Hello Internet

01:00:00 ◼   ► jokes and the fact that they joke about

01:00:01 ◼   ► a thing means that it's not serious and

01:00:03 ◼   ► so that they're contributing in this way

01:00:04 ◼   ► like I think that's a path down towards

01:00:07 ◼   ► crazy town and the only result then is

01:00:09 ◼   ► like Oh everybody has to just say things

01:00:11 ◼   ► that are perfectly acceptable online

01:00:14 ◼   ► like the other thing is I also just feel

01:00:17 ◼   ► bad for this guy because his whole life

01:00:22 ◼   ► has been on hold while this trial has

01:00:25 ◼   ► been waiting to happen

01:00:26 ◼   ► and it's been like a year and a half or

01:00:29 ◼   ► something before it has actually gone to

01:00:30 ◼   ► trial and this is a thing where I have

01:00:32 ◼   ► these bad feelings about the Internet

01:00:34 ◼   ► where it's like these little storms

01:00:37 ◼   ► happen and it's like a person becomes an

01:00:39 ◼   ► unperson even before anything official

01:00:43 ◼   ► has occurred so even though this guy

01:00:45 ◼   ► hasn't gone to trial it's like Oh his

01:00:48 ◼   ► whole life has been destroyed for the

01:00:50 ◼   ► past year and a half while this is

01:00:52 ◼   ► occurring because nobody wants to hire

01:00:55 ◼   ► the guy who is waiting for his trial

01:00:58 ◼   ► about inciting hate on the Internet to

01:01:01 ◼   ► go through and it's like Oh even if he

01:01:03 ◼   ► wasn't ever punished like he has still

01:01:06 ◼   ► been totally punished in the meantime

01:01:10 ◼   ► it's like a terrifying thing in society

01:01:13 ◼   ► that that can happen it's like you get

01:01:16 ◼   ► swept up in something and so much of

01:01:19 ◼   ► your life is destroyed and even if in

01:01:21 ◼   ► the end it's like oh we're gonna

01:01:23 ◼   ► overturn that case and we're not gonna

01:01:24 ◼   ► put you in prison and don't mind about

01:01:26 ◼   ► it it's like well the internet never

01:01:29 ◼   ► forgets and now no one will ever want to

01:01:32 ◼   ► associate with you because you are this

01:01:34 ◼   ► person even though like many people

01:01:37 ◼   ► don't think you did anything wrong

01:01:38 ◼   ► like it just it's terrible for UK law

01:01:40 ◼   ► and for people who make anything on the

01:01:43 ◼   ► Internet

01:01:43 ◼   ► in the UK I'm not condoning it but I do

01:01:45 ◼   ► wonder in the back of my mind if it

01:01:47 ◼   ► could be the making of him because he's

01:01:48 ◼   ► a pretty funny guy he could become like

01:01:49 ◼   ► a really funny successful youtuber now

01:01:52 ◼   ► again I'm not saying he wanted the

01:01:54 ◼   ► attention but now that has happened I

01:01:55 ◼   ► hope it becomes the making of him for

01:01:57 ◼   ► his sake even if like everything turns

01:01:59 ◼   ► up roses for him in the future somehow

01:02:01 ◼   ► it doesn't change the fact that it's

01:02:04 ◼   ► like okay well who are we gonna bring up

01:02:05 ◼   ► next on this obscenity law just start

01:02:08 ◼   ► picking youtubers in the UK very early

01:02:12 ◼   ► you said like so many people who are

01:02:13 ◼   ► leaving comments on reddit hmm I don't

01:02:17 ◼   ► know it's like such an incredible

01:02:18 ◼   ► overreaction do you have this fear

01:02:20 ◼   ► because you're worried that it'll affect

01:02:21 ◼   ► you one day because quite often I

01:02:23 ◼   ► thought your fears boil down to that

01:02:25 ◼   ► somehow lucky you skate one day someone

01:02:27 ◼   ► will take something you've done in the

01:02:28 ◼   ► wrong context and you'll end up in hot

01:02:30 ◼   ► water or you really just being quite you

01:02:33 ◼   ► know Noble here and just worried about

01:02:35 ◼   ► the world in general I don't know how to

01:02:37 ◼   ► say this very well in the context of

01:02:39 ◼   ► this conversation because we've just

01:02:40 ◼   ► been talking about Nazis right but the

01:02:44 ◼   ► ability to express thoughts is extremely

01:02:48 ◼   ► important and the power to suppress what

01:02:55 ◼   ► thoughts people are allowed to express

01:02:57 ◼   ► is terrifyingly powerful it worries me

01:03:03 ◼   ► on a society level right like when you

01:03:07 ◼   ► ask Oh am I personally concerned not

01:03:09 ◼   ► really I produce the most g-rated

01:03:11 ◼   ► content in the world and the podcast has

01:03:15 ◼   ► a million hours of context around it and

01:03:17 ◼   ► I don't think aside from our opening up

01:03:20 ◼   ► the wound of the necessary lies of

01:03:21 ◼   ► society like I don't think we say

01:03:23 ◼   ► anything that's terrible on the show so

01:03:25 ◼   ► I'm not personally concerned but I I

01:03:28 ◼   ► really do feel that there's something

01:03:30 ◼   ► like dangerously corrosive here I always

01:03:35 ◼   ► try to stay away from specific political

01:03:37 ◼   ► examples because I don't think that that

01:03:39 ◼   ► is very instructive but I will mention

01:03:42 ◼   ► one that came up like in a conversation

01:03:44 ◼   ► with someone so this is like in an

01:03:46 ◼   ► American context but the conversation

01:03:48 ◼   ► was around the idea of this person

01:03:52 ◼   ► basically wanted to make it illegal to

01:03:55 ◼   ► deny the fact that climate change was

01:03:57 ◼   ► occurring all right they're like you

01:04:00 ◼   ► shouldn't be able to express this idea

01:04:02 ◼   ► online it should be against the law hmm

01:04:04 ◼   ► the reasoning was it's so potentially

01:04:07 ◼   ► harmful spreading misinformation around

01:04:10 ◼   ► this may be the end of the species right

01:04:13 ◼   ► maybe the end of all life on Earth

01:04:15 ◼   ► they're like this idea that there's no

01:04:18 ◼   ► climate change is so terrible we should

01:04:21 ◼   ► put it into law that people are not

01:04:23 ◼   ► allowed to express it

01:04:25 ◼   ► it's like Oh

01:04:27 ◼   ► okay that's absolutely terrifying even

01:04:29 ◼   ► if you agree with that that opens the

01:04:32 ◼   ► door to the idea that like you're

01:04:34 ◼   ► seeding power to a government to tell

01:04:38 ◼   ► you what you're allowed to think hey

01:04:40 ◼   ► news flash your team isn't in charge

01:04:44 ◼   ► right now so how would you feel if a law

01:04:46 ◼   ► was passed that said oh you're not

01:04:49 ◼   ► allowed to express the idea that the

01:04:51 ◼   ► climate is changing then suddenly is

01:04:53 ◼   ► like oh I don't like that idea at all

01:04:55 ◼   ► like yeah of course this is why like you

01:04:57 ◼   ► have to defend the ability to express

01:04:59 ◼   ► ideas and thoughts in the broadest

01:05:03 ◼   ► possible form and so I feel like any

01:05:06 ◼   ► incursion into this territory is just

01:05:10 ◼   ► like a big danger yeah so that's why

01:05:13 ◼   ► like I feel these stories very strongly

01:05:15 ◼   ► and it's like yes I will agree with you

01:05:17 ◼   ► like there are tiny areas that we can

01:05:20 ◼   ► carve out direct incitement to violence

01:05:22 ◼   ► like attacks on a particular person but

01:05:25 ◼   ► even then I feel like we need to define

01:05:27 ◼   ► that very tightly what do we mean by

01:05:30 ◼   ► that it's like there's a cleanliness

01:05:31 ◼   ► monster that is going through the world

01:05:35 ◼   ► making everything have to be clean and

01:05:38 ◼   ► safe we can't even make jokes about the

01:05:41 ◼   ► Nazis because the Nazis are not clean

01:05:44 ◼   ► and safe right so let's just put some

01:05:46 ◼   ► antiseptic over this and just make it go

01:05:48 ◼   ► away all right and I think it's bad like

01:05:50 ◼   ► I think it's really bad for society and

01:05:53 ◼   ► there's something about it that just

01:05:54 ◼   ► seems like it's getting worse and the

01:05:56 ◼   ► producers is a perfect example psycho

01:05:58 ◼   ► fifteen years after World War two we can

01:06:00 ◼   ► make an entire movie that makes fun of

01:06:02 ◼   ► the Nazis but 60 years after World War

01:06:05 ◼   ► two jokes about the Nazis are forbidden

01:06:07 ◼   ► they're so dangerous we can't possibly

01:06:09 ◼   ► even speak them aloud I don't think

01:06:11 ◼   ► that's good for society yeah here's a

01:06:13 ◼   ► topic rady where I feel like I need

01:06:15 ◼   ► pushback where am I wrong here or do you

01:06:17 ◼   ► agree I do fundamentally agree so I

01:06:19 ◼   ► don't want to be the good person who now

01:06:21 ◼   ► gets up here and talks against free

01:06:23 ◼   ► speech the only thing that I don't like

01:06:25 ◼   ► about the way you argue this point it

01:06:27 ◼   ► doesn't mean I disagree with the point

01:06:28 ◼   ► it's just I don't like your stylistic

01:06:30 ◼   ► argument and that is I always feel like

01:06:32 ◼   ► the people who are like the scumbags of

01:06:35 ◼   ► the world who would putting all the scum

01:06:37 ◼   ► out there that I hate and the dirty

01:06:39 ◼   ► stuff I acknowledge there

01:06:41 ◼   ► right to do it right so I'm on your side

01:06:43 ◼   ► but I sometimes feel you kind of clothed

01:06:46 ◼   ► them in righteous garments when you talk

01:06:48 ◼   ► about defending like their right to

01:06:51 ◼   ► express thoughts and ideas like this is

01:06:54 ◼   ► just people taking a dump everywhere and

01:06:56 ◼   ► I feel like you're kind of using this

01:06:58 ◼   ► argument of let's have a free debate and

01:07:01 ◼   ► you make a lot of these people sound

01:07:04 ◼   ► better than they are I don't deny their

01:07:07 ◼   ► right to exist and do these things but I

01:07:10 ◼   ► wish you didn't make them sound so noble

01:07:12 ◼   ► yeah I mean the reason I talk about

01:07:14 ◼   ► thoughts and ideas is because I feel

01:07:16 ◼   ► like I'm trying to keep it

01:07:18 ◼   ► generic yeah but I think by doing that

01:07:20 ◼   ► you're bringing a lot of scumbags into

01:07:22 ◼   ► the fold of nice people yeah but that's

01:07:24 ◼   ► the problem of letting people express

01:07:28 ◼   ► all of their thoughts and ideas here it

01:07:29 ◼   ► is guess what some people have terrible

01:07:31 ◼   ► thoughts and ideas I don't think these

01:07:33 ◼   ► people were taking a dump all over the

01:07:35 ◼   ► place are expressing thoughts or ideas

01:07:36 ◼   ► they dislike taking a dump but they are

01:07:39 ◼   ► thoughts and ideas they are concepts

01:07:42 ◼   ► expressed with language I don't think

01:07:44 ◼   ► that there is a way to draw a circle

01:07:47 ◼   ► where we can say we all agree these

01:07:50 ◼   ► patterns of words are good and these

01:07:52 ◼   ► patterns of words are terrible no no I

01:07:56 ◼   ► think we can do that I just don't think

01:07:58 ◼   ► we can ban them I think it's fair to sit

01:08:00 ◼   ► around and start weighing things and

01:08:02 ◼   ► saying that's a good idea that's an

01:08:04 ◼   ► interesting thought and idea that's a

01:08:06 ◼   ► smart thing you said you there who just

01:08:08 ◼   ► wrote you're gay that's not a good

01:08:10 ◼   ► thought or idea that's not constructive

01:08:12 ◼   ► you're an idiot but you're allowed to do

01:08:14 ◼   ► it like that's a perfect example right

01:08:15 ◼   ► like the canonical youtube comment

01:08:16 ◼   ► you're you are gay yeah perhaps there

01:08:19 ◼   ► has been no YouTube comment more

01:08:21 ◼   ► frequently said than that one right

01:08:23 ◼   ► right and it's like yeah I'll sit here

01:08:25 ◼   ► and agree with you like 100 percent like

01:08:26 ◼   ► it adds nothing it's no good it's not

01:08:29 ◼   ► Plato

01:08:29 ◼   ► but I think it's too easy in a

01:08:32 ◼   ► conversation to pick a particular thing

01:08:35 ◼   ► that we can say like oh we all agree

01:08:37 ◼   ► that this is no good

01:08:38 ◼   ► but if you're trying to craft laws I

01:08:41 ◼   ► think it's really hard to craft a law

01:08:45 ◼   ► that can define what do we mean by this

01:08:49 ◼   ► and that then as an additional layer can

01:08:52 ◼   ► be in

01:08:54 ◼   ► forced in a reasonable way and count

01:08:57 ◼   ► Acula is a good example of this we're

01:08:59 ◼   ► okay if this is the law of the land in

01:09:02 ◼   ► the United Kingdom how is it that like

01:09:04 ◼   ► just this one guy got swept up by this

01:09:09 ◼   ► law and meanwhile like there are actual

01:09:12 ◼   ► Nazis like expressing actual Nazi

01:09:15 ◼   ► thoughts and that's cool like okay well

01:09:19 ◼   ► then you have some kind of bizarre

01:09:22 ◼   ► selective enforcement of this I'd love

01:09:25 ◼   ► to know the story behind this there must

01:09:26 ◼   ► be a bigger story it is amazing isn't it

01:09:29 ◼   ► this guy got done with all the other

01:09:31 ◼   ► stuff that's out there it's weird I

01:09:33 ◼   ► think it's because it was a viral video

01:09:35 ◼   ► right so we're just like it becomes a

01:09:36 ◼   ► bunch of attention and then someone

01:09:38 ◼   ► files a complaint and like now it starts

01:09:40 ◼   ► getting run up the chain I feel like for

01:09:41 ◼   ► my old days as a teacher I understand

01:09:43 ◼   ► very well the concept of like a small

01:09:45 ◼   ► thing the instant someone makes an

01:09:48 ◼   ► official complaint about it it like oh

01:09:49 ◼   ► god like now it's going to be run up the

