The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► we didn't talk about this on the show [TS]

00:00:01 ◼   ► but the most important revelation of [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► cases video him sending me the dollar is [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► just how terrible is in writing is my [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► wow so here's why it's extra awful like [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► my handwriting is like chicken scratch I [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► have terrible handwriting right but [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► yours is terrible but then it has an [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► extra flavor and the extra flavor it's [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► terrible you and you do unconventional [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► things you connect the letters in ways [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► that other people don't so it's not just [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► you let your sloppily drawing the letter [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► shapes you decide that two letters [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► should be connected like in in ways that [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► are not normal so it's it's just hard to [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► parse you're like is this this even [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► English letters I don't even know what [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► your boy that bad handwriting marketing [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► before the show that he was having a [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► little bit of troubles with the [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► livestream and and I don't understand [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► why for a moment until you started [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► explaining to me what's going on and [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► then I realized oh yes i'm having [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► similar problems but manifesting [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► themselves in different ways so why [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► don't you tell the listeners what's [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► going on [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► ok so as you might have noticed the [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► tweet that announce that we are going to [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► be live the the time duration that was [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► in that we normally it's like we'll be [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► live in 45 minutes you know usually at [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► tristar livestream about a half hour or [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► a little more before recording and today [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► the time interval was seven minutes 48 [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► minutes i forget which one [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► and the reason it looks longer set up i [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► was here at eight-thirty i was here at [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► the 30-minute mark trying to get going [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► and I realize all afternoon and evening [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► hover has been going through this [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► massive ddos attack that has taken down [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► among other things their dns servers [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► market organs who is hosted by hover [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► registered over and I use their dns [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► market orgs VPS is what hosts the [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► icecast server the powers this live [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► stream is basically spent the last half [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► hour trying to first see if i can get it [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► working just by IP address but that was [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► going to be tricky because of various [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► virtual hosting things and eventually i [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► just created a whole new host name [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► however didn't register dot FM's for a [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► while I actually don't know if they do I [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► think they might now but for a long time [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► they didn't register dot FM's so ATP FM [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► is registered at Gandhi dotnet so I [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► quickly ran over there created a new [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► domain name live by ATP FM hopeful hope [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► that propagated in time you know to be [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► requested by anybody and fortunately it [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► did I created that name like 840 and [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► basically move the whole thing over to [TS]

00:02:25 ◼   ► that and it's point to the same IP point [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► the same server and basically required [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► only a very quick creation of a new [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► virtual host on the market or server to [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► just recognize that hostname give it a [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► little like tiny little HTML page that [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► basically embed the audio player and [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► that all worked and it was great and [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► there we go so now we are streaming from [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► live by ATP dfm instead of market org [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► colon 8080 or whatever it was and [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► actually appears the the dns is my [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► actually had just ended but oh well [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► people are starting to tweet at me [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► saying oh your sites and sites and sites [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► down and out for a fleeting moment I was [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► like oh did I get fireball that's [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► exciting or something like that then I [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► thought no this was just a link post I [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► wouldn't be fireballs for that and then [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► it occurred to me oh no this is a much [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► greater issue entirely it i think it [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► really says a lot about how little i [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► blog anymore that my site has basically [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► been up and down for the last five or [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► six hours whenever this started [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► mm and I got in total one tweet about it [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► oh I'm so i'm so glad that i haven't had [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► to deal with stuff like that in my [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► various server administration stuff [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► that's got to be held deal with deal [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► with DDoS yeah i can imagine especially [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► if you mean imagine if you hover where [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► your you know your your hosting dns for [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► so many people like that that's good [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► that's your business to some degree and [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► God [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► No thank you I'm glad that's not my [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► problem i'm curious for the people in [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► the chat who are recommending different [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► dns providers i guess i don't know this [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► i probably should know this isn't your [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► registrar like the top authority so like [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► if somebody had a totally empty cache [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► let's suppose my burger star is still [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► hover but suppose I host the dns [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► somewhere else like cloudflare whatever [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► if a new request goes to fetch my dns [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► that has no cash information and any [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► stage it away is at first going to go to [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► my register r2 c2 the nse's and then go [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► to the NS so it basically like wood what [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► I have to check my record store in order [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► to prevent this from being from ever hit [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► me again how would you how would it know [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► you go to your registrar I don't know [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► how does it I don't know how did how [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► does dns actually work at the very low [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► level i have no idea you should read a [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► lot of the o'reilly books on dns and [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► buying something vague recollection and [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► the only way that occurs to me now as I [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► think about it was probably informed by [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► my vague recollection is if you've got [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► no information you can't start by going [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► to the name server for that domain [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► because you don't know what the name [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► server domain is so there's a set of [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► root nameservers that handle requests at [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► you know that you that shouldn't handle [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► requests at all because there was so [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► many layers of cashing in between but if [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► you really started from nothing to set [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► of root nameservers for.com and.net not [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► whatever and I don't know who those root [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► nameservers are and I don't know if [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► there is a more complicated system in [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► place that makes this old information [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► obviously because i read this book in [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► the nineties but that is my recollection [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► yeah and other people chatting to be [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► supporting the fact that basically like [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► if you don't use your registrar's [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► nameservers that your regular is not [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► involved in looking you up for dns van [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► anyway that goes up up through the I can [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► and Aaron maintained master server stuff [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► like that you're saying so it sounds [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► like I can stick with her for the [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► registration and just move the dns [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► somewhere else so that's good i think i [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► might do that just move it somewhere [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► smaller basically it's time for you to [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► run your own dns server hey why don't [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► you write your own dns server it's a [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► sense of thing that people have done [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► before [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► just ask those people they they love it [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► well actually it's funny bring this up [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► and I'm not trying to be funny one thing [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► that that I've wondered i keep meaning [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► to ask Marco but i but i keep forgetting [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► about it and this is a perfect [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► opportunity when you're building tumblr [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► and you are giving people subdomains [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► weren't you well maybe not you [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► personally but I'm saying tumblr was [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► making someone was giving people [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► submarines how did that work exactly it [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► excellent question so the problem as you [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► know but our listeners might not you [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► know basically the idea is if you have [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► some giant web service and you try to [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► have people like hosted remains there so [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► basically pointing their dns to you if [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► they're hosting a sub-domain like [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► www.usps.com they can point that to a [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► cname and a cname could just be like you [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► know host at squarespace.com at or [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► whatever and [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► and then that PostScript that can lead [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► anywhere square face wanted to it could [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► lead to a whole bunch of load balancers [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► can be geographically distributed can be [TS]

