Connected

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:08 ◼   ► Hello and welcome to Connected, episode 418.

00:00:12 ◼   ► It's made possible this week by our sponsors, Squarespace, Capital One, and Sofa.

00:00:18 ◼   ► My name is Stephen Hackett, I'm joined by Relay FM co-founder and one-time indie blogger, Myke Hurley.

00:00:26 ◼   ► I was never an indie blogger. I may have had aspirations.

00:00:28 ◼   ► You tried!

00:00:29 ◼   ► Those aspirations. I never actually like tried to make a career

00:00:33 ◼   ► Thank you one time indie blogger Steven Hackett. I'm still an indie blogger

00:00:37 ◼   ► I never stopped and we're both joined by one time indie blogger Federico didi

00:00:44 ◼   ► Hello, it's so good to join the two co-founders of the relay FM podcast network. Yes

00:00:50 ◼   ► It's such a such a such an honor really

00:00:54 ◼   ► We're happy to honor you with our presence. Yes, I feel thanks

00:00:58 ◼   ► I feel honored by you and Michael.

00:01:03 ◼   ► Thank you for honoring me.

00:01:05 ◼   ► We got a big show today.

00:01:07 ◼   ► We're gonna be joined a little bit later on

00:01:09 ◼   ► by everyone's favorite Apple vlogger,

00:01:13 ◼   ► underscore David Smith, talk about the Apple Watch Ultra.

00:01:16 ◼   ► But first we have some follow-up.

00:01:19 ◼   ► I'm gonna do it follow-up slash follow-out.

00:01:21 ◼   ► On upgrade this week, Myke, you and Jason spoke

00:01:24 ◼   ► about Tim Cook's world tour.

00:01:26 ◼   ► That was an incredible segment.

00:01:27 ◼   ► - Thank you. - I should say.

00:01:28 ◼   ► - Yes, so good. - That was a lot of fun.

00:01:30 ◼   ► That was one of those, you guys know this,

00:01:31 ◼   ► it was just one of those things, we put it in a document,

00:01:33 ◼   ► I thought it would take five minutes,

00:01:35 ◼   ► and I think we were doing like 25 minutes, right?

00:01:37 ◼   ► You know that kind of thing where you're like,

00:01:39 ◼   ► this might be a fun aside,

00:01:40 ◼   ► but then you get really carried away,

00:01:41 ◼   ► and we kind of went all CSI on it, it was good.

00:01:44 ◼   ► - We've never gone off the rails on this show,

00:01:48 ◼   ► I don't know what you mean.

00:01:49 ◼   ► - Never, never ever ever.

00:01:51 ◼   ► - Never, but one of those stops

00:01:54 ◼   ► grabbed my attention for a couple of reasons.

00:01:57 ◼   ► One, Myke, you and I have been talking about honorary degrees.

00:02:02 ◼   ► We were joking that like if you got an honorary degree from like the University of Memphis,

00:02:07 ◼   ► but I didn't, that I'd be mad.

00:02:09 ◼   ► But Tim Cook got a honorary degree, a very large honorary degree by a man in a cape, Italy.

00:02:18 ◼   ► So Federico, what is happening here?

00:02:20 ◼   ► I don't think what's happening, like this is not unusual.

00:02:24 ◼   ► Like I think this whole setup, especially with the clothing of the dean of the university,

00:02:31 ◼   ► I think it may look unusual, maybe outside of Italy or Europe.

00:02:37 ◼   ► I think it looks funny to an American audience.

00:02:40 ◼   ► This is all very normal to me, like for an official celebration for what is called a

00:02:47 ◼   ► honoris causa, it's Latin for basically like honorary degree.

00:02:52 ◼   ► This whole setup with the dean being all dressed up with the mantle and the fur and the little

00:02:57 ◼   ► hat, this is all pretty regular to me.

00:03:00 ◼   ► And the honorary degree, I mean, it's given to public figures very often by different

00:03:06 ◼   ► universities in Italy, at least.

00:03:08 ◼   ► Like you often see politicians or celebrities who have done something particularly good

00:03:17 ◼   ► for society at large, like they were philanthropists or whatever. Like that often happens. They

00:03:25 ◼   ► give you a honorary degree. Also, usually it's related to the recipient of the degree

00:03:35 ◼   ► being a benefactor of some kind to the university, right? Like maybe this person opened a whole

00:03:43 ◼   ► new wing for the university or something and it just so happens that a couple of years

00:03:48 ◼   ► later you get a honorary degree. Like it's in this case...

00:03:52 ◼   ► That's exactly what happened here. In a way this is what happened here because

00:03:57 ◼   ► the Federico second, the Federico the second, it's called Federico secondo in Italian, but

00:04:03 ◼   ► this university is the one that participates, I believe, with Apple on the Developer Academy,

00:04:09 ◼   ► which is in Naples, Italy. It was the Developer Academy in Naples, I believe was the first

00:04:14 ◼   ► one that Apple opened, oh gosh, what was it, five, six years ago, maybe?

00:04:19 ◼   ► -Probably, yeah. -And there is a related course, I want to

00:04:23 ◼   ► say, at the Federico Secondo University for being a mobile developer. So yeah, a few years

00:04:31 ◼   ► past, Tim Cook just so happens to get a honorary degree. And of course, it's a big celebration.

00:04:37 ◼   ► was live streamed on the university's YouTube channel.

00:04:41 ◼   ► And there's the whole big fancy clothing and the huge diploma. I mean,

00:04:46 ◼   ► this is all, but I just want to say,

00:04:49 ◼   ► this is all pretty standard for a public figure. Yeah.

00:04:52 ◼   ► I don't know if I shared this with you Federico.

00:04:55 ◼   ► I don't know if I said this publicly,

00:04:57 ◼   ► but Steven knows that it is a life goal of mine, like a dream,

00:05:01 ◼   ► to get an honorary degree because I don't have a degree.

00:05:04 ◼   ► Yeah, me neither. Like I, I always,

00:05:06 ◼   ► I always say this to my friends and it makes for a good icebreaker. You know, when I'm

00:05:11 ◼   ► when I'm like, let's say that that, you know, I'm just talking about myself and people get

00:05:16 ◼   ► curious about me like, hey, are you like someone who doesn't know me like, where did you study?

00:05:20 ◼   ► And like, yeah, actually, I don't have a degree. I started working when I was 19. And I always

00:05:25 ◼   ► crack the joke of like, but my goal is to get an honorary degree at some point in my

00:05:29 ◼   ► life. And it's one of the things that I want. Like, I want to be recognized.

00:05:32 ◼   ► All the glory, none of the work.

00:05:34 ◼   ► Yeah, without none of the work. I just want a guy or a lady, I don't know how this works,

00:05:42 ◼   ► but I just want a person with a whole big fancy clothing going on and the hat and the

00:05:47 ◼   ► fur and the big mantle and I want to be given that.

00:05:51 ◼   ► But I have now decided that my secondary life goal is to get one of these from the University

00:05:56 ◼   ► of Memphis.

00:05:57 ◼   ► Okay, very specific, but I get it.

00:06:00 ◼   ► I think that would be very funny if I got an honorary degree from Stevens University.

00:06:07 ◼   ► But I will take one from any university.

00:06:11 ◼   ► Just putting this out there, if any university wants to give me and Federico honorary degrees,

00:06:18 ◼   ► we will accept them.

00:06:19 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah, for sure.

00:06:22 ◼   ► I mean we don't, you know, we're not selective here.

00:06:26 ◼   ► Like anything works.

00:06:27 ◼   ► You know, even the, you know, to have a reference, even the University of American Samoa would

00:06:33 ◼   ► be okay.

00:06:34 ◼   ► Like, whatever.

00:06:35 ◼   ► Oh, oh, reference acknowledged, sir.

00:06:36 ◼   ► Yeah, yeah.

00:06:37 ◼   ► I mean, anything works.

00:06:38 ◼   ► So just give it to us and we'll be happy.

00:06:42 ◼   ► I do want a presentation, though.

00:06:43 ◼   ► Like, I don't just want it to be mailed to me.

00:06:45 ◼   ► Oh, no, it's gotta be a whole event.

00:06:48 ◼   ► And there's gotta be, there's gotta be a buffet, I think, afterwards.

00:06:53 ◼   ► there's got to be food and drinks and at least two members of the press because

00:06:59 ◼   ► if there's only one member of the press it could be kind of awkward like what is

00:07:03 ◼   ► this like an exclusive report no there's gonna be at least two of them so at least

00:07:07 ◼   ► two press people having independent reports. I mean it would be pretty cool though if it was an exclusive article

00:07:13 ◼   ► though right? Well we can have the exclusive interview but the news event needs to be...

00:07:20 ◼   ► Yeah, but the news event needs to be covered on multiple places.

00:07:25 ◼   ► And I will do a commencement address if you need me to.

00:07:29 ◼   ► I will do one.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Right.

00:07:32 ◼   ► Which you could have Dali or something or GPT-3 generate for you.

00:07:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:07:40 ◼   ► Because I probably wouldn't be the best commencement speaker because I didn't go to university.

00:07:46 ◼   ► So you know, if I start off with like, congratulations today, in my opinion, potentially what you've

00:07:54 ◼   ► done here is pointless.

00:07:57 ◼   ► I don't know if that's really going to set the stage in the right way.

00:08:04 ◼   ► Congratulations, you've wasted four years of your life.

00:08:06 ◼   ► And a lot of money.

00:08:08 ◼   ► Good luck getting a job, bye!

00:08:10 ◼   ► And then I leave and take my degree.

00:08:12 ◼   ► It's like, but I don't care, I got my degree.

00:08:14 ◼   ► So I don't know if y'all know this, but I have a degree.

00:08:18 ◼   ► - Oh, really?

00:08:19 ◼   ► - In journalism.

00:08:21 ◼   ► - Do you know, I had this,

00:08:22 ◼   ► I thought I had a fake memory, Federico,

00:08:26 ◼   ► that was confirmed to me when I was in Memphis, right?

00:08:29 ◼   ► Now, as we all know, Steven is much older than us, right?

00:08:32 ◼   ► Much, much older than us. - Right, much, much.

00:08:34 ◼   ► - Much older. - Yes.

00:08:35 ◼   ► - But I had a memory of him graduating from college,

00:08:40 ◼   ► and that didn't match up, right?

00:08:44 ◼   ► Like if you think about we've known each other for 10 years,

00:08:46 ◼   ► Steven is 38?

00:08:47 ◼   ► - 36.

00:08:49 ◼   ► - 36, Steven is 36.

00:08:52 ◼   ► Apparently, he's somewhere between 36 and 40, right?

00:08:56 ◼   ► So like if I've known him--

00:08:57 ◼   ► - I think it's flipped, it's 39.

00:08:59 ◼   ► - 63, and if I've known him for 10 years,

00:09:03 ◼   ► how could I have remembered him graduating from university?

00:09:07 ◼   ► But it's true, he did graduate from university

00:09:10 ◼   ► within the last 10 years.

00:09:12 ◼   ► - Yeah, I took a long time to finish.

00:09:13 ◼   ► You've seen the actual proof of him graduating?

00:09:17 ◼   ► Like you've seen the document?

00:09:18 ◼   ► - That I don't remember.

00:09:19 ◼   ► I haven't seen the gown or anything.

00:09:22 ◼   ► - I didn't go to my graduation.

00:09:23 ◼   ► - Okay, does that mean?

00:09:24 ◼   ► - But I did graduate.

00:09:25 ◼   ► - Wait, if you don't go--

00:09:27 ◼   ► - Wait, does that mean you never graduated?

00:09:29 ◼   ► It's like you never, are you sure you graduated?

00:09:32 ◼   ► - Yeah, I just went and so, okay, so here's the thing.

00:09:34 ◼   ► I started college in 2004, so I should have finished 2008,

00:09:38 ◼   ► but I took until 2011 to finish.

00:09:40 ◼   ► And so I just went and picked up my diploma one day,

00:09:44 ◼   ► and it was the most underwhelming ending

00:09:47 ◼   ► to a college career anyone could have,

00:09:49 ◼   ► 'cause I went to an office and they said,

00:09:51 ◼   ► "Wait here a minute."

00:09:52 ◼   ► - Oh my God, I remember you telling me this at the time.

00:09:54 ◼   ► - Then they handed me a tube with my diploma

00:09:56 ◼   ► and they said, "Congratulations."

00:09:58 ◼   ► And I said, "Thanks," and then I left.

00:10:00 ◼   ► - I'm having so many major flashbacks right now.

00:10:03 ◼   ► This is, I'm having some sense memories.

00:10:06 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:07 ◼   ► - Incredible.

00:10:08 ◼   ► - Yeah.

00:10:09 ◼   ► Congratulations on your graduation.

00:10:11 ◼   ► What I want is my, my old school, uh, they do like a distinguished

00:10:16 ◼   ► journalism alumni every year.

00:10:18 ◼   ► And I'm the only person that I went to school with working in anything close

00:10:22 ◼   ► to journalism, right?

00:10:23 ◼   ► And definitely with the biggest audience.

00:10:25 ◼   ► So I was like, Hey, I already have the degree.

00:10:29 ◼   ► I just want the honor part now, but I haven't gotten it.

00:10:31 ◼   ► I know we were talking about this again, when we were together.

00:10:36 ◼   ► Federico, I think you'll agree with me.

00:10:38 ◼   ► Stephen should 100% be given this honor, right?

00:10:42 ◼   ► That like, he is a successful journalist.

00:10:47 ◼   ► I am assuming probably one of the most successful

00:10:52 ◼   ► from that graduating year or more, right?

00:10:57 ◼   ► I think he should be given this.

00:10:58 ◼   ► I think the University of Memphis should honor Stephen

00:11:01 ◼   ► as a distinguished graduate.

00:11:02 ◼   ► I think someone should write an email

00:11:05 ◼   ► to the University of Memphis and explain who Stephen is, what he does, what is accomplished

00:11:12 ◼   ► for this online community and the city of Memphis and he should get the recognition

00:11:21 ◼   ► he deserves. I think the University of Memphis should be informed about Stephen Hackett.

00:11:33 ◼   ► I think we're starting a letter writing campaign.

00:11:36 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:11:37 ◼   ► Sarva in the Discord says,

00:11:42 ◼   ► "There's a high score table somewhere

00:11:44 ◼   ► with Stephen's name at the top."

00:11:45 ◼   ► (laughs)

00:11:48 ◼   ► Oh, that's fantastic.

00:11:49 ◼   ► How would you feel about getting that honor in 2023, Stephen?

00:11:53 ◼   ► I'd love it.

00:11:54 ◼   ► I would invite both of y'all.

00:11:55 ◼   ► Would you like it if you get it

00:11:58 ◼   ► because the universe is under duress to give it to you?

00:12:01 ◼   ► No, it don't matter to me.

00:12:03 ◼   ► - Oh, okay, you don't care.

