Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Hello and welcome to Connected episode 217.

00:00:11 ◼   ► It's brought to you this week by Squarespace,

00:00:13 ◼   ► Simple Contacts, and Luna Display.

00:00:16 ◼   ► I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:17 ◼   ► and I'm joined as always by my two co-hosts.

00:00:20 ◼   ► I have Federico Vittucci.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Hello, Steven.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - Hello, Federico, how are you?

00:00:25 ◼   ► - I'm doing great.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I'm in front of a 4K display for serious Mac users, but I'm not a serious Mac user, so

00:00:32 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on.

00:00:34 ◼   ► Something's off here.

00:00:37 ◼   ► Something's happened.

00:00:38 ◼   ► We'll get to that, I think.

00:00:40 ◼   ► And we're also joined by very serious Mac user and gaming PC enthusiast, Myke Hurley.

00:00:46 ◼   ► You can't do real gaming on a Macintosh.

00:00:49 ◼   ► So I tweeted this a couple of days ago, because we're gonna get into this big iPad stuff,

00:00:54 ◼   ► And I was kind of just being a fool, and I tweeted, "You can't do real gaming on a Macintosh,"

00:01:00 ◼   ► and it was just really funny to see the replies. Because all I was doing, it's just the opposite

00:01:05 ◼   ► of, "You can't do real work on an iPad," right? It's the same argument.

00:01:12 ◼   ► Everybody knows that.

00:01:13 ◼   ► Although I would actually say that it is more true that you can't do real gaming on a Mac.

00:01:18 ◼   ► You're not wrong, but you were just like, you're not just stirring up the beehive, like

00:01:23 ◼   ► were just like full out just like I don't know just like jumping in head

00:01:27 ◼   ► first to the beehive my analogies got mixed up we should just move on to

00:01:32 ◼   ► follow up because that happens at the beginning of the show I would hate to

00:01:35 ◼   ► dive in head first into a beehive it would be very soft like one of those

00:01:40 ◼   ► some people do that for a living like nobody does that nobody dives head first

00:01:45 ◼   ► they do you know that with the with the astronaut suit they don't go head first

00:01:50 ◼   ► What would be the point of that?

00:01:52 ◼   ► I wouldn't help anything!

00:01:54 ◼   ► Maybe because it's fun?

00:01:56 ◼   ► I'm coming in! I'm coming in!

00:01:58 ◼   ► Your job is to A) look after the bees

00:02:00 ◼   ► and B) get the honey

00:02:02 ◼   ► You do neither if you go ahead first

00:02:04 ◼   ► You can take the plunge if you have protection

00:02:06 ◼   ► You know, that's my way of life

00:02:10 ◼   ► Follow up! We have some follow up

00:02:12 ◼   ► At some point over the last few weeks

00:02:16 ◼   ► we were talking about the number of

00:02:18 ◼   ► about the number of Mac notebooks you can buy.

00:02:22 ◼   ► And I think it was a question from Twitter

00:02:24 ◼   ► about if this is the biggest number.

00:02:27 ◼   ► And I thought, yes, yes it is.

00:02:28 ◼   ► But turns out, no, no it's not.

00:02:31 ◼   ► So this comes from Ed Cormany.

00:02:34 ◼   ► He is a buddy of mine.

00:02:35 ◼   ► He hosts a podcast called Simple Beep.

00:02:37 ◼   ► So if you like Apple history stuff,

00:02:39 ◼   ► you should go check that out.

00:02:40 ◼   ► There'll be a link in the show notes.

00:02:41 ◼   ► It's a really fun show.

00:02:43 ◼   ► And somehow I'm in their slack for that podcast.

00:02:46 ◼   ► There's like the two of them and then me.

00:02:48 ◼   ► It's because you are their patronus.

00:02:52 ◼   ► I met Ed at the New York Life Show

00:02:54 ◼   ► and told him how much you love their show.

00:02:58 ◼   ► Yeah, I do love their show very much.

00:03:00 ◼   ► So go check it out.

00:03:01 ◼   ► Anyways, so Ed pointed out that for a brief moment in 1995,

00:03:06 ◼   ► Apple's PowerBook line was bonkers.

00:03:09 ◼   ► So I'm just going to read these models.

00:03:10 ◼   ► You too are like best friends.

00:03:12 ◼   ► It must be.

00:03:12 ◼   ► Like, this is just like the most Stephen Hackett follow up.

00:03:16 ◼   ► Briefly in 1995.

00:03:19 ◼   ► It's like, oh, god.

00:03:20 ◼   ► I just want to be correct, because we have listeners

00:03:23 ◼   ► who they may be questioned on this at some point

00:03:25 ◼   ► in their lives, and I don't want to leave them astray.

00:03:27 ◼   ► Just you and Ed, the only two people that one, no, or two

00:03:31 ◼   ► care about this.

00:03:33 ◼   ► But please, please fill everyone in.

00:03:35 ◼   ► All right.

00:03:36 ◼   ► PowerBook 145B, the PowerBook 165, the PowerBook 230,

00:03:41 ◼   ► the PowerBook 280, and then you get to the color models.

00:03:44 ◼   ► The PowerBook 280c, the PowerBook 520c,

00:03:48 ◼   ► and the PowerBook 540c.

00:03:51 ◼   ► This is from a Wikipedia timeline of Mac models,

00:03:55 ◼   ► so I'm assuming that it's correct.

00:03:56 ◼   ► I didn't go and verify, but that is a mountain of computers.

00:04:01 ◼   ► Yeah, so we talk about transitions in computing,

00:04:05 ◼   ► like Intel and ARM.

00:04:07 ◼   ► In the mid-90s, we were going from grayscale

00:04:10 ◼   ► to color screens.

00:04:11 ◼   ► Can you imagine what it must have felt like

00:04:12 ◼   ► to get your first color screen on a computer.

00:04:14 ◼   ► Like we're all too young to remember that,

00:04:16 ◼   ► but it must have been mind blowing.

00:04:18 ◼   ► Right now somewhere Dr. Drang is keeling over dead

00:04:21 ◼   ► thinking about how young we are.

00:04:22 ◼   ► - Federico, which one of those was your favorite?

00:04:24 ◼   ► - I mean for sure the 165,

00:04:30 ◼   ► I have fond memories of the PowerBook 165, you know,

00:04:35 ◼   ► because it could only handle 165 files on the disk.

00:04:39 ◼   ► - That's why they wrote the numbers, man.

00:04:41 ◼   ► - So you had to do, you know, it was like,

00:04:44 ◼   ► like it forced you to be sort of like a Zen,

00:04:47 ◼   ► you know, approach to computing.

00:04:48 ◼   ► You can only have 165 files.

00:04:50 ◼   ► So what you're gonna choose, you know,

00:04:52 ◼   ► like all your, your, your Claris works documents,

00:04:56 ◼   ► you know, you had to be really picky about those

00:04:59 ◼   ► because you, you know, if you saved one,

00:05:01 ◼   ► well now it's 164.

00:05:03 ◼   ► So, you know, good times, good times.

00:05:06 ◼   ► - Oh, the number would go down, like it started.

00:05:08 ◼   ► - The number would go down and when it reached zero,

00:05:10 ◼   ► you had to return the computer. You're done. It's full up now. So what do you think is

00:05:16 ◼   ► going to happen? I can't put any more files in this thing. Please take it back. We also

00:05:23 ◼   ► have spoken about the performance of the MacBook Air and I spent some time with one today,

00:05:30 ◼   ► not really enough time to like have any deep impressions except that it's a really nice

00:05:33 ◼   ► laptop and I think it's, I agree with what Jason said on upgrade this week that I think

00:05:37 ◼   ► It's like the default Mac notebook now.

00:05:39 ◼   ► MacRumors had put together a bunch of performance stuff

00:05:44 ◼   ► on the new machines, and the MacBook Air is solidly

00:05:47 ◼   ► in between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro.

00:05:52 ◼   ► In some cases, very close to that MacBook Pro

00:05:55 ◼   ► with two ports and no touch bar, the escape model.

00:05:59 ◼   ► Actually, very close to that in single core performance,

00:06:01 ◼   ► which is pretty interesting.

00:06:04 ◼   ► And then there's the Mac Mini, which the 6-core i7--

00:06:10 ◼   ► this is so sad--

00:06:12 ◼   ► I'm quoting-- "closely matches the 2013 Mac Pro models

00:06:16 ◼   ► when it comes to multi-core performance

00:06:18 ◼   ► and exceeds them when it comes to single-core performance."

00:06:21 ◼   ► So rest in peace, 2013 Mac Pro.

00:06:26 ◼   ► Can I just say about that Mac Mini?

00:06:28 ◼   ► So Marco got a review in it.

00:06:30 ◼   ► He did a really great video and written review.

00:06:33 ◼   ► And he did a bunch of like, interesting tests.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Like they were tests that I could like fathom because the,

00:06:41 ◼   ► the Geekbench stuff, like, I don't know what it like, what,

00:06:44 ◼   ► what am I supposed to do with those numbers? Like, hooray, I can bench geeks.

00:06:48 ◼   ► Like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do with that stuff. But like he did,

00:06:52 ◼   ► he did a bunch of like things that are broken down into seconds and minutes and

00:06:56 ◼   ► the Mac mini is like surprisingly close to the iMac Pro.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Like the 10 core iMac Pro.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Like I kind of cannot believe how much power

00:07:10 ◼   ► that machine has.

00:07:11 ◼   ► Like that, it is pretty astounding I think.

00:07:14 ◼   ► - I forget where, I think Marco said it somewhere,

00:07:17 ◼   ► maybe Jason did.

00:07:18 ◼   ► I have consumed a lot of stuff this week, but--

00:07:21 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's been really good.

00:07:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, someone smarter than me said,

00:07:25 ◼   ► you know, had this really interesting point,

00:07:26 ◼   ► like the Mac Mini now defines like the entry level Mac Pro.

00:07:30 ◼   ► Like, the Mac Pro will be better than this machine, probably notably.

00:07:34 ◼   ► Which makes me excited about the Mac Pro.

00:07:36 ◼   ► Isn't that exciting, right?

00:07:37 ◼   ► Like, how good is it gonna be?

00:07:39 ◼   ► It's gonna be so good!

00:07:40 ◼   ► I'm genuinely, like, really excited to see the Mac Pro now.

00:07:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:46 ◼   ► Because, like, just how much of a beast is that thing gonna be?

00:07:49 ◼   ► That's very exciting.

00:07:50 ◼   ► It's gonna be stellar.

00:07:51 ◼   ► But what's so interesting is, you know, Apple said, "Well, the Mac Mini is for pros," and

00:07:57 ◼   ► They didn't really share this side of it, I think, very well in the keynote.

00:08:01 ◼   ► They said how much faster it was than the old one, but that thing was 19 years old.

00:08:07 ◼   ► Anything would be faster than that.

00:08:11 ◼   ► It's really exciting to see, at least if you spec it up and get an expensive one.

00:08:14 ◼   ► This is the i7, this is an expensive Mac Mini.

00:08:16 ◼   ► This is faster than the one that is out for delivery at my house right now.

00:08:21 ◼   ► If you need something really powerful and small, the Mac Mini is a viable option.

00:08:26 ◼   ► And I think that's pretty exciting.

00:08:27 ◼   ► And yes, the GPU's not there,

00:08:29 ◼   ► but if you need one, you can do Thunderbolt.

00:08:31 ◼   ► And if you've thought about the Mac Mini before,

00:08:34 ◼   ► you're like, oh yeah, it'd be nice to have one for this,

00:08:36 ◼   ► like whatever this is in your life.

00:08:37 ◼   ► Like Marco's test is like building overcast in Xcode.

00:08:42 ◼   ► Like if you have that sort of job,

00:08:44 ◼   ► the Mac Mini seems like an incredible option now.

00:08:47 ◼   ► Like you're gonna pay for it,

00:08:48 ◼   ► but I'm excited to see that they really did build,

00:08:52 ◼   ► at least in custom ordering, a pro version of this thing.

00:08:55 ◼   ► I would imagine that there are a lot of people that would have bought a laptop

00:08:59 ◼   ► that can now buy a Mac Mini instead.

00:09:01 ◼   ► You know, like people that were buying a laptop because it was cheaper and they

00:09:05 ◼   ► had a display and they could just plug it in, right, rather than buying, like

00:09:09 ◼   ► going all in on like an iMac Pro or something.

00:09:11 ◼   ► There could be something there to it, but it's a very impressive computer.

00:09:15 ◼   ► And I think probably purposefully Apple didn't really

00:09:20 ◼   ► bother to go into this.

00:09:22 ◼   ► It's such a niche product that, you know, it's probably the reason they gave it to someone like Marco who can like

00:09:28 ◼   ► tell the story as somebody who is the exact target market to the people that

00:09:33 ◼   ► would be buying it, right? Like I would expect that a vast majority of people that would buy that Mac Mini have read Marco's review.

00:09:41 ◼   ► Like it is or at least would would buy it right now, you know, like getting like mine, but like people are gonna buy it immediately.

00:09:49 ◼   ► They're the people that are looking for that kind of content because it is very much a niche computer

00:09:54 ◼   ► But I think that it's really exciting that they've given it way more than anybody would have expected

00:10:00 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. They're gonna sell the bulk of them this quarter. No doubt

00:10:04 ◼   ► You know for me I got one as a home server, but like it I could do my work on a loaded Mac mini

00:10:11 ◼   ► I would need it an eGPU

00:10:12 ◼   ► But like it's a viable machine for someone even like me like I'm on the base model

00:10:17 ◼   ► iMac Pro because according to these these tests like real-world tests like

00:10:20 ◼   ► you said that Marco did it's in the ballpark for you know probably

00:10:25 ◼   ► significantly less money depending on the display and EGP you buy so do you

00:10:29 ◼   ► have it times no it is out for delivery so it'll probably be here this evening

00:10:33 ◼   ► okay I did see one in the store today it looks cool in space gray but that's all

00:10:39 ◼   ► that's all I just saw it so have I told you guys the the setup that up the that

00:10:45 ◼   ► I'm gonna get for the Mac Mini? Nope. But I don't wanna know. Alright, so... you don't

00:10:50 ◼   ► wanna know? No, I do! Don't tell me! No, I want to know! Yeah, I thought you said "I

00:10:54 ◼   ► don't wanna know", I was like "Wow, that's harsh!" Don't tell me, don't care! Get out

00:10:57 ◼   ► of here, Macs, boo! No, I wanna know. So, I'm getting the i76 core, 3.2 GHz, 16 GHz

00:11:08 ◼   ► of RAM, internal SSD 256, because I'm also getting an external 1TB SSD from Samsung I

00:11:19 ◼   ► think. I was checking out a bunch of reviews and it looked like a good one with support

00:11:23 ◼   ► for USB 3.1.

00:11:25 ◼   ► Why do you want to go external for that amount?

