Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► Welcome to Under the Radar, a show about independent iOS app development.

00:00:03 ◼   ► I'm Mark Guarmant.

00:00:04 ◼   ► And I'm David Smith.

00:00:06 ◼   ► Under the Radar is never longer than 30 minutes, so let's get started.

00:00:09 ◼   ► This week we wanted to talk about creating or setting up a second location.

00:00:15 ◼   ► And this is, this could be a lot of things for your work.

00:00:17 ◼   ► It could be having like a, just like a travel setup that you have in a backpack and you

00:00:22 ◼   ► bring to coffee shops or that you travel, you know, when you're traveling you could

00:00:26 ◼   ► take it with you to get your work done on the go.

00:00:29 ◼   ► This could be having an office outside of the home that you, you know, rent or something.

00:00:33 ◼   ► It could even be like if you're still, you know, working for somebody else, obviously,

00:00:37 ◼   ► it could be you're set up at work versus you're set up at home.

00:00:40 ◼   ► And then other kind of offshoots of having a second location.

00:00:44 ◼   ► So for instance, if you're setting up a vacation home and you want to be able to work in a

00:00:48 ◼   ► vacation home or at your parents' house or something like that, you know, some kind

00:00:52 ◼   ► of second location setup, why you would do such a thing, what that might entail and some

00:00:58 ◼   ► considerations that you might have for how you set that up.

00:01:02 ◼   ► And there's, you know, getting into just the, a brief overview of why you would want

00:01:06 ◼   ► to set something like this up.

00:01:07 ◼   ► You know, a lot of people just don't have good space or conditions at home to do the

00:01:14 ◼   ► kind of work they have to or want to do.

00:01:17 ◼   ► And you know, this could be very basic things.

00:01:19 ◼   ► Like maybe your house is too loud.

00:01:21 ◼   ► You know, if you have like, you know, a lot of people, especially if you have young children,

00:01:25 ◼   ► like your house just might be too loud to do things like record a podcast or have phone

00:01:29 ◼   ► calls with people or things like, or have meetings with people, things like that.

00:01:34 ◼   ► You also might be too loud for your home.

00:01:37 ◼   ► Like if the kind of work you do would be really annoying or problematic to the other residents

00:01:42 ◼   ► of your home, then you should leave to give them their home back.

00:01:46 ◼   ► So that, you know, that the loudness and things that go actually goes both ways.

00:01:49 ◼   ► There's also lots of other possible problems like if you just don't have enough space to

00:01:55 ◼   ► put like a desk and a computer set up and like, you know, a lot of people live in small

00:01:59 ◼   ► apartments and they, you know, they just don't have an extra room to, you know, to put this

00:02:03 ◼   ► stuff in.

00:02:06 ◼   ► And or, you know, you might just be too distracted by being at home.

00:02:10 ◼   ► You know, I have this problem all the time where when you're at home, it's really hard

00:02:15 ◼   ► to draw those lines between what is work?

00:02:18 ◼   ► When are you at work?

00:02:19 ◼   ► And it's really easy in the middle of the day to be like, well, I really, you know,

00:02:22 ◼   ► I want to go grocery shopping now because the store is going to be less crowded now

00:02:26 ◼   ► than if I go later and there's going to be less traffic in the middle of the day.

00:02:29 ◼   ► You know, it's like, or like, you know, something's happening with the family and you want to

00:02:33 ◼   ► be a part of it or you want to help out.

00:02:36 ◼   ► Whether your help is necessary or not, you might still want to help with things around

00:02:39 ◼   ► the house.

00:02:40 ◼   ► And, and so there's, there's lots of considerations for distractions and just physical conditions

00:02:45 ◼   ► and ambient conditions where a lot of people just need a separate space.

00:02:52 ◼   ► It even could be something like if you're trying to get into video, like setting up

00:02:56 ◼   ► a video, a place to shoot video, like that's, if you're going to be doing that a lot, what

00:03:00 ◼   ► you really want is a basically like a permanent setup because it's a lot of overhead to like

00:03:04 ◼   ► set it up, tear down every day.

00:03:06 ◼   ► And if you're going to be shooting video, not only do you need a space that is visually

00:03:11 ◼   ► acceptable as a video set, but also that stuff is big and it takes a lot of space and you

00:03:18 ◼   ► know, you just might not have that.

00:03:20 ◼   ► So there's lots of different kinds of work people like us could be doing.

00:03:23 ◼   ► And for a lot of it, you really benefit from having a dedicated space.

00:03:28 ◼   ► And for a lot of people, that space is, you know, might not be able to be in their house.

