Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 298.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible by our sponsors,

00:00:14 ◼   ► Pingdom, Express, VPN, and Miro.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett and it is an even episode,

00:00:20 ◼   ► so I am introducing Federico Vittucci first.

00:00:23 ◼   ► - Hello, I'm back.

00:00:25 ◼   ► - Yes, I hope you had a good time off last week.

00:00:27 ◼   ► I trust that was good.

00:00:28 ◼   ► I'm back refreshed and sunburned.

00:00:31 ◼   ► So I'm doing okay.

00:00:33 ◼   ► - Do you wear sunscreen ever?

00:00:36 ◼   ► Now I'm worried.

00:00:37 ◼   ► - I do, but I don't think it was good enough, honestly.

00:00:41 ◼   ► We bought it at a pharmacy

00:00:43 ◼   ► and I thought that it was super fancy.

00:00:44 ◼   ► I think it's kinda not up to standard, I would say.

00:00:48 ◼   ► - Okay, you need more SPFs, I think.

00:00:51 ◼   ► - That's the problem, yes.

00:00:52 ◼   ► - Right, the higher the number, the better it is?

00:00:54 ◼   ► Is that how it works?

00:00:55 ◼   ► - That is actually how it works.

00:00:58 ◼   ► So, okay. Yeah, I bought it for my tattoos. Like I did care. Yeah, I gotta protect those, you know, especially the colored ones.

00:01:06 ◼   ► Yep, you don't want those getting sunburned too early. Really ever, but definitely early on.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Uh, Myke, how are you?

00:01:13 ◼   ► Fine, what's the opposite of sunburn? Because I have that.

00:01:17 ◼   ► Like just being pasty and pale?

00:01:19 ◼   ► In Italy we would say mozzarella.

00:01:21 ◼   ► There you go, I'm a big mozzarella boy, that's what I am.

00:01:25 ◼   ► I'm milky and white, that's me.

00:01:31 ◼   ► That is who I am right now.

00:01:33 ◼   ► Do you go outside?

00:01:34 ◼   ► Like y'all take walks or anything, Myke?

00:01:36 ◼   ► I've started doing that now.

00:01:38 ◼   ► I wasn't for a bit.

00:01:39 ◼   ► Are you still under lockdown?

00:01:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:42 ◼   ► Oh wow.

00:01:43 ◼   ► It's relaxed now.

00:01:46 ◼   ► I like how you say "oh wow", like "oh wow, look at you on your lockdown".

00:01:50 ◼   ► We were in lockdown like a month before us, we were all living our lives stupidly.

00:01:53 ◼   ► I just say oh wow because now we've been out of it and it feels like we've been out of

00:01:57 ◼   ► it for a long time.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Are you ready to go back in?

00:02:01 ◼   ► Don't mention it.

00:02:03 ◼   ► I think we'll...

00:02:04 ◼   ► It's getting bad here again.

00:02:05 ◼   ► It's going to be great.

00:02:06 ◼   ► It's going to be great.

00:02:07 ◼   ► It's bad everywhere, right?

00:02:08 ◼   ► Because it didn't go away.

00:02:10 ◼   ► It's still there.

00:02:12 ◼   ► People just got bored of it.

00:02:13 ◼   ► Myke, do you want to start us?

00:02:15 ◼   ► Yeah, I wanted to recommend a very good episode of Last Week Tonight by John Oliver, which

00:02:22 ◼   ► talks a lot about the systemic racism issue in America, why it exists, which was enlightening,

00:02:29 ◼   ► and what the term "defunding the police" actually means, because that phrase, if you don't know

00:02:35 ◼   ► what that means, sounds really weird. It's a peculiar thing. Do we not want the police

00:02:39 ◼   ► anymore? Like, which is a strange thing to hear, but there are a lot of really good reasons

00:02:44 ◼   ► for why funding changing of the police force should be done and I really recommend that

00:02:50 ◼   ► people watch this John Oliver episode. If you're in America you can watch it on YouTube

00:02:54 ◼   ► for free, if you're not in America you can't. But wherever you can get HBO or HBO content

00:03:01 ◼   ► I recommend really giving this one a watch. I found it enlightening, it helped me understand

00:03:06 ◼   ► some things that I didn't know and is an incredibly emotionally affecting episode that people

00:03:13 ◼   ► should say, so I really recommend it. Agreed. I watched it on Monday and was just completely

00:03:20 ◼   ► completely captivated and it was extremely helpful to put some context around the things that we're

00:03:27 ◼   ► seeing. I think that show does a good job a lot of the time. I watch it weekly just about when

00:03:34 ◼   ► they're on, but this one is if you're not a regular viewer you need to go check it out.

00:03:40 ◼   ► Headline Mac rumors Friday June 5th 2020. Oh, I like that. You should do all follow-up items in that exact way, huh?

00:03:47 ◼   ► It's my news announcer voice. Yes good some iPhone 11 users complain of display with odd

00:03:53 ◼   ► green

00:03:55 ◼   ► tent

00:03:56 ◼   ► We got a gate boys. Yes. It's not a gate. This is not interesting at all

00:04:01 ◼   ► Look I

00:04:06 ◼   ► Understand your issue. I know that it is

00:04:10 ◼   ► A mild annoyance for you.

00:04:12 ◼   ► But it... you know...

00:04:16 ◼   ► Do we have to keep every episode following up on the slight green tint of your iPhone?

00:04:21 ◼   ► It's not just me!

00:04:23 ◼   ► This is just other people... like a subset of other people saying that they experienced the same thing as you.

00:04:28 ◼   ► But there's like... where's the news?

00:04:31 ◼   ► That I'm not alone.

00:04:33 ◼   ► That you're not alone. Does that make you feel better?

00:04:35 ◼   ► Well now people are talking about this. Before nobody was talking about this.

00:04:38 ◼   ► I can't believe that nobody's talking about this.

00:04:40 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:04:41 ◼   ► What's funny about this, and this is something that Marco has said on ATP, is that it's very

00:04:45 ◼   ► hard for podcasts to like go viral.

00:04:47 ◼   ► We've been talking about this for weeks, and then it took someone talking about it on Reddit

00:04:49 ◼   ► for it to be a story, which is funny.

00:04:52 ◼   ► I had to think, why didn't I blog about this?

00:04:54 ◼   ► And then I remembered, last time I blogged about an iPhone problem, it exploded in a

00:04:59 ◼   ► way that I was extremely uncomfortable with.

00:05:01 ◼   ► So now--

00:05:02 ◼   ► It wasn't a blog.

00:05:03 ◼   ► The blog wasn't the problem.

00:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah, the YouTube video.

00:05:05 ◼   ► It would have blogged there.

00:05:06 ◼   ► It wouldn't have been an issue, but you made a YouTube video.

00:05:07 ◼   ► Yeah. So I'm not doing that again.

00:05:08 ◼   ► I don't think what you call "Greengate," I don't think it's viral. I haven't seen it

00:05:13 ◼   ► on TV. I haven't seen it on, like, mainstream news. So...

00:05:16 ◼   ► Meanwhile, the Hiscate video was on the morning show.

00:05:20 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly.

00:05:21 ◼   ► Not the morning show. That's a fictional TV show in Appleland. But, you know, Good Morning

00:05:25 ◼   ► America or whatever.

00:05:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:28 ◼   ► Adena could never get the name correct for the morning show, and she would always call

00:05:32 ◼   ► it Good Morning Show.

00:05:33 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Every single time.

00:05:35 ◼   ► Good Morning Show.

00:05:36 ◼   ► - Good morning, the show. - To get to say the name

00:05:38 ◼   ► of the show. - Hey, I understand.

00:05:39 ◼   ► I have that problem.

00:05:41 ◼   ► - You have that problem more than anybody I know.

00:05:44 ◼   ► - Yeah. - But that's a story

00:05:46 ◼   ► for another time. - People may be surprised,

00:05:48 ◼   ► I'm gonna tell the story now, people may be surprised

00:05:50 ◼   ► how often in our Google Doc I have things

00:05:51 ◼   ► spelled phonetically, especially sponsor names.

00:05:54 ◼   ► 'Cause you can't get those wrong.

00:05:56 ◼   ► - Well, you can. - Well, I do often,

00:05:58 ◼   ► but I don't want to.

00:05:59 ◼   ► - I think you did it at a live show.

00:06:01 ◼   ► - What did I say?

00:06:04 ◼   ► - It was Kubernetes. - Yeah, well, yeah,

00:06:05 ◼   ► But no one can say that.

00:06:06 ◼   ► Oh yeah, that took like...

00:06:08 ◼   ► Well, you know.

00:06:09 ◼   ► Yeah, and like I felt like the eyes of the Mac Stadium people, like on the, you know,

00:06:13 ◼   ► they were in the theaters, like I just felt their eyes burning into my heart.

00:06:16 ◼   ► I don't know what took longer, say in Kubernetes or for Jason Snell to flip a coin.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Well, Jason can't flip coins, so it took him longer for sure.

00:06:26 ◼   ► That's why we rehearse.

00:06:28 ◼   ► Well, we rehearse so we realize he can't flip coins, so then we don't ask him to.

00:06:32 ◼   ► All right, Federico, do you want to tell us about

00:06:35 ◼   ► we've been incorporated into an AI?

00:06:38 ◼   ► Ah, yes, this is a fun project.

00:06:40 ◼   ► So we received a tweet from listener Leon Overwheel,

00:06:45 ◼   ► which is actually a very nice name,

00:06:49 ◼   ► says, "Hey, guys, I wanted to share something

00:06:50 ◼   ► I've been working on for a few weeks.

00:06:52 ◼   ► I trained an AI to generate titles and summaries

00:06:56 ◼   ► for episodes of Connected that do not exist."

00:06:59 ◼   ► So there's a website called

00:07:01 ◼   ► thisepisodedoesnotexist.com, and if you go to that website/connected, specifically for

00:07:06 ◼   ► this show, you will be presented with fictional titles of fictional episodes that do not actually

00:07:14 ◼   ► exist. So, for example, I just opened this, thisepisodedoesnotexist.com/connected, and

00:07:21 ◼   ► it says "Connected28, buried alive under the terms of Dropbox. Myke and Federico discuss

00:07:28 ◼   ► Federico's new iPhone case, the updated Files app and iOS 13. If only Federico could write

00:07:34 ◼   ► code like Siri! Exclamation point. And that's the figure.

00:07:39 ◼   ► So before we go on, before we go on, I think we need to explain this a little more before

00:07:43 ◼   ► what we're about to do is about 10 minutes of refreshing this page and screaming. So

00:07:48 ◼   ► basically this wonderful listener, Leon, took I guess our entire back catalog, right, and

00:07:56 ◼   ► fed it into this AI. It's built on top of something called GPT-2, I think, is the AI

00:08:05 ◼   ► model. And then whenever you go to the page that Federica recommends, it will show you

00:08:10 ◼   ► one of, I think, 400, because it's not generating it new every time. There is a limit to the

00:08:18 ◼   ► amount that have been made. 500 have been generated, and you can go there. And the great

00:08:23 ◼   ► thing is that they are actually persistent so you can find one that you

00:08:26 ◼   ► like keep the number and go back to it and you'll get it again so it's

00:08:29 ◼   ► generated 500 episode titles and descriptions based on real titles and

00:08:34 ◼   ► descriptions from episodes of the show that's correct and it's sublime and

00:08:40 ◼   ► there's a there's a random episode button that you can click and you take

00:08:43 ◼   ► into a new page every single time so I just clicked it yes like connected

00:08:47 ◼   ► episode 259 anime and Game Boy Advance. Game Boy Advance is dead. iPhone and iPad

00:08:53 ◼   ► gameplay are shared. Canonical has a new CEO, a conversation about working on the

00:08:59 ◼   ► iPad Pro. Connected 301, mindset creeps in. Next up are more thoughts on Last of

00:09:05 ◼   ► M's future.

00:09:08 ◼   ► Connected 413, under the gun. This week the aging hosts of connected remember

00:09:15 ◼   ► their first reactions to the iPhone and talk about the value of independent blogging.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Nice, okay, connected 1.15, emergency VGA.

00:09:25 ◼   ► What?

