Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Hello and welcome to Connected, Episode 241.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Hover, Squarespace, and Away.

00:00:17 ◼   ► I'm your host, Steven Hackett,

00:00:18 ◼   ► and I am joined by my co-host, Myke Curley.

00:00:21 ◼   ► - Oh, hi.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - Hey buddy, it's an odd episode.

00:00:25 ◼   ► You go first.

00:00:26 ◼   ► - There are always odd episodes when I'm around.

00:00:29 ◼   ► Hmm. And we are joined by Mr. Federico Vatici.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Oh, hey, welcome back. How are you?

00:00:36 ◼   ► It's good to be back. I genuinely missed recording with you all the last couple of weeks. I got

00:00:42 ◼   ► several notes from listeners. Thank you for making sure everything is okay. Just a hectic

00:00:46 ◼   ► family life couple weeks, but everything's cool. And we're back and we're going to talk

00:00:50 ◼   ► about topics.

00:00:53 ◼   ► I'm leaving, by the way. Did I not tell you? I'm out of here. Oh, yeah, I'm off.

00:00:57 ◼   ► You're done?

00:00:58 ◼   ► Figured like I've handed back over now to you. So I'm off now Wow. Well, we had a good run, you know

00:01:04 ◼   ► We've been recording this show and it's pretty sure doing it six years need me. You can keep doing it

00:01:09 ◼   ► It doesn't need you. It's the three of us together

00:01:12 ◼   ► well, or sometimes me John and Casey but

00:01:16 ◼   ► That might happen again in the summer this year, I think we need to talk about that

00:01:23 ◼   ► I've realized this weekend that a

00:01:28 ◼   ► a we are a month away from WDC, which is just extremely upsetting in every way.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Because then then it's summer and people travel,

00:01:37 ◼   ► I'm going to be gone for a week in July. It's like, it's going to be,

00:01:40 ◼   ► when you were a kid, summer was relaxing, right? You didn't have to go to school.

00:01:44 ◼   ► You can just play video games and ride your bike and eat snacks. But as adults,

00:01:48 ◼   ► summer I think is maybe more stressful than the other seasons because everyone is

00:01:52 ◼   ► off doing things and not doing their jobs.

00:01:55 ◼   ► Yeah, I'm currently making the prediction that in July there will only be one episode

00:02:00 ◼   ► where all three of us are on it at the same time. That is my prediction.

00:02:04 ◼   ► Do we score it?

00:02:06 ◼   ► No, we don't need to score it.

00:02:09 ◼   ► You want to score everything.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Because the thing is, there's no point having scores in this because I can win that. I can

00:02:17 ◼   ► just not show up, right? So like, you don't want to score it because then if there's like

00:02:22 ◼   ► points on the line, you just won't hear from me for four weeks. Points are important.

00:02:25 ◼   ► So it's a non-graded prediction. Just making sure.

00:02:30 ◼   ► Because I know when I'm away, I know when Steven's away, and like, I mean, who knows

00:02:35 ◼   ► when you're going to be away? You go away in July.

00:02:38 ◼   ► What do you mean you go away like I'm some kind of nomad?

00:02:43 ◼   ► Like you just live in a beach hut for like two months or something. And then something

00:02:49 ◼   ► that you started doing over the last couple of years, you go to the beach and then take

00:02:52 ◼   ► a vacation and go back to the beach and go home. It's like you take a vacation from your

00:02:56 ◼   ► vacation.

00:02:57 ◼   ► Look, sitting by the Italian seaside is very exhausting.

00:03:01 ◼   ► No, it's just you, once you have a beach house, it's great because you can be on vacation

00:03:07 ◼   ► at your house, but then you also want to go somewhere else, you know, go to a hotel, actually,

00:03:12 ◼   ► you know, treat yourself to a real vacation.

00:03:15 ◼   ► From the vacation?

00:03:16 ◼   ► is not a real vacation. It's your beach house. It's yours. You gotta care about it, you know?

00:03:22 ◼   ► Yeah. But now I can do podcasts from the iPad, so, you know, it's not like when I actually

00:03:30 ◼   ► disappeared years ago. You guys are complaining too much about my summer habits. It's not fair.

00:03:35 ◼   ► It's not a complaint anymore because I'm used to it.

00:03:38 ◼   ► We just accept that you don't love us in June, July.

00:03:41 ◼   ► Yeah, you'd love the beach more.

00:03:44 ◼   ► Well, yeah. You have a point.

00:03:45 ◼   ► Yes, yes. You're actually correct.

00:03:48 ◼   ► All right, I am back. And so I can reinstitute order into the chaos that was the last two

00:03:57 ◼   ► episodes connected. And we're going to start with follow up. Do we have to?

00:04:02 ◼   ► I mean, it is in the document. So we should do it.

00:04:07 ◼   ► Just as a favor to you.

00:04:10 ◼   ► And for the record, Myke put most of this in, not me.

00:04:13 ◼   ► Yeah, I was about to say, in the interest of clarity, this is basically all my follow-up.

00:04:17 ◼   ► iFixit removed their Galaxy Fold teardown. So I referenced this on the last episode of, like,

00:04:23 ◼   ► iFixit pulled apart a Samsung Galaxy Fold and were able to show a bunch of the areas where it failed.

00:04:30 ◼   ► And then a few days later, they were like, "LOL, we had to pull it down because Samsung asked."

00:04:37 ◼   ► And this is just one of those interesting things where I kind of want to get a feeling from YouTube

00:04:42 ◼   ► about a story like this because what's happened is, right, somebody gave that device to iFixit

00:04:49 ◼   ► and probably broke a contract or at least made a situation difficult between Samsung

00:04:56 ◼   ► and the whoever it was that gave iFixit the phone.

00:04:59 ◼   ► And then iFixit went along with the request and took it down.

00:05:03 ◼   ► And considering both of you are real journalists, I want to know what you think of something

00:05:08 ◼   ► like this.

00:05:09 ◼   ► It's kind of shady territory.

00:05:13 ◼   ► Normally, like if you...

00:05:15 ◼   ► See, this is difficult because if you have this kind of source, and the source gets in trouble,

00:05:22 ◼   ► and you want to make sure that this person keeps collaborating with you,

00:05:27 ◼   ► I could see why iFixit wanted to sort of make sure that they would cover,

00:05:34 ◼   ► they would protect the source and do whatever Samsung was requesting.

00:05:38 ◼   ► But also it's not a... I don't think it's a good... Maybe Steven can jump in here.

00:05:43 ◼   ► I don't think it's a good look, journalistically speaking, to have a report out and then just make it disappear as if it never happened.

00:05:54 ◼   ► But also I've been... Years ago I was in a situation where, you know, when you get hit with...

00:06:04 ◼   ► What's it called? The DCMA? The Copyright Millennium Act. And you get hit with that

00:06:10 ◼   ► kind of request and you get a letter from a lawyer, you know, actually multiple lawyers.

00:06:16 ◼   ► It's kind of scary. And you get out, you get out.

00:06:21 ◼   ► I'm sure you obviously can't talk about it, but like,

00:06:24 ◼   ► I prefer not to, but it was really years ago when I was stupid and young and reckless.

00:06:30 ◼   ► So you comply to that, right, when you get that kind of letter and when you're, for example,

00:06:35 ◼   ► when your hosting provider says, "Hey, by the way, we've been contacted by this company

00:06:39 ◼   ► says that you're posting copyrighted content on your server and unless you comply we're

00:06:44 ◼   ► going to shut it down." So I can see why even external, some kind of external pressure from

00:06:51 ◼   ► maybe a CDN company or your hosting provider would say, "Oh, by the way, Samsung got in

00:06:56 ◼   ► in touch with us about photos and details

00:06:58 ◼   ► that you have on your site.

00:06:59 ◼   ► So unless you take it down,

00:07:01 ◼   ► we're gonna actually take down your site.

00:07:03 ◼   ► So yeah, it's difficult, I don't know.

00:07:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, my sort of assumption is that

00:07:10 ◼   ► whatever reviewer get handed their phone off to iFixit,

00:07:14 ◼   ► and I would imagine that Samsung knew who that was

00:07:17 ◼   ► pretty quickly, like they do nice imagery

00:07:20 ◼   ► unless they obscure the serial number.

00:07:22 ◼   ► Samsung probably knows whose phone that was.

00:07:25 ◼   ► And my guess is that, you know,

00:07:28 ◼   ► iFixit took it down because A,

00:07:29 ◼   ► Samsung came knocking with their lawyers,

00:07:32 ◼   ► but they also wanted to somehow preserve

00:07:34 ◼   ► the relationship with the reviewer.

00:07:36 ◼   ► I don't know, my guess is whoever gave it to them

00:07:38 ◼   ► won't be getting any more Samsung review units.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Like, that feels like a showstopper

00:07:43 ◼   ► from the Samsung perspective.

00:07:44 ◼   ► 'Cause when you get a review unit, there is,

00:07:47 ◼   ► well, very often, there's actual paperwork saying,

00:07:50 ◼   ► this is what you can and cannot do with it,

00:07:52 ◼   ► this is who you can and cannot show it to,

00:07:54 ◼   ► And I mean, clearly this has got to be a violation of that

00:07:59 ◼   ► agreement.

00:07:59 ◼   ► If this was a reviewer, which I expect it probably was,

00:08:02 ◼   ► because it doesn't seem like anybody else had access

00:08:05 ◼   ► to these.

00:08:06 ◼   ► I've seen people say, oh, what if it was a carrier?

00:08:08 ◼   ► But I don't think these have been sent to carriers.

00:08:10 ◼   ► I don't think you could buy the phone through.

00:08:13 ◼   ► Maybe-- OK, connected sometimes we have these theories.

00:08:16 ◼   ► And so maybe there was an engineer

00:08:20 ◼   ► at Samsung who knew that they were going to explode.

00:08:23 ◼   ► And he's like, "No, no, don't do it.

00:08:25 ◼   ► "They're gonna fall apart."

00:08:27 ◼   ► And out of blind rage,

00:08:31 ◼   ► he stole a unit from Samsung on the cover of the night

00:08:34 ◼   ► and gave it to iFixit to prove himself correct.

00:08:36 ◼   ► - Also not a wild,

00:08:38 ◼   ► I mean, you've peppered it up with some real espionage,

00:08:41 ◼   ► but that's also not a wild theory either, right,

00:08:43 ◼   ► that it came from inside the house.

00:08:45 ◼   ► - But also, I think when people say carriers,

00:08:48 ◼   ► they don't mean like the carrier store,

00:08:51 ◼   ► but I think they refer to the certification process

00:08:55 ◼   ► that goes on when people who work for a carrier

00:08:58 ◼   ► have to verify that this phone is gonna be on our network.

00:09:02 ◼   ► And so there's multiple engineers that test these new phones,

00:09:05 ◼   ► new and upcoming phones in their labs.

00:09:07 ◼   ► And so it may be somebody from a carrier

00:09:10 ◼   ► that has some kind of long-term loan for these units

00:09:14 ◼   ► and is maybe friends with iFixit,

00:09:17 ◼   ► which will actually explain why

00:09:19 ◼   ► and how I think it is often access to that makes sense because I was wondering right

00:09:25 ◼   ► like if this was a review unit what did the reviewer think was gonna happen like how would

00:09:32 ◼   ► you give this device back to Samsung back like you're like what did you do to it nothing

00:09:38 ◼   ► just like just randomly exploded yeah I mean like that is what they did but you just you

00:09:44 ◼   ► sit back like a ziploc bag full of galaxy fold parts like I dropped it down the stairs

00:09:49 ◼   ► I don't know what happened.

00:09:51 ◼   ► And then I dropped it down the stairs and then a knife landed on it and that's why that

00:09:55 ◼   ► cable's cut in such a specific way.