00:12:04 ◼   ► I mean, I agree with this.

00:12:05 ◼   ► - When it's hanging on my wall

00:12:06 ◼   ► and the background of Zoom calls,

00:12:09 ◼   ► no one else knows that they were--

00:12:11 ◼   ► - And also, really, if the reason they give it to you

00:12:13 ◼   ► is because of passionate pressure,

00:12:18 ◼   ► that only proves the point, doesn't it?

00:12:21 ◼   ► - Passionate pressure.

00:12:22 ◼   ► - Right?

00:12:23 ◼   ► That you have such an adoring fan base.

00:12:26 ◼   ► But now, if you don't get it, what does that say?

00:12:31 ◼   ► Now we'll put it out there into the world.

00:12:33 ◼   ► Okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.

00:12:34 ◼   ► - Let's talk about the boxes

00:12:36 ◼   ► that the Apple Watch Ultra come in.

00:12:38 ◼   ► Last year I, last year, last week, one week ago,

00:12:43 ◼   ► yeah, one week ago on the show,

00:12:46 ◼   ► I talked about the box for my Apple Watch Ultra

00:12:48 ◼   ► and how it had mountains on the inside

00:12:50 ◼   ► with the Alpine band.

00:12:51 ◼   ► I said, I believe the different versions

00:12:53 ◼   ► come with different inlays.

00:12:55 ◼   ► That's true, there's a post over on r/applewatch

00:12:59 ◼   ► that has the OceanBand and it has waves and stuff

00:13:02 ◼   ► on the print, printing on the inside of the box.

00:13:04 ◼   ► You can see that.

00:13:05 ◼   ► What is interesting is that if you just buy

00:13:08 ◼   ► one of the bands, the boxes aren't as fancy.

00:13:11 ◼   ► So I bought an OceanBand since the last time we spoke.

00:13:15 ◼   ► They had the white one in stock at my local Apple store.

00:13:18 ◼   ► And it came in a nice box,

00:13:19 ◼   ► but not like this unboxing experience you get

00:13:22 ◼   ► if it's paired with the watch from the beginning.

00:13:25 ◼   ► And I really liked the OceanBand.

00:13:27 ◼   ► I got it in white.

00:13:28 ◼   ► I find it to be very comfortable.

00:13:31 ◼   ► It's really interesting because it's one size fits all

00:13:36 ◼   ► and then you can get like for an extra amount of money,

00:13:39 ◼   ► you get a really long strap, like put around a wetsuit

00:13:41 ◼   ► if you're diving with it.

00:13:43 ◼   ► And look, the most wet this watch is ever gonna get

00:13:46 ◼   ► is maybe in the bathtub.

00:13:47 ◼   ► I'm not going real far underwater with this thing.

00:13:49 ◼   ► So I just got the regular one.

00:13:50 ◼   ► - Do you wear your watch in the bath?

00:13:52 ◼   ► - I mean, depends sometimes, you know, gotta be,

00:13:55 ◼   ► if I slip, you know, I gotta hit the siren

00:13:57 ◼   ► and get married to come get me out.

00:13:59 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:14:00 ◼   ► But what's interesting with the Ocean band

00:14:03 ◼   ► is the retaining clip for like the tail of the band.

00:14:08 ◼   ► There are real names for all these things.

00:14:10 ◼   ► I apologize if you're a watch person.

00:14:12 ◼   ► But they're titanium, so they match the watch.

00:14:15 ◼   ► But you place one wherever you need it,

00:14:18 ◼   ► and it's like spring loaded.

00:14:20 ◼   ► So you, in the box, it's like a separate little oval loop,

00:14:23 ◼   ► and then you open it up and put it where you want it.

00:14:26 ◼   ► And I find it to be really comfortable.

00:14:28 ◼   ► I love the way the white looks with the titanium.

00:14:31 ◼   ► For years, I wore a stainless steel Apple watch

00:14:33 ◼   ► with a white band,

00:14:34 ◼   ► and this feels like going back to my roots with that.

00:14:37 ◼   ► So I really liked the ocean band.

00:14:40 ◼   ► It's kind of weird looking,

00:14:42 ◼   ► but in white, I think it works.

00:14:44 ◼   ► In yellow, it looks like noodles.

00:14:46 ◼   ► So the yellow one's not for me, but I like the white.

00:14:49 ◼   ► - Have we done about these Apple watch?

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00:16:40 ◼   ► connected and relay FM. So Federico, last week we had one of the most epic

00:16:45 ◼   ► episodes of Connected ever were sadly your your family's beach house the the

00:16:52 ◼   ► yard was broken into they stole your axe and some grilling utensils any updates

00:16:58 ◼   ► there we've gotten tweets and emails from people all week wondering you know

00:17:01 ◼   ► what's been going on so can you give us an update or is it all like secret with

00:17:06 ◼   ► the FBI or something no I can not the FBI the Carabinieri as Myke said last

00:17:12 ◼   ► week I can confirm, the grilling utensils or as I described them the barbecue stuff has indeed been

00:17:20 ◼   ► stolen. Why did you need to clarify that? Well just you know to make sure that people have the right

00:17:27 ◼   ► context. Right. Has been stolen along with a we had this like this little case with a bunch of tools

00:17:37 ◼   ► like an electric screwdriver and I believe there was a hammer inside like just basic tools for

00:17:46 ◼   ► fixing stuff that was also stolen. But I do have an update in that the axe is back so you can you

00:17:58 ◼   ► can clearly tell from the video that the guy grabs the little axe that we keep for cutting pieces of

00:18:06 ◼   ► wood, you can see that it grabs it and it passes it to the other guy standing

00:18:12 ◼   ► outside the gate. However, the following morning my mom went to the house, went to

00:18:18 ◼   ► the house, she checked that they did not break into the apartment itself.

00:18:23 ◼   ► Thankfully they did not, so it was all outside. She checked and then she went to

00:18:28 ◼   ► the police station to file an official report and attach the videos that we

00:18:34 ◼   ► collect that we got from our security camera, attach them as an official

00:18:38 ◼   ► as official evidence for the report. And when she went there she sends me these

00:18:43 ◼   ► photos like "the axe is here" so they put that one thing back and I'm very happy

00:18:51 ◼   ► about that because I was very I really like that instrument you know it's it's

00:18:56 ◼   ► very nicely done. It makes sense why they would put the axe back. Really? Does it

00:19:01 ◼   ► make sense I think so like these guys they didn't seem like they were very

00:19:05 ◼   ► good criminals no maybe that they have fear that they might get caught it is a

00:19:12 ◼   ► it's not good to be caught having stolen like a weapon essentially oh yeah I

00:19:18 ◼   ► didn't think about that that is a because this was the thing that worried

00:19:21 ◼   ► me at the time that I didn't really want to mention but now I will mention like I

00:19:25 ◼   ► was worried that some kind of crime would be committed with the axe but mmm

00:19:29 ◼   ► It seems like "no" is the answer to that.

00:19:32 ◼   ► So I'm pleased that the axe is back.

00:19:34 ◼   ► And also, that just sounds like an incredible name for an album.

00:19:38 ◼   ► Yeah, I know.

00:19:39 ◼   ► Like a metal album?

00:19:41 ◼   ► Yeah, you can visualize the cover even.

00:19:44 ◼   ► It's so good.

00:19:45 ◼   ► I also want to confirm that I've watched the videos over and over.

00:19:49 ◼   ► I've sent the videos to my mom, to the police of course,

00:19:52 ◼   ► as well as to my friends who spent multiple weeks with me

00:19:56 ◼   ► in this house over multiple summers through the years.

00:19:59 ◼   ► And they know the neighbors,

00:20:01 ◼   ► they know the people who live on that street.

00:20:03 ◼   ► It's a very small local street.

00:20:06 ◼   ► It's the guy outside the gate is 100% the guy we think,

00:20:12 ◼   ► I originally thought it was.

00:20:14 ◼   ► And everybody's like, yep, that's his voice.

00:20:17 ◼   ► And my mom told the police about this.

00:20:20 ◼   ► And of course the police told her, look,

00:20:22 ◼   ► we cannot include this part in the report because then you got to lawyer up and prove

00:20:29 ◼   ► what you're saying essentially. So basically the story is I know who did it and there's

00:20:36 ◼   ► nothing I can do about it effectively, you know, except being extremely mindful of my

00:20:43 ◼   ► surroundings at this point, I guess. But yeah, it's one of those situations where like, what

00:20:51 ◼   ► are you gonna do? Right? The police say they're gonna investigate this, but honestly, are

00:20:56 ◼   ► they really going through the effort of finding two guys who stole like a bunch of tools and

00:21:04 ◼   ► barbecue stuff? No, they're not. They got much bigger problems to deal with. And as

00:21:10 ◼   ► soon as I realized what they actually took, it's more about the feeling of being violated

00:21:17 ◼   ► in a way, and seeing a guy through a security camera go through your stuff. They took essentially

00:21:24 ◼   ► nothing, right? But it's more about the fact of seeing a rando just jump over the gate

00:21:31 ◼   ► and go through your stuff and open your things and touch your things and take some of them.

00:21:38 ◼   ► really just gross, you know? And now that the camera is always on, of course, we're

00:21:47 ◼   ► keeping it there with the Apple TV serving as the home hub, and I

00:21:53 ◼   ► kind of had this thought of like, you know, going there and pretending to be

00:22:02 ◼   ► blissfully ignorant about all this, and go to this person and be like "Oh my

00:22:08 ◼   ► God, can you believe it that someone broke into my house and pretending that they know nothing

00:22:15 ◼   ► about the fact that I know, but I don't think I'm gonna do that.

00:22:20 ◼   ► And little do they know that those tools are actually covered in radioactive waste.

00:22:24 ◼   ► I mean, I kind of thought about doing that and be like, please let me know if you see anything

00:22:32 ◼   ► suspicious around here. Would you please, would you be, would you be so kind to let me know? But

00:22:37 ◼   ► But I'm not gonna do that.

00:22:39 ◼   ► Because like, you know, these people, they're gonna, you know.

00:22:41 ◼   ► - They're clearly in a different situation to you, right?

00:22:44 ◼   ► Like in that they would do this.

00:22:46 ◼   ► So it's kind of like, I'm just like, I would forget.

00:22:49 ◼   ► - I don't wanna be in the situation where you do this,

00:22:52 ◼   ► you confront a guy doing this,

00:22:53 ◼   ► and they do the thing that they do in the movies

00:22:56 ◼   ► where they raise their shirt just a little

00:22:58 ◼   ► and they show you a gun, you know?

00:23:00 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:23:01 ◼   ► - Just.

00:23:02 ◼   ► - Or an ax, or like a power tool of some kind.

00:23:05 ◼   ► - You know, I don't wanna be in that situation.

00:23:07 ◼   ► So I'm not, essentially I'm not gonna do anything.

00:23:10 ◼   ► But that was a pretty big scare.

00:23:12 ◼   ► And I continue to believe that it's just gross

00:23:15 ◼   ► to see someone else go through your stuff.

00:23:17 ◼   ► - I know what can make you feel better.

00:23:19 ◼   ► USB branding.

00:23:20 ◼   ► - Yes, give me some of that sweet, sweet USB branding.

00:23:24 ◼   ► - If I know one thing about you is that you love

00:23:27 ◼   ► the branding from the USB consortium.

00:23:29 ◼   ► - I love me some good USB changes.

00:23:33 ◼   ► - And I am here to tell you that contrary

00:23:36 ◼   ► to every other previous attempt at branding USB specs,

00:23:41 ◼   ► they've actually done a good job Federico.

00:23:45 ◼   ► - Nah, get out of here.

00:23:46 ◼   ► - Super speed is gone.

00:23:48 ◼   ► No more super speed, no more USB super speed.

00:23:51 ◼   ► - Super gun, it's super gun, okay.

00:23:53 ◼   ► - Two by two by six by four USB super speed.

00:23:57 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:23:58 ◼   ► - There is now like two ways of categorizing USB.

00:24:02 ◼   ► So it's all like USB certified

00:24:05 ◼   ► and then there's a series of numbers

00:24:08 ◼   ► that actually equate to things that are helpful.

00:24:10 ◼   ► So for example, if you're just delivering data,

00:24:13 ◼   ► say over a connector or a cable,

00:24:16 ◼   ► it's USB 40 gigabits per second, 20, 10, five,

00:24:21 ◼   ► and that's the categorization.

00:24:22 ◼   ► - Wait, what?

00:24:23 ◼   ► - And they have specific logos for packaging of cables,

00:24:27 ◼   ► for ports and devices.

00:24:30 ◼   ► So you can, this is what they're suggesting

00:24:31 ◼   ► people print on them, but effectively saying,

00:24:34 ◼   ► these are the speeds of these and then when power is in the mix they have another one so it would be

00:24:40 ◼   ► like say for example USB 40 gigabits per second 60 watt or 240 watt so it actually feels like they

00:24:48 ◼   ► have tidied up the branding and made it much more logical than it was before. Who would have guessed

00:24:55 ◼   ► that actually telling people the specs of the cable was gonna be nicer than associating a random

00:25:04 ◼   ► adjective or other word with it. Who knew that it was gonna be so easy?

00:25:12 ◼   ► Rest in peace SuperSpeed USB 5 gigabits per second. We hardly knew you.

00:25:17 ◼   ► I'm gonna miss it. I'm gonna miss the 2x2 though. That was cool.

00:25:22 ◼   ► Yeah, that will miss forever. And I think it's been a busy time over there in the USB

00:25:28 ◼   ► consortium because the European Union have passed the USBC law.

00:25:33 ◼   ► "By the end of 2024, all mobile phones, tablets and cameras sold in the EU will have to be

00:25:41 ◼   ► equipped with a USB Type-C charging port. From Spring 2026, this obligation will extend to

00:25:47 ◼   ► laptops. The new law adopted by Plenary on Tuesday with 602 votes in favour, 13 against

00:25:57 ◼   ► than eight abstentions, I assume the abstentions these people didn't understand what they were

00:26:01 ◼   ► voting on, is part of a broader EU effort to reduce e-waste and to empower consumers to make

00:26:07 ◼   ► more sustainable choices. Exemptions will apply for devices that are too small to offer a USB-C

00:26:14 ◼   ► port such as smartwatches, health trackers and some sports equipment. Like heart rate monitors.

00:26:21 ◼   ► Yeah, like the one you steal, Myke.

00:26:23 ◼   ► No, no, no, no. Now look.

00:26:24 ◼   ► I have...

00:26:26 ◼   ► I have video footage of thieves.

00:26:27 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:26:28 ◼   ► Right? There's no video footage of me stealing anything.

00:26:31 ◼   ► I'm sure at the time you looked kind of like that.

00:26:34 ◼   ► You know, jumping over my bed.

00:26:35 ◼   ► Jumping over things?

00:26:36 ◼   ► To grab my heartbreak monitor.

