The Accidental Tech Podcast

01:00:00 ◼   ► for you than usb3 like just I know it's

01:00:03 ◼   ► not quite the same thing but the USBC

01:00:05 ◼   ► cable that comes with all the MacBook

01:00:06 ◼   ► Pros is USB to cable yeah I just saw you

01:00:09 ◼   ► have to you have to make the the product

01:00:11 ◼   ► not not feel like you're getting

01:00:13 ◼   ► second-class and everything I feel like

01:00:16 ◼   ► that and this is a thing that Steve Jobs

01:00:17 ◼   ► used to do and my alt my impression from

01:00:19 ◼   ► the outside is that basically through

01:00:21 ◼   ► sheer force of will because it's what he

01:00:23 ◼   ► wanted is periodically it would update

01:00:25 ◼   ► the whole line and they would expunge

01:00:27 ◼   ► some lesser thing from the entire line

01:00:29 ◼   ► top to bottom even the cheapest one

01:00:31 ◼   ► wouldn't have things that Steve Jobs no

01:00:33 ◼   ► no longer likes he loved to refresh the

01:00:34 ◼   ► whole line and say it's all gone and in

01:00:36 ◼   ► Tim Cook era refreshing the whole line

01:00:39 ◼   ► pretty much never happens like you get

01:00:41 ◼   ► new things at the top but the middle and

01:00:43 ◼   ► bottom is just like it's all it's like

01:00:46 ◼   ► hand-me-downs and secondhand stuff and

01:00:48 ◼   ► just hanging out down there with

01:00:50 ◼   ► yesterday's technology you never get the

01:00:51 ◼   ► clean sweep there you go through it says

01:00:53 ◼   ► we have a whole new line of products

01:00:54 ◼   ► from super low price to super high price

01:00:56 ◼   ► and all of them we talked about this

01:00:58 ◼   ► world look like a family and are brought

01:00:59 ◼   ► up to some minimum standard right so

01:01:02 ◼   ► they're like 2nd gen touch ID should be

01:01:04 ◼   ► everywhere by now you should not have

01:01:06 ◼   ► first in tragedy it should be a relic of

01:01:08 ◼   ► the past but it's like can we save an

01:01:10 ◼   ► extra dollar 50 yes we can keep shipping

01:01:12 ◼   ► the old one no don't keep shipping the

01:01:14 ◼   ► old one like even even the lowest end

01:01:18 ◼   ► Apple product I feel like has to be

01:01:20 ◼   ► brought along with all the other tech

01:01:22 ◼   ► it's some minimum level I don't know I

01:01:26 ◼   ► the product annoys me a little bit I do

01:01:28 ◼   ► agree that it's great that it's there

01:01:30 ◼   ► it's much better than not having it at

01:01:31 ◼   ► all

01:01:31 ◼   ► but I'm not gonna like it Tim Cook has

01:01:36 ◼   ► no minimum standard that's really that's

01:01:37 ◼   ► like if you look at you know you said

01:01:39 ◼   ► like you know raise everything to

01:01:40 ◼   ► minimum standards like he has no minimum

01:01:42 ◼   ► he he will sell the oldest lowest end

01:01:46 ◼   ► parts forever

01:01:47 ◼   ► as long as they're still money to be

01:01:49 ◼   ► made there that's why like I think if

01:01:52 ◼   ► Apple was truly a premium company if

01:01:54 ◼   ► they if they really wanted that quality

01:01:56 ◼   ► and honestly and I don't say this often

01:01:58 ◼   ► if Steve was still there I do not think

01:02:01 ◼   ► they would be selling anything today

01:02:03 ◼   ► with a spinning disc or a non Retina

01:02:05 ◼   ► screen yeah as like as a product guys

01:02:08 ◼   ► Steve so much was it's like and IRA

01:02:11 ◼   ► tribute to him because he was head

01:02:13 ◼   ► the last second so many things is like

01:02:14 ◼   ► you once you have the new thing you

01:02:16 ◼   ► don't want anyone to have the old thing

01:02:18 ◼   ► anymore like you you want like obviously

01:02:20 ◼   ► price is a factor in you can't like

01:02:21 ◼   ► everyone read in overnight but like once

01:02:23 ◼   ► you see a Retina screen got can you look

01:02:24 ◼   ► at an on Retina screen anymore

01:02:25 ◼   ► and you know as soon as that's feasible

01:02:28 ◼   ► price-wise you want to put that in

01:02:29 ◼   ► everything same thing with second gen

01:02:31 ◼   ► touch ID you know first identity yeah

01:02:33 ◼   ► it's our fresh cut out but once we get

01:02:34 ◼   ► the second gen one and the price comes

01:02:36 ◼   ► down like once it gets close enough it's

01:02:37 ◼   ► time to refresh the whole line and

01:02:38 ◼   ► forget about first get in touch okay

01:02:40 ◼   ► you're never going to see that an Apple

01:02:41 ◼   ► product again everything is second gen

01:02:43 ◼   ► just because it was like you feel you

01:02:46 ◼   ► feel like you want everyone to have your

01:02:48 ◼   ► new thing and yet Tim does not seem to

01:02:51 ◼   ► have that instinct he feels no kind of

01:02:54 ◼   ► shame I must say embarrassment or it's

01:02:56 ◼   ► that shame or embarrassment it's too

01:02:57 ◼   ► much it's more like just when you make a

01:03:00 ◼   ► new thing you want everyone to see your

01:03:01 ◼   ► bet you want everyone to see the best

01:03:02 ◼   ► thing that you have to offer and again

01:03:04 ◼   ► obviously price comes into it everyone

01:03:05 ◼   ► can't get a p3 screen everyone can get

01:03:07 ◼   ► promotion right but there's a

01:03:08 ◼   ► trickle-down effect and a product person

01:03:10 ◼   ► would be like boy I can't wait until

01:03:12 ◼   ► it's financially feasible for me to

01:03:13 ◼   ► offer p3 displays on all our products

01:03:16 ◼   ► when is that gonna happen

01:03:17 ◼   ► give me a timeline five years from now

01:03:18 ◼   ► or whatever let's go for that because

01:03:20 ◼   ► that will be a milestone like that we

01:03:22 ◼   ► will have raised the bar on all of our

01:03:24 ◼   ► products and Tim Cook is like I don't

01:03:25 ◼   ► care if that ever happens keep shipping

01:03:27 ◼   ► the TN display on the MacBook Air with

01:03:29 ◼   ► giant pixels and terrible color

01:03:31 ◼   ► reproduction as long as people buy it

01:03:32 ◼   ► that's not I don't like that this is a

01:03:35 ◼   ► good time to bring up another point that

01:03:36 ◼   ► we had in the notes here which is that

01:03:38 ◼   ► Apple's still selling the iPad Mini 4

01:03:41 ◼   ► for $70 more than this new iPad it has

01:03:45 ◼   ► an 8 opposed to an a-10 and yep still

01:03:52 ◼   ► selling it no end in sight and also no

01:03:55 ◼   ► replacement in sight for that product

01:03:57 ◼   ► even though I think people would buy it

01:03:58 ◼   ► but it's good it's got a no Apple pencil

01:04:01 ◼   ► support and a smaller display and it's

01:04:03 ◼   ► $70 more this is another this is an

01:04:04 ◼   ► article from the verge by the way and

01:04:06 ◼   ► this is another example of Apple's

01:04:08 ◼   ► product lines being not being coherent

01:04:09 ◼   ► lay out all the iPads before I mean

01:04:11 ◼   ► explain to me what the progression is

01:04:14 ◼   ► through your line or what the use cases

01:04:16 ◼   ► are and then you get the iPad Mini for

01:04:18 ◼   ► it but like mm-hmm

01:04:19 ◼   ► this is like for people who want

01:04:21 ◼   ► something smaller but want it to be 2

01:04:24 ◼   ► generations behind are at least

01:04:25 ◼   ► expensive one and have

01:04:26 ◼   ► pencil support and I don't know like I

01:04:28 ◼   ► mean maybe they were in an in-between

01:04:29 ◼   ► period but we used to say that in

01:04:31 ◼   ► beginning like oh this line is in a

01:04:32 ◼   ► transition right but now I feel like we

01:04:35 ◼   ► have enough time to say all the lines

01:04:37 ◼   ► are constantly in transition that

01:04:38 ◼   ► they're never they never get to their

01:04:39 ◼   ► destination they never get to the point

01:04:41 ◼   ► where there is a line that makes sense

01:04:43 ◼   ► and that has good products at all price

01:04:45 ◼   ► points it's always just this long tail

01:04:49 ◼   ► of the residue of yesteryear falling off

01:04:52 ◼   ► the the product line or not falling off

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01:07:15 ◼   ► let's move on and do some ask ATP shall