01:09:51 ◼   ► chain and like no one can stop the

01:09:53 ◼   ► machine that keeps making this a bigger

01:09:54 ◼   ► deal than it actually is right even if

01:09:56 ◼   ► no one involved in the chain wants to

01:09:58 ◼   ► keep escalating it there's an incentive

01:10:00 ◼   ► at every level to keep escalating it so

01:10:02 ◼   ► I feel like this can just be like the

01:10:04 ◼   ► random weather of the Internet yeah but

01:10:06 ◼   ► so that's why I do want to be clear like

01:10:07 ◼   ► I'm not saying like everybody has an

01:10:09 ◼   ► equal contribution to the conversation

01:10:10 ◼   ► because obviously they don't some people

01:10:12 ◼   ► are really smart and they can contribute

01:10:14 ◼   ► more to conversations some people are

01:10:16 ◼   ► really stupid and they don't have very

01:10:17 ◼   ► much to add at all anyway you just as I

01:10:19 ◼   ► said I agree with you you just asked for

01:10:20 ◼   ► some pushback and my pushback is the way

01:10:22 ◼   ► you frame your argument I think cloaks

01:10:25 ◼   ► these people in garments of

01:10:26 ◼   ► righteousness that they're entitled to

01:10:29 ◼   ► the garments but I just feel a bit like

01:10:31 ◼   ► let me just say the reason that I do say

01:10:34 ◼   ► it is thoughts and ideas is it just like

01:10:36 ◼   ► when I made those videos about the

01:10:38 ◼   ► voting systems a long time ago that

01:10:40 ◼   ► there's a reason I don't talk about

01:10:43 ◼   ► specific political parties because as

01:10:46 ◼   ► soon as you talk about specific

01:10:48 ◼   ► political parties the only thing people

01:10:50 ◼   ► want is whatever voting system gets

01:10:53 ◼   ► their guys into office right that's the

01:10:55 ◼   ► one that seems the most fair and you

01:10:58 ◼   ► need to have a system where everyone can

01:11:01 ◼   ► agree that the election is fair before

01:11:04 ◼   ► the election takes place when I'm

01:11:06 ◼   ► talking about thoughts and ideas in the

01:11:08 ◼   ► public realm we need to talk about them

01:11:10 ◼   ► in the most abstract way because if we

01:11:14 ◼   ► start talking about like what do we do

01:11:15 ◼   ► with good ideas and what do we do with

01:11:17 ◼   ► bad ideas like the conversation about

01:11:19 ◼   ► how do you manage conversation is

01:11:22 ◼   ► already poisoned because everybody has

01:11:25 ◼   ► in their own head like the idea of what

01:11:27 ◼   ► a bad idea is and then so we should do

01:11:28 ◼   ► bad things to bad ideas

01:11:30 ◼   ► like the idea of like Oh which side of a

01:11:32 ◼   ► debate do you want to not allow to speak

01:11:34 ◼   ► so that's why I try to talk about it in

01:11:36 ◼   ► general terms because I think that is

01:11:37 ◼   ► the only sensible way to try to think

01:11:41 ◼   ► through the topic and yeah of course

01:11:43 ◼   ► whenever you're discussing freedom of

01:11:45 ◼   ► speech and you are defending it you are

01:11:48 ◼   ► by definition having to defend the most

01:11:52 ◼   ► fringe of fringe people that's just the

01:11:54 ◼   ► nature of this conversation and I think

01:11:57 ◼   ► it's why free speech defenders are often

01:12:00 ◼   ► at a bit of a disadvantage because like

01:12:03 ◼   ► by necessity you you're like the guy who

01:12:06 ◼   ► has to defend the Nazi joke when it

01:12:09 ◼   ► would be much easier to just join in

01:12:11 ◼   ► with a sanctimonious crowd and be like

01:12:13 ◼   ► he should have phrased it differently

01:12:15 ◼   ► like I don't appreciate that joke at all

01:12:17 ◼   ► and I don't think it's good for the

01:12:18 ◼   ► world I do think he should have phrased

01:12:19 ◼   ► it but he's very good how many more

01:12:22 ◼   ► people do you have to see step on the

01:12:24 ◼   ► landmine before you think hmm

01:12:26 ◼   ► maybe I won't walk into that minefield

01:12:28 ◼   ► how many people do you have to see get

01:12:30 ◼   ► blown up to take it in a slightly

01:12:31 ◼   ► adjacent way I'm reading a book which is

01:12:34 ◼   ► about the court case that happened with

01:12:35 ◼   ► Gawker a few years ago with the Hulk

01:12:38 ◼   ► Hogan sex tape and Peter Thiel was

01:12:40 ◼   ► funding this lawsuit against Gawker it's

01:12:43 ◼   ► an interesting book so far but part of

01:12:46 ◼   ► what they're talking about as well is

01:12:47 ◼   ► this effect that like gossip columns

01:12:50 ◼   ► have on people's ability to think in

01:12:54 ◼   ► public and it's like oh people start

01:12:57 ◼   ► worrying when there's a gossip column

01:12:59 ◼   ► that's going after the technology sector

01:13:01 ◼   ► that it it naturally has people close

01:13:04 ◼   ► ranks much further than they otherwise

01:13:07 ◼   ► would like they're much more reluctant

01:13:09 ◼   ► to express any ideas in public because

01:13:12 ◼   ► they're worried about it being twisted

01:13:14 ◼   ► because like that's what the gossip

01:13:16 ◼   ► column does and that's what I mean when

01:13:19 ◼   ► I say like I think there's something

01:13:20 ◼   ► dangerous in this kind of

01:13:22 ◼   ► that is like even if you're a million

01:13:25 ◼   ► miles from making Nazi jokes like you

01:13:30 ◼   ► said it's you feel like ah the boundary

01:13:33 ◼   ► of acceptable conversation has been

01:13:35 ◼   ► moved and so if I want to stay far from

01:13:38 ◼   ► that boundary I need to move even

01:13:41 ◼   ► farther in to only acceptable things you

01:13:44 ◼   ► know so it's like I want to stay a

01:13:45 ◼   ► hundred metres away from that boundary

01:13:47 ◼   ► and we keep pulling that boundary and

01:13:50 ◼   ► further and further it has more of an

01:13:52 ◼   ► effect than just the people at the very

01:13:54 ◼   ► edge and I just don't think that that's

01:13:56 ◼   ► good for public conversation fair enough

01:13:58 ◼   ► sorry about that I didn't mean to rant

01:14:00 ◼   ► for so long you've passed my guy this

01:14:04 ◼   ► whole time I've been ranting Brady to

01:14:06 ◼   ► the dead fish on the H I love me for my

01:14:09 ◼   ► computer screen I never close that image

01:14:12 ◼   ► it's still there hello internets this

01:14:16 ◼   ► audio sounds terrible because I have

01:14:19 ◼   ► just gotten into a hotel room I'm on the

01:14:22 ◼   ► last leg of a multi leg trip and without

01:14:26 ◼   ► my regular audio equipment and you know

01:14:28 ◼   ► when you're traveling it's very easy to

01:14:30 ◼   ► find yourself without the stuff that you

01:14:32 ◼   ► really need including for example your

01:14:36 ◼   ► computer files you grab your laptop and

01:14:39 ◼   ► you go but you know what you forgot that

01:14:41 ◼   ► thing that's sitting back at home on

01:14:43 ◼   ► your desktop what are you gonna do in

01:14:46 ◼   ► that scenario well under most

01:14:48 ◼   ► circumstances you're just screwed

01:14:50 ◼   ► there's nothing that you can do but if

01:14:53 ◼   ► you have taken our advice on hello

01:14:56 ◼   ► internet and installed Backblaze then

01:15:00 ◼   ► everything is fine because Backblaze in

01:15:03 ◼   ► addition to being the backup service

01:15:05 ◼   ► that you should obviously have on your

01:15:08 ◼   ► computer will also allow you anywhere in

01:15:11 ◼   ► the world to access any of your files

01:15:14 ◼   ► and speaking from experience not only

01:15:16 ◼   ► has back lays on multiple times totally

01:15:20 ◼   ► saved my bacon with lost files back lays

01:15:23 ◼   ► has been super helpful for grabbing a

01:15:26 ◼   ► file that I just saved in a random spot

01:15:29 ◼   ► on my hard drive it didn't really think

01:15:31 ◼   ► about and then later needed when I was

01:15:33 ◼   ► away from the computer

01:15:34 ◼   ► once again

01:15:35 ◼   ► I'm going to tell you that's if you're

01:15:38 ◼   ► sitting in front of your computer and

01:15:39 ◼   ► you do not have Backblaze installed on

01:15:42 ◼   ► that computer right now you need to open

01:15:45 ◼   ► up your web browser open it up and go to

01:15:48 ◼   ► Backblaze comm slash hello Internet and

01:15:50 ◼   ► get started there really isn't any

01:15:53 ◼   ► better service for your Mac or PC to

01:15:56 ◼   ► just take care of your backups and allow

01:15:59 ◼   ► you remote access and it's just five

01:16:01 ◼   ► dollars a month five dollars a month for

01:16:05 ◼   ► peace of mind so please go to Backblaze

01:16:08 ◼   ► comm slash hello Internet

01:16:10 ◼   ► do it for your sake so you can sleep

01:16:12 ◼   ► better at night do it for my sake so

01:16:15 ◼   ► I'll sleep better at night knowing that

01:16:17 ◼   ► your files are protected so once again

01:16:20 ◼   ► go to Backblaze comm slash hello

01:16:23 ◼   ► internet that lets Backblaze know that

01:16:25 ◼   ► you came from us and it will get you a

01:16:27 ◼   ► fully featured 15-day free trial for

01:16:31 ◼   ► your computer that's Backblaze comm

01:16:33 ◼   ► slash hello Internet alright enjoy the

01:16:37 ◼   ► rest of the show I I gotta get going so

01:16:42 ◼   ► there was a full-page ad in my copy of

01:16:45 ◼   ► The Times Sunday Times this morning

01:16:49 ◼   ► Mark Zuckerberg kind of apologizing to

01:16:53 ◼   ► the world but in that kind of in a

01:16:56 ◼   ► weaselly way where he's not really

01:16:58 ◼   ► apologizing is also blaming other people

01:17:00 ◼   ► right like the way a spider who's

01:17:02 ◼   ► pretending to be a person would

01:17:03 ◼   ► apologize he's got a terrible signature

01:17:07 ◼   ► by the way Matt psycho does he mmm well

01:17:10 ◼   ► that's because spiders riding inside of

01:17:12 ◼   ► human suits have a really hard time with

01:17:14 ◼   ► that finger dexterity that's an

01:17:16 ◼   ► interesting theory because it is kind of

01:17:18 ◼   ► spider like in fact I took a photo of it

01:17:20 ◼   ► to send you so I'll show you maybe this

01:17:24 ◼   ► is wrong maybe this is me bullying a

01:17:27 ◼   ► public person but I always just get the

01:17:30 ◼   ► feeling that Mark Zuckerberg is like

01:17:32 ◼   ► there's a spider riding around in a

01:17:33 ◼   ► robot that's shaped like Mark Zuckerberg

01:17:35 ◼   ► this is the feeling like whenever he

01:17:37 ◼   ► talks whenever he moves it's like

01:17:39 ◼   ► there's not a person in there there's a

01:17:40 ◼   ► spider in there here's my question all

01:17:42 ◼   ► right Facebook is in a new controversy

01:17:45 ◼   ► to do with data and stuff like that we

01:17:47 ◼   ► can talk about it in a minute if you

01:17:48 ◼   ► want

01:17:49 ◼   ► but my overall question is because this

01:17:50 ◼   ► this is gonna keep happening to Facebook

01:17:52 ◼   ► because they're a company that seems to

01:17:54 ◼   ► cause a lot of controversy is Facebook

01:17:56 ◼   ► too big to fail now is facebook gonna be

01:17:59 ◼   ► with us forever

01:18:00 ◼   ► it's interesting if you'd asked me a

01:18:03 ◼   ► month ago I would have said no that I

01:18:06 ◼   ► think Facebook is too big to fail but

01:18:10 ◼   ► Facebook has done an amazing job of

01:18:14 ◼   ► collecting some of the worst PR in the

01:18:17 ◼   ► world in a short period of time just at

01:18:21 ◼   ► the wrong time zeitgeist why's that

01:18:25 ◼   ► people are super receptive to it like I

01:18:28 ◼   ► think the idea that hey maybe all of the

01:18:32 ◼   ► social media is bad for us was really

01:18:35 ◼   ► coming to fruition earlier in the year

01:18:38 ◼   ► and then it's like right around that

01:18:39 ◼   ► time Facebook had some of the worst PR

01:18:41 ◼   ► in the world and then they have this

01:18:43 ◼   ► most recent scandal it just might be a

01:18:48 ◼   ► perfect storm of things to drive a stake

01:18:52 ◼   ► through the heart of Facebook but that

01:18:55 ◼   ► being said I think even if it were to

01:18:58 ◼   ► happen we are at a technological point

01:19:02 ◼   ► in time where there is always going to

01:19:05 ◼   ► be a natural monopoly for a social

01:19:09 ◼   ► network if you strike Facebook down

01:19:11 ◼   ► something else will just grow up and be

01:19:13 ◼   ► stronger in its place and will be

01:19:15 ◼   ► functionally equivalent to Facebook I

01:19:17 ◼   ► mean there has to be one doesn't there

01:19:18 ◼   ► for a social network to actually work

01:19:20 ◼   ► the way it should they sort of has to be

01:19:22 ◼   ► one doesn't there otherwise we're not

01:19:24 ◼   ► networked yeah 100%

01:19:25 ◼   ► I am really convinced that it's not just

01:19:27 ◼   ► Facebook I think that the big tech

01:19:29 ◼   ► companies exist in no small part because

01:19:32 ◼   ► we're at a technological point where

01:19:34 ◼   ► there are these natural monopolies I

01:19:37 ◼   ► think that search and video are a kind

01:19:40 ◼   ► of natural monopolies that Google has

01:19:42 ◼   ► that there will be a super big video

01:19:45 ◼   ► site I think it's almost inevitable I

01:19:47 ◼   ► almost think that like Amazon is kind of

01:19:49 ◼   ► at a logistics and server running kind

01:19:53 ◼   ► of natural monopolies that makes it

01:19:55 ◼   ► almost impossible for any other company

01:19:56 ◼   ► to compete with them I think we really

01:19:58 ◼   ► are in a weird phase of the world where