00:26:39 ◼   ► I have a potentially controversial opinion about this stuff.

00:26:43 ◼   ► I don't think it's going to be controversial in this show, but carry on.

00:26:47 ◼   ► I've seen a lot of people on Twitter this week say,

00:26:51 ◼   ► I'm happy that we're gonna get USB-C on the iPhone,

00:26:55 ◼   ► but no, it shouldn't be the government or the EU to do this.

00:27:00 ◼   ► I'm kind of happy that it was.

00:27:02 ◼   ► - Me too.

00:27:04 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:27:05 ◼   ► - Yes, yes. - I think this is great.

00:27:06 ◼   ► Yes, I love it.

00:27:07 ◼   ► Go for it. - Yes, because some-

00:27:08 ◼   ► - I want someone to force these companies to do it.

00:27:11 ◼   ► - Yes, because otherwise they're never gonna do it.

00:27:14 ◼   ► Otherwise they just need a little slap on the hand

00:27:16 ◼   ► and be like, no, no, not you do this now because otherwise we try to tell you nicely. We try

00:27:24 ◼   ► to suggest you that you should do this and you didn't. Now you're just going to have

00:27:29 ◼   ► to do it because I mean, look again, whatever. This is the show for these kinds of opinions.

00:27:36 ◼   ► These companies, they do whatever they want. They come into Europe and they pay their taxes

00:27:40 ◼   ► in Ireland of all places. Like they already do whatever they want with the money that

00:27:44 ◼   ► they take from us. At the very least you gotta use a single damn cable instead of just all

00:27:52 ◼   ► the stuff you've been using over the years. Like at the very least you should be doing

00:27:56 ◼   ► this after you do whatever you please with your money over here. Now you just listen

00:28:01 ◼   ► to us and you use that cable. I think it's the right call. Yeah. I think it's great.

00:28:08 ◼   ► I don't really have a strong feeling about it, but I will say I think what the other

00:28:12 ◼   ► side is worried about is that yeah, it's great now. But does what happens if something after

00:28:19 ◼   ► USB C? And is this all going to slow down innovation further down the road? Like I said,

00:28:25 ◼   ► I don't really have feelings on either way. I want my iPhone to have USB C. And that's

00:28:30 ◼   ► if that's what this means, then that's great. But I can see why this sort of regulation

00:28:36 ◼   ► is good. But I can also see how it could be limiting in the future. But like y'all said,

00:28:41 ◼   ► companies haven't done it yet either I mean how many things are still running

00:28:44 ◼   ► around with micro USB like it's everywhere and also I don't want

00:28:49 ◼   ► lightning cables anymore I don't want them I don't want them I want to be able

00:28:54 ◼   ► to use USB C cables with my iPhone yeah I just that's what I want I don't want I

00:29:00 ◼   ► have to keep like remembering to pack that other cable yeah I'm done with it

00:29:05 ◼   ► now if we're gonna have a port on the thing put a USB C port on the thing

00:29:08 ◼   ► everything else in my life uses USB-C.

00:29:13 ◼   ► My Nintendo does, my Steam Deck does,

00:29:15 ◼   ► my iPad does, my MacBook does.

00:29:19 ◼   ► I mean, what else do I have over here?

00:29:22 ◼   ► I used like a remote a few days ago

00:29:26 ◼   ► that had a USB-C charging,

00:29:27 ◼   ► but like everything does except iPhone, AirPods,

00:29:32 ◼   ► and the Apple TV remote.

00:29:33 ◼   ► Like, stop, stop, stop.

00:29:37 ◼   ► And so the government had to force you, so be it.

00:29:40 ◼   ► Couldn't listen before.

00:29:43 ◼   ► - And Lightning was a great improvement over the 30-pin,

00:29:46 ◼   ► but it's been 10 years.

00:29:47 ◼   ► - And it was better than mini and micro USB, right?

00:29:50 ◼   ► Like at the time. - For sure.

00:29:51 ◼   ► - For sure.

00:29:52 ◼   ► - Yeah, this isn't about Lightning being a bad connector

00:29:55 ◼   ► because I think what made Lightning good,

00:29:57 ◼   ► all of those things are also present in USB-C, right?

00:30:00 ◼   ► It's small, it's reversible, it's pretty robust,

00:30:04 ◼   ► but the rest of the world,

00:30:05 ◼   ► including to your point Federico,

00:30:08 ◼   ► a lot of Apple's own ecosystem has moved to USB-C

00:30:13 ◼   ► and I don't know why the phone hasn't.

00:30:15 ◼   ► Is it the blowback that they're surely going to get

00:30:18 ◼   ► because everyone has lightning stuff everywhere?

00:30:21 ◼   ► - I mean, this is the best possible way

00:30:23 ◼   ► for them to have to do this if they're gonna do it

00:30:24 ◼   ► because now they can be like--

00:30:25 ◼   ► - Move to something that you're already using elsewhere,

00:30:28 ◼   ► right, that's the difference.

00:30:30 ◼   ► - No, 'cause they can say, hey, look, we had to do this,

00:30:33 ◼   ► we were forced to do this, you know?

00:30:36 ◼   ► - Yeah, blame Europe.

00:30:37 ◼   ► Some people in Discord were wondering like,

00:30:39 ◼   ► USB-C on cameras, and so I've experienced this recently

00:30:42 ◼   ► with my Sony camera that I got maybe six months ago,

00:30:47 ◼   ► has USB-C on it, and it means that you can transfer stuff

00:30:52 ◼   ► really easily with just like a USB-C cable,

00:30:54 ◼   ► and you could do it on older cameras with like,

00:30:56 ◼   ► again, micro USB or mini USB or something.

00:30:59 ◼   ► But again, it's just nice to have everything the same.

00:31:01 ◼   ► But what really excites me about it on the phone

00:31:04 ◼   ► in particular is something that we talked about,

00:31:06 ◼   ► I guess in the last "Rickeys" episode,

00:31:08 ◼   ► was file transfer speeds off the iPhone

00:31:11 ◼   ► are miserable over Lightning,

00:31:13 ◼   ► 'cause Lightning uses USB 2.0.

00:31:15 ◼   ► And you're shooting ProRes video,

00:31:18 ◼   ► you're taking raw photos, you know,

00:31:20 ◼   ► giant images, giant media files,

00:31:22 ◼   ► and there's no great way to get that stuff off the phone.

00:31:26 ◼   ► Right, I know our buddy Austin Evans has talked about this,

00:31:29 ◼   ► where he shoots a lot on iPhones.

00:31:31 ◼   ► is like you're air dropping it

00:31:32 ◼   ► or you're waiting forever in image capture,

00:31:34 ◼   ► like God forbid you're using iCloud photo

00:31:36 ◼   ► and in that sort of situation,

00:31:38 ◼   ► you're waiting on hundreds of gigabytes

00:31:39 ◼   ► to sync to iCloud and back.

00:31:41 ◼   ► It's such a bottleneck to what the iPhone could be

00:31:46 ◼   ► in terms of a creative tool.

00:31:47 ◼   ► And if they put USB-C super speed,

00:31:50 ◼   ► 40 gigabits or something in there,

00:31:52 ◼   ► it could be really nice.

00:31:54 ◼   ► And it turns the phone even more into a creative tool.

00:31:58 ◼   ► And that's another really exciting part about this for me,

00:32:01 ◼   ► that they could really kind of unlock the iPhone

00:32:05 ◼   ► as a true powerhouse in terms of media management.

00:32:10 ◼   ► 'Cause right now it's just a giant pain in the rear.

00:32:12 ◼   ► - I just want a back one, this cable, that's all.

00:32:15 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm.

00:32:16 ◼   ► Federico, there's a new beta of iPad OS 16.1.

00:32:21 ◼   ► Is stage manager fixed?

00:32:25 ◼   ► - This is a trick question.

00:32:26 ◼   ► No. It's getting better in the sense that in this latest beta it doesn't crash every few minutes for me anymore.

00:32:38 ◼   ► So that's good, right? It's not crashing.

00:32:42 ◼   ► You just paste it in Discord, an image that is very emblematic of the current state of things with Stage Manager.

00:32:50 ◼   ► because there continue to be all sorts of UI, layout, and keyboard issues with

00:33:00 ◼   ► Stage Manager. Today was the first day I was able to get regular work done with

00:33:08 ◼   ► Stage Manager. Now, you hear this sentence and you may react, "Oh, great! Now, Tichi

00:33:13 ◼   ► loves Stage Manager." The problem is that there's a bunch of asterisks that go

00:33:18 ◼   ► with that statement. I was able to work for a solid hour, stage manager, no crashes.

00:33:28 ◼   ► But boy was it challenging. First, I had to disable a bunch of settings

00:33:36 ◼   ► to make this possible. And I go in order. First of all, I disabled the strip of

00:33:44 ◼   ► recent apps on the left, because I continue to believe it takes up way too

00:33:50 ◼   ► much space that I can otherwise use for app windows, and you can always invoke it

00:33:56 ◼   ► if you want by swiping over the edge of the screen, so I think it's fine if I

00:34:00 ◼   ► hide it by default. Second, I hid the dock, and that's more related to a bug that

00:34:08 ◼   ► I'm still experiencing in Stage Manager. Ideally, I would like to see the dock all the time

00:34:15 ◼   ► at the bottom of the iPad. The problem is that whenever I drop an icon from Spotlight or the dock

00:34:27 ◼   ► or from the home screen or whatever, like whenever I use drag and drop to bring an icon into my workspace,

00:34:37 ◼   ► the app is automatically sized to cover the dock, to go over it, and therefore the dock gets hidden.

00:34:44 ◼   ► Yeah, why does it do that?

00:34:46 ◼   ► I don't know. The more I resize these windows, to be like, "No, no, just a inch above the dock, please."

00:34:54 ◼   ► It's like, "Oh, I want to be in stage manager mode." "Oh, no, no, you want full screen apps, right?"

00:34:58 ◼   ► "No, that's the thing I'm not doing!" It's very strange.

00:35:02 ◼   ► everything, the more I resize these apps and the more whenever I use drag and drop, they decide,

00:35:08 ◼   ► no, I just want to be a little taller. And so I decided, you know, I'm tired of this dance,

00:35:15 ◼   ► I'm just gonna hide the dock by default. And so, okay, I'm using effectively Stage Manager on an

00:35:21 ◼   ► empty canvas, right? Which is actually quite nice, don't get me wrong. I mean, I still don't

00:35:27 ◼   ► understand why the wallpaper gets blurred that much, but it's nice. I don't have any distractions.

00:35:35 ◼   ► I can work with this. There were more settings that I had to disable to make this workable right

00:35:42 ◼   ► now in this current version. I noticed last night that Stage Manager was not crashing anymore. Great.

00:35:50 ◼   ► the issue that we talked about last week, the issue of clicking windows and seeing no response,

00:35:58 ◼   ► that was also fixed. But I noticed an offspring of this bug, a new version of it, which was whenever

00:36:09 ◼   ► I opened a new window from the same app, so for example in Mail, I compose a new message that

00:36:18 ◼   ► opens a new window. In Notes, I open a note in a standalone window. That's another Notes window.

00:36:25 ◼   ► In Spring, the Twitter client, whenever I reply to a tweet, that opens a Compose window. Whenever

00:36:32 ◼   ► the same app opens a new window, the new window does not accept keyboard input.

00:36:37 ◼   ► Just, I couldn't type, I couldn't use keyboard shortcuts, couldn't do anything. And get this.

00:36:45 ◼   ► If I close the window, the secondary one, the primary one does what Steven pasted in

00:36:55 ◼   ► Discord, the thick window thing. Like, it glows larger and then it crashes. But it gets better.

00:37:07 ◼   ► It's amazing. What a bug.

00:37:09 ◼   ► I discovered today, and that's the reason why I was finally able to work with Stage Manager for an hour,

00:37:16 ◼   ► that all of this is gone if in Settings > General > Keyboard you disable two options,

00:37:27 ◼   ► Predictive and Shortcuts.

00:37:30 ◼   ► If you disable this, you don't have any keyboard issues anymore

00:37:35 ◼   ► with Stage Manager in iPadOS 16.1 beta,

00:37:39 ◼   ► whatever the number is.

00:37:40 ◼   ► - 17.

00:37:41 ◼   ► - 10, I believe it's 10.

00:37:43 ◼   ► - Why, oh, why?

00:37:44 ◼   ► - I don't know.

00:37:46 ◼   ► I've had issues with this.

00:37:47 ◼   ► - Is it something to do with the QuickType bar?

00:37:49 ◼   ► - Yes, it looks like that.

00:37:51 ◼   ► Looks like, whatever it is,

00:37:54 ◼   ► if you disable predictive and shortcuts,

00:37:57 ◼   ► the keyboard doesn't get "stuck"

00:37:59 ◼   ► for lack of a better term anymore.

00:38:01 ◼   ► So I was able to finally get some real work done

00:38:05 ◼   ► stage manager. I was on a Zoom call, I wrote a post for Mac Stories Weekly, I did some email,

00:38:10 ◼   ► you know, what my work is supposed to be. And it was... I'll tell you, it's nice when it works.

00:38:17 ◼   ► I still don't buy the overlapping windows thing, but using four things at the same time?

00:38:25 ◼   ► Nice. The problem is that, one, all those workarounds to make this possible,

00:38:33 ◼   ► they shouldn't be necessary, right? And second, there continue to be two main design-related

00:38:41 ◼   ► problems, in my opinion, with Stage Manager. Like, I'm not talking about performance, I'm talking

00:38:46 ◼   ► about actual decisions that were made by Apple. The first one, I want to be able to click an icon

00:38:51 ◼   ► in Spotlight or in the Dock. Just click it once and add it to my current workspace. On macOS,

00:39:00 ◼   ► This is possible. If you shift-click an app, instead of creating a workspace, it adds it to the current one.

00:39:07 ◼   ► Right now, the only way to do this is with drag and drop.

00:39:11 ◼   ► Which, like, are we back in the iOS 11 days when drag and drop was the only way?

00:39:18 ◼   ► Why can you not do what you did for the same feature on macOS?

00:39:25 ◼   ► let me shift-click a search result or an icon in the dock to add whatever I selected to my current

00:39:33 ◼   ► workspace. And the second problem, Stage Manager is fixated on this idea of creating new workspaces

00:39:42 ◼   ► for you all the time. Now, I don't know if this... actually, I don't know if this is a decision or a

00:39:48 ◼   ► bug, I can just tell you what happens. And what happens is, sometimes you command-tab to an app

00:39:56 ◼   ► that you know has windows open, like a bunch of windows open, and instead of taking you to the

00:40:03 ◼   ► last used window, it creates a new one. It creates an empty workspace with a new window, even though

00:40:09 ◼   ► you know that you have an existing window for that app. Other times, just today, and I posted

00:40:17 ◼   ► to the video on Twitter. I was in a workspace, a spring window with my Twitter client, Safari

00:40:24 ◼   ► next to it. I click a link in spring, and instead of opening a new tab in the Safari

00:40:32 ◼   ► window right next to it, it creates a new workspace with a new Safari window for that

00:40:39 ◼   ► link. And I don't understand why. If you do this with Split View, it doesn't do that.