00:09:57 ◼   ► Every single component just fell apart like a Lego car.

00:10:01 ◼   ► The whole thing is strange.

00:10:03 ◼   ► But my feeling though, really, when I look at this is like, yeah, of course they took

00:10:07 ◼   ► it down.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Because they had to, right?

00:10:11 ◼   ► Like no matter what the situation was, it was either going to be a case that they were

00:10:15 ◼   ► going to get hit by a lawsuit or they have put somebody in hot water and they shouldn't

00:10:22 ◼   ► have done that. But like it was still strange and something I find even weirder like from

00:10:28 ◼   ► the iFixit Twitter account they tweeted "You might not be able to view our Galaxy Fold

00:10:31 ◼   ► teardown anymore but you can still watch us talk about it with Dieter Bohn on Repair Radio"

00:10:35 ◼   ► and it's like "Why are you owning this so much?" Like I don't get it! Like why are you

00:10:40 ◼   ► owning that?

00:10:41 ◼   ► It's really weird. It's really weird. And I mean, this is just like the perfect cherry

00:10:47 ◼   ► on top of the weirdness sundae that is the Galaxy Fold story. Like every single step

00:10:52 ◼   ► of this story has been so bizarre.

00:10:54 ◼   ► It's like a telenovela. It's unbelievable. This whole thing is so incredible to me. Like

00:10:59 ◼   ► at breakfast a couple of days ago, my wife Idina was like, I don't know how it came up,

00:11:04 ◼   ► but she was just like, "Oh, I saw about that phone. Are you still going to get it?" And

00:11:09 ◼   ► was like, as I said to Federico on the show last week, "yeah probably" because I can't

00:11:16 ◼   ► stop myself because like then MKBHD posted his review right? Yes. And like it's just

00:11:21 ◼   ► another example of the type of thing that I'm talking about where it's kind of like

00:11:24 ◼   ► everybody's being like "yeah I mean like it's really broken but like it's amazing

00:11:29 ◼   ► though" right and there's something about like the way that that he and others have

00:11:33 ◼   ► have spoken about it of like, this is the next big form factor. Like this has the opportunity,

00:11:39 ◼   ► this has the chance, right? Like that there is enough even in an early version to be like,

00:11:45 ◼   ► oh, this makes a lot of sense that it's probably, I mean, a lot of people are saying it's like,

00:11:49 ◼   ► oh, this is the next big form factor since the smartphone. I disagree with that. Like

00:11:53 ◼   ► my view on this is this is the biggest form factor change since the Galaxy Note, since

00:11:58 ◼   ► phones got big, right? Like that was a big change, right? So we had smartphones and they

00:12:02 ◼   ► were small, then they got big. And that changed a lot about how we use them, how we interact

00:12:07 ◼   ► with them, considerations that we need to make. Like it was a change. Because all this

00:12:10 ◼   ► is really is just two phones like stuck together. Like it's not a completely new device, but

00:12:15 ◼   ► like it feels like that is the biggest step since phones started getting large, since

00:12:20 ◼   ► the phablet became a thing.

00:12:22 ◼   ► Yeah, potentially. And I think in that MKBHD review, I've watched a lot of videos, so I

00:12:26 ◼   ► may be muddying the waters, but I think he talks a little bit about like, does this failure

00:12:31 ◼   ► of this phone does it like color this form factor forever? And I don't think it does.

00:12:36 ◼   ► I mean, if you look at early smartphones, a lot of them were just like really pretty bad. And the

00:12:41 ◼   ► iPhone was the first good one, but even the first iPhone really wasn't all that good. It is

00:12:46 ◼   ► thundering like crazy outside, by the way. So I apologize if it sounds like thunderstorms in your

00:12:50 ◼   ► podcast. That was serious. Yeah. As I, as I mentioned, the first iPhone wasn't very good.

00:12:55 ◼   ► Thunder rose behind me. So that's something to be concerned about.

00:12:59 ◼   ► - How dare you!

00:13:00 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:13:03 ◼   ► - I wonder.

00:13:03 ◼   ► So I think I agree with that.

00:13:06 ◼   ► I don't think that the failure of this Galaxy Fold

00:13:11 ◼   ► version one, I don't think it means this form factor is doomed

00:13:15 ◼   ► because I actually agree with you, Myke.

00:13:16 ◼   ► I don't know for sure if this is the next big thing.

00:13:18 ◼   ► It may or may not be,

00:13:20 ◼   ► but it sure seems like it has a chance

00:13:22 ◼   ► and I think that that is still true today

00:13:25 ◼   ► after all of the madness of the last week.

00:13:28 ◼   ► the current only current possibility, right?

00:13:31 ◼   ► Which was like why all these technology companies

00:13:34 ◼   ► started getting into VR and still are, right?

00:13:37 ◼   ► I can still put, because it's like, well,

00:13:38 ◼   ► this is a device that is the closest

00:13:41 ◼   ► to the future that we have.

00:13:42 ◼   ► So we'll just put a bunch of money into it

00:13:45 ◼   ► in the hopes that it will keep pushing forward.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And on that, there's this thing called the Oculus Quest,

00:13:51 ◼   ► which is coming out soon,

00:13:52 ◼   ► which is like it's completely untethered from a computer,

00:13:55 ◼   ► which is, that is very intriguing as a device.

00:13:58 ◼   ► And it runs full games.

00:14:00 ◼   ► It's not like the Google Cardboard or whatever,

00:14:02 ◼   ► like proper games.

00:14:04 ◼   ► - If you're Samsung, there is an added benefit

00:14:08 ◼   ► to this being the future because Samsung will supply

00:14:11 ◼   ► the screens for this thing, right?

00:14:13 ◼   ► - This is one of the reasons they need

00:14:14 ◼   ► to make this device work, because they need

00:14:16 ◼   ► to entice their partners, right?

00:14:18 ◼   ► Like that's what, there is so much writing on this for them,

00:14:21 ◼   ► which is why it's so very unfortunate

00:14:24 ◼   ► this one didn't even make it out of the door yet. I have faith in them though, I do, because

00:14:30 ◼   ► you know, they will be throwing everything they can at this to make this thing work.

00:14:37 ◼   ► I can't even imagine the amount of money they are losing, because they've made all these phones.

00:14:41 ◼   ► Now if they make a change that's big enough that they have to start again,

00:14:45 ◼   ► or they need to open them all and like do something to it, like that is so much money

00:14:51 ◼   ► that they are losing. But they got to do it. Yeah, it doesn't work now. So anyways, I feel

00:14:58 ◼   ► like that's enough about the Galaxy Fold. Rest in peace. Never enough. Never enough.

00:15:03 ◼   ► So do we think that we will see an updated Galaxy Fold or do we think Samsung sort of

00:15:11 ◼   ► buries this for a little while and then they name it something else and it looks different,

00:15:14 ◼   ► you know, six months from now? No, I think like Galaxy Fold's coming out. Like I think it's

00:15:19 ◼   ► it's happening within a few months time yeah it will happen. What I'm most

00:15:23 ◼   ► intrigued about right now though is what's gonna happen to Huawei's phone.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Ooh the Mate X. Yeah the Mate X yeah because the screen on the outside right

00:15:34 ◼   ► yeah yeah yeah seems bad idea. Seems like in hindsight now it seems like

00:15:40 ◼   ► potentially a risky proposition unless they're doing things significantly

00:15:44 ◼   ► different to Samsung. We spoke several weeks ago now about the power beats Pro, which are the

00:15:51 ◼   ► sort of workout design like clips over your ear wireless things from beats they're using the new

00:16:00 ◼   ► what's the new chip called the h1 chip? Yes, they have a hoy telephone they have seems like what's

00:16:08 ◼   ► what's gonna be pretty good battery life.

00:16:10 ◼   ► And these now have a ship date of May 10th,

00:16:13 ◼   ► they're 250 bucks.

00:16:15 ◼   ► So they are more than the AirPods,

00:16:17 ◼   ► but I think you get a very different experience

00:16:21 ◼   ► from the way these are designed

00:16:22 ◼   ► and the battery life increase and everything.

00:16:24 ◼   ► So it seems like people are like,

00:16:26 ◼   ► like just looking on Twitter and stuff,

00:16:27 ◼   ► people seem really excited about these headphones,

00:16:30 ◼   ► way more than I thought would be the case, honestly.

00:16:33 ◼   ► - I think that this is a much better product

00:16:37 ◼   ► if you have specific needs.

00:16:39 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

00:16:41 ◼   ► You know what I mean? Like this is

00:16:42 ◼   ► AirPods is so much more

00:16:44 ◼   ► general purpose.

00:16:47 ◼   ► And these power beats are like

00:16:49 ◼   ► if you love that technology but you

00:16:52 ◼   ► do heavy workouts, you can't

00:16:53 ◼   ► you might not be able to use AirPods

00:16:55 ◼   ► so you might not feel comfortable

00:16:56 ◼   ► using them right? Like you might

00:16:57 ◼   ► not feel they're protected enough

00:16:58 ◼   ► for you to like instead of knocking

00:17:00 ◼   ► them out.

00:17:01 ◼   ► And these you know they're water

00:17:04 ◼   ► resistant, sweat resistant.

00:17:05 ◼   ► I don't know how much AirPods are

00:17:07 ◼   ► that and they've got like the different ear tips and stuff like that so for people that

00:17:11 ◼   ► AirPods are not comfortable for. It is like AirPods Pro is like how I've been thinking

00:17:18 ◼   ► about it in my mind. It's like this is for a very specific type of user and so it's not

00:17:24 ◼   ► surprising to me that like the interest in them is not widespread but amongst the people

00:17:30 ◼   ► that care they really care because they really want it.

00:17:33 ◼   ► Yeah, Sylvia, she's been looking forward to the Powerbeats Pro.

00:17:39 ◼   ► She uses AirPods and she uses them a bunch.

00:17:42 ◼   ► Like when she's choreographing and she's testing a new choreography,

00:17:46 ◼   ► she puts AirPods on, but she doesn't love them because she says that they're not stable enough.

00:17:52 ◼   ► And I think it's because she's one of those people where the shape of the AirPods is not ideal for the shape of her ears.

00:18:01 ◼   ► And so she's been asking actually for the past couple of years, is Apple ever going

00:18:06 ◼   ► to make truly wireless the Powerbeats with the earhook design.

00:18:13 ◼   ► And we're going to get a pair of these as soon as they're available.

00:18:18 ◼   ► And also the fact that they have customizable ear tips, that's also a big win because,

00:18:23 ◼   ► you know, if the design of your ear, if the shape of your ear does not match the ideal

00:18:30 ◼   ► vision of Johnny I've designed earbuds well you're out of luck don't you

00:18:37 ◼   ► remember the ears the ears presentation yes remember that when when like they

00:18:42 ◼   ► went to ear pods right there were ear pods for a while just like lots of

00:18:45 ◼   ► people's pictures of ears that was yes I'll put a link in the show notes to

00:18:49 ◼   ► that video I absolutely love my new air pods I really do I've fallen in love

00:18:55 ◼   ► this product all over again. They're amazing. They're so good. So good. Like it's, it's the

00:19:02 ◼   ► battery life is so much better. I actually really enjoy Siri. It's very useful to me.

00:19:08 ◼   ► And I'm wearing them. I mean, part of it is because I'm wearing them a bunch more.

00:19:12 ◼   ► Because now Adina is at home more. We're both wanting to listen to things. So we both use our

00:19:18 ◼   ► AirPods. But still she still does it. Like they're just all over the house, just outside of the case.

00:19:24 ◼   ► I can't fathom how you could live that way.

00:19:29 ◼   ► This cannot go on for any longer, Myke.

00:19:31 ◼   ► You gotta find a solution to this problem.

00:19:33 ◼   ► I've told her, I've publicly shamed her about it, like in everything, but she just doesn't

00:19:37 ◼   ► care.