01:20:01 ◼   ► that is a truth

01:20:02 ◼   ► so these big companies exist and even if

01:20:04 ◼   ► we were to somehow break them up it

01:20:06 ◼   ► would just take a couple of years before

01:20:08 ◼   ► the thing that replaces them is is just

01:20:11 ◼   ► as big because everything is pointing in

01:20:13 ◼   ► that direction but yeah you're 100%

01:20:14 ◼   ► right

01:20:15 ◼   ► the social network is the most strong

01:20:18 ◼   ► version of that like definitionally

01:20:20 ◼   ► there almost has to be one do you use

01:20:22 ◼   ► Facebook anymore

01:20:23 ◼   ► I haven't used Facebook in any

01:20:25 ◼   ► meaningful way in years in any

01:20:27 ◼   ► meaningful way but do you use it non

01:20:29 ◼   ► meaningful ways yes I do use it in a non

01:20:31 ◼   ► meaningful way which is that I have a

01:20:33 ◼   ► CGP grey like business page right

01:20:36 ◼   ► because if you're a public person

01:20:37 ◼   ► Facebook doesn't let you have a personal

01:20:39 ◼   ► webpage you have to have this business

01:20:41 ◼   ► page I don't even know if it still works

01:20:43 ◼   ► but I did have set up like an if this

01:20:46 ◼   ► than that trigger that would just

01:20:47 ◼   ► automatically post stuff from the

01:20:49 ◼   ► website onto that page yeah and so when

01:20:51 ◼   ► I can when I say like I haven't used it

01:20:52 ◼   ► in a meaningful way that's what I mean

01:20:54 ◼   ► like I haven't logged into Facebook and

01:20:56 ◼   ► like six months at a bare minimum yeah

01:20:58 ◼   ► and even then it would be just to like

01:21:00 ◼   ► check on a thing I pretty much checked

01:21:03 ◼   ► out of Facebook the instant they started

01:21:06 ◼   ► that you need to pay us to send out your

01:21:09 ◼   ► posts to the people who follow you on

01:21:11 ◼   ► Facebook thing hmm

01:21:12 ◼   ► that was for me the day Facebook died I

01:21:15 ◼   ► was like okay well I don't use Facebook

01:21:16 ◼   ► on a personal level anyway and so if the

01:21:19 ◼   ► only thing that I use it for is on a

01:21:20 ◼   ► business level and now you're playing

01:21:23 ◼   ► the Mafia game of like oh it's a nice

01:21:24 ◼   ► business page you have there sure would

01:21:26 ◼   ► be a shame if something happened to it

01:21:28 ◼   ► then it's like okay I'm out I'm out I'm

01:21:30 ◼   ► not really gonna play this game I'm not

01:21:32 ◼   ► gonna participate in this so now I

01:21:34 ◼   ► haven't used it personally in ever to

01:21:37 ◼   ► you yeah I mean I have pages for all my

01:21:41 ◼   ► different projects that I maintain yeah

01:21:43 ◼   ► I go in there every day and have a look

01:21:45 ◼   ► just to check what my friends are up to

01:21:46 ◼   ► and I don't post a lot of stuff myself

01:21:49 ◼   ► on there unless I'm doing like something

01:21:50 ◼   ► amazing like yeah amazing my life is I

01:21:54 ◼   ► don't post a pending three weeks in a

01:21:56 ◼   ► row sitting at a desk editing videos but

01:22:00 ◼   ► and that's the social media effect where

01:22:02 ◼   ► everybody's life seems a million times

01:22:03 ◼   ► more amazing than yours only the most

01:22:06 ◼   ► amazing things they do and of course

01:22:09 ◼   ► he's contributing to making the world a

01:22:11 ◼   ► worse place by doing that brady you have

01:22:13 ◼   ► to post your mundane days as well I

01:22:14 ◼   ► think it's a problematic

01:22:16 ◼   ► company but I almost feel like it's too

01:22:19 ◼   ► big to fail because I look at you know

01:22:20 ◼   ► although I don't reach all my followers

01:22:22 ◼   ► because of the Mafia thing you mentioned

01:22:24 ◼   ► do you have you know followings of all

01:22:25 ◼   ► these Facebook pages and it seems like I

01:22:28 ◼   ► can't just throw that away again I like

01:22:29 ◼   ► ignore us so I mean I can but you

01:22:33 ◼   ► totally can right I mean I'm willing to

01:22:36 ◼   ► bet that if you dig into your analytic

01:22:38 ◼   ► data on YouTube that Facebook is a much

01:22:40 ◼   ► smaller portion of the views than you

01:22:42 ◼   ► might expect that it is yeah I think

01:22:45 ◼   ► you'd be right if that is the case I

01:22:46 ◼   ► would certainly encourage you to not

01:22:48 ◼   ► waste your time on it because if you're

01:22:50 ◼   ► tracking like how much time do you spend

01:22:52 ◼   ► on Facebook and how many views does that

01:22:54 ◼   ► actually translate into I bet that

01:22:56 ◼   ► equation would show very fast that

01:22:57 ◼   ► Facebook is not worth actually spending

01:22:59 ◼   ► any time on I would definitely say I

01:23:01 ◼   ► don't waste time on it I do probably

01:23:03 ◼   ► waste time on you know looking at my

01:23:05 ◼   ► friends puppy but I don't waste time

01:23:08 ◼   ► business on it like if there's a new

01:23:09 ◼   ► numberphile video I'll just go in say

01:23:12 ◼   ► hey everyone there's a new numberphile

01:23:13 ◼   ► video I hope you like it mm-hmm

01:23:14 ◼   ► here's the link and then leave and I

01:23:16 ◼   ► won't hang around reading comments and

01:23:18 ◼   ► you know it's it's perfunctory Facebook

01:23:23 ◼   ► terrible I like this much cuz I could

01:23:26 ◼   ► have expired a thing you've got me

01:23:27 ◼   ► thinking now

01:24:01 ◼   ► we have much to complain about we do

01:24:03 ◼   ► have much to complain about Braden we

01:24:05 ◼   ► may need another 100 episodes gray Oh Oh

01:24:09 ◼   ► Brady you can't do that to the people I

01:24:13 ◼   ► can't do that to the people

01:24:13 ◼   ► can't do that to the people

00:00:00 ◼   ► hi this is Dirk from Veritas okay here

00:00:06 ◼   ► we go here we go hmm this is Dirk from

00:00:09 ◼   ► Vera stab Liam and you're listening to

00:00:10 ◼   ► the hundredth episode of hello Internet

00:00:13 ◼   ► maybe it's time to stop making fun of my

00:00:15 ◼   ► name green vs. yellow tennis balls yep

00:00:20 ◼   ► this has become quite the thing yeah

00:00:23 ◼   ► I've seen a little bit of this on my

00:00:25 ◼   ► Twitter timeline so for people who don't

00:00:28 ◼   ► know I'll do the quick background gray

00:00:30 ◼   ► and his wife had a little marital

00:00:32 ◼   ► discussion about where the tennis balls

00:00:33 ◼   ► were green or yellow which caused gray

00:00:35 ◼   ► to do a little tweaked poll about it do

00:00:38 ◼   ► you think tennis balls are green or

00:00:39 ◼   ► yellow lots of people got into it got

00:00:41 ◼   ► lots of votes it even got a little bit

00:00:43 ◼   ► of like media coverage which was quite

00:00:45 ◼   ► funny yeah and we discussed it on hello

00:00:47 ◼   ► Internet

00:00:48 ◼   ► and it was really interesting what

00:00:49 ◼   ► happened as a result of the hello

00:00:50 ◼   ► internet discussion there was lots of

00:00:52 ◼   ► tim foolery

00:00:53 ◼   ► there are several scientific studies

00:00:54 ◼   ► done I don't know if you've seen the one

00:00:56 ◼   ► that I've popped in the show notes where

00:00:57 ◼   ► someone actually took my advice and

00:01:01 ◼   ► measured the light spectrum from lime

00:01:04 ◼   ► from lemon and from a tennis ball which

00:01:07 ◼   ► it was closer to and so you know they

00:01:08 ◼   ► wrote up a little scientific report and

00:01:10 ◼   ► many a laugh was had and that could have

00:01:13 ◼   ► been the end of it except that one

00:01:16 ◼   ► listener I think he must have found out

00:01:18 ◼   ► that his girlfriend and his girlfriend's

00:01:20 ◼   ► father were going to the tennis so he

00:01:23 ◼   ► decided to tell them I listen to this

00:01:24 ◼   ► podcast they were talking about where

00:01:26 ◼   ► the tennis balls a green or yellow and

00:01:28 ◼   ► the father who is not a Tim who was just

00:01:31 ◼   ► the father of a girl whose boyfriend

00:01:33 ◼   ► listens to Holly winter net right was

00:01:35 ◼   ► quite taken by this and the next day he

00:01:37 ◼   ► found himself in a little gaggle of

00:01:39 ◼   ► people who were waiting to meet and get

00:01:41 ◼   ► autographs from quite possibly the

00:01:43 ◼   ► greatest tennis player ever current

00:01:46 ◼   ► world number one tennis player although

00:01:47 ◼   ► he's about to just go back down to

00:01:49 ◼   ► number two but I think he's the greatest

00:01:51 ◼   ► tennis player ever Roger Federer they

00:01:54 ◼   ► were all waiting for Roger Federer to

00:01:55 ◼   ► walk past between whatever matches he

00:01:58 ◼   ► was playing sign a couple of autographs

00:01:59 ◼   ► and whisk away and while he was signing

00:02:02 ◼   ► these autographs this dad calls out

00:02:03 ◼   ► Roger had tennis balls green or yellow

00:02:07 ◼   ► and amongst all like the confusion Roger

00:02:10 ◼   ► Federer at the question two suddenly

00:02:11 ◼   ► took him and he looked up and he went

00:02:13 ◼   ► I think he said something long was of

00:02:15 ◼   ► the yellow aren't they mm-hmm and then a

00:02:17 ◼   ► few other people in the quadrant yeah

00:02:18 ◼   ► yeah they're yellow and this guy the

00:02:20 ◼   ► dead who was filming this with his

00:02:22 ◼   ► mobile phone said I think they're green

00:02:24 ◼   ► but lots of other people think they're

00:02:25 ◼   ► yellow and then Roger Federer said Nana

00:02:27 ◼   ► they're yellow mm-hmm and then walked

00:02:29 ◼   ► off you know that in itself I think was

00:02:32 ◼   ► a great hello internet moment and I

00:02:35 ◼   ► declared then and there that this Tim's

00:02:38 ◼   ► girlfriend's dead is gonna get a Hello

00:02:40 ◼   ► Internet Medal of Honor is that legal he

00:02:42 ◼   ► doesn't even listen to the show but yeah

00:02:44 ◼   ► I think he's getting around he's getting

00:02:45 ◼   ► one and he's what within enough degrees

00:02:47 ◼   ► of separation from the initiating

00:02:49 ◼   ► incident that he's gonna get a medal

00:02:51 ◼   ► it's never been written anywhere that

00:02:52 ◼   ► you have to be a listener to get a Medal

00:02:54 ◼   ► of Honor imagine it helps I mean to be

00:02:56 ◼   ► fair I don't think we have anything

00:02:57 ◼   ► written anywhere about how anything

00:03:00 ◼   ► works but yes that's true we haven't

00:03:02 ◼   ► written down rules about how the medals

00:03:03 ◼   ► work now a lot of people said that I

00:03:05 ◼   ► shouldn't be just giving them

00:03:06 ◼   ► willy-nilly and I needed your approval

00:03:08 ◼   ► but even if you said no to this I would

00:03:10 ◼   ► say too bad he's getting one this is

00:03:13 ◼   ► what happens people maybe could I

00:03:15 ◼   ► stopped him no often I could not I could

00:03:18 ◼   ► not would you stop me is the question

00:03:20 ◼   ► you wouldn't veto this one surely this

00:03:22 ◼   ► is a great moment having the greatest

00:03:24 ◼   ► tennis player in history weigh in on

00:03:26 ◼   ► this - squabble about the color of

00:03:28 ◼   ► tennis books I certainly could disagree

00:03:30 ◼   ► with you one you send me a video and

00:03:33 ◼   ► from my perspective it's some guy in a

00:03:35 ◼   ► crowd is commenting on the tennis ball

00:03:37 ◼   ► thing right it's like oh okay

00:03:39 ◼   ► great I feel like the medals should be

00:03:42 ◼   ► going to actual listeners of the show so

00:03:44 ◼   ► I do feel like I can disagree with you

00:03:46 ◼   ► but I just you seem so tickled by this

00:03:50 ◼   ► that I know there's nothing I can do to

00:03:53 ◼   ► stop you from simply mailing out one of

00:03:55 ◼   ► these medals to a guy who's going to be

00:03:57 ◼   ► very surprised to just get a box that's

00:03:59 ◼   ► an award it would be the second one

00:04:03 ◼   ► awarded look right I see what you mean

00:04:06 ◼   ► about you have to be a listener right

00:04:08 ◼   ► like you have to be a citizen of a

00:04:09 ◼   ► certain country to win certain honors

00:04:11 ◼   ► but I think medals of Honor generally

00:04:13 ◼   ► are just for the furtherance of the

00:04:15 ◼   ► greatness of hello Internet and this

00:04:17 ◼   ► definitely has furthered the cause in a

00:04:19 ◼   ► very special way to me so I thought it

00:04:21 ◼   ► was fantastic right I thought was

00:04:22 ◼   ► absolutely fantastic I had a right laugh

00:04:24 ◼   ► at it and that could have been it just

00:04:27 ◼   ► so you

00:04:27 ◼   ► understand I know you don't really

00:04:28 ◼   ► appreciate Who Roger Federer is this is

00:04:30 ◼   ► the equivalent of say instead of tennis

00:04:32 ◼   ► balls you and your wife had been

00:04:33 ◼   ► discussing something about mr. chompers

00:04:36 ◼   ► ears you couldn't decide something about

00:04:38 ◼   ► his ears or not mm-hmm and then someone

00:04:41 ◼   ► went and got an official comment from

00:04:43 ◼   ► Charles Darwin about it this is what it

00:04:44 ◼   ► is to me this is a level of greatness in

00:04:47 ◼   ► the field this is the Charles Darwin or

00:04:49 ◼   ► Isaac Newton of tennis hmm he just

00:04:51 ◼   ► happens to be alive this means that I'm

00:04:53 ◼   ► officially right in your eyes is that

00:04:56 ◼   ► how this works well that's another issue

00:04:58 ◼   ► I tell you another thing though about

00:04:59 ◼   ► Roger Federer that you may not

00:05:01 ◼   ► appreciate but you know how there are

00:05:03 ◼   ► certain things on the internet that you