00:40:46 ◼   ► The best part is, these are the best bugs,

00:40:50 ◼   ► because it only does it sometimes.

00:40:53 ◼   ► Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.

00:40:57 ◼   ► I feel like I'm losing my mind over here.

00:40:59 ◼   ► Document, like each week I come to you guys

00:41:03 ◼   ► and to connect to the connected listeners,

00:41:05 ◼   ► to the passionate ones.

00:41:07 ◼   ► It feels like I just went grocery shopping

00:41:10 ◼   ► for some fresh new bugs, and here you are.

00:41:13 ◼   ► Each week I deliver to you the latest bugs

00:41:16 ◼   ► about stage manager. Like I'm tired of doing this. I don't, I don't want to do this anymore.

00:41:23 ◼   ► I just want, I just want to work, man. I just want to get my work done. And instead each

00:41:28 ◼   ► week I'm like the bearer of bad news. Here I come with the fresh bugs. Here you go. Enjoy.

00:41:34 ◼   ► Now this week, unconnected, opening links in Safari. And what was the other one? The

00:41:40 ◼   ► thick window and the keyboard stuff like enough just please I just I don't want

00:41:47 ◼   ► to do this anymore we'll check back in next week yeah for some more fresh new

00:41:51 ◼   ► bugs for you real quick I just wanted to thank everybody we closed down our annual

00:41:57 ◼   ► st. Jude fundraiser on Monday just a couple of days ago and the final amount

00:42:02 ◼   ► totaled seven hundred and six thousand three hundred and ninety seven dollars

00:42:06 ◼   ► and ten cents, which is an all-time record for our campaign. Absolutely amazing. The

00:42:11 ◼   ► last few days people really showed up, and just thank you. It's a real honor to work

00:42:18 ◼   ► on this every year, and to see growth year over year in what is a pretty rough economy

00:42:24 ◼   ► for a lot of people was really exciting, and just a lot of fun and very humbling, so thank

00:42:30 ◼   ► you all. If you gave and you have donation rewards coming to you, emails will start coming

00:42:36 ◼   ► out relatively soon, so just keep an eye on your inbox. We are working on getting all

00:42:40 ◼   ► that put together, and you should be hearing more about that very soon.

00:42:44 ◼   ► Federico, can you say the number in Italian, please?

00:42:47 ◼   ► No, let me look. Where is the number?

00:42:50 ◼   ► It's in a document.

00:42:51 ◼   ► Okay. Yeah, I can. It's going to be a lot of words, I can tell you.

00:42:56 ◼   ► That's what I wanted.

00:42:58 ◼   ► I'm not used to reading numbers in Italian.

00:43:07 ◼   ► So who knows what you just said, you know?

00:43:09 ◼   ► Right now I'm at the point where, and Silvia makes fun of me constantly now, like she looks

00:43:16 ◼   ► at stuff that I write in Italian and she's like, what did you just write?

00:43:19 ◼   ► What is that?

00:43:20 ◼   ► That's not Italian.

00:43:21 ◼   ► Like, but this has become like, this problem has gotten worse over the years, much, much

00:43:26 ◼   ► worse and I've now reached the point where sometimes I say something in

00:43:30 ◼   ► Italian and I'm like, "Why, that sounds strange. Did I say it right?"

00:43:34 ◼   ► I'm in a very odd predicament with this stuff lately.

00:43:37 ◼   ► You're a fake Italian boy.

00:43:39 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is made possible by Capital One.

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00:44:58 ◼   ► Capital One, what's in your wallet?

00:45:00 ◼   ► - You got a choice now, really.

00:45:03 ◼   ► We can talk about AirPods Pro 2

00:45:06 ◼   ► or we can talk about Spark.

00:45:09 ◼   ► - I say we flip a coin.

00:45:11 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:45:11 ◼   ► Oh, someone has to do that though, right?

00:45:13 ◼   ► Yeah, like-- - Yeah.

00:45:14 ◼   ► - Yeah, I say you flip the coin.

00:45:15 ◼   ► - Okay.

00:45:16 ◼   ► We'll say heads for AirPods

00:45:18 ◼   ► 'cause they go in your head.

00:45:20 ◼   ► - Yeah, exactly.

00:45:21 ◼   ► - Oh, that's good.

00:45:22 ◼   ► - And then?

00:45:23 ◼   ► - Tails.

00:45:24 ◼   ► - Okay, tails.

00:45:25 ◼   ► - Of course, yeah.

00:45:26 ◼   ► - So we're gonna talk about AirPods Pro 2.

00:45:29 ◼   ► - Wait, no, it was tails, right?

00:45:31 ◼   ► So we're talking about Spark.

00:45:33 ◼   ► - Oh yeah, we're gonna talk about Spark, all right.

00:45:35 ◼   ► Okay.

00:45:36 ◼   ► Now, okay.

00:45:38 ◼   ► This is gonna be a certain kind of energy, I think,

00:45:42 ◼   ► coming to this conversation.

00:45:44 ◼   ► I feel like really I'm maybe the only of us

00:45:47 ◼   ► that's gonna feel so passionately about this?

00:45:50 ◼   ► - Yeah, I can tell you that I'm still on the old version.

00:45:52 ◼   ► So all the passion is coming from you.

00:45:55 ◼   ► - Yeah. - Yeah, okay.

00:45:57 ◼   ► - I wanna preface this by saying

00:45:59 ◼   ► that I am a long-term Spark user, this email app,

00:46:03 ◼   ► and I am a long-term paying team member of Spark.

00:46:08 ◼   ► So you'll see a lot of people,

00:46:10 ◼   ► a lot of the angst around the application at the moment,

00:46:15 ◼   ► Spark is an email app that just received an update.

00:46:17 ◼   ► It's like Spark 3 or whatever they're calling it.

00:46:20 ◼   ► A lot of angst is around that they've moved to having a subscription model

00:46:26 ◼   ► for everyone, but there is a free version still.

00:46:30 ◼   ► And the free version, people are frustrated by the fact that

00:46:33 ◼   ► it is adding a cent with Spark in the footer or whatever.

00:46:38 ◼   ► Now, also all this like that is what is frustrating people.

00:46:43 ◼   ► I don't care about any of that because I already pay.

00:46:46 ◼   ► Yeah, let me ask you this just real quickly.

00:46:48 ◼   ► I use mail.app, but how do y'all feel about leaving the sit with iPhone?

00:46:52 ◼   ► Oh, I would never know. Why? Why would I do that?

00:46:54 ◼   ► No, no.

00:46:55 ◼   ► See, I leave it because I feel like it's a hedge against egregious typos and emails like, oh, they send it from their phone.

00:47:03 ◼   ► No, just read your email again and use a real signature like a grown up man.

00:47:10 ◼   ► What is what is your signature? What is your email signature?

00:47:12 ◼   ► In my personal and my like 512 email, it's just my name and then my email address under it.

00:47:18 ◼   ► But my relay one, because sometimes it's like official business, I have Stephen Hackett,

00:47:23 ◼   ► co-founder relay FM and then my email address. So where does it say something of iPhone?

00:47:28 ◼   ► Well, on the iPhone, so I was looking on the Mac on the iPhone. I think it just says my name and

00:47:33 ◼   ► same with iPhone. Why do people put their email addresses in the signature? Like I already know

00:47:37 ◼   ► your email address. You sent me an email. So I do it on the Mac as a check that I'm

00:47:42 ◼   ► sending from the right email account because the little drop-down menu is

00:47:45 ◼   ► like easy to overlook. That makes sense. All right so I am a Spark customer, a

00:47:51 ◼   ► longtime Spark customer. They've done two things. One is a brand new Mac app, right?

00:47:56 ◼   ► And the brand new Mac app is like a whole thing and I'm using it because I

00:48:01 ◼   ► kind of want to get to, I want to give it its opportunity to show me what their point of view

00:48:09 ◼   ► is now. I'll get to whoever I think it makes sense to even have one in a minute but they believe they

00:48:16 ◼   ► have a way that I should be doing my email so I'm going to see what that's about and I'm putting it

00:48:23 ◼   ► through its paces and have been for the last couple of days right? But the thing that I don't understand

00:48:28 ◼   ► is they have a Mac app which is this whole new design and has all these new features

00:48:33 ◼   ► but the iOS app the visuals have not changed at all at all it just still looks like the old one

00:48:39 ◼   ► but they have a new smart mailbox kind of filtering system like the way they show you the email

00:48:45 ◼   ► but like the Mac app has this whole big new design they still offer the old Mac app I'm not really

00:48:51 ◼   ► sure why but they still do probably because they knew that people would be mad I don't understand

00:48:55 ◼   ► No one was pushing them to do this.

00:48:57 ◼   ► I don't know why they've only done it by half.

00:48:59 ◼   ► Right? This is what I don't understand.

00:49:01 ◼   ► Now, maybe people say, "Oh, they need a new business model."

00:49:04 ◼   ► They can have a new business model. They did not need to

00:49:07 ◼   ► do everything that they have done to have a new business model also.

00:49:11 ◼   ► They could just as easily give a few new features,

00:49:14 ◼   ► say we're a subscription app now, and move on with their lives.

00:49:17 ◼   ► But instead, the team at Spark, which is owned by Redo,

00:49:21 ◼   ► have decided that instead of just updating their email app with new features, they have

00:49:28 ◼   ► decided that there is now a new way of doing email and they are giving that to their existing

00:49:34 ◼   ► customer base. The most egregious of which is there is no longer an archive button. It

00:49:40 ◼   ► is now called "done" and it's a tick. Right? Now just fundamentally this frustrates me.

00:49:46 ◼   ► Do you want to know why? Because when you press "done" on an email, where does it go?

00:49:50 ◼   ► to the archive, which they still call archive.

00:49:53 ◼   ► - It doesn't go into done folder.

00:49:55 ◼   ► - No, it's like they didn't even complete the idea to it.

00:50:00 ◼   ► It's just half baked, right?

00:50:02 ◼   ► Like you, it's like, oh, we have this whole new way

00:50:04 ◼   ► of doing email and we want you to think differently

00:50:06 ◼   ► about email, so now when you're done with an email,

00:50:08 ◼   ► you just press done.

00:50:10 ◼   ► It's like, one, I don't like that, but two, okay,

00:50:12 ◼   ► let me see what you've got.

00:50:13 ◼   ► But then it just goes to the archive.

00:50:16 ◼   ► So it's still archiving.

00:50:18 ◼   ► You didn't change it in any real way?

00:50:20 ◼   ► So, so, so, okay.

00:50:23 ◼   ► Is it just like the same button but with a different name?

00:50:28 ◼   ► Like it still does what it's supposed to do, right?

00:50:31 ◼   ► Well it depends, right?

00:50:32 ◼   ► So it is the same, it's a different button with a different name, so it's a tick and

00:50:39 ◼   ► it says done.

00:50:40 ◼   ► I mean as long as it goes into the archive, like as long as it archives, you know.

00:50:46 ◼   ► However it doesn't always.

00:50:47 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:50:48 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:50:49 ◼   ► So IMA, they are responsible, but I have been in pay for SaneBox, right?

00:50:54 ◼   ► And so I have email that goes to the SaneLater and the SaneNews folder.

00:50:59 ◼   ► Yes, same here.

00:51:01 ◼   ► So they go there.

00:51:02 ◼   ► Now then when I go to those folders, I can look at those emails and I used to be able

00:51:07 ◼   ► to archive them, right?

00:51:08 ◼   ► Oh no.

00:51:09 ◼   ► By swiping.

00:51:10 ◼   ► So I use the swiping a lot, right?

00:51:12 ◼   ► They have changed their swipe to no longer be like archive or just done.

00:51:18 ◼   ► It's now done/not done.

00:51:20 ◼   ► I don't know why that's a thing.

00:51:22 ◼   ► So you swipe on an email and you can mark it as done or you mark it as not done.

00:51:27 ◼   ► So I'm assuming that their thing is like that you would swipe it if it's in the archive

00:51:31 ◼   ► and it would go back to the inbox.

00:51:33 ◼   ► But if you swipe an email that is in a folder as done, even if it's unread, it puts it in

00:51:39 ◼   ► the inbox now.

00:51:40 ◼   ► No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

00:51:41 ◼   ► - Oh no, no, no, no.

00:51:43 ◼   ► - Why, why would you do this?

00:51:45 ◼   ► Now I'm sure this is a bug, but like why?

00:51:49 ◼   ► And they've done this to the iPhone, right?

00:51:51 ◼   ► So the reason I'm using all of their features

00:51:54 ◼   ► as they have presented them to me now

00:51:56 ◼   ► is because they have a completely rendered

00:51:58 ◼   ► same box unusable.

00:52:00 ◼   ► So I have to have disabled same box,

00:52:02 ◼   ► which I've done at the moment.

00:52:03 ◼   ► And I'm like, okay, Spark, show me what you've got

00:52:06 ◼   ► when it comes to filtering my emails, right?

00:52:08 ◼   ► Into like newsletters and notifications.

00:52:11 ◼   ► They also do that.

00:52:12 ◼   ► So I'm like, well, I might as well try this now

00:52:14 ◼   ► because you have completely destroyed

00:52:15 ◼   ► my email filtering system.

00:52:17 ◼   ► Because I can't get rid of the email easily

00:52:22 ◼   ► without first moving it to the inbox

00:52:24 ◼   ► before then moving it to the archive,

00:52:26 ◼   ► which still exists as archive.

00:52:28 ◼   ► Right, so that's one part that I have.

00:52:32 ◼   ► The Mac app is like clearly their grand vision

00:52:36 ◼   ► and they're able to do this 'cause it's web technology.

00:52:39 ◼   ► So they're pushing it further.

00:52:41 ◼   ► They've also launched on Windows.

00:52:43 ◼   ► I will say, by and large, I don't care about that.

00:52:46 ◼   ► What it has actually done is made keyboard shortcuts

00:52:48 ◼   ► way better.

00:52:49 ◼   ► They now have a bunch of keyboard shortcuts

00:52:50 ◼   ► similar to Gmail.

00:52:52 ◼   ► So if I'm on an email and just press the R key,

00:52:54 ◼   ► I can start a reply.

00:52:55 ◼   ► That's cool.

00:52:56 ◼   ► Right, so because they've moved to some form of web

00:53:00 ◼   ► technologies, you can benefit from things like that, right?

00:53:03 ◼   ► But the Mac app-- now, I'm actually taking a diversion.

00:53:06 ◼   ► The Mac app has no permanent sidebar anymore.