01:07:17 ◼   ► we let's start with Chris oh rebo who

01:07:20 ◼   ► asks which Apple product when purchased

01:07:22 ◼   ► from Apple including refurbished and

01:07:23 ◼   ► clearance provides the most value or

01:07:25 ◼   ► functionality per dollar in other words

01:07:27 ◼   ► what's the biggest bang for your buck I

01:07:30 ◼   ► don't have a good answer for this I do I

01:07:34 ◼   ► do

01:07:35 ◼   ► okay good well we don't worry you good

01:07:38 ◼   ► we will get to you momentarily

01:07:40 ◼   ► my first which is not good is what ever

01:07:44 ◼   ► the best iPhone is you can buy because

01:07:46 ◼   ► given all of the things that you can do

01:07:49 ◼   ► with your phone and how amazing your

01:07:51 ◼   ► phone will be get the best one you can

01:07:53 ◼   ► it'll be great bang for your buck my

01:07:55 ◼   ► second answer which is which is probably

01:07:56 ◼   ► the better of the two is air pods they

01:07:59 ◼   ► are expensive but they provide if

01:08:01 ◼   ► assuming they fit in your ears they

01:08:02 ◼   ► provide me endless amounts of joy I

01:08:05 ◼   ► cannot speak highly enough of the air

01:08:07 ◼   ► pods so let's go to mark excuse me let's

01:08:09 ◼   ► go to John who will hopefully have a

01:08:11 ◼   ► very quick answer and then Marco you can

01:08:12 ◼   ► take us home

01:08:13 ◼   ► this is a good one but I still feel like

01:08:15 ◼   ► the one sexy is too much my answer is

01:08:17 ◼   ► the iPhone 8 is I think the most

01:08:19 ◼   ► expensive iPhone is too much like the

01:08:21 ◼   ► iPhone 10 it's not worth the price

01:08:22 ◼   ► premium but the iPhone 8 is a fantastic

01:08:25 ◼   ► phone like it is it's you know if the

01:08:28 ◼   ► iPhone 10 didn't exist the iPhone it

01:08:30 ◼   ► would be a worthy top-end phone and

01:08:32 ◼   ► because the iPhone 10 does exist it can

01:08:34 ◼   ► be less expensive and yeah the iPhone 8

01:08:37 ◼   ► is still expensive but it's a really

01:08:39 ◼   ► great phone and I feel like it gets

01:08:41 ◼   ► overlooked and it's the iPhone is

01:08:43 ◼   ► Apple's best product they put their best

01:08:45 ◼   ► stuff into it it has the the highest

01:08:47 ◼   ► success rate so I feel like that's the

01:08:49 ◼   ► most bang for the buck even though it is

01:08:50 ◼   ► a hell of a lot of bucks is also

01:08:52 ◼   ► a little bang that's a really good pick

01:08:55 ◼   ► I will give you that all right so I kind

01:08:58 ◼   ► of have multiple picks it depends on

01:08:59 ◼   ► like what category you're looking at I I

01:09:01 ◼   ► thought about you know stuff like air

01:09:02 ◼   ► pods but I wanted to just focus on like

01:09:04 ◼   ► computers phones and iPads so like like

01:09:06 ◼   ► so you know so I'm not gonna say like

01:09:07 ◼   ► well you know this one lightning cable

01:09:09 ◼   ► is the best bang for the buck

01:09:11 ◼   ► none of Apple's cables are the best bang

01:09:13 ◼   ► for your buck I know actually I thought

01:09:14 ◼   ► about that like no I can't there's

01:09:16 ◼   ► nothing in these categories anyway and I

01:09:19 ◼   ► also I wanted to enforce some minimum

01:09:21 ◼   ► standards of making things usable and so

01:09:24 ◼   ► iOS devices I decided needed to have at

01:09:28 ◼   ► least 64 gigs of storage and if and for

01:09:31 ◼   ► anything I picked it was an iPad it had

01:09:33 ◼   ► to include a smart cover so that's 40

01:09:35 ◼   ► bucks to the iPad prices for the Mac I

01:09:39 ◼   ► thought at least a 256 gig SSD or a 1

01:09:44 ◼   ► terabyte fusion drive and if it's the

01:09:46 ◼   ► USBC model that I was considering I

01:09:48 ◼   ► added a $100 allowance for adapters and

01:09:51 ◼   ► hubs because I true and I don't mean to

01:09:53 ◼   ► go off and on the laptops again really I

01:09:56 ◼   ► truly don't believe that that the modern

01:09:59 ◼   ► and USB see only laptops are useful

01:10:00 ◼   ► without having you know 50 to 100 hours

01:10:03 ◼   ► worth of adapters and hubs for them in

01:10:06 ◼   ► the same way that an iPad is not useful

01:10:08 ◼   ► without some kind of cover or case

01:10:09 ◼   ► anyway so in the iPhone category which i

01:10:13 ◼   ► think is my overall category probably

01:10:16 ◼   ► because iPhones are just so dan useful

01:10:18 ◼   ► and so damn good I actually picked the

01:10:20 ◼   ► iPhone 7 128 jet black

01:10:23 ◼   ► this goes for 650 new or 590 currently

01:10:26 ◼   ► refurbished from Apple comm you know I

01:10:29 ◼   ► looked at the iPhone se 128 that's 450

01:10:31 ◼   ► that's only new there's no reference for

01:10:33 ◼   ► that so 450 for the iPhone se or 590 for

01:10:36 ◼   ► an iPhone 7 refurb that is such a good

01:10:39 ◼   ► phone I I like it better than the 8

01:10:41 ◼   ► because one of the you know the great

01:10:43 ◼   ► advantage of the jet black is you don't

01:10:44 ◼   ► really need a case because there's so

01:10:45 ◼   ► much grip on it and I think I think it

01:10:46 ◼   ► looks better honestly and then the 8th

01:10:48 ◼   ► does and it's it's still a really solid

01:10:51 ◼   ► modern internals phone that's it slew of

01:10:53 ◼   ► the CPU they just put in this new I've

01:10:55 ◼   ► had to restock you about so the iPhone 7

01:10:57 ◼   ► 128 jet black new or refurbished the

01:11:00 ◼   ► best buy right now in the and the iPhone

01:11:02 ◼   ► lineup and possibly the entire Apple

01:11:04 ◼   ► lineup I will also say

01:11:06 ◼   ► in the iPad lineup that new iPad the new

01:11:08 ◼   ► 9.7 iPad 128 gigs with Smart Cover is

01:11:12 ◼   ► 470 that's a really good deal you can

01:11:15 ◼   ► also get last year's version of it with

01:11:17 ◼   ► Smart Cover refurbished for 350

01:11:19 ◼   ► that's an excellent deal and you can get

01:11:22 ◼   ► the cellular version of last year's

01:11:25 ◼   ► model of that 9.7 in 128 for 450

01:11:28 ◼   ► refurbished that's a cellular iPad I

01:11:32 ◼   ► really enjoy a cellular iPad because if

01:11:34 ◼   ► you're talking about like what's gonna

01:11:35 ◼   ► be what how can I make this thing the

01:11:37 ◼   ► most useful to me

01:11:38 ◼   ► adding cellular really helps a lot this

01:11:40 ◼   ► is one of the reasons why I wish they

01:11:41 ◼   ► data to the laptops because it really

01:11:43 ◼   ► makes this like a truly like portable

01:11:45 ◼   ► work device it's just like a giant phone

01:11:47 ◼   ► then and it's really very nice to have

01:11:49 ◼   ► that sometimes in the laptop category if

01:11:53 ◼   ► you are limiting yourself to the only

01:11:57 ◼   ► modern you know 2016 forward MacBooks

01:12:00 ◼   ► the 13-inch MacBook escape with 256 gig

01:12:04 ◼   ► SSD is 1600 new or 1370 refurb both of

01:12:10 ◼   ► those include that $100 allowance for

01:12:12 ◼   ► Donnell's and hubs if you don't need

01:12:15 ◼   ► retina the 13-inch MacBook Air is still

01:12:17 ◼   ► sold 2:56 gives you 1200 new or 980

01:12:21 ◼   ► refurb I can't I can't pay $900 for

01:12:25 ◼   ► anything with that screen on it I know

01:12:27 ◼   ► and and I that's why I had this as like

01:12:29 ◼   ► a huge habit if you don't need or care

01:12:31 ◼   ► about retina that's a really great buy

01:12:33 ◼   ► it's not the retina it's the it's the

01:12:35 ◼   ► viewing angles color reproduction I just

01:12:37 ◼   ► think it's a bad screen well I think if

01:12:39 ◼   ► you don't care about retina if I'm not

01:12:41 ◼   ► gonna care about that either

01:12:41 ◼   ► oh and for desktop you know 4k iMac I

01:12:44 ◼   ► think eight eight one terabyte fusion 4k

01:12:47 ◼   ► iMac is 1,400 new 1270 refurb that's the

01:12:50 ◼   ► way to go on that however I think the

01:12:51 ◼   ► best Mac value is - nobody surprise the

01:12:56 ◼   ► 2015 15 inch macbook pro base model oh

01:13:00 ◼   ► here we go it's 2,000 new or 1700 refurb

01:13:05 ◼   ► for 1700 refurb you get a hell of a

01:13:09 ◼   ► computer you get 16 gigs of ram which

01:13:11 ◼   ► none of the other ones offer at these

01:13:12 ◼   ► prices 256 of course quad core processor

01:13:15 ◼   ► and then you have all the ports you need

01:13:18 ◼   ► you have a keyboard and trackpad or not

01:13:19 ◼   ► controversial and reliable you don't

01:13:21 ◼   ► need any dongles or anything that is

01:13:23 ◼   ► still I think the best overall value in

01:13:26 ◼   ► the Mac lineup

01:13:27 ◼   ► so overall iPhone 7 jet black and the

01:13:33 ◼   ► 2015 15 inch base model I've got that

01:13:37 ◼   ► iPhone and I think the eight is a better

01:13:39 ◼   ► deal maybe it's because I just checked

01:13:41 ◼   ► my battery health and it's at 87% and I

01:13:42 ◼   ► felt worse about my phone all right cool

01:13:48 ◼   ► Anson Jim Jablonski writes hey what did

01:13:51 ◼   ► Marco playing marching band or what

01:13:53 ◼   ► musical experience does each of the

01:13:55 ◼   ► hosts have if any so Marco what did you

01:13:57 ◼   ► play in marching band I was in the

01:13:59 ◼   ► percussion section so I started out as a

01:14:01 ◼   ► freshman on crash cymbals right at the

01:14:03 ◼   ► bottom of the totem pole there and then

01:14:05 ◼   ► sophomore year I was in snare drum

01:14:07 ◼   ► junior and senior year I was on quads

01:14:09 ◼   ► fair enough I have never played anything

01:14:12 ◼   ► with any sort of efficacy whatsoever

01:14:14 ◼   ► except I play a mean stereo never mind

01:14:18 ◼   ► John I play keyboards as a kid we had

01:14:22 ◼   ► like electric keyboards in the house i

01:14:23 ◼   ► nibbled around those I did actually take

01:14:25 ◼   ► piano lessons for some short period of

01:14:27 ◼   ► time but I could play songs that I

01:14:31 ◼   ► wanted to play like from the radio and

01:14:32 ◼   ► stuff one on keyboards and in college I

01:14:36 ◼   ► picked up a guitar because everybody on

01:14:38 ◼   ► my floor in my dorm my freshman dorm had

01:14:40 ◼   ► guitars and so it was impossible not to

01:14:42 ◼   ► pick up a guitar all of those

01:14:45 ◼   ► instruments I'm pretty much terrible at

01:14:46 ◼   ► and I could never sight read music but I

01:14:49 ◼   ► could kind of Nan sight read it briefly

01:14:51 ◼   ► for certain instruments moving on

01:14:55 ◼   ► the Italian stallion who was apparently

01:14:57 ◼   ► not John siracusa asks backpack

01:14:59 ◼   ► recommendations that would fit a 15-inch

01:15:01 ◼   ► MacBook Pro I know you just said

01:15:03 ◼   ► backpack but if you don't have to have a

01:15:05 ◼   ► backpack I really love I really love my

01:15:09 ◼   ► tum bin cadet which I'll put a link in

01:15:11 ◼   ► the show notes to my review of that I

01:15:12 ◼   ► have also heard but have not tried

01:15:14 ◼   ► myself to the tambien synapse is

01:15:16 ◼   ► excellent and that is a backpack but

01:15:19 ◼   ► that's probably not useful so does one

01:15:22 ◼   ► of you have a backpack recommendation

01:15:23 ◼   ► that you enjoy I have so to me backpacks

01:15:27 ◼   ► are kind of like the way most people

01:15:28 ◼   ► think of to do apps and like you know

01:15:31 ◼   ► task managers I'm always

01:15:34 ◼   ► about 80 percent satisfied with the

01:15:35 ◼   ► backpack I have and I'm frequently

01:15:37 ◼   ► trying new ones as a result and so I

01:15:41 ◼   ► have tried some of the really nice ones

01:15:43 ◼   ► actually you know some of these are

01:15:44 ◼   ► wonderful I have the the water-filled

01:15:48 ◼   ► designs staad laptop backpack they made

01:15:51 ◼   ► they make a bunch of good stuff and

01:15:53 ◼   ► that's that's very good hold 215 is just

01:15:56 ◼   ► fine I have a really nice Briggs & Riley

01:16:00 ◼   ► backpack I was something like 200 bucks

01:16:03 ◼   ► and I forget exactly which model it is

01:16:06 ◼   ► one of like the active series that's

01:16:08 ◼   ► pretty nice too I recently got a peak

01:16:12 ◼   ► design everyday backpack and that's also

01:16:15 ◼   ► really nice ultimately all of these are

01:16:19 ◼   ► very good none of them are perfect I

01:16:22 ◼   ► have not yet tried Tom Ben I believe the

01:16:24 ◼   ► synapse 25 would be the one to get out

01:16:26 ◼   ► looking at that I would I would love to

01:16:29 ◼   ► see it sometime I might end up trying it

01:16:31 ◼   ► anyway but all of these have pluses

01:16:36 ◼   ► minuses and it depends a lot on what

01:16:37 ◼   ► you're doing if you're using it for like

01:16:40 ◼   ► everyday carrying it to work that's a

01:16:43 ◼   ► very different type of needs from if you

01:16:46 ◼   ► are using it like to bring it on planes

01:16:47 ◼   ► and travel with it or to also have like

01:16:50 ◼   ► you know a weekend worth of clothing and

01:16:51 ◼   ► stuff in it like these are very

01:16:53 ◼   ► different needs the water-filled one is

01:16:55 ◼   ► beautiful

01:16:56 ◼   ► very stylish trendy looks nice the

01:16:59 ◼   ► Briggs & Riley one I found has a lot of

01:17:04 ◼   ► pluses to it but ultimately I didn't

01:17:07 ◼   ► care for the layout of the interior

01:17:10 ◼   ► space like a lot of things are hard to

01:17:13 ◼   ► reach hard to access there's a lot of

01:17:14 ◼   ► seemingly wasted space with like weird

01:17:16 ◼   ► padding areas and stuff that I don't

01:17:18 ◼   ► think need to be there or should be

01:17:19 ◼   ► arranged differently the peak design

01:17:22 ◼   ► everyday backpack is my current one I've

01:17:24 ◼   ► got it recently and it also is very nice

