Roderick on the Line

01:00:00 ◼   ► way that their personalities exhibit as

01:00:02 ◼   ► they grow older like I've been very very

01:00:07 ◼   ► engaged in her schools from the time she

01:00:11 ◼   ► first went to schools uh I go to the

01:00:12 ◼   ► schools is fine these dynamics are super

01:00:15 ◼   ► interesting they are and what people say

01:00:17 ◼   ► and with a lot more subtlety than you

01:00:19 ◼   ► realize sometimes so much subtlety and

01:00:22 ◼   ► so much like everybody says oh when

01:00:26 ◼   ► you're you know when you have a daughter

01:00:27 ◼   ► it's so much easier when they're young

01:00:30 ◼   ► and then it gets harder when they're

01:00:31 ◼   ► older and boys are terrible when they're

01:00:32 ◼   ► young and then they get easier when

01:00:34 ◼   ► they're teenage that's what they say

01:00:35 ◼   ► that's what they say and watching it

01:00:38 ◼   ► unfold like you know there are some

01:00:45 ◼   ► little boys in her class who are

01:00:47 ◼   ► profoundly sensitive and though you know

01:00:53 ◼   ► and this is a modern school in a modern

01:00:54 ◼   ► school districts like none of the girls

01:00:56 ◼   ► are being taught to like even subtly

01:01:01 ◼   ► it's all been routed out right

01:01:03 ◼   ► none of them are being taught that they

01:01:04 ◼   ► are anything other than capable leaders

01:01:06 ◼   ► but you've also got some grams you've

01:01:08 ◼   ► got grams mm-hmm who are sensitive yeah

01:01:12 ◼   ► and are not and that sensitivity is not

01:01:15 ◼   ► being seen or separated from the tails

01:01:21 ◼   ► who's just won a karate chop every class

01:01:24 ◼   ► isn't it right and the ten I'm just

01:01:27 ◼   ► gonna hit this thing with a stick until

01:01:29 ◼   ► I'm restraint

01:01:30 ◼   ► yeah and Tails not dumb I mean you

01:01:32 ◼   ► talked to Te'o tails a fine young man

01:01:34 ◼   ► just a thing though yeah if you turn

01:01:36 ◼   ► around he is he is going to he is gonna

01:01:39 ◼   ► nunchuck it and Graham has no interest

01:01:44 ◼   ► in being nunchucks like Graham Scott

01:01:47 ◼   ► Graham's got thoughts and feelings yeah

01:01:49 ◼   ► and there isn't right now any any

01:01:53 ◼   ► corresponding like social engineering

01:01:56 ◼   ► project to make sure that Graham's like

01:01:59 ◼   ► Graham's not expressing any kind of yet

01:02:02 ◼   ► Graham isn't non-binary Graham is just a

01:02:06 ◼   ► little kid like but like I was who wants

01:02:09 ◼   ► to dream

01:02:10 ◼   ► and stare out the window and he really

01:02:13 ◼   ► really cares what people how people are

01:02:15 ◼   ► feeling and there's just you know

01:02:19 ◼   ► there's not a lot of accommodations for

01:02:20 ◼   ► that in the system there's not you know

01:02:22 ◼   ► I mean I'm not pointing to anybody on

01:02:24 ◼   ► that but that's when in the great

01:02:28 ◼   ► sorting hat of school that that is know

01:02:31 ◼   ► well and the thing is if Te'o karate

01:02:34 ◼   ► chops Graham is gonna say T problem the

01:02:38 ◼   ► only way that the schools have to deal

01:02:40 ◼   ► with that right now is to characterize

01:02:42 ◼   ► that as a bullying incident but it's not

01:02:45 ◼   ► tale is not bullying Graham Graham is a

01:02:48 ◼   ► you know very powerful young person who

01:02:51 ◼   ► is not cowering around tayo tayo is not

01:02:57 ◼   ► in like tables just Te'o who's karate

01:03:00 ◼   ► chopping things and Graham is someone

01:03:04 ◼   ► who like a lot of us don't want to be

01:03:06 ◼   ► karate chop but don't know exactly how

01:03:08 ◼   ► to say no you don't know exactly how to

01:03:11 ◼   ► get through life avoiding being karate

01:03:14 ◼   ► chopped all at the same time not being

01:03:15 ◼   ► isolated still being one of the people

01:03:20 ◼   ► but if you characterize that as bullying

01:03:22 ◼   ► if Te'o gets branded a bully and Graham

01:03:25 ◼   ► gets branded the victim of a bully that

01:03:27 ◼   ► doesn't help at all because it's not the

01:03:30 ◼   ► dynamic like bullies are a very specific

01:03:34 ◼   ► small small group of children and their

01:03:39 ◼   ► behavior is is a specific thing bullying

01:03:43 ◼   ► is not as this is another social

01:03:45 ◼   ► engineering thing right bullying is not

01:03:46 ◼   ► some rampant epidemic that every kid is

01:03:49 ◼   ► doing to one another like there's a

01:03:51 ◼   ► bully you can pick the bully out the

01:03:54 ◼   ► bully is expressing something that's

01:03:55 ◼   ► going on in his family or her family and

01:03:59 ◼   ► to you know to grab tail by the shirt

01:04:02 ◼   ► and say no bullying you know we have a

01:04:03 ◼   ► no bullying posture or pop whatever yeah

01:04:06 ◼   ► policy policy well now tails like oh

01:04:09 ◼   ► shit I'm a bully like all I was doing

01:04:11 ◼   ► was karate chopping him and grams like

01:04:13 ◼   ► oh I'm a victim that's not how you want

01:04:16 ◼   ► Graham to see himself

01:04:20 ◼   ► so anyway my policy right now is just to

01:04:26 ◼   ► ride my bike along and part of it is

01:04:30 ◼   ► that I know I'm not gonna

01:04:31 ◼   ► I cannot help her and this is a terrible

01:04:37 ◼   ► admission I can be there but if her

01:04:43 ◼   ► friends decide to ice her out of a thing

01:04:52 ◼   ► if they're all playing in a circle on

01:04:55 ◼   ► the playground and she comes up and says

01:04:56 ◼   ► what are we doing and they say something

01:04:58 ◼   ► without you like no amount of advice or

01:05:04 ◼   ► or my own experience or or my

01:05:09 ◼   ► intelligence or hers can solve it

01:05:15 ◼   ► fucking hell right right and help at all

01:05:18 ◼   ► it's just less it's just a it's an

01:05:22 ◼   ► endurance test and you know that what a

01:05:26 ◼   ► day will come when she has friends again

01:05:29 ◼   ► it may be tomorrow in fact but sometimes

01:05:32 ◼   ► it's it's it's certainly it's not very

01:05:33 ◼   ► comforting back to earlier it's not very

01:05:35 ◼   ► comforting to just say you know

01:05:37 ◼   ► sometimes life sucks or sometimes this

01:05:38 ◼   ► is the way things are sometimes there

01:05:40 ◼   ► are some things I was talking to

01:05:41 ◼   ► Syracuse about this to go just go a

01:05:43 ◼   ► little dark for a second we're talking

01:05:44 ◼   ► about the UM the shooter drills that

01:05:46 ◼   ► they do in school and like around the

01:05:49 ◼   ► time after when they were like ramping

01:05:51 ◼   ► up at various schools many schools were

01:05:52 ◼   ► like basically doing like more of the

01:05:55 ◼   ► like less of the like let's hide in the

01:05:56 ◼   ► closet and more of like let's barricade

01:05:57 ◼   ► the door kind of stuff and we're talking

01:05:59 ◼   ► about like you know have you talked to

01:06:00 ◼   ► your kids about this and I was just

01:06:03 ◼   ► saying how I find it difficult because

01:06:05 ◼   ► I'm not sure what like I say this to her

01:06:09 ◼   ► obviously haven't but like I'm not sure

01:06:11 ◼   ► what she can do about that I'm not sure

01:06:17 ◼   ► what I can offer I'm trying to pivot

01:06:18 ◼   ► like sort of to what you're saying here

01:06:20 ◼   ► of like well you know sometimes people

01:06:22 ◼   ► are shady like but like what advice do

01:06:25 ◼   ► you have to give about hiding her

01:06:26 ◼   ► somebody with a gun like what do you do

01:06:28 ◼   ► to advise like everybody in that school

01:06:31 ◼   ► the phrase that I find myself turning to

01:06:32 ◼   ► a lot this is

01:06:33 ◼   ► you talk about trying on ideas like a

01:06:35 ◼   ► like a sports jacket

01:06:36 ◼   ► everybody's trying stuff out sometimes

01:06:39 ◼   ► people were trying stuff out maybe some

01:06:40 ◼   ► days maybe Tia's not being a bully he's

01:06:42 ◼   ► just trying a different karate chop and

01:06:43 ◼   ► and that doesn't mean they're gonna

01:06:44 ◼   ► always be that way

01:06:45 ◼   ► but sometimes everybody's shitty

01:06:47 ◼   ► sometimes everybody has a bad day like I

01:06:50 ◼   ► say they're just you what what makes

01:06:52 ◼   ► this a true like agent of chaos in our

01:06:54 ◼   ► lives though is sometimes people are

01:06:56 ◼   ► doing things that you won't be able to

01:06:58 ◼   ► understand and you won't be able to

01:07:00 ◼   ► prevent and I think sometimes I don't

01:07:03 ◼   ► know how often that is so great as a

01:07:05 ◼   ► piece of advice especially for a young

01:07:07 ◼   ► person because if you do that from day

01:07:09 ◼   ► one you know you just live on a farm and

01:07:10 ◼   ► have a hardscrabble existence and have

01:07:12 ◼   ► family dies you just say well shit

01:07:13 ◼   ► happens but I I mean there's times where

01:07:15 ◼   ► I'm like I don't really have much to add

01:07:16 ◼   ► to this apart from saying like sometimes

01:07:18 ◼   ► really dumb shit happens it's not your

01:07:20 ◼   ► fault and sometimes it is your fault and

01:07:22 ◼   ► sometimes dumb shit happens to matter

01:07:23 ◼   ► what like what what great what great

01:07:26 ◼   ► like audio-visual slide deck am I gonna

01:07:28 ◼   ► do to help explain to you that like no

01:07:31 ◼   ► matter how well you hide in the closet

01:07:32 ◼   ► it's not gonna stop a guy with a gun you

01:07:34 ◼   ► here's some advice well and and I guess

01:07:40 ◼   ► the other thing I'm realizing is because

01:07:42 ◼   ► I thought I was being wise parent by

01:07:47 ◼   ► kind of giving her a little bit of the

01:07:50 ◼   ► like well you know they're they're bad

01:07:54 ◼   ► people and and people honestly are

01:07:59 ◼   ► terrible to each other and we try to be

01:08:02 ◼   ► good to each other or some version of

01:08:05 ◼   ► that's not terrible it's not except that

01:08:08 ◼   ► that's all I just get the feeling hmm

01:08:14 ◼   ► that that is a not comforting and be

01:08:18 ◼   ► something that cannot really be

01:08:20 ◼   ► communicated through words yeah comes

01:08:25 ◼   ► from experience yeah yeah you learn it

01:08:28 ◼   ► there well that's the other thing that

01:08:29 ◼   ► we're I mean kind of as an elephant in

01:08:31 ◼   ► the room is that there are certain kinds

01:08:32 ◼   ► of advice or observations that are a

01:08:35 ◼   ► hundred percent pretty much empirically

01:08:37 ◼   ► true but they are at certain junctions

01:08:41 ◼   ► in one's life they are neither

01:08:43 ◼   ► comforting nor useful right even though

01:08:47 ◼   ► there

01:08:49 ◼   ► but like how am i what i guess my worry

01:08:54 ◼   ► is am i filling up the air between us

01:08:57 ◼   ► with words that mean little or nothing

01:09:01 ◼   ► to her oh yeah sometimes I just need to

01:09:04 ◼   ► pedal the bike yeah right that the words

01:09:07 ◼   ► that because this isn't something I've

01:09:09 ◼   ► kind of been confronting in my adult

01:09:11 ◼   ► relationships recently which is wait a

01:09:14 ◼   ► minute we talked a lot about this thing

01:09:20 ◼   ► let's say for instance that one of us

01:09:22 ◼   ► you or I at some point recently had a

01:09:24 ◼   ► millennium girlfriend huh

01:09:26 ◼   ► hypothetically we talked a lot about

01:09:30 ◼   ► things and at the end of talking a lot

01:09:34 ◼   ► about them it's unclear where we were on

01:09:38 ◼   ► those things but it was not a case that

