Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► (upbeat music)

00:00:02 ◼   ► - From Relay FM, this is Connected, episode 386.

00:00:11 ◼   ► Today's show is brought to you by Squarespace,

00:00:13 ◼   ► Hover, and Trade Coffee.

00:00:15 ◼   ► My name is Myke Hurley,

00:00:16 ◼   ► and I'm joined by Federico Vitti.

00:00:18 ◼   ► Hi Federico.

00:00:19 ◼   ► - Hello Myke, how are you?

00:00:21 ◼   ► - I'm good my friend, how are you?

00:00:23 ◼   ► - I am doing fantastic, and we are also joined today

00:00:26 ◼   ► but the one and only true, the one true man

00:00:30 ◼   ► from Tennessee, America, Mr. Stephen Hackett.

00:00:33 ◼   ► How are you, sir?

00:00:34 ◼   ► - Hello, why am I last?

00:00:38 ◼   ► - Because this is the way, this is the way,

00:00:41 ◼   ► this is the way it works now.

00:00:42 ◼   ► We have a new website, it's connectedintro.com.

00:00:47 ◼   ► This was put together by Zach and Matt,

00:00:49 ◼   ► who are mods in our Discord.

00:00:51 ◼   ► It's a lovely website and it will now tell us

00:00:53 ◼   ► in pure round robin style who introduces who,

00:00:56 ◼   ► who goes first, and then we're never gonna be able

00:00:59 ◼   ► to complain again.

00:01:00 ◼   ► I'm really intrigued though, like what will happen

00:01:03 ◼   ► on the weeks where someone's not around?

00:01:06 ◼   ► - Well, it's a call-in show.

00:01:08 ◼   ► You gotta call in for the intro.

00:01:09 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:01:11 ◼   ► Or we build some sort of AI.

00:01:15 ◼   ► Or actually what needs to happen is these guys

00:01:19 ◼   ► need to build some sort of AI that can fake us

00:01:22 ◼   ► when we're not available.

00:01:24 ◼   ► No, this is an amazing website.

00:01:26 ◼   ► It was published, like,

00:01:28 ◼   ► I think before the episode went up.

00:01:31 ◼   ► Like, they did it while I was editing it.

00:01:34 ◼   ► It has some amazing artwork, which you should go check out.

00:01:37 ◼   ► And this is how we will introduce the show

00:01:41 ◼   ► from now on, until we die.

00:01:44 ◼   ► - Jeez. - Okay, okay.

00:01:46 ◼   ► - Or the website dies.

00:01:48 ◼   ► Who will live longer, you know?

00:01:50 ◼   ► I don't understand why death has to be involved, but okay.

00:01:53 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:01:54 ◼   ► Good website.

00:01:56 ◼   ► Never know.

00:01:57 ◼   ► Minus the death.

00:01:58 ◼   ► Okay.

00:01:59 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Yes.

00:02:00 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:01 ◼   ► Thank you to...

00:02:02 ◼   ► Who created the website?

00:02:04 ◼   ► Zach and Matt.

00:02:04 ◼   ► Zach and Matt.

00:02:04 ◼   ► It's written right there in the document.

00:02:06 ◼   ► It's like right in front of you.

00:02:07 ◼   ► I lost my place in the document.

00:02:09 ◼   ► I could tell.

00:02:09 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Okay.

00:02:10 ◼   ► Zach and Matt.

00:02:11 ◼   ► Thank you.

00:02:12 ◼   ► We have some feedback.

00:02:14 ◼   ► I want to jump straight into like real follow-up that is not about, you know, the show itself.

00:02:19 ◼   ► We have some follow-up from Ryan in Discord about classical music that we talked about last week

00:02:24 ◼   ► regarding the Apple classical app that seems to be launching on Android, and I have to assume any on other platforms as well, as

00:02:33 ◼   ► the

00:02:35 ◼   ► standalone experience that Apple mentioned months ago when they acquired Primephonic, the service for classical music. And Ryan wrote a

00:02:43 ◼   ► much better

00:02:45 ◼   ► summary of what I was trying to explain on the show. So Ryan obviously know what they're talking

00:02:50 ◼   ► about when it comes to classical music, and I'm just gonna paraphrase here, I'm just gonna read

00:02:54 ◼   ► here from this paragraph because it really sums it up well. "The experience of trying to find

00:02:59 ◼   ► recordings of pieces of classical music has always been pretty broken in any music streaming or

00:03:05 ◼   ► purchasing service, even back in the iTunes day." This is what I was trying to explain. "The model

00:03:10 ◼   ► that Apple went with for categorizing their music is not really compatible with classical music.

00:03:15 ◼   ► You're dealing with at least three individuals or groups, the composer, the ensemble, the conductor,

00:03:24 ◼   ► and the soloists, that all have very important parts in making the music. There are different

00:03:30 ◼   ► types of ensembles that all have their classical, their musical traditions, music from different

00:03:36 ◼   ► time periods, and this was also something else that I wanted to mention, the year that

00:03:40 ◼   ► the piece was composed is usually different than when the recording was made. And many

00:03:46 ◼   ► more factors that differentiate classical music from popular music in terms of a categorization

00:03:53 ◼   ► standpoint. So yeah, there are so many different variables when it comes to how do you properly

00:03:59 ◼   ► categorize classical music, because it's not like pop music at all. And so if you want

00:04:05 ◼   ► to have a very good experience for folks who want to listen to classical music on a streaming

00:04:11 ◼   ► service, you probably have to make a separate experience that is just for that.

00:04:16 ◼   ► This really opened my eyes as to why it needs to be a separate experience. Like, trying

00:04:21 ◼   ► to cram all of this in the music app as we know it today, like, I just don't see a way

00:04:26 ◼   ► that would be feasible, because you have all these additional fields and all this additional

00:04:32 ◼   ► data that people want to search and filter by all those things.

00:04:37 ◼   ► I'd kind of wondered when this was announced, why are they doing it separately?

00:04:41 ◼   ► Why not just have maybe even a section in the music app?

00:04:44 ◼   ► But Ryan's comment really made me understand what these users want is really totally different

00:04:52 ◼   ► from what other music kind of needs.

00:04:56 ◼   ► And so yeah, to best serve them, of course it would be a separate app.

00:05:01 ◼   ► like from like an architectural standpoint you have to begin again.

00:05:04 ◼   ► I would just say as somebody who lived through the Green Gate period I want no more classical

00:05:13 ◼   ► music follow-up.

00:05:15 ◼   ► If you have more to add on this just, I don't know, email it to a friend.

00:05:21 ◼   ► No more.

00:05:22 ◼   ► Write a blog post.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I honestly feel like classical music, no I disagree with that.

00:05:29 ◼   ► classical music people have my sympathy. They're good people, they know what they're talking

00:05:33 ◼   ► about. I don't doubt that. They have, classical people, they have, and I really like using

00:05:38 ◼   ► this word, they have exquisite taste. You see that Federico? The reason I'm saying all

00:05:45 ◼   ► this is because I can feel in you that you would happily just keep talking about this

00:05:51 ◼   ► every single week. It is very rare that we have a piece of follow up which is not labelled

00:05:58 ◼   ► you just start doing it. That's a rare... I was quite surprised when you just took that

00:06:02 ◼   ► upon yourself. So I can see where this is going. I don't want to keep dealing with this

00:06:08 ◼   ► like we had to deal with Steven. Because Myke hates music. I hate music. I hate music and

00:06:14 ◼   ► green. Our podcast does open with classical music if you haven't heard it in a while.

00:06:21 ◼   ► Does it though? To me that's just the connected theme song. I don't know. Yeah I don't know

00:06:24 ◼   ► who actually wrote it. I did. I did in GarageBand one weekend. Settle down.

00:06:32 ◼   ► No, if you did it, it would have like a bunch of drum and bass beats. Yeah, yeah,

00:06:36 ◼   ► there's a lot of techno. Isn't that an intro from an Apple event? In a garage, making beats

00:06:41 ◼   ► with Apple sounds? Yes. That was the music Steven wish he could have made. Yeah.

00:06:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:06:46 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:06:47 ◼   ► - I have purchased a battery backup for my network closet.

00:06:53 ◼   ► So last week's episode, I disappeared for a while.

00:06:56 ◼   ► And one of the things I did when I was editing,

00:06:58 ◼   ► I was like, you know what?

00:06:59 ◼   ► It's time to finally fix this.

00:07:01 ◼   ► The reason I haven't done it is that all my stuff

00:07:04 ◼   ► is in the top of one of my children's closets.

00:07:07 ◼   ► It's like in the center of the house

00:07:08 ◼   ► where the internet comes in and I have the modem,

00:07:13 ◼   ► the cable modem from Xfinity,

00:07:15 ◼   ► and then a switch and an Eero.

00:07:18 ◼   ► So anyways, I've bought a battery bracket

00:07:19 ◼   ► that will fit kind of in on the shelf.

00:07:22 ◼   ► So a lot of battery backups people have,

00:07:24 ◼   ► like the one I have under my desk is a vertical one.

00:07:27 ◼   ► There's like a little PC tower kind of

00:07:29 ◼   ► with lots of outlets in the back.

00:07:30 ◼   ► And this one is more horizontal with the plugs on top.

00:07:34 ◼   ► And so anyways, I got it.

00:07:35 ◼   ► I did it this weekend.

00:07:36 ◼   ► So now if my power just blinks,

00:07:39 ◼   ► I will stay online because all that's on a battery backup

00:07:42 ◼   ► where the Switch and Eero are plugged into my office

00:07:46 ◼   ► 'cause there's ethernet running

00:07:47 ◼   ► between the house and the studio.

00:07:48 ◼   ► That's on a battery backup.

00:07:50 ◼   ► My Mac Pro is on a battery backup.

00:07:52 ◼   ► - How long would you get?

00:07:54 ◼   ► - The Mac Pro, not super long,

00:07:57 ◼   ► but I think the network would stay up for a while

00:07:59 ◼   ► 'cause it's just like a couple of little boxes.

00:08:02 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:08:03 ◼   ► - It's very exciting.

00:08:04 ◼   ► - Spotify car thing.

00:08:06 ◼   ► This is something we spoke about a while ago.

00:08:10 ◼   ► It is like Spotify built their own pseudo in,

00:08:15 ◼   ► I was gonna say in flight, in car entertainment system,

00:08:19 ◼   ► 'cause you could use it in flight maybe.

00:08:21 ◼   ► It is not a standalone player.

00:08:25 ◼   ► I don't even think it has any storage.

00:08:28 ◼   ► All it does is connects to your phone and your car

00:08:33 ◼   ► so you can play Spotify music through your car stereo

00:08:39 ◼   ► car stereo with a nice little screen and a dial and a bunch of tactile buttons on

00:08:45 ◼   ► it. I think Steven probably put this in there, basically a fancy remote

00:08:51 ◼   ► control for Spotify on your iPhone or Android phone and this was previously an

00:08:55 ◼   ► invite thing you could apply to get one but now anyone can buy it it's $89.

00:09:01 ◼   ► Yeah I mean I think it's a pretty smart way of doing it because if since

00:09:07 ◼   ► it doesn't have like its own cellular connection and its own like playback

00:09:13 ◼   ► mechanism or you know decoding or anything like that I think it's why the

00:09:17 ◼   ► price can be the 90 bucks that it is which is I think reasonable for what

00:09:23 ◼   ► this does if you're into Spotify and you have a car that is basically just

00:09:28 ◼   ► Bluetooth or aux in so you maybe you drive something a little bit older that

00:09:31 ◼   ► doesn't have CarPlay or Android Auto this sort of bridges the gap to those

00:09:35 ◼   ► things and and I honestly I really like the hardware I mean I haven't played

00:09:40 ◼   ► with one so it may feel terrible but I love the way that it looks and I think a

00:09:45 ◼   ► really clever thing they've done is along the top ledge you can't really see

00:09:49 ◼   ► them but they're kind of behind the front the top lip are four hardware

00:09:55 ◼   ► buttons that you can program to go to your favorites so if you have a

00:09:59 ◼   ► favorite playlist or station and Spotify or album you can just reach up and hit

00:10:05 ◼   ► the button and go to it I'm glad someone thought of that I think it's a pretty

00:10:10 ◼   ► good idea I am just surprised it doesn't even have a little like some some

00:10:14 ◼   ► storage that you could just put some music on it though like that's weird to

00:10:17 ◼   ► me like but I mean how would you do it I guess I guess from Bluetooth from your

00:10:21 ◼   ► phone yeah like how you could download tracks on like to your phone and Spotify

00:10:25 ◼   ► you know yeah so you can listen to some offline hmm just interesting to me that

00:10:31 ◼   ► It's just a big remote control.