01:17:29 ◼   ► with a few flaws it really does not hold

01:17:31 ◼   ► very much I got the smaller one of the

01:17:33 ◼   ► two and I'm kind of thinking maybe the

01:17:35 ◼   ► bigger one might've been the better bet

01:17:36 ◼   ► it's it's fine in that way but it if you

01:17:40 ◼   ► it's it holds plenty if you want it to

01:17:43 ◼   ► be like a laptop bag going to work I

01:17:45 ◼   ► would say though for a 15-inch MacBook

01:17:47 ◼   ► Pro

01:17:47 ◼   ► it just barely fits in the peak design

01:17:50 ◼   ► like the laptop pocket is very tight its

01:17:52 ◼   ► squeezing my laptop such that I'm

01:17:54 ◼   ► getting keyboard imprints on the screen

01:17:56 ◼   ► so I don't love that I honestly would

01:17:58 ◼   ► not recommend it for daily use if only

01:18:01 ◼   ► for that whereas the the water-filled

01:18:04 ◼   ► staad I think is better for that but at

01:18:07 ◼   ► these prices I expect I expect like

01:18:11 ◼   ► perfection at four to pay you know $300

01:18:14 ◼   ► ish for a backpack and I haven't found

01:18:16 ◼   ► that yet so I'm all ears if anybody has

01:18:18 ◼   ► something else they'd like but

01:18:19 ◼   ► ultimately I think that it's the kind of

01:18:21 ◼   ► category where like what's perfect for

01:18:24 ◼   ► one person is gonna be totally wrong for

01:18:26 ◼   ► another person and it's all gonna be a

01:18:27 ◼   ► personal preference and you just got to

01:18:29 ◼   ► you know try it out and see for yourself

01:18:30 ◼   ► yeah yeah so the closest I've got to a

01:18:33 ◼   ► backpack that I really like is actually

01:18:35 ◼   ► it's not sold anymore but there's an

01:18:36 ◼   ► equivalent is this LL Bean backpack I I

01:18:40 ◼   ► don't know what that model mine is but

01:18:41 ◼   ► the closest one they have is now called

01:18:43 ◼   ► the quad backpack and it's it's so close

01:18:45 ◼   ► I like I like backpacks first of all

01:18:47 ◼   ► that are cheap this is like 80 bucks

01:18:48 ◼   ► they have tons of little pockets

01:18:50 ◼   ► everywhere on them so you can put all

01:18:52 ◼   ► those dongles that we need then this

01:18:53 ◼   ► dongle lifestyle that we have now it's

01:18:56 ◼   ► got an inside pocket they will fit any

01:18:58 ◼   ► you know fit a 15-inch laptop and it

01:19:00 ◼   ► also an iPad inside a case inside that

01:19:02 ◼   ► same pocket and then it's got tons of

01:19:04 ◼   ► other interior space and all sorts of

01:19:05 ◼   ► little pockets and it's kind of it's not

01:19:08 ◼   ► fashionable it's not made of nice

01:19:09 ◼   ► material so just kind of like durable

01:19:11 ◼   ► kind of like kind of like camping type

01:19:12 ◼   ► equipment right it's not there's no

01:19:14 ◼   ► leather anywhere on this thing right so

01:19:16 ◼   ► if you want to look good forget about it

01:19:18 ◼   ► the one thing that annoys me about this

01:19:19 ◼   ► backpack then you should be warned about

01:19:21 ◼   ► is that it has tons of weird straps

01:19:23 ◼   ► everywhere you're like oh if you're

01:19:24 ◼   ► stuffing it filled the camping stuff you

01:19:27 ◼   ► need the strap that goes around your

01:19:28 ◼   ► waist and the straps the two straps on

01:19:29 ◼   ► the side that hold my backpack together

01:19:31 ◼   ► and I considered cutting them off but

01:19:33 ◼   ► it's actually kind of hard to cut them

01:19:34 ◼   ► off cuz it's pretty durable so but I

01:19:36 ◼   ► have found a way to tuck the straps that

01:19:38 ◼   ► I'm not using into some of the pockets

01:19:40 ◼   ► so they're mostly out of the way it's

01:19:41 ◼   ► still an annoyance if it didn't have

01:19:43 ◼   ► those straps I think it would be close

01:19:44 ◼   ► to perfect for me because that's what I

01:19:46 ◼   ► want to know if you cheap durable light

01:19:48 ◼   ► and have tons of pockets and zippers and

01:19:50 ◼   ► not fall apart and so far other cell

01:19:53 ◼   ► being back practice fit the bill I will

01:19:55 ◼   ► say to in for the peak design everyday

01:19:57 ◼   ► backpack it really excels at hiding all

01:20:00 ◼   ► of the extra straps and

01:20:01 ◼   ► stuff that it can that can be used in

01:20:03 ◼   ► pink like every strap that it has has

01:20:05 ◼   ► some kind of pocket that it belongs in

01:20:08 ◼   ► when it's not being used and so it's

01:20:10 ◼   ► totally invisible out of the way it is

01:20:12 ◼   ► very well designed for like expansion of

01:20:15 ◼   ► that but yeah ultimately like I I wish

01:20:18 ◼   ► it was a little bigger something I might

01:20:19 ◼   ► have to try the bigger version of it but

01:20:21 ◼   ► and I also wished that like apartment

01:20:23 ◼   ► wasn't so crushing but hopefully this

01:20:25 ◼   ► summer I'll moved to a 13 inch newer one

01:20:27 ◼   ► and that should probably solve that

01:20:28 ◼   ► problem for me do you guys are do

01:20:30 ◼   ► packing cubes when you travel not in the

01:20:35 ◼   ► traditional sense I do have that go pack

01:20:37 ◼   ► that I talk about all the time that is

01:20:38 ◼   ► sort of ish like a packing cube that's

01:20:42 ◼   ► just basically got all my dongles and

01:20:44 ◼   ► things of that nature in it but what

01:20:46 ◼   ► you're talking about I think is you know

01:20:48 ◼   ► packing like clothes and other things of

01:20:49 ◼   ► that nature in packing cubes and this

01:20:52 ◼   ► appeals to me from an organizational

01:20:54 ◼   ► standpoint I feel like this is something

01:20:56 ◼   ► that I would really like but I've never

01:20:58 ◼   ► done it and it doesn't seem like I don't

01:21:01 ◼   ► really get why people would do this even

01:21:04 ◼   ► though it sounds like it would be

01:21:05 ◼   ► something I would like you know what I

01:21:06 ◼   ► mean so what are you asking because you

01:21:09 ◼   ► haven't or because you're trying it now

01:21:10 ◼   ► or what brings this up so I recently

01:21:12 ◼   ► started a lot of our friends travel a

01:21:15 ◼   ► lot way more than I do and and I kept

01:21:18 ◼   ► hearing from people like oh you gotta

01:21:19 ◼   ► try packing cubes or or just generally

01:21:21 ◼   ► like like the the style of traveling or

01:21:24 ◼   ► packing where you have like sub bags in

01:21:27 ◼   ► your bags you know that's all packing

01:21:29 ◼   ► cubes are are just like you know

01:21:31 ◼   ► rectangular solid sub bags that you put

01:21:33 ◼   ► in your bags that's that's basically it

01:21:35 ◼   ► and so you know III was usually of the

01:21:39 ◼   ► style of using the bags pockets as

01:21:43 ◼   ► dividers and compartments but the the

01:21:46 ◼   ► packing cube and sub bag lifestyle seems

01:21:49 ◼   ► to want to have just like large open

01:21:52 ◼   ► compartments in the bags and then you

01:21:55 ◼   ► have your own like sub bag things that

01:21:57 ◼   ► you put in there that are separate from

01:22:00 ◼   ► that at to be your separation

01:22:02 ◼   ► organization and so I've recently tried

01:22:05 ◼   ► I wanted to when I got my cool peak

01:22:07 ◼   ► design everyday backpack I decided to

01:22:09 ◼   ► also try the packing cube lifestyle for

01:22:11 ◼   ► a couple of these trips I've taken

01:22:12 ◼   ► recently and

01:22:13 ◼   ► I kind of say I see the benefit it's

01:22:15 ◼   ► pretty cool like Tiffany fundamentally

01:22:17 ◼   ► but then she wanted to sum as soon as

01:22:19 ◼   ► she saw how they worked because what's

01:22:21 ◼   ► nice about them is that there's a few

01:22:23 ◼   ► benefits number one like it is actually

01:22:26 ◼   ► nicer to organize things that way in a

01:22:27 ◼   ► bag and if you get the compression cubes

01:22:30 ◼   ► that have like slightly compressing

01:22:32 ◼   ► zippers around there around the

01:22:33 ◼   ► perimeter it actually does help compress

01:22:36 ◼   ► your clothes slightly in a controlled

01:22:37 ◼   ► way that doesn't like you know

01:22:38 ◼   ► excessively wrinkle them or anything but

01:22:40 ◼   ► a really nice thing about the packing

01:22:41 ◼   ► cubes is that if when you arrive at a

01:22:44 ◼   ► hotel you can just take the pack and

01:22:46 ◼   ► cube it right out of your bag and just

01:22:47 ◼   ► place them like in the drawers if you if

01:22:49 ◼   ► you use the drawers in hotel you could

01:22:51 ◼   ► put them the drawers and open them up

01:22:52 ◼   ► and then you have like oh here's my sock

01:22:54 ◼   ► rectangle you know here's my shirt

01:22:56 ◼   ► rectangle and it's like it's actually

01:22:58 ◼   ► really nice and so I think I've been

01:23:02 ◼   ► converted I want to do a little more

01:23:03 ◼   ► traveling with them I've done two trips

01:23:05 ◼   ► so far with them but I think I'm being

01:23:08 ◼   ► converted to the the sub bag and packing

01:23:11 ◼   ► cube lifestyle mm-hmm so what you you

01:23:14 ◼   ► said you have one for socks in like one

01:23:15 ◼   ► for shirts or like what did you end up

01:23:17 ◼   ► doing so I got a variety of sizes if

01:23:21 ◼   ► you're looking at the at the Eagle Creek

01:23:22 ◼   ► ones I would say the small and medium

01:23:25 ◼   ► sizes are the ones to get at the rest of

01:23:27 ◼   ► the sizes I have not yet found much of a

01:23:28 ◼   ► use for so small medium and compression

01:23:31 ◼   ► if possible and and they're not cheap

01:23:34 ◼   ► they end up being like 25 bucks each

01:23:36 ◼   ► something like that but but they did

01:23:37 ◼   ► they do seem pretty well-made I have

01:23:39 ◼   ► like the the tech line that has like

01:23:41 ◼   ► slightly higher tech fabric and a little

01:23:43 ◼   ► bit lighter I haven't quite worked the

01:23:44 ◼   ► whole system yet but I have like you

01:23:45 ◼   ► know one of them will basically put like

01:23:47 ◼   ► all my underwear and socks in and this

01:23:49 ◼   ► depends on like how much you need to

01:23:50 ◼   ► bring and I'm only again use this for

01:23:52 ◼   ► two trips so far so take all this with a

01:23:53 ◼   ► grain of salt but like all underwear and

01:23:55 ◼   ► socks were going one and then all

01:23:56 ◼   ► t-shirts will go in another and then if

01:23:59 ◼   ► I'm if I've had if having extra pants

01:24:00 ◼   ► I'll put those in one and that's about

01:24:02 ◼   ► it they have something that you can you

01:24:04 ◼   ► can fold like dress shirts into I

01:24:06 ◼   ► haven't tried that yet it's it's just

01:24:07 ◼   ► it's kind of nice and then it's it makes

01:24:11 ◼   ► it easier to pack it makes it more more

01:24:13 ◼   ► organized in the bag to get stuff or if

01:24:16 ◼   ► you have to move stuff around in the bag

01:24:17 ◼   ► fit to rearrange stuff it's surprisingly

01:24:19 ◼   ► nice like I I thought they were

01:24:20 ◼   ► pointless but now I get it

01:24:22 ◼   ► and I'm sold you know I've tried a new

01:24:27 ◼   ► thought

01:24:27 ◼   ► technology with regard to packing which

01:24:29 ◼   ► is rolling rather than folding the

01:24:31 ◼   ► rolling people oh yeah you roll the

01:24:33 ◼   ► stuff into the packing cubes that's it

01:24:35 ◼   ► helps a lot I feel like it's probably a

01:24:38 ◼   ► placebo but I really feel like I can get

01:24:42 ◼   ► considerably more stuff into my bag when

01:24:44 ◼   ► it's rolled and it's more likely to come

01:24:46 ◼   ► out less wrinkled it is still a wrinkled

01:24:49 ◼   ► disaster but it is less so then when I

01:24:52 ◼   ► think and and so I have been converted

01:24:55 ◼   ► to the rolling lifestyle that like I

01:24:57 ◼   ► said that's a nice thought technology in

01:24:58 ◼   ► my world that I have embraced but but

01:25:01 ◼   ► yeah the packing cube is still beyond me

01:25:03 ◼   ► John why do you scoff it rolling you're

01:25:06 ◼   ► not a fan a couple of reasons

01:25:10 ◼   ► I'm not into rolling and I'm not into

01:25:12 ◼   ► the packing things the rolling well the

01:25:15 ◼   ► same reason I guess and I feel like all

01:25:19 ◼   ► my items of clothing have a natural size

01:25:22 ◼   ► that they want to be folded at and that

01:25:24 ◼   ► size is not rolled and it probably

01:25:26 ◼   ► doesn't match any of the packing things

01:25:28 ◼   ► like they I need to fold things at the

01:25:31 ◼   ► size that they want to be folded they

01:25:33 ◼   ► speak to me like how big should I be and

01:25:35 ◼   ► if I tried you may default my shirts

01:25:37 ◼   ► bigger or smaller maybe because I'm a

01:25:39 ◼   ► limited folder maybe I have a limited

01:25:40 ◼   ► repertoire of folding skills like I'm

01:25:42 ◼   ► not good at folding laundry I fold

01:25:43 ◼   ► things the way I fold them I know that

01:25:45 ◼   ► the garment tell me how it wants to be

01:25:47 ◼   ► folded right and the other thing is with

01:25:49 ◼   ► my let the garments speak to me and tell

01:25:51 ◼   ► me how to folding combined with my

01:25:53 ◼   ► fairly obsessive over packing I can pack

01:25:57 ◼   ► any of my suitcases easily to the point

01:26:00 ◼   ► where they exceed the weight limit that

01:26:01 ◼   ► airlines have so I don't need any

01:26:03 ◼   ► compression thing to help me get more

01:26:05 ◼   ► into the bag if anything I have to

01:26:07 ◼   ► intentionally pack less efficiently so I

01:26:09 ◼   ► don't go over the weight limit and have

01:26:10 ◼   ► to pull things out of my bag to get it

01:26:12 ◼   ► on the plane because the weight limits

01:26:14 ◼   ► are like what 50 pounds at 4050 pounds