00:05:05 ◼   ► don't mess with because everyone will

00:05:07 ◼   ► jump on you like you know electric

00:05:08 ◼   ► fences because they have really jealous

00:05:11 ◼   ► followers Roger Federer is one of those

00:05:13 ◼   ► things that was about to say can you

00:05:15 ◼   ► give me an example of things that you

00:05:16 ◼   ► don't mess with on the Internet Brady

00:05:18 ◼   ► like what are beehives you are not

00:05:19 ◼   ► supposed to poke the sticks you're

00:05:21 ◼   ► normally the one who tells me so you

00:05:23 ◼   ► don't worry about them than me you're

00:05:25 ◼   ► the one who says no we're not talking

00:05:26 ◼   ► about that I have never said such a

00:05:28 ◼   ► thing braving criticizing Roger Federer

00:05:30 ◼   ► is such a beehive never criticize Roger

00:05:33 ◼   ► Federer because his fans known as the

00:05:35 ◼   ► fed heads Oh God are very zealous

00:05:38 ◼   ► this is like tennis Logan Pollard's is

00:05:41 ◼   ► that what this is like I'll make jokes

00:05:42 ◼   ► about Elon Musk who the cows come home

00:05:44 ◼   ► but I'm not saying anything bad about

00:05:45 ◼   ► Roger Federer or his fans so annoying

00:05:48 ◼   ► that you don't want to like him Brady is

00:05:50 ◼   ► that one of these situations no comment

00:05:53 ◼   ► no comment from Brady at all so anyway

00:05:55 ◼   ► after Roger Federer weighed in on the

00:05:59 ◼   ► debate mm-hmm

00:06:00 ◼   ► this story for lack of a better word

00:06:03 ◼   ► completely blew up and went absolutely

00:06:07 ◼   ► everywhere like The Today Show in

00:06:09 ◼   ► America it was in all the newspapers it

00:06:12 ◼   ► was on all the web sites it was all over

00:06:14 ◼   ► the BBC tennis balls yellow or green for

00:06:17 ◼   ► like a day and a half or two days became

00:06:19 ◼   ► an absolute obsession a media obsession

00:06:23 ◼   ► any mention of gray and his wife where

00:06:26 ◼   ► it all started or hello Internet had

00:06:28 ◼   ► completely vanished from existence lots

00:06:31 ◼   ► of teams were upset about this they're

00:06:32 ◼   ► like oh they're not mentioning gray and

00:06:34 ◼   ► then I'm mentioning hello Internet like

00:06:35 ◼   ► that's just what happens with these

00:06:36 ◼   ► things yeah but it became absolutely

00:06:38 ◼   ► massive you couldn't look anywhere

00:06:41 ◼   ► without it coming up do you care or you

00:06:43 ◼   ► relieved that you kind of got pushed out

00:06:45 ◼   ► of the story or I mean you kept sending

00:06:49 ◼   ► me more and more things from stories

00:06:52 ◼   ► about where it was being posted and the

00:06:56 ◼   ► number one thing no I don't feel like I

00:06:59 ◼   ► need to be credited that I worded a

00:07:02 ◼   ► tweet that was a discussion about my

00:07:04 ◼   ► wife and I and tennis ball like that is

00:07:06 ◼   ► the kind of thing on the internet that

00:07:08 ◼   ► trying to have any kind of ownership of

00:07:10 ◼   ► that is just like an insanity right so I

00:07:13 ◼   ► want to be really clear I would have no

00:07:15 ◼   ► expectations that by the time this thing

00:07:18 ◼   ► gets pattern matched up to Good Morning

00:07:21 ◼   ► America The Good Morning America is like

00:07:23 ◼   ► Greg and his wife we're having a

00:07:24 ◼   ► discussion about tennis balls right like

00:07:26 ◼   ► I would not expect that but I did have

00:07:28 ◼   ► this different feeling where I kind of

00:07:30 ◼   ► did not like you keeping sending me

00:07:32 ◼   ► these articles were you like oh look

00:07:33 ◼   ► it's over here now three or four I think

00:07:37 ◼   ► it was three or four hundred it felt

00:07:39 ◼   ► like I would likely continue but you are

00:07:43 ◼   ► doing me a disservice here it was not

00:07:44 ◼   ► that man it was three or four it wasn't

00:07:47 ◼   ► that many but it was also on Twitter

00:07:48 ◼   ► like people just kept sending me like

00:07:50 ◼   ► hey look the thing is over here okay so

00:07:52 ◼   ► there is awesome away where I feel like

00:07:54 ◼   ► how can I say this thing without

00:07:56 ◼   ► sounding like the world's most jaded

00:07:59 ◼   ► asshole I think there's a thing where

00:08:05 ◼   ► people want you to be like happy that

00:08:07 ◼   ► this thing that you started has spread

00:08:09 ◼   ► far and wide throughout the news media

00:08:11 ◼   ► and my response to this is not a kind of

00:08:14 ◼   ► happiness it's just like enough of these

00:08:17 ◼   ► things have happened over the years I've

00:08:18 ◼   ► seen this happen with other people

00:08:20 ◼   ► enough over the years that this is just

00:08:21 ◼   ► like a pattern and I feel like this is

00:08:24 ◼   ► what the media machine does like they're

00:08:27 ◼   ► looking for things that they know are

00:08:29 ◼   ► going to get them views and attention

00:08:31 ◼   ► and they will just repeat and pattern

00:08:35 ◼   ► amplify that and copy the others what

00:08:37 ◼   ► the others are doing

00:08:38 ◼   ► yeah and copy the others but they copy

00:08:39 ◼   ► the others in this like battle of the

00:08:41 ◼   ► memes for attention of who's watching TV

00:08:44 ◼   ► and any kind of thing like this where

00:08:45 ◼   ► you can divide people in teams like it's

00:08:48 ◼   ► going to spread but my feeling people

00:08:50 ◼   ► are like oh aren't you excited like it

00:08:52 ◼   ► made the New York Times is like not

00:08:54 ◼   ► exciting

00:08:54 ◼   ► this is like literally the job of these

00:08:58 ◼   ► companies is to find things that will

00:09:00 ◼   ► get people's attention and to pattern

00:09:02 ◼   ► amplify them across time so I almost

00:09:05 ◼   ► felt like oh this like thing that was

00:09:06 ◼   ► fun for the podcast like now it is

00:09:08 ◼   ► everywhere in the world like and it's

00:09:10 ◼   ► just been pattern amplified all over the

00:09:12 ◼   ► place it was a strange thing to see this

00:09:15 ◼   ► spread across the internet but that's

00:09:16 ◼   ► what happens like catchy ideas spread it

00:09:19 ◼   ► would be like definitionally impossible

00:09:22 ◼   ► for them not to spread but that's how

00:09:24 ◼   ► these things go they spread across the

00:09:25 ◼   ► internet very fast and very far just to

00:09:28 ◼   ► be clear I wasn't sending you those

00:09:30 ◼   ► things because I wanted you to be like

00:09:31 ◼   ► excited or happy or proud I was winding

00:09:34 ◼   ► you up basically because I don't know

00:09:37 ◼   ► how much you hate the media so the fact

00:09:39 ◼   ► that like you and your wife just you

00:09:41 ◼   ► know chatting about tennis balls for ten

00:09:43 ◼   ► minutes in your house can make it as a

00:09:45 ◼   ► news story in The Times of London yeah

00:09:47 ◼   ► like I expect you to see that oh my god

00:09:50 ◼   ► what where do I live in I'm sending that

00:09:52 ◼   ► to you to like poke the grumpy old man

00:09:54 ◼   ► and get him more upset about news not

00:09:56 ◼   ► like well done you should be proud

00:09:58 ◼   ► you've made it yeah I know that's 100%

00:10:01 ◼   ► what you're doing which is also why

00:10:02 ◼   ► Brady you may have noticed you've got

00:10:03 ◼   ► very few responses from me Brady sends

00:10:07 ◼   ► the articles through and is like I say

00:10:09 ◼   ► nothing back right reply because I know

00:10:13 ◼   ► you're trying to wind me up right and

00:10:15 ◼   ► that's why I CC your wife into the

00:10:17 ◼   ► messages as well because she's polite

00:10:19 ◼   ► and replies and she was also getting a

00:10:22 ◼   ► bit wound up and I happened to be away

00:10:24 ◼   ► while this was going on and you were

00:10:25 ◼   ► messaging my wife and I and I was busy

00:10:28 ◼   ► but I came very very close to sending my

00:10:31 ◼   ► wife a message which would have been

00:10:33 ◼   ► something along the lines of like don't

00:10:35 ◼   ► keep replying to Brady or just

00:10:36 ◼   ► encouraging her because she was all like

00:10:38 ◼   ► this is tweeting right this is

00:10:40 ◼   ► outrageous she got the joke but yeah no

00:10:46 ◼   ► of course of course I know you're trying

00:10:47 ◼   ► to wind me up and it fits exactly in

00:10:50 ◼   ► like the gray checklist of not media

00:10:53 ◼   ► hatred but media sadness disappointment

00:10:57 ◼   ► a little bit of despise 'el I'm not

00:11:01 ◼   ► angry at the media I'm disappointed yeah

00:11:03 ◼   ► I'm disappointed and next time you want

00:11:06 ◼   ► to tell me about the brave Fourth Estate

00:11:08 ◼   ► protect

00:11:08 ◼   ► our democracy from all sorts of ills

00:11:10 ◼   ► I'll remind you that they spent lots of

00:11:12 ◼   ► time on whether or not tennis balls are

00:11:14 ◼   ► green or yellow can I give you that I

00:11:16 ◼   ► know we talked about how I will

00:11:19 ◼   ► sometimes cut things that you say from

00:11:21 ◼   ► the show segments that I find boring

00:11:23 ◼   ► sports ball corners sometimes but I have

00:11:26 ◼   ► to say that last episode I did have a

00:11:28 ◼   ► real crisis of confidence of if I should

00:11:31 ◼   ► even put up that section about necessary

00:11:33 ◼   ► lies of society there is something about

00:11:35 ◼   ► it that just felt like I don't know if I

00:11:37 ◼   ► really want to open this door publicly I

00:11:39 ◼   ► really did think about it like should we

00:11:41 ◼   ► put up this little section we're not

00:11:43 ◼   ► really saying anything that's terrible

00:11:44 ◼   ► in here this is not like a brand new

00:11:46 ◼   ► idea that has never been released into

00:11:48 ◼   ► the world but there was something about

00:11:50 ◼   ► it that I felt a little bit

00:11:51 ◼   ► uncomfortable about but once the show

00:11:54 ◼   ► was up then I immediately asked on

00:11:55 ◼   ► Twitter like hey everybody tell me your

00:11:57 ◼   ► necessary lies to keep civilization

00:11:59 ◼   ► together because I'm like well when it's

00:12:00 ◼   ► out here let's just double down and it's

00:12:03 ◼   ► interesting because I think I got back

00:12:04 ◼   ► many terrible answers and that people

00:12:08 ◼   ► would just say things that like our

00:12:10 ◼   ► phrases that you hear that simply aren't

00:12:12 ◼   ► true so I'm trying to think about how to

00:12:15 ◼   ► define more clearly this idea like a

00:12:17 ◼   ► necessary lie of civilization and I

00:12:20 ◼   ► think you're one just then as the

00:12:22 ◼   ► transition is totally true like cheaters

00:12:24 ◼   ► never win is a kind of civilization

00:12:27 ◼   ► propaganda that we have to try to get

00:12:29 ◼   ► people on board with even though it's

00:12:30 ◼   ► not true anyway so there were a bunch of

00:12:33 ◼   ► answers that I thought were not really

00:12:35 ◼   ► good or just like aphorisms but I think

00:12:38 ◼   ► the best answer that I got was from

00:12:41 ◼   ► greed grow on reddit and the necessary

00:12:44 ◼   ► lie is that violence is not the answer

00:12:47 ◼   ► or violence is not the solution man

00:12:50 ◼   ► that is a really great necessary lie of

00:12:53 ◼   ► civilization

00:12:54 ◼   ► it's almost definitionally there to keep

00:12:57 ◼   ► civilization together that like

00:12:58 ◼   ► civilization is the resolution of

00:13:02 ◼   ► problems without having to resort to

00:13:05 ◼   ► violence and that feels like a real

00:13:07 ◼   ► ground level kind of agreement that

00:13:10 ◼   ► there are plenty of things that you

00:13:12 ◼   ► could probably try to solve with

00:13:14 ◼   ► violence but we all have to agree

00:13:16 ◼   ► together that like we're not going to

00:13:18 ◼   ► resort to this tool and we have to agree

00:13:22 ◼   ► like this

00:13:22 ◼   ► things together like we're not going to

00:13:25 ◼   ► resort to violence as a solution but

00:13:28 ◼   ► it's like there are plenty of situations

00:13:30 ◼   ► where we use violence as the solution we

00:13:32 ◼   ► have Wars right or it's like we pay

00:13:33 ◼   ► police like to essentially force things

00:13:37 ◼   ► to occur so I really like that as an

00:13:38 ◼   ► answer for a necessary lie of

00:13:40 ◼   ► civilization is like we teach kids like

00:13:42 ◼   ► violence is not the answer violence is

00:13:44 ◼   ► not the solution and and often can be we

00:13:47 ◼   ► just we can't resort to it otherwise

00:13:49 ◼   ► we'll be a bunch of chimps tearing each

00:13:52 ◼   ► other apart

00:13:52 ◼   ► so violence isn't a solution then

00:13:54 ◼   ► because ultimately we tear each other

00:13:56 ◼   ► apart violence is not the solution if

00:13:58 ◼   ► everyone uses violence the violence can

00:14:00 ◼   ► be a solution if a select few people use

00:14:02 ◼   ► it yeah that's really getting to the

00:14:03 ◼   ► core of like we were talking last unlike

00:14:06 ◼   ► the psychopathy school of like oh we

00:14:07 ◼   ► pull some people apart and we say like

00:14:09 ◼   ► hey here's some things you might want to

00:14:10 ◼   ► they're actually true or like you're

00:14:11 ◼   ► gonna be very successful or very

00:14:13 ◼   ► terrible people and being willing to

00:14:16 ◼   ► resort to violence is one of those

00:14:17 ◼   ► things it's like if everybody does this

00:14:19 ◼   ► civilization falls apart which is why

