Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:07 ◼   ► From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 253.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace, Pingdom and TextExpander.

00:00:16 ◼   ► It is an odd numbered episode, so I get to introduce Myke Hurley to the show.

00:00:21 ◼   ► Hi Myke. Hi Myke. It's me.

00:00:24 ◼   ► I'm hosting today and I'm still a guest co-host I guess.

00:00:27 ◼   ► Uh, Federico, hello.

00:00:29 ◼   ► This is the strangest introduction I've ever witnessed.

00:00:32 ◼   ► Yep.

00:00:33 ◼   ► Hello, Myke and Myke 2.

00:00:35 ◼   ► Well, look, here's the thing.

00:00:36 ◼   ► After last week's episode, I've decided that I want to talk 10 times more than usual on this episode.

00:00:43 ◼   ► So I'm going to go about saying things in a way that might be superfluous in nature,

00:00:47 ◼   ► just so I can try and win back some of the time that I lost from the previous episode.

00:00:52 ◼   ► You don't have to win. It's not mandatory for you to win it back.

00:00:56 ◼   ► I just feel like I didn't give all the mic fans out there the hot words that they were

00:01:00 ◼   ► looking for, you know?

00:01:02 ◼   ► Is that what you think people expect from you?

00:01:04 ◼   ► Hot words?

00:01:05 ◼   ► I think that there is a certain subset of people that expect a lot of words from me,

00:01:08 ◼   ► yeah, and they want it.

00:01:09 ◼   ► And when they come to the episode and I'm like croaking the occasional yap at them,

00:01:14 ◼   ► I don't think that they're gonna... they're not leaving the episode happy.

00:01:17 ◼   ► I think people were happy, judging from the reactions that we've seen.

00:01:22 ◼   ► - It was, yes, it was one of those things

00:01:25 ◼   ► where we made a judgment call before last week's episode,

00:01:28 ◼   ► decided that I would be on the show

00:01:30 ◼   ► and that I would say one word

00:01:32 ◼   ► and people seemed to enjoy it.

00:01:35 ◼   ► Marina Ivanova and Myke Apurin made a website

00:01:38 ◼   ► called miketheoracle.space,

00:01:41 ◼   ► which is basically me as a magic eight ball.

00:01:44 ◼   ► So think about a question, you ask the oracle

00:01:48 ◼   ► and you press a button to hear the prophecy

00:01:50 ◼   ► and they have clipped my many many

00:01:53 ◼   ► words

00:01:54 ◼   ► uh... from last week's episode

00:01:55 ◼   ► and play them back to you and it can help you so for example you could say

00:01:59 ◼   ► like

00:02:00 ◼   ► uh... is steven hackett here today and says here the prophecy

00:02:03 ◼   ► and the prophecy said yes to me

00:02:06 ◼   ► which is not true 'cause he isn't

00:02:07 ◼   ► but he's on holiday

00:02:09 ◼   ► will i finish writing the iOS 13 review by august twenty

00:02:16 ◼   ► it's a yes! oh that's good news this is an oracle

00:02:19 ◼   ► Stephen won't be here today though, the Oracle can't be right all the time. We are entering

00:02:23 ◼   ► a connected vacation season. That's happening now. What that means is over the next couple

00:02:30 ◼   ► of months we're all over the place.

00:02:32 ◼   ► Not a couple of months. Next month.

00:02:35 ◼   ► Right, but I'm taking some trips later, he's taking some trips later. You know, like I

00:02:39 ◼   ► know you, your trips are confined. But I think we don't do like I take a trip, you take a

00:02:44 ◼   ► trip, Stephen takes a trip. They're like spread out. So like there might be two weeks where

00:02:48 ◼   ► roll back to normal and then one of us is gone again. And you know, it adds to some

00:02:54 ◼   ► variation and some wild introductions like this one where I'm just rambling on and on

00:02:59 ◼   ► and on. But we are actually, believe it or not, see this is what happens when Steven's

00:03:03 ◼   ► not around, we are already in follow up but nobody declared us so.

00:03:07 ◼   ► But that's how well we do, the follow up sneaks up on you.

00:03:11 ◼   ► It does.

00:03:12 ◼   ► You don't even notice, you don't even notice it's happening until you know it's happening.

00:03:15 ◼   ► I am going to betray follow-up by immediately doing some follow-out.

00:03:21 ◼   ► And the follow-out is to upgrade episode 255.

00:03:25 ◼   ► On last week's episode, you spoke about, you spoke about, I was there, but you two spoke

00:03:30 ◼   ► about Apple podcast exclusives.

00:03:34 ◼   ► And Steven asked me to provide some follow-up of my thoughts on this.

00:03:38 ◼   ► I just spoke about the macheson on upgrade instead.

00:03:41 ◼   ► So if you want to hear my thoughts on Apple potentially making exclusive podcasts, go

00:03:47 ◼   ► listen to episode 255 of Upgrade.

00:03:50 ◼   ► I just listened to that yesterday and it was a really good episode and I especially liked

00:03:54 ◼   ► that segment.

00:03:55 ◼   ► Thank you very much.

00:03:56 ◼   ► Yeah, we pre-recorded that episode because Jason was away and we needed things to talk

00:04:00 ◼   ► about and that was one of the things that we could talk about.

00:04:02 ◼   ► It was good to hear your voice again.

00:04:04 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:04:06 ◼   ► I'm pretty much back to normal.

00:04:09 ◼   ► That was the first time in my entire 10 year podcasting career that I have lost my voice.

00:04:16 ◼   ► Like to that extent. You know I've had colds and stuff like that but that was a wild experience

00:04:21 ◼   ► and it only lasted like a day and a half. I don't think I even said on the show why

00:04:26 ◼   ► I didn't. I don't think it was a why. There was a reason that I'd lost my voice. It wasn't

00:04:30 ◼   ► just that I had a cold. Do you know? Did I tell you?

00:04:34 ◼   ► I think I know the reason. But in the morning I spent some time with

00:04:38 ◼   ► a school. I went in some workshops and stuff with a school who invited me to come and speak

00:04:44 ◼   ► to them, which is a really rewarding experience. But when you talk to four different classes

00:04:49 ◼   ► of school children for four hours straight, it is possible you will lose your voice. And

00:04:54 ◼   ► especially if you have a little cold, which I did. So like I had a, just a cold really,

00:04:59 ◼   ► but I sounded significantly more sick than I actually was, which was kind of funny because

00:05:04 ◼   ► people were like, like personal friends, like close friends, were like messaging me like,

00:05:08 ◼   ► "You're right, like you sound very sick." It's like, "Mmm, I wasn't that bad." It sounded

00:05:13 ◼   ► very bad. I wasn't that bad.

00:05:15 ◼   ► Yeah. When I told Sylvia that you had lost your voice after talking to kids at a school,

00:05:20 ◼   ► she looked at me and she teaches dance. She teaches hip-hop to kids. And she looked at

00:05:26 ◼   ► me with like, with a, with a, she said something like, "Yeah, I know, I know what that feels

00:05:32 ◼   ► like. You know, when she started doing that, especially the first couple of years, she

00:05:39 ◼   ► would always lose her voice in just one afternoon. So talking to kids sounds terrible. Don't

00:05:46 ◼   ► do it, especially if you're a podcaster.

00:05:48 ◼   ► There you go.

00:05:50 ◼   ► You had your first rock star moment, Myke. When you lost your voice, you needed to cancel

00:05:55 ◼   ► your concert. In this case, it was not a concert, it was a podcast episode.

00:05:59 ◼   ► I didn't cancel it.

00:06:00 ◼   ► I sort of cancelled it. I wanted to talk about my Echo Show a little bit more because I didn't

00:06:07 ◼   ► really get to share any of the feelings about it. My one word answers did not do a good

00:06:16 ◼   ► enough job of describing why I bought this device and I have now been using it for over

00:06:21 ◼   ► a week so I have some extended thoughts. So the main reason that we wanted to change our

00:06:26 ◼   ► is our original Echo, which was a generation 1 Echo, could not hear us very well.

00:06:32 ◼   ► And my thinking was on this that basically it had just gotten too old.

00:06:38 ◼   ► Like that either the microphones were degrading or we had gotten so used to the HomePod's sensitivity

00:06:46 ◼   ► that we were starting to realize where the Echo was failing more often.

00:06:52 ◼   ► often. So I decided I wanted to get a new Echo and I thought that it was maybe

00:06:59 ◼   ► time to try out the Echo Show which is something that I've been interested in.

00:07:02 ◼   ► Like what is one of these devices like with a screen? And part one has

00:07:09 ◼   ► been completely satisfied, right? Like it can hear us excellently, about as good as

00:07:14 ◼   ► the HomePod does and in ways that it couldn't before. So we have an

00:07:19 ◼   ► extractor fan in the kitchen, right? You know like one of those hoods that goes

00:07:21 ◼   ► over the top of the oven and it sucks in fumes or whatever. When we would have that on the

00:07:27 ◼   ► previous Echo could never hear but the new one does which is great. And also I have found

00:07:35 ◼   ► that the visual aid that the screen provides is really great. So for example multiple timers

00:07:43 ◼   ► is wonderful because they list them on the screen right when you're setting them. It

00:07:48 ◼   ► has a little countdown which I enjoy when you're 10 seconds and the time is set and

00:07:52 ◼   ► off a little countdown pops up on the screen which is good because it catches your attention

00:07:56 ◼   ► so you can kind of start getting prepared to do the next thing and you know like if

00:08:01 ◼   ► you especially if you're cooking and really like the Echo has been a kitchen assistant

00:08:06 ◼   ► for us for basically its entire life and we use it for these things every single day right

00:08:11 ◼   ► because we actually cook, cook from scratch meals every day. I know that everybody does

00:08:19 ◼   ► that and that's just no judgment, it's just a thing that we like to do. We take a bunch

00:08:23 ◼   ► of ingredients and we make a meal out of them.

00:08:26 ◼   ► You know how people cook otherwise? Is there another way?

00:08:29 ◼   ► From frozen meals or ready meals.

00:08:31 ◼   ► No, don't do that.

00:08:33 ◼   ► People can do that. I understand that it's okay for people to do that. But we cook with

00:08:39 ◼   ► real recipes every day, right? Like it's just like a thing that we do at home and we like to do that.

00:08:44 ◼   ► So there are lots of uses for timers and stuff like that and I know that people seem to really

00:08:51 ◼   ► talk about the timer thing as like it's like this be all end all of a smart assistant device.

00:08:56 ◼   ► But sometimes it is a very important thing. I have never found myself to be completely satisfied

00:09:02 ◼   ► even with the multiple timers on the HomePod. I find Siri to just not have that stuff nailed

00:09:07 ◼   ► down as well. Sometimes it wants to set reminders and it just doesn't work very well for me.

00:09:12 ◼   ► I have not been very happy with that. But the Echo does a fantastic job of it. And I

00:09:18 ◼   ► also like, I've spoken about the grocery app that we use, or like the grocery service that

00:09:24 ◼   ► we use has an Echo skill. And because it's on the show, what I like is when you say like,

00:09:30 ◼   ► "Hey, order me table salt or whatever." It will pop up an image of the thing it's adding

00:09:36 ◼   ► to the cart which is just a nice additional thing to have. So you could be like "oh yeah

00:09:41 ◼   ► that is the one that I buy" so I like that. I enjoy the digital photo frame thing, it's

00:09:46 ◼   ► just a nice addition. But here's one of the big things about the Echo Show and I think

00:09:50 ◼   ► it's one of the ways that people have struggled with it in the past that I kind of realised

00:09:57 ◼   ► quite quickly. It's not to think of it as a touch screen device, it is a voice assistant

00:10:02 ◼   ► that has a screen. And I know that that maybe sounds pretty simplistic, but if you try and

00:10:07 ◼   ► use that thing like an iPad, you will be really upset because the touch screen is not responsive.