01:26:16 ◼   ► well it's it's not a weight limit so

01:26:17 ◼   ► much as there's a fee if you go over it

01:26:19 ◼   ► yeah well anyway I don't want to have

01:26:21 ◼   ► that fee and I don't wanna go over the

01:26:22 ◼   ► limit and sometimes actually is a limit

01:26:23 ◼   ► that will make you have another check

01:26:24 ◼   ► another bag or something so I am always

01:26:27 ◼   ► on the ragged edge of that limit with no

01:26:30 ◼   ► packing cubes and no rolling and folding

01:26:31 ◼   ► my clothes the way they naturally want

01:26:34 ◼   ► to be folded so I feel like this is not

01:26:36 ◼   ► a problem I have in my life and I'm not

01:26:37 ◼   ► looking at for ways to Jam more stuff

01:26:39 ◼   ► into my suitcase and I'm definitely not

01:26:41 ◼   ► looking for ways to make me have to

01:26:42 ◼   ► learn how to fold my clothes in a

01:26:43 ◼   ► different way than the one and only way

01:26:45 ◼   ► I know how to fold them well it is

01:26:46 ◼   ► really nice if like if you're checking a

01:26:48 ◼   ► bag then yeah you're right the weight

01:26:49 ◼   ► limit is usually a bigger problem but

01:26:51 ◼   ► it's really nice if you are kind of on

01:26:53 ◼   ► the border between needing to check it

01:26:55 ◼   ► and being able to fit in a carry-on and

01:26:56 ◼   ► I love just traveling with a carry-on if

01:26:59 ◼   ► possible oh so nice to just bypass the

01:27:01 ◼   ► baggage claim and just walk right it

01:27:03 ◼   ► just leave and you're just you're just

01:27:04 ◼   ► done you have what you have everything

01:27:06 ◼   ► you need with you you just walk out and

01:27:07 ◼   ► you're done like that's wonderful so

01:27:10 ◼   ► where this stuff helps is not in

01:27:13 ◼   ► cramming you know 75 pounds or the stuff

01:27:15 ◼   ► into a very large check bag but in

01:27:18 ◼   ► fitting into a carry-on where otherwise

01:27:20 ◼   ► you might not have fit into a carry-on

01:27:22 ◼   ► or your underscore not even having an

01:27:25 ◼   ► carry hunt but just having a backpack

01:27:27 ◼   ► for an entire week which it still blows

01:27:29 ◼   ► my mind cuz I like I said I'm a massive

01:27:31 ◼   ► over packer and he apparently needs no

01:27:33 ◼   ► human sustenance of any kind it is very

01:27:37 ◼   ► satisfying to have to be to be packed

01:27:41 ◼   ► very lightly on a trip and to need very

01:27:43 ◼   ► little and to use everything you have

01:27:44 ◼   ► like I actually I tried one of the

01:27:47 ◼   ► traffickers took was this this trip

01:27:48 ◼   ► where I was helping my fellow man remove

01:27:50 ◼   ► and because I was gonna be like you know

01:27:52 ◼   ► taking space in a very full moving

01:27:55 ◼   ► convoy of the trucks I didn't want to

01:27:58 ◼   ► have a large bag myself I figure that

01:27:59 ◼   ► was wasteful and and you know I want to

01:28:01 ◼   ► leave as much space as possible for his

01:28:02 ◼   ► stuff you've got a whole moving truck

01:28:04 ◼   ► you afraid you aren't gonna have room

01:28:05 ◼   ► you have a moving truck no you haven't

01:28:06 ◼   ► even a stuff but it was it was full and

01:28:10 ◼   ► so I brought for this trip I brought

01:28:12 ◼   ► only my peak design everyday backpack

01:28:15 ◼   ► and I shoved everything I needed for

01:28:17 ◼   ► three days or four days whatever was

01:28:20 ◼   ► into this backpack it was glorious like

01:28:23 ◼   ► there was no space left over and I had

01:28:25 ◼   ► to do some pretty crazy stuff I only had

01:28:27 ◼   ► one pair of pants but it was glorious to

01:28:30 ◼   ► have everything fit in in like one

01:28:33 ◼   ► backpack including my computer these two

01:28:36 ◼   ► walkie-talkies some accessories for

01:28:38 ◼   ► driving like I brought like my cell

01:28:39 ◼   ► phone suction cup piece of garbage like

01:28:41 ◼   ► I like I brought a whole bunch of like

01:28:43 ◼   ► you know stuff that would that would be

01:28:44 ◼   ► necessary for the trip coffee tubes yeah

01:28:46 ◼   ► I brought my my tubes of instant coffee

01:28:48 ◼   ► Southern coffee so does now it matters

01:28:52 ◼   ► all your items of clothing smelly coffee

01:28:54 ◼   ► wedged into this bag with the coffee

01:28:56 ◼   ► tubes no the tubes are sealed all right

01:28:58 ◼   ► no no no said they were canvas I thought

01:29:00 ◼   ► maybe they'd be no no they're plastic

01:29:02 ◼   ► tubes like that come in a pretty canvas

01:29:04 ◼   ► bag yeah so and it is very satisfying I

01:29:08 ◼   ► would love like to travel with everybody

01:29:10 ◼   ► see I would love to travel with just

01:29:11 ◼   ► like one of the like the smallest roller

01:29:14 ◼   ► bag size you know that like but the

01:29:16 ◼   ► pilots usually have I have one of those

01:29:18 ◼   ► it's glorious I love being on offense

01:29:20 ◼   ► that the only reason I don't for

01:29:21 ◼   ► everybody to see is that we we bring

01:29:24 ◼   ► like all podcasts to do so so I might

01:29:26 ◼   ► have all this gear but like I'm trips

01:29:28 ◼   ► where I don't have that I love packing

01:29:29 ◼   ► as small as possible

01:29:30 ◼   ► sure maybe you can put the fit the

01:29:33 ◼   ► podcasting studio in one of his inside

01:29:35 ◼   ► jacket pockets I really want to just

01:29:40 ◼   ► emphasize what you guys are saying about

01:29:43 ◼   ► underscores packing because we for a

01:29:45 ◼   ► long time would fly out together I would

01:29:47 ◼   ► drive up to Dulles which is which is

01:29:49 ◼   ► reasonably close to his house and we

01:29:50 ◼   ► would take the same flight and try to

01:29:52 ◼   ► sit next to each other and whatnot and I

01:29:54 ◼   ► would be rolling in with like my laptop

01:29:56 ◼   ► bag which is bursting at the seams and

01:29:58 ◼   ► it's in a carry-on bag which was

01:30:00 ◼   ► bursting at the seams and that pain in

01:30:02 ◼   ► my rear end rolls in with like a lightly

01:30:04 ◼   ► stuffed backpack it's not even like a

01:30:08 ◼   ► lightly packed backpack and that is all

01:30:11 ◼   ► he has that's his computer that's his

01:30:13 ◼   ► toiletries his luggage everything is

01:30:16 ◼   ► bleep packed for a week it's inhuman

01:30:19 ◼   ► I've asked him about this every year a

01:30:21 ◼   ► spell of this and every year he's just

01:30:23 ◼   ► gotta shrugs and smirks and basically

01:30:25 ◼   ► says I don't need a lot it's so it's

01:30:27 ◼   ► both delightful and in fear he hating

01:30:30 ◼   ► all at the same time because I'm like

01:30:31 ◼   ► John I Peck way too much in over the

01:30:34 ◼   ► years I have gotten that beaten out of

01:30:36 ◼   ► me like over time I have gotten better

01:30:38 ◼   ► about not packing everything in the

01:30:40 ◼   ► world and I still pack way too much you

01:30:42 ◼   ► saying what you just described as half

01:30:44 ◼   ► of what I pack B zero like you bag I

01:30:47 ◼   ► have a full-size suitcase like the

01:30:49 ◼   ► biggest the highest weight limit

01:30:51 ◼   ► suitcase you can get and then my

01:30:53 ◼   ► backpack I mean I adore my Owais new

01:30:57 ◼   ► case and they happen to be sponsoring

01:30:58 ◼   ► this episode and they carry on I mean

01:31:00 ◼   ► it's a wonderful wonderful suitcase I

01:31:02 ◼   ► would say that even if we weren't

01:31:04 ◼   ► compensated to say that but it is not

01:31:07 ◼   ► you know half

01:31:08 ◼   ► it's it's it's carry on I mean which

01:31:11 ◼   ► makes sense and I can get you know like

01:31:13 ◼   ► the last year I got my entire week's

01:31:16 ◼   ► worth of luggage my toiletry kit my my

01:31:18 ◼   ► go pack and a pair of running shoes in

01:31:20 ◼   ► there and I was very proud of myself

01:31:21 ◼   ► because for me that was a heck of an

01:31:24 ◼   ► accomplishment and underscore I think he

01:31:27 ◼   ► was wearing you know sneakers for the

01:31:29 ◼   ► for the week so we didn't have to have a

01:31:30 ◼   ► second pair of shoes but he had like

01:31:32 ◼   ► running clothes he probably brought a

01:31:34 ◼   ► damn kettle for his coffee flow I know

01:31:36 ◼   ► this backpack it's like Santa's freaking

01:31:39 ◼   ► bag that he has it's it's an it's

01:31:41 ◼   ► incredible so thanks to our sponsors

01:31:43 ◼   ► this week away aftershocks and Jeff now

01:31:47 ◼   ► and we'll talk to you next week

01:31:49 ◼   ► [Music]

01:32:01 ◼   ► [Music]

01:32:03 ◼   ► research Marco and Casey wouldn't let

01:32:06 ◼   ► him cuz it was accidentally was

01:32:10 ◼   ► accidental and you can find the show

01:32:14 ◼   ► notes at a follow them CAS pyl ISS and

01:32:27 ◼   ► that's Casey less ma RC own a RM auntie

01:32:32 ◼   ► Marco Arment si are they see you at

01:32:37 ◼   ► Syracuse

01:32:51 ◼   ► by the way for people wondering about

01:32:53 ◼   ► the inside jacket pocket thing

01:32:55 ◼   ► underscore is the first person I saw who

01:32:57 ◼   ► had a macbook won the little 12-inch

01:32:59 ◼   ► MacBook with one USB C port literally

01:33:02 ◼   ► inside his jacket pocket takes out a

01:33:06 ◼   ► laptop yeah his wife custom-made a

01:33:08 ◼   ► pocket she sewed it on the inside of the

01:33:10 ◼   ► jacket that would fit exactly that

01:33:12 ◼   ► laptop and it was amazing to see

01:33:15 ◼   ► somebody especially like underscore as

01:33:17 ◼   ► you men he's like he's so like

01:33:19 ◼   ► frustratingly organized all the time

01:33:22 ◼   ► like he he's so like together and he

01:33:25 ◼   ► just like and and everything he does he

01:33:28 ◼   ► makes look he makes it look effortless

01:33:29 ◼   ► it's just no big deal like totally he

01:33:33 ◼   ► has all the grace in the world like just

01:33:35 ◼   ► and so like he's just like yeah we're

01:33:37 ◼   ► like we were standing in line at the at

01:33:39 ◼   ► the last Santa the last WC in San

01:33:41 ◼   ► Francisco we were outside that whatever

01:33:43 ◼   ► Center that it was we had to walk all

01:33:45 ◼   ► the way over they get to get there and

01:33:46 ◼   ► he just like whips this ad like we were

01:33:48 ◼   ► like oh we should check that sometime or

01:33:50 ◼   ► you know and he just he's like oh I'll

01:33:52 ◼   ► check it right now and he whips out this

01:33:54 ◼   ► laptop out of his jacket walking with

01:34:01 ◼   ► him standing in line with him it's like

01:34:02 ◼   ► you know yeah we had no idea and it was

01:34:04 ◼   ► like a it was like a fleece it was not

01:34:06 ◼   ► like a big winter coat it was it was

01:34:08 ◼   ► like a light fleece oh man I love that

01:34:10 ◼   ► guy but there's certain there's certain

01:34:12 ◼   ► times that I want to strangle him in the

01:34:14 ◼   ► best possible way and that's one of them

01:34:15 ◼   ► because I really you know what it is

01:34:17 ◼   ► about underscore is that he he very very

01:34:21 ◼   ► well reflects to me my own failings but

01:34:26 ◼   ► he's like the nicest human being in the

01:34:27 ◼   ► world and so you can't be upset at him

01:34:30 ◼   ► because he's the nicest guy ever yeah

01:34:32 ◼   ► like my favorite compliment I ever

01:34:35 ◼   ► received was I I once I had sent John

01:34:38 ◼   ► Gruber some of my home roasted coffee he

01:34:40 ◼   ► said I almost want to say fuck you this

01:34:41 ◼   ► is so good and that's kind of how it's

01:34:44 ◼   ► like one underscore does something

01:34:45 ◼   ► awesome and I'm like it's almost like

01:34:47 ◼   ► he's such a nice guy like you don't you

01:34:49 ◼   ► can't get mad at him but you're just

01:34:50 ◼   ► like damn it white like yeah yeah why

01:34:52 ◼   ► can I not why have I either not thought

01:34:54 ◼   ► of that or not gotten it together to do

01:34:56 ◼   ► that

01:34:57 ◼   ► it's so true so true just comfort

01:35:00 ◼   ► yourself by thinking that just try to

01:35:02 ◼   ► try a picture in your head underscore

01:35:04 ◼   ► like being frustrated at something I'm

01:35:06 ◼   ► getting and getting angry I don't think

01:35:08 ◼   ► I've ever seen him even mildly like

01:35:12 ◼   ► disturbed like he's never been

01:35:14 ◼   ► particularly angry about anything in my

01:35:17 ◼   ► experience and having known him for

01:35:18 ◼   ► several years now I've never seen him

01:35:21 ◼   ► angry

01:35:21 ◼   ► never seen him particularly upset

01:35:22 ◼   ► sometimes he'll kind of do the

01:35:24 ◼   ► exasperated laugh of oh well that's the

01:35:26 ◼   ► brakes but yeah he's like the least

01:35:30 ◼   ► fazed person I've ever seen in I am I am

01:35:33 ◼   ► somewhat skeptical that he has ever

01:35:35 ◼   ► raised his voice for any reason ever I

01:35:37 ◼   ► believe he has and I pictured that to

01:35:39 ◼   ► make me feel better about myself the

01:35:44 ◼   ► best part of all is he's gonna be

01:35:45 ◼   ► listening to this at some absurd hour

01:35:47 ◼   ► tomorrow morning because he typically

01:35:48 ◼   ► bootlegs all this and he is going to be

01:35:50 ◼   ► so deeply embarrassed by this entire

01:35:52 ◼   ► conversation which isn't actually

01:35:53 ◼   ► something I should be proud of but it is

01:35:55 ◼   ► making me laugh a little bit maybe

01:35:57 ◼   ► that's his one flaw that's the one his

01:36:00 ◼   ► one flaw excessive modesty Wow job

01:36:07 ◼   ► interview responses what's your worst

01:36:11 ◼   ► [Laughter]

01:36:11 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:00:00 ◼   ► so how was the trip did we talk about

