352: A Watched Watch Never Boils
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[MUSIC PLAYING]
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Hello, and welcome to Connected, episode 352.
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My name is Steven Hackett, and I'm
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joined by Mr. Federico Vatici.
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Hello, Steven Hackett.
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Welcome back.
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It's good to be back.
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We're also joined by Myke Hurley.
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Myke, how are you?
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Nobody's happier that you're back than me.
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So you don't have to edit?
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I appreciate your work every week.
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Thank you. I enjoyed the show. It's fun to listen to it. I don't get to do that very often.
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You could just listen back every week if you wanted to.
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Well, I do during the edit, but...
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There you go. You get to do it every time. You're the only one of us that does listen back.
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We have some follow-up about email applications.
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So it launched... It launched rockily, I think is probably the best way to put it.
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There were tons of bugs, but I'm not surprised.
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Honestly, this seems like a really complicated type of app
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to just launch.
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Many people, including my two co-hosts here,
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decided not to bother using the application
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after they found out there was no archive feature.
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I actually didn't use it.
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I started using the app for the first time today.
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Because I was busy that day, and you'd both downloaded it
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and just said, there's no archive in this application.
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I'm not gonna do this.
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Like there was no ability to archive an email,
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nor was there an archive to view.
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- Yep, I've tried it since then.
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So I have a couple, I mean I tried it today.
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So I have a couple thoughts, but please continue.
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- But I tried it all for the first time this morning
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because there was an update that came out
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that fixed a bunch of bugs, which is cool.
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And the developer added an archive feature,
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which I think is also cool.
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I'm gonna hand it to, what's the developer's name?
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- Philip something.
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- We'll say Philip, we'll just go with Philip.
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-Is it like Cordell or something? -Yes.
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I got to hand it to him, right, that like, obviously, he had an opinion.
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Like, this is a very opinionated application, right?
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And his opinion was you don't need an archive like our friends over at Hay.
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Not friends, that was the point of that.
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Because I complained about this back when we were first talking about Hay.
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I didn't like that there was no archive.
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It was just once you saw an email, it became seen.
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And then that was just lived in that little area forever.
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but he took on the feedback and added an archive immediately, basically, to the application.
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I will talk you through some of my experiences having used it just a little bit.
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I like the approach of breaking email out into sections in the application. It is like a
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tab bar segmented app. On the iPhone there are too many sections though. There are more sections
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that live underneath the little dots than there are on the tab bar. However, there is also this
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"Here's what's new" view, which shows you a summary of everything that's happened
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since you last opened the app, basically, in all of those sections. It's called the "latest".
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But in general, this idea of making sections in the app is, I don't know, I kind of like it.
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you know it's like a supercharging of what Google's been doing for a while right with like
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promotions and all that kind of stuff where they they basically put your email into buckets for you
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messages I found are formatted quite strangely so like I had an email from Apple I think it was
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like the Apple store because I had to buy new tips for my AirPods because one of them just like
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ripped off this morning which is an interesting thing that happened to me like you know like
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the little rubber tip it just like came off the plastic part just like came off I don't know
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and so I ordered some of those and the email was like zoomed in and I couldn't zoom out I could
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just pan around the email which was weird so like the formatting the way it's like formatting email
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and I know this is difficult because I've seen this with applications in the past right like
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airmail and spark. They're much better at it now, but initially there's a bunch of stuff
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you have to try and do to get the email to stay within the confines of the screen that
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it's looking at. The conversations view, I know what this is meant to be, which is this
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is meant to be all of the email that I exchange with people, so I see kind of like the conversations.
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So if me and Stephen are emailing back and forth on something, this is where you could
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find all of those, whether they're new or old. But I have a couple of issues with it.
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One, it doesn't give me any kind of indication as to how many emails are in the thread, unless
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I click into it. And it also does a bad job of threading. I feel like maybe I've taken
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for granted apps like Spark that do a really nice job of formatting, and Apple Mail does
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this too, right? They format an email thread like it's all separate emails without you
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needing to look through all of the indent nonsense.
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This app doesn't do that.
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But my biggest issue with the conversation view
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is most of the stuff that's in there is really old.
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Like, it isn't pulling in all of my email
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that I've sent or the conversations that I'm having.
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And it's also showing every single one of them
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as a conversation with myself.
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So the name of every thread is just Myke Hurley,
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which that doesn't feel right.
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I think what it should be showing
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is the person I've emailed,
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but instead it's just showing my name
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hundreds and hundreds, if not thousands of times,
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which I don't know,
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that doesn't seem like that's working properly.
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It has a newsletter section, right?
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So, and this is one of the things that the application,
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it's like an area where you can go in
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and just read all your newsletters
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and they format them nicely. I find it peculiar though that you have to tell the app that
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a newsletter is a newsletter. I just kind of assumed that it was going to work that
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out on its own. It's also kind of weird to me that there's a discovery section of newsletters
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in the application that you can then go and subscribe to. And I don't really... That's
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just like a... I don't know, that just feels peculiar to me.
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Wait, like you can find newsletters you aren't subscribed to and go sign up for them?
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I wonder if that's like a business thing?
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I mean this app is expensive but like do you think that's...
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I have no idea.
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I mean when I click out one of the links, like Chatecarries in there, it doesn't like
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format an affiliate link or anything in the email, in the link.
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So maybe it's just...
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It says at the bottom, "These links are being provided as a convenience and for informational
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purposes only.
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They do not constitute an endorsement or an approval."
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Oh okay, there you go.
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But it's just, I mean, there is an endorsement and approval because they've been specifically
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I don't know, it's not like every email newsletter in the world, the developer picked them, but
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legal stuff or whatever.
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I guess, you know, ultimately I get to tell the app what the newsletters are, but I also
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assumed that there would be some smarts applied to it.
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Because, I mean, I don't, I haven't tried this yet because I haven't had the opportunity
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to make something a newsletter but I have no idea if that information is going to sync
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from device to device because like none of the accounts do so like you I have to sign
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in to every account manually on every device that I want to use it on which I understand
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why that is because then there's no like I know this is like a thing about other apps
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where people were like oh they're saving you login credentials and it's just like a whole
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big thing so like fine but I have no idea if that information will sync I would like
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to believe that it would though.
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One thing I found peculiar, there's a bunch of categories right?
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So you've got like purchases, events, that kind of stuff.
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None of my old email is saved in these buckets so it seems like a lot of this stuff will
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apply from today rather than stuff that's back in time.
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Which is difficult because then I can't get an idea of what this is going to look like
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until it happens. Yeah, I had, I mean there's the bouncer which is like the
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screener in Hay, it had things that were in my inbox like in my Gmail inbox and
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it moved them there before they would show up. So like some stuff gets pre or
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gets sorted into things immediately and some stuff doesn't. I found that to be a
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little confusing. And don't mess with things that are already in my inbox. Yes,
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It requires app specific passwords for Gmail and I don't know why.
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So I think what has happened here is Google has changed their authentication for mail
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Mailplane is a Mac app a lot of people like, including Jason, and they have recently announced
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that they're actually shutting down partially because of what Google has done with like
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the login flow and that sort of thing. So maybe it's that. I don't know for sure. I'm
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not sure if they're even related, but I do know Google has made changes in that area.
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Okay. Because that was just weird to me. Every other email app I've ever used just gives
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you the sign in with your Google account thing.
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And unlike Fantastical, where you have to sign into all your accounts everywhere, or
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at least Fantastical used to be that way, what Bigmail does is once you create that
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app specific password, it saves that to iCloud Keychain.
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So I set up on my Mac, then I launched the iOS app, I told it to restore purchases, because
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I won't talk about the flow going into it because I think it's confusing, and then it
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"Hey, we notice that you have this one-time password saved for this account. Do you want
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to enable that account?" So at least you don't have to do it on all of your devices. Once
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you do it once, it's like in the big mail universe.
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Okay, well that's cool then. That's cool then. I was just, I'd never come across that before.
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Like I have it for iCloud, right? Apple have done this for ages with iCloud, but I'd never
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seen that with Gmail. There are no swipe actions on email. So like I had a bunch of stuff in
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my inbox like five or six that were just like Google alert things because I'd signed in,
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right? So I'd like six emails or whatever because Google just loves to alert you because
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I signed in with two different, no I signed in with one Gmail account but it just sent
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a bunch of email and I had to like deal with them all individually by either opening and
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archiving them or just long pressing and archiving them. I do really like the layout and the
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design in general. I think that in that respect it has lived up to what I think a lot of people
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were looking for which is imagine if Apple put effort into the mail app it would maybe look
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something like this right it looks like a platform native app right it looks like all of the typical
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conventions of design that an iOS app should with some additional with some extras right like it has
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these little previews of an email in the notifications which I like that like a
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visual preview of what the email looks like inside I like that kind of stuff
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like I feel like I've been very critical but there is a lot of stuff that needs
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to be worked on with this app I think but I do have faith in the developer to
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add features because so far he seems to have been pretty responsive with that
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So, it has not been a flawless launch by any stretch of the imagination at this point,
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but I am intrigued to see if or how it is going to continue from now on.
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I'm a little bit disappointed because I was really hoping, like from last week's conversation,
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was going to be the new app for me. But I've put some accounts into it. I'm not going to
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be like moving anything to it. I'm just going to kind of run them in parallel for a while
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and see how it goes. But it's rough around the edges.
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Something that I struggled to understand when I tested the app, and that was before the
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the 1.1 update that added the archive feature was to understand the flow of bigmail. And
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I'm not sure I get it still. Like, does the app have a concept of "this is new mail, this
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is old mail you've already dealt with"? Yes.
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Because it's... OK. It does. So, I mean, again, I don't know what you saw, right? Because
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I never looked at the app that way, but all of the new mail is shown to you in the section
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called the latest.
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And then everything else is either in the specific buckets like the conversations bucket
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or whatever, and then you can go into the other areas and then they also have something
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called everything, which is where everything lives.
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Yeah, that was the impression that I got, that there were too many ways to look at the same stuff.
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Yes, there is a regular email client hidden inside this application,
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which is under the "everything" area.
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And that's what I found kind of confusing, because then I was also expecting, "Okay,
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then I guess I should be able to see my email folders in here." But I don't think you can
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see those folders. If you have a "sane later" or "sane news mailbox." And obviously,
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I think this kind of application wants you to stop using that kind of additional service, right?
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Because it's organizing email for you, so using SaneBox is kind of redundant for this kind of app.
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It's trying to be that.
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It's trying to be that, but locally on device and all that.
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But I was confused because I opened the conversations view,
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and that was basically like a replica of my sent folder, right?
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Those are conversations that I'm participating in, which means I've sent a message.
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Like usually when I want to see something that I've replied to, I just go to my sent
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email section. And those are my conversations, right? And I struggle to understand, like,
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how is it different, you know, conversations and sent? What's the difference here? And
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then I didn't understand, like, is Bigmail moving messages out of my inbox or not? Like,
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the sections that I see, newsletters, purchases, conversations, the latest. If I open mail
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or Gmail, which I'm keeping on the side,
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am I still going to see duplicate messages in the inbox?
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Does it leave stuff in the inbox?