00:19:38 ◼   ► She just puts them wherever she wants.

00:19:39 ◼   ► It's maddening to me.

00:19:40 ◼   ► I just don't see the benefit.

00:19:42 ◼   ► Like I don't see how you could just take them out and just leave them on the kitchen counter.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Like I don't get it.

00:19:48 ◼   ► I don't understand how they work.

00:19:51 ◼   ► It's very concerning.

00:19:52 ◼   ► We have a lot more to talk about.

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00:22:10 ◼   ► name.

00:22:11 ◼   ► My thanks to hover for their support of this show.

00:22:13 ◼   ► And relay FM.

00:22:14 ◼   ► I wanted to provide an official update on things I've been up to and I think Myke knows

00:22:22 ◼   ► sort of what I've been working on. As usual I've been sending him little previews and

00:22:28 ◼   ► snippets.

00:22:29 ◼   ► Yes and no actually. You've been sending me some stuff, more graphical stuff, like images.

00:22:35 ◼   ► I have absolutely no idea what this article is that you're working on. I have no idea

00:22:39 ◼   ► what it is.

00:22:40 ◼   ► I feel really left out.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Well you've been busy excavating things in your backyards.

00:22:45 ◼   ► That's true.

00:22:46 ◼   ► No, everyone's been too scared to talk to you.

00:22:49 ◼   ► Didn't want to, you know, bother you.

00:22:53 ◼   ► So I've been working on this major story that I would like to have on the website before

00:23:01 ◼   ► WWDC.

00:23:02 ◼   ► It's like a very big, in-depth story.

00:23:08 ◼   ► So I kind of don't want to spoil the topic, but let's just say that it's about the iPad.

00:23:14 ◼   ► Weird.

00:23:15 ◼   ► And yeah, I know, but it's like, to give you some context, this has been like an iOS review

00:23:21 ◼   ► like effort.

00:23:23 ◼   ► So the type of depth and the type of like, I have a mind map and I have multiple chapters

00:23:29 ◼   ► and multiple sections and I'm working on really nice looking assets for the story.

00:23:36 ◼   ► So it's the whole deal, right?

00:23:37 ◼   ► There's going to be extras for club members. There's gonna be an e-book version and I love that stuff

00:23:43 ◼   ► So the the idea would be that this should come out before

00:23:49 ◼   ► WWDC

00:23:52 ◼   ► Just as a

00:23:53 ◼   ► Sort of as a final update before things change

00:23:57 ◼   ► So that would be my idea to kind of talk about the iPad from a very specific and personal angle before

00:24:03 ◼   ► The reason that I bring it up in the show is not just to build hype, because that's

00:24:10 ◼   ► what I do, but also, I mean, come on, you gotta...

00:24:15 ◼   ► You're a hype man.

00:24:17 ◼   ► Federico is the hype man.

00:24:18 ◼   ► There should be a poster for that.

00:24:20 ◼   ► No, but I kind of wanted to put out a call and I wanted to ask listeners if there's any

00:24:29 ◼   ► particular aspect of my iPad workflow.

00:24:33 ◼   ► So the ways that I work on the iPad.

00:24:36 ◼   ► If you have any particular question

00:24:39 ◼   ► that you would like to see,

00:24:41 ◼   ► and I know this sounds super generic and vague,

00:24:45 ◼   ► but bear with me.

00:24:46 ◼   ► If there's anything particular about the way

00:24:48 ◼   ► that I work on the iPad that you would like

00:24:50 ◼   ► to know more about, send me a question on Twitter,

00:24:53 ◼   ► send me an email, whatever.

00:24:54 ◼   ► I just wanna make sure that I can cover

00:24:57 ◼   ► all the possible grounds that I can with this story.

00:25:00 ◼   ► In the, of course, in the limits of the scope of the story,

00:25:04 ◼   ► which is a pretty large scope, I will admit,

00:25:06 ◼   ► but there's still going to be not too many chapters,

00:25:10 ◼   ► but it's pretty broad topic.

00:25:12 ◼   ► So-- - So I'm guessing

00:25:14 ◼   ► it's like a drawing the line in the sand,

00:25:18 ◼   ► this is where the iPad is before.

00:25:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, kinda, yeah, kinda, yeah.

00:25:23 ◼   ► But sort of from my perspective then,

00:25:26 ◼   ► So going back through all the changes that I've been through over the past few years

00:25:32 ◼   ► that I've been using the iPad and from that perspective of trying to evaluate how things

00:25:41 ◼   ► changed and how they're better now in some ways or they're maybe worse in other ways

00:25:46 ◼   ► and how they could get better at WWDC.

00:25:51 ◼   ► And so it's not just a summary of the ways that I work,

00:25:56 ◼   ► but also I bring forth some problems and some ideas

00:26:03 ◼   ► for how things could get better,

00:26:05 ◼   ► but it's not in the style of the wish lists

00:26:09 ◼   ► that I used to do.

00:26:10 ◼   ► So it's not in that style, but it's got some wishes

00:26:13 ◼   ► and it's something pretty unique.

00:26:14 ◼   ► It's somewhere in the middle of an iOS review

00:26:17 ◼   ► and more of a here's how I work type of story.

00:26:22 ◼   ► And it's been really fun putting this together

00:26:24 ◼   ► and it's actually been easier for me

00:26:27 ◼   ► to write about this stuff than it is to write an iOS review.

00:26:30 ◼   ► Even though the scope again is really similar,

00:26:33 ◼   ► not the scope but maybe the length

00:26:35 ◼   ► and the depth of the story is similar,

00:26:37 ◼   ► but it's been so much easier in terms of like,

00:26:39 ◼   ► you know, I have a chapter that is about 15,000 words

00:26:44 ◼   ► and that took me like three days to finish.

00:26:47 ◼   ► It's like that can never happen for an IUS review.

00:26:50 ◼   ► Is that because you don't have to research?

00:26:53 ◼   ► It's just coming from your mind.

00:26:55 ◼   ► It's just coming.

00:26:57 ◼   ► Well, I had to outline and to, you know, to sketch out a mind map.

00:27:01 ◼   ► Well, yeah, but I mean, like, you're not having to like do a bunch of work.

00:27:05 ◼   ► And like, here's a I have to understand how this works and watch this video

00:27:09 ◼   ► and read this documentation to make sure I got all the points correctly,

00:27:11 ◼   ► because it's just your opinions and your usage as opposed to like,

00:27:16 ◼   ► Let me tell you about how messages in the cloud is going to work or whatever.

00:27:22 ◼   ► No, really, that's exactly right.

00:27:24 ◼   ► And also, if anything, I think the biggest problem has not been research, but just memory.

00:27:30 ◼   ► Just remembering things that I actually wrote about years ago that I had completely forgotten about.

00:27:36 ◼   ► And so, more than once, I came across when adding links to a section that I'm editing,

00:27:44 ◼   ► and I'm googling around, searching for old articles about a specific iPad feature or

00:27:49 ◼   ► app, and I come across one of my stories. And I'm like, "Oh, well, I guess I've

00:27:54 ◼   ► read about this already years ago." So…

00:27:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I can imagine that that happens to Steven a lot.

00:28:00 ◼   ► You know, sometimes you just need to learn about the different versions of iSync, and

00:28:05 ◼   ► past Steven had you covered.

00:28:09 ◼   ► Yeah, so that's basically what I'm doing now, if I'm a bit less active on Twitter,

00:28:18 ◼   ► maybe for at least another week to ten days, because I think I'm about, like I'm approaching

00:28:25 ◼   ► writing the last chapter, so that's a good sign. So I would say I'm about 60 to 70%

00:28:34 ◼   ► done, maybe, which is good. But again, it's a much faster process than doing the iOS review,

00:28:40 ◼   ► even though, again, there will be all of the things that you're used to seeing when I do

00:28:44 ◼   ► one of these stories. So the extras and talking about it on the podcast and the ebook version

00:28:51 ◼   ► and tons of screenshots and all of that.

00:28:53 ◼   ► If you want to talk about it on the show, you're going to have to do your usual thing.

00:28:56 ◼   ► I'm going to need it very early so I can very slowly read through it as I want to do.

00:29:03 ◼   ► Yes, we will do that. You will get an advanced press copy.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Advanced screening. You gotta like put my name all over it in case it slips out.

00:29:11 ◼   ► Like a watermark. My curly.

00:29:14 ◼   ► It shows up on iFixit, you know who did it.

00:29:15 ◼   ► So yeah, that's basically what I've been doing for the past couple of months. Quietly behind

00:29:24 ◼   ► the scenes. And just writing for the past three weeks, almost a month. Yeah.

00:29:31 ◼   ► That's great. I'm excited to see this because you have put so much stuff out there, but I think it's

00:29:37 ◼   ► been a long time since you've done like an end-to-end really inclusive look at like where

00:29:43 ◼   ► things are in your sort of setup and workflow and if that's what this is then I'm definitely excited

00:29:48 ◼   ► to read it. Yeah, yeah that's what it is. Yeah I always learn something from stuff like that.

00:29:54 ◼   ► I hope you will. It means I've done something right. So yeah, getting there and it will be fun

00:30:02 ◼   ► to talk about in the context of some of the ways that I work on the iPad these days and sort of

00:30:09 ◼   ► some of the tools that I've even commissioned two people to build for me specifically. Like

00:30:18 ◼   ► you'll see it's gonna be fun to cover yeah it is the year 2019 that means we have to talk about

00:30:25 ◼   ► aperture apparently apparently so can you know what actually before we get into this can you give

00:30:32 ◼   ► us a little history lesson well there's a there's an article over at maxstories.net that i wrote

00:30:38 ◼   ► last year about the history of aperture you can go read this is one of those things like i google it

00:30:44 ◼   ► I did this! How useful! Yeah, way to go, past Steven. So if we wind the clock back to, I don't

00:30:50 ◼   ► know, 2005, you had like iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and then Apple was making like pro versions of

00:30:59 ◼   ► all those. So you had iMovie, but then you also had something like Final Cut, which, you know,

00:31:04 ◼   ► so came along. So did the consumer version of these products all come before the pro versions?

00:31:10 ◼   ► I plead the fifth.

00:31:12 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:31:13 ◼   ► - I'm not.

00:31:13 ◼   ► - Did they ever make a pro version of iDVD?

00:31:15 ◼   ► That's basically what I'm asking.

00:31:15 ◼   ► - Yes, there was a tool.

00:31:18 ◼   ► Joe Steele, if he's around, will know.

00:31:20 ◼   ► - What does that mean, what you just said?

00:31:23 ◼   ► - Do you know what iDVD is?

00:31:24 ◼   ► - No, no, you plead, no, you plead something.

00:31:28 ◼   ► - Oh, plead the fifth.

00:31:30 ◼   ► It means that I'm not sure of the answer

00:31:31 ◼   ► and I don't want to incriminate myself.

00:31:33 ◼   ► - It's like an American legal system thing.

00:31:35 ◼   ► - It's an American thing.

00:31:36 ◼   ► - All right.

00:31:37 ◼   ► - There was, there was DVD studio pro, Myke.

00:31:40 ◼   ► Pro DbD authoring from Apple.

00:31:42 ◼   ► That's wild. I was just I was making a dumb joke, but I've never seen that application run

00:31:49 ◼   ► Okay, you know your garage band and logic even the Apple bot logic later on like there was this idea of you have consumer versions

00:31:57 ◼   ► and then you have pro versions of these like creative Mac apps and aperture was sort of the

00:32:04 ◼   ► the pro version of iPhoto. It came out in 2005 and then Apple like aperture's

00:32:09 ◼   ► history. Like you really should go read this article.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Apertures history is very rough.

00:32:14 ◼   ► Like there were rumors basically just all the time that it was canceled.