00:03:32 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:03:33 ◼   ► And I think too, it's also something how I know from my own experience, sometimes changing

00:03:39 ◼   ► location can sometimes be very beneficial to productivity.

00:03:44 ◼   ► It can also do nothing, which I've also had that experience, but there have certainly

00:03:48 ◼   ► been times in my, in my working life where there is something just useful about going

00:03:55 ◼   ► somewhere else.

00:03:56 ◼   ► You know, for a while I rented an office space outside of my home.

00:04:00 ◼   ► I had a dedicated office.

00:04:03 ◼   ► I did the like, you know, rent an office within a bigger office suite thing for a while.

00:04:07 ◼   ► And so there's definitely something like as much as I enjoyed at my current setup where

00:04:14 ◼   ► I work, you know, primarily in my basement, there is something compelling and sort of

00:04:19 ◼   ► interesting about going somewhere to work and having that time in between that there's

00:04:27 ◼   ► a fit that you know, in a weird way, I like everyone always complains about their commute,

00:04:32 ◼   ► but I feel like there's a useful tool to sort of cue your body into your mind into saying,

00:04:38 ◼   ► I'm going to go and do something and the cost of doing that thing is, is tangible.

00:04:45 ◼   ► You can feel that like, okay, I'm going to go and spend 10 minutes to go to this place

00:04:49 ◼   ► so that I can work.

00:04:50 ◼   ► And so then getting there, at least for myself, it's a little bit of a trick.

00:04:54 ◼   ► It's a little bit of a thing that helps me, would help me get into it.

00:04:59 ◼   ► Because I felt like, you know, I had to make sure I was making use of that, that, you know,

00:05:03 ◼   ► it's like, it's like going, it would feel very silly, you know, to go to rent an office

00:05:08 ◼   ► to do drive 10 minutes to go to it, go, you know, go in there, get set up, sit down, and

00:05:14 ◼   ► then goof off all day.

00:05:16 ◼   ► Like it would feel really pointless and you like, why am I just at home?

00:05:19 ◼   ► Like there is something compelling about doing that.

00:05:23 ◼   ► I mean, I've also had it go the other way where, you know, for a while I heard people

00:05:28 ◼   ► talk about going to coffee shops.

00:05:29 ◼   ► It's like the great place to work.

00:05:30 ◼   ► And that's where they did all their great work.

00:05:32 ◼   ► And I would go to a place like that.

00:05:34 ◼   ► And I personally would find that I could never get anything done.

00:05:36 ◼   ► Like it was so hard for me to concentrate in that environment.

00:05:40 ◼   ► And I know that's just like, some people love it, some people hate it.

00:05:42 ◼   ► And I'm on the, it just does, it is completely not productive.

00:05:45 ◼   ► But there is, you know, there is something about having a, it's like creating a dedicated

00:05:52 ◼   ► space in general is I think a good thing, whether that be in your home or not.

00:05:57 ◼   ► And if you can't do it in your home, or even if you have one in your home, having a alternative

00:06:02 ◼   ► or different place is interesting.

00:06:05 ◼   ► And I'm reminded of, if you are a listener of the Cortex podcast, which you definitely

00:06:10 ◼   ► should be, they often talk, CGP Grey on that will often talk about, for some of his, you

00:06:16 ◼   ► know, when he's working, doing a extensive bit of work, he will actually even go to a

00:06:21 ◼   ► different location.

00:06:22 ◼   ► He will go to a different city almost on a working vacation, even though it's just him.

00:06:29 ◼   ► And it's an interesting thing that I've often kind of wondered how that would work in practice

00:06:33 ◼   ► as a developer, where kind of having, I've never actually done it, but I've been intrigued

00:06:38 ◼   ► by the thought of like, going on a kind of the equivalent of a writing retreat that if

00:06:42 ◼   ► I was, you know, writing a novel, you could imagine, you know, going out to a cabin and

00:06:47 ◼   ► having a time where it's like, I'm going to spend a, you know, spend a week, spend three

00:06:50 ◼   ► days, doing something, you know, dedicated 100% on something and having no sense of being

00:06:57 ◼   ► torn between two worlds and having, allowing your mind to entirely focus on whatever that

00:07:04 ◼   ► problem is you're trying to solve.

00:07:05 ◼   ► Like that's interesting.

00:07:06 ◼   ► And I think it's definitely one of these tools where I don't think it, it's not universally

00:07:12 ◼   ► going to, it's not going to sound a magic bullet that's going to solve problems with

00:07:15 ◼   ► productivity, but it is a really interesting and useful tool to, you know, to either trick

00:07:22 ◼   ► your brain into working harder, to just have something different.

00:07:26 ◼   ► And sometimes difference is just what you need to not fit, you know, to get out of a

00:07:30 ◼   ► rut.