00:10:33 ◼   ► I just find that kind of weird.

00:10:35 ◼   ► - Maybe there'll be like a car thing,

00:10:37 ◼   ► which I think is a great name.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Like I like so much about this product.

00:10:41 ◼   ► Maybe there's like a car thing pro in the future

00:10:43 ◼   ► that's 200 bucks that does give you some of that.

00:10:46 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, maybe.

00:10:47 ◼   ► I don't know.

00:10:48 ◼   ► - Anyways, I think it's interesting

00:10:49 ◼   ► and if you're into Spotify

00:10:51 ◼   ► and you have a Spotify premium account

00:10:53 ◼   ► and your car is sort of in this middle ground,

00:10:56 ◼   ► then this could be for you.

00:11:01 ◼   ► I think it's a good idea. I think it's fun. I think it also wouldn't be necessary if more

00:11:07 ◼   ► phones had an automatic sort of... I mean the cars switched the UI to be a car-friendly UI mode.

00:11:16 ◼   ► I think Android does, the iPhone doesn't. I think it would be smart if Apple had...

00:11:23 ◼   ► It wouldn't have to be a huge thing, but maybe if you have a media app,

00:11:29 ◼   ► you could maybe automatically detect if I'm driving and maybe make the UI bigger and more

00:11:35 ◼   ► comfortable to use. My car doesn't have CarPlay, my car doesn't have any sort of fancy...

00:11:44 ◼   ► It's got the basic Bluetooth integration with smartphones. It doesn't even display

00:11:50 ◼   ► media artwork, for example. It's a very old Bluetooth standard, and I would happily just

00:11:58 ◼   ► use my iPhone in landscape mode with my MagSafe Belkin car mount instead. But the problem

00:12:05 ◼   ► is when I'm driving, I want, I would like those controls on the iPhone to be bigger,

00:12:11 ◼   ► to be much larger. Now I could manually change in accessibility settings, you know, some

00:12:20 ◼   ► elements to make them bigger and more, you know, high contrast, for example, only when

00:12:25 ◼   ► when I'm driving, but that seems a little too involved.

00:12:29 ◼   ► And I think the last time I tried,

00:12:30 ◼   ► I wasn't able to get exactly what I wanted

00:12:33 ◼   ► done with shortcuts as an automation.

00:12:35 ◼   ► I think honestly, the iPhone is capable of detecting

00:12:40 ◼   ► when you're driving, when you're in a car.

00:12:42 ◼   ► That should be a built-in thing, right?

00:12:45 ◼   ► Instead of Apple, it's like, no, just use CarPlay,

00:12:47 ◼   ► but not everybody has CarPlay, so yeah.

00:12:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, Apple's idea is, oh, you're driving in the car,

00:12:53 ◼   ► we're gonna turn your screen black

00:12:55 ◼   ► because it's focus mode now.

00:12:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, and Spotify does it.

00:13:00 ◼   ► Spotify, like the Spotify app on the iPhone,

00:13:03 ◼   ► has a car mode.

00:13:05 ◼   ► And when I was using Spotify last year,

00:13:07 ◼   ► that was one of the things that I liked about it,

00:13:09 ◼   ► that when it detects a Bluetooth connection to a car unit,

00:13:14 ◼   ► it switches to a bigger, simplified,

00:13:17 ◼   ► keep your eyes on the road sort of UI mode.

00:13:21 ◼   ► That's a clever idea, I think.

00:13:23 ◼   ► And maybe, you know, I could see that sort of thing

00:13:26 ◼   ► be an API for at least media apps, right?

00:13:30 ◼   ► Because that's what you use usually when you're in the car.

00:13:33 ◼   ► You're either checking out directions

00:13:35 ◼   ► or you're controlling audio playback.

00:13:37 ◼   ► So I'm surprised that Apple has done nothing on this front.

00:13:42 ◼   ► - I guess why can't my phone just go,

00:13:45 ◼   ► just show, just be CarPlay in the car?

00:13:48 ◼   ► Like why can't it do that? - Or that.

00:13:50 ◼   ► Or that.

00:13:52 ◼   ► That's a much simpler approach.

00:13:54 ◼   ► Turn the iPhone, turn my home screen, enter CarPlay mode.

00:13:59 ◼   ► The apps that I have on my phone automatically show up

00:14:05 ◼   ► on the CarPlay home screen because I have them installed.

00:14:07 ◼   ► I don't need to log in again, I don't need to do anything.

00:14:10 ◼   ► And of course those iPhone apps

00:14:13 ◼   ► already have the CarPlay components built in.

00:14:16 ◼   ► So yeah, why doesn't the iPhone turn into a CarPlay,

00:14:20 ◼   ► like a virtual carplay unit when I'm in the car.

00:14:23 ◼   ► - And correct me if I'm wrong,

00:14:24 ◼   ► isn't all of the processing happening on the phone anyway?

00:14:27 ◼   ► - It is, yes.

00:14:29 ◼   ► - So there's no reason that they can't do this then, really.

00:14:34 ◼   ► It's just whatever they want to.

00:14:35 ◼   ► - They don't want to, yeah.

00:14:38 ◼   ► - Well.

00:14:39 ◼   ► - I don't know why.

00:14:41 ◼   ► - Get it to people. - It's a bummer.

00:14:43 ◼   ► My favorite thing sort of in like car audio world right now

00:14:47 ◼   ► is a lot of head units that you can get

00:14:51 ◼   ► that's like to retrofit CarPlay into a vehicle.

00:14:54 ◼   ► Or maybe you don't replace the head unit that you have,

00:14:58 ◼   ► but you wanna add something to it.

00:15:00 ◼   ► A lot of these are like cheap Android tablets

00:15:04 ◼   ► that have enough sort of like internals to them

00:15:09 ◼   ► where they fake being a CarPlay receiver.

00:15:13 ◼   ► So you're like sending CarPlay

00:15:15 ◼   ► to an Android tablet in your car.

00:15:18 ◼   ► And something about that really makes me think

00:15:20 ◼   ► that someone at Apple hates it.

00:15:21 ◼   ► And that kind of makes me laugh.

00:15:22 ◼   ► - That is funny.

00:15:24 ◼   ► - This episode of Connected is brought to you by Squarespace.

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00:17:18 ◼   ► Our thanks to Squarespace for supporting Connected and all of Relay FM.

00:17:23 ◼   ► The iPod Touch has now gone 1000 days without an update. Thank you to MacRumors for pointing

00:17:31 ◼   ► this out a couple of days ago. The iPod Touch features a 4 inch Retina display, Touch ID

00:17:36 ◼   ► home button, headphone jack, a 1.2 megapixel camera. Nice, that's a good one.

00:17:42 ◼   ► It's the best one, it's vintage. An A10 fusion chip. What are we up to now?

00:17:48 ◼   ► A20 or something. No, A15 I think. 32 gigabytes of RAM is the starting storage.

00:17:56 ◼   ► Of storage, not RAM. 32 gigabytes of RAM, 17 terabytes of storage.

00:18:05 ◼   ► 32 gigabytes of storage starting at $199.

00:18:10 ◼   ► That's the company, you can still buy it.

00:18:13 ◼   ► You can go ahead and buy it.

00:18:14 ◼   ► I was looking at this story

00:18:17 ◼   ► and something popped into my head.

00:18:19 ◼   ► I want to see what you two think about it.

00:18:20 ◼   ► Do you think Apple would do for the iPod Touch

00:18:23 ◼   ► what it did for the iPad mini?

00:18:25 ◼   ► - Hmm, that's a fun thing to imagine

00:18:32 ◼   ► because like with the iPad mini,

00:18:35 ◼   ► they didn't fundamentally change the reason

00:18:40 ◼   ► why the iPad mini exists, right?

00:18:43 ◼   ► Which is it's a small iPad.

00:18:46 ◼   ► It does everything an iPad can do,

00:18:48 ◼   ► I guess minus the magic keyboard maybe,

00:18:52 ◼   ► but you can use the pencil and it's got the new design.

00:18:54 ◼   ► It doesn't have Face ID,

00:18:55 ◼   ► but it's got this new generation of Touch ID.

00:18:58 ◼   ► It's an iPad.

00:18:58 ◼   ► It runs iPadOS, but it's super compact,

00:19:02 ◼   ► and it's using relatively new technology.

00:19:05 ◼   ► With the iPod Touch, I guess there's a different problem,

00:19:09 ◼   ► because with the iPad Mini,

00:19:10 ◼   ► we knew that there was still value

00:19:13 ◼   ► in the underlying nature of the product.

00:19:17 ◼   ► With the iPod Touch, I wonder if there's still value

00:19:22 ◼   ► in the original idea behind the iPod Touch,

00:19:25 ◼   ► which is it's sort of like an iPhone,

00:19:28 ◼   ► like, but without the fun part, and it's a device.

00:19:33 ◼   ► It was originally pitched for music and video games.

00:19:36 ◼   ► But now that we have Apple Music

00:19:38 ◼   ► and Apple Arcade everywhere,

00:19:41 ◼   ► I think the problem that we gotta look for

00:19:43 ◼   ► is at the very core of the iPod Touch.

00:19:46 ◼   ► Like, does it still make sense for the iPod Touch

00:19:49 ◼   ► to exist in this, like, in its original idea?

00:19:54 ◼   ► Because the iPod Mini, the answer is,

00:19:56 ◼   ► "Yeah, I do want to have a very small iPad that does everything an iPad can do."

00:20:03 ◼   ► But with the iPod touch, can you answer the same question with a yes?

00:20:07 ◼   ► I don't think so. So I think a few things would have to change.

00:20:12 ◼   ► Right?

00:20:14 ◼   ► Well, I mean, I genuinely don't think that the product has any clear...

00:20:20 ◼   ► Because it's like, what's the market fit, if you will?

00:20:26 ◼   ► Like, why would I need an iPod Touch?

00:20:30 ◼   ► If I'm an Apple customer, and Apple loves when you,

00:20:34 ◼   ► as a customer, buy all of the products that they make,

00:20:37 ◼   ► because they believe that there's a place for everything

00:20:40 ◼   ► in the Apple ecosystem in your life.

00:20:43 ◼   ► There's a place for an iPad, for a Mac, and for an iPhone,

00:20:45 ◼   ► AirPods, Apple TV, and Beats, and an Apple Watch.

00:20:49 ◼   ► They love it when you buy everything.

00:20:51 ◼   ► But in this case, if I were to ask myself the question,

00:20:54 ◼   ► "Why would I need an iPod Touch?"

00:20:55 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:20:57 ◼   ► - Why would I, right?

00:20:58 ◼   ► Why would I need an iPod Touch in its current form?

00:21:00 ◼   ► - Like, if they did do a Face ID-enabled,

00:21:05 ◼   ► full-screen iPod Touch with a new camera

00:21:08 ◼   ► and a new processor, like, who is it for?

00:21:12 ◼   ► - Exactly, like, let's entertain this idea

00:21:16 ◼   ► that they update the iPod Touch.

00:21:18 ◼   ► They don't fundamentally change the product.

00:21:20 ◼   ► they give it more storage, new screen, maybe Face ID, no cellular connectivity at all.

00:21:28 ◼   ► Or a Touch ID power button probably.

00:21:30 ◼   ► Or a Touch ID power button.

00:21:32 ◼   ► But it's still that. It's still like a watered down version of an iPhone.

00:21:38 ◼   ► Would it still make sense?

00:21:40 ◼   ► And honestly, I don't think it would, even with updated specs.

00:21:46 ◼   ► I don't see...

00:21:47 ◼   ► I reckon it's probably worth me interrupting you here to go to the daddy of the group.

00:21:52 ◼   ► Hey daddy.

00:21:54 ◼   ► Hey.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Because Kate's already mentioned it and I know that people are already opening their

00:21:59 ◼   ► Twitter apps to say, "What about kids? What about the kids? Do you have those?"

00:22:03 ◼   ► Think about the kids.

00:22:05 ◼   ► "Won't somebody please think of the children?"

00:22:07 ◼   ► So what do you think? Because I mean, I guess that's probably one of the reasons it has existed

00:22:15 ◼   ► or did exist for a while. What do you think about that?