00:14:21 ◼   ► it's a necessary lie but like on an

00:14:23 ◼   ► individual basis it can kind of work the

00:14:25 ◼   ► thing it made me think about which it

00:14:26 ◼   ► can it's like how can I don't even want

00:14:28 ◼   ► to say it out loud when I was in middle

00:14:30 ◼   ► school and like on the edge of being a

00:14:32 ◼   ► kid who was about to be bullied a little

00:14:35 ◼   ► bit and you know the adults tell you

00:14:37 ◼   ► it's like oh I'll ignore the situation

00:14:39 ◼   ► you know don't do anything bullies just

00:14:41 ◼   ► feel bad about themselves which is also

00:14:43 ◼   ► like a weird lie

00:14:44 ◼   ► like you hear all of this advice and my

00:14:46 ◼   ► experience as a kid was nothing stopped

00:14:50 ◼   ► the beginning of bullying faster than

00:14:52 ◼   ► adding a little bit of violence into the

00:14:54 ◼   ► solution what did you do grey because my

00:14:57 ◼   ► question I was gonna ask you was have

00:14:58 ◼   ► you ever used violence as a solution and

00:15:00 ◼   ► I thought there's no way he'd answer

00:15:01 ◼   ► that

00:15:02 ◼   ► and you've just offered it up well your

00:15:06 ◼   ► criminal past is not criminal it's

00:15:08 ◼   ► self-defense

00:15:09 ◼   ► what did you do did you punch someone a

00:15:11 ◼   ► bully did you punch your bully look I

00:15:13 ◼   ► don't even really want to get into the

00:15:14 ◼   ► details but it sounds cooler if you

00:15:17 ◼   ► don't tell anyway because a lot we can

00:15:19 ◼   ► imagine something more awesome I don't

00:15:20 ◼   ► know look here's the thing the reason

00:15:22 ◼   ► why I would be like a potential bullying

00:15:26 ◼   ► target is because I wasn't like a big

00:15:27 ◼   ► buff kid or anything like shocked

00:15:29 ◼   ► surprised younger gray was kind of a

00:15:32 ◼   ► nerd right like total surprise I'm sure

00:15:35 ◼   ► - absolutely every

00:15:36 ◼   ► oh you mean he wasn't quarterback at the

00:15:40 ◼   ► school football team yeah that's not the

00:15:42 ◼   ► image of how it was so you just had to

00:15:44 ◼   ► lay down a marker once you lay down a

00:15:47 ◼   ► marker and the trick is you have to be

00:15:50 ◼   ► able to convince the other person that

00:15:52 ◼   ► retaliation will be unreasonably large

00:15:55 ◼   ► again I don't want to say these things

00:15:57 ◼   ► out loud Brady why do I say them into

00:15:58 ◼   ► the microphone but it's just you it may

00:16:00 ◼   ► here when I was a teacher I would just

00:16:02 ◼   ► see it like I had the interesting

00:16:03 ◼   ► experience of teaching at mixed schools

00:16:05 ◼   ► with both boys and girls teaching at

00:16:07 ◼   ► girl only schools and teaching at boy

00:16:10 ◼   ► only schools like it was really

00:16:11 ◼   ► interesting as an adult

00:16:12 ◼   ► to see this like from a different

00:16:13 ◼   ► perspective and it's like oh there's a

00:16:16 ◼   ► couple of lessons that I learned there

00:16:17 ◼   ► like lesson number one is high school is

00:16:21 ◼   ► even more awful like viewing it from the

00:16:23 ◼   ► perspective as an adult than it was as a

00:16:25 ◼   ► kid but it's like oh okay I can see that

00:16:28 ◼   ► none of the boys make it through school

00:16:30 ◼   ► without being subjected to some kind of

00:16:33 ◼   ► physical violence and none of the girls

00:16:35 ◼   ► make it through school without being

00:16:36 ◼   ► subjected to some kind of psychological

00:16:38 ◼   ► violence from each other it's like it's

00:16:40 ◼   ► just so obvious

00:16:41 ◼   ► I like that violence is not the answer

00:16:42 ◼   ► or the solution one I feel like that was

00:16:44 ◼   ► just a like a really really great answer

00:16:47 ◼   ► to this question and I'll be sure to cut

00:16:51 ◼   ► or dramatically cut down this section

00:16:52 ◼   ► don't let me leave it up Brady don't let

00:16:55 ◼   ► me leave it up we're gonna tear the

00:16:56 ◼   ► world apart I don't mean to hello hello

00:16:59 ◼   ► internet listeners is there something

00:17:01 ◼   ► that you want to learn is there a skill

00:17:03 ◼   ► that you want to require something you

00:17:05 ◼   ► wish you could do that you can't do now

00:17:07 ◼   ► then you should check out skills share

00:17:10 ◼   ► skill share is an online learning

00:17:12 ◼   ► community with thousands of classes in

00:17:15 ◼   ► design business technology and more with

00:17:19 ◼   ► skills share Premium Membership you get

00:17:21 ◼   ► unlimited access to high-quality classes

00:17:23 ◼   ► on must know topics so you can improve

00:17:26 ◼   ► your skills unlock new opportunities and

00:17:28 ◼   ► do the work you love right now you're

00:17:31 ◼   ► listening to a podcast and I'm willing

00:17:33 ◼   ► to bet that many of you probably want to

00:17:36 ◼   ► start a podcast of your own but you

00:17:38 ◼   ► don't know where to begin and it can be

00:17:40 ◼   ► pretty overwhelming even after having

00:17:43 ◼   ► done this for years I'm constantly

00:17:44 ◼   ► surprised at how fiddly and fussy doing

00:17:47 ◼   ► a podcast can be well

00:17:49 ◼   ► Skillshare has podcasting classes and

00:17:52 ◼   ► not just one thing on podcasting they

00:17:55 ◼   ► cover all of the various ranges from the

00:17:58 ◼   ► technical side about how to get started

00:18:00 ◼   ► to the editing side how to work with

00:18:03 ◼   ► tools like logic or Adobe to actually

00:18:05 ◼   ► edit the podcast and they have classes

00:18:07 ◼   ► on how to improve your extemporaneous

00:18:10 ◼   ► way of speaking so across the whole

00:18:13 ◼   ► range of everything you could want to

00:18:15 ◼   ► know about how to make a podcast

00:18:17 ◼   ► Skillshare has classes on that so again

00:18:20 ◼   ► an annual scription to skills share is

00:18:22 ◼   ► less than ten dollars a month but right

00:18:25 ◼   ► now if you go to Skillshare comm slash

00:18:28 ◼   ► hello the first 1,000 people to sign up

00:18:31 ◼   ► will receive their first two months for

00:18:33 ◼   ► 99 cents that's Skillshare comm slash

00:18:37 ◼   ► hello and the first 1,000 people will

00:18:40 ◼   ► receive their first two months for 99

00:18:42 ◼   ► cents there are quite a lot of hello

00:18:44 ◼   ► internet listeners so if you are hearing

00:18:46 ◼   ► the sound of my voice right now you

00:18:48 ◼   ► probably want to go and check that out

00:18:51 ◼   ► as soon as you can it gets you a

00:18:53 ◼   ► discount on Skillshare and let's

00:18:55 ◼   ► Skillshare know that you came from our

00:18:57 ◼   ► show so thanks to Skillshare for

00:18:59 ◼   ► supporting hello Internet and thanks to

00:19:01 ◼   ► Skillshare for teaching people the

00:19:03 ◼   ► skills they can use to make their lives

00:19:06 ◼   ► better a thing has happened which we all

00:19:10 ◼   ► know we have been waiting for it to

00:19:12 ◼   ► happen a bad thing that was inevitable

00:19:15 ◼   ► which is we have had now the first death

00:19:20 ◼   ► as a result of a self-driving car as in

00:19:23 ◼   ► hitting a pedestrian because people have

00:19:24 ◼   ► died in their own cars already there

00:19:26 ◼   ► have been a bunch of these like leading

00:19:28 ◼   ► up incidences I think some of which

00:19:30 ◼   ► we've even talked about on the show in

00:19:32 ◼   ► the past where like someone is in a car

00:19:35 ◼   ► and they're not paying attention or like

00:19:37 ◼   ► there's accidents but this is one where

00:19:40 ◼   ► it was

00:19:42 ◼   ► uber testing a like fully autonomous

00:19:45 ◼   ► self-driving car and there was someone

00:19:48 ◼   ► behind the wheel who was just like

00:19:50 ◼   ► keeping an eye on the equipment and a

00:19:52 ◼   ► pedestrian walking a bicycle across the

00:19:55 ◼   ► street got hit by the uber and died

00:20:00 ◼   ► this to me is like the first like

00:20:03 ◼   ► clearest example of someone has died

00:20:06 ◼   ► from a self-driving car that was being

00:20:09 ◼   ► autonomous and it's a car that is

00:20:11 ◼   ► designed to be autonomous in the way

00:20:14 ◼   ► that we're all thinking about as opposed

00:20:16 ◼   ► to the malfunction of a system which is

00:20:19 ◼   ► much more like an assistive driving

00:20:22 ◼   ► system or like a lane maintaining system

00:20:24 ◼   ► yeah what do you think about this as a

00:20:27 ◼   ► moment in time or as a news story that

00:20:30 ◼   ► has occurred it's a significant sort of

00:20:32 ◼   ► moment like in terms of being a

00:20:34 ◼   ► milestone I've seen footage of the

00:20:35 ◼   ► accident mm-hm and I've seen what a lot

00:20:37 ◼   ► of people wrote about the accident

00:20:39 ◼   ► and like to look at it without knowing

00:20:42 ◼   ► all the facts like it does seem like

00:20:44 ◼   ► this person was crossing the road in a

00:20:47 ◼   ► way that wasn't like being super super

00:20:50 ◼   ► cautious like they did seem to be

00:20:53 ◼   ► crossing the road in a way that looked

00:20:55 ◼   ► dangerous but we're also told these

00:20:59 ◼   ► self-driving cars can see everything off

00:21:01 ◼   ► to the sides and know what's going on

00:21:02 ◼   ► and predict these things and so all the

00:21:05 ◼   ► people who are saying well of course no

00:21:07 ◼   ► one could have avoided that no human

00:21:09 ◼   ► could have avoided it how do we expect a

00:21:10 ◼   ► self-driving car to avoid it well I will

00:21:13 ◼   ► hold self-driving cars to a higher

00:21:15 ◼   ► standard but you can only hold them to

00:21:17 ◼   ► so high standard if someone wants to die

00:21:19 ◼   ► by jumping in love this person did but

00:21:22 ◼   ► if someone wants to die by jumping in

00:21:24 ◼   ► front of a car they they can still do it

00:21:25 ◼   ► with a self-driving car so I think we

00:21:27 ◼   ► have to realize people are still gonna

00:21:29 ◼   ► die at the hands of self-driving cars I

00:21:32 ◼   ► think this was just a a milestone that

00:21:34 ◼   ► was always gonna happen

00:21:35 ◼   ► it'll slow things down it does make me

00:21:38 ◼   ► wonder if when the first person died

00:21:39 ◼   ► from an actual car like you know back in

00:21:42 ◼   ► the olden days whether or not cars being

00:21:45 ◼   ► on the road was stopped for like six

00:21:47 ◼   ► months while people rethought the

00:21:48 ◼   ► situation like was it the same back then

00:21:51 ◼   ► when the first pedestrian got hit by

00:21:52 ◼   ► some five miles an hour

00:21:55 ◼   ► automobile did everyone go no we can't

00:21:58 ◼   ► have these things on the road and go up

00:22:00 ◼   ► in arms well there was no social media

00:22:01 ◼   ► on which to share these stories

00:22:04 ◼   ► who knows how information was spread

00:22:06 ◼   ► back in those days of yore nobody nobody

00:22:08 ◼   ► knows I think it's interesting because

00:22:10 ◼   ► this happened a little while ago and I

00:22:12 ◼   ► remem

00:22:13 ◼   ► when the first thing that could be even

00:22:15 ◼   ► classified as a kind of accident with

00:22:17 ◼   ► any self-driving occurred which i think

00:22:18 ◼   ► was something like a tesla system a

00:22:20 ◼   ► couple years ago on the highway had an

00:22:22 ◼   ► accident that became like the first

00:22:23 ◼   ► story about this I thought it was

00:22:26 ◼   ► interesting to see that that blew over

00:22:28 ◼   ► relatively quickly and I feel like this

00:22:31 ◼   ► story as well at least from the little

00:22:33 ◼   ► bit I've been keeping an eye on it seems

00:22:35 ◼   ► like it's blowing its way through the

00:22:38 ◼   ► news cycle pretty quickly yeah I don't

00:22:40 ◼   ► know if this is actually going to have

00:22:42 ◼   ► any significant effect on the

00:22:45 ◼   ► development of self-driving cars you can

00:22:48 ◼   ► find the video online that shows the

00:22:50 ◼   ► camera in front of the car and I agree

00:22:53 ◼   ► that it's a case where no human driver

00:22:55 ◼   ► could have possibly avoided that

00:22:56 ◼   ► accident it's at nighttime the woman

00:22:59 ◼   ► walking the bicycle is walking across a

00:23:01 ◼   ► highway where there's not a pedestrian

00:23:03 ◼   ► intersection and by the time she appears

00:23:06 ◼   ► in the headlights

00:23:07 ◼   ► the accident is inevitable like there's

00:23:09 ◼   ► no way even if the car slammed on the

00:23:11 ◼   ► brakes immediately there's no way that

00:23:13 ◼   ► you could possibly do it but I feel like

00:23:15 ◼   ► I don't need self-driving cars to be

00:23:20 ◼   ► better than humans to be on the road I

00:23:23 ◼   ► feel like they just need to be

00:23:25 ◼   ► equivalent to humans that is my my point

00:23:29 ◼   ► of like where can we start putting

00:23:31 ◼   ► self-driving cars on the road no I need

00:23:33 ◼   ► to be better ok why do they need to be

00:23:35 ◼   ► better and how much better because when

00:23:37 ◼   ► they need to better cuz we're so bad at

00:23:39 ◼   ► driving like L live was unacceptable

00:23:41 ◼   ► basically but they don't need to be

00:23:44 ◼   ► infallible they need to be more

00:23:46 ◼   ► impressive than humans and how could

00:23:48 ◼   ► they not be because we're such bad

00:23:50 ◼   ► drivers they are already better so I