00:32:18 ◼   ► There was a story in 2006 that Apple had disbanded the entire team.

00:32:22 ◼   ► I remember that. I remember as reported by think secret.

00:32:27 ◼   ► This is the era that we're in.

00:32:31 ◼   ► Not and well. No. Was that the one that Apple sued into oblivion? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Why did they do that?

00:32:38 ◼   ► They they there was a story about some I think

00:32:41 ◼   ► about unreleased hardware

00:32:44 ◼   ► Something and anyways, well, that's the hardware that they like that wasn't some real

00:32:49 ◼   ► Potentially potentially it wasn't real. It's that is up to debate. I should write about that

00:32:55 ◼   ► I'm putting that on my list. You should write about that. What happened to think secret? Mm-hmm

00:32:59 ◼   ► I'm gonna what are you can literally hear Stephen writing this idea down?

00:33:04 ◼   ► But aperture 2 did eventually show up and it got better over time and

00:33:16 ◼   ► then it

00:33:18 ◼   ► Aperture 3 was the final version and over time they sort of brought I photo and aperture together

00:33:24 ◼   ► So eventually they could use the same photo library so you could open your library

00:33:29 ◼   ► Either in iPhoto or Aperture it got things like faces and places, you know, features were used to today

00:33:34 ◼   ► Kind of made the way into Aperture over time, but then Aperture was sort of put out to pasture in

00:33:40 ◼   ► 2014 was the final version that shipped version 3.6 and

00:33:47 ◼   ► It that when when the photos app showed up Apple sort of replaced iPhoto and Aperture

00:33:54 ◼   ► at once. Now lots of people weren't happy with that because photos even to this day doesn't do some of the really

00:33:59 ◼   ► like

00:34:01 ◼   ► Aperture had a lot of really good tools for managing large numbers of photos. Like if you were a professional photographer

00:34:06 ◼   ► You could shoot tethered into aperture or you could import hundreds of images and there were lots of good organizational tools

00:34:12 ◼   ► Like what we see in Lightroom now people basically move from Aperture to Lightroom if they needed that. The replacement of

00:34:18 ◼   ► Aperture with photos was not like Final Cut. Mm-hmm, right? Where Final Cut was like

00:34:24 ◼   ► alright it wasn't as great but then over time it became I mean I don't know if

00:34:30 ◼   ► it's exactly it right but like it seems like most I don't hear people complaining

00:34:34 ◼   ► about it as much anymore yeah it adopted all that pro stuff released a lot of it

00:34:38 ◼   ► photos just hasn't you can do real working photos that's what you're gonna

00:34:42 ◼   ► think that's what some people are saying it seems like Apple were happier to

00:34:47 ◼   ► abandon aperture than they were Final Cut or whatever right yeah it seems like

00:34:51 ◼   ► Well, you got to think that final cut was just much larger install base than aperture ever was. Yeah, because it was aperture actually good

00:34:59 ◼   ► So here's the thing

00:35:01 ◼   ► Okay, so let's do the nose first now

00:35:03 ◼   ► I'm gonna come back to that question because there's something I want to say about that

00:35:06 ◼   ► All right

00:35:07 ◼   ► The news is that Macrumor spotted a knowledge base article that says hey if you're still running aperture

00:35:14 ◼   ► for some reason it's not going to work after Mojave and

00:35:18 ◼   ► And the assumption is this is due to the 64-bit transition that Aputure won't run after Mojave.

00:35:25 ◼   ► So that's the news.

00:35:27 ◼   ► That's why we're talking about this.

00:35:28 ◼   ► It's not just that I am in some sort of fever dream about an old software program.

00:35:33 ◼   ► It's going to die.

00:35:34 ◼   ► And the response to this has been vastly more interesting than I anticipated.

00:35:40 ◼   ► When I read this article, I was like, "Huh, Aputure is still right on Mojave?"

00:35:46 ◼   ► I kind of assumed it died off years ago, but it was still hanging on somehow.

00:35:50 ◼   ► And, uh, uh, people online seems to at least some people still are, we're

00:35:56 ◼   ► using it and I think it's for those features that photos never got.

00:36:00 ◼   ► And maybe they didn't want to move to Lightroom or from what email I got.

00:36:04 ◼   ► Someone didn't want to move to Lightroom because they don't want the

00:36:06 ◼   ► subscription that comes with that.

00:36:07 ◼   ► Right.

00:36:07 ◼   ► Cause it's part of the Adobe creative cloud.

00:36:09 ◼   ► And I, I think that that's all really interesting a, that it was still around,

00:36:14 ◼   ► But people were like, oh yeah, like aperture was like the last great Mac app.

00:36:17 ◼   ► Apple wrote, it's like, you didn't use aperture versions one or two.

00:36:21 ◼   ► They were really bad.

00:36:22 ◼   ► Like aperture in the beginning was a dog and all, but the most powerful

00:36:27 ◼   ► desktop max, it eventually got to a point where you could run it on a laptop,

00:36:31 ◼   ► but that was not true.

00:36:32 ◼   ► In the beginning, the specs said it would run and I ran all three versions.

00:36:36 ◼   ► I used aperture for years, but it was so slow and so heavy, especially

00:36:41 ◼   ► like in the pre Intel days, it was just,

00:36:44 ◼   ► It really was a bit of a mess of an app for a long time.

00:36:48 ◼   ► And it was a great icon and a pretty good user interface for the time.

00:36:54 ◼   ► But I think that holding it up on this pedestal of like a great example of a

00:36:58 ◼   ► fallen Mac app, like, I just don't know if it deserves to be in that hall of fame.

00:37:02 ◼   ► You know, it was good at the end, but it took a long time to get there.

00:37:05 ◼   ► Is there a hall of fame for those apps?

00:37:08 ◼   ► Well, I mean, just, uh, I mean, there's one in my office.

00:37:11 ◼   ► It's like a marble shelf and to have carved out of granite

00:37:18 ◼   ► the icons of a couple of apps.

00:37:19 ◼   ► No, but seriously, what are some of the good old fallen Mac apps?

00:37:24 ◼   ► That's a good question.

00:37:27 ◼   ► DVD Studio Pro?

00:37:28 ◼   ► DVD Studio Pro, clearly, that we forgot existed.

00:37:32 ◼   ► I mean, I think you could put the pre-gutted version of Final Cut.

00:37:37 ◼   ► You could put iMovie HD in there.

00:37:40 ◼   ► I think really you could put like a sort of midway through its life version of

00:37:44 ◼   ► iPhoto in there. You know, iPhoto was incredible and then they got really

00:37:48 ◼   ► bloated and slow.

00:37:49 ◼   ► When it was like the scrolling was the thing.

00:37:52 ◼   ► God, it was so good.

00:37:54 ◼   ► Like we could just...

00:37:55 ◼   ► What's with the scrolling?

00:37:56 ◼   ► Well, that's where scrolls like butter comes from, right?

00:37:58 ◼   ► iPhoto, that's where that phrase comes from.

00:38:01 ◼   ► Like because you could scroll the library, right?

00:38:03 ◼   ► Like you could just like scroll through your library and it would run really

00:38:06 ◼   ► smoothly.

00:38:07 ◼   ► faster than like a finder window with all those photos in it.

00:38:10 ◼   ► It was it was really a very, very, very impressive thing.

00:38:13 ◼   ► And they did the way you would be able to like

00:38:16 ◼   ► run your mouse over the like the collection

00:38:19 ◼   ► and you would be able to like scan through all the images. Right.

00:38:21 ◼   ► They would like change the cover image in front of me.

00:38:24 ◼   ► I thought it was an incredible application.

00:38:26 ◼   ► It was.

00:38:27 ◼   ► The iPhoto was the result of like the first.

00:38:31 ◼   ► Do you remember the first scoop that me and you ever got?

00:38:33 ◼   ► Do you remember that?

00:38:34 ◼   ► I do.

00:38:35 ◼   ► There was, I'm going to see if I can find this.

00:38:37 ◼   ► So it was, they used to have like, you could geolocate, you could have like geolocation

00:38:42 ◼   ► for the, for your images, right?

00:38:45 ◼   ► And I noticed one day that the map looked weird.

00:38:49 ◼   ► Like it didn't look like Google Maps when I was looking at like my home or whatever.

00:38:55 ◼   ► And it turned out to be, what was it like open map or something?

00:38:59 ◼   ► Open street map.

00:39:00 ◼   ► Yep.

00:39:01 ◼   ► And because this was before open street map.

00:39:04 ◼   ► was before, actually not that long before, I think, Apple abandoned Google Maps. But

00:39:10 ◼   ► it was like well known at that point that there you go, it was well known at that point

00:39:15 ◼   ► that it was going to happen. I like, I really enjoy Steven's updates on this post, which

00:39:19 ◼   ► is just listing all of the cool places that it got shared. The Next Web, The Verge, Daring

00:39:25 ◼   ► Fireball, and then Open Street Map themselves. I got my fire though, in the mountain got

00:39:31 ◼   ► on my fire. You just get all the people who link to you at the bottom of the page.

00:39:36 ◼   ► Hey, you know what? 2012 is a different time in blogging.

00:39:41 ◼   ► But yeah, that was fun, right? That was one of the great things of iPhoto. And the reason

00:39:46 ◼   ► I noticed this is because I used to meticulously categorize my photos.

00:39:52 ◼   ► Yeah, same.

00:39:53 ◼   ► I actually was looking for some images the other day, and on an external hard drive I

00:39:58 ◼   ► I have a backup of my iPhoto library.

00:40:01 ◼   ► And it's like a bunch of images or whatever.

00:40:03 ◼   ► And I have all of the stuff that is important to me,

00:40:05 ◼   ► but it was something that I was looking for.

00:40:07 ◼   ► And I pulled out this drive and I ended up opening iPhoto on my iMac,

00:40:11 ◼   ► which was not a thing I thought I could do anymore.

00:40:13 ◼   ► Turns out you can still do that.

00:40:16 ◼   ► So this is why iPhoto is in my mind so much,

00:40:18 ◼   ► because I was just in iPhoto like three or four days ago,

00:40:21 ◼   ► which was a fun experience for me.

00:40:24 ◼   ► And I because it was I went to the faces and everybody's names

00:40:27 ◼   ► listed there. If you were in a picture of mine and I knew who you were, I created like a face

00:40:33 ◼   ► like for you right and named it and everything. But I don't do, I have like 12 people on my

00:40:38 ◼   ► photos that might, the current version of photos for all of that information. So like I don't,

00:40:44 ◼   ► I just don't really, I don't really go for the categorization anymore, but I used to,

00:40:48 ◼   ► used to be big on it. Ah photos.

00:40:51 ◼   ► Yeah, aperture. Totes dead.

00:40:54 ◼   ► Yeah. So can somebody tell me, because Apple is saying, oh, move it to photos, the app or Lightroom

00:41:00 ◼   ► Classic, what is Lightroom Classic? Does anybody know what that is? It is the version of Lightroom

00:41:06 ◼   ► that was the current version until maybe like a year ago. And it has a lot of those like big

00:41:11 ◼   ► library import type tools. Lightroom, I think they're calling it Lightroom CC or Lightroom

00:41:17 ◼   ► cloud. I don't have either installed. So forgive me if the name is not quite right. It is more

00:41:23 ◼   ► a more, I think, kind of more like Photos where it wants to sync all of your images

00:41:28 ◼   ► to a cloud service and I think it lacks some of the features that the old Lightroom did.

00:41:34 ◼   ► I think if you were really dependent on workflows in Aperture, the classic Lightroom is probably

00:41:40 ◼   ► a better fit.

00:41:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:41:42 ◼   ► But just move it to Photos.

00:41:44 ◼   ► Photos is fine.

00:41:46 ◼   ► I want to know if literally any of our users is still using Aperture.