00:00:01 ◼   ► this publicly I don't know that we did

00:00:03 ◼   ► are we talking about this publicly

00:00:04 ◼   ► whether or not it makes the show the

00:00:06 ◼   ► only thing that made the show is the

00:00:06 ◼   ► walkie talkie bit okay where John was

00:00:09 ◼   ► making fun of me for buying

00:00:10 ◼   ► walkie-talkies for a road trip yeah I do

00:00:14 ◼   ► want to hear about that but not this

00:00:15 ◼   ► minute but how is the other parts of the

00:00:17 ◼   ► trip just out of curiosity no hey wait

00:00:20 ◼   ► way too many combos enjoy you're a good

00:00:24 ◼   ► roadside coffee or did you bring a

00:00:26 ◼   ► gigantic thermos of coffee with you oh

00:00:29 ◼   ► you're gonna make so much fun of me if I

00:00:31 ◼   ► mentioned this before I I have a God I

00:00:34 ◼   ► have a monthly subscription to a fancy

00:00:37 ◼   ► hipster instant coffee thing from San

00:00:39 ◼   ► Francisco why I get eight little tubes

00:00:44 ◼   ► of instant coffee powder a month

00:00:46 ◼   ► delivered in a little canvas bag and

00:00:48 ◼   ► they cost like a dollar fifty each

00:00:51 ◼   ► it's a subscription and it's insta

00:00:55 ◼   ► coffee you dump it into water and it

00:00:56 ◼   ► makes good coffee it's it's basically

00:00:58 ◼   ► they're a really good version of instant

00:01:00 ◼   ► coffee and it turns out instant coffee

00:01:02 ◼   ► got popular for very good reasons it's

00:01:04 ◼   ► pretty damn convenient when you're

00:01:05 ◼   ► traveling you know like I'm on the plane

00:01:07 ◼   ► I got a cup of hot water please and I

00:01:09 ◼   ► got a hot water cup and I dumped my

00:01:10 ◼   ► coffee into it and stirred it up and had

00:01:12 ◼   ► my like insufferable hipster coffee

00:01:14 ◼   ► right there on the plane it was

00:01:17 ◼   ► wonderful he would i'm so sorry for

00:01:19 ◼   ► anybody who cares that the sudden coffee

00:01:20 ◼   ► that's the name of it because it's not

00:01:22 ◼   ► instant it's sudden ha ha sounds like

00:01:26 ◼   ► like it surprises you a cup of water and

00:01:29 ◼   ► almost brown anyway it's not cheap but

00:01:41 ◼   ► it's pretty good if anybody needs this

00:01:42 ◼   ► kind of thing it's pretty that's pretty

00:01:44 ◼   ► much that your motto it's not cheap but

00:01:46 ◼   ► it's good this is why I like I like

00:01:48 ◼   ► anybody listening is probably like of

00:01:50 ◼   ► course I have that surprising this is

00:01:54 ◼   ► surprising I thought you're gonna say

00:01:55 ◼   ► you have like the underscore kit where

00:01:57 ◼   ► you have this is entire a bunch of

00:01:59 ◼   ► paraphernalia that you'd take out in the

00:02:00 ◼   ► car including a little table lap desk to

00:02:03 ◼   ► set it all up on plug in a kettle into

00:02:06 ◼   ► the 12 volt socket in the car and just

00:02:08 ◼   ► you know I used to do that kind of like

00:02:11 ◼   ► fancy you know III brought my ear press

00:02:13 ◼   ► on a couple of

00:02:13 ◼   ► trips and it was just such a pain I have

00:02:16 ◼   ► I got a travel grinder and everything

00:02:18 ◼   ► like it and I just I found that not

00:02:21 ◼   ► worth the hassle and so instead I for a

00:02:24 ◼   ► while I would just drink tea on trips

00:02:26 ◼   ► I'd bring my own fancy tea bags but I

00:02:28 ◼   ► don't like tea that much and you know

00:02:29 ◼   ► coffees better and so I I found this and

00:02:33 ◼   ► I decided oh you know even though it's a

00:02:35 ◼   ► subscription which I don't like I'm like

00:02:36 ◼   ► well I'll try it I'll see how it is and

00:02:39 ◼   ► it's been good enough that I kept it up

00:02:41 ◼   ► like I I use it I don't I don't always

00:02:43 ◼   ► use it regularly like sometimes like

00:02:45 ◼   ► I'll accumulate a couple extras that I

00:02:47 ◼   ► haven't used in the last month but it's

00:02:49 ◼   ► fantastic for road trips sometimes I'll

00:02:51 ◼   ► just tear up one of those tubes and dump

00:02:53 ◼   ► it in his mouth he doesn't care I

00:02:54 ◼   ► actually did that once I was on a road

00:02:59 ◼   ► trip and I was I didn't want to stop to

00:03:01 ◼   ► get like a cup of hot water because like

00:03:03 ◼   ► there was no good place nearby to do

00:03:04 ◼   ► that so I just kind of slowly ate the

00:03:07 ◼   ► crystals tasted fine a little strong

00:03:11 ◼   ► that's really sad somewhat someone draw

00:03:12 ◼   ► a comic is that how come people never

00:03:14 ◼   ► draw comics for our show somebody drops

00:03:16 ◼   ► a demarco eating the instant coffee

00:03:17 ◼   ► hipster instant coffee out of the tube

00:03:19 ◼   ► maybe a little tear it tear going down

00:03:22 ◼   ► his outside of his space driving on the

00:03:24 ◼   ► Long Island Expressway well another

00:03:25 ◼   ► reason right here all right let's start

00:03:31 ◼   ► with some follow up John tell me about

00:03:33 ◼   ► breath of the wild on the WiiU last week

00:03:35 ◼   ► what are we talking about it oh you're

00:03:37 ◼   ► talking about bitna Civ consoles is one

00:03:38 ◼   ► of the ask ATP questions and I was

00:03:40 ◼   ► telling me about how power still makes a

00:03:42 ◼   ► difference in the modern era and talk

00:03:44 ◼   ► about a game like breath of the wild

00:03:45 ◼   ► which is a large open world a zelda game

00:03:47 ◼   ► and how you couldn't play it on a less

00:03:49 ◼   ► powerful console and I said the Wii U

00:03:51 ◼   ► and I should have just said the weak

00:03:52 ◼   ► because obviously in the grand tradition

00:03:55 ◼   ► I guess two two data points my tradition

00:03:57 ◼   ► of Zelda games that are initially

00:03:59 ◼   ► developed for one console but take so

00:04:01 ◼   ► long to get done that the second console

00:04:04 ◼   ► comes out and then they launch it on

00:04:06 ◼   ► both consoles simultaneously that was

00:04:08 ◼   ► the case with the breath of the wild was

00:04:10 ◼   ► actually developed for the Wii U and

00:04:11 ◼   ► only later launched on the switch and

00:04:15 ◼   ► that happened with Twilight Princess for

00:04:17 ◼   ► the Gamecube and the Wii although

00:04:19 ◼   ► Twilight Princess I highly recommend

00:04:21 ◼   ► playing it on the Gamecube but not on

00:04:22 ◼   ► the Wii because the motion controls are

00:04:24 ◼   ► not very good so a surprisingly small

00:04:27 ◼   ► number of people sent in that correction

00:04:29 ◼   ► but to the people who did a good job pin

00:04:32 ◼   ► to everyone else John is disappointed

00:04:34 ◼   ► yes seriously pretty big pretty big gap

00:04:38 ◼   ► in the grand scheme of things if it was

00:04:40 ◼   ► a maybe if it was about like Apple stuff

00:04:42 ◼   ► we would've got more people half of the

00:04:44 ◼   ► internet wrote in to tell us that the

00:04:46 ◼   ► space gray keyboard mouse and Magic

00:04:48 ◼   ► Trackpad are all available separately

00:04:50 ◼   ► now if that's your cup of tea

00:04:52 ◼   ► I am currently fondling and touching a

00:04:55 ◼   ► Space Gray keyboard and I have a Space

00:04:57 ◼   ► Gray magic magic mouse next to me and I

00:05:00 ◼   ► have a Space Gray magic trap track bed

00:05:02 ◼   ► that I use from time to time these were

00:05:03 ◼   ► all secondhand from friend of the show

00:05:05 ◼   ► underscore David Smith who did not

00:05:07 ◼   ► charge me a premium however Apple will

00:05:09 ◼   ► charge you a $20 price premium because

00:05:10 ◼   ► Apple yeah what is it that the dark ones

00:05:14 ◼   ► I mean technically they could do this

00:05:16 ◼   ► with any color let's just make fewer of

00:05:18 ◼   ► them and then charge more because

00:05:19 ◼   ► they're more rare sure you do a little

00:05:21 ◼   ► time but in general Apple doesn't seem

00:05:23 ◼   ► to do that with things that come in

00:05:24 ◼   ► colors like you can get your phones or

00:05:26 ◼   ► iPads and various colors gold rose gold

00:05:28 ◼   ► Space Gray sometimes they come in black

00:05:31 ◼   ► but there's no price difference between

00:05:33 ◼   ► the colors you know somehow in the Mac

00:05:34 ◼   ► world every time something gets a darker

00:05:36 ◼   ► color it's an extra 20 bucks or

00:05:38 ◼   ► something and I don't know it for some

00:05:41 ◼   ► reason it bothers me that you can get

00:05:43 ◼   ► iOS devices in different colors for the

00:05:47 ◼   ► same price but in the Mac side that's

00:05:48 ◼   ► not the case so anyway I just hope if

00:05:50 ◼   ► you're out there listening this you

00:05:51 ◼   ► didn't buy a Space Gray iMac pro

00:05:54 ◼   ► keyboard for $1,500 on ebay because that

00:05:58 ◼   ► would have been a bad move I kind of

00:05:59 ◼   ► feel like I feel like my iMac pro is

00:06:01 ◼   ► less special now these are available for

00:06:03 ◼   ► to anybody I'm so sorry oh you know

00:06:05 ◼   ► listeners so the show would have been

00:06:07 ◼   ► well warned because this the iMac Rose

00:06:10 ◼   ► came out we were surprised the you know

00:06:13 ◼   ► wasn't our prediction that they wouldn't

00:06:14 ◼   ► sell for a lot of me Bay because people

00:06:15 ◼   ► would realize Apple's gonna introduce

00:06:16 ◼   ► them and then new things will be

00:06:18 ◼   ► worthless but alas that's not the way

00:06:20 ◼   ► people think and so some people did buy

00:06:23 ◼   ► them and sell them apparently for very

00:06:24 ◼   ► high prices on eBay I hope all those

00:06:26 ◼   ► people are sad now

00:06:27 ◼   ► snarky John tonight is everything okay

00:06:30 ◼   ► and the people who sold them are and

00:06:32 ◼   ► said that's true yeah I guess well they

00:06:35 ◼   ► should because they took advantage of

00:06:36 ◼   ► somebody that

00:06:37 ◼   ► feel bad about that ring only if Apple

00:06:39 ◼   ► should not feel bad they're charging $20

00:06:41 ◼   ► more for no reason

00:06:42 ◼   ► $20 premium is better than like a one

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00:08:11 ◼   ► show I would at this point plug our live