00:23:52 ◼   ► think this debates already over yeah I

00:23:54 ◼   ► did see someone on Twitter make a joke

00:23:56 ◼   ► or something like a self-driving car has

00:23:58 ◼   ► killed one person today and people

00:24:00 ◼   ► driving cars will kill 3,000 people

00:24:01 ◼   ► today right which is like Oh God it's an

00:24:04 ◼   ► unfair comparison in many ways but I

00:24:06 ◼   ► think it really does make a point of

00:24:08 ◼   ► humans are terrible drivers my feeling

00:24:11 ◼   ► there was like I'm happy with

00:24:12 ◼   ► equivalency because I think the benefits

00:24:15 ◼   ► that you get from the self-driving car

00:24:17 ◼   ► then make that mental calculus of is

00:24:19 ◼   ► this better it makes it clearly better

00:24:21 ◼   ► even if the self-driving cars are only

00:24:23 ◼   ► at human level and I feel like it's

00:24:25 ◼   ► inevitable that they'll obviously keep

00:24:27 ◼   ► improve

00:24:27 ◼   ► over time but you're right that it is a

00:24:30 ◼   ► case where the story about the

00:24:32 ◼   ► self-driving cars is like oh they have

00:24:34 ◼   ► lidar which looks in all directions and

00:24:35 ◼   ► can see everything it does raise the

00:24:38 ◼   ► human expectation that like oh this car

00:24:40 ◼   ► should always be able to see all

00:24:42 ◼   ► pedestrians in all situations I also

00:24:45 ◼   ► wanted to mention the story because

00:24:46 ◼   ► there's a thing that has been on my mind

00:24:48 ◼   ► for a while with self-driving cars which

00:24:52 ◼   ► I find myself wondering or maybe I

00:24:57 ◼   ► should say reevaluating my position on

00:24:59 ◼   ► how fast this is actually going to occur

00:25:01 ◼   ► because when I put out that humans need

00:25:05 ◼   ► not apply video a few years ago it felt

00:25:08 ◼   ► like things were moving very quickly in

00:25:10 ◼   ► the world of self-driving technology and

00:25:12 ◼   ► most people were not aware of it and now

00:25:15 ◼   ► that people know self-driving cars are a

00:25:18 ◼   ► thing and that they exist and people are

00:25:20 ◼   ► sort of waiting for self-driving cars it

00:25:24 ◼   ► feels like there has been just very very

00:25:28 ◼   ► slow progress in this field and I wonder

00:25:33 ◼   ► like is this a technology that is going

00:25:34 ◼   ► through some kind of s-curve where there

00:25:39 ◼   ► was no progress made for a long time and

00:25:41 ◼   ► then like the year 2000 s things start

00:25:43 ◼   ► to speed up and accelerates and then we

00:25:46 ◼   ► hit like 2015 and it looks like oh man

00:25:49 ◼   ► it's gonna be here any day and then all

00:25:50 ◼   ► of a sudden it starts to really level

00:25:52 ◼   ► off like the rate at which we're making

00:25:53 ◼   ► progress in this area and I do wonder if

00:25:56 ◼   ► it is the case where it's a

00:25:59 ◼   ► technological problem where the last 10

00:26:01 ◼   ► or 15 percent of the problem turns out

00:26:04 ◼   ► to be you know 85% of the actual work

00:26:07 ◼   ► that getting a car - not quite human

00:26:10 ◼   ► level is much much simpler than getting

00:26:14 ◼   ► it to human level like getting it to

00:26:16 ◼   ► that last 10% but I am aware that I feel

00:26:19 ◼   ► like past me expected there to be more

00:26:22 ◼   ► progress in self-driving cars by now

00:26:24 ◼   ► then there actually are and I feel like

00:26:27 ◼   ► we've only seen the smallest scale tests

00:26:29 ◼   ► of these things so you think this last

00:26:32 ◼   ► 15 10 % that we might be going through

00:26:35 ◼   ► at the moment is purely going to be a

00:26:37 ◼   ► technological hurdle we haven't started

00:26:39 ◼   ► running into the social and political

00:26:41 ◼   ► side of things you think it's so

00:26:43 ◼   ► technology now it's funny I didn't

00:26:45 ◼   ► mention it because that is just not a

00:26:47 ◼   ► thing that's even on my radar I really

00:26:48 ◼   ► just don't think that that is going to

00:26:50 ◼   ► be any kind of significant barrier right

00:26:52 ◼   ► I still think it is such a technological

00:26:55 ◼   ► advantage if we can get it there that

00:26:57 ◼   ► there's no way that the places that say

00:27:00 ◼   ► oh we're gonna wait on self-driving cars

00:27:02 ◼   ► I feel like that is such a self slowdown

00:27:04 ◼   ► that very few places will do that like

00:27:06 ◼   ► it would be like banning cellphones

00:27:08 ◼   ► because we're not quite sure how

00:27:10 ◼   ► addictive they are yet it's like well

00:27:12 ◼   ► okay good luck with that

00:27:13 ◼   ► but the rest of the world is gonna

00:27:15 ◼   ► totally leave you behind

00:27:16 ◼   ► and I think that yeah when we do get the

00:27:18 ◼   ► self-driving cars it'll be the same

00:27:19 ◼   ► thing that if some states or some

00:27:21 ◼   ► country say mmm we're gonna hold off on

00:27:24 ◼   ► this for a little while it's going to be

00:27:25 ◼   ► just such a tremendous economic

00:27:26 ◼   ► advantage that they won't be able to do

00:27:28 ◼   ► so oh yeah

00:27:29 ◼   ► I don't know I wonder if it's just gonna

00:27:31 ◼   ► take a lot longer than I expected I hope

00:27:33 ◼   ► it doesn't but I'm a little worried that

00:27:34 ◼   ► it might well I'm finding every time I

00:27:36 ◼   ► think it's gonna take forever at speeds

00:27:38 ◼   ► up and every time I think it's gonna be

00:27:39 ◼   ► tomorrow it slows down so I've given up

00:27:41 ◼   ► all together I have this feeling almost

00:27:43 ◼   ► like as soon as we publish this episode

00:27:45 ◼   ► again it's going to be like oh and

00:27:47 ◼   ► self-driving cars are here in three

00:27:49 ◼   ► weeks they're on sale right you can

00:27:50 ◼   ► pre-order them now I read an article in

00:27:52 ◼   ► the paper this morning that really

00:27:53 ◼   ► disappointed me about self-driving cars

00:27:55 ◼   ► they hmm they're talking about building

00:27:57 ◼   ► into the interface for self-driving cars

00:28:00 ◼   ► things to keep people's attention

00:28:02 ◼   ► whether it's like you know games of

00:28:04 ◼   ► tetris or things like that so that

00:28:07 ◼   ► people will stay alert so they can take

00:28:09 ◼   ► over the car in an emergency that's not

00:28:11 ◼   ► what I want my self-driving car to be I

00:28:13 ◼   ► want to be in the back reading the paper

00:28:15 ◼   ► or working on my laptop I don't want to

00:28:17 ◼   ► have to be ready to take over in an

00:28:18 ◼   ► emergency that's an excellent point and

00:28:20 ◼   ► I think there is a way where we are

00:28:23 ◼   ► actually in a little bit of a dangerous

00:28:26 ◼   ► like local minimum right now with

00:28:28 ◼   ► self-driving technology because like my

00:28:31 ◼   ► parents bought a new car that has a lot

00:28:33 ◼   ► of Drive assistance stuff in it so we

00:28:37 ◼   ► can do things similar there too like

00:28:38 ◼   ► what Tesla's will do where you can tell

00:28:41 ◼   ► it to stay in a lane and it will

00:28:43 ◼   ► maintain its position within that Lane

00:28:46 ◼   ► on a highway even if it goes around the

00:28:47 ◼   ► corner or it will be able to like you

00:28:50 ◼   ► should if you're trying to minimize the

00:28:52 ◼   ► amount of traffic like it'll keep an

00:28:54 ◼   ► equal distance between the

00:28:55 ◼   ► in front of it and behind it on the

00:28:57 ◼   ► highway and it will do some limited

00:29:00 ◼   ► accident avoidance stuff and it's very

00:29:03 ◼   ► interesting to drive that and play

00:29:04 ◼   ► around with that but I really do think

00:29:06 ◼   ► it does put humans in the worst

00:29:10 ◼   ► situation where the car is good enough

00:29:14 ◼   ► on the highway that you feel like you

00:29:16 ◼   ► don't need to pay any attention at all

00:29:18 ◼   ► which must dramatically raise the

00:29:21 ◼   ► possibility of an accident like I would

00:29:23 ◼   ► love to see what the numbers are for

00:29:26 ◼   ► what is the accident rate per 100,000

00:29:30 ◼   ► miles when Lane maintenance is engaged

00:29:33 ◼   ► on a highway and I wouldn't be the least

00:29:35 ◼   ► bit surprised if like minor traffic

00:29:37 ◼   ► accidents go up because the person feels

00:29:41 ◼   ► like I don't have to really pay

00:29:42 ◼   ► attention I can be doing something else

00:29:44 ◼   ► like and I noticed that behavior in

00:29:46 ◼   ► myself when I was driving that car it's

00:29:49 ◼   ► like oh I'm on the highway I feel much

00:29:51 ◼   ► safer looking at my phone in a way that

00:29:55 ◼   ► if I was driving a car without it I feel

00:29:57 ◼   ► like the phone doesn't exist for me if

00:29:58 ◼   ► I'm driving a car without any assistance

00:30:00 ◼   ► stuff and I found myself like oh maybe I

00:30:03 ◼   ► can just look at that text message and

00:30:05 ◼   ► see what it was about or I want to

00:30:06 ◼   ► change what podcast I'm listening to I

00:30:08 ◼   ► can flip over and do like a fiddly app

00:30:10 ◼   ► switch on my phone right now because I

00:30:11 ◼   ► the car's got it on the highway so I

00:30:13 ◼   ► wouldn't be surprised if cars with that

00:30:15 ◼   ► stuff are a little bit worse than cars

00:30:17 ◼   ► without it that's like we need to push

00:30:18 ◼   ► past here to get to exactly what you're

00:30:21 ◼   ► talking about like I can sit in the back

00:30:23 ◼   ► with a laptop and not have to care at

00:30:25 ◼   ► all but if if you need to have Tetris on

00:30:28 ◼   ► the dashboard to keep a person mentally

00:30:29 ◼   ► engaged I think that's almost worse than

00:30:32 ◼   ► not having that technology at all there

00:30:35 ◼   ► was a plane crash caused by a pilot

00:30:37 ◼   ► basically saying these things can land

00:30:39 ◼   ► themselves I'll prove it and didn't look

00:30:41 ◼   ► while landing and then crash the plane

00:30:43 ◼   ► and killed a bunch of people pilot snow

00:30:44 ◼   ► dares in the cockpit okay no we don't

00:30:48 ◼   ► want that that's no good okay I've been

00:30:51 ◼   ► going through the listener emails you

00:30:53 ◼   ► know what people are doing what people

00:30:54 ◼   ► have to say I know you want to have the

00:30:57 ◼   ► people feel like you're listening to

00:30:59 ◼   ► them you're looking through their

00:31:00 ◼   ► feedback always listening that's a

00:31:03 ◼   ► little much oh no no I knew when they

00:31:04 ◼   ► want to be listened to and sometimes not

00:31:06 ◼   ► been

00:31:07 ◼   ► but go message for Brady at gmail the

00:31:10 ◼   ► number four is where these things should

00:31:12 ◼   ► go and I will have a look from time to

00:31:15 ◼   ► time including an email from Ryan which

00:31:19 ◼   ► was so interesting I sent him an email

00:31:21 ◼   ► back asking for some more details and

00:31:23 ◼   ► boy did he provide them he wrote a very

00:31:26 ◼   ► lengthy reply thank you very much Ryan

00:31:28 ◼   ► but the main reason he caught my

00:31:30 ◼   ► attention was he has gotten himself a

00:31:33 ◼   ► tattoo that I thought I should share

00:31:35 ◼   ► with you ah he already had tattoos and

00:31:39 ◼   ► this is like he's kind of added this as

00:31:41 ◼   ► you'll see I think these tattoos are

00:31:43 ◼   ► sort of to reflect his interests sorry I

00:31:46 ◼   ► accidentally just sent them to my wife

00:31:49 ◼   ► replied with oh my god then we send them

00:31:55 ◼   ► to you I thought why is grey replying

00:31:57 ◼   ► with oh my god and not just saying it

00:31:58 ◼   ► out loud I've decided that we should do

00:32:01 ◼   ► this podcast via texting Brady there we

00:32:03 ◼   ► go now hopefully you've got them too oh

00:32:05 ◼   ► my god we have a nail and gear tattoo

00:32:09 ◼   ► that is connected to Oh God

00:32:14 ◼   ► okay USB symbol at the other end and

00:32:17 ◼   ► that's a representation of a certain

00:32:19 ◼   ► kind of chemical connection right the

00:32:22 ◼   ► hexagon with the three lines yeah I mean

00:32:23 ◼   ► that card if I paint like a benzene ring

00:32:25 ◼   ► but it can't be that cuz it's got a

00:32:27 ◼   ► whole bunch of other stuff I don't know

00:32:28 ◼   ► what that is but yes so three symbols

00:32:30 ◼   ► connected to each other the nail and

00:32:33 ◼   ► gear the benzene ring and the USB symbol

00:32:36 ◼   ► it's like a chemical compound that we

00:32:38 ◼   ► don't know what it is a USB symbol

00:32:40 ◼   ► coming off and most recently he's added

00:32:42 ◼   ► quite a bold nail and gear to his inner

00:32:45 ◼   ► arm it looks very fresh that nail and

00:32:47 ◼   ► cure yeah that picture you're looking at

00:32:49 ◼   ► was very soon after it was done he says

00:32:51 ◼   ► I really love the podcast I'm a huge fan

00:32:53 ◼   ► of you and gray the H o podcast got me

00:32:55 ◼   ► through some tough times and I want my

00:32:57 ◼   ► tattoos to be a sort of time capsule of

00:32:59 ◼   ► what was important to me at each stage

00:33:01 ◼   ► in my life

00:33:02 ◼   ► it took about half an hour to have done

00:33:03 ◼   ► my friends like the tattoo although some

00:33:06 ◼   ► of them got a bit confused when they

00:33:07 ◼   ► asked me what the nailing gear was and I

00:33:09 ◼   ► went on a five-minute tangent on the