00:06:47 ◼   ► moved around between hosting servers it [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► needs to [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► it's great the problem is that the very [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► root entry so like instead of [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► www.icelebz.com if it's just Casey [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► list.com with no W that can't point to a [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► scene that has to be an a record for it [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► to work in a record he needs to be an IP [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► address so you basically have to have a [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► special kind of IP address that you can [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► route to different servers as needed or [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► you could like if you just have that as [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► a load balancer they sold there are [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► certain very advanced routing things you [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► can do to make that not crazy but [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► they're not easy and they are limited [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► when usually only have when you have the [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► IP instead of instead of like a cname [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► what we did for the first couple years [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► tumblr started a rackspace they started [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► out with one server rack space and [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► eventually grew to three servers [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► Rackspace and then it was like oh Sh [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► rackspace is ridiculously expensive we [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► will never be able to afford to scale [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► here so we very quickly moved over to [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► what was then called the planet which is [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► now today softlayer we had already [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► started telling people to point their [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► their names at this one IP that we had a [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► Rackspace's usual it was are like master [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► server with a load balancer on it we [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► moved to the planet we kept one server [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► at rackspace for a long time I i had to [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► be at least two years into intertemporal [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► like insane growth where if you had [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► looked at our dns help page before [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► assert before like you know six months [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► into into the service you your domain [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► would have been point there which is [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► many of our very large users being [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► proxied through forget whether it was [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► squid or a crap what's that shape Roxy [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► yes it was quitter a proxy running on [TS]

00:08:31 ◼   ► this one rackspace server for years [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► proxy all this old traffic and [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► eventually shut that down i think but it [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► was years and years into the service and [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► then we're at the planet we basically [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► had like some kind of floating IP that [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► their routers could assign to anything [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► within the data center and that that [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► made that a little bit easier and i'm [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► sure with like geo dns you might have [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► more options i don't know enough about [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► say fortunately about time company to [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► care about stuff like that i was gone it [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► was my job anymore but with it but that [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► was all for like me redirecting my own [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► domains hit to tumblr right so how does [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► like something got tumblr.com work [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► though [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► well that's that's just a wild-card [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► virtualhost that's like like the the web [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► servers just literally had wildcard [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► virtual host and the insulating like the [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► the PHP app that would get the invite [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► request which is look at the host name [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► was and then dispatches from there [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► that's cheating why I don't know I'm [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► just kidding [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► it wasn't much i was expecting this like [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► super long and involved answer and I was [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► super simple and boring i'm disappointed [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► sorry but that's alright I'll forgive [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► you this once all right we should [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► probably get to follow proper i think i [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► have all of the follow up this week [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► which is making not very uncomfortable [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► to be honest but we're gonna roll with [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► it if I'm here Casey and you're here [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► doesn't make it our follow-up the am but [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► I am the one who put all of the three [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► bullets into the into the show notes [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► which is I should first and I'm not [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► feeling too comfortable with this [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► I mean in reality isn't always basically [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► John's follow-up basically but here we [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► are [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► so anyway I'm a friend of the show's [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► dietrich-smith put up Twitter poll don't [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► know week ago maybe a little over a week [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► ago [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► it says listening to the latest HP FM [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► curious did you turn on desktop and [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► documents iCloud sink in mac OS Sierra i [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► did and i'm happy with it now [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► steve is a very prolific iOS developer [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► hacker so you have to consider that when [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► you consider the people sort of person [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► that is likely to follow him and the [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► poll results results as we record [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► 30-percent yes and I'm happy with it [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► four percent yes and I regretted it [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► twenty-nine percent know and the winner [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► 37-percent hell no I just thought was [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► kind of interesting so yeah so thanks to [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► Steve for putting that up i don't [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► believe in the official twitter client [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► thus I cannot create polls I love seeing [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► that the EMT the empty space where polls [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► should be as eyebrows twitter yet you [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► can sense like this must be a pole but [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► this to it doesn't make sense [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► oh well i'll never see it and I [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► you on my way yeah so this obviously [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► this is not a scientific poll whatever [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► it's just twitter stuff the fact that [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► most people have been scared away from [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► this feature like i said if it's a bunch [TS]

00:11:15 ◼   ► of nerds following you know I never [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► Twitter account and makes sense that [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► they would be the people who are reading [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► reviews and becoming or listen to our [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► podcast and being scared away from the [TS]

00:11:23 ◼   ► feature so that's why the vast majority [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► of like no I did not enable this feature [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► and that's why hell no wins because [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► these people are afraid of the future [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► because they read scary things about the [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► other possibility is if you know even if [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► they do the things they read about her [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► and that scary they may be in a [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► situation like me where they know [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► they're now liar that they have a lot of [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► files or they have some very large files [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► and I think you've never works for most [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► people i know i'm at the edge of the [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► envelope here and I probably shouldn't [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► enable it but if you just look at the [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► people who did in a bullet most unhappy [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► with it right so four percent yes and I [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► regretted isn't isn't that big number [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► and of course the people are happy with [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► it maybe they're happy with it now you [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► wait a year to see how happy they are [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► because you know all it takes is one [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► thing that goes awry it you become you [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► know upset about but anyway um yeah it's [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► really difficult to get a read on these [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► things without an actual an actual study [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► controlling for all the variables [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► especially when nerdy people like us ask [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► about it because it's a self-selecting [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► group i wanted to also briefly touch on [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► my headphones [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► last week we had talked about how my [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► beloved but ancient and adorably crappy [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► headphones i had kicked the bucket well [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► sort of [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► they weren't cooperating well with my [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► work laptop with Sierra which is the [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► laptop that they're pretty much always [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► connected to and I'd solicited [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► suggestions for alternatives and [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► promptly ignored every single one of [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► them because guess what headphones [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► spontaneously started working again the [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► old crappy adorable headphones yeah yeah [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► i was very excited about this [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► I did you a PM reset which I didn't have [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► a chance to do before the show [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► of course this was I was shotgunning and [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► just trying everything under the Sun to [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► try to figure out how to make them work [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► again and i'm not entirely clear what it [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► was that did it for sure i think i had [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► rebooted at least once it is that what [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► shotgunning means it's like trying to [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► headphones at once yes I'm like that I [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► don't steal shotguns they spray a bunch [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► of little pellets everywhere at least [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► that's my understanding [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► I don't don't don't even [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► me and now we're here for gun people i [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► know place tonight I'm so sorry god I'm [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► so sorry anyway um so I wanted to [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► quickly cover a handful of options if [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► you're in a similar scenario that i [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► heard a lot of responses from the first [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► one the motorola motorola s305 these [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► links will be in the show notes [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► those are the ones I used prior to the [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► ones that i am currently using and i [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► love them except that the battery went [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► to crap pretty darn quickly and I used [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► to be able to make it through an entire [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► day very fast and by honor maybe six [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► months or a year after getting them i [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► could no longer make an entire day with [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► the s05 there were a lot of suggestions [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► for the plantronics backbeat it which [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► have the behind the neck head bone head [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► bone wow the behind the neck brace if [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► you will that I had been requesting [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► because i'm too prissy to have my hair [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► squashed but those were also kind of [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► sort of earbuds into me if I'm going to [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► go here but sometimes we'll just go air [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► pods and battery potential battery [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► issues be damned [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► but those were very very popular very [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► very popular response i was almost going [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► to buy our next set which is the kidney [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► though Kim evo-devo I don't know [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► quinoa a bth 60v to France SI è qui [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► know was that commercial who's ready for [TS]