00:09:26 ◼   ► System76 catches up on pre-WWDC news, including the disappearance of connected and remote

00:09:33 ◼   ► play as well as a lot of creepy, yet soothing whispering.

00:09:38 ◼   ► Connected 2.42, game of screens.

00:09:41 ◼   ► This one I really don't understand.

00:09:45 ◼   ► This week, producer Neil Radock and reporter Tristan Thompson discussed the new iPhone

00:09:58 ◼   ► 6s Plus, the new Apple TV app, and photo management in iWork?

00:10:05 ◼   ► Who are these people?

00:10:08 ◼   ► Tristan Thompson and Neil Radock?

00:10:10 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:10:11 ◼   ► I found the best title connected to 43. This is the title. One person, two persons, three

00:10:17 ◼   ► persons, four persons, five people, six people, seven people, eight people, nine people. Here's

00:10:22 ◼   ► the description on the penultimate episode of connected. The boys talk about photo management,

00:10:29 ◼   ► smart home devices and smartphones. Shocking, right? That's what we would do for a penultimate

00:10:35 ◼   ► "Connected46" I think the AI went a bit rogue here. "Sketchup" "This week the guys take

00:10:43 ◼   ► a look at the news this week" "Connected" this is still the description "Connected194"

00:10:48 ◼   ► "They belong to the world now" "The future of supply chain management" yeah this is

00:10:54 ◼   ► errored out it's just a bunch of titles. "Connected21" the sequel trilogy "The boys talk about

00:11:03 ◼   ► Apple's range of earbuds, then debate productivity for a while before realizing the irony of

00:11:08 ◼   ► it.

00:11:09 ◼   ► Connected 3 to 5 Interview with the mentor. Myke was gifted a new television. Federico

00:11:17 ◼   ► supported by a great new Reddit account and Steven continues to improve his iOS 12 review.

00:11:31 ◼   ► So this one, I already found this one yesterday and shared it with these two, but I'll have

00:11:35 ◼   ► to say it now because I think it's my favorite one.

00:11:38 ◼   ► Connected 91, a life presented as a short video.

00:11:42 ◼   ► This week, The Rock tells the story of his accessories.

00:11:46 ◼   ► Myke of course.

00:11:50 ◼   ► Myke of course.

00:11:52 ◼   ► Of course.

00:11:53 ◼   ► Connected 175, global warming cancels.

00:11:58 ◼   ► warming armor is dead baby parentheses except for Steven who is still carrying around an

00:12:06 ◼   ► iPhone 7 also reports of interference with Apple TV remote scripts okay and China and

00:12:17 ◼   ► China looming large on the horizon oh dear sure yeah connected 60 born in bricks this

00:12:26 ◼   ► This week the guys talk about the new iPads and click some fake updates.

00:12:31 ◼   ► Then iOS 13.4 is crabby crabby crabby and updates will be hard to come by.

00:12:39 ◼   ► Connected 89 Call of Duty.

00:12:41 ◼   ► This week, Steven and Myke are joined by Guillermo Del Toro to talk about Disney Infinity before

00:12:48 ◼   ► discussing Apple's recent environmental push.

00:12:52 ◼   ► Guillermo Del Toro.

00:12:54 ◼   ► Chapter 13, Singleton Dependency. It's all one word? This week, Steven and Myke talk

00:13:03 ◼   ► about Twitter and WatchKit, okay, before being greeted by Federico's plumber.

00:13:12 ◼   ► Oh no!

00:13:14 ◼   ► Oh, nice!

00:13:17 ◼   ► Connected 178, Treasure Changer. After Myke reveals the source code for the next iPhone,

00:13:24 ◼   ► and Federico discussed the effect of WWDC on iOS apps and the effect that badly coded

00:13:30 ◼   ► APIs have on users. Oh my god, alright WinterCharm in the Discord just pasted connected 38 confessions

00:13:38 ◼   ► of a sociopath. This week, Steven and Myke talked to Scott Forstall about Forstall taking

00:13:43 ◼   ► over Show Me A Pro, recent App Store drama and what's going on with iOS 13.4. Confessions

00:13:50 ◼   ► So, this is incredible. This is so good. Leon is the best. This is one of my favorite things

00:13:59 ◼   ► that I've seen in a very, very long time. And remember, there are 500 of these.

00:14:04 ◼   ► Connected 131. 30 second politic. I just saw this one. It's so good.

00:14:09 ◼   ► This week, Steven and Myke banter about Twitter. You always talk about Twitter, you two.

00:14:14 ◼   ► Our Myke challenges Steven to a game of calm grocery, giving everyone a peek of the statistically

00:14:22 ◼   ► significant set of election results. Steven wins.

00:14:27 ◼   ► Year of Steven!

00:14:29 ◼   ► iOS workarounds, better power management, and, well, you get the idea.

00:14:37 ◼   ► So a chat, but in managed in the relay for members discord has given us an interesting

00:14:42 ◼   ► challenge that I would like to get to some at some point that we should actually do one

00:14:47 ◼   ► of those episodes. So just like pick one and that's the episode and we just have to work

00:14:52 ◼   ► out the episode from that. That sounds like a really good annual special. Yes. I like

00:15:00 ◼   ► that a lot. Which you can hear if you are a Relay FM member. I'm making a note of that.

00:15:08 ◼   ► Oh my god, that's so fun.

00:15:10 ◼   ► I can't. Connected 177, the title is

00:15:14 ◼   ► Multiswab.

00:15:17 ◼   ► What?

00:15:20 ◼   ► This is so good.

00:15:22 ◼   ► Yeah. Oh boy.

00:15:24 ◼   ► Okay.

00:15:26 ◼   ► Let's take a break and we'll get into some news. Yeah. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yes.

00:15:29 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Pingdom from SolarWinds. While you've been listening to this podcast,

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00:15:52 ◼   ► When things aren't running so smoothly that system is pingdom it detects over 13 million outages every month

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00:16:17 ◼   ► so they go to separate people depending on the severity of the outage, how you get them.

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00:16:51 ◼   ► Our thanks to Pingdom from Solo Wins for the support of this show and Relay FM. There is

00:16:56 ◼   ► a new beta version of iOS, it has been renamed to 13.6. This was previously known as 13.5.5,

00:17:08 ◼   ► which I found confusing because we're only on 13.5.1. But they're, they're renaming it

00:17:14 ◼   ► a little bit.

00:17:15 ◼   ► They can't stop jumping ahead right now. Because as well, so 13.5.5, it had a beta one. So

00:17:21 ◼   ► this is iOS 13.6 beta 2 even though there was no beta 1 of 13.6 which is fun

00:17:28 ◼   ► it includes fixes it includes changes like you can automatically download iOS

00:17:34 ◼   ► app updates now which is a separate option to automatically installing them

00:17:39 ◼   ► and there's some new stuff in the health app as well this really isn't big news I

00:17:46 ◼   ► I just wanted to talk about it because I can never remember a time where Apple was releasing betas for an iOS version so close to WWDC.

00:17:58 ◼   ► I think there was a... maybe at least one precedent? Which version of iOS was it that had the HomePod, AirPlay 2 delay stuff?

00:18:11 ◼   ► Was it like 12.4 or 11.4?

00:18:15 ◼   ► Like there was one of them that came out relatively late in the cycle.

00:18:21 ◼   ► And I think it was the one with the HomePod stuff with like with the Airplay 2

00:18:25 ◼   ► stuff with like the multi-speaker deal.

00:18:28 ◼   ► Oh yeah. It got like just in under the wire.

00:18:31 ◼   ► Yeah, that just...

00:18:32 ◼   ► Yeah, that was pretty close.

00:18:33 ◼   ► It was announced at the WWDC before and it came out just in time for the next

00:18:40 ◼   ► or WWDC. So that's the only example I can think of. What really strikes me here is the,

00:18:49 ◼   ► obviously the proximity to WWDC, but also the number, like 13.6. That's the sixth iteration

00:18:57 ◼   ► of a version of iOS. And I don't think I've ever seen version 0.6 of iOS. I don't think I've ever

00:19:06 ◼   ► in version 0.5, 0.6 for sure. That's news to me. It shows maybe a couple of things,

00:19:15 ◼   ► that maybe there were a lot of bugs to fix, and that also there were a lot of features

00:19:19 ◼   ► that maybe were cut and had to come back in time. And also the fact that this feature

00:19:29 ◼   ► install and download updates automatically, it does feel to me like Apple really wants

00:19:36 ◼   ► you to always be on the latest version of iOS so they can avoid people, you know, among

00:19:42 ◼   ► other things, to avoid people jailbreaking and to make sure that people are always on

00:19:47 ◼   ► the latest and in theory, safest and better performing version of iOS.

00:19:53 ◼   ► That's a good point, the jailbreak thing is a good point. So if you are unfamiliar, jailbreaking

00:19:58 ◼   ► is back in a big way right now. In 13.5 something, there's a zero-day exploit which will allow

00:20:07 ◼   ► people to jailbreak really easily. It could be that one of the reasons they are going

00:20:12 ◼   ► to have another version of 13 is just to close that door, if they haven't already.

00:20:17 ◼   ► Interesting.

00:20:18 ◼   ► Yeah, but, so, 13.6, I don't know if this will come out in time for WWDC. Maybe it could

00:20:25 ◼   ► come up after WWDC we could have a beta for 13 and a beta for 14. Who knows? I mean at

00:20:31 ◼   ► this point who knows if we're even gonna have a beta of 14 the day of the keynote?

00:20:35 ◼   ► Is there even gonna be a keynote? So...

00:20:38 ◼   ► Zach is telling me in the Discord that 13.5.1

00:20:41 ◼   ► fixed the jailbreak but nevertheless I was wondering is it a surprise that we

00:20:47 ◼   ► still don't have any more information about WWDC? We're 12 days away. I was

00:20:53 ◼   ► expecting we'd have had a little bit more by now. So a couple of things usually you

00:20:59 ◼   ► do see that press release or at least those invitations to the press saying by the way

00:21:05 ◼   ► it's official there's going to be a keynote and it's you know it's kind of funny because

00:21:09 ◼   ► everybody knows there's going to be a keynote and there's going to be a keynote and it's

00:21:12 ◼   ► going to be 10 a.m. and new member of the press are invited and so you know that it's

00:21:17 ◼   ► official, there's going to be a keynote. Now, it may be that... So I see a couple of things

00:21:23 ◼   ► here. Obviously, Apple is running late, and because of everything that's been happening

00:21:28 ◼   ► between the lockdown and the protests in the United States, you know, delays would be acceptable.

00:21:34 ◼   ► Also, it could be that maybe they are doing something that involves members of the press,

00:21:42 ◼   ► those are discussions being held privately and they don't have the usual press release going

00:21:48 ◼   ► out on the Apple newsroom. That could be a potential thing that's happening. Or,

00:21:54 ◼   ► maybe there's no keynote. Maybe it's like a pre-recorded video that goes up like a Nintendo

00:22:00 ◼   ► Direct and there's nobody to invite, there's nothing to pre-announce, it's just gonna happen.

00:22:06 ◼   ► Now, I still think it's gonna be kind of awkward. So I still think there's...

00:22:10 ◼   ► There must be, at some point, an announcement of, like, what is this WWDC gonna entail for

00:22:16 ◼   ► developers? Like, are you gonna tell me what I'm supposed to do? Like, starting June 22.

00:22:21 ◼   ► Like what? I just sit in front of my computer and wait for something to happen? So I think

00:22:26 ◼   ► there's gonna be an announcement of some kind at some point. I'm very curious...

00:22:30 ◼   ► So just to clarify, like, Apple has said there will be a keynote, but keynote can be anything.

00:22:35 ◼   ► Right, yes.

00:22:36 ◼   ► It basically just means, well, the phrase keynote, it just means there will be some

00:22:41 ◼   ► kind of video presentation.

00:22:47 ◼   ► I don't know, you know, like me and Jason were talking about this a couple of days ago.

00:22:53 ◼   ► I'm not sure if it's going to be like a video like a Nintendo Direct or something they do

00:22:59 ◼   ► in the Steve Jobs Theater with socially distanced staff members in the audience.