00:41:50 ◼   ► I just want to know.

00:41:51 ◼   ► Send a tweet to iMyke.

00:41:53 ◼   ► I M Y K. Yeah. Yeah. And I will follow up with a detailed list on next week's episode

00:41:58 ◼   ► if required.

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00:44:00 ◼   ► - All right, so should we talk about

00:44:03 ◼   ► Steven's app influenza status?

00:44:07 ◼   ► - You're an app director, maybe.

00:44:09 ◼   ► You could be one of those.

00:44:11 ◼   ► - Is that still a job?

00:44:12 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a thing again in 2019.

00:44:15 ◼   ► No, I'm kidding.

00:44:17 ◼   ► You should totally go with AppFluencer.

00:44:19 ◼   ► It's better.

00:44:20 ◼   ► What is happening in this segment?

00:44:22 ◼   ► OK.

00:44:22 ◼   ► So Myke, tell us what's going on with Overcast.

00:44:25 ◼   ► So there's been-- last week, I think, over the weekend,

00:44:29 ◼   ► Marco put out an update to Overcast,

00:44:31 ◼   ► which included the ability to share audio clips.

00:44:34 ◼   ► So you will now be able to, at any point in a show,

00:44:37 ◼   ► you can press the Share button, and you can create a clip

00:44:39 ◼   ► inside of Overcast, the podcast playing application,

00:44:42 ◼   ► which I'm assuming most of our listeners probably use or know about.

00:44:46 ◼   ► Actually, I know that most of our listeners use and know about.

00:44:50 ◼   ► I actually know this information.

00:44:52 ◼   ► So then it opens up a new UI in the application that lets you create an audio or video clip

00:44:56 ◼   ► that you can then share on social media stuff, which solves a problem of the shareability

00:45:04 ◼   ► and virality of podcasting in general, which is a thing that Steven was talking about in

00:45:09 ◼   ► a podcast interview that ended up influencing this feature to be made by Marco for this

00:45:14 ◼   ► current version of Overcast.

00:45:16 ◼   ► Podfluencing I think is the word you're looking for.

00:45:19 ◼   ► That was it, yeah that was definitely what I was looking for.

00:45:22 ◼   ► Yeah because it is such an interesting problem, with text you can just block quote something,

00:45:27 ◼   ► with video say it's on YouTube you can very easily make a URL that jumps right to that

00:45:33 ◼   ► time marker, but with audio, because it's with podcasting in particular, it's so distributed,

00:45:39 ◼   ► which is the way that open podcasting should be. This is a good thing for for the community

00:45:45 ◼   ► of podcasts. But the downside is there's not a great way to share something overcast had

00:45:49 ◼   ► time because links but you can do that. But then if you don't listen to podcasts in overcast,

00:45:56 ◼   ► you can't do anything with it right. Like you're saying that with YouTube, you can do

00:45:59 ◼   ► this, but you only can watch YouTube videos on YouTube.

00:46:02 ◼   ► You don't have a choice, right?

00:46:04 ◼   ► So like if you are a cash flow user and someone shares an overcast link,

00:46:08 ◼   ► it's like, great, I can listen to these 20 seconds of this show

00:46:10 ◼   ► randomly in the middle, but I can't do anything else of it that is easy.

00:46:15 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:46:16 ◼   ► And we even to pull the curtain back a little bit, like the web player

00:46:20 ◼   ► on the relay site actually has a feature where we could send out a link

00:46:24 ◼   ► with a timestamp, but even then people want to listen in their

00:46:29 ◼   ► podcasts client or ideally just wherever they are already. So if you're on Twitter and someone

00:46:35 ◼   ► shares something or you're in Instagram stories or you're on MySpace, wherever you are,

00:46:39 ◼   ► you just want to see it there. And that's what Marco's feature seems to solve.

00:46:44 ◼   ► Yeah, because then it's also more fun, I think, to have a little video clip to share than it is

00:46:49 ◼   ► like, "Yes, this URL," right? Like it's just not as fun. Like it's a different kind of thing.

00:46:57 ◼   ► I'll tell you as well, the official Twitter app is the best place to watch these clips

00:47:02 ◼   ► because you can open up the video and you can minimize the video and just keep scrolling

00:47:06 ◼   ► and you can drag the video around like its own picture in picture.

00:47:10 ◼   ► Speaking of which, just a quick aside, I've been using the Twitter app for like two months,

00:47:17 ◼   ► three months at this point. Totally fine.

00:47:19 ◼   ► Well you're using a beta version, right? You're not using the official one?

00:47:23 ◼   ► Not anymore. Not anymore. I have the normal version now.

00:47:26 ◼   ► Can you say you're using it? What does that mean?

00:47:30 ◼   ► I don't have Tweetbot or Twitterific or any other third-party client on my devices anymore.

00:47:34 ◼   ► Okay. Whoa. Okay. So I'm intrigued about this because we're going back to this again, but

00:47:37 ◼   ► from a very different place to the last time we had this conversation.

00:47:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:47:42 ◼   ► How do you deal with stuff like timeline syncing? Or do you just not care anymore?

00:47:45 ◼   ► I don't anymore. I just gave up.

00:47:48 ◼   ► What does that mean for you, though? Like, are you just not bothering to look at as much

00:47:52 ◼   ► stuff?

00:47:53 ◼   ► things. Actually three things. So there's three options. Either I open Twitter again

00:48:03 ◼   ► and it's kept in memory the last place where I was in my timeline, and the iOS app has

00:48:10 ◼   ► actually gotten better at restoring your previous spot in the timeline. So if it works, then

00:48:16 ◼   ► great. Option two. There's too many tweets or the app has not kept my place in the timeline.

00:48:28 ◼   ► So because there's a chronological option now, which I think was the impetus that sort

00:48:33 ◼   ► of pushed me to try the Twitter app again and eventually stick into it. So if the timeline

00:48:40 ◼   ► restoration didn't work, I just scroll to the top and read my timeline backwards.

00:48:45 ◼   ► So I start from the latest tweets.

00:48:48 ◼   ► That's like super old school.

00:48:50 ◼   ► Like I remember doing that back in the day with like Twitterific and Tweetie or

00:48:54 ◼   ► whatever, when they wouldn't save where you were and you just keep going back

00:48:57 ◼   ► until you recognize something.

00:48:59 ◼   ► Yeah. And that, like for years I thought, oh, I will never be able to do that

00:49:04 ◼   ► again. But then I realized, you know, if I don't want to spend as much time on

00:49:09 ◼   ► Twitter as I used to, scrolling all the way to the top and then going backwards

00:49:12 ◼   ► is a pretty good method of you can see the latest stuff so you can see the

00:49:17 ◼   ► latest things that people are talking about and if you want you can also reply

00:49:23 ◼   ► to people but I think it's better if you're replying to a tweet that was sent

00:49:27 ◼   ► one hour ago instead of 19 hours. I guess one of the things that's better now than

00:49:32 ◼   ► it used to be is like if somebody's having a conversation or whatever you

00:49:37 ◼   ► You don't see it in reverse because Twitter brings it all up together, right?

00:49:40 ◼   ► Yes, and that's actually great because it's a great way to see conversations that started

00:49:45 ◼   ► like many, many hours ago, but now you can see the fresh context, like the latest replies

00:49:51 ◼   ► to a conversation, which works really well for me.

00:49:54 ◼   ► So this change of behavior, scrolling backwards from top to bottom, I thought I would never

00:50:00 ◼   ► be able to do that myself, but it's actually been working fine.

00:50:04 ◼   ► The third option, which is the more nuclear one, that I also thought, well, I will never

00:50:10 ◼   ► do this because I'm not that kind of person, but it turns out that I am, is I switch from

00:50:17 ◼   ► latest to home.

00:50:19 ◼   ► So instead of chronological timeline to the algorithmic timeline.

00:50:23 ◼   ► I maintain that Twitter's algorithm is good enough that they are always right.

00:50:29 ◼   ► I always want to see what they put at the top.

00:50:31 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:50:32 ◼   ► If I'm super behind on Twitter, like for example this past week where I've been writing for

00:50:38 ◼   ► like seven hours a day and I just, I don't open Twitter because I gotta be concentrated

00:50:43 ◼   ► on writing, I open Twitter, switch from latest to home, and sure enough I've seen interesting

00:50:51 ◼   ► things that belong to my kind of sphere of interests.

00:50:57 ◼   ► Like you know...

00:50:58 ◼   ► I do wish that that toggle was an actual toggle though.

00:51:00 ◼   ► Yeah, it's kind of clunky to switch.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Because it just changes. Just like randomly, on its own, it decided it wanted to change

00:51:08 ◼   ► me to be home now rather than... you know what I mean?

00:51:12 ◼   ► Mine now is sticking to latest because I think it learns from your habits after a while.

00:51:17 ◼   ► Now mine is always latest by default. But yeah, the home timeline, the algorithmic one...

00:51:25 ◼   ► I sense a challenge here. I think I'm going to give it a go.

00:51:29 ◼   ► And also, like, I wrote about this years ago, and I think it's still true. Once you get...

00:51:36 ◼   ► So if the Twitter app works for you, if you get used to the features of the official client,

00:51:42 ◼   ► it's gonna be real hard to go back to third-party clients. And I love third-party clients, right?

00:51:47 ◼   ► But the conversation view, the notifications for all kinds of things you want to see, the

00:51:53 ◼   ► complete search that allows you to search for tweets that go back like years ago.

00:51:58 ◼   ► And stuff like polls. Polls and the excellent image support, GIFs and videos, you know,

00:52:06 ◼   ► all this kind of stuff that is native to Twitter. I gave up on trying to use the third-party

00:52:14 ◼   ► clients months ago and the chronological timeline makes it work for me. Sure, the iPad app is

00:52:21 ◼   ► not great, but also, you know, I want to spend less time, especially on the iPad.

00:52:27 ◼   ► A lot of the things that made third-party apps good, they lost their advantage when

00:52:32 ◼   ► the API stuff changed. Like, the multi-column views and stuff are just less useful when

00:52:38 ◼   ► the notification streaming API went away. Right, like we spoke about that at the time.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I used Tweetbot in one column view on the iPad.

00:52:46 ◼   ► And so using the timeline this way and my method that I actually wrote about on MacStories

00:52:55 ◼   ► to see a unified view for mentions and quote tweets and people who use my name in a single

00:53:05 ◼   ► like a saved search.

00:53:07 ◼   ► I wrote about it on MacStories a couple of months ago.

00:53:10 ◼   ► That works totally fine.

00:53:11 ◼   ► so I can have a unified mentions view like in Tweetbot, which is great.

00:53:17 ◼   ► So yeah, this was just an aside to say that yes, I agree with you, the overcast video

00:53:23 ◼   ► clips are perfect for Twitter.

00:53:25 ◼   ► I am gonna take the Federico challenge that you didn't give me.

00:53:33 ◼   ► And I've moved Twitter to my dock on my iPhone and I'll do the same on my iPad and I'll try

00:53:39 ◼   ► it over the next week and we'll report back on next week's episode. Stephen are you willing

00:53:43 ◼   ► to take this challenge? He's not on Twitter, why would he take it? He's sometimes on it.

00:53:48 ◼   ► Would I take your silence as a no on that one? Raid your silence. I'll do it. I'm not

00:53:52 ◼   ► on Twitter much but I'll do it. Yeah but like you could try it for a day and bail but like

00:53:57 ◼   ► then you can at least say why it didn't work for you. But then you would win and you get

00:54:00 ◼   ► smug when you win so. There's no winning! There's no winning state about this. Can we

00:54:05 ◼   ► - Can we bet on it?

00:54:06 ◼   ► - Why?

00:54:07 ◼   ► - What are we betting?

00:54:08 ◼   ► What is everything?