00:07:31 ◼   ► Like I know, even just in development, often I will kind of get the equivalent of like

00:07:35 ◼   ► writer's block where, you know, you often hear these things with writers where you can

00:07:40 ◼   ► hit a point where for no obvious reason, it's just really hard to be productive.

00:07:45 ◼   ► And you know, changing location, having a second location, setting something up like

00:07:49 ◼   ► that, it just gives you an opportunity to try that.

00:07:52 ◼   ► And if it works, awesome.

00:07:53 ◼   ► Like that was a really low, you know, sort of low cost typically way to change, you know,

00:07:59 ◼   ► to get over that problem.

00:08:00 ◼   ► And so it's certainly something to keep in the back of your mind, I suppose.

00:08:03 ◼   ► Yeah, I mean, in a lot of ways, like, you know, a lot of these things are to create

00:08:09 ◼   ► artificial separations and artificial restrictions to help, you know, like me, for instance,

00:08:14 ◼   ► I have very bad self control.

00:08:17 ◼   ► And you know, if there's other things for me to be doing that sound interesting or,

00:08:22 ◼   ► you know, give my brain a little hit of whatever the, you know, the satisfaction of like, you

00:08:27 ◼   ► know, Oh, let me see.

00:08:28 ◼   ► Oh, I have a new message on Twitter.

00:08:29 ◼   ► Let's see.

00:08:30 ◼   ► Oh, here's a new email.

00:08:31 ◼   ► Let's see what it is.

00:08:32 ◼   ► Like, you know, having, having to like constantly like, you know, churn through these like social

00:08:35 ◼   ► feeds and everything to satisfy my brain is a huge distraction.

00:08:40 ◼   ► I mean, that's why I wrote my quitter app just to like help force me to have some self

00:08:45 ◼   ► control around things like Twitter and Slack and stuff like that.

00:08:49 ◼   ► And to have, you know, as you mentioned, like when you, when you go to a place like this,

00:08:54 ◼   ► like when you go to an office or where you go on a work retreat or something like that,

00:08:58 ◼   ► uh, similar, even like if you go to a conference because it's just like a single purpose place,

00:09:04 ◼   ► you are there just to do that thing that I find really helps me like, you know, similar

00:09:09 ◼   ► restrictions.

00:09:10 ◼   ► Like if, if you're on a long plane flight that doesn't have wife or wifi or you don't

00:09:14 ◼   ► want to buy the wifi, then you're offline.

00:09:17 ◼   ► And so you can have your laptop and be totally offline.

00:09:19 ◼   ► Like you're not going to get tweets coming in when you're offline.

00:09:23 ◼   ► So maybe you can get some work done.

00:09:24 ◼   ► Maybe you can program some stuff in X code that doesn't require an internet connection,

00:09:27 ◼   ► like stuff like that.

00:09:28 ◼   ► Like there's, there's a lot of, a lot of good I found in like restrictions and, and, and

00:09:34 ◼   ► kind of purpose, purpose defined, uh, retreats or holidays or trips or places.

00:09:39 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:09:40 ◼   ► And in a weird way, I've also even found it to be, um, for a while I, when I have, when

00:09:46 ◼   ► I rented office space, I opened it up and shared it with a couple of friends who also

00:09:52 ◼   ► did kind of independent or contract or remote work.

00:09:55 ◼   ► Um, and we weren't working on anything the same, but in a weird way, the peer pressure

00:10:01 ◼   ► of being there with somebody else, um, I found to be a really useful tool, like edge for

00:10:07 ◼   ► kind of helping me be focused and productive and kind of in the zone because it's a weird

00:10:13 ◼   ► thing.

00:10:14 ◼   ► But like, even if someone, if someone is sitting next to you doing their completely own thing,

00:10:18 ◼   ► like it's not like they're like my boss looking over my shoulder.

00:10:21 ◼   ► Um, but there is, there is also something that is, there's a, they're created this nice

00:10:24 ◼   ► sense of camaraderie and kind of in a positive way, peer pressure where it was nice to go

00:10:30 ◼   ► in in the morning and, you know, often I would talk about what we were working on often.

00:10:34 ◼   ► Um, but it was kind of fun then at the end of the day to be able to be like, "Hey, this

00:10:37 ◼   ► is what I worked on."

00:10:38 ◼   ► And to be able to show that to someone.

00:10:40 ◼   ► Uh, and I, and I replicate that a lot with, uh, you know, I show my work to my wife, but,

00:10:45 ◼   ► um, as another alternative for that same kind of thing, there's, it's another option to

00:10:49 ◼   ► work in a place where you're around other people who aren't necessarily your colleagues,

00:10:54 ◼   ► your coworkers, um, but who care or who would be interested in it.