00:23:05 ◼   ► I don't know how they're going to do it, right?

00:23:06 ◼   ► Like, I can't put every time I think I have an idea, it slips away from my brain.

00:23:11 ◼   ► Right. Like, oh, they'll do it.

00:23:12 ◼   ► Like they did that Craig Federighi thing about the magic keyboard is what I think one day.

00:23:16 ◼   ► And then I'm like, well,

00:23:18 ◼   ► staff are going back to Apple Park, so they could just do it there.

00:23:21 ◼   ► Right. Like, I can't get my head around what will be the right way to do it.

00:23:25 ◼   ► Like probably a mix of all of those things, I guess.

00:23:30 ◼   ► But I have I have no idea.

00:23:31 ◼   ► I've got it. I know what they're going to do.

00:23:34 ◼   ► Remember that week that Tim Cook just tweeted pictures of things and then those things went

00:23:39 ◼   ► for sale?

00:23:40 ◼   ► Maybe it's just a tweet thread.

00:23:41 ◼   ► Okay.

00:23:42 ◼   ► And of course he'd kind of mess with the threading halfway through and have to restart it, but

00:23:45 ◼   ► screenshots.

00:23:46 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:23:47 ◼   ► Like maybe the simplest solution would be there is going to be a keynote and it's going

00:23:51 ◼   ► to be streamed live and it is going to be like the most obvious answer.

00:23:54 ◼   ► They're going to use the Steve Jobs Theater and there's going to be socially distant Apple

00:23:59 ◼   ► employees in the audience.

00:24:00 ◼   ► And then there's going to be...

00:24:01 ◼   ► That would be my personal preference for what they do.

00:24:04 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:05 ◼   ► Because that's going to film.

00:24:06 ◼   ► And then what they would do is that like relatively standard keynote, but with a lot more prerecorded

00:24:15 ◼   ► videos.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Yes.

00:24:18 ◼   ► That's what I want because that will feel the most normal.

00:24:21 ◼   ► So you still have a person on stage or a collection of people on stage, but you do obviously get

00:24:26 ◼   ► a lot more prerecorded stuff.

00:24:28 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:29 ◼   ► people on stage I guarantee you that like it will be one person goes left the

00:24:33 ◼   ► other person comes right yeah like no one will pass right because it's getting

00:24:37 ◼   ► too close to each other so like it would be like this revolving like track of

00:24:43 ◼   ► people but I would I I would love to see that like because that's what would make

00:24:47 ◼   ► me feel like this is a WWDC like a bunch of like really heavily produced videos

00:24:54 ◼   ► one after the other like a Nintendo Direct is going through weird I mean and

00:24:58 ◼   ► If that's what they do, it's what they do, I just want the information.

00:25:03 ◼   ► I feel like it will be some stage of some description and some videos of some description.

00:25:10 ◼   ► That's kind of how they'll do it.

00:25:12 ◼   ► That feels like more of a possibility now than it did a little bit ago.

00:25:18 ◼   ► The thing that I was more referring to is the actual way that WWDC will run for developers.

00:25:26 ◼   ► I was thinking we would have gotten a bit more detail on that by now.

00:25:29 ◼   ► Yeah. Yeah.

00:25:31 ◼   ► But there's been nothing.

00:25:32 ◼   ► Probably it will be next week now that they say, but it's just it was just a surprise to me.

00:25:37 ◼   ► They could do it however they want to do it. They don't have to do anything.

00:25:39 ◼   ► But I just I just assumed it would have been, uh, would have been like more formally announced by now.

00:25:47 ◼   ► Personally speaking, my my big question mark right now is, first of all, the timeline of it all.

00:25:54 ◼   ► Like, is there going to be a first beta of iOS 14,

00:25:57 ◼   ► assuming it's going to be called that,

00:25:58 ◼   ► available soon after the keynote?

00:26:01 ◼   ► And is Apple forecasting a release date in--

00:26:07 ◼   ► I mean, I assume in the fall, but are they

00:26:08 ◼   ► going to say this is coming out in September or in October?

00:26:12 ◼   ► Are they going to give us--

00:26:14 ◼   ► again, I'm assuming that the timeline will be different

00:26:16 ◼   ► this year, especially to accommodate for the iPhones,

00:26:19 ◼   ► which in theory, the rumors are saying

00:26:21 ◼   ► are coming in later than usual.

00:26:23 ◼   ► Does that apply to software as well?

00:26:25 ◼   ► So I am obviously unsurprisingly very curious about that.

00:26:30 ◼   ► I think the most they will give you is just "fall"

00:26:34 ◼   ► because I don't even think in previous times they've even said it will be out in September, have they?

00:26:38 ◼   ► I can't imagine them being like "Oh it'll come out in September!"

00:26:42 ◼   ► Like they always just say "the fall"

00:26:44 ◼   ► So it'll be the fall and yeah, who knows.

00:26:48 ◼   ► And then it will be probably whenever it's ready

00:26:51 ◼   ► because I guarantee you they will have after last year a plan in place for

00:26:55 ◼   ► phones ready iOS isn't ready. I mean they will have that plan in place now anyway because of

00:27:03 ◼   ► what happened last year but like definitely because of this year like those phones surely

00:27:08 ◼   ► will be made to also run 13 fine right not necessarily worrying about 14 but we'll have

00:27:17 ◼   ► have to wait and see. I feel sorry for you, Federico. You felt, yeah. Well, with the timeline.

00:27:25 ◼   ► I'll have to figure something out. Yeah. That'd be interesting. Breaking news, guys. Yeah,

00:27:35 ◼   ► I also have some. I see your notes, Steven, and I have something to follow up on your

00:27:40 ◼   ► real-time follow-up. Okay, so I just got an email because I'm an iBooks publisher, but

00:27:45 ◼   ► They also have a support document.

00:27:47 ◼   ► Apple is killing off iBooks Author in favor of pages.

00:27:52 ◼   ► So if people aren't familiar,

00:27:53 ◼   ► iBooks Author was announced 2012 or so, a long time ago.

00:27:56 ◼   ► Maybe that big, like that event in New York they did,

00:27:58 ◼   ► like, "We're gonna make textbooks and make teachers,

00:28:00 ◼   ► give tools to teachers, make them make textbooks."

00:28:03 ◼   ► Didn't really go anywhere,

00:28:04 ◼   ► but it's been around a long time.

00:28:06 ◼   ► I did my book in it.

00:28:07 ◼   ► Federico, I think you've worked in it as well.

00:28:09 ◼   ► I know David Sparks has.

00:28:10 ◼   ► iBooks Author was cool in the sense

00:28:12 ◼   ► that you could do a lot of stuff in your books,

00:28:14 ◼   ► but it was extremely buggy and slow

00:28:17 ◼   ► and just kind of a terrible application.

00:28:20 ◼   ► A few years ago, they started adding things to pages

00:28:23 ◼   ► like EPUB export and some,

00:28:25 ◼   ► not all the cool stuff iBooks Author can do,

00:28:27 ◼   ► but a lot of it.

00:28:28 ◼   ► And they have now said that iBooks Author

00:28:32 ◼   ► will no longer be updated.

00:28:33 ◼   ► You soon won't be able to download it anymore.

00:28:36 ◼   ► You can continue to use it on 10.15 and earlier.

00:28:39 ◼   ► So, you know, I don't know if there'll be support

00:28:41 ◼   ► next year for it.

00:28:43 ◼   ► and they're building an importer into pages.

00:28:45 ◼   ► So what I'll do at some point

00:28:47 ◼   ► is probably take my iBooks author file

00:28:49 ◼   ► and import it into pages and see what breaks

00:28:52 ◼   ► if I need to update that book at some point.

00:28:54 ◼   ► Not a surprise, iBooks author has been slowly decaying

00:28:58 ◼   ► and it wasn't in a very healthy state to begin with,

00:29:01 ◼   ► but it is officially over for iBooks author.

00:29:05 ◼   ► - Yeah, which makes me very sad

00:29:07 ◼   ► because I'm pretty sure that there's still

00:29:09 ◼   ► a lot of iBooks author features

00:29:10 ◼   ► that have not found their way to pages

00:29:12 ◼   ► for sure not into pages on iOS and iPadOS. So hopefully we'll see some updates on this front

00:29:18 ◼   ► to accommodate for this discontinuation at WWDC. Yeah, what's the conspiracy theory, right? They're

00:29:25 ◼   ► doing it just before WWDC. What's the conspiracy theory about this? There's got to be one. They

00:29:30 ◼   ► don't want this to overtake all the news about new versions of software, which it clearly would.

00:29:35 ◼   ► Yeah, or maybe they just have, you know, the next version of pages is going to have a bunch more

00:29:39 ◼   ► more things for publishing ebooks, which honestly I would very, very much welcome. The other

00:29:48 ◼   ► thing, it's not the only thing that's discontinuing today. Say goodbye to iTunes U. So iTunes

00:29:56 ◼   ► U is going to be discontinued at the end of 2021. There's a support document that says

00:30:03 ◼   ► June 2020 update. Well, not an update as much as an explanation of what's going to happen.

00:30:09 ◼   ► This is like the worst way to say "update." The update is, "You're dead!" Right? Like,

00:30:16 ◼   ► "Oh, no!"

00:30:17 ◼   ► Apple has been hard at work building the next generation of apps for both teachers and students.

00:30:24 ◼   ► So basically the argument is, we now offer Classroom, which turns your iPad into a powerful

00:30:29 ◼   ► teaching assistant, and we have Schoolwork, which helps teachers save time and maximize

00:30:33 ◼   ► its students' potential. And at the end it says, in addition to classroom and school work, which

00:30:39 ◼   ► are two separate products, Apple also introduced School Manager, and we now have apps like Pages,

00:30:47 ◼   ► Numbers, Keynote, GarageBandai Movie, Clips, and Swift Playgrounds. Sure, yeah, that makes sense.

00:30:54 ◼   ► With this in mind, this is the last sentence, with this in mind, Apple will discontinue iTunes

00:30:59 ◼   ► you at the end of 2021. iTunes U will continue to be available to all existing customers

00:31:06 ◼   ► through the 2020-2021 educational year. So by the end of next year, iTunes U is gone,

00:31:13 ◼   ► which does not surprise me because this hasn't got any meaningful updates in a few years.

00:31:21 ◼   ► So the cleaning, you know, spring cleaning just before WWDC.

00:31:26 ◼   ► Today Apple settles all family business, it seems.

00:31:31 ◼   ► They're taking care of the whole situation.

00:31:33 ◼   ► What's next on the chopping block?

00:31:35 ◼   ► Ah, that's a good question.

00:31:38 ◼   ► Safari reading list?

00:31:39 ◼   ► I don't know, honestly.

00:31:41 ◼   ► No, I really hope that gets better, WWDC.

00:31:45 ◼   ► It's just orange icons, though, right?

00:31:47 ◼   ► They both had orange icons.

00:31:49 ◼   ► Any orange icon.

00:31:51 ◼   ► Pages is gonna go.

00:31:52 ◼   ► Oh, no.

00:31:54 ◼   ► and unexpected consequences.

00:31:56 ◼   ► Yeah, I think these two make sense.

00:31:59 ◼   ► I cannot think of any other utility.

00:32:02 ◼   ► No, because Final Cut Remote got an update recently.

00:32:07 ◼   ► Eclipse, they're still doing updates on that.

00:32:11 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess these two. Motion and Compressor,

00:32:14 ◼   ► those still get updates for the Final Cut.

00:32:17 ◼   ► I opened Motion a couple of weeks ago working on a video.

00:32:19 ◼   ► I was like, "Oh, maybe I'll do some cool Motion stuff."

00:32:21 ◼   ► I was like, "This is terrifying."

00:32:23 ◼   ► I just closed it and walked away.

00:32:26 ◼   ► There could be something in here about Apple maybe refocusing their education teams.

00:32:32 ◼   ► I would imagine there was a bit of an overlap between the iBooks author teams and some of

00:32:37 ◼   ► the education teams.

00:32:39 ◼   ► They always spoke about iBooks author being a thing for education.

00:32:44 ◼   ► That was one of the big parts of it, if I'm remembering correctly, that you could make

00:32:47 ◼   ► textbooks in it and stuff like that.