00:08:18 ◼   ► show and that is going to be happening

00:08:20 ◼   ► at WV DC on Monday night but it is sold

00:08:22 ◼   ► out so if you happen to have a ticket

00:08:24 ◼   ► and no you won't need it please get in

00:08:26 ◼   ► contact with alt conf and let them know

00:08:29 ◼   ► that or tell a friend or do something

00:08:31 ◼   ► but uh we have no control over

00:08:34 ◼   ► attendance we have no sway over wait

00:08:36 ◼   ► lists or anything like that

00:08:37 ◼   ► so thank you to everyone who has

00:08:39 ◼   ► purchased the ticket we hope to see you

00:08:41 ◼   ► there and it should be really exciting

00:08:44 ◼   ► it'll win one from a friend in a game of

00:08:45 ◼   ► chance I'm assuming this is a reference

00:08:48 ◼   ► I'm not aware of

00:08:49 ◼   ► anyway all right so Marco you went on a

00:08:52 ◼   ► really long road trip recently and you

00:08:54 ◼   ► had mentioned briefly in the last

00:08:56 ◼   ► episode that you had bought some

00:08:57 ◼   ► walkie-talkies to take with you because

00:08:59 ◼   ► it was going to be a multi-car caravan

00:09:01 ◼   ► the last I tried to use walkie-talkies

00:09:04 ◼   ► which was just a handful of years ago

00:09:05 ◼   ► they were promised to work for like 34

00:09:08 ◼   ► zillion miles and worked for about 34

00:09:11 ◼   ► feet so mm-hmm

00:09:12 ◼   ► tell me about your fans I'm sure you

00:09:15 ◼   ► bought the most heinous ly expensive

00:09:16 ◼   ► walkie-talkies you could find tell me

00:09:18 ◼   ► how well or not well they worked so they

00:09:21 ◼   ► were only I think it was something like

00:09:22 ◼   ► sixty or seventy dollars for a pair and

00:09:25 ◼   ► then I loaded all the accessories like

00:09:26 ◼   ► the charging base and everything so I

00:09:28 ◼   ► wouldn't say that was that expensive

00:09:30 ◼   ► it's some kind of Cobra if you look at

00:09:32 ◼   ► the if you look at Amazon like the Cobra

00:09:33 ◼   ► model that is the highest of its group

00:09:37 ◼   ► that's the one I got it's like some like

00:09:38 ◼   ► that for a pair and it's the one it has

00:09:41 ◼   ► a very useful feature this is one of the

00:09:43 ◼   ► reasons I went to this model that it has

00:09:46 ◼   ► a repeat that back button so it keeps a

00:09:49 ◼   ► buffer over the last few things that

00:09:51 ◼   ► were said and so if you miss what

00:09:52 ◼   ► somebody said you can just hit that and

00:09:53 ◼   ► it plays it again which is really useful

00:09:56 ◼   ► anyway John made fun of me relentlessly

00:09:59 ◼   ► for buying walkie-talkies for the for

00:10:01 ◼   ► the purpose of communicating between two

00:10:02 ◼   ► vehicles on a road trip because we have

00:10:04 ◼   ► cell phones and that was a really good

00:10:06 ◼   ► argument cell phones do sound way better

00:10:08 ◼   ► unfortunately it takes a little bit of

00:10:11 ◼   ► time to create a cell phone connection

00:10:13 ◼   ► you have to you know pick up the phone

00:10:15 ◼   ► I'm locking if it's not unlock tap

00:10:16 ◼   ► something find them you know connect oh

00:10:19 ◼   ► walkie talkie you literally just push

00:10:20 ◼   ► button and you immediately can say

00:10:21 ◼   ► something to them I told you you should

00:10:23 ◼   ► have had your phone's connected the

00:10:24 ◼   ► whole time yes we were like listening to

00:10:26 ◼   ► music and podcasts and stuff the whole

00:10:27 ◼   ► time with our phone a muted and when you

00:10:29 ◼   ► want to talk you hit the mute you don't

00:10:30 ◼   ► like your browsing Twitter on it

00:10:31 ◼   ► bouncing up dashboard hit the mute

00:10:33 ◼   ► button mutant you know but the phone was

00:10:36 ◼   ► being used for the media so that that's

00:10:39 ◼   ► no good podcaster music or navigation

00:10:44 ◼   ► directions I was we were also using ways

00:10:46 ◼   ► to navigate you can do all that at once

00:10:47 ◼   ► on your phone mmm

00:10:49 ◼   ► nope you can't play media while you're

00:10:51 ◼   ► up taking a phone call anyway so and

00:10:53 ◼   ► also what I wear these really came in

00:10:56 ◼   ► handy besides the incredibly fast

00:10:58 ◼   ► ability to just push a button and say

00:10:59 ◼   ► something quick like like hey watch out

00:11:01 ◼   ► don't merge left yet or something

00:11:03 ◼   ► that or you wanna stop at this exit you

00:11:04 ◼   ► know really quick stuff but also know

00:11:08 ◼   ► not not the entirety of our trip had

00:11:10 ◼   ► cellphone coverage because we were going

00:11:13 ◼   ► to a very rural place at the end of the

00:11:14 ◼   ► trip the entire last like 45 minutes had

00:11:19 ◼   ► no coverage during which we were on the

00:11:21 ◼   ► walkie-talkies a lot to coordinate

00:11:23 ◼   ► things like where we were gonna Park

00:11:24 ◼   ► this giant truck and how like what

00:11:26 ◼   ► direction I had to face how we were

00:11:27 ◼   ► going to get it that way what we were

00:11:29 ◼   ► gonna do once we got there how we were

00:11:30 ◼   ► gonna like do the very first steps to

00:11:32 ◼   ► unload it and all the logistics involved

00:11:34 ◼   ► they proved to be invaluable everybody

00:11:37 ◼   ► involved in this trip was very very

00:11:39 ◼   ► happy that we had these walkie talkies

00:11:42 ◼   ► they were wonderful in ways that a phone

00:11:45 ◼   ► either would have been worse or would

00:11:46 ◼   ► have not worked at all so John was

00:11:47 ◼   ► totally wrong and to answer Casey's

00:11:49 ◼   ► question the the range I did a little

00:11:53 ◼   ► bit of research obviously when buying

00:11:54 ◼   ► these and it appears you know most of

00:11:57 ◼   ► you most of them seem to quote a range

00:11:59 ◼   ► of somewhere between like 10 and 50

00:12:03 ◼   ► miles and it's not it doesn't take that

00:12:05 ◼   ► much digging to realize that that's

00:12:07 ◼   ► actually like if you're like two people

00:12:09 ◼   ► on top of mountaintops with nothing

00:12:11 ◼   ► between you that's like the most ideal

00:12:14 ◼   ► scenario of like nothing obstructing it

00:12:16 ◼   ► and you know no interference from

00:12:17 ◼   ► anything if you if you do you know if

00:12:21 ◼   ► you use it like in like a more realistic

00:12:22 ◼   ► location like in a town or on a highway

00:12:25 ◼   ► the mileage basically gets cut to a

00:12:28 ◼   ► tenth so it gets decimated right as what

00:12:30 ◼   ► that means and so yeah so it basically

00:12:32 ◼   ► gets you know so you're you're 37 mile

00:12:35 ◼   ► one is actually more like three miles

00:12:37 ◼   ► and and it's and even that is like you

00:12:40 ◼   ► know if you're in a really dense area

00:12:41 ◼   ► like you know in like a city with lots

00:12:43 ◼   ► of buildings and everything it might be

00:12:45 ◼   ► more like one mile you know or it may be

00:12:46 ◼   ► even a half mile in worst case scenario

00:12:48 ◼   ► for the for the thicker ones and there's

00:12:50 ◼   ► a limit on how powerful they can

00:12:53 ◼   ► transmit which I think most of the bands

00:12:55 ◼   ► is 2 watts so that's kind of what limits

00:12:57 ◼   ► like how powerful they can be but yeah

00:13:00 ◼   ► so it was fun it was totally worth it

00:13:02 ◼   ► and they're really you know modern

00:13:03 ◼   ► modern useful things like the like the

00:13:06 ◼   ► playback feature they both can charge by

00:13:08 ◼   ► a USB and or take double-a batteries or

00:13:11 ◼   ► you can put rechargeable batteries in

00:13:12 ◼   ► them and charge them through the USB

00:13:14 ◼   ► ports it's great so

00:13:16 ◼   ► uh John was wrong at the end so just for

00:13:19 ◼   ► the young people listening I want to

00:13:20 ◼   ► assure you that it actually is possible

00:13:21 ◼   ► to take a tandem car trips without

00:13:23 ◼   ► either cellphones for yeah but it sucks

00:13:27 ◼   ► it does suck I would agree with both of

00:13:29 ◼   ► you it's fun you have to make it come up

00:13:30 ◼   ► with systems for signalling and then get

00:13:32 ◼   ► frustrated while the people don't follow

00:13:33 ◼   ► the systems for signaling that's a John

00:13:35 ◼   ► statement if I've ever heard enough it's

00:13:39 ◼   ► like being a spy something like I put my

00:13:41 ◼   ► right hand out the window that means

00:13:44 ◼   ► pull over but my left hand out the

00:13:46 ◼   ► window that means merge alright we

00:13:49 ◼   ► should get to the actual topics for this

00:13:52 ◼   ► evening and something happened on

00:13:54 ◼   ► Tuesday and something something

00:13:55 ◼   ► education moving on let's finally get to

00:13:58 ◼   ► the topic we all want to get to which is

00:14:01 ◼   ► Apple's heyday

00:14:03 ◼   ► let's between you skip but now we're

00:14:07 ◼   ► gonna talk about today we're gonna go

00:14:08 ◼   ► through the event followed by a blog as

00:14:09 ◼   ► there wasn't that much to go through I

00:14:11 ◼   ► thought it was so funny because like

00:14:12 ◼   ► last week we as professional podcasters

00:14:15 ◼   ► completely failed to mention our WTC

00:14:18 ◼   ► live show and also that there was about

00:14:21 ◼   ► to be an Apple event that we all knew

00:14:22 ◼   ► about and we're like ooh but like

00:14:23 ◼   ► everyone else is doing predictions and

00:14:25 ◼   ► at least mentioning this is gonna happen

00:14:26 ◼   ► we completely failed to even mention it

00:14:29 ◼   ► I don't think we failed to because I

00:14:30 ◼   ► knew about it I just didn't think there

00:14:32 ◼   ► was anything worth saying on the last

00:14:33 ◼   ► show I think we talked about it

00:14:35 ◼   ► beforehand and like well you know we'll

00:14:37 ◼   ► see what they announce but until the

00:14:38 ◼   ► like I didn't have high expectations of

00:14:41 ◼   ► what they were gonna announce and so I

00:14:42 ◼   ► didn't really feel like it was worth

00:14:43 ◼   ► discussing until they announce something

00:14:46 ◼   ► I mean I didn't have high expectations

00:14:47 ◼   ► either and they even failed to meet

00:14:49 ◼   ► those I I thought like I thought it'd be

00:14:50 ◼   ► really funny if we just never mentioned

00:14:53 ◼   ► it at all because it was there was so

00:14:55 ◼   ► little really to it that but but

00:14:59 ◼   ► unfortunately John wants to talk about

00:15:01 ◼   ► it so we're gonna talk about it just

00:15:03 ◼   ► just pretend like we never actually

00:15:04 ◼   ► mentioned it and it's funnier that way a

00:15:06 ◼   ► lot of product mountains but I think

00:15:08 ◼   ► there are things to talk about though so

00:15:10 ◼   ► my first question is did you two

00:15:11 ◼   ► actually watch the event nope not live

00:15:14 ◼   ► but I because it was actually during the

00:15:15 ◼   ► road trip that I was taking but I

00:15:17 ◼   ► download the video and watched it that

00:15:18 ◼   ► night Kasey's pooh-poohing this event do

00:15:21 ◼   ► you even watch it they could have had

00:15:23 ◼   ► seven slides about you I have to admit I

00:15:25 ◼   ► also fast forwarded through some parts

00:15:27 ◼   ► of it because it you know what what I do

00:15:30 ◼   ► like about it overall it kind of made me

00:15:34 ◼   ► feel I don't it was a little bit

00:15:36 ◼   ► off-putting

00:15:37 ◼   ► it basically seemed like they were

00:15:39 ◼   ► holding an event to almost like yell at

00:15:43 ◼   ► the world like no look we care about

00:15:45 ◼   ► education but without actually backing

00:15:48 ◼   ► it up with what I consider to be enough

00:15:50 ◼   ► and and the we that could take lots of

00:15:52 ◼   ► different forms and you could disagree

00:15:53 ◼   ► or agree with that but I felt like the

00:15:55 ◼   ► the premise of an education event that

00:15:58 ◼   ► you know like that that's that even they

00:16:00 ◼   ► call the press out and everything and by

00:16:01 ◼   ► the way I if I if I was like an

00:16:05 ◼   ► independent journalist who flew out

00:16:07 ◼   ► there on my own dime to cover this I'd

00:16:08 ◼   ► be pretty annoyed honestly but anyway

00:16:11 ◼   ► and I'm friends with some of these

00:16:13 ◼   ► people and they haven't told me this

00:16:14 ◼   ► behind the scenes I'm just saying like

00:16:15 ◼   ► if I were one of these people like you

00:16:16 ◼   ► know that's I would I would be annoyed

00:16:18 ◼   ► that I had spent the time and money to

00:16:19 ◼   ► do this but the impression I got from

00:16:22 ◼   ► this event was that it was a lot of

00:16:25 ◼   ► cheerleading it was it was almost like a

00:16:27 ◼   ► pep rally for Apple and for teachers

00:16:30 ◼   ► hell accurate giving it was in a school

00:16:32 ◼   ► yeah right yeah but but without enough

00:16:35 ◼   ► substance I thought to back that up it

00:16:36 ◼   ► was it was really more like look at how

00:16:39 ◼   ► great we already are at the things that

00:16:41 ◼   ► we are already doing not so much here's

00:16:44 ◼   ► some you know new new software new

00:16:47 ◼   ► changes new hardware whatever it is like

00:16:48 ◼   ► there was actually very little of that

00:16:50 ◼   ► at least very little of relevance or of

00:16:52 ◼   ► significance and there was just a lot

00:16:55 ◼   ► more like here's how great we are here's

00:16:57 ◼   ► someone else to come out and tell you

00:16:59 ◼   ► how great we've been and how great were

00:17:01 ◼   ► going to keep being and it was it was

00:17:03 ◼   ► just it was a weird balance I just felt

00:17:06 ◼   ► almost taken it almost like my attention

00:17:08 ◼   ► was taken advantage of to get to the

00:17:12 ◼   ► product announcements know and like I

00:17:13 ◼   ► wasn't expecting like an iPhone or

00:17:15 ◼   ► anything like you know I knew that it

00:17:17 ◼   ► was a focused education event that's one

00:17:19 ◼   ► thing but if you look at like you know

00:17:21 ◼   ► what people would reasonably expect out

00:17:24 ◼   ► of a you know publicized press event

00:17:27 ◼   ► regarding Apple and education I would

00:17:30 ◼   ► have expected a lot more than what we

00:17:32 ◼   ► actually got some people were tweeting a

00:17:34 ◼   ► few and it was like at the 20 or 30