00:11:28 ◼   ► Because the internal storage, I feel like the Apple prices are insane for adding storage

00:11:35 ◼   ► you know, with the built-in option. So I don't need to do any serious like, like I'm not

00:11:43 ◼   ► dealing with heavy PSD assets in Photoshop. This Mac Mini is mostly going to be used as

00:11:49 ◼   ► a home server and for podcasting. And I want this to be my last Macintosh computer that

00:11:55 ◼   ► I ever buy because I really don't think that in five years I'm going to be buying a Mac

00:12:01 ◼   ► we know it today at least. So the storage is mostly going to be reserved for Plex, so

00:12:11 ◼   ► TV shows, movies, that kind of stuff, and backups. So I think with USB-C I can just

00:12:18 ◼   ► get an external SSD and leave it plugged in and just use it to store media. Unless that's

00:12:26 ◼   ► a bad idea, but I don't think it is.

00:12:28 ◼   ► No, as long as you're backing up that external drive.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Exactly, so down the road I think like maybe you know next month

00:12:35 ◼   ► I'm also gonna get like a second one so that I should have like the basically the Mac Mini

00:12:40 ◼   ► The external drive and the backup for the drive, so I should be fine also

00:12:46 ◼   ► I don't keep a lot of important files on my computer

00:12:49 ◼   ► Everything is in Dropbox essentially

00:12:52 ◼   ► I already have because I bought it today. I shared a picture on Twitter. I already have the ultra fine 4k display

00:13:00 ◼   ► from LG that I bought at the Apple store with the new iPad Pro. And it's a very

00:13:07 ◼   ► beautiful display. I don't love the design, I don't like the bezels, I don't

00:13:11 ◼   ► like the LG logo staring at me. The stand is okay, I think I'm gonna put the Mac

00:13:17 ◼   ► Mini down there. Right now there's a Triforce toy that I bought a few months

00:13:22 ◼   ► ago. It's fine, I love the display, I don't love everything around it.

00:13:30 ◼   ► if that makes sense. I so wish that Apple would make a new display, like a 5K display

00:13:39 ◼   ► from Apple that is not an iMac, so just the display. But, you know. I also didn't want

00:13:44 ◼   ► to get the 5K LG because that was too big for my desk and also it felt like it was going

00:13:51 ◼   ► to be too compromising with the iPad Pro and the Mac Mini because the 4K uses standard

00:13:57 ◼   ► USB-C to output from a Mac and from an iPad now to the 4K display.

00:14:05 ◼   ► The 5K uses Thunderbolt 3, but for some reason the iPad Pro does not support Thunderbolt

00:14:09 ◼   ► 3, just USB-C. So I thought, you know, it's a combination of the 4K is cheaper and it's

00:14:14 ◼   ► smaller so it fits my new desk better and it also works with the Mac Mini and the iPad

00:14:19 ◼   ► Pro, so it's gonna be like an interchangeable setup.

00:14:22 ◼   ► And also I'm trying to think ahead, like, I'm convinced that the iPad Pro will eventually

00:14:27 ◼   ► get trackpad support and mouse support and better integration with external keyboards.

00:14:33 ◼   ► So I'm preparing for a feature where I can just have a monitor and a single cable and

00:14:38 ◼   ► then I can choose to use either a Mac OS computer or an iPad computer.

00:14:43 ◼   ► So I'm preparing for that.

00:14:45 ◼   ► And right now I'm staring at the new 4K display, but it's connected to Sylvia's MacBook Pro,

00:14:50 ◼   ► she has a 2017 MacBook Pro.

00:14:52 ◼   ► My Mac Mini I think should be here next week, depends on when I put the order in and how

00:14:57 ◼   ► long the wait is gonna be.

00:15:00 ◼   ► This is all very exciting.

00:15:01 ◼   ► Federico buying a Mac.

00:15:05 ◼   ► My last Mac.

00:15:07 ◼   ► I think what might be better to say is it's probably your last Intel Mac.

00:15:13 ◼   ► Right?

00:15:14 ◼   ► If and when they move to ARM, they might make something that again becomes interesting to

00:15:20 ◼   ► you know maybe we'll see but yeah Mac Mini is still not here but the display is

00:15:28 ◼   ► and it's it's very nice the display itself the plastic sucks yeah it's uh

00:15:34 ◼   ► they should do something you know that it's funny there's a like some tweets

00:15:37 ◼   ► floating around like in the Mac Mini booklet there's like a picture of a

00:15:40 ◼   ► display kind of like there's a picture of air power in the XS Max so that team

00:15:44 ◼   ► is the same team working on both of those products but uh just make that one

00:15:49 ◼   ► That one looks really good.

00:15:51 ◼   ► But I guess we'll see next year with the Mac Pro.

00:15:54 ◼   ► I assume that's when we'll-- that'll all be one thing.

00:15:57 ◼   ► All right.

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00:17:48 ◼   ► - All right, so the new iPad Pros are here.

00:17:50 ◼   ► They're shipping today, they're in stores today,

00:17:54 ◼   ► and I believe that all three of us have our hands on them.

00:17:57 ◼   ► This is not a full review, we need some time to think,

00:18:00 ◼   ► but I thought we could talk about at least

00:18:02 ◼   ► our first impressions of maybe, especially the hardware,

00:18:05 ◼   ► because the iPad has been kinda the same recipe

00:18:09 ◼   ► really since the iPad mini with sort of the rounded edges,

00:18:12 ◼   ► and they've been in that design language for a long time,

00:18:15 ◼   ► and this one is a pretty drastic difference,

00:18:18 ◼   ► and I'm excited to hear what you guys think.

00:18:19 ◼   ► So Myke, you have both of them,

00:18:22 ◼   ► so maybe let's start with like the size comparison

00:18:24 ◼   ► between the two compared to the old ones?

00:18:26 ◼   ► - There is definitely a difference still

00:18:31 ◼   ► that I can very clearly see.

00:18:35 ◼   ► I think the impression that at least I had,

00:18:38 ◼   ► and I think has kind of been the general consensus

00:18:40 ◼   ► about these devices leading up to this is that like,

00:18:44 ◼   ► with the 12.9 getting smaller and then the 11 inch screen,

00:18:48 ◼   ► you know, now the 10 and a half is an 11 inch,

00:18:50 ◼   ► that they would be closer together.

00:18:54 ◼   ► But the 12.9 inch screen is still way more screen

00:18:58 ◼   ► than I want in certain circumstances.

00:19:01 ◼   ► Like, if I'm reading in bed at night or whatever,

00:19:05 ◼   ► I don't need a 13 inch screen to do that

00:19:08 ◼   ► and nor do I really want that.

00:19:11 ◼   ► And the smaller screen is definitely better for that.

00:19:16 ◼   ► And it's the same for when I travel.

00:19:19 ◼   ► Like I still...

00:19:20 ◼   ► OK, so this, the bigger iPad Pro is significantly smaller than the previous one,

00:19:25 ◼   ► but it's still noticeably bigger than the smaller one.

00:19:28 ◼   ► And I feel like for me, I was wondering, like I was like, I've been thinking like,

00:19:34 ◼   ► did I make a mistake because I got cellular on the smaller one but Wi-Fi only on the bigger one

00:19:40 ◼   ► because that's how I've done it in the past because the bigger one never leaves home

00:19:45 ◼   ► and I'm like oh man if I made a mistake like am I gonna actually want

00:19:48 ◼   ► cellular on the big one because I'm just gonna use that one and maybe return the smaller one

00:19:52 ◼   ► I don't think it's gonna happen there is still enough of a difference to me which

00:20:00 ◼   ► kind of they still fit the purposes that I had for them.

00:20:03 ◼   ► So so that's kind of the screen size differences.

00:20:06 ◼   ► It's still there.

00:20:07 ◼   ► And it is it is exactly pretty much exactly now like a 13 inch

00:20:12 ◼   ► MacBook Pro to a 15 inch MacBook Pro like

00:20:15 ◼   ► those differences on very noticeable like you put those two machines,

00:20:20 ◼   ► you put like two sizes of laptop next to each other and you're like, OK,

00:20:23 ◼   ► this is much bigger and it's heavier, you know, and all that kind of stuff.

00:20:27 ◼   ► So I think that still exists between these two iPads.

00:20:30 ◼   ► So I assume that I will be living the multi-pad lifestyle for the foreseeable future.

00:20:37 ◼   ► This is, you know, the 12.9.

00:20:41 ◼   ► Like, this is the iPad Pro for most people now, I believe.

00:20:47 ◼   ► I think the 10.5 was before, but I now think that most people would benefit from the 12.9.

00:20:55 ◼   ► I cannot believe the screen to body ratio on it.

00:21:01 ◼   ► It really is wild.

00:21:04 ◼   ► It is wild.

00:21:06 ◼   ► Yeah, the fact that it's so much smaller than before, the 12.9, it really does make a difference.

00:21:13 ◼   ► And I was comparing the...

00:21:16 ◼   ► Like I put the new iPad Pro on top of my old one today, and there's like at least one centimeter

00:21:22 ◼   ► of difference on the bottom side because the forehead and the chin have drastically been

00:21:29 ◼   ► reduced. So I feel like if you're looking for, if you never, I think it's interesting

00:21:36 ◼   ► to ask this question, if you never owned an iPad Pro, so if you still have an iPad Air

00:21:41 ◼   ► 2 or something, which one is the best for you? And so while I personally got a 12.9

00:21:49 ◼   ► cellular because this is going to be my main computer that I'm gonna work on both at home

00:21:56 ◼   ► and when I'm around. I think it's interesting to consider whether most people should do

00:22:03 ◼   ► what you did and get cellular on the 11". My main problem is that the 11" still doesn't

00:22:11 ◼   ► show you two apps in the regular size class. When you do split view it only shows you the

00:22:18 ◼   ► compact size class. So if that's a deal-breaker for you, you're gonna want to do 12.9, I think.

00:22:26 ◼   ► But also there's a question of, do you want to use this iPad when you're done working,

00:22:31 ◼   ► do you want to use it to read in bed or something, or to watch movies for example? And I do think

00:22:37 ◼   ► that in spite of the size reduction, I think it's still a little uncomfortable to read

00:22:42 ◼   ► with the 12.9", even in portrait mode for example.

00:22:47 ◼   ► So for me the big problem of the limited split view on the 11", that single problem convinced

00:22:56 ◼   ► me that I was going to stick with the 12.9".

00:22:58 ◼   ► If multitasking is not a big deal for you, I would recommend starting from the 11", because

00:23:03 ◼   ► I think it's more portable than the 12.9".

00:23:06 ◼   ► Even though as a computer, the 12.9 I think is the better deal.

00:23:12 ◼   ► I don't know if this makes sense, but basically portability is still an issue for you.

00:23:16 ◼   ► If it's really important for you to have a portable iPad, go for the 11 inch.

00:23:21 ◼   ► If you want to have a computer replacement and you don't mind the extra size basically,

00:23:30 ◼   ► I love the 12.9.

00:23:34 ◼   ► That thought process is exactly why there's a 12.9 on my desk.

00:23:38 ◼   ► I had the 12.9 initially, and then I went to the 10 5 Pro, and I'm telling y'all, going

00:23:45 ◼   ► back to the smaller size, the iPad mostly became consumption device for me because I

00:23:50 ◼   ► really like the two full-size apps side by side.

00:23:55 ◼   ► When the 11 didn't get that, I knew that I was destined for the bigger one.

00:23:59 ◼   ► Even though that does mean giving it up in some situations,

00:24:03 ◼   ► I think that for me at least,

00:24:06 ◼   ► like wanting to make a better run at doing more work on it,

00:24:10 ◼   ► that the size is a big deal.

00:24:13 ◼   ► And you know, it's funny,

00:24:16 ◼   ► one of the stores, I've seen both of them,

00:24:19 ◼   ► and they definitely still,

00:24:21 ◼   ► they feel more different than I thought they would.

00:24:24 ◼   ► I thought they would feel like,

00:24:26 ◼   ► you know, kind of, I don't know,

00:24:27 ◼   ► like the the the max and the iPhone 10 or 10 are like these are all really

00:24:31 ◼   ► close they do still feel distinctly different but with the weight reduction

00:24:35 ◼   ► like I picked up the the 11 is like holy cow this is light and and I feel the

00:24:41 ◼   ► same way about the 12 - now it's been a long time since I've owned a 12 but it

00:24:45 ◼   ► just seems like they've shaved some weight off of it and that that does make

00:24:48 ◼   ► it more portable in its own way like you could walk around and hold this much

00:24:52 ◼   ► easier I think than the old one and that's a positive for some people not in

00:24:56 ◼   ► a bad way, but how weird the flat edges feel.

00:24:59 ◼   ► It's very weird.

00:25:01 ◼   ► I like it. Feel no, but it's weird because it's very unlike any

00:25:05 ◼   ► other like iOS device that I've had in a very long time.

00:25:10 ◼   ► It's like abnormal.

00:25:12 ◼   ► I like it a lot.

00:25:13 ◼   ► I like the look of it and it's interesting.

00:25:15 ◼   ► But like, yeah, it does feel kind of like nostalgic even.

00:25:20 ◼   ► It's it's kind of it's kind of interesting.

00:25:22 ◼   ► It's a throwback.

00:25:23 ◼   ► Does feel like that. Yeah.

00:25:24 ◼   ► I kind of wish that Apple would go this route across their devices.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Like, I like the squared off sides.

00:25:32 ◼   ► I think it looks really modern in a way that I wasn't expecting.

00:25:37 ◼   ► I don't love the antenna lines.

00:25:38 ◼   ► I went with the silver primarily because the antenna lines are lighter than the aluminum.

00:25:43 ◼   ► I felt like on the Space Gray it was not the best looking, to my eye at least.

00:25:48 ◼   ► But I kind of dig it.

00:25:51 ◼   ► It's got a presence to it that I sort of find interesting.

00:25:56 ◼   ► Yeah, antenna lines are so friggin weird on the Selena model.

00:26:01 ◼   ► They're like, "Okay, not only does it go across the edge, also kind of on the top."

00:26:05 ◼   ► Like it's like, what is going on with these things?

00:26:08 ◼   ► I like, I actually kind of, I think it looks pretty cool.

00:26:12 ◼   ► Like I like that it's not being specifically trying to be hidden.

00:26:16 ◼   ► I think it can look worse when they try and hide it.

00:26:18 ◼   ► you kind of like call it out and make it look more like a design element.

00:26:21 ◼   ► But they are freaky on the on the cellular like on the on the Wi-Fi they don't have that

00:26:28 ◼   ► little line that sticks out.

00:26:30 ◼   ► It's just it just goes across but it doesn't you know you got like weirdly not in the middle

00:26:36 ◼   ► on either of them.

00:26:38 ◼   ► You've got like the two little notches that go from the line around the top of the screen

00:26:42 ◼   ► that doesn't exist.

00:26:44 ◼   ► It's a strange they're strange looking.

00:26:47 ◼   ► You know, there was a render or something of an iPhone 7

00:26:50 ◼   ► like years ago that is basically this design.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Do you remember that?