01:09:41 ◼   ► we talked them through and they were

01:09:44 ◼   ► then solved you know there was always

01:09:46 ◼   ► some there's always another iteration

01:09:48 ◼   ► that's in and at a certain point you

01:09:51 ◼   ► don't want to succumb to a feeling that

01:09:54 ◼   ► no one can ever change because I don't

01:09:56 ◼   ► believe that and I know people say it

01:09:59 ◼   ► then it always sounds why's it always

01:10:01 ◼   ► like it always is

01:10:03 ◼   ► no one ever changes after they're 12

01:10:04 ◼   ► years old signed Martin Luther King

01:10:07 ◼   ► whatever you're like well I don't know

01:10:10 ◼   ► about that like that's not very hopeful

01:10:13 ◼   ► and I like to have a little bit of hope

01:10:16 ◼   ► but also as you have said many times

01:10:20 ◼   ► when was the last time you changed

01:10:23 ◼   ► because someone told you you were doing

01:10:24 ◼   ► it wrong yeah especially at high volume

01:10:27 ◼   ► right like when was the last time you

01:10:29 ◼   ► changed it somebody yelled at either you

01:10:30 ◼   ► word that you were doing it wrong and

01:10:31 ◼   ► it's absolutely true that's not how you

01:10:33 ◼   ► change either and so and people people

01:10:36 ◼   ► write me a lot because I'm publicly like

01:10:41 ◼   ► a recovering alcoholic and they say Here

01:10:44 ◼   ► I am I'm in at the front door of rehab

01:10:47 ◼   ► for the third time like do you have any

01:10:50 ◼   ► advice can you make can you help me make

01:10:52 ◼   ► this work and all I can ever say is like

01:10:54 ◼   ► you'll get sober when you're done and if

01:10:59 ◼   ► you're not done

01:11:00 ◼   ► you don't want it enough to make it

01:11:03 ◼   ► happen like you have to want it that

01:11:05 ◼   ► rehab doesn't matter your your wife or

01:11:08 ◼   ► your parents or your boyfriend being

01:11:11 ◼   ► really concerned about you doesn't

01:11:13 ◼   ► matter honestly your health doesn't

01:11:15 ◼   ► matter because if you don't want to stop

01:11:17 ◼   ► you'll just fucking keep doing it and

01:11:19 ◼   ► when you want to stop you'll know and

01:11:22 ◼   ► it's not like when you want to stop it

01:11:24 ◼   ► suddenly easy it's like when you want to

01:11:26 ◼   ► stop it will be fucking hard and

01:11:28 ◼   ► excruciating and you'll do it anyway and

01:11:30 ◼   ► that's true of change of any kind and so

01:11:35 ◼   ► in my I mean my unfolding feeling about

01:11:38 ◼   ► what my relationship with my job as a

01:11:41 ◼   ► dad is is like am I just trying to

01:11:47 ◼   ► comfort myself I know I totally I

01:11:50 ◼   ► totally know filling up the space with

01:11:53 ◼   ► all these words that mean less than

01:11:55 ◼   ► nothing to her

01:11:56 ◼   ► something something wisdom yeah right

01:11:58 ◼   ► something something you'll figure it out

01:12:00 ◼   ► something something everybody's life is

01:12:02 ◼   ► hard you know why not just pedal why not

01:12:07 ◼   ► just pedal your bike for what you're

01:12:09 ◼   ► what you're offering yeah

01:12:13 ◼   ► but in terms of your three days alone

01:12:16 ◼   ► yeah what about lunch she my wife made a

01:12:19 ◼   ► list

01:12:20 ◼   ► journalist for me show me each day what

01:12:22 ◼   ► I should make rage it's wonderful but

01:12:29 ◼   ► but I also feel like maybe you should

01:12:33 ◼   ► take that list down and look at should

01:12:37 ◼   ► go commando is free Tollett I think you

01:12:39 ◼   ► should just tear that list really slowly

01:12:40 ◼   ► right down the middle right in front of

01:12:42 ◼   ► your daughter

01:12:43 ◼   ► see what happens yeah you and Daddy for

01:12:46 ◼   ► the next three days we're gonna make

01:12:48 ◼   ► this we're gonna figure this out so I

01:12:49 ◼   ► call her into the room I call her into

01:12:51 ◼   ► the kitchen I look her dead in the eyes

01:12:52 ◼   ► I do the thing was look to hear mm-hmm

01:12:55 ◼   ► and then I without even taking my eyes

01:12:57 ◼   ► away from her I pull a fridge magnet

01:12:59 ◼   ► falls to the floor I hold up an index

01:13:01 ◼   ► card and I very slowly tear in half

01:13:06 ◼   ► here's the plan

01:13:09 ◼   ► we're all gonna die but you know I

01:13:15 ◼   ► really think that that part of her life

01:13:18 ◼   ► let's be honest part of her life is

01:13:20 ◼   ► going to be helping daddy I try to find

01:13:23 ◼   ► things this is now this is what a what a

01:13:25 ◼   ► weird sad limp noodle I am is like my

01:13:28 ◼   ► focus is on

01:13:30 ◼   ► okay so here's where's one a life hack

01:13:31 ◼   ► if you want a kid to load the dishwasher

01:13:33 ◼   ► start by saying maybe it's not a chore

01:13:35 ◼   ► maybe does it or whatever let's not

01:13:36 ◼   ► worry about what it is do me a favor Q

01:13:37 ◼   ► put the forks in the dishwasher for me

01:13:39 ◼   ► mm-hmm

01:13:40 ◼   ► you just need to pierce the veil get

01:13:42 ◼   ► that going right so I mean one thing is

01:13:44 ◼   ► that like what to you and me like for

01:13:46 ◼   ► example like using mash what if somebody

01:13:48 ◼   ► runs up to you they're going ah this

01:13:49 ◼   ► person is choking you got a got to use

01:13:51 ◼   ► your bic pen and give them a the thing

01:13:53 ◼   ► we bring you out of me

01:13:54 ◼   ► tracheotomy now I've seen that on TV

01:13:56 ◼   ► enough to know that with father monkeys

01:13:58 ◼   ► pen knife and a pen I should be able to

01:13:59 ◼   ► give somebody a tracheotomy I'm not

01:14:01 ◼   ► gonna do that nearly as well there's

01:14:03 ◼   ► gonna be hesitation marks as I'm cutting

01:14:05 ◼   ► open the students throat because a

01:14:07 ◼   ► doctor has done it more than me they've

01:14:09 ◼   ► had the training they know that they'll

01:14:11 ◼   ► survive the experience of having done

01:14:12 ◼   ► that but for a kid loading the

01:14:15 ◼   ► dishwasher is not that different from

01:14:16 ◼   ► doing a tracheotomy they don't know

01:14:17 ◼   ► what's supposed to happen next and

01:14:18 ◼   ► there's gonna be tons of blood they

01:14:19 ◼   ► don't want to do that so I feel like

01:14:21 ◼   ► doing it in steps and then second try to

01:14:23 ◼   ► find a way to let them be proud to make

01:14:26 ◼   ► make something that they can be proud of

01:14:28 ◼   ► that I think that can be part of the

01:14:31 ◼   ► stimulation it's not gonna work for

01:14:32 ◼   ► everything but like for certain kinds of

01:14:34 ◼   ► projects especially things that involve

01:14:35 ◼   ► cleaning up or arrangement like if you

01:14:38 ◼   ► can help with dinner maybe you can make

01:14:39 ◼   ► a crudite platter and make that really

01:14:40 ◼   ► pretty for us you know I'm saying but

01:14:42 ◼   ► sometimes so like you know hey can you

01:14:45 ◼   ► set the table and like will you make the

01:14:46 ◼   ► napkins fancy mmm just a thought but a

01:14:50 ◼   ► weight is something you know to have a

01:14:51 ◼   ► little hook into with that said oh I

01:14:54 ◼   ► don't know where I blew it or how many

01:14:55 ◼   ► times I blew it but everything that's

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01:16:38 ◼   ► use it for this program I use it from my

01:16:40 ◼   ► personal sites I use it for my ungainly

01:16:42 ◼   ► ex man meetup site it's just the best

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01:16:57 ◼   ► supporting Roddick on the line and all

01:16:59 ◼   ► the great shows I know like sweetie

01:17:25 ◼   ► you've got yogurt in your hair you're

01:17:32 ◼   ► teasing me what do you mean why do you

01:17:33 ◼   ► have to do everything clean the yogurt

01:17:35 ◼   ► out of your

01:17:35 ◼   ► Oh God oh my god I have to do everything

01:17:39 ◼   ► around here oh my god appreciated I'm

01:17:43 ◼   ► struggling so hard with that I want to

01:17:44 ◼   ► be appreciated I want somebody notice I

01:17:45 ◼   ► did the dishes four times today not a

01:17:47 ◼   ► very good job but I did do it four times

01:17:48 ◼   ► today yeah I just I feel like she she

01:17:52 ◼   ► has to know that I mean I'm not trying

01:17:55 ◼   ► to I'm not trying to have my daughter be

01:17:57 ◼   ► my assistant but I definitely do feel

01:18:01 ◼   ► like she understands now she came into

01:18:04 ◼   ► my room the other day with a piece of

01:18:05 ◼   ► artwork that she'd done woke me up

01:18:08 ◼   ► handed me this piece of artwork I liked

01:18:11 ◼   ► bleary-eyed

01:18:12 ◼   ► rub the sleep from my eyes look at it

01:18:14 ◼   ► it's a it's a picture of a doorway and

01:18:18 ◼   ► over the top of it in big letters it

01:18:21 ◼   ► says wake up okay so we both understand

01:18:29 ◼   ► that Daddy is needs a little extra sleep

01:18:31 ◼   ► yeah compared to other grown-ups that's

01:18:34 ◼   ► subtle

01:18:34 ◼   ► Danny was up late sweetie thinking very

01:18:37 ◼   ► deep thoughts about why no one will play

01:18:39 ◼   ► with him until 4:20 in the morning nice

01:18:47 ◼   ► but you know message received yeah I got

01:18:51 ◼   ► it this morning I got that this morning

01:18:52 ◼   ► you said she said I slept for an hour

01:18:54 ◼   ► last night I said really slept we slept

01:18:56 ◼   ► for an hour last night because at one

01:18:58 ◼   ► point I woke up and she wasn't been with

01:18:59 ◼   ► us cuz she couldn't sleep

01:19:00 ◼   ► she says I slept for an hour last night

01:19:01 ◼   ► I was at sucks an hour and she goes you

01:19:04 ◼   ► know why he starts doing this thing huh

01:19:06 ◼   ► with her eyes like looking over and kind

01:19:08 ◼   ► of doing her head like this huh like

01:19:10 ◼   ► she's indicating something and I go what

01:19:12 ◼   ► cheers you know what for some reason I

01:19:17 ◼   ► instantly knew and I said was I snoring

01:19:19 ◼   ► and she goes yeah wake up says the

01:19:25 ◼   ► doorway very subtle very subtle of

01:19:30 ◼   ► course the head huh huh and I come back

01:19:31 ◼   ► with oh yeah well you know I didn't

01:19:34 ◼   ► sleep very well last night cuz I try so

01:19:36 ◼   ► goddamn hard to sleep on my side so I

01:19:37 ◼   ► don't snore I don't know I'm snoring I

01:19:39 ◼   ► live in this world where like I only

01:19:42 ◼   ► fight I mean I it's like ambien walking

01:19:45 ◼   ► like I'm doing things I don't know that

01:19:46 ◼   ► I'm doing and I think I'm trying to help

01:19:48 ◼   ► apparently I'm not anyway not for a

01:19:50 ◼   ► fucking second do I believe she got only

01:19:52 ◼   ► an hour of sleep

01:19:53 ◼   ► no her sense of how much sleep she got

01:19:55 ◼   ► is very very problematic yeah well and

01:19:59 ◼   ► you know and whose responsibility it is

01:20:01 ◼   ► I mean the snoring like listen I'm with

01:20:07 ◼   ► the room I should I should get one of

01:20:08 ◼   ► those sleep things so I should go to a

01:20:10 ◼   ► clinic maybe get one of those masks we

01:20:11 ◼   ► have on MSNBC listen nothing is better

01:20:14 ◼   ► than a kpop mask or whatever the hell

01:20:19 ◼   ► those things forget a kpop that's

01:20:28 ◼   ► Gangnam style write it skate that

01:20:33 ◼   ► that'll do Pig I gotta make some fucking

01:20:36 ◼   ► lunches

01:20:36 ◼   ► lunches

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:04 ◼   ► hello hi John hello hello oh hello hello