00:14:38 ◼   ► some football but food commercial anyway [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► point being the novella bth 260 and [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► there is another there's an older [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► version i don't recall the model name [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► number whatever that did not support apt [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► x but this pair apparently does and this [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► is what I was about to buy when my plate [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► by old bluetooth headphones came back to [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► life then there are a lot of people [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► suggested various kinds of earbuds but [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► with shoulder neck carniss things those [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► things always look horrible to me like [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► those always look like the worst develop [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► all worlds basically it's like you have [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► this like you have the the discomfort of [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► earbuds and and all the crappy sound [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► that usually goes along with them and [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► but you don't have like the tiny like [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► you know tiny little size or wrap around [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► the phone kind of cable you still have [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► this big block of battery [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► crap you have to deal with and it's just [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► like I don't I don't get why everybody [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► likes those please don't write in yeah [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► and i completely agree with everything [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► you just said they're very very many [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► different flavors of this particular [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► example of putting in the show notes is [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► the LG tone pro HPS 750 and again these [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► will be in the show notes are i [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► completely agree with you at the thought [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► of having this thing resting on my [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► shoulders you also have an earbud seems [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► like the worst of all worlds [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► not for me but but definitely on paper [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► it sounds like it would be good because [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► presumably it has forever long battery [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► life this particular set is also apt x [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► compatible etc etc the final [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► recommendation which i'm actually [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► looking into because they just seem very [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► interesting to me is a bone in bone [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► conduction is that what it's called yes [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► bone conduction headphones and the way [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► these works are you have these things [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► thats it pressing against your cheek [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► bones and they vibrate your cheekbones [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► which vibrates your head in the things [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► inside your head [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► hopefully kind of in a not dangerous way [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► a lot of people wrote in to talk about [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► that and i'm actually looking into that [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► as well so the aftershocks tracks as an [TS]

00:16:36 ◼   ► example that that'll be in the show [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► notes too so if you're in a similar [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► situation you can look at all those or [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► just try to find an ancient power like I [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► have and do whatever magical incantation [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► / sacrifices i did in order to get them [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► to work so I'm curious its penis because [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► of my whole like inability to [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► comfortably wear anything any year I [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► don't know the answer that i'm curious [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► for all these looks like really tiny in [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► ear bluetooth things what do they do for [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► remote control commands things like [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► volume and play pause and skip back seat [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► forward do they have buttons somehow for [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► that like how do they do that well and [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► that's why the plantronics backbeat fit [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► are a popular choice i think because [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► they have those bars the rest on your [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► shoulders of those those orbs that rest [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► on your shoulders that that I presume [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► have excuse me I'm sorry I'm getting [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► myself backwards we try that all over [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► again so that's why the top the [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► plantronics backbeat it is popular [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► because their ear buds but with like [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► panels on the outside of the year but if [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► that makes any sense at all and so the [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► buttons are on there and additionally on [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► those shoulder harness see things [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► LG's and i think a few people have [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► recommended Sony's that were similar [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► design those I think have the buttons on [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► those little like shoulder pad things or [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► whatever they are that rest on your [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► shoulder so i guess that works for those [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► but i can't speak for any like true to [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► form earbuds and I did get a lot of [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► recommendations actually I can't recall [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► which one was the most popular but a lot [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► of recommendations for just straight-up [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► earbuds that have the cord behind you [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► but if i'm going to go that route I'd [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► rather have like the the one of the ones [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► i have today that just kind of rest on [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► my ears i'm not a big earbud fan [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► although that being said the more I hear [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► about the air pods the more I think [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► they're going on my holiday list because [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► it sounds like they're the best possible [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► solution in that they have almost enough [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► battery life if I listen all day long [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► oh jay bird x2 is all said in the chat [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► on believe those are the ones that [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► everyone and their mother had [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► recommended anyway so I think the [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► airports are probably the best bet [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► because if i ever get up from my desk [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► for like any reason I can pop them back [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► in a little Tic Tac holder and that will [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► probably give me enough juice to get [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► through the rest of the day so hopefully [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► Santa or the equivalent I guess Hanukkah [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► Harry if you will hope he'll be good to [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► me this year and maybe i'll come up with [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► a set of those moving on last piece [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► follow up on this I think will be a [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► little bit more shared front of the show [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► great könig had written a post earlier [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► today about why your next iphone won't [TS]