00:53:09 ◼   ► Oh, no way, what?

00:53:10 ◼   ► And there's nothing you can do.

00:53:12 ◼   ► You can you can tap the sidebar and it overlaps over the windows or not.

00:53:16 ◼   ► It has no preview pane either.

00:53:19 ◼   ► What?

00:53:20 ◼   ► So you click an email, it opens the email, you do your thing

00:53:23 ◼   ► and you press back and you go back to the inbox.

00:53:25 ◼   ► There is no column views of any kind in the app.

00:53:29 ◼   ► Well...

00:53:30 ◼   ► This is in the Mac version.

00:53:32 ◼   ► Well, I mean, it's a lot like, hey, it's a lot like Gmail.

00:53:35 ◼   ► It reminds me of Superhuman.

00:53:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it's like all of these things.

00:53:38 ◼   ► I don't know why they are that way.

00:53:40 ◼   ► I don't know why they choose to be that way.

00:53:43 ◼   ► What I will say ultimately, like you say, "Oh, this reminds me of this," right?

00:53:47 ◼   ► Basically every single feature that Spark have implemented into their email app has

00:53:51 ◼   ► already been done somewhere else, including down to iconography.

00:53:56 ◼   ► So I'll come back to what I was going to talk about in a minute, but one thing they have

00:53:59 ◼   ► now is an email screening feature that they've called Gatekeeper, and email pops up and you

00:54:05 ◼   ► can either accept it or block the sender.

00:54:08 ◼   ► I actually do want this feature, that's fine, but like they've done a thumbs up and a thumbs

00:54:13 ◼   ► down, it looks just like hey, right, like it just 100% just looks like what he did.

00:54:17 ◼   ► And like, but look, email apps are built upon the shoulders of each other and they always

00:54:22 ◼   ► have been, right, like it's just one of those things where over time all of the apps have

00:54:27 ◼   ► borrowed features from each other, right, all going back to the greatest email app of

00:54:31 ◼   ► all time, Mailbox.

00:54:32 ◼   ► For some reason, every single feature from Mailbox has been redone except the ability

00:54:37 ◼   ► to freely move the email around. Why has nobody ever done this? I don't understand. Anyway,

00:54:44 ◼   ► they have a thing on the Mac app, which is a home screen, which is like, here's an inspirational

00:54:50 ◼   ► image and it's like, good morning. Good morning. Good morning. Their general idea is that they

00:54:58 ◼   ► by default will only let you access your email certain times of the day. This is my problem.

00:55:04 ◼   ► you have to override that.

00:55:06 ◼   ► It's like, come on, you're not my dad.

00:55:08 ◼   ► I don't need you to do this by default.

00:55:13 ◼   ► - I don't understand why.

00:55:14 ◼   ► Like I don't need my email client to be my life coach.

00:55:17 ◼   ► You are my email client.

00:55:20 ◼   ► - You do not need to do this.

00:55:22 ◼   ► Look, if I want to set this up

00:55:24 ◼   ► and you want to give me those features, fine.

00:55:28 ◼   ► But by default, no, that part immediately turned off

00:55:32 ◼   ► and it's very easy to turn off

00:55:33 ◼   ► and now I never see it.

00:55:34 ◼   ► So we'll give them a thumbs up on that,

00:55:36 ◼   ► of like that part, I can just jettison into the sun

00:55:40 ◼   ► and I never need to think about it again, right?

00:55:42 ◼   ► (laughing)

00:55:45 ◼   ► The Mac and iOS apps now could not look more different

00:55:48 ◼   ► from each other.

00:55:49 ◼   ► Like one, the Mac OS app has no dark mode,

00:55:53 ◼   ► which is just like, what are you doing?

00:55:55 ◼   ► You didn't even, like, did you even bother?

00:55:58 ◼   ► Like your old app has it.

00:56:00 ◼   ► Like this is like the thing of like,

00:56:02 ◼   ► I don't understand why they have chosen to do this part now,

00:56:06 ◼   ► considering they have done so little to the iOS app,

00:56:10 ◼   ► except add in the bare bones, like need to add this in

00:56:15 ◼   ► so it works with the overall system of like the gatekeeper

00:56:18 ◼   ► and I'll get to notification and newsletter filtering

00:56:21 ◼   ► in a minute.

00:56:21 ◼   ► Like they've added those in,

00:56:22 ◼   ► but they're like they look clunky in the iOS app

00:56:25 ◼   ► because like they're not really supposed to be there.

00:56:28 ◼   ► It's like I'm not fully sure why they decided

00:56:30 ◼   ► to just redesign one platform

00:56:32 ◼   ► and they still didn't do all of it.

00:56:35 ◼   ► And like, and it's super weird, right?

00:56:36 ◼   ► That you can turn all these features off,

00:56:39 ◼   ► like all of the stuff, you can just use it

00:56:41 ◼   ► like on the iOS and iPadOS or the Mac,

00:56:43 ◼   ► it's just like, this is just old school way,

00:56:45 ◼   ► but you still got it, like it's,

00:56:47 ◼   ► and you can't archive anymore,

00:56:48 ◼   ► you're still doing the done thing,

00:56:49 ◼   ► which I just find strange.

00:56:50 ◼   ► On the iOS app, it is nightmarish to recategorize an email.

00:56:55 ◼   ► So like they do the categorization, right?

00:56:59 ◼   ► like it's like personal, notification, and newsletter.

00:57:04 ◼   ► On the Mac app, you can like open this panel

00:57:12 ◼   ► that also reminds me of Hey,

00:57:13 ◼   ► where you can type in what you want to do with an email,

00:57:17 ◼   ► and it like gives you a bunch of options, right?

00:57:19 ◼   ► So like, let me just bring this up so you can,

00:57:21 ◼   ► I don't even remember how to do it.

00:57:24 ◼   ► There's so many, command center they call it.

00:57:26 ◼   ► So, and then you can like,

00:57:28 ◼   ► We have a bunch of keyboard shortcuts,

00:57:30 ◼   ► and there's a whole list of things you can do with an email,

00:57:32 ◼   ► but you can just start typing them in

00:57:34 ◼   ► and it will take you there.

00:57:35 ◼   ► And one of them is to just like, oh, this is an email,

00:57:37 ◼   ► change category to newsletter,

00:57:39 ◼   ► or change category to notification.

00:57:40 ◼   ► So that's pretty easy to do on the Mac version.

00:57:44 ◼   ► On the iOS app, you would not know how to do this

00:57:48 ◼   ► unless you used Spark so much like I do.

00:57:51 ◼   ► So currently, if you get an email that comes through

00:57:55 ◼   ► from a sender as a newsletter or a notification,

00:57:59 ◼   ► but you actually want to show in the inbox.

00:58:01 ◼   ► An example of this to me was Google security alerts,

00:58:04 ◼   ► like security alerts or whatever,

00:58:05 ◼   ► like two-factor code, say, some that might come by email.

00:58:09 ◼   ► You don't necessarily want those to be notifications

00:58:11 ◼   ► because they're hidden.

00:58:12 ◼   ► And if somebody's signed into my Gmail account,

00:58:14 ◼   ► I'd prefer it to show in the inbox.

00:58:17 ◼   ► You have to tap on the email, tap on the sender,

00:58:21 ◼   ► like the To field.

00:58:23 ◼   ► So you're tapping on your own name really,

00:58:25 ◼   ► but you're tapping on the two field.

00:58:27 ◼   ► And then there are these three buttons

00:58:28 ◼   ► under the name of the subject line.

00:58:31 ◼   ► One says people, one says notification,

00:58:33 ◼   ► one says newsletter.

00:58:35 ◼   ► Now, the reason this is so complicated

00:58:37 ◼   ► is 'cause Spark used to do all this sort of stuff

00:58:39 ◼   ► if you wanted it to, but it wasn't so important

00:58:41 ◼   ► and they didn't bother to change that in any way.

00:58:44 ◼   ► Like there is, in the Mac app,

00:58:48 ◼   ► you can change it via like these toolbar buttons

00:58:50 ◼   ► And the app kind of has these toolbar buttons on iOS

00:58:54 ◼   ► that are hidden behind three dots.

00:58:55 ◼   ► And you can tap the three dots,

00:58:56 ◼   ► and it will say to you, add to priority sender,

00:59:00 ◼   ► which is like a new thing that they have,

00:59:01 ◼   ► or it kind of pins those people at the top, like VIPs.

00:59:04 ◼   ► So they've added that button in,

00:59:06 ◼   ► but they haven't added,

00:59:07 ◼   ► and they've also added in the mute conversation button,

00:59:09 ◼   ► a block domain button, all good buttons.

00:59:12 ◼   ► A set aside button,

00:59:13 ◼   ► which is another thing they took from Hey, right?

00:59:15 ◼   ► Where you can like say, set this email aside

00:59:17 ◼   ► and it kind of just floats in the app, right?

00:59:19 ◼   ► is like a pinned kind of way to remind you.

00:59:22 ◼   ► So they've got all of that, but they haven't got the way

00:59:25 ◼   ► to re-categorize an email.

00:59:28 ◼   ► So they've added a bunch of buttons except this one button,

00:59:31 ◼   ► so you have to do this really weird work around

00:59:34 ◼   ► to get it to be able to actually re-categorize an email.

00:59:39 ◼   ► So let's talk about these categorizations.

00:59:41 ◼   ► So they have notifications and they have newsletters.

00:59:44 ◼   ► The way these are implemented on both platforms,

00:59:46 ◼   ► visually very different, but on both of them,

00:59:49 ◼   ► really confusing. So one thing that they do is like they kind of on the mac it's like

00:59:54 ◼   ► got its own little icon and it says newsletters and you get like an icon and like the name of the

00:59:59 ◼   ► sender so you they like collapse it basically so if you had like four newsletters they kind of stack

01:00:05 ◼   ► up like horizontally so you would see like newsletter one newsletter two newsletter three

01:00:10 ◼   ► so you at least have the names of the apps the emails that are in there on ios it shows just the

01:00:16 ◼   ► icon, the icon that they've chosen sometimes for that sender which might not

01:00:23 ◼   ► be really of anything that makes any sense. So like for example I have a relay

01:00:28 ◼   ► FM icon on my notifications well that was PayPal so that's not particularly

01:00:33 ◼   ► helpful, not particularly helpful for me but on the Mac it says PayPal right

01:00:39 ◼   ► because they've completely implemented the UI differently on both platforms but

01:00:44 ◼   ► So it does this categorization, right?

01:00:46 ◼   ► So it collects up emails for you that it's decided

01:00:49 ◼   ► or even use that as a notifications.

01:00:51 ◼   ► The issue is it moves around all the time.

01:00:54 ◼   ► So you have two options of where you can put it, right?

01:00:57 ◼   ► You can either pin these categories

01:01:00 ◼   ► to the bottom of the emails you've received today.

01:01:04 ◼   ► - Like in the inbox view or like in the emails themselves?

01:01:07 ◼   ► - So in the inbox view, they categorize things by today,

01:01:10 ◼   ► yesterday, last week, and then into months, right?

01:01:12 ◼   ► - Got it.

01:01:13 ◼   ► you can pin notifications and newsletters to the bottom of the email list that you've received today,

01:01:19 ◼   ► or you can choose them to be chronological based on when the last email in that category was received.

01:01:27 ◼   ► Both of these options are bad in their own individual ways. Allow me to explain.

01:01:34 ◼   ► The one that is just chronological, so every time a new newsletter comes in, right, means that consistently

01:01:40 ◼   ► throughout the day, the notifications and newsletters

01:01:43 ◼   ► will be reprioritizing itself as to where it believes

01:01:47 ◼   ► it should sit based on when the most recent notifications

01:01:51 ◼   ► come in.

01:01:52 ◼   ► But that doesn't necessarily mean

01:01:54 ◼   ► that this is the most important.

01:01:55 ◼   ► In fact, this whole category is supposed to suggest

01:01:58 ◼   ► that these emails are less important, right?

01:02:00 ◼   ► It's why they've taken them out of my inbox.

01:02:02 ◼   ► However, throughout the day, this may continue

01:02:05 ◼   ► to keep reappearing on the top of the list for me, right?

01:02:08 ◼   ► So that's just weird.

01:02:09 ◼   ► Seems like a bug more than anything else.

01:02:11 ◼   ► No, it's a choice, Stephen.

01:02:13 ◼   ► You choose.

01:02:15 ◼   ► So you've got inbox, groups, position in the list.

01:02:19 ◼   ► Stick to today or chronological.

01:02:21 ◼   ► This is the intended way that these are supposed to go.

01:02:26 ◼   ► But what's worse is to stick to today, right?

01:02:28 ◼   ► So if you choose stick to today, what will happen is, as new emails come in throughout

01:02:35 ◼   ► the day, they go above these notifications on newsletters, right? Until the day ticks

01:02:42 ◼   ► over. When the day ticks over, they're now at the top of your email inbox. So notifications

01:02:47 ◼   ► that could now be four days old take number one priority in your email inbox if you haven't

01:02:53 ◼   ► cleared them. Because they now, as soon as midnight ticks over, notifications will appear

01:02:59 ◼   ► above any emails received the previous day, no matter who they're from or their priority

01:03:04 ◼   ► But ultimately, these filters just move up and down in your inbox all the time.

01:03:11 ◼   ► Why do they not have fixed places inside of the app?

01:03:14 ◼   ► I know you don't like the sidebar anymore, but maybe there could just be like an icon

01:03:19 ◼   ► somewhere.

01:03:20 ◼   ► Or like give me that as a choice.

01:03:21 ◼   ► But like these two things, they're just like flying all over the place all the time.

01:03:26 ◼   ► Also, by default, I still get notifications for all of these things.

01:03:30 ◼   ► And if I get an email that comes in as a newsletter and I mark it as done from the email notification,

01:03:40 ◼   ► by and large when I open the app, it's still there as a new email inside of the notification.

01:03:46 ◼   ► And I don't, like section, I don't know why it's doing that.

01:03:49 ◼   ► That's a bug.

01:03:50 ◼   ► Similarly, I have, my email is out of sync on my Mac and on my iPhone.

01:03:55 ◼   ► Some emails that I mark as done, they don't remove from my inbox on one platform or the

01:03:59 ◼   ► other. These are bugs. The other things are just bad choices. Or like they categorize

01:04:04 ◼   ► wrong. So like I got an email from my credit card provider. On my iPad it was considered

01:04:10 ◼   ► a regular email. On my Mac it was considered a notification email.

01:04:14 ◼   ► So because you can get real payments done on an iPad.