00:00:10 ◼   ► hello hi John hi Marilyn how's it going

00:00:13 ◼   ► Oh so super hello hello good morning hey

00:00:18 ◼   ► good morning oh my god buddy I'm in a

00:00:22 ◼   ► state John tell me uh you don't want to

00:00:25 ◼   ► know do you want to know it I'm in a

00:00:27 ◼   ► state is what you sound like a frog in

00:00:30 ◼   ► my pot of water and slowly turning up

00:00:33 ◼   ► the heat how even will I know when to

00:00:35 ◼   ► jump out of this incorrect analogy I

00:00:38 ◼   ► don't even know it's it's heartbreaking

00:00:41 ◼   ► I need your advice

00:00:44 ◼   ► what's going on that's a big week how is

00:00:45 ◼   ► this week different from other weeks the

00:00:48 ◼   ► week that we leave a seat for Elijah

00:00:49 ◼   ► yeah ah Mazel Tov John this this is one

00:00:55 ◼   ► of those frantic weeks because it will

00:00:57 ◼   ► require some solo parenting from me oh

00:01:01 ◼   ► this is unusual and exciting yeah do you

00:01:05 ◼   ► feel like this is in your wheelhouse is

00:01:06 ◼   ► this something you can help me with oh

00:01:07 ◼   ► yeah absolutely you know my daughter's

00:01:10 ◼   ► mother left this morning at 4 a.m. for a

00:01:15 ◼   ► week-long business trip to your city San

00:01:19 ◼   ► Francisco finest girl wave to her from

00:01:23 ◼   ► my from my office here a top six your

00:01:25 ◼   ► Tower yeah yeah from your premiere seven

00:01:28 ◼   ► sided lighthouse made of frames

00:01:38 ◼   ► Margiela Marge Ellen Marge ellos March

00:01:41 ◼   ► Ellen she's got my chemtrails she and I

00:01:46 ◼   ► are gonna have a very very fine week but

00:01:49 ◼   ► you know I I do have I do have my mother

00:01:53 ◼   ► in town so she also is very helpful it's

00:01:57 ◼   ► not it's very seldom that I am in a

00:02:00 ◼   ► situation where I'm looking at five days

00:02:02 ◼   ► where there's just no no respite five

00:02:06 ◼   ► days but I often am the only parent of

00:02:11 ◼   ► record for for four or five days oh

00:02:13 ◼   ► listen I don't wanna make this the whole

00:02:14 ◼   ► show but I could use like I need some

00:02:17 ◼   ► advice I need to vent that's the wrong

00:02:19 ◼   ► word no no not bad you know what it is

00:02:21 ◼   ► it's an airing of failures I feel like

00:02:23 ◼   ► it's important you need to periodically

00:02:25 ◼   ► air my failures and let's be honest to

00:02:28 ◼   ► show my vulnerabilities about something

00:02:30 ◼   ► that I would like to think I'm good at

00:02:31 ◼   ► and I'm not sure I'm really that good at

00:02:33 ◼   ► let's just look at this as like a Lower

00:02:36 ◼   ► East Side Tenement alleyway and you're

00:02:39 ◼   ► just putting that wet laundry out on a

00:02:41 ◼   ► on a rope high above high above the sea

00:02:44 ◼   ► good morning this is spaghetti right

00:02:46 ◼   ► we're all your neighbors can see your

00:02:49 ◼   ► drawers they call them pants in England

00:02:52 ◼   ► yeah because because that's the only way

00:02:56 ◼   ► we have we don't have a washer and dryer

00:02:58 ◼   ► we're done we're not the future yet and

00:03:01 ◼   ► I'm not a snork no okay so without

00:03:06 ◼   ► getting into too much detail milady

00:03:07 ◼   ► needs to do some business travel that

00:03:10 ◼   ► will necessitate me being the the sole

00:03:14 ◼   ► parent for three nights she is an

00:03:18 ◼   ► important lady and she has stuff to do

00:03:20 ◼   ► up she's a business lady she has to do

00:03:22 ◼   ► and but here's the funny part is like I

00:03:25 ◼   ► well first of all there's just this

00:03:26 ◼   ► whole like when I was talking to you

00:03:27 ◼   ► this morning about like potentially

00:03:29 ◼   ► rescheduling because I'm at a fever

00:03:31 ◼   ► pitch because there's the things you got

00:03:33 ◼   ► to do before you do the things you're

00:03:35 ◼   ► gonna do yeah sure you experienced

00:03:38 ◼   ► something that I call compression mm-hm

00:03:40 ◼   ► you get compression suddenly events take

00:03:43 ◼   ► on a new kind of valence because they

00:03:45 ◼   ► need to be done by a certain time your

00:03:47 ◼   ► life becomes an existential rally

00:03:50 ◼   ► for other people this is not hard I

00:03:51 ◼   ► think other people are wired better than

00:03:53 ◼   ► I but I will have my daughter by myself

00:03:58 ◼   ► for three nights and that's going to

00:04:00 ◼   ► mean some get into school and some

00:04:02 ◼   ► picking up it involves making lunch yeah

00:04:05 ◼   ► which is is fraught the thing I

00:04:10 ◼   ► eventually want to get to you though is

00:04:11 ◼   ► I know you're not a big screen parent I

00:04:13 ◼   ► want to know how you handle the time the

00:04:16 ◼   ► long long times yeah you're with the

00:04:19 ◼   ► trial because this is not a tenement in

00:04:21 ◼   ► Brooklyn you can't just send your kid

00:04:22 ◼   ► off to play play stickball you know you

00:04:25 ◼   ► got a helicopter over them any advice

00:04:27 ◼   ► you got i'll get any observations you

00:04:29 ◼   ► have philosophical practical anything

00:04:32 ◼   ► that you can offer that will help me and

00:04:34 ◼   ► let's be honest my daughter survived

00:04:35 ◼   ► three days you know if there if there

00:04:38 ◼   ► were ever a case where I prepared a

00:04:40 ◼   ► topic in advance or had even the

00:04:42 ◼   ► slightest idea what we were going to

00:04:44 ◼   ► talk about in the three and a half

00:04:46 ◼   ► minutes between when I wake up and when

00:04:47 ◼   ► I sit down here compression is what I

00:04:51 ◼   ► you know is what I would have talked

00:04:53 ◼   ► about today because I'm also feeling

00:04:55 ◼   ► like every spare minute is filled now

00:04:59 ◼   ► with something filled with some creamy

00:05:02 ◼   ► like vanilla pudding mmm

00:05:06 ◼   ► it's not bad it's just full mostly

00:05:09 ◼   ► somebody sprayed that in all the

00:05:10 ◼   ► available area is putting now mm-hmm

00:05:12 ◼   ► just but full of vanilla pudding I mean

00:05:14 ◼   ► like a vanilla pudding but you are in a

00:05:16 ◼   ► situation of that so you know because

00:05:20 ◼   ► because you hit the nail on the head

00:05:22 ◼   ► already

00:05:22 ◼   ► yeah being a parent is just to feel like

00:05:26 ◼   ► you're failing that and all the time

00:05:28 ◼   ► that's how I used to think that that

00:05:30 ◼   ► would go away before I was actually go

00:05:36 ◼   ► away yeah like for at least not for me I

00:05:40 ◼   ► keep thinking it's gonna go away too but

00:05:41 ◼   ► you know I read every day it's a new

00:05:43 ◼   ► thing where it's like oh boy I didn't do

00:05:45 ◼   ► a pretty good job and I'm constantly

00:05:47 ◼   ► realizing I'm too late on things you

00:05:51 ◼   ► know whether that's something like I

00:05:52 ◼   ► should have ordered turkey breasts for

00:05:54 ◼   ► sandwiches tomorrow so guess what I

00:05:55 ◼   ► forgot there's a field trip on Wednesday

00:05:57 ◼   ► morning and it has to be a packable

00:05:58 ◼   ► lunch with nothing nothing plastic

00:06:00 ◼   ► interests

00:06:01 ◼   ► I am playing a horrible Milton Bradley

00:06:05 ◼   ► board game of many other people's design

00:06:07 ◼   ► at this point you gotta practice the

00:06:09 ◼   ► ukulele you got it oh by the way they're

00:06:11 ◼   ► getting extra homework now because it's

00:06:13 ◼   ► fifth grade next year which is a real

00:06:14 ◼   ► grade so now they're getting more

00:06:16 ◼   ► homework they doubled the math it

00:06:17 ◼   ► doubled the reading log you still got to

00:06:19 ◼   ► do all of that I love how they do that

00:06:21 ◼   ► where they're like next year is real

00:06:24 ◼   ► school so we're gonna pile on a bunch of

00:06:26 ◼   ► like real school stuff now I was a

00:06:29 ◼   ► senior in order to get you ready for

00:06:32 ◼   ► next year and it's like well you're just

00:06:34 ◼   ► what are we doing before yeah we're just

00:06:39 ◼   ► doing it now then instead of been oh

00:06:41 ◼   ► yeah we got to do it now instead of you

00:06:43 ◼   ► know like I told you didn't I that I got

00:06:46 ◼   ► that I got um I got a failing grade in

00:06:51 ◼   ► seventh grade advanced English because

00:06:56 ◼   ► the teacher said in high school they

00:06:59 ◼   ► don't use pencils I hate the story I

00:07:01 ◼   ► hate the story so much in high school

00:07:03 ◼   ► they don't use pencils so we have to

00:07:04 ◼   ► start using using pens we have to start

00:07:06 ◼   ► learning to use pens and I I just never

00:07:10 ◼   ► had a pen I mean that you know that they

00:07:13 ◼   ► would buy me pens but I was lose them I

00:07:15 ◼   ► had all I had was pencils I just I

00:07:17 ◼   ► wanted to work in pencil it was fine and

00:07:19 ◼   ► the teacher said that she would no

00:07:22 ◼   ► longer accept anything written in pencil

00:07:26 ◼   ► his daddy blue or blue black blue black

00:07:28 ◼   ► ink

00:07:28 ◼   ► it's alright slept it would be an

00:07:30 ◼   ► automatic zero and so I continued to do

00:07:34 ◼   ► my work through the entire year page

00:07:37 ◼   ► after page of English assignment which

00:07:39 ◼   ► she continued to mark zero Todd because

00:07:44 ◼   ► she was preparing me for high school

00:07:47 ◼   ► isn't that nice the way she did that

00:07:48 ◼   ► yeah she sure did yeah another angle of

00:07:51 ◼   ► I'm going to interrupt you but the other

00:07:52 ◼   ► angle of this is like all the secret

00:07:54 ◼   ► double double probation rules we're like

00:07:56 ◼   ► you know there's I don't know if you get

00:07:57 ◼   ► this yet with her work but there's a lot

00:07:59 ◼   ► of assignments we get we're in addition

00:08:01 ◼   ► to not understanding the way that

00:08:02 ◼   ► they're teaching math now that's okay I

00:08:04 ◼   ► know it's a better way I'm learning but

00:08:05 ◼   ► in addition to that there's like it's

00:08:07 ◼   ► sometimes difficult to tell

00:08:08 ◼   ► to quote Glengarry Glen Ross you know

00:08:11 ◼   ► what is this in-service of it