00:10:12 ◼   ► It is not a very responsive device. Like, I feel like I'm doing things to it and I'm

00:10:17 ◼   ► swiping and I don't know what it thinks I'm doing or not doing, but it's not acting the

00:10:21 ◼   ► way that I expect. But to think of this device as something that is like touch first is wrong

00:10:29 ◼   ► anyway. It's like it is a voice assistant for me still that also provides visual aid

00:10:36 ◼   ► and I really like it for that. So to try and use it as little as possible as a touchscreen device

00:10:41 ◼   ► is actually a better way to use this thing and I think people will be happier with it overall.

00:10:47 ◼   ► Like it has a web browser built in right and so now when we want to get recipes up we use the

00:10:51 ◼   ► the web browser. The web browser sucks, but it's serving its purpose, right? Because now

00:10:58 ◼   ► it is like just the one thing that we have to have in the kitchen. Because I was never

00:11:02 ◼   ► happy with the kitchen iPad situation. It just never really worked the way that I wanted

00:11:07 ◼   ► to because it had to be signed into someone's iCloud account, which is just like not what

00:11:12 ◼   ► I wanted. And then you have to like disable a bunch of stuff and it was too much going

00:11:18 ◼   ► on but I really like the Echo Show for that right like we can bring up some recipes we

00:11:23 ◼   ► can just leave the recipes open as tabs right and you can just click through to our favorite

00:11:27 ◼   ► recipes in little tabs and that's it and that's done and that works but I really like just

00:11:32 ◼   ► kind of the overall assistant with a screen thing I actually think that and if you think

00:11:41 ◼   ► of it in that mode of like I'm still going to speak to this but it's going to show me

00:11:44 ◼   ► some stuff sometimes. I actually am a fan of this product. I think that it's really

00:11:49 ◼   ► cool. So where is this placed in your kitchen? On top of my microwave. Hmm. Okay. Interesting.

00:11:58 ◼   ► I'm sure that could be a problem but we use the microwave maybe three times a year. I

00:12:04 ◼   ► actually don't even know why we still have it. But a microwave feels like one of those

00:12:07 ◼   ► things that is in the kitchen and when you don't have one you're just really mad, right?

00:12:13 ◼   ► this is like, well now what am I going to do? I need a microwave.

00:12:16 ◼   ► So we have a microwave.

00:12:17 ◼   ► I don't know. I don't have one.

00:12:18 ◼   ► We used to use one a lot more, but we don't anymore. I, if for example, if there is another

00:12:25 ◼   ► kitchen appliance that we want to purchase and we need the space, I'll get rid of the

00:12:29 ◼   ► microwave. But right now we don't, we don't need the space on the counter. Like we're

00:12:35 ◼   ► good. But it's there if ever we need it. But yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a fan of it. I, I don't

00:12:39 ◼   ► I don't know if I'd recommend it to everyone, but I do really like it.

00:12:46 ◼   ► I would like to have a HomePod with the screen.

00:12:50 ◼   ► I struggle to imagine a scenario where we're going back to having two assistants in the

00:12:56 ◼   ► home.

00:12:57 ◼   ► Yeah, I think that's more of the point that I'm trying to make, honestly.

00:13:02 ◼   ► These devices are great, these voice-based devices, but screens on them are really useful

00:13:09 ◼   ► because it can help give you more information.

00:13:14 ◼   ► When I ask for the weather now, it tells me today, but it also shows me tomorrow.

00:13:21 ◼   ► So if I can see it, I can get more information out of it, but I don't have to, and then

00:13:26 ◼   ► it's not overburdening me with information that I'm not asking for.

00:13:32 ◼   ► It's like, oh, you know what? I like that.

00:13:34 ◼   ► Or like, I can see the date and time whenever I want it.

00:13:38 ◼   ► But if I ask for the time, it will just give me the time.

00:13:40 ◼   ► But if I'm close to it,

00:13:42 ◼   ► I can get an extra piece of information.

00:13:45 ◼   ► And that's kind of what I like.

00:13:46 ◼   ► It's like, when you're just conversing with it

00:13:49 ◼   ► or getting commands, it will do what you're asking it to.

00:13:53 ◼   ► But additional information exists for you if you want it.

00:13:56 ◼   ► And I actually quite like that.

00:13:58 ◼   ► It's a good balance, I think.

00:14:00 ◼   ► Yeah, this multiplicity of form factors is one of the great advantages of the Echo platform.

00:14:08 ◼   ► Yeah, you can get any of them. You can get a speaker.

00:14:10 ◼   ► Yeah, you get big screen, small screen, medium screen, right? Like they have two sizes of Echo

00:14:15 ◼   ► Show. You can get the little circular one or you can get like three sizes of just the voice one,

00:14:21 ◼   ► right? Like, or you can get a clock that has it in or a microwave, right? Like,

00:14:26 ◼   ► That's why I like this platform, right? And also I think that the skills, I don't know how good they are, but I like that so many com- like we just got a new fan today.

00:14:37 ◼   ► Um, I, about three years ago we got one of the Dyson hot and cool fans.

00:14:43 ◼   ► Um, so like it's a fan but it's also a heater.

00:14:47 ◼   ► And we are entering a horrific heatwave here in the United Kingdom.

00:14:51 ◼   ► Um, it is gonna be 37 degrees Celsius tomorrow.

00:14:55 ◼   ► Yeah it was 37°C here today. But you've been here in that kind of heat, you know we're not built for it.

00:15:02 ◼   ► Yeah, we're not. So that's like, it's gonna be about 99°C Fahrenheit. So like the UK

00:15:10 ◼   ► cannot cope with it. So we got, I've had my eye on one of these, another fan that Thyssen makes for

00:15:17 ◼   ► a while and I've been putting some money aside for it because it is not cheap but it is also

00:15:23 ◼   ► a humidifier as well it's called like the hot cool pure link or something like it's a crazy name but

00:15:32 ◼   ► it has um it has like smart assistant support including shortcuts which i was really surprised

00:15:39 ◼   ► about it's not a homekit product but it is a uh they do have shortcut support which so i can i've

00:15:48 ◼   ► set it up with siri as well already well i just looked it up for you and i just want to let you

00:15:52 ◼   ► you know that Homebridge has a native Dyson link package that you could use.

00:15:58 ◼   ► I'm not just saying. I'm not surprised. But the the the shortcut support very good.

00:16:04 ◼   ► Right. So you go into a specific view. So you go into the app and it shows you all of

00:16:10 ◼   ► the controls and you select a custom set of controls. So like I want it to be called at

00:16:17 ◼   ► level 7 with the air purifier on and rotating 45 degrees and then you save a shortcut with

00:16:24 ◼   ► all those settings.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Oh nice.

00:16:26 ◼   ► So like it's very cool but they have an echo skill and you can natively ask for all of

00:16:34 ◼   ► that stuff with the echo skill right like I don't need to set it up like I do with shortcuts

00:16:40 ◼   ► like I can just say hey turn the air purifier on and it works I don't have to do it beforehand

00:16:45 ◼   ► where it's not built that way because I don't even know if they can be a home kit product

00:16:50 ◼   ► I have no idea but yeah. I love Dyson products man. Yeah me too and we've been keeping an

00:16:59 ◼   ► eye on the fan for a while. We're probably going to upgrade to the V11 vacuum. Oh those

00:17:07 ◼   ► vacuums are the best the ones that you hand. We have like the V8 or something. Yeah. The

00:17:12 ◼   ► animal it's called. We have the Animal Pro as well. Yeah they're really, I love Dyson

00:17:17 ◼   ► products they're really well made. Yeah and they're opening a Dyson store just in the

00:17:25 ◼   ► mall that's five minutes away from my house. There's a they have a coming soon signage

00:17:30 ◼   ► going up. There's gonna be a Dyson store. I don't know if you need a Dyson store. I

00:17:34 ◼   ► don't think people need that. No, no but it's I think it's gonna be fun and sort of as a

00:17:38 ◼   ► a showroom to try things. We also got, and this is totally a tangent here, but we got

00:17:44 ◼   ► a Mi store, so there would be a Xiaomi store here in Rome. And you know, I spent 10 minutes

00:17:53 ◼   ► just browsing around, and of course the smartphones are totally copycats of iPhones and other

00:17:59 ◼   ► Android devices. But the smart home stuff is really impressive and it's quite cheap.

00:18:06 ◼   ► I'm pretty sure you told this exact story last week.

00:18:09 ◼   ► It's possible, it's very possible.

00:18:12 ◼   ► But I went again, I went in again and I spent more time in the store.

00:18:16 ◼   ► I have a new story, I went back!

00:18:18 ◼   ► I went back because I told Sylvia, look I gotta go back and spend more time looking at, you know, toothbrushes and towels.

00:18:25 ◼   ► And they have a lot of options and I was keeping an eye on the sensor.

00:18:30 ◼   ► Do they have any of the phones with like the pop-out cameras and stuff in there?

00:18:33 ◼   ► Yeah I think so but it didn't play.

00:18:35 ◼   ► Out of principle I didn't play around with the phones, because I think they're too similar to other phones.

00:18:42 ◼   ► But the smart home stuff is really impressive, so I went back and spent more time into the Xiaomi store.

00:18:49 ◼   ► And last week it was sort of a teaser, because I only spent two minutes.

00:18:55 ◼   ► This time I actually spent a lot of time, but you know, what I did was I-

00:18:57 ◼   ► I want you to go back there again and play with the phones.

00:19:02 ◼   ► No, okay. I'll probably go back a third time.

00:19:03 ◼   ► They have some crazy technology in their phones, right?

00:19:06 ◼   ► They have like the pop out cameras and stuff like that.

00:19:09 ◼   ► And the in-screen fingerprint readers and all that nonsense.

00:19:12 ◼   ► And they also if you ever heard of the Pocophone.

00:19:14 ◼   ► I think I have.

00:19:18 ◼   ► Yeah, they make it to Xiaomi make the Pocophone, too.

00:19:20 ◼   ► And that's that's like this phone that is like it's super cheap,

00:19:24 ◼   ► but super high spec'd and like everyone loves it.

00:19:27 ◼   ► What I did, though, I have a confession.

00:19:30 ◼   ► I went to the Xiaomi store and I checked out the,

00:19:33 ◼   ► you know Xiaomi make these um they have a separate smartphone smart home accessory line called Acara

00:19:41 ◼   ► and it was the the those those Acara sensors so they have like a home hub they have a window and

00:19:51 ◼   ► door contact sensors they have motion sensors they only had a full like sort of a starter kit

00:19:59 ◼   ► at the store and it was quite expensive. So what I did I ended up buying the same devices

00:20:04 ◼   ► or cheaper on Amazon. So I'm sorry Xiaomi store but I only used you to actually check out the

00:20:13 ◼   ► products in real life but then I used Amazon. Were they cheaper on Amazon? They were, they were.

00:20:20 ◼   ► Okay. Yeah they were cheaper. Wow the Akara website is not in even a little bit in English.

00:20:27 ◼   ► You can use the app in English, but it's bad English.

00:20:30 ◼   ► Oh, there we go. I found the English version, I think.

00:20:32 ◼   ► Yeah. I've been looking it up via...