00:22:18 ◼   ► Yeah, our oldest has an iPod touch and we opted for that over an iPad mainly for the size of it

00:22:28 ◼   ► and he's basically using it as like a music player that has iMessage to me and Mary.

00:22:37 ◼   ► It also has a headphone jack which is one reason we went for it. Not that you couldn't use,

00:22:44 ◼   ► I guess lightning or USB-C headphones but

00:22:47 ◼   ► I definitely didn't feel great about buying it

00:22:51 ◼   ► you know, I did not want to do an iPod

00:22:54 ◼   ► or an iPad mini for him

00:22:56 ◼   ► and really because of cost

00:22:59 ◼   ► but to me that's why the iPod Touch is still there

00:23:02 ◼   ► because it is, it's expensive for what it is

00:23:04 ◼   ► but it's a lot cheaper than the alternatives

00:23:06 ◼   ► OK

00:23:07 ◼   ► If it didn't exist

00:23:09 ◼   ► right?

00:23:10 ◼   ► What would you have done?

00:23:12 ◼   ► probably like a refurbished iPad mini?

00:23:16 ◼   ► - Or maybe like a used iPhone or something,

00:23:19 ◼   ► because the difference here, I think,

00:23:22 ◼   ► given that the iPhone has been around

00:23:23 ◼   ► for 15 years at this point,

00:23:27 ◼   ► I think it's much more common now

00:23:30 ◼   ► to have used iPhones that you can hand down to kids

00:23:35 ◼   ► than it was, say, 10 years ago,

00:23:37 ◼   ► when the iPod Touch was maybe a bigger deal.

00:23:40 ◼   ► But I think it's easier and it's more common than before

00:23:45 ◼   ► to have used Apple devices that maybe you don't wanna sell

00:23:48 ◼   ► or maybe you're like, you know what,

00:23:50 ◼   ► instead of selling this, I'm just gonna give it to my kid

00:23:52 ◼   ► and I'm upgrading to a new iPhone or a new iPad.

00:23:55 ◼   ► And that was not necessarily as common 10 years ago.

00:23:59 ◼   ► - So $200, right, that's what we're talking about.

00:24:03 ◼   ► It's like, I wonder what you could get realistically

00:24:05 ◼   ► for $200, but that's probably it, right?

00:24:07 ◼   ► Like, if you didn't get an iPad,

00:24:10 ◼   ► you would get them a used iPhone, you just don't have to put a SIM in it and then it's

00:24:13 ◼   ► exactly the same, right?

00:24:15 ◼   ► Yeah, yep.

00:24:16 ◼   ► Probably better though. I reckon you could get a better specced phone, used phone for

00:24:22 ◼   ► $200 than a new iPod touch.

00:24:25 ◼   ► Probably.

00:24:26 ◼   ► You know me, I had to come up with a fun thought experiment for the iPod touch.

00:24:30 ◼   ► Please.

00:24:31 ◼   ► I mean, what even is an, like, what is an iPod touch?

00:24:33 ◼   ► How big is the DAC on this thing? Just start of thing.

00:24:37 ◼   ► So hear me out. What if...

00:24:40 ◼   ► OK, let's start from the very basics.

00:24:43 ◼   ► We know that Apple likes money. They love money, right?

00:24:46 ◼   ► They are a big money-loving company, right?

00:24:49 ◼   ► They sure love the cash.

00:24:51 ◼   ► And what if they came up with a way to sell you an iPod Touch?

00:24:56 ◼   ► What if they went back to the very roots of the word iPod?

00:25:03 ◼   ► Right? What's an iPod?

00:25:04 ◼   ► It's the device for music.

00:25:06 ◼   ► "Okay, what would a device for music make from Apple? What would a modern iPod look like or do?"

00:25:15 ◼   ► Or, "What would it offer in terms of enjoying and listening to music compared to an iPhone or an iPad or a MacBook,

00:25:25 ◼   ► whatever it is you're using for music?"

00:25:27 ◼   ► So here's a fun few ideas that I sort of kicked around in our shared document here.

00:25:33 ◼   ► Tons of storage. Tons of storage for offline downloads from Apple Music or your own personal

00:25:41 ◼   ► offline music library. But imagine like 512 gigabytes as the starting storage and then,

00:25:47 ◼   ► you know, maybe like a one terabyte model, maybe even two terabytes. Is there even two

00:25:51 ◼   ► terabytes of music in Apple Music, the whole catalog? I don't know, maybe. I'm sure it's

00:25:56 ◼   ► over two terabytes, but like tons of storage. And that immediately asked me like, OK, that's

00:26:04 ◼   ► pretty neat to have a portable device that is made from Apple that runs iOS with a ton

00:26:11 ◼   ► of storage for music. That would be cool. But of course, storage is not exciting. Right.

00:26:17 ◼   ► So now we're gonna get into the weirder ideas.

00:26:22 ◼   ► "Ports!"

00:26:23 ◼   ► Exclamation point.

00:26:25 ◼   ► Like, that's how it's spelled in the notes.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Like, just that, "ports."

00:26:29 ◼   ► Like, imagine...

00:26:30 ◼   ► It's one of those slides, remember the slides where the text used to fall down and the,

00:26:35 ◼   ► like the smoke used to, you know, like when you do the keynotes?

00:26:38 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

00:26:39 ◼   ► "Po-" "Boom!"

00:26:40 ◼   ► And then that'd be it.

00:26:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:42 ◼   ► "Ports!" like that.

00:26:43 ◼   ► "Ports!"

00:26:44 ◼   ► Right?

00:26:45 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:46 ◼   ► I think it would be neat if the iPod Touch could slot right in your existing audio setup

00:26:54 ◼   ► at home, right?

00:26:56 ◼   ► Whether you have a home theater thing going on or you've got a bunch of speakers, you've

00:27:00 ◼   ► got an existing setup in your living room, or maybe you're part of that weird niche of

00:27:07 ◼   ► people with the listening room because you're an audiophile.

00:27:12 ◼   ► What if you could take that little player and use it with your existing setup?

00:27:17 ◼   ► So I would imagine that the very obvious ports would be the 3.5mm and the 6.35mm jacks that

00:27:27 ◼   ► are very common in those kinds of setups.

00:27:31 ◼   ► I could also see Apple do something like using the 4.4mm balanced audio output that is becoming

00:27:40 ◼   ► more common these days, but judging from the loves that I hear...

00:27:44 ◼   ► And I just double checked, you said you could see? Is that what you said, or couldn't see?

00:27:48 ◼   ► I could see.

00:27:49 ◼   ► You could?

00:27:50 ◼   ► I could. I mean, if we are entertaining the idea... This is all based on nothing, right?

00:27:56 ◼   ► This is just speculation. We are imagining things, right? If we were to imagine things...

00:28:04 ◼   ► I mean, some of us are.

00:28:05 ◼   ► Start from there, like don't question my intentions.

00:28:08 ◼   ► Just buy into the theory, okay?

00:28:12 ◼   ► - I'm back on board again, I'm back on board again.

00:28:17 ◼   ► I apologize for my incident.

00:28:19 ◼   ► - Right, okay.

00:28:20 ◼   ► So that's sports.

00:28:22 ◼   ► Obviously, this device, call it the new iPod touch

00:28:28 ◼   ► or the iPod Pro or the, just the iPod.

00:28:33 ◼   ► - iPod Pro. - Just iPod.

00:28:34 ◼   ► could you imagine a world?

00:28:36 ◼   ► - It would have, because Apple Music now has it,

00:28:39 ◼   ► it would have built-in lossless and high-res lossless output.

00:28:44 ◼   ► No odd limitations, as is the case with the existing iPhones

00:28:49 ◼   ► and the existing AirPods.

00:28:51 ◼   ► This thing has a new built-in DAC,

00:28:54 ◼   ► and it outputs lossless and high-res lossless,

00:28:57 ◼   ► doesn't care about it.

00:28:58 ◼   ► You know, it's got tons of storage,

00:29:00 ◼   ► it's got a big battery in it,

00:29:01 ◼   ► and it can output your 24-bit audio, just doesn't care.

00:29:05 ◼   ► From Apple Music, no problem.

00:29:08 ◼   ► Lastly, and this is a fun one,

00:29:11 ◼   ► what if the iPod, so what if this new iPod

00:29:14 ◼   ► had a brand new Equalizer app made by Apple?

00:29:19 ◼   ► What if Apple made Equalizer a system

00:29:23 ◼   ► like built-in app in this new iPod?

00:29:25 ◼   ► Equalizing is like, I never do it myself,

00:29:29 ◼   ► But I know that doing like tweaking like...

00:29:33 ◼   ► The thing that Myke likes to make fun of, like,

00:29:36 ◼   ► "Oh, I want to have a bit more mids.

00:29:38 ◼   ► I want to have a bit more bass."

00:29:39 ◼   ► - Highs and low mids with the full round bass tones.

00:29:44 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:29:45 ◼   ► So you got to understand that some people

00:29:49 ◼   ► like to do with audio, like to talk about audio,

00:29:52 ◼   ► the same way that like wine people tend to talk about wine.

00:29:57 ◼   ► I have noticed in myself, right, that I talk about the difference in keyboard

00:30:02 ◼   ► sounds. So I know I'm one of these people now just in a different area.

00:30:07 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:08 ◼   ► Each area has its own lingo and there's the lingo in audio, too.

00:30:11 ◼   ► And in audio, people like to equalize stuff.

00:30:14 ◼   ► And so if we are entertaining this imagination,

00:30:20 ◼   ► equalizer made by Apple would be cool.

00:30:24 ◼   ► Like, I could see a nice UI, you know, drag and drop to adjust the curves and the lines.

00:30:33 ◼   ► That would be fun. That would be fun.

00:30:36 ◼   ► So that's my pitch, right?

00:30:39 ◼   ► Hire him, Apple.

00:30:40 ◼   ► Hire me?

00:30:41 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:30:42 ◼   ► You know, I'm looking for a job as iPod product manager.

00:30:48 ◼   ► So...

00:30:49 ◼   ► As a job that has not been fulfilled at Apple in a long time.

00:30:53 ◼   ► I will product merge your iPod.

00:30:57 ◼   ► Look, look, I will make you thousands of dollars.

00:31:02 ◼   ► They take you to your desk and it's like covered in like trash and spider webs.

00:31:09 ◼   ► Like this is where the last guy sat in 2010.

00:31:14 ◼   ► And they still have faded pictures of their family on the phone.

00:31:18 ◼   ► Those kids are now in college.

00:31:21 ◼   ► I guarantee you, you will not be in Apple Park.

00:31:24 ◼   ► Like your desk is not in Apple Park.

00:31:26 ◼   ► It's in the basement of Infinite Loop.

00:31:28 ◼   ► That's where your desk is.

00:31:29 ◼   ► Yeah, or one of those like far off offices like in Santa Clara or something like, nobody

00:31:35 ◼   ► cares about those guys anymore.

00:31:38 ◼   ► You know, I just feel like sometimes, like, you know, I know that people listen to the

00:31:41 ◼   ► show and that like, you know, we hear it, right?

00:31:44 ◼   ► We hear from people every now and then that listen to the show and can grade the Ricky's,

00:31:48 ◼   ► right?

00:31:49 ◼   ► that they could grade the Ricky's before the event happens.

00:31:53 ◼   ► I cannot tell you how much joy it would give me

00:31:56 ◼   ► if there is somebody at Apple right now

00:31:58 ◼   ► who's like, "You wait two weeks,

00:32:00 ◼   ► "then we'll see who's laughing."

00:32:03 ◼   ► You know?

00:32:04 ◼   ► That they're getting ready to drop this incredible iPod Pro.

00:32:09 ◼   ► So you guys are chuckling, you think I'm,

00:32:12 ◼   ► I sit on the very top floor of Apple Park,

00:32:14 ◼   ► I got an office next to Tim's.

00:32:16 ◼   ► We've been working hard on this thing, you know?

00:32:19 ◼   ► If they bring back the iPod with a music angle,

00:32:24 ◼   ► I will get, and you can record me here,

00:32:29 ◼   ► you can save this clip.

00:32:30 ◼   ► We are literally recording you.

00:32:31 ◼   ► I will get, well, you know, I mean the people at large.

00:32:35 ◼   ► Because we need witnesses.

00:32:38 ◼   ► I will get an iPod-related tattoo.

00:32:42 ◼   ► If they bring back the iPod with a music angle

00:32:48 ◼   ► for people like me, I will get it.

00:32:51 ◼   ► And now, not saying the Apple logo or like,

00:32:54 ◼   ► and like something iPod related.