00:08:14 ◼   ► if are we testing handwriting are we

00:08:16 ◼   ► testing creativity are we testing

00:08:18 ◼   ► following the directions because I would

00:08:21 ◼   ► counsel to do all these things real

00:08:22 ◼   ► differently but it's real weird when it

00:08:24 ◼   ► comes down to like well kind of doesn't

00:08:26 ◼   ► matter what you did if you didn't use

00:08:27 ◼   ► ink like I guess yeah that's that's a

00:08:29 ◼   ► rule yeah what are we what are we

00:08:32 ◼   ► teaching oh we're teaching we're

00:08:35 ◼   ► teaching this child not to believe that

00:08:38 ◼   ► adult them have any knowledge yeah I

00:08:41 ◼   ► think we don't really have perspective

00:08:44 ◼   ► or understanding context they understand

00:08:46 ◼   ► could the creation of compliance now is

00:08:50 ◼   ► they're not hot lunch at your school yes

00:08:53 ◼   ► there is but we're also well she's got

00:08:58 ◼   ► compression to their entire lunch period

00:09:00 ◼   ► is 20 minutes yeah yeah yeah so it's

00:09:05 ◼   ► already staggered to where like I think

00:09:08 ◼   ► two grades at a time the kids go to

00:09:09 ◼   ► lunch the littlest kids go first then

00:09:12 ◼   ► the next group and then my daughter is

00:09:13 ◼   ► in the third group and she that was the

00:09:15 ◼   ► most the groups have 25 minutes she's

00:09:18 ◼   ► got 20 minutes and so like if you go

00:09:19 ◼   ► through the lines is boring

00:09:21 ◼   ► but if you go through the line

00:09:21 ◼   ► everything that really cuts into your

00:09:23 ◼   ► your eating time your shuck and jive

00:09:25 ◼   ► time you know this sounds like a like a

00:09:27 ◼   ► proven problem well it's it's you know

00:09:31 ◼   ► again I understand that we're all

00:09:32 ◼   ► playing a different tile game a

00:09:36 ◼   ► different puzzle game you know this is

00:09:38 ◼   ► what makes adulthood complicated is

00:09:40 ◼   ► everybody has a different puzzle game

00:09:42 ◼   ► and that's not doesn't imperfect analogy

00:09:45 ◼   ► but there's not a single person out

00:09:46 ◼   ► there it's like a five by five

00:09:48 ◼   ► everything's going great

00:09:49 ◼   ► like everybody out there struggling with

00:09:50 ◼   ► something there's resource constraints

00:09:53 ◼   ► at the school like okay so what's lunch

00:09:56 ◼   ► well lunch is partly like who's gonna

00:09:57 ◼   ► supervise them because lawsuits and like

00:09:59 ◼   ► time constraints and all that stuff so I

00:10:01 ◼   ► think that she prefers the packed lunch

00:10:03 ◼   ► with which my wonderful wonderful wife

00:10:06 ◼   ► makes for her most most mornings right

00:10:09 ◼   ► she makes a nice little meal in a little

00:10:12 ◼   ► bento box and there's that a mommy or

00:10:14 ◼   ► there's raspberries or there's carrots

00:10:16 ◼   ► and like she has this internal barometer

00:10:18 ◼   ► for how to make like a dignified lunch

00:10:21 ◼   ► but I feel like what you know like you

00:10:24 ◼   ► were saying before a lot of a lot of a

00:10:26 ◼   ► lot of what you

00:10:27 ◼   ► trying to deal with now is like what

00:10:29 ◼   ► kind of groundwork have you laid and my

00:10:32 ◼   ► sensei like I don't I do not have a like

00:10:36 ◼   ► a complete picture of of the inner life

00:10:40 ◼   ► of the of the of your your family and

00:10:43 ◼   ► your home there but my sense is that you

00:10:45 ◼   ► do not like to disappoint your wife and

00:10:49 ◼   ► daughter

00:10:49 ◼   ► and so she's accustomed to this kind of

00:10:53 ◼   ► lunch and you want to you want to

00:10:57 ◼   ► maintain that right insistency whereas

00:11:00 ◼   ► in my family I laid the groundwork that

00:11:02 ◼   ► right at the beginning that I was going

00:11:05 ◼   ► to consistently disappoint everyone you

00:11:08 ◼   ► set an expectation I set an expectation

00:11:10 ◼   ► that that Daddy is going to daddy

00:11:14 ◼   ► disappoints sometimes daddy shows up to

00:11:17 ◼   ► school in his pajamas sometimes daddy's

00:11:20 ◼   ► missing a two thought photo days just

00:11:25 ◼   ► raising like do you take them out of the

00:11:30 ◼   ► box is just a raisin that says am on it

00:11:32 ◼   ► no it's like six little box raises this

00:11:38 ◼   ► episode of Roderick on the line is

00:11:39 ◼   ► brought to you in part by Casper you

00:11:41 ◼   ► learn more about Casper right now by

00:11:43 ◼   ► visiting Casper comm slash supertrain

00:11:46 ◼   ► Casper is the company that is focused on

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00:11:50 ◼   ► you exceptionally comfortable one night

00:11:52 ◼   ► at a time he's been one thirty or life

00:11:54 ◼   ► sleeping if you spend a third your life

00:11:55 ◼   ► doing anything you know you wanna make

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00:11:59 ◼   ► and that my friends is why you need a

00:12:01 ◼   ► Casper Casper mattresses are perfectly

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00:13:34 ◼   ► Khan the line and all the great shows

00:13:38 ◼   ► and sometimes sometimes you today why

00:13:46 ◼   ► don't you get hot lunch and if if her

00:13:49 ◼   ► response is daddy says like well I

00:13:54 ◼   ► didn't like the irony Wars of the 90s

00:13:56 ◼   ► but I lived through them right right I

00:13:59 ◼   ► figure my frequent responses like she'll

00:14:02 ◼   ► say like oh I have a pack lunch with the

00:14:06 ◼   ► bespoke turkey sandwich and my response

00:14:07 ◼   ► is usually yeah well I want to be tall

00:14:12 ◼   ► yes so you have to just answer your

00:14:16 ◼   ► question though yes not only do I want

00:14:19 ◼   ► to meet skits somewhere near the bar of

00:14:21 ◼   ► what my desperately competent wife is

00:14:23 ◼   ► able to do but like I'd like it to also

00:14:26 ◼   ► be I'd like it to be fun and then worst

00:14:29 ◼   ► of all I wanted to not be stressful

00:14:30 ◼   ► which is one of the hardest parts for me

00:14:33 ◼   ► is I really try to minimize unnecessary

00:14:36 ◼   ► stress because there's baseline stress

00:14:38 ◼   ► just cuz you got to do hair and socks

00:14:39 ◼   ► and everything and tooth brushing to get

00:14:41 ◼   ► out of the house but like that's the

00:14:43 ◼   ► other part of it so I feel like I've

00:14:44 ◼   ► probably set an unreasonable bar for

00:14:46 ◼   ► myself and that's that causes the more

00:14:47 ◼   ► of this anxiety in me yeah yeah I mean

00:14:50 ◼   ► the thing is a she's fine and B

00:14:53 ◼   ► she'll I mean she'll be fine whatever

00:14:55 ◼   ► however the week goes yeah kids bounce

00:14:57 ◼   ► but also like I you know she is a little

00:15:01 ◼   ► girl who likes an adventure and a plan

00:15:04 ◼   ► you know like a like a you know she's

00:15:08 ◼   ► she's into I mean you know none of them

00:15:12 ◼   ► like adventure and in that if you're

00:15:14 ◼   ► like let's try something new they don't

00:15:16 ◼   ► want to right but but I think if you go

00:15:22 ◼   ► to her and say mom is out of town we

00:15:26 ◼   ► need to really partner up on this and

00:15:28 ◼   ► that's gonna involve you helping daddy

00:15:31 ◼   ► as much as it is daddy helping you

00:15:34 ◼   ► interesting

00:15:35 ◼   ► ah so we make it some something we need

00:15:37 ◼   ► to work on together well and yeah it's

00:15:39 ◼   ► like a project and also you're relying

00:15:41 ◼   ► on her she's your partner she's your

00:15:44 ◼   ► main partner in this and so you know

00:15:47 ◼   ► like you raise your eyes it's it's like

00:15:50 ◼   ► I'm noticing with my little girl that

00:15:53 ◼   ► all the things that I made the mistake

00:15:55 ◼   ► of calling chores like clean up your

00:15:58 ◼   ► room and you know chores I already at 7

00:16:02 ◼   ► years old just get these huge eye rolls

00:16:05 ◼   ► and these long sighs and then I go in an

00:16:09 ◼   ► hour later and she's sitting in the

00:16:10 ◼   ► middle sitting uh you know cross-leg on

00:16:12 ◼   ► the floor in the middle of her mess just

00:16:16 ◼   ► sort of reading an Archie mm-hmm I'm

00:16:18 ◼   ► like where did you even get an Archie

00:16:19 ◼   ► because because somehow you perhaps

00:16:22 ◼   ► unintentionally set that up as a

00:16:24 ◼   ► negative thing it's a chore just had

00:16:27 ◼   ► it's just like the name right there in

00:16:28 ◼   ► the name but I've lately started to say

00:16:31 ◼   ► I started to say those things like well

00:16:37 ◼   ► not long ago like I was cooking her mom

00:16:39 ◼   ► was been there you know chopping and

00:16:41 ◼   ► stuff and she's standing in the doorway

00:16:44 ◼   ► just kind of watching and I said hey set

00:16:48 ◼   ► the table and she got this look of like

00:16:52 ◼   ► uh Wow and I said well you know look

00:16:57 ◼   ► what a table looks like when it's set

00:16:59 ◼   ► and you know what it looks like now so

00:17:02 ◼   ► to put all the things on the table that

00:17:05 ◼   ► aren't on it now

00:17:06 ◼   ► and she was like ah and she walked

00:17:10 ◼   ► around the kitchen kind of just like

00:17:12 ◼   ► right like she'd never seen the kitchen

00:17:14 ◼   ► before yeah

00:17:14 ◼   ► opening drawers and wondering like what

00:17:17 ◼   ► you know like she said at one point like

00:17:19 ◼   ► like you mean like drinking glasses and

00:17:23 ◼   ► I was like well asked and answered

00:17:26 ◼   ► and you know I'm cooking like I don't

00:17:28 ◼   ► have a like stuffs burnin and stuff well

00:17:31 ◼   ► so she went over and she put some

00:17:34 ◼   ► combination of things on the table that

00:17:36 ◼   ► basically that were the things that she

00:17:38 ◼   ► could reach and the things that she

00:17:40 ◼   ► thought of like there were three pepper

00:17:42 ◼   ► shakers or whatever she was going around

00:17:44 ◼   ► and but she got some she managed to put

00:17:48 ◼   ► some table settings and you know what

00:17:53 ◼   ► kind of with me over my shoulder like

00:17:55 ◼   ► everybody needs a spoon not just you and

00:17:59 ◼   ► [Laughter]