00:20:34 ◼   ► It's not even Homebridge, actually.

00:20:36 ◼   ► The Acara Hub supports a HomeKit natively.

00:20:41 ◼   ► It's one of the only security systems that shows up as an actual security system in the Home app.

00:20:48 ◼   ► I think only three of them exist, maybe.

00:20:52 ◼   ► Another one is the Honeywell Lyric Controller, which is an actual alarm system that you gotta get installed by a technician.

00:21:00 ◼   ► So did you get the door and window sensor? Is that what you're talking about?

00:21:04 ◼   ► That one and the hub, the Acara hub, which serves as a security system.

00:21:10 ◼   ► It's the screenshot that I sent you yesterday in my message, showing the siren gnome kit.

00:21:15 ◼   ► So you can connect other smart devices to this one?

00:21:20 ◼   ► So you can, it's fun because the hub shows up in HomeKit,

00:21:25 ◼   ► but for the hub to be triggered,

00:21:29 ◼   ► it's gotta be associated with sensors.

00:21:31 ◼   ► So motion sensors or contact sensors.

00:21:34 ◼   ► I got a contact one and those sensors

00:21:38 ◼   ► are not HomeKit compatible.

00:21:40 ◼   ► They use Zigbee as a protocol.

00:21:44 ◼   ► But it doesn't matter because you set it up

00:21:47 ◼   ► in the Acara app and then in HomeKit you only see the hub.

00:21:52 ◼   ► - That is a smart way to build a system.

00:21:57 ◼   ► - So HomeKit only gets the hub, but it doesn't matter

00:22:00 ◼   ► because all you need to care about is whether

00:22:02 ◼   ► the system gets triggered and the connections you can manage

00:22:07 ◼   ► from the Acara app, HomeKit only needs to know,

00:22:10 ◼   ► do you have a security system?

00:22:11 ◼   ► Is it armed?

00:22:12 ◼   ► Is it disarmed?

00:22:14 ◼   ► And--

00:22:15 ◼   ► - But then what can you do in the home app though?

00:22:18 ◼   ► - Well, you can arm and disarm your security system.

00:22:22 ◼   ► - Right.

00:22:23 ◼   ► - And you can use it for automation.

00:22:26 ◼   ► So you can do things like when my security system

00:22:29 ◼   ► arms or disarms or which is I guess the trigger

00:22:33 ◼   ► that most people will use.

00:22:35 ◼   ► When my security system is triggered, do something

00:22:38 ◼   ► and you can connect any kind of accessories you want

00:22:42 ◼   ► or you can run a shortcut,

00:22:44 ◼   ► which is another thing that we can talk about.

00:22:46 ◼   ► But yeah, this is-

00:22:48 ◼   ► - Wait, so when you're...

00:22:49 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:22:51 ◼   ► So somebody breaks into your home.

00:22:53 ◼   ► - I don't wanna get into the details.

00:22:55 ◼   ► I don't wanna give, I don't know.

00:22:56 ◼   ► - No, I know.

00:22:57 ◼   ► I don't need the details. - Burglars, no.

00:22:58 ◼   ► - I don't need the details,

00:22:59 ◼   ► but I just wanna get just from a basic perspective.

00:23:01 ◼   ► When somebody breaks into your home-

00:23:02 ◼   ► - Trust me, you don't wanna try.

00:23:04 ◼   ► - It triggers a shortcut?

00:23:05 ◼   ► - Oh, it triggers a bunch of things.

00:23:08 ◼   ► - Of course, no, I just wanna know

00:23:09 ◼   ► if it triggers a shortcut,

00:23:10 ◼   ► 'cause that's the most very good thing.

00:23:12 ◼   ► I love that.

00:23:13 ◼   ► - Is that, it's gonna, you're gonna have,

00:23:16 ◼   ► if you try and break into now,

00:23:17 ◼   ► I set up a whole system myself entirely based on HomeKit,

00:23:22 ◼   ► including backup options for power.

00:23:26 ◼   ► Two things, one, your eardrums are gonna get destroyed,

00:23:33 ◼   ► and two, I am gonna get multiple levels

00:23:40 ◼   ► of notifications based on shortcuts

00:23:44 ◼   ► that my HomeKit hubs are running

00:23:46 ◼   ► because that's a feature in iOS,

00:23:49 ◼   ► iPadOS, TVOS 13, and macOS Catalina.

00:23:53 ◼   ► Multiple levels of notifications,

00:23:56 ◼   ► including pushover and including Twilio,

00:24:00 ◼   ► which sends me SMS, text messages.

00:24:03 ◼   ► So my HomeKit accessories are triggering

00:24:07 ◼   ► a native HomeKit automation that runs a shortcut.

00:24:11 ◼   ► I actually tweeted about this yesterday.

00:24:14 ◼   ► And on my phone, so multiple things will happen

00:24:19 ◼   ► to scare off people who try to break into my apartment.

00:24:24 ◼   ► And multiple people will be contacted

00:24:27 ◼   ► and I will get multiple notifications, yeah.

00:24:30 ◼   ► - That's crazy that the shortcuts thing

00:24:32 ◼   ► is already built into Catalina.

00:24:34 ◼   ► That was quite a good find from you.

00:24:36 ◼   ► Yeah, so we're gonna talk about it on App Stories on Monday, I think.

00:24:43 ◼   ► And there's a lot more details in that episode, but basically, the Home app, and not necessarily the Home app,

00:24:54 ◼   ► HomeKit hubs have a separate instance of shortcuts built in, which means that an automation that you set up in the Home app

00:25:05 ◼   ► the Home app, it can access a subset of Shortcuts actions

00:25:10 ◼   ► and run those actions independently from the Shortcuts app.

00:25:14 ◼   ► It's got the same editor.

00:25:15 ◼   ► - This looks janky as hell though.

00:25:17 ◼   ► - It's kind of difficult to wrap your head around,

00:25:21 ◼   ► but I think once you get it, it sort of clicks.

00:25:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah.

00:25:25 ◼   ► - It's like you can set up automations in Home, right?

00:25:28 ◼   ► That's always been possible.

00:25:30 ◼   ► Previously, you could only have accessories as actions.

00:25:34 ◼   ► Like if my motion sensor triggers, turn on the lights.

00:25:38 ◼   ► And the lights was the action.

00:25:41 ◼   ► Now an action can be a shortcut.

00:25:43 ◼   ► And to put together the shortcut,

00:25:45 ◼   ► you have the shortcuts editor into the Home app.

00:25:48 ◼   ► But because it's a separate instance,

00:25:52 ◼   ► you don't have access to all the actions

00:25:55 ◼   ► from the shortcuts app.

00:25:56 ◼   ► And why is that?

00:25:58 ◼   ► Because let's say that you're not at home

00:26:00 ◼   ► and your HomeKit, your home is managed by the Apple TV

00:26:05 ◼   ► that is used as a HomeKit hub.

00:26:08 ◼   ► Now your door opens and an automation is supposed to run

00:26:12 ◼   ► because you're not at home.

00:26:14 ◼   ► If you had a shortcut that had, I don't know,

00:26:17 ◼   ► choose from list as an action, how would that work?

00:26:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay. - Right?

00:26:21 ◼   ► So that's why HomeKit only has access

00:26:24 ◼   ► to a subset of actions.

00:26:26 ◼   ► But in those actions, you can make web requests.

00:26:30 ◼   ► you can talk to web APIs.

00:26:33 ◼   ► And that's what I've been doing

00:26:34 ◼   ► to send me custom notifications.

00:26:37 ◼   ► So when something happens,

00:26:39 ◼   ► accessories are controlled,

00:26:41 ◼   ► which was an existing feature,

00:26:42 ◼   ► but also,

00:26:43 ◼   ► shortcuts runs code effectively,

00:26:49 ◼   ► sending me notifications and contacting people,

00:26:51 ◼   ► sending text messages around

00:26:53 ◼   ► to make sure that I'm on the case.

00:26:57 ◼   ► - I wanted to ask you something real quick.

00:26:59 ◼   ► In iOS 13, can you add a shortcut that enables stuff into a scene?

00:27:05 ◼   ► Or is it just an automation?

00:27:07 ◼   ► Interesting question. Let me double check. I don't think it's possible yet.

00:27:12 ◼   ► I don't think it's possible in a scene.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Because I have a bedtime scene that just changes some of the lights.

00:27:18 ◼   ► And I would like to just add something in there.

00:27:21 ◼   ► I don't think it's possible with a scene, but at this point you should just make a shortcut.

00:27:26 ◼   ► Right?

00:27:27 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, I probably will.

00:27:29 ◼   ► That's probably what I'm going to do, because it's easy enough to just change that.

00:27:32 ◼   ► And I could do that now on Twil.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Especially because, but in shortcuts in iOS 13,

00:27:37 ◼   ► you can actually control HomeKit from shortcuts.

00:27:41 ◼   ► So it's also true the other way around.

00:27:44 ◼   ► So you have shortcuts inside of Home, but you also have Home inside of shortcuts.

00:27:48 ◼   ► So if you use the Control My Own action

00:27:53 ◼   ► to control accessories, to change, like you can change the color of the light inside of shortcuts.

00:28:00 ◼   ► What I want to do is, I can already do in shortcuts, which is turn one on, turn one off,

00:28:04 ◼   ► right, like that's a thing I can already do. Or I could just use a shortcut to enable the existing

00:28:11 ◼   ► scene and just give it a new name. Because what I want to do is then also turn on the fan,

00:28:16 ◼   ► which I can now do. But anyway, that's cool. All right, well, that was unexpected.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Smart home devices everybody.

00:28:24 ◼   ► It's a wild and wonderful time.

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00:30:01 ◼   ► I watched an MKBHD video a couple of days ago, as I do, as I want to watch all of them.

00:30:08 ◼   ► Continues to be one of my very favourite creators, just an absolute powerhouse.

00:30:12 ◼   ► Every single video is entertaining, I don't know how he does it but he does.

00:30:16 ◼   ► he did a video about the Royale Flexpie. It's like the only shipping foldable phone. It

00:30:23 ◼   ► was like the first one that anybody saw. It's like CES or Mobile World Congress or something

00:30:29 ◼   ► when all of the phones started like the foldable phone started popping out. I think it was

00:30:32 ◼   ► a Mobile World Congress. But you can now, it's possible to get one. Like it's not easy.

00:30:39 ◼   ► I think you have to import it from probably from China or Japan. I'm not sure where. But

00:30:44 ◼   ► possible to get one and he made a comment which I just wanted to touch on because it's

00:30:49 ◼   ► something that I have felt for a long time and I was pleased to see Marquez say it too.

00:30:55 ◼   ► Screen on the outside is not the way to go and that's what the Royal Flexpie is and everybody

00:31:00 ◼   ► was really excited about the Huawei Mate X right because they were like oh that's what

00:31:04 ◼   ► you want like the maximum screen and it falls on the outside. This is called mountain fold

00:31:10 ◼   ► in origami by the way there's something somebody wrote this wrote into me ages ago to suggest

00:31:14 ◼   ► which is good, as a way to try and describe where the screen goes.

00:31:17 ◼   ► Mountain?

00:31:18 ◼   ► Mountain fold.

00:31:19 ◼   ► So, mountain fold.

00:31:20 ◼   ► If you imagine a mountain, right, so you've got like a peak, the screen is on the outside,

00:31:25 ◼   ► the face is on the outside of a mountain, right?

00:31:28 ◼   ► And if you think of a valley, so it goes down, that's when it closes up, right?

00:31:34 ◼   ► So a mountain, you close it one way, a valley, you close it the other way.