00:54:09 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:54:10 ◼   ► What is the bet?

00:54:11 ◼   ► What's the bet?

00:54:11 ◼   ► - Who wants to score everything we do?

00:54:13 ◼   ► - I know.

00:54:14 ◼   ► - Okay, back to overcast.

00:54:16 ◼   ► There is a little bit of a issue.

00:54:19 ◼   ► So you go in, you create your clip,

00:54:22 ◼   ► you have a lot of options.

00:54:23 ◼   ► You want vertical video, horizontal, square,

00:54:25 ◼   ► so you can think about where you're gonna share it.

00:54:27 ◼   ► You can kinda make some adjustments on some badging on it.

00:54:32 ◼   ► But then if you say that you wanna share the video

00:54:34 ◼   ► and the link, that's kind of a two-step process

00:54:37 ◼   ► because of some limitations in the share sheet.

00:54:42 ◼   ► But Federico, you think there may be a workaround

00:54:45 ◼   ► or is there a better way to do this?

00:54:47 ◼   ► - It's not Marco's fault.

00:54:48 ◼   ► So to give you the conclusion upfront,

00:54:53 ◼   ► Marco wanted to share multiple items.

00:54:58 ◼   ► They're called activity items because on iOS,

00:55:02 ◼   ► The share sheet is governed by the UI activity API.

00:55:06 ◼   ► So Marco wanted to share multiple activity items

00:55:08 ◼   ► at the same time.

00:55:10 ◼   ► So both a link and a video file, which in theory

00:55:14 ◼   ► is possible on iOS.

00:55:16 ◼   ► But what he discovered is that so many third party apps

00:55:21 ◼   ► don't do a good job at accepting multiple items shared

00:55:26 ◼   ► behind the scenes from one app to another via the share sheet.

00:55:31 ◼   ► So I did some research because I remembered writing about this.

00:55:36 ◼   ► And in fact, in my iOS 9 review, I

00:55:39 ◼   ► noted that Apple made some improvements around how

00:55:45 ◼   ► third-party apps can show up in the share sheet

00:55:48 ◼   ► if they support at least one of the items

00:55:52 ◼   ► that one app is passing as activity items.

00:55:55 ◼   ► So before iOS 9, let's say that Myke is a developer,

00:56:00 ◼   ► and he create, let's say, what can you be a developer of this time?

00:56:04 ◼   ► One, two, three Twitter Client.

00:56:06 ◼   ► Myke is the developer of one, two, three...

00:56:08 ◼   ► No, Twitter Client doesn't work.

00:56:10 ◼   ► Myke is the developer of one, two, three Graphic Editor.

00:56:14 ◼   ► And it's an app that lets you share images

00:56:18 ◼   ► both as PDF versions and JPEGs.

00:56:23 ◼   ► And so he implements the share sheet,

00:56:26 ◼   ► and he shares both files with the share sheet.

00:56:29 ◼   ► Before iOS 9, the extensions that you would see appear in the sharesheet were only for

00:56:36 ◼   ► those apps that explicitly said to the system "we support both PDF and JPEG".

00:56:45 ◼   ► But if you only supported one of the two, so either a PDF or a JPEG, you would not show

00:56:51 ◼   ► up in the sharesheet at all, which was terrible in iOS 8.

00:56:55 ◼   ► In iOS 9 Apple made this change saying, "Okay, even if you support just one of the multiple

00:57:01 ◼   ► formats that are passed as activity items, you will appear in the sharesheet, and by

00:57:06 ◼   ► default you will accept just the item that you support."

00:57:10 ◼   ► Which is great because it allows a consistent experience of you see always the same apps

00:57:15 ◼   ► in the sharesheet and all of that.

00:57:16 ◼   ► The problem is that, again, as Marco noticed, so many developers don't do the work of saying,

00:57:23 ◼   ► we can read multiple data items at the same time

00:57:28 ◼   ► and accept those at the same time and share them.

00:57:32 ◼   ► So you find yourself in the situation of Overcast

00:57:35 ◼   ► is sharing both a link and a video.

00:57:37 ◼   ► But then the extension that you pick,

00:57:41 ◼   ► whether it's a Twitter client or an email client, whatever,

00:57:45 ◼   ► only shows you the video, or maybe only shows you the link.

00:57:48 ◼   ► - Which is arguably a worse experience

00:57:50 ◼   ► because it is unknown, right?

00:57:52 ◼   ► That's the problem.

00:57:53 ◼   ► Yeah, it's unknown and less obvious.

00:57:55 ◼   ► And so what Marco did, I think, is the right call

00:57:59 ◼   ► until Apple provides some kind of better system, maybe.

00:58:04 ◼   ► By default, I'm just going to share the video, because that's

00:58:06 ◼   ► the most important part.

00:58:07 ◼   ► It's the video clip.

00:58:09 ◼   ► And then I'm going to put a button in the toolbar

00:58:12 ◼   ► to copy the link to the episode.

00:58:13 ◼   ► So the perfect workflow at this moment

00:58:16 ◼   ► would be you copy the link to the clipboard,

00:58:19 ◼   ► and then you share the video.

00:58:20 ◼   ► You use whatever app or whatever extension you want

00:58:24 ◼   ► to insert the video clip,

00:58:26 ◼   ► and then you manually paste the link

00:58:28 ◼   ► that you've copied to the clipboard.

00:58:30 ◼   ► Which is, I think, is, again, that's the right call.

00:58:34 ◼   ► Ideally, there should be some changes

00:58:37 ◼   ► around how the share sheet

00:58:38 ◼   ► and the activity API stuff works.

00:58:41 ◼   ► I kinda wish that Marco shipped the option

00:58:48 ◼   ► maybe as an advanced feature,

00:58:50 ◼   ► Because I would have had fun scripting that with shortcuts.

00:58:54 ◼   ► That would have been something to deal with the video

00:58:57 ◼   ► and the link at the same time.

00:58:59 ◼   ► Would have been fun.

00:59:00 ◼   ► So maybe there could be like a secret gesture

00:59:03 ◼   ► or a secret keyboard shortcut like the Konami code

00:59:07 ◼   ► that lets you share both video and link at the same time.

00:59:10 ◼   ► - That is a convoluted way to share something.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Right, up, down, up, down.

00:59:15 ◼   ► - To be fair though, how many people use Overcast on an iPad

00:59:18 ◼   ► with a smart keyboard attached.

00:59:20 ◼   ► That could be a Konami code that nobody knows about, just me.

00:59:23 ◼   ► And I could be, I would be able to share with shortcuts.

00:59:26 ◼   ► - No, let's go to the Tichi code.

00:59:28 ◼   ► - The Tichi code.

00:59:29 ◼   ► - What is the Tichi keyboard shortcut?

00:59:31 ◼   ► - It's the, all right, the Tichi code would be

00:59:35 ◼   ► the hex color code of the Italian flag.

00:59:38 ◼   ► - That feels like a lot of characters.

00:59:40 ◼   ► - That's a, pretty long.

00:59:43 ◼   ► - Well, you gotta commit to the secret code,

00:59:46 ◼   ► if you wanna have a secret code.

00:59:48 ◼   ► What is that? What is it? Can someone believe that? I want to know what it is now.

00:59:53 ◼   ► I have no idea, honestly.

00:59:55 ◼   ► Please tweet at us.

00:59:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I want the whole thing.

00:59:59 ◼   ► Myke will see it in the official app in two days.

01:00:01 ◼   ► Yep. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Something like that.

01:00:04 ◼   ► Cool. Yeah, I think it's an awesome feature. It's so good.

01:00:07 ◼   ► Having spoken about this on upgrade as well, like, it's been fun over the last few days

01:00:13 ◼   ► because it's been encouraging people to send clips to me and Jason, which is amazing,

01:00:17 ◼   ► of the things they liked about the episode. And it is wild to me that like 90% of the clips that

01:00:22 ◼   ► we've seen have been about the same thing, which is just this one little joke that we made about

01:00:27 ◼   ► lasers. And that is not what I would have expected people would have clipped, even as what we and me

01:00:32 ◼   ► and Jason thought was the funniest moment of the episode. But so it's considering like, I think a

01:00:37 ◼   ► lot of the time I feel like I work in a vacuum. Like, I make things and I release them. But you

01:00:43 ◼   ► You don't really know particularly what people enjoy.

01:00:46 ◼   ► You hear about... people say they liked the episode quite a lot or they will say they

01:00:52 ◼   ► want to talk about a specific thing, good or bad.

01:00:56 ◼   ► It is super nice to be able to see what people are clipping and sharing about a specific

01:01:02 ◼   ► thing.

01:01:03 ◼   ► And this isn't just my own shows.

01:01:04 ◼   ► I have been really enjoying looking at people who I follow online share clips from their

01:01:09 ◼   ► favorite podcasts, you know, like I've seen a lot of hypercritical clips and

01:01:12 ◼   ► You Look Nice Today clips and Dubai Friday clips and stuff like that. And I

01:01:16 ◼   ► think it's really fun because I listen to all those shows so I press it and I'm like

01:01:19 ◼   ► "Oh I remember that moment, that was brilliant." So I encourage, there's also been some

01:01:24 ◼   ► weird fish clips of course, not like the PHISH, our Federico's weird fish.

01:01:29 ◼   ► Oh no, fish are weird, the band Fish, but they were talking about...

01:01:33 ◼   ► Yeah, but that's, that was just wasn't what I was, you know, we were talking about Marco and I

01:01:37 ◼   ► figured it might confuse people. But so I, you know, I'm sure we all do

01:01:40 ◼   ► encourage you to, if you ever find something you enjoy about our show,

01:01:44 ◼   ► share that clip. And if you want to please tag us in it because I like

01:01:49 ◼   ► listening to it. Um, I think it helps. I think it helps. We have a courtesy of

01:01:55 ◼   ► underscore in the chat room. We have the full code. Would you like me to read

01:01:59 ◼   ► the code?

01:01:59 ◼   ► Yes.

01:02:00 ◼   ► Yes.

01:02:01 ◼   ► #118336 #FFFFFFF #C0162A

01:02:09 ◼   ► That is the full Federico code.

01:02:12 ◼   ► I feel like he should be an Italian as well.

01:02:13 ◼   ► Hang on a second. Real-time follow-up, real-time follow-up.

01:02:17 ◼   ► So what Underscore got is I'm sure is just like the hex codes of green and white and red.

01:02:24 ◼   ► But there's an official one.

01:02:26 ◼   ► Kate has found via Wikipedia an official specified by law hex code for the Italian flag, which is

01:02:35 ◼   ► completely different, which is #008C45, #F4, F5, F0, #CD212A. That is the official,

01:02:46 ◼   ► as specified by law, hexadecimal code for the trickle law.

01:02:51 ◼   ► So it's not quite pure white. You got a little, little fanciness in there.

01:02:56 ◼   ► >> You put a little on it, you know, put a bit of mustard on that thing.

01:03:00 ◼   ► >> Wow. Well, glad we got that sorted out on this.

01:03:05 ◼   ► >> The more you know, we have laws that govern colors of flags.

01:03:11 ◼   ► >> It's like branding guidelines. It's not a surprise. We have like hexadecimal codes

01:03:16 ◼   ► for all of the real AFM stuff. I'm sure you do too, Federico. It's kind of like a flag.

01:03:20 ◼   ► >> Yeah, well, Sylvia does. I have no idea what type of red.

01:03:24 ◼   ► There is one, right? There is a hexadecimal code for the box store as well.

01:03:26 ◼   ► There is one somewhere, yes.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Yes.

01:03:29 ◼   ► Are we done with this part now? I feel like we've covered the flag colors pretty well.

01:03:33 ◼   ► Yeah, that was the most important part.

01:03:35 ◼   ► We'll be proud of that. Okay. We have one final sponsor this week, and that is our friends over at Away.