00:10:57 ◼   ► Like I'm also reminded of a local, um, NS Coder night, um, which is like, you know, just

00:11:02 ◼   ► a little get together meetup, um, that I used to go to that was, you know, once a week,

00:11:07 ◼   ► every Monday night, um, and everyone would just kind of go and work on their own stuff.

00:11:11 ◼   ► But a lot of people would say, and I know several people who did launch their kind of

00:11:15 ◼   ► more independent work from something like that because it gave them a dedicated space

00:11:20 ◼   ► where they felt like it was appropriate to work on their side project.

00:11:24 ◼   ► And then it allowed, you know, it was a nice environment where everyone is focused, everyone

00:11:28 ◼   ► is working.

00:11:29 ◼   ► Um, but if you have a breakthrough, if something goes well, if you have a success, um, you

00:11:34 ◼   ► could celebrate that with people and people would care about it.

00:11:36 ◼   ► So you know, it can be a nice little perk there as well.

00:11:39 ◼   ► Exactly.

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00:13:04 ◼   ► So I thought it might be interesting to get into some of these specifics of like, what

00:13:08 ◼   ► kind of second locations do you set up and what considerations go into those setups?

00:13:14 ◼   ► And you know, for me, first of all, it's very important and, and you know, speaking of the

00:13:18 ◼   ► cortex podcast, a lot of our, a lot of our friends like gray do stuff like this.

00:13:22 ◼   ► It's very important to, I think have separate software setups.

00:13:26 ◼   ► And this is, you know, technically using multiple users.

00:13:29 ◼   ► You could actually do this at home with your home work computer.

00:13:32 ◼   ► I don't actually do that with mine and I should, but I like one of the problems when you have

00:13:37 ◼   ► just one computer, one location where you do everything is when, you know, is basically

00:13:43 ◼   ► when you sit down to work, all your personal and hobby inside project stuff is all right

00:13:47 ◼   ► there.

00:13:48 ◼   ► It's all on screen.

00:13:49 ◼   ► It's all the same apps.

00:13:50 ◼   ► It's all blended in.

00:13:51 ◼   ► You know, your windows might all still be open from the night before when you were doing

00:13:53 ◼   ► like fun hobby stuff.

00:13:54 ◼   ► So it's very tempting to just start doing, you know, stuff like that or administrative

00:13:59 ◼   ► work that is not your core work.

00:14:02 ◼   ► And, and you know, if you have a separation, if you, you know, if you, if you have two

00:14:06 ◼   ► computers and one of them is just work stuff, then when you sit down at that work computer

00:14:11 ◼   ► in, you know, whether it's a separate place or not, when you sit down at that work computer,

00:14:16 ◼   ► you are like prompted to do work by that computer.

00:14:19 ◼   ► Like there's like, it might not even have any personal stuff on it or it might have

00:14:22 ◼   ► so much less personal stuff on it that it, there's way less ability for that distraction.

00:14:27 ◼   ► It's almost like a separation of church and state.

00:14:29 ◼   ► And it's like, you know, you keep your personal stuff on personal devices, keep your work

00:14:32 ◼   ► stuff on work devices.

00:14:33 ◼   ► Again, this is not something I practice, but it's something I should practice because I

00:14:37 ◼   ► see a lot of value to that.

00:14:38 ◼   ► Maybe.

00:14:39 ◼   ► Yeah, I don't know.

00:14:40 ◼   ► I'll go, I'll go round and round on this.

00:14:41 ◼   ► I've tried, like I've tried the approach where like I would put different software on different

00:14:47 ◼   ► machines.

00:14:48 ◼   ► And for me, I find that it kind of become, I just always, it feels cumbersome rather

00:14:52 ◼   ► than useful.

00:14:53 ◼   ► Like it's, I think it's the type of thing where it can be very useful depending on the

00:14:57 ◼   ► kind of work you're doing and the, just the way which you tend to, to, you know, to manage

00:15:04 ◼   ► things.

00:15:05 ◼   ► But for me, I've tried it a little bit.

00:15:06 ◼   ► For a while I did the, you know, I put all communication type software and setups on

00:15:11 ◼   ► a laptop and then I put all of my development stuff on my, you know, on my main desktop

00:15:17 ◼   ► and was kind of have like, you know, so if I'm going to go email or Slack or Twitter

00:15:22 ◼   ► or anything like that, RSS, like that was that all in like a separate machine.

00:15:27 ◼   ► And that it would do in theory would help me when I was focused at work.