00:26:54 ◼   ► Like it had the antenna lines like this.

00:26:55 ◼   ► - Yeah, the iPhone Pro.

00:26:57 ◼   ► - That's right.

00:26:58 ◼   ► - The iPhone Pro, yeah.

00:27:00 ◼   ► - You know, so they haven't really blended it in as nicely,

00:27:02 ◼   ► but I like the silver, I especially like the silver

00:27:07 ◼   ► with the contrast with the keyboard folio.

00:27:10 ◼   ► I think that's sort of a nice look, but--

00:27:13 ◼   ► - Can we talk about that?

00:27:14 ◼   ► Can we talk about that keyboard?

00:27:16 ◼   ► Oh my god, yeah, okay, so I don't like it.

00:27:20 ◼   ► I never liked the smart keyboard, or I should say I--

00:27:24 ◼   ► - You grew to dislike it, I think,

00:27:26 ◼   ► 'cause you found other things that you like more.

00:27:28 ◼   ► - I grew to dislike the smart keyboard,

00:27:31 ◼   ► and so after having used a bridge keyboard

00:27:34 ◼   ► for almost a year now, it's very difficult for me

00:27:37 ◼   ► to go back to the keyboard folio.

00:27:40 ◼   ► And it's not, the features that are new

00:27:43 ◼   ► to the keyboard folio, I kinda like.

00:27:45 ◼   ► So I like that I was wrong at the hands-on area.

00:27:49 ◼   ► It's very easy to put it into the case.

00:27:53 ◼   ► It didn't seem easy.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Maybe the demo person wasn't just familiar with it enough.

00:27:59 ◼   ► I think it's fine.

00:28:00 ◼   ► I like the laptop viewing angle.

00:28:08 ◼   ► I think the desk mode angle is a lie.

00:28:10 ◼   ► That is a steep angle.

00:28:12 ◼   ► That is not made for desks.

00:28:13 ◼   ► I think Myke made an argument today in our iMessage conversation that this feels more

00:28:19 ◼   ► like a movie mode. It's a media mode.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Yeah, they're just calling it desk mode because you can't get rid of the keyboard anymore,

00:28:28 ◼   ► like you used to be able to. I will say that I have used it in that angle on a desk and

00:28:33 ◼   ► it works, but it's...

00:28:35 ◼   ► Yeah, you're gonna have some neck pain.

00:28:37 ◼   ► You've got it far away from you, right? Like if it's not right in front of you... Funny

00:28:41 ◼   ► Again, this is super strange to me, but I guess it's just because of the law of physics.

00:28:47 ◼   ► The angles are different on each model.

00:28:50 ◼   ► Oh, interesting.

00:28:51 ◼   ► They're both steeper on the 11 than they are on the 12.

00:28:57 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:28:58 ◼   ► OK.

00:28:59 ◼   ► So, what is new to the keyboard folio?

00:29:02 ◼   ► I don't hate.

00:29:04 ◼   ► My main problem remains the keyboard.

00:29:08 ◼   ► It's not a backlit keyboard.

00:29:11 ◼   ► The keys are too small for me compared to the Brydge keyboard, which uses like an old

00:29:16 ◼   ► style MacBook keyboard type of setup.

00:29:22 ◼   ► The keyboard itself is very small and it feels like my hands are constantly cramped into

00:29:28 ◼   ► this keyboard.

00:29:30 ◼   ► And also it doesn't have any special media key or any special function key.

00:29:37 ◼   ► So there's no Siri key, for example, which I get on the Bridge keyboard.

00:29:41 ◼   ► There are no media controls, which you used to get on MacBook Pro keyboards before the

00:29:46 ◼   ► Touch Bar.

00:29:47 ◼   ► You know, stuff to play and pause and change the volume and control the brightness of the

00:29:53 ◼   ► display and the brightness of the keyboard.

00:29:55 ◼   ► The Smart Keyboard Folio lacks all of these features.

00:29:59 ◼   ► And so, I'm gonna use this for now, because it's my only option.

00:30:03 ◼   ► But as soon as somebody, or Bridge itself, make a version of the keyboard that I want,

00:30:09 ◼   ► an aluminum keyboard that I want for the iPad Pro, I'm gonna get it right away.

00:30:14 ◼   ► Because I can accept the Smart Keyboard Folio for now, it's an expensive thing to accept,

00:30:21 ◼   ► but it's my only option.

00:30:23 ◼   ► I should probably try again the Kanopy by StudioNeat, I think it sort of works with

00:30:28 ◼   ► the new iPad Pro, but I want an integrated setup, I want to have something that I can

00:30:32 ◼   ► attached to my iPad and carry around. I don't want to have like a separate thing.

00:30:35 ◼   ► So unfortunately I don't like it because I know where my preference is and it's

00:30:42 ◼   ► not this. I was surprised at the texture of the outside. It's smoother than

00:30:53 ◼   ► the previous one and it's different to the texture on the keyboard and the

00:30:57 ◼   ► keyboard's texture is how the whole thing used to be.

00:31:00 ◼   ► Yes.

00:31:02 ◼   ► I have nothing to say about it.

00:31:04 ◼   ► It's just, I was surprised by it.

00:31:06 ◼   ► I think it's perfect for stickers.

00:31:09 ◼   ► I think this thing is screaming for stickers.

00:31:12 ◼   ► I thought that exact thing, and yes it is, because it is the most boring-looking thing in the world.

00:31:15 ◼   ► It's just boring.

00:31:16 ◼   ► It doesn't even have an Apple logo on it, which I was super surprised about.

00:31:19 ◼   ► No, nothing.

00:31:20 ◼   ► Nothing.

00:31:21 ◼   ► And I was gonna say something.

00:31:23 ◼   ► Oh, and it doesn't, I was surprised.

00:31:25 ◼   ► I didn't ask about this.

00:31:27 ◼   ► But the microfiber cloth inside, to keep the iPad screen clean, is gone.

00:31:36 ◼   ► So I wonder what's going to happen in a few months with the keys that have been sitting

00:31:41 ◼   ► on top of the display for a while.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Probably nothing, because Apple thought about this.

00:31:46 ◼   ► But I thought it was interesting that that is gone, because it wraps around, so of course

00:31:50 ◼   ► there's no microfiber anymore.

00:31:52 ◼   ► I didn't think it's harder to get it out.

00:31:55 ◼   ► and I wanted to see it a second ago

00:31:57 ◼   ► and look at the antenna lines.

00:31:58 ◼   ► Like you sort of have to like hold it

00:32:00 ◼   ► and it'll take some practice I think.

00:32:02 ◼   ► But the immediate thing I don't like is

00:32:05 ◼   ► if you're on your finger on the left side

00:32:07 ◼   ► to hit the sleep wake button,

00:32:08 ◼   ► the edge of the folio stands out a little bit

00:32:13 ◼   ► from the edge of the iPad.

00:32:14 ◼   ► And so like it's hard,

00:32:15 ◼   ► like it's easy to basically push against the folio

00:32:18 ◼   ► and not the button.

00:32:19 ◼   ► Like it's just something about that

00:32:21 ◼   ► feels a little sloppy to me.

00:32:22 ◼   ► But you know, other than that,

00:32:24 ◼   ► I think it looks nicer than the old Smart Cover.

00:32:28 ◼   ► I think it's like more of a product in a way,

00:32:31 ◼   ► like sort of more luxurious in a way

00:32:33 ◼   ► that it's covered back and front.

00:32:35 ◼   ► It's like a little iPad sandwich.

00:32:37 ◼   ► But I don't have the problems with the keyboard you do.

00:32:40 ◼   ► I am going to like returning to the wider one,

00:32:43 ◼   ► going down to the 10-5.

00:32:45 ◼   ► Keyboard is a little cramped for me.

00:32:46 ◼   ► And this is basically the width of the keyboard

00:32:48 ◼   ► I use at my desk.

00:32:50 ◼   ► So I'm hoping that there'll be very little

00:32:52 ◼   ► adjustment period for me.

00:32:53 ◼   ► But I understand why you don't like it,

00:32:55 ◼   ► and I agree with you.

00:32:56 ◼   ► There should be more options from Apple on this.

00:32:57 ◼   ► It's silly that there's just this one.

00:33:00 ◼   ► - Or in general, there's none this time.

00:33:02 ◼   ► Like, at least with the previous iPad Pros,

00:33:05 ◼   ► Logitech have launched on launch day with products,

00:33:09 ◼   ► and it doesn't seem like that's the case.

00:33:12 ◼   ► Yeah, like the Create and the Slim,

00:33:15 ◼   ► like they were both available day one.

00:33:18 ◼   ► Or at least Logitech had information on day one

00:33:22 ◼   ► About products which they do not this time. I haven't seen it today

00:33:27 ◼   ► I'm going to their website again to see if I am since been wrong

00:33:30 ◼   ► I wonder if that's about I wonder if that's about the new smart connector

00:33:33 ◼   ► If there's something there, they've got a yeah, but you would assume

00:33:37 ◼   ► That if Logitech would I don't know we're interested or if Apple were interested they would have just done the same deal

00:33:44 ◼   ► They've done in the past like if you remember like

00:33:47 ◼   ► Logitech had the create out before the iPad Pro ever,

00:33:52 ◼   ► like they had that thing ready for day one of the iPad Pro.

00:33:56 ◼   ► So the product had never been seen by anyone.

00:33:59 ◼   ► They did a special deal with Apple, right?

00:34:01 ◼   ► To get advanced information, right?

00:34:04 ◼   ► To be able to build those cases.

00:34:06 ◼   ► - And fun fact, this was three years ago,

00:34:10 ◼   ► at my briefing for the first iPad Pro,

00:34:12 ◼   ► Apple PR was giving out the smart keyboard

00:34:14 ◼   ► and the Logitech create keyboard.

00:34:16 ◼   ► And if you remember, there were no smart keyboards for a very, very long time from that period.

00:34:21 ◼   ► Do you remember that? And like none in other languages?

00:34:24 ◼   ► Oh yeah, it was only in one language. Yeah, I remember that.

00:34:27 ◼   ► But like they were just back ordered badly. Yeah. The original Logitech Create was terrible

00:34:33 ◼   ► because it was an ugly piece of plastic with cheap buttons and stickers on top of buttons.

00:34:39 ◼   ► The only good Create was the 9.7 inch Create. It's the only good Logitech Key.

00:34:45 ◼   ► And they also, they redid it for last year's iPad Pro maybe, and it was good again, but

00:34:51 ◼   ► the first one was bad, really bad.

00:34:53 ◼   ► Yep.

00:34:54 ◼   ► It was a bad keyboard.

00:34:55 ◼   ► They did the one with the like keyboard that could detect, it was just a nightmare.

00:34:58 ◼   ► It was very bad.

00:35:00 ◼   ► The Apple Pencil is amazing.

00:35:03 ◼   ► I love it.

00:35:05 ◼   ► They gave me everything I wanted by and large, like at least all the important stuff.

00:35:09 ◼   ► The texture is nice to hold, it feels warm to touch now rather than kind of like slippery

00:35:14 ◼   ► and cold. It has a flat side so it doesn't roll away. I've seen people saying, like,

00:35:21 ◼   ► there was like, "Oh, it's actually a touch sensitive area." It's not touch. It's not

00:35:25 ◼   ► a touch sensitive area. It's an accelerometer because you can touch anywhere on the pencil

00:35:30 ◼   ► and it will change tools. You know what I'm talking about?

00:35:34 ◼   ► When you double tap. Yeah, when you double tap on the pencil to

00:35:36 ◼   ► change tools. I think I read somewhere...

00:35:40 ◼   ► I read somewhere that somebody said it was touch sensitive, but that means the entire pencil is touch sensitive?

00:35:44 ◼   ► No, no, no. I think maybe Panzarin on TechCrunch, maybe.

00:35:48 ◼   ► There's a there's a special sensor toward the lower end of the pencil that basically receives double tapping.

00:35:59 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't think it's touch.

00:36:01 ◼   ► I don't know if it's just an accelerometer, though.

00:36:04 ◼   ► I'm going to find it and I'm going to I'm going to follow up on this.

00:36:09 ◼   ► Yeah, you know what, actually, it's like a band.

00:36:12 ◼   ► It's like a band. I'm trying it out and like, it seems like it's it's

00:36:16 ◼   ► it is just down the bottom.

00:36:18 ◼   ► So there's something going on in the bottom, but it's not like

00:36:20 ◼   ► at least it doesn't seem in the way that I'd read it.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Like it's not like the flat side is a touch sensitive strip.

00:36:26 ◼   ► Like there is no necessarily like touch sensitiveness about it

00:36:30 ◼   ► other than like something's going on.

00:36:31 ◼   ► But you have to double tap it and you can tap it anywhere.

00:36:34 ◼   ► That's probably a better way of putting it.

00:36:36 ◼   ► But I am very pleased with this new Apple pencil.

00:36:40 ◼   ► I'm very excited about it.

00:36:42 ◼   ► I love that it's always charging.

00:36:45 ◼   ► I love that it's always there.

00:36:46 ◼   ► I have noticed that like it is possible to attach it incorrectly.

00:36:51 ◼   ► So because it's a magnet, right, you can kind of attach it

00:36:55 ◼   ► to the left or to the right and it will stick on to the top of the iPad.

00:36:59 ◼   ► But it is not secure.

00:37:01 ◼   ► So you kind of have to make sure you get it direct.

00:37:04 ◼   ► not you have to make sure it's in the middle because otherwise it won't charge and it won't

00:37:07 ◼   ► be a secure hold. Oh yeah you're right. So you can put it to the left you can put it to the right so

00:37:12 ◼   ► like it's more kind of towards the edge but then it's not secure. I don't think that's a problem

00:37:18 ◼   ► but like it's just something to be aware of and I've already found myself using my apple pencil

00:37:24 ◼   ► more again because it's more convenient to grab and it's always charged which my apple pencil

00:37:30 ◼   ► never is because I would keep it attached to my iPad so the battery would drain away.

00:37:35 ◼   ► So something that I noticed, I agree with you completely, I'm already using it more,

00:37:39 ◼   ► something that I noticed though is that I kind of wish it was possible to also attach

00:37:45 ◼   ► it to the shorter side of the iPad because if I want to use the iPad Pro in portrait

00:37:52 ◼   ► and hold it with my hands, it gets in the way of the pencil and so the pencil detaches.

00:37:58 ◼   ► And so I kinda wish that Apple made it so that you could attach it to the top side or

00:38:03 ◼   ► the bottom side.

00:38:04 ◼   ► I understand why they're not doing it, because the bottom side has the USB-C connector and

00:38:08 ◼   ► the top side has the... they call it the top button, actually, in settings.

00:38:13 ◼   ► And also there's the speakers on those sides.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Still, I kinda wish that it was possible, because I wanna hold my iPad in portrait and

00:38:22 ◼   ► have the pencil attached at the top.

00:38:25 ◼   ► I don't think that's a wild idea.