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Or is the organization that it does within Bigmail
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just a custom thing?
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- I think it's a custom thing.
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- So if you open Gmail, you see everything in the inbox
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still, right?
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- Well, unless I archive it, I mean, again,
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this is what I don't know what it was like before, right?
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So I'm still archiving the email when I'm done with it.
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So then it's archived, like that will reflect
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in other applications.
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But like the application doesn't create
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like a folder structure,
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like something like Sparrow used to, right?
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It hasn't like gone ahead and created
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a bunch of big mail related folders.
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There is a little slight addendum to that,
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which Steven's gonna mention in a minute, I think.
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But it hasn't created like a bunch of folders
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that it's now putting all my email into.
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- It hasn't done that.
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- All right.
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- Which I think is related to this thing
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that Steven found today before we recorded.
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- Yeah, so I played with it and I like what it's trying
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to do, but I just don't want my email
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in a bunch of different buckets.
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But one thing I noticed going back to Apple Mail
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is that all of a sudden I had a big mail folder set up
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as like an IMAP folder in my account.
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And you clicked in there and it has messages
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that have attachments on them
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that seem to be settings files.
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So one of the things with big mail is that
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it is doing the sorting and stuff all locally, right?
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That it's not going through some sort of cloud server
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and whatever, like that's fine, do what you wanna do,
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but this app does it all locally.
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And I think the way they're doing it, at least partially--
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- I found the help article.
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- Is with this little file.
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Why do I have loads of emails called app data in a Bigmail folder?
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To sync settings for reply layer at the bouncer and scene categorizations, Bigmail uses a
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special folder called Bigmail to write data that can be read from all your devices.
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Bigmail manages this folder automatically.
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It will periodically add, remove, and combine these emails, so it's best not to remove anything
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in this folder, otherwise you may lose some of your settings.
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That's a pretty smart way of doing it, I think.
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Because none of that information is now leaving your email accounts, right?
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it's able to keep in sync that way. It feels a little janky, but it's kind of
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ingenious maybe? Yeah, I don't know. I mean it's hidden in big mail. I only saw it
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when I went back to Apple Mail. Right. So I think this is very promising. I just
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think that this launch has been rougher than expected and I think people
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are a little surprised at the high price. Also the the onboarding is is really... I
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►
I don't think it's good.
00:18:06
◼
►
Like you open the app for the first time and it's like,
00:18:08
◼
►
do you want monthly or yearly?
00:18:10
◼
►
Both come with a trial.
00:18:12
◼
►
- Yeah, a lot of apps do that these days
00:18:14
◼
►
and I don't like it.
00:18:15
◼
►
- Yeah, especially with something like this,
00:18:16
◼
►
like let me poke around first
00:18:19
◼
►
and then as I approach those 14 days,
00:18:22
◼
►
put a banner up in the app or something,
00:18:24
◼
►
you know, let me know.
00:18:26
◼
►
- This is the thing with hay, remember?
00:18:29
◼
►
- I'm trying to think about it.
00:18:30
◼
►
- And then Apple said,
00:18:31
◼
►
you need to give people the ability
00:18:33
◼
►
to create a demo account so they can go in and look at the app.
00:18:37
◼
►
Well, this doesn't require an account.
00:18:40
◼
►
This is just--
00:18:41
◼
►
But I think this app could benefit from me
00:18:44
◼
►
being able to go in and see, even with fake data,
00:18:49
◼
►
what it's going to do before I give them $70 a year
00:18:53
◼
►
or whatever it is.
00:18:56
◼
►
So I signed up for the two-week trial.
00:18:58
◼
►
I'm going to see how it goes over the next couple of weeks
00:19:01
◼
►
if they continue to put out updates,
00:19:04
◼
►
who knows where it might end up going in the future.
00:19:06
◼
►
But I don't know.
00:19:08
◼
►
I'm, um, I'm, decided, I like decided
00:19:12
◼
►
to keep an open mind on it.
00:19:14
◼
►
- That's a good approach.
00:19:16
◼
►
- Purely because like, I like what the app
00:19:19
◼
►
is wanting to do, and I am encouraged by
00:19:24
◼
►
the changes in the app so far.
00:19:30
◼
►
So I want to, you know, I want to, I'm going to keep an open mind of it and I'm
00:19:35
◼
►
going to keep poking around, but this isn't the only mail app you've tried.
00:19:40
◼
►
No, I downloaded an app called, I assume this is called Mime Stream.
00:19:44
◼
►
Where did this come from?
00:19:46
◼
►
I've downloaded a big mail on my iPhone, but I'm also using Gmail on my iPhone.
00:19:52
◼
►
Remember I have all these email accounts and I don't want them in the same place.
00:19:56
◼
►
So my Cortex brand email, I really want in its own application, even if I don't do anything else.
00:20:03
◼
►
I've always done this. I've just wanted that email separate because it's like so different to the
00:20:08
◼
►
other types of email that I get. It's like whiplash. So I wanted to keep that email on its own.
00:20:13
◼
►
First I had it in Outlook, then I moved it to Hey. Now it's back to Gmail again, and I've been using
00:20:19
◼
►
the Gmail app on my iPhone or my iPad. But there isn't a Gmail app for the Mac, right?
00:20:27
◼
►
And I don't want to be like, it's too tricky for me to be logged in all the time because
00:20:31
◼
►
then like I have so many Google accounts. So I was thinking I wanted to get an app for
00:20:37
◼
►
the Mac for Gmail. People love MailPlane, but that's going away. And I remembered an
00:20:42
◼
►
application that I heard Stephen talk about on Mac Power Users called Mime
00:20:48
◼
►
Stream? Mime Stream? I don't understand the name. Isn't Mime some sort of email?
00:20:56
◼
►
Mime is an email thing, right? Yeah, email protocol or something? I don't care, it's a
00:21:00
◼
►
bad name, but nevertheless, really nice app. It's like, again, an Apple Mail
00:21:08
◼
►
looking thing if Apple Mail was modern right because it integrates all of the
00:21:15
◼
►
Gmail features and can you know like sorting things automatically for you
00:21:20
◼
►
highlights when there's a attachment this is a very nice application so I've
00:21:25
◼
►
been checking this out today I just started using it today but I think it's
00:21:29
◼
►
really nice it's like it's a beta. Did you see who builds it? No. It's this guy
00:21:35
◼
►
Neil Havari who spent seven and a half years at Apple working on mail. Makes
00:21:43
◼
►
perfect sense because not only does it is it work and feel good I'm sure this
00:21:47
◼
►
person was frustrated maybe and decided to go make their own app. Do Mon! Yeah it's
00:21:51
◼
►
really good it's really really good I really would recommend because it's in
00:21:56
◼
►
beta right now I really would recommend a different name because Mime stream it
00:22:00
◼
►
it sounds like a streaming video thing, right?
00:22:04
◼
►
Like it doesn't- - With no sound, just get it.
00:22:07
◼
►
- Yeah, the name just doesn't,
00:22:10
◼
►
the name does not connect for me.
00:22:12
◼
►
- Yeah. - Right, at all.
00:22:13
◼
►
- Neil, can you please make an iOS version of this?
00:22:16
◼
►
- Yes. - Yes, nice, right?
00:22:18
◼
►
- Thank you, Neil.
00:22:19
◼
►
This looks really nice and man, it really does show
00:22:22
◼
►
just how much Apple is just leaving Apple Mail
00:22:27
◼
►
in the past at this point, right?
00:22:30
◼
►
And I wrote this today, like, it's incredible to realize this after the year that we just
00:22:38
◼
►
lived through with remote work and just, you know, not being at the office and using email
00:22:43
◼
►
Like, how is it possible that Mail still basically looks the same as 10 years ago with no new
00:22:51
◼
►
And when they did try to bring something new to Apple Mail with the weird toolbar buttons,
00:22:57
◼
►
the entire user base revolted and now the toolbar is back to ROML again.
00:23:04
◼
►
They are working on an iOS and iPadOS app.
00:23:06
◼
►
But just imagine if Apple Mail got the Apple Notes treatment, right?
00:23:14
◼
►
It's fun to dream.
00:23:16
◼
►
Myke, did you notice in its settings that you can have the thing you want where, say
00:23:22
◼
►
Say you have two unread messages and you archive the first one, it doesn't automatically select
00:23:27
◼
►
and mark as read the next one?
00:23:29
◼
►
I have not come across this yet because I haven't had enough email in that account,
00:23:34
◼
►
but it makes me so happy when an application adds this.
00:23:39
◼
►
I have been lucky enough to force this feature into a couple of email apps of them in my
00:23:43
◼
►
lifetime because I don't understand this idea of like, if I deal with one email, what I
00:23:49
◼
►
definitely want is the next one immediately.
00:23:52
◼
►
I must have it open.
00:23:53
◼
►
So that's cool. I would have,
00:23:54
◼
►
I would have gone searching for that.
00:23:56
◼
►
So I'm very pleased that you've told me that it exists.
00:23:58
◼
►
It also has a related setting.
00:24:01
◼
►
Mark messages as read immediately after a delay or manually.
00:24:06
◼
►
Oh my God, that's so good.
00:24:08
◼
►
This person understands email.
00:24:10
◼
►
Come on, Neil.
00:24:12
◼
►
We need two things, Neil.
00:24:14
◼
►
We need an iOS version and we need just a slight change to it.
00:24:18
◼
►
Why do you call it my mail?
00:24:21
◼
►
Why stream? I think streams my issue.
00:24:26
◼
►
I don't understand the stream part.
00:24:31
◼
►
Well, it's because it's a thing, right?
00:24:33
◼
►
Some email protocol.
00:24:35
◼
►
It's a mail nerd.
00:24:35
◼
►
I don't like it, but that's I can understand it.
00:24:38
◼
►
I don't get the stream part.
00:24:39
◼
►
I'm sure that there's something I'm missing, right, about this.
00:24:42
◼
►
But it doesn't email.
00:24:44
◼
►
It's just the reason I would suggest it.
00:24:47
◼
►
It's not it's not memorable.
00:24:50
◼
►
I knew this app. I knew what it looked like. I knew its features. I could not think of what it was called.
00:24:55
◼
►
And I had to ask Steven, and luckily Steven's memory is better than mine.
00:24:59
◼
►
You can also set the keyboard shortcuts to Gmail or Apple Mail. It's got all sorts of cool stuff in it.
00:25:06
◼
►
Oh, this is like... All these options, they remind me of... What's it called? MailMate on the Mac?
00:25:13
◼
►
Yeah, but MailMate's like a markdown text editor with IMAP bolted to it. It's weird.
00:25:18
◼
►
That sounds fun.
00:25:19
◼
►
That sounds great.
00:25:20
◼
►
Big recommend for MimeStream.
00:25:22
◼
►
It's in beta right now, but...
00:25:24
◼
►
As soon as he adds printing, this is gonna be my mail client on the Mac.
00:25:29
◼
►
It doesn't have printing?
00:25:31
◼
►
Oh, like export to PDF?
00:25:34
◼
►
Yeah, it doesn't have either.
00:25:35
◼
►
Like you're not actually printing your email?