00:32:49 ◼   ► and that was something that they were really pushing.

00:32:51 ◼   ► And considering how learning has changed

00:32:54 ◼   ► over the last three months,

00:32:55 ◼   ► there could be an element here of them

00:32:58 ◼   ► kind of repositioning stuff.

00:32:59 ◼   ► Be like, all right, we're gonna make some advancements

00:33:01 ◼   ► on our current products, like Classroom and Schoolwork.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Is that, are they the names of them?

00:33:08 ◼   ► And then like saying, - Schoolroom, Classwork.

00:33:10 ◼   ► - And we're gonna leave that stuff in the past

00:33:12 ◼   ► and we're gonna move forward with these new products

00:33:14 ◼   ► so they stop having to drag along iBooks Author, for example.

00:33:20 ◼   ► So I just want to say that Texas Hold'em outlived both iTunes U and iBooks Author.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Oh, it came back.

00:33:26 ◼   ► Well...

00:33:27 ◼   ► It didn't just outlive. It revived.

00:33:30 ◼   ► They never did an iBooks Author with new graphics.

00:33:33 ◼   ► You know, I used iBooks Author seven years ago

00:33:37 ◼   ► when I did the ebook version of my editorial review.

00:33:42 ◼   ► That was all done back when I used to be a Mac user.

00:33:44 ◼   ► It was all done in iBooks Heather.

00:33:47 ◼   ► I actually kind of love iBooks Heather.

00:33:49 ◼   ► I used it for Aqua and Bondi, Bondi, say it both ways.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:54 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:33:55 ◼   ► That book.

00:33:56 ◼   ► And it's like, every time I saved it, I was like, is now the time of MacBook Pro

00:33:59 ◼   ► catches fire?

00:34:00 ◼   ► Cause it's like so nerve wracking.

00:34:02 ◼   ► We'll put in the show notes as well, a link, Bradley Chambers, who's, you know,

00:34:07 ◼   ► one of the leading sort of Apple education writers, his take on this and what he

00:34:12 ◼   ► thinks about it.

00:34:13 ◼   ► And I think like iBooks Author, iTunes U going away is probably not a huge surprise.

00:34:19 ◼   ► You know, Apple has actually, I think earlier this year or last year, sort of announced that,

00:34:23 ◼   ► "Hey, like we're doing iTunes U content into podcasts." Like they sort of broke off some of

00:34:28 ◼   ► the features and moved them into Apple Podcasts. So probably not a huge surprise, but still some changes.

00:34:34 ◼   ► The iBooks Author icon features a fountain pen. So I'll be sad when that goes. I'm sure I used

00:34:40 ◼   ► that I booked an offer for something at some point, but I never released it, but I'm sure

00:34:44 ◼   ► I made a book of my own.

00:34:45 ◼   ► Back when you used to be a book writer.

00:34:47 ◼   ► You know, I actually did start writing a book once. I got like many tens of thousands of

00:34:51 ◼   ► words into it and then abandoned it and I'm so pleased that I did.

00:34:54 ◼   ► You're kidding me, right?

00:34:55 ◼   ► What was it about?

00:34:56 ◼   ► Well, no, I'm not kidding. It was a guide to podcasting.

00:35:00 ◼   ► Oh, I thought it was like fiction.

00:35:01 ◼   ► And I'm just so pleased that I never released it because when I was writing it, I didn't

00:35:05 ◼   ► know anything, it turns out, compared to what I know now. And there are people that are

00:35:09 ◼   ► way better at that kind of stuff than me.

00:35:11 ◼   ► Do you still have a draft of it?

00:35:13 ◼   ► Social distancing selfies.

00:35:15 ◼   ► Boys, you want to take some selfies?

00:35:17 ◼   ► Because Apple's got a patent on a new...

00:35:20 ◼   ► Look patents typically, we don't cover them, but this one was interesting and feels like

00:35:25 ◼   ► something that if you patent this, it's to be done soon.

00:35:30 ◼   ► You would write for this exact thing.

00:35:32 ◼   ► Like, so the patent filing talks about allowing you to take pictures of people over the internet,

00:35:39 ◼   ► at making them appear to be with you. So apparently it would connect people via something like

00:35:44 ◼   ► FaceTime. So I would be able to right now call you both up somehow with this social

00:35:50 ◼   ► distancing selfie app, which will probably be built into the camera. And I could take

00:35:54 ◼   ► a picture and it looked like the two of you were behind me.

00:35:56 ◼   ► I mean, this is just sad, right? We all agree that this is just sad.

00:36:01 ◼   ► It's sad, but this is the world that we're in. And if this is the world that we're in,

00:36:05 ◼   ► to be like, so I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about this stuff. Like they also

00:36:10 ◼   ► spill into like the more general topic of entertainment. Like I see in Italy, some TV

00:36:15 ◼   ► networks are doing these programs. Like there's one starting, I believe next week or today,

00:36:21 ◼   ► maybe call like quarantine diaries. And it's like a documentary about following people

00:36:28 ◼   ► inside their houses during the lockdown. And that like, there's a show starting here called

00:36:34 ◼   ► I think it's called like lockdown wedding or something like that.

00:36:38 ◼   ► Explain to me, explain to me how is that entertainment? It just makes me sad. Like, and they show

00:36:44 ◼   ► a trailer with like people crying because they cannot leave the house. Like people getting

00:36:49 ◼   ► haircuts inside because they cannot go out anymore. Especially now that we are sort of

00:36:55 ◼   ► almost kind of past it. Like, is that really entertainment? Like, do you really want to

00:37:01 ◼   ► feed me stuff that reminds me of that horrible situation that we had to live through.

00:37:06 ◼   ► Jobs have to be done, TV schedules have to be filled.

00:37:09 ◼   ► I mean, just do reruns of something. You know. So yeah, social distance self is okay. It

00:37:21 ◼   ► just seems very sad to me. Just use FaceTime. I don't understand why.

00:37:26 ◼   ► But how do you take a selfie? Take a screenshot. Like, it's that...

00:37:29 ◼   ► No, but I want it to look like you're standing over my shoulder, you know?

00:37:33 ◼   ► But it's, you know, it's gonna look super fake.

00:37:35 ◼   ► I prefer you to be standing with me, you know, Federica.

00:37:39 ◼   ► Look, I'm all for, like, actually useful COVID-related features like contact tracing,

00:37:47 ◼   ► which I'm using now because we have the government app and it's incredible.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Like, I'm super happy about that.

00:37:53 ◼   ► But this stuff and the entertainment stuff, like, is it really necessary?

00:37:59 ◼   ► Like, I get it. It's a neat idea. It just makes me sad to think about it.

00:38:07 ◼   ► Yeah, now I can take a socially distant selfie with my mom because I cannot go visit my mom.

00:38:11 ◼   ► Like, that's super sad. In theory, I guess they're using, like, the true-death camera

00:38:16 ◼   ► when you take a selfie and they cut out the background and they put you together

00:38:19 ◼   ► and maybe they let you choose a scene. That's what I'm—

00:38:21 ◼   ► That's gonna look great.

00:38:22 ◼   ► Exactly. So, if you remember, you know, I mean, you take a look at clips, right?

00:38:29 ◼   ► clips as a feature that uses the two-depth sensor and it puts you on top of certain backgrounds,

00:38:37 ◼   ► like Tokyo or the Eiffel Tower or something. And they look pretty okay, but obviously they

00:38:43 ◼   ► look very much fake. So I don't know how you can make a selfie with another person together

00:38:50 ◼   ► that has been done remotely look real. So I guess you just go for extra fake, so like

00:38:55 ◼   ► funny backgrounds and that sort of stuff. But at the point is really a selfie. So that's

00:39:01 ◼   ► my argument. Well, let's take a break. This episode of connected is brought to you by

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00:40:34 ◼   ► Mark Gurman at Bloomberg is reporting that Apple is planning to unveil the ARM transition

00:40:39 ◼   ► at WWDC with new ARM Mac hardware being available to purchase in 2021.

00:40:46 ◼   ► from the article. Apple engineers worried that sticking to Intel's roadmap would delay or derail

00:40:53 ◼   ► some future Macs. Inside Apple, tests of new Macs with the ARM-based chips have shown sizable

00:40:58 ◼   ► improvements over Intel-powered versions, specifically in graphics performance and apps

00:41:03 ◼   ► using artificial intelligence, the people said. Apple's processors are also more power efficient

00:41:08 ◼   ► than Intel's, which may mean thinner and lighter Mac laptops in the future. And apparently, Apple

00:41:15 ◼   ► is working on three ARM chips for Macintosh's at the moment. I have some things to say before we get

00:41:21 ◼   ► into this. One, yeah, I'm sure it's better in graphics performance because Apple uses really

00:41:27 ◼   ► sad graphics parts. Like the Intel stuff they use, the built-in stuff isn't great, but even on

00:41:33 ◼   ► machines with discrete video cards or like better video cards, there's a lot better stuff out there

00:41:37 ◼   ► there than what Apple's using in video, you know, whatever happened there. So it's,

00:41:44 ◼   ► uh, like, yeah, I'm sure it is better in graphics performance as far as the other stuff, like

00:41:48 ◼   ► apps using AI, like, is that a thing normal people care about? Like, I don't know. I just,

00:41:55 ◼   ► I found like the reasons that they would maybe do it, that Gurman lists as sort of a weird

00:42:00 ◼   ► collection of things.

00:42:02 ◼   ► Yeah, but I guess like this is...

00:42:05 ◼   ► What are the things that are important to Apple?

00:42:10 ◼   ► Right? Like, artificial intelligence would be for sure.

00:42:14 ◼   ► And power efficiency would be for sure.

00:42:18 ◼   ► So like, they're the thing. These are like two of the main reasons

00:42:22 ◼   ► why they would do it, along with the fact of like, they want the control, Intel's

00:42:26 ◼   ► messing things up for them. You know, like, these are just other reasons

00:42:30 ◼   ► reasons why it would be beneficial. Like I'm sure that you could end up drawing a thing

00:42:34 ◼   ► and saying "Oh it's better for AR as well" which like no one on the Mac cares about,

00:42:38 ◼   ► except for Apple, right? Because it's important to them that these things are being considered

00:42:45 ◼   ► because it's what their roadmap looks like, I guess.

00:42:50 ◼   ► So I think this has made a lot of sense to me for a long time and I'm a big fan of this

00:42:58 ◼   ► rumor because, and I say this from sort of like an outsider, right? I don't use a Mac as my primary

00:43:07 ◼   ► machine. I use it a couple of times each week to record podcasts. But this really excites me

00:43:13 ◼   ► because of two reasons. One of them is it fits with the idea of controlling all the primary

00:43:23 ◼   ► technologies that you rely on. I'm a big fan of that principle. I try to apply that principle

00:43:30 ◼   ► to my own work. And also it's the kind of idea that, if you want to be nostalgic about

00:43:36 ◼   ► it, that Steve Jobs, he used to bring up a lot. The idea of owning the complete set of

00:43:42 ◼   ► primary technologies that you depend on. You actually make them yourself so you have full

00:43:46 ◼   ► control over your destiny. That would basically be the argument. And I think that makes a

00:43:50 ◼   ► lot of sense. So you don't depend on what used to be Motorola, now Intel, to

00:43:56 ◼   ► actually make chips for you because you make them yourself. And so you are the

00:44:01 ◼   ► master of your own destiny and your own timeline, which is a principle and

00:44:05 ◼   ► approach that I really like. And secondly, I think this is really exciting because

00:44:12 ◼   ► it paints a picture of sort of like a unified Apple platform, but not in a way

00:44:18 ◼   ► that a lot of people would suggest. So a lot of people would say, "Oh, Apple is going down

00:44:21 ◼   ► the road of a single Apple OS and a single platform that essentially lets you run iPad

00:44:29 ◼   ► apps on the Mac and iPhone apps on the Mac and Mac apps on an iPad." And I don't necessarily

00:44:35 ◼   ► think that's the case. I think, in fact, it's a lot more subtle than that and a lot more

00:44:40 ◼   ► clever than that. So if you think about it, why is it a big deal that Apple is going to

00:44:44 ◼   ► make its own chips for Macs.