00:38:26 ◼   ► I think most people would expect that, but it's only one side with the magnetic connector.

00:38:31 ◼   ► So fourth generation iPad Pro, please make it possible to attach the pencil on any side

00:38:37 ◼   ► of the iPad.

00:38:38 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:38:39 ◼   ► You can stick it on the back if you don't have the keyboard cover on.

00:38:44 ◼   ► Would you trust that?

00:38:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:38:46 ◼   ► I feel like I want to look at it.

00:38:49 ◼   ► I want to make sure that I see it.

00:38:52 ◼   ► I want it to be at the top.

00:38:53 ◼   ► I'm going to stick it to the back, actually.

00:38:55 ◼   ► I didn't think about that.

00:38:56 ◼   ► I have the keyboard cover on, it sticks to the back pretty well.

00:39:00 ◼   ► I should do that, but also I want it to be at the top so I can look at it.

00:39:04 ◼   ► I just want to make sure it's there.

00:39:06 ◼   ► Myke, let me ask you this.

00:39:09 ◼   ► Did you get the pencil engraved for you?

00:39:13 ◼   ► No.

00:39:14 ◼   ► I wish I did.

00:39:16 ◼   ► I wanted to, but I was concerned that having it engraved meant that I wouldn't get it on

00:39:22 ◼   ► the first day.

00:39:23 ◼   ► Alright, time to get a second one.

00:39:25 ◼   ► Well, I already have two.

00:39:27 ◼   ► Multi-pencil life.

00:39:29 ◼   ► Oh, come on, have three.

00:39:32 ◼   ► Two is one anyway, and three is two.

00:39:34 ◼   ► So--

00:39:34 ◼   ► Yeah, that's how it works.

00:39:36 ◼   ► At some point, yes.

00:39:37 ◼   ► And I will-- if I do, I will get Michael's right on it,

00:39:39 ◼   ► because that just seems like fun.

00:39:41 ◼   ► That's Marco's idea.

00:39:42 ◼   ► But look, I have so many other thoughts about this,

00:39:47 ◼   ► but it's too much for today.

00:39:49 ◼   ► But like, Face ID is brilliant.

00:39:51 ◼   ► It's super fast.

00:39:52 ◼   ► I've barely tested USB-C. Like, there

00:39:55 ◼   ► There's so much stuff like...

00:39:58 ◼   ► So much more that we need to discuss.

00:40:00 ◼   ► You don't put your finger on the home button anymore, but oh boy does it still love your

00:40:03 ◼   ► fingerprint this thing.

00:40:04 ◼   ► Oh boy, oh boy, still a fingerprint magnet, I'm hoping they would have fixed that.

00:40:10 ◼   ► But I guess it's something, my assumption is it's something to do with the Apple pencil,

00:40:14 ◼   ► which just means that it picks up, like that coating that they put on it.

00:40:17 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:40:18 ◼   ► But like, oh my god, this is the best, this is just like the best hardware.

00:40:22 ◼   ► So what we're gonna do is we're gonna keep testing this of course, we're gonna talk about

00:40:27 ◼   ► it next week more in depth.

00:40:29 ◼   ► Personally speaking, I don't think I will do a full review on Mac stories because I

00:40:35 ◼   ► don't want to keep people waiting for like two weeks, so my approach is probably going

00:40:40 ◼   ► to be split it up in a series of articles, each about a different topic.

00:40:46 ◼   ► So if you have questions about the iPad Pro, please send them to us, or if you have questions

00:40:51 ◼   ► specifically for me, please send them to me, I'm going to be testing a bunch of USB-C accessories

00:40:57 ◼   ► because thankfully I've been spending a lot of money in the past year preparing for the

00:41:02 ◼   ► USB-C revolution, so I have a bunch of things that I can already plug into the iPad Pro,

00:41:06 ◼   ► so I'm gonna test that and we're gonna follow up here on connected and we'll try and put

00:41:12 ◼   ► together a series of posts on Mac stories, starting this week with the first one I think.

00:41:18 ◼   ► So different approach this year, you know, different setup, different approach should

00:41:23 ◼   ► be fun.

00:41:24 ◼   ► All right, let's take a break.

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00:43:35 ◼   ► All right, more topics. This list just never ends.

00:43:40 ◼   ► - It does, it will eventually it'll end, but not now.

00:43:43 ◼   ► - 22 pages down in Google Docs.

00:43:46 ◼   ► So just because we are new to the iPad Pro

00:43:49 ◼   ► doesn't mean everyone else is.

00:43:51 ◼   ► There have been quite a few reviews out there.

00:43:54 ◼   ► We've got some in the show notes

00:43:58 ◼   ► and we're gonna talk a little bit about

00:44:01 ◼   ► some of the themes I think we've seen in this.

00:44:03 ◼   ► I think there are a couple of pretty clear ideas

00:44:06 ◼   ► that a lot of people have had around this

00:44:10 ◼   ► and I think a lot of it comes down to the conversation

00:44:12 ◼   ► of hardware versus software.

00:44:15 ◼   ► We talked about this last time,

00:44:16 ◼   ► that this iPad Pro is ridiculous from a hardware perspective

00:44:21 ◼   ► but a lot of people seem to feel the way that I feel,

00:44:23 ◼   ► at least, is that I'm not hamstrung by the hardware,

00:44:27 ◼   ► it's iOS that I find limiting in some things

00:44:30 ◼   ► that I want to do.

00:44:32 ◼   ► So I thought we could talk about that

00:44:34 ◼   ► and I figured there's no better people on the whole planet

00:44:38 ◼   ► argue with us, to argue with me about this than the two of you, since you guys are iPad

00:44:44 ◼   ► first.

00:44:45 ◼   ► I would like to make an opening statement on behalf of me and Federico, because I know

00:44:50 ◼   ► he's going to agree with me. But I feel like we need to just say it. We don't disagree

00:44:55 ◼   ► with that premise. The idea that iOS 12 isn't where it should be. We talk about this all

00:45:01 ◼   ► the time, about what we would like to see in the next version of iOS. We spoke about

00:45:06 ◼   ► it before iOS 12 came out. We've been speaking about it since iOS 11 came into the world,

00:45:11 ◼   ► right? So there are definitely things that iOS is lacking. There are definitely things

00:45:17 ◼   ► we believe and hope that iOS 13 will add. Like 100% that is the case, right? Like we

00:45:22 ◼   ► agree with this premise. There is a problem though, in about some of the ways that these

00:45:29 ◼   ► arguments get framed and get twisted that is then for some reason thrown back at me

00:45:35 ◼   ► and Federico, and then we're just like, have to deal with being not professionals and that

00:45:43 ◼   ► we have to jump through hoops all the time.

00:45:45 ◼   ► These are the opinions that people have of what it's like to work on the iPad.

00:45:49 ◼   ► So straight up, we agree with that sentiment, but there's a lot of nuance that is missed

00:45:55 ◼   ► by people that don't use these devices to get their work done every single day.

00:45:59 ◼   ► I have an opening statement to bounce off of yours.

00:46:02 ◼   ► we're all in agreement with this, that at the end of the day,

00:46:06 ◼   ► if it bothers you how someone else gets their work done,

00:46:09 ◼   ► then maybe you need to go for a walk, right?

00:46:12 ◼   ► This is not about, I think any three of us

00:46:16 ◼   ► approach this as the iPad is gonna come in

00:46:21 ◼   ► and take my Mac off my desk and I'm gonna show up

00:46:24 ◼   ► and Tim Cook will be midway plugging in

00:46:26 ◼   ► a USB-C cable to an iPad,

00:46:28 ◼   ► with my iMac Pro in pieces on the floor.

00:46:30 ◼   ► People get defensive about this.

00:46:32 ◼   ► Mac users get defensive about this,

00:46:34 ◼   ► I think in a way that is a little unbecoming

00:46:38 ◼   ► and frankly, like rooted in fear

00:46:41 ◼   ► that their precious Mac is going to go away.

00:46:44 ◼   ► And I don't believe that.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Like in the long term, maybe, but anytime soon,

00:46:49 ◼   ► anytime of timeframe that makes sense to talk about,

00:46:54 ◼   ► the Mac is not going anywhere.

00:46:57 ◼   ► Apple wouldn't be making the investments they are now

00:46:59 ◼   ► into it if that was the plan.

00:47:01 ◼   ► Now long term, maybe that's a different topic, but we can argue about things that are going

00:47:06 ◼   ► to happen 10, 15, 20 years from now, or we can talk about where we are today.

00:47:10 ◼   ► I think that's what we want to do.

00:47:12 ◼   ► The iPad isn't killing the Mac.

00:47:14 ◼   ► If anything, it's the iPhone, because it's iOS.

00:47:17 ◼   ► And iOS is led by the iPhone.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Like the strategic advantages of iOS, Apple fills them in the iPhone primarily.

00:47:25 ◼   ► If there is a big change coming, it is because the iPhone is so successful, not because the

00:47:30 ◼   ► iPad is so successful. That's why they're that's what if they're gonna make any

00:47:34 ◼   ► change that's why they're gonna make it. It's got nothing to do with iPad versus

00:47:38 ◼   ► Mac. It's the impact that the iPhone has had on Apple has changed them as a

00:47:44 ◼   ► company and that's kind of why we're where we are or where we could end up

00:47:48 ◼   ► being. Yeah and so again like I think in this conversation it is about how we how

00:47:56 ◼   ► y'all get our work done. It's that that is not that is not a broader statement.

00:48:03 ◼   ► It doesn't necessarily have to be a broader statement on the way the whole

00:48:07 ◼   ► world works or the whole the way the whole world should work but people get

00:48:11 ◼   ► excited on Twitter and get get upset and I think that's just I think that's silly

00:48:17 ◼   ► we can have a conversation about this without getting into that side of things

00:48:21 ◼   ► which I think is what the three of us want.

00:48:23 ◼   ► -Mm-hmm. So, you guys had opening statements.

00:48:28 ◼   ► I just have statements.

00:48:31 ◼   ► Or I just want to have a discussion about --

00:48:35 ◼   ► No, I just want to get serious for, like, five minutes,

00:48:38 ◼   ► if you'll let me, and have a discussion about the idea

00:48:41 ◼   ► of iOS being limited.

00:48:45 ◼   ► Because I think it's fascinating to observe

00:48:49 ◼   ► of how this discussion is sort of generated in this corner of the media industry and how

00:48:56 ◼   ► it sort of relates to my experience, my personal experience, but also to the experiences of

00:49:02 ◼   ► people that I've talked to and also use iPads. And I think, like, the more I read these reviews

00:49:09 ◼   ► and the more I see these conversations on Twitter on what makes a computer or not or

00:49:14 ◼   ► the problems of iOS, I think it's pretty clear to me that iOS has limitations when it's compared

00:49:21 ◼   ► to Mac OS. I think that's obvious. I also think, though, that there's this sort of odd

00:49:27 ◼   ► tension between people who have grown up with iOS. So if you bought an original iPad and

00:49:36 ◼   ► you were 10, you probably use your iPad for games or, you know, simple stuff. Now you're

00:49:43 ◼   ► 18, you're basically a young adult, and you're off to college probably. So you've sort of,

00:49:50 ◼   ► you've grown up with iOS and you're familiar with iOS. Or maybe you're someone like me

00:49:55 ◼   ► who grew up with a traditional Windows computer that moved to a Mac, that moved to an iPad.

00:50:01 ◼   ► And so over the past almost a decade, eight to nine years, next April, you are familiar

00:50:10 ◼   ► with iOS at this point, and you are familiar with the limitations of iOS.

00:50:14 ◼   ► And there's that tension between these types of people and people who are still using computers,

00:50:21 ◼   ► are still using laptops and desktops, and they want iOS to work like their existing

00:50:30 ◼   ► Most of the day they use a laptop, they use a MacBook, they use a PC, and then when they

00:50:37 ◼   ► try an iPad, maybe because they have a review unit or maybe because they're just curious,

00:50:42 ◼   ► they get upset. And I get that. And I understand why. But if we follow this argument, imagine

00:50:51 ◼   ► me for example, I could make the same argument for macOS after so many years spent using

00:50:58 ◼   ► the iPad. When I use my Mac, and take that from somebody who's buying a new Mac Mini,

00:51:06 ◼   ► an expensive one, because I need it, but when I use my Mac, I'm annoyed by the fact that

00:51:11 ◼   ► I cannot touch the screen, I'm annoyed by the fact that it doesn't have the apps I want,

00:51:16 ◼   ► it doesn't have, you know, the same quality iOS apps that I'm used to on my iPad, it doesn't

00:51:22 ◼   ► have shortcuts, for example, it's got an automator which is so much worse, it doesn't, I'm not

00:51:28 ◼   ► I'm sorry, just an opinion.

00:51:30 ◼   ► - Sick Ben and Carian.

00:51:32 ◼   ► - It doesn't, my MacBook doesn't have a cellular connection.

00:51:36 ◼   ► I cannot hold the computer in my hands

00:51:38 ◼   ► and walk around to read the book or read an article.

00:51:41 ◼   ► And these are just some of the differences.

00:51:43 ◼   ► So I think it's important to consider that

00:51:45 ◼   ► those problems presented by the people

00:51:50 ◼   ► who are trying to switch from Mac to iOS are valid,

00:51:55 ◼   ► but also the opposite perspective is valid.

00:51:57 ◼   ► that I'm used to iOS and when I try something else, I'm annoyed because it doesn't behave like the touch OS that I'm used to.

00:52:05 ◼   ► And so I think it's interesting to have this discussion, but in a slightly different way.

00:52:09 ◼   ► So rather than just saying "Is iOS too simple?" or "Is iOS too limiting?"

00:52:14 ◼   ► which I think it's a generic statement that really doesn't nail the problem.

00:52:21 ◼   ► I think it would be more useful to have this different question.

00:52:24 ◼   ► Is the iPad a limited computer for switchers, for people who want to switch from a traditional

00:52:33 ◼   ► computer environment to iOS, to an iPad, to an iPad Pro?

00:52:38 ◼   ► And in this case, if we follow this slightly more nuanced question, I can see the problems,

00:52:44 ◼   ► right?

00:52:45 ◼   ► I can see the problems that iOS is facing, that the iPad is facing compared to a computer.

00:52:50 ◼   ► It's a bunch of small things and it's a bunch of big things.

00:52:53 ◼   ► things like, I don't know, easily renaming a file before sharing it, which you can only

00:52:58 ◼   ► do in the Files app or in a third-party app, which is insane.

00:53:01 ◼   ► Or like, even more than just that, like I have a file in Slack and I want to email it.

00:53:07 ◼   ► Well first, I have to save it to a cloud service.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:10 ◼   ► Right?

00:53:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:53:12 ◼   ► It's insane that you still cannot natively create zip archives on iOS.

00:53:18 ◼   ► You need to use a third-party app for that.