00:25:38
◼
►
No app does this better than Spark, by the way.
00:25:42
◼
►
Spark has a dedicated PDF button that you can press.
00:25:47
◼
►
This episode of connected is made possible by memberful.
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Memberful is the easiest way to sell memberships to your audience used by the
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biggest creators on the web generate sustainable,
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recurring income while diversifying your revenue stream.
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You've heard us talk about the relay FM membership program.
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memberful is the platform that we built our membership on top of and make it
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super easy to generate new revenue streams for the business.
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but much more importantly it makes it easy to deliver bonus content to Relay FM
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members so it integrates with a bunch of really cool stuff so we have our
00:26:28
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Discord server you can set up discourse as well you can do hook it up to
00:26:35
◼
►
different email clients deliver secret things over RSS have downloads it's
00:26:41
◼
►
great all these tools make it really easy to build a really compelling
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◼
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offering so if you have a project that you're looking to monetize you should
00:26:50
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definitely look at Memberful. Maybe you're already producing content that's
00:26:54
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reliant on advertising or other means of income. Well Memberful makes it easy to
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diversify that. They include custom branding, gift subscriptions, Apple Pay
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support, free trials, private podcasts, and a ton more. While leaving you as the
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creator in full control and ownership of everything that relates to your audience,
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no credit card required. Go to memberful, M-E-M-B-E-R-F-U-L, memberful.com/connected
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to check it out. It could be the start of something really exciting for your project.
00:27:33
◼
►
Our thanks to memberful for the support of the show and Relay FM.
00:27:36
◼
►
I have a little more follow up. Eric sent us a link to an episode of the MXU podcast,
00:27:44
◼
►
or M by U podcast, it's M little x u, wherein they talk to Webster Talston, who is an owner
00:27:51
◼
►
of a company called Axis Audio, who have supplied some Atmos mixes to Apple for spatial audio.
00:27:59
◼
►
The main takeaway here is that Apple is not using some of the data supplied by audio engineers
00:28:07
◼
►
concerning binaural audio, which is something that is included in the at most information
00:28:17
◼
►
that it's turned over.
00:28:18
◼
►
Federico, can you give an explanation for binaural audio?
00:28:21
◼
►
I can try if you can.
00:28:23
◼
►
No, I cannot.
00:28:24
◼
►
I have no idea.
00:28:26
◼
►
Binaural audio.
00:28:28
◼
►
You can create binaural audio with a binaural microphone and the main selling point here
00:28:33
◼
►
is binaural audio allows for, when using headphones, audio to sound like it's coming from around
00:28:43
◼
►
It can put audio in different areas and it makes it sound like you've got that open sound
00:28:47
◼
►
stage right?
00:28:48
◼
►
Because it sounds like things are coming from, like it fakes the surround sound kind of thing.
00:28:52
◼
►
Open sound stage.
00:28:53
◼
►
So, but instead of using this information
00:28:55
◼
►
that is coming from the audio engineers,
00:28:57
◼
►
Apple have created their own algorithm
00:28:59
◼
►
that synthesizes it what they want to be a virtual studio
00:29:03
◼
►
around your head.
00:29:04
◼
►
So the idea I think is that it's bigger,
00:29:07
◼
►
like not everything's not happening like directly
00:29:09
◼
►
in your ears, it could feel like it's happening
00:29:11
◼
►
also far away.
00:29:14
◼
►
So something that Webster said on the show is that
00:29:19
◼
►
the algorithm has also continued to be tweaked
00:29:22
◼
►
since the launch of Spatial Audio Apple Music and he believes getting better.
00:29:31
◼
►
So I just wanted to share that thought it was interesting.
00:29:34
◼
►
So that may explain why some songs with Spatial Audio at launch, they sounded really strange
00:29:41
◼
►
and why some readers told me over the past few weeks like I believe they fixed the song and they
00:29:48
◼
►
updated some songs and I thought that was also strange like how can you update
00:29:54
◼
►
songs but I guess if software is involved and algorithms are involved
00:29:59
◼
►
this is just kind of the world that we're living in now songs can be updated
00:30:03
◼
►
and they sound different which is funny to think about. I guess that they're
00:30:08
◼
►
probably not even updating the songs. Right. They're just updating the way that
00:30:14
◼
►
the audio is interpreted by the headphones. Right, but from an experience standpoint you're listening
00:30:21
◼
►
to one song and it sounds a certain way and then a few days pass or a few weeks pass and you listen
00:30:25
◼
►
again it sounds different. Buddy Holly 2021.06. Wonderwall 2.5.
00:30:32
◼
►
So yeah, cool follow-up. Stephen Brokkin of a product.
00:30:41
◼
►
Are we surprised? I like it. Stephen broke an Apple watch. Stephen broke his watch.
00:30:45
◼
►
Care to explain?
00:30:49
◼
►
I was... Explain yourself. ...camping with my family and
00:30:52
◼
►
where we were had waterfalls and and stuff and I was gonna
00:30:56
◼
►
there's a section where you can like jump down this waterfall into the water below and I went to go do that and
00:31:07
◼
►
Apple watch on a rock under the water.
00:31:10
◼
►
It survived like I mean the screen was shattered, but it still worked and I could still kind of make out the time
00:31:16
◼
►
I thought it would be dead instantly
00:31:18
◼
►
I mean it was I can't believe water didn't get in it, but like every 15 minutes. It would be like the
00:31:25
◼
►
loud noise warning
00:31:27
◼
►
Like even if I was just like I was laying down a hammock that afternoon
00:31:31
◼
►
It was like it's 90 decibels in here you're gonna lose your hearing and I couldn't turn it off
00:31:37
◼
►
because where the where the setting was for that the screen didn't respond to touch so
00:31:41
◼
►
That was a bummer, but I got home, and I had my series 5 here, and I thought well
00:31:48
◼
►
I'll just I'll just wear my series 5 until there's a new watch so I
00:31:54
◼
►
Then went through the process of unpairing the series 6 to create a backup
00:31:59
◼
►
That's only that's how you back up an Apple watch you have to unpair it and the backup is created so I did that
00:32:06
◼
►
Set up the series 5 you know plugged it. Hey, you know had it on the charger, so it has some juice again and
00:32:13
◼
►
Not apply the backup it would only see backups that were really old. It's like. Oh, it's probably running watch OS
00:32:20
◼
►
6 right we're on 7 now 8 is coming, so it's probably on an older version of watch OS so I
00:32:27
◼
►
Unpaired that one
00:32:30
◼
►
Set it up again as like a new watch
00:32:34
◼
►
Updated watch OS on it which took forever like boys the series 6 it sir seems faster
00:32:40
◼
►
I don't know if it actually is maybe it's a a watch watch never boils, but I
00:32:45
◼
►
was eventually I
00:32:48
◼
►
Was eventually able to
00:32:52
◼
►
Repair it and then select the backup from the series 6 and that backup went on fine no problems
00:32:59
◼
►
But it really just reminded me like how tedious this process is also you can't seem to get rid of old watch OS backups
00:33:05
◼
►
I have watch OS backups from like watch OS 2 and 3 in there, but oh well. I guess I'm just carrying those around forever
00:33:11
◼
►
That's weird. This is the second Apple watch you've broken
00:33:15
◼
►
Yes, I've never broken an Apple watch. No, you don't wear one. I'm wearing it today actually
00:33:21
◼
►
Hmm. So take that Steven. I don't know what to say to you anymore. Be more careful. Really? Yeah
00:33:29
◼
►
So how did you do it? Well we jumped down into the water like I didn't hit a rock
00:33:35
◼
►
but... Okay stop right there why are you jumping into the water? Yeah because like that's what
00:33:40
◼
►
you do with this place like you... You kind of did hit the rock though I don't
00:33:44
◼
►
understand how you could say you didn't hit the rock. So like my I sound like I slammed
00:33:48
◼
►
into a rock with my body but... Well the watch the watch the watch did saved you if
00:33:53
◼
►
you weren't wearing the watch you would have busted your wrist. The watch was
00:33:56
◼
►
like your shield. Yep. It's like in movies when like someone gets shot and then they
00:34:02
◼
►
take a Bible out of their pocket and the Bible caught the bullet. That's basically what happened
00:34:06
◼
►
to you but with an Apple Watch, your wrist and a rock. Have you written a letter to Tim
00:34:12
◼
►
Cook about this yet? Maybe I can be in the commercial with Kyle. Yeah, the Apple Watch
00:34:20
◼
►
saved me from a graze in my wrist. I was sliding down a waterfall and the Apple Watch saved
00:34:26
◼
►
my life I can see the headlines on like what's it called Tennessee Tennessee
00:34:32
◼
►
news whatever like a tennisopolis 40 year old saved by Apple watch 40 yeah
00:34:42
◼
►
round 35 yeah you could round up from that to full it's not even my half
00:34:47
◼
►
birthday yet I'm still feel like I'm rounding down you can round up to 30 you
00:34:52
◼
►
You went too far. You round down to 35 round up to 40. So yeah another Apple Watch.
00:34:57
◼
►
Are you gonna replace it? Probably not right? I don't even know if this one has
00:35:03
◼
►
AppleCare on it I need to look. I mean like even if it did like if it didn't
00:35:08
◼
►
you wouldn't get a new Series 6. No that's why I went back to my Series 5.
00:35:13
◼
►
I was like it's I mean it's basically July so. What materials are your Series 6?
00:35:19
◼
►
Which one did you get? The gray aluminum. Okay, so you've gone from aluminum back to titanium.
00:35:27
◼
►
Yes. Or I guess titanium as you would call it.
00:35:30
◼
►
T-t-titanian-titanianopolis. No, titanium, right? Al- aluminum. Titanium.
00:35:37
◼
►
Titan, right? Sure. That must be how it works.
00:35:44
◼
►
I like the titanium a lot more than I remembered, but it's definitely heavier and you know the
00:35:50
◼
►
series 6 has the screen brightness way better when your wrist is down and it's funny now
00:35:56
◼
►
to like catch it brightening up but it's fine.
00:35:59
◼
►
I've just remembered I don't own a series 6.
00:36:01
◼
►
I have a series 5.
00:36:02
◼
►
Do I own a series 6?
00:36:03
◼
►
Of course you do.
00:36:04
◼
►
I think I do, right?
00:36:06
◼
►
I'm just looking behind my watch.
00:36:12
◼
►
How was it different?
00:36:13
◼
►
Oh yeah, the blood oxygen stuff.
00:36:15
◼
►
That and the screen is brighter when in sort of wrist down mode.
00:36:21
◼
►
Oh yeah, it's brighter in... the always on display is brighter.
00:36:27
◼
►
Yeah, I guess I never noticed.
00:36:29
◼
►
So there's less of a like transition.
00:36:31
◼
►
Yeah, I bet, I bet.
00:36:33
◼
►
So anyways, no one tell David Sparks because he thinks that I break a lot of Apple devices
00:36:38
◼
►
and I think that's ridiculous.
00:36:39
◼
►
What are you talking about?
00:36:41
◼
►
We tell you you break a lot of Apple devices.
00:36:44
◼
►
Why is David--
00:36:45
◼
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- I'm just saying he's under that impression, falsely.