00:17:35 ◼   ► minute mark there

00:17:37 ◼   ► you know we're 20 minutes in and they

00:17:38 ◼   ► still haven't said anything about any

00:17:39 ◼   ► products yet you know there was like a

00:17:41 ◼   ► long lead-in and there was a long lead

00:17:43 ◼   ► out as well I so I I don't remember the

00:17:47 ◼   ► last education event but another thing

00:17:48 ◼   ► people were tweeting about was exactly

00:17:50 ◼   ► how long ago the last education event

00:17:52 ◼   ► was apparently they don't even have

00:17:54 ◼   ► these things every two or three years is

00:17:55 ◼   ► that there are long gaps we've to meet

00:17:57 ◼   ► between the events having a dedicated

00:17:59 ◼   ► education event Apple does stuff

00:18:01 ◼   ► education related all the time but

00:18:02 ◼   ► having a dedicated event for it doesn't

00:18:04 ◼   ► have a lot of time I think the last time

00:18:06 ◼   ► we talked about it these stats were

00:18:09 ◼   ► similar but I to frame this to like why

00:18:12 ◼   ► why is Apple having an education event

00:18:14 ◼   ► why are they spending an hour on stage

00:18:16 ◼   ► telling you about all the things that

00:18:18 ◼   ► Apple does related to education and

00:18:20 ◼   ► trying to make them seem to mark this

00:18:21 ◼   ► point as you know as as good as possible

00:18:24 ◼   ► seem desirable seem like that Apple is

00:18:27 ◼   ► doing great things in education this is

00:18:29 ◼   ► a quote from Bloomberg Bloomberg article

00:18:31 ◼   ► link in the show notes

00:18:32 ◼   ► Chromebooks accounted for 60% of laptops

00:18:34 ◼   ► tablet and other mobile computers

00:18:36 ◼   ► shipping to us K through 12 schools in

00:18:38 ◼   ► the third quarter of 2017 Apple's iPads

00:18:41 ◼   ► accounted for 12% of those school

00:18:42 ◼   ► devices which is less than half its

00:18:44 ◼   ► market share from 2014

00:18:45 ◼   ► so from 2014 to 2017 their market share

00:18:48 ◼   ► has been cut in half

00:18:49 ◼   ► more than cut in half so not only is

00:18:52 ◼   ► that Bowl not you know leading in market

00:18:57 ◼   ► share in this an education category they

00:18:59 ◼   ► were addressing here which is basically

00:19:00 ◼   ► a United States K through 12 schools not

00:19:03 ◼   ► only is you know Chromebooks eating your

00:19:06 ◼   ► lunch there but it's not as if that's

00:19:08 ◼   ► just the status quo it's like yeah well

00:19:10 ◼   ► you know the you know apples never had

00:19:12 ◼   ► big market share but they you know that

00:19:14 ◼   ► the important part in the in three years

00:19:16 ◼   ► their small market share has been cut in

00:19:19 ◼   ► half so if I were Apple and I cared

00:19:22 ◼   ► anything about education I would have to

00:19:24 ◼   ► be taking a hard look at this thing

00:19:26 ◼   ► should we get out of the education

00:19:28 ◼   ► market or should we do something

00:19:30 ◼   ► because unlike lots of other markets

00:19:32 ◼   ► where we have small market share but

00:19:34 ◼   ► it's steady and we you know reap most of

00:19:37 ◼   ► the profits right like the phone market

00:19:39 ◼   ► for example Apple does not dominate the

00:19:41 ◼   ► phone market market chair wise but I've

00:19:43 ◼   ► you know Apple is probably not crying

00:19:45 ◼   ► over that because they make so much

00:19:47 ◼   ► money on it and they are seen to have

00:19:49 ◼   ► you know

00:19:50 ◼   ► if not the best phone then one of the

00:19:52 ◼   ► best phones right and I don't think you

00:19:55 ◼   ► see a lot of article anymore saying

00:19:56 ◼   ► Apple needs to up its phone market chair

00:19:59 ◼   ► or they're gonna be doomed or you know

00:20:01 ◼   ► Android easy apples lunch in the phone

00:20:03 ◼   ► market just because the money talks

00:20:04 ◼   ► right look where all the money goes he

00:20:05 ◼   ► goes to Apple and also if Apple's phone

00:20:09 ◼   ► market share had been cut in half in the

00:20:11 ◼   ► last three years I think there'd be a

00:20:12 ◼   ► lot of more articles about that so I

00:20:15 ◼   ► feel like the the context for this event

00:20:18 ◼   ► is Apple trying to figure out how to

00:20:21 ◼   ► even just stay in the game and education

00:20:23 ◼   ► forget about here's how great we are but

00:20:25 ◼   ► just can you know is this a market where

00:20:28 ◼   ► we can or we can make a difference where

00:20:30 ◼   ► we can be a player where we can be

00:20:31 ◼   ► important and that got me thinking about

00:20:35 ◼   ► how the education market is different

00:20:38 ◼   ► from the phone market or the personal

00:20:39 ◼   ► computer market or the TV connected puck

00:20:41 ◼   ► market or the home cylinder that you

00:20:43 ◼   ► yell at market or whatever you know they

00:20:45 ◼   ► the the fancy computer watch market lots

00:20:48 ◼   ► of like plots in the modern era Apple

00:20:51 ◼   ► has been all about making tons of money

00:20:54 ◼   ► selling relatively high margin expensive

00:20:56 ◼   ► products to a minority of a market the

00:20:59 ◼   ► phone market is the best extensive that

00:21:01 ◼   ► of the example that does that make so

00:21:02 ◼   ► much money and their market share is so

00:21:05 ◼   ► small compared to the aggregate of all

00:21:08 ◼   ► their competitors which is always just

00:21:10 ◼   ► lump together it's like Apple and non

00:21:11 ◼   ► Apple basically Android and iOS but they

00:21:14 ◼   ► may just make so much money it's like

00:21:15 ◼   ► well this is a winning strategy we don't

00:21:17 ◼   ► really care we're not gonna worry that

00:21:20 ◼   ► oh we need to you know we need to make a

00:21:22 ◼   ► netbook remember the netbooks well cheap

00:21:24 ◼   ► laptops to compete with the PC space we

00:21:26 ◼   ► need to make a super cheap iPhone to

00:21:28 ◼   ► compete with Android

00:21:29 ◼   ► that's not how Apple plays the game they

00:21:33 ◼   ► want to sell to the best part of the

00:21:35 ◼   ► market best meaning the part that is the

00:21:37 ◼   ► most lucrative the part that allows

00:21:39 ◼   ► Apple to make the fanciest products

00:21:41 ◼   ► because that people will pay the highest

00:21:42 ◼   ► price the Nyhus margins and all that

00:21:44 ◼   ► Apple Apple's products look nice and

00:21:46 ◼   ► everything like that and I was thinking

00:21:48 ◼   ► about whether that strategy is viable in

00:21:53 ◼   ► education because as far as I can tell

00:21:56 ◼   ► Apple continues to essentially pursue

00:21:59 ◼   ► that in these past decade or so in

00:22:01 ◼   ► education

00:22:01 ◼   ► saying we're not going to have the

00:22:03 ◼   ► majority of the education market but

00:22:06 ◼   ► we'll have the quote-unquote best part

00:22:09 ◼   ► of the education market the richest

00:22:11 ◼   ► schools will buy apple stuff like I'm

00:22:13 ◼   ► trying to try to figure out what what

00:22:14 ◼   ► they're thinking that if you can afford

00:22:17 ◼   ► us we give you the best school

00:22:19 ◼   ► experience or it will seem the fanciest

00:22:22 ◼   ► if you buy Apple stuff and for some

00:22:25 ◼   ► reason when it comes to education that

00:22:28 ◼   ► rubs me the wrong way more so than smart

00:22:31 ◼   ► phones just because education I think of

00:22:33 ◼   ► more as a thing that has to be for

00:22:35 ◼   ► everybody

00:22:36 ◼   ► whereas smart phones there are options

00:22:40 ◼   ► and it's if you don't have an iPhone you

00:22:43 ◼   ► are not disadvantaged in life versus if

00:22:45 ◼   ► you have an Android phone right but if

00:22:46 ◼   ► you don't have an education or don't

00:22:48 ◼   ► have a good education or our education

00:22:50 ◼   ► is not as rich as someone else's that

00:22:52 ◼   ► feels you know inequitable to me and so

00:22:56 ◼   ► I'm watching this presentation and I'm

00:22:58 ◼   ► trying to figure out is Apple changing

00:23:01 ◼   ► course here are they saying we're we're

00:23:03 ◼   ► going to figure out how to let more

00:23:09 ◼   ► students get access to our products or

00:23:12 ◼   ► we still concentrating on providing the

00:23:16 ◼   ► best products for the few students who

00:23:19 ◼   ► are lucky enough to go to a stool school

00:23:20 ◼   ► that can afford them and the

00:23:23 ◼   ► presentation as I read it as someone who

00:23:26 ◼   ► is not you know I'm not involved in the

00:23:28 ◼   ► education system but I do have kids in

00:23:29 ◼   ► school seemed to me that they were not

00:23:32 ◼   ► changing their strategy that everything

00:23:34 ◼   ► they presented was beautifully polished

00:23:36 ◼   ► sort of very sort of high-end nice to

00:23:40 ◼   ► look at applications hardware and

00:23:43 ◼   ► software that a few schools are lucky

00:23:46 ◼   ► enough to have but that the pricing was

00:23:50 ◼   ► the same as it's ever been and that

00:23:54 ◼   ► nothing they announced is going to help

00:23:56 ◼   ► them compete with the things that are

00:23:59 ◼   ► currently eating their lunch in the

00:23:59 ◼   ► market not just on price but from what I

00:24:02 ◼   ► understand from people in education a

00:24:04 ◼   ► lot of the features they for the stuff

00:24:07 ◼   ► that Google's offers are better than the

00:24:09 ◼   ► features that Apple offers that's why

00:24:10 ◼   ► part of the announcements are yeah we

00:24:12 ◼   ► have

00:24:12 ◼   ► the new iPad but we also have a bunch of

00:24:16 ◼   ► new software that's playing catch-up to

00:24:18 ◼   ► our competitor to say oh here's the

00:24:19 ◼   ► easier way to manage a bunch of iPads

00:24:21 ◼   ► using an easier way for a teacher to

00:24:22 ◼   ► manage a bunch of students doing things

00:24:23 ◼   ► but even that even the catch-up software

00:24:26 ◼   ► I saw a lot of complaints saying okay

00:24:28 ◼   ► but you still haven't caught up entirely

00:24:29 ◼   ► to the functionality offered by Google

00:24:31 ◼   ► in terms of integrating into other

00:24:33 ◼   ► school system things and providing a

00:24:35 ◼   ► broader set of functionality which may

00:24:36 ◼   ► not be pretty and fancy and have like

00:24:39 ◼   ► the Apple pencil support and you know

00:24:41 ◼   ► high-end video production capabilities

00:24:44 ◼   ► so kids can make cool videos about

00:24:45 ◼   ► gravity and stuff but practically

00:24:47 ◼   ► speaking when it comes to you know

00:24:49 ◼   ► reading writing and arithmetic and the

00:24:51 ◼   ► basics of functioning in a school and

00:24:53 ◼   ► having a lot of students and a lot of

00:24:55 ◼   ► devices and managing it all but still

00:24:58 ◼   ► apples offerings aren't even the best

00:25:00 ◼   ► and they're certainly not the cheapest

00:25:02 ◼   ► so I'm kind of confused / concerned

00:25:06 ◼   ► about apples approach to education

00:25:08 ◼   ► because it seems to me that if they

00:25:11 ◼   ► really want to make a difference in this

00:25:12 ◼   ► market they need to pursue a different

00:25:15 ◼   ► strategy because I don't I don't think

00:25:16 ◼   ► it's appropriate to pursue a strategy

00:25:19 ◼   ► like they do in the consumer market in

00:25:21 ◼   ► education but you know maybe I'm wrong

00:25:23 ◼   ► about that I would love to hear from

00:25:24 ◼   ► people in education who have worked with

00:25:27 ◼   ► Apple and Google stuff about what what

00:25:28 ◼   ► how they perceive these competitors that

00:25:32 ◼   ► did people watch the education event in

00:25:34 ◼   ► you know people who are actually

00:25:36 ◼   ► teachers or school administrators and

00:25:38 ◼   ► think that Apple had done something

00:25:40 ◼   ► that's going to change the game or did

00:25:42 ◼   ► it just seem like more of the same I

00:25:44 ◼   ► thought Joseph Lenski had a few good

00:25:47 ◼   ► tweets about this and I'll probably

00:25:49 ◼   ► forget to put them in the show notes but

00:25:50 ◼   ► Joe used to be a I think he was an

00:25:54 ◼   ► English teacher from not mistaken

00:25:56 ◼   ► apologies if I have that wrong but now

00:25:58 ◼   ► he's an app developer and designer and

00:26:00 ◼   ► slash rock star but in any case you know

00:26:03 ◼   ► his take about it was you know look

00:26:06 ◼   ► Apple doesn't really play the you know

00:26:09 ◼   ► cheap game just like you're saying John

00:26:11 ◼   ► you know it's not apples card that they

00:26:13 ◼   ► play so are we really surprised that

00:26:15 ◼   ► this is the way this event turned out

00:26:17 ◼   ► and you know he and I went back and

00:26:19 ◼   ► forth a little bit and early in a happy

00:26:22 ◼   ► way or at least I thought it was happy

00:26:23 ◼   ► maybe he was annoyed at me but yeah we

00:26:25 ◼   ► went back and forth a little bit in the

00:26:26 ◼   ► thing

00:26:26 ◼   ► you know i-i've not worked in education

00:26:28 ◼   ► but Aaron was a teacher high school

00:26:31 ◼   ► teacher for a long time and in fact and

00:26:33 ◼   ► I think I've mentioned this a few times

00:26:34 ◼   ► on the show a few years ago actually

00:26:36 ◼   ► many years ago now there was national

00:26:39 ◼   ► news about like a stampede that happened

00:26:41 ◼   ► because I books were being sold for 50

00:26:43 ◼   ► bucks a pop at the Richmond

00:26:45 ◼   ► International Raceway and they were old

00:26:47 ◼   ► like high school I books that were being

00:26:49 ◼   ► retired and so they were selling them it

00:26:51 ◼   ► seen ly cheaply and people I got

00:26:53 ◼   ► trampled trying to buy these cheap

00:26:54 ◼   ► iBooks well that happened because of the

00:26:56 ◼   ► county in which we live it was our

00:26:58 ◼   ► County that was selling all those and so

00:27:01 ◼   ► Aaron when she was teaching the kids all

00:27:04 ◼   ► got issued Dells when they were when she

00:27:05 ◼   ► was teaching is just a yeah you're

00:27:08 ◼   ► getting a Dell was just a couple years

00:27:11 ◼   ► before that

00:27:11 ◼   ► that they were getting these iBooks etc

00:27:13 ◼   ► so having you know spoke and aaron about

00:27:16 ◼   ► this I mean again I'm still a little bit

00:27:19 ◼   ► removed from the actual decision-making

00:27:21 ◼   ► as was she but it seemed pretty clear to