00:53:22 ◼   ► shortcuts that are inconsistent, but these are small things, there's also

00:53:25 ◼   ► bigger problems, like the Files app is a very limited file manager

00:53:30 ◼   ► compared to the Finder, or there's no concept of windowing and opening

00:53:35 ◼   ► multiple tabs for the same app, there's no trackpad support, so you can

00:53:41 ◼   ► use an iPad with a third-party keyboard but you cannot use it with a third-party

00:53:44 ◼   ► mouse or trackpad, which I think is pretty problematic at this point,

00:53:49 ◼   ► And of course Mobile Safari still doesn't work well with a bunch of websites or

00:53:54 ◼   ► You know, you cannot watch 4k content on YouTube because Apple doesn't want to adopt VP9

00:54:00 ◼   ► And of course, there's despite the iPad having a USB C connector now

00:54:05 ◼   ► You cannot use a USB drive and browse your files in the app called files made by Apple

00:54:12 ◼   ► so I

00:54:15 ◼   ► think it's interesting to

00:54:18 ◼   ► to imagine whether Apple is facing this very problem of being unable to choose if they

00:54:31 ◼   ► want to please the iOS generation more, so the people who grew up with multi-touch, who

00:54:37 ◼   ► are used to multi-touch and don't want to have any extra complications, like they don't

00:54:42 ◼   ► want their iPads to be as complicated as a PC? Or do they want to please the people who

00:54:48 ◼   ► are using a PC and want to switch to iPads? This fork in the road for Apple, I think,

00:54:56 ◼   ► is what's going to be interesting to consider. Next year, with Marzipan, for example, and

00:55:02 ◼   ► the path of the Mac and the path of the iPad, this collision of these two generations of

00:55:08 ◼   ► people I think will be interesting. And then there's a second question, if you give me

00:55:14 ◼   ► five more minutes, that I want to touch upon. So after the question of "Is iOS too limiting?"

00:55:21 ◼   ► the question of "Can no professionals use iPads?" And that is even more interesting

00:55:28 ◼   ► for me because I am... what is a professional? I saw this tweet from Nilay Patel of The Verge,

00:55:36 ◼   ► who wrote an excellent review of the iPad Pro from the perspective of someone who doesn't

00:55:41 ◼   ► really use an iPad Pro on a daily basis, this is not sarcasm, I totally get Nilay's criticism

00:55:49 ◼   ► and we need more of these type of reviews. He said that the Verge review of the iPad

00:55:55 ◼   ► Pro couldn't have been made on an iPad Pro because of photographers, video editors, and

00:56:02 ◼   ► you know, a bunch of issues that the Verge team ran into when trying to get the work

00:56:07 ◼   ► done on iPad Pro. And I think that's totally valid, but also it captures perfectly the

00:56:14 ◼   ► current state of our discussion about computers and iPad Pros and iOS. On one hand, you got

00:56:22 ◼   ► the media, you have journalists, you have bloggers, you have video editors writing for

00:56:27 ◼   ► writing for blogs, for big publications, and they have workflows that have been

00:56:34 ◼   ► built over the years, they have CMSs that have been designed on desktop computers,

00:56:39 ◼   ► they require a PC. And those are, again, totally fine arguments, totally real

00:56:47 ◼   ► problems. But on the other, you have professionals who actually use iPads, who

00:56:54 ◼   ► actually use the iPad Pro. In the past year, since I started talking to people

00:57:00 ◼   ► who, in a section of our Club Maxories newsletter called "iPads around the world",

00:57:07 ◼   ► I set out to discover the ways that people use iPads. And I heard from

00:57:12 ◼   ► doctors. I heard from a doctor who operates in the Australian Outback and

00:57:19 ◼   ► and runs her business on an iPad Pro.

00:57:22 ◼   ► I heard from engineers, I heard from illustrators,

00:57:26 ◼   ► I heard from pastors and church groups,

00:57:29 ◼   ► I heard from scientists who use the iPad Pro for lab reports and 3D graphics,

00:57:34 ◼   ► I heard from pilots who use an iPad Pro for, what's it called, the flight maps.

00:57:40 ◼   ► Used to be this thick books, you know, very heavy book,

00:57:44 ◼   ► and now it's on an iPad Pro.

00:57:46 ◼   ► I heard from someone who oversees the marketing for Broadway productions, such as Hamilton.

00:57:57 ◼   ► It's wild the way that these different people from different parts of the world,

00:58:04 ◼   ► from, you know, with different jobs, real professionals are actually using the iPad Pro.

00:58:10 ◼   ► These people don't work in the media. You don't hear from these people.

00:58:14 ◼   ► These are the silent iPad audience, the silent iPad users that actually do get the work done,

00:58:20 ◼   ► really important work done, and you don't hear from them.

00:58:23 ◼   ► So this is the state of our discussion, is that what makes the iPad Pro a professional

00:58:32 ◼   ► tool?

00:58:33 ◼   ► This question, this problem, is being raised by professionals who work in media and often

00:58:40 ◼   ► don't have the kind of perspective of a doctor or an engineer or a pilot. And while I'm not

00:58:47 ◼   ► asking, I'm not saying that Eli Patel should know all of these people right, that's impossible

00:58:52 ◼   ► because I didn't know them either. I think it's important though to keep an open mind

00:58:55 ◼   ► when saying the iPad Pro is not a computer or the iPad Pro is not a professional tool.

00:59:00 ◼   ► I think it's important to keep an open mind and say well maybe there's someone who's actually

00:59:04 ◼   ► using it as such. So that's how I feel like I would like these publications to be more

00:59:12 ◼   ► open to that idea. And finally, I think that we can all agree on the fact that there are

00:59:20 ◼   ► objective problems, objective issues that Apple should fix. We mentioned them many times

00:59:25 ◼   ► on the show. Most importantly, I think Apple should incentivize developers to actually

00:59:31 ◼   ► make Pro apps to make not just the iPad companions but actually real versions of desktop apps

00:59:40 ◼   ► on the iPad. There's a whole list of things, right, like Apple should make their own Pro

00:59:44 ◼   ► apps, they should open up USB drive access, they should offer third-party backup APIs

00:59:52 ◼   ► to make actual stuff like backplays, for example, on an iPad Pro. There's a whole list of things.

00:59:58 ◼   ► But most importantly, I think this whole discussion, while there are objective problems, there

01:00:06 ◼   ► are also people who are actually using the iPad Pro as a professional tool.

01:00:10 ◼   ► We don't hear from them, so all we can do, I think, is try to keep an open mind, recognize

01:00:18 ◼   ► the problems, point out the problems, offer criticism because that's important, but also

01:00:25 ◼   ► Try and not discount the iPad as a toy because you wouldn't, you know, people who work in

01:00:30 ◼   ► Broadway, doctors and pilots, I don't think they see it as a toy.

01:00:35 ◼   ► That's my series of statements.

01:00:38 ◼   ► Thank you.

01:00:39 ◼   ► So I think one of the things that is interesting and important to add as a point to that, where

01:00:44 ◼   ► you're like, you know, like, we don't see these people so we shouldn't write it off.

01:00:48 ◼   ► I can understand how things could be written off if this was a completely absurd idea,

01:00:53 ◼   ► right?

01:00:54 ◼   ► Like, I'm sure there are professionals that use Palm pilots today.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Right. I was in the airport a couple of days ago and they were using a dot matrix

01:01:02 ◼   ► printer to print something. Right.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Like there are professionals still doing stuff, but that is absurd.

01:01:08 ◼   ► Right. That dot matrix printers are still being used in nearly 2020 is where we're at.

01:01:14 ◼   ► Right. But so like there are there are professionals everywhere that use all types of

01:01:19 ◼   ► weird edge case technology.

01:01:20 ◼   ► But I think that we shouldn't, I just don't think that anybody,

01:01:24 ◼   ► especially who works in and around technology should be of the assumption

01:01:29 ◼   ► that somebody could not get their work done on a powerful device like this.

01:01:33 ◼   ► Like, yes, there are issues, but like how many people's work,

01:01:37 ◼   ► a significant portion of their work is dealing with email.

01:01:41 ◼   ► Like you think you can't deal with all of your email and it's like general

01:01:46 ◼   ► communication amongst coworkers on an iPad.

01:01:48 ◼   ► Like, and that is a perfectly valid thing to use this device for.

01:01:53 ◼   ► And depending on the type of job that you're in, it may take up a massive part

01:01:57 ◼   ► of your time. Like, over 50% of my responsibilities, like individual

01:02:03 ◼   ► responsibilities, way over 50% of those are conducted on iOS.

01:02:06 ◼   ► When it comes to actually time spent at computing devices, I probably spend more

01:02:10 ◼   ► time in front of a Mac because the uninterrupted time of recording and

01:02:16 ◼   ► editing podcasts is longer time, but individual jobs, roles and responsibilities, I do more

01:02:22 ◼   ► of those in front of my iPad, as well as all of my just socialising time, right? Browsing

01:02:29 ◼   ► Twitter and all that kind of stuff. So it ends up being that I spend more time in front

01:02:33 ◼   ► of my iPad, but it's not all work is what I'm trying to say, right? So, you know, like,

01:02:38 ◼   ► and that's because the type of work that I'm doing is like communications work is kind

01:02:43 ◼   ► of been how I've been thinking about it or research and this device is perfect for that

01:02:48 ◼   ► in some cases it's better because the app support is better and they're more new and

01:02:53 ◼   ► it's more modern right and so this is just the thing it's like it's not an absurd thing

01:02:58 ◼   ► to assume that people were doing this which just surprises me that people get so you know

01:03:05 ◼   ► I got to see these tweets that are so like fixed in statement where it's like professionals

01:03:11 ◼   ► professionals can't use the iPad. Like, alright, maybe you can't in your job and that's totally

01:03:17 ◼   ► fine, right? But that's fine, but let's not be so presumptuous, especially when, if you

01:03:27 ◼   ► listen to podcasts, you know that there are people that do it, because you hear us. Like,

01:03:34 ◼   ► if you listen to the show, you can't say no professionals are using iPads, because...

01:03:40 ◼   ► I think you must have paid attention before.

01:03:42 ◼   ► I think some people honestly still believe that folks like you and I, we use the iPad to prove a point.

01:03:53 ◼   ► And if you think that...

01:03:55 ◼   ► What's the point that we're trying to prove?

01:03:58 ◼   ► I think there's some people that seriously still believe that.

01:04:02 ◼   ► Yeah. Like we made a decision and now we can't get out of it kind of thing.

01:04:07 ◼   ► Nobody's forcing me to use an iPad

01:04:09 ◼   ► Again, I'm buying a Mac Mini so

01:04:12 ◼   ► For important parts of our jobs, right? Also if I wanted to prove a point

01:04:19 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure the five years I would have proven my point

01:04:23 ◼   ► Hobble my entire workflow just to own some some jerk on Twitter like

01:04:30 ◼   ► Also, I

01:04:34 ◼   ► I'm not sure how I feel about this sentence that I've seen in many reviews. It's still an iPad

01:04:41 ◼   ► Okay, what if that's exactly what I want like for some people

01:04:47 ◼   ► The iPad still being an iPad is an important factor

01:04:52 ◼   ► There's people who if the iPad were to turn into a MacBook that would be a problem

01:04:58 ◼   ► so I

01:05:00 ◼   ► understand why

01:05:02 ◼   ► that

01:05:04 ◼   ► expression was used in many many reviews for these iPad pros.

01:05:08 ◼   ► I think it's important, again, keep an open mind. I try to consider the different perspective of someone saying,

01:05:15 ◼   ► "I want it to still be an iPad and not turn into a PC." Like,

01:05:20 ◼   ► "I want it to be a screen that I can attach and detach from a keyboard."

01:05:24 ◼   ► "I want it to, you know, have a SIM and cellular and all of these things."

01:05:27 ◼   ► "I don't want it to have a desktop OS on it. I want it to run iOS." So,

01:05:34 ◼   ► I would have liked to see more reviews from...

01:05:39 ◼   ► and I'm not saying this because I didn't have a review.

01:05:42 ◼   ► All right, let me say it then. Let me say it then because I tweeted it.

01:05:45 ◼   ► I tweeted it because I felt like I just had to say it because you weren't saying it.

01:05:49 ◼   ► I don't know why Apple think that their best PR strategy

01:05:56 ◼   ► is to not put this device in the hands of people that admittedly use them every single day.

01:06:03 ◼   ► Because if you do not use an iPad to get your work done every day, of course, if you use

01:06:11 ◼   ► it for four days, you are not going to find it a satisfactory experience.

01:06:17 ◼   ► Right?

01:06:18 ◼   ► No, not at all.

01:06:19 ◼   ► If you use a Mac to do whatever, if you have like a CMS, which does not play well with

01:06:25 ◼   ► iOS, like you are not going to be happy.

01:06:28 ◼   ► why when we make changes to our CMS at Relay FM, one of the top points is it has to work

01:06:33 ◼   ► on iOS because I need to use it, right? Like we have like drag and drop stuff on our CMS.

01:06:42 ◼   ► We have like the links that you see, they're added by this cool book, Marklet. I can drag

01:06:46 ◼   ► and drop them in a web browser because we need that because otherwise I would be very

01:06:52 ◼   ► upset.

01:06:53 ◼   ► So like...

01:06:54 ◼   ► Add them in the order you want.

01:06:56 ◼   ► No errors.

01:06:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:06:58 ◼   ► So, you know, so I understand, but it seems very perplexing to me that there are people

01:07:05 ◼   ► that have relationships with PR and Apple, like Federico, like Jason Snell, who admittedly

01:07:12 ◼   ► use iPads every single day, but neither Federico or Jason Snell got embargoed review units

01:07:19 ◼   ► to write a review on day one when the reviews came out.

01:07:22 ◼   ► And that is really weird to me because it puts the perception out into the world because

01:07:28 ◼   ► every review, except for John Gruber's that I read, read the same and they all made that

01:07:33 ◼   ► point, which again, very valid point.

01:07:36 ◼   ► But that's not a mix.

01:07:37 ◼   ► You know, like I really enjoyed John Gruber's review because he just didn't talk about this.

01:07:41 ◼   ► All right.

01:07:42 ◼   ► And my assumption would be because he knows, he knows how he feels.

01:07:45 ◼   ► He knows that everybody that reads his site knows how he feels.

01:07:49 ◼   ► He doesn't use iOS for work.

01:07:50 ◼   ► He might write on it, but he uses a Mac.

01:07:53 ◼   ► He is a Mac lover.

01:07:54 ◼   ► But he spoke about, and I loved his angle of just like, this machine is obsessively

01:08:00 ◼   ► powerful, like way more than it needs, way more than it's going to need.

01:08:05 ◼   ► But it just is because this is Apple kind of proving a point and showing what they can

01:08:09 ◼   ► do when they make the silicon and comparing that back to the all the Macs that were released.

01:08:15 ◼   ► Really interesting.