00:36:48
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►
- The impression that everybody else is under?
00:36:52
◼
►
- You are unlike anyone I've ever met.
00:36:55
◼
►
I don't know anybody that does the things that you do.
00:36:57
◼
►
I don't understand it.
00:36:59
◼
►
- I mean, in hindsight, jumping off a waterfall
00:37:03
◼
►
with an Apple Watch on was probably a bad idea.
00:37:05
◼
►
- And like, the thing is,
00:37:07
◼
►
you don't even strike me as a clumsy person.
00:37:11
◼
►
I don't think.
00:37:12
◼
►
How would you explain this?
00:37:14
◼
►
I don't think that you are as well
00:37:16
◼
►
like particularly daring,
00:37:18
◼
►
like maybe more daring than me.
00:37:20
◼
►
But maybe it is though.
00:37:22
◼
►
But maybe it is.
00:37:23
◼
►
Maybe like the level that
00:37:25
◼
►
I am at is the amount
00:37:27
◼
►
of daring just before
00:37:29
◼
►
you break things.
00:37:30
◼
►
Like just the
00:37:33
◼
►
same for you Federico.
00:37:34
◼
►
Just like just one click
00:37:36
◼
►
up is where Steven is and that is
00:37:38
◼
►
where you break everything.
00:37:40
◼
►
I don't jump off anything, really.
00:37:42
◼
►
- That's not gonna break anything.
00:37:44
◼
►
- Bad things will happen if I jump off platforms
00:37:47
◼
►
or whatnot, yeah.
00:37:48
◼
►
- You could say I'm a real fireball, 'cause I'm daring.
00:37:52
◼
►
- Ooh, I've chosen not to say anything.
00:37:56
◼
►
- What do y'all think about iPads getting bigger?
00:37:59
◼
►
- Please, yes, thank you, I want one.
00:38:02
◼
►
- Cool, moving on.
00:38:03
◼
►
Now this is from Mark Gurman.
00:38:06
◼
►
He's in the newsletter business,
00:38:08
◼
►
but the newsletter is owned by his employer.
00:38:11
◼
►
- And it's free.
00:38:12
◼
►
- But it's free.
00:38:14
◼
►
I have it set up to go to Feedbin
00:38:16
◼
►
with all my other newsletters.
00:38:17
◼
►
And Garmon suggested Apple's working on larger iPads,
00:38:21
◼
►
possibly 14 or 16 inches in size.
00:38:24
◼
►
This seems to be multiple years away.
00:38:26
◼
►
This isn't like coming this fall,
00:38:29
◼
►
but I think it makes a lot of sense.
00:38:32
◼
►
Federico, what do you think?
00:38:34
◼
►
- Yeah, this is fun.
00:38:35
◼
►
I actually remember talking about this idea
00:38:37
◼
►
in a briefing at WWDC many, many years ago,
00:38:42
◼
►
like throwing around the idea of like,
00:38:43
◼
►
yeah, I would actually love a bigger iPad Pro.
00:38:46
◼
►
And I still believe that--
00:38:48
◼
►
- So you're saying you're responsible,
00:38:50
◼
►
is that what you're saying?
00:38:51
◼
►
You're responsible for this?
00:38:52
◼
►
- Look, I'm responsible for many things, all right?
00:38:54
◼
►
- Okay, all right.
00:38:56
◼
►
- Maybe this is one of them, I don't know.
00:38:58
◼
►
But no, seriously, I mean, if you're Apple,
00:39:00
◼
►
you must be thinking about this sort of stuff, right?
00:39:04
◼
►
Especially given the sort of direction
00:39:06
◼
►
that they're going with iPadOS and multitasking.
00:39:09
◼
►
I think it's one obvious idea would be,
00:39:13
◼
►
well, we've built this new foundation in iPadOS 15.
00:39:17
◼
►
Maybe we're even considering freeform multi-windowing now,
00:39:21
◼
►
if you look at Quick Note,
00:39:22
◼
►
we're gonna talk about that in a few minutes.
00:39:24
◼
►
And I guess the obvious next step would be,
00:39:28
◼
►
well, what if we took things a step further
00:39:32
◼
►
and we made an even bigger iPad Pro
00:39:34
◼
►
that allowed you to do more of that kind of multitasking.
00:39:38
◼
►
So you could imagine multiple split views instead of just two
00:39:43
◼
►
apps open at the same time, maybe even multiple floating
00:39:46
◼
►
windows that you can resize like a picture-in-picture type
00:39:51
◼
►
And I think they should do this.
00:39:54
◼
►
And it's fun to think about--
00:39:57
◼
►
you look at Windows 11 and all the things
00:40:00
◼
►
that Microsoft has been doing.
00:40:01
◼
►
Microsoft has always been ahead of Apple
00:40:03
◼
►
when it comes to multitasking and snapping and that sort of stuff.
00:40:07
◼
►
And you look at Windows 11 and what they do with the snapping menu and all the multiple
00:40:10
◼
►
layouts that you can choose from.
00:40:12
◼
►
And that is exactly the kind of feature that I would love to have on iPadOS and that I
00:40:17
◼
►
could also see, however, being somewhat tricky to get right on an 11-inch iPad or on a 12.9-inch
00:40:25
◼
►
So bigger iPad, more freedom for snapping and split view layouts, and maybe even proper freeform windowing
00:40:35
◼
►
that is not exactly like on Mac OS, but maybe inspired by the Mac, and more similar to what we have on iPad
00:40:45
◼
►
with Quick Note in iPadOS 15 and Picture-in-Picture.
00:40:49
◼
►
Yes, you can resize the window, but you have limited options.
00:40:53
◼
►
You can throw it around, but it automatically docks to certain corners of the display.
00:40:58
◼
►
So that kind of thing, I believe it will lend itself well to a bigger iPad Pro.
00:41:04
◼
►
Now obviously the question is, well, how big do you want to go with an iPad that still
00:41:09
◼
►
needs to remain an iPad, right?
00:41:11
◼
►
We're not talking about a 20-inch iPad, right?
00:41:16
◼
►
needs to remain a tablet that if you want you can detach from from the magic
00:41:21
◼
►
keyboard and holding your hands. Does it though? Can't they just make a desktop
00:41:26
◼
►
that runs iPadOS? Well sure. Is it called an iPad at that point? MacPad. Is it an
00:41:32
◼
►
iPad? Like is it still a tablet? No, I think that one's taken. What about... I don't know. I don't have any other ideas.
00:41:43
◼
►
Is that the end? We found the end of that joke.
00:41:45
◼
►
iPad studio.
00:41:47
◼
►
I don't know. I feel like...
00:41:49
◼
►
So Myke and Jason actually talked about this in the latest episode of Upgrades.
00:41:52
◼
►
Like, you could see how if they do this, they could potentially show it off in specific contexts, right?
00:41:59
◼
►
Instead of... Like, if they announce a 15-inch or 16-inch iPad Pro,
00:42:03
◼
►
instead of showing people holding this giant iPad with one hand,
00:42:07
◼
►
you would show people using it on their lap and using the pencil.
00:42:10
◼
►
I can barely hold the 12.9 with one hand.
00:42:12
◼
►
Exactly. Exactly. But I feel like it would be also fine to say this is an iPad that you
00:42:21
◼
►
can still use as an iPad, but it's more optimized for that kind of workflow, for that kind of
00:42:28
◼
►
use case. Just like an iPad mini, it's not optimized for the kind of multitasking you
00:42:34
◼
►
can do on an iPad Pro. And that is okay, because different sizes, different workflows, and
00:42:39
◼
►
totally fine. So I think it's time to go bigger. We have small iPads, we have the
00:42:45
◼
►
smallest iPad with the iPad mini and we could probably have a bigger iPad as
00:42:51
◼
►
well. I would be into it because I used the 12.9 like it's a laptop anyway like
00:43:00
◼
►
I could go to 14 I could go to 16 like that would I would be perfectly happy
00:43:06
◼
►
happy with that. I would actually quite welcome it. Why not? I mean, you know, you say like
00:43:12
◼
►
how much bigger is 14 than 12.9? I mean, it's bigger. Any more is more, right? Like you
00:43:18
◼
►
just keep making these things bigger like they have in the past. Like we started out
00:43:22
◼
►
with a 9.7 inch on the small version and now we're up to 11 and that's been a significant
00:43:30
◼
►
difference over time. So I would very much welcome it going up to
00:43:34
◼
►
say 15 inches or whatever. I think that would be great. Do you think they
00:43:39
◼
►
would make it fit? I mean it would get physically bigger still, right? Like
00:43:42
◼
►
they're probably gonna keep those bezels on the iPad. I don't imagine them
00:43:47
◼
►
getting rid of them. No, I think you've got to have some place to tuck
00:43:51
◼
►
face at it again too. And they want the bezels to be
00:43:56
◼
►
be the same all the way around like I don't think they're gonna notch it so
00:43:59
◼
►
well I mean eventually they're gonna be able to put the face ID under the
00:44:04
◼
►
display so if that's a few years away yeah but I think even then you're gonna
00:44:08
◼
►
have some sort of bezel I mean it could get smaller the thing that I really
00:44:13
◼
►
wonder about in this is the opportunity for accessories like not the sad
00:44:20
◼
►
docking thing that Federico has. A stand. Yeah. A proper stand. What does this look like if you
00:44:27
◼
►
want to use it more like a desktop? Like that's the opportunity for Apple to do more stuff,
00:44:33
◼
►
it's an opportunity for third parties to do more stuff, because the iPad has never really been that
00:44:37
◼
►
good as a productivity device without something holding it up or having a keyboard on it. So I
00:44:43
◼
►
think it would be really exciting to see like what that would be like, even if it wouldn't be for me,
00:44:48
◼
►
I think it would be exciting to see what new things could happen in that space.
00:44:54
◼
►
Apple have released 22 new Apple Watch bands, not for the Olympics, don't
00:45:03
◼
►
get it twisted, they're just for the international love of sport of course.
00:45:09
◼
►
Right, people love sports internationally. And now's the time to internationally
00:45:17
◼
►
released some international bans. 14? These are obviously for the Olympics but
00:45:23
◼
►
the expectation I guess is there is some kind of legal reason that without paying
00:45:28
◼
►
the Olympic Committee a bunch of money they can't say it because they do they
00:45:32
◼
►
really like it is they do some somersaults. There you go I'm keeping it in theme
00:45:36
◼
►
here to get around not saying Olympics in this press release and Apple have
00:45:42
◼
►
done this in previous times for the Olympics. I think in the past they have
00:45:47
◼
►
actually said it's for the Olympics but they have this time you got to imagine
00:45:51
◼
►
someone at Apple has been sitting on this for a year at this point, right? Like these were made a long time
00:45:58
◼
►
ago and they're gonna have again app clips in the boxes so you can get your
00:46:04
◼
►
Apple watch face that corresponds of it but if you on an iPhone go to the Apple
00:46:09
◼
►
website there is somewhere you can get the watch faces from for the different
00:46:15
◼
►
countries. Some of them look really good. I like them. Yeah, I do really want to
00:46:23
◼
►
know what that looks like. Oh, we have this warehouse full of Apple Watch bands
00:46:26
◼
►
and then the Olympics get put on hold for a year. It's like, uh, like now what?