00:32:56 ◼   ► - I would say like a single line kind of iPod,

00:33:00 ◼   ► just like one of the classic iPods of a click wheel tattoo.

00:33:02 ◼   ► It would just look really good.

00:33:03 ◼   ► You should just like think about that anyway.

00:33:04 ◼   ► - That would look good.

00:33:05 ◼   ► - So that'd be like a good tattoo.

00:33:05 ◼   ► - That would look good.

00:33:06 ◼   ► Or maybe there's like the,

00:33:07 ◼   ► like the silhouettes of the people dancing

00:33:09 ◼   ► with the white earbuds.

00:33:10 ◼   ► Like I can also see that being nice.

00:33:14 ◼   ► - Right across your--

00:33:15 ◼   ► - I will get it done.

00:33:16 ◼   ► I will get it done.

00:33:17 ◼   ► So, I mean, how could you resist this?

00:33:22 ◼   ► Honestly, I don't understand why this product doesn't exist.

00:33:25 ◼   ► Like there's literally dozens of us out there

00:33:28 ◼   ► willing to buy this product.

00:33:30 ◼   ► - Take my money, as they say.

00:33:33 ◼   ► - This episode of Connected is made possible by Hover,

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00:35:16 ◼   ► I made a purchase that I want to share with you all.

00:35:19 ◼   ► I, uh, I've, I've been using an iPhone case for a while now.

00:35:23 ◼   ► Some people who may have listened to the show long enough may know that many,

00:35:26 ◼   ► many years ago I had a couple of incidents of broken phones and with the

00:35:31 ◼   ► Pro Max, it's just a big phone.

00:35:33 ◼   ► And I would like to have some additional protection.

00:35:36 ◼   ► So I've been using an Apple leather case, but then, uh, I've made an upgrade

00:35:41 ◼   ► I have a picture of it in the show notes for y'all that I've instructed you not to look at until now.

00:35:46 ◼   ► You can look at it now, and I would like your feedback.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:49 ◼   ► Okay.

00:35:51 ◼   ► Oh my god, no.

00:35:52 ◼   ► My word.

00:35:55 ◼   ► Okay, I'm opening the link.

00:35:56 ◼   ► Why?

00:35:56 ◼   ► Hold on.

00:35:57 ◼   ► Oh god.

00:35:59 ◼   ► Oh no, no, no, no.

00:36:02 ◼   ► No, no, no.

00:36:03 ◼   ► Oh!

00:36:05 ◼   ► This is bad.

00:36:06 ◼   ► This is the case of a deranged individual.

00:36:09 ◼   ► No, no.

00:36:11 ◼   ► - Why? - So for our audio listeners

00:36:14 ◼   ► who aren't in the Discord at the moment,

00:36:16 ◼   ► I don't know, what are you doing on Wednesdays?

00:36:17 ◼   ► - Opening this image has literally put a beach ball

00:36:22 ◼   ► on Safari for me.

00:36:23 ◼   ► Like I have to now force quit Safari

00:36:26 ◼   ► because of trying to load this image.

00:36:27 ◼   ► - Well, we're gonna talk about Safari in a future segment,

00:36:30 ◼   ► so a lot of that. - Nope, nope.

00:36:32 ◼   ► - This is a phone case made of the little Steven heads.

00:36:37 ◼   ► So if you're a member and you downloaded the new wallpapers,

00:36:39 ◼   ► there's wallpaper of this.

00:36:40 ◼   ► It looks like Myke's desk.

00:36:41 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, 'cause if you're me,

00:36:43 ◼   ► you just look down at the desk and you can also see it.

00:36:45 ◼   ► - Yeah, your life is an iPhone case.

00:36:48 ◼   ► It is kind of like holding a swarm of bees in your hand.

00:36:51 ◼   ► I guess kind of the feeling you get.

00:36:53 ◼   ► - It really bothers me.

00:36:54 ◼   ► Like it really visually bothers me.

00:36:57 ◼   ► It's like the whole thing, don't Google it, but it's that.

00:37:02 ◼   ► - Oh, trypophobia. - It gives me that.

00:37:03 ◼   ► No, don't say it, but yes.

00:37:05 ◼   ► - You should take a look at the new Samsung phone, man.

00:37:08 ◼   ► That's a good time.

00:37:09 ◼   ► (sighs)

00:37:11 ◼   ► - All right, so look, I have a question here.

00:37:14 ◼   ► Are you actually going to use this as your iPhone case?

00:37:17 ◼   ► - I mean, not if my wife has anything to do with it,

00:37:19 ◼   ► but I kinda like it.

00:37:20 ◼   ► - 'Cause I was gonna say, how do you feel about the,

00:37:23 ◼   ► what's the word that I'm looking for here?

00:37:28 ◼   ► Not arrogance, when someone thinks a lot of themselves.

00:37:34 ◼   ► What is the word that I'm looking for?

00:37:38 ◼   ► Narcissism, thank you Kim.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Yes.

00:37:40 ◼   ► Oh, the vanity, thank you robot emoji.

00:37:43 ◼   ► Well, what is it though?

00:37:45 ◼   ► Oh, the two words.

00:37:45 ◼   ► Both of those words.

00:37:47 ◼   ► Like it's narcissistic, it's vain

00:37:49 ◼   ► to have a phone case of just your own face,

00:37:52 ◼   ► like a cartoon of your own face over and over and over

00:37:54 ◼   ► and over and over again, you know?

00:37:56 ◼   ► Well, you know, if someone asked about it.

00:37:57 ◼   ► I'm not saying that, someone could say that.

00:38:00 ◼   ► I don't say that.

00:38:00 ◼   ► It's like people who get their initials stitched

00:38:04 ◼   ► on like jackets and ties.

00:38:06 ◼   ► No, that's cool because--

00:38:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, is it?

00:38:08 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, there's something cool about that.

00:38:10 ◼   ► That's classy.

00:38:11 ◼   ► Maybe this is just like modern classy.

00:38:14 ◼   ► Maybe it's me who's out of touch, you know?

00:38:17 ◼   ► - Zansen says you should have gotten Myke's face.

00:38:20 ◼   ► - See, this is the thing I feel like

00:38:21 ◼   ► is what you should have done because--

00:38:24 ◼   ► - Or us together. - Take it from me.

00:38:25 ◼   ► Take it from me, all that.

00:38:26 ◼   ► Yeah, take it from me.

00:38:27 ◼   ► It's good to have somebody else's face

00:38:29 ◼   ► all over your desk all the time,

00:38:30 ◼   ► constantly, forever, and again.

00:38:32 ◼   ► - I've got a Cal-Axe covered in your face.

00:38:34 ◼   ► - Yeah, but you don't care about Cal-Axes.

00:38:36 ◼   ► You probably threw that thing in the trash.

00:38:38 ◼   ► You burned it or something.

00:38:39 ◼   ► - Right here, right there, right through the doorway.

00:38:42 ◼   ► - So what is the deal here?

00:38:43 ◼   ► Casetify, what you can make your own cases of them?

00:38:47 ◼   ► - Yeah, so Kathy Campbell sent me this.

00:38:50 ◼   ► You can basically upload your own artwork

00:38:53 ◼   ► and then they put it on a, they could do it on anything.

00:38:55 ◼   ► They have a bunch of products.

00:38:57 ◼   ► And this is a MagSafe capable case.

00:39:00 ◼   ► The wallet doesn't really stick to the back of it,

00:39:02 ◼   ► but it will charge and line up on a MagSafe puck.

00:39:05 ◼   ► and it seems to charge fine.

00:39:06 ◼   ► This is a bulkier case than I would want to use day to day,

00:39:10 ◼   ► but I thought it was too funny to pass up.

00:39:14 ◼   ► Maybe this will be my special occasions iPhone case.

00:39:17 ◼   ► - How special could those occasions be?

00:39:20 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:39:21 ◼   ► - So it's supposed to go to like a formal

00:39:23 ◼   ► like gala fundraiser thing this weekend.

00:39:28 ◼   ► - Oh!

00:39:30 ◼   ► - Maybe I could take it there.

00:39:31 ◼   ► - Look at you, wow.

00:39:35 ◼   ► What is this?

00:39:36 ◼   ► Is it a gala for network closets?

00:39:39 ◼   ► Are you raising money for your internet connection today or what?

00:39:43 ◼   ► Hey!

00:39:44 ◼   ► So, listeners to the show won't notice this

00:39:48 ◼   ► because I would have done such a fantastic job of cleaning it up.

00:39:51 ◼   ► But after we spoke about Steven's internet issues,

00:39:54 ◼   ► we have then consistently just lost Steven

00:39:57 ◼   ► for massive chunks of the show today.

00:39:59 ◼   ► So I can only imagine that he has people raising money for him now.

00:40:04 ◼   ► The power's fine. Comcast is just having a real day over here today.

00:40:07 ◼   ► That's fair enough.

00:40:08 ◼   ► But yeah, you can make your own case.

00:40:10 ◼   ► You can upload your own artwork. Took a couple weeks.

00:40:12 ◼   ► Boy did you.

00:40:13 ◼   ► And boy did I.

00:40:15 ◼   ► You made as much of your own case as anybody could make.

00:40:18 ◼   ► It's just your face.

00:40:20 ◼   ► I think they make like laptop skins and stuff, but I mean that would just be ridiculous.

00:40:24 ◼   ► Oh, that would be.

00:40:25 ◼   ► So I'm gonna call Casetify cowards until they make this an offering.

00:40:32 ◼   ► Like, this is just-

00:40:33 ◼   ► - Like a permanent.

00:40:34 ◼   ► - That your face is just, you know.

00:40:36 ◼   ► You have to sign your likeness away to them,

00:40:37 ◼   ► which is a whole other thing, but you'll be fine with that.

00:40:40 ◼   ► Don't be cowards, Casetify, sell Steven.

00:40:44 ◼   ► - Yeah, I mean, Casetify, if you wanna do

00:40:46 ◼   ► some sort of brand partnership, hit me up.

00:40:48 ◼   ► - They've done it with SpongeBob,

00:40:49 ◼   ► so surely they should do it for you.

00:40:51 ◼   ► - Yeah, I'm basically on the same level as SpongeBob.

00:40:53 ◼   ► - You are the SpongeBob of tech podcasting.

00:40:57 ◼   ► - I don't know what that means.

00:40:59 ◼   ► - I don't either. - I don't like it.

00:41:00 ◼   ► - I don't know what it means.

00:41:02 ◼   ► - It's one of those things, like,

00:41:03 ◼   ► I just want people to bring their own feeling to that,

00:41:06 ◼   ► like what that means, you know?

00:41:07 ◼   ► - You know the ultimate version of this?

00:41:10 ◼   ► You know, people who buy fancy cars

00:41:11 ◼   ► sometimes have those cars wrapped?

00:41:13 ◼   ► - Yes.

00:41:14 ◼   ► - Protect it and change the color?

00:41:16 ◼   ► What if we did a full car in this artwork?

00:41:18 ◼   ► - It'd be incredible.

00:41:20 ◼   ► Whoever wants to donate their car to this, let us know.

00:41:25 ◼   ► Email Stephen.

00:41:26 ◼   ► - If someone donates a car, I will wrap it with this,

00:41:30 ◼   ► like, for the podcast-a-thon this fall.

00:41:33 ◼   ► You have my solemn word.

00:41:34 ◼   ► - Wow, okay. - We just need a car.

00:41:36 ◼   ► - A car.

00:41:37 ◼   ► - That's assuming there's going to be a fall 2022.

00:41:40 ◼   ► - Whoa, hang on a second.

00:41:41 ◼   ► Hold on a minute. - Wait, you know, I mean.

00:41:42 ◼   ► - Wait, wait, wait, no, I just thought we could go back here.

00:41:45 ◼   ► We could take a couple of steps back here.

00:41:48 ◼   ► So Stephen said he will wrap a car for the podcast-a-thon.

00:41:53 ◼   ► Stephen owns a car.

00:41:56 ◼   ► - Well, I mean, it's not fun if it's my car.

00:41:58 ◼   ► - Is that a pay car? - Fundraising goal, everyone!

00:42:00 ◼   ► All we have to do is reach an amount of money yet to be defined and Steven will wrap his

00:42:04 ◼   ► car in an image of his own face.

00:42:06 ◼   ► Jill, I know you're out there, Jill.

00:42:08 ◼   ► I do not approve.

00:42:10 ◼   ► We can do this.