00:33:11 ◼   ► podcast about plane crashes and flags

00:33:14 ◼   ► so this is a thing Brady you send me

00:33:16 ◼   ► these I get nervous with the tattoos

00:33:18 ◼   ► there is definitely a way in which I

00:33:21 ◼   ► obviously think about tattoos in a

00:33:25 ◼   ► different way than people who get

00:33:26 ◼   ► tattoos think about tattoos I think that

00:33:28 ◼   ► way too

00:33:29 ◼   ► yeah yeah and even that comment from

00:33:32 ◼   ► Ryan sums up what I've heard from a lot

00:33:36 ◼   ► of people with tattoos where they want

00:33:37 ◼   ► them as markers of a point in life and I

00:33:43 ◼   ► can't think about tattoos that way I am

00:33:47 ◼   ► tattoo las' as I'm sure will be a

00:33:50 ◼   ► surprise to no one in the world it'll be

00:33:52 ◼   ► a surprise to Ryan cuz he says in his

00:33:53 ◼   ► longer version of the email that he

00:33:55 ◼   ► feels like he's on the same wavelength

00:33:56 ◼   ► as you not about tattoos they may be

00:33:59 ◼   ► just about other things I feel like

00:34:01 ◼   ► there's a lot of pressure all of a

00:34:02 ◼   ► sudden right because when someone puts a

00:34:04 ◼   ► tattoo on their body and they say oh I

00:34:08 ◼   ► love the show right now what happens if

00:34:12 ◼   ► you decide in the future that you're not

00:34:15 ◼   ► such fans of us but nothing's ever gonna

00:34:17 ◼   ► change the fact he was a fan for I know

00:34:19 ◼   ► I know this is exactly it like this is

00:34:21 ◼   ► what I try to understand is this idea of

00:34:24 ◼   ► it is a marker of a time and so the

00:34:27 ◼   ► future is not affecting the thing like

00:34:30 ◼   ► tattoos I feel like are the opposite of

00:34:32 ◼   ► my mental framework because people who

00:34:37 ◼   ► get tattoos it does seem to be much more

00:34:40 ◼   ► passed focus like it's a marker of a

00:34:42 ◼   ► thing that happened and of course I feel

00:34:46 ◼   ► like I want nothing to do with the past

00:34:49 ◼   ► it doesn't exist anymore I have no

00:34:51 ◼   ► interest in it it is gone

00:34:53 ◼   ► and it is only about the future so when

00:34:55 ◼   ► I look at tattoos I can't not always

00:34:57 ◼   ► mentally frame them from the perspective

00:35:00 ◼   ► of what will future me think about this

00:35:04 ◼   ► tattoo which then always leads me to the

00:35:06 ◼   ► conclusion of well I don't have any idea

00:35:09 ◼   ► what that guy's going to think about

00:35:10 ◼   ► this and then like well I can't make

00:35:13 ◼   ► decisions for that guy in this way so

00:35:16 ◼   ► I'm like I'm not going to get a tattoo

00:35:17 ◼   ► but when I've spoken to people who have

00:35:21 ◼   ► tattoos and I try to explain my thinking

00:35:22 ◼   ► about them they look at me like I'm

00:35:24 ◼   ► crazy

00:35:25 ◼   ► and I clearly don't understand

00:35:27 ◼   ► so yeah I mean it can go wrong I just

00:35:31 ◼   ► sent you a tattoo that was doing the

00:35:32 ◼   ► rounds quite recently that someone got a

00:35:34 ◼   ► few days before all the news stories

00:35:36 ◼   ► broke about Kevin Spacey and he got a

00:35:38 ◼   ► tattoo of Kevin Spacey on his arm and

00:35:39 ◼   ► then like you know all that stuff hit

00:35:42 ◼   ► the fan it's a bit like what does that

00:35:43 ◼   ► mean now that's the problem there's a

00:35:46 ◼   ► reason that most countries also decide

00:35:48 ◼   ► that they are only going to put dead

00:35:50 ◼   ► people on their money is to avoid this

00:35:52 ◼   ► sort of problem if you don't want to put

00:35:54 ◼   ► a living person on your money and then

00:35:57 ◼   ► that living person does something that

00:35:59 ◼   ► you as a country don't like they start

00:36:02 ◼   ► spilling the necessary lies of

00:36:04 ◼   ► civilization and you're like oh no we

00:36:05 ◼   ► just put them on the $2 bill I don't

00:36:07 ◼   ► think Frank Underwood is a president

00:36:09 ◼   ► he'd want to put on your American money

00:36:10 ◼   ► anyway so I think we were gonna always

00:36:12 ◼   ► gonna be safe on that one well Ryan's

00:36:14 ◼   ► happy with her he thinks and looks good

00:36:16 ◼   ► and I think it looks good it does look

00:36:18 ◼   ► good it does look good and we appreciate

00:36:20 ◼   ► it and we will try to keep the support

00:36:22 ◼   ► cast that is worthy of your tattoo no

00:36:24 ◼   ► sorry I shouldn't say that that's what

00:36:25 ◼   ► you don't mean to say yes because all

00:36:27 ◼   ► right because look we're not gonna be

00:36:28 ◼   ► beholden to Ryan that's not what's going

00:36:30 ◼   ► to happen right and we make no promises

00:36:32 ◼   ► about the future quality of this show

00:36:34 ◼   ► right

00:36:35 ◼   ► Brady feels happy about it I feel

00:36:37 ◼   ► slightly uncomfortable about it but I am

00:36:39 ◼   ► glad that you are glad that's what

00:36:42 ◼   ► matters you got to make decisions for

00:36:43 ◼   ► you you don't make decisions for me oh

00:36:45 ◼   ► so I had another photo from a viewer a

00:36:49 ◼   ► kind of what you do while listening to

00:36:50 ◼   ► hello internet moment that really

00:36:52 ◼   ► tickled me before I Audrey that's just

00:36:57 ◼   ► that's terrible she's getting worse

00:36:58 ◼   ► great she wants to be on the podcast but

00:37:00 ◼   ► he is on the podcast so here's one from

00:37:04 ◼   ► Eden I am a student studying ecology I'm

00:37:08 ◼   ► currently working on research about

00:37:09 ◼   ► differences in animal community

00:37:11 ◼   ► structure that result from external

00:37:13 ◼   ► factors around streams one of the things

00:37:17 ◼   ► this involves is collecting fish and

00:37:19 ◼   ► measuring 24 different parts of the

00:37:21 ◼   ► fish's body which is amazing to me

00:37:23 ◼   ► because I didn't know fish had 24 parts

00:37:24 ◼   ► of their body I tend to listen to

00:37:26 ◼   ► podcasts while doing this as it is

00:37:28 ◼   ► tedious work hello internet is of course

00:37:31 ◼   ► the world's greatest podcast trademark

00:37:34 ◼   ► because I like to listen to you and gray

00:37:36 ◼   ► discuss those pesky flag flag ripples

00:37:38 ◼   ► while I work I've attached

00:37:40 ◼   ► lightly morbid proof of my claim keep up

00:37:43 ◼   ► the work so here's the picture the fish

00:37:47 ◼   ► studier

00:37:48 ◼   ► eden has sent grouse I feel like I can

00:37:51 ◼   ► smell all of those fish on that

00:37:53 ◼   ► measuring tray through this photograph

00:37:55 ◼   ► that has a very fishy photograph nicely

00:37:58 ◼   ► arranged in a pattern we have some dead

00:38:01 ◼   ► fish spelling out a chai and some tiny

00:38:06 ◼   ► little fish around a border making the H

00:38:09 ◼   ► I love go all on a medical examining

00:38:11 ◼   ► tray I love that I love that there is a

00:38:13 ◼   ► little tiny little baby sad anyone's

00:38:15 ◼   ► make up the little dots of the border

00:38:17 ◼   ► and the big fish make the lettuce I was

00:38:19 ◼   ► originally going to say I don't believe

00:38:20 ◼   ► this photograph because I don't see the

00:38:22 ◼   ► mandatory podcast logo in the image and

00:38:25 ◼   ► then it took me a second to resolve what

00:38:27 ◼   ► I was actually looking at it like oh

00:38:28 ◼   ► right the fish are the logo I don't know

00:38:30 ◼   ► what kind of fish they are but they're

00:38:31 ◼   ► freaky looking their eyes are scary I

00:38:33 ◼   ► think that's how things look when

00:38:34 ◼   ► they're dead Brady you know they passed

00:38:36 ◼   ► on to the next realm and their eyes are

00:38:38 ◼   ► all cloudy I've seen dead fish in the

00:38:40 ◼   ► fish market and their eyes were as cold

00:38:42 ◼   ► and dead as those ones I'm very happy

00:38:45 ◼   ► that people listen to the show I'm happy

00:38:46 ◼   ► that it gets them through tedious things

00:38:48 ◼   ► in their life and I'm happy that

00:38:50 ◼   ► somewhere in the world someone arranged

00:38:52 ◼   ► a bunch of fish in a laboratory to spill

00:38:55 ◼   ► out the HR logo sentences you'd never

00:38:57 ◼   ► thought you'd say Brady when you bring

00:38:59 ◼   ► stuff to me especially when you bring

00:39:01 ◼   ► stuff from listeners I never know what's

00:39:03 ◼   ► going to happen and I always feel

00:39:04 ◼   ► slightly apprehensive no sigh well yeah

00:39:13 ◼   ► I'm something big because there is a

00:39:17 ◼   ► plague that is spreading through the

00:39:20 ◼   ► world Brady and that plagues name is

00:39:23 ◼   ► bitmoji yeah bit mochi yep and I know

00:39:29 ◼   ► you know what bitmoji are huh

00:39:32 ◼   ► because you created one as well recently

00:39:36 ◼   ► hey I've had mine for a while I just

00:39:38 ◼   ► never send it to you yeah as you know

00:39:41 ◼   ► better yeah I think that's why bitmoji

00:39:45 ◼   ► it's a company that's obviously decided

00:39:47 ◼   ► the regular emoji not enough and so what

00:39:51 ◼   ► they allow you to do is you can create

00:39:54 ◼   ► little avatar of yourself and then this

00:39:59 ◼   ► app will allow you to place that avatar

00:40:00 ◼   ► in a bazillion situations so it was like

00:40:04 ◼   ► you're creating a custom mochi for

00:40:07 ◼   ► everything that's possible Under the Sun

00:40:09 ◼   ► would you say that's a fair description

00:40:11 ◼   ► of what the bitmoji are it's kind of

00:40:14 ◼   ► fair the only thing that's not fair

00:40:15 ◼   ► about it and I think this is a problem

00:40:17 ◼   ► with the name maybe is it's not like a

00:40:19 ◼   ► replacement for emojis to me it's just a

00:40:22 ◼   ► different toy it's just a different fun

00:40:24 ◼   ► things yeah they're using the the Apple

00:40:26 ◼   ► sticker method they're not really emoji

00:40:28 ◼   ► like bitmoji is a good name but it there

00:40:30 ◼   ► are custom stickers but I think that

00:40:32 ◼   ► when people use bitmoji they often start

00:40:35 ◼   ► to displace the regular emoji so what

00:40:39 ◼   ► you could do so people can better

00:40:40 ◼   ► understand if grey said let's meet at 4

00:40:43 ◼   ► o'clock and maybe I would send him an

00:40:46 ◼   ► emoji of just a thumbs up instead I

00:40:48 ◼   ► could send him this customized a little

00:40:49 ◼   ► Brady that looks just like me riding a

00:40:52 ◼   ► horse saying yes let's do it or

00:40:54 ◼   ► something like that right these things

00:40:56 ◼   ► are awful they're terrible I would love

00:40:59 ◼   ► to say one of you I'm gonna design one

00:41:01 ◼   ► to look like you just to see if I can do

00:41:03 ◼   ► it

00:41:03 ◼   ► do not Brady I am it no you know I won't

00:41:05 ◼   ► put it out there because it'll look so

00:41:07 ◼   ► much like II that that would be unfair

00:41:08 ◼   ► for spoilers but I'm gonna make one just

00:41:10 ◼   ► as my own little project great have you

00:41:15 ◼   ► tried to make one look like you no of

00:41:17 ◼   ► course I haven't tried to make one look

00:41:19 ◼   ► like me I mean look here's this thing

00:41:20 ◼   ► these bitmoji they're just like a

00:41:22 ◼   ► nightmare from an episode of Black

00:41:24 ◼   ► Mirror these are so close to the little

00:41:28 ◼   ► avatars in 15 million merits which is

00:41:30 ◼   ► still my favorite black mirror episode I

00:41:33 ◼   ► swear to God when people send them to me

00:41:36 ◼   ► they make me sad they really do like I

00:41:40 ◼   ► was on a thread recently with a bunch of

00:41:42 ◼   ► people and it's like oh this is supposed

00:41:44 ◼   ► to be like a happy event and everybody

00:41:46 ◼   ► is expressing their emotions through the

00:41:48 ◼   ► bitmoji maybe there's something wrong

00:41:50 ◼   ► with me but I feel like it sucks all of

00:41:55 ◼   ► the genuine emotion out of the world

00:41:57 ◼   ► like even emojis regular emojis do this

00:42:00 ◼   ► to some acquitted out like there's a way

00:42:02 ◼   ► that they kind of suck out emotion in

00:42:05 ◼   ► your expression

00:42:07 ◼   ► the bitmoji is like more and more people

00:42:08 ◼   ► are using them and because they're

00:42:10 ◼   ► customizable for every situation you see

00:42:13 ◼   ► them all the time and I'd like they make

00:42:15 ◼   ► me sad and seeing people use them to

00:42:19 ◼   ► express thoughts a lot it's like I hate

00:42:21 ◼   ► them I hate them so much

00:42:23 ◼   ► and they're creepy they're so creepy and

00:42:27 ◼   ► I had to endure this longest hour of my

00:42:31 ◼   ► life when my wife finally got sucked up

00:42:34 ◼   ► in the bitmoji thing and she was

00:42:36 ◼   ► creating her own bitmoji avatar she's

00:42:38 ◼   ► good at though she's good at it

00:42:40 ◼   ► she kept asking me does this one look

00:42:44 ◼   ► more like me whenever she would show me

00:42:49 ◼   ► one it's like that doesn't look like you

00:42:51 ◼   ► that looks like an uncanny valley

00:42:53 ◼   ► nightmare version of you the thing I

00:42:56 ◼   ► don't get as well is that like almost

00:42:58 ◼   ► all the women I know they're bitmoji

00:43:00 ◼   ► look exactly the same whereas the men I

00:43:02 ◼   ► know like that kind of looks like them

00:43:04 ◼   ► and I don't know why that is

00:43:05 ◼   ► I can't figure out why it is but like I

00:43:07 ◼   ► know three or four women who use bitmoji