01:08:16 ◼   ► refreshing because it was different because the rest of them all focused heavily and all

01:08:21 ◼   ► the headlines were written. Like all of the headlines just were some variation of "yeah

01:08:28 ◼   ► but it's still not good enough" right? Like because I can't make Google Chrome my default

01:08:32 ◼   ► web browser. Like you know like I would love Google Chrome to be my default web browser

01:08:36 ◼   ► but it's not my residing point about what using iOS is like. So...

01:08:42 ◼   ► And the idea that I've seen some people on Twitter say well they haven't given... this

01:08:46 ◼   ► is a ridiculous argument. They haven't given iPad Pros to iPad enthusiasts. I always see

01:08:54 ◼   ► like some shade of like of sark of irony in that word enthusiast, but let's just use it

01:09:01 ◼   ► in the...

01:09:02 ◼   ► That's because you're an enthusiast, vlogger, right? That's your problem. You just can't...

01:09:04 ◼   ► That word is it brings up bad memories for Federico Vittucci.

01:09:06 ◼   ► I'm constantly cheering and clapping my head. What happened? I don't do that. I don't do

01:09:12 ◼   ► do that. This argument that Apple hasn't given review units to enthusiasts because those

01:09:21 ◼   ► people would have bought an iPad Pro anyway and instead Apple wanted fair criticism from

01:09:29 ◼   ► people who don't use iPads. But then you wouldn't give Jason Snow a Mac Mini for review either,

01:09:33 ◼   ► you under that logic.

01:09:35 ◼   ► This would be like if you were like a Hollywood company giving advanced screenings of your

01:09:45 ◼   ► new movie to people who are going to hate your new movie and are going to review the

01:09:49 ◼   ► movie and give it like one star. It doesn't make any sense.

01:09:53 ◼   ► That is a fundamental misunderstanding of what a PR strategy is, right? Like a PR strategy

01:09:57 ◼   ► is to get the best thing said about your product. And it's like Rick Allen said in the chat

01:10:03 ◼   ► the exact same thing. They gave Marco the Mac mini, right? Because they knew that this

01:10:07 ◼   ► thing they knew they had made a machine that he would like, right? Like, and they were

01:10:12 ◼   ► right. He likes that machine very much. You may know they did not give him a MacBook Air.

01:10:16 ◼   ► Yeah, but you know, Apple PR works in mysterious ways sometimes and it's totally fine. Like

01:10:21 ◼   ► I get it. Sometimes you get advanced access, sometimes you don't and it's okay. Because

01:10:28 ◼   ► ultimately I work for my readers. I don't work for Apple PR. So I got an iPad Pro.

01:10:35 ◼   ► I would actually say that for you it kind of doesn't matter in the sense of the traffic

01:10:40 ◼   ► to your website. Because whenever you write an article about this iPad, it's going to

01:10:43 ◼   ► get as much attention whether it was then or now. I genuinely believe that. Because

01:10:48 ◼   ► people want to know what you have to say because it's always going to be different. I personally

01:10:52 ◼   ► feel as well I prefer to read the non embargoed Federico Vittucci articles because you have

01:10:57 ◼   ► the amount of time that you want to think through everything rather than just writing

01:11:01 ◼   ► what a lot of what other people can write, which is like, here is what this device is

01:11:06 ◼   ► like, here are the specifications because there's only so much you can do in three days.

01:11:10 ◼   ► I was reminded of how the original Macintosh was reviewed. So I found this like roundup

01:11:15 ◼   ► post on fortune. How would you remember that? I was reminded how how were you reminded?

01:11:24 ◼   ► I have come across them before, I was not around.

01:11:27 ◼   ► - Okay, sure.

01:11:28 ◼   ► - And I remember the one because Dvorak

01:11:32 ◼   ► like made fun of the mouse,

01:11:33 ◼   ► and it looks like a big goofball in hindsight,

01:11:36 ◼   ► but if you read through these,

01:11:38 ◼   ► and granted this is like clipped

01:11:39 ◼   ► to like find the most egregious things,

01:11:43 ◼   ► there were complaints that Apple didn't understand

01:11:46 ◼   ► what people wanted,

01:11:47 ◼   ► or that Apple was forcing a vision on people

01:11:50 ◼   ► and they wouldn't be able to do real work on it.

01:11:51 ◼   ► I mean the Mac was considered a toy

01:11:54 ◼   ► by large numbers of people in the computing community

01:11:58 ◼   ► in the '80s because it had a mouse and a user interface.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Whereas the command line, this is not a real computer.

01:12:05 ◼   ► And we see how eventually everything became like the Mac.

01:12:10 ◼   ► Microsoft moved from MS-DOS to Windows,

01:12:14 ◼   ► and the world now, for a long time,

01:12:18 ◼   ► has run on computers with user interfaces.

01:12:20 ◼   ► I think there are strong parallels to the iPad.

01:12:23 ◼   ► people who, yes, like to your point,

01:12:26 ◼   ► there are people that the iPad is not for,

01:12:28 ◼   ► because the iPad hasn't reached certain milestones

01:12:31 ◼   ► that they need, right?

01:12:32 ◼   ► Look at something like app development.

01:12:34 ◼   ► If you're an iOS developer, you can't do that sort of work

01:12:37 ◼   ► on your iPad, maybe one day that'll change.

01:12:39 ◼   ► That was actually true of the Mac as well.

01:12:41 ◼   ► To write Mac software, you had to have a Lisa.

01:12:43 ◼   ► I was like, not a great look.

01:12:46 ◼   ► But the point is that we are still,

01:12:48 ◼   ► even though we're eight years in,

01:12:50 ◼   ► We are still in the first era,

01:12:54 ◼   ► maybe starting to see the second era

01:12:56 ◼   ► with like iOS 10, 11, and the multitasking stuff,

01:13:00 ◼   ► but we are in the beginning days of this platform still.

01:13:04 ◼   ► And that means that there are people that it works for

01:13:08 ◼   ► and there are people that it doesn't work for yet.

01:13:11 ◼   ► And as time moves forward, the number of people,

01:13:16 ◼   ► the types of things these devices can do will only expand.

01:13:19 ◼   ► Now we can have a conversation about the rate of expansion.

01:13:22 ◼   ► I think the three of us agree that Apple needs to move

01:13:24 ◼   ► more aggressively here, especially when the hardware

01:13:27 ◼   ► is so far ahead of the software.

01:13:29 ◼   ► This is just how products evolve.

01:13:32 ◼   ► You know, nothing, nothing, nothing in the world technology

01:13:37 ◼   ► is birthed fully formed, right?

01:13:39 ◼   ► Like the iPhone, the original iPhone was a joke

01:13:43 ◼   ► compared to what the iPhone, even what the iPhone 4

01:13:45 ◼   ► could do, and again, that was hardware and software.

01:13:48 ◼   ► and the iPad is on that same track,

01:13:51 ◼   ► again, moving probably too slowly,

01:13:53 ◼   ► but you are, in saying that you can't do your work

01:13:57 ◼   ► on an iPad, that may be totally true and legitimate

01:13:59 ◼   ► in someone else's life, but by saying that no one can do it,

01:14:03 ◼   ► you are projecting your situation onto other people.

01:14:08 ◼   ► And the truth is, there are people who could do their work

01:14:10 ◼   ► on a Macintosh in 1985, right?

01:14:13 ◼   ► And it actually started with people doing the types

01:14:17 ◼   ► the things that the two of you do on your iPad every day.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Yes, you weren't doing development.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Yes, you weren't doing crazy video production

01:14:24 ◼   ► like The Verge needs for their reviews.

01:14:26 ◼   ► But like, sort of lower hanging fruit tasks,

01:14:28 ◼   ► like the iPad was really good at in the beginning,

01:14:30 ◼   ► and then you slowly work up that chain

01:14:33 ◼   ► to more and more complex things.

01:14:35 ◼   ► And people just want to compare the Mac platform,

01:14:38 ◼   ► which is 34 years old, to the iPad platform that's eight.

01:14:42 ◼   ► That's an unfair comparison,

01:14:43 ◼   ► and anytime you draw that line that way,

01:14:46 ◼   ► The iPad will always come up short because it hasn't had the time to mature.

01:14:51 ◼   ► I think that historic context is important when talking about platforms.

01:14:56 ◼   ► It's one thing to talk about, "Oh, it has a USB-C port or it has Lightning.

01:14:59 ◼   ► What does that mean?"

01:15:00 ◼   ► But when we're talking about platforms, we're talking about what this thing is in the world,

01:15:05 ◼   ► you have to have that context because the iPad does not exist in a vacuum.

01:15:09 ◼   ► It exists in a world with PCs and Macs and iPhones and all these other things.

01:15:13 ◼   ► And as it finds its ground, you have to remember that that takes time and pouring cold water

01:15:20 ◼   ► on it too early, you're just you're doing yourself a disservice.

01:15:23 ◼   ► You're going to look like Dvorak saying that the mouse was a joke.

01:15:26 ◼   ► And we all know that how that turned out.

01:15:28 ◼   ► That's very good.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Thank you for that.

01:15:30 ◼   ► Because like that that historical context is refreshing and like consoling to me.

01:15:35 ◼   ► Honestly, it's like soothing my soul like that, that there are other people that have

01:15:40 ◼   ► been through this before me in the Apple ecosystem.

01:15:43 ◼   ► I wanted to share one last thing which I found very interesting.

01:15:47 ◼   ► I as I mentioned, I shared a thought on Twitter that like I agreed

01:15:51 ◼   ► with the criticism, but felt like Apple had done a disservice to the product,

01:15:56 ◼   ► basically by not giving these devices to people that use them every day

01:15:59 ◼   ► to to review them.

01:16:01 ◼   ► And I and I had there was lots of lots of replies.

01:16:05 ◼   ► I got to this and there were lots of different

01:16:08 ◼   ► opinions, but there were a couple of things that were caught

01:16:12 ◼   ► that I could I was seeing were happening an awful lot,

01:16:15 ◼   ► which I just found really interesting.

01:16:18 ◼   ► So like as well as the usual arguments, right, of iPads not being for professionals,

01:16:22 ◼   ► the people that like want to take the iPad hostage and be like,

01:16:26 ◼   ► I will not do anything until

01:16:29 ◼   ► I like I want to buy one, but I refuse to buy one until Apple updates iOS.

01:16:36 ◼   ► Right. Like this.

01:16:38 ◼   ► OK, like I agree with that, but like it's fine.

01:16:41 ◼   ► we don't all need to know but like whatever. But there was a there was a common argument which was

01:16:47 ◼   ► being levied at me. People were demanding of me to tell them why this iPad Pro was a meaningful

01:16:55 ◼   ► update. They wanted to know what features were new, they demanded to know what could be done on

01:17:00 ◼   ► this iPad that couldn't be done on previous iPads and that I had to basically prove this is the only

01:17:06 ◼   ► reason for why anyone would want to buy this device.

01:17:10 ◼   ► And I found this really interesting because this is not an argument that I ever see for

01:17:16 ◼   ► any other product.

01:17:18 ◼   ► When I talk about the iPhone, I do not have people saying to me, "What can you do on this

01:17:24 ◼   ► iPhone that you couldn't do on any other iPhone?

01:17:28 ◼   ► It is only worth it if there is something new that you can do."

01:17:32 ◼   ► And I find that so interesting. And I wonder where it's coming from. I wonder why it's

01:17:37 ◼   ► happening. There's always requirements for people that they want to try and justify a

01:17:41 ◼   ► purchase. I get that. But I never see this type of thing. Like, for example, the MacBook

01:17:47 ◼   ► Air. Or the Mac Mini. You can't do anything new on those devices. You can do some things

01:17:55 ◼   ► faster. You can do some things more efficiently. But the Mac Mini doesn't do anything that

01:18:00 ◼   ► old Mac Mini couldn't also do. But we're not saying that you must justify what is new that

01:18:08 ◼   ► can be accomplished via this Mac Mini for it to be a worthy purchase. And I found that

01:18:15 ◼   ► kind of fascinating that this was like you can you can go to the tweet and you can look

01:18:20 ◼   ► through the replies like I'm not blowing this out of proportion. This was a lot of people

01:18:24 ◼   ► for asking me this question or a version of this question. I will put it in our show notes

01:18:30 ◼   ► for you so you can see it. But it was kind of, it was very interesting to me because

01:18:37 ◼   ► I was wondering, I've never seen something like this before and I couldn't really work

01:18:40 ◼   ► out where this idea was coming from. I wonder if it's a combination of two things, the price

01:18:50 ◼   ► increase, which we talked about last week, but also the issue of iPad hardware advancing

01:18:57 ◼   ► at a different pace than software. So you get the beautiful new hardware, but the software

01:19:01 ◼   ► is the old one. And maybe that creates this annoyance in people of, "Well, I'm spending

01:19:10 ◼   ► more money on a thing that runs old software," if that makes sense.

01:19:15 ◼   ► Yep, I agree with that.

01:19:16 ◼   ► But again, like I feel like that there are like so all of the Macs

01:19:19 ◼   ► that have been that have been released are in this exact same boat.

01:19:23 ◼   ► They're all more expensive.

01:19:24 ◼   ► Yeah. And they all have the same version of Mac OS.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Mojave has been out for a bit.

01:19:29 ◼   ► You know, like the iPhones are the same because iOS, the version of iOS is out.

01:19:34 ◼   ► You know, like on.

01:19:35 ◼   ► So like, what do you want me to tell you? What?

01:19:36 ◼   ► Memoji? Like that's a thing, right?

01:19:38 ◼   ► Like, what do you want from me?

01:19:40 ◼   ► Like people, people get work worked up about the

01:19:45 ◼   ► the iPad. Always have, and probably always will be.

01:19:48 ◼   ► They always will, yep. And I think we know the reasons for that, right? Like, there are

01:19:52 ◼   ► people that just think it's stupid, there are people that think that it's killing what

01:19:55 ◼   ► they love, it's like this war of ideology, and it comes out in many different ways.

01:20:01 ◼   ► Being through these waves of iPad excitement and iPad criticism since 2012, that's when

01:20:10 ◼   ► I started seriously considering the iPad and in 2013 I switched. And it's probably, I think,

01:20:16 ◼   ► a couple years more than you, Myke. And I've seen it all. On each iPad announcement there's

01:20:24 ◼   ► the excitement of folks who really like the iPad, followed by a couple of weeks of this

01:20:29 ◼   ► type of criticism, and then it quiets down and works on the iPad, keeps working on the

01:20:34 ◼   ► iPad and every few months the argument reappears that the iPad is not a computer because somebody

01:20:41 ◼   ► writes a blog post and everybody starts to pile on. You know how it works in the Apple

01:20:45 ◼   ► community, right? Somebody writes something and suddenly it becomes a thing to discuss.

01:20:51 ◼   ► So this will be over again in a couple of weeks and I want to see what Apple does to

01:20:59 ◼   ► iOS 12.2 and 12.3, I do believe that some features like USB drive access shouldn't wait until iOS 13.