00:46:32
◼
►
You know, someone's job to like babysit those, but... One of my favorite things
00:46:38
◼
►
about when they do this is the fact that they do tie it to countries because it
00:46:45
◼
►
It is almost redundant how many red, white, and blue ones there are.
00:46:48
◼
►
In various... right?
00:46:52
◼
►
If they just made them the colors rather than saying that they're for a different...
00:46:56
◼
►
like, so you got France, Great Britain, Italy, the USA, South Korea, and Russia.
00:47:06
◼
►
They're all just red, white, and blue.
00:47:09
◼
►
That's... well, Great Britain, I should say, rather than the UK.
00:47:13
◼
►
the Mexican one is basically the Italian one as well.
00:47:16
◼
►
Like if you're Italian and you want to buy a watch band
00:47:21
◼
►
for your country, you can easily get either the Italian one
00:47:24
◼
►
or the Mexican one.
00:47:25
◼
►
And depending on your taste,
00:47:27
◼
►
I think the Mexican one is actually better
00:47:29
◼
►
because it's got the green. - It is kind of funny.
00:47:31
◼
►
I know the Italian tie to blue in sports.
00:47:36
◼
►
- But the Italian watch band
00:47:38
◼
►
is predominantly a blue watch band.
00:47:40
◼
►
- Which is a bold choice.
00:47:42
◼
►
If you show it off to someone without telling them like what's the Italian one, I think
00:47:48
◼
►
they would say the Mexican one is the Italian one.
00:47:51
◼
►
Yeah, definitely.
00:47:53
◼
►
Because it's the tricolor, right?
00:47:54
◼
►
Like it's, well, whatever you would call it.
00:47:55
◼
►
Do you call it the tricolor or is that just in France?
00:47:56
◼
►
Yes, that's actually correct.
00:47:57
◼
►
No, it's correct.
00:47:59
◼
►
It's very funny to me.
00:48:00
◼
►
See, you know Europe, Myke, unlike somebody else.
00:48:05
◼
►
I like the Netherlands one.
00:48:06
◼
►
The Netherlands one's nice.
00:48:09
◼
►
The New Zealand one is nice too.
00:48:11
◼
►
The Greek one is nice.
00:48:12
◼
►
just the blue and white vocal stripe and the Canadian one too I like. I think the
00:48:18
◼
►
New Zealand face looks the best of all the faces. It's nice and simple right?
00:48:22
◼
►
Yeah. Yeah it's fun. Go sports. I mean it's not the Winter Olympics. Hooray for
00:48:29
◼
►
international sports happening at any point. Every four years international
00:48:35
◼
►
sports happen. Unless there's a pandemic. Yes. I do love by the way that it
00:48:42
◼
►
still called the 2020 Olympics.
00:48:44
◼
►
What had to happen where they decided
00:48:48
◼
►
they would keep it the same?
00:48:49
◼
►
- I was talking about this with Sylvia a few days ago.
00:48:52
◼
►
I think I read somewhere that one of the big issues
00:48:54
◼
►
was that all the marketing material had been produced
00:48:58
◼
►
and it would have been such a waste
00:49:02
◼
►
of like to throw all of that away,
00:49:03
◼
►
like from flyers and just, you know,
00:49:08
◼
►
printed materials to all kinds of toys.
00:49:11
◼
►
There's so much wasted anyway though because like we're in a completely different context.
00:49:15
◼
►
Yeah I know.
00:49:16
◼
►
Right like if you produced a like a thing and it showed like full stadiums like well
00:49:22
◼
►
that's gonna be weird.
00:49:25
◼
►
It's like when Apple shipped was it the iPhone 10s and it mentioned AirPower in the literature?
00:49:31
◼
►
It's the same as like all of these are gonna have like a really weird date on them.
00:49:36
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00:51:38
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- So the public beta is for iOS and iPadOS
00:51:42
◼
►
were released today, just slightly before we recorded.
00:51:46
◼
►
Federico published a big article
00:51:48
◼
►
where and I think Federico actually wrote
00:51:51
◼
►
his entire iOS review.
00:51:54
◼
►
I will quote from Federico's article.
00:51:56
◼
►
"If you're installing the iOS 15 public beta today
00:51:58
◼
►
and wanna show it off to your friends,
00:52:00
◼
►
know this live text in the camera and custom focus modes make for the best
00:52:04
◼
►
demos followed by the new weather app and rethought multitasking controls on
00:52:08
◼
►
iPad share play is neat but can feel already dated now that more countries
00:52:11
◼
►
are rolling out vaccinations the new Safari needs some more work mail is
00:52:15
◼
►
surprisingly unchanged despite the rise of remote work in the past year that's
00:52:19
◼
►
how I describe iOS and iPadOS 15 in two sentences as of the first public beta
00:52:24
◼
►
release today so wrap it up everyone yeah you got the summer off baby
00:52:28
◼
►
Congrats! I'm done! Thank you, thank you. Well, that is actually like the, also the,
00:52:36
◼
►
I think this article you're taking a look at a preview of what the review is going to
00:52:42
◼
►
be like, right? Some of the themes that I shared.
00:52:46
◼
►
Could we say that this is the public beta of Federico's iOS review?
00:52:51
◼
►
Yes! That is actually true! That is absolutely correct. Like, and we're going to talk about
00:52:57
◼
►
this later because you're curious as to why I wanted to publish this story. But yeah,
00:53:02
◼
►
this is a preview of what I've been working on and sort of how I'm approaching these updates.
00:53:09
◼
►
And I think actually looking through some of the other stories that I saw on other websites
00:53:13
◼
►
today, I feel like this is more or less the consensus right now. Like, these updates are
00:53:20
◼
►
a grab bag of features, and there's not a single big thing that is the obvious one to
00:53:26
◼
►
to say, "Yeah, iOS 15 has this thing."
00:53:29
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Like you could have said, "13, dark mode, iOS 14, widgets."
00:53:34
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And you usually have that kind of big feature
00:53:37
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that you explain to someone who doesn't follow tech news.
00:53:41
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In this case, you have a bunch of smaller things
00:53:44
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►
and some of them are pretty good.
00:53:46
◼
►
Some of them feel already old.
00:53:49
◼
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And some of them, they are gonna need a lot more work,
00:53:52
◼
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like Safari.
00:53:53
◼
►
Did we know at the time that it was widgets last year?
00:53:58
◼
►
- Well, we had a feeling that it was gonna be the thing
00:54:03
◼
►
for developers to focus on,
00:54:05
◼
►
and it was like gonna be the feature to talk about.
00:54:07
◼
►
And at least personally, that's why I spent,
00:54:11
◼
►
like the home screen chapter is the one
00:54:13
◼
►
that I spent the most time on in my review last year.
00:54:16
◼
►
We did not expect the sort of home screen aesthetic
00:54:21
◼
►
viral thing. Thanks David. Yeah but also when it happened like we were surprised
00:54:29
◼
►
but we understood why like yeah I guess you know this is fun to play around with. I think the surprise was it was just weird for
00:54:36
◼
►
something that the nerds are so excited about for everyone to also be excited
00:54:40
◼
►
about it. I wonder what that'll do to the adoption rate you know 14 had a really
00:54:45
◼
►
good adoption curve as opposed to 13 which had a really rough start and I
00:54:49
◼
►
think a pretty bad reputation pretty early on but now with 15 assuming it goes
00:54:54
◼
►
well and it's not a buggy stew of sadness when it comes out like will
00:55:02
◼
►
people be willing to update for a new feature I'm not sure there's anything in
00:55:06
◼
►
here like widgets I'm not sure the last time there was something like widgets
00:55:10
◼
►
it's usually emoji right which comes later it's like the thing that people
00:55:14
◼
►
update for... I don't think that... I can't recall an operating system feature that
00:55:20
◼
►
went viral other than widgets. I don't think that that has been a normal
00:55:25
◼
►
thing. I will actually ask you now, because we kind of... I want to drill into
00:55:30
◼
►
a little bit about some of the stuff that you were talking about Federico,
00:55:32
◼
►
but why have you like written this story? Isn't it taking time off from writing
00:55:38
◼
►
the review, which ultimately is the most important thing for you to be doing
00:55:41
◼
►
right now? Right, well first of all I put this together in a couple of days so
00:55:47
◼
►
though I was really happy about that I was able to make it happen on a
00:55:51
◼
►
relatively short notice but also like you know like every I mean yeah a couple
00:55:58
◼
►
of days is a couple of days but like if that's half a week it's not that many
00:56:02
◼
►
weeks yeah I know September middle of September you know it comes up fast I'm
00:56:06
◼
►
saying this is someone as if they you don't know how fast it is September
00:56:11
◼
►
But you know the thing is though that a lot of the a lot of the sections that I've shared here
00:56:17
◼
►
And I've done this before
00:56:19
◼
►
Nobody ever notices, and if they do they understand like a lot of this stuff
00:56:24
◼
►
I am going to reuse and I'm going to recycle in the review, so it's like
00:56:28
◼
►
Yeah, technically I haven't written the review this past couple of days
00:56:33
◼
►
But also I also kind of did because most of these sections
00:56:37
◼
►
I will incorporate in the main story and I will update them and I will revise them, I will dig deeper into some aspects
00:56:44
◼
►
but the sort of the core structure of things like focus, for example, and iPad multitasking, like all of that
00:56:51
◼
►
I can reuse and I can expand upon, but the work is already done, right? So,
00:56:56
◼
►
I actually have a note in Obsidian called "Sections I can reuse" and that contains
00:57:03
◼
►
links to things that I'm working on this summer, like in Maxories Weekly for example, or in this case this article,
00:57:10
◼
►
that when the time comes that I'm gonna be working on those chapters, I will be cutting and pasting and
00:57:17
◼
►
going from there. I guess maybe that's like the
00:57:21
◼
►
factual parts, right? Like the opinion part could change, or might not, but could change, right?
00:57:27
◼
►
honestly, the main risk with this story was how much time do I want to spend talking about Safari?
00:57:34
◼
►
Because I feel like that's the one feature that could change a lot. And that technically,
00:57:39
◼
►
to your point, could mean wasted time right now while I should be focusing on the review.
00:57:43
◼
►
But then I also thought, well, if I have a chance to somewhat influence some changes right now
00:57:52
◼
►
in Safari because I really care about Safari, then I guess I should share my opinion. You know,
00:57:57
◼
►
besides the podcast, like, I should have a place on Mac Stories where, you know, maybe somebody at
00:58:02
◼
►
Apple can go and be like, "Hey, look at this guy. He doesn't like this feature in Safari."
00:58:06
◼
►
So I thought maybe if it's useful to have it on the record on Mac Stories, I want to just point
00:58:14
◼
►
out and have a list of all the things that aren't working for me right now. Is that also part of the
00:58:20
◼
►
thinking behind the section I really enjoyed, which was what I'd like to see
00:58:24
◼
►
improved for each portion. Yes, so I thought what could be...