00:31:38 ◼   ► So a valley fold is like a book, right?

00:31:41 ◼   ► So like you close a book, right?

00:31:43 ◼   ► the content on the inside.

00:31:44 ◼   ► Well this is too many metaphors. What's a valley? What's a book?

00:31:48 ◼   ► Okay well it's called Valley Fold and Mountain Fold. They are the names of two types of folds.

00:31:51 ◼   ► Oh no, why are we using nicknames? Just say screen on the outside or screen on the inside.

00:31:55 ◼   ► No, no, no. It's not a nickname. This is a particular name of folding in origami. That's

00:32:01 ◼   ► what I'm telling you.

00:32:03 ◼   ► What's origami?

00:32:04 ◼   ► Do you not know what origami is?

00:32:06 ◼   ► I don't know what origami is and I don't know what origami is in the context of phones.

00:32:10 ◼   ► Okay, so origami...

00:32:11 ◼   ► - Just keep saying screen on the outside and screen on the inside. - No.

00:32:15 ◼   ► Because technically the Samsung Galaxy Fold has a screen on the outside.

00:32:23 ◼   ► Yeah. And it's not what you want?

00:32:27 ◼   ► But the screen's on the inside. You see? This is what I'm saying.

00:32:30 ◼   ► They have two screens. They have one on the outside and one on the inside.

00:32:32 ◼   ► But the foldable screen's on the inside. It is a valley fold.

00:32:36 ◼   ► Why is it a valley fold?

00:32:39 ◼   ► Right, so in origami, in origami, right, forget it, the screen on the outside.

00:32:47 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:32:48 ◼   ► Um, and so, but this is something that I've been assuming for a while and basically, uh,

00:32:54 ◼   ► my case says, as expected, it gets in the way more, it's more susceptible to damage if you have

00:33:00 ◼   ► the screen on the outside, you touch things accidentally and it has more creases. It has,

00:33:05 ◼   ► like this Royal Flexpie has two creases because it has to fold twice not once like around itself so

00:33:11 ◼   ► because if you imagine right if you're folding in it has one crease right in the middle but if you're folding

00:33:16 ◼   ► on the outside you've got you're going to have like two hinges that it has to go around because

00:33:21 ◼   ► none of these phones can fold completely flat so you have to like if you imagine like the spine of

00:33:26 ◼   ► a book right there's two folds on the spine of a book in most instances like in like a thick book

00:33:31 ◼   ► You've had a big hardcover book and you imagine the cover that goes around the outside of

00:33:35 ◼   ► it, it has two different folds in it and it's got a flat piece down the middle.

00:33:40 ◼   ► So it's like wings or whatever.

00:33:43 ◼   ► So yeah, just something to note, I just thought that it was an interesting point.

00:33:46 ◼   ► I was pleased to see that Marques has now been able to compare the two different types

00:33:52 ◼   ► of phone and of course, Huawei's phone could be better if it ever ships but it's still

00:33:58 ◼   ► going to suffer from at least the idea of that it's more susceptible for that screen

00:34:03 ◼   ► getting damaged when all of those screens are plastic, right? So they're not glass

00:34:09 ◼   ► because glass doesn't bend like that.

00:34:13 ◼   ► It turns out.

00:34:14 ◼   ► Turns out. Apple is apparently in advanced talks with Intel to purchase their modem chip

00:34:22 ◼   ► division. This was reported in a couple of outlets yesterday but I got a report from

00:34:26 ◼   ► the Wall Street Journal. This part of Intel's division that is being sold off would cover

00:34:32 ◼   ► a selection of patents and staff members and is currently valued at about a billion dollars.

00:34:39 ◼   ► It's expected that if a deal is to be done it will be announced next week. So some of

00:34:44 ◼   ► the interesting context for this is it's worth remembering Apple was supposedly in talks

00:34:49 ◼   ► with Intel to supply their modem chips for 5G and beyond, especially when Apple was having

00:34:54 ◼   ► all of the issues that they were having with Qualcomm when they were in court together.

00:34:58 ◼   ► And then you may remember the shocking settlement, right? Like while they were in court, one

00:35:03 ◼   ► day everybody just decided to settle. And Apple and Qualcomm settled their lawsuit,

00:35:09 ◼   ► Apple paid them a bunch of money and entered into a multi-year agreement for the supply

00:35:13 ◼   ► of the modem chips and for some patent cross-licensing. It was questioned at the time, like kind of

00:35:19 ◼   ► like why is this all happening? Like you felt like you could read the tea leaves and see

00:35:22 ◼   ► that it was either Apple decided that Intel wasn't good enough or Intel decided that they

00:35:28 ◼   ► just couldn't be bothered to do it anymore because Intel immediately said that they were

00:35:33 ◼   ► like shuttering this part of their business. So it was like a chicken and egg, right? Like

00:35:39 ◼   ► which was first? Did Intel decide they didn't want to do it or did Apple decide they were

00:35:43 ◼   ► going with Qualcomm? And it wasn't really known and I don't think we'll ever know. But

00:35:49 ◼   ► But you are in a point now where it seems like Apple will be picking up the scraps and

00:35:54 ◼   ► buying this from Intel. Which makes perfect sense when you think about it because ultimately

00:36:00 ◼   ► Apple does not want to be in this arrangement with Qualcomm but they're stuck because the

00:36:05 ◼   ► patents for these chips are owned by Intel and Qualcomm. So they can't really do anything

00:36:11 ◼   ► about it and Apple have done this before right? Like they bought was it Taiwan Semiconductor?

00:36:16 ◼   ► a bunch of stuff there and then they did a deal with ARM and then they were good to go.

00:36:21 ◼   ► And so now it may be a case of they can pick up a bunch of technology, a bunch of patents

00:36:25 ◼   ► from Intel, they now have that deal with Qualcomm and then within a few years time they can

00:36:29 ◼   ► start making their own chips. But with Intel they also have the leg up of these are a bunch

00:36:35 ◼   ► of people that have been doing this stuff for a while.

00:36:38 ◼   ► And it wouldn't surprise me because Apple is the kind of company that likes to control

00:36:43 ◼   ► the components and especially the important ones like the system on a chip and in this

00:36:49 ◼   ► case the modem.

00:36:50 ◼   ► Especially when modems are becoming increasingly more important again with 5G, right?

00:36:55 ◼   ► Exactly.

00:36:56 ◼   ► They're not the kind of company that likes to depend on other companies for these critical

00:37:01 ◼   ► components and so it would be in complete Apple style to say four, five years we're

00:37:10 ◼   ► actually making our own modems for 5G. And I think this was even even afterwards Qualcomm

00:37:16 ◼   ► stuff right and I think especially after the Qualcomm stuff everybody was just like assuming

00:37:20 ◼   ► like oh they're gonna make their own at some point but isn't it even easier when you buy

00:37:24 ◼   ► Intel's modem division to then go about making your own 5G chips so. Yeah and we're probably

00:37:33 ◼   ► gonna get a 5G iPhone in 2020 according to rumors. You guys in the UK already have 5G

00:37:43 ◼   ► turned on right? Yeah, we do as well in Italy in select cities. I think Rome is part of

00:37:49 ◼   ► the initial rollout. And I have some friends who are buying or considering at least these

00:37:56 ◼   ► 5G Android phones. I don't think those are gonna go super well. I remember the first

00:38:01 ◼   ► 4G Android phones and how the battery would last like three hours at most and they will

00:38:08 ◼   ► get super hot and I think the same is going to happen with 5G.

00:38:12 ◼   ► So I don't know, 5G, iPhone in 2020?

00:38:16 ◼   ► Probably.

00:38:17 ◼   ► Still feels a little too early for me but I don't know.

00:38:20 ◼   ► John Voorhees provided follow up, it was PA Semiconductor that they bought, not Taiwan

00:38:25 ◼   ► Semiconductor.

00:38:26 ◼   ► 2020 is fine because all of Apple's main competitors have 5G phones shipping this year.

00:38:34 ◼   ► So I think 2020 is fine for that. I think that 5G is something that Apple can put in even just one

00:38:44 ◼   ► phone, right? They can just like a lot of other companies are doing. It would not surprise me.

00:38:48 ◼   ► I think that this is just one of those technologies that they need to jump on sooner rather than later

00:38:54 ◼   ► like it's because people are going to be very excited about this.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And also it could also lend into their plans, right?

00:39:02 ◼   ► Like there's a lot of stuff about 5G which is not just as simple as faster download speeds.

00:39:09 ◼   ► There's like a lot of stuff around like latency and things like that

00:39:12 ◼   ► and how important that can be for AI stuff and self-driving and AR and all that kind of stuff.

00:39:19 ◼   ► And if that's Apple's plans over the next couple of years trying to get

00:39:22 ◼   ► this stuff out in their phones and shipping sooner rather than later will be of a benefit to them.

00:39:26 ◼   ► Yeah. There was a Kickstarter campaign launched in the last couple of days that lots of people

00:39:33 ◼   ► have been sending to us for good reason. It's called the Magic Dock and it is a kind of

00:39:39 ◼   ► pro-focused iPad dock. It is a Surface style, Surface Studio style hinge so it has a base

00:39:47 ◼   ► and one of those arms that can kind of be articulated all the way down and you can

00:39:51 ◼   ► kind of move the iPad around to face you in different orientations. You can do it in portrait

00:39:56 ◼   ► and landscape. It has some built-in I/O so you can plug it into the USB-C port and you get a headphone

00:40:03 ◼   ► jack, a USB-C, regular USB and HDMI port in the back of it. What do you think?

00:40:14 ◼   ► Well, in terms of the product itself there's a lot of details that I would like to confirm.

00:40:21 ◼   ► So let me say first of all that I am intrigued by this product. I think it's, you know, I love

00:40:28 ◼   ► the Surface Studio for, you know, sort of to use as a drafting table type of device. I love that idea.

00:40:35 ◼   ► I'm not so sure about whether a 12.9 inch iPad Pro would have the same effect of a Surface Studio and

00:40:44 ◼   ► I am thinking about my usage of the iPad Pro and how I look at the screen.

00:40:49 ◼   ► I know that I would have a keyboard in front of this device if I were to type, you know, an article.

00:40:54 ◼   ► But then from the judging from the photos it doesn't feel like it's tall enough for to avoid

00:41:02 ◼   ► neck strain and it feels like you know it wouldn't keep the iPad at an elevation that would allow me

00:41:10 ◼   ► to not look down and so yes not to keep my neck down and that if I do that for a

00:41:16 ◼   ► couple of hours I'm gonna feel it in my shoulders I'm gonna feel it in my neck

00:41:20 ◼   ► it's not good for me and I think you have the same problem Myke yeah that's

00:41:24 ◼   ► why I have found the one true stand for the iPad which is the clear look stand

00:41:30 ◼   ► yeah which is taller bonkers how high it gets so I can I can have my iPad

00:41:36 ◼   ► at eye height now on a desk.

00:41:39 ◼   ► - That's what you want, exactly.

00:41:40 ◼   ► So in terms of the angle and the height,

00:41:44 ◼   ► I'm not sure about it.

00:41:46 ◼   ► I like the idea of the base integrates with the iPad.

00:41:51 ◼   ► It doesn't require you to like open a hinge.

00:41:55 ◼   ► You just place it, connect it via USB-C.

00:41:58 ◼   ► There's a connector on the side that communicates

00:42:01 ◼   ► with the actual hub, which is in the foot of the stand.

00:42:04 ◼   ► So it's a clever design.