00:18:01 ◼   ► and she was just like and it wasn't even

00:18:04 ◼   ► a case of like she was proud because I

00:18:07 ◼   ► didn't I didn't really over praise I

00:18:10 ◼   ► just was like good alright good

00:18:13 ◼   ► yeah now we need napkins and because I

00:18:16 ◼   ► was also doing something and her mom was

00:18:18 ◼   ► also doing something so when we all came

00:18:19 ◼   ► together it felt like well we all did

00:18:22 ◼   ► something to be here and not it wasn't a

00:18:25 ◼   ► thing like kind of we normally do where

00:18:27 ◼   ► I turn the praise Canon on her and like

00:18:30 ◼   ► oh my god you didn't end up fucking

00:18:33 ◼   ► putting chocolate on everything like

00:18:35 ◼   ► you're a genius

00:18:37 ◼   ► it was just like all right so the other

00:18:40 ◼   ► day it's like almost like a first round

00:18:42 ◼   ► of AI like you're like oh you got it

00:18:45 ◼   ► kind of right that's not totally wrong

00:18:50 ◼   ► but the other day I'm in the kitchen and

00:18:53 ◼   ► and the dishwasher beeps and she says

00:18:59 ◼   ► what do you do you know like it's done

00:19:01 ◼   ► washing and she's like well what what oh

00:19:05 ◼   ► you know what was that what happens now

00:19:07 ◼   ► and I said I opened the dishwasher and

00:19:09 ◼   ► you know emptying the dishwasher is

00:19:11 ◼   ► super complicated but I was like here

00:19:13 ◼   ► put the silverware away and so she takes

00:19:16 ◼   ► a little silverware basket out and just

00:19:18 ◼   ► you

00:19:20 ◼   ► kind of every single every single

00:19:24 ◼   ► implement was a new puzzle right okay

00:19:27 ◼   ► forks go here but where does this fork

00:19:29 ◼   ► go well that also goes there oh I see

00:19:34 ◼   ► this all the time my daughter can make a

00:19:36 ◼   ► multi acre Palace in Minecraft but she

00:19:39 ◼   ► still doesn't understand that that one's

00:19:40 ◼   ► compost it's it's it's it's you know

00:19:43 ◼   ► what I mean the pseudo some areas where

00:19:45 ◼   ► like there's the encode so well with

00:19:47 ◼   ► certain things that they are motivated

00:19:49 ◼   ► about but there's other kinds of things

00:19:52 ◼   ► where you're like honey I are you okay

00:19:54 ◼   ► did you hit your head you hurt your head

00:19:57 ◼   ► you know we always have Forks you know

00:19:59 ◼   ► you got to put socks on every day what

00:20:01 ◼   ► what well what was crazy was because I

00:20:05 ◼   ► again I was not monitoring her not not

00:20:07 ◼   ► that she could tell right I was looking

00:20:10 ◼   ► at her out of the corner of my eye but I

00:20:11 ◼   ► was not like helping because I was

00:20:14 ◼   ► emptying the other part of the

00:20:16 ◼   ► dishwasher the stuff that she couldn't

00:20:18 ◼   ► reach like that complicated heavy shelf

00:20:22 ◼   ► just she can't get up she can't get

00:20:24 ◼   ► something up on it on a high shelf you

00:20:26 ◼   ► know but so she's just puttering away at

00:20:28 ◼   ► her own time trying to figure out like

00:20:30 ◼   ► you know and she'd hold stuff up like

00:20:32 ◼   ► where does this go and I'm like ah right

00:20:34 ◼   ► that goes over here and and so at the

00:20:39 ◼   ► end when the dishwasher was empty she

00:20:42 ◼   ► said now can we load it and I was like

00:20:49 ◼   ► now can we load it I have never once in

00:20:52 ◼   ► my life loaded a dishwasher immediately

00:20:54 ◼   ► after emptying that's right sure we can

00:20:57 ◼   ► load it and she started putting the

00:21:00 ◼   ► silverware in the dirty silverware in

00:21:02 ◼   ► the baskets in the basket and a stiix by

00:21:06 ◼   ► type all the forks go here oh I like

00:21:09 ◼   ► that

00:21:09 ◼   ► I like that fine all the knives well

00:21:12 ◼   ► that's not how I do it and she was not

00:21:14 ◼   ► coached to do this like the forks to be

00:21:23 ◼   ► in the bass stick together they do this

00:21:27 ◼   ► was like one of those like you're

00:21:30 ◼   ► broadcasting of a thing you know

00:21:33 ◼   ► like that I had never seen before I see

00:21:35 ◼   ► her organize things all the time but

00:21:37 ◼   ► like oh all the forks go together do

00:21:39 ◼   ► they because she had just unloaded the

00:21:42 ◼   ► dishwasher three minutes before that was

00:21:44 ◼   ► not organized that way so she was taking

00:21:48 ◼   ► it she was taking over how it's gonna

00:21:50 ◼   ► get done

00:21:51 ◼   ► Wow and this is a long conversation

00:21:55 ◼   ► slash argument within the Jonathan

00:21:58 ◼   ► Coulton Christine Connor family oh

00:22:00 ◼   ► really

00:22:00 ◼   ► Christine believes that that's how the

00:22:03 ◼   ► dishes should be done all the forks go

00:22:05 ◼   ► together and all the spoons go together

00:22:08 ◼   ► Jonathan argues that the spoons then all

00:22:16 ◼   ► nest against one another and don't get

00:22:18 ◼   ► clean and bases like to not OCD is too

00:22:20 ◼   ► strong a term but like it's two

00:22:21 ◼   ► different a wackadoo theories about like

00:22:24 ◼   ► why needs to be a certain way yeah and

00:22:26 ◼   ► you know I've been friends with that

00:22:27 ◼   ► family for a long time and you would be

00:22:29 ◼   ► surprised the number of times that this

00:22:31 ◼   ► comes up sitting around though sitting

00:22:33 ◼   ► around the table or I would not in the

00:22:36 ◼   ► morning I would not there are a variety

00:22:38 ◼   ► of things that I still find incredibly

00:22:40 ◼   ► perplexing from a logical standpoint

00:22:42 ◼   ► that I don't bring up in the interest of

00:22:44 ◼   ► sanity and peace

00:22:46 ◼   ► yeah it's it's really it's hilarious and

00:22:48 ◼   ► I know I know I'm just as guilty I know

00:22:50 ◼   ► there are things that I do that make no

00:22:51 ◼   ► sense to anybody else in the house

00:22:53 ◼   ► either seems too tightly wound or way

00:22:55 ◼   ► too chaotic or just like unknowable like

00:22:58 ◼   ► why would you not always do that thing

00:23:00 ◼   ► after you do this thing it just follows

00:23:02 ◼   ► logically

00:23:04 ◼   ► well in this case I sent a text to

00:23:09 ◼   ► Jonathan Christine saying oh guess what

00:23:12 ◼   ► guess who's on Team Christine and

00:23:17 ◼   ► immediately it precipitated a text

00:23:20 ◼   ► argument between husband and wife I

00:23:23 ◼   ► don't even I don't know they could be

00:23:24 ◼   ► sitting on the couch together I don't

00:23:25 ◼   ► know whether they were in separate towns

00:23:27 ◼   ► or whatever but you know Christine said

00:23:29 ◼   ► she's a genius it's the only right way

00:23:32 ◼   ► to do it

00:23:32 ◼   ► and Jonathan immediately texted this is

00:23:35 ◼   ► you know this is she is wrong she's

00:23:37 ◼   ► history's greatest monster she's wrong

00:23:40 ◼   ► as everyone who practices this

00:23:42 ◼   ► abomination is wrong

00:23:44 ◼   ► the nesting thing that's an interesting

00:23:45 ◼   ► POV well you know he's kind of

00:23:47 ◼   ► interesting POV on things they're gonna

00:23:49 ◼   ► nest the spoons are gonna nest this is

00:23:52 ◼   ► also the way I say again OCD I know

00:23:55 ◼   ► that's a specific kind of thing but like

00:23:56 ◼   ► there are some kinds of people that say

00:23:58 ◼   ► oh that person so tightly wound their

00:23:59 ◼   ► anal because they need everything to be

00:24:02 ◼   ► like in a row

00:24:03 ◼   ► and there's other people who have a

00:24:05 ◼   ► different flavor of that where they

00:24:06 ◼   ► can't stand stuff being in a row right

00:24:08 ◼   ► there's some kind of people that want

00:24:09 ◼   ► everything to be even numbers and so

00:24:11 ◼   ► many people who are it has to be odd

00:24:13 ◼   ► numbers and and it feels like an

00:24:15 ◼   ► opposite when it's really like a very

00:24:16 ◼   ► similar thing well you know in my

00:24:19 ◼   ► kitchen there are no matching plates

00:24:21 ◼   ► cups or glasses every plate has to be a

00:24:25 ◼   ► has to be a different plate that's

00:24:27 ◼   ► eclectic well it's just I like in my

00:24:31 ◼   ► mom's house everything had to match and

00:24:34 ◼   ► I cannot have everything match and I'm

00:24:38 ◼   ► guessing an equal number like you have

00:24:40 ◼   ► this there's this mini salad forks

00:24:42 ◼   ► there's this mini small plates that kind

00:24:43 ◼   ► of thing all done just exact all done

00:24:46 ◼   ► just like perfectly and I think if if

00:24:49 ◼   ► you broke a small plate then the whole

00:24:52 ◼   ► set of plates would go and a new set of

00:24:55 ◼   ► plates would arrived whoa

00:24:57 ◼   ► because like you know you don't want you

00:25:00 ◼   ► don't want four of everything in three

00:25:02 ◼   ► years the world in our own ways but my

00:25:04 ◼   ► house is all every everything is is

00:25:08 ◼   ► individual and partly it's that I like

00:25:10 ◼   ► going to thrift stores and finding

00:25:11 ◼   ► things and I find a thing and I'm like

00:25:13 ◼   ► here's a new one and I would but but

00:25:15 ◼   ► like now the idea of having even I mean

00:25:20 ◼   ► two plates matching would be even worse

00:25:23 ◼   ► than all plates matching I totally get

00:25:26 ◼   ► that

00:25:26 ◼   ► just now you look careless you just look

00:25:28 ◼   ► like where'd you get Oh two-ply using a

00:25:30 ◼   ► rube you look like an eccentric Pig a

00:25:35 ◼   ► rube but but you know the argument about

00:25:40 ◼   ► the silverware both because again

00:25:42 ◼   ► believe me I've heard it a hundred times

00:25:44 ◼   ► it Chrystia we're gonna call this team

00:25:47 ◼   ► steaming team Jonathan yeah Christine

00:25:49 ◼   ► says it makes it easier at when when the

00:25:53 ◼   ► dishes are done to just reach in grab

00:25:54 ◼   ► them all and put them away

00:25:56 ◼   ► it makes it easier jonathan counters by

00:26:01 ◼   ► saying you gotta sort them at one point

00:26:04 ◼   ► either before or after so it's not any

00:26:08 ◼   ► easier you're just you're just doing the

00:26:10 ◼   ► hard work one at a time when you put

00:26:12 ◼   ► them in sorting them into their proper

00:26:15 ◼   ► bastok instead of just throwing them in

00:26:18 ◼   ► there and saving precious seconds so

00:26:22 ◼   ► it's like it's like two waves of just

00:26:26 ◼   ► like a view of the world and of time and

00:26:30 ◼   ► now my own daughter has just

00:26:34 ◼   ► instinctively exhibited a preference

00:26:38 ◼   ► here and I cannot intervene because this

00:26:41 ◼   ► is what my mom did to me I would she

00:26:44 ◼   ► would say help me load the dishwasher I

00:26:46 ◼   ► would do it some way let's say I would

00:26:48 ◼   ► do it team Christine style and then she

00:26:51 ◼   ► would come along go oh but here's how we