00:58:30
◼
►
So I went about those sections in two ways. One, I want to make it easier for
00:58:36
◼
►
people who maybe may have the power to affect some change. I wanted to make it
00:58:42
◼
►
easier to see a list of things, like a bullet list of things I do not like.
00:58:48
◼
►
But also I thought it could be easier and also fun to take a look at these
00:58:56
◼
►
bullet points in a few months, right, and do a comparison of like what's changed
00:59:02
◼
►
in the in the final release of iOS 15. And so it's for me and for other
00:59:08
◼
►
people as well. And also like it's a public beta, so like I wanted to make it
00:59:13
◼
►
easier to... you know, I have the story and all the sections and the
00:59:19
◼
►
opinions and all that, but also have a quick actionable place where you
00:59:24
◼
►
can go and see the things I don't like. Yeah, I think that was a really smart way
00:59:28
◼
►
of doing it as opposed to having it all as just one big thing. Wall of text, yes.
00:59:35
◼
►
Right, and I think especially with Safari, there are going to be people who download
00:59:39
◼
►
the public beta and freak out about how safari is and so having that available to them is
00:59:46
◼
►
I guess it also is fun in a way, not that I'm saying you would do this of course Federico,
00:59:52
◼
►
but it's fun in a way to as things change if they do change stuff you can point, someone
00:59:57
◼
►
could point to your article and be like "see I told you."
01:00:00
◼
►
No bragging rights.
01:00:01
◼
►
Not that you would do that.
01:00:02
◼
►
No I would do that.
01:00:03
◼
►
No I would do that.
01:00:04
◼
►
No I would do that.
01:00:05
◼
►
No I would do that.
01:00:06
◼
►
No I don't care.
01:00:07
◼
►
I mean come on.
01:00:08
◼
►
I mean, I've done the work and I believe in my opinions, so why not?
01:00:13
◼
►
So you broke this down into three main sections you were covering, which are arguably, or
01:00:19
◼
►
maybe not even arguably, the main areas of change.
01:00:22
◼
►
Focus, Safari, and iPadOS multitasking.
01:00:25
◼
►
I guess I honestly do think SharePlay could be more of a thing, but we haven't really
01:00:30
◼
►
been able to experience all that SharePlay can do yet.
01:00:33
◼
►
Like this might be a thing that we need to wait a bit more time to see, for you to at
01:00:37
◼
►
at least you would need to wait a bit more time
01:00:39
◼
►
to get some apps.
01:00:40
◼
►
- I'm very skeptical about that.
01:00:41
◼
►
Like, I think it's technically impressive,
01:00:44
◼
►
but the more time I spend looking at it
01:00:49
◼
►
and talking to developers who are building SharePlay apps,
01:00:53
◼
►
the more I feel like I'm living through the summer
01:00:57
◼
►
of iOS 10 again, and with iMessage apps.
01:01:02
◼
►
I am really getting that kind of vibe.
01:01:05
◼
►
Yeah, I think it's technically impressive, it's really cool.
01:01:10
◼
►
Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think this will catch on, really.
01:01:17
◼
►
I'm hoping to see some interesting collaboration things built out of the technology.
01:01:24
◼
►
OK, so here's the thing.
01:01:25
◼
►
If you want to use collaborative software, do you really want to be on a FaceTime call every single time?
01:01:32
◼
►
Do you always have to be on a FaceTime call?
01:01:34
◼
►
I thought there was that whiteboard app that everyone keeps talking about that they demoed
01:01:37
◼
►
in a thing. Was that on a FaceTime call?
01:01:40
◼
►
I think they always have to be initiated via FaceTime, right?
01:01:45
◼
►
I have no idea. If that's the case, then I don't want anything to do with it.
01:01:50
◼
►
That's my main issue with it. I believe SharePlay needs to be initiated from the FaceTime call,
01:01:56
◼
►
whether it's audio or video, but you need to be on a FaceTime call.
01:02:00
◼
►
it's not like Google Docs collaboration
01:02:03
◼
►
or Apple Notes collaboration.
01:02:05
◼
►
- Right, okay.
01:02:06
◼
►
- SharePlay is part of FaceTime,
01:02:08
◼
►
which is why I don't wanna be on a call every single time.
01:02:13
◼
►
And I may be wrong, again,
01:02:16
◼
►
developers have been able to submit SharePlay betas
01:02:18
◼
►
as of last night, I believe.
01:02:20
◼
►
And I haven't written the SharePlay chapter
01:02:24
◼
►
of my review yet, so I may be wrong.
01:02:26
◼
►
But I also, I'm pretty sure that it's all based
01:02:30
◼
►
FaceTime. So... But anyway, the areas that you focus on focus is one of the focus points.
01:02:36
◼
►
I'm excited about this feature. I haven't really spent the time setting stuff up properly yet
01:02:41
◼
►
because I only have focus. I only have iOS 15, iPadOS 15 on my iPad. I feel like until I put it
01:02:49
◼
►
on my iPhone, I'm going to wait to really spend the time setting up properly. So far, have you
01:02:56
◼
►
been enjoying having like a focus mode for your iOS review?
01:03:00
◼
►
Has it been beneficial to you?
01:03:02
◼
►
Yeah, it's been great.
01:03:03
◼
►
And it's been especially nice on iPad, where with the focus
01:03:07
◼
►
mode, you can obviously silence notifications,
01:03:11
◼
►
but also you can combine hiding other home screen pages, right?
01:03:16
◼
►
And I can also run shortcuts automatically
01:03:19
◼
►
when a specific focus is triggered.
01:03:22
◼
►
So that combination of, like, you enable a specific focus in Control Center and multiple things happen,
01:03:29
◼
►
that's been really beneficial to me. So that when I turn on the iOS Review Focus,
01:03:34
◼
►
I see my iOS Review home screen and a Timery shortcut is activated so that I can start a timer
01:03:41
◼
►
in toggle. So that's been really helpful, and I'm actually thinking about other home screens
01:03:49
◼
►
based along this idea, like maybe a music home screen could be fun, like when I'm sitting down
01:03:54
◼
►
and then listening to music with my Sony headphones and either an audio player or
01:04:00
◼
►
lossless in Apple music, maybe I could have a music home screen with a bunch of music widgets
01:04:05
◼
►
and you know that kind of stuff. I'm exploring that idea, yeah.
01:04:08
◼
►
I love how it can be tied into shortcuts. Yeah. Like it's so obvious, you know, like when you
01:04:16
◼
►
it's like that makes so much sense that as well as at having like a special home screen
01:04:21
◼
►
it could also just do things on the device for you. I'm into that, like I think that
01:04:26
◼
►
that's really smart. And I also like that it's two-way, right? That it can trigger some
01:04:31
◼
►
shortcuts when you turn it on, right? Or shortcuts can turn one on. If that makes sense. Like
01:04:39
◼
►
it's in two different ways it can be used. Yes. Which is cool. Yeah, that is really cool.
01:04:44
◼
►
And I think it, I think that makes it more likely that more people will use it as opposed
01:04:49
◼
►
to like it's a manual thing you forget all the time.
01:04:52
◼
►
Anything you can automate that way is better.
01:04:55
◼
►
I'm curious though, because this is much more up the alley of the two of you than it is
01:05:02
◼
►
Is this something like you will have something in use all the time, something that you will
01:05:06
◼
►
just have under certain circumstances?
01:05:08
◼
►
Like what have you learned about it and how you may use it so far?
01:05:11
◼
►
Well, I think for focus I prefer to activate it when I'm working, like for sure.
01:05:18
◼
►
Especially when I'm writing, and I need to just... I really need to concentrate and just
01:05:26
◼
►
think about writing, whether it's the review or the newsletter or max stories,
01:05:31
◼
►
that's been really helpful. I created my own driving focus because I didn't like the default
01:05:38
◼
►
one, like for example with the default driving mode, it disables interactions
01:05:43
◼
►
altogether on the iPhone. And I'm not saying that I want to use my iPhone while
01:05:48
◼
►
I'm driving, but that also means that my girlfriend needs to confirm every single
01:05:52
◼
►
time, like I'm not driving, let me use this iPhone if she wants to control
01:05:56
◼
►
music on my device, which is connected to Bluetooth. And also if I'm
01:06:02
◼
►
waiting at a stop because I got a red light for example I need to say I'm not
01:06:08
◼
►
driving but I'm still technically driving so I think that's a bit
01:06:13
◼
►
tiresome after a while so I created my own driving
01:06:17
◼
►
focus that basically does all the things that the Apple one does but it doesn't
01:06:22
◼
►
have the disabling interactions on the lock screen. And the other modes... so I
01:06:30
◼
►
I was thinking a few days ago, like, I could have a beach mode, for example, where when
01:06:36
◼
►
I turn on--and I haven't built this yet, but I think I will--where I could use focus not
01:06:42
◼
►
necessarily to silence notifications, but as a trigger for other things.
01:06:48
◼
►
So like enabling low-power mode, for example.
01:06:52
◼
►
Switching off the 5G network, because I don't have 5G at the beach, despite being vaccinated.
01:06:59
◼
►
it. And, you know, so basically using Focus as a manual trigger for contextual changes
01:07:10
◼
►
that I want to apply to my iPhone. I am also not the kind of person who is going to keep
01:07:15
◼
►
Do Not Disturb enabled at all times during the day, right? If I'm browsing Twitter or
01:07:21
◼
►
Or if I'm doing email, not that kind of creative work, it's fine if I get notifications.
01:07:29
◼
►
So for me, I think on a regular basis, I'm mostly going to enable it when I'm writing.
01:07:36
◼
►
Even when I'm recording podcasts, for example, I need to be able to see notifications if
01:07:40
◼
►
something happens.
01:07:41
◼
►
Like if my dogs do something in the other room and I have a HomeKit camera, or if Sylvia
01:07:46
◼
►
is texting me.
01:07:48
◼
►
I need to be able to get alerts when I'm doing a podcast.
01:07:51
◼
►
But when I'm doing creative work, that's when I want to block distractions.
01:07:56
◼
►
So for me, it is what you just said, which is what I like.
01:08:00
◼
►
So at the moment, all I have is all notifications of Do Not Disturb.
01:08:05
◼
►
And my plan is to make some focus modes for certain things.
01:08:09
◼
►
Like I would have a recording podcast focus mode, which would allow certain notifications
01:08:15
◼
►
to come through.
01:08:16
◼
►
It's like I have Do Not Disturb on my iMac all the time,
01:08:20
◼
►
so I'm not getting all kinds of notifications
01:08:22
◼
►
while we're recording, so I'm not distracted.
01:08:25
◼
►
But it could mean that I miss something important.
01:08:28
◼
►
Like, if one of you needs to tell me something
01:08:30
◼
►
during the show, I just have to hope I'm going to see it, right?
01:08:34
◼
►
Like, randomly, because I noticed
01:08:36
◼
►
that the iMessage thing is ticking up, right?
01:08:39
◼
►
Like, the badge on the app icon.
01:08:42
◼
►
But what I would really like is on my Mac for, say,
01:08:45
◼
►
are group thread on iMessage to actually be able to notify me rather than then and then
01:08:51
◼
►
also being able to get rid of messages from everybody else during that period of time
01:08:54
◼
►
you know. So for me like I'm gonna be pretty granular I think and I'm gonna set up a bunch.