00:42:06 ◼   ► I'm just concerned about the height.

00:42:07 ◼   ► I would like to know, however, more details and numbers

00:42:12 ◼   ► about the types of connections being used.

00:42:14 ◼   ► I looked on the Kickstarter campaign page,

00:42:17 ◼   ► couldn't find any details on power delivery.

00:42:19 ◼   ► - Yeah, we both spent some time

00:42:20 ◼   ► like looking through all of it

00:42:22 ◼   ► and couldn't find anything that kind of said that stuff,

00:42:25 ◼   ► which you are a big fan of these high-speed specs.

00:42:28 ◼   ► - Well, I liked, sure,

00:42:31 ◼   ► especially now that I'm using the iPad Pro,

00:42:33 ◼   ► for example, to record podcasts,

00:42:34 ◼   ► and later when I want to transfer a file,

00:42:37 ◼   ► the faster it is, the happier I am.

00:42:40 ◼   ► So I would like to know power delivery.

00:42:42 ◼   ► I would like to know,

00:42:43 ◼   ► and I am assuming because they mentioned USB 3.0.

00:42:47 ◼   ► - Is that super speed?

00:42:48 ◼   ► - It's not super speed.

00:42:49 ◼   ► It's the old spec

00:42:50 ◼   ► and that's gonna be five gigabit per second at best.

00:42:53 ◼   ► But I also, you know, I'm keeping an eye on this Sony hub,

00:42:58 ◼   ► which is, it sounds like the ultimate USB-C hub.

00:43:02 ◼   ► It's gonna do 4K at 60.

00:43:04 ◼   ► It's gonna do USB 3.1 Gen 2 speeds,

00:43:08 ◼   ► so that's 10 gigabit per second.

00:43:10 ◼   ► It's the kind of hub that nobody has made yet.

00:43:13 ◼   ► And it sounds like the accessory of my dreams

00:43:17 ◼   ► and it's also gonna support the ultra high speed

00:43:21 ◼   ► to SD cards, which are super fast.

00:43:24 ◼   ► No existing USB-C hub as all the specs that Sony promised.

00:43:30 ◼   ► - Jack, should I read those specs?

00:43:32 ◼   ► I've got it here. - Yes, please.

00:43:34 ◼   ► It's a HDMI port for video with 4K support at 30 frames per second.

00:43:38 ◼   ► USB-C power delivery port for power up to 100 watts.

00:43:43 ◼   ► USB-C and USB-A port for external devices, both rated at 3.1 Gen 2.

00:43:49 ◼   ► Sony says that the specification makes it the hub, the fastest on the market with transfer

00:43:53 ◼   ► speeds of up to 1000 megabytes a second at least for USB-C. And it has SD card and micro

00:43:59 ◼   ► SD card too.

00:44:00 ◼   ► That's coming from the Verge.

00:44:01 ◼   ► So 4K at 30, not 4K at 60, but otherwise it's got power delivery and it's got USB-C 3.1 Gen2

00:44:08 ◼   ► and the faster SD cards, which is exactly what I want.

00:44:11 ◼   ► And I kind of love, you know, it's got the classic Sony design.

00:44:14 ◼   ► It's very Sony.

00:44:15 ◼   ► It's a very, you know, as the owner of Sony Walkman in 2019, I sure appreciate that kind of classic Sony design.

00:44:23 ◼   ► So this magic dock, I like the idea, not sure about specs, not sure about the height,

00:44:29 ◼   ► the height, not sure about the fact that it's a Kickstarter campaign from a... seems

00:44:34 ◼   ► like a new company that has never done a Kickstarter before. So you know what's

00:44:40 ◼   ► gonna happen? The release date is gonna slip by several months because it always

00:44:43 ◼   ► happens. It's almost statistically impossible for a Kickstarter or hardware

00:44:49 ◼   ► from a new company to meet its promised deadline.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Yeah, they say in October which again like we don't know anything about this

00:44:58 ◼   ► company of the individual, whose name is Steve Warren, who is working on this project. And

00:45:03 ◼   ► they may know exactly what they're doing. But I have very close relationships with lots

00:45:10 ◼   ► of people that do this stuff all the time, right? Like, I have a podcast that I do with

00:45:15 ◼   ► Studio Neat. And if anything Studio Neat knows, it's how to make products. Or like, or the

00:45:21 ◼   ► Pan Addict with Brad, right? Like, these are people that do, that they know how to make

00:45:26 ◼   ► products that they make and they struggle to meet their deadlines constantly because

00:45:31 ◼   ► things happen. I now know this in trying to manufacture things myself, right? Like even

00:45:36 ◼   ► just paper goods. It's like, oh, but it got stuck in customs for three weeks. So yeah,

00:45:42 ◼   ► I just, you know, I hope that this person can fulfill by October, but October seems

00:45:47 ◼   ► really close for a product like this.

00:45:49 ◼   ► Especially because you have, it's not just a stand, it's a stand with IO. So you've got

00:45:55 ◼   ► you got different kinds of components to manufacture.

00:45:59 ◼   ► It's not just, it's electronics.

00:46:01 ◼   ► It's not just a piece of metal that can rotate.

00:46:04 ◼   ► It's a piece of metal that can rotate.

00:46:06 ◼   ► It's got magnets and it's got USB-C connections

00:46:09 ◼   ► and it's got a processor built in

00:46:12 ◼   ► to handle these kinds of connections.

00:46:14 ◼   ► So October is really close.

00:46:17 ◼   ► It's like two months away essentially.

00:46:20 ◼   ► So I don't know.

00:46:21 ◼   ► - By the time this thing finishes,

00:46:22 ◼   ► yes, it will be two months away.

00:46:24 ◼   ► - Yeah, and something that just mentioned in the live chat,

00:46:29 ◼   ► the low goal of the campaign,

00:46:34 ◼   ► I'm always a little skeptical when I say,

00:46:38 ◼   ► "Why do you only need $10,000?"

00:46:41 ◼   ► So I don't know, this person, this company,

00:46:42 ◼   ► may know exactly what they're doing,

00:46:45 ◼   ► but of course, Kickstarter, being Kickstarter,

00:46:47 ◼   ► be mindful of the projects that you back

00:46:50 ◼   ► and the promises that you believe.

00:46:53 ◼   ► And this is true for all kinds of Kickstarter campaigns, nothing against the magic doc.

00:46:58 ◼   ► It's just something to keep in mind.

00:47:00 ◼   ► But overall, high level, the idea is intriguing.

00:47:05 ◼   ► I just would like to play with it first.

00:47:08 ◼   ► All right, today's episode is also brought to you by Pingdom.

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00:48:19 ◼   ► SolarWinds and their support of this show and all of Relay FM.

00:48:25 ◼   ► All the great product rumors, we've got three sets of product rumors coming from 9 to 5 Mac.

00:48:30 ◼   ► Can you tell me what a friend of the show Guilherme Rambeau has discovered about the

00:48:36 ◼   ► iPhone 11?

00:48:38 ◼   ► So the iPhone 11 sounds like the main feature is going to be this ultra wide lens.

00:48:45 ◼   ► they're adding a third lens to the back of the,

00:48:47 ◼   ► at least the, what's gonna be called the iPhone 11,

00:48:50 ◼   ► so what is now the 10S, gonna be 11,

00:48:54 ◼   ► not the 11R, which is gonna keep the dual lens configuration

00:48:58 ◼   ► but on the 11, we're gonna have this third lens

00:49:00 ◼   ► that will let you shoot ultra-wide pictures

00:49:02 ◼   ► and supposedly ultra-wide videos.

00:49:05 ◼   ► And in terms of software, because of course,

00:49:07 ◼   ► knowing Apple, you know there's gonna be new features

00:49:11 ◼   ► and new effects or new modifications

00:49:14 ◼   ► that you can apply to your photos.

00:49:15 ◼   ► And one of these functionalities is gonna be

00:49:18 ◼   ► what Rambo mentions as a smart frame,

00:49:22 ◼   ► which is a feature that I think Mark Gurman

00:49:25 ◼   ► originally mentioned, not with this exact name,

00:49:29 ◼   ► many months ago, when he said that the upcoming iPhones

00:49:33 ◼   ► in 2019 with the ultra-wide lens,

00:49:36 ◼   ► they were gonna have features to let you put back certain,

00:49:41 ◼   ► for example, people or details of a photo

00:49:46 ◼   ► to put them back after the fact.

00:49:49 ◼   ► - Or that maybe you could like change

00:49:53 ◼   ► some of the focal point, right?

00:49:54 ◼   ► Like maybe you wanna shift the image over a little bit,

00:49:57 ◼   ► right, like it's kind of interesting.

00:49:59 ◼   ► - Yeah, so the idea that when you take a picture,

00:50:03 ◼   ► that picture is not necessarily

00:50:05 ◼   ► what you need to end up with.

00:50:07 ◼   ► You can, thanks to the ultra wide,

00:50:09 ◼   ► Maybe you can recover details or subjects or people.

00:50:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, like imagine you've taken a family photo

00:50:16 ◼   ► and accidentally cut off Uncle Bob.

00:50:18 ◼   ► You can bring Uncle Bob back into the image

00:50:21 ◼   ► like by stretching out a little bit.

00:50:23 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:50:24 ◼   ► So it sounds very interesting to me, this feature.

00:50:29 ◼   ► It's sort of-

00:50:30 ◼   ► - It's a very Apple-y feature.

00:50:31 ◼   ► - It's a very Apple feature.

00:50:32 ◼   ► - And it's demo as well.

00:50:34 ◼   ► - Yes, and Rambo also mentions that,

00:50:37 ◼   ► It suggests that Apple is likely gonna take the approach

00:50:42 ◼   ► of this data that you can recover is only kept on device

00:50:47 ◼   ► for a few days or for a limited period of time.

00:50:50 ◼   ► And I sort of understand why, like, if this is a feature

00:50:54 ◼   ► that sort of lives in the background and is always enabled,

00:50:58 ◼   ► you wanna make sure that your device

00:51:02 ◼   ► has the information that you manually captured.

00:51:06 ◼   ► Like if you're taking a picture

00:51:08 ◼   ► and you're careful in framing the picture

00:51:11 ◼   ► and you don't think about the fact that,

00:51:13 ◼   ► oh, there's actually a lens

00:51:15 ◼   ► that is also capturing more things around the picture.

00:51:20 ◼   ► - Maybe you're taking a picture

00:51:21 ◼   ► and you're not fully dressed.

00:51:23 ◼   ► - Exactly.

00:51:24 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:51:25 ◼   ► - Right?

00:51:26 ◼   ► You don't want that there forever?

00:51:30 ◼   ► - Forever embedded in the photo, in the file.

00:51:34 ◼   ► So I understand why Apple may say,

00:51:37 ◼   ► we're gonna let you recover portions of a picture

00:51:42 ◼   ► that you didn't capture when you framed the original,

00:51:46 ◼   ► but we're gonna keep it on device for a few days.

00:51:49 ◼   ► Now, my question would be,

00:51:52 ◼   ► I assume that this data will not sync with iCloud.

00:51:54 ◼   ► It will be encrypted on device.

00:51:57 ◼   ► You can only recover it on your iPhone 11.

00:52:00 ◼   ► And there's probably gonna be some kind of counter,

00:52:02 ◼   ► some kind of, when you swipe up, maybe you will see,

00:52:05 ◼   ► the ultra, the smart frame is available

00:52:08 ◼   ► for seven more days. - Six days, yeah.

00:52:11 ◼   ► - Yeah, something like that.

00:52:12 ◼   ► - And like maybe with the option to clear it now.