00:43:09 ◼   ► all look the same it could be any of

00:43:11 ◼   ► them my wasn't happy with hers and I

00:43:14 ◼   ► said what do you think of mine she's

00:43:16 ◼   ► like yes yours looks just like you like

00:43:17 ◼   ► angrily she said has more options or

00:43:21 ◼   ► something but I don't know why this has

00:43:22 ◼   ► happened but it feels like it has

00:43:23 ◼   ► happened I'll tell you that bitmoji app

00:43:25 ◼   ► is not short on options though my wife

00:43:28 ◼   ► was doing this on the iPad so she could

00:43:30 ◼   ► have like the full palette of everything

00:43:32 ◼   ► that was possible

00:43:33 ◼   ► I couldn't believe like the enormous

00:43:36 ◼   ► number of options to be able to maintain

00:43:39 ◼   ► different noises and oh 19 we would be

00:43:41 ◼   ► blessed with but 19 noses to go through

00:43:44 ◼   ► right there were hundreds of noses she's

00:43:47 ◼   ► like is this one more like me or is this

00:43:48 ◼   ► one more than me like I don't like any

00:43:49 ◼   ► of them they all make me uncomfortable

00:43:50 ◼   ► it's all securely in the uncanny valley

00:43:53 ◼   ► please never send this to me ever it

00:43:55 ◼   ► will make me sad I don't like it but

00:43:58 ◼   ► they just keep spreading and people keep

00:43:59 ◼   ► using them I want them to go away but

00:44:02 ◼   ► they won't it's too much like it's too

00:44:04 ◼   ► far I feel like the constraint of but

00:44:07 ◼   ► like 200 regular emojis is almost good

00:44:10 ◼   ► for people it's like it's too adaptable

00:44:13 ◼   ► and then people use it for everything

00:44:15 ◼   ► and it it makes me die a little inside

00:44:18 ◼   ► every time I see one

00:44:20 ◼   ► says the man who portrays himself

00:44:22 ◼   ► publicly and videos with an animated

00:44:24 ◼   ► stick figure and face and doing key

00:44:26 ◼   ► things yeah in my youtube videos which

00:44:28 ◼   ► are produced like I'm not when we text

00:44:30 ◼   ► Brady I don't quickly in Inkscape whip

00:44:33 ◼   ► together and exactly correct CGP grey to

00:44:36 ◼   ► be a response to everything that you do

00:44:38 ◼   ► know it's is totally different don't

00:44:40 ◼   ► even try to compare it like those things

00:44:42 ◼   ► are the same and also I don't think the

00:44:44 ◼   ► stick figure has like the creepy creepy

00:44:46 ◼   ► Dead Eye uncanny valley nests of these

00:44:49 ◼   ► bitmoji 's don't you agree with me

00:44:51 ◼   ► aren't they unsettling in the way that

00:44:53 ◼   ► they look no I don't agree with you they

00:44:56 ◼   ► don't unsettle me go to bitmoji comm and

00:44:59 ◼   ► look upon the nightmare that stares back

00:45:01 ◼   ► at you from the top of that page I'm

00:45:02 ◼   ► gonna make a CGP grey one I tell you why

00:45:05 ◼   ► I could see it to be a green one you

00:45:06 ◼   ► actually physically cannot stop me it's

00:45:09 ◼   ► impossible I can't believe your wife

00:45:11 ◼   ► didn't make one of you and said looks

00:45:14 ◼   ► like you because she respected my

00:45:15 ◼   ► desires and she knows never to send me

00:45:19 ◼   ► the bit mode I don't even like seeing

00:45:20 ◼   ► her using the bitmoji talking with other

00:45:22 ◼   ► people I just like I don't want to see

00:45:24 ◼   ► them they're creepy and they're weird

00:45:26 ◼   ► and my wife respects my desires unlike

00:45:29 ◼   ► my podcast co-host he was probably right

00:45:31 ◼   ► now giggling on his phone making a

00:45:34 ◼   ► bitmoji of me I'm looking at the front

00:45:35 ◼   ► page of the bitmoji website and there's

00:45:37 ◼   ► a one that looks a bit like me maybe

00:45:38 ◼   ► these are random I have no idea which

00:45:40 ◼   ► one you think looks like you that really

00:45:42 ◼   ► had someone the winking guy is that the

00:45:43 ◼   ► one who you think looks like you to the

00:45:46 ◼   ► right the far right

00:45:48 ◼   ► no it doesn't look a bit like you and if

00:45:50 ◼   ► it did look like you it would only look

00:45:52 ◼   ► like you in a nightmare world where

00:45:54 ◼   ► we're all trapped and emotionally

00:45:56 ◼   ► separated from each other riding on

00:45:58 ◼   ► bicycles all day long for pretend points

00:45:59 ◼   ► that's the way it would look like you

00:46:01 ◼   ► and that one on the left is the one that

00:46:02 ◼   ► looks like all the people I know who use

00:46:04 ◼   ► it generic brown hair go bitmoji thumbs

00:46:10 ◼   ► down they're terrifying hello Internet

00:46:14 ◼   ► if you are someone who bills by the hour

00:46:17 ◼   ► here's a quick mental calculation that

00:46:20 ◼   ► might leave you unsettled

00:46:22 ◼   ► how much of your time in a day are you

00:46:25 ◼   ► losing to having to complete annoying

00:46:28 ◼   ► paperwork and admin tasks how about in a

00:46:31 ◼   ► month or in a year

00:46:33 ◼   ► our friends at fresh book calculate that

00:46:36 ◼   ► you could get back as many as 192 of

00:46:39 ◼   ► those hours per year by using fresh

00:46:43 ◼   ► books ridiculously easy to use cloud

00:46:45 ◼   ► accounting software here's how it takes

00:46:48 ◼   ► about 30 seconds to send a perfectly

00:46:50 ◼   ► formatted invoice in literally two

00:46:53 ◼   ► clicks you can set yourself up to

00:46:55 ◼   ► receive payments online which means no

00:46:57 ◼   ► more trips to the ATM to deposit a

00:46:59 ◼   ► client cheque which also means you get

00:47:02 ◼   ► to say goodbye to the time vacuum that

00:47:04 ◼   ► is the expense spreadsheet FreshBooks

00:47:07 ◼   ► also has other things to help you save

00:47:09 ◼   ► time like you can take pictures of your

00:47:11 ◼   ► receipts with your phone making claiming

00:47:13 ◼   ► expenses a million times faster and

00:47:16 ◼   ► easier getting back hours to your

00:47:19 ◼   ► business means you can do more business

00:47:22 ◼   ► a hundred and ninety two hours in a year

00:47:25 ◼   ► is about sixteen hours per month that's

00:47:27 ◼   ► a whole lot of your time to get back

00:47:29 ◼   ► simply by using fresh books so if you

00:47:32 ◼   ► bill by the hour in any way and you

00:47:35 ◼   ► listen to hello internet which

00:47:37 ◼   ► definitionally you are doing right now

00:47:39 ◼   ► try out fresh books for a free

00:47:42 ◼   ► unrestricted 30-day trial to do this

00:47:45 ◼   ► just go to fresh books calm /hello and

00:47:48 ◼   ► enter hello in the how did you hear

00:47:51 ◼   ► about a section this lets fresh books

00:47:53 ◼   ► know that you came from us so once again

00:47:55 ◼   ► go to fresh books calm /hello

00:47:58 ◼   ► and enter hello in the how did you hear

00:48:00 ◼   ► about a section and get back many

00:48:03 ◼   ► billable hours for your business let's

00:48:07 ◼   ► go to a less controversial subject that

00:48:09 ◼   ► won't upset you as much as bitmoji grade

00:48:11 ◼   ► let's talk about not cease Brady this is

00:48:20 ◼   ► an interesting new story that's been

00:48:22 ◼   ► doing the rounds this caught your eye

00:48:23 ◼   ► did no it did catch my eye I feel like

00:48:26 ◼   ► bitmoji not see pugs things going on

00:48:31 ◼   ► with Facebook things going on with

00:48:32 ◼   ► YouTube I'm at a low point with my

00:48:34 ◼   ► thoughts about people and the internet

00:48:36 ◼   ► and what the internet does to people and

00:48:38 ◼   ► vice versa it's all a terrible mess

00:48:41 ◼   ► there has been a sort of conclusion to a

00:48:45 ◼   ► story which to me is a terrifying story

00:48:47 ◼   ► let me try to summarize it is a story

00:48:50 ◼   ► about a Nazi pug as in a little dog hmm

00:48:56 ◼   ► this guy up in Scotland count Deng Cola

00:49:00 ◼   ► is his online name I don't know what his

00:49:02 ◼   ► actual name is because count Acula is

00:49:04 ◼   ► way easier to remember he made a video

00:49:06 ◼   ► for youtube where he trained his

00:49:12 ◼   ► girlfriend's pug to be excited and do a

00:49:15 ◼   ► little Nazi salutes upon hearing

00:49:18 ◼   ► particular phrases particular phrases

00:49:21 ◼   ► you would expect Nazis to say so he put

00:49:25 ◼   ► together this video and he sets it up as

00:49:30 ◼   ► a joke like it's yeah there is this

00:49:33 ◼   ► little bit of a story that people always

00:49:34 ◼   ► say when they upload videos to YouTube

00:49:36 ◼   ► with like oh I only expected a few of my

00:49:38 ◼   ► friends to see a thing and then like it

00:49:39 ◼   ► went viral and I had no idea that it

00:49:41 ◼   ► would I'm not entirely sure that I

00:49:43 ◼   ► believed that because that's like a

00:49:44 ◼   ► standard story that everybody says like

00:49:46 ◼   ► I kind of think that the guy did expect

00:49:48 ◼   ► it was gonna be a bit of a viral video

00:49:49 ◼   ► but he sets it up in the beginning that

00:49:52 ◼   ► like he is playing a joke on his

00:49:56 ◼   ► girlfriend who the pug belongs to yeah

00:49:58 ◼   ► that the pug is super cute and his

00:50:00 ◼   ► girlfriend is always talking about the

00:50:02 ◼   ► pug and loves the pug so much that like

00:50:04 ◼   ► she's on vacation or something and while

00:50:06 ◼   ► she's gone he's gonna train the dog

00:50:08 ◼   ► right on like zig Heil that's going to

00:50:11 ◼   ► put up its little paw in a Nazi salute

00:50:13 ◼   ► which you can almost say the dark humor

00:50:15 ◼   ► of car he like that is this dog's the

00:50:17 ◼   ► apple of her eye and he turns into this

00:50:18 ◼   ► leg yeah it's pretty twisted but you sit

00:50:21 ◼   ► there is that twisted brand of humor

00:50:23 ◼   ► that exists yes there is a choice of

00:50:25 ◼   ► brand of humor that exists and there's

00:50:26 ◼   ► this weird thing where everybody feels

00:50:27 ◼   ► like they need to like distance

00:50:29 ◼   ► themselves a little bit from it like

00:50:30 ◼   ► when I saw this video like it's funny

00:50:32 ◼   ► like it's a funny joke and people have

00:50:35 ◼   ► to pretend like it's not funny but guess

00:50:37 ◼   ► what like part of humor is surprise and

00:50:39 ◼   ► unexpected juxtapositions of things

00:50:42 ◼   ► right and so like he films a shot where

00:50:44 ◼   ► it's like pretending like the dog is

00:50:46 ◼   ► watching a Nazi rally on TV and like

00:50:48 ◼   ► that's a funny shot because of course

00:50:50 ◼   ► like the pug doesn't know anything about

00:50:51 ◼   ► what's going on like he's just setting

00:50:53 ◼   ► up a frame yeah these are jokes and he

00:50:56 ◼   ► sets it up as a joke but what has

00:50:58 ◼   ► happened in the UK is that

00:51:01 ◼   ► the UK has less freedom of speech laws

00:51:06 ◼   ► than the United States does and there

00:51:10 ◼   ► are more caveats and this guy counting

00:51:14 ◼   ► Kela has been convicted guilty of I

00:51:20 ◼   ► forget exactly what it is but it's like

00:51:21 ◼   ► spreading obscene messages over the

00:51:24 ◼   ► Internet he's been found guilty as of

00:51:26 ◼   ► the time of recording the sentencing

00:51:29 ◼   ► hasn't occurred the sentencing is going

00:51:30 ◼   ► to happen in a couple of weeks but he is

00:51:33 ◼   ► facing prison time over a viral video

00:51:37 ◼   ► where he trains a dog to raise its paw

00:51:41 ◼   ► on particular commands and I think this

00:51:44 ◼   ► is just terrifying I agree it's

00:51:47 ◼   ► terrifying and I wonder him what'd he

00:51:48 ◼   ► say about it just to be clear though

00:51:49 ◼   ► it's not the fact that dog raises poor

00:51:50 ◼   ► that's got him in trouble it's like the

00:51:53 ◼   ► phrase he's repeating isn't it yeah okay

00:51:54 ◼   ► but so can I say the phrase are you

00:51:56 ◼   ► afraid to say the phrase Brady I think

00:51:58 ◼   ► he should not have said use that phrase

00:52:00 ◼   ► so one of the phrases that he uses in

00:52:02 ◼   ► the video is he says hi future gray here

00:52:07 ◼   ► stepping in for a moment I wouldn't

00:52:09 ◼   ► normally do this but it is a special

00:52:11 ◼   ► occasion since we recorded this episode

00:52:13 ◼   ► I looked into more of the specifics

00:52:15 ◼   ► around this law and this ruling and haha

00:52:19 ◼   ► turns out that the judge did know it was

00:52:22 ◼   ► a joke but the way the obscenity law is

00:52:25 ◼   ► written in the UK allows judges to

00:52:28 ◼   ► ignore that factor it seems to allow

00:52:30 ◼   ► judges to ignore all context around the

00:52:35 ◼   ► literal words that are spoken in

00:52:37 ◼   ► isolation from everything else which

00:52:40 ◼   ► seems to make it impossible to talk

00:52:42 ◼   ► about the bad ruling of an obscenity

00:52:45 ◼   ► case without also exposing yourself to

00:52:48 ◼   ► the very same obscenity law that you're

00:52:52 ◼   ► talking about which makes this just a

00:52:54 ◼   ► rather breathtaking catch-22 / Brazil

00:52:58 ◼   ► level law so anyway here we are

00:53:01 ◼   ► future gray is going back and cutting

00:53:04 ◼   ► off past gray and thus this very

00:53:06 ◼   ► conversation becomes an example of what

00:53:08 ◼   ► we end up talking about later in the

00:53:10 ◼   ► conversation in the video as he says

00:53:15 ◼   ► and the Pug sits up and looks interested

00:53:18 ◼   ► like he's obviously been giving the dog

00:53:19 ◼   ► treats for that phrase right clearly