00:15:31 ◼   ► But inevitably, like things would start to get awkward or cumbersome.

00:15:34 ◼   ► And it's like, well, I need to email this file that I just made to my designer.

00:15:39 ◼   ► And so now I need to like save it into Dropbox, go to the other computer, load it up.

00:15:43 ◼   ► And the cumbersome of it often I found to be kind of counterproductive, but it is all

00:15:49 ◼   ► at the same time.

00:15:50 ◼   ► It's just one of these tools that it might be worth trying and you could have great success

00:15:54 ◼   ► with it or you may not.

00:15:56 ◼   ► And you know, it doesn't need to be a precious thing.

00:15:58 ◼   ► Like there's no right way to do this, but it's an interesting tool to at least, you

00:16:03 ◼   ► know, consider and try.

00:16:04 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:16:05 ◼   ► So another thing to think about is like, you know, so assuming that you're setting something

00:16:09 ◼   ► up out of your house, what one of the big factors that goes into what you should do

00:16:13 ◼   ► here, I think is whether it's considered like semi-permanent or whether it has to be a temporary

00:16:21 ◼   ► thing.

00:16:22 ◼   ► So if you're just going to, you know, if you're thinking about a travel setup or a coffee

00:16:26 ◼   ► shop set up, that's going to be or even like, like the great vacation kind of like, you

00:16:29 ◼   ► know, working vacation set up, that's going to have to be entirely portable, entirely

00:16:34 ◼   ► temporary.

00:16:35 ◼   ► So you're going to need, it's going to be a laptop or an iPad or both.

00:16:40 ◼   ► And it's going to, you're going to need like, you know, headphones, like keep everything

00:16:43 ◼   ► together.

00:16:44 ◼   ► You're going to be probably like some kind of like travelable mouse or something like

00:16:48 ◼   ► that.

00:16:49 ◼   ► One of the problems with this kind of setup is it makes it very difficult to involve things

00:16:54 ◼   ► like external monitors and full size keyboards just because they're so big and clunky.

00:16:59 ◼   ► This is an area where I usually struggle with this kind of setup.

00:17:02 ◼   ► There are a few workarounds, like for instance, there's a number of apps that let you use

00:17:07 ◼   ► an iPad as an external monitor to your laptop.

00:17:10 ◼   ► And they have varying degrees of success.

00:17:12 ◼   ► They're a little bit wonky usually.

00:17:14 ◼   ► I don't think any of them work that well yet to be honest, although there's some promising

00:17:18 ◼   ► upcoming projects that I think are coming out soon.

00:17:20 ◼   ► But that's, it's just kind of a fiddly difficult setup that so far has been fairly unproven.

00:17:27 ◼   ► So for the most part, there really is not a great way to have multiple monitors or a

00:17:31 ◼   ► large monitor in a travel setup.

00:17:34 ◼   ► So that to me is the big downside.

00:17:36 ◼   ► And again, not having my giant split natural keyboard available to me also gets fairly

00:17:43 ◼   ► uncomfortable for long periods.

00:17:44 ◼   ► So these types of setups, you know, they're wonderful if it's all you have.

00:17:49 ◼   ► Like if you're on a plane and you have a laptop, you can take it out and get worked on.

00:17:53 ◼   ► That's amazing.

00:17:54 ◼   ► Like if you can go to anywhere in the world with a laptop and get work done, like that's

00:17:57 ◼   ► awesome.

00:17:58 ◼   ► But if you have any more permanence in your setup, you might want to consider something

00:18:04 ◼   ► else.

00:18:05 ◼   ► And so there's lots of different ways that you can do this.

00:18:07 ◼   ► Again, this could be an office out of the house.

00:18:10 ◼   ► It could be a vacation home or your parents' house, your in-laws' house, some place where

00:18:16 ◼   ► you go a lot on vacation or just to get out of, just somewhere else that you go.

00:18:23 ◼   ► If you own these kinds of places versus if you rent them for like a week seasonally,

00:18:28 ◼   ► you have more options with things like monitors and things.

00:18:32 ◼   ► You know, so there's the question of like, do you set up like a second desktop or your

00:18:36 ◼   ► first desktop there?

00:18:39 ◼   ► That I don't love that option usually because like it's most people should only be maintaining

00:18:46 ◼   ► one computer.

00:18:48 ◼   ► If you have to have more than one computer, the right number of computers to have is usually

00:18:52 ◼   ► two.

00:18:53 ◼   ► And you don't, it's kind of like cats.

00:18:55 ◼   ► You'd really don't want more than that.

00:18:56 ◼   ► Like it's, it can get out of control really fast.