00:52:15 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly. - Which would be nice.

00:52:17 ◼   ► - So it's gonna be interesting.

00:52:18 ◼   ► A new feature that Rambo mentions in the iPhone 11,

00:52:22 ◼   ► a new and improved Taptic Engine.

00:52:25 ◼   ► The Taptic Engine is the component

00:52:27 ◼   ► that allows your iPhone to play haptic feedback.

00:52:31 ◼   ► It's been around since the days of 3D Touch.

00:52:34 ◼   ► Ramo mentions that Apple is working on this Leap Haptics.

00:52:38 ◼   ► It's a code name for more advanced haptic feedback.

00:52:42 ◼   ► I think this is gonna go well with the new iOS API

00:52:46 ◼   ► for developers.

00:52:47 ◼   ► It's called Core Haptics.

00:52:49 ◼   ► This is a new feature of iOS 13,

00:52:51 ◼   ► which is already supported in the iPhone XS.

00:52:54 ◼   ► It allows developers to write

00:52:57 ◼   ► completely custom haptic feedback.

00:53:00 ◼   ► - Right, so in iOS 13, when iOS 13 ships,

00:53:04 ◼   ► this stuff can be in the current phones.

00:53:08 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:53:09 ◼   ► - This won't just be something for the new phones.

00:53:11 ◼   ► - No, it will be in the current phones.

00:53:14 ◼   ► I'm testing betas of apps that use

00:53:16 ◼   ► custom haptic interactions. - What is that like?

00:53:19 ◼   ► - That's like, so before developers could choose

00:53:22 ◼   ► from three types of haptic feedback.

00:53:25 ◼   ► They were called selection, notification, and something else.

00:53:30 ◼   ► And each version had like three layers

00:53:35 ◼   ► for a total, I think actually a total of seven combinations.

00:53:39 ◼   ► So before developers could choose

00:53:41 ◼   ► from seven total combinations of haptic feedback

00:53:44 ◼   ► on your phone.

00:53:45 ◼   ► With core haptics, you can write whatever you want.

00:53:49 ◼   ► And so for example, right now I'm testing a calculator

00:53:52 ◼   ► that has, it's not Pcalc, it's another one.

00:53:56 ◼   ► it has different layers of feedback,

00:54:01 ◼   ► depending whether you press the equal button

00:54:04 ◼   ► or the plus button, for example.

00:54:06 ◼   ► - Love that.

00:54:08 ◼   ► - You can feel it, especially--

00:54:10 ◼   ► - So you would get, if you were using it enough,

00:54:12 ◼   ► you would get used to it to the point where you're like,

00:54:13 ◼   ► "Oh, that wasn't the right button."

00:54:15 ◼   ► - Yes. - I like that a lot.

00:54:18 ◼   ► - Yes, it's gonna be really nice, but I mention this

00:54:20 ◼   ► because right now, this is supported in the iPhone XS,

00:54:24 ◼   ► But right now, due to how the Taptic Engine is designed

00:54:28 ◼   ► and placed inside the XS, you can feel with your hand

00:54:33 ◼   ► the feedback mostly toward the sides of the device

00:54:39 ◼   ► and the back of the device.

00:54:41 ◼   ► I wouldn't be surprised if this new Taptic Engine

00:54:43 ◼   ► lets you feel stuff right under the display,

00:54:46 ◼   ► even more prominently than before.

00:54:48 ◼   ► - Right, well that would make perfect sense though,

00:54:51 ◼   ► wouldn't it?

00:54:51 ◼   ► Like really, the Taptic Engine is 50% of 3D touch, right?

00:54:55 ◼   ► Like the other part is the layer in the screen.

00:54:58 ◼   ► But now if they're removing the layer in the screen,

00:55:01 ◼   ► the Taptic Engine has to do more of the work, right?

00:55:04 ◼   ► Like to provide this feeling,

00:55:06 ◼   ► which I guess is more like what is in like a track pad,

00:55:11 ◼   ► right?

00:55:11 ◼   ► Then, you know.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - Yeah, and I could see Apple saying

00:55:14 ◼   ► we have this new Taptic Engine,

00:55:17 ◼   ► and we also have new developer tools

00:55:19 ◼   ► that allows games or apps to have, you know, like different levels of sharpness, different levels of intensity

00:55:26 ◼   ► for this sort of true-to-life haptic feedback. I could totally see that and it's supported on the XS, but it's even better on the 11.

00:55:34 ◼   ► So, no USB-C. I'm kind of sad about this.

00:55:40 ◼   ► Yeah, but who was expecting it in this one? Really? Were you?

00:55:45 ◼   ► No, I was not, but I'm still sad. I would love to have a USB-C iPhone.

00:55:48 ◼   ► I think it's gonna happen, but I think we're years away still though.

00:55:52 ◼   ► Probably. No promotion display, so no 120Hz refresh rate.

00:55:59 ◼   ► We have this on the iPad, it looks glorious. I would love to have it on the phone.

00:56:05 ◼   ► More and more phones are getting it, so they're gonna have to do it at some point, I think.

00:56:09 ◼   ► They're gonna have to do it. Android phones are getting this. This is really awesome for games.

00:56:16 ◼   ► And again, I'm so used to it on the iPad Pro,

00:56:19 ◼   ► I would love to have it on the phone.

00:56:20 ◼   ► But we're gonna get,

00:56:22 ◼   ► and I guess a few people are gonna be happy about this,

00:56:25 ◼   ► slow-mo support for the front-facing cameras.

00:56:29 ◼   ► So you're gonna be able to do slow-motion selfies?

00:56:33 ◼   ► - I don't care about that,

00:56:34 ◼   ► I just want a better selfie camera.

00:56:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, me too.

00:56:37 ◼   ► So if this means a better selfie camera,

00:56:39 ◼   ► sure, give me slow-mo as well, why not?

00:56:41 ◼   ► - You would assume it probably does though, right?

00:56:42 ◼   ► Because otherwise the slow-mo video's gonna look terrible.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Because like slow-mo video doesn't look that great on the iPhone, right?

00:56:51 ◼   ► For like a bunch of reasons, right?

00:56:52 ◼   ► Like it's dark, it's not as high resolution, right?

00:56:55 ◼   ► So that's with like the excellent camera on the back.

00:56:59 ◼   ► They have to do at least something.

00:57:00 ◼   ► Imagine with the current.

00:57:01 ◼   ► Oh my god, you wouldn't see anything.

00:57:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I hope that that means that we're going to get some improvements to the selfie camera

00:57:08 ◼   ► as well because that's a much needed thing.

00:57:11 ◼   ► Yeah, but otherwise we're going to get the huge camera bump.

00:57:15 ◼   ► Let me ask you, because I feel like I have been seeing people on Twitter for the last

00:57:19 ◼   ► couple of weeks say "Oh this is an easy one to skip" etc etc.

00:57:23 ◼   ► What do you think about this?

00:57:25 ◼   ► I mean I'm not gonna skip it.

00:57:27 ◼   ► No but like are you gonna be mad about it?

00:57:29 ◼   ► I'm not asking if you're gonna skip it but like how what do you when you read this how

00:57:32 ◼   ► do you feel about it?

00:57:34 ◼   ► Well when I read if it's just this like a third camera and and Taptic Engine it's new

00:57:41 ◼   ► like it's not that exciting.

00:57:45 ◼   ► The third camera is enough for me to buy it.

00:57:48 ◼   ► Really?

00:57:49 ◼   ► Yeah, because I use the second camera all the time.

00:57:53 ◼   ► So having another camera is great.

00:57:56 ◼   ► Like I want the ultrawide like I've been talking about.

00:57:58 ◼   ► I really want an ultrawide camera.

00:58:00 ◼   ► I want that because it's like this is a feature that I see on other phones and I think it

00:58:04 ◼   ► looks really cool.

00:58:05 ◼   ► I would like it on my iPhone.

00:58:07 ◼   ► I want an ultrawide lens.

00:58:08 ◼   ► So like that is like for me, that's enough.

00:58:11 ◼   ► I use my camera quite a lot and I like to use my phone as a camera.

00:58:15 ◼   ► Like it's the only camera that I want and I want it to be the best camera that it can

00:58:19 ◼   ► be and I would like to have an ultra wide lens so I can take some different types of

00:58:23 ◼   ► photos.

00:58:25 ◼   ► I guess I'm still a bit disappointed by the XS camera that that prevents me from getting

00:58:33 ◼   ► too excited about camera changes.

00:58:36 ◼   ► Where I love the XS camera.

00:58:40 ◼   ► is just where me and you we differ. But you know and Tactic Engine fine that sounds great

00:58:46 ◼   ► it will be faster right like go for it and then I don't know what it will be outside

00:58:51 ◼   ► of that but I don't think I was expecting anything more than this though right like

00:58:57 ◼   ► I know it's like it's like another model but it seems like that the better one of the two

00:59:01 ◼   ► is going to be the second one right because it's when they're going to change some size

00:59:04 ◼   ► stuff so like the 11s or whatever but I just I feel like everyone's forgotten

00:59:10 ◼   ► what happened when the iPhone 6 came out like did you all forget that we went 6

00:59:17 ◼   ► 6s 7 did we get 7s or did it go to 8? We got to 8. Right but like there was

00:59:23 ◼   ► multiple years where there wasn't really a lot going on right like that I think

00:59:28 ◼   ► people remember the glory days of 1 2 3 4 5 6 right like every single solid

00:59:34 ◼   ► numbers a massive leap. But no, we've had more time with iteration in the iPhone line

00:59:40 ◼   ► than we have revolution, like at this point. Like, it was many many years where they made

00:59:46 ◼   ► very small changes to the phone. They would add like a feature and speed bumps, a feature

00:59:51 ◼   ► and speed bumps. And that was just how it was for a while.

00:59:53 ◼   ► Do you feel Apple can wait until 2021 for a completely new design?

00:59:58 ◼   ► I don't even think it'll be a completely new design in 2020 or 2021. I think we're

01:00:03 ◼   ► got this for a while. I would like to see it, maybe we get it in 2021, but if in 2020

01:00:09 ◼   ► we're going to have different sizes, if they don't change the design then, I can't imagine

01:00:13 ◼   ► them doing it the year after.

01:00:15 ◼   ► Hmm. Yeah, that's a good point.

01:00:20 ◼   ► It behooves them to keep the design the same for a long time, right? Like, from a product

01:00:25 ◼   ► design perspective, it must be much, much more easier for them. Especially, I mean,

01:00:30 ◼   ► I say especially if people keep buying them.

01:00:32 ◼   ► The problem is people aren't buying them as much.

01:00:34 ◼   ► And that might be a reason that they are.

01:00:36 ◼   ► I feel like if the 11s is the one where it's different sizes, that was a plan brought forward.

01:00:42 ◼   ► Right?

01:00:43 ◼   ► Because that just seems so strange.

01:00:46 ◼   ► So we'll see.

01:00:47 ◼   ► I mean, because they clearly have changed course in some areas, and that could be one

01:00:50 ◼   ► of them.

01:00:51 ◼   ► But do I think 2021?

01:00:52 ◼   ► Maybe, maybe I would love it.

01:00:54 ◼   ► It'd be great to have a new design, but I don't even really know what they would do

01:00:58 ◼   ► unless they do actually do something to get rid of Face ID.

01:01:03 ◼   ► Like I can't imagine a new design for a long time.

01:01:06 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just feel like the notch and those rounded edges,

01:01:11 ◼   ► they're starting to feel a little old,

01:01:13 ◼   ► especially when you look at other Android phones.

