ◼   ► I don't like bringing my laptop in for my studio,

01:20:17 ◼   ► 'cause then it means I've brought work into the house.

01:20:20 ◼   ► But if I have to do a little show prep

01:20:22 ◼   ► or do some email on the evening--

01:20:23 ◼   ► - 'Cause you can't get work done?

01:20:24 ◼   ► - No, real work is done on the iPad.

01:20:26 ◼   ► - But what kills me, honestly,

01:20:27 ◼   ► 'cause I'll do it in the evening,

01:20:29 ◼   ► maybe we're watching TV,

01:20:30 ◼   ► or maybe even my wife's gone to bed

01:20:32 ◼   ► and I'm gonna stay up for a little bit,

01:20:33 ◼   ► the backlit keyboard, it's kind of a deal breaker,

01:20:36 ◼   ► because I'm not a great touch typist,

01:20:38 ◼   ► I can kind of get by.

01:20:39 ◼   ► but I feel imprecise without it.

01:20:42 ◼   ► It would be great.

01:20:43 ◼   ► And like you said, the Logitech One has proved

01:20:45 ◼   ► that it's possible.

01:20:47 ◼   ► And I really, there's a whole 'nother conversation here

01:20:50 ◼   ► about the smart connector and making it more useful

01:20:54 ◼   ► and more robust.

01:20:56 ◼   ► And part of that would be like,

01:20:57 ◼   ► maybe the back of the thing is power

01:20:59 ◼   ► and Logitech figured it out, but it'd be great.

01:21:02 ◼   ► - There is this kind of, I think, a weird perception

01:21:05 ◼   ► amongst like the wider tech press

01:21:07 ◼   ► that the stuff from Microsoft and Google are more,

01:21:11 ◼   ► you can do better work on them

01:21:14 ◼   ► because they have better keyboards,

01:21:16 ◼   ► which doesn't make any sense.

01:21:17 ◼   ► The iPad is so much better than these things.

01:21:20 ◼   ► It's just, me and Federico got really upset

01:21:23 ◼   ► about this a couple of weeks ago.

01:21:24 ◼   ► I don't want to get into it again.

01:21:25 ◼   ► But the smart keyboard does a great job.

01:21:28 ◼   ► - It's a good keyboard.

01:21:29 ◼   ► - It does a great job.

01:21:30 ◼   ► And I love that it's so portable.

01:21:32 ◼   ► One of the bad things about the bridge is

01:21:34 ◼   ► the 12.9 is already big and heavy.

01:21:36 ◼   ► that makes it a lot bigger and a lot heavier.

01:21:38 ◼   ► Like, and that is the downside of this stuff.

01:21:40 ◼   ► So honestly, like, if Apple do make something like this,

01:21:43 ◼   ► which I would love,

01:21:44 ◼   ► I still want the smart keyboard to exist as well.

01:21:46 ◼   ► Like, I think that both products would be really great.

01:21:48 ◼   ► - Like a smart keyboard and a smart keyboard Pro.

01:21:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, something like that, right?

01:21:51 ◼   ► But like, there's one that is like this

01:21:54 ◼   ► just to cover on the case,

01:21:55 ◼   ► 'cause really, probably the best way for Apple to do it

01:21:58 ◼   ► is like, it would have to be pretty significant

01:22:00 ◼   ► on the back as well as the front

01:22:01 ◼   ► to allow for some kind of hinge to be really,

01:22:04 ◼   ► to be really heavy. - Yeah, and it would be

01:22:05 ◼   ► heavy and it would be heavy it makes the iPad the thickness and heaviness of a

01:22:10 ◼   ► laptop and that comes with some great stuff it comes in some not great stuff

01:22:14 ◼   ► so I would love to have choices I would love to have choices right like that is

01:22:19 ◼   ► like I would love Apple to provide me with choices because this is a wonderful

01:22:25 ◼   ► computer that was the promise of the smart connector and just hasn't panned

01:22:28 ◼   ► out yeah yeah well I think we've seen too like there's certain areas where

01:22:31 ◼   ► Apple just can't depend on third parties like certain peripherals certain

01:22:35 ◼   ► types of things, they make a standard and it just falls on the floor to third parties.

01:22:39 ◼   ► Like no one ever does anything with it. Smart Connectors is obviously one of those. I'm

01:22:42 ◼   ► rounding down to zero. I think that's fair. There's been zero things for it basically.

01:22:46 ◼   ► There's nothing of any real use honestly.

01:22:48 ◼   ► Except for Apple's own keyboard. And so like this is an area where like if Apple wants

01:22:53 ◼   ► the useful things to exist in this category, they have to make them themselves.

01:22:58 ◼   ► Maybe they just license Smart Connector dongles. Plug anything into it. Think about it.

01:23:04 ◼   ► I'm really confused now.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Wait, so like, the dongle goes on magnetically

01:23:08 ◼   ► and you can plug what into it?

01:23:09 ◼   ► - Smart to USB?

01:23:10 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:11 ◼   ► - Well, so it would be smart to USB-C

01:23:13 ◼   ► and then you need a second one for USB-C to USB-A.

01:23:15 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:23:16 ◼   ► - And then you can plug in your keyboard.

01:23:17 ◼   ► - And then your SD card reader is down and down and down.

01:23:21 ◼   ► Yeah, wrapped up in this, if we had another round,

01:23:23 ◼   ► I really think we don't.

01:23:25 ◼   ► We don't.

01:23:26 ◼   ► Let's say if we did a Briont, you're dead, which we're not,

01:23:28 ◼   ► 'cause again, we couldn't license the technology.

01:23:29 ◼   ► - It's not a draft.

01:23:30 ◼   ► - Like, a smart connector story matters,