00:19:14 ◼   ► be ceramic and if nothing else it's a [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► great post because it includes a [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► screenshot of one of my favorite movies [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► of all time the hunt for red october but [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► what great goes through in this post is [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► why he thinks and that this is probably [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► not going to be a thing and if you don't [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► know Greg he is uh i think a co-founder [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► one of just a handful of employees of [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► luma labs and they make the loop which [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► is the camera strap i have on my big [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► camera as we speak and that was not [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► compensated by what was a gift but was [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► from families or somebody paid actual [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► money for it it's really great i love [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► that thing and so Greg manufacturers [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► stuff for living that's what he does and [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► his point which he had a very long essay [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► and it's worth reading every bit of it [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► but if i were to [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► quickly distill it down he said apples a [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► hardware company and machined aluminum [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► is their primary platform at peak [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► production apples manufacturing roughly [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► a million iphones a day so for Apple to [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► bring a whole new long cycle time [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► process online the sort of thing that [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► would that ceramic would require they [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► would need warehouses with tens of [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► thousands exchanging thousands of [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► machines already squared away and ready [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► to rock with thousands more machines [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► being built the machines that are [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► building the iphones they would need to [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► be thousands of those will probably need [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► to be those machines would be needing to [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► be built to to add to the collection [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► it's already ready to rock [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► so in his perspective there's no [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► freaking way that's gonna happen anytime [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► soon and it's really worth reading all [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► because I'm Way over simplifying it but [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► you should check it out we'll put it in [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► the show notes one just have also it's [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► like in order to to get the machines and [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► tooling and everything set up to produce [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► ceramic iphone cases at the scale need [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► to to to you know to produce enough [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► iphone instrument to meet demand they [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► could theoretically do it but not only [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► would it be like way way way more [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► machines and space and money and people [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► than what they have now but the gist of [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► it was like if they were even preparing [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► for that you couldn't hide that amount [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► of investment and effort like that would [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► take years to build up if they were [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► going to do it and it would you know you [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► would you would see that you would see [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► people talking about noticing it and [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► expenditures you see sources in the [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► supply chain talking about it and [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► leaking information and apple acquiring [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► companies are staffing up you know in [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► certain ways basically it's like it [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► would be such a massive undertaking and [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► just like stuff money and people that [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► they really couldn't hide it by [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► disguising it as a car development [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► program you're always billion dollars [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► will make a car who would believe that [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► anyway some for the past i think the [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► past now for a long time now i think [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► apple has to have been internally [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► looking for their next material after [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► machined aluminum because [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► machine-to-machine little mage began [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► with the the macbook air the aluminum [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► age began something before that once [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► they settle the machined aluminum they [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► had nice that my situation where so many [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► things they made started the block of [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► aluminum and these computer-controlled [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► milling machine [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► James you know would carve out what they [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► wanted and they do that for so many [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► products and that's good because then [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► you've got sort of a solid thing to [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► invest in things to become good at they [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► buy all these machines the machines get [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► faster so on and so forth the part of [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► the the thing that Greg was talking [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► about in the post is exactly how long [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► does it take to go from raw material to [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► apart and ceramic takes longer than [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► machining aluminum because you gotta do [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► the whole baking process or molding and [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► also its first seven and I am I looking [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► for the next material that's a lot of [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► research and I like oh you had mentioned [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► last show from carbon fibre some kind of [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► surround make a different things with [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► plastics I don't think they've found [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► what their next thing is going to be but [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► surely they are looking for it because [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► they're looking for something that is [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► like a net win over luminous pretty [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► great [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► it has something that somebody's going [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► to remove the way he does easy to [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► machine 22 high tolerances that you know [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► that it's a sort of a known quantity [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► they can mess with the formulation of [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► the aluminum has a great points out and [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► not have to replace the machines right [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► because they can all still not going to [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► change from 6,000 6000 7000 series [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► aluminum they can still use all the same [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► machines but it's got downsides to its [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► not radio transparent it bends scratch [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► ability if you're going to have a high [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► gloss finish they haven't sorted out or [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► whatever so anyway feel like during all [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► this time and where in this aluminum and [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► glass a chapel has to be looking for the [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► next thing is eventually presumably [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► they'll find it and when they do find it [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► there is going to be you know a long [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► ramp up into switching over i don't [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► think you know this thing points out of [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► it what are you saying about the time [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► required to manufactured I i don't think [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► they can use ceramic unless they solve [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► that problem exists time is one of the [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► problems they can't really fix right so [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► if they decided some kind of ceramic [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► combined with some other material like [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► ceramic he says the N ceramic at the [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► outside and or something else instead [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► they decided this was the thing because [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► it has more desirable qualities they [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► have to get it down to the point where [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► they can manufacture it as quickly and [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► easily as aluminum or within that [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► ballpark because they're not going to go [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► backwards by like a 2x4 10x [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► manufacturing time they just can't [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► sustain that I think is right that if [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► they [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► made that decision there's going to be [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► such a long lead time that be a wall [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► know about it but as discussed last week [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► like the next one's gonna be glass [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► glasses i think they already know about [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► their aid with the four in the forest [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► this glass in the current phones that [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► you know whatever [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► that's the rumor it's not a big change [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► they've done it before [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► it's a existing material if they were [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► going to do anything with ceramic and [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► the watch was a trial run [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► don't even think about it until like [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► after you have two rounds of this glass [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► down the the whatever and whatever asks [TS]

00:24:48 ◼   ► are you know actually I'm right now pick [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► up the phone the same and realize this [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► is not an S generation is actually the [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► seven even though it looks the same [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► success anyway we're all confused now [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► but yeah i still think that somewhere [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► out there in our future is apple's next [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► material i remember the liquid metal [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► rumors he mentions that as well they [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► bought that little better company and [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► they had known if they made the sim I [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► think they made the the same extractor [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► to live liquid metal not really a big [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► return on investment for that company [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► but I was another possibility can we can [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► we make can be like injection mold metal [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► and come out with a part that it has all [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► the fine details already on it because [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► it's liquid metal and it flows and it's [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► like plastic but you get me anyway none [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► of those things have one yet [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► I think the ceramic watch tells us that [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► of all the possible future materials [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► maybe ceramic had enough promise to say [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► well even if we've eliminated as a [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► possibility for our phone we can make a [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► cool watch out because this marker point [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► out that's not an unknown material on [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► the watch world and you know they can [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► give it a try but it the requirements [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► for a successor to aluminum on the phone [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► are pretty stringent and it could be [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► that we have to work we have to go [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► through a whole series of generations of [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► this glass phone before we even look at [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► you know carbon fiber or plastic that [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► doesn't look like plastic / l house [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► they're going to do so speaking of [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► phones have you made it to the apple [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► store it will recall i still have not [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► i'm so parenting again so like I just [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► haven't had time to be running around [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► going to stores i still not actually [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► made me up so i think i'm going to [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► eventually because my wife is finally [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► starting to look at like watches and [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► bands and stuff and complaining about [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► the combinations that she would like to [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► exist that don't complain about the [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► sport man colors that seemed not to [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► just anymore and so on anyway that [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► probably means I'm going to have an [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► apple store at some point with her [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► looking at watches and that's that was [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► probably will get me there to mess with [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► the phone [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► fair enough i'm curious to hear what you [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► think after you go and do it so my [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► coworker jamie has a jet-black i have a [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► matte black [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► every time I look at my map black i am [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► convinced that it is i think in my [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► personal estimation my favorite iphone [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► ever i just think it looks amazing and i [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► love it to death and then for some [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► reason or another all i'll grab Jamie's [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► phone and then I wish so badly that it [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► was even a half as tacky as sticky as [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► cheese filling because man that jet [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► black is so nice to hold I I i still [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► prefer the aesthetics of the mat but [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► gosh that jet black is so nice to hold [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► have you considered pine tar MIT the [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► pics right I'll tell you what you like [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► so you know now that another world few [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► weeks and like my jet black one you have [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► any time to look at the back [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► 0i look this morning just like it was [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► like it was upside down on the bed i was [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► doing was getting dressed and i know [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► some like you know how does how does the [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► back look now after a few weeks of views [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► and I look and it's like there's like [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► three fingerprints on it but it's not [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► that bad and like I had and I hadn't [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► just been offering this is like like [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► organic discovery of the back of this [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► phone in the wild and like there was [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► there a few fingerprints on it and it's [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► fine and there's a few small scratches [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► that you can see in certain light and [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► they're fine too [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► it doesn't matter at all but every [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► single time I pick it up and hold it [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► which is constantly during the day I am [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► so glad it feels good as it does yeah [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► yeah I can understand that I don't know [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► it's it's a tough call I think to be [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► honest [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► jet black or or matte black it's kind of [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► a win-win [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► you mean because i think the jet-black [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► absolutely wins on uncomfort I think the [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► matte black wins on aesthetics [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► personally although it's a close call [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► so it's a win win no matter how you [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► slice it yeah i agree with that before [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► we move on from the material that your [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► phone is made of assuming the glass [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► rumors are true and they do the glass [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► thing what do you guys think is the most [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► likely successor material to aluminum [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► and glass kali like after that [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► yeah i got there after whatever this [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► next one is however long like the glass [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► error last assuming the rumors true like [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► it was because i have to think that [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► apple continues to look for the next [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► material and they will find it [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► eventually it's not going to be aluminum [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► and glass forever and ever [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► I don't think we can say for sure i'm [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► gonna times you but I don't think we can [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► say for sure that they necessarily have [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► to replace aluminum I mean there are [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► certain things in the world that just [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► ended up being made of certain materials [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► for a very very long time because that [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► makes sense for physical physical [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► characteristics or for manufacturing [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► ease or four cost or availability or [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► scale or whatever else but there are [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► certain things that always into being [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► made of that material like airplanes are [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► made of aluminum because there's lots of [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► reasons for that and like that's like [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► there's nothing saying that they're [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► gonna be good replacement for airplanes [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► unless there is pleased airplane Eric [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► don't tell me I just let me believe one [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► thing but there is like a very rare [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► plant example is a good one because for [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► a long time out brains were made of [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► metal until people started working [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► carbon fiber into airplanes into actual [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► airplanes that you know like a sold-out [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► it's not like they're all made of carbon [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► fiber now but that became a viable [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► material for important parts of [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► airplanes whereas it you know in the [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► beginning of our parents lives that [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► atmosphere than existing wasn't using [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► airplanes at all and aviation is really [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► slow to adopt new materials but slowly [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► but surely basically over the course of [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► our entire life suddenly carbon fiber is [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► part of the formula of making a plane I [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► think phones or less conservative in [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► airplanes and especially since you know [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► airplanes have the constraint that they [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► have to like transport something [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► otherwise why they even exist whether [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► it's people are cargo right but phones [TS]