01:01:15 ◼   ► It was fine with the iPhone X,

01:01:18 ◼   ► but I feel like the competition has caught up very quickly

01:01:21 ◼   ► to that phone, more quickly than I was expecting.

01:01:24 ◼   ► And sure, Face ID is more advanced than other systems, but if you're an average consumer

01:01:31 ◼   ► you don't care about the millions of scans going on per second.

01:01:36 ◼   ► You just look at the phone that's cooler looking and possibly cheaper.

01:01:44 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:01:45 ◼   ► It feels like thinking about, "Do I want to keep the iPhone X design for another two years?"

01:01:51 ◼   ► meanwhile Android phone makers are making this truly edge-to-edge displays

01:01:56 ◼   ► with cameras embedded underneath the display and maybe even fingerprint

01:02:00 ◼   ► sensors. I mean that's super cool and instead I got the notch so I don't know.

01:02:07 ◼   ► There's some more rumors about the 16-inch MacBook Pro still coming in

01:02:14 ◼   ► October apparently. You know there's been a lot of question about this from

01:02:18 ◼   ► different rumours and then Apple revamping some laptops just a couple of weeks ago.

01:02:23 ◼   ► And apparently according to this new rumour coming from Economic Daily News via 9to5Mac,

01:02:31 ◼   ► it's going to ship alongside updates to the 13" MacBook Pro and the MacBook Air in October,

01:02:36 ◼   ► even though we got an update in July. It's surprising, but if one of the big things about

01:02:43 ◼   ► that new MacBook Pro is a new keyboard design. Apple would I'm sure be very motivated to

01:02:51 ◼   ► get that across the entire line as quickly as possible. A couple of other details, it's

01:02:57 ◼   ► a 3072 by 1920 LCD display which is bigger and there's like higher pixels and apparently

01:03:05 ◼   ► this is the thing that is kind of the newest piece of information apparently starting at

01:03:09 ◼   ► $3,000 making it a very pro model indeed which makes complete sense to me though.

01:03:15 ◼   ► Starting at $3,000.

01:03:18 ◼   ► The reason I say it makes sense to me is I think that this design doesn't replace the 15 right,

01:03:25 ◼   ► like it sits at the very top and it's super expensive because it's going to be super

01:03:29 ◼   ► different and super weird and super wonderful and Apple is apparently going to position it as like

01:03:37 ◼   ► kind of like in between the iMac and the iMac Pro, it's like a thing, right?

01:03:40 ◼   ► Like it's actually going to probably be a very much true pro laptop for a while, right?

01:03:47 ◼   ► Like in the way that the iMac Pro is expensive, the Mac Pro is expensive,

01:03:50 ◼   ► the MacBook Pro is about to become very expensive.

01:03:53 ◼   ► I would love to have a 16-inch iPad Pro, I'll tell you that.

01:03:58 ◼   ► Me too, me too.

01:04:00 ◼   ► But I'm curious to see if it actually replaces the 15-inch MacBook Pro,

01:04:06 ◼   ► or if Apple uses the 13 inch as the baseline and then it goes up to 16 inches, removing the 15 inch from the line up so that they can make more money

01:04:17 ◼   ► I've always thought that they would keep the 15, but the lack of rumors about an update to the 15 while people are talking about updates to the 13, right? At the same time makes me pause for thought on that one

01:04:27 ◼   ► But it would seem peculiar to me for them to only offer this really expensive one at $15.

01:04:33 ◼   ► But I guess we'll wait and see. What does it start at now? Let me find out.

01:04:37 ◼   ► I don't even know what the MacBook Pro starts at now on the $15.

01:04:41 ◼   ► I never even think about $15. $15 just feels like way too much laptop for me.

01:04:46 ◼   ► It starts at $2,300. $2,400.

01:04:51 ◼   ► Yeah, but you'd be adding $600 to the starting price.

01:04:54 ◼   ► Quite the jump, quite the jump, even for Apple standards.

01:04:58 ◼   ► Yeah, it may be that they just leave it there.

01:05:01 ◼   ► They don't put the new keyboard in it but you can still get the old one and they keep

01:05:04 ◼   ► it for a while but they also have a 16.

01:05:06 ◼   ► That might be what they do.

01:05:08 ◼   ► Sounds possible.

01:05:11 ◼   ► And also there's a small rumor that micro LED may come to the Apple Watch in 2020.

01:05:19 ◼   ► Micro LED screens basically would mean that they could have smaller components, they would

01:05:23 ◼   ► have longer battery life, less burn-in. Apple has apparently been trying to work on micro

01:05:28 ◼   ► LED for a while and in the same way that the first OLED screen was an Apple Watch, the first

01:05:35 ◼   ► micro LED screen would be an Apple Watch, the Apple Watch is the perfect kind of product

01:05:39 ◼   ► for screen technology I think for that. Smaller yield that they need, they sell less of them

01:05:45 ◼   ► than do an iPhone, it allows them to kind of I guess get their feet wet with a new technology.

01:05:52 ◼   ► sounds it sounds exactly like what they should do start testing the new

01:05:56 ◼   ► technology on the on the watch later bring it to the phone the iPads probably

01:06:02 ◼   ► never gonna get an OLED display at this point yeah that's true I hadn't thought of that

01:06:06 ◼   ► I wonder if the micro LED could because of the of the reduced battery

01:06:13 ◼   ► consumption and the burning effect is the key to finally get an always-on

01:06:18 ◼   ► on watch face. I wonder if this is the plan. Oh yeah maybe that's it.

01:06:23 ◼   ► OLED could do it but I understand why they might wait if this technology is

01:06:28 ◼   ► better for it. Yeah so it could be and it could be a pretty nice feature for a

01:06:33 ◼   ► future watch. Maybe that's the selling point of the 2020 watch. That's the selling point.

01:06:38 ◼   ► Good call. Yeah I don't know we'll see. Alright today's show is brought to you

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01:08:28 ◼   ► Do you want to tell me about your TV that you just bought?

01:08:32 ◼   ► Uh huh. Yeah, because I hate capitalism. I took advantage of Prime Day.

01:08:38 ◼   ► I swear I bought my Echo Show at Prime Day.

01:08:40 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. You know, I've seen...

01:08:43 ◼   ► And I don't mean to get political, but I've seen folks say, you know, boycott Prime Day and, you know, don't give your money to Amazon.

01:08:54 ◼   ► But, as all... If you know me, you know that one of the ways that I like to live my life is to pick my battles.

01:09:03 ◼   ► And this is one of the fights that I'm going to do other...

01:09:06 ◼   ► Jeff looks like he could throw down. Jeff would absolutely destroy me in a fight.

01:09:14 ◼   ► He would! He really would! He's savage too! Do you remember that like when he hired that

01:09:22 ◼   ► company like that whole thing? This is savage he can write a very upset letter

01:09:28 ◼   ► he's also is also very muscular and I bet that he has an army of killers both

01:09:34 ◼   ► humans and robots at his disposal. But in this case I understand why

01:09:41 ◼   ► some folks wanted to do an Amazon boycott for Prime Day. Look, I just

01:09:48 ◼   ► need a new television. Again, I'm not saying one way or the

01:09:53 ◼   ► other, but if you're gonna boycott them boycott them every day.

01:09:56 ◼   ► Prime Day is not any more or less worse than how the company is on an

01:10:01 ◼   ► average day, right? You know, we wouldn't want to spend a lot of money and we saved

01:10:08 ◼   ► the, you know, I looked on the, we ended up buying Samsung television for reasons

01:10:13 ◼   ► that I will explain shortly, but I looked on the Samsung website, I looked on other

01:10:18 ◼   ► Italian retailers websites and it was at least 250 euros more than the Prime Day

01:10:26 ◼   ► price tag so you know why not so we needed a new television for our small

01:10:34 ◼   ► kitchen slash living room space Myke you've been here you know it's very

01:10:38 ◼   ► small and we need to we wanted to try and make more room so we also bought a

01:10:44 ◼   ► new sofa we did a bunch of you know rethinking around that area and we

01:10:50 ◼   ► wanted to have a bigger television on the on the balcony outside so the plan

01:10:55 ◼   ► was we're gonna take our current TV from the living room, bring it outside, get rid of

01:11:00 ◼   ► the TV outside and buy a new TV for the kitchen. I knew that we wanted to get something in

01:11:09 ◼   ► 4K, but around the 40 to 43 inch size, which is not easy to find because 4K TVs arguably

01:11:19 ◼   ► make sense once you go beyond 15 50 inches but there are companies making 43 inches that

01:11:27 ◼   ► you know TV sets with 4k support I also knew that if possible I wanted to get a TV with

01:11:33 ◼   ► native Airplay 2 and HomeKit support now I started doing research around this and I only

01:11:40 ◼   ► had a few hours because we decided on Prime Day which actually lasted two days so it was

01:11:46 ◼   ► like prime days, not just 24 hours. Black Fridays are a week now though.

01:11:52 ◼   ► Yeah exactly. So I had just a day to the side and so I started doing research and it was

01:11:59 ◼   ► horrible. Like it was a terrible process of understanding which models actually of televisions

01:12:06 ◼   ► from which companies actually have Airplay 2 or HomeKit, which model numbers because they

01:12:15 ◼   ► change from the US to the EU and also whether the software update for Airplay 2 and Homekit

01:12:23 ◼   ► is actually already available or if it's just being promised by the manufacturer.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Because it's just starting to roll out on a bunch of TVs like now, right?

01:12:32 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, exactly. So my research, the results were that Homekit support is extremely rare to

01:12:41 ◼   ► find. I think actually tomorrow LG is going to be the first company to release a software

01:12:47 ◼   ► update that adds HomeKit and AirPlay 2 together. In browsing and reading articles all I could

01:12:55 ◼   ► find was that some TVs already had AirPlay 2 but no HomeKit. So I started doing more

01:13:03 ◼   ► research, filtering through the comments on Amazon and the reviews on Amazon and we ended

01:13:09 ◼   ► up finding this Samsung TV. It's the RU7400. It's a 43 inch 4K TV that has native AirPlay

01:13:19 ◼   ► 2 support. It's also printed on the box of the TV. It works with Apple AirPlay 2. It's

01:13:27 ◼   ► got an official badge. We got that one and I set it up and it worked right away and I

01:13:38 ◼   ► actually quite impressed. It works in a couple of ways. So this is one of the TVs that has the

01:13:43 ◼   ► built-in TV app from Apple, loaded into Tizen. I think it's the operating system for this one.

01:13:51 ◼   ► Yeah, it's Tizen. So it's got a TV app for the TV software. No need to actually buy an Apple TV

01:14:00 ◼   ► device and plug it into this television. And it works perfectly well. You're using the remote of

01:14:07 ◼   ► of the Samsung TV, which I actually prefer to the Apple TV remote,

01:14:11 ◼   ► you log into your Apple ID.

01:14:14 ◼   ► Apple actually has an authorized web page that lets you do this from Safari.

01:14:21 ◼   ► Oh, nice.

01:14:22 ◼   ► You don't need to type in your password.

01:14:25 ◼   ► It's very nice.

01:14:26 ◼   ► I was just a bit like, oh, and I'm not one of these types of people that gets

01:14:31 ◼   ► crazy about this stuff, but I don't really want to type in my Apple ID password

01:14:35 ◼   ► into anything other than an Apple device.

01:14:37 ◼   ► I was surprised by the existence,

01:14:39 ◼   ► I think it's autorise.apple.com or something like that.

01:14:43 ◼   ► So that was super easy.