00:42:11 ◼   ► This is the thing we can do.

00:42:13 ◼   ► We can do this.

00:42:14 ◼   ► Together we have the power.

00:42:15 ◼   ► Can we call it the daddy car?

00:42:17 ◼   ► Yup.

00:42:18 ◼   ► Please?

00:42:19 ◼   ► We sure can.

00:42:20 ◼   ► The daddy mobile.

00:42:21 ◼   ► So someone donates a van.

00:42:23 ◼   ► We could wrap it.

00:42:28 ◼   ► This is totally unrelated, but you know something that bothers me? That I've been paying attention

00:42:36 ◼   ► in my life to people who do it. It's the people who, during conversation, they do this thing

00:42:44 ◼   ► where they say, as I like to say, and then like you would expect like some original piece

00:42:51 ◼   ► of wisdom, right, from them, but then they just say a very common expression.

00:42:55 ◼   ► Okay.

00:42:56 ◼   ► Well, as I like to say...

00:42:58 ◼   ► What made you think of this? What just happened that brought this to your brain?

00:43:01 ◼   ► I don't know. You said something and my brain thought of you and your dislike for platitudes,

00:43:08 ◼   ► and then I realized that I really wanted to say this on the show, and so I said it. People

00:43:12 ◼   ► who liked to act all fancy, so as I like to say, you're like, "Yes, what do you like to

00:43:18 ◼   ► say and then they have just a common expression that you've heard hundreds of times some people

00:43:23 ◼   ► do that or people that come up with a thing and then just keep referencing it and then like you

00:43:28 ◼   ► say it enough that then it seems like everyone agrees about this you know like you know as as we

00:43:34 ◼   ► all know this thing i made up i have a very particular example of this that i will share

00:43:41 ◼   ► with you later on i'm gonna say it right now but when i say it you'll go yeah i know what you're

00:43:47 ◼   ► talking about and everybody else listening out there make up your own mind you know so

00:43:52 ◼   ► you're tell us soon but not yet soon but not yet yes but anyway back to the daddy mobile no

00:43:58 ◼   ► i'm sure we could find some kind of upholstery company to like make seat covers you know that

00:44:08 ◼   ► you're gonna want seat covers just see that's also your face you know so like it's just the

00:44:12 ◼   ► the whole thing. Anyway let's bring this this show crashing down to earth and

00:44:16 ◼   ► talk about browser market share. Perfect. For some reason someone put this in the

00:44:22 ◼   ► document so. I just want to talk about Safari.

00:44:25 ◼   ► This is market share? You want to talk about Opera next?

00:44:29 ◼   ► It's 2012 and we're gonna talk about browser market share.

00:44:34 ◼   ► I use Vivaldi because I'm fancy. Okay. Alright.

00:44:39 ◼   ► Come on then. What you gotta say? There's this report by web analytics company

00:44:47 ◼   ► Stats Counter. I think they count stats over there.

00:44:50 ◼   ► You would like to think so. I mean, hopefully.

00:44:53 ◼   ► Trying the name. They'll probably drive around a van covered in graphs.

00:44:58 ◼   ► The stats van. If we've learned anything about today.

00:45:00 ◼   ► Stats van. So they say that Microsoft Edge is set to

00:45:06 ◼   ► to take over Safari as the world's second most popular

00:45:09 ◼   ► desktop browser.

00:45:10 ◼   ► I have some numbers for you.

00:45:11 ◼   ► - Please.

00:45:13 ◼   ► - Microsoft Edge is 9.54%, desktop usage worldwide.

00:45:17 ◼   ► Safari is 9.84%.

00:45:21 ◼   ► Google Chrome, of course, still 65%.

00:45:25 ◼   ► Mozilla, Firefox, just over 9%.

00:45:28 ◼   ► So it's, they're in there.

00:45:30 ◼   ► Are you yawning?

00:45:31 ◼   ► Stop yawning.

00:45:32 ◼   ► - No, I'm laughing at like the difference, you know?

00:45:34 ◼   ► like Microsoft and Safari are fighting it out for 10%,

00:45:39 ◼   ► Google is like 65%.

00:45:42 ◼   ► - Uh-huh.

00:45:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:45:43 ◼   ► - Yeah, it's a bit of a gap.

00:45:46 ◼   ► Obviously a lot of Mac users are using Safari,

00:45:50 ◼   ► but not all of them, there's a gap there.

00:45:52 ◼   ► - No, I would assume most use Chrome.

00:45:54 ◼   ► - I think most of the sorts of users that we know use Chrome,

00:45:59 ◼   ► but I think a lot of people just use what's built in.

00:46:01 ◼   ► - No, I think that's the exact opposite.

00:46:04 ◼   ► - You think so?

00:46:05 ◼   ► - I think most people we know are likely to use Safari.

00:46:08 ◼   ► I think more regular users who have a Mac

00:46:11 ◼   ► 'cause they want a Mac, they use the web browser,

00:46:13 ◼   ► which is Chrome.

00:46:14 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:46:15 ◼   ► - Maybe.

00:46:16 ◼   ► - Yeah, okay.

00:46:16 ◼   ► - In our circle of people, it's like a badge of shame

00:46:21 ◼   ► using Google Chrome, I think.

00:46:23 ◼   ► - As someone who has used Chrome on and off,

00:46:25 ◼   ► I feel that pain.

00:46:26 ◼   ► - Steven's a big Chrome boy.

00:46:28 ◼   ► - Not right now, I'm using Safari, but it's not gonna last.

00:46:33 ◼   ► Of course on mobile it's different. Safari has 26%, actually it's not that different.

00:46:38 ◼   ► 26% mobile market share, Chrome has 62%.

00:46:43 ◼   ► This really surprised me. I mean obviously I know there's a lot of Android phones.

00:46:47 ◼   ► Yeah, Android's way bigger than iOS in the world. In our markets the iPhone is much bigger than it is worldwide.

00:46:55 ◼   ► I still would have expected more than 26% I think.

00:46:59 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess so.

00:47:01 ◼   ► That's a surprise to me.

00:47:02 ◼   ► What I thought about in reading this was twofold.

00:47:05 ◼   ► A, yes, it does feel like a story

00:47:06 ◼   ► we would have covered 15 years ago,

00:47:08 ◼   ► but also it's not going to do Safari any favors

00:47:13 ◼   ► in terms of the fragmentation we already see

00:47:17 ◼   ► where some websites and web apps just don't work in Safari

00:47:21 ◼   ► because they're targeting the Chromium engine,

00:47:25 ◼   ► which of course powers Chrome,

00:47:27 ◼   ► but also powers the new Microsoft Edge.

00:47:29 ◼   ► So if you're not familiar with this,

00:47:31 ◼   ► couple of years ago, they sort of ripped out their own,

00:47:35 ◼   ► their own renderer and put in the

00:47:41 ◼   ► render engine from Chrome inside of Edge.

00:47:44 ◼   ► There's been two Edges. There was old Edge and new Edge.

00:47:47 ◼   ► And old Edge was basically Internet Explorer rebranded.

00:47:50 ◼   ► Right. And new Edge. New Edge, which is good.

00:47:54 ◼   ► It's like a very good web browser.

00:47:56 ◼   ► New Edge.

00:47:57 ◼   ► It is. And they do, and they do a lot of cool,

00:47:59 ◼   ► like Microsoft-y stuff on top of it.

00:48:00 ◼   ► I think a lot of the features are pretty cool.

00:48:02 ◼   ► But it's, the story of this doesn't work well in Safari

00:48:07 ◼   ► is only going to continue to get worse.

00:48:11 ◼   ► And I don't know what Apple can really do about that

00:48:16 ◼   ► because you just can't make people care

00:48:19 ◼   ► if you have nine or 10 or 16, whatever the number is

00:48:23 ◼   ► where you are, percent market share.

00:48:26 ◼   ► And it's not really, it's not really gonna go anywhere.

00:48:30 ◼   ► it's gonna take a lot to unseat Chrome.

00:48:32 ◼   ► It took more than a decade to unseat Internet Explorer.

00:48:37 ◼   ► And Apple in part was involved with that

00:48:40 ◼   ► because before the split between Blink,

00:48:44 ◼   ► which I think is like the new name for the Chromium engine,

00:48:46 ◼   ► that and WebKit, it was all the same.

00:48:50 ◼   ► And now they're slowly diverging.

00:48:53 ◼   ► And especially in areas around media playback

00:48:57 ◼   ► and things like, you know,

00:49:00 ◼   ► we see a lot just in our corner of the internet with like podcast services,

00:49:04 ◼   ► like, Oh, I can record in the browser.

00:49:05 ◼   ► Like a bunch of that stuff just doesn't work in Safari because Safari doesn't

00:49:08 ◼   ► adopt the same media codex and support that Google's willing

00:49:13 ◼   ► to. And I just,

00:49:15 ◼   ► I don't see how Apple like begins to counter that.

00:49:20 ◼   ► They can't.

00:49:21 ◼   ► They,

00:49:22 ◼   ► I think it's Apple's responsibility to try their best to make things that work

00:49:27 ◼   ► on Chrome work in Safari.

00:49:28 ◼   ► You can't counter it with 10% and you're not going to turn that tide.

00:49:33 ◼   ► So if Apple genuinely believes in Safari and its security, they need to make it a better

00:49:42 ◼   ► experience starting with being completely compatible with everything Chrome is.

00:49:47 ◼   ► Outside of that, like they're kind of, you know, look, there's a reason that Chrome extensions

00:49:52 ◼   ► now work with Safari because no one's made it Safari extensions.

00:49:55 ◼   ► - Well, even then, like you say that,

00:49:57 ◼   ► but they still have to run through Xcode in the app store.

00:50:00 ◼   ► Like Apple still has put, yeah, still put

00:50:04 ◼   ► gatekeeper-y type stuff.

00:50:08 ◼   ► And I get it, and I'm sure there are a lot of Chrome

00:50:11 ◼   ► exchanges that are capable of bad things,

00:50:13 ◼   ► and Apple doesn't want that.

00:50:14 ◼   ► I mean, look, if something could see

00:50:15 ◼   ► your entire browser history, like that is a security angle.

00:50:19 ◼   ► But Apple hasn't really like fully embraced

00:50:23 ◼   ► some of the stuff that Chrome has brought.

00:50:26 ◼   ► I mean, I would even argue that the interface

00:50:29 ◼   ► for extension Safari is like,

00:50:31 ◼   ► it like punishes people who want to use a lot of extensions.

00:50:33 ◼   ► Like I think it's really bad looking

00:50:35 ◼   ► and annoying to manage.

00:50:36 ◼   ► - Safari for me right now, we're on a different tangent now.

00:50:39 ◼   ► Safari for me right now is the most unreliable

00:50:41 ◼   ► piece of software on my Mac.

00:50:43 ◼   ► Like I, well, I was referencing earlier

00:50:46 ◼   ► about the beach balling when I opened the link.

00:50:48 ◼   ► That happens to me like two or three times a day.

00:50:50 ◼   ► And the only way out of it

00:50:51 ◼   ► is to completely force quit Safari.

00:50:54 ◼   ► And I think it is related to tab group syncing.

00:50:58 ◼   ► I use tab groups a lot.

00:50:59 ◼   ► I've said this before.

00:51:00 ◼   ► It's still happening that I'm doing something in a web page,

00:51:05 ◼   ► and it just reloads to a previous point in the day

00:51:08 ◼   ► and then opens up a bunch of tabs that

00:51:10 ◼   ► had otherwise been closed.

00:51:12 ◼   ► Or I go to--

00:51:14 ◼   ► I pick up my iPhone.

00:51:15 ◼   ► I do something on my iPhone.

00:51:16 ◼   ► I go to my Mac, and the tabs just aren't correct.

00:51:18 ◼   ► and it will maybe load at some point in the next two hours,

00:51:21 ◼   ► usually when I'm doing something

00:51:23 ◼   ► where I don't want it to do that.

00:51:24 ◼   ► Or like I just open a link and Safari Beach Balls.

00:51:27 ◼   ► This happens to me all the time.

00:51:29 ◼   ► And it's like, you know, I really like the feature

00:51:32 ◼   ► and when it works, it's great.

00:51:34 ◼   ► But when it doesn't, which is quite a bit,

00:51:37 ◼   ► it's really annoying.

00:51:39 ◼   ► And it's like this, you know, like, I don't know.

00:51:42 ◼   ► It's just like, this is just one of those things

00:51:44 ◼   ► where I'm like brought back to like,

00:51:45 ◼   ► oh, is Apple good at web services?