01:04:17 ◼   ► Talking about the done, by the way. So like on iOS they replaced the archive button with

01:04:23 ◼   ► the done button. So it's this little tick instead of the archive thing. But on the Mac

01:04:28 ◼   ► have you look at an email top right hand corner they have a bunch of buttons that

01:04:32 ◼   ► you can press for it right you can mark it you can set asides mark as priority

01:04:37 ◼   ► mark as unread delete it or snooze it on the top right hand corner that's where

01:04:42 ◼   ► all the buttons are that's where the buttons have always been for spark there

01:04:45 ◼   ► was in the top right hand corner the done button arguably the most important

01:04:50 ◼   ► button for email is way smaller and it's on the top left hand side next to the

01:04:56 ◼   ► back button. Oh no, no, buttons shouldn't go there. I don't know why it's up there.

01:05:03 ◼   ► In top left hand corner you've got done and back and they're also in one like

01:05:09 ◼   ► circle button of a with a divider through the middle as if they do kind of

01:05:14 ◼   ► like one or the other thing. I don't understand why they've done that that's

01:05:17 ◼   ► just mad to me. I think that might be the end of my current list of grievances but

01:05:22 ◼   ► I have like it just an overall thing that I want to say like people might say

01:05:25 ◼   ► Like you can turn off some of these features, change app or whatever, but like I'm really ingrained in

01:05:30 ◼   ► Spark's sharing features and have been a paying customer for years now

01:05:34 ◼   ► And so like I'm kind of stuck for now unless I decide I want to completely blow up

01:05:40 ◼   ► My entire way of doing dealing with work email even more than they decided to do it for me

01:05:46 ◼   ► Which I will say I believe it is incredibly arrogant for a developer to think that they have a brand new take

01:05:51 ◼   ► For email and then force it on their existing user base

01:05:54 ◼   ► - Mm-hmm, especially when they're paying for it.

01:05:57 ◼   ► - If you decide you want to do this,

01:06:00 ◼   ► Redol, create a new service, right?

01:06:02 ◼   ► Because you've decided that you want to make,

01:06:06 ◼   ► like, oh, we don't believe that you should even use

01:06:09 ◼   ► the verbiage that literally everybody else uses.

01:06:11 ◼   ► We've decided it should change.

01:06:13 ◼   ► If you wanna give this a shot, fine, go give it a shot.

01:06:16 ◼   ► But like fundamentally reshaping things

01:06:19 ◼   ► for people that are used to the convention

01:06:21 ◼   ► of literally every other email app since Gmail was invented.

01:06:26 ◼   ► It's incredibly arrogant, especially when your first shot

01:06:30 ◼   ► at it is genuinely as bad as this update is.

01:06:32 ◼   ► That is the end of what I have to say about this.

01:06:35 ◼   ► I'm super upset about this, as you can tell, because

01:06:38 ◼   ► I don't know why they've done it.

01:06:40 ◼   ► I just can't I can't work it out.

01:06:42 ◼   ► There are so many things they could have done to make subscription money.

01:06:46 ◼   ► They didn't need to go this far.

01:06:49 ◼   ► The only thing I want to say, first of all, thank you, Myke.

01:06:52 ◼   ► I really enjoy the spiciness of all of this.

01:06:57 ◼   ► Just looking at the website for Spark,

01:07:00 ◼   ► I get this vibe from it of Spark now being this Silicon Valley

01:07:09 ◼   ► modern service that wants to make your life better.

01:07:14 ◼   ► And it's not just about doing email.

01:07:18 ◼   ► It's about a new way of working.

01:07:20 ◼   ► It's about refine your workflow, build better habits.

01:07:24 ◼   ► Like, I don't want you to tell me about my habits.

01:07:29 ◼   ► I don't need my email client to lecture me on my habits.

01:07:34 ◼   ► I need my email client like I need a screwdriver.

01:07:37 ◼   ► When I take you out of the box,

01:07:39 ◼   ► and you need to do your thing,

01:07:41 ◼   ► and then I close you or I put you back in the box

01:07:43 ◼   ► and you're done.

01:07:44 ◼   ► Like, this relationship between me and you, email client,

01:07:48 ◼   ► like it's a transaction.

01:07:49 ◼   ► I give you money, I give you my interactions,

01:07:52 ◼   ► you do your job.

01:07:53 ◼   ► There are no feelings here.

01:07:55 ◼   ► There are no lecturing, no habits, no like,

01:07:58 ◼   ► we're not friends.

01:08:00 ◼   ► And instead I get this vibe from this website,

01:08:02 ◼   ► like find your focus, love your email client.

01:08:07 ◼   ► And I mean, a pretty good tell from this website

01:08:11 ◼   ► is the fact that one of the demo emails that they show

01:08:14 ◼   ► is new NFT release as the subject line.

01:08:18 ◼   ► And that pretty much sums it up.

01:08:20 ◼   ► Like the kind of vibe they're going for.

01:08:23 ◼   ► And when I saw that I was like, yup, I get it now.

01:08:25 ◼   ► That's the vibe we're getting from this.

01:08:28 ◼   ► I understand your frustration, Myke.

01:08:30 ◼   ► And my takeaway from all of this is, you know,

01:08:34 ◼   ► I'm pretty glad I went back to Apple Mail months ago.

01:08:38 ◼   ► - I want to now.

01:08:39 ◼   ► Like I came to this realization,

01:08:41 ◼   ► like I think the only place I could be happy

01:08:44 ◼   ► is in a really simple email app now,

01:08:46 ◼   ► and Apple Mail's the simplest,

01:08:48 ◼   ► I have come to rely so much on the team sharing,

01:08:51 ◼   ► I don't know what I'm gonna do.

01:08:53 ◼   ► - Yeah, I get it.

01:08:54 ◼   ► - Right?

01:08:55 ◼   ► - Go back to plain old-fashioned forewording.

01:08:58 ◼   ► - Yeah, but then how do I have conversations in line?

01:09:01 ◼   ► That's such a massive thing for me.

01:09:03 ◼   ► - I know, I know.

01:09:04 ◼   ► - Now I have to start taking PDFs or screenshots

01:09:08 ◼   ► of email again and talking about them in Slack.

01:09:10 ◼   ► I just don't wanna do that.

01:09:12 ◼   ► But if this is the route they're going to go down,

01:09:15 ◼   ► I don't want to be in it.

01:09:17 ◼   ► I have been as much of a fan and have spoken as much as well

01:09:22 ◼   ► as I can about any email app as I have about Spark.

01:09:26 ◼   ► Their team sharing service, I have evangelized that,

01:09:29 ◼   ► because I think it's a fantastic thing that they did.

01:09:31 ◼   ► And they implemented it so well.

01:09:33 ◼   ► And it's been rock solid for the many years I've used it.

01:09:36 ◼   ► But I don't want this.

01:09:39 ◼   ► I don't want this.

01:09:40 ◼   ► And I have no problem with them doing this.

01:09:43 ◼   ► If they think that they want to create this,

01:09:45 ◼   ► we're going to look after you in our little garden of email.

01:09:49 ◼   ► They can make that if they want to,

01:09:51 ◼   ► but I don't want it to be this.

01:09:56 ◼   ► They should make a different thing that does that.

01:09:58 ◼   ► They should actually let me disable all of the stuff,

01:10:01 ◼   ► but I can't.

01:10:02 ◼   ► - The little garden of email, that's good.

01:10:04 ◼   ► (laughs)

01:10:05 ◼   ► Hello, Mr. Hurley, welcome to email.

01:10:08 ◼   ► Let us ask--

01:10:10 ◼   ► But this is it. Good morning. Let's check your inbox.

01:10:12 ◼   ► No, no, I just...

01:10:13 ◼   ► I already decided that when I opened the app.

01:10:15 ◼   ► You don't need to tell me that now we can check it together.

01:10:18 ◼   ► You don't need to hold my hand. I am a grown up.

01:10:21 ◼   ► This episode of Connected is brought to you by Sofa.

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01:12:32 ◼   ► thanks to sofa for the support of connected and relay FM hi there this is

01:12:40 ◼   ► future Steven editing this episode and we really didn't address it very well so

01:12:46 ◼   ► we recorded the interview with underscore before the rest of the show

01:12:49 ◼   ► and Federico couldn't make it due to like a scheduling conflict so Myke and I

01:12:53 ◼   ► spoke to Underscore and then we came back around and recorded the rest of the show.

01:12:58 ◼   ► It was very confusing live and very confusing in the edit, so I just wanted to clarify things.

01:13:03 ◼   ► But anyways, back to the show.

01:13:09 ◼   ► For this last segment of the show this week, we are joined by a very special guest.

01:13:14 ◼   ► Hello Underscore David Smith.

01:13:16 ◼   ► Hello, thank you for having me.

01:13:18 ◼   ► I'm trying to think of the last time you were on.

01:13:19 ◼   ► been a while. It's been too long, so thank you for for joining us. We won't talk to you about the

01:13:25 ◼   ► Apple Watch Ultra, but before we get there, I just need to know, how did you become such a good

01:13:29 ◼   ► vlogger? I was watching this video and I was so angry about how good it was. I think that's very

01:13:35 ◼   ► kind of you, is probably the first thing to say. It's definitely not something that I have a ton

01:13:39 ◼   ► of experience with. I've done a few little videos like this over the years where like I do a little

01:13:45 ◼   ► video for my wife or my parents or things like that. But I think I did a little bit of the

01:13:51 ◼   ► developing the skills there, but I think also I've just watched a lot of vlogs and I think

01:13:55 ◼   ► you kind of get a sense for what works and what doesn't and that. But yeah, it's like,

01:14:00 ◼   ► it is very much, this is a new skill for me that I'm developing.

01:14:04 ◼   ► Unbelievably to me, the last time Dave was on the show as like a guest like we have here,

01:14:12 ◼   ► not including the family feuds and stuff. Episode 45 in June of 2015. That doesn't seem possible.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Right? That seems wrong, but I don't know. Yeah, well the CMS is only as good as the data people

01:14:25 ◼   ► put in it, you know? That's what I say. Interesting. Okay, it's even me or you, right? Let's put that

01:14:31 ◼   ► data in so we'll find out later on if one of us was wrong. It's good to be back either way.

01:14:35 ◼   ► Yeah, so if you haven't read/watched Dave's Apple Watch Ultra review, you should go do that.

01:14:42 ◼   ► You took it out and hiked with it for several days. And there were several things I wanted

01:14:46 ◼   ► to touch on here. The first one is, Dave, what could you say to Myke Hurley to get him to buy

01:14:52 ◼   ► an Apple Watch Ultra? I mean, I think the biggest thing that I would get, I imagine would be like a

01:14:58 ◼   ► thing that would get Myke in the door with this, is the way it looks. That I think there are some

01:15:03 ◼   ► things that it does that are very cool and very fun from a "if you want to go out into the

01:15:07 ◼   ► wilderness" perspective. But I think just on the wrist, I love it. I think it looks great. I think

01:15:13 ◼   ► the titanium in orange is just gorgeous. And I think the size actually is an enhancement

01:15:20 ◼   ► to its fashionability rather than an attraction. And so I think those are the things that I think

01:15:26 ◼   ► as soon as one ever touches Myke's wrist, it is going to stay there. And it's just a question

01:15:30 ◼   ► of how long it is until he goes into a store or someone in his life happens to put one on him?

01:15:36 ◼   ► Well, let's hope that that doesn't happen because based on what you said,

01:15:40 ◼   ► if me and you met for lunch and you put it on my wrist, that now becomes my watch.

01:15:44 ◼   ► That's how you just described that. So I would look out if I was you.

01:15:50 ◼   ► Or I guess we're having lunch at an Apple store so I can have you try on one of their watches first.

01:15:53 ◼   ► Take packed lunches, go in some sandwiches, just sit down, watch a little presentation.

01:15:57 ◼   ► We can sit in the Grove.

01:15:58 ◼   ► I am not convinced of that.

01:16:02 ◼   ► So, all of the images that I've seen,

01:16:05 ◼   ► it looks way nicer than I expect.

01:16:08 ◼   ► And I understand what you mean about the fashionability aspect,

01:16:13 ◼   ► but my thing is, how would this be with a shirt with cuffs, right?

01:16:20 ◼   ► Like a long-sleeve shirt.

01:16:21 ◼   ► And I don't-- or like a nice suit jacket or something.

01:16:25 ◼   ► I'm not convinced that this watch would sit kindly under or around that kind of thing.

01:16:34 ◼   ► So I don't know.

01:16:35 ◼   ► >>

01:16:35 ◼   ► >>

01:16:42 ◼   ► Like my suspicion is if you put one of those like the brown metallic link or like the one

01:16:50 ◼   ► of the link bracelets or any of those kind of like, you know, fancy looking bands, I

01:16:54 ◼   ► think it would dress up pretty well.

01:16:56 ◼   ► And especially if you wore it crown in, which is the way that I tend to wear it.

01:16:59 ◼   ► >> TARADINO I can't do that.

01:17:00 ◼   ► >> BOWEN I think it's the best, but if you can't, I think that also classes it up a bit

01:17:05 ◼   ► under a shirt because then only a little bit is sticking out rather than like the crown

01:17:09 ◼   ► and all the other...

01:17:10 ◼   ► >> TARADINO But then the watch is upside down.

01:17:11 ◼   ► their buttons sticking out. If the crown is on the left the watch is upside down

01:17:15 ◼   ► and and I will go to my grave with that argument no one will convince me

01:17:20 ◼   ► otherwise. I don't think has to be that extreme can I just dial that back a little bit.

01:17:25 ◼   ► No no. I will die before I do this. I will die on this on this mountain like I will I will

01:17:32 ◼   ► unlike Dave who goes up mountains and doesn't die I will die on this this

01:17:36 ◼   ► mountain I know that the the phrase is hill but I figured considering we're

01:17:40 ◼   ► talking about the ultra, it should all convert to mountains rather than hills.

01:17:43 ◼   ► Yeah. Dave, what bands have you tried on the ultra?

01:17:47 ◼   ► Sure. So I have the Orange Alpine Loop was the band that I bought with it, which I think

01:17:53 ◼   ► is fantastic and works really well for just general use. And then I've tried it with all

01:17:58 ◼   ► of the other bands that I have at home. So I tried it with a braided solo loop, which

01:18:04 ◼   ► I think looks really nice, but I need to get a smaller sized solo loop because the watch

01:18:11 ◼   ► is physically taller, it means that the sizing doesn't fit my 45mm rated solo loop.

01:18:19 ◼   ► So it looks nice, but it's a little bit wobbly, which I don't particularly like.

01:18:23 ◼   ► And I've tried it with the sport loop and the sport band and the Nike sport band.

01:18:28 ◼   ► And I think it actually looks solid with all of those.