01:09:00
◼
►
I'm not gonna have I think it sync across all my devices so like I leave my iPads in
01:09:08
◼
►
do not disturb all the time. Same. Because I just don't need that but that means like
01:09:13
◼
►
you know I can't have those sync so like for example I may just set up like an
01:09:16
◼
►
iPad focus mode and just put both of my iPads on that one right for example or
01:09:21
◼
►
something like that so I'm really into it but one of the other things which is
01:09:25
◼
►
super cool about it is the home screen things like you're saying about the
01:09:28
◼
►
beach right that there might be a certain set of apps which are like more
01:09:31
◼
►
helpful for you to have right there on the home screen when you're at the beach
01:09:35
◼
►
or widgets or whatever so all of that stuff is like it's awesome I think yeah
01:09:41
◼
►
that has impressed me about it so far is how deep the customization seems to be and I think we could debate and and I
01:09:49
◼
►
suspect that you will
01:09:51
◼
►
in the review about
01:09:53
◼
►
Sort of the opt-in versus opt-out and type of settings you have like I think it could be even
01:09:59
◼
►
Easier in some ways, but the fact that it touches home screen changes
01:10:05
◼
►
Which we saw show up last year for the first time the fact that it sinks across like
01:10:09
◼
►
It's a new feature, but it's taking advantage
01:10:12
◼
►
of other features that Apple already has had.
01:10:14
◼
►
And I like when they are able to build on
01:10:17
◼
►
what they've had in the past.
01:10:19
◼
►
Sometimes Apple has something come out and it's like,
01:10:22
◼
►
"Well, this is connected to this other thing,
01:10:24
◼
►
but you didn't hook it up.
01:10:26
◼
►
Why aren't these things talking to each other?"
01:10:28
◼
►
And with this, it feels like focus is really thought through
01:10:32
◼
►
across all the different platforms and features
01:10:35
◼
►
where it makes sense.
01:10:36
◼
►
- Even the fact that you can,
01:10:38
◼
►
applications can make it so like if you if Steven messaged me on slack it would
01:10:43
◼
►
still come through for example because it's still Steven. Yeah hopefully they do
01:10:47
◼
►
that. Although I don't exactly know how that works yeah no that is a thing that
01:10:51
◼
►
can happen. Oh I know I know I'm saying hopefully slack takes advantage of that
01:10:54
◼
►
because. Yeah I don't really know how that works but that's not for me to know.
01:10:59
◼
►
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analytic services, user behavior, measurement services, email tracking
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pixels, and more on all of the apps
01:11:59
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on your iOS device. It's a great addition to the Safari content blockers that work just in Safari.
01:12:05
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One blocker is secure by design. All the blocking is performed in the background of the device
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itself. Your traffic will not be sent through VPN servers, which also means no slowdowns. I've had
01:12:17
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one blocker on all my devices for years. It really is great. I like that I can have custom rules,
01:12:24
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which I really find useful. It's just it's a great, great app. As a listener of connected,
01:12:29
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you can get a two week free trial plus a month of premium for free at one blocker.com/connected.
01:12:37
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And one blocker is a universal purchase. So buy it once and download it on both your iOS and Mac OS
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devices. It also supports family sharing for up to six people. So once again, go to one blocker.com/connected
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for a two-week free trial and a month of premium for free. Our thanks to OneBlocker for the support
01:12:58
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of the show and Relay FM. Safari, I mean I've read your article so I know the answer to this,
01:13:05
◼
►
but any change in feelings? There's a few things that I like in the new Safari, right?
01:13:13
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the start page extensions, well, the fact that the tab view is now a grid view, I think that's really,
01:13:23
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that's so much better than iOS 14. But the more I use Safari, the more I feel like,
01:13:28
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especially on the iPhone, I think we mentioned this before, I feel like the iPad version
01:13:33
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is somewhere in the middle. I know that Steven also has a lot of opinions about Safari on the Mac,
01:13:40
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and I feel like Safari on the iPhone, the more I use it, the more I keep coming to the same conclusion.
01:13:47
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I got one positive change out of this, which is, yeah, I have an address bar at the bottom,
01:13:55
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and that's easier to reach. But because of that single positive change, there's a whole list of
01:14:04
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negative changes, right? A whole list of trade-offs that needed to happen in order to make that design
01:14:11
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possible. And it's been three weeks, right? So you will hope that if the argument was "it's just a
01:14:20
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matter of muscle memory," you will hope that in almost a month, since I've been using this, I
01:14:26
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will get the hang of it, and I will be used to it at this point, especially because I'm really using
01:14:31
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it, and I'm taking notes, and I'm writing about it, and I'm using it every day. But every time I use
01:14:36
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it, I'm like, man, I really don't like this. Like, yeah, it's easier to reach, but everything else
01:14:42
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is, at least for me, worse than before. And I pick up my XS Max running iOS 14, which is my test
01:14:51
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device for the old OS, and I look at Safari, and I'm like, you know, the address bar is at the top,
01:14:57
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but everything else is so much nicer. I got proper navigation arrows and a share button
01:15:02
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and a reload button, and I got a pop-up menu for website settings. Everything is in its right place,
01:15:08
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and I don't have to go hunt down things in secret menus or via hidden gestures. And so I have to
01:15:16
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wonder, which is also what I wrote in the story, I have to wonder, is it really worth it to accept
01:15:25
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all these trade-offs just to have that unified address bar at the bottom. And that's on the
01:15:31
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iPhone. On the iPad you could also say it's somewhat better because you have a sidebar
01:15:37
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that makes access to certain features easier, because they're right there in the sidebar,
01:15:42
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but that tab view on iPad with the unified design where the current tab is also the address bar
01:15:50
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and you don't have the separation between tabs and address bar anymore,
01:15:54
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that's also really rough. And again, I wonder, sure, I've probably gained like 20, 30 pixels
01:16:04
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on web pages, right? I see 20 more vertical pixels on a web page, but everything else is so much
01:16:12
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worse than before. Is that really worth it? And I'm not sure the answer is yes. I don't think the
01:16:18
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answer is yes. Now, I also feel like Apple really believes in this design, and I mean,
01:16:26
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you can tell because they also did a WWDC session about designing for the new Safari.
01:16:31
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That's usually not a good sign as to how much things can change, right? I mean, the company
01:16:36
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did a session about it, and they have documentation, so...
01:16:40
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That's what I keep thinking about, like, if they change it, does that session just, like,
01:16:43
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quietly go away? It's like, "It is never here!"
01:16:46
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Do you just invalidate the session? So maybe the solution is just make it a setting.
01:16:53
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And I know that it's not an attractive proposition.
01:16:57
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Well, there's no point keeping it if you make it a setting.
01:17:00
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Well, maybe some folks like the address bar at the bottom.
01:17:04
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Maybe some folks don't want to have this standalone address bar.
01:17:08
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I don't think this is the kind of thing where a single universal design completes everyone.
01:17:15
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No, they're gonna choose, in my opinion, they choose a route.
01:17:19
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They stick to what they're doing now, or they refine what they're doing now, or they go back.
01:17:23
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Because stuff like the fact that they want the entire web to redesign to deal with this,
01:17:30
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they're not gonna get that if you can turn it off, right?
01:17:35
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I would be really surprised if they made any of the Safari UI stuff a setting.
01:17:41
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Like I cannot imagine that being a thing that they would do.
01:17:45
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well then I guess...
01:17:46
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they're just gonna make you like it right?
01:17:48
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or you know as in like you're just gonna have to deal with it
01:17:51
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or they'll change it
01:17:53
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honestly I think that's what's gonna happen realistically
01:17:57
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they're just gonna listen to feedback, apply some changes
01:18:01
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like maybe the reload button will come back
01:18:03
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maybe you know the largest part...
01:18:06
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that's just part of the way there right?
01:18:07
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so iPadOS and MacOS beta 2 have brought the reload button back in some way
01:18:12
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on hover yeah
01:18:15
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They kind of brought it back.
01:18:17
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But yeah, I think you're right.
01:18:19
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I don't think they're going to make it a setting.
01:18:21
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I think they're just going to force us to use this for a year until, you know, maybe
01:18:28
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►
actually we'll see another replica of what happened with Mail, where they tried to force
01:18:34
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►
us to use the Simplified toolbar in Apple Mail, and as soon as they pushed it out to
01:18:40
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►
public release, everybody started complaining like, "I don't know how to archive my mail
01:18:45
◼
►
anymore. I don't know how to reply to mail anymore." And they needed to change that in
01:18:49
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►
the next bit. What was that? iOS 13, I think, or 14?
01:18:52
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Yeah, everything was just behind the reply button.
01:18:56
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And a lot of stuff still is. They moved like two things out of it. So I think if that's
01:19:02
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the recipe, then we'll see a couple of minor Safari changes. I think mostly on the iPhone,
01:19:07
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I agree with you. I think that's where it's the worst and yeah, but the rest of us here to stay
01:19:12
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I can tell you I
01:19:14
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►
Gave my iPhone to see you a few days ago because I asked her can you look up something on Google and she opened Safari?
01:19:20
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►
And I could tell that she didn't know what to do because she just kept staring at the phone and I was like oh
01:19:26
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Yeah, that's the new Safari and she the only thing she said was I hate it. So
01:19:34
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She's got a pretty good sense of how the general public sees these things.
01:19:41
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I want to see how this goes, honestly.
01:19:43
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This is why they do the public beta, though, right?
01:19:46
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Still, regular people don't install the public beta.
01:19:49
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Right? It's still like tech.
01:19:51
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I think it's more than you think, man.
01:19:53
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Yeah, they gave a number a couple of years ago, and it was millions and millions of users.
01:19:59
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I mean, it wasn't a billion, but it's more than just the connected audience.
01:20:04
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There is a like there's like expanding circles of people and like there are people that are quote
01:20:12
◼
►
interested in technology that we would consider general users right because they're not listening
01:20:21
◼
►
to this show or any tech podcast but they love gadgets we've all met these people in our lives
01:20:26
◼
►
right people who love gadgets like the type of person that will say to you oh man Apple sucks
01:20:32
◼
►
for all these reasons and you know like you like or like hey do you know I was
01:20:37
◼
►
reading do you know that Apple plans for their devices to go obsolete you know
01:20:43
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►
we've all met these people right like it's that kind of user who I think is
01:20:48
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►
still more of a general user but they are interested in technology and I think
01:20:54
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►
that is a very large amount of people and they're gonna be as upset about
01:21:00
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►
Safari as probably you and every other user in the world. Well, maybe if they work harder, they'll become Admiral users
01:21:06
◼
►
That's good. Not just general users. That's really good. We'll see. We'll see
01:21:11
◼
►
I wonder if those people also file feedback that Apple sees and act upon like there's also a conversation to be had here
01:21:19
◼
►
Yeah, what what's the feedback like what's Apple's relationship to feedback in this case my expectation?