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01:06:10 ◼   ► I'm sorry to do this to you guys, but I feel like we have very important real

01:06:16 ◼   ► time follow up on the matter of flags.

01:06:18 ◼   ► Um, yeah, it's popping off in the chat room.

01:06:21 ◼   ► They go wild in there about this.

01:06:23 ◼   ► We should mention it.

01:06:24 ◼   ► Uh, so underscore David Smith went on the, uh, he says seemingly

01:06:29 ◼   ► official government website.

01:06:31 ◼   ► And he has a point.

01:06:32 ◼   ► It's not even HTTPS.

01:06:33 ◼   ► I mean, come on.

01:06:34 ◼   ► How expensive is an SSL certificate for the Italian government after all the taxes we

01:06:39 ◼   ► pay? But anyway.

01:06:40 ◼   ► Oh, there you go. Popping off now.

01:06:43 ◼   ► Step back.

01:06:45 ◼   ► So the government website uses a slight variation of the previous color. So this one will be

01:06:52 ◼   ► 009246FFFFF CE2B37. You know, very popular color scheme. But Kate noticed how on Wikipedia,

01:07:04 ◼   ► In fact, they mention how the color that she discovered only applies to flags produced

01:07:11 ◼   ► on polyester fabric bunting?

01:07:13 ◼   ► Yeah, bunting is like flags.

01:07:17 ◼   ► Like little flags.

01:07:18 ◼   ► Why polyester though?

01:07:20 ◼   ► What if I wanted to make a cotton Italian flag?

01:07:23 ◼   ► Or a silk Italian flag?

01:07:25 ◼   ► You would get arrested in Italy.

01:07:27 ◼   ► You cannot have a cotton flag.

01:07:32 ◼   ► It's against the law.

01:07:33 ◼   ► You learn something new every day.

01:07:38 ◼   ► I declined the cookies on your government website.

01:07:41 ◼   ► I'm such a rebel.

01:07:42 ◼   ► Yeah, you shouldn't trust those.

01:07:44 ◼   ► I declined them.

01:07:46 ◼   ► I have a lot of questions about this website, but we don't have time for them.

01:07:50 ◼   ► Yeah, I have a lot of questions about the government, but we don't have time for that.

01:07:54 ◼   ► Anyway.

01:07:55 ◼   ► I do like, I don't know what this says, so hopefully this isn't something bad, but like

01:08:01 ◼   ► Halfway down the page on the right hand side, there's a graph and it's like an

01:08:05 ◼   ► arrow shooting out the top of the colors of the Italian flag.

01:08:09 ◼   ► It's very exciting.

01:08:10 ◼   ► It's a very exciting graphic.

01:08:12 ◼   ► What does that say?

01:08:13 ◼   ► Federico?

01:08:13 ◼   ► Do you see it?

01:08:14 ◼   ► Contrati these fill up.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Oh yeah.

01:08:18 ◼   ► That arrow is bull.

01:08:19 ◼   ► So we had a pretty good show this week.

01:08:31 ◼   ► What is the error signifying? Is it my growth and economy?

01:08:37 ◼   ► Yes, but again, I would rather not talk about any of this.

01:08:42 ◼   ► Okay, okay. Let's talk about something more exciting than government websites.

01:08:46 ◼   ► RSS apps for the Mac.

01:08:48 ◼   ► Oh, no, no, no. Why for the Mac? Why just Mac and iOS?

01:08:53 ◼   ► Mac and iOS.

01:08:54 ◼   ► Well, you can't do real RSS on an iPad.

01:08:58 ◼   ► I mean, the app that we're going to talk about, I haven't tested it on a Mac at all.

01:09:02 ◼   ► So if you if it translates to development contracts.

01:09:06 ◼   ► Oh, my God.

01:09:07 ◼   ► This sounds very it sounds very like like Sopranos like it's

01:09:13 ◼   ► I'm done now. I'm done.

01:09:18 ◼   ► Reader four, reader four.

01:09:20 ◼   ► So here's some context.

01:09:23 ◼   ► A bunch of people have been asking me and in my absence on Twitter, John Voorhis,

01:09:30 ◼   ► why we didn't have a review of Reader 4 on Mac Stories.

01:09:35 ◼   ► Reader 4 is a new version of the popular Reader with 2e by Swiss developer Silvio Rizzi.

01:09:43 ◼   ► He launched a new version last week, I think, both on the Mac and iOS.

01:09:48 ◼   ► The Mac version has been in public beta for a few months.

01:09:50 ◼   ► the iOS version. I received the beta a few days before the public launch on the

01:09:55 ◼   ► App Store, but we had no details about the public launch and because of the way

01:10:01 ◼   ► that we operate with our reviews we do not like to rehash change logs and let

01:10:07 ◼   ► them pass as quote-unquote "reviews". We actually want to use apps before we write

01:10:12 ◼   ► about them, but we had, you know, we had no idea we should be writing about the

01:10:15 ◼   ► app, so that's why we don't have a review. But I still decided to buy the app from

01:10:20 ◼   ► the App Store and using myself and see what it would be like. And there's a

01:10:25 ◼   ► there's a few really interesting things that I wanted to to talk about it. So I

01:10:31 ◼   ► assume we're all familiar with Reader, either from the Mac or from the from iOS,

01:10:37 ◼   ► right? Yeah it's been around forever. Yeah, all right. So this new version, one of the

01:10:43 ◼   ► reasons that it took a long time to the point where a bunch of people were

01:10:47 ◼   ► wondering whether the developer was still around and working on the app or not, is that he's been busy

01:10:52 ◼   ► rewriting the foundation of the app to have a common code base between the Mac and the iOS version.

01:11:00 ◼   ► But this is happening before

01:11:03 ◼   ► Marzipan. - It's a curious decision.

01:11:06 ◼   ► Exactly. So I'm wondering

01:11:09 ◼   ► will this be a bunch of wasted work

01:11:12 ◼   ► next month, essentially? So

01:11:16 ◼   ► If the goal was to have a shared code base like at a very high level

01:11:20 ◼   ► Would have been preferable to wait for Apple's solution and see what it would be like unless unless there is just some I mean

01:11:29 ◼   ► I don't know who knows how apps work. Nobody knows

01:11:31 ◼   ► Nobody knows nobody knows

01:11:34 ◼   ► Underscore knows but there's only two people. It's just the two of them. They're the only people that know maybe there's like a bunch of stuff that

01:11:41 ◼   ► He would have had to have done right like there's just like a bunch of things that the app is doing

01:11:46 ◼   ► Yeah, but even then yeah, I don't know. I can't get my head around this one so much, but my question is

01:11:52 ◼   ► So we have no idea if maybe there was like he only wanted to share some elements of his code

01:11:59 ◼   ► And just it's not strictly about the UI

01:12:01 ◼   ► I don't because I think about something like pcalc right which from talking to James

01:12:06 ◼   ► I know that there's a lot of shared code between those two versions and pcalc's been around forever like the Mac and iOS version

01:12:14 ◼   ► Right, but like I don't know how much of it here. I don't know who knows how this stuff works

01:12:18 ◼   ► We've already been over that nobody does but my question is

01:12:21 ◼   ► when

01:12:23 ◼   ► Such as in this case the stated intention is to share the same code base

01:12:31 ◼   ► across multiple platforms. I haven't seen much criticism of its decision to have essentially,

01:12:38 ◼   ► you know, it looks like the same app experience on the iPad and the Mac from what I've seen.

01:12:42 ◼   ► But when a developer says they're excited about Marzipan, for some people that's just like

01:12:50 ◼   ► blasphemy, like saying something that is extremely bad. Is it just because it's an Apple technology,

01:12:58 ◼   ► or is it because it's an extreme of that idea?

01:13:01 ◼   ► Because developers are already doing this.

01:13:03 ◼   ► They are already sharing code bases between apps.

01:13:06 ◼   ► - Well, I think a lot of it is judging books by their covers.

01:13:11 ◼   ► The reader for Mac doesn't look like an iOS app.

01:13:14 ◼   ► Like, I'm looking at the page, right?

01:13:17 ◼   ► The design, it still looks pretty Mac-like.

01:13:20 ◼   ► It's very simple.

01:13:21 ◼   ► It's like the more kind of standard Mac design of today, right?

01:13:25 ◼   ► like the post iOS 7 of vacation of all applications, right? Like that flat look,

01:13:30 ◼   ► but they do not look like the same application. And I'm running it and it feels, and this is a

01:13:37 ◼   ► topic I want to get to, it feels very much like Reader 3. It doesn't feel like a lot has changed.

01:13:44 ◼   ► And so maybe this code they're referring to is sort of like low level dealing with syncing,

01:13:49 ◼   ► dealing with feed fetching, or, you know, that sort of stuff. And the UI code and sort of the

01:13:54 ◼   ► the look and feel is all kind of the same as it was.

01:13:57 ◼   ► Well, I think it's interesting how there's developers who are already, you know, sort

01:14:04 ◼   ► of having this idea of let's just make one experience across platforms.

01:14:10 ◼   ► It makes total sense.

01:14:11 ◼   ► I mean, I think that's why Marzipan is coming now, because that's got to be the general

01:14:17 ◼   ► consensus amongst a lot of companies of like, why do I still put all of this work into all

01:14:25 ◼   ► of these separate versions of my applications?

01:14:27 ◼   ► Why stuff like Electron exists, right?

01:14:29 ◼   ► Because it's like, how much effort can we put into supporting every platform?

01:14:36 ◼   ► And you know, Electron apps run on platforms where like, you know, like the Mac and Windows

01:14:41 ◼   ► where it's like, it would be really beneficial for us because nobody's like mega excited,

01:14:45 ◼   ► or like the general population is not mega excited about the application development

01:14:50 ◼   ► on these platforms, right?

01:14:51 ◼   ► Like it's smartphones now, right?

01:14:53 ◼   ► And tablets that people seem to be excited about.

01:14:56 ◼   ► So we'll just, we can do this.

01:14:58 ◼   ► So let's just do this.

01:15:00 ◼   ► And that's how stuff like electronics apps continue to proliferate, right?

01:15:03 ◼   ► Because it's consolidating the amount of development that you have to do where you can.

01:15:08 ◼   ► And so I figured like you see something like this and it's like, yeah, I would like to unify the work.

01:15:13 ◼   ► the work so there's stuff that I don't have to continue duplicating and redoing over and

01:15:18 ◼   ► over again.

01:15:19 ◼   ► I can imagine it's got to get pretty tiring to every time you want to build a feature

01:15:24 ◼   ► on one platform you have to find a different way to build it on the other platform.

01:15:29 ◼   ► Which is why I think ultimately that Marzipan will be a good thing for these reasons.

01:15:33 ◼   ► In theory as long as everything can be implemented in a tasteful way that works well it should

01:15:39 ◼   ► make stuff easier for people, like to be able to offer multiple versions of

01:15:43 ◼   ► applications on multiple platforms. I have an anecdote for you. So until a few

01:15:49 ◼   ► years ago, by the end of the year, I used to do on Mac stories both the must-have

01:15:55 ◼   ► iPad apps and the must-have iPhone apps as two separate stories. But then what

01:16:01 ◼   ► happened, and this happened for like two years, maybe three years, is that I would

01:16:06 ◼   ► write one of the articles first. But because so many of the, let's say, the iPad apps were

01:16:13 ◼   ► also my must-haves on the iPhone, I found myself in this situation of having to rewrite

01:16:20 ◼   ► the same section for the same app, but in a different way, because I already talked

01:16:25 ◼   ► about it in the previous article. And so eventually I decided to just make one article, one story,

01:16:32 ◼   ► about must-have iOS apps.

01:16:34 ◼   ► - Especially as iPad app development slowed down as well.

01:16:37 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly. - Right over time.