00:27:24 ◼   ► me that even in a relatively affluent

00:27:29 ◼   ► area like we're in I mean or no like you

00:27:33 ◼   ► know a Greenwich County Connecticut or

00:27:35 ◼   ► anything like that but we're not you

00:27:37 ◼   ► know broke around these parts and even

00:27:40 ◼   ► here it's all about cost it's just a

00:27:43 ◼   ► hundred percent about cost and so yeah I

00:27:44 ◼   ► think you're right John that maybe the

00:27:46 ◼   ► apples play is hey if you happen to live

00:27:48 ◼   ► in a really rich area or if you go to

00:27:50 ◼   ► like a very well-to-do private school or

00:27:52 ◼   ► something like that then yeah we have

00:27:53 ◼   ► all sorts of sweet answers for you we

00:27:54 ◼   ► have a sweet solution for you but I

00:27:57 ◼   ► don't know of any like quote-unquote

00:28:01 ◼   ► regular school system that is going to

00:28:05 ◼   ► look at anything more than initial

00:28:07 ◼   ► purchase price

00:28:08 ◼   ► maybe maybe total cost of ownership

00:28:12 ◼   ► maybe but generally speaking it's gonna

00:28:14 ◼   ► be purchase price and the other thing

00:28:15 ◼   ► I've gleaned from Bradley chambers and

00:28:18 ◼   ► Fraser Spears and a few others is that

00:28:19 ◼   ► apparently the management stuff that

00:28:22 ◼   ► Google has is way better than what Apple

00:28:26 ◼   ► has it's not even in the ballpark now to

00:28:27 ◼   ► be fair you can supplement what Apple

00:28:29 ◼   ► does with like Jam for other other

00:28:30 ◼   ► third-party tools but it's just it seems

00:28:33 ◼   ► to be a lot more work and a lot more

00:28:34 ◼   ► money to use the Apple suite is that

00:28:37 ◼   ► worth it

00:28:38 ◼   ► maybe they

00:28:39 ◼   ► we painted from what I've gleaned from

00:28:40 ◼   ► not having watch the event he certainly

00:28:43 ◼   ► painted a pretty compelling pictures to

00:28:44 ◼   ► all the things you can do with iPads in

00:28:46 ◼   ► the classroom and so on and so forth but

00:28:48 ◼   ► I just don't see how that's a realistic

00:28:51 ◼   ► play for almost any general school

00:28:55 ◼   ► system in the world and if you're gonna

00:28:56 ◼   ► spend 330 dollars on mayo per kid on an

00:29:00 ◼   ► iPad I don't know I got to imagine in

00:29:03 ◼   ► aggregate that that adds up to a not and

00:29:05 ◼   ► not insignificant amount of money and

00:29:07 ◼   ► the first place I would put that is

00:29:09 ◼   ► teacher salaries because at least in

00:29:10 ◼   ► America salaries are just hilariously

00:29:13 ◼   ► just devastatingly small and it's absurd

00:29:16 ◼   ► how little teachers get paid here like

00:29:18 ◼   ► that's the other point that is less and

00:29:21 ◼   ► less mentioned I feel like in the modern

00:29:23 ◼   ► Apple era which is general skepticism

00:29:26 ◼   ► about whether the addition of technology

00:29:29 ◼   ► actually improves education to your

00:29:31 ◼   ► point Casey about maybe you've actually

00:29:33 ◼   ► paid teachers more that would improve

00:29:34 ◼   ► education more than buying all because a

00:29:36 ◼   ► laptop like there is there is a

00:29:37 ◼   ► technology angle that Apple can speak to

00:29:39 ◼   ► which is they have a very important

00:29:41 ◼   ► profitable platform that if things keep

00:29:43 ◼   ► going well will be a viable place for

00:29:46 ◼   ► children to make their living and so

00:29:50 ◼   ► teaching coding skills and just more

00:29:52 ◼   ► broadly teaching coding skills which is

00:29:53 ◼   ► the thing that Apple's familiar with

00:29:54 ◼   ► because they have a developer you know

00:29:56 ◼   ► they have developers they have developer

00:29:57 ◼   ► relations they have developer tools they

00:29:59 ◼   ► are well equipped to make an education

00:30:02 ◼   ► focused version of teaching people how

00:30:03 ◼   ► computer skills which i think is a

00:30:05 ◼   ► viable thing to learn in school right

00:30:07 ◼   ► and Apple has expertise there so welcome

00:30:09 ◼   ► Apple to the education they're teaching

00:30:11 ◼   ► you're teaching about something you know

00:30:11 ◼   ► but beyond that I feel like when I was a

00:30:14 ◼   ► kid there was much more skepticism about

00:30:16 ◼   ► whether having kids make a multimedia

00:30:19 ◼   ► presentation about gravity like in that

00:30:20 ◼   ► Cooper video for kids you know doing

00:30:23 ◼   ► this project and making slow-mo videos

00:30:25 ◼   ► and all their iOS devices and cutting it

00:30:27 ◼   ► together and making animations and doing

00:30:28 ◼   ► all that looks fun seems expensive and

00:30:32 ◼   ► especially like these you know

00:30:33 ◼   ► incredibly high production values that

00:30:35 ◼   ► these for the things they do in these

00:30:37 ◼   ► little promotional videos but does that

00:30:39 ◼   ► actually improve education like there's

00:30:42 ◼   ► enrichment and there is getting kids

00:30:44 ◼   ► engaged with technology and there's

00:30:46 ◼   ► having the advantage to do something a

00:30:47 ◼   ► little bit different every once in a

00:30:48 ◼   ► while but I think the vision presented

00:30:52 ◼   ► by

00:30:52 ◼   ► all of that like all kids are doing

00:30:54 ◼   ► creative multimedia digital things all

00:30:56 ◼   ► the time

00:30:57 ◼   ► is not representative of like the

00:31:00 ◼   ► broader effort to educate like and those

00:31:03 ◼   ► are the the most fun parts and you can

00:31:05 ◼   ► make learning fun with the addition of

00:31:07 ◼   ► Technology but you can make learning fun

00:31:09 ◼   ► with the addition of you know just

00:31:12 ◼   ► sitting in a circle and and talking to

00:31:14 ◼   ► each other and you know or just going on

00:31:16 ◼   ► a field trip like there is it just seems

00:31:19 ◼   ► to me that that Apple seems uninterested

00:31:22 ◼   ► in what will actually make education

00:31:26 ◼   ► better and more interested in how can we

00:31:33 ◼   ► make education better with our products

00:31:35 ◼   ► and I'm not entirely sure their products

00:31:39 ◼   ► make education better in a way that is

00:31:43 ◼   ► worth the money spent on not all these

00:31:45 ◼   ► people's like Oh school shouldn't have

00:31:47 ◼   ► computers or anything like that it just

00:31:48 ◼   ► it just seems to me that like that

00:31:51 ◼   ► learning is not linked to the technology

00:31:54 ◼   ► involved right that you can learn all

00:31:58 ◼   ► the same things in exciting engaging

00:32:00 ◼   ► ways without having computers involved

00:32:05 ◼   ► at all that's of course you're learning

00:32:06 ◼   ► about computers which again that's the

00:32:08 ◼   ► angle that Apple has expertise on and

00:32:09 ◼   ► they're they're wise to to lean on it

00:32:11 ◼   ► like learning to code and then there's

00:32:13 ◼   ► tough play grants a lot of stuff but if

00:32:14 ◼   ► you're not learning about computers

00:32:15 ◼   ► computers may help you typewriters may

00:32:18 ◼   ► help you

00:32:19 ◼   ► Slate's may help you pencils and lined

00:32:21 ◼   ► paper might help you but in the end the

00:32:23 ◼   ► learning part it seems much more that

00:32:25 ◼   ► there are so many other much bigger

00:32:27 ◼   ► factors starting with just like

00:32:29 ◼   ► temperature control and safety all the

00:32:32 ◼   ► way up to class size and teachers that

00:32:34 ◼   ► are not you know stressed out and are

00:32:37 ◼   ► not underpaid and overworked and you

00:32:39 ◼   ► know just you know curriculum that suits

00:32:43 ◼   ► the students different learning

00:32:44 ◼   ► strategies special help for the kids who

00:32:47 ◼   ► need it like there's so many more things

00:32:48 ◼   ► that are more important to me than

00:32:50 ◼   ► whether my kids have the latest iPad or

00:32:53 ◼   ► Android devices or whatever you know so

00:32:55 ◼   ► I'm and and I'm not saying that Apple

00:32:58 ◼   ► it's apples job to solve education it's

00:33:00 ◼   ► problem is just that I didn't even see a

00:33:02 ◼   ► faint in that direction or a nod or an

00:33:05 ◼   ► understand

00:33:05 ◼   ► to the fact that the most important

00:33:08 ◼   ► thing in the classroom has nothing to do

00:33:10 ◼   ► with technology that's there because

00:33:11 ◼   ► they're there to sell you the technology

00:33:13 ◼   ► and that that's what I found that and

00:33:14 ◼   ► and my work concerned about the the fact

00:33:17 ◼   ► that this trade isn't students to be

00:33:18 ◼   ► changing made me think that Apple is on

00:33:21 ◼   ► the wrong track with its education

00:33:23 ◼   ► strategy and that that if they continue

00:33:25 ◼   ► to pursue it they're not going to turn

00:33:27 ◼   ► around the their market share slide and

00:33:30 ◼   ► and also like again having two kids in

00:33:33 ◼   ► school it didn't make me think boy I

00:33:36 ◼   ► wish my kids had access to two iPads and

00:33:38 ◼   ► Apple laptops it just didn't you know

00:33:40 ◼   ► like that I don't I don't have any

00:33:43 ◼   ► desire for that at all for my kids I

00:33:45 ◼   ► want my kids to you know learn and enjoy

00:33:48 ◼   ► school and learn that the the you know

00:33:50 ◼   ► the the things that are supposed to

00:33:52 ◼   ► learn the social skills like to have a

00:33:54 ◼   ► good school experience I have no desires

00:33:57 ◼   ► whatsoever about the technology that

00:33:58 ◼   ► using I don't care if they use any

00:33:59 ◼   ► technology unless they're interested in

00:34:01 ◼   ► technology unless you're taking a course

00:34:02 ◼   ► in technology and even then I don't care

00:34:04 ◼   ► if they teach the kids Pascal teach them

00:34:05 ◼   ► C++ teach them scheme like I don't I

00:34:08 ◼   ► don't care if they're learning Swift or

00:34:10 ◼   ► iOS program or anything like that so I

00:34:13 ◼   ► don't know I'm maybe I'm overly grumpy

00:34:15 ◼   ► about this I mean I I think you bring up

00:34:18 ◼   ► a lot of really good points because you

00:34:19 ◼   ► know I think maybe one of the reasons

00:34:22 ◼   ► this event kind of rubbed me the wrong

00:34:24 ◼   ► way is is similar to what you were just

00:34:25 ◼   ► saying about how it seems like Apple

00:34:28 ◼   ► more just wants to like yell at us about

00:34:32 ◼   ► why they're why they don't have to

00:34:34 ◼   ► change much of anything why their

00:34:35 ◼   ► existing stuff can just be shoved right

00:34:37 ◼   ► in there and be a perfect fit and and I

00:34:40 ◼   ► think there over time the the compelling

00:34:43 ◼   ► Nisour the or the fit of what they're

00:34:46 ◼   ► trying to put into this into this

00:34:48 ◼   ► category versus what these customers

00:34:50 ◼   ► actually need and want is diverging it's

00:34:53 ◼   ► it's not getting closer over time it's

00:34:55 ◼   ► getting worse over time like the way I

00:34:57 ◼   ► see it from both you know reading and

00:34:59 ◼   ► listening to school workers who are like

00:35:03 ◼   ► also writers in tech or podcasters I'm

00:35:06 ◼   ► also from friends and family I know who

00:35:08 ◼   ► who work in education some of them

00:35:10 ◼   ► teachers from the administrators it

00:35:12 ◼   ► seems like what schools ultimately want

00:35:14 ◼   ► is inexpensive durable laptops and

00:35:19 ◼   ► enterprise siyul management tools and

00:35:21 ◼   ► services to back them to make it easier

00:35:23 ◼   ► to manage Apple seems to me like they're

00:35:26 ◼   ► losing this on three pretty major fronts

00:35:29 ◼   ► price is obviously a big one like you

00:35:32 ◼   ► know they they are losing on price not

00:35:34 ◼   ► by as much as some people think if you

00:35:35 ◼   ► like look at you know you know I've had

00:35:37 ◼   ► as being the solution if you look at

00:35:39 ◼   ► laptops as being the solution that they

00:35:41 ◼   ► lose big they also seem to be losing

00:35:43 ◼   ► with you know just kind of this is kind

00:35:45 ◼   ► of the wrong product I think like and we

00:35:47 ◼   ► had this argument a lot in in you know

00:35:49 ◼   ► our regular you know tech beat of is the

00:35:51 ◼   ► iPad a good enough computer for various

00:35:53 ◼   ► people for various things and ultimately

00:35:56 ◼   ► I think while you could make the some

00:35:58 ◼   ► really nice marketing videos about how

00:36:00 ◼   ► cool would be if kids used iPads and to

00:36:02 ◼   ► you know rediscover things like you know

00:36:05 ◼   ► music and robots and stuff that's not

00:36:07 ◼   ► what most kids need most of the time in

00:36:09 ◼   ► most classes what they mostly need is

00:36:11 ◼   ► laptops and you can and so what what

00:36:15 ◼   ► Apple is trying to sell the schools on

00:36:16 ◼   ► is no look yes our laptops are way too

00:36:18 ◼   ► expensive for what you're looking for

00:36:21 ◼   ► so instead although they still saw a lot

00:36:22 ◼   ► of anyway but instead you should be

00:36:25 ◼   ► looking at the iPad that's why we don't

00:36:26 ◼   ► meet to make a lamp at any cheaper

00:36:27 ◼   ► because the future is the iPad and you

00:36:29 ◼   ► can just bolt on all of these clunky

00:36:32 ◼   ► expensive accessories that raise the

00:36:34 ◼   ► price even further because you're not

00:36:36 ◼   ► gonna use that iPad at 3:29 or $2.99

00:36:39 ◼   ► you're gonna have to add a case of some

00:36:42 ◼   ► kind to protect it because it's way too

00:36:44 ◼   ► fragile just give to kids naked you can

00:36:45 ◼   ► even have two adults naked so you gotta

00:36:48 ◼   ► get some kind of case it's probably

00:36:50 ◼   ► gonna want some kind of keyboard for a

00:36:51 ◼   ► lot of things that needs or for

00:36:53 ◼   ► standardized test requirements or things

00:36:54 ◼   ► like that so that's why they had this

00:36:55 ◼   ► Logitech case it has this you know

00:36:57 ◼   ► special keyboard and everything and so

00:36:59 ◼   ► you're adding you have to add on all

00:37:00 ◼   ► these accessories now they want you to

00:37:02 ◼   ► buy a pencil or the logitech kram which

00:37:03 ◼   ► is interesting they say you know they

00:37:05 ◼   ► want you to add on even more stuff to it