00:44:48 ◼   ► And so I think, first of all,

00:44:50 ◼   ► we need to reframe how this news is presented.

00:44:53 ◼   ► A lot of people just say ARM on the Mac,

00:44:56 ◼   ► and I don't think that necessarily

00:44:57 ◼   ► paints the right picture for it.

00:44:59 ◼   ► So start thinking about it as Apple chips on the Mac.

00:45:03 ◼   ► I think that's, reframing that could be useful

00:45:08 ◼   ► to understand why this is a big deal in terms of,

00:45:12 ◼   ► if you have Apple chips on the Mac,

00:45:14 ◼   ► It means you have consistency, right?

00:45:17 ◼   ► With the same chips that run on the iPhone and the iPad.

00:45:21 ◼   ► And because of that, you, with that consistency,

00:45:25 ◼   ► to developers, you can tell the following story,

00:45:29 ◼   ► the following narrative.

00:45:31 ◼   ► Now with Apple chips on the Mac,

00:45:32 ◼   ► you have the same great performance,

00:45:34 ◼   ► you have the same set of APIs.

00:45:38 ◼   ► For example, you can access Metal

00:45:41 ◼   ► with the same performance

00:45:43 ◼   ► and the same set of instructions everywhere.

00:45:46 ◼   ► And you have a common set of tools

00:45:50 ◼   ► that is consistent everywhere.

00:45:52 ◼   ► But then instead of saying, we're

00:45:53 ◼   ► just going to unify everything, and there's

00:45:55 ◼   ► going to be a single OS, and nothing is really

00:45:58 ◼   ► going to be optimized for anything, no.

00:46:01 ◼   ► You are going to have separate OSes.

00:46:03 ◼   ► So you have Mac OS, iOS, and iPad OS.

00:46:07 ◼   ► And you are going to have separate apps

00:46:10 ◼   ► when you think about it.

00:46:11 ◼   ► you have a Mac OS app and you have an iPhone app and an iPad app. But then you have things like

00:46:16 ◼   ► Catalyst and you have things like SwiftUI and on the distribution side you have things like Universal apps.

00:46:23 ◼   ► So you do have consistency at the very low level, right?

00:46:28 ◼   ► You have the same Apple chips and you have the same, for example, cloud services and you have the App Store.

00:46:33 ◼   ► But then every single piece of it is optimized for the platform that it runs on.

00:46:39 ◼   ► So on the Mac you have apps that take advantage of the cursor and

00:46:44 ◼   ► the windowing system and that sort of stuff and an iPad you can use drag and drop and you can use the pencil and on

00:46:51 ◼   ► The iPhone you have I don't know how big haptic feedback for example and a different form factor and cellular connectivity

00:46:58 ◼   ► All that sort of stuff and the camera

00:47:00 ◼   ► so I think it makes a lot more sense rather than like

00:47:05 ◼   ► This approach, if this is indeed the approach, it completely sidesteps all these arguments that we've seen of

00:47:12 ◼   ► "Oh, the iPad should run macOS" or "Oh, it should just be a single Apple operating system that runs everywhere."

00:47:19 ◼   ► You do end up, and at the end of it, with a unified app platform

00:47:25 ◼   ► because you have, at the lowest level, a consistent experience everywhere based on the same Apple chips and the same cloud services and

00:47:34 ◼   ► the same, for example, additions to it, like the neural engine, for example.

00:47:39 ◼   ► But then every single piece of the ecosystem is optimized for what it is.

00:47:45 ◼   ► So you have iPhone apps that work great on the iPhone and Mac apps that continue to work great on the Mac.

00:47:51 ◼   ► And from the outside, as somebody who's so used to the iPhone and the iPad, the idea of

00:47:58 ◼   ► more developers will now be able to more quickly and more easily carry over their stuff to the Mac

00:48:05 ◼   ► while still be able to optimize for the Mac.

00:48:09 ◼   ► That sounds incredible to me. And if on top of that you add the benefits of, oh, performance is going to be so much better and

00:48:16 ◼   ► a MacBook's battery is going to last so much longer and the thing is going to get thinner over time and

00:48:23 ◼   ► You're not gonna have to wait for somebody else to make a chip for you. That sounds very very good to me.

00:48:30 ◼   ► So I just feel like though reframing the conversation as

00:48:35 ◼   ► This is a you know, a massive transition to Apple making the same thing everywhere. I don't think that's what's gonna happen

00:48:42 ◼   ► I think it makes sense to have the very very low level the same foundation and then each

00:48:48 ◼   ► piece of the pie is

00:48:52 ◼   ► optimized for its own nature, if that makes sense.

00:48:56 ◼   ► - I think it does make a lot of sense.

00:48:58 ◼   ► And I think they're already going down that path now.

00:49:01 ◼   ► I mean, look at something like Swift UI,

00:49:04 ◼   ► which once it's fully baked, which it's not now,

00:49:07 ◼   ► it delivers all of that.

00:49:09 ◼   ► You know, I think that's definitely where they're going.

00:49:11 ◼   ► - So, yeah, I mean,

00:49:12 ◼   ► I am very curious to see what they do here.

00:49:15 ◼   ► And I do feel like if this is one of the big announcements

00:49:19 ◼   ► for WWC 2020, this is gonna be a big chunk of the keynote,

00:49:24 ◼   ► whatever that keynote is gonna look like.

00:49:26 ◼   ► And I assume a very, an even bigger chunk

00:49:28 ◼   ► of the State of the Union,

00:49:29 ◼   ► assuming there is gonna be a State of the Union.

00:49:31 ◼   ► - Yeah, they've said there's gonna be a keynote,

00:49:33 ◼   ► they just haven't said what it'll look like.

00:49:36 ◼   ► But yeah, it'll definitely dominate the State of the Union

00:49:41 ◼   ► and probably a lot of the labs as well.

00:49:43 ◼   ► I do wanna talk a little bit about

00:49:47 ◼   ► what this could look like on the Mac,

00:49:49 ◼   ► not in the sense of what the products may be like, although I think we're gonna

00:49:51 ◼   ► get to that, but some of the like the nitty-gritty of a transition. This would

00:49:56 ◼   ► be the third CPU transition the Mac has undergone. They've undergone

00:50:02 ◼   ► from the classic Mac OS to Mac OS X. Apple's really good at this, but there's

00:50:06 ◼   ► always like real questions and a really important one, and maybe

00:50:13 ◼   ► be honestly the most important one is emulating x86 on ARM. So to rewind the

00:50:20 ◼   ► clock a bit, when Intel Macs started coming out, there were a bunch of big

00:50:26 ◼   ► titles like Microsoft Office and Photoshop etc that weren't ready for

00:50:31 ◼   ► Intel on day one and Apple included in Tiger and Leopard software called Rosetta

00:50:38 ◼   ► that allowed power PC applications to run on those Intel Macs. Now there was a

00:50:45 ◼   ► bit of a performance hit but it was better than not having Photoshop or not

00:50:50 ◼   ► having Microsoft Word until Adobe and Microsoft had those applications ready.

00:50:56 ◼   ► In Gruber's piece which we'll link to in the show notes you know he says well

00:51:01 ◼   ► there hasn't really been any rumor about you know what this Rosetta could look it

00:51:06 ◼   ► could look like this time around and he said that if he would Tibet right now he

00:51:11 ◼   ► would say there's no x86 emulation on our Macs but I think that they're I think

00:51:18 ◼   ► they may they may have to have it for those big big projects right if you can

00:51:23 ◼   ► say well I can't buy an our Mac because it doesn't run Photoshop yet that's

00:51:28 ◼   ► pretty bad even though that Apple's way bigger than it was last time they did

00:51:32 ◼   ► this. I just I don't see how they get away without doing this this time around.

00:51:37 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't I don't think there's any I don't think there's any way that

00:51:42 ◼   ► they're just gonna say this is gonna happen in these computers one these new

00:51:47 ◼   ► computers that we're gonna sell that are gonna have this Apple chips in in them

00:51:51 ◼   ► they will not run Photoshop in any way unless Adobe supports them when these

00:51:56 ◼   ► computers actually go out. That feels very unlikely to me. Mm-hmm.

00:52:00 ◼   ► Well, okay, counterpoint. What if like they've spent time identifying the applications that

00:52:08 ◼   ► would need to move and have been working with those companies already?

00:52:12 ◼   ► Oh, sure.

00:52:14 ◼   ► Like what if Microsoft and Adobe already have versions of their apps running?

00:52:21 ◼   ► Well those are two different things. I would imagine that if you're Microsoft or Adobe

00:52:25 ◼   ► and this is coming in two weeks, you already know about it. It's not going to be a surprise

00:52:29 ◼   ► your employees like watching the live stream at home. But knowing about it and

00:52:34 ◼   ► working in advance doesn't mean that it's gonna be ready on time. And

00:52:39 ◼   ► especially something like Photoshop in particular where there's so much stuff

00:52:43 ◼   ► under the hood they have to move. Look, how long did it take between a demo

00:52:48 ◼   ► of Photoshop on the iPad and it finally shipping? And then it shipped without

00:52:51 ◼   ► basic features, right? I don't know if... I just don't see them being ready

00:52:57 ◼   ► because they've never been ready. Do they have an ARM version for Windows? I'm not sure.

00:53:04 ◼   ► I don't know. Okay. But also you're taking a pretty big bet if you don't have any backwards

00:53:14 ◼   ► compatibility, any emulation layer going, you're taking a pretty big bet on like all kinds of apps

00:53:21 ◼   ► for all kinds of industries that maybe at the moment offer, like maybe you work in, I don't know,

00:53:27 ◼   ► you know, space engineering, and you have this particular application that runs on the

00:53:34 ◼   ► Mac, and now the new Mac comes out and you want to get the new Mac, but you cannot run

00:53:39 ◼   ► that app for your job, because they don't have... it comes from this unknown development

00:53:44 ◼   ► studio and they don't have a new version ready, and you cannot emulate that app on your new

00:53:49 ◼   ► Mac. And sure... Not that I am attempting to paint a position here of my own feelings,

00:53:56 ◼   ► just again to give another point to that I would feel like if that was the kind

00:54:02 ◼   ► of job you had you wouldn't buy a new Mac that easily anyway.

00:54:09 ◼   ► I mean maybe. If it's twice as fast you may be really tempted to and some real-time

00:54:15 ◼   ► follow-up there doesn't seem to be a version of Photoshop for Windows on ARM

00:54:20 ◼   ► it will emulate the 32-bit version will emulate on top of Windows for ARM we're

00:54:25 ◼   ► we're just gonna talk about in a second.

00:54:27 ◼   ► But they, as of December with this blog post,

00:54:29 ◼   ► doesn't seem like it's a thing.

00:54:33 ◼   ► - It just feels like, do you, as Apple,

00:54:36 ◼   ► are you in the position to say,

00:54:38 ◼   ► we're gonna do this major transition

00:54:41 ◼   ► and we don't care about anything that came before it?

00:54:43 ◼   ► Like, are you, can you afford to do that right now?

00:54:46 ◼   ► - Well, what if, again, don't believe this, just saying,

00:54:50 ◼   ► what if this was like, you know what,

00:54:54 ◼   ► store or go home. Again, are you in a position to do that? Like... I don't know.

00:54:59 ◼   ► No. I don't think they are. The position is that they are sort of making

00:55:05 ◼   ► this comeback for with Max as the machines for creative professionals, this

00:55:10 ◼   ► big apology tour that they've been doing for the past year, and we all know that

00:55:14 ◼   ► creative professionals, they do... most of them, they rely on tools and apps that

00:55:20 ◼   ► that don't necessarily come from the App Store and that are not necessarily updated every

00:55:26 ◼   ► couple of weeks. And so if you're selling those machines to those people, are you in

00:55:31 ◼   ► the position to say, "Oh, by the way, these new ones, we do love our creative professionals,

00:55:37 ◼   ► but we are now imposing all these new rules upon you." I don't know, it just feels counter-intuitive

00:55:43 ◼   ► to do that.

00:55:44 ◼   ► But so again, another point, what if they have no immediate plan of transitioning the

00:55:53 ◼   ► professional line?