01:21:08 ◼   ► That's... it totally can be an iOS... a point update. And it should be a point update. Just make it a

01:21:14 ◼   ► destination in files. That's all people want, and it's something that Apple can do at a system level,

01:21:19 ◼   ► they don't need to work with developers, it can happen. So I want to see what happens in terms of

01:21:24 ◼   ► updates. But we've been through this before, it'll be over soon, it'll spark up again soon also,

01:21:31 ◼   ► but ultimately we just gotta have an honest conversation about what Apple needs to do on iOS.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Keep an open mind that some folks like working on a Mac, some folks like working on an iPad,

01:21:43 ◼   ► and we'll be fine. So that's my guiding light, if it helps. I've seen it before, it'll happen again,

01:21:51 ◼   ► But don't worry, it's going to be OK.

01:21:53 ◼   ► I want to talk about something now that bridges the Mac and the iPad,

01:21:59 ◼   ► and that is Luna Display, one of our final sponsor for this week's episode.

01:22:04 ◼   ► If you have a Mac and you have an iPad,

01:22:06 ◼   ► there is something missing in your setup, and that is Luna Display.

01:22:09 ◼   ► This is something that could change the way that you interact with your devices,

01:22:11 ◼   ► something that you'll be so excited to have in your life.

01:22:15 ◼   ► That is Luna Display.

01:22:16 ◼   ► Luna have given us maybe a little taste of the future

01:22:19 ◼   ► because they give you the ability to use your iPad as a wireless display for your

01:22:23 ◼   ► Mac that can also be interacted with touch.

01:22:26 ◼   ► You heard me right, the iPad and the Mac that you already own working harmoniously

01:22:30 ◼   ► together. Isn't that wonderful? Isn't that useful?

01:22:34 ◼   ► You can connect over Wi-Fi or USB. Boom. More screen real estate.

01:22:38 ◼   ► Just plug in a little piece of hardware into your Mac and you are good to go.

01:22:41 ◼   ► And that is what Luna Display is all about. It's wonderful.

01:22:43 ◼   ► This means you can have multiple screens even when you travel.

01:22:47 ◼   ► you so you've got your laptop right but you can have your iPad with you as well that's two screens

01:22:51 ◼   ► you don't have to lug around an extra monitor i mean that's like why would you who would want to

01:22:55 ◼   ► like take a like an extra monitor and like a backpack you know go i got my laptop i'm on the

01:23:00 ◼   ► train let's get the monitor out no we don't want to do that but you can use your macbook you can

01:23:04 ◼   ► use your ipad together perfectly and don't just take my word from it like there lunar has been

01:23:10 ◼   ► reviewed greatly everywhere tech crunch described the visual fidelity as frankly stunning apple

01:23:15 ◼   ► insider said it is the first time a wireless solution like this has impressed them. I know

01:23:19 ◼   ► that you're going to want to go and check these things out so go to lunardisplay.com that is

01:23:23 ◼   ► l-u-n-a-d-i-s-p-l-a-y dot com lunardisplay.com once you're there use the promo code connected

01:23:30 ◼   ► at checkout and you'll get 10% off that is lunardisplay.com and the promo code connected

01:23:36 ◼   ► at checkout our thanks to lunar display for their support of this show and relay fm.

01:23:41 ◼   ► So Steven, can we just like talk about CarPlay or something? Can we just do that now?

01:23:47 ◼   ► I do talk about CarPlay. Thank you.

01:23:48 ◼   ► Because I had a lot of questions about this. So I recently bought a pickup truck,

01:23:54 ◼   ► which I just want to gloss over with the two of you.

01:23:55 ◼   ► That's all we need to say about that. And it's a Toyota and it had Toyota's

01:24:02 ◼   ► like entertainment center screen in it. They call it Intune, I believe. And to call it a dumpster

01:24:10 ◼   ► fire is being generous to actual dumpsters that are on fire.

01:24:14 ◼   ► It's just really bad.

01:24:16 ◼   ► It has this fun thing where if you would use Siri

01:24:20 ◼   ► or if you got a phone call and music was playing,

01:24:22 ◼   ► sometimes it would just reboot.

01:24:24 ◼   ► Like it was like, "Oh no, too many things are going on, ah!"

01:24:26 ◼   ► And then it's like, your head unit would just restart

01:24:29 ◼   ► while you're driving down the road,

01:24:30 ◼   ► which is very concerning.

01:24:32 ◼   ► And I just wasn't happy with it.

01:24:34 ◼   ► And so I did a little research and this particular truck,

01:24:37 ◼   ► It's got a standard double-din head unit,

01:24:42 ◼   ► which means you can basically slot in another head unit

01:24:45 ◼   ► with a little bit of work.

01:24:47 ◼   ► So I did some homework, and I ended up with the,

01:24:49 ◼   ► we'll put a link to this in the show notes,

01:24:51 ◼   ► but I ended up with the Sony XAV-AX100,

01:24:56 ◼   ► which is just rolls--

01:24:58 ◼   ► - Oh, I know that one so well.

01:25:00 ◼   ► - Rolls right off the--

01:25:02 ◼   ► - Yeah, that's the best one.

01:25:03 ◼   ► - It's my favorite one, really.

01:25:05 ◼   ► It probably is actually.

01:25:08 ◼   ► - Why can't Sony name their products?

01:25:11 ◼   ► Why do they have such a problem with naming products?

01:25:14 ◼   ► - You tell me, I bought the headphones.

01:25:17 ◼   ► I don't know how to name these headphones.

01:25:20 ◼   ► I don't know how to describe them to my friends.

01:25:23 ◼   ► I just say, I got the latest Sony USB-C headphones

01:25:27 ◼   ► because their name is something ridiculous

01:25:29 ◼   ► like MX-AC something 3000.

01:25:32 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:25:33 ◼   ► It's just a bunch of numbers and letters.

01:25:35 ◼   ► - It's ridiculous.

01:25:37 ◼   ► I will say, this is not a plug,

01:25:39 ◼   ► it's just the site that I went to.

01:25:41 ◼   ► Crutchfield, like if you're interested

01:25:42 ◼   ► in doing this sort of stuff,

01:25:43 ◼   ► you can plug in what car you have

01:25:46 ◼   ► and what you wanna do and they like,

01:25:47 ◼   ► this is the head unit, this is all the wiring you need.

01:25:49 ◼   ► It was really easy, I just ordered everything from them.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Actually the head unit I got as an open box return

01:25:56 ◼   ► at Best Buy 'cause it was a bunch of money off,

01:25:58 ◼   ► which was cool.

01:25:59 ◼   ► But, so I went with the Sony.

01:26:01 ◼   ► It is a wired CarPlay unit.

01:26:03 ◼   ► So CarPlay will work with wired and there are a couple of options for wireless CarPlay.

01:26:10 ◼   ► If you're doing this aftermarket like I did, you're going to pay twice as much for the

01:26:15 ◼   ► wireless CarPlay.

01:26:17 ◼   ► The reviews I read for the couple that were compatible with my vehicle, the reviews were

01:26:22 ◼   ► pretty hit or miss for something you're going to spend $700 or $800 on.

01:26:25 ◼   ► Yeah, wired and wireless is like plugging the iPhone into a cable that goes into the

01:26:30 ◼   ► car somewhere, right?

01:26:31 ◼   ► Yes.

01:26:32 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

01:26:33 ◼   ► I have mine just right by the gear shift.

01:26:35 ◼   ► And it's totally fine because I'm going to plug my phone in any way

01:26:39 ◼   ► to charge it.

01:26:40 ◼   ► So wired car plate is totally fine.

01:26:43 ◼   ► I didn't see the need to spend twice as much and then plug in my phone

01:26:48 ◼   ► anyways to charge it.

01:26:49 ◼   ► So yeah, so I have a USB cable.

01:26:52 ◼   ► And here's a top tip.

01:26:55 ◼   ► If you use a lightning cable in your car, the Apple ones, for whatever reason,

01:26:59 ◼   ► I've always had them really fall apart in the car,

01:27:01 ◼   ► I think because of the heat.

01:27:03 ◼   ► And so I switched to the Amazon Basics one,

01:27:06 ◼   ► has like a cloth wrapped lightning cable,

01:27:09 ◼   ► and I've never had one of those fail in a car.

01:27:11 ◼   ► They're great.

01:27:12 ◼   ► - Because it wouldn't melt, right?

01:27:13 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

01:27:15 ◼   ► They got several colors, I got a gray one,

01:27:16 ◼   ► whatever, it's fine.

01:27:17 ◼   ► So I gotta plug the phone in, and then carplay happens.

01:27:20 ◼   ► The other thing that I got,

01:27:22 ◼   ► I heard a little bit about this unit,

01:27:23 ◼   ► is that it is a resistive touchscreen,

01:27:26 ◼   ► so it's not capacitive.

01:27:28 ◼   ► - Oh no.

01:27:28 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:29 ◼   ► No, bad, bad screen.

01:27:31 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:27:32 ◼   ► Get out, get out.

01:27:34 ◼   ► - One, what was in the truck was resistive,

01:27:37 ◼   ► and two, it is by far, this particular head unit

01:27:41 ◼   ► that I put in, by far the most responsive

01:27:45 ◼   ► resistive touchscreen I've used.

01:27:46 ◼   ► Again, you can find them with better screens,

01:27:49 ◼   ► but again, you're gonna pay a lot more.

01:27:51 ◼   ► - Let me ask you, let me ask you real quick,

01:27:52 ◼   ► I wanna try and put this in context, right?

01:27:55 ◼   ► The most, what is the most responsive resistive touchscreen

01:27:59 ◼   ► actually like, though? - I mean, that's a low bar,

01:28:02 ◼   ► But it's, like, so, CarPlay, and then like the OS that's on the unit itself, there are

01:28:08 ◼   ► several places like you could scroll and not just tap buttons, and like it's perfectly

01:28:14 ◼   ► responsive.

01:28:15 ◼   ► It's fine.

01:28:16 ◼   ► And like, whatever, it's in a car.

01:28:17 ◼   ► - Would you say it's better than a Nintendo DS?

01:28:20 ◼   ► - I don't know if I have enough experience with a Nintendo DS to say.

01:28:24 ◼   ► - Your kids have 'em.

01:28:25 ◼   ► - No, no they don't, they're iPads.

01:28:27 ◼   ► - They, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

01:28:28 ◼   ► they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

01:28:29 ◼   ► they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they, they,

01:28:30 ◼   ► kids today they don't understand gaming consoles. I think you once sent us a picture of your

01:28:35 ◼   ► kids playing with a 3DS. Not my kids. We have a Wii, but then no 3DS. Oh, you have a...

01:28:43 ◼   ► well isn't the Wii resistive? No, we have the original Wii. Oh, not the Wii, you didn't

01:28:49 ◼   ► have the Wii U. No one should have the Wii U. Hey-o! Some people do. Some people do.

01:28:58 ◼   ► do real work on a Wii U. So it's fine. But the big reason I went with this unit...

01:29:02 ◼   ► You can't do really anything on the Wii U. Never could. Junk. Sorry.

01:29:07 ◼   ► Poor Wii U. Federico and Myke have a game podcast called

01:29:13 ◼   ► "Remaster" you should go listen to for more Nintendo hot takes.

01:29:15 ◼   ► We don't dunk on the Wii U as much as we used to. We used to a lot. Like a lot before the

01:29:20 ◼   ► Switch. Kickin' a man when he's down, right? It was very bad. We developed this whole theory

01:29:25 ◼   ► about how bad Nintendo's marketing team was. It was like a whole scene.

01:29:28 ◼   ► So the reason I went with this is because the Sony XAVAX100 has a physical volume button

01:29:37 ◼   ► and 9 out of 10 aftermarket carplay head units do not come with a volume button. They have

01:29:44 ◼   ► like a little slider or you have to go into a menu and I wanted just a physical volume

01:29:50 ◼   ► I know that seems wild, but this one had it and it had good reviews and it was in the

01:29:55 ◼   ► budget, so I went with it.

01:29:58 ◼   ► I like having a physical volume button.

01:30:01 ◼   ► So do you not have volume controls in your steering wheel?

01:30:05 ◼   ► I do.

01:30:06 ◼   ► And so part of this is if you do one of these aftermarket you have to be really careful.

01:30:10 ◼   ► That's why I recommend going to someplace like Crutchfield.

01:30:13 ◼   ► Because they can walk you through, you need to do this wiring if you want your steering

01:30:17 ◼   ► wheel controls to work.

01:30:19 ◼   ► And in my Tacoma, the volume buttons on the steering wheel do work with the very elaborate

01:30:28 ◼   ► wiring I had to do.

01:30:30 ◼   ► But it's nice to be able to just reach up and turn it down.

01:30:34 ◼   ► But if your car doesn't have volume buttons, then this is your, you're stuck with.

01:30:40 ◼   ► And so I did install it myself.

01:30:41 ◼   ► There are a couple Instagram pictures that I'm pretty proud of because it looks like

01:30:45 ◼   ► the inside of my truck just sort of vomited all of its innards out, but it all works.

01:30:50 ◼   ► I like getting my hands dirty, and it's expensive to have this work done. I figured I got a

01:30:54 ◼   ► couple hours on a Sunday afternoon, and now I'll listen to a podcast and do a bunch of

01:30:59 ◼   ► wiring in my driveway. So it all worked.

01:31:03 ◼   ► That first photo is a little scary looking if you get nervous around wires. Don't look

01:31:10 ◼   ► at that first image.

01:31:12 ◼   ► warning for wires. It is very bad. It's just the insides of a car.

01:31:18 ◼   ► It's a lot of stuff. But it all works. It all buttoned up pretty nicely. And this is

01:31:24 ◼   ► my first experience with CarPlay. The only other time I've even ever seen it is I think

01:31:29 ◼   ► last year John Voorhees picked me up at the airport in Chicago and his car has CarPlay.

01:31:35 ◼   ► And that's the only time I've ever seen it. Like, John, I poked at his dashboard for a

01:31:39 ◼   ► a minute and then he got annoyed that I was doing it and maybe stop but it's

01:31:43 ◼   ► it's interesting so the Sony and all these aftermarket ones they have their

01:31:47 ◼   ► own I'm gonna call it an operating system we're like it can do phone calls

01:31:51 ◼   ► and Bluetooth and the backup camera it has all that sort of to itself and car

01:31:58 ◼   ► play is like a mode that the unit goes into so if you plug your phone in and a

01:32:02 ◼   ► carplay button shows up on the screen and you tap that and then you're in car

01:32:06 ◼   ► play. does that make sense? yeah it does. my favorite actually is because I'm

01:32:10 ◼   ► adding your photos to our show notes, I really find it funny that the finished

01:32:14 ◼   ► picture is not actually in the CarPlay interface. I find that so funny like why

01:32:19 ◼   ► didn't you open the CarPlay interface? yeah I don't know. Why did you do that? I don't understand.