01:18:31 ◼   ► I think I really like the way that it's the like I have the look of it with the white

01:18:36 ◼   ► Sport band I think is my second favorite look compared after the orange Alpine loop

01:18:41 ◼   ► Like I think that's just such a classic kind of pairing of type like to take in the titanium and white just like really play off

01:18:49 ◼   ► Each other well, I think yeah, I picked up

01:18:51 ◼   ► I was just kind of poking around the Apple Store app and

01:18:54 ◼   ► They had the ocean band in white and stock at my local store

01:18:58 ◼   ► So I picked one up and I haven't switched back to the Alpine loop. The ocean band is sort of weird-looking

01:19:04 ◼   ► In yellow, I think it looks like a bunch of like macaroni noodles all taped together

01:19:09 ◼   ► but I like the white and the titanium a lot and the our friend David Sparks and they get a tweet about this or

01:19:16 ◼   ► I'll try to dig it up

01:19:19 ◼   ► but his he was like doing some stuff like around the house and in the yard and

01:19:23 ◼   ► his

01:19:25 ◼   ► Orange band is already like really

01:19:27 ◼   ► kind of dirty looking and you know you can clean them or whatever but it's

01:19:32 ◼   ► something to be aware of for any really any cloth or fabric band. David Sparks

01:19:39 ◼   ► working down in the mine? What's going on with this? He's in the content

01:19:43 ◼   ► mines you know chipping out tips for people. That must be. You can make your watch

01:19:47 ◼   ► real dirty. I thought that's wild but look but it's fabric though right like

01:19:52 ◼   ► that's the difference between this watch band and a lot of the other Apple watch

01:19:55 ◼   ► bands. This is a fabric band. But I think most people are used to some form of rubber

01:20:01 ◼   ► as their Apple Watch band, so this would be a surprise, I guess.

01:20:04 ◼   ► >> And I will say, I have put all of my fabric bands in the washing machine, just in one

01:20:10 ◼   ► of those little delicates bags, many times, and it works totally fine. They come out super

01:20:15 ◼   ► clean. So that's my solution to that problem, is if I was out working in the content mines

01:20:19 ◼   ► and came back with a dirty strap, I would just throw it in the laundry with my next

01:20:24 ◼   ► load and it would be fine.

01:20:25 ◼   ► I wonder if there is a knowledge base article on cleaning Apple Watch bands.

01:20:32 ◼   ► There is.

01:20:33 ◼   ► There is? Interesting.

01:20:35 ◼   ► There is. I have linked to it in the past, I think. I'm trying to find it now.

01:20:38 ◼   ► But it... there's several like cleaning ones.

01:20:41 ◼   ► Okay, here's one.

01:20:42 ◼   ► "Band care information for Apple Watch Ultra."

01:20:45 ◼   ► This is a specific...

01:20:46 ◼   ► Oh, look at this.

01:20:48 ◼   ► Okay, this is not related, but such...

01:20:49 ◼   ► talking about third-party accessory bands.

01:20:52 ◼   ► Some may interfere with the wrist detect feature interfere with compass may contain materials that cause skin sensitivities

01:20:59 ◼   ► They just want you to buy. Yeah, I love that. They're just like

01:21:01 ◼   ► That was the party bands. They might make your arm fall off. You want to watch out for those things?

01:21:06 ◼   ► Yeah, and there's some cleaning stuff in there. So, uh,

01:21:09 ◼   ► I have to take care. So yeah, don't don't use scary amazon bands. Um, but yeah, the ocean band is cool

01:21:16 ◼   ► I I like the white look a lot. I think it's one of the it's I look forward to seeing that one in person because yeah

01:21:21 ◼   ► In pictures it looked like macaroni, but if in person I imagine it could look a little

01:21:26 ◼   ► nicer.

01:21:27 ◼   ► All right, I have a question for the two of you.

01:21:28 ◼   ► I want to know your second impressions, right?

01:21:30 ◼   ► We had your first impression, Steven, we spoke about it on the show last week.

01:21:34 ◼   ► And I'm actually starting to think that Federico has some kind of problem with the Apple Watch

01:21:38 ◼   ► Ultra, right?

01:21:39 ◼   ► Like on last week's episode, he conveniently got robbed when we were talking about the

01:21:44 ◼   ► Apple Watch Ultra.

01:21:45 ◼   ► This week's episode, he's gone mysteriously, like he's mysteriously disappeared.

01:21:49 ◼   ► I think he has a problem with it, but we can maybe get on that another time.

01:21:53 ◼   ► Maybe he has one, doesn't want to talk about it.

01:21:55 ◼   ► I don't know.

01:21:56 ◼   ► I don't know what's going on with him.

01:21:57 ◼   ► But I want to know your second impressions, right?

01:22:00 ◼   ► You've had it for an extra week, both of you.

01:22:03 ◼   ► Is there anything that you have changed your mind on?

01:22:06 ◼   ► Is there anything that you prefer about the watch than you did last time you spoke about

01:22:11 ◼   ► it or is there anything that is more frustrating for you than it was previously?

01:22:18 ◼   ► anything changed with longer term use?

01:22:20 ◼   ► I think the only things that come to mind is, so I've definitely noticed that I,

01:22:25 ◼   ► I hold the watch slightly differently when I'm using, uh, the crown or the

01:22:30 ◼   ► side button now that because the action button is on the opposite side, like

01:22:34 ◼   ► sometimes you can accidentally bump into it.

01:22:35 ◼   ► And I found that I now like, because the screen is slightly raised up, I find

01:22:39 ◼   ► that I'm like putting my, uh, my index finger on essentially the raised edge

01:22:44 ◼   ► of the screen and I hold it there when I'm interacting with the other buttons.

01:22:48 ◼   ► rather than pressing on the opposing side of the watch, which was something that I didn't

01:22:53 ◼   ► do initially, but I've definitely now noticed that I started to do. I think I'm noticing that

01:23:00 ◼   ► I really don't care. It's like the battery life is now kind of a weird thing in practice where

01:23:05 ◼   ► I just don't charge my watch to full anymore. I just put it on the charger when I'm taking a

01:23:11 ◼   ► shower and that's all I need to do. And I have no idea what battery it is, but it just never runs

01:23:17 ◼   ► out anymore, whereas I feel like I would notice in normal use that periodically you'd get

01:23:22 ◼   ► the little buzz buzz on your wrist and it's like, "Hey, your watch is running low on

01:23:27 ◼   ► battery," but that never seems to happen anymore. So that's definitely a plus and

01:23:32 ◼   ► something that in my initial uses I was very focused on battery life, but in just normal

01:23:36 ◼   ► day-to-day, do an hour of exercise a day and otherwise just normal stuff and wearing it

01:23:41 ◼   ► overnight to sleep track.

01:23:43 ◼   ► It seems very much just like it's more than enough, and if you charge it at all during

01:23:48 ◼   ► the day, it'll probably be plenty to get you through the day.

01:23:54 ◼   ► I think the only thing that I'm noticing is that I definitely feel like the screen

01:23:57 ◼   ► is... the screen feels bigger than the software can take advantage of, and is definitely something

01:24:04 ◼   ► that I look at it and sometimes it feels like if you ever use an iPhone in the display zoomed

01:24:09 ◼   ► mode, where you can have a Pro Max, but have it pretend that your phone is actually just

01:24:18 ◼   ► a Pro, and it scales everything up, and it kind of feels like the Ultra has a little

01:24:22 ◼   ► bit of that feel to it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it makes it very glanceable,

01:24:27 ◼   ► but it definitely feels sometimes that I'm like, "Whoa, it's like this big screen,

01:24:30 ◼   ► but not like big data." So I think those are my kind of having used it a little bit

01:24:35 ◼   ► longer notes.

01:24:36 ◼   ► I agree with all of that in particular the software not taking advantage of the the bigger screen

01:24:42 ◼   ► It's like you could do so much more with it. I think the only thing I would add is that the size has become

01:24:48 ◼   ► Normalized for me some point over the last probably even the last like two or three days

01:24:53 ◼   ► I don't look down at it and think oh gosh, that's big

01:24:57 ◼   ► it's just like this is what my Apple watch looks like and I wore my series 7 the other night to sleep and

01:25:03 ◼   ► And I put it on, I was like, oh, this watch is teeny tiny and weirdly bubbly and like,

01:25:08 ◼   ► not flat.

01:25:09 ◼   ► And it's funny just how quickly you get used to what you wear every day.

01:25:14 ◼   ► But I've been, I've continued to be really happy with it.

01:25:17 ◼   ► And I think it's by far the best Apple Watch I've ever I've ever owned.

01:25:23 ◼   ► This is the thing I think I'm struggling to get my head around, right?

01:25:27 ◼   ► You know, I've consumed all the content, right?

01:25:30 ◼   ► I listened to you and David talk about it on Mac Power Users as well, Stephen.

01:25:34 ◼   ► Right? Like I'm hearing all these people talk about it.

01:25:36 ◼   ► I think like the thing that I'm struggling is it just because it's new and

01:25:39 ◼   ► different? Like, is that why everyone likes it? Cause it's new and different?

01:25:42 ◼   ► Because as you're saying, right,

01:25:43 ◼   ► the software's not really doing anything specific.

01:25:46 ◼   ► That a lot of the features that it's, that it does have,

01:25:50 ◼   ► realistically, most of us are never going to use or use very infrequently.

01:25:57 ◼   ► Is it the newness that makes it so enticing?

01:26:00 ◼   ► Like, I think I'm struggling to get my head around, like, why

01:26:03 ◼   ► everyone's so excited about it.

01:26:05 ◼   ► I think it makes me think a lot of the reality, like the way that

01:26:10 ◼   ► iPhone phone screen size kind of can hit differently for different

01:26:14 ◼   ► people, where like, you know, sort of like Plus Club or now like the Max

01:26:17 ◼   ► phones was, it's like, there is something that just like having a big, having a,

01:26:22 ◼   ► the big device can sometimes just be really nice and is very useful. And it isn't even

01:26:28 ◼   ► necessarily because it's not necessarily like an iPhone 14 Pro Max versus an iPhone

01:26:34 ◼   ► 14 Pro. It doesn't necessarily do that much more than one or the other. Functionally,

01:26:40 ◼   ► they're essentially the same, but there's something nice about having that big screen.

01:26:44 ◼   ► And that's the part that I think I'm settling into my like of it for the Ultra is that I

01:26:50 ◼   ► I just like this size of screen and it's essentially as big as could physically work

01:26:57 ◼   ► well on my wrist I think.

01:26:58 ◼   ► And so I don't expect Apple necessarily would make a bigger watch that I would like

01:27:02 ◼   ► more but this seems to hit right at that limit.

01:27:06 ◼   ► But because it's at that limit it's just perfect in terms of like it's just nice

01:27:10 ◼   ► having a big screen.

01:27:11 ◼   ► Like there's just something about big screens that is great.

01:27:14 ◼   ► One of the things that I love about the larger iPhone is I can get more on the display.

01:27:20 ◼   ► That's something that I've always valued.

01:27:22 ◼   ► There's more information on the display, but it feels like that's not really a thing with

01:27:29 ◼   ► the Ultra.

01:27:30 ◼   ► Just everything's bigger.

01:27:32 ◼   ► I don't ever use display zoom.

01:27:35 ◼   ► I will turn that off immediately.

01:27:36 ◼   ► I'll always change it to the minimum that I can.

01:27:39 ◼   ► On my Mac, I knock it down one.

01:27:41 ◼   ► I have dynamic type on the bottom setting on my iPhone.

01:27:46 ◼   ► I just like loads of information on a screen.

01:27:49 ◼   ► And that's one of the things that I value about a larger screen.

01:27:52 ◼   ► But from what you're both telling me, I wouldn't really be able to benefit from that very much

01:27:59 ◼   ► with watchOS on the Ultra.

01:28:00 ◼   ► And I need an example there, because I ran into when I was hiking with it.

01:28:04 ◼   ► I spent a lot of time with having a map on my watch.

01:28:07 ◼   ► And it was one of those things of like, I've done a lot of hiking with my 45mm watch, and

01:28:13 ◼   ► coming to this, having that little bit of extra size made a difference in having it

01:28:17 ◼   ► be a bit bigger.

01:28:18 ◼   ► And that was a case where my app was able to fully take advantage of the space because

01:28:22 ◼   ► I just went edge to edge and it fully stretched out.

01:28:25 ◼   ► And having that more information was nice, that rather than seeing just around myself,

01:28:30 ◼   ► I could see a bit more area.

01:28:32 ◼   ► And so, if software can take advantage of it, it definitely is a plus.

01:28:37 ◼   ► I think in the Workouts app you get an extra metric, which is nice I suppose, but maybe

01:28:41 ◼   ► not as transformative.

01:28:43 ◼   ► I think there's an element that, yeah, it's not fully manifested itself in terms of taking

01:28:48 ◼   ► advantage of the bigger size, but the bigger size just intrinsically is nice, and it makes

01:28:54 ◼   ► me look forward to when it does fully take advantage of it.

01:28:57 ◼   ► The only thing that really makes me want this is that it's a new design, because I am so

01:29:02 ◼   ► fed up of the way the Apple Watch looks.

01:29:05 ◼   ► I've just had enough of this very specific design language that hasn't changed.

01:29:11 ◼   ► They made them physically larger, but they look, you know, turn the screens off and all

01:29:16 ◼   ► of these things look ultimately the same.

01:29:18 ◼   ► They just have different materials.

01:29:20 ◼   ► This one is different and that is intriguing to me, but it's not different in the ways

01:29:25 ◼   ► that I want it to be still.

01:29:27 ◼   ► Right?

01:29:28 ◼   ► So like, I think that's one of the reasons that I haven't jumped on this.

01:29:32 ◼   ► where, you know, if you would have said to me like maybe a year ago like, "Oh they're

01:29:36 ◼   ► gonna release an Apple Watch that looks a lot different, like it has like a flat screen

01:29:41 ◼   ► and it has some like different dimensions and stuff." I'd be like, "Oh I'm interested

01:29:44 ◼   ► in that." But whilst I still look at it and I'm like, "That looks nice because it's new

01:29:49 ◼   ► and I think that that is interesting." It's still suffering from some of the things I

01:29:55 ◼   ► don't like about the Apple Watch design in general and why I kind of begrudgingly wear

01:29:59 ◼   ► I want most of the time. It hasn't changed in the ways that I want it to change. And

01:30:04 ◼   ► I have things that I think are reasonable and unreasonable. Like unreasonable, I want

01:30:09 ◼   ► a round Apple watch, but I just don't think I'm going to get that. And I think as we're

01:30:14 ◼   ► recording this, I think tomorrow Google have their event and they're expecting to announce

01:30:19 ◼   ► their watch, which is going to be round. And I'm like really intrigued to see how good

01:30:23 ◼   ► or bad the software support is for a round smartwatch again like now we'll see but like

01:30:30 ◼   ► you know things like flat sides and that kind of stuff is something that I think would be

01:30:34 ◼   ► interesting flat screen is interesting enough but then they made the crown massive so I

01:30:40 ◼   ► don't know I don't know but you guys don't have to sell me on it but this isn't what

01:30:44 ◼   ► this segment's all about like about selling me on the Apple watch well that's not what

01:30:48 ◼   ► you think it was about yes but I know that I have I have a selection of people in my

01:30:52 ◼   ► my life that are trying to get me to buy this watch. I'm not really sure why but

01:30:57 ◼   ► it seems like a coordinated effort like for example our friend Matt Alexander is

01:31:02 ◼   ► also keeps sending me messages telling me you're gonna buy one of these. He just

01:31:06 ◼   ► keeps sending me pictures and telling me I'm gonna buy one. So I don't know why.