00:51:47 ◼   ► 'cause this is an iCloud syncing problem

00:51:49 ◼   ► is what's going on here, right?

00:51:51 ◼   ► And I just like, I thought we were over that as a problem.

00:51:54 ◼   ► So that's just my aside complaint about Safari

00:51:58 ◼   ► 'cause we're talking about Safari.

00:52:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, well, and the reason that I kind of went back to it

00:52:03 ◼   ► on the Mac is that I like having history sync

00:52:08 ◼   ► and like tab sync between my iPhone, iPad, and Mac.

00:52:12 ◼   ► But the reality is that's been broken for me

00:52:16 ◼   ► really sends Monterey.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Like my, like sometimes the iCloud tabs are up to date.

00:52:21 ◼   ► Like right now they're, I think pretty close.

00:52:25 ◼   ► But I very often had times where like the history

00:52:28 ◼   ► isn't syncing between the devices.

00:52:32 ◼   ► It's like well then what's the point of using

00:52:34 ◼   ► what feels like a inferior browser on the Mac

00:52:39 ◼   ► with features that don't really line up

00:52:41 ◼   ► with how I want to use my Mac in like,

00:52:46 ◼   ► like why? And that's sort of the problem in my mind, like one of the problems with Safari

00:52:53 ◼   ► is that it is so tied to iCloud. When iCloud stuff is working, those features are really

00:52:58 ◼   ► nice. But when they don't, it like damages the reputation of Safari in your mind. And

00:53:05 ◼   ► that's just that's like Apple's mo right now is like every thing on your devices is going

00:53:10 ◼   ► to talk to iCloud in some way. And most of the time that's great. But when it's not,

00:53:13 ◼   ► it hurts that product's reputation.

00:53:16 ◼   ► And I think people kind of look at Safari as,

00:53:19 ◼   ► you know, it's not as compatible,

00:53:23 ◼   ► it's not as, you know,

00:53:25 ◼   ► not as like fully featured in some ways that Chrome is

00:53:30 ◼   ► and sort of write it off.

00:53:32 ◼   ► I mean, clearly the numbers say that,

00:53:33 ◼   ► that if whatever the Mac market share is,

00:53:36 ◼   ► not everyone's using it,

00:53:37 ◼   ► and there are good reasons for that.

00:53:42 ◼   ► Federico, I would like your opinions on Edge.

00:53:44 ◼   ► - It's not a bad browser.

00:53:47 ◼   ► I kind of like it.

00:53:50 ◼   ► Now that I'm playing around with Windows for gaming stuff.

00:53:54 ◼   ► And you gotta use the Edge, right?

00:53:56 ◼   ► It's pre-installed and you gotta download one password

00:53:59 ◼   ► and you need to sign into Steam and stuff like that.

00:54:03 ◼   ► I've used it a bunch.

00:54:05 ◼   ► I like it.

00:54:06 ◼   ► I like it better than Chrome.

00:54:08 ◼   ► I think it's better designed.

00:54:11 ◼   ► There are a few things that I want to call out that I like.

00:54:14 ◼   ► The first one, it's a feature that a ton of people either hate or love.

00:54:19 ◼   ► I'm in the love camp myself. Vertical tabs. Yes, I am.

00:54:24 ◼   ► Vertical tabs. You can use, optionally, a vertical mode for your tabs. And it's cool.

00:54:33 ◼   ► It's kind of like having an outline for your open tabs in Edge.

00:54:40 ◼   ► I kind of -- yeah, I like it.

00:54:42 ◼   ► I use it.

00:54:43 ◼   ► I like it.

00:54:44 ◼   ► The design of all, like, the settings and the iconography that they use, there's a ton

00:54:50 ◼   ► of settings.

00:54:52 ◼   ► It's kind of like iCab.

00:54:54 ◼   ► There's a ton to choose from in terms of customizing your behavior.

00:54:58 ◼   ► And those things that I don't like, like the Start page that has a news feed built in,

00:55:05 ◼   ► I dislike those things, because the websites that they promote in those sections are usually

00:55:11 ◼   ► kind of spammy blogs and whatnot.

00:55:16 ◼   ► But basically, Edge feels like, what if some of the most popular browser extensions were

00:55:23 ◼   ► built into the browser itself?

00:55:25 ◼   ► Microsoft has been doing some of that, so that's neat.

00:55:28 ◼   ► But you can turn it all off if you don't care.

00:55:31 ◼   ► And lastly, I like how you sign in

00:55:34 ◼   ► with your Microsoft account,

00:55:36 ◼   ► and you keep everything synced across devices,

00:55:39 ◼   ► including their own versions of tab groups

00:55:44 ◼   ► or bookmark folders, but basically edge as collections.

00:55:49 ◼   ► So you can create these collections of websites,

00:55:52 ◼   ► and you can sync them across devices.

00:55:54 ◼   ► So like what Apple has been doing with the tab groups,

00:55:57 ◼   ► it's like glorified bookmarks

00:56:00 ◼   ► or a way to group related tabs together.

00:56:04 ◼   ► So that's neat.

00:56:05 ◼   ► I like it, obviously, on iOS and iPadOS,

00:56:08 ◼   ► you can now set Edge as your default browser,

00:56:13 ◼   ► but you still give up some of the conveniences

00:56:16 ◼   ► that you have with Safari.

00:56:17 ◼   ► Most of all, you give up the whole shortcuts integration

00:56:22 ◼   ► in the share sheet.

00:56:24 ◼   ► That's one of the limitations on iOS and iPadOS.

00:56:27 ◼   ► When it comes to shortcuts,

00:56:29 ◼   ► even simple things like accessing the text selection

00:56:35 ◼   ► from a webpage only works with Safari on the iPhone and iPad

00:56:40 ◼   ► if you're a shortcuts user.

00:56:41 ◼   ► Because other browsers, they cannot expose the,

00:56:44 ◼   ► what's it called, the DOM of the webpage.

00:56:47 ◼   ► - It's kind of funny, really.

00:56:48 ◼   ► It's like, we're gonna make you use our rendering engine.

00:56:52 ◼   ► we're not giving you any access to it.

00:56:55 ◼   ► - Exactly, I don't really understand.

00:56:57 ◼   ► So you can not run JavaScript.

00:56:57 ◼   ► - I mean, that sounds like a pre-Apple move.

00:57:00 ◼   ► - Yeah, true. - Yes.

00:57:01 ◼   ► - True, true. - Yes.

00:57:02 ◼   ► But Edge is not terrible.

00:57:05 ◼   ► There is a lot of innovation happening.

00:57:09 ◼   ► I mean, I make fun of it,

00:57:11 ◼   ► but like between Vivaldi and Edge,

00:57:14 ◼   ► Opera is doing the, I believe the blockchain stuff,

00:57:17 ◼   ► which I find gross, so I don't wanna get into that.

00:57:21 ◼   ► What's the other one called...

00:57:22 ◼   ► - Vivaldi browser, never heard of this before.

00:57:25 ◼   ► - Really?

00:57:26 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Oh, it's pretty cool.

00:57:28 ◼   ► What Firefox, Firefox, Mozilla,

00:57:31 ◼   ► the Mozilla Foundation are doing some really cool things

00:57:33 ◼   ► with Firefox.

00:57:34 ◼   ► - Brave? - What's the other one?

00:57:37 ◼   ► Brave, yes.

00:57:38 ◼   ► - And they're sending there that one now,

00:57:40 ◼   ► I don't remember the name of it,

00:57:41 ◼   ► but there was a Adam Lusogor ad for it, right?

00:57:45 ◼   ► Which is where it basically, it's like Xbox streaming,

00:57:49 ◼   ► but for web browser.

00:57:50 ◼   ► - Oh yeah.

00:57:51 ◼   ► - You know what I'm talking about?

00:57:53 ◼   ► - No.

00:57:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, Amazon used to have a product like that too,

00:57:57 ◼   ► called Silk, I think.

00:57:58 ◼   ► Where it would basically render your webpage somewhere else

00:58:01 ◼   ► and then like load you a view of it.

00:58:03 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:58:04 ◼   ► - Maybe the Discord will tell us.

00:58:05 ◼   ► - There is also this one that I got into the beta recently,

00:58:09 ◼   ► Orion browser, that it's like what,

00:58:12 ◼   ► it's like Safari but simpler and faster.

00:58:18 ◼   ► Orion is WebKit based and Mac only, which is pretty cool.

00:58:22 ◼   ► - And there's that company called the Browser Company,

00:58:24 ◼   ► which like, they have an incredible amount of talent

00:58:29 ◼   ► working for them, but they have--

00:58:31 ◼   ► - And tons of hype around it.

00:58:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, but like they haven't shipped anything yet,

00:58:36 ◼   ► but like their team is just like an all star team

00:58:40 ◼   ► of designers and developers.

00:58:42 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:58:43 ◼   ► - They haven't done anything yet, which is fine.

00:58:45 ◼   ► And the website is thebrowser.company

00:58:48 ◼   ► It's just that

00:58:50 ◼   ► It's like having an iPhone case with your face on it

00:58:54 ◼   ► Who would do that?

00:58:55 ◼   ► No one's told me the name of this one that I was thinking about though

00:59:00 ◼   ► Mighty! That's it

00:59:03 ◼   ► Mighty

00:59:05 ◼   ► This is the one where it does all the rendering as Steven said and then you just see it

00:59:09 ◼   ► It's faster Google Chrome

00:59:11 ◼   ► Faster than Google Chrome

00:59:13 ◼   ► 10 times less memory.

00:59:15 ◼   ► That's the whole thing.

00:59:17 ◼   ► - Oh, so it's streaming Google Chrome?

00:59:20 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:59:21 ◼   ► - Huh.

00:59:22 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:59:24 ◼   ► I mean, these days I can play Halo Infinite

00:59:27 ◼   ► streaming from Xbox.

00:59:29 ◼   ► I bet you can just as easily and quickly open a webpage

00:59:33 ◼   ► and of course it's gonna,

00:59:37 ◼   ► not gonna have the memory footprint of Chrome.

00:59:39 ◼   ► This is actually genius.

00:59:41 ◼   ► - More tabs, less memory.

00:59:42 ◼   ► - No man, their hiring page is a Notion page.

00:59:46 ◼   ► Come on.

00:59:47 ◼   ► That's peak startup right there.

00:59:49 ◼   ► - You can stream it, that's why.

00:59:50 ◼   ► Because you can stream it,

00:59:51 ◼   ► and it's not gonna bring your computer to a halt.

00:59:54 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:59:56 ◼   ► - It's a demo.

00:59:56 ◼   ► The hiring page is a demo.

00:59:58 ◼   ► - I mean, really, isn't loading any webpage

01:00:01 ◼   ► just sort of streaming, if you think about it?

01:00:03 ◼   ► Like really, what is streaming, dude?

01:00:05 ◼   ► - Okay, well, we can get into the whole thing

01:00:08 ◼   ► of ownership and what does it,

01:00:11 ◼   ► Like if you're looking at a browser, like,

01:00:13 ◼   ► (laughing)

01:00:14 ◼   ► does it really matter?

01:00:16 ◼   ► You know, anyway.

01:00:17 ◼   ► - What Federico's saying is we need to decentralize the web.

01:00:20 ◼   ► - Mm.

01:00:20 ◼   ► - Okay, hear me out. - Pretty sure that's

01:00:21 ◼   ► what he means. - Hear me out.

01:00:22 ◼   ► - Yeah. - What if instead of apps,

01:00:26 ◼   ► you know the blockchain folks,

01:00:27 ◼   ► they like to have dapps with decentralized apps?

01:00:32 ◼   ► - How is that a thing? - Hear me out.

01:00:33 ◼   ► Hear me out.

01:00:34 ◼   ► Let's rebrand PWAs,

01:00:39 ◼   ► which are terrible name anyway, let's rebrand web apps as Baps.

01:00:44 ◼   ► - Daps. - For browser.

01:00:46 ◼   ► Baps with a B.

01:00:48 ◼   ► - Oh, browser. - For browser apps.

01:00:49 ◼   ► Baps. - Browser apps.

01:00:51 ◼   ► - Baps. - Baps.

01:00:52 ◼   ► - Baps, B-A-P-S, Baps. - Baps.

01:00:54 ◼   ► - That is the name of like a bread roll.

01:00:57 ◼   ► Yeah, like in some parts of England.

01:00:59 ◼   ► - A bap? - Yeah, get like a bacon bap.