00:26:54 ◼   ► do it and she would then redo it team

00:26:58 ◼   ► Jonathan or whatever it would be the

00:27:00 ◼   ► opposite whatever you did you did it

00:27:01 ◼   ► wrong and so I can't do I cannot

00:27:04 ◼   ► intervene in my own child's world in

00:27:07 ◼   ► this way she's putting the silverware in

00:27:09 ◼   ► and there's no way I'm gonna at that

00:27:12 ◼   ► point say oh but nesting I thought I try

00:27:16 ◼   ► to catch myself because at least she's

00:27:17 ◼   ► doing it yeah oh yeah is that too much

00:27:20 ◼   ► praise cannon because because I think I

00:27:22 ◼   ► agree I'd rather see her do it in a kind

00:27:25 ◼   ► of half-assed searching sort of way than

00:27:27 ◼   ► like not at all absolutely and I would

00:27:30 ◼   ► I'll live with some spoons that are

00:27:31 ◼   ► slightly tarnished if it means that she

00:27:34 ◼   ► thinks that that loading the dishwasher

00:27:36 ◼   ► is one of the it's not a chore it's just

00:27:39 ◼   ► one of the things that she does as part

00:27:41 ◼   ► of our group effort like our tribe right

00:27:46 ◼   ► because she starts she wants some tribal

00:27:49 ◼   ► responsibilities and I think part of it

00:27:51 ◼   ► was several weeks ago my mom and her mom

00:27:57 ◼   ► were complaining about her that she was

00:28:00 ◼   ► being intransigent she was just fighting

00:28:04 ◼   ► everything yep and passive fighting a

00:28:08 ◼   ► lot of it is

00:28:10 ◼   ► active fighting and some of it is just

00:28:12 ◼   ► like okay get your shoes on okay and

00:28:15 ◼   ► then she says I say slow walking it slow

00:28:18 ◼   ► walking that's right and so there so of

00:28:22 ◼   ► course in the in my family dynamic all

00:28:25 ◼   ► the grown-ups come to me and are like

00:28:27 ◼   ► this has got to stop I'm not seven

00:28:33 ◼   ► they're like well fix it

00:28:36 ◼   ► and so we sat down and had a had a we

00:28:41 ◼   ► were to the to the gas station mini-mart

00:28:44 ◼   ► that sells Fried Chicken mm-hmm and I

00:28:47 ◼   ► was like what's going on and she did all

00:28:50 ◼   ► the little kid you know like try to

00:28:52 ◼   ► weasel out of the conversation moves

00:28:54 ◼   ► like man nothing or she even went as far

00:28:59 ◼   ► as to say I don't want to talk about it

00:29:00 ◼   ► really she didn't open with her what are

00:29:02 ◼   ► you talking about what huh and then she

00:29:09 ◼   ► did some of that like you know like look

00:29:11 ◼   ► over here it's a bikini girl I'm like no

00:29:15 ◼   ► I know all of these sweetie we're gonna

00:29:17 ◼   ► have to talk about this and she was like

00:29:18 ◼   ► ah and then she did thing I didn't

00:29:21 ◼   ► expect which was she said well you know

00:29:24 ◼   ► ever since I turned 7 everything's so

00:29:26 ◼   ► hard oh I was like what's hard like

00:29:30 ◼   ► everything's hard and she was like yeah

00:29:32 ◼   ► I mean at school like I don't have any

00:29:35 ◼   ► friends and she's like really like laid

00:29:38 ◼   ► out this whole inner life I'm so

00:29:43 ◼   ► impressed that I recognized as being

00:29:47 ◼   ► like a 7 year old who has who's having a

00:29:51 ◼   ► complicated emotional experience of

00:29:53 ◼   ► things and doesn't want to talk about it

00:29:55 ◼   ► yeah and so I was like oh shit okay you

00:29:59 ◼   ► know lay it on me

00:30:02 ◼   ► and so she just started just going down

00:30:05 ◼   ► the list of all the things that ever

00:30:07 ◼   ► since she turned seven had gone sideways

00:30:12 ◼   ► and you know I listen and I was like ah

00:30:17 ◼   ► boy there's really like everything here

00:30:21 ◼   ► is just norm

00:30:22 ◼   ► well it's the kind of like stuff it's

00:30:24 ◼   ► the normal stuff that makes you realize

00:30:29 ◼   ► that being alive is hard but we're gonna

00:30:31 ◼   ► run long enough to know that that's

00:30:33 ◼   ► normal and she's as a fresh that's a

00:30:36 ◼   ► fresh hell for her yeah she's like no

00:30:38 ◼   ► one would play with me on the playground

00:30:40 ◼   ► and I'm like yeah well but I don't want

00:30:44 ◼   ► to say that's normal

00:30:46 ◼   ► mm-hmm I don't want to say that's weird

00:30:50 ◼   ► because all those things establish some

00:30:53 ◼   ► kind of I don't know like some kind of

00:30:56 ◼   ► relationship between us I guess is what

00:30:59 ◼   ► it establishes where if I if I say

00:31:02 ◼   ► everything is normal then she starts to

00:31:04 ◼   ► feel like well why are we talking then

00:31:08 ◼   ► if it's all normal like leave me alone

00:31:10 ◼   ► and if I you know if I get too much down

00:31:13 ◼   ► into the seven-year-old weeds of saying

00:31:16 ◼   ► like oh baby oh you know like

00:31:20 ◼   ► emotionally over identifying with her

00:31:22 ◼   ► then what I'm what good am I

00:31:25 ◼   ► you know I'm just like I'm just another

00:31:29 ◼   ► seven year old having the same

00:31:31 ◼   ► experiences so anyway I didn't do

00:31:34 ◼   ► anything I just listened to her and and

00:31:38 ◼   ► oddly I mean I guess not oddly because

00:31:40 ◼   ► this wasn't a scheme right this wasn't

00:31:42 ◼   ► something I read in a book I was just at

00:31:44 ◼   ► a loss of what to say but now she talks

00:31:49 ◼   ► to me in a way that she doesn't talk to

00:31:51 ◼   ► the other - Wow about and she and it's

00:31:56 ◼   ► not like she comes home and is like oh

00:31:57 ◼   ► what a hard day at school like she has

00:31:59 ◼   ► to still I hope you're aware that that's

00:32:01 ◼   ► not necessarily normal I mean that's

00:32:03 ◼   ► good it's very good that's that's hard

00:32:04 ◼   ► to wangle in my experience in the

00:32:08 ◼   ► experience of other people I talked to

00:32:09 ◼   ► yeah and so I'm just and so what I

00:32:12 ◼   ► haven't because there's a grave

00:32:13 ◼   ► responsibility for you though huh

00:32:14 ◼   ► it is and and and it's it's very

00:32:17 ◼   ► difficult for somebody like me to not

00:32:19 ◼   ► try to solve problems yep and so I just

00:32:23 ◼   ► sit and I'm like wow I find that to be

00:32:25 ◼   ► true for about 49% of the population

00:32:26 ◼   ► right kind of an mo yeah but you know

00:32:34 ◼   ► it's in my family it's the opposite

00:32:35 ◼   ► right my mom

00:32:36 ◼   ► cannot cannot listen to you talk without

00:32:39 ◼   ► trying to solve your problem and she's

00:32:41 ◼   ► just like right let me let me solve the

00:32:44 ◼   ► problem if you're like uh I kind of just

00:32:46 ◼   ► venting she's like well fucking go

00:32:48 ◼   ► outside then right we talked about this

00:32:50 ◼   ► with her and her Susan yeah and the

00:32:52 ◼   ► history you know she's like that with

00:32:54 ◼   ► everybody but but it so in this case but

00:32:57 ◼   ► you know I'm not like trying to solve it

00:32:58 ◼   ► for her I'm just like oh let me give you

00:33:00 ◼   ► some guidance right but I but I'm not

00:33:03 ◼   ► doing that I'm just like and part of it

00:33:06 ◼   ► is is really founded in total confusion

00:33:08 ◼   ► about what anyone would say like what do

00:33:11 ◼   ► you say to a seven-year-old girl who's

00:33:13 ◼   ► best friends are playing with each other

00:33:15 ◼   ► and don't want her play well there's to

00:33:17 ◼   ► me there's like in that instance there's

00:33:19 ◼   ► so many conflicting things I think I can

00:33:20 ◼   ► say this without being too personal but

00:33:22 ◼   ► like I feel like there's so many

00:33:23 ◼   ► conflicting things in a moment like that

00:33:25 ◼   ► where when I do get the rare chance to

00:33:26 ◼   ► actually talk about like you know just

00:33:29 ◼   ► something's not right whatever that is

00:33:31 ◼   ► and we get to talk about it on the one

00:33:33 ◼   ► hand yeah sure

00:33:35 ◼   ► there's this there's this part of me

00:33:37 ◼   ► that wants to help but I also feel like

00:33:39 ◼   ► a thousand admonishments against myself

00:33:41 ◼   ► like don't do this don't do that don't

00:33:44 ◼   ► do that among amongst these don't try

00:33:48 ◼   ► well maybe at the top of the list don't

00:33:50 ◼   ► try to talk someone out of how they feel

00:33:52 ◼   ► right now it's it's really not that much

00:33:54 ◼   ► better than telling somebody who is

00:33:56 ◼   ► grieving to buck up wide span well like

00:34:01 ◼   ► you know I mean grieving and depression

00:34:03 ◼   ► to things that are not helped by

00:34:04 ◼   ► somebody telling you you feel better

00:34:06 ◼   ► like don't do that but then on the other

00:34:08 ◼   ► hand with a kid you don't want as you

00:34:10 ◼   ► say like over just stick you late about

00:34:13 ◼   ► it because that's weird what you don't

00:34:15 ◼   ► do that about that many things like why

00:34:17 ◼   ► are you so like emotional and like raw

00:34:19 ◼   ► about this like what are you hiding you

00:34:22 ◼   ► don't want to say it's not real and then

00:34:23 ◼   ► the deeper level I feel like I don't

00:34:25 ◼   ► want to find myself explaining why this

00:34:27 ◼   ► is and that is when I fall on sometimes

00:34:30 ◼   ► where I find myself saying something

00:34:31 ◼   ► like you know sometimes people are

00:34:34 ◼   ► really terrible to each other and we

00:34:35 ◼   ► don't always know why but that's I don't

00:34:37 ◼   ► want to do that either you know yeah the

00:34:39 ◼   ► listening part is valuable but like it's

00:34:42 ◼   ► it's it and then so the one though the

00:34:46 ◼   ► one that kind of guides all of this is

00:34:48 ◼   ► like

00:34:49 ◼   ► and I have to I just because to be

00:34:50 ◼   ► straight up about this like I don't want

00:34:52 ◼   ► to fail as a father there's a part of me

00:34:54 ◼   ► that goes like I should

00:34:55 ◼   ► I've seen enough TV to know there should

00:34:58 ◼   ► be something that I can do say not say

00:35:01 ◼   ► or not do there's something that there

00:35:03 ◼   ► is a better answer in this situation and

00:35:06 ◼   ► I'll tear myself apart if I don't get

00:35:08 ◼   ► that right well and so I think I think

00:35:11 ◼   ► overall the dynamic that I'm trying to

00:35:14 ◼   ► establish is look your mother is

00:35:16 ◼   ► extremely competent and does and has

00:35:21 ◼   ► business life like she gets up in the

00:35:24 ◼   ► morning and she dresses business and she

00:35:26 ◼   ► goes and she manages people and she

00:35:28 ◼   ► flies on business trips and is is very

00:35:33 ◼   ► competent in the world and we all know

00:35:35 ◼   ► that Nana is very competent if you gave

00:35:37 ◼   ► Nana a like a case of Lacroix and a

00:35:42 ◼   ► Swiss Army knife she could build a

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00:37:42 ◼   ► line and all the great shows these are