01:16:39 ◼   ► - So I just decided to do a single story

01:16:42 ◼   ► where I could talk about all of the apps

01:16:44 ◼   ► and do even more of them with a single effort.

01:16:49 ◼   ► And so in a way, that's kinda like, I'm not a developer,

01:16:52 ◼   ► but I can relate to the idea of why would you wanna

01:16:54 ◼   ► do the same work twice in a slightly different way?

01:16:57 ◼   ► So anyway, reader forward, there's a bunch of cool things

01:17:02 ◼   ► that I want to mention and maybe suggest a few improvements.

01:17:05 ◼   ► So the app is just as fluid and like,

01:17:10 ◼   ► it's a pleasure to use

01:17:12 ◼   ► and this has always been true for reader.

01:17:13 ◼   ► The way that the animations and the gestures work,

01:17:17 ◼   ► it's very well done.

01:17:19 ◼   ► What I appreciate in this version,

01:17:21 ◼   ► so it's kind of hard for me to tell exactly what's new.

01:17:24 ◼   ► So this couple of things I actually noticed.

01:17:26 ◼   ► There's better keyboard navigation on the iPad.

01:17:29 ◼   ► So there's more keyboard shortcuts

01:17:31 ◼   ► to navigate your unread items and open the browser

01:17:35 ◼   ► and share items, mark them as read from the keyboard.

01:17:40 ◼   ► So that's really well done.

01:17:41 ◼   ► I wish that there was more keyboard control going on.

01:17:46 ◼   ► I don't think the current keyboard shortcuts are not enough.

01:17:49 ◼   ► You cannot control the entire app.

01:17:51 ◼   ► So for example, you cannot use the arrow keys

01:17:54 ◼   ► to switch between folders in the sidebar.

01:17:57 ◼   ► Whereas I think there should be,

01:17:58 ◼   ► like if you wanna do keyboard shortcuts, great,

01:18:00 ◼   ► But you should also consider doing full-on keyboard

01:18:04 ◼   ► navigation.

01:18:05 ◼   ► And every screen and every element

01:18:08 ◼   ► should be selectable and associated

01:18:10 ◼   ► with a keyboard shortcut.

01:18:11 ◼   ► These days, an iPad.

01:18:13 ◼   ► So that could be improved.

01:18:15 ◼   ► I really like the fact that there's now

01:18:18 ◼   ► a full layout on the iPad matching what

01:18:22 ◼   ► is possible on the Mac.

01:18:23 ◼   ► So you can show three columns at once.

01:18:26 ◼   ► You can have your sidebar, your article list,

01:18:29 ◼   ► and the article view, all up on screen at the same time,

01:18:33 ◼   ► which is great on the iPad Pro.

01:18:34 ◼   ► So you can have three columns on the big iPad Pro,

01:18:38 ◼   ► move between articles with the keyboard,

01:18:39 ◼   ► it works really well.

01:18:40 ◼   ► So, and again, I wish that more developers

01:18:45 ◼   ► actually did this on the iPad,

01:18:47 ◼   ► you know, use a three column layout.

01:18:50 ◼   ► And I was actually in touch with a developer recently

01:18:53 ◼   ► of one of the apps that I use a lot.

01:18:55 ◼   ► I don't wanna call it out in case he doesn't want to.

01:18:58 ◼   ► but I asked for this kind of column layout.

01:19:01 ◼   ► And he mentioned how he was using the default

01:19:06 ◼   ► split view control that Apple provides as an API

01:19:09 ◼   ► for developers to have on the iPad,

01:19:11 ◼   ► a sidebar and a content view on the right.

01:19:14 ◼   ► And he mentioned how he would like to do

01:19:16 ◼   ► a more custom Mac-like layout on iPad,

01:19:19 ◼   ► like multiple columns, multiple content areas,

01:19:24 ◼   ► But that will require a custom implementation right now.

01:19:28 ◼   ► And he mentioned something really interesting

01:19:31 ◼   ► that maybe Marzipan, because of the way that--

01:19:36 ◼   ► the idea of bringing iPad apps to the Mac.

01:19:38 ◼   ► And on the Mac, it is very common

01:19:39 ◼   ► to have at least three columns.

01:19:42 ◼   ► You have a sidebar, you have an item list,

01:19:44 ◼   ► and you have an item view.

01:19:45 ◼   ► That is very common for a Mac app.

01:19:47 ◼   ► Maybe that will push Apple to say,

01:19:50 ◼   ► we should also offer this type of layout

01:19:52 ◼   ► as an API for iOS developers.

01:19:54 ◼   ► So that was a really fascinating point.

01:19:56 ◼   ► Maybe thanks to Marzipan, we will have that kind of influence

01:20:00 ◼   ► back towards the iPad of if you want to bring this to the Mac,

01:20:04 ◼   ► then you can also have this control, this API on the iPad,

01:20:07 ◼   ► which would be nice.

01:20:10 ◼   ► There are some other minor additions in Reader 4,

01:20:14 ◼   ► better ways to have image previews.

01:20:17 ◼   ► And this is something that I do not quite understand.

01:20:21 ◼   ► There's a new built-in reading list feature

01:20:23 ◼   ► that allows you to save articles for later,

01:20:29 ◼   ► which is great, but you cannot save articles

01:20:32 ◼   ► from other apps, it's just a reading list

01:20:35 ◼   ► for things you discover in your RSS.

01:20:38 ◼   ► And how's that different from storing some article

01:20:43 ◼   ► from your RSS and finding it later?

01:20:47 ◼   ► I think it would make so much more sense

01:20:49 ◼   ► to have a Reader extension that lets you save any article,

01:20:52 ◼   ► any link from Safari or Twitter or whatever.

01:20:56 ◼   ► Instead, this is a built-in reading list for Reader,

01:20:59 ◼   ► but it only applies to items

01:21:01 ◼   ► that you save from Reader itself.

01:21:03 ◼   ► So if you come across an article on Twitter

01:21:05 ◼   ► or Safari or whatever, you cannot save it to Reader.

01:21:09 ◼   ► So there should be an extension.

01:21:11 ◼   ► - And there's support for ReadItLater services.

01:21:14 ◼   ► You can hook up your Instapaper account to Reader,

01:21:17 ◼   ► but it treats it like it's RSS articles,

01:21:20 ◼   ► like the UI isn't personalized enough, I don't think,

01:21:24 ◼   ► for that sort of content.

01:21:25 ◼   ► And, like to your point,

01:21:27 ◼   ► if there was a share extension for this,

01:21:29 ◼   ► or you could send stuff to it,

01:21:31 ◼   ► then I could like potentially get stuff

01:21:34 ◼   ► from somewhere into my Instapaper account via Reader.

01:21:37 ◼   ► Like, it feels like that side of things

01:21:39 ◼   ► just isn't done enough for what I would want.

01:21:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, so, and there's also support

01:21:47 ◼   ► for bionic reading, which is not a feature for people listening to old mic shows, but

01:21:55 ◼   ► it's a feature that sort of tries to make it easier to read text on the web more quickly.

01:22:07 ◼   ► How?

01:22:08 ◼   ► It makes the first few letters of a word bold.

01:22:15 ◼   ► It makes the font bold of the first few letters of any word,

01:22:19 ◼   ► which in theory allows you to scan words more quickly.

01:22:23 ◼   ► I'm looking at the website and I can't read this paragraph.

01:22:26 ◼   ► Yeah, it's a... let's just say opinionated.

01:22:31 ◼   ► It makes it like I can only read one word at a time.

01:22:36 ◼   ► It reminds me of the dyslexia font somehow.

01:22:40 ◼   ► I don't know why.

01:22:41 ◼   ► Well, I think the like the open dyslexia font, like

01:22:45 ◼   ► I think it has a lot of like loops and stuff in some letters are thicker.

01:22:52 ◼   ► So there's like a thickness difference in the letters.

01:22:55 ◼   ► I think that's what it is.

01:22:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I can't read this.

01:22:59 ◼   ► It's this is upsetting to me.

01:23:01 ◼   ► I'm sure it works for some people. Right.

01:23:03 ◼   ► But that does not work for my brain.

01:23:05 ◼   ► Not for me either.

01:23:05 ◼   ► So, um, reader for, I, I, I kind of wonder if maybe, you know, these days there's no

01:23:12 ◼   ► shortage of really good, uh, RSS clients on, on iOS.

01:23:16 ◼   ► And I, and I have to wonder, people still use an RSS.

01:23:18 ◼   ► Yes.

01:23:20 ◼   ► Especially in this day and age of getting your news from social apps is terrible.

01:23:25 ◼   ► Well, cause I was just thinking there's like, you know, more and more centralized

01:23:29 ◼   ► services these days too, like Apple news or whatever.

01:23:32 ◼   ► That I assume that's not overtaken.

01:23:35 ◼   ► I mean, I don't use any of these types of apps. It's just if it's on Twitter or read it

01:23:38 ◼   ► this is a bigger topic, but I feel like there's a there's a

01:23:41 ◼   ► There's always gonna be a niche of people who prefer RSS because it's the idea of

01:23:46 ◼   ► You're fully in control of the sources that you read. There's no algorithm. There's no

01:23:51 ◼   ► Major company having some kind of vested interest in the kind of news that you see. It's your subscriptions

01:23:59 ◼   ► it's your file in the sense of like you can export your subscriptions as an opml file,

01:24:06 ◼   ► you can fully control everything here, and you're never gonna see stuff you don't wanna

01:24:11 ◼   ► see from sources you don't care about.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Yeah, you know this might be the issue with your Twitter experiment, that I get all my

01:24:17 ◼   ► news from Twitter.

01:24:19 ◼   ► So that might be... we'll see, that might be a bit trickier for me, I'll find out.

01:24:25 ◼   ► But yeah, anyway, my main takeaway was I'm gonna use Reader for a while and see how it

01:24:30 ◼   ► works, but I have to wonder if maybe these days apps like Fiery Feeds and Lear are maybe

01:24:37 ◼   ► doing a bit more on iOS in terms of the features that they have and all the customizations

01:24:43 ◼   ► that they have, the keyboard navigation, the drag and drop support.

01:24:47 ◼   ► It feels like maybe Reader is still stuck in a bit in the past in an era of what iOS

01:24:54 ◼   ► were like three years ago, four years ago, and especially Fivvy feeds, like all the options that

01:25:00 ◼   ► you have like smart views and filters and custom share actions, that kind of stuff,

01:25:07 ◼   ► it's hard to match. So we'll see how this experiment goes in using Reeder, but it's really

01:25:15 ◼   ► beautiful and it's really smooth and fast and fluid, so I'll give you that. It's very nice

01:25:21 ◼   ► looking and a pleasure to use. I think that about does it. If you want to

01:25:26 ◼   ► find the links to stuff we spoke about this week you can head over to the

01:25:30 ◼   ► website relay.fm/connected/241 links of course will also be in your

01:25:37 ◼   ► podcast app you're listening to us in probably most of them do it the good

01:25:41 ◼   ► ones do it. If you have follow-up or feedback you want to send us there is an

01:25:47 ◼   ► email link in the sidebar of that web page or you can find us on Twitter.

01:25:52 ◼   ► Myke is there as I M Y K E.

01:25:55 ◼   ► Myke of course is the host of a lot of shows here at relay FM.

01:25:58 ◼   ► You can check those out at relay.fm/shows.

01:26:02 ◼   ► You can find Federico on Twitter, at least when he's done with this article

01:26:06 ◼   ► at Vitici V I T I C C I and he is the editor in chief of max stories.net.

01:26:12 ◼   ► You can find me on Twitter as ISMH and I write 512 pixels.net.

01:26:17 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week hover

01:26:20 ◼   ► Squarespace and away and until next week gentlemen say goodbye. I'll leave it at you cheerio adios