00:30:22 ◼   ► that the form factor of a phone i mean [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► in some respects until it is sending [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► images you know into it directly into [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► our brain has to have something that we [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► can look at you know assuming we don't [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► go to classes or something but [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► everything else about it it's kind of up [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► for grabs like aluminum it you know if [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► if the electronics for a phone fit into [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► something the thickness of a credit card [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► aluminum is not the material for you [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► because once you have to think of a [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► credit card [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► you can't make that out of aluminum [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► anymore because it will Bend and stay [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► bet and so it's a non-starter period you [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► cannot do it out of a woman right so [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► if we get to that in our lifetime which [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► i think is reasonable will be old men [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► but you can keep making these things [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► that are in smaller than our in smaller [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► and lighter weight and new screen [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► technology and so on and so forth we can [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► get pretty thin and once they get to a [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► certain thickness you can't use aluminum [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► anymore so I and then you probably don't [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► want to use glass because it's just too [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► fragile so you have to go to a material [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► that's been denounced back and you [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► probably want to also go to something [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► that's lighter so I don't you know he [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► you but it's reasonable to say though [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► you could say in the next 20 years it's [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► a little glass that's it or just glass [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► and whatever a sandwich between it is [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► that what you're saying you can envision [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► anything in the next like 20 years or so [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► that's not aluminum glass or some [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► combination i mean i don't really know [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► enough about materials and the science [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► behind them and then the status of [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► current technologies like carbon fiber [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► is a great example we know that might be [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► it i don't know I I no carbon fiber is [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► right now it's it's not used in mass [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► quantities and a lot of places because [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► of various like newness and cost issues [TS]

00:31:58 ◼   ► and things like that but I don't know [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► about to know whether that's likely to [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► be overcome and in the next few years I [TS]

00:32:04 ◼   ► really don't know [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► carbon fiber I think would have many of [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► the same advantages of ceramic in that [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► way i assume its radio transparent i [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► assume it can be very thin and light and [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► strong based on the little I know about [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► it so it seems like it could be really [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► cool but I don't know if they can make [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► enough of it i mean if you think about [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► like where you might see it first [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► certainly the iphone is a very high [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► profit very high-profile prestigious [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► device but it wouldn't surprise me if [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► you saw carbon fiber first appearance [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► something lower volume that could maybe [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► sell for even more maybe a macbook pro [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► you know maybe you see a macbook pro you [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► know lid casing or bottom casing or [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► maybe even the entire case made of [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► carbon fiber I have no idea but that [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► would be a place where like you could [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► actually really use more of a weight [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► savings and you could charge more and [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► have more of a profit margin to kind of [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► cover the cost of it and you would need [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► to make as many of them as you would [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► make with the iphone so I I think [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► they're going to use something like [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► carbon fiber probably gonna see it first [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► somewhere else not then the phone but I [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► really have no idea [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► now [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► I was going to say carbon fiber as well [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► but I i'm not i am not confident in that [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► idea because I thought that carbon fiber [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► is just a nightmare to work with and [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► doesn't like splinter really badly if [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► you kinda or maybe I guess that's [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► fiberglass which I'm not recommending [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► I'm just saying I just thought it was a [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► nightmare to work with [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► I think carbon fiber does shatter the [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► lights and that one of the problems at [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► home maybe that's it [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► yeah did I mean it's an interesting [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► thought exercise for sure but i think [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► this is 3 blind men leading themselves [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► around in a circle [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► you know I I don't that like Marcus I [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► don't know anything about materials [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► really so i'm not sure what's even [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► reasonable what would you say John I [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► basically agree with all the things that [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► you touched on like everything exact [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► same thing is Margo in terms of like [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► that this was getting up with the credit [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► card type thing aluminum is great right [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► up to the point where you start reaching [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► a certain minimum thickness and then you [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► have the bending problem right because [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► aluminum is not all about springing back [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► and it its we have a good analogy in the [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► car industry where for many many years [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► cars were made of steel and then more [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► exotic cars incorporated aluminum parts [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► but you're weird and harder to [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► manufacture don't remember when we were [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► kids like I already had a little cars [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► and was like oh but those are a [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► nightmare to do bodywork on because [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► everyone knows how to do steel and [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► aluminum is harder to work with all [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► sorts of reasons that like making you [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► know mechanics and body repair people [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► will tell you that aluminum cars are [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► paying the but fast forward to today [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► aluminum is everywhere it is trickling [TS]