00:37:47 ◼   ► not the people that we are measuring

00:37:49 ◼   ► daddy's success against we are measuring

00:37:52 ◼   ► daddy's success against a different

00:37:54 ◼   ► criteria which is a are we on fire no

00:37:58 ◼   ► good we're doing good then we're not on

00:38:01 ◼   ► fire is Daddy on fire

00:38:03 ◼   ► no he's not on fire good look like we're

00:38:07 ◼   ► doing good but what that's done I think

00:38:10 ◼   ► with her is to feel like daddy needs

00:38:13 ◼   ► some help from her and some in a way

00:38:18 ◼   ► some protection from her

00:38:21 ◼   ► that's not protection where you know

00:38:23 ◼   ► daddy is an invalid or incompetent or

00:38:26 ◼   ► anything but just like hey yo come here

00:38:29 ◼   ► I need your help on this mm-hmm and so

00:38:32 ◼   ► she feels me what what the with the

00:38:35 ◼   ► conversation that we had in the chicken

00:38:37 ◼   ► restaurant revealed over time was that

00:38:41 ◼   ► she was seven now and she just felt

00:38:44 ◼   ► everybody was dumping on her all the

00:38:46 ◼   ► time she was she just wasn't you know

00:38:50 ◼   ► she was getting a bunch of like praise

00:38:51 ◼   ► cannon stuff that everybody throws at a

00:38:53 ◼   ► kid but she was just in the in the main

00:38:57 ◼   ► she was doing it wrong Nana was mad at

00:38:59 ◼   ► her in the morning because she didn't

00:39:01 ◼   ► get ready fast enough and mama was mad

00:39:03 ◼   ► at her at night because she didn't get

00:39:04 ◼   ► to bed fast enough and everything it was

00:39:06 ◼   ► all she's doing like she's doing it

00:39:08 ◼   ► wrong

00:39:09 ◼   ► and I said oh well what if we got you a

00:39:14 ◼   ► and taught you how to use a clock and

00:39:17 ◼   ► then you could know when it was time for

00:39:21 ◼   ► you to get up and time for you to go to

00:39:24 ◼   ► bed and she was like I would like a

00:39:26 ◼   ► clock and I said okay we'll get you a

00:39:28 ◼   ► clock but once you have a clock you are

00:39:32 ◼   ► responsible for the time you don't get

00:39:35 ◼   ► to have a clock and just have it be like

00:39:38 ◼   ► a like a lighting effect well you're

00:39:41 ◼   ► you're not allowed to use it to improve

00:39:43 ◼   ► your procrastination right yeah don't

00:39:47 ◼   ► wait until the last minute

00:39:48 ◼   ► I still got a minute before we leave you

00:39:49 ◼   ► have it you're naked that's not okay and

00:39:52 ◼   ► and and part of our long conversation

00:39:55 ◼   ► was just like oh you want more

00:39:58 ◼   ► responsibility and it's just innate you

00:40:02 ◼   ► don't know how to ask for that that's

00:40:04 ◼   ► that's not it's just you're at that

00:40:06 ◼   ► point in your life where you're like why

00:40:08 ◼   ► am I still why does my life look like me

00:40:10 ◼   ► just getting nagged from place to place

00:40:13 ◼   ► with all this stuff I know how to do

00:40:15 ◼   ► it's not a challenge anymore I just

00:40:16 ◼   ► don't feel like it and it's like oh well

00:40:20 ◼   ► then what you need to do is set the

00:40:21 ◼   ► table and empty the dishwasher and also

00:40:25 ◼   ► sometimes oh so so oh this is the

00:40:29 ◼   ► amazing one she said to me I wish I

00:40:34 ◼   ► lived in a family where I never got

00:40:36 ◼   ► teased and that was a that was like

00:40:40 ◼   ► handing me a lit stick of dynamite

00:40:42 ◼   ► because nobody else teases her I yeah

00:40:46 ◼   ► okay yeah that was for me right like

00:40:49 ◼   ► like like things like bastok things like

00:40:51 ◼   ► yeah we've got I think I suspect every

00:40:54 ◼   ► family has these things that the kid

00:40:56 ◼   ► used to say in a funny way and now you

00:40:57 ◼   ► still say it and it just sounds like

00:40:59 ◼   ► you're making fun of them thing that

00:41:02 ◼   ► kind of thing where she would say like

00:41:04 ◼   ► you know what I went for dinner and I

00:41:06 ◼   ► would say a bastok of pinedo she

00:41:10 ◼   ► combines that right and over time she's

00:41:12 ◼   ► just been just infuriated her and so she

00:41:14 ◼   ► said I don't you know I would rather

00:41:16 ◼   ► live in a family where I didn't get

00:41:17 ◼   ► teased and I said wouldn't you really

00:41:19 ◼   ► rather live in a family where you only

00:41:21 ◼   ► got teased a little bit

00:41:24 ◼   ► and she said no I would rather not get

00:41:27 ◼   ► teased at all hmm and I said and I'm

00:41:30 ◼   ► still exhausted as they say a big ask

00:41:32 ◼   ► yeah and I'm sitting I'm scrambling in

00:41:33 ◼   ► my head like what the fuck am I supposed

00:41:35 ◼   ► to do that's the only way they know how

00:41:36 ◼   ► to interact with people and I said

00:41:38 ◼   ► wouldn't what would you rather live in a

00:41:41 ◼   ► family where you had to eat vegetables

00:41:43 ◼   ► at every meal or live in a family where

00:41:45 ◼   ► you got teased every once in a while

00:41:47 ◼   ► really scrambling that's what I was but

00:41:49 ◼   ► she made an enormous blunder she said I

00:41:54 ◼   ► would rather live in a family where I

00:41:55 ◼   ► had to eat vegetables in every meal I

00:41:57 ◼   ► test out well it was and I said oh all

00:42:02 ◼   ► right well starting tonight if you eat a

00:42:06 ◼   ► salad I won't tease you and she did not

00:42:12 ◼   ► give a look of having been checkmated

00:42:14 ◼   ► she gave a look of like huh and she said

00:42:21 ◼   ► deal like oh this is not layin well well

00:42:26 ◼   ► like 20 like Clint Eastwood style

00:42:29 ◼   ► bring it on a deal and so at dinner and

00:42:33 ◼   ► I'm not crazy it's not like I put a big

00:42:35 ◼   ► fucking salad bowl with tongs and didn't

00:42:38 ◼   ► spray Brussels sprouts I know I just I

00:42:41 ◼   ► put a little portion of vegetable on her

00:42:44 ◼   ► plate and she she made it seem like she

00:42:48 ◼   ► was Indiana Jones and every bite of this

00:42:51 ◼   ► stuff you know was snakes and she said

00:42:55 ◼   ► that she ate her snakes and I didn't you

00:43:00 ◼   ► know I didn't jump on her about like

00:43:01 ◼   ► don't make those faces you can't make

00:43:03 ◼   ► faces I was just like make as many faces

00:43:07 ◼   ► as you want but but right on the other

00:43:10 ◼   ► sizes were not part of the deal that's

00:43:12 ◼   ► right that's right faces we're not part

00:43:14 ◼   ► of the deal I didn't say I had to like

00:43:15 ◼   ► it I didn't say you had to be nice about

00:43:17 ◼   ► but I said right on the other side of

00:43:20 ◼   ► that bowl of vegetables is you getting

00:43:22 ◼   ► told bastok of potatoes so let's decide

00:43:26 ◼   ► which is more important and she ate the

00:43:28 ◼   ► freaking things and every day from that

00:43:32 ◼   ► day forth she has eaten vegetables are

00:43:36 ◼   ► you gonna stick with this

00:43:37 ◼   ► well the few times I have said something

00:43:41 ◼   ► even vaguely teasing she has turned six

00:43:45 ◼   ► guns drawn and said we had a deal

00:43:50 ◼   ► oh and you know and at wit with the

00:43:55 ◼   ► unspoken second half of that sentence

00:43:57 ◼   ► and I'm living up to my hand in the deal

00:43:58 ◼   ► mm-hm and she is mm-hmm

00:44:01 ◼   ► so so I'm just like out drawn hmm I just

00:44:06 ◼   ► have to holster my pistols and I just to

00:44:08 ◼   ► be clear this started as a like okay

00:44:10 ◼   ► well let's see how far you're gonna go

00:44:11 ◼   ► with this you're not actually saying

00:44:12 ◼   ► like for you to be emotionally healthy

00:44:14 ◼   ► UFT vegetables this is more of like a

00:44:16 ◼   ► thought experiment well it was it was

00:44:19 ◼   ► all part and parcel of the okay you're

00:44:21 ◼   ► seven now and you want everybody off

00:44:23 ◼   ► your back well then all that means is

00:44:29 ◼   ► you get more responsibility because

00:44:31 ◼   ► that's how you get people off your back

00:44:32 ◼   ► mmm and so there's no you don't just get

00:44:35 ◼   ► like to be five again where you get to

00:44:39 ◼   ► do whatever you want everybody runs

00:44:40 ◼   ► around and picks up after you right

00:44:42 ◼   ► right right

00:44:42 ◼   ► like everybody's mad because you're not

00:44:44 ◼   ► you're not and I realized that people

00:44:46 ◼   ► that that the people in the family had

00:44:48 ◼   ► this expectation that she was supposed

00:44:50 ◼   ► to be getting better at stuff and from

00:44:53 ◼   ► her standpoint it was like I can do all

00:44:55 ◼   ► that I've showed you I can do it why do

00:44:56 ◼   ► I have to do it every day and it's like

00:44:59 ◼   ► oh well you don't get it like yeah you

00:45:01 ◼   ► do actually do it every day but but you

00:45:03 ◼   ► should get rewards for it too and in her

00:45:06 ◼   ► case and I had no idea the things I

00:45:09 ◼   ► don't understand the relationship the

00:45:12 ◼   ► teasing plays in other people's lives

00:45:14 ◼   ► because I was relentlessly teased by my

00:45:19 ◼   ► dad and it was a thing that we bonded

00:45:23 ◼   ► over you know like I didn't like to be

00:45:25 ◼   ► tickled but I'd love to be teased and

00:45:29 ◼   ► you know I loved going down to the magic

00:45:32 ◼   ► shop in in Pike Place Market and

00:45:35 ◼   ► somebody giving me a piece of gum and it

00:45:37 ◼   ► had a fucking mousetrap on it like just

00:45:39 ◼   ► love that stuff dirty tricks and stuff

00:45:42 ◼   ► you know and she doesn't it's not like

00:45:46 ◼   ► like her reaction to that stuff is just

00:45:48 ◼   ► she's indignant

00:45:50 ◼   ► I think it's more

00:45:51 ◼   ► dignity issue where she's just like

00:45:54 ◼   ► listen bastok of Panay toes sir this is

00:45:58 ◼   ► beneath our discourse I'm like well you

00:46:02 ◼   ► know what's beneath your discourse is up

00:46:04 ◼   ► a stack of the data and for for her to

00:46:08 ◼   ► for her to decide of all the things that

00:46:10 ◼   ► she gets to that she could have laid out

00:46:12 ◼   ► as her a certain negotiating chit that

00:46:16 ◼   ► that was the thing not get teased

00:46:19 ◼   ► mmm-hmm she didn't say stop tickling me

00:46:22 ◼   ► she's like tickle me tickle me but don't

00:46:24 ◼   ► tease me mm-hmm oh shit all right man

00:46:27 ◼   ► you set the tone you put the forks

00:46:29 ◼   ► together in the fork thing I also feel

00:46:33 ◼   ► like I got to two things I'm thinking

00:46:35 ◼   ► about here um which is easier than the

00:46:39 ◼   ► other um one thing I struggle with is

00:46:41 ◼   ► that I was an only child

00:46:45 ◼   ► well you know that's not even that

00:46:47 ◼   ► important what's important is that I am

00:46:48 ◼   ► from gen-x I think it is important

00:46:51 ◼   ► though but go ahead no no no it is

00:46:52 ◼   ► important but probably for different

00:46:54 ◼   ► things but here's one thing is that I

00:46:57 ◼   ► struggle with what I perceived sometimes

00:46:59 ◼   ► as two poles of raising a female child

00:47:03 ◼   ► which is on the one hand is the one

00:47:05 ◼   ► thing you're supposed to always do as a

00:47:06 ◼   ► parent which is to like be consistent

00:47:08 ◼   ► and have certain standards and and be

00:47:10 ◼   ► consistent about those standards and all

00:47:12 ◼   ► that kind of stuff and also not not

00:47:13 ◼   ► discourage your kid from doing things

00:47:15 ◼   ► that are difficult don't be afraid to

00:47:16 ◼   ► you know correct them all the kinds of

00:47:18 ◼   ► like old school ideas of what we know

00:47:20 ◼   ► you're supposed to do as a parent but

00:47:22 ◼   ► then there's the other part of me that

00:47:23 ◼   ► feels like I'm I'm always walking a

00:47:26 ◼   ► minefield that I choose to walk because

00:47:29 ◼   ► the idea of having a little kid even at

00:47:33 ◼   ► her age who is confident and not like

00:47:37 ◼   ► torn this and this by the way this is

00:47:38 ◼   ► not relating to the potatoes I just mean

00:47:40 ◼   ► I mean more like even with math homework

00:47:43 ◼   ► where I'm like man if she can get

00:47:44 ◼   ► through the math and like do I want to

00:47:46 ◼   ► really make her go back and rewrite that

00:47:48 ◼   ► because that nine doesn't look enough

00:47:49 ◼   ► like a nine yeah probably but the idea

00:47:51 ◼   ► of somebody who can remain boy or a girl

00:47:54 ◼   ► but especially girl who's confident and

00:47:56 ◼   ► not self-conscious about their body and

00:47:58 ◼   ► their personality and stuff like that is

00:48:00 ◼   ► something I really I have in mind so I

00:48:04 ◼   ► think sometimes iin

00:48:05 ◼   ► being too permissive because I'm not

00:48:09 ◼   ► strong enough to walk that minefield

00:48:13 ◼   ► some days did you know what I mean we're

00:48:15 ◼   ► like it's just with something we're like

00:48:17 ◼   ► I just think about I'll just lay it on

00:48:19 ◼   ► the line just think about how normal it