00:55:54 ◼   ► Well that's just bad management then.

00:55:57 ◼   ► As in like what they're saying is like we're not, we're starting with the consumer line

00:56:02 ◼   ► and it's going to be a multiple year transition.

00:56:04 ◼   ► Okay, yeah I could see that.

00:56:07 ◼   ► People run Photoshop and Microsoft Word on MacBook Air too.

00:56:10 ◼   ► People cross those lines in all sorts of places.

00:56:13 ◼   ► And that problem is going to come up eventually. You're still going to have to talk about it

00:56:17 ◼   ► at some point. Like, you can say, oh, this is a multi-year deal, which, okay, I can actually

00:56:22 ◼   ► see that. But still, as Stephen said, like, I'm not a designer, but occasionally I do

00:56:28 ◼   ► need to use Photoshop. So what?

00:56:31 ◼   ► And to say it wouldn't surprise me if Apple had worked with Microsoft and Photoshop already

00:56:36 ◼   ► to make sure that they will be in place whenever those products launch. So people continue

00:56:42 ◼   ► to have a good experience.

00:56:43 ◼   ► Right?

00:56:44 ◼   ► That would not surprise me.

00:56:46 ◼   ► Emulation or no emulation?

00:56:47 ◼   ► I just don't have faith in those companies to get it done.

00:56:51 ◼   ► Anyways, let's move on because there's a lot here.

00:56:53 ◼   ► So Gruber also thinks about transition hardware.

00:56:57 ◼   ► We spoke about this before, but the Intel Switch, they had this weird tower that had

00:57:01 ◼   ► basically a PC in it.

00:57:03 ◼   ► They ran Mac OS and that was your transition hardware.

00:57:06 ◼   ► You had to give it back or they would come and take your children.

00:57:09 ◼   ► Jason and others have considered that the iPad Pro

00:57:13 ◼   ► Could be this transition thing that maybe you can like flash it to run Mac OS somehow the touchscreen doesn't work

00:57:20 ◼   ► But you have a keyboard and trackpad. I don't know

00:57:24 ◼   ► He doesn't think that that would be doable because of RAM limitations and like how much RAM is in the new iPad Pro

00:57:31 ◼   ► 666 yeah, you could run

00:57:34 ◼   ► Catalina or whatever is after Catalina on six it wouldn't be pretty but it would do it

00:57:39 ◼   ► it. Yeah, but can you imagine the precedent that it sets to see Mac OS on

00:57:43 ◼   ► an iPad? Like, that's just a bad image for Apple, I think. Like, even if it's just a

00:57:49 ◼   ► developer thing. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I've come around to thinking it will be a Mac

00:57:55 ◼   ► Mini. Hmm. Yeah, that's a perfect one, I think. You just got the mini and it's

00:58:00 ◼   ► got just the specs that you need and then everything else you can use

00:58:04 ◼   ► whatever you already own, display, keyboard and stuff.

00:58:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:58:08 ◼   ► Because, so the reasons I've been thinking Mac Mini is it's the cheapest, it's easy to ship,

00:58:17 ◼   ► it's small, it plugs into existing setups that people have or can attain relatively easily,

00:58:25 ◼   ► and also I would expect it is easier and cheaper to change out the internals of a Mac Mini to

00:58:32 ◼   ► something that it wasn't it built for than a laptop. The laptops feel

00:58:39 ◼   ► more like they are designed to have exactly what's in them and nothing more

00:58:43 ◼   ► and changing any component in one of the laptops seems to I would assume be quite

00:58:50 ◼   ► a big thing and I would expect that the Mac Mini maybe has a little bit more

00:58:54 ◼   ► room inside of it to play around with. And it's a machine that you probably

00:58:59 ◼   ► won't be able to keep, right? This is a temporary thing and so a Mac Mini

00:59:06 ◼   ► is like, yeah, you're gonna send it back and people aren't gonna want to keep them

00:59:09 ◼   ► as much as... And they don't want them broken, like laptops are easier to break.

00:59:13 ◼   ► Yeah, that's kind of where I'm thinking, like maybe this is the Mac Mini's time

00:59:17 ◼   ► to shine. So yeah, I would think I'm on board with that too, you know, I was thinking a

00:59:21 ◼   ► notebook for a little while but then all the things you said, like, well, it's more

00:59:24 ◼   ► expensive and harder to do and see because everyone will agree that the the

00:59:29 ◼   ► a notebook will be the first consumer product and I think that then we're just

00:59:33 ◼   ► like oh a MacBook will be the first arm Mac so then we all just think that the

00:59:37 ◼   ► transition hardware will be a MacBook right but like the transition hardware

00:59:41 ◼   ► will never be on sale would be the expectation right same as the last time

00:59:45 ◼   ► like I was just hearing James Thompson describe it on Mac power users episode

00:59:49 ◼   ► where it was like a G5 and opened it up and it's just a tiny board inside.

00:59:54 ◼   ► Yep. Because they just had to have some shell that they could throw it in and

00:59:58 ◼   ► ship it to people. And I didn't know this, but James mentioned it, that all the

01:00:04 ◼   ► developers that developed with those systems got a free Intel iMac. I didn't

01:00:07 ◼   ► know that. It's cool. Yeah. So moving on, Windows support. So with Intel it was a

01:00:14 ◼   ► a big deal that you could run windows, you know, parallel VMware fusion virtual box.

01:00:20 ◼   ► I remember in the early days, people trying to figure out how to boot Intel Macs into

01:00:23 ◼   ► Windows and Apple released boot camp versus a beta, and then initially a product, and

01:00:29 ◼   ► then a product they forgot about.

01:00:30 ◼   ► So I guess it'll be on that list of things killed at some point, probably, probably this

01:00:36 ◼   ► point.

01:00:37 ◼   ► So a lot of this comes from a conversation I had with our friend Steven trout Smith.

01:00:41 ◼   ► So thank you for clarifying some things for me.

01:00:44 ◼   ► is easy to talk about. Well, like Windows has Windows on ARM. You can buy an ARM powered

01:00:51 ◼   ► PC and it has Windows on it. At this point, though, Windows ARM isn't offered as a standalone

01:00:57 ◼   ► product.

01:00:58 ◼   ► Yeah, and they're also changing it, right? Because it's going to be 10x going into the

01:01:03 ◼   ► future.

01:01:04 ◼   ► Yeah, eventually.

01:01:05 ◼   ► Which isn't even a thing properly yet. So like, Microsoft are already going through

01:01:10 ◼   ► their own windows on an arm thing, then they're not in a place to be caring about putting

01:01:15 ◼   ► it on a MacBook, right? They got their own stuff going on.

01:01:19 ◼   ► So you have the fact that it's not a thing you can go by, right to install, even on arm,

01:01:26 ◼   ► most software for Windows, we talked about this with Photoshop a second ago, runs in

01:01:30 ◼   ► 32 bit emulation mode on top of Windows for ARM, because they don't have 64 bit support

01:01:38 ◼   ► on for applications for Windows on Arm. So you're talking about emulating or virtualizing,

01:01:45 ◼   ► I should say, virtualizing an OS that isn't emulating the software it's running. It's

01:01:49 ◼   ► like you're several layers down now. So that may not be that may not be super, super awesome.

01:01:55 ◼   ► That's when that would be horrible, right? Like that would run so badly. And it limits

01:01:59 ◼   ► the usefulness of Windows on Arm. There's some applications that can't do that or they

01:02:03 ◼   ► they have big performance sets if they do that.

01:02:06 ◼   ► Moving on, Apple would need to add support

01:02:08 ◼   ► for running virtual machines on their processors.

01:02:13 ◼   ► This got technical with my conversation

01:02:16 ◼   ► and I don't claim to fully understand this,

01:02:21 ◼   ► how it works at the chip level,

01:02:22 ◼   ► but in short, the A-style chips that Apple is shipping

01:02:27 ◼   ► aren't capable of running software and virtualization

01:02:31 ◼   ► the way that we think about it now.

01:02:33 ◼   ► So that would need to be a change,

01:02:34 ◼   ► which of course Apple, to your point, Federico,

01:02:36 ◼   ► they have control, so they could change it,

01:02:38 ◼   ► but it's a change they would have to make.

01:02:40 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:02:41 ◼   ► - So virtual machines, probably no go.

01:02:44 ◼   ► And then talking about bootcamp,

01:02:45 ◼   ► bootcamp doesn't actually solve any of these issues, really.

01:02:49 ◼   ► I mean, maybe if it was a product that was useful,

01:02:51 ◼   ► you could boot to it, but with the T2 chip and secure boot,

01:02:56 ◼   ► Apple's already been moving to close off multi-OS booting.

01:03:00 ◼   ► So there's a support document in the show notes that talks about secure boots.

01:03:05 ◼   ► If you don't have a T two Mac, you haven't come across this.

01:03:08 ◼   ► But you have three options.

01:03:10 ◼   ► You have full security, which means the signed OS currently trusted by Apple can run.

01:03:17 ◼   ► You have medium security.

01:03:19 ◼   ► So any version of assigned OS ever trusted by Apple can run.

01:03:24 ◼   ► So that's the one you need to be on for boot camp, I believe.

01:03:27 ◼   ► And they have no security.

01:03:28 ◼   ► Do not enforce any requirements.

01:03:30 ◼   ► whatever you want. And then there's option to disallow or allow external media booting.

01:03:35 ◼   ► So Apple's already building in the systems to the Mac to make it harder to boot from

01:03:41 ◼   ► another OS besides Mac OS and external media. So why would they if you're going to build

01:03:50 ◼   ► an ARM Mac, which means the T2 stuff can probably come in board or get better? Why would you

01:03:55 ◼   ► go through all the work to make this machine boot from other operating systems when Apple's

01:04:03 ◼   ► moving in the other direction currently.

01:04:07 ◼   ► I don't think that jives with what they've been doing already.

01:04:10 ◼   ► So I kind of think that just Windows on Macs is just going to go away.

01:04:16 ◼   ► I think it's the end.

01:04:18 ◼   ► That time is over.

01:04:19 ◼   ► Yep, that's done.

01:04:20 ◼   ► That time is done.

01:04:22 ◼   ► I would assume there are not a big portion of the user base doing this.

01:04:29 ◼   ► I would imagine that it's not massive.

01:04:32 ◼   ► There is definitely some, and our listeners would be disproportionate, so please don't

01:04:37 ◼   ► contact me to tell me you do it.

01:04:39 ◼   ► I know people do it, I know people that do it.

01:04:42 ◼   ► But my expectation is Bootcamp is not that high a priority for Apple anymore.

01:04:50 ◼   ► it was only I don't know if it's ever a priority I think it was just something

01:04:53 ◼   ► that could happen so they just went with it this is not going to be a thing that

01:04:58 ◼   ► I could imagine that they would jump through the hoops that have been

01:05:02 ◼   ► described here to make work like they were to be like that it just doesn't

01:05:05 ◼   ► work anymore that's it if you want to keep doing it but stick on Intel for a

01:05:09 ◼   ► while and then eventually when you want to upgrade you'll need a PC or buy a PC

01:05:14 ◼   ► that's what the... yeah, by a PC? yeah yeah so I think I think this is coming to an end in the arm era

01:05:22 ◼   ► hey Steven, how much did your computer cost? I don't want to talk about that

01:05:26 ◼   ► just as roughly, oh like how much could one spend on a computer like the one that you own?

01:05:34 ◼   ► you didn't buy a computer you bought a monument

01:05:40 ◼   ► How does it feel to be the owner of a computer like yours?

01:05:46 ◼   ► It was great.

01:05:48 ◼   ► I think Steve Troutensmith put it the best. Would you like to read what Steve Troutensmith tweeted?

01:05:52 ◼   ► I think you should read it. I don't want to read it.

01:05:54 ◼   ► That Mac Pro looks like a giant $10,000 coffin of obsolescence right about now.

01:05:59 ◼   ► I mean he's not wrong.

01:06:03 ◼   ► He's not wrong. But it's a long time before it's obsolete.

01:06:09 ◼   ► But, yes, but proportional to value to obsolescence is like, it's a very different equation to

01:06:20 ◼   ► what it had been in the past.