00:18:58 ◼   ► And so usually the right setup is to have something at your house and something at your

00:19:05 ◼   ► work and have one of those be a laptop that you can therefore bring if you have to go

00:19:11 ◼   ► on a trip somewhere or if you have to go somewhere temporarily, then like you have something

00:19:16 ◼   ► that you can bring.

00:19:17 ◼   ► Now again, for the kinds of work you do, maybe you can get away with say an iPad and have

00:19:22 ◼   ► two desktops like one at home, one at the workspace or whatever.

00:19:26 ◼   ► That's possible.

00:19:27 ◼   ► I don't think it's going to represent a lot of people, especially listeners to the show.

00:19:31 ◼   ► So you know, chances are there's going to be a laptop involved here somewhere.

00:19:34 ◼   ► So it's really nice to have one of those be the laptop, which then can cover any other

00:19:39 ◼   ► needs as they arise.

00:19:41 ◼   ► Now there's nothing saying that the one at home has to be the desktop.

00:19:46 ◼   ► You could, you know, depending on your needs, you could have your big honking awesome desktop

00:19:52 ◼   ► be at the office and have the laptop be the thing that you keep at home for occasional

00:19:56 ◼   ► travel needs.

00:19:57 ◼   ► Like you could flip it depending on what your needs actually are there.

00:19:59 ◼   ► Yeah, and that's what I did for a long time when I had an office outside of my home.

00:20:04 ◼   ► That's I had the, I had my iMac set up at the office and then I had a MacBook Pro that

00:20:10 ◼   ► I would take with me on trips or when I needed to do work at home or just kind of opportunistic

00:20:16 ◼   ► work, I think is also an interesting situation and something to keep in mind that once I

00:20:21 ◼   ► had, like I, at some point I kind of worked out what I would need to be productive on

00:20:27 ◼   ► a travel basis, like in a, you know, I have a little kind of teeny laptop stand so that

00:20:33 ◼   ► I could raise up my laptop off the desk and then I just took one of those little, like

00:20:39 ◼   ► the smallest Apple wireless keyboards and a magic mouse and I could put like, it's pretty,

00:20:45 ◼   ► it's a small enough collection of things that you could very easily put that into a backpack.

00:20:49 ◼   ► And I found that having that available was also really useful just for opportunistic

00:20:53 ◼   ► work.

00:20:54 ◼   ► Like I found that every night, it's a very common thing.

00:20:56 ◼   ► I think if you have young children who can't drive themselves, where you'll take your,

00:21:01 ◼   ► you drive your, drive a kid to somewhere, to an activity, and then you're going to wait,

00:21:05 ◼   ► you're just going to sit and wait for an hour while they do their piano lesson or whatever

00:21:09 ◼   ► it is.

00:21:10 ◼   ► And there was a time when I would just, you know, I would bring my, bring my computer

00:21:13 ◼   ► and try and make the most of that time.

00:21:16 ◼   ► And often it's useful, I found, to, once I made that setup straightforward, that it was

00:21:21 ◼   ► sort of like I had this go bag that it's like, okay, I know what I need to bring with me.

00:21:25 ◼   ► And I could just take it with me, set it up and be comfortable.

00:21:28 ◼   ► You're not, not like, you know, I find working on just, just straight on a laptop on a table

00:21:34 ◼   ► can be really, you know, physically painful.

00:21:36 ◼   ► So once I had my setup dialed in, I could just use that.

00:21:39 ◼   ► I had that available to me.

00:21:40 ◼   ► And you never know what, you're, it's like if you can redeem that time to be productive,

00:21:46 ◼   ► then, you know, that's, can be potentially quite a, quite a big upside to putting in

00:21:50 ◼   ► a little bit of work to, you know, under, making a, an actual useful mobile setup in

00:21:54 ◼   ► that way.

00:21:55 ◼   ► Oh, definitely.

00:21:56 ◼   ► Absolutely.

00:21:57 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:21:58 ◼   ► Another thing to think about, like, if you're going to be somewhere for more than, say,

00:22:02 ◼   ► a week, it might become worth it to actually set up like an office desk and an office chair.

00:22:08 ◼   ► Like it's funny, like a table and chair, like I've occasionally had like been on vacation

00:22:13 ◼   ► or something, somewhere with a laptop and I try to get work done at like, you know,

00:22:16 ◼   ► the dining room table or like the kitchen counter bar or whatever, you know, some, some

00:22:20 ◼   ► place in a house.

00:22:21 ◼   ► And I'm always just dying for like, please, can I just have an office desk and an office

00:22:25 ◼   ► chair?

00:22:26 ◼   ► Like that's all I want.