00:34:35 ◼   ► down the carline it's not just on exotic [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► supercars anymore [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► what's on exotic supercars these days [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► ago super-hard is essentially entirely [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► made out of carbon fiber like that the [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► Koenigsegg one has carbon rubber wheels [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► for crying out loud like and it's okay [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► let's find for carbon fiber for exotic [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► cars but carbon fiber just like aluminum [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► before I feel like will be trickling [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► down and like seven on cars very often [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► especially a very expensive fancy cars [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► it'll be aluminum and steel but on the [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► lightweight model they will replace [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► certain parts with carbon fiber very [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► often the roof the hood things that are [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► thin not really load-bearing but very [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► large like marketing with the back of [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► macro and I mean cars you're not [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► supposed to touch anything so they [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► should be bending but macbooks if they [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► make them really thin like think of the [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► current mac [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► that's starting to push the limits of [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► been doing this if you want to go much [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► thinner and you probably will be able to [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► considering like that the iphone is [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► probably faster than the current macbook [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► and the iphone is a really small that a [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► 10 is really small [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► if you want to go much thinner and you [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► want to make a more lightweight version [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► of that that's more resilient making the [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► top case of a macbook pro active carbon [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► fiber starts to make sense and because [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► carbon fiber i think is inevitably going [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► to trickle down the automotive ladder in [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► our lifetime [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► it's just the way the industry goes [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► there will be an ever-increasing [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► expertise in dealing with and [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► manufacturing carbon fiber so that's [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► that's my number one pick for the [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► successor because things will get [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► thinner it has the advantage of radio [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► transparency is really light is really [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► strong the difficulty is that you can't [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► like machine fine details into it it's [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► more of a pain to deal with like hoping [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► that the rest of the manufacturing [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► industries starting with aviation [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► supercars and coming down to regular [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► cars or ever will will start to work out [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► the details of a carbon fiber [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► manufacturing process that makes it [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► viable in a way that it is not now that [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► makes it viable for manufacturing phones [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► all the charms carbon fiber is not ready [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► transparent so I don't know that's good [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► that maybe another thing that they can [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► tackle they could always just have [TS]

00:36:35 ◼   ► antennae lines smoothly etched into the [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► carbon fiber like they do with the [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► aluminum today anyway there we go [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► ceramic antenna lines that a [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► carbon-fiber plate [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► ya know ya know sometimes erratic is [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► ceramic the reason we're even talking [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► about that is because apple introduced [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► this really shiny phone the scratches [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► really easily i'm like oh well it would [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► be nice if it could be smooth but also [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► not scratchy and then that's how we get [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► the whole carbon fiber thing o carbon [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► fiber shatters and chips and so on and [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► so forth all these all these different [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► properties i feel like within the realm [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► of metals and ceramics and even plastic [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► that's my second pic by the way carbon [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► fiber is my exciting pick my boring pic [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► is as you get really really thin you [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► know what for something the size of a [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► phone not necessarily the size of a [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► laptop or something the size of a phone [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► maybe not the big phone plastic that has [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► a lot has a lot of desirable qualities [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► plastic we know all that plastic it [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► scratches more easily than the hard [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► metals it will shatter eventually but it [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► bends in springs back and can take a [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► beating [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► and you still got the problem of the [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► screen floating out there we haven't [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► even talked about mostly just talked [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► about the back of the thing i don't see [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► any anything other than glass for the [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► front of the thing until the whole thing [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► is Benny piece of plastic and then you [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► can have it be glass at all because the [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► whole thing is like a row you can roll [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► it up or whatever and you can't make [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► that out of class and then we just have [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► to accept that it's plastic and they're [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► so cheap that if you get scratched up [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► you just go to the apple store and they [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► give you a new one for 50 bucks or [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► something but will be dead then so don't [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► worry about it responds this week by [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► betterment investing made better go to [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► better mint.com / ATP to learn more [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► betterment has changed the investing [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► industry by making investing easier and [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► a lower cost than traditional financial [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► services better manage your investments [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► at the same strategy the financial [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► advisors use with clients who have [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► millions of dollars and now to bring [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► that to you you might be hearing [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► betterment in the press such as the wall [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► street journal Bloomberg and techcrunch [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► have covered them recently betterment is [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► the largest independent automated [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► investing service out there managing [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► more than 5.5 billion dollars for over a [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► hundred and eighty thousand customers [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► now the fan service industries embrace [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► technology and innovation through the [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► creation of these automated investing [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► platforms mean that you keep more of [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► your money with fees that are a fraction [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► of what you pay for traditional [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► financial services any excess cash [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► investment generates is automatically [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► reinvested so every dollar you invest is [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► put to work in your portfolio is [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► automatically rebalanced as needed [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► investing involves risk right now you [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► can get to six months of no fees to [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► learn more visit betterment calm / ATP [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► that's a better mint.com / ATP [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► betterment investing made better [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► there's been a brouhaha there's been a [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► kerfuffle there's been i'm out of [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► adjectives so there's been a thing and [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► apple and an independent developer are [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► kind-of sort-of duking it out and that's [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► not usually happy for anyone involved [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► and particularly for those watching from [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► the sidelines because oftentimes this [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► has pretty big implications on on your [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► own business so i'm trying to think that [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► there's so many angles to this story and [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► i'm i'm trying to figure out the best [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► way to summarize and we'll put links in [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► the show notes to MJ sighs summary post [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► there's two of them and they're really [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► good [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► Michael sighs but the super super quick [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► version and then we'll add details in a [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► moment is that this gentleman bog dan [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► and I don't have a blessing funny but [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► anyway uh pesco he had released many [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► apps may be but certainly in disputed [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► Lee was the author of an app called dash [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► which I actually haven't used which is [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► probably criminal because from [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► everything mr. now its from everything [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► i've ever heard it is phenomenal and I [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► don't say that sarcastically but to use [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► the built-in exco documentation like an [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► animal [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► no safari usually because I don't trust [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► the built-in stuff search abilities but [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► anyway I identical sucks but yeah so I i [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► will be the first to admit I'm missing [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► out on this and in again I'm not trying [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► to be sarcastic genuinely from [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► everything i've ever heard from anyone [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► who has ever touched dash it is [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► phenomenal [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► well all of a sudden his developer [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► account got shut down [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► maybe that's a little bit up for debate [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► but all of a sudden get shut down he [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► kind of tries to talk to apple doesn't [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► get a lot of information out of them [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► eventually starts posting about it's now [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► at people other independent developers [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► like Marco for example starting to say [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► hey this doesn't feel right what's going [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► on here [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► eventually he gets in contact with Apple [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► things seem to be making forward [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► progress then Apple goes to the press [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► and says well he's getting booted from [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► the app store because he's done some [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► really nice various stuff [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► meanwhile bogdan is thinking well I [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► thought we were still in the midst of a [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► dialogue what's going on here so then he [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► escalates [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► writes his own post again links will be [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► in the show notes I've writes his own [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► post that includes among other things a [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► roughly 10 minute phone call recording [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► of a 10-minute phone call between him [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► and an apple representative which i'm [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► not sure that was the most morally sound [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► choice but i can understand why I did it [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► and then since all this happened the [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► armchair archaeologists have been [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► digging into what's going on and whether [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► or not things are awry because it seems [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► to be that the disconnect is there were [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► two accounts that were linked in some [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► way shape or form the the method of that [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► Lincoln how end and how tenuous that [TS]