01:06:21 ◼   ► Plus I would just add an addendum that people like you, like the enthusiast person that

01:06:27 ◼   ► bought this will want one of these arm Macs.

01:06:29 ◼   ► Oh yeah, when there's an arm MacBook, even if it's like the wimpy, like a low end MacBook,

01:06:34 ◼   ► I feel like an obligation to cover it and talk about this.

01:06:37 ◼   ► there'll be one in my house as soon as possible.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I don't think that's the reason you'll buy it, but that's a good reason. The reason is

01:06:43 ◼   ► you'll want it. You will want it. Which is the same reason that you spent the amount

01:06:47 ◼   ► of money you spent on the computer that you now use is because you are a diehard Mac enthusiast.

01:06:55 ◼   ► But there is just the thing of like, it made perfect sense for Apple to build, engineer,

01:07:02 ◼   ► release this machine, even though they knew they were moving to ARM.

01:07:06 ◼   ► right? Because it makes so much sense for it to exist. In fact, really there is an argument

01:07:12 ◼   ► to be made that an ARM transition makes the idea of something like a Mac Pro that runs

01:07:17 ◼   ► an Intel chip in it even more important in a weird way because you should still have

01:07:23 ◼   ► that high-end line covered for a long period of time for the space person that Federico

01:07:28 ◼   ► was talking about earlier on, right? That you still have these machines that because

01:07:33 ◼   ► of their cost and time of development will be around for a long time, but it does make

01:07:39 ◼   ► it a little bit more tricky for the person like Steven who wanted it more than needed

01:07:47 ◼   ► it.

01:07:48 ◼   ► Sure.

01:07:49 ◼   ► It's all fair.

01:07:50 ◼   ► I don't want to throw you under the bus here.

01:07:52 ◼   ► I'm pleased you bought the Mac Pro.

01:07:54 ◼   ► Yeah, me too.

01:07:55 ◼   ► And you know, I'm not too concerned about it being obsolete any sooner because of this.

01:08:00 ◼   ► So again, like looking at how they did it last time, Tiger for Intel launched, or was

01:08:06 ◼   ► announced in the summer of 2005.

01:08:11 ◼   ► The first Intel Mac shipped in January 06.

01:08:14 ◼   ► All Macs were Intel by the summer of 06.

01:08:17 ◼   ► Snow Leopard went Intel only in the fall of 2009.

01:08:20 ◼   ► So you had three years of the end of Tiger, Leopard, and then Snow Leopard said, "Hey,

01:08:27 ◼   ► no more PowerPC Macs."

01:08:28 ◼   ► I remember how long was that those Macs or leopard supported until that was was did leopard

01:08:35 ◼   ► continue to have a life after snow leopard just under security updates right but like

01:08:40 ◼   ► that's the important part though like that's kind of what I'm referring to yeah yeah so

01:08:44 ◼   ► say that the first our mat comes out in 2021 you have os support till 2023 2024 and then

01:08:53 ◼   ► you get two to three years of security updates past that because currently apple really releases

01:08:58 ◼   ► security updates for N minus two. So right now it's Catalina, Mojave, and High Sierra

01:09:03 ◼   ► get security updates. So that's really five, six, seven years of support depending on which

01:09:10 ◼   ► way the pie gets cut. And that's assuming that the arm transition moves as quickly as

01:09:15 ◼   ► the Intel one did, which I think a lot of people wonder that. Again, going back to Gruber's

01:09:20 ◼   ► PC says, well, it will move faster. I think it will go quick. Well, and well, Gruber's

01:09:25 ◼   ► point is we haven't seen Apple's high end ARM chips, but they wouldn't be doing this

01:09:30 ◼   ► if they couldn't make an iMac Pro or a Mac Pro run with ARM processors. So you know,

01:09:36 ◼   ► if I get six or seven years of software support out of this computer, yeah, like I really

01:09:40 ◼   ► would want 10. But six or seven isn't. It's not great, but it's not a nightmare. Like

01:09:47 ◼   ► I don't regret buying this thinking that our Macs are right around the corner, especially

01:09:51 ◼   ► because I think that just like on the Intel switch, that the power Mac to the Mac Pro

01:09:57 ◼   ► was the last one. And I think that will be the case for this too. And I think there could

01:10:01 ◼   ► be a case that maybe Apple supports the Xeon machines longer than the the other Intel machines

01:10:09 ◼   ► because they were so expensive and so high end. I don't know. I think I think we got

01:10:13 ◼   ► to see where that goes. But I'm not super worried about it at this point.

01:10:17 ◼   ► I think though that this transition will bring cooler products and you will move away from

01:10:27 ◼   ► the Mac Pro faster than you would have with a Mac.

01:10:29 ◼   ► Cooler than a Mac Pro?

01:10:32 ◼   ► It's full of drives.

01:10:34 ◼   ► The definition of cool is interesting there.

01:10:36 ◼   ► I would expect that you will be more tempted by what Apple could make post-arm transition

01:10:43 ◼   ► than you would have been pre-arm transition.

01:10:47 ◼   ► just my feeling on that one. Yeah we'll see the price is obviously a big

01:10:51 ◼   ► sticking point right. You will sell that to Kyle and then buy an iMac Pro again

01:10:57 ◼   ► that's what's gonna happen. You know it too. You know it. I cannot this machine

01:11:05 ◼   ► was so expensive. Okay this episode 298 recorded in June of 2020 I have said

01:11:16 ◼   ► what I have said, Steven has said what he has said, the history books have been recorded

01:11:22 ◼   ► of this conversation. Federico, would you like to enter any statement in before we close

01:11:26 ◼   ► the chapter on what has just been stated by me and Steven?

01:11:30 ◼   ► Oh, he's gonna buy a new Mac Pro, whatever that's gonna look like as soon as it gets

01:11:35 ◼   ► announced for sure. And whatever the new Pro thinks it's gonna be, he's gonna buy one.

01:11:41 ◼   ► And he's gonna sell his existing Mac Pro, we all know it. This shouldn't even be a conversation

01:11:46 ◼   ► It's just a fact.

01:11:48 ◼   ► Yeah, like, just the mere idea of what is currently sitting under your desk proves this

01:11:55 ◼   ► entire point.

01:11:56 ◼   ► Yeah, you're not going to be able to live with the feeling of knowing that you're owning

01:12:01 ◼   ► a piece of discontinued hardware.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Wait, no, no, no, that's not correct.

01:12:06 ◼   ► Think of who you're saying it's to.

01:12:09 ◼   ► Steven loves discontinued hardware more than anybody else.

01:12:13 ◼   ► You're not going to be able, so let me rephrase, you're not going to be able to live with the

01:12:15 ◼   ► feeling that you're not using the latest and greatest Pro computer from Apple.

01:12:19 ◼   ► Yes, that's better. It was moved from under the desk to the shelf, is what you're

01:12:23 ◼   ► saying. Yes. No, I think you're gonna sell it, but maybe you're gonna keep like

01:12:28 ◼   ► parts of it. Mmm. Keep the feet and ship it to somebody without any feet on it.

01:12:33 ◼   ► Yeah, just keep those. Yeah, and that will be a machine to sell. I would expect

01:12:38 ◼   ► those Mac Pros will retain value for quite a while. So like, it won't be too

01:12:43 ◼   ► difficult for you to move but you will move as soon as something exciting

01:12:48 ◼   ► enough comes along. Especially if Apple doesn't have emulation, right? It's like I

01:12:53 ◼   ► can't run any x86 apps. Somebody will be stuck in a in a bad spot with that.

01:12:57 ◼   ► Mm-hmm. Okay well let's there's more Mac stuff to talk about but let's take our

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01:14:24 ◼   ► New iMac.

01:14:25 ◼   ► This is a tweet from Sunny Dixon who has been spot on

01:14:30 ◼   ► with some of their reports recently.

01:14:32 ◼   ► A new iMac is incoming at WWDC.

01:14:35 ◼   ► iPad Pro design language with Pro display like bezels,

01:14:39 ◼   ► T2 chip, AMD Navi GPU, and no more fusion drive.

01:14:44 ◼   ► Sounds pretty good.

01:14:46 ◼   ► People complain about the iMac with the bezels

01:14:49 ◼   ► and the design hasn't been updated since 2012.

01:14:52 ◼   ► - And the spinning disks.

01:14:54 ◼   ► - And the spinning disks, which is ridiculous.

01:14:57 ◼   ► And so this would be a modern iMac inside and out.

01:15:00 ◼   ► - Can I just say about the iPad Pro design, quote unquote,

01:15:04 ◼   ► This is just Apple's 2020 design language, right?

01:15:07 ◼   ► Like the iPhone is apparently going to get those flat edges.

01:15:10 ◼   ► The iMac may get, I guess, flat edges.

01:15:14 ◼   ► I don't exactly know how it would translate from iPad to iMac,

01:15:19 ◼   ► but there are some ways that it could.

01:15:20 ◼   ► I think this is just going to be the design language, right?

01:15:25 ◼   ► For a bit, it seems like.

01:15:26 ◼   ► I mean, I wouldn't complain.

01:15:29 ◼   ► It's a pretty good design language, especially if they do like,

01:15:32 ◼   ► Imagine iPhone, iPad Pro, and iMac all with the same like flat edges and stuff like that would look lovely

01:15:37 ◼   ► And I'm not even an iMac person, but that would look fantastic. I think mm-hmm. They go to an Apple watch like that

01:15:43 ◼   ► honestly

01:15:45 ◼   ► I'm kidding, but

01:15:47 ◼   ► Kind of fun to know no they could there's no reason why they couldn't is jab your wrist anytime you bend your yeah

01:15:53 ◼   ► Watches have sharp edges so there seems to be some smoke here iMac shit dates are

01:16:02 ◼   ► Slipping it's according to 9 to 5 max especially the 27 inch model

01:16:05 ◼   ► Which I does make me worry like are they gonna leave the 21 is terrible and old but who knows?

01:16:10 ◼   ► Wasn't there a rumor of like a 20

01:16:15 ◼   ► Yeah, like it was like some some room moving it to 23 and 27. I think or 23 and 29

01:16:23 ◼   ► I don't remember but making it a little bit bigger

01:16:26 ◼   ► That I don't know if last time you guys sat down at 21 inch display. Oh, Federico you are right now

01:16:31 ◼   ► you have LG 4k. It's not the biggest thing in the world. It could a lot of people want

01:16:35 ◼   ► something bigger. I think I want something bigger. I like my 27 inch display.

01:16:40 ◼   ► Well, you want bigger than that. I don't know. You know, I haven't looked at a pro display

01:16:44 ◼   ► XDR outside of Apple's hands on thing at WWDC last year, but I know john sicusa talked about

01:16:50 ◼   ► it how like the third is 32 inches, right? You have to really like, move your head to

01:16:54 ◼   ► see everything and that could be weird, maybe. But like 2727 is great.

01:17:00 ◼   ► According to the China Times spotted by Mac Otakara, 23 inch iMac rumored to launch in the second half of 2020.

01:17:09 ◼   ► So that would be that, right? Because if you take the 21 inch iMac and reduce the bezels, maybe you get close to 23 anyway.

01:17:25 ◼   ► Right?

01:17:26 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:27 ◼   ► So that could be how you end up with that screen size.

01:17:30 ◼   ► So I have a question.

01:17:31 ◼   ► Yeah, like they did the 16 inch MacBook Pro.

01:17:35 ◼   ► So I have a question.

01:17:37 ◼   ► Intel or ARM?

01:17:38 ◼   ► I think so.

01:17:39 ◼   ► I just want to say like you can show it off at WWDC, but it could come December, January,

01:17:47 ◼   ► like they've done in the past.

01:17:49 ◼   ► The Mac Pro was shown off this way.

01:17:50 ◼   ► The iMac Pro was shown off this way.

01:17:52 ◼   ► it is not out of the ordinary for Apple to also as well as say like we have this computer

01:17:58 ◼   ► it's available now, say we have this computer it's available later. Like it would be you

01:18:02 ◼   ► know I can there are multiple schools of thought on this right that you can say well you wouldn't

01:18:08 ◼   ► want to show that you're moving away from Intel and then say buy this new expensive

01:18:12 ◼   ► computer it has an Intel chip in it but you can also say well you want a product that

01:18:17 ◼   ► that people will still want to buy

01:18:19 ◼   ► because people won't want to buy Intel Macs anyway,

01:18:22 ◼   ► like will want to buy them less.