01:01:01 ◼   ► - Get a bap, governor.

01:01:02 ◼   ► - Yep, that's it, you nailed it.

01:01:03 ◼   ► A bacon bap would be like a bacon roll, you know,

01:01:05 ◼   ► like a bacon bread roll or something, so it'd be pretty fun.

01:01:08 ◼   ► You know, a lot of Southern states want to ban PWAs

01:01:12 ◼   ► because the word progressive is in the title.

01:01:15 ◼   ► I think that's bad.

01:01:16 ◼   ► - That's a joke, right?

01:01:18 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:01:19 ◼   ► - You should be, this is the thing, right?

01:01:20 ◼   ► If Steven was editing, that joke removed.

01:01:24 ◼   ► Mic editing, that joke remains.

01:01:26 ◼   ► So, you know.

01:01:27 ◼   ► - Yeah, connected under mic is like the director's cut

01:01:31 ◼   ► of connected, like you get everything.

01:01:32 ◼   ► - Release the mic cut of connected.

01:01:34 ◼   ► That's what everyone's gonna say now.

01:01:36 ◼   ► They're all gonna say it.

01:01:37 ◼   ► Like every episode now, it's gonna be like,

01:01:39 ◼   ► hashtag release the mic cut of every one of them.

01:01:43 ◼   ► It's way riskier.

01:01:44 ◼   ► And sometimes, sometimes it goes to black and white

01:01:48 ◼   ► and full by three, you know?

01:01:50 ◼   ► That's the mic cut.

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01:04:15 ◼   ► Display analyst Ross Young has reported that Apple has delayed any plans for a foldable

01:04:20 ◼   ► iPhone until at least 2025. According to Young, Apple's not in a hurry to enter the market,

01:04:27 ◼   ► presumably waiting on the tech to continue improving. Additionally, Apple is apparently

01:04:33 ◼   ► also exploring a foldable notebook, could be a 20 inch screen device, could be a laptop

01:04:38 ◼   ► with a full sized keyboard, you know? Like you could fold it like most like 90 degrees

01:04:43 ◼   ► and you could use it as like a software keyboard and you can type it but it's all screen. Or

01:04:47 ◼   ► you could unfold it completely and you've got like this full screen 4k monitor that

01:04:51 ◼   ► you could use with an external keyboard and is expecting, Young is expecting 2026 as the

01:04:56 ◼   ► earliest for a product like this if Apple were to do it. I wanted to pose the question

01:05:01 ◼   ► to the two of you, which of these two products do you think makes the most sense to do first?

01:05:06 ◼   ► The phone. Okay, why?

01:05:12 ◼   ► Because I feel like it would resonate with people more, to have an iPhone that is fully

01:05:20 ◼   ► like actually foldable. The monitor, like the computer monitor thing, there's a bunch

01:05:28 ◼   ► of problems there. Like, I would love, personally, like a foldable iPad that, you know, can be

01:05:38 ◼   ► used as a small tablet or a big tablet and I can prop up on a stand or connect with a

01:05:42 ◼   ► keyboard or something. But to say that a MacBook is now foldable, which means it doesn't have

01:05:49 ◼   ► a physical keyboard attached anymore, I don't know. Because you're taken away from an existing

01:05:56 ◼   ► form factor and we know when they tried to do... of course it wasn't like a full-on

01:06:02 ◼   ► software keyboard, but the last time they tried to revolutionize the laptop, well,

01:06:07 ◼   ► we know how that went. So does it have to be a MacBook? Couldn't it be like

01:06:13 ◼   ► something else? Couldn't it be an iPad? I guess maybe use a device where touch

01:06:18 ◼   ► first is the starting point. I feel like that would be a better approach. Foldable

01:06:25 ◼   ► MacBook scares me. Foldable iPad, because the starting point I'm already used to, that

01:06:33 ◼   ► makes me feel better.

01:06:34 ◼   ► Yeah, I think probably it is an iPad, right? But it can still be a quote-unquote notebook.

01:06:41 ◼   ► You can still use it like a notebook, you know? In a sense. Because you would have it

01:06:47 ◼   ► like a laptop, you know, in 90 degrees. You've got the big software keyboard, trackpad, typing

01:06:54 ◼   ► in a way over there, you know?

01:06:56 ◼   ► So it's like how you have a Magic Keyboard.

01:06:58 ◼   ► Stephen, what do you think?

01:07:00 ◼   ► - It kind of reminded me of the story

01:07:04 ◼   ► that Apple has told.

01:07:05 ◼   ► They were like working on what would be the iPad

01:07:09 ◼   ► and they realized they could put it in a phone.

01:07:11 ◼   ► So like they put the tablet,

01:07:12 ◼   ► I think the quote from Jobs is like,

01:07:13 ◼   ► they put the tablet project on the shelf

01:07:15 ◼   ► and focused on the phone.

01:07:17 ◼   ► Maybe that's what's going on here.

01:07:18 ◼   ► Maybe it's not.

01:07:19 ◼   ► I kind of agree with Federica though.

01:07:21 ◼   ► Like I think the iPad is the way to go with this.

01:07:24 ◼   ► if you're gonna have something that folds,

01:07:27 ◼   ► I think that would be pretty awesome.

01:07:29 ◼   ► I just don't see the,

01:07:33 ◼   ► like with foldables in particular,

01:07:37 ◼   ► I feel like you need to be able to see the benefit

01:07:40 ◼   ► of the form factor change.

01:07:43 ◼   ► And that makes more sense to me on an iPhone and an iPad

01:07:47 ◼   ► than it does a notebook,

01:07:48 ◼   ► because notebooks already fold in half.

01:07:51 ◼   ► And I just don't like,

01:07:53 ◼   ► I don't want that control surface to be glass.

01:07:57 ◼   ► And the other component of that is the software, of course.

01:08:02 ◼   ► Apple has yet to put a touchscreen on the Mac,

01:08:05 ◼   ► but now we're talking about a full,

01:08:07 ◼   ► like foldable laptop type thing.

01:08:11 ◼   ► If that's gonna run macOS, that doesn't make sense.

01:08:14 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:08:15 ◼   ► It is very strange to me that they would release anything

01:08:19 ◼   ► that was foldable that wasn't a phone first

01:08:22 ◼   ► or maybe an iPad second.

01:08:24 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:08:25 ◼   ► It's really interesting,

01:08:25 ◼   ► but I just don't think a foldable notebook,

01:08:30 ◼   ► at least in the way that it's positioned in these stories,

01:08:34 ◼   ► I just don't see that making any sense.

01:08:36 ◼   ► - I think one of the things I keep struggling with

01:08:41 ◼   ► is like what a foldable iPhone would be.

01:08:46 ◼   ► because I would say, from my experience,

01:08:49 ◼   ► the best foldable phone is the Z Flip.

01:08:53 ◼   ► That's the one that makes the most sense.

01:08:55 ◼   ► I haven't tried the most recent Z Fold,

01:08:59 ◼   ► but still, I kinda like that it's this fun form factor.

01:09:02 ◼   ► But I don't really think that a clamshell iPhone

01:09:07 ◼   ► is necessarily that intriguing of a device.

01:09:11 ◼   ► So I guess it's gotta be some kind of iPhone

01:09:14 ◼   ► which is small but can be bigger.

01:09:16 ◼   ► And so I actually kind of agree that Apple should hold off a little bit longer.

01:09:21 ◼   ► Like, I don't think I would be ultimately that excited with an iPhone that is technically similar to the current Z-folds of the world.

01:09:32 ◼   ► Because it's kind of a difficult product to deal with. Federico, do you disagree with me?

01:09:39 ◼   ► No, I fully agree with it. I have the fold and it's cool, it's neat, but you never shake that, like,

01:09:49 ◼   ► "Oh, it's a neat prototype of something that is going to be much better in the future."

01:09:54 ◼   ► Like, you never shake that feeling.

01:09:55 ◼   ► You know, I think one of the key things is, like, every 18 months or year or whatever they're releasing these things,

01:10:01 ◼   ► they are getting significantly better every time.

01:10:04 ◼   ► So I do kind of feel like it's probably best

01:10:07 ◼   ► to give it a couple more years,

01:10:09 ◼   ► let Samsung keep pushing the envelope

01:10:11 ◼   ► for what this technology can do,

01:10:13 ◼   ► and then consider doing it.

01:10:15 ◼   ► But like I'm just, at the moment,

01:10:17 ◼   ► I'm struggling to get my head around what it would be.

01:10:18 ◼   ► So like I was wondering, like,

01:10:20 ◼   ► would it be simpler to make an iPad device first

01:10:25 ◼   ► as a way to get into this market?

01:10:29 ◼   ► Because you could almost make it like it's its own thing,

01:10:32 ◼   ► You know, like it's rather than necessarily

01:10:35 ◼   ► like this is the new iPhone.

01:10:37 ◼   ► Cause I think that's going to be complicated.

01:10:38 ◼   ► Like I don't really know how they get into that.

01:10:40 ◼   ► Like, this isn't like when the iPhone got bigger, you know.

01:10:45 ◼   ► When the iPhone got bigger, it was just like, well

01:10:48 ◼   ► the iPhone is just now bigger, you know.

01:10:51 ◼   ► But the iPhone now being a foldable display,

01:10:54 ◼   ► like just from a software perspective,

01:10:55 ◼   ► this is a very different thing.

01:10:58 ◼   ► And I feel like it would be easier to scale

01:11:00 ◼   ► with more of a tablet device than a phone

01:11:03 ◼   ► just from like a conceptual standpoint.

01:11:05 ◼   ► But I don't know.

01:11:06 ◼   ► But I feel like it's just closer there than it is.

01:11:09 ◼   ► Like the iPad I feel like could handle this kind of device

01:11:13 ◼   ► a bit easier than the iPhone could

01:11:14 ◼   ► just from like the way that the software would manipulate.

01:11:18 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:11:19 ◼   ► I feel like laptops, too complicated.

01:11:21 ◼   ► Like I don't think that, you know, as you guys are saying,

01:11:25 ◼   ► Mac OS just doesn't feel right for this.

01:11:29 ◼   ► I don't think that a glass keyboard is really going to work in place of a physical keyboard,

01:11:40 ◼   ► you know?

01:11:41 ◼   ► Like, I just think if they were like, here's the new MacBook, it's all screen.

01:11:46 ◼   ► Like I don't, I don't know if I know what the benefit of that would be to me, you know,

01:11:52 ◼   ► like I can't foresee that.

01:11:53 ◼   ► I feel like I want a keyboard if it's going to be a Mac.

01:11:57 ◼   ► If it's an iPad, I'll use an onscreen keyboard.

01:11:59 ◼   ► We still buy magic keyboards for our iPads

01:12:01 ◼   ► 'cause physical keyboards are better than glass keyboards

01:12:03 ◼   ► for a lot of people most of the time, right?

01:12:07 ◼   ► - Yeah, this is very strange to consider it

01:12:09 ◼   ► in a laptop form factor to me for all those reasons.

01:12:13 ◼   ► I do like what you said about this could be a new thing,

01:12:17 ◼   ► right, it could be a new member to the iPad line.

01:12:21 ◼   ► And I do think that's just an easier thing to manage

01:12:25 ◼   ► as opposed to, hey, there's a new iPhone model.

01:12:29 ◼   ► Because we've seen that over the last couple of years.

01:12:31 ◼   ► Right now we have the regular iPhone and then the Pro,

01:12:35 ◼   ► and then, you know, the different sizes within there.

01:12:38 ◼   ► Like, I don't know how much more complex

01:12:40 ◼   ► they want the iPhone line to be.

01:12:43 ◼   ► And when you consider cost,

01:12:45 ◼   ► like no doubt this would be an ex,

01:12:47 ◼   ► whatever form factor it's in,

01:12:48 ◼   ► this is going to be an expensive device.

01:12:51 ◼   ► can the iPhone absorb a $2,000 device,

01:12:56 ◼   ► like in the market and the way people think

01:12:58 ◼   ► about the iPhone?

01:12:59 ◼   ► Maybe the iPad or the Mac could do that easier.

01:13:03 ◼   ► The Mac definitely could do it, the easiest of the three.

01:13:05 ◼   ► I think there's an angle to that too,

01:13:07 ◼   ► of like where does it fit in terms of perception

01:13:09 ◼   ► of what this product line is and does,

01:13:14 ◼   ► and like who it's for.