00:42:15 ◼   ► link was is up for debate but it seems [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► clear that there's absolutely a link [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► between two different developer accounts [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► and one of the accounts it seems like [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► everyone involved isn't debating that it [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► was involved in some kind of shady [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► practices trying to buy good reviews for [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► their own apps trying to put bad reviews [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► for competitors apps and just generally [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► being shady now bogdan's perspective is [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► hey I open that account for a relative [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► of mine i did it using my credit card [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► because in other countries having a [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► credit card isn't necessarily a given [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► like it's sort of is in America and [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► after that I walked away [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► they're the ones that are doing all this [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► nefarious terrible things i'm not i'm [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► getting i'm just collateral damage here [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► and that's not fair [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► so there was some back and forth like I [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► said between Apple and he Apple [TS]

00:43:07 ◼   ► apparently wanted him to write a blog [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► post saying basically hey apple just got [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► confused but we've straightened it out [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► it's all good now and then he allegedly [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► would have been allowed to get back in [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► the app store this is before he [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► escalated with the phone call and I [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► believe before Apple escalated by going [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► to the press [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► so there's a lot of other avenues here [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► the armchair archaeologists seem to have [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► found a lot of different ways that point [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► to all the shady apps actually having [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► been him as well and not some other [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► relative and we can go into that if need [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► be but this is one of those that you [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► nations where everyone seems wrong [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► everyone seems right and nobody's clear [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► what what the real story is which makes [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► it very interesting and many people [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► joked that maybe cereal season 3 will be [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► of help that but but but it's hard to [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► make heads or tails of it and and i'm [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► not sure if i had to choose sides who I [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► side with and I think the reality of the [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► situation is i kinda side with both [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► inside with neither all at once which i [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► know is kind of a cop-out but that's [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► really how I feel so let's start by [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► asking before we get into our opinions [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► about this is that a relatively ok [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► summary did I miss any really important [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► points [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► I think you got it i mean i think your [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► characterization of what Apple wanted [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► him to do in that blog post is is not [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► quite there but close enough [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► alright John any other thoughts going to [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► say that uh some of the it's it's not [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► clear [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► uh we have the rough timeline of events [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► from the outside but because Apple is so [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► tight-lipped about everything I i still [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► feel like we don't really have their [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► side of the story they're never going to [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► give it to us right so we it's kind of [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► like we have the black hole that is [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► apple and then we have a leak of their [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► private communications with this [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► recording and then we have the [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► discussion for the developer but apples [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► never apples not going to for instance [TS]

00:45:06 ◼   ► like it would you characterize your like [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► oh then Apple went to the press with [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► this thing that said this thing like we [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► have no idea if that statement was [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► written and distributed through the [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► bureaucracy before that call even took [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► place and apples not going to clarify [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► they're not going to go by the way you [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► may think you've heard this but really [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► actually this is that when I can't tell [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► if it's like not our business what goes [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► on inside their company and also i feel [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► like the the communication I the public [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► communications all the different sites [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► if you look at it [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► my recollection is that basically it [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► doesn't tell you the details to let you [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► know all the nuances that the developers [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► blog post went into but it also doesn't [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► say anything that is false from the [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► perspective of apple with their [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► terminology which will be sure we'll get [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► into later like from Apple's perspective [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► this is the real system this is these [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► are the set of rules they matched on [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► this particular set of behavior they [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► took this action [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► and that's what they're distributing an [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► apple is basically putting that out in [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► response to the original careful about [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► 10 developers getting squished again and [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► so I would say that like it's difficult [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► to know is a difficult to know Apple [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► side of the story like we get the [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► developer side is a developer not only [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► is free to say whatever he wants to the [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► public but seems very willing to say and [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► do whatever feels like the public which [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► is fine but Apple is totally unwilling [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► to do that so I still feel like we are [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► all at a disadvantage on the outside in [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► terms of knowing what the real deal is [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► yeah i mean i-i think trying to figure [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► out all the details of what happened is [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► not productive for any of us possibly [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► even them because you know we weren't [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► these are private communications for the [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► most part we have seen very little of [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► them we don't really know this developer [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► well you know we use app but you know [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► none of us know him to know like for [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► sure you know how complete he's probably [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► being who knows you know it and we also [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► don't know if Apple's being complete and [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► truthful in their statements we have no [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► way to evaluate these these really you [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► know so all we can really do is is try [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► to judge this or first week we can just [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► ignore it which is one valid option I i [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► think are the the communities initial [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► reaction of hey this looks like a [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► mistake because this app you know before [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► we knew about the second account with [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► all the other crazy apps like this app [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► is really good and has lots of [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► legitimate five star reviews what need [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► would this person have to buy fake [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► reviews or to get suspended like it [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► seemed ridiculous and so we were all [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► yelling last week on Twitter [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► hey this doesn't look right can somebody [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► apple-like look into this again or [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► explain this like that was the main just [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► everyone's demand last week when it blew [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:47:41 ◼   ► well the the reason he was talking about [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► it all is because he made an initial [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► blog post read you might be wondering [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► what happened to the dash [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► here's the deal I'm not sure what's [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► going on but they said my account is [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► pulled and it's and I can appeal the [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► process like so that's how that's why we [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► knew about it at all because he went to [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► the public and said to explain why his [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► apps are certainly not available because [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► people use apples popular and that's it [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► I think the main thing I think we can [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► take away from this entire thing is how [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► the apple developer community [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► reacts to it like because reaction [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► doesn't happen in a vacuum so the [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► context of all the past history so when [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► we all collectively saw this story from [TS]

00:48:20 ◼   ► a developer and there was any other [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► reason we saw because we all do you know [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► where in the traveling developer circles [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► online and developer blogs and you know [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► anyway when we saw that because of the [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► past history of App Store rule [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► enforcement and policies that you know [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► that don't seem right to developers but [TS]

00:48:40 ◼   ► you know the history of conflict the [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► history of arbitrary decisions that [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► don't make any sense or that our [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► community of developers in ways that [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► shouldn't be or you know honest mistakes [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► or whatever that context is why we have [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► this reaction because it's not this this [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► event is not a thing this event just [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► highlights hey how does the apple [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► developer community feel about Apple and [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► the app store at this moment in time are [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► they inherently suspicious [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► do they give Apple the benefit of the [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► doubt that they give developers but i [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► like it so clearly showed that the [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► current context despite positive changes [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► is that we will all readily believe that [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► the giant faceless bureaucracy that is [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► the apple app store i can and does do [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► things that are you know it [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► best-case mistakes or worst case like [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► just wrongheaded decisions right so [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► that's that I feel like was at it you [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► know part of a tumor marker right is [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► that like this is a good app and we kind [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► of like you know do virtual transfer [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► like application good [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► therefore developer good which is not [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► valid transfer but you're like it just [TS]