01:18:24 ◼   ► So if you have a cool Intel Mac

01:18:26 ◼   ► that you're also putting on sale,

01:18:28 ◼   ► maybe that will continue some Mac sales going

01:18:30 ◼   ► as even though people are ready to move.

01:18:32 ◼   ► I actually don't know how I feel about that,

01:18:34 ◼   ► but I could still imagine this being like,

01:18:37 ◼   ► oh, and this is going to be the first computer

01:18:40 ◼   ► that people buy and it's an ARM iMac.

01:18:43 ◼   ► - Maybe, and again, like,

01:18:46 ◼   ► Forgive me for going back to this well, but this is what they've done before.

01:18:51 ◼   ► Right?

01:18:52 ◼   ► Those first Intel machines, there was an iMac and a MacBook Pro.

01:18:56 ◼   ► But the iMac G5 got a redesign late in '05, like three months, I think before the Intel

01:19:05 ◼   ► one came out, it was the iMac G5 with eyesight.

01:19:09 ◼   ► And the Intel iMac looked just like it.

01:19:12 ◼   ► It's like there were some people I think who I'm sure were upset that they bought an iMac

01:19:15 ◼   ► with a camera in it and then it got way better three months later but it could

01:19:20 ◼   ► be that we see this iMac pretty soon and then it moves to arm later it's like

01:19:24 ◼   ► hey it's the same iMac I mean in the past when they've done this most of the

01:19:29 ◼   ► Macs look pretty much the same the only difference is the iBook went to the

01:19:33 ◼   ► MacBook which is drastically different so I could see this falling on the Intel

01:19:36 ◼   ► side of things pretty easily. What about biometrics? Like FaceAG? Yeah.

01:19:43 ◼   ► Face ID, Touch ID, like could you imagine anything in this computer that would be more

01:19:53 ◼   ► than this or do you think they may want to just continue to double down on the Apple

01:19:59 ◼   ► Watch as the biometric unlocking option for desktop Macs?

01:20:04 ◼   ► In Face ID it would make sense, right?

01:20:06 ◼   ► You're sitting in front of it.

01:20:08 ◼   ► So that would be pretty sweet.

01:20:12 ◼   ► And I think the Apple Watch, the authentication system, it works okay.

01:20:16 ◼   ► It's pretty nice actually, but it requires you to have an Apple Watch.

01:20:20 ◼   ► So I do think they could do, especially because they have the T-tube stuff going, they could

01:20:25 ◼   ► do Face ID.

01:20:27 ◼   ► And it would be like, when you think about it, like the ideal form factor, because you're

01:20:32 ◼   ► sitting right in front of it, so it's looking straight at you.

01:20:36 ◼   ► And on the Mac you wouldn't even have, well, you wouldn't necessarily have the same constraints

01:20:43 ◼   ► space-wise as an iPhone in terms of like fitting the sensor in a tiny, tiny housing.

01:20:50 ◼   ► So it will make a lot of sense I think.

01:20:54 ◼   ► Touch ID, you're going to have Touch ID where?

01:20:57 ◼   ► In a wireless keyboard or like at the side of the iMac, like you just press your finger

01:21:02 ◼   ► to the side of the computer because there's a fingerprint reader there.

01:21:06 ◼   ► I think the most obvious place would be the power button of a wireless keyboard.

01:21:10 ◼   ► But I think we talked about this before, that the difficulties of having biometrics in a

01:21:17 ◼   ► wireless keyboard that needs to talk over Wi-Fi and Bluetooth.

01:21:22 ◼   ► We don't know if that's possible yet.

01:21:24 ◼   ► Well, but both the Apple Watch and the phone are doing biometric authentication and sending

01:21:30 ◼   ► that to the Mac for different things.

01:21:33 ◼   ► things. Yeah, I mean the Apple Watch is basically its own computer. So, like what you need,

01:21:40 ◼   ► the Apple Watch also you need to unlock it when you put it on. And the Magic, like a

01:21:45 ◼   ► Magic keyboard, what you would unlock the Magic keyboard so that it authenticates you

01:21:49 ◼   ► and then you can use Touch ID? I don't know.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Well Touch ID would be the unlocking of the keyboard but I think it's too much for a keyboard

01:21:58 ◼   ► to put enough of the chips inside of it that it could do the authentication.

01:22:03 ◼   ► So face ID will make the most sense.

01:22:05 ◼   ► Yeah, and they could have that as a big pitch to why our Macs are better.

01:22:09 ◼   ► Oh, we can do this now.

01:22:10 ◼   ► Like, maybe they could have done it before with the T2, but they may make a big deal

01:22:13 ◼   ► of it.

01:22:14 ◼   ► Right.

01:22:15 ◼   ► As this is a feature of our Macs.

01:22:17 ◼   ► And, you know, keep touch ID on the notebooks.

01:22:19 ◼   ► I think touch ID on laptops is great.

01:22:21 ◼   ► It's on the keyboard, your hands are already there, the you know, the literally thin, but

01:22:26 ◼   ► Like the iMac has got room in there.

01:22:28 ◼   ► The pro display definitely has room in there.

01:22:31 ◼   ► So I could see this playing out that way as a Oh, you've always wanted this and if you

01:22:36 ◼   ► want it, you got to upgrade.

01:22:38 ◼   ► You mentioned the pro display.

01:22:40 ◼   ► What about a non pro display, a pro display non XDR?

01:22:46 ◼   ► I would like that I've got the LG 5k and I'm happy with it.

01:22:50 ◼   ► But I think a lot of people would like an Apple branded 5k, you know, 27 inch display,

01:22:57 ◼   ► it's a really good size.

01:22:59 ◼   ► And having the features of the pro display aren't important to a lot of people, I don't

01:23:04 ◼   ► need a bajillion nits of brightness for extended dynamic range, color monitoring, right?

01:23:12 ◼   ► Like I don't need that.

01:23:13 ◼   ► And I don't want to pay for it, which is why I have an LG 5k.

01:23:16 ◼   ► But having something that looks like it using this new design language, which I agree with

01:23:21 ◼   ► y'all is really nice.

01:23:23 ◼   ► But just like an iMac without the guts just turned into display, that'd be fantastic.

01:23:28 ◼   ► And they haven't done it.

01:23:29 ◼   ► And I think, I think they've probably heard from a lot of Mac Pro and Mac Mini users,

01:23:35 ◼   ► even notebook users who use it in clamshell mode, that they want an Apple display that

01:23:39 ◼   ► is not what the pro display XDR is.

01:23:42 ◼   ► And so maybe that could be based on this design as well.

01:23:46 ◼   ► So I think that does it this week.

01:23:48 ◼   ► Next week we will be doing our annual Ricky's, our picks for WBCC, so be prepared for that.

01:23:56 ◼   ► We're looking forward to that.

01:23:58 ◼   ► It's kind of weird that this week is probably when WBCC would be, maybe last week.

01:24:03 ◼   ► And so it feels, I feel like my idea of what summer is is off a little bit, but I'll be

01:24:08 ◼   ► glad to get into some WBCC stuff with you guys in the next several weeks.

01:24:14 ◼   ► I'm excited.

01:24:15 ◼   ► I am excited.

01:24:17 ◼   ► - I can tell.

01:24:18 ◼   ► - You excited?

01:24:19 ◼   ► Yeah, let's go!

01:24:20 ◼   ► Duh-duh.

01:24:21 ◼   ► - Okay.

01:24:22 ◼   ► Too much.

01:24:23 ◼   ► - Too much?

01:24:24 ◼   ► I mean, I hit my desk earlier and said we have a gate, so.

01:24:27 ◼   ► I had some caffeine.

01:24:29 ◼   ► It's very exciting.

01:24:31 ◼   ► - Now he's back with the ASMR stuff.

01:24:33 ◼   ► - If you wanna find links to stuff we spoke about,

01:24:35 ◼   ► head on over to the website, relay.fm/connected/298.

01:24:38 ◼   ► While you're there, there's a lot of fun activities.

01:24:43 ◼   ► You can check out those links.

01:24:43 ◼   ► go visit the websites we spoke about definitely go check out that john oliver video but you

01:24:49 ◼   ► can also do some other things you can send me an email with feedback or follow up if

01:24:53 ◼   ► it's mean i just send it to mike to deal with but if it's nice i keep it for myself because

01:24:58 ◼   ► i like a little sunshine in my day if stephen sends me me and feedback i will just archive

01:25:03 ◼   ► it if you want to join relay fm to support connected directly you can do that as well

01:25:10 ◼   ► on that page. If you were on Twitter and you want to get in touch there, we're there, we're

01:25:14 ◼   ► hanging out. You can find Myke there as I-M-Y-K-E. You can find Myke's work all over Relay FM,

01:25:22 ◼   ► a bunch of shows. I would say if you haven't checked out the test drivers, I'm really enjoying

01:25:27 ◼   ► it. So go check that out with Austin Evans. That's a show that is in the top of my queue

01:25:30 ◼   ► when it comes out. Yeah, I really like Austin. You're okay, but Austin's pretty cool. Austin's

01:25:35 ◼   ► the real winner. If you want to find Federico online he is at Vitici. He is the editor-in-chief

01:25:42 ◼   ► of MacStories.net. I'm sure you guys have a lot planned for WWDC. Yeah. But you just

01:25:49 ◼   ► know you're not gonna do anything? Yeah, no we do. I agree with you. Good. That's good.

01:25:55 ◼   ► I'm glad you... John's doing it right? John's gonna be busy. It's not like I'm doing nothing.

01:26:00 ◼   ► I'm overseeing.

01:26:01 ◼   ► Oh yeah, the management, yeah.

01:26:03 ◼   ► You're the president of MacStories.

01:26:06 ◼   ► Yes.

01:26:07 ◼   ► You just did this big thing about OmniFocus that people should go read.

01:26:10 ◼   ► We'll put that in the show notes for people to check out.

01:26:12 ◼   ► It's great.

01:26:13 ◼   ► I mean, you could do it probably with Remember the Milk or whatever, but...

01:26:18 ◼   ► Sure.

01:26:19 ◼   ► I mean, you actually can do custom views in Remember the Milk, but I don't think you can

01:26:25 ◼   ► do the custom icons for those views.

01:26:27 ◼   ► Your perspective stuff is really interesting.

01:26:29 ◼   ► it has me rethinking everything. So thanks for that.

01:26:33 ◼   ► What are you on right now? What are you gonna switch from and to?

01:26:37 ◼   ► I'm an introduce.

01:26:38 ◼   ► Yeah. You're an introduce.

01:26:40 ◼   ► I always come back to it.

01:26:41 ◼   ► He talks. Yes, he does all this big talk about "remember the milk?" He hasn't used the thing

01:26:46 ◼   ► in years.

01:26:47 ◼   ► Never uses it.

01:26:48 ◼   ► I don't know why. Are you like part of an affiliate program or something that you keep

01:26:52 ◼   ► bringing it up?

01:26:55 ◼   ► You take your money from Big Milk.

01:26:57 ◼   ► The Big Milk industry.

01:26:58 ◼   ► I can't drink real milk. So I got involved with a software company with milk in their

01:27:04 ◼   ► name.

01:27:05 ◼   ► Hmm. You got fake milk only.

01:27:07 ◼   ► You can find me on Twitter as ismh and my writing at 512 pixels.net. I just did a video

01:27:12 ◼   ► about the white iPhone four because iPhone four turned 10 years old this past weekend

01:27:16 ◼   ► and it was fun to talk about the really weird story of a phone that barely made it out the

01:27:22 ◼   ► door. So go watch that if you haven't watched it. I think our sponsors this week, Pingdom,

01:27:27 ◼   ► ExpressVPN and Miro. And until next week, the week of the Rickies, say goodbye.

01:27:33 ◼   ► Arrivederci.

01:27:34 ◼   ► Cheerio.

01:27:35 ◼   ► Love you, bye.