01:14:44 ◼   ► And once I was logged in,

01:14:46 ◼   ► it picked up my episodes of The Office and Chernobyl

01:14:50 ◼   ► that I had in my Watch Now queue.

01:14:52 ◼   ► And it was just, it looks like the same app

01:14:56 ◼   ► on the Apple TV device, but it runs on my Samsung TV.

01:15:00 ◼   ► And it's totally acceptable and totally fine.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Of course, there are differences in terms of,

01:15:07 ◼   ► This is not an OLED TV and doesn't have Dolby Atmos.

01:15:12 ◼   ► It's got whatever Samsung calls HDR.

01:15:15 ◼   ► So I can--

01:15:17 ◼   ► - I think it's UHD, right?

01:15:18 ◼   ► - No, I think it's HDR10 maybe, something like that.

01:15:23 ◼   ► Yeah, I can tell the difference between this television

01:15:27 ◼   ► and the good one that we have in the bedroom.

01:15:30 ◼   ► You know, the LG TV with OLED and Dolby Atmos.

01:15:32 ◼   ► And Dolby Vision, sorry, Dolby Atmos is for audio.

01:15:35 ◼   ► their more expensive TVs have different grading?

01:15:39 ◼   ► Yeah, and like visually you can absolutely tell the difference, but it's fine.

01:15:43 ◼   ► We don't, we just need a TV, you know, here in the kitchen/shaving room to like to

01:15:50 ◼   ► watch the news or a TV show in Italian, you know, something super easy.

01:15:56 ◼   ► So that was fine, but otherwise the TV app is totally okay.

01:16:01 ◼   ► no comments there. Actually I appreciate the inclusion so I don't need to buy an

01:16:06 ◼   ► extra Apple TV 4k. Airplay 2 also works in Control Center so now I can stream

01:16:13 ◼   ► anything that I want to my TV whether it's music or video or a podcast. I just

01:16:18 ◼   ► need you know there's a new device in Control Center with it

01:16:23 ◼   ► it says kitchen TV and it's got the icon of a TV nice and it just works you

01:16:28 ◼   ► connect to it, you pair initially once, you need to type in a pin code and

01:16:33 ◼   ► that's it. Then you can connect to it like an Apple TV and it just works.

01:16:39 ◼   ► I, of course, you know me, I looked up immediately whether, before buying the TV,

01:16:49 ◼   ► whether it was gonna be possible to hook it up to Homebridge to use it as a HomeKit

01:16:54 ◼   ► device in addition to AirPlay. And of course I found the excellent

01:16:58 ◼   ► Samsung Tizen package for Homebridge. So now in addition to running my LG TV from 2017

01:17:04 ◼   ► via Homebridge, I also run this Samsung TV via Homebridge.

01:17:08 ◼   ► Setups was relatively...

01:17:11 ◼   ► I'm gonna give you some some follow-up from the chat room. So Samsung used HDR 10 but doesn't

01:17:16 ◼   ► have Dolby Vision. Atmos is the sound format.

01:17:19 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah. Atmos is the sound. Doesn't have Dolby Vision. It's called HDR 10 plus. Okay.

01:17:24 ◼   ► Yeah, thank you. So I configured the TV via Homebridge, I set up a few channels, and I actually need to issue a complaint here, Myke.

01:17:37 ◼   ► I haven't seen enough people get upset about this, except for Reddit, but then again people on Reddit are always upset, so they really don't count.

01:17:45 ◼   ► Have you opened, Michael, the Home app in iOS 13?

01:17:52 ◼   ► No.

01:17:53 ◼   ► Okay, so...

01:17:55 ◼   ► In iOS 13...

01:17:58 ◼   ► I'm trying to find a way to describe this on a podcast that makes sense.

01:18:03 ◼   ► Let's say that you have a temperature sensor, right?

01:18:08 ◼   ► That works with HomeKit.

01:18:10 ◼   ► Usually, those sensors, they let you know about the temperature

01:18:15 ◼   ► and, I don't know, humidity, right?

01:18:17 ◼   ► They have two data points.

01:18:19 ◼   ► In iOS 12 and before, it used to be that in the Home app,

01:18:24 ◼   ► you would get both data points

01:18:27 ◼   ► as two separate tiles in the Home app.

01:18:32 ◼   ► One would say 25 degrees, the other would say 60% humidity.

01:18:37 ◼   ► In iOS 13, data points for the same accessory

01:18:42 ◼   ► are grouped together, and you cannot see both data points

01:18:48 ◼   ► unless you long press on the tile and open a pop-up window.

01:18:53 ◼   ► - I can see why this has happened,

01:18:56 ◼   ► because it's like there's only one device.

01:18:59 ◼   ► - I understand that, I understand it's only one device.

01:19:02 ◼   ► - There maybe needs to be a way to show multiple pieces

01:19:05 ◼   ► of information in one tile.

01:19:07 ◼   ► - Or just give me an option to ungroup them,

01:19:11 ◼   ► because it's a slippery slope.

01:19:14 ◼   ► For example, I have a device that is both an alarm system,

01:19:18 ◼   ► it's a native HomeKit security system, and a light.

01:19:23 ◼   ► Like the same device is a light and a security system.

01:19:27 ◼   ► Now in the Home app, I have a thing that says alarm,

01:19:32 ◼   ► because I named it alarm, but then it says,

01:19:37 ◼   ► let me see because it really doesn't make any sense.

01:19:42 ◼   ► So let me see. Alarm, 50% brightness, because it's picking up the name. But it also thinks

01:19:51 ◼   ► the data point that it needs to expose by default is the light bulb that's built into

01:19:57 ◼   ► the device. But then if I long press it, that's where I see on the left side the light, and

01:20:04 ◼   ► on the right side the switch to arm my security system. Like it makes absolutely no sense

01:20:10 ◼   ► to group the features, the functionalities of this device within a single accessory.

01:20:17 ◼   ► So I think that Apple and I think folks on Reddit have been fighting a lot of raiders

01:20:23 ◼   ► about this. There needs to be a way to ungroup them because then again, you have devices,

01:20:28 ◼   ► for example, you have HomeKit accessories, products that are, for example, ceiling fans

01:20:33 ◼   ► that also have a light. So in order to control your ceiling fan and your lights, you're

01:20:39 ◼   ► gonna have to expand a device with a long press and you're gonna see the fan and the

01:20:47 ◼   ► light together.

01:20:48 ◼   ► Like, it makes very little sense.

01:20:50 ◼   ► Like, I could see an argument for temperature sensors to group humidity and temperature

01:20:56 ◼   ► together or, you know, outlets that have multiple plugs.

01:21:03 ◼   ► I can see why Apple thought of that.

01:21:05 ◼   ► you also have a collection of HomeKit devices that within the same physical

01:21:10 ◼   ► accessory you have wildly different functionalities and to group them

01:21:15 ◼   ► together is dysfunctional to the experience. For me, personally speaking,

01:21:19 ◼   ► in addition to the security system, this is a problem because of the way that

01:21:24 ◼   ► HomeKit, that my custom, sorry, my custom Homebridge televisions work.

01:21:32 ◼   ► With the old LG TV package, I could see in iOS 12 different switches for things

01:21:45 ◼   ► like PS4 channel or TV volume or you know all the different features that I

01:21:52 ◼   ► enabled as switches but in iOS 13 because all those switches belong to a

01:21:58 ◼   ► single accessory, they are now grouped together and in order to use them I need to always open

01:22:04 ◼   ► a pop-up and that the UI makes absolutely no sense. It's got these super tall physical switches

01:22:13 ◼   ► and basically what used to occupy a single screen worth of tiles before now requires like three

01:22:22 ◼   ► pages of scrolling in iOS 13. I need to open a pop-up menu and then I need to

01:22:27 ◼   ► scroll this immense list of super tall switches. I'm gonna send you a screenshot

01:22:33 ◼   ► Myke because you need to understand what I'm talking about here.

01:22:36 ◼   ► Yeah I do.

01:22:36 ◼   ► It's even more than three pages.

01:22:39 ◼   ► Will this be a screenshot that I can include in the show notes or no?

01:22:42 ◼   ► This will absolutely be a screenshot that you can include in the show notes because I think

01:22:45 ◼   ► people need to visualize what I'm talking about here. So this is how a TV,

01:22:50 ◼   ► the same accessory groups, multiple switches, I'm sending that to you on iMessage,

01:22:55 ◼   ► and I can also send you what the security system looks like when it's both a light and a siren.

01:23:02 ◼   ► Oh, this is bonkers. It's just a big list of switches that look exactly the same.

01:23:06 ◼   ► And, for example, in Control Center, when you open the HomeKit tile, you will see that, for example,

01:23:16 ◼   ► things like the "Eve weather" and "Eve degree" no longer give you the data points, they just say

01:23:23 ◼   ► "two sensors". They don't actually give you the numbers as soon as you open the HomeKit tile.

01:23:30 ◼   ► It's really... with every change to the Home app, Apple makes one step forward, which in this case

01:23:40 ◼   ► would be running a shortcut as part of automation, and two steps backwards. Like, what are you even

01:23:45 ◼   ► doing with this UI. It makes absolutely no sense, especially in Control Center

01:23:50 ◼   ► when you want to have fast access to all kinds of switches and details from

01:23:56 ◼   ► sensors. So if you take a look at the Control Center screenshot you will see

01:23:59 ◼   ► the weather stuff, the temperature stuff, just says "two sensors".

01:24:04 ◼   ► That's no good.

01:24:06 ◼   ► Yeah, you need to expand it and then you will see what it contains.

01:24:12 ◼   ► Yeah, that's for sure.

01:24:14 ◼   ► Yeah, so I'm happy with this TV.

01:24:19 ◼   ► I'm not happy with the way the HomeKit is changing in iOS 13.

01:24:24 ◼   ► Otherwise, you know, Samsung, good job. Airplay 2 works fine.

01:24:30 ◼   ► Also, good job Shortcuts team because now I can include my kitchen TV as part of the

01:24:38 ◼   ► set playback destination action in shortcuts

01:24:43 ◼   ► so I can automate my Samsung TV from shortcuts natively because of AirPlay 2, but HomeKit team seriously

01:24:51 ◼   ► take a look at you know

01:24:53 ◼   ► either listen to this episode and take a look at the screenshots in the show notes or just try and go to

01:25:01 ◼   ► reddit.com/r/homekit and in the search field type iOS 13 and you will see a whole bunch of complaints.

01:25:09 ◼   ► Yep.

01:25:11 ◼   ► Oh man.

01:25:12 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:25:15 ◼   ► Are we done?

01:25:16 ◼   ► I think we're done.

01:25:18 ◼   ► You all tired out now?

01:25:19 ◼   ► I am a little exhausted but it's a comment that, you know, Myke, I'm gonna say your favorite

01:25:27 ◼   ► sentence. I can't believe nobody's talking about this.

01:25:30 ◼   ► If you want to find out show notes for this week, go to relay.fm/connective/253

01:25:35 ◼   ► If you want to find Federico online, he's @Vittici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I

01:25:39 ◼   ► and you go to maxstories.net and check out App Stories as well because he's going to talk more

01:25:43 ◼   ► about the shortcut stuff we were talking about earlier on in the episode. You can find me,

01:25:48 ◼   ► I'm @imike, I-M-Y-K-E. Thank you so much to our sponsors this week, Squarespace,

01:25:53 ◼   ► Pingdom and TextExpander and we'll be back next week. Until then, say goodbye Federico.

01:25:59 ◼   ► Arrivederci