01:21:26
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►
With the public beta is Apple pays attention to what is trending on Twitter? I hope so
01:21:32
◼
►
Yeah, so with our look it'll trend the day iOS 15 comes out. I mean
01:21:37
◼
►
Yeah, Safari's got to be in the top
01:21:40
◼
►
Three or four most used apps on the phone, but people are gonna freak out
01:21:45
◼
►
Especially because this tab design and this layout isn't anywhere else
01:21:50
◼
►
It's not like messages and mail and files
01:21:54
◼
►
Got all this like stuff at the bottom and doing all these weirdo slidey things like it's just Safari
01:22:00
◼
►
if it were everywhere, maybe people would be
01:22:06
◼
►
Upset about it or like upset in a different way. That's a really good point Steven. Why is only Safari like this?
01:22:13
◼
►
Mm-hmm. Give me those tabs and finder. No, I was kidding. Please. Please don't Apple. Please don't but just like
01:22:18
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►
Also, just like moving the most important UI to the bottom
01:22:22
◼
►
Yeah, well, and they've done it in Apple Maps, but Apple Maps looks totally different from
01:22:25
◼
►
Safari. It's like, pick a lane.
01:22:27
◼
►
Honestly, you want to hear my opinion on this?
01:22:31
◼
►
This to me feels like the kind of thing where someone in design spent a lot of time using
01:22:38
◼
►
Safari on the iPhone last year, and they decided, "You know what? I think we need to put this
01:22:44
◼
►
at the bottom, because I think it's harder for me to use." I'm not convinced that a lot
01:22:50
◼
►
of engineers in the Safari team like the new Safari. But it's just how these things go,
01:22:56
◼
►
you know? You're told high up enough. You're told that you need to ship a certain design,
01:23:02
◼
►
and that's just what you gotta do, and then maybe you don't like it, and maybe you try
01:23:07
◼
►
to work things out with your manager, right? And you tell them, "Look, this is bad for
01:23:12
◼
►
this and these reasons, but that manager needs to go to another manager." You know? You know
01:23:17
◼
►
know how these companies work, Myke, you worked in a big company. And it's like sometimes
01:23:22
◼
►
someone high up makes a decision and it trickles down and you just got to make it happen. And
01:23:28
◼
►
but this is why we this is why we do podcasts. This is why we write articles. This is why
01:23:33
◼
►
I do the bullet list, right? To try and and sway opinions in certain directions when I
01:23:39
◼
►
believe that things are not good enough. And and this really honestly this really sucks
01:23:46
◼
►
for me because I really love Safari, and I really like... I know a lot of people who
01:23:50
◼
►
work on Safari, and they're really smart people, and Safari has always been like one of the
01:23:56
◼
►
few apps that I take out from my apps chapter, and I make it a standalone chapter in my review.
01:24:03
◼
►
That's how much I care about Safari, because I really use Safari a lot. But this is not
01:24:09
◼
►
good enough. I don't know. I don't know.
01:24:13
◼
►
In iPad OS multitasking, I would like to take a moment here to talk about a regression in
01:24:17
◼
►
beta 2 that I'm really upset about.
01:24:19
◼
►
So in beta 1, there were two keyboard shortcuts that you could use.
01:24:25
◼
►
One to replace the app on the left and one to replace the app on the right.
01:24:29
◼
►
These have been replaced now with one keyboard shortcut, which replaces the app that you're
01:24:34
◼
►
currently focused on, which isn't always as clear as it seems.
01:24:39
◼
►
You might want to replace the app on the left and you do like globe another key down and
01:24:47
◼
►
it replaces whatever app the iPadOS thinks is in focus.
01:24:52
◼
►
That might not be the one that you wanted to change.
01:24:56
◼
►
So I think they've made a mistake here with this change because they have, when you only
01:25:02
◼
►
have one app open, there is two keyboard shortcuts, tile window left and tile window right.
01:25:08
◼
►
you can pick the other one. But then when you have two open, it goes to one keyboard
01:25:12
◼
►
shortcut which is replace app. And I don't understand why they've done this. Because
01:25:19
◼
►
then the tile window left and tile window right ones, the new ones, what they let you
01:25:24
◼
►
do is flip the apps that you're using. Right? So the left one becomes the right one, the
01:25:29
◼
►
right one becomes the left one. It feels like that they have made it both more simple and
01:25:33
◼
►
more complicated than it was in beta 1 and I don't understand why they've done this.
01:25:38
◼
►
So what you're asking for is to restore separate keyboard shortcuts for replacing the app on
01:25:47
◼
►
either side. So replace app on the left, replace app on the right.
01:25:51
◼
►
Yeah, I mean it's just "tile window left" and "tile window right", but always.
01:25:56
◼
►
Which is what it was before. But now, when you have two apps open, "tile window left"
01:26:00
◼
►
and tile window right, those keyboard shortcuts do a different thing, which is flip the apps
01:26:07
◼
►
Right, right.
01:26:08
◼
►
And I don't really know why you'd do that.
01:26:09
◼
►
I feel like these keyboard commands that you're asking for, they should exist, and you could
01:26:14
◼
►
potentially also combine them with Spotlight, right?
01:26:17
◼
►
So you could see how, because right now, and I wrote about this in the story, right now,
01:26:22
◼
►
if you want to bring in a different app into a split view using search, you need to kind
01:26:27
◼
►
do it backwards, which is first you need to tile a window and then you need to search.
01:26:34
◼
►
Whereas I think it would be much easier to just say "let me search, let me highlight
01:26:39
◼
►
the app I want to use" and then let me press a keyboard command to say "put this on the
01:26:44
◼
►
left" or "put this on the right".
01:26:46
◼
►
I hope the reason that they have changed the shortcuts is because they're working on that
01:26:53
◼
►
That's what I hope.
01:26:54
◼
►
But that is a hope.
01:26:55
◼
►
But at the moment it seems like they have I think made it more complicated and not as
01:27:01
◼
►
useful as it was in beta 1.
01:27:03
◼
►
Where you could have a reliable shortcut, a keyboard shortcut that did the reliable
01:27:08
◼
►
thing every time.
01:27:09
◼
►
You did the one for left and you changed the app on the left, you did the one for right
01:27:12
◼
►
and you changed the app on the right.
01:27:14
◼
►
Where now you can do that when you have one app open but then when you have two app opens
01:27:18
◼
►
it just swaps the apps around.
01:27:19
◼
►
Which doesn't make any sense to me.
01:27:21
◼
►
And then you have to do a different keyboard shortcut to replace one of the apps but the
01:27:24
◼
►
app that, but whenever you hit that you have to already know which app is in focus, which is not
01:27:29
◼
►
an easy thing to do still on iPadOS, or it can be easy to know which is in focus, but to get the
01:27:35
◼
►
iPadOS to change which app it thinks is the focused app is still a problem. I still kind of wish that
01:27:42
◼
►
there was a like an accessibility setting to make the active app indicator more visually prominent.
01:27:49
◼
►
So, like, I think a really good example here is Obsidian. When you open multiple notes and you have
01:27:56
◼
►
multiple panes open in Obsidian, you get this thin colored bar right underneath the title bar.
01:28:06
◼
►
And that's really helpful because it's like a highlight for the active note, right?
01:28:14
◼
►
And I kind of would like to see that, like colored highlights,
01:28:20
◼
►
like something else besides the little pill-shaped indicator
01:28:25
◼
►
that gets slightly darker for the active application
01:28:29
◼
►
in the split view.
01:28:31
◼
►
I still feel like that should be more visually obvious as to
01:28:35
◼
►
which app of the two is the active one.
01:28:37
◼
►
I'm going to see how this goes.
01:28:39
◼
►
I think if it's not changed in the next beta,
01:28:41
◼
►
I'll file the feedback.
01:28:42
◼
►
because this is a particularly difficult one for me to try and explain in a feedback because
01:28:47
◼
►
it's complicated and also I don't remember what the previous shortcuts were, right? So
01:28:53
◼
►
like to try and explain it is complicated. I did file one feedback, remember I think
01:28:58
◼
►
I was complaining about the fact that they broke indenting and out then or was it indent
01:29:02
◼
►
left and indent right? They fixed it. They haven't updated my feedback but they fixed
01:29:07
◼
►
it. So, hooray! You can't have everything you want, Myke. That's true. That's very true.
01:29:12
◼
►
I can only get one thing at a time. That's right. So if I want indent, what is it indent left and indent right? Mm-hmm
01:29:19
◼
►
I have to lose the multitasking shortcuts that I want. Yeah, you can only have one left to right feature
01:29:26
◼
►
So too bad anything else in beta 2 we should talk about?
01:29:30
◼
►
Maybe not today
01:29:33
◼
►
Okay. Yeah, we will revisit this because we have a long summer of betas ahead of us
01:29:38
◼
►
Until then if you want if we may have beta we may have beta 3 next week, so right
01:29:44
◼
►
We'll see where they go back to Safari from iOS 7
01:29:46
◼
►
You want it simple huh look honestly brushed metal Safari on the iPhone
01:29:52
◼
►
Okay, I'm saying they have it somewhere on a hard drive
01:29:57
◼
►
I will say Federico if they bring back that old tab view because of you. I'll never forgive you
01:30:03
◼
►
No, you can keep the grid view. Look, it's not that difficult.
01:30:07
◼
►
Literally every other iPhone browser does this. They have a button to open tabs
01:30:13
◼
►
and when you click that you see a grid view. The grid view does not depend on the other things.
01:30:22
◼
►
I see. Just like, "You don't want the new Safari features, huh? You don't get any of them. They're all gone."
01:30:28
◼
►
All right well if you want to find links of stuff we spoke about including Federico's excellent overview of where
01:30:34
◼
►
iOS and iPad OS 15 are
01:30:37
◼
►
Check out our show notes this week. You can find those links on the web at relay.fm/connected/352
01:30:45
◼
►
While you're there you can get in touch with feedback or follow up
01:30:49
◼
►
There's an email link there on the side of the page, or you can do it on Twitter
01:30:53
◼
►
You can find us all there Federico is there is Vitici V I T I CCI
01:30:57
◼
►
of course he's the editor-in-chief of MacStories.net and hard at work on
01:31:02
◼
►
reviews I know John is too so y'all are busy boys. You can find Myke on Twitter
01:31:08
◼
►
as @imike Myke what's something else cool that you do? I would like to
01:31:15
◼
►
recommend people go and listen to the most recent episode of The Test Drivers
01:31:19
◼
►
where we interviewed Panos Panay who's the chief product officer at Microsoft
01:31:24
◼
►
for Windows and devices. It was a really great interview. I really enjoyed it.
01:31:29
◼
►
He's a cool guy. Very cool. You can find me on Twitter as ismh and my
01:31:35
◼
►
writing over at 512pixels.net. If you like this show and looking for other
01:31:40
◼
►
cool podcasts from Relay FM check out Make Do. You don't have to monetize your
01:31:45
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hobbies but if you want to Make Do is ready to be your cheerleader in podcast
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form. Listen as you work on your hobby with Tiff Armit and Julia Scott over
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at relay.fm/makedoo or search for Make Do wherever you get your podcasts.
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I'd like to thank Memberful, Hello, and OneBlocker for sponsoring this episode of
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Connected and until next time guys say goodbye.
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Adios, adios.