01:13:16 ◼   ► And I feel like the iPhone, at whatever the Pro Max costs,

01:13:20 ◼   ► I mean, you can get it to like 1500 bucks or something.

01:13:23 ◼   ► I feel like they're already at the outer limit

01:13:25 ◼   ► of what the iPhone can bear in terms of cost.

01:13:30 ◼   ► - Well, Samsung would disagree, right?

01:13:33 ◼   ► Like they go higher, but I think--

01:13:35 ◼   ► - But they also, but Samsung also has multiple lines

01:13:38 ◼   ► of phones already.

01:13:39 ◼   ► Like we focus a lot on the Galaxy line, the Galaxy S,

01:13:42 ◼   ► but there's also the A series of phones.

01:13:45 ◼   ► Like they have a broader portfolio than Apple does.

01:13:50 ◼   ► even though those other phones may not be as popular

01:13:52 ◼   ► here in the US.

01:13:53 ◼   ► - Yep, I agree with you.

01:13:54 ◼   ► But like to your point,

01:13:57 ◼   ► if this is gonna be your first,

01:13:59 ◼   ► like whenever they do their first foldable device, right?

01:14:02 ◼   ► If you make it an iPhone,

01:14:04 ◼   ► there's so much expectation that goes along with that

01:14:06 ◼   ► for like refreshing the product.

01:14:09 ◼   ► Like will there be a new foldable iPhone every year?

01:14:14 ◼   ► Or like what if it doesn't work out

01:14:15 ◼   ► and now you've made an iPhone

01:14:17 ◼   ► and you have to stop making that iPhone?

01:14:19 ◼   ► where I feel like with an iPad,

01:14:21 ◼   ► if they did some kind of foldable screen to iPad,

01:14:24 ◼   ► - Yeah.

01:14:25 ◼   ► - You get like, you could be two, three years

01:14:27 ◼   ► before you bring out a next model, if at all.

01:14:30 ◼   ► I feel like there's so much more pressure

01:14:32 ◼   ► to add to the iPhone line,

01:14:35 ◼   ► iPhone mini notwithstanding,

01:14:37 ◼   ► than it is to the iPad line.

01:14:40 ◼   ► - Yeah, yeah, I think that's another angle here.

01:14:42 ◼   ► An iPhone that's one and done,

01:14:45 ◼   ► that's a pretty bad look.

01:14:48 ◼   ► and one that I don't think I don't think they would want to risk that.

01:14:51 ◼   ► And, you know.

01:14:55 ◼   ► Not to bring up painful memories for people,

01:14:57 ◼   ► but like Apple is sort of still recovering in the Mac line,

01:15:01 ◼   ► at least from some products like that, right? The.

01:15:03 ◼   ► Obviously, the trash can, but the the one port MacBook,

01:15:09 ◼   ► like they had what three visions of that and it's gone.

01:15:11 ◼   ► They kind of just got the Mac house back in order after six or seven years

01:15:18 ◼   ► of really some like pretty bad decision making.

01:15:23 ◼   ► And I would imagine that moving forward,

01:15:28 ◼   ► that I would hope that if you're like bring,

01:15:32 ◼   ► working on new products in inside Apple,

01:15:36 ◼   ► you have to prove that there is a feasible roadmap forward

01:15:40 ◼   ► for the next couple of revisions, right?

01:15:42 ◼   ► So like when they, for instance,

01:15:44 ◼   ► then they built that 24 inch iMac mic

01:15:46 ◼   ► that you're sitting in front of right now,

01:15:47 ◼   ► gorgeous machine, super thin.

01:15:49 ◼   ► I'm sure that they know that that thing can take an M2

01:15:54 ◼   ► and an M3 and maybe even further down the road, right?

01:15:58 ◼   ► They didn't design it so constrained

01:16:00 ◼   ► to what they have available now,

01:16:01 ◼   ► they couldn't upgrade it in the future.

01:16:03 ◼   ► And something that's a new form factor,

01:16:07 ◼   ► like I've just got to imagine that's a bigger conversation

01:16:09 ◼   ► than it used to be.

01:16:10 ◼   ► And that has to be a conversation in these things

01:16:13 ◼   ► because this form factor is so weird that,

01:16:16 ◼   ► Yeah, we need to know that this is something we can actually support and improve upon year

01:16:20 ◼   ► after year or every 18 months or whatever it is and not just be like, Oh, we did it

01:16:24 ◼   ► once and it didn't work out and now we're stuck.

01:16:28 ◼   ► And we're not going to see anything even remotely like this before they put a touchscreen on

01:16:33 ◼   ► a regular Mac anyway, like this isn't going to be a Mac until the Mac gets a touchscreen.

01:16:38 ◼   ► Can you imagine if like they refuse to put touchscreens on a Mac until it's all touchscreen?

01:16:44 ◼   ► and then like that's still the only one.

01:16:46 ◼   ► - Or it's a, or even worse,

01:16:50 ◼   ► the half that has the keyboard and trackpad is touch,

01:16:53 ◼   ► and it's like locked to that half of the screen,

01:16:56 ◼   ► but the UI part is like, nope, can't touch that part.

01:16:59 ◼   ► - Oh no.

01:17:00 ◼   ► - That'd be amazing.

01:17:02 ◼   ► That would be terrible.

01:17:03 ◼   ► They should not, they should not do that.

01:17:05 ◼   ► There's no, I mean, I would be really surprised

01:17:07 ◼   ► at the first foldable thing we see

01:17:09 ◼   ► as like a Mac OS notebook.

01:17:10 ◼   ► That just makes, that makes no sense to me whatsoever.

01:17:13 ◼   ► No, I don't think it will be.

01:17:15 ◼   ► I really don't.

01:17:16 ◼   ► No.

01:17:17 ◼   ► That doesn't make any sense.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Yeah.

01:17:18 ◼   ► Sorry, Ross Young.

01:17:20 ◼   ► Yeah, I guess, yeah, I guess Ross Young is our enemy now.

01:17:25 ◼   ► Yep.

01:17:26 ◼   ► You, Ross, you are enemy of the podcast.

01:17:28 ◼   ► Wow.

01:17:29 ◼   ► So we did a whole premise and yeah, that's it.

01:17:34 ◼   ► Well, I think that does it for this week.

01:17:35 ◼   ► If you want to read more about the stuff we spoke about,

01:17:39 ◼   ► the awesome connectedintro.com, Spotify stuff,

01:17:43 ◼   ► my iPhone case, anything.

01:17:44 ◼   ► All the links are over in the show notes

01:17:46 ◼   ► at relay.fm/connected/386.

01:17:50 ◼   ► Ah, we should have talked about the Intel processor.

01:17:53 ◼   ► It's not Flashback. - Oh yeah.

01:17:54 ◼   ► I can't believe I didn't think of that.

01:17:56 ◼   ► - I believe we didn't think about that.

01:17:59 ◼   ► Well, in 100 episodes, we'll hit the 486.

01:18:01 ◼   ► How about that?

01:18:02 ◼   ► - Can't wait.

01:18:03 ◼   ► - You're gonna leave that in, aren't you?

01:18:06 ◼   ► - Well, yeah.

01:18:06 ◼   ► This is your essence. - Thank you for having

01:18:09 ◼   ► me this week.

01:18:10 ◼   ► - Like, this is who you are, is this kind of stuff.

01:18:12 ◼   ► Would you have taken that out?

01:18:14 ◼   ► No, I would have, no, I would have let that in.

01:18:18 ◼   ► You would have put into a laugh track though, right?

01:18:21 ◼   ► You know I did a laugh track last week.

01:18:23 ◼   ► Did you?

01:18:24 ◼   ► It was great.

01:18:25 ◼   ► After one joke.

01:18:26 ◼   ► What joke?

01:18:27 ◼   ► I think I did it after, I'm trying to remember.

01:18:31 ◼   ► I think I did it after I suggested I use a laugh track

01:18:33 ◼   ► and y'all didn't laugh.

01:18:34 ◼   ► And then I like put the laugh track in there.

01:18:36 ◼   ► Wow.

01:18:37 ◼   ► There's a lot of laugh sound effects that come in logic.

01:18:41 ◼   ► Yeah, they're horrible.

01:18:42 ◼   ► Yeah, they're all really bad.

01:18:44 ◼   ► Yeah, they're horrible.

01:18:44 ◼   ► And the Cheerin' ones, yeah.

01:18:47 ◼   ► If I've ever used stuff like that,

01:18:48 ◼   ► I'd buy them because they're terrible.

01:18:50 ◼   ► Yeah, the Free Ones are always bad.

01:18:51 ◼   ► It's always funny to me when I hear like an iLife

01:18:54 ◼   ► or Logic sound effect in a TV show or a movie.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Mm-hmm.

01:18:57 ◼   ► Really, was there no budget for this?

01:19:00 ◼   ► Yeah, or like your theme song is a GarageBand loop.

01:19:02 ◼   ► Yep.

01:19:03 ◼   ► We've all been there.

01:19:05 ◼   ► Anyways, all the links are in the show notes.

01:19:07 ◼   ► You can become a member and get connected pro.

01:19:12 ◼   ► There are links on the webpage to join monthly or annually.

01:19:16 ◼   ► I suggest annually, it's a little bit money off.

01:19:20 ◼   ► Anyways, you can do that.

01:19:21 ◼   ► Connected Pro is awesome.

01:19:22 ◼   ► It is a longer ad-free version of the show.

01:19:25 ◼   ► This week in the Pro Show,

01:19:26 ◼   ► we spoke about the early days of Twitter

01:19:29 ◼   ► and some of our early Twitter usage

01:19:31 ◼   ► and some of the funny language

01:19:32 ◼   ► that has developed around Twitter over the years.

01:19:35 ◼   ► I really enjoyed that conversation.

01:19:36 ◼   ► I think you will too.

01:19:37 ◼   ► So go join up and get connected pro.

01:19:40 ◼   ► You can also leave feedback or follow up.

01:19:44 ◼   ► There's a link to email us there on the website

01:19:46 ◼   ► or you can do it on Twitter, speaking of Twitter.

01:19:48 ◼   ► You can find Federico there as Vitici, V-I-T-I-C-C-I.

01:19:53 ◼   ► And he is the editor and chief of maxstories.net

01:19:56 ◼   ► and is enjoying some sort of video game stuff.

01:20:00 ◼   ► I saw a screenshot earlier of some sort of game happening.

01:20:03 ◼   ► So that was cool, I guess.

01:20:05 ◼   ► That was a PlayStation video game, Steven.

01:20:08 ◼   ► That's a bunch of people are praying right now.

01:20:11 ◼   ► Some video game stuff.

01:20:13 ◼   ► Some kind of video game that the kids--

01:20:15 ◼   ► Some sort of--

01:20:16 ◼   ► I'm enjoying some sort of game thing at the moment.

01:20:21 ◼   ► Okay, well good.

01:20:22 ◼   ► It's called the Horizon on the PlayStation,

01:20:25 ◼   ► you know, kids these days, these PlayStations.

01:20:29 ◼   ► Playing their arcade games at home.

01:20:31 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:20:33 ◼   ► You can follow Myke on Twitter.

01:20:35 ◼   ► He is I-M-Y-K-E.

01:20:37 ◼   ► Myke hosts a bunch of other shows here on Relay FM.

01:20:40 ◼   ► Myke, what do you have going on this week?

01:20:42 ◼   ► - Let me look at my camera.

01:20:43 ◼   ► - Cortex was really good.

01:20:46 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, you should check that out.

01:20:47 ◼   ► Yeah, that was good.

01:20:49 ◼   ► I never liked this question because I feel like

01:20:52 ◼   ► I have to like say things that I've done that I like

01:20:56 ◼   ► and that makes me feel very uncomfortable to do.

01:21:00 ◼   ► - So the question feels taller than you.

01:21:02 ◼   ► - The question is definitely taller than me.

01:21:04 ◼   ► There's no doubt about that.

01:21:06 ◼   ► - You can follow me on Twitter as ISMH

01:21:11 ◼   ► and I host other shows here on Relay FM,

01:21:13 ◼   ► including Mac Power Users.

01:21:15 ◼   ► Go check that out.

01:21:16 ◼   ► I'd like to thank our sponsors this week,

01:21:17 ◼   ► Squarespace, Hover, and Trade Coffee.

01:21:20 ◼   ► And until next week, guys, say goodbye.

01:21:23 ◼   ► - Arrivederci.

01:21:24 ◼   ► - Cheerio.

01:21:26 ◼   ► - Bye, y'all.