00:49:43 ◼   ► didn't seem like if you've got a quality [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► of the people like that that you're [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► known for what reason do you have like [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► she'd interviews or anything before we [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► do that but like it just seemed like all [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► right and and but I really think the [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► most important thing is that the tablet [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► takeaway from this is that people's [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► developers still don't trust that we are [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► going to do the right thing and that [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► when they see anything that even looks [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► like one of those past situations where [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► we've been in the wrong or done [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► something that was not productive [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► they will immediately believe it so that [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► you know they'll know they have made [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► progress when a similar event happens [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► and the reaction from the developer [TS]

00:50:19 ◼   ► community is not immediate suspicion [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► that Apple has screwed a small developer [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► again [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► yeah and and i think at you know an [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► apples-to-apples credit though this [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► ability to totally terminate somebody's [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► developer account is probably used [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► everyday for lots of different [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► fraudulent accounts that are trying [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► their you know conducting fraud or spam [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► or scams or something that they probably [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► turn it turn a developer account every [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► day and I can't think I mean maybe I'm [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► wrong please let me know if i'm wrong i [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► can't remember a single previous [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► instance in the eight years of the app [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► store where it seemed like someone's [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► developer account was terminated wrongly [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► has that ever happened that we that we [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► learned about well I mean the equivalent [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► is like we're rejecting your update even [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► though you've gotta crash here for some [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► unknown reason the other didn't [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► terminate your developer account but but [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► effectively effectively it's the same [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► thing and noe i mean this is more severe [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► and this is what this is much more [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► severe it is but like see the reason the [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► reason I think you don't see people [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► complain about termination is because I [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► I think you're right the termination [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► happens all the time but it happens to [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► known bad actors and it's part of the [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► cost of doing business in on bad actress [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► bad actors get their countermand all [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► time there's open a new one like that's [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► their business is open up a new account [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► do something against the rules if as [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► long as you can when your account gets [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► closed open up another one like that's [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► that's their entire mo like that their [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► life's the life cycle of the fraudster [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► coming up star is right and so of course [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► they're not going to complain about it [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► why would think that's just like how the [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► system works from their perspective so I [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► think this is just a you know that all [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► the the legitimate developers have the [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► review problems or whatever they'll get [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► shut down this looks like a cross over [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► those two worlds the rolled over there [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► were no one ever complains but everyone [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► knows you're going to shut down like a [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► week or two but sometimes it's slow bad [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► you can make a lot of money in the [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► meantime and then this world over here [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► where it's like historically sometimes [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► apple rejected legitimate application [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► and be frustrating or whatever but [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► eventually you'll get through it except [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► for the people who are like you know [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► after this type are no longer allowed [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► period they just have to stop [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► development that's also very similar in [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► terms like oh we don't want to make [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► launch wraps for a couple years or but I [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► don't know that's a good example that [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► that where Apple categorically decides [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► that this type of application is allowed [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► anymore even though we have previously [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► allowed it but this is like crossing [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► over of and because and it's not that [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► much of a crossover because there is [TS]

00:52:33 ◼   ► like you said everyone agrees there's [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► some kind of fraudulent activity on [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► account [TS]

00:52:37 ◼   ► where the argument is whether that [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► fraudulent activity should meet this [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► other account gets closed right so this [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► is the meeting of those worlds [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► the only question is is that meeting you [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► know is it legitimate to do collective [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► punishment because the accounts use the [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► same test devices in the same credit [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► card number which from a perspective is [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► the only way they have to tell they [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► can't see what's inside the computer [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► right so that you can get that all they [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► have this data and their data says same [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► test devices same credit card number [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► same legal entity and you know from a [TS]

00:53:07 ◼   ► legal perspective like not from a [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► practical perspective from a legal [TS]

00:53:11 ◼   ► perspective like that's how the Apple ID [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► system works that's how developer thing [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► works there they want information about [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► you to connect to it is essentially to [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► connect to entity that they can sue or [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► that is legally represented writing so [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► if you if you use all the same [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► information they used to establish what [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► the entity is for multiple accounts it's [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► all the same entity like that's the [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► whole point of you doing this like Marco [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► has multiple attention multiple things [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► for your various yeah like right and but [TS]

00:53:40 ◼   ► that's like it if they were all come you [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► know separate or combined like that's [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► how things work in the business world we [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► don't care what physical person is [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► sitting for another thing they just care [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► what the legal entity is and where the [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► liability lives right now the more human [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► side of it is what if you do live in a [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► country where it's not easy credit cards [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► and you do a favor for somebody and you [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► you're not a lawyer and not thinking [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► about the fact that now you essentially [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► are legally vouching for the activities [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► of this other account right i think [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► apple would be entirely in the right [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► then probably totally in there legally [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► somewhere that says hey if you use all [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► the same legal and contact information [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► from multiple accounts you are legally [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► responsible like you know that's you [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► essentially absorb the liability for the [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► other person is if you started a company [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► and then you know your friend came in [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► and wrote all the code but then you [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► published it as the legal entity you're [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► legally responsible your friends like [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► all I didn't write all the code he did [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► like doesn't matter that's not how the [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► law works right for the most part of my [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► wire that and so in this situation Apple [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► probably could have just said these are [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► the rules [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► this is the data is irrefutable you [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► don't argue it [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► you know we all agree on the facts here [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► and so therefore your account is closed [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► but it's not what Apple did what Apple [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► did instead is tried to communicate with [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► this developer to work things out [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► because there and that is the next [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► question [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► alright so the app works with developers [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► I work things out [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► does do all of us here in the peanut [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► gallery and apple developer community do [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► we immediately suspect that the only [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► reason they were working out is because [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► this person made a blog post that this [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► happened beforehand so here's well [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► here's what happened and this is I i [TS]

00:55:19 ◼   ► think if i can look at this whole [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► situation if I can point to 22 things [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► that i would say we're like bad moves i [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► think one it was apple bad move and one [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► was the developers bad move the apples [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► bad move was when they first started [TS]

00:55:33 ◼   ► detecting all of this fraud on the other [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► account they did consider the fraud [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► account and the dash account to be [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► logically link because they both were [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► made by the same credit card and they [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► both they both use some of the same test [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► devices so they considered that enough [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► of a correlation to consider them [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► logically linked and and I think that [TS]

00:55:51 ◼   ► that alone right there considering [TS]