01:32:24 ◼   ► Because I've been putting tiny wires together for like six hours. I do have... yeah so we'll get to the

01:32:32 ◼   ► CarPlay interface itself, but I really kind of like that image because it shows

01:32:37 ◼   ► what I'm talking about. The CarPlay is just an app on this thing. Yeah, yeah, it's

01:32:40 ◼   ► there. So I plug the phone in. iOS has a setting where you can change, if you can

01:32:45 ◼   ► say does my phone need to be unlocked or not. So my wife drove it the other night

01:32:48 ◼   ► and her iPhone 8, like it wouldn't work and so she had to unlock her phone first.

01:32:52 ◼   ► So I turned that off on my XS Max. I could sort of plug it in to be done. There's

01:32:56 ◼   ► hardly any settings for CarPlay itself. Basically the only thing you get is what

01:33:00 ◼   ► apps appear in what order. So there's a screenshot of this in the show notes

01:33:04 ◼   ► where, you know, CarPlay is really interesting to me like from a platform

01:33:08 ◼   ► perspective because Apple like you have to be allowed to write a CarPlay app

01:33:13 ◼   ► right like you can't just just do it and you have to have all these special

01:33:19 ◼   ► permissions and so for me on my phone just you know with what I have to sell

01:33:23 ◼   ► to my phone because I own a podcast company I have a lot of podcast clients

01:33:27 ◼   ► I was like, you can install six different podcast apps.

01:33:30 ◼   ► But you can control what goes on the home screen

01:33:34 ◼   ► and what order it's in.

01:33:36 ◼   ► And so you can see how I have mine set up there

01:33:39 ◼   ► with the only third party apps are Google Maps and Overcast.

01:33:42 ◼   ► And CarPlay is like, it's weird.

01:33:46 ◼   ► It is an extension of what's on the phone.

01:33:50 ◼   ► So like the closest analogy I could think of,

01:33:53 ◼   ► and it's not a good one so forgive me,

01:33:54 ◼   ► but if you think about your running Keynote

01:33:56 ◼   ► and you have your slides on your iPad or Mac screen,

01:33:59 ◼   ► and then you have what's going on in the projector, right?

01:34:02 ◼   ► And the Mac or iPad screen is controlling

01:34:05 ◼   ► what's on the projector, right?

01:34:06 ◼   ► I think that makes sense.

01:34:08 ◼   ► CarPlay is kind of like that,

01:34:10 ◼   ► so if I am using CarPlay to listen to Overcast,

01:34:15 ◼   ► so I have connected and this episode up on the screen,

01:34:19 ◼   ► and I pull into my driveway, I put the truck in park,

01:34:22 ◼   ► everyone's safe, and I pick up my phone to open Slack,

01:34:25 ◼   ► Overcast will disappear from the CarPlay screen

01:34:29 ◼   ► and it will go back to the springboard.

01:34:30 ◼   ► It'll just go back to that grid of icons.

01:34:33 ◼   ► But if I went into Messages on my phone,

01:34:35 ◼   ► the Messages UI would show up on CarPlay.

01:34:37 ◼   ► So they're linked in a weird way.

01:34:41 ◼   ► And in a way, I kind of like that

01:34:43 ◼   ► because it's like if I pick up my phone

01:34:46 ◼   ► when I shouldn't in my car, it's like a reminder

01:34:49 ◼   ► because the app that I was listening to music

01:34:51 ◼   ► or the navigation goes away.

01:34:52 ◼   ► And so it's linked in a way,

01:34:54 ◼   ► it kind of feels fragile at times,

01:34:56 ◼   ► but it's an interesting relationship

01:34:58 ◼   ► that I just wasn't aware of,

01:34:59 ◼   ► 'cause again, I had only really used this one time

01:35:01 ◼   ► for like 10 minutes, so.

01:35:03 ◼   ► The phone and CarPlay are linked in a way

01:35:06 ◼   ► that takes a little getting used to.

01:35:09 ◼   ► But what's really nice about this

01:35:11 ◼   ► is that your car suddenly becomes aware

01:35:15 ◼   ► of what's happening on your phone.

01:35:16 ◼   ► So you get an iMessage,

01:35:17 ◼   ► you get a little banner on the CarPlay display,

01:35:19 ◼   ► and if you tap it, you do not see the text.

01:35:24 ◼   ► CarPlay will not ever show you what's being sent to you

01:35:28 ◼   ► in iMessage, nor will it show you a keyboard to respond.

01:35:30 ◼   ► It will read the message to you,

01:35:33 ◼   ► it will ask you if you want to reply,

01:35:34 ◼   ► and then you can reply.

01:35:35 ◼   ► It's all done by voice.

01:35:38 ◼   ► So I had to run a microphone so it would hear me,

01:35:42 ◼   ► because the built-in system, like that microphone,

01:35:46 ◼   ► doesn't work with anything else,

01:35:47 ◼   ► so you have to run your own mic.

01:35:49 ◼   ► And I can just, Siri can just read me my messages,

01:35:52 ◼   ► And if I'm on the home screen,

01:35:55 ◼   ► the messages icon gets a badge

01:35:57 ◼   ► so I can see how many iMessages are there waiting for me,

01:36:01 ◼   ► which is a nice touch.

01:36:03 ◼   ► And it's actually pretty seamless to deal with iMessage.

01:36:06 ◼   ► In fact, there have been a couple times talking to y'all

01:36:09 ◼   ► where I've just had conversations with you

01:36:12 ◼   ► when I'm stuck in traffic via Siri.

01:36:14 ◼   ► And unless Siri just butchers what I say,

01:36:17 ◼   ► you would probably never know.

01:36:19 ◼   ► And I think that's a pretty nice feature,

01:36:21 ◼   ► one that I've never had in a car before because before this I said like a

01:36:24 ◼   ► Bluetooth connection to stream audio so it's nice to have that stuff but it's

01:36:29 ◼   ► really done in a way that's not distracting like if you don't deal with

01:36:31 ◼   ► that banner it just goes away on its own and you know there's there waiting for

01:36:36 ◼   ► you when you want to deal with them it's never super invasive into your driving

01:36:39 ◼   ► experience which is good. So how do you find yourself like interacting with it

01:36:47 ◼   ► all the time. Do you have to dictate everything to Siri? Like, you know, you doing that or

01:36:53 ◼   ► are you kind of just like, you'll get typically would you just get a message and leave it

01:36:58 ◼   ► or like are you finding yourself talking to Siri and then when you do that, is it through

01:37:03 ◼   ► the car or is it through the phone? Like how does that work?

01:37:06 ◼   ► Yeah, I do. I am finding myself talking to Siri a lot more than I thought it would. And

01:37:10 ◼   ► again, this is new. I've only had this in a couple weeks. So you know, maybe I'm still

01:37:13 ◼   ► in the honeymoon phase. But if I get a message from somebody, so like the other

01:37:17 ◼   ► day my dad and I were going back and forth and I had to go run an errand, like

01:37:20 ◼   ► we just kept the conversation going when it was, you know, convenient for me to do

01:37:25 ◼   ► so. And, you know, for like maps and other stuff you can you can use your voice to

01:37:31 ◼   ► say, "Hey, I want to go here." But messages is by far the most interactive thing. You

01:37:36 ◼   ► past that, I'm using Siri to play music. Most of the time, even like with

01:37:44 ◼   ► Overcast, I'm just doing it on the screen. One thing that's really annoying and I

01:37:48 ◼   ► don't know if this is CarPlay or if it's Overcast or if it's iOS 12 point

01:37:53 ◼   ► whatever beta I'm on, but say that I've been playing Overcast just on my phone

01:37:58 ◼   ► speakers in my kitchen. I walk out to my driveway and get in my truck, turn the

01:38:01 ◼   ► key, plug the phone in, music will take over. Overcast will not resume

01:38:05 ◼   ► automatically like it does over a Bluetooth connection which I find

01:38:09 ◼   ► infuriating because most of the time I just want to pick up the podcast I was

01:38:12 ◼   ► just listening to so then I'm going into overcast and finding it but Siri is

01:38:17 ◼   ► definitely like the main interaction for me at least because there's there's

01:38:22 ◼   ► actually kind of no other way to do it right there's no there's no way to you

01:38:28 ◼   ► can go through the menus of music and stuff but if you want to deal with

01:38:30 ◼   ► messages it's it's all Siri and again that's through the microphone that I

01:38:33 ◼   ► installed it's up like on the a pillar by the windshield and it hears me great

01:38:38 ◼   ► if I had some some some phone calls with it and like it sounds great and so the

01:38:43 ◼   ► phone like the whole time the phone is just you know in the console off you

01:38:49 ◼   ► know the screens off it's not doing anything unless I pick it up it is just

01:38:53 ◼   ► acting as the brains of the whole operation I mean are you surprised about

01:39:00 ◼   ► about any of this or is it kind of working

01:39:02 ◼   ► as you would expect it to work or like require it to work?

01:39:06 ◼   ► Like are you finding yourself being like,

01:39:08 ◼   ► oh, that's really nice or is it kind of just like,

01:39:10 ◼   ► yep, that's what it should?

01:39:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I think it does what it should.

01:39:14 ◼   ► I think it seems really solid.

01:39:16 ◼   ► It does some clever things where like in music,

01:39:20 ◼   ► you know, on the iOS, you would like,

01:39:22 ◼   ► you get the scrubber down the right hand side

01:39:24 ◼   ► to like skip down to S for, you know,

01:39:26 ◼   ► a band that starts with S or, you know,

01:39:27 ◼   ► or like whatever letter you want

01:39:29 ◼   ► without just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling.

01:39:31 ◼   ► So that doesn't necessarily translate well

01:39:33 ◼   ► to these type of touch screens.

01:39:35 ◼   ► And so on CarPlay, if you do that,

01:39:38 ◼   ► it pulls up a grid and you just tap the letter you want.

01:39:40 ◼   ► So they've adapted the UI in places where it makes sense.

01:39:44 ◼   ► In fact, there's a virtual home button on the screen

01:39:47 ◼   ► to go back to the home screen,

01:39:48 ◼   ► which is sort of funny because no new devices

01:39:51 ◼   ► have home buttons.

01:39:52 ◼   ► It's like this visual virtual representation

01:39:55 ◼   ► of a thing that isn't really a thing anymore.

01:39:58 ◼   ► But I would say it's pretty solid.

01:40:01 ◼   ► It's weird that if you go to the home screen on your phone,

01:40:04 ◼   ► CarPlay goes to its home screen,

01:40:05 ◼   ► I wish there was some division of labor there,

01:40:07 ◼   ► but other than that, I've been really happy with it

01:40:11 ◼   ► and I think it's definitely way safer

01:40:16 ◼   ► if I wanna deal with messaging when I'm driving

01:40:19 ◼   ► than obviously than picking up the phone,

01:40:21 ◼   ► which is like a terrible, dangerous thing

01:40:23 ◼   ► that you shouldn't do, but most of us are guilty of it.

01:40:26 ◼   ► And this has definitely basically cut that out.

01:40:29 ◼   ► Like I don't, like even at stoplights,

01:40:32 ◼   ► I have not like picked up my phone.

01:40:33 ◼   ► Again, I know I shouldn't,

01:40:34 ◼   ► please don't badger me about that.

01:40:36 ◼   ► But I know that people just do that and--

01:40:40 ◼   ► - There is also an argument

01:40:41 ◼   ► that you shouldn't even be dictating messages, right?

01:40:44 ◼   ► Like that is an argument. - Probably.

01:40:45 ◼   ► - 'Cause it's like attention and stuff.

01:40:46 ◼   ► I don't know. - Yeah.

01:40:48 ◼   ► - I don't know what I think about that.

01:40:49 ◼   ► I'm sure there's a lot of interesting studies,

01:40:51 ◼   ► but like, but yeah.

01:40:52 ◼   ► I've really got a point to that.

01:40:55 ◼   ► And I can use Google Maps everywhere, which is great.

01:40:58 ◼   ► - I'm jealous, I really wanna have car play in my car

01:41:00 ◼   ► and just listening to you, it made me more jealous, so.

01:41:04 ◼   ► - Well you know what you have to do.

01:41:05 ◼   ► - There's nothing I can do.

01:41:06 ◼   ► - Go to Crutchfield or whatever that is.

01:41:08 ◼   ► - Nope, nope, I'm not gonna have car vomit in my car.

01:41:11 ◼   ► - Oh man, I tell you what, when your Mac Mini gets in.

01:41:15 ◼   ► - Not doing it.

01:41:16 ◼   ► - Bring me out and I'll set up your desk,

01:41:20 ◼   ► feel nice and neat, and I'll do your car.

01:41:22 ◼   ► What is have like a day of wires together?

01:41:24 ◼   ► you're like you're like the wire man should be your new title

01:41:29 ◼   ► Steven Hackett is the wire man you know how they do like yeah he gets pretty bad

01:41:34 ◼   ► in season four

01:41:37 ◼   ► I started like cable manage appliances or like things that shouldn't be cable

01:41:44 ◼   ► managed yeah it all goes wrong all of your characters get get like just messed

01:41:49 ◼   ► stuff at that point. I will say connected audience I will be 100%

01:41:55 ◼   ► disappointed if by next week's episode there's not a poster of this.

01:42:00 ◼   ► The Wire Man seems like a movie poster that someone

01:42:04 ◼   ► someone should make so slide into my DMS anytime. Is that it? Yeah I think so.

01:42:12 ◼   ► Are we done? A bunch of stuff this week it was fun we talked about Max from 1995

01:42:18 ◼   ► And we talked about carplay and then I sort of blacked out in the middle so it's a good show

01:42:23 ◼   ► If you want to find links to the stuff we talked about head over to relay.fm slash connected slash

01:42:29 ◼   ► 217 while you're there you can get in touch with us via email or

01:42:34 ◼   ► You can do it you can find us on what are we going to be found this week? We found on Instagram again?

01:42:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm published. I put a link to this in the show notes

01:42:43 ◼   ► I was putting loads of stuff on my Instagram stories about me unboxing my two iPads

01:42:47 ◼   ► and I saved a story highlight of it so you can go and watch it. It's fun I think.

01:42:52 ◼   ► I also want to be discovered on Instagram with my real username not John Borjes. I'm

01:42:58 ◼   ► actually BTT on Instagram too. I forgot that you did that. So it's still V-I-T-I-C-C-I

01:43:05 ◼   ► there as well. I am not John Borjes. He's a different person. So you can find Myke on

01:43:10 ◼   ► on Instagram as I am YKE and you can find me there as Steven M Hackett for

01:43:16 ◼   ► reasons. Do not look up Steven's... No it's better now. I don't know they blocked me so I don't know.

01:43:24 ◼   ► So yeah find us on Instagram and you can find the show notes and I think our

01:43:29 ◼   ► sponsors Squarespace, Simple Contacts and Luna Display for making this week's show

01:43:33 ◼   ► possible and I'm gonna be out next week but the two of you will be back so until

01:43:39 ◼   ► Until then, say goodbye gentlemen.

01:43:41 ◼   ► - Adios, El Chirio.

01:43:42 ◼   ► - Cheerio.