00:48:21 ◼   ► was when I was a teenager for girls to

00:48:24 ◼   ► be a hot mess and to be kind of

00:48:28 ◼   ► personally and systematically kept frail

00:48:31 ◼   ► and to constantly wonder how broken they

00:48:34 ◼   ► are and so like that's I sometimes feel

00:48:37 ◼   ► like I wonder if I weigh too heavily on

00:48:39 ◼   ► that angle of like wanting her to be

00:48:41 ◼   ► confident what I really should go back

00:48:42 ◼   ► am I gonna pierce that confidence by

00:48:44 ◼   ► saying like let's go back and check your

00:48:46 ◼   ► math on that well it shouldnt cuz that's

00:48:47 ◼   ► part of being strong part of being

00:48:48 ◼   ► strong is being able to improve and

00:48:50 ◼   ► stuff like that but that's one of the

00:48:51 ◼   ► tight ropes I feel like I walk and when

00:48:53 ◼   ► it comes down to dad alone for three

00:48:55 ◼   ► days there's all kinds of ways that that

00:48:57 ◼   ► can go sideways yeah well I had a as

00:49:01 ◼   ► part of this interesting conversation

00:49:04 ◼   ► dynamic that she and I have developed I

00:49:06 ◼   ► had a very interesting exchange the

00:49:07 ◼   ► other day where she said and again she's

00:49:10 ◼   ► very dramatic and that's not anything

00:49:16 ◼   ► she was taught although she it's

00:49:19 ◼   ► certainly reinforced but she said I'm

00:49:23 ◼   ► worried that every time I smile it makes

00:49:27 ◼   ► something bad happen whoa and I said

00:49:31 ◼   ► whoa that's telling your wheelhouse yeah

00:49:34 ◼   ► I said tell me more and we're riding

00:49:37 ◼   ► bikes so it's a type thing where we're

00:49:39 ◼   ► not it's not like we're sitting in a

00:49:40 ◼   ► chicken restaurant looking at each other

00:49:41 ◼   ► we're just riding bikes slowly riding

00:49:44 ◼   ► down the down the road and she says well

00:49:46 ◼   ► like I say every time something good

00:49:49 ◼   ► happens something bad immediately

00:49:50 ◼   ► happens mm-hmm so that makes me not want

00:49:53 ◼   ► to smile Wow and I said we'll give me an

00:49:57 ◼   ► example and she said well after recess

00:50:05 ◼   ► you have to go back inside and go back

00:50:09 ◼   ► to work and so we're all really happy at

00:50:13 ◼   ► recess but nobody wants to go back

00:50:14 ◼   ► inside sir

00:50:15 ◼   ► and I was like makes sense give me

00:50:17 ◼   ► another example and she said well after

00:50:21 ◼   ► snack which is the best part of school

00:50:25 ◼   ► we have math and I was like I and my Gen

00:50:31 ◼   ► X like girls and math tingle pairs went

00:50:36 ◼   ► up and I said yeah and what's what's uh

00:50:42 ◼   ► what's up with math and she said well

00:50:45 ◼   ► math is fine but all the boys complain

00:50:48 ◼   ► and they're like in math mmm and she

00:50:54 ◼   ► said I hate when people are unhappy oh

00:50:58 ◼   ► wow

00:50:59 ◼   ► and I just want everybody to be happy

00:51:02 ◼   ► and everybody's complaining about math

00:51:05 ◼   ► and it's a bummer Lizzie and I was like

00:51:07 ◼   ► uh-huh well now like my Gen X desire to

00:51:15 ◼   ► socially engineer you to make you into

00:51:17 ◼   ► superwoman stem girl that's right and to

00:51:22 ◼   ► correct for every aspect of the

00:51:24 ◼   ► patriarchy in you alone my daughter who

00:51:27 ◼   ► is gonna you know just like grow up

00:51:29 ◼   ► eating Cheerios except it's

00:51:31 ◼   ► multiplication tables I don't I I just

00:51:35 ◼   ► listened an extra step there because if

00:51:38 ◼   ► if I had done what I what my impulse was

00:51:41 ◼   ► or what my generations impulse was when

00:51:45 ◼   ► she said yeah after snack it's math and

00:51:48 ◼   ► I had gone oh well math is amazing like

00:51:52 ◼   ► don't hate math math is great what's the

00:51:54 ◼   ► matter math mmm-hmm with the tone you

00:51:58 ◼   ► probably unintentionally always use to

00:52:00 ◼   ► try to talk her into something that she

00:52:01 ◼   ► now instantly realizes is some kind of

00:52:03 ◼   ► jam up yeah right right you do this real

00:52:06 ◼   ► that's the tone that you unintentionally

00:52:07 ◼   ► oh come on this hike is gonna be fun is

00:52:12 ◼   ► your friend and so I stayed out a bit

00:52:15 ◼   ► for that one extra step because I was

00:52:18 ◼   ► like huh she doesn't have any problem

00:52:20 ◼   ► with math so I'm not gonna jump in here

00:52:24 ◼   ► you know like what's she gonna say next

00:52:26 ◼   ► is basically my take on it because

00:52:28 ◼   ► also not really about math it's about

00:52:30 ◼   ► the other people's feelings yeah and

00:52:32 ◼   ► it's about the fact that all the little

00:52:34 ◼   ► boys are making a bunch of noise about

00:52:36 ◼   ► having to do math and she's like why

00:52:38 ◼   ► don't they just do their math but she

00:52:45 ◼   ► also like is exhibiting there a kind of

00:52:51 ◼   ► like emotional receptiveness that is

00:52:54 ◼   ► both lovely and also totally dangerous

00:52:56 ◼   ► like she's oh yeah I see I see that I

00:52:59 ◼   ► feel like I see that all the time yeah

00:53:01 ◼   ► she's onboarding everybody else's

00:53:03 ◼   ► feelings as part of her world of

00:53:04 ◼   ► responsibility mm-hm

00:53:06 ◼   ► she feels bad because everybody else

00:53:08 ◼   ► feels bad and that actually is she

00:53:11 ◼   ► doesn't feel bad she's end up doing what

00:53:14 ◼   ► people call like unpaid emotional labor

00:53:20 ◼   ► you know and so I just so then we just

00:53:24 ◼   ► we just pedal along in silence while we

00:53:26 ◼   ► both chew on that mm-hmm

00:53:28 ◼   ► and but but it was a it was another

00:53:32 ◼   ► example I think of this like tendency

00:53:36 ◼   ► that I'm trying to resist which is that

00:53:41 ◼   ► that tendency to to social engineer in

00:53:46 ◼   ► any direction even the opposite

00:53:49 ◼   ► direction of what we think we were

00:53:51 ◼   ► socially engineered to do because

00:53:52 ◼   ► because every time you change one little

00:53:56 ◼   ► thing you change a cascading series of B

00:54:00 ◼   ► of this like yes initely repeating

00:54:04 ◼   ► unpredictable you can't change one was

00:54:06 ◼   ► engine you can't change the one thing

00:54:08 ◼   ► about anything and I don't have any I

00:54:10 ◼   ► don't have any fear that my daughter is

00:54:14 ◼   ► going to be fragile it's not currently a

00:54:19 ◼   ► danger and I mean did I tell you maybe

00:54:21 ◼   ► we didn't talk about about when when she

00:54:23 ◼   ► was in preschool we went to the locks

00:54:27 ◼   ► here in Seattle and you and I have been

00:54:28 ◼   ► visited the locks with her family yeah

00:54:30 ◼   ► it's a dynamic environment boats are

00:54:34 ◼   ► coming and going the locks are run a

00:54:37 ◼   ► chance to get a tour of Seattle from

00:54:38 ◼   ► John take it it's long they say about

00:54:40 ◼   ► that Hey

00:54:41 ◼   ► sign up sign up on this clipboard but

00:54:45 ◼   ► the locks are run by the US Army Corps

00:54:47 ◼   ► of Engineers and they take that job

00:54:53 ◼   ► pretty seriously and they have you know

00:54:57 ◼   ► like big burly people on either side who

00:55:01 ◼   ► are yelling at people in the boats that

00:55:02 ◼   ► they're doing it wrong and every it's

00:55:05 ◼   ► very you know that's it's a big

00:55:06 ◼   ► operation it's an industrial scale

00:55:09 ◼   ► operation well we were there with the

00:55:11 ◼   ► preschool and there are you know there

00:55:14 ◼   ► were 23 year olds all running around and

00:55:18 ◼   ► the teacher was the sort of barely

00:55:21 ◼   ► keeping them together and I was one of

00:55:22 ◼   ► the parents who were along for the ride

00:55:26 ◼   ► and Marla maybe she was 4 she's standing

00:55:31 ◼   ► there on the edge of the blocks and

00:55:33 ◼   ► there are hundreds of tourists there to

00:55:35 ◼   ► all claming it up at Marlo at the top of

00:55:37 ◼   ► her lungs was saying you go over here

00:55:42 ◼   ► and you stand there and you hear and the

00:55:46 ◼   ► teacher teacher you need to over this

00:55:49 ◼   ► and balidaan she's yelling it like just

00:55:51 ◼   ► passers by you that shirt doesn't match

00:55:55 ◼   ► those pants and and I said she's the

00:56:03 ◼   ► mistress of the locks

00:56:04 ◼   ► she was just appointed herself and I

00:56:07 ◼   ► said at a certain point sweetie you need

00:56:10 ◼   ► to just cold check your mega bossing of

00:56:15 ◼   ► everyone for just a second while we

00:56:17 ◼   ► figure out how we're all gonna get

00:56:20 ◼   ► through this small aperture and a very

00:56:24 ◼   ► big man with a beard and a hat that said

00:56:29 ◼   ► US Army Corps of Engineers who was

00:56:32 ◼   ► standing there in the process of yelling

00:56:34 ◼   ► at a shipping you know like a that no no

00:56:40 ◼   ► NOAA icebreaker turns around on his heel

00:56:44 ◼   ► looks at me and says we don't say

00:56:46 ◼   ► bossing to young women

00:56:51 ◼   ► nowadays we say we encourage them for

00:56:54 ◼   ► their

00:56:55 ◼   ► but you know like autonomy or

00:56:58 ◼   ► authoritative necessarily you have

00:56:59 ◼   ► something something something he gave me

00:57:01 ◼   ► some lecture out of a playbook and

00:57:02 ◼   ► turned around and went back to his job

00:57:04 ◼   ► and I'm not anymore somebody who's just

00:57:08 ◼   ► out doling out lessons to everybody on

00:57:10 ◼   ► the street I'm trying not to be because

00:57:13 ◼   ► I find that's not very effective I found

00:57:15 ◼   ► from being on Twitter for a long time

00:57:17 ◼   ► that just being out there sheriffing

00:57:19 ◼   ► everybody is not any fun right right

00:57:21 ◼   ► right and it doesn't and nobody gets

00:57:23 ◼   ► better

00:57:25 ◼   ► nobody improves it's like yeah part of

00:57:28 ◼   ► the the international tone police yeah

00:57:30 ◼   ► but this guy and I don't know whether he

00:57:33 ◼   ► has kids or not yeah he might I read

00:57:35 ◼   ► that in The New Yorker

00:57:36 ◼   ► my sense is he didn't but he's a he's a

00:57:39 ◼   ► liberal but he's working at the US Army

00:57:41 ◼   ► Corps of Engineers and he's out there

00:57:43 ◼   ► sheriffing and what he you know what he

00:57:47 ◼   ► is doing is trying to make the world a

00:57:50 ◼   ► better place but he doesn't know my

00:57:57 ◼   ► daughter and he doesn't know that she's

00:57:58 ◼   ► a fucking bossy little Nazi like that

00:58:02 ◼   ► she would literally run the world if she

00:58:06 ◼   ► could from her three-year-old brain from

00:58:09 ◼   ► her three-year-old understanding of how

00:58:11 ◼   ► things need to be ordered and just to

00:58:12 ◼   ► clarify here if there were an equivalent

00:58:15 ◼   ► equivalently aged male you would have

00:58:20 ◼   ► said the same thing well absolutely but

00:58:22 ◼   ► here's the thing and this is the one

00:58:24 ◼   ► where you know like don't at me but

00:58:27 ◼   ► anybody who has kids and who spends any

00:58:29 ◼   ► time around kids knows those little boys

00:58:31 ◼   ► just don't do that like I'm sorry to say

00:58:34 ◼   ► but little boys do not go bossing

00:58:37 ◼   ► everybody around like that they know

00:58:40 ◼   ► they're hitting each other that's true

00:58:41 ◼   ► and they're hitting everybody else

00:58:43 ◼   ► they're bonking and they're screaming

00:58:45 ◼   ► and they're running and they're hitting

00:58:46 ◼   ► they are not standing there saying you

00:58:49 ◼   ► are here and you are the mama and you

00:58:51 ◼   ► are the one who is you are the Corps of

00:58:53 ◼   ► Engineers guy and here are your jobs and

00:58:55 ◼   ► here is where you stand

00:58:56 ◼   ► it just isn't it's just it is a thing

00:58:59 ◼   ► that's different between them and and my

00:59:04 ◼   ► daughter is the queen of it like the

00:59:07 ◼   ► ultimate or

00:59:08 ◼   ► of things and of people and of I mean

00:59:11 ◼   ► you know it all is she has it she has

00:59:14 ◼   ► the plan she she sees the the matrix and

00:59:19 ◼   ► so so so that's what this guy was saying

00:59:22 ◼   ► right if that was a little boy you

00:59:24 ◼   ► wouldn't have said that but a little boy

00:59:25 ◼   ► would not have ever done it this is not

00:59:27 ◼   ► a little boy trait and also you know but

00:59:32 ◼   ► I didn't say like hey mind your own

00:59:33 ◼   ► beeswax or I didn't decide it was gonna

00:59:35 ◼   ► be a show do you got a beer to play cool

00:59:37 ◼   ► no I was just like huh yeah thank you

00:59:40 ◼   ► for your service

00:59:41 ◼   ► yeah thanks for your service exactly

00:59:43 ◼   ► anyway meanwhile Marlowe in an empowered

00:59:47 ◼   ► fashion will you shut the fuck up for

00:59:50 ◼   ► like three minutes while we get through

00:59:53 ◼   ► this door but as you know as time goes

00:59:57 ◼   ► on like looking at the looking at the

00:59:59 ◼   ► kids and though