01:31:09 ◼   ► Let's talk about the action button because I actually think this is

01:31:12 ◼   ► something that would probably annoy me because I don't because it's you know I

01:31:17 ◼   ► keep hearing people say like they can I can I accidentally set it off and I know

01:31:21 ◼   ► know, Dave, that you've had some issues with it. How are you feeling now about the

01:31:24 ◼   ► action button?

01:31:25 ◼   ► >> DAVE I think I still feel a bit frustrated by it.

01:31:29 ◼   ► I think for a long time I've thought that the Apple Watch could benefit from having

01:31:33 ◼   ► a button. That in terms of when I'm designing software, when I'm building all kinds of

01:31:37 ◼   ► different watch apps, I think sometimes you run into a situation where it's like, it

01:31:41 ◼   ► would be nice to be able to have the user do something but have them not have to tap

01:31:48 ◼   ► something on the screen, so both in contexts where the waterlock feature is enabled, or

01:31:52 ◼   ► even just in general, there is something where it's nice to be able to use the app without

01:31:56 ◼   ► looking at the screen, and you just need a button for that.

01:31:59 ◼   ► But I sort of see what Apple was going with, where you can assign, the user can control

01:32:06 ◼   ► what the button does, rather than software controlling what the button does.

01:32:11 ◼   ► But I think that choice now leads to a situation where it isn't actually as useful as it

01:32:18 ◼   ► would have been if it was just an extra input to WatchOS.

01:32:25 ◼   ► Because what happens now is, as a user, you choose what you want it to do.

01:32:30 ◼   ► I think the default actions seem to be things like opening the workouts app, or starting

01:32:34 ◼   ► a workout of a particular type, or turning on and off the flashlight, or those types

01:32:39 ◼   ► of things, which I sort of get, but it's like opening the workouts app, well I can just

01:32:46 ◼   ► tap on a complication to do that. It seems a bit strange that this giant button on the

01:32:52 ◼   ► side of the watch that has this very prominent capability and is this very singular thing

01:32:58 ◼   ► and I'm only going to use it as a launcher feels a bit empty in terms of it's not this

01:33:06 ◼   ► big thing that it could be. But what it means though is that as a developer or inside of

01:33:13 ◼   ► an app, the action that it takes when you push it is slightly undefined and varies depending

01:33:21 ◼   ► on how you've configured it and whether you've pressed it before. It creates this weird set

01:33:26 ◼   ► of ambiguity about what's going to happen when you push that button, which I don't really

01:33:31 ◼   ► like and I feel like would have been better served for it to just be an input in apps

01:33:38 ◼   ► that if you're in the workouts app and you hit it, it does something specific. Like it

01:33:42 ◼   ► either is starting a workout or if a workout is running, I think usually it drops a marker.

01:33:46 ◼   ► See, this is the wild part of this to me. It sometimes does one thing and then sometimes

01:33:52 ◼   ► does another thing. And I find that to be a very peculiar way of making that button

01:33:59 ◼   ► work.

01:34:00 ◼   ► It just feels weird to me, and I don't know if this is one of these things where in WatchOS

01:34:06 ◼   ► 10, I guess, it'll be different.

01:34:08 ◼   ► They'll change the way that the action button works, but in its current form, I think it's

01:34:14 ◼   ► at best a launcher, and at worst something that can cause confusion, or in my case it

01:34:20 ◼   ► kind of caused a lot of frustration because it did something that I, while I configured

01:34:24 ◼   ► it to do a certain thing, I didn't think that it would do that thing in a different

01:34:27 ◼   ► context, and so it ended up being that, in my case, it ended a workout prematurely, which

01:34:33 ◼   ► was just really frustrating to me.

01:34:35 ◼   ► Which is like, I told it to do that.

01:34:36 ◼   ► It was totally the way I had configured it to do it.

01:34:39 ◼   ► But it seems strange that because it's at this very high-level system that it overrides

01:34:45 ◼   ► everything rather than it being just part of the UI and part of the actual way that

01:34:55 ◼   ► the current running application is operating and there's just this extra input to it.

01:35:00 ◼   ► At least it could be an easy way to launch your custom watch faces that you make, you

01:35:04 ◼   ► know?

01:35:05 ◼   ► You could do that.

01:35:06 ◼   ► Yes.

01:35:07 ◼   ► And then you've got like the nice watch face button.

01:35:09 ◼   ► It is true.

01:35:10 ◼   ► So you could always press that and you know, this watch face could open.

01:35:12 ◼   ► Steven, have you configured the action button for anything yet?

01:35:16 ◼   ► Flashlight, baby.

01:35:17 ◼   ► But you're still like, flashlighting all the time?

01:35:18 ◼   ► All the time.

01:35:19 ◼   ► No, not all the time.

01:35:20 ◼   ► something that like that I think what if you accidentally hit it at night and

01:35:26 ◼   ► then the light you know the watch is all lit up I guess that's just not a concern

01:35:29 ◼   ► for you I don't know if the action button works in sleep mode or not I

01:35:33 ◼   ► don't haven't tried that I guess I could put it in sleep mode and see but I've

01:35:37 ◼   ► been sleep tracking with the series 7 because I find this ultra to be a little

01:35:41 ◼   ► big to sleep in I see you are still that may change to a time day watch night

01:35:44 ◼   ► watch that is like a consistent in your life right now all right I'm telling it

01:35:49 ◼   ► that I'm going to sleep.

01:35:50 ◼   ► Good night, Steven.

01:35:51 ◼   ► Sleep tight.

01:35:52 ◼   ► Don't let the bug bugs bed bugs bed bugs bite.

01:35:54 ◼   ► There you go.

01:35:55 ◼   ► We got it.

01:35:56 ◼   ► Yeah, it says press and hold crown to unlock.

01:35:59 ◼   ► So you have to unlock it before you do it, which is probably good.

01:36:03 ◼   ► Do you have any automations tied to sleep mode?

01:36:05 ◼   ► Because like you may have just ruined every one of your devices, you know, like they're

01:36:08 ◼   ► all just gone wild.

01:36:09 ◼   ► No, it just it sets my lock screen and home screen basically to black with a couple of

01:36:15 ◼   ► widgets that I want and then puts my watch in sleep mode.

01:36:18 ◼   ► But I use this app, I don't know if you all have heard of this app, it's called Sleep++.

01:36:21 ◼   ► Some guy makes it.

01:36:22 ◼   ► That's what I use for my sleep tracking.

01:36:23 ◼   ► It's a French app.

01:36:24 ◼   ► I think it's a French app.

01:36:26 ◼   ► BLEUCE BLEUCE.

01:36:27 ◼   ► Sleep BLEUCE BLEUCE.

01:36:28 ◼   ► One last question from me underscore.

01:36:31 ◼   ► In looking at the watch line now, in some ways it's more unified than ever.

01:36:36 ◼   ► The Series 3 is gone finally.

01:36:39 ◼   ► You have the SE2, the 8, and now the Ultra.

01:36:43 ◼   ► But the Ultra does have a lot of these features, like the action button, that aren't present

01:36:48 ◼   ► on the other watches.

01:36:50 ◼   ► If you could pick one feature from the Ultra and sort of wave your wand and make it appear

01:36:55 ◼   ► on maybe the SE3 and the Series 9 this time next year, what would you want those kind

01:37:02 ◼   ► of mainline watches to pick up from this new high-end one?

01:37:05 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, I think that's a tricky question.

01:37:09 ◼   ► Because a lot of what makes the Ultra good are things—it's like, I love the durability

01:37:16 ◼   ► of the Ultra, which in terms of like, as far as I can tell, it's indestructible.

01:37:21 ◼   ► And that is lovely, and it would be lovely for that to come down to the other watches.

01:37:24 ◼   ► Like I actually just, you know, it's like the number of—because people sometimes break

01:37:28 ◼   ► the other watches, I've heard.

01:37:31 ◼   ► And so—

01:37:32 ◼   ► >> MATT PORTER, Ph.D. I don't—that's fake news.

01:37:33 ◼   ► >> STEVEN SCOTT, Ph.D. Fake news, yeah.

01:37:34 ◼   ► I mean, especially not bike riding.

01:37:36 ◼   ► So that's a feature that I would love all the watches to gain, that this screen, like

01:37:41 ◼   ► when it was just wild I was watching some, you know, the classic thing where the YouTubers

01:37:44 ◼   ► try and break things, videos, and usually I find them a little bit frustrating, but

01:37:49 ◼   ► I was really curious to see where the Ultra would go.

01:37:52 ◼   ► And it was just like, this watch is indestructible, as far as I can tell.

01:37:55 ◼   ► Like in normal use, it's going to be amazing.

01:37:57 ◼   ► And so that would be great if that went to two other watches.

01:38:01 ◼   ► I think certainly obviously increasing battery life would be a good thing for them.

01:38:04 ◼   ► I think the siren is actually kind of one of those features that I feel like we're

01:38:09 ◼   ► going to get the Dear Tim videos in a year or two of situations where the sirens actually

01:38:14 ◼   ► really save people's lives and help them be found in a way that is super cool. I think

01:38:21 ◼   ► the siren app might exist on the other watches, but the speakers aren't quite as loud. So

01:38:27 ◼   ► that's a feature that I think would be nice to come down there. I think the action button

01:38:31 ◼   ► in its current form doesn't...

01:38:34 ◼   ► I think it would be nice if it came to the other watches and then that was part of a

01:38:38 ◼   ► broader rethinking in watchOS 10, that it's integrating more directly into the OS in a

01:38:45 ◼   ► way that I feel like makes more sense.

01:38:46 ◼   ► And if it does, then I think that would be really cool as a thing that elevates what's

01:38:51 ◼   ► possible or what watchOS 10 is capable of, if it took the action button there.

01:38:56 ◼   ► But I think otherwise, it's like in its current mode, it's like I don't love it enough for

01:39:03 ◼   ► it to be something that I would really care to make sure it's pushed out to the rest of

01:39:08 ◼   ► the line.

01:39:09 ◼   ► But if it becomes an essential part of using watchOS, then absolutely that would be amazing,

01:39:13 ◼   ► and sooner rather than later, because it seems like watches sometimes linger much longer

01:39:18 ◼   ► than we would like them to.

01:39:19 ◼   ► >> MATT PORTER, Ph.D. There is no siren on the other watches.

01:39:22 ◼   ► I took a quick look that siren's only on the fancy watch because regular watch users don't

01:39:28 ◼   ► get lost.

01:39:29 ◼   ► I think out of all the features, the siren is what I would like to see.

01:39:32 ◼   ► And honestly, like that should be on the phone too.

01:39:35 ◼   ► Like Apple's push into personal safety, both in hardware and software is really, it's really

01:39:41 ◼   ► encouraging.

01:39:42 ◼   ► I mean, it's sad that we need this sorts of things in some instances, but I would like

01:39:47 ◼   ► to see the siren be basically anywhere they could put it.

01:39:51 ◼   ► like the car crash detection, right? That showed up everywhere. And again, something

01:39:55 ◼   ► hopefully you never need, but if you need it, you want it there. And for me, the siren

01:40:00 ◼   ► falls in the same list.

01:40:01 ◼   ► Yeah, and it feels like an easy add to the iPhone, because if you, you're just in the

01:40:05 ◼   ► same, you know, if you long press on the side button and volume up, where it brings up the

01:40:09 ◼   ► like, you know, SOS call and the, it does the like touch ID lock and all those kind

01:40:14 ◼   ► of things, like having a button there that you push and it makes a lot of, makes your

01:40:18 ◼   ► phone make a lot of noise, seems like a perfect fit.

01:40:21 ◼   ► >> MATT: It is good that we have these safety features, but it is a little dystopian too.

01:40:25 ◼   ► I feel like the technology company is there to save your life. It's just weird. There's

01:40:31 ◼   ► a weird feeling to it too. Look, if I ever need them, I'll be happy I have them. But

01:40:36 ◼   ► there is this kind of a strange feeling to it too, I think.

01:40:39 ◼   ► >> COREY Yeah, and I think it's always hard to market and have a feature that your users

01:40:45 ◼   ► actively don't want to use but are glad that it's there. Like, I really hope that I never

01:40:50 ◼   ► have to, like, you know, make an SOS satellite call or have to activate my siren because

01:40:56 ◼   ► I'm hurt or in danger in some way. Like, I really hope I never use those, but it's like,

01:41:02 ◼   ► I certainly appreciate that they're there.

01:41:03 ◼   ► Thank you for joining us today, Dave. If people aren't running your magnificent widget smith

01:41:10 ◼   ► all over the place, they should go do that, but where else can people find you?

01:41:15 ◼   ► I'm on Twitter @_DavidSmith or David-Smith.org, that's where I do my writing, and apparently

01:41:21 ◼   ► now doing, you know, post my videos too.

01:41:23 ◼   ► Vlogging! He's a vlogger!

01:41:25 ◼   ► He's a vlogger! Thanks, Dave. Well, I think that about does it for this week. Welcome

01:41:32 ◼   ► back, Federico. We're done talking about the Ultra.

01:41:34 ◼   ► Yeah, thank you. Okay.

01:41:36 ◼   ► If you want to find links to the stuff we spoke about, head on over to the website relay.fm/connected/418.

01:41:44 ◼   ► While you're there, you can send us an email with feedback or follow up, or you can join

01:41:49 ◼   ► and get connected pro that's a longer ad free version of the show each and every week.

01:41:55 ◼   ► This week, we made a bunch of artwork with Dolly and it was an adventure.

01:42:00 ◼   ► So go go check that out.

01:42:01 ◼   ► I think it's fair to say we recreated with Dolly.

01:42:05 ◼   ► We did. Yes. And actually you haven't heard it yet because it's at the end of the episode

01:42:09 ◼   ► this week. It's all very confusing this week. Timelines don't make sense. You can find us

01:42:15 ◼   ► all on what's left of Twitter. You can find Federico Therez Vittici, V I T I C C I. He

01:42:20 ◼   ► is the editor in chief of MacStories.net. You can find Myke online as I M Y K E and

01:42:27 ◼   ► Myke hosts a bunch of shows here on Relay FM. You can follow me on Twitter as ISMH and

01:42:33 ◼   ► I host Mac power users here on the network as well.

01:42:36 ◼   ► I didn't think our sponsors this week, Squarespace, Capital One and sofa.

01:42:41 ◼   ► And until next time guys say goodbye.

01:42:43 ◼   ► I do that too.

01:42:44 ◼   ► Cheerio.