00:22:27 ◼   ► The good thing is, you know, as much as we've talked in the past about how we love our very

00:22:29 ◼   ► expensive office chairs for like permanent, you know, eight hour a day, every day setups,

00:22:36 ◼   ► you can get really cheap office chairs and office desk these days.

00:22:41 ◼   ► Like last summer we were going to be at the beach for a month.

00:22:45 ◼   ► And so I had sent over an Amazon basics desk chair for like, I think it was like $40 and

00:22:52 ◼   ► a really basic desk that, and it, cause all I knew, like I need something height adjustable

00:22:57 ◼   ► on the chair, like so I can like sit at the proper height with the ergonomics.

00:23:00 ◼   ► And I brought over a keyboard.

00:23:02 ◼   ► I bought the stupid LG five K ultra fine monitor, which is mediocre, but it's fine for this

00:23:07 ◼   ► kind of use.

00:23:08 ◼   ► And I brought a laptop and, and so I had a desktop like set up there for not that much

00:23:14 ◼   ► money, especially cause I took the monitor home with me again.

00:23:17 ◼   ► So not that much money.

00:23:19 ◼   ► And it was like, you know, just to buy a really cheap desk chair and desk was combined under

00:23:26 ◼   ► a hundred dollars.

00:23:28 ◼   ► And it was, you know, again, not great for your permanent setup, but totally fine for

00:23:33 ◼   ► a month of regular use, you know?

00:23:36 ◼   ► And so like, there's lots of options like that.

00:23:37 ◼   ► Like if you, if you have any kind of longterm or permanence to, to a place, set it up, like

00:23:44 ◼   ► set it up right with at least proper ergonomics.

00:23:48 ◼   ► You don't have to get great stuff.

00:23:50 ◼   ► You don't have to get a lot of stuff.

00:23:52 ◼   ► But you know, the basics like give it an actual desk chair, not like a dining room chair at

00:23:56 ◼   ► a dining room table.

00:23:57 ◼   ► That's going to mess you up ergonomically.

00:23:59 ◼   ► And if you're going to be, you know, working on a computer a lot, look into ways you can

00:24:04 ◼   ► get an external monitor there and a keyboard and mouse.

00:24:07 ◼   ► So you aren't just hunched over a laptop all day.

00:24:09 ◼   ► That makes a huge difference.

00:24:10 ◼   ► Yeah.

00:24:11 ◼   ► And I think too, it's just the importance of keeping in mind that I know it's so easy

00:24:16 ◼   ► to not to think of spending money on your like product, your work environment to feel

00:24:25 ◼   ► unnecessary, like in the because in the sense that it's all I really like if I strip it

00:24:30 ◼   ► all down, all I need to get work done is a laptop.

00:24:35 ◼   ► Like it just if that's all I had, I could work and anything to enhance my working on

00:24:40 ◼   ► that laptop is in that sense unnecessary.

00:24:45 ◼   ► But it is tremendously useful.

00:24:47 ◼   ► And it is something that I know I've had to drill into myself over the years is the I'm

00:24:52 ◼   ► doing a professional job that is hopefully making money.

00:24:56 ◼   ► And the anything that I can do, like it's if I can, if there's a relatively straightforward

00:25:01 ◼   ► way that I can exchange a little bit of money for an increase in productivity, unless I'm

00:25:07 ◼   ► worried, unless my productivity isn't worth hardly anything, like it's always a break.

00:25:11 ◼   ► I'm always coming out ahead.

00:25:12 ◼   ► I'm never a break, you know, I'm never falling behind on that.

00:25:15 ◼   ► And so yeah, it's like, even if it is going to be for relatively short term basis, getting

00:25:20 ◼   ► a basic chair getting a basic desk, if that's going to allow you to actually get some work

00:25:25 ◼   ► done, like in the scope of your work, those expenses should be fairly minor.

00:25:30 ◼   ► And any anytime you can see those opportunities, like obviously, you can go down to the extreme

00:25:34 ◼   ► where you're, you know, you're kind of just fixating on optimizing everything, that's

00:25:38 ◼   ► probably unproductive.

00:25:39 ◼   ► But you know, I've definitely gotten into the habit now where it's like, anytime there's

00:25:44 ◼   ► a small, simple, quick thing that I could buy that I think will make me slightly more

00:25:48 ◼   ► productive, I buy it because it's those little, you know, it's like that little productivity

00:25:54 ◼   ► boost is almost certainly going to come back to pay for itself.

00:25:57 ◼   ► You know, it's like my desk right now has iPad stand or iPhone dock stands on it.

00:26:03 ◼   ► Like I have three or four of those because I found it was just that much more convenient

00:26:07 ◼   ► to be able to have my iPhones stacked up and looking at me rather than flat on the desk

00:26:12 ◼   ► when I'm doing testing.

00:26:13 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:26:14 ◼   ► So I did it.

00:26:15 ◼   ► It's like they're four or $5.

00:26:16 ◼   ► Like they weren't expensive, and they don't need to be fancy.

00:26:18 ◼   ► But I was able to, you know, spend a little money to make the my environment that much

00:26:22 ◼   ► better.

00:26:23 ◼   ► And I think with a second office or an environment like that is another great example of a place

00:26:26 ◼   ► where you can be thoughtful about what would enhance your productivity and then be able

00:26:31 ◼   ► to make these little purchases that can pay for themselves very quickly.

00:26:35 ◼   ► Oh, yeah.

00:26:36 ◼   ► And you can justify any amount of expenditure, you know, really depending on your on your

00:26:40 ◼   ► on your means, like, you know, if you you know, if you want to go the super inexpensive

00:26:44 ◼   ► efficient route and get the Amazon basic stuff, that's fine.

00:26:47 ◼   ► That's a perfectly valid thing to do, especially if it's going to be something that's not going

00:26:51 ◼   ► to be under heavy use for a long period of time.

00:26:53 ◼   ► Like it's going to be like a vacation home or something like that.

00:26:56 ◼   ► But you could also argue like, well, this is your work.

00:27:00 ◼   ► This is what you need to make your living.

00:27:02 ◼   ► So if you want to get something a little bit nicer, as long as that's not going to like

00:27:06 ◼   ► break the bank for you, that is a totally justifiable purchase.

00:27:09 ◼   ► Because, you know, as you said, you know, oh, you think you can just take a laptop and

00:27:12 ◼   ► work anywhere.

00:27:13 ◼   ► And that's that's partly what you need.

00:27:15 ◼   ► But you also need your wrists and your back and your brain to be happy.

00:27:21 ◼   ► And so, you know, you need to also make sure that you are taking care of your your body's

00:27:27 ◼   ► physical and ergonomic needs very well, as well as you're going to a place to actually

00:27:32 ◼   ► want to make you happy.

00:27:34 ◼   ► Because ultimately, you know, we have worked our butts off to become independent developers

00:27:39 ◼   ► so that we can work wherever and however we feel like it.

00:27:43 ◼   ► And you should, when at all possible, have that be in an environment that you actually

00:27:49 ◼   ► really enjoy because you earned it.

00:27:51 ◼   ► Like if you're here, if you're if you're working somewhere in your own office or in your home,

00:27:55 ◼   ► like you earned that you worked your butt off to get that.

00:28:00 ◼   ► And that can be nice, damn it.

00:28:02 ◼   ► You should enjoy that.

00:28:03 ◼   ► Oh, sure.

00:28:04 ◼   ► And I think, too, it's the it's a nice thing to have the ability to tailor it to how you

00:28:12 ◼   ► what what do you need and what you would actually enjoy?

00:28:16 ◼   ► You know that if it's as understanding that everybody's different.

00:28:20 ◼   ► And for me, what's you know, what is a delightful enhancement to my work environment might be

00:28:25 ◼   ► different from you.

00:28:26 ◼   ► Like, I know you listen to music and with very expensive, fancy headphones.

00:28:31 ◼   ► That's not something that I need.

00:28:32 ◼   ► I just needed headphones that would block out noise.

00:28:35 ◼   ► But that's, you know, it's like that's like finding those areas where it is actually a

00:28:40 ◼   ► value add where you will enjoy it will will be a nice reward.

00:28:45 ◼   ► Like take advantage of that because you have the choice to do that.

00:28:47 ◼   ► You're not going down to your office manager at work and saying, hey, I really you know,

00:28:52 ◼   ► my wrists are starting to hurt.

00:28:53 ◼   ► I kind of wish I could have this laptop stand and filling in a requisition form or whatever.

00:28:58 ◼   ► Like you can make that choice, take advantage of that flexibility, take advantage of the

00:29:02 ◼   ► ability that you can decide what you're going to do and then just enjoy that.

00:29:06 ◼   ► Yeah, you can make an opposite opposite environment, whether that's at your home, whether it's

00:29:09 ◼   ► just in a second location, wherever that is, that is optimal for you.

00:29:13 ◼   ► And I think if you're thoughtful about that, like if you actually think about, you know,

00:29:16 ◼   ► how you work and then observe yourself and say, did we did what I think actually plan

00:29:21 ◼   ► out, you know, you can end up with a much better result.

00:29:24 ◼   ► Thanks for listening, everybody.

00:29:25 ◼   ► And we'll talk to you next week.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Bye.

00:29